1 00:00:03,359 --> 00:00:06,480 Welcome to episode 410 of the Microsoft Cloud 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,500 IT Pro podcast recorded live on 09/08/2025. 3 00:00:10,719 --> 00:00:12,880 This is a show about Microsoft '3 60 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:14,925 '5 and Azure from the perspective of IT 5 00:00:14,925 --> 00:00:17,085 pros and end users, where we discuss the 6 00:00:17,085 --> 00:00:19,164 topic or recent news and how it relates 7 00:00:19,164 --> 00:00:21,964 to you. In this episode, I somehow lose 8 00:00:21,964 --> 00:00:22,864 complete control 9 00:00:23,164 --> 00:00:25,425 as I become the guest of our podcast 10 00:00:25,564 --> 00:00:27,804 and Joy and Jay become the hosts. The 11 00:00:27,804 --> 00:00:30,059 three of us discuss the changing role of 12 00:00:30,219 --> 00:00:32,780 IT within Microsoft March 13 00:00:32,780 --> 00:00:35,179 and how IT should be thinking about change 14 00:00:35,179 --> 00:00:35,679 management 15 00:00:36,059 --> 00:00:38,379 as the shift from on premises to cloud 16 00:00:38,379 --> 00:00:40,239 continues across many organizations. 17 00:00:42,619 --> 00:00:44,799 Welcome to the MSIT Pro podcast 18 00:00:45,414 --> 00:00:47,255 with Jay Leesk and Joy Apple and our 19 00:00:47,255 --> 00:00:49,734 special guest. Ben Stutching. Ben, thank you so 20 00:00:49,734 --> 00:00:52,134 much. If people wanna see what The behind 21 00:00:52,134 --> 00:00:54,314 the scenes. Behind the scenes of this disaster, 22 00:00:54,614 --> 00:00:57,094 they can. Yeah. But, anyways, Jay, you and 23 00:00:57,094 --> 00:00:58,774 I did a session this week on zero 24 00:00:58,774 --> 00:00:59,189 trust. 25 00:01:00,070 --> 00:01:02,309 Right. So for those of you wondering where 26 00:01:02,390 --> 00:01:04,709 why we're in Branson, we're at the North 27 00:01:04,709 --> 00:01:07,750 American Cloud and Collaboration Summit, formerly known as 28 00:01:07,750 --> 00:01:10,310 the North American Collaboration Summit, which I guess 29 00:01:10,310 --> 00:01:12,489 Mark said something about this being its sixteenth 30 00:01:12,549 --> 00:01:14,994 year Yes. Which is wild. It is. When 31 00:01:14,994 --> 00:01:16,614 it launched, it was SharePoint Alooza. 32 00:01:16,915 --> 00:01:18,454 Oh, that's right. I remember 33 00:01:18,754 --> 00:01:21,715 that. I Yeah. SharePoint Alooza. New? No. It 34 00:01:21,715 --> 00:01:23,314 was I do remember the m three six 35 00:01:23,314 --> 00:01:25,655 five days. Wow. So it was a SharePoint 36 00:01:25,795 --> 00:01:27,894 collaboration What? It's 2025. 37 00:01:28,034 --> 00:01:28,534 SharePoint 38 00:01:29,075 --> 00:01:30,489 well, it was b pause then, not Office 39 00:01:30,489 --> 00:01:31,609 March. 40 00:01:31,609 --> 00:01:34,409 Right. Was what? Probably, like, twelve or thirteen 41 00:01:34,409 --> 00:01:36,890 years ago? Yeah. So it was three. This 42 00:01:36,890 --> 00:01:39,530 was yeah. SharePoint, Luca was like March. 43 00:01:39,609 --> 00:01:41,609 Other people's servers. Well, there were clouds. They 44 00:01:41,609 --> 00:01:43,369 just didn't have anything to do with it 45 00:01:43,369 --> 00:01:43,995 now. Was a cloud. 46 00:01:44,875 --> 00:01:46,795 They were cumulus, not in this. I mean, 47 00:01:46,795 --> 00:01:49,215 you never know. Yeah. So we're in Branson. 48 00:01:49,834 --> 00:01:51,674 We did We did as you asked me, 49 00:01:51,674 --> 00:01:53,355 and allowed me to actually answer the question. 50 00:01:53,355 --> 00:01:54,795 Yes. Joanne and I both did a session 51 00:01:54,795 --> 00:01:57,115 today. Yeah. I've got I've got another session 52 00:01:57,115 --> 00:01:59,810 tomorrow. What's your session today? Today was 53 00:02:00,829 --> 00:02:02,430 people ask me this. I never remember the 54 00:02:02,430 --> 00:02:04,030 titles to my own sessions. What was it 55 00:02:04,030 --> 00:02:05,469 about? What was it about? It was about 56 00:02:05,469 --> 00:02:07,310 seven tips to being, like, a Microsoft three 57 00:02:07,310 --> 00:02:08,909 sixty five admin. If you're an admin, if 58 00:02:08,909 --> 00:02:11,064 you're managing Microsoft three sixty five, what are 59 00:02:11,064 --> 00:02:13,144 seven things you should be thinking about paying 60 00:02:13,144 --> 00:02:16,104 attention to? Just seven. Just seven. 12. But 61 00:02:16,104 --> 00:02:17,305 they were like did you come up with 62 00:02:17,305 --> 00:02:18,664 seven? How did I come up with seven? 63 00:02:18,664 --> 00:02:20,824 As opposed to five or 12. Copilot. You 64 00:02:20,824 --> 00:02:22,584 said Copilot. What number should I use? And 65 00:02:22,584 --> 00:02:24,530 it says Because I can't cover 12. I 66 00:02:24,530 --> 00:02:26,209 can talk fast, but I can't cover 12 67 00:02:26,209 --> 00:02:28,209 in an hour. That's five minutes of topic 68 00:02:28,209 --> 00:02:29,729 if you take out the introduction to any 69 00:02:29,729 --> 00:02:31,489 questions. That's exactly five minutes of topic. And 70 00:02:31,489 --> 00:02:33,810 people likes I've heard people like the number 71 00:02:33,810 --> 00:02:35,969 seven. Yep. If you end prices with seven, 72 00:02:35,969 --> 00:02:37,729 people are more likely to buy at I 73 00:02:37,729 --> 00:02:39,430 heard the nine. Nine's a four Seven tips. 74 00:02:39,544 --> 00:02:41,544 It is. Do you allow curse words on 75 00:02:41,544 --> 00:02:43,004 your program? Not usually. 76 00:02:43,944 --> 00:02:45,784 We might have to make an exception for 77 00:02:45,784 --> 00:02:46,284 Jay. 78 00:02:46,745 --> 00:02:49,385 This one episode, you might rate it r. 79 00:02:49,784 --> 00:02:51,004 For Jay. Yes. 80 00:02:51,819 --> 00:02:53,500 What was your session about today? Yeah. Co 81 00:02:53,500 --> 00:02:55,340 pilot readiness for the real world. I would 82 00:02:55,340 --> 00:02:56,460 know that if I stayed in the session. 83 00:02:56,460 --> 00:02:57,819 I was only there for three days. I 84 00:02:57,819 --> 00:03:00,060 know. He bailed. Wow. My wife called. He 85 00:03:00,060 --> 00:03:02,939 did. Priorities. Right? And she did tell me 86 00:03:02,939 --> 00:03:04,460 I should go listen, and then I pointed 87 00:03:04,460 --> 00:03:06,204 out that your room was full. It's not 88 00:03:06,204 --> 00:03:07,644 like you didn't have an office. Heard that. 89 00:03:07,644 --> 00:03:09,664 You had, like, standing room only. Congratulations. 90 00:03:09,965 --> 00:03:11,805 Thank you. Jo had 40 people in her 91 00:03:11,805 --> 00:03:13,965 room. Wow. Not including her husband and I. 92 00:03:13,965 --> 00:03:15,965 Her husband, who I think we've broken, by 93 00:03:15,965 --> 00:03:17,245 the way. I looked at her earlier. You 94 00:03:17,245 --> 00:03:19,169 just said her husband doesn't count? In the 95 00:03:19,169 --> 00:03:21,810 40 in the 40 people. Okay. I mean, 96 00:03:21,810 --> 00:03:23,729 he counts. He counts. In fact, he's the 97 00:03:23,729 --> 00:03:25,010 one who told me it was 40, so 98 00:03:25,010 --> 00:03:27,569 he counted four counted. He's a counter. Yes. 99 00:03:27,569 --> 00:03:29,590 Yeah. But it was a ridiculous an accountant. 100 00:03:29,650 --> 00:03:31,409 That's a different thing. That is a different 101 00:03:31,409 --> 00:03:32,805 thing. Yeah. Yeah. They count the business. That's 102 00:03:32,805 --> 00:03:35,655 right. They people. They are being counters. Okay. 103 00:03:35,655 --> 00:03:37,094 I don't know if they count, but they 104 00:03:37,094 --> 00:03:39,014 are being Are we is this really your 105 00:03:39,014 --> 00:03:42,135 podcast? Is that satisfied with me? Sack on 106 00:03:42,135 --> 00:03:44,534 topic. I don't know. People may listen to 107 00:03:44,534 --> 00:03:46,770 this and be like, Jay and Joy are 108 00:03:46,770 --> 00:03:48,069 way better than Scott. 109 00:03:49,250 --> 00:03:50,849 Or they may be like, did they make 110 00:03:50,849 --> 00:03:53,030 Ben take drugs before this record? 111 00:03:53,409 --> 00:03:53,909 Or 112 00:03:54,290 --> 00:03:56,370 please get the Scott back. Don't go to 113 00:03:56,370 --> 00:03:58,449 brands whenever he can with Jay and Joy. 114 00:03:58,449 --> 00:04:00,449 Okay. So anyways, we talked about zero trust. 115 00:04:00,449 --> 00:04:02,193 And then afterwards, we were like, we should 116 00:04:02,193 --> 00:04:03,969 do a podcast. Yes. Joy wasn't there at 117 00:04:03,969 --> 00:04:05,968 the time. But one of the things it 118 00:04:05,968 --> 00:04:07,744 comes out from administration. I don't know how 119 00:04:07,744 --> 00:04:09,520 we got on the topic. It was maybe 120 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,519 just topics we could talk about was and 121 00:04:11,519 --> 00:04:13,295 it's a topic I've been dealing with a 122 00:04:13,295 --> 00:04:16,620 client, is change management Yeah. And how that 123 00:04:16,620 --> 00:04:17,120 changes 124 00:04:17,580 --> 00:04:19,100 with Microsoft March. 125 00:04:19,100 --> 00:04:21,420 Yeah. And then Exactly. You were like, oh, 126 00:04:21,420 --> 00:04:23,740 we need to get Joy too because because 127 00:04:23,740 --> 00:04:25,740 Joy and I present on this. So since 128 00:04:25,740 --> 00:04:27,580 we I told you I speak about change 129 00:04:27,580 --> 00:04:29,535 management a lot, and you asked, what is 130 00:04:29,535 --> 00:04:32,014 that? And I said, well, actually, what you 131 00:04:32,014 --> 00:04:34,495 specifically said was, I the challenge that you're 132 00:04:34,495 --> 00:04:35,555 seeing with your customers 133 00:04:35,935 --> 00:04:37,555 is, like, how do they handle 134 00:04:37,935 --> 00:04:40,574 the pace of change in the platform The 135 00:04:40,574 --> 00:04:43,134 change and change management. When it right changes. 136 00:04:43,134 --> 00:04:43,589 Right. 137 00:04:44,550 --> 00:04:47,269 And because in the cloud, right, you don't 138 00:04:47,269 --> 00:04:49,750 control when things release. We used to we 139 00:04:49,750 --> 00:04:51,750 had companies that would be like, I'm skipping 140 00:04:51,750 --> 00:04:53,430 SharePoint 02/2003, 141 00:04:53,430 --> 00:04:55,110 and I'll wait till 2007 142 00:04:55,110 --> 00:04:57,194 comes out, or I'm skipping 02/2010. 143 00:04:57,194 --> 00:04:59,214 No one said that. I'm skipping 02/2013. 144 00:04:59,355 --> 00:05:01,355 Yes. Everyone said that. And I'm waiting for 145 00:05:01,355 --> 00:05:03,274 '16 to come out. Yes. And there was 146 00:05:03,355 --> 00:05:04,495 you had the choice, 147 00:05:04,795 --> 00:05:06,395 and you don't anymore. And so the question 148 00:05:06,395 --> 00:05:08,415 you asked was how do you help customers 149 00:05:08,555 --> 00:05:09,115 talk through 150 00:05:09,810 --> 00:05:11,169 the fact that they don't have that control 151 00:05:11,169 --> 00:05:12,769 link? And that's when I realized, I'm like, 152 00:05:12,769 --> 00:05:14,849 look, I can talk about change management. But 153 00:05:14,849 --> 00:05:16,370 Joy and I actually have a session that 154 00:05:16,370 --> 00:05:17,889 we present on, and we had a workshop 155 00:05:17,889 --> 00:05:20,069 on a couple years back Mhmm. About 156 00:05:20,449 --> 00:05:20,949 how 157 00:05:21,329 --> 00:05:23,664 it's almost an IT as a service model. 158 00:05:23,664 --> 00:05:25,985 Mhmm. I know ITaaS is like an officially 159 00:05:25,985 --> 00:05:28,785 branded thing. And whether or not that's exactly 160 00:05:28,785 --> 00:05:31,104 what I'm saying, it's this idea that you 161 00:05:31,104 --> 00:05:34,144 can't just deploy SharePoint and then deploy the 162 00:05:34,144 --> 00:05:36,420 next version of this and then deploy. Like, 163 00:05:36,420 --> 00:05:38,420 you have to partner with the business. You 164 00:05:38,420 --> 00:05:40,019 have to be part of the business. You 165 00:05:40,019 --> 00:05:42,680 think about how organizations run now, HR departments 166 00:05:42,740 --> 00:05:45,459 have an HR business partner, and they don't 167 00:05:45,459 --> 00:05:47,860 just roll out the insurance program every year 168 00:05:47,860 --> 00:05:49,699 and walk away. They actually have someone you 169 00:05:49,699 --> 00:05:49,948 work with throughout the year that understands your 170 00:05:49,948 --> 00:05:50,062 part of the business. And that's really that's 171 00:05:50,062 --> 00:05:51,080 how you get around this. 172 00:05:53,194 --> 00:05:55,675 Business. And that's really that's how you get 173 00:05:55,675 --> 00:05:56,574 around this because 174 00:05:57,035 --> 00:05:57,615 the one man 175 00:05:58,074 --> 00:05:58,654 IT shops, 176 00:05:59,035 --> 00:06:00,795 which I get that they exist and I 177 00:06:00,795 --> 00:06:03,355 feel terrible for the person who is the 178 00:06:03,355 --> 00:06:06,154 m three sixty five person, but, like, they 179 00:06:06,154 --> 00:06:08,990 can't keep up. Right. To be Yeah. Please. 180 00:06:08,990 --> 00:06:11,149 To be fair, even those orgs that have 181 00:06:11,149 --> 00:06:12,209 a very robust 182 00:06:12,509 --> 00:06:14,589 IT team is still a struggle to keep 183 00:06:14,589 --> 00:06:17,810 up, and it's very hard, typically, not always, 184 00:06:18,110 --> 00:06:20,750 to have the personas on that IT team 185 00:06:20,750 --> 00:06:23,264 that's, yes. Let me go partner with the 186 00:06:23,264 --> 00:06:25,824 business. Yeah. Yes. Let me be the agent 187 00:06:25,824 --> 00:06:27,985 that's going forward to help implement this change 188 00:06:27,985 --> 00:06:29,605 to prepare them to communicate. 189 00:06:30,145 --> 00:06:31,904 Hopefully, I mean, if you're really blessed, you've 190 00:06:31,904 --> 00:06:34,865 got a training arm somewhere Right. That's gonna 191 00:06:34,865 --> 00:06:37,345 help partner between IT and the business to 192 00:06:37,345 --> 00:06:39,339 roll out training? Are we socializing 193 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:40,699 on newsletters, 194 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:41,819 on the Internet? 195 00:06:42,439 --> 00:06:44,459 What's going on? We as 196 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,319 IT pros are not always the people to 197 00:06:47,319 --> 00:06:49,800 do those things Right. Regardless of the size 198 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,479 of our team. So I think that's something 199 00:06:51,479 --> 00:06:52,685 too. Change 200 00:06:52,985 --> 00:06:56,205 management has got to have partners in various 201 00:06:56,264 --> 00:06:57,485 areas of the business. 202 00:06:57,865 --> 00:06:59,705 IT can say, oh, this is the channel 203 00:06:59,705 --> 00:07:01,545 we're gonna be on with Microsoft. Right? Is 204 00:07:01,545 --> 00:07:03,645 it No. Is the pipeline open or not? 205 00:07:03,705 --> 00:07:05,884 And we can do things like that. But 206 00:07:06,264 --> 00:07:08,580 when is it time to do a pilot 207 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:09,540 of, 208 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,480 I don't know, loop workspaces? Or I'm gonna 209 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,420 say it. I'm gonna say it. What? Copilot. 210 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,220 Shut up. 211 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,560 There is cursing. We need There is drugs. 212 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:20,560 There is alcohol on your own. Things. This 213 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,035 whole punch is just going down there. This 214 00:07:23,035 --> 00:07:25,375 is in three six five unhinged right now. 215 00:07:26,955 --> 00:07:30,014 But who's gonna go and say, hey. Finance. 216 00:07:30,314 --> 00:07:32,314 Yeah. When's a good time? Because like you 217 00:07:32,314 --> 00:07:34,475 were saying, how are they dealing with the 218 00:07:34,475 --> 00:07:36,539 rate of change, the pace of change? And 219 00:07:36,539 --> 00:07:38,779 there's some departments that have certain seasons, certain 220 00:07:38,779 --> 00:07:40,379 times when it's like, it can't be now. 221 00:07:40,379 --> 00:07:42,139 We gotta do closeout for the year end. 222 00:07:42,139 --> 00:07:44,620 Right. Yeah. Can't be now or what have 223 00:07:44,620 --> 00:07:46,300 you. Right. And some of the things like 224 00:07:46,459 --> 00:07:48,220 this is what I've been struggling with. Maybe 225 00:07:48,220 --> 00:07:50,055 not struggling with. One of the challenges I've 226 00:07:50,055 --> 00:07:51,735 seen with one of the companies I'm working 227 00:07:51,735 --> 00:07:54,134 with, they're they've been traditionally on prem. Right? 228 00:07:54,134 --> 00:07:56,694 They're Exchange server. They have their SharePoint server. 229 00:07:56,694 --> 00:07:59,894 Yep. They have their active directory identity team, 230 00:07:59,894 --> 00:08:02,295 and they're migrating everything to the cloud. They 231 00:08:02,295 --> 00:08:05,000 just finished email. They're doing Skype. That was 232 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,400 a round of applause. Yes. Skype on prem 233 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,720 with the Teams. They're doing personal drives to 234 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,439 OneDrive. Yeah. Down the road is gonna be 235 00:08:12,439 --> 00:08:14,840 department chairs to SharePoint, all of this. Yeah. 236 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,160 But they're very much network. IT is well, 237 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:18,600 we're the project team. We just do the 238 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,375 migration, and then we hand it off to 239 00:08:21,754 --> 00:08:22,894 the other teams, and 240 00:08:23,194 --> 00:08:25,595 they have, like, their I mean, very traditional 241 00:08:25,595 --> 00:08:28,314 change management. We have our cap meetings Yep. 242 00:08:28,394 --> 00:08:29,435 And our forms that we fill out. And 243 00:08:29,435 --> 00:08:30,714 those go in on Tuesday, and we make 244 00:08:30,714 --> 00:08:32,475 our changes on Thursday. But then I'll be 245 00:08:32,475 --> 00:08:34,230 on with them and I'm like, that button 246 00:08:34,230 --> 00:08:37,029 moved or this option changed or this and 247 00:08:37,029 --> 00:08:39,110 this. They're like, well, so what do we 248 00:08:39,110 --> 00:08:41,829 do about our end users where we don't 249 00:08:41,990 --> 00:08:43,909 to your point, we can set channels and 250 00:08:43,909 --> 00:08:46,544 we can set Right. Update schedules, but there 251 00:08:46,544 --> 00:08:49,504 are things that go in not necessarily on 252 00:08:49,504 --> 00:08:52,485 a schedule or it's we're gonna start here. 253 00:08:52,544 --> 00:08:55,264 Yep. But over the next three months, it'll 254 00:08:55,264 --> 00:08:56,485 hit your tenant 255 00:08:57,105 --> 00:08:59,105 sometime. And they actually ask me. They're like, 256 00:08:59,105 --> 00:09:00,570 so how can we control when that hits 257 00:09:00,570 --> 00:09:03,289 our tenants? I'm like Oh, no. Don't migrate 258 00:09:03,289 --> 00:09:05,049 to the cloud. But I love the fact 259 00:09:05,129 --> 00:09:06,169 And then how do you go in and 260 00:09:06,169 --> 00:09:08,169 start addressing that? How do you talk how 261 00:09:08,169 --> 00:09:10,750 do you move companies from traditional change management 262 00:09:10,809 --> 00:09:13,129 to not can we modernize? How do you 263 00:09:13,129 --> 00:09:15,289 modernize change management? The appetite for it. I 264 00:09:15,289 --> 00:09:17,745 mean, that's definitely gonna be a cultural shift 265 00:09:17,745 --> 00:09:19,745 in thinking and how they approach things. The 266 00:09:19,745 --> 00:09:22,144 fact that they ask the question Yeah. It's 267 00:09:22,144 --> 00:09:23,904 a good start. That's a really that they're 268 00:09:23,904 --> 00:09:26,225 actually thinking about that. Whoever you are, well 269 00:09:26,225 --> 00:09:26,725 done. 270 00:09:27,584 --> 00:09:28,084 Because 271 00:09:28,625 --> 00:09:31,019 not every company asks that question. Say, how 272 00:09:31,019 --> 00:09:32,779 can we make sure our users are prepared 273 00:09:32,779 --> 00:09:34,480 for this? Part of it is, 274 00:09:34,860 --> 00:09:36,139 Jay, this is kinda like what we do 275 00:09:36,139 --> 00:09:37,980 our workshop. So the one we had, we 276 00:09:37,980 --> 00:09:39,419 used to call it how to win friends 277 00:09:39,419 --> 00:09:42,139 in the business and solve problems. Yes. Part 278 00:09:42,139 --> 00:09:44,539 of it is ensuring that there is a 279 00:09:44,539 --> 00:09:45,440 good relationship 280 00:09:46,134 --> 00:09:48,694 between the business and IT. Yep. So that 281 00:09:48,694 --> 00:09:51,574 they're comfortable. Both sides in that relationship are 282 00:09:51,574 --> 00:09:53,894 comfortable coming together and say, okay. Things are 283 00:09:53,894 --> 00:09:56,294 about very different. Yeah. And we are here 284 00:09:56,294 --> 00:09:58,615 for you. This is how we're gonna this 285 00:09:58,615 --> 00:09:59,975 is how we're gonna reach out to you. 286 00:09:59,975 --> 00:10:01,250 This is how we're gonna prepare you as 287 00:10:01,250 --> 00:10:03,029 best we can. But Microsoft 288 00:10:03,409 --> 00:10:05,990 controls the clicking of that button. Yep. Having 289 00:10:06,210 --> 00:10:08,230 and I'm not talking about help desk tickets. 290 00:10:08,370 --> 00:10:10,450 This could be super uncomfortable for them, but 291 00:10:10,450 --> 00:10:12,690 we're not talking about, hey. The button's different. 292 00:10:12,690 --> 00:10:13,634 Put in a ticket. 293 00:10:14,754 --> 00:10:16,835 As soon as someone notices, maybe they have 294 00:10:16,995 --> 00:10:19,415 there it is, maybe they have a community, 295 00:10:19,475 --> 00:10:22,115 like a Veeva engaged community where someone could 296 00:10:22,115 --> 00:10:24,595 see something, say something Yep. And go, hey. 297 00:10:24,595 --> 00:10:26,355 I just saw this. Check it out. Here's 298 00:10:26,355 --> 00:10:28,355 a picture, and all kinds of stuff like 299 00:10:28,355 --> 00:10:30,950 that. Yep. Or ways to help gently 300 00:10:31,490 --> 00:10:34,529 Yeah. Repair. The primary key, and maybe you're 301 00:10:34,529 --> 00:10:36,610 sensing this theme as we're talking about it, 302 00:10:36,610 --> 00:10:39,750 is it is no longer just IT's responsibility 303 00:10:40,210 --> 00:10:41,509 to own the technology. 304 00:10:41,889 --> 00:10:44,725 It is, first of all, a group responsibility. 305 00:10:44,865 --> 00:10:47,345 Like, IT is in charge of configuring the 306 00:10:47,345 --> 00:10:49,745 technology. They're in charge of making sure they're 307 00:10:49,745 --> 00:10:52,065 picking the right technology. They're in charge of 308 00:10:52,065 --> 00:10:54,964 deciding who gets to use the technology. But 309 00:10:55,105 --> 00:10:55,605 most 310 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:58,919 medium to large sized organizations, you have a 311 00:10:58,919 --> 00:11:02,220 communications team. They have spent money 312 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:04,220 deciding and studying 313 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:05,500 and analyzing 314 00:11:05,879 --> 00:11:08,215 and executing on the best ways to communicate 315 00:11:08,215 --> 00:11:10,615 to people. IT should own the communication. IT 316 00:11:10,615 --> 00:11:12,634 should own what we need to get. Communication 317 00:11:12,855 --> 00:11:14,715 should own Yeah. How do we communicate. 318 00:11:15,254 --> 00:11:17,975 Learning should own what mechanism should we have 319 00:11:17,975 --> 00:11:19,575 for deploying it. And I go back to 320 00:11:19,575 --> 00:11:21,254 what we said earlier, which is, okay. You're 321 00:11:21,254 --> 00:11:23,014 an IT shop of wonder. You're a company 322 00:11:23,014 --> 00:11:25,539 of 20 people. Like, these don't all exist, 323 00:11:25,539 --> 00:11:26,919 but these are the roles 324 00:11:27,299 --> 00:11:29,299 that someone has to take on. And so 325 00:11:29,299 --> 00:11:31,139 what you're trying to decide, well, how many 326 00:11:31,139 --> 00:11:32,980 staff do I need for this program? You 327 00:11:32,980 --> 00:11:34,659 need to look at these different roles and 328 00:11:34,659 --> 00:11:37,235 say, okay, Who do I have that can 329 00:11:37,235 --> 00:11:37,735 analyze 330 00:11:38,195 --> 00:11:41,075 the, communications from Microsoft about what changes are 331 00:11:41,075 --> 00:11:42,834 coming out to my tenant? Mhmm. And what 332 00:11:42,834 --> 00:11:45,075 are the tools that exist for that? And 333 00:11:45,075 --> 00:11:47,794 that's a big area. Like, most of your 334 00:11:47,794 --> 00:11:49,954 IT admins of one can't keep up with 335 00:11:49,954 --> 00:11:52,889 that stuff. So Right. I I you build 336 00:11:52,889 --> 00:11:55,450 a PowerApp to look for certain types of 337 00:11:55,450 --> 00:11:58,889 changes. You build notification systems. You the community 338 00:11:58,889 --> 00:12:00,830 is a great way of getting this information 339 00:12:00,889 --> 00:12:03,209 out there. And for people that, like you 340 00:12:03,209 --> 00:12:05,534 said, I I noticed this change happen. And 341 00:12:05,534 --> 00:12:07,695 then, yeah, now you've got the community talking 342 00:12:07,695 --> 00:12:10,514 to themselves. I was in on, Sarah Haas' 343 00:12:10,735 --> 00:12:13,855 session this morning on SharePoint and intranets in 344 00:12:13,855 --> 00:12:15,955 Veeva. She said her 345 00:12:16,460 --> 00:12:17,980 bank uses Veeva, 346 00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:21,500 connection Veeva Engage. Okay. I just totally did 347 00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:23,019 what she did. I blanked on which one 348 00:12:23,019 --> 00:12:25,899 was which. Her bank uses Veeva Engage, and 349 00:12:25,899 --> 00:12:28,480 she said if they push something out to 350 00:12:28,779 --> 00:12:30,404 the and they use SharePoint and they use 351 00:12:30,565 --> 00:12:32,165 connections. If they push something out to Veeva 352 00:12:32,165 --> 00:12:33,845 connections, they can get it in front of 353 00:12:33,845 --> 00:12:35,764 58,000 sets of eyes in one day. Like, 354 00:12:35,764 --> 00:12:38,245 that's insane. Are they using Amplify for that? 355 00:12:38,245 --> 00:12:40,565 They're using Amplify for that. Yep. So all 356 00:12:40,565 --> 00:12:43,545 of these combined things together, like, this suite 357 00:12:43,605 --> 00:12:44,345 is relevant. 358 00:12:45,139 --> 00:12:47,220 But, yeah, it's hard to get to a 359 00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:49,620 point where, like, you can take the step, 360 00:12:49,620 --> 00:12:52,259 but you have to Right. Ultimately, the question 361 00:12:52,259 --> 00:12:54,340 that you asked is, how do we start 362 00:12:54,340 --> 00:12:57,059 to manage the incredible rate of change that 363 00:12:57,059 --> 00:12:58,340 we're gonna see, and how do we help 364 00:12:58,340 --> 00:13:00,794 users understand it? The answer becomes 365 00:13:01,254 --> 00:13:03,095 you use the tools that are available to 366 00:13:03,095 --> 00:13:05,414 you and you build a team that actually 367 00:13:05,414 --> 00:13:07,975 dedicates time to it because you can't do 368 00:13:07,975 --> 00:13:09,495 it otherwise. Yeah. And I would say that 369 00:13:09,495 --> 00:13:12,299 a cross functional team. Yeah. Yes. And that's 370 00:13:12,299 --> 00:13:14,059 one thing I saw, like, to your point 371 00:13:14,059 --> 00:13:16,299 about the communication. This particular client, they did 372 00:13:16,299 --> 00:13:17,840 a great job, but they had a communications 373 00:13:17,980 --> 00:13:18,799 team. Okay. 374 00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:21,660 As they were deploying everything, there was a 375 00:13:21,660 --> 00:13:23,660 person on the communications team assigned to it. 376 00:13:23,660 --> 00:13:25,740 I don't know. She sent out, like, 50 377 00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:28,514 or 60 emails Mhmm. Over the course of 378 00:13:28,514 --> 00:13:30,455 it, alerting different users. 379 00:13:30,834 --> 00:13:33,154 Talk about h drive to OneDrive. Right. This 380 00:13:33,154 --> 00:13:35,475 is the time period you're gonna get migrated. 381 00:13:35,475 --> 00:13:36,934 This is the time you're gonna get migrated. 382 00:13:36,995 --> 00:13:40,034 Helping them prepare. Expectations matter. What I don't 383 00:13:40,034 --> 00:13:41,815 know like, they have the whole project team. 384 00:13:41,899 --> 00:13:43,740 I think the other important part is once 385 00:13:43,740 --> 00:13:44,480 it's done, 386 00:13:44,860 --> 00:13:48,139 continuing that. Yeah. What? Right. She was assigned 387 00:13:48,139 --> 00:13:50,139 to join the project. Yep. But now it's 388 00:13:50,539 --> 00:13:53,340 okay. This is not We're the stakeholders in 389 00:13:53,340 --> 00:13:55,740 each of those business areas. Keep this going 390 00:13:55,740 --> 00:13:57,514 forward. So that gets to the other part 391 00:13:57,514 --> 00:13:59,195 of the conversation we always had in our 392 00:13:59,195 --> 00:14:01,375 win friends conversation, which was 393 00:14:02,315 --> 00:14:04,095 it's rolling out the cloud 394 00:14:04,714 --> 00:14:06,634 is not a one and done thing. It 395 00:14:06,634 --> 00:14:08,554 is I get it. You're gonna have a 396 00:14:08,554 --> 00:14:09,960 product, a project team 397 00:14:10,820 --> 00:14:13,720 that is dedicated to, like, high priority execution, 398 00:14:14,019 --> 00:14:16,179 and you don't want them to stick with 399 00:14:16,179 --> 00:14:18,740 something for five years. But you have to 400 00:14:18,740 --> 00:14:20,820 have a team that is in charge of 401 00:14:20,820 --> 00:14:23,615 over five years and beyond Yeah. 402 00:14:24,315 --> 00:14:24,975 Managing expectations 403 00:14:25,595 --> 00:14:28,394 and evaluating the new capabilities that are coming 404 00:14:28,394 --> 00:14:30,654 out and communicating out those changes. 405 00:14:34,709 --> 00:14:36,870 Do you feel overwhelmed by trying to manage 406 00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:39,189 your Office three sixty five environment? Are you 407 00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:42,490 facing unexpected issues that disrupt your company's productivity? 408 00:14:42,709 --> 00:14:44,629 Intelligink is here to help. Much like you 409 00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:46,549 take your car to the mechanic that has 410 00:14:46,549 --> 00:14:48,629 specialized knowledge on how to best keep your 411 00:14:48,629 --> 00:14:49,370 car running, 412 00:14:49,695 --> 00:14:52,495 Intelligent helps you with your Microsoft cloud environment 413 00:14:52,495 --> 00:14:53,955 because that's their expertise. 414 00:14:54,415 --> 00:14:56,654 Intelligent keeps up with the latest updates in 415 00:14:56,654 --> 00:14:58,815 the Microsoft cloud to help keep your business 416 00:14:58,815 --> 00:15:01,134 running smoothly and ahead of the curve. Whether 417 00:15:01,134 --> 00:15:02,990 you are a small organization with with just 418 00:15:02,990 --> 00:15:05,230 a few users up to an organization of 419 00:15:05,230 --> 00:15:06,529 several thousand employees, 420 00:15:06,909 --> 00:15:08,909 they want to partner with you to implement 421 00:15:08,909 --> 00:15:09,649 and administer 422 00:15:09,950 --> 00:15:11,730 your Microsoft cloud technology. 423 00:15:12,350 --> 00:15:15,889 Visit them at inteliginc.com/podcast. 424 00:15:16,190 --> 00:15:22,904 That's intelligink.com/podcast 425 00:15:23,285 --> 00:15:25,445 for more information or to schedule a thirty 426 00:15:25,445 --> 00:15:27,465 minute call to get started with them today. 427 00:15:27,764 --> 00:15:31,125 Remember, Intelligink focuses on the Microsoft cloud so 428 00:15:31,125 --> 00:15:32,610 you can focus on your business. 429 00:15:39,409 --> 00:15:41,889 Continuing communication after the project. Ship it and 430 00:15:41,889 --> 00:15:43,169 forget it. You've got to teach it because 431 00:15:43,169 --> 00:15:44,450 you give them the tool. You give them 432 00:15:44,450 --> 00:15:46,049 the SharePoint. You give them the OneDrive. You 433 00:15:46,049 --> 00:15:48,674 give them the Teams. Yeah. And, yes, there 434 00:15:48,674 --> 00:15:51,894 has to be that support throughout that adoption 435 00:15:51,955 --> 00:15:54,274 uptick rate. How do you use it? Mhmm. 436 00:15:54,274 --> 00:15:56,914 What are your use cases in your business 437 00:15:56,914 --> 00:15:58,835 area as compared to all the other business 438 00:15:58,835 --> 00:16:01,259 areas? Right. What's the same? What's different? Get 439 00:16:01,259 --> 00:16:03,500 them going there. The more people use things, 440 00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:05,420 the more questions they will have Yep. The 441 00:16:05,420 --> 00:16:08,139 more ideas they will have, which contrary to 442 00:16:08,139 --> 00:16:10,139 some IT people that I have worked with 443 00:16:10,139 --> 00:16:12,164 in the past, that's a good thing. It's 444 00:16:12,164 --> 00:16:14,365 a good thing. That. Wow. Right? When your 445 00:16:14,365 --> 00:16:17,245 users ask questions and want things. Yes. If 446 00:16:17,245 --> 00:16:19,404 you can see the face on this podcast 447 00:16:19,565 --> 00:16:21,245 We are recording video. We'll see if we 448 00:16:21,245 --> 00:16:22,684 ever that ever sees the light of day. 449 00:16:22,684 --> 00:16:24,949 Yeah. It is. And the other thing about 450 00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:26,389 that is if you want them to actually 451 00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:28,549 understand the change, you have to make it 452 00:16:28,549 --> 00:16:31,289 about them, which means you have to understand 453 00:16:31,429 --> 00:16:33,509 what they're trying to achieve, which brings me 454 00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:35,589 back to the entire conversation, which is you 455 00:16:35,589 --> 00:16:38,230 have to partner with the business. Yeah. And 456 00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:40,695 I think that's a challenge. I think if 457 00:16:40,695 --> 00:16:42,215 we were gonna talk about one of the 458 00:16:42,215 --> 00:16:42,715 biggest 459 00:16:43,095 --> 00:16:45,674 mindset shifts Yeah. For IT 460 00:16:46,134 --> 00:16:48,235 in a cloud world and modernizing 461 00:16:48,535 --> 00:16:49,674 some of that change management 462 00:16:50,054 --> 00:16:52,394 is the need for IT to partner 463 00:16:52,759 --> 00:16:54,519 much closer with the business. And I think 464 00:16:54,519 --> 00:16:56,360 this is something you brought up when we 465 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,279 were talking about, hey. Here's stuff we could 466 00:16:58,279 --> 00:17:01,500 talk about on the podcast. Right. Traditional IT, 467 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,399 you were just there. You stood up servers. 468 00:17:03,399 --> 00:17:04,539 You patched servers. 469 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,619 You didn't have to talk to 470 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,625 the business as much. You were just kind 471 00:17:08,625 --> 00:17:10,545 of there, and that's even the traditional IT 472 00:17:10,545 --> 00:17:12,065 person. Right? They're, like Yeah. Hide in their 473 00:17:12,065 --> 00:17:13,825 little cubby. They don't wanna talk to people. 474 00:17:13,825 --> 00:17:15,744 They don't wanna interact with people. They want 475 00:17:15,744 --> 00:17:17,904 the lights off. Right. I do like all 476 00:17:17,904 --> 00:17:19,845 of those things. By the way. It's fair. 477 00:17:19,904 --> 00:17:20,964 It is fair because 478 00:17:21,345 --> 00:17:23,490 none of that I can disagree with. And 479 00:17:23,570 --> 00:17:25,170 Right. There are times when I don't wanna 480 00:17:25,170 --> 00:17:27,090 talk to people anymore. But I think it 481 00:17:27,090 --> 00:17:29,650 becomes more and more of a need for 482 00:17:29,650 --> 00:17:31,809 IT to be able to talk to Yes. 483 00:17:31,890 --> 00:17:33,890 People that aren't IT. Right. Because you want 484 00:17:33,890 --> 00:17:35,984 it to be successful. You have you've paid 485 00:17:35,984 --> 00:17:38,244 for the licensing. You've paid for the infrastructure. 486 00:17:38,704 --> 00:17:42,224 You have committed time, efforts, resources for this 487 00:17:42,224 --> 00:17:44,865 project. Yep. So then we don't support it. 488 00:17:44,865 --> 00:17:46,704 We don't follow it up, and we've let 489 00:17:46,704 --> 00:17:49,759 it fail. We then we go by box 490 00:17:49,759 --> 00:17:51,279 because we didn't take time to teach people 491 00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:52,960 how to use OneDrive. Right? That makes no 492 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:53,460 sense. 493 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:55,859 It absolutely makes no sense. 494 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:57,700 So, yeah, 100%. 495 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,994 Doing these things, it's a continuation 496 00:18:01,375 --> 00:18:03,875 of the next phase of the project, and 497 00:18:04,174 --> 00:18:06,494 it's how it becomes successful. And I would 498 00:18:06,494 --> 00:18:08,434 say too sorry. I know that you Please. 499 00:18:08,974 --> 00:18:10,755 One of the things we have to remember, 500 00:18:11,134 --> 00:18:12,974 we contend in IT to have a little 501 00:18:12,974 --> 00:18:15,179 bit of the little g god complex. We 502 00:18:15,179 --> 00:18:16,460 know what the tech does. We know how 503 00:18:16,460 --> 00:18:17,740 to use it. We know what it's for. 504 00:18:17,740 --> 00:18:19,179 We set it up. We do all these 505 00:18:19,179 --> 00:18:22,159 things. But that doesn't mean we understand how 506 00:18:22,299 --> 00:18:22,799 operations, 507 00:18:23,339 --> 00:18:24,079 how contracts, 508 00:18:24,380 --> 00:18:25,200 how security, 509 00:18:25,579 --> 00:18:28,460 how finance, how human resources need to use 510 00:18:28,460 --> 00:18:30,855 it day by day. Yep. They're experts in 511 00:18:30,855 --> 00:18:33,494 their fields. We're experts in ours. That has 512 00:18:33,494 --> 00:18:35,994 to come together. Which I appreciate 513 00:18:36,455 --> 00:18:38,795 how Microsoft has pushed the technology 514 00:18:39,095 --> 00:18:39,994 to enable 515 00:18:40,455 --> 00:18:42,659 the people who are experts about their business 516 00:18:42,659 --> 00:18:44,419 to own that part of the business. Right? 517 00:18:44,419 --> 00:18:46,500 If you think about how Teams governance works, 518 00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:50,339 right, they took the SharePoint site admin and 519 00:18:50,339 --> 00:18:52,279 really destroyed the concept. 520 00:18:52,659 --> 00:18:55,625 And instead, you have Teams owners. And who 521 00:18:55,625 --> 00:18:57,144 is the team owner? The person who created 522 00:18:57,144 --> 00:18:58,984 the group. Who is the likely person to 523 00:18:58,984 --> 00:19:01,464 have created the group? The person from the 524 00:19:01,464 --> 00:19:03,944 business who needed the group. They know that 525 00:19:03,944 --> 00:19:07,065 thing. And while I don't necessarily agree completely 526 00:19:07,065 --> 00:19:09,625 with they should be the technical admin, the 527 00:19:09,625 --> 00:19:11,759 fact that gives them the right to say 528 00:19:11,759 --> 00:19:13,519 who should be a member and who should 529 00:19:13,519 --> 00:19:16,240 not is important. Like, I no longer have 530 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,419 to call Ben from IT 531 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,720 to get someone added to or removed from 532 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,159 my SharePoint side. I can just do it 533 00:19:22,159 --> 00:19:23,759 myself. And if you look at the way 534 00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:26,695 the third party tools have done governance, it's 535 00:19:26,695 --> 00:19:28,775 putting that in the hands of that business 536 00:19:28,775 --> 00:19:29,674 owner. And 537 00:19:30,055 --> 00:19:32,215 so Joy's absolutely right. Like, the business owner 538 00:19:32,215 --> 00:19:33,894 knows the business. They know how to do 539 00:19:33,894 --> 00:19:35,755 their business. If you want to technologically 540 00:19:36,134 --> 00:19:38,455 support them, you bring that vacuum cleaner right 541 00:19:38,455 --> 00:19:39,815 into the room while we're oh, they turned 542 00:19:39,815 --> 00:19:40,955 it off at the point. 543 00:19:43,730 --> 00:19:45,650 Then you have to really partner with the 544 00:19:45,650 --> 00:19:48,049 business to Yeah. To communicate to them how 545 00:19:48,049 --> 00:19:50,930 does this work in their line. So that's 546 00:19:51,009 --> 00:19:52,630 I mean Yeah. And I think 547 00:19:53,009 --> 00:19:54,230 that's a mindset 548 00:19:54,575 --> 00:19:57,154 shift for IT too to be able to 549 00:19:57,295 --> 00:19:59,555 let go of that. Yes. Like, me, especially 550 00:19:59,694 --> 00:20:01,454 coming more from the admin side of it, 551 00:20:01,454 --> 00:20:03,375 the security side of it, I like to 552 00:20:03,375 --> 00:20:06,015 be in control. I like to know who's 553 00:20:06,015 --> 00:20:07,234 getting into the site, 554 00:20:07,535 --> 00:20:08,930 who who are we giving access. And a 555 00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:10,690 lot of companies in the past do need 556 00:20:10,690 --> 00:20:12,690 access to a file share. Right. Yep. It's 557 00:20:12,690 --> 00:20:14,529 not the business that does it. They open 558 00:20:14,529 --> 00:20:16,130 a ticket with IT. Right. IT goes and 559 00:20:16,130 --> 00:20:18,369 adds them to the appropriate security groups, then 560 00:20:18,369 --> 00:20:20,289 they get their GPOs deployed, then they get 561 00:20:20,289 --> 00:20:22,769 drives mapped, or they now start seeing the 562 00:20:22,769 --> 00:20:25,464 file shares show up. Yep. So part of 563 00:20:25,464 --> 00:20:28,025 that whole thing is I think there's a 564 00:20:28,025 --> 00:20:29,865 couple of conversations. There's one, how do you 565 00:20:29,865 --> 00:20:30,765 help IT 566 00:20:31,144 --> 00:20:33,625 let go of that and say, no. It's 567 00:20:33,625 --> 00:20:36,505 okay for somebody else to manage security of 568 00:20:36,505 --> 00:20:38,970 this team. There's obviously training them how to 569 00:20:38,970 --> 00:20:40,890 do that. Sure. Yes. I think the other 570 00:20:40,890 --> 00:20:42,910 aspect of it that you run into is 571 00:20:43,049 --> 00:20:46,009 some companies still have certain security regulatory, all 572 00:20:46,009 --> 00:20:47,450 of that. Absolutely. How do you make sure 573 00:20:47,450 --> 00:20:49,690 you're still auditing some of that Yes. To 574 00:20:49,690 --> 00:20:53,125 make sure that these owners aren't misbehaving Yeah. 575 00:20:53,204 --> 00:20:55,765 In Teams and people are not getting access 576 00:20:55,765 --> 00:20:57,765 to stuff they shouldn't as a part of 577 00:20:57,765 --> 00:20:59,684 all of this. Again, it's changed, man. It's 578 00:20:59,684 --> 00:21:02,085 changing production, changing security. It's still part of 579 00:21:02,085 --> 00:21:04,744 that organization. Think about the difference from managing 580 00:21:04,805 --> 00:21:06,664 on prem Azure Active Directory 581 00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:10,309 to moving to the cloud with intra, intra 582 00:21:10,309 --> 00:21:12,410 Azure, however you call it these days. Purview, 583 00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:16,069 sensitivity labels, DLP, all that stuff. That's a 584 00:21:16,069 --> 00:21:18,710 big shift too just for those people in 585 00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:19,769 IT. So, 586 00:21:20,085 --> 00:21:23,284 hopefully, we have good security minded organizations out 587 00:21:23,284 --> 00:21:26,085 there that are supporting that training for their 588 00:21:26,085 --> 00:21:28,244 security people on the IT team because that's 589 00:21:28,244 --> 00:21:30,105 a huge shift. Yeah. Huge. 590 00:21:30,884 --> 00:21:32,884 But either of you guys ever been the 591 00:21:32,884 --> 00:21:35,220 SharePoint army of one against the business or 592 00:21:35,619 --> 00:21:38,419 that admin role. Right? I Thankfully, no. I 593 00:21:38,419 --> 00:21:40,679 can remember getting calls, and it would be 594 00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:42,839 Bill from business development. 595 00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:45,539 Sorry. I've been wanting to say that. Like, 596 00:21:45,539 --> 00:21:47,380 it's like the third time I've wanted to 597 00:21:47,380 --> 00:21:49,335 say it from State Farm. Jane. I almost 598 00:21:49,335 --> 00:21:51,194 had a bang from State Farm earlier. 599 00:21:52,214 --> 00:21:54,154 Not wearing a red shirt, but okay. 600 00:21:54,855 --> 00:21:57,414 But it's yeah. I need access to my 601 00:21:57,414 --> 00:21:58,474 site. Okay. 602 00:21:59,095 --> 00:22:01,190 Who are you, and what's your site? And 603 00:22:01,190 --> 00:22:03,910 under what authority? Right. I don't know who 604 00:22:03,910 --> 00:22:04,569 you are, 605 00:22:04,869 --> 00:22:06,390 but yet at that point in time, this 606 00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:08,390 is back in the lost days, I was 607 00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:11,029 the one granting access because we hadn't trained 608 00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:13,430 it. We were in a very sensitive area 609 00:22:13,589 --> 00:22:15,769 industry at the time, so in the government. 610 00:22:16,065 --> 00:22:18,625 So untrained people couldn't manage their SharePoint sites, 611 00:22:18,625 --> 00:22:19,684 and there'd been no training. 612 00:22:20,065 --> 00:22:22,865 Yeah. And in the okay. So I'm coming 613 00:22:22,865 --> 00:22:24,565 at all of this from a very idealistic 614 00:22:24,704 --> 00:22:27,184 perspective. I totally get that. Yeah. But if 615 00:22:27,184 --> 00:22:29,490 you work in an industry that's highly regulated, 616 00:22:29,650 --> 00:22:32,529 that has highly sensitive information, guess what? The 617 00:22:32,529 --> 00:22:34,769 cost of doing business means spending more money 618 00:22:34,769 --> 00:22:36,529 to protect that, which means, hey. Maybe the 619 00:22:36,529 --> 00:22:39,250 native tooling doesn't fit your need, and maybe 620 00:22:39,250 --> 00:22:40,789 you need to bring in a third party. 621 00:22:40,849 --> 00:22:42,944 There are plenty of them out there that 622 00:22:42,944 --> 00:22:45,345 can help to automate that governance, that can 623 00:22:45,345 --> 00:22:47,744 help to automate the auditing beyond what the 624 00:22:47,744 --> 00:22:50,625 native capabilities can do. Yes. I'm the Microsoft 625 00:22:50,625 --> 00:22:52,865 guy in the conversation saying, look at a 626 00:22:52,865 --> 00:22:54,644 third party tool because 627 00:22:55,220 --> 00:22:57,299 they exist for a reason. That's true. There's 628 00:22:57,299 --> 00:22:59,640 third party tools that do governance, Joy. There 629 00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:00,200 absolutely 630 00:23:01,140 --> 00:23:02,740 are. There I mean, I've heard of this 631 00:23:02,740 --> 00:23:05,059 little one called Orchestry that is actually pretty 632 00:23:05,059 --> 00:23:07,134 amazing, but we can talk about that. I'll 633 00:23:07,134 --> 00:23:08,575 let you put a little plug in for 634 00:23:08,575 --> 00:23:09,954 your I appreciate it. 635 00:23:10,335 --> 00:23:11,855 Well, it's something and I think we all 636 00:23:11,855 --> 00:23:14,414 know this. And so even at Orchestrey, we 637 00:23:14,414 --> 00:23:16,174 do webinars. We try to do them useful 638 00:23:16,174 --> 00:23:18,355 for everybody. Mhmm. You could 639 00:23:18,734 --> 00:23:21,934 absolutely invest in training your people, digging into 640 00:23:21,934 --> 00:23:24,490 Power Platform, Power Automate, PowerShell. 641 00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:26,630 Figure out what you can do with the 642 00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:28,970 tools you already are paying for 643 00:23:29,349 --> 00:23:31,909 and the human resources you already have at 644 00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:32,649 your organization. 645 00:23:33,109 --> 00:23:35,210 Decide, is that where you wanna invest, 646 00:23:35,509 --> 00:23:37,269 or do you need those people to be 647 00:23:37,269 --> 00:23:39,565 doing something else? And it makes more sense 648 00:23:39,565 --> 00:23:40,865 to invest the dollars 649 00:23:41,325 --> 00:23:43,804 in that third party product? Yep. I think 650 00:23:43,804 --> 00:23:46,444 we know even if we've never internalized it, 651 00:23:46,684 --> 00:23:48,044 because I used to be very anti third 652 00:23:48,044 --> 00:23:50,845 party tool. If certain areas of governance are 653 00:23:50,845 --> 00:23:53,230 not automated, it's just a wish list. Yeah. 654 00:23:53,230 --> 00:23:55,470 If you If all areas of governance aren't 655 00:23:55,470 --> 00:23:57,169 automated in some trying to be generous. 656 00:23:58,349 --> 00:23:59,789 I'm trying to be like, because I'll be 657 00:23:59,789 --> 00:24:01,950 the Microsoft guy and say it. Who has 658 00:24:01,950 --> 00:24:02,690 tried to 659 00:24:03,149 --> 00:24:05,950 enforce a naming convention policy without any kind 660 00:24:05,950 --> 00:24:07,950 of automation? It works for a day? Yep. 661 00:24:07,950 --> 00:24:10,375 Yep. There there has to be, oh, yeah. 662 00:24:10,375 --> 00:24:12,535 Sure. We don't need policies. Just when we 663 00:24:12,535 --> 00:24:14,215 stop using our site, we'll go ahead and 664 00:24:14,215 --> 00:24:16,795 archive it. Oh, yeah. That's what happens. Sure 665 00:24:16,855 --> 00:24:17,674 you will 666 00:24:17,975 --> 00:24:20,775 as IT writes another check to Microsoft for 667 00:24:20,775 --> 00:24:21,434 more storage. 668 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:23,740 That was rude. I know. It was unnecessary. 669 00:24:26,679 --> 00:24:29,980 So so, yeah, it's there it's complicated. 670 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:31,579 Like, that's the thing. 671 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,480 It is it is not when we used 672 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,724 to say SharePoint was complicated, like a SharePoint 673 00:24:35,724 --> 00:24:37,825 stand up or a SharePoint migration is complicated, 674 00:24:37,884 --> 00:24:40,285 like, sure. But it ends, and you're done, 675 00:24:40,285 --> 00:24:41,724 and you move on to the next thing. 676 00:24:41,724 --> 00:24:43,884 And that's not a It's not realistic. I 677 00:24:43,884 --> 00:24:45,325 have a new phrase, a new saying for 678 00:24:45,325 --> 00:24:47,644 that now. Is it Instead send Microsoft more 679 00:24:47,644 --> 00:24:49,670 money again? Not yet. Okay. We'll get there. 680 00:24:49,670 --> 00:24:52,443 No. It's send consultants more money. Yeah. Do 681 00:24:52,443 --> 00:24:53,369 it their time. 682 00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:54,329 Oh, god. 683 00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:57,589 But it's like that it's much like an 684 00:24:57,589 --> 00:25:00,789 onion. It's layered Mhmm. And sometimes makes you 685 00:25:00,789 --> 00:25:01,035 cry. 686 00:25:03,755 --> 00:25:06,234 Genius. Where's the lie? Yeah. No. Tell me 687 00:25:06,234 --> 00:25:07,455 where's the lie. Valid. 688 00:25:07,835 --> 00:25:10,234 That that could be like the podcast title. 689 00:25:10,234 --> 00:25:11,994 It could make it sometimes it makes you 690 00:25:11,994 --> 00:25:12,674 cry. Sometimes it makes you cry. Sometimes it 691 00:25:12,674 --> 00:25:14,394 makes you cry. Like, ten minutes of will 692 00:25:14,394 --> 00:25:17,029 make people cry. So Well, it might. It 693 00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:19,190 may be some creative editing. I don't know. 694 00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:22,230 But, no, it's it is complicated, but I 695 00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:24,149 was in Atlanta at TechCon three six five 696 00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:25,829 a couple of weeks ago, and I did 697 00:25:25,829 --> 00:25:28,309 the solo version of mine and Jay's session 698 00:25:28,309 --> 00:25:30,549 of winning friends in the business. And there's 699 00:25:30,549 --> 00:25:32,315 a phrase, I say we probably said it 700 00:25:32,315 --> 00:25:33,755 too when we were doing it as a 701 00:25:33,755 --> 00:25:36,154 workshop over and over again. The way you 702 00:25:36,154 --> 00:25:38,154 implement this kind of change, the way you 703 00:25:38,154 --> 00:25:41,455 build or perhaps rebuild that business IT relationship, 704 00:25:41,755 --> 00:25:44,474 the way you implement continuous improvement, it's just 705 00:25:44,474 --> 00:25:46,289 like how you eat an elephant. It's one 706 00:25:46,289 --> 00:25:48,230 bite at a time. Have you ever heard 707 00:25:49,330 --> 00:25:51,730 that phrase? I'm just saying. Like One bite 708 00:25:51,730 --> 00:25:53,970 at a time. Who ate an elephant? Because 709 00:25:53,970 --> 00:25:56,370 someone must've taken up with that phrase. Right? 710 00:25:56,370 --> 00:25:58,894 One bite at right? And that's you've had 711 00:25:59,035 --> 00:26:01,275 these guys. Why am I here? Why did 712 00:26:01,275 --> 00:26:02,414 I sign up for this? 713 00:26:02,715 --> 00:26:04,555 You were terrible. Yes. But, 714 00:26:05,035 --> 00:26:07,595 is it what are your priorities? And your 715 00:26:07,595 --> 00:26:09,515 priorities might be be different than the business 716 00:26:09,515 --> 00:26:11,115 down the road. Right? But if you can 717 00:26:11,115 --> 00:26:13,669 at least say, these are our top, I 718 00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:15,990 don't know, you you did seven topics in 719 00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:18,390 your thing. What are your top seven things 720 00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:19,669 that you know you need to do to 721 00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:20,329 be successful? 722 00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:22,630 How are we gonna approach those things? And 723 00:26:22,630 --> 00:26:24,089 break them down into 724 00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:26,169 stretch, simple, 725 00:26:27,429 --> 00:26:30,765 steps. Steps consumable. Bite at a time steps 726 00:26:30,985 --> 00:26:33,164 and start knocking those down. I was description 727 00:26:33,225 --> 00:26:34,904 that you're gonna say the seven layers of 728 00:26:34,904 --> 00:26:36,505 an onion and you're gonna run it with 729 00:26:36,505 --> 00:26:39,625 the there. Layer of onion. Seven layers dip. 730 00:26:39,625 --> 00:26:40,285 Oh, boy. 731 00:26:41,225 --> 00:26:42,985 Seven's coming up a lot here. Okay. Well, 732 00:26:42,985 --> 00:26:45,039 listen. I only have five. So we have 733 00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:46,320 the set we've talked about seven a lot, 734 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,160 but I have five things that I think 735 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,000 cover the majority of the topics. We talked 736 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,940 about three of them in-depth. We talked about, 737 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,480 let's say group ownership. And by group ownership, 738 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,960 I'm talking about, like, change management is not 739 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,244 just IT. It's not just legal. It's not 740 00:26:59,244 --> 00:27:01,565 just communications and training. It's all of them 741 00:27:01,565 --> 00:27:03,904 working together. And then we talked about, 742 00:27:04,365 --> 00:27:06,525 that you're partnering with the business, which leads 743 00:27:06,525 --> 00:27:08,224 to the fact that this is an ongoing 744 00:27:08,285 --> 00:27:10,125 engagement. So those are, like, the three big 745 00:27:10,125 --> 00:27:12,125 buckets that we've talked about so far. The 746 00:27:12,125 --> 00:27:14,679 other two things that we haven't really talked 747 00:27:14,679 --> 00:27:17,640 about so far are the fact that you 748 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,640 you have to say yes. That is a 749 00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:22,039 Richard Harbridge said it during our one of 750 00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:24,919 our work at workshops in, Dallas. And he 751 00:27:24,919 --> 00:27:27,494 pointed out, like, if you can't say no 752 00:27:27,634 --> 00:27:29,894 all the time, you have to lead yes. 753 00:27:30,275 --> 00:27:33,474 Now can we implement the massive change they 754 00:27:33,474 --> 00:27:35,815 just asked me to implement? Like, a VIT 755 00:27:36,035 --> 00:27:37,875 person in me wants to be like, no. 756 00:27:37,875 --> 00:27:40,035 We can't do that. But the answer is, 757 00:27:40,035 --> 00:27:42,089 ultimately, yeah, we can do that. Here's the 758 00:27:42,089 --> 00:27:45,369 bill. Like, here's the Yes. Twelve month timeline 759 00:27:45,369 --> 00:27:47,289 it's gonna take. Right? So it's a yes 760 00:27:47,289 --> 00:27:49,069 and so you have to lead with yes 761 00:27:49,450 --> 00:27:52,250 if you want business to actually pay attention 762 00:27:52,250 --> 00:27:54,250 when you communicate. Yeah. And I think that's 763 00:27:54,250 --> 00:27:56,009 a huge thing that we miss. I remember 764 00:27:56,009 --> 00:27:57,825 in that workshop, the reason Richard even spoke 765 00:27:57,825 --> 00:28:00,144 up was the there was the, the help 766 00:28:00,144 --> 00:28:01,984 desk of one, and they're like, I keep 767 00:28:01,984 --> 00:28:03,744 having to say no to people, and so 768 00:28:03,744 --> 00:28:05,184 they just go buy their own software. I 769 00:28:05,184 --> 00:28:07,524 was just gonna say that. Like, that no, 770 00:28:07,744 --> 00:28:09,265 as soon as you say that, they're like, 771 00:28:09,265 --> 00:28:10,944 well, I need to. If you're not gonna 772 00:28:11,024 --> 00:28:12,670 They have to do their job. Right. I'm 773 00:28:12,670 --> 00:28:14,589 gonna go buy something else. I might go 774 00:28:14,589 --> 00:28:16,430 use a third party. Yep. We end up 775 00:28:16,430 --> 00:28:19,470 with Yep. Shadow IT because 100%. We said 776 00:28:19,470 --> 00:28:21,789 no instead of saying, yeah. We can do 777 00:28:21,789 --> 00:28:24,049 that. Let's sit down with the business. Let's 778 00:28:24,109 --> 00:28:25,470 figure it out. Let's figure out how to 779 00:28:25,470 --> 00:28:27,150 roll this out, how to implement this, how 780 00:28:27,150 --> 00:28:29,865 to do it Yeah. Yeah. Within the guidelines 781 00:28:29,865 --> 00:28:31,404 and the boundaries of our business, 782 00:28:31,705 --> 00:28:33,644 and it leads to a more secure, 783 00:28:34,025 --> 00:28:36,505 better functioning. And well, in her example, they 784 00:28:36,505 --> 00:28:39,785 were wanting to put, like, drastically customize classic 785 00:28:39,785 --> 00:28:42,285 SharePoint sites. Yeah. She's like, nope. Whereas, 786 00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:45,460 yeah, you can do that. This is how 787 00:28:45,460 --> 00:28:47,220 much it costs, and this is the expertise 788 00:28:47,220 --> 00:28:48,820 that needs to be on hand. And this 789 00:28:48,820 --> 00:28:50,980 is the process for when Microsoft changes something 790 00:28:50,980 --> 00:28:52,519 and it breaks. And 791 00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:54,900 and so, yeah, we could. If you're willing 792 00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:56,634 to take this risk and pay us this 793 00:28:56,634 --> 00:28:59,035 much money, what's your cost center's charge code? 794 00:28:59,035 --> 00:29:00,335 Yeah. And, eventually, 795 00:29:00,795 --> 00:29:03,755 you lead the business to understand in making 796 00:29:03,755 --> 00:29:05,914 their own decision of Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's 797 00:29:05,914 --> 00:29:07,434 not the best idea. Like, maybe I don't 798 00:29:07,434 --> 00:29:09,355 need the submit button to be paid, which 799 00:29:09,355 --> 00:29:11,454 I understand now is a seven month process 800 00:29:11,460 --> 00:29:13,460 and will break the next time SharePoint changes 801 00:29:13,460 --> 00:29:15,700 anything. Yep. So that is a big thing 802 00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:17,880 is the yes and because that that establishes 803 00:29:18,339 --> 00:29:22,039 trust and empathy, which is important if you're 804 00:29:22,099 --> 00:29:23,859 dealing with the conversation we're dealing with. It's 805 00:29:23,859 --> 00:29:26,419 a relationship. The other part of that and 806 00:29:26,419 --> 00:29:29,055 what works towards the saying yes is you 807 00:29:29,055 --> 00:29:31,214 have to have a feedback. So Joy actually 808 00:29:31,214 --> 00:29:32,914 talked about the communities. 809 00:29:33,375 --> 00:29:35,454 Like, communities are a great way to build 810 00:29:35,454 --> 00:29:35,954 feedback. 811 00:29:36,414 --> 00:29:39,934 But simply having a ticketing system ticketing systems 812 00:29:39,934 --> 00:29:41,315 are what you need directional. 813 00:29:41,775 --> 00:29:42,434 I know 814 00:29:42,740 --> 00:29:44,340 that you can go back to the ticket 815 00:29:44,340 --> 00:29:46,180 and you can put a comment in, and 816 00:29:46,180 --> 00:29:47,940 then they get that comment back, but that's 817 00:29:47,940 --> 00:29:48,920 not a conversation. 818 00:29:49,220 --> 00:29:51,220 Right. That's simply yeah. I read that, and 819 00:29:51,220 --> 00:29:53,080 it's stupid. That's not helpful. 820 00:29:53,619 --> 00:29:56,325 And sometimes, like, the question I have, I 821 00:29:56,325 --> 00:29:58,404 don't think it needs a ticket. I just 822 00:29:58,404 --> 00:30:00,244 wanna ask a question. Yes. Or I want 823 00:30:00,244 --> 00:30:02,484 someone to guide me on something. And help 824 00:30:02,484 --> 00:30:05,284 desks are not big scary things, but, like, 825 00:30:05,284 --> 00:30:07,284 they have a connotation to them. They're very 826 00:30:07,284 --> 00:30:07,784 transactional. 827 00:30:08,164 --> 00:30:10,244 Yeah. They're not a contact feel like the 828 00:30:10,244 --> 00:30:12,319 help desk very much has a process. 829 00:30:12,859 --> 00:30:14,700 Like, this is we have to follow these 830 00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:17,359 steps. Yep. It's not a free flowing 831 00:30:17,740 --> 00:30:19,119 Right. Forum for 832 00:30:19,579 --> 00:30:22,299 discussing a question. Who is trained? Forum for 833 00:30:22,460 --> 00:30:24,539 you broke it. You had four f's in 834 00:30:24,539 --> 00:30:26,559 a row. Free flowing Forum. 835 00:30:27,164 --> 00:30:27,985 From four 836 00:30:28,765 --> 00:30:29,265 Feedback. 837 00:30:32,684 --> 00:30:34,365 Joy came up with a much better Joy 838 00:30:34,365 --> 00:30:37,505 was asking for Alice. I'm staying on target. 839 00:30:38,684 --> 00:30:40,705 Staying on target. Someone has to. 840 00:30:41,490 --> 00:30:42,529 That's why we put her in the middle 841 00:30:42,529 --> 00:30:45,490 to keep us going. Yes. Yeah. Yes. But 842 00:30:45,490 --> 00:30:47,890 pop quiz. Has the help desk been trained 843 00:30:47,890 --> 00:30:50,529 on the technology they're supporting? Probably I mean, 844 00:30:50,529 --> 00:30:52,130 they have materials that tell them how to 845 00:30:52,130 --> 00:30:54,130 do things. Learn.microsoft.com? 846 00:30:54,130 --> 00:30:56,045 No. Someone sent them the link to the 847 00:30:56,045 --> 00:30:57,664 learn article. Right? I mean, 848 00:30:58,045 --> 00:31:00,045 it's not Yes. So if I need to 849 00:31:00,045 --> 00:31:02,205 ask a theoretical question about the best way 850 00:31:02,205 --> 00:31:04,205 to do something, it's not fair to put 851 00:31:04,205 --> 00:31:06,205 that help desk tech in that position. Yep. 852 00:31:06,205 --> 00:31:07,710 They're not equipped for it. And then everybody 853 00:31:07,710 --> 00:31:09,309 else in the back of ITs are going, 854 00:31:09,309 --> 00:31:12,190 not it. Yep. Yeah. So got it. It's 855 00:31:12,509 --> 00:31:14,849 So that feedback loop, it needs to be 856 00:31:14,910 --> 00:31:15,410 multimodal. 857 00:31:15,950 --> 00:31:18,190 Right? Mhmm. Obviously, we're not telling you to 858 00:31:18,190 --> 00:31:20,130 get rid of your help desk technical system. 859 00:31:20,190 --> 00:31:22,974 But adding a community if you can, whether 860 00:31:22,974 --> 00:31:26,035 that's in Teams or in Viva Engage or 861 00:31:26,174 --> 00:31:28,974 some other mechanism, just giving people the ability 862 00:31:28,974 --> 00:31:31,715 to share with each other and ask questions 863 00:31:31,775 --> 00:31:32,755 is huge. 864 00:31:33,215 --> 00:31:36,309 Another thing you can do is, especially in 865 00:31:36,309 --> 00:31:38,710 today's day and age, create a help desk 866 00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:39,210 bot. 867 00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:40,330 What? 868 00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:43,830 An agent source. Use the technology. Right? Like, 869 00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:46,230 it's so easy to create an agent right 870 00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:48,394 now and give it a knowledge source. And 871 00:31:48,394 --> 00:31:49,914 then if you do it in something like 872 00:31:49,914 --> 00:31:52,954 Copilot Studio, you can actually add a trigger 873 00:31:52,954 --> 00:31:54,954 so that or an action is the technical 874 00:31:54,954 --> 00:31:57,194 term. So that when someone says this isn't 875 00:31:57,194 --> 00:31:59,274 answering my question, please open a ticket, it 876 00:31:59,274 --> 00:32:02,309 can actually open the ticket for you. So 877 00:32:02,309 --> 00:32:05,029 using the technology that is available to you 878 00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:08,250 to not just increase your capability, but decrease 879 00:32:08,309 --> 00:32:11,029 the amount of stuff you're dealing with that 880 00:32:11,029 --> 00:32:13,609 you shouldn't with becomes part of that feedback 881 00:32:13,954 --> 00:32:15,714 mechanism. Like, go to the bot, ask your 882 00:32:15,714 --> 00:32:18,115 questions, say thanks. That was helpful. Hey. You 883 00:32:18,115 --> 00:32:20,194 should note that an employee said that was 884 00:32:20,194 --> 00:32:21,714 helpful. You should have something in the back 885 00:32:21,714 --> 00:32:24,115 end tracking that interaction. And so all of 886 00:32:24,115 --> 00:32:27,240 that, I think, becomes part of, of heightened 887 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,279 people. Oh, yeah. I agree. 100%. Yeah. Alright. 888 00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:30,779 Goodbye. 889 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,240 If you enjoyed the podcast, go leave us 890 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,480 a five star rating in iTunes. It helps 891 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,160 to get the word out so more IT 892 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,305 pros can learn about Office three sixty five 893 00:32:41,305 --> 00:32:41,884 and Azure. 894 00:32:42,505 --> 00:32:44,184 If you have any questions you want us 895 00:32:44,184 --> 00:32:46,345 to address on the show, or feedback about 896 00:32:46,345 --> 00:32:48,664 the show, feel free to reach out via 897 00:32:48,664 --> 00:32:50,845 our website, Twitter, or Facebook. 898 00:32:51,224 --> 00:32:53,065 Thanks again for listening, and have a great 899 00:32:53,065 --> 00:32:53,565 day.