1 00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:06,879 Welcome to episode 402 of the Microsoft Cloud 2 00:00:06,879 --> 00:00:11,539 IT Pro podcast recorded live 05/16/2025. 3 00:00:11,919 --> 00:00:14,240 This is a show about Microsoft three sixty 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,394 five and Azure from the perspective of IT 5 00:00:16,394 --> 00:00:18,635 pros and end users, where we discuss a 6 00:00:18,635 --> 00:00:20,954 topic or recent news and how it relates 7 00:00:20,954 --> 00:00:21,614 to you. 8 00:00:21,914 --> 00:00:24,394 This week, Ben and Scott have Andrew Connell 9 00:00:24,394 --> 00:00:25,134 or AC 10 00:00:25,515 --> 00:00:27,754 back on the show to loop back into 11 00:00:27,754 --> 00:00:31,239 some topics from episode 400 around custom agents, 12 00:00:31,300 --> 00:00:33,399 but from a bit of a developer perspective. 13 00:00:33,780 --> 00:00:35,239 They discuss some differences 14 00:00:35,619 --> 00:00:38,420 besides price in the various billing models and 15 00:00:38,420 --> 00:00:38,920 limitations 16 00:00:39,299 --> 00:00:41,879 around creation of the semantic index for Copilot. 17 00:00:42,340 --> 00:00:45,114 They also discuss how Copilot uses the semantic 18 00:00:45,114 --> 00:00:47,914 index and access control lists for security when 19 00:00:47,914 --> 00:00:51,114 retrieving your content. Another topic of conversation is 20 00:00:51,114 --> 00:00:54,494 potential issues you may encounter around large files, 21 00:00:55,034 --> 00:00:58,155 ASPX pages, and missing metadata when it comes 22 00:00:58,155 --> 00:00:58,734 to Copilot 23 00:00:59,170 --> 00:01:01,969 responses, as well as potential workarounds by using 24 00:01:01,969 --> 00:01:03,350 Azure AI search. 25 00:01:03,809 --> 00:01:05,890 Finally, they wrap up the show by talking 26 00:01:05,890 --> 00:01:07,810 about some topics you may want to pay 27 00:01:07,810 --> 00:01:11,189 attention to from this week's Microsoft Build Conference. 28 00:01:11,569 --> 00:01:13,189 Let's dive into the show. 29 00:01:15,215 --> 00:01:17,215 For all of you listening, it's not just 30 00:01:17,215 --> 00:01:19,295 Scott Knight today. There's a new I would 31 00:01:19,295 --> 00:01:21,215 say a new voice. It's kind of an 32 00:01:21,215 --> 00:01:22,814 old voice. I don't know how many times 33 00:01:24,334 --> 00:01:25,075 Wow. Just 34 00:01:25,579 --> 00:01:28,540 digging that lightning. Out swinging today. It's a 35 00:01:28,540 --> 00:01:29,359 Friday morning. 36 00:01:29,739 --> 00:01:32,379 Said, we have a popular repeat guest. Andrew 37 00:01:32,379 --> 00:01:34,939 Connell's back on the show. But then, no, 38 00:01:34,939 --> 00:01:35,979 you just went to the end of it. 39 00:01:36,060 --> 00:01:37,900 Just said it all yeah. I shoulda had 40 00:01:37,900 --> 00:01:39,439 you kick it off then, Scott. 41 00:01:40,405 --> 00:01:42,245 Now I'm all we're we're all off today. 42 00:01:42,245 --> 00:01:43,844 This is what happens on a Friday morning 43 00:01:43,844 --> 00:01:46,165 when it's been a long week. But, yeah, 44 00:01:46,165 --> 00:01:47,685 we do have Andrew Connell back on the 45 00:01:47,685 --> 00:01:50,245 show to talk more about CoPilot agents. So 46 00:01:50,245 --> 00:01:51,685 I don't know how many times we've had 47 00:01:51,685 --> 00:01:53,685 you on now, Casey. It's probably like four 48 00:01:53,685 --> 00:01:55,590 or five. Has it been that many? I 49 00:01:55,590 --> 00:01:56,790 know it's, like, one or two. I didn't 50 00:01:56,790 --> 00:01:57,510 know I didn't know if it's been I 51 00:01:57,510 --> 00:01:59,430 don't know. But we're go hey. It's a 52 00:01:59,430 --> 00:02:01,670 long time listener. Let's just say second or 53 00:02:01,670 --> 00:02:04,090 third or fourth time caller. Yeah. Exactly. 54 00:02:04,469 --> 00:02:07,030 A popular that popular caller on our show 55 00:02:07,030 --> 00:02:08,490 that just keeps coming back. 56 00:02:09,110 --> 00:02:11,025 But, no, we did, like, episode 57 00:02:11,564 --> 00:02:13,564 I think it was was it 3 no. 58 00:02:13,564 --> 00:02:16,064 It was 400 was the Copilot agent once. 59 00:02:16,125 --> 00:02:17,724 And you were listening to it, and you 60 00:02:17,724 --> 00:02:19,405 sent us a message and said, hey, Ben. 61 00:02:19,405 --> 00:02:21,405 Let's talk about some more stuff around Copilot 62 00:02:21,405 --> 00:02:22,384 agents that 63 00:02:22,750 --> 00:02:24,189 you've come to discover. And I would say 64 00:02:24,189 --> 00:02:26,989 even from a developer's perspective, like, Scott and 65 00:02:26,989 --> 00:02:29,150 I are very IT pro, which everybody knows, 66 00:02:29,150 --> 00:02:30,989 and you are very developer. But I think 67 00:02:30,989 --> 00:02:33,169 that also gives you a new perspective sometimes 68 00:02:33,310 --> 00:02:34,989 on how some of the stuff works under 69 00:02:34,989 --> 00:02:37,455 the covers. You uncover some stuff. You're like, 70 00:02:37,455 --> 00:02:39,135 Ben and Scott, let's talk about some other 71 00:02:39,135 --> 00:02:39,955 stuff that 72 00:02:40,335 --> 00:02:42,254 relates to that. So we're gonna take a 73 00:02:42,254 --> 00:02:44,435 little bit of a journey adding some 74 00:02:44,974 --> 00:02:47,455 color, some additional information to what we discussed 75 00:02:47,455 --> 00:02:50,335 on episode 400. So if you haven't listened 76 00:02:50,335 --> 00:02:51,814 to that one, you may even wanna listen 77 00:02:51,814 --> 00:02:53,550 to that one first. And then even maybe 78 00:02:53,550 --> 00:02:55,310 dive into some of the development stuff with 79 00:02:55,310 --> 00:02:57,949 Copilot agents and how you can expand Copilot 80 00:02:57,949 --> 00:02:59,409 agents even more from 81 00:02:59,789 --> 00:03:01,469 if you have access to a developer, if 82 00:03:01,469 --> 00:03:03,629 you are a developer listening to the show. 83 00:03:03,629 --> 00:03:05,655 Yeah. That sounds great. But yeah. You guys, 84 00:03:05,655 --> 00:03:07,194 first of all, like, congratulations 85 00:03:07,495 --> 00:03:09,995 on 400 episodes doing this for eight years. 86 00:03:10,294 --> 00:03:11,754 That's a huge accomplishment. 87 00:03:12,055 --> 00:03:13,735 It is I've done eight I've done a 88 00:03:13,735 --> 00:03:15,655 podcast for that long and that many episodes, 89 00:03:15,655 --> 00:03:17,254 and I will I know how big how 90 00:03:17,254 --> 00:03:19,449 much effort it is and how how much, 91 00:03:19,449 --> 00:03:21,289 like, staying power you've done with it. So 92 00:03:21,289 --> 00:03:23,050 huge kudos to you guys for doing this. 93 00:03:23,050 --> 00:03:24,489 I remember when you started this, and it's 94 00:03:24,489 --> 00:03:26,330 like it's really I I was listening to 95 00:03:26,330 --> 00:03:28,250 this on your episode 400 on the way 96 00:03:28,250 --> 00:03:29,610 to the airport, and I, like, did a 97 00:03:29,610 --> 00:03:30,969 note to myself. I'm like, oh my god. 98 00:03:30,969 --> 00:03:33,129 Gotta congratulate these guys. That's freaking awesome. I 99 00:03:33,129 --> 00:03:34,784 didn't realize they were at 400. And then 100 00:03:34,784 --> 00:03:35,664 I listened to the rest of the episode, 101 00:03:35,664 --> 00:03:36,625 and I was like, I'm gonna get to 102 00:03:36,625 --> 00:03:37,905 the airport, and I gotta send a loom 103 00:03:37,905 --> 00:03:39,504 over to to to you guys and be 104 00:03:39,504 --> 00:03:40,864 like, I got some stuff I wanna talk 105 00:03:40,864 --> 00:03:41,364 about. 106 00:03:41,985 --> 00:03:44,465 Yeah. Well, thanks. And thanks for encouraging us 107 00:03:44,465 --> 00:03:45,985 to start it because I was gonna say 108 00:03:45,985 --> 00:03:47,800 you're one of the catalysts. So Yeah. There 109 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,039 you go. You, like, propelled us into doing 110 00:03:50,039 --> 00:03:51,560 this. You're like, you really should do it. 111 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:52,840 And then you got me to go chase 112 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:54,520 down Scott and convince Scott to do it 113 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,479 with me. So thank you. And CJ as 114 00:03:57,479 --> 00:03:59,560 well. You guys were both an inspiration to 115 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,655 starting it episode one eight years ago. I 116 00:04:02,655 --> 00:04:04,814 missed doing it, and I'm looking forward to 117 00:04:04,814 --> 00:04:06,734 starting another one by the time this goes 118 00:04:06,734 --> 00:04:08,174 live. I think I might have it might 119 00:04:08,174 --> 00:04:10,014 be live by then, so we'll see. Oh, 120 00:04:10,014 --> 00:04:12,094 alright. Keep our eyes out for us. Yeah. 121 00:04:12,094 --> 00:04:13,294 Put a link. We'll throw it in the 122 00:04:13,294 --> 00:04:15,830 show notes. Alright. Sounds good. Yeah. Where do 123 00:04:15,830 --> 00:04:17,850 you wanna start? Some of the stuff that 124 00:04:17,990 --> 00:04:19,589 we talked about. I don't know. There were 125 00:04:19,670 --> 00:04:21,269 there's kind of a couple things. I don't 126 00:04:21,269 --> 00:04:22,709 know if we wanna start with some of 127 00:04:22,709 --> 00:04:25,269 the stuff around deploying it, different models for 128 00:04:25,269 --> 00:04:27,050 pricing it, or if you wanna start with 129 00:04:27,110 --> 00:04:28,949 some of the other topics and what's going 130 00:04:28,949 --> 00:04:30,915 on in the background. Where if you were 131 00:04:30,915 --> 00:04:32,834 gonna explain this to somebody, where would you 132 00:04:32,834 --> 00:04:34,435 start that journey? Doctor. Let me build off 133 00:04:34,435 --> 00:04:36,274 what you guys said in episode 400 because 134 00:04:36,274 --> 00:04:37,714 there was a few things that I thought 135 00:04:37,714 --> 00:04:40,035 were not that you missed anything, but there 136 00:04:40,035 --> 00:04:41,634 was a few extra things that I've seen 137 00:04:41,634 --> 00:04:43,014 that when I talk to a customer 138 00:04:43,314 --> 00:04:45,475 that it's a it's like a you should 139 00:04:45,475 --> 00:04:46,214 know this 140 00:04:46,649 --> 00:04:49,129 before you go into things. So one of 141 00:04:49,129 --> 00:04:50,410 them was you guys were talking a little 142 00:04:50,410 --> 00:04:51,850 bit about the billing, and there was, like, 143 00:04:51,850 --> 00:04:54,410 the difference between $30 per user per month, 144 00:04:54,410 --> 00:04:56,009 or do I spend $20.200 145 00:04:56,009 --> 00:04:58,649 for 25,000 messages? Doctor. Yep. Doctor. And or 146 00:04:58,649 --> 00:05:00,250 do I go with the consumption model and 147 00:05:00,250 --> 00:05:02,204 pay a penny per message? Of course, all 148 00:05:02,204 --> 00:05:03,024 USD pricing. 149 00:05:03,404 --> 00:05:05,404 Sorry. All my numbers are USD pricing. I'm 150 00:05:05,404 --> 00:05:06,925 sure you could buy this outside of outside 151 00:05:06,925 --> 00:05:08,365 of The US. Doctor. Yeah. Doctor. There's one 152 00:05:08,365 --> 00:05:09,964 thing that I see when people do that 153 00:05:09,964 --> 00:05:11,805 that is a huge blind spot that a 154 00:05:11,805 --> 00:05:13,164 lot of people don't realize. And if they 155 00:05:13,164 --> 00:05:14,784 go with the consumption model first, 156 00:05:15,245 --> 00:05:18,519 they will have this copilot sucks type attitude 157 00:05:18,519 --> 00:05:19,479 to it because it's like, I thought it 158 00:05:19,479 --> 00:05:20,680 was supposed to be grounded in all my 159 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,680 data. So there's there's two aspects to it. 160 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,519 So first of all, one thing to understand, 161 00:05:24,519 --> 00:05:25,639 and I think you guys talked a little 162 00:05:25,639 --> 00:05:27,879 bit about this, is that when Microsoft says 163 00:05:27,879 --> 00:05:30,279 that it is grounded in your data and 164 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,654 they always point to Microsoft Graph, that is 165 00:05:32,894 --> 00:05:35,795 kind of true. I mean, it's not incorrect. 166 00:05:36,014 --> 00:05:37,694 But to be a little bit more technical 167 00:05:37,694 --> 00:05:40,175 about it is, like in SharePoint, you put 168 00:05:40,175 --> 00:05:42,175 content in SharePoint, and then for search to 169 00:05:42,175 --> 00:05:45,055 work in SharePoint, there's an indexer that creates 170 00:05:45,055 --> 00:05:46,449 an index so so that when you do 171 00:05:46,449 --> 00:05:48,769 execute a keyword search, it doesn't look at 172 00:05:48,769 --> 00:05:50,370 the content in SharePoint. It looks at the 173 00:05:50,370 --> 00:05:52,449 index, finds the results, and it gives you 174 00:05:52,449 --> 00:05:53,970 gives you the results and it's links to 175 00:05:53,970 --> 00:05:56,550 the content in SharePoint. Yep. So that's how 176 00:05:56,769 --> 00:05:59,490 Copilot is grounding your information. So it's not 177 00:05:59,569 --> 00:06:01,410 it's doing a similar model. What it does 178 00:06:01,410 --> 00:06:04,904 is it gets data from Microsoft Graph about 179 00:06:04,904 --> 00:06:06,824 you and your organization. So that's data from 180 00:06:06,824 --> 00:06:08,045 SharePoint, data from 181 00:06:08,425 --> 00:06:11,944 chat messages, Teams transcripts, meeting transcripts, all that 182 00:06:11,944 --> 00:06:13,384 kind of stuff. And what it does is 183 00:06:13,384 --> 00:06:15,225 it does another kind of indexing called a 184 00:06:15,225 --> 00:06:18,370 semantic index, which is not keyword index, but 185 00:06:18,370 --> 00:06:20,290 a semantic index is more like let's just 186 00:06:20,290 --> 00:06:22,370 say, AI based index that is a little 187 00:06:22,370 --> 00:06:24,610 bit more these words are closer to these 188 00:06:24,610 --> 00:06:26,290 words, and it's just better for, like, AI 189 00:06:26,290 --> 00:06:28,689 based queries. What Microsoft is doing is that 190 00:06:28,689 --> 00:06:30,285 when they look at that content in graph, 191 00:06:30,365 --> 00:06:32,605 when they do a semantic index of it, 192 00:06:32,605 --> 00:06:34,605 they are storing that in what's called the 193 00:06:34,605 --> 00:06:36,685 semantic index. So, that kind of sits on 194 00:06:36,685 --> 00:06:39,084 top of Graph so that when Microsoft when 195 00:06:39,084 --> 00:06:40,464 you run a prompt 196 00:06:40,764 --> 00:06:41,584 against Copilot, 197 00:06:41,964 --> 00:06:45,770 Copilot is looking up content from the semantic 198 00:06:45,770 --> 00:06:48,730 index to get content that's relevant to you 199 00:06:48,730 --> 00:06:49,710 and your organization 200 00:06:50,170 --> 00:06:50,910 to ground 201 00:06:51,210 --> 00:06:52,029 the response 202 00:06:52,410 --> 00:06:54,170 in your data and not just like the 203 00:06:54,170 --> 00:06:56,410 foundational knowledge that the model has that like 204 00:06:56,410 --> 00:06:56,910 ChatGPT 205 00:06:57,745 --> 00:06:59,504 can leverage from, like, the the the training 206 00:06:59,504 --> 00:07:02,064 from the different models. Okay. So Office three 207 00:07:02,064 --> 00:07:04,785 sixty five search uses search index. Copilot uses 208 00:07:04,785 --> 00:07:06,884 semantic index. You've got these two indexes. 209 00:07:07,264 --> 00:07:09,264 That's correct. Yeah. And and and it's important 210 00:07:09,264 --> 00:07:11,730 to, like, call out, like, semantic index is 211 00:07:11,970 --> 00:07:14,850 technically generated with information from the graph. So 212 00:07:14,850 --> 00:07:17,410 you're, like, layers of layers in here. And 213 00:07:17,410 --> 00:07:18,949 and I think it gets a little confusing 214 00:07:19,009 --> 00:07:20,310 to customers because 215 00:07:20,770 --> 00:07:23,910 we maybe throw out terms like AI training, 216 00:07:24,050 --> 00:07:26,985 AI fine tuning, AI inferencing. Like, the reality 217 00:07:26,985 --> 00:07:29,545 is most folks aren't out there doing, like, 218 00:07:29,545 --> 00:07:31,705 AI training typically in the terms you're hearing 219 00:07:31,705 --> 00:07:33,464 maybe, like, I don't know, me, like, Band 220 00:07:33,464 --> 00:07:35,464 Aid about. Like, there there's only so many 221 00:07:35,464 --> 00:07:38,185 open AIs and anthropics and and things out 222 00:07:38,185 --> 00:07:40,205 there that are training these foundational models. 223 00:07:40,660 --> 00:07:42,180 So more and more, I think what I 224 00:07:42,180 --> 00:07:44,180 see in in my day to day is 225 00:07:44,180 --> 00:07:45,560 kind of folks who are 226 00:07:46,660 --> 00:07:49,639 leveraging existing models, and they're effectively 227 00:07:50,100 --> 00:07:50,600 into 228 00:07:51,060 --> 00:07:53,939 some type of augmentation, be it rag that's 229 00:07:53,939 --> 00:07:54,600 out there, 230 00:07:54,925 --> 00:07:56,225 be it leveraging systems 231 00:07:56,605 --> 00:07:58,305 like m three sixty five Copilot 232 00:07:58,845 --> 00:08:01,165 that then build on graph, build on semantic 233 00:08:01,165 --> 00:08:03,085 index, but then can also do rag and 234 00:08:03,085 --> 00:08:06,305 things like that for further grounding, like contextually 235 00:08:06,605 --> 00:08:08,769 in the moment versus, oh, hey. I was 236 00:08:08,769 --> 00:08:11,169 able to fine tune this model or push 237 00:08:11,169 --> 00:08:12,550 out this specific piece 238 00:08:13,089 --> 00:08:13,669 of organizational 239 00:08:13,970 --> 00:08:16,050 knowledge and and kind of do a little 240 00:08:16,050 --> 00:08:17,430 mini retraining run 241 00:08:17,889 --> 00:08:19,889 along the way. So it's all these layers 242 00:08:19,889 --> 00:08:21,555 upon layers in there. And it's funny to 243 00:08:21,555 --> 00:08:22,754 me how it all comes back to, like, 244 00:08:22,754 --> 00:08:24,615 the old days of SharePoint and, like, information 245 00:08:24,675 --> 00:08:26,754 architecture. Like, how did you organize this stuff? 246 00:08:26,754 --> 00:08:28,355 How did you permission it? How how did 247 00:08:28,355 --> 00:08:29,875 that look? And then you and then we're 248 00:08:29,875 --> 00:08:31,955 back to the same thing of, like, now 249 00:08:31,955 --> 00:08:33,475 it's not just figuring out, like, hey. Why 250 00:08:33,475 --> 00:08:35,715 did that search result surface in my search 251 00:08:35,715 --> 00:08:37,679 index because the permissions were wrong on that 252 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:39,440 SharePoint site or that list or whatever it 253 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,519 was. But now it's, oh my gosh. Where 254 00:08:41,519 --> 00:08:43,600 else was that thing potentially off the rails? 255 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,240 Oh, over here in Teams, because it was 256 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,159 actually in a Teams message, but it was 257 00:08:48,159 --> 00:08:50,284 in a group Teams message that I had 258 00:08:50,284 --> 00:08:52,044 going with some other folks that were out 259 00:08:52,044 --> 00:08:53,884 there. And because The Graph is able to 260 00:08:53,884 --> 00:08:54,944 surface that information, 261 00:08:55,245 --> 00:08:56,845 all of a sudden, you end up in 262 00:08:56,845 --> 00:08:57,345 this 263 00:08:57,725 --> 00:08:59,404 in this little bit of a a weird 264 00:08:59,404 --> 00:09:00,924 spot. And then you combine that with the 265 00:09:00,924 --> 00:09:02,850 fuzziness of I I don't know if you 266 00:09:02,850 --> 00:09:04,610 ever do this. I I go into teams 267 00:09:04,610 --> 00:09:06,610 all the time just or Copilot the app 268 00:09:06,610 --> 00:09:09,090 or Copilot in teams, and I say, hey. 269 00:09:09,090 --> 00:09:11,809 Search my messages for the last two weeks 270 00:09:11,809 --> 00:09:14,070 or the last six months and 271 00:09:14,625 --> 00:09:16,785 summarize blah blah blah that I discussed with, 272 00:09:16,785 --> 00:09:18,945 you you know, these people. Well, you can 273 00:09:18,945 --> 00:09:21,504 tell Copilot that it doesn't actually know how 274 00:09:21,504 --> 00:09:23,745 to execute a time based search based on 275 00:09:23,745 --> 00:09:25,745 your messages. So, like, what it pulls back 276 00:09:25,745 --> 00:09:27,745 could be completely random, could be outside the 277 00:09:27,745 --> 00:09:29,539 boundaries of that. It was all just what 278 00:09:29,539 --> 00:09:31,539 was available to it in in its grounding 279 00:09:31,539 --> 00:09:33,379 knowledge. Doctor. Right. Right. And I like, the 280 00:09:33,379 --> 00:09:34,579 way I like to the way I explain 281 00:09:34,579 --> 00:09:35,319 this to customers 282 00:09:35,620 --> 00:09:37,220 is that, like, think about if you are 283 00:09:37,220 --> 00:09:39,379 doing your taxes for your business, right? If 284 00:09:39,379 --> 00:09:41,059 you sit down, you have a question for 285 00:09:41,059 --> 00:09:43,514 an accountant, that the accountant is somebody you 286 00:09:43,514 --> 00:09:45,715 just you just hired, they have all of 287 00:09:45,715 --> 00:09:48,195 the knowledge they've learned from being trained as 288 00:09:48,195 --> 00:09:50,215 an accountant when they were in college, right, 289 00:09:50,434 --> 00:09:52,514 and just factual stuff on how QuickBooks works. 290 00:09:52,514 --> 00:09:54,529 QuickBooks works. They're gonna give you an answer 291 00:09:54,529 --> 00:09:56,209 to whatever your problem or whatever your question 292 00:09:56,209 --> 00:09:57,429 is. That's like using ChatGPT. 293 00:09:57,809 --> 00:10:00,370 What's using Microsoft three sixty five Copilot is 294 00:10:00,370 --> 00:10:02,129 he has that information or she has that 295 00:10:02,129 --> 00:10:04,529 information, but they also have all of your 296 00:10:04,529 --> 00:10:07,455 previous tax returns, and there are have access 297 00:10:07,455 --> 00:10:09,615 to your QuickBooks. So now they have context 298 00:10:09,615 --> 00:10:12,414 about you that they can add to the 299 00:10:12,414 --> 00:10:14,575 actual question. That's what the semantic index is. 300 00:10:14,575 --> 00:10:16,754 It's context about you and your organization. 301 00:10:17,375 --> 00:10:19,774 Technically, there's two semantic indexes. There's one for 302 00:10:19,774 --> 00:10:22,549 users and there's one for organizational data. So, 303 00:10:22,549 --> 00:10:24,230 but Copilot figures out which one it's gonna 304 00:10:24,230 --> 00:10:26,070 go through and grab. So, there's a few 305 00:10:26,070 --> 00:10:27,909 things about that though that the semantic index 306 00:10:27,909 --> 00:10:29,049 has some interesting 307 00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:31,750 aspects to it that people need to understand 308 00:10:31,750 --> 00:10:34,070 I think that really helps in understanding why 309 00:10:34,070 --> 00:10:36,149 Copilot can or can't do something. One of 310 00:10:36,149 --> 00:10:38,455 those things is around the billing. So, I 311 00:10:38,455 --> 00:10:40,215 talked about a second ago the difference between 312 00:10:40,215 --> 00:10:41,894 you can start with $30 per user per 313 00:10:41,894 --> 00:10:43,495 month. Doctor. Yep. Doctor. It's like the all 314 00:10:43,495 --> 00:10:45,735 you can eat plan, then there's the 25,000 315 00:10:45,735 --> 00:10:47,495 messages for $200 316 00:10:47,495 --> 00:10:49,980 a month, or it's paid per the message 317 00:10:50,059 --> 00:10:52,220 down on the consumption or metered plan. If 318 00:10:52,220 --> 00:10:55,179 you're a brand new customer to Copilot and 319 00:10:55,179 --> 00:10:57,500 you decide, I'm going to start this a 320 00:10:57,500 --> 00:10:59,100 little bit easy. I don't wanna do the 321 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:01,019 $30 per user per month with a twelve 322 00:11:01,019 --> 00:11:03,899 month commitment, so one license is a $360 323 00:11:03,899 --> 00:11:06,085 commitment for a year. If you say, I 324 00:11:06,085 --> 00:11:08,245 don't wanna do that. Instead, I wanna do 325 00:11:08,245 --> 00:11:09,924 the consumption model and kind of ease my 326 00:11:09,924 --> 00:11:11,684 way into it. Here's the thing that people 327 00:11:11,684 --> 00:11:14,004 don't realize, and Microsoft does not document very 328 00:11:14,004 --> 00:11:16,804 well, if at all. You don't get a 329 00:11:16,804 --> 00:11:20,440 semantic index until there is at least one 330 00:11:20,500 --> 00:11:21,000 active 331 00:11:21,379 --> 00:11:24,019 Microsoft three sixty five Copilot license, the $30 332 00:11:24,019 --> 00:11:26,340 per user per month. So if you have 333 00:11:26,340 --> 00:11:28,600 10 employees and you want them using Copilot, 334 00:11:28,980 --> 00:11:31,139 if you just get the consumption model, all 335 00:11:31,139 --> 00:11:34,595 Copilot has is the all Copilot has access 336 00:11:34,595 --> 00:11:36,595 to is basically the same stuff that you 337 00:11:36,595 --> 00:11:39,154 get from ChattGPT, just the foundational knowledge from 338 00:11:39,154 --> 00:11:41,315 the training model. If you're a developer and 339 00:11:41,315 --> 00:11:42,595 you go through and extend it and do 340 00:11:42,595 --> 00:11:44,434 things like what you guys talked about, like 341 00:11:44,434 --> 00:11:46,379 adding actions to it, where you can implement 342 00:11:46,379 --> 00:11:48,059 the the RAG pattern, the retrieval of meta 343 00:11:48,059 --> 00:11:50,700 generation pattern where you where Copilot can look 344 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:52,540 at your query or your prompt and say, 345 00:11:52,540 --> 00:11:55,100 oh, I need this extra data from this 346 00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:57,420 other endpoint over, like, in Dataverse. I can 347 00:11:57,420 --> 00:11:59,434 pull that stuff in, but it doesn't have 348 00:11:59,434 --> 00:12:01,674 any it won't have any knowledge about your 349 00:12:01,674 --> 00:12:03,774 chats, your your transcripts, 350 00:12:04,154 --> 00:12:06,074 your calendar, your meetings, stuff like that. It 351 00:12:06,074 --> 00:12:08,235 won't have that context because the semantic index 352 00:12:08,235 --> 00:12:10,414 does not exist. It is not until 353 00:12:10,794 --> 00:12:13,195 you decide to spend, I will have one 354 00:12:13,195 --> 00:12:15,809 person get that $30 per user per month 355 00:12:15,809 --> 00:12:17,809 of my 10 employees, and then I'll do 356 00:12:17,809 --> 00:12:20,450 consumption, and it completely changes the experience for 357 00:12:20,450 --> 00:12:23,009 everybody that has that now has that consumption 358 00:12:23,009 --> 00:12:25,809 model in your organization. So now it's like 359 00:12:25,809 --> 00:12:26,850 a lot of people look at this and 360 00:12:26,850 --> 00:12:28,565 go, like, Copilot sucks. It's no better than 361 00:12:28,565 --> 00:12:30,485 ChatGPT. It doesn't have any it's not grounding 362 00:12:30,485 --> 00:12:31,845 any of my any of its knowledge and 363 00:12:31,845 --> 00:12:33,764 stuff that's with my organization. It's because it 364 00:12:33,764 --> 00:12:35,924 doesn't have the semantic index, the trigger to 365 00:12:35,924 --> 00:12:37,784 create it, one act of life. So 366 00:12:38,164 --> 00:12:40,004 that's bizarre. So because I've never tried this 367 00:12:40,004 --> 00:12:41,940 with consumption models. So if I went in, 368 00:12:42,019 --> 00:12:43,539 bought one of the consumption model or the 369 00:12:43,539 --> 00:12:46,279 message pack, went into, like, Teams chat Copilot 370 00:12:46,340 --> 00:12:48,580 and said, go give me this information about 371 00:12:48,580 --> 00:12:50,899 my email or people I email or documents 372 00:12:50,899 --> 00:12:52,659 in SharePoint, it's not gonna return any of 373 00:12:52,659 --> 00:12:54,980 that. I can't speak for certain about the 374 00:12:54,980 --> 00:12:55,779 25,000 375 00:12:55,860 --> 00:12:57,915 the message packs. Okay. But I can say 376 00:12:57,915 --> 00:12:59,995 on the consumption model, yes, that is correct. 377 00:12:59,995 --> 00:13:01,995 The penny per message one. The the penny 378 00:13:01,995 --> 00:13:04,235 per message one does not turn on a 379 00:13:04,235 --> 00:13:06,575 semantic index. The thing that turns it on 380 00:13:06,795 --> 00:13:08,975 is the the $30 per user per month 381 00:13:09,035 --> 00:13:11,990 license. A message pack might also do that. 382 00:13:12,129 --> 00:13:14,289 I think it does, but I can't be 383 00:13:14,289 --> 00:13:15,889 certain on that. Again, Microsoft doesn't do a 384 00:13:15,889 --> 00:13:17,490 good job of documenting this. You gotta find 385 00:13:17,490 --> 00:13:19,009 the right person and catch them at the 386 00:13:19,009 --> 00:13:21,009 right time and and get the answer. I 387 00:13:21,009 --> 00:13:22,610 have not that part I haven't I don't 388 00:13:22,610 --> 00:13:25,144 have a solid answer on. My belief is 389 00:13:25,144 --> 00:13:27,065 that a message pack does also do that 390 00:13:27,065 --> 00:13:28,745 because a message pack is also gonna have, 391 00:13:28,745 --> 00:13:30,024 like they also talk about if you have 392 00:13:30,024 --> 00:13:31,544 a message pack, it's gonna be, like, fifteen 393 00:13:31,544 --> 00:13:33,065 fifteen messages just to go through and ground 394 00:13:33,065 --> 00:13:34,504 data because that's how much a query is 395 00:13:34,504 --> 00:13:37,404 gonna cost to the semantic index. Right. So 396 00:13:37,549 --> 00:13:40,029 I I think so, but I'm not certain. 397 00:13:40,029 --> 00:13:42,990 And it's I'm assuming maybe. Again, this is 398 00:13:42,990 --> 00:13:45,309 not anything that's documented having to do with 399 00:13:45,309 --> 00:13:47,649 that cost. If you're paying $200 a month, 400 00:13:47,789 --> 00:13:49,549 that probably helps to offset the cost of 401 00:13:49,549 --> 00:13:52,029 building the semantic index. $30 a month, same 402 00:13:52,029 --> 00:13:53,615 thing. If you're just paying a penny per 403 00:13:53,615 --> 00:13:55,134 message, you're like, how do we recover the 404 00:13:55,134 --> 00:13:57,934 cost of having the semantic index sitting out 405 00:13:57,934 --> 00:13:59,235 there because 406 00:13:59,615 --> 00:14:01,455 you're only paying a penny per message? I 407 00:14:01,615 --> 00:14:03,794 that would be my speculation as to maybe 408 00:14:03,855 --> 00:14:05,759 the rationale, but I agree with you. Like, 409 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:06,740 it should be right 410 00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:09,759 in that pricing table of, with this, you 411 00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:11,919 do not get a semantic index or grounded 412 00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:14,320 in your data with these two. Like, just 413 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:15,940 give us a table and show us that. 414 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,240 I completely agree with you on that point. 415 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,080 That part to me is very frustrating. That 416 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:21,540 was not it's not as clear. 417 00:14:21,955 --> 00:14:22,995 One of the other reasons why I say 418 00:14:22,995 --> 00:14:24,754 I think it's only limited to the consumption 419 00:14:24,754 --> 00:14:26,995 model is that this wasn't known until the 420 00:14:26,995 --> 00:14:28,294 consumption model was announced 421 00:14:28,754 --> 00:14:31,075 and when it wasn't even really known at 422 00:14:31,075 --> 00:14:33,075 that time, but that'severything kind of points back 423 00:14:33,075 --> 00:14:34,835 to that being like the big deal. So, 424 00:14:34,835 --> 00:14:36,355 Ithat's why I think the message pack does 425 00:14:36,355 --> 00:14:37,899 have it, but again, I'm not a % 426 00:14:37,899 --> 00:14:39,120 certain. Got it. 427 00:14:42,779 --> 00:14:44,860 Do you feel overwhelmed by trying to manage 428 00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:47,180 your Office three sixty five environment? Are you 429 00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:50,480 facing unexpected issues that disrupt your company's productivity? 430 00:14:50,779 --> 00:14:52,584 Intelligink is here to help, much like like 431 00:14:52,584 --> 00:14:54,264 you take your car to the mechanic that 432 00:14:54,264 --> 00:14:56,504 has specialized knowledge on how to best keep 433 00:14:56,504 --> 00:14:59,225 your car running, Intelligink helps you with your 434 00:14:59,225 --> 00:15:01,964 Microsoft cloud environment because that's their expertise. 435 00:15:02,345 --> 00:15:04,679 Intelligink keeps up with the latest updates in 436 00:15:04,679 --> 00:15:06,840 the Microsoft cloud to help keep your business 437 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,080 running smoothly and ahead of the curve. Whether 438 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,080 you are a small organization with just a 439 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,639 few users up to an organization of several 440 00:15:13,639 --> 00:15:14,539 thousand employees, 441 00:15:14,919 --> 00:15:16,919 they want to partner with you to implement 442 00:15:16,919 --> 00:15:17,659 and administer 443 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,659 your Microsoft cloud technology. 444 00:15:20,414 --> 00:15:23,875 Visit them at inteligync.com/podcast. 445 00:15:24,174 --> 00:15:30,914 That's intelligink.com/podcast 446 00:15:31,294 --> 00:15:33,375 for more information or to schedule a thirty 447 00:15:33,375 --> 00:15:35,475 minute call to get started with them today. 448 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,120 Remember, Intelligink focuses on the Microsoft cloud so 449 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,899 you can focus on your business. 450 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,279 I'm curious. This is not a question that 451 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:47,120 we necessarily talked about. But I know, like, 452 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,120 with sensitivity labels, you're going in and starting 453 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,455 to exclude SharePoint sites from Copilot, that type 454 00:15:52,455 --> 00:15:55,335 of stuff. It also affects SharePoint search, but, 455 00:15:55,335 --> 00:15:57,254 yeah, Copilot and SharePoint search are pulling from 456 00:15:57,254 --> 00:15:58,235 two different indexes. 457 00:15:58,774 --> 00:16:01,254 Is it because the semantic index is still 458 00:16:01,254 --> 00:16:02,475 using the search index 459 00:16:02,774 --> 00:16:04,855 to build it, or is it just because 460 00:16:04,855 --> 00:16:05,914 some of the functionality 461 00:16:06,615 --> 00:16:07,320 is the 462 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,160 same? I think it's the functionality is the 463 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,639 same. I don't know if they're also using 464 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:13,559 SharePoint as a way to populate the semantic 465 00:16:13,559 --> 00:16:15,559 index. They they may be, but I don't 466 00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:16,519 I don't think I got it. You don't 467 00:16:16,519 --> 00:16:18,929 know or looked into that why that's the 468 00:16:18,929 --> 00:16:20,595 case. Well, no, and I and I also 469 00:16:20,595 --> 00:16:21,715 don't think that they would be using the 470 00:16:21,715 --> 00:16:24,355 keyword indexing for that, for the search index 471 00:16:24,355 --> 00:16:26,274 that they've created for doing like SharePoint search 472 00:16:26,274 --> 00:16:27,955 or three sixty five search. Right. I think 473 00:16:27,955 --> 00:16:29,315 they would actually be going to the content, 474 00:16:29,315 --> 00:16:31,475 but that that actually brings up another interesting 475 00:16:31,475 --> 00:16:33,235 aspect too that that I that I thought 476 00:16:33,235 --> 00:16:35,610 was something that also catches people. And you 477 00:16:35,610 --> 00:16:36,889 so you guys, I think there's a little 478 00:16:36,889 --> 00:16:38,110 bit of a question around 479 00:16:38,570 --> 00:16:41,450 security and permissions. So like if like who 480 00:16:41,450 --> 00:16:43,929 has access to the content? Does Copilot have 481 00:16:43,929 --> 00:16:45,769 access? Does Copilot and the user have access? 482 00:16:45,769 --> 00:16:47,370 Like how does that work? When it comes 483 00:16:47,370 --> 00:16:49,705 to the semantic index, it's the same as 484 00:16:49,705 --> 00:16:51,384 think of the same way as how SharePoint 485 00:16:51,384 --> 00:16:53,865 works. So when something goes into the semantic 486 00:16:53,865 --> 00:16:56,105 index, you have the ability to add an 487 00:16:56,105 --> 00:16:58,184 ACL to it, an access control list, the 488 00:16:58,184 --> 00:17:00,445 same way we do with, like, SharePoint search. 489 00:17:00,504 --> 00:17:03,419 So when something is indexed, it has an 490 00:17:03,419 --> 00:17:03,919 ACL 491 00:17:04,539 --> 00:17:06,559 attached to it or a collection of ACLs, 492 00:17:06,619 --> 00:17:08,319 and that collection says 493 00:17:08,779 --> 00:17:10,960 these people or these groups 494 00:17:11,420 --> 00:17:13,740 have access or do not have access to 495 00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:17,119 this. So when Copilot does a query against 496 00:17:17,259 --> 00:17:18,400 the semantic index, 497 00:17:18,715 --> 00:17:20,955 Copilot's making the query, but it's making that 498 00:17:20,955 --> 00:17:21,455 query 499 00:17:21,835 --> 00:17:24,235 on behalf of the user that submitted the 500 00:17:24,235 --> 00:17:26,235 prompt. Okay. So it's getting so the data 501 00:17:26,235 --> 00:17:28,715 that Copilot gets back from semantic index is 502 00:17:28,715 --> 00:17:30,795 security trimmed for the user who issued the 503 00:17:30,795 --> 00:17:32,619 prompt. The same it Got it. Basically the 504 00:17:32,619 --> 00:17:34,140 same way how SharePoint search works. If I 505 00:17:34,140 --> 00:17:35,579 don't have access to a document and I 506 00:17:35,579 --> 00:17:36,940 do a search, I won't see it. You 507 00:17:36,940 --> 00:17:38,460 won't see it. It's just that the part 508 00:17:38,460 --> 00:17:41,259 that's me is now that is Copilot is 509 00:17:41,259 --> 00:17:43,904 doing it for me. So another question then, 510 00:17:44,065 --> 00:17:45,904 how quick is the semantic index? Because like 511 00:17:45,904 --> 00:17:47,585 SharePoint search index, right, you can have the 512 00:17:47,585 --> 00:17:50,384 continuous index on so that when you change 513 00:17:50,384 --> 00:17:50,884 security, 514 00:17:51,424 --> 00:17:53,265 it's I mean, let's be honest. It's not 515 00:17:53,265 --> 00:17:55,345 always instantaneous because it still has to re 516 00:17:55,345 --> 00:17:57,285 index the content to re pull in ACLs 517 00:17:57,345 --> 00:17:59,799 when you change security to it. Yeah. Semantic 518 00:17:59,799 --> 00:18:00,299 index, 519 00:18:00,759 --> 00:18:02,680 any ideas? I think it's kind of the 520 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,279 same delay as, like, how long it takes 521 00:18:04,279 --> 00:18:05,400 to share point to get in. And the 522 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,680 other part is, like, how long is it 523 00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:08,759 how how fast is it actually querying that 524 00:18:08,759 --> 00:18:10,200 when you issue a prompt to Copilot and 525 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,119 it's like dot dot dot Copilot's thinking. Yeah. 526 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:13,340 That's how fast it is. 527 00:18:14,315 --> 00:18:15,914 That's one of the reasons why it's like 528 00:18:15,914 --> 00:18:17,515 it's going to the semantic index. It's pulling 529 00:18:17,515 --> 00:18:18,795 some data back. It's going well, first, it 530 00:18:18,795 --> 00:18:20,714 goes to LLM, figuring out, like, what is 531 00:18:20,714 --> 00:18:22,555 the user's intent? And that tells it, Oh, 532 00:18:22,555 --> 00:18:23,755 I need to go over and find out 533 00:18:23,835 --> 00:18:26,575 find calendar message find calendar invites or transcripts 534 00:18:26,714 --> 00:18:27,775 or emails. 535 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,119 It grabs that. It uses that as part 536 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:31,480 of like it says that it's grounding that 537 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,960 knowledge, but it it is. But that's actually 538 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,200 pulling data to give it a like a 539 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,799 a implementing the rag pattern on the fly. 540 00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:39,980 So, it's actually CopaD's going to the LLM 541 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,054 multiple times, multiple round trips. So, that's one. 542 00:18:44,054 --> 00:18:46,554 So, another one though that's actually big is 543 00:18:46,615 --> 00:18:47,894 so that's one about the the whole thing 544 00:18:47,894 --> 00:18:50,295 about the the semantic index getting created Doctor. 545 00:18:50,295 --> 00:18:51,815 Yep. Doctor. And then also the content that's 546 00:18:51,815 --> 00:18:53,355 going in. Here's another 547 00:18:53,654 --> 00:18:55,115 I I'm gonna call it a limitation, 548 00:18:55,490 --> 00:18:56,849 but make sure you listen to the whole 549 00:18:56,849 --> 00:18:58,130 part of this because there's like a big 550 00:18:58,130 --> 00:19:00,690 story here. Doctor. Okay. Doctor. So when let's 551 00:19:00,690 --> 00:19:03,730 say I put a 300 page PDF into 552 00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:05,430 a SharePoint document library, 553 00:19:05,809 --> 00:19:09,009 it's getting indexed into the semantic index, but 554 00:19:09,009 --> 00:19:09,509 only 555 00:19:09,970 --> 00:19:11,325 the first percentage 556 00:19:11,705 --> 00:19:14,184 of that file. And now, I'm going to 557 00:19:14,184 --> 00:19:16,505 use some numbers here, but these numbers are 558 00:19:16,505 --> 00:19:19,144 always getting bigger. And so, just take this 559 00:19:19,144 --> 00:19:21,785 as an example, and this was true months 560 00:19:21,785 --> 00:19:24,179 ago, but I'm sure that when the time 561 00:19:24,179 --> 00:19:26,579 this episode comes out, when Build has happened, 562 00:19:26,579 --> 00:19:28,019 they would have made another announcement, so the 563 00:19:28,019 --> 00:19:30,339 numbers may be bigger. So, when if I 564 00:19:30,339 --> 00:19:32,419 have a 300 page PDF in there, and 565 00:19:32,419 --> 00:19:34,980 let's say deep in that PDF, there are 566 00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:37,220 lots of tables and good like documentation stuff 567 00:19:37,220 --> 00:19:38,679 in it and like real statistics, 568 00:19:39,345 --> 00:19:40,085 Only the 569 00:19:40,544 --> 00:19:43,585 first, let's say, 25 pages are getting indexed 570 00:19:43,585 --> 00:19:45,825 in the semantic index. Only the first four 571 00:19:45,825 --> 00:19:47,984 megs, essentially, of a piece of content is 572 00:19:47,984 --> 00:19:49,664 getting indexed. Now, granted, if I got 300 573 00:19:49,664 --> 00:19:52,144 page PDF, usually only about 15% or 20% 574 00:19:52,144 --> 00:19:53,700 of that is actual content, and the rest 575 00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:55,000 of it is all like packaging 576 00:19:55,460 --> 00:19:57,059 and Adobe PDF crap and all that kind 577 00:19:57,059 --> 00:19:58,900 of stuff. Same thing with Word Docs and 578 00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:00,500 PowerPoints. But a lot of people look at 579 00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:02,339 this, they say, I know the answer is 580 00:20:02,339 --> 00:20:04,500 in that PDF. And let's just say it's 581 00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:07,065 on page two seventy four. But when I 582 00:20:07,065 --> 00:20:08,825 ask Copilot, it doesn't know the answer. It's 583 00:20:08,825 --> 00:20:11,325 because the semantic index doesn't get the entire 584 00:20:11,625 --> 00:20:14,284 file. It's limited. And it's just part because 585 00:20:14,505 --> 00:20:16,825 we're early with all this AI stuff, and 586 00:20:16,825 --> 00:20:18,900 Microsoft is still working to get the things 587 00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:20,740 big to make the the the capabilities of 588 00:20:20,740 --> 00:20:22,339 what it can put in the index much 589 00:20:22,339 --> 00:20:24,519 bigger. So I I think it's big today. 590 00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:26,740 You you're already at 512 591 00:20:26,740 --> 00:20:29,619 megabytes today. That four meg has been surpassed. 592 00:20:29,619 --> 00:20:31,539 So if that goes even higher, like, I 593 00:20:31,539 --> 00:20:33,375 don't know. I think about the majority 594 00:20:33,914 --> 00:20:34,575 of organizational 595 00:20:34,875 --> 00:20:37,194 content that you work with is not many 596 00:20:37,194 --> 00:20:39,434 of us are working with 500 meg word 597 00:20:39,434 --> 00:20:42,494 documents, maybe Excel sheets, thing things like that. 598 00:20:42,634 --> 00:20:44,634 But that that number always gets bigger and 599 00:20:44,634 --> 00:20:46,554 bigger, probably up to the limitation of just 600 00:20:46,554 --> 00:20:48,494 file size in SharePoint at some point. 601 00:20:48,859 --> 00:20:51,019 But context windows need to grow. I I 602 00:20:51,019 --> 00:20:53,340 totally agree. I like context there. I actually 603 00:20:53,340 --> 00:20:54,940 have a one of my coaching clients is, 604 00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:58,160 in the, let's just say, the national security 605 00:20:58,380 --> 00:21:00,859 industry in The United States, and they're involved 606 00:21:00,859 --> 00:21:02,855 with the Department of Defense, and 607 00:21:03,154 --> 00:21:04,914 let's just say nuclear is involved in it 608 00:21:04,914 --> 00:21:07,634 as well. And they have some PDFs that 609 00:21:07,634 --> 00:21:09,315 are like three and four gigs of, like, 610 00:21:09,315 --> 00:21:11,154 nuclear safety stuff, and they're like, Why are 611 00:21:11,154 --> 00:21:13,474 we not seeing this stuff? So what we 612 00:21:13,474 --> 00:21:15,750 had to do instead to fix that was 613 00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:17,269 instead of just putting the stuff inside of 614 00:21:17,269 --> 00:21:19,349 a SharePoint document library, which they weren't doing 615 00:21:19,349 --> 00:21:21,349 anyway, but that's a whole head Snowden kind 616 00:21:21,349 --> 00:21:22,250 of like be careful. 617 00:21:23,109 --> 00:21:24,470 Instead, what they had to do is they 618 00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:26,970 had to create a custom process that would 619 00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:29,049 take all content out of that PDF. 620 00:21:29,375 --> 00:21:31,475 They would then create the embeddings 621 00:21:31,855 --> 00:21:33,634 and then store it in a vector database, 622 00:21:34,015 --> 00:21:34,674 and then 623 00:21:35,055 --> 00:21:37,055 they could go through and find all the 624 00:21:37,055 --> 00:21:39,215 content based on the user's prompt. Best way 625 00:21:39,215 --> 00:21:41,134 to do that, use Azure AI search. It's 626 00:21:41,134 --> 00:21:43,259 another resource. And you can hook that up 627 00:21:43,259 --> 00:21:45,980 to a Copilot based agent, or you can 628 00:21:45,980 --> 00:21:48,140 write a REST API that a declarative agent 629 00:21:48,140 --> 00:21:49,980 that a developer could write to go get 630 00:21:49,980 --> 00:21:52,240 that data, and now you have full visibility 631 00:21:52,460 --> 00:21:54,620 in the document. The big difference there, you 632 00:21:54,620 --> 00:21:56,620 as the developer, you have to pay for 633 00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:57,920 the Azure AI search 634 00:21:58,275 --> 00:21:59,955 resource and how much which is a a 635 00:21:59,955 --> 00:22:02,115 metered based thing. So how much you're putting 636 00:22:02,115 --> 00:22:03,555 in it and how much you're actually using 637 00:22:03,555 --> 00:22:05,795 it. Whereas, if you're doing a semantic index, 638 00:22:05,795 --> 00:22:07,715 that's part of the $30 per user per 639 00:22:07,715 --> 00:22:09,154 month all you can eat plan. Right? So 640 00:22:09,315 --> 00:22:11,154 Yeah. That's a there's a way around that. 641 00:22:11,154 --> 00:22:13,319 And, also, the Azure AI search doesn't have 642 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,079 the security trimming because they don't have the 643 00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:16,539 capability to do ACLs 644 00:22:16,919 --> 00:22:19,240 on the stuff today. So that's a little 645 00:22:19,399 --> 00:22:21,319 Hey. It's it's a you can't have your 646 00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:23,720 cake. You need it too Right. Depending depending 647 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:24,759 on where you are. I I think there 648 00:22:24,759 --> 00:22:26,679 is friction there. Like, one of the exciting 649 00:22:26,679 --> 00:22:29,934 things about context windows growing and effectively this 650 00:22:29,934 --> 00:22:32,654 concept of, like, quote, unquote, AI memory, right, 651 00:22:32,654 --> 00:22:34,515 and and chat memory and all these things 652 00:22:34,815 --> 00:22:36,974 is you're not gonna have to do that 653 00:22:36,974 --> 00:22:37,954 extra hop 654 00:22:38,335 --> 00:22:39,315 of potentially 655 00:22:39,775 --> 00:22:41,909 multiple chunks. Like, I I do run into 656 00:22:41,909 --> 00:22:44,409 customers in this situation today to really massive 657 00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:46,869 PDFs, things like that, where they have to 658 00:22:46,869 --> 00:22:48,950 pre chunk, and then they have to go 659 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:51,109 and vectorize that to generate they have to 660 00:22:51,109 --> 00:22:53,109 go generate embeddings, store all that stuff in 661 00:22:53,109 --> 00:22:56,105 a vector database, be it Pinecone, AI 662 00:22:56,404 --> 00:22:58,265 search, whatever it happens to be, 663 00:22:58,565 --> 00:23:00,565 and manage it through. But if you've got 664 00:23:00,565 --> 00:23:02,404 some maturity and, like, you're there and you 665 00:23:02,404 --> 00:23:04,484 understand that stuff and you're kind of on 666 00:23:04,484 --> 00:23:07,845 the, quote, unquote, cutting edge, like, sure. It's 667 00:23:07,845 --> 00:23:08,505 right there. 668 00:23:08,805 --> 00:23:11,099 It it is available for you. I've always 669 00:23:11,099 --> 00:23:13,980 been surprised, like, even watching, like, PMs on 670 00:23:13,980 --> 00:23:15,259 our team be able to pick some of 671 00:23:15,259 --> 00:23:17,180 that stuff up and and just run with 672 00:23:17,180 --> 00:23:19,579 it, like, out of the box. Well, not 673 00:23:19,579 --> 00:23:21,259 out of the box. Like but the the 674 00:23:21,259 --> 00:23:23,039 number of us now that are sitting here 675 00:23:23,325 --> 00:23:25,404 writing Python scripts on the side to do 676 00:23:25,404 --> 00:23:28,304 weird machinations, like, it it it's ever growing 677 00:23:29,085 --> 00:23:30,924 as as as we get up here and 678 00:23:30,924 --> 00:23:32,065 and we do these things. 679 00:23:32,365 --> 00:23:33,884 We we've been we've been prepping for our 680 00:23:33,884 --> 00:23:35,724 build session all week and thinking about, like, 681 00:23:35,724 --> 00:23:37,420 oh, which model do we show? How are 682 00:23:37,420 --> 00:23:39,440 we gonna demonstrate checkpointing here? 683 00:23:39,820 --> 00:23:41,579 What what are we gonna do in this 684 00:23:41,579 --> 00:23:43,339 scenario, in this thing to to really show 685 00:23:43,339 --> 00:23:45,259 it off where it shines? I'm not at 686 00:23:45,259 --> 00:23:46,619 the point of writing my own Python scripts 687 00:23:46,619 --> 00:23:47,820 yet. I am at the point of asking 688 00:23:47,820 --> 00:23:49,339 chat gbt telling it what I want, and 689 00:23:49,339 --> 00:23:50,700 it writes the Python script for me. But 690 00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:51,900 I'm not I'm not the point of writing 691 00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:54,225 my own. Yeah. Well, nobody should be writing 692 00:23:54,225 --> 00:23:56,225 Python from scratch anyway these days. Let let 693 00:23:56,225 --> 00:23:58,144 me yeah. I do it for you. Yeah. 694 00:23:58,144 --> 00:23:59,664 Those were the really big things that I 695 00:23:59,664 --> 00:24:01,345 saw, and I know they're not exactly dev 696 00:24:01,345 --> 00:24:03,025 stuff, but I I don't know what else 697 00:24:03,025 --> 00:24:04,384 you guys wanna talk about in terms of, 698 00:24:04,384 --> 00:24:06,970 like, dev specific things. So I have another 699 00:24:06,970 --> 00:24:09,369 question that I think you said this in 700 00:24:09,369 --> 00:24:11,369 the video. I think we're okay to talk 701 00:24:11,369 --> 00:24:12,190 about this. 702 00:24:12,490 --> 00:24:14,490 Well, it's something that that This is the 703 00:24:14,490 --> 00:24:16,569 last podcast I'll have my my my MVP 704 00:24:16,569 --> 00:24:18,409 NDA. Well, that's why we can edit. Right? 705 00:24:18,409 --> 00:24:20,250 Todd's the only one listening. Todd, if you 706 00:24:20,250 --> 00:24:22,214 hear this is NDA NDA or anything about 707 00:24:22,214 --> 00:24:24,615 this is NDA, don't I know Todd. Todd 708 00:24:24,615 --> 00:24:27,015 will be good. Like, we talked about SharePoint 709 00:24:27,015 --> 00:24:29,654 index, surfacing content, size of files. One of 710 00:24:29,654 --> 00:24:31,815 the things you used to do or you 711 00:24:31,815 --> 00:24:34,055 still do to help with SharePoint search and 712 00:24:34,055 --> 00:24:36,119 digging through libraries and lists and all that 713 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,579 is metadata on these files 714 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:38,779 to be able 715 00:24:39,319 --> 00:24:41,160 to do, like, filters on it and query 716 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,359 on it. And then you get a query 717 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:43,720 and you get your filter down the left 718 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,319 side with your metadata and doing all of 719 00:24:45,319 --> 00:24:47,420 that. How does Copilot handle 720 00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:48,299 metadata 721 00:24:49,375 --> 00:24:50,934 and files? That's a great question. It's a 722 00:24:50,934 --> 00:24:51,634 great answer. 723 00:24:52,095 --> 00:24:52,674 It doesn't. 724 00:24:53,855 --> 00:24:56,734 So here's the thing. Copilot only okay. So 725 00:24:56,734 --> 00:24:58,494 it's not so much Copilot. Remember, all goes 726 00:24:58,494 --> 00:25:01,054 back to semantic Right. Semantic index. The semantic 727 00:25:01,054 --> 00:25:04,890 index only has the content from files inside 728 00:25:04,890 --> 00:25:07,630 of SharePoint and OneDrive. It does not have 729 00:25:07,769 --> 00:25:10,410 content related to the metadata on those files 730 00:25:10,410 --> 00:25:12,410 in a document library. It does not have 731 00:25:12,410 --> 00:25:14,650 data from SharePoint lists. It does not have 732 00:25:14,650 --> 00:25:16,109 data from SharePoint pages. 733 00:25:16,454 --> 00:25:18,855 Microsoft knows all of this. They that is 734 00:25:18,934 --> 00:25:20,454 might even has changed by the time I'm 735 00:25:20,454 --> 00:25:22,294 saying this. It might even change by the 736 00:25:22,294 --> 00:25:24,694 time you're hearing this, but especially because build 737 00:25:24,694 --> 00:25:26,534 is next week because it's a huge ask 738 00:25:26,534 --> 00:25:28,694 for people. But I know, like, list data 739 00:25:28,694 --> 00:25:30,740 has been a huge blind spot when it 740 00:25:30,740 --> 00:25:32,980 comes to m three sixty five Copilot because 741 00:25:32,980 --> 00:25:35,059 it is that content is not being indexed 742 00:25:35,059 --> 00:25:38,119 into the semantic index. Only the files inside 743 00:25:38,180 --> 00:25:40,500 of a document library in OneDrive are being 744 00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:42,420 indexed. Okay. And not even so not even 745 00:25:42,420 --> 00:25:44,840 ASPX pages because technically, I think of ASPX 746 00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:47,605 pages and, yeah, you look at companies' intranets 747 00:25:47,664 --> 00:25:49,044 or I know companies, 748 00:25:49,505 --> 00:25:51,845 good idea or not, have built, like, whole 749 00:25:51,984 --> 00:25:54,625 wikis and all their documentation in ASPX pages 750 00:25:54,625 --> 00:25:56,565 because they want it in that format. 751 00:25:56,944 --> 00:25:59,190 And then so they could also be very 752 00:25:59,190 --> 00:26:01,769 surprised when they go ask Copilot, and Copilot's, 753 00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:04,390 like, missing data. Maybe it's missing data from 754 00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:06,890 Power Apps that are writing to SharePoint lists 755 00:26:06,950 --> 00:26:09,509 or Yeah. You're a developer or SPFX. I 756 00:26:09,509 --> 00:26:10,329 can do SPFX 757 00:26:10,774 --> 00:26:12,774 writing the SharePoint list. None of that's gonna 758 00:26:12,774 --> 00:26:13,434 come into 759 00:26:13,734 --> 00:26:14,234 Copilot. 760 00:26:14,615 --> 00:26:16,294 That's correct. But, again, I just wanna stress 761 00:26:16,294 --> 00:26:18,294 one thing, and that is that is the 762 00:26:18,294 --> 00:26:20,554 way it at least was 763 00:26:21,014 --> 00:26:21,514 recently. 764 00:26:21,974 --> 00:26:24,134 And I would whenever something like this comes 765 00:26:24,134 --> 00:26:25,755 up and cope with with, like, a limitation, 766 00:26:25,894 --> 00:26:27,950 it's always, I'm filing this back in my 767 00:26:27,950 --> 00:26:29,470 head. When I do a search, something's not 768 00:26:29,470 --> 00:26:31,789 happening. It's like, I remember that guy told 769 00:26:31,789 --> 00:26:33,390 me this thing at one point. Yeah. I 770 00:26:33,390 --> 00:26:34,590 wonder if that's going on. Let me go 771 00:26:34,590 --> 00:26:36,830 research or go to your research and be 772 00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:38,670 like, well, no. Andrew's wrong. I just saw 773 00:26:38,670 --> 00:26:41,115 this build this week, and they said that 774 00:26:41,115 --> 00:26:42,715 now we're doing list content, like, going, yeah, 775 00:26:42,715 --> 00:26:44,394 well, that's probably that's a couple days after 776 00:26:44,394 --> 00:26:45,535 we recorded this. So 777 00:26:45,994 --> 00:26:48,715 this is changing. Microsoft is is like they're 778 00:26:48,715 --> 00:26:51,674 feverishly working Right. On everything with this to 779 00:26:51,674 --> 00:26:54,234 make it more powerful. So this stuff could 780 00:26:54,394 --> 00:26:56,210 is I would expect it to change and 781 00:26:56,210 --> 00:26:57,730 get better, but it's just one of the 782 00:26:57,730 --> 00:26:59,490 things you wanna be, like, let's double check 783 00:26:59,490 --> 00:27:00,769 and make sure this is the case. That's 784 00:27:00,769 --> 00:27:02,690 okay. Right. That's turned into my default answer. 785 00:27:02,690 --> 00:27:04,369 And I'm doing demos now or something, and 786 00:27:04,369 --> 00:27:06,210 I can't find something. I'm like, must have 787 00:27:06,210 --> 00:27:08,494 changed because it does. It feels like this 788 00:27:08,494 --> 00:27:11,875 stuff is changing, like, daily or hourly or 789 00:27:12,095 --> 00:27:12,994 by the minute. 790 00:27:13,375 --> 00:27:14,734 I was teaching a class this week. I 791 00:27:14,734 --> 00:27:16,494 recorded a demo at 10:30 at night. I 792 00:27:16,494 --> 00:27:17,855 taught the class at nine the next morning, 793 00:27:17,855 --> 00:27:19,710 and it literally was different at nine the 794 00:27:19,710 --> 00:27:21,549 next morning in the exact same tenet. And 795 00:27:21,549 --> 00:27:23,230 so I was like, Yeah, stuff is flighting 796 00:27:23,230 --> 00:27:25,970 for build, so my bad. Welcome to Evergreen 797 00:27:26,029 --> 00:27:26,929 SaaS products. 798 00:27:27,230 --> 00:27:29,869 Exactly. Right. And this time of year is 799 00:27:29,869 --> 00:27:31,970 always fun too because the documentation 800 00:27:32,269 --> 00:27:34,704 often freezes before these events. So sometimes you 801 00:27:34,704 --> 00:27:36,484 start seeing new things come out before 802 00:27:37,105 --> 00:27:40,065 documentation's even there or or anything else along 803 00:27:40,065 --> 00:27:41,184 the way. So it's it's a little bit 804 00:27:41,184 --> 00:27:41,764 of a 805 00:27:42,065 --> 00:27:44,065 a challenge to to keep up with and 806 00:27:44,065 --> 00:27:46,144 balance. But I think, like, we've been talking 807 00:27:46,144 --> 00:27:47,744 about this for years and years and years 808 00:27:47,744 --> 00:27:50,319 with just Office March, m three sixty five 809 00:27:50,319 --> 00:27:52,559 in general. Like, the only constant is change 810 00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:55,359 there anyway. So you gotta kinda be ready 811 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,279 ready to pivot and and deal with those 812 00:27:57,279 --> 00:27:57,779 things 813 00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:59,839 as they do come up. And I think, 814 00:27:59,839 --> 00:28:02,365 like, back to earlier about those customers who 815 00:28:02,365 --> 00:28:03,664 are mature enough maybe 816 00:28:04,525 --> 00:28:05,345 to go ahead 817 00:28:06,444 --> 00:28:09,085 and chunk and and generate embeddings for for 818 00:28:09,085 --> 00:28:09,904 their own stuff, 819 00:28:10,365 --> 00:28:12,125 they also know that they're kind of on 820 00:28:12,125 --> 00:28:14,525 the bleeding edge and need to keep up 821 00:28:14,525 --> 00:28:16,065 with some of this stuff. 822 00:28:16,420 --> 00:28:18,820 Yep. I I do worry sometimes about the 823 00:28:19,220 --> 00:28:21,140 not that's not like some, like, heavy hearted, 824 00:28:21,140 --> 00:28:22,759 like, the world's gonna end kind of thing, 825 00:28:22,820 --> 00:28:24,900 but just about the friction for customers there, 826 00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:26,900 just as the buttons are moving every day, 827 00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:29,000 the functionality is changing. Like, 828 00:28:29,460 --> 00:28:31,000 oh, I I I can do 829 00:28:31,384 --> 00:28:34,585 deep research today in in Copilot consumer, but 830 00:28:34,585 --> 00:28:36,744 I can't do it yet in m three 831 00:28:36,744 --> 00:28:40,444 sixty five Copilot. Like, those disparate experience experiences 832 00:28:40,504 --> 00:28:42,365 and things, they they do tend to 833 00:28:43,144 --> 00:28:44,904 add up. So you still gotta do the 834 00:28:44,904 --> 00:28:47,269 TCO and figure out, like, where value is 835 00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:48,490 inflicted in my org. 836 00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:50,950 I completely I completely agree with that. I 837 00:28:50,950 --> 00:28:52,150 mean, it's like it's one of the things 838 00:28:52,150 --> 00:28:54,230 that I I find is like a service 839 00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:55,750 offer for my customers. I I I do, 840 00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:57,910 like, this coaching service, and it's like, hey. 841 00:28:57,910 --> 00:28:59,190 Look. You can't stay on top of this 842 00:28:59,190 --> 00:29:00,630 stuff. I'm the one that's my job. I'm 843 00:29:00,630 --> 00:29:02,355 tango staying on top of it. So it's 844 00:29:02,355 --> 00:29:03,474 pretty much we jump on a call. It's, 845 00:29:03,474 --> 00:29:04,595 like, going, what do you know that's different 846 00:29:04,595 --> 00:29:05,714 based on what we're doing? And I'm, like, 847 00:29:05,714 --> 00:29:07,154 going, okay, this is no longer the case, 848 00:29:07,154 --> 00:29:08,434 or this is the case, or be careful 849 00:29:08,434 --> 00:29:09,795 with this, or I know that this is 850 00:29:09,795 --> 00:29:11,315 gonna change, so I would not invest time 851 00:29:11,315 --> 00:29:13,154 here because stuff is gonna change in the 852 00:29:13,154 --> 00:29:14,755 next few months. So it's it's just the 853 00:29:14,755 --> 00:29:16,529 only thing that's different about what you said 854 00:29:16,529 --> 00:29:18,130 to me, Scott, is that it's the change 855 00:29:18,130 --> 00:29:19,730 is just going so much faster. Like, we 856 00:29:19,730 --> 00:29:21,890 are on a much steeper downhill than we 857 00:29:21,890 --> 00:29:23,730 were on the mountain before. For sure. I 858 00:29:23,730 --> 00:29:25,730 I think pace to change is is very 859 00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:28,289 real there. So should you get into this 860 00:29:28,289 --> 00:29:30,244 world, all of a sudden, you end up 861 00:29:30,244 --> 00:29:31,464 in a place where 862 00:29:32,005 --> 00:29:33,845 you're kind of joining the space race of 863 00:29:33,845 --> 00:29:36,505 everybody else. And and you gotta be prepared 864 00:29:36,724 --> 00:29:39,125 for that. So the solution that you build 865 00:29:39,125 --> 00:29:40,825 today, should you take a dependency 866 00:29:41,125 --> 00:29:42,505 on any kind of 867 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,480 SaaS surface or anything like that, it's or 868 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,799 or a PaaS service even, you have to 869 00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:49,880 know that it's gonna change. And it's probably 870 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,679 gonna change more rapidly than you're used to 871 00:29:52,679 --> 00:29:54,839 in the past. That said, if you're still 872 00:29:54,839 --> 00:29:56,200 doing some of this stuff maybe in, like, 873 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,335 an on prem context, like, it's one thing 874 00:29:58,335 --> 00:30:00,335 to say, hey. I'm using Azure AI studio 875 00:30:00,575 --> 00:30:02,734 or Azure AI search, and it's moving at 876 00:30:02,734 --> 00:30:03,954 this pace. Or 877 00:30:04,335 --> 00:30:06,494 I'm using AI Foundry, and it's going this 878 00:30:06,494 --> 00:30:07,394 fast versus 879 00:30:07,934 --> 00:30:08,994 I I took a dependency 880 00:30:09,375 --> 00:30:11,535 on langchain and Pinecone here, and and that 881 00:30:11,535 --> 00:30:13,820 was locally for me to do. So you 882 00:30:13,820 --> 00:30:15,420 you can have a little bit of that 883 00:30:15,420 --> 00:30:17,599 stability along the way if you need it. 884 00:30:17,740 --> 00:30:19,660 Yep. It's not gonna be super stable. Like 885 00:30:19,660 --> 00:30:21,099 you said, the hill is still a hill. 886 00:30:21,099 --> 00:30:22,859 And and it's and it's a very it's 887 00:30:22,859 --> 00:30:25,019 it's a very steep one. Yeah. That we're 888 00:30:25,019 --> 00:30:26,619 all falling down or trying to climb up, 889 00:30:26,619 --> 00:30:27,839 I can't figure it out. 890 00:30:28,140 --> 00:30:29,474 It's I think it's a little bit of 891 00:30:29,474 --> 00:30:30,434 both. I can I can make a little 892 00:30:30,434 --> 00:30:32,115 bit of progress, but I fall four rings 893 00:30:32,115 --> 00:30:32,615 down? 894 00:30:33,875 --> 00:30:36,994 Yes. Yeah. %. So I know, Scott, you 895 00:30:36,994 --> 00:30:39,154 have meetings coming up. I have meetings coming 896 00:30:39,154 --> 00:30:40,375 up. AC has 897 00:30:40,769 --> 00:30:42,710 coaching and meetings coming 898 00:30:43,170 --> 00:30:46,049 up. But anything else, AC, any last thoughts, 899 00:30:46,049 --> 00:30:48,470 other things people should be aware of or 900 00:30:48,690 --> 00:30:50,849 even if people wanna learn more about Copilot 901 00:30:50,849 --> 00:30:52,609 dev? I know we didn't get into all 902 00:30:52,609 --> 00:30:54,450 the developing your own agents. Maybe we'll have 903 00:30:54,450 --> 00:30:56,444 to have you on for the fifth or 904 00:30:56,444 --> 00:30:58,444 sixth time or whatever and talk more about 905 00:30:58,444 --> 00:31:00,845 the custom dev story, but, yeah, people wanna 906 00:31:00,845 --> 00:31:02,845 get in touch with you, any of that. 907 00:31:02,845 --> 00:31:04,684 Yeah. I I appreciate that. I guess it 908 00:31:04,765 --> 00:31:06,044 I would love to come back on happy 909 00:31:06,044 --> 00:31:07,085 to talk about the dev story. In fact, 910 00:31:07,085 --> 00:31:08,204 it'd probably be better if we did it 911 00:31:08,204 --> 00:31:09,724 after build too so that I can Alright. 912 00:31:09,804 --> 00:31:11,380 I know some stuff that's coming that we'll 913 00:31:11,380 --> 00:31:12,980 talk about that Microsoft will talk about next 914 00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:15,059 week. But, yeah, I have a company called 915 00:31:15,059 --> 00:31:18,359 Voitanos. I focus on making you the best 916 00:31:18,419 --> 00:31:20,819 Microsoft three sixty five developer in the Microsoft 917 00:31:20,819 --> 00:31:22,039 three sixty five ecosystem 918 00:31:22,659 --> 00:31:24,980 and indispensable in your organization. So I do 919 00:31:24,980 --> 00:31:27,434 that through, like, SharePoint framework training, Teams app 920 00:31:27,434 --> 00:31:30,174 dev training, and Copilot training. I have a 921 00:31:30,394 --> 00:31:31,214 a six hour, 922 00:31:31,595 --> 00:31:33,994 two day virtual workshop that I do on 923 00:31:33,994 --> 00:31:36,634 building declarative agents for the developer audience, so 924 00:31:36,634 --> 00:31:39,515 not using Copilot Studio, but using Visual Studio 925 00:31:39,515 --> 00:31:41,980 Code. And I'm due to refresh that. I'm 926 00:31:41,980 --> 00:31:44,059 intentionally waiting until after build because I know 927 00:31:44,059 --> 00:31:45,820 things are gonna be changing. But I'm gonna 928 00:31:45,820 --> 00:31:47,339 I plan on I do that at conferences 929 00:31:47,339 --> 00:31:48,620 for a full day workshop. I did it 930 00:31:48,620 --> 00:31:50,539 at the Microsoft three sixty five community conference. 931 00:31:50,539 --> 00:31:51,980 I'm gonna do it again at the TechComm 932 00:31:51,980 --> 00:31:54,105 conference in Seattle in June. But I also 933 00:31:54,105 --> 00:31:56,184 have that as a, as a live workshop 934 00:31:56,184 --> 00:31:58,924 that I'll offer on my site at voitonos.io. 935 00:31:58,984 --> 00:32:01,224 And if you, if you if you're interested 936 00:32:01,224 --> 00:32:02,585 too, I mean, I've got, like, the recordings 937 00:32:02,585 --> 00:32:04,265 from when I last delivered that in March 938 00:32:04,265 --> 00:32:05,244 are also available 939 00:32:05,799 --> 00:32:07,559 for, to enroll in on my course where 940 00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:09,400 you'll actually get access to the the updated 941 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,480 ones once those are done. So, yeah, I 942 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:12,680 mean, the best place to find me is 943 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,220 just voitanos.io 944 00:32:14,519 --> 00:32:16,119 or search for I I'll put give you 945 00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:17,240 guys my link so you can put them 946 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,240 in the show notes, but Perfect. LinkedIn, Blue 947 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:20,299 Sky, YouTube, 948 00:32:20,644 --> 00:32:21,845 I'm easy to find. If you just search 949 00:32:21,845 --> 00:32:24,244 for Andrew Connell in SharePoint, it's I'm pretty 950 00:32:24,244 --> 00:32:25,605 much the first one that's gonna come up. 951 00:32:25,605 --> 00:32:28,565 Perfect. Sounds good. Well, thanks, AC. Thanks for 952 00:32:28,565 --> 00:32:30,884 jumping on with us, filling in some of 953 00:32:30,884 --> 00:32:34,325 those additional details around CoPilot agents. And, appear 954 00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:36,630 I was gonna say the message takeaway from 955 00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:39,029 this is go pay attention at build, but 956 00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:41,029 this is gonna come out after build. So 957 00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:42,230 if you're listening to this Go back and 958 00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:44,390 watch build. Go back and watch build and 959 00:32:44,390 --> 00:32:48,069 look for maybe certain announcements around Copilot agents 960 00:32:48,069 --> 00:32:49,429 and some of the stuff you may have 961 00:32:49,429 --> 00:32:51,505 heard here. Watch for my recap. I will 962 00:32:51,505 --> 00:32:53,265 have a recap for eight when it comes 963 00:32:53,265 --> 00:32:55,505 to SharePoint, Teams app dev, and agents that 964 00:32:55,505 --> 00:32:57,345 is, like, the build stuff, like, this is 965 00:32:57,345 --> 00:32:58,785 what you wanna focus on. I did it 966 00:32:58,785 --> 00:33:00,785 for Ignite. I did it for Build. It's 967 00:33:00,785 --> 00:33:02,065 a great way for me to get get 968 00:33:02,065 --> 00:33:03,809 up to speed on everything, and I plan 969 00:33:03,809 --> 00:33:05,569 on doing it again as Build goes on 970 00:33:05,569 --> 00:33:07,409 next week as well. Okay. Perfect. And if 971 00:33:07,409 --> 00:33:08,309 you have that 972 00:33:08,609 --> 00:33:11,569 before this show goes live, send it over, 973 00:33:11,569 --> 00:33:12,929 and we'll include that in the show notes 974 00:33:12,929 --> 00:33:14,450 as well for anybody listening. If you wanna 975 00:33:14,450 --> 00:33:16,769 get AC's recap, and if it's live or 976 00:33:16,769 --> 00:33:18,724 going to be live, we'll add that as 977 00:33:18,724 --> 00:33:21,284 well. Awesome. Sounds good, man. Awesome. Well, thanks, 978 00:33:21,284 --> 00:33:23,444 guys. Appreciate it. Yeah. Enjoy your weekend, and 979 00:33:23,444 --> 00:33:24,804 we'll talk to you guys later. Thanks. Alright. 980 00:33:24,804 --> 00:33:26,804 Thanks, Ben, Scott. And congrats again on episode 981 00:33:26,804 --> 00:33:29,444 400. That's awesome. Alright. Thanks, AC. Appreciate it. 982 00:33:29,444 --> 00:33:29,910 Bye. 983 00:33:31,910 --> 00:33:34,150 If you enjoyed the podcast, go leave us 984 00:33:34,150 --> 00:33:36,390 a five star rating in iTunes. It helps 985 00:33:36,390 --> 00:33:38,070 to get the word out so more IT 986 00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:40,230 pros can learn about Office three sixty five 987 00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:40,890 and Azure. 988 00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:43,109 If you have any questions you want us 989 00:33:43,109 --> 00:33:45,269 to address on the show or feedback about 990 00:33:45,269 --> 00:33:47,644 the show, feel free to reach out via 991 00:33:47,644 --> 00:33:49,825 our website, Twitter, or Facebook. 992 00:33:50,125 --> 00:33:51,964 Thanks again for listening, and have a great 993 00:33:51,964 --> 00:33:52,464 day.