1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,040 Hello, and welcome to Mike Epod podcast, 2 00:00:03,090 --> 00:00:07,480 episode 355 for January 2nd, 2023. 3 00:00:07,780 --> 00:00:09,840 And happy New Year. On this episode, 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,760 pianist Sophia Saba sek joins me to talk about her gorgeous and fascinating 5 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:16,480 new album in our softening, 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,960 which was written on and for a piano that she discovered in a church building 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,640 basement that had been sharing space with a well-documented hate group. It's, 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,480 there's a lot to talk about with this instrument. Um, uh, 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,400 this is just the intro to the show. I can't get too much into it. Uh, the, 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,840 the music though is intricate delicate, and it's really intriguing. 11 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,160 And hearing her talk about that creation of this album, 12 00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:43,400 the discovery of the piano, all of these things are, uh, 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,960 outstanding. This is a great conversation. By the way, I'm your host, 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,960 Michael Herron. I'm a composer, pianist, electronic musician, 15 00:00:50,100 --> 00:00:52,800 and storyteller based in New York City. On this podcast, 16 00:00:53,030 --> 00:00:57,160 I have conversations with fellow creators who use their creativity to change the 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,440 world. I've been sending this podcast to your ears for well over 17 years. 18 00:01:01,610 --> 00:01:02,680 If you like what you hear, 19 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,600 subscribe using the colorful buttons in the sidebar and footer@mikeepod.com. 20 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,560 Or you can just search Mike epod in your favorite podcast directory. 21 00:01:09,570 --> 00:01:10,920 If you'd like to know more about me, 22 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,440 you can stop by my website@michaelherron.com. 23 00:01:13,540 --> 00:01:16,360 Hit me up on social media everywhere ish. 24 00:01:16,780 --> 00:01:20,400 I'm on and off social media lately, um, at michael herron.com. 25 00:01:20,980 --> 00:01:25,240 And you can always send me an email@mikeypoddgmail.com. 26 00:01:25,810 --> 00:01:29,120 So, hello, happy New Year. Uh, it's been a little while since podcast, 27 00:01:29,180 --> 00:01:31,800 the holidays, et cetera, et cetera. Um, 28 00:01:32,190 --> 00:01:36,000 I am curious what's going on, , 29 00:01:36,110 --> 00:01:40,680 what's going on with you this year? I've been really thinking about, I, 30 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,920 I have a very casual relationship with, uh, new Year's resolutions, 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,720 but I do like some things were sort of like getting in process for me 32 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,080 already before the new year. 33 00:01:51,250 --> 00:01:53,760 So I'm feeling happy that a lot of it has to do with like, 34 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:57,440 the structure of running the business of my life, 35 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,440 and the business of my business, and the business of, uh, 36 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,120 this podcast and the other kind of creative work that I do. Um, 37 00:02:04,150 --> 00:02:08,400 I am focusing this year on a single word that was, uh, 38 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,560 this idea was shared with me at a party the other night. Um, 39 00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:17,440 now I forgot what my word is. What's the word for like a, uh, 40 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,920 let's call it abundance. Uh, that's not the word I chose, 41 00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:23,000 but actually I like it better. Maybe that's why that happened. Yeah. 42 00:02:23,060 --> 00:02:27,640 I'm focusing on abundance and feeling abundant, and I don't know, like, 43 00:02:28,310 --> 00:02:33,160 just to put it in a short way, a lot of my life I've spent, you know, 44 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,280 as an artist, as a waiter, as a teacher, 45 00:02:38,270 --> 00:02:43,040 finances for me have always been sporadic. Um, 46 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:44,360 and, um, 47 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,480 something you can't always count on being consistent and being an artist and 48 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:53,280 growing up in a society and in a world where, um, that's sort of considered, uh, 49 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:54,280 not a good hobby. 50 00:02:54,390 --> 00:02:59,320 I I haven't really taken my life as something that could be abundant or I 51 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,960 never thought of it that way. And, um, just over the past year or so, 52 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,680 I've been really shifting in that way. 53 00:03:04,690 --> 00:03:08,120 So a lot of like behind the scenes structuring and that sort of thing has been 54 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:08,620 happening. 55 00:03:08,620 --> 00:03:12,400 And I really pushed the last week before the end of the year because it felt 56 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,640 like, okay, January 1st, all this stuff, 57 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:20,400 it's time to like keep getting the stuff in action and really, uh, 58 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,320 embrace it. So I don't know whether that's even something you care to hear, 59 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,160 , but that's where I'm at with the new year. Um, 60 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,240 and I really would love to know what the new year is looking like for you. 61 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:34,760 You can always comment on this podcast or on my social media or email me mikey 62 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,440 pot gmail.com. I really, I really want to hear from you. 63 00:03:38,650 --> 00:03:39,840 So if you're listening to this podcast, 64 00:03:40,060 --> 00:03:43,000 you have even the shortest comment to make. Let me know. 65 00:03:43,140 --> 00:03:46,320 I'm really excited to hear from you. Uh, 66 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:51,280 another thing that's going on in Podcast Land is that I am going to work on, 67 00:03:52,010 --> 00:03:56,640 um, doing some bonus material that'll come through the Apple Podcast app. 68 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,280 I'm gonna be setting that up this week. Uh, 69 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,520 I'm not sure what that's ultimately gonna look like and if I wanna stick to it, 70 00:04:02,770 --> 00:04:06,720 um, but it's gonna be fun to sort of experiment and see what that's like. 71 00:04:06,740 --> 00:04:10,640 And that's really it. That's my middle of the show check in for you. Um, 72 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:15,160 before we get on to the interview and some music from Sophia Zaya Vae, 73 00:04:15,350 --> 00:04:19,200 I do wanna make sure that I thank my subscribers on Patreon for powering this 74 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,480 podcast and all the other creative work that I do. 75 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,400 These are people who subscribe for $5 or more a mu month and get special perks, 76 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,920 like tons of free downloads of my music and zines and bonus podcasts. 77 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,640 As I mentioned earlier, there are 90, 78 00:04:32,230 --> 00:04:35,400 over 90 of them that you'll have immediate access to when you subscribe, 79 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,080 including this week's bonus episode, 80 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,200 which will feature an extended conversation with today's guest, 81 00:04:40,470 --> 00:04:43,000 Sophia Zaya Vasa. So, 82 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,040 I mentioned in the beginning of the show a little bit about this album, 83 00:04:46,060 --> 00:04:49,040 and I did it in a really clumsy way, and you'll, 84 00:04:49,070 --> 00:04:53,720 I was feeling very clumsy about describing this album. 85 00:04:54,290 --> 00:04:54,640 Uh, 86 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,560 you'll hear the music I'm about to play with track for you and the conversation 87 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,000 we have about it. The, 88 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,680 the piano itself is so imperfect sounding. And, um, 89 00:05:04,020 --> 00:05:07,600 the thing that I really love is that the, the music is, 90 00:05:08,020 --> 00:05:12,400 and the imperfections of the album became part of each, uh, sorry, 91 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,720 the imperfections of the piano became a, 92 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,200 a compositional part of the, of the music. Um, 93 00:05:21,030 --> 00:05:24,000 that, yeah. I'm gonna leave it at that. Um, 94 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,400 there's so much great stuff in this conversation, but before we listen to it, 95 00:05:28,470 --> 00:05:31,240 here's a track from the album. 96 00:05:31,310 --> 00:05:35,480 This is called The Seas That Made Us, and following this we'll hear, um, 97 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,520 an interview with Sophia Saba, 98 00:10:34,910 --> 00:10:38,560 That was the Seize that made us from Sophia Saba Sek, 99 00:10:38,740 --> 00:10:41,240 who is joining me right now. 100 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,440 Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. 101 00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:45,160 Thanks so much for having me. 102 00:10:45,650 --> 00:10:50,520 Um, this album is really interesting to me. I'm also a pianist. 103 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:51,760 I don't know if you gathered that already. 104 00:10:51,990 --> 00:10:52,840 I did, yes. 105 00:10:53,270 --> 00:10:56,120 I, I gave a little background when I introduced the piece, 106 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,280 but I'd love for you to talk about this piano that you recorded the album on and 107 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,120 these pieces were written on. 108 00:11:03,020 --> 00:11:07,080 Wow. So this piano is, I think, well, 109 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,560 certainly the first time that I had ever like, 110 00:11:10,620 --> 00:11:14,840 encountered a piano or an instrument in general and just kind of immediately 111 00:11:15,830 --> 00:11:20,160 fell in love with, like, we really just started a relationship from, 112 00:11:20,230 --> 00:11:24,440 from the first moment, um, which was very, uh, 113 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,840 unique experience for me, you know, as pianists. I mean, you know, 114 00:11:28,450 --> 00:11:33,240 we played so many different pianos and it's kind of like this weird relationship 115 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,000 where, you know, we have a performance and then that's it. 116 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,920 You kind of leave the thing. Um, and music that's written for the piano, 117 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,640 there's just this expectation that it'll be performed on, 118 00:11:43,690 --> 00:11:46,960 on a lot of different instruments. Right, right. Um, 119 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,880 and so this was really the first time that I encountered a piano where it felt 120 00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:56,640 like there was music that needed to be written just for this piano 121 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:02,120 . Um, and so yeah, this kind of immediately started writing music for, 122 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:07,080 for this very idiosyncratic instrument. Um, but it had been, 123 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:12,040 so, I guess just a little history about the piano itself. It had been in, uh, 124 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:16,280 former church building in the city where I live, Troy New York. 125 00:12:17,010 --> 00:12:18,400 Um, and, uh, 126 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,560 a friend of mine had bought the building and turned it into his artist studio. 127 00:12:21,620 --> 00:12:24,600 And so this is how I first came into contact with it. 128 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,640 He had told me he had this piano, he was trying to get rid of it, 129 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,280 and I played it. And, you know, I think I'd giggled a little bit. I was like, 130 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,440 oh my god, Howard, I have to have this piano . 131 00:12:36,010 --> 00:12:38,960 Um, but yeah, it was, it was a very kind of magical. 132 00:12:39,580 --> 00:12:43,040 The thing that's so cool about it, and I'm sure this is what grabbed you too, 133 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,400 is that there's so many imperfections about this piano, 134 00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:46,760 but listening to the album, 135 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,920 especially when I listened to it with headphones and I was on the subway of all 136 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:54,600 things like letting like this subway sound sort of drift in through my ear 137 00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:57,640 air, uh, AirPods and like, 138 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:02,560 really like experiencing the sounds coming from the piano that were not what we 139 00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:03,880 might typically classify as music, 140 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,600 the sounds of the mechanism of the piano and the, um, 141 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,080 these things that really are a part of the pieces, like the, 142 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,160 they feel like an integral part of the piano. 143 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,400 Like the piano is making an appearance as a performer in this album. 144 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,680 Am I like overstating that? Or is are you feeling it too? 145 00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:23,440 No, I think that's actually a really great way of putting it. You know, there, 146 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,920 there are a lot of incredible piano recordings out in the world 147 00:13:28,030 --> 00:13:32,160 that are so pristine and, and clean and, you know, I I, 148 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,560 those are amazing too, , I'm not gonna say it one way or the other, 149 00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:40,200 but I think that is kind of the, the magic of this, of this piano. 150 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,440 And what we really wanted to capture in the recording was all this other stuff 151 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:49,400 that's going on that I think just kind of gives it this, this layer of, 152 00:13:49,530 --> 00:13:51,200 of, I mean for me, it, 153 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,800 it just feels like all the stories inside the piano are, 154 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,480 are coming out in all of those additional sounds. 155 00:13:57,780 --> 00:13:59,840 And some of the stories are, like, 156 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,880 one of the things that I thought was really interesting and really grabbed me 157 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,720 about the history of this piano was that there was like a, 158 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,120 a hate group that met in this same room. 159 00:14:09,630 --> 00:14:12,440 Yeah. It's really like, I don't know, I, yeah, I, 160 00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:16,000 I've been kind of living with this story for a couple years now, 161 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,520 and I still am just sort of taken aback by, by this, 162 00:14:20,650 --> 00:14:24,800 by the story of this piano. And yeah, so you're exactly right. There was, um, 163 00:14:25,610 --> 00:14:30,120 uh, yeah, uh, they call themselves a church group, but it's really, um, 164 00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:35,160 a hate group and, you know, very well documented in, in these parts. Um, 165 00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:38,120 unfortunately they've gotten a lot of press, which, you know, 166 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,640 these kinds of groups thrive on attention. Yeah. Um, but yeah, 167 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,280 I just like thinking about this piano, 168 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,400 sitting in that room and hearing some of the things that were said. You know, 169 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,680 it's a very, uh, humbling, um, 170 00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:54,400 feeling that this piano now is, uh, 171 00:14:56,060 --> 00:14:57,080 for me, it's, 172 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:02,080 it's transforming what it had been absorbing into something positive 173 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,880 and and beautiful and bringing people together in a way that that group 174 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:08,280 was never gonna do. 175 00:15:08,630 --> 00:15:13,440 I really relate to what you're saying about kind of releasing or helping 176 00:15:13,460 --> 00:15:16,120 the piano to release its stories, 177 00:15:16,460 --> 00:15:19,320 but it's so hard to like put that into words. Um. 178 00:15:19,330 --> 00:15:22,560 It really is. Oh my gosh, thank you for saying that. Because , 179 00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:26,040 I also have a hard time talking about it cuz it feels so, 180 00:15:26,930 --> 00:15:30,640 so loaded. And also like, you know, I don't, 181 00:15:30,950 --> 00:15:33,960 I don't wanna get too like, woohoo about this . 182 00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:36,800 But you can if you wanna like. 183 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,040 . But I do, you know, for, 184 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,760 for me that this is why I'm a musician is about that moment 185 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,560 of connection and, and bringing people together and, 186 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:52,320 and having music be the sort of catalyst for, for, for, 187 00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:56,360 for connection and community. Um, and so, you know, 188 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,520 the fact that this instrument was in that room, 189 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:03,480 which really was the antithesis of what I feel like music is about and 190 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,680 instruments, you know, it felt like a very, 191 00:16:06,490 --> 00:16:11,400 it just felt very important that this piano be used for 192 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,160 something that was the opposite of that. 193 00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:18,800 I've watched the live performances of, um, oh, 194 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,040 I forgot the name of the piece. We just listened to the. 195 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:21,760 Cs that made us. 196 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:23,760 the Cs that made us That's okay. Sorry. 197 00:16:23,930 --> 00:16:24,280 No. 198 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,560 No worries. And well, in the, in both videos is that, I mean, 199 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,240 it must be the piano, like that's the piano that you're playing in those videos. 200 00:16:31,330 --> 00:16:36,200 Um, well, there's one live video that is on that piano, yeah. Mm-hmm. 201 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,880 . And then there's another one that's, you know, 202 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:43,800 a more music video of that same piece that we shot outside. 203 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,480 And that is actually not that piano that you're seeing, 204 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,880 but it's the recording from the album. So it is what you're hearing. 205 00:16:49,050 --> 00:16:53,280 Oh yeah. So the video, that video is great. Um, well, 206 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,400 both videos are great. Others, I, I love this kind of conversation. I'm like, 207 00:16:57,410 --> 00:16:59,360 oh yeah, I, when talk about that video. Oh, but wait, 208 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,680 I wanna off talk about that other bit. The, um, official music video, 209 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:03,680 not the live performance. 210 00:17:03,730 --> 00:17:07,680 It was really interesting the way it was filmed and I didn't catch it the first 211 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,880 time, strangely, because now that I watch, I'm like, oh, obviously this is, uh, 212 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,800 it, it appears to be in slow motion. 213 00:17:14,270 --> 00:17:15,103 Yeah. 214 00:17:15,430 --> 00:17:19,880 What, this is just a, like, how'd you do that? Like, could be, cause you're, 215 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,000 you're playing with the recording like the, it's the, 216 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,560 the studio recording of the piece. Um, 217 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,040 you know what I'm talking about Better than I can explain it. So how, what did, 218 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,280 how, what was entailed or was entailed in creating that video? 219 00:17:32,890 --> 00:17:37,280 Um, yeah, . So basically, yeah, we shot it in slow motion, 220 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,600 which meant that we had to make a track that was sped up 221 00:17:42,090 --> 00:17:46,200 to the right, you know, ratio of time for the slowing down. 222 00:17:47,050 --> 00:17:51,720 Um, and yeah, I, I had to practice playing it fast, 223 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:52,890 . 224 00:17:52,890 --> 00:17:53,760 Oh yeah. Which. 225 00:17:53,980 --> 00:17:58,040 You know, and so like obviously, um, if you're, 226 00:17:58,090 --> 00:18:00,360 if you're really paying attention, you know, 227 00:18:00,420 --> 00:18:04,600 you can see it's not really lining up and that's okay. Um, 228 00:18:04,820 --> 00:18:06,920 but we wanted this, 229 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,920 this kind of gauzy dreamlike sense and that there's this piano 230 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,480 and this pianist playing outside. Um, and so I think it, 231 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,520 it honestly doesn't even really matter that it, it doesn't, you know, 232 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:21,760 cuz it's kind of dreamlike, 233 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,720 so it's not like you're really seeing a performance of this, of this song. 234 00:18:26,780 --> 00:18:28,680 But, but in any case, yes, 235 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,120 I had to play it fast and on this piano that was outdoors that just 236 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,480 sounded so incredibly terrible. 237 00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:39,440 And everyone around me , I was just like, oh my God, 238 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,480 I'm so sorry for what you're hearing right now, . 239 00:18:43,460 --> 00:18:47,320 Was it, were you worried that I've, I'm just imagined myself playing it, 240 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,960 like wanting to tell everyone, Hey, everyone, this isn't, this isn't the record. 241 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,640 This isn't the thing that you're hearing. Yeah. 242 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,640 , this is something else. Like, neighbors walking by and I was like, 243 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,960 this isn't actually, I like, yeah. 244 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:02,000 . Yeah. But, you know, you achieved, and I think part of like, 245 00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:04,040 I was kind of joking that I just didn't, 246 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:09,040 didn't realize at first that it was slow motion, but that kind of was, 247 00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:12,920 is what's so cool about the effects because I didn't realize it and it did just 248 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,440 have this dreamlike quality that I didn't really register. 249 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,800 Something different was happening. It just felt very dreamlike. 250 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:24,200 But then I realized like, oh wait, this dancer is moving slowly but fat. Like, 251 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,960 yeah. So yeah, it's a, it's a really cool effect. 252 00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:32,240 Will you ever perform these pieces on a different piano? Like, does that, 253 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,560 or they feel like they're just really attached to this instrument? 254 00:19:35,070 --> 00:19:38,200 Yeah, that's, I've been getting that question a lot and I, 255 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,960 I have actually played some of the pieces on different pianos. 256 00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:47,880 Um, both, both grands and uprights and yeah. At, 257 00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:52,360 I think some of the pieces work better than others on different pianos. 258 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:55,800 Like the ones that are more textual, um, 259 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,680 don't work as well, I feel like mm-hmm. . 260 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,280 Cause there's also a lot of sound design in the recording, um, 261 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,400 which I think a lot of people don't realize perhaps on first, listen, you know, 262 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,800 they were very intentionally recorded and then also produced in a certain way. 263 00:20:11,970 --> 00:20:13,880 Um, so yeah, I'm, 264 00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:17,960 I'm definitely wrapping my mind around how 265 00:20:18,770 --> 00:20:22,440 to perform these pieces out in the world and, 266 00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:26,680 and I've done it and I'll, I'll keep doing it, but I'm also in the process of, 267 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,280 of reimagining them. Um, 268 00:20:29,690 --> 00:20:34,480 so I've been just thinking about how I can play 269 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,400 these in, in ways that are just really very different from the album. 270 00:20:38,410 --> 00:20:42,920 So it's not like, it feels like a lesser version, you know what I mean? . 271 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,960 Yeah. Yeah. That makes perfect sense because a lot of, I mean, 272 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,720 I was thinking of when I was listening to it, 273 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,720 the lot of the character of the pieces would not be 274 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,440 represented on a brighter, more like I, 275 00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:58,960 anything I wanna say. Like, 276 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,920 the thing I love about the pieces and the way the piano sounds are it's 277 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,120 imperfections. . Yeah. 278 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:07,960 So I'm trying to find a way to talk about the imperfections in a way 279 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,160 that they're perfectly, they're perfectly imperfect , but you know, like, 280 00:21:12,580 --> 00:21:13,960 but there's a sound to the, 281 00:21:14,210 --> 00:21:18,720 to the piano that you perform on that 282 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,400 isn't, yeah. Anyway, I think I'm restating what you already said. It's. 283 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:24,020 Okay. 284 00:21:24,020 --> 00:21:27,160 But that does make sense and it's really interesting to think of the pieces 285 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,920 themselves having a different life and being reinvented 286 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,200 for a different instrument. 287 00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:35,440 Yeah. Yeah. It's, 288 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,800 it's a big question in my mind right now because I feel like the, you know, 289 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,840 so much of my creative output for the last like two years has been centered 290 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,360 around this piano. And it really took me through the pandemic and, you know, 291 00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:49,360 some very dark days. 292 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:53,760 And I was at home with this instrument making music and recording, 293 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:58,400 and now it's like I have to , I have to journey beyond that the, 294 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,920 the safety of this instrument. And, um, 295 00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:06,600 and I think it's, it's, it's new music, but it's also, uh, 296 00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:10,800 yeah. Re-imagining what I've already written for that instrument. 297 00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:14,680 Part of this album. And the composition of this album, um, 298 00:22:15,330 --> 00:22:19,440 relates to your processing of some grief. Did I read that correctly? 299 00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:20,800 That you'd lost your dad? 300 00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:25,520 Yeah, yeah. You know, the, um, so that was in, 301 00:22:26,330 --> 00:22:30,600 in 2015 and it was, it was pretty sudden. 302 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,800 And then I, um, 303 00:22:33,250 --> 00:22:37,680 so then my f my last album Histories, uh, was really a very like, 304 00:22:37,710 --> 00:22:42,080 direct kind of synthesis of, of that experience and, 305 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,280 and trying to connect to, um, 306 00:22:45,650 --> 00:22:50,360 my family and ancestry that in a way because of him being gone. 307 00:22:51,020 --> 00:22:53,800 And then, and then this album, I actually, um, 308 00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:59,600 hadn't originally really thought of it in that way, but then as I was, 309 00:22:59,770 --> 00:23:03,720 as I was coming to the, to the finish line of working on this album, 310 00:23:04,620 --> 00:23:08,000 and, and it's really so different from histories, but as, 311 00:23:08,330 --> 00:23:11,760 as I was thinking about it, it, it's like, wow, this, 312 00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:16,040 it's all the same themes, , like, whether I like it or not, 313 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,960 like I feel like I'm still kind of processing, um, you know, 314 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,720 what it means to, to lose a parent, 315 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,120 what it means to lose a connection to um, you know, 316 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:32,960 to their, to their family, to their country, um, in this case for me. 317 00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:37,800 And, uh, it's just a, yeah. So yes, 318 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,920 and I didn't, I didn't realize that until kind of late in the, 319 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:42,753 in the process. 320 00:23:43,270 --> 00:23:48,160 Yeah. It's the, it's, uh, it, yeah. You know, 321 00:23:48,270 --> 00:23:52,320 it's a process and it's a thing that we think, yeah, I, there's, 322 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,200 I did some work about the, um, 323 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,680 like some creative work and other kinds of work about the loss of my mom and, 324 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,480 and a lot, it was a very healing process, 325 00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:06,800 but also like making art about something like that really 326 00:24:07,170 --> 00:24:11,920 reveals more than . You might, you might realize, 327 00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:15,360 well you probably realize cuz you've in that process too. 328 00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:20,560 Yeah, yeah. Totally. Um, and of course this is, um, 329 00:24:21,030 --> 00:24:22,880 I mean this is why we make art, right? Like the, 330 00:24:22,980 --> 00:24:27,400 the most personal things that we can imagine 331 00:24:27,660 --> 00:24:32,600 are actually what brings other people in Right. And connects us. 332 00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:37,360 And, and of course, grief and loss and death is really like . 333 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:41,560 If there's one thing that ev we can connect with, with everyone, it's, 334 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,480 it's that. Right. Um, I mean it's such, uh, 335 00:24:45,490 --> 00:24:50,240 an all-encompassing thing that every single human being goes through. 336 00:24:51,530 --> 00:24:56,360 Um, so yeah, I think there, I've gone through stages of like, 337 00:24:56,380 --> 00:25:00,120 wow, this feels so gratuitous. Like I'm all of my art, 338 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:04,160 all of my music is about like me and these very personal things, 339 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:09,000 but of course that's, that's what it is and that's what other people connect to. 340 00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:13,600 Yeah. Yeah. It's a, that's a ongoing challenge, 341 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,720 especially being a, a solo artist. I, 342 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,080 I know you're not entirely a solo artist, 343 00:25:19,420 --> 00:25:24,000 but like doing a lot of work that's just your music and you performing it. 344 00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:27,080 And I'm relating to that cuz I do a lot of that too, 345 00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:30,280 that it's easy to fall into. And maybe even those, uh, 346 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,480 I always forget the RuPaul has a perfect name for like the inner, 347 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,480 inner inner saboteur, um, that little inner critic that's like, oh, 348 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,040 here you go again. Making your art about you that you're going to, 349 00:25:43,820 --> 00:25:48,680 you know, well do, do you experience that level of, 350 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,280 um, the, uh, self self-criticism? 351 00:25:52,850 --> 00:25:57,800 Oh my gosh, of course. Yeah. of course. Um, I mean, 352 00:25:58,030 --> 00:26:02,720 yeah. You know, like leading up to an album release, I feel like, you know, 353 00:26:03,030 --> 00:26:06,880 it's not a real release if you don't go through at least like, 354 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,800 a few, few periods of just like, wow, 355 00:26:10,830 --> 00:26:14,720 I can't release like, this should never see the light of day, like , 356 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,640 you know? Yeah. Um, and it's, I mean, it's intense. 357 00:26:17,710 --> 00:26:19,960 It's really intense and I think, you know, 358 00:26:20,650 --> 00:26:24,960 an album that comes out like all people see is this beautiful finished product 359 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,400 and it's like, man, you know, 360 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,800 there were two plus years of just like going through these 361 00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:35,200 cycles of, of writing and feeling really great about it, 362 00:26:35,260 --> 00:26:38,920 and then cycles of just despair, 363 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,200 that you've spent all this time on something that you don't feel good 364 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,520 about. Um, and I don't know, it's, it's, uh, 365 00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:49,120 it's like we know every artist goes through this, 366 00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:53,960 but I also feel like it's not always talked about. 367 00:26:54,350 --> 00:26:54,840 Yeah. 368 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,960 Yeah. And it's hard even, 369 00:26:58,470 --> 00:27:02,400 even after having experienced my own version of that, 370 00:27:02,750 --> 00:27:06,560 it's hard to remember how real it is when it starts happening. Mm-hmm. 371 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,920 and that feeling like that feel I like am so connecting with that 372 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,280 feeling of like, oh my God, what is this? Like this. 373 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:15,520 What have I done? Yes. 374 00:27:15,710 --> 00:27:20,320 I can't, oh my God, what was, I think like yeah. All of that stuff. Yeah. 375 00:27:20,350 --> 00:27:25,120 Yeah. I'm really happy that you got past all of that and, 376 00:27:25,140 --> 00:27:26,640 and have released this album. 377 00:27:26,990 --> 00:27:30,720 Yeah. Well, and I will say that I feel very, 378 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,080 very lucky that my husband Sam is the one who, 379 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,320 who produced the album with me and, and engineered it, you know, 380 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:43,280 and he obviously knows me better than anyone 381 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,160 really. Yeah. And so, you know, the darkest times, 382 00:27:46,350 --> 00:27:49,640 like it was just good to have someone right there mm-hmm. 383 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,760 that was so deeply in my corner and just like, 384 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,120 understood this music and this project as well as I, 385 00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:00,600 or even better at certain times, you know? And so having that, 386 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,080 that person there I think was, 387 00:28:03,140 --> 00:28:07,120 was just really crucial Yeah. 388 00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:08,640 And not everyone has that, you know? 389 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,840 And so I feel very fortunate that that was the case and I think it, um, 390 00:28:13,010 --> 00:28:16,800 it also informed the music in a lot of ways and the way that, 391 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,520 that it turned out in the end. 392 00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:20,680 Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. I, 393 00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:24,000 I was wondering about the production and all of that kind of stuff, 394 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,400 so that's interesting. Like, 395 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,320 it's interestingly in-house within like your relationship anyway. 396 00:28:30,430 --> 00:28:34,320 Yeah. It's extremely in-house . Yeah. Everything was in-house, 397 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,880 which was, um, another big, big difference with, 398 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,160 with Histories, um, you know, 399 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,160 where I went to the place and recorded with the person and 400 00:28:46,450 --> 00:28:47,560 uh, you know, 401 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,560 and it's just a very different experience for this album. 402 00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:56,600 You know, I, I really feel like this music, it, 403 00:28:57,420 --> 00:29:00,670 I don't know that I would've gotten to the place that I really needed to get to 404 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,110 in terms of the intimacy and the, the vulnerability of it. 405 00:29:04,110 --> 00:29:05,750 If I had been going to a studio, 406 00:29:06,290 --> 00:29:08,870 and of course it would've been an entirely different thing anyway, 407 00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:11,670 cuz it would've been a different piano and whatever, that's a different project. 408 00:29:12,250 --> 00:29:15,830 But just having that experience of being able to, 409 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,470 to play that this piano with this person recording, you know, I think it, 410 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:22,790 it made the album what it is. 411 00:29:23,220 --> 00:29:26,710 Yeah. Oh, I was, 412 00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:30,950 I did a podcast interview earlier today and I, we both kind of confessed to, 413 00:29:31,010 --> 00:29:31,460 she, 414 00:29:31,460 --> 00:29:36,230 they are also a podcaster and that we like do podcasting to have an 415 00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:39,310 opportunity to have conversations with people that we wouldn't otherwise. 416 00:29:39,610 --> 00:29:42,160 And this is one of those conversations like, oh, this, um, 417 00:29:42,390 --> 00:29:45,880 I love getting this type of insight about a piece of work like your album. 418 00:29:45,930 --> 00:29:48,920 So yeah. Thanks for . Side note. 419 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,160 Thanks for sharing all of all this stuff. Course. 420 00:29:51,650 --> 00:29:55,720 So the album is called Inner Softening and you make a lot of references 421 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,400 throughout like your website and I think I saw it on band camp, 422 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,720 like different places, um, how, I can't remember the exact, 423 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,680 something about Softies or an album for Softies did I See? Or something. 424 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,760 Like that. Yeah. Music for Softies, I call myself a softie. Yeah, yeah. 425 00:30:11,410 --> 00:30:14,560 Is there more than just that in the, um, 426 00:30:14,820 --> 00:30:17,680 composition of the album or how you looked at creating it? 427 00:30:19,850 --> 00:30:24,680 Oh, that's a big question. . Yeah. Um, well, so as you've, 428 00:30:25,050 --> 00:30:28,600 as you've gathered, I have very much, uh, 429 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:33,400 latched onto this word soft. And, and it, it happens, you know, 430 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,120 right away when I first encountered this piano and, you know, just kind of very, 431 00:30:38,390 --> 00:30:42,160 very technically, physically the piano is, is very soft. 432 00:30:43,130 --> 00:30:47,360 Um, and, and so, you know, kind of right away I was, 433 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,400 I was just imagining this very soft piano being in this 434 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,200 building that had been so hard and, and hateful for so long. 435 00:30:56,940 --> 00:31:00,840 And I just started chewing on the word soft and all of it's 436 00:31:01,190 --> 00:31:05,640 incredible meanings in, in so many different ways, you know? 437 00:31:06,610 --> 00:31:10,680 Um, and it's just, I don't know, I just fell in love with this word and, 438 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,640 and all of its connotations and, um, 439 00:31:15,420 --> 00:31:18,840 and I think as I was, as I was writing the music, you know, 440 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,720 it just kept running through my mind this idea of softness and how I can 441 00:31:23,870 --> 00:31:28,520 create an album experience that invites people into 442 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,680 softness, whatever that might mean for them. You know, I mean, I have a, 443 00:31:32,830 --> 00:31:36,760 a laundry list of, of definitions, um, you know, 444 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,640 softness of our hearts and minds and bodies and how we interact with 445 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,760 other people. Like, I just love this idea of like soft bodies 446 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,080 squishing together. Like there's, 447 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,440 there's the connection that happens there as opposed to like hardness where 448 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,440 things can't, um, interact in the same way. Yeah. 449 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,400 If that makes any sense. So yeah, it did, uh, 450 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,640 it really informed everything with this album and, 451 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,680 and it just started purely because of this very soft instrument. 452 00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:14,480 That description of the instrument is kind of what I was trying to find earlier 453 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,760 when I was trying not to to insult the piano. , 454 00:32:19,930 --> 00:32:22,880 no. Like, there's the, the piano itself is so soft, 455 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,800 and I think that's what made me really wonder about performing these pieces on a 456 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,320 different instrument because in general, 457 00:32:29,390 --> 00:32:34,120 some of the sound that you achieve in these pieces sounds like it's the 458 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,240 piano, you know, like it's, 459 00:32:35,550 --> 00:32:38,320 some of the notes that are really intentionally brought out 460 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,120 probably take more effort than they would on a, on a different piano. 461 00:32:44,550 --> 00:32:48,800 Just like so much of the kind of a, I think of it as like a wash feeling. 462 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,760 Sound like the, there's not a lot of attack on the, on the notes. Um, 463 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,160 yeah, that's true. So yeah, so that's what I think really, uh, 464 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,520 what I was wondering about, which you already answered, 465 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,400 but it may suddenly, I'm like, oh yeah, soft , that's, 466 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,680 that's the compliment I want for this piano. . 467 00:33:07,530 --> 00:33:11,880 It is very, very soft . Yeah. 468 00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:14,640 I love when, uh, you know, 469 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:19,520 people come over and play a little bit on the piano and 470 00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:24,040 have similar reactions as I did the first time. And, and it's just, it, 471 00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:28,440 I think it, it pulls you in because it's so intimate, it's so soft, 472 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,680 and so it just kind of forces you to listen very carefully. 473 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,520 And then you start hearing all the, the clicks and the mm-hmm. 474 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,280 mechanical sounds, and then you hear, you know, 475 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,160 and so it just kind of takes you on this journey with this instrument. 476 00:33:43,290 --> 00:33:46,240 Um, and of course, listening intently and, 477 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,400 and carefully and softly is also a huge part of, 478 00:33:50,050 --> 00:33:54,400 of what I imagine for, for this album and, and a listening experience, you know? 479 00:33:55,030 --> 00:33:59,000 Yeah. And just for , for your, for your notes, 480 00:33:59,690 --> 00:34:03,000 uh, the album has the same experience, you know, as you're listening, 481 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,280 as I was listening, different things started to uncover as, you know, 482 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,440 as you settle into like, okay, here's where we are. 483 00:34:10,740 --> 00:34:13,880 And you can start listening to more different things and the different clicks of 484 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,320 the piano and the rhythms of the, of the clicks that, you know, like, 485 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:22,120 they feel separate and part of what's happening. It's, 486 00:34:22,150 --> 00:34:24,520 it's, it's so cool. I really love it. 487 00:34:24,610 --> 00:34:25,520 Aw, thank you. 488 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,800 . Uh, so speaking of, we should listen to another piece, uh, 489 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,680 before we go, which it's also time to do, um, we're going to listen to, uh, 490 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,840 the closing of the album after Stardust. Um, 491 00:34:38,180 --> 00:34:42,520 and this this will also be our goodbye. Um, is there any, 492 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,480 is there anything particular you wanna, uh, mention about the, 493 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,560 the piece we're gonna listen to? And there doesn't have to be. 494 00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:52,720 Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, I, I really, um, 495 00:34:54,030 --> 00:34:58,160 I, yeah, I, I I try not to give too much, uh, 496 00:34:58,660 --> 00:35:02,520 you know, kind of specific narratives to, to the individual songs. 497 00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:07,400 I really just want people to go to their own, to their own place. 498 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,440 But of course, after Stardust, I always, 499 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,280 I think about Stardust as this kind of unifying thing. Another, 500 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,080 another unifying, uh, 501 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,800 thing for humans that we all kind of come from the same place and, you know, 502 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,840 the first track the seas that made us also, uh, 503 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,040 that we all come from the same primordial soup, you know, . Yeah. 504 00:35:27,610 --> 00:35:30,800 Um, and so yeah, just, uh, like, 505 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,480 I guess the overarching idea that, 506 00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:38,080 that we're all connected and listening to this music or any music or any art, 507 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,520 you know, um, finding those connections with people and, 508 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,320 and so yeah, after Stardust, I guess wherever, wherever it takes you, . 509 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,360 , uh, it has been so great to talk to you and, um, 510 00:35:51,450 --> 00:35:54,520 patrons who are listening, if you want to hear more. Um, 511 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:59,360 we're gonna have a little second, uh, bonus, uh, exclusive interview. 512 00:35:59,610 --> 00:36:02,120 Uh, that'll be on Patreon in a couple of days. Uh, 513 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,640 thank you so much for joining me, Sophia, on that podcast today. 514 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:05,720 Thanks for having me. 515 00:40:05,570 --> 00:40:09,340 That was after Stardust from Sophia, Saba VAs, uh, 516 00:40:09,340 --> 00:40:12,940 from her latest album in our softening. Thank you so much for listening. 517 00:40:12,940 --> 00:40:17,300 Thank you, Sophia, for being on the show today. Um, oh, thank you all. 518 00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:20,220 I legitimately thank you for listening to this podcast. 519 00:40:20,330 --> 00:40:23,660 I know it's not always predictable when you'll hear an episode, um, 520 00:40:23,660 --> 00:40:26,620 and as another thing that I'm going to continue working on. 521 00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:30,340 Cause I love having these conversations and sharing them and discovering new 522 00:40:30,340 --> 00:40:34,420 artists. Uh, so it's a really great process for me and, uh, 523 00:40:34,420 --> 00:40:38,820 it's one that I w am going to continue to try to embrace. Uh, 524 00:40:38,950 --> 00:40:41,820 so there you go. Thank you for listening. If you're a patron, um, 525 00:40:41,950 --> 00:40:44,940 go by patreon.com/michael Herron, uh, 526 00:40:44,940 --> 00:40:49,340 later this week and you'll hear a bonus conversation with Sophia Sava VAs. 527 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,220 And, um, I think that's everything. Um, 528 00:40:53,220 --> 00:40:56,100 I have a couple new interviews that are ready to go. Um, 529 00:40:56,100 --> 00:41:00,300 so I'll be releasing those shortly, perhaps in the next two weeks. 530 00:41:00,790 --> 00:41:04,780 Um, one, uh, I'm, I'm going back to my goal of doing every Monday podcast, 531 00:41:05,150 --> 00:41:09,100 so we'll see how that goes. And regardless, sincerely, 532 00:41:09,100 --> 00:41:12,220 thank you for listening up. Your new year is wonderful, 533 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,780 and I will talk to you soon. Bye.