1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:05,600 Hello, and welcome to Mikey Podd podcast, episode 353 for 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:09,120 October 31st, 2022. Happy Halloween. 3 00:00:09,210 --> 00:00:13,160 Today's guest is Cat Lover Martina Myo. I mean, 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,800 she's also a prolific Pulitzer Prize winning playwright, 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:17,720 who that's a lot of Pease in a robe, 6 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:22,720 prolific Pulitzer Prize winning playwright whose play another p Cost 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,280 of Living just happens to be on Broadway. But we're all here for the Cat chat, 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,840 right? I'm your host, Michael Herron. I'm a composer, pianist, 9 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:31,360 electronic musician, storyteller, 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,440 and perhaps a bit dormant activist based in New York City. On this podcast, 11 00:00:35,550 --> 00:00:40,200 I have conversations with fellow creators who use their creativity to change the 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,040 world. I've been sending this podcast to your ears for well over 17 years. 13 00:00:44,130 --> 00:00:45,240 If you like what you hear, 14 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,120 subscribe using the colorful buttons in the sidebar and footer@mikeypodd.com. 15 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,000 Or just search Mikey Podd in your favorite podcast directory. 16 00:00:52,050 --> 00:00:55,560 If you'd like to know more about me, stop by my website at Michael Herron. Uh, 17 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,720 you can find me on Twitter, Twitter, 18 00:00:57,850 --> 00:01:01,640 Michael Herron at Michael Herron and all my other social media's turned off 19 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,480 right now. We've, I've gone on and on about that enough. So yeah, 20 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:05,270 welcome to the show. 21 00:01:05,270 --> 00:01:08,920 I really wanna get to the interview and some music that I have to share with you 22 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,000 too. Really great music from future guests. Um, 23 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,560 so I'm not doing my usual check in. 24 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,960 There's not really anything to report anyway. Um, 25 00:01:16,090 --> 00:01:20,480 so let's go right to the part where I thank my subscribers on Patreon for 26 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,560 powering this podcast. I have a lot of plosives today. Uh, 27 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,200 these are people who subscribe for $5 or more a month and get special perks, 28 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,680 like tons of free downloads of my music and zines and bonus podcasts. 29 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,680 There are over 70 of them that you'll have immediate access to when you 30 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,000 subscribe, including this week's bonus episode, 31 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,840 which features an extended conversation with today's guest, Martina Myo, 32 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:47,120 where we will be talking about cats. We really are gonna talk about cats in the, 33 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:47,960 uh, bonus podcast. 34 00:01:47,980 --> 00:01:51,960 Did you figure out that we're not only talking about cats in our 35 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,040 conversation on this podcast, Um, 36 00:01:54,220 --> 00:01:58,680 and in the bonus we're gonna be also talking about her surprising distaste for 37 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,560 writing, which I was surprised to find out about, 38 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,480 but also could really relate to. So, um, 39 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,720 that'll be up on Patreon in a couple of days. patreon.com/michael Herron. 40 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,560 I'm very aware of my PS right now. Um, 41 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:16,160 can I give a shout out to the pop filter that I'm, Why does pop filter have a p? 42 00:02:17,190 --> 00:02:20,320 Anyway, I have some music for you today. Also, 43 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,480 you may remember from back in July of 2020, 44 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,760 I talked to a brilliant composer by the name, name of Molly Joyce. Um, 45 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,400 you can always go back and listen to that episode. Uh, 46 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,120 her work focuses on disability as a creative source. 47 00:02:33,180 --> 00:02:36,840 She has a new album that came out just last week called Perspective, 48 00:02:36,940 --> 00:02:40,720 and she's gonna be a guest on the podcast in a couple of weeks, uh, 49 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,120 to talk about the album. Um, but I wanna share a track with you from it today. 50 00:02:44,330 --> 00:02:47,560 Um, she, the premise of this album is that she interviewed, 51 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,760 I believe it was 47 different people, um, 52 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,760 about these various words on, um, 53 00:02:54,950 --> 00:02:59,000 that are track names of the tracks on the album. And, um, you'll hear, 54 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,120 hear the responses, uh, to this track. It's called Connection. And, um, 55 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,760 she wove the responses together with her, uh, original music. 56 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,360 She's a really intriguing composer of new music 57 00:03:12,020 --> 00:03:14,360 and ah, I love it, . 58 00:03:14,610 --> 00:03:18,760 So it felt like a great fit for today's show. And, um, 59 00:03:18,910 --> 00:03:20,720 I just really want you to listen to this album, 60 00:03:20,730 --> 00:03:23,640 so hopefully you're in a place where you could really just sit and listen to, 61 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,360 uh, the words you're about here, the music you're about here. Um, 62 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:31,200 and get ready for our conversation today with playwright Martina My 63 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,000 Oak. This is Connection by Molly Joyce. 64 00:03:34,790 --> 00:03:36,560 What is connection for you? 65 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:38,113 . 66 00:03:42,740 --> 00:03:47,720 And the connections among people are impossible for you to understand because 67 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,800 a shimmer distorts the interactions, 68 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,520 much like a shattered mirror provides no coherent image, 69 00:03:53,970 --> 00:03:56,960 so you glean only pieces of scattered reflections. 70 00:03:59,860 --> 00:04:04,240 Eye contact, and more than just looking at someone's iris, 71 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,400 but actually looking into their pupils when you speak to them. 72 00:04:09,710 --> 00:04:12,280 Connecting with friends and family 73 00:04:14,190 --> 00:04:15,040 connection. 74 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,210 Like we all I know talking to face to face. 75 00:04:23,270 --> 00:04:28,040 I live at this intersection of autism or neuro 76 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:29,920 divergence and poetry. 77 00:04:31,470 --> 00:04:36,440 I've been trying to think about why these things feel so wedded 78 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,440 to each other in particular ways. 79 00:04:38,820 --> 00:04:42,360 And I think connection is a big part of it. 80 00:04:42,540 --> 00:04:46,480 And I think it's also what scares people about both of them. 81 00:04:47,380 --> 00:04:50,760 The neuro divergent people in my life, 82 00:04:51,590 --> 00:04:55,160 they really cut through all the bullshit right away, 83 00:04:55,580 --> 00:04:58,960 and they want to talk about the real stuff. 84 00:04:59,180 --> 00:05:02,160 And it's so refreshing. 85 00:05:04,150 --> 00:05:06,320 I think, honestly, coming out to the pandemic, I, 86 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,760 I feel so disconnected with so many things. I think I'm struggling to, 87 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,750 to answer that question because I don't really know if I feel connected to much 88 00:05:15,750 --> 00:05:16,583 of anything right now. 89 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,570 Having inside connections as well as like outside connections. 90 00:05:24,770 --> 00:05:28,980 Really feeling like you're safe 91 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:34,180 and seen and heard, and that you can just be your, like, 92 00:05:34,460 --> 00:05:35,293 complete full self. 93 00:05:36,330 --> 00:05:39,940 I think this idea of like being seen and, 94 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,780 and like, understood. 95 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:47,740 How is the world created for you? 96 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,700 And if it's not created for you, 97 00:05:51,090 --> 00:05:56,020 what are you going to do with the support of family, friends, 98 00:05:56,020 --> 00:05:57,760 community, resources? 99 00:05:57,830 --> 00:06:02,200 What are you gonna do to make that a more of a 100 00:06:02,870 --> 00:06:04,640 living reality for you? 101 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,520 There is a level of trust when collaborating with another disabled person 102 00:06:09,890 --> 00:06:14,080 because of that sort of, you know, that experience of, 103 00:06:14,820 --> 00:06:17,240 you know, enduring ableism. 104 00:06:19,330 --> 00:06:21,280 If you struggling to live, 105 00:06:21,870 --> 00:06:25,280 connection is the slightest thing in your mind, 106 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,740 you connected to try to have stability. 107 00:06:33,330 --> 00:06:37,860 Connection is why I'm a storyteller. Uh, connection is the bridge. 108 00:06:40,010 --> 00:06:41,460 Acting with my friends 109 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,190 to me includes both my literal 110 00:06:50,230 --> 00:06:51,110 physical dimension, 111 00:06:51,450 --> 00:06:56,270 but also the empty spaces that exist within me. 112 00:06:56,890 --> 00:07:01,670 And a component that includes both the emptiness that I carry 113 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:07,520 and the, the more overt structure I carry. 114 00:07:18,110 --> 00:07:21,260 Joining me now on the podcast is Martina Myo, 115 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,060 who is a playwright, a Pulitzer Prize winner, all kinds of great stuff. 116 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,780 And now the guest on Wiki Fad, welcome to the podcast. 117 00:07:30,020 --> 00:07:31,340 Thank you for having me. 118 00:07:31,410 --> 00:07:35,860 I feel like I'm behind the times. I saw cost of Living this past weekend, 119 00:07:36,290 --> 00:07:39,740 kind of not knowing what I was gonna see. Um, 120 00:07:39,740 --> 00:07:41,340 and I didn't know anything about your work. 121 00:07:41,340 --> 00:07:44,780 And now that I'm investigating it and very excited, I'm like, Oh, this, like, 122 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,620 I'm behind . So there's so much you've done, 123 00:07:48,620 --> 00:07:50,660 but because Cost of Living is what I've seen, 124 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,660 I'd love to talk to you about it a little bit, 125 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:57,060 and I read a little bit about your history. Um, so there's so much to discuss. 126 00:07:57,350 --> 00:07:58,183 Um. 127 00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:01,220 Yeah, I thank you for seeing it. Also. Isn't that the best, 128 00:08:01,220 --> 00:08:03,860 like when you just don't, don't know anything about a show? Can you walk in? 129 00:08:03,860 --> 00:08:08,180 Yeah, I love it. And my sister is seeing it, uh, next week. Oh, okay. 130 00:08:08,180 --> 00:08:11,620 Maybe the week after. And she's doing the same thing and she won't let mention, 131 00:08:11,620 --> 00:08:14,300 she won't let me say anything about it or anything about you. She's like, 132 00:08:14,300 --> 00:08:16,180 I don't know anything. I just wanna go in. Which. 133 00:08:16,180 --> 00:08:18,300 Is great. It's, it's so rare too. Like that's the best. 134 00:08:18,490 --> 00:08:21,540 Yeah. So for people who may, 135 00:08:21,540 --> 00:08:24,980 who are listening who may not get the chance to see the play anytime soon 136 00:08:24,980 --> 00:08:29,420 because they're not in New York City, is there a, uh, what am I trying, 137 00:08:29,420 --> 00:08:32,420 like an elevator pitch about what the show? That sounds terrible, 138 00:08:32,420 --> 00:08:32,940 but you know what I. 139 00:08:32,940 --> 00:08:36,260 Mean. Oh no. Gosh, Yeah. I've sent 'em so bad at these. Uh, so, so like, 140 00:08:36,260 --> 00:08:39,260 let's see, to play about loneliness, to play about caregiving, 141 00:08:39,370 --> 00:08:43,660 it's a play about our interconnectedness. The plot of it, I guess, 142 00:08:43,660 --> 00:08:47,140 is that there's, we're following two sets of two sets of couples. 143 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,060 One of them is, um, Eddie and Annie. And, um, 144 00:08:51,060 --> 00:08:55,140 Eddie is an unemployed, recently unemployed truck driver. Uh, 145 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,440 and Annie is his estranged wife. 146 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:02,240 And the two of them come back together when Annie, uh, 147 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,360 is in a car accident, which leaps her quadriplegic. And, um, 148 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:11,000 Eddie begins being her caregiver and it's the, we follow how they sort of come, 149 00:09:11,310 --> 00:09:12,760 come back together in a way. 150 00:09:13,020 --> 00:09:16,320 And the other couple is John and Jess. 151 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:21,160 And John is a PhD graduate student in political science 152 00:09:21,170 --> 00:09:26,160 at Princeton, um, who has cerebral palsy. And he hires Jess, 153 00:09:26,180 --> 00:09:30,840 who is a first generation immigrant who just graduated undergrad at 154 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,720 Princeton and is dealing with, um, a lot of financial instability, uh, 155 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,960 to be, she hires her to be his caregiver. And it's also, 156 00:09:39,170 --> 00:09:41,560 we follow how they're challenged by and also brought, 157 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:46,480 brought together by their differences. Um, and, uh, it's a little, 158 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,960 it's a little sexy. It's a little, it's a little funny. 159 00:09:48,990 --> 00:09:52,480 It's a little ghosty . Uh, yeah, that was a really long, 160 00:09:52,570 --> 00:09:55,160 So we basically got to the 96 floor with that elevator pitch. 161 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:56,600 That was a little too long. . 162 00:09:57,410 --> 00:09:57,760 No, 163 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,320 but it was great because I feel like one of the things about talking to you on 164 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,880 the podcast I was thinking about was like a lot of people won't, 165 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,320 won't get to see the play. Like they, you know, 166 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,960 people who listen all over the place. Um, so I'm glad that you, 167 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,800 that we got to the 96 floor for that . I really love working, 168 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,040 this is kind of what I do on the podcast, 169 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,800 is talk to people who use their work to as activism or as like raising social 170 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,280 awareness and that type of thing. And the thing that can be really challenging, 171 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,760 this, this type of thing, as I'm sure you know, 172 00:10:28,210 --> 00:10:32,280 is trying to be inclusive or address some of the, 173 00:10:32,890 --> 00:10:36,960 it even feels corny to say address the issues that you do with this play. 174 00:10:37,650 --> 00:10:42,440 It can come off as very like corny and forced and, um, 175 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:47,040 you know, all of those things that, that sort of undermine your message. Um, 176 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,360 and you've done it so not that you've so. 177 00:10:51,430 --> 00:10:52,263 Like, Oh my God. 178 00:10:53,140 --> 00:10:57,760 And this is a fine example of doing exactly that . No, 179 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,960 but I mean, like what you've done it, 180 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:03,480 you're telling a story and all of these things happen to be a part of the story. 181 00:11:04,170 --> 00:11:05,003 Um, well, 182 00:11:05,210 --> 00:11:09,400 is it a challenge or was it a challenge for you to sort of get to a place and 183 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,680 like some of those topics you wanted to cover, 184 00:11:12,510 --> 00:11:14,720 keep them from being cliched or. 185 00:11:15,070 --> 00:11:17,640 I mean, that's exactly what what you're saying is like, 186 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,760 they happen to be like the, 187 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,760 there are two disabled characters play by two disabled actors in 188 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,400 the cast. There also happen to be two first gen, um, performers that, 189 00:11:28,590 --> 00:11:30,560 that are also first gen. One is an immigrant, 190 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:34,400 one is a one is a first gen character in the, the play. And I, um, 191 00:11:34,990 --> 00:11:39,360 I tend to, I I'm an immigrant. I was born in Poland, um, 192 00:11:39,580 --> 00:11:43,400 and, um, uh, grew up also when I, when I came to America, 193 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,320 I grew up in a largely multicultural immigrant neighborhood in, 194 00:11:47,370 --> 00:11:50,760 in working class neighborhood in North Jersey. And, um, I, 195 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,040 when I first began writing plays, 196 00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:56,520 I was writing plays about my friends and family, um, who, you know, 197 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,800 happened to not have much money and maybe was English was their second language 198 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,160 and all these things that when I started writing, uh, 199 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,280 and sharing it with people from the outside, they were saying, Oh, 200 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,280 you are you writing about immigrants? Why are you writing about low income, um, 201 00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:14,960 people, uh, um, you're, 202 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,760 you're writing about economic instability and how it relates to, to women, 203 00:12:17,770 --> 00:12:20,240 et cetera. And I was like, I guess that is true, Yes. 204 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:25,240 But I was writing my friends and myself and my family once I was aware 205 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,080 that this is how it's gonna be seen as these are stories of people from the 206 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,680 outside because they're, they're the inside for me, , 207 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:35,640 this is my experience, but for the American theater, 208 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,560 they are stories of people from the outside or marginalized communities. 209 00:12:39,780 --> 00:12:42,080 And so I, um, 210 00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:46,960 always wanna make sure I'm being as authentic as possible 211 00:12:47,330 --> 00:12:52,240 to that experience while also inviting people in for 212 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,080 whom that isn't their experience. Um, uh, so that somebody, 213 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,960 somebody who's who I grew up with who would see my play wouldn't think I was 214 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,440 pandering , like, Oh yeah, yeah. It's like how we, 215 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,280 it's like that's our life. Yeah. 216 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,640 But also somebody who's not from that will feel invited into a different, 217 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,520 maybe a different experience that maybe they'll find is actually not that far 218 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,000 off from their experience. It's just sort of a different, different form. So I, 219 00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:18,720 I never consider my plays issue plays, though. They're, 220 00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:22,240 a lot of the characters are dealing with, um, 221 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,200 obstacles that have been created by policy that is just inherent in their 222 00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:31,760 lives. I mean, the last play I wrote was, uh, called Sanctuary City, and it's a, 223 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:32,720 it was about, um, 224 00:13:33,510 --> 00:13:37,840 a friendship between two undocumented teenagers. And so it's not a, 225 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,600 it's not a play quote about immigration. 226 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,840 Cause I don't know how to do that more than, I dunno, 227 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,120 like how do you write a play about women? You know, it's such a, 228 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,880 there's so many this many various versions of those experiences. Um, um, 229 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,400 so it was never like, um, I must write about this identity or this experience, 230 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,240 it just as, or this, um, uh, Id, Yeah, 231 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,600 identity really is, is is more, cause the experience is part of it, 232 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:01,440 but like the, 233 00:14:01,580 --> 00:14:05,880 the political is inherent in the personal for these characters, 234 00:14:06,370 --> 00:14:10,680 um, and these, and these worlds. So, so hopefully, I mean, I, 235 00:14:10,810 --> 00:14:15,120 my my politics might be pretty apparent , which are like, 236 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,200 don't be dix to people and and will survive equally as best, 237 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,440 equally as possible. Uh, but it's never, 238 00:14:22,860 --> 00:14:24,640 I'm never trying to make a polemic. 239 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,440 I'm not trying to make something that feels like it's eating your vegetables. 240 00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:32,480 I'm just, I'm telling people, I'm telling stories of the humans that I know and, 241 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,440 and am, uh, and trying to bring us kind of, kind of connect us, 242 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,960 connect the people in the audience to the people on stage and, um, 243 00:14:40,070 --> 00:14:43,280 make it in an inviting experience, Not a, not a vegetable, 244 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,440 not an eat your vegetables experience. . 245 00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:49,720 That's a great way to put it. But, you know, I think that like, it's, 246 00:14:50,070 --> 00:14:51,000 it's the, um, 247 00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:56,960 when we include stories or tell stories about more different types of people, 248 00:14:57,790 --> 00:15:02,120 that's just what happens, Right. It it, in a way, it sounds like, I mean, 249 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,160 you're writing from your experience, 250 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,960 but also make an effort to include people who don't always, uh, 251 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,200 very rarely show up on mm-hmm. 252 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,440 on a stage just by telling the stories. It seems like you're, 253 00:15:14,630 --> 00:15:16,360 you're hitting it, right? Like. 254 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,760 Well, in this particular instance, I think especially with, um, I, you know, 255 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,520 I'm not disabled. I was a caregiver for, I worked as a caregiver for what, 256 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:25,840 two years. Um, 257 00:15:26,810 --> 00:15:30,440 so I pulled from that experience when I was writing the play, um, 258 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,720 as well as just, um, you know, people that I, 259 00:15:32,910 --> 00:15:36,640 a lot of the characters are composites of people that I know. Um, but there, 260 00:15:36,950 --> 00:15:40,520 I had written in the play the, the notes of the play, Please, 261 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,880 Please Cast Disabled Actors. And, um, 262 00:15:44,190 --> 00:15:47,920 I didn't realize what a big deal that actually would be because there, 263 00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:52,400 I didn't experience with the productions in New York and the productions that I 264 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,680 was involved with. But there had been theaters that, um, 265 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,680 reached out after the play was published. And it goes around for, um, 266 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,200 regionally with, you know, sort of with without me at that point, um, 267 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,640 theaters would reach out and ask me, do I really mean it? Wow. Uh, 268 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,920 and I was like, Yes, I do . Um, do you need help finding, finding, 269 00:16:11,330 --> 00:16:13,640 um, actors? Here's a list. Um, 270 00:16:13,710 --> 00:16:18,280 here's a list of other theater com theater communities and companies that, um, 271 00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:20,880 are devoted to, to, um, 272 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,080 telling disabled stories like Family and Deaf West and tbt. Um, 273 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,320 and some of those theaters did reach out and some just kind of, it was crickets. 274 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:34,080 Like they had no intention actually of changing the way that they, 275 00:16:34,190 --> 00:16:39,000 a lot, a lot of people have typically cast disabled roles, which is, um, 276 00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:44,240 not with non-disabled actors. Uh, so it's like, uh, 277 00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:48,920 I guess that itself is a political act. Um, it's, 278 00:16:49,090 --> 00:16:52,120 it shouldn't be, It seems it doesn't, it seems like so obvious, 279 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,040 why would you not wanna cast disabled actors to portray disabled characters? 280 00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:00,320 But it, um, it's been sort of surprising to me how, how, um, 281 00:17:00,380 --> 00:17:04,520 the response sometimes it's, I, I, it's, it's like, there shouldn't be response, 282 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,680 I guess in my, in my, in my thinking like, Oh, sure, just cast disabled actors. 283 00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:12,960 Um, but there, that ist always the, the way that it's gone. 284 00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:16,200 I, I can't remember where I read this. It was, 285 00:17:16,250 --> 00:17:19,880 it was an interview with a woman who plays, uh, Ani. 286 00:17:20,050 --> 00:17:21,360 Oh, Katie Sullivan. Yeah. 287 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:23,840 Yeah. And she, she was observing, 288 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,440 I can't remember she said she heard it or the, 289 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,440 the people surprised that she was disabled that they Yeah. 290 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,320 That she wasn't an actor who was Yeah, yeah. Like, they were like, Oh, 291 00:17:32,370 --> 00:17:34,000 someone said something like, Oh, 292 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,200 it must have been really hard for her to sit in that chair with her legs tucked 293 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,560 underneath. Yes. Like, 294 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,320 it was just outside of the realm of possibility that that could possibly be a 295 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,080 disabled actor. Yeah. Really interesting. 296 00:17:44,190 --> 00:17:46,520 Yeah. And there's also, this is, um, the other, 297 00:17:46,620 --> 00:17:49,560 the other disabled actor in the cast, spr Mosca, um, 298 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,640 has cerebral palsies play and characterize more who has more intense cerebral 299 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,080 palsy than he has. Um, so he doesn't require, 300 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,960 the actor doesn't require a wheelchair, then they come out on stage. 301 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,720 People don't think that he's disabled. He's, he's heard some really interesting, 302 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,200 interesting and horrible things. Somebody, somebody came up to him after the, 303 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,160 after a show when we did the show Off Broadway. And because he doesn't use a, a, 304 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:18,160 a wheelchair, um, people might not like you, can he, you know, 305 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,880 he says this, he says this openly, so I, I I will share it, but he's like, 306 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,280 You can, you can, you can tell when he walks like that he is disabled. 307 00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:30,520 Um, but because there's never a wheelchair, and it's like not, his, 308 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:35,520 his disability is not as pronounced as, um, as the characters. 309 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,520 People. Somebody at one point came to him and after the show and was like, 310 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,560 Oh my God, thank God you're not actually disabled. And like, 311 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,280 how horrible is that to hear? Like, Oh, thank God, thank God. He's like, 312 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,680 Actually, actually am . But, um, but the judgment of like, 313 00:18:51,170 --> 00:18:55,480 Oh God, thank God, thank God, um, when that's his lived experience. 314 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,440 So it's been, it's been interest. It's, yeah. And then people who are, 315 00:18:58,940 --> 00:19:01,160 who I've heard say like, Oh, they're not, oh, but they, 316 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,120 they're not actually disabled or what, uh, or have been, or quote unquote, 317 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:07,840 are playing, playing. Um, yeah, 318 00:19:07,890 --> 00:19:12,040 there's such a rarity of seeing those actors on stage, I guess that, that, 319 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,080 that is, uh, it's been the response. 320 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:15,840 , 321 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,760 hopefully some of those people that ask these questions or make these incorrect 322 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,840 observations, we're able to, 323 00:19:22,090 --> 00:19:26,400 to take something away from having said something like that. Uh, 324 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:27,840 we can only hope, I guess. We're. 325 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,160 All learning. We're all learning, I guess. 326 00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:33,680 Yeah. And that's totally true, like, about a lot of things. Um, 327 00:19:34,370 --> 00:19:38,240 it, it makes me think of times in the past that I look back now, 328 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,440 I've learned just about various, you know, things, um, 329 00:19:42,580 --> 00:19:44,680 the moments that I just look back like, Oh, 330 00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:47,000 I wish I could like find that person again. 331 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,080 That I said that microaggression to like five years ago. Like, I didn't, 332 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,200 you know, when you learn like, Oh my God, I said that to someone. Yeah. 333 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,720 And I guess it's, a lot of times it's actually, 334 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,880 it's an act of trying to connect. Like, 335 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,000 that person was probably trying to connect with the, with Greg, the actor, 336 00:20:02,570 --> 00:20:06,240 um, and didn't realize that, that that's maybe, maybe a hurt, 337 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,880 hurtful thing to hear. Um, and, uh, 338 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,280 Greg and other actors I've talked to mentioned that there's, um, 339 00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:19,800 you gotta, there's this reliance of humor to, to, um, there's, 340 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,400 there's a, there's a need to use humor to kind of make other people comfortable. 341 00:20:24,010 --> 00:20:27,280 Um, I do the same thing in the play. Like there's, I, I've, 342 00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:32,120 I've learned with my plays, I need to make the audience laugh within the, 343 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:33,360 I used to say within the first minute, 344 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:36,760 and now I think it's like the first 30 seconds, maybe 15 seconds mm-hmm. 345 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,360 so that they know it's so, I want them to laugh. 346 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,240 It's okay to laugh. I wanna invite them into this, this, 347 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,920 the experience and the story. And, um, they might, 348 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:49,000 they might be tense because of the subject matter, um, not just for this play, 349 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,520 but my other, my other plays as well. Yeah. 350 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,760 I was, that was one of the things that I really appreciated. 351 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,440 And there's some like dark like, uh, 352 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,200 humor in the play, which I always appreciate. But, um, I can feel that too, 353 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,240 as a, as a point, especially when they're disabled characters. 354 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,600 I'm sure that if you don't really set it up in the beginning of the play, like, 355 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,240 this is a thing, we're gonna laugh today too, , you. 356 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,800 Know? Yeah. It's every, I mean, the other, 357 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,640 like Iron Bound is about a woman in like, incredible, 358 00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:22,400 like financial instability, and there's of domestic violence in the, like, 359 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,160 talks of domestic violence and there's, there's like, 360 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,960 there's heavy things in the play. And I think, um, 361 00:21:28,170 --> 00:21:32,840 if you don't let them, let the audience know early that like, it's, 362 00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:37,040 it's okay then, then there feels like there's a, there's a feeling of like, Oh, 363 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,720 we're not allowed to, we're not allowed to laugh at this. And it's not, 364 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:40,160 you never, 365 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,800 the audience should never feel like they're laughing at a character usually. 366 00:21:44,190 --> 00:21:45,360 I have noticed that, uh, 367 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:49,160 that like the more marginalized character and whatever scene will tend to tend 368 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,800 to lead the humor. Like they'll be the ones that are in charge of the jokes, 369 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,080 and so you're laughing with them. They're the ones, 370 00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:57,080 they have the agency over the humor, 371 00:21:57,260 --> 00:22:00,720 and so you're never laughing at that character. 372 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,360 And hopefully that lets everybody, you know, feel more, feel more comfortable. 373 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:07,520 And like, we're all here together in our, in our awkwardness, 374 00:22:07,610 --> 00:22:10,120 in our shared tension and with respect. 375 00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:14,000 Uh, I hadn't noticed that, but now that I'm thinking back to the play, I'm like, 376 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,200 Oh, yeah, that is, that is how that was handled. 377 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,640 There was a scene that I especially loved, um, 378 00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:23,320 Jess's helping John take a shower. Mm-hmm. , 379 00:22:23,770 --> 00:22:28,680 it connected a lovely memory with my mom when she was sick and 380 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:33,240 passed away, um, that I was helping take care of her. And it was, 381 00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:36,680 that scene was so beautiful, 382 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,680 and it really captures that like, 383 00:22:39,510 --> 00:22:44,000 sort of intimate exchange of care, like, 384 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,760 of caring for, for someone else. Um, was that, 385 00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:50,800 I'm silly question. I think , 386 00:22:50,860 --> 00:22:55,000 how much did you draw on your experience as a caregiver, uh, for that scene? 387 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,680 And was it important to you to sort of portray that? 388 00:22:58,830 --> 00:23:03,160 Yeah. And thank you for the kind, the kind of words. Yeah. Thank you. I, I, 389 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,600 so the, the job that I, one of the jobs I, 390 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,600 I had was working for a man was cerebral palsy. Um, I was, 391 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,000 I worked with two men and, um, that was, 392 00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:18,400 that was how I showered him. That was like how I prepared him for the day. 393 00:23:18,780 --> 00:23:23,000 And so I, I wrote it into the script really specifically. Um, 394 00:23:23,540 --> 00:23:25,760 and then when we, when we did the first production, 395 00:23:26,070 --> 00:23:30,840 I just showed them what I did. I, I worked with, it was always Greg was, 396 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,360 was always in that role from the, 397 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,760 from the moment we had a first production till, till now on Broadway. 398 00:23:35,060 --> 00:23:38,520 And I just showed them like how I, how I maneuvered. 399 00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:41,280 I wanted to show how natural it is, 400 00:23:41,470 --> 00:23:46,400 like how connected those two bodies are. Like it's almost a dance that they're, 401 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,560 that they're doing of, um, they've, at that point in the play, 402 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,440 they've been working together for I think three or a few months, 403 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,520 but at that point, so they've established a kind of rhythm with each other, 404 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,360 with their bodies, um, such that they can have conversations, you know, flu, 405 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:03,440 pretty fluidly. Um, and, um, and I wanted to, 406 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,640 I think it's just beautiful. I watched that scene and I'm like, it's a scene of, 407 00:24:06,770 --> 00:24:11,560 of somebody caring for another person's, another for another person. 408 00:24:12,220 --> 00:24:16,720 And it's also just so routine, um, and, um, 409 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,040 such a, so natural. So I wanted to, 410 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,720 and I also wanted to show how much work it is. Mm-hmm. , um, 411 00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:23,720 like this, it's such a physical, 412 00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:28,000 it's just such a physical job that this other person is doing. But that, and, 413 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,600 and that like, um, that, that really both of them are doing because they're, 414 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:36,200 they're kind of working in tandem as much as they, as they as they can. Um, 415 00:24:36,490 --> 00:24:39,520 so I wanted to invite an audience into what that is. 416 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,920 I wanted them to see it all. I didn't wanna just open, you know, 417 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,960 lights up and you see, um, um, uh, 418 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,440 he's already in the shower chair, whatever. But like, I wanted them, 419 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,880 I wanted everyone to see that full act. And so throughout the whole scene, 420 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,080 he's showered, Um, he's brought into the shower, he showered, 421 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:59,440 he's brought back into this wheelchair. He's, he's, um, dressed. 422 00:24:59,460 --> 00:25:02,520 His hair is done, and he is like ready for the day and the whole scene. 423 00:25:02,690 --> 00:25:06,160 So I was like, yeah, I wanted to show, show people that's what the work is. 424 00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:09,200 I didn't realize that that was part of what I love so much about that scene, 425 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,040 but the, the feeling that they had been doing this and they just had this, 426 00:25:13,550 --> 00:25:17,240 this dance, Um, that was a great scene. Yeah. 427 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,320 There was a clip that I saw today that talks where you're talking about, 428 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,320 and it's very short. Like it doesn't tell the whole story. 429 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,560 I'm so curious about more of this, um, where you, 430 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,840 your agent was telling you that you won the Puli tour. 431 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:32,270 . 432 00:25:32,270 --> 00:25:35,840 Like, I, I mean, I partly love this type of story because it, 433 00:25:36,090 --> 00:25:38,200 it wasn't something until I moved to New York and, 434 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,080 and I met people who had been on Broadway or who had like, success, um, 435 00:25:43,930 --> 00:25:48,840 in the theater. And then next, a month later they're like, Okay, 436 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,920 I'm back on unemployment now because I don't have a job. 437 00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:55,480 I didn't really realize that. So it's really this story, 438 00:25:55,930 --> 00:25:58,200 um, it's important to me for that kind of way. 439 00:25:58,290 --> 00:26:01,400 So whatever part of that you feel like. 440 00:26:01,530 --> 00:26:04,720 Oh, yeah, yeah. I, I actually love this story too. Cause I'm like, this is, 441 00:26:04,830 --> 00:26:07,600 it's just so exactly what you're saying. You're like, Yep. 442 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,600 And one day on Broadway, and the next, like, like, we, 443 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:12,040 you open the show and the next day I'm like, 444 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,960 gotta do my laundry and my Ikea bags, take it downstairs. Like, it was like, 445 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,560 these like sharp contrasts of, of what your life is like. You know, 446 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,120 one day you're at this, at this go opening, and then you're like, 447 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,360 gotta do my laundry in the basement. Um, . But, uh, yeah, 448 00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:29,280 for the day of the, I was, um, 449 00:26:29,950 --> 00:26:34,800 I was supposed to be at jury duty that day. Um, I, it was like flash floods. 450 00:26:34,990 --> 00:26:38,840 I went down downtown. I, I was all the way, all the way uptown. 451 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,200 So I went downtown. I wasn't chosen, like, thank God, 452 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,920 I came back to my apartment and I was about to start doing my taxes because they 453 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,000 would do the next day. So like, great. Like, it's very, very late. Like, so I, 454 00:26:50,130 --> 00:26:52,240 so I was opening up TurboTax, like ready to go, 455 00:26:52,420 --> 00:26:55,520 and I get a call around three o'clock from my agent, um, 456 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,840 who's screaming at me that I won the Pulitzer. 457 00:26:58,380 --> 00:27:03,360 And I was so mad at him because I thought he was fucking with 458 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:07,400 me. Arthurs lying to me Uhhuh. Um, and uh, uh, 459 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:12,400 it was nine minutes and 48 seconds of me being like, 460 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,360 How dare you? Um, it was also April. So I was like, Oh, 461 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:19,040 this is like a delayed April Fools joke. Like, how cool. Yeah. And, um, 462 00:27:19,070 --> 00:27:21,520 he's just laughing at me for almost 10 minutes and was like, Well, 463 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,840 why don't you, why don't you hang up? 464 00:27:23,860 --> 00:27:27,240 And I think you will find that you actually indeed have won the poll for 465 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:28,680 . The thing is like, why the phone, 466 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,760 why was 10 minutes was I was trying to Google it, 467 00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:33,000 but apparently I didn't know this. Like, 468 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,320 apparently it's a live stream announcement that that goes out. 469 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,360 So it was recorded, so there was no, like, 470 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,760 there was no language on the internet, which means it's not real that like that. 471 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,920 I had one that pulled Sarah, so I was like, Was gonna watch this video. Um, 472 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,480 so I hung up and I saw that, um, I had 20, 20 texts, 473 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,720 like 12 or 20 texts, and the first one was from Steven Allen GIAs being saying, 474 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,160 Congratulations. I was like, Oh, well, I guess it's true . 475 00:27:57,980 --> 00:28:00,840 And I called my agent back to apologize. Uh. 476 00:28:02,530 --> 00:28:06,040 Uh, I'm sure he appreciated that the whole thing out. 477 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:06,920 Laugh at me the whole. 478 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,520 Time. Yeah. Well, you know, we should wrap up this part of our conversation. 479 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,840 Okay. Um, sad to say, um, 480 00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:15,440 for those of you who are listening and would like to hear more, 481 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,520 there'll be a little bonus podcast conversation where we might be talking about 482 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:20,640 cats. Cats, I don't. 483 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,520 Know. Best content. Yeah. 484 00:28:23,260 --> 00:28:24,480 All cats all the. 485 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:25,520 Time. All cats All the time. 486 00:28:26,110 --> 00:28:29,040 Yeah. Um, so thanks for joining me on this podcast. 487 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,440 Thank you for having. 488 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:35,320 Me. And, um, your, your website is martina myo.com. Mm-hmm. . 489 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,840 Um, anywhere else I should tell people to go to learn more about your work or? 490 00:28:39,420 --> 00:28:42,440 I'm on, I'm on all the socials. I don't really use Twitter that much, 491 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:47,160 but I'm on, I'm on, uh, it's all my, all my name. M A r t y N A m h A O K, 492 00:28:47,610 --> 00:28:51,760 Um, Instagram I've been using more most lately, but yeah. Yeah. 493 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,760 Yeah. Cool. All right. Thanks for talking to me today. 494 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:55,593 Thank you. 495 00:33:36,030 --> 00:33:40,680 That was the title track from Sophia Saba Vatex in our softening. 496 00:33:40,930 --> 00:33:43,120 Uh, Sophia is going to be on the podcast soon. 497 00:33:43,260 --> 00:33:46,320 I'm very excited for this conversation as well. Uh, 498 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,080 that piano has a history and it inspired the album, the, 499 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,360 the piano that that was recorded, that piece come on. 500 00:33:54,410 --> 00:33:56,560 So I'm excited about so many things that are coming up. 501 00:33:56,620 --> 00:33:59,640 I'm excited about this thing that just happened, this interview with, uh, 502 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,400 Martina Myo. A lot of things. A lot of things. Thanks so much for listening. 503 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,160 If you're a patron, uh, stop by patreon.com/michael Herron in a couple of days, 504 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,840 and there will be an extended cat conversation with Martina. 505 00:34:14,060 --> 00:34:15,360 And if you're not yet a patron, 506 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,920 feel free to go on over there and sign up for five bucks. 507 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,800 You get access to all that cool stuff I talked about in the beginning of the 508 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,680 show. Um, I'm really grateful to you for listening. Tell a friend, 509 00:34:24,750 --> 00:34:29,600 I've taken quite a pause from social media right now and whatever with 510 00:34:29,740 --> 00:34:33,680 the new owner of Twitter. Maybe I'll be leaving there too. I don't know. 511 00:34:33,860 --> 00:34:35,440 I'm just on a personal level, 512 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:40,000 I'm much happier not being as engaged on social media as I used to be. 513 00:34:40,660 --> 00:34:45,520 And that is the end of this podcast. Thanks so much for listening, and, uh, 514 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,720 let me hear from you. Please, I'd love to hear from you. 515 00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:50,600 I hope you enjoyed the interview. See you next time.