1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:03,680 Hello, and welcome to Mikey Podd podcast, 2 00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:07,920 episode 351 for October 6th, 2022. 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,600 Today's guest is Christopher Willits, who by the way, 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,640 is making his third appearance on the podcast, um, 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,800 and will be talking about his latest album, Gravity, 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,320 which either I've not been paying attention or this is a bit more of a, 7 00:00:20,770 --> 00:00:24,560 um, personal work for him. Every time I talk to Christopher, 8 00:00:24,970 --> 00:00:26,560 we get into these really cool, 9 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,600 deep conversations about process and being humans. And ah, 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,120 it's a really great conversation. Um, 11 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,520 and he's also a huge inspirational force in my work, 12 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,920 which I sort of mentioned at the beginning of this interview. Um, 13 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,000 I'm so happy to share this interview with you. You're gonna love it. . 14 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,200 I'm your host, by the way, Michael Herron. I'm a composer, pianist, 15 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,560 electronic musician, storyteller, and activist based in New York City. 16 00:00:48,770 --> 00:00:49,603 On this podcast, 17 00:00:49,630 --> 00:00:54,040 I have conversations with fellow creators who use their creativity to change the 18 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,120 world. I've been sending this podcast to your ears for over 17 years. 19 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:59,080 If you like what you hear, 20 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,360 subscribe using the colorful buttons and the sidebar and footer@mikeypodd.com. 21 00:01:03,610 --> 00:01:06,320 Or just search Mikey Podd in your favorite podcast directory. 22 00:01:06,370 --> 00:01:09,960 If you'd like to know more about me, stop by my website@michaelherron.com. 23 00:01:10,020 --> 00:01:13,760 Hit me up on social, I gotta take that out. , 24 00:01:13,990 --> 00:01:18,400 I usually say hit me up on social media everywhere as Michael at Michael Herron, 25 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,440 but on my social media's turned off. 26 00:01:20,690 --> 00:01:25,640 So email me@mikeypoddgmail.com or you 27 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,320 can join us in the Discord. Uh, I'll put a link there. There's a Discord server. 28 00:01:30,370 --> 00:01:34,120 Uh, there are a few of us very active in there, and I would love for more, uh, 29 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,840 podcast listeners to come by. So, uh, check the show notes and you could just, 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,760 uh, click a little thing and go to Discord, which is like a gigantic, 31 00:01:41,910 --> 00:01:44,520 I don't even still know how to describe Discord, but it's, 32 00:01:44,570 --> 00:01:49,400 it feels like a very safe place, . So join us there. Uh, hello. 33 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,040 Welcome to the show. Yeah, so I cut off my social media. 34 00:01:53,510 --> 00:01:57,360 I have mentioned that on the show already, and it's really great. 35 00:01:57,870 --> 00:02:02,520 It's like, um, I was spending a lot of energy. 36 00:02:02,750 --> 00:02:07,520 I've talked about this before, but it's been nice to like, take that sort of, 37 00:02:07,980 --> 00:02:09,480 and every time I talk about it, 38 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:14,080 I wanna make sure I'm being clear that it's not just social media that was the 39 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,880 problem. It was the way I was engaging with social media, and, um, 40 00:02:17,990 --> 00:02:20,800 I was really using it as a, 41 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,720 as a distraction tool and a procrastination tool, um, 42 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:29,680 but also as a outlet for my frustration 43 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,720 about things that are going on in the world that I didn't like my own. 44 00:02:33,930 --> 00:02:38,000 So I was arguing a lot with people who really were just wanting to argue. 45 00:02:38,610 --> 00:02:41,120 Um, and I'm really happy to not be doing that. 46 00:02:41,300 --> 00:02:45,360 And it's been really cool to like, start to kind of backtrack. 47 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,120 And I've like signed up for this news reader. I used to use News Blur, 48 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:53,720 and I've like signed, like, it's, I'm just being more, um, 49 00:02:55,130 --> 00:02:59,720 uh, mindful about how I'm consuming and what I'm connecting with. 50 00:03:00,130 --> 00:03:01,920 Um, when before, like, you know, 51 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:05,560 like Facebook felt like this big flood of, you know, 52 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,360 I'd be follow following all these things I wanted to stay on top of. 53 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,040 And then it just, it's so much, it was too hard to, 54 00:03:13,210 --> 00:03:16,600 to really connect with any of it. So it's been really cool to like, 55 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:21,000 be very mindful about connecting with things. And, um, 56 00:03:21,270 --> 00:03:22,103 kind of, 57 00:03:22,470 --> 00:03:26,880 it's been a really cool period of cleaning up the back end of my website 58 00:03:27,490 --> 00:03:28,720 of re just, 59 00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:33,160 I'm cleaning house in like my digital world organizing files. 60 00:03:33,310 --> 00:03:36,000 I feel like I'm clearing the way for some new creation, 61 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,240 which I'm very excited about. It's been a long time. 62 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,720 And one of the things that I really thought about too was that I used to be a 63 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:47,400 lot more personal on the podcast, and I sort of missed that. Uh, 64 00:03:48,060 --> 00:03:51,680 one of the things that I've been doing has been assembling this huge playlist of 65 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,040 all the music I've ever played on the podcast. And, um, 66 00:03:55,810 --> 00:04:00,160 so it's enabled me to sort of look more closely at the, at the posts, uh, 67 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,080 on Mikey Podd and what I used to talk about. 68 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,800 And the engagement used to be a lot different. So, uh, 69 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,120 I think right now I'm kind of doing that now, aren't I? Um, 70 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,640 and one of the things that was really interesting was Archer Radio. 71 00:04:12,830 --> 00:04:17,160 I don't know if you've listened to this podcast. It's really great. Um, I've, 72 00:04:17,470 --> 00:04:20,240 I've kind of have been going back and listening to podcasts. 73 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,000 I used to listen to that. I stopped over the, over a while. 74 00:04:23,090 --> 00:04:27,600 So Archer and I have been talking in his comments about commenting , 75 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,120 which is a lost art, um, because social media, that darn social media. 76 00:04:32,490 --> 00:04:35,920 So, uh, anyway, check out Archer Radio. I think it's archer radio.com, 77 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,200 but you could just search in your podcast, uh, thing. And, uh, , 78 00:04:40,270 --> 00:04:42,920 that's the technical term. And, uh, 79 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,240 just to subscribe and find his podcast there. It's very, uh, it's very journaly, 80 00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:50,360 but the more I'm look listening to podcasts, 81 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:55,080 I really appreciate this kind of podcasting when I don't really, 82 00:04:55,270 --> 00:04:58,200 I mean, there are some podcasts, Oh, blah, blah, blah. Um, 83 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,840 but I really do appreciate that type of thing. And High Archer, 84 00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:04,080 if you're listening, podcasting 2.0 is super interesting to me, 85 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,240 and I still don't know how to talk about it. But check out, 86 00:05:08,390 --> 00:05:13,200 like there's some a apps that feature these bon these, uh, new features. 87 00:05:13,650 --> 00:05:17,120 Um, and one of them is being able to, uh, 88 00:05:18,340 --> 00:05:22,480 pay, like as a listener, I don't even, I can't even describe it, 89 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,040 but it's in Bitcoin, which I know like causes people to glaze over. 90 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,120 But check out the Fountain app, which I've been doing. And, um, 91 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,240 you can actually send Boosts to a podcast you're listening to. 92 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,640 And that app pays you for listening to podcasts like a, uh, what's it called? 93 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,120 A Satoshi, which is a fragment of a Bitcoin. But it's really interesting, 94 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,080 It's interesting hearing this conversation about that stuff. Uh, 95 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,600 and I think it's important to, um, to, uh, support this movement. 96 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,160 I wanna get one of the guys from Podcast Index on the show, 97 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,080 but I can't figure out how to reach them because I'm not on social media 98 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:55,913 anymore. . 99 00:05:56,130 --> 00:05:59,800 So the last thing I wanna talk about is the NYC Podcaster Expo, 100 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,720 which is a, uh, a little, it's like a mini convention. 101 00:06:04,860 --> 00:06:09,080 Yes. The second annual mini convention. I missed the first Shame on me. Uh, 102 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,720 it's this Sunday. Um, I'll put a link with more information about that. 103 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,560 I'll be speaking with my friend Sebastian, about fading away from Pod Fade. Um, 104 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,200 and I hope you can make it if you do come by and say hello. 105 00:06:20,530 --> 00:06:24,320 So we're gonna listen to a track from Christopher Willett's new album, 106 00:06:24,660 --> 00:06:29,280 but I want to first make sure I thank my subscribers on Patreon for powering 107 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:32,360 this podcast. These are people who subscribe for $5 or more a month, 108 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:33,400 Think it special perks, 109 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,320 like tons of free downloads of my music and zines and bonus podcasts. 110 00:06:37,370 --> 00:06:41,400 They're close to 80 of those bonus podcasts on the 111 00:06:41,850 --> 00:06:45,440 Patreon, which you will have immediate access to when you subscribe, 112 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,680 including this week's bonus episode, 113 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,120 which features an extended conversation with today's guest, Christopher Willits, 114 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,640 which you're gonna be clamoring for because this conversation is so good. 115 00:06:54,830 --> 00:06:59,000 You're gonna be sad that it's over and it'll be okay cuz you could just go to 116 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,800 Patreon and download, uh, that extra bonus episode. 117 00:07:02,050 --> 00:07:04,280 So before we get to that interview, 118 00:07:04,790 --> 00:07:09,720 I would like for you to listen to a new track from Christopher's album, Gravity. 119 00:07:09,910 --> 00:07:14,120 This track is called Crescent, and one of the things he suggests, 120 00:07:14,620 --> 00:07:16,720 and if you're in a place where you could do this 121 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,000 laying down and just listening to this music, um, 122 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,640 maybe that's more of a suggestion for the whole album. 123 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,400 But if you're in a place you could do it. You, 124 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,960 maybe you could at least close your eyes, maybe you're sitting on the train. Um, 125 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,760 if you're driving, don't close your eyes. Um, 126 00:07:33,060 --> 00:07:37,080 but think of a different way to really engage with this, with this music. 127 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:38,360 This is Crescent. 128 00:13:28,940 --> 00:13:33,550 That was Crescent from Christopher Willett's brand new album, 129 00:13:33,550 --> 00:13:37,270 Gravity. And Christopher here joined me for the third time on the podcast. 130 00:13:37,270 --> 00:13:38,020 Welcome. 131 00:13:38,020 --> 00:13:42,070 Thanks for having me again. It's been three times. That is amazing. 132 00:13:42,070 --> 00:13:43,630 Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. , 133 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,750 we were just talking before we started recording about, uh, 134 00:13:46,750 --> 00:13:47,583 it's been a long time. 135 00:13:47,770 --> 00:13:52,510 I'm gonna have to hesitate or like resist going into a whole thing about, um, 136 00:13:53,180 --> 00:13:55,990 well, whatever I talk to, I guess I'm not gonna resist doing that. 137 00:13:56,180 --> 00:13:57,030 I think about like, 138 00:13:57,030 --> 00:14:00,390 a lot of just meeting you and having you on the podcast sort of introduced me to 139 00:14:00,390 --> 00:14:04,230 Ableton live through your, uh, what you talking about Wills. 140 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:05,150 Oh, that's awesome. 141 00:14:06,020 --> 00:14:10,590 Yeah. So, and it completely changed everything that I do. Uh, so , 142 00:14:10,590 --> 00:14:12,670 I'm excited about that, and thank you for that influence. 143 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:14,630 Oh my gosh, that's, yeah. Well, 144 00:14:15,220 --> 00:14:17,950 thanks Ableton for the incredible tools as well. 145 00:14:17,950 --> 00:14:19,510 Before we get too far away from it, 146 00:14:19,510 --> 00:14:22,110 we should talk about the track that we just heard, Crescent. 147 00:14:22,110 --> 00:14:23,190 Yeah. There's a lot, 148 00:14:23,190 --> 00:14:27,670 like this whole album weaves through all these different emotions I was feeling 149 00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:30,790 for the last two years. And it's really, I think of a, 150 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:35,490 as one piece and each of the pieces, or, you know, 151 00:14:35,490 --> 00:14:38,970 each of the tracks are, are part of this whole, 152 00:14:39,710 --> 00:14:43,730 and Crescent leads it off with this feeling 153 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,570 that, uh, kind of goes through much of the whole, 154 00:14:48,990 --> 00:14:51,380 the whole album. Um, 155 00:14:51,380 --> 00:14:55,500 it's this simultaneous feeling of like 156 00:14:56,220 --> 00:15:00,240 inspiration, but also some sorrow in there. Mm-hmm. . 157 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,240 But ultimately it ends up in inspiration. Uh, it always, 158 00:15:04,250 --> 00:15:09,040 it always does in, in some mysterious way because, you know, 159 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,040 whatever grief or sorrow you're experiencing, you start to, you know, 160 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,480 as you listen to that and really understand where that's coming from, 161 00:15:17,970 --> 00:15:20,680 um, you learn and then that brings joy and inspiration. 162 00:15:21,450 --> 00:15:25,720 So that kind of, that thread of, of, um, 163 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,740 you know, feeling is going through the whole album. And Crescent for me, 164 00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:34,420 really kinda leaves it off. It. Um, it's really, I mean, this whole, 165 00:15:34,490 --> 00:15:39,340 this whole album is about slowing down and letting things fall 166 00:15:39,340 --> 00:15:43,420 into place. Just gravity as a surface, you know, 167 00:15:43,420 --> 00:15:47,860 gravity as a, as a, as this flow that, you know, 168 00:15:47,860 --> 00:15:52,430 things are just settling and coming into where they need to be. 169 00:15:53,210 --> 00:15:58,070 And the, the, the title of present actually came from an experience. 170 00:15:58,070 --> 00:16:03,070 It was like really a microcosm of that. I was, uh, working on this music and 171 00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:08,470 a lot of, a lot of things were happening with my mother's health at the time. 172 00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:12,830 It was really ramping up. Uh, she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, uh, 173 00:16:12,860 --> 00:16:14,990 a few different, uh, or a few years ago. 174 00:16:14,990 --> 00:16:18,310 She actually had a couple different diagnoses where, um, 175 00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:20,630 it was dementia and then it was like Alzheimer's. 176 00:16:20,630 --> 00:16:25,390 And I just kept getting worse and worse. And Crescent really emerged like, 177 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,670 um, during the peak of realizing that, you know, 178 00:16:29,670 --> 00:16:33,430 she needed 24 7 care. Um, she was falling down a lot. 179 00:16:33,530 --> 00:16:38,030 She like almost let the house on fire at one point. Oh wow. And, um, 180 00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:42,630 coming to that realization was heavy. You like really heavy. 181 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,190 Um, you know, this person is just such a creative force. 182 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,190 My mom is just absolutely incredible. 183 00:16:48,190 --> 00:16:51,470 And then all of a sudden she can't do every everyday things that, uh, 184 00:16:51,810 --> 00:16:56,750 she just took for granted. And I remember going outside, I was, 185 00:16:56,750 --> 00:17:00,430 I was working on the music and went outside and just the most beautiful crescent 186 00:17:00,430 --> 00:17:04,110 moon was in the sky and just felt like this reminder that, you know, 187 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,510 despite things being challenging, you know, 188 00:17:06,510 --> 00:17:11,510 this is like right in the height of the pandemic too. Um, this crescent moon. 189 00:17:11,610 --> 00:17:16,190 And just like that big picture perspective of our 190 00:17:16,910 --> 00:17:21,190 position on the cosmos and solar system and everything just really shined a 191 00:17:21,190 --> 00:17:23,430 light that, you know, this is challenging now, 192 00:17:23,430 --> 00:17:26,870 but we're gonna get through it and I can just let things fall into place. 193 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:32,030 So that's really what Crescent is about. So I think that was really the, 194 00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:36,950 maybe the second track. It's interesting when you're making an album, 195 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:41,070 it kind of like, there's a momentum that starts to build. Um, 196 00:17:41,070 --> 00:17:45,470 and that was the second track that really kind of validated this, 197 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,920 this direction for the whole album. The first one, uh, 198 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,440 being the track spinning, which is track seven. 199 00:17:52,550 --> 00:17:55,080 It's funny to hear about the, the, uh, 200 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,160 sequence of the tracks being created for some reason, 201 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,000 even though I know this isn't true for most people, I'm like, Oh yeah, 202 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,560 I guess you didn't write them in the exact order that they're appearing on the 203 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:06,070 album. 204 00:18:06,070 --> 00:18:10,480 Yeah, no, definitely not. Like spinning was the first track for a long time. 205 00:18:11,140 --> 00:18:15,720 And then, um, and then Creston just was like, Nope. Need to be there. 206 00:18:15,950 --> 00:18:20,480 It's interesting. It's, uh, it's, you can't really, for me, I can't really like, 207 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,120 analyze what's happening. It's very mysterious process. It just becomes very, 208 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:27,320 very clear to me on a, a very intuitive level, 209 00:18:27,630 --> 00:18:32,240 more like heart based level, less of a mind kind of thinking kind of strategy. 210 00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:38,120 Um, the music starts to just say, Hey, I, I want to go this direction, 211 00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:41,840 or I wanna be in this sequence. Um, and it's, 212 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,600 it's my job to, to tend to that flow. 213 00:18:44,610 --> 00:18:47,000 There's so many things as we're talking to, I'm like, oh, 214 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,200 like so many potential topics like to, 215 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,080 or questions from a lot of this. I guess the first one that, 216 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,200 that I was thinking when you were talking about Crescent and, you know, 217 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,800 the experience of seeing that moon and the idea of gravity, 218 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,200 Like when I first think of gravity, I think of like a pole, right? 219 00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:11,200 Like something that's grabbing us and and jerking us down to the 220 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,080 earth. But it's interesting that your take about it, 221 00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:19,080 the way you described it, was more about kind of settling. 222 00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:22,400 And I feel like I'm kind of feeling that energy from your work a lot. 223 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,200 And also from what you're saying now of, um, 224 00:19:25,790 --> 00:19:28,800 I don't know if acceptance is the right word, but just sort of this Yeah. 225 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,440 Kind of awareness of like, this is, this is everything. 226 00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:37,320 Some of it feels bad or good, but it is the thing that it is. 227 00:19:38,410 --> 00:19:41,300 Yeah. Gravity is, um, 228 00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:47,720 it's, it's really this surface. It's very graceful and, and, 229 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,680 and it's, it's, it's not even, um, 230 00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:57,560 this force, you know, we, we kind of are old school, um, 231 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,400 way of thinking about gravity is, it's like, yeah, what, 232 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,480 what goes up must come down type thing. But, um, 233 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,960 relativity has shown us that, you know, gravity is a surface. It's, uh, 234 00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:13,320 it's bending time space, uh, light, you know, energy itself. 235 00:20:13,540 --> 00:20:17,280 And the more matter something has, 236 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,320 the more gravitational pull it has, the more it's able to bend the surface. 237 00:20:22,540 --> 00:20:27,290 And, um, it's, it's, uh, on a metaphorical level, 238 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,130 it's this, you know, when you're kind of surfing those wave that, 239 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,450 that mass of, uh, attraction, that mass of, 240 00:20:36,260 --> 00:20:41,030 um, modulation in a sense, you know, 241 00:20:41,610 --> 00:20:43,790 you, you're letting go. You're, 242 00:20:43,790 --> 00:20:46,350 you're just trusting that this process is happening. 243 00:20:46,350 --> 00:20:47,880 You're letting things come to be. 244 00:20:48,210 --> 00:20:51,480 So this is a big part of the inspiration of a lot of the imagery that came with 245 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:52,480 the album as well. 246 00:20:52,580 --> 00:20:57,050 All the pictures came from White Sands National Park in, uh, 247 00:20:57,050 --> 00:21:01,850 in New Mexico. And I visited there when I was actually going back, See my mom. 248 00:21:01,850 --> 00:21:04,850 This is like, when all the fights were shut down. So I was like, 249 00:21:05,390 --> 00:21:07,810 I'm just gonna drive. I'm gonna drive my, uh, 250 00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:11,770 my Volkswagen bus out there and just make it happen. 251 00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:16,290 And on the way I stopped in, um, on the way and on the way back, um, 252 00:21:16,290 --> 00:21:19,210 stopped in White Sands and had some journeys out there, 253 00:21:19,390 --> 00:21:23,290 and the patterns of the sand and the way that they're falling in the place and 254 00:21:23,290 --> 00:21:27,250 everything I was, I was always kind of, um, fascinated by this place. 255 00:21:27,250 --> 00:21:30,370 And even like, dreams about it and stuff, I had never actually visited there. 256 00:21:30,370 --> 00:21:32,490 And being there was actually, um, 257 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,010 even more vivid and amazing than the dreams. 258 00:21:36,750 --> 00:21:38,530 And it was, uh, 259 00:21:38,530 --> 00:21:42,050 around the time when I started playing with the idea of Gravity being the, 260 00:21:42,050 --> 00:21:46,410 the title of the album. And this place just epitomizes like, 261 00:21:46,410 --> 00:21:48,490 the way that things have just fall into place, 262 00:21:48,490 --> 00:21:52,410 and all these different patterns have emerged from, you know, 263 00:21:52,410 --> 00:21:56,730 the macro of the, uh, the waves of the dunes, 264 00:21:57,070 --> 00:22:01,450 but also on this micro level where you're seeing actually this fr 265 00:22:02,020 --> 00:22:06,210 of the larger macro waves of the dunes. And this almost like a pattern, 266 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,890 almost like a language really. It looks like a language that's on the actual, 267 00:22:11,260 --> 00:22:13,930 uh, dunes themselves. Um, 268 00:22:14,340 --> 00:22:18,290 so I decided just to hone in on, uh, those curves. 269 00:22:19,090 --> 00:22:23,130 Cause I really saw a reflection in those curves and the way that the music was 270 00:22:23,130 --> 00:22:27,200 flowing and, uh, this very slow low, 271 00:22:28,450 --> 00:22:33,400 um, wavelike cord melody motion. And, 272 00:22:33,450 --> 00:22:38,200 um, for me, yeah, just the word gravity, it, it made so much sense. 273 00:22:38,810 --> 00:22:43,200 Um, makes so much sense too. The process I was going through. I mean, 274 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,520 it was heavy . Yeah. It had a lot of weight to it. And, 275 00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:53,280 but what I was learning is just a deeper flow into letting go 276 00:22:53,740 --> 00:22:55,160 and, and, 277 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,960 and really listening to everything that was going on. 278 00:22:59,220 --> 00:23:02,040 And I think the music really allowed me, uh, 279 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,480 to do that to a greater capacity as well. 280 00:23:05,610 --> 00:23:07,560 It was just incredibly, 281 00:23:07,660 --> 00:23:12,640 the relaxing and inspiring 282 00:23:13,330 --> 00:23:15,720 to sit down and know that this, 283 00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:20,000 this music was really like a representation of the feelings 284 00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:23,320 that, um, very complex feelings, um, 285 00:23:24,270 --> 00:23:26,160 that I was experiencing. You know? 286 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,880 So there was this beautiful feedback loop that was happening to what I'm feeling 287 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,560 and what I'm creating, and then I'm listening to the things I'm creating, 288 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,480 and that's also influencing what I'm feeling. 289 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,040 And then the music just takes on this life of its own. 290 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,720 Hmm. Thinking about, uh, becoming so, uh, 291 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,600 acquainted with our parents' mortality. 292 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:46,930 Mm-hmm. 293 00:23:46,930 --> 00:23:50,900 is, uh, it, it's kind of conversation with you. 294 00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:52,700 It's always like this for me that I'm like, Whoa, 295 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,860 I'm thinking about a lot of things from a new perspective and just that idea of 296 00:23:56,860 --> 00:24:01,860 mortality and even death being part of what makes everything else 297 00:24:02,140 --> 00:24:03,060 possible that we experience. 298 00:24:04,020 --> 00:24:08,010 Totally. And, and that's what was so weird about this too, 299 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,730 Like this meaning, um, specifically, um, you know, 300 00:24:12,730 --> 00:24:16,370 we're talking about our parents mortality and I was talking about my mother, um, 301 00:24:16,370 --> 00:24:19,770 and how she has Alzheimer's. And uh, just, 302 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,090 it's an absolutely surreal experience because at some points you're actually 303 00:24:24,370 --> 00:24:25,570 wondering, you know, 304 00:24:26,290 --> 00:24:31,250 would this be easier if she could just, you know, 305 00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:34,330 pass or mm-hmm. . And it's such a, 306 00:24:34,330 --> 00:24:36,290 that's such a confusing thought to have, 307 00:24:36,290 --> 00:24:41,010 but that's truly how painful and challenging it is 308 00:24:41,180 --> 00:24:45,660 at times. Cause uh, you know, it's, 309 00:24:46,730 --> 00:24:51,580 it's a complete shift in the way the brain is working and 310 00:24:51,610 --> 00:24:55,340 loss of words and, and, you know, it affects everybody in different ways. 311 00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:59,250 So no one can really tell you like, Okay, 312 00:24:59,250 --> 00:25:02,490 well this is gonna happen next and then you can expect this . You know, 313 00:25:02,490 --> 00:25:06,930 it's a, yeah. It's a completely non-linear journey. Um, 314 00:25:07,950 --> 00:25:12,580 so I'm just really grateful for my whole family, my sister, my dad, um, 315 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,820 our, our extended family. I mean, just incredible, 316 00:25:15,820 --> 00:25:19,940 incredible people that all just stepped up and supported each other. And, 317 00:25:19,940 --> 00:25:22,300 you know, each step of the way we're kinda like, Hey, , 318 00:25:22,460 --> 00:25:24,660 we're improvising this experience together, 319 00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:28,140 and what do we do that's best for mom? Um, yeah. 320 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,420 And I think we got through it in a, in a really beautiful way, but I, it is, uh, 321 00:25:33,420 --> 00:25:37,180 yeah, , you know, my dad was saying this the other day, you know, 322 00:25:37,180 --> 00:25:42,160 it's like none of us gets outta here alive, you know? And, um, I, 323 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,200 I like his kind of courageous embrace of, of mortality. 324 00:25:47,450 --> 00:25:51,240 Um, and I kinda wonder, like with everything my mom's going through, 325 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,550 I'm wondering like, what capacity does she have to reflect on that right now? 326 00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:59,230 Cause I know that there's been a lot of fear too, you know, 327 00:25:59,230 --> 00:26:03,550 the change of her living situation and, um, 328 00:26:03,660 --> 00:26:06,920 just confusion. You know, like you, it's, 329 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,640 it's when your brain is like sending, um, 330 00:26:11,810 --> 00:26:14,680 signals in, in these different places or there's, 331 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,640 there's parts that are kind of jammed up and, and it's not, 332 00:26:17,950 --> 00:26:21,760 it's not sending those, uh, al impulses, uh, 333 00:26:21,940 --> 00:26:23,400 the same way it always has. 334 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,960 It's like there's a lot of confusion that's going on. Um, 335 00:26:28,030 --> 00:26:31,690 but I, I think just the simple, 336 00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:36,250 the simple act of reflecting on mortality is, um, incredibly, 337 00:26:36,690 --> 00:26:41,090 incredibly powerful cuz it helps us to really embrace the present moment on a 338 00:26:41,090 --> 00:26:41,923 deeper level. 339 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,870 Yeah. The, the idea of, um, 340 00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:51,110 I'm going back to you something that you described your process of creating 341 00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:55,790 music as, uh, this is my interpretation of it, of almost like, uh, 342 00:26:55,790 --> 00:26:58,630 kind of getting, getting, uh, 343 00:26:58,630 --> 00:27:01,830 your direction from the music as it's emerging. 344 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,150 Um, Absolutely. 345 00:27:04,570 --> 00:27:07,550 How was it to discover, this is like a big question, I think, 346 00:27:07,550 --> 00:27:09,990 How was it to discover that process? 347 00:27:10,990 --> 00:27:15,520 Like what that's, that feels like a potentially really big question. 348 00:27:16,670 --> 00:27:21,520 Well, I think that, I think from a young age, I understood that, um, 349 00:27:21,710 --> 00:27:25,640 they create a process goes where it needs to go. 350 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,650 There is this mysterious ebb and flow, um, 351 00:27:30,650 --> 00:27:31,483 that's occurring. 352 00:27:31,950 --> 00:27:35,730 And what I can do as a creator to show up with 353 00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:41,120 the vibe, with the intention, with like, why am I making this? 354 00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:45,660 It could be a big idea that's related to other people could be something just 355 00:27:45,660 --> 00:27:50,500 like, Hey, I just wanna play or explore this thing, or whatever it is. Um, 356 00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:54,980 but grounding that initial kind of like, um, 357 00:27:55,420 --> 00:27:59,260 arrow of the compass, so to speak, um, 358 00:27:59,390 --> 00:28:03,740 is kind of all we can do . Like, um, 359 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,280 whenever, I mean, some people work a little bit differently maybe, 360 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:14,160 but I just have never found that the creative process, um, 361 00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:19,530 is going to bend to your, 362 00:28:20,060 --> 00:28:24,970 uh, your sense of control or your ego, uh, to an effect. 363 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,010 It's, it is life force itself, 364 00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:30,570 and it's much bigger than you. 365 00:28:31,310 --> 00:28:34,170 And I've always found that the, 366 00:28:35,150 --> 00:28:39,450 the most kind of resonant music, the music that really sounds the best to me, 367 00:28:39,450 --> 00:28:41,130 means the most to me, is always music. 368 00:28:41,130 --> 00:28:44,810 That I've set the intention and the general direction where it's going, 369 00:28:45,090 --> 00:28:49,250 and then that music starts to live and grow. And then tell me, um, 370 00:28:49,250 --> 00:28:50,170 which way it wants to be. 371 00:28:50,170 --> 00:28:50,590 Guided. 372 00:28:50,590 --> 00:28:55,130 One of the things I run into with my creative process is exactly what you said 373 00:28:55,130 --> 00:28:57,090 of getting into more, um, 374 00:28:59,510 --> 00:29:03,520 more about what I want the product to be than letting, 375 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,360 letting it become what it's going to be. 376 00:29:06,660 --> 00:29:09,000 And I think that's kind of an ego place for me. 377 00:29:09,550 --> 00:29:10,383 Mm-hmm. . 378 00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:11,543 Yeah. 379 00:29:11,550 --> 00:29:12,520 It's, it's a, 380 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:17,200 it's a beautiful paradox because when you actually surrender into the, 381 00:29:17,230 --> 00:29:18,080 into the flow, 382 00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:24,060 it ends up in a place that's surprising and better than you 383 00:29:24,060 --> 00:29:28,020 even imagined. That's what happens with me. Mm-hmm. . Um, 384 00:29:28,870 --> 00:29:33,720 it's, uh, it's really fascinating, but I really like this, 385 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,800 this, um, this thread of like the creative process and life force, 386 00:29:38,460 --> 00:29:41,120 you know, I mean, everything is connected. Um, 387 00:29:42,660 --> 00:29:46,360 and to me it's, it's, uh, the, you know, 388 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:51,330 I think an image that kind of like show the lines of the curves of 389 00:29:51,330 --> 00:29:53,810 this is like, uh, it's very, like, 390 00:29:54,110 --> 00:29:57,770 you think of like life force and plants and the way the plants grow mm-hmm. 391 00:29:57,810 --> 00:30:00,850 and the way that, like a garden or, uh, 392 00:30:00,850 --> 00:30:03,850 nurtures or intervenes in that process, Um, 393 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,970 I feel very much like a gardener and this creative process is flowing, 394 00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:13,650 um, and I'm tending to it. And yeah, I mean, I, 395 00:30:13,650 --> 00:30:17,210 I know how I want my garden to look, and I wanna push and pull it this way, 396 00:30:17,210 --> 00:30:20,290 that way, but I ultimately, as this gardener, 397 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,450 I can't dictate the way that, um, 398 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,330 this moringga tree is going to look or the way my, um, 399 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,210 kale shows up and, and the curves and the, and the lines and the veins. 400 00:30:33,210 --> 00:30:36,250 You know, it's gonna look similar to what you think it's gonna be, 401 00:30:36,790 --> 00:30:41,370 but it's gonna have its own life, you know? So I think, 402 00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:45,970 uh, the most powerful music respects that in a lot of ways. Um, 403 00:30:48,030 --> 00:30:51,970 you know, it's like, it's, it's always, there's always a level of improvisation, 404 00:30:51,970 --> 00:30:54,370 even if you're, you know, writing stuff down and, 405 00:30:54,370 --> 00:30:57,250 and scoring things and whatnot. And in this case, you know, 406 00:30:57,250 --> 00:31:00,370 like working for hours and hours, um, 407 00:31:00,970 --> 00:31:02,730 producing this immersive, 408 00:31:03,300 --> 00:31:07,870 this immersive sound that's moving in three dimensions around people. 409 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,510 Um, it's, uh, 410 00:31:11,260 --> 00:31:16,250 it's ultimately this, this dance of, 411 00:31:16,260 --> 00:31:21,130 of all of this, all of these vibrations coming into one and, um, 412 00:31:22,430 --> 00:31:26,770 and creating this, this space ultimately to, 413 00:31:26,770 --> 00:31:29,650 it's a space for slowing down, and it's a space for, 414 00:31:30,910 --> 00:31:33,530 for just letting things fall into place. 415 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,210 What, what's the moment I'm trying to describe You? Just, there are, it's, 416 00:31:37,210 --> 00:31:40,770 this conversation is like making me think of a lot of different things. 417 00:31:40,780 --> 00:31:45,370 So I have these moments of like, ah, okay. But in a good way. 418 00:31:45,620 --> 00:31:50,410 Awesome. Yeah. It's, it's, I mean, 419 00:31:50,410 --> 00:31:52,970 this is one of our struggles as humans, right? 420 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,530 It's like we have the power to control, 421 00:31:57,510 --> 00:31:59,850 but we, we think we can control, right? 422 00:31:59,850 --> 00:32:04,850 But we actually we're just part of this larger whole, 423 00:32:05,220 --> 00:32:10,100 um, yeah, we need to direct the energy and that life force in the, 424 00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:14,540 in the way that can be beneficial to ourselves and, um, 425 00:32:14,540 --> 00:32:18,900 people around us. But, um, we can't, we can't control it. 426 00:32:19,050 --> 00:32:23,460 That process. Like, think of it as a creative process. Um, well, 427 00:32:23,460 --> 00:32:26,420 I guess our lives are creative processes too, when you really think about it. 428 00:32:26,420 --> 00:32:28,020 But I think that's totally, you know, the, 429 00:32:28,020 --> 00:32:32,900 the times in my life when I've kind of just followed 430 00:32:33,380 --> 00:32:38,270 direction rather than, you know, chosen my own, 431 00:32:38,270 --> 00:32:42,040 like, exact destination or something that I wanted to happen, 432 00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:46,200 the times I've been able to just sort of let the flow happen mm-hmm. 433 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,480 , it's always paid off. 434 00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:51,520 It's always turned into something better than I could have thought of. 435 00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:56,520 Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a lot about our vision. I mean, that's kind of, 436 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,840 when I'm talking about the beginning of what I'm creating, 437 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,160 it's like setting this intention or this vibe or whatever. 438 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,400 It's envisioning what this space looks like, 439 00:33:05,660 --> 00:33:09,360 and that's a combination of sounds and emotions and imagery, 440 00:33:09,620 --> 00:33:13,080 but it's just this general vibe and this feeling. 441 00:33:13,140 --> 00:33:17,680 And I'm envisioning that, but I'm not getting into the future. 442 00:33:17,980 --> 00:33:21,440 I'm actually, it's like headlights of a car, seeing what's coming up, 443 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,800 but I'm not actually in that, you know, 444 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,760 wherever that mountain is that the light is shining out. I'm actually, 445 00:33:26,780 --> 00:33:30,000 I'm in the car driving in the present moment, 446 00:33:30,140 --> 00:33:33,320 and then my vision's shining out so I can kind of, you know, 447 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,360 get an idea of what's coming up. But I'm not, like, 448 00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:42,000 I'm not trying to, um, I'm not trying to control 449 00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:47,840 the outcome. I'm envisioning where I want it to go. So there's like a, 450 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,080 there's a, a light touch and a, and a, a really drastic difference in, 451 00:33:52,130 --> 00:33:56,440 in the flow right there. Um, you know, I, 452 00:33:56,470 --> 00:34:00,240 I teach a lot of classes and I, I've noticed with a lot of, um, 453 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:05,080 especially younger students that, um, there, 454 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,080 there's kind of this almost judgment or expectation of themselves that they 455 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,760 are going to create this thing that may, you know, 456 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,120 it's like, sounds like something they've heard before, perhaps. Um, 457 00:34:19,540 --> 00:34:23,000 and it's really just this judgment on themselves. I mean, 458 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,360 you could be inspired by something and be like, Okay, I wanna emulate, you know, 459 00:34:26,670 --> 00:34:31,320 a certain track or whatever. Um, but there, there's a sense of control. 460 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,640 It's really, it's, 461 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:37,040 it's ultimately linked to this kind of fear of failure or 462 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,960 rejection of others or of themself. And there's just a lot of judgment. 463 00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:46,920 And so they're never actually getting into the space where 464 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,720 they can just allow what they envision to occur. 465 00:34:50,170 --> 00:34:53,360 They're kind of just in this fear state of like, Oh, how do I make this, 466 00:34:53,380 --> 00:34:57,960 you know, sound better to be this way or this way? Um, and it's, 467 00:34:58,180 --> 00:35:02,760 you know, it's not a, it's just a matter of practice, you know, it's, uh, 468 00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:06,160 it's not anything that's like, Okay, we'll do this and do this like a recipe. 469 00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:08,560 It's truly just a, 470 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,560 a matter of practice and listening to what you wanna do and experimenting and 471 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,200 seeing how that comes out, like thousands and thousands of times. 472 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,800 And then you start to realize that subtle, 473 00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:22,560 that subtle touch and the grace that comes with really, 474 00:35:23,290 --> 00:35:26,920 um, authentically created music, you know, 475 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,600 music that's coming from your heart and it's growing out. 476 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,410 It's not something that's like this preconceived idea of like, 477 00:35:34,410 --> 00:35:37,800 this is where it needs to fit into the market , you know? Yeah. Yeah. 478 00:35:38,060 --> 00:35:42,880 A's certain genre or certain things like this, you know, it's, um, 479 00:35:43,740 --> 00:35:47,630 just, just music, you know, It doesn't, it doesn't have to, 480 00:35:48,270 --> 00:35:50,820 it doesn't have to be labeled, uh, this way or that. 481 00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:55,760 That is, uh, there's so much, there's so much loaded or, 482 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,280 or potentially loaded into being an artist or just 483 00:36:00,470 --> 00:36:04,680 allowing ourselves to think about ourselves as artists. And then, you know, 484 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,960 like, there's just so much, so many levels of 485 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,130 validation that we feel like we need. I'm speaking for my, 486 00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:18,130 for myself here too. Like, there's a lot of that that, you know, 487 00:36:18,130 --> 00:36:19,330 and what you were talking about, 488 00:36:19,810 --> 00:36:24,450 about allowing music to be what it is going to become 489 00:36:24,780 --> 00:36:28,050 without trying to, you know, direct it. Well, 490 00:36:28,050 --> 00:36:32,490 it's so much of what we have already been saying, um, but it's, 491 00:36:32,510 --> 00:36:33,730 I'm just kind of being aware, 492 00:36:33,730 --> 00:36:37,570 like you were talking about marketing and genre and all of those type of things 493 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,610 that also, you know, 494 00:36:39,610 --> 00:36:44,250 become something that we're trying to turn our kale into in the garden, right? 495 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,050 Mm-hmm. when it's really just gonna be kale. 496 00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:51,830 . Yeah. I mean, it's just, you know, 497 00:36:52,990 --> 00:36:57,960 I I, I just see that, um, within myself that's like, 498 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,080 if I'm, I've fully given up over the years, 499 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,080 but like when I was younger, I've, 500 00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:07,200 I think that there was definitely kinda an impulse to be like, 501 00:37:07,350 --> 00:37:11,200 I wanna really control the outcome of what this thing is, 502 00:37:11,220 --> 00:37:16,000 the outcome in terms of like, what it is not the outcome of like, 503 00:37:16,180 --> 00:37:19,520 why does it exist and how is it 504 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,200 operating? How is it creating a space? How is it helping people or, 505 00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:26,133 you know, 506 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:31,600 anything or augmenting someone's inspiration or experience just 507 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,780 in general, you know? So yeah. It's, uh, 508 00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:39,230 it's just, it's just something over the years. It's like, 509 00:37:39,780 --> 00:37:42,190 just have to completely let go of, 510 00:37:42,190 --> 00:37:46,600 because if I'm trying so hard 511 00:37:47,170 --> 00:37:52,080 to make this certain thing be what I think it should be, 512 00:37:52,750 --> 00:37:57,520 then I'm not truly showing up in the moment to let it 513 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,480 be what it is and what, um, 514 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,730 what it needs to be. Right. . 515 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:05,740 Yeah. 516 00:38:05,740 --> 00:38:09,810 Um, you know, it's a very kinda, I mean, it's very comic in a way. 517 00:38:09,810 --> 00:38:13,650 Cause what's what's the point of making, you know, 518 00:38:13,650 --> 00:38:17,410 your heart's music if you're not truly completing, 519 00:38:18,590 --> 00:38:20,300 um, a new chapter in the journey? 520 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,660 And if you're kind of what you were saying of like, 521 00:38:24,660 --> 00:38:28,820 kinda chasing things, it's like if you're in that mode, 522 00:38:29,350 --> 00:38:31,940 um, you know, like 523 00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:39,480 it's just, uh, there's, there's ways where you can, 524 00:38:39,780 --> 00:38:43,490 you can zoom out and really think about how, 525 00:38:43,550 --> 00:38:46,410 how your music is functioning, um, 526 00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:51,080 for yourself and with humanity 527 00:38:51,450 --> 00:38:53,560 in general. , 528 00:38:54,330 --> 00:38:58,320 instead of it being this thing where it's so driven 529 00:38:59,130 --> 00:39:04,040 by a desire to kind of fit into 530 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,680 a certain thing or form into a certain image and, 531 00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:13,180 and all these things. Um, just think that, uh, 532 00:39:14,730 --> 00:39:16,070 for me, um, 533 00:39:16,490 --> 00:39:20,910 I'm always striving to make the most authentic music. 534 00:39:22,170 --> 00:39:26,790 And a lot of times that ends up being things that I never really heard 535 00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:31,050 before, um, from myself or maybe other places too. 536 00:39:32,050 --> 00:39:33,160 Um, and it's, 537 00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:39,450 and it's a discovery of that vision and that 538 00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:44,250 intention that I planted like a seed, you know, 539 00:39:44,250 --> 00:39:49,210 sometimes years ago. But then after thousands of touches 540 00:39:50,830 --> 00:39:55,530 and movements through this emerging space, and all of a sudden, 541 00:39:55,790 --> 00:39:59,410 you know, this experience grows out in a way that I would've never 542 00:40:00,790 --> 00:40:05,640 really, um, imagined in that exact form. But it's, 543 00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:08,240 it's, it's occupying this, 544 00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:13,440 this space in a way that's often better than what I was even originally 545 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:14,280 thinking it would be. 546 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:15,953 Yeah. 547 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:17,410 It's really fun . 548 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:19,130 Yeah, it's. 549 00:40:19,130 --> 00:40:20,130 Really incredible. 550 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,410 It's kind of cool to think about the, the, 551 00:40:23,950 --> 00:40:27,730 the sort of the path of your releases and like, 552 00:40:27,730 --> 00:40:31,850 when I first became aware of your music, it, it, it's, 553 00:40:31,850 --> 00:40:36,770 there's still a definite connection, but it's a, it's a big difference in, 554 00:40:36,780 --> 00:40:37,850 in action in. 555 00:40:37,850 --> 00:40:40,370 A way. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. 556 00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:45,330 I was reflecting on that recently because the 20 year anniversary of Fold Amen. 557 00:40:45,330 --> 00:40:48,290 The tea is coming up here, I believe it's like next month. 558 00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:54,130 And that was released in 2002. That was kind of my first official, you know, 559 00:40:54,130 --> 00:40:58,650 distributed release as, uh, under my, my own name. Yeah. 560 00:40:59,710 --> 00:41:03,580 And yeah, just, it just kind of hit me, It's like, oh wow, 561 00:41:03,580 --> 00:41:07,860 it's been 20 years of putting this music out and then kind of 562 00:41:08,500 --> 00:41:12,580 tracing the thread of how the music keeps changing in different ways. And, 563 00:41:13,770 --> 00:41:15,220 um, yeah, 564 00:41:15,220 --> 00:41:18,220 what you said is interesting cuz it actually was resonating with what I was 565 00:41:18,220 --> 00:41:20,140 doing. I was like, like harmonically, 566 00:41:20,670 --> 00:41:25,620 there's this similar thing that I'm always wanting to explore 567 00:41:25,620 --> 00:41:30,190 in these like, um, cord melody type work. 568 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,280 Um, it's almost like making music that's just like, uh, 569 00:41:36,940 --> 00:41:41,510 it's like elongated, slowed down guitar solos, , 570 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,950 or something like this. Like it's, yeah, it's like, it's, uh, the, 571 00:41:45,950 --> 00:41:49,910 the chords and the melodies kind of all go together, but then I've been, 572 00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:50,950 you know, playing with different, 573 00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:52,990 all these different ways to do it over the years, 574 00:41:52,990 --> 00:41:57,830 and there's definitely been a number of twists and turns and so, so grateful, 575 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:03,150 um, for all the exploration. And I remember thinking when I was younger, like, 576 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,500 um, I kinda made a promise to myself. I was like, I'm never, you know, 577 00:42:08,500 --> 00:42:12,100 I'm always gonna be listening to where the music wants to go, 578 00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:14,300 which is gonna be, you know, 579 00:42:15,050 --> 00:42:19,380 extricable linked to my own personal, um, 580 00:42:19,380 --> 00:42:23,940 evolution and journey, um, and this whole cosmos here. 581 00:42:23,940 --> 00:42:28,830 And so, um, to really do the music, um, and this, 582 00:42:28,830 --> 00:42:33,230 and myself and the process and the people around me, um, to do them, 583 00:42:34,420 --> 00:42:39,370 do them good. It's like I have to surrender my 584 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:40,810 kind of, uh, 585 00:42:41,890 --> 00:42:46,710 expectations of like how things should end up sounding . Um, 586 00:42:46,810 --> 00:42:51,070 and I'm, it's really liberating, but it's also, you, 587 00:42:51,070 --> 00:42:54,590 you're kind of like looking into the abyss a little bit too. Um, 588 00:42:54,590 --> 00:42:59,550 but ultimately I think I've been really a much happier artist over these 589 00:42:59,550 --> 00:43:04,230 last 20 years. Um, there's never been like an existential crisis. Like, 590 00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:06,230 what am I doing and, you know, 591 00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:09,470 or feeling locked into some type of a sound because that's what everyone's 592 00:43:09,470 --> 00:43:11,390 expecting you to do. I've always just been like, 593 00:43:12,020 --> 00:43:15,470 I want people to expect that I'm just gonna, you know, 594 00:43:15,580 --> 00:43:20,270 I want people to expect that they're not gonna expect something in a way. Yeah. 595 00:43:20,270 --> 00:43:23,110 Like even the next album from Gravity, it's, you know, 596 00:43:23,110 --> 00:43:27,310 might be a whole hundred 80 degree turn from that. And Sure. 597 00:43:27,310 --> 00:43:30,400 On one side that might be like, you know, 598 00:43:30,750 --> 00:43:34,160 some people would say that's like this bargaining suicide or something. 599 00:43:34,180 --> 00:43:39,130 And it's like, well, you know, sorry, that's just, 600 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,530 this is what, if this is the music that needs to happen at this time, 601 00:43:43,530 --> 00:43:46,770 then that's gonna happen. You know, it's like, I'm not gonna be, 602 00:43:47,350 --> 00:43:51,450 I'm not gonna be, uh, changing that just because, you know, 603 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,450 people think this needs to happen or, or something else needs to happen, 604 00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:58,970 You know what I mean? That that would be authentic, um, 605 00:43:58,970 --> 00:44:01,370 music in my opinion. 606 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:07,130 Yeah. This is, they're like, a lot of times in these conversations on, 607 00:44:07,540 --> 00:44:11,650 on the podcast that I, they're little moments that I'm like, Oh, 608 00:44:11,650 --> 00:44:14,410 this is why I'm talking to this person. Like, per my, 609 00:44:14,410 --> 00:44:18,210 my personal like unlocking. And, um, 610 00:44:18,210 --> 00:44:22,290 I think a lot of what kind of, in my creative process lately, 611 00:44:22,290 --> 00:44:26,610 something about the pandemic really kind of made me start thinking like, Well, 612 00:44:26,610 --> 00:44:28,970 I don't know what I'm, I wanna make next. 613 00:44:29,230 --> 00:44:31,050 And it's really interesting to think about, like, 614 00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:34,760 maybe just start making it and see. 615 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,760 What it's, Oh my gosh, yes. I mean, 616 00:44:38,350 --> 00:44:41,440 that's how everything begins for me is like, 617 00:44:42,610 --> 00:44:45,660 just play, you know? Yeah. Um, 618 00:44:46,770 --> 00:44:50,980 having a vision of where things can go and then just playing. 619 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:56,500 And then sometimes the intention will just be 620 00:44:57,030 --> 00:45:01,660 to explore, you know? That's fine. That's like enough of a, you know, 621 00:45:01,660 --> 00:45:05,900 direction. Just explore . Yeah. See what, see what feels good, 622 00:45:05,900 --> 00:45:08,060 Try a new technique, try this, try that. 623 00:45:08,060 --> 00:45:13,020 And then something comes up and then that sparks the vision and 624 00:45:13,020 --> 00:45:14,060 then you're like, Okay, 625 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,980 now I can see these things falling into place and you slow down with it. Listen. 626 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,860 And then just work your ass off . And that's the trick too, right? 627 00:45:23,860 --> 00:45:27,300 Because I worked my ass off on this album, 628 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,940 but the whole time I was reminding myself to have a light touch, you know, 629 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,860 and to constantly, like, if something needs to be changed, 630 00:45:35,860 --> 00:45:39,780 it doesn't matter where I'm in the process, I'm gonna do that. And, um, 631 00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:44,500 gratefully over time you learn how you work and you learn how these, how the, 632 00:45:44,570 --> 00:45:48,940 this mysterious flow of creativity starts to emerge through your body and out 633 00:45:48,940 --> 00:45:52,060 into the music. And, you know, I can know that, okay, 634 00:45:52,060 --> 00:45:55,460 this is the time of the album that I'm probably gonna think the whole thing is 635 00:45:55,460 --> 00:45:59,060 just horrible , and that's okay. You know, 636 00:45:59,060 --> 00:46:02,100 like that's part of the process. And then I'm gonna get through that, 637 00:46:02,100 --> 00:46:06,660 and then there's gonna be another mountain and that's fine too. You know. Um, 638 00:46:06,660 --> 00:46:09,820 there's always that time, like towards the end of, um, 639 00:46:10,930 --> 00:46:15,140 like compos, it's basically when I'm, I'm starting to like mix. 640 00:46:15,490 --> 00:46:16,323 Mm-hmm. . 641 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,980 And, you know, I've, I've put down all, 642 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:26,420 you know, um, instruments, so no, I'm not adding guitar anymore, 643 00:46:26,590 --> 00:46:31,500 or bass scent or whatever is, is in there. I'm just like, Okay, 644 00:46:31,500 --> 00:46:34,420 that's done. I'm going to, to mixing. 645 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,380 And there's always gonna be a time where I'm just like, 646 00:46:38,050 --> 00:46:42,220 it's almost like a little bit of a grieving, um, 647 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,660 cuz you know, it's like you, you must surrender and, and, uh, 648 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,860 and then it turns quick. You know, it's just like a phase of the moon. 649 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,700 All of a sudden. It's just like you listen, 650 00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:56,860 give yourself a little space maybe and listen again. You're like, Oh my gosh, 651 00:46:56,860 --> 00:47:00,020 this, this is, I was just in my head, you know? 652 00:47:00,020 --> 00:47:03,860 I was just completely creating this whole reality. 653 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,300 And so now when I start to have little like, kind of seeds of those thoughts, I, 654 00:47:08,330 --> 00:47:10,900 I am like, ah, I can laugh at it. I'm be like, Wow, 655 00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:15,700 that's something that's so interesting that like, um, I'm kind of, you know, 656 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,620 experiencing this from like a different vantage point. You know, 657 00:47:20,620 --> 00:47:22,020 I can see the ups and downs. 658 00:47:22,020 --> 00:47:25,580 I can kind of almost have like a look ahead to know, okay, 659 00:47:25,580 --> 00:47:28,180 well there's a valley coming up here and it's all good. 660 00:47:28,180 --> 00:47:31,720 And then it's not really a valley, you know, it's, it's just, 661 00:47:32,030 --> 00:47:33,840 it's just part of the, part of the flow. 662 00:47:34,510 --> 00:47:39,130 Yeah. Oh yeah. So like letting all of it, 663 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,810 that's our, that's the takeaway. Let it all, like all the whole process, the. 664 00:47:43,810 --> 00:47:45,090 Music, let it all fall into place. 665 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,650 Yeah. And your response to it and your like inevitable, um, 666 00:47:49,650 --> 00:47:52,010 push and pull with what you think of your own work. 667 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,170 It's just part of the experience. 668 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,850 It's so fun. I mean, yeah. Kind of talking deeper into that a little bit, 669 00:48:01,850 --> 00:48:05,160 it's like finding the balance of 670 00:48:06,570 --> 00:48:10,780 working very hard towards this 671 00:48:11,420 --> 00:48:15,780 objective, you know, like finishing an album, let's say. Um, 672 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,900 and at the same time, you know, 673 00:48:19,220 --> 00:48:24,000 surrendering to what it is, um, it's, 674 00:48:24,070 --> 00:48:27,160 it's, it's just an incredible, um, 675 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:32,520 balancing act at times because there are, 676 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,570 there are moments where you've just got to 677 00:48:37,810 --> 00:48:41,460 like, put your seatbelt on and just dig into 678 00:48:42,900 --> 00:48:47,150 some, like, the work that maybe isn't as fun , you know? Yeah. 679 00:48:47,290 --> 00:48:51,990 You gotta just, you gotta just, um, chop the wood and carry the water. 680 00:48:52,410 --> 00:48:56,510 And then, but when you relieve the judgment that, Oh, 681 00:48:56,510 --> 00:48:59,950 this isn't as fun as playing guitar, You know, I'm talking about like, 682 00:48:59,980 --> 00:49:04,110 once you get into mixing stuff or really just the first, 683 00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:06,950 first kind of phases of mixing for me, I'm, 684 00:49:07,010 --> 00:49:10,110 you gotta kinda like warm up into the process. Cause I'm like, ah, 685 00:49:10,110 --> 00:49:14,070 I just wanna keep playing guitar . Yeah. And so let it go. 686 00:49:14,290 --> 00:49:18,950 And then all of a sudden it just like opens up and it's like the, you know, 687 00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:22,150 it's the most fun thing in the world to just, um, 688 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:27,110 explore like exactly where these different frequencies need to fall 689 00:49:27,110 --> 00:49:28,350 into place with each other. 690 00:49:28,890 --> 00:49:32,350 And just that tiny little bit of compression and which tool, 691 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:37,430 or should I use this like analog compressor on there that has this 692 00:49:37,430 --> 00:49:42,390 very subtle thing, Should I use this other digital tool that's doing this thing? 693 00:49:42,770 --> 00:49:43,870 And you start to, 694 00:49:44,230 --> 00:49:49,070 these very microscopic kind of details start to emerge 695 00:49:49,070 --> 00:49:53,110 that are related to the whole larger flow, um, 696 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,870 of like the core progressions and, and the different, um, 697 00:49:57,980 --> 00:50:02,670 wavelike motion of this, this core melody work and stuff like that. So it's, 698 00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:07,190 um, it's, it's really just about being present when you, when you boil it down, 699 00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:09,590 you know, it's like you're, 700 00:50:09,590 --> 00:50:13,430 you're envisioning this experience and 701 00:50:14,110 --> 00:50:18,030 every single moment that you are touching and creating, 702 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,790 uh, this music, you are, you are embodying that experience. 703 00:50:23,790 --> 00:50:28,760 Right? So it's like every, every single touch is kind of like, 704 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:30,550 it all, 705 00:50:30,550 --> 00:50:35,230 like stratifies into this experience that 706 00:50:35,230 --> 00:50:38,750 that happens, uh, you know, in a, 707 00:50:38,750 --> 00:50:40,350 in a linear sense in the future. 708 00:50:40,410 --> 00:50:43,950 But we're actually every moment creating it through that. 709 00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:45,550 So it's, 710 00:50:45,780 --> 00:50:50,500 it's actually just like very non-linear kind of 711 00:50:50,500 --> 00:50:51,140 timeless thing. 712 00:50:51,140 --> 00:50:55,300 Cause at the very beginning I'm seeing an envisioning kinda where it's gonna go, 713 00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:00,420 but I'm not controlling it. And then as I get to the end, then I'm also seeing, 714 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,100 you know, or or kind of reflecting on these are, 715 00:51:04,100 --> 00:51:08,060 these are the inspirations of the vibes and the space that like, 716 00:51:08,060 --> 00:51:11,260 brought this to be. And now it's, 717 00:51:11,260 --> 00:51:16,100 it's showing up for me in a way that, um, I maybe didn't expect. 718 00:51:16,510 --> 00:51:19,580 Um, but it's, you know, it's, 719 00:51:19,580 --> 00:51:22,860 it's completing this really important, uh, 720 00:51:22,860 --> 00:51:25,820 process or kind of chapter for me. 721 00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:30,020 Uh, it's always so good to talk to you about this stuff. It's like. 722 00:51:30,020 --> 00:51:31,620 Really, It's cool. Cause yeah, 723 00:51:31,620 --> 00:51:36,260 it seems like our conversations usually tend to fall on creative process things. 724 00:51:36,260 --> 00:51:39,580 That's really cool. Yeah. I mean, cause you're a creator man. Yeah. And you, 725 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,260 and you're like, you're, 726 00:51:41,290 --> 00:51:45,300 you're making within so many different materials and things. 727 00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:48,740 So it's like you're, And I think that's, that's part of it too. 728 00:51:48,740 --> 00:51:53,140 You start to understand these different kind of like, wave lengths of, it's all, 729 00:51:53,140 --> 00:51:57,220 it's all connected for sure. But there's these different wave lengths of, um, 730 00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,340 you know, for me it's like the, 731 00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:04,500 the music and it's all the components of that music and it's like the visuals 732 00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:08,660 and then, um, it's, you know, the, 733 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:10,500 the writing and stuff. 734 00:52:10,500 --> 00:52:13,500 Cause I do a lot of writing that goes around it and it all just, 735 00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:18,180 it informs each other in a different way and they all have these 736 00:52:18,180 --> 00:52:21,900 different kind of like, nuances to it. Um, 737 00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:25,140 so yeah, I think maybe it's like, cuz you, 738 00:52:25,140 --> 00:52:29,100 you've worked with all these kind of different materials, um, 739 00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:33,580 and you've been exploring all these different sounds and ways to kinda present 740 00:52:33,580 --> 00:52:36,820 those to people. Um, this, you know, 741 00:52:37,450 --> 00:52:41,300 that this conversational like creative process really becomes like 742 00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,700 foregrounded cuz you're always exploring. 743 00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:48,620 And it is a really good reinforcement of the exploration part of 744 00:52:48,620 --> 00:52:49,453 all of that. 745 00:52:50,470 --> 00:52:51,303 Mm-hmm. . 746 00:52:51,590 --> 00:52:52,423 Yeah. 747 00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:57,240 Really is, it's all an exploration. That is for sure. 748 00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,200 beautiful. I'm looking at the time and it's, 749 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,520 we need to wrap up this part of our conversation, but I want talk wrap up about, 750 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:09,600 we're gonna wrap it up, but I wanna listen to Regrowth. Um, 751 00:53:10,090 --> 00:53:13,560 is there anything you wanna say about regrowth before we, uh, 752 00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:14,720 say goodbye and listen to. 753 00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:19,680 The trip? Yeah, yeah. Regrowth. Um, well I just wanna, 754 00:53:20,270 --> 00:53:23,960 I just wanna say, um, you know, 755 00:53:24,580 --> 00:53:26,240 for anyone out there listening, 756 00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:31,240 thank you for listening and I encourage you to just put some headphones 757 00:53:31,250 --> 00:53:36,150 on and lie down on your bed and just let this music 758 00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:40,270 take you wherever it needs to go. And just feel it slow down. 759 00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,410 Um, let things fall into place. Um, um, 760 00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:49,490 and that's, you know, regrowth again, 761 00:53:49,490 --> 00:53:52,570 each of these tracks is very much like these, 762 00:53:52,830 --> 00:53:57,170 the same feelings I was talking about with Crescent were emerging and these 763 00:53:57,170 --> 00:54:01,410 different shapes that actually came about. Uh, 764 00:54:01,410 --> 00:54:04,330 it was the night after we, um, 765 00:54:04,610 --> 00:54:09,090 moved my mother out of the house she created for us. And, um, 766 00:54:09,980 --> 00:54:12,250 it was incredibly, uh, 767 00:54:12,250 --> 00:54:17,010 surreal and bizarre and sad and, um, unknown. 768 00:54:18,030 --> 00:54:22,720 And, um, got back from that and I was just like, 769 00:54:23,110 --> 00:54:27,510 I was just flattened. I was just like, like a pancake . 770 00:54:27,510 --> 00:54:29,950 It was just like laying on the grounds. Like, oh man, 771 00:54:30,300 --> 00:54:33,750 that is the kinda thing where it's like really hitting like the mortality level. 772 00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:39,540 Um, but on this other kind of side branch where you're like, 773 00:54:39,540 --> 00:54:43,340 Oh my goodness, like this is, this is a kind of a, 774 00:54:43,340 --> 00:54:47,580 a torturous situation for my mother, you know, and kind of trying to, 775 00:54:48,030 --> 00:54:52,740 wanting to support her, but it's like kind of feeling like we had failed. 776 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:53,340 You know, 777 00:54:53,340 --> 00:54:56,740 there's like a lot of kind of guilt type feelings that are coming through it 778 00:54:56,740 --> 00:55:01,300 too. Cause she's like, Why can't we just take care of really 24 7? But, um, 779 00:55:01,930 --> 00:55:04,190 it's just, it's really hard. 780 00:55:04,330 --> 00:55:08,790 And plus we were very grateful to have the o like the options to be able to get 781 00:55:08,790 --> 00:55:12,830 her into a memory care place. So, um, 782 00:55:12,830 --> 00:55:17,710 regrowth basically emerged that evening and after I 783 00:55:17,710 --> 00:55:22,470 was a pancake , I was like, I need to make music. And then I just, 784 00:55:22,500 --> 00:55:27,230 I just kept hearing these chords. I just wanted to this, 785 00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,390 uh, very, 786 00:55:29,980 --> 00:55:34,150 very like stripped down and misty, um, 787 00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:39,710 chord melody thing to happen. And as I started playing the music, 788 00:55:40,780 --> 00:55:44,310 really just expressing what I was feeling, um, 789 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:50,730 I could just feel all this. I, it really felt like my heart was regrowing. 790 00:55:50,730 --> 00:55:54,330 It was like this whole paradigm shift was happening at our family at this time. 791 00:55:54,830 --> 00:55:58,410 And also this shift of um, 792 00:56:00,430 --> 00:56:03,450 you know, like my relationship to my mom. 793 00:56:03,590 --> 00:56:07,410 She took care of me and now I'm taking care of her , you know, 794 00:56:07,410 --> 00:56:08,120 that mm-hmm. , 795 00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:12,730 this whole role reversal thing that we experience in our lives. Um, 796 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,490 I could just feel this regrowth happening. So that's, 797 00:56:16,490 --> 00:56:17,970 that's why it's called Regrowth. 798 00:56:18,340 --> 00:56:21,410 Uh, I'm really looking forward to re-listening to these tracks, 799 00:56:21,660 --> 00:56:23,800 knowing more of the, this background. 800 00:56:24,650 --> 00:56:25,483 Oh, awesome. 801 00:56:26,010 --> 00:56:29,320 Uh, alright. So we should listen to Regrowth, um, 802 00:56:29,420 --> 00:56:32,080 and also say goodbye. Your, uh, 803 00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:36,800 website is christopher willits.com and, uh, is, 804 00:56:37,230 --> 00:56:41,600 well, I'll put links in the show notes for this, where to find the album. Uh, 805 00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:42,800 anything else I should, 806 00:56:42,930 --> 00:56:47,080 we should include or say for people to track down the album and your work? 807 00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:49,040 I think that's it. . 808 00:56:49,530 --> 00:56:50,363 Perfect. 809 00:56:51,830 --> 00:56:54,880 Just, yeah, I think you can find it. Yeah, just search, 810 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,640 search my name and search and it'll come up and, um, 811 00:57:01,130 --> 00:57:05,920 if anyone's in San Francisco come through Envelope SF and, 812 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:06,240 uh, 813 00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:11,240 you can listen to it in 32 Speaker three Dimensional sound, 814 00:57:11,740 --> 00:57:16,640 but headphones are nice too, so just lie down on your bed and just, uh, 815 00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,730 just let the music take you where it needs to go. 816 00:57:20,340 --> 00:57:25,210 Oh, love it. And that's on my list. I really want to go to Envelope. 817 00:57:25,460 --> 00:57:25,810 Uh, 818 00:57:25,810 --> 00:57:29,210 maybe that's something we can talk about really briefly in the bonus podcast, 819 00:57:29,210 --> 00:57:33,970 which, uh, patrons can find at patron.com/bylar. Right. 820 00:57:33,970 --> 00:57:36,970 Anyway, enough of that stuff, , I didn't wanna talk too much, 821 00:57:36,970 --> 00:57:41,530 but between your description of the song and the song. So, um, 822 00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,250 this is regrowth and thank you for joining me, Christopher. 823 00:57:45,890 --> 00:57:46,890 Thank you. So. 824 01:02:47,260 --> 01:02:50,720 And so we come to the end of another episode of Mikey Podd. 825 01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,920 Thank you so much for listening. Thank you Chris, for, for being on the show. 826 01:02:54,570 --> 01:02:57,440 Um, always an inspiration and it's, 827 01:02:57,550 --> 01:03:00,120 I don't know if I understated it in the beginning of this interview, 828 01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,000 but literally I had not, well, 829 01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:07,840 I had dabbled in electronic music very, very slightly. 830 01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,040 Like in high school I had a great synthesizer, 831 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:14,560 which I wish I still had the role in Juno 1 0 6, um, back in the day. 832 01:03:14,850 --> 01:03:18,840 Oh, I still wish I had that keyboard. Every time I mention it I'm like, Oh, 833 01:03:19,170 --> 01:03:20,320 they're still available, 834 01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:24,160 but they're getting more and more expensive and there are, Anyway, this is, 835 01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:30,000 I really miss that keyboard. Um, but, uh, the point is, 836 01:03:30,530 --> 01:03:34,600 um, when I first met Christopher, it was through, uh, 837 01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:39,440 Rii Sakamoto, they did an album together and I wrote to um, uh, 838 01:03:39,670 --> 01:03:42,840 Sakamoto s I'm always concerned I'm mispronouncing his name, 839 01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,400 but I think I have it right. Um, I wrote to his, um, 840 01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:50,000 management about getting an interview and they said they couldn't set that up, 841 01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,800 but would I like to talk to Christopher Willits? And I was like, Oh, okay. 842 01:03:53,380 --> 01:03:57,840 But it was a really , it feels like over the top to say it, 843 01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:02,040 but it was a life changing thing because the conversations I have with him every 844 01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:06,960 time are, um, opening for me, 845 01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:08,960 which is interesting cuz that's the name of one of his albums. 846 01:04:09,300 --> 01:04:14,280 And also it was through discovering his work in my conversation 847 01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:18,000 with him and some of the tutorials he had online at the time that introduced me 848 01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,480 to Ableton Live, which is what I have used as. Like, 849 01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,440 it's what I'm using to make this podcast now. 850 01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,160 Like right now I'm recording on Ableton Live. Um, 851 01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:30,160 and I learned the software and it's what I've used for my solo shows and my 852 01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:33,400 albums. I use it for so much and it, 853 01:04:33,410 --> 01:04:38,000 it changed the way I make music and it opened 854 01:04:38,300 --> 01:04:42,080 the way for me to create my own music and, uh, 855 01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,120 experiment and, and learn like, oh, 856 01:04:45,550 --> 01:04:50,320 this software is so good, it's for someone like me. Like it's great. And, 857 01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,880 uh, it's Christopher Woods that really directed me to it. So Christopher, 858 01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:58,200 thank you. Um, yeah, I get, 859 01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,160 I get sort of stunned thinking about, you know, 860 01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:04,920 what's changed for me over the years. Anyway, uh, thanks so much for listening. 861 01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:06,800 Thank you Christopher for, uh, 862 01:05:06,810 --> 01:05:11,120 sharing your music and your heart with this, uh, podcast. 863 01:05:11,860 --> 01:05:15,240 And I will see all of you next time.