Hello, and welcome to Mikey Podd podcast,
episode 351 for October 6th, 2022.
Today's guest is Christopher Willits, who by the way,
is making his third appearance on the podcast, um,
and will be talking about his latest album, Gravity,
which either I've not been paying attention or this is a bit more of a,
um, personal work for him. Every time I talk to Christopher,
we get into these really cool,
deep conversations about process and being humans. And ah,
it's a really great conversation. Um,
and he's also a huge inspirational force in my work,
which I sort of mentioned at the beginning of this interview. Um,
I'm so happy to share this interview with you. You're gonna love it. .
I'm your host, by the way, Michael Herron. I'm a composer, pianist,
electronic musician, storyteller, and activist based in New York City.
On this podcast,
I have conversations with fellow creators who use their creativity to change the
world. I've been sending this podcast to your ears for over 17 years.
If you like what you hear,
subscribe using the colorful buttons and the sidebar and footer@mikeypodd.com.
Or just search Mikey Podd in your favorite podcast directory.
If you'd like to know more about me, stop by my website@michaelherron.com.
Hit me up on social, I gotta take that out. ,
I usually say hit me up on social media everywhere as Michael at Michael Herron,
but on my social media's turned off.
So email me@mikeypoddgmail.com or you
can join us in the Discord. Uh, I'll put a link there. There's a Discord server.
Uh, there are a few of us very active in there, and I would love for more, uh,
podcast listeners to come by. So, uh, check the show notes and you could just,
uh, click a little thing and go to Discord, which is like a gigantic,
I don't even still know how to describe Discord, but it's,
it feels like a very safe place, . So join us there. Uh, hello.
Welcome to the show. Yeah, so I cut off my social media.
I have mentioned that on the show already, and it's really great.
It's like, um, I was spending a lot of energy.
I've talked about this before, but it's been nice to like, take that sort of,
and every time I talk about it,
I wanna make sure I'm being clear that it's not just social media that was the
problem. It was the way I was engaging with social media, and, um,
I was really using it as a,
as a distraction tool and a procrastination tool, um,
but also as a outlet for my frustration
about things that are going on in the world that I didn't like my own.
So I was arguing a lot with people who really were just wanting to argue.
Um, and I'm really happy to not be doing that.
And it's been really cool to like, start to kind of backtrack.
And I've like signed up for this news reader. I used to use News Blur,
and I've like signed, like, it's, I'm just being more, um,
uh, mindful about how I'm consuming and what I'm connecting with.
Um, when before, like, you know,
like Facebook felt like this big flood of, you know,
I'd be follow following all these things I wanted to stay on top of.
And then it just, it's so much, it was too hard to,
to really connect with any of it. So it's been really cool to like,
be very mindful about connecting with things. And, um,
kind of,
it's been a really cool period of cleaning up the back end of my website
of re just,
I'm cleaning house in like my digital world organizing files.
I feel like I'm clearing the way for some new creation,
which I'm very excited about. It's been a long time.
And one of the things that I really thought about too was that I used to be a
lot more personal on the podcast, and I sort of missed that. Uh,
one of the things that I've been doing has been assembling this huge playlist of
all the music I've ever played on the podcast. And, um,
so it's enabled me to sort of look more closely at the, at the posts, uh,
on Mikey Podd and what I used to talk about.
And the engagement used to be a lot different. So, uh,
I think right now I'm kind of doing that now, aren't I? Um,
and one of the things that was really interesting was Archer Radio.
I don't know if you've listened to this podcast. It's really great. Um, I've,
I've kind of have been going back and listening to podcasts.
I used to listen to that. I stopped over the, over a while.
So Archer and I have been talking in his comments about commenting ,
which is a lost art, um, because social media, that darn social media.
So, uh, anyway, check out Archer Radio. I think it's archer radio.com,
but you could just search in your podcast, uh, thing. And, uh, ,
that's the technical term. And, uh,
just to subscribe and find his podcast there. It's very, uh, it's very journaly,
but the more I'm look listening to podcasts,
I really appreciate this kind of podcasting when I don't really,
I mean, there are some podcasts, Oh, blah, blah, blah. Um,
but I really do appreciate that type of thing. And High Archer,
if you're listening, podcasting 2.0 is super interesting to me,
and I still don't know how to talk about it. But check out,
like there's some a apps that feature these bon these, uh, new features.
Um, and one of them is being able to, uh,
pay, like as a listener, I don't even, I can't even describe it,
but it's in Bitcoin, which I know like causes people to glaze over.
But check out the Fountain app, which I've been doing. And, um,
you can actually send Boosts to a podcast you're listening to.
And that app pays you for listening to podcasts like a, uh, what's it called?
A Satoshi, which is a fragment of a Bitcoin. But it's really interesting,
It's interesting hearing this conversation about that stuff. Uh,
and I think it's important to, um, to, uh, support this movement.
I wanna get one of the guys from Podcast Index on the show,
but I can't figure out how to reach them because I'm not on social media
anymore. .
So the last thing I wanna talk about is the NYC Podcaster Expo,
which is a, uh, a little, it's like a mini convention.
Yes. The second annual mini convention. I missed the first Shame on me. Uh,
it's this Sunday. Um, I'll put a link with more information about that.
I'll be speaking with my friend Sebastian, about fading away from Pod Fade. Um,
and I hope you can make it if you do come by and say hello.
So we're gonna listen to a track from Christopher Willett's new album,
but I want to first make sure I thank my subscribers on Patreon for powering
this podcast. These are people who subscribe for $5 or more a month,
Think it special perks,
like tons of free downloads of my music and zines and bonus podcasts.
They're close to 80 of those bonus podcasts on the
Patreon, which you will have immediate access to when you subscribe,
including this week's bonus episode,
which features an extended conversation with today's guest, Christopher Willits,
which you're gonna be clamoring for because this conversation is so good.
You're gonna be sad that it's over and it'll be okay cuz you could just go to
Patreon and download, uh, that extra bonus episode.
So before we get to that interview,
I would like for you to listen to a new track from Christopher's album, Gravity.
This track is called Crescent, and one of the things he suggests,
and if you're in a place where you could do this
laying down and just listening to this music, um,
maybe that's more of a suggestion for the whole album.
But if you're in a place you could do it. You,
maybe you could at least close your eyes, maybe you're sitting on the train. Um,
if you're driving, don't close your eyes. Um,
but think of a different way to really engage with this, with this music.
This is Crescent.
That was Crescent from Christopher Willett's brand new album,
Gravity. And Christopher here joined me for the third time on the podcast.
Welcome.
Thanks for having me again. It's been three times. That is amazing.
Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. ,
we were just talking before we started recording about, uh,
it's been a long time.
I'm gonna have to hesitate or like resist going into a whole thing about, um,
well, whatever I talk to, I guess I'm not gonna resist doing that.
I think about like,
a lot of just meeting you and having you on the podcast sort of introduced me to
Ableton live through your, uh, what you talking about Wills.
Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah. So, and it completely changed everything that I do. Uh, so ,
I'm excited about that, and thank you for that influence.
Oh my gosh, that's, yeah. Well,
thanks Ableton for the incredible tools as well.
Before we get too far away from it,
we should talk about the track that we just heard, Crescent.
Yeah. There's a lot,
like this whole album weaves through all these different emotions I was feeling
for the last two years. And it's really, I think of a,
as one piece and each of the pieces, or, you know,
each of the tracks are, are part of this whole,
and Crescent leads it off with this feeling
that, uh, kind of goes through much of the whole,
the whole album. Um,
it's this simultaneous feeling of like
inspiration, but also some sorrow in there. Mm-hmm. .
But ultimately it ends up in inspiration. Uh, it always,
it always does in, in some mysterious way because, you know,
whatever grief or sorrow you're experiencing, you start to, you know,
as you listen to that and really understand where that's coming from,
um, you learn and then that brings joy and inspiration.
So that kind of, that thread of, of, um,
you know, feeling is going through the whole album. And Crescent for me,
really kinda leaves it off. It. Um, it's really, I mean, this whole,
this whole album is about slowing down and letting things fall
into place. Just gravity as a surface, you know,
gravity as a, as a, as this flow that, you know,
things are just settling and coming into where they need to be.
And the, the, the title of present actually came from an experience.
It was like really a microcosm of that. I was, uh, working on this music and
a lot of, a lot of things were happening with my mother's health at the time.
It was really ramping up. Uh, she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, uh,
a few different, uh, or a few years ago.
She actually had a couple different diagnoses where, um,
it was dementia and then it was like Alzheimer's.
And I just kept getting worse and worse. And Crescent really emerged like,
um, during the peak of realizing that, you know,
she needed 24 7 care. Um, she was falling down a lot.
She like almost let the house on fire at one point. Oh wow. And, um,
coming to that realization was heavy. You like really heavy.
Um, you know, this person is just such a creative force.
My mom is just absolutely incredible.
And then all of a sudden she can't do every everyday things that, uh,
she just took for granted. And I remember going outside, I was,
I was working on the music and went outside and just the most beautiful crescent
moon was in the sky and just felt like this reminder that, you know,
despite things being challenging, you know,
this is like right in the height of the pandemic too. Um, this crescent moon.
And just like that big picture perspective of our
position on the cosmos and solar system and everything just really shined a
light that, you know, this is challenging now,
but we're gonna get through it and I can just let things fall into place.
So that's really what Crescent is about. So I think that was really the,
maybe the second track. It's interesting when you're making an album,
it kind of like, there's a momentum that starts to build. Um,
and that was the second track that really kind of validated this,
this direction for the whole album. The first one, uh,
being the track spinning, which is track seven.
It's funny to hear about the, the, uh,
sequence of the tracks being created for some reason,
even though I know this isn't true for most people, I'm like, Oh yeah,
I guess you didn't write them in the exact order that they're appearing on the
album.
Yeah, no, definitely not. Like spinning was the first track for a long time.
And then, um, and then Creston just was like, Nope. Need to be there.
It's interesting. It's, uh, it's, you can't really, for me, I can't really like,
analyze what's happening. It's very mysterious process. It just becomes very,
very clear to me on a, a very intuitive level,
more like heart based level, less of a mind kind of thinking kind of strategy.
Um, the music starts to just say, Hey, I, I want to go this direction,
or I wanna be in this sequence. Um, and it's,
it's my job to, to tend to that flow.
There's so many things as we're talking to, I'm like, oh,
like so many potential topics like to,
or questions from a lot of this. I guess the first one that,
that I was thinking when you were talking about Crescent and, you know,
the experience of seeing that moon and the idea of gravity,
Like when I first think of gravity, I think of like a pole, right?
Like something that's grabbing us and and jerking us down to the
earth. But it's interesting that your take about it,
the way you described it, was more about kind of settling.
And I feel like I'm kind of feeling that energy from your work a lot.
And also from what you're saying now of, um,
I don't know if acceptance is the right word, but just sort of this Yeah.
Kind of awareness of like, this is, this is everything.
Some of it feels bad or good, but it is the thing that it is.
Yeah. Gravity is, um,
it's, it's really this surface. It's very graceful and, and,
and it's, it's, it's not even, um,
this force, you know, we, we kind of are old school, um,
way of thinking about gravity is, it's like, yeah, what,
what goes up must come down type thing. But, um,
relativity has shown us that, you know, gravity is a surface. It's, uh,
it's bending time space, uh, light, you know, energy itself.
And the more matter something has,
the more gravitational pull it has, the more it's able to bend the surface.
And, um, it's, it's, uh, on a metaphorical level,
it's this, you know, when you're kind of surfing those wave that,
that mass of, uh, attraction, that mass of,
um, modulation in a sense, you know,
you, you're letting go. You're,
you're just trusting that this process is happening.
You're letting things come to be.
So this is a big part of the inspiration of a lot of the imagery that came with
the album as well.
All the pictures came from White Sands National Park in, uh,
in New Mexico. And I visited there when I was actually going back, See my mom.
This is like, when all the fights were shut down. So I was like,
I'm just gonna drive. I'm gonna drive my, uh,
my Volkswagen bus out there and just make it happen.
And on the way I stopped in, um, on the way and on the way back, um,
stopped in White Sands and had some journeys out there,
and the patterns of the sand and the way that they're falling in the place and
everything I was, I was always kind of, um, fascinated by this place.
And even like, dreams about it and stuff, I had never actually visited there.
And being there was actually, um,
even more vivid and amazing than the dreams.
And it was, uh,
around the time when I started playing with the idea of Gravity being the,
the title of the album. And this place just epitomizes like,
the way that things have just fall into place,
and all these different patterns have emerged from, you know,
the macro of the, uh, the waves of the dunes,
but also on this micro level where you're seeing actually this fr
of the larger macro waves of the dunes. And this almost like a pattern,
almost like a language really. It looks like a language that's on the actual,
uh, dunes themselves. Um,
so I decided just to hone in on, uh, those curves.
Cause I really saw a reflection in those curves and the way that the music was
flowing and, uh, this very slow low,
um, wavelike cord melody motion. And,
um, for me, yeah, just the word gravity, it, it made so much sense.
Um, makes so much sense too. The process I was going through. I mean,
it was heavy . Yeah. It had a lot of weight to it. And,
but what I was learning is just a deeper flow into letting go
and, and,
and really listening to everything that was going on.
And I think the music really allowed me, uh,
to do that to a greater capacity as well.
It was just incredibly,
the relaxing and inspiring
to sit down and know that this,
this music was really like a representation of the feelings
that, um, very complex feelings, um,
that I was experiencing. You know?
So there was this beautiful feedback loop that was happening to what I'm feeling
and what I'm creating, and then I'm listening to the things I'm creating,
and that's also influencing what I'm feeling.
And then the music just takes on this life of its own.
Hmm. Thinking about, uh, becoming so, uh,
acquainted with our parents' mortality.
Mm-hmm.
is, uh, it, it's kind of conversation with you.
It's always like this for me that I'm like, Whoa,
I'm thinking about a lot of things from a new perspective and just that idea of
mortality and even death being part of what makes everything else
possible that we experience.
Totally. And, and that's what was so weird about this too,
Like this meaning, um, specifically, um, you know,
we're talking about our parents mortality and I was talking about my mother, um,
and how she has Alzheimer's. And uh, just,
it's an absolutely surreal experience because at some points you're actually
wondering, you know,
would this be easier if she could just, you know,
pass or mm-hmm. . And it's such a,
that's such a confusing thought to have,
but that's truly how painful and challenging it is
at times. Cause uh, you know, it's,
it's a complete shift in the way the brain is working and
loss of words and, and, you know, it affects everybody in different ways.
So no one can really tell you like, Okay,
well this is gonna happen next and then you can expect this . You know,
it's a, yeah. It's a completely non-linear journey. Um,
so I'm just really grateful for my whole family, my sister, my dad, um,
our, our extended family. I mean, just incredible,
incredible people that all just stepped up and supported each other. And,
you know, each step of the way we're kinda like, Hey, ,
we're improvising this experience together,
and what do we do that's best for mom? Um, yeah.
And I think we got through it in a, in a really beautiful way, but I, it is, uh,
yeah, , you know, my dad was saying this the other day, you know,
it's like none of us gets outta here alive, you know? And, um, I,
I like his kind of courageous embrace of, of mortality.
Um, and I kinda wonder, like with everything my mom's going through,
I'm wondering like, what capacity does she have to reflect on that right now?
Cause I know that there's been a lot of fear too, you know,
the change of her living situation and, um,
just confusion. You know, like you, it's,
it's when your brain is like sending, um,
signals in, in these different places or there's,
there's parts that are kind of jammed up and, and it's not,
it's not sending those, uh, al impulses, uh,
the same way it always has.
It's like there's a lot of confusion that's going on. Um,
but I, I think just the simple,
the simple act of reflecting on mortality is, um, incredibly,
incredibly powerful cuz it helps us to really embrace the present moment on a
deeper level.
Yeah. The, the idea of, um,
I'm going back to you something that you described your process of creating
music as, uh, this is my interpretation of it, of almost like, uh,
kind of getting, getting, uh,
your direction from the music as it's emerging.
Um, Absolutely.
How was it to discover, this is like a big question, I think,
How was it to discover that process?
Like what that's, that feels like a potentially really big question.
Well, I think that, I think from a young age, I understood that, um,
they create a process goes where it needs to go.
There is this mysterious ebb and flow, um,
that's occurring.
And what I can do as a creator to show up with
the vibe, with the intention, with like, why am I making this?
It could be a big idea that's related to other people could be something just
like, Hey, I just wanna play or explore this thing, or whatever it is. Um,
but grounding that initial kind of like, um,
arrow of the compass, so to speak, um,
is kind of all we can do . Like, um,
whenever, I mean, some people work a little bit differently maybe,
but I just have never found that the creative process, um,
is going to bend to your,
uh, your sense of control or your ego, uh, to an effect.
It's, it is life force itself,
and it's much bigger than you.
And I've always found that the,
the most kind of resonant music, the music that really sounds the best to me,
means the most to me, is always music.
That I've set the intention and the general direction where it's going,
and then that music starts to live and grow. And then tell me, um,
which way it wants to be.
Guided.
One of the things I run into with my creative process is exactly what you said
of getting into more, um,
more about what I want the product to be than letting,
letting it become what it's going to be.
And I think that's kind of an ego place for me.
Mm-hmm. .
Yeah.
It's, it's a,
it's a beautiful paradox because when you actually surrender into the,
into the flow,
it ends up in a place that's surprising and better than you
even imagined. That's what happens with me. Mm-hmm. . Um,
it's, uh, it's really fascinating, but I really like this,
this, um, this thread of like the creative process and life force,
you know, I mean, everything is connected. Um,
and to me it's, it's, uh, the, you know,
I think an image that kind of like show the lines of the curves of
this is like, uh, it's very, like,
you think of like life force and plants and the way the plants grow mm-hmm.
and the way that, like a garden or, uh,
nurtures or intervenes in that process, Um,
I feel very much like a gardener and this creative process is flowing,
um, and I'm tending to it. And yeah, I mean, I,
I know how I want my garden to look, and I wanna push and pull it this way,
that way, but I ultimately, as this gardener,
I can't dictate the way that, um,
this moringga tree is going to look or the way my, um,
kale shows up and, and the curves and the, and the lines and the veins.
You know, it's gonna look similar to what you think it's gonna be,
but it's gonna have its own life, you know? So I think,
uh, the most powerful music respects that in a lot of ways. Um,
you know, it's like, it's, it's always, there's always a level of improvisation,
even if you're, you know, writing stuff down and,
and scoring things and whatnot. And in this case, you know,
like working for hours and hours, um,
producing this immersive,
this immersive sound that's moving in three dimensions around people.
Um, it's, uh,
it's ultimately this, this dance of,
of all of this, all of these vibrations coming into one and, um,
and creating this, this space ultimately to,
it's a space for slowing down, and it's a space for,
for just letting things fall into place.
What, what's the moment I'm trying to describe You? Just, there are, it's,
this conversation is like making me think of a lot of different things.
So I have these moments of like, ah, okay. But in a good way.
Awesome. Yeah. It's, it's, I mean,
this is one of our struggles as humans, right?
It's like we have the power to control,
but we, we think we can control, right?
But we actually we're just part of this larger whole,
um, yeah, we need to direct the energy and that life force in the,
in the way that can be beneficial to ourselves and, um,
people around us. But, um, we can't, we can't control it.
That process. Like, think of it as a creative process. Um, well,
I guess our lives are creative processes too, when you really think about it.
But I think that's totally, you know, the,
the times in my life when I've kind of just followed
direction rather than, you know, chosen my own,
like, exact destination or something that I wanted to happen,
the times I've been able to just sort of let the flow happen mm-hmm.
, it's always paid off.
It's always turned into something better than I could have thought of.
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a lot about our vision. I mean, that's kind of,
when I'm talking about the beginning of what I'm creating,
it's like setting this intention or this vibe or whatever.
It's envisioning what this space looks like,
and that's a combination of sounds and emotions and imagery,
but it's just this general vibe and this feeling.
And I'm envisioning that, but I'm not getting into the future.
I'm actually, it's like headlights of a car, seeing what's coming up,
but I'm not actually in that, you know,
wherever that mountain is that the light is shining out. I'm actually,
I'm in the car driving in the present moment,
and then my vision's shining out so I can kind of, you know,
get an idea of what's coming up. But I'm not, like,
I'm not trying to, um, I'm not trying to control
the outcome. I'm envisioning where I want it to go. So there's like a,
there's a, a light touch and a, and a, a really drastic difference in,
in the flow right there. Um, you know, I,
I teach a lot of classes and I, I've noticed with a lot of, um,
especially younger students that, um, there,
there's kind of this almost judgment or expectation of themselves that they
are going to create this thing that may, you know,
it's like, sounds like something they've heard before, perhaps. Um,
and it's really just this judgment on themselves. I mean,
you could be inspired by something and be like, Okay, I wanna emulate, you know,
a certain track or whatever. Um, but there, there's a sense of control.
It's really, it's,
it's ultimately linked to this kind of fear of failure or
rejection of others or of themself. And there's just a lot of judgment.
And so they're never actually getting into the space where
they can just allow what they envision to occur.
They're kind of just in this fear state of like, Oh, how do I make this,
you know, sound better to be this way or this way? Um, and it's,
you know, it's not a, it's just a matter of practice, you know, it's, uh,
it's not anything that's like, Okay, we'll do this and do this like a recipe.
It's truly just a,
a matter of practice and listening to what you wanna do and experimenting and
seeing how that comes out, like thousands and thousands of times.
And then you start to realize that subtle,
that subtle touch and the grace that comes with really,
um, authentically created music, you know,
music that's coming from your heart and it's growing out.
It's not something that's like this preconceived idea of like,
this is where it needs to fit into the market , you know? Yeah. Yeah.
A's certain genre or certain things like this, you know, it's, um,
just, just music, you know, It doesn't, it doesn't have to,
it doesn't have to be labeled, uh, this way or that.
That is, uh, there's so much, there's so much loaded or,
or potentially loaded into being an artist or just
allowing ourselves to think about ourselves as artists. And then, you know,
like, there's just so much, so many levels of
validation that we feel like we need. I'm speaking for my,
for myself here too. Like, there's a lot of that that, you know,
and what you were talking about,
about allowing music to be what it is going to become
without trying to, you know, direct it. Well,
it's so much of what we have already been saying, um, but it's,
I'm just kind of being aware,
like you were talking about marketing and genre and all of those type of things
that also, you know,
become something that we're trying to turn our kale into in the garden, right?
Mm-hmm. when it's really just gonna be kale.
. Yeah. I mean, it's just, you know,
I I, I just see that, um, within myself that's like,
if I'm, I've fully given up over the years,
but like when I was younger, I've,
I think that there was definitely kinda an impulse to be like,
I wanna really control the outcome of what this thing is,
the outcome in terms of like, what it is not the outcome of like,
why does it exist and how is it
operating? How is it creating a space? How is it helping people or,
you know,
anything or augmenting someone's inspiration or experience just
in general, you know? So yeah. It's, uh,
it's just, it's just something over the years. It's like,
just have to completely let go of,
because if I'm trying so hard
to make this certain thing be what I think it should be,
then I'm not truly showing up in the moment to let it
be what it is and what, um,
what it needs to be. Right. .
Yeah.
Um, you know, it's a very kinda, I mean, it's very comic in a way.
Cause what's what's the point of making, you know,
your heart's music if you're not truly completing,
um, a new chapter in the journey?
And if you're kind of what you were saying of like,
kinda chasing things, it's like if you're in that mode,
um, you know, like
it's just, uh, there's, there's ways where you can,
you can zoom out and really think about how,
how your music is functioning, um,
for yourself and with humanity
in general. ,
instead of it being this thing where it's so driven
by a desire to kind of fit into
a certain thing or form into a certain image and,
and all these things. Um, just think that, uh,
for me, um,
I'm always striving to make the most authentic music.
And a lot of times that ends up being things that I never really heard
before, um, from myself or maybe other places too.
Um, and it's,
and it's a discovery of that vision and that
intention that I planted like a seed, you know,
sometimes years ago. But then after thousands of touches
and movements through this emerging space, and all of a sudden,
you know, this experience grows out in a way that I would've never
really, um, imagined in that exact form. But it's,
it's, it's occupying this,
this space in a way that's often better than what I was even originally
thinking it would be.
Yeah.
It's really fun .
Yeah, it's.
Really incredible.
It's kind of cool to think about the, the,
the sort of the path of your releases and like,
when I first became aware of your music, it, it, it's,
there's still a definite connection, but it's a, it's a big difference in,
in action in.
A way. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah.
I was reflecting on that recently because the 20 year anniversary of Fold Amen.
The tea is coming up here, I believe it's like next month.
And that was released in 2002. That was kind of my first official, you know,
distributed release as, uh, under my, my own name. Yeah.
And yeah, just, it just kind of hit me, It's like, oh wow,
it's been 20 years of putting this music out and then kind of
tracing the thread of how the music keeps changing in different ways. And,
um, yeah,
what you said is interesting cuz it actually was resonating with what I was
doing. I was like, like harmonically,
there's this similar thing that I'm always wanting to explore
in these like, um, cord melody type work.
Um, it's almost like making music that's just like, uh,
it's like elongated, slowed down guitar solos, ,
or something like this. Like it's, yeah, it's like, it's, uh, the,
the chords and the melodies kind of all go together, but then I've been,
you know, playing with different,
all these different ways to do it over the years,
and there's definitely been a number of twists and turns and so, so grateful,
um, for all the exploration. And I remember thinking when I was younger, like,
um, I kinda made a promise to myself. I was like, I'm never, you know,
I'm always gonna be listening to where the music wants to go,
which is gonna be, you know,
extricable linked to my own personal, um,
evolution and journey, um, and this whole cosmos here.
And so, um, to really do the music, um, and this,
and myself and the process and the people around me, um, to do them,
do them good. It's like I have to surrender my
kind of, uh,
expectations of like how things should end up sounding . Um,
and I'm, it's really liberating, but it's also, you,
you're kind of like looking into the abyss a little bit too. Um,
but ultimately I think I've been really a much happier artist over these
last 20 years. Um, there's never been like an existential crisis. Like,
what am I doing and, you know,
or feeling locked into some type of a sound because that's what everyone's
expecting you to do. I've always just been like,
I want people to expect that I'm just gonna, you know,
I want people to expect that they're not gonna expect something in a way. Yeah.
Like even the next album from Gravity, it's, you know,
might be a whole hundred 80 degree turn from that. And Sure.
On one side that might be like, you know,
some people would say that's like this bargaining suicide or something.
And it's like, well, you know, sorry, that's just,
this is what, if this is the music that needs to happen at this time,
then that's gonna happen. You know, it's like, I'm not gonna be,
I'm not gonna be, uh, changing that just because, you know,
people think this needs to happen or, or something else needs to happen,
You know what I mean? That that would be authentic, um,
music in my opinion.
Yeah. This is, they're like, a lot of times in these conversations on,
on the podcast that I, they're little moments that I'm like, Oh,
this is why I'm talking to this person. Like, per my,
my personal like unlocking. And, um,
I think a lot of what kind of, in my creative process lately,
something about the pandemic really kind of made me start thinking like, Well,
I don't know what I'm, I wanna make next.
And it's really interesting to think about, like,
maybe just start making it and see.
What it's, Oh my gosh, yes. I mean,
that's how everything begins for me is like,
just play, you know? Yeah. Um,
having a vision of where things can go and then just playing.
And then sometimes the intention will just be
to explore, you know? That's fine. That's like enough of a, you know,
direction. Just explore . Yeah. See what, see what feels good,
Try a new technique, try this, try that.
And then something comes up and then that sparks the vision and
then you're like, Okay,
now I can see these things falling into place and you slow down with it. Listen.
And then just work your ass off . And that's the trick too, right?
Because I worked my ass off on this album,
but the whole time I was reminding myself to have a light touch, you know,
and to constantly, like, if something needs to be changed,
it doesn't matter where I'm in the process, I'm gonna do that. And, um,
gratefully over time you learn how you work and you learn how these, how the,
this mysterious flow of creativity starts to emerge through your body and out
into the music. And, you know, I can know that, okay,
this is the time of the album that I'm probably gonna think the whole thing is
just horrible , and that's okay. You know,
like that's part of the process. And then I'm gonna get through that,
and then there's gonna be another mountain and that's fine too. You know. Um,
there's always that time, like towards the end of, um,
like compos, it's basically when I'm, I'm starting to like mix.
Mm-hmm. .
And, you know, I've, I've put down all,
you know, um, instruments, so no, I'm not adding guitar anymore,
or bass scent or whatever is, is in there. I'm just like, Okay,
that's done. I'm going to, to mixing.
And there's always gonna be a time where I'm just like,
it's almost like a little bit of a grieving, um,
cuz you know, it's like you, you must surrender and, and, uh,
and then it turns quick. You know, it's just like a phase of the moon.
All of a sudden. It's just like you listen,
give yourself a little space maybe and listen again. You're like, Oh my gosh,
this, this is, I was just in my head, you know?
I was just completely creating this whole reality.
And so now when I start to have little like, kind of seeds of those thoughts, I,
I am like, ah, I can laugh at it. I'm be like, Wow,
that's something that's so interesting that like, um, I'm kind of, you know,
experiencing this from like a different vantage point. You know,
I can see the ups and downs.
I can kind of almost have like a look ahead to know, okay,
well there's a valley coming up here and it's all good.
And then it's not really a valley, you know, it's, it's just,
it's just part of the, part of the flow.
Yeah. Oh yeah. So like letting all of it,
that's our, that's the takeaway. Let it all, like all the whole process, the.
Music, let it all fall into place.
Yeah. And your response to it and your like inevitable, um,
push and pull with what you think of your own work.
It's just part of the experience.
It's so fun. I mean, yeah. Kind of talking deeper into that a little bit,
it's like finding the balance of
working very hard towards this
objective, you know, like finishing an album, let's say. Um,
and at the same time, you know,
surrendering to what it is, um, it's,
it's, it's just an incredible, um,
balancing act at times because there are,
there are moments where you've just got to
like, put your seatbelt on and just dig into
some, like, the work that maybe isn't as fun , you know? Yeah.
You gotta just, you gotta just, um, chop the wood and carry the water.
And then, but when you relieve the judgment that, Oh,
this isn't as fun as playing guitar, You know, I'm talking about like,
once you get into mixing stuff or really just the first,
first kind of phases of mixing for me, I'm,
you gotta kinda like warm up into the process. Cause I'm like, ah,
I just wanna keep playing guitar . Yeah. And so let it go.
And then all of a sudden it just like opens up and it's like the, you know,
it's the most fun thing in the world to just, um,
explore like exactly where these different frequencies need to fall
into place with each other.
And just that tiny little bit of compression and which tool,
or should I use this like analog compressor on there that has this
very subtle thing, Should I use this other digital tool that's doing this thing?
And you start to,
these very microscopic kind of details start to emerge
that are related to the whole larger flow, um,
of like the core progressions and, and the different, um,
wavelike motion of this, this core melody work and stuff like that. So it's,
um, it's, it's really just about being present when you, when you boil it down,
you know, it's like you're,
you're envisioning this experience and
every single moment that you are touching and creating,
uh, this music, you are, you are embodying that experience.
Right? So it's like every, every single touch is kind of like,
it all,
like stratifies into this experience that
that happens, uh, you know, in a,
in a linear sense in the future.
But we're actually every moment creating it through that.
So it's,
it's actually just like very non-linear kind of
timeless thing.
Cause at the very beginning I'm seeing an envisioning kinda where it's gonna go,
but I'm not controlling it. And then as I get to the end, then I'm also seeing,
you know, or or kind of reflecting on these are,
these are the inspirations of the vibes and the space that like,
brought this to be. And now it's,
it's showing up for me in a way that, um, I maybe didn't expect.
Um, but it's, you know, it's,
it's completing this really important, uh,
process or kind of chapter for me.
Uh, it's always so good to talk to you about this stuff. It's like.
Really, It's cool. Cause yeah,
it seems like our conversations usually tend to fall on creative process things.
That's really cool. Yeah. I mean, cause you're a creator man. Yeah. And you,
and you're like, you're,
you're making within so many different materials and things.
So it's like you're, And I think that's, that's part of it too.
You start to understand these different kind of like, wave lengths of, it's all,
it's all connected for sure. But there's these different wave lengths of, um,
you know, for me it's like the,
the music and it's all the components of that music and it's like the visuals
and then, um, it's, you know, the,
the writing and stuff.
Cause I do a lot of writing that goes around it and it all just,
it informs each other in a different way and they all have these
different kind of like, nuances to it. Um,
so yeah, I think maybe it's like, cuz you,
you've worked with all these kind of different materials, um,
and you've been exploring all these different sounds and ways to kinda present
those to people. Um, this, you know,
that this conversational like creative process really becomes like
foregrounded cuz you're always exploring.
And it is a really good reinforcement of the exploration part of
all of that.
Mm-hmm. .
Yeah.
Really is, it's all an exploration. That is for sure.
beautiful. I'm looking at the time and it's,
we need to wrap up this part of our conversation, but I want talk wrap up about,
we're gonna wrap it up, but I wanna listen to Regrowth. Um,
is there anything you wanna say about regrowth before we, uh,
say goodbye and listen to.
The trip? Yeah, yeah. Regrowth. Um, well I just wanna,
I just wanna say, um, you know,
for anyone out there listening,
thank you for listening and I encourage you to just put some headphones
on and lie down on your bed and just let this music
take you wherever it needs to go. And just feel it slow down.
Um, let things fall into place. Um, um,
and that's, you know, regrowth again,
each of these tracks is very much like these,
the same feelings I was talking about with Crescent were emerging and these
different shapes that actually came about. Uh,
it was the night after we, um,
moved my mother out of the house she created for us. And, um,
it was incredibly, uh,
surreal and bizarre and sad and, um, unknown.
And, um, got back from that and I was just like,
I was just flattened. I was just like, like a pancake .
It was just like laying on the grounds. Like, oh man,
that is the kinda thing where it's like really hitting like the mortality level.
Um, but on this other kind of side branch where you're like,
Oh my goodness, like this is, this is a kind of a,
a torturous situation for my mother, you know, and kind of trying to,
wanting to support her, but it's like kind of feeling like we had failed.
You know,
there's like a lot of kind of guilt type feelings that are coming through it
too. Cause she's like, Why can't we just take care of really 24 7? But, um,
it's just, it's really hard.
And plus we were very grateful to have the o like the options to be able to get
her into a memory care place. So, um,
regrowth basically emerged that evening and after I
was a pancake , I was like, I need to make music. And then I just,
I just kept hearing these chords. I just wanted to this,
uh, very,
very like stripped down and misty, um,
chord melody thing to happen. And as I started playing the music,
really just expressing what I was feeling, um,
I could just feel all this. I, it really felt like my heart was regrowing.
It was like this whole paradigm shift was happening at our family at this time.
And also this shift of um,
you know, like my relationship to my mom.
She took care of me and now I'm taking care of her , you know,
that mm-hmm. ,
this whole role reversal thing that we experience in our lives. Um,
I could just feel this regrowth happening. So that's,
that's why it's called Regrowth.
Uh, I'm really looking forward to re-listening to these tracks,
knowing more of the, this background.
Oh, awesome.
Uh, alright. So we should listen to Regrowth, um,
and also say goodbye. Your, uh,
website is christopher willits.com and, uh, is,
well, I'll put links in the show notes for this, where to find the album. Uh,
anything else I should,
we should include or say for people to track down the album and your work?
I think that's it. .
Perfect.
Just, yeah, I think you can find it. Yeah, just search,
search my name and search and it'll come up and, um,
if anyone's in San Francisco come through Envelope SF and,
uh,
you can listen to it in 32 Speaker three Dimensional sound,
but headphones are nice too, so just lie down on your bed and just, uh,
just let the music take you where it needs to go.
Oh, love it. And that's on my list. I really want to go to Envelope.
Uh,
maybe that's something we can talk about really briefly in the bonus podcast,
which, uh, patrons can find at patron.com/bylar. Right.
Anyway, enough of that stuff, , I didn't wanna talk too much,
but between your description of the song and the song. So, um,
this is regrowth and thank you for joining me, Christopher.
Thank you. So.
And so we come to the end of another episode of Mikey Podd.
Thank you so much for listening. Thank you Chris, for, for being on the show.
Um, always an inspiration and it's,
I don't know if I understated it in the beginning of this interview,
but literally I had not, well,
I had dabbled in electronic music very, very slightly.
Like in high school I had a great synthesizer,
which I wish I still had the role in Juno 1 0 6, um, back in the day.
Oh, I still wish I had that keyboard. Every time I mention it I'm like, Oh,
they're still available,
but they're getting more and more expensive and there are, Anyway, this is,
I really miss that keyboard. Um, but, uh, the point is,
um, when I first met Christopher, it was through, uh,
Rii Sakamoto, they did an album together and I wrote to um, uh,
Sakamoto s I'm always concerned I'm mispronouncing his name,
but I think I have it right. Um, I wrote to his, um,
management about getting an interview and they said they couldn't set that up,
but would I like to talk to Christopher Willits? And I was like, Oh, okay.
But it was a really , it feels like over the top to say it,
but it was a life changing thing because the conversations I have with him every
time are, um, opening for me,
which is interesting cuz that's the name of one of his albums.
And also it was through discovering his work in my conversation
with him and some of the tutorials he had online at the time that introduced me
to Ableton Live, which is what I have used as. Like,
it's what I'm using to make this podcast now.
Like right now I'm recording on Ableton Live. Um,
and I learned the software and it's what I've used for my solo shows and my
albums. I use it for so much and it,
it changed the way I make music and it opened
the way for me to create my own music and, uh,
experiment and, and learn like, oh,
this software is so good, it's for someone like me. Like it's great. And,
uh, it's Christopher Woods that really directed me to it. So Christopher,
thank you. Um, yeah, I get,
I get sort of stunned thinking about, you know,
what's changed for me over the years. Anyway, uh, thanks so much for listening.
Thank you Christopher for, uh,
sharing your music and your heart with this, uh, podcast.
And I will see all of you next time.