I think the most daunting of all of
that was the website. And we had no
idea how much volume we were gonna get
on the first day. We were asked to
prepare for about a million an hour, and
I kind of did the back math, and
I just quickly said, you know, it's free
it's open to the whole nation. Test gets
us scarce. Covid is rampant. There's no way
it's only gonna be a million an hour.
Welcome to activation. I'm your host peter eye.
My guest today is P mara. Pre is
the chief information officer and executive vice President
of the United States postal service or Usps,
a role she's held for a bit more
than 3 and a half years.
She's worked at the Us Ps for 34
years in total. As Cio, Pre oversees 1
of the world's largest technology
infrastructures with 5 national deployments and solution centers
32000 network locations, 20000 servers and more than
930
applications on more than a hundred and 80000
devices, processing more than a hundred and 10
pet of data per year.
Pre focused on modernizing the Usps ecosystem, platform
a network to meet the demands of an
increasingly competitive market environment
overseeing a network that supports 640000
employees.
And the delivery of a hundred and 27000000000
pieces of mail per year. I look forward
to hearing more about the transformation she's leading
through this conversation. Pre the welcome to techno
innovation. It's great to speak with you today.
Thank you, Peter. It's a remarkable scale as
I was just just referring to and I'm
looking forward to understanding how you and the
team, grapple with all of that and indeed
modernize it along the way as well. But
I I think every, at least American listening
would, have some familiarity with the
Usps.
Any aspect of the organization you'd highlight is
perhaps less understood facets of what you all
do.
Oh, I guess there must be several that.
You know? So 1 is we're a 250
year old
institution.
And, you know, of course, you see or
carry on the street. And everyone knows that.
I don't know if everyone knows that we
deliver to a hundred and 67000000
addresses in the country. So we cover every
state, every town.
And, of course, that
everyone pays the same price
for a first class mail stamp, you know,
from point a to point b. Right? And
we process over 44
percent. Up the world's mail, and that's pretty
big.
1 of the things that people don't generally
know is that
we're an independent agency of the executive branch.
So
we we
are required to operate like a business. We
don't get
appropriation. We engage in both the competitive parcel
business as well as a non competitive mail
services.
And so really in the parcel space, we
face fierce
competition, and, you know, so we are self
sustaining.
And
we have we're a retail giant. We have
over 33000
post offices, so we are larger than
subway and Mcdonald's and all of that. Right?
And
on the technology side, you you set it.
We have
1 of the world's largest technology
infrastructures we process
over a hundred and 15 terabytes of of
data.
We have, you know, 5 solution centers,
lots and lots of
applications. So, yeah.
We're big.
Indeed, indeed that that is surely the case.
I I wanted to also ask you to
provide a bit of an overview as to
your role as chief information officer. What's within
your purview, please?
So
you know, I'm gonna start by giving you
our mission statement because I think it's really
cool. We came up with it, like, 4
years ago and it's still very relevant, and
it's a very elegant 1. So... And it
goes like this. It like we create business
value
through an adaptive talent rich workforce,
inspired by compost
technologies that drive innovative solutions, build insights and
since the future. That's our mission statement.
And my role, well, you know,
we had that my group heads the technology
out of this
organization. And by now I sure you might
have heard of the delivering for America plan,
which was drawn up by Lewis Joy our
post master general,
3 years ago. And it's really a very
exciting time to be a Cio because there's
a lot of investment
in the growth of our business. So we
have been modernizing
everything. So, you know, 1 of my mission
critical strategies is to modernize our mission critical
ecosystems and platforms. So,
I mean, literally,
we're modernizing
payroll and visibility and data and logistics and
fleet management
customer engagement platforms, which to me is very
critical. So that's 1 of our primary roles
and very heavily involved in Saas because we
don't want to build anything that's beautiful out
there. So,
you know, so that's that. So
data is another very key strategy of ours.
We want to really maximize the value of
data as a strategic asset for the postal
service and really use data to drive value.
So, you know,
mission excellence across
logistics processing,
delivery,
and, of course, customer product solution. So data
is huge for us.
Of course, we also manage the infrastructure and
the telecom network. And we're also modernizing
that.
We're actually replacing our entire telecom network with
a highly redundant
system that's highly performing with with capacity for
growth. 0 trust on the cyber side. We
cyber is very critical and everyone owns security
in our organization. We've done a lot to
really promote security first.
The cis group used to be the most
hated
organization.
Across the Cio,
but not anymore.
Everyone realizes how essential they are, and they've
really matured in their practice
and in their
incident management and in their, you know,
detection capability.
So we are very, very heavily involved in
setting up a 0 trust environment and we
do use those frameworks pretty
vigorously.
And then, of course,
we want to
really make
workforce,
really do everything we can for promoting workforce
productivity
whether it's enabling the workforce with a mobile
device,
engineering the
environments for the for the workforce.
So that that is also a critical strategy.
And then 1, that's my favorite is of
course, creating a really
digitally, dexter next generation Cio
workforce because, you know, that is really the
key to a legacy is
just
promoting that,
curiosity
around technology,
which I think is very critical.
Or like that digitally dexter,
great great turner phrase and and appreciate that
broader context stuff as to what you and
your team do. Well, you you send it
to your role,
just a few months into the Covid pandemic.
And I've read a bit about the remarkable
role that the Usps plate during the pandemic
ensuring that Covid tests were shipped in a
timely fashion. Can you talk a bit about
the the role your organization play to help
me that challenge?
Yeah. And IIII
say Kudos to, lewis joy for this 1
the post mass channel, when White House approached
him. I think it was Christmas of 20
21 and said that they wanted to deliver
these test throughout the nation. They wanted to
start in 3 weeks.
Literally, I got a phone call on the
20 sixth of December. I never forget this.
And and he I was asked to
set up an ordering
website for the nation in 3 weeks.
Now, we've we've never done anything crazy like
that. So,
my my, the team's role was essentially to
be responsible for all the systems,
ordering,
inventory, fulfillment and customer care, tracking.
All these systems, but I think the most
don't daunting of all of that was the
website because that's very front facing. You know,
if anything fails the back nobody knows. But
when you go into order a test kit,
and and it was going to be free,
and we had no idea how much volume
we were gonna get on the first day.
We were asked to prepare for about a
million
an hour, and,
I kind of did the back math and
I just quickly said, you know,
it's free. It's open to the whole nation.
Test gets us scarce.
Covid is rampant. There is no way it's
only gonna be a million an hour. So
I figured at least 1 third of the
population would order test kits within the first
2 days. And so I asked my team
to plan for 20000000
an hour. They were pretty mad me actually.
And we we built AA3
pronged approach.
We did 2 cloud solutions and 1 on
prem. We already had a a postal store
where people can go an order stamped. And
so we had 1 team working on that,
and we thought, oh, that's obvious. The other
smart thing we really did was it was
really smart was we... Within the first week
of this project, we started
load testing.
So we... The website wasn't... Wasn't completely built,
but we just built the the portion where
someone can go in our order. And on
all these 3 sites, and then it was
almost like a competition with the 3 teams
on who's going to get there first.
And, of course, the cloud solution 1, and
it was a very elegant design. We use
a lot of capabilities that we already had
in our organization like Half queues and asynchronous
cloud processing
and so it wasn't like everything was new.
The website was new. And then we really
partnered with the cloud providers,
and we let everyone know. We took the
entire journey of the order.
And we made sure that every system we
touched
was scaled and ready and load test it.
So we even called all the email providers
and said, you know, we're gonna get lots
of emails coming to your systems because when
someone comes into order. We send an email
back to them saying, you know, your order
been fulfilled and all of that. We've accepted
the order. We're fulfilling it.
So so I think we were very careful
and very meticulous about,
you know, every step of that order, making
sure that we had those systems tested,
load tested,
you know, calling all our partners that were
involved in it, all the vendors that were
involved in it. And I tell you it
was Eu for on the first day because
we had no idea, you know, how many
orders we were gonna get. I think on
the first day at peak hour was close
to 9000000.
So I wasn't that far off. And within
the first 2 days, I think it was
over 40 to 15000000.
So... And I think the and the other
thing that I must acknowledge is really the
leadership of our post master general, bringing all
the teams across the organization together. And designing
a really elegant
fulfillment system. So, you know, these test kits
came to us in palettes. We received them
in 6
distribution centers, and then we had
fulfillment centers about 49 across the nation where
these ballots were sent. They were broken down,
and they were you know, put into envelopes
and kidd it for to a pack of
labels and then shipped out.
And
quite a phenomenal story. We... I think we...
We have delivered about 885000000
tests to about 90000000 households.
So pretty phenomenal story. Yeah. It's 1 of...
It's a feather and the Cios cap for
sure.
No was doubt. No doubt a Federal story
So I'm glad you've you've just told it
now, a remarkable 1 you and your team,
we're able to undertake. And And I wonder,
obviously,
Nec is the mother of intervention and,
quite a number of necessity were we're brought
about as a result of the pandemic. But
I wonder as a result of of the
great work done.
If there are any new ways of working
or innovating that we're developed that now have
a shelf life or a means operating now
sort of post pandemic or however you might
refer to this period.
Are there people applied?
Yes. Of course. Lessen the organization, firstly, you
know, we are uniquely capable to reach every
door, well positioned to support agencies, customers in
delivering product at high quantities and vas.
You know, 1 doesn't think of the postal
service that way. But, you know when
when put to the test, the whole
organization came together really mission oriented,
this is a very mission oriented
organization. I think on the technology side, we
demonstrated that we can be very agile and
dexter.
We've also harness a lot of the technologies
that we built,
around Covid for other
projects that require that
you know, that evidence of scale. And mostly
everything we do is evidence at scale.
You know, the ka
the technology is like,
you know, 1 that we've now
becomes so very familiar with. It drove a
new level of excellence at high speeds
among our technology team. So it was a
big learning on the technology team on their
ability to deliver
such a big project in 3 weeks, working
together, and I think it also brought a
lot more camera
across the technology
organizations.
You know, in my own team, the development
group, the infrastructure group, the Cis group the
data group. You name it, you know,
definitely, our endpoint technology group. And then I
think we also learned the power of saying
yes. You know, It's easy to say no,
And it's impossible.
But, like, you know, when we were trying
to buy printers to print that labels across
a covid. You remember the supply chain issues,
so printers were not available. So we had
to call
all our partners, and
and we got the job done. So, yeah.
It's just a whole new energy and a
whole can do attitude.
That's fantastic. Real really interesting and and can
imagine how how much pride that must give
the organization as well.
You, I mentioned at the outset that you've
been with the Usps for roughly 34 years
now. So you've seen many waves of of
technology,
come and go as a result of that.
And and you've you've been part of,
catalyst for change and modernization within the organization
to ensure that a better foundation continues to
be weighed upon which the organization innovate. And
I wonder if you can reflect on some
of the recent
transformations, and activities associated with modernization that have
particularly propelled the organization forward? What what comes
to mind?
I'll start by talking about sort of some
of the the constructs that these...
That I saw to achieve here. 1 is
technology curiosity.
And I feel that these enough things you
forced down somebody's throat. You have to create
a culture of technology curiosity.
So we've done that.
We we actually... When I first started, that
was the biggest thing I thought of. We
were not... Not a cloud shop
minimally a cloud shop? You know, we we
built a lot of things. So how do
you create the technology curiosity. And I don't
know. 1 day, I just woke up and
said I'm gonna do tech chats.
III was listening to something about fireside side
chats, and that just came to mind, and
we started tech chats.
What we did was we brought in vendors,
solution providers, it was pretty much open to
anyone. It is open to anyone. And they
could come in and they could describe
a technology. And my only requirement was that
you have to talk about technology
because this is a Cio team. And so
the first 1 we had, I remember, I
had asked
the guy who leads
architecture, Jerry Wheeler. Said. Can we do 1
on Ai? So why don't we let just
have everyone listen to a podcast and then
you just do a chat?
With them. And he did that. He picked
the... He picked the podcast,
sent it out, and then he invited all
of Cio. And I said, you know, even
if 20 people join, I'll be happy, and
we had over 500 people join.
So people love this, and we are very
open to the market. The other thing that
we have sought to change is really promoting
market awareness.
And looking
outside of the
organization.
We really promoted people going out to conferences
to
trade shows,
especially technology
to all the, you know, the cloud workshops,
the Rs say conferences
because I think that's really important in people
understanding what's out there. And then whenever we
select a mission critical
operation that we want to modernize.
Like, 1 of the ones I'm most proud
of is our logistics
operation. When we started, this journey 3 years
ago, we literally were doing setting of,
suppliers and and
transportation carriers with Excel spreadsheets and phone calls.
And then we stitched together,
5 Saas products,
1 for
transportation management, 1 for visibility, 1 for contracting,
1 for fuel management, 1 for fleet management.
Best in class, we stitch them all together,
and that's our new logistics ecosystem, and we
did this in a year, and it's huge.
And and the way we were successful was
previously,
we would as a technology
organization go out and put out a bid
and wait for people to come back,
and we weren't even clear what we what
we should ask for because we were so
legacy in our thinking that we didn't really
know what best in class was. Today, what
we do is we just invite people
come in and chat with us. And, you
know, everyone loves to talk the postal service
because we're such a big
player. So
just come in and talk to us about
transportation management, and we look up the magic
quadrant and find the 5 best players and
just have them chat with us.
I tell you in a matter of a
week, you've learned so much.
So that... And then the other thing we
really did was we really grew
architecture team. There were 8 people when I
started,
it's in excess of 50 people now.
Journey mapping is really important. So whenever we
are trying to modernize or anything,
we first journey map the current state. It's
really important to understand legacy a And way
you're coming from before you can define where
you wanna go to.
Especially an organization like ours. Where no system
is on its own. It's always integrated with
tons and tons of applications. So the power
of journey mapping is all over the Cio
group. Everyone knows, you know, when you do
modernization,
we have a very strong
architecture team that has laid out this process
of journey mapping. So really, those are some
of the constructs that we sought to
sort of perm
across the organization. So there's a lot of
segment.
And then the last paradigm is really understanding
the business that you're automating. So previously, we
would receive a requirements from the business and
then do exactly as we were told.
Whereas now, we've changed that whole paradigm and
in in the Cio group where we back
actually developed verticals of excellence where our folks
are required to know the business that they
are modernizing. So if you a modernized payroll.
If you need to understand this the extreme
payroll process, what other the deductions, you know,
all of that how does a paycheck get
created? And that's very exciting to see because,
when you really partner with the business at
that level, the van you of your organization
really
advances. So those are some of the constructs
that we've changed, and that has allowed us
now to really
catapult out into bringing in
modernization at a scale and speed that's unprecedented.
Right? So we've modernized our logistics platform as
I told you, we've also created an entire
the data group. We've got chief data and
analytics office.
And we're really now thinking about... We've got,
you know, an Ai policy and Ai
implementation, a data policy, the data
implementation because an organization as large as ours
as has massive amounts of data. So we
have to make sure that when we modernize,
we're not creating these silo data sets, data
is no longer owned by an organization, it's
enterprise,
and we treat it as an enterprise asset,
and we make sure that when you're modernizing
1 1 system that needs scan data of
every package.
We propagated it against every consumer of that
that information. So it's it's truly enterprise.
Oh, and the other... I think the other,
modernization initiative that I'm really proud of is
that we have deployed and Api platform for
our customers. I think that's going to be
the beginning of some really cool things to
come. So this really helps are really wide
and
diverse
industry, engage with us and create technological
solutions whether it's for package delivery or whether
it's for mail delivery.
Fascinating examples all. I appreciate those p... And
among innovations, I've also,
learned that Usps has implemented has been digital
twins to track parcels and packages. Can you
talk a bit about the the the use
of digital twins in that way?
Oh, sure. So every package
that touches our system,
we
basically create a digital
representation of of the pack.
The journey starts with a notice from our
shipping partners telling us that a product has
been offered.
It's in the fulfillment process
and it'll be tender shortly to the postal
service. Right? So there's there's your first event.
Right? Then continuing through acceptance of a package
whether it's a physical scan performed by an
employee or a passive scan that's performed by
1 of our state of the art package
orders
there you get more events. Right? When that
package then gets loaded on to transport, you
get wet crumbs from, you know, your vehicles
as they're transporting
our packages through surface. We get
notifications from my air carriers. Right? And then,
of course, as the last mile intelligence when
it reaches the post office when it's out
for delivery when it's in the vehicle and
then when it's delivered. All of these events
are captured as a digital
representation so that we can
have a complete knowledge
in intelligence
out the whereabouts of a package. And the
value is twofold. It's internally to make sure
that we are processing it, efficiently correctly
promoting the service excellence that our market wants.
And then also advising
as you know by now,
customers
because there is an incredible need to know
exactly where the package is and when it's
gonna show up at the door. And if
they have been any reasons for non delivery
or, you know, the persons moved or whatever.
So, yeah. I mean, and we're getting
we're spending a lot of investments on really
getting better at
understanding
locations. Of our assets because that brings a
lot of value, and especially in in as
we wanna promote service excellence,
it's really, really critical.
Fascinating example, again, I really appreciate you sharing
a bit more about the the way in
which you thought about that. I... Another area
I know that you've put a lot of
thought into is role a tech and digital
play and enhancing employee experience. Can you talk
a bit about the conclusions you've drawn and
as a result, some of the solutions you've
defined order to, to aid that employee experience?
You know, when I think about employee experience,
it's twofold full. It's
us as a Cio group making sure that
we have the right technologies for every employee
in our force, but it's also
how do you keep the Cio
employees engaged and excited. And, you know, we
spent a lot of energy on both both
sides of the coin there.
We are... We believe in strongly and invest
in the development of our employees.
When we first started this journey, we actually
created digital badges.
Where we did an assessment of the skill
sets that were lacking in our organization, and
then we
identified courses
and we created almost curriculum for our employees,
and we posted it and said, go forth
and have fun, you know, whether it's a
cloud
certification whether it's a data scientist whether it's
algorithms,
statistics,
math, lots of math. And so we put
this out and said, okay, folks, we're all
for it. And and that was very exciting
because... And then we also toll folks, you...
You're not limited to these courses if you
find courses you like. The only requirement is
that you come back and tell. And maybe
enhance our curriculum.
We do offer a lot of training, a
lot of Sandbox
opportunities.
I talked to you about the tech that
has been
super successful,
not only do we encourage outside vendors to
come in, but we also encourage people from
our own organization. If you have a topic
you wanna talk to people about
have added. Come on We continuing to draw
over 500
participants from our group, and we've covered a
wide range of topics, you know, whether it's
Ai, machine learning,
devs sec ops, Ka, you name it,
you know, there's been a tech chat on
it. We're really creating a culture of empowerment
transformation, agility, flexibility.
We are also making sure that our
organization is exposed to to the business side.
So in our tech chats, we have tech
chats. And then we have Cio chats. And
in the Cio chats, we actually invite other
leaders in our organization to explain their business
to the Cio team. So that's also been
very useful because as people build, it's important
for them to to understand the big picture
where all the technology
progress,
what kind of value it's driving. We've done
a lot to recognize
employees, we we have a Cio or newsletter
where we actually promote.
Anytime someone puts out a project
you know, we do a lot but promoting
the stories.
On the side of, you know, promoting,
we've really done a lot of work in
growing our endpoint experience for our employees. We
have a helped test that used to have
a average wait time in line was I
don't know. 2 hours, 3 hours, and now
it's, you know, under 10.
Not where we it to be, but really
moving.
We're trying to strive to be the organization
that a person never has a problem with
their
experience their technology
experience to do their job. We've really crept
done a lot to make our supervisors
and managers
mobile with their technology.
And, yeah. So there's been a lot of,
very proud of the walk that my team
has done in this space.
Rightfully so. Rightfully so.
We've talked about numerous trends through this conversation.
Those associated with data, Apis, the cloud. We
we talked about digital twins a few moments
ago, among other topics. As you look to
the future,
pre... Are there other trends that particularly excite
you, whether technology or or other trends beyond
them?
The first trend in our organization is the
delivering for America plan. I am really excited
about what Lewis is doing. I think just
the way red withdrawing the entire network to
be so efficient, so
optimized,
really promoting excellence and then long term viability
of our organization,
very important trend in our organization. And it's
almost like a fever now in our organization
for folks to read take
ownership of their portion of the delivering for
America plan and really grow it out. It's
what we're doing in our organization for sure.
I am also like everyone else, I'm actually
very excited about Ai and ml. We have
brought it into our organization in a big
way in many areas.
And I think the possibilities
are endless. We are now looking at... I
mean, we've harness
this
machine learning our Ai in many, many areas,
1, you know, whether it's customer service excellence
of
using natural language processing,
for our help tasks,
definitely using many different,
Ml models for predicting delivery.
I think there is a tremendous opportunity for
using that for really
optimizing our processing and logistics
operations,
you know, getting a lot my intelligence on
volume
predictions and workload
predictions,
I think the possibilities are endless there. On
the business of the Cio,
I think that is also where we have
started playing. If you look at the entire
software development life cycle, I think whether it's
called creation, whether it's code understanding,
legacy code understanding, whether it's code test saying,
we've actually started
playing around a lot with that.
And that's actually folks are really excited about
that because
we have a we have about 900 legacy
applications.
And,
you know, for the ones that, and we're
not marked recognizing all of them. We're modernizing
them based on a priority of the d
D that's delivered for America plan. But
as we modernized, we're harnessing a lot of
these
technologies to understand what the legacy code is
because like everyone else. I'm sure we don't
have great practices in in in
documentation and all of this. So let technology
do it for you. The other area where
I'm really excited about it it is in
organizing our data
because we are an organization that just has
an
growing an unlimited amount of data? And how
do you harness that? And how do you
really drive the value from the data. I
think that's another area where And Ml plays
a huge role.
So, yeah. I
I'm I'm 1 of those that loves to
jump into new technologies, so
I'm having a field day.
You're at the right place. It sounds like.
I will also ask P.
As you reflect on your career, especially the
your your career with Usps and the heights
that you've reached,
have been some of the different speakers along
the way that it helped propel you to
now your current post as chief information officer.
I think curiosity.
I always question the work I'm doing. So
I I look at outcomes to see am
I making a difference?
I'm 1 that really loves change.
And so I give this piece of advice
to folks that if you ever come into
your job and you feel that you're stealth
or you're like.
You're not moving at it, you're bored or
it's just I don't wanna do this for
another day,
then seek to change. So,
you know, this organization... I've stayed here for
34 years because it's really allowed me to
really jump careers
on and on. You know, it's a it's
a unique organization where someone who has a
technology background like me, then jumped on to
sales. I worked in the sales and product
development group. And then, you know, I
I learned the business side and then, you
know, went back to technology. So I think
that that is really important is when you
feel like around day and you're stuck,
drive yourself to bring change, which I did.
And I always volunteered,
you know, whenever there was anything to do,
I would just say I'll do it. You
know, even if it wasn't mine to do.
And then this is what my dad taught
me, which It sticks to me. Is it's
like, Any job we're doing is worth doing
well. So always put your best foot forward.
Even if it's boring,
you know, if you're taking the time to
do it, you might as well do the
best you can. Then, you know, in an
organization like ours, it's very easy to
use the word bureaucracy.
And I coined the phrase for myself. I
said, you know, you are the bureaucracy you
experience.
And by that, I mean, if you really
wanted to break down the barriers you could.
And so don't blame the bureaucracy.
And that I've invested in myself. I've, you
know, gone to school a lot. I love
going to school. So,
you know,
we used to we take a team to
Silicon Valley almost every year. We haven't done
it for a bit. Was very exciting because
you just think differently when you meet people
that are in... That are 4 runners in
their space.
I think the most important thing
for me is developing people.
Building high performance teams. I think that is
really
where the teamwork is really important.
And how do you build high performing teams?
I think my
organization,
my direct reports, it's it's a wonderful comrade
now. It's just... I think we've got a
really
high performing group, you know, and you we
couldn't be if we we couldn't do it
if we had... With the amount we have
to deliver. We've got to have that ins
need for excellence and drive
and to really look at spending your time
on things that are meaningful to the organization.
Very well put. Well, you you spoke earlier
about the importance of learning, and now the
fact that curiosity is among the secrets to
your success. I I know you're also a
reader and consumer of content would be, an
interest of learning among other reasons.
Wonder... Is there anything you've recently read or
listened to and or watch that you would
particularly recommend, P?
Oh, boy.
I listened to a lot of podcast. I
think I was telling you earlier that Friedman
podcast are very interesting to me. Let's.
Yeah.
And then I read... I recently read a
book that was really interesting. I think it
was called the chip wars.
Yes.
Was it Chip wars? Am I saying the
name right? Did you think have ship war.
That this 1? Chip war. Right. Right. Right.
I found that book fascinating.
I mean,
the whole
chip story. I'm, it's fascinating and a bit
scary too.
Yeah.
But III do like podcasts a lot. And
I listen to a lot of them. I
like to listen to. I haven't found
enough
in the spaces that I'm looking for, but
Friedman podcast is really good. I do enjoy
his.
Wonderful. Well all the great recommendations.
And and moreover, a great conversation at Boot
pre I really appreciate you taking your time
with me today. Sure a good about your
journey
across your time at the Usps, as well
as the the recent journey under your leadership
as chief information Officer has been a great
conversation.
It was great to be here, and thanks
for inviting me to speak.