You are listening to an on the move
media c production.
Inside tracker published a paper on the dataset
in 2018,
and that looked at
thousand users that had, like, at least 2
longitudinal blood for us, and it only looked
blood. And so
This is essentially going to be the hu
paper to that, and now we're looking at
20000 people that have least 2 blood draws.
And then within that cohort, some folks have
Dna data,
some folks have fitness tracker data, some info
them both. So
we were looking at really the combination of
blood fitness tracker and
Dna
information
And, you know, so for example,
with Dna and
and statins, for example, you we can look
and see that there are certain people who
haven't an elevated,
like, a higher genetic risk of having high
Ldl.
And
what we see is that for those folks,
it's actually harder for them to improve their
Ldl. So they're just like, bumping up against
a wall, and it's you know, those are
also folks that might have to go to
a stat earlier right? Or, you know, the...
Even if they get more steps, it's it's
not gonna take their L nail down because
they're just, you know, there's something in their
genetics that makes them feel resistant to this.
So
kind of looking at that integration between, like,
genetics fitness tracker nina and
blood is really
cool.
That was Renee D.
This is Mar Sal. Thanks for tuning into
my podcast, Mar on the move. Each week,
I will be inviting interesting, innovative,
movers and shaker to join me on the
show and share their story. You will discover
and hear from thought leaders, experts, influencers, and
entrepreneurs
from the world's of wellness sports beauty fitness,
fashion and more. Morning on the move will
feature an ec mix of people I know,
work with and think are generally doing cool
things. On each episode, I sync up with
my guests about life, career and training and
showcase their expertise and story. Hello. Welcome and
welcome back to the Mar on the move
podcast.
I am your host, Mar Sal.
Today on the podcast, I'm syncing up with
inside trackers,
Renee D.
Sv of science and Ai.
We are talking all about her role at
inside tracker,
how and when she started working with the,
how inside tracker leverages the power of generative
Ai,
what's new and
exciting at the company.
We also do a deep dive into
Renee training and fitness,
talking about road versus track versus trail running,
Ash Yoga,
v 2 max and lac threshold tests.
If you are a data geek, you're gonna
love this. We get into the weeds.
But if you're not a data geek, you're
also gonna love it because we're talking about
health, and wellness and inside tracker from biomarkers
to fitness data and Dna.
Inside tracker is the ultra personalized
nutrition platform
that analyzes your blood, Dna, and lifestyle to
help you optimize your body from the inside
out. It transforms your body's data into meaningful
insights and a customized
action plan of the science back
nutrition recommendations,
you need to optimize your health. If you
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leave us a 5 star review on Apple
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Hope you have an awesome fourth of July
and holiday weekend if you're listening to this
night or over the weekend now onto my
conversation with Renee.
Talk to me a little bit about your
role at inside tracker and how long you've
been there and what you do, etcetera.
Thank you. It is an absolute pleasure and
an honor to be here. So I'm Yeah.
Happy to. So I've been an inside tracker
for
a couple of years now, but I have
known inside tracker since its inception.
Think close to 14 years ago. So the
the
founder and chief scientific officer Gil Bland, and
I actually worked together at my first job
out of graduate school.
At this company where we did a lot
of personalized medicine systems biology analysis for pharma
and biotech, but
really at the heart of all of this
analysis that we would do, for these companies
was this knowledge based,
and
logic
kind of reasoning
engine
that was built by a number of individuals
there, but a particular 1 that I would
love to mention is this person dexter or
pratt. Really kinda taught me everything I know
about building these these types of systems and
what they're really good at is
taking a whole bunch of data, which we're
drowning the data. Right?
And
systematically
using
knowledge that we have about
science in in the case of inside tracker,
our knowledge we have about
lifestyle interventions like,
you know, changes in your diet or an
exercise program or meditation or something like that?
What is the influence? How do you... How
do you match all of that information that
you get from all these clinical studies with,
you know, a lot of blood and fitness
tracker and Dna data that kind of creates
a biological picture of your yourself. So my
role it inside tracker
is
definitely really on the science side science and
Ai, and
we care a lot about this particular engine
that we
use to kinda connect
in individual's blood, fitness tracker Dna results to
known clinical studies to create evidence backed recommendations.
And, you know, also working together really closely
with the, you know, marketing teams and
business development and and trying to use and
harness our own data asset in a way
that is, you know, kinda useful for science
and,
useful for the company and,
hopefully, it's helpful to people overall. So you're
basically the woman behind the engine. I am
I'm am a woman behind the engine. I
all put it that way. You are 1
of the women behind you engine that looks
at all the data from all the users
of inside tracker,
and then
looks at that versus, like, all the clinical
studies and trials and kind of matches it
all altogether. And I would say that, like,
kind of a mix of, like, classic science
and data and also generative Ai. So, yeah.
No. That's absolutely correct. And the type... This
particular
engine, like I said, if 1 1 of
many women,
1 that I'll mention is this woman, Michelle
Ka, who
heads up our science team and she,
She's a nutrition, and
she and her team, really, they source and
aren't constantly looking for new peer reviewed you
know, publications about clinical studies
that might look at different interventions like, our
cold plunge is actually good for you and
when should you do that? Great. I remember
when they they were, like, Ash uganda has
been around for centuries.
And
there. But there was no... Like, there was
finally a scientific,
like, clinical study that came out around the
use case of Ash uganda, an inside tracker
was 1 of the first
companies I saw talking about that, because it
was science backed. Yeah. It was a while
ago, but, yeah.
Yeah. And I I
you know, I didn't build this engine. Right?
I just, like, kate rolled on the scene
2 years ago. So a lot of the,
you know, hard set work was done before
I got there.
But I have to say that,
and my background is is in
molecular biology and engineering. So I'm not a
nutrition.
I'm not an exercise anesthesiologist epidemiologist, although I
would love to be 1.
And
I...
So I myself. Right? Like, if I go
on Instagram, and I'm just scrolling through.
It's really hard. Like, I find it very
confusing because
every influencer has, like, kind of a different
idea, Like, what is their hot take? What
is their angle on particular nutrient or a
supplement or something like that. And
what I very much like about these types
of... We call them expert Ai
systems.
What I like about them is that they
hold more information than any 1 human ever
could. Right?
So in our knowledge base now, we have
hand curated over 7000 clinical studies.
So there is no way that I can
remember the results of 7000 clinical studies,
and then apply those results to even my
own data that I know really, really well.
So
in that sense, you know, this is where
I think
this is a very white box Ai,
and it's where
this type of Ai
doesn't get as much press as, like,
chat.
L
or machine learning,
but it's been around for decades. Yeah a
hundred... It's the og GAI.
Yeah. That's why... Yeah. Definitely 1 of the
Og. I'm trying to bring it back. I'm
trying to be, like, this is the new
black ice. Well, interesting because it wasn't part
of the brand language.
Right? It was not really over the years
with inside tracker that I'm aware of. You
know, it was like, it was just
it just was what it was. Because... I
mean, essentially,
right? Like, inside tracker
does more than, like, your general
doctor results. Like, if you see your vitamin
D level is low. It's not because they're
comparing you to the entire
national
grid. Right? Like, they're comparing you or, you
know, to people in America. They're comparing you
to other athletes specifically
in your age range. And it's not a
general
sort of,
I don't know what Trying to say. It's
not a general.
It's more of
and finally be able to have, like, that
have kind of information. And enough data to
be able to do some, you know, some
of our own kind of scientific discovery on
this dataset and actually,
we are wrapping up
literally today or tomorrow a paper for
submission. So
once we submit though, I'd actually be happy
happy to talk about. There's a lot of
fun and interesting
results that have... We've been able to pop
pop up from
interrogating these data. And probably nothing, like, too
crazy surprising either, you know, but
are still are you submitting these papers to,
like, where do you to, like, research
Exactly. So we're looking at, like, different digital
health journals because it is essentially a digital
health platform,
and
as you know, like, you're
you are your triathlete, Like, you're very knowledgeable
about, you know, yourself and your performance and
testing all of these markers and all of
that and
you know, what is
amazing is that, like, folks like you are
definitely early adopters, like, very tip of the
spear ahead of the curve on things and,
you know, we think a lot about how
this... It's essentially
health. Right?
Some people wanna call bio hacking. Some people
wanna call it health span optimization, but, like,
essentially, what we are doing is preventive health.
We're saying, alright. Well,
Your H hvac level is kinda climbing towards
6 percent and 6 percent, for between in
the pre prediabetes category, and it's easier to
reverse that now. Right. Then when you got
6 and a half,
so you have a great opportunity here where
you can just
you know, do... Incorporate some horizontal zone 2
walks, and let's see what happens. You know,
we'll... Does your H hvac once you go
down or not? You know,
So it's a very good facilitator for kind
of, like, n of 1
studies, but also just
kind of pointing out
where are things going well where things not
going well, where do you need to focus
on is a time to talk to a
doctor? Right. You know, if you're... If you've
been trying a bunch of lifestyle?
Types of interventions, and they're not working. So
maybe... So for example, that that was the
case with me. So my cholesterol has been
high
ever since I was in my my twenties.
I mean, kinda borderline high, like, not enough
to concern
physician. But.
Of course, now, you know, there's
a lot more talk about how your lifetime
exposure to high cholesterol. It means a lot
more than just that 1 number. So
eventually, just from kind of tracking my Ldl
cholesterol levels over the course of years and
given my age,
you know, I did end up going on
a stat, which... My whole family's is on
statins, like, we're all on statins, but no
amount of diet and exercise was gonna get
me where I needed to go. But... Okay.
But I not been tracking my Ldl and
in Ap b levels, I wouldn't have been
able to figure that out, you know? And
you went on a stand, You had no
other choice.
Yes. Yeah. So, you know, tell
You'll you'll see folks who are, like,
you know, I... Because you're very athletic. I
mean... I somewhat athletic. I'm
I am not gore. I Shut No. Do
you don't understand? Like, I was like, oh.
You
job to post pictures of me running, but,
like,
I didn't run today. I went to the
physical therapist.
Like,
I'm.
Yeah.
And we can talk about my track
workouts to my my ham pulls and all
of that. Yeah. Good stuff that happens after,
you know, third 40. But but... Yeah. So
I I essentially
had tried kind of all of the lifestyle
interventions. Yeah. I tried cutting out, like, all
saturated fad. I've
tried, you know, obviously, I exercise so that's
good. I held sleep gosh, but whatever hurts...
It's not the asleep, but I ended up
seeing
highly recommend this if you live in the
Boston area, but at mass general, there's a
women's
preventive cardiology
unit at mass general hospital at all. And
so I went, and I saw 1 of
the cardiologist there. My Pcp, I love was,
like, you're asking me too any questions. I'm
just gonna send you
my doctor.
Like love this stuff. I'm like, okay.
And this woman, doctor was awesome, but she
was... You know, I was, like, alright. Look.
Should I just go
be super restrictive?
And she was... She just said if you
do that?
You'll probably lower your Ldl by another 20
points. But we really need you down another,
like, 50 or 60 points. And I was
like, put me on the stat and Yeah,
totally. And
I'll take a down thanks. I'm just like,
brick and even and then not get there.
And restrict was like,
I don't need a ton of me. Like
I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't need
a ton of me, but I get a
lot of protein from dairy, and I'm like,
ugh, I have to cut all of that
out. It's that's it's getting hard. Yeah. I
mean, it's a big... It's a big choice.
But, you know what's great like, and I
I feel like you know this because you
work there, but you get an option to
see what's going on. And then you can
make an educated decision because I love the
inside tracker also
send you different article lengths, like when you
get your blood biomarkers back also offers nutritional
advice and insight, and there are,
you know,
nutrition scientists that work at inside tracker that
are
there for you to... I know they don't
do 1 on 1 consulting, like, with... Or
do they now with people getting their blood
tests
We can hook you up with Okay. Let's...
They're not... Yeah.
For sure. Yeah. It's not... At this time,
it is not a canonical part of, yeah,
program where if you sign up. You get,
you automatically get a consult. But Ashley has
been on my podcast a few times, and
she's like, the cholesterol
vanishing queen. So
No. And actually, that was the 1 thing,
and I I still am, like, Let me...
I wonder if I could just wash off
the stat and just go Ashley. Just do
the Ashley protocol.
She's got a lot take tiktok followers 1
saying Didn't cry. You didn't try Ashley. I
didn't try the Ashley protocol a call. You've
been dialed into this scene well before you
came on board. So it talked to me
about like, what you were doing before and
why you came on board and when you
came on board.
Feeling and I met at that original company
that had that kind of
knowledge
representation reasoning,
expert Ai type of system
engine. That 1 wasn't an expert Ai, but
it, you know, there were some structural elements
at early similar to what we do here
at Inside tracker. But
after that job, I worked at 2 other
places
1 of them was this company called patients
like me, which is really interesting because patients
like me was essentially
forum, It still exists. It's a forum for
people who have a condition. So and it
started with Als.
So if you add, you could meet other
people with Als you know, other our family
members, you know, caring for people with Als
and for information. It was it was awesome.
So what was super interesting about patients like
me was that and we worked with what
we call patient generated health data. So people,
you know, patients themselves were providing information about
what symptoms they had, what drugs they were
taking, like, side effects all that kind of
stuff. And
it really gave me a healthy
respect for patient centric.
And caring about the patient voice.
So there was this cool example. I know
where
They were working with a pharma company who
had a lupus drug and, you know, lupus
sucks.
Yeah.
So it's a challenging condition to have, and
I I can't remember which way this went,
But
the original
endpoint of the study was going to be
about pain,
like improvements in pain, but they actually interviewed
lupus patients and lupus patients were, like, well,
actually, we care a lot more about brain
fog
than pain. So they ended up changing the
clinical study, but you would be either surprised
or not surprised by how
little patients actually have a voice in the
way that clinical trials are, like, developed and
design and stuff like that. So, you know...
That's super helpful.
That's really a cool company. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
No. That... That element of it was really
beautiful.
And then I worked with another company called
precision for Medicine, which is essentially doing
you know, consulting services and managing. The the
role I had there was
also working again with Pharma and biotech and
kind of, like, helping to analyze large data
that. So
you know, all in all, it was more
in the
kind of
precision medicine
place.
Rather than wellness
and preventive health with lifestyle intervention. So, you
know, instead of
changing your diet or, you know, having a
particular exercise routine, the interventions were drunk. Right.
But it's really the same principles that we're
just able to apply, but with different... You
know, now the drug is exercised or the
drug is food or the drug is.
Sleep and meditation and recovery. And...
I think that it's it's become, like, health
and wellness. It's and medicine have become more
well rounded it. And so I think, you
know, presenting people with all their options is
always a good thing, then they can decide,
which direction they wanna go, but I think
like you said, like, you're taking a stat.
Like, sometimes you have to do those things.
Right? I mean, there's only so much you
can do.
Through food and medicine, like,
sometimes you have to take an antibiotics. Sometimes
you need to do certain things that are
not gonna be, like, your natural go to,
but I think just having the information, getting
ahead of it and being able to, like,
you said, like, stop it early or change
it earlier is like, a game changer.
Totally. And I... Like, I'm very pro. Right?
Like, if you need to take drugs, like
you should take the drugs there. Great. Really
helpful.
Yeah. No. I think it's great. And... But
I think also, like, for me through inside
tracker. Like, I've just learned
so much about, like, my biomarkers and my
health,
and
just like, even through some of the articles
and through, like, just learning about the clinical
studies and going on pub med and really
getting ahead of stuff from
just an everyday athlete perspective has been...
I mean, incredibly empowering
the education behind it.
And I think it's interesting that,
you know, with your Ai
machine with the data analytics that you guys
are doing that you're able to really,
like,
pigeon... Like, not like, to to streamline the
results so that you're not looking at it...
I'm not compared to someone who's, like, 52
living somewhere else that doesn't exercise. Right? Like,
I'm compared to people that are like me.
And I think
you've seem to have really expanded your audience
beyond just athletic, like, triathletes athletes and runners,
but now it's more longevity,
and general health seekers? Which I think is
really interesting. So how do you do that
with the data? Like, how did you kind
of build the next tier of data as
you're growing the company. Yeah. That's a great
question. And,
you know, our data is really from
from all come. Right? The the the data
that we're looking at is is
in a completely blinded
way because we don't actually care about anybody's.
Personal information, but just, you know, we might
do a blinded analysis of all of, you
know, all of the inside tracker consumers, blood
values and say,
look at which biomarkers
tend to be correlated with age or, you
know, an interesting thing we looked at.
Was, for example,
we saw that people that were able to
improve their Ldl values
compared to didn't.
They
you know, after joining on tracker, they
took more steps over the course of, you
know, in between their blood draws, like, the
ones that improved actually took more steps. That's
not, like, a prospective clinical trial. We can't
say that taking that those transaction caused the
decrease in Ldl, but, like, it was a
very interesting
an interesting retrospective association. And so we do
have... You, sometimes we'll do an analysis then
We'll do exactly that. Right? Like, we might
compare...
And this is a paper that was published
by Anti tracker last year.
Looking at runners. Right? So we were able
to compare people
who... And this is all from self reported
data, who reported themselves as sedentary,
you know, versus
modern... You know, moderately active running, and then
who they would be considered kind of elite
or pro runners, And volume amateur. So there
are 4 different categories that really allowed us
to compare,
you know, across those
across those different categories. So now there's really
enough data in the
database to be able to do
analyses like that, and I'll tell you, for
example, I never updated my profile data.
So I was actually considered to be 1
of the sedentary people. And I'm not setting.
Right. Right? But when you have enough people
in the cohort,
mistakes like these kind of... You were using
inside tracker or way before you start working
there. Well, I started
And I got, like, my first instance I
tracker her blood test. And then around the
same time, I actually... Gonna, like, plug garmin
right now for no reason, but,
I don't I know. I plug them all
the time. They should pay me too.
I have to say, like, I bought this
watch. My brother and I bought it at
think, like, the Phoenix 6, we bought it
during, you know, whatever Black Friday, and
I just wanted to get good feedback from
the stupid watch. So I was like, whoa,
I guess he should start running again, and
there's are so many runners at inside trackers.
So It was actually pretty see. Yeah. The
joke is, like, I hate running. I'm, like,
I hate running, but I'm just gonna do
it. Now it's, like, 2 years later, and
I
still kinda hate road running, but I like
running. Now I can't stop running. Yeah. So
you like... So where do you like running
that you said you
my heart belongs of the trail. Really? I
am... I just like to... I like to
be in the woods and I'm walking the
dog. I are walking
slash running from the dog.
I'm in the woods,
it's quieter. There's trees, you know. So so
you do a lot of trail running? Is
that your thing or trail walking, trail needs
Yeah. I try to be on the trail
as much as
as much as possible. But I... It's hard
to get onto the trail I live in
Cambridge, so it's hard for me to get
to a trail
on a weekday, so most weekdays are done.
So where do you usually run? Oh, so
I run...
If I'm in the Boston area, I always
run in the fe because it's the closest
to me the middle sex bells in Med,
and I love it there. I just absolutely
love it there.
It... My dad lives on Cape cod and
if I'm there, there's the for,
recreation area. I don't know. There's a lot
of mountain biker there. In on the cape?
Yeah. And this particular,
in this particular, like area where I'll where
I'll trail run. But, like, my dream is
to be able to walk out to my
backyard and run on a trail there. Like,
I'm living in the wrong environment for me.
I I feel the same way living in
New York City, Like, even though I don't
really like trail running. I do wish I
could go outside and just be on my
bike or go for run and not have,
like, a million people
outside like, in the way on their way
to do stuff, like, you know, and have
to try stop at traffic lights and go
through potholes. But?
Yeah. You know, like, during the pandemic, I
was like, maybe we can move. And my
partner is was like, no.
No. I've worked hard my whole life to
live in new york city. Like oh my
god. And just
upstate. So, like, I get it. I grew
up here. At the same time, it's like,
oh, do you wanna meet for a cocktail
at a great restaurant? Okay. You in and
hour Right? Like, and I'm gonna walk there?
And it's you. There's there's there's, like, pros
and cons to living in air in a
city. What are sports you do? Look. Hi,
Ski. Life ski is my favorite great thing
in the world. That's... I would I would
give up running for skiing in a heartbeat
beat if I had to pick 1, not
even a question.
It pick skiing your time. What were you
doing before you were running? Because you said
you didn't love running and you kinda just
started, like, 2 years ago? I mean, I
feel like you have a lot of fancy,
you know, very accomplished athletes
on your podcast and I... I'm just, like,
I'm like, you're...
If you have a listener who who's, like,
just an average person.
That's what I A lot of my listeners
are just average people. Trust me. It's like,
I am in... I am a solid, like,
I I could work and maybe get to
middle of the pack, you know,
a little bit, like... But
I'm never... I am I'm probably... I might
win something when I'm 90 if I can,
like, last that long.
But Yeah. Like not not now. But I...
I mean, I grew up doing crew and
flying soccer.
But then, honestly, like, there was a pull
period in my thirties where I just didn't
really do much of all of anything. Like,
I ran occasionally
or, you know, I ski whatever I whenever
I could, because that is actually my... That's
my real love. But, like,
I really go come from
a major
sports background,
you know, outside of, like, high school and
college
stuff. I think a lot of my guests
over the years like, different Like I've had
a lot of fashion guests and also, like,
doctors and scientists that,
you know, they may run here and there
or do yoga,
they're not always athletes or they don't at
least identify as athletes. I would say, like,
if you run your runner, but some people
don't identify as that. So
I am happy to identify as an athlete
because I am the slowest, like, middle of
the pack person, and but I just like
my whole lifestyle is like that. So I
feel I look at it like, as a
lifestyle. Right? So it's not just, like, being
fast. It's like,
I'd look at my health. I look at
wellness. I
base my day around, you know, some kind
of exercise or, you know, my travel around
getting good food, but I also, you know,
I go off the other end too.
Honestly, I think I literally... Anybody who moves
as an athlete. Right Like, if you're...
And actually, I did do
I practiced a lot of my s yoga
for a long time, and,
right actually, in my thirties, like, that's what
I was doing. I doing on Cha yoga
beds. I practiced Ash.
You did. Oh my god. I still do.
I love it. I still do too. I
practiced. I started when I was, like, in
my twenties in New York, and I started
with Eddy Stern.
Oh, of course.
He was definitely no.
Went there forever,
and then he moved to Brooklyn and I
don't really... I don't... I didn't go to
brooklyn, and he's back in the city, but
I haven't gone.
Practice. I love ash stronger. That's like, that
keeps me together. It's really hard. Right? Like,
is... That's athletic. It's not, like a roll
on the floor
relax yoga? No. No. In as far. Where
do you practice it, where you live?
So
I started doing it when I was living
in Berkeley, so I went to...
I think, Ash Yoga Berkeley. It was called
my teacher there was Fancy over.
And then when I moved to Boston, I
practice with George White sides for
a long time. And now I just... I
don't.
And I have been actually thinking about trying
to
pull something in a little bit more regularly,
whether... You know, I can still practice on
my own. I feel like I have enough,
you know, of a of a background that
I feel safe practicing on my own and
I love...
I...
Like, I am trying to, like, actually have
a very regular
sitting meditation practice, but Ash is so much
easier. Right? Because moving meditation, and that's for
us, like, sc people. Yeah. I can't. I
don't meditate. Yeah. It's hard. It's too hard
for me.
For me to sit. But you don't have
this it. Right? You can walk. You can
do our stronger guy, like, whatever. You can
you don't... You know, but
I am trying
to do the sitting because it is hard
for me, but,
yeah, Like, I don't know. Ash is just
a very good mind body
connection. Yeah. And you can just do it
your own series at home. Like, it's a
it's like the alphabet. Right? So you just
I mean, that's what I was doing. There
was a great during the pandemic. There was
a great teacher that I practice with who
she just rallied. Like, nobody was teaching classes
online in early days, and she just like,
I don't know how she did it. I
don't know what because it's... She's such a
yogi.
Erica H during the pandemic, but she just
started doing, like, zoom classes.
And it was great because even though I
know my own practice, it was great to
have someone like, talking and leading the practice
and, like, you know, there's little things you
do where someone can correct you.
So I don't know. Online was now... I'm
thinking about going back, although I keep I'm
gonna go back to Eddie,
but that requires me to physically, like, get
to, like, the Yoga studio at 7AM.
Which I've totally spoiled now that we all
are, like, kinda working from home and it's
like...
Although I would love to go study with
that know. If I if I looked in
into new I would just be like you
anyone's got. For fine onboarding. Please do. I
know. He... I mean, it's so easy. Right?
Like, it's so. I could, like, walk there.
Now you've got me thinking. I might have
to go back.
Ash is pretty pretty intense. Like, do you
feel like there's a lot that you've learned
over the years from your practice that you
have brought into, like, your day to day
work and, like, all that you do in
life?
Definitely. Like,
Honestly, I
I love skiing for very different reasons, but
Tonga,
and I should say, like, I tried a
couple different kinds of yoga and what I
love about Ash
and
you know, for people that don't know.
Our strongest practice my style, which means you
show up,
to class,
everybody has, like, a set sequence poses that
they're going to do. Nobody talks. Right? Like,
there's no instruction. Nobody's, and I love that.
Like, I
I don't wanna talk to anybody at 07:00
in the morning. Right? I just wanna pro,
and I wanna do my practice
quietly,
and I don't wanna be lecture by, like,
don't know. Somebody's, like, 23 and talk about
their relationship problems for, like, the first 15
minutes of class, which is what, like, every
yoga class I went to when living in
San Francisco was like Oh, yeah. Like I
just can't. I can't, like I can't. I'm
here to not talk. I'm not here to
talk. Yeah. And then, you know, you focus
on your breathing the entire time. So it's,
like, a breathing moving
meditation. So I learned...
I... That was That was my first real
experience with meditation. But what is amazing
about Ash is because you go and you
do the same sequence.
I mean, you know this. Right? Yeah. You
as you go and do the same sequence
every day.
It is like this...
And by the way, I hate team. Like,
I... This is... It's the opposite of what
I would ever see myself doing,
but it's the most incredible measuring stick. Right?
Because I'm like, oh, today, I'm really focused.
Today, my breathing is off.
Today, you know, I am able to get
into this pose, like, I never have before.
What is going on. And then tomorrow, everything
falls apart, but like,
it is just
because you're doing the same thing over and
over again,
the other thing that I realized to is
like,
I don't know. I feel like this is
very, like, first child's
probably, you know, socialize as a female problem
where
you don't wanna do anything unless you're really
good at it. And so you're afraid to
sort of mediocre at any, which also
why I hated running, really mediocre. But
But what's crazy is I'm like, oh, if
I actually just put work into something, I
get better at it.
Go figure. Yeah. Well, like I had to
be, like, in my twenties and doing this
practice for years to, like, sort... Just sort
of figure that out. Do you have, like,
your Aha moment.
Wow. I was like, oh, look, I practiced,
and then I got better.
03:60 view. Like, you also, like, analyze data.
A little bit like Stronger. In my opinion
because you're, like, doing the same thing over
and, like, thinking about all the things that
could possibly be different than the traditional
sort of things you're looking at that should
always be the same.
You have, like, baseline,
you have measurements on your practice that you're
taking every single day. And that was, like,
that is Insight tracker, by way. And that
is 1 thing that I... Like, part of
why I wanted to join in Insight tracker
was I just wanted to do experiments on
myself. And it's really easy to do experiments
on yourself.
We work against the tracker or just, like,
in life in general, but But that's what
Ash s is. It's 1 big long
experiment on yourself, and you think a whole
lot of things out. Right? Like,
So, yeah. What did you learn from your
your os practice?
I just think, like, you really have to
breathe through hardship. That's for running to. Use
your breath
because it will help you. Just inhale, exhale.
Sometimes I say it out loud. If I'm
not listening to myself, but I do that
a lot.
But it...
A great folk, like, way to focus. Right?
It's...
I don't know. III
actually should ask you this. You're you're a
the season track athlete. So when you're running
around that track and you're
absolutely miserable,
because I feel like I started running these
track workouts. I'm like, they're so fun and
then, like, a month and a half into
it and I'm like, oh, I feel terrible.
Like, I'm just at the point at all
times. That's the point of it.
Right.
That's a how. How do you like, mentally
handle that when you're at that point? So
for me, I I love the track because,
again, I like to look at, like, numbers.
And so Mh. When you're out on a
run, Like, my my
quarter mile time, like, my 400 time, like,
running on the West side highway is so
different than it is running on the track.
So I like the mono not mono
or mono Yeah of being
able to, like, just focus on, like, the
numbers. So it's the same thing with Ash.
Right? Like, you're going,
You're doing the same thing every time,
and things will happen differently every time, But
it's the same exact thing. Like, there's no
changes.
Like, outside of maybe if you're on a
track the weather. But I like I like
measuring that kind of stuff. So I just
started getting back on the track though recently.
I mean, I haven't been doing a lot
of track work. I've been really just doing
road running.
And, like, just logging miles for half marathons.
But I do wanna get faster, and I
think get that being on the track is
is really
the best way besides strength training to get
faster?
Yeah. A hundred percent. But, I mean, what
do you like about it? What don't you
like about it?
I mean, I I like it for the
same reason. So my
current
coaches, like, who's rang running prescriptions for me
is this 1 Roma Van Malt. She's amazing.
She actually started a super cool company
that looks at women's health. It's a great,
like, digital
app in the women's health space, And she,
hat... She was a national, like, modern task
lead and has done a lot of very
fast running. And so
she was the 1 who...
I was talking to her, and I was
like, you know,
all the races, I... It's like,
I like long races. Like, I'm comfortable in,
like, a long, slow
type of environment. Right? So
whether it is
kind of in the, like, half marathon or
longer. Right? And...
But I just kinda knew. I knew the
same thing. I was, like, I there was
actually... The the first rate that I did
was a 50 k, and I was pretty
slow. Right?
It was great. It was a great...
Race, but they had 2 options. There was
the 50 k or the 50 mile. And
I knew from my 50 k time that
I actually would have been disqualified from the
50 mile event. So it wasn't even like,
oh, Let me try that next because I
would had to gotten faster. So I was
like, I should probably just should probably work
on Speed work. So Roman and I talked
about it, and she was like, yeah, let's
get you on the track. So,
we did. And I And, yeah. No. It's...
It is super fun and it's fast. Right?
Like, you are faster on the track,
than outside or at least I... Tend to
be those nice spring.
It's good to run on the track with
other people or at least, like, have some
accountability while you're there.
Yeah.
This is miserable.
It's handy. Yeah. I'm afterwards. You're like, I'm
amazing, but
I feel like that. Has been... Yeah. I
mean, it's hard. It's hard to, like,
get there, and I don't know. I always
try to... I always overthink it. Is there
anything, like any new biomarkers that you guys
are looking at or, you know, data and
you're analyzing
business that use your in your like,
expertise that you are... I tracker come up
pipeline or in the future. That
in 2018,
the and that looked at,
thousand users that had, like, at least 2
longitudinal to blood draws and it only looked
at blood. And so...
This is essentially going to be the update
paper to that, and now we're looking at
20000 people that have at least 2 blood
draws.
And then within that cohort, some folks have
Dna data,
some folks have fitness tracker data, some folks
have both. So...
We were looking at really the combination of
blood fitness tracker and
in Dna
information,
and, you know, so for example,
with Dna and
and statins for example example, You we can
look and see that there are certain people
who have an elevated,
like, a higher genetic risk of having high
Ldl. Example and
what we see is that for those folks,
it's actually harder for them to improve their
Ldl.
So they're just, like, bumping up against a
wall, and it's you know, those are also
folks that might have to go to a
stat and earlier, Right? Or, you know, the...
Even if they get more... Steps. It's it's
not gonna take their Ldl down because they're
just, you know, there's something in their genetics
that makes them sort of resistant to this.
So
kind of looking at that integration between, like,
genetics, fitness tracker data and,
blood is really,
cool.
I would say that the other big thing
that
I am frankly really excited about is
you, inside tracker does an incredible
job
of providing a lot of
information in education to folks.
And
there are some people like you that are,
like, going to var
kinda, like, read,
if you want all of that information.
And then there are other people who are,
like, y. This is a lot. Like, I
just just give me 1 thing to work
on.
I really wanna do this. Like I really
wanna get healthier. I I wanna be, like,
running with my grandkids when 9 years old,
but,
you know,
I don't I don't wanna wave through all
of this stuff. So we're trying to think
about different ways to, like,
essentially provide more engagement tools for folks in
between the different blood draws? So how do
we have leverage fitness tracker our data?
To
give you a clue about whether you're on
track or not
in between these blood. So
we're going to launch something that we're calling
the Health band habit score.
Somebody else might think of a better name
for this. But essentially what it'll do is
it'll be a weekly report summarizes,
your fitness tracker data over the last 6
weeks. It looks at it kind of a
way similar to training peaks would look at
Ct. Right? Like, I I love training peaks.
It'll... It'll essentially, you'll get a weekly score
and then they'll summarize,
on, like, all of these different areas
that not blood right now. So really just
like fitness tracker data and
if you are a person that, like, logs
into the app and provides information about how
crest you are or
whether you've actually done your recommendations or not.
It'll take all that data. But, basically say,
here's what went really well last week. Here's,
you know, that went less well last week.
And, you know, here are some things for
you to work on. So my my last
kind of report that we had.
My steps were great.
But my
bedtime was trash because it was like...
10:31AM,
like, night. And you'll be able to... Like
for people who are diligent about, like, putting
in all their data and information, you'll be
able to kind of, like, look at that
and give them a report. Yes. But you
don't you don't have to...
You... If you have a fitness tracker connected,
you should be able to get a report.
What I actually really like about it is
that
this is actually funny. So on Garmin, you
know, you get the v 2 Max. Estimate,
but it doesn't give you a decimal point.
But I can see on this that they
actually calculate the decimal point, and I wanna
know that
information So what is this V 2 max
on our garmin Where that from? I love
this question, and I love talking about this.
So I'm glad. I'm glad we had talk
about it. So
the the... What you get on the
garmin
or apple or
Aura is now doing it. And
or fitbit,
is you do get AV2 max estimate
And
what they're basically...
They have some model that they're using. And
none of these places have publish their models.
So like, I can't actually tell you is
going on. There is a white paper for
apples. Where basically, they're looking at
probably
your heart rate while you exercise. If you're
running outdoors, how, like, what's your pace and
for how long and, you know, how that
running essentially, or biking because I think Garmin
only does it for, like, outdoor runs
and
trail... Yeah, outdoor runs and cycling, I but,
like, you won't get it from a treadmill.
But anyway,
so they're making... And I think Aura is,
they're just... They just
launched a 6 minute walk test. So they're
probably looking at heart rate and how fast
you lock in 6 minutes.
And from that,
they're trying to correlate that information with...
I don't know. Hopefully, we they have a
dataset set of, like, actual real V 2
Max values that were measured in the which
is the only way that you can of
the... Your your true V max can only
be measured
in the lab. Have And this is what
I would say is if you care
a lot about knowing what that number is.
Just go to the lab and do it.
It does cost money. It's not cheap. It's
gonna be somewhere between 75 and a hundred
and 25 dollars probably in the United States.
But you just have to go, it takes
15 minutes, then you're done, And then you
have your number, and that number is real.
So what I can tell you is I've
done this, I actually have another 1 schedule
for july second. But I'm curious if you
need work on, like, is gonna... Has helped
or not.
But by
I've done it in the lab, and I've
had estimates
from
garment and apple.
And my lab value...
My garmin estimate was maybe 2 units now
My lab value.
So it was really close.
My Apple estimate was, like, 17 units lower
than
like actual. So whatever model Apple is using
for me personally is Yeah. Dead wrong. Like,
it is
wildly,
wildly off. So I always tell people who
are like, why is my a new 2
max system it's so bad, And I'm like,
it's it's it's probably not. You should sort
of lab and I'm a checked.
I think it, like, I think when when
I did... Whenever I do those tests, I
I love it and I hate it because
it's really, like, when I did my Lac
tape threshold test, I was so depressed after
because
it was so low for my zone 2.
Like, I don't know. The it was not
good for me, like, it psychologically, like, I
thought I was much better.
And it kinda took me down and
I it was way before I started inside
tracker. Like I had a coach for Triathlon
that had me do, like, all these tests.
I didn't do the Bo Max test, but
I did the Lac hate threshold test on
the bike. And I mean, it was hard.
You know, now you can just do with
A test like that on zwift and you
don't need to test your blood, but I
was looking at my blood. And,
like, it was it was definitely
like, a lot lower than I wanted it
to be, and I haven't done it again.
But I would love to do it again
because I'm so into, like, the numbers. And
if you can improve,
then I wanna see the improvement over time
over, like, what's doing it. So I like
that you do that, and you're going back
on July second to get another test to
see if it improved from your track workouts
I'm a little nervous about it as well,
but I I actually bought a lac tape
meter, and I haven't done the lac tape.
Testing.
I spent a lot of money on this.
Like, those strips are super expensive too. But
every once a while, I'll get... On a
treadmill, and I'll I'll do it, and it's
but it also
it's really hard to do.
And
I have to say that
the...
When you go and you get AV2 Max
test, they'll also, like, re zone you. Like,
they'll give
rates. Times. But to your point, like, the
only way you're really going to know
where
that threshold is is by doing the black
cake testing.
I think that there are some
continuous, like, you you have a kind of
a continuous Glucose monitor.
Or maybe you know about this. Like, I
feel like companies are working on a continuous
lac monitor And I'm like, that is what
I want. That I want. Well, it would
have to check your blood though. So I
don't know how it would work, but I
am so on board with that, Do you
do it yourself? You doing the lac tape
testing yourself on your finger?
Yeah. And it's it's like, it's hard. It's
hard to do, and a lot of times,
like, your...
Because you're not supposed to, like, squeeze your
finger for the blood lac tape 1, and
it's it's
it isn't definitely a rig role, and then
I have, like, practice for a little while
to make sure that I do it, and,
you know, you're literally, like, running, and then
you have to stop and then do this.
So that's affecting
your results and I don't know. It's very
finicky. So A continuous
continuous 1 be good. Do you, like, since
we're, like, talking about data and analytics. And
all those fun things. Like, do you think
the Garmin has, like, accurate zones for your
heart rate and for your base? Because... I
mean, there's, like a general formula. But then
when you start training and running it kinda
shifts based on
you. But do you think it's... Yeah. Yeah.
That
that is a great question. And I
I know on garmin,
it is very... And I don't know if
this is my true lac tape thresholds.
But I know that that estimate keeps changing,
depending on, like, how much work I'm doing
frankly.
For the actual zones,
I don't know, and I need to check
my settings because I don't know if my
zones are
particularly dynamic. But what I can tell you
is that the garmin zones
for me
were fairly
accurately matched with the zones that I got
when I did my Left V 2 Max
test test.
So
so those zone twos actually
matched up. And I think I might have
don't remember if it was garmin, but I
think it might be Garmin where you get
to pick which
method in training piece. Right?
Yeah. I don't know about... I don't think
it's... I think training peaks you can go
into the back end, and then you can
pick, like, whether you're doing 5 zones, 7
zones.
I don't know. But I I have to...
I always have to update it, You know,
like, I feel like sometimes...
I don't know. I just feel like sometimes
the data on the back ends wonky. Like,
I forget about it. Like, I'll put in,
and I do all the training, and then
I'm, like, I am still stuck in the
mindset that my heart rate, my zone 2
running heart rate is like, 40, but it
might be higher and now that I'm older,
but I did it when I was younger.
And I'm hanging on to it. So but
Garmin would tell me I think Garmin would
be like, you are not like, you're are
in zone 4?
I would be so upset. That's what happened
with the Lac test? I think I thought
I was, like, morph fit, and I bought
it. Then did you do... Did you, like,
do a bunch of zone 2 kinda training
after that and try
like, did it work out. I I got
I was a new athlete, Like, the beginner
athletes like hate zone 2.
And Yeah. And I my coach was, like,
we're gonna be spending a lot of time
in zone 2, and I'm like, yeah. I'm
not gonna be working with you. He was
right. Of course. But, yeah. No. I think
it's hard. I think it's, like, I don't
know. So... And then... So that's the kind
of stuff that you're doing though, looking at
the back end of, like, the data inside
tracker? And kind of...
Do you think inside tracker,
would they ever add
that kind of testing into the back end,
like, I don't know how they would do
it, but,
like, from a
to, like, compare, like, your lac threshold or
your V 2 Max to, like, your heart
rate, like, your biomarkers
or your heart rate variability,
like,
that coming?
We do look at V Max and the
connection between V Max and biomarkers and V
to Max actually is
wonderful
in that
if you had to pick 1 biomarker to
focus on,
improving,
just pick the T Max. Pick your V
max estimate because,
first of all,
it is correlated
in the right direction with, like, nearly
nearly every biomarker that we measure in blood.
So it's a, you know, a
it can somewhat predict what your blood biomarker
value is Are oh interesting. It's not the
only thing.
Yeah. Like, it's connected it associated
where
many, many of the like key markers in
there. Like
glucose. They want see insulin, ldl DLBH
hdl,
how much sleep you get? Like,
every... You're just... Yeah. You name it? Probably
related with V 2. So the higher your
V 2 max is the better.
And if it's low, then you might wanna
be looking at your blood to see what's
going on
there
as well.
Yeah. If it's low. I mean, the good
thing and and you know this. The good
thing the good thing about a low V
2 Max is that, like, you can... Yeah.
Get it Yeah. There's always room for moment.
Just, like,
there's always
always room for improvement bit. So... And you
can get it, like, you can... There are
definitely some newbie gains there. Right?
Like, if you're if you're sedentary, and then
all of a sudden, like, you
safely be an roanoke running program. Like, your
V 2 Max is definitely gonna jump.
And that's where it doesn't matter. So, like,
even though I'm mad at my app,
V02 Max.
If Apple was the only...
If Apple was the only
my my god device that I had was
using. Like, the whole point isn't
the number itself. Like, the whole point is
actually is the number getting higher. Over time.
Like, that's it. That's all that actually
really and truly matters unless
you are, like, in a lead athlete and
or you're really kind of performance driven.
But if you're just doing it for health,
Like, just just try and get that number
higher or whatever it Yeah. I think so.
I mean, I think I... I'm, like, speaking
of numbers. I have to do my inside
tracker test and I've been, like, a afraid
because I've been eating so poorly
and have not. I used to eat oatmeal
every day,
every day.
I would eat, like for years, and I
had great cholesterol.
And I have not. I just got too
sick of it, I just stopped eating it.
And now I'm afraid to take my test.
Because if my cholesterol is up,
mean, nothing interesting experiment though I I did.
I literally
was eating oatmeal probably every day. For, like,
10 years because I was had gluten issues.
And and by the way, like, those things
kind, a lot of those things for me.
After not eating them went away.
I mean, I don't have Celiac, but
some of them are still here, but in,
I can eat things in moderation now, but
but, yeah, I was eating oatmeal like, every
single day for years. And,
like, still cut oatmeal, and I just kinda
got, like, so over it.
During the yeah. And all... It started up
upsetting my stomach before runs. And so I
just
And now I haven't done my blood in,
like, I don't know, like, 4 months, and
I'm so nervous because it's... I... Yeah. Yeah.
I'm gonna do it. I have to, like,
But now I've been, like, binging oatmeal. I
started eating Oatmeal again. Just like, I'm preparing
for the inside tracker test. I like, started
taking Vitamin D again. I'm like, trying to,
like, you know, get everything back up to
a positive level.
Totally. It's like, when you start floss because
the dentist appointment it's you're? Yeah. I've totally
been doing this every single day twice a
day the whole time. Yep. Definitely. So do
you do you check your blood like every
3 months?
I have an appointment on Saturday because I
too am late.
But I try I try to do it
every
every 3 months or so. And
there's always like something. It's like, whack mole.
Like, I alright. I solve that problem, but
something else is... I think, like, last time
my cortisol is all high.
Normally, my cortisol is not high. And
I think I know why might have been
navy, but I'm actually really curious to see
what happened specifically with that marker because plus
it's not normally up. Although it is high
in many women, not
not.
So, sometimes it's like retest specific biomarker?
Like, can you do that on your own
not through inside tracker. Do you... Or can
you just do it? You personally through an
inside tracker? Or I mean, I have...
I did
retest,
like, a couple
a handful
of
biomarkers
because
I don't have a thyroid. And so I
have to take le,
and I had forgotten to take it for,
like, 2 weeks
So I took a Ts h test, and
it was out of control,
and and actually,
interestingly,
my lipid values also went up.
So when you're hypo thyroid,
you have a higher chance of, actually also
having
Less strong because they're... Yeah. It's... So it's
really it's really interesting. Like, if somebody's cholesterol,
just all of a sudden kinda gets higher
than normal, like I would go do a
that to see because that could could possibly
be
part of the issue. But, yeah, Like, I
literally forgot to take my thyroid for a
couple of months, I had tested was like,
oh, whoa, and then I retest that
particular marker. I take a couple weeks later.
And everything...
Everything went back down because I retest that
and the lipids because I... That was also
something that I saw was I also saw
the spike in lipids.
Been super awesome to connect with you. Well,
thank you so much.
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move.
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