Speaker 3 (00:02.542)
See you guys.

Caroline, how long have you worked until you convert?

A little over two years, I think, three in April.

Okay, so almost three years, and how long did you work in home building before then?

I'm gonna say five. Ever since, yeah, I'm gonna say five years.

Speaker 2 (00:23.347)
And what did you do to Beth Russell in order to steal her spot on the show?

You know, she told me she wanted to be on my very first episode. So she was like, you, you don't have to do it today if you don't want to. And I was like, I know you want to be part of it.

She's so cute.

I guess she doesn't realize that she's giving up her chance of being on the show forever. So welcome to the new lineup.

Our favorite person.

Speaker 2 (00:55.318)
Okay, so where do you live? Introduce yourself to the throngs of listeners.

I live in Richmond, Virginia.

Okay, what do do for fun when you're not fixing ads and getting leads?

I do lots of things. My most recent fixation is making felt ornaments for Christmas. I even brought one for Day Look.

You brought one. Oh look at that. It's a Do You Convert logo. Is that not the key? Yeah. very cute. You only need to make what, 40 of those and send them out to

Speaker 3 (01:28.204)
cutest thing you've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (01:33.358)
I was like, want to send them, but I can't make them for everyone.

Do you have other things to do?

Yeah, I have, I gotta make little trouts.

god.

Speaker 3 (01:47.852)
That's like my favorite one. And I knew Jackie would appreciate it because I her my snowman. So was like, I got to show him.

I it.

Caroline is one of our innumerable secret weapons at Do You Convert, who you all are gonna get the pleasure of getting to know a little bit better on today's special episode of Marketproof Marketing. Welcome to episode 416, I'm Kevin Oakley and with me today is Jackie Lipinski and for the first time ever, Caroline Collard. Woo! Collard like the Made it.

Yeah, that's what my husband says.

Was that a discussion before you got married about who would take whose name?

Speaker 3 (02:28.66)
No, it was assumed. Yeah, had to give up.

Okay.

Have you ever listened to the show before, Caroline? Absolutely. All right. Then I imagine you came prepared in your little box lunch to the program with story time for us.

you

Speaker 3 (02:50.826)
Yeah, and I wish I had a better story time for my first episode, but I'm going with Spotify wrapped being yesterday and everyone being so obsessed with it, especially my age. And I don't get it, but I get it. And I think it's funny, like Kevin, posted something of like, it's so accurate. And it's like, well, yeah, it's your data, you know? So I do think that's

Thank you.

Speaker 3 (03:20.704)
interesting and Spotify does such a great job of taking user data and making it this big emotional thing that people love and everyone posts it on their story and that just becomes like this communal thing for the whole day. But then on the flip side, like Jackie put something about having captain underpants.

Yeah, fourth most listened to song Captain Underband theme song. Yeah.

So there's like more to the story besides just the data that you see, you've got to go a little bit further, tell the story. like with home building and that aspect, you can see the data, you can make your assumptions, but then also going into like online sales, talking to actual people that went through, got appointments, testimonials and things like that.

Yeah, think if we make assumptions versus the data at data face value, I'm a six year old boy who dances to kept in underpants.

I is a good example of not only were they the first to do this that really caught everyone by surprise what it feels like maybe five or six years ago now. But they keep evolving and trying to tell a better story while everyone else is in their mind. Like what I think is really cool about this is the the mimicry that's happening from everyone else trying to do raps, but either not.

Speaker 2 (04:46.252)
picking the right kinds of data to show or like it's just uninteresting but they're like we did it too look we're cool we're doing the thing where Spotify is like we're gonna make up a new thing which is your what is it they call like your music age okay

That was new, right? That's what I thought. I'm like 79.

Yeah, I'm 70.

Accurate as someone who's making felt ornaments. goodness. But yeah, that's that is a it's something to talk about. It's it's would no longer be remarkable to just show your most listened to music. What makes Jackie what made Jackie's share remarkable was that hers was Captain Underpants, which means there is more to the story. It's not just the data. so builders could very easily go in their analytic data.

say this is our most popular three floor plans viewed on our website or considered. But the more interesting thing would be to like, why would those be the most ones likely to be considered? Oh, because one is the most expensive and one is the least expensive. And it shows that people always want to know more about what's available. So like the data itself is important. And the fact that people are so excited about this data certainly has to do with how emotional music is to begin with.

Speaker 2 (06:08.462)
Like it's tapping into something emotional, but that's what homes are too. Remember home is the second most emotive word after mom. So mom, home, and then music. So there's opportunity there.

I do remember last year, people being disappointed in the Spotify rap, not being like fun or creative enough. It almost went too safe. you're right. That's all.

Now they have AI, Jackie. How are we going to determine these? Like, what is your musical age? I know we'll just feed all the data into an LM and we'll make stuff up.

no sense for me because I was like, yes, listen, I like Bill Withers. I like the Beatles, but I also the I'm in the 0.02 % of people who listen to the Lorax. Like it's that's that's too many times living to let it go or the tree song. So when my age was 70, I was like, well, you just told me all my son, son songs are like leading all of my top things. But then I'm 70. Like I didn't really understand the why behind that data. So I thought that one was interesting for my rap, at least.

One I'm very excited for, I haven't been delivered mine yet, but I've heard it is coming is YouTube's version of Wrapped, which is going to be similarly granular, but like I already know I'm obsessed with cameras and technology and the rest, it is is interesting because I I'm very in all parts of my life, very peculiar. So I I spend almost all my time on the subscription pages, like pages that I'm subscribed to and the updates that they push so I can filter out what I'm seeing.

Speaker 2 (07:41.57)
But of course, I'm still human, so every once in I load up the app and I'm like, so I'm curious to see the things that have caught my attention and if there's a pattern to those that are outside of the channels I choose to subscribe to. That's what I'm really curious to see more about, how crazy I am.

All right, Jackie, good job, the way. Carolyn, we're gonna give you one point. was a good one.

felt.

Speaker 3 (08:08.014)
Out of what?

We don't want to

If you listen to the show you would know but we'll we'll address that later Jackie

Thanks for watching.

It was good. It is that reminded me of the holidays, Caroline, because I don't know about you guys, but is any, I just want to throw my phone right now. Like the amount of text messages I'm getting from deals or world markets specifically is telling me like every day, every day they're sending me a text message. And it's, it's almost making me avoid my phone more than make me interested because I feel like, but I also don't want to unsubscribe. Like it's this weird balance of like,

Speaker 1 (08:45.282)
I feel like a text message is too intimate and personal of an experience from a company, but also I do want to know things very quickly. So I almost wish there was a solution because I know like with outlook, I'm sorry, with emails, you can have like a fake email, like a blocker. Like I do almost want like a fake text message number to like create this almost categorized way to.

to have my friends text messages and then my sponsored text messages. I don't know about you guys, I'm sure it would be bad for the marketing industry, but I feel like this is the time of season where most marketers go, awesome, this is where we're gonna get the most sales. And as a marketer, it frustrates me the most because I feel like I'm being so bothered right now.

Yeah, it's not that you're upset about any particular way of connecting. In particular, it's the fact, and this actually kind of goes into my story time a little bit too, which is that people think they're marketers and or salespeople and or business owners think they're solving the attention problem now that they have simulated intelligence tools to do things more often. And so it's like,

You know what, consumers need to be paid more attention to, given more insight. We're gonna give Jackie, this is the world market people talking, we're gonna give Jackie all kinds of insights that she doesn't know or might not have missed. So we're gonna make sure that she feels connected to us and we're her best friend who's sending her good suggestions on things she could be purchasing. And they're giving you a lot of attention. But it's attention without any care.

or thought. So the other thing I think I might have talked about this on the program before is this idea of AI simulated intelligence causing cover letter lengths to be doubled. So someone did analysis and found that because writing itself is easier to do with simulated intelligence tools, that people are just doing more. And so

Speaker 2 (11:03.106)
That just means that no one reads covered letters at all anymore. It's no longer a signal of, did someone really sit down and think and put pen to paper or start typing with their fingers this message about how they uniquely could fill the role that's open? Like it's all just there. So attention without effort. Effort was the word I was missing. It's like, I forget, I was also thinking about this too.

There was some museum that I went to, think it was either like Rome rebuilt with toothpicks or Popsicle sticks, or it was like ancient Jerusalem. It was some crazy giant thing that was in a kids museum. And like an entire room was just this thing. And the reason it's there is because it's like a symbol of the amount of effort that some crazy person spent 15 years of their life.

breaking off popsicle sticks and gluing them together to make, like the thing itself in today's world could be 3D printed, no big deal. But you wouldn't put the 3D printing of the city in a room because there's no signal about the amount of effort that went into it. And I think that's what we're missing. I I've continued to rail on and on and on about McDonald's and their self-serve kiosks. There's a reason why,

you don't go into the capital grill and they say, excuse me, man, before we seat you, we'd just like you to walk over to this kiosk and can you place your order before we sit you down for your, you know, 150 to $300 per person dinner? Why not? Because it wouldn't that fit the narrative of like, make it easy for the consumer, just reduce the friction, just let them be in control. I mean, no one wants to talk to a human anyway. You know, when it comes to any kind of

higher end experience, we would revolt at that. And it's because we know that it's not just attention, it's attention plus effort. And we're losing the signal of what effort, how it can be conveyed, especially when we're using AI tools too much.

Speaker 1 (13:15.182)
Semi-related and I just thought this was fun. I was reading this article on Reddit the other day that was talking about how the new generation is finding out about this thing of like leaving their phones at home and going for a walk and like getting disconnected. And someone's like, isn't that just like yoga? Are they figuring out peace and quiet? Like, I think too, it's almost so much noise at so much time that like sometimes you...

If everything is important, nothing's important. So we just have to find that right balance. right. There has to be some effort. There has to be something that is brings value.

It loops back to those Spotify rap thing as well. Like, did it take effort to manufacture this, your musical age data point? Yeah. But that's the thing I see more people sharing than anything else. And in reality, it didn't even take that much incremental work once they figured out the tool to crank out the data in this new and different way. But someone had to spend some effort and time thinking about that. And that's what's really interesting to me is,

we used to be able to communicate effort in marketing through like really well taken photos. That's starting to go away because now you can take a mediocre photo, load it into any tool and say, make this an amazing photo. So now amazing photos by definition, it's not that they're necessarily technically not as good as great photos used to be. Some ways they're even better potentially, but the effort isn't conveyed. So now if every brand can have the same

quality level photos, that's not a signal about effort. And that's one of the reasons I think events are gonna continue to be really important. In-person events are gonna continue to really important. Anything that can convey like, no, no, we had to actually try. This isn't a GPT doing this for us. And that's again, a super huge concern I have about using AI tools that interface directly with prospects or customers.

Speaker 2 (15:20.726)
especially early on in the process, which is the most important. And I think we're losing the script on that, not just our industry, but like society as a whole, or marketers as a whole trying to reach society.

Yeah, and think videos too are showing a lot of effort to getting like the emotion and testimonial videos and telling the story that way.

Yeah. Right, and that's where I was talking about this the other day with someone who was like, how do I get the message out about this new thing they're thinking about for next year? And I was like, I just want to, it's a weird word to use, yearn. I was like, I yearn to see a man or woman on the street interview with a mic. Like, did you know that this was possible? Or when I say this, what do you think?

And the reason that's hard to do is not because it's technically hard. It's not because you don't, you the equipment is expensive. It's because the stress of someone volunteering to go out on a street and talk to strangers. my gosh, they'd rather crawl into a coffin box and be nailed shut in it for two hours and then let out most people. So that's what I mean is it's like this signal of effort. And that's where AI video is chasing that.

but the window is still open for it clearly to be articulated that like, this is so important, I got on the street and embarrassed myself. And that's what's gonna make people wanna watch it.

Speaker 2 (16:54.978)
All right, Caroline, what would you give the story time points for Jackie and I?

One.

What?

That's ridiculous. On our scale, that's like somewhat insulting. I'm just kidding, there is no scale. You didn't miss anything. I told you, so for those of you who have made it with us this far, Caroline is our newest marketing coach and also manages our strategist team here at Deconvert. She's like, I wasn't kidding about the secret weapon part. She's one of the best we have. And it's not a requirement.

I think I missed the scale.

Speaker 2 (17:34.766)
as a marketing coach to be on the podcast, but she pushed Beth into a closet, locked the door, and now she's on. All right, on to the news, and also where I start collecting my being right points. OpenAI hits pause on ChatGPT ads, just as they were being leaked out into the wild. As the CEO declares a code red.

OpenAI CEO Sam Altman ordered an urgent chat GPT quality overhaul and paused advertising plans to focus on strengthening the core product.

These are the pause plans that you don't have.

Well, yes, I thought about that too, because he's one of the like, you either like Sam Altman or respect Sam Altman, or you think he's one of the worst people probably to ever live. But there was reports like Jackie referenced just a week or two before showing that chat.gbt was testing ad products in the wild and people were grabbing screenshots and sharing those. So

And I don't think there's any way around it. They have to do it, but it would have been like doubly bad after the release of Gemini 3 by Google and his parent company Alphabet, which came out as this overall superior product, one, two, on the video and the photography front, or image front, vastly superior to what OpenAI is able to offer. It would have been a double whammy to both be behind in quality

Speaker 2 (19:09.914)
And like roll out advertising at the same time as Gemini doesn't include advertising as is built in yet. So I think my being right points are all about like saying, how are you all counting Google out so early in this process? And like Google excels at like how many of us have a Gmail account?

Right, or four. How many have, so like search engines, anything that is free to the consumer and used at scale, which that sounds like something AI might be. A lot of consumers wanting to use it without paying for it and it needing to be used by a lot of the world population. Like Google's gonna figure this out. Yeah, any other thoughts as you all were reading through this one?

I love the drama of it too, the urgent code red, but I'm kind of proud of them to take a pause and like think about it and try to make it better before they roll it out. I've also noticed there was something about it trying to be more personalized and everything. And I've noticed in the past few weeks when I'm using it to troubleshoot things, like it's trying to be personal and like my friend now where before it was a little more stale.

Yeah, and that's even part it. So now the whole point is that ChachiBuddy is supposed to listen to the request that you make of it. There's a tweet that went viral on X where Sam Altman rolled out and said, hey, we just, this was like three weeks ago, I think, four weeks ago. Hey, with the latest model that we're releasing, it will finally listen to you and not use dashes if you tell it not to. That only took, you know, what, one and a half trillion dollars worth of,

spend and we can figure out how to get it to listen to us on a simple request like that. But yeah, I mean, they're already the code read is there was talk about that too, Carolina of like, he, this is an internal memo that he wrote that got leaked. He would have known it was going to get leaked. So how much of this is signaling to everyone else? Like we're going to take this seriously and like take a step back and really focus in on this effort and, how much of it is,

Speaker 2 (21:35.758)
like signaling to the outside that trust me, I'm gonna take care of this everyone, but he's not really sure how. Although they are saying they're gonna release a new model next week.

It also reminds me of, you know, who can, who can lose money more easily? Probably Google. Google can hold itself while chat.gbt kind of still finds its way. So I also think it's just a, like a pause and wait strategy from Google to just say like, yeah, we won't roll out ads until chat.gbt basically turns from red to dead, because they're trying to make it fail.

And internally, and then once that happens, I can see people rolling out the chat, GPT ask style search engine, GPT ads.

Yeah, by a mere definition that Google makes a ton of money, they can afford to lose all the money they're making plus all the money they're not making, whereas OpenAI is not making enough money for that even to count, really. And the subscription model in terms of paying for models isn't going to be enough, no matter how you slice it. They could keep raising the price. In fact, after Gemini 3 came out, I went down and lowered my tier from $200 a month with Chachi BT to back to the, I think it's $20, $30 a month plan.

I don't need this. for me, I do a lot of my work in Google's ecosystem anyway, with Google Sheets and Google Docs and Gmail and all the rest. And then with Apple using Siri, trying to improve Siri by using Gemini 3 and elements of Gemini in the new Siri to come out next year, it's pretty stunning how quickly OpenAI has gone from like,

Speaker 2 (23:20.23)
way clearly being a leader to everyone kind of chipping away at them and then Google dropping an anvil on their head is what it feels like. But I'm not counting them out. just think they both need an advertising driven model really soon. Because when you release that model, it's not going to be good out of the gate. Like it took Meta years to get to the mediocrity that their ad platform is now. And I say that somewhat in jest, but

Like Google and Meta are just light years above everyone else in terms of the amount of control that you can have as an advertiser and it actually working when you pull the right levers. Even LinkedIn, you think about how much better that platform has gotten since we first started running ads on it, gosh, probably four years ago. It's still expensive and it still isn't gonna be a huge driver of volume, but it no longer requires thousands and thousands of dollars just to get

bare minimal amount of return. So they need to do that sooner than later. And that's going to be a whole other PR nightmare when it does. once the average person realizes how much, like if you think Spotify wrapped is blowing your mind about how much it knows about you based on what you listen to, everything you ever put into your own instances of chat GPT are being recorded and kept.

And know, can and will be used against you in the advertising world.

Yeah, I actually, I saw this lawsuit about the copywriting. Someone was doing something for copywriting. So they have access to everything that's ever been searched. it's, definitely.

Speaker 2 (25:01.816)
They're not hiding it. They're also not saying it. But as Sam has said, like, yeah, don't put anything in here that you like if someone sees you and or us, we have to disclose everything.

Speaker 2 (25:14.04)
All right, next up from Digiday, media briefing, publishers turned a vertical video to compete with creators and grow ad revenue in 2026. And it's been blocked for me. Do guys have it? Earlier.

can still see it. It just does another pivot to video.

Yeah, I don't get that far, but let me re, I may go into incognito and see if I can.

share my takeaways.

Okay, yeah, I got it through incognito.

Speaker 2 (25:55.264)
It may seem like publishers are pivoting to video all over again with news outlets like Time, CNN, New York Times, adding more vertical video to their sites and apps in the last few months, but it's different this time around. The big push into video production 10 years ago was all around social media platforms. Now publishers are focusing on adding more vertical video feeds to their own properties as a defensive play against two shifts you can't ignore. Audiences spending much more of their time inside of TikTok style feeds and the creator economy dominating where people get news and information.

The one thing that scared me about this article was it saying adults under 35 use social media and more likely to consume news from creators by 48%. And I, but how it also relates to builders is a lot of builders are sometimes they're still thinking about their desktop version of their websites too. And like we have to think mobile, we have to think phone, have less people have desktops as an, as an even an option.

So this is a really a huge way how people are digesting their news, digesting every single website. So that has to be at the forefront of our minds as we're creating things. And yes, you can chop up videos and you can do things in different ways, but thinking of it vertically first, I think is also just the new step moving forward. But honestly, Kevin, if you told me this article was written like three years ago, I would have said, yeah, obviously. Like it, just feels like, this is something we should also have been thinking of for years.

at this point.

Yeah, I feel like at this point, you're only creating horizontal videos, already, you're way behind.

Speaker 2 (27:29.452)
Yeah, I think the headline could have been just rewritten. Publishers realize they lost it 10 years ago. And as someone who, again, loves technology and video and photography technology in particular, the resolution on everything is so high today that you can shoot a video and you do have to be in, keep in mind like how you're cropping it.

vertically, but you don't have to just shoot vertically and not be able to do both. In fact, a lot of the newer cameras, part of the feature set is like, we're going to shoot a giant square and then you just pick how you want to use the content. And if you change your mind later, you can re-edit it. And also with the latest AI tools, you can be like, hey, this one thing wasn't in my vertical frame when I cropped it, can you fix it for me? And it will. So I just, it doesn't have to be as hard to shoot vertical and you don't have to give up.

the freedom to be able to still put stuff on television full frame either.

Yeah, the one thing that drives me crazy though is when builders or anyone will have a horizontal video and they have text on it and like pop-ups and everything, but then they want to use it as vertical and then it just looks like a jumbled mess because it's, you know, cutting everything in half.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:50.318)
We're trying to the easy button on that.

In terms of everyone getting their news from social feeds, I think this goes back again to why more builders and developers don't have a dedicated person on their team who is at least spending the majority of their time creating this kind of content. Like speak to the camera, be somewhat interesting, be clear. You don't even have to, mean, professional enough, right, is kind of the argument.

there too, but almost no one does it. They're all still doing B-roll with voiceover and slow piano music. And it's so bad of a problem in fact that in China, they just recently passed a law. I don't know if either one of you heard about this. This is completely true. You can get a fine of up to $14,000 US dollars per instance of discussing sensitive or professional topics without a verified credential such as a degree or license.

It's a deal.

If you go on TikTok and start talking about how this amazing product is gonna make your teeth whiter and stronger and blah, blah, and you're not accredited from a dental organization, like you're gonna get a fine. That's how serious they are. Meanwhile, we're like, can you just at the beginning say this post is sponsored or they had to send this to me for free?

Speaker 1 (30:16.802)
This is hashtag ad.

Anything about it. Yeah

Yeah, think builders feel pressure to have everything look perfect. And that's why people are scared to get behind the camera and do some of that more.

And that's why a lot of consumers feel the need to go pay a real estate agent for representation because they're like, this isn't real. I don't know what this is. This doesn't feel authentic. It feels overly produced, overly protected.

pretty sure it's from this is marketing from Seth Godin that book, but he just talks about like, what is the benefit of video? It is also building trust through frequency of seeing someone's face. It's like knowing your mailman's name. Like you're going to get him a Christmas gift or Christmas gift. So there are, there are ways to, build that trust, but yeah, I think so many people are afraid of breaking the trust or, you know, saying what they have to say and making sure it's accurate that the, the,

Speaker 1 (31:18.734)
thought of doing something wrong is worse than just trying. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of stage fright when it comes to that. Um, it does scare me. I haven't seen this yet of, you can create AI people for you. I haven't seen a builder use that. I feel like I would, Oh gosh, I do not feel comfortable with that. All my trust would be immediately lost with that builder. they had an AI human.

The argument is, but if we tell them it's AI or we put it in the corner, you know, this isn't real, then it makes it all better. And that's where I go back to the effort thing. No, it doesn't because what you're communicating is, this wasn't worth our time. And again, this is like AI powered chatbots at the beginning of an interaction. Anything like, again, the most important part, the very beginning when they first reach out, they're like,

Yeah, but we're just gonna say I'm the Kevin bot and I'm here to help you as much as I can. It's like, cause you can't be bothered to actually answer my questions about buying a half a million dollar house from you. It's that default setting of, well, we just can't talk to everyone. I mean, that'd be crazy. The base assumption is still wrong. All right, last up from Zillow.

Zillow economists say the housing market will warm up in 2026 with more sales and modest price growth.

was just gonna say, like this article title like made me feel good as a, the home building industry. I was like, oh, finally like there's a good headline.

Speaker 2 (32:57.91)
Well, just remember, remember this. They said home sales. They didn't say new home sales. And this is, I'm not saying it couldn't and we should be able to get more than our fair share. But if builders keep prioritizing incentives over price improvement, you're not going to be discovered because what I think is most likely the default, most likely to happen if builders continue to lean on incentives is that

most of what they're talking about is gonna be resales.

So they think home values will rise modestly around 1.2 % in 2026. That's good, because inflation is probably still gonna be close to two and a half or 3%. So you'll actually lose a little bit in terms of adjusted for inflation, we don't have to, like you said, Jackie, it makes us feel good. Fewer owners will be underwater. Mortgage rates will hold above 6%. So the argument as we're going through here is that not that

everything's going to improve from a sales perspective because prices are gonna get more affordable, but because people are going to have to move. That's what I'm, like if mortgage rates still hold above 6%, existing home sales will climb and prices are going to keep going up. To me that says there's a bunch more people who can't hold out any longer, which is an interesting idea. And, I missed this part in my earlier review.

New construction will see its weakest year since before the pandemic. 2026 is, I'm gonna read this part word for word. It's shaping up to be the slowest year for single family home construction starts since 2019, following a notably weak year in 2025. Because there's large stock of new homes already built and others under construction, builders are expected to hold back on starting new projects.

Speaker 3 (34:56.717)
I think that just reinforces what you just said about getting rid of incentives and dropping the home prices. Cause we just really need to be competitive with the existing market.

And that's actually a really interesting thing. feel like I'm having a lot of calls is they're like, Oh, well, this other new builders doing this, this other new builders doing this. I'm like, what is the resale market near you looking like to you have to consider that as a direct competitor to, you, cannot factor what's happening in that world out from how we're being impacted too, because it's not just new construction against new construction. It's a lot of people having resale market in their minds too.

And Beezer is addressing this last one. They've been doing a lot of PR around this. Inflation savvy home features are becoming mainstream and they're talking about basically to combat rising costs. It's more important than ever to talk about energy saving features, anything that's cost saving about the home, which new construction certainly has again, the upper hand on latest building methods, latest materials, latest installation methods, more efficient.

Lightball is more efficient, appliances, everything is newer and more efficient by default. But Beezer and their Great Indoors campaign, which there used to be a store called the Great Indoors, so I'm glad that store ran out of business or else it might be confusing for Beezer. But that's their campaign is the Great Indoors. And I think it was their head of marketing was talking about like, we're gonna really be a big focus for us in 2026 is going to be communicating the lower cost of continued ownership of this home, not just payments.

and that that's gonna be important for people to understand the total amount of money it's gonna cost for you to not just purchase, but to live in this home.

Speaker 1 (36:40.856)
That's nice.

Yeah. Thank you, Zilla, for writing that. Now, if you can just bring back the make me move feature, it's all I'm asking for. I just think that would be incredible. I love that thing. All right. That'll do it for this week. We'll see you all next time. Do me a favor, everyone. Email show at duconvert, S-H-O-W, at duconvert.com.

Give Caroline on our very first episode a score from one to 10. And from the emails we will receive, I will pull out three lucky winners and send you a $50 Amazon gift card. And we might read your comments if you. What was that Caroline?

I said I want 10s all around.

the votes.

Speaker 2 (37:32.11)
All right, we'll see you next time. ya.