Jackie Lipinski (00:02.527)
All right, so I'm signing my son up for the Scouts. And now it's called the Scouts, right? Not the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. It's so fun. But we were just joking before pressing record, like, what would be the marketing merit badges that we get to earn? Like every year you get like three or you work towards it or sometimes you're just things happen and you become the merit badge. And I joked that like,

one of my apartment projects burned down in 2020. was like million. It would be like a belt of fire or it'd be like emergency marketing response. What do you, like any marketer who survived 2020 gets like a COVID mask marketing. It's a toilet paper roll.

Beth Russell (00:32.974)
so yours would be flames.

Beth Russell (00:37.262)
Yeah.

There you go.

Julie Jarnagin (00:44.333)
Definitely.

Beth Russell (00:45.704)
No, it's a toilet paper roll. It's the universal, like, the mask thing. It's still around. Like, I still see people wearing them when we're traveling, which good for you. Like, you do you. But the toilet paper, I'll never forget being pregnant during COVID, that's for sure. What would mine be? I mean, we definitely need Jade to draw these up for sure. And then we're going to, like, our newest sticker pack is going to be marketing.

Julie Jarnagin (00:47.661)
Hahaha

Jackie Lipinski (00:53.367)
around.

Jackie Lipinski (00:56.837)
Thank

Jackie Lipinski (01:09.989)
Hmm.

Julie Jarnagin (01:14.829)
Love it.

Beth Russell (01:15.052)
merit badges. Mine would either be pricing homes or like Jackie, we would have a mutual one of like a one woman team.

Jackie Lipinski (01:25.017)
Yeah, I think that makes sense. It's like a strong man person just with a zillion hats on top of them. And it's like, good luck, Julie.

Beth Russell (01:34.688)
yours is a lot more positive than mine.

Julie Jarnagin (01:37.153)
The first time, I think a big moment in your marketing career is the first time you have a big PR nightmare. like we had a rat problem all of a sudden in the neighborhood. Like there were rats everywhere because when they cleared the land, then we had another one where we were putting in a park that they didn't know where the park and the parking lot was going and they called the news on us. So I think there's something about getting the news station called on you.

Beth Russell (01:44.974)
Jackie Lipinski (01:50.144)
my god.

Jackie Lipinski (02:05.125)
Yeah.

Julie Jarnagin (02:05.419)
That is a, you know, that you have to deal with, be a good, yes, angry, angry social media post. That would be, that would be mine.

Beth Russell (02:06.936)
Yeah, picketers.

Jackie Lipinski (02:09.047)
Angry neighbor.

Beth Russell (02:11.18)
Mm-hmm.

Jackie Lipinski (02:14.437)
Everyone gets that merit badge. Like, it just comes down.

Beth Russell (02:16.684)
Yeah. And it just says Karen on it or something.

Julie Jarnagin (02:20.631)
Ha

Okay, well let's get started. Welcome to episode 410. That's a good round number. I'm Julie Jarnigan. Perfect. I'm Julie Jarnigan and with me today are Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski. Welcome guys. All right, special announcement to kick us off. Marketproof Marketing Academy 2026 is open for registration. We're official now.

Beth Russell (02:30.775)
My area code.

Jackie Lipinski (02:32.258)
Jackie Lipinski (02:37.327)
Hey everyone.

Beth Russell (02:38.958)
Hello.

Julie Jarnagin (02:47.573)
If you haven't been through the Academy in the past or you haven't done it in a few years, this is a high energy hands-on Academy designed to teach you all the technical and analytical skills you need to excel in home building marketing. I will say this is going to be held in late January, but it has a long VIP list right now. There's a lot of interest in it. So we think that it's going to sell out pretty quickly. So make sure you check out the details in the link in our show notes quickly if you're interested or interested in sending.

somebody on your team.

Jackie Lipinski (03:18.767)
Yeah. A lot of people like to go, I don't have time to train up my team, so I need to fast start them. And I think what's nice is, you know, it's three and a half days. And if you calculate the hours, I think that's like a year and a half with do convert like side by side. So it gets you ramped up super fast and I don't think it's ever not sold out. get. Yeah.

Julie Jarnagin (03:37.547)
And then eight weeks afterward, it's three and half days intensive in the beginning, and then you have weeks of additional training towards the end.

Beth Russell (03:45.615)
Yeah, you know what, actually I was talking to one of my marketers who was one of your standouts at the last Academy Jackie. She actually told me that she went back and watched a video recently because she was like, that's right. We learned this at the Academy. I'm going to go into my group and reference like what everyone said in their notes. And it was really cool because that education is so incredibly valuable. It's like, who doesn't want on demand questions answered at a foundational level?

Jackie Lipinski (03:52.531)
Mmm. That's exactly what it was.

Jackie Lipinski (04:14.457)
Yeah, and a lot of people don't know at the end, you do have to pass a test to get a credit. You know, like, this is great. Like, OK, but you're taking notes because we have three tests to pass and not everyone passes. And you do get a couple of chances, but you got to bring your best to the game. And you're allowed to ask questions. There's a great chat. And you create, hopefully, lifelong friends within the group yourself. So it's virtual. It's fun. gosh, we helped develop it.

Julie Jarnagin (04:18.785)
Thank

Beth Russell (04:23.735)
Yeah.

Jackie Lipinski (04:43.673)
more intense just because this is right Beth, what we wanted when we were, when we were in the seat. So.

Beth Russell (04:48.106)
when we were in the seat. Yeah. And you too can earn your MPA merit badge.

Jackie Lipinski (04:53.413)
I'm your adge.

Julie Jarnagin (04:54.893)
There you go. Perfect. Perfect. All right. Let's jump into story time. Beth, let's start with you.

Beth Russell (05:02.582)
goodness. Okay. I had a right before this, I met with one of our, our lovely marketing leaders and we were just catching up a little bit and getting a pulse on how things are going. And one of the things that I really wanted to dive in with her in particular was the strategy that they had where they, they took an event that was otherwise an event, you know, it was going to be a $20,000 food truck community event, with the hope that

people come and see this community that wasn't performing as well. Well, what we ended up doing with this event is kind of flipping it on its head and creating some intentionality behind it. And so there's a lot of strategy built into it and that we've baked into the overall thing. And we went with this whole campaign. It was really cool. So I just wanted to hear like, well, how's it going? And it was interesting because she was like, well, you know, we didn't get any sales.

And it's like, OK, well, I can understand that that is frustrating, but what were the wins? And I think we're in a time right now where we all need to kind of redirect or redefine our wins and how we see wins, because the wins might not always result in a sale. The wins, in this case, is that one, they spent money with intention. They got people through the door.

that wanted to actually purchase a home in this community, that wanted to learn more, that wanted to have intentional conversations. So we were like, OK, how can we quantify this? How many closed door meetings actually happened as a result of these efforts? What were those conversations like? How deep did they get? What are the next five things that we're going to do as a result that if we wouldn't have created this intentionality and this whole campaign around it, it would have just been an event and

None of those conversations would have ever happened. So focusing on the big win is great. But if you got 20, 30, 40 feet further down the field than you would have if you hadn't had enacted this strategy or campaign, that in itself is also a win. And you need to celebrate every little piece of momentum moving forward.

Julie Jarnagin (07:23.501)
Yeah, and that helps you come up with a plan for what's next. If you just scrap it as like, oh, we didn't get it ourselves, that wasn't helpful. But going through the practice of what you just did helps you go through, okay, then what's next of these people who came through? What are the objections we need to overcome? How do we need to reach out to these people? What's next? Who else do we need to get through the door?

Beth Russell (07:45.668)
Yeah, absolutely. And at the end of it, she's gonna have her event merit badge of like, I know how to run a darn good event that results in something tangible that we now can take further beyond the doors closing.

Julie Jarnagin (07:50.71)
you

Jackie Lipinski (08:01.945)
Yeah, I think that goes along with anything you change or do. It's always worth a post-mortem action plan at the end. Like, okay, this didn't go right, but here's what we did. And one thing I'll tell you that we did, I don't know why I'm referencing my apartment marketing window days, not window, I know. So we had a project and we didn't get lease ups.

Beth Russell (08:20.847)
Because we talked about the flames on fire, that's why.

Julie Jarnagin (08:22.849)
Ha ha.

Jackie Lipinski (08:28.389)
And so we were just like, OK, what could it be? And we ended up just all staying in room, being quiet, while one guy got on the phone. And we went through the number of all the people who walked through in the last week. And we just called them and listened. And we're like, could it be? Is there an echo? Is there something consistent? Was it the right time? Was it the wrong time? Was it the right audience? And just having that very candid feedback of it didn't go right and having the opportunity to follow up with those people is

Beth Russell (08:53.359)
Mm-hmm.

Jackie Lipinski (08:56.569)
an opportunity and when people know that you're listening to them and you're listening to their feedback of, well, I like this community, but I thought it had this or, I was assuming this, something like that, you might not be able to fix that, but you can pivot your messaging or talk differently about it moving forward. So lots of things to learn there. Well, Beth, I love when I things like vibe because my story time is about the three quotes that are always on my whiteboard and...

The first one is, but what are the benefits in quotes? Because I think there's always a silver lining. And so if anyone tries to get on a call and just start being negative, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. There is something good to be had here. So let's talk about what that is because we can't just go in thinking everything is the worst thing ever. There are benefits when we're either learning or pivoting or learning what not to do. That's great. And then the other quote I have is progress is better than perfection.

My firstborn son is a culprit of this. I have to keep telling him there's no such thing as perfect and he gets upset. He's like, but there is, I'm like, no, no, there's no such thing as perfect. It's only better. It's only improving. He still doesn't get it, but I think we do. And I think as recovering perfectionists in our industry, or at least some people, if you're realizing you're a perfectionist, try to become a recovering perfectionist because progress towards what's good

Julie Jarnagin (10:02.441)
You

Jackie Lipinski (10:22.379)
is better than trying to get it perfect every time. Or like creating content, some things are high quality, some things you just gotta ship. Some things it's about the consistency that needs to go out. So realize there has to be a balance there. And then my third quote I think goes along with the market that I like is, discomfort is a sign of learning and progress. If you're not uncomfortable doing something new, you're not learning.

Things can be easy. And we talked this morning as coaches, like pressure creates diamonds. And so just think of like when you feel the pressure on you, you're just becoming a better version of you for the future. So don't discredit the discomfort you might be feeling in this market because it's going to create a better marketer and you're going to be a better marketer for it.

Beth Russell (10:51.375)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Jarnagin (11:13.687)
Yeah, I love that. And that does tie in with mine because I was thinking about what we tell our kids that Mr. Roger used to say, look for the helpers. That's kind of what it gets to be in a bad market in a rough fourth quarter too, is that people are looking for the leaders. Like they're looking for that. They need somebody calm and decisive and moving forward and what's the next thing and not panicky. And sometimes that's...

Jackie Lipinski (11:20.965)
Yes.

Julie Jarnagin (11:41.665)
That's what we see in the marketers that we're working with. You see the ones that are feeling a little frantic and a little panicky and maybe you just want to do action for the sake of doing action or want to like pull back and just give up on this quarter. But just remember there's other, there's your team, there's your buyers, there's your leadership. Everybody's watching and they're in this kind of market. They're looking for those leaders. They're looking for those people that, okay, there's our calm presence.

who knows what we should do next. Let's keep moving forward, even if it's a tough quarter or a tough month or leads have gotten quieter, what's next? that's what I thinking about, because I had told my kids that before, the look for the helpers. think everybody right now internally is looking for the leaders. So it's everybody's chance to kind of step up and be that calm voice making progress, even in harder markets.

Beth Russell (12:36.751)
Mm-hmm.

Jackie Lipinski (12:38.885)
love that.

Beth Russell (12:39.097)
Yeah, all three of those.

tie in perfectly because it's all rooted by this, same concept of like find the wins, right? Hunt the good, find the wins, restructure your view on what is the stress. The psychology nerd in me has the urge to tell everyone that that state of stress is called eustress where it's stressful and you feel that pressure like Jackie was talking about, but you can remain calm through that pressure knowing that that eustress is actually good stress and that's the area.

that you experience the best growth and become the best version of yourself. So if you're looking for finding that centered state of calmness that Julia's talking about, listening to what Jackie said, have those quotes and lean into that area of you stress and recognize that you're there. It might not feel like that. You might feel chaotic, but you're there.

Jackie Lipinski (13:33.381)
This podcast sponsored by Therapy.

Beth Russell (13:35.713)
Yeah. What is the like online therapy thing? Yeah. Free promotion.

Julie Jarnagin (13:39.927)
Better help.

Jackie Lipinski (13:40.962)
Julie Jarnagin (13:45.197)
love it. Love it. All right. And on to the news. I'm going to rearrange things a little bit. And we're going to start with our fearless leader, Kevin Oakley, who recently put out a new article called The Limiting Factor to Sales Results. And he's talking about he has started to watch the Netflix series, the Formula One Drive to Survive. Do you all watch this? I don't know. I don't watch this either.

Jackie Lipinski (13:45.893)
free promotion.

Beth Russell (13:56.409)
So good.

Beth Russell (14:10.271)
No. Apparently it's very popular, though.

Jackie Lipinski (14:10.276)
No.

Julie Jarnagin (14:13.931)
I know it's interesting because Kevin Oakley doesn't watch a lot of that. He's usually not up on the shows and the movies. So it's always interesting to find out what he's watching. But over and over, what he's saying is that they're coming back to the idea of find the limiting factor. So if there's a car not performing fully to its potential, it's like, what is the thing holding it back? And oftentimes he says it's the tires on a car, because that's kind of weakest link. But how he ties this in is a lot of times we're hearing from builders right now,

We need more traffic, we need more leads. We need more traffic, we need more leads. Well, maybe, but right now in this market at this time of the year, right now traffic seems high. You know, we can get the traffic. It's actually converting down lower to the bottom of the funnel. So it's paying attention to what really is that limiting factor that might be causing you stress is that the sales conversion.

that is the issue. It's the messaging, it's some product, you know, there's things we can and can't control, but it's actually diving in and figuring out what that limiting factor is and not trying for just the easy answer of let's pay more money for more traffic. So how do you feel about this one?

Jackie Lipinski (15:25.245)
And that goes along with some builder calls I've been having this month because a lot of people, some people immediately go, the leads are down, how do we make this up? And we're like, well, again, this is quarter four, this is what happens every year. But one of my other builders were like, okay, let's talk about your leads. They're like, yeah, our leads are down 24 % and our sales are up 9%, isn't that awesome? So their leads, I always like to think of leads as, when we talk about leads as quality of ABCs, but I like to say quarters, nickels, dimes, these are golden dollars.

If they're coming in right now, they're absolutely worth your time. There are less, but they have more value and just making sure you are treating them that way. And you can kind of speak to that through the data that you're seeing as well. We just did an algorithm with a builder too. And they were like, oh, I think we need 500 leads. We need 500 leads. We need 500 leads. And we're like, okay, let's do the math. You need 260 leads at how you're performing. Where did this 500 come from? Oh, they couldn't answer that. like, this is what we need to do. So sometimes it's just sitting down.

Seeing how you're performing, seeing the math and projecting forward is how you can succeed. And they were really close to that. So just building your own benchmarks against yourselves and not listening to outside factors sometimes is also a skill. And I think that's what he's saying too is it's not attention. It's not all these other things. It's what can you change in making sure that just the easy thing is not the scapegoat, which is usually website travel.

Beth Russell (16:53.7)
Yeah, I love this article. I love this article because it's Kevin's hot takes are coming back. It gets me really excited. But it's so true.

Julie Jarnagin (16:53.751)
Yeah. And I liked this.

Jackie Lipinski (17:00.325)
Yeah.

Beth Russell (17:04.896)
Everything that he's saying I it's one of those articles that you want to print out and slide under someone's door so that they can hear what you're saying even quoted Casey from MI during the summit in regards to incentives I'm just gonna say that and encourage you to go read it but the reason why I love this whole thing is Exactly what you're saying Jackie and it kind of goes back to the story time of like events Kevin and I have this conversation of you know, there's a builder who

It has a VIP community coming up. And they're like, OK, well, we need more leads. All right, why do you need more leads? Well, we're only getting this many. And we have to get five sales. OK, why do you need to get five sales? What's the plan? What do mean? When do you release?

OK, well, what's the plan? If you don't have a plan to kind of back up all the things that you're saying that you need, if you haven't done the homework to make realistic choices based off of the data, then you don't actually need what it is you're saying that you need. What you get is what you get. You have to make the best of it.

Jackie Lipinski (18:11.418)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Jarnagin (18:11.457)
Yeah, and I liked that last line, fix the tires, which is the limiting factor, and then push your foot down on the throttle, attention again. If you do it the other way around, if you just, before you figure out what the problem is, then you're just wasting all that time, energy, and money of pushing attention towards it. So just make sure you have that order right. We like attention, attention's great, but if you don't do the work up front, it's not gonna solve any of your problems.

Beth Russell (18:21.658)
Mm-hmm.

Beth Russell (18:38.316)
Amen. The best line, which you just made me remember this, Julie. A change that doesn't improve the limiting factor is a waste of focus.

Jackie Lipinski (18:41.253)
you

Julie Jarnagin (18:48.833)
Yes, yes, that's a good one. All right, let's move on to this is from realestatenews.com. Zillow pulls Matterport tours from listing Blame's co-star. So we have a little bit of industry drama happening right now. The portal said co-star which acquired the 3D tech in April did not renew Zillow's Matterport agreement but

Beth Russell (19:07.408)
Little bit.

Jackie Lipinski (19:07.941)
That's a of miscellaneous things.

Julie Jarnagin (19:17.517)
CoStar says that's not the case. So basically what's happening is Zillow is saying that CoStar is trying to quote wall off data by changing its media rights to restrict Matterport tours. CoStar responded and said, no, that's not true. Zillow is intentionally misrepresenting this because there's some other lawsuits happening about photo rights and those things. So it's a little, little bit of drama, but how it affects home builders.

is right now you can't, it's no Matterport's on Zillow and they're working through that. There's other tours you can use, their own service, there's some services that can be on there, but right now it's a Zillow slash Matterport issue.

Jackie Lipinski (20:05.573)
Which sucks, because I remember when I was a builder, like how beneficial those were for us when we had a lot of out of state buyers just being able to tour the home. So I don't think, you know, when people are looking for easier syndication sites that just show everything, obviously it's a blow to Zillow for making sure that that detail's there. But yeah, it was funny when Kevin sent us over that, he also sent a list of like 12 to 15 other.

Resources so there are resources it's just kind of like now we have to go back on board.

Julie Jarnagin (20:38.145)
Yeah. And the concern is I think for builder, mean, they're already using Matterport. So it's like, do we have to double up now? Do we have to get somebody else too? Or do we just not have those tours on Zillow? So that it is causing a friction. That's the right word, friction for marketers on like how much time do we spend figuring this out and money. So their drama is impacting people. Yeah.

Jackie Lipinski (20:51.749)
section.

Beth Russell (21:00.644)
Yeah, in a state where we're already limited.

Jackie Lipinski (21:05.999)
Super fun.

Julie Jarnagin (21:07.021)
All right, on to the next article from Builder Online. 10 surprising takeaways from the minds of today's homebuyer. There it goes, a pop-up ad, you gotta love that.

Julie Jarnagin (21:26.017)
I've disappeared, are y'all still there? Okay, sorry about that. From affordability to air filtration, new data from the American at-home study reveals key signals home builders can't ignore. Any thoughts on this one?

Jackie Lipinski (21:27.866)
Yes.

Jackie Lipinski (21:40.614)
thought it was interesting, or we're gonna say, at the end, it just talks about, I think most of the focus of this is the trade-offs people will do or where they're focusing their energy. So I love number nine, consumers are willing to trade yard size for community spaces because I think that makes sense. I would have a smaller backyard if it means interacting with my neighbors or just having more of a pocket neighborhood feel or a soccer.

Beth Russell (21:40.624)
It's...

Jackie Lipinski (22:08.623)
fields, play with my kids and a bunch of other kids. There are absolutely trade-offs I think some people would make for those. Yeah, talks about pocket parks, greenways, gathering spots, just building up that sense of community. And I think that's with new construction homes. What a magical way we can build that and kind of think about that as we're building communities to kind of have that, what's the word I'm looking for? Like this just unique.

market benefits. I don't know. Someone listening is like, know exactly what she means. But the competitive advantage, thank you, to building those communities in the spaces. And I like that detail that they came out of there.

Julie Jarnagin (22:54.443)
Yeah, one of them was like coffee shops. I thought that was interesting. was like they want to be able to walk to coffee shops.

Beth Russell (22:54.757)
Yeah, it's interesting because...

Jackie Lipinski (22:58.112)
I like that. Yeah, I'll go to the coffee shop next to my house.

Julie Jarnagin (23:07.669)
Beth, what was your take on it?

Beth Russell (23:10.001)
So it's interesting because I think some of it, while they say the hot phrase of unexpected or whatever it was for the 10 takeaways, but some of them are like, well, it makes sense if you really think about it. If you really think about the fact that affordability is an issue. One of the takeaways is people can't find the house that they want for the price that, I mean, duh, right? That's not really surprising.

Julie Jarnagin (23:34.977)
Yeah, shocking.

Beth Russell (23:37.656)
I know, news flash. But the other part of it, like Jackie said, is just people aren't willing to compromise the way that they used to. In some cases, they have to, right? But they're like, the data also proves that people are staying in their homes longer. And it's like, well, if I'm going to leave this house that I'm comfortable in, if I'm going to go through the stress of moving, then I'd better be improving my life in some capacity. And whether that means wellness.

They spoke a lot about this theme of wellness, whether it's air quality or the overall ecosystem of the home itself and how that operates. Maybe people have been living in really old houses for a long time. And they're like, well, if I'm going to move, then I need to make sure that I have the best air quality system possible. And I need my house to work for me versus against me. And so I think layering in.

these data points alongside the psychology of consumers today and their driving motivators is important because I think you'll find a lot of really obvious connections.

Jackie Lipinski (24:44.707)
I also loved like the kitchen's top of the wish list because even my sister a few years ago, she's like, we're remodeling. It's going to be this. It's going to take six months. It's going to cost this. They bought a new house. She's like, I'm not really, someone else can remodel my kitchen. And I think that's fun too. When we create ads or talk about houses, you know, people always start with the exterior photo, which is fine. But sometimes we're like, make sure the kitchen is the second photo though.

Because that is the heart of the home. That is what people focus on. And I think that is almost the dissatisfaction element of most people when it comes to like the straw that breaks the camel's back is like, can't use this. So I just thought it was fun that it's, I think it's always consistently been kitchen, cooking spaces and multifunctional living for that space. So.

Julie Jarnagin (25:34.817)
Yeah. And if nothing else, this is fun to read because it's things we forget to talk about as homebuilder. It seems like clean air seems like something, you know, what's the last time we talked about this. So just content wise and all the things that a new home brings to the table, you know, that we forget to talk about, you know, community parks and playgrounds and trails and somewhere to push your stroller and walk the dog. You know, we just forget to talk about some of these things. So.

Jackie Lipinski (25:40.325)
.

Julie Jarnagin (26:04.333)
in that sense. a great article. Alright, finally from search engine land, Google officially shuts down privacy sandbox. I feel like we've been talking about this for years and years and years, but it's official. end the subheading says that they end cookie chaos for now, but leaves the future of privacy first advertising uncertain. So you know it's gone back and forth because of privacy reasons.

Jackie Lipinski (26:04.389)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Jarnagin (26:34.391)
they were doing this privacy sandbox, nobody could see how it was actually gonna work for advertisers, how we were gonna have the privacy and be able to target people properly, back and forth over years, kept scaling it back, and now it's official. So it didn't solve any of the really privacy problems that we have. those are still legitimate things that will pop back up.

and have to be addressed, but for now, no big major changes.

Jackie Lipinski (27:10.757)
Yeah, I thought when that first came out, people were like, oh, this changes everyone forever. Everyone's put into sub buckets and everything will be more anonymous. And I just, you're right. I think they didn't figure it out fully. And then I just love that it talks about what stays. The chips of the cookie. Chips stands for cookies having independent, partial state. I was like, that someone must have just high fived themselves coming up with that name embedded with cookies. But isolates cookie data to prevent cross site tracking. That actually does stays. So,

Julie Jarnagin (27:26.166)
Hahaha

Beth Russell (27:26.289)
you

Julie Jarnagin (27:33.356)
Yeah.

Jackie Lipinski (27:40.421)
But yeah, privacy friendly sign-ins and things like that. I think privacy will only become more difficult for marketers and just having that strategy and a plan in place or trying to cross collect first party data yourself is always going to be the, what you should be thinking about in the back of your mind because it's going to be very hard to retroactively get that information. having tools or login portals on your site, like there are benefits to them in the long run. So something to consider, but.

In terms of priority, where do you guys think that stands? Sales hurt.

Julie Jarnagin (28:13.717)
Yeah, I think it's one of these cases of control what you can control. So it's something you need to know about. You need to be thinking about are there ways that we can get this data on our own. But it's also we can't control Google and their privacy sandbox. so we just have to be on top of things, reading, watching, being able to be flexible and change as things come up. But right now, all this

Beth Russell (28:14.097)
below.

Jackie Lipinski (28:17.102)
Yeah

Julie Jarnagin (28:41.269)
All this talk about nothing for five years, we've talked about it and now we're starting back at square one. you know. All right, that's it for today. Thank you guys. Bye.

Jackie Lipinski (28:52.965)
Have a good one.

Beth Russell (28:54.245)
Bye.