Speaker 2 (00:11.95)
Welcome to Market Proof Marketing, the podcast from the industry leaders at Do You Convert, where we talk about the current and future state of marketing and online sales for builders and developers across the globe. We're not here to sell you, we're here to help you and to try and elevate the conversation. Welcome to Market Proof Marketing. Today we have a fantastic returning guest, the one and only Kadra from Zillow. Kadra, welcome back.

Thanks, Kevin. It's been way too long.

It has been too long and I feel like there's lots of things that I wanna catch up with you on. I'm gonna save the selfish one for the second question. First question is, what's new in your world?

Well, there's a few different things new in my world. So about six months ago, I took on a different role within Zillow New Construction. And so my new title, which is a mouthful, is industry, director of industry and partner engagement. And what that basically means is I'm still going to do a lot of the same things that I do out in the industry, but we're really, we're really taking an intentional look at how we engage with our current partners. We've, work with so many people and we want to make sure that we're reinvesting our resources back into our

current customers. So that's the focus of this new role. We're designing programs and outreach to all the partners to make sure that they're really brought into the fold more than ever before.

Speaker 2 (01:32.13)
That's that makes total sense to me. And if you don't know, Cajra, she's one of those people who is super awesome and annoying at the same time because they're so well rounded that they can do anything. And this is the only question that's not on the on our planned discussion here. You've also been to many places in the world and you and you currently live in Montana. So I just have to ask selfishly, what is your favorite

not that you'd want to live in, but your favorite place you've ever been to.

It's such a loaded question. And people ask me that all the time, because I'm quite a bop around a lot. Every place is special in its own way. And there are special moments on every trip that I've ever gone on. I would say that my happy place is in Africa. animals have my whole heart. so wildlife is what I love the most. And Africa, there's something just so peaceful and untouched and unspoiled about Africa that it's

It's just, it's my zen.

Makes sense, yeah. You're right, everything, I think that obviously contributes to also why you're just good at everything. You willingly expose yourself to everything. You tackle everything head on. You absorb it all. I don't know, it's just, there's definitely a connection between how good you are at what you do and travel, so.

Speaker 1 (03:00.298)
It shapes us, doesn't it? I know you're a yourself and it really does take hold of you and it does shape your whole reality.

Okay, hard pivot. What's new at Zillow? What's new with the Zillow?

Well, you know, as you know, there's never a dull moment at Zillow. I would say though, as being part of the new construction org, we're a smaller team within the big Zillow ecosystem. But what's really neat is there's a ton of attention on new construction, both within the Zillow walls and externally, as you know. builders are really at the forefront of this inventory crisis, this housing shortage that we've got. And they're the only ones that are really going to be able to tackle affordability in a way that makes

housing more accessible. So there's a renewed, maybe even a new focus on Zillow, on Zillow new construction. And we are, we're working closely with marketing to help them demystify what it's like to buy a new construction property. So we're actually reaching right out directly to buyers to help them. It's, it can be convoluted. It's a little bit overwhelming to think about a new construction home. So we're trying to get as much education into their hands as we can. We're also doing a lot of work.

just to make new construction even more discoverable on Zillow as buyers are searching. So lots of energy in the new construction space here at Zillow, which I think is really exciting.

Speaker 2 (04:22.006)
Yeah, okay, there's always multiple places to go. The discoverability thing, what I find fascinating is people don't understand how hard that is generally because of the way that builders work. So when builders have plans that could be built, we have inventory homes, we have homes that are sold in our construction, but the buyers could cancel and...

I don't know what year it was, but it seems like 30 years ago now. I know that's not the answer, because Zillow didn't exist 30 years ago. But, you can't just show all of new construction in just a straightforward manner, because it is overwhelming. Truly overwhelming to what the platform itself can show. You can only show so much information. Everything has to be filtered. think that's, everyone always wants to talk about, and it's true, how much data and information Zillow has.

But like one of the hardest things Zillow has to do is find that optimal balance between here's everything and here's just the right amount of what you're looking for. And there's more to come if you want to keep digging. But like this is the right place to start. So I think I just I'm I'm empathetic to the challenge that you have. The other thing that I was thinking of is this estimate and the creation of that word was huge in the propelling of Zillow's growth. And I feel like by ability as a whole.

still has like a bunch more trajectory to go down on that road. When you guys rolled out that terminology and specifically like the ability for potentially down the road people to have that almost be as primary a piece of their search criteria in terms of monthly affordability, viability, as anything else, as geography. Anyway.

Yeah. think, well, you're speaking, you're speaking Zestimate and Viability and it all really wraps up into this AI driven world that Zillow really has always lived in, but we only are continuing to dial in more. And Viability, we just launched this product and it's, I think it's awesome because buyers want to search for something that they can afford. Yeah, Zillow is very fun to go shop on and dream.

Speaker 1 (06:36.17)
and a size about all these great things. But at the end of the day, when you get serious, if you could just plug in your personal information, your credit score and your income and a couple other little nuggets, and you're going to be served properties that are within that score. Wow. What a level of comfort you have with even starting this journey that can be so daunting.

Yeah, because we know all the data that people end up spending way more than they originally go into most of the time. And so it's just a more data driven way to approach that to be like, you really should be considering this home over here that you might think is an affordable. of course that speaks like you're speaking the love language of home builders who are like, yes.

We may, although right now it's not the case, historically it's typically the case that new construction is perceived to be significantly more expensive, but actual livability or buyability of new construction, it's often not what people originally expect.

Yep. And I think what's exciting with this viability tool is all the potential that we have in the new construction space. So it's brand new, but will continue to evolve. And so we'll work with our partners and we're going to make it something that's really great in the future too.

I'm not projecting, I know nothing. I've been pontificating for the last year. The problem with the MLS is that no MLS allows anyone to say, to the ultimate buyability. It's not where the term came from. I just think it's humor. Your realtor can't do it, consumers can't do it. No one can go in the MLS where all this data lives and just say, after we factor in incentives, buy downs, everything else, what can my...

Speaker 2 (08:15.788)
my customer afford. And so the fact that you guys are working on that, think is awesome. All right, what's new for builders and new construction specifically in your world?

Timing of this call is perfect. We are, may have heard of Listing Showcase. This was a product that we launched a couple years ago, mainly in the resale space for listing agents to use. And it has taken off, it's wildly successful, the results are undeniable. And we just rolled out a builder version of Showcase. It's specifically tailored to builders, how to highlight new construction. And it's going to be rolling out.

in early 2026. So right now we are just starting to pilot with a few of our closest partners. But really what this Builder Showcase product is, it's about elevating the builder brand. It is about getting listings in front of more buyers. And it's this immersive shopping experience that I know you talk about all the time, but getting this immersive experience in front of buyers is clutch. And so this Builder Showcase product is going to allow for all of that.

So if you think about it, if you think about the main page on Zillow, you've got a map, you've got your search results tiles. And so these showcase listings are going to be prominently displayed. They're going to be eye catching. And then once you click into those listings, you're able to toggle between 3D tours, interactive floor plans. I don't, have you seen Sky Tour yet? Sky Tour is my ultimate favorite. And I think it's going to just knock people's socks off, especially in new construction because

Yeah, very cool.

Speaker 1 (09:48.438)
for everybody who doesn't know what it is, it's basically exterior drone footage that stitched together and you can fly around the house, see what the exterior of the house and what their surrounding area looks like. So how cool for, if I'm looking for where the pool is or where the clubhouse is gonna be or what my neighbors are, what homes are built, what aren't, it's a pretty magical tool to be able to go explore.

I always like to just reinforce or reiterate that there's people who are always skeptical about everything and they're like, well, they're gonna prioritize them on the listings or on the map. Like you're gonna be more visible and that's because people are paying extra or it's not, and again, I'm speaking for Zillow, not in a show sense, but I've spent enough time with you and the team to know that it's because the promise will be fulfilled.

which is that if you go and look at this listing, you're going to get this explosion of information and content that you're going to enjoy. it's a direct connection to a promise being made to the consumer on the other end of the device. That's the reason for it being more visible in the layering, so to speak, of the map is because consumers love this. And I don't know if you have data or in the future will share data on like the amount of time spent

looking at this type of listing versus a traditional listing. But it's just, we know it's what customers want to see more of.

Yeah, is, this is, it comes up every single year. We ask a question in our consumer housing trends report about what you want to see on a listing and it's still such a few amount of builders and agents are using it. It's shocking, but buyers want this. You want to be able to see, especially a new construction where you might not be looking at a home that's even built yet. You want the experience to give you a level of comfort with buying something that you can't see in real life yet. buyers want it.

Speaker 2 (11:47.104)
And the rollout is through 2026, you said, because this isn't just, know, hey, chat GPT, can you make me a tour of the, like, it's not just a horsepower CPU issue, it's an actual, some of this content has to be made, curated, prioritized, I if you wanna talk at all about like, why is this hard?

Yeah, well, it's hard to change behaviors and operations that are already in place. And there's also some requirements. You've got to have Zillow 3D Tours, Zillow interactive floor plans. so there's things that builders can start doing now, which is go get those assets and that media. And then you're going to be ready to sign up for Showcase when it's launched in 2026.

Yeah, and again, that's not because you're mean people. It's because if you turn this on, you can't have a bunch of empty holes where there's supposed to be content that would again defeat the purpose for the consumer and the experience you're trying to deliver. So, all right, let's talk about buyer trends. You all do this survey every single year. What are the highlights for you? What do buyers want? What's the data showing?

Yeah, so Consumer Housing Trends report, Zillow does a big buyer seller, renter report, but in 2020 we broke out new construction because new construction buyers just have some differences and we wanted to explore those. review those reports every single year and I always pick out just the nuggets. Like what's going to be cool and interesting this year? First, we just talked about, so there's three that I want to really talk through. First one though, we need interactive media on an online search. Please put it on your listings.

But then the other two that I want to highlight is the rise of the Gen Z buyer. then the fact that climate risk is on everybody's mind when they're searching and it's only becoming more and more prominent when people are searching. let's start with the Gen Z buyer. 14 % of new construction buyers were Gen Z, which I thought that number stood out to me because.

Speaker 1 (13:51.15)
Big number and they you know, we think of them as 20 year olds, but they're not Up to the age of what 29 know. Yeah So I think that and I think you probably remember these days we used to just we would beat the drum of the millennial buyer and we're like You cannot call them you have to text them because they're not gonna answer their phones. They will only text you back Well now we have Gen Z

and they will not answer their phones, nor will they text you back. I have a Gen Z stepdaughter. She doesn't use text. So how are we going to find those buyers? Because 14%, that's an up and coming number when we get bigger. So where do we find them? it?

I think that's really important because the differences are real and the overlap, this is all theory on my end, when we talk about millennials moving into the housing market many, years ago, they were still had boomer parents involved. So you can't just abandon, this is what makes job for marketers difficult and CRM systems and how we should be thinking about this is,

a lot of those Gen Z buyers are not doing this solo. And they are still like, I some of the stats on the number of job interviews where Gen Z folks bring their parents either to the waiting room or ask if they can participate in the interview is wild. So you have to be able to speak both languages and make it available to whoever is part of the conversation like at that moment. It's just not as easy as stop doing this, start doing that.

it's really having to be discerning along the.

Speaker 1 (15:32.268)
Yeah, it's interesting that you, that's a really interesting tie in. If you think of Gen Z bringing their parents to a job interview, why would they not be involving them in their home searching process?

Yeah, to be clear as a parent, doesn't mean they're gonna listen to you, but they're definitely gonna be like, hey, mom and dad, maybe it's just because they were gonna ask for a little help here or there, but they use their parents, it seems like, what, I'm 44, what I used to use my friends for, which is like, hey, this is what I'm thinking, what do you think? And just the way that the world is now, it's like, I want my parents to be involved in this, even though I'm probably not gonna listen to them.

You

That's right. I'm the same generation you are and we kind of gut check with our friends. I wouldn't gut check most of my thoughts with my parents.

No, because my parents are boomers. Like they're out of touch. mean, I love them, but I'm not asking your opinion on that kind of thing. That's right. That's fast.

Speaker 1 (16:30.702)
It's something that you can't wait. It's happening now. So we need to really

And that also informs products. And builders continue to be nervous about creating smaller and more affordable product and who's gonna buy it, who's gonna wanna live in that. Pay attention everyone, cause it's gonna keep evolving.

Yeah, well, and there's going to be that trade off with size of home and home I can't afford. so, builders in a lot of markets, they are starting to respond to that and they're able to pivot and start building more densely and smaller. yeah, Gen Z they're here.

Yeah.

Okay, was that the last one or was that the second one? I think you have one more.

Speaker 1 (17:13.294)
So we started with interactive media. 79 % of buyers want a dynamic floor plan that's showing them where they are in home. And we're getting the engagement on those listings too. We talked through it with even Builder Showcase that those are the listings that are getting the most engagement. Gen Z buyers are here to stay. That number is gonna grow. And then lastly, what stood out to me in this year's Consumer Housing Trends Report was climate risk. It is...

Something, we were, I just moved to the mountains on 10 acres. You think we didn't think about wildfires when we moved in here and that was a huge consideration with the property that we ended up buying. And we learned that 83 % of buyers are thinking about some level of climate risk when they're searching for properties. And 49 % of them say it's extremely important in their home search. But again, this is kind of advantage builders, don't you think? Because builders, as opposed to resale,

They're building to mitigate a lot of these risks. now is their moment to shout these out, knowing that this is top of mind for so many buyers.

Yeah, the cost of retrofit exists. mean, that's the other thing that I see a lot of developers online on X or LinkedIn talking about is like, they don't build them like they used to and the most affordable housing is the housing that's already in place. And I'm like, kind of, but have you tried to retrofit a home in Southern California to be, you know, like prevent fire distribution the same way? Like it's not a trivial amount of expense.

Right. so just, yeah, lean into it. And I think the other thing is, I hate all kinds of politics, but if climate was historically a political or a like do the right thing conversation, it's now hitting people right in the wallet. So there is unavoidable costs and insurance and replacement costs. like, it's, I talked to a builder.

Speaker 2 (19:12.45)
maybe two or three months ago who said that the their insurance costs now has grown three times what it was before. And it's, when you add that into the buyability of that property, like holy smokes, does it dramatically change what you can afford? And there's no promise that it's gonna stay where it is either. Like everything else could stay the same, interest rates could go back down, and that insurance cost could continue to go up. So it's definitely on people's minds.

It is. I think that also just speaks to the education that builders can do on cost savings even after you close. So yes, you're going to have your monthly payment, which by ability can help you kind of sort those properties out. But then a new construction home, you're eliminating a lot of costs that you might have in a resale home that just don't exist. And you've got warranties and all sorts of great things that help really keep those monthly costs in check too.

Yeah, I think warranties and post-closing service is going to continue to, if I had to guess and make myself, make an estimate, I would say in the next five years, that will become as important as almost anything else when it comes to new construction.

I agree. And especially as you're talking through these younger buyers, don't have their, they're maybe using parents for a down payment, but it's not like they've got this huge piggy bank that they can start pulling from to do massive renovations and landscaping work.

We have this dichotomy to go off on a little trail, this dichotomy of having things like YouTube where we can get unlimited amounts of information of how to do any task maintenance wise. And yet I love you, Brian, my brother-in-law. I go to his house this past weekend and for the last two weeks he's had a sign hanging on his pullout trash can that says do not use and he put another trash can next to it. I was like, Brian, what's going on with the trash can? I don't know how to fix it. Like I've gone in there and I've opened it and closed it and it just doesn't seem to work.

Speaker 2 (21:11.682)
Brian, it screws in like some wood and like we can do this. He's like, I'm waiting for an expert, but I just gotta get like, it's so hard to get people scheduled to cut. And so I just think he's older than I am. He's part of that generation that would be more likely to just do it themselves. And there is a lot of do it yourself, but there's something about do it yourself in homes that it seems like people are either wired for or they're not. And my own anecdotal experience is more people are wired to like, I don't wanna mess with that, then I'm gonna give it a shot.

Well, the risk is high if you screw up certain things, not a trash can, but. wouldn't really let my husband touch plumbing or electrical. just going to stick. We're going to use leave the experts to that.

That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (21:52.578)
Yeah, I've seen enough small fireballs when I do electrical work that I'm like, that's off my list. I almost killed myself twice. what data, talk to us about all the data that Zillow has available and how you make that available to builder partners and what they can do with it. A couple of years back, you all made some really intuitive, I thought, interactive tools related to data that you have available.

no, yeah, no more.

Speaker 2 (22:20.078)
Is that still around? Do people use it? Talk to me little bit about that.

You know, I wish builders knew that this existed at a larger scale. I think the most successful builders are using data, whether it be from Zillow or anywhere else to localize their strategies. We have a builder dashboard that's built specifically for our builder customers. So they can go in and they can monitor their community performance, all their engagement data for their specific campaigns.

But then beyond that, we have an abundance of data. There is so much. And I can share links with you, Kevin, too, after this. want to share those. So we've got the Consumer Housing Trends Report. It's probably the most widely used. Our economic research team a couple of years ago put together a new construction-specific dashboard where you can go in, you can see national trends, or you can dial it down into certain markets. But it's things like starts, permits, sales. The newest one is engaged shopper metrics.

But in the show notes.

Speaker 1 (23:18.958)
how and where are home shoppers on the site sharing and saving listings. So I think that one's pretty cool because you can start to forecast some really interesting things when you look at that heat map. And it's kind of a national map that shows you where the most engagement is. I think that's Yeah, I think that's a pretty cool data point. So that is all on this new construction dashboard. You can find articles about

such interesting topics on our economic research page, which is just zillow.com forward slash research. They do, they update it, I think, weekly, maybe even more than that with just great industry wide information. We've got dashboards where you can drill into zip code metrics. So there's just so many things. So I wish more builders knew about it and used it because it will definitely help.

So maybe it's because they're not using it or because they have blinders on, but what are the biggest misconceptions or misunderstandings that you're hearing or seeing builders? You just let you kind of do the dog head turn. You're like, huh? How'd you come up with that one? Where is that coming from?

You know, I don't know that it has anything to do with data specifically. I would say it has to do with leads. So if you think now, we actually know that buyers today are even more serious than they historically have been because there is a lot of noise in the marketplace. So if buyers are actually reaching out to you as a builder for more information, they're serious. It's a pretty high lead. What's really important, and I think what the opportunity is,

you can really learn a lot from a conversation and you've just had your summit last week talking about this is learn about that buyer, figure out where they are in the process, investigate, and then put them in the proper nurture campaign. And that is, really a, it's not a quantity over quality. It's really a, are you nurturing the leads that you do get? Because we know that they're, they're good leads.

Speaker 2 (25:24.566)
Yeah, exactly right. mean, if people are always talking about what are the forward looking indicators that I need to be paying attention to. And if your lead volume is going down and, and or appointment volume is going down, but the conversions are not balancing out, meaning that as one metrics going down, the other, the percentage conversion overall is an increasing, you've got a problem. Because by definition, it's always true what you just said. Yeah. The less leads you have,

the higher quality, higher intent those that are remaining due and your team should be like hitting home runs. this is where, this is across the industry broadly, is a pretty common thought process that I hear back from the builders who are hitting or just barely missing their sales goals is like every month it's the, did it. Like they just ran it, they just ran our sprint and they're like, we did it.

We don't know how, like, Kevin, you just won't believe it. Like we had made up numbers. We had, we only had 20 prospects this month, but we sold 10 houses. And I just, I don't know how much more that can continue. It can continue forever because that's how it's supposed to work. Right. And it doesn't feel as comfortable as being able to look and say, I had a thousand opportunities and I could miss a whole bunch of them. And I still got my 10, but that is how it works is that.

It's almost to your detriment if you have too much of that extra opportunity because by definition, someone somewhere on the team is wasting it.

That's right. That's right. So I think that is kind of the biggest misconception and you probably hear the exact same thing. It's like, this and that some, some excuse.

Speaker 2 (27:11.158)
Yeah, I, I the strongest reaction of the things that I talked about was a trick that I've used for a couple of years now, which is take the amount of web activity on a builder's website, find a correlation to a stadium that's of similar capacity and show a picture to your leadership team of this is the number of people like Ohio Stadium holds one hundred and two thousand people. If you had three hundred thousand units of traffic, show three of those stadiums full screen and be like

how much more attention do we need to sell 15 homes? What is the ratio here? And of course that leads into Zillow specifically and all the platforms that focus on home sales is like by definition, the audience is more qualified. And so it's a great place to be thinking about partnering with, but man, it's like, it is lead volume, but even before that, it's like how many people...

in your MSA could even afford what you sell. Like you should offer, man, no one's asking my opinion. Zillow would be, it'd be awesome if you're like reverse buyability. Like just so you know, we did the analysis and in central Ohio, Kevin, for Oakley Builders, you're a semi-custom custom builder that starts like at 800,000. There's only, you know, 120,000 in the entire market, whoever could buy your house if they were thinking about moving here.

Some kind of realization of like, yeah, builders have this idea that their market is infinite and there's an unlimited amount of humans thinking about making this change and they just haven't reached them yet. And I think that's, they go hand in hand with the lack of leads, attention is like attention and leads are not your problem. I promise you, it feels like they are, but you could hit your goals without more.

Mic drop moment.

Speaker 2 (29:03.886)
Okay, what's some bright spots? Like markets where the data seems to be showing that there is kind of above average interest or opportunities.

Yeah, we're if we're talking biggest opportunities for builders It's really interesting. There's not a national headline as you know, it's very market

Thank goodness, I'm so glad we're past that, because that was really boring.

Yes, now it's just like there could be a fire somewhere and everything else is perfect somewhere else. hey, I would say opportunities, the Midwest, always one of the most affordable areas. And there's still lag in supply outside of major kind of job areas like Chicago, still not as much supply is there to meet the demand. So definitely there's some opportunity in the Midwest.

In the Mountain West, is historically, it's tougher to build and it's very affordability constrained, but there are some markets. And I heard Orfeh, one of our senior economists mentioned it at our event a couple of weeks ago. He said Albuquerque was one of his favorite hotspot markets and Albuquerque is never on anybody's radar, right? But it is. It was recently named top market for college grads. there's a kind of a younger, more vibrant energy in growing markets.

Speaker 1 (30:25.184)
Albuquerque is one of them. Boise is another one. So, and Boise was interesting because it was a pan... Yeah, but it's another one that's just continuing to grow. So that's kind of your Mountain West story. And then the coasts are, there's challenges and opportunities in both, but it's harder to build in those coastal markets. It's also very expensive, but there's not enough.

Yeah, boom bust.

Speaker 2 (30:49.268)
It's interesting you talk about Albuquerque is one of our favorite builders is there and they will just if they haven't already heard that whenever they do hear that they're just going to roll their eyes not because the data is not true. They know people want to live there and they know it's a great place to live. But the difficulty that they have locally with the government getting permits and approvals and keeping costs anywhere near in line homeless challenges drug use challenges.

like where all of those young hip people wanna live, it is also causing this opportunity where there's always this tension of infill versus expanding the suburbs. And I think that's where even when the data is showing like Albuquerque should be a great place, there's this other dynamic of like, you, yeah, that's super interesting. I believe it, because I love Albuquerque too. And it has land.

like in every direction you look and you're like, land shouldn't be the reason we're not building. What is, why aren't we doing more?

room.

Speaker 1 (31:53.876)
Right. And even markets though, like your super, super unaffordable markets like Southern California is one that consistently is popping up is there's just the prices continue to rise because there's just you can't build and there's not enough housing for to meet the demand. So it's it's a problem everywhere.

Yeah, and just in case someone, this is the first time you've ever heard market-proof marketing, we know that there's a lack of housing, but the lack of housing is around affordable housing for people. there's like, we don't have millions and millions and millions of people on the street in every major market. Like that's not what we're talking about, but what's missing, the question is like, how do we make that appear? Cause right now it seems like a magical.

a fantasy creature at times. me just say the word affordable house. It's getting tougher, not easier, which means there is opportunity for someone to figure it out. Okay, stretch. We've gotten this far without talking like in depth about AI, but what's the things again, as a public company that you can talk about. How do you see Zillow thinking about AI and how it can help both your

your consumers, which is like the most important thing. And then the builders who want to reach those consumers.

Yeah, AI. we'd go out. always think about AI is like in the DNA of Zillow. It's we're hitting our 20 year birthday next year, early next year, which is wild. so AI kind of kicked off this estimate, which is where it all started. everything from here on out will be AI powered in some way. if you think about, we talked about builder showcase, most of that immersive interactive experience is AI driven.

Speaker 1 (33:42.858)
And we talked a little bit about how properties are surface to buyers. Well, that is all personal. So my experience on Zillow is going to be different than yours, even if we're in the same market. is what is serving properties that we think you're going to like or what I'm going to like as we're searching. That's all AI driven. I think about natural language search, which again, is something I wish more people even knew existed on Zillow. So you don't have to do that rigid like,

three bed, two bath, and then use all the filters. You can talk like you would talk to Google or GBT maybe. So it's just that conversational style. And you can even speak into the app instead of typing into it. That's all AI driven. Viability is AI driven. And by the way, this week we announced our new integration with ChatGBT. So very straight to the source.

As soon as I saw that too, I was like, of course, because I remember hearing Rich and others talk about like how important the iPad app and being part of that announcement with one of the original apps for the iPad. And it just makes sense too, because so much of what you do is map based and a bigger screen is more helpful at times. So when I saw the map get pulled in to chat GPT, I was like, yeah, I mean.

I was still happy to see it, but also I was not surprised. was like, of course, like they're gonna make sure that they're, that's, I've said this for as long as I can remember. Zillow is always doing something. Like you said, it's never boring. Like the industry itself wouldn't allow anyone to be boring and stay relevant, but also the continual like, let's keep pushing is, that's just, that is core to how you all work. So yeah, I think that's,

And that opens up all kinds of different questions we're not gonna dig into, but like once data is in ChatGPT or accessible in ChatGPT, just, know, after you listen to this episode, just hit pause, find a nice drink and sit in a chair for an hour. And I promise you, you're gonna come up with a whole bunch of questions about what that means and where it could go, which is all super interesting to think about. Okay, so.

Speaker 1 (35:55.02)
I agree. It's really cool to be with a company that wants to be on the forefront. It's like, we're not away from it. We're leaning into it because also that's where consumers are. And so everything that we do leads back to that, that point. So.

Yeah, yeah, exactly right. Yeah. Well, we're here to help you not to sell you. That's what you heard at top of the show at the end of the show. But, you know, I'm sure you have a perspective. There's no shortage. I I feel like visualization companies and syndication platforms are just what are those things from Star Trek? I didn't watch Star Trek, but those things that like evolve tribbles like rabbits. It's like I've made a new one.

And they just keep multiplying. So can you provide some clarity for everyone of like, what is it that sets Zilla apart as the best?

You know, I think what it all comes down to is the audience. We are a trusted brand, 243 million unique users per month. I love that Zillow is more Googled than real estate as a search term. It just shows the power of the brand and the trust that we've built with the consumer audience. And, you know, we're laser focused on continuing to iterate and to make that shopping experience more seamless for buyers. And I think that shows up every day.

That's awesome. And you said how many? 200 million?

Speaker 1 (37:24.014)
243 million unique users per month.

Okay, so the current estimate that I see here, I just like to get people something else to grab onto that that number means. So the entire population of Japan is 123 million. The entire population of Mexico, this can't be right. This must be in a different, no? Yeah, 131 million. you've got an entire country, it's in the top 10.

The users of Zillow as their own country would be in the top 10 in size in the world. Like it's pretty incredible.

Great, and Alec, it's great to give you something to bite on with that. It's a big honor.

Yeah, awesome. Well, Kedra, we know that you're busy and there's a lot going on at Zill all the time, but thanks for stopping by and giving everyone a peek behind the curtain on what's new.

Speaker 1 (38:19.704)
Thanks so much for having me. It's always a pleasure. We should do this more. Thanks Kevin.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:28.322)
Thanks for joining us for another episode of

episode of Market Proof Market. Can't wait for the next.

Speaker 2 (38:39.682)
Which is one.

of content not shared

Speaker 1 (38:53.196)
members.d you convert.com to join all. Beth, Julie, Pinsky and their castmates are solely their own. Now get to work and make sure your company is market proof.

opinions expressed by Kevin Oakley, Russell Jarnigan, Jackie