You're listening to the Loving BDSM podcast, episode
four fifty eight. Kayla Lords here with the
one, the only, the I'm glad it's not
just me that's sweating my ass off No.
John Brownstone. And I'm I'm gonna apologize to
everybody right now upfront.
Sorry.
Sorry for what? I am exhausted. I know.
You yawned through our last recording. I I
had
a couple of long
busy days Mhmm. And they've caught up to
me. Yeah. They have. Yeah. They have. I
had to, get somebody off the couch and
remind them we were supposed to be doing
this whole, like,
podcast thing we did. Well, she came to
me and said, I gotta take a shower
before we do this. And I was like,
great. I lay down. Lola came up next
with me and, took a power nap.
Yeah. So this ought to be interesting.
Anywho.
So it, it actually works out that this
week's topic,
JB let me unilaterally pick, and he let
me not really tell him what it was
about because it was a thing that happened
to me
that I haven't even told him yet, so
he gets to have a first reaction.
Oh, goodness. First saddest reaction. My goodness. And
I and I can't even read it in
the notes.
No. Because I didn't I didn't write it
down in the notes. The thing that happened.
No. Actually, I think I did write it
down in the notes. Either way. Either way.
Anyhoo. Anyway, but we are revisiting
a topic we did last back in 2020,
and that is,
dealing with shame in your in your kink
life, in your kink self. That's what we're
talking about. Welcome to the Loving BDSM podcast.
If this is your first time listening, glad
to have you. If you're back for another
week, welcome back. Loving BDSM is produced every
Monday and Friday for your kinky pleasure in
education, and show notes are found at lovingbdsm.net.
Come back often and feel free to add
the podcast to your favorite podcast app. You
can also follow the show on FetLife at
loving BDSM
PC, that stands for podcast,
on Instagram and technically threads at that handle,
I will forever motherfucking hate
with the passion of a thousand fiery suns.
It's loving d s on the number one.
It's the dumbest handle ever.
At loving d s one. Before anybody goes,
you can change it, not to what I
want. That is the problem. Anyway,
on blue sky at lovingbdsm.
Blah blah blah or on YouTube at youtube.com/lovingbdsm,
where you can watch us live stream the
podcast every Wednesday. All links are in the
show notes.
Okay. Before we get into this week's topic,
we have two announcements,
and I wrote them down
with no notes, so I better get this
right.
Oh, all three things with no notes. I
better get this right. Okay. We're all dogging
it.
Yes.
Very much so.
This Friday, October 17 is our Friday night
livestream, our virtual munch, our let's get silly,
where we just talk about all the nostalgic
things from, like,
and all the food. We've already established the
superior bacon is the crunchy bacon. We don't
have to go over this again. It just
is. Okay?
Jamie's face. Man, folks, come on. We we
need more of y'all that like the floppy
bacon. Oh, god.
Come on. We
we we gotta stand together with this. Your
bacon should not slop.
God.
Ew. Anyway,
that does come up. Our our views on
bacon are sometimes part of the conversation.
But we answer kinky questions.
We just hang out. We can be great
background noise if you're like,
I don't I don't wanna participate in the
live chat. You don't have to.
So that's coming Friday, 09:30PM
eastern, October 17. For podcast listeners, that is
the day this episode comes out.
Second announcement.
The Wood Dom on Etsy, which is JB's
vanilla
shop,
where he his he shows off his woodworking,
and he has pretty things
and nice things and helpful things and cute
things and things. Great gift things as well.
Things like this. Which only Things like that.
I'm so sorry, podcast listeners. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
JB's holding up a gorgeous pin that I
have not put on the Etsy shop yet
and pointing to one of our Halloween decorations.
Anyway, we're having a sale over there. Mhmm.
The Halloween decorations are,
slightly larger percentage off. It's the first time
you've ever done that. Mhmm. We're trying a
new thing. And then everything else is 10%
off. There are things that have free shipping
I will be adding more things to the
shop over the course of the next couple
of days. The sale runs through the October,
so you got time.
Getting ready for holidays, gift giving, whatever. You
just want something cute for yourself. There you
go. The WoodDumb on Etsy. Links are in
the places.
Ta da.
Okay. I just bumped the mic. I'm so
sorry. Yes. Yes. Silent. It is a very
nice pin.
Those with southern accents know. And they get
it. And they heard me. And they understood
me. And really that's what language is. Did
I communicate? And did you know what I
meant? You did.
Okay. Anyway,
last thing before I get to the topic.
This week's,
trans affirming care resource,
is called strands for trans, s t r
a n d s, Strands, as in strands
of hair.
It is actually a place where if you
own a, like, a hair salon or you
are a person who does hair and you
welcome and affirm and respect trans people and
you want them to know that they can
come there and be safe and get their
hair done, you add yourself
registry. It also the reason it counts for
for our purposes and why it's one of
my resources,
it allows you to look up
what salons in
your general area or within a multi mile
radius,
are on the list.
And I did that for our area, and
there were three
in town, and then there were several,
forty five minutes sort of North ish of
us in Gainesville. And then I I kept
scrolling through the list, and I got even
more. I could go to Leesburg. If you
know, you know. I could go go to
DeLand. I could go to all kinds of
places.
I'm gonna say, so if you are a
person who
is a hairstylist or run a salon or
you know somebody who does and you know
they're affirming,
great.
Get them on the get yourself on the
list. You never know who might be Mhmm.
Using that.
I cannot speak for anybody else who uses
this resource,
but I did learn a thing, and I'm
gonna pass it along for anybody who might
find it
helpful.
It is not enough for us I for
me. For me, I am one human, and
I'm not even trans. Okay?
It is not enough for me to see
a name on a list
that's supposed to be trans affirming. If I
go to your website and you say nothing
about LGBTQ,
about gender neutrality, about respecting all people,
it it
so for anybody who's gonna use the resource,
you should still do your research
on the places that you happen to find
in your area.
And I did. And my short list is
based on who made it very clear. Like,
I'm not just I'm not just gonna say
I support trans people, I'm gonna show it.
And
that that does make a difference. And I'm
one person, but I know it made a
difference to me. Because when
I'm helping out the person in my life,
I'm only gonna take them to places where
I think they have a reasonable
expectation of safety.
See.
But strands for trans for anybody who wants
to be on that list because you own
a salon or you work at a salon,
or
you, are trying to get your hair done
and you wanna go to their a place
that's gonna, you know, be affirming and safe.
But just no guarantees. Do still do your
research. Anyway, link in the places. Okay.
Okay. Now I after all that, I need
a sip of my diet Coke.
Y'all I'm doing this and I'm only partially
caffeinated for the day.
It's
just
it just is. Okay.
What am I saying? I don't know. I
think I was responding to a thought that
I did not say out loud.
That's gonna be a problem for this
episode. Okay.
We have done,
an episode on shame before back in
twenty fucking twenty. That is a lifetime ago
at this point.
It was episode two thirty six. Years ago.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was episode two thirty
six. I've linked it in the places for
anybody who's never
watched or listened to that episode or wants
a refresh. In that episode, we focused on
talking about shame in terms of body image,
sexuality, kink, the the things we might feel
shame about even though
we ought not to, but we still do.
This one
is more about what to do about it
once you realize, oh, like, what shame can
kind of manifest as what it can kind
of look like that's not just that deep
yucky feeling of, oh my god. Can I
curl up and die right now?
Metaphorically speaking. And then some suggestions that I
saw in enough places to think, okay. This
might be decent information on, well, what the
fuck do I do with this sense of
shame and how do I, like, overcome it.
Right? But
let me
talk to you about how we got here.
And this is the thing, I have not
told Jamie yet. It's a small thing, really.
But
considering some of the conversations we have around
here, I think it's a little meaningful.
So I this happened while I was reading
the first book in a series, which is
a delightful series, that's very realistic with kink.
It's Leather and Lattes is the Series by
Katherine MacIntyre.
Y'all, it's set in a kinky coffee shop
that also has a dungeon attached.
Those people are living the dream. Right? Wow.
Like I don't like contemporary most of the
time, but that I I made some exceptions
for that.
And it's very inclusive of gender identity and
sexuality, and I like that part as well.
Anyway,
every book's about a different couple, and it's
very
the kink is so realistic in such a
good way. I love this series, and I'm
sad
that the next book doesn't come out till
next year. But I was reading the first
book. I think it's called Immersion Play. I
think that's what the first book is called.
Are did you start it after I recommended
it? I can't find it. I'll point
it out for you. Anyway, that in that
book, the two main characters, our love interest
is daddy Dom,
who,
doesn't get to be a daddy very often.
It's a very,
deep connection for him when, you know, he
he's trying to avoid love and relationships so
he doesn't daddy dom very much.
But he's met this guy who
his defense mechanism is to brat.
And I mean, outside of a kink context,
it's not bratting. It's just, you know, being
snarky, being mouthy, whatever whatever. Right?
And so we get all of the angst
of them figuring out their shit and coming
together and blah blah blah.
But in the middle of I don't even
remember what part it was. But I'm reading
this book and I'm I'm loving all the
characters. That that's not a big deal. But
I'm reading this brat
and I'm having this these thoughts of
that. Oh, wow. Oh, wow.
I wish I could do that, or I
wish I did that, or
what would that be like to be that
kind of brat now? If you were not
new here, you know how I
am staunchly
in the camp of I do not identify
as a brat, and I don't. I really
don't still to this day.
But I'm
what's the word I want?
Self aware enough that I will do I
will do the look within kind of thing
when I realize
that some part of me is wishing for
something that I've usually, like, don't want, can't
imagine, have, like,
adamantly
said hell no to.
So I did that.
And the and I thought about in the
context of this character and what bratting looked
like for them. Right? And how I view
bratting
from my own, like, my own lens of
it. Right?
And I thought, god. What would it be
like to just
tell JB no in a playful way or
make me in a playful way or to
not do a thing,
hopefully in a playful way.
And the the immediate visceral reaction was fear.
And I went, oh, that was
that was a big feeling. Like, at this
point, I'm I've put the look aside. I'm
in my fucking head. We're we're doing the
work. And I went, god, where did that
feeling come
from? And part of what I circle back
to when I think about bratting is I
how desperately I want to be obedient and
a good girl. And I went, okay. But
where does where's that coming from?
Which I know where that's coming from. That
is between me and a future therapist. Thank
you very much. I I know.
But, I mean, it, like, knocked me off
kilter for, like, a good twenty four hours
because I was like,
I don't
want I don't really want to brat. Like,
it doesn't
appeal to me that much. But also,
if I'm thinking about why I reject it
and the and I imagine myself doing it
and my first
my response is not, oh, I just don't
like that. It is this, like, gut response
of, oh, no. I am bad if I
have done that. Like, that comes from a
place. Right?
Go ahead. Now, I you know, you're saying
this and I and first thing that comes
to my mind,
you know,
yeah, yeah, I I know you you you
you push that line.
You push that line hard sometimes.
Mhmm.
And,
you know, it's you say it's not something
you would wanna do on a rip. What
if it was a part of a scene?
I don't know. You would have to, like,
be prepared for me to have to, like,
nope out of the scene midway because the
feelings were too strong. Like, I you know,
it's one of those things where you can
know why you do a thing or don't
do a thing. You can know where the
feelings come from. You can under I intellectualize
my feelings very well, and I psychoanalyze myself
all the time, and I'm way too fucking
introspective.
I know the why. Right? I know that
the goal would be
to not be held back by the why
and just
try the thing out to, like, not have
the fear or to be able to move
through the fear. Because sometimes you can't make
yourself not be scared. You just gotta
do it scared. Right?
And
I
I know all of that, but that is
not enough. Like, there's not on different things,
not just about this, which brought up the
topic of shame for for me.
Also my Instagram algorithm
brought up some stuff
that made me go, oh, yeah. That's right.
This is all about shame. Maybe we need
to talk about shame.
But knowing
what your air quotes air quote is supposed
to do
or what you could do and how you
air quote should be, and be careful, we
do not should all over ourselves over here.
It's usually not very healthy.
Does not make that
Doesn't mean that it's possible. Doesn't mean that
I can just wake up with that knowledge
and go, oh, yeah. What I should do
is just take up space and just do
the things that scare me. And
sometimes, yeah. I've done things that scare me.
But some things are so deep rooted Mhmm.
That it is and this is gonna come
up later when we're talking about shame. One
of the ways to work through shame is
to seek professional help.
A therapist
who is, you know, informed and has the
ability to, like, offer those kinds of whatever
whatever whatever's that you might need that might
be beneficial. And it's, like,
that's how because I know where it comes
from. And I'm not getting into that here.
That's Mhmm. But I know where that comes
from. And that's not a oh, I'll just
do the thing scared.
That is way too visceral
of a it's too deep rooted
because it's become
and this is where, man, shame really fucking
sucks because it can but it's can start
to feel like a piece of your identity
of why you do things or why you
don't do things or how you are. And
it that's just I mean,
some things you just don't wake up on
the next day and go, sure. I can
do that now.
Let's just like, it's just maybe somebody else
out there can, but
I'm gonna need drugs and a medical professional
is all I'm saying.
So that that was the the thing that,
like, made me think not think about bratting.
Although I have had thoughts on that. I
have noticed myself doing some things and I'm
like, goddamn it. I think that
that's not just toe in the line.
Like,
do I know that it kind of makes
you a little nuts when I move a
lot while you're trying to put on my
collar? Mhmm. Yeah. Did I
absolutely enjoy your response this morning when you
yanked me? And I was like, yep. That's
what I was going for. And then when,
oh my god. That's what I was going
for.
So I think I have it in me.
We have,
enough of
trust and safety within our relationship where if
I wanted to yeah. I don't think I'm
able to on a conscious level. I don't
think I can think about what I'm doing
Gotcha. Without
all the other stuff coming up.
So
that was the inciting incident. That was the
thing that made me go,
woah. Because
Now I'm very curious to read this. You
need to read I think I think you'll
enjoy the whole damn series. That's all I'm
saying.
And it, you know, it was both the
I can't believe I kind of wish I
was doing this, could do this, would behave
this way, have this kind of fun.
But also I recognize and this is a
thing where it's one of the many reasons
we're, like, please don't use kink books
and fiction as your how to manual.
Because the thing is the safety of of
a book of of a work of fiction
where, like, in this case, it's romance. I
know what the fucking outcome is. That's why
I read it. I mean, I read for
the smut and the sex and that's one
too. But, like, my anxiety does not spike
if I know these two fuckers are gonna
end up together and then I don't know
how we're getting there. But I know they're
so I know that
this is a safe space for exploration. I
also know, as the reader,
I've gotten all the context clues of why
this person does this, why this person is
that, who this person is that they haven't
told their partner yet, and who the daddy
dumb is that he hasn't explained to his
partner yet. And you get all of you
already know that as the reader, so there's
this very sort of omniscient kind of thing
of, well, I'm looking at bratting in, like,
a very
specific box. Right, of knowing that it's safe.
You know what the reactions are gonna be
because you read the context clues. You know,
it's not like being out in the real
world where
you can plan for every eventuality and still
say the wrong thing or do something at
the wrong moment or have you know, there
can still be unexpected
reactions. Right?
So, you know, there's something to be said
for for
for any kind of sex or kink thing.
Sometimes for some people it needs to stay
fantasy because you can indulge in the fantasy
in a very safe environment
where you don't have to deal with any
of the unexpected
weird or just human shit that comes up
and it's, like, tied up in a bow
packaged really nicely.
So I'm not saying, oh, I wanna be
a brat. Like, I'm not I'm not there
at this point. But it did feel weird
to realize I was enjoying
and kind of like inserting myself a little
bit and going, oh, what would that be
But the important part for everybody who's gonna
be like, oh, no. You're really a brat
and here it is. Here's for for this
discussion, the important part, the thing that stayed
with me was
the feelings it the idea of trying it
myself
invoked. That there was something there because I
if you had asked me prior to that,
if after god. I've known I was kinky
since, what, 2012. You and I have been
together since 2013.
You know, if you ask me if I
feel any sense of shame over kinks or
anything I do or
not at all. Like, I'm I'm comfortable with
who I am. I know I'm safe with
JB. I try what I wanna try, and
I don't do what I don't wanna do.
And there's
you know, I never had that sense of
shame over, oh my gosh. I'm a submissive.
What does this say about like, I never
had that.
And so that was the other important thing
that it felt important was that
you can be in an established relationship and
know yourself really well
and think that you're really confident and comfortable
and whatever with whatever your kinks are, whatever
your life looks like, and something can still
fucking hit you like
a ton of bricks. And this was mine.
I
didn't didn't expect it. I didn't expect
it.
So then the Instagram algorithm apparently has been
reading my Kindle,
and it brought it started bringing up content
about shame. And I was like, I didn't
even say the word out loud. So it's
not listening.
You know, I'm sure my FBI agent is,
like, traumatized, but
but I started getting content fed to me
about shame. Now I do get a lot
of content about,
therapy and psychology because that is one of
my interests.
So I'm sure that's where it came from.
But I saved them because I was like,
oh, wait. We have to talk about these.
Not because this relates back to
my experience of the brouting. I mean, that
was the thing that triggered it. Now we're
talking about shame. Mhmm. Before we get into
that,
what say you
about the revelation? About what we will What
do you talk about? Before we get into
what shame can look like or feel like?
I I think it's
a natural evolution for you.
Okay.
Okay. Because, you know, you
you know,
you're you're so close to being there.
And I look. Look.
I I would love to live in denial.
I have done that a few times, but
I I will be
completely fucking honest. There have been a couple
of times lately where we've had a moment
and I've walked away and and it's it's
been thoughts I've had that I haven't things
I haven't said out loud. And I've gone,
holy shit. That there's no way that wasn't
a brat moment. And I might have even
said it
the other day. Something happened.
I don't know if I wiggled my ass.
I don't know. But I did something so
that you would pay attention to my ass.
And so then you went there for
smack it. Mhmm. But did I ask for
what I needed? No. Nope. Was I sassy
and snarky? Absoloc and lutely.
And so I got the response I wanted,
and I walked away thinking
that worked. And then I went,
what is happening? So when I go through
And then what happened this morning? I know.
It's just saying that. When I do go
through the evolution of okay. Maybe I'm a
brat. Yeah. That'll be a fucking episode. Don't
worry. Okay.
So this morning,
I
did not wanna get out of bed.
Just jitting it all.
And Jamie came in when he was ready
to, like, start making his breakfast. He comes
in, he gets his iPad. He you know,
Onyx eats her food in our room most
days. So he's getting the cat dish and
we have a sort of a new routine
where he'll come and he'll, like, I'll get
my morning hug and we have a moment
to just connect and it's delightful.
Well, as he kind of I don't know,
you were walking away or you we were
done with our little hug. I rolled over.
I'm naked, y'all. I rolled over and, like,
popped my hip out so my ass hopefully
looked enticing in the dark
with somebody who was not thinking about, you
know,
nude,
you know, submissives in their ass.
And he he started opening the door, and
I went, hey.
What the hell?
He goes, what? I'm like, I
my ass is just hanging out here. What
the hell? And what did you do? Go
ahead. Tell him what you did.
And I rolled her over on her back,
spread her legs,
and spanked her there. Yeah. I was like,
no. That's not what how this was supposed
to take. You don't always get what you
want.
And I am self aware enough to know,
absolutely, that's bratting. I I don't
it's not happening with any conscious thought, though.
And it is happening over things we have
not done in a long time and I
really I gotta do some deep diving into
myself before that's a topic. That is not
what this episode is about.
So yeah. I know. I mean,
I'm not
ridiculous enough to think that you probably have
not
seen it or figured it out or
whatever the problem is. And then here's an
here's another thing. Here's a little bit why
I don't wanna brat.
Because
this sadistic motherfucker,
literally, I'm a mother. He fucks me.
Will do the absolute opposite. If I don't
just ask for what I want and then
wait patiently for it, I will not get
what I want. So where is the incentive
for that? I would just be thwarted
all the fucking time.
And I will say the fight, the push
pull of that, I don't usually find anything
enjoyable about that. I want what the fuck
I want. Yeah. Like why am I gonna
do things that I know mean I won't
get what I want? Like
but, anyway, that's a whole different topic. We
are completely off topic now.
So
I have this thing realizing, oh my god.
I'm feeling it's a sense of shame. It's
the fear. It's this or that. And then
Instagram algorithm serves me up stuff about shame,
and so I saved some of it. K.
And there's two posts that were kind of
a back to back from a therapist. Now,
let me do a disclaimer here. Okay?
It is very we all know,
you know, the Internet and social media especially
is where nuance goes to die. Okay?
We know that. We also know that there
are people, and if you don't know, now
you do. There are absolutely people who will
just post the most batshit crazy stuff
because they want the clicks, the views, the
money that comes with that, whatever whatever.
So when you come across
therapy kind of speaks, psychology, pop psychology, you
gotta take that shit with a grain of
salt. Okay?
Now the thing I'm gonna say about this
content is something that it's taken me a
long time to wrap my head around. It
led to a lot of confusion for me
trying to figure out who the fuck I
am when the Internet was actually not being
helpful, which is
things that in this case will be identified
as based on shame
could also be based on something else. Right?
We things overlap all the time. Your reasons
why you do a thing overlap with other
reasons out there. The way humans respond to
different things can be similar but have different,
you know, entry points, have different starting points,
but they're not always all the same. Okay?
And then, of course, humans have this great
ability to defy all of the air quote
rules and behave in a completely different way
than anything anybody can list. It's all
very personal. It's all very nuances, all all
very dependent on you and your situation and
who you are and blah blah blah blah.
Right? So to the extent that you can,
realize that some of this might sound like
you and it might not be shame. Or
some things you'll be like, I know I
do things that are shame and you're not
listening to them. That makes sense too. Okay?
That's my PSA about letting the Internet diagnose
you with shit. Okay. So
things I didn't realize were actually shame. I'm
not gonna read every single one of them,
but here are
some that I recognize.
Lola agrees.
Avoiding eye contact because you feel exposed,
Brushing off compliments instead of taking them in.
Feeling guilty when you rest.
Staying quiet even when you have something to
say. Do you see if that that one
right there could have multiple reasons why
why you might do that. Right? Over explaining
so no one misunderstands you. Oversharing the hardest
part so people can leave before you're attached.
That absolutely came up in at least one
or two of the books in that series.
Lola agrees.
Downplaying your wins so you don't stand out.
Let's say,
replaying conversations in your head worrying you said
the wrong thing.
Overpreparing
so you don't fail.
Over analyzing texts and conversations. And here's the
thing,
that can be from anxiety. That can be
from other things. So be careful with some
of this.
Alola agrees.
Being hyper aware of how you come across,
needing constant reassurance from others.
And then I found this other one.
Shame on the inside versus outside. Like, what
you do outwardly and how you feel inside.
Inside.
Chronic self criticism.
Believing love must be earned. It must not.
But I I get the thinking somebody would
have because I was like, I mean, yeah.
But also what? No. Anyway, fear of rejection,
guilt, feeling flawed or broken,
extreme sensitivity to perceived criticism or disapproval,
a lot of the avoiding eye contact. And
I'm like, yeah. But there are other reasons
to avoid eye contact, so this is where
there's no nuance. Right?
Outwardly,
masking emotions,
over apologizing,
people pleasing,
extreme independence,
which kinda makes sense because if you're like,
I can't let you see me
need anything, and I can't trust you to
be there for me. But again, that can
come from other things. Right? Right. Overexplaining or
justifying oneself, self deprecating humor as a shield,
shutting down or withdrawing when feeling emotionally exposed.
I don't know what you're talking about with
that.
So when that came up, I was like,
fucking hell. We gotta talk about Shane.
So
that's
that's what we're doing here. Here. I what
I did when I realized we'd had the
twenty twenty episode, I was like, well, that's
a long fucking time. And shame is not
a new concept. It's been,
you know, studied and discussed and whatever whatever
well before 2020. So I was like, okay.
What's what's been going on in the past
five years? What are how are people talking
about it now? And I did find several
resources,
including a study,
that looked at sexual shame specifically.
And that was, you know, when you when
you do a Google search for,
like, general shame, you get
general answers. Mhmm. Sexual shame, you get more
specific answers, but still didn't quite fit in
with, you know, shame over,
you know, kinks that you
might have or your feelings about kinks or,
you know, your feelings about your kink identity.
Right? So it's a lot of, as usual,
extrapolation
and,
trying to
kind of piece it together,
and when necessary,
seeking professional help.
So here, I've got the links in the
places to all this if you wanna take
a look at it. But here, I've got
notes. I gotta read them. Bear with me.
So,
one of the things is shame,
feeling like exposure and vulnerability,
truly being seen.
And,
yes.
And
I find this ironic because
prior to this moment,
I would have been like, oh, I love
JBC
every bit of me. The good, bad, ugly.
He has seen me in
some things I I wish nobody could, you
know, see me as or see who I
am.
And yet,
I still do have that.
I I feel like ripped open, flayed as
if like it's everything's exposed and you're gonna
see the real me. And I don't have
the sense of, oh, he's not gonna like
it. I get the sense, like your childhood
trauma, of, oh, I am bad.
Because that's the thing. Shame and guilt get
conflated.
Shame is,
I did a bad thing.
No. I'm sorry. Guilt is goddamn it. Guilt
is I did a bad thing. Shame is
I am bad.
That's a very
not nuanced
binary way of thinking about them and separating
them. Guilt is actually a good thing to
a certain extent. If you did a bad
thing, please feel bad about it and then
do what you can to repair. Right?
Shame though is very internalized.
It's very identity driven and it's
I can't imagine a scenario where it is
helpful.
And that that is a thing that I
have noticed when there are parts of myself
that I'm like, god, I wish I just
had the confidence to just do that, be
that, whatever.
And when I let myself think deeper, it
comes out as I am bad. And I
don't I don't want you to see that
I am bad. I'm not bad. I'm perfectly
fine to the extent anybody can be in
2025.
How does that resonate? Not my feelings, but
Mhmm. That shame being as truly being seen,
afraid to be seen, having feelings about like,
do you does that resonate with any of
your own experiences? Yes.
Oh, yes. Absolutely.
And,
even now sometimes as much as we have,
you know,
our relationship that we have that we talk
about so many things, sometimes there are things
that are are difficult for me to bring
up too
for that reason.
So,
you know, I I think it's something that
can affect anybody. Oh, of course. Of course.
And for a multitude of reasons. Somebody in
live chat, you know, pointed out religious
Shane from,
religious teachings or upbringing
about kinks, about sex, sex, about fucking anything.
Yeah. The people I see online who talk
about kind of deconstructing
their religious upbringing and what they were sort
of taught and
whatever.
Yeah. I I can I can see where
that would be very tough?
Is there anything that you're willing to share
where you've had those moments that whether they're
kink related or relationship related, anything
where that still kinda comes up for you?
Not not off the top of my head.
No.
I'm gonna
I know you'll tell me, I don't wanna
fucking talk about that, so feel free.
When you
realize that
what that you,
are depressed, you have depression. Mhmm.
Especially because I know we've kinda had conversations
where you're like, oh, I oh, oh, that's
how I've been feeling or that's where it
comes from or
when that initially happened for you,
was that a thing where you kind of,
like, I did with submission.
Oh, okay. It makes sense. Or did it
lead to
down the road that could lead to shame?
It was it was for me,
that
was a slow burn. Mhmm.
Okay?
You know, with
with kink, it was like a a light
bulb moment. Right. Okay. And then you were
shamed by other people for for it. We
talked about that in that twenty twenty episode.
Right.
Shit.
The reason I ask is you have moments
where you're being vulnerable with me Mhmm.
Where you kind of remind me of you
make me think of what you probably were
like
you make me think of your inner child
of little JB who should have had people
protect him and love him.
And you kind of have this
you've never said it,
but you've got this air of, am I
bad? Did that happen because I'm and that's
a shame kind of feeling. And I don't
want you to feel like that, and I'd
like to kick the ass of everybody who
ever made you feel like it Anybody bad?
But it I know it can still be
there. That comes from
a mother
who
consistently
told me I was bad My and that
I was gonna be struck down.
That religious
bullshit'll fuck you up.
So that's that's where that came from with
me. But that's what I'm saying. Some of
that gets internalized even if you don't want
it to be. Even if You know, now,
at fucking 64 years old,
I look back and I'm like, okay. She
told me consistently
how bad I was how bad I was.
So I I did what she expected of
me. You did just you did just And
and I became a bad kid.
I did. And and Yeah. Self fulfilling prophecy.
Pretty much. If if I am this, then
I would be I was treated as being
bad Right. Even if I wasn't. So I
became bad because that's what was expected of
me. Right. Yeah. Self fulfilling prophecy. Right. For
sure. For sure. Like I said, do I
wish I could, like,
physically harm the people Yeah. That treated you
poorly?
Yes. I would love to go back. And
that that's what I've used the time machine
for. Yeah. But, you know, with with with
with my depression and and a lot of
the realizations
that have have come along with it
since since I've been diagnosed, and I know
what is happening with me,
For me,
the the shame
that I feel with that,
is like,
oh my god, this is something I have
probably dealt with all my life,
did not realize it, I I buried it
somehow and managed to to function.
Yeah. Yeah. And and and there are times
I find myself
asking myself about the,
certain situations.
The way I
see them and
and experience them and perceive them, was that
me
or was it
the depression? Mhmm. Mhmm.
Because I I have come to
realize,
when I hit my lows,
the bad talk that goes on Sure. Oh,
yeah.
Okay. And it's not always just,
about me. Mhmm.
And,
you know, I have to ask myself,
how many
things throughout
my life had been skewed because of the
depression?
Mhmm. That's where my shame
comes from with it. Wish I had a
magic wand. I know. But you don't have
to feel shame. I know. Because there's nothing
shameful in that. There's
there is nothing shameful. You are not bad.
You did not do life wrong.
None of that.
But it is very easy for me to
say it and a completely different thing for
you to internal
Whether that's to get angry at the way
you were treated at the things that led
you there.
To,
you know, have whatever other feelings you might
have Mhmm. About
all of it.
Let me just interject here because
the thing I was about to say was,
and that is what a great therapist can
help with.
Wait. We blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
We have linked in the places
to a link we use all the time.
We recommend all the time, Kinkaware Professionals,
so that you can look in your basic
area.
If you're looking for a therapist or if
you're looking for like any other kind of
service professional, then you want them to be
Kinkaware. Yeah. So anybody who is resonating with
this and you're like, yeah, where the fuck
do I find one? And I can tell
them I am kinky.
That might be a resource.
Yeah. I mean,
part of the reason I
have,
poured a little salt in that wound,
which is not was not my intention, but
to try and get you to talk about
it a little bit,
is more
dominance.
Need to see dominance
who are like, yes, I deal with depression.
Yes, I've had feelings of shame. Yes, I've
had to overcome all this,
and I am still a pretty decent fucking
dom. The most amazing dom ever, but he
won't say that about himself.
You know, like you I think you might
be a little biased, but thank you. Who
gives a fuck? It's my show and my
microphone.
Say what the fuck I wanna say.
And and that is also important. I think
that submissives
in general, if you tend to be an
introspective person or if you are getting therapy
and working through your you know, it's not
completely uncommon
in my experience with talking to kinksters for
it to feel like it's a lot of
submissives who are like, yeah. I'm I'm feeling
a sense of shame because I'm submissive. That's
usually from cis women. Right?
Or, you know,
I know I'm doing this because of that
or I've had to, like, grapple with these
feelings.
Again, it's not everybody, but it's just in
my experience. That's who I've seen having these
conversations about themselves and with themselves
is submissives.
And dominants
seem to think they gotta walk around all,
like, stoic
and stern and calm, cool, and collected. And
look, in a scene, I am down with
that shit.
You are still a fully formed human with
all of the bullshit that comes along with
that,
And you are not immune to these things.
Quite frankly, if regardless of your,
power dynamic and and your role,
you
know, it is extremely common. Most people do
push that shit down. Whatever you push down
will come out in other ways. You know?
It it will. Eventually, it will.
But,
you know,
I think sometimes we have I don't not
saying pushing anything down and repressing things is
good, actually. That's not what I'm saying. But
I do understand
sometimes having to kinda go, you have to
go this feeling has to go on the
fucking back burner because I gotta get through
life, and I gotta go to work, and
I gotta pay bills, I gotta raise kids,
I gotta do this, I gotta do that.
But
to the extent that any of us can,
try not to wait until it has exploded
out of you in the worst possible way
to go deal with that. Right? Deal with
that in whatever that way that might mean
for you. Because usually once it explodes out,
you know, that's when relationships get burned down.
That's when,
you know, whole lives get burned down because
you push down, you push down, you push
down. It comes out and it comes out
sometimes very destructively,
you know, in a ways you would never
have intended, you would never have wanted,
which is why you kinda we need to
have these conversations.
If you are in a safe relationship and
you know that you can trust your partner
with this kind of level of vulnerability and
intimacy,
to the extent that you can have these
conversations with each other. Just be open and
honest. You don't have to try and fix
one another. Please don't. Unless you are, like,
a professional who could do that if it
wasn't unethical to do that to somebody you're
in a relationship with.
But, you know, it's sometimes just being able
to listen,
and you'll know you're not alone when they're
sharing something. And sometimes,
just hearing, no. You are good enough. No.
You it doesn't fix anything, but it can
be like this balm. You know? It's like,
oh, I'm loved. I I feel like the
love right now. I wish I could believe
it, but I do feel loved.
So here's the thing I found in a
couple of places that I really liked. So
it's like fighting against shame. And I I
it was
talked about both
was talked about within a kink
article I read or just somebody who's kind
of like
affirming because we're you know, shame could come
from so many sources. I feel like maybe
one of the articles
on on memory here now,
they might have been like one of those
very nice affirming, like, of all identities and
LGBTQIA,
marginalized identities and marginalized communities and
who, you know, can be made to feel
a sense of shame from the outside.
Right? And so
a thing I saw a couple times was
as a way to
fight back against shame,
to
work to
free yourself from some shame. It's this idea
that desire
is resistance and liberation.
Being free, being who you really are and
embracing it. And I'm thinking of it in
a kink perspective, but it's not always that's
not the only way.
Just to be unapologetically
yourself, which is hard.
It's very difficult.
That is
I don't you know, part of the way
I interpret that is it's
it's almost like armor against somebody shaming you
from the outside. If you
are free, you know, you are free and
you can be seen and you are confident
in,
you know, in this case, your desires. What's
you know, your kinks, the things you want,
the the role you inhabit within a dynamic,
you know, to just
it's almost
it's almost a fuck you to
the kink shamers
and,
you know, the folks outside of kink non
kinksters who immediately look down on it, immediately
assume it's abuse, immediately think the worst of
it based on
not a single good example
of kink. You know what I mean?
Because some of that that shame and those
those
the forces that want you to feel shame
are coming from the outside. They are pressing
on you.
And the more of us the sort of
the thinking is the more of us who
are just
free to be who we are because I
mean, you have to tell everybody who you
are, but you just live your life authentically,
and you live as your most authentic self.
It's a way it's a a type of
liberation.
They can fight back against shame,
and with help from all kinds of other
things, probably help overcome it as well. You
know, that's, like, my kind of little fantasy
in my head of, what if I could
just be
fully I'm not sure the world is ready
for that. And completely and unapologetically
myself. Like, I am always admire whether it's
content creators or fictional characters
who just
are who they are. And if you don't
like it, like,
not even on their radar. You know? They
would never try to be purposefully
rude or harsher hurt feelings or harm somebody.
They will do the repair of that,
but they're not gonna apologize
for showing up
as their authentic self. They're not gonna apologize
for, you know, being,
you know, straightforward
or
not playing along with social niceties or whatever
whatever. And there is I mean,
yeah. There's a part of me that wishes
I could you know, you've talked about this
in past episodes. I can't remember which one
where you're like, I wish more people could
see how, like,
funny and goofy and, like, crazy you are.
And I'm like, nope. That's not safe. That's
not safe at all.
And yet and yet the people I tend
to admire the most,
whether it's a parasocial relationship or not, you
know,
are the people who just at least on
from the outside looking in, that's how they
present themselves.
It's just being unabashedly
themselves.
And I think that, you know, that kind
of goes
hand in hand with even because desire doesn't
always mean sex. It doesn't always mean erotic
desire. Desire can be what the fuck you
want, who the fuck you are. Right? It's
an authenticity
of wants and needs.
And, you know, what would the world be
like if more of us could be unashamedly
ourselves?
I can't imagine it. I think it'd be
it'd be a wild and crazy place.
Now the next one, and this is not
new. This is talked about has been talked
about
for fucking ever.
That shame,
one part, you know, part of shame, it's
rooted in societal conditioning. Right? What's normal and
acceptable.
Mhmm. And I point this out because we
are gonna get into a,
you know, here are some things you can
do to kinda combat shame and overcome it
and work through it.
And it is the
retraining your brain to understand what's air quote
normal and acceptable.
So that's where, you know, your your religious
shame comes from, the not, you know, the
vanilla shame of, you know, I was
I was taught that this is what sex
is supposed to be. This is what marriage
is supposed to be. This is what you
are supposed to do as a woman, as
a man, whatever. What you know, all of
that. Right?
I mean, I would have
thought I had a mostly kind
of liberal upbringing,
And so did not necessarily have outside forces
making me
feel ashamed of sexual desire
or,
you know, desire for kink once I figured
out that was a fucking thing. And to
a certain extent, I guess not because I
learned I was submissive and I went, oh,
puzzle piece clicking into place. I understand myself.
I'm not ashamed of this. I'm like, I'm
excited to understand myself.
But
even in a non religious,
non
trying to be conforming to the world family,
I certainly that was my family. They they
were not like that.
Because in this case, in this
specific example,
my mother
everybody in the house, everybody in the family,
nobody talked about sex. Like, you just you
just didn't ask questions.
And not for religious purposes, not for,
you know, I I never got I was
never told sex is bad, don't have sex.
I it was just literally we do not
talk about that. Yeah.
And I, as a kid,
either realized or turned it in my head
of, oh, it must be bad.
So when I went through my rebellious streak,
that's what I did.
But also I was a dumbass
because I had no education on it.
You know? So shame can like,
your society or your
your surroundings, the people who are around you
that normalize shit for you, they don't even
have to be trying to, like,
put you into, like, this narrow scope of
what it means to be a human. You
know? Whether it's
faith based or it's just
this is what proper people do or this
is what our culture does or whatever whatever.
It can be even it could be from
fucking neglect. It can be from I'm just
not gonna teach you you a thing. I'm
we're not gonna talk about a thing, or
this is how I talk about a thing.
This is another common one I see
typically with with cis girls and women
who have, you know, many of us have
poor body image issues, and it's not necessarily
because somebody told us that we were fat
or we were this or we were that.
I got told that so I know where
mine comes from. But alternatively, and this was
a revelation for me because I got it
externally. I was bullied and teased and treated
very poorly.
I know I know where that shame comes
from.
But the other way that a lot
of women and girls
feel some sense of body shame is because
they watched their mothers
judge their own body.
And, you know, kids are smart, extrapolated of,
oh, if they don't like their body and
it looks like that, then they don't like
my body or there's something wrong with my
body. So, So, like, you don't have to
be outwardly shamed or told to feel bad
about a thing
to internalize
those bad feelings. Even, you know,
it it's it's all of society
when it comes to that though.
I mean,
you know, even if it's not your your
parents in one way or another, you you
look at a at a magazine. You pick
up any magazine and and you're shown this
is what you're supposed to be. Right.
Right. Societal standards, the beauty standards, what's what's
normalized, what's, you know, allowed
in,
TV and movies. I don't
know a lot about this because this is
not my area of expertise, but I saw
it on the Internet. I believe it's called
the Hays expertise, but I saw it on
the Internet.
I believe it's called the Hays Code in
Hollywood,
was in effect for a long fucking time.
And there were, like, rules about, you know,
there couldn't be interracial
relationships. You could not have two people of
a two people of a different race could
not. There would could be no kissing. There
could be no, like, implication
of fucking. There could be none of that.
There were lots and lots of standards and
rules. That that's why in TV shows early
on like I Love Lucy, they had separate
beds. The fact that Lucy was pregnant on
TV was like That was a big thing.
That was a big thing. Right. But one
of the things and I think it was
in the Hays Code. I think I'm saying
that right.
Was that if somebody was going to be
queer,
they better
die or they better be the villain.
You could it to
to show a queer person
a happy ending
was to normalize
that air quote deviant behavior.
And so that's how subtle those messages can
be, which isn't really subtle once you know
it's there. But, you
know, if your experiences as a straight cis
person and you are the, you know, majority
like, I'm I'm a white chick. Like, there
are so many things that went over my
head that were not my experience that I
you know, it's looking back or being told
explicitly, hey. This was a thing that I'm
like, oh, shit. I see it now. You
know? That's the privilege of not being in,
you know, having certain identities. You don't know
sometimes the
prejudice and the bigotry and the repression that
occurs. But that was, you know, that I
still hear people when they talk about
gay people or queer people of any kind
in
TV and movies. It's
it's called,
Kill Your Gaze, which is that whole
thing of they don't, you know, air quote,
they're not supposed to get to live because
you're glorified. Like, it's it's awful Yeah. But
it's so insidious
that, of course, people
internalize some sense
of shame over it. And then you start
living your fucking life and you try to
be your best, most authentic self.
And even when you think you're doing it,
you can run smack dab into Into the
Into shame. Right?
Now, when I looked
at sexual shame because I was like, what
is
sexual shame, it cannot be directly correlated with,
a sense of shame about kink because
sex and kink do not automatically go together.
There are plenty of people who do kink
and it's not sexual for them. And certainly,
there are plenty of people who are sexual
and they're not kinky. Right? But I did
wanna look at sexual shame
because it can play a part if you're
trying to just have fucking kinky sex. I
mean, tripped. Like, it's still there.
So,
from a 2023
study,
and I linked it, the the the
study was not specifically about, like,
the cause of sexual shame. I think it
was about, like, how people deal with it.
It was a the study is interesting, but
it was not directly related to this conversation,
but I pulled this out.
Sexual shame is a specific type of shame
that refers to a feeling of disgust or
humiliation
towards one's own identity
as a sexual being and is composed of
three factors.
Relationship sexual shame, internalized
sexual shame, and sexual inferiority.
I'm not sure, like, I didn't find I
didn't go down the rabbit hole of what
the hell is sexual inferiority.
And I'm not a professional of anything, so
but the relationship and the internalized,
I think
you could pop out the word sexual and
put in the word kink.
Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Because if you are
told, taught, or otherwise somehow receive the message
that liking this kinky shit means you're an
evil person,
you know, to be a dom, to to
be a to be a sadist, to be
an impact,
you know, that you are an abuser. Right?
Like, that that message comes from somewhere. Right?
And I think that,
sex and kink don't always go hand in
hand, but some of those feelings of shame,
I have a feeling, they overlap, you know,
regardless of whether your kink is sexual or
not.
You know? Because we are exploring
taboos.
We are doing things that if you don't
have context for what we're doing, it it
does look illegal.
It does look illegal.
And without consent, it is illegal. Right? So
to know you know, you've talked about it
many times before that you had to work
hard to overcome the I can't believe I'm
hitting somebody.
Yeah. Because that that was something that was
drilled into me. Mhmm. You know?
Especially
someone of the opposite sex. Right. Exactly.
Exactly.
So I wanted to point that out because,
again,
shame comes from all kinds of places, and
we have shame over an infinite number
of pieces, parts
of our of who we are. Right? And
if the thing that
you feel shame about might not be the
thing that I feel shame about, but it
it might still be kind of in the
same family of shame. But
sexual shame,
is kind of a little bit its own
beast.
Because many of us,
were raised in very puritanical
kind of ideals
of what's okay and what's not. And then
here we come, us kinky fuckers, and we're
like, actually, we're gonna do all the things
you told us we should not do.
But we're gonna do it with communication and
consent and care and, you know, not be
illegal about it.
And yet we to this day, even now,
even with all the movies that keep coming
out, baby Girl and Pillion, I wanna see
that one. And if and whatever else has
been out recently, like,
it's either a joke or it's part of
an erotic thriller. It's still like Pillion,
I think I'm saying the name of that
movie right. It's,
it's just now coming out or it's coming
out very soon. It is
it's d s. It's power exchange Okay. Between
two gay men. And
I don't know if it's a healthy power
exchange.
Mhmm. I know the
the character who is the submissive
definitely has he has the big doe eyes,
you know. I'm like, yeah. You're the submissive.
And I know that in the trailers I've
seen that that dominant
seems kind of cold and aloof.
And I'm like, I I I hope
it goes deeper. Mhmm. I hope we see
that that's not
really, like
but
reading about that particular movie
and seeing the trailers I've seen,
Lola agrees,
Made me think or made me hope at
least that maybe this would be, like, one
of the times that power exchange was not
scary.
It wasn't part of a mind game. Like,
Sanctuary, a movie we have desperately been trying
to make happen on our, every other month
movie night in our Discord.
That's a, you know, it goes wrong because
the
dominant partner
is not,
accepting the safe word. Not in a way
that they are perpetuating
physical harm, but there seems to be blackmail.
There seems to be something nefarious going on.
And that, you know, either kink is the
joke most of the time. Not always. The
joke or it's part of like a, oh,
you're this is a thriller. This is horror.
This is something bad is happening here. And
I'm hoping that this movie Pillion, I think
I'm saying that right,
is truly just about a power exchange relationship.
Because even there was another movie that came
out this year,
is a rom com but they used kink
to handcuff this man to the bed because
he was a shit guy from the trailer.
That's what I get. And so but it's
still the joke. Right? Mhmm. So
somebody comes into kink now or in ten
years,
and these are the messages they're seeing from
the non kink world.
You know, it's not surprising to me. If
even then, even if when we say, oh,
but look, we've had the the show
bondage, bonding, the one on Netflix. Mhmm. I
know there's another one. Is it out of
South Korea? I still haven't watched it, but
I hear it's really good. You know, we
have this media,
but very little of it does anything to
actually push back against the narrative
that, you know, kink is something inherently bad.
Mhmm. And then
too many of us come into kink and
then have to overcome those feelings of shame
because of what we've internalized
over all this time.
Does that Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Look, this topic
like, even though this is not our first
time talking about, it's got me in a
fucking choke hold.
Yeah. So
now
towards
the end
of this
conversation,
let's talk about and I'm air quoting this.
I I put quotes around scare quotes around
it in my notes. Air quotes, solutions
to reducing shame. Okay?
Across, like,
shame about kink, shame about sex, shame in
general, there were some commonalities of, like, here
are some things that can help. Now again,
nuance. Everybody's different. Not everything will work for
everybody.
You know, sometimes there are things and there
will absolutely be things that I didn't know
to name in here that are solutions as
well. Okay?
So this was the thing I did and
this is usually where I stop
when I'm trying to overcome something. I know
that's unhealthy, Which is identify where the
the shame comes from to the best that
you can. Mhmm. Sometimes it's obvious. Sometimes you're
like, I was raised in church and I
was told this is evil and I'm going
to hell and that's I might not believe
that, but that's a feeling. Right? Or I
was told I am bad, so therefore, I
think I am bad or I thought I
was bad. Right?
Kink is, you know,
inherently abusive. And so therefore, I think, like,
I think sometimes identifying
where it's coming from
is easier than others.
Personally, I would say first, identify that it
is shame.
Because my first
thought when I was when I had the
thought of, I kinda wish I could do
that. I wish I could be that, you
know, brat like that. The first thing I
felt was fear.
And if I had stopped there
and not gone any further, I wouldn't have
hit on shame. I had to go, but
why am I afraid?
And questioning why I was afraid,
I was able to go, because then I'm
bad, then I'm wrong, and I'm not, and
I know. Mhmm. But sometimes you the the
first step really is just to figure out
that this is shame that you're dealing with
and not some other
emotion. Right. Right?
The next and this
hopefully,
we can be a space for this.
But to talk about your desires in emotionally
safe spaces or with emotionally safe people.
So in my case, I'm having the conversation
with y'all because
every thought I have is content. I'm so
sorry. But I'm really having the conversation with
JB because he is safe. And I'm I
do feel like this is an emotionally safe
space because the people who know who we
are can accept this conversation. It'll be the
people who are just now coming across us
that will have
something stupid to say. But I'm not worried
about them. Right? I consider this an emotionally
safe space to have these conversations.
If you can have those kinds of spaces,
you can have those people in your life,
that's invaluable to be able to kind of
go, we've developed the trust, we've developed the
connection.
Mhmm. I know I can be this vulnerable
with you. Let me just because sometimes naming
it is
is more powerful than you realize. Right? To
just say it out loud. Yeah. Yeah. Whether
it's just to say it out loud in
general or
what I have found to be true for
myself is when you have somebody that whose
judgment you trust, who,
you know, affirms that you are fine, that
you are not bad, or, you know, or
says the thing that you didn't even know
you needed to hear until you heard it,
which tends to be,
actually, no. That's that's not a bad thing
or actually, you know, that's a good thing.
That's you were a good per whatever. Whatever
validation
might be helpful.
And emotionally safe people can sometimes provide
that for you. Here's the other one and
this one is so for fucking kinksters because
we're already doing it here. Whether you're listening
to the podcast, you're doing it on your
own, but you're listening with others.
Whether you're watching on YouTube or the live
stream, we are in community.
Seek community to realize you're not alone.
Every time somebody asks us,
I'm just figuring out I'm kinky. I feel
very alone. I feel very weird. What do
I do?
There are many things we can tell you
to do, but one of them is always
go find others like you. Because you remember,
one of the things
one of the things you can, you know,
about shame is, you know, shame is rooted
in societal conditioning, what's normal and acceptable.
Reframe what's normal and acceptable. And if you
surround yourself, online or in person, with other
people who are kinky,
online or in person, with other people who
are kinky,
it doesn't necessarily take that long for your
brain to go, oh, this is normal. Because
look, all of these other people are also
you've normalized it for yourself. Might take a
while. But that
is a an option
to fight back against shame, especially if we're
talking specifically, I'm feeling shame as a kinkster.
Right?
Thinking you're the only one
is usually the first step towards a lot
of really negative feelings
and not getting anywhere positive
in your kink life.
It's it's yeah. I mean, a lot of
the the fears people have is they think
they're the only one who's ever wanted to,
you know,
smack somebody in the face consensually, or they've
ever wanted to, like, tie somebody up, and
they ever wanted to chase somebody through the
woods. You know?
If you're getting
get consent, but you're not the only one.
And that's where community can help with that.
And then okay. No. There's another one.
It says learn to accept yourself for who
you are and what you want.
I think
that's the hardest one. I was gonna say
that that can be that can be a
very tough Mhmm. Thing to do. Mhmm.
Mhmm.
Yep. Because if shame is the messages you
got from society and that's it Mhmm. Mostly
it,
that's tough to overcome. Right? It's it is
tough. If if the shame is
but if the shame is, like,
childhood
trauma or trauma that wasn't childhood, but it
was traumatic,
I mean, we're talking about something deeper than,
oh, I just thought all of these people
were
deviants in the bad way, and I've gotta
over come that. Right? Mhmm. There is the
but actually, I was made to be fearful
for my life and or soul at a
formative age,
and that's been with me. And now I'm
at the big age of 45.
Right? Like,
yes. Learn to accept yourself. There's that's a
good thing overall. It's a net good, but
don't anybody think that's necessarily easy.
I have been very comfortable being submissive
all these fucking years,
but I am not comfortable showing
every inch of of
my weirdest
self. I would I want to be,
but
not there yet.
Don't know if I'll get there. I'm not
real worried about it. I'm doing okay.
You know what I mean? So yes.
But also
Yeah.
And then the final one,
which is because sometimes you can know that
this is what you need to do, and
that doesn't make it easy. Right?
When necessary,
if you have access,
therapy. Yeah.
Yeah. And that was a big one across,
like, all resources I looked at. It didn't
matter if it's about sex or kink or
whatever.
Therapy. Now granted, was I on therapist websites?
Yes.
There's there's inherent bias there
that therapy is gonna help with everything. But
there I mean, there is something to that
for sure for sure. The thing I've learned,
thank you, Internet,
is that not all therapies are created equal.
Not all therapists are. Like, the the big
thing is you gotta find somebody you vibe
with and who gets you and and who
can,
you know
I like,
it is not
uncommon or wrong if you are within the
LGBTQIA
plus community to want a therapist who is
also within that community. It you know, a
thing I see online a lot, which makes
complete and total sense to me,
black women who are like, I want
a a black woman therapist because they're gonna
understand my experience. I just want a black
therapist because they're gonna understand the black experience
in a way that a white person is
not gonna.
Right?
So break that down a very small much
smaller level. Wanting a kink aware therapist.
Right? Because then you're they
they might not understand your specific kink, but
you don't have to try to teach them
about kink
just to get the help you need. Right?
But so that thing I've known. I've you
know, the Internet taught me a lot, but
the one that I've learned most recently is
that not all therapeutic types are
the same
and not all are right for a person.
So cognitive behavioral therapy is what I have
the most experience with. I think it's currently,
at least, probably the most common, and it
is helpful for many people,
but not always and not you know, it's
all
individualized. Right?
I don't remember what it stands for but
I just learned about one called DBT.
I cannot remember what the d stands for.
And then,
oh gosh.
EDM?
I did not expect to talk about different
therapies. Therefore, I did not write them all
down. And this is the Internet, like, exposing
me to information I did not have before.
So I'm not
confident.
But, you know,
those types of therapies, I don't think you
start with. I think you start with cognitive
behavioral therapy. You start with talk therapy, and
then maybe you move to those other therapies.
That's kind of how I've seen
it positioned online.
But that's a thing to consider as well.
If you're thinking, well, I did therapy and
that didn't fucking help. Well, was it the
therapist?
Was it the type of therapy you were
experiencing?
What is it you know, it's not that
therapy is, you know, bad. It's that maybe
that was not the right person or the
right type for you. And thank you, live
chat. I love y'all.
Is it dialectical
behavior therapy?
Let's go with DBT,
and EMDR,
eye movement desensitization
and process reprocessing.
Thank you, Enchanted Wings. I have seen that
that is not one that is in my
memory. Thanks.
And I've read a little bit about that
particular
type of therapy and how it can be
very helpful
for folks, especially who,
are dealing with trauma in some way.
My point is, because I am not a
professional,
y'all, my little four year bachelor of arts
in psychology from
twenty three years ago
is doing a lot of heavy lifting over
here,
is that
there's more than just one type of therapy.
Yeah. Right? And there are plenty of therapists.
Not everybody like, for those of us who
require that we need to use our insurance
to for this to be possible,
that can limit your scope.
So that can it can be tough.
The
I haven't looked recently, but the last time
I did a search for a KinkoWear therapist
through the KinkoWear professional site linked in the
places as a reminder,
it continued to be true that, like, a
few months ago.
The times I see
the most people who are like, we can
do a sliding scale, you know, we don't
accept insurance, but we will work with you
and your budget to the best that we
can, has been on those folks who are
LGBTQIA
affirming,
kink aware,
ethical non monogamy
aware and affirming. Like, though those folks,
you know,
it has been my experience. Not all of
them,
but many many more of them than, like,
what I would consider, like, the vanillas.
Yeah.
Are are willing to work with folks to
the extent that they can
so that it can be more accessible.
Yeah.
But shame's a tough one, y'all. Shame will
fuck up your life.
It will hold you back. It will stop
you from doing shit and being who you
are and being who you wanna be. It
will lie to you. It will make you
believe complete and utter bullshit lies about yourself.
You know? And
there's more to what makes life tough than
shame,
but the the things I've overcome
in places where I have overcome shame, in
those places, my life has got is infinitely
better.
Not because anything materially
got better necessarily,
but because I was not weighed down with
these lies I believed about myself.
Makes sense. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Absolutely.
And because
kink folks who figure out they are kinky
tend to at some point in your kink
journey have to face shame of some sort,
not everybody, but many.
You know, it's a thing you gotta you
gotta be aware of because it you won't
you won't name it as shame necessarily, but
there'll be something
that stops you from
bratting,
from feeling safe to brat as my example
that started this whole fucking episode.
And it won't feel like shame. It'll feel
like fear. It'll feel like might feel like
anger. You might get angry about it and
not know why you're angry. Something about it
makes you angry.
Sometimes you trace to that anger wreck and
it's really shame.
So
and it yeah. It can it can sort
of stunt your kink life and
make it harder to live the kink life
that you wanna live because you drag your
weight down, drag down, held back
by by shame.
So it's important. We gotta talk about it.
I did a lot of fucking talking now.
You did.
I didn't drink all my diet coke yet.
So
What? Does that mean there's more talk left?
Oh, there's always more talk left. Yeah. Look,
thankfully, I've never lost my voice for any
reason.
I've come close where my I think when
I had strep many years ago,
didn't stop me. Throat was on fire, kept
going.
And several people in live chat,
here on YouTube are talking about how either
EMDR was really good for them and or
DBT,
was good for them. So and I'm, you
know, glad to have, you know, learn about
that. It's it's a matter of trying what
works for you because everybody
will respond differently.
Exactly. So Mhmm. Talk therapy being the most
common one, and many people think talk therapy
won't help. Well, first of all, until you
try it, you don't know. But also, it's
not the only game in town. There you
might have options.
So anything you would like to add?
Now I peeled back the layers of our
soul.
No.
You're like, nope. I'm covering my soul back
up. Thank you very much.
Back down in those, deep depths. So before
we get into the bonus section Uh-huh.
Let's let's go back to the inciting incident.
Okay.
Because we were talking last night, and I
knew this topic was coming. So I wonder
what you think of this now. I was
We were talking last night about the idea
of me bratting. And I was like, wait,
you don't like
Not not like brats, but like within our
dynamic, you want me to be a good
girl.
Well, yeah. You want me to be obedient.
Mhmm. And you don't.
I have been accused of bratting when I
was definitely not trying to brat. And when
I was accused of it, it was not
with a sadistic gleam in his eye. It
was with, what the fuck are you doing
over there? So I have read that as
he does not necessarily want a brat in
his dynamic.
And yet It wasn't just not the right
moment.
And see see, that's the thing that so
what I'm curious about is not the shame
part, you know, not not everything we've discussed
that was actually about the topic.
One, I know you wanna read that book
now. I hope you find it in your
Kindle. Yeah.
But I think you'll like that series. I'm
just saying.
But two,
what do you think about that personal revelation?
In in one way, not surprising.
Mhmm.
I think it's
I think it's something that's been there with
you Mhmm. For a long time and it's
just been sitting there under the surface just
So far,
I've never intentionally
bratted.
But,
like, recently,
I have
looked, like, immediately, like, within seconds, looked back
and gone,
I think that was a brat moment. The
other night in bed, there was one.
Which which moment are you thinking? Yeah.
Which one which one are you thinking? And
I I I can't remember the
You should remember the vibe. Yeah.
I mean, there was a lot of pouting
the other night because I was not ready
for the
to have to roll over and
get to fucking sleep. I wanted to just
look.
Okay. And you were doing everything in your
power. There was legit pouting and whining.
Yeah. I was living up to that baby
girl
title
in the worst possible way. But see, here's
the thing. And it only I only feel
like this in this way at night when
we're in bed and I'm comfy and the
lights are dim and we're relaxed and we're,
like, together without, like, the outside world
being there. Right?
And, basically, I wish I could be
I wanna be as close to JV as
possible to the extent that if I could,
I would climb inside his skin and just
let him carry me around like a kangaroo.
Okay? Like,
how close can I physically get
in your skin's not quite close enough? Okay?
And I don't feel like that all the
time. I promise you during my waking,
adulting hours, I'm like, actually,
I'm gonna leave the room because I need
space from all people including this man I
love more than life myself.
But at night when
when the walls come down and I'm a
little sleepy Eevee. Anything
goes. Anything goes. And there are times
I do fight
the
it's time to roll over now. Okay. We
have talked about the different codes we have
in our you know, people in long term
relationships tend to pick up, like, codes that
you say to one another. It's shorthand for
whatever.
I made the joke that I because what
JB says is, okay, baby girl. It's time
to roll over and go to sleep. And
so I started making the joke of, I'm
gonna roll over like a rotisserie
chicken so that I come back around. Right?
I also complained that in the middle of
the night, I roll like a rotisserie chicken
because I'm constantly going back and forth. But
I was teasing. I was like, okay, I'm
a roll like a rotisserie chicken.
So because we both knew, so I would
come back around.
That I did that did not go over
well.
But now the code is rollover, but not
like a rotisserie chicken.
So or don't rotisserie chicken.
Or I just go, I'm gonna rotisserie chicken.
And we all know what that means now.
And that is some of our inner
code. Yeah. That's right up there with,
you know, saying, okay. It's time to go
to sleep.
Why why do we have to go to
sleep? Why doesn't sleep come to us?
And then you thought you got around it
one night and you went, okay. We're gonna
let sleep find us. And I'm like, no.
We should we should be more polite and
go to sleep.
I thought the Smith's head was gonna sleep.
Yeah.
You see? You see?
And there's something about the nighttime
in bed
after, like, 10:30 at night when
the baby girl comes out very strong. And
it's fun, and I'm having fun, and it's
playful well you know we we have we
have a routine in this house and it
usually early evening
Lola gets her zoomies
probably about half hour or so before bed
the cats get their zoomies. Mhmm. And they're
chasing each other. It it's like a freaking
cartoon. You'll see Ella running with Onyx chasing
her to the one side of the house,
and then they turn around and Ella's chasing
Onyx in the opposite direction.
But then
after the cats have their zoomies,
we go to bed,
and and and this one right here,
she gets zoomies.
It's usually the first time I've had to
actually fully
relax and decompress in a day.
And now there are days I'm in, like,
not a great mood or I don't feel
good, and I don't. And I'm not playful,
and I'm just, like, I'm just, like, zonked
out. Yeah. It's not happening. But days when
I'm feeling good or,
you know, it's just maybe been our first
chance in the whole day to truly connect.
Shit. Yeah.
So
I still currently do not accept
the label of brat. I am not actively
trying to brat.
But
I've been walking a fine line and I
know that. I know that. I can admit
that is my point. So
that's all I got. We can do a
bonus section. Okay. So are we,
are we good? That's not for me to
decide. I don't know.
Keep it kinky, y'all. And we'll see you
next week.
Daddy.
You okay over there? A little bit clamped.
Dottie. Yes. Maybe girl. Can we talk to
the crackheads? Yes. Okay.
I don't really have anything. You thought you
self tried, didn't you? I did. I did.
I had we're just having thoughts earlier, like,
oh, that be good. Bonus section
conversation, and it's gone right now. What have
you got? Well, I know I know me.
Part of this, you know,
I I kind of put a, small
hold on the rescreening
Of all our windows? Yeah. Mhmm. And,
the other day, I with with the weather
turning
somewhat nicer, I dove into the yard work,
which has been neglected.
Yes. And he mowed both the front and
the back yard without letting me help. And
I trimmed the hedges.
And I treated all the beds with the,
weed spray.
And I was
just not helping. And you were doing it
all on your lonesome. And I don't really
love that.
And then he was shocked when he was
exhausted and he didn't I wasn't shocked. I
knew I knew it was gonna happen
because I had worked all morning in the
shop and then
Yeah. That afternoon. And we had gone, what,
three weeks, maybe longer without mowing. Mowing. Yeah.
It was getting hot. Yeah. Lola does not
like it No. When she feels the grass
on her nipples. And, you know,
I've never felt the grass on my nipples,
but I'm pretty sure Well, I I knew
I wouldn't like it either. I I I
knew the the breaking point was when I
watched her one evening go behind the shed.
Which has no grass. Yep. It was like
I'm not squatting in this forest.
It's backyard jungle. Right. Yeah. No. She that's
yeah. If we've let it go way too
long, that's the sign. Yeah. I was
I once watched Lola
kinda stay on the back patio pad
and just angle her butt off in the
grass to pee. I was like, oh, honey.
Yeah.
And the and I you know, I know
we're not alone in this, but
we have to start mowing weekly
very early in a year, like Yeah. Before
most people are done with their winter
slash, like, really cold spring, like early spring.
It's time to mow everything. And then it
goes into about October,
and it's just like,
goddamn. I just want a fucking break. So
I get why we why that happens to
us. Plus the we don't have a riding
mower any longer. We just have a push
mower. True. True. True. True. True. True. So
Mhmm. Yep.
But,
yeah.
Mhmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm worded out. Mhmm. I'm actually I have
no thoughts right now.
Brain drain.
So
I'm just I'm just grateful that the
the the weather is starting to
our our highs are,
like, in the low
eighties right now. Woke up the other day
and it was what? 58 degrees? 58 degrees.
That was a beautiful morning. We were pouring
resin this morning, 09:00,
and it I mean, it was just like,
probably not maybe 70 degrees. It was perfect.
There was not a drop of humidity
The temperature was so nice. I was like,
I can live out here. I can be
out here now for the rest of my
life. Came in the house, like, we complained
about at the top, and it's fucking hot
in here.
Fucking hot in here.
And then she came
out later, and she was shocked when I
had
cleaned both benches.
Oh, yeah. It looked really nice. I was
like, oh, wow. We can we can set
stuff out on the vent the work table
again. Yeah. Now there are certain things I
like to keep. I don't like to put
away because I use them literally every day,
and JB
had been really efficient. But since this time,
I was like, I have to go find
these, though.
Yeah. That was nice. It it made it
it looked like we have all this room
to work in now. It was a long
time coming.
Oh,
what about
your moment of
finding Ella facing down a neighbor cat outside,
not inside?
Yeah. One at one point, I came in
the house. I thought I had shut the
door behind me. Apparently, it did not shut,
and it was clacked just enough for Ella
to,
make her way to the front porch. Mhmm.
And,
I came walking back
through the house, saw the door clacking, and
I was like, oh, fuck.
I went to the window
next door and looked out, and there's Ella.
Her tail was like
poof,
and and she was squared off with with
a neighbor's cat. Mhmm. Not the cat that
every time she sees him walk across the
front yard, she hisses and, like, has a
love hate relationship with,
but some other rando cat that she probably
had never seen. Right.
And,
I opened the door,
and I said, Ella.
And she she turned around, looked at me,
and just trotted back in the house.
But then poor JB was in a panic.
He goes, where is Onyx? Yeah. Because the
door been cracked and it we didn't you
know, it had been several minutes and if
Ella got out, did Onyx get out?
We checked every hidey hole Onyx has. She
wasn't there. We're walking through the house. I'm
like, let me go check the 20 year
old's bedroom. That door's open. Maybe she's in
there. I walked past. She's sitting on my
my chair at the dining room table,
just curled up. I was like, this bitch
don't even know the door was open. And
she would take a shot, not at freedom
necessarily, but, like Yeah. All of the the
available space for hunting There there there was
there was one time the
door
from the laundry room going into the garage
Right. Yes. Was left open.
And and Onyx,
you know, as
as much a standoffish as she is to
people Mhmm.
She is the
one who will
jump into something when she sees it. Gonna
investigate. Yeah.
Ellen never went out into the garage. No.
But Onyx, she was everywhere. And when Onyx
we got Onyx back in, her she's black
cat. Her whole head is covered in cobwebs
and dust. Dust. Yep. I'm like, where the
hell did you get into? Yep.
Yeah.
Now my theory has always been that Ella
knows which side her bread is buttered on.
She's Yeah. She knows what
that she's got regular
food in this house Yeah. And soft places
to sit so that she's not gonna run
away. She's mostly not usually interested in going
out the door even when we open the
door. Right. She's curious and comes up to
the front door because she wants to know
where the hell we've been mostly. Right. And
did we bring her something to eat? And
really, I've had the same kind of reaction.
But so it does not surprise me that
she came in
so willingly
at all. Yeah. She was like, oh, that
that's the comfortable place, and they will feed
me. I'll go my ass back in there.
But
I do think that she might have been
a little disappointed that we so there's
big fluffy orange cat next door named Koi
who
still he loves our driveway, loves our front
yard, will not come up to us. He
is not that kinda cat. Beautiful, though.
I think he stands outside
our big window in the living room while
Ella and Onyx are sitting on that window
sill. It's like one of those, like,
wide
like It's like a bay window. Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you. I couldn't think of what it
was called.
I think he does it to antagonize
Ella because
every time Ella sees him,
she puffs up. She gets so mad. And
her meow, hiss, growl thing is one of
pure annoyance.
She
so it's like a When when she does
that, it's even enough that it make it
gets Lola up Yeah. From wherever she is
to go investigate as well. Yes. So I
always figured eventually she would calm down because
Onyx has calmed down. Onyx doesn't fluff up
anymore. Onyx doesn't try to attack the glass.
None of that. But Ella
and I'm like, well, I'm that's the enemies
to lovers,
like, book I wanna read. Yeah. Right?
But, actually, I think what Ella would do,
if given the chance, would be to attempt
to kick Koi's ass. Koi would kick her
ass. He is brutal. Oh, yeah. He is
he is a wealth he's an outdoor cat,
but he is well fed, well taken care
of. And yet, this little motherfucker
will eat off of the plates of food
that, one of our neighbors leaves out for
the stray cats in our neighborhood.
I have watched Koi, who is well fed
Oh, yeah. Bully another cat off of the
food that was left there, and I'm like
and Koi has no fucks to give. I
could walk up
and shoo him away, but he will immediately
come back and then they'll he'll fight for
dominance over that plot of land, and no
other cat can come up Yeah. And eat.
I'm like, you little shit.
Yeah.
So
Anyway. Anyhoo,
we should probably say goodbye. Yeah. We probably
should. I gotta cook dinner in, like,
not that long from now. Correct. We eat
dinner very early around here, y'all.
We do not have the temperament for eating
dinner late. We get very hangry in this
house.
We started early dinner times because the when
the kids were in elementary school,
we wanted them to get to bed early.
Yeah. And so we when we never changed.
Nobody is goes to bed as early as
they did when we started a five to
05:30
dinner time, and we've never changed. No. I
mean, we get I mean, there's no reason.
There there's no reason for it anymore.
No. We could we could do anything we
wanted. Yeah. If it if I'm still cooking
at 05:45,
I've got both of them. The 16 year
old and the daddy dom Mom. What's happening?
Circling Yep. Like fucking vultures. I'm like, y'all
eat a potato chip. Okay? I'll get dinner
on the table when I can't.
So but, yeah, in thirty minutes at 05:00PM
eastern, I have to start making dinner.
So nobody gnaws their arm off
in a house full of things.
Because we never change. We're so habit
and routine oriented.
So I guess we should go so I
can do that. Yeah.
Yep. Okay. Hi, folks. We will be back
next week. Thanks for being here. Always a
pleasure to hang out with y'all. Especially to
the bitter end. We appreciate y'all. Okay. Yep.
Yep. Bye. Bye.