You're listening to Living BDSM podcast episode four
forty five. Kayla Lords here with the one,
the only,
the man who has,
shown a lot of patience towards our streaming
setup today, John Brownstone.
Yeah.
Even after learning that yet another thing can
only be accessed on a subscription service.
I I truly at some point, I feel
like, you know, the ability to breathe oxygen,
that's gonna be $4.99
a month. Yeah. Everything is on a subscription.
Well, yeah. It it was frustrating because,
you know, this
utility
to do what we do, which helped do
what we do
for years
and years
has just been a downloadable utility. You go
to to the website and you download the
utility and boom, you're doing
they've taken all the
downloads away Mhmm. And now there is only
the paid
subscription. Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyhoo. That's in no way what we're talking
about, but if we get a JB rant
out of this week's episode, that will have
a little bit to do with it. Just
I'm just saying.
This week, we're actually gonna do a topic
that came up in conversation in our Discord
server Mhmm. That got a lot of people
talking, got JB thinking. And then, you know,
when I went, oh, yeah. Let me, like,
pay attention. I started thinking, and next thing
you know, here we are.
Do do I know what I'm gonna say
yet? No. I'm gonna be actively thinking through
this in real time into a microphone.
So this will be interesting. Mhmm. Welcome to
the Loving BDSM podcast. If this is your
first time listening, glad to have you. If
you're back for another week, welcome back. Loving
BDSM is produced every Friday for your kinky
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A big thanks, as we always like to
do, to our kinky patrons, not just for
their support, not just for being in community
if you would like to apparently know what
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participate in the conversations like that, be part
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You'll find all the information at patreon.com/kaylalords
or the link is in the show notes.
Okay. Before we get into our topic,
an announcement.
If you are on our email list, you
will hopefully have heard this already and you
will hear it many times
again. We
this thing, it came out last year and
we talked about it and I know a
lot of y'all signed up for it. It
is back this year. It's called Jumpstart Your
BDSM Journey. It's a BDSM
air quote boot camp,
that is,
educational workshops, four days, absolutely free, all online,
put on through, DomSub Living. Alessandra is the
one, I think with her partner,
who's doing all of the classes this time.
This is different from the summit we did
a few months ago where we had a
class. This is all Dom Sub Living, but
it's four days, absolutely free. The whole kind
of point you know how we talk about
how we want you to have a happier,
healthier power exchange and that there's lots of
ways to get there.
This is some of, like, kind of the
beginning stuff of, like, figuring out what you
want and how is it gonna fit into
your life and how you can gain confidence
in yourself as a kinkster so that this
can be a part of your life if
that's how you wanna do it.
So the link is in the places,
absolutely free. One of the things I love
about Alessandra over at Domestud Living is when
she
puts on a free thing, whether it's just
her by herself or we collaborate with a
whole bunch of other educators and creators, her
whole point is, yeah, it's free, but it
still has to be actionable. It has to
be, like, worth the time. It's not the
direct, hey, I'm gonna give you, like, surface
level information that doesn't actually change your life.
You could have gotten that through a Google
search. And then here's a sales pitch at
the end. It's, like, legit
educational content for four days.
Full disclosure. At some point in it, of
course, there is a sales pitch, but for
free, you will get the information
that you want. You'll get plenty of actual
information.
Don't have to spend a dime. So that
starts July 14. There's, like, two weeks to
sign up. We're gonna be talking about it
until there's no more time to sign up.
So if that's your thing, if you did
it before, you found it helpful, if you're
at this point in your BDSM life and
you're like, yeah. I could use that, feel
free to check it out.
Yeah. Link in the places.
That's the thing.
Okay. This week's topic,
huge,
massive thanks to Princess Rara Mhmm. Of Pink
Kink podcast,
who brought this discussion into our Discord and
went, oh, I've been having conversations about this.
I wanna know what y'all think. And then
I slid into her DMs today and went,
is it okay with you if I use
this as a topic? Because
there's
some thoughts popping up. Mhmm. And she's very
gracious. If you are not aware of the
Pinky King podcast, if that's not one you've
listened to yet, link is in the places.
Go check out their podcast.
First of all,
there are people who know what the hell
they're talking about, so you're gonna get good
information. But what I really like is,
Rah Rah and,
Dara, they
what am I trying to say? Words Swiss
cheese brain. They talk more about kinks than
we do. Like, we get a lot of
people who are like, can you talk about,
like, a specific kink or kink activity or
fucker or scenes? And I'm like,
we're more of the relationship
communication people. That's kind of our jam. For
the kink education, definitely, definitely check out Pink
Ink podcast. Mhmm. And thank you to RahRah
for bringing this topic to our attention and
for being like, yeah. Sure. Let's freaking talk
about this. Also,
you will probably see this come
up in other future episodes that are not
us. I'm just saying, I don't wanna give
spoilers away because that's not my job. Okay.
So
what I wanna do
before we talk. Right? Mhmm. I want to
share
the situation that Ra Ra shared
asked, and then we can kinda talk about
it because Okay. It's very philosophical.
It's very interesting conversation. It can go all
kinds
places. So this was the the situation that
Ra Ra shared with us.
Atop posted that she did electro play on
someone with a pacemaker.
The Top joked that the Bottom almost died
but it was worth it because the Bottom
was hot.
And she claims that the bottom asked for
it.
Electroplague can short circuit a pacemaker
causing it to malfunction and or fail, which
is Mhmm. Potentially life threatening for said person
with said pacemaker,
just if you didn't
know. So the questions that Rara brought up
in the conversation is like, is there ever
a point where even if both people fully
consent, the risk is too great and the
scene just shouldn't happen?
And if so, who gets to make that
call? Can a community or dungeon decide that
some kinks are too dangerous,
or is that crossing a line into policing
personal
autonomy?
Deep philosophical
questions
about ethics
and morals and responsibility.
Yep.
So
where would you like to start? Y'all are
gonna get my thoughts in real time because
I have not actively
talked through any of this. We'll find out
what I think together. Well,
you know,
it to to me,
they crossed the line.
Mhmm. Okay.
It it's kinda like the thing
with,
erotic fixation.
Asphyxiation?
Yes. Thank you. Right.
You know,
you talk about edge play.
Yeah. And for
somebody who might not be aware of what
edge play is, it is not edging as
play, which is a thing you can do.
But edge play is the kind of play
where you are playing on the edge. Extreme.
Like, it Yeah. Extreme to the point that
it can be life threatening. So electro play
with a pacemaker?
Mhmm. I mean, to me, I I think
it's a no go, but, yeah, maybe. To
to me, in
in my opinion, that is crossing a line.
From the top's perspective, sure. Yeah. Certainly. The
the responsibility
of a top Right. To, like,
actively try to be as risk Mhmm.
Free as possible. You know, one, a top
has the option
to observe the boundaries Right. And limits.
Okay?
But,
you know, this this kind of thing
and I and I know,
you know, people are going to people.
Always.
Mhmm.
And and, you know,
you you see it. You put stuff in
the newsletter. Things that happen Yeah. Don't become
a headline for your
the tabloid,
newspapers in your country of origin. You don't
want that. I I and to me, the
thing that hit me the most
in this was that was because they were
hot.
You know, I'd be curious. I kind of
wish I knew the full context because was
that a joke or was that done in
seriousness?
I know. You know, when I'm not being
charitable, I'm gonna be like, oh, whether it
was a joke or not, that's really, like,
no. It's distasteful, but maybe they didn't mean
it that way. But Mhmm. At first glance,
it minimum is a little distasteful.
Yeah. Let alone that it might be fully
irresponsible.
So, you know, to me,
in in all this, it would have been
it should have been Mhmm. The top's responsibility
to say no. Right. Right. Like No. We
we, you know, we not gonna do this.
Like, I get you. You might be interested.
You know, maybe it's, like, kind of a
hot scary idea. Mhmm. What I would also
be interested in is who suggested it? Who
brought it
up, you know? Mhmm. Because that then tells
you even more potentially about that top or
Right. If a dom out there is doing
something like that.
Now here's the thing, and this is part
of the question of,
like, does the community or the dungeon or
the whatever kinda get a say, can they
step in? That's the real thing because
who the fuck knows what's happening behind closed
doors? And
none of us have any control over what
people are doing in a private space where
nobody is witnessing. Now
hopefully somebody would have gone to their Discord
server and been like, oh my god. I
just had this scene and here's how it
went. And then people could educate them and
be like, you nearly killed somebody. What the
fuck are you doing? Right?
So
knowing that,
I do think that's a harder thing to
and I wanna use the term police, but
to sort of oversee. Now a dungeon, a
play party,
I think you get a lot more leeway
because the people who own that space, who
are responsible for that space, get to set
rules. And as long as they communicate those
rules, so everybody has an opportunity to, you
know, play within them, abide by them, or
choose to leave because they don't want want
to. Right. You know, I think that I
think,
personally,
I would not be uncomfortable
with a a dungeon monitor, a host of
a play party, or whoever
stepping into a scene
to go, you are not Mhmm. This is
not just, yeah, all BDSM is risky. This
is
actively life threatening if you or active harm.
The thing you and I were talking about
earlier about
the difference between all kink has risks. There's
no such thing as safety, full safety, no
risks in kink. All of it's all of
it's risky
versus
that specific action you are taking has a
such a high
chance of risk and real danger that it
is literally actively on the don't list when
somebody teaches you how to do this activity.
True. True. It is the thing you're not
supposed to do. People who know better will
tell you. That kind of high risk. And
there there's difference between And, you know, the
the dungeons absolutely.
I I know,
at some point in certain dungeons,
if you were going to do a a,
a very risky or extreme
scene,
a lot of times the before you do
the scene,
the dungeons will ask you, you know, come
talk to us.
Sometimes depending on the scene. Yeah. Let us
know what's going on, because that way if
somebody comes to us and say,
hey, this is
a little much, don't you think? They know
that it's part of what is supposed to
happen. Right. And that's if you know you
are purposely playing with something that's got a
lot of risk associated with it. Correct. Here's
the thing that I you know, in terms
of what a a dungeon could do or
a a play party host could do, they
would also have to actively know that the
bottom had a pacemaker though. True. That's really
hard to, like, oversee.
You know, again
Yeah. You you you know yeah. You you
can't know everybody's medical history. No. And I
don't I'm not comfortable with the world where
we ask for
people's medical history in order to come into
the dungeon just because that shit's private and
Yeah. You know? But also, when we start
talking about who has should somebody, like, assume
responsibility for stopping this, you have to know
all of you either have to know all
of the details or you have to see
something or sense something where you think you
should at least ask the question, hey, are
you doing this as
risk
free?
You know, risk aware as possible. Right? Like
if I saw two people playing with a
Electraplay,
short
of hearing the not kind good kind of
screams or hearing a safe word get disregarded,
it would I would not clock it as
something I need to Right. Pay attention to
and go, wait, that looks risky. Now if
you know the person, you're like, what are
they doing? They got a fucking pacemaker. I
was just in the waiting room for that,
you know? Yeah. I took them to the
fucking hospital that day. That's different. But that's
the thing. That's why it's tricky
to place an obligation
on a community to police it because you
have to know in that specific situation, you
have to know information. Now Mhmm. As we
were prepping for this episode, I did start
thinking of things where, wait, maybe somebody could
know
at from the outside Right. Without, like, knowing
somebody's private information and be able to
intervene. And and here I have in my
notes Mhmm. I have examples. Yeah. These are
the ones I could think of. Okay. One
is using a wax
that is not considered
the the air quotes safest wax for wax
place. So soy to paraffin, anything kind of
within those temperature ranges or lower. Anything Right.
That
is even milder than soy. Perfect. Into something
like beeswax. Right. Now you would have to
know the person's playing with beeswax, but,
you know, people will tend to talk about
their scenes if they're doing them in public,
and you can maybe learn that. Now If
I know you're using beeswax
and I and we are in a space
that I am responsible for, or we something.
Yeah. I think it's important to go, do
you know that that is not a good
idea? Now, X brought up a good thing,
and, you know, I if you're
in
and you plan on doing electro play, I
think that is a good good thing because,
you know, even when you're doing a negotiation
for any kind of scene, you know, are
you on any kind of medication that would
have Absolutely. That's not even a question.
Electro play, yes. Tell the person you got
a pacemaker so the other person can go,
well, guess what we're not fucking doing.
What I'm talking about is walking into the
dungeon saying, hey, we're gonna do an electro
play scene. Mhmm. Is there an obligation on
the part of the dungeon to go Now,
maybe this is it. Do either of y'all
have pacemakers
because here's what you need to know. They
don't have to answer, do you have a
pacemaker? Right. Or maybe,
you know, if a space
puts up, like, notifications of, hey,
here's what we don't want you doing on
our premises
and electro play if you have a pacemaker
being on the list. But here's the thing,
this is why
weird fucking,
instructions are put on things
because some dumbass thought what they needed to
do was to touch the chainsaw blade while
it was still going. You know what I
mean? Like Or or stick their hand under
the mower. Right. Because somebody did something stupid
and now a company is trying to,
reduce their liability. Mhmm. And that would be
the other thing I would think of, and
this is a very capitalistic
reason for a community or an organization to
take responsibility for something like this.
What liability does the
location
possess
if Right. And and and that is something
you can search. I don't know. I don't
know anything about that, you know. And and
what would the what what would the top
who did this
face if something had happened? And I will
say I think that I know that there
are people who
and Rah Rah might have one through Pink
Kink. I'm not sure. That,
there are
legal professionals who will sometimes do workshops that
happen to be kinky and go Mhmm. Here's
some of what you need to know. And
I don't I'm not gonna pretend I know
any of that. But I Right. I could
see where a dungeon might think about that,
especially if they have to go through the
horror of it happening Right. On their watch.
So, yeah. The example I thought of first
was the hot wax. If you actively know
the person is using what we would consider
a very dangerous
substance for that, a very dangerous wax that
could there's no, like,
it's more of a the chances of you
coming out unscathed are way lower than the
chances of you getting a third degree burn
from that kind of situation. There's also an
impact play. There are and there are a
ton of diagrams across the Internet that will
show you here are the safe zones
for impact play. Correct. Right? And typically, we're
talking, you know, deep muscle areas, the ass,
the thighs, you know, we're we're not we're
not hitting where there's like a spleen or
something. Don't do It's the same thing with
rope, you know, there are there are things
that tell you what nerve, you know, where
you should not tie, where, you know, the
nerves are too close that can do
damage. And that's and that's a thing. If
you are actively witnessing what is questionable behavior,
and we've kind of talked about this in
the past, we're talking about for people who
are going to the dungeon the first time.
It's never okay to interrupt a scene because
you can actually cause more harm than good
that you're trying to do. But that's when
it's like you, the dungeon, you grab a
dungeon master at the
monitor master. Mhmm. I said dungeon master when
I meant dungeon monitor. DM.
That.
Look. Look. The Venn diagram between the
whoever the dungeon master is on dungeon monitor,
that's a circle. I know.
You know, or if you're at a play
party, you could grab the host or whoever
they've designated to be eyes because,
you know,
there should be some expectation of anybody playing
in a public place that at some point,
somebody who is,
responsible
authority in that venue could approach you. Right?
That's a little bit different than some random
stranger you've never seen and you don't know
who they're supposed to be just coming up
going you're doing it wrong and then what
is happening here?
Do I think
dungeons and play parties should have that? From
a personal opinion, yeah. I think they should.
How do
you make that happen? How do you encourage
that? Because here's the thing, we are talking
about people's personal autonomy and a lot of
people take really big fucking risks every day
of their lives,
and they keep doing it while they're unscathed
until one day
it don't work out, and they go, oh,
maybe I shouldn't have done it that way,
you know. And that it's that is a
fine line between,
I don't think you should do that and
I know what harm you could do
versus how much actual control do I have
over this. Mhmm. You know? And I can
want people to not do the foolish thing.
I can actively advise you, don't do the
foolish thing.
Sure. If I don't have any authority in
a space, what am I how do I
stop that? And you know what makes me
nervous about
this
situation too?
And and not that I'm saying this is
a
it's it's a bad thing in a way,
but
nothing happened.
They did the scene and nothing happened. And
that's a scary thing because then there's Because
then, well, we did it we did it
before And we were fine. And nothing happened.
That's called survivor bias.
Yeah.
I I lived through it, so clearly it's
fine. Well, the next time you might not.
So Yeah. But, again, that's where we're back
to personal autonomy. Yeah. You know, bodily autonomy.
You get to do the dumbass thing. Mhmm.
The the the
line,
most of us I I think maybe could
agree, maybe not, is when your dumbass thing
impacts
another person outside of yourself,
that's different. And I think and that's why
I think public spaces like dungeons and parties
have
a lot of fucking leeway.
But
the parties and the dungeons have to be
run by people who
have a a wide enough community and a
wide enough knowledge base to be able to
think of these things, to know who to
ask, to figure out how they're gonna do
their best to minimize as much risk as
possible.
And the reality is whether you're hosting a
space or online,
in person, when you are around people, you
cannot think of every dumbass fucking thing they
could do Yeah. As well. So
when we think about the responsibility
of the space to mitigate risk,
you know, I think we do have to
be careful that that we don't assume that
if risk happened that we know looking back
definitely shouldn't have happened. Mhmm. Is this because
it was poor a poorly run space or
is it because Yeah. That creative human who
just got hurt did something nobody could have
thought of? I mean, you know, just like
I've I've been to to some local parties
here. And, you know, at the at the
beginning,
before the party even
starts Mhmm. You know, the host will kinda
gather everybody around and say, you know,
this this these are the house rules. Right.
Right. This, you know, you
we,
you know, consent,
negotiate.
Right. You know?
And, you know, I
especially if you're hosting a party in your
damn house Mhmm. Because I don't think your
homeowner's insurance liability coverage is gonna give a
fuck that almost
other grown adults that they right. Yeah.
Because we at least here in The States,
we are a lawsuit happy folk. Okay? Yeah.
But, you know, there's
I think if you are I think you
can lay out
specific things. Right? Like, if you know of
them, like, you need to use the proper
equipment
to do the kink scene or we will
step in and start asking questions. Right?
The known things like
erotic
asphyxiation
can easily go too far. Right? But
I
think
I also don't wanna stress hosts and and
dungeon
folk out so much that they just don't
even have the space. I think it's a
you have to learn as you go. These
rules and these things that you will and
won't accept and how you're gonna handle them
are gonna evolve over time. But if you
start
if you start from a place that most
people are gonna just try their best and
do their best and weird shit will happen,
but they're trying. And but there will always
be one
dumbass.
It's a it's one one of many reasons
I'm not running out to have a public
space because how do you walk the fine
line between most people are doing their best
and anything that happens is a freak thing.
Right. And also
protect
the space from that one dumbass who's gonna
show up. Because they
they always are eventually. Yeah.
You know, I
I think it's the most helpful thing that
seems the most pragmatic to me is conversations
in your community spaces online, in person where
you're talking about these situations,
not direct necessarily directly with the person who
did it. If you can, great.
Please try to educate them. But to talk
to other people because other people are gonna
you know,
as much as we all of us encourage
somebody who's new to a kink to please
go research it and maybe do a workshop
and, you know, learn what the the the
real risks are so you can, you know,
whatever whatever. There's always gonna be somebody who
was shopping online at night and went, oh,
I've heard of that. Buy the toy and
then their partner
and not even have read the instruction manual
of the toy. Right? But if we can
have these conversations
about what it what
you as an individual or we as a
community, you know, what is acceptable, what's not,
what's what do we mean when we say
risk, right, versus high risk,
there will be people who can, in the
periphery, who will, like, through osmosis, get some
of that information and they'll hear something that
they didn't know. They'll be the lucky one
who got bug zapped by their partner and
lived to tell the tale, but then go,
oh, yeah. Maybe I need to learn about
that. And that's when they go, oh, shit.
I have a pacemaker. Why'd you come at
me? Don't do that. You know? Some of
that has to be experiential. You have to
be
in spaces where you can learn from other
people, and the people there just gotta talk
about,
to the extent you're comfortable with it, your
own experiences and what you know and what
you've learned the hard way. And but, you
know, there's no way to force everybody to
know everything.
Mhmm. There's no way to police what anybody
does in private. No. You just you just
can't.
None of us can. An Anisa brought up
a a very
good point had that, you know, I don't
think either one of us really considered. Mhmm.
You know, know, what if something had happened?
Could you imagine
what the top
would be? So I'm gonna give my charitable
view.
I'm gonna assume the top really is well
meaning regardless
of yeah. They almost died, but they're hot,
so it's okay, Connor. Alright. I'm gonna assume
they're well meaning. Yeah. That would have been
one person's life either would have been over
or they would have been severely injured. Right.
That's already the thing they have to deal
with. And then the person who did it
to them?
Whew.
Yeah. That's that's traumatizing. That's traumatizing. And see
this you know, we the conversation in our
discourse are we really did focus on the
public spaces because I think we all understand
that's where the control
might lie for these things.
But I think in terms of
trying to educate people, so you think about
these things in as ethical and as responsible
a way that you possibly can with the
information you have.
The
I'm less concerned about did the dungeon stop
a thing because, again, in that specific scenario,
how would they have known somebody had a
pacemaker. Right? Yeah. Especially if both partners are
enthusiastically
consenting. I'm hoping it was enthusiastic and it
was not pressure.
So,
you know, I'll get the the public space
has all the leeway because that's a thing
they couldn't have known until afterwards.
The thing to keep talking about and to
keep to to make it a thing of,
like, here are expectations
for
good and responsible
doms and tops, is that the ultimate response?
Okay. The ultimate responsibility is on the person
who is having the thing done to them
to know what the risks are and to
actually understand what they're consenting to. But
empower
dynamics,
it is absolutely a responsibility
of the top slash dom
to go that no. That's that is so
potentially unsafe. I I don't wanna do it
to you, but I don't wanna traumatize myself
either. And that's the
I think it's a two pronged thing. If
public community spaces are saying this is unacceptable,
we will not accept this level of risk
to a person. I don't care how enthusiastically
you are consenting.
And also as people like us, people in
you know, at your munches and you're talking
about
what you think makes a good dom or
what you think makes a good scene. And
we're talking about the ethics and responsibility
of a top
knowing
the severity of the risk
and still doing it.
You know, a little bit of embarrassment and
shunning, sometimes people learn from that. Again, you
will never be able to control what they
go off and do
when no one's around. But Mhmm. You know
yeah. I just
it's Yeah. I I mean,
you unfortunately, you're not gonna stop people completely.
You know, if they are unable to do
it in public spaces There's no go to
their house. They're gonna go somewhere, you know.
Right.
And that is a fine line. That is
another reason I don't want to own and
operate a public space because,
you know, you have to walk that line
of, do I want to keep even the
dumbasses coming in so I can keep an
eye on them? But at what point are
they so unsafe?
I gotta let them go because I have
a responsibility to everybody else in the building.
Right. Yeah. Those are pressures I don't personally
want at this stage in life because it
should be pressure. It it should be stressful
to try and figure out how you walk
that line to keep the maximum amount of
people safe and, you know,
hopefully
not have
that one dumbass come in and severely hurt
somebody, whether it's themselves or somebody else.
You know? And I think most good spaces
that I hear about,
you know,
obviously, my our primary experiences, what we hear
about across The US, but, you know, in
other countries as well, is those
spaces where education is as much a part
of that dungeon, that community center, that whatever
as the play. Right? There's a component that
they go together.
Even, you know, back when we were in
the Tampa Bay area,
the local dungeon was really small and it
was it was privately owned.
And the Munch was hosted by other people,
but the people who ran the Munch knew
a lot of people would go to this
club if they if they were welcome and
they could get in. And so the Munch
was like, okay. Let's bring in people who
can do demos. Let's bring in people who
can talk and teach you how to do
this stuff. Because we already know you have
access to a space even if we don't
control the space. Right. We can offer this
to try to help people avoid as much
risk as possible Correct. And to play,
you know, knowing what they need to know.
Right. To make educated decisions Right. To the
best of their ability. Yes. Now in thinking
of this specific situation
that started this whole discussion, what what I
desperately would want to know
is how enthuse what did the bottom know
about electroplay?
Yeah. And how enthusiastic was that consent? Mhmm.
Yeah. Did they know that somebody with a
pacemaker should just don't, just don't, just don't,
just don't.
Or
were they not aware of that part?
Or,
you know, were they,
air quote, convinced that this would be fine,
especially by somebody who maybe has gone, I've
done it all the time. You know, I
don't I don't know. That's that's a lot
more telling to me. You know? That's true.
Because then
that's where it goes back to the top.
That Yeah. That that would have been a
a full failing on their part.
When we talk about somebody who, in this
case, has the pacemaker and knows it's a
bad idea and makes the choice anyway,
the only
actionable thing is
is it allowed in the space that you're
in? Does somebody else control that space? And
can they can they say, this is a
thing we don't allow here? Because it goes
against best practices we already teach. Because it's
you know, this is a a risk of
bodily harm that's greater than any of us
want to bear the burden of that responsibility.
You can go home and bear the burden
of it, but not in our space here.
True. True. Right? Because people who are running
a space like that, whether it's a play
party host and it's your damn house, do
think about your liability insurance,
or
or, you know, a dungeon,
they do have to think about everybody in
there, not just that one person. Mhmm. So
I think
it is perfectly acceptable to go certain things
aren't allowed.
Yeah. The rub is, is it something they
can know about ahead of time? Right.
Right. I mean, yeah. I you know, just
like just like people,
you know,
dungeons
and and, you know,
spaces like that, they are allowed to have
their own
boundaries. They have to. Right. You know, like,
part of, like, what I I said in
the conversation on online,
you know, they they have to the clubs,
they have to adhere to state laws Yes.
In order to operate. Yes. You know? So
they they have to follow certain guidelines
with the state to keep open. And if
they've got business insurance,
there'll be some guidelines there too. Right. That
insurance Re regardless. You know?
Yep. So
And, you know, I I my idealistic
self hates the fact that we're making rules
not based on what's right or what's ethical
or what's responsible, but, like, how do we
not get sued and, you know, have to
pay out a crap ton of money or
the insurance company that won't insure us if
we allow certain things or, you know Yeah.
But that's the practical side of it, you
know.
If you are a person out there who's
thinking maybe I wanna have a dungeon one
day, those are part parts of it that
you have to consider as well Right. Beyond
just the what's, you know, what's moral to
me and what's right to me.
Yes.
And also
and sometimes the and also from an insurance
company or your state laws or your local
laws Yeah. Can actually
provide a bit of cover. You know? If
your local laws do not allow certain activities
that you wouldn't want in there anyway, it's
it's very easy to go. There's no pushback.
We this is illegal. We're not gonna do
something illegal. Yeah. You know? But
now the the
hard part is
ex and I
I've spent years getting to this point and
to the point I know I sound very
probably heartless and very,
there's a word I want, ambivalent, and I'm
not. I'm I have deep personal feelings about
what I think
people should do. Right? Like, I'm a judgy
bitch on the inside. Right?
In my head, I will have the conversation
about, well, that's a dumbass over there.
But
speaking to
people whose lives I cannot even imagine, for
as long as we have, the thing I
have had to come to accept and to
come to terms with
is I can tell you all day long,
don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do
that. And know that I have not a
lick of fucking control. And if I Excuse
me. Spend more of my time worried about
the people whose actions I can't control at
all, they're gonna do what the fuck they're
gonna do. Because sometimes you gotta fuck around
and then find out.
I'm not actually helping anybody else. I'm, like,
in a constant state of stress of people
are doing things wrong. And, yeah, maybe they
are, but
all I can do is share
my view on it, share my lived experience
on it, share best practices, go here's why
I don't think that's a good idea. Right?
Mhmm.
And hope that the message gets to the
people who need it.
But I can't walk around going, you
know,
letting myself
letting my the way I view the world,
letting the way I interact with people, especially
in the kink community,
be painted with that. Everybody's doing everything wrong
and if they don't do it right because
then then you are just coming across as
the judgmental bitch you are. Even if you're
right, if nobody wants to fucking listen to
you,
who cares? Who cares?
So I am not actually ambivalent to it,
but I just have accepted a lot. You
know, I think it's also raising a child
who would do what the fuck they wanted
no matter what you said. You just get
a little bit, like,
immune to it. Like, yeah. Yeah. Some people,
the moment you tell them
go, that means they must stop because they,
you know, they will not heed advice. They
will not do what they're told.
So Very, very true. You know, how would
I run a space? Yeah. I would have
I would have rules around, okay, you're not
gonna do things that we literally are teaching
you not to do. We're not gonna accept
that. We will, you know, safely safely as
possible stop this scene and you will have
to leave or you'll have to adjust. You
have to do something where we're not gonna
allow this.
And if somebody asks me as we're kind
of doing here, I'm a tell you, don't
do that. Don't do that. You eventually, you're
gonna regret it. Don't do that. You're unsafe
for the person you're playing with. This is
not ethical. This is not responsible. Don't fucking
do that.
And then I'm gonna accept that
people are gonna do it.
I'm gonna hope we reach the people who
just needed to go, oh, shit. I didn't
know that. Okay. I'll take that and I
won't do that, but because I now I
know. Or, oh, I didn't think of it
that way because I haven't had that experience
yet. Right?
So and I know not everybody is as
anxious as I am. I'm I'm always worried
about all of the worst possible outcomes, which
is why I don't do a lot of
things. I'm too worried about the risk. And
some people just don't think about the risk
until they have no choice.
You know? So I think if
whichever side of the slash you're on for
play or for dynamics or for relationships,
you need to figure out where you stand
and then that becomes a line. That's a
line in the sand. If you get somebody
who's like, yeah, yeah,
I know we're not supposed to hit you
where the soft tissue organs are, but I
really wanna hit you there. Well,
nope. Now we're playing outside of my limits
and I know enough as that individual who
has educated myself and had enough experience or
been around enough people and had enough conversations,
then I'm not gonna let you play with
me.
Can't protect the next person who doesn't, but
if we all keep kind of being in
community with our with each other because it's
not just educators and content creators who can
share the message.
It's whoever, you know, if you have that
thought, if you have that experience, if you've
heard this thing on, yeah, I agree with
that, you can have that conversation online with
somebody who wanders in and is like,
yeah. I'd like to pour hot beeswax over
my partner's genitals. You could be the one
to go, don't do that. You know, here's
why. I'll be right back. Did you hear
a doorbell? No. Too bad. You gotta do
something else. So Debbie's leaving me here at
the mic and even somehow,
quite
what
to add there, but that's not me repeating
myself.
I think that,
if you know you're risk averse,
I don't think you should ever feel pressured
to relax all of that risk aversion,
not in ways that make you feel unsafe.
Even if it is considered ethical behavior, even
if it is within the confines of what,
you know, is
best practices of how to do a thing.
If it's a step too far for you,
it's a step too far for you. I
do think if you're the type of person
who
does not worry about risk at all,
BDSM is the one time
to start
worrying about risk a little bit because
everything we do in kink comes with risks.
And most of the time, not all the
time, but most of the time it's gonna
be from a a sloppy moment, a, lack
of focus for two seconds, a a genuine
mistake.
And most of the time, if you're not
a a risk averse person, you're like, whatever.
You're probably gonna be fine through that
most of the time, but it's those big
risks. It's those you could literally be in
the hospital after this. You could be dead.
Mhmm. You could, you know, have third degree
burns. You could, you know, change the course
of your life forever
because you did that, like
and there and if you're like, yeah. But
I I'm not risk averse, so how do
I know? Because it's on the don't list
of how to do the fucking thing. Yeah.
If it's on the don't list, there's a
reason for it. And
if, like, this person, this top we're talking
about and the bottom,
just because they survived at this time is
no guaranteed survival the next time. Good. It's
like playing Russian roulette. And anytime somebody says,
well, I did the thing everybody says not
to do and I'm fine. That I think
I'm using this term right. Somebody correct me.
But I believe that's called survivor bias because
it's
the well, I it's the I lived through
it so it can't be that bad or
I lived through it so it's not a
it's, you know, it's no problem or it's
I lived through it and I will always
live through it.
Not no. No. Not necessarily.
So
anything you would add? Because apparently, I went
off on a tangent and made myself hot
and sweaty. Nope. So let's go back to
our initial questions, make sure we actually sort
of answered them
as much as we want to. Right. God.
Thank you, rah rah, for this. Okay. Is
there a point where even if both people
fully consent, the risk is too great and
the scene just shouldn't happen?
Yes. Yes.
Who gets to make that call?
Can a community or dungeon decide that some
kinks are too dangerous or cross line? Mhmm.
If you control the space, you get to
make those decisions. Let's let us add this
for our some kinks too dangerous.
I don't know how long ago because I
don't even know what time is, but I
recall
semi recently when FetLife
had to wipe
certain kinks completely off the site. Couldn't
mentioned, couldn't be linked to, could no pic
none of it. Couldn't have any of it.
And I remember
Yeah. Kinksters being
livid. And I don't
even
if to me those were very those were
extreme kinks. Other people would go, no. Not
if you know what you're doing. And blah.
Right? And I understood people's anger,
but I also understood where FetLife was coming
from because
they had people outside of their control dictating
what they had to do. And so this
is a ripple effect. So FetLife controls its
space,
and it gets to it's it's sandbox. It
FetLife gets to make their own rules, but
they are also controlled in this case by
the payment processors Right. The credit card companies,
the banks, financial institutions.
And as somebody who has been kicked off
many a thing
because we do kink and sex stuff,
financial institutions
don't like kink and sex stuff. Right? Right.
Even if it's it's And and they're responsible
kink and sex. To a certain extent,
you know, you can't blame them. I mean,
things like, you know, was it Weinstein?
Ugh, gross. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Epstein and,
you know, all these things that are happening.
Those people. You know, so
so the banks,
you know, they they wanna Well, do you
wanna know what it really comes from? It's
and I don't know how I don't know
the details on this. But what is said
is that a lot of fraud and a
lot of scams and a lot of theft
comes through high risk
industries and websites, and sex, kink, stuff like
that is in that. In that bracket. Right.
Okay. So that is not fair though to
paint everybody
with the same brush. And Right. Thankfully, there
are companies who are, you know, willing to
work with us so we can still be
in business on the Internet.
But in that case, it was my understanding
was it's fairly big. Financial institutions were dictating
FetLife's
actions. And FetLife said, I wanna continue to
have a sandbox
to play in.
Mhmm. And there is nobody to go to
other than whoever it was. I'm gonna abide
by their rules. And that's such that's gonna
trickle down in some of those cases.
So,
you know, it's where I go back to,
the insurance company of a dungeon
might dictate what they will allow in that
space regardless of the law, regardless of what
the person who owns the space is willing
to do.
And so there will be outside factors just
as much as anything else. So the control
is only
applicable in a space that some in somebody
else's sandbox. Right?
Which is scary because it means a lot
of crazy shit happens behind closed doors, but
that's where all those headlines come from. People
who Yeah. You know, who because
oh, god. I I read one and I
was just like, wait. I learned this lesson
at five. How did you not know this
lesson? They were playing with choking
and asphyxiation
and plastic bag overhead.
I look. I know not everybody has all
of the same access to information.
I do not know how you get to
the big age of, like, 50 or 60.
I can't remember. It's it happens too frequently.
I can't keep up with who all they
were. And you don't know
that
we don't do that. We don't put plastic
bags over our fucking face. Right? Yeah. But
that was behind closed doors, and it made
it out into the public sphere because there
were criminal charges. Yeah. You know? I mean,
if I'm talking to tops and doms, that's
the thing I'd ask you to think about.
I want you to be ethical and responsible
and and care
as much or more about the person you're
about to do a thing to than yourself.
But also, wait, if this goes wrong, am
I gonna get arrested for this? Right.
You know? I mean, I here's the thing.
A person who's willing to, like, flout all
common sense probably is not thinking about that
either, but somebody will. And that's the thing.
We get peoples in people to change in
drips and drabs. You get one at a
time. We can't I can't walk into a
space and 20 dumbasses who are like, yeah.
Let me zit you in the in the
pacemaker.
Not all 20 are gonna agree with me,
but maybe I get five. Well, then maybe
we save five people's lives that day. Right.
You know? And that's
Yeah. It's a it's a ripple effect.
So Yeah. And I mean, you know, you
you don't know what to say in in
a case like this. Is is this a
case of
not being educated?
Mhmm.
Or is this a case of two people
just being
Dumas' and,
Dumas'
Were
you tired of my dumbass? Some way of
saying it.
Look. Look. If you're gonna be a dumbass,
I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. I'm gonna say
dumbass.
Okay? Yeah. My thing is always I'd rather
be a smartass than a dumbass.
And that's my whole life's philosophy.
And you do it well. I do. I
do. I'm very good at it.
But, yeah, that so we go back to
I got paranoid. I had to go look
at our screen, make sure the camera was
still working.
You know, who gets to make that call?
That's a public space thing. Yeah.
Policing personal autonomy.
You know,
when I think about the policing personal autonomy
thing,
it really is
you get to do to yourself whatever the
fuck you want even if I think you're
a dumbass or a demoss.
But when your actions impact somebody else,
and
when we talk about consent, I'll probably I
will give side eye and call both of
them dumb asses. If both
parties of the scene knew the seriousness
of the risks and still did it together,
well, you're both stupid. Okay. I hope you
do not find out now that you fucked
around. I hope that for you because I
don't want anybody to come to harm.
But
the thing I'm gonna lean towards the most
because I think it's the most common
is one party has all the information or
more information
than the other one and is that party
sharing it. So everybody is understanding exactly what
they're consenting to. And that to me is
is
a big problem. How many tops and so
called doms
know what they're not supposed to do
and but they don't they don't make sure
their
question them and go, hey. I know this
is a thing. I know I we can't
do this if you have a pacemaker. Do
you have a pacemaker? Mhmm. And the partner
goes, yeah. I do. And they go, never
mind. Or, you know,
I just and that comes back to the
responsibility side of the individual. And, man,
having to wait for all of the individuals
to have
a healthy level
of responsibility
is
is rough because it's never everybody who's, you
know, not doing what's right. It is a
small few, but they impact all of us.
Tire rules
and regulations
are created because a few people are Dumas'.
Okay?
So yeah.
So that's what
what I would
say. Mhmm.
Anything you would say? No. Anything you would
say?
So,
I got myself heated. You did.
We're gonna do a bonus section. Worked yourself
up a little bit there. Yep. Before we
go into our bonus section, two things.
If you were like, oh, this was a
good topic and, oh, I'm glad we have
this discussion.
Go, like, follow Rara. Go check out the
podcast. Go follow our socials.
Go. Go. The link is in the Right
now. Right now. Do just do what daddy
said.
And, also, if you're like, yeah. I do
need to learn a little bit more about
some things, consider,
the BDSM boot camp. Jump start your BDSM
journey.
At least check it out to see because,
you know,
what it is about is there on the
page. If you're like, yeah. I could use
some of it. It's free. It starts July
14.
I apologize now if you're on our email
list. You will hear about it a few
times.
Okay. We we can go into
the bonus section. Where's that? I don't know
where it is. You're the man who does
the buttons. Mhmm. Without the buttons. I mean,
I just push them because that's what I
do. You do.
So, are we good? I don't know.
Keep it kinky, y'all. And we'll see you
next week.
Daughter.
Mhmm. Can we talk to the crickets?
Can I go run and get a hair
tie?
I'll grab it for you. Do you know
where it is? No.
No. You're not gonna wander this house. See,
I'm happy to send you if you would
prefer to walk away and leave me alone
again. Yeah. But I would like to send
you to the correct place. Okay. Top of
my vanity, there should be a hair tie.
Okay. Thank you. I need to start keeping
some in here. Mhmm. But I also can't
trust that I can keep some in here
because once Onyx finds it
if I'm lucky, I find it the next
day maybe on the floor or, like, a
couple feet away from where I left it,
but sometimes I never see it again.
I made myself
very hot
having that conversation. You know what? I knew
that I would,
because
when I when I finally, like, sat down
and started thinking it through, like, what what
would an episode on this be like, I
started having thoughts. I started having thoughts, and
I could feel the intensity of the thoughts.
And then when I was talking to JB
about it, because actually he was the one
that was like, you know, we should do
that. Let's talk about that.
He started, like, getting a little intense and
I was like, yeah. But now I'm hot
and sweaty as a result.
So what would you like to share with
the class in the bonus section?
So and actually the reason why I wanted
to get it was so I could peek
out the door. You gotta tell folks why
you're peeking out the door and being obsessed
with our front door?
So,
I have a new toy on the way.
Not that kind of toy, y'all? No. No.
Goddamn. I wish.
Wish. Yeah.
My lathe has been dying.
It is dying. If you don't know what
a lathe is, it's a spinning thing. That's
how he's able to, like A wood lathe.
Make handles and make pens and make things
that happen to be round. And all angles
and Mhmm. Make round things. All that kind
of stuff. Mhmm. And,
it's,
it it's been dying, and,
I have a new one on the way.
When you got it, we we were both
under the impression it was a very high
quality brand. It was a well known, but
Mhmm.
And then we learned otherwise. So you actually
got to upgrade Yeah. On this one. Mhmm.
So that was cool. Yes. And, you know,
we are
are and have to be very circumspect about
when we have to replace a tool because
that is a
financial investment.
Mhmm. And sometimes we'll wait well, basically, we'll
mostly wait as long as we can until
we don't have a choice.
But
JB makes a lot of things on the
lathe, but the thing that has the things
that have been the most popular for kinkery,
the kinkery.com,
were suffering as a result. It was harder
to make them. Yeah. And I was like,
but I need you to make me, like,
50 of them. And that's diabolical sticks, that's
evil sticks, that's canes, that's canes of the
red,
resin handles for canes. I was like, no.
No. No. I can't. I literally cannot keep
these in stock. We cannot have a tool
that cannot do the job. Right.
Right. Right. I mean, I did the math.
I was like,
x number of sales, and we've made the
money back for it. So it we have
to do it. Yeah. So it it's on
the way, and,
supposedly, it's supposed to be here
this evening.
Yeah. Because it was coming from Clearwater, which
is not that far away from us.
No.
So,
yeah. That that's what,
kind of that's what I've been waiting on.
Mhmm.
Mhmm. Yep. Yep.
And,
yeah. That's,
kinda been what I've been doing. Yeah.
Yeah. Like a little kid. Mhmm.
You do a thing
at the where you go to the front
door. So our front door, there's also a
window,
like, right in the foyer that you can
kinda look out on one side of the
Mhmm. The neighborhood, the neighbors.
JB pretty much up the street Yeah. JB
loves to just go stand by that window.
I think if you thought you had time
and could kinda get away with it without
people being weird, you would stand out on
the driveway more just to kinda see what's
happening in the neighborhood. Yeah. But you can
do it from the house where, you know
Yeah. It's not hot. And and you know
what? If we had and I often thought
of that because,
my my first house,
I used to love sitting out on the
front front porch.
That house had a front porch, and I
had a little bistro table and, you know,
a couple chairs out there. And I I
used to love to sit out there and
I'm a back porch girly.
Because on the front porch,
somebody's gonna see you and wanna say hi.
Why would I put myself through that? That's
not relaxing. Yeah. JB love I don't know
if you love it, but you give the
impression that you real quick to say hi,
to wave, to we were working in the
garage together pouring cane handles.
And,
it was a time of day when people
are going to work, you know. It's just
Yeah. And JB, every time he saw a
cart, that hand went up. And it did,
It's this big
movement so that people could possibly see it.
And I'm like, nope. Nope. I'm just gonna
sit right here at my little table, and
I'm a stir resin and pretend that They're
they're waving at me, so I'm not gonna
be, you know, I'm gonna because you are
the one. They I'm pretty I don't sure
they don't have any opinion of me in
general, but any any of them that might,
it's mostly that I am probably a bitch.
I am I am superficial
figure you're a figment of my imagination. No.
They see me too often. Look, I'm not
I have the ability, as much as I
might hate it, most of the time,
if if a neighbor comes up, I can
be the superficially polite, but then I'm running
for the hills. Every once in a while,
there's a day I just can't do it.
Like, I, I don't I I can't. It's
not a I don't want to. It's an
I can't.
But
if I know that I can, I will?
I'm not, you know, because look. The thing
about
a neighborhood where
it's pretty steady, most people are there for
literal years.
There could come a point at any time,
at any point where one of us needs
the other.
And I'm not gonna alienate any fucking body.
Now I'm not gonna try and wave to
them and be friendly. But I, you know,
I want them to know I exist and
I'm not a complete bitch. You know?
A partial bitch? I think we can all
be forgiving of a slight bitch.
But, like, if something happened, I, you know,
I do need to, like, know what the
neighbor looks like to know. Can I run
across the street? Can somebody help me pick
JB up off the ground or something? I
don't know.
But but, you know, the nice thing is
the the neighbors that you will have the
best relationships with where you talk the most
and it
they're the ones I like the best. Mhmm.
Is it because we have similar politics, maybe?
We're like this little blue dot on our
street, and there's, like, at least three houses,
and we There's Sometimes we come together and
go over the probably, what, about
several dozen houses on the street? On this
street, I would say no more than two
dozen.
And, out of that, there's there's like three,
maybe four of us.
Mhmm.
Yeah.
So, you know,
but,
yeah. And, you know, I've been work doing
a lot in the shop Mhmm. As much
as I can with the heat. Mhmm.
I have been digging through the garage.
I love it when you use up wood
that you forgot you even know. I've I've
I've just been digging through stuff. I've you
know, no. It it's it's,
I'm I'm on this. It's time to clean
the clutter.
Mhmm. Well, and, you know, it's summer time
normally, I would say summer time is our
slow time, and then we had an excellent
June. Mhmm. Our summer sale helped, but we
had an excellent June. So I don't know
what the rest of the summer's gonna bring.
But in summer,
short of wood lathes dying, we try not
to spend
a lot if we can. Even though that's
also the time we need to be preparing
for the holidays, which is very frustrating.
But I've noticed in the summer,
primarily, that is when you tend to focus
on your scrap piles and what do I
have because then we don't have to go
to the saw mill and we can we
can get some stuff out, you know, and
clear some shelves and, you know, stuff like
that. Because a lot a lot of times,
you know, working with the stuff, it's gonna
be, you know, have a piece left over
and, like, okay. Well, I'll set this over
here for right now and get to it
later. And, you know, and the next time
up, I'll set this over here and get
get to it later. And and, you know,
I I I often tease him because he'll
go, I forgot I had this. And I'm,
like, I how many times have I heard
that? But I get how that happens. When
you're a creative and you're constantly making stuff,
you gotta stash things, and then you've already
moved on to the next project, so you
forgot what that stash was. You have a
usually, you have a good habit of when
you know you gotta put something to the
side, it's not work you're not working on
it right then. You usually take, like, a
pencil and label it with what you intend
for it to be Right. Which
he had to learn the hard way that
I I don't know how to change direction
in midstream.
If you labeled the wood for one type
of paddle and now you're telling me it's
another type of paddle,
I need a minute to process that because
the label says
it's supposed to be this.
Just saying. Yeah.
Yeah.
Panda said in the live chat, the summer
slump for small businesses and content creators is
very real. Yeah. So true. And the it's
I still I know as a content creator
that there's a summer slump, and every summer
I go, oh my god. Do people just
now hate us? Because it gets so slow
in the summer. And then I have to
do the no. No. No. It's
at least for
Northern Hemisphere. Is that how the globe works?
It's summer for us.
Where I'm like, no. No. No. It's summer.
People are off doing shit. Like, they've got
people who with kids. We've got kids at
home now, and there's holidays and there's vacations
and all the shit going on. Nobody cares
in the summer.
So if you are a person who is
still keeping up with your content,
in the summer, we appreciate you because sometimes
you're like, is is this thing on? Is
anybody here?
But every every year, ten plus years,
because I've been doing content since before the
podcast.
Ten plus years every summer, I have that
thought of, oh, god. They hate me now.
I finally did it. I finally found the
the breaking point. I still don't know what
it was, but it's probably something stupid I
said in the last episode.
And, no, it's just the summer slump. So
the small business summer slump and the content
creator summer slump simultaneously
can be a little stressful.
But, yeah, our, our
June
sales for the kinkery,
because I I tracked that shit year over
year, quarter over quarter. Like, I'm watching it.
June is usually the worst month of the
year. If you saw our financials, you'd be
like, how'd you pay the mortgage that month?
Right. Bad.
Best best June we've ever had,
best sales of the year Yeah. Month monthly
sales. I was like, how is June the
best month so far? And we haven't had
bad months. Like, we're we're doing kind of
okay.
I don't know. And knock on wood on
all that. I do not wanna fucking jinx
us. But
no.
So yeah.
Little inside baseball frame.
Oh my god. My,
my mother
called me today and wanted to give the
the 15 year old will be 16 in
September.
The 19 year old will be 20 in
a couple of fucking weeks. Yeah. Jesus Christ.
But my mom wanted to give the 15
year old a dog
for their birthday. And I was like,
you wanna give me a dog is what
you're saying because
who's gonna feed it? You know, or you,
really, JB. Who's gonna feed it? Who's gonna
make sure it gets what it need? Who's
gonna take it to the vet? I had
to,
yeah, kill it before I can see it.
JB left the camera so he could go
kill something that's clearly crawling.
Oh, and whatever he sprayed, it made a
sound, and I hope that was not indicative
of what he sprayed.
Okay. Good.
And I I said and I said,
the reason we don't have a second dog
right now is I'm not taking on the
vet care, the the food, the cost of
that. That's, we're not gonna do that right
now.
And my mom goes I said, also, the
15 year old is actually more comfortable with
cats than dogs. This might not be a
good idea. I will ask. This would not
be allowed to be a surprise.
Mhmm. And my mom's like, well, I'll help
pay for the vet care if if the
15 year old wants the dog. I'm like,
first of all, would Lola like that? We
are not getting a second dog. I have
to let her know,
text her back, and be like, no dog.
Yeah.
Well, yeah. Interesting thing to talk about this
morning. Thing to consider too, you know, like
I said, when when you were talking about
it with me Mhmm. You know, you can't
just bring a dog. You know, is Lola
gonna get along with another dog or you
know? And that really was the first thing
I said. You know, and the cats too.
And, you know But then a second, it
was like cost cost cost. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Because we want we do want a second
dog Mhmm. But cost. So we've talked about
we'd love we would be willing to foster.
Right.
The problem is is that
the places we know we could foster from
tomorrow, they do not provide
the
the supplies, the vet the I think they
might supply the vet care, but not, like,
the food or whatever. Correct.
The the place we got Lola from, they
would take care of everything. They pay for
everything. Everything,
but
we would have to commit to so many,
events. And it's not the events, I think,
that bother us. It's the it's a drive.
It's Yeah. It I mean, it's not the
worst drive. We do it for the the
oldest now, but it's still, like, the commitment
is multiple weekends until this dog is would
be adopted. Right.
And we're constantly going, and we have to
go to the vet in where they are,
not where we are. Mhmm. I was like,
if I, if I could find, like, a
pity rescue that is
here local
Mhmm. That would kinda do sign me the
fuck up, assuming Lola was okay with it.
Yeah.
Yeah. Because we're not here to stress our
old girl out
any more than we already do.
So
but, yeah, that was it was a it
was an I was like, my mother's trying
to give me a live animal. Like, what?
This is not a conversation we've had before.
The time to try to give children a
puppy is when they're, like, you know, in
in my world, like, five or six, not
not 16.
But
yeah. It's interesting. So Yeah.
Yeah. You know me. I could
and keep us going for literal hours and
say nothing
until a random thought popped in my head.
But I'm I'm I'm ready to You were
you were ready for the the you you
should stand up with a sign. I'm gonna
go sit by that window. I'm gonna grab
a chair and sit by that window and
watch for the for the truck to roll
down the road. If it wasn't so damn
humid outside, you'd sit in the driveway, wouldn't
you? Probably. Yep. Yep. I believe it. Sit
in the driveway with the garage door up,
and they're right in here.
I hope that it it comes as planned
and that tomorrow, however quick Yeah. Quick it
long it takes, you are playing with your
new tool slash toy.
Yep. That's what I hope for you. We
shall see.
Okay. I guess we should stop now. Yeah.
One of these days, I'm gonna just do
that. I'm just going live. We're just gonna
sit here and it'll be random or it'll
be quiet, but we're just here together. I'm
not I'm not there yet. Okay, y'all. Thanks
for, being here with us. Yeah. Especially to
the bitter end. Mhmm. Mhmm. Always happy to
have you hang out with us. Yep. I
hope, you know, we gave you some food
for thought on this topic,
you know, something to consider for the future.
And,
we'll talk to y'all later. Mhmm. Okay. Alright.
Bye. Bye.