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You're listening to the Living BDSM podcast. Kayla

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Lords here with the one, the only,

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the guy who is definitely feeling his dom

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self, John Brownstone. Yeah.

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You were stern with me.

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Yeah.

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You haven't been stern

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without there being tension in a very long

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time.

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You get stern when we're tense with one

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another. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's like how you

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This was a little different though, wasn't it?

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It's different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah. But that's not why we're here. No.

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I and I do have thoughts about it,

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but they're not appropriate and will get me

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in trouble. So

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we're just not gonna go there.

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This week, we're answering a question from a

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kinky couple who wants to explore consensual nonconsent

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and wants to make sure they start from

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the best possible place.

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Welcome to the Loving BDSM podcast. If you're

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new here, we help kinksters like you have

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happy, healthy power exchange relationships.

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Add the podcast to your favorite podcast app

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so you never miss an episode. And if

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you'd like us to answer a question that

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you have in a future,

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one of these episodes,

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you can use our contact page on our

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website. It's labeled ask your questions, and our

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website is lovingBDSM.net.

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That's lovingBDSM.net

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or use the link in the show notes.

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Okay. Here we go. I, female twenty six,

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have been with my dom, male thirty three,

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for a little over a year now. We've

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been doing various kinky activities, bondage, sensation play,

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forced orgasms, etcetera, for the whole time we

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have been together. We have recently started talking

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about our shared interest in C and C,

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consensual nonconsent.

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I have little experience in practicing kink with

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a partner before this relationship and my partner

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has been practicing kink for years.

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When we discussed wanting to experiment in some

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CNC, my partner told me he might find

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it difficult with me because he would be

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afraid of hurting me. I hate when people

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see me as weak or fragile, but I

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also know that's not how he meant it.

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He is incredibly caring and kind. I call

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him a service dom. And to my knowledge,

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he has not done CNC related things with

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his long term partners before.

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Do you have any tips or suggestions on

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where we could start, what activities we could

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do to start slow, or what things we

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should discuss to make both of us feel

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safe and confident?

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We will, of course, discuss this more, but

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would love some outside ideas to bring to

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the table.

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First thing that comes to my mind, like,

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with anything else is educate yourself

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on the on the topic. On what CNC

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is and can be. Yeah. For sure. And,

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you know, how how people navigate it.

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Look for groups on on FetLife. Mhmm. Alright?

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I am sure there are is a myriad

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of groups

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in in FetLife.

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Look for workshops. There could be virtual workshops

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online

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in regards to to CNC.

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You know, those are all things that are

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important,

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you know.

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Kudos for wanting to take that step to

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try it, but, you know, educate yourself in

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in what it's all about. Mhmm. You know,

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especially since you're fairly new to this, and

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even though your your

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d type is is experienced, have been in

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lifestyle, that this is something they may not

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have done. Mhmm.

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So Okay. I agree completely, like, as always.

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Have we have I ever disagreed with you?

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I don't think so. The other thing and

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I think this sort of piggybacks off of

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what where you started with it, which was

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the education. Once you have and you may

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already. Right? If you're

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if you know that the concept of consensual

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nonconsent exists, you likely already have some ideas

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in your head of what that means.

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As you're educating yourself and then definitely once

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you feel like you've maybe got a grasp

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on what it can mean,

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the one of the first things I would

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say after that is figure out what you

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think it means to you. And what I

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say when I say what you think it

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means, it's because there's a very good chance

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you'll have this idea, this picture in your

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head. You'll try it and be like, nope.

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That's not for me. And you might adjust.

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Right? So

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get clear individually and then together about

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what

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you are curious about with CNC.

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You know, we practice a form of a

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type of free use Mhmm. That's pretty mild,

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pretty subtle,

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but, you know, CNC can go from something

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like that up to

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some from it's a subjective, but I would

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call extreme sort of fantasies,

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that can involve, you know, kidnappings and just

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Right. All kinds of stuff. So

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try to figure out what

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this means to you and what is intriguing

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to you.

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Once you have that thought, then you kind

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of back it up, in my opinion, to

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okay. What are baby steps to this? What

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are ways that maybe we can try some

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of this without going into a full blown

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scene just to see if we're comfortable with

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this, if this vibes with us, if we

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have an immediate negative reaction or immediate positive

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reaction?

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So let's say you're into the idea of

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full free use. Your partner can

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do what he wants with you sexually maybe

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or in some other way when he wants.

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Okay. Well, I don't think I would go

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from never allowing that to, sure. Fuck me

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whenever you feel like it. That's a zero

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to 60 kind of thing. I would play

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with it. I would create maybe signals or

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scheduled time when this is when you as

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the submissive are open to it or know

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that you, you know, you don't know what

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will happen. Maybe you don't even know when

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it'll happen, but you know something could happen.

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Always always from these experimental points up to

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whatever CNC

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looks like for you, you always play with

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a safe word. There is a massive misconception

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that because you're playing with consensual nonconsent

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that you forego the ability to revoke consent.

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Uh-uh. Uh-uh. There should absolute especially

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when you're new, but I just think everybody

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always, you need some sort of safe word,

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safe gesture,

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some signals,

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more than one would probably be ideal, so

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that

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either one of you can go, woah, woah,

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nope, This this went too far. But you

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could still play in small ways. So go

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back to the free use example.

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You wanna build up to

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fuck me, do whatever you want to me.

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Whenever you want to me, you can surprise

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me with it. Okay?

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My suggestion would be think of what that

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means and then maybe back that up to

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what activity is kind of small, kind of

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you you know how you are with each

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other when it's

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overtly consensual. Right?

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And then plan a time when it is

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possible that that thing could happen. You still

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leave the control with your partner,

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but you

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know that it's possible. One, that gives you

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the opportunity to speak up in case it

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becomes a bad time. You know? No. Don't

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do it when you have a migraine. No.

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Don't do it when you've got a deadline

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at work and you don't have a choice.

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Like,

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you know, you got a real life is

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will interfere at times.

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And even if you both imagine something consensually

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violent appearing that's, you know, air quote this

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word again because it's subjective, extreme,

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start with gentle.

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Start with

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I'm just gonna do this thing during our

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appointed time that we've set up to try

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this,

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but it's not gonna involve all of your

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other kinks. It's gonna be

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you know, from the outside looking in, it

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might even appear to you to be, air

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quote, vanilla. Right? It's not gonna include forced

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orgasms and bondage and this and that. It's

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just gonna be the basics of that activity.

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Or it could be and, again, I'm using

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the free use example because it's an easy

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one because

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CNC

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fantasies

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are are varied. There are so many ways

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to do it.

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Maybe it maybe free use isn't just fucking

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for you. Maybe it is just tie me

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up and leave me there. Well, okay. Pick

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the activity,

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set the time when it could happen,

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play with it, have all your safe words

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signal.

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Let your partner, you know, doms check-in,

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especially when when you're new to it, especially

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when you're trying it.

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And then afterwards,

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after whatever aftercare you do, after you've had

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time to kind of, like, process,

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then you do a a check-in with one

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another and you talk about it. Did you

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like this? Did you not like that? What

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what could we do different? What can we

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add? What do we need to take away?

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Was this just a no for you and

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you never wanna do that again? And that's

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both sides of the slash. You don't need

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to be a part of that conversation and

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have opinions there.

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Because it's possible you love every second of

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it and your dom's like, I I can't.

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I just can't do this. This isn't for

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me. And he gets to have,

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you know, the ability to withdraw consent just

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as much as you do.

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But that's what I would say. I would

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I'm I'm big into the break it down

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to the smallest possible element you can think

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of

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and then

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schedule things, make time for things, know that

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they're coming

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so that,

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you know, you can set aside time, you

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can rearrange your life a little bit,

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and then once you become comfortable with an

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activity or you you expand upon it, right,

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then you can decide if you wanna let

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go and go whenever

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this, whatever that, how like,

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yes, then. But until then, keep it very

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small, very slow, very basic with lots and

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lots and lots of check ins and and

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communication and debriefings and continue to educate yourself,

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continue to, like, find people online or in

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person if you have access to an in

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person community

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to talk about these things with because everybody

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has their own quirk and way

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for people who do CNC. Everybody's got their

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own way of doing it and the things

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that,

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work for them that might not work for

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somebody else. And the more you can hear

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from different people about how they do it,

269
00:09:49,950 --> 00:09:52,110
it, more you can pull ideas or realize

270
00:09:52,110 --> 00:09:54,429
very quickly, oh, yeah. Nope. Nope. Didn't like

271
00:09:54,429 --> 00:09:56,750
that. Not interested in that. Mhmm. And it

272
00:09:56,750 --> 00:09:58,029
it can help you narrow it down a

273
00:09:58,029 --> 00:10:00,190
bit too. Yep. One thing I like to

274
00:10:00,190 --> 00:10:01,730
throw in here with all this,

275
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when when when

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doing CNC,

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00:10:05,485 --> 00:10:06,725
you know, a lot of times when you

278
00:10:06,725 --> 00:10:07,705
do that, you are,

279
00:10:08,245 --> 00:10:09,625
dipping your toes into

280
00:10:10,004 --> 00:10:12,504
unknown territory. Oh, yes. Okay?

281
00:10:13,845 --> 00:10:15,785
Be aware of landmines,

282
00:10:16,245 --> 00:10:18,504
it's what we call hidden triggers. Mhmm.

283
00:10:18,850 --> 00:10:19,870
Okay? Mhmm.

284
00:10:20,610 --> 00:10:23,970
Uncovering something like that is entirely possible because,

285
00:10:23,970 --> 00:10:25,190
you know, let's not forget,

286
00:10:25,730 --> 00:10:28,230
d s, especially going into something like that,

287
00:10:28,690 --> 00:10:30,769
it's not just physical, it's also mental and

288
00:10:30,769 --> 00:10:31,990
emotional. Mhmm.

289
00:10:32,454 --> 00:10:34,454
So those are that is something you want

290
00:10:34,454 --> 00:10:36,454
to be aware of. And if you know

291
00:10:36,454 --> 00:10:37,514
that you have triggers

292
00:10:38,454 --> 00:10:40,454
that things either one of you, things from

293
00:10:40,454 --> 00:10:42,294
your past, things that can set you off,

294
00:10:42,294 --> 00:10:44,214
things that are just not good for you

295
00:10:44,214 --> 00:10:46,954
mentally, emotionally to be playing in,

296
00:10:47,709 --> 00:10:49,870
If you haven't already had those conversations, you

297
00:10:49,870 --> 00:10:52,029
need to be having those conversations because, yes,

298
00:10:52,029 --> 00:10:53,870
for both of you, you need to avoid

299
00:10:53,870 --> 00:10:56,690
that because that is one of the risks

300
00:10:56,750 --> 00:10:59,149
of kink that just don't get enough mention.

301
00:10:59,149 --> 00:11:01,309
We talk about the physical risks, and there

302
00:11:01,309 --> 00:11:03,644
are many. But the mental and emotional ones

303
00:11:03,644 --> 00:11:04,384
of hitting

304
00:11:04,685 --> 00:11:06,685
a trigger, hitting a landmine as JB calls

305
00:11:06,685 --> 00:11:08,925
it, that you didn't know was there, and

306
00:11:08,925 --> 00:11:10,764
it's happening in this moment when you're both

307
00:11:10,764 --> 00:11:12,685
extremely vulnerable and one of you is probably

308
00:11:12,685 --> 00:11:15,245
naked, just how things tend to work. And,

309
00:11:15,245 --> 00:11:18,144
you know, your brain might have gone offline

310
00:11:18,285 --> 00:11:18,690
a little

311
00:11:19,330 --> 00:11:21,169
bit, and now you're yanked back. Like, it's

312
00:11:21,330 --> 00:11:22,230
it can be

313
00:11:23,490 --> 00:11:25,250
oh, it can mess you up. And that

314
00:11:25,250 --> 00:11:26,929
doesn't mean you can't recover from it. It

315
00:11:26,929 --> 00:11:28,450
doesn't mean that you can't ever do that

316
00:11:28,450 --> 00:11:30,370
activity again. It doesn't mean you have to

317
00:11:30,370 --> 00:11:32,370
know your triggers before they occur, but you

318
00:11:32,370 --> 00:11:33,764
do have to know it's possible.

319
00:11:39,684 --> 00:11:40,184
Mitigating

320
00:11:40,884 --> 00:11:42,665
risk. You never make it go away altogether.

321
00:11:43,045 --> 00:11:45,205
Right. But you're aware of the risks in

322
00:11:45,205 --> 00:11:47,070
ways you might not be otherwise. That's true.

323
00:11:47,070 --> 00:11:49,950
That's true. And and, you know, mentioning that

324
00:11:49,950 --> 00:11:51,710
too, that that that this is a good

325
00:11:51,710 --> 00:11:54,350
time, you know, negotiating something like this to

326
00:11:54,350 --> 00:11:56,769
be very aware, you know, of a rack

327
00:11:56,910 --> 00:12:00,924
risk aware consensual kink. Mhmm. You know, understand

328
00:12:01,065 --> 00:12:03,485
understand the risk of what you are doing.

329
00:12:03,625 --> 00:12:05,465
Right. And it's not again, let me say

330
00:12:05,465 --> 00:12:08,264
this. This is not just physical potential physical

331
00:12:08,264 --> 00:12:11,065
harm. Yes. That is always there, especially if

332
00:12:11,065 --> 00:12:13,085
you have again, I'm using air quotes,

333
00:12:13,929 --> 00:12:14,429
subjectively

334
00:12:14,809 --> 00:12:15,309
extreme,

335
00:12:15,850 --> 00:12:16,909
air quote that,

336
00:12:17,289 --> 00:12:19,389
extreme scenes that you wanna try.

337
00:12:19,690 --> 00:12:21,690
Yeah. There's physical, but, man, there's so much

338
00:12:21,690 --> 00:12:23,289
mental and emotional. Yeah.

339
00:12:23,690 --> 00:12:26,804
And And and everybody's risks will vary. Right.

340
00:12:27,044 --> 00:12:29,684
Exactly. And the the main theme is to

341
00:12:29,684 --> 00:12:31,144
go with the person who's

342
00:12:31,605 --> 00:12:33,065
most risk averse.

343
00:12:33,684 --> 00:12:35,845
Start at that level, whichever one of you

344
00:12:35,845 --> 00:12:38,184
it is. You can build from there because,

345
00:12:38,404 --> 00:12:40,799
you know, sometimes we are risk averse because

346
00:12:40,799 --> 00:12:42,480
of our own anxieties, because of things we've

347
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,559
been through, because we, you know, don't want

348
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:45,700
to nonconsensually

349
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,799
harm somebody. Right? Yeah. And what it can

350
00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:51,539
sometimes take is having the experience

351
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,399
of doing these things on a lower level

352
00:12:54,399 --> 00:12:54,705
with

353
00:12:55,345 --> 00:12:59,125
somewhat less risk to trust both in ourselves

354
00:12:59,264 --> 00:13:01,424
doing the thing and in our partner. You

355
00:13:01,424 --> 00:13:03,904
know, your part your dom who is worried

356
00:13:03,904 --> 00:13:05,585
does not want to hurt you in ways

357
00:13:05,585 --> 00:13:07,045
that, you know, are nonconsensual,

358
00:13:08,785 --> 00:13:10,799
needs to know, one, that you're gonna speak

359
00:13:10,799 --> 00:13:13,679
up if something goes wrong, two, that of

360
00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,079
what their limits are and what they're capable

361
00:13:16,079 --> 00:13:18,319
of and willing to do. And the best

362
00:13:18,319 --> 00:13:19,839
way to do that in what I would

363
00:13:19,839 --> 00:13:20,339
consider,

364
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,879
again, air quote, the safest way, you know,

365
00:13:22,879 --> 00:13:23,539
the most

366
00:13:24,245 --> 00:13:26,965
risk is most mitigated is really slow and

367
00:13:26,965 --> 00:13:27,465
small.

368
00:13:27,845 --> 00:13:31,044
Do small things and build up, and then

369
00:13:31,044 --> 00:13:33,365
one of you will hit your point. At

370
00:13:33,365 --> 00:13:34,965
some point, you're like, nope. This is this

371
00:13:34,965 --> 00:13:36,245
is too far for me. This is where

372
00:13:36,245 --> 00:13:38,750
I stop. And that's what you play within.

373
00:13:39,370 --> 00:13:42,730
And over time, you know, you may expand

374
00:13:42,730 --> 00:13:44,649
on that. You know, your dom may grow

375
00:13:44,649 --> 00:13:47,710
more confident. You both may just, you know,

376
00:13:47,850 --> 00:13:50,570
inherently build a deeper trust that allows you

377
00:13:50,570 --> 00:13:52,514
to try things that you couldn't try in

378
00:13:52,514 --> 00:13:53,095
the beginning.

379
00:13:53,475 --> 00:13:55,794
We have been together for over a decade

380
00:13:55,794 --> 00:13:58,195
now, and we and this isn't even about

381
00:13:58,195 --> 00:14:01,014
CNC. It's just how play can evolve.

382
00:14:02,195 --> 00:14:04,769
Ten years ago, you could not have paid

383
00:14:04,769 --> 00:14:05,990
us to play,

384
00:14:07,490 --> 00:14:08,549
not fully sober.

385
00:14:09,169 --> 00:14:12,129
Now after all these years, we try it

386
00:14:12,129 --> 00:14:14,549
in small ways and in small doses because

387
00:14:14,929 --> 00:14:15,250
we have the confidence in ourselves and we

388
00:14:15,250 --> 00:14:15,750
have

389
00:14:27,504 --> 00:14:29,820
most obvious potential potential danger,

390
00:14:30,919 --> 00:14:32,919
for many people in kink. You you can

391
00:14:32,919 --> 00:14:35,820
understand you're trying to play with scenes that,

392
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:37,960
you know, are made to be triggering in

393
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:38,700
some ways.

394
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,039
But, yeah, for in this in anything, but

395
00:14:42,039 --> 00:14:44,205
especially C and C, you start small,

396
00:14:44,524 --> 00:14:45,665
low, and slow.

397
00:14:46,285 --> 00:14:48,764
Yeah. And you figure it out from there.

398
00:14:48,764 --> 00:14:50,365
But, yeah, I agree with you. The top

399
00:14:50,365 --> 00:14:51,264
one is education.

400
00:14:51,884 --> 00:14:54,285
Figure out how you're defining CNC. What are

401
00:14:54,285 --> 00:14:56,845
your fantasies leading you to? Right? Because it's

402
00:14:56,845 --> 00:14:59,129
very possible. You're thinking, oh, I'd like a

403
00:14:59,129 --> 00:15:00,570
little free use where you just bend me

404
00:15:00,570 --> 00:15:02,169
over the couch whenever you want to. And

405
00:15:02,169 --> 00:15:05,209
your partner is imagining CNC as, oh my

406
00:15:05,209 --> 00:15:06,889
god, full on, I can't say it because

407
00:15:06,889 --> 00:15:10,329
of censorships, but s a, you know, like,

408
00:15:10,329 --> 00:15:11,549
kidnapping fantasies.

409
00:15:12,105 --> 00:15:14,504
And there's a lot of room between those

410
00:15:14,504 --> 00:15:17,384
two ideas of CNC to find, like, a

411
00:15:17,384 --> 00:15:19,644
middle ground. So yeah.

412
00:15:20,264 --> 00:15:22,284
Yeah. That that's what I would say.

413
00:15:22,985 --> 00:15:24,585
Thanks for listening to this week's q and

414
00:15:24,585 --> 00:15:26,024
a episode. If you want us to answer

415
00:15:26,024 --> 00:15:27,899
one of your questions, just use the contact

416
00:15:27,899 --> 00:15:30,299
page on our website at lovingbdsm.net,

417
00:15:30,299 --> 00:15:31,500
or you can find the link in the

418
00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:33,340
show notes. Big thanks as always to our

419
00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:35,580
kinky community over on Patreon. We're able to

420
00:15:35,580 --> 00:15:37,419
do this podcast and keep it going and

421
00:15:37,419 --> 00:15:40,059
help kinksters due to your support. If you'd

422
00:15:40,059 --> 00:15:41,264
like to be part of our community and

423
00:15:41,264 --> 00:15:43,345
get access to extra content and a Discord

424
00:15:43,345 --> 00:15:45,024
server with a group of super cool, super

425
00:15:45,024 --> 00:15:46,944
nice kinksters, you can do that. Just join

426
00:15:46,944 --> 00:15:49,105
us at patreon.com/kaylalords.

427
00:15:49,105 --> 00:15:51,664
That's patreon.com/kaylalords,

428
00:15:51,664 --> 00:15:53,365
or use the link in the show notes.