1 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,519 You're listening to the Loving BDSM podcast. Kayla 2 00:00:13,519 --> 00:00:15,859 Lords here with the one, the only, the, 3 00:00:16,375 --> 00:00:18,454 You haven't been as grumpy as you could 4 00:00:18,454 --> 00:00:20,855 be. No. And I'm kind of appreciative of 5 00:00:20,855 --> 00:00:22,234 that. John Brownstone. 6 00:00:22,695 --> 00:00:23,195 Yeah. 7 00:00:24,054 --> 00:00:25,675 A little a little mellow. 8 00:00:26,214 --> 00:00:27,675 Yeah. Less gruff. 9 00:00:27,975 --> 00:00:30,135 Mhmm. I'm here for it. Okay. Okay. That's 10 00:00:30,135 --> 00:00:32,000 not what we're talking about. Yeah. No. This 11 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,920 week, we're answering a question from a submissive 12 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,659 who has renegotiated their power exchange to exclude 13 00:00:36,719 --> 00:00:37,219 punishment, 14 00:00:37,679 --> 00:00:40,399 but they aren't sure how their dominant will 15 00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:40,880 correct 16 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,600 welcome to the Loving BDSM podcast. If you're 17 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,039 new here, we help kinksters like you have 18 00:00:45,039 --> 00:00:47,375 happy, healthy power exchange relationships. And the podcast 19 00:00:47,375 --> 00:00:49,015 is your favorite podcast app so you never 20 00:00:49,015 --> 00:00:50,854 miss an episode. And if you'd like us 21 00:00:50,854 --> 00:00:52,534 to answer a question that you have in 22 00:00:52,534 --> 00:00:53,975 a future one of these, you can use 23 00:00:53,975 --> 00:00:56,215 our contact page. It's literally labeled ask your 24 00:00:56,215 --> 00:00:59,734 questions. It's available on our website at lovingBDSM.net. 25 00:00:59,734 --> 00:01:02,100 That's lovingBDSM.net 26 00:01:02,100 --> 00:01:03,399 or in the show notes. 27 00:01:03,859 --> 00:01:06,019 Okay. Here we go. My Dom and I 28 00:01:06,019 --> 00:01:07,939 have decided to start our dynamic again from 29 00:01:07,939 --> 00:01:09,159 scratch. We have renegotiated 30 00:01:09,459 --> 00:01:11,560 our power exchange and our limits and boundaries, 31 00:01:11,619 --> 00:01:14,144 but have decided not to include punishments. I 32 00:01:14,144 --> 00:01:16,144 have anxiety where I fear being in trouble 33 00:01:16,144 --> 00:01:18,465 often, so this seemed to be counterproductive as 34 00:01:18,465 --> 00:01:20,465 I would be actually in trouble and would 35 00:01:20,465 --> 00:01:21,525 heighten these feelings. 36 00:01:21,984 --> 00:01:23,825 However, now we have reached a place where 37 00:01:23,825 --> 00:01:25,504 my dom does not feel he can correct 38 00:01:25,504 --> 00:01:27,344 behavior he does not wish to see as 39 00:01:27,344 --> 00:01:28,484 there is no deterrent. 40 00:01:28,900 --> 00:01:31,399 Is punishment a necessary part of power exchange? 41 00:01:31,459 --> 00:01:33,140 And how do you remain dominant and in 42 00:01:33,140 --> 00:01:35,459 control when your submissive is allowed to break 43 00:01:35,459 --> 00:01:36,759 rules with no consequences? 44 00:01:37,299 --> 00:01:39,399 So, Dom, who doles out punishments, 45 00:01:41,539 --> 00:01:43,079 what say you? Well, 46 00:01:43,474 --> 00:01:45,655 got a couple of things. Okay. K. 47 00:01:46,034 --> 00:01:46,534 One, 48 00:01:46,914 --> 00:01:48,614 why is sub breaking all those rules? 49 00:01:48,994 --> 00:01:50,914 Right. Like, why why is either the supposition 50 00:01:50,914 --> 00:01:52,674 that they're going to break rules, or why 51 00:01:52,674 --> 00:01:54,194 are they breaking rules? Yeah. Right. Right. I 52 00:01:54,194 --> 00:01:55,015 mean, you know, 53 00:01:55,634 --> 00:01:57,340 aside from the fact that, you know, they 54 00:01:57,340 --> 00:01:58,620 could be a brat and they're just having 55 00:01:58,620 --> 00:02:00,060 fun with it and that's how they're getting 56 00:02:00,060 --> 00:02:02,219 attention, you know, that that's one thing. But 57 00:02:02,219 --> 00:02:04,159 if they're not and they're breaking rules, 58 00:02:04,939 --> 00:02:07,200 then you'd kind of find out what there's 59 00:02:07,260 --> 00:02:08,080 maybe something 60 00:02:08,540 --> 00:02:09,919 behind that. Mhmm. 61 00:02:10,219 --> 00:02:10,719 Okay. 62 00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:12,479 The other thing 63 00:02:13,564 --> 00:02:15,905 is, we've talked about this in past episodes 64 00:02:16,044 --> 00:02:16,544 before, 65 00:02:17,164 --> 00:02:19,004 punishment is not the end all be all. 66 00:02:19,004 --> 00:02:20,784 Mm-mm. It's not the best way for everybody. 67 00:02:20,844 --> 00:02:21,344 No. 68 00:02:22,604 --> 00:02:25,824 This one here, punishment is only in dire 69 00:02:26,284 --> 00:02:26,784 extreme 70 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,919 badness. Like, I have completely been taken over 71 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:32,680 by aliens, and I'm not even speaking like 72 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,259 myself anymore. So far out of character behavior. 73 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,580 She's totally lost her shit. Right. 74 00:02:39,879 --> 00:02:41,259 That is, accurate. 75 00:02:41,594 --> 00:02:42,555 Okay. But, 76 00:02:43,275 --> 00:02:44,974 learned early on with her 77 00:02:45,674 --> 00:02:46,074 that, 78 00:02:46,634 --> 00:02:48,974 best way to to get her to cooperate 79 00:02:49,114 --> 00:02:50,655 and and moving in that 80 00:02:51,275 --> 00:02:51,775 direction 81 00:02:52,794 --> 00:02:53,694 is is, 82 00:02:54,469 --> 00:02:58,069 rewards. Mhmm. Positive reinforcement. Positive reinforcement. She, you 83 00:02:58,069 --> 00:02:59,930 know, she does love her rewards. 84 00:03:00,229 --> 00:03:02,069 Promise her a Diet Coke and she'll almost 85 00:03:02,069 --> 00:03:04,150 do anything. Almost. I mean, I'll do some 86 00:03:04,150 --> 00:03:05,430 sketchy shit for you guys. I mean, I 87 00:03:05,430 --> 00:03:06,789 don't, you know, it used to be the, 88 00:03:06,949 --> 00:03:08,949 you know, I'd do anything for York, but 89 00:03:08,949 --> 00:03:09,769 no, it's 90 00:03:10,125 --> 00:03:11,805 I do she'd do anything for a Diet 91 00:03:11,805 --> 00:03:14,685 Coke. So, you know. Alright. So, you know, 92 00:03:14,685 --> 00:03:17,085 that and and some coffees and, you know, 93 00:03:17,085 --> 00:03:19,324 whatever else. There there is a whole lot 94 00:03:19,324 --> 00:03:20,145 to go on 95 00:03:20,525 --> 00:03:23,245 to, say, you know, okay. You you you 96 00:03:23,245 --> 00:03:24,305 get this done. 97 00:03:25,039 --> 00:03:26,879 And this is gonna be waiting for you 98 00:03:26,879 --> 00:03:28,479 at the end of the, at the end 99 00:03:28,479 --> 00:03:30,479 of the race. Right. Yep. So 100 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,139 Yeah. I agree completely. 101 00:03:34,959 --> 00:03:36,639 What was I going to say? I lost 102 00:03:36,639 --> 00:03:37,699 my train of thought. 103 00:03:38,465 --> 00:03:39,985 I'm glad I'm not the only one. No. 104 00:03:39,985 --> 00:03:41,504 You're not the only one. No. No. No. 105 00:03:41,504 --> 00:03:43,425 No. No. Happens to to all of us, 106 00:03:43,425 --> 00:03:44,164 quite frankly. 107 00:03:45,504 --> 00:03:47,344 I agree with you completely. I don't have 108 00:03:47,344 --> 00:03:49,584 much to add specifically to that. The thing 109 00:03:49,584 --> 00:03:52,544 that my mind came to, exactly like you 110 00:03:52,544 --> 00:03:54,909 said, is what is happening to cause all 111 00:03:54,909 --> 00:03:57,569 of these punishments if they're happening at all? 112 00:03:57,950 --> 00:03:59,250 If they are happening, 113 00:03:59,629 --> 00:04:02,270 the next thing I want or for if 114 00:04:02,270 --> 00:04:05,150 it's if rules are being broken and that's 115 00:04:05,150 --> 00:04:06,450 what's happening, right, 116 00:04:06,985 --> 00:04:08,425 you have to talk about the rules in 117 00:04:08,425 --> 00:04:11,145 place. Are they the wrong rules? Are they 118 00:04:11,145 --> 00:04:13,564 not feasible for the submissive involved? 119 00:04:14,025 --> 00:04:14,525 Or 120 00:04:15,224 --> 00:04:16,285 is or 121 00:04:16,665 --> 00:04:19,165 is learning a new habit and the stumbling 122 00:04:19,305 --> 00:04:20,444 that can often 123 00:04:20,779 --> 00:04:23,259 occur with that as you literally retrain your 124 00:04:23,259 --> 00:04:25,180 brain and your body to do something different 125 00:04:25,180 --> 00:04:26,560 than you've ever done before 126 00:04:27,020 --> 00:04:28,319 for somebody else, 127 00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:31,580 is it actually just the stops and starts 128 00:04:31,580 --> 00:04:33,995 and mistakes that happen in that? So then 129 00:04:33,995 --> 00:04:34,894 is it actually 130 00:04:35,194 --> 00:04:37,535 bad behavior? Like, how are we 131 00:04:38,235 --> 00:04:39,694 defining bad behavior? 132 00:04:40,714 --> 00:04:41,294 And then 133 00:04:42,074 --> 00:04:42,574 what 134 00:04:43,035 --> 00:04:45,055 are the methods in place to 135 00:04:45,959 --> 00:04:48,680 help a submissive learn how to not do 136 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,100 those things. If we're talking about, 137 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:52,139 you know, 138 00:04:52,519 --> 00:04:54,120 you used to to do this, you used 139 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:55,720 to have this habit, I'm gonna pick a 140 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,240 random one biting your nails, you used to 141 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:58,779 bite your nails, and 142 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,035 now I don't want you to do that. 143 00:05:01,514 --> 00:05:03,595 If what you expect is to set the 144 00:05:03,595 --> 00:05:06,095 rule, you did it, now don't do it, 145 00:05:06,795 --> 00:05:10,154 they're not likely purposely breaking a rule by 146 00:05:10,154 --> 00:05:14,175 forgetting themselves. They are unlearning an ingrained habit, 147 00:05:14,555 --> 00:05:16,959 and they are trying to learn what you 148 00:05:16,959 --> 00:05:18,899 want them to do. And there may be 149 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:20,639 tools out there that help. 150 00:05:21,199 --> 00:05:23,040 Now that I'm on the stop biting your 151 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:24,479 nails thing, there's lots of things that you 152 00:05:24,479 --> 00:05:26,399 can do to deter somebody from biting their 153 00:05:26,399 --> 00:05:26,899 nails, 154 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:29,300 these days anyway. 155 00:05:30,404 --> 00:05:30,904 But 156 00:05:31,285 --> 00:05:33,365 that's the question I have. Is it that 157 00:05:33,365 --> 00:05:35,685 they're purposely breaking a rule? Because that's a 158 00:05:35,685 --> 00:05:37,144 different conversation than 159 00:05:37,524 --> 00:05:39,125 I'm trying to learn a new habit and 160 00:05:39,125 --> 00:05:41,365 I'm struggling with the change or I'm just 161 00:05:41,365 --> 00:05:43,845 making the same mistakes anybody would make. So 162 00:05:43,845 --> 00:05:46,379 that's the other thing is realizing what kind 163 00:05:46,459 --> 00:05:48,699 of behavior you're gonna define as air quote 164 00:05:48,699 --> 00:05:49,199 bad 165 00:05:49,980 --> 00:05:52,160 and and what is just 166 00:05:52,779 --> 00:05:55,180 human nature and and it's a part of 167 00:05:55,180 --> 00:05:58,060 the process of training and relearning and doing 168 00:05:58,060 --> 00:05:58,879 different things 169 00:05:59,339 --> 00:06:01,199 in your power exchange for your dominant. 170 00:06:02,384 --> 00:06:03,284 We do have 171 00:06:03,584 --> 00:06:04,485 a plug here. 172 00:06:05,264 --> 00:06:06,944 We do have a workbook on our Etsy 173 00:06:06,944 --> 00:06:09,845 shop. It's about punishment and 174 00:06:10,544 --> 00:06:13,024 rewards. It's a workbook that talks about both 175 00:06:13,024 --> 00:06:14,625 sides of it with worksheets to help you 176 00:06:14,625 --> 00:06:15,845 kind of figure out 177 00:06:17,189 --> 00:06:18,949 specifics of what kind of punishments if you 178 00:06:18,949 --> 00:06:20,470 decide to do that, what kind of rewards 179 00:06:20,470 --> 00:06:22,629 if you decide to do that. Positive reinforcement 180 00:06:22,629 --> 00:06:24,470 works for a lot of people. As you 181 00:06:24,470 --> 00:06:26,550 mentioned, we have talked about these things before. 182 00:06:26,550 --> 00:06:28,604 I'm gonna link in the places to where 183 00:06:28,604 --> 00:06:30,444 we've talked about these things so people can 184 00:06:30,444 --> 00:06:31,425 do a deeper dive. 185 00:06:32,685 --> 00:06:34,604 The other thing that came to mind, I 186 00:06:34,604 --> 00:06:38,064 totally respect the fact that having anxiety 187 00:06:38,764 --> 00:06:41,269 about being in trouble is then heightened when 188 00:06:42,050 --> 00:06:43,649 you're actually in trouble. And that's, like, one 189 00:06:43,649 --> 00:06:45,970 of many reasons why punishment is not good 190 00:06:45,970 --> 00:06:46,629 for everybody. 191 00:06:47,250 --> 00:06:49,909 The other thing I would say, though, is 192 00:06:50,769 --> 00:06:52,069 it's also about trust. 193 00:06:52,689 --> 00:06:55,675 Mhmm. I am terrified to be air quote 194 00:06:55,675 --> 00:06:57,355 in trouble with somebody that I don't trust 195 00:06:57,355 --> 00:06:59,754 what their reaction's gonna be, which is why 196 00:06:59,754 --> 00:07:01,454 I'm just anxious all the time. 197 00:07:03,115 --> 00:07:04,954 The thing I've learned over all the years 198 00:07:04,954 --> 00:07:05,898 with JB, though, is I know what to 199 00:07:05,898 --> 00:07:05,999 do to keep myself out of trouble for 200 00:07:05,999 --> 00:07:06,574 two things. One, the punishment is something 201 00:07:07,435 --> 00:07:08,509 that for 202 00:07:08,889 --> 00:07:09,389 two 203 00:07:09,770 --> 00:07:12,143 things. One, the punishment is something that is 204 00:07:12,143 --> 00:07:14,330 a deterrent. I don't want it to happen, 205 00:07:14,330 --> 00:07:16,009 so I'm not going to do the thing 206 00:07:16,009 --> 00:07:18,330 that could cause it to happen. But two, 207 00:07:18,330 --> 00:07:19,230 I have learned 208 00:07:19,770 --> 00:07:21,310 where that line is. 209 00:07:21,694 --> 00:07:23,394 So I'm not saying you need 210 00:07:24,654 --> 00:07:26,254 I don't mean to tow the line and, 211 00:07:26,254 --> 00:07:27,694 oh, almost get in trouble. That's not what 212 00:07:27,694 --> 00:07:29,615 I mean. I mean, there are times a 213 00:07:29,615 --> 00:07:31,214 thought will come into my head that I 214 00:07:31,214 --> 00:07:32,115 could say, 215 00:07:32,814 --> 00:07:34,735 I have free will and all, but I 216 00:07:34,735 --> 00:07:36,330 know what kind of reaction I'm going to 217 00:07:36,330 --> 00:07:37,529 get for it. And so then I just 218 00:07:37,529 --> 00:07:39,389 refrain. I'm like, nope. Not worth it. 219 00:07:39,770 --> 00:07:42,569 But also, I'm because I know that. I 220 00:07:42,569 --> 00:07:44,270 know what, in general, 221 00:07:44,649 --> 00:07:47,050 will set us off down that path. Gotcha. 222 00:07:47,050 --> 00:07:49,394 It's the trust I have that it's not 223 00:07:49,394 --> 00:07:51,334 gonna creep up in any other part 224 00:07:51,714 --> 00:07:54,675 of, you know, discussion or even a mild 225 00:07:54,675 --> 00:07:55,175 disagreement 226 00:07:56,274 --> 00:07:58,274 is comes from trust. It comes from how 227 00:07:58,274 --> 00:08:00,519 you have behaved consistently all this time, and 228 00:08:00,519 --> 00:08:01,899 it comes from my, 229 00:08:02,519 --> 00:08:05,240 ability to finally learn how to trust that 230 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,099 deeply so you're my safe person. 231 00:08:07,399 --> 00:08:09,399 So if you're a person who naturally has 232 00:08:09,399 --> 00:08:11,579 just some anxiety over being in trouble, 233 00:08:12,199 --> 00:08:14,300 that may never go away. That's that's 234 00:08:15,194 --> 00:08:18,314 possible. But it's also possible that you haven't 235 00:08:18,314 --> 00:08:19,834 had enough time in a power exchange to 236 00:08:19,834 --> 00:08:21,995 fully trust your partner on how they're gonna 237 00:08:21,995 --> 00:08:24,714 react in different situations, and then it's incumbent 238 00:08:24,714 --> 00:08:26,014 on the dominant partner 239 00:08:26,475 --> 00:08:27,694 to react calmly. 240 00:08:28,470 --> 00:08:29,050 You know, 241 00:08:29,669 --> 00:08:31,990 with a bit of reserve in the, you 242 00:08:31,990 --> 00:08:33,049 know, not 243 00:08:33,509 --> 00:08:36,250 not in a uncaring way, but that dispassionate, 244 00:08:37,350 --> 00:08:38,570 like, that thing happened. 245 00:08:39,029 --> 00:08:40,870 Here's what we do about it. Not the 246 00:08:40,870 --> 00:08:43,184 big blow up or the guilt or the 247 00:08:43,184 --> 00:08:44,725 shame or the recriminations 248 00:08:45,424 --> 00:08:45,924 that 249 00:08:46,545 --> 00:08:48,465 often many of us anxious people who are 250 00:08:48,465 --> 00:08:50,465 terrified of being in trouble are waiting for. 251 00:08:50,465 --> 00:08:50,965 Right? 252 00:08:52,065 --> 00:08:53,665 That doesn't mean that you'll change around one 253 00:08:53,665 --> 00:08:54,884 day and wanna do punishments, 254 00:08:55,220 --> 00:08:57,240 but I I think it's worth an exploration 255 00:08:57,460 --> 00:08:59,860 and an understanding that sometimes that just comes 256 00:08:59,860 --> 00:09:01,879 from not enough time and not enough trust 257 00:09:01,940 --> 00:09:03,160 in the power exchange. 258 00:09:03,779 --> 00:09:05,540 But also I just keep going back to 259 00:09:05,540 --> 00:09:07,139 what kind of rules are being set where 260 00:09:07,139 --> 00:09:09,304 they're just it's either assumed they're gonna be 261 00:09:09,304 --> 00:09:12,045 broken or they are being broken. Mhmm. Because 262 00:09:12,264 --> 00:09:14,585 unless it's a brat kind of thing where 263 00:09:14,585 --> 00:09:16,504 the fun is in the push and pull 264 00:09:16,585 --> 00:09:20,024 Right. Which doesn't sound like this person would 265 00:09:20,105 --> 00:09:21,865 might be gone with, at least not not 266 00:09:21,865 --> 00:09:23,325 currently in their current state, 267 00:09:23,940 --> 00:09:26,340 then then then the question is, is this 268 00:09:26,340 --> 00:09:29,379 even the right rule? If you cannot maintain 269 00:09:29,379 --> 00:09:29,879 it, 270 00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:32,420 is it too much too soon? Is it 271 00:09:32,420 --> 00:09:34,179 just not right for you? Is it a 272 00:09:34,179 --> 00:09:36,865 rule that you set together because you think 273 00:09:36,865 --> 00:09:38,865 that's what's supposed to happen in power exchange? 274 00:09:38,865 --> 00:09:40,465 There is no that's what's supposed to happen 275 00:09:40,465 --> 00:09:42,785 in power exchange other than communication and consent 276 00:09:42,785 --> 00:09:43,605 and some, 277 00:09:43,985 --> 00:09:46,705 let's use the words in the definition, some 278 00:09:46,705 --> 00:09:49,799 level of exchange of power. Right? But beyond 279 00:09:49,799 --> 00:09:52,600 that, there's no standard rules, there's no standard 280 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,220 behavior, none of that. 281 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:55,100 So 282 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,080 if what we're worried about is a thing 283 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,480 that hasn't happened yet, then everybody take a 284 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,620 breath, go through the rules you have, determine 285 00:10:02,759 --> 00:10:04,794 which ones are habit changes and which ones 286 00:10:04,794 --> 00:10:07,595 are it needs it needs to a switch 287 00:10:07,595 --> 00:10:08,654 to flip. Right? 288 00:10:09,355 --> 00:10:10,815 But if we're talking about 289 00:10:11,274 --> 00:10:13,754 something that hasn't happened yet and you're worried 290 00:10:13,754 --> 00:10:15,214 about it, right, 291 00:10:15,595 --> 00:10:18,450 or we're talking like, there's I've lost my 292 00:10:18,450 --> 00:10:20,230 whole train of thought. I'm so sorry, y'all. 293 00:10:21,809 --> 00:10:22,690 There is the 294 00:10:23,649 --> 00:10:25,649 if it's happening right now, you have to 295 00:10:25,649 --> 00:10:27,250 take a step back and look at why 296 00:10:27,250 --> 00:10:29,509 it's happening. Right? Wrong rules, 297 00:10:30,075 --> 00:10:33,455 not enough time to change, not enough understanding 298 00:10:33,675 --> 00:10:34,175 of, 299 00:10:35,195 --> 00:10:37,355 habit changing, too big of a rule, maybe 300 00:10:37,355 --> 00:10:38,554 you need to back it up to baby 301 00:10:38,554 --> 00:10:39,054 steps. 302 00:10:39,355 --> 00:10:42,495 If it's not happening yet and you assume 303 00:10:42,554 --> 00:10:43,855 it's going to, 304 00:10:44,740 --> 00:10:47,139 then I have questions for you. Why do 305 00:10:47,139 --> 00:10:49,779 you assume it's going to? Like, is there 306 00:10:49,779 --> 00:10:52,660 past behavior within your relationship that makes that 307 00:10:52,660 --> 00:10:53,559 a possibility? 308 00:10:54,100 --> 00:10:56,100 Is it just a fear that one or 309 00:10:56,100 --> 00:10:58,575 both of you have that's got no basis 310 00:10:58,575 --> 00:11:00,654 in truth? If there is a basis in 311 00:11:00,654 --> 00:11:02,894 truth, that's another conversation that has to happen. 312 00:11:02,894 --> 00:11:05,054 Right? And that and what I would say 313 00:11:05,054 --> 00:11:05,554 then 314 00:11:06,014 --> 00:11:08,654 is if we're dealing with fears of something 315 00:11:08,654 --> 00:11:11,039 that could happen but has not happened yet, 316 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,120 then everything needs to back up a little 317 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:14,079 bit and you need to go a little 318 00:11:14,079 --> 00:11:15,539 bit slower with these rules. 319 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,839 Because one or both of you does not 320 00:11:17,839 --> 00:11:19,059 have a comfort level 321 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:19,940 with 322 00:11:20,799 --> 00:11:23,120 the making of and following of rules and 323 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,365 then believing that they will be followed. Whatever 324 00:11:25,365 --> 00:11:27,225 that's about, that's a conversation. 325 00:11:27,605 --> 00:11:29,684 And the easiest way to, like, work on 326 00:11:29,684 --> 00:11:32,884 it without overwhelming everybody is to take whatever 327 00:11:32,884 --> 00:11:34,404 the the big rule is and step it 328 00:11:34,404 --> 00:11:35,684 back a little bit and make it a 329 00:11:35,684 --> 00:11:37,764 smaller rule and do one rule at a 330 00:11:37,764 --> 00:11:39,919 time until that habit is ingrained in both 331 00:11:39,919 --> 00:11:41,200 of you, till you know how you're gonna 332 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,279 behave with each other, you know, until you 333 00:11:43,279 --> 00:11:45,039 build up that kind of trust. Like, you 334 00:11:45,039 --> 00:11:46,720 can trust each other enough to do a 335 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,039 power exchange or to do something, you know, 336 00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:50,960 new and different in your relationship and not 337 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,879 yet have the comfort level of, oh, well, 338 00:11:52,879 --> 00:11:54,320 they're gonna do everything they said they were 339 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,925 gonna do. Dom Warsaw. Right? Because you don't 340 00:11:56,925 --> 00:11:59,085 necessarily know that until you've seen that in 341 00:11:59,085 --> 00:11:59,585 action. 342 00:11:59,965 --> 00:12:02,205 Right? So that's really the thing I would 343 00:12:02,205 --> 00:12:04,285 say is where is this fear of the 344 00:12:04,285 --> 00:12:06,365 rules just aren't gonna be broken, or the 345 00:12:06,365 --> 00:12:07,884 rules just are gonna be broken and the 346 00:12:07,884 --> 00:12:10,379 Dom won't be able to to deter them. 347 00:12:11,019 --> 00:12:13,440 Yeah. That that's its own conversation. 348 00:12:14,460 --> 00:12:16,080 But, yeah, with positive reinforcement, 349 00:12:16,460 --> 00:12:19,179 instead of deterring the behavior you don't wanna 350 00:12:19,179 --> 00:12:22,379 see, you reward the behavior you do want 351 00:12:22,379 --> 00:12:23,200 to see. Right. 352 00:12:23,740 --> 00:12:25,514 And for many people that works a whole 353 00:12:25,514 --> 00:12:27,355 hell of a lot better Than punishment. Than 354 00:12:27,355 --> 00:12:27,855 punishment. 355 00:12:29,115 --> 00:12:30,334 If every time 356 00:12:31,355 --> 00:12:33,514 I you wanted to correct my behavior, it 357 00:12:33,514 --> 00:12:34,574 was always punishment, 358 00:12:35,754 --> 00:12:37,754 that would never have that would never work 359 00:12:37,754 --> 00:12:39,674 long term. You you just shut down. Yeah. 360 00:12:39,674 --> 00:12:40,990 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'd have been like, 361 00:12:40,990 --> 00:12:42,429 I don't even wanna do this anymore because 362 00:12:42,429 --> 00:12:43,629 I think I would be similar to this 363 00:12:43,629 --> 00:12:45,970 person. I'd be on edge of this. Everything 364 00:12:46,750 --> 00:12:48,269 going to get me in trouble is is 365 00:12:48,269 --> 00:12:50,269 a little slip up, is a mistake. Or 366 00:12:50,269 --> 00:12:53,709 they would start become ineffective after a while. 367 00:12:53,709 --> 00:12:54,450 Right? Because 368 00:12:54,945 --> 00:12:56,384 I'd be so used to it. It's like, 369 00:12:56,384 --> 00:12:56,884 whatever. 370 00:12:57,585 --> 00:13:00,865 Punishment for me is, like, so too and 371 00:13:00,865 --> 00:13:02,485 far between. There comes a point. A purpose. 372 00:13:02,544 --> 00:13:04,225 And and I think with your your little 373 00:13:04,225 --> 00:13:06,565 bit of background, you probably can understand it. 374 00:13:06,865 --> 00:13:08,804 If if somebody is is 375 00:13:09,329 --> 00:13:11,909 punished for being bad, not doing something right, 376 00:13:11,970 --> 00:13:13,829 there there comes a point where they're like, 377 00:13:14,370 --> 00:13:16,370 okay, I'm being punished for this. I may 378 00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:18,049 as well be this. Right. Or or they 379 00:13:18,049 --> 00:13:21,684 internalize I am bad. Yeah. And no. Right. 380 00:13:21,825 --> 00:13:23,664 So the other thing I would suggest for 381 00:13:23,664 --> 00:13:25,345 both of you is to learn we've done 382 00:13:25,345 --> 00:13:27,345 a a little bit of content about this, 383 00:13:27,345 --> 00:13:28,625 but I know it's out there in other 384 00:13:28,625 --> 00:13:31,044 places, is to learn more about submissive training. 385 00:13:31,264 --> 00:13:33,904 Mhmm. Because that's where this comes from. In 386 00:13:33,904 --> 00:13:35,584 order for there to be punishment that is 387 00:13:35,584 --> 00:13:36,325 not punishment, 388 00:13:37,250 --> 00:13:39,169 effectively what you're trying to do is change 389 00:13:39,169 --> 00:13:41,970 behaviors, change habits, change what change ways of 390 00:13:41,970 --> 00:13:43,889 thinking, have a submissive do a thing that 391 00:13:43,889 --> 00:13:45,730 the or not do a thing the dominant 392 00:13:45,730 --> 00:13:46,259 wants them to do. That is training. You 393 00:13:46,259 --> 00:13:46,340 are training your submissive to do or not 394 00:13:46,340 --> 00:13:46,950 do something. And there are 395 00:13:48,785 --> 00:13:51,345 submissive to do or not do something. And 396 00:13:51,345 --> 00:13:53,504 there are different tools in the arsenal for 397 00:13:53,504 --> 00:13:55,504 how you get that done. Punishment is only 398 00:13:55,504 --> 00:13:58,325 one of them. It is not a standard 399 00:13:58,384 --> 00:14:01,024 thing in all power exchange. There is no 400 00:14:01,024 --> 00:14:02,399 standard thing. There's 401 00:14:02,779 --> 00:14:05,740 no everybody does that, everybody should do that, 402 00:14:05,740 --> 00:14:07,659 this is how we get none of none 403 00:14:07,659 --> 00:14:08,320 of that. 404 00:14:08,940 --> 00:14:11,200 So no punishment is not necessary, 405 00:14:11,899 --> 00:14:13,659 and yes, you can find your own way 406 00:14:13,659 --> 00:14:16,399 without it, or you can even modify it 407 00:14:16,784 --> 00:14:18,784 so that there might be things that you 408 00:14:18,784 --> 00:14:21,044 as a submissive are comfortable having 409 00:14:21,584 --> 00:14:24,325 happen if you slip up that are not 410 00:14:24,704 --> 00:14:26,784 punishment, air quote that word, in whatever way 411 00:14:26,784 --> 00:14:28,325 you're envisioning it now. 412 00:14:29,179 --> 00:14:31,500 So that would be the thing that I 413 00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:33,899 would say. Like I said before, links in 414 00:14:33,899 --> 00:14:36,059 the places, where we've talked about punishment and 415 00:14:36,059 --> 00:14:37,980 rewards, positive reinforcement, stuff like that in the 416 00:14:37,980 --> 00:14:39,740 past, and I'll link to our workbook for 417 00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:40,799 anybody who, 418 00:14:41,259 --> 00:14:42,860 is interested in that. It's a way to 419 00:14:42,860 --> 00:14:43,600 help you 420 00:14:44,004 --> 00:14:46,164 organize what you are gonna do, what you're 421 00:14:46,164 --> 00:14:48,245 not gonna do, what behaviors you're trying to 422 00:14:48,245 --> 00:14:50,745 change, what things you want to have happen 423 00:14:51,125 --> 00:14:53,125 in this part of your power exchange for 424 00:14:53,125 --> 00:14:54,904 anybody who might find that valuable. 425 00:14:56,404 --> 00:14:58,670 But yeah. So one thing I'd like to 426 00:14:58,670 --> 00:15:00,430 throw in there real quick Okay. In all 427 00:15:00,430 --> 00:15:00,930 this, 428 00:15:01,550 --> 00:15:02,690 this is not a punishment, 429 00:15:03,950 --> 00:15:05,790 but it is also something that should be 430 00:15:05,790 --> 00:15:06,850 used judiciously. 431 00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:09,889 You should not just use it randomly. 432 00:15:10,695 --> 00:15:12,295 You know, it should be used only in 433 00:15:12,295 --> 00:15:13,434 the most dire 434 00:15:13,975 --> 00:15:14,634 of circumstances. 435 00:15:15,894 --> 00:15:16,715 Three words. 436 00:15:17,654 --> 00:15:19,195 Oh, I know what's coming. 437 00:15:20,054 --> 00:15:23,335 You disappointed me. I hate it. Do you 438 00:15:23,335 --> 00:15:25,415 know those words? That's why I'm glad you 439 00:15:25,415 --> 00:15:26,779 say you have to use those judiciously. 440 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:27,980 Those words 441 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,779 are, by some mental health professionals, 442 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,879 are considered so damaging to a child when 443 00:15:33,879 --> 00:15:35,320 a parent does it that they're like, please 444 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:36,840 don't do that. Like, that will stick with 445 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,840 that child. Alright. Wow. So and I didn't 446 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,600 know that either. I mean, as somebody who 447 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,715 grew up hearing it from time to time. 448 00:15:43,414 --> 00:15:44,154 So yes, 449 00:15:44,455 --> 00:15:44,955 judiciously. 450 00:15:45,735 --> 00:15:49,514 As hopefully two functioning adults who are mentally 451 00:15:49,654 --> 00:15:52,455 well and healthy enough to understand it differently 452 00:15:52,455 --> 00:15:55,620 than a child will, Right? Who's still developing 453 00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:57,879 and these are formative years and that connection 454 00:15:57,940 --> 00:16:00,340 parent to child is different than, you know, 455 00:16:00,340 --> 00:16:02,419 dom to sub. You I think you can 456 00:16:02,419 --> 00:16:04,419 get away with using it, but you have 457 00:16:04,419 --> 00:16:06,340 to you gotta be careful. That's a powerful 458 00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:08,925 It is. It is. Powerful weapon. It is. 459 00:16:08,925 --> 00:16:10,785 And now I'm trying to think of alternatives. 460 00:16:11,485 --> 00:16:13,805 I think it's still I I think it's 461 00:16:13,805 --> 00:16:14,305 effective 462 00:16:15,325 --> 00:16:17,165 when so what parents tend to do is 463 00:16:17,165 --> 00:16:17,825 they say, 464 00:16:18,285 --> 00:16:20,865 I'm not angry. I'm just disappointed. Right? Or, 465 00:16:21,659 --> 00:16:23,419 some version of that. Right. And depending on 466 00:16:23,419 --> 00:16:25,500 the nature of the relationship between parent and 467 00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:27,200 child, that can be devastating. 468 00:16:27,899 --> 00:16:28,559 I think 469 00:16:28,940 --> 00:16:31,179 a big diff a big problem though is 470 00:16:31,179 --> 00:16:33,315 there's never any discussion or context given for 471 00:16:33,315 --> 00:16:34,875 a child. All they hear is that they 472 00:16:34,875 --> 00:16:37,674 are a disappointment. And again, not all children, 473 00:16:37,674 --> 00:16:40,475 not all parents, not every time, but enough. 474 00:16:40,475 --> 00:16:42,174 Right? In an adult 475 00:16:43,274 --> 00:16:46,475 negotiated relationship where communication needs to be at 476 00:16:46,475 --> 00:16:47,134 the forefront 477 00:16:47,754 --> 00:16:48,254 Mhmm. 478 00:16:49,470 --> 00:16:51,710 If a dom says that and they know 479 00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:53,570 it has an impact on their submissive, 480 00:16:54,669 --> 00:16:56,669 one, that needs to be acknowledged. Two, that's 481 00:16:56,669 --> 00:16:58,350 a responsibility the dom needs to carry with 482 00:16:58,350 --> 00:16:59,870 them that this is a powerful tool, and 483 00:16:59,870 --> 00:17:01,389 you need to be careful with it. But 484 00:17:01,389 --> 00:17:01,889 three, 485 00:17:02,350 --> 00:17:03,970 there needs to be a conversation 486 00:17:04,804 --> 00:17:06,345 between the two of you after 487 00:17:07,045 --> 00:17:08,964 things settle and and you can both be 488 00:17:08,964 --> 00:17:11,845 calm so that Adam can explain what they 489 00:17:11,845 --> 00:17:14,085 mean, can give context to the submissive, can 490 00:17:14,085 --> 00:17:15,684 say how they felt, you can work through 491 00:17:15,684 --> 00:17:17,304 it, and you may find 492 00:17:17,799 --> 00:17:19,640 that that is not an effective statement for 493 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:20,920 you because it might bring up some other 494 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,519 stuff. JB can say it to me and 495 00:17:22,519 --> 00:17:23,720 he can even just threaten to say it 496 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,160 to me and I'm like, well, I will 497 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:26,460 straighten up right now. 498 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:27,740 But I have 499 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:29,960 enough context. And I and I think I 500 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:31,500 can count on my fingers 501 00:17:32,025 --> 00:17:33,965 the number of times I've used that 502 00:17:34,424 --> 00:17:36,664 over the course of our entire relationship Right. 503 00:17:36,744 --> 00:17:39,625 To this point. One, because I'm trying not 504 00:17:39,625 --> 00:17:42,505 to, you know, disappoint you. And two, you 505 00:17:42,505 --> 00:17:44,105 don't just throw that out there. You're not 506 00:17:44,105 --> 00:17:45,599 trying to guilt me. You're not trying to 507 00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:47,299 shame me into anything. 508 00:17:47,759 --> 00:17:50,099 So, yes, I think that can be effective 509 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,299 for some people. 510 00:17:51,679 --> 00:17:53,519 I think if you hear those words or 511 00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:56,179 hear this discussion and have this immediate nope 512 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,000 kind of feeling, then you know yourself well 513 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,695 enough that That's right. That's not that's not 514 00:17:59,695 --> 00:18:01,075 one that will work on you. 515 00:18:01,695 --> 00:18:03,375 But that is also the difference. But, you 516 00:18:03,375 --> 00:18:03,875 know, 517 00:18:04,174 --> 00:18:05,634 what should happen between, 518 00:18:05,934 --> 00:18:08,494 you know, parent child is that might get 519 00:18:08,494 --> 00:18:10,355 said, but then there's a conversation. 520 00:18:10,815 --> 00:18:13,650 Right. And that very rarely happens. Whereas with 521 00:18:13,730 --> 00:18:15,990 you or two grown ass adults in a 522 00:18:16,130 --> 00:18:16,630 negotiated 523 00:18:17,089 --> 00:18:19,570 power exchange, if you could talk about getting 524 00:18:19,570 --> 00:18:21,410 freaky in the sheets, you should be able 525 00:18:21,410 --> 00:18:22,230 to talk about 526 00:18:22,529 --> 00:18:25,009 what disappointment means and what that those feelings 527 00:18:25,009 --> 00:18:27,109 brought up in both of you. Okay? Absolutely. 528 00:18:27,570 --> 00:18:28,974 So I think I 529 00:18:29,355 --> 00:18:31,515 I, you know, I add that just as 530 00:18:31,515 --> 00:18:33,914 a caveat because, like, everything, not everything will 531 00:18:33,914 --> 00:18:35,994 work for everybody and there are reasons for 532 00:18:35,994 --> 00:18:36,734 that. Right? 533 00:18:37,195 --> 00:18:39,674 But yes, you don't I mean, truly, you 534 00:18:39,674 --> 00:18:40,894 don't have to, like, 535 00:18:41,674 --> 00:18:42,414 have a, 536 00:18:42,910 --> 00:18:43,650 a submissive 537 00:18:44,349 --> 00:18:45,250 lose a privilege, 538 00:18:45,630 --> 00:18:48,430 stand in the corner, do something abhorrent as 539 00:18:48,430 --> 00:18:48,930 punishment 540 00:18:49,309 --> 00:18:51,789 if if it is effective enough to them 541 00:18:51,789 --> 00:18:53,890 to know that you are unhappy with them. 542 00:18:53,950 --> 00:18:55,630 Like that'll stop me in my tracks every 543 00:18:55,630 --> 00:18:58,154 time. The only time you being unhappy with 544 00:18:58,154 --> 00:18:59,994 me doesn't make me, like, rethink my whole 545 00:18:59,994 --> 00:19:02,875 life is if I righteously think I am 546 00:19:02,875 --> 00:19:04,894 correct and we are in a a disagreement. 547 00:19:05,035 --> 00:19:07,914 But if I if I know that I 548 00:19:07,914 --> 00:19:10,154 could have done better, there was there was 549 00:19:10,154 --> 00:19:12,109 some I'm in the wrong here. 550 00:19:12,490 --> 00:19:14,490 Yeah. No. Those are very effective words and 551 00:19:14,490 --> 00:19:15,630 no punishment needed. 552 00:19:16,090 --> 00:19:18,170 So, yeah, there's so many ways so many 553 00:19:18,170 --> 00:19:19,789 ways to navigate this. Yes. 554 00:19:20,410 --> 00:19:20,910 Anytime 555 00:19:21,210 --> 00:19:24,044 you're tempted to go, is this required in 556 00:19:24,044 --> 00:19:27,184 power exchange? Almost always the answer is no. 557 00:19:27,244 --> 00:19:29,164 Yeah. The only two requirements are consent and 558 00:19:29,164 --> 00:19:30,865 communication, effective communication. 559 00:19:31,644 --> 00:19:34,285 After that, it's whatever you make of it. 560 00:19:34,285 --> 00:19:35,279 Yeah. Mhmm. 561 00:19:35,819 --> 00:19:38,880 So I think that is that. Mhmm. Mhmm. 562 00:19:39,660 --> 00:19:41,339 Thanks for listening to this week's q and 563 00:19:41,339 --> 00:19:42,779 a episode. If you want us to answer 564 00:19:42,779 --> 00:19:44,619 one of your questions, just use the contact 565 00:19:44,619 --> 00:19:46,940 page on our website at lovingBDSM.net, 566 00:19:46,940 --> 00:19:48,220 or you can find the link in the 567 00:19:48,220 --> 00:19:50,015 show notes. Big thanks as always to our 568 00:19:50,015 --> 00:19:52,255 kinky community over on Patreon. We're able to 569 00:19:52,255 --> 00:19:54,095 do this podcast and keep it going and 570 00:19:54,095 --> 00:19:56,734 help kinksters due to your support. If you'd 571 00:19:56,734 --> 00:19:58,095 like to be part of our community and 572 00:19:58,095 --> 00:20:00,015 get access to extra content and a Discord 573 00:20:00,015 --> 00:20:01,799 server with a group of super cool, super 574 00:20:01,799 --> 00:20:03,640 nice kinksters, you can do that. Just join 575 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,820 us at patreon.com/kaylalords. 576 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,360 That's patreon.com/kaylalords, 577 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:10,059 or use the link in the show notes.