- You are listening to the Loving BDSM podcast.
Okay. The Lord's here with the one, the only, the
you make the cutest noise when you sleep.
John Brownstone. Thank
- You. I think
- .
And also it was like right out of one
of my s Muddy Romance novels.
You made little noises. I reached out and touched you.
You immediately settled. It was adorable .
- Well, low game. - It was right out
of fiction, but it was reality.
- There's art imitate life or life imitate art.
You know what I mean? Yeah. .
- Is that what we're here to talk about? No, no, not at all.
. Actually, in a way, we're sort
of talking about the opposite end of,
of whatever we are, and yeah.
No, it's probably not good.
Uh, this week we're answering a question from someone
who feels like their relationship is in their words,
disintegrating serious stuff now.
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Okay, let's get into it. It's real simple.
Few words, uh, but it packs upon here. Hmm.
My BDSM relationship is disintegrating.
I don't know what to do other than let 'em go
and move on with my life.
Any advice? So first I'm gonna say,
normally this is really vague and broad.
It it is. And it's like, huh,
to give actual workable advice,
we would need to know so much more.
- Right? - But when I saw this question come through,
I was like, oh, I have thoughts like,
not necessarily specific to this person's exact situation,
because we just don't have the details, right?
But I think when things are going poorly
in any relationship, somebody at some point
between you has this thought.
And I think anything we might be able to talk about
is more about how to decide for yourself what mm-Hmm.
needs to happen next. So what, what do you
- Think?
Well, I mean, you know, it, it's, it's just like in,
in any relationship, um, you know, unfortunately,
you can't make somebody, you know, care for you or,
or love you or want to be with you,
or, you know, you, the old ad you can lead a horse to water,
can't make 'em drink, right?
And it, it's the same thing with a, with a Ds relationship.
You know, you, you can't force somebody
to do something you don't want.
Now, like you said, there's ,
there's a lot missing from this, you know, not sure.
Not knowing any, any particulars.
Do you know when it's done?
I, I think most everybody at any point at the end
of a relationship, deep down,
I think you kind of know Mm-Hmm.
that it's, that it's over.
And it's that, um, you know, it, it's,
it's like grieving you.
You have to come to a point of acceptance. I think so, yeah.
Mm-Hmm. , you know, and,
and then you can kind of start moving on.
- Uh, yeah, I, I agree. I agree completely.
I think sometimes that that acceptance, um,
feels a little bit like relief.
Mm-Hmm. , you know, I, not in A-B-D-S-M way,
but my first marriage, you know, it hurt
to think about it being over.
But when I imagined not being married anymore,
and that was a marriage, so that mm-hmm.
, you know, slightly different,
but not necessarily, um, I felt a sense of relief.
I still felt heartbreak.
I still felt like I didn't want it to be true. Mm-Hmm.
. But when I could think
of us not being together anymore,
and more in the not dealing with the issues we were dealing
with, what I felt was relief, it still took me a minute
to get to that point where I could go,
okay, this relationship is over.
Um, but I think everybody feels
something a little different.
I do think if what you're feeling is relief, I think
that is your gut, your brain, your intuition.
Pick Mm-Hmm. pick which part of your body
you'd like, uh, is telling you something.
The thing, the first thing that came
to my mind when I saw this though, is what do you mean
by disintegrating?
Because sometimes it's two completely incompatible people
unable to find a common middle ground
that is good for mm-Hmm.
, both or all of you, right?
But sometimes it's life has gotten hard be,
you know, outside of your relationship, outside
of anything you can control.
And so every part of your life is hard
and things that you thought would be true about your
relationship in the beginning, just there's no space
for it now forever.
And that depends.
Um, sometimes it's, you thought you were on
the same page, in this case, we'll say BDSM, you know,
you thought your power exchange was going in a similar
direction, and now it doesn't seem that way.
Um, so, you know, when you're thinking to yourself,
this is falling apart around my ears,
what exactly is falling apart?
And, and this is the most common thing we ever say,
and it's not indicated here that, um,
have you talked to one another?
Like, is this a situation where both of you, all of you,
I don't wanna make any assumptions about a relationship
makeup, but everybody involved.
Are you sitting down and talking to one another
about what is going on?
Now, sometimes your answer is clearer than you want it
to be because Mm-Hmm.
, you can't get the other person
to sit down and talk to you.
Well, there's not much of a relationship to salvage.
Uh, you know, a bare minimum.
If the other involved is like, nah,
there's nothing wrong and I wanna talk about it.
Or are you talking about it? And nothing is changing.
That's, that is often a clear sign.
Is this a situation which is unfortunately too common,
where you're putting in all of the effort
and you're getting bare minimum back from your partner.
You know, they're not putting in any effort.
They're only responding when you reach out.
They're half-assing that to begin with. Mm-Hmm.
, you know, you've ha you've,
you're having conversation
after conversation after conversation.
There are too many of us,
and I could probably psychoanalyze why this is,
but that's neither here nor there.
But there are too many of us who go,
maybe if I just try one more conversation,
maybe I haven't done enough.
Maybe if I find the right combination
of words at the exact right time, I can get them
to see the problem and to do something about it.
And if you are constantly putting in effort
and getting either nothing in return
or very minimal in return,
or it's going back to the way that it was, which is not
what you want and is making you unhappy, you are being given
very clear information about
where this relationship is headed.
Yeah. I think it goes back
to what you said at the top though.
You have to get to a point of acceptance,
not acceptance of that person.
Not acceptance of the situation.
Acceptance that you can't fix this by yourself,
and you should not be trying to fix this by yourself.
You know, this is a partnership.
You are supposed to be working together. Mm-Hmm.
, you deserve somebody who wants to be in this
as much as you want to be in this.
Now, that does not mean you will come into this, uh,
with the same level, skill level.
You know, you might be able to clearly express yourself
and say, here's what I want, and let's work towards a goal.
And your partner might not be.
Now, does that mean you have to stay
with a partner that you are unhappy with?
Of course not. No.
I think though, that sometimes we can give grace
to a person who's like, you're like, oh, you,
you don't have any clue how to do this.
Maybe you'll let me help you figure out how to do this.
Maybe you'll let me like send you some links. Go, go read.
Go listen, go learn.
Um, it's in those cases, it's often
the effort that is put in.
Are they trying as hard as you are?
Even if they're coming at it from a different angle,
maybe it's worth it.
Maybe it's worth trying some more, but not always.
And it doesn't have to be.
The thing is, is there's a scarcity mindset in kink.
There's a scarcity mindset in the world,
but there's a scarcity mindset in kink
that if I leave this one partner who happens
to compliment my kinks in some way,
I will never find another person who
I can have a good time with.
I can have this kind of relationship where I, I can get,
you know, my kinks rocked the way I like.
And I'm not saying that it's not difficult sometimes
to find a compatible partner,
but when we're in that mindset of this is all I'll ever get,
I better hold onto it.
We will stay where we don't need to be for much too long.
Mm-Hmm. . And so then when we're miserable,
so yeah, you got the partner
and you can say, Hey, this is the dom to my sub, the sub
to my dom, the switch to my, like whatever.
Right? You can say you have them,
but you spend all of your time
and energy trying to put together a relationship that can't,
can't hold its form because the other person Yeah.
Is not participating in the same way
and doesn't have the same desires, drive,
wants, needs that you do.
Sometimes it's an incompatibility.
And too many will stay in a bad relationship
'cause they think they'll never get this anywhere else.
Right. And I, you know, look, I get
the luxury and the privilege
of coming at it from a very healthy, a very happy, a very
satisfied 90% of the time,
I think we're satisfied with everything, right?
Yeah. Relationship.
So I, I have not had to be where a lot
of people are in a long, long, long time.
Over 10 years. Okay. I get it.
So I'm not in the trenches with you,
but here's the thing that I have figured out
after enough failed relationships, I would rather be alone
than be miserable
and work really hard
for somebody who's not working really hard for me. There,
- There's a lot of truth to that. Mm-Hmm.
- . And that's any flavor of relationship.
Mm-Hmm. . I want to be with somebody that
puts in the effort and wants to be there with me.
I don't need a partner. I want a partner.
Now, there comes a point, especially in power exchange,
where you absolutely will feel like you need that person.
Because I'm not as much
of a submissive if I don't have my daddy dom.
Right? Like I am submissive,
but I'm not expressing it very much if he's not there.
Yes. Is absolutely true.
But I don't have to twist myself into knots to try
to keep a relationship going.
Nor am I doing all of the work on my own.
We are in this together. Yeah.
And when one of us falters,
the other one picks up the slack, drags us along
until we are back in sort of a mm-Hmm.
- back in the groove again. Right.
- And I think too many people will settle
for much less than they deserve.
So they're not alone so
that they can say they're in a kink relationship.
Mm-Hmm. . Because at one point it was good.
Oh, another lesson I had to learn in relationships.
Um, sometimes some of us, I am,
I have been this way in the past, we fall in love
with potential, not actual.
I spent a 12 year relationship going,
but I know he's capable
because he was capable at this point.
And he did this thing that I thought was a amazing
and wonderful, and he dug in and he did what he had to do.
And so I spent the next, however many years
after that moment, chasing that potential.
I knew what he was capable of.
I just kept waiting for him to do it.
If what you are saying about your partner is, but,
but they're capable of it.
They have the potential, and you are taking on the
responsibility of thinking, you are supposed
to have the magic words
and maybe the the magic ass mouth,
whatever body parts you're playing
with in your kink relationship,
and that is gonna somehow miraculously make them live up
to their own air quote potential.
You are setting yourself up for failure. Apparently.
I had some thoughts on this. I see that we have no details.
I don't know what this particular person's situation is.
I don't know if it's Yeah.
Beating your head against a brick
wall and nothing else changes.
I don't know if it's just incompatibilities
that you can't align.
Mm-Hmm. , I don't know if it's the very common
thing of being long distance
and you're non kink relationship getting in the way
and pulling you away from one another.
And so then everything does start to fall
- Apart.
There's, there's a lot of different
possibilities. There's so many, many things. Yeah.
- Many things. Um, I think ultimately
the biggest thing people need to remember, I don't care
what size of the slash you are, I don't care
what role you have, I don't care what your kinks are.
I don't care what kind of human you are,
we all deserve a relationship that
we are mostly content and happy with.
Mm-Hmm. , whatever that means for you.
And however that looks.
Some people are gonna be content
and happy with a lot less than other people,
and some people are gonna require a lot more.
And that all of that is valid.
And if you are putting in the effort, and,
and even if you're seeing that your partner is trying
and you're still not there, and you're not content
and you're not happy, and you spend more time going,
oh my God, how do I fix this?
How do I make this work? Why am I so miserable?
That other person might be the kindest, sweetest,
best human being you've ever met
that does not make them the right partner for you.
True. And it is both as simple as and as complicated as that
because sometimes they are a really nice person
and you're unhappy and you're gonna be the one
that maybe breaks their heart temporarily.
I think all of us want to be somewhere where we're valued
and we, you know, are with a person who wants to be with us.
So yeah. Temporarily. Mm-Hmm.
, you break their heart. Maybe,
maybe that's what you do.
And they are sad and upset.
They are a grown ass adult
and will work through that in their
own way, on their own time.
Right. And they may find the,
after that they may find the partner that is perfect
for them and that they are the happiest they've ever been.
Well, and at the same time you might too.
So there, you know, I think,
I know I've always gotten the message of don't be selfish,
you know, especially Mm-Hmm.
Socialized as a woman. Mm-Hmm. In western culture.
Don't be selfish. Think of the others.
Think of other people. Think of the people you care about.
Take care of them. And too many of us do that
to our own fucking detriment.
- Detriment. Yes. And, and you know, that was,
that was something I listening to you talk and,
and things you're saying.
That was something that had come to my mind.
You know, when a relationship is not healthy,
um, you know, and again, we don't know details or,
or you know, what the, the nuances
of what's, what's happening here.
But, you know, it's easy
to play the what if game.
Mm-Hmm. , you know, what if I did this?
What if I did that? What if this, you know, was different?
And, you know, it's easy to get caught up in that and,
and, you know, be kind to yourself.
- Yeah. Realize, - You know. Yeah.
, I, I, I mean, you know what,
what she says about being selfish.
You, you know, BS there comes a point you have
to take care of yourself.
- That's the thing. We are taught
that selfish is a negative.
And sometimes Mm-Hmm. sometimes it's,
- Yeah.
- But it's just like on the P plane, parents,
please put your oxygen mask on
before you help somebody your child.
Mm-Hmm. , please put your own oxygen mask on
before you help your neighbor.
Yeah. This is no different.
If you can't take care of yourself and be taken care of
and be happy and satisfied, how the hell
are you gonna have a relationship where e Right.
Everybody is, is in a good place. Mm-Hmm.
, it's taking care of yourself is techn the
technical definition of selfish, but it is not negative.
It is not the, the way we are often taught to think
of being selfish.
Mm-Hmm. it is, I am taking care of me
because quite frankly, who the hell else is going to.
Right. Especially if you're in a relationship
that you would describe as disintegrating,
and your kink partner is not taking care of you,
not helping, not pushing you to take care of yourself,
and they don't seem
to maybe even care whether you're taking care of
who's gonna do it, if not you.
- True. True. - Onyx clearly agrees in the background.
- Yeah. Yep. - That's,
I don't know if the mics are picking it up,
but that's her. Yeah.
- But, but, but she's, uh, she's, she's, she's got a lot
to say on something on the matter. Yep. Yeah. She,
- She feels deeply about this.
Mm-Hmm. . Ultimately,
what do you do if conversation
and communication has not already occurred?
To the point you were like, I think I've said these
things at least once.
Of course, always start there.
You know, what's going on with them?
Is there something, you know,
because the other truth
of the matter can be if you are an anxious person
for whatever the reason, you know, mental health,
neurodivergency, whatever, if anxiety is a part
of your makeup, it is easy to think something's wrong,
and it's about you when it's not.
So, yes, the first step always needs to be communication.
Mm-Hmm. . But there has to come a point where
you decide for yourself, I've,
I've communicated I've said what I need to say.
Yeah. And nothing is changing.
I understand where they're coming from,
but I'm still not happy, whatever it is.
Um, and when you try to communicate,
if you are getting blown off by a partner
and they are refusing, or they are saying the same thing
and doing nothing different,
and nothing's changing you, you've done the best you can.
You can't make somebody talk to you.
You can't make somebody change.
You can't make somebody agree with your point
and internalize that agreement.
Right. Like, you can't, you can't make enforce any of that.
Always start with communication.
But then after that, regardless of the reasons
for the relationship falling apart, how do you feel?
Right. Would you know, are you happy? Are you content?
Do you wanna keep having this fight
for the next however long?
Mm-Hmm. . Right. And I hope
that more people will say to themselves, no, no, I don't,
I don't want to Mm-Hmm.
, I don't wanna do this. Yeah.
And I don't think I'm the type,
and I did this, I've done this
with every relationship I've ever had that did not succeed.
I will push for repair
and push for communication
and a fix probably longer than I air quote ought to.
But it's so that when it's done, I know that I'm comfortable
that I did what I could do.
Everybody's threshold for how much that's gonna be
and how long they're willing to go is different.
Different. Yeah. That's okay too. Okay.
If you tried twice and you're like, done, that's valid.
Mm-Hmm. , if you tried like me 11 million times
before, you could say, woo, done.
That's also fine. Yeah.
But I think it goes back to what you said at the top.
You find your way to acceptance now. Yeah.
And acceptance doesn't mean your heart's not broken. Right.
It doesn't mean that you're not sad, it just means
that you're like, Hmm, I don't,
I don't want to keep fighting this.
Right. You know, and I really listen to those,
those little feelings, like if you feel a sense
of relief at the idea
that this might be over, there's that, that
- There's some truth there.
You gotta pay attention to that. That speaks
volumes in and of itself then. Yeah.
- Exactly. Yep. So, yeah. What, uh, are, are you good?
Any final thoughts? Okay.
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