- You are listening to the Loving BDSM podcast,
episode 3 93.
Okay. The Lord's here with the one, the only, the
you doing okay over there?
JB, you need, you need some more coffee?
Is that what you need? You need some more
coffee, don't you, John Brownstone.
- I need, I need something. I
don't know what it is though. I,
- We, we might need to get into harder
stuff than coffee.
- Irish coffee. Yeah. Ooh.
- You know, I, I mean, this would not make an Irish coffee,
but I believe we still have some vodka
in a cabinet somewhere.
I'm, I'm not above spiking my own drink.
- Do we have, I think Irish cream still? Or kaa? I don't.
- Oh, I think we might have Kaa .
- Okay. Anyway. - Okay.
It's not what we're here for, but, uh, we record this intro
well in advance, uh, like good 30, 45 minutes
before recording the episode.
So if we seem a lot more relaxed when the episode
- Starts, you'll know. it.
- It might have gotten a little boozy over here as long.
- I'm like, - .
Uh, we are, that's none of what we're talking about. Nope.
This week we're doing A-B-D-S-M Reddit response.
Um, I don't know if I'll rant,
but I can never promise that.
Mm-Hmm. . So we'll find out together.
- Who never knows? Does one? Yeah,
- No, never know.
And it'll just happen. Maybe if I had something
to drink, I spike my coffee.
Oh, there would definitely be some rants ahead. .
Welcome to the Loving BDSM podcast.
If this is your first time listening, glad to have you.
And yeah, it's pretty much like this all the time.
If you're back for another week, welcome back.
Loving BDSM is produced every Monday
and Friday for your kinky pleasure in education.
And show notes are found@lovingbdsm.net.
Come back often and feel free to add the podcast
to your favorite podcast app.
You can also follow the show on FetLife at Loving BDSM PC
that stands for podcast Y'all on Instagram
and threads at that, uh, handle I will forever fucking Hate
with the passion of a million fucking sons, uh,
loving Ds and the number one.
So that's at Loving DS one.
Or on YouTube at youtube.com/loving
bdsm, where you can watch us live.
Stream the podcast every Wednesday,
all links during the show notes.
A big thanks as always to our Kinky Patrons over on Patreon,
including our newest peeps.
We're able to keep being weirdos on the internet
because of our kinky patrons,
and we are grateful for every fucking one of you.
We are. If you'd like to join our kinky community
and get access to extra content,
we just recorded a very silly video today, , uh,
and a discord server with a group of super cool,
super nice kinks.
You can do that. Just join us at patreon.com/kayla lords.
That's patreon.com/kayla lords.
Or use the link in the show notes.
You can do whatever you want with that button.
You're the daddy. That's how this works.
I mean, not whatever with the button's consent,
but the button is also not sentt.
So can the button consent at all?
- Well, if the button says, click me,
then that then is
- The - Button is, is that
- The top?
The button told you to click it and you clicked
- It.
Well, either, either way
that means the button consented to being clicked.
- True. True. But now I need
to figure out its role in all of this.
Yeah. Ah, okay. Anyway, . Anyway,
- You ponder that and get back to us about it. Okay.
- You don't want me lost in thought, .
This will be a very strange episode either way,
but stranger than usual, if you let me go off.
Lost in thought. Okay.
So before we get into the, the wild
and wacky part of, uh, Reddit,
that is the BDSM advice subreddit.
Um, is this a moment?
I forgot to check the BDSM on the asshole, uh, subreddit run
by rah of the Pink Kink Podcast.
Yes, I did. So sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm so sorry.
I was tired last night. Anyway, off, off topic already. Um,
- Didn't take long.
- I know. I did an announcement, a reminder
that we have an Etsy shop where all kinds
of things can be found currently.
I just added a new shirt design that's personalizable.
So I put examples up so people could see
what it could look like, but it could literally
be whatever works for you.
It's a collegiate style.
So the lettering that's like,
that looks like a college or a school, right?
Yeah. And it's your title or your label,
and then it says established and you give the year.
So like, mine would say submissive established 1979.
'cause that's the year I was born. If anybody thinks
that's old, you shut your face right now.
It's not old. Um, .
But it could also be the year that you figured out
that title for yourself.
Like it could be like established 2012.
'cause that's when you figured out, that's when
I figured out I was submissive.
Right. , um, bra pet, master Mistress,
whatever your title or label, it's personalizable
and it's, uh, available in 10 different colored shirts.
So, uh, are there two purple to choose from?
Of course, two pink, of course to choose from.
Two blue to choose from. Yes.
But there is also a deep red that's very pretty.
Uh, and then other colors, but that link is in the places.
Um, I'm very, I've had that sitting there going,
I should really like put that out
so people could buy it if they wanted, uh,
for three months.
So I finally did it.
Um, so there is that, if
that is not to your liking.
Favorite our store. 'cause I have other
personalizable ideas.
I just haven't gotten that far yet. So
- Y'all are youngsters.
- Oh, everybody in the live chat's thrown out years
and you're like, oh, can I,
you could tell them. I could tell them. Yeah.
- 61. - Yeah. Somebody out there is older than that.
Don't worry, you're not alone.
Um, so
yeah, that is the thing.
New shirt design. I'm very proud of it.
I can't wait to see what titles
and years people put in when they purchase it.
Mm-Hmm. . Because I
think that's gonna be very interesting.
Um, so yeah, that's the announcement.
Um, we were asked a question in the live stream then I'm
gonna answer now 'cause I will forget.
Uh, Mr. Fisher asked when the last time was,
we checked her PO box last week.
I'll be checking it again next Monday.
So there, that was the que And,
and for anybody didn't know, we have a PO Box.
Um, I try to keep the address around and Yeah.
Now the live chat is just everybody's year. . Yeah.
I like that. Okay.
- Yeah, so far I've got the, uh,
- Of the years being shared.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure somebody listening the
podcast is like, Nope.
Older than born before 1961. Okay, so let's get into these.
Let's, let's find out if, uh, I'm gonna rant today. Okay.
This one makes me a little sad
and could be a very interesting conversation.
J hasn't seen any
- Of these.
No, I haven't. I just, and he's
- Looking at it now.
, hold on. I want us to be sensitive on this one.
- Okay. All all right. Alright.
- Title says, I have a spanking fetish, but a terrible ass.
What are my options?
So I enjoy light domestic discipline and DDLG.
Nothing gets me going, uh,
more than bending over a man's knee.
Problem is that my ass is terrible, flat, square,
hairy, pimply.
I'm trying my best to fix it in any way I can.
But in the meantime, are there men
that would enjoy spanking an ugly ass?
Most of the guys I meet say they love spanking,
and then clothes come off and they visibly grimace.
And when I ask for, uh, spanking, most avoid answering,
I asked a guy directly about it
and he said a huge part of spanking
for men is the attractiveness of the ass round,
soft, thick, bouncy.
He said that it'd be hard for a men
to ever enjoy spanking my ass.
Is this true? I would like to pinch this man's head.
- Same. Just pinch it - Off. Yep.
Because are there people who have a visual preference?
Of course there are. Yeah.
But no man will ever spank your ass because I find it ugly.
Right. Is like gross. Yeah, it is gross.
- Um, you asked the wrong person. Yeah, you did. Okay.
Yeah, you did. You asked the wrong person.
So, you know, um,
for me it's, you know, just gimme an ass to spank.
- I, I know what my ass looks like now.
I don't have like anything oozing on it,
but it ain't, you know, it ain't a 20 year old's ass.
Mm-Hmm. . I haven't been to the Waxer in a hot
minute, so it's not, you know, peach fuzz back there.
My people are so worthy people.
Um, and you have got no problem coming at my
- Ass.
No, I don't.
- I worry for this person
because they are describing their ass as terrible.
Right? Is that because they looked at it
one day and went, oh no.
Or is it because some or many assholes went, no, thank you.
Now, if they're, so
I don't wanna cast dispersions on a person's butt
who I have never seen, will never see,
and also have my own personal preferences in life.
But all I could think is when,
when somebody says it's pimply, okay, are we talking oozing?
Like are we talking open source?
That's a medical issue
and I would beg you to please go get that checked out.
Um, are we talking like any human being can have like on
your back or on your face, like just a zit here and there?
Yeah. You know, if it bothers you personally as the, the one
who owns the ass, like maybe look into, you know,
special soaps or whatever, whatever.
Go to a dermatologist if that's available to you. Sure.
Um, if the hair bothers you personally, uh,
a good waxer is the best money you can ever pay for,
in my personal opinion.
Uh, and I love my waxer and I miss her terribly. Hmm.
Um, but before I ever waxed,
and now that I'm back to being quite swar in some places,
uh, I still got somebody who's like,
no, no, back that ass up.
I would like to put my hands on it.
And other bits and pieces, this person has been
around the absolute not right for them partners.
Right.
- And yet, you know, I can understand how, how they,
how they feel about that.
Um, when I was younger, um,
at the time, several over the course of time,
not at the same time at that, um, people
that I were interested in were like, oh, no,
I could never go out with you.
You were too hairy.
- Yeah. - You have too much body hair. Mm-Hmm.
- . It's like, well, thank you
for making sure I knew about your personal preference.
Mm-Hmm. in the most like, hurtful way. Yeah.
Thanks. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. So I get it.
People get to have their preferences. Sure.
And there are absolutely people out there who care more
for the visual than anything.
Now sometimes it's a legit preference and sometimes it's
'cause it's
'cause of issues where I don't wanna insult people.
I don't know. This is where I kind of go back to
and I'm, I'm, I guess I'm just not built
for anything casual ever.
Because when it's a casual hookup
or a casual play partner, I feel like it,
from observation, it looks like it's way easier for them
to sort of like narrow you down to your bits and pieces
and to, and then you know, oh,
you have this thing I don't like, so
therefore I don't like any of you.
Okay, fine. But when you're genuine friends with a person,
you care about them as a human being.
Either you don't even notice that and it doesn't matter.
Or you go, okay, yeah, I'm not used to this.
And then you get used to it and
you go, yeah, but this is who they are.
And again, and then it doesn't matter.
And I just am like, I,
I wish this person could had said,
I've always thought my asses like this.
Or I've had enough
shallow people tell me my a is like this.
And now I think it, because that to me is the mm-Hmm.
the difference if, I mean, there are plenty,
plenty of people with what they might describe as a flat ass
that get it spanked, left, right, and center.
I will respect a person's personal preferences
and also be very unimpressed with anybody who's like, oh,
I only wanna spank an ass that jiggles in an exact way
and has an exact what circumference.
Like what, what Then you only wanna smack a
very specific type of human being.
And not all of those people want to be spanked by you.
So I guess you've just limited your own options. Yeah.
And, and it is a, a hard line to walk
because personal preferences get to exist.
You get to like what you like and dislike what you dislike.
I think the difference is between the inside thoughts
that maybe are judgy Mm-Hmm.
and what we say out loud and
being insulting to a person.
Right. You know, it,
it's, yeah.
And I also kind of, kind
of wonder if it's like these people
who are telling this person this,
they only wanna smack a certain kind of ass.
How many asses have they actually smacked in real life?
Mm-Hmm. . And also I think somebody's mentioned
it, um, in the live chat.
Uh, are they only going after a specific age of person
or size of person?
Or like, all like, I mean, I'm already
less than impressed with those folks.
There will be somebody that wants
to smack that person's ass.
Mm-Hmm. , you know, maybe the selection process
for how they find a partner needs to shift a bit.
Maybe they need to, to,
to go look in a different pool of people.
I don't know. I don't know. Yeah.
But good, I mean, I, I'm, I think back
to when I was in my twenties
and much more insecure than I
was in my thirties and forties.
Not that I'm fully secure now,
but I'm much better than I was.
I if I, I,
I probably would've struggled if I had known I
was into spanking in my twenties.
'cause I was very conscientious about my body.
What that ended up sometimes meaning in my like late
teens when I was a legal adult.
But like, you know, 18, 19, 20
was I would pick the absolute most garbage people
because I thought I couldn't do any better.
And then they would treat me badly and say bad things.
And my self-esteem was still in the fucking tank worse than
it was on my own without their help.
And so I'm just like, you know, I'm kind
of glad I wasn't into spanking at that age
because I don't know if I would've bared my ass either
or if I had gotten one insult from some dumb ass
who was not worth my time and attention.
But I didn't know it at the time. Mm-Hmm.
If it would've like fucked me up
by the time I was like bending over for you,
I was like, oh, here we go.
Okay. Right. And you sure shit didn't have problem with it.
Mm-Hmm. The other thing is, I would like to see
what I imagine is probably some crusty dusty men telling
this person that their ass is not attractive enough.
Right? Yeah. 'cause the people I I have found
off the internet who have the most opinions about their
partner's body, if we were being mean
and judgy, we could find about 85 things wrong.
Air quote wrong with that person.
We don't do that 'cause we're grownups here,
but I feel like we could .
It's usually the, the one throwing the stone at a glass
house kind of situation.
Yeah. They probably shouldn't. Anyway. Yeah.
Anyway. Yeah. When we talk about the, the part
that made me kind of go Mm.
Is when they refer to their butt as being pimply,
I'm just like, okay, are we talking open wounds?
Right. And skin that's been picked at
that probably shouldn't be spanked anyway in general.
Right. Or you just got some, you got a skin,
you got stuff with your skin.
Like, there's somebody out there
who will spank that as Yeah.
I have no doubt. I have no doubt.
Get away from these crusty dusty men. Mm-Hmm.
Who are telling you otherwise because I'm pretty sure. Yeah.
Yep. Okay. Okay. This one made me a little sad.
The comments of this one, um,
made me feel a little bit better about
response this person might get.
So here we go. Okay. Is BDSM holding me back from having a
healthy and happy relationship?
Uh, I am female 29 starting to think I have to let go
of kink and BDSM I'm struggling to connect with people
who are either not into kink at all
or are into BDSM in an exploit exploitative way.
My last long-term relationship in 2022 had an intense
and wonderful DS dynamic when things were really good,
but he ended up being physically abusive
and emotionally manipulative
after working through so much in therapy
and finally feeling secure in almost every aspect
of my life, I'd really like to make a connection,
fall in love and have a healthy lasting relationship.
I'm putting so much work into meeting people on different
platforms, going on dates, being open-minded, listening
and trying to adapt still, it's not yielding anything.
And it makes me feel so lonely
to keep putting myself out there like this.
I'm finding men in the BDSM community talk a lot about
communication and aftercare and all the books they've read.
Like they're trying to lure you into a false sense of safety
only to prove themselves to be selfish
and at times very dangerous.
I've tried to move slowly with dating kinky people.
I'm emotionally articulate and have been so explicit
and communicative about what I want and don't want.
I take more time talking
and try not to rush things with sex.
But when it finally comes down to sex,
it's like no one is listened and I see their true colors.
So it's almost like I can't trust anyone
to engage in a dynamic that is entirely built on trust.
And I don't wanna fall into an abusive dynamic again.
I've tried to go on more vanilla dates slash apps,
and I've met really wonderful
and kind people who are genuinely interested in me,
but things don't match up in the bedroom.
There's just this need for BDSM inside me.
And if I can't have that, it makes me feel so alienated
and disconnected from myself and my partner.
I've slowly tried to bring ideas of kink into conversations
or encourage them to express what desires they have.
The more I reveal about myself,
the more they think something is wrong with me.
Or sometimes they're really kind
and say they're just not into that
and don't judge me at all either reaction
sends me into a shame spiral.
It's just a vulnerable position to keep putting myself in.
I've never felt so lonely
and sad about my romantic slash sexual life before
and it's really starting to get to me.
So the questions, um, should I stop dating
and try to reframe my body and mind away from BDSM?
Has anyone found that they've never quite found the right
dynamic in BDSM?
So they decided to call it quits before it does more damage.
Should I put more effort into more vanilla dynamics if I'm
missing out on having a real and lasting connection?
I feel like this person needs to take a damn
break from dating all.
Yes. Just for a hot ass
- Minute.
Yes. That's exactly what I was thinking. They
- Do not seem to be in the right mindset
no matter what flavor they
- Go for.
Right. They, um, you know, the, the the first question there
to stop dating and, and try to refu my body
and mind away from BDSM, um, you, no.
You don't need to stop thinking about BDSM.
What you need to do is you need
to stop step back from dating
because whatever you're doing,
the people you're meeting is not working
and you keep doing the same thing over
and over expecting different results.
That's not gonna happen.
You need to step back
and take some introspection time and, and maybe
- Just be, be by yourself for a while
and figure, I mean, I don't know any, I don't wanna, like,
I'm placing a lot on this person, but like Mm-Hmm.
, are you happy in other parts of your life?
Are you connected to yourself?
And so that you're outside of this, you're doing things
that you love, you're pursuing your own interests,
you're growing as a person in a way that makes you happy.
Are you exploring BDSM as a concept
outside of a relationship?
Are you going to munches? Are you going to workshops?
Are you learning Mm-Hmm. Are you meeting people without the
expectation of, uh, relationship?
Right. Because if be, if you, you know,
I think it's worth when, when you feel like air,
the big air quotes, air quote,
like you're failing at something.
I think it's worth taking a step back and thinking about it
and deciding for yourself, is this worth pursuing or not?
I would never tell somebody not to have
that internal Mm-Hmm. , you know
- Yeah.
- Whatever word I'm looking for. Or to talk to friends
who are understanding of kink, uh, .
Yeah. I feel like maybe those would be,
you'd get better results that way.
Right. But, you know,
and the decision, if the decision that you make is,
I don't wanna do kink anymore, that's valid.
But I'm not sure that being disappointed in all
of these relationship aspects, um,
and making that decision one way
or the other in the middle of all of this disappointment,
is necessarily the best way to do it.
- Like, right. And, and you know, what,
what they're talking about there, you know, the fact
that they, they maybe should put their thoughts and,
and energy into more vanilla dynamics and,
and you know, what that may be.
But you say how important the, you know,
the DS life is to you, you can step back from BDSM,
but I would almost bet dollars donuts at, at some point,
you know, there's gonna be some resentment coming up there
that you gave this up, you know, and,
and walked away from it.
- Or you just keep finding partners like they're,
say she's saying in the vanilla side
that are incompatible in the bedroom.
Right. You're just dissatisfied in the bedroom. Yeah. Yeah.
Even if you're not, even if it's not resentment, it's still
an incompatibility Mm-Hmm.
that you may still have and Right.
You know, there's plenty of people regardless of gender,
but it is certainly very common among women who say, well,
mine that I shouldn't want that.
I should, they'll tell themselves I shouldn't need that.
Mm-Hmm. , uh, it doesn't matter.
It's not what I need to make me happy.
Because many of us have been taught that sexual
desires and needs are not as valid
as other desires and needs.
And that's true for some people, and that's fine.
But for some people it is. It's about overall satisfaction.
Mm-Hmm. with your life and with a partner.
But quite frankly, I think it's time
to just close down all the dating apps.
Yeah. Get off a fucking fet life.
Just go be a person living your life for a while.
Just 'cause I think that's a different, you come back from
that six months, a year, five years, Mm-Hmm.
I don't know. I think you're a different
person in the dating world.
Sure. You know? Yeah.
Getting in touch with, this is
what I need, this is what I want.
Mm-Hmm. This is what makes me happy.
And the person who is allowed to enter that is not allowed
to disturb my peace in that way.
Right. They have to. I don't want to need them.
They, I want to want them.
- Mm-Hmm. . And
- I think you make different decisions
- And you know, I, there there comes a point when, you know,
and, and, and that's fine.
You know, you want what you want. Mm-Hmm. .
Okay. You, you, you'd love to have a relationship and,
and that is fine.
There's nothing wrong with that. Mm-Hmm.
But I think there also comes a point where you become
so focused on finding that, um, you know,
are are you enjoying what you're doing at that point? Yeah.
- That's a valid - Question. You know, uh,
because you're, you're so focused on this one thing
and, you know, are you having fun?
Are you enjoying yourself or
- Is it work?
- Yeah. So, you know, I,
and I think you kind of, you know,
step back from the dating, go to workshops, go to munches,
not with the intention of meeting somebody, going out there
and having fun and enjoying yourself.
And sometimes you never know what's going
to come along when you're just out there
living your best life.
- Right. Ex Exactly.
And it's the thing you can't predict
and nobody can say, oh, it'll happen
after this amount of time.
Or when you're in this Mm-Hmm.
, you know, position in life.
Like, none of none of that. It's random. Yeah. It is chaos.
And that is the frustrating part.
Um, the other thing,
and I, you know, I appreciate where she says, you know,
I've spent time talking to them
and I've, they're saying all the right things
and I'm taking my time, and I go back to a thing that a lot
of people don't like to hear from us.
And I maybe it makes us old
fashioned and I don't give a fuck.
Have you tried just seeing if these people,
if you wanna be friends with them,
because here's my thing, if I don't Mm-Hmm.
, if we're talking about long-term
relationships, if I don't wanna be your friend,
if I can't imagine just hanging out
with you without there being a relationship,
I don't wanna be in a relationship
with you Now, that is me personally.
Mm-Hmm. . And everybody has their own method
and their own criteria and how they approach things.
Yeah. But if vanilla
or kinky, you keep being disappointed, would any
of these people have been friend material?
Would any of these people, if you weren't trying
to pursue a romantic or sexual
or something relationship with them, would you have wanted
to just hang out with them as friends?
And if you cannot answer emphatic yes to that,
you know, I, again, I go back to your,
you're in the wrong pool of people.
Like something about the selection process.
Something about where you're looking for people,
something about how you are interacting with people.
And maybe, and I worry
because this is very common,
are you holding firm to your own boundaries?
Have you created your own boundaries of I will accept this
and I will not accept that?
Mm-Hmm. , you know, I,
and I, you know, I don't ever like the idea
of blaming the person who is struggling,
but also, as you said,
we often get into repeated beha patterns of behavior.
We do the same thing. Mm-Hmm.
over and over again
hoping for a different outcome.
And instead all we're doing is meeting
the same kinds of people.
Tho the people are the assholes.
I'm not saying this person is the asshole,
but this person is not adjusting to something.
Right. And, you know, it could be as simple as
back off the dating of anybody Mm-Hmm.
and go get happy with yourself for a while.
Right. It could be as complicated as look
for people you'd wanna be friends with first
before you ever worry about a relationship.
Mm-Hmm. , all of it requires
the dreaded P word.
I don't like this word. Many people don't like this word.
And that is patience. Mm-Hmm.
patience sucks when you want what you want.
I get it. It's disappointing. It's frustrating.
You feel like you're missing out.
This woman is 29, and I, she doesn't say it,
but I remember being 29, I've known many, many,
many 29 year olds.
I also have an internet access
and can listen to 29 year olds on the internet.
And many of them slash y'all have gotten it in your head
that if you haven't done something by 30,
you are somehow behind.
I am 44. You are 62.
We are still doing new shit all the time.
And is part of this an internal belief system that she has
to find this relationship
and be on a certain path in life by a certain age,
or she's somehow behind
that is a common enough belief Mm-Hmm.
that I can't, it's, if I was in conversation
with this person, that's some of what I'd want to know.
Like, do you think you're behind in some way
that you have to rush this?
Is that part of it, you know? Yeah.
Because just, and I think of it
because it's so common and Mm-Hmm.
Like I said, I remember being in my twenties Yeah.
And it is rough out there in your twenties, like Yeah. Yep.
You've, we've already got, you know, a culture in a society
that tells, is trying to tell, especially women,
but people in general that by a certain age,
you're somehow like done for,
and certainly younger than I currently am .
And yet I've done more new and exciting
and stressful things in my life.
Well, past the age of 30. Right? Yeah.
And many people who get, get themselves past the age of 30
and certainly past their thirties in general,
are like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Life kind of just keeps going.
It doesn't just stop because we didn't hit arbitrary goals
that somebody else set for us.
You know? So that's another place that my mind goes.
So, yeah. Uh, stop dating for a while. Mm-Hmm.
. Just, just get, get, do, do shit
that makes you happy as an individual.
Right. Get, you know, it'll take a while.
It might be difficult,
but, you know, get to a point where a person
who comes into your life adds to it,
and you don't need them.
You want them. And that's hard to do. Hard to do. Yeah.
I stayed in a, a not good relationship
for a very fucking long time
before I could learn that lesson.
Um, but yeah. And also, you know, it sucks out there.
The dating life is rough. I'm so grateful.
I'm not trying to date, I'm
so grateful I don't have to worry about the apps.
I'm so grateful that I can ignore every unsolicited DM in FE
that's like, you know, bow down to me
or be my mistress.
I'm like, did you read the room anywhere in here?
Did you just ? Like, it's, it's,
it can be awful out there.
Yeah. And I just think, well,
why do you keep doing it to yourself then?
Like, just take a step back. I don't know.
I hate, I always feel a little inadequate, uh, giving, uh,
dating advice, uh, as a happily married woman ,
who doesn't have to go through it.
So
- Yeah.
It, it's, it's a, it's a, you know, I'm, I'm kind of glad
I'm not, uh, dating Yeah.
At this point in my life. Um,
it's a whole new world out there with, with these Yes.
- And the way we get to, we as a a, as
people in general, not as individuals.
Mm-Hmm. the way people sort of are allowed to
and have found that they can behave online with other people
where context doesn't matter.
There's no nuance. Ghosting is seen as acceptable. Yeah.
I'm gonna be old fashioned as fuck for my whole life
unless it's a safety thing I'm gonna give side by
to ghosting, I'm gonna say, Mm-Hmm.
, um, for long-term stuff,
not y'all had two conversations
and you never wanna talk to that person again.
That's, that's different. Um,
but I just, I don't know.
I, I think that the expectations for people who are trying
to date online have changed from back in my day.
Um, I think the way we behave with one another,
because it doesn't feel as real when you don't have
to look somebody in the eyes that has changed, you know?
Yeah. I just, too many people want to be able
to have conversations that can fit into a tweet.
You know, the kind you don't pay for .
Um, you know, and it's, I I think it makes it harder
and it fucks it all up and it takes even longer
and much more patience
to find a compatible partner or partners.
And also, I think Ella is going to now cry in the back.
Yeah. She's in here. Uh, I think she thinks she's trapped.
So, okay, here we go.
Let's go into this next one. Okay.
Um, this one is super long. Ah, okay.
Um, the title is Dom Air quote,
soft Limit Violation on Second Play Date.
How to handle a Sub.
Uh, this comes with a trigger slash content warning.
This post includes descriptions
of boundary pushing behavior,
and violations that could be triggering.
Okay. Um, I 34-year-old female am new
to BDSM, and just had a second ever dungeon play
session with someone local.
I met via Fe. I'm on the subside.
He was playing the dom role. I feel really shitty about it.
It's clear to me my boundaries were crossed,
but I'm having a hard time understanding how and why,
and I could use some advice prior to our first play date.
We both filled in lots of worksheets,
listed out hard and soft limits.
I got some references, et cetera, relevant to what follows.
I have a hard limit of using condoms for any vaginal,
oral or anal play.
And soft limits on anal sex stating, this was challenging
for me, but that if sufficiently warmed up
and in the right context, I was open to trying.
We had a first play date
after lots of negotiation, and I enjoyed it.
We continued to text and arranged to meet again
for a second play session.
During our texting,
he said he had developed intense feelings for me,
and I told him I only wanted to keep it casual.
He seemed okay. A few days later,
we didn't text for 24 hours.
He asked to talk about that,
and we had an hour long phone call to debrief that,
which seemed disproportionate.
I seriously considered canceling play date number two.
I told him I felt anxious
and was nervous to play with someone
who might be angry with me.
And he said, oh, come on.
We ended the call with me feeling stressed.
But then he followed up
with a super reasonable understanding, chill text message,
and I thought it was all fine.
So I went ahead with the second play date.
It was really horrible. Mm.
And then this is where they say,
they get into the content warning that they mentioned
before we started rushed as he was caught in traffic.
The first act was to ask me to strip down naked.
And he attached vacuum pumps to my nipples. A first for me.
We discussed clamps, but not pumps.
It was painful, but tolerable.
I was then asked to kneel
and take off his pants and lick his cock.
I asked for a condom. He said to then lick his balls,
which I then did.
He then rubbed his naked dick all over my face
and lips, which I was keeping closed.
I then said, again, do you wanna put a condom on?
He said, just kiss my head once. And so I did that.
He then did put a condom on, and I sucked him.
He then said to bend over, presenting my ass to him,
and began to finger her or this person's ass.
This was okay. Then he proceeded to fuck me,
anally pretty hard and fast.
This was now about 15 minutes into the scene,
and I was not warmed up.
Mm-Hmm. Or aroused yet.
I was finding it painful and eventually said yellow.
This is too much. He then changed condoms
and fucked me vaginally without first checking
in for a while.
He then had me kneel again
and put his, cocktail my throat
until I gagged repeatedly cried and threw up.
I did not have the ability to say forward,
and he had not given me like a ball to drop to show
that I wanted to stop next.
He tied me up and shaved me.
This, at least we had discussed ahead. Okay.
But then slapped his bare penis against my vul,
which felt uncomfortable to me
as he did not have a condom on.
I didn't say word though,
because I had stated my boundary was around condoms for sex.
And I didn't think to include that, um, that kind
of genital contact explicitly.
But now I feel upset about it.
I have another partner, and I feel awful
that this put her health at risk.
At this point, I was feeling stressed out
and wanted to leave, but didn't really know how.
I didn't feel like I had the confidence
and skills to deal with the situation.
We were alone in a rented dungeon space alone.
And while I didn't feel scared, per se, I did feel awkward
and frozen and ended up just trying to quote, make the best
of things and see if I could get the play date back
into fun territory.
I didn't. It wasn't, mm.
Afterwards he told me that condoms throw him off his game
because all his other partners have not needed them
because it's been based on trust or some such paraphrasing
and how he felt, quote so bad, putting
that plastic thing in my mouth, the condom
that it quote must have tasted bad for me.
So I think he was trying to sneakily get
around the condom thing, which freaks me out.
I finally then left as the dungeon rental period was over.
I feel bad like I did a bad job.
I know it's on the sub to safe work,
and I didn't, I do think he ought
to have discussed anal upfront,
given that it was a soft limit.
And doing anal as a first act with zero warmup
and no check-in seems uncaring.
At least also
after saying yellow, I would've wanted a check-in.
That wasn't actually a call for, please really stop.
But he proceeded with other challenging acts.
The barrier related behavior felt like, quote the letter,
but not the spirit of the law.
Sure. He didn't stick it in me without a condom,
but he did rub his naked penis against my mouth
and vulva, while he didn't seem angry, a part
of me wonders if this play date being so horrible compared
to the first is related to him not getting
what he wanted from me.
Intense emotions, a lot of attention, et cetera.
Or if he felt like he quote deserved it, or some bullshit.
I know I'm in the sub role, but this didn't feel suby.
It felt selfish and bad.
Also, the session was maybe 95% sex
and about 5% a spank or two.
I like impact and bondage.
This is why I'm seeing a play partner at all.
So that just felt really misaligned.
How normal is this kind
of misunderstanding surrounding soft limits?
I feel like an idiot for not being uber explicit about my
soft limits and for not litigating all the elements
of safer sex I care about and for not safe wording,
and just ending the scene when I was hating the sudden
and unexpected anal,
or when I throw up on his cock in a not fun way,
or when I felt uncomfortable that he was doing with me, with
what he was doing with me.
He really should have, have a condom on.
He texted today saying something like,
I may have overstepped some bounds
and I hope I didn't break trust.
Mm. So I think he knows it wasn't okay.
It's all feeling very bizarre.
How do I practically make it feel safer for myself to say
for an endo scene early when I'm not feeling good without
stressing it'll cause a bad air quote, bad scene
for the confident assertive subs.
How did you get that way? And what tactics do you use
to get out of a situation that's just off?
I'm not going to play with this person again,
but I don't even know how to think about this, how
to process this and how to move on.
And yes, I'm seeing a kin of our therapist
and plan to bring this up.
This was a lot. Wow. Yeah. This was intense.
- It is - What I, the thing that comes up,
there's a lot there that, you know, in hindsight you can go,
oh, well, you might have, could have done this.
You might Mm-Hmm. , here's the thing.
That motherfucker had a good first scene with her,
got exactly what he wanted.
Yeah. And then, I mean, it's, there's a term
for it when you switch like that,
and that second scene was all about him.
Yeah. And nothing about her. I
- Mean, the, the, the red flags here are just
- Unbelievable.
We're having afraid of 'em. It's a whole color
- Card, just flipping those red flags.
And, and you know, the thing
that disturbed me the most about all this,
let me see if I can call it real quick.
- There's, there's a lot. - Yeah. Um, you know,
how do I practically make it feel safer
to use their safe word?
Right. And, and you know what, you shouldn't feel
that way if you feel you need to say your safe word.
- Right. - Say the damn thing. Right. Okay.
There should be nothing holding you back
that does not make you less of a sub.
That does not make you, you know,
that's your limits. Damn it. Right.
- If something feels off safe word, I
- Right?
- Yeah. And again, it's easy to say that in retrospect.
Mm-Hmm. , it's easy to say that in hindsight,
in the moment, you know, things were feeling off.
She wasn't feeling comfortable, she wasn't feeling secure.
He certainly wasn't giving off any vibes
that he gave two fucks about her.
Right. So I could see the,
if you're not confident in yourself yet,
or you're not confident in what you're doing yet, I can see
where the hesitation comes from.
The lesson to be learned is that
I don't give a fuck who it is.
I don't give a fuck how long you've been playing. Yeah.
Going forward, if something doesn't feel right Mm-Hmm.
you safe for it, or you, or even
before you even start the scene,
you go, something's not feeling right.
Right. Now, does that mean an asshole like this will not try
to gaslight you into, you know, that's, you know, this is,
that's not really what's happening here.
I mean, of course that's
what these kinds of people tend to do.
Yeah. But, but that's easy in hindsight,
in the moment I get it.
You know, to think that, wait, we talked about this
or that I, you know, this person does a, a thing
that I think a lot of people do.
They second guess themselves.
Well, I said this thing was a hard limit,
but I didn't say explicitly that this thing wasn't Mm-Hmm.
. And that's my fault.
And so then they take all the responsibility on when the
problem, the, the problem is the partner.
The problem is that partner never asked, never checked in,
was based on this description,
was not worried about her pleasure
or what she was getting outta the scene at all.
And I find it like laughable that like the next day,
then there's a, a text of, oh,
I may have crossed some bounds. Oh yes. Think,
- Yeah, think you think
- I'm feeling like he fucking knew
what he was doing in the fucking middle of, of it.
- And, and, and here's, here's, here's something too
that kind of of struck me in this too.
You know, they, they rented dungeon space. Mm-Hmm.
. Alright. We've done that in the past. Mm-Hmm.
. Mm-Hmm. . Okay. You and I,
um, where was the dm?
- It was, and it was a private rental space.
Like where was a person to just monitoring the space? Yeah.
- Yeah. I mean, when, when we,
when we rented the dungeon space that time.
Mm-Hmm. celebrate your
birthday. There was somebody there.
- Right. I don't even think they were in the room,
but they were close enough by, they,
- They were not in the room.
They were, they were in the little office, which was
behind the dungeon, but they were within,
- And there were rules for renting the space.
It's like, if we're downstairs,
you stomp your feet if you need a dungeon monitor, right.
Uh, if we're upstairs, we'll
be watching, but, you know, Mm-Hmm.
, the, the house safe word is blah, blah, blah.
Right. So, like, if you're safe,
word's not working or you forget it.
Mm-Hmm. . And you, the safe,
the house safe word.
Right. And if a dungeon monitor hears the house, safe word.
Mm-Hmm. , they
know they need to be paying attention
- To what the fuck's going on.
I mean, I know dungeons will, you know, allow
for private parties and such.
Sure. But they just don't hand you the keys and say to me,
- They should not, - Here, here you go.
And, and you know, nobody's
- Not, without there being a way to let,
to let somebody know that there's a problem.
Yeah. Because otherwise you could be like, you know,
I can imagine a space where maybe there's different rooms
and you can rent the room as a dungeon space.
Mm-Hmm. . Okay. Then how is
that monitored for people's safety?
Right. How could somebody who is in an unsafe
situation get some help?
What is that? What is that set up like?
And if there's nothing set up like that again,
this is a, a future thing.
It doesn't help the situation that happened.
That's not a place to play, you know? Right.
Um, the, the part that, that, I mean, it all bothers me.
There's not a single part,
but the part that like strikes me is how
that first play date
and the setup for that per first play date was
the way that she described it.
Picture perfect. This is
what you, you would expect, you know?
Mm-Hmm. , we did all the worksheets.
We had all the conversations. Right.
You know, we went over our limits.
And that first one was, was what they wanted enough
that they wanted the second one.
And so then my question is, is this person a predator
who lured her in on the first one
and then thought he could do whatever he wanted afterwards?
- You got her into a false sense of security?
- Or, or was he just on his best behavior for that first one
and then after that thought he could do whatever the fuck he
wanted and got lazy, you know?
Mm-Hmm. . And didn't have to try either way.
He's a walking red fucking flack. Yeah.
You know, I do not blame her at all for all
of her conflicted feelings.
What I hate is she thinks she has
to take any fucking blame for this
- On herself. Yeah.
- Because sure, again, hindsight is always 2020.
We can always find what we could have done different.
But in the moment, you're trapped by your brain chemistry
and your body's reactions
and you don't have any control over those things.
You know, it's about walking into the space with knowledge
and hopefully confidence to, to overcome those moments.
And this person's just too new. They didn't have it yet.
Mm-Hmm. . And they didn't have
a genuinely responsible partner,
even though he fucking sold himself that way.
'cause a responsible partner would've been like, Hey,
I know you said condoms for penetration.
What about for this? What about, yeah. Right.
This is something I'm imagining. What about for this?
Or if her, I, I'm gonna bet fucking money.
Her body language was given off like vibes
and he was doing things
that maybe they hadn't discussed previously.
One, I, I wanna be, I wanna tell people, be careful.
Don't rely just on, on body language.
'cause people don't always read body language well,
but if you are going, wait,
normally they're arriving on the floor screaming in
pleasure, and right now they're very tense and quiet.
Maybe I should just ask a fucking question. Yeah. Right.
The yellow, when she called yellow,
it's the thing about safe words
and it's, everybody handles 'em differently,
but in general, if somebody's safe words,
everything stops right immediately.
Mm-Hmm. , you check in.
Sometimes that safe word is just not that fucking thing.
But I can keep going.
Sometimes that safe word is we, we just need to stop.
But you stop and check in.
That yellow should have been a time to pause, check in.
Right. See where she was at, modify
and couldn't, you know, maybe keep playing,
but I also think, lemme see if I can find it.
There's a lot here. Okay. Yeah.
Where, when she called yellow, um,
you know, it does not seem like he really
even paused.
Now he, what I would tell her going forward
for future negotiations
- Yeah, go ahead.
Um, after saying yellow would've wanted a check
- In this, that's what I'm gonna say.
It was on call for police release stop.
But she said up here she did yellow. Right.
- And he proceeded. Right.
- My point is, my point is for future negotiations. Mm-Hmm.
, what she wanted from
that yellow was a check-in.
Right. Even if you think a future partner knows that,
I would just lesson learned, I'd be very fucking explicit.
If I call yellow, please stop and check in with me. Right.
Don't just stop what you're doing. Yeah.
You and I have the dynamic.
If I call yellow, you're gonna stop with that implement.
Right. You might gimme a quick, like sexy check-in Mm-Hmm.
. But yeah, you're gonna pick up the next
thing.
'cause you know what it means between us
because we played enough Mm-Hmm.
new partners
or partners who just ask,
like they tell you in negotiations,
if I say yellow, I want to check in.
Mm-Hmm. just as much as if I said red. Right.
Yeah. Again, that's for future her to Mm-Hmm.
add in to hopefully avoid some of this stuff.
Yeah. But if somebody's gonna be a walking a red flag
and abusive as fuck
and selfish as fuck, I don't think
all the negotiations in the world are
gonna protect you from it.
Which sucks because it's like, well, how do I,
how do I know the difference
between the asshole who's not worth my time?
Mm-Hmm. and the real kink
who will respect my boundaries.
Right. Yeah. And that's the impossible part sometimes.
Mm-Hmm. , because he did,
he sounds like he did it right in the beginning.
Now what I, my nosy ass would love to be, would love
to have been a fly on the wall.
Because I wonder if he was putting out red flags.
She just didn't, she was too new.
When you're too new, you're not gonna,
some red flags are not overt.
Mm-Hmm. , they're not. This guy's like spewing,
you know, hate speech or something.
It's like really subtle shit that sometimes you don't see
until they have done the worst thing.
You know? And I am,
I'm not involved in casual play at all.
So I don't have the advice of the tools of
how do you circumvent that because a liar's gonna lie.
An abuser's gonna abuse
and they're gonna get away with as much as they fucking can.
Mm-Hmm. . And we,
this has been an ongoing problem, I'm sure for years,
but certainly since the advent of the fucking internet where
bad actors take the language of kink and they use it
and they manipulate people with it.
Yeah. And some of them are real fucking good and Mm-Hmm.
they can't, you can't just tell
from the outside looking in.
Right. And that's the insidious part.
And that's why I think all of us, I don't care which side
of the slash you are, please walk around
with some trust issues.
just not a lot.
Not toxically, not you like Mm-Hmm.
bad for your health trust issues,
but maybe just a few.
But she, again, I it's not her fault. No.
She, at the very beginning, she did
what we would've told anybody to do
and he followed the script and they had a good scene.
Yep. And then he just, he got selfish.
Maybe he's just an asshole,
but he's still just an asshole
who could have caused serious fucking harm.
Yep.
- Mm-Hmm. . - Yeah.
I'm glad at the end she's like,
I'm not playing with that guy ever again.
Gut. Mm-Hmm. . Because that's too many times we
get into conversations where they're like,
how do I make this right with this person?
And we have to go, you don't,
you get the fuck away from them.
Mm-Hmm. So she has learned the lessons
or many of the lessons from this,
and hopefully, you know,
won't have to go through this again.
But, you know, I think there are
the assholes and the abusers
and the walking red flags that prey upon
and take advantage of the fact
that people can talk themselves into going, well,
I didn't explicitly say not this specific thing.
Mm-Hmm. So maybe that shouldn't count in my safe word. Yeah.
And the rule in general is,
I don't care if you never said this was a hard limit.
If something happens that you are uncomfortable with,
you just fucking safe word.
Mm-Hmm. And the new lesson is in the negotiations, Hey,
if I say a safe word, I do expect everything to stop.
And for you to check in a responsible kinks gonna go, yes.
That's what I would do Anyway.
Glad we had this conversation.
Uh, uh, whatever this guy fucking is,
is probably gonna be a surprise to go.
What do you mean? But you know what I knew,
I knew when I first read this
before we got into the bad shit into the meeting,
when she was bringing up in their conversation, first
of all, he wanted a one hour conversation about why they
didn't talk for 24 hours when they are casual play partners.
- Yeah. - Really? Hmm.
But, so that was like, I, I got where she was like,
that seems like overkill.
But then when she says, I'm feeling anxious
and I'm feeling nervous, and his response is, oh, come on.
- Yeah. I know. Yeah. - So again,
hindsight being what it is, right?
Mm mm-Hmm. to me, the message
for her going forward is if somebody does not respect
when you share your
feelings like that and that you're mm-Hmm.
nervous or anxious, and they don't respect
that and they don't like give it the, the, you know,
they're not serious about it.
That's the red flag.
They don't, they don't get to play
with you if they can't take your feelings about
the play seriously.
Right. Before the play even fucking happens. Mm-Hmm.
. Um,
- I mean, you know, if, if someone's feeling that anxious
beforehand, you know, you would even have to have
to ask, you know, well,
is there anything I can do to help with this?
You know? And if, if it's that point, like, okay, well,
you know, maybe we need to scrub this play date
and do it at late at another
- Time.
Right. And a responsible ster, uh,
we talked about this in a previous, I can't remember what,
we're grown adults here.
Mm-Hmm. , you might feel disappointed
'cause the play's not happening, you'll be okay.
Right. So, you know, if, if the person's feeling anxious
and they're not a hundred percent like Sure.
And you can't easily, you know, calm their fears for them
and help them feel comfortable.
Yeah. The play doesn't happen. Mm-Hmm. .
And if you are so disappointed that you're, you lash out
or you, um, ignore the person's feelings
or negate the person's feelings, or, you know, whatever.
I mean, again, I got trust issues
you're not worth playing with.
Yeah. Uh, even casually, right?
Because casual play partners should have basic fucking
respect for one another
and should want this to be a good experience
for everybody involved.
Not just what this selfish bastard was doing,
which is like, I'm gonna get what I want.
And well, she didn't exactly say I couldn't do this, so
how far can I go before she speaks up?
And that is where, you know, I wish,
I wish she didn't have to learn this lesson this way,
but I wish whoever she becomes
after this experience,
hopefully confident, hopefully assertive.
Mm-Hmm. , hell just like ready
to say a safe word at the, the first sign of discomfort.
I wish she could have been that way already without having
to go through this to hopefully get there.
Yeah. Because none of this is her fucking fault. Nope.
Even if from the outside looking in, we're, we could go,
yeah, here's what I would've done if, if, you know, knowing
what I know, she didn't know.
She's too fucking new.
And he said all the right shit at the beginning. Yeah.
And so now it's a lesson learned of Oh, oh.
If they, if they do that to me
before we're even playing, right.
If they tell me that I'm just being, you know, too anxious
or I'm taking it too seriously.
Oh, maybe that's a sign. Right.
May or, or we have to have a one hour discussion
because I didn't talk to you for 24 hours.
Hmm. What, what, what? .
- . - We're not talking about people trying
to negotiate a dynamic
and they're like trying to make this a serious thing.
We're talking about fucking play partners. Yeah. What?
Yeah. Throw the whole motherfucker away,
right? As per usual.
- Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . Oh God.
- Okay. Let's go to the next one.
- Okay. - Okay. This is another one that ha the comments.
At the time when I found this one had me feeling pretty good
'cause they were not toxic bullshit comments
like, like you might imagine.
Right? Here's your title. Okay.
Can you quote, learn being dominant if you're not naturally
sadistic, decisive, and commanding my partner.
Let's call her Jane is really into BDSM.
She even goes to BDSM parties with her other partner.
From what I understand, she is the sub.
Jane has been into the scene for a while now,
and she has her preferences.
While Jane does her best
to make me feel special when we're together,
I too often feel, still feel intimidated and inadequate.
I'm not a naturally decisive or dominant person.
I'm the let's feel good
and be cozy together type of partner.
I feel like Jane's other partners can truly satisfy
her BDSM needs.
Jane has been hinting her needs
of introducing BDSM into our sex life.
I would love to satisfy her,
but I'm super afraid that I'll be a terrible dom.
I feel like, uh, Adam Dom should be decisive, commanding,
confident, and a little bit sadistic.
I'm none of that. Imagine someone shy
trying to act all tough.
Everyone can see through that and it's not
a convincing performance.
I have some questions. one,
can being dominant be learned?
If so, how do I learn that?
Two, how do I get rid of this fear of being a fake dom?
Three. Can you as a member
of A-B-D-S-M community ever be truly sexually fulfilled
by having vanilla sex?
So the stereotypes Yeah.
If you're dominant, you gotta be sadistic.
You gotta be naturally commanding. Mm-Hmm.
, you gotta be, you gotta know
what you want when you want it all the time.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the stereotypes I know are stereotyping.
- Yeah. You know, there again, that, that's small
as far as, you know, the, the reading there,
but there's a lot there.
- There's a lot, there's a lot of insecurity for sure. Yeah.
- Um, you know,
I liken dominance when it comes to power exchange.
Someone who is, and,
and there are people who are natural leaders.
Yeah. Okay. And,
and, you know, they can, they,
they can step up into any situation and,
and they take charge and they can take charge
and, and, and do all that.
What needs to do. Um, you know what, not everybody's born
that way and, you know, so
can somebody learn that my, my answer?
Yes. I think they can. Yeah.
Um, it depends a lot on their desire. Mm-Hmm. .
Mm-Hmm. to, to learn it.
And, you know, because it's the same thing.
You know, you're, you, you work at a job, okay?
And, uh, you know, you're in line for a promotion.
They send you to, you know, management. Right.
Workshops and whatnot. It, it's the same thing.
You have to be willing to be open to it.
And you have to be willing to learn
- And to learn that there are different ways of doing.
Right. Different techniques. There's not management,
leadership dominance.
There's not a single way to do any of that. Mm-Hmm.
. You know, and I think that, I think
what happens, and sometimes it's right for people,
and this is true for people Yeah.
That, you know, dominance for them, whether they learn it
or it comes to them naturally
or whatever, is a decisive commanding
persona that, you know, maybe is a little sadistic,
but that is not required.
Mm-Hmm. sad is sadism
is different from dominance.
Right. Um, but they are, they are commanding and control.
And when they're in that role, the person
or people they are around recognize it.
That is an example
of the infinite ways there are to, to dominate.
But to dominate big d dominate is to be in, is
to be in control or to have the power and control.
Mm-Hmm. However you define that, having power and control.
It does not have to be a big, loud, showy thing.
A dominant who tells they're submissive. I want this.
Doesn't have to have a certain tone to their voice.
Doesn't have to speak in a certain volume, doesn't have
to use specific language
to say, we are doing this.
I want this, I want you to do this.
It can be a very quiet, calm thing.
It can be a thing where the only person,
people who know what this is, are the people involved.
And from the outside, outside looking in,
it doesn't look like anything that they would recognize.
And that is also okay.
You know, uh, pow having the control,
and let's say they're
talking specifically about their sex life.
Mm-Hmm. means that after careful negotiation
and conversations and making sure you have consent
and all those things, then the dominant is the one deciding
what position you're having sex in.
Mm-Hmm. . Right. The dominant is the one
controlling the speed and the intensity.
And how many position shifts have we had tonight?
- JB , you know, - What did you do
for 10 minutes before?
And it's, it, you know, again,
I could not even give you a solid example that will be true
for this person or anybody else
because it's so unique to the individuals.
Right? JB is very rarely, you know, giving me a firm look
or even giving me a firm tone.
He's just quietly doing what the fuck he wants
that he knows I consent to,
and I'm over there quietly fucking
letting him . Like
- It's, you know, - He's definitely in fucking charge.
There's just no need to advertise it, you know? Mm-Hmm.
. It doesn't require him to bark out orders
and to sound real tough.
He sounds real fucking calm.
Like he's ordering his breakfast at a
diner, you know, .
- Hmm. - You do.
You, I mean, sometimes you get into a head space of a scene
where we want something like more intense
and a little bit more rough and
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But not always, actually, actually,
sometimes there's no talking at all.
- Yeah. - You know, because we have had all these years
to negotiate and to understand where each other's at.
And I'm already speaking up
to go, Hey, I got a headache tonight.
Or, or, Hey, if I rub up against you,
will you get the fucking hint ?
Um, or, Hey, if you give me a gummy, I get horny.
That works in your favor. Right?
Like , we have all these shortcuts
as a long term relationship
to let each other know where we're at.
And then sometimes he doesn't say a fucking word.
He grabs my hair and like shoves my face on his cock.
He didn't have to say nothing.
He didn't have to have a persona.
He just had to like, decide what he wanted and do it.
And it could be super quiet. Mm-Hmm.
and super subtle and super.
Like, it just, so to this person, I don't know
what just fell outside the
window. It looked like a squirrel.
- It was a bird that was just like, oh, in front
of flapping in front of the window. Okay.
- Poor podcast listeners. You're like, what
- The fuck is happening over there? Start with me too.
- Um, so to answer this person's questions,
can dominance be learned?
I agree with you. Mm-Hmm. . Yes.
I think the key thing is
that you're not learning a single style
and calling that dominance.
You're, you might be learning from other people Right.
About what that can look like.
And then figuring out what that means to you in,
and especially in this person's case, in conjunction
with a lot of conversation from a partner who kind of knows
what they're into or what maybe they've seen from you
that you didn't consider dominance.
And they were like, yeah, that's kind of
hot and you can grow from there.
Mm-Hmm. , um, the fear
of being a fake dom, that's confidence. And that's time,
- Isn't it?
Exactly. Um, you know, the, the confidence that is something
that comes over time.
Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. , you know, it,
it's the, the old axiom.
The more you do something,
the more familiar you become with it.
And, and that's kind of what what this is too.
You build your confidence by, by doing Mm-Hmm.
. And, you know, I'm not saying you jump in
and do the most complex start
- Real fucking - Simple scene in the world,
you know, start simple.
Mm-Hmm. . And, and you know what?
You're gonna make mistakes. Right.
You're gonna make mistakes. It's going to happen.
You're, you know, regardless of what you are, you're,
you're human being.
You're going to mess up and make mistake.
And it's not the end all.
And, and it's not the end of the world.
You, you learn from your mistakes,
you dust off and you move on.
- Right. And I'm curious, they don't say,
and I, it's a question I would ask this person if I was in
conversation with 'em, is, do you wanna be a dom in a power
exchange way or do you wanna be,
does your partner want you to be a top Yeah.
Where you take control and you're the, the doer
of the giver of, right.
And they're on the receiving end of whatever that is.
Because dominance
and topping are not necessarily the same thing.
And it could be that you gain confidence as a top first
of, I will spank you with the paddle.
I will be the one to decide what, you know,
what gets touched and what gets stimulated,
and are you allowed to come and whatever, whatever.
And I'll decide that without there
being a lot of theatrics to that.
And then maybe you grow into the dominance part
where you're taking control on a, a deeper level than that.
Mm-Hmm. . Um,
and then this last question, this one's so personal.
'cause there's no, again, there's not a single right answer.
Can you as a kinky person ever be truly sexually fulfilled
by having vanilla sex?
Maybe Yes. That's, that's individual, right? Right.
Like there's no blanket answer. Mm-Hmm.
I mean, JB and I have, we always have kinky sex
because we're two people, kinky people who are having sex.
But also there's often elements of rough sex,
which is not necessarily BDSM Mm-Hmm.
. But can be like, I, I can make the argument
because I get way too nuanced and in the weeds ,
but like, your average person might not consider
the kind of sex we have.
Um, anything other than k rough sex,
or they might call that vanilla sex.
Um, but we're two kinky people having sex.
So all of our sex is kinky
because for us, kink is our identity.
So, Mm-Hmm. , if we're doing anything,
it's kinky because kinky people are doing it.
Right. Um, our sex life
follows a certain pattern.
And so some people will define vanilla sex
as being kind of mundane.
And there's like a way it happens every time.
And you're not experimental
and you're not exploring, you're not trying new things.
Well, sometimes we're just old and tired
and look, we're gonna have sex in a spoon position,
penetrate penetration in a spoon position.
But you know, I'm, is my hair gonna get pulled? Yeah.
Is my ass probably gonna get smacked? Yeah.
And sometimes that's all it is.
And somebody else would call that vanilla,
but it is a very fulfilling sex person.
Now, sometimes I'm getting my face smacked,
like I am just a bad, bad girl,
and I fucking love that shit.
and .
And sometimes I'm ma being made to choke on a cock.
And I love that shit. .
But it's not, it's not a,
he didn't like string me up from the rafters of our ceiling
and beat me with a wet noodle.
It's not .
Like, what are you defining as vanilla sex?
If I'm having sex with a partner that I want to have sex
with, and it is good for both of us.
It is fulfilling. I don't fucking care what the flavor is.
Right. And I think there's this, you know, I,
I feel like I hear a little bit of fear from this person
that they're not gonna be enough for their partner.
'cause their partner wants kink elements. Mm-Hmm.
. I also feel like
that maybe when they posted this,
they had not had an in-depth conversation about
what their partner Jane means.
Mm-Hmm. to say, I wanna add
BDSM into our sex life.
I mean, that's like saying, I would like to add every color
that can be created in the universe into our home decor.
What the fuck does that mean? Right.
Like BDSM is such an umbrella term. Yeah.
The conversation to have is, okay, what do you mean by that?
Right. What are you looking for?
What kind of experience do you want to have?
And what, how can I participate in that?
Right. What does this look like to you? Right.
Because it's like, what if what they want is, you know,
to have their hair pulled and have their ass smacked.
Right. They want some spankings. Mm-Hmm.
, they want it to be rougher.
They want a little bit of paint,
but they don't, you know, this person has gone to, I have
to be the dmst dumb my partner's ever had.
And I don't think I can be that,
but have they had the conversation
about what their partner actually wants?
Yep. Yeah. Because it might be they've built it up in their
head to be way bigger than their partner
is currently envisioning.
The other thing is, um, you gotta start small anyway. Right?
So even if their partner does want the entire rainbow
of the colors that are BDSM in their home decor , um,
to beat an analogy to death.
Yeah. Um, you know, if they're experienced in kink,
there's a very good chance, hopefully
that they're aware we gotta start small here.
So like, here's what I'd love. Mm-Hmm. .
But here, here, let's just start with this.
Let's just try this. Mm-Hmm.
, you know, and that's another thing.
I don't hear this in this question.
This person has not said anything about their partner
who has the kink experience being part
of their educational process.
Mm-Hmm. . And maybe it's
'cause it hasn't occurred to them yet.
I'm thinking so, because if it had occurred to them
and they rejected it, I think they
probably would've said something.
And that is the thing to remember.
Hi knew
and emerging dominance
who don't know what the fuck you're doing.
Hmm. If your submissive has the experience
and your submissive is willing
and high submissives, I think you should be willing.
Let them fucking lead you. It's, it's a service. And
- That's act of service.
- Yes. It's an, even if you're not a service submissive
to be the one to lead your partner who is trying to be,
wants to be, you want them to be the dominant
or the top here that service that that can be submission.
You, you don't have to be bossy to do it. Right.
I mean, you can be, if that's your thing,
I probably wouldn't be, but, you know, that's how I am.
Um, . But yeah.
Like lean on the more experienced partner
to point you in the right direction.
Yeah. You know, and to tell you
what the fuck they're envisioning.
I think we overthink things,
especially when we're not feeling confident. Mm-Hmm.
- . Mm-Hmm. - . Okay. One more.
- And I have to, um, - Okay. And we have to let a cat out.
Who has forgotten Yeah. How the windows work.
This is a cat that just came in through the window
and needs to go out the door.
This last one is kind of fun. Okay.
This last one, um, feels right based on, um,
what I've been doing a lot of lately, title,
am I into these kinks
or am I just being influenced by the things I read?
. Okay.
Recently, I've had a few revelations about some kinks
that were previously completely off the table for me.
The two biggest ones being anal
and spanking, which were two,
I had completely rejected the idea of.
However, in the last couple months,
I found myself slowly becoming more intrigued.
In the last few months though,
I've also been consuming more BDSM erotica,
and I'm uncertain if this is just a passing phase due
to the constant consuming
of content involving those kinks in it.
Like, can you get sort of drunk off of reading erotica
to the point of tricking yourself into thinking you enjoy a
kink when maybe you don't.
Uh, so sorry if anyone feels like,
maybe my question is silly, but
I didn't know where else to go.
- . - So there's,
I actually have a lot of thoughts Okay.
Uh, on this. What
- Are your, um, what are your thoughts?
You know, my, my initial thoughts are, you know, in,
in reading this, you know,
or in reading the, the erotica that you are reading
that has BDSM elements to it, um,
she's scratching her back.
Go ahead. And, uh, you know. Yeah.
It, it is entirely possible to become curious, inquisitive.
Mm-Hmm. about it all.
Um, and,
you know, there's only one way you're gonna find out
if you dip your toes in and try it.
- Yeah. - Probably. Yeah. And, and you know what?
It, you may be like, okay,
I'd rather this just stay in the books
that I'm reading, or, you know.
Mm-Hmm. . Oh, yeah.
You know, there's something to this. Right.
You know, so it could go either way.
- Okay. My turn. Okay. Because,
you know, I had thoughts all .
- I know. So first
- Of all, and I don't, I can't categorize these in any
order, so they're gonna be, they're not in order
of importance, first of all, oh, thanks
for tipping the tripod.
First of all, my first question would've been,
what did you think of anal and spanking
and what that entailed before you started reading anything?
Because sometimes what happens
with a thing we thought was completely off limits,
and now we're open to, it's
because we have found out through fiction
or nonfiction that the way it can occur
was not what we originally imagined.
We had a very narrow definition of what those things were.
And by reading stories or watching people
or whatever, we learned that it is much more than
what we originally conceived of.
And some of those different ways
of doing it intrigue us in ways
that our original thought did not.
So that's one thing. Two,
you abso fucking lly can be turned on by something you read
and not actually want to do it in real life.
Mm-Hmm. , I am turned on
by some real dark fucking shit sometimes .
I don't want that anywhere near me.
I mean, I, I recognize the internet loves
to call something a kink
because it turns you on even though you don't want do it.
And it is, it can be a kink.
You don't have to do something for it to be a kink.
But when people reading books are talking about their quote,
new kinks, they're talking about it from the, this,
this is sexy as a fantasy,
but I don't actually want to engage in it.
Yes, it's a legitimate kink, it's fine, it's fine.
But it's like, it's very narrow view of kink.
And, and we as sters tend to go much deeper than that.
So that is also true.
Third, did I have a third thought?
I, I would love to know what BDSM erotica she's reading.
Because my concern would be, are you reading things
that can actually happen right.
? Or are you reading such fantastical things
that some of us who are kinky would be like, no, that's,
- No, that's not, uh,
- The physics on earth just do not allow for that to happen.
Mm-Hmm. . But I'm glad that's turning you on.
Yeah. Um, but also,
and somebody said it in the comments on this Reddit post,
you can be into those kinks
and be influenced by what you're reading.
Both can be true. And it's not bad to be influenced.
I did not know there was a word called submission in, in a,
the way we use it here.
And I did not know I was one
until I started reading other people's experiences
and it opened my eyes
and my mind up to concepts
that I had not previously thought of.
Right. Could not have thought about it
until I was introduced to it in some way.
So yes, what I read influenced me,
but it didn't make me something
that I'm not already, I was that Mm-Hmm.
, I just didn't understand a part of myself.
And I found something that explained me and I went, oh shit.
Yeah. Yeah. And then through practicing it
and trying it, then I went, oh, this is who I am. Yeah. Um,
- I mean, you know, there,
there are some things obviously Yes.
You, you read in, in erotic fiction
and you know what Yeah.
That there, some of
that shit should never see the light of day. Right.
- Right. It's illegal. You would go
to jail if you know those
- Things.
Right. You know, um,
but what they, they're talking about there, you know,
trying anal, trying spanking, I mean,
those are pretty fairly common.
Yeah. Thing maybe, you know, um, still kinky,
but you know, there is nothing wrong
with trying it.
Mm-Hmm. as long as they educate themselves
in the way to do it properly. Right.
- To me, it'd be like the, to me, one
of the e easiest air quote that,
'cause it's gonna be personal for everybody.
The easiest ways to go is this just something I like in this
book I'm reading, or am I interested in this Yeah.
Is to take it outta your book for a minute
and just go to the internet
and do a quick search maybe on exactly the kind
of scenario you're reading.
Because somebody else, assuming again,
an author has not lost the plot
and is trying to do something that
cannot exist in real life.
You know, somebody else has probably talked about that
or will talk about how you can do that
or, you know, we'll have fact hopefully factual
information about how it works.
And if when you read the factual information about
how it works and you go, yeah, maybe,
you know, I'm still kind of intrigued.
It's not as sexy as that thing I was reading, but Right.
Okay. It, I see how this could work
if you're still interested in, you know, maybe bringing up
with a partner, maybe trying
it yourself, whatever, whatever.
I think that's another indication
that this isn't just a thing you wanna read about
that you would never want to experience in real life.
Yeah. You know? Yeah. Those,
those things
exist. ,
- , - I'm thinking about some of the shit I've read
and I'm like, yeah, no, that wouldn't, that wouldn't
that I wouldn't let that anywhere near me
and then I would press charges
on anybody who did that to me.
Um, but I still am turned on by it. Mm-Hmm. .
And I, you know, and I think there's also,
I wanna be careful because I think that a thing,
I said it earlier, I wanna say it again.
I wanna be clear. You can have a kink for a thing
that you have not actively tried
and are not sure you would ever try.
You can have a thing that you maybe would really like to try
or if it was physically possible Mm-Hmm.
or if you had a partner, or
if you just lived a different life.
But also some things are just turn-ons when you read them
and they're not actually kinks.
Mm-Hmm. . Right? Yeah.
Like, you know, a kink is typically defined
as being an activity that you do versus a fetish,
which is this thing you is, uh, is typically required
for sexual arousal and or pleasure.
Right. You get off on it when you, when you encounter it,
it is part of the arousal process for you.
Right. Those definitions are sort of shifting
a bit depending on who you talk to as language changes
and shifts and more people come into the kink world.
But in general, the kink is the activity,
the fetish is sexual, and you can,
'cause you can do a kink, cannot not be sexually aroused.
You can do a kink and be sexually aroused. Mm-Hmm.
. But a fetish is usually classified
by sexual arousal.
Right. Reading something that you define as kinky
and being turned on by it.
Mm-Hmm. is not always,
and not necessarily the same as being a kink you want to do
and it being your kink.
Unless, like Junie said in, um, the live chat
that your kink can be just reading Kinky
Smut and I'm down for that.
Yeah. Reading kinky smut is the activity. Right.
So that's semantics and that's like Yeah.
Way in the fucking weeds of what words mean, whatever
overall, yes, your reading can influence you,
but that is not a bad thing.
It's automatically negative.
The, the beauty of reading in whatever form that takes,
physical books, audiobooks, eBooks.
I don't give a magazine.
I don't give a fuck how you read reading the perspective
of a fictional character or a real human being
and the experiences they're having
because the writer put them down into words in some way,
opens up doors in your own mind
and imagination that you could not have done without
that author doing that thing
and putting those words together
that you can be affected in a positive way.
In this case, a sexual way is about you as the reader
and how what it touches within you
and the power of that author and what they fucking shared
and the thing that turns you on
might not turn on somebody else.
It's, it's, you know, unique to the person.
So please be,
to some extent be influenced by what the fuck you're reading.
That's, that's a, that's a, uh,
honored tradition in reading .
I, that's why reading works so well.
We are influenced Mm-Hmm.
, um, the way to know if it's just a thing
that needs to stay in the pages for you
or a thing you might explore is Yeah.
To go learn. I, I really think learn about it a little bit.
Mm-Hmm. . And if you're immediately turned off
by the practicalities of it,
it might just be a fantasy thing for you.
Yeah. If you are intrigued by the practicalities of it
and go, this is doable.
Yeah. I'm still, yeah. I'm still turned on. Okay.
Then I think you go to the next step
and go, Hey, do I have a willing partner in my life who'll
he'll try some of this with me?
Or is some of this stuff I can do on my own to see
how I feel about it by myself,
but to, you know, I kind of worry that this person is,
there's, I get a sense of like embarrassment
or shame that Mm-Hmm.
their kinks might be
influenced by what they read.
Yeah. But if you didn't know a kink even fucking existed
or a way of expressing the kink you had,
how would you have learned otherwise?
I mean, how many people have we come across in life
who are like, I'm definitely not kinky,
or, that is definitely a hard limit.
And they've defined that thing in
through a narrow lens of how they understand it.
Mm-Hmm. . And then they learn all the different
ways you can experience it
and they go, wait, maybe I'm into that thing.
It's like Yeah. 'cause your eyes got opened by
outside influence of learning more about the thing.
Right. Does that mean the kink didn't exist?
Or is it that I implanted it into your mind?
I, all we did was widen your horizons a little bit.
That's all. Yeah. And then you decided what you like Uhhuh,
- Uhhuh .
- So anyway,
anyway, that was the last one.
Mm-Hmm. . This was, um, very chaotic.
Yeah. Um, the, the dog and cats
and our attention to them did not help.
Mm-Hmm. We can do a bonus section.
- Okay. - And yeah.
- So, um, are we good? I
- Dunno.
I don't know. We're chaotic. Well, if nothing else that
- Goes well saying - Mm-Hmm.
.
- Keep it, keep it kinky, - Y'all. I'll see you next week.
Do Hey.
- Yes baby girl. - Can we talk to the crickets?
- Sure. Okay. , - Uh, what are we talking about?
- Life, the universe and everything.
- The answer's 42. Yeah. - Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.
- . Um, I felt really good that year.
I was 42 .
Um, uh, I feel less good now that I'm 44 .
- I don't remember. 42
- Stop.
That was only 20 years ago.
I mean, 20 years ago I was at least technically a legal
adult, so Ha ha.
.
Um, no. What's going on? What's going on? What's going on?
Chaos and stress. Stress and chaos. Mm-Hmm. .
Uh, that's about it. Um, Lola's a giant potato.
Yep. Uh, Onyx is a menace. Mm-Hmm. . Oh my God.
Okay. Anybody who has cats knows, you know what cats do
and I'm so sorry if you don't have cats
and find this repulsive,
but you know how they Throw up fur balls, right?
And they make that sound. That's I'm not right. Yeah.
And then you find messes
because our cats love
to hack up a fur ball in the middle of the night.
But sometimes when you are a person who has
six foot plus shelving in your office area
that holds inventory and supplies,
and you have a cat who likes to jump
to the highest point in any given room and does frequently.
Yeah. You too can have the experience of watching
your cat start hacking up a fur ball on the top shelf
that you are not even tall enough to see the top of
- - And chase her from the side
that had a whole bunch of cardboard boxes that would
absolutely be ruined by that.
Over to a more empty spot,
but still no less grotesque and hard to reach.
And we'll get the stepladder out for, and
- I will look up there today.
So,
- And she looked at me the whole time.
I'm going, no Onyx Onyx. No, no. I can't reach her.
I can't pull her down. She doesn't let you pick her up.
Anyway, if my hands had gone out, she'd have gone
to the furthest corner, which would be on top of other boxes
and behind stuff, which would be harder to find.
So I had to watch her
and act like this was a hostage negotiation
and I couldn't move too fast
and just go Onyx Onyx.
No, Onyx. Onyx. Onyx.
I don't know what I thought I was doing. Yeah.
I was kind of hoping that I could make her nervous enough
that she would just jump the fuck down.
Like, do I want a fur ball yacked up on my carpet? No.
But do I want to have to get up on top of something
to clean it up to clean it?
No.
- Yeah. - So
Yeah, that was Mm-Hmm.
that was my, uh, afternoon yesterday.
That was delightful. Yeah.
Um, um, yeah,
it's been kind of, it's been hectic.
It's been stressful, but it's all been work related. Yeah.
It's not been, I mean, not, we haven't done anything Mm-Hmm.
We saw the, uh, oldest over the weekend. Mm-Hmm.
. Um, he, he texted
and was like, Hey, can you come?
You know, can you come take me to the store?
'cause he is got his motorcycle, but he's only gonna fit
what he can carry in a backpack on that. Right. He can't
- Fit big - Things.
And he was like, I need to get some stuff in bulk.
And that's all he said.
And I should have asked the follow-up question of,
do you mean let's go to Sam's
or do you just need more than what can fit in your backpack?
We get there and I'm ready to go to Aldi.
And he's like, no, I needed to go to Sam's mom.
I'm like, let's go to Sam's.
Um, he bought four whole things that I cannot imagine
that life I have never Once, once we went into a Sam's Club
and didn't fill up at least half of a grocery card,
- We, we have gone once. One time we bought
- Cat food - And cat food was a dog food, one or the other.
It was, it was fur baby food. It
- Was something for - Yeah.
Something around the fur babies.
But that was the only time Mm-Hmm. .
- And I'm like, damn. And yet he still spent $70
- .
Yeah. Like, bought a case of energy drinks,
- Which is still cheaper than the
way he usually buys the I know.
One off at the gas station. So I know, I know.
He was, you know,
college kid math, he was saving money. Right.
- . Um, - So yeah, we, we ran
around town to a few stores.
Mm-Hmm. . And he knows that we are not in a,
I want to be, I want to be a parent
that can swoop into town, take my kid
to all the stores he wants to go to, swipe my card,
take him to lunch, have a good time.
We are not living that life right now. No.
And he knows that. So he is buying his groceries
and he goes, we're in Walmart.
And he goes, uh, I'm hungry. Can we do something about that?
And J b's looking at me
and I'm looking at him and I'm doing quick math.
I'm like, yeah, we, we can make that work.
We can, this is where we're going. We can make it work.
So we did. We got something to eat.
And then when we went to Aldi, we did not get
to do our normal weekend grocery shopping.
And we are creatures of habit.
Usually somewhere between Friday
and Sunday, we're going to Aldi to get our groceries.
We did not have time this weekend, so I was like, we need
to get a couple of things we can't live without
for another day.
I said, and we'll do grocery shopping
like on Monday or something.
So we're in there and we're like, well,
we're here at an Aldi's, it's not in our town,
but we're at an Aldi's, so I'm getting our stuff.
He got, like, again,
how is this college student surviving on anything
Air and potato chips?
I don't know. , he got like five, four things
and I went, I'm looking at his stuff
'cause I thought he was gonna get groceries.
Yeah. I'm looking at our stuff and I'm like, look at me.
I could be a big spender. Sure.
I'll, I'll buy your $10 or all the groceries.
Your mom can help you out. Right. Oh God. But yeah. Yeah.
He was so funny. He, um, we got to, we went to Culver's
for lunch and we're sitting in the parking lot about
to walk in and we're talking
and he actually said, we were get, I was ready to get out.
I was hungry at this point, .
And he goes, well, I don't, we don't have to rush.
We can sit here and talk. I'm like, no, no.
We can sit at a table in Culver's
where I can get refills on my drink and talk.
And he like, did not wanna rush this.
He did not want us to like, take him to the store,
drop him back off at his house and be done in an hour.
He wanted to just hang out with us.
The old parental figures.
I was like, I kind of, I kind of love this.
- I know that was a, that was a little bit
of a, uh, different feeling.
- So, - Or you know, that that could have been, uh, a,
a makeup for his, uh, the night we went
to see him for the concert.
- Yeah. When he was like really blunt.
Close to the point of rudeness. Yeah. Maybe.
But I don't think so. He is not going to,
he's not quite medicated enough
to engage too long in a conversation that bores the shit out
of him just to make somebody else feel better. .
- Yeah. Yeah. - Not quite that kid. So, yeah.
But no, it's been mostly just boring stuff.
Um, I discovered that
McDonald's iced coffee, if you can get the right amount
of cream in it, is not the worst thing I've ever had.
Hmm. Um, had an iced, got a freebie
through the McDonald's app.
'cause if you will reward me with points
that turn into free food, I will have your app.
Um, assuming you're a place I already am willing to go.
Mm-Hmm. . So I have a ridiculous number
of points from several months ago,
and I'm trying to use 'em up for the expire
because then that's just a waste.
Right. And, uh, I was like, let me try, I got a,
I can get a free iced coffee, let me try.
And I got a, a iced caramel coffee. Mm-Hmm.
with extra cream,
because if it looks like coffee,
it'll, it'll be too bitter for me.
I'm sorry. It was fucking delicious.
Like, it, it wasn't, you know, homemade cold brew. Was it?
You know, some of the better coffees I've had at like, some
of our local places that it's $10 per coffee.
No, but I mean, it was, it was better than
Starbucks iced coffee taste to me.
Hmm. But Starbucks iced coffee
and their espressos taste burnt to me these days.
So Yeah. I was like, okay.
- I, I had a taste a it, you know, a little,
little too much cream from my taste,
but it was, it was decent. Yeah.
- Look, if my coffee does not look like
the color of my thigh, it's too dark.
It's too dark. And for anybody who's like the color
of your thigh, I'm a white lady
who does not go out in the sun.
That's all, that's all you gotta know.
That's how you know how pale my coffee is. .
Hey, I have discovered
that I can put too much cream in a c in my coffee.
And if all I taste is cream, I'm, I will drink it.
But it's not as good as it could be.
I do have an upper limit on, uh,
too much cream.
I have found it. Okay. So I'm just saying
- I need to excuse myself.
- Okay. This, like, if we were, uh, what am I trying to say,
uh, professionals, we would've just ended the stream.
But I'll just sit here and keep talking about nothing.
I was already struggling to find stuff to talk about,
but I don't want to like stop talking either
because this is, you know, this is a form
of community for me.
And so once a week I get to like, sit here
and like feel like we're all hanging out.
And even if I have nothing to say, like
to still be hanging out.
But, but now, now my partner in crime has left the room
and I don't know how to do this by myself.
. Okay. Okay.
Uh, and channel wings
and live chat says I like Starbucks blonde espresso
that they put into shaken espressos.
I will say their blonde espresso is better to me
than all their other, um, espresso.
And I like Starbucks cold brew. Their cold brew is good.
Um, and I do like the Starbucks shaken espressos.
I, I don't use regular milk in my espressos
'cause lactose intolerance.
Um, I have discovered I love oat milk
as a milk replacement in lattes.
Like they're ju it's, it's good.
I don't wanna put oat milk on a cereal necessarily.
I don't want to drink a glass of it.
Um, but in a coffee drink as, especially as a latte.
Oh, hell yeah. Hell yeah. That's really good.
- But - Yeah, I have, um,
I have discovered that I really just prefer cold brew
and not just because we make it here at home.
I mean, that is a little bit of it,
but it's smoother when the way it's,
it's made and brewed and everything.
Um, dunking, I haven't been to Dunking in weeks,
but Dunking started a thing where, um,
you can get like their $3 medium cold brews.
And normally I get like an iced coffee,
medium, large, whatever.
But the moment they start that deal, if I was going
to dunking it was to get the cold brew
because that is, that just tastes better.
Better. And doesn't taste bitter to me.
Uh, as long as I put enough sweetener in, um,
cream in it, .
Um, so yeah,
but we have not been doing that,
but we haven't really been going anywhere either except
for like errands and if a kid needs us.
So it's not a, it's, it's not a big deal.
I've just been drinking a lot of coffee at home.
Um, JB asked me to top
of a top off his coffee before we started recording today.
And I was like, yeah, I'll top mine off too.
Well JB meant that he had drank, had still had over half
of his coffee from the morning and he just wanted topped up.
I had sucked mine dry
and even some, I even some
of the ice was starting to melt at that point.
Um, and I just got a whole ass new coffee. So, but sure.
I topped it up. , I topped it up.
That that totally counts. Totally counts.
I'm babbling about coffee
'cause I don't know, do you have anything?
Did you just leave and come back for us
to finally end the stream and put folks out of our misery?
Their misery, your misery?
If you're still here, you're like, clearly you wanna be
but and I need to just remind myself of that.
- . I mean, I, I haven't been doing
a whole lot lately.
It's mostly been work
- Related stuff.
We've been working, we've been
researching and we've been stressing.
That's what we do. That's
- What we do.
um, you know, I I did go to our, um, uh,
local munch Yeah.
Last night. Um,
- You had, you got, you don't have to go into details,
but you got to have a kink community
thing over the weekend again.
Yes. Which did lead to a very serious discussion, uh,
that we ended up having like Right.
24 hours later. Mm-Hmm.
- . - Um, yeah.
Which we still don't know what we're gonna do about it.
- No. But we know that something needs to be,
- So I thought you were gonna talk about
your what, your munch and stuff.
So let me just tell you. 'cause I think
other people could probably relate.
Mm-Hmm. , um, JB has, you know,
it was the second Saturday in a row of going off
and having a kink adventure,
of which I'm completely fucking supportive.
But something about the second one where he,
this past weekend when he went out
and did some stuff fucking hit me like a ton of bricks.
Yeah. Because I finally had a realization
that I should have been fucking having.
But I, you know, I'm slow on the uptake sometimes.
I was like, because it started out I was jealous of JB
and then I realized that, that I was directing that in the
wrong way because it was like, well, it must be nice to get
to go off and have adventures
and not have to worry about what is happening at home.
And if life is continuing
and is, are the dishes getting washed
and the animals getting fed and the kid getting fed?
And is life still happening?
And what I realized was not that I'm jealous of JB
for having that freedom, but I'm pissy
'cause I have not done anything
to give myself that freedom.
Yeah. I do not have my own
- Thing.
And what's funny is
that this past weekend while I was off having
that little adventure Mm-Hmm.
, I was thinking just that
- , which is why, one, you're a good human,
and two, you're a good partner because Mm-Hmm.
an oblivious fucking partner would've been
shocked and probably might've been empathetic, would've
- Been shocked when I said something.
I think what was kind of humorous when we were in the car
and you brought it up
before you even finished saying what you were thinking.
I was like, yeah, you need to be able to get away
and have your own adventures. Yeah.
- And see the problem we have is I don't want to go anywhere
- Or be around people.
- Be not be around people. I dunno.
I have like the, you want, if you want me
to have a stressful moment, send me out
and make me interact
with people I don't know in a situation in which
I am not comfortable.
Yay. Hell on earth . Mm-Hmm. .
So the, you know, it was a,
we had a serious conversation about it.
Yeah. You know, there wasn't a, there wasn't a blaming
or a finger pointing.
Um, it was an acknowledgement of,
and this is typical, uh, in especially mm-Hmm.
, long-term relationships,
especially when there's caregiving
involved children or adults, doesn't matter.
There's a default person who takes on Mm-Hmm.
most of the mental load, most
of the administrative tasks with kids, there tends
to be a default parent.
And I'm that person.
And , um, we're gonna talk about submissives
with control issues, I think in next week's episode,
spoiler .
And I recognize that some of that is my own control issues.
But what it means is I am the person who
does not think about what am I gonna do to relax?
What am I gonna do to unwind?
How do I take a break from this?
I don't think about that till I'm at a tipping point.
I'm at a breaking point. Mm-Hmm.
, I don't do that until the well is
so fucking dry, you know, that there's nothing left.
And that's, that's not good either.
Um, but also we now live a life where,
and I have become a kind of person who, you know, I
don't just walk into social spaces
and just like exist Mm-Hmm.
that is deeply uncomfortable. Yeah.
I like to do things on my own
or that, you know, my own hobbies that are just that Mm-Hmm.
that are so low endeavors.
You know, I can do them side by side with somebody,
but they do not require interaction.
Right. And that's what I tend to like to do.
But as any default parent will know,
if you try to do a thing in your house
and call it a break, you better know how
to hide from everybody in your house. The
- Default a damn better have a
damn good hiding spot. Right.
- 'cause the default parent or the default caregiver will be
the person everybody goes to with how do I do this?
Right. And where is this? And
that was the conversation I was having with jb.
It was like, my interests do not necessarily align
with leaving the house.
However, how do I get a break if I am in this house?
One, everybody's gonna come to me.
And two, is it a break if I come home
and all the things I still have to do are still sitting
- There? Are still sitting there. Yeah.
- So we had a very like mm-Hmm.
, mature, calm conversation. Right.
Um, we have no answers. Right.
, well, we at least had the conversation,
- But we, we've had the conversation
and you know, now we're open to continuing the conversation
and, and you know. Yeah.
- So, um, so yeah.
Uh, for anybody who can relate to that, uh,
if you're feeling jealous of your partners adventures, it's,
I think it's time for conversation about
how you're gonna go have your own adventures.
Mm-Hmm. . Um, and you know, it is, it's
for anybody who is like a socially anxious person
or somebody who does not like being around a lot of people
or struggles to make friends, I am that person as well.
You know, Jamie gets to have these adventures.
One 'cause he is willing. Right.
But because he's put the time
and the effort into making friends and having community.
And so over this time that he's done that they've gotten
to know him and people are inviting him to things.
And I was like, , I was,
it's like having two different versions
of myself on my shoulder.
One on each shoulder. 'cause one side was like, well,
if you get your ass out there
and actually make friends, you too could be invited
to things that you dread going to
'cause you hate social interaction.
Um, and on the other hand, I'm like,
but I, that's not my idea of relaxing now.
Going to like, this is so weird.
I've been to a play party and we had a good scene. Mm-Hmm.
. And yet I still struggled.
It was nobody's fault. It was all me.
And yet going to the dungeon, I struggle less.
That is so weird to me. Mm-Hmm. .
I would like, let me go to a dungeon.
I think it's 'cause it's, um, it's less personal. Right.
It's not somebody's house. It's not like close quarters.
You whatever the, the internet action is not seen
as like part of the thing.
So like there are things I'm like, I would like to do that,
but I'm not actually envious that he's going
to these parties necessarily
- .
- I don't wanna have to do the thing he did naturally
and with joy in his heart to get to that point.
. But also I'm enough of, of of, you know,
human beings to some extent are kind of social creatures.
And I'm like, yeah, I wanna be liked too.
But you have to like let people get to know you
and like you.
But that, I don't wanna do that part.
- .
- Well, you know, rah rah.
I, I see myself more of a ambivert.
- So for podcast listeners, uh, rah Rah said,
I appreciate you meaning me recognize
that it's not j b's fault.
That he's an extrovert and you aren't. Yeah, yeah.
- For sure. For sure. For sure.
I, I've always seen myself a little bit more
of an ambivert Mm-Hmm.
. And, and that's
because, you know, I, I love, you know, I do love going out
and being amongst people and, and going to, to workshops
and munches and, and you know, all different,
even social get togethers
where there is, there's kinky folks.
But there also comes a point where I want
to just come home and stay home and,
and recharge and Mm-Hmm. , you know,
- The other thing I was, um, I - Can go both ways. Yeah.
- , you can go always in a few ways
and that is one of the things, uh,
many of us like about you.
Yeah. Um, and if you're new here Yes.
Put all of the sexual
innuendo, you would talk into that .
Um, another thing that we kind of talked about
and we don't have an answer for Mm-Hmm.
is that the other struggle is
that when he comes home and recharges, he comes back home
to all of our normal stress, all of our extra stress.
We're carrying all of our anxieties,
all the things we're dealing with.
And so when he and I are interacting,
even when he's recharging,
we are interacting like we do
every single moment of the day.
Mm-Hmm. . And lately that's been very stress
filled and like a lot of, just so many worries.
Yeah. Um, and so
the other thing I was telling him is like, I miss when he
and IC were going to do things
and we could get away together.
Like Mm-Hmm. , I don't, you know,
because, uh, he has another partner.
The conversation does have to be,
I don't wanna take up all your time
and take away your time from getting that you get to spend
with your, your other partner,
but I would like some of that.
Mm-Hmm. for myself. Right.
And that is a, a source of envy as well
because when you're home, we're back to home stuff
and worry stuff and work stuff Yeah.
And all the stuff we got going on.
And the big problem is, is
that we're at a current point in our life.
- Lola agrees, - Right. As she often does.
We're at a point in our life where going off to
to have adventures and drive and, you know, go to a club
or go to dinner or go
and do things that are not free to do,
that's not an option for us right now.
Right. Yeah. So it's like, I want stuff that's just for me
so that I can get away, even if it's just mentally from all
of my responsibilities for a hot minute
and not walk back into all the responsibilities I left.
Like, can some of the things be done
for me while I'm not focused on them?
Mm-Hmm. . But also I want the luxury
and it is a fucking luxury of getting to go do fun stuff
with my partner who goes and
- Does fun stuff. Now. We, we didn't
- And - That's a struggle to Yeah.
Now we, we have talked there, there is, there,
there are numerous munches in, in so many MUEs in our area.
Um, I you, you could almost spend every day
of the week going to from one to the other. Yeah.
- Yeah. Yeah. - Yeah. Um,
and there is one, we talked about this.
Mm-Hmm. . There is one, uh, month,
which is actually relatively close to us.
Mm-Hmm. . And it is fairly small. Mm-Hmm.
. And we talked about that.
That may be something that we start doing together.
- You might have to gimme a gummy, but Yep. Yeah. Yep.
something to just, once I'm in a situation
and know that there's nothing to be terrified of.
Mm-Hmm. I tend to relax,
but man, getting to that point, I can be a struggle.
- Yeah. - So, yeah. It's there.
It's, there's been good conversation. Mm-Hmm.
, um, within our relationship there's been no
resolution, which I continue to be a person who
lacks patience and wants problems to be solved.
The moment I acknowledge that there's a problem,
but I have matured enough .
Mm-Hmm. to know that I just
have to be disappointed.
'cause that's not quite how it works.
Because sometimes there is no easy solution. Right.
Like, yeah. Sometimes I have found acknowledging the issue
and having a partner who sees it
and like says, yeah, this is real.
And I see that and I, I get where you're coming from
and I agree and I'm going through it too.
Mm-Hmm. sometimes just having
that conversation has to be enough for a while.
It is. It is. Helpful.
'cause then I don't feel alone, right?
I don't feel like I'm having to just keep things in my
head and not say something.
I've said it, we're on the same page about it.
That means if I bring it up again at some point,
it's not new information
and we can continue the conversation.
I feel less alone in it.
You know, there was a time, uh,
probably when I was in my twenties that I could
have a conversation with somebody about what was going on
and have that moment of relief
because, hey, we talked about the thing,
but then immediate, like crushing disappointment
that the thing couldn't be fixed.
And I guess I've just now had 44 years
of problems never being immediately fixed, .
And I've grown used to it.
And so I'm like, I don't have any solutions.
I don't have any options that I can, that
I can make work right now.
But it's, I'm not miserable
because we ended up having a really good conversation come
out of it, and we are on the same
page about that. Right. You know
- What I mean?
So, I mean, yeah. Nothing was, nothing was,
um, you know, um, resolved.
Resolved. But yeah, it was good to have the conversation
and, you know, knowing that it is as, as we progress
with it to find a resolution.
Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. .
And, you know, this is like a, uh,
episode in, within the episode. I
- Know.
I I don't have anything to talk about.
Oh, look, here's what I have . So Yeah.
For anybody who maybe can relate you, you're never alone.
Somebody can always relate. Yeah. But we are, yeah.
We're Mm-Hmm.
, I think we're both getting kind of worn down
by the grind of some of the things
that we can't, we just can't fix.
Right. Like we're, some things can't be fixed .
Mm-Hmm. or some things can be fixed,
but the fix is so slow.
It is maddening.
And that's kind of where we're at right now. Yeah.
Um, we keep having like setbacks, so it's like, oh,
two steps forward, one step back.
Oh, look at you. One step forward, five steps back. Mm-Hmm.
. And that grind will wear you down.
And it's easy for us at least, is so easy
to get into conflict
because we're our, we're lacking patients.
We're exhausted. Yeah. We're both frustrated
by the situations we find ourselves
in. Mm-Hmm. . Um,
- I, I think, but you know, we, uh, thankfully we both
acknowledge to the other Mm-Hmm.
, you know, where we are at. Mm-Hmm.
in with, with everything going on. Mm-Hmm.
. And, uh, we have been able
to be respectful of each other in
- That.
Yeah. It's not always easy. I mean, no,
- We, - We've kind of, we always try to be this way
with one another, but the higher the stress,
the easier it is to argue.
Mm-Hmm. . And we had kind of gone
through some cycles of just arguing, making up arguing.
Yeah. And I think now,
and I don't, it won't necessarily stay this way,
but for right now, we're very much in the, oh,
if we let ourselves get too stressed out
and frustrated, we will be at each other's throats.
Mm-Hmm. . So let's go the opposite direction
and just have even more open, honest communication.
Um, but
that's a good thing.
That's a mature thing. Mm-Hmm. .
I'm happy about it. I still hate
that fucking p word of patience.
- I know, I - Know. Because I would like all
of our problems solved yesterday. Thanks.
- Well, because some of these problems have been hanging
with us for years point, literal point.
- Yeah. - You know? Yeah. And, uh, so yeah.
And it, it, it drags on you. Mm-Hmm.
- . So, yeah. No,
no solutions from us, but Nope.
Just if it helps you
to have it acknowledged and I think it does help.
I think it is helpful if you have
a partner who will listen to you.
Mm-Hmm. . And, you know,
even if they can't relate completely,
'cause maybe they're in a different head space
or they just see things differently.
If they can disrespect that, this is how you see it,
um, you know.
Mm-Hmm. . I mean, I don't think
I, that can be helpful.
Yeah. So glad we ate lunch before we did this.
'cause I would be starving right now if we
- Same.
- I'm out of coffee. My throat hurts.
- I'm almost outta coffee.
So, but yeah.
You know, we are, um, we
are learning.
Mm-Hmm. and changing
and adjusting is necessary. And
- I know I keep telling myself that when we get
to the other side of this very long
descent into madness.
Yeah. Um, I hope that we
keep the skills that we've developed.
Yeah. Like it's, when things get good, it's real easy,
- Easy to, to - Just go, oh, we have less to worry about.
Mm-Hmm. . So a lot, lot of these things
that you've been doing to mitigate the
worry are unnecessary.
And I just hope that we remember the lessons
that we have learned through this tough time
and also, you know Mm-Hmm.
, the closeness, the skills,
the communication. Right. All that.
- Mm-Hmm. . - So,
- Yeah. Yep. Yep.
- Okay. - Okay.
- We should probably stop talking now.
We've been doing this for a very long time. Mm-Hmm.
It's almost two hours,
or it is two hours, depending on,
- Well, considering we started at, uh, noon, 1150.
Oh gosh. . Yeah.
We're one minute off from being two hours long.
- I would love to lie to a new person and go, no, no.
It's not always like this,
but , I'm not gonna
lie to you if you're new here. Yeah.
- Yeah. And that, and that's true. Katie.
Validation can mean more than the solutions.
Just, just, you know. Yeah. Validating someone's feelings
- Is, is big.
Think we, we all want to be seen and heard and understood.
Yeah. In whatever way that means. Mm-Hmm. .
And when you can genuinely have that,
especially since sometimes it is so difficult to have.
Yeah. It's meaningful. Mm-Hmm. .
I just am a very action-oriented human being.
And if I see the problem
and know the fix, I would like the fix to happen yesterday.
'cause why else come up with a fucking fix. Mm-Hmm.
. Also, I would like all problems
to have a solution.
I am very tired of having problems.
- with no clear solution. Yeah. .
Yeah. So, yeah.
- Anyway. - Okay. We're gonna go, we're gonna go.
Thanks for, uh, joining us and being here with us. It's, uh,
- If you are here at this - Point Right.
- For, uh, hanging in there. Yep. Uh, to the bitter end.
Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. .
Um, yeah. We'll be back next week.
- Yep. And, uh, some of you will see Friday night
- Yeah.
Game night on the Patreon if you're in the
$5 and higher tiers.
Yep. You can join us. Mm-Hmm, .
Okay. All right. We're
- Gonna go.
Bye. Bye.