- You are listening to the living BDSM podcast.
Kayla Lord's here with the one, the only, the,
are you ever caffeinated enough, John Brownstone?
No. Never. There's no such thing. The limit does not exist.
Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. No.
- Same. Keep trying, but No.
- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, you gotta try.
I got nothing to say that. Okay.
That's, that's not what we're here for.
, uh,
this week we're answering a question from a submissive.
Nope. This week, what are we answering?
We're answering a question from a submissive.
I almost said the wrong thing. That's why I went. Nope.
, uh, who is in a bit
of a complex poly situation Mm.
Okay. And is, is sort of all outta sorts
because I don't think, uh, they can,
they can make ev all the partners happy.
Mm-Hmm. and it's, it's, it's complicated.
Yeah. Uh, .
So that, that's what
we're, that's what we're talking about this week.
Welcome to the Loving BDSM podcast.
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Okay. Let's get into the question.
The question is a long one, so brace yourself.
- Okay. - I have a question on how to handle loyalty
conflicts in complex situations.
I live in Europe. I'm married to a poly guy,
and I'm his only relationship Right now.
We live together. We have a young child together,
and I'm emotionally and practically bound to my husband.
We are good friends, love going on road trips,
know each other well, and work on our intimate relationship,
which has not always been easy, but which is improving.
I'm also in a second relationship, a soulmate deep love,
romantic erotic BDSM relationship with a guy from the US
who I have visited, who I love deeply,
and who I would have married
and had a monogamous relationship with,
had I met him in a different situation.
Not being a mom in a different country,
while my husband is more a freedom seeker with a happy
and easygoing poly identity, neither Dom nor sadist,
but into ChAARI, which we love doing together.
My soulmate is a calm structured dom
and sadist who understands me blindly in my desire
to be submissive and my excitement for spanking.
My husband hates restrictions and labels.
My soulmate dislikes the idea of an open BDSM relationship
as he wants the power exchange part to be exclusive to us.
Both guys and myself are doing our best to make things work,
doing my best to be as honest and open with my partners,
but I often feel like I'm in the middle navigating others'
feelings and preferences.
I'm trying to keep privacy,
not revealing intimate details about the other partner,
while also trying not to keep secrets that might blow up
and hurt feelings if revealed later.
Mm-Hmm. I would like to develop a more 24 7 Ds relationship
with my love abroad,
but it feels hard to talk about it with my husband
who is into poly relationships,
but does not want his freedom restricted, trying new things
with me while the soulmate feels uncomfortable
with a shared power exchange.
Mm-Hmm. . I've explained to my husband
that I don't think he's missing out on something,
letting the other have their own practices such
as punishing me or spanking me
as it does not seem to turn him on.
Anyway, we tried and he did not feel much like it. Mm-Hmm.
But of course, I cannot tell him not to change as a person
or wanting to try new things at some point.
And the fun and aesthetic ChAARI rope is something we do,
in which the other guy also knows about NX accepts.
It's also tricky that developing a more elaborate 24 7 DS
relationship with my US soulmate gets
emotionally intense for me.
I love it. I want it,
and I feel devoted to him as a submissive.
I want to give all to him from my heart.
But doing a 24 7 power exchange at a distance is something
that gets into a practical
and loyalty time space conflict with my responsibilities
as a parent and the easygoing
and fun spontaneity with my husband.
The three of us are in a place where we might be able
to talk on Zoom together soon.
I've asked for such a meeting several times,
and it seems more possible
after a year of trying to invite them.
Also, knowing it will be a challenge
for my BDSM soulmate from the US
who is not really a poly type,
but who is also doing his best
to let me take my life as a parent and wife.
Seriously, I'm convinced both guys would want
to meet my wish to meet on Zoom, all three
of us to make me happy.
But I still feel like my heart is torn between loyalties,
practicalities, and the reality of not being able
to cross the Atlantic ocean with ease.
I guess I'm someone who wants to be as transparent
as possible, but it's difficult for me
to tell my husband about the BDSM part of my us relationship
because of his freedom seeking and
because of privacy issues.
Also, I do not want to push my soulmates
to meet my husband on Zoom,
as I know my soulmate is not super happy
with the poly part of the relationship.
While still he and I are very happy with each other,
and both simply romantic, affectionate, love,
intellectual understanding, Lola agrees
and erotic compatibility.
My main problem is
that I constantly feel like I'm letting someone down.
And while I am really trying my hardest
to slowly build both relationships without pushing,
what else could I do other than having a lot of patience
to talk things through, not pushing boundaries,
building a foundation for a dialogue and trust slowly
and eventually figuring things out.
Let's start there. That, that, that last bit,
that is ultimately the answer.
Yeah. But also I think we both have thoughts. So,
- , - Uh, go ahead. What were
- Your initial thoughts?
Um, wow. Uh, there, there is a lot going on there. It is
- A complex situation.
They did not, they were not inaccurate there. No.
- No. Um, wow. I, I'm not sure. I mean, whew.
I, I, I think, you know, keeping the lines
of communication open one for sure.
You know, and,
and I think there's also a lot of, um, you know,
when you get into something like this with, with Polly
and you've got different people, different expectations,
there's a lot going on.
- I know. And I, and I don't,
we only have one perspective Mm-Hmm.
from the person who asked.
But this perspective, the, one
of the first things I'm thinking is this person is trying
to manage everybody else's feelings.
Yes. And while you want to be mindful of what every,
all your partners feel Sure.
And how they feel about the situation they're in,
it is not your job to take care
of their feelings to all the time.
No. They are grown ass adults.
And as long as you are doing
what everybody feels is like the right ethical thing
for the relationship, being open, talking about things,
you know, understanding that your partners have boundaries.
Right. But see, the thing is, is boundaries are not,
you can't do this thing.
Boundaries are, I will not accept this thing.
So if you do the thing, there's a consequence, not a,
you're not allowed to do this thing.
It's, here's what I'm going to do.
If that, if that's what you're gonna do,
that's what a boundary is.
And I don't hear anything where
the two men are saying anything like that.
What they're saying is, I don't like,
this is what it sounds like to me.
I don't like this thing.
Okay, well, you don't like this thing,
but this thing is the reality.
- Right. And so - What are you gonna do
- About it?
And, and I, I think that's kind of
what caught me a little bit with, um,
I think it was the soulmate. Mm-Hmm. ,
- The US soulmate, - The US soulmate partner.
Um, you know, it, it, it's, it's great to,
to want that, to have that.
And, and it's especially, you know, refreshing
that you found somebody that you mesh so well with in this.
But what kind of, not necessarily a flag,
but kind of, you know, the fact that, you know, I I'm not,
I'm not happy with that, with the poly,
- Right.
You, you chose a partner who has
a, I'm speaking to the dom now.
Mm-Hmm. , the dom chose a partner
who is married and has a child and lives another continent.
Lola totally agrees. Right.
And yet is unhappy with the fact that it's poly.
Well, that seems like a, a, your dom's problem,
not it's your problem
because your heart will be broken depending on what happens.
But this per,
unless you lied, which you, I don't think you did at all.
Mm-Hmm. They made this choice,
and now they get to be upset that they made the choice.
Well, then there's an, there's two choices. Yeah.
They, the relationship has to end,
which I, I don't want that for you.
'cause I can tell it will clearly break your heart. Right.
Or they, they're gonna need
to get comfortable with some stuff.
- Right. I, I think what, you know, there's, um, I I,
I've been saying this a lot lately,
but I, I think it, it stands true.
There's, um, a little bit of expectation management.
- Well, I think trying to have a transcontinental 24 7 long
distance DS relationship already has an expectation problem.
Yeah. Before you add in a husband, a child,
and whatever your employment might happen to be.
Yeah. Like, there's already some expectation issues going
- On.
Yeah. Long, long distance is, is tough in and of itself.
Mm-Hmm. , you know, just between two people.
Mm-Hmm. . And,
and then you throw in a long distance with, I mean,
- Do I think there are long distance couples
that can probably eek out something that feels
to them like 24 7 mm-Hmm.
, yes. I'm not gonna say that's impossible,
but the more responsibilities even one of the partner has
outside of that relationship, you add a layer of complexity.
Okay? Mm-Hmm. , you're right.
You are completely right in asking your question.
This is complex. Yeah. This is tough.
But I, I think it goes back to, uh, expectation management,
wanting the full throated.
This person owns me, owns every action I take.
They determine all kinds of things I do. Mm-Hmm.
is not practical in most situations.
Right. What I mean, just the long distance part,
because you're in different time zones
and you have different commitments
and different responsibilities, but then you add another
relationship, you're managing Mm-Hmm.
raising a child, whatever your familial
and professional obligations are in your home country.
Exactly. You know?
Do I think that maybe there's a way to at times have
that moment or in very specific
regimented planned out parameters?
Yeah, I think so.
But if you're ever gonna get there to what you're describing
that you want minimum, all the partners have
to be willing to talk to one another.
Sure. Because if one partner is
claiming control over your life
and your actions, your live in partner that you're married
to, will abso fucking be impacted by that?
Yes. No doubt about it. You can't hide that from them.
You can't no. Minimize the impact to them.
They will be impacted.
- So you, you can have something that
may be close to 24 7,
or what works for you is what you know, can, can
- Be. And you call 24 7. Right?
- Yeah. But you know, the, the fact of the matter is, and,
and this is something that I've had to contend with as,
as being Polly, you know, Kayla and I are married.
She is also my submissive. She is my baby girl.
Now, you, we throw into the mix the fact that
we work together,
- We raise a child together,
- We, we raise a family together.
- The oldest no longer needing to be raised
- .
Yeah. But, you know, even, even with him, we have
- Certain we're parents together
to two kids. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.
- Okay. So, you know, in bringing in a poly as,
you know, someone in, into a poly aspect in
that it can be tough.
- It's automatically gonna be tough because,
and you know, I always, I'm, I'm we say I'm poly in theory,
, , um, you, you have tried and,
and sometimes you find ways that work,
whether it's a long distance thing
or it's a play partner thing.
Yeah. And sometimes you have a partner who,
and I don't blame them, this is not a knock to them.
Mm-Hmm. , it's, it's
honoring their own boundaries.
They don't want to have to be deprioritized. Right.
I'm not the main priority because I'm special.
I tend to be the main priority
because we share every facet of our lives together outside
of whatever his other relationship
with this person might be.
Yeah. So there are times he has to choose.
He's not choosing me specifically as his baby girl.
He is choosing the life we have together,
the parenting responsibilities,
the professional responsibilities, right.
Over whatever he might per want to
- Do.
And then home ownership and,
and all the things that go with financial.
Right. You know, that all the things that go with that.
- And not everybody can handle that.
And you know what, that's okay if somebody
doesn't want to or can't.
Mm-Hmm. or is like, no, I, this isn't the kind
of thing I want to sign up for.
Mm-Hmm. . But those people need
to be honest with themselves.
Right. And I think you have to be honest with yourself.
Your dom wants to be the center of your world.
And it sounds like you would like them to be the center
of your world, but as long as you stay married
and in a relationship with your other partner,
it's pr it's it in theory.
It's nice. You might over time get to a point where you,
you have those moments and you go, this is
how I define that.
But based on the idealized version
that it feels like I'm reading here about what y'all, the
You and your dom want.
I don't think you get there without the absolute buy-in
of your other partner, even if your other partner
is not a part of that.
The other thing, I'm, I'm going back to your soulmate here.
Okay. Because your soulmate chose
to enter this power exchange
with you knowing you were married and had other commitments.
Mm-Hmm. . And yet
doesn't wanna engage with the other partner.
And on some levels, I think that's, that's valid.
I mean, I don't engage with j b's partners. Mm-Hmm.
, I have no interest 'cause I'm
not involved with any of that.
And he keeps me up to date on what I need to know.
And out after that, I'm, I'm out of it.
However, because your partner has these very clear
likes, dislikes, and preferences about how involved
your existing partner, you know what they should know what,
what your dom has control over.
Mm-Hmm. , I don't think that's realistic,
because let me go back to
what I was saying earlier. Lola agrees,
- , - Your dom wants
to dictate part of your relationship.
Mm-Hmm. the part that you have with your dom.
But that dictation affects
your marriage and your poly partner.
Yeah. So therefore,
because their expectations affect your other partner,
everybody's gotta be involved to, to a minimal degree.
Mm-Hmm. , I do not mean that your husband
and your dom have to be BFFs.
That's now what I mean. Right.
But your, your husband needs to be aware of
what kind of demands are gonna be placed upon you
as a submissive to this dom
and how it affects the rest of your life.
Parenting, marriage, other responsibilities so
that they're not, you know, they're not surprised by it.
And they can kind of go, okay, I'm comfortable with that.
They might not be comfortable with that.
And then you have a decision to make.
Either you pull back from all the things you want,
the idealized version of this,
this long distance relationship.
You make the tough decision about who you want to be with.
Yeah. Or, you know, maybe some other decisions. Mm-Hmm.
, I can't imagine right now. Well,
but I just don't see how this is possible without these two,
at least communicating a little bit.
- Right. There, there has to be
a little bit of communication.
And I think what what needs to be done also is need
to sit down with primary partner and talk about boundaries
- And actual boundaries act.
Yeah. Like, they don't get to dic.
You can't dictate what they do.
They can't dictate what you do,
but they can say, here's what I'm not gonna do.
Here's what I'm not comfortable with. Right.
Here's what if you, if this is what you need to do,
here's what I'm
gonna have to do. Mm-Hmm. , that's a
- Boundary.
Right. So you, you need to find out what, you know, sit
and talk about this with primary partner.
Then you need to go
and do the same thing with soulmate partner.
Mm-Hmm. . Okay. What are they expecting?
What do they want to see set as boundaries?
Then you need to look at yourself
and see what boundaries you have.
Then comes the fun part, sitting down and negotiating
and compromising all this.
- Right? Like, I mean, I, I,
here's the thing I keep coming back to.
Mm-Hmm. . And it's not clear in this question
if the concern is based on things that have happened
or worries of what might happen.
Here's what I'm talking about. Polly husband is into ChAARI
has tried the dom something knows,
knows he's not a dom knows he is not a sadist.
Mm-Hmm. tried it didn't work for him,
but likes likes to be free.
He likes to be open. Okay. I respect that.
But, but what you're talking about in your question is being
worried that the things your soulmate dom wants will somehow
restrict your husband.
Okay. So first of all, we've already narrowed down though,
that your husband currently doesn't wanna do
what soulmate dom is doing with you.
Mm-Hmm. . So I feel like you might be borrowing
some trouble unless there have been real examples
that you just didn't include here.
You're borrowing trouble.
You're, you're worrying about a thing that hasn't happened
yet, or your husband is worrying about a thing
that hasn't happened yet because he's
so concerned about restriction
that even though you're doing something
with soulmate partner that he knows he doesn't want to do.
Yeah. He might change his mind later.
Most people don't change their mind that deeply. Mm-Hmm.
. So there's a, there's also the need
to talk about reality.
Husband wants to do ChAARI
and doesn't want a dom or be a sadist.
Okay. Dom
and sadist, I mean, you're long distance kind
of can't do ChAARI with you.
Mm-Hmm. is filling a gap
that Polly husband currently has no interest in.
Correct. So the conversation is not, you know,
how do I let my poly husband be as free as he wants to,
even though it's like killing me?
The conversation is,
let's be clear about everybody in this situation needs
to be very clear on their roles.
Mm-Hmm. , who is doing what for whom?
Who is, you know, who's squid out by something?
Let's talk about it. And then what will be the plan
if freedom seeking husband, who's the one you live
with, is the one you're raising a kid with, is the one
that's physically there goes, I would like to try a thing.
What you do is you don't decide now, oh my God,
that'll never happen.
I I try to manage these men's emotions for them.
They need to be the adults managing their emotions.
You put a plan in place for how you will navigate it so
that you don't have to worry about a
thing that hadn't happened yet.
You know what you'll do if it does happen? Mm-Hmm.
. Right. You'll, you know that.
It'll be like, oh, you wanna try this thing? Okay.
You know, I I one you decide if
you two would like to try it.
Mm-Hmm. two, you have a conversation
with soulmate dom.
But here's the thing. I think soulmate dom needs
to get his expectations straight.
Yeah. Because you, to me,
you can't come into an existing relationship
that has its own history.
Mm-Hmm. that has its own stuff going on
that is in person and you live with this person
and then dictate the terms
of your relationship with your husband.
Right. He can dictate the terms of the relationship
with you, and then y'all decide if you're still compatible.
Mm-Hmm. , y'all decide if you
can actually make this work.
But I don't think soulmate Dom gets to say
what Polly husband gets to do.
Yeah. He came, he's the, he's the new one.
He came in accepting the fact that you were married.
And so he's gotta get right
with accepting the fact that you're married.
And right now it sounds like you're being pulled
between two people who want what they want.
And I'm not so convinced that they really care much about
what you want here in the middle.
'cause who's helping you navigate this?
Who's helping you, you know, go, Hey, here's, here's
where all compromise.
So you can have a little bit more of what you want. Mm-Hmm.
. But here's how I need you to compromise
so I can get a little bit more of what I want.
Right. Relationships are not a, here's our bullet point list
of everything we want and they match up perfectly
and we're always fully compatible.
Relationships are, here are the things I want. Mm-Hmm.
. Here are the things you want.
Where do we match and align and what can we compromise on?
And it good relationships, monogamous
or not require compromise.
Yes. Poly relationships require even more compromise.
- Yes. - Absolutely.
So I hadn't heard yet how, how the, the poly husband
and the soulmate dom have compromised yet.
Hadn't heard it yet. 'cause what I hear Mm-Hmm.
is you are twisting yourself in knots trying
to make sure they each get exactly what they want.
- Right. And that, and that is a recipe for disaster.
Um, because what's gonna happen is you're gonna break.
Right. Okay. You're
- The one caught - In the middle.
You're, you're the one who's in the middle of this
and, and you're gonna break.
And that's why I say you need to know what,
what your expectations are, what your needs and wants are.
Talk with primary talk with soulmate, and,
and then, then the real work begins.
- Yeah. And I mean, I, I feel
like a pessimist when I say this.
I just based on the outlines of
what these two other people want.
- Mm-Hmm. . - 'cause I
know I get what you want.
I get what you want with soulmate Dom.
You, I think, I feel like you've made that very, very clear.
This is almost a, could have been a one that got away kind
of situation in a rom-com,
but you also recognize your responsibilities
and what you want over here.
Mm-Hmm. . And, uh, the, my pessimistic side
says, I don't know if this is,
if the two are compatible, right.
Because Polly husband, who wants all the freedom
and a soulmate dom who wants, who's not,
um, non monogamous.
They are monogamous
and they don't want, you know,
anybody interfering in their power exchange.
Well, nature of life, not even like purposely trying to,
to get in the middle, just the nature
of your life means that Mm-Hmm.
it will never be fully closed.
'cause you have other responsibilities.
And so my pessimistic side says, I don't know how this works
unless these two other people meet you in the middle.
Right. And start doing the hard work themselves. Absolutely.
And talk, and I think, and I, I, let me go back
'cause I know somebody who is non monogamous is gonna be
pissy when I say this in every situation.
Partners don't always have to talk,
get along, know what's going on.
That's true. You can keep 'em,
I don't talk to j b's partners.
I don't have any interest. Not because I don't like them,
but because that's separate from me.
I'm not trying to be in the middle of that. Okay.
Uh, I just wanna know they exist. You know what I mean?
Mm-Hmm. . But in this case,
this is a prime example
where those two gotta unbend a little bit
and at least have a conversation.
Yeah. At, at minimum they don't have to be friends,
- They just No, they no, they don't.
You're absolutely right. Um, and,
and you know, there are people who desire, you know
what they call kitchen table polly.
Right. So do where, where, where everybody sits
around the table and you know, per se,
everybody's friends with everybody.
Right. And, and that's fine.
And, and that is absolutely fine.
- That would be ideal for this situation. Yeah.
But you might not, that might not
- Be where you get, you, you, you might not get there.
But not everybody wants that.
They're, you know, I know a number of people
who see this person,
but the other person doesn't know that person.
And, and that is entirely fine.
You, you know, poly like, kink,
like anything else, it's a spectrum.
You do what works for you, but this
- Is just too complex.
Yeah. They have to at least have a couple of conversations.
Mm-Hmm. you at least the hashing out
of details of how is this gonna work?
- You, you cannot be the only you, you know, , I'm,
I'm, I'm gonna use the term, you know, it's like the, uh,
the old thing that you say monkey in the middle.
Yes. Okay. You're being pulled know in two different
directions and you're being pulled in multiple directions
and, and, and everybody needs to get on board with, uh,
their expectations, expectation management, you know,
compromise, compromise and, and,
- And, and be realistic about what's actually possible.
Right. I'm not, I'm not not trying to be ranty or angry,
but I'm getting angry on your behalf.
Mm-Hmm. . Because the way this is outlined
here, you are doing a lot.
You're not just managing the actions,
you're managing other people's emotions,
and that should not be your job.
Right. Okay. Your soulmate Dom developed this relationship
with you knowing you were married.
Yeah. So he, he made a choice. Mm-Hmm. .
Well, now he needs to like, live that choice. Yeah.
Pauly husband, I don't, I mean, I, I get the,
I don't want my freedom restricted,
but good lord, once you're in a relationship
or you have a child or you have a job, your freedom is
- Restricted.
That's just life. There's, there's a certain, I mean, yeah.
You know, but
- I feel like that, that fear is you're borrowing troubles
that don't exist yet.
Mm-Hmm. , you've already had the time
to figure out that, that the husband doesn't wanna do
for the, the most part what soulmate dom wants to do,
they really are two separate entities.
Mm-Hmm. . And again, I
go back to what we said earlier.
Make a plan now for what,
how you will manage if husband wants to try something
that comes under soulmate dom's like
realm of things you do together.
Yeah. So that husband knows he can
have that freedom of choice.
And there's a plan in place
and you're not panicking about the what ifs you go, if,
if it happens, here's the plan we'll follow.
And the the one exception in my mind that I tend to make to
that, that very clear thing of,
and again, we don't live it
'cause I don't talk to your partners.
Mm-Hmm. , I'm not involved
with your partners in any way.
But the one time I'm like, no, no, no, you have
to give up this idea that you never have
to speak to your partner's.
Partners. Right. Is when there's power exchange involved.
And like if JB was the sub
to a dom, and so the dom was gonna make decisions
that absolutely fucking impacted my life.
Mm-Hmm. , because JB iss gonna do things in
this house all around me.
Then I have to have a conversation with that Dom to go,
okay, I got questions.
How do you, how are we gonna handle this?
How are we gonna handle that? Those are the times I think
that regardless of your, your desires for
how involved you are with your partner's.
Partners, you know, you wanna be hands off.
I, I respect it,
but once one person's submission is going
to impact an existing partner minimum, there has
to be a couple of conversations
to hash out what this looks like.
Yeah. And how we're gonna handle things.
And I just don't think that the, the, the central partner
that is the only connecting point should have
to work this fucking hard on their own.
Mm-Hmm. . And quite frankly my power exchange
side says, what is your dom doing to support you in this?
Because I didn't get much from that either.
Minimum, they should.
The dom especially should be supporting you through this.
'cause you're trying to craft this power exchange
that you both desperately want
and you are the one with the stress and the worry
and the concern and doing all a whole hell of a lot
of hard work on it.
Where's your dom supporting you in this? Mm-Hmm.
. But ultimately your very last sentence of,
other than being patient
and just trying to work through things,
that is ultimately the answer.
I'll reread that very last part.
That is ultimately the answer. Ke keep scrolling.
, it was a long question.
- All right. Am I there yet?
- Yeah. What else could I do other than having a lot
of patience to talk things through, not pushing boundaries,
building a foundation for a dialogue and trust slowly
and eventually figuring things out.
Ultimately that is the answer. Yeah. You know the answer.
Mm-Hmm. . But I think
that your partners are gonna have
to compromise more than you're describing right now.
Right. And that's gonna mean having one
or two conversations to just sort of set things in motion,
coming up with plans that they can both agree on
and compromising their in the places that they can't
and in the places that they
can't. You then hard to decision.
- You are asking good questions,
you are asking the right questions.
You need, they need to be,
those questions need to be pointed. Right.
- And you shouldn't be the only one
struggling to make this work.
Right. That ultimately is it Yeah, it is complicated.
Uhhuh. for sure. Yeah.
- Mm-Hmm. can be. Thanks
- For listening to this week's q and a episode.
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