- You are listening to the loving BDSM podcast.
Gaylord's here with the one, the only, the,
are you at all caffeinated enough Jumper?
No. Me neither. No. There's not enough coffee. No, no, no.
But we're gonna power through anyway.
- That's right. We are. Mm-Hmm.
- . This week we're answering a question from a
submissive who wants rewards as part of the dynamic,
but isn't happy with
how it's been done in their power exchange currently.
Welcome to the Living BDSM podcast.
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Okay, let's get into this question. Okay, here we go.
I'm in a 24 7 DSS poly ish relationship.
My dom is a primal gentleman and I'm a service sub.
My dom has only rewarded me two times in the past three
years, and its breeding resentment in me.
One reward was something I needed for work.
I farm and I needed raised beds.
I waited six months for permission
after modifying them a bajillion times
to suit his anxieties and desires.
I was about to finally make my purchase.
He stopped me, bought the materials,
and built part of it with me.
It's still not fully assembled,
and I can still only use three quarters of it.
The other thing, I didn't even want cheap t-shirts
and the kind of hats I specifically told
him I didn't want to wear.
I felt like he gave me the gift he should have given
his young adult daughter.
I didn't say that, of course,
I didn't wanna sound ungrateful.
I buy him gifts and necessities all the time, like
to the point where I had to pull back
because he will always say yes to what he wants.
I pay bills in the house, all but the mortgage.
I work from home. He works out of the house.
We earn equal income when due
or even do submissives get
to choose their own rewards are rewards part of negotiation.
What do you think about additional acts of service
as a reward That sounds used to read to me.
Hmm. Good job. Now. Do more work.
Thank you for all your vulnerability and effort and time.
I actually need your podcast to stay sane. .
So what, what are your initial
- Thoughts?
Um, a lot going on there. Mm-Hmm. .
So first, right, right out of the gate.
Uh, every it, it sounds a little one-sided. Yes.
- Okay. - Absolutely. Um, also,
should rewards be part of the negotiation?
Abso-Freaking-lutely. Mm-Hmm.
, uh, rewards just
as punishment. Okay. That's all
- Right. Two sides of the same
- Coin.
Two, two sides of the same coin, uh, are all part
of the negotiation.
- Right. Because a reward is only a reward if it's something
that you are genuinely happy to receive, you want Mm-Hmm.
it feels right to you.
And your partner might not know what
that is if you haven't had the conversation about them.
Right. Which in terms of power exchange Yeah.
That's gonna be a negotiation is
what we would call that. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah.
- I mean, I'm kind of speaking off the cuff here.
I don't really know either person.
Uh, it sounds to me a little bit like this, this dom
doesn't that really have a clue?
- It does.
Okay. I'm not gonna lie.
It sounds like vanilla relationships I've had where
hetero cis relationships
where the woman is buying all the gifts
and being really thoughtful.
Yeah. And the guy's just clueless. Mm-Hmm. .
Um, and yes, that can occur even in power exchange. Sure.
'cause that's skills that need to be learned. Right. And
- Yeah.
So, yeah. You know, I mean, when we've done stuff like this,
I've always come to you and like, you know, alright,
what would you like for a reward?
- Right. What's gonna feel like a reward?
- And, and you have given me a list and,
and out of that list, you know, I then Right.
Because pick and choose that
- Way, you know, that I'm guaranteed
to like, whatever it is.
Mm-Hmm. . But you still get the control
and power of being the one to decide
what it is when I get it. Yeah. You know,
- I, you know, to a certain extent too, I think maybe I'm,
I'm a little bit more self-aware, not saying
that other people aren't, but, you know, I kind
of keep an eye out and,
and see the things that you ooh and awe over. Mm-Hmm.
- , you're really good at that. Yeah.
- You know, like, okay. Mental note,
you know, that would make a gift.
- I know people in
and out of kink relationships who have created a habit
for themselves of when they hear their partner or a friend
or anybody they might give a gift to at some point.
Mm-Hmm. say, Hey, I like
that they just literally open, get their phone
and open their notes app
and make a note so that they can refer back to it later.
Right. But that's for the person who didn't ask the
- Question.
- Yeah. The person who's struggling Yeah.
Is the one who's not getting great gifts. Yeah.
- Now, I I, or rewards, I should, I will say on
that aspect too, not everybody is a, a good gift giver.
- Oh, no. It's a skill that has to be
- Cultivated.
Yeah. Um, you know, there are the, uh, Claires of the world
- From modern family.
If you didn't know the reference
Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. .
- So, um, you know, and,
and it could just be possible, you know,
this submissives they talk about, you know,
giving gifts and different things like that.
It could very well be possible.
Their love language is to give gifts. Is to give
- Gifts and then maybe to receive a, you know, a reward
as a version of a gift.
Mm-Hmm. from a power exchange Yeah.
Perspective. It's part of what we've absolutely talked about
as, um, positive reinforcement.
Sure. You know, you did a thing
that made me happy, you did a thing.
So rewards are often part of positive reinforcement.
Um, which is something we've talked about. Mm-Hmm.
in the past. It's something that we use
within our relationship.
It goes beyond the, well, you're a service submissive
or you're any kind of submissive.
You did what you were supposed to do.
So what do you want a cookie for? That it's like, Mm-Hmm.
. Well, yeah, maybe I do want a cookie.
I want acknowledgement. I want
to know that you're happy with me.
And in this person's case, they want rewards for stuff.
Clearly not all the time.
Not in a no way that renders it meaningless
to have tolerated.
I'm, I hesitate to call these rewards,
but to air quote rewards in three years,
I'd be, I'd be pissy.
I'd be so pissy if that was me.
And not because I do things for the reward,
but it's the acknowledgement and it's the effort. Well,
- It's, it's the acknowledgement, it's the effort.
And it also goes back to something we,
we've talked about a lot of times in the past,
filling that. Well,
- Yes.
Yeah. If I'm giving and giving,
and I feel like I can really speak to this
as a service submissive too, if I'm constantly giving
and I don't feel like it's being returned
in some way Mm-Hmm.
on a consistent enough basis that I go, yeah,
this makes it worth all this hard work or effort
or, you know, extra time or whatever,
or being tired or whatever it might be.
Or the stretching of my own like comfort level
to do new things in service of my partner.
Yeah. I mean, if you're not feeling a little
resentful, you're better than me.
Because after all that time, I'd be like,
where's my diet Coke ?
For me, that's a reward. Right. Right.
Where is my diet Coke? Mm-Hmm. I didn't ask for Mm-Hmm.
Um, so to answer the specific questions, yes, you can
as a submissive choose your own reward.
Sure. The way you do that will be determined by
how you've structured your power exchange,
how you communicate with your partner,
and then this very second question of how you negotiate it.
Like JB said, the way we tend
to do it is he will have a list of things
that he knows I like or have said I've wanted,
or have, you know, kind of he's caught me checking
him out maybe in a store. Simple
- Observation. Yeah.
- Right. And then he's gonna pick from the list of
what he knows I like is quite frankly, almost identical
to the way we seen you have the laundry list
of all the things I am willing to do and like to do in kink.
And it's like a, there's like a fence around everything.
Everything outside of the fence is a hard limit.
Don't do it. And then you pick
and choose from within that uhhuh that,
uh, what is a word I want?
Quare, thank you. Whatever.
Like, just within all of the options.
So it's not, you know, for the person who's like, well,
if the submissive says these are the rewards I want,
then they've taken the control
away from the dominant know the fuck.
They haven't, they've made sure that their wishes, wants,
needs, likes are heard and seen and like here.
Mm-Hmm. , here's so you can't fuck this up.
I'm gonna be happy with any of this.
And then all the power and control is still
with the dominant Yeah.
Um, the the thing, uh, the,
the last question, lemme do the last question real quick.
Okay. Before I go into my little,
my little annoyance, mini rant.
What do you think about additional acts
of service as a reward? Uhuh. Mm-Hmm.
- Uhuh. - Look, if you are a person
who does not do a lot of service as your submission,
like you're not really a service sub
or there are certain things that you
and your partner have talked about in an erotic way,
in a kink way, in a, ooh,
this excites us both mutually way that from the
outside looking in would look like service,
but you're both into it.
And maybe it's gonna be a super hot kink scene. Yeah.
If that, if that does it for you, then service as a reward
because the outcome of that service is something
that you find pleasurable,
or the act of that service is outside of your norm
and something you find pleasurable.
Yeah, sure. But , I'd be cranky if I got more work
as a quote reward. Yeah.
- I mean, at that point then you're just adding on the
proverbial straws that broke the camel's back. Right.
- But all of these questions aside, like our thoughts on
that, we're basically to the person
who asks this question, we're on your side.
The first thing I have to ask, and it does tend to get lost,
and it's not specifically explained here.
So I have to ask the question,
have you talked to your partner?
Right. That's the first step in all of this.
Um, and I, I recognize for, you know,
depending on your power exchange and,
and you know how comfortable you are with this and,
and where you're at and how y'all communicate,
it can feel demanding to go to your dom
and be like, I had to wait six months for this reward.
Thank you for it. But it's not complete.
What are we gonna do about that can feel demanding? Mm-Hmm.
. And, you know,
there are some people out there who go, well,
you just need to bring it up like that.
I'm not that person. That's not my style.
So what I would say is,
however you communicate things, if
that's a skill y'all have developed together, um,
that are not always great.
Like sometimes you have to tell your DMA hard thing. Right?
I didn't like that scene. This is now a hard lemon.
I didn't know. Mm-Hmm. , whatever. Right.
Hard things come up. This is
another one of those conversations.
So however you usually would approach that,
you gotta approach this the same way.
There's this thinking that
because something was labeled a gift
or a reward, we as the recipient,
and this is a societal thing, not just a submissive thing.
Yeah. We're just supposed to be grateful for it.
Well, if you gave me something I didn't want, didn't ask for
and or created more work for me, I don't have to be fucking
grateful for anything.
- That's - True. Very true. Okay.
I don't have to bow down to people
and kiss their fucking ass
because they didn't listen to anything I ever told them
and decided that they knew me better
or that they didn't care enough
and just handed off some crap.
I'm not saying that's what your do has done,
but I'm also not saying you don't have every right to be
a little too a lot cranky about it.
So you have every right to bring this up
and go, Hey, so rewards are a really important thing
to me within our power exchange,
and I've noticed that it's not consistent.
And also here are two examples,
and I didn't feel rewarded.
Mm-Hmm. . Now how you're gonna talk
to your partner depends on a lot of factors.
Not, uh, the biggest is probably
how you approach these things
and how you know that they might react to it,
that that affects things.
Sure. I'm gonna approach you in a very gentle way when I
think that the, the subject is touchy.
Mm-Hmm. , I'm gonna be my snarky sassy self
when I feel confident
that you can ha like, you'll accept that.
Right. You won't shut down from what I'm telling you.
Mm-Hmm. . So if this feels like a touchy
subject Yeah.
Be gentle with it. Like ease into it.
Don't, you know, come out the gate swinging
with snark that might not work for y'all.
I'm gonna assume it probably doesn't.
But that's the first step.
You've, you've got to have this conversation with them and,
and say, you know what?
You're happy to do what you're, you're glad you get to do,
you know how fulfilling things are.
Right? And then it's kind of that, uh, sandwich you do
of the good thing, the bad thing,
and then you end on the positive.
Right. It, it doesn't always work
and sometimes it's disingenuous.
But I like to start with the positives. Hey, sure.
Here's what's going great. Here's what I'm happy. Mm-Hmm.
, I'm, this works for me.
Here's what I, I would like us to work on.
This needs improvement. Right. Can you help me with this?
Yeah. Um,
and how that conversation goes will depend
a lot on how they react.
Now the other thing I would say,
because in my experience, just from having talked to a
people, um, for in this way for
so long, um, is that sometimes
these issues aren't the only issues
or they're a symptom of a larger mm-Hmm.
Issue. Mm-Hmm. . So is your service
acknowledged verbally in a way that you feel satisfied with?
Do you feel seen in your power exchange? Mm-Hmm.
Do you feel, um, like your partner, you know,
shows an knowledge is what you do and,
and there's gratitude being
exchanged between the two of you?
If you do, and this is just a little sticking issue to me,
that conversation should not be that difficult
because you can point out, look, you do this really well
and this makes me feel great,
but this is a thing
where I can feel the resentment building.
Mm-Hmm. , I'm gonna
tell you, that's a hard conversation.
There have been times in the not too distant past
where I've had to go to JB and go here.
I let me acknowledge the things that I know are true
and that are struggles for both of us.
Mm-Hmm. , I see the reality.
I see that you're working hard. I see that you're stressed.
I know what our life is like, but okay. Yeah. Yeah.
I see you. And I'm trying to validate him
because it's hard to then go, but here's the deal.
I can feel the resentment building
and I don't know what to do about that.
Yeah. And so then in that kind of conversation,
I can throw the ball in his court
and go, here's how I'm feeling.
Here's how we've gotten here in the past.
You know, what can we do together to work on this?
It's, but it's not easy to tell your partner that
- No, no, it's not.
But at the same time, if resentment is building that'll
- Kill a relationship in a heartbeat,
- That that's gonna, and you know, you,
you can keep it bottled up inside.
- It's gonna come out some way
- At, at, at some point.
It's just gonna blow like a volcano and, and come pouring
- Out.
And it's one of those things that what'll happen is most
likely, um, you may blow up at a thing that
does not seem proportional to the anger you're showing. Or
- Yeah.
- You may hit a point where it doesn't matter the good parts
of the relationship you're done.
And then those partners go, it came out of nowhere.
It's like, nah, this didn't come outta nowhere.
This was months, years, decades in the building. Mm-Hmm.
, you just weren't paying attention.
So if you have not had the conversation
with your partner, that's where you start.
Right? If they're trying to push back
and say that you don't get to choose rewards, you get
to push back and go, well, we need to have this conversation
because you have, you have not filled my well, okay.
Mm-Hmm, , you haven't done been consistent
enough and you haven't given me things
that make me feel rewarded.
So let's talk about the things I need
and then please choose from that.
Because if you give me something outside of that
or something outside of a conversation we've had where,
you know, I would appreciate this.
It's not a reward and I will not take it as such Mm-Hmm.
, the, the way they respond to hearing,
to being told that you are dissatisfied with something
as they're submissive will give you some insight as to how
to carry on and move forward.
It is not easy to hear a negative thing,
but if it's coming across
as constructive criticism in the sense of,
I want you to be good at this.
I want us to handle this well,
I want to move forward with this.
If they're dismissive of you,
I'm gonna bet they're dismissive of you in other areas,
if they're, they may need time, they may gotta need
to walk away and come back and like sit
with their own hurt feelings.
And that's a them mm-Hmm.
problem for them to solve that is not for you
to take on or for you to solve for them.
If they can come back from hurt feelings
or, you know, whatever,
and have the con the adult conversation with you,
then I think you can get there.
It might take a few conversations in some changing
of how they look at things. But,
- And, and what you said about constructive criticism is,
is so, so true.
You know, don't come out of the gate saying, this is crap.
- Right. This sucks. You suck.
Everything sucks. Right. We not getting nowhere
- With that.
Um, you know, yeah, it may suck, but,
- And that may be true, - But that's not, that may be true.
But you know, you, you,
you don't come outta the gate that way.
Um, constructive criticism is, is a good thing.
You know, it's like, Hey, you know,
things have been going pretty good lately.
Um, I'm, I'm happy about the way things are,
but there, there's a couple things
that could use a little bit of improvement.
- Right? Here's some things I need,
I like to come at you with.
Here's what I need. Mm-Hmm.
that I'm not receiving.
I like to, I'm a, I'm a faller when it comes to .
I'm gonna try, I'm gonna try and ease paths.
'cause I have like conflict stuff
that I don't handle well and that's a me thing.
So everybody's got their own style with this.
But I like to start with, here's what I'm happy with.
Here's what you're doing well.
And or I like to go, let me acknowledge what
what I know is tough for you.
Let me acknowledge where things have been rough,
where you've been stressed, where like, mm-Hmm.
. I like to put that out there first
and then go all that being said, here's what I need
and I don't know how we're gonna get there.
How you know, here's what didn't go well
and I need you to know
those conversations become easier the more you do them.
Mm-Hmm. the more you do them,
if a partner is a good partner for you
and is actively trying,
the less you need to have those conversations.
Mm-Hmm. , they don't stop completely.
I mean, we've been together 10 years
and there are absolutely still times one of us has to go,
okay, I see what you're trying to do and I see you trying,
but this isn't working for me.
Yeah. This is what I need instead.
And not only are we all fucking adults here
and should be able to have these conversations, right.
This is power exchange.
These kinds of conversations have to happen
because your dom is not a mind reader.
If you've been unhappy with things,
but you've never said anything, they can't improve on it.
Right. Right. They also, doms also need to realize
that they can't possibly be mind readers
and want the feedback.
Lemme go back to what I said at the top.
How you do that might be determined by your power exchange.
There might be certain times, there might be ways
of speaking to one another that are,
that you've built into your power exchange.
Like I, uh, j b's rule with me is I can say anything I have
to say to him, anything on my mind,
I just have to be respectful about that.
Correct. And the the reverse is true. I
- Might not - Wanna hear that I followed down on
- The job. It goes both ways.
- Yeah. But as long as he comes at me with kindness and love
and respect, he can say whatever he needs to say.
Right. How I feel about it and how I react to it.
That's my problem to deal with and to work through.
And sometimes we can work through that together.
And sometimes I gotta go off to my corner
and pout by my damn self and then go,
but wait, this relationship is more important
to me than my hurt feelings.
Let's work through this. Mm-Hmm.
that's what mature adults who are, who have
or are learning communication skills are gonna do.
I hope your partner is like that.
I hope that you can approach your dom in a way that works
for your power exchange and go, Hey, this,
this hasn't been working for me.
Right. And then you can have the conversation,
but you have to have that conversation.
So while Lola is howling in the background,
we're gonna let her keep howling for a minute.
Let's recap. Yeah. Yes.
Submissives can choose to a certain degree their own rewards
that can be very explicit of Mm-Hmm.
In this situation. Give me this.
Or it can be a here's my laundry list of things I like
and your dom picks.
Um, yes. Rewards are part of negotiation. Correct.
Just as much as punishment is just as much as consequences.
Just as much as any other part of a power exchange.
And, um, no, I'm not a fan as more service
as an air quote reward personally .
But the first, you gotta have the conversation. Yeah.
And from there then you may,
you may know how to move forward.
Mm-Hmm. . So, uh, if you
got any, I I think we've covered it.
Okay. Okay. Um, yeah, thanks for listening
to this week's q and a episode.
If you want us to answer one of your questions,
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