1 00:00:03,697 --> 00:00:05,924 Welcome to faith and freedom. We hope to 2 00:00:05,924 --> 00:00:08,945 inform, inspire and encourage you to stand up 3 00:00:08,945 --> 00:00:11,430 for faith and freedom. As we discuss victories 4 00:00:11,430 --> 00:00:14,323 and challenges in the courts in public policy 5 00:00:14,461 --> 00:00:16,774 and in the culture. Faith and freedom is 6 00:00:16,774 --> 00:00:19,348 brought to you by Liberty Counsel, a litigation 7 00:00:19,645 --> 00:00:20,800 education and policy 8 00:00:21,339 --> 00:00:23,899 organization. Join us now as we address the 9 00:00:23,899 --> 00:00:27,420 latest cultural issues across America and around the 10 00:00:27,420 --> 00:00:27,795 world 11 00:00:30,224 --> 00:00:32,875 Liberty Council will appeal the Kentucky church lockdown 12 00:00:32,933 --> 00:00:34,766 case. We're gonna be talking about this on 13 00:00:34,766 --> 00:00:36,598 faith and Freedom. My Met S, founder and 14 00:00:36,757 --> 00:00:39,240 Chairman of Liberty. Counsel. Joining me is Holly 15 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:40,832 made. You know, Matt, it seems like a 16 00:00:40,832 --> 00:00:42,902 lifetime ago we were dealing with the situation. 17 00:00:43,061 --> 00:00:45,051 In fact it was Easter of 20 20. 18 00:00:45,704 --> 00:00:49,379 When the police officer showed up at Mary 19 00:00:49,459 --> 00:00:53,888 Baptist Church in Kentucky and told these parish 20 00:00:54,103 --> 00:00:56,726 that they could not worship in the church 21 00:00:56,726 --> 00:00:59,268 or even in the parking lot, and they 22 00:00:59,268 --> 00:01:02,146 were threatening them with a violation, I believe 23 00:01:02,146 --> 00:01:04,930 if they did so. Yes. The governor actually 24 00:01:04,930 --> 00:01:05,430 had 25 00:01:05,964 --> 00:01:07,475 issued an executive order. 26 00:01:08,208 --> 00:01:08,708 Governor 27 00:01:09,245 --> 00:01:09,723 Bash. 28 00:01:10,441 --> 00:01:11,739 And he 29 00:01:13,153 --> 00:01:15,089 is a democrat that was 30 00:01:15,625 --> 00:01:17,242 somebody who had previously 31 00:01:17,872 --> 00:01:18,372 given 32 00:01:18,744 --> 00:01:19,537 accommodation to his, 33 00:01:20,489 --> 00:01:22,392 attorney general on the same sex marriage issue. 34 00:01:22,630 --> 00:01:24,533 Mh. But he would not give any a 35 00:01:24,533 --> 00:01:25,350 accommodation here 36 00:01:25,659 --> 00:01:28,759 with regards to the issue of religious freedom. 37 00:01:28,997 --> 00:01:30,507 In fact, he did exactly the opposite. He 38 00:01:30,507 --> 00:01:32,017 issued this order, and he said no in 39 00:01:32,017 --> 00:01:32,517 person 40 00:01:33,051 --> 00:01:36,008 and no parking lots services, no parking lot 41 00:01:36,008 --> 00:01:37,600 services. But, yeah, People were showing up at 42 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,829 these big box stores, home depot what have 43 00:01:39,829 --> 00:01:42,297 you going in there as as usual. 44 00:01:42,948 --> 00:01:46,051 That was okay, but church was not. He 45 00:01:46,051 --> 00:01:48,437 actually warned people that he would send out 46 00:01:48,437 --> 00:01:49,312 the state troopers. 47 00:01:49,884 --> 00:01:51,501 If anybody went to church 48 00:01:51,879 --> 00:01:52,757 on Easter. 49 00:01:53,475 --> 00:01:55,789 And so this was Easter Sunday, 50 00:01:56,587 --> 00:01:59,384 and doc Jack Roberts is the pastor had 51 00:01:59,384 --> 00:02:02,161 been the longtime pastor of Mary Baptist Church. 52 00:02:02,399 --> 00:02:04,010 And so they set up 53 00:02:04,620 --> 00:02:07,432 sir speakers out in the parking lot outside 54 00:02:07,432 --> 00:02:07,831 the church, 55 00:02:08,471 --> 00:02:10,548 while he was inside speaking, 56 00:02:11,108 --> 00:02:13,745 and people then would drive into the parking 57 00:02:13,745 --> 00:02:15,595 lot, and they would be able to hear 58 00:02:15,595 --> 00:02:17,829 the message over the loud speakers. But I 59 00:02:17,829 --> 00:02:19,924 don't know. The police officers were putting notices 60 00:02:19,982 --> 00:02:22,455 on their car, requiring them what to show 61 00:02:22,455 --> 00:02:23,890 up at the health department every day to 62 00:02:23,890 --> 00:02:26,710 do testing and whatnot? Yeah. The actual straight. 63 00:02:27,084 --> 00:02:29,467 Police officers actually came to the parking lot, 64 00:02:29,626 --> 00:02:32,009 while these people were in their car. With 65 00:02:32,009 --> 00:02:33,836 their windows With their windows rolled up, 66 00:02:34,882 --> 00:02:35,779 And How 67 00:02:36,389 --> 00:02:36,889 would 68 00:02:38,292 --> 00:02:39,109 put these 69 00:02:40,195 --> 00:02:41,464 citations on their windshield. 70 00:02:42,194 --> 00:02:44,192 Even remember of the media even showed up, 71 00:02:44,351 --> 00:02:45,491 and they gave me 72 00:02:46,189 --> 00:02:47,148 citation. Yes. I know. 73 00:02:48,586 --> 00:02:50,459 That was crazy. The... Media... 74 00:02:51,396 --> 00:02:53,493 We have a photograph of the media van 75 00:02:53,791 --> 00:02:55,707 with a citation on its front window. 76 00:02:56,346 --> 00:02:59,401 And so what the citation said is that 77 00:03:00,032 --> 00:03:03,134 They were in violation of the governor's executive 78 00:03:03,134 --> 00:03:03,634 order 79 00:03:04,009 --> 00:03:05,941 and that they had to quarantine 80 00:03:06,396 --> 00:03:09,387 for 14 days, and anybody in their vehicle 81 00:03:09,447 --> 00:03:11,924 had to quarantine for 14 days. But they 82 00:03:11,924 --> 00:03:13,522 had to go for testing every day. They 83 00:03:13,522 --> 00:03:14,182 had to go 84 00:03:15,201 --> 00:03:18,334 every day, 14 and Been travel out of 85 00:03:18,334 --> 00:03:20,414 town out of state... You travel out of 86 00:03:20,414 --> 00:03:22,414 their prisoners. Out of their county. Yeah. 87 00:03:23,215 --> 00:03:24,514 They couldn't use public 88 00:03:24,895 --> 00:03:27,642 transportation. Mh. So they couldn't use anything 89 00:03:28,177 --> 00:03:31,282 that would be public transportation, which means, they 90 00:03:31,282 --> 00:03:32,100 couldn't even 91 00:03:32,556 --> 00:03:33,056 use 92 00:03:34,003 --> 00:03:35,219 A911 93 00:03:35,276 --> 00:03:35,776 call 94 00:03:36,152 --> 00:03:37,743 to have an ambulance pick them up and 95 00:03:37,743 --> 00:03:40,073 go to the hospital. Unless they first got 96 00:03:40,368 --> 00:03:40,607 permission, 97 00:03:41,339 --> 00:03:43,414 from the department of health of the state 98 00:03:43,414 --> 00:03:45,251 of Kentucky. But don't forget. They could go 99 00:03:45,251 --> 00:03:47,406 across the street to Lowe's or Home Depot 100 00:03:47,406 --> 00:03:49,641 and get their pot plants. The same people 101 00:03:49,641 --> 00:03:51,965 problem would have driven just very close to 102 00:03:51,965 --> 00:03:54,113 that church to a home depot. They could 103 00:03:54,113 --> 00:03:56,022 have jammed the parking lot on that Easter 104 00:03:56,101 --> 00:03:58,169 Sunday morning. That could have turned on their 105 00:03:58,169 --> 00:03:58,669 radios 106 00:03:59,456 --> 00:04:01,760 parked side by side and listened to the 107 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,222 pastor preaching on the radio. Right. And ours 108 00:04:04,222 --> 00:04:06,048 wasn't the only church this has happened to. 109 00:04:06,287 --> 00:04:07,954 Several of them they were showing up doing 110 00:04:07,954 --> 00:04:10,200 the same thing. Yeah. So we ended up 111 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:10,700 filing 112 00:04:11,077 --> 00:04:12,295 a an emergency 113 00:04:12,672 --> 00:04:14,905 injunction we lost at the lower court. 114 00:04:16,420 --> 00:04:18,036 And the Democrat appointed 115 00:04:18,669 --> 00:04:21,945 judge ruled against us. We appealed that as 116 00:04:21,945 --> 00:04:24,423 an emergency appeal to the 6 circuit court 117 00:04:24,423 --> 00:04:26,361 of appeals. We got a 3 to 0 118 00:04:26,660 --> 00:04:27,160 decision 119 00:04:27,633 --> 00:04:29,944 that granted us the right to have the 120 00:04:29,944 --> 00:04:30,979 parking lot services. 121 00:04:31,855 --> 00:04:32,993 And then the court 122 00:04:33,449 --> 00:04:36,396 wanted some additional information on the in person 123 00:04:36,396 --> 00:04:36,769 service 124 00:04:37,287 --> 00:04:38,003 inside the church. 125 00:04:38,719 --> 00:04:41,026 We came back a week later, got a 126 00:04:41,026 --> 00:04:43,992 3 to 0 decision on the in person 127 00:04:44,765 --> 00:04:45,743 inside the church 128 00:04:46,053 --> 00:04:46,372 worship. 129 00:04:47,485 --> 00:04:48,304 And then 130 00:04:48,997 --> 00:04:52,282 the court of appeals also ruled that the 131 00:04:52,498 --> 00:04:55,531 lower court judge should issue a preliminary injunction 132 00:04:55,531 --> 00:04:57,699 to us as well. And so was forced 133 00:04:57,914 --> 00:05:00,955 to issue the preliminary injunction on our behalf 134 00:05:01,264 --> 00:05:02,562 in favor of the 135 00:05:03,178 --> 00:05:06,470 church And consequently, they were able to worship 136 00:05:06,528 --> 00:05:07,246 without these 137 00:05:07,645 --> 00:05:09,479 Draco hone restrictions. And, you know when the 138 00:05:09,479 --> 00:05:12,123 word got around, people came from out of 139 00:05:12,123 --> 00:05:14,030 town out of state to come worship at 140 00:05:14,030 --> 00:05:15,778 this church in support of what they were 141 00:05:15,778 --> 00:05:19,055 doing and the pastor, doctor Jack Roberts. Yeah. 142 00:05:19,214 --> 00:05:22,175 So they did. The amazing thing is that 143 00:05:23,134 --> 00:05:24,654 we had a couple of people that were 144 00:05:24,654 --> 00:05:25,154 fired 145 00:05:25,615 --> 00:05:27,214 that were attending that church. 146 00:05:28,346 --> 00:05:31,052 From their employees. From their employers. Wow. Because 147 00:05:31,052 --> 00:05:33,280 they went back to work on Monday, 148 00:05:33,996 --> 00:05:34,496 and 149 00:05:35,524 --> 00:05:37,514 people in their office realized, oh, you're a 150 00:05:37,514 --> 00:05:39,026 member of Mary V baptist Church. 151 00:05:39,743 --> 00:05:42,689 You went to this in person. You went 152 00:05:42,689 --> 00:05:43,348 into this 153 00:05:44,850 --> 00:05:46,994 worship service. Well, it was 10. It was 154 00:05:46,994 --> 00:05:48,661 in they were in the cars, 155 00:05:49,297 --> 00:05:51,361 and their windows were rolled up. And 156 00:05:51,838 --> 00:05:54,164 they fired them. I think 2 people got 157 00:05:54,164 --> 00:05:55,845 fired. I know 1 person. I believe 2 158 00:05:55,845 --> 00:05:58,724 people got fired at different employers. They fired 159 00:05:58,724 --> 00:05:59,224 them 160 00:05:59,524 --> 00:06:01,064 because of the 161 00:06:02,017 --> 00:06:04,646 Stigma that had been placed on them by 162 00:06:04,646 --> 00:06:05,305 the governor 163 00:06:05,841 --> 00:06:08,628 because what happened is, owe, these people, they're 164 00:06:08,628 --> 00:06:12,328 violating the governor's executive order. And now they 165 00:06:12,544 --> 00:06:13,044 have 166 00:06:13,498 --> 00:06:15,646 met for worship. Well, they were in cars, 167 00:06:16,282 --> 00:06:19,426 and they might be careers of this Covid 168 00:06:19,564 --> 00:06:21,320 virus because they met in cars. And now 169 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,793 they've got a citation and that citation is 170 00:06:23,793 --> 00:06:24,931 that they need to quarantine 171 00:06:25,244 --> 00:06:26,760 Well, what are they doing at work? Well, 172 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:27,796 they have no symptoms. 173 00:06:28,754 --> 00:06:30,269 They were not out of their cars. 174 00:06:31,146 --> 00:06:33,699 That was a bogus order, but they actually 175 00:06:33,699 --> 00:06:34,895 lost their jobs. Wow. 176 00:06:35,626 --> 00:06:38,251 So this was the nonsense that was going 177 00:06:38,251 --> 00:06:40,001 on 4 years ago, Holly. It's hard to 178 00:06:40,001 --> 00:06:40,978 believe that was 179 00:06:41,512 --> 00:06:43,103 a surreal time. So At had any rate. 180 00:06:44,074 --> 00:06:44,555 We end up, 181 00:06:45,355 --> 00:06:47,355 then getting these injunction, 182 00:06:48,235 --> 00:06:51,274 the executive orders are finally rep peeled because 183 00:06:51,274 --> 00:06:53,009 you got court orders against 184 00:06:53,367 --> 00:06:54,402 those executive orders. 185 00:06:55,674 --> 00:06:57,504 This particular case that we brought up to 186 00:06:57,504 --> 00:06:59,277 the court of appeals was the first 187 00:07:00,302 --> 00:07:02,367 case to reach the court of appeals in 188 00:07:02,367 --> 00:07:05,543 the country and Liberty Council was part of 189 00:07:05,543 --> 00:07:08,322 that very first court of appeals win against 190 00:07:08,322 --> 00:07:10,881 any locked down order in the entire nation. 191 00:07:11,199 --> 00:07:13,370 Okay. But in this case, the sixth circuit 192 00:07:13,586 --> 00:07:16,291 said that the church in the pastor were 193 00:07:16,291 --> 00:07:19,011 the... Are the prevailing party us and should 194 00:07:19,011 --> 00:07:21,797 be entitled to attorney's fees and cost. But 195 00:07:21,797 --> 00:07:23,810 yet the the lower court judge 196 00:07:24,345 --> 00:07:27,304 denied that. Well, what happened is, there were 197 00:07:27,304 --> 00:07:30,325 some people from another location that were not 198 00:07:30,325 --> 00:07:31,835 members of the church. Mh. 199 00:07:32,392 --> 00:07:34,323 And they came to the church 200 00:07:35,355 --> 00:07:37,275 on a subsequent time or they said they 201 00:07:37,275 --> 00:07:39,194 wanted to come and visit the church. And 202 00:07:39,194 --> 00:07:40,634 they had a separate lawsuit. So they had 203 00:07:40,634 --> 00:07:41,595 a separate lawsuit. 204 00:07:42,408 --> 00:07:44,555 And they went to a separate judge, 205 00:07:45,271 --> 00:07:46,328 and they got a 206 00:07:46,782 --> 00:07:48,452 an injunction like we did as well, 207 00:07:49,486 --> 00:07:51,553 after we did, we got the first injunction. 208 00:07:52,284 --> 00:07:54,122 So they got an injunction later, 209 00:07:54,921 --> 00:07:57,557 but their judge in a different part of 210 00:07:57,557 --> 00:07:59,175 the place of Kentucky 211 00:07:59,569 --> 00:08:02,206 said you're entitled to prevailing party status and 212 00:08:02,206 --> 00:08:03,884 you are entitled to attorney's fees. 213 00:08:04,922 --> 00:08:06,600 The state of Kentucky appealed that to the 214 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:07,000 sixth circuit. 215 00:08:07,732 --> 00:08:09,880 They argue that, no. You're not entitled to 216 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:11,789 attorney's fees. The 6 circuit could have appeal 217 00:08:11,789 --> 00:08:13,460 said, oh, yes, you are because you got 218 00:08:13,460 --> 00:08:14,096 this injunction. 219 00:08:14,987 --> 00:08:15,806 We then 220 00:08:16,182 --> 00:08:18,810 had our case, go back down to the 221 00:08:18,810 --> 00:08:21,199 lower court because our case was up on 222 00:08:21,199 --> 00:08:23,165 appeal. The judge had denied our 223 00:08:23,998 --> 00:08:26,142 right to pursue attorney's fees say that we 224 00:08:26,142 --> 00:08:29,079 weren't prevailing parties that the injunction... Yeah. We 225 00:08:29,079 --> 00:08:31,064 had an injunction for sure, but the governor 226 00:08:31,064 --> 00:08:32,040 just rep peeled 227 00:08:32,590 --> 00:08:34,129 the mandate. So 228 00:08:34,590 --> 00:08:36,830 the case is moved. The 6 circuit said 229 00:08:36,830 --> 00:08:38,669 no. Send it back down to the judge, 230 00:08:39,710 --> 00:08:41,125 reconsider all this in light of what we. 231 00:08:41,485 --> 00:08:43,565 Right Look at this other case And all 232 00:08:43,565 --> 00:08:44,945 inside. Same price 233 00:08:45,644 --> 00:08:49,565 the same church. Right. The same exact issues. 234 00:08:51,416 --> 00:08:53,912 Affirming that they are prevailing party 235 00:08:54,290 --> 00:08:56,605 and that they are entitled trans fees. So 236 00:08:56,605 --> 00:08:58,760 our judge, it should have been a rubber 237 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,051 stamp. Right. A new brainer. Right. Yeah. As 238 00:09:02,051 --> 00:09:03,009 we say. And so, 239 00:09:04,128 --> 00:09:06,125 unfortunately, what happened in our case is the 240 00:09:06,125 --> 00:09:06,625 judge 241 00:09:07,177 --> 00:09:08,131 issues another ruling. 242 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,026 The judge issues another ruling and says, 243 00:09:13,059 --> 00:09:15,523 no. You're not entitled to a prevailing party 244 00:09:15,523 --> 00:09:15,761 status. 245 00:09:16,973 --> 00:09:18,432 Intention did not change 246 00:09:19,529 --> 00:09:21,846 the status. Well, no. It did. 247 00:09:22,485 --> 00:09:22,965 It did. 248 00:09:23,537 --> 00:09:25,607 And the court of appeals has already indicated 249 00:09:25,607 --> 00:09:27,596 that it did. So now, you know? Here 250 00:09:27,596 --> 00:09:29,268 we go again. Here we go. Racking up 251 00:09:29,268 --> 00:09:31,337 more fees I would think we're... Yeah. Racking 252 00:09:31,337 --> 00:09:33,421 up more attorney's fees because we're putting more 253 00:09:33,421 --> 00:09:35,431 time in it. So we're back up now 254 00:09:35,488 --> 00:09:38,213 to the same 6 circuit court of appeals 255 00:09:38,905 --> 00:09:40,177 to appeal again, 256 00:09:41,228 --> 00:09:42,584 And how many times have we've been to 257 00:09:42,584 --> 00:09:44,259 the court of appeals on this case? This 258 00:09:44,259 --> 00:09:46,014 is gonna to be the second time on 259 00:09:46,014 --> 00:09:48,818 the attorney's fees issue prevailing part status. We 260 00:09:48,818 --> 00:09:50,727 went to the court of appeals to at 261 00:09:50,727 --> 00:09:53,034 least to maybe 3 times before. This might 262 00:09:53,034 --> 00:09:54,466 have been our fifth time at the court 263 00:09:54,466 --> 00:09:57,212 of deals. Getting the court of appeals 264 00:09:58,385 --> 00:10:00,695 to overturn the lower court judge. You think 265 00:10:00,695 --> 00:10:01,970 they just get the judge on the phone 266 00:10:01,970 --> 00:10:03,583 in listen. Would you do the right thing 267 00:10:03,583 --> 00:10:06,300 here? Come on. Was that ridiculous. Yeah. It 268 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:08,797 should have been a no brainer. And... But 269 00:10:08,937 --> 00:10:10,535 here we are. We're back up on appeal. 270 00:10:10,950 --> 00:10:12,870 Pray for the case because justice needs to 271 00:10:12,870 --> 00:10:15,830 be served. Right absolutely. Governor Bash shares issued 272 00:10:15,830 --> 00:10:19,842 an unconstitutional order. It resulted in harm. Some 273 00:10:19,842 --> 00:10:21,996 people lost their jobs over there. And we 274 00:10:21,996 --> 00:10:23,990 need an injunction so this doesn't happen again. 275 00:10:24,229 --> 00:10:26,564 And they need to pay for their 276 00:10:26,941 --> 00:10:29,983 constitutional actions so that this sends a message 277 00:10:29,983 --> 00:10:31,334 loud and clear. For more information, Got to 278 00:10:31,651 --> 00:10:33,955 Council's website l c dot org. 279 00:10:35,066 --> 00:10:37,052 You've been listening to faith in Freedom brought 280 00:10:37,052 --> 00:10:38,402 to you by Liberty Counsel. 281 00:10:39,053 --> 00:10:40,963 We hope that we have motivated you to 282 00:10:40,963 --> 00:10:43,350 stand up for your faith, family and freedom. 283 00:10:43,987 --> 00:10:47,188 Get informed and get involved today. Visit Liberty 284 00:10:47,348 --> 00:10:50,065 Council's website at l c dot 0RG, 285 00:10:50,465 --> 00:10:52,803 where you can obtain email alerts and other 286 00:10:52,942 --> 00:10:55,234 information to keep you informed and involved 287 00:10:55,591 --> 00:10:57,733 The website again l c dot org.