Thanks for pressing play. If you love this
Ser magic that can only occur in a
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is Christopher Lock, follow your different. The number
1 real dialogue cast for business leaders, entrepreneurs
and category designers with a different mind.
Our guest today is the legendary Ra Sierra.
Roman is not only a distinguished behavioral economist
and professor at Case western reserve University,
but also a vocal advocate for Ukraine.
In this gripping episode, Roman ramon shares the
deeply personal and harrowing experiences of living through
the ongoing war in Ukraine.
He provides a powerful insight into the resilience
and determination of the Ukrainian people amidst devastating
circumstances.
Ra dedication to his homeland is pal. As
he recounts his efforts to support those affected
by the conflict.
From raising funds to rebuild his Alma mater
to providing aid to hospitals.
His perspective on the global implications of the
war and the importance of standing against aggression
is both thought provoking and inspiring.
Join us for an emotional and enlighten conversation
that underscores the critical importance of strength and
unity in the face of tyranny.
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Now as Joey Ramon said, Hey h, let's
go.
Roman, it's wonderful to see you. Well, it's
a pleasure to be here. Thank you so
much.
And
I'm sure every day has been tough since
the beginning of this war,
but I know things have been a little
bit more than just tough for you lately.
How are you doing?
Yeah. Today is a that devastating day because,
today, Russia hit
Ukraine in hospital
Did, which is the largest
children hospital in Ukraine, and, it's especially
dear to me because
I went to that hospital many times. We
brought 8 to that hospital. We brought,
medical equipment, Medicine
We brought
finances.
I went, I cried with families with kids.
I hugged them. I prayed for them. I,
Yeah.
So
and now some of them are dead,
So it's a difficult day. I'm so very
very sorry.
Thank you.
I'm so very sorry.
How is your family? How are your friends
and and loved ones?
Well, thankfully, most of my family is in
the Western Ukraine. So,
they do get their share of pain, but,
I mean, if
you've comparing to the rest of Ukrainians, I
think they are definitely doing, I would say
a little bit better because they're in the
south... Safer side of Ukraine, and you on
from keys kinda
closer to the Polish border, but they do
get hit from time to time,
just
less than 2 weeks ago, my Alma mater
university that I studied that,
I got my bachelor's the green economics from
there. Then as when I became a professor,
I traveled many times to Ukraine and give
lectures at that university diverse the. It's been
hit.
And now I am actually
part of
the things that I tried to do is
throwing raise some funds to help them to
rebuild and
there been some good people that came along.
And so we are in the process of
rebuilding my Alma mater.
So, yeah. I mean, thankfully, my parents are
safe. My brother is safe, uncle,
my aunt.
But
Ukrainians are suffering.
Please
let me know where to send money and
we'll write a check.
Thank you, Chris... We've been trying to support
the Ukrainian people
since the first horrible day of this war.
In any way we can. So if we
can help at all with your alma mater,
shake my wallet at loose, we'll we'll cut
you check.
Thank you.
What's it like
for people living
in the Ukraine now. It's been
well over 2 years.
And I think there's a lot of people
certainly in the United States and even in
much of Western Europe
that don't know what it's like to live.
In war.
So
there are a couple things
that make a difference,
from the sort of normal day life, and
I can tell because I sort of live
into world worlds. I spent a lot of
time especially the first 2 years in Ukraine,
living there most of my time and then
going back to the states and so when
I'm in the states,
you know, things that I take for granted
is just hey. I can connect with you
over the Internet, and I can... I have
electricity, And I have to worry about turning
on my
lights. I have water. I can take shower
every day. I have
just basic necessities and in Ukraine, all those
necessities
kind of been cut off. And so some
people,
they don't understand that the russia is trying
to break them
Ukrainian people, not the military. They cannot do
much on the front. They failed in many,
many grounds. Yes. There is some little
concessions that go here and there on the
on the front line, but those are so
minor and minute renewed
that it's nothing comparison to
what they would like to accomplish. And so
as a result, what they're trying to do
is just shell the infrastructure,
destroy the
electric grids,
70 percent of the ukrainian capacity, electric capacity
has been destroyed and damaged.
And so that creates a very difficult life
on a
mundane daily
level. So for example, my parents,
you know, there's half a bay,
where there's no electricity in then, there is
a half a day. There is electricity. And
my parents as I said already,
in sort of in the better state
because they,
they're somewhat more better off financially, they,
have electric,
batteries that and generators and things like that.
But even with that, it's it's stuff. It's
stuff because,
even if you can cover those basic
necessities,
there's is always
as a ecological
difficulty.
You wake up every morning.
First of all, some of you don't go
to. Sleep because there is air alarm and
if you're in a dangerous place, you need
to go to the bomb shelter.
And then when you copy in the morning,
the first thing you do, you checked you
check the news. You read through the telegram
channels in the social media to find out
who has been killed,
You know, and you hope that this is
not somebody, you know or somebody
around you,
you find out, and then,
in the middle of the day, you walk
on the streets and you know, kind of
live resumes and people learn to be resilient.
But then again, the air raid alarm turns
on, and you need to figure out, are
you in a dangerous place or are you
not? Your phone goes on there's is an
app that basically
notifies everybody. So everybody around you, just hears
the sound of noise and so everybody checks.
Oh, the rockets are flying this in this
direction, You know, you have to be careful.
If you're any other from keys, they're saying,
well, they're flying your direction and they could
hit you in
15 minutes.
So you kind of know that you have
15 minutes, and then you will need to
do something. So
that's that's the reality. That's the life
besides
just
typical, daily problems that all of us have,
you know, trying to pay the bills, trying
to, you know, provide for the family and
all these other things. But then on on
on top of that, you have this layer
of uncertainty, the layer of,
constant psychological,
but you know,
overhead over your head, and so that... That's
the life. That's how it is.
Fuck.
Now, pretty much
summarizes in 1 word. Fuck.
Yeah.
I know it anger me tremendously.
No.
I can't imagine how you and your family
feel.
And how the
millions are wonderful wonderful Ukrainians feel.
Yeah. It's it's tough because
you can't do.
Sorry.
You can't do anything.
You don't?
And yet you're doing so much.
You're 1 of the most vocal people
in America,
fighting for your country and your people. Yeah.
But it's not enough, You know, you
try
to do everything you can,
and you just can't stop seagull.
So, yeah,
I lost already 3 friends on the battlefield,
3 of my cousins right now on the
front frontlines.
1 of my cousins was just recently hit
by the Russian Drone. He survived, but, you
know, Badly injured
trying to recover. So it's Spain. It's Pain
and
you know, it's kind of difficult also to
You know, right now, I'm sitting in Cleveland.
I'm planning another trip. I'll be back back
in Ukraine soon, but
sitting Cl little or ohio and in in
a way, I,
kinda of feel bad. Bad that, you know,
guilt
that I'm not doing enough that I cannot
do more that I'm here and
my cousins are on the battlefield and
and understanding my my family is here. My
wife is from Cleveland. I mean, she's America...
She's is the Ukraine American.
And I understand that there is just so
much that I can do, but it's just
never enough, you know, and it's a
really
difficult,
very difficult
emotionally,
just that to to to to
being in that state where
you wanna do more... You understand that so
much more needs to be done, but you
just can't. You know, it's completely out of
your control.
Yeah.
And there's
there's some...
Do you ever feel like you're living in
a completely fucking
upside down world.
Like... Yeah.
Yeah. People in America who say that we
have no interest in that this is not
our war, and some very smart people. People
I know, very influential people
who are very smart who are not bad
people.
Yeah. But very publicly come out and say
this is not our war. This is not
our problem.
We've got broken bridges in the United States.
We should build our own country,
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
And at the same time... Sorry. Go ahead.
Go ahead, please. Yeah. No, Christopher This to
extent, I understand the sentiment. I mean, I
understand that
people go locally here. I'm am a Us
citizen. So I know what it is. I
know that, you know, people have their
troubles, the
They have their pains, daily pains, but you
have to understand that there is also
sort of, you know, this in this world
when we set up the priorities.
We need to kind of,
you know, build a level of priorities.
And and so
when we talk about the ultimate priority is
is a human life dignity, this is why
you know, our founding fathers, you know, the
lagged liberty pursuit of happiness is these is
sort of kind of a basic things
that we build upon and
if you complain you and me. I mean,
like, just a regular American, we complain about,
okay,
our prices for food went up,
by, let's say, 15 percent, which they did,
and they did actually around the world. It's
not only the American problem. You can blame
biden Trump, whoever you wanna blame doesn't matter.
Somebody's else's problem right now. My kid was
killed.
My wife was raped.
My
home was completely destroyed and he understand that
the level
is so much different. And then you go
once step beyond, and you understand that,
you know, this is
close to the mass genocide on a on
in our in our 20 first century.
And you understand that literally, the world war
2 pre world war 2
scenario is being repeated, and that is if
we don't stop this evil now. It will
only be emboldened
and, like, look, we can talk about this
later on today. But
if we don't stop Russian.
If we reward them in any way in
any way, for the aggression and genocide and
all the what they have done,
that gives
a
green light to every
dictator
every
regime in this world to start their own
little war and invasion.
We're talking about China attacking Tay knowing that
they will get something out of it that
they will never be punished to the full
extent that they should be. We can go
iran doing the same thing, and you can
just name it. I mean, you can name
which countries will be next, and this is
really opening the door for the real world
war 3
because
every country that has this
dictator tutorial
or, you know, genocidal regime running it,
will have
a green light to do this on the
mass scale. And
when the evil is emboldened.
I mean,
then then real
real trouble begins, and so we as Americans
who sort of sit here in the safety
and saying this is not our war. It
will become our war. And but it will
become such a war that it will be
truly devastating and now
you know, our loved ones
here will be,
involved in this. And
we have seen this done in the past
We have seen this done with Hitler
when Chamberlain was trying the British prime minister
at that time tried to appease him say,
oh, you know, you can take just czech
slovakia,
You know, or you can take this in
this part. You know, And then as a
result, we had the full blown
world war 2 because you gave them the
permission. And this is exactly the same thing,
and that's why
all of this
you know, garbage talk about the peace talks
with Russia why you are not negotiating? How
can you negotiate with somebody who came and
put the hat to gun to your head
and saying, hey, let me just blow up
your brains, and you were like, oh, no.
Don't blow up the whole brains, just, you
know, shook my leg. I mean, they just
it doesn't fit my,
you know, brain of logic that this is
this is not just
Ukrainian war. This is something that concerns the
whole humanity as such.
I happen to agree with you with a
thousand percent.
My grandfather served in World War 2.
And thanks to his generation,
those of us in the western World in
Western Europe Western war war world more broadly.
We've lived a life of peace.
Exactly. There was no war in Europe
since World War 2.
Until that horrible day.
And
what most Americans seem to don't seem to
not understand,
seem to have forgotten
is that peace
comes from 1 thing and 1 thing only.
1 thing,
strength.
I live on the West Coast and here
in
Santa Cruz, California right near the ocean.
And from time to time, I'll see a
very large ship on the horizon
and I'll wonder what it is.
Is it a military ship? Is it a
research ship?
But here's what I don't wonder.
Are they here to kill us?
Because I know
Yeah. That are all volunteer
military
keeps us safe.
And
what's happening in Ukraine
is a crime against humanity.
And what I don't understand
is why
the western world
has forgotten
that peace only comes through strength And to
your point,
When you let when you allow a warlord,
and that's what that's what Putin is.
He's a murderous.
Evil,
warlord,
who does horrible things to his own people?
Never mind
to Ukrainians and others.
And you don't keep them in check.
Look, you don't have to be a social
social and political expert
to realize
that part of why Hamas did what they
did. The horrible attack
is because ran new
the Us
and Western Europe
were p.
They weren't gonna do anything about it.
And they haven't.
Because,
what we've allowed to take place
in Ukraine.
That's my opinion. And I'm curious as to
your reaction. Oh, Christopher, I'm a hundred percent
agree with you. I think that's exactly the
kind of
escalation. And people talk about the escalation, you
know, if if we give weapons to Ukraine,
the real guns and this and that then
that will escalate the war and everything.
No. It's the other way around as you
pointed it out. If we don't give the
weapons,
if we don't build the military capacity to
stop these
thugs,
then we get the escalation, how hamas is
next.
Who attacked Israel.
China is next, that will attack Taiwan and
you name it. You can go through the
list of the countries that ever had an
eye on certain piece of land. This will
happen.
That will be an
escalation. The the reason is
because there is not
enough
strength that is being shown
upfront. And by the way, this is me
speaking as an expert in the field. I
a behavioral economist who studied conflict and conflict
resolution all my life.
And I've ran
hundreds of experiments
and studies and data analysis,
looking at what's stops the conflict
and stopping the conflict,
is
actually,
it's a very
simple
idea, and that is when you have strength.
When you have strength
when 2 equal opponents calm understanding that they
are very strong, equally capable. They will not
engage in the conflict because they know that
this will be a mutually painful for both
of them.
And the likelihood of winning, winning is gonna
be so little. You're just gonna destroy each
other. So as a result, you don't go
against each other. And this is a very
old idea. It's been published or over the
academic literature it's been researched so well.
I think the answer to your question why
we have forgotten this
is
because we had so such a long piece
in the world. And we sort of thought
well, you know, since we have such peace,
we have no need for strength anymore.
And but putin did not forget that. He
understood too. We saw this weakness, China will
not forget this. Ham hamas will not forget
this.
And so,
1 thing, and I'll tell you, Christopher. The
1 thing that I think is really
a positive that will come out out of
the war is that
the world
has changed.
Europe has changed.
You know, we see the commitment the military
commitment from Germany
that
previously would never have seen the such a
commitment to the defense because of their history
but nazis easy in the past. But now
they understand that there is no other way
around as to build a strong military
production, the strong military force to,
being able to repel
Russia, and any other, you know, aggression in
the future, and I'll tell you more,
if Europe were to be attacked today,
on a grand scale, with the russia of
fully mobilizing
their
people.
We're talking about millions of people. I think
Europe would fall.
And the reason is because Europe is not
willing to pay the price, I don't think
anybody is willing to pay such a prices,
Ukrainians are paying today
to truly, you know, repel this evil, and
the... For Ukrainians it's a matter of survival.
That's why they are doing what they're doing.
There's no way... There's no other way. We
either survive or we just die and being
eradicated
you know, as not easy at 1 point
of time tried to eradicate juice, and that's
as as simple as that. So there's no
turning back for Ukraine.
But for Europeans, I would actually feel that
a lot of them besides the Balkan states,
maybe Poland that would really put the fight.
But, you know, I don't think
I think we would be really screwed, but
this is changing, and that's 1 reason it's
changing is because of Russia itself and the
aggression and I think that that's a good
saying that we
understand that we cannot rely only in the
United States anymore. We need strong Europe. We
need to have a,
a strong commitment that 2 percent, 3 percent
of your Gdp commitment to nato that we
you know, the... We should have been committed
from the very beginning, and I think nobody's
questioning that anymore. And that's a good thing.
I, a thousand percent agree,
several years ago,
Jacob Dillon, the son of Bob Dylan, who's
wonderful musician in his own right,
wrote a song called Evil
is alive and well.
Yeah.
And there's a, quote, that has been in
my head nonstop
since the beginning of the war,
and everything that has come since then. It's
from an author who's
retired marine marine,
named G Michael Hof.
And he says hard times
create strong men.
Strong men,
create good times.
Good times.
Create weak men,
and weak men,
create hard times.
Yeah. And 1 of the things
that fur me
is this fucked position the United States takes,
which is we will support our allies in
defense only.
Yeah. As long as it takes. That's also
the 1. Yeah. We don't care how many
of you die.
Will will to you dying forever.
But when fucking Iran,
attacks Israel
Yeah. With a barrage of rockets like had
never been seen before.
And thanks to iron dome,
I believe there was only 1 death?
Yeah. It was incredible. Incredible. And what does
the Us government say?
The Us government tells Netanyahu to take the
victory and stand down.
On what fucking planet
if somebody launched a quarter of that, at
New York or La or San Francisco or
pick your city. Down, you know, in and
and do that Isis killed
3000
Americans,
and we blew up fucking 2 countries.
It's insanity.
Yeah. And you see it in our country.
You see it in the in the ethos
that has taken place,
def fund the police.
That's I live in the most pro criminal
state in the United States.
Kamala Harris, the current vice president of the
United States is the most pro criminal
Ag.
In the history of the United States, she
championed 2 major laws here in California, prop
47,
and prop 57,
both of which had a material impact on
reducing penalties for criminals,
d,
making crime legal,
We let murderers out in 15 years. We
let Rap us out in 3 to 4
years. And in our town, if you get
caught with illegal weapons,
stolen money and enough fentanyl to kill 4000
people, you get build out on the same
day with 10000 dollars.
Thing. We... There are people in our country,
who we think all jail should be shut.
There are people in our country who think,
they're are no bad people.
You see. They're just good people who who
were repressed.
They had a... It was society's fault.
Because they grew up in the wrong neighborhood.
They were the wrong color.
They were oppressed by the system.
And so the fact that they're an axe
murdering Man act fucking sis
crazy fuck.
Is our fault then we should let them
out and give them jobs.
And
it may sound like a stretch to some.
But this thinking
is the same thinking
that allows potent, this thinking is the same
thinking that allows
iran. And to your point on the studies,
Roman,
here's the aha for me.
So I have a martial artist.
And 1 of the reasons I got trained
in Martial arts is I had in a
aha 1 day and the aha went like
this.
If I'm not trained to defend myself and
those around me.
Then my safety and security is a function
of your behavior because I don't have much
to say about it.
Right. And I thought fuck that.
I'm going to train myself so that I
have a lot to say about it.
And we had this interesting, and and it's
changed who I am as a person.
I also had 1 of my best friends
murdered in a 3AM home invasion.
By 4 killers.
So while I haven't lived through war,
I know what it's like to have evil
visited upon you.
Sure.
And people don't understand, you don't need a
fucking study from AAA
professor.
To tell you that peaceful only comes through
strength.
The other day we were walking
on a main main area in town.
And
I was with a buddy,
and my wife and his wife were up
ahead of us. They were chatting. We were
chatting.
And as we were walking by, there was
2 older women
probably in their mid seventies, maybe early eighties
walking together.
And there were 2 douche bags.
Like douche real serious criminals,
meth heads, fucker,
and they start saying horrible things to these
women, disgusting things to these women.
And the women were slightly ahead of me
sort of in between
me and
my wife and my buddy's wife.
So I immediately picked up my pace.
I stared right in the eye of the
ins indicator of it.
And I gave him a very particular kind
of look.
And then I walked next to the women.
I introduced myself. I said, hi. My name
is Christopher. How are you? And they said,
fine. How are you?
And I said, just keep walking with me
and pretend we know each other.
And guess what?
The evil fox stood down
because he knew, by the way I looked
at him,
that if he was gonna do anything to
those women, it was gonna be a very
bad day for him.
And you know the amazing thing about that,
Not only do human beings understand it?
Animals do.
I had a dog
attack 1 of my hands,
chasing it down the driveway.
I screamed at that dog and went chasing
after it the dog coulda have got the
hand before me because obviously, the dogs faster
than me. That it was a big dog.
The dog stopped
turned around, I was screaming at it, and
I was going to rip it limb from
limb,
and it took a shit
in my driveway and screen home.
And so my point is you don't have
to be a psychologist
a psychiatrist,
an expert in war, an expert geopolitical,
all you have to know is how the
rules of the jungle word.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a such a
simple,
you know, it's a such a simple rule.
And I I had... By the way, I
had a similar story.
3 months ago. There was still a semester
students were at school. I was teaching a
course at Keith Western. So I
went to school, and then I wasn't on
lunch break. I went to Chipotle to grab
a burrito and and
I walk out out of the Chipotle.
And
and this lady is running again like, lilly,
guy zooms on the bike right next to
me. And the lady running after him and
she's like,
stop him. He has my phone, so the
guy stole the phone from the lady.
And you know what shocked me?
First thing that shocked me that nobody was
doing anything.
People just staring there and standing and, like,
okay.
You know? And and what another thing they
shocked me is just my own. Yeah. Action
is that
at the first... My first kind of knee
jerk reaction was, well, let's please job. Right?
Somebody has to do something, and and, you
know, I...
But at the same time, you know,
maybe because I went through this war experience,
I've seen
horror in the past 2 years,
I'm like, screw this, you know, if I
don't do anything,
nobody will do anything. And so I actually,
dropped my back and actually 2 of my
students were
rights then they were just walking and Again,
like, hey guys watch this. So I actually
sprinted and ran after the guy on the
bike.
The the thing is he was...
I caught up with him. Now the crazy
thing, I don't know if it was just
a horrible bike rider, obviously, you know, but
I I it used to be sprinter, so
I used to to run pretty well, you
know? And so
I cut up with them and,
right before I cut up with him, you
know, he threw the phone on the ground
because, you know, you didn't wanna
anyway, so I can't cut up with him.
I catch him and, of course,
I I told him, like, hey, if you
don't get away the phone, you know, I'm
just gonna...
I I didn't proceed with any violence because
of the things that you sent.
I'm like, dude, they can prosecute me for
doing this.
You know, for me stopping the criminal,
they can actually
go after me and say, well, you committed
violence he had no threats against you and
and and then I'm, you know, and I
actually the ran through my mind.
So, you know, I would be at fault
for doing something good. And so eventually, when
I reported to police and I went to
the university,
and I took half of my day, you
know, the time for doing the right thing.
I had, like, I spent 3 or 4
hours of my time for doing the right
thing explaining.
You know, why what I have done and
why this and this and the police
officer that I spoke to,
You said, you should not have done that.
And that that's that's right me off. You
know? Well and like there it is. Right?
Judge Judy
that has this great expression.
She says, don't piss on my leg and
tell me it's raining.
Yeah. So don't don't stand there and tell
me up as down and down is up.
This is a criminal.
This is a criminal who stole something, a
thousand dollar thing, and you're saying don't do
anything about it. Now, should you beat him
to an inch of his life, probably not.
Should you kill him?
That might be a little extreme.
Yeah. But you know what? If you knock
him off the bike and he breaks a
couple ribs and gets a concussion,
That'll learn you.
That'll get me jail. You know, and that's
the thing. I don't wanna have any... You
know, I've have a clean record and always
been a very
civil abiding citizen. You know,
you can put me in the Cia. I
have never, you know, broken any laws. But
the thing is that you know, the incidents
like this
can work against me for a lifetime. And
for doing the right thing. And I was
shocked that that was like,
the the advice of the police officer, you
said, we will do our job, and I'm
like, well, but if we all
succumb to this sort of
attitude, of not the ending, and just the
people on the streets. I mean, then then
really these stocks will take over. And
And on the grand scale, that's exactly what
Putin is doing, and I think that's a...
These are perfect scenarios that we
on a daily life, and then just goes
to Hamas goes to, you know, Russia goes
to China. And so this is why
for me, what what
really
bugs my mind is that people some people
just don't get it. I mean, like, I
think the average American doesn't. They've never
experienced any kind of physical threat.
Now,
I also wanna ask you there people learned
people, smart people, people who
are arguably not bad people, Maybe even people
who are good people who say you know
what for fuck sakes.
This or is America's fault.
We pushed it too far with saying that
Ukraine could come to
nato,
Russia has made it very clear. There's a
line in the sand there,
blinking
you know, rattled the saber too many times.
Mh.
Putin is paranoid about this, some say with
good reason.
So that's the first piece. Right? That that
that the collective we, whether it's Ukraine,
asking or United States saying, yeah. We think
so,
threatening
threatening Russian this way. That's kind of pointing.
Point b. They also say, look, now that
we are where we are.
Just give him what he fucking wants.
You know, He wants a third of the
country or whatever the whatever he is, he
wants Don and crimean me and well, I
don't, you know better than me. Whatever the
fuck is Putin wants. He's had some gains
of of of territory. It's 2
costly of lives to give it back. So
if he wants a quarter of the country,
give it to them,
and everything will just be fine. What do
you say about that, Roman?
So let's start with the first 1. So
the first 1 as far as the motivation
goes. Right? Why did the war begin? And
so,
obviously, the favorite piece of propaganda again. I
mean, there are many. So there's not in
Ukraine. There's,
you know, nato threatened in Russia. I mean,
obviously, these are all forced false narratives,
they
you know what? The actual...
The piece of evidence that I would wanna
offer from the president the frustrated itself.
And I'm actually gonna ask and urge
everybody who have not watched the interview of
Tucker Carlson
with Putin just to watch it. I mean,
it's a piece of propaganda,
but that propaganda piece actually backfired
for Tucker Carlson and everybody else because putin
When Tucker was trying to push him, say,
hey, it's not it's nato. It's nato. Tell
me that it's nato, that it's nato attacking.
And putin and said, no, Let's go to
the history.
Ukraine is Russian,
and Ukraine shouldn't exist as a nation, and
Ukraine is basically putting
laid it out bluntly
that he wants for Ukrainian nation to... Does
to not to exist.
And
this is an old imperialist
worldview view for putting the greatest
mistake of the twentieth century has been the
fall of the Soviet union. He mentioned that
many, many times, he wants to restore the
empire
that is the motivation. Now other piece of
evidence,
ukrainians didn't wanna go to nato.
Since 19 91,
there was less than 20 percent support joining
nato by Ukrainians.
In 2014
when Russia and ex Crimea,
that number by... I mean, we're talking about
dozens of polls has risen to 50 percent.
Then
since 20 22, now it's 90 percent.
So the Ukrainians
strive to join Nato comes as a consequence
of Russia
attacking and being in an aggressive, not the
other way around. And if putin was didn't
want so much for Nato to expand. I
mean, he did it himself. Finland right now
has doubled the border with Nato for putin.
And why he's not doing anything there. Funny.
He didn't invade Finland didn't he. Alright. Why
not If if if if Nato was the
rate
motivation.
Yeah So so this is a bogus
false narrative. That useful idiots will share and
kind of point out that don't understand the
history with the pre pretext And even sometimes
some really smart people like jazz, a Jeffrey,
Sachs and others, you know, that I just,
like, I just don't get he's economist it's
pretty well known. Economist cited just like me,
you know, I... Yeah, that has actually brains.
So
I I
whether he's been brain to certain standards he's
just not his field He never studied the
history or whatever it is, but it's just
a false narrative. Now going back to your
second point. And the second point is, okay.
We are where we at
to let just give putin, you know, and
let's stop this blood chat.
Well, we already covered that at somewhere and
closer to the beginning of of the show
is that if we
appease the grass. If we impose in them.
What will happen is there will be just
new aggression to come because now, you know,
you start aggression and you get rewarded for
it.
Right? So the next thing, why not a
attack Alaska?
I mean, of course, this is ridiculous notion,
but why not? And that actually black male
was a nuclear threat to Russia again, to
United States this time. Saying, hey, you know,
and by the way, Alaska was Russian landed
at 1 point of time.
So why not? You know, or just attack
both the countries or other countries. If you
really wanna fuck the Us. Attack Canada.
Here we go. Canada would fall in 5
seconds.
Here we go. The Canadian military is
4 guys, 2 Canoe and a couple of
cases of Mo.
And and and there's no...
And there is there's... And you get rewarded
for that because you create a precedent
Imagine... Okay. Let's let's go back to our
level what we discuss on the civil side.
So imagine a guy robbing a bank
And we are saying you know what?
We don't wanna escalate this.
So out of the fifth 10000000 dollars that
you wrote for the bank, keep a million
dollar
you know, it can go.
Guess what happens next. The whole United States
is in fire, every bank will be attacked
because every robber knows that if they go
and, you know, being caught, and then they
can go with certain them out. Already happened
Welcome to California.
Why do you think all the major retailers
left San Francisco?
Because when a of 40 people walks
for media recently that, you know, they literally
legalize legalized the
the the
purchase of the stolen stuff that just insane.
Well, and and
the other thing is... Okay. So crime under
a thousand dollars is is actually legalized in
California?
That's correct. And
here's the other thing.
So for most individuals, their
car, their vehicle
is either their number 1 asset or number
2 asset compared to their house for most
people.
You call the police in the state of
California
and say,
Someone just stole my car.
They email you a Url so you can
fill out a form.
And then nothing happens.
Well, we've defended the police police in Your
state. So...
Exactly. And so
Where do we go from here? We have
an America
who is
to quote, George Carlin, p a weak America.
We now know beyond the shadow of doubt,
although it's been obvious for quite some time,
but we now know on even more shocking
ways than we knew before,
that the president of the United States doesn't
know what day it is.
Sure. He doesn't know what year it is.
Yeah. Mike, he just said he was gonna
be beat Trump in 20 20. I mean,
he's he's gone.
And listen, III voted for Joe. I admire
Joe Biden. I think he's been a good
public servant. I'm
furious about some of the things he's done
from a policy perspective. I don't agree with
what he's said
about everything
throughout his career, but on balance,
I would say he's been a reasonable
public servant to the American people.
He's gotta fucking go.
And the most terrifying thing about what we've
learned now, we now know
that when a Republican president
needs to go. The Republicans will not enact
that 20 fifth amendment,
January sixth.
And we now know neither will the Democrats.
Yeah.
And so we have a situation where some
combination of jill and kamala are running the
country.
We don't know.
So now what what does what the fuck
does this mean for Ukraine, Roman? Yeah. Yeah.
III
will tell you that
it it it is a painful
for me as a Us citizen is a
voting Us citizen. It's a just a... It's
such a painful choice that we came to
the to the time in history
where we are choosing the lesser evil, and
it's just been
a really, really difficult mentally for me to
grasp with this. And then put them Ukraine
in the context of all of this.
The 1 thing as I said, the good
thing that comes out of this that maybe
we will build a stronger Europe. Europe will
realize that they need to
you know,
really get their stuff together,
build strong military. But what the fuck going
on in your? What the fuck is going
on in France? What the fuck is going
on in the Uk?
No, really? Oh, it's it's called
a democracy. Right? So there is there is
that part we play this game. We play
this game.
It it's it's instead of a blessing in
the curse. Right? On 1 hand, you have
a process, a process of refinement, and you
get a lot of useful idiots in in
the process that will
you know, play play the hand pretty well.
So...
Yeah,
And then how do you explain Roman? So
the another 1 that sort of is radically?
Me tough questions that I don't have? No
I know.
I do. Yeah.
Yeah. The other 1 that bog the mind.
So
Russia
invades and does all the horrible.
Crimes against humanity that they have done, raping
of women and all of it, horrors.
Ham hamas does the same thing.
And now,
useful idiots in the western world think israel,
should care for the people of gaza.
And yet,
I've not seen 1
person.
On the Columbia campus,
hold a protest,
demanding
that putin starts sending aid to Ukraine.
What the actual fuck is going on On.
Right. Exactly. That's... I think bad. Beth for
me,
has been the ultimate hypocrisy of the academia.
I'm an
I'm an academic myself. I'm a professor tenure,
and 1 of the top universities in in
the Us myself. We had the same protesters
on our campus.
You know,
to to be fair, my campus, my my
pro provost proposed president have been very supportive
if ukraine. My dean,
you know, we had a a Ukrainian flag
flying in our student union and all of
this.
But I have not seen mass protests
and the support of Ukraine, so the the
the the the what what
what has happened and standing against Russia. And
then
we have a genocide that has been committed
by Hamas on October seventh And then,
you know, it it it was a really
interesting swing. Right? Because,
at the beginning,
everybody saw what Hamas is. Right? So everybody
was sort of with Israel and everything. And
then
when Israel
put it teeth,
and but, you know, said, okay, We're we're
gonna... We're gonna do something.
The the
the retaliation came. And so the Tiktok health
and and and people were brain and they
all started, you know, these mass protests.
And I... What I'm afraid is,
when we give enough weapons and enough power
and strength to Ukraine,
and Ukraine hits Russia hard
and hits Russian territory,
which they should.
I mean, or we're gonna see the same
protest, defending Russian
Russians
on the campuses.
It's not not is that we're gonna... We
we're gonna see is
being sorry for the Russian people because they're
so being, you know,
attacked by the Ukrainian that season and all
that. Is that what gonna see? We could.
And I'll say,
the horrible thing that's in my mind that
I wish I didn't say.
They would for sure say that if the
Russians were brown or black.
Right What why why don't Americans give a
fuck about
That's a ukrainians. Why don't they care?
Because they're white? Hashtag no jews. No news.
How many Ukrainians have died in the last
2 and a half years roughly Roman?
I don't wanna talk about. Okay.
A shocking,
stunning,
horrifying,
un
number.
Yeah. A sovereign nation who did nothing wrong.
And you could say Ukraine had its problems
and there's this Sure. Whatever. As we all
do right.
That's got nothing to do with nothing.
Right?
Ukrainians and Ukrainian government
did nothing.
0, not a, nothing for this. Is a
matter of fact,
the Ukrainians
deserve tremendous
applause, tremendous support.
I've spent my entire career over 35 years
in the technology
industry.
Ukraine.
It is a hotbed
of amazing, technology talent, amazing
engineering talent, Incredible
technology, incredible software capability and growing at the
time.
Entrepreneurship, technology
entrepreneurship in Ukraine.
Expanding,
growing. And so you have a incredibly productive
society with a s history, beautiful
architecture some of the most wonderful walking cities
in the world,
food,
culture,
music,
and and a and a and a thriving
economy.
That's participating in some of the most advanced
areas of of business and innovation and technology
the world was gonna pick pick in that
vehicle continue your thought, but this is exactly
right. I think this is the part of
Ukraine that maybe it's not being talked about
enough.
But, you know, we...
Even Elon musk, who is, you know,
I have a low hated
relationship with that guy. But, basically,
even him who is
and not been the biggest friend of Ukraine
for the past years. When he was asked
what's the best engine for the spacecraft?
Around the world. He said the number 1
is his Spacex, which is his company. And
the next 1 is Ukrainian engines.
You know, when
when we talk about the biggest
It expansion... The top 5 companies of the
United States, Google,
Microsoft, the Apple,
they all have Ukrainian
footprint.
The founders,
they all have a Ukrainian roots. So, And
I don't wanna just brag on that saying,
you know, Ukraine is everywhere. Nope. It's not,
but the point is that there are some
brilliant
1 of the most educated countries in Europe
in Europe.
In terms of the universities for capital, we
have 2 and a half times more universities
per capita than Great Britain.
So basically, the point is that, you know,
it's a very well educated
very talented people
that want to,
you know, they want to live their life
separately from Soviet Union from Russia from communism
and
you know, and In in that sense, I
mean you tell me?
I've done business with Ukrainians for years.
I don't find them to be any different
from Americans in that regard. What what do
they want?
They want a great society. They want peace.
They want beautiful art, beautiful
architecture. They want their families to be successful.
They want entrepreneurship. They want innovation. They want
opportunity.
They want a strong growing economy.
And and this is the other thing I
don't understand about
what's happening in the world right now.
If you just look at the country, the
society that Russia built post world War 2.
And then you look at the country in
the society,
that Ukraine has built. That Checklist Slovakia has
built that many other former parts of the
you...
Ussr have built. What have they done? They've
gone on to build democracies
where people have equal rights,
where people have opportunity, education, all these things.
Right? And what did Russia should do.
Russia is still
a natural resource based command and control society
where
people have very little opportunity.
Very you know,
I I love the quote by John Mckenna
1 point of time. He said that Russia
is
is a gas pam, pump,
run by mafia. Right? So that's that's all
it. Yeah. My bosses with a gas pipe.
That's exactly right. And Putin,
not only did he continue to do horrible
things to his people. And now his neighbors,
he did nothing to modernize the economy. That
all the natural resources in the world. We
could good for thrust us. Right? I mean,
this is the thing. Imagine Russia being is
a strong country in doing what they're doing
right now. That would be actually horrific your
thing as well. So in in a way,
it's sort of worked for us, but you're
absolutely the right. They did nothing. They didn't
mean thing that Russia has invented in the
past the couple centuries. Nothing. Nothing. And then
you look at Hamas. You look at radical
ji.
You look at the. Well, What what what
legendary things have Palestinians done? And and by
the way, I don't have any problem with
Palestinian people and we know there are great
Russian people. Yeah And they're
millions and millions
of legendary
muslims.
Right? These are the regimes.
Yeah. And the people who support and enable
and empower these fucking regimes. And it all
goes back to where we start, doesn't it.
Yeah.
If you don't stand up to the bully,
all of a sudden, sixth century
barb
Cultures emerge?
Exactly.
So how does this Sand Roman?
What happens? So way this this end is
when once we
realize the truth that you have spoken and
started this whole podcast forecast pro, that
the only way
to real peace, sustained peace, is strength
is when we get our act together,
when we...
Now there is a balance. Right? So we
need to have a piece and we need
to have a strength in terms of our
military and we have a have a strong
democracy.
A strong civic society. There has to be
a balance because when you have a strong
military or,
you need to have it in check. Right?
I mean, you don't want for it to
end up in a pants of 1 idiotic
dictator. So there has to be a very
strong civic society,
very strong. Like us, right? People who are
activists who speaking out freedom of speech, all
of that stuff.
And then you have to have a strong
military. You have to have a strong
police. You have to have a strong
you know,
people as well who are willing to interact
and defend their democracy their freedoms.
And I think that is
it has to be a generational change. As
you said,
the good times give
rise to the weak people. And so we
need to now
understand that these are non good times, and
we need to raise up to the occasion,
and then redefine the way that we view
even our daily life, our world view and
say, well, we need to be different. So
I think that the,
that it will take a generation for to
truly to fix this. You know, it's not
gonna happen spontaneously,
but I think
what Russia Hamas and So on started
is to put us on this path of
recovery, you know, And and I'll tell you
this that 1 of the best ray that
United States has had was after the World
war 2.
That... That's the generation that has
really
made America
what it is today. And we are, you
can call us the generation of proceeds or
whatever, you know, that basically,
need to get out act together, get it
straight on our civic level and on an
international level as a country.
Professor.
Is there anything else you'd like to talk
about?
I think we covered the really good topic.
We can talk
maybe
some other time on many things, you know,
on geopolitical on a lot of other topics
on economics because there's a lot of fascinating
topics. But I really feel that
today, we had a really 1 of the
best
discussions that I had in the while, and
I've spoken to many people. So Christopher, the
great job And I think it's a very
good narrative that we covered. So it would
be a good way to wrap it up.
Okay. By thanking you and thanking American people
and everybody
who is supporting Ukraine, who is standing against
evil who is standing against
dictatorship and standing for freedom democracy
that is
that is exactly what Ukraine are fighting for.
Just for life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
Something
everybody in the United States should well understand.
If people wanna help.
So,
I absolutely wanna help your hospital.
If people wanna help in other ways financially
and other ways.
What should people do?
So I will usually split the help in
3 categories.
The first is the voice.
Raise their awareness.
Spread the
information, find the propaganda,
even this interview, The best thing they can
do is to share this with people.
Let this
conversation be heard with as many people as
possible
because,
it does have,
an impact. It may change a view of
10:20
people, but that will have an avalanche effect.
So that's the first thing. The first thing
is we're fighting the information war, and we
need to,
the only way to do that is,
but by giving the voice to people like
You and me.
A second thing is in terms of our,
kind of
I would say, yeah,
engagement at the level of voting
at the level of actually
going and doing something.
Not just being bystanders standards and saying,
well, we have a screwed up a political
system and then blaming everybody.
And, well, we are part of the problem
because we have not done our
due diligence. We have not researched what kind
of people we elect just the other day,
you know, we have a Ukrainian food festival,
and we had some
people who are running for the local office
judges come over and just engaging with them,
learning what their agenda is and being active,
you know,
that's in in incredibly important. You know, I
I know exactly why I'm gonna be voting
now because I have... I know exactly what
kind of issues are important for me as
a citizen,
and I have done my due diligence learning
who are the people that I think bass
will represent those interests. So I think that's
the second thing. And
the third 1 is, of course, you can
help financially.
Financially, there's a lot of need there in
the right humanitarian need. There's,
support of military. There's not much... We can
do sometimes in terms of the military support.
Right, We cannot provide patriot missiles or, you
know, jab or stuff like that. But what
we can do, we can support the local
Ngos, I am ahead of
Ukrainian and American house. It's an then Joe,
we provided a lot of help to ukraine
throughout the years. I'm also... I've started a
personal fundraising
because I didn't wanna have a conflict of
interest with the organization that I'm actually
sharing as a as a chairman. So I
I wanted to
raise funds to rebuild my Alma mater.
So it's a started go fund page just
to be completely transparent
and,
at the Paypal, and all of that is
visible, and I will just literally write a
check to the university because
donating that to Ukraine, you need to go
through the Ukrainian bank, Mono bank or Private
p provide bank, and it's kim... It cannot
be done by the Us citizens. So, basically,
as a result, I just said, hey. Let's
collect money here, and that will just go
to Ukraine. And by the way, when I...
When I give money or when we give
the donations and stuff. We are and cr
incredibly... I'm incredibly sc. So I always check
where this goes, what is bad with this
money
where, you know, I get the receipts basically.
Because, I know that,
especially during the time of before, money can
go the wrong way. And
but that should not stop us. Right? That
course stopping from doing the right thing. So...
And I'll give you those links. Yeah. If
you give me all those links,
Roman, we will put all of that in
the show notes. So whether it's giving to
your Alma mater,
trying to help if there's ways financially to
help with a hospital that was just so
brutally hit
and any other
any other places,
organizations that you think
are gonna make a difference send those, they'll
all be in the show notes for this
episode. Thank you so much. Yeah. God bless,
Roman, and God bless the people of Ukraine.
Thank you so much.
That was the legendary Roman Sierra mehta. To
learn more about Roman and for all the
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