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Thanks for pressing play. If you love the

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Ser magic that can only occur in a

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real conversation, you're in the right place. This

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is Christopher Lock follow you different. The number

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1 real dialogue On cast for business leaders,

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entrepreneurs and category designers with a different mind.

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Our guest today is the legendary Mike Maple

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junior, a trail in the world of Venture

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capital and

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entrepreneurship. As the founder of Flood gate Mike

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has been a driving force behind some of

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the most groundbreaking startups of our time, including

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Twitter lyft and Twitch.

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In this episode, we dive deep into Mike's

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journey and his unique approach to identifying and

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nurturing what he calls pattern breakers.

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Those rare innovators who redefine industries by envisioning

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radically different futures. Mike shares his invaluable insights

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on what it takes to break free from

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the present and create something truly transformative.

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Christopher and Mike explore Mike's new book pattern

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breakers why some startups change the future which

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serves as a guide for founders to harness

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inflection and insights to achieve exponential success.

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Mike discusses the important of living in the

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future and moving past traditional logic to embrace

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bold, high risk, high reward opportunities,

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He emphasizes the importance of leveraging

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inflection and insights to create transformative

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value rather than just incremental improvements.

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This episode is a masterclass

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in visionary thinking and offers invaluable lessons for

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entrepreneurs and investors alike.

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Join us as we uncover the principles that

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have made Mike Maple junior, a legendary figure

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in venture capital and a true architect of

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innovation.

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Are you fed up with blending into crowded

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markets? Well, then it's time to join the

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category pirates and carve out your own uncharted

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territory.

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The category pirates newsletter is your treasure map

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for mastering category design.

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Learn from the elite, the pioneers of category

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design on how to frame, name and claim

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your very own niche. H your sales and

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navigate towards untapped potential.

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Subscribe to the category Pirates newsletter category pirates

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dot com and join the crew redefining market

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categories.

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Don't settle for being just another competitor at

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become a true category designer in une earth

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the hidden treasures waiting for you, set sail

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with the category pirates today at category pirates

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dot com.

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And now as Joey Ra ramon said, hey

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h, let's go.

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Well Mike Maple.

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It's great to see you. It's great to

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see you, my friend.

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And I just gotta say

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congratulations. Thanks.

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And I take full credit if particularly given

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the success that I know

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pattern breakers is going to be. I take

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full credit.

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Okay? I'll get you you're you're... You you

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get at least a big part of it.

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Well, I feel like

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there was there were a handful of people

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you being 1 of them who nudge and

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some really pushed

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me and us to write. And and, ultimately,

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of course, we did. And, you know, it's

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now been 8 years for me personally. And

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I can't imagine my life now

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not being writer.

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And I wanted you to write this book

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for so long,

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and you were just busy. Yeah. You know,

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helping entrepreneurs.

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And so I remember when you when you

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told me, you were actually gonna do it.

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Yep. I was like, alright. Yeah. Awesome Yeah.

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I think also, I mean, this is where

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p Peter Z played a huge role. Right?

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So he teaches at the Stanford Gs b

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And he was really good at sort of

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keeping me on task and reminding me that

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there was a deliverable that needed to be

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shipped someday.

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And so he he was really good about

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both

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keeping us focused and keeping us

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making progress forward, but he was also really

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good about sort of

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applying some academic rigor, right, to the to

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the ideas and not just not just me

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ex

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coming up with stuff. But, like, okay, How

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do how do how does that really get

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framed and how's that

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academically correct and grounded and not just your

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story about something?

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Yeah. Absolutely.

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You know, it's it reminds me of the

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legendary, quote, real engineer ship.

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Yes. Well, real writers published.

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Yeah. That's right. It's right as a verb.

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Turns out.

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So

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let's get into it.

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There's so many

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big ideas here.

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So maybe let's just start at the top.

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Yep. The term pattern breaker

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seems somewhat obvious, somewhat self evident.

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However,

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Let me ask you the question.

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Mike Maple.

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What's a pattern breaker?

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A pattern breaker in the words of Christopher

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Lock?

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Is someone who forces a choice not a

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comparison.

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And so,

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pattern breakers understand

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that business is never a fair fight.

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The only question is who fights unfair.

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And the default is the incumbents fight unfair.

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The default is the status quo fights unfair.

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And if a pattern breaker is going to

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win, the startups gonna win,

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they win not by persistent compounding, they win

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not by

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thinking of the present or the future as

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an extension of the present.

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They win not by forecasting forward from what's

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happened.

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They win by proposing a radically different future

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by denying the premise of the rules

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by showing up in a way that dis

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disoriented incumbents.

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It turns out a startup capitalist is a

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different kind of capitalist. A startup capitalist doesn't

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create value through persistent compounding because they have

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nothing to compound. Startup up capitalist creates value

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by

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disrupting the current patterns of thinking feeling and

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acting that exists in the world

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and imposing a different set.

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That ultimately become the acknowledged

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conventional wisdom.

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Start out as a heresy, and they become,

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in and and this has been true in

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other fields too like science, you know, when

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who was at Cop said he thought that

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the

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the earth orbit around the sun,

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the Catholic church put him under house arrest

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for the rest of his life and didn't

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come around. And didn't the end up going

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crazy?

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Well, well, he kinda of pretended that he

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wasn't sure after all. Right? But, like, you

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have a pretty good incentive to do that

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when the when the pope's like, well, I'm

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gonna kill you if you don't if you

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don't kind of pipe down a little bit

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here.

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Nothing like a

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ben loving pope. Yeah. So so, you know,

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so what I've learned is that,

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the first big aha, and it's very related,

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you know, in in many ways, we're kind

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of

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spiritually,

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of the same

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stranded Dna. Right? And that is that,

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ultimately, you can compete by being better and

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by

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running up the score and by

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doing the things that embody your competitive advantage

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consistently well over time, and that's what warren

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Buffett usually invest in.

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And he always says rule number 1 don't

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lose money, rule number 2. Don't forget rule

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number 1. And so when Buffett buys a

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stock or when most of us buy a

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stock in fortune 500 company,

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We're betting that it is going to persistent

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compound longer and more intensely than most of

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the rest of the world thinks.

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Whereas when we're investing in a startup,

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we're not saying rule number 1 is don't

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lose money. We're saying rule number 1 is

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don't pass on Airbnb.

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Because you can you could only lose a

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few hundred thousand dollars, but but you made

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6000 times your money. If you did the

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seed round of Airbnb.

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And so it's just a different form of

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capitalism, a different model of value creation. And

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and so part of this book was understanding

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what is startup capitalism really? And and like,

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when does the entrepreneur

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have the chance to fight unfair? What forces

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does that founder or harness?

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And how are those forces different from how

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normal companies operate? And then that's where the

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idea of pattern breaking came into play is

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like you have to

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you have to have something radically different to

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have a chance to break the pattern.

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Because if it's too much like, you know,

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human beings are conditional like things. And so

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if everybody likes your idea, if it's too

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much like what's come before,

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you're an extension of the incumbents that you're

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an extension of the current rules.

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Only by polarizing people,

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can you change the future? Right? And so

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that was the the pattern breaker idea came

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from that? Force the choice, not a comparison.

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Right?

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Yeah. So, like, and and there's a recent

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example of a pattern breaking product is the

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Tesla cyber truck. And and, you know, a

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lot of people say the cyber truck is

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ridiculous.

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And and I don't I don't really know

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what I think of the cyber truck yet.

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But but 1 thing I do know, nobody

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after seeing the cyber truck says, how does

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that compare to an f 01:50?

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Right? Or how does that compare to a

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Chevy silverado or a Gmc Yukon. Right? It

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And they don't go and test drive the

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for f 01:50 lightning, which is the electric

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1, and then test drive and do a

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comparison.

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That doesn't happen.

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That's right. That's right. And, you know, the

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same thing happened with the original Tesla Roadster.

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It would have failed in any normal conventional

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comparison against like a porsche of 09:11. It

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seats weren't as good. It wasn't as fast

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at the time It didn't have as good

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of a radio.

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Did have luxury fit and finish like a

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Porsche had,

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but nobody when they saw the Tesla Roadster

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said, well, so how does that compare to

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a 09:11. It was sort of like

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live in my future or don't, but you

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can't reconcile the 2. Right? There they they

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can't be compared with each other. They defy

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comparison.

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And so a great pattern breaking idea. So

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a pattern breaking powder does 2 things.

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They have a pattern breaking idea

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that

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can't be reconciled with anything that's come before.

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And so when I started work on this

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book, the first half was,

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how do you take the idea of thinking

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different?

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And make that more tangible?

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Like, what do... What does Brian C really

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do? What did Travis Call and the lift

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founders really do? What did the jack Do

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and I haven't real... Williams really do that

273
00:10:13,861 --> 00:10:15,060
embodied thinking different.

274
00:10:15,700 --> 00:10:17,138
And then and then the second thing they

275
00:10:17,138 --> 00:10:18,976
have to do that's subtle as well as

276
00:10:18,976 --> 00:10:20,515
they have to act different. So

277
00:10:20,829 --> 00:10:22,743
Lyft had to launch an illegal service in

278
00:10:22,902 --> 00:10:24,817
San Francisco because if they'd asked for permission,

279
00:10:24,976 --> 00:10:26,890
the government would have outlawed it. And so

280
00:10:26,890 --> 00:10:28,486
they had to have a service that people

281
00:10:28,486 --> 00:10:30,534
fell in love with before they could negotiate

282
00:10:30,654 --> 00:10:31,292
with a government.

283
00:10:31,850 --> 00:10:33,605
Not not to interrupt you, But I remember

284
00:10:33,605 --> 00:10:35,222
at about that time

285
00:10:35,599 --> 00:10:37,912
in the development of Silicon Valley in the

286
00:10:37,912 --> 00:10:40,399
tech industry. I remember having a conversation with

287
00:10:40,399 --> 00:10:41,034
you, and you said,

288
00:10:42,225 --> 00:10:44,130
there seems to be a large number of

289
00:10:44,130 --> 00:10:46,273
founders who walk into my office and sort

290
00:10:46,273 --> 00:10:47,543
of very early on, say,

291
00:10:48,274 --> 00:10:49,870
I'm not sure this is a hundred percent

292
00:10:49,870 --> 00:10:50,668
legal bud.

293
00:10:51,386 --> 00:10:52,264
Yes. Yeah.

294
00:10:53,141 --> 00:10:55,535
I got a lot of Uber changed laws.

295
00:10:55,948 --> 00:10:57,851
Yeah. Yeah. Because they were illegal. And so

296
00:10:58,010 --> 00:10:59,437
I I was getting pitched by a lot

297
00:10:59,437 --> 00:11:00,864
of people said, first of all, just so

298
00:11:00,864 --> 00:11:02,292
you know, I'm not sure this is legal

299
00:11:02,292 --> 00:11:03,323
or I'm pretty sure it's not.

300
00:11:04,291 --> 00:11:05,881
And then I had 1 guy pitch me

301
00:11:05,881 --> 00:11:07,312
who wanted to over overthrow Cuba.

302
00:11:08,028 --> 00:11:09,220
And I was like, I don't really see

303
00:11:09,220 --> 00:11:11,049
a business model for that, but, like, hey,

304
00:11:11,208 --> 00:11:11,708
I'm

305
00:11:12,019 --> 00:11:14,651
I'm interested. So I I certainly you help

306
00:11:14,651 --> 00:11:16,406
you don't finance foreign wars?

307
00:11:17,044 --> 00:11:18,878
No. I... I try not to. So so

308
00:11:18,878 --> 00:11:20,952
far, that hasn't been on my agenda. But,

309
00:11:21,032 --> 00:11:23,115
you know, would I started it wanna start

310
00:11:23,115 --> 00:11:24,545
looking. I didn't think I was gonna fund

311
00:11:24,545 --> 00:11:26,927
illegal products either. But, you know, sometimes,

312
00:11:27,404 --> 00:11:28,675
you have to get the law changed.

313
00:11:29,628 --> 00:11:30,080
Now

314
00:11:30,439 --> 00:11:31,398
1 of the things you and I have

315
00:11:31,398 --> 00:11:33,895
talked a lot about, you've said it publicly

316
00:11:34,114 --> 00:11:36,111
a lot. You you've written about it.

317
00:11:37,324 --> 00:11:40,136
Is this idea that to be a successful

318
00:11:40,274 --> 00:11:43,303
pattern breaker to be a successful entrepreneur trader

319
00:11:43,303 --> 00:11:45,398
category. There. Anybody who

320
00:11:46,350 --> 00:11:48,610
changes the world in any kind of a

321
00:11:49,069 --> 00:11:50,829
exponential way as opposed to an incremental way.

322
00:11:51,549 --> 00:11:53,870
The phrase you've used is, I I believe,

323
00:11:54,429 --> 00:11:55,490
non consensus

324
00:11:55,884 --> 00:11:56,361
and right.

325
00:11:57,556 --> 00:12:00,104
Yes. So so pop the hood on non

326
00:12:00,104 --> 00:12:02,652
consensus and right for me, Mike. And so

327
00:12:02,652 --> 00:12:04,267
it kinda flows from

328
00:12:04,580 --> 00:12:06,179
it it's interesting. It's a...

329
00:12:06,899 --> 00:12:08,660
It it is what I would call the

330
00:12:08,660 --> 00:12:09,160
investment

331
00:12:10,019 --> 00:12:10,519
rendering

332
00:12:10,899 --> 00:12:12,919
of your points when you talk about category

333
00:12:13,059 --> 00:12:14,453
design. Right? So

334
00:12:15,148 --> 00:12:17,162
the basic idea is that

335
00:12:17,938 --> 00:12:20,090
only by being radically different, can you make

336
00:12:20,090 --> 00:12:20,887
a radical difference?

337
00:12:22,173 --> 00:12:24,708
And you can't make a radical difference by

338
00:12:24,708 --> 00:12:25,897
being part of the consensus.

339
00:12:26,531 --> 00:12:28,195
Right? 2 things. First of all,

340
00:12:29,003 --> 00:12:30,595
Is it wrong for 1 man to love

341
00:12:30,595 --> 00:12:31,072
another man?

342
00:12:32,743 --> 00:12:34,255
Second all, Can you say that first part

343
00:12:34,255 --> 00:12:35,846
again? I just wanna hear it a second

344
00:12:35,846 --> 00:12:36,006
time?

345
00:12:36,738 --> 00:12:39,529
Yeah. Only by being radically different, can you

346
00:12:39,529 --> 00:12:40,487
make a radical difference?

347
00:12:41,284 --> 00:12:43,278
And so so, like, and people don't understand

348
00:12:43,278 --> 00:12:45,272
this. It's not just true of marketing. It's

349
00:12:45,272 --> 00:12:45,910
true of life.

350
00:12:46,563 --> 00:12:48,635
Like, let's just take stock picking.

351
00:12:49,432 --> 00:12:51,106
If you and I both buy the index,

352
00:12:51,903 --> 00:12:54,546
we're gonna basically perform the same. Now we

353
00:12:54,546 --> 00:12:56,772
may perform well because the stock market may

354
00:12:56,772 --> 00:12:58,361
perform well. We may get rich because the

355
00:12:58,361 --> 00:12:59,395
stock market does well,

356
00:13:00,189 --> 00:13:02,177
but we're not going to do meaningfully better

357
00:13:02,177 --> 00:13:03,942
than each other. We're gonna do roughly the

358
00:13:03,942 --> 00:13:05,457
same as everybody else who buys the index.

359
00:13:05,696 --> 00:13:07,370
And so now let's say, you say Maple,

360
00:13:07,529 --> 00:13:08,964
you know what I'm gonna go buy some

361
00:13:08,964 --> 00:13:10,558
nvidia stock because I think Nvidia is a

362
00:13:10,558 --> 00:13:11,036
great company.

363
00:13:12,088 --> 00:13:13,922
It's not just that you think Nvidia is

364
00:13:13,922 --> 00:13:14,720
a great company,

365
00:13:15,278 --> 00:13:18,069
you think Nvidia is going to outperform the

366
00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:20,382
index, given the price that it's already priced

367
00:13:20,382 --> 00:13:20,621
at.

368
00:13:21,432 --> 00:13:23,898
And that price is set by supply and

369
00:13:23,898 --> 00:13:25,887
demand and by everybody who participate in the

370
00:13:25,887 --> 00:13:27,398
market of the wisdom of the crowds. And

371
00:13:27,398 --> 00:13:27,898
so

372
00:13:28,367 --> 00:13:29,952
1 or 2 things is true, you're either

373
00:13:29,952 --> 00:13:30,824
right or you're wrong.

374
00:13:31,696 --> 00:13:33,756
If you're right, you'll outperform the index. If

375
00:13:33,756 --> 00:13:36,071
you're wrong, you'll under perform the index. And

376
00:13:36,071 --> 00:13:38,558
so you have to depart from the consensus

377
00:13:38,694 --> 00:13:41,396
to be a radical performer. By definition true

378
00:13:41,396 --> 00:13:44,591
in everything everything field of endeavor, of human

379
00:13:44,591 --> 00:13:46,499
endeavor. It's true in science. It's true in

380
00:13:46,499 --> 00:13:49,680
art, You know, Picasso with Cub. Right? Nobody

381
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:51,293
said, how does that compare to

382
00:13:51,604 --> 00:13:53,836
Van go because it couldn't be compared. Couldn't

383
00:13:53,836 --> 00:13:56,467
be reconciled. Well, and the interesting thing about

384
00:13:56,707 --> 00:13:59,976
Picasso, like, for years, he chased Van go.

385
00:14:00,868 --> 00:14:02,305
Yes. And he got nowhere.

386
00:14:02,943 --> 00:14:05,257
Right? And somewhere along the line, like, if

387
00:14:05,257 --> 00:14:06,614
you look at his early work, it's very

388
00:14:06,614 --> 00:14:08,050
clear and if you read about his life,

389
00:14:08,384 --> 00:14:09,899
and somewhere along the line, he said,

390
00:14:11,494 --> 00:14:14,444
maybe different, not better. Yes. And so and

391
00:14:14,444 --> 00:14:16,597
and now, why is that important for startups?

392
00:14:16,756 --> 00:14:16,995
Well,

393
00:14:18,128 --> 00:14:19,884
If you're going to break the pattern,

394
00:14:20,522 --> 00:14:22,597
it's axiom that you have to be different.

395
00:14:22,757 --> 00:14:24,433
Right? Because you're trying to get people to

396
00:14:24,433 --> 00:14:25,891
think feel and act differently

397
00:14:26,284 --> 00:14:27,483
than how they ever had before.

398
00:14:28,202 --> 00:14:30,679
And so better doesn't matter when you're a

399
00:14:30,679 --> 00:14:30,999
startup.

400
00:14:31,878 --> 00:14:32,777
Because better

401
00:14:33,236 --> 00:14:34,115
favors the incumbent.

402
00:14:35,004 --> 00:14:36,512
If if all you are is better,

403
00:14:37,226 --> 00:14:38,575
why do I wanna take a risk buying

404
00:14:38,575 --> 00:14:40,479
a product from a company that's 80 percent

405
00:14:40,479 --> 00:14:41,986
likely to go out of business? Doesn't it

406
00:14:41,986 --> 00:14:42,462
make sense.

407
00:14:43,272 --> 00:14:45,342
Like, what what needs to happen is I

408
00:14:45,342 --> 00:14:47,672
need to propose a different future

409
00:14:48,127 --> 00:14:50,219
that a subset of humanity

410
00:14:51,408 --> 00:14:52,468
is extraordinarily

411
00:14:53,246 --> 00:14:54,545
emotionally bought into

412
00:14:55,084 --> 00:14:57,002
as an early set of true believers in

413
00:14:57,002 --> 00:14:57,742
that here

414
00:14:58,121 --> 00:14:58,360
insight.

415
00:14:59,254 --> 00:15:00,771
And so in order to bend the Arc

416
00:15:00,771 --> 00:15:02,527
of the present to different future, you have

417
00:15:02,527 --> 00:15:04,762
to do something radically different. And in order

418
00:15:04,762 --> 00:15:06,518
to be different, you have to depart from

419
00:15:06,518 --> 00:15:07,156
the consensus.

420
00:15:08,209 --> 00:15:09,723
And in order to be different, you have

421
00:15:09,723 --> 00:15:11,318
to have a product that most people will

422
00:15:11,318 --> 00:15:13,630
dislike, but a few people will just irrational

423
00:15:13,630 --> 00:15:13,789
love.

424
00:15:14,507 --> 00:15:16,420
And, like, it it comes with the territory.

425
00:15:16,994 --> 00:15:18,669
Because if everybody likes your idea,

426
00:15:19,386 --> 00:15:21,221
it's not a good startup up idea. It's

427
00:15:21,221 --> 00:15:23,933
a derivative idea of what somebody else has

428
00:15:23,933 --> 00:15:24,411
come up with.

429
00:15:25,209 --> 00:15:26,405
Hey man. Hallelujah your brother.

430
00:15:28,090 --> 00:15:29,202
Now you have said,

431
00:15:29,837 --> 00:15:31,029
I forget whether this is in the book

432
00:15:31,029 --> 00:15:32,936
or not. And you'll excuse me. Of course,

433
00:15:33,094 --> 00:15:34,445
I've I read the book, of course,

434
00:15:35,414 --> 00:15:36,472
I tried to help

435
00:15:36,848 --> 00:15:39,101
with some of them along way. So

436
00:15:39,557 --> 00:15:41,788
excuse me for forgetting what's in the final

437
00:15:41,788 --> 00:15:42,687
book and what's

438
00:15:42,998 --> 00:15:44,748
in stuff we've talked about We're just been

439
00:15:44,748 --> 00:15:46,498
talking about. It's all mashed. I I don't

440
00:15:46,498 --> 00:15:47,771
know what the fuck I've written either by

441
00:15:47,771 --> 00:15:48,009
the way.

442
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:50,873
So I can't remember this in book or

443
00:15:50,873 --> 00:15:51,404
not, but

444
00:15:52,082 --> 00:15:54,156
you've often said a startup is not a

445
00:15:54,156 --> 00:15:54,555
company.

446
00:15:55,193 --> 00:15:56,948
Yes. And a company is not a startup.

447
00:15:57,825 --> 00:16:00,378
Correct. So so let's dig into that. Because

448
00:16:00,378 --> 00:16:02,465
when you said it, You know, it's like

449
00:16:02,465 --> 00:16:03,681
1 of those things where

450
00:16:04,216 --> 00:16:06,367
somebody says something that you know to be

451
00:16:06,367 --> 00:16:08,756
true, but you never quite put it on

452
00:16:08,756 --> 00:16:09,711
the table that way.

453
00:16:10,523 --> 00:16:12,675
So... Yes. So let let's let's go there

454
00:16:12,675 --> 00:16:15,306
if we could, mike. Sure. So what I

455
00:16:15,306 --> 00:16:17,401
like to say is that a pattern breaking

456
00:16:17,857 --> 00:16:18,357
start

457
00:16:19,467 --> 00:16:20,923
started by startup capitalist

458
00:16:21,460 --> 00:16:23,134
has to break free from the present.

459
00:16:23,693 --> 00:16:26,244
And so there's a breakthrough sequence. It starts

460
00:16:26,244 --> 00:16:27,360
with the insight breakthrough.

461
00:16:28,094 --> 00:16:30,891
And in the insight breakthrough, we're answering a

462
00:16:30,891 --> 00:16:31,530
specific question,

463
00:16:32,409 --> 00:16:34,407
what do we know about the future that

464
00:16:34,407 --> 00:16:36,405
is empowering and not obvious.

465
00:16:37,218 --> 00:16:38,173
And non consensus.

466
00:16:39,049 --> 00:16:41,779
And we want that insight to embody

467
00:16:42,155 --> 00:16:42,655
inflection

468
00:16:43,031 --> 00:16:45,261
because inflection are the asymmetric weapon.

469
00:16:45,753 --> 00:16:48,456
For the startup founder. So an insight that

470
00:16:48,456 --> 00:16:50,523
body's inflection is the first breakthrough.

471
00:16:51,318 --> 00:16:53,544
The second breakthrough is the 1 everybody talks

472
00:16:53,544 --> 00:16:54,736
about, but product breakthrough.

473
00:16:55,229 --> 00:16:57,542
We're trying to get product market fit, And

474
00:16:57,542 --> 00:17:00,174
what we wanna answer is another very specific

475
00:17:00,174 --> 00:17:01,051
but hard question.

476
00:17:01,769 --> 00:17:03,923
What can we uniquely offer that people are

477
00:17:03,923 --> 00:17:04,481
desperate for?

478
00:17:05,293 --> 00:17:07,384
If we have an insight, we have something

479
00:17:07,441 --> 00:17:10,726
unique. Now we have to navigate that insight

480
00:17:11,021 --> 00:17:11,737
to the desperate.

481
00:17:12,469 --> 00:17:14,944
And as we navigate that insight, we hold

482
00:17:14,944 --> 00:17:17,519
firm on the insight, but we can vary

483
00:17:17,578 --> 00:17:20,074
who we sell to or or the specific

484
00:17:20,372 --> 00:17:22,222
implementation of what we sell. And that's what

485
00:17:22,222 --> 00:17:24,213
it means to pivot. And that's why 80

486
00:17:24,213 --> 00:17:25,886
percent of our exit profits have come from

487
00:17:25,886 --> 00:17:26,386
pivot

488
00:17:26,842 --> 00:17:28,993
because we don't evaluate the product for what

489
00:17:28,993 --> 00:17:31,795
it is. We evaluate the insight for how

490
00:17:31,795 --> 00:17:33,864
meaningful it is about the future. And it's

491
00:17:33,864 --> 00:17:36,092
like in basketball, like Bill Walton. Right? You

492
00:17:36,092 --> 00:17:37,922
hold your pivot foot down as you pivot.

493
00:17:38,573 --> 00:17:40,721
And you as you move your body, you're

494
00:17:40,721 --> 00:17:43,425
varying the implementation or you're varying the audience

495
00:17:43,425 --> 00:17:44,459
of that implementation.

496
00:17:45,334 --> 00:17:46,367
So product market fit,

497
00:17:47,178 --> 00:17:49,245
you navigate your insight to the desperate.

498
00:17:50,357 --> 00:17:53,322
And these different breakthroughs transfer

499
00:17:53,696 --> 00:17:54,889
energy from 1 to the next. They have

500
00:17:54,889 --> 00:17:57,365
a multiplier effect. So If I have a

501
00:17:57,365 --> 00:18:00,140
truly unique insight, I'm gonna be truly unique.

502
00:18:00,695 --> 00:18:01,592
If I harness

503
00:18:02,043 --> 00:18:03,019
super powerful

504
00:18:03,549 --> 00:18:06,200
inflection, there will always be someone desperate for

505
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:06,919
that empowerment.

506
00:18:07,399 --> 00:18:09,240
Because if I can offer something that's 10

507
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,000
times better or a hundred times better than

508
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,279
has ever been seen before,

509
00:18:12,934 --> 00:18:15,805
someone's gonna value that advantage, Particularly, if you're

510
00:18:15,805 --> 00:18:17,161
the only person in the world who has

511
00:18:17,161 --> 00:18:19,953
it. And so that's the product market fit

512
00:18:19,953 --> 00:18:21,627
phase is what can we uniquely offer that

513
00:18:21,627 --> 00:18:23,960
people are desperate for. And then the next

514
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,279
breakthrough is the growth breakthrough. And then in

515
00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:27,960
the growth breakthrough, we ask ourselves,

516
00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:29,740
how can we

517
00:18:30,851 --> 00:18:31,351
massively,

518
00:18:32,044 --> 00:18:32,544
rapidly

519
00:18:33,317 --> 00:18:35,703
penetrate the category of the future that we're

520
00:18:35,703 --> 00:18:37,078
designing at scale

521
00:18:37,389 --> 00:18:39,783
as soon as possible and as predictable way

522
00:18:39,783 --> 00:18:40,422
as possible.

523
00:18:41,220 --> 00:18:43,055
How do we harmon all of our growth

524
00:18:43,055 --> 00:18:45,391
gears so that we could get predictable growth

525
00:18:45,624 --> 00:18:48,016
how do we grow not by spending money

526
00:18:48,016 --> 00:18:50,169
on marketing programs to cover the gaps in

527
00:18:50,169 --> 00:18:52,720
our value, but instead s indicating the truth

528
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,450
of our value because we found the desperate

529
00:18:54,648 --> 00:18:55,839
all we have to do is teach people

530
00:18:55,839 --> 00:18:57,190
to buy, all we have to do is

531
00:18:57,190 --> 00:19:00,446
syndicate the truth. And so that's the breakthrough

532
00:19:00,446 --> 00:19:01,717
sequence and it's a little bit like a

533
00:19:01,796 --> 00:19:04,220
Newton's cradle. If you have a really powerful

534
00:19:04,356 --> 00:19:06,346
insight, more power is transferred to the product

535
00:19:06,346 --> 00:19:08,575
market fit phase. And if you have super

536
00:19:08,575 --> 00:19:10,667
freaking strong product market fit more

537
00:19:10,979 --> 00:19:13,451
more energy is transferred to the growth stage.

538
00:19:13,929 --> 00:19:16,401
And if you're getting it right, you're penetrating

539
00:19:16,401 --> 00:19:19,213
this category, just tearing through it at incredible

540
00:19:19,272 --> 00:19:19,511
speed.

541
00:19:20,243 --> 00:19:22,309
And, you know, that's what the breakthrough sequence

542
00:19:22,309 --> 00:19:24,693
looks like. And that's how the pattern breaking

543
00:19:24,693 --> 00:19:27,395
founder escapes the gravitational pull the present. That's

544
00:19:27,395 --> 00:19:28,848
how they escape the rules

545
00:19:29,158 --> 00:19:31,776
that govern current competition, and that's how it

546
00:19:31,776 --> 00:19:33,680
they cause come to say, what the hell

547
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,664
was that? What just... It's like an asteroid

548
00:19:35,664 --> 00:19:37,012
just came out of nowhere and hit the

549
00:19:37,012 --> 00:19:39,095
earth I was a dinosaur and life was

550
00:19:39,095 --> 00:19:40,447
good, but now the only guys that are

551
00:19:40,447 --> 00:19:43,072
gonna survive them are mammals after this asteroid

552
00:19:43,072 --> 00:19:45,951
hit. And so, like, that's what we're really

553
00:19:45,951 --> 00:19:46,746
looking for here.

554
00:19:47,542 --> 00:19:48,280
And so

555
00:19:48,894 --> 00:19:50,746
part of why Wrote this book was

556
00:19:51,534 --> 00:19:53,049
a couple things. First of all, 80 percent,

557
00:19:53,129 --> 00:19:54,804
my exit profits came for pivot. So I

558
00:19:54,804 --> 00:19:56,080
thought, maybe I was just a lucky fool,

559
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:57,515
and this is all random, and I didn't

560
00:19:57,515 --> 00:19:58,632
know what I was doing, and I should

561
00:19:58,632 --> 00:20:00,466
just retired for before. I got exposed.

562
00:20:01,118 --> 00:20:02,467
But the other thing is I wanted to

563
00:20:02,467 --> 00:20:03,817
help fad. I that every day.

564
00:20:04,690 --> 00:20:06,436
That's why I start taking people, you know

565
00:20:06,436 --> 00:20:08,047
listen. I don't have a Ged.

566
00:20:08,673 --> 00:20:10,736
I have dis fuck it like because I'm

567
00:20:10,736 --> 00:20:12,086
just gonna expose myself.

568
00:20:12,879 --> 00:20:14,864
Well, I'm I'm more concerned in the opposite

569
00:20:14,864 --> 00:20:17,185
direction. I'm probably over educated. I probably got

570
00:20:17,185 --> 00:20:18,461
too much of a pe degree, But and...

571
00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:20,693
And you learn over time that doesn't translate

572
00:20:20,693 --> 00:20:22,686
to me and you're smart. Maybe the... Maybe

573
00:20:22,686 --> 00:20:24,041
and you're the opposite of Smart. But,

574
00:20:24,774 --> 00:20:26,769
So then sad note, it makes it interesting

575
00:20:26,769 --> 00:20:29,244
that we're friends. Yeah. I mean, and... But

576
00:20:29,403 --> 00:20:31,659
I I think that, you know, we're pretty

577
00:20:31,718 --> 00:20:33,726
symbolic in terms of how we show up

578
00:20:33,726 --> 00:20:35,475
in the world. Right? And how we look

579
00:20:35,475 --> 00:20:36,747
at things. And it... And I think so

580
00:20:36,747 --> 00:20:38,098
just either like you a lot more than

581
00:20:38,098 --> 00:20:40,165
me. You're you're nice. I'm lot know over

582
00:20:40,245 --> 00:20:40,722
Ras.

583
00:20:41,530 --> 00:20:43,512
Yeah. Oh, well, it's it's a little bit

584
00:20:43,512 --> 00:20:44,330
of a tougher

585
00:20:44,781 --> 00:20:46,604
environment for me these days because these days,

586
00:20:46,763 --> 00:20:48,769
you kinda get ahead a little bit by

587
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,640
not keeping the piece. But but you you

588
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,160
kinda gotta be who you are. Right? You

589
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:54,539
gotta be your best self. And

590
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:56,700
so I'm I'm never gonna be

591
00:20:57,332 --> 00:20:59,559
Keith Boy or Mike Alana or, you know,

592
00:20:59,639 --> 00:21:01,150
some of these guys that shake things up,

593
00:21:01,309 --> 00:21:02,821
but that's just... You just gotta be who

594
00:21:02,821 --> 00:21:04,889
you are. Right? Can't you can't be something

595
00:21:04,889 --> 00:21:05,287
you're not.

596
00:21:05,939 --> 00:21:07,533
But so so the the other thing I

597
00:21:07,533 --> 00:21:09,765
started to work on here, though Christopher was,

598
00:21:10,641 --> 00:21:12,395
it's 1 thing to say, yeah, you need

599
00:21:12,395 --> 00:21:14,877
a radically different idea. But it's another thing

600
00:21:14,877 --> 00:21:17,022
to say, okay, how does that happen? What

601
00:21:17,022 --> 00:21:19,405
is the mechanism for a radically different idea?

602
00:21:19,803 --> 00:21:20,518
You know? So like,

603
00:21:21,329 --> 00:21:23,746
why do some ideas escape

604
00:21:24,285 --> 00:21:25,823
the present and

605
00:21:26,282 --> 00:21:28,694
achieve a radically different future and why do

606
00:21:28,694 --> 00:21:30,451
some ideas not do that? Like, what are

607
00:21:30,451 --> 00:21:32,609
the... What what can be understood about those

608
00:21:32,609 --> 00:21:35,645
ideas? And that's where, you know, inflection and

609
00:21:35,645 --> 00:21:37,660
insights in is this from the future sort

610
00:21:37,660 --> 00:21:39,500
of came in? Right? So I was like,

611
00:21:40,859 --> 00:21:42,700
if founders are able to say,

612
00:21:43,259 --> 00:21:45,180
does my product idea have an inflection?

613
00:21:46,628 --> 00:21:48,718
They're more able to stress test

614
00:21:49,093 --> 00:21:51,080
that idea for its fundamental power.

615
00:21:52,432 --> 00:21:54,196
If they're able to ask do I have

616
00:21:54,196 --> 00:21:56,999
a fundamental non consensus and write insight

617
00:21:57,373 --> 00:21:58,087
about the future?

618
00:21:58,802 --> 00:22:01,026
They're more able to test the potential power

619
00:22:01,026 --> 00:22:03,264
of the idea And if they're able to

620
00:22:03,264 --> 00:22:05,805
validate that the idea itself comes from the

621
00:22:05,805 --> 00:22:07,869
future, rather than them just thinking of a

622
00:22:07,869 --> 00:22:08,266
start,

623
00:22:08,980 --> 00:22:11,069
there there they're intuition about what to build

624
00:22:11,069 --> 00:22:12,269
is a lot more likely to be right.

625
00:22:12,430 --> 00:22:13,710
So the, you know, the first half of

626
00:22:13,710 --> 00:22:14,750
the book was all about,

627
00:22:15,549 --> 00:22:16,849
how do we help founders

628
00:22:17,164 --> 00:22:19,960
avoid pla good sounding ideas that aren't that

629
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:20,120
good.

630
00:22:21,398 --> 00:22:23,236
Because the most dangerous ideas are the ones

631
00:22:23,236 --> 00:22:25,646
that everybody likes and they encourage you to

632
00:22:25,646 --> 00:22:27,560
pursue, and then you're 2 years in, and

633
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,474
it's... You're just kinda getting nowhere, and you're

634
00:22:29,474 --> 00:22:31,867
not excited about it anymore, but now you're

635
00:22:31,867 --> 00:22:34,100
obligated. You got customers, you got employees. You

636
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:36,418
got investors. Now now you do it out

637
00:22:36,418 --> 00:22:39,115
of obligation, not of passion. And so you

638
00:22:39,115 --> 00:22:41,178
wanna eliminate those ideas because the only thing

639
00:22:41,178 --> 00:22:42,368
you never get back is your time.

640
00:22:43,099 --> 00:22:44,694
And then the the other thing you wanna

641
00:22:44,694 --> 00:22:46,927
do is protect the ideas that sound stupid,

642
00:22:47,087 --> 00:22:49,240
but might be good. You know, like, who's

643
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,633
gonna get in a stranger car. That's crazy.

644
00:22:51,872 --> 00:22:54,509
Like, why are people going to want to

645
00:22:54,509 --> 00:22:56,491
express themselves a hundred 40 characters or less,

646
00:22:56,887 --> 00:22:58,552
and there's no revenue model in the road

647
00:22:58,552 --> 00:23:00,138
roadmap. That sounds silly.

648
00:23:00,708 --> 00:23:03,247
But why would anybody start a company where

649
00:23:03,247 --> 00:23:05,231
you live cast your life 24 7 on

650
00:23:05,231 --> 00:23:06,897
the Internet. That's 1 of the dumbest things

651
00:23:06,976 --> 00:23:07,373
I've ever heard.

652
00:23:08,103 --> 00:23:10,092
But all of those ideas were worthy of

653
00:23:10,092 --> 00:23:12,637
pursuing because all of those ideas embody those

654
00:23:12,637 --> 00:23:15,198
types of powers that I'm describing. And you

655
00:23:15,198 --> 00:23:17,033
don't necessarily have to know how the dots

656
00:23:17,033 --> 00:23:19,606
will forward connect? You just need to know

657
00:23:19,664 --> 00:23:22,217
is this is this future worth exploring. Is

658
00:23:22,217 --> 00:23:25,262
this is this territory of the future worth

659
00:23:25,262 --> 00:23:25,661
inhabit,

660
00:23:26,299 --> 00:23:29,669
and count on my entrepreneurial skills right to

661
00:23:30,046 --> 00:23:31,264
find that by

662
00:23:31,641 --> 00:23:33,395
navigating the insight to the desperate,

663
00:23:33,967 --> 00:23:35,476
And then the the the second half is,

664
00:23:35,635 --> 00:23:37,622
you know, it's not enough to be right

665
00:23:37,622 --> 00:23:38,972
about the future. It's not enough to have

666
00:23:38,972 --> 00:23:41,450
a powerful idea about the future. You've gotta

667
00:23:41,450 --> 00:23:43,438
move other people to that different future. You

668
00:23:43,438 --> 00:23:45,266
know? If you're if you're Elon Musk, you're

669
00:23:45,266 --> 00:23:46,856
sitting there with a cyber truck in the

670
00:23:46,856 --> 00:23:49,082
future, and you're not gonna sell many cyber

671
00:23:49,082 --> 00:23:50,138
trucks unless

672
00:23:50,528 --> 00:23:51,960
you convince a lot of people,

673
00:23:52,676 --> 00:23:54,427
I believe what he believes. I wanna move

674
00:23:54,427 --> 00:23:56,735
to that different future. And so... And and

675
00:23:56,735 --> 00:23:59,218
to me, like, Another place where our thoughts

676
00:23:59,218 --> 00:24:01,925
are probably pretty S is in some ways,

677
00:24:02,084 --> 00:24:04,950
to me a movement and and category design

678
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:06,955
are 1 in the same. Like, of course.

679
00:24:07,671 --> 00:24:09,819
A category in some ways can be thought

680
00:24:09,819 --> 00:24:11,887
of as the market space. Right, that you

681
00:24:11,887 --> 00:24:12,682
1 day occupy.

682
00:24:13,334 --> 00:24:14,528
But the way I like to think of

683
00:24:14,528 --> 00:24:16,437
it is in this active sense of you're

684
00:24:16,437 --> 00:24:18,745
creating a movement. And and what you're doing

685
00:24:18,745 --> 00:24:20,710
is you're saying, I'm in a different future

686
00:24:21,149 --> 00:24:23,386
this is the different future that someday will

687
00:24:23,386 --> 00:24:26,022
be recognized as the conventional future. But right

688
00:24:26,022 --> 00:24:27,700
now, I'm the only 1 in it. And

689
00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:29,231
so I have to find people who are

690
00:24:29,231 --> 00:24:31,465
predisposed to believe what I believe and spend

691
00:24:31,465 --> 00:24:33,618
no time with anyone else at first. Get

692
00:24:33,618 --> 00:24:35,293
those people to move first 1 at a

693
00:24:35,293 --> 00:24:37,447
time and eventually it starts to accumulate and

694
00:24:37,447 --> 00:24:37,846
accelerate,

695
00:24:38,418 --> 00:24:41,440
And so what happens there, the founder c

696
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,348
creates the future with their early believers.

697
00:24:44,064 --> 00:24:46,370
And over time, as people start to see

698
00:24:46,370 --> 00:24:48,930
the empowering capabilities of that different future, more

699
00:24:48,930 --> 00:24:51,157
and more people start to move to that

700
00:24:51,157 --> 00:24:52,032
future and pretty soon,

701
00:24:52,828 --> 00:24:54,737
you start to feel social pressure not to

702
00:24:54,737 --> 00:24:54,896
move.

703
00:24:55,864 --> 00:24:57,926
And so it's like it's like the difference

704
00:24:57,926 --> 00:24:59,671
between being the first person out on the

705
00:24:59,671 --> 00:25:02,368
dance floor and feel self conscious about it

706
00:25:02,368 --> 00:25:03,185
versus being

707
00:25:03,573 --> 00:25:05,402
the last person still in the chair while

708
00:25:05,402 --> 00:25:06,912
everybody else is dancing. Now you feel kinda

709
00:25:06,912 --> 00:25:08,184
like a do for not being in the

710
00:25:08,184 --> 00:25:10,410
dance. It's a startup up markets are a

711
00:25:10,410 --> 00:25:12,000
lot like that, categories are a lot like

712
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:12,849
that. And so

713
00:25:13,210 --> 00:25:15,609
Whenever somebody tells me they want to engage

714
00:25:15,609 --> 00:25:18,190
in category design, I always start by saying

715
00:25:18,410 --> 00:25:20,329
what movement are you trying to create who's

716
00:25:20,329 --> 00:25:22,089
gonna move first? Why are they gonna move?

717
00:25:22,584 --> 00:25:24,016
And what story are you gonna tell to

718
00:25:24,016 --> 00:25:25,688
get them to move. And so the second

719
00:25:25,688 --> 00:25:26,882
half of the book is all about that,

720
00:25:27,041 --> 00:25:29,110
and then the the the... It goes with

721
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:31,100
the territory that need to be disagreeable in

722
00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:33,668
the right situations because a startup that is

723
00:25:33,668 --> 00:25:35,606
a breakthrough that changes the pattern

724
00:25:36,145 --> 00:25:38,781
fundamentally is a disagreement with the present. And

725
00:25:38,781 --> 00:25:41,269
the status quo has the word status embedded

726
00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:42,780
in it. So this Status quo will fight

727
00:25:42,780 --> 00:25:44,847
back, the present will fight back, and it

728
00:25:44,847 --> 00:25:47,153
won't fight back fair. And so you gotta

729
00:25:47,153 --> 00:25:49,158
decide, do I wanna try to negotiate with

730
00:25:49,158 --> 00:25:51,550
someone I can't negotiate with who's has no

731
00:25:51,550 --> 00:25:54,661
interest in a good faith negotiation, or it's...

732
00:25:54,980 --> 00:25:57,612
Here's my strategy. My future wins and their

733
00:25:57,612 --> 00:25:58,091
future loses.

734
00:25:58,744 --> 00:26:00,525
Right? But, like you have to decide

735
00:26:00,904 --> 00:26:02,045
what you're in it for

736
00:26:02,585 --> 00:26:04,365
because the present will try to

737
00:26:04,904 --> 00:26:05,404
leverage

738
00:26:06,358 --> 00:26:08,818
keeping the peace at your status within the

739
00:26:08,818 --> 00:26:09,794
dominance hierarchy

740
00:26:10,564 --> 00:26:11,857
to cause you to feel

741
00:26:12,389 --> 00:26:14,635
guilty or afraid or

742
00:26:15,660 --> 00:26:16,160
Par

743
00:26:16,695 --> 00:26:18,366
for violating the rules,

744
00:26:19,002 --> 00:26:21,151
violating the conventions, you know, not doing what

745
00:26:21,151 --> 00:26:23,800
you quote unquote should do. All that was

746
00:26:23,857 --> 00:26:24,096
legendary.

747
00:26:25,549 --> 00:26:28,190
I'm reminded years ago, a dear friend of

748
00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:30,349
mine, Nick d jo, god rest his soul,

749
00:26:30,509 --> 00:26:31,650
friend and mentor

750
00:26:32,190 --> 00:26:33,570
said to me, Christopher.

751
00:26:34,844 --> 00:26:37,021
You know why big companies are conservative

752
00:26:38,598 --> 00:26:41,016
because they have something to conserve

753
00:26:41,409 --> 00:26:41,890
That's right.

754
00:26:43,009 --> 00:26:45,009
And and by the way, here's the irony.

755
00:26:45,169 --> 00:26:47,109
A lot of times the very best companies

756
00:26:47,169 --> 00:26:49,809
are therefore the least stable to create breakthroughs.

757
00:26:50,464 --> 00:26:52,382
What what people don't realize is the weakness

758
00:26:52,382 --> 00:26:54,321
in the strength of how good they are

759
00:26:54,460 --> 00:26:55,259
creates a bias.

760
00:26:55,979 --> 00:26:57,657
And so it's the very fact that they

761
00:26:57,657 --> 00:26:59,415
are that good that made them so profitable

762
00:26:59,415 --> 00:27:01,205
that made them so good at the pattern

763
00:27:01,341 --> 00:27:02,079
that they've

764
00:27:02,613 --> 00:27:04,202
embraced sometimes for decades.

765
00:27:05,156 --> 00:27:07,064
To your point, companies are not startups and

766
00:27:07,064 --> 00:27:09,234
the other way around. I mean, some people

767
00:27:09,703 --> 00:27:12,244
For example, have been critical about apple's,

768
00:27:12,642 --> 00:27:15,287
recent announcements and strategy around Ai.

769
00:27:16,216 --> 00:27:18,202
And this may sound funny coming from me

770
00:27:18,202 --> 00:27:19,179
coming from Eddie

771
00:27:19,806 --> 00:27:20,306
but

772
00:27:20,681 --> 00:27:22,771
we believe what they did is really smart

773
00:27:23,781 --> 00:27:24,281
because

774
00:27:24,815 --> 00:27:27,438
we don't look at Apple a 3000000000000

775
00:27:27,438 --> 00:27:29,464
dollar market cap who

776
00:27:29,923 --> 00:27:33,059
company, who I would assert is more important

777
00:27:33,518 --> 00:27:36,075
than the Gdp of a bunch of countries,

778
00:27:37,368 --> 00:27:40,964
Right. I want Apple to be thoughtfully aggressive.

779
00:27:42,163 --> 00:27:44,320
I don't want them behaving like a start.

780
00:27:45,373 --> 00:27:48,241
Always throwing a 40 yard pass. Right? We

781
00:27:48,241 --> 00:27:50,074
rely too much on them. Same thing with

782
00:27:50,393 --> 00:27:52,066
Amazon. Same thing with Microsoft.

783
00:27:52,719 --> 00:27:54,555
You know, same thing with Google. Right? We

784
00:27:54,555 --> 00:27:56,869
want them to be thoughtfully focused on the

785
00:27:56,869 --> 00:27:58,466
future. But at the same time,

786
00:27:59,503 --> 00:28:01,234
we don't want them to do

787
00:28:01,674 --> 00:28:03,272
what the startups that you and I get

788
00:28:03,272 --> 00:28:04,012
involved with

789
00:28:04,391 --> 00:28:06,628
do and how they behave. Yeah. And it's

790
00:28:06,628 --> 00:28:09,346
interesting because I've I've learned that the the

791
00:28:09,346 --> 00:28:09,846
startups

792
00:28:10,637 --> 00:28:13,024
obviously use inflection and insights to change the

793
00:28:13,024 --> 00:28:16,206
future, so can big companies. Right? So a

794
00:28:16,206 --> 00:28:17,454
big company can have

795
00:28:18,531 --> 00:28:20,764
sustaining innovation, which is what they normally do

796
00:28:20,764 --> 00:28:22,758
and probably what they normally should do. That's

797
00:28:22,758 --> 00:28:23,396
what they're good at.

798
00:28:24,113 --> 00:28:26,506
And sustaining innovation could be organic,

799
00:28:27,555 --> 00:28:30,336
you know, the iphone 15 is designed by

800
00:28:30,495 --> 00:28:32,322
Apple, and it's a sustaining innovation.

801
00:28:33,116 --> 00:28:33,934
It can be

802
00:28:34,723 --> 00:28:36,557
purchased with M and A, you know, like,

803
00:28:36,717 --> 00:28:36,876
when,

804
00:28:37,594 --> 00:28:39,131
Microsoft bought blizzard

805
00:28:39,588 --> 00:28:42,699
entertainment. Right? Act activation. Or it can be

806
00:28:43,097 --> 00:28:43,736
through partnering,

807
00:28:44,229 --> 00:28:45,828
which I would argue what Apple's doing with

808
00:28:45,908 --> 00:28:46,467
Open Ai.

809
00:28:47,106 --> 00:28:48,944
And so, like... But if you're Apple,

810
00:28:49,743 --> 00:28:51,502
you're pretty happy with the dynamics of the

811
00:28:51,502 --> 00:28:54,073
smartphone market. You're not trying to upset you're

812
00:28:54,073 --> 00:28:56,065
you're like trying to extend your lead in

813
00:28:56,065 --> 00:28:57,897
smartphones because you're making a ton of money,

814
00:28:58,216 --> 00:29:00,686
the best business ever invented in mankind probably.

815
00:29:01,338 --> 00:29:03,085
And so... But but then on the pattern

816
00:29:03,085 --> 00:29:03,799
breaking side,

817
00:29:04,434 --> 00:29:06,260
you can do organic. Apple did it with

818
00:29:06,260 --> 00:29:08,562
the iphone 1, Amazon did it with Aws.

819
00:29:09,134 --> 00:29:10,253
You can do it with M and a,

820
00:29:11,372 --> 00:29:12,730
meta when they bought Oc,

821
00:29:13,529 --> 00:29:14,488
that would be an example,

822
00:29:15,288 --> 00:29:16,566
or you can do it also,

823
00:29:17,046 --> 00:29:17,685
with partnering.

824
00:29:18,099 --> 00:29:19,140
And so, you know,

825
00:29:20,019 --> 00:29:22,019
what would be an example, Ibm when they

826
00:29:22,019 --> 00:29:23,619
partner with Intel and Microsoft.

827
00:29:24,420 --> 00:29:26,259
Now sometimes, when you do those partnerships, you

828
00:29:26,259 --> 00:29:29,139
lose control of the future. But but you...

829
00:29:29,537 --> 00:29:31,048
I think as a company, you always have

830
00:29:31,048 --> 00:29:33,355
to decide what is the portfolio of bet?

831
00:29:33,609 --> 00:29:35,048
That you're placing and how do you place

832
00:29:35,048 --> 00:29:36,886
those bets and how do you think about

833
00:29:36,886 --> 00:29:38,724
what success looks like and how you staff

834
00:29:38,724 --> 00:29:40,722
them and what expectations you set?

835
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:42,500
And so

836
00:29:42,894 --> 00:29:44,967
we talk about that sum because, there are

837
00:29:44,967 --> 00:29:47,121
some companies that have mastered both at the

838
00:29:47,121 --> 00:29:47,599
same time,

839
00:29:48,396 --> 00:29:49,912
and it's not just tech companies. You know,

840
00:29:50,231 --> 00:29:51,985
lockheed back in the day with Sku works.

841
00:29:52,399 --> 00:29:53,038
Did this right.

842
00:29:53,915 --> 00:29:55,192
It's possible to do,

843
00:29:55,831 --> 00:29:57,986
but it's like, you have different assets and

844
00:29:57,986 --> 00:29:59,742
liabilities when you're con... When you're a big

845
00:29:59,742 --> 00:30:01,515
company. When your Apple, and you wanna have

846
00:30:01,515 --> 00:30:03,274
a pattern breaking product like the iphone,

847
00:30:04,154 --> 00:30:06,394
there's still advantages from your pass that you

848
00:30:06,394 --> 00:30:08,794
wanted to marry with your inflection. You wanna

849
00:30:08,794 --> 00:30:10,952
take 10. You wanna take the ipod. You

850
00:30:10,952 --> 00:30:12,537
wanna take the app store. You want... Well,

851
00:30:12,695 --> 00:30:13,884
they didn't have the app store yet. They

852
00:30:13,884 --> 00:30:16,990
had the I itunes store. Right? You you

853
00:30:16,990 --> 00:30:19,134
wanna take all of those things forward because

854
00:30:19,134 --> 00:30:21,063
you have assets that the rest of the

855
00:30:21,118 --> 00:30:23,500
industry doesn't have. Startups don't have. But you

856
00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:25,539
wanna marry that with inflection like the touch

857
00:30:25,659 --> 00:30:27,655
and like the, you know, the the the

858
00:30:27,655 --> 00:30:30,050
better chips and the location capabilities that started

859
00:30:30,050 --> 00:30:32,365
to evolve the cameras that got better. And

860
00:30:32,365 --> 00:30:33,801
so, you know, when you're a start... When

861
00:30:33,801 --> 00:30:34,360
you're a company,

862
00:30:35,173 --> 00:30:35,832
you wanna

863
00:30:36,209 --> 00:30:39,078
you wanna harness inflection along with your current

864
00:30:39,078 --> 00:30:40,912
assets and combine them in new ways.

865
00:30:41,709 --> 00:30:42,960
Yes. Very much. So

866
00:30:43,799 --> 00:30:44,757
Let's talk about...

867
00:30:45,716 --> 00:30:48,353
Wanna go circle back to this idea of,

868
00:30:49,073 --> 00:30:51,730
creating different futures. This is language that

869
00:30:52,283 --> 00:30:54,193
the collective we have been using for a

870
00:30:54,193 --> 00:30:54,511
while.

871
00:30:55,227 --> 00:30:56,125
Yep. And

872
00:30:56,898 --> 00:30:58,092
thanks to you.

873
00:30:58,729 --> 00:31:00,400
When we talked to entrepreneurs when we work

874
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:01,037
with entrepreneurs,

875
00:31:01,769 --> 00:31:03,609
We will often do an exercise that sort

876
00:31:03,609 --> 00:31:04,490
of goes like this?

877
00:31:05,369 --> 00:31:07,289
We'll talk about their b eggs. They're big

878
00:31:07,289 --> 00:31:08,329
hairy audacious goals,

879
00:31:08,970 --> 00:31:10,730
And what's the difference they wanna make in

880
00:31:10,730 --> 00:31:13,134
the world. What's the problem they wanna solve?

881
00:31:13,453 --> 00:31:15,601
Why does that problem matter? To whom does

882
00:31:15,601 --> 00:31:17,829
matter? All of that good shit? And then

883
00:31:17,829 --> 00:31:18,386
we say,

884
00:31:19,676 --> 00:31:21,509
and this is right out of Mike Maple.

885
00:31:22,785 --> 00:31:25,415
Most people situate their brain and the mental

886
00:31:25,415 --> 00:31:26,691
scaffolding they use.

887
00:31:27,660 --> 00:31:30,861
When they think about the future is mentally

888
00:31:30,997 --> 00:31:32,053
they're in the present

889
00:31:32,665 --> 00:31:33,721
and they're looking

890
00:31:34,174 --> 00:31:34,674
forward

891
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:36,478
forecasting.

892
00:31:37,289 --> 00:31:40,242
Yep. Well, the exercise that we now often

893
00:31:40,242 --> 00:31:42,078
do, say okay. Let's take the B h.

894
00:31:42,317 --> 00:31:44,712
Let's take our Po. We thought about the

895
00:31:44,712 --> 00:31:45,531
mega headwind

896
00:31:46,003 --> 00:31:46,742
and tailwind

897
00:31:47,117 --> 00:31:48,788
because you wanna be using those things to

898
00:31:48,788 --> 00:31:50,140
your advantage. Right?

899
00:31:50,776 --> 00:31:53,178
Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. All that we write down

900
00:31:53,178 --> 00:31:54,773
all the things that we believe will be

901
00:31:54,773 --> 00:31:57,404
different about the future 10 years out, etcetera,

902
00:31:57,563 --> 00:31:59,636
etcetera, etcetera. And we try to do the

903
00:31:59,636 --> 00:32:01,252
opposite. That is to say

904
00:32:02,042 --> 00:32:03,257
stand in the future

905
00:32:04,108 --> 00:32:05,244
and look back

906
00:32:05,618 --> 00:32:08,321
and say, we created this radically different future.

907
00:32:08,639 --> 00:32:10,467
We achieved this awesome b,

908
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:12,955
We're now looking back 10 years,

909
00:32:13,753 --> 00:32:14,791
how did we do it?

910
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:18,543
Yes. And I have found, and again, I'll

911
00:32:18,543 --> 00:32:19,602
credit to you

912
00:32:19,980 --> 00:32:21,851
that that simple

913
00:32:22,308 --> 00:32:24,642
if you will switch mental scaffolding

914
00:32:25,895 --> 00:32:28,446
from... I'm in the present looking forward,

915
00:32:29,099 --> 00:32:31,179
to I'm in the future looking back to

916
00:32:31,179 --> 00:32:31,819
the present.

917
00:32:32,380 --> 00:32:34,400
Right? Because you have said many times

918
00:32:34,859 --> 00:32:36,240
that legendary founders

919
00:32:37,111 --> 00:32:40,605
Legendary creators, legendary innovators are visitors from the

920
00:32:40,605 --> 00:32:42,375
future telling us how it's going to be

921
00:32:42,590 --> 00:32:44,257
and trying to welcome us to that future.

922
00:32:44,908 --> 00:32:45,726
And so

923
00:32:46,260 --> 00:32:47,930
I would if you like Mike, if you

924
00:32:47,930 --> 00:32:48,168
could.

925
00:32:48,963 --> 00:32:50,554
Sort of pop the hood on,

926
00:32:51,429 --> 00:32:52,383
I'm a founder.

927
00:32:53,337 --> 00:32:54,473
I want to

928
00:32:55,181 --> 00:32:57,168
do this back casting. I want to do

929
00:32:57,168 --> 00:33:00,211
this standing in the future, having created an

930
00:33:00,426 --> 00:33:00,926
exponential

931
00:33:01,460 --> 00:33:03,367
outcome for customers around a big problem.

932
00:33:05,058 --> 00:33:06,437
How do I go about

933
00:33:06,895 --> 00:33:07,395
thinking

934
00:33:08,973 --> 00:33:11,370
future back as opposed to present forward?

935
00:33:11,943 --> 00:33:13,937
Yeah. And so here is 1 of the

936
00:33:13,937 --> 00:33:16,648
top lessons I learned, and this has v

937
00:33:16,648 --> 00:33:17,946
me for a long time

938
00:33:19,121 --> 00:33:20,737
that what I learned is that

939
00:33:21,447 --> 00:33:24,546
you want to literally live in it. So,

940
00:33:24,705 --> 00:33:27,646
like, you don't want to imagine you're in

941
00:33:27,646 --> 00:33:29,338
a different future and work backwards

942
00:33:30,283 --> 00:33:32,032
you want to really be there. Right? So,

943
00:33:32,111 --> 00:33:33,780
like, Mark Andre jason when he was at

944
00:33:33,780 --> 00:33:35,847
the University of Illinois in a supercomputer lab,

945
00:33:36,562 --> 00:33:38,788
he was tinkering with the technologies, the Internet,

946
00:33:39,518 --> 00:33:41,109
and he was trying to make the Internet

947
00:33:41,109 --> 00:33:41,825
useful for him.

948
00:33:42,461 --> 00:33:44,314
And so his intuition about what to build

949
00:33:44,371 --> 00:33:46,041
is more... Far more likely to be right.

950
00:33:46,770 --> 00:33:48,434
Because he's building the thing that's missing for

951
00:33:48,434 --> 00:33:50,811
him? And so, like, why is this important?

952
00:33:50,970 --> 00:33:52,737
What I came to realize is that

953
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,400
by living in a different future by tinkering

954
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,640
by getting your hands dirty with what's new

955
00:33:58,640 --> 00:33:58,960
about it,

956
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:01,220
you learn firsthand

957
00:34:01,693 --> 00:34:04,318
the opportunities to break the pattern of thinking

958
00:34:04,318 --> 00:34:07,365
feeling and acting because it is that direct

959
00:34:07,421 --> 00:34:08,797
exposure and experience

960
00:34:09,331 --> 00:34:10,388
that helps you

961
00:34:11,334 --> 00:34:14,035
break the limits of your thinking. And andre,

962
00:34:15,147 --> 00:34:18,265
in his case was fortunate because There were

963
00:34:18,265 --> 00:34:19,625
no limits to his thinking. He didn't know

964
00:34:19,625 --> 00:34:21,304
anything about business. He a college kid.

965
00:34:22,105 --> 00:34:24,344
The the people who thought the Internet was

966
00:34:24,344 --> 00:34:26,265
gonna happen, Thought it was the digital super

967
00:34:26,265 --> 00:34:26,664
highway.

968
00:34:27,398 --> 00:34:29,223
And so they thought Time Warner was gonna

969
00:34:29,223 --> 00:34:30,730
build it or At and T or the

970
00:34:30,889 --> 00:34:32,952
Us government or Microsoft Network or whatever.

971
00:34:33,586 --> 00:34:35,118
But those executives

972
00:34:35,823 --> 00:34:38,124
as experienced they were as much power as

973
00:34:38,124 --> 00:34:38,783
they had

974
00:34:39,315 --> 00:34:41,536
were burdened by the bias of thinking that

975
00:34:41,536 --> 00:34:43,441
the future was gonna be a forward rejection

976
00:34:43,441 --> 00:34:43,997
of the present.

977
00:34:44,807 --> 00:34:46,798
It didn't occur to them that some kid

978
00:34:46,798 --> 00:34:49,824
make minimum wage in supercomputer lab was tinkering

979
00:34:49,824 --> 00:34:51,974
with the future that he was he was

980
00:34:51,974 --> 00:34:54,385
just there. Like, a pocket of the future

981
00:34:54,385 --> 00:34:55,364
visited him

982
00:34:55,664 --> 00:34:58,065
before it visited other people. And so William

983
00:34:58,144 --> 00:34:59,905
Gibson right, the future is already here. It's

984
00:34:59,905 --> 00:35:01,184
just not evenly distributed.

985
00:35:01,759 --> 00:35:02,958
But if you go to a lot of

986
00:35:02,958 --> 00:35:03,517
these people,

987
00:35:04,237 --> 00:35:05,835
you know, this is why I use non

988
00:35:05,835 --> 00:35:07,054
consensus and not Contra.

989
00:35:08,312 --> 00:35:11,681
Contra is contrary to something. And ultimately being

990
00:35:11,681 --> 00:35:14,175
contrary to something is another form of conformity

991
00:35:14,313 --> 00:35:16,865
because it's relative to somebody else's thinking. That's

992
00:35:16,865 --> 00:35:19,338
also what different is different is a comparison

993
00:35:19,338 --> 00:35:21,666
when you say different choose be better. That's

994
00:35:21,666 --> 00:35:23,981
right when you say better, the immediate thing

995
00:35:23,981 --> 00:35:25,657
that goes on in our brain is better

996
00:35:25,657 --> 00:35:26,056
than what?

997
00:35:27,013 --> 00:35:29,021
Exactly. And so so, like, what what you

998
00:35:29,021 --> 00:35:31,329
want and the great founders that I've seen.

999
00:35:31,885 --> 00:35:33,079
When I say, how did you come up

1000
00:35:33,079 --> 00:35:35,386
with this idea, they almost feel guilty.

1001
00:35:36,037 --> 00:35:37,706
They're they're they're they're sort like, well, I

1002
00:35:37,706 --> 00:35:38,977
was living in the future, and I was

1003
00:35:38,977 --> 00:35:40,646
working on this stuff, and I was super

1004
00:35:40,646 --> 00:35:42,712
interested in it and of, you know, of

1005
00:35:42,712 --> 00:35:44,319
course, people were gonna wanna be able to

1006
00:35:44,319 --> 00:35:46,152
browse the Internet because, you know, if you

1007
00:35:46,152 --> 00:35:47,666
looked at the standards of the worldwide web,

1008
00:35:47,825 --> 00:35:49,338
that was the thing that was missing. You

1009
00:35:49,338 --> 00:35:51,410
know, Bob Met ka when he talks about

1010
00:35:51,410 --> 00:35:53,416
designing Ethernet. He's like, Well, I was in

1011
00:35:53,496 --> 00:35:55,249
Xerox Park, I lived in a thai machine.

1012
00:35:55,408 --> 00:35:57,740
Of course, everybody was gonna have w w

1013
00:35:57,957 --> 00:36:00,825
desktop computers with mice. Of course, everybody was

1014
00:36:00,825 --> 00:36:02,989
gonna wanna share a laser printer. Course, these

1015
00:36:02,989 --> 00:36:03,943
computers would be fast.

1016
00:36:04,500 --> 00:36:06,329
Well, the rest of us didn't know that

1017
00:36:06,329 --> 00:36:08,157
yet, But to Bob Met, it was obvious.

1018
00:36:08,396 --> 00:36:09,907
And so I like to say,

1019
00:36:10,956 --> 00:36:12,467
People who live in the future. It's like

1020
00:36:12,467 --> 00:36:14,216
you live in an Oasis. Everybody's living on

1021
00:36:14,216 --> 00:36:17,159
a Sand Dune, and 1 guy wander off

1022
00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:18,192
and finds an Oasis.

1023
00:36:19,323 --> 00:36:20,521
Once you're in the oasis,

1024
00:36:21,079 --> 00:36:23,873
it's no longer a question what's different about

1025
00:36:23,873 --> 00:36:25,869
it. You look around, you're like there's palm

1026
00:36:25,869 --> 00:36:27,465
trees, coconut, there's water,

1027
00:36:27,958 --> 00:36:28,673
This is awesome.

1028
00:36:29,230 --> 00:36:31,376
You're you no longer have to imagine what's

1029
00:36:31,376 --> 00:36:32,965
different about the Oasis and the sand dude.

1030
00:36:33,124 --> 00:36:34,952
And so how do categories get designed,

1031
00:36:35,603 --> 00:36:37,273
that founder comes back to the sand dude

1032
00:36:37,273 --> 00:36:38,864
and says, hey, guys, guess what? There's an

1033
00:36:38,864 --> 00:36:40,773
oasis over there. It's amazing.

1034
00:36:41,568 --> 00:36:42,999
And most people are like, oh, no. I

1035
00:36:43,237 --> 00:36:44,766
I don't think that's Oasis. I think that's

1036
00:36:44,766 --> 00:36:46,202
a mirage. I think you're crazy.

1037
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,675
I'm not going. But a few people say,

1038
00:36:48,994 --> 00:36:50,270
you know, I'll I'll give it a whirl.

1039
00:36:50,509 --> 00:36:51,865
I'll try, and they go over there, and

1040
00:36:51,865 --> 00:36:53,460
they say, holy, Mack. This is amazing.

1041
00:36:54,034 --> 00:36:55,474
Oh, my god. And then more people come

1042
00:36:55,474 --> 00:36:56,994
back and say, dude, you gotta check out

1043
00:36:56,994 --> 00:36:57,554
this Oasis.

1044
00:36:58,114 --> 00:36:58,914
But like, if you're...

1045
00:36:59,875 --> 00:37:01,554
What most people get wrong is they try

1046
00:37:01,554 --> 00:37:02,514
to think of a startup.

1047
00:37:03,249 --> 00:37:04,924
And they don't realize that by doing that,

1048
00:37:05,163 --> 00:37:06,998
they buy into a certain context, which is

1049
00:37:06,998 --> 00:37:08,832
to try to analyze the problems of the

1050
00:37:08,832 --> 00:37:09,072
present.

1051
00:37:09,710 --> 00:37:11,783
What you really wanna do is ask the

1052
00:37:11,783 --> 00:37:13,552
question, have I gotten now of the present.

1053
00:37:13,712 --> 00:37:15,168
Am I living in a

1054
00:37:15,545 --> 00:37:18,835
valid, different future governed by different assumptions

1055
00:37:19,371 --> 00:37:21,045
than most other people living in the present?

1056
00:37:21,140 --> 00:37:22,498
You know, And and there's different ways to

1057
00:37:22,498 --> 00:37:24,016
do that. You know, you can you could

1058
00:37:24,016 --> 00:37:25,375
be at a super supercomputer lab. You could

1059
00:37:25,375 --> 00:37:27,612
be at Xerox Park, but you could also

1060
00:37:27,612 --> 00:37:29,210
be like Todd and Freddie at O,

1061
00:37:29,784 --> 00:37:32,522
and all their early customers were Salesforce,

1062
00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:36,338
cloud early adopters, and they were seeing what

1063
00:37:36,338 --> 00:37:38,655
their problems were in identity management, and other

1064
00:37:38,655 --> 00:37:38,895
things.

1065
00:37:39,469 --> 00:37:41,383
And so they were they were building what

1066
00:37:41,383 --> 00:37:43,297
was missing for the customers that they spent

1067
00:37:43,297 --> 00:37:45,690
every day with. But that... Those... Not all

1068
00:37:45,690 --> 00:37:48,503
customers are equal Those customers were early adopter

1069
00:37:48,561 --> 00:37:50,961
lighthouse customers cloud. Right? And so... But it...

1070
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,549
But in both cases they got out of

1071
00:37:52,549 --> 00:37:53,105
the present.

1072
00:37:54,137 --> 00:37:56,201
And what what happens too often is people

1073
00:37:56,201 --> 00:37:58,265
think of vision like having better bin vernacular.

1074
00:37:58,519 --> 00:37:59,871
They they have the wrong idea about what

1075
00:38:00,030 --> 00:38:02,177
Vision really is. It's it's not about staring

1076
00:38:02,177 --> 00:38:03,472
over the mountains with better.

1077
00:38:04,483 --> 00:38:06,630
It's about getting out of the present and

1078
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:07,982
living in that oasis.

1079
00:38:08,792 --> 00:38:10,780
And learning how life is different in the

1080
00:38:10,939 --> 00:38:12,132
Oasis specifically,

1081
00:38:13,086 --> 00:38:14,619
such that you can now

1082
00:38:15,472 --> 00:38:17,619
understand the new opportunities to create new patterns.

1083
00:38:18,509 --> 00:38:21,217
And so, like, it becomes intuitively obvious to

1084
00:38:21,217 --> 00:38:21,775
the founder,

1085
00:38:22,572 --> 00:38:24,723
what the insight ought be because they're just

1086
00:38:24,723 --> 00:38:26,556
building what's missing. They're not even they're not

1087
00:38:26,556 --> 00:38:28,724
even thinking about it is Oh, what is

1088
00:38:28,724 --> 00:38:30,023
my insight? They're thinking

1089
00:38:30,641 --> 00:38:32,499
in order to get full advantage

1090
00:38:32,958 --> 00:38:34,896
of these empowering capabilities

1091
00:38:35,529 --> 00:38:37,287
there's some missing things that need to be

1092
00:38:37,287 --> 00:38:38,566
built. I'm gonna build those things.

1093
00:38:39,445 --> 00:38:41,704
And I have found normally Mike that

1094
00:38:42,402 --> 00:38:44,880
the person who's saying in doing what you're

1095
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,033
just describing.

1096
00:38:47,526 --> 00:38:48,961
On 1 hand, they might have made a

1097
00:38:48,961 --> 00:38:50,875
choice. I wanna be a founder. I wanna

1098
00:38:50,875 --> 00:38:52,788
be a creator. I wanna be an innovator

1099
00:38:52,788 --> 00:38:53,266
entrepreneur.

1100
00:38:53,839 --> 00:38:55,351
So people are sort of, if you will

1101
00:38:55,351 --> 00:38:57,023
call to stuff. I get that piece.

1102
00:38:58,137 --> 00:38:58,774
That said,

1103
00:38:59,888 --> 00:39:02,435
the vast majority of the legendary ones that

1104
00:39:02,515 --> 00:39:03,413
I know of

1105
00:39:04,595 --> 00:39:05,095
are

1106
00:39:06,657 --> 00:39:09,696
the thing, the mission, what we in category

1107
00:39:09,751 --> 00:39:11,020
design, we call the point of view.

1108
00:39:12,226 --> 00:39:12,941
Owns them.

1109
00:39:13,894 --> 00:39:14,212
Yes.

1110
00:39:15,324 --> 00:39:15,824
So

1111
00:39:16,357 --> 00:39:18,105
and there's 2 examples of this.

1112
00:39:19,235 --> 00:39:21,394
You can be the founder creator of this,

1113
00:39:21,795 --> 00:39:24,114
or if you're curious and you pay attention

1114
00:39:24,114 --> 00:39:25,795
to the right kind of customers,

1115
00:39:26,768 --> 00:39:28,282
you can collaborate. Now let me give you

1116
00:39:28,282 --> 00:39:29,318
2 of my favorites. Quickie.

1117
00:39:30,273 --> 00:39:31,548
1 of my heroes is a guy named

1118
00:39:31,708 --> 00:39:32,447
Shane Mc.

1119
00:39:33,793 --> 00:39:36,098
And Shane is the category designer of what

1120
00:39:36,098 --> 00:39:38,482
today is called frees skiing. K? He didn't

1121
00:39:38,482 --> 00:39:39,912
make it on the Olympic team. He was

1122
00:39:39,912 --> 00:39:41,263
too this. He was too that. Plus he

1123
00:39:41,263 --> 00:39:42,788
was a wack do guy who like to

1124
00:39:42,788 --> 00:39:45,270
drink Jack daniels and wear silly outfits and

1125
00:39:45,405 --> 00:39:48,260
jump off cliffs and and and be very

1126
00:39:48,260 --> 00:39:50,004
child like in his approach to skiing.

1127
00:39:50,733 --> 00:39:53,039
And so when the Us Olympic team shunned

1128
00:39:53,039 --> 00:39:54,630
him. He sort of said, go fuck yourself,

1129
00:39:54,789 --> 00:39:56,300
and I'm gonna I'm gonna go in the

1130
00:39:56,300 --> 00:39:57,890
back country, and I'm gonna jump off these

1131
00:39:57,890 --> 00:39:59,577
things, and I'm gonna be playful. And I'm

1132
00:39:59,577 --> 00:40:01,970
gonna make silly movies and so he goes

1133
00:40:01,970 --> 00:40:04,044
he does all that stuff. And he's always

1134
00:40:04,044 --> 00:40:05,400
thinking about how to have more fun skiing

1135
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,474
and how to do cooler things skiing. And

1136
00:40:07,474 --> 00:40:08,590
then he has this idea.

1137
00:40:09,481 --> 00:40:11,311
He looks at water skis 1 summer.

1138
00:40:12,585 --> 00:40:13,778
And he looks at the size of them

1139
00:40:13,778 --> 00:40:14,972
in the shape with him. And he said

1140
00:40:14,972 --> 00:40:16,245
never really thought about it. And he was

1141
00:40:16,245 --> 00:40:16,404
like,

1142
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:17,836
hey, wait a minute.

1143
00:40:19,530 --> 00:40:21,210
Snow is fucking frozen water.

1144
00:40:23,449 --> 00:40:25,929
So... And I think was Alaska. I might

1145
00:40:25,929 --> 00:40:27,710
be wrong on this, but he takes

1146
00:40:28,264 --> 00:40:31,718
a pair of water skis that he,

1147
00:40:32,814 --> 00:40:34,192
you know, jacks up

1148
00:40:34,650 --> 00:40:37,125
fig did sort of jerry rigs into skis.

1149
00:40:37,538 --> 00:40:39,841
And he starts skiing on them. And then

1150
00:40:39,841 --> 00:40:42,088
he shows up to his sponsor

1151
00:40:42,939 --> 00:40:45,322
Yep. And says, this is what we're doing.

1152
00:40:45,892 --> 00:40:47,639
I believe it was vocal if... If my

1153
00:40:47,639 --> 00:40:49,464
memory is right, but I'm not that smart.

1154
00:40:49,543 --> 00:40:50,734
And that was a lot a... That was

1155
00:40:50,734 --> 00:40:51,766
a lot of Ipa ago.

1156
00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:54,227
And and he's able to convince them.

1157
00:40:55,277 --> 00:40:58,149
So that's like legendary. The second story is

1158
00:40:58,149 --> 00:41:00,063
a very similar 1 that I love equally,

1159
00:41:00,222 --> 00:41:00,962
which is

1160
00:41:01,897 --> 00:41:03,732
there was this rock band back in the

1161
00:41:03,732 --> 00:41:04,210
sixties.

1162
00:41:05,019 --> 00:41:07,238
And they were looking for a particular kind

1163
00:41:07,238 --> 00:41:07,871
of sound.

1164
00:41:08,505 --> 00:41:11,620
Mh. They also had a legendary

1165
00:41:11,929 --> 00:41:14,190
and fucking loud ass

1166
00:41:14,570 --> 00:41:14,889
drummer.

1167
00:41:15,769 --> 00:41:18,250
Okay. So they... For the sound they wanted,

1168
00:41:18,409 --> 00:41:20,489
they needed volume, both to deal with the

1169
00:41:20,489 --> 00:41:20,809
drummer,

1170
00:41:21,542 --> 00:41:23,921
and they they wanted to push amps.

1171
00:41:24,556 --> 00:41:26,697
And so the lead guitar player in this

1172
00:41:26,697 --> 00:41:28,679
band is, like, pushing his amps to the

1173
00:41:28,679 --> 00:41:31,250
edge and adding more cabinets and more speakers

1174
00:41:31,250 --> 00:41:32,609
and he's tinkering and he's tinkering,

1175
00:41:33,170 --> 00:41:34,389
and he can't get

1176
00:41:34,690 --> 00:41:36,289
sound known enough to big enough to compete

1177
00:41:36,289 --> 00:41:38,303
with his drummer. And big enough to create

1178
00:41:38,303 --> 00:41:39,921
the crunch and the power

1179
00:41:40,300 --> 00:41:41,338
that he's looking for.

1180
00:41:42,217 --> 00:41:44,135
So he goes to his local music store.

1181
00:41:44,788 --> 00:41:46,460
And the guy that owns that store's name

1182
00:41:46,460 --> 00:41:46,938
is Jim.

1183
00:41:47,973 --> 00:41:49,008
And he says to gym,

1184
00:41:49,725 --> 00:41:52,034
you gotta build me a giant cabinet, and

1185
00:41:52,034 --> 00:41:54,201
you gotta go to a hundred watts, and

1186
00:41:54,201 --> 00:41:55,637
you gotta do all this stuff. And Jim

1187
00:41:55,637 --> 00:41:58,348
says, that's not gonna work. And and and

1188
00:41:58,348 --> 00:42:00,582
this guy's name is Peter, and Peter says,

1189
00:42:00,821 --> 00:42:02,517
yeah, Jim, but you gotta do it in.

1190
00:42:03,228 --> 00:42:05,378
So Peter convince Jim.

1191
00:42:06,810 --> 00:42:07,947
And that's how

1192
00:42:08,561 --> 00:42:10,869
the who became the loudest rock band in

1193
00:42:10,869 --> 00:42:12,302
the world, Pete Townsend.

1194
00:42:13,590 --> 00:42:16,771
And that's where the marshall app came from,

1195
00:42:17,407 --> 00:42:18,441
Jim marshall.

1196
00:42:20,349 --> 00:42:21,168
And so

1197
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:23,960
There's also in this... I'm leading to a

1198
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,859
question mike. In both those examples,

1199
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:29,659
there's some serendipity

1200
00:42:31,014 --> 00:42:31,414
Mh.

1201
00:42:32,054 --> 00:42:32,554
So

1202
00:42:33,014 --> 00:42:34,795
the innovator category

1203
00:42:35,094 --> 00:42:36,634
designer, pattern breaker

1204
00:42:37,414 --> 00:42:39,734
is pushing for this new innovation.

1205
00:42:40,869 --> 00:42:43,605
And the manufacturers in this case

1206
00:42:43,984 --> 00:42:46,940
have to be open to radically different thinking.

1207
00:42:47,513 --> 00:42:49,977
And you mentioned earlier in our discussion. I

1208
00:42:49,977 --> 00:42:51,726
forgot the exact phrase you said Mike, but,

1209
00:42:51,805 --> 00:42:53,554
like, would... I think you said focus on

1210
00:42:53,554 --> 00:42:54,690
the early believers

1211
00:42:55,478 --> 00:42:55,718
Yes.

1212
00:42:56,675 --> 00:42:58,591
And, you know, in category design, that's called

1213
00:42:58,591 --> 00:42:59,548
the super consumers.

1214
00:43:00,427 --> 00:43:02,123
And the interesting thing is

1215
00:43:03,554 --> 00:43:05,545
If you if you don't ask the customer,

1216
00:43:05,864 --> 00:43:07,855
what would you like us to do, which

1217
00:43:07,855 --> 00:43:09,527
is a pathway to incremental, which is what

1218
00:43:09,527 --> 00:43:10,244
most people do.

1219
00:43:11,041 --> 00:43:12,497
But if you look at

1220
00:43:12,808 --> 00:43:15,358
those early believers, those people on the outer

1221
00:43:15,358 --> 00:43:16,553
edge. So if you think about the,

1222
00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:19,899
a graph. Most people ignore the edges of

1223
00:43:19,899 --> 00:43:21,413
the graph and focus on the fat part

1224
00:43:21,413 --> 00:43:23,739
in the middle. In in in category science,

1225
00:43:23,899 --> 00:43:26,051
we say focus on the the edge cases.

1226
00:43:26,370 --> 00:43:27,646
Right? The Pete Townsend,

1227
00:43:28,204 --> 00:43:29,103
the Shane Mc.

1228
00:43:29,798 --> 00:43:30,675
And if you do that,

1229
00:43:31,407 --> 00:43:33,655
you can make if you will, a ser

1230
00:43:34,189 --> 00:43:34,905
insight happen.

1231
00:43:36,018 --> 00:43:38,482
So so share with me your thoughts, Mike

1232
00:43:38,482 --> 00:43:41,045
on this exact topic, which is Maybe I

1233
00:43:41,045 --> 00:43:42,565
wanna be a founder. I'm called to it.

1234
00:43:42,885 --> 00:43:44,724
I don't have the idea yet. How do

1235
00:43:44,885 --> 00:43:45,864
I be a person

1236
00:43:46,565 --> 00:43:48,485
who is like Jim Marshall.

1237
00:43:49,534 --> 00:43:51,677
Okay. So I would answer it at 2

1238
00:43:51,677 --> 00:43:52,074
levels,

1239
00:43:52,709 --> 00:43:55,250
and 1 level, I have more expertise than

1240
00:43:55,250 --> 00:43:56,574
the other. Right? So

1241
00:43:57,012 --> 00:43:58,602
Like, I I'd say that the the thing

1242
00:43:58,602 --> 00:44:00,749
that's a little bit different about some of

1243
00:44:00,749 --> 00:44:01,862
the things that you do and some of

1244
00:44:01,862 --> 00:44:02,999
the things that I do

1245
00:44:03,373 --> 00:44:03,532
is,

1246
00:44:04,407 --> 00:44:06,338
I'm very narrow. Right? So

1247
00:44:06,809 --> 00:44:09,304
I'm looking for ideas that

1248
00:44:09,682 --> 00:44:10,182
embody

1249
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:11,779
usually technology

1250
00:44:12,157 --> 00:44:14,313
inflection. And and the reason that I'm looking

1251
00:44:14,313 --> 00:44:15,371
for that is

1252
00:44:16,322 --> 00:44:17,994
I'm I'm looking for something that could be

1253
00:44:17,994 --> 00:44:19,747
worth more than 10000000000 dollars if it works.

1254
00:44:19,986 --> 00:44:21,818
Right? And and most of the time I'm

1255
00:44:21,818 --> 00:44:23,730
wrong, but I need to be spectacularly right

1256
00:44:23,730 --> 00:44:24,867
when I'm right. Whereas

1257
00:44:25,659 --> 00:44:28,216
category design doesn't have to just apply to

1258
00:44:28,216 --> 00:44:30,453
technology breakthroughs. It could apply to the 5

1259
00:44:30,453 --> 00:44:33,010
hour energy drink or or gorilla or whatever.

1260
00:44:33,503 --> 00:44:34,933
It it's more of like a state of

1261
00:44:34,933 --> 00:44:36,363
mind about how you wanna show up in

1262
00:44:36,363 --> 00:44:38,666
the world. Right? And so, like, what I

1263
00:44:38,666 --> 00:44:40,040
would say is that that

1264
00:44:40,573 --> 00:44:42,582
most people who succeed

1265
00:44:44,801 --> 00:44:47,131
they don't they don't follow a recipe.

1266
00:44:47,745 --> 00:44:50,076
They adopt a certain mindset. And so

1267
00:44:50,452 --> 00:44:52,361
too many people in business want a recipe.

1268
00:44:53,013 --> 00:44:55,081
The problem with that, though is that all

1269
00:44:55,081 --> 00:44:56,990
breakthroughs by definition are undiscovered.

1270
00:44:57,626 --> 00:44:59,694
And so, like, you can only have a

1271
00:44:59,694 --> 00:45:01,459
recipe for something that has been to covered.

1272
00:45:01,698 --> 00:45:03,212
If you have a recipe for cake, it's

1273
00:45:03,212 --> 00:45:05,545
because somebody's made a cake that specific way

1274
00:45:05,603 --> 00:45:07,993
and is sharing that recipe that playbook with

1275
00:45:07,993 --> 00:45:08,551
other people.

1276
00:45:09,204 --> 00:45:11,915
And so breakthroughs come from a certain mindset,

1277
00:45:12,075 --> 00:45:13,191
and you described it well.

1278
00:45:13,989 --> 00:45:16,222
It's it's almost a mindset of more like

1279
00:45:16,222 --> 00:45:18,429
an artist than a business person. And so

1280
00:45:18,628 --> 00:45:20,856
what's true about artists, artists, first of all,

1281
00:45:20,936 --> 00:45:22,845
they notice things that other people don't notice.

1282
00:45:23,322 --> 00:45:25,232
And what you're saying about, like, the marshall

1283
00:45:25,232 --> 00:45:27,514
amps and, like, all these different things are

1284
00:45:27,634 --> 00:45:29,465
you know, we could be talking about the

1285
00:45:29,465 --> 00:45:33,151
les paul guitar, Like, all these things happened

1286
00:45:34,085 --> 00:45:36,178
because somebody noticed something subtle

1287
00:45:36,729 --> 00:45:38,407
that other people just... You know, there's that

1288
00:45:38,407 --> 00:45:40,245
store about the... There's 2 fish swim, 2

1289
00:45:40,245 --> 00:45:41,923
little fish in the ocean, and a big

1290
00:45:41,923 --> 00:45:43,920
fish comes up. It says, morning boys has

1291
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:44,320
of water.

1292
00:45:44,894 --> 00:45:46,173
And the 2 little fish swim a little

1293
00:45:46,173 --> 00:45:47,691
bit farther. And then 1 of them says

1294
00:45:47,691 --> 00:45:50,168
the other, what the hell is water. And

1295
00:45:50,168 --> 00:45:52,266
it's like, you know, we're so

1296
00:45:52,725 --> 00:45:54,969
the just like I said earlier, that companies

1297
00:45:54,969 --> 00:45:56,880
that succeed well that follow patterns well,

1298
00:45:57,596 --> 00:45:59,449
they have an inherent set of biases.

1299
00:45:59,983 --> 00:46:02,212
The biases are so strong and so fundamental

1300
00:46:02,212 --> 00:46:03,978
and so flex, they don't even know they

1301
00:46:03,978 --> 00:46:06,525
have them. They they don't realize that that

1302
00:46:06,525 --> 00:46:09,230
that, you know, the people who started lifting

1303
00:46:09,309 --> 00:46:11,715
Uber under stood that the thing that's in

1304
00:46:11,715 --> 00:46:13,070
your pocket or in your hand,

1305
00:46:13,708 --> 00:46:15,463
now had a Gps locator chip in it,

1306
00:46:15,542 --> 00:46:17,934
that could enable ride sharing. Most people don't

1307
00:46:17,934 --> 00:46:19,290
know that the things in our pockets.

1308
00:46:19,863 --> 00:46:21,617
Have a new form of empowerment. Most of

1309
00:46:21,617 --> 00:46:23,291
us don't notice. Most of us aren't even

1310
00:46:23,291 --> 00:46:25,762
looking to notice. And so the thing that

1311
00:46:25,922 --> 00:46:27,857
I would say is likely similar

1312
00:46:28,329 --> 00:46:29,528
I bet you that the guy that did

1313
00:46:29,528 --> 00:46:31,206
the 5 hour energy drink. I bet you

1314
00:46:31,206 --> 00:46:32,804
that the person that did gorilla glue. I

1315
00:46:32,804 --> 00:46:34,402
bet you the person that is red bull,

1316
00:46:35,121 --> 00:46:37,530
even though they weren't technology centric, I bet

1317
00:46:37,530 --> 00:46:38,586
you that they were

1318
00:46:39,038 --> 00:46:42,474
supremely effective at 2 things. 1 is noticing

1319
00:46:42,529 --> 00:46:43,957
the opportunity for new pattern.

1320
00:46:44,768 --> 00:46:47,162
That's number 1, and artist noticed things. You

1321
00:46:47,162 --> 00:46:50,353
know, Michel sees P and a block of

1322
00:46:50,353 --> 00:46:50,672
marble,

1323
00:46:51,231 --> 00:46:53,554
you know, Vince van Go sees star store

1324
00:46:53,554 --> 00:46:54,348
eye on Canvas.

1325
00:46:55,064 --> 00:46:56,995
But then the second thing that Artists do

1326
00:46:57,370 --> 00:46:59,199
that's similar as they move us past our

1327
00:46:59,199 --> 00:46:59,516
logic.

1328
00:47:00,169 --> 00:47:02,025
And so when you see P,

1329
00:47:02,643 --> 00:47:04,239
you don't sit there and and think of

1330
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:05,356
it in a clinical way.

1331
00:47:06,075 --> 00:47:08,284
You're you're trans by it because

1332
00:47:08,642 --> 00:47:10,868
you can you can see the emotions that

1333
00:47:10,868 --> 00:47:13,356
we're conveyed, the the the depth of human

1334
00:47:13,412 --> 00:47:15,797
experience that comes, you know, overcomes you.

1335
00:47:16,528 --> 00:47:18,759
And the same is true startups, like nobody

1336
00:47:18,759 --> 00:47:20,135
would do business with a start

1337
00:47:20,592 --> 00:47:22,743
if they were following their logic. And so

1338
00:47:22,743 --> 00:47:24,974
the the founder has to convince early believers

1339
00:47:24,974 --> 00:47:25,930
to abandon their logic.

1340
00:47:26,664 --> 00:47:28,921
And and feel the same type of

1341
00:47:29,620 --> 00:47:31,878
aesthetic connection to a different future

1342
00:47:32,416 --> 00:47:34,268
that a patron of the arts fields. That

1343
00:47:34,268 --> 00:47:36,842
the Medici felt towards Vinci and Michel

1344
00:47:37,299 --> 00:47:39,213
and Rafael and all those people that you

1345
00:47:39,213 --> 00:47:40,032
see in the

1346
00:47:40,489 --> 00:47:42,484
Saint. Peter's of Basil silk, all those artists

1347
00:47:42,484 --> 00:47:44,494
right that got commissioned. And so,

1348
00:47:45,454 --> 00:47:47,394
in those ways, I'd say my business

1349
00:47:47,934 --> 00:47:50,014
is similar. You know, like, the way you

1350
00:47:50,014 --> 00:47:52,335
would describe category design, you probably think of

1351
00:47:52,335 --> 00:47:52,835
it

1352
00:47:53,309 --> 00:47:55,150
more broadly than I do. You probably think,

1353
00:47:55,630 --> 00:47:57,329
hey, 5 hour energy drink

1354
00:47:57,710 --> 00:47:58,210
perfectly

1355
00:47:58,750 --> 00:48:00,910
perfectly valid case a category design. I would

1356
00:48:00,910 --> 00:48:02,836
agree with that. But the difference for me

1357
00:48:02,836 --> 00:48:04,346
is I don't invest in those kind of

1358
00:48:04,346 --> 00:48:05,776
things. Right? So I have to be an

1359
00:48:05,776 --> 00:48:07,229
expert in the things that have

1360
00:48:07,603 --> 00:48:08,103
extraordinary

1361
00:48:08,635 --> 00:48:09,827
exponential technology empowerment.

1362
00:48:10,319 --> 00:48:11,752
So I have a, you know, a a

1363
00:48:11,752 --> 00:48:14,299
very specific edge case of category design that

1364
00:48:14,458 --> 00:48:15,971
I care about. Yeah. Of course.

1365
00:48:16,766 --> 00:48:18,695
And in edge an edge case that I

1366
00:48:18,695 --> 00:48:20,695
spent the bulk of my professional life over

1367
00:48:20,695 --> 00:48:21,094
30.

1368
00:48:21,574 --> 00:48:24,295
Yeah years. You you so I'm a founder,

1369
00:48:24,535 --> 00:48:26,054
Mike, and I say to, hey, that shit

1370
00:48:26,054 --> 00:48:27,494
you just said was really awesome.

1371
00:48:29,266 --> 00:48:31,043
What do I need to do

1372
00:48:31,900 --> 00:48:33,177
to be a person who,

1373
00:48:33,816 --> 00:48:34,135
quote,

1374
00:48:34,853 --> 00:48:36,551
moves us past

1375
00:48:36,941 --> 00:48:37,441
logic.

1376
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:40,112
Yeah. So

1377
00:48:40,905 --> 00:48:43,125
and this is where 1 of the things

1378
00:48:43,284 --> 00:48:44,289
I like about

1379
00:48:44,646 --> 00:48:46,630
you have this term lang something,

1380
00:48:47,344 --> 00:48:49,645
and you treat the word language as a

1381
00:48:49,645 --> 00:48:49,883
verb.

1382
00:48:50,676 --> 00:48:51,970
And interestingly,

1383
00:48:53,551 --> 00:48:56,179
imagining that you're in a different future. I

1384
00:48:56,179 --> 00:48:56,679
find

1385
00:48:57,373 --> 00:48:58,010
that could work,

1386
00:48:58,966 --> 00:49:00,320
but it's better to just be in a

1387
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:00,797
different 1.

1388
00:49:02,008 --> 00:49:03,843
And now what we have to do is

1389
00:49:03,843 --> 00:49:05,918
we have to educate the rest of the

1390
00:49:05,918 --> 00:49:07,912
world about how to think about the different

1391
00:49:07,912 --> 00:49:08,710
future we're inhabit.

1392
00:49:09,204 --> 00:49:11,426
And the biggest mistake we could possibly make

1393
00:49:11,426 --> 00:49:13,331
is to define it relative to a to

1394
00:49:13,331 --> 00:49:15,791
the best or to the present. Right? So,

1395
00:49:15,950 --> 00:49:16,188
you know,

1396
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,236
this is where people get product market fit

1397
00:49:19,236 --> 00:49:19,476
wrong.

1398
00:49:20,514 --> 00:49:23,310
There wasn't some, you know, abstract market for

1399
00:49:23,310 --> 00:49:23,550
ipads.

1400
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,766
Jobs harness a set of inflection

1401
00:49:27,139 --> 00:49:29,758
to create an entire category around tablets,

1402
00:49:30,393 --> 00:49:31,449
but he didn't just

1403
00:49:31,917 --> 00:49:33,349
tinker at a different future. And he didn't

1404
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:35,896
just create a different product that embodied that

1405
00:49:35,896 --> 00:49:36,055
future.

1406
00:49:36,930 --> 00:49:38,601
He had to come back to the present

1407
00:49:38,601 --> 00:49:40,352
and help us all learn how to think

1408
00:49:40,352 --> 00:49:42,041
about it. He had to come up with

1409
00:49:42,041 --> 00:49:45,313
language to describe what tablet computing was, just

1410
00:49:45,313 --> 00:49:46,989
like you had to have language to describe

1411
00:49:46,989 --> 00:49:48,745
what a thousand songs in your pocket was,

1412
00:49:49,159 --> 00:49:50,599
just like he had to have language to

1413
00:49:50,599 --> 00:49:52,359
describe what a smartphone and an app store

1414
00:49:52,359 --> 00:49:55,500
were. And so, like, the great category designers

1415
00:49:56,519 --> 00:49:57,339
use lang

1416
00:49:58,614 --> 00:49:59,114
to

1417
00:49:59,972 --> 00:50:02,550
cause a line a d and thinking

1418
00:50:03,409 --> 00:50:05,827
that then extends into a line a d

1419
00:50:05,886 --> 00:50:06,925
in behavior and acting.

1420
00:50:07,577 --> 00:50:10,202
And and in so doing, they cause people

1421
00:50:10,202 --> 00:50:11,259
to abandon

1422
00:50:11,952 --> 00:50:13,782
existing patterns and embrace the new patterns.

1423
00:50:14,514 --> 00:50:16,670
And so that's to me, that's getting people

1424
00:50:16,670 --> 00:50:18,346
to move past their logic. And they do

1425
00:50:18,346 --> 00:50:18,825
that by...

1426
00:50:19,623 --> 00:50:21,060
And by the way, this has happened in

1427
00:50:21,060 --> 00:50:23,376
other fields, you know, movements happen their social

1428
00:50:23,376 --> 00:50:25,710
movements that happen, Martin Luther King.

1429
00:50:26,269 --> 00:50:28,349
He says, I want people to be judged

1430
00:50:28,349 --> 00:50:29,710
by the content of their character or not

1431
00:50:29,710 --> 00:50:30,590
the color of their skin.

1432
00:50:31,724 --> 00:50:33,400
You you either believe that or you don't.

1433
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,195
You can't halfway believe that. And and you

1434
00:50:36,195 --> 00:50:38,989
don't move with him for utilitarian reasons. You

1435
00:50:38,989 --> 00:50:40,585
move with him for aesthetic reasons.

1436
00:50:41,397 --> 00:50:44,018
In the same way that people adopt embrace

1437
00:50:44,018 --> 00:50:46,084
artist dentistry or embrace startups.

1438
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,023
Early believers move for aesthetic reasons.

1439
00:50:49,579 --> 00:50:50,873
They they want to

1440
00:50:51,263 --> 00:50:53,892
transform their life in their own hero's journey,

1441
00:50:54,051 --> 00:50:57,238
and they wanna actual that transformation, and your

1442
00:50:57,238 --> 00:50:59,244
product or your startup becomes a vehicle for

1443
00:50:59,244 --> 00:51:00,517
them to do that. So you have to

1444
00:51:00,517 --> 00:51:02,927
language what you're doing in such a way

1445
00:51:03,064 --> 00:51:05,373
that they'll embrace that language. And it can't

1446
00:51:05,373 --> 00:51:07,540
sound like any languages come before. Like Twitter

1447
00:51:07,540 --> 00:51:09,693
can't say we're Micro blog inc. That would

1448
00:51:09,693 --> 00:51:10,592
have been a terrible

1449
00:51:11,447 --> 00:51:14,478
under appreciation of the opportunity. Right? And and

1450
00:51:14,478 --> 00:51:14,956
so, like,

1451
00:51:15,847 --> 00:51:18,155
all the all the startups have worked with

1452
00:51:18,155 --> 00:51:19,507
that have really succeeded,

1453
00:51:20,382 --> 00:51:23,167
have come up with language on purpose, sometimes

1454
00:51:23,167 --> 00:51:25,808
by accident, but but, like, ultimately, it's been

1455
00:51:25,808 --> 00:51:27,480
part of their success is they've defined a

1456
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,550
new language to describe the new pattern.

1457
00:51:30,186 --> 00:51:32,986
And that language resonates powerfully with the early

1458
00:51:32,986 --> 00:51:35,131
believers who move past their logic to that

1459
00:51:35,131 --> 00:51:36,163
aesthetically different future.

1460
00:51:36,958 --> 00:51:38,546
Is it wrong for 1 man to live

1461
00:51:38,546 --> 00:51:39,102
in man?

1462
00:51:40,293 --> 00:51:42,777
Yes. Yes. So let me take a recent

1463
00:51:42,777 --> 00:51:43,994
example. So this

1464
00:51:44,770 --> 00:51:47,798
pattern breaking category design hides and plain sight

1465
00:51:47,798 --> 00:51:48,538
with lang.

1466
00:51:49,089 --> 00:51:51,005
And of course, the purpose of language do

1467
00:51:51,005 --> 00:51:53,719
exactly what you describe, a d point in

1468
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,752
thinking to a d point ultimately in action

1469
00:51:56,752 --> 00:51:57,470
and in business,

1470
00:51:58,124 --> 00:52:00,921
buying and purchasing behavior. So let's let's take

1471
00:52:00,921 --> 00:52:01,800
a recent example.

1472
00:52:02,439 --> 00:52:02,679
Open.

1473
00:52:03,958 --> 00:52:06,035
Yep. If you ask most people in Silicon

1474
00:52:06,195 --> 00:52:06,515
Valley,

1475
00:52:07,086 --> 00:52:08,538
why open Ai

1476
00:52:09,227 --> 00:52:10,654
became the fastest growing,

1477
00:52:11,209 --> 00:52:12,184
most impactful

1478
00:52:12,715 --> 00:52:14,142
software startup of all time.

1479
00:52:15,669 --> 00:52:17,023
The vast majority and we're gonna go to

1480
00:52:17,023 --> 00:52:17,501
the product.

1481
00:52:18,297 --> 00:52:19,971
And the product is amazing. I mean, it's...

1482
00:52:20,528 --> 00:52:22,201
Yep. The first time we all used it,

1483
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,318
we all went oh, fuck. Right? Like... Yep.

1484
00:52:26,033 --> 00:52:26,533
So

1485
00:52:27,065 --> 00:52:28,972
legendary breakthrough product. Absolutely.

1486
00:52:29,687 --> 00:52:30,187
And

1487
00:52:31,370 --> 00:52:32,585
Let's look at the lang.

1488
00:52:32,958 --> 00:52:35,022
First of all, they didn't say they were

1489
00:52:35,101 --> 00:52:35,578
Ai.

1490
00:52:36,133 --> 00:52:38,062
They said they were generative

1491
00:52:39,071 --> 00:52:39,547
Ai.

1492
00:52:40,518 --> 00:52:43,150
So they're trying to focus it down on

1493
00:52:43,150 --> 00:52:43,650
generating

1494
00:52:44,346 --> 00:52:48,175
and answer, generating a completely different result. Here's

1495
00:52:48,175 --> 00:52:49,291
what they didn't say, Mike.

1496
00:52:50,264 --> 00:52:51,860
We're searched 2 dat.

1497
00:52:52,499 --> 00:52:54,574
No. And and and they go a step

1498
00:52:54,574 --> 00:52:54,973
further.

1499
00:52:55,452 --> 00:52:57,150
They say we want to enable

1500
00:52:57,527 --> 00:52:59,931
artificial general intelligence. And this is a step

1501
00:52:59,931 --> 00:53:01,838
on the path to enabling that. The point

1502
00:53:01,838 --> 00:53:04,061
of view is the company. Exactly. Right? And

1503
00:53:04,061 --> 00:53:05,594
so their point of view is Ag.

1504
00:53:06,126 --> 00:53:08,054
And so they're like, I'm gonna have a

1505
00:53:08,054 --> 00:53:09,994
sec a sequence of things

1506
00:53:10,295 --> 00:53:12,054
that prove my point of view, that prove

1507
00:53:12,054 --> 00:53:14,135
that we're making progress to to that ultimate

1508
00:53:14,135 --> 00:53:15,335
point of view. But like,

1509
00:53:16,149 --> 00:53:18,621
open Ai doesn't say we're trying to make

1510
00:53:18,621 --> 00:53:19,281
a better

1511
00:53:19,818 --> 00:53:22,929
question answer interface. They say there's this thing

1512
00:53:22,929 --> 00:53:25,661
on the horizon that's gonna change humanity called

1513
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:28,360
artificial general intelligence, we exist as a company

1514
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,905
to make that true in the future. Everything

1515
00:53:30,905 --> 00:53:32,496
that we do is gonna be, you know,

1516
00:53:33,547 --> 00:53:35,936
wood behind that arrow of that. And and

1517
00:53:35,936 --> 00:53:36,733
the weird thing is,

1518
00:53:37,848 --> 00:53:39,601
I'm not even trying to hide it. I'm

1519
00:53:39,601 --> 00:53:41,433
trying to do category design right now with

1520
00:53:41,433 --> 00:53:43,202
the book pattern break Right? I'm trying to

1521
00:53:43,202 --> 00:53:44,021
say you're

1522
00:53:44,398 --> 00:53:46,711
designing yourself and your first there's a different

1523
00:53:46,711 --> 00:53:48,226
way to think of startups and it em

1524
00:53:48,226 --> 00:53:50,699
embed inflection and insights and it em impair

1525
00:53:50,699 --> 00:53:53,668
movements and storytelling and disagreeable ness, and, like,

1526
00:53:54,387 --> 00:53:56,065
I'm trying to create a new language. Yeah.

1527
00:53:56,224 --> 00:53:58,003
Yeah just like Eric Reese, when

1528
00:53:58,461 --> 00:54:00,548
you knew that his ideas were starting to

1529
00:54:00,548 --> 00:54:02,057
succeed. When I would get pitches and they

1530
00:54:02,057 --> 00:54:04,042
say, well, we're doing a minimum viable product

1531
00:54:04,042 --> 00:54:06,027
or, you know, we're we're a lean start.

1532
00:54:06,582 --> 00:54:08,329
I'll know that our ideas are starting to

1533
00:54:08,329 --> 00:54:08,488
win.

1534
00:54:09,219 --> 00:54:10,817
When people start to say, here's what my

1535
00:54:10,817 --> 00:54:13,293
fundamental insight is. Or here's what my inflection

1536
00:54:13,293 --> 00:54:14,971
were... Like, here's the movement I'm trying to

1537
00:54:14,971 --> 00:54:17,463
start. And I'm I'm trying to do that

1538
00:54:17,463 --> 00:54:18,822
because I'm trying... First of all, I think

1539
00:54:18,822 --> 00:54:20,260
it's a better way to think of startups,

1540
00:54:20,580 --> 00:54:21,939
particularly if you want breakthroughs,

1541
00:54:22,498 --> 00:54:24,097
but I'm trying to create a line of

1542
00:54:24,097 --> 00:54:26,528
d and language. I'm trying to have a

1543
00:54:26,584 --> 00:54:28,567
common set of words that people could use

1544
00:54:28,567 --> 00:54:31,186
to describe what they see and and the

1545
00:54:31,186 --> 00:54:33,486
phenomenon that they're witnessing when they create these

1546
00:54:33,486 --> 00:54:33,986
breakthroughs

1547
00:54:34,534 --> 00:54:36,364
and my hope is that if if if

1548
00:54:36,364 --> 00:54:37,240
if we win,

1549
00:54:38,115 --> 00:54:39,707
if you win the agenda, you know,

1550
00:54:40,503 --> 00:54:42,436
the the point of view around the language

1551
00:54:42,493 --> 00:54:43,846
becomes to the point of view flood gate.

1552
00:54:44,259 --> 00:54:46,088
And so now I have a reason to

1553
00:54:46,088 --> 00:54:46,907
talk to people

1554
00:54:47,361 --> 00:54:49,929
about these ideas, and it's it's a vehicle

1555
00:54:49,986 --> 00:54:51,751
to talk about the point a view of

1556
00:54:51,751 --> 00:54:53,420
flood gate and why we're different in seed

1557
00:54:53,420 --> 00:54:55,407
and why, you know, we're not just 1

1558
00:54:55,407 --> 00:54:57,950
of 2000 seed funds that say all the

1559
00:54:57,950 --> 00:55:01,066
same content free words. And so So my

1560
00:55:01,066 --> 00:55:03,533
hope is to start a movement and move

1561
00:55:03,533 --> 00:55:05,682
early believers in this way of thinking about

1562
00:55:05,682 --> 00:55:06,000
startups,

1563
00:55:06,637 --> 00:55:08,467
and the hope is over time that a

1564
00:55:08,467 --> 00:55:10,314
a whole bunch of people will embrace that

1565
00:55:10,314 --> 00:55:12,471
movement, what it bodies and that that 1

1566
00:55:12,471 --> 00:55:14,548
day, the the language of pattern breakers will

1567
00:55:14,548 --> 00:55:15,048
become

1568
00:55:15,427 --> 00:55:17,286
mainstream to the language of

1569
00:55:18,393 --> 00:55:20,695
entrepreneurship in the same way that the lean

1570
00:55:20,695 --> 00:55:22,681
startup up terms were 0 to 1 terms

1571
00:55:22,681 --> 00:55:25,514
were, like, Steve blank customer development. So that's

1572
00:55:25,714 --> 00:55:27,649
but the goal is to have something meaningful

1573
00:55:27,707 --> 00:55:29,382
to add to the startup up can and,

1574
00:55:29,462 --> 00:55:31,854
you know, of of ideas. Right? And and

1575
00:55:31,854 --> 00:55:34,246
it's a pure category design problem. Right? It's

1576
00:55:34,246 --> 00:55:36,016
like your you're trying to move people to

1577
00:55:36,016 --> 00:55:38,411
a different future. You're trying to explain why

1578
00:55:38,411 --> 00:55:40,964
you think that future is aesthetically superior to

1579
00:55:40,964 --> 00:55:42,320
the way people are doing it right now.

1580
00:55:42,973 --> 00:55:44,962
And then people are gonna choose to believe

1581
00:55:44,962 --> 00:55:46,178
or not believe ultimately.

1582
00:55:46,633 --> 00:55:48,065
Yeah. And you're trying to...

1583
00:55:48,702 --> 00:55:49,918
And I'll use this

1584
00:55:50,227 --> 00:55:51,735
in category design language,

1585
00:55:52,609 --> 00:55:55,808
create a new missing for people in the

1586
00:55:56,420 --> 00:55:57,372
venture startup world.

1587
00:55:58,504 --> 00:56:00,821
Right. Yeah. I want... What what I want

1588
00:56:00,821 --> 00:56:02,499
them to do is I want them to

1589
00:56:02,499 --> 00:56:02,999
realize

1590
00:56:04,337 --> 00:56:06,669
most people think the wrong way about success

1591
00:56:06,669 --> 00:56:08,286
and failure. They think about

1592
00:56:09,543 --> 00:56:12,257
success success as avoiding failure?

1593
00:56:12,976 --> 00:56:15,951
Or they think of failure as not succeeding

1594
00:56:16,344 --> 00:56:17,703
To me, there's only 1 way to fail,

1595
00:56:17,942 --> 00:56:19,161
and that's to pursue

1596
00:56:19,780 --> 00:56:22,017
an okay but not great idea that you

1597
00:56:22,017 --> 00:56:23,615
get stuck in that you have to deal

1598
00:56:23,615 --> 00:56:25,625
with the s. And you can't get out

1599
00:56:25,625 --> 00:56:27,059
of it, and you have all these commitments.

1600
00:56:28,015 --> 00:56:31,042
I would rather take a high risk, high

1601
00:56:31,042 --> 00:56:33,693
upside bet on the future and fail quickly

1602
00:56:34,562 --> 00:56:37,112
Not because I'm just willy nilly fail fast.

1603
00:56:37,351 --> 00:56:38,170
It's because

1604
00:56:38,865 --> 00:56:40,936
you can only know your non consensus at

1605
00:56:40,936 --> 00:56:42,769
first. You can't know that your non consensus

1606
00:56:42,769 --> 00:56:44,773
and write it first. And so it's your

1607
00:56:44,773 --> 00:56:46,757
willingness to be wrong that allows you to

1608
00:56:46,757 --> 00:56:48,979
be spectacularly right at your willingness to fail

1609
00:56:48,979 --> 00:56:51,304
that lets you have asymmetric success

1610
00:56:51,694 --> 00:56:53,211
And so what we wanna do is we

1611
00:56:53,211 --> 00:56:55,765
wanna say, okay, if we do succeed, did

1612
00:56:55,765 --> 00:56:57,042
we get paid for the risk that we

1613
00:56:57,042 --> 00:56:59,197
took? Was it worth it? Because we only

1614
00:56:59,197 --> 00:57:00,967
have to be right once. You know, if

1615
00:57:00,967 --> 00:57:02,319
you're an entrepreneur, you only have to be

1616
00:57:02,319 --> 00:57:03,534
right once in your career

1617
00:57:03,989 --> 00:57:06,851
if you're spectacularly right. So we're we're looking

1618
00:57:06,851 --> 00:57:09,317
for very high risk, but even higher expected

1619
00:57:09,317 --> 00:57:12,596
value futures that most people are afraid to

1620
00:57:12,596 --> 00:57:13,096
pursue

1621
00:57:13,711 --> 00:57:15,224
because they think of risk the way Buffet

1622
00:57:15,224 --> 00:57:17,296
thinks of it as avoiding hazard or rather

1623
00:57:17,296 --> 00:57:19,367
than something that you take proactively and with

1624
00:57:19,367 --> 00:57:20,756
courage. And with

1625
00:57:21,129 --> 00:57:22,318
conviction and with intelligence.

1626
00:57:22,794 --> 00:57:24,856
And so, you know, how do you decide

1627
00:57:24,856 --> 00:57:26,679
what risks are worth taking is what we're

1628
00:57:26,679 --> 00:57:28,682
interested in? And that's the way we wanna

1629
00:57:28,682 --> 00:57:30,277
help founders is to come up with ways

1630
00:57:30,277 --> 00:57:32,989
to stress test their ideas to see? But

1631
00:57:32,989 --> 00:57:34,903
do I wanna cross that Rub? Is this

1632
00:57:34,903 --> 00:57:37,716
risk worth taking? Is this future worth exploring

1633
00:57:38,429 --> 00:57:40,507
or is it something that, I'm trying to

1634
00:57:40,507 --> 00:57:42,824
think of a startup and I can't articulate

1635
00:57:42,824 --> 00:57:45,221
a path to a radically different future? Yes.

1636
00:57:45,780 --> 00:57:46,100
Absolutely.

1637
00:57:46,754 --> 00:57:48,590
And the other thing about what you do

1638
00:57:48,590 --> 00:57:51,383
and what we do is most people in

1639
00:57:51,383 --> 00:57:54,257
business when they're presented with any anything, an

1640
00:57:54,257 --> 00:57:56,984
idea, a plan strategy or what whatever it

1641
00:57:56,984 --> 00:57:57,143
is.

1642
00:57:58,181 --> 00:58:00,196
They view it through a lens called

1643
00:58:00,653 --> 00:58:01,610
why won't this work?

1644
00:58:02,408 --> 00:58:04,822
And let me point out all the holes

1645
00:58:05,294 --> 00:58:08,096
in this thing. And Yep. There's some real

1646
00:58:08,310 --> 00:58:11,033
valid reasons to do that, Of course. However,

1647
00:58:13,487 --> 00:58:15,240
If you're in the different futures business,

1648
00:58:17,073 --> 00:58:19,485
you have to spend more time thinking about

1649
00:58:20,659 --> 00:58:22,592
what would need to be true

1650
00:58:23,541 --> 00:58:25,450
for this different future to happen?

1651
00:58:26,166 --> 00:58:26,485
Yes.

1652
00:58:27,121 --> 00:58:28,735
And then you have to decide

1653
00:58:29,667 --> 00:58:31,917
how much are you willing to bet on

1654
00:58:32,149 --> 00:58:34,386
the entrepreneurs ability to move the world as

1655
00:58:34,386 --> 00:58:35,525
we talked about earlier

1656
00:58:36,143 --> 00:58:37,981
from the way it is to a new

1657
00:58:37,981 --> 00:58:38,780
and different way.

1658
00:58:39,992 --> 00:58:40,731
But fundamentally,

1659
00:58:41,586 --> 00:58:44,059
it's about trying to get your arms around

1660
00:58:44,059 --> 00:58:47,089
what category design is called category potential, what

1661
00:58:47,089 --> 00:58:48,046
could be true.

1662
00:58:48,699 --> 00:58:49,178
If

1663
00:58:49,577 --> 00:58:51,652
this were to happen. And to just circle

1664
00:58:51,652 --> 00:58:53,248
back on the lang because I think it's

1665
00:58:53,248 --> 00:58:53,887
so important.

1666
00:58:54,446 --> 00:58:56,601
The other legendary thing open Did.

1667
00:58:57,333 --> 00:58:59,657
Through the entire history of of software,

1668
00:59:00,506 --> 00:59:02,275
we have built and used

1669
00:59:03,044 --> 00:59:03,441
databases.

1670
00:59:04,728 --> 00:59:08,081
And databases were designed to store and or

1671
00:59:08,081 --> 00:59:08,581
retrieve

1672
00:59:08,959 --> 00:59:09,119
information.

1673
00:59:11,034 --> 00:59:12,731
Well, you can't use

1674
00:59:13,682 --> 00:59:15,996
old words to describe new things.

1675
00:59:16,554 --> 00:59:18,389
No. So Open A says,

1676
00:59:18,947 --> 00:59:21,180
it's not a database in any traditional sense.

1677
00:59:21,739 --> 00:59:22,637
It's an L.

1678
00:59:23,348 --> 00:59:25,334
It's a large language model.

1679
00:59:25,890 --> 00:59:27,400
And they... And I'm gonna use this word

1680
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:27,717
on purpose,

1681
00:59:28,512 --> 00:59:29,012
Differentiate

1682
00:59:29,703 --> 00:59:32,814
what happens to data in an Ll as

1683
00:59:32,814 --> 00:59:35,989
compared to a traditional database. And then you

1684
00:59:35,989 --> 00:59:38,632
don't store and retrieve in an Ll,

1685
00:59:39,418 --> 00:59:40,158
you quote

1686
00:59:40,695 --> 00:59:41,732
train the data.

1687
00:59:42,449 --> 00:59:42,689
Yes.

1688
00:59:43,726 --> 00:59:44,226
So

1689
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:46,379
just that

1690
00:59:47,155 --> 00:59:48,054
differentiated lang,

1691
00:59:49,324 --> 00:59:50,843
lets everybody know.

1692
00:59:52,441 --> 00:59:54,998
We're trying to explain what we believe is

1693
00:59:54,998 --> 00:59:55,498
an

1694
00:59:55,878 --> 00:59:56,937
exponential different

1695
00:59:58,036 --> 00:59:58,536
future

1696
00:59:59,008 --> 00:59:59,485
breakthrough.

1697
01:00:00,121 --> 01:00:02,269
Yes. And Eli who else does this really

1698
01:00:02,269 --> 01:00:04,575
well is Tesla. And... It's not just the

1699
01:00:04,575 --> 01:00:04,813
car.

1700
01:00:05,927 --> 01:00:07,676
Tesla is a great example of this. Because,

1701
01:00:07,914 --> 01:00:08,392
first of all,

1702
01:00:09,283 --> 01:00:11,358
their mission doesn't even describe cars. Right? They

1703
01:00:11,358 --> 01:00:14,333
say we wanna accelerate the world to sustainable

1704
01:00:14,391 --> 01:00:16,887
energy. And so great movement, a great category

1705
01:00:17,025 --> 01:00:19,190
starts by appealing to a higher purpose than

1706
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:21,497
just any 1 company. Right? And so then

1707
01:00:21,497 --> 01:00:23,089
what do they do? They don't just sell

1708
01:00:23,089 --> 01:00:25,317
you a car that em embark that different

1709
01:00:25,317 --> 01:00:26,724
future. They create, like, the

1710
01:00:27,242 --> 01:00:29,072
charger network, and they create the power wall

1711
01:00:29,072 --> 01:00:31,221
batteries, and they create the solar panels on

1712
01:00:31,221 --> 01:00:31,619
your house.

1713
01:00:32,335 --> 01:00:34,007
They create an entire ecosystem.

1714
01:00:34,738 --> 01:00:37,600
Of things that validate your belief in that

1715
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,985
aesthetically different future. And so, like,

1716
01:00:40,780 --> 01:00:42,768
that's that's part of what they've done so

1717
01:00:42,768 --> 01:00:44,063
brilliantly. And and

1718
01:00:44,374 --> 01:00:46,288
every step of the way they've lang it.

1719
01:00:46,448 --> 01:00:49,239
Right? It it it all fits together, right,

1720
01:00:49,399 --> 01:00:50,595
in a coherent hole.

1721
01:00:51,712 --> 01:00:53,467
And, you know, you don't sit there and

1722
01:00:53,467 --> 01:00:55,472
you see all the stuff that they're doing

1723
01:00:55,472 --> 01:00:56,744
and then say, oh, well how is that

1724
01:00:56,744 --> 01:00:59,131
different from Ford? How that different from Chevy?

1725
01:00:59,290 --> 01:01:00,665
How's that different from Bmw?

1726
01:01:01,611 --> 01:01:03,833
It's self evident. Right? That the language is

1727
01:01:03,833 --> 01:01:05,341
so different that it's self evident.

1728
01:01:05,897 --> 01:01:06,635
And so

1729
01:01:07,246 --> 01:01:08,119
that's, you know,

1730
01:01:09,088 --> 01:01:11,394
it takes courage to do that because everybody's

1731
01:01:11,394 --> 01:01:12,826
like, I wanna be in the Ga Magic

1732
01:01:12,985 --> 01:01:15,633
Quadrant or I wanna be, you know, mentioned

1733
01:01:16,421 --> 01:01:18,170
alongside x y and z companies,

1734
01:01:18,806 --> 01:01:20,499
but that's not good because

1735
01:01:20,874 --> 01:01:22,862
that that that causes you to fall into

1736
01:01:22,862 --> 01:01:25,765
the comparison trap. You wanna defy comparison

1737
01:01:26,142 --> 01:01:28,294
by having language that def defines the comparison.

1738
01:01:28,852 --> 01:01:30,127
And then, you know, when you start the

1739
01:01:30,127 --> 01:01:31,641
movement and you're disagreeable,

1740
01:01:32,453 --> 01:01:34,045
you wanna do that, so you can escape

1741
01:01:34,045 --> 01:01:37,489
the conformity trap because conforming to society's

1742
01:01:37,864 --> 01:01:40,289
expectations of you will cause you to rep

1743
01:01:40,427 --> 01:01:42,500
the mission. It'll cause you to back down

1744
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:44,414
when you shouldn't back down. And so, you

1745
01:01:44,414 --> 01:01:46,407
know, you have to escape both traps, The

1746
01:01:46,407 --> 01:01:49,214
the comparison trap and the conformity trap. By

1747
01:01:49,214 --> 01:01:50,332
thinking and acting different.

1748
01:01:51,211 --> 01:01:53,767
And and so and language is is key

1749
01:01:53,767 --> 01:01:55,626
to that. Is key to escaping

1750
01:01:56,258 --> 01:01:58,490
both forms of that trap because it takes

1751
01:01:58,490 --> 01:02:00,404
courage to have different language, but it also

1752
01:02:00,404 --> 01:02:02,318
takes originality to have different language.

1753
01:02:03,514 --> 01:02:04,710
And you gotta be committed to it.

1754
01:02:05,602 --> 01:02:06,558
Quick 2 quick stories.

1755
01:02:07,594 --> 01:02:07,833
1,

1756
01:02:08,550 --> 01:02:09,506
a little while ago,

1757
01:02:10,621 --> 01:02:12,215
Ding Dong Magazine and approached me and they

1758
01:02:12,215 --> 01:02:14,446
said, hey, we're doing this big cover story.

1759
01:02:15,260 --> 01:02:15,500
On,

1760
01:02:16,139 --> 01:02:18,059
I forget what the number was the 10

1761
01:02:18,059 --> 01:02:20,460
or the 20 or the whatever... Some... You

1762
01:02:20,460 --> 01:02:21,900
know, these list things. Is, you know, you're

1763
01:02:21,900 --> 01:02:23,500
on the midas list and all the other.

1764
01:02:23,739 --> 01:02:23,980
Awesome.

1765
01:02:24,634 --> 01:02:26,173
Bc. So it's 1 of those

1766
01:02:26,712 --> 01:02:28,710
for marketing people. Right? And there's like,

1767
01:02:29,668 --> 01:02:31,346
we love you, and you're 1 of the

1768
01:02:31,346 --> 01:02:31,586
top, 1

1769
01:02:33,037 --> 01:02:34,545
But here's what they called it.

1770
01:02:36,134 --> 01:02:36,634
Marketing

1771
01:02:37,404 --> 01:02:37,904
influencers.

1772
01:02:38,675 --> 01:02:40,978
Yeah. It's a bad name. Well, guess what?

1773
01:02:42,343 --> 01:02:44,728
I'm not a fucking donkey influencer.

1774
01:02:46,079 --> 01:02:47,670
And so I said, hey, I really appreciate

1775
01:02:47,670 --> 01:02:49,419
it. I can't be on your list.

1776
01:02:50,389 --> 01:02:50,629
Yeah.

1777
01:02:51,508 --> 01:02:53,027
And then years ago when we were at

1778
01:02:53,027 --> 01:02:53,506
mercury,

1779
01:02:54,065 --> 01:02:56,063
we were working a big story with Forbes.

1780
01:02:57,662 --> 01:02:59,580
And they do an annual list of their

1781
01:02:59,580 --> 01:03:02,786
top you know, high growth companies or whatever

1782
01:03:02,786 --> 01:03:04,381
they. And and

1783
01:03:05,418 --> 01:03:07,092
as we're working on the story with them,

1784
01:03:07,411 --> 01:03:09,006
it becomes clear, it's gonna be a big

1785
01:03:09,006 --> 01:03:09,246
story.

1786
01:03:09,977 --> 01:03:10,216
Yep.

1787
01:03:11,010 --> 01:03:11,749
And then

1788
01:03:12,441 --> 01:03:14,587
the senior editor working on the story calls

1789
01:03:14,587 --> 01:03:16,653
me, and he says, hey Christopher.

1790
01:03:17,463 --> 01:03:18,893
We'd like to do this is... Would like

1791
01:03:18,893 --> 01:03:20,084
to put you guys on the cover.

1792
01:03:20,719 --> 01:03:21,672
Picture of your Ceo.

1793
01:03:22,149 --> 01:03:24,055
And they're gonna fly to California, They're gonna

1794
01:03:24,055 --> 01:03:26,456
take pictures of them and We we take

1795
01:03:26,456 --> 01:03:28,867
them shopping and get them new outfits and

1796
01:03:29,084 --> 01:03:30,279
buff them up and do the whole thing.

1797
01:03:30,438 --> 01:03:32,190
So we do all of that shit. The

1798
01:03:32,190 --> 01:03:33,306
story ready to roll.

1799
01:03:34,914 --> 01:03:35,392
And

1800
01:03:36,907 --> 01:03:37,407
the

1801
01:03:38,102 --> 01:03:40,494
editor calls me? And I said, hey, what

1802
01:03:40,494 --> 01:03:42,008
do you... What what are you gonna say

1803
01:03:42,008 --> 01:03:42,646
on the cover?

1804
01:03:43,378 --> 01:03:45,931
Which is a taboo question, but I asked

1805
01:03:45,931 --> 01:03:48,882
it anyway. And he said, well, we normally

1806
01:03:48,882 --> 01:03:52,152
call this our top 50 or 02:50. Whatever

1807
01:03:52,152 --> 01:03:52,630
the list was.

1808
01:03:53,363 --> 01:03:55,038
Small companies in America.

1809
01:03:57,511 --> 01:03:58,308
I said to him Bruce.

1810
01:03:59,983 --> 01:04:00,861
We gotta eject.

1811
01:04:01,977 --> 01:04:02,615
He says what?

1812
01:04:03,981 --> 01:04:04,617
I said, dude,

1813
01:04:05,648 --> 01:04:06,759
we're already public.

1814
01:04:07,632 --> 01:04:10,806
We sell to the largest governments and corporations

1815
01:04:10,806 --> 01:04:11,624
in the world

1816
01:04:12,333 --> 01:04:13,631
You calling us

1817
01:04:14,009 --> 01:04:15,626
1 of the top small businesses

1818
01:04:16,164 --> 01:04:16,664
literally

1819
01:04:17,041 --> 01:04:18,100
undermine everything

1820
01:04:18,557 --> 01:04:20,569
we're trying to get done. And so we

1821
01:04:20,569 --> 01:04:21,927
love you, we know it's gonna be a

1822
01:04:21,927 --> 01:04:24,665
great story. We appreciate it. But

1823
01:04:25,284 --> 01:04:27,442
as crazy it'll... As it sounds, this will

1824
01:04:27,442 --> 01:04:28,960
do way more damaging and good.

1825
01:04:29,612 --> 01:04:31,921
He said to me, to the best of

1826
01:04:31,921 --> 01:04:33,195
his knowledge at that time,

1827
01:04:33,911 --> 01:04:35,048
we were the first

1828
01:04:35,503 --> 01:04:38,230
people to ever say Thanks, but no thanks

1829
01:04:38,230 --> 01:04:39,190
to the cover of forbes.

1830
01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:39,829
Yeah.

1831
01:04:40,469 --> 01:04:42,469
I'm not surprised. Here's what they did.

1832
01:04:43,109 --> 01:04:44,550
They renamed the issue.

1833
01:04:45,443 --> 01:04:46,958
They came back and we sit... And they

1834
01:04:46,958 --> 01:04:48,951
said, if we call it the top entrepreneurial

1835
01:04:48,951 --> 01:04:50,784
companies, does that work for you? I said

1836
01:04:50,784 --> 01:04:52,777
that works great. That's awesome. Yep.

1837
01:04:53,509 --> 01:04:54,862
And so my point in all of that

1838
01:04:54,862 --> 01:04:57,271
is, you know, it's the rare company or

1839
01:04:57,487 --> 01:05:00,215
individual who's willing to look at a giant

1840
01:05:00,432 --> 01:05:03,233
opportunity and take a pass on it for

1841
01:05:03,233 --> 01:05:03,733
this

1842
01:05:04,189 --> 01:05:06,819
clear commitment that I want the world to

1843
01:05:06,819 --> 01:05:07,877
be able to

1844
01:05:08,253 --> 01:05:10,898
perceive us in a very particular way And

1845
01:05:10,898 --> 01:05:12,334
even though this might lead to a lot

1846
01:05:12,334 --> 01:05:12,972
of good things,

1847
01:05:13,690 --> 01:05:15,764
it's ortho to what we're trying to get

1848
01:05:15,764 --> 01:05:17,119
done, and we're eject.

1849
01:05:17,917 --> 01:05:19,534
Yeah. And it's and it's interesting

1850
01:05:19,911 --> 01:05:20,411
because

1851
01:05:20,804 --> 01:05:22,719
what you what you start to realize is

1852
01:05:22,719 --> 01:05:24,076
that people wanna be led.

1853
01:05:24,954 --> 01:05:27,269
They wanna be led into a different future,

1854
01:05:27,429 --> 01:05:29,756
and they're so used to, you know, sometimes

1855
01:05:29,836 --> 01:05:31,268
I'll turn on the Tv and I'll see,

1856
01:05:31,427 --> 01:05:32,779
like, Cnbc or something.

1857
01:05:33,654 --> 01:05:35,881
And business people don't talk like normal people.

1858
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,603
Right? You'll see somebody say, well, We have

1859
01:05:38,603 --> 01:05:40,437
this new line of branded coffee that our...

1860
01:05:40,916 --> 01:05:43,149
Customers are going to like and it's gonna

1861
01:05:43,149 --> 01:05:45,164
expand our footprint and value

1862
01:05:45,542 --> 01:05:46,999
proposition for coffee

1863
01:05:47,376 --> 01:05:47,695
consumers.

1864
01:05:48,586 --> 01:05:49,382
And I'm just, like,

1865
01:05:50,815 --> 01:05:52,963
why does anybody even listen to this person?

1866
01:05:53,679 --> 01:05:55,111
That like, it's just gibberish.

1867
01:05:55,762 --> 01:05:58,933
And so, like, the the authenticity of having

1868
01:05:58,933 --> 01:06:01,470
different language and having a valid different future

1869
01:06:01,470 --> 01:06:02,921
that you're moving people towards

1870
01:06:03,709 --> 01:06:05,786
really magnet people in the same way that

1871
01:06:05,786 --> 01:06:08,104
a story magnet people. And,

1872
01:06:08,902 --> 01:06:10,661
it's a shame that more people don't have

1873
01:06:10,661 --> 01:06:11,161
confidence

1874
01:06:12,114 --> 01:06:14,351
in the fact that it'll work if they

1875
01:06:14,351 --> 01:06:15,550
show up in the world that way.

1876
01:06:16,748 --> 01:06:19,440
Because it's it's it's it's risky, but it's

1877
01:06:19,559 --> 01:06:21,874
it's 1 of those risks worth taking. Not

1878
01:06:21,874 --> 01:06:23,950
doing it as more risky because not doing

1879
01:06:23,950 --> 01:06:25,706
it means you fall into the comparison trap,

1880
01:06:25,866 --> 01:06:27,063
and you'll never be truly great.

1881
01:06:27,861 --> 01:06:28,580
To Mike Be?

1882
01:06:30,829 --> 01:06:32,584
We've done it before till late in the

1883
01:06:32,584 --> 01:06:33,084
evening

1884
01:06:33,940 --> 01:06:34,578
with various.

1885
01:06:35,456 --> 01:06:35,615
Yeah.

1886
01:06:36,268 --> 01:06:38,496
We we don't have a huge substances here.

1887
01:06:39,292 --> 01:06:40,804
Well, I've got a bunch of whiskey right

1888
01:06:40,804 --> 01:06:43,271
over there. Good day. So unless you wanna

1889
01:06:43,271 --> 01:06:44,862
do that and keep going for another 2

1890
01:06:44,862 --> 01:06:45,101
hours,

1891
01:06:45,831 --> 01:06:47,501
is there anything else you wanna touch on

1892
01:06:47,501 --> 01:06:48,217
before we were at?

1893
01:06:49,728 --> 01:06:49,966
I guess,

1894
01:06:50,762 --> 01:06:52,670
the main thing is that, you know, I

1895
01:06:52,670 --> 01:06:54,499
imagine some people listening to this will be

1896
01:06:54,499 --> 01:06:54,976
founders.

1897
01:06:55,786 --> 01:06:56,286
And

1898
01:06:57,136 --> 01:06:58,033
I just always

1899
01:06:58,804 --> 01:06:59,201
reminded,

1900
01:06:59,677 --> 01:07:01,346
it's just how grateful I am to them,

1901
01:07:01,981 --> 01:07:02,719
and just

1902
01:07:03,904 --> 01:07:06,061
they have the courage to stick their necks

1903
01:07:06,061 --> 01:07:06,561
out

1904
01:07:07,180 --> 01:07:08,458
and make the future different.

1905
01:07:09,177 --> 01:07:11,095
If it weren't for people who want to

1906
01:07:11,095 --> 01:07:13,424
make this future different and have the courage

1907
01:07:13,424 --> 01:07:13,903
to try.

1908
01:07:14,621 --> 01:07:15,121
And

1909
01:07:15,578 --> 01:07:16,536
against all odds,

1910
01:07:17,094 --> 01:07:18,291
try to make it come about.

1911
01:07:19,103 --> 01:07:21,411
We'd still be sitting in caves, you know,

1912
01:07:21,969 --> 01:07:24,277
drawn pictures on the cave walls, and maybe

1913
01:07:24,277 --> 01:07:26,449
maybe somebody, somebody will come up with fire

1914
01:07:26,918 --> 01:07:28,509
but it would just be a very different

1915
01:07:28,509 --> 01:07:31,371
world. And so, you know, the abundance and

1916
01:07:31,371 --> 01:07:33,757
the the the the things that we enjoy

1917
01:07:33,757 --> 01:07:34,576
in our lives

1918
01:07:35,602 --> 01:07:37,592
come from the fact that some people dare

1919
01:07:37,592 --> 01:07:39,581
to be different. They they dare to make

1920
01:07:39,581 --> 01:07:42,287
a radical difference, but being radically different. And

1921
01:07:42,287 --> 01:07:44,615
so just if anybody listening to this is

1922
01:07:44,615 --> 01:07:46,471
1 of those people. I just wanted to,

1923
01:07:46,769 --> 01:07:49,742
you know, just offer my just deepest gratitude.

1924
01:07:50,851 --> 01:07:52,758
You're fighting the good fight. I could... You

1925
01:07:52,758 --> 01:07:54,427
can't guarantee that you're gonna win or not

1926
01:07:54,427 --> 01:07:56,335
win, but you're sure is hell fighting in

1927
01:07:56,335 --> 01:07:58,004
a good fight. You're fighting a fight worth

1928
01:07:58,004 --> 01:07:58,242
fighting.

1929
01:07:59,689 --> 01:08:00,646
I couldn't agree more.

1930
01:08:01,603 --> 01:08:02,082
Mike Maple,

1931
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:04,793
thank you for writing this book. I've been

1932
01:08:04,793 --> 01:08:06,650
waiting for this book for 20 something.

1933
01:08:08,064 --> 01:08:09,361
And it's finally here

1934
01:08:10,071 --> 01:08:11,264
And then let Me say this to too,

1935
01:08:11,344 --> 01:08:12,537
actually, I don't think I've said this to

1936
01:08:12,537 --> 01:08:13,833
you before. I think

1937
01:08:14,367 --> 01:08:16,378
more than any book that's come out

1938
01:08:17,644 --> 01:08:18,519
since play bigger.

1939
01:08:19,632 --> 01:08:20,610
This is

1940
01:08:21,462 --> 01:08:22,599
the most powerful

1941
01:08:24,182 --> 01:08:24,682
adjacent

1942
01:08:25,377 --> 01:08:28,662
work to category design. I actually view it

1943
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:29,300
frankly

1944
01:08:29,675 --> 01:08:31,346
as part of category design.

1945
01:08:32,475 --> 01:08:33,748
I just think it's so great.

1946
01:08:34,385 --> 01:08:35,657
And I think the more...

1947
01:08:36,692 --> 01:08:37,487
Let me say it this way.

1948
01:08:39,568 --> 01:08:42,426
The vast majority of business content that gets

1949
01:08:42,426 --> 01:08:42,926
created

1950
01:08:44,252 --> 01:08:46,180
is written for and by

1951
01:08:47,607 --> 01:08:49,123
people who extend the present.

1952
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:50,560
Yeah.

1953
01:08:51,917 --> 01:08:54,551
And so if you're somebody who says, hey,

1954
01:08:54,711 --> 01:08:58,581
listen. I wanna create exponentially different futures and

1955
01:08:58,881 --> 01:09:01,038
new massive new value as a result of

1956
01:09:01,038 --> 01:09:03,935
that, and I wanna consume non consensus

1957
01:09:04,488 --> 01:09:05,706
non obvious

1958
01:09:06,403 --> 01:09:09,354
content that helps me think in ortho ways

1959
01:09:09,354 --> 01:09:11,108
about how to design different futures.

1960
01:09:12,464 --> 01:09:13,341
I'll tell you this, Mike.

1961
01:09:14,314 --> 01:09:15,832
They're ain't a lot of content for that

1962
01:09:15,832 --> 01:09:16,152
person.

1963
01:09:17,590 --> 01:09:19,667
There really isn't. Yeah. It's too bad.

1964
01:09:20,466 --> 01:09:20,705
Well,

1965
01:09:21,596 --> 01:09:23,663
and we're changing it and you're changing it.

1966
01:09:23,822 --> 01:09:25,173
We're trying to change it. Right?

1967
01:09:25,810 --> 01:09:28,511
But most business books just skew the obvious

1968
01:09:28,511 --> 01:09:29,943
that most people already know.

1969
01:09:30,992 --> 01:09:32,981
This is very different than that. They try

1970
01:09:32,981 --> 01:09:35,609
to come up with saying something that's been

1971
01:09:35,609 --> 01:09:37,598
said already, but in a way that resonates

1972
01:09:37,598 --> 01:09:39,844
in a new way. And like, that's that's

1973
01:09:39,844 --> 01:09:42,495
not what... To me, that's not the interesting

1974
01:09:42,952 --> 01:09:45,842
challenge here. It's it's to help people understand

1975
01:09:46,631 --> 01:09:48,697
in a better way the mindset that leads

1976
01:09:48,697 --> 01:09:49,356
to breakthroughs,

1977
01:09:50,287 --> 01:09:52,139
and the mindset that leads to,

1978
01:09:52,592 --> 01:09:54,819
you know, actual the desire to create a

1979
01:09:54,819 --> 01:09:56,528
radical their and to avoid

1980
01:09:56,905 --> 01:09:59,537
the temptation to pursue things that aren't worth

1981
01:09:59,537 --> 01:10:01,371
of your time and talent. That's right.

1982
01:10:02,248 --> 01:10:03,923
And let me ask you this 1 last

1983
01:10:03,923 --> 01:10:04,640
question maybe.

1984
01:10:06,092 --> 01:10:07,630
I remember in 1 of our prior

1985
01:10:08,007 --> 01:10:09,444
conversations. I think we were talking about.

1986
01:10:10,322 --> 01:10:11,997
What's the name of the company doing the

1987
01:10:11,997 --> 01:10:14,798
supersonic jet again? Oh, boom super supersonic. Yeah.

1988
01:10:14,957 --> 01:10:15,434
Yeah. Yeah.

1989
01:10:16,627 --> 01:10:18,478
And I remember you're talking about

1990
01:10:19,408 --> 01:10:20,942
how long ago it was

1991
01:10:21,475 --> 01:10:22,213
that this

1992
01:10:22,524 --> 01:10:23,896
capability was created

1993
01:10:24,429 --> 01:10:24,929
and

1994
01:10:25,462 --> 01:10:27,526
that we don't have it anymore, and we

1995
01:10:27,526 --> 01:10:28,582
sort of went backwards

1996
01:10:29,114 --> 01:10:29,988
for quite a while.

1997
01:10:30,877 --> 01:10:32,789
And you got emotional about that?

1998
01:10:34,781 --> 01:10:36,636
And so what is it about

1999
01:10:38,702 --> 01:10:39,442
the people

2000
01:10:40,059 --> 01:10:41,596
and the difference that they make

2001
01:10:42,693 --> 01:10:45,726
who move humanity so far forward like this.

2002
01:10:47,172 --> 01:10:47,672
That

2003
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:50,583
makes a guy like you with an iq

2004
01:10:50,583 --> 01:10:51,139
like yours,

2005
01:10:52,170 --> 01:10:52,963
kinda tear up.

2006
01:10:53,933 --> 01:10:55,050
Yeah. I guess it's that,

2007
01:10:57,602 --> 01:10:59,037
you know, it reminds me of that book

2008
01:10:59,037 --> 01:11:00,872
that I like Jonathan Living in Seagull, right,

2009
01:11:01,032 --> 01:11:02,946
about this Seagull who wants to fly faster

2010
01:11:02,946 --> 01:11:05,502
than any birds ever flown. Right? In june

2011
01:11:05,502 --> 01:11:07,722
bach. Yeah. It's a great book. Right? And

2012
01:11:07,722 --> 01:11:09,150
and I was lucky enough to get to

2013
01:11:09,150 --> 01:11:11,292
know him. He helped me... I was trying

2014
01:11:11,292 --> 01:11:12,896
to figure out what to ins ent on

2015
01:11:12,896 --> 01:11:15,202
the inside of Julie's ring, and I was

2016
01:11:15,759 --> 01:11:17,905
having a little bit of a writer's block.

2017
01:11:18,462 --> 01:11:20,783
And we had traded so messages back and

2018
01:11:20,783 --> 01:11:22,693
forth over the year. So you Richard Ba?

2019
01:11:23,170 --> 01:11:25,556
Yeah. Yeah. So friends with Richard Ba?

2020
01:11:26,193 --> 01:11:26,351
Well,

2021
01:11:27,002 --> 01:11:29,697
Friendly. Frank. Friendly. Yeah, for sure. I didn't

2022
01:11:29,697 --> 01:11:31,440
know that. Mike. He's 1 of my heroes.

2023
01:11:31,599 --> 01:11:33,422
That's a amazing. He's awesome. Yeah. It's may...

2024
01:11:33,580 --> 01:11:35,498
And so you know, back to Jonathan Livingston

2025
01:11:35,498 --> 01:11:37,086
a seagull. Right? It was... My dad had

2026
01:11:37,086 --> 01:11:38,117
it when I was a little kid, and

2027
01:11:38,197 --> 01:11:39,306
I saw it, and I asked him what

2028
01:11:39,306 --> 01:11:40,894
it was about, and he said, you know,

2029
01:11:41,211 --> 01:11:43,212
classic Mike Maple Senior why don't you read

2030
01:11:43,212 --> 01:11:44,646
it? You tell me what it's about. So

2031
01:11:44,806 --> 01:11:46,081
I read it. And

2032
01:11:46,957 --> 01:11:49,348
and what I took away from Jonathan Livingston

2033
01:11:49,348 --> 01:11:49,906
in Siegel,

2034
01:11:50,559 --> 01:11:52,791
and it relates to boom supersonic. It relates

2035
01:11:52,791 --> 01:11:54,225
to all these other things is that

2036
01:11:55,421 --> 01:11:58,312
the limits that we experience in the world

2037
01:11:58,784 --> 01:12:00,542
are not really limits of the world itself,

2038
01:12:00,702 --> 01:12:02,780
it's the limitations of our own mind and

2039
01:12:02,780 --> 01:12:04,858
our own expectations of what's possible.

2040
01:12:05,497 --> 01:12:07,015
And if you break the chains of your

2041
01:12:07,015 --> 01:12:09,264
own self imposed limit, you break all the

2042
01:12:09,264 --> 01:12:09,764
chains

2043
01:12:10,541 --> 01:12:11,041
from

2044
01:12:11,418 --> 01:12:13,572
achieving what you wanna achieve. And so I

2045
01:12:13,572 --> 01:12:15,805
get inspired and emotional about people like Blake

2046
01:12:15,885 --> 01:12:17,001
Sc boom supersonic,

2047
01:12:17,892 --> 01:12:19,484
because he's willing to depart from the flock.

2048
01:12:19,643 --> 01:12:20,756
He's willing to say, you know,

2049
01:12:21,472 --> 01:12:23,222
the amount of time from the wright brothers

2050
01:12:23,222 --> 01:12:24,894
to the Concord is the same as the

2051
01:12:24,894 --> 01:12:26,246
amount of time for the Concorde to today.

2052
01:12:26,739 --> 01:12:27,539
That's bullshit.

2053
01:12:28,100 --> 01:12:30,020
I don't believe that that is a valid

2054
01:12:30,020 --> 01:12:32,420
way of assuming the world. I think that's

2055
01:12:32,420 --> 01:12:34,579
a bunch of self imposed limits that don't

2056
01:12:34,579 --> 01:12:36,350
have to be and I'm gonna break them.

2057
01:12:36,509 --> 01:12:38,260
I'm gonna break the change of those limitations,

2058
01:12:38,658 --> 01:12:40,649
watch me. And it's just like, I just

2059
01:12:40,649 --> 01:12:42,161
love people like that. I just think that

2060
01:12:42,161 --> 01:12:42,878
people like that.

2061
01:12:43,768 --> 01:12:45,676
Are honoring the gift of their short time

2062
01:12:45,676 --> 01:12:47,742
in this world by making it count.

2063
01:12:48,377 --> 01:12:51,476
And so and and by pursuing a world

2064
01:12:51,476 --> 01:12:52,192
of no limits,

2065
01:12:53,083 --> 01:12:55,180
rather than resigning to themselves

2066
01:12:55,558 --> 01:12:56,457
to succeeding

2067
01:12:56,836 --> 01:12:58,671
within a set of limits that somebody else

2068
01:12:58,671 --> 01:13:00,747
imposed on them. And so so I just

2069
01:13:00,907 --> 01:13:02,435
I just love people like that. Right. I

2070
01:13:02,435 --> 01:13:04,337
just love it. And so, you know, that's

2071
01:13:04,337 --> 01:13:06,240
my story and I'm sticking to it. It's

2072
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:07,113
a hell of a story.

2073
01:13:08,143 --> 01:13:08,618
Well, Mike,

2074
01:13:10,143 --> 01:13:10,781
god bless you.

2075
01:13:11,738 --> 01:13:14,131
Thank you so much. Thank you so much

2076
01:13:14,131 --> 01:13:15,088
for writing this book,

2077
01:13:16,125 --> 01:13:18,279
and to quote my dear friend, Bill Walton.

2078
01:13:18,518 --> 01:13:21,006
You know, I you know I feel about

2079
01:13:21,006 --> 01:13:22,042
you and our relationship,

2080
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:23,637
and so to quote, Bill,

2081
01:13:24,435 --> 01:13:25,312
Thank you for my life.

2082
01:13:27,226 --> 01:13:29,061
Man, you're gonna... That to get me choked

2083
01:13:29,061 --> 01:13:29,220
up.

2084
01:13:30,832 --> 01:13:32,747
Yeah. Well, thanks for having me Christopher, and

2085
01:13:32,747 --> 01:13:33,704
it's always been

2086
01:13:34,502 --> 01:13:36,177
gotcha Known each other for more than 2

2087
01:13:36,177 --> 01:13:36,895
decades now.

2088
01:13:37,707 --> 01:13:41,074
And you know, I've always had the greatest

2089
01:13:41,132 --> 01:13:42,987
regard for you and always been

2090
01:13:43,521 --> 01:13:45,114
so grateful that I got to know you

2091
01:13:45,114 --> 01:13:46,960
earlier in my career. It would have been

2092
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:48,233
a shame to get to know who this

2093
01:13:48,233 --> 01:13:50,698
late and realize how much fun times we

2094
01:13:50,698 --> 01:13:52,925
could had. And so I'm glad that we've

2095
01:13:52,925 --> 01:13:54,140
gotten to have him and

2096
01:13:54,768 --> 01:13:56,359
you know, maybe maybe How do a better

2097
01:13:56,359 --> 01:13:56,836
job of

2098
01:13:58,585 --> 01:14:00,095
showing up more often, so we could do

2099
01:14:00,095 --> 01:14:02,162
more stuff. That'd be great. Imagine if we

2100
01:14:02,162 --> 01:14:04,328
can make the 20 years even more legendary

2101
01:14:04,328 --> 01:14:06,560
than the last. Hot damn. Let's do it.

2102
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:09,510
Mike Maple. Thank you so much. Alright. Thanks,

2103
01:14:09,670 --> 01:14:10,627
Chris. Good to see you.

2104
01:14:11,678 --> 01:14:14,229
That was the legendary Mike Maple junior.

2105
01:14:14,866 --> 01:14:17,337
Now run, don't walk to your nearest books

2106
01:14:17,337 --> 01:14:20,465
seller today. Right now, and get your copy

2107
01:14:20,465 --> 01:14:23,425
of pattern breakers while some startups change the

2108
01:14:23,425 --> 01:14:23,664
future.

2109
01:14:24,545 --> 01:14:26,864
And don't forget podcasts make great gifts.

2110
01:14:27,358 --> 01:14:29,576
Share 2 podcasts you love with 2 people

2111
01:14:29,576 --> 01:14:31,478
you love, and make sure you follow us

2112
01:14:31,478 --> 01:14:33,458
today on your podcast player of choice.

2113
01:14:34,662 --> 01:14:37,284
We'd like to thank you. We appreciate you

2114
01:14:37,284 --> 01:14:39,668
investing part of your life with us. Are

2115
01:14:39,668 --> 01:14:41,789
you feeling buried under a mountain of tasks

2116
01:14:42,149 --> 01:14:45,109
As an overworked entrepreneur, you know every minute

2117
01:14:45,109 --> 01:14:45,350
counts,

2118
01:14:45,909 --> 01:14:49,189
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2119
01:14:49,189 --> 01:14:50,550
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2120
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2122
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2123
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2126
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2127
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2128
01:15:12,747 --> 01:15:14,736
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Well then visit at dot net. Their proven

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methodology will elevate your site from mundane to

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extraordinary in just weeks.

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Start your journey to an epic web presence

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at at dot net that's at TRE dot

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net. And are you ready to unlock the

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ultimate superpower in business category design will then

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enter the world of the category pirates.

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Discover how to create transformative

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futures and dominate markets with the premier business

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newsletter crafted by and 4 pirates.

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Head over to category pirates dot com today

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and set your business on the path to

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greatness,

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and there's more.

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Newsletter subscribers now get access to free audio

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mini books.

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And while you're at category pirates dot com,

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check out all the books and the new

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courses, it's the mother load of category design

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treasure.

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01:16:18,968 --> 01:16:21,373
Today's information is provided to use solely for

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01:16:21,429 --> 01:16:22,143
informational purposes.

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01:16:22,540 --> 01:16:24,365
This podcast is the sole property of the

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01:16:24,445 --> 01:16:27,082
Lock head network and it contains content known

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01:16:27,082 --> 01:16:29,150
to the state of California to cause radically

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01:16:29,150 --> 01:16:31,639
non obvious thinking, new categories and

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01:16:32,014 --> 01:16:32,571
exponential results.

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01:16:33,143 --> 01:16:36,560
All podcasts contain nuts, All rights disturbed. Please

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01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:39,025
contact your doctor or lawyer, accountant Yoga instructor

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shaman and category designer, Before doing anything about

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01:16:42,457 --> 01:16:44,204
anything you hear here today.

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01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:47,621
Warning. In California, drivers blocking traffic in the

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01:16:47,621 --> 01:16:50,100
left hand lane by law, can receive a

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01:16:50,100 --> 01:16:51,293
269

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01:16:51,293 --> 01:16:53,998
dollar fine, so please don't be lame, get

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01:16:53,998 --> 01:16:55,113
out of the passing lane.

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01:16:56,068 --> 01:16:57,659
Everything is the way that it is because

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01:16:57,659 --> 01:16:59,666
somebody changed of the way that it was.

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01:17:00,145 --> 01:17:02,377
This episode was produced and edited by Jason

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01:17:02,457 --> 01:17:05,170
D f. Sarah knocks Jamie j handled the

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01:17:05,170 --> 01:17:06,068
website and technical

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01:17:06,525 --> 01:17:09,091
execution. Show notes by Gm Simon, R and

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E x Bob to our web development. Cedric

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01:17:11,475 --> 01:17:13,859
Be does our graphic and web design. Our

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01:17:13,859 --> 01:17:15,845
law firm is Weed and Jack. Our accountants

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01:17:15,845 --> 01:17:17,929
are 3 balance sheets to the wind. We

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01:17:17,929 --> 01:17:20,087
record on squad cast dot fm. Tom White

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01:17:20,087 --> 01:17:22,323
was right. Listen to motor head. Thanks, Kent

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01:17:22,404 --> 01:17:24,321
Dandy and hate Column. This podcast cast really

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01:17:24,321 --> 01:17:27,049
ties the room together. Our deepest apologies go

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01:17:27,049 --> 01:17:29,362
out to Sam Bank freed. Sorry Sammy, We

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01:17:29,362 --> 01:17:31,197
just ran out of time for you. Till

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01:17:31,197 --> 01:17:34,068
next time. Stay safe. Stay legendary and follow

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your different.