1
00:00:00,436 --> 00:00:02,101
Smart today, we felt the need to res

2
00:00:02,101 --> 00:00:04,480
share this wonderful and important episode with you.

3
00:00:04,956 --> 00:00:06,249
Episode 201

4
00:00:06,304 --> 00:00:08,540
executive functioning with Peg Dawson. This school year

5
00:00:08,540 --> 00:00:10,605
is just around the corner and executive functioning

6
00:00:10,605 --> 00:00:12,432
is such a huge part of school and

7
00:00:12,432 --> 00:00:15,053
life success. In this episode Peg talks about

8
00:00:15,053 --> 00:00:17,435
modifying the environment, keeping the supports while habits.

9
00:00:17,689 --> 00:00:20,002
Form and how getting started is often the

10
00:00:20,002 --> 00:00:21,677
hardest part. Would you please take a minute

11
00:00:21,677 --> 00:00:23,751
to give our podcast 5 stars and leave

12
00:00:23,751 --> 00:00:25,825
a review. It really helps the podcast by

13
00:00:25,825 --> 00:00:27,834
helping others find us, and it means a

14
00:00:27,834 --> 00:00:30,231
lot to us. Without further ado, please enjoy

15
00:00:30,231 --> 00:00:33,027
this masterclass class with executive functioning extra, peg

16
00:00:33,187 --> 00:00:36,258
Dawson. Let's dig in. You want to learn

17
00:00:36,316 --> 00:00:36,816
faster,

18
00:00:37,354 --> 00:00:39,531
but sometimes working harder

19
00:00:40,308 --> 00:00:43,022
is just that the answer you have to

20
00:00:43,022 --> 00:00:43,522
learn.

21
00:00:44,394 --> 00:00:44,793
Smarter,

22
00:00:45,271 --> 00:00:46,786
the educational therapy podcast.

23
00:00:49,338 --> 00:00:51,731
Hi, Smart is Welcome to episode 321

24
00:00:51,731 --> 00:00:53,899
of Learns smarter, The educational therapy podcast. Guest.

25
00:00:54,139 --> 00:00:56,054
I'm Stephanie Pitt. And I reach rachel Kat.

26
00:00:56,214 --> 00:00:57,970
And today, we are excited to res share

27
00:00:57,970 --> 00:01:00,524
this episode because it is so wonderful, and

28
00:01:00,524 --> 00:01:03,013
it means so much and is just so

29
00:01:03,013 --> 00:01:06,124
packed with information and Peg Dawson is really

30
00:01:06,124 --> 00:01:08,118
1 of the leaders in executive functioning. So

31
00:01:08,118 --> 00:01:10,032
it was just a joy to have her

32
00:01:10,032 --> 00:01:12,345
on, and we hope you enjoy this episode.

33
00:01:14,514 --> 00:01:15,014
Smart

34
00:01:15,550 --> 00:01:19,060
today, we are beyond honored and excited to

35
00:01:19,060 --> 00:01:22,011
welcome Doctor Peg Dawson to the podcast.

36
00:01:22,744 --> 00:01:25,399
You guys know peg, Dawson, she has written

37
00:01:25,776 --> 00:01:28,888
the books on executive function skills, and as

38
00:01:28,888 --> 00:01:30,325
we talk about in this podcast,

39
00:01:30,898 --> 00:01:33,530
Why she calls some executive skills, which totally

40
00:01:33,530 --> 00:01:35,763
makes sense, and we're gonna be changing the

41
00:01:35,763 --> 00:01:38,235
name of our series to executive function skills

42
00:01:38,235 --> 00:01:40,965
from here on out. And we're... So excited

43
00:01:40,965 --> 00:01:42,584
to talk to her about

44
00:01:43,125 --> 00:01:46,185
what led her to the exploration of executive

45
00:01:46,325 --> 00:01:49,212
function skills, her framework for supporting,

46
00:01:49,930 --> 00:01:53,836
executive skills and the difference between foundational and

47
00:01:53,836 --> 00:01:56,644
advanced executive skills. Stefan and I are both

48
00:01:56,644 --> 00:01:59,524
doing this opening today because it was such

49
00:01:59,524 --> 00:02:00,185
a monumental

50
00:02:00,564 --> 00:02:02,965
episode for us right after episode 200,

51
00:02:03,364 --> 00:02:06,098
and I just wanted to publicly think stuff

52
00:02:06,098 --> 00:02:07,875
for her goal directed persistence

53
00:02:08,253 --> 00:02:08,993
and getting

54
00:02:10,169 --> 00:02:13,122
doctor Peg Dawson on the podcast because it

55
00:02:13,122 --> 00:02:14,181
was truly a coup

56
00:02:14,494 --> 00:02:18,163
and you'll hear us totally girl crushing over

57
00:02:18,163 --> 00:02:21,752
her, but it was truly a master class,

58
00:02:21,912 --> 00:02:23,427
and it was such an honor to be

59
00:02:23,427 --> 00:02:25,992
able to have this conversation with her, Steph,

60
00:02:26,151 --> 00:02:28,802
I am curious. What were your key takeaways

61
00:02:29,098 --> 00:02:31,169
from this conversation with her. And number 1,

62
00:02:31,727 --> 00:02:34,134
I have to say to tell everybody. When

63
00:02:34,134 --> 00:02:35,895
she agreed to do this, she said to

64
00:02:35,895 --> 00:02:37,335
me, I had asked her a long time

65
00:02:37,335 --> 00:02:39,735
ago. And when she came back and I

66
00:02:39,735 --> 00:02:41,735
asked her again, she said she admired my

67
00:02:41,735 --> 00:02:45,493
goal directed persistence. Mh. You guys, the verbiage.

68
00:02:46,208 --> 00:02:48,593
Is just so point. It made me so

69
00:02:48,593 --> 00:02:51,706
happy inside that she used. That language. I

70
00:02:51,706 --> 00:02:53,691
love that she said no too because no

71
00:02:53,691 --> 00:02:56,390
is a complete sentence. She did say no

72
00:02:56,390 --> 00:02:58,375
originally. But she opened the door for you

73
00:02:58,375 --> 00:03:00,137
to go back and you did. That's what

74
00:03:00,295 --> 00:03:02,596
I do. So I guess my takeaways is

75
00:03:02,596 --> 00:03:04,366
her breaking down the

76
00:03:04,977 --> 00:03:08,092
foundational skills and the advanced skills. Mh. That

77
00:03:08,252 --> 00:03:11,603
I think was really, really important. Really helpful.

78
00:03:11,922 --> 00:03:14,795
And I didn't really think about them like

79
00:03:14,795 --> 00:03:17,033
that. Hire. So I think that's gonna be

80
00:03:17,033 --> 00:03:20,207
something that's really going to direct a lot

81
00:03:20,207 --> 00:03:22,214
of my future conversations with

82
00:03:22,684 --> 00:03:25,161
my team, and I'm sure you too, and

83
00:03:25,161 --> 00:03:27,877
with my clients and parents and teachers and

84
00:03:27,877 --> 00:03:30,049
all of that. So I think that's the

85
00:03:30,049 --> 00:03:32,046
biggest takeaway I have. What about you? First

86
00:03:32,046 --> 00:03:34,043
of all, I'd love the opportunity that this

87
00:03:34,043 --> 00:03:35,960
podcast affords us to get to ask questions.

88
00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,602
Mh. To get to ask questions of why

89
00:03:38,602 --> 00:03:41,465
executive skills, why not executive functioning and her

90
00:03:41,465 --> 00:03:44,089
answer was so clear. I was thinking about

91
00:03:44,089 --> 00:03:46,179
same thing. I know you were. And

92
00:03:46,569 --> 00:03:47,686
I was like, I just need to ask.

93
00:03:47,845 --> 00:03:49,919
And what else am I given the opportunity

94
00:03:49,919 --> 00:03:51,594
to be in front of an expert of

95
00:03:51,594 --> 00:03:54,146
this caliber. Yes. And so I'm just grateful

96
00:03:54,146 --> 00:03:57,270
for this podcast for giving me that opportunity

97
00:03:57,270 --> 00:03:57,770
personally.

98
00:03:58,225 --> 00:04:00,135
And I love her answer so much. I

99
00:04:00,135 --> 00:04:01,568
loved that we got to talk to her

100
00:04:01,568 --> 00:04:03,319
about the word lazy and why that's such

101
00:04:03,319 --> 00:04:04,036
a trigger word,

102
00:04:04,608 --> 00:04:07,097
And, you know, I really really appreciated the

103
00:04:07,154 --> 00:04:08,904
conversation that we had on Patreon as well.

104
00:04:09,461 --> 00:04:11,450
On Patreon, we talked to her about what...

105
00:04:11,784 --> 00:04:15,140
Covid made her realize about executive skills. And

106
00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:17,377
I thought that was a really interesting conversation

107
00:04:17,377 --> 00:04:20,267
to have, because I agree. Yeah. And... But

108
00:04:20,347 --> 00:04:21,943
I hadn't thought about it in such a

109
00:04:21,943 --> 00:04:23,938
concrete way. And as you know, steph, I

110
00:04:23,938 --> 00:04:25,614
love when people come on the podcast,

111
00:04:26,093 --> 00:04:27,504
and it feels like I'm in a college

112
00:04:27,624 --> 00:04:29,459
cost again, and that's what this episodes and

113
00:04:29,459 --> 00:04:30,278
the Patreon

114
00:04:30,815 --> 00:04:33,287
conversation felt like for me. And then the

115
00:04:33,287 --> 00:04:35,462
other thing that I really appreciated about our

116
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,490
conversation on Patreon is she talked about how

117
00:04:37,849 --> 00:04:41,365
her work informed parenting and how parenting informed

118
00:04:41,365 --> 00:04:43,703
her work. Mh. And that was really, really

119
00:04:43,923 --> 00:04:46,160
nice to be able to have that dialogue

120
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:47,929
with her as well. If you are not

121
00:04:47,929 --> 00:04:50,077
yet a part of our patreon, go to

122
00:04:50,077 --> 00:04:51,111
WWW

123
00:04:51,111 --> 00:04:53,736
dot patreon dot com slash learn smarter podcast.

124
00:04:54,148 --> 00:04:56,692
You can get access to that extended conversation

125
00:04:56,692 --> 00:04:57,805
with doctor Peg dawson,

126
00:04:58,521 --> 00:05:01,167
and all of the previous earlier extended

127
00:05:01,541 --> 00:05:03,211
conversations for 5 dollar a month.

128
00:05:04,181 --> 00:05:06,170
Donation that supports the work that we do

129
00:05:06,170 --> 00:05:07,841
here on the podcast. And as a reminder,

130
00:05:07,921 --> 00:05:10,547
if you want early access to episodes because

131
00:05:10,547 --> 00:05:12,957
you guys know we are done in advanced

132
00:05:13,509 --> 00:05:15,189
especially now that you know that we recorded

133
00:05:15,189 --> 00:05:16,470
6 months so that I could have a

134
00:05:16,470 --> 00:05:19,769
6 month maternity leave, you can also get

135
00:05:20,149 --> 00:05:22,485
episodes a week early, and that is for

136
00:05:22,485 --> 00:05:24,564
a 10 dollar a month donation, and, yes,

137
00:05:24,884 --> 00:05:25,705
you still

138
00:05:26,084 --> 00:05:27,865
will get access to all those earlier

139
00:05:28,165 --> 00:05:30,418
conversations you can scroll back. On everything that

140
00:05:30,418 --> 00:05:31,856
we have posted on Patreon.

141
00:05:32,495 --> 00:05:34,813
So honored to have Doctor Peg dawson on

142
00:05:34,813 --> 00:05:37,150
the podcast. I hope she will come back

143
00:05:37,624 --> 00:05:38,980
Maybe she will, but, you know what? I

144
00:05:38,980 --> 00:05:40,735
think this is 1 of those episodes where

145
00:05:40,735 --> 00:05:42,808
you guys sit back, listen,

146
00:05:43,686 --> 00:05:45,361
take it in, and then listen again.

147
00:05:47,529 --> 00:05:49,921
Hi, Sp. Welcome to episode 201 of Learns

148
00:05:49,921 --> 00:05:52,393
smarter at the Educational Therapy Podcast. I'm Stephanie

149
00:05:52,552 --> 00:05:55,822
Pitt. And my rachel cap. And today, we

150
00:05:55,822 --> 00:05:56,140
have...

151
00:05:56,634 --> 00:05:59,819
Peg, Dawson with us. Hi peg. Hello, everyone.

152
00:06:00,297 --> 00:06:01,093
Nice of be here.

153
00:06:01,969 --> 00:06:02,288
Yay.

154
00:06:03,562 --> 00:06:03,960
Hey.

155
00:06:05,329 --> 00:06:07,956
We've been very excited. Steps up me a

156
00:06:07,956 --> 00:06:08,752
attacks when

157
00:06:09,150 --> 00:06:11,300
you agree just like a got picked off

158
00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:12,972
and I was so excited.

159
00:06:13,704 --> 00:06:16,182
So thank you for taking the time to

160
00:06:16,182 --> 00:06:18,659
come mom with us. We're very honored to

161
00:06:18,659 --> 00:06:20,177
have you. And,

162
00:06:20,737 --> 00:06:22,815
why don't we start off by having Tell.

163
00:06:23,466 --> 00:06:24,814
Who you are and what you do and

164
00:06:24,814 --> 00:06:27,273
who you do for. Okay. Sure. So my

165
00:06:27,273 --> 00:06:28,805
background is school psychology.

166
00:06:29,177 --> 00:06:31,985
I work. For 16 years as a school

167
00:06:31,985 --> 00:06:33,985
psychologist in the public schools in Maine in

168
00:06:34,064 --> 00:06:36,145
New Hampshire, which is the Area I'm from.

169
00:06:36,785 --> 00:06:39,504
And then I joined my colleague and ultimately

170
00:06:39,504 --> 00:06:41,583
my, C author, a guy named Doctor Ware

171
00:06:41,583 --> 00:06:43,804
or Dick ware. We had a private practice

172
00:06:43,804 --> 00:06:45,232
for Ron, then we merged to the local

173
00:06:45,391 --> 00:06:46,714
Community Mental Health Center. C

174
00:06:47,473 --> 00:06:49,391
in ports of New Hampshire. And and that

175
00:06:49,471 --> 00:06:51,628
Ce Mental Health Center where. We both work

176
00:06:51,628 --> 00:06:53,465
on a very part time basis at this

177
00:06:53,465 --> 00:06:53,759
point

178
00:06:54,359 --> 00:06:57,256
So in that work, has spent much of

179
00:06:57,315 --> 00:07:00,031
my career doing assessments for kids with learning

180
00:07:00,031 --> 00:07:01,070
and attention problems.

181
00:07:01,725 --> 00:07:02,225
And

182
00:07:02,604 --> 00:07:05,084
that's what brought me to executive skills, particularly

183
00:07:05,084 --> 00:07:08,444
working with kids with Adhd. I feel quickly

184
00:07:08,444 --> 00:07:10,144
realized that the American Psychiatric

185
00:07:10,685 --> 00:07:11,060
Association

186
00:07:11,575 --> 00:07:14,194
criteria for Adhd, which is problems with attention

187
00:07:14,194 --> 00:07:15,329
or problems with hyper

188
00:07:15,702 --> 00:07:18,400
impulses be or both really didn't begin to

189
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:19,923
describe the problems I saw these diagnostic it's

190
00:07:19,923 --> 00:07:21,912
having. I saw huge problems with time management

191
00:07:21,912 --> 00:07:23,901
and planning an organization and those kinds of

192
00:07:23,901 --> 00:07:25,810
things. And I remember talking my colleague Dick

193
00:07:25,810 --> 00:07:27,418
about at the time. It's Now and I

194
00:07:27,418 --> 00:07:29,174
boasted our doctor work at the university of

195
00:07:29,414 --> 00:07:31,090
Virginia although we were there at different times,

196
00:07:31,250 --> 00:07:32,527
but he went on to do a post

197
00:07:32,527 --> 00:07:35,481
doc in neuro psychology at children's Hospital in

198
00:07:35,641 --> 00:07:35,960
Boston.

199
00:07:36,533 --> 00:07:37,984
So as I was describing

200
00:07:38,594 --> 00:07:40,417
these issues, he said, well back. Those are

201
00:07:40,417 --> 00:07:42,954
executive skills. Well, this was the late eighties

202
00:07:42,954 --> 00:07:45,269
early nineties and people... Not using that term

203
00:07:45,269 --> 00:07:47,094
much in those days. So, Dick and I

204
00:07:47,094 --> 00:07:49,157
decided we really wanted to understand this field

205
00:07:49,157 --> 00:07:50,823
a whole lot better. We wanna know what

206
00:07:50,823 --> 00:07:51,878
are these skills

207
00:07:52,331 --> 00:07:52,464
for

208
00:07:53,140 --> 00:07:55,049
and develop what's going on in the brain,

209
00:07:55,606 --> 00:07:57,832
how do they impact school performance? And most

210
00:07:57,832 --> 00:07:59,343
importantly, how do you help kids with week

211
00:07:59,343 --> 00:08:01,888
executives skills become more successful students?

212
00:08:02,539 --> 00:08:03,658
And so that's what led to our writing.

213
00:08:03,818 --> 00:08:05,416
And we've written any number of books now

214
00:08:05,416 --> 00:08:07,894
on executive skills. It geared to different audiences.

215
00:08:08,133 --> 00:08:10,051
The first 1 we wrote was for professionals

216
00:08:10,051 --> 00:08:12,865
called executive skills and children adolescents,

217
00:08:13,425 --> 00:08:15,504
that 1 is now into its third edition.

218
00:08:15,745 --> 00:08:17,264
But after writing that, we realized there was

219
00:08:17,264 --> 00:08:18,704
a huge role for parents and all of

220
00:08:18,704 --> 00:08:20,785
this. So that's what led us write Smart

221
00:08:20,785 --> 00:08:21,105
scattered.

222
00:08:21,757 --> 00:08:23,741
I'm a recently smart Scattered teens.

223
00:08:24,456 --> 00:08:26,202
We've also written a couple of books aimed

224
00:08:26,202 --> 00:08:28,187
more in adult population. We have a book

225
00:08:28,187 --> 00:08:28,822
on coaching.

226
00:08:29,314 --> 00:08:30,744
We have a plan that goes along with

227
00:08:30,744 --> 00:08:32,810
our coaching model. And I guess the 1

228
00:08:32,810 --> 00:08:34,717
other thing I should mention just because it

229
00:08:34,717 --> 00:08:36,782
often comes up in conversations. At the same

230
00:08:36,782 --> 00:08:38,709
time, I was doing all this... Professionally, I

231
00:08:38,709 --> 00:08:40,946
was raising 2 kids of my own. I

232
00:08:40,946 --> 00:08:42,544
have 2 sons who are now well into

233
00:08:42,544 --> 00:08:44,222
adulthood, but my older son at the age

234
00:08:44,222 --> 00:08:46,700
of 14 was diagnosed with an attention disorder.

235
00:08:47,274 --> 00:08:49,032
So I actually feel like a lot of

236
00:08:49,032 --> 00:08:51,269
what I've learned about executive skills, particularly in

237
00:08:51,269 --> 00:08:53,346
the intervention side has come as much from

238
00:08:53,346 --> 00:08:55,758
my experiences a mom. As my experience is

239
00:08:55,758 --> 00:08:56,637
a psychologist.

240
00:08:57,197 --> 00:08:59,115
And I do a lot of parent presentations.

241
00:08:59,435 --> 00:09:00,873
And and when I tell parents is, and

242
00:09:00,953 --> 00:09:01,992
I say about being my mom. With 1

243
00:09:01,992 --> 00:09:03,451
of these kids is you get the longitudinal

244
00:09:03,830 --> 00:09:04,150
perspective,

245
00:09:04,643 --> 00:09:05,838
You get to see what they like when

246
00:09:05,838 --> 00:09:07,990
they grow up. It's true. And I tell

247
00:09:07,990 --> 00:09:09,822
my audience is all the time. Most of

248
00:09:09,822 --> 00:09:12,306
these kids turn out fine. Yep. You know,

249
00:09:12,465 --> 00:09:14,213
some need a little help along the way

250
00:09:14,213 --> 00:09:16,836
and certainly, at therapists are great source for

251
00:09:16,836 --> 00:09:18,902
that assistance. I've been a couple of workshops.

252
00:09:19,554 --> 00:09:21,951
In, I think California and Texas for ed

253
00:09:21,951 --> 00:09:24,587
therapist. And we don't have many of those

254
00:09:24,587 --> 00:09:27,395
in the northeast. So when I first started

255
00:09:27,395 --> 00:09:30,015
doing those workshops and talking with people about

256
00:09:30,015 --> 00:09:32,078
what is it there anyway. I realized, oh,

257
00:09:32,237 --> 00:09:34,324
it's such a nice fit for

258
00:09:34,950 --> 00:09:38,278
our work and for getting our work 2

259
00:09:38,278 --> 00:09:40,894
kids and to schools, you know, to get

260
00:09:40,894 --> 00:09:41,607
them the help they need.

261
00:09:42,420 --> 00:09:44,660
So that's sorry in a nutshell. Yeah.

262
00:09:45,220 --> 00:09:48,899
I love you most kids. Yeah. Just fine.

263
00:09:49,139 --> 00:09:51,467
Yeah. So let's just repeat that for everybody.

264
00:09:51,786 --> 00:09:54,016
Yep. Most kids are not just fine. Yeah.

265
00:09:54,574 --> 00:09:56,326
Because they're so worried. I get it though.

266
00:09:56,566 --> 00:09:58,977
Yep. Your book is like the Bible of

267
00:09:59,527 --> 00:10:02,547
executive functioning skills. Right? This is where everybody

268
00:10:02,547 --> 00:10:05,646
starts, everybody gets the foundation from you.

269
00:10:07,014 --> 00:10:09,514
So 1 of the things that we're really

270
00:10:09,575 --> 00:10:10,875
interested in is

271
00:10:11,575 --> 00:10:13,174
how they show up in school,

272
00:10:14,469 --> 00:10:15,767
and daily living

273
00:10:16,226 --> 00:10:18,463
because they go hand in hand and a

274
00:10:18,463 --> 00:10:21,590
lot of people don't realize they go hand

275
00:10:21,590 --> 00:10:23,917
in hand. So what do you tell

276
00:10:24,529 --> 00:10:26,698
parents who are experiencing

277
00:10:27,787 --> 00:10:30,185
a lot of struggle at home, or the

278
00:10:30,185 --> 00:10:32,592
kids aren't doing as well as they hope

279
00:10:32,807 --> 00:10:33,920
in the classroom.

280
00:10:34,397 --> 00:10:36,883
Yeah. And that's a really good question because

281
00:10:37,273 --> 00:10:40,065
they may show up differently at home schools

282
00:10:40,065 --> 00:10:42,399
sometimes more see it more than

283
00:10:42,777 --> 00:10:44,952
schools do particularly in the early years

284
00:10:45,489 --> 00:10:48,050
because in a way, what schools do is

285
00:10:48,050 --> 00:10:48,867
they provide

286
00:10:49,636 --> 00:10:51,936
additional structure and support for kids. So they

287
00:10:51,936 --> 00:10:54,395
sort of scaffold what they're asking kids to

288
00:10:54,395 --> 00:10:56,961
do. Schools And so some of these kids

289
00:10:56,961 --> 00:10:59,137
can get by for a while in school

290
00:10:59,356 --> 00:11:01,192
with just what teachers do naturally in the

291
00:11:01,192 --> 00:11:01,671
classroom.

292
00:11:02,070 --> 00:11:04,225
But parents are often seeing it at home.

293
00:11:04,878 --> 00:11:07,742
So I actually... When I'm doing an evaluation

294
00:11:07,742 --> 00:11:10,049
and interviewing parents, I'm asking them a whole

295
00:11:10,049 --> 00:11:11,401
lot more about what's going on at home

296
00:11:11,401 --> 00:11:13,012
than what's... Going on of school. Mh mh.

297
00:11:13,251 --> 00:11:14,848
I do ask about school, and I collect

298
00:11:14,848 --> 00:11:16,684
a lot of information from the school as

299
00:11:16,684 --> 00:11:19,318
well because that's really important. But the questions

300
00:11:19,398 --> 00:11:21,249
I ask parents to get at what's going

301
00:11:21,249 --> 00:11:23,001
on at home. I asked them about homework,

302
00:11:23,081 --> 00:11:24,537
of course, because

303
00:11:25,073 --> 00:11:27,543
kids need the higher level executive skills to

304
00:11:27,543 --> 00:11:30,025
do homework going especially if they're expected to

305
00:11:30,025 --> 00:11:32,014
do it independently, then they need to do

306
00:11:32,014 --> 00:11:34,559
school work. So you're gonna see problems there.

307
00:11:34,957 --> 00:11:37,757
I asked skip about daily routines? Like, how

308
00:11:37,757 --> 00:11:39,587
does your child to handle getting ready for

309
00:11:39,587 --> 00:11:41,417
school in the morning or getting ready for

310
00:11:41,417 --> 00:11:42,611
bed or handling meal times,

311
00:11:43,184 --> 00:11:45,199
because all of those require

312
00:11:45,576 --> 00:11:49,006
some critical executive skills. My ass got chores.

313
00:11:49,166 --> 00:11:51,000
Mh. Our kids asked you do chores. I

314
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:52,356
mean, I'm in sort of a big believer

315
00:11:52,356 --> 00:11:53,960
in chores because it's a great way to

316
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,101
learn executive skills. Mh. And mean it takes

317
00:11:56,101 --> 00:11:58,004
time and effort to make kids do chores

318
00:11:58,163 --> 00:12:00,835
Kiosk. And with the busy parents, that x

319
00:12:01,113 --> 00:12:02,785
time is something, they feel like, they don't

320
00:12:02,785 --> 00:12:03,979
have to put in and so they end

321
00:12:03,979 --> 00:12:06,049
up doing 4 kids, You know, the kinds

322
00:12:06,049 --> 00:12:07,880
of things that kids probably need to learn

323
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,047
to do on their own. Those are the

324
00:12:10,047 --> 00:12:12,918
basic sort of venues where executive skill challenges

325
00:12:12,918 --> 00:12:15,949
will present themselves at home. And then, of

326
00:12:15,949 --> 00:12:17,863
course, I'm getting further information. I mean, when

327
00:12:17,943 --> 00:12:19,953
I'm doing an interview, I'm not just asking

328
00:12:19,953 --> 00:12:22,108
about executive skills in general, I'm trying to

329
00:12:22,108 --> 00:12:24,104
pinpoint what exec skills are we talking about.

330
00:12:24,583 --> 00:12:26,659
So if the kids bedroom is a disaster,

331
00:12:26,899 --> 00:12:30,450
I'm immediately thinking organization. If the kid is

332
00:12:30,669 --> 00:12:32,990
continually forgetting to bring stuff to her from

333
00:12:32,990 --> 00:12:35,870
school or forgetting instructions from homework, then I'm

334
00:12:35,870 --> 00:12:36,990
thinking working memory.

335
00:12:37,403 --> 00:12:39,234
If the kid is leaving home till just

336
00:12:39,234 --> 00:12:41,780
before bedtime, then I'm thinking, oh, this sounds

337
00:12:41,780 --> 00:12:44,088
like a problem with task initiation. So all

338
00:12:44,088 --> 00:12:46,475
of those questions I'm asking parents are off...

339
00:12:46,569 --> 00:12:48,240
Also helping me sort of 0 in a...

340
00:12:48,638 --> 00:12:51,286
Okay. Which executive skills are the biggest concern

341
00:12:51,502 --> 00:12:52,855
and then, you know, what do we do

342
00:12:52,855 --> 00:12:54,944
about them? But take a step back even

343
00:12:54,944 --> 00:12:57,105
though we're sure that our audience has richard

344
00:12:57,105 --> 00:12:57,424
books.

345
00:12:58,225 --> 00:13:01,105
Can you give us an overview of the

346
00:13:01,105 --> 00:13:04,240
executive skills you see them. Okay. Sure. So

347
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,240
first of all, their brain based skills. I'm

348
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,000
sure, and again, if people in our books

349
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,759
at all. They know that it managed out

350
00:13:09,759 --> 00:13:11,120
of the front lobes of the brain, which

351
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:12,568
is the part of the brain right behind

352
00:13:12,568 --> 00:13:16,006
the forehead. That another really important piece of

353
00:13:16,221 --> 00:13:18,604
information for both parents and teachers understand as

354
00:13:18,604 --> 00:13:20,907
these skills take 25 years at a minimum

355
00:13:20,907 --> 00:13:23,701
to reach full maturation. Yeah. And any child

356
00:13:23,701 --> 00:13:26,084
who's dealing with an attention disorder or any

357
00:13:26,084 --> 00:13:28,489
other kind of neuro development or learning disorder

358
00:13:28,545 --> 00:13:31,104
that's gonna be delayed beyond that. Full there

359
00:13:31,104 --> 00:13:32,643
are a lot of different frameworks

360
00:13:33,022 --> 00:13:33,522
for

361
00:13:33,981 --> 00:13:36,958
labeling, organizing, defining executive skills

362
00:13:37,337 --> 00:13:39,175
where Dick and I started with. We started

363
00:13:39,175 --> 00:13:40,542
with this. Question Or all the skills are

364
00:13:40,542 --> 00:13:42,450
out there that people are talking about? Which

365
00:13:42,450 --> 00:13:45,153
ones are the most critical for school success?

366
00:13:45,948 --> 00:13:47,871
And could we define a pool those skills

367
00:13:47,871 --> 00:13:49,939
that didn't go overboard because when you read

368
00:13:49,939 --> 00:13:52,008
the research, the range in terms of number

369
00:13:52,008 --> 00:13:53,121
is 1 to 33.

370
00:13:53,837 --> 00:13:55,367
I mean, some of the early researchers maintained.

371
00:13:55,527 --> 00:13:57,202
There's really only 1 Ago, we called the

372
00:13:57,282 --> 00:13:59,916
Sun executive. At the opposite end the extreme

373
00:13:59,916 --> 00:14:01,991
guy named George M is developed a rating

374
00:14:01,991 --> 00:14:03,998
scale where he's just in assessing 33 different

375
00:14:03,998 --> 00:14:04,715
executive skills.

376
00:14:05,352 --> 00:14:08,060
Well, we didn't wanna overwhelm people, Either parents

377
00:14:08,060 --> 00:14:10,528
or teachers because our messages is if kids

378
00:14:10,528 --> 00:14:12,536
aren't acquiring these discussing skills naturally, then we

379
00:14:12,536 --> 00:14:14,610
need to explicitly teach the skills and we

380
00:14:14,610 --> 00:14:17,162
get need the opportunity to practice them. Yep.

381
00:14:17,322 --> 00:14:19,475
So I can't ask anyway to teach 33

382
00:14:19,475 --> 00:14:23,493
skills. Yeah. And luck, most kids have some

383
00:14:23,628 --> 00:14:25,375
skills that are stronger than others so you

384
00:14:25,375 --> 00:14:26,964
can 0 in on the skills that are

385
00:14:26,964 --> 00:14:27,464
problematic.

386
00:14:28,076 --> 00:14:30,317
The reason they're called executives skills is because

387
00:14:30,317 --> 00:14:32,950
they're the skills required to execute tasks. So

388
00:14:32,950 --> 00:14:35,741
that's where the executive part comes in. But

389
00:14:35,741 --> 00:14:37,974
my favorite definition, I teach your class at

390
00:14:37,974 --> 00:14:39,625
the university universities how they may every summer

391
00:14:39,664 --> 00:14:40,697
and I think it was in the first

392
00:14:40,697 --> 00:14:42,445
class I taught I had a second grade

393
00:14:42,445 --> 00:14:44,194
teacher in the class was trying to figure

394
00:14:44,194 --> 00:14:46,180
out how do I explain executive skills to

395
00:14:46,180 --> 00:14:46,998
second graders

396
00:14:47,388 --> 00:14:49,138
And what she came up with this... They're

397
00:14:49,138 --> 00:14:50,809
the skills you need to get things done.

398
00:14:51,605 --> 00:14:53,435
Yeah. Which is such a great way of

399
00:14:53,435 --> 00:14:55,443
describing it. So it's not We often think

400
00:14:55,443 --> 00:14:57,760
about school as taking in knowledge and taking

401
00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:58,319
in learning.

402
00:14:58,879 --> 00:15:01,116
Executive skills require you to put out what

403
00:15:01,116 --> 00:15:03,837
you've learned. And So, again, as task initiation,

404
00:15:04,235 --> 00:15:07,333
sustained attention. You know, response inhibition, the the

405
00:15:07,333 --> 00:15:09,479
ability to manage your impose this time management

406
00:15:09,479 --> 00:15:10,432
planning organization,

407
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,464
emotional control being able to manage your emotions.

408
00:15:14,019 --> 00:15:15,765
And then at the upper end, which we

409
00:15:15,765 --> 00:15:17,909
really don't expect with kids. I mean, they

410
00:15:17,909 --> 00:15:19,710
begin to emerge on middle school or later

411
00:15:19,908 --> 00:15:22,550
is things like meta recognition and gold directed

412
00:15:22,605 --> 00:15:23,105
persistence.

413
00:15:23,796 --> 00:15:25,406
You know, I like to call

414
00:15:25,858 --> 00:15:28,732
school learning how to adult. There And I

415
00:15:28,732 --> 00:15:30,883
think when you say that to kids, they're

416
00:15:30,883 --> 00:15:33,672
a little bit more oh, okay. That makes

417
00:15:33,672 --> 00:15:36,380
a little more sense. It's more applicable. Right?

418
00:15:36,619 --> 00:15:37,119
They're

419
00:15:37,909 --> 00:15:40,318
because that's where they wanna go. Right? So

420
00:15:40,931 --> 00:15:43,397
they all wanna be adults. So I have

421
00:15:43,397 --> 00:15:45,703
to say, it takes a lot. We know

422
00:15:45,703 --> 00:15:48,207
that. It takes all the things working simultaneously

423
00:15:48,820 --> 00:15:50,036
in order to be

424
00:15:50,410 --> 00:15:53,614
independent or successful in school. Mh. Mh. And

425
00:15:53,989 --> 00:15:56,056
being behind in some of these skills, especially

426
00:15:56,056 --> 00:15:58,137
with kids that have Adhd is very,

427
00:15:59,011 --> 00:16:01,315
very normal. I mean, I don't know what

428
00:16:01,315 --> 00:16:03,540
what other word to use, but, like, expected.

429
00:16:03,778 --> 00:16:06,657
Mh. At my product as cap educational therapy

430
00:16:06,657 --> 00:16:09,523
group, we focus on learners who either have

431
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,128
Adhd and or executive functioning challenges

432
00:16:13,914 --> 00:16:16,691
And what of the things that you teach

433
00:16:16,691 --> 00:16:18,698
about are best practices.

434
00:16:19,705 --> 00:16:20,205
So

435
00:16:20,753 --> 00:16:23,064
you have a student who is really start

436
00:16:23,064 --> 00:16:25,296
in school. What are the best practices as

437
00:16:25,296 --> 00:16:27,071
you see it in the modern worlds

438
00:16:27,447 --> 00:16:29,688
in terms of helping them sort of strengthen

439
00:16:29,688 --> 00:16:32,309
those executive skills. We sort hammer this home

440
00:16:32,309 --> 00:16:34,159
in our book. She start by

441
00:16:34,691 --> 00:16:36,065
modifying the environment

442
00:16:36,375 --> 00:16:39,174
to basically make it more supportive or less

443
00:16:39,174 --> 00:16:41,654
punishing for kids. So you've got a kid

444
00:16:41,654 --> 00:16:43,274
who keeps for getting instructions

445
00:16:44,149 --> 00:16:46,626
Ultimately, you want to give them strategies for

446
00:16:46,626 --> 00:16:49,743
remembering better. But in the meantime, you don't

447
00:16:49,743 --> 00:16:51,900
wanna make them feel terrible for always forgetting

448
00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:52,380
instructions.

449
00:16:52,794 --> 00:16:54,654
So you modify the environment

450
00:16:55,034 --> 00:16:57,514
by giving them a visual by giving them

451
00:16:57,514 --> 00:16:59,615
the instructions 1 piece at a time

452
00:16:59,995 --> 00:17:01,274
by giving them checklist,

453
00:17:01,769 --> 00:17:04,558
So that's where you start. Just assuming okay.

454
00:17:04,717 --> 00:17:06,789
This kid's got weak working memory and we

455
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:09,338
need to put in sports around that, So,

456
00:17:09,737 --> 00:17:11,330
you can be successful, Basically.

457
00:17:11,984 --> 00:17:14,701
And then we look at... Okay. So if

458
00:17:14,701 --> 00:17:16,779
this kid is weak the skill, how can

459
00:17:16,779 --> 00:17:18,777
we teach the skill? How can we help

460
00:17:18,777 --> 00:17:19,975
the child learn the skill?

461
00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:22,463
We never do that in the abstract we're

462
00:17:22,463 --> 00:17:24,617
always doing that in the context of what

463
00:17:24,617 --> 00:17:26,770
the kid needs to do anyway. Every once

464
00:17:26,770 --> 00:17:28,125
a while, someone would say to me. I'm

465
00:17:28,125 --> 00:17:29,721
gonna start an executive skills summer camp.

466
00:17:30,773 --> 00:17:33,086
And I always sort of pull back when

467
00:17:33,086 --> 00:17:35,081
they say that because I think, that's sort

468
00:17:35,081 --> 00:17:36,858
of learning the skills and

469
00:17:37,236 --> 00:17:40,123
isolation I'm sure a therapists have discovered this

470
00:17:40,203 --> 00:17:42,836
The best way is when you're... How can

471
00:17:42,836 --> 00:17:44,591
kid do something he has to do anyway.

472
00:17:44,911 --> 00:17:47,152
Yep. A homework assignment or getting through a

473
00:17:47,152 --> 00:17:48,979
class assignment or figuring out how to keep

474
00:17:48,979 --> 00:17:49,853
his stuff organized,

475
00:17:50,250 --> 00:17:51,521
it has to be real to they kid.

476
00:17:51,759 --> 00:17:53,586
And if you impose was an extra layer

477
00:17:53,586 --> 00:17:55,917
of Now we're gonna practice working memory and

478
00:17:55,917 --> 00:17:59,592
a totally useless situation and mh nobody's invested

479
00:17:59,592 --> 00:18:02,318
in that. Yeah. That's true. And then the

480
00:18:02,318 --> 00:18:04,880
1 other piece we throw in there because

481
00:18:05,093 --> 00:18:08,423
basically, executive skills are a Cabo acquisition. We're

482
00:18:08,423 --> 00:18:09,136
learning habits.

483
00:18:09,629 --> 00:18:11,787
And in the early stages of learning a

484
00:18:11,787 --> 00:18:14,663
habit. It's hard work. I it's d pleading,

485
00:18:14,903 --> 00:18:17,300
it takes a lot of energy. It's not

486
00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:20,679
much fun. And so we will very often

487
00:18:20,735 --> 00:18:23,196
throw in incentives doing entice skid to do

488
00:18:23,196 --> 00:18:24,864
the hard work of practicing to get better

489
00:18:24,864 --> 00:18:26,928
at it. Because we assure them if you

490
00:18:26,928 --> 00:18:28,936
practice you will get better. We know that's

491
00:18:28,936 --> 00:18:31,250
how the brain works. The longer you practice

492
00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:32,767
something the easier it is to do it,

493
00:18:32,926 --> 00:18:35,161
the less brain power you're using to get

494
00:18:35,161 --> 00:18:37,573
stuck on And so if we can build

495
00:18:37,573 --> 00:18:39,810
in in Send... And we're never possible We

496
00:18:39,810 --> 00:18:41,967
rely on pretty simple and sundays. Like, okay.

497
00:18:42,127 --> 00:18:44,125
Is there's something really fun you wanna do

498
00:18:44,125 --> 00:18:45,968
is soon as you get done with whatever

499
00:18:45,968 --> 00:18:47,874
you have to do here for practice. Oh,

500
00:18:48,033 --> 00:18:49,542
you wanna do that. Okay. So keep that

501
00:18:49,542 --> 00:18:50,892
in the back of your mind because that's

502
00:18:50,892 --> 00:18:52,639
gonna be the fun thing you be getting

503
00:18:52,639 --> 00:18:53,672
to very shortly.

504
00:18:54,163 --> 00:18:56,233
In terms of letting kids know, wow. I

505
00:18:56,233 --> 00:18:59,576
saw you working really hard to enjoy your

506
00:18:59,576 --> 00:19:02,441
temper. And mean, sometimes we'll have parents and

507
00:19:02,441 --> 00:19:04,527
kids develop points this where they get their

508
00:19:04,527 --> 00:19:06,201
earn points for the various things that they're...

509
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,013
Like, if they're practicing getting their homework started

510
00:19:09,071 --> 00:19:10,745
before 05:00 in the evening, they might get

511
00:19:10,745 --> 00:19:12,990
a point for that. If they're getting points

512
00:19:12,990 --> 00:19:15,136
for keeping their room clean and then those

513
00:19:15,136 --> 00:19:17,997
points can translate into incentives. But so they're

514
00:19:17,997 --> 00:19:20,303
varying levels here, but our favorite is, you

515
00:19:20,303 --> 00:19:21,097
know, keep it simple.

516
00:19:21,748 --> 00:19:23,497
A lot of parents are resistant to the

517
00:19:23,497 --> 00:19:24,451
idea of using incentives.

518
00:19:25,246 --> 00:19:26,439
Because I think the kids should wanna do

519
00:19:26,439 --> 00:19:28,982
it anyway. And so that's where I start

520
00:19:28,982 --> 00:19:30,413
talking about. You know, this is tough work.

521
00:19:30,572 --> 00:19:32,979
This is hard work. And so we just

522
00:19:32,979 --> 00:19:34,574
wanna make it a little easier by making

523
00:19:34,574 --> 00:19:37,126
a little more fun. So that's basically it.

524
00:19:37,365 --> 00:19:39,519
I mean, we have some strategies for individual

525
00:19:39,519 --> 00:19:41,849
executive skills, but that's the basic sick framework

526
00:19:41,849 --> 00:19:43,926
of how we approach it? Now, quick question.

527
00:19:44,086 --> 00:19:44,826
What about

528
00:19:45,285 --> 00:19:45,785
students

529
00:19:46,324 --> 00:19:49,461
who even though you set up incentives

530
00:19:50,411 --> 00:19:52,475
still don't have the drive to do it.

531
00:19:53,665 --> 00:19:55,094
I mean, that's an interesting way of thinking

532
00:19:55,094 --> 00:19:56,602
about it because when the child is not

533
00:19:56,602 --> 00:19:58,348
doing something, There are 2 ways of thinking

534
00:19:58,348 --> 00:20:00,435
about it, are they not doing it because

535
00:20:00,435 --> 00:20:02,190
they can't do it because they won't do

536
00:20:02,190 --> 00:20:04,981
it. Our default is always because they can't

537
00:20:04,981 --> 00:20:07,454
do it. Mh. So even though people will

538
00:20:07,454 --> 00:20:10,416
use words like driving motor ovation, we step

539
00:20:10,416 --> 00:20:12,167
back and say. Do we really know for

540
00:20:12,167 --> 00:20:14,316
sure that this kid is capable of doing

541
00:20:14,316 --> 00:20:17,101
that long enough to be successful. Yeah. Because...

542
00:20:17,420 --> 00:20:18,708
Oh, my gosh. I love that. You know,

543
00:20:18,947 --> 00:20:21,413
any kid can start something, It's especially say,

544
00:20:21,572 --> 00:20:23,640
where they're prompting them to start. But can

545
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,461
they stick with it long enough to achieve

546
00:20:26,518 --> 00:20:26,836
success.

547
00:20:27,471 --> 00:20:29,538
The other piece of our model, which we've

548
00:20:29,538 --> 00:20:32,980
started emphasizing even more in recent years is

549
00:20:33,609 --> 00:20:35,690
really engaging the child and deciding what they

550
00:20:35,690 --> 00:20:37,130
wanna work on and what they wanna try

551
00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:39,470
to get better at. Rather than imposing

552
00:20:40,250 --> 00:20:42,409
a goal on them. I mean, obviously, sometimes

553
00:20:42,409 --> 00:20:43,863
we have to do school work that needs

554
00:20:43,863 --> 00:20:46,597
to get done their assignments etcetera Right. Whenever

555
00:20:46,736 --> 00:20:48,971
possible if we engage a child and... Okay.

556
00:20:49,131 --> 00:20:50,487
Where do you wanna start? What do you

557
00:20:50,487 --> 00:20:52,496
wanna work on? And let's if we can

558
00:20:52,496 --> 00:20:54,486
figure out a game plan, so that can

559
00:20:54,486 --> 00:20:56,396
happen. I love you saying that. Yay.

560
00:20:57,113 --> 00:20:59,421
What's the deer? Because that's what we do.

561
00:20:59,913 --> 00:21:01,664
A lot of times as that therapist parents

562
00:21:01,664 --> 00:21:03,814
come in and want us to do things

563
00:21:03,814 --> 00:21:05,485
in a certain order and in a certain

564
00:21:05,485 --> 00:21:08,907
way, and we firmly believe we have to

565
00:21:08,907 --> 00:21:09,407
start

566
00:21:09,719 --> 00:21:11,394
in a place that makes sense for the

567
00:21:11,394 --> 00:21:13,946
child. Good. So you saying that just even

568
00:21:13,946 --> 00:21:16,020
more affirm. So thank you. And I wanna

569
00:21:16,020 --> 00:21:17,695
go back to 1 of the examples that

570
00:21:17,695 --> 00:21:20,100
you gave, which is just getting homework started

571
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:20,815
before 5PM.

572
00:21:21,211 --> 00:21:23,911
That's such a small nugget of a goal,

573
00:21:24,387 --> 00:21:25,578
and a lot of parents are like, we

574
00:21:25,578 --> 00:21:27,007
want homework done before dinner.

575
00:21:27,736 --> 00:21:29,245
And we have to break it down so

576
00:21:29,245 --> 00:21:31,626
that it's easily achievable and the kid has

577
00:21:31,626 --> 00:21:33,691
buy in for as well. So I'd loved

578
00:21:33,691 --> 00:21:35,199
it when you said that example, I'm like,

579
00:21:35,358 --> 00:21:37,760
yes, this is what the parents need to

580
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,153
hear, you know, journey of a thousand miles

581
00:21:40,153 --> 00:21:41,349
as my dad would always say to me.

582
00:21:41,589 --> 00:21:43,582
And I think the other thing which parents

583
00:21:43,582 --> 00:21:44,641
don't up and recognize

584
00:21:45,018 --> 00:21:46,076
is that

585
00:21:46,707 --> 00:21:49,832
getting started is hard, and you can practice

586
00:21:49,888 --> 00:21:50,388
that

587
00:21:51,082 --> 00:21:53,204
by itself. In fact, it was

588
00:21:53,958 --> 00:21:56,100
teacher coaching seminar every year, and and 1

589
00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:58,241
of the coaches who took my class last

590
00:21:58,241 --> 00:21:59,376
was working with a teenager.

591
00:21:59,907 --> 00:22:02,865
She was ambitious really arguing... Low income family

592
00:22:02,865 --> 00:22:03,583
single parent,

593
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:07,513
financial issues the family was dealing with. And

594
00:22:07,651 --> 00:22:10,123
when they realized that task initiation was 1

595
00:22:10,123 --> 00:22:12,764
of her weaker skills. Her code center. Okay.

596
00:22:12,923 --> 00:22:15,226
So we'll just practice getting started. And so

597
00:22:15,226 --> 00:22:16,734
we're gonna start with someone really simple and

598
00:22:16,734 --> 00:22:18,561
really easy, but you make a plan for

599
00:22:18,561 --> 00:22:20,228
what you're gonna start and when you're gonna

600
00:22:20,228 --> 00:22:22,079
start it. And the girl was like surprise.

601
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,559
You mean, I can just practice getting started.

602
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,579
Oh, I can practice that

603
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,880
because so often we pair that with getting

604
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,054
finished. And doing work. Right.

605
00:22:31,615 --> 00:22:32,115
Yes.

606
00:22:32,894 --> 00:22:36,015
It's so true. And the goal can be

607
00:22:36,015 --> 00:22:36,994
so small

608
00:22:37,787 --> 00:22:39,377
in order to have success.

609
00:22:40,173 --> 00:22:42,955
Yeah. And we always say success breeds success.

610
00:22:43,194 --> 00:22:45,364
Right? So the more they're successful

611
00:22:45,754 --> 00:22:48,382
the more they want to do... I would

612
00:22:48,382 --> 00:22:50,850
love it if you would share a little

613
00:22:50,850 --> 00:22:52,921
bit more about something that we talk about

614
00:22:52,921 --> 00:22:55,007
on the podcast podcasts is that Learners who

615
00:22:55,007 --> 00:22:57,240
struggle with executive functioning skills are often 2

616
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,110
to 3 years developmental behind their peers. But

617
00:23:00,110 --> 00:23:02,741
the executive functioning demands that we have on

618
00:23:02,741 --> 00:23:03,060
learners.

619
00:23:03,794 --> 00:23:06,111
Particularly as they go from elementary school to

620
00:23:06,111 --> 00:23:09,067
middle school. It's quite a significant leap. It's

621
00:23:09,067 --> 00:23:10,506
where I see a lot of challenges in

622
00:23:10,506 --> 00:23:11,065
my practice.

623
00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:14,352
We frequently get calls from parents of 6

624
00:23:14,352 --> 00:23:16,825
and seventh graders who don't know what happened.

625
00:23:16,985 --> 00:23:18,740
And then we throw Covid into it.

626
00:23:19,392 --> 00:23:22,335
So everything has sort of shifted as a

627
00:23:22,335 --> 00:23:24,085
result of that. But I'm wondering if you

628
00:23:24,085 --> 00:23:25,858
can talk a little bit about

629
00:23:26,249 --> 00:23:30,077
what normal executive skills development actually looks like.

630
00:23:30,476 --> 00:23:32,731
And then a little bit about what it

631
00:23:32,869 --> 00:23:35,421
actually is in our population that we work

632
00:23:35,421 --> 00:23:38,075
with. Yeah. Sure. So I think I came

633
00:23:38,075 --> 00:23:40,174
up with this sort of framework after

634
00:23:40,875 --> 00:23:42,634
the last book we published. So I didn't

635
00:23:42,634 --> 00:23:44,714
all my workshops but it's not necessarily in

636
00:23:44,714 --> 00:23:48,234
our books. We've identified 11 executive skills that

637
00:23:48,234 --> 00:23:51,100
we focus on, and I've divided them into

638
00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:53,726
2 groups, which I label out foundational skills

639
00:23:53,726 --> 00:23:54,761
and advanced skills.

640
00:23:55,413 --> 00:23:57,565
And the foundational skills are the ones that

641
00:23:57,565 --> 00:23:58,282
emerge first,

642
00:23:58,999 --> 00:24:01,071
many of them, you begin to see signs

643
00:24:01,071 --> 00:24:02,665
of even in the first years of life.

644
00:24:03,398 --> 00:24:04,836
I have a rough order for that, which

645
00:24:04,836 --> 00:24:06,911
is somewhat backed up by research, but hospital

646
00:24:06,911 --> 00:24:07,710
a little speculative.

647
00:24:08,269 --> 00:24:11,063
So response and addition, the ability to control

648
00:24:11,063 --> 00:24:13,234
your impulses is is the first skill to

649
00:24:13,234 --> 00:24:15,312
emerge, followed by working memory,

650
00:24:15,791 --> 00:24:17,390
followed by emotional control,

651
00:24:18,189 --> 00:24:20,267
the ability to manage your motions, all of

652
00:24:20,267 --> 00:24:22,599
those begin to emerge in the first year

653
00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:24,057
of life. Flexibility,

654
00:24:24,993 --> 00:24:27,707
maybe somewhat later, although, I'm pretty sure you

655
00:24:27,707 --> 00:24:29,942
can see some in influx kids even in

656
00:24:29,942 --> 00:24:30,820
the first year of life.

657
00:24:31,789 --> 00:24:33,084
Some of those kids who

658
00:24:33,457 --> 00:24:34,570
are diagnosed with c.

659
00:24:35,205 --> 00:24:37,191
And up a number of them being influx

660
00:24:37,191 --> 00:24:38,859
kids later on. So, again, that's the first

661
00:24:38,859 --> 00:24:42,700
sure right. Oh, interesting. That's something anecdotal. Right?

662
00:24:43,098 --> 00:24:46,150
It totally made sense. Yeah. And then

663
00:24:46,767 --> 00:24:48,304
sustained detention and taps

664
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,743
initiation So that and that's more directed towards,

665
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,188
you know, doing work, basically. So those are

666
00:24:54,188 --> 00:24:55,382
the foundational skills.

667
00:24:56,018 --> 00:24:59,698
The advanced skills, things like organization and planning

668
00:24:59,698 --> 00:25:02,725
and time management and gold directed persistence and

669
00:25:02,725 --> 00:25:05,991
meta cognition. Those are later developing skills.

670
00:25:06,724 --> 00:25:07,224
So

671
00:25:07,683 --> 00:25:11,459
when I'm working with parents and teachers of

672
00:25:11,598 --> 00:25:13,970
elementary school kids, what I tell them is

673
00:25:14,169 --> 00:25:17,200
focus on the foundational skills. Mh. Because those

674
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,390
are the skills that develop first. And I'm

675
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:22,863
always saying, if you put interventions in place

676
00:25:22,863 --> 00:25:25,515
for those skills even with kids were struggling

677
00:25:25,515 --> 00:25:25,835
with them,

678
00:25:26,634 --> 00:25:28,554
you will say progress by the time they

679
00:25:28,554 --> 00:25:31,274
leave elementary school. If you keep the interventions

680
00:25:31,274 --> 00:25:33,115
in place long enough, and that's the other

681
00:25:33,115 --> 00:25:35,922
thing we don't respect enough sometimes we expect

682
00:25:35,922 --> 00:25:38,315
things to work fast, and they don't necessarily

683
00:25:38,315 --> 00:25:38,634
do that.

684
00:25:39,432 --> 00:25:42,462
When I'm talking with parents and teachers and

685
00:25:42,462 --> 00:25:43,260
middle school kids,

686
00:25:43,912 --> 00:25:45,979
What I tell them is that if you

687
00:25:45,979 --> 00:25:48,545
expect those kids to be proficient at those

688
00:25:48,602 --> 00:25:50,748
advanced skills by middle school,

689
00:25:51,559 --> 00:25:52,778
you must be really frustrated.

690
00:25:53,796 --> 00:25:55,954
Yeah. And that things like time management planning,

691
00:25:56,752 --> 00:25:59,010
organization. U. Gold directed persistence

692
00:25:59,323 --> 00:26:01,551
and this is typically developing kids I'm talking

693
00:26:01,551 --> 00:26:04,732
about now. Those skills are just emerging at

694
00:26:04,732 --> 00:26:05,767
the middle school level.

695
00:26:06,259 --> 00:26:08,579
And what we know about emerging skills is

696
00:26:08,579 --> 00:26:10,259
they look great 1 day and lousy you

697
00:26:10,259 --> 00:26:12,420
the next. Mh. If you think about learning

698
00:26:12,420 --> 00:26:14,180
to ride it away. You don't go from

699
00:26:14,180 --> 00:26:15,474
not being able to ride it all to

700
00:26:15,474 --> 00:26:17,875
being able to ride 3 miles smoothly and

701
00:26:17,875 --> 00:26:19,875
without falling down. Mh. No. There's a lot

702
00:26:19,875 --> 00:26:22,115
of falling down that goes in the early

703
00:26:22,115 --> 00:26:24,289
stages of wanting to ride a bike. And

704
00:26:24,289 --> 00:26:27,009
even into freshman sophomore year in high school,

705
00:26:27,170 --> 00:26:30,529
those advanced skills, many typical students are still

706
00:26:30,529 --> 00:26:31,650
feeling their way with that.

707
00:26:32,463 --> 00:26:34,935
Many typical students still need a parents sort

708
00:26:34,935 --> 00:26:36,530
of keeping an eye on them and prompting

709
00:26:36,530 --> 00:26:38,205
them, hey, Have you started that essay sa

710
00:26:38,205 --> 00:26:38,365
yet.

711
00:26:39,083 --> 00:26:40,678
What's your plan for studying for a task,

712
00:26:40,837 --> 00:26:42,923
those kinds of things. Actually, let me say

713
00:26:42,923 --> 00:26:44,830
1 more thing, then we'll talk about how

714
00:26:44,830 --> 00:26:45,943
the delay plays out.

715
00:26:46,578 --> 00:26:49,463
When I'm talking with parents or teachers

716
00:26:50,013 --> 00:26:52,484
secondary level kids, middle school or high school

717
00:26:52,484 --> 00:26:55,195
who have significant executive skill challenges.

718
00:26:55,993 --> 00:26:57,827
I give that statement advice start with a

719
00:26:57,827 --> 00:27:01,599
foundational skills. Mh. Because those foundational skills are

720
00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:03,279
building blocks for the later skills.

721
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,320
And when you're working on task initiation the

722
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,832
sustained detention, you're are working on time management

723
00:27:08,891 --> 00:27:11,605
and chances are. It's those 2 pieces that

724
00:27:11,605 --> 00:27:13,121
are really getting in the way with time

725
00:27:13,121 --> 00:27:13,621
management.

726
00:27:14,159 --> 00:27:15,595
And in fact, a few years ago I

727
00:27:15,595 --> 00:27:17,843
did it out a workshop in Georgia a

728
00:27:17,843 --> 00:27:18,662
private school

729
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:20,794
it. They actually you want me to spend

730
00:27:20,794 --> 00:27:22,229
most of the day with kids, which was

731
00:27:22,229 --> 00:27:23,824
kind of fun. Usually, when I go into

732
00:27:23,824 --> 00:27:25,201
a school, they want me to

733
00:27:25,514 --> 00:27:27,670
talk with teachers or parents are both, and

734
00:27:27,749 --> 00:27:28,867
I did that as well at this school,

735
00:27:29,027 --> 00:27:30,544
but they wanted me spend most of they

736
00:27:30,544 --> 00:27:32,939
talking with kids. Not every kid. The kids

737
00:27:32,939 --> 00:27:35,069
in their learning centers. So these are kids

738
00:27:35,189 --> 00:27:37,014
probably the kind of kids you see, Adhd

739
00:27:37,014 --> 00:27:38,285
or or learning challenges.

740
00:27:38,761 --> 00:27:41,381
And so before I came, I asked the

741
00:27:41,381 --> 00:27:42,436
teachers to administer

742
00:27:43,065 --> 00:27:45,404
our kid version of our executive skill questionnaire

743
00:27:45,464 --> 00:27:46,984
to all the kids I was gonna be

744
00:27:46,984 --> 00:27:50,105
talking with, and then tab it and tell

745
00:27:50,105 --> 00:27:53,220
me what the 5 biggest executive scale challenges

746
00:27:53,220 --> 00:27:53,378
were.

747
00:27:54,173 --> 00:27:55,920
And this was just grade 6 through 12.

748
00:27:56,158 --> 00:27:57,905
I decided, I wasn't sure it'd would be

749
00:27:57,905 --> 00:27:59,335
useful for me to talk with the younger

750
00:27:59,335 --> 00:28:01,418
kids, but 6 fall, they might be able

751
00:28:01,418 --> 00:28:03,568
to listen to an expert on, and still

752
00:28:03,568 --> 00:28:06,196
to take something away. So when they sent

753
00:28:06,196 --> 00:28:09,633
me back that compilation, the top 5 executives

754
00:28:09,633 --> 00:28:11,778
go weaknesses that kids in grade 6 to

755
00:28:11,778 --> 00:28:12,835
12 we're reporting

756
00:28:13,209 --> 00:28:14,799
for all those foundational skills.

757
00:28:15,832 --> 00:28:17,445
So it just reinforced

758
00:28:17,993 --> 00:28:20,621
This is where we've gotta start. Now it

759
00:28:20,621 --> 00:28:22,394
may be that they didn't have the Meta

760
00:28:22,452 --> 00:28:24,363
skills to realize, oh, I need meta cognition,

761
00:28:24,522 --> 00:28:26,209
and it's not working wrong for me. But

762
00:28:26,368 --> 00:28:28,363
I think the fact that they were identifying

763
00:28:28,363 --> 00:28:31,156
those foundational skills just said to me. This

764
00:28:31,156 --> 00:28:32,512
is where we need to put our time

765
00:28:32,512 --> 00:28:34,597
and energy. And It not to you abandon

766
00:28:34,597 --> 00:28:36,346
the others. And again, at Therapist. You do

767
00:28:36,346 --> 00:28:37,301
a lot of modeling.

768
00:28:37,778 --> 00:28:39,606
You do a lot of talking kids through.

769
00:28:39,845 --> 00:28:42,071
Okay. This is what organization looks like. This

770
00:28:42,071 --> 00:28:44,480
is how we plan. That's really important to

771
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,759
do. It's just that we're not shooting for

772
00:28:47,759 --> 00:28:50,160
kids to be proficient and those skills early

773
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:50,960
on in high school.

774
00:28:51,850 --> 00:28:53,835
With kids with Adhd, And I say this

775
00:28:53,835 --> 00:28:55,582
just because Russ Barkley has been saying this

776
00:28:55,582 --> 00:28:57,250
for years, so I consider Barclay the sort

777
00:28:57,250 --> 00:28:59,076
of the world's leading expert on Adhd.

778
00:28:59,729 --> 00:29:02,522
He maintains the kids with Adhd lagged about

779
00:29:02,522 --> 00:29:06,193
30 percent behind typically developing peers in terms

780
00:29:06,193 --> 00:29:07,230
of executive skills.

781
00:29:07,962 --> 00:29:09,872
So that's a gap that widen this kids

782
00:29:09,872 --> 00:29:11,464
get older. You know, 6 year old of,

783
00:29:11,862 --> 00:29:12,976
adhd is more like a 4 year old.

784
00:29:13,295 --> 00:29:14,727
Right? 9 year old small like a 6

785
00:29:14,727 --> 00:29:16,558
year old. A 12 year old smaller like

786
00:29:16,558 --> 00:29:18,481
a 9... If a 15 year old of

787
00:29:18,798 --> 00:29:19,990
Adhd adhd is more like a 10 year

788
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:21,602
old. Think about the different

789
00:29:21,975 --> 00:29:24,517
expectations we have for fourth graders and temp

790
00:29:24,517 --> 00:29:24,914
graders.

791
00:29:25,724 --> 00:29:28,122
Because that's what kids with Adhd are struggling

792
00:29:28,122 --> 00:29:29,880
with when they get to high school. They're

793
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,197
struggling with that gap and they're struggling with

794
00:29:32,197 --> 00:29:34,434
the teacher and impaired expectation of that gap...

795
00:29:34,609 --> 00:29:35,964
Shouldn't be there and there must be something

796
00:29:35,964 --> 00:29:36,602
wrong with a kid.

797
00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:39,552
As you're talking, I wanna ask you a

798
00:29:39,552 --> 00:29:42,182
terminology question. And forgive me if this is

799
00:29:42,182 --> 00:29:44,672
a really simple question with an obvious answer.

800
00:29:45,152 --> 00:29:46,690
When Stefan and I are on the podcast

801
00:29:46,750 --> 00:29:48,667
when we're talking to our teams, we use

802
00:29:48,667 --> 00:29:51,872
the term executive function. Question Is that intentional?

803
00:29:52,031 --> 00:29:53,543
What is the thought behind it? Should we

804
00:29:53,543 --> 00:29:54,975
be changing our language on it?

805
00:29:55,691 --> 00:29:57,044
Or is that just preference?

806
00:29:57,521 --> 00:29:59,351
Yeah. I'm so glad you asked that? Because.

807
00:30:00,082 --> 00:30:01,513
This is how I start my workshops When

808
00:30:01,672 --> 00:30:02,786
I talk about, there's not a lot of

809
00:30:02,786 --> 00:30:04,933
consensus in the field about executives sales starting

810
00:30:04,933 --> 00:30:07,875
with the name and the the more common

811
00:30:07,875 --> 00:30:11,231
name is executive functions. But it was intentional

812
00:30:11,231 --> 00:30:13,461
for us. We wanted the emphasis to be

813
00:30:13,461 --> 00:30:16,327
on skills. You know, skill buys whatever level

814
00:30:16,327 --> 00:30:17,601
you're at, You can get better at it.

815
00:30:18,335 --> 00:30:19,934
Function doesn't give me that same flavor. And,

816
00:30:20,014 --> 00:30:21,615
when I think about a function, I think,

817
00:30:21,774 --> 00:30:23,294
okay. It means use, and then I start

818
00:30:23,294 --> 00:30:25,534
thinking about refrigerators and copy machines. It's gonna

819
00:30:25,534 --> 00:30:27,214
be the work or they don't. Yeah.

820
00:30:27,868 --> 00:30:29,958
A lot of people... What I've seen the

821
00:30:30,014 --> 00:30:32,479
transition, and I'd suggest you do this is

822
00:30:32,479 --> 00:30:35,102
and we they've talked about executive function skills.

823
00:30:35,420 --> 00:30:37,581
And we do say that. Yeah. Yeah. And

824
00:30:37,581 --> 00:30:39,407
again, it's subtle, but you can explain it.

825
00:30:39,566 --> 00:30:42,052
I think it's helpful for everybody to understand

826
00:30:42,505 --> 00:30:44,570
that, you know, skill something you get better

827
00:30:44,570 --> 00:30:46,396
at. You get better at it through practice.

828
00:30:46,888 --> 00:30:49,051
I love the way language sort of informs

829
00:30:49,106 --> 00:30:50,611
and how we think about things. But we

830
00:30:50,611 --> 00:30:52,196
were just talking about that earlier.

831
00:30:52,751 --> 00:30:53,701
And glad I asked.

832
00:30:54,672 --> 00:30:55,629
Yeah. I am too.

833
00:30:57,223 --> 00:30:58,339
I don't know. I was just taking it

834
00:30:58,339 --> 00:31:00,434
all in, but can you just

835
00:31:01,050 --> 00:31:03,299
1 more time for the audience? In case

836
00:31:03,299 --> 00:31:05,299
they weren't ready for when you set it.

837
00:31:05,859 --> 00:31:08,899
What are... Can you just list the foundational

838
00:31:08,899 --> 00:31:11,631
skills again? Yes. Yeah. I'd be happy to.

839
00:31:11,950 --> 00:31:14,204
Although most of the names are self explanatory

840
00:31:14,422 --> 00:31:16,496
response and inhibition is the first 1. And

841
00:31:16,496 --> 00:31:18,251
that's the ability to stop and think before

842
00:31:18,251 --> 00:31:20,299
you say or do something. Okay? That's impulse

843
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:23,380
controller self control. The next 1 is working

844
00:31:23,380 --> 00:31:26,660
memory, and that's the ability to hold information

845
00:31:26,660 --> 00:31:27,220
in mind.

846
00:31:27,954 --> 00:31:30,192
While you're performing a complex task, but it's

847
00:31:30,192 --> 00:31:32,429
also holding in mind so for instance if

848
00:31:32,429 --> 00:31:33,788
you wake up in the morning, and you

849
00:31:33,788 --> 00:31:35,705
open the refrigerator and you see you don't

850
00:31:35,705 --> 00:31:37,396
have milk anything Oh, I gotta buy milk

851
00:31:37,396 --> 00:31:38,992
on my way home from work. If you

852
00:31:38,992 --> 00:31:40,906
actually remembered to stop and buy milk on

853
00:31:40,906 --> 00:31:43,139
your way home from work, that's working memory.

854
00:31:43,378 --> 00:31:45,612
It's that ability to sort of hold in

855
00:31:45,612 --> 00:31:46,170
the radar,

856
00:31:46,585 --> 00:31:48,105
the things you have to keep track of.

857
00:31:48,585 --> 00:31:50,664
And by the way, when I've done work

858
00:31:50,664 --> 00:31:53,144
for schools with kids with d or more

859
00:31:53,144 --> 00:31:54,505
complex learning disabilities,

860
00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:57,556
what those teachers tell me is working memory

861
00:31:57,556 --> 00:31:59,473
is the weakest skill for those.

862
00:32:01,151 --> 00:32:04,184
And that's why they struggle with memorizing math

863
00:32:04,184 --> 00:32:06,641
facts or site words or spelling words. I

864
00:32:06,641 --> 00:32:08,701
mean, all of that is for underlies automatic

865
00:32:08,701 --> 00:32:09,019
authenticity.

866
00:32:09,668 --> 00:32:12,391
And when, the more repetition, we

867
00:32:13,002 --> 00:32:15,463
applied to learning a skill, the better we

868
00:32:15,463 --> 00:32:17,702
learn it, but with kids with weak working

869
00:32:17,702 --> 00:32:20,327
memory. They need multiples of those repetitions.

870
00:32:20,963 --> 00:32:21,440
Mh.

871
00:32:22,076 --> 00:32:23,985
And I just had a baby, and that's

872
00:32:23,985 --> 00:32:25,869
the thing that has left my brain 100

873
00:32:25,989 --> 00:32:28,146
percent. It is my working memory. So interesting,

874
00:32:28,226 --> 00:32:30,942
you should say that because... Yeah, in situations

875
00:32:30,942 --> 00:32:32,780
of stress or information overload,

876
00:32:33,432 --> 00:32:36,050
very often working memory goes. Yeah. I mean,

877
00:32:36,288 --> 00:32:38,431
all executive skills tend to get degraded under

878
00:32:38,431 --> 00:32:41,128
those situations. But working memory really takes a

879
00:32:41,128 --> 00:32:41,287
hit.

880
00:32:42,656 --> 00:32:46,006
So the third executive skill is emotional control.

881
00:32:46,405 --> 00:32:47,841
I mean, there are different names for that

882
00:32:47,841 --> 00:32:50,553
1 as well. Emotional regulation might be a

883
00:32:50,553 --> 00:32:53,114
better way of driving it, but it's the

884
00:32:53,114 --> 00:32:55,840
ability to manage your emotions in order to

885
00:32:56,055 --> 00:32:58,678
achieve goals or accomplish tasks or whatever.

886
00:32:59,408 --> 00:33:00,863
And then the next 1 is flexibility.

887
00:33:01,477 --> 00:33:03,545
It's hard to talk about flexibility and without

888
00:33:03,545 --> 00:33:05,374
using some kind of metaphor ability to go

889
00:33:05,374 --> 00:33:05,852
with the flow.

890
00:33:06,504 --> 00:33:08,601
To handle unexpected changes

891
00:33:09,059 --> 00:33:12,092
in plans or new events or new information,

892
00:33:12,891 --> 00:33:15,819
emotional control and flexibility often go together influx

893
00:33:15,939 --> 00:33:18,017
book kids off and have trouble managing their

894
00:33:18,017 --> 00:33:19,295
emotions. Mh.

895
00:33:19,694 --> 00:33:20,434
And then

896
00:33:20,893 --> 00:33:23,230
sustained attention. So that's the ability to

897
00:33:23,544 --> 00:33:24,984
was something long enough to get it done.

898
00:33:25,144 --> 00:33:27,224
And 1 other thing I should say about

899
00:33:27,224 --> 00:33:29,625
sustained attention is that, you know,

900
00:33:30,345 --> 00:33:32,440
because I worked, know, for 40 years with

901
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,839
kids with attention disorders. I've seen a lot

902
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:36,519
of kids, you know, the parents have been

903
00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:38,095
pushed into my office by

904
00:33:38,611 --> 00:33:40,517
pediatricians for a teacher because someone thinks circuit

905
00:33:40,517 --> 00:33:42,503
as attention problems. And the parent will say

906
00:33:42,503 --> 00:33:44,648
to me, my kid can't have Ad. He

907
00:33:44,648 --> 00:33:46,396
can play video games for hours?

908
00:33:46,890 --> 00:33:47,390
Mh.

909
00:33:47,849 --> 00:33:48,170
Well,

910
00:33:49,450 --> 00:33:51,210
so what I tell parents is, it's not

911
00:33:51,210 --> 00:33:53,529
the kids can't pay attention kids with Can't

912
00:33:53,529 --> 00:33:56,733
pay attention that they trouble making themselves pay

913
00:33:56,733 --> 00:33:59,437
attention. Mh. That's not gonna show up with

914
00:33:59,437 --> 00:34:01,346
video games. Where parents gonna see it at

915
00:34:01,346 --> 00:34:02,857
3 places, homework chores,

916
00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:05,670
boring daily routines. That's where you're gonna see

917
00:34:05,670 --> 00:34:07,430
problems with with sustained attention.

918
00:34:08,150 --> 00:34:10,949
And then finally, task initiation, which is basically

919
00:34:10,949 --> 00:34:11,829
the opposite of.

920
00:34:12,243 --> 00:34:14,633
Nation the ability to begin tasks promptly. And

921
00:34:14,633 --> 00:34:16,864
the the 1 other thing I often remind

922
00:34:16,864 --> 00:34:19,254
people here is that I actually think this

923
00:34:19,254 --> 00:34:21,007
is the less and hardest of skill to

924
00:34:21,007 --> 00:34:21,246
acquire.

925
00:34:21,818 --> 00:34:23,328
I think there are a lot of adults

926
00:34:23,328 --> 00:34:24,385
that struggle with

927
00:34:25,157 --> 00:34:28,098
with task initiation. And interestingly enough, those same

928
00:34:28,098 --> 00:34:29,847
adults may be annoyed because their kids aren't

929
00:34:29,847 --> 00:34:31,929
getting the homework started No. Mh.

930
00:34:32,882 --> 00:34:35,449
And then you're talking about? Yeah. How's your

931
00:34:35,506 --> 00:34:36,006
tax

932
00:34:36,778 --> 00:34:37,493
filing? U.

933
00:34:39,257 --> 00:34:40,529
Love for extension.

934
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:42,835
It's so true.

935
00:34:44,742 --> 00:34:46,570
So those are the 6 foundational skills.

936
00:34:47,142 --> 00:34:49,209
Amazing. Thank you for repeating those. I do

937
00:34:49,209 --> 00:34:50,958
want you to dig into the advanced skills

938
00:34:50,958 --> 00:34:52,866
a little bit, but the thought has come

939
00:34:52,866 --> 00:34:54,297
to me. And so I wanna ask you

940
00:34:54,297 --> 00:34:55,648
now while I'm thinking of it, and I

941
00:34:55,648 --> 00:34:57,418
have a no idea. Remind you about advanced

942
00:34:57,418 --> 00:34:58,237
skills. But

943
00:34:58,617 --> 00:35:00,055
1 of the trigger words that we hear

944
00:35:00,055 --> 00:35:01,652
a lot from parents and it's a trigger

945
00:35:01,652 --> 00:35:04,382
word for us both personally and as at

946
00:35:04,382 --> 00:35:07,483
therapist is when the pair comes in, and

947
00:35:07,483 --> 00:35:08,358
my skin is lazy.

948
00:35:09,232 --> 00:35:11,538
And so the word lazy is a huge

949
00:35:11,538 --> 00:35:13,739
trigger word for us. It's always a signal

950
00:35:13,779 --> 00:35:15,694
us that we should be getting curious instead

951
00:35:15,694 --> 00:35:17,051
of getting punitive.

952
00:35:18,008 --> 00:35:20,482
But what is your response to me sort

953
00:35:20,482 --> 00:35:22,488
of bringing that up. It's funny. Man I

954
00:35:22,727 --> 00:35:24,237
I've often said if there's... If I could

955
00:35:24,237 --> 00:35:25,748
out outline 1 word and then you're find

956
00:35:25,748 --> 00:35:27,260
what you would be lazy. So I am

957
00:35:27,260 --> 00:35:29,327
mh. Completely board for that.

958
00:35:30,139 --> 00:35:31,734
Many years ago, I was asked to develop

959
00:35:31,734 --> 00:35:33,728
a keynote, which I called Beyond Lazy and

960
00:35:33,728 --> 00:35:36,440
un motivated, and basically said. Yeah. When you're

961
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,274
using those terms, what do... In fact, I

962
00:35:38,274 --> 00:35:39,651
have a whole set of terms

963
00:35:39,964 --> 00:35:41,560
I might be able to quickly find them.

964
00:35:42,039 --> 00:35:44,833
It's the part of my workshops that people

965
00:35:44,833 --> 00:35:46,051
take pictures of

966
00:35:46,588 --> 00:35:47,967
fat this minute

967
00:35:48,759 --> 00:35:51,475
the no no works? Yeah. Exactly. And it's

968
00:35:51,475 --> 00:35:53,632
so that is. Let me find.

969
00:35:55,803 --> 00:35:57,875
I just think this is really helpful to

970
00:35:57,875 --> 00:35:58,592
think about.

971
00:35:59,468 --> 00:35:59,968
So

972
00:36:00,424 --> 00:36:03,155
instead of calling students this lazy un motivated

973
00:36:03,452 --> 00:36:05,340
not working to potential disruptive

974
00:36:05,940 --> 00:36:09,140
opposition messy Tar for Forgetful. Absent minded, we're

975
00:36:09,140 --> 00:36:11,860
lacking a work ethic. Mh. How about we

976
00:36:11,860 --> 00:36:13,880
describe them as having challenges in task

977
00:36:14,180 --> 00:36:16,748
initiation so sustained attention, response inhibition, and I

978
00:36:16,748 --> 00:36:18,103
go through. I mean I'll send you that

979
00:36:18,103 --> 00:36:20,336
slide if you wanna see it because... I'm

980
00:36:20,336 --> 00:36:22,091
very visual. That would be amazing.

981
00:36:22,729 --> 00:36:24,026
Yeah. Yeah. Because

982
00:36:24,577 --> 00:36:27,286
again, people really resonate to that. In every

983
00:36:27,286 --> 00:36:29,754
single 1 of those words, the negative words,

984
00:36:30,312 --> 00:36:32,223
first of all has a corresponding executive skill

985
00:36:32,223 --> 00:36:33,514
on the right hand side but there are

986
00:36:33,514 --> 00:36:35,755
all terms that I have heard from parents

987
00:36:35,755 --> 00:36:38,315
or teachers of both. It's so damaging though

988
00:36:38,554 --> 00:36:40,954
Yeah. It just sticks with you. Yeah. Even

989
00:36:40,954 --> 00:36:43,128
into a delta, it becomes part of your

990
00:36:43,128 --> 00:36:45,445
identity that was put upon you by somebody

991
00:36:45,445 --> 00:36:48,561
else. There's always more because we fundamentally believe

992
00:36:48,561 --> 00:36:49,920
that when kids can, they will,

993
00:36:50,571 --> 00:36:52,478
and kids want to please the adults in

994
00:36:52,478 --> 00:36:53,987
their life. And when they're not, we have

995
00:36:53,987 --> 00:36:55,893
to figure out why and we have to

996
00:36:55,893 --> 00:36:58,037
help them, not punish them for it.

997
00:36:58,766 --> 00:37:01,466
Because they wanna please the adults. Right. Exactly.

998
00:37:02,021 --> 00:37:03,292
And as I say this is my workshops

999
00:37:03,292 --> 00:37:04,959
all the time. So if you're a parent

1000
00:37:04,959 --> 00:37:06,643
and you're hearing a teacher just describe your

1001
00:37:06,643 --> 00:37:08,000
kid is lazy or if you're a teacher,

1002
00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:09,596
and you're hearing a parent describe their kid

1003
00:37:09,596 --> 00:37:12,069
is lazy. What I suggest you is gently

1004
00:37:12,069 --> 00:37:13,266
say to them, you know what?

1005
00:37:14,078 --> 00:37:15,675
I prefer to think of as having problems

1006
00:37:15,675 --> 00:37:19,027
with task initiation and sustained attention, and we

1007
00:37:19,027 --> 00:37:20,862
need to come up with some strategies to

1008
00:37:20,862 --> 00:37:22,894
help with that. And so shift the

1009
00:37:23,268 --> 00:37:27,166
conversation away from negative terms because the nice

1010
00:37:27,166 --> 00:37:29,791
thing about executive skill terminology is it needs

1011
00:37:29,791 --> 00:37:31,477
you to problem solving. It leads you to...

1012
00:37:31,716 --> 00:37:32,991
Okay. So what do we do about that?

1013
00:37:33,309 --> 00:37:33,548
Yeah.

1014
00:37:34,425 --> 00:37:36,178
How do we help? That's the end all.

1015
00:37:36,496 --> 00:37:37,931
What's the intervention for lazy?

1016
00:37:38,899 --> 00:37:41,755
Interventions for task initiation, sustained attention etcetera. And

1017
00:37:41,755 --> 00:37:44,372
you're right. I have numerous stories, including within

1018
00:37:44,372 --> 00:37:45,800
my own family. Of,

1019
00:37:46,609 --> 00:37:48,760
people who... By the time they reached adulthood,

1020
00:37:48,919 --> 00:37:50,672
they were thinking of themselves as lazy. And

1021
00:37:50,831 --> 00:37:52,902
Yeah. That was their default. Oh, I'm having

1022
00:37:52,902 --> 00:37:54,416
trouble with that because I'm lazy. Come lazy.

1023
00:37:54,655 --> 00:37:55,372
Done that way forever.

1024
00:37:56,184 --> 00:37:59,224
So... Yeah. Yeah, it's so sad. Thank you

1025
00:37:59,224 --> 00:38:01,304
for addressing that because we couldn't be more

1026
00:38:01,304 --> 00:38:02,605
aligned on that. And

1027
00:38:03,304 --> 00:38:05,085
let's go back now to the

1028
00:38:05,558 --> 00:38:06,058
advanced

1029
00:38:06,594 --> 00:38:09,066
executive skills if you don't mind. Again, I

1030
00:38:09,066 --> 00:38:10,284
think we still

1031
00:38:10,820 --> 00:38:13,531
model those skills with younger kids, you know,

1032
00:38:14,103 --> 00:38:17,193
In fact, here's my recommendation. We teach kids

1033
00:38:17,193 --> 00:38:19,990
that vocabulary too. That's why that second grade

1034
00:38:20,441 --> 00:38:21,969
was trying to figure how do I tell

1035
00:38:21,969 --> 00:38:24,049
second graders about executive skills? Because she thought

1036
00:38:24,049 --> 00:38:25,889
if she could get that terminology in kids.

1037
00:38:26,609 --> 00:38:29,089
So for instance, you know, a second grade

1038
00:38:29,089 --> 00:38:30,664
teacher might say to her class, You know

1039
00:38:31,261 --> 00:38:33,648
organization is a really important skill. You're gonna

1040
00:38:33,648 --> 00:38:34,920
need it for the rest of your life.

1041
00:38:35,318 --> 00:38:36,750
So tell you what, we're gonna end the

1042
00:38:36,750 --> 00:38:38,978
day 5 minutes early, and we're gonna spend

1043
00:38:38,978 --> 00:38:40,909
the last 5 minutes a day tidying up

1044
00:38:40,909 --> 00:38:43,150
our desks, making sure everything is in its

1045
00:38:43,150 --> 00:38:43,389
place.

1046
00:38:44,190 --> 00:38:45,630
So that when you come in from school

1047
00:38:45,630 --> 00:38:47,961
tomorrow, you will be ready to learn. That's

1048
00:38:47,961 --> 00:38:50,745
called organization. That's an executive skill, and you're

1049
00:38:50,745 --> 00:38:52,915
always gonna need it. And at the secondary

1050
00:38:53,052 --> 00:38:55,358
level, I wish when teachers are assigning long

1051
00:38:55,358 --> 00:38:56,963
term project They would say to the class.

1052
00:38:57,122 --> 00:38:58,474
You know what? Here's why I'm assigning this

1053
00:38:58,474 --> 00:39:00,223
long term project. I want you to learn

1054
00:39:00,223 --> 00:39:01,734
some research skills and I want you to

1055
00:39:01,734 --> 00:39:03,403
learn some writing skills and I want you

1056
00:39:03,403 --> 00:39:06,607
to learn the information that you're researching. Mh

1057
00:39:06,607 --> 00:39:09,319
not there are 2 really important executive skills

1058
00:39:09,319 --> 00:39:10,834
that go along with this that are just

1059
00:39:10,834 --> 00:39:12,429
as important for you to be practicing.

1060
00:39:12,908 --> 00:39:13,887
1 is planning

1061
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:15,733
and the other is time management.

1062
00:39:16,426 --> 00:39:19,550
And so if we could just have teachers

1063
00:39:20,085 --> 00:39:22,471
whenever it comes up in the classroom, elected

1064
00:39:22,471 --> 00:39:25,585
kids know, here's the executive skill or skills

1065
00:39:25,585 --> 00:39:27,254
that you need to do this task.

1066
00:39:27,810 --> 00:39:29,637
Then I think that's the way to handle

1067
00:39:29,637 --> 00:39:31,730
it. Let's think about planning for a minute

1068
00:39:31,730 --> 00:39:33,969
because what I find with planning is that...

1069
00:39:34,849 --> 00:39:36,130
I mean, when I think of planning, I

1070
00:39:36,130 --> 00:39:37,489
immediately think of long term projects,

1071
00:39:37,983 --> 00:39:40,287
And I decided many years ago. There's a

1072
00:39:40,287 --> 00:39:43,148
mismatch between what great teachers start assigning long

1073
00:39:43,148 --> 00:39:45,056
term projects and when we can expect kids

1074
00:39:45,056 --> 00:39:46,327
to independently plan them.

1075
00:39:46,978 --> 00:39:47,376
Mh.

1076
00:39:47,932 --> 00:39:50,876
So what teachers do is totally developmental appropriate.

1077
00:39:51,035 --> 00:39:52,944
They do the planning 4 kids. You know,

1078
00:39:53,103 --> 00:39:55,507
they break on the project into sub some

1079
00:39:55,507 --> 00:39:58,374
timelines and interim deadlines, and the shepherd kids

1080
00:39:58,374 --> 00:40:00,684
through the project again. Okay. By tomorrow. I

1081
00:40:00,684 --> 00:40:02,436
want you to have 5 note cards showing

1082
00:40:02,436 --> 00:40:04,757
me the notes you're taking for that project

1083
00:40:04,757 --> 00:40:05,313
or whatever.

1084
00:40:06,187 --> 00:40:08,731
And again, that's developmental appropriate, but it fails

1085
00:40:08,731 --> 00:40:10,797
to take the advantage of the opportunity to

1086
00:40:10,797 --> 00:40:11,591
teach planning.

1087
00:40:12,004 --> 00:40:13,679
So I'm always saying to teachers, you know,

1088
00:40:13,759 --> 00:40:16,390
rather than do the planning 4 kids. How

1089
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:18,862
about you do the planning with kids so

1090
00:40:18,862 --> 00:40:22,537
that they see... You're thinking. Yeah. Exactly. And

1091
00:40:22,695 --> 00:40:25,153
I think, especially with those advanced skills, so

1092
00:40:25,153 --> 00:40:27,373
many of them, the way to help kids

1093
00:40:27,373 --> 00:40:29,529
understand them is through think aloud. And and

1094
00:40:29,529 --> 00:40:31,355
a therapist can do this. So I'm gonna

1095
00:40:31,355 --> 00:40:34,450
think through how I'm gonna manage my homework

1096
00:40:34,450 --> 00:40:37,170
tonight. I'm gonna think about what I have

1097
00:40:37,170 --> 00:40:39,089
to do, I'm gonna take each task. I'm

1098
00:40:39,089 --> 00:40:40,530
gonna figure out how long it's gonna take

1099
00:40:40,530 --> 00:40:42,309
me to do it. I'm gonna figure out

1100
00:40:42,530 --> 00:40:44,210
when I'm gonna start it. I'm mean gonna

1101
00:40:44,210 --> 00:40:46,484
figure out where I'm gonna work. And so

1102
00:40:46,623 --> 00:40:50,239
we're modeling that again, that's time management that's

1103
00:40:50,618 --> 00:40:52,237
planning, that's task

1104
00:40:52,615 --> 00:40:52,855
initiation,

1105
00:40:53,507 --> 00:40:55,253
into some extent all of this feeds into

1106
00:40:55,253 --> 00:40:57,873
gold directed persistence because at any anytime you're

1107
00:40:57,873 --> 00:40:59,857
making a plan and you're committed to following

1108
00:40:59,857 --> 00:41:02,177
through on it. Then you're you're working towards

1109
00:41:02,177 --> 00:41:04,404
a goal. I love it so much those

1110
00:41:04,404 --> 00:41:06,074
are all the things that I just love.

1111
00:41:08,078 --> 00:41:10,541
That's why we do what doing right. Yeah.

1112
00:41:11,018 --> 00:41:12,448
It just makes me happy.

1113
00:41:14,514 --> 00:41:15,014
So

1114
00:41:15,883 --> 00:41:17,799
before we sort of wrap up and continue

1115
00:41:17,799 --> 00:41:20,832
our conversation on Patreon. What we wanted to

1116
00:41:20,832 --> 00:41:23,147
ask is, you know, you have an audience

1117
00:41:23,147 --> 00:41:24,996
in front of you now with sm used

1118
00:41:24,996 --> 00:41:25,314
audience.

1119
00:41:25,950 --> 00:41:27,802
What's the bottom line? What do you wish

1120
00:41:28,337 --> 00:41:30,962
at therapist, learning specialist, teachers, parents knew?

1121
00:41:31,694 --> 00:41:34,011
Okay. So it is not so much knowing

1122
00:41:34,011 --> 00:41:34,970
is understanding.

1123
00:41:35,769 --> 00:41:38,566
Want them to understand that there are skills

1124
00:41:38,566 --> 00:41:41,365
that lie beneath what we're asking kids to

1125
00:41:41,365 --> 00:41:41,999
do in school.

1126
00:41:42,633 --> 00:41:44,694
I've called them the hidden curriculum for years.

1127
00:41:45,170 --> 00:41:47,175
And I'd say that in part because

1128
00:41:47,483 --> 00:41:48,696
If you look at any

1129
00:41:49,148 --> 00:41:51,684
local state or national curriculum standards and look

1130
00:41:51,684 --> 00:41:54,142
for explicit references to executives skills you won't

1131
00:41:54,142 --> 00:41:54,618
find any.

1132
00:41:55,189 --> 00:41:57,260
And so if they're not there, then no

1133
00:41:57,260 --> 00:41:59,571
one's charged for teaching them? And yet, if

1134
00:41:59,571 --> 00:42:01,403
you look at those standards and think what

1135
00:42:01,403 --> 00:42:04,112
skills do I need to practice reading comprehension.

1136
00:42:05,084 --> 00:42:07,396
A lot of it is executive skills. And

1137
00:42:07,396 --> 00:42:09,549
so Mh. I think if I could get

1138
00:42:09,549 --> 00:42:10,049
in

1139
00:42:10,665 --> 00:42:12,101
my husband and kisses me and said about

1140
00:42:12,101 --> 00:42:13,536
win or a hammer, everything looks like a

1141
00:42:13,536 --> 00:42:13,615
nail.

1142
00:42:15,066 --> 00:42:16,762
If you kids behavior

1143
00:42:17,459 --> 00:42:20,569
through an executive skill lens, what executive skill

1144
00:42:20,569 --> 00:42:22,484
strengths does that kid bring to the table,

1145
00:42:22,643 --> 00:42:25,760
what are they challenged by the tasks we're

1146
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,222
asking kids to do through an executive skill

1147
00:42:28,222 --> 00:42:30,444
lens and then say, is there a mismatch?

1148
00:42:30,762 --> 00:42:33,039
Is there a mismatch between the skills we

1149
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:34,828
affect this kid to have in terms of

1150
00:42:34,828 --> 00:42:36,656
executive skills and the ones they actually have,

1151
00:42:36,974 --> 00:42:38,587
and how can we get from

1152
00:42:38,961 --> 00:42:40,869
where they are now to where we want

1153
00:42:40,869 --> 00:42:41,346
them to be?

1154
00:42:42,473 --> 00:42:44,380
I love it. You too. Thank you. Thank

1155
00:42:44,380 --> 00:42:45,968
you for being here, and thank you for

1156
00:42:45,968 --> 00:42:47,636
sharing with our audience. This has been a

1157
00:42:47,636 --> 00:42:49,146
real treat for us. I have such a

1158
00:42:49,146 --> 00:42:51,290
girl crash right now. And the mind saying

1159
00:42:51,290 --> 00:42:51,370
it.

1160
00:42:52,496 --> 00:42:54,584
If you wanna hear more about our conversation

1161
00:42:54,798 --> 00:42:56,782
with Peg Dawson, and we're gonna be heading

1162
00:42:56,782 --> 00:42:59,004
on over to Patreon. I have a couple

1163
00:42:59,004 --> 00:43:00,194
things that I wanna talk to you about

1164
00:43:00,194 --> 00:43:02,280
in terms of... So how Covid is impacted,

1165
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,513
what you have seen in terms of executive

1166
00:43:04,513 --> 00:43:08,204
skills. And then I'm also interested in what

1167
00:43:08,262 --> 00:43:10,176
sort of shift you went through as a

1168
00:43:10,176 --> 00:43:12,184
parent. And how it informs to the work

1169
00:43:12,184 --> 00:43:13,697
that you do because now I have the

1170
00:43:13,697 --> 00:43:15,928
baby. And I'm soaking in all the knowledge.

1171
00:43:16,167 --> 00:43:18,397
So... Yeah. Yeah. Peg, would you be willing

1172
00:43:18,397 --> 00:43:20,801
to do our signature sign off. Yeah. Sure.

1173
00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:22,233
Have a great week. Smart.

1174
00:43:22,948 --> 00:43:23,425
Yay.

1175
00:43:24,141 --> 00:43:24,856
Have a great week.

1176
00:43:26,765 --> 00:43:27,481
Have a great week.