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Smart today, we are talking about how weaker

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executive functioning skills can lead to challenges while

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making decisions. In episode 2 74, the silent

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suffering of problem solving. We addressed what we

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mean when we talk about problem solving and

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why it's so important In this episode, we

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are further going into this idea, and we

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are talking about why decision making is often

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very most emotional and difficult for learners who

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have weaker executive functioning skills and what they

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can do about it. If you are interested

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in having your learner, have these kinds of

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with an educational therapist or you're interested in

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having these types of conversations and support from

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an educational therapist, do not hesitate to sign

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up for a phone call My practice is

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cap educational therapy group. And you can sign

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up for a phone call at WWW

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dot cap at therapy dot com. We specialize

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in learners fifth grade through adulthood with executive

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functioning skills challenges. Steph practice is my ed

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therapist, and her website is WWW

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dot my therapist dot com. You can sign

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up for her phone call on her website

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as well and her practice does all the

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things including letters who struggle with executive skills

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challenges. We both work with learners locally and

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now emotionally bold practices. So don't let your

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location, be a stock app for you. Also,

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we haven't asked it for a while, but

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it really does mean a lot to us

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when you leave a 5 star review and

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you write a little something about how the

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podcast is either helped or supported you or

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your family. Please go ahead and leave a

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5 Star review, we read them and it

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really does mean a lot to us. Let's

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dig in. You want to learn faster,

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but sometimes working harder.

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Is just that the answer you have to

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learn

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smarter, the educational therapy podcast.

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The Hi, Smart Welcome to episode 319

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of Learned Smarter. The educational therapy podcast. I'm

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Stephanie Pitt. And I'm rachel kat. And today,

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we are talking about decision making

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and executive functioning skills.

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Alright. Let's dig into it. In this episode,

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we're gonna kinda break... Our ideas down into

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2 different

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kind of themes, which is Yeah. By specialty.

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Like being like, Okay. This is the order.

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Car We're gonna talk about why decision making

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is so impacted by weak executive functioning skills

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to challenges.

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And then we're gonna talk about what you

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can do about it. Okay. So the why

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decision making. There is a huge fear of

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making a mistake. Or doing it differently than

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somebody else. Yeah. That can cause some serious

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paralysis.

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And then therefore, no decision is made at

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all. You just avoided it entirely. This can

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be a real reason why learners don't initiate

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a task. Oh, for sure. It's because they

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can't even make a decision about what topic,

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for example,

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They want to do something. So let's say

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they have to make fights,

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and they have to pick a topic. That

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enough is there's options, and they wanna pick

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the right 1.

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And

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they have a fear of making in the

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mistake, and then they also have prior experience

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making mistakes. Mh. So they just have complete

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paralysis around and they don't do anything, or

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they make a decision, they get 75 percent

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of the project done and then decide they're

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gonna switch topics.

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So that is...

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A major

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major component of this. What else stuff? Not

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having a plan.

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Not having a plan at all

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causes

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it to be really hard to make a

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decision. And, you know, I see this a

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lot. There's a certain game that I play

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with kids

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it's where you move the tiles and copy.

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It's like a little puzzle, and we race.

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It's called Rubik's race, 1 of them. There's

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2 different versions of it. But that's 1

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of the games. And

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I always play with the kids and just

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tell them to go.

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And

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I beat them just before they even have

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1 row of colors. And that's because you

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probably have a plan of going top to

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bottom. A hundred

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percent and left to right. Yeah. So after

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they look at be shocked that I have

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beat them

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by so much time and they haven't even

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gotten past the first row. I say, what

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was your plan?

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And they look at me, Mh. Like, I

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am speaking a different language.

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Mh. Like, I didn't even know I was

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supposed to have a plan, and I was

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like, okay. I do this all the time.

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Let's make a plan. Mh. What makes sense.

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And now that you've made the plan, right?

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The plan being go top to bottom left

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or right. Let's try using your plan and

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see how it goes. Well, now they're much

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more in the race, and sometimes they beat

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me most of time not. But... Like, if

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you haven't signed up for an email, go

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ahead and sign up on our website WWW

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dot learn podcast dot com. Why don't we

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put both games? We'll give you links for

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both games in the email for this episode.

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Okay. Yeah. I'll take a picture today. Sounds

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good for Smart, the next

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reason why

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decision making

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paralysis can really come into play is fatigue.

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And this is the mom is something that

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I really experienced of, like, I just...

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Sometimes we need to have a plan for

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what we're having for dinner because by the

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time,

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04:30 rolls around, and I need to start

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making dinner,

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I have no juice going towards my decision

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making, which reminds me gonna have Adam d

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for us some chicken right now.

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I'm sending him a attacks.

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Guys, we're having chicken for dinner tonight. Okay?

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I'm having chicken too. I try to pull

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out the stuff to def frost

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when I'm making current dinner for tomorrow dinner.

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That's how I do it. Great strategy stuff.

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Okay. I like it. And you know what

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maybe we'll have salsa chicken tonight stuff. Oh,

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I do love a salsa chicken. Yeah. So

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if you'd like to make salsa chicken, what

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you do is you put the chicken breast.

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In the instant pot. Yeah. And it could

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be frozen. I don't like it frozen. I

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like it to be frost.

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Because then it sticks together, and then wait...

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I understand. But in a pinch, it'll work.

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And a pinch, you can make it work,

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and then you just dump the sauce on

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top and set it for, like, 8 minutes.

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And then what I like to do because

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I like to make extra dishes.

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Dirty is I'll throw it in my saving

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mixer. And it'll shred the chicken. Yeah. Love.

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Thank you Instagram for teaching teaching me shortcut

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that creates for dishes for adams to wash.

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But I don't wanna got there with a

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fork. You know what I mean? Okay. Now

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that we have the strategy for planning dinner.

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Stuff, and I will... At some point figure

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out a strategy for Laundry, but I really

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think that solution just gonna be buying more

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clothes. Like

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We've been a longtime time listener of the

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podcast, You know, we've all paid doing laundry.

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We don't... Hate doing the laundry part. Hate

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the putting away the log Putting an away.

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Yeah. Okay. So what are the other ways

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that decision making is impacted by week ef

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skills. Well, like we talked about there's the

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planning and prioritizing.

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So what do you need to do when

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and how important is it. Right? If you

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only have so much juice or so much

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gas in your gas tank and you're using

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it for things that don't matter right now,

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then you're wasting gas.

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And so

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you need to make sure that you are

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focusing on the things that are important and

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knowing what's important. It's part of the decision

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making. Mh. So that is hard in itself.

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For a lot of people.

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So

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that's definitely a skill that needs to be

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practiced.

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But then the other thing is sometimes,

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we over complicate things and over complicate decisions.

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Yep. As Rachel likes to say you're torturing

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yourself with this decision.

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That happens to me. It happens to her.

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U. And we both tell each other that

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when we're doing it. I'd we say about

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ourselves, like, hundred percent. This is what's going

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on and torturing myself over it, and the

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other person is just, like, just do it.

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Sometimes which is just what happened yesterday. Right?

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I need a new laptop. Yep. We've talked

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about it multiple times. It's a lot of

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money, and I didn't wanna pull the trigger.

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And finally yesterday I was like, Steph, I

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need to buy the new laptop. Yeah. Because

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yours is not working. I know. I know.

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You can't live like that anymore. No. I

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can't. And then I even complimented myself yesterday.

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I remember. I was like, I can't believe

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how quickly I did that without having and

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hauling, And you're like, we've already have been

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hot for weeks about that. I was like

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It's facts, guys. Yeah. So here's the thing.

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Let's use your laptop as an example because

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there are so many decisions

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on buying that laptop on exactly what model,

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how many this to get, how many of

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that to get? Yeah. That slowed down the

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process that we've already been having this conversation

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for several weeks. I let me be clear.

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I don't make any of those decisions. You

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just tell me

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I know. Yeah. But even so,

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it became

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overwhelming. It's a lot. Yeah. And it's like

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I want you to be on facetime with

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me or on... I know. And I couldn't,

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and, yeah, I know. Because what I'd like

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to do I'd like to share my screen

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and just have views for me what to

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click.

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And so you'd like, step me a screenshot,

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and then I sent you a screenshot back

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and, like, is what's right and, like, it's

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a big purchase. Okay.

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So, like again, my decision paralysis around that

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was I had a fear baking mistake because

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it's a lot of money to make a

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mistake. A hundred percent, But then I just

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told her to get exactly what I got.

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So that worked. Yep. You didn't have to

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think about it. You already made the decision,

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which is coming up in or, what do

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you do about this? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Alright.

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So let's talk about that. What do you

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do? Well, you gotta minimize your decision making.

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Mh. So you have to make simple decisions

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along the way. Where do things live?

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Okay. I'm deciding this lives here, and now

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it's gonna live here forever. You have to

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know your rules about things. So Seth just

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shared 1 of her rules about making dinner.

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She takes out. The next night's dinner. Mh.

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While she's making the current type. Genius. Simple.

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Mh. Now I have a new role that's

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easy for me to maintain and then everybody

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and the family can sort of know what's

264
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coming up, which will help. Yeah. You make

265
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those rules along the way, and sometimes you

266
00:10:06,910 --> 00:10:10,028
cannot do this in isolation. No. It is

267
00:10:10,028 --> 00:10:12,735
very difficult to, like, sort of do these

268
00:10:12,735 --> 00:10:13,235
things

269
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alone and without that partnership with either a

270
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partner, the 1 that you and I have

271
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a friend Mh. Or an educational therapist. So

272
00:10:23,917 --> 00:10:25,855
this can really help make life

273
00:10:26,168 --> 00:10:27,998
simpler. Yeah. Is to have someone come in

274
00:10:27,998 --> 00:10:28,737
and either

275
00:10:29,112 --> 00:10:30,704
identify the rule that you've already established, but

276
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you haven't, like, crystallize it. Yeah.

277
00:10:33,742 --> 00:10:35,331
Except, did you know that that was a

278
00:10:35,331 --> 00:10:36,920
role for you that you're gonna def for

279
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:38,906
the next night's dinner at the time Or

280
00:10:39,064 --> 00:10:40,415
Been a couple of times where I've had

281
00:10:40,415 --> 00:10:41,630
to, like, go by

282
00:10:42,499 --> 00:10:44,816
some sort of protein because I didn't def

283
00:10:44,816 --> 00:10:46,094
it in time. And so then I was

284
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like I really need to make this a

285
00:10:48,331 --> 00:10:48,730
routine.

286
00:10:49,463 --> 00:10:52,011
And when am I thinking about food when

287
00:10:52,170 --> 00:10:52,728
I'm cooking?

288
00:10:53,444 --> 00:10:53,944
So

289
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,152
I say, okay. So what should we have

290
00:10:56,152 --> 00:10:57,607
for dinner tomorrow? And

291
00:10:57,918 --> 00:10:59,352
then I pull it out, and that has

292
00:10:59,352 --> 00:11:00,011
been working

293
00:11:00,547 --> 00:11:02,618
phenomenally well. So it just, I sort of

294
00:11:02,778 --> 00:11:04,371
You just never told me. I just never

295
00:11:04,371 --> 00:11:06,123
told you. It just sort of, like happened.

296
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Mh.

297
00:11:07,413 --> 00:11:09,407
But that's what I'm saying is, like, it's

298
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very difficult to, like, now that you have

299
00:11:11,959 --> 00:11:14,351
verbal it, it becomes even more of a

300
00:11:14,351 --> 00:11:16,185
rule and you can also teach other people.

301
00:11:16,519 --> 00:11:18,757
Mh. This is the rule. So other people

302
00:11:18,757 --> 00:11:21,234
in your households can help remind you, hey

303
00:11:21,234 --> 00:11:22,752
we need to make a decision about dinners

304
00:11:22,752 --> 00:11:24,191
tomorrow because this is when we make the

305
00:11:24,191 --> 00:11:27,078
decision about dinner. I have enough energy when

306
00:11:27,158 --> 00:11:30,109
I'm cooking to think about, okay, tomorrow. I

307
00:11:30,109 --> 00:11:31,944
have these ingredients because I'm, like, looking at

308
00:11:31,944 --> 00:11:33,698
them. So I know this is what I'll

309
00:11:33,698 --> 00:11:34,735
make tomorrow awesome.

310
00:11:35,389 --> 00:11:37,866
So it's setting up those routines. It's having

311
00:11:37,866 --> 00:11:39,144
those small wins.

312
00:11:40,263 --> 00:11:42,760
And for me having the small win about

313
00:11:42,993 --> 00:11:45,539
hey, We're gonna decide dinner tomorrow night. I

314
00:11:45,539 --> 00:11:46,198
could also

315
00:11:46,971 --> 00:11:50,563
mobilize the team around that. Mh. And making

316
00:11:50,563 --> 00:11:51,753
sure we have what we need in the

317
00:11:51,753 --> 00:11:52,943
house. Yeah. And then...

318
00:11:53,736 --> 00:11:55,243
Because I have to tell you, like, a

319
00:11:55,243 --> 00:11:57,623
week meal plan. My sister lot does that.

320
00:11:58,193 --> 00:11:59,626
And She'll and be like, okay. This is

321
00:11:59,626 --> 00:12:00,661
what we're having every night so we need...

322
00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:02,492
I can't do that. I really circle with

323
00:12:02,492 --> 00:12:05,437
that. I know what our typical groceries are.

324
00:12:06,169 --> 00:12:07,685
I can pull it together based off what

325
00:12:07,685 --> 00:12:09,680
we have. But okay. I know for sure

326
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:11,516
these 2 meals, but then the other fee

327
00:12:11,516 --> 00:12:13,032
are gonna be a free for all or

328
00:12:13,032 --> 00:12:15,519
leftovers. So we're still working it out, and

329
00:12:15,519 --> 00:12:17,112
it's so cute. Now I'm also stuff because

330
00:12:17,272 --> 00:12:17,670
Elliot,

331
00:12:18,148 --> 00:12:20,060
we use the language what's on the menu.

332
00:12:20,379 --> 00:12:22,370
A lot in our house. So, like, u.

333
00:12:22,609 --> 00:12:24,858
He'll say to me Like, Mommy, what's on

334
00:12:24,858 --> 00:12:26,616
the menu for lunch because he gets lunch

335
00:12:26,616 --> 00:12:28,614
and dinner confused a lot. Mh mh. So,

336
00:12:28,694 --> 00:12:30,531
like, yesterday, we were driving home from school

337
00:12:30,531 --> 00:12:32,382
and he's gonna go have lunch. He goes,

338
00:12:32,621 --> 00:12:34,450
I wanna go out for dinner. I'm like,

339
00:12:34,689 --> 00:12:35,484
I think you mean lunch.

340
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,586
It's so funny. Cute my little 3 year

341
00:12:38,586 --> 00:12:40,097
old months to go out because, you know

342
00:12:40,097 --> 00:12:42,101
why, He wants French fries. Yeah. Of course.

343
00:12:42,181 --> 00:12:43,931
It did... That we went to a restaurant.

344
00:12:44,169 --> 00:12:45,760
We were at Betty Hana. You Bet Hana.

345
00:12:45,999 --> 00:12:47,113
We went to Betty Hana.

346
00:12:47,844 --> 00:12:50,161
The day before my birthday. So like, in

347
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,197
April. Yeah. I told you. I'll send you

348
00:12:53,197 --> 00:12:55,764
pictures and videos I should have. Sorry. Because

349
00:12:55,764 --> 00:12:58,173
it's really cute when they were doing the

350
00:12:58,230 --> 00:13:01,253
onion volcano. I love... We were there with

351
00:13:01,253 --> 00:13:03,242
my nephew. It's like the camera didn't know

352
00:13:03,242 --> 00:13:04,693
where to go. Because there were too many

353
00:13:04,693 --> 00:13:07,510
kids that... I'm sorry, guys. My brother has

354
00:13:07,649 --> 00:13:10,286
a son that's in between the ages of

355
00:13:10,286 --> 00:13:12,613
my boys. So, like, little pack of dudes

356
00:13:12,613 --> 00:13:15,320
are growing up together. And oh, they don't

357
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,584
serve fries and Bet Han. And he could

358
00:13:18,584 --> 00:13:19,084
not

359
00:13:19,714 --> 00:13:21,467
I was like, baby they don't they don't

360
00:13:21,467 --> 00:13:23,858
have fries at this restaurant. So now every

361
00:13:23,858 --> 00:13:24,097
time,

362
00:13:25,054 --> 00:13:26,170
we go out to you, which is, like

363
00:13:26,170 --> 00:13:27,046
not that often.

364
00:13:27,779 --> 00:13:29,777
Because it's just easier with an almost 3

365
00:13:29,777 --> 00:13:31,396
year old an almost 1 year old to

366
00:13:31,935 --> 00:13:33,613
stay at home. Yeah. Mommy, it's a French

367
00:13:33,613 --> 00:13:34,332
fry best restaurant.

368
00:13:35,131 --> 00:13:36,250
He's like now planning.

369
00:13:36,823 --> 00:13:37,459
His menu.

370
00:13:38,096 --> 00:13:40,664
Anyway, what's the last thing you wanna do

371
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,559
around this is you wanna create language and

372
00:13:43,759 --> 00:13:45,432
you wanna crystallize it. Yeah. Just like the

373
00:13:45,432 --> 00:13:48,142
way you crystallize your general. So mh. You

374
00:13:48,142 --> 00:13:51,351
wanna actively start rewriting the narrative of failure

375
00:13:51,585 --> 00:13:53,825
talking about how you're gonna recover, if you

376
00:13:53,825 --> 00:13:55,665
do make a mistake with the choice. And

377
00:13:55,665 --> 00:13:57,764
if you haven't listened to episode 03:17

378
00:13:57,985 --> 00:14:00,876
where we talk about failing forward and making

379
00:14:00,876 --> 00:14:02,632
a plan for failure. It's just a couple

380
00:14:02,632 --> 00:14:04,308
weeks ago and we'll go ahead and link

381
00:14:04,308 --> 00:14:06,463
that episode and the show notes this episode

382
00:14:06,463 --> 00:14:07,740
because that's a good compliment to this.

383
00:14:08,394 --> 00:14:09,532
If you wanna actively

384
00:14:10,229 --> 00:14:11,585
increase meta recognition,

385
00:14:12,224 --> 00:14:13,500
so that the order gets to the point

386
00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:16,149
of, like, oh, I'm making a decision. I

387
00:14:16,149 --> 00:14:18,070
have a hard time making a decision because

388
00:14:18,070 --> 00:14:19,269
of XYZ,

389
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:21,990
and I'm just gonna move forward even though

390
00:14:22,149 --> 00:14:25,363
I feel uncomfortable because of XYZ. Yeah. And

391
00:14:25,363 --> 00:14:28,572
that's okay. Mh. That's okay. So I think

392
00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:31,100
just wrapping up all of this. Decision making

393
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:32,875
really is a huge

394
00:14:33,251 --> 00:14:34,447
executive functioning task.

395
00:14:35,099 --> 00:14:36,634
And it takes a lot of skill

396
00:14:37,249 --> 00:14:40,195
is important to note when you see your

397
00:14:40,195 --> 00:14:41,231
learner or yourself,

398
00:14:42,107 --> 00:14:43,221
struggling with paralysis.

399
00:14:44,034 --> 00:14:44,534
And

400
00:14:44,995 --> 00:14:47,334
not getting anything done it. It's looking like,

401
00:14:47,714 --> 00:14:50,214
you know, the hated term of laziness or

402
00:14:50,434 --> 00:14:51,575
avoidance or

403
00:14:52,208 --> 00:14:54,674
Anything like that, You know, it's just about

404
00:14:54,674 --> 00:14:56,584
knowing that that is taking a lot of

405
00:14:56,584 --> 00:14:59,129
gas and so how can we help have

406
00:14:59,129 --> 00:15:00,561
a more fuel efficient brain.

407
00:15:01,374 --> 00:15:03,371
Completely. And I love the fact that you

408
00:15:03,371 --> 00:15:04,511
pointed out that

409
00:15:05,209 --> 00:15:06,828
decision making paralysis

410
00:15:08,166 --> 00:15:08,666
can

411
00:15:09,458 --> 00:15:12,011
look like other things. Mh. And this is

412
00:15:12,011 --> 00:15:14,005
where we always come back to, like, our

413
00:15:14,005 --> 00:15:16,637
thief statement, which is when it's easy, a

414
00:15:16,637 --> 00:15:18,892
learner will do it. And they want to

415
00:15:19,363 --> 00:15:22,232
please the adults in their lives and get

416
00:15:22,232 --> 00:15:25,419
that positive feedback and reinforcement. When they're not

417
00:15:25,419 --> 00:15:26,296
doing something,

418
00:15:26,948 --> 00:15:28,776
we have to get curious about it.

419
00:15:29,571 --> 00:15:31,717
Because sometimes they can just be the decisions

420
00:15:31,717 --> 00:15:34,102
are really hard and addressing that can be...

421
00:15:34,753 --> 00:15:37,297
A huge relief for everyone and release the

422
00:15:37,297 --> 00:15:39,681
valve of the pressure, the pressure valve. For

423
00:15:39,681 --> 00:15:41,032
sure, You know, I wanna put in there.

424
00:15:41,191 --> 00:15:43,440
I just had a conversation yesterday with a

425
00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:47,600
longtime podcast listener. Yeah. Who was talking about

426
00:15:47,658 --> 00:15:48,158
how

427
00:15:48,854 --> 00:15:51,566
her son was struggling with writing sentences. He's

428
00:15:51,566 --> 00:15:53,480
in first grade and writing sentences.

429
00:15:53,894 --> 00:15:56,285
Sure. And when we discussed it a little

430
00:15:56,285 --> 00:15:57,958
bit more. It really came down to, he

431
00:15:57,958 --> 00:16:00,907
doesn't know what to write about. It's not

432
00:16:00,907 --> 00:16:03,559
that he can't... Do it per s. It

433
00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:05,799
that he's has to make the decision about

434
00:16:05,799 --> 00:16:08,120
what it's gonna be about, and that is

435
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,360
causing paralysis. Yes. There are other things going

436
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,849
on, but that is also a huge part

437
00:16:12,849 --> 00:16:14,126
of even for a little dude,

438
00:16:15,242 --> 00:16:18,215
thinking of what they want to talk about

439
00:16:18,353 --> 00:16:20,927
can be really hard and that

440
00:16:21,479 --> 00:16:22,938
becomes the stop gap. So

441
00:16:23,477 --> 00:16:25,016
just know that

442
00:16:25,395 --> 00:16:27,712
it looks differently at different ages and for

443
00:16:27,712 --> 00:16:30,085
different people, but get curious because

444
00:16:30,523 --> 00:16:33,075
decision making is really hard. It is.

445
00:16:33,952 --> 00:16:36,185
But that have a great week Smart. Have

446
00:16:36,185 --> 00:16:36,743
a great week.