WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.599 --> 00:00:04.160 - Alright. Here's our goal, folks. Leading Saints is 2 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:06.639 - no longer a podcast. Well, obviously, we are 3 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:09.199 - a podcast. We will continue to podcast, but 4 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:12.160 - we're really shifting our focus over to Zion 5 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:13.939 - Lab, which is an online community 6 00:00:14.244 --> 00:00:16.585 - put on and developed by leading saints. 7 00:00:16.964 --> 00:00:18.404 - And this is where we want to go 8 00:00:18.404 --> 00:00:19.704 - and gather the masses 9 00:00:20.085 --> 00:00:22.964 - and share ideas about leadership, share ideas about 10 00:00:22.964 --> 00:00:25.704 - different callings, share ideas about building Zion. 11 00:00:26.005 --> 00:00:27.605 - And this is the place that we want 12 00:00:27.605 --> 00:00:29.940 - to make online, where all things are discussed, 13 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:31.920 - great ideas are shared, and that we can 14 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.560 - help one another in whatever calling we're in 15 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:36.640 - or what calling we're not in to feel 16 00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:38.399 - like, you know, I've got purpose here. I 17 00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:40.399 - can really make a difference in shifting culture 18 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:42.399 - in a better way or developing Zion in 19 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:44.414 - my own corner of the kingdom. So join 20 00:00:44.414 --> 00:00:48.675 - us over at Zion Lab at leadingsaints.org/zion. 21 00:00:48.815 --> 00:00:50.734 - And there, you can just jump in. It's 22 00:00:50.734 --> 00:00:53.155 - free to join and create a profile and 23 00:00:53.215 --> 00:00:55.135 - jump in and and look around and answer 24 00:00:55.135 --> 00:00:57.475 - some questions. Leave a comment, pose a question. 25 00:00:57.509 --> 00:00:59.189 - I think you'll benefit from the things we're 26 00:00:59.189 --> 00:01:01.530 - doing over at Zion Lab. So join us. 27 00:01:03.670 --> 00:01:05.829 - If you wanted further insight into a come 28 00:01:05.829 --> 00:01:08.229 - follow me lesson, you'd probably search in YouTube 29 00:01:08.229 --> 00:01:10.405 - or get the we believe app. Tough church 30 00:01:10.405 --> 00:01:12.724 - history questions? You'd reach out to the BH 31 00:01:12.724 --> 00:01:13.625 - Roberts Foundation. 32 00:01:13.924 --> 00:01:15.444 - But what if you wanted to learn to 33 00:01:15.444 --> 00:01:17.604 - be a better leader? Well, I'm glad you 34 00:01:17.604 --> 00:01:20.325 - asked. You'd come to Leading Saints. That's why 35 00:01:20.325 --> 00:01:22.484 - we exist, to help Latter day Saints be 36 00:01:22.484 --> 00:01:25.019 - better prepared to lead by being familiar with 37 00:01:25.099 --> 00:01:26.399 - others' leadership experiences, 38 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:30.060 - understand the latest leadership research, and finding a 39 00:01:30.060 --> 00:01:32.619 - community to share ideas. That's why I'm glad 40 00:01:32.619 --> 00:01:34.719 - you found the Leading Saints podcast. 41 00:01:35.019 --> 00:01:36.859 - We hope you will dive into the archives 42 00:01:36.859 --> 00:01:38.459 - and visit leadingsaints.org 43 00:01:38.459 --> 00:01:40.454 - to find out what are the top most 44 00:01:40.454 --> 00:01:42.394 - listened to episodes on the podcast. 45 00:01:42.854 --> 00:01:44.715 - Welcome. You're gonna love it. 46 00:01:47.254 --> 00:01:49.254 - Alright. This is an episode that I need 47 00:01:49.254 --> 00:01:51.494 - you to forward on to your Bishop's wife, 48 00:01:51.494 --> 00:01:53.670 - or maybe you are the Bishop's wife and 49 00:01:53.670 --> 00:01:55.129 - you have found the right place. 50 00:01:55.509 --> 00:01:56.329 - I interview 51 00:01:56.709 --> 00:01:59.269 - Jeanette Smith, who's the author of side by 52 00:01:59.269 --> 00:01:59.769 - side 53 00:02:00.069 --> 00:02:02.569 - supporting a spouse in church leadership 54 00:02:02.950 --> 00:02:05.030 - and a phenomenal resource. It was actually written 55 00:02:05.030 --> 00:02:07.289 - a couple decades ago, but it's still applicable 56 00:02:07.429 --> 00:02:10.675 - today as, more couples enter in this, 57 00:02:11.215 --> 00:02:13.694 - this adventure of church leadership and how to 58 00:02:13.694 --> 00:02:15.855 - support one another and how to support the 59 00:02:15.855 --> 00:02:16.995 - actively serving 60 00:02:17.375 --> 00:02:19.074 - spouse. Jeanette has actually 61 00:02:19.455 --> 00:02:21.395 - been a bishop's wife several times. 62 00:02:21.775 --> 00:02:24.800 - She has been a mission leader and she 63 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:27.759 - now is currently the wife of the stake 64 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:29.680 - president. And so she has a lot of 65 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:32.479 - personal experience. She's also a, marriage and family 66 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:32.979 - therapist. 67 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:35.120 - And so has a lot of experience there, 68 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:37.120 - just the perfect person to speak to this 69 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:38.879 - concept. And we talk about it all. We 70 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:41.534 - talk about the, the strain that sometimes these 71 00:02:41.534 --> 00:02:44.275 - callings bring on a relationship, on a marriage. 72 00:02:44.495 --> 00:02:45.855 - And how do you do that? How do 73 00:02:45.855 --> 00:02:47.455 - you turn this from being a tax on 74 00:02:47.455 --> 00:02:49.155 - a marriage to being an opportunity 75 00:02:49.455 --> 00:02:51.555 - for the marriage? And what about confidentiality? 76 00:02:52.094 --> 00:02:54.150 - What's a couple to do when they feel 77 00:02:54.150 --> 00:02:55.669 - like, I don't know how much we can 78 00:02:55.669 --> 00:02:57.750 - talk about this and, you know, they try 79 00:02:57.750 --> 00:02:59.590 - and set it aside and talk about anything 80 00:02:59.590 --> 00:03:02.150 - else. But, you know, the Bishop is walking 81 00:03:02.150 --> 00:03:03.830 - around the house just with this weight on 82 00:03:03.830 --> 00:03:06.150 - his shoulders of, of some of the stress 83 00:03:06.150 --> 00:03:08.254 - happening in the ward. And he needs that 84 00:03:08.254 --> 00:03:10.655 - outlet. He needs to process. And so she 85 00:03:10.655 --> 00:03:13.215 - talks about a lot about that confidentiality and 86 00:03:13.215 --> 00:03:14.575 - how to make that not be, 87 00:03:15.055 --> 00:03:17.615 - tension on the marriage. But this really can 88 00:03:17.615 --> 00:03:19.215 - be a time for a couple to grow 89 00:03:19.215 --> 00:03:22.080 - closer, for their marriage to become stronger, and 90 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:24.240 - for the family to be blessed as a 91 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:27.540 - whole unit because of these opportunities of service 92 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:29.760 - and ones that we appreciate and are also 93 00:03:29.760 --> 00:03:32.319 - grateful. They don't last too much longer than 94 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:34.719 - five or nine years or however long it 95 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:36.000 - is, but, you know, it does have to 96 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.025 - be a lifetime of service. So you're gonna 97 00:03:38.025 --> 00:03:40.985 - appreciate Jeanette's experience. She gives a great perspective 98 00:03:40.985 --> 00:03:42.745 - of how to serve side by side in 99 00:03:42.745 --> 00:03:45.465 - these callings and be a support to the 100 00:03:45.465 --> 00:03:47.705 - bishop, to the stake president, and to have 101 00:03:47.705 --> 00:03:50.480 - your marriage flourish. So here's my interview with 102 00:03:50.480 --> 00:03:51.300 - Jeanette Smith. 103 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:02.340 - Alright. I'm really excited to bring in Jeanette 104 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:04.480 - Smith to the Leading Saints podcast. How are 105 00:04:04.480 --> 00:04:06.875 - you, Jeanette? Thank you. I'm doing very well. 106 00:04:06.875 --> 00:04:08.875 - Good. And you are the author of Side 107 00:04:08.875 --> 00:04:11.935 - by Side Supporting a Spouse in Church Service. 108 00:04:12.555 --> 00:04:14.635 - And this that came to my attention. We've 109 00:04:14.635 --> 00:04:16.955 - done in Zion Lab, in our online community, 110 00:04:16.955 --> 00:04:19.790 - we've done several live streams around certain callings, 111 00:04:20.009 --> 00:04:23.050 - church experiences, topics. And one thing we've done, 112 00:04:23.050 --> 00:04:24.810 - we try to do at least more and 113 00:04:24.810 --> 00:04:27.129 - more regularly, I I should say, is the 114 00:04:27.129 --> 00:04:29.370 - experience of a bishop's wife or a bishopric 115 00:04:29.370 --> 00:04:31.824 - wife or a stake president wife, whether these 116 00:04:31.824 --> 00:04:33.585 - are sort of these pseudo callings. These are 117 00:04:33.585 --> 00:04:35.845 - not official callings, but they sure feel like 118 00:04:36.145 --> 00:04:37.365 - a calling or responsibility 119 00:04:37.745 --> 00:04:39.904 - and sometimes a duty, right, to to show 120 00:04:39.904 --> 00:04:41.585 - up in certain ways. And and in this, 121 00:04:41.585 --> 00:04:43.185 - you know, I just wanna open create an 122 00:04:43.185 --> 00:04:45.689 - open forum for bishops' wives to come or 123 00:04:45.689 --> 00:04:48.009 - somebody in a similar position and say, hey. 124 00:04:48.009 --> 00:04:49.930 - This is what I'm experiencing. What have others 125 00:04:49.930 --> 00:04:51.689 - done? What's your experience been like? Or I'm 126 00:04:51.689 --> 00:04:54.089 - brand new. Any suggestions type of thing. And 127 00:04:54.089 --> 00:04:55.689 - somebody brought up your book, and I thought, 128 00:04:55.689 --> 00:04:57.485 - man, how did I miss this book? I 129 00:04:57.485 --> 00:04:59.404 - know it's been several years since it's been 130 00:04:59.404 --> 00:05:01.884 - written, and, this led me on a a 131 00:05:01.884 --> 00:05:03.645 - path that likely wasn't too hard to track 132 00:05:03.645 --> 00:05:05.645 - you down and now to interview you. So 133 00:05:05.645 --> 00:05:07.004 - tell us about this book, how it came 134 00:05:07.004 --> 00:05:10.139 - to be. Well, interestingly enough, I was just 135 00:05:10.139 --> 00:05:13.439 - finishing up my master's degree in counseling psychology 136 00:05:13.819 --> 00:05:15.579 - when my husband was called to be a 137 00:05:15.579 --> 00:05:17.579 - bishop for the first time. And so I 138 00:05:17.579 --> 00:05:19.339 - was learning about how to do marriage. I 139 00:05:19.339 --> 00:05:21.259 - became a marriage and family therapist. That was 140 00:05:21.259 --> 00:05:22.160 - my emphasis. 141 00:05:22.595 --> 00:05:24.355 - And I recognized that there were some things 142 00:05:24.355 --> 00:05:26.514 - that were happening in our marriage when he 143 00:05:26.514 --> 00:05:29.074 - became a bishop that weren't conducive to a 144 00:05:29.074 --> 00:05:31.395 - happy marriage. And so I just started pondering 145 00:05:31.395 --> 00:05:33.235 - it and of course used some of the 146 00:05:33.235 --> 00:05:35.254 - things I was learning as a student 147 00:05:35.795 --> 00:05:38.430 - to figure out, like, how can we how 148 00:05:38.430 --> 00:05:40.209 - can we fix this marriage? How can we 149 00:05:40.589 --> 00:05:41.730 - not just 150 00:05:42.110 --> 00:05:43.730 - survive the next five years, 151 00:05:44.189 --> 00:05:45.949 - you know, hold our breath until while we're 152 00:05:45.949 --> 00:05:48.029 - done with this calling, but how can we 153 00:05:48.029 --> 00:05:49.250 - use this calling 154 00:05:49.709 --> 00:05:52.725 - to actually strengthen our marriage and be better 155 00:05:52.725 --> 00:05:54.725 - as a result of the calling. Because, you 156 00:05:54.725 --> 00:05:57.365 - know, you're not always just gonna serve one 157 00:05:57.365 --> 00:05:59.145 - time and that's the end of the story. 158 00:05:59.285 --> 00:06:01.125 - And in our case, he served as a 159 00:06:01.125 --> 00:06:02.805 - bishop, he served as a branch president, he 160 00:06:02.805 --> 00:06:04.560 - served as a bishop again, He served as 161 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:06.079 - a mission leader, and now he's a stake 162 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:07.919 - president. So it's kind of a good thing 163 00:06:07.919 --> 00:06:09.360 - that we learned how to do marriage early 164 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:10.339 - on in the game. 165 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:13.759 - Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And did you have 166 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:15.439 - what stage of life were you at in 167 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:17.875 - that first time of serving? So we had 168 00:06:17.875 --> 00:06:20.435 - little kids. Yeah. We had we had three 169 00:06:20.435 --> 00:06:22.435 - children. One of them was born while he 170 00:06:22.435 --> 00:06:24.514 - was serving as bishop. And so it is 171 00:06:24.514 --> 00:06:27.074 - a different dynamic when you have children, but 172 00:06:27.074 --> 00:06:29.334 - I think there's a lot of principles that 173 00:06:29.475 --> 00:06:31.954 - apply across the spectrum from, you know, whether 174 00:06:31.954 --> 00:06:33.979 - you have babies, whether you're single, whether you 175 00:06:33.979 --> 00:06:36.459 - have teenagers in your home. As a matter 176 00:06:36.459 --> 00:06:37.660 - of fact, when my when I was a 177 00:06:37.660 --> 00:06:39.360 - young girl, my dad was the bishop, 178 00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:42.399 - and he tells stories. So I was probably, 179 00:06:42.620 --> 00:06:44.000 - I don't know, four. 180 00:06:44.459 --> 00:06:46.300 - He would take me with him to go 181 00:06:46.300 --> 00:06:47.199 - visit people 182 00:06:47.545 --> 00:06:49.225 - as a bishop. And he said that I 183 00:06:49.225 --> 00:06:51.145 - was his secret weapon. Like, who can turn 184 00:06:51.145 --> 00:06:53.705 - away a little girl, a little boy, or 185 00:06:53.705 --> 00:06:55.944 - a little blonde, like blonde. And so it 186 00:06:55.944 --> 00:06:57.225 - was a way for him to connect with 187 00:06:57.225 --> 00:06:58.185 - me and it was a way for him 188 00:06:58.185 --> 00:07:00.025 - also to do his calling. Gave my mom 189 00:07:00.025 --> 00:07:01.610 - a break. So that was one of the 190 00:07:01.610 --> 00:07:04.189 - ways that they handled life when they had 191 00:07:04.250 --> 00:07:06.250 - little children at home. You know, we did 192 00:07:06.250 --> 00:07:07.870 - some some things that were similar. 193 00:07:08.170 --> 00:07:09.770 - Brett and I, oh my goodness, we did 194 00:07:09.770 --> 00:07:10.589 - so much together 195 00:07:10.889 --> 00:07:12.649 - when he was serving as bishop the first 196 00:07:12.649 --> 00:07:14.464 - time. One of the things I should probably 197 00:07:14.464 --> 00:07:15.904 - tell you as we go on into the 198 00:07:15.904 --> 00:07:16.404 - interview 199 00:07:16.785 --> 00:07:17.524 - is what 200 00:07:17.904 --> 00:07:18.404 - makes 201 00:07:18.785 --> 00:07:20.004 - the marriage strong 202 00:07:20.625 --> 00:07:22.644 - when you decide I'm gonna have this 203 00:07:22.944 --> 00:07:25.024 - calling and strengthen our marriage instead of weaken 204 00:07:25.024 --> 00:07:27.285 - the marriage. And what we learned 205 00:07:27.665 --> 00:07:28.324 - is that 206 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:29.580 - too often, 207 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:32.939 - couples have this idea, bishops have this idea, 208 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:35.019 - males in the church have the idea 209 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:37.899 - that because they're in this important ecclesiastical 210 00:07:38.199 --> 00:07:41.240 - calling that everything is confidential, that they just 211 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:43.955 - can't share share anything with the spouse. And 212 00:07:43.955 --> 00:07:46.675 - that is a recipe for drifting apart because 213 00:07:46.675 --> 00:07:48.754 - the priesthood leader or the one with the 214 00:07:48.754 --> 00:07:51.795 - calling, he's always thinking about his calling. Like, 215 00:07:51.795 --> 00:07:53.634 - that's his world, you know. He may he 216 00:07:53.634 --> 00:07:56.310 - has a job, but he's thinking about the 217 00:07:56.310 --> 00:07:58.149 - people that he serves. He's thinking about people 218 00:07:58.149 --> 00:08:00.230 - he's concerned about, people that he loves, the 219 00:08:00.230 --> 00:08:02.470 - callings that he has to extend, the marriages 220 00:08:02.470 --> 00:08:04.790 - that are in trouble. I mean, that's constantly 221 00:08:04.790 --> 00:08:06.629 - on his mind. And if he feels like 222 00:08:06.629 --> 00:08:09.449 - he can't share anything that's about his calling 223 00:08:09.694 --> 00:08:10.595 - with his spouse, 224 00:08:10.974 --> 00:08:13.375 - then they're living in different worlds. She's raising 225 00:08:13.375 --> 00:08:15.694 - the kids. Maybe she's got her hobbies. He's 226 00:08:15.694 --> 00:08:18.035 - got his job and he's got his calling, 227 00:08:18.254 --> 00:08:20.274 - and it's like never the twain shall meet. 228 00:08:20.974 --> 00:08:22.995 - Yeah. You know, we have such a tradition 229 00:08:23.055 --> 00:08:25.235 - of endure to the end. Right? And so 230 00:08:25.430 --> 00:08:27.350 - we sometimes take on these callings or these 231 00:08:27.350 --> 00:08:29.509 - experiences thinking, okay. It's just five years. You 232 00:08:29.509 --> 00:08:31.029 - know, we can get through this. And I 233 00:08:31.029 --> 00:08:33.190 - think in all levels of of life, whether 234 00:08:33.190 --> 00:08:35.190 - it's the relationship or, you know, you hear 235 00:08:35.190 --> 00:08:37.750 - about bishops being called as in their medical 236 00:08:37.750 --> 00:08:39.669 - residency, and it's sort of like, alright. We 237 00:08:39.669 --> 00:08:42.235 - just got just survive. Right? And and, yeah, 238 00:08:42.235 --> 00:08:43.915 - there are those moments, the tough weeks, the 239 00:08:43.915 --> 00:08:46.715 - long hours, and there are maybe some enduring. 240 00:08:46.715 --> 00:08:48.715 - But I love this framing that you give 241 00:08:48.715 --> 00:08:50.154 - it is you really have to make a 242 00:08:50.154 --> 00:08:52.254 - decision that, you know, our relationship 243 00:08:52.555 --> 00:08:55.129 - can thrive and there you can't just because 244 00:08:55.129 --> 00:08:57.450 - I also think that there's this feeling at 245 00:08:57.450 --> 00:08:58.970 - times where, oh, you are called as a 246 00:08:58.970 --> 00:09:00.889 - bishop. You'll be blessed in all things. Right? 247 00:09:00.889 --> 00:09:02.970 - Like, your your marriage will thrive just because 248 00:09:02.970 --> 00:09:04.809 - you're serving as the bishop where you really 249 00:09:04.809 --> 00:09:06.250 - have to make it that decision and be 250 00:09:06.250 --> 00:09:08.250 - intentional about it. Right. You do have to 251 00:09:08.250 --> 00:09:08.830 - be intentional. 252 00:09:09.195 --> 00:09:10.475 - I think we need to think of the 253 00:09:10.475 --> 00:09:13.355 - calling as a couple's calling. Even though the 254 00:09:13.355 --> 00:09:16.794 - bishop's the one that's officially set apart, it's 255 00:09:16.794 --> 00:09:18.654 - gonna be a way easier calling 256 00:09:19.035 --> 00:09:21.595 - if two people share the burden. If he 257 00:09:21.595 --> 00:09:23.995 - feels like he has a spouse that he 258 00:09:23.995 --> 00:09:25.079 - can confide 259 00:09:25.459 --> 00:09:26.600 - in when he's sad 260 00:09:26.980 --> 00:09:29.539 - or he can confide in when he's nervous 261 00:09:29.539 --> 00:09:30.759 - or when he's frustrated 262 00:09:31.299 --> 00:09:32.519 - or when he's overwhelmed, 263 00:09:33.059 --> 00:09:34.899 - these are things that she's there for. He 264 00:09:34.899 --> 00:09:36.039 - needs to have someone 265 00:09:36.500 --> 00:09:38.039 - who he can trust 266 00:09:38.500 --> 00:09:40.200 - to be with him and to care. 267 00:09:40.715 --> 00:09:43.615 - So she needs to care about the congregation. 268 00:09:43.754 --> 00:09:44.955 - I call him the sheep. She needs to 269 00:09:44.955 --> 00:09:46.235 - care about his sheep as much as he 270 00:09:46.235 --> 00:09:48.095 - does. And how can she care 271 00:09:48.475 --> 00:09:50.654 - about what he's doing and what he's 272 00:09:51.115 --> 00:09:53.595 - ministering to if if she doesn't know anything 273 00:09:53.595 --> 00:09:56.190 - about it? Yeah. Yeah. So we I think 274 00:09:56.190 --> 00:09:57.950 - we need to reframe this idea, and this 275 00:09:57.950 --> 00:10:00.830 - may be radical that you just can't share 276 00:10:00.830 --> 00:10:02.110 - anything if you're if you're a priest or 277 00:10:02.110 --> 00:10:03.710 - leader. You need to be careful about what 278 00:10:03.710 --> 00:10:05.309 - you share and how you share it, and 279 00:10:05.309 --> 00:10:07.544 - there's some guidelines for sharing it. But you 280 00:10:07.544 --> 00:10:09.544 - have to share or it's or you're just 281 00:10:09.544 --> 00:10:11.304 - gonna drift apart as a couple. Yeah. So 282 00:10:11.304 --> 00:10:13.544 - at least at least, you know, not progress 283 00:10:13.544 --> 00:10:16.264 - as a couple. Yeah. For sure. And sometimes 284 00:10:16.264 --> 00:10:18.264 - there's just that weight of the calling at 285 00:10:18.264 --> 00:10:20.720 - times and maybe a leader's new to this 286 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:22.240 - world and they just they just don't want 287 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:24.399 - making a miss mistake. They don't wanna overshare. 288 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:26.240 - They don't wanna, you know, share something that 289 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.240 - they weren't supposed to share. And then so 290 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:30.000 - then they think, well, I'll just not share 291 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:32.595 - anything. And it's sort of like, you know, 292 00:10:32.595 --> 00:10:34.754 - the bishop comes back home from a night 293 00:10:34.754 --> 00:10:36.595 - of meetings and, you know, that he might 294 00:10:36.595 --> 00:10:38.674 - as have been in the abyss somewhere, you 295 00:10:38.674 --> 00:10:40.835 - know, because and doesn't share anything and just 296 00:10:40.835 --> 00:10:42.754 - kind of expects to carry on with the 297 00:10:42.754 --> 00:10:44.914 - evening when he's carrying a lot of a 298 00:10:44.914 --> 00:10:46.879 - lot of spiritual weight. Right. 299 00:10:47.420 --> 00:10:49.179 - You know, the first time well, I guess 300 00:10:49.179 --> 00:10:50.940 - it was when Brett was called one of 301 00:10:50.940 --> 00:10:52.220 - the times that he was called to serve 302 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:54.139 - in the o'clock. I can't remember that. But, 303 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:56.540 - whoever set him apart said use your wife 304 00:10:56.540 --> 00:10:58.299 - as a third counselor. Yeah. I'm hearing this 305 00:10:58.299 --> 00:11:00.574 - more and more. This is good. And what 306 00:11:00.574 --> 00:11:03.074 - happens is bishops don't get called generally 307 00:11:03.454 --> 00:11:06.975 - if their wives are not capable they're not 308 00:11:06.975 --> 00:11:09.694 - their equals. Mhmm. You've heard the joke that 309 00:11:09.694 --> 00:11:11.774 - when a leader is called, they look around 310 00:11:11.774 --> 00:11:13.134 - and see who the capable wife is and 311 00:11:13.134 --> 00:11:15.850 - they call the spouse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And 312 00:11:15.850 --> 00:11:17.769 - and I don't think that's far from the 313 00:11:17.769 --> 00:11:19.769 - truth. I think that a bishop needs to 314 00:11:19.769 --> 00:11:22.970 - have a capable wife, one, because he's she 315 00:11:22.970 --> 00:11:24.570 - needs to make manage the home, so he's 316 00:11:24.570 --> 00:11:26.410 - not extra worried about things that are happening 317 00:11:26.410 --> 00:11:29.014 - at home. But two, because when he is 318 00:11:29.154 --> 00:11:29.654 - feeling 319 00:11:30.274 --> 00:11:33.154 - whatever kind of emotion that's overwhelming him, he 320 00:11:33.154 --> 00:11:34.835 - needs someone whose shoulder he can cry on. 321 00:11:34.835 --> 00:11:36.855 - He's not gonna cry on his counselor's shoulders. 322 00:11:36.915 --> 00:11:38.355 - You know, they need to see him as 323 00:11:38.355 --> 00:11:40.355 - a leader, and he's gonna consult with them. 324 00:11:40.355 --> 00:11:42.809 - He's gonna counsel with them, but he's not 325 00:11:42.809 --> 00:11:44.809 - gonna weep. It's the wife that's gonna be 326 00:11:44.809 --> 00:11:46.169 - the one who says, honey, I know you 327 00:11:46.169 --> 00:11:48.089 - can do this. And I know it's hard, 328 00:11:48.089 --> 00:11:49.450 - and I know that your heart is broken 329 00:11:49.450 --> 00:11:51.929 - because of what's happening. And my heart's broken 330 00:11:51.929 --> 00:11:53.529 - too because it makes me sad to see 331 00:11:53.529 --> 00:11:55.929 - you sad. Yeah. And she's the one who 332 00:11:55.929 --> 00:11:58.495 - loves him through all of this. And he 333 00:11:58.495 --> 00:12:00.415 - doesn't have to tell her he doesn't have 334 00:12:00.415 --> 00:12:02.495 - to use names. He doesn't have to tell 335 00:12:02.495 --> 00:12:05.615 - her who's experiencing what, but he can tell 336 00:12:05.615 --> 00:12:08.915 - her what he's experiencing. I'm so sad because 337 00:12:09.215 --> 00:12:11.690 - something's happening and this is the nature of, 338 00:12:11.690 --> 00:12:13.529 - you know, this couple that I just admire 339 00:12:13.529 --> 00:12:15.529 - so much, and they're gonna get divorced. You 340 00:12:15.529 --> 00:12:17.129 - know? You need to know who it is. 341 00:12:17.129 --> 00:12:18.649 - And she doesn't even need to dig and 342 00:12:18.649 --> 00:12:20.009 - try to figure out who it is. That's 343 00:12:20.009 --> 00:12:22.089 - not even necessary. She just needs to be 344 00:12:22.089 --> 00:12:23.949 - there for him in his grief. 345 00:12:24.495 --> 00:12:26.335 - And same thing in his in his joy. 346 00:12:26.335 --> 00:12:28.095 - You know, there's gonna be times when, you 347 00:12:28.095 --> 00:12:29.615 - know, they what's the other joke? They say, 348 00:12:29.615 --> 00:12:31.774 - when you're a bishop and there are things 349 00:12:31.774 --> 00:12:33.394 - that you know 350 00:12:33.774 --> 00:12:36.654 - that you wish everybody knew, and there are 351 00:12:36.654 --> 00:12:37.934 - things that you know that you wish you 352 00:12:37.934 --> 00:12:40.610 - never had to know. Yeah. And so the 353 00:12:40.610 --> 00:12:42.370 - things that you wish everybody knew, maybe you 354 00:12:42.370 --> 00:12:44.769 - can or can't tell, but you can celebrate, 355 00:12:44.769 --> 00:12:46.690 - man, I was so happy today because I 356 00:12:46.690 --> 00:12:48.769 - just learned this kid that I've been working 357 00:12:48.769 --> 00:12:50.370 - with and working with and working with is 358 00:12:50.370 --> 00:12:51.809 - worthy to go on a mission. And you 359 00:12:51.809 --> 00:12:53.410 - don't know who it is, but you know 360 00:12:53.410 --> 00:12:55.365 - how happy he is. Yeah. I really love 361 00:12:55.365 --> 00:12:56.965 - that. And as you talk through that, it 362 00:12:56.965 --> 00:12:59.684 - reminds me of the president Nelson story. He 363 00:12:59.684 --> 00:13:01.445 - talks about his first wife when, you know, 364 00:13:01.445 --> 00:13:03.545 - he came home from the Operating Room just 365 00:13:03.764 --> 00:13:06.165 - so disappointed and frustrated. And I think, you 366 00:13:06.165 --> 00:13:08.165 - know, maybe some patients had passed away, you 367 00:13:08.165 --> 00:13:09.764 - know, while he was working on them and 368 00:13:09.764 --> 00:13:12.059 - and just kinda just wept on the floor. 369 00:13:12.059 --> 00:13:14.059 - And then after some time, you know, his 370 00:13:14.059 --> 00:13:15.820 - wife kinda picked him up and said, no. 371 00:13:15.820 --> 00:13:17.820 - You're gonna get that suit back on tomorrow 372 00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:19.820 - and get back out there because people need 373 00:13:19.820 --> 00:13:21.820 - you and your skill. And, you know, obviously, 374 00:13:21.820 --> 00:13:23.679 - the world was blessed because of those encouragements. 375 00:13:24.164 --> 00:13:25.845 - Yeah. And a spouse is in the position 376 00:13:25.845 --> 00:13:27.544 - to know just what he needs to hear. 377 00:13:27.605 --> 00:13:29.365 - And he trusts her counsel. You know, she's 378 00:13:29.365 --> 00:13:31.605 - a counselor. Official or not official, he trusts 379 00:13:31.605 --> 00:13:33.764 - her because he knows how much she she 380 00:13:33.764 --> 00:13:35.924 - loves him. And if she really does care 381 00:13:35.924 --> 00:13:37.845 - about the congregation, if she really does care 382 00:13:37.845 --> 00:13:40.080 - about the sheep as much as he does, 383 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:41.860 - then she's not gonna be conflicted 384 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:45.220 - when it comes to his needing to minister. 385 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:47.759 - I recall a situation we had when Brett 386 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:50.000 - was serving the first time, and we had 387 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:52.080 - gone to dinner for our weekly day, you 388 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.340 - know, Friday night day was always priority. 389 00:13:54.774 --> 00:13:56.375 - And we were in the middle of this 390 00:13:56.375 --> 00:13:58.934 - beautiful dinner, finally by ourselves, had a babysitter 391 00:13:58.934 --> 00:14:00.714 - for the kids, and he got a call. 392 00:14:01.014 --> 00:14:03.654 - And it was a frantic mother, and she 393 00:14:03.654 --> 00:14:04.154 - said, 394 00:14:04.455 --> 00:14:07.414 - Bishop, my son has run away from home, 395 00:14:07.414 --> 00:14:09.115 - and he's gone to live with his girlfriend. 396 00:14:09.459 --> 00:14:12.339 - And the mother explained that the girlfriend lived 397 00:14:12.339 --> 00:14:15.379 - with her dad alone, completely unsupervised, and the 398 00:14:15.379 --> 00:14:16.899 - mom was super worried that he was gonna 399 00:14:16.899 --> 00:14:17.959 - break the law of chastity. 400 00:14:18.259 --> 00:14:18.759 - So 401 00:14:19.220 --> 00:14:21.379 - he says explained to me the problem. He 402 00:14:21.379 --> 00:14:22.980 - says, this mom's super worried about her kid. 403 00:14:22.980 --> 00:14:24.659 - And I said, we need to go rescue 404 00:14:24.659 --> 00:14:27.565 - that kid. So we left the meal. And 405 00:14:27.565 --> 00:14:30.065 - we went to the house the girlfriend's house, 406 00:14:30.445 --> 00:14:32.924 - and this young man opened the door and 407 00:14:32.924 --> 00:14:34.384 - he was not 408 00:14:34.845 --> 00:14:36.845 - appropriately dressed. I mean, it was pretty it 409 00:14:36.845 --> 00:14:38.730 - was a bit embarrassing for both of us. 410 00:14:38.970 --> 00:14:41.289 - But we went in and Bishop sat down 411 00:14:41.289 --> 00:14:42.970 - with him and said, you know, maybe we 412 00:14:42.970 --> 00:14:44.570 - could give this time to settle, you know, 413 00:14:44.570 --> 00:14:45.690 - so you're not so mad at your mom. 414 00:14:45.690 --> 00:14:47.209 - Maybe you can think really hard about your 415 00:14:47.209 --> 00:14:48.889 - decision here to run away from home. And 416 00:14:48.889 --> 00:14:50.490 - he didn't wanna go home, so I said, 417 00:14:50.490 --> 00:14:51.610 - well, why don't we let him come stay 418 00:14:51.610 --> 00:14:52.889 - at our house for a couple nights just 419 00:14:52.889 --> 00:14:54.845 - till he cools down. I would have never 420 00:14:54.845 --> 00:14:57.404 - done that if I didn't care about the 421 00:14:57.404 --> 00:14:58.924 - sheep the way my husband cared about the 422 00:14:58.924 --> 00:15:00.605 - sheep. So we brought him home. Stayed at 423 00:15:00.605 --> 00:15:01.884 - our house for a couple days. I took 424 00:15:01.884 --> 00:15:03.725 - him to work and finally he had calmed 425 00:15:03.725 --> 00:15:05.644 - down enough that they could talk and he 426 00:15:05.644 --> 00:15:08.544 - went back, stayed home, reconciled with his mom, 427 00:15:08.740 --> 00:15:11.299 - turned out to be a great kid. He 428 00:15:11.299 --> 00:15:13.460 - served himself as a bishop later in life. 429 00:15:13.460 --> 00:15:16.259 - Oh, cool. Yeah. So I just think that, 430 00:15:16.259 --> 00:15:17.860 - you know, I don't know if if Brett 431 00:15:17.860 --> 00:15:19.700 - would have said, we need to leave this 432 00:15:19.700 --> 00:15:21.940 - meal. We're finally having a date, and you 433 00:15:21.940 --> 00:15:23.379 - need to have this kid come into our 434 00:15:23.379 --> 00:15:25.654 - home. If we hadn't been on the same 435 00:15:25.654 --> 00:15:27.274 - team, you know, if we hadn't 436 00:15:27.735 --> 00:15:29.035 - been always communicating 437 00:15:29.735 --> 00:15:31.735 - about the needs of of the members of 438 00:15:31.735 --> 00:15:34.615 - the ward. Yeah. Is there anything specific you 439 00:15:34.615 --> 00:15:36.615 - did? Like, is it important to have that 440 00:15:36.615 --> 00:15:39.110 - sort of that intentional conversation of it? Like, 441 00:15:39.110 --> 00:15:40.389 - okay. How are we gonna do this in 442 00:15:40.389 --> 00:15:42.389 - the beginning? Or or what tips would you 443 00:15:42.389 --> 00:15:44.149 - give to, you know, in the beginning as 444 00:15:44.149 --> 00:15:46.069 - as the calling as the bishop has just 445 00:15:46.069 --> 00:15:48.309 - been set apart or whatever it is? I'll 446 00:15:48.309 --> 00:15:49.669 - tell you one of the most valuable things 447 00:15:49.669 --> 00:15:51.990 - that we did not learn until we became 448 00:15:51.990 --> 00:15:52.809 - mission leaders. 449 00:15:53.144 --> 00:15:56.024 - And this I really recommend it for every 450 00:15:56.024 --> 00:15:58.425 - couple, whether it's a whatever calling that you're 451 00:15:58.425 --> 00:16:00.365 - in. It can be a super difficult calling. 452 00:16:00.425 --> 00:16:02.665 - It can be a less difficult calling. But 453 00:16:02.665 --> 00:16:05.305 - we did companionship study every morning like you're 454 00:16:05.305 --> 00:16:07.404 - supposed to when you're missionary companions. 455 00:16:07.809 --> 00:16:09.570 - And when we were missionary companions, we talked 456 00:16:09.570 --> 00:16:12.129 - about the missionaries because they were our sheep. 457 00:16:12.129 --> 00:16:14.050 - And we both cared about them, and we 458 00:16:14.050 --> 00:16:15.430 - both received inspiration 459 00:16:16.050 --> 00:16:18.290 - as to what the missionaries needed. We studied 460 00:16:18.290 --> 00:16:20.610 - our scriptures together with the missionaries needs in 461 00:16:20.610 --> 00:16:22.735 - mind. We studied and with the idea of 462 00:16:22.735 --> 00:16:24.095 - what are we gonna talk about at zone 463 00:16:24.095 --> 00:16:25.855 - conference? What are we gonna talk about when 464 00:16:25.855 --> 00:16:27.855 - we go to interviews this week? And so 465 00:16:27.855 --> 00:16:29.634 - that couple's time in the morning 466 00:16:30.174 --> 00:16:32.095 - really it put us in a position where 467 00:16:32.095 --> 00:16:34.639 - we could receive revelation for the calling. And 468 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:36.320 - since we've been home, we've kept it up. 469 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:37.919 - We've been home for six years from the 470 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:40.160 - mission, and we still do companionship study in 471 00:16:40.160 --> 00:16:43.139 - the morning. Now Brett's the stake president, and 472 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:45.840 - we still discuss, you know, let's different callings 473 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.074 - that he needs to extend. I know the 474 00:16:48.074 --> 00:16:50.154 - people in the state. I know the sisters 475 00:16:50.154 --> 00:16:51.914 - in the state better than he does. So 476 00:16:51.914 --> 00:16:54.714 - he trusts a lot of the recommendations that 477 00:16:54.714 --> 00:16:57.115 - I give him. So one of the cautions 478 00:16:57.115 --> 00:17:00.014 - about that is when we do make recommendations 479 00:17:00.314 --> 00:17:02.209 - as a spouse, we have to remember 480 00:17:02.509 --> 00:17:03.889 - that they're recommendations, 481 00:17:04.429 --> 00:17:06.109 - and the person with the mantle makes the 482 00:17:06.109 --> 00:17:06.609 - decision. 483 00:17:06.990 --> 00:17:09.250 - And a spouse is never in a position 484 00:17:09.470 --> 00:17:09.970 - to 485 00:17:10.349 --> 00:17:13.950 - criticize or second guess or say I told 486 00:17:13.950 --> 00:17:16.109 - you so about a decision that the priestly 487 00:17:16.109 --> 00:17:18.184 - ear makes. She gives the input, 488 00:17:18.484 --> 00:17:20.105 - but he makes the final decision. 489 00:17:20.565 --> 00:17:23.044 - Yeah. That's really, really helpful. And and even 490 00:17:23.044 --> 00:17:24.325 - in, like, I break glad you bring up 491 00:17:24.325 --> 00:17:26.085 - sort of even the calling thing or I 492 00:17:26.085 --> 00:17:28.644 - remember coming home from, you know, meetings and 493 00:17:28.644 --> 00:17:30.884 - saying, like, okay. We're thinking about doing this 494 00:17:30.884 --> 00:17:33.000 - for fifth Sunday. Right? Like, let me kinda 495 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:34.519 - break it down for you. What feedback do 496 00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:36.359 - you have? Right? And there's just a different 497 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:38.759 - life experience that even my counselors wouldn't have 498 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:40.519 - that, you know, my wife could bring to 499 00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:41.799 - the table. And and, you know, as my 500 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:44.279 - counselors are having a similar conversation with their 501 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:46.119 - wives, and and it really was that team 502 00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:47.894 - effort. And, you you know, that that really 503 00:17:47.894 --> 00:17:50.375 - changes the the nature of that experience when 504 00:17:50.375 --> 00:17:52.134 - it feels like we're all in this together. 505 00:17:52.134 --> 00:17:54.455 - Right? Right. Well, one of the lucky things 506 00:17:54.455 --> 00:17:55.894 - when I served with Brett the first time 507 00:17:55.894 --> 00:17:57.654 - when he was the bishop, he called me 508 00:17:57.654 --> 00:17:59.940 - to be the seminary teacher. And so I 509 00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:01.380 - got to know the youth and the ward 510 00:18:01.380 --> 00:18:03.220 - really well because I was with them every 511 00:18:03.220 --> 00:18:04.839 - morning. And that became 512 00:18:05.140 --> 00:18:07.220 - a resource for him because the bishops in 513 00:18:07.220 --> 00:18:08.660 - charge of the youth, you know, that's his 514 00:18:08.660 --> 00:18:11.720 - primary calling as as the president Ron Christie. 515 00:18:12.105 --> 00:18:13.404 - And so he 516 00:18:13.785 --> 00:18:16.585 - knew who needed what a lot of times 517 00:18:16.585 --> 00:18:18.744 - based on what they had said or the 518 00:18:18.744 --> 00:18:20.204 - conversations that we'd had in seminary. 519 00:18:20.505 --> 00:18:22.184 - And then another time I was, you know, 520 00:18:22.184 --> 00:18:22.684 - president 521 00:18:23.224 --> 00:18:25.480 - when he was in the stake. And so 522 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:27.160 - we were able to kind of get the 523 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:29.240 - same kind of a dynamic going there where 524 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:30.680 - I could see things that he wouldn't have 525 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:32.599 - seen had it not been for the calling 526 00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:35.000 - that I had. Yeah. That's great. Any other 527 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:37.880 - advice for those newly called families in in 528 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:38.619 - these roles? 529 00:18:39.105 --> 00:18:41.025 - Well, I think a wife has to be 530 00:18:41.025 --> 00:18:41.684 - really careful. 531 00:18:41.984 --> 00:18:44.384 - When she's seen as a bishop's wife, people 532 00:18:44.384 --> 00:18:46.704 - know she knows stuff. Whether or not they 533 00:18:46.704 --> 00:18:48.244 - realize the bishop's sharing, 534 00:18:48.704 --> 00:18:51.345 - she is gonna be privy to conversations just 535 00:18:51.345 --> 00:18:52.944 - because she'll be in the car when he's 536 00:18:52.944 --> 00:18:54.569 - on the phone or she'll see who comes 537 00:18:54.569 --> 00:18:55.930 - to the door for an interview. You know, 538 00:18:55.930 --> 00:18:57.710 - she's gonna know stuff. And 539 00:18:58.009 --> 00:18:59.950 - she needs to be super trustworthy. 540 00:19:00.410 --> 00:19:02.910 - Like, I always say that the wife is 541 00:19:03.369 --> 00:19:05.390 - not an ATM. The wife 542 00:19:05.835 --> 00:19:08.075 - is a safe deposit box. So, you know, 543 00:19:08.075 --> 00:19:10.794 - the bishop can share things, but she does 544 00:19:10.794 --> 00:19:14.474 - not share with I really recommend anything about 545 00:19:14.474 --> 00:19:16.234 - the ward. If people wanna talk about the 546 00:19:16.234 --> 00:19:18.950 - ward, she can change the subject because if 547 00:19:18.950 --> 00:19:20.869 - she shares one small thing, they might think 548 00:19:20.869 --> 00:19:23.509 - that she knows other things that she shouldn't 549 00:19:23.509 --> 00:19:25.269 - be sharing. So I recommend that she just 550 00:19:25.269 --> 00:19:29.210 - talks about, you know, things that sports or 551 00:19:29.670 --> 00:19:32.549 - books or the scriptures. There's plenty of things 552 00:19:32.549 --> 00:19:34.845 - without talking about people in the ward. I 553 00:19:34.845 --> 00:19:37.265 - kinda learned this because I was a therapist 554 00:19:37.724 --> 00:19:39.325 - at the same time that that Brett was 555 00:19:39.325 --> 00:19:41.825 - serving, and so I had to keep confidences. 556 00:19:42.285 --> 00:19:44.785 - Yeah. That so I learned, you know, firsthand 557 00:19:44.924 --> 00:19:46.464 - the importance of keeping confidences 558 00:19:46.940 --> 00:19:48.400 - because I could lose my license. 559 00:19:48.859 --> 00:19:50.400 - Yeah. Yeah. That's a big deal. 560 00:19:51.099 --> 00:19:52.779 - So I remember one time we were having 561 00:19:52.779 --> 00:19:54.619 - dinner with some friends. We've gone out as 562 00:19:54.619 --> 00:19:57.980 - couples, and they started talking about a couple 563 00:19:57.980 --> 00:19:59.420 - in the ward that were having trouble in 564 00:19:59.420 --> 00:20:01.494 - their marriage. And this couple, I was seeing 565 00:20:01.494 --> 00:20:02.795 - them as their as their therapist. 566 00:20:03.174 --> 00:20:05.255 - And so I'm sitting here at dinner hearing 567 00:20:05.255 --> 00:20:06.075 - this conversation 568 00:20:06.695 --> 00:20:07.195 - and 569 00:20:07.575 --> 00:20:08.075 - knowing 570 00:20:08.375 --> 00:20:11.174 - that they're completely off base and they're kind 571 00:20:11.174 --> 00:20:13.230 - of judging and they shouldn't be judging. And 572 00:20:13.230 --> 00:20:14.829 - I can't say anything, you know? I just 573 00:20:14.829 --> 00:20:16.190 - am putting food in my mouth as fast 574 00:20:16.190 --> 00:20:17.710 - as I can so that they don't wonder 575 00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:19.569 - why I'm not participating in this conversation. 576 00:20:20.589 --> 00:20:21.950 - But I think it's a safety thing. I 577 00:20:21.950 --> 00:20:24.210 - think the members of the ward see you 578 00:20:24.269 --> 00:20:25.650 - as a trustworthy spouse 579 00:20:26.029 --> 00:20:27.890 - when you just don't pass on information. 580 00:20:28.304 --> 00:20:30.625 - Yeah. That's really good. I often hear about 581 00:20:30.625 --> 00:20:33.585 - this community shift that sometimes the bishop's wife 582 00:20:33.585 --> 00:20:35.744 - feels of, man, we were I was so 583 00:20:35.744 --> 00:20:37.345 - close with so many in the ward, and 584 00:20:37.345 --> 00:20:38.704 - I was just sort of one of the 585 00:20:38.704 --> 00:20:41.345 - ladies. And then my wife my husband got 586 00:20:41.345 --> 00:20:43.329 - called as bishop, and now I'm the, quote, 587 00:20:43.329 --> 00:20:46.369 - unquote, bishop's wife. Mhmm. And I feel a 588 00:20:46.369 --> 00:20:48.129 - shift. I feel a distancing. I feel like 589 00:20:48.129 --> 00:20:50.049 - people don't wanna engage with me. Is is 590 00:20:50.049 --> 00:20:51.809 - that common? Have you heard that before? I 591 00:20:51.809 --> 00:20:53.329 - think there is a shift like you say 592 00:20:53.329 --> 00:20:53.829 - because 593 00:20:54.289 --> 00:20:55.970 - they might not want things to get back 594 00:20:55.970 --> 00:20:57.835 - to the bishop that you know. You might 595 00:20:57.835 --> 00:20:59.455 - find out when you're lunching with the ladies. 596 00:20:59.515 --> 00:21:01.035 - Yeah. And they don't want that to get 597 00:21:01.035 --> 00:21:02.394 - back to the bishop. I think there is 598 00:21:02.394 --> 00:21:04.394 - a shift. But I think the reassurance is, 599 00:21:04.394 --> 00:21:06.235 - you know, your primary relationship is is that 600 00:21:06.235 --> 00:21:07.914 - of your spouse. Your spouse is your best 601 00:21:07.914 --> 00:21:09.914 - friend. And if the other relationships take a 602 00:21:09.914 --> 00:21:11.835 - back seat, it's not like you don't have 603 00:21:11.835 --> 00:21:13.630 - a best friend anymore. You know, you can 604 00:21:13.630 --> 00:21:16.349 - still be friends with them, but in a 605 00:21:16.349 --> 00:21:18.589 - different way, in a different shift. I mean, 606 00:21:18.589 --> 00:21:21.470 - my goodness. We've been doing this service forty 607 00:21:21.470 --> 00:21:23.890 - four years now. And as a state president, 608 00:21:24.029 --> 00:21:25.549 - there are probably things I'm a state president's 609 00:21:25.549 --> 00:21:26.829 - wife now. I don't think there's things that 610 00:21:26.829 --> 00:21:27.525 - people tell me 611 00:21:28.085 --> 00:21:28.585 - because 612 00:21:29.365 --> 00:21:31.205 - because it's not my business to tell them 613 00:21:31.205 --> 00:21:32.884 - to the stake president. When they're ready for 614 00:21:32.884 --> 00:21:34.744 - him to know, they'll tell them himself. 615 00:21:35.045 --> 00:21:36.345 - Yeah. It's also 616 00:21:36.724 --> 00:21:37.705 - not a bad idea 617 00:21:38.164 --> 00:21:40.589 - to have friends outside the church. Yeah. One 618 00:21:40.589 --> 00:21:42.829 - of the things that has been really rewarding 619 00:21:42.829 --> 00:21:44.990 - for me is to have friends that didn't 620 00:21:44.990 --> 00:21:46.829 - know I was the bishop's wife or didn't 621 00:21:46.829 --> 00:21:49.230 - understand what that entailed, and I could develop 622 00:21:49.230 --> 00:21:51.069 - really close relationships with those nonmembers. And, of 623 00:21:51.069 --> 00:21:53.154 - course, I live in Florida, so the opportunity 624 00:21:53.154 --> 00:21:55.875 - to develop relationships with nonmembers is is really 625 00:21:56.035 --> 00:21:58.195 - Yeah. Very well it's pretty easy. Yeah. Those 626 00:21:58.195 --> 00:22:00.355 - are my next question of if that if 627 00:22:00.355 --> 00:22:02.595 - the bishop's wife does feel that loneliness, you 628 00:22:02.595 --> 00:22:04.275 - know, what are some things to do? And 629 00:22:04.275 --> 00:22:05.955 - and I'd say, you know, outside of Utah, 630 00:22:05.955 --> 00:22:07.474 - maybe you can look outside the church for 631 00:22:07.474 --> 00:22:10.389 - friendships. Inside of Utah, you can look outside 632 00:22:10.389 --> 00:22:11.990 - the stake for friendships because it's really not 633 00:22:11.990 --> 00:22:12.710 - that far. You know? So 634 00:22:13.509 --> 00:22:16.389 - yeah. Even, you know, parents of your kids 635 00:22:16.389 --> 00:22:18.710 - or whatever that they probably don't or several 636 00:22:18.710 --> 00:22:20.549 - stakes away or whatever and Yeah. They play 637 00:22:20.549 --> 00:22:22.710 - sports together or people that you play sports 638 00:22:22.710 --> 00:22:25.045 - with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's 639 00:22:25.525 --> 00:22:27.365 - I mean, the I think that's just a 640 00:22:27.365 --> 00:22:30.485 - really important because if you're not intentional about 641 00:22:30.485 --> 00:22:32.485 - friendships or about going to lunch with the 642 00:22:32.485 --> 00:22:34.965 - ladies or it often can, you know, just 643 00:22:34.965 --> 00:22:36.644 - creates a vacuum that gets filled with other 644 00:22:36.644 --> 00:22:39.359 - stuff, but because you will feel moments of 645 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:40.099 - loneliness. 646 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:42.559 - My my I'd go back to the my 647 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:45.539 - mom has these old, you know, crocheted afghans 648 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.000 - that she crocheted back when my father was 649 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:49.920 - first bishop. This was before I was I 650 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.835 - was born, and and she just these these 651 00:22:52.835 --> 00:22:55.154 - Afghans represent kind of that loneliness because she's 652 00:22:55.154 --> 00:22:57.154 - like, I felt I was just home alone 653 00:22:57.154 --> 00:22:58.674 - with these young kids, and I would just 654 00:22:58.674 --> 00:23:01.234 - crochet, crochet, crochet, you know, and suddenly I 655 00:23:01.234 --> 00:23:03.955 - have this Afghan and and, but she remembers 656 00:23:03.955 --> 00:23:05.015 - at a time of loneliness. 657 00:23:05.529 --> 00:23:07.049 - Well, I do think that there has been 658 00:23:07.049 --> 00:23:08.490 - a shift. I think that, you know, when 659 00:23:08.490 --> 00:23:10.569 - my father served, you know, as a bishop, 660 00:23:10.569 --> 00:23:12.650 - I think that there was more of this 661 00:23:12.650 --> 00:23:14.809 - idea that you can't share anything with your 662 00:23:14.809 --> 00:23:17.230 - spouse. Yeah. I think that was a dangerous 663 00:23:17.289 --> 00:23:19.230 - place. I think that sometimes 664 00:23:19.694 --> 00:23:21.054 - that's one of the things that I think 665 00:23:21.054 --> 00:23:21.954 - causes women 666 00:23:22.494 --> 00:23:25.154 - to think that they want the priesthood, which 667 00:23:25.294 --> 00:23:26.575 - I don't think that women should have the 668 00:23:26.575 --> 00:23:28.115 - priesthood. But I think that women 669 00:23:28.654 --> 00:23:29.954 - who see men 670 00:23:30.414 --> 00:23:31.954 - as hoarding power 671 00:23:32.470 --> 00:23:33.930 - or men who see themselves 672 00:23:34.230 --> 00:23:35.529 - as powerful 673 00:23:35.830 --> 00:23:38.070 - because they know things that no one else 674 00:23:38.070 --> 00:23:38.570 - knows, 675 00:23:38.950 --> 00:23:40.230 - I think that's the type of thing that 676 00:23:40.230 --> 00:23:40.809 - a woman 677 00:23:41.190 --> 00:23:41.690 - resents. 678 00:23:42.070 --> 00:23:43.430 - You know, if you really you've been a 679 00:23:43.590 --> 00:23:45.830 - recently, you've been a bishop. You know, it's 680 00:23:45.830 --> 00:23:48.825 - really all about hard work. It's really all 681 00:23:48.825 --> 00:23:49.724 - about service. 682 00:23:50.424 --> 00:23:52.744 - And so if you're coveting the job of 683 00:23:52.744 --> 00:23:54.605 - a priesthood leader, you're coveting 684 00:23:54.984 --> 00:23:57.464 - a hard job that takes a lot of 685 00:23:57.464 --> 00:23:58.904 - time and a lot of effort and a 686 00:23:58.904 --> 00:24:00.940 - lot of heartbreak. But I don't think that's 687 00:24:00.940 --> 00:24:04.059 - what women want when they resent the fact 688 00:24:04.059 --> 00:24:05.419 - that they don't have the priesthood. I think 689 00:24:05.419 --> 00:24:07.119 - they're looking at men who 690 00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:09.659 - wield power. And one of the ways that 691 00:24:09.659 --> 00:24:12.380 - they wield power is by keeping all these 692 00:24:12.380 --> 00:24:14.940 - secrets to themselves because, you know, knowledge is 693 00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:16.315 - power. And if they 694 00:24:16.615 --> 00:24:19.015 - lord around this fact that I've got all 695 00:24:19.015 --> 00:24:21.015 - this knowledge that you don't have, it makes 696 00:24:21.015 --> 00:24:22.315 - the wife feel diminished. 697 00:24:22.694 --> 00:24:24.714 - So that's another risk of just 698 00:24:25.015 --> 00:24:27.355 - not sharing the things that you can share. 699 00:24:27.494 --> 00:24:29.255 - I think a priest leader wants to see 700 00:24:29.255 --> 00:24:31.890 - his spouse as his equal, And anytime he 701 00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:33.650 - starts to see himself as her as his 702 00:24:33.650 --> 00:24:35.970 - superior, it's gonna affect the marriage, and it's 703 00:24:35.970 --> 00:24:37.890 - gonna affect the marriage in a detrimental way. 704 00:24:37.890 --> 00:24:40.610 - Yeah. You mentioned, you know, that the church 705 00:24:40.610 --> 00:24:42.769 - calling should not be a tax on a 706 00:24:42.769 --> 00:24:44.610 - marriage. It should be an opportunity for a 707 00:24:44.610 --> 00:24:47.305 - couple to draw closer. Any any other concept 708 00:24:47.305 --> 00:24:49.545 - there that, you haven't mentioned? Well, you think 709 00:24:49.545 --> 00:24:51.085 - about what draws you closer 710 00:24:51.465 --> 00:24:53.484 - anyway, whether you're in a colony or not, 711 00:24:53.545 --> 00:24:54.845 - and it's having 712 00:24:55.144 --> 00:24:57.085 - similar goals. It's having 713 00:24:57.465 --> 00:24:58.845 - their similar priorities. 714 00:24:59.465 --> 00:25:02.125 - It's caring for what one another cares about. 715 00:25:02.345 --> 00:25:04.799 - It's helping one another in whatever it is 716 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:06.559 - you're working on. You know, when I when 717 00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:08.740 - I was serving working as a therapist, 718 00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:10.640 - I noticed I had couples that would come 719 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:12.000 - in and a lot of them would run 720 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:13.839 - a business together. I had a couple that 721 00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:15.359 - came in and they were they ran a 722 00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:17.440 - business, a skydiving business, and he was the 723 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.274 - pilot and she was the one who would 724 00:25:19.274 --> 00:25:20.974 - jump out of the plane Oh, wow. 725 00:25:21.755 --> 00:25:23.774 - With the people, the customers. 726 00:25:24.234 --> 00:25:25.914 - And they came in not because of their 727 00:25:25.914 --> 00:25:27.595 - marriage, because they had a really good marriage. 728 00:25:27.595 --> 00:25:29.214 - I mean, they were they were a team. 729 00:25:29.434 --> 00:25:32.130 - They worked together to for this similar goal. 730 00:25:32.210 --> 00:25:34.210 - They shared all the time, you know, what 731 00:25:34.210 --> 00:25:36.069 - can we do to promote our business. 732 00:25:36.369 --> 00:25:38.049 - And so I think if we look at 733 00:25:38.049 --> 00:25:39.730 - maybe a calling in the church in a 734 00:25:39.730 --> 00:25:41.349 - similar way, like, we're a team, 735 00:25:41.650 --> 00:25:44.450 - and what can we do to further the 736 00:25:44.450 --> 00:25:46.605 - goals of this team? And the team is, 737 00:25:46.605 --> 00:25:48.285 - of course, our our ward or our stake 738 00:25:48.285 --> 00:25:49.664 - or the family. 739 00:25:50.045 --> 00:25:51.884 - And how can I help you, and how 740 00:25:51.884 --> 00:25:54.205 - can you help me? And then that's what 741 00:25:54.205 --> 00:25:56.924 - helps anybody grow together. Yeah. And then I 742 00:25:56.924 --> 00:25:58.205 - feel like, you know, going back to that 743 00:25:58.205 --> 00:26:00.365 - experience you shared about the the youth and, 744 00:26:00.365 --> 00:26:02.659 - you know, moving in with his girlfriend where 745 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:04.079 - you felt part of the team. You felt 746 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.480 - empowered to, you know, say something or or 747 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:08.240 - encouraged at one direction or the other because 748 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:10.559 - it was part of that. And it seems 749 00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:12.640 - like and maybe you can correct me if 750 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:14.240 - I'm wrong, but, you know, being called as 751 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:17.045 - mission leaders, obviously, you're both, you know, called 752 00:26:17.045 --> 00:26:19.045 - and set apart and you're both in the 753 00:26:19.045 --> 00:26:20.585 - experience. It's obvious. Right? 754 00:26:21.045 --> 00:26:21.865 - And to me, 755 00:26:22.325 --> 00:26:25.464 - we we maybe don't create that culture 756 00:26:25.765 --> 00:26:27.605 - as well as it should be around being 757 00:26:27.605 --> 00:26:29.365 - called as a bishop or, you know, in 758 00:26:29.365 --> 00:26:31.390 - in this or a stake president where it's 759 00:26:31.390 --> 00:26:33.390 - like, no. This is a a an experience 760 00:26:33.390 --> 00:26:35.950 - our family's being called to even though dad's 761 00:26:35.950 --> 00:26:38.109 - the only one being set apart, right, as 762 00:26:38.109 --> 00:26:39.950 - in this role. Yeah. I just think it's 763 00:26:39.950 --> 00:26:41.950 - a paradigm shift. And I think for the 764 00:26:41.950 --> 00:26:44.430 - longest time, we've seen call ins as being 765 00:26:44.430 --> 00:26:45.170 - a separate 766 00:26:45.644 --> 00:26:47.884 - separate, a wife's calling, a husband's calling. But 767 00:26:47.884 --> 00:26:49.565 - one of the things I have loved as 768 00:26:49.565 --> 00:26:52.285 - I've observed the brethren is the way that 769 00:26:52.285 --> 00:26:54.465 - they've involved their wives in their callings. 770 00:26:54.924 --> 00:26:56.845 - I particularly love the Renlunds. You know, they 771 00:26:56.845 --> 00:26:58.945 - came to our mission while we were serving, 772 00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:02.240 - and they served together. You know, she the 773 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:02.740 - Karens 774 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:05.200 - came. They served together. She had a message 775 00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:06.880 - that was as powerful as the one that 776 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:09.519 - he shared. And I think it's really awesome 777 00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:11.840 - that we see so much of them, these 778 00:27:11.840 --> 00:27:14.080 - face to face conversations that the brother and 779 00:27:14.080 --> 00:27:16.305 - I are doing. They serve with their wives, 780 00:27:16.605 --> 00:27:18.684 - and that didn't happen when I was young. 781 00:27:18.684 --> 00:27:20.285 - So I think there's there's just a paradigm 782 00:27:20.285 --> 00:27:22.144 - shift where people see 783 00:27:22.605 --> 00:27:26.945 - husbands as being affected because they have wives 784 00:27:27.245 --> 00:27:29.289 - that are good counselors to them. I we 785 00:27:29.289 --> 00:27:31.130 - did have another member of the quorum of 786 00:27:31.130 --> 00:27:32.250 - the 12 come to our mission. I won't 787 00:27:32.250 --> 00:27:34.009 - tell you who it is, but it was 788 00:27:34.009 --> 00:27:36.089 - a really private meeting with just the mission 789 00:27:36.089 --> 00:27:38.089 - leaders. There was we had us and the 790 00:27:38.089 --> 00:27:40.490 - mission leader from an adjacent mission and then 791 00:27:40.490 --> 00:27:42.650 - the mission leaders from the MTC. There was 792 00:27:42.650 --> 00:27:45.845 - an MTC there. And this member of the 793 00:27:45.845 --> 00:27:48.085 - quorum of the twelve was sharing a scripture 794 00:27:48.085 --> 00:27:49.924 - with us. And he was, like, at the 795 00:27:49.924 --> 00:27:51.684 - pulpit, his wife was sitting right behind him. 796 00:27:51.684 --> 00:27:53.444 - And she says, honey, that's not where it 797 00:27:53.444 --> 00:27:54.964 - is. It's a that's a different place. And 798 00:27:54.964 --> 00:27:56.565 - she and she corrected him in front of 799 00:27:56.565 --> 00:27:58.009 - all of us and told us where the 800 00:27:58.009 --> 00:27:59.450 - scripture was. And he was so gracious. He 801 00:27:59.450 --> 00:28:01.450 - goes, oh, like, you're right. Thank you for 802 00:28:01.450 --> 00:28:03.710 - sharing that. And it was such a great 803 00:28:03.769 --> 00:28:05.929 - model for us to see how they worked 804 00:28:05.929 --> 00:28:08.329 - together and how he respected her opinion, and 805 00:28:08.329 --> 00:28:11.230 - she had no qualms in sharing her opinion. 806 00:28:11.524 --> 00:28:12.884 - So I think the brother are doing a 807 00:28:12.884 --> 00:28:13.944 - really good job 808 00:28:14.244 --> 00:28:16.825 - of helping the members of the church see 809 00:28:17.125 --> 00:28:17.625 - that 810 00:28:18.005 --> 00:28:19.384 - you can serve more effectively 811 00:28:19.684 --> 00:28:21.304 - when you're both on the same page. 812 00:28:21.605 --> 00:28:23.204 - When, you know, the wife cares about the 813 00:28:23.204 --> 00:28:24.964 - husband's calling, the husband cares about the wife's 814 00:28:24.964 --> 00:28:27.384 - calling, and you and you use one another 815 00:28:27.470 --> 00:28:28.289 - as a resource. 816 00:28:28.670 --> 00:28:29.730 - Yeah. That's powerful. 817 00:28:30.190 --> 00:28:31.630 - One thing in your notes in your outline 818 00:28:31.630 --> 00:28:33.630 - you put that really hit me is the 819 00:28:33.630 --> 00:28:36.670 - problem is not that the church servant, wife, 820 00:28:36.670 --> 00:28:39.150 - or husband is physically less available to the 821 00:28:39.150 --> 00:28:41.154 - spouse. The problem is that he or she 822 00:28:41.154 --> 00:28:44.455 - is emotionally less available. Unpack that for us. 823 00:28:44.515 --> 00:28:45.015 - Yeah. 824 00:28:45.315 --> 00:28:47.955 - Well, so example for example, you were able 825 00:28:47.955 --> 00:28:50.115 - to you didn't have children, you know, when 826 00:28:50.115 --> 00:28:51.414 - you first served as a bishop. 827 00:28:51.715 --> 00:28:52.455 - And so 828 00:28:52.769 --> 00:28:55.170 - being gone wasn't as big of a crisis 829 00:28:55.170 --> 00:28:57.170 - because the thing when a husband leaves and 830 00:28:57.170 --> 00:28:58.690 - there's a bunch of kids at home, the 831 00:28:58.690 --> 00:29:00.869 - wife's gonna be a lot more cranky 832 00:29:02.049 --> 00:29:03.650 - than than if she's just got some time 833 00:29:03.650 --> 00:29:04.930 - to herself to sit down and read a 834 00:29:04.930 --> 00:29:07.894 - book, you know. And so the being gone 835 00:29:08.355 --> 00:29:10.515 - is one thing. But, you know, like I 836 00:29:10.515 --> 00:29:11.795 - said with my dad, he could take. He 837 00:29:11.795 --> 00:29:14.275 - took the children with him. And when we 838 00:29:14.434 --> 00:29:16.515 - when now that we serve, you know, as 839 00:29:16.515 --> 00:29:18.515 - retired people, I can go with him. But 840 00:29:18.515 --> 00:29:20.695 - I think the the bigger issue 841 00:29:21.154 --> 00:29:23.829 - is the fact that you not just his 842 00:29:23.829 --> 00:29:26.250 - time is taken from you, but his attention 843 00:29:26.470 --> 00:29:28.869 - is taken from you. His thoughts are taken 844 00:29:28.869 --> 00:29:30.789 - from you. The things he cares about are 845 00:29:30.789 --> 00:29:33.190 - taken from you. I mean, you're gonna drift 846 00:29:33.190 --> 00:29:35.294 - apart if you don't share the things that 847 00:29:35.294 --> 00:29:35.954 - are important 848 00:29:36.255 --> 00:29:38.815 - to one another. Yeah. It could happen even 849 00:29:38.815 --> 00:29:40.575 - outside the church if you didn't share what 850 00:29:40.575 --> 00:29:43.535 - was what was important. Yeah. Because that's what 851 00:29:43.535 --> 00:29:46.575 - really what really cements a marriage is being 852 00:29:46.575 --> 00:29:49.130 - of one heart, being of one mind, not 853 00:29:49.130 --> 00:29:50.809 - necessarily even being in the same place. I 854 00:29:50.809 --> 00:29:52.330 - mean, you could be close to someone who 855 00:29:52.330 --> 00:29:55.450 - travels if you're talking every day and you're 856 00:29:55.450 --> 00:29:57.309 - sharing what's on your mind and you're receiving 857 00:29:57.610 --> 00:29:59.529 - the kind of support that you need. So 858 00:29:59.529 --> 00:30:01.394 - that's something you need to focus on. Yeah. 859 00:30:01.394 --> 00:30:03.555 - That's really good. I remember instances where, you 860 00:30:03.555 --> 00:30:05.555 - know, I'm at a church meeting and for 861 00:30:05.555 --> 00:30:08.515 - what whatever the topic or whatever we're we're 862 00:30:08.515 --> 00:30:10.275 - focusing on, it's almost I mean, I had 863 00:30:10.275 --> 00:30:12.755 - some deeply spiritual experiences as if almost the 864 00:30:12.755 --> 00:30:14.349 - heavens opened up and, you know, it was 865 00:30:14.349 --> 00:30:17.549 - just such a bonding spiritual experience for the 866 00:30:17.549 --> 00:30:19.490 - bishop break or the stake presidency or whatever 867 00:30:19.549 --> 00:30:21.149 - was the context. And then, you know, I'd 868 00:30:21.149 --> 00:30:22.909 - come home just sort of floating into the 869 00:30:22.909 --> 00:30:24.990 - room, just wow, you know, and and she's 870 00:30:24.990 --> 00:30:26.990 - watched, you know, whatever kids movie for the 871 00:30:26.990 --> 00:30:29.085 - eighteenth time. And, you know, it's like, 872 00:30:29.565 --> 00:30:31.644 - wow. You know, you can be you didn't 873 00:30:31.644 --> 00:30:34.204 - come back together on such different places because 874 00:30:34.204 --> 00:30:36.125 - we were doing such different things. And and 875 00:30:36.125 --> 00:30:38.544 - sometimes that gap is hard to amend or 876 00:30:38.684 --> 00:30:41.085 - ease into. Right. And you wanna share. When 877 00:30:41.085 --> 00:30:42.765 - you've had a a cloud you know, floating 878 00:30:42.765 --> 00:30:44.740 - on the cloud experience like that, the first 879 00:30:44.740 --> 00:30:46.019 - thing you wanna do is share it with 880 00:30:46.019 --> 00:30:48.019 - someone you love. Yeah. And if she doesn't 881 00:30:48.019 --> 00:30:49.319 - care or she's preoccupied 882 00:30:49.619 --> 00:30:51.859 - or, you know, the things that have mattered 883 00:30:51.859 --> 00:30:53.059 - to her more than the the things that 884 00:30:53.059 --> 00:30:54.500 - matter to you, that deprives you of that 885 00:30:54.500 --> 00:30:55.000 - opportunity 886 00:30:55.380 --> 00:30:56.980 - to share what's important to you and the 887 00:30:56.980 --> 00:30:59.174 - opportunity to bond. And a good listener is 888 00:30:59.174 --> 00:31:00.534 - gonna be just as excited as you are 889 00:31:00.534 --> 00:31:02.714 - about whatever it was that 890 00:31:03.015 --> 00:31:05.335 - delighted you so much. A really good listener 891 00:31:05.335 --> 00:31:06.775 - is gonna just tell me more about that, 892 00:31:06.775 --> 00:31:08.794 - you know. Oh, I'm so excited for you. 893 00:31:08.855 --> 00:31:10.775 - I really am happy that you had that 894 00:31:10.775 --> 00:31:12.534 - experience. And she is gonna be happy that 895 00:31:12.534 --> 00:31:15.159 - you had that experience. So that makes you 896 00:31:15.179 --> 00:31:17.440 - feel more loving towards her because she's been 897 00:31:17.660 --> 00:31:20.720 - so delighted for what you went through. Yeah. 898 00:31:20.859 --> 00:31:23.039 - And then she's more loving because you shared. 899 00:31:23.179 --> 00:31:24.779 - You had the you because you wanted to 900 00:31:24.779 --> 00:31:25.599 - share with her. 901 00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:27.764 - Yeah. What about, you know, just being wrapped 902 00:31:27.764 --> 00:31:30.085 - up in our own personal concerns? And this 903 00:31:30.085 --> 00:31:32.585 - happens even outside of these callings, right, where, 904 00:31:32.724 --> 00:31:35.204 - you know, whether it's going with my marriage, 905 00:31:35.204 --> 00:31:36.724 - like, I'm sort of wrapped up my day 906 00:31:36.724 --> 00:31:38.404 - to day, my career, my, you know, things 907 00:31:38.404 --> 00:31:41.080 - I'm projects I'm working on and, you know, 908 00:31:41.080 --> 00:31:43.320 - she's doing her focuses at home or with 909 00:31:43.320 --> 00:31:45.019 - the kids. And then those worlds 910 00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:47.080 - unite at the end of the, you know, 911 00:31:47.080 --> 00:31:48.940 - the beginning of the evening. And 912 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:51.559 - sometimes there's and this may be a a 913 00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:53.835 - male female dynamic where I don't necessarily wanna 914 00:31:53.835 --> 00:31:55.674 - rehash all that stuff or all the heaviness 915 00:31:55.674 --> 00:31:57.674 - or all those things, and she wants to 916 00:31:57.674 --> 00:31:59.115 - talk talk about it. You know, she hasn't 917 00:31:59.115 --> 00:32:01.674 - had adult conversation all day, and finally, she 918 00:32:01.674 --> 00:32:03.914 - wants to to chat about it. Any thoughts 919 00:32:03.914 --> 00:32:05.914 - around around that dynamic of when we get 920 00:32:05.914 --> 00:32:07.855 - kinda too wrapped up in our own concerns? 921 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:10.000 - Well, I think sometimes you you make the 922 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:10.500 - sacrifice 923 00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:12.640 - because you're in a marriage, and the marriage 924 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:13.460 - is more important 925 00:32:13.840 --> 00:32:16.160 - than anything else, even how tired you are. 926 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:17.519 - You know, you may put your head on 927 00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:18.880 - the pillow and you wanna just crash, but 928 00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:21.200 - your wife needs to share, and you make 929 00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:22.019 - that a priority 930 00:32:22.345 --> 00:32:24.505 - And whatever it takes so that you can 931 00:32:24.505 --> 00:32:27.065 - nurture the marriage, and it's more important than 932 00:32:27.065 --> 00:32:29.384 - whatever putting your feet up and watching the 933 00:32:29.384 --> 00:32:31.465 - television. That can't be the priority. The priority 934 00:32:31.465 --> 00:32:33.725 - has to be her needs or his needs. 935 00:32:33.945 --> 00:32:35.869 - Yeah. Really good. You asked me a little 936 00:32:35.869 --> 00:32:37.630 - bit you mentioned a little bit ago about 937 00:32:37.630 --> 00:32:39.789 - his world and her world, and it reminded 938 00:32:39.789 --> 00:32:41.890 - me of another situation we had that was 939 00:32:42.190 --> 00:32:44.909 - super tricky when Brett served the first time 940 00:32:44.909 --> 00:32:47.089 - as a bishop. Because I was a therapist, 941 00:32:47.869 --> 00:32:50.035 - a little girl in our ward, her mom 942 00:32:50.035 --> 00:32:51.815 - had brought her in to see me because 943 00:32:51.954 --> 00:32:53.654 - she had been molested 944 00:32:54.275 --> 00:32:57.394 - the by a young man. Turns out, the 945 00:32:57.394 --> 00:32:59.555 - young man goes to visit the bishop who 946 00:32:59.555 --> 00:33:00.454 - is my husband. 947 00:33:00.914 --> 00:33:03.394 - And so we had quite a difficult dynamic 948 00:33:03.394 --> 00:33:04.695 - there for a while 949 00:33:05.190 --> 00:33:05.690 - because 950 00:33:06.069 --> 00:33:07.210 - I'm trying to 951 00:33:07.509 --> 00:33:09.589 - help the little girl heal, and he's trying 952 00:33:09.589 --> 00:33:11.130 - to help the young man heal, 953 00:33:11.509 --> 00:33:13.750 - and we have to make our marriage the 954 00:33:13.750 --> 00:33:16.549 - priority. I couldn't make make my work my 955 00:33:16.549 --> 00:33:18.974 - priority, the little girl my priority. He couldn't 956 00:33:18.974 --> 00:33:19.474 - make 957 00:33:19.775 --> 00:33:22.015 - even his calling the priority. Our marriage had 958 00:33:22.015 --> 00:33:24.434 - to be the priority, and we had to 959 00:33:24.494 --> 00:33:26.494 - decide that, you know, I'm not gonna tell 960 00:33:26.494 --> 00:33:27.535 - you how to do your job, and you're 961 00:33:27.535 --> 00:33:28.575 - not gonna tell me how to do my 962 00:33:28.575 --> 00:33:31.055 - job because we need to be unified. And 963 00:33:31.055 --> 00:33:32.910 - I'm gonna trust you to do your job. 964 00:33:32.910 --> 00:33:34.830 - He's gonna trust me to do my job, 965 00:33:34.830 --> 00:33:37.470 - but it's not gonna affect how we regard 966 00:33:37.470 --> 00:33:39.890 - one another. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. 967 00:33:40.269 --> 00:33:42.990 - Obviously, you know, the it's still sage advice 968 00:33:42.990 --> 00:33:44.750 - as far as, you know, regular date night 969 00:33:44.750 --> 00:33:47.255 - and, you know, having those personal connections away 970 00:33:47.255 --> 00:33:49.515 - from careers or callings or, 971 00:33:49.815 --> 00:33:52.295 - you know, the household or children and anything 972 00:33:52.295 --> 00:33:54.295 - else to consider around date night when it 973 00:33:54.295 --> 00:33:56.234 - comes to these these types of callings? Obviously, 974 00:33:56.295 --> 00:33:58.630 - we encourage it, but anything else? Well, you 975 00:33:58.630 --> 00:34:00.470 - know, I think the purpose of date night 976 00:34:00.470 --> 00:34:02.789 - is connecting. I mean, you don't you don't 977 00:34:02.789 --> 00:34:05.130 - have to even leave the home to connect. 978 00:34:06.549 --> 00:34:08.069 - A lot of times so my son is 979 00:34:08.069 --> 00:34:10.304 - a bishop as well right now, and he 980 00:34:10.304 --> 00:34:12.144 - and his wife just like to go to 981 00:34:12.144 --> 00:34:13.664 - the beach and sit on the lifeguard stand 982 00:34:13.664 --> 00:34:15.505 - and watch the waves. And while they're sitting 983 00:34:15.505 --> 00:34:17.364 - there, they just talk about 984 00:34:17.664 --> 00:34:20.244 - the things that they're going through. And so 985 00:34:20.304 --> 00:34:21.664 - whether you call it a date night or 986 00:34:21.664 --> 00:34:23.425 - whether you call it companionship study in the 987 00:34:23.425 --> 00:34:25.489 - morning or whether you call it talking on 988 00:34:25.489 --> 00:34:27.010 - the phone when he's driving out of town, 989 00:34:27.010 --> 00:34:28.949 - whatever it is, just that opportunity 990 00:34:29.570 --> 00:34:31.590 - to connect. You don't have to be having, 991 00:34:31.730 --> 00:34:33.570 - you know, a celebration. I'd be having a 992 00:34:33.570 --> 00:34:35.570 - fancy dinner, but you do have to have 993 00:34:35.570 --> 00:34:37.429 - some time alone without interruptions. 994 00:34:37.889 --> 00:34:39.170 - And, you know, one of the things that 995 00:34:39.170 --> 00:34:40.735 - I was that I was thinking 996 00:34:41.355 --> 00:34:44.094 - is you have to be pretty pretty careful 997 00:34:44.554 --> 00:34:46.074 - when you are in this type of a 998 00:34:46.074 --> 00:34:46.574 - relationship 999 00:34:47.035 --> 00:34:49.275 - that you both have pure motives. You know, 1000 00:34:49.275 --> 00:34:51.755 - we talk about the wife needing or wanting 1001 00:34:51.755 --> 00:34:53.755 - to know what's going on in in the 1002 00:34:53.755 --> 00:34:54.255 - ward, 1003 00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:56.900 - and she can't do that just because she's 1004 00:34:56.900 --> 00:34:57.400 - curious. 1005 00:34:57.859 --> 00:35:00.440 - She can't do it just because she's nosy. 1006 00:35:00.500 --> 00:35:01.719 - You know? Her motive 1007 00:35:02.500 --> 00:35:03.000 - for 1008 00:35:03.380 --> 00:35:05.460 - for wanting to know what's going on has 1009 00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:06.119 - to be 1010 00:35:06.500 --> 00:35:08.440 - because she wants to 1011 00:35:08.819 --> 00:35:09.960 - lift his burden. 1012 00:35:10.425 --> 00:35:12.585 - She wants to comfort him if he needs 1013 00:35:12.585 --> 00:35:13.085 - comfort. 1014 00:35:14.025 --> 00:35:15.405 - She wants to be able to 1015 00:35:15.945 --> 00:35:17.885 - share if she gets a good idea. 1016 00:35:18.585 --> 00:35:21.005 - She's not she wants to strengthen the relationship. 1017 00:35:21.065 --> 00:35:22.605 - She's not trying to seek power. 1018 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:25.960 - She just really has pure motives because she 1019 00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:28.679 - wants him to succeed in his job. And 1020 00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:30.760 - whatever she can do to make him succeed 1021 00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:31.739 - in his job 1022 00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:33.500 - is gonna drive 1023 00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:35.099 - how she interacts. 1024 00:35:35.635 --> 00:35:37.315 - And if you don't have that pure motive, 1025 00:35:37.315 --> 00:35:40.035 - then you don't have any business really knowing 1026 00:35:40.035 --> 00:35:41.795 - what's going on. You just gotta do it 1027 00:35:41.795 --> 00:35:44.355 - for the right reason. And then the leader, 1028 00:35:44.355 --> 00:35:46.835 - the priesthood leader, needs to have his motive 1029 00:35:46.835 --> 00:35:48.215 - as well. He needs to 1030 00:35:48.595 --> 00:35:49.095 - recognize 1031 00:35:49.715 --> 00:35:52.319 - that I am listening to her not just 1032 00:35:52.319 --> 00:35:54.480 - to placate her, not just to make her 1033 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:55.760 - feel better, not just to pat her on 1034 00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:57.299 - the back and say, oh, yes. You're important. 1035 00:35:57.519 --> 00:35:59.760 - But I'm listening to her because I really 1036 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:02.400 - value her wisdom. I think that she's really 1037 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:04.559 - got good things to say, and I wanna 1038 00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:07.335 - know him. And he needs to acknowledge that 1039 00:36:07.335 --> 00:36:09.655 - sometimes the lord will send revelation to the 1040 00:36:09.655 --> 00:36:11.735 - wife. I think we've heard stories at general 1041 00:36:11.735 --> 00:36:13.835 - conference where the husband was just so busy 1042 00:36:14.375 --> 00:36:17.594 - doing what he does that he didn't ponder. 1043 00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:19.719 - And so finally, the Lord reached out to 1044 00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:21.719 - the wife and she got the revelation. She 1045 00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:24.039 - shared it. Lord find a way to get 1046 00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:25.639 - his work done. And he needs to be 1047 00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:27.159 - open to the fact that that could happen 1048 00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:28.679 - and see her as as someone that he 1049 00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:30.679 - could really listen to and learn from. And 1050 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:33.019 - he needs to see her as an equal, 1051 00:36:33.184 --> 00:36:34.164 - not as a superior 1052 00:36:34.545 --> 00:36:36.385 - by any means or not as inferior, but 1053 00:36:36.385 --> 00:36:36.885 - really 1054 00:36:37.264 --> 00:36:39.364 - as someone who with whom he's equally oaked. 1055 00:36:39.585 --> 00:36:42.085 - And I think that helps the communication. 1056 00:36:42.385 --> 00:36:44.385 - There's a purpose to the communication when when 1057 00:36:44.385 --> 00:36:46.244 - they both have pure motives 1058 00:36:46.625 --> 00:36:48.780 - for when you see another lifeguard standing there, 1059 00:36:48.860 --> 00:36:50.619 - they're talking about the people they both love. 1060 00:36:50.619 --> 00:36:52.619 - They're doing it for the right reason. Yeah. 1061 00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:55.579 - And that's just a good moment to kinda 1062 00:36:55.579 --> 00:36:58.140 - check yourself, you know, with everybody involved if, 1063 00:36:58.140 --> 00:36:59.820 - you know, what are my motives here? Why 1064 00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:02.860 - do I feel maybe resentful of this experience 1065 00:37:02.860 --> 00:37:04.864 - or this calling or and, 1066 00:37:05.164 --> 00:37:07.405 - you know, maybe there's moments of revelation that 1067 00:37:07.405 --> 00:37:09.164 - can help us create course there as we 1068 00:37:09.164 --> 00:37:10.925 - turn to turn to God. Right? So, you 1069 00:37:10.925 --> 00:37:12.844 - know, you talk about resentful, and I think 1070 00:37:12.844 --> 00:37:15.025 - that resentment can occur 1071 00:37:15.485 --> 00:37:18.349 - not just because a personal leader is always 1072 00:37:18.349 --> 00:37:20.210 - gone and you have a heavier burden, 1073 00:37:20.670 --> 00:37:23.150 - but resentment can occur when you're not taking 1074 00:37:23.150 --> 00:37:24.829 - good care of yourself. As a spouse, you 1075 00:37:24.829 --> 00:37:27.329 - know, we tend as Latter day Saint women 1076 00:37:27.390 --> 00:37:29.230 - to think that we're super moms and and 1077 00:37:29.230 --> 00:37:30.829 - that we can survive on four hours of 1078 00:37:30.829 --> 00:37:33.304 - sleep and that we only need to eat, 1079 00:37:33.304 --> 00:37:34.984 - you know, one meal a day or whatever, 1080 00:37:34.984 --> 00:37:35.565 - you know. 1081 00:37:35.864 --> 00:37:37.885 - We think that we should be able to 1082 00:37:38.025 --> 00:37:39.005 - handle the stress 1083 00:37:39.464 --> 00:37:41.864 - that's put on our shoulders. There's extra stress, 1084 00:37:41.864 --> 00:37:43.304 - you know, when you have a a demanding 1085 00:37:43.304 --> 00:37:45.085 - calling, your spouse has a demanding calling. 1086 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.199 - And moms need to make sure that they 1087 00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:50.119 - take good care of themselves so that they're 1088 00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:51.019 - in a position 1089 00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:53.480 - to be a resource to their spouse. And 1090 00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:55.159 - that's actually I have a whole section in 1091 00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:57.420 - the book on taking good care of yourself 1092 00:37:57.559 --> 00:37:59.500 - so that you can be a better resource 1093 00:38:00.125 --> 00:38:01.984 - to both the members of your congregation 1094 00:38:02.444 --> 00:38:05.405 - and to your spouse. It's actually called increasing 1095 00:38:05.405 --> 00:38:07.644 - your capacity to serve. And you increase your 1096 00:38:07.644 --> 00:38:11.085 - capacity to serve by sharpening the saw, basically, 1097 00:38:11.085 --> 00:38:13.585 - sitting back and taking good care of yourself. 1098 00:38:13.964 --> 00:38:15.505 - Yeah. That self care is always, 1099 00:38:15.940 --> 00:38:18.099 - you know, it's like the obvious thing to 1100 00:38:18.099 --> 00:38:20.340 - focus on, but it's so easily missed at 1101 00:38:20.340 --> 00:38:22.039 - times where it's like, oh, yeah. I've gotta 1102 00:38:22.179 --> 00:38:24.280 - actually shower in the mornings and, you know, 1103 00:38:24.739 --> 00:38:27.140 - just those things. How hard that sometimes is. 1104 00:38:27.140 --> 00:38:30.614 - Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Really good. Any thoughts like, 1105 00:38:30.855 --> 00:38:32.155 - I don't know. Obviously, 1106 00:38:32.775 --> 00:38:34.954 - we're both big fans of therapy and 1107 00:38:35.894 --> 00:38:38.855 - I'm just thinking of those bishop relationships or 1108 00:38:38.855 --> 00:38:41.414 - stake presidency relationships or, you know, these when 1109 00:38:41.414 --> 00:38:44.010 - these heavy callings are involved where, man, the 1110 00:38:44.010 --> 00:38:46.410 - marriage is not going well. And, you know, 1111 00:38:46.410 --> 00:38:48.489 - we put on the face for church and 1112 00:38:48.489 --> 00:38:50.090 - show up and try and be that happy 1113 00:38:50.090 --> 00:38:51.849 - family, but this could be the end of 1114 00:38:51.849 --> 00:38:54.090 - it. Right? Mhmm. This could lead to divorce 1115 00:38:54.090 --> 00:38:54.590 - and 1116 00:38:54.969 --> 00:38:57.130 - speak to that group that maybe somebody's experiencing 1117 00:38:57.130 --> 00:38:59.585 - that. You know, I've seen that happen too 1118 00:38:59.585 --> 00:39:02.065 - many times, and I think that may have 1119 00:39:02.065 --> 00:39:03.505 - been one of the things that motivated me 1120 00:39:03.505 --> 00:39:05.025 - to become a marriage therapist in the first 1121 00:39:05.025 --> 00:39:07.585 - place is because I was so astounded that 1122 00:39:07.585 --> 00:39:08.864 - people that I looked up to that were 1123 00:39:09.025 --> 00:39:11.550 - you know, had served as bishops, and they 1124 00:39:11.550 --> 00:39:12.989 - had struggled in their marriage and then their 1125 00:39:12.989 --> 00:39:13.730 - marriage ended. 1126 00:39:14.030 --> 00:39:16.190 - And so that's tragedy when it happens. I 1127 00:39:16.190 --> 00:39:18.449 - think it takes a lot of humility 1128 00:39:18.989 --> 00:39:21.329 - when you're in a leadership position to recognize 1129 00:39:21.710 --> 00:39:22.690 - that you're vulnerable 1130 00:39:23.150 --> 00:39:25.585 - and that you're not you don't have to 1131 00:39:25.585 --> 00:39:27.105 - be on a pedestal. You know, like a 1132 00:39:27.105 --> 00:39:28.864 - lot of leaders sometimes think that they have 1133 00:39:28.864 --> 00:39:29.844 - to be on a pedestal, 1134 00:39:30.144 --> 00:39:31.364 - and so that they can't 1135 00:39:31.664 --> 00:39:32.164 - admit 1136 00:39:32.545 --> 00:39:33.825 - that they may be having some of the 1137 00:39:33.825 --> 00:39:35.744 - same challenges that someone in the congregation is 1138 00:39:35.744 --> 00:39:37.344 - having. And so it takes a lot of 1139 00:39:37.344 --> 00:39:40.690 - humility to recognize I am human too, and 1140 00:39:40.690 --> 00:39:42.530 - I need to to get the help that 1141 00:39:42.530 --> 00:39:44.710 - I need if my marriage is struggling. 1142 00:39:45.090 --> 00:39:46.930 - You mentioned that, you know, sometimes we think 1143 00:39:46.930 --> 00:39:49.890 - that because we've agreed to serve that the 1144 00:39:49.890 --> 00:39:52.545 - Lord's gonna automatically bless us. But I think 1145 00:39:52.545 --> 00:39:55.045 - what happens is he gives us the opportunity 1146 00:39:55.905 --> 00:39:58.625 - to learn and to grow in these leadership 1147 00:39:58.625 --> 00:39:59.125 - callings, 1148 00:39:59.425 --> 00:40:01.105 - but we gotta take the opportunity. You know, 1149 00:40:01.105 --> 00:40:02.545 - he doesn't he stands at the door and 1150 00:40:02.545 --> 00:40:03.984 - knocks, but you gotta open the door. You 1151 00:40:03.984 --> 00:40:05.764 - know? You've heard that? Yeah. 1152 00:40:06.420 --> 00:40:08.659 - We really have to recognize, oh, wow. I'm 1153 00:40:08.659 --> 00:40:10.819 - learning something from this calling. I'm facing a 1154 00:40:10.819 --> 00:40:12.920 - situation I wouldn't have faced otherwise, 1155 00:40:13.380 --> 00:40:13.880 - and 1156 00:40:14.179 --> 00:40:16.420 - so I need to get some help for 1157 00:40:16.420 --> 00:40:18.280 - whatever situation that I'm facing. 1158 00:40:18.659 --> 00:40:20.775 - It's like I don't even know who you 1159 00:40:20.775 --> 00:40:22.554 - would go to, who you would trust 1160 00:40:22.934 --> 00:40:24.875 - to go to as, you know, for counseling 1161 00:40:25.255 --> 00:40:26.775 - if you were a bishop, maybe to your 1162 00:40:26.775 --> 00:40:27.514 - stake president. 1163 00:40:27.974 --> 00:40:29.734 - Maybe he could recommend someone like out in 1164 00:40:29.734 --> 00:40:31.574 - Utah where there's a bunch of members and 1165 00:40:31.574 --> 00:40:33.974 - a bunch of therapists, maybe somebody out of 1166 00:40:33.974 --> 00:40:36.170 - the stake. One of the things that's an 1167 00:40:36.170 --> 00:40:38.889 - incredible blessing nowadays is they're doing a lot 1168 00:40:38.889 --> 00:40:39.469 - of teletherapy, 1169 00:40:40.010 --> 00:40:41.549 - and you can get help online. 1170 00:40:41.849 --> 00:40:43.210 - And, you know, if you're a private person 1171 00:40:43.210 --> 00:40:45.449 - and you don't want anybody to know, that's 1172 00:40:45.449 --> 00:40:46.905 - kind of a good way to keep your 1173 00:40:46.985 --> 00:40:48.985 - your need to get therapy private. But I 1174 00:40:48.985 --> 00:40:49.724 - would encourage 1175 00:40:50.265 --> 00:40:51.244 - leaders to 1176 00:40:51.625 --> 00:40:53.485 - be honest about their humanity. 1177 00:40:53.864 --> 00:40:55.465 - And maybe not say, oh, my wife and 1178 00:40:55.465 --> 00:40:57.704 - I are having trouble, but just say, you 1179 00:40:57.704 --> 00:40:58.204 - know, 1180 00:40:58.505 --> 00:41:00.744 - I'm human too, and I understand what you're 1181 00:41:00.744 --> 00:41:03.119 - going through because we also have some struggles. 1182 00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:04.739 - You know, without going into detail, 1183 00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:06.980 - I think it's really a good thing for 1184 00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:09.280 - leaders to to be humble. I think it's 1185 00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:10.719 - good for them. I think it's good for 1186 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:12.659 - the congregation because then they don't expect 1187 00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:14.260 - the leader to 1188 00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:16.659 - never need time for himself or 1189 00:41:16.985 --> 00:41:18.985 - have all the answers. You know, if if 1190 00:41:18.985 --> 00:41:20.905 - you put yourself on a pedestal what do 1191 00:41:20.905 --> 00:41:22.425 - they say? Folks on a pedestal have to 1192 00:41:22.425 --> 00:41:24.985 - watch their step. Right? And so if you 1193 00:41:24.985 --> 00:41:27.065 - put yourself on a pedestal, people are gonna 1194 00:41:27.065 --> 00:41:29.065 - be disappointed if you if you fail them. 1195 00:41:29.065 --> 00:41:32.090 - So it's probably in your best interest not 1196 00:41:32.090 --> 00:41:34.250 - to put yourself on a pedestal. Yeah. Yeah. 1197 00:41:34.250 --> 00:41:35.610 - And just to let you know, hey. I 1198 00:41:35.610 --> 00:41:37.289 - didn't get trained for this calling. You know, 1199 00:41:37.289 --> 00:41:39.369 - I didn't have a background in leadership. I 1200 00:41:39.369 --> 00:41:40.909 - didn't have a background in therapy. 1201 00:41:41.210 --> 00:41:43.050 - I am winging it, so be with me. 1202 00:41:43.050 --> 00:41:44.650 - You know, help me succeed, but don't expect 1203 00:41:44.650 --> 00:41:47.070 - me to know exactly what I'm doing. Yeah. 1204 00:41:47.434 --> 00:41:50.815 - Wow. Such important conversations and dynamics that often 1205 00:41:51.114 --> 00:41:53.355 - just leave people feeling like they're on an 1206 00:41:53.355 --> 00:41:56.074 - island. And so, hopefully, somebody somewhere is hearing 1207 00:41:56.074 --> 00:41:58.655 - this and realizing there is help, there's resources, 1208 00:41:59.275 --> 00:41:59.594 - and, 1209 00:42:00.170 --> 00:42:02.410 - they're even available to the bishop's family. You 1210 00:42:02.410 --> 00:42:06.030 - know? Yeah. So Yeah. Any other point principle 1211 00:42:06.090 --> 00:42:08.730 - concept that we should consider about this, you 1212 00:42:08.730 --> 00:42:10.969 - know, marriage dynamic? Well, I think another thing 1213 00:42:10.969 --> 00:42:12.829 - that the wife needs to be careful about 1214 00:42:12.969 --> 00:42:13.789 - is that 1215 00:42:14.175 --> 00:42:14.675 - when 1216 00:42:15.135 --> 00:42:16.355 - she gets information, 1217 00:42:16.735 --> 00:42:18.114 - she needs to be really careful 1218 00:42:18.414 --> 00:42:19.875 - not just to keep it confidential, 1219 00:42:20.175 --> 00:42:21.454 - but she needs to be careful that she 1220 00:42:21.454 --> 00:42:22.434 - doesn't form judgments. 1221 00:42:22.815 --> 00:42:23.795 - Mhmm. Because 1222 00:42:24.414 --> 00:42:25.715 - we, as humans, 1223 00:42:26.094 --> 00:42:27.715 - are always off. 1224 00:42:28.250 --> 00:42:30.010 - If we form a judgment, we are gonna 1225 00:42:30.010 --> 00:42:32.329 - just always be off. Even as a therapist, 1226 00:42:32.329 --> 00:42:34.730 - you know, I got to know people inside 1227 00:42:34.730 --> 00:42:36.329 - and out. You know, like, they really shared 1228 00:42:36.329 --> 00:42:38.670 - their deepest selves with me. But I still, 1229 00:42:38.730 --> 00:42:40.809 - especially as a therapist, felt like I was 1230 00:42:40.809 --> 00:42:42.730 - in no position to judge them, which is 1231 00:42:42.730 --> 00:42:44.875 - one of the things that I just love 1232 00:42:45.014 --> 00:42:48.074 - about the atonement and about having a savior 1233 00:42:48.375 --> 00:42:48.875 - is 1234 00:42:49.175 --> 00:42:51.094 - he is in a perfect position to judge 1235 00:42:51.094 --> 00:42:51.594 - because 1236 00:42:52.054 --> 00:42:52.714 - he knows 1237 00:42:53.014 --> 00:42:55.414 - both sides of the coin. You know, like, 1238 00:42:55.414 --> 00:42:57.675 - he knows everything about the person 1239 00:42:58.054 --> 00:42:58.875 - who is 1240 00:42:59.289 --> 00:43:02.089 - maybe sinning. He knows everything about the person 1241 00:43:02.089 --> 00:43:04.589 - who has sinned against, who's been sinned against. 1242 00:43:04.730 --> 00:43:07.630 - He knows the struggles that we encountered 1243 00:43:08.089 --> 00:43:10.670 - as children. He knows the biological makeup 1244 00:43:10.969 --> 00:43:13.789 - that we have. He knows any limitations 1245 00:43:14.089 --> 00:43:16.905 - that we have. He is the perfect judge. 1246 00:43:17.045 --> 00:43:18.484 - And for us to think that we could 1247 00:43:18.484 --> 00:43:19.545 - even come close 1248 00:43:19.924 --> 00:43:22.405 - to making a judgment is just audacious. And 1249 00:43:22.405 --> 00:43:24.484 - so I think that it's really important if 1250 00:43:24.484 --> 00:43:25.704 - we do hear information 1251 00:43:26.405 --> 00:43:27.784 - as a supportive spouse 1252 00:43:28.110 --> 00:43:28.769 - that we 1253 00:43:29.470 --> 00:43:32.190 - recognize, I don't know enough. I just don't 1254 00:43:32.190 --> 00:43:34.510 - know enough to come to any conclusions about 1255 00:43:34.510 --> 00:43:35.010 - this. 1256 00:43:35.309 --> 00:43:35.809 - Yeah. 1257 00:43:36.110 --> 00:43:36.610 - So 1258 00:43:36.910 --> 00:43:39.309 - anything is there any unique dynamic? I'm just 1259 00:43:39.309 --> 00:43:41.150 - thinking, you know, there it just feels so 1260 00:43:41.150 --> 00:43:43.265 - heavy with the, you know, the bishop or 1261 00:43:43.265 --> 00:43:44.085 - the stake presidency 1262 00:43:44.465 --> 00:43:46.465 - role. But what about when the tables are 1263 00:43:46.465 --> 00:43:48.465 - turned? Is anything you would mind with the 1264 00:43:48.545 --> 00:43:50.865 - it's the spouse of a of a relief 1265 00:43:50.865 --> 00:43:53.585 - society president or I mean, just yeah. I 1266 00:43:53.585 --> 00:43:55.905 - think it's absolutely the same thing. It's probably 1267 00:43:55.905 --> 00:43:58.319 - even more difficult because women have a really 1268 00:43:58.319 --> 00:44:01.279 - easy time confiding in other women. Mhmm. And 1269 00:44:01.279 --> 00:44:03.199 - men don't do that quite so much. So 1270 00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:04.960 - if if a man is friendly, he he 1271 00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:07.119 - might just, you know, kinda hold his cards 1272 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:09.039 - to his chest, but a woman's gonna be 1273 00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:12.114 - more vocal. So I think it's equally important 1274 00:44:12.734 --> 00:44:14.195 - that a a husband 1275 00:44:14.815 --> 00:44:17.214 - recognize the importance of sharing, you know, what 1276 00:44:17.214 --> 00:44:19.614 - his wife's going through. So we served the 1277 00:44:19.614 --> 00:44:21.614 - second time my husband was the bishop actually, 1278 00:44:21.614 --> 00:44:23.135 - it was after he was a branch president, 1279 00:44:23.135 --> 00:44:24.755 - then he the third time he was bishop. 1280 00:44:25.050 --> 00:44:27.949 - We served in a Spanish speaking branch. And 1281 00:44:28.170 --> 00:44:30.410 - we had a couple in the branch. She 1282 00:44:30.410 --> 00:44:32.410 - was member, but he was not. He was 1283 00:44:32.410 --> 00:44:34.890 - Catholic or something like that. But he came 1284 00:44:34.890 --> 00:44:36.730 - to everything with her. She was really good 1285 00:44:36.730 --> 00:44:38.890 - at throwing parties, and he was the one 1286 00:44:38.890 --> 00:44:41.984 - that would carry the cooler of ice. And 1287 00:44:41.984 --> 00:44:43.585 - he was the one that would stand behind 1288 00:44:43.585 --> 00:44:45.984 - the grill, and he would, you know, flip 1289 00:44:45.984 --> 00:44:46.644 - the hamburgers. 1290 00:44:47.264 --> 00:44:49.984 - And they did everything together even though he 1291 00:44:49.984 --> 00:44:52.224 - wasn't a member, but he supported her in 1292 00:44:52.224 --> 00:44:52.885 - her calling 1293 00:44:53.344 --> 00:44:55.340 - like none other. And they they had so 1294 00:44:55.340 --> 00:44:57.260 - much fun together. I think that's one of 1295 00:44:57.260 --> 00:44:59.420 - the really key things is you can have 1296 00:44:59.420 --> 00:45:01.679 - fun together when when you're serving. 1297 00:45:01.980 --> 00:45:03.900 - My husband we've got girls camp coming up 1298 00:45:03.900 --> 00:45:05.679 - here in a few weeks. And 1299 00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:07.944 - my husband has to go or has been 1300 00:45:07.944 --> 00:45:09.864 - invited to go and and chaperone, and I've 1301 00:45:09.864 --> 00:45:12.125 - been invited to go and present a workshop. 1302 00:45:12.344 --> 00:45:13.944 - So we're both gonna be at girls camp 1303 00:45:13.944 --> 00:45:15.864 - together, and that's gonna be a fun opportunity, 1304 00:45:15.864 --> 00:45:17.464 - you know. Maybe have a water balloon fight 1305 00:45:17.464 --> 00:45:19.244 - with those girls, you know. Maybe 1306 00:45:19.929 --> 00:45:21.690 - just jump off the diving board into the 1307 00:45:21.690 --> 00:45:22.969 - pool with them, you know. You can do 1308 00:45:22.969 --> 00:45:25.130 - a lot of fun things when you're serving 1309 00:45:25.130 --> 00:45:27.130 - together. It doesn't have to always be just 1310 00:45:27.130 --> 00:45:29.690 - a big old burden on your shoulders because 1311 00:45:29.690 --> 00:45:31.369 - there's a lot of fun things that you 1312 00:45:31.369 --> 00:45:33.485 - can do as a bishop, especially as a 1313 00:45:33.485 --> 00:45:35.565 - leader of the youth. Even if you if 1314 00:45:35.565 --> 00:45:37.325 - the wife was available, she could even go 1315 00:45:37.325 --> 00:45:39.805 - to the the weeknight activities because he should 1316 00:45:39.805 --> 00:45:41.724 - be there every week anyway because he's the 1317 00:45:41.724 --> 00:45:43.565 - leader of the young men. And if she 1318 00:45:43.565 --> 00:45:45.085 - could go with him, I mean, they can 1319 00:45:45.085 --> 00:45:47.300 - be playing volleyball together with the youth. And 1320 00:45:47.300 --> 00:45:49.639 - that's just fun. That's not work. 1321 00:45:50.019 --> 00:45:51.000 - Yeah. That's awesome. 1322 00:45:51.539 --> 00:45:54.179 - Anything related to what about the considering the 1323 00:45:54.179 --> 00:45:56.739 - relationship with the children, whether they're young, older, 1324 00:45:56.739 --> 00:45:57.239 - teenagers, 1325 00:45:57.539 --> 00:46:00.199 - maybe out of the house, anything there? Well, 1326 00:46:00.364 --> 00:46:01.804 - once again, taking them with you when you 1327 00:46:01.804 --> 00:46:02.304 - can, 1328 00:46:02.605 --> 00:46:04.525 - going to as many events as you can. 1329 00:46:04.525 --> 00:46:05.804 - It's kind of a benefit if you're a 1330 00:46:05.804 --> 00:46:08.284 - bishop and you have teenagers because teenagers have 1331 00:46:08.284 --> 00:46:09.264 - so many activities, 1332 00:46:09.804 --> 00:46:11.505 - and you're required to be there anyway. 1333 00:46:11.804 --> 00:46:13.800 - And so I think, you know, that's that's 1334 00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:15.000 - a great time to be a bishop if 1335 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:17.320 - you have adolescents in your home and just 1336 00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:19.079 - join in the activities. Yeah. You know, one 1337 00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:21.000 - thing again, a lot of times we think 1338 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:22.760 - that it's it's such a privilege to be 1339 00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:23.800 - called as a leader, and it is a 1340 00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:25.635 - privilege to be called as a leader. But 1341 00:46:25.795 --> 00:46:27.815 - it's also a huge responsibility, 1342 00:46:28.275 --> 00:46:29.335 - and it also 1343 00:46:29.715 --> 00:46:30.215 - requires 1344 00:46:30.594 --> 00:46:32.275 - a lot of time and a lot of 1345 00:46:32.275 --> 00:46:34.195 - work. And I've noticed, you know, my husband 1346 00:46:34.195 --> 00:46:36.114 - invites me to go with him to many, 1347 00:46:36.114 --> 00:46:38.114 - many different meetings now that he's the stake 1348 00:46:38.114 --> 00:46:39.940 - president. And one of the meetings one of 1349 00:46:39.940 --> 00:46:41.300 - the things that he does is he invites 1350 00:46:41.300 --> 00:46:42.980 - me to come with him when he sets 1351 00:46:42.980 --> 00:46:44.980 - a missionary apart to go on a mission. 1352 00:46:44.980 --> 00:46:46.180 - And we do that a lot. Like, we 1353 00:46:46.180 --> 00:46:48.019 - probably do that, you know, every other week, 1354 00:46:48.019 --> 00:46:50.340 - which is just really fun. He invites me 1355 00:46:50.340 --> 00:46:52.099 - because, you know, I've I've served a mission 1356 00:46:52.099 --> 00:46:53.724 - with him, and he'll ask me to share 1357 00:46:53.724 --> 00:46:55.885 - a little bit of advice with whoever's whoever's 1358 00:46:55.885 --> 00:46:57.804 - gonna be serving. But that's fun for us 1359 00:46:57.804 --> 00:46:58.625 - to go together 1360 00:46:58.925 --> 00:47:01.565 - and to celebrate this really neat, not neat 1361 00:47:01.565 --> 00:47:04.065 - time where this couple or this young person's 1362 00:47:04.125 --> 00:47:05.940 - gonna be going on a mission. And the 1363 00:47:05.940 --> 00:47:07.940 - other thing we do is we have mission 1364 00:47:07.940 --> 00:47:10.599 - leadership training or not mission, mission correlation. 1365 00:47:10.980 --> 00:47:13.059 - Oh, yeah. And he invites me to come 1366 00:47:13.059 --> 00:47:14.659 - to that, and we talk about how we 1367 00:47:14.659 --> 00:47:16.500 - can improve the missionary work on our stake. 1368 00:47:16.500 --> 00:47:18.579 - And I teach stake mission prep, and so 1369 00:47:18.579 --> 00:47:20.765 - he comes to my class, and we do 1370 00:47:20.765 --> 00:47:22.704 - role plays together because the missionaries 1371 00:47:23.005 --> 00:47:24.385 - the people that are gonna be missionaries, 1372 00:47:24.684 --> 00:47:26.765 - they need to see how to do missionary 1373 00:47:26.765 --> 00:47:28.605 - work. So we role play for them. And 1374 00:47:28.605 --> 00:47:30.844 - that is fun. I mean, they laugh when 1375 00:47:30.844 --> 00:47:32.699 - they when they see us role play, and 1376 00:47:32.699 --> 00:47:34.639 - they laugh even harder when it's their turn 1377 00:47:34.780 --> 00:47:36.800 - to do a role play. But it's work. 1378 00:47:36.859 --> 00:47:38.300 - Like, I could be I could be sitting 1379 00:47:38.300 --> 00:47:40.699 - home, you know, reading my favorite book because 1380 00:47:40.699 --> 00:47:42.619 - I love to read. But I make that 1381 00:47:42.619 --> 00:47:44.219 - sacrifice to go with him to all these 1382 00:47:44.219 --> 00:47:46.159 - different places. He has to be anyway 1383 00:47:46.695 --> 00:47:49.255 - because I wanna nurture our relationship. I wanna 1384 00:47:49.255 --> 00:47:51.575 - support him, and I want us to grow 1385 00:47:51.575 --> 00:47:53.994 - together as a couple. So every opportunity 1386 00:47:54.695 --> 00:47:56.454 - that we have, there's so many things that 1387 00:47:56.454 --> 00:47:57.974 - a wife can go to if she wants 1388 00:47:57.974 --> 00:47:59.815 - to. You know, he gets invited to go 1389 00:47:59.815 --> 00:48:02.109 - speak. I get invited to go speak. He 1390 00:48:02.109 --> 00:48:03.469 - can come with me when I go, and 1391 00:48:03.469 --> 00:48:04.589 - and I can come with you when he 1392 00:48:04.589 --> 00:48:07.230 - goes. We did seminary graduation last week, and 1393 00:48:07.230 --> 00:48:08.909 - I don't have any kids in seminary. But, 1394 00:48:08.909 --> 00:48:11.150 - of course, I went with him because, you 1395 00:48:11.150 --> 00:48:12.449 - know, he was on the program. 1396 00:48:12.750 --> 00:48:15.250 - So it's a sacrifice to go and 1397 00:48:15.635 --> 00:48:17.894 - be involved in all these things that happen 1398 00:48:18.114 --> 00:48:19.655 - in the ward or in the stake, 1399 00:48:20.034 --> 00:48:23.414 - but it's worth it because it really does 1400 00:48:23.795 --> 00:48:26.034 - strengthen your marriage when you do all these 1401 00:48:26.034 --> 00:48:26.775 - things together. 1402 00:48:27.155 --> 00:48:29.130 - Yeah. It's awesome. That's really good. 1403 00:48:29.609 --> 00:48:31.210 - As far as the book side by side, 1404 00:48:31.210 --> 00:48:33.609 - is there, like, any advice on how the 1405 00:48:33.609 --> 00:48:36.250 - book works? Should the the wife read it 1406 00:48:36.250 --> 00:48:37.929 - separately? Is it a couple's book? Is it 1407 00:48:38.009 --> 00:48:39.529 - what make your you know, choose your own 1408 00:48:39.529 --> 00:48:41.609 - adventure? I know it anything more you could 1409 00:48:41.609 --> 00:48:43.210 - tell us just about how the book's structured, 1410 00:48:43.210 --> 00:48:44.715 - how how to use it as a tool. 1411 00:48:45.035 --> 00:48:47.515 - Yeah. So it's structured basically for wives. It's, 1412 00:48:47.515 --> 00:48:49.355 - you know, how to support a spouse in 1413 00:48:49.355 --> 00:48:50.094 - church service. 1414 00:48:50.394 --> 00:48:52.315 - And we talk about how to meet the 1415 00:48:52.315 --> 00:48:53.295 - needs of the congregation. 1416 00:48:53.675 --> 00:48:55.035 - We talk about how to meet your own 1417 00:48:55.035 --> 00:48:57.114 - personal needs as as a spouse, and we 1418 00:48:57.114 --> 00:48:58.949 - talk about how to meet the needs of 1419 00:48:58.949 --> 00:49:00.869 - the servant, of the church member. So there's 1420 00:49:00.869 --> 00:49:02.650 - there's different sections in the book. 1421 00:49:02.949 --> 00:49:04.309 - It is written to wives. And so and, 1422 00:49:04.309 --> 00:49:05.589 - you know, the husband, if he's the one 1423 00:49:05.589 --> 00:49:07.349 - who's got the calling, he's probably too busy 1424 00:49:07.349 --> 00:49:08.170 - to read anyway. 1425 00:49:08.710 --> 00:49:10.789 - So we do recommend that wives read the 1426 00:49:10.789 --> 00:49:12.485 - book. And this is the thing that they 1427 00:49:12.485 --> 00:49:13.684 - can talk about when they're sitting on the 1428 00:49:13.684 --> 00:49:15.204 - lifeguard stand and looking out at the waves, 1429 00:49:15.204 --> 00:49:16.565 - you know, when they're having their when their 1430 00:49:16.565 --> 00:49:18.085 - time together or they can have, you know, 1431 00:49:18.085 --> 00:49:20.005 - their personal study in the morning, their scripture 1432 00:49:20.005 --> 00:49:22.244 - studies, what they do together. She shares, you 1433 00:49:22.244 --> 00:49:24.244 - know, what she's learning from the book. And 1434 00:49:24.244 --> 00:49:25.945 - he's probably gonna be pretty delighted 1435 00:49:27.179 --> 00:49:29.260 - that she's learning, you know, how to be 1436 00:49:29.260 --> 00:49:31.579 - a resource, and she's learning how to lighten 1437 00:49:31.579 --> 00:49:34.139 - his load, and she's learning how to celebrate 1438 00:49:34.139 --> 00:49:35.039 - what he celebrates. 1439 00:49:35.420 --> 00:49:37.900 - That's what the book will help with. That's 1440 00:49:37.900 --> 00:49:40.985 - awesome. Really cool. Any other principle you wanna 1441 00:49:40.985 --> 00:49:42.985 - make sure that we include before we wrap 1442 00:49:42.985 --> 00:49:44.744 - up, or how do we do? No. I 1443 00:49:44.744 --> 00:49:46.505 - think that we did a really good job. 1444 00:49:46.505 --> 00:49:47.805 - I just don't want people 1445 00:49:48.184 --> 00:49:50.425 - to run away and think that, oh, you 1446 00:49:50.425 --> 00:49:52.744 - know, we changed the rules of the church 1447 00:49:52.744 --> 00:49:54.449 - by saying, oh, that the bishop doesn't have 1448 00:49:54.609 --> 00:49:56.050 - this confidential. I'm not trying to change any 1449 00:49:56.050 --> 00:49:56.949 - rules of the church. 1450 00:49:57.329 --> 00:50:00.369 - I really I'm hoping that the wife will 1451 00:50:00.369 --> 00:50:02.289 - see she'll have pure motives. She'll see herself 1452 00:50:02.289 --> 00:50:03.109 - as a resource. 1453 00:50:03.489 --> 00:50:05.269 - She'll see herself as lightning 1454 00:50:05.809 --> 00:50:06.469 - the husband's 1455 00:50:06.849 --> 00:50:07.349 - load, 1456 00:50:07.664 --> 00:50:09.505 - and she'll see that this is the way 1457 00:50:09.505 --> 00:50:11.025 - to strengthen their marriage. So I think when 1458 00:50:11.025 --> 00:50:12.625 - you keep your motives pure and you recognize 1459 00:50:12.625 --> 00:50:15.425 - this is why we're serving together, we're serving 1460 00:50:15.425 --> 00:50:16.485 - as as a couple, 1461 00:50:16.785 --> 00:50:18.945 - is because it's good for the ward or 1462 00:50:18.945 --> 00:50:20.625 - the stake or the mission or who whomever 1463 00:50:20.625 --> 00:50:22.380 - it is you're serving. It's good for them 1464 00:50:22.460 --> 00:50:24.460 - to see a couple that's united. And the 1465 00:50:24.460 --> 00:50:26.539 - leader is gonna be a lot stronger because 1466 00:50:26.539 --> 00:50:28.299 - he has that support of a spouse. He 1467 00:50:28.299 --> 00:50:30.219 - doesn't have anybody at home that's, like, dragging 1468 00:50:30.219 --> 00:50:31.819 - him down because she wishes he wouldn't, you 1469 00:50:31.819 --> 00:50:33.819 - know, be out serving. He's got someone that's 1470 00:50:33.819 --> 00:50:35.704 - right there right there by his side cheering 1471 00:50:35.704 --> 00:50:37.724 - him on and and glad that he's serving. 1472 00:50:37.785 --> 00:50:39.485 - Grateful that he has this calling. 1473 00:50:39.785 --> 00:50:41.785 - Yeah. And if people do wanna check out 1474 00:50:41.785 --> 00:50:43.545 - your book, yeah, I know I got the 1475 00:50:43.545 --> 00:50:45.864 - Kindle version. Any other place they can find 1476 00:50:45.864 --> 00:50:47.704 - it? Well, I understand that it can be 1477 00:50:47.704 --> 00:50:49.510 - found on lots of lots of places online, 1478 00:50:49.510 --> 00:50:50.569 - like Amazon 1479 00:50:50.869 --> 00:50:51.609 - has different, 1480 00:50:52.069 --> 00:50:54.309 - people that sell it, thrift books. It's been 1481 00:50:54.309 --> 00:50:56.150 - out for a while. And so it's, you 1482 00:50:56.150 --> 00:50:57.909 - know, I think I published it in 2002, 1483 00:50:57.909 --> 00:50:59.269 - so it's been out for a while. But 1484 00:50:59.269 --> 00:51:00.549 - there are still places where you can get 1485 00:51:00.549 --> 00:51:02.005 - a hard copy, or you can go to 1486 00:51:02.005 --> 00:51:04.485 - Deseret Book because Deseret Book published it, and 1487 00:51:04.485 --> 00:51:06.485 - so they have it on their website as 1488 00:51:06.485 --> 00:51:08.885 - a Kindle or ebook. Either way. I see. 1489 00:51:08.885 --> 00:51:11.764 - Yeah. Well, Janette, this has been really helpful 1490 00:51:11.764 --> 00:51:12.505 - and encouraging. 1491 00:51:13.045 --> 00:51:13.545 - And, 1492 00:51:13.925 --> 00:51:15.849 - you know, I just, my heart breaks when 1493 00:51:15.849 --> 00:51:18.010 - I hear some of these relationships sort of 1494 00:51:18.010 --> 00:51:20.329 - behind the scenes that are crumbling and they're 1495 00:51:20.329 --> 00:51:22.730 - suffering from the calling is becoming more of 1496 00:51:22.730 --> 00:51:23.550 - an an endurance, 1497 00:51:24.010 --> 00:51:26.250 - battle than than a blessing. And, you know, 1498 00:51:26.250 --> 00:51:28.570 - it really shouldn't shouldn't be that way. There 1499 00:51:28.570 --> 00:51:31.005 - are all those seasons. So what final encouragement 1500 00:51:31.065 --> 00:51:32.985 - would you give to bishop's wives out there 1501 00:51:32.985 --> 00:51:34.905 - who are listening in? Well, you know, I 1502 00:51:34.905 --> 00:51:36.684 - became a marriage therapist because 1503 00:51:37.065 --> 00:51:39.465 - I believe in strengthening marriage. And, you know, 1504 00:51:39.465 --> 00:51:40.985 - when the marriage is strong, the family is 1505 00:51:40.985 --> 00:51:43.690 - strong. And so I really feel like if 1506 00:51:43.690 --> 00:51:45.530 - the wife can remember that my marriage is 1507 00:51:45.530 --> 00:51:47.530 - a priority, the husband can remember my marriage 1508 00:51:47.530 --> 00:51:50.090 - is a priority. Whatever the calling is, you're 1509 00:51:50.090 --> 00:51:51.769 - gonna be a couple forever. You're gonna be 1510 00:51:51.769 --> 00:51:53.690 - a couple after this life. And part of 1511 00:51:53.690 --> 00:51:55.690 - what we're doing here is we're learning how 1512 00:51:55.690 --> 00:51:58.135 - to serve together as couples because we're gonna 1513 00:51:58.135 --> 00:52:00.135 - serve together after this life. So I think 1514 00:52:00.135 --> 00:52:01.894 - if we remember if the if both high 1515 00:52:01.974 --> 00:52:04.454 - husbands and wives remember that the marriage deserves 1516 00:52:04.454 --> 00:52:05.114 - the attention 1517 00:52:05.494 --> 00:52:07.414 - and the marriage is the priority, and then 1518 00:52:07.414 --> 00:52:09.819 - it actually makes the calling easier. And the 1519 00:52:09.819 --> 00:52:12.059 - calling probably gets more attention because you've got 1520 00:52:12.059 --> 00:52:13.760 - two people that are on the same page 1521 00:52:13.900 --> 00:52:15.519 - that are trying to bless the Lord. 1522 00:52:19.819 --> 00:52:22.460 - That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints 1523 00:52:22.460 --> 00:52:24.380 - podcast. Hey. Listen. Would you do me a 1524 00:52:24.380 --> 00:52:26.675 - favor? You know, everybody's got that friend who 1525 00:52:26.675 --> 00:52:28.215 - listens to a ton of podcasts, 1526 00:52:28.594 --> 00:52:30.755 - and maybe they aren't aware of Leading Saints. 1527 00:52:30.755 --> 00:52:32.755 - So would you mind taking the link of 1528 00:52:32.755 --> 00:52:35.235 - this episode or another episode of Leading Saints 1529 00:52:35.235 --> 00:52:37.394 - and just texting it to that friend? You 1530 00:52:37.394 --> 00:52:39.219 - know who I'm talking about, the friend who 1531 00:52:39.219 --> 00:52:41.700 - always listens to podcasts and is always telling 1532 00:52:41.700 --> 00:52:43.700 - you about different podcasts. Well, it's your turn 1533 00:52:43.700 --> 00:52:46.500 - to tell that friend about Leading Saints. So 1534 00:52:46.500 --> 00:52:48.180 - share it. We'd also love to hear from 1535 00:52:48.180 --> 00:52:50.180 - you. If you have any perspective or thought 1536 00:52:50.180 --> 00:52:52.514 - on this episode, you can go to leadingsaints.org 1537 00:52:52.514 --> 00:52:55.234 - and actually leave a comment on the, episode 1538 00:52:55.234 --> 00:52:57.394 - page or reach out to us at leading 1539 00:52:57.394 --> 00:52:58.934 - saints dot org slash contact. 1540 00:53:08.289 --> 00:53:10.849 - It came as a result of the position 1541 00:53:10.849 --> 00:53:13.910 - of leadership which was imposed upon us 1542 00:53:14.289 --> 00:53:16.390 - by the God of heaven who brought 1543 00:53:16.695 --> 00:53:20.075 - forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus 1544 00:53:20.135 --> 00:53:20.635 - Christ. 1545 00:53:21.255 --> 00:53:24.614 - And when the declaration was made concerning the 1546 00:53:24.614 --> 00:53:27.414 - own and only true and living Church upon 1547 00:53:27.414 --> 00:53:28.800 - the face of the earth, 1548 00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:32.019 - We were immediately put in a position of 1549 00:53:32.160 --> 00:53:32.660 - loneliness, 1550 00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:34.579 - the loneliness of leadership 1551 00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:38.260 - from which we cannot shrink nor run away, 1552 00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:41.440 - and to which we must face up with 1553 00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:42.980 - boldness and courage 1554 00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:44.260 - and ability.