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Hey, everyone. You probably don't know this, but,

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Leading Saints is not just a podcast. I

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know in the past, we've been known as

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a podcast, but now Leading Saints is an

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online platform, an online community

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that we call a Zion Lab because we

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are focused on not just preparing leaders to

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be better prepared to lead, but we want

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to help everybody regardless of their church calling

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to build Zion. And Zion Lab is the

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place to it's the laboratory of Zion, if

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you will, to step into, share your ideas,

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best practices, what are you doing in a

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specific calling, what are you doing outside of

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a calling, where do you feel inspired, what

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are other people doing, and it is becoming

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such a dynamic phenomenal community. And there's an

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AI bot in there that you can ask

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questions to, and it will scour the archives

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of the leading saints. What has it been?

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Since 2010, we've been creating content. It will

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scour those archives and give you a specific

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answer to the content that you're looking for.

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So come join us over at Zion Lab

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which you can find at leadingsaints.org/zion.

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So before we launch into this podcast episode,

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maybe you are brand new to Leading Saints

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and you're wondering, okay, what is this? Why

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is there this platform talking about all things

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church leadership? Yeah. That's what we do at

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Leading Saints. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated

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to helping Latter day Saints be better prepared

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to lead and that may be in a

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formal leadership role or it may just be

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as a Zion builder. How can I just

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contribute more? How can I influence

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the culture of my ward or my community

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in a positive way even though I don't

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have a formal role? Or maybe there are

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those in a more formal role and they

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just want to understand how they can best

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execute their

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responsibilities

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in a way that will benefit the ward

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and keep people coming back and just bless

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the lives in general. So that's what we

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do at Leading Saints. We're the go to

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platform where we explore all these things, sharing

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best practices, ideas, thoughts, what you've tried, what's

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worked, what hasn't worked. So we welcome you

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to leading saints. Go to leadingsaints.org/zion

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to get started, ask questions, explore answers, and

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I think your life and leadership will be

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blessed because of it.

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Everyone. I'm Curt Franck. I'm with leading saints

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and I'm excited

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once again to invite Dustin Peterson into the

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podcast.

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Dustin has become such a good friend and

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I've learned so much from him. Many of

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his episodes have been easily in the top

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10 and most downloaded

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over time. And his insight perspective

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is just so inspiring. And so I'm excited

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to bring another episode of Dustin to the

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podcast feed here. Dustin is actually a stake

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president in the Houston, Texas area. And in

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his day job, he does a lot of

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leadership work. So he's just like the perfect

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fit for the leading saints platform. And he

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recently released another book called meant for more

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waking up to the life you were sent

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to live. And it's a book all for

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the ladder to Saint audience, all about purpose

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and finding purpose in your life. Obviously

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we are big believers in purpose. We were

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sent here for a purpose. We should have

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purpose and our life should be propelled forward

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in purpose, but sometimes that's easier said than

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done, or maybe just we end up stating

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a bunch of platitudes that are kinda empty

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and we don't know what to do with.

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And then in a leadership context, how do

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we infuse our culture

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with purpose so that people are activated in

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a very positive way to participate

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and pursue a higher purpose in reward rather

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than just going through the motions. So we

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talk about all all these types of things,

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and this is one, a book you should

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definitely pick up and read, published by Cedar

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Fort. You can get it from Amazon and

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you'll definitely benefit from the words in the

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book and hopefully the words in this interview.

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So let's jump into it. Here's my interview

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with Dustin Peterson,

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the author of Meant for More.

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Alright, Dustin. Welcome back to the Leading Saints

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podcast. We've had you on a a few

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times now, and it's always good to have

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you back. I haven't broken the podcast yet,

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so appreciate you having me back.

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Her time's a charm. We shall see. So

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That's right. So you recently wrote another book

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meant for purpose. I know you write one

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book and you can't help but write another.

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Is that how it goes? Meant for more.

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Yeah. This is,

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You know, I wrote I wrote, my first

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book and swore I'd never do that again.

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It's a really painful, vulnerable process. And and

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then god put a different topic on my

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heart, and so I did it again and

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and then again. And this is the fourth

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time. And and then after each time, I

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think, man, I'm never writing another book. It's

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really painful and vulnerable, but here we are

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again. So, yes, published,

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January year, Meant for More, Waking Up to

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the Life You Were Sent to Live, which

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is really a book about identifying purpose, and

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it's written through a gospel lens. So it's,

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full of scripture and quotes and anyway, meant

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to to help specifically members of the church.

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Now I if I remember, is it wasn't

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necessarily an epiphany you had with this topic,

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but just sort of kept coming up in

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your life, or how would you describe it?

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Yeah.

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So it really

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surfaced for me about probably a decade ago,

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and, and maybe I'll tell just a quick

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story there.

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So in my profession, I'm a leadership trainer

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and leadership consultant and, do workshops and retreats

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and that type of thing. And I'd had

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the medical center downtown. I live here in

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Houston, Texas, and so the medical center

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contacted me and said, Hey, we'd like you

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to come and do a training for two

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fifty first year medical students.

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And, of course, I said yes, because I'm

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an entrepreneur, so you just do it, and

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you leap first and then look. And then

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I got kind of freaked out, and I

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thought, boy, what will I have to say

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to these medical students? Like, what value do

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I have to bring? I know nothing about

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medicine except that I've, like, used it before.

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And so I wasn't really sure where to

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go. So I had a buddy named Keith,

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and he was living just down the Street.

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He was in my ward and a member

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of the church, and he's a he was

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a resident down in the medical center at

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the time. And Keith and I were talking

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one day, and I said, hey, Keith. I've

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gotta go speak to 250 medical students about

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something leadership y. What should I teach? What

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should I talk about? And he thought about

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it for a moment and said, you know,

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if there's anything you could teach these medical

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students that would make the biggest difference in

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their life, and I was waiting on the

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precipice, couldn't wait to hear what he'd come

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up with. He said I would teach them

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their purpose.

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Wow. And that surprised me. I thought he

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might go with time management or balance or

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something else.

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But he said teach them their purpose. And

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he talked about that circle from Simon Sinek

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that a lot of us have seen that

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has the why in the middle and the

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how and then the what. And he said,

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teach them their why.

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And I said, really? Tell me about that.

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Why is that so important?

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And he told me a story. He said,

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you know, when he was,

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going through medical school, you know, he was

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obviously spending a lot of time in class

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and at the hospital and he had a

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daughter, at the time who was very young.

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Her name was Evie, and I wrote about

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her in the book and and Keith. And,

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little Evie was super cute, super sweet, curious

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little girl. She would come wandering down the

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street and come knock on our front door

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from time to time without her parents knowing.

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We'd just get a little knock on the

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door, and and my wife would open the

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door, and it'd be like the little five

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year old girl standing

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there and, say, I want mommy Sammy. My

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wife's name is Sammy, and we're always like,

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Evie, where are your parents? Do they know

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you're here? And she just was a very

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curious little girl. And, one day, she's so

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curious one day that she woke up one

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morning and she looked over

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in her bedroom and she saw this

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glowing

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orb there, this nightlight. And so she walked

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over to this nightlight and she pulled it

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out of the wall and she began to

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deconstruct it. And in the middle of that

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deconstruction, she found this little,

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silver disk.

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And any guess what she did with it,

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Kurt? Mm-mm.

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I hope she didn't put it in her

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mouth, but I'm guessing that's where it's going.

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You must be a dad or Yeah. Like,

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where we're going. Known kids before because that's

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exactly what she did. She put it in

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her mouth and she swallowed it. Oof.

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And she immediately began to, of course, struggle

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and, scream and cry. And Keith, who, by

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the way, was an anesthesiologist

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and and medically trained,

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ran up to find her in pain, and

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he saw the deconstructed

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nightlight, and he immediately scooped her up, and

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he said he felt really helpless in that

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moment. Despite all his medical training, he felt

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really helpless. And so he took her into

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the medical center to have her treated, and

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they went in and they did an x-ray,

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and sure enough, they found that it had

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lodged

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itself in the esophagus there and was beginning

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to leak, that battery acid. And they were

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able to perform a procedure and extract it,

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and, she was fine. She recovered

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fine. And I asked Keith, I said, So

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tell me about that story, like, how did

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that inform your purpose?

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He said, you know, it was interesting, Dustin,

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in that moment, despite all my medical training,

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I felt really helpless

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and hopeless.

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And I needed I needed somebody to look

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out for my family.

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And now, as a resident, when I see

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people come into the hospital,

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maybe, you know, handcuffed to the bed with

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police escort or whatever and and people start

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whispering and saying, oh, I wonder what they

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did. I wonder what they did. The only

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thing that comes to mind for me is

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that's someone's

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Evie.

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That's someone's daughter.

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That's someone's son. He said it changed my

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entire approach to medicine. Now I exist to

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treat people like their family. I don't care

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what they've done. I treat them like their

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family. And that has pulled me through some

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really tough times in medical school. So Dustin,

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if you can teach them nothing else, teach

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them their purpose.

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That's, Kurt, what brought me to this concept.

264
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That's what brought me to starting to research

265
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and study and think about the power of

266
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purpose.

267
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You know, so

268
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often the word motivation gets tossed around in

269
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leadership circles, especially leading saints where you get,

270
00:09:37,315 --> 00:09:38,995
you know, lay leaders. Maybe they don't have

271
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much experience leading a group of people or

272
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managing group of people, and they soon realize

273
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that motivation is really tricky, you know, and

274
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they just like, what's the five step plan?

275
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You know, what do I gotta do? You

276
00:09:49,429 --> 00:09:51,350
know, what I've gotta threaten? You know, what

277
00:09:51,350 --> 00:09:52,950
lever do I have to pull in order

278
00:09:52,950 --> 00:09:54,870
to to get them to to move and

279
00:09:54,870 --> 00:09:56,149
do what I need to do because I

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00:09:56,149 --> 00:09:57,750
got numbers to report or, you know, this

281
00:09:57,750 --> 00:09:58,845
is gonna look bad on me.

282
00:09:59,804 --> 00:10:01,884
And oftentimes, I'm like, well, it's a little

283
00:10:01,884 --> 00:10:04,125
more complicated than that. Is there something to

284
00:10:04,125 --> 00:10:06,284
purpose with motivation, or what are your thoughts

285
00:10:06,284 --> 00:10:06,944
on motivation?

286
00:10:07,245 --> 00:10:09,324
Yeah. You're exactly right. In fact, this was

287
00:10:09,324 --> 00:10:11,084
one of the great discoveries as I started

288
00:10:11,084 --> 00:10:13,164
to research this concept and then bring it

289
00:10:13,164 --> 00:10:14,625
into a gospel lens

290
00:10:14,980 --> 00:10:18,419
is that purpose is an incredibly powerful source

291
00:10:18,419 --> 00:10:19,240
of motivation.

292
00:10:20,419 --> 00:10:22,679
Purpose will help the underqualified,

293
00:10:23,539 --> 00:10:24,039
overwhelmed,

294
00:10:24,340 --> 00:10:27,379
burned out church leader to feel that sense

295
00:10:27,379 --> 00:10:29,960
of inspiration or motivation or drive.

296
00:10:30,495 --> 00:10:32,495
Purpose is linked with all kinds of great

297
00:10:32,495 --> 00:10:35,075
outcomes. People that have a sense of purpose,

298
00:10:35,455 --> 00:10:38,335
they have better self control, they get a

299
00:10:38,335 --> 00:10:39,394
better night's sleep,

300
00:10:39,774 --> 00:10:41,934
they experience more satisfaction in their life and

301
00:10:41,934 --> 00:10:44,610
their relationships, and and I believe in the

302
00:10:44,610 --> 00:10:47,909
gospel sense, purpose is really a great source

303
00:10:48,129 --> 00:10:48,789
for motivation.

304
00:10:49,409 --> 00:10:51,329
In fact, Kurt, there was a video that

305
00:10:51,329 --> 00:10:51,829
you

306
00:10:52,209 --> 00:10:53,649
chimed in on a couple of weeks ago

307
00:10:53,649 --> 00:10:54,850
that has really kind of been on my

308
00:10:54,850 --> 00:10:56,690
mind from a guy named Ryan Sanford. You

309
00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:58,149
know the video I'm referring to?

310
00:10:59,215 --> 00:11:00,675
Ryan talked about ministering.

311
00:11:01,134 --> 00:11:03,215
Oh, yes. And he said, yeah. There was

312
00:11:03,215 --> 00:11:05,134
this great video where you were reacting, like,

313
00:11:05,134 --> 00:11:07,615
watching the video and reacting real time. And

314
00:11:07,615 --> 00:11:09,535
Ryan, actually used to serve here in the

315
00:11:09,535 --> 00:11:11,799
Texas Houston South Mission. So shout out to

316
00:11:11,799 --> 00:11:13,799
Ryan out there. Yeah. Love him. And he

317
00:11:13,799 --> 00:11:16,440
produces some really great content, gospel oriented content

318
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,519
now. And he posted this video, and he

319
00:11:18,519 --> 00:11:19,019
said,

320
00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,419
why don't people minister?

321
00:11:21,879 --> 00:11:24,200
He said, I've only maybe ever met one

322
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,714
person that fulfills their ministering assignment since I

323
00:11:26,714 --> 00:11:28,794
was converted to this church. Why don't people

324
00:11:28,794 --> 00:11:29,294
minister?

325
00:11:29,754 --> 00:11:31,595
And you posted a really great reaction to

326
00:11:31,595 --> 00:11:33,754
it. And you said, you know, maybe people

327
00:11:33,754 --> 00:11:36,315
don't know how. Like, maybe they don't maybe

328
00:11:36,315 --> 00:11:37,514
they don't know how to do it, like,

329
00:11:37,514 --> 00:11:39,514
what it should look like or how to,

330
00:11:40,340 --> 00:11:42,500
you know, make it effective or maybe there's

331
00:11:42,500 --> 00:11:44,919
a knowledge gap or a skill gap. And

332
00:11:45,059 --> 00:11:46,500
and I think that's true. I watched that

333
00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:48,820
video and it really resonated with me. And

334
00:11:48,820 --> 00:11:50,279
then as I was walking in the mailbox

335
00:11:50,340 --> 00:11:52,100
right after I watched the video, I had

336
00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:53,379
said this thought come to mind. I I

337
00:11:53,379 --> 00:11:55,379
thought, you know, why don't people minister? You

338
00:11:55,379 --> 00:11:57,085
know, I'm a a leader here in our

339
00:11:57,085 --> 00:11:59,585
stake and I oftentimes think about ministering and

340
00:11:59,644 --> 00:12:01,644
and it's been really tough, just to kind

341
00:12:01,644 --> 00:12:03,485
of motivate, inspire that. And I had this

342
00:12:03,485 --> 00:12:06,125
thought zing into my mind, maybe they don't

343
00:12:06,125 --> 00:12:08,524
know the why. It's not just about the

344
00:12:08,524 --> 00:12:10,764
how, it's about the why. And there was

345
00:12:10,764 --> 00:12:13,000
this guy, I oftentimes quote this study in

346
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,899
my leadership work, this guy named Ferdinand Fournier,

347
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:17,879
which is one of the just greatest names

348
00:12:17,879 --> 00:12:20,139
of all time, went out and researched

349
00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:22,200
and interviewed 25,000

350
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:23,879
people to try to find out when you

351
00:12:23,879 --> 00:12:25,740
don't do what you're supposed to do,

352
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:27,774
why don't you do it? And then he

353
00:12:27,774 --> 00:12:29,134
went and wrote a book called Why Don't

354
00:12:29,134 --> 00:12:30,754
People Do What They're Supposed to Do?

355
00:12:31,615 --> 00:12:33,534
And he writes this book and he sorts

356
00:12:33,534 --> 00:12:36,095
her, he prioritizes the reasons people don't do

357
00:12:36,095 --> 00:12:37,315
what they're supposed to do.

358
00:12:37,695 --> 00:12:39,695
Top three reasons he comes up with why

359
00:12:39,695 --> 00:12:41,920
people don't do what you expect or what

360
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,920
they're supposed to do. Top three reasons, they

361
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,820
don't know why, they don't know how,

362
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,200
they don't know what. And those are all

363
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,700
the responsibility of the leader, not the individual.

364
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,759
It's our job as leaders in the church

365
00:12:53,759 --> 00:12:56,215
to help people understand the why, the how,

366
00:12:56,215 --> 00:12:57,414
and the what. I think we're really good

367
00:12:57,414 --> 00:12:59,575
at hammering the what. Every agenda is full

368
00:12:59,575 --> 00:13:02,294
of what. We sometimes teach skill development and,

369
00:13:02,294 --> 00:13:04,534
you know, conferences or trainings, but we almost

370
00:13:04,534 --> 00:13:07,414
never help people understand the why. And that's

371
00:13:07,414 --> 00:13:09,674
where I think there's some real power. Yeah.

372
00:13:10,129 --> 00:13:13,009
And is there, like, maybe it's tricky at

373
00:13:13,009 --> 00:13:15,490
times where we wanna sort of, project our

374
00:13:15,490 --> 00:13:17,730
purpose onto others of, like, oh, I can

375
00:13:17,730 --> 00:13:19,570
tell you why you should minister. You know,

376
00:13:19,570 --> 00:13:20,070
like,

377
00:13:20,450 --> 00:13:22,690
people need you. Well, why? Well, because they

378
00:13:22,690 --> 00:13:24,904
do, and everybody struggles with something, so you

379
00:13:24,904 --> 00:13:26,904
should be there. Well, yeah. But why? You

380
00:13:26,904 --> 00:13:28,684
know? And so Yeah. Sometimes

381
00:13:29,144 --> 00:13:31,705
leaders have this motive of, well, I've been

382
00:13:31,705 --> 00:13:33,144
asked to do this, and, you know, I

383
00:13:33,225 --> 00:13:35,225
it's almost the ego can kinda drive that

384
00:13:35,225 --> 00:13:37,779
at times. And then we grab for a

385
00:13:37,779 --> 00:13:39,960
tool of purpose, like, well, here's some purpose.

386
00:13:40,019 --> 00:13:42,259
Now now go and do. Right? When in

387
00:13:42,259 --> 00:13:42,759
reality,

388
00:13:43,299 --> 00:13:45,940
purpose is much more of an organic experience,

389
00:13:45,940 --> 00:13:48,580
would you say? It's very personal. Yeah. And

390
00:13:48,580 --> 00:13:50,600
it's going to be unique to each individual.

391
00:13:51,075 --> 00:13:52,754
And the other thing I find on that

392
00:13:52,754 --> 00:13:54,995
point, Kurt, is that we often don't go

393
00:13:54,995 --> 00:13:57,315
deep enough. So when I'm trying to help

394
00:13:57,315 --> 00:13:59,575
leaders in my profession understand purpose,

395
00:14:00,115 --> 00:14:02,035
I teach them this concept that you've really

396
00:14:02,035 --> 00:14:03,735
got to ask the question why

397
00:14:04,289 --> 00:14:06,289
five to seven times. Like, you've got to

398
00:14:06,289 --> 00:14:07,750
ask it until it annoys

399
00:14:08,289 --> 00:14:10,129
you. And until you get to that level

400
00:14:10,129 --> 00:14:12,610
of depth, you probably haven't found the true

401
00:14:12,610 --> 00:14:14,529
why. I teach leaders that they need to

402
00:14:14,529 --> 00:14:16,289
be dramatic about it. Like, we need to

403
00:14:16,289 --> 00:14:19,875
really help people understand that that one visit

404
00:14:19,934 --> 00:14:22,754
to that person's home or one phone call

405
00:14:23,054 --> 00:14:25,454
can have a tremendous impact on their entire

406
00:14:25,454 --> 00:14:27,214
life trajectory. Like, we need to help them

407
00:14:27,214 --> 00:14:27,714
understand

408
00:14:28,095 --> 00:14:29,454
a bigger why. And I think a lot

409
00:14:29,454 --> 00:14:31,315
of us, when we're trying to pitch assignments

410
00:14:32,039 --> 00:14:33,500
or motivate or inspire

411
00:14:34,039 --> 00:14:34,539
congregations,

412
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:36,459
the why is too small.

413
00:14:36,839 --> 00:14:38,220
Like, why should we do our ministering?

414
00:14:38,759 --> 00:14:41,159
Because it helps people. Yeah. But why do

415
00:14:41,159 --> 00:14:42,440
we need to do that? There's lots of

416
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,839
ways to help people. Well, because the brother

417
00:14:44,839 --> 00:14:46,545
have asked this and said that this is

418
00:14:46,545 --> 00:14:48,225
a key indicator. Yeah. But why does that

419
00:14:48,225 --> 00:14:51,425
matter? Because key indicators point to conversion. Yeah.

420
00:14:51,425 --> 00:14:52,945
But why does that matter? And if you

421
00:14:52,945 --> 00:14:55,184
just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper

422
00:14:55,184 --> 00:14:57,125
till it annoys you, you'll finally say,

423
00:14:57,425 --> 00:14:59,960
why are we really doing this thing? And

424
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:01,799
until you understand it, it's hard to tell

425
00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:03,639
other people about it. And so I think

426
00:15:03,639 --> 00:15:05,320
one of the big gaps is we, as

427
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,399
leaders, don't stop long enough to take time

428
00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:09,879
to say, why are we doing this? Like,

429
00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:11,799
why do we do this thing? It's become

430
00:15:11,799 --> 00:15:13,960
tradition or culture, but why do we really

431
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,134
do it? Yeah. I'm reminded of, you know,

432
00:15:17,134 --> 00:15:19,855
president Oaks told the story recently. I think

433
00:15:19,855 --> 00:15:21,934
it was at president Nelson's funeral or something

434
00:15:21,934 --> 00:15:24,095
where he talked about that, you know, the

435
00:15:24,095 --> 00:15:26,254
beginning of that first presidency with president Nelson

436
00:15:26,254 --> 00:15:28,574
where you're deciding on how to determine who

437
00:15:28,574 --> 00:15:31,190
writes the article in the Liahona

438
00:15:31,570 --> 00:15:34,450
for ministering, and president Nelson just said, well,

439
00:15:34,450 --> 00:15:35,970
why why do we even do that? Right?

440
00:15:35,970 --> 00:15:37,970
And sure enough, you know, they stopped doing

441
00:15:37,970 --> 00:15:40,210
that because they're kinda pushing on on that

442
00:15:40,210 --> 00:15:42,129
why. And I think just a lot comes

443
00:15:42,129 --> 00:15:44,924
from not not only you know, obviously, at

444
00:15:44,924 --> 00:15:46,764
the root of it, you're discovering the purpose,

445
00:15:46,764 --> 00:15:49,565
but, you know, efficiency kinda blooms out of

446
00:15:49,565 --> 00:15:51,804
that as well. Right? And just so many

447
00:15:51,804 --> 00:15:53,804
things come from as you're pushing on the

448
00:15:53,804 --> 00:15:55,879
the purpose of things. It does. Yeah.

449
00:15:56,420 --> 00:15:59,960
I was, struck by elder Shumway, general conference,

450
00:16:00,420 --> 00:16:02,040
last year, 2025.

451
00:16:02,180 --> 00:16:03,779
He gave a talk where he said that

452
00:16:03,779 --> 00:16:06,500
we perhaps need to be less concerned with

453
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:07,720
a culture of performance

454
00:16:08,534 --> 00:16:10,634
and more with a doctrine of progression.

455
00:16:11,414 --> 00:16:14,054
And that really kinda caught fire for me

456
00:16:14,054 --> 00:16:16,695
in my in my meetings with bishops and,

457
00:16:17,014 --> 00:16:19,334
training with leaders. I started to really push

458
00:16:19,334 --> 00:16:20,714
on this concept of,

459
00:16:21,039 --> 00:16:23,600
look, I don't think the Lord is super

460
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,240
worried about our results. I don't think he's

461
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,980
concerned about numbers or data or,

462
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:30,580
you know, dashboards.

463
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,059
I think he cares about progression

464
00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:34,660
and the individual.

465
00:16:35,039 --> 00:16:37,475
And Elder Shumway said something to that effect.

466
00:16:37,475 --> 00:16:40,355
He said if Christ were personally here, he

467
00:16:40,355 --> 00:16:42,035
would visit the sick, he would teach the

468
00:16:42,035 --> 00:16:44,195
Sunday school class, he would sit with a

469
00:16:44,195 --> 00:16:46,434
heartbroken young woman. And so I was sitting

470
00:16:46,434 --> 00:16:47,254
with a bishop

471
00:16:47,555 --> 00:16:48,695
who was really struggling

472
00:16:49,070 --> 00:16:50,909
to motivate his members and just couldn't I

473
00:16:50,909 --> 00:16:52,589
mean, he was just like, why won't they

474
00:16:52,589 --> 00:16:54,909
do what they're supposed to do? And I

475
00:16:54,909 --> 00:16:57,149
said, well, what if we just assume that

476
00:16:57,149 --> 00:17:00,110
everybody's doing their level best? Everyone is doing

477
00:17:00,110 --> 00:17:01,970
the very best they know how to do.

478
00:17:02,165 --> 00:17:03,764
And what if we just let go of

479
00:17:03,764 --> 00:17:06,884
this culture of performance and instead say, you

480
00:17:06,884 --> 00:17:08,484
know, what is the most important thing I

481
00:17:08,484 --> 00:17:10,884
could be doing to help people really connect

482
00:17:10,884 --> 00:17:13,125
to God or Christ and understand their purpose?

483
00:17:13,125 --> 00:17:15,059
And I just think there's something to that.

484
00:17:15,059 --> 00:17:16,900
I think it helps us to get results

485
00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:19,860
that matter versus just getting results for the

486
00:17:19,860 --> 00:17:20,680
sake of results.

487
00:17:20,980 --> 00:17:23,220
Yeah. Is there anything else you would mention

488
00:17:23,220 --> 00:17:24,279
as far as

489
00:17:24,740 --> 00:17:26,759
the role of the church experience

490
00:17:27,059 --> 00:17:27,559
or

491
00:17:28,015 --> 00:17:30,255
to help reveal purpose. I kinda just feel

492
00:17:30,255 --> 00:17:31,234
like we're so

493
00:17:31,615 --> 00:17:34,835
doctrinal minded, which is great, or program minded

494
00:17:34,894 --> 00:17:37,134
or, you know, focusing on the agenda of

495
00:17:37,134 --> 00:17:38,494
what you know, this is the part where

496
00:17:38,494 --> 00:17:40,894
somebody teaches a lesson or facilitates a discussion

497
00:17:40,894 --> 00:17:42,434
about the Old Testament or whatever,

498
00:17:42,799 --> 00:17:44,799
that we we kinda miss this or we

499
00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:46,880
kinda feel like the purpose is projected on

500
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:48,160
us. Well, that, you know, the purpose is

501
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,759
to have an eternal family. So go to

502
00:17:49,759 --> 00:17:51,359
the temple more. We're like, yeah. But I

503
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,519
feel like there's this deeper purpose in me

504
00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:56,640
that's trying to manifest itself. Right? And that's

505
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,125
I'm so intrigued lately about the fifth covenant

506
00:17:59,125 --> 00:18:01,045
in the temple of dedicating all your time,

507
00:18:01,045 --> 00:18:02,964
talents, and everything that the lord has blessed

508
00:18:02,964 --> 00:18:04,805
you with for the building up of his

509
00:18:04,805 --> 00:18:07,365
church. Right? And I think, generally speaking, members

510
00:18:07,365 --> 00:18:08,644
don't know what to do with that because

511
00:18:08,644 --> 00:18:10,325
it goes to a place of purpose of,

512
00:18:10,325 --> 00:18:12,140
like, so what do you got? Like, where

513
00:18:12,140 --> 00:18:13,740
are you being called into? How can you

514
00:18:13,740 --> 00:18:15,839
manifest your purpose in building up the church?

515
00:18:15,980 --> 00:18:17,500
So is there anything else you would mention

516
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:19,420
just in the like, what's the role of

517
00:18:19,420 --> 00:18:22,140
the church or our faith experience in revealing

518
00:18:22,140 --> 00:18:22,799
the purpose?

519
00:18:23,179 --> 00:18:25,684
Yeah. Great great point that you're making. This

520
00:18:25,684 --> 00:18:27,365
was the impetus for the book. So I

521
00:18:27,365 --> 00:18:28,825
sat down to write this book.

522
00:18:29,125 --> 00:18:30,964
Honestly, I started writing this thing seven years

523
00:18:30,964 --> 00:18:32,085
ago. It just took a long time to

524
00:18:32,085 --> 00:18:33,924
get it going because it's it's a bit

525
00:18:33,924 --> 00:18:36,005
torturous sometimes to write. Yeah. But when I

526
00:18:36,005 --> 00:18:37,924
started to write it, I began writing it

527
00:18:37,924 --> 00:18:38,424
through

528
00:18:38,869 --> 00:18:40,869
more of a secular lens, like just a

529
00:18:40,869 --> 00:18:42,869
kind of broad based book for a broad

530
00:18:42,869 --> 00:18:43,369
audience.

531
00:18:43,670 --> 00:18:45,509
And very quickly, I realized I wasn't going

532
00:18:45,509 --> 00:18:46,970
to be able to do that because

533
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:51,430
purpose is so gospel oriented. Our religion, our

534
00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:51,930
faith

535
00:18:52,845 --> 00:18:55,825
just, really believes in the power of purpose.

536
00:18:56,365 --> 00:18:58,204
And when you sit in any Sunday school

537
00:18:58,204 --> 00:19:00,285
class, you say, well, what is God's purpose?

538
00:19:00,285 --> 00:19:03,265
And everyone quotes Moses one thirty nine,

539
00:19:03,644 --> 00:19:05,964
bring about the immortality and the eternal life

540
00:19:05,964 --> 00:19:07,750
of man. And then we say, well, what

541
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:09,509
is our purpose? Well, our purpose is to

542
00:19:09,509 --> 00:19:10,490
become like him.

543
00:19:10,789 --> 00:19:13,269
But I tend to believe that we each

544
00:19:13,269 --> 00:19:14,650
have a unique

545
00:19:15,109 --> 00:19:15,609
purpose

546
00:19:16,069 --> 00:19:18,549
that is unique to us and specific to

547
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:19,049
us,

548
00:19:19,355 --> 00:19:20,875
And I don't know that we spend enough

549
00:19:20,875 --> 00:19:23,615
time getting clear about what that unique purpose

550
00:19:23,914 --> 00:19:25,835
is on Earth. And so that's where I

551
00:19:25,835 --> 00:19:27,355
started to write this book is I I

552
00:19:27,355 --> 00:19:30,174
thought, you know, if anybody on this planet

553
00:19:30,394 --> 00:19:33,309
should have clarity about what their individual purpose

554
00:19:33,309 --> 00:19:34,990
is as members of the Church of Jesus

555
00:19:34,990 --> 00:19:37,169
Christ of Latter day Saints. We've got revelation,

556
00:19:37,950 --> 00:19:41,950
the holy ghost, patriarchal blessings, leaders, scriptures. We've

557
00:19:41,950 --> 00:19:43,549
got all these things to help us figure

558
00:19:43,549 --> 00:19:45,470
this out, and yet how many of us

559
00:19:45,470 --> 00:19:48,445
wander around wondering for what am I uniquely

560
00:19:48,585 --> 00:19:50,744
here on Earth? Like, what does God want

561
00:19:50,744 --> 00:19:51,805
me specifically

562
00:19:52,424 --> 00:19:54,265
to do? And I believe everybody's got that

563
00:19:54,265 --> 00:19:56,265
unique purpose. I don't think that there's just

564
00:19:56,265 --> 00:19:57,724
some kind of generalization

565
00:19:58,025 --> 00:19:59,785
there. The question is how do you figure

566
00:19:59,785 --> 00:20:01,829
it out? And so maybe let me just

567
00:20:01,829 --> 00:20:02,890
share a quick primer

568
00:20:03,269 --> 00:20:05,109
that I discovered about how to figure this

569
00:20:05,109 --> 00:20:07,769
out. I think that there are three things

570
00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:09,289
that make up purpose.

571
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:11,190
I think the first thing is that we

572
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:13,289
need to understand that purpose is big

573
00:20:13,664 --> 00:20:16,465
and bold and idealistic. It's not a mission

574
00:20:16,465 --> 00:20:18,644
statement. It's not, verbose.

575
00:20:18,945 --> 00:20:19,684
It's not

576
00:20:19,985 --> 00:20:23,265
something really specific. It's big and idealistic and

577
00:20:23,265 --> 00:20:25,424
bold. And so the bigger and the more

578
00:20:25,424 --> 00:20:27,509
idealistic, the better. It's probably not something you

579
00:20:27,509 --> 00:20:29,509
will accomplish in your entire lifetime, but it's

580
00:20:29,509 --> 00:20:31,610
something that motivates you to work toward it.

581
00:20:31,670 --> 00:20:33,769
The second thing I've discovered is that

582
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:38,230
purpose statements specifically are short. They're short statements.

583
00:20:38,230 --> 00:20:40,009
They're not big, long statements.

584
00:20:40,724 --> 00:20:42,265
Again, think about God's purpose,

585
00:20:42,724 --> 00:20:44,964
immortality and eternal life of man. It's pretty

586
00:20:44,964 --> 00:20:45,464
simple.

587
00:20:45,845 --> 00:20:47,444
I think that we sometimes get caught up

588
00:20:47,444 --> 00:20:48,825
writing purpose narratives,

589
00:20:49,204 --> 00:20:49,704
paragraphs

590
00:20:50,804 --> 00:20:52,660
that don't serve us or anybody else. If

591
00:20:52,660 --> 00:20:54,019
you can't wake up in the morning and

592
00:20:54,019 --> 00:20:55,700
repeat why you're on this earth, then it

593
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:57,240
doesn't hold any power.

594
00:20:57,539 --> 00:20:59,220
But this third concept is the one that

595
00:20:59,220 --> 00:21:01,460
I think was really unique and stood out

596
00:21:01,460 --> 00:21:03,539
to me, and this actually came from leadership

597
00:21:03,539 --> 00:21:05,815
research from a guy named Bill George. He

598
00:21:05,815 --> 00:21:06,795
was studying leadership

599
00:21:07,174 --> 00:21:09,914
and where people discover their leadership potential.

600
00:21:10,535 --> 00:21:13,015
And he found that people discover their leadership

601
00:21:13,015 --> 00:21:13,515
potential

602
00:21:14,134 --> 00:21:15,035
in the crucibles

603
00:21:15,335 --> 00:21:16,234
of their life.

604
00:21:16,535 --> 00:21:18,855
Leadership does not come from the high points.

605
00:21:18,855 --> 00:21:21,009
It comes from the low points. When you

606
00:21:21,009 --> 00:21:23,730
experience a really difficult challenge as a leader,

607
00:21:23,730 --> 00:21:25,809
something that tests you, think about a crucible

608
00:21:25,809 --> 00:21:28,049
in medieval times where you put metal in

609
00:21:28,049 --> 00:21:29,569
it and you heat it up and it

610
00:21:29,569 --> 00:21:32,210
melts with fervent heat. When you experience that

611
00:21:32,210 --> 00:21:34,150
crucible in your life, that's where leadership

612
00:21:34,515 --> 00:21:37,714
comes from. That's where you, you learn what

613
00:21:37,714 --> 00:21:40,035
matters to you. I took that concept and

614
00:21:40,035 --> 00:21:41,555
I started to think about it through a

615
00:21:41,555 --> 00:21:43,795
purpose lens, and I started working with coaching

616
00:21:43,795 --> 00:21:45,795
clients. And what I discovered, Curt, is that

617
00:21:45,795 --> 00:21:47,255
your purpose is the same.

618
00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:49,259
Purpose does not emerge from

619
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:50,140
usually

620
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,680
the high points in our life. It emerges

621
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,859
from the the hard stuff that happens,

622
00:21:55,559 --> 00:21:58,539
the difficulties, the struggles, the trials, and tribulations

623
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,240
where you walk away from that moment and

624
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,804
say, I don't want anybody to have to

625
00:22:03,804 --> 00:22:06,605
go through that like I did. I exist

626
00:22:06,605 --> 00:22:07,904
to blank

627
00:22:08,284 --> 00:22:10,144
to go serve that purpose.

628
00:22:10,444 --> 00:22:11,964
Let me use a real time example, and

629
00:22:11,964 --> 00:22:13,325
I'm gonna put you on the spot, but

630
00:22:13,325 --> 00:22:15,085
you're a damn vulnerable guy, so you'll be

631
00:22:15,085 --> 00:22:17,744
open for it. Yeah. Why Leading Saints?

632
00:22:18,179 --> 00:22:20,500
Why did you create this thing? Like, when

633
00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:22,500
you think of the moment or maybe a

634
00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:24,200
couple of the moments in your life

635
00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:26,659
that drove you to say, you know what?

636
00:22:26,659 --> 00:22:28,659
I gotta fill this gap. I gotta help

637
00:22:28,659 --> 00:22:31,139
leaders because there's not enough out there to

638
00:22:31,139 --> 00:22:33,139
help direct leaders. Like, why did you do

639
00:22:33,139 --> 00:22:34,194
it? Do you remember

640
00:22:34,494 --> 00:22:36,494
the moment? I'm trying to think if there

641
00:22:36,494 --> 00:22:38,015
was a moment. There was always you know,

642
00:22:38,015 --> 00:22:41,295
I think, like many things and even purpose

643
00:22:41,295 --> 00:22:43,535
filled things, it can start from a very

644
00:22:43,535 --> 00:22:45,934
selfish spot where I was I was a

645
00:22:45,934 --> 00:22:48,109
young leader, and I was just curious what

646
00:22:48,109 --> 00:22:50,750
other people were doing. Or Mhmm. I was

647
00:22:50,750 --> 00:22:51,250
curious.

648
00:22:51,710 --> 00:22:53,390
You know, I I I had this deep

649
00:22:53,390 --> 00:22:54,830
desire. I wanted to do a good job.

650
00:22:54,830 --> 00:22:56,269
You know, I've been asked to do you

651
00:22:56,269 --> 00:22:58,109
know, serve in this this way, and, you

652
00:22:58,109 --> 00:23:00,190
know, people are bringing problems to me or

653
00:23:00,190 --> 00:23:02,269
people are looking to me as a resource

654
00:23:02,269 --> 00:23:02,430
of

655
00:23:03,125 --> 00:23:04,725
in their need, and I wanted to be

656
00:23:04,725 --> 00:23:06,164
able to show up for them. Right? And,

657
00:23:06,404 --> 00:23:08,505
I knew I saw from my own ability

658
00:23:09,045 --> 00:23:10,744
and experience that that wasn't

659
00:23:11,125 --> 00:23:13,125
I didn't have the resources to do that.

660
00:23:13,125 --> 00:23:15,269
Right? So then it's just being like, well,

661
00:23:15,349 --> 00:23:16,869
you know, and it's sort of right at

662
00:23:16,869 --> 00:23:19,670
that point of technology where it's like Mhmm.

663
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:21,670
Why are more people talking about this online

664
00:23:21,670 --> 00:23:23,750
or are they? And maybe I'm missing it.

665
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:25,589
Right? And then I realized, oh, this is

666
00:23:25,589 --> 00:23:28,330
wide open. Maybe I can be that person

667
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:30,984
to, you know, start the conversation. And, you

668
00:23:30,984 --> 00:23:33,705
know, that that was, sixteen years ago. Right?

669
00:23:33,705 --> 00:23:36,184
And and it's kinda grown since then. But

670
00:23:36,184 --> 00:23:38,345
I always to me in this is that

671
00:23:38,345 --> 00:23:40,904
I definitely felt like there was a a

672
00:23:40,904 --> 00:23:43,380
call there, an invitation from God. Right? Of

673
00:23:43,460 --> 00:23:45,220
remember early on, it was, like, you know,

674
00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:46,579
more of a hobby blog. This is, you

675
00:23:46,579 --> 00:23:48,519
know, 2010, 2011,

676
00:23:48,660 --> 00:23:50,900
where just hit and miss of, like, publishing

677
00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:52,599
content. This is before the podcast.

678
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:55,539
And sometimes I'd go six, seven, eight weeks,

679
00:23:55,539 --> 00:23:57,299
and I haven't even thought about it. And

680
00:23:57,299 --> 00:23:59,464
I just I remember one moment where it's

681
00:23:59,464 --> 00:24:02,424
like God reminded me, like, it's alright. Just

682
00:24:02,424 --> 00:24:04,184
keep at it because this will be a

683
00:24:04,184 --> 00:24:06,345
considerable part of your life. I'm like, oh,

684
00:24:06,345 --> 00:24:08,345
that's interesting. Right? Because, you know, we all

685
00:24:08,345 --> 00:24:10,585
have sort of these passion projects that come

686
00:24:10,585 --> 00:24:12,424
and go or you get excited about something

687
00:24:12,424 --> 00:24:14,424
and then it kinda phases out where this

688
00:24:14,424 --> 00:24:16,539
was like, I never tired of it. Right?

689
00:24:16,539 --> 00:24:17,819
And even to this day, I'm like, I

690
00:24:17,819 --> 00:24:20,139
don't know why I care so much having

691
00:24:20,139 --> 00:24:21,819
these conversations, but it's so fascinating. I mean,

692
00:24:21,819 --> 00:24:23,740
you mentioned all these books and people and

693
00:24:23,740 --> 00:24:25,579
research and things. I'm like, wow. This is

694
00:24:25,579 --> 00:24:27,819
so fun to learn about. Right? Yeah. I

695
00:24:27,819 --> 00:24:30,255
mean, Kurt, you are just me. To me,

696
00:24:30,255 --> 00:24:32,734
you're a great example of purpose. I mean,

697
00:24:32,734 --> 00:24:34,755
you're you're an example of somebody who

698
00:24:35,134 --> 00:24:36,274
experienced some pain

699
00:24:36,654 --> 00:24:39,375
as a leader who thought, man, I wanna

700
00:24:39,375 --> 00:24:40,575
do a good job, but I feel like

701
00:24:40,575 --> 00:24:42,559
I don't know what I'm doing in some

702
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:44,400
places. And you experienced a bit of a

703
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,880
mini crucible and said, I wanna go create

704
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,519
something in the world to alleviate that suffering

705
00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:50,740
for other human beings.

706
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:53,600
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what drives people

707
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,299
to the site. Right? That's why they come.

708
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,365
Yeah. For sure. And, you know, that's sort

709
00:24:57,365 --> 00:24:59,284
of it's evolved as as all things do,

710
00:24:59,284 --> 00:25:01,125
but then to you know, it was even

711
00:25:01,125 --> 00:25:03,605
more encouraging when you recognize, oh, there's, like,

712
00:25:03,605 --> 00:25:06,244
other people on the same wavelength of whether

713
00:25:06,244 --> 00:25:09,619
it's specifically related to know, leadership or just

714
00:25:09,619 --> 00:25:11,779
Zion building in general. You know, that's been

715
00:25:11,779 --> 00:25:14,200
really fascinating to see that, oh, there's actually

716
00:25:14,740 --> 00:25:17,140
so many other people who are driven by

717
00:25:17,140 --> 00:25:19,380
this inner purpose of, like, I don't know

718
00:25:19,380 --> 00:25:21,224
what it is or I don't, you know,

719
00:25:21,224 --> 00:25:22,424
but I feel like I need to have

720
00:25:22,424 --> 00:25:24,505
impact. I need to be able to sleep

721
00:25:24,505 --> 00:25:26,744
at night knowing that I'm, you know, like,

722
00:25:26,744 --> 00:25:29,144
I'm God's workmanship. Like, he created me to

723
00:25:29,144 --> 00:25:31,065
do something. Right? Which in I don't mean

724
00:25:31,065 --> 00:25:32,424
this to be a tangent, but this kind

725
00:25:32,424 --> 00:25:34,984
of I think our faith tradition sometimes feeds

726
00:25:34,984 --> 00:25:37,679
into this where, as you know, you know,

727
00:25:37,679 --> 00:25:39,599
serving as a bishop or a stake president

728
00:25:39,599 --> 00:25:42,640
or easily, like, you are given on a

729
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,019
golden platter purpose.

730
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,960
Right? I mean, it's just like That's true.

731
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,720
You just just take it. Like, there it

732
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,494
is. Like, a family's in crisis, and you're

733
00:25:51,494 --> 00:25:53,255
one of the first phone calls. Right? And

734
00:25:53,255 --> 00:25:55,815
you're sitting in their living room. You're witnessing

735
00:25:55,815 --> 00:25:58,794
of God and his salvation and redemption, and

736
00:25:58,855 --> 00:26:01,014
you're taking the food order. You you know,

737
00:26:01,014 --> 00:26:03,630
that's just it's given to you so clearly.

738
00:26:03,630 --> 00:26:05,710
Right? And then and some of these callings

739
00:26:05,710 --> 00:26:07,869
are so long that was we leave these

740
00:26:07,869 --> 00:26:10,269
callings, we sort of realize, oh, like, I

741
00:26:10,269 --> 00:26:12,589
don't know how to find purpose now. Mhmm.

742
00:26:12,589 --> 00:26:14,509
Because it was it was right there for

743
00:26:14,509 --> 00:26:17,205
me. Right? And so sometimes we then we

744
00:26:17,205 --> 00:26:19,285
kind of what's next? Right? We kind of

745
00:26:19,285 --> 00:26:21,205
want the next thing because that's where our

746
00:26:21,205 --> 00:26:23,525
purpose comes from when that's great. It's a

747
00:26:23,525 --> 00:26:25,765
wonderful source, but that only lasts for a

748
00:26:25,765 --> 00:26:26,265
time.

749
00:26:26,644 --> 00:26:28,744
It does. And to your point, purpose

750
00:26:29,410 --> 00:26:31,970
isn't something out there waiting to be like

751
00:26:31,970 --> 00:26:34,690
stumbled over, right, or discovered. And this is

752
00:26:34,690 --> 00:26:37,009
one of the great maybe revelations that has

753
00:26:37,009 --> 00:26:38,450
come to me in the past several years

754
00:26:38,450 --> 00:26:40,769
is that purpose can be found in anything

755
00:26:40,769 --> 00:26:43,615
we do. What I'm super interested in is

756
00:26:43,615 --> 00:26:45,794
sitting with a young woman's class advisor

757
00:26:46,095 --> 00:26:48,494
and helping her identify purpose. Like, how can

758
00:26:48,494 --> 00:26:49,554
I just really,

759
00:26:50,095 --> 00:26:52,575
really do this calling from a true sense

760
00:26:52,575 --> 00:26:55,154
of purpose that magnifies my talents and abilities

761
00:26:55,214 --> 00:26:56,674
and praises God

762
00:26:57,009 --> 00:26:59,089
and blesses these young women? Or how can

763
00:26:59,089 --> 00:27:01,650
I sit with the secretary in the primary

764
00:27:01,650 --> 00:27:04,450
presidency and help her recognize the greater purpose

765
00:27:04,450 --> 00:27:06,069
behind her work? I just think

766
00:27:06,450 --> 00:27:08,609
we sometimes wait for that purpose to come

767
00:27:08,609 --> 00:27:10,494
when really it can be it can be

768
00:27:10,494 --> 00:27:12,335
found in anything we're doing. We just have

769
00:27:12,335 --> 00:27:14,414
to be intentional about trying to mine it

770
00:27:14,414 --> 00:27:16,734
out and discover it. Yeah. For sure. I

771
00:27:16,734 --> 00:27:18,575
was gonna ask, oh, this concept of the

772
00:27:18,575 --> 00:27:20,275
crucibles, I think, really

773
00:27:20,654 --> 00:27:21,154
enlightening

774
00:27:21,615 --> 00:27:23,940
because I'm just thinking about, like, from a

775
00:27:23,940 --> 00:27:26,019
leadership standpoint, you know, that bishop maybe that

776
00:27:26,019 --> 00:27:27,539
you were talking to, like, how do I

777
00:27:27,539 --> 00:27:30,099
motivate my people? We sometimes get to a

778
00:27:30,099 --> 00:27:32,579
state of, like, I'm really I feel full

779
00:27:32,579 --> 00:27:35,220
of purpose. I feel full of passion in

780
00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:36,819
in this work that I'm involved in, but

781
00:27:36,819 --> 00:27:38,744
those around me don't seem

782
00:27:39,605 --> 00:27:41,304
as excited about it. And so

783
00:27:41,684 --> 00:27:43,765
we kinda have this we feel that tension

784
00:27:43,765 --> 00:27:44,825
and we kinda

785
00:27:45,125 --> 00:27:46,325
then we go to this place of how

786
00:27:46,325 --> 00:27:48,244
do I motivate them. And and it's natural.

787
00:27:48,244 --> 00:27:50,325
It's human nature, and it it's manifested in

788
00:27:50,325 --> 00:27:52,349
our faith tradition as well where we begin

789
00:27:52,349 --> 00:27:54,349
to talk to people. They're like, well, maybe

790
00:27:54,349 --> 00:27:56,829
if I explained it enough times to you,

791
00:27:56,829 --> 00:27:58,349
then you'll get it and then you'll start

792
00:27:58,349 --> 00:28:00,750
moving. Right? And so the infamous, like, fifth

793
00:28:00,750 --> 00:28:02,670
Sunday lesson, you're like, oh, I know. Yeah.

794
00:28:02,670 --> 00:28:04,269
Yeah. We're gonna have a fifth Sunday. That's

795
00:28:04,269 --> 00:28:06,224
right. And I was like, as if a

796
00:28:06,224 --> 00:28:08,545
forty minute, like, in in a few slides

797
00:28:08,545 --> 00:28:10,464
will then, you know, rally the troops or

798
00:28:10,464 --> 00:28:13,105
whatever. But this crucible concept, I think, is

799
00:28:13,105 --> 00:28:14,005
often overlooked.

800
00:28:14,545 --> 00:28:16,384
This because it's the a crucible is a

801
00:28:16,384 --> 00:28:18,704
change agent, right, where you think of, like,

802
00:28:18,704 --> 00:28:20,920
the mission, like, a two year mission. If

803
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,119
I go back in time and pick a

804
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,519
random day, I'm probably gonna find something less

805
00:28:24,519 --> 00:28:26,759
than exciting. Right? It's like I'm just walking

806
00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:29,640
around the streets of Sacramento. I'm tripping over

807
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,880
myself as I try and speak Spanish. But

808
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,539
the whole crucible together, that was an incredible

809
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,285
change agent where it developed me and sanctified

810
00:28:37,345 --> 00:28:39,744
my character. Right? Or you think of we

811
00:28:39,744 --> 00:28:40,244
send

812
00:28:40,545 --> 00:28:41,525
youth to FSY.

813
00:28:41,904 --> 00:28:44,785
Like, that's a crucible experience. I and not

814
00:28:44,785 --> 00:28:46,704
that they're apples and apples by by any

815
00:28:46,704 --> 00:28:49,025
means, but it's an experience that people are

816
00:28:49,025 --> 00:28:51,119
having that are changing them, not for any

817
00:28:51,119 --> 00:28:53,839
particular reason or because one person gave the

818
00:28:53,839 --> 00:28:56,559
perfect talk or whatever. And so I feel

819
00:28:56,559 --> 00:28:59,619
like for those bishops that are, like, struggling

820
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:00,980
or leaders that are struggling,

821
00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:03,839
rather than saying what information do they need,

822
00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:05,680
it's more important to ask what how can

823
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,315
we enter in a crucible of change here

824
00:29:08,315 --> 00:29:10,554
so that they'll find a purpose that will

825
00:29:10,554 --> 00:29:12,554
come out of like, it just kinda then

826
00:29:12,554 --> 00:29:14,474
blossoms into what it should be at that

827
00:29:14,474 --> 00:29:15,755
point. But what what comes to mind in

828
00:29:15,755 --> 00:29:16,654
my own way?

829
00:29:16,954 --> 00:29:19,319
You're on exactly the right track. Or how

830
00:29:19,319 --> 00:29:21,799
can we help them identify a crucible they've

831
00:29:21,799 --> 00:29:23,960
already been through Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That will

832
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,980
help them make meaning of their current

833
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:29,319
role or experience or leadership? Like, what crucible

834
00:29:29,319 --> 00:29:30,779
in the past can drive

835
00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:32,380
present behavior?

836
00:29:33,144 --> 00:29:34,744
I love that you're latching onto this, Kurt,

837
00:29:34,744 --> 00:29:36,845
because this to me was the biggest revelation

838
00:29:36,984 --> 00:29:38,984
eleven years ago when I began studying purpose

839
00:29:38,984 --> 00:29:40,904
is that it emerges from the hard parts

840
00:29:40,904 --> 00:29:42,505
of our life. Like, it's the stuff we

841
00:29:42,505 --> 00:29:44,025
don't want to look at and that we

842
00:29:44,025 --> 00:29:44,924
wanna bury

843
00:29:45,250 --> 00:29:47,329
and hide away. But if we'll go stare

844
00:29:47,329 --> 00:29:49,490
at it long enough, it'll teach us something

845
00:29:49,490 --> 00:29:51,809
about what God intends us to do in

846
00:29:51,809 --> 00:29:53,829
this world. Let me give you an example

847
00:29:54,130 --> 00:29:56,210
that is kind of really resonant for me

848
00:29:56,210 --> 00:29:58,634
personally. So I was called as the stake

849
00:29:58,634 --> 00:30:00,875
president three years ago, just about three years

850
00:30:00,875 --> 00:30:03,115
ago, and that first state conference is always

851
00:30:03,115 --> 00:30:05,115
a bit unnerving because you just think, gosh,

852
00:30:05,115 --> 00:30:06,795
I've got to have this, like, vision for

853
00:30:06,795 --> 00:30:09,434
the stake, I've got to motivate people and

854
00:30:09,434 --> 00:30:11,134
and and help people feel inspired,

855
00:30:11,509 --> 00:30:13,190
and yet I'm only gonna take fifteen minutes

856
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:14,630
or twenty minutes to do it in that

857
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:17,190
state conference. And I just, man, I sat

858
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:17,930
for a while

859
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:20,710
spinning my wheel, like, what would be the

860
00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:21,210
thing

861
00:30:21,670 --> 00:30:23,350
that we could latch on to as a

862
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:25,875
stake to kind of drive us forward. And

863
00:30:25,875 --> 00:30:27,634
so I went to this purpose work, and

864
00:30:27,634 --> 00:30:29,555
I started to think about some crucibles, some

865
00:30:29,555 --> 00:30:31,015
moments in my life

866
00:30:31,315 --> 00:30:34,055
that might drive a purpose for our stake.

867
00:30:34,595 --> 00:30:36,995
And I thought about two things specifically that

868
00:30:36,995 --> 00:30:40,289
really kinda stood out. The first was really

869
00:30:40,289 --> 00:30:42,609
maybe three things. The first one was a

870
00:30:42,609 --> 00:30:44,529
conversation I'd had with a member of a

871
00:30:44,529 --> 00:30:46,210
temple presence he had worked with a number

872
00:30:46,210 --> 00:30:47,490
of years ago, and he told this really

873
00:30:47,490 --> 00:30:48,230
great story.

874
00:30:48,609 --> 00:30:50,710
He said he was watching his grandson's

875
00:30:51,089 --> 00:30:54,275
homecoming talk on Zoom, and, at the end

876
00:30:54,275 --> 00:30:56,674
of the meeting, this man stood up who

877
00:30:56,674 --> 00:30:58,674
appeared to be the concluding speaker in the

878
00:30:58,674 --> 00:30:59,174
homecoming.

879
00:30:59,474 --> 00:31:01,795
And he had kind of a scraggly, patchy

880
00:31:01,795 --> 00:31:04,355
beard, and as he turned to thank these

881
00:31:04,355 --> 00:31:06,595
other speakers that had spoken, he turned his

882
00:31:06,595 --> 00:31:08,500
head in this toenytale whip to have these

883
00:31:08,500 --> 00:31:10,680
little rubber bands holding it in place, and

884
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:12,740
this brother, this member of this temple presidency

885
00:31:12,740 --> 00:31:14,740
that I was talking to, wondered who this

886
00:31:14,740 --> 00:31:16,579
could be and why on earth he was

887
00:31:16,579 --> 00:31:18,180
closing up the meeting. Like, why would you

888
00:31:18,180 --> 00:31:19,160
close-up at homecoming

889
00:31:19,674 --> 00:31:21,275
with this man being the closing theme? What

890
00:31:21,275 --> 00:31:24,174
an interesting person to have. And just then,

891
00:31:24,234 --> 00:31:26,015
as this man is speaking on the screen,

892
00:31:26,394 --> 00:31:28,714
my friend's daughter sitting next to him turns

893
00:31:28,714 --> 00:31:30,394
to him and says, oh, dad, you would

894
00:31:30,394 --> 00:31:32,474
love this man. He's the bishop of the

895
00:31:32,474 --> 00:31:35,160
ward. And in that moment, this temple prince

896
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,759
member just kinda had a prick in his

897
00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:37,259
heart,

898
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,599
and he thought, oh, shame on me. He

899
00:31:40,599 --> 00:31:42,920
realized he actually would really love that brother

900
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,359
if he took the time to get to

901
00:31:44,359 --> 00:31:46,680
know him, but he immediately felt that kind

902
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,075
of that judgment. Right? The second thing that

903
00:31:49,075 --> 00:31:50,674
happened around the same time is that my

904
00:31:50,674 --> 00:31:52,434
family and I had actually kind of an

905
00:31:52,434 --> 00:31:54,914
opposite experience. We were off, doing a trip

906
00:31:54,914 --> 00:31:57,315
to Washington DC, and on a Sunday, we

907
00:31:57,315 --> 00:31:59,894
were gonna pass them through, I think, Virginia

908
00:32:00,034 --> 00:32:02,539
or or somewhere around there. And we didn't

909
00:32:02,539 --> 00:32:04,319
think we were gonna be near a church

910
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:06,059
building anywhere, and so we thought, you know

911
00:32:06,059 --> 00:32:07,980
what? We'll just keep the Sabbath day holy

912
00:32:07,980 --> 00:32:09,740
in the car. Like, we'll listen to nice

913
00:32:09,740 --> 00:32:10,539
music. We'll,

914
00:32:11,179 --> 00:32:13,500
you know, do a little scripture study. We'll

915
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:15,474
pack our lunch instead of stopping at Chick

916
00:32:15,474 --> 00:32:16,914
fil A or which I guess wouldn't be

917
00:32:16,914 --> 00:32:19,095
open anyway, but, you know, McDonald's or whatever.

918
00:32:19,554 --> 00:32:21,474
And so we we hit the road. Well,

919
00:32:21,474 --> 00:32:23,014
around, 08:40,

920
00:32:23,075 --> 00:32:25,394
we're driving through the hill country, and we

921
00:32:25,394 --> 00:32:27,154
look up on the hill and there, sure

922
00:32:27,154 --> 00:32:29,970
enough, is an LDS chapel. And my kids

923
00:32:29,970 --> 00:32:32,130
go, dad, dad, there's a chapel. And I'm

924
00:32:32,130 --> 00:32:34,529
like, oh, yeah. There sure is. Wow. Boy.

925
00:32:34,529 --> 00:32:36,369
Too late. We probably missed it by now.

926
00:32:36,369 --> 00:32:38,289
They're like, well, let's look and find out.

927
00:32:38,289 --> 00:32:40,309
And so we looked online, and sure enough,

928
00:32:40,529 --> 00:32:42,450
sacrament meeting starts at nine. I look at

929
00:32:42,450 --> 00:32:43,910
the clock. It's 08:40.

930
00:32:44,075 --> 00:32:45,595
Kids are like, let's go to sacrament meeting.

931
00:32:45,595 --> 00:32:48,234
And I'm like, okay. Let's do it. So

932
00:32:48,234 --> 00:32:49,835
we pull up to the sacrament meeting, and

933
00:32:49,835 --> 00:32:51,994
remember, we're in our traveling clothes, and so

934
00:32:51,994 --> 00:32:54,494
everyone's in their pajamas. I've got my favorite

935
00:32:54,795 --> 00:32:57,480
shirt on as this wolf, Yellowstone shirt with

936
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,320
this wolf howling at the moon and my

937
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,880
sweatpants, and I think, oh, boy. Here we

938
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,820
go. So we walk into this church building,

939
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,320
and we go sit at the very back

940
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:06,460
to not be a distraction.

941
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,920
And, you know, sure enough, everybody turns their

942
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,519
head and looks at my family of six

943
00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:12,274
back there in the back row. And as

944
00:33:12,274 --> 00:33:13,794
soon as the meeting ended, we tried to

945
00:33:13,794 --> 00:33:15,154
race out of there so we, you know,

946
00:33:15,154 --> 00:33:17,794
would embarrass ourselves. Before we could even get

947
00:33:17,794 --> 00:33:19,554
to the door, we had 12 people stop

948
00:33:19,554 --> 00:33:22,595
us shaking hands, giving us hugs, welcoming us,

949
00:33:22,595 --> 00:33:25,240
and not one person seemed to notice that

950
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,079
I was wearing a shirt with a wolf

951
00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:28,919
howling at a moon, and then my kids

952
00:33:28,919 --> 00:33:31,159
were in pajamas. They just treated us like

953
00:33:31,159 --> 00:33:33,399
they were super welcoming and and super friendly

954
00:33:33,399 --> 00:33:35,399
to us. Well, as I thought about these

955
00:33:35,399 --> 00:33:36,140
two experiences,

956
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,480
these moments for me that they were really

957
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,154
kind of recent at that time. I thought

958
00:33:42,154 --> 00:33:44,315
about some of my own siblings who are

959
00:33:44,315 --> 00:33:45,535
not active in the church

960
00:33:45,914 --> 00:33:47,914
and how badly I would want them to

961
00:33:47,914 --> 00:33:49,055
show up to a congregation

962
00:33:49,835 --> 00:33:50,894
and to be treated

963
00:33:51,275 --> 00:33:53,190
like these people treated us and to not

964
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:55,509
be treated like sometimes we might treat somebody

965
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:57,669
that looks different than us. And I thought,

966
00:33:57,669 --> 00:33:59,589
you know what? If we can do nothing

967
00:33:59,589 --> 00:34:02,009
more, we need to be the most welcoming

968
00:34:02,069 --> 00:34:04,470
and friendly stake in Zion. Like, that's going

969
00:34:04,470 --> 00:34:05,865
to be our calling card. And so I

970
00:34:05,865 --> 00:34:07,305
gave the talk and I just saw the

971
00:34:07,305 --> 00:34:09,304
head nods and people latched on to it.

972
00:34:09,304 --> 00:34:12,184
This became our purpose statement, our rallying cry.

973
00:34:12,184 --> 00:34:13,565
We will be the most welcoming

974
00:34:14,025 --> 00:34:15,724
and friendly stake in Zion.

975
00:34:16,105 --> 00:34:18,765
And when you think about that, for me,

976
00:34:19,130 --> 00:34:21,449
it's even deeper than that. There's some crucibles

977
00:34:21,449 --> 00:34:23,610
in the past, moments where I haven't felt

978
00:34:23,610 --> 00:34:26,250
welcomed, or people haven't been kind to me

979
00:34:26,250 --> 00:34:28,410
or family members, or perhaps I haven't been

980
00:34:28,410 --> 00:34:30,650
that way. And that's what drove the purpose,

981
00:34:30,650 --> 00:34:32,670
right? It comes from those moments

982
00:34:33,045 --> 00:34:34,964
that we trip over, and we like to

983
00:34:34,964 --> 00:34:36,484
bury them and hide them. But if we'll

984
00:34:36,484 --> 00:34:38,324
unearth them and look at them for what

985
00:34:38,324 --> 00:34:39,924
they are, they really can help give us

986
00:34:39,924 --> 00:34:42,005
a sense of purpose in whatever we're doing,

987
00:34:42,005 --> 00:34:44,724
whatever calling that might be. Yeah. I love

988
00:34:44,724 --> 00:34:47,464
that. That's fantastic. And, again, that the simplicity

989
00:34:47,684 --> 00:34:51,320
of that statement is is really helpful. Right?

990
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,079
It's not a, here's your, you know, two

991
00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:55,320
page front and back. You know? Yeah. It's

992
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:56,780
not a narrative. Short.

993
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:58,539
It's big and idealistic.

994
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,974
We'll never accomplish it. In fact, I, you

995
00:35:01,974 --> 00:35:03,815
know, I've had members that have sent me

996
00:35:03,815 --> 00:35:05,094
emails and said, Hey, I thought we were

997
00:35:05,094 --> 00:35:06,534
supposed to be the most welcoming and friendly

998
00:35:06,534 --> 00:35:08,054
stake. Look what happened to me, and it

999
00:35:08,054 --> 00:35:09,894
breaks my heart. I'm like, Okay, look, we're

1000
00:35:09,894 --> 00:35:12,394
striving for this. It's big. It's idealistic.

1001
00:35:12,775 --> 00:35:15,059
It's a short statement, and it's rooted in

1002
00:35:15,059 --> 00:35:16,739
our past and things we need to get

1003
00:35:16,739 --> 00:35:19,380
better at. But it's motivating. Like, it's super

1004
00:35:19,380 --> 00:35:21,320
motivating, and people can

1005
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:23,160
do something with that. Right?

1006
00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:25,860
Yeah. Would you say, like because I think

1007
00:35:25,860 --> 00:35:26,420
a lot of,

1008
00:35:27,140 --> 00:35:29,804
leaders there's a few temptations, right, that is

1009
00:35:29,804 --> 00:35:32,605
somebody steps into a formal leadership role of

1010
00:35:32,764 --> 00:35:34,125
you kinda wanna pick up where the last

1011
00:35:34,125 --> 00:35:36,525
guy left off, especially with, you know, that

1012
00:35:36,525 --> 00:35:38,844
guy is now in the room, you know,

1013
00:35:38,844 --> 00:35:41,724
monitoring your leadership. And so sometimes it's hard

1014
00:35:41,724 --> 00:35:44,489
to completely start over, take a really sharp

1015
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:46,789
new direction. But would you recommend that in

1016
00:35:46,789 --> 00:35:48,409
general, sort of having at least

1017
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:51,529
some sort of rallying point at the beginning

1018
00:35:51,829 --> 00:35:53,369
to focus people on a purpose?

1019
00:35:53,829 --> 00:35:56,385
Look. I think so. I just think this

1020
00:35:56,385 --> 00:35:58,144
has shaped me in a really unique way

1021
00:35:58,144 --> 00:36:00,305
that any calling I serve in from this

1022
00:36:00,305 --> 00:36:02,385
day forward, I'm just gonna start by asking

1023
00:36:02,385 --> 00:36:03,525
the question why.

1024
00:36:03,985 --> 00:36:06,704
Why has god called me to this calling

1025
00:36:06,704 --> 00:36:07,605
at this time?

1026
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,440
And then why do we do what we

1027
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,519
do? Like, why why are we doing all

1028
00:36:11,519 --> 00:36:13,059
of these things that we're doing?

1029
00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:14,420
God has a really

1030
00:36:14,799 --> 00:36:17,760
interesting organization, doesn't he? Again, as a leadership

1031
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,760
consultant, I go into companies and I try

1032
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,519
to help them run more efficiently and and

1033
00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:22,960
put people in the right spot on the

1034
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,045
bus. And here we are, a part of

1035
00:36:25,045 --> 00:36:27,144
a massive global organization.

1036
00:36:27,684 --> 00:36:29,224
And if I were to walk into

1037
00:36:29,765 --> 00:36:31,605
any other company that I work with in

1038
00:36:31,605 --> 00:36:32,265
my profession

1039
00:36:32,644 --> 00:36:34,085
and say, hey. I have a I have

1040
00:36:34,085 --> 00:36:36,300
a solution for you. What I want you

1041
00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:36,960
to do

1042
00:36:37,340 --> 00:36:38,640
is, on a relatively

1043
00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:41,900
frequent and somewhat arbitrary basis, I want you

1044
00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:43,920
to change everybody's jobs

1045
00:36:44,300 --> 00:36:46,239
and move them around the organization.

1046
00:36:46,780 --> 00:36:48,860
Take this person from the, you know, the

1047
00:36:48,860 --> 00:36:51,055
warehouse and this person from the executive team

1048
00:36:51,055 --> 00:36:52,335
and this person here, and I just want

1049
00:36:52,335 --> 00:36:54,515
you to change everybody's jobs up

1050
00:36:54,815 --> 00:36:55,315
overnight,

1051
00:36:55,855 --> 00:36:57,635
give them minimal instruction,

1052
00:36:58,255 --> 00:37:00,015
and then let them just run and do

1053
00:37:00,015 --> 00:37:01,949
the best they can. And then do that

1054
00:37:01,949 --> 00:37:03,789
about every couple weeks or couple months. I

1055
00:37:03,789 --> 00:37:05,630
just want you to change everybody up. I

1056
00:37:05,630 --> 00:37:07,630
wouldn't have a job. Like, companies wouldn't hire

1057
00:37:07,630 --> 00:37:09,309
me. They'd throw me out. That's that's the

1058
00:37:09,309 --> 00:37:11,789
worst organization plan I've ever had. But that's

1059
00:37:11,789 --> 00:37:13,550
what the lord does. Right? That's how he's

1060
00:37:13,550 --> 00:37:16,265
chosen to run his organizations. He says, I'm

1061
00:37:16,265 --> 00:37:19,065
just gonna move everybody around on a frequent

1062
00:37:19,065 --> 00:37:19,965
basis, and

1063
00:37:20,345 --> 00:37:21,724
and you're just gonna kinda,

1064
00:37:22,105 --> 00:37:23,945
you know, learn new things as you go.

1065
00:37:23,945 --> 00:37:26,265
And the only reason I could thank, Curt,

1066
00:37:26,265 --> 00:37:27,724
that he does it this way

1067
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:30,320
is because of the ultimate why, which is

1068
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,400
that he wants us to learn to become

1069
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:33,140
like Christ.

1070
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,619
And every calling I'm in

1071
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,180
teaches me something about the savior.

1072
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,559
Every calling I'm a part of, I learn

1073
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:42,180
something. I learn long suffering.

1074
00:37:42,785 --> 00:37:45,045
I learn patience. I learn organization.

1075
00:37:45,985 --> 00:37:47,125
I learn ministry.

1076
00:37:47,905 --> 00:37:49,925
I learn humility or grace.

1077
00:37:50,385 --> 00:37:52,305
There's something to be learned in every calling

1078
00:37:52,305 --> 00:37:54,224
and if we can look at callings that

1079
00:37:54,224 --> 00:37:56,590
way, instead of just picking up where the

1080
00:37:56,590 --> 00:37:58,670
previous person left off, if we could stop

1081
00:37:58,670 --> 00:37:59,409
and say,

1082
00:37:59,949 --> 00:38:01,789
why have I been called to this? What

1083
00:38:01,789 --> 00:38:03,949
would God have me learn? And how can

1084
00:38:03,949 --> 00:38:05,869
I be a blessing to these people? I

1085
00:38:05,869 --> 00:38:07,809
think it would change the way we serve.

1086
00:38:08,030 --> 00:38:10,775
Yeah. That's so true. That's so true. I'm

1087
00:38:10,775 --> 00:38:13,175
curious of those anything else you would say?

1088
00:38:13,175 --> 00:38:15,355
What about the, like, the the person who

1089
00:38:15,655 --> 00:38:17,114
maybe isn't in a formal

1090
00:38:17,894 --> 00:38:19,894
church leadership role and they're they're just, like,

1091
00:38:19,894 --> 00:38:22,215
striving to find their purpose and they've maybe

1092
00:38:22,215 --> 00:38:23,894
tried a few things? I mean, is there

1093
00:38:23,894 --> 00:38:26,075
some exercises they could go through to better

1094
00:38:26,289 --> 00:38:28,309
come across and and feel that purpose?

1095
00:38:28,769 --> 00:38:30,069
Yeah. For sure. The

1096
00:38:30,369 --> 00:38:31,730
and, again, this is why I wrote the

1097
00:38:31,730 --> 00:38:33,329
book is just to try to help guide

1098
00:38:33,329 --> 00:38:36,210
people with some specific activities and reflection questions,

1099
00:38:36,210 --> 00:38:38,929
but, really, it's not super challenging. It really

1100
00:38:38,929 --> 00:38:40,690
comes down to a couple of questions you

1101
00:38:40,690 --> 00:38:41,670
should ask yourself.

1102
00:38:42,025 --> 00:38:44,184
The first one is, of course, about those

1103
00:38:44,184 --> 00:38:44,684
crucibles.

1104
00:38:45,304 --> 00:38:46,985
What has happened in my past that has

1105
00:38:46,985 --> 00:38:49,065
uniquely prepared me to go and make a

1106
00:38:49,065 --> 00:38:51,385
change in the world? A second question comes

1107
00:38:51,385 --> 00:38:52,764
from a guy named Bill Damon.

1108
00:38:53,065 --> 00:38:55,704
He studies purpose. He's at Stanford University and

1109
00:38:55,704 --> 00:38:57,385
has spent his whole career talking about it,

1110
00:38:57,385 --> 00:39:00,079
and he works specifically with young people. And

1111
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:01,840
he challenges them to consider a couple of

1112
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,860
questions. One of them that comes to mind

1113
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,940
is what is the impact

1114
00:39:06,559 --> 00:39:08,180
I hope to make in the world?

1115
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,079
And another one is looking back thirty years

1116
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:12,820
from now,

1117
00:39:13,265 --> 00:39:15,425
what change do I hope to have made

1118
00:39:15,425 --> 00:39:16,244
in the world?

1119
00:39:16,625 --> 00:39:18,785
And regardless of the calling you're in, I

1120
00:39:18,785 --> 00:39:20,305
think if you would just stop and ask

1121
00:39:20,305 --> 00:39:21,445
yourself those questions,

1122
00:39:21,905 --> 00:39:23,105
even if it has nothing to do with

1123
00:39:23,105 --> 00:39:25,184
the calling, what have I experienced that has

1124
00:39:25,184 --> 00:39:27,844
positioned me to offer something to the world?

1125
00:39:28,179 --> 00:39:29,780
What impact do I hope to make? And

1126
00:39:29,780 --> 00:39:31,140
thirty years from now, what do I hope

1127
00:39:31,140 --> 00:39:32,980
people will say about me and the impact

1128
00:39:32,980 --> 00:39:34,659
that I that I had on the people

1129
00:39:34,659 --> 00:39:36,420
around me in the world? I think you'll

1130
00:39:36,420 --> 00:39:37,880
start to get some clues

1131
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:40,340
from God about what he would have you

1132
00:39:40,340 --> 00:39:42,204
do. We had a couple over, a young

1133
00:39:42,204 --> 00:39:44,764
couple over for dinner on Sunday, and, the

1134
00:39:44,764 --> 00:39:47,025
young man, the brother, they're just newly married,

1135
00:39:47,164 --> 00:39:48,764
was trying to figure out what to do

1136
00:39:48,764 --> 00:39:50,045
with his life. He's trying to figure out

1137
00:39:50,045 --> 00:39:51,885
his career path. And I started to just

1138
00:39:51,885 --> 00:39:53,484
ask him questions. I said, so so tell

1139
00:39:53,484 --> 00:39:55,489
me about your past. Tell me about your

1140
00:39:55,489 --> 00:39:57,089
upbringing and kind of what brought you to

1141
00:39:57,089 --> 00:39:59,010
where you are today. And he started talking

1142
00:39:59,010 --> 00:40:01,170
about his family and his parents and some

1143
00:40:01,170 --> 00:40:02,769
of the hardships they went through, and he

1144
00:40:02,769 --> 00:40:04,710
started to get really passionate. And

1145
00:40:05,089 --> 00:40:07,730
he began circling around purpose himself, you know.

1146
00:40:07,730 --> 00:40:09,010
He said, I just I don't know. I

1147
00:40:09,010 --> 00:40:11,154
just really feel like the reason I'm here

1148
00:40:11,154 --> 00:40:12,594
on Earth is to help people have a

1149
00:40:12,594 --> 00:40:14,674
better experience on their journey through life, and

1150
00:40:14,674 --> 00:40:16,034
the way I wanna do that is this.

1151
00:40:16,034 --> 00:40:17,714
And at the end of it, I said,

1152
00:40:17,714 --> 00:40:19,714
you just discovered your purpose. I'll just go

1153
00:40:19,714 --> 00:40:21,014
do it. I just think we

1154
00:40:21,394 --> 00:40:23,474
say it, but we sometimes don't realize we're

1155
00:40:23,474 --> 00:40:25,530
saying it. But if we'll just start to

1156
00:40:25,530 --> 00:40:27,369
pay attention to these things, God will give

1157
00:40:27,369 --> 00:40:29,210
us clues. He'll give us hints. Yeah. No.

1158
00:40:29,210 --> 00:40:31,050
I love that advice of going back, you

1159
00:40:31,050 --> 00:40:34,030
know, really identifying the the past crucibles. And

1160
00:40:34,090 --> 00:40:36,329
I think there's so much there to explore

1161
00:40:36,329 --> 00:40:38,329
and and understand. You know? So that's a

1162
00:40:38,329 --> 00:40:39,309
great great place.

1163
00:40:39,614 --> 00:40:40,815
Yeah. In fact, let me give you a

1164
00:40:40,815 --> 00:40:42,335
quick activity. This would be fun for you

1165
00:40:42,335 --> 00:40:44,414
or the or or podcast listeners. This is

1166
00:40:44,414 --> 00:40:46,014
something I do with every client I ever

1167
00:40:46,014 --> 00:40:47,934
work with. I have them draw what's called

1168
00:40:47,934 --> 00:40:50,255
a journey map. It's very simple. Get a

1169
00:40:50,255 --> 00:40:52,414
piece of paper. This side of the paper

1170
00:40:52,414 --> 00:40:54,659
represents your birth. This side of the paper

1171
00:40:54,659 --> 00:40:56,739
represents where you are now, you can draw

1172
00:40:56,739 --> 00:40:58,199
a baseline across the center,

1173
00:40:58,500 --> 00:40:59,940
and then I want you to draw a

1174
00:40:59,940 --> 00:41:02,339
squiggly line that looks kind of like a

1175
00:41:02,339 --> 00:41:04,339
stock market ticker that goes up and down

1176
00:41:04,339 --> 00:41:06,434
like a roller coaster ride, And the line

1177
00:41:06,434 --> 00:41:08,515
should represent the highs and the lows of

1178
00:41:08,515 --> 00:41:09,175
your life.

1179
00:41:09,474 --> 00:41:11,635
Draw a line that represents your life. When

1180
00:41:11,635 --> 00:41:13,875
you experience something great in your life, draw

1181
00:41:13,875 --> 00:41:15,474
it as a high. When you experience the

1182
00:41:15,474 --> 00:41:17,235
low, draw it as a low. And and

1183
00:41:17,235 --> 00:41:18,675
the bigger the higher, the bigger the low.

1184
00:41:18,675 --> 00:41:20,275
I want you to go bigger or lower.

1185
00:41:20,275 --> 00:41:22,360
And and some people might list out these

1186
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,159
experiences first, you know, college or dating or

1187
00:41:25,159 --> 00:41:28,519
whatever, heartbreak or divorce or death or whatever

1188
00:41:28,519 --> 00:41:30,780
it might be, and then just plot them

1189
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,159
and then draw a big long line. It

1190
00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:35,184
should look like a roller coaster. When I

1191
00:41:35,184 --> 00:41:37,344
have people do this, a couple things stand

1192
00:41:37,344 --> 00:41:38,405
out. Number one,

1193
00:41:38,784 --> 00:41:42,385
everybody's got highs and lows. Nobody's free. Number

1194
00:41:42,385 --> 00:41:45,045
two, it's always an emotional experience.

1195
00:41:45,424 --> 00:41:47,664
When you look back and say, wow, I've

1196
00:41:47,664 --> 00:41:49,444
gone through a lot in my life.

1197
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:51,670
And number three, I want you to go

1198
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:52,969
look at those low moments

1199
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:55,829
and ask yourself, what would God have me

1200
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:56,329
learn?

1201
00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:58,969
Like, what can I bring to my calling

1202
00:41:59,030 --> 00:42:01,349
or my leadership or my work? Like, what

1203
00:42:01,349 --> 00:42:03,485
would he have me do with that? I

1204
00:42:03,485 --> 00:42:05,244
think you'll find that he would want you

1205
00:42:05,244 --> 00:42:05,824
to go

1206
00:42:06,125 --> 00:42:08,045
and change something in the world to help

1207
00:42:08,045 --> 00:42:10,125
other people that might be experiencing that same

1208
00:42:10,125 --> 00:42:11,965
thing. That's where purpose comes from when I

1209
00:42:11,965 --> 00:42:13,344
say it comes from those lows.

1210
00:42:13,724 --> 00:42:15,265
Love it. That's really awesome.

1211
00:42:15,630 --> 00:42:18,029
What about, you know, with anything, especially as

1212
00:42:18,029 --> 00:42:19,710
we enter in a crucible, the the heat

1213
00:42:19,710 --> 00:42:21,869
of the crucible can be very poignant and,

1214
00:42:21,869 --> 00:42:24,190
like, wow. I'm really growing here or I

1215
00:42:24,190 --> 00:42:26,429
feel alive or there's so much to consider,

1216
00:42:26,429 --> 00:42:28,429
so much to process, and it it really

1217
00:42:28,429 --> 00:42:30,130
becomes a force that propels

1218
00:42:30,625 --> 00:42:33,204
someone forward. But then after time, you kinda

1219
00:42:33,265 --> 00:42:34,864
forget just you're in a crucible. You know,

1220
00:42:34,864 --> 00:42:37,905
maybe things become routine or almost bothersome, or

1221
00:42:37,905 --> 00:42:39,905
I've been through this so many times, especially

1222
00:42:39,905 --> 00:42:42,325
in church leadership where you maybe you reach

1223
00:42:42,465 --> 00:42:43,985
a little bit of boredom or you're going

1224
00:42:43,985 --> 00:42:46,230
through the motions or you're just so exhausted

1225
00:42:47,429 --> 00:42:49,109
with the experience, you know? How do we

1226
00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:51,510
reinvigorate maybe purpose and and where it was

1227
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:52,010
once

1228
00:42:52,389 --> 00:42:53,909
found? I think there needs to be a

1229
00:42:53,909 --> 00:42:54,409
consistent

1230
00:42:54,949 --> 00:42:58,170
checkpoint, and you could decide what that is.

1231
00:42:58,550 --> 00:43:00,434
For me, it's about no less than once

1232
00:43:00,434 --> 00:43:02,595
a quarter. I'll just take some time to

1233
00:43:02,595 --> 00:43:04,434
kind of step back, and I've created a

1234
00:43:04,434 --> 00:43:06,994
purpose statement for my life, like something that

1235
00:43:06,994 --> 00:43:09,555
drives every decision I make, and that purpose

1236
00:43:09,555 --> 00:43:10,934
statement is to maximize

1237
00:43:11,820 --> 00:43:12,719
human potential.

1238
00:43:13,180 --> 00:43:15,099
And that's linked directly to a crucible in

1239
00:43:15,099 --> 00:43:17,019
my twenties where I felt like my potential

1240
00:43:17,019 --> 00:43:21,019
was completely dormant, dismissed, stepped on, and I

1241
00:43:21,019 --> 00:43:23,099
remember the pain I felt as a husband

1242
00:43:23,099 --> 00:43:25,715
and father and trying to, you know, find

1243
00:43:25,715 --> 00:43:27,635
that purpose in life. And and so now

1244
00:43:27,635 --> 00:43:29,795
I just wanna help other people maximize their

1245
00:43:29,795 --> 00:43:30,295
potential.

1246
00:43:30,675 --> 00:43:32,434
About every quarter, I sit down and just

1247
00:43:32,434 --> 00:43:33,175
ask myself,

1248
00:43:34,035 --> 00:43:35,875
what am I doing to live into that

1249
00:43:35,875 --> 00:43:36,375
purpose

1250
00:43:36,675 --> 00:43:38,454
and where have I lost my way?

1251
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:40,630
I had a moment, Kurt, I was pretty

1252
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:41,670
vulnerable about,

1253
00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:43,929
three or four years ago where I

1254
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:46,230
felt like I drifted way far from my

1255
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:48,230
purpose, and I just needed to do like

1256
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:50,309
a total reset and ask myself, how did

1257
00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:51,910
I how did I go down this road?

1258
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:53,190
And how do I get back to where

1259
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:55,315
I am living with that sense of purpose?

1260
00:43:55,315 --> 00:43:56,454
But it should be,

1261
00:43:56,755 --> 00:43:58,355
it should be a regular check-in that you

1262
00:43:58,355 --> 00:44:00,755
have. The other thing I'd encourage is that

1263
00:44:00,755 --> 00:44:02,434
we ought to have great people in our

1264
00:44:02,434 --> 00:44:05,075
world, in our lives that can help remind

1265
00:44:05,075 --> 00:44:07,329
us of that. I've got two really great

1266
00:44:07,329 --> 00:44:09,589
counselors right now in my stake presidency, and

1267
00:44:09,809 --> 00:44:11,670
what I love about these men is they

1268
00:44:11,889 --> 00:44:14,690
consistently ask why. And they consistently just say,

1269
00:44:14,690 --> 00:44:16,289
like, why do we do this? Like, why

1270
00:44:16,289 --> 00:44:18,210
do we have this Bishop's training? Why do

1271
00:44:18,210 --> 00:44:20,389
we have this priesthood meeting? Why do we,

1272
00:44:20,605 --> 00:44:22,525
like, recently, we said, hey. You know, every

1273
00:44:22,525 --> 00:44:25,164
state conference that we've ever had has a

1274
00:44:25,164 --> 00:44:28,364
leadership session, an adult session, and a general

1275
00:44:28,364 --> 00:44:30,605
session. And one of my counselors said, here's

1276
00:44:30,605 --> 00:44:32,445
the idea. Why do we have an adult

1277
00:44:32,445 --> 00:44:35,059
session? Like why? And we're like, I don't

1278
00:44:35,059 --> 00:44:36,500
know. It's just what we've always done. He

1279
00:44:36,500 --> 00:44:38,099
said, here's an idea. Why don't we throw

1280
00:44:38,099 --> 00:44:38,760
that out?

1281
00:44:39,059 --> 00:44:40,739
Let's not have an adult session this time.

1282
00:44:40,739 --> 00:44:42,119
Let's have a youth session

1283
00:44:42,420 --> 00:44:42,920
instead.

1284
00:44:43,380 --> 00:44:44,980
And why are we even having a leadership

1285
00:44:44,980 --> 00:44:46,900
session? We just had our general authorities come

1286
00:44:46,900 --> 00:44:48,755
visit us six weeks ago and did a

1287
00:44:48,755 --> 00:44:50,554
lot of training from Elder Rasband. Why don't

1288
00:44:50,554 --> 00:44:52,875
we throw out the leadership session, give some

1289
00:44:52,875 --> 00:44:54,875
time back to the people, and let's just

1290
00:44:54,875 --> 00:44:57,275
have a youth session instead and go all

1291
00:44:57,275 --> 00:44:59,034
in on the youth? Well, as you can

1292
00:44:59,034 --> 00:44:59,534
imagine,

1293
00:44:59,914 --> 00:45:01,194
a lot of people loved it, a lot

1294
00:45:01,194 --> 00:45:02,795
of people didn't. Like some people were like,

1295
00:45:02,795 --> 00:45:04,980
'I love the adult session. It's my sacred

1296
00:45:04,980 --> 00:45:07,059
time to come and learn. And, like, well,

1297
00:45:07,059 --> 00:45:08,340
too bad. You'll have to wait for it

1298
00:45:08,340 --> 00:45:10,420
in six months. But the youth really loved

1299
00:45:10,420 --> 00:45:12,260
it. Man, they were like, really? We're getting

1300
00:45:12,260 --> 00:45:14,099
together on a Saturday night for an hour

1301
00:45:14,099 --> 00:45:15,699
and then we had an ice cream social

1302
00:45:15,699 --> 00:45:17,994
afterward? And I just think, man, I love

1303
00:45:17,994 --> 00:45:20,635
these counselors because they challenge the status quo.

1304
00:45:20,635 --> 00:45:21,914
I think we've got to have that curve.

1305
00:45:21,914 --> 00:45:23,195
We've got to have people in our life

1306
00:45:23,195 --> 00:45:25,614
that say, why are you doing that?

1307
00:45:26,474 --> 00:45:28,715
Why are you doing that job or that

1308
00:45:28,715 --> 00:45:30,989
career or that calling in that way? And

1309
00:45:31,150 --> 00:45:32,590
And when you surround yourself with those people,

1310
00:45:32,590 --> 00:45:34,530
they don't let you be comfortable very long.

1311
00:45:35,230 --> 00:45:37,650
Yeah. That's crucial. Like, this that community dynamic,

1312
00:45:37,710 --> 00:45:39,489
right, that purpose really thrives

1313
00:45:39,789 --> 00:45:41,469
when it's in community. And that I think

1314
00:45:41,469 --> 00:45:43,635
that's what we're striving to do with with

1315
00:45:43,635 --> 00:45:45,315
Zion Lab is, you know, it's an online

1316
00:45:45,315 --> 00:45:46,855
community. Like, we're trying

1317
00:45:47,315 --> 00:45:49,074
to create a place where people can go

1318
00:45:49,074 --> 00:45:51,155
and say, I have an idea, or what

1319
00:45:51,155 --> 00:45:53,795
have others tried here? Or and just it's

1320
00:45:53,795 --> 00:45:55,735
inspiring to see others care about

1321
00:45:56,099 --> 00:45:58,260
a purpose as much as you do. Right?

1322
00:45:58,260 --> 00:46:00,500
Like, oh, maybe because there are those days,

1323
00:46:00,500 --> 00:46:02,260
I think, in anybody's journey where you feel

1324
00:46:02,260 --> 00:46:04,739
like you were the the lone man on

1325
00:46:04,739 --> 00:46:05,320
the mountain.

1326
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:07,460
And it's up to you. Right? The I

1327
00:46:07,460 --> 00:46:09,300
guess the maroona, like, if you don't get

1328
00:46:09,300 --> 00:46:11,545
these plates to to the certain place to

1329
00:46:11,545 --> 00:46:14,505
bury them, you know, humanity is a barrel.

1330
00:46:14,505 --> 00:46:16,985
But but then so looking for that community

1331
00:46:16,985 --> 00:46:19,625
is crucial because in the crucible, there's there's

1332
00:46:19,625 --> 00:46:22,105
adversity, and there's so many moments where you

1333
00:46:22,105 --> 00:46:24,000
think, maybe I got it wrong. Maybe that's

1334
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,000
not my purpose. This is not fun. You

1335
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,400
know? We wanna give up. Yeah. You know,

1336
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:29,699
it's interesting. The savior

1337
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,160
two thoughts. The first one is that the

1338
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:32,660
savior

1339
00:46:33,199 --> 00:46:34,340
could have done it alone

1340
00:46:34,764 --> 00:46:36,764
for the his three year ministry. I mean,

1341
00:46:36,764 --> 00:46:38,684
there's probably nothing they said you have to

1342
00:46:38,684 --> 00:46:41,085
call 12 apostles and a group of disciples

1343
00:46:41,085 --> 00:46:42,304
around you, men and women.

1344
00:46:42,605 --> 00:46:45,005
He probably could have just come and served

1345
00:46:45,005 --> 00:46:46,465
and worked miracles and

1346
00:46:46,780 --> 00:46:49,820
yet he chose not to. He specifically chose

1347
00:46:49,820 --> 00:46:51,119
to surround himself

1348
00:46:51,660 --> 00:46:54,140
even in the darkest moments of Gethsemane with

1349
00:46:54,140 --> 00:46:54,640
people

1350
00:46:55,260 --> 00:46:55,760
who

1351
00:46:56,220 --> 00:46:58,460
loved him and who he trusted and could

1352
00:46:58,460 --> 00:47:01,014
support him and strengthen him. And so, I

1353
00:47:01,014 --> 00:47:02,934
just don't, I don't think we were intended

1354
00:47:02,934 --> 00:47:04,554
to go it alone in this life.

1355
00:47:04,934 --> 00:47:06,775
I mean, for sure, purpose is, is an

1356
00:47:06,775 --> 00:47:09,335
other focused thing. My second thought is about

1357
00:47:09,335 --> 00:47:11,655
ZineLab. You're right. I do love ZineLab. I

1358
00:47:11,655 --> 00:47:14,394
was, scoping it out earlier and I saw

1359
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,299
people questioning really awesome things. Like,

1360
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:20,319
why don't we more proactively share the length

1361
00:47:20,319 --> 00:47:21,059
of a calling?

1362
00:47:21,359 --> 00:47:23,039
Like, why do we kinda keep it cloak

1363
00:47:23,039 --> 00:47:24,960
and dagger and just say, yeah, you're gonna

1364
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,799
serve for a decade or whatever. Like, why

1365
00:47:26,799 --> 00:47:28,635
do we do that? And I thought, Man,

1366
00:47:28,635 --> 00:47:30,554
what a great question. Why do we do

1367
00:47:30,554 --> 00:47:32,875
that? And so I think Zine Lab is

1368
00:47:32,875 --> 00:47:34,815
great for that. I really do. Just a

1369
00:47:35,114 --> 00:47:36,554
shameless plug because I think it's a great

1370
00:47:36,554 --> 00:47:38,235
idea. I think it's a good place for

1371
00:47:38,235 --> 00:47:39,614
people of shared purpose

1372
00:47:40,170 --> 00:47:42,650
to go find others that are pressing forward

1373
00:47:42,650 --> 00:47:44,409
toward the same thing, and you've got to

1374
00:47:44,409 --> 00:47:47,130
have a community around you. Nobody does purpose

1375
00:47:47,130 --> 00:47:49,710
alone. Purpose is always other focused.

1376
00:47:50,170 --> 00:47:52,250
And, that was an important learning I I

1377
00:47:52,250 --> 00:47:54,250
learned from Angela Duckworth when I was reading

1378
00:47:54,250 --> 00:47:56,515
her her work on purpose as well, as

1379
00:47:56,515 --> 00:47:59,175
she said, purpose is always about other people.

1380
00:47:59,554 --> 00:48:01,235
If it's not about other people, it's a

1381
00:48:01,235 --> 00:48:03,074
goal, not a purpose. If you say, well,

1382
00:48:03,074 --> 00:48:05,315
I wanna become healthier, that's a goal. I

1383
00:48:05,315 --> 00:48:07,699
wanna run a mile, that's a goal. But

1384
00:48:07,699 --> 00:48:10,659
purpose is always other focused. If it's not,

1385
00:48:10,659 --> 00:48:11,639
then it lacks

1386
00:48:12,099 --> 00:48:14,900
motivation, it lacks power. And so, if you

1387
00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:17,299
gather your Relief Society or your elders quorum

1388
00:48:17,299 --> 00:48:18,920
and say, our purpose is to,

1389
00:48:19,299 --> 00:48:23,014
you know, put forward outstanding ministering numbers, that's

1390
00:48:23,014 --> 00:48:24,934
not gonna motivate. But if you say our

1391
00:48:24,934 --> 00:48:28,135
purpose is to bring, you know, five souls

1392
00:48:28,135 --> 00:48:28,795
to Christ,

1393
00:48:29,255 --> 00:48:31,974
then that's motivating and that becomes more purposeful

1394
00:48:31,974 --> 00:48:33,434
and not just a goal.

1395
00:48:33,734 --> 00:48:35,269
Yeah. And and you see that in life,

1396
00:48:35,269 --> 00:48:36,469
right, that I think is,

1397
00:48:36,949 --> 00:48:38,949
as we develop into adulthood, you know, you

1398
00:48:38,949 --> 00:48:40,309
sort of get you go I think we

1399
00:48:40,309 --> 00:48:41,750
all go through a phase of, like, I

1400
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:43,429
think I'm just gonna be rich. I think

1401
00:48:43,429 --> 00:48:45,190
that's what I'll do. You know? Like, what

1402
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:47,670
do I gotta do? What investment? What's hot?

1403
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:49,744
What, You know? And I go back in

1404
00:48:49,744 --> 00:48:52,385
time, like, obviously, running a nonprofit organization is

1405
00:48:52,385 --> 00:48:54,385
not a life of wealth. But,

1406
00:48:55,184 --> 00:48:56,545
but if I was to go back and

1407
00:48:56,545 --> 00:48:58,465
somebody would to give me, like, well, you

1408
00:48:58,465 --> 00:49:00,065
can go down this path and you'll make

1409
00:49:00,065 --> 00:49:02,070
a lot of money. But you'll go down

1410
00:49:02,070 --> 00:49:03,910
to go down this path and you'll love

1411
00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:06,630
Monday mornings. You'll love every day getting started

1412
00:49:06,630 --> 00:49:08,550
on the work you do. You'll see lives

1413
00:49:08,550 --> 00:49:10,470
change. You know, it's like, I don't care

1414
00:49:10,470 --> 00:49:12,150
how much you're paying me. Like, I want

1415
00:49:12,150 --> 00:49:13,670
I want a life of purpose because it

1416
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:15,994
is it's in our divine DNA, right? That

1417
00:49:15,994 --> 00:49:18,075
that's how God created us to be and

1418
00:49:18,075 --> 00:49:18,735
and thrive.

1419
00:49:19,035 --> 00:49:20,815
Totally. It absolutely is.

1420
00:49:21,115 --> 00:49:23,215
Is there anything that we we missed or

1421
00:49:23,275 --> 00:49:26,715
concept story or Yeah. Just maybe maybe two

1422
00:49:26,715 --> 00:49:29,440
final points here. The first one is that

1423
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:30,719
the leading about

1424
00:49:31,099 --> 00:49:34,400
leading with purpose should always be about pointing

1425
00:49:34,460 --> 00:49:35,599
people to the savior.

1426
00:49:35,900 --> 00:49:38,219
It's not about becoming the savior. It's about

1427
00:49:38,219 --> 00:49:40,460
pointing people to him. So I had a

1428
00:49:40,539 --> 00:49:42,380
an experience a number of years ago when

1429
00:49:42,380 --> 00:49:44,385
I was serving as a branch president in,

1430
00:49:44,785 --> 00:49:47,344
the Spanish branch. And, I was brand new

1431
00:49:47,344 --> 00:49:48,785
to this and I had not been a

1432
00:49:48,785 --> 00:49:51,344
bishop before. And so I was sitting down

1433
00:49:51,344 --> 00:49:53,105
and counseling with people that were going through

1434
00:49:53,105 --> 00:49:55,985
really difficult crucibles, just really challenging things in

1435
00:49:55,985 --> 00:49:58,589
their lives. And I felt completely helpless, like,

1436
00:49:58,589 --> 00:50:00,190
I just was like, who am I to

1437
00:50:00,190 --> 00:50:02,449
be helping these people with these incredibly complex

1438
00:50:03,150 --> 00:50:06,510
economic or financial or or familial challenges? Like,

1439
00:50:06,510 --> 00:50:08,269
how do I even do this? And I

1440
00:50:08,269 --> 00:50:09,869
battled this for like a year. Like, I

1441
00:50:09,869 --> 00:50:11,869
just was like, how do I help these

1442
00:50:11,869 --> 00:50:13,864
people? And one time I sat down with

1443
00:50:13,864 --> 00:50:15,784
our stake president at the time and he

1444
00:50:15,784 --> 00:50:17,464
could just tell that it was really weighing

1445
00:50:17,464 --> 00:50:20,025
me down. He said, Dustin, what's going on?

1446
00:50:20,025 --> 00:50:21,545
You know, how's it going as a branch

1447
00:50:21,545 --> 00:50:23,484
president? I said, it's really it's really hard.

1448
00:50:23,704 --> 00:50:25,304
I'm not enjoying this at all. And he

1449
00:50:25,304 --> 00:50:27,389
said, really tell me why? I said, How

1450
00:50:27,389 --> 00:50:29,069
am I supposed to help these people? They

1451
00:50:29,069 --> 00:50:31,469
come with these really difficult challenges and these

1452
00:50:31,469 --> 00:50:33,549
really difficult stresses in their life, and I

1453
00:50:33,549 --> 00:50:35,569
don't know what to do. And he said,

1454
00:50:35,789 --> 00:50:37,309
he said, You know what the problem is?

1455
00:50:37,309 --> 00:50:39,335
Is that you're trying to solve it. I

1456
00:50:39,335 --> 00:50:40,614
said, yeah, I'm trying to solve it. He

1457
00:50:40,614 --> 00:50:42,534
said, no, you didn't hear me. The problem

1458
00:50:42,534 --> 00:50:44,474
is that you are trying to solve it.

1459
00:50:44,614 --> 00:50:45,894
I said, what do you mean? I thought

1460
00:50:45,894 --> 00:50:47,335
that was my job. He said, no, no,

1461
00:50:47,335 --> 00:50:48,554
no. It's not your job.

1462
00:50:48,855 --> 00:50:52,139
It's the Savior's job. The Savior heals people.

1463
00:50:52,219 --> 00:50:54,139
He solves their problems. We don't solve their

1464
00:50:54,139 --> 00:50:56,480
problems. We point people to the savior.

1465
00:50:56,940 --> 00:50:58,619
He said the problem is that you're trying

1466
00:50:58,619 --> 00:51:00,299
to take the place of the savior and

1467
00:51:00,299 --> 00:51:02,059
solve people's problems, and it comes from a

1468
00:51:02,059 --> 00:51:04,219
good place. Like, your intentions are pure, but

1469
00:51:04,219 --> 00:51:05,579
you will never be able to do it.

1470
00:51:05,579 --> 00:51:07,464
You'll never be able to solve all the

1471
00:51:07,464 --> 00:51:09,484
challenges and trials and problems of your congregation.

1472
00:51:09,944 --> 00:51:11,385
What you need to do instead is to

1473
00:51:11,385 --> 00:51:14,344
point them to the savior, point them to

1474
00:51:14,344 --> 00:51:17,065
him, and that was an unlock in my

1475
00:51:17,065 --> 00:51:19,224
brain that I was like, wow, yeah, I've

1476
00:51:19,224 --> 00:51:21,329
been going this solo. When I think about

1477
00:51:21,329 --> 00:51:24,210
purpose and leading with purpose and award or

1478
00:51:24,210 --> 00:51:25,989
a stake or a calling,

1479
00:51:26,530 --> 00:51:28,530
the key is that we're pointing people back

1480
00:51:28,530 --> 00:51:29,349
to the savior,

1481
00:51:29,890 --> 00:51:31,890
not only to help reveal what the purpose

1482
00:51:31,890 --> 00:51:33,190
is, but to help people

1483
00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:36,070
heal and find strength and progress.

1484
00:51:36,744 --> 00:51:38,105
When I was set apart as a stake

1485
00:51:38,105 --> 00:51:40,525
president, I was set apart by Elder Nash,

1486
00:51:40,824 --> 00:51:42,684
who's now in the presidency of the 70

1487
00:51:42,744 --> 00:51:44,744
and just a really wise man. I mean,

1488
00:51:44,744 --> 00:51:46,184
I only got to interact with him for

1489
00:51:46,184 --> 00:51:47,784
a couple of days, but when he sat

1490
00:51:47,784 --> 00:51:50,360
down, he said, brother Peterson, we love that

1491
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,680
you're a leadership trainer and a leadership coach

1492
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:53,340
and consultant.

1493
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:55,660
We need you to leave all that behind.

1494
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,059
We don't need your leadership consulting here.

1495
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,059
What we need you to do instead

1496
00:52:00,519 --> 00:52:03,304
is point people to the savior and let

1497
00:52:03,304 --> 00:52:06,444
him lead. It's his stake. It's his work.

1498
00:52:06,664 --> 00:52:08,585
You're just an instrument in his hand. So

1499
00:52:08,585 --> 00:52:10,364
don't come in and start reorganizing

1500
00:52:10,905 --> 00:52:13,704
and, you know, making lots of changes and

1501
00:52:13,704 --> 00:52:16,069
and treating this like a merger and acquisition

1502
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:17,449
or a or a reorg.

1503
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:20,070
It's not that. Your job is simply to

1504
00:52:20,070 --> 00:52:21,670
point people to the savior and get out

1505
00:52:21,670 --> 00:52:22,949
of the way. And I thought that was

1506
00:52:22,949 --> 00:52:25,829
really, really wise advice and completely changed the

1507
00:52:25,829 --> 00:52:27,750
way that I would have approached this calling.

1508
00:52:27,750 --> 00:52:29,590
And I think we've always gotta point people

1509
00:52:29,590 --> 00:52:32,135
back to him. Love it. Sage advice for

1510
00:52:32,135 --> 00:52:34,375
sure. Any other point principle concept,

1511
00:52:35,014 --> 00:52:37,335
before we wrap up or do okay? Just,

1512
00:52:37,735 --> 00:52:39,414
just maybe the call to action would be

1513
00:52:39,414 --> 00:52:39,914
this.

1514
00:52:40,295 --> 00:52:42,074
If you're still with us on this podcast

1515
00:52:42,135 --> 00:52:44,954
episode today and saying, so now what?

1516
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:46,640
Let me give you a couple of now

1517
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:47,140
what's.

1518
00:52:47,519 --> 00:52:50,400
Number one is I challenge you to understand

1519
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,559
your why. What is your why in your

1520
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:54,500
calling? What is your why in your life?

1521
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:56,880
Like do the work to figure it out,

1522
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,200
put some words to it, and really make

1523
00:52:59,200 --> 00:52:59,860
it powerful.

1524
00:53:00,494 --> 00:53:02,914
Number two, help other people do the same.

1525
00:53:03,214 --> 00:53:05,234
Help people know their why.

1526
00:53:05,614 --> 00:53:07,694
Sit down with them, need any eye to

1527
00:53:07,694 --> 00:53:09,694
eye, asking them about their life and help

1528
00:53:09,694 --> 00:53:11,775
them understand their why and to find a

1529
00:53:11,775 --> 00:53:12,275
connection

1530
00:53:12,815 --> 00:53:14,829
to the calling that they're in. And then

1531
00:53:14,829 --> 00:53:17,789
number three would be, I challenge you to

1532
00:53:17,789 --> 00:53:19,170
give every assignment

1533
00:53:19,789 --> 00:53:21,569
and plan every program

1534
00:53:22,109 --> 00:53:23,409
through the lens of why.

1535
00:53:23,710 --> 00:53:25,309
When you sit down with somebody to give

1536
00:53:25,309 --> 00:53:25,969
a calling,

1537
00:53:26,445 --> 00:53:29,005
help them understand the bigger why. Don't just

1538
00:53:29,005 --> 00:53:30,684
say, we'd like you to serve as Young

1539
00:53:30,684 --> 00:53:31,425
Men's Advisor.

1540
00:53:31,805 --> 00:53:33,965
Tell them the story. We have a number

1541
00:53:33,965 --> 00:53:36,625
of young men who are drifting or struggling

1542
00:53:36,684 --> 00:53:39,505
or languishing right now and you have particular

1543
00:53:39,805 --> 00:53:40,864
talents and abilities

1544
00:53:41,409 --> 00:53:43,090
and God is calling you to this right

1545
00:53:43,090 --> 00:53:45,329
now to apply those to bring these souls

1546
00:53:45,329 --> 00:53:47,730
back to him. Help them understand the why.

1547
00:53:47,730 --> 00:53:49,110
If you're planning a program,

1548
00:53:49,650 --> 00:53:51,730
stop and ask why. Don't just do it

1549
00:53:51,730 --> 00:53:53,969
because it's what we do. Say why are

1550
00:53:53,969 --> 00:53:55,184
we doing this

1551
00:53:55,664 --> 00:53:57,184
And then lead with that why and help

1552
00:53:57,184 --> 00:53:58,565
other people understand it.

1553
00:53:58,864 --> 00:54:00,545
Understand your why, help other people do the

1554
00:54:00,545 --> 00:54:02,144
same, and do everything you do through the

1555
00:54:02,144 --> 00:54:03,285
lens of that purpose.

1556
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,559
That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints

1557
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:12,400
podcast. We'd love to hear from you about

1558
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:14,319
your questions or thoughts or comments. Go to

1559
00:54:14,319 --> 00:54:16,019
leadingsaints.org/contact

1560
00:54:16,159 --> 00:54:18,400
and send us your perspective or questions. If

1561
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,319
there's other episodes or topics you'd like to

1562
00:54:20,319 --> 00:54:22,159
hear on the Leading Saints podcast, go to

1563
00:54:22,159 --> 00:54:23,835
leadingsaints.org/contact

1564
00:54:23,994 --> 00:54:26,155
and share with us the information there. And

1565
00:54:26,155 --> 00:54:27,914
we would love for you to share this

1566
00:54:27,914 --> 00:54:30,155
with any individual you think this would apply

1567
00:54:30,155 --> 00:54:32,474
to, especially maybe individuals in your ward council

1568
00:54:32,474 --> 00:54:34,554
or other leaders that you may know who

1569
00:54:34,554 --> 00:54:37,135
would really appreciate the perspectives that we discussed.

1570
00:54:37,940 --> 00:54:40,339
And remember, head on over to Zion Lab

1571
00:54:40,339 --> 00:54:42,339
and ask a question, see what other questions

1572
00:54:42,339 --> 00:54:45,159
are being asked at leadingsaints.org/zion.

1573
00:54:54,755 --> 00:54:57,315
It came as a result of the position

1574
00:54:57,315 --> 00:55:00,375
of leadership which was imposed upon us

1575
00:55:00,755 --> 00:55:02,855
by the God of heaven who brought

1576
00:55:03,230 --> 00:55:06,530
forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus

1577
00:55:06,670 --> 00:55:07,170
Christ.

1578
00:55:07,710 --> 00:55:08,849
And when the declaration

1579
00:55:09,150 --> 00:55:12,429
was made concerning the only and only true

1580
00:55:12,429 --> 00:55:14,829
and living Church upon the face of the

1581
00:55:14,829 --> 00:55:15,284
earth,

1582
00:55:15,844 --> 00:55:18,505
We were immediately put in a position of

1583
00:55:18,644 --> 00:55:19,144
loneliness,

1584
00:55:19,525 --> 00:55:21,065
the loneliness of leadership

1585
00:55:21,764 --> 00:55:24,744
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,

1586
00:55:25,444 --> 00:55:27,924
and to which we must face up with

1587
00:55:27,924 --> 00:55:29,464
boldness and courage

1588
00:55:30,005 --> 00:55:30,744
and ability.