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Alright. Here's our goal, folks. Leading Saints is

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no longer a podcast. Well, obviously, we are

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a podcast. We will continue to podcast, but

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we're really shifting our focus over to Zion

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Lab, which is an online community

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put on and developed by leading saints.

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And this is where we want to go

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and gather the masses

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and share ideas about leadership, share ideas about

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different callings, share ideas about building Zion. And

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this is the place that we want to

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make online, where all things are discussed, great

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ideas are shared, and that we can help

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one another in whatever calling we're in or

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what calling we're not in to feel like,

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you know, I've got purpose here. I can

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really make a difference in shifting culture in

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a better way or developing Zion in my

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own corner of the kingdom. So join us

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over at Zion Lab at leadingsaints.org/zion.

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And there, you can just jump in. It's

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free to join and create a profile and

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jump in and and look around and answer

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some questions. Leave a comment, pose a question.

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I think you'll benefit from the things we're

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doing over at Zion Lab. So join us.

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Hey. If you're a newbie to Leading Saints,

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it's important that you know what is this

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Leading Saints thing. Well, Leading Saints is a

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nonprofit organization

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dedicated to helping Latter day Saints

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be better prepared to lead. And the way

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we do that is through content creation. So

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we have this phenomenal podcast. We have a

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newsletter. We have virtual conferences,

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so much more.

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Articles on our website. I mean, I could

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go on and on. Right? And we encourage

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you to, jump in, check out Leading Saints.

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Go to the search bar at leadingsaints.org

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and type in some topics and see what

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pops up. We're just glad you're here to

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join

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us. Our big question I get in the

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leading saints email is, Kirk, listen, great content,

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but how do you how do you motivate

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people? How do I get people to do

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something that I need them to do? Right?

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This is a pressure and attention that we

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often feel as church leaders, and the other

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side of that coin is accountability. Right? How

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do you hold somebody accountable, especially in a

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church context? Maybe in the, you know, secular

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world, you have bonuses and or I can

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fire you. But what about in the church

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context? And luckily, we have the expert in

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the Latter day Saint community. His name is

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Michael Timbs, and he's written books, done TED

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Talks. He goes around and consults with companies

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all about this concept of accountability.

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So I was more than excited to invite

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him into Zion Lab where we did a

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live stream in front of a live remote

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audience. We talked all things

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accountability and holding people accountable.

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And how do you do it in a

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church context, and what are the principles there,

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and what are good ways to do it,

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what are bad ways to do it. You're

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gonna love it. Here's my interview with Michael

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Timbs.

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Michael, maybe just give us a little background

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of who you are, where you live, and

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people ask what you do for a living.

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What do you tell them? Yeah. Sure. So

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my name is Michael Timms.

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Now I live in, Vernon, British Columbia, Canada.

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So

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for those of you who

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know that the world does not end

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above Washington state,

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so that's where I am is is above

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Washington state, probably closer to,

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above Spokane, I think. A couple hour drive

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above, North of Spokane. So when I when

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people ask me what I do, I say

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that I teach executive teams how to

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create high performance teams.

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And, step one is really about improving their

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leadership.

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Yeah. And you, you have a book that's

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called how leaders can inspire accountability,

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three habits that make or break leaders and

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elevate organizational

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performance. And this, I mean, accountability is can

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turn into a buzzword a little bit, maybe

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in the more professional world, but it has

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an interesting relationship with a faith experience, especially

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our faith experience. We believe in accountability. We

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believe in a judgment day. You know, we

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believe in in, you know, owning up to

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covenants that we've made and so forth.

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Do you see any differently in the faith

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context? I think that my background

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in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter

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day Saints has really helped me understand accountability

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in a way that is not really I

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think it's given me an advantage

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to being a a thought leader around accountability.

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And I think it was the the young

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woman's one of the young woman's

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values

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is,

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is a faith and accountability or, no choice

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and accountability. Mhmm. I think that's a lot

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of times the,

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people don't understand that there's there's two sides

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to that coin

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and that, that we have to be accountable

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for our actions.

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And anyways, I think that's helped me. But

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in a faith context, it was kind of

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interesting.

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So shortly so I I have a TED

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talk that was published about a year and

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a half ago

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that became quite popular

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called How to Claim Your Leadership Power.

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And shortly after that was published,

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I was sitting

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on the stand

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with the,

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with the state president and he leaned over

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and he's like, So,

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so Michael, so

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how can I hold people accountable

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in the church, right, to completing their assignments?

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I said, well, the problem is is with

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a a group of volunteers,

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like, you can't enforce any consequences so you

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really can't hold people accountable.

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And sort of be before I finished he

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kinda threw up his hands kinda jokingly. He's

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like, alright. Well, Michael Tim says that, you

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can't hold people in the church accountable so

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I guess there's there's no hope.

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And I I think that what we're gonna

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be exploring today is we'll be talking about

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not how to hold people accountable, but there

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are a number of things that you can

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do to support people to be accountable and

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support people to get the right results

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without going to consequences because really there are

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no consequences. In fact, the only consequence that

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you could enforce

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is to be released which I think most

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people would be like sweet. Like if that's

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all you gotta do to get released. Right?

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Yeah. And so where's a good launching off

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point to understanding this? Because it does seem

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like I need a lever to hold someone

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accountable. Right? A a consequence

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that I can sort of dangle over their

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head like, hey, you know, or even a

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guilt trip. Right? Like, I don't know. Have

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you considered the eternities of your soul? And

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if you don't, you know, fulfill this, ministering

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assignment,

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you know, I'm just saying, may maybe it

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won't end well for you. But Right. Where's

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a good launching out point? Well, I think

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your I think your initial question around, you

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know, what is accountability

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and, you know, how does it work in

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a in a faith context, I think we

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have to first understand what accountability is. And

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the way that I define accountability

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is

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accountability is taking ownership

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of results

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and focusing on what you can do

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to achieve the right results.

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And so there's kind of two parts there.

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One is owning results

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and the other part is focusing on what

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you

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can do

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to achieve

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the right results.

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And I think that one of the so

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that's the way I define accountability. I think

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the problem is is that I think a

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lot of society has has really sort of

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misused that word and created something out of

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that word that it is not. Accountability or

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results?

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Accountability.

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Okay. And I think a lot of people

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use the term accountability as like okay, we

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we gotta hold this person accountable or you

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know, you'll read in the newspaper

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or or nobody reads the newspaper. You'll see

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in the news you know, that CEO must

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be held accountable. When really what they're talking

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about is that, you know, that CEO is

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to blame and they need to be punished.

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And so I think society has used has

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misused

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that word accountability and and used it as

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a euphemism for blame and punishment which is

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typically what they're what they're really talking about.

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But that's not what accountability is about. It's

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about owning results. It's it's about something that

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you do. Right? It's me. I'm I'm gonna

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take ownership of results. And in fact, blaming

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other people for problems is the exact opposite

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of accountability. Right? So when we're trying to,

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you know, say trying to hold people accountable

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when things aren't going well, typically that's us

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not owning our part of the problem. Right?

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So I think the key thing is to

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understand that

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accountability

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yeah. So consequences

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are a small

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part of accountability

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but really it's about how can we support

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other people to

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own their results good or bad.

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We all need help to remain accountable. I

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need help. I think most people need help.

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And so I think as our our job

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and as as leaders in the church

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are to support

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people to want to to get the right

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results. And I think most people I think

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most people want to feel like they're, you

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know, that they're first of all, in a

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work context that they're coming to work ever.

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I think most people want to feel successful

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in a work context. Right. I think the

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same is true in a church context. I

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think most people want to feel that they

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are fulfilling their responsibilities at church

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and people feel bad if they're not. And

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so our job is to support people and

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help them to be accountable.

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Yeah. And I guess the other, you know,

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in your definition that that other word of

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results kinda jumps out at me in a

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faith context where I'm like,

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like, are we going to church

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to produce results? Like, obviously, in a boardroom,

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that makes sense or, you know, when you're

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watching the bottom line of your balance sheet

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or whatever.

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But in the context of church, that's where

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it's like where a leader can feel more

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pressure of getting results because it's sort of

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attached to his ego. Right? He was asked

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to serve in this role. And if those

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numbers, you know, the key indicators don't take

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up or that may be a problem. And

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so is there more to consider just around

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that concept of results when we think about

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accountability? Yeah. For sure. And I I think

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that I think people have when they think

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about results, they think of some sort of

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numeric

270
00:09:29,450 --> 00:09:32,009
quantifiable thing. And I think ideally, you can

271
00:09:32,009 --> 00:09:33,309
quantify results,

272
00:09:33,665 --> 00:09:35,184
but a lot of times you can't. And

273
00:09:35,184 --> 00:09:36,965
I think in a faith context,

274
00:09:37,425 --> 00:09:39,585
you know, the results ideally that the the

275
00:09:39,585 --> 00:09:41,504
key result that we're after is bringing people

276
00:09:41,504 --> 00:09:43,665
closer to Christ. Right? That is the number

277
00:09:43,665 --> 00:09:45,779
one key result that we're after. Now that's

278
00:09:45,940 --> 00:09:47,940
kinda hard to quantify and so we'll wanna

279
00:09:47,940 --> 00:09:50,259
think about that. In a youth context, right,

280
00:09:50,259 --> 00:09:52,420
if I'm a youth leader, are they building

281
00:09:52,420 --> 00:09:53,160
their testimonies?

282
00:09:53,620 --> 00:09:55,800
So another key result is are we preparing

283
00:09:55,860 --> 00:09:57,940
our youth for missions? Are we preparing them

284
00:09:57,940 --> 00:09:59,620
with life skills? Are we preparing them with

285
00:09:59,620 --> 00:10:02,565
vocational skills? You know? Are we preparing them

286
00:10:02,565 --> 00:10:04,105
to lead in the church?

287
00:10:04,725 --> 00:10:05,384
And so

288
00:10:05,764 --> 00:10:07,524
I think and some of the results are

289
00:10:07,524 --> 00:10:09,285
how do I feel about coming to church?

290
00:10:09,285 --> 00:10:11,365
Right? Do I feel like coming to church

291
00:10:11,365 --> 00:10:13,600
is bringing me closer to Christ? To be

292
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:14,879
honest, I think you could actually and I

293
00:10:14,879 --> 00:10:15,919
don't know that a lot of people do

294
00:10:15,919 --> 00:10:17,200
this but heck you could do this in

295
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,360
a survey. Right? I think that that that

296
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:20,259
a relief society

297
00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:22,660
class, I think an elders quorum,

298
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,480
I think you can do a survey and

299
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:25,759
say, you know what? We're gonna do a

300
00:10:25,759 --> 00:10:27,225
quarterly survey and say, how do feel? Like,

301
00:10:27,225 --> 00:10:28,664
or do you feel like your testimony is

302
00:10:28,664 --> 00:10:29,404
being strengthened

303
00:10:29,784 --> 00:10:32,105
over the last quarter? You think you're coming

304
00:10:32,105 --> 00:10:33,945
closer to Christ? You know, what would you

305
00:10:33,945 --> 00:10:35,784
like to do to come closer to Christ,

306
00:10:35,784 --> 00:10:37,704
to strengthen your testimony, whatever those key results

307
00:10:37,704 --> 00:10:39,144
are? But I I guess that's a long

308
00:10:39,144 --> 00:10:41,360
way of saying that results are not necessarily

309
00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,179
those narrowly defined things that are easily quantifiable.

310
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:45,600
There's a lot of things that are not

311
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:46,100
quantifiable

312
00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,240
and I think it's we just need to

313
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,399
get some feedback on those things. Yeah. So

314
00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:52,799
when you walk into a typical organization who's

315
00:10:52,799 --> 00:10:55,044
maybe hired you, like, is there a place

316
00:10:55,044 --> 00:10:56,504
to start? Because I mean accountability

317
00:10:57,125 --> 00:10:58,245
I feel like you have to sort of

318
00:10:58,245 --> 00:10:59,284
build up to it. You can't just say

319
00:10:59,284 --> 00:11:01,365
we're now an accountable organization and we'll be

320
00:11:01,365 --> 00:11:03,445
holding everybody accountable or, you know, like, what

321
00:11:03,445 --> 00:11:05,204
do you see when you typically walk into

322
00:11:05,204 --> 00:11:05,865
an organization?

323
00:11:06,459 --> 00:11:09,279
Well, when I walk into an organization, fortunately,

324
00:11:09,339 --> 00:11:12,299
I I have the advantage of honestly, I

325
00:11:12,299 --> 00:11:13,759
don't have any crappy clients.

326
00:11:14,139 --> 00:11:15,740
Like like the only people that call me

327
00:11:15,740 --> 00:11:17,659
up to help to look for help are

328
00:11:17,659 --> 00:11:19,884
people who are already sort of on the

329
00:11:19,884 --> 00:11:21,884
leadership journey themselves and they want to make

330
00:11:21,884 --> 00:11:23,504
their organization even better.

331
00:11:23,884 --> 00:11:24,625
And so

332
00:11:25,004 --> 00:11:26,845
I have that advantage but so there are

333
00:11:26,845 --> 00:11:28,924
no broken organization. I typically do not have

334
00:11:28,924 --> 00:11:30,764
any clients that are, like, totally broken. Right?

335
00:11:30,764 --> 00:11:31,985
They just wanna be better.

336
00:11:32,289 --> 00:11:34,690
Where we start is I think where you

337
00:11:34,690 --> 00:11:37,330
and I started which is defining accountability and

338
00:11:37,330 --> 00:11:39,649
and look accountability is not a bad a

339
00:11:39,649 --> 00:11:41,809
bad word the way that society has been

340
00:11:41,809 --> 00:11:44,289
using it. And look, if we want people

341
00:11:44,289 --> 00:11:46,129
to be more accountable, we better make sure

342
00:11:46,129 --> 00:11:48,205
that they don't fear that word. And so

343
00:11:48,205 --> 00:11:49,485
it's it's getting on the same page as

344
00:11:49,485 --> 00:11:52,125
far as, you know, what accountability is and

345
00:11:52,125 --> 00:11:52,625
then

346
00:11:53,004 --> 00:11:56,365
really building it building an an organization. And

347
00:11:56,365 --> 00:11:58,365
again, what accountability is is it pretty much

348
00:11:58,365 --> 00:12:00,250
boils down to getting the right results. And

349
00:12:00,250 --> 00:12:02,009
if we don't get the right results, it's

350
00:12:02,009 --> 00:12:03,769
working towards how do we get the right

351
00:12:03,769 --> 00:12:06,250
results next time. That's really what accountability boils

352
00:12:06,250 --> 00:12:07,629
down to. And

353
00:12:07,930 --> 00:12:09,070
the key factor

354
00:12:09,450 --> 00:12:10,509
in any organization,

355
00:12:10,970 --> 00:12:11,950
whether it be

356
00:12:12,294 --> 00:12:14,294
a for profit organization, a non for profit

357
00:12:14,294 --> 00:12:15,835
organization, a faith organization,

358
00:12:16,455 --> 00:12:17,355
the key driver

359
00:12:17,654 --> 00:12:19,274
of accountability in the organization

360
00:12:19,654 --> 00:12:22,375
is the behavior of its leader or leaders

361
00:12:22,375 --> 00:12:25,195
plural. And if they're not owning problems,

362
00:12:25,815 --> 00:12:27,659
then nobody else will.

363
00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:29,839
A long time ago, I was in a

364
00:12:29,899 --> 00:12:30,799
award council

365
00:12:31,419 --> 00:12:31,919
where

366
00:12:32,379 --> 00:12:34,720
we had a pretty intense bishop and he,

367
00:12:35,179 --> 00:12:35,759
you know,

368
00:12:36,059 --> 00:12:37,819
he called out, actually, it was the young

369
00:12:37,819 --> 00:12:40,634
men's young men's president in the ward council

370
00:12:40,875 --> 00:12:43,514
for not, you know, doing something. And the

371
00:12:43,514 --> 00:12:44,495
young men's leader,

372
00:12:44,875 --> 00:12:46,794
he said, you know what? We can do

373
00:12:46,794 --> 00:12:48,554
better. You know what? There are things for

374
00:12:48,554 --> 00:12:50,955
sure that we can do better. And, just

375
00:12:50,955 --> 00:12:51,455
totally

376
00:12:52,154 --> 00:12:55,620
responded in such an accountable way that everybody

377
00:12:55,620 --> 00:12:57,139
in that room first of all was a

378
00:12:57,139 --> 00:12:59,300
little shocked at the way the bishop handled

379
00:12:59,300 --> 00:13:01,720
that. And our respect for that individual

380
00:13:02,179 --> 00:13:04,179
really shot up, who totally owned it and

381
00:13:04,179 --> 00:13:05,540
said, yeah, you know what? We can do

382
00:13:05,540 --> 00:13:08,294
better. And I think, you know what? What

383
00:13:08,294 --> 00:13:09,894
should be happening is the other other way

384
00:13:09,894 --> 00:13:10,394
around.

385
00:13:10,934 --> 00:13:13,174
And, you know, in a word council, if

386
00:13:13,174 --> 00:13:15,014
we're not getting the right results, if, you

387
00:13:15,014 --> 00:13:17,654
know, we're not getting people to the temple,

388
00:13:17,654 --> 00:13:20,455
if we're not achieving our baptisms, if, you

389
00:13:20,455 --> 00:13:21,995
know, whatever, I think the

390
00:13:22,350 --> 00:13:24,909
accountability starts with the bishop saying, Hey, I

391
00:13:24,909 --> 00:13:25,730
need your

392
00:13:26,110 --> 00:13:27,549
your thoughts on this. I need your perspective.

393
00:13:27,549 --> 00:13:28,990
I need your advice. What can I do

394
00:13:28,990 --> 00:13:29,490
differently

395
00:13:30,110 --> 00:13:31,169
to make it easier

396
00:13:31,549 --> 00:13:33,570
for all of us to get the results

397
00:13:33,789 --> 00:13:35,445
that we need to get? And so that

398
00:13:35,445 --> 00:13:37,365
is the first step when I work with

399
00:13:37,365 --> 00:13:37,865
organizations

400
00:13:38,644 --> 00:13:42,485
is ensuring that that leaders are taking those

401
00:13:42,485 --> 00:13:44,644
first steps and and modeling accountability. And that's

402
00:13:44,644 --> 00:13:46,805
really what my TED talk is all about

403
00:13:46,805 --> 00:13:48,264
is there's kind of three

404
00:13:48,639 --> 00:13:50,820
key behaviors to model accountability.

405
00:13:51,519 --> 00:13:53,600
And I'm going to assume that I think

406
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,440
members of the church already have leaders of

407
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,039
the church already have an advantage and hopefully

408
00:13:57,039 --> 00:13:59,519
they already are modeling accountability. Hopefully they are

409
00:13:59,519 --> 00:14:02,000
not blaming. Hopefully they are they are looking

410
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,019
in the mirror and owning problems.

411
00:14:04,585 --> 00:14:06,264
So the things that I wanted to share

412
00:14:06,264 --> 00:14:09,164
with you today are probably some more tactical

413
00:14:09,225 --> 00:14:09,725
things

414
00:14:10,105 --> 00:14:11,705
that whether it's a bishop, whether it's an

415
00:14:11,705 --> 00:14:14,504
elders' court president, Relief Society president, anybody in

416
00:14:14,504 --> 00:14:16,605
a leadership position can do

417
00:14:16,985 --> 00:14:18,125
to support

418
00:14:18,549 --> 00:14:19,290
their teams

419
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:21,910
to get the right results. Yeah. And I

420
00:14:21,910 --> 00:14:24,470
appreciate that just, you know, for a leader

421
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:26,549
to take the steps to own or be

422
00:14:26,549 --> 00:14:28,549
self aware enough to say, what am I

423
00:14:28,549 --> 00:14:31,184
missing? Like, how can I help you help

424
00:14:31,184 --> 00:14:31,924
the organization

425
00:14:32,304 --> 00:14:33,825
as a whole? Is there anything I'm doing

426
00:14:33,825 --> 00:14:35,585
that's standing in your way and being reflective

427
00:14:35,585 --> 00:14:37,585
on that? Is there any other, like, approaches

428
00:14:37,585 --> 00:14:39,024
that you'd recommend as far as for a

429
00:14:39,024 --> 00:14:41,184
leader to just own up to the problem

430
00:14:41,184 --> 00:14:42,644
or to being more accountable?

431
00:14:43,024 --> 00:14:45,125
I think a lot of times, you know,

432
00:14:45,490 --> 00:14:47,250
it's kind of interesting. One of,

433
00:14:48,049 --> 00:14:49,809
so one of the first things we do

434
00:14:49,809 --> 00:14:51,730
when we when we start working with an

435
00:14:51,730 --> 00:14:54,450
organization is we do a three sixty degree

436
00:14:54,450 --> 00:14:56,470
assessment. And so we have a a database

437
00:14:56,690 --> 00:14:59,429
full of responses to our three sixty assessment

438
00:14:59,570 --> 00:15:00,549
tool. And

439
00:15:00,924 --> 00:15:03,404
doesn't matter what the organization does, you know,

440
00:15:03,404 --> 00:15:06,465
what field they're they're in, but almost always

441
00:15:06,764 --> 00:15:09,904
as an organization, their lowest score is around

442
00:15:09,965 --> 00:15:10,945
requesting feedback.

443
00:15:11,404 --> 00:15:12,924
And I would say the true is in

444
00:15:13,165 --> 00:15:14,764
or the the same is true in the

445
00:15:14,764 --> 00:15:16,440
church. I think that we

446
00:15:16,980 --> 00:15:19,559
just don't ask for feedback enough.

447
00:15:20,019 --> 00:15:20,519
And

448
00:15:20,820 --> 00:15:22,899
if you do ask people how you can

449
00:15:22,899 --> 00:15:25,459
do better, they'll tell you. Right? You know,

450
00:15:25,459 --> 00:15:27,539
and if you sincerely ask, you know, what

451
00:15:27,539 --> 00:15:28,820
can I do to to make it easier

452
00:15:28,820 --> 00:15:30,164
for you to get the right results? How

453
00:15:30,164 --> 00:15:32,725
can I support you better to achieve the

454
00:15:32,725 --> 00:15:33,625
results that we're

455
00:15:34,004 --> 00:15:35,445
after? They'll tell you. Right? If you give

456
00:15:35,445 --> 00:15:37,205
them some time to think about it and

457
00:15:37,205 --> 00:15:39,605
that's why it's so powerful. It's also really

458
00:15:39,605 --> 00:15:40,105
powerful

459
00:15:40,644 --> 00:15:43,439
because you're also signaling that this is a

460
00:15:43,439 --> 00:15:45,519
a feedback this is a culture of feedback

461
00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:47,459
that we want. This is a highly accountable

462
00:15:47,839 --> 00:15:49,779
culture and nobody's ego

463
00:15:50,319 --> 00:15:50,980
is above

464
00:15:51,679 --> 00:15:53,839
getting the results that we as an organization,

465
00:15:53,839 --> 00:15:55,439
as a ward council have said that that

466
00:15:55,439 --> 00:15:57,504
we want to achieve. So, yeah, I think

467
00:15:57,504 --> 00:15:58,884
that's a key

468
00:15:59,345 --> 00:15:59,845
behavior

469
00:16:00,304 --> 00:16:03,264
that drives accountability in the organization is number

470
00:16:03,264 --> 00:16:05,985
one, requesting feedback and requesting feedback in the

471
00:16:05,985 --> 00:16:08,945
right way. Yeah. That's really powerful. And you

472
00:16:08,945 --> 00:16:11,490
mentioned they're like, you know, coming, you know,

473
00:16:11,490 --> 00:16:13,970
no egos, you know, too big for the

474
00:16:13,970 --> 00:16:17,490
the results that the ward council organization has

475
00:16:17,490 --> 00:16:19,490
determined or that they wanna go towards. I

476
00:16:19,490 --> 00:16:21,830
guess my question is sometimes I would imagine

477
00:16:22,210 --> 00:16:24,529
the ward council or even the bishopric has

478
00:16:24,529 --> 00:16:25,029
certain

479
00:16:25,475 --> 00:16:28,134
results or goals in mind. And

480
00:16:28,595 --> 00:16:30,915
the tough part of holding people accountable is

481
00:16:30,915 --> 00:16:33,154
that maybe the rest of the ward never

482
00:16:33,154 --> 00:16:33,975
felt like

483
00:16:34,355 --> 00:16:36,995
they voted in those results or wanted those

484
00:16:36,995 --> 00:16:37,495
results,

485
00:16:37,820 --> 00:16:39,500
And so they never bought into them. And

486
00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:41,740
so then they're being held accountable for something

487
00:16:41,740 --> 00:16:44,139
that they never ultimately agreed to other than

488
00:16:44,139 --> 00:16:46,220
sort of this general cultural norms of, like,

489
00:16:46,220 --> 00:16:47,659
these are the things we do. And if

490
00:16:47,659 --> 00:16:49,019
you, you know, if you don't do them,

491
00:16:49,019 --> 00:16:50,539
then we're not getting our results type of

492
00:16:50,539 --> 00:16:52,764
thing. So I'm just curious, like, how important

493
00:16:53,144 --> 00:16:55,785
is that result dynamic of, like, agreeing on

494
00:16:55,785 --> 00:16:57,544
the results so that you can even or

495
00:16:57,544 --> 00:16:59,304
the expectation. Right? So that you can hold

496
00:16:59,304 --> 00:17:00,764
people accountable to the expectation.

497
00:17:01,304 --> 00:17:03,144
So that's exactly right. Yeah. And and that's,

498
00:17:03,384 --> 00:17:04,765
that is the first step

499
00:17:05,210 --> 00:17:07,609
in getting the right results is being clear

500
00:17:07,609 --> 00:17:09,930
on what those results are and getting feedback

501
00:17:09,930 --> 00:17:11,849
and and agreeing on those results together. And

502
00:17:11,849 --> 00:17:13,769
so so to your audience, Kurt and I

503
00:17:13,769 --> 00:17:15,930
did not rehearse this. This is this he

504
00:17:15,930 --> 00:17:17,865
just intuitively knows. And I think a lot

505
00:17:17,865 --> 00:17:20,345
of people intuitively know that, you know, if

506
00:17:20,345 --> 00:17:21,625
we wanna get the right results, we gotta

507
00:17:21,625 --> 00:17:23,184
agree on what those are. And I think

508
00:17:23,305 --> 00:17:25,224
so that's my point. That's the first step.

509
00:17:25,224 --> 00:17:26,664
So I'd say there's two things. There's two

510
00:17:26,664 --> 00:17:28,345
components that you need to agree on right

511
00:17:28,345 --> 00:17:30,065
off the bat. Whether you're a bishop or

512
00:17:30,065 --> 00:17:32,529
a Relief Society president and women's president, when

513
00:17:32,529 --> 00:17:34,609
you're meeting either with a board council or

514
00:17:34,609 --> 00:17:36,069
with your presidency

515
00:17:36,450 --> 00:17:38,130
or with your class or quorum, whatever it

516
00:17:38,130 --> 00:17:39,970
is, the first things you got to agree

517
00:17:39,970 --> 00:17:42,309
on are what's the purpose of our organization?

518
00:17:42,769 --> 00:17:44,769
Yeah. What are we striving to achieve? What

519
00:17:44,769 --> 00:17:46,789
are the key outcomes that we're looking for?

520
00:17:47,015 --> 00:17:49,095
And to get their feedback on that and

521
00:17:49,095 --> 00:17:51,914
to agree on that. So that's step one.

522
00:17:51,975 --> 00:17:54,455
Step two is also Go ahead. Maybe answered

523
00:17:54,455 --> 00:17:56,535
there like I'm just guessing, like, if we

524
00:17:56,535 --> 00:17:58,295
had the time and space to ask a

525
00:17:58,295 --> 00:18:00,615
100 wards, what's our purpose here as a

526
00:18:00,615 --> 00:18:02,159
ward? I think all of us are gonna

527
00:18:02,159 --> 00:18:04,240
default to bringing people into Christ. Right? And

528
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,399
it's sort of like it's almost become this

529
00:18:06,399 --> 00:18:06,899
overused

530
00:18:07,519 --> 00:18:09,279
latitude that it's like, what does that even

531
00:18:09,279 --> 00:18:11,039
mean? Like, how do we know when we

532
00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:13,139
arrive there? Right? So is there importance of

533
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,299
of not only agreeing on it, but actually,

534
00:18:15,684 --> 00:18:17,845
you know, articulating what it looks like at

535
00:18:17,845 --> 00:18:20,005
the end of it? Or Yeah. Exactly. And

536
00:18:20,005 --> 00:18:21,924
and I think obviously we gotta dig deeper

537
00:18:21,924 --> 00:18:23,845
and I think maybe that's our overarching goal.

538
00:18:23,845 --> 00:18:25,445
Maybe we have a goal statement and every

539
00:18:25,445 --> 00:18:27,125
every organization would have the same goal statement

540
00:18:27,125 --> 00:18:29,210
which is bringing people under Christ. Right? But

541
00:18:29,210 --> 00:18:30,970
each organization is gonna have different things, right?

542
00:18:30,970 --> 00:18:33,369
The elders quorum is gonna have, you know,

543
00:18:33,369 --> 00:18:36,490
different goals than a young women's class and

544
00:18:36,490 --> 00:18:37,710
a young women's organization.

545
00:18:38,170 --> 00:18:39,849
And I think the thing is is, you

546
00:18:39,849 --> 00:18:41,450
know, for the young women's leaders like, hey,

547
00:18:41,450 --> 00:18:43,105
what do we want, you know, when and

548
00:18:43,105 --> 00:18:45,664
maybe a helpful exercise is to say, you

549
00:18:45,664 --> 00:18:47,184
know, a year from now, two years from

550
00:18:47,184 --> 00:18:50,144
now, what do we want the girls to

551
00:18:50,144 --> 00:18:51,904
be able to do and what do we

552
00:18:51,904 --> 00:18:53,684
want the girls to be feeling

553
00:18:53,984 --> 00:18:54,484
differently

554
00:18:55,150 --> 00:18:57,710
than they feel now? And I think that's

555
00:18:58,109 --> 00:18:58,929
so it's

556
00:18:59,230 --> 00:19:00,750
what skills can we give the young women,

557
00:19:00,750 --> 00:19:02,509
what do we want them to feel, and

558
00:19:02,509 --> 00:19:03,789
what do we want them to have? What

559
00:19:03,789 --> 00:19:05,470
kind of relationships do we want them to

560
00:19:05,470 --> 00:19:07,410
have with their class members?

561
00:19:07,785 --> 00:19:09,484
Right? So I think those are the results

562
00:19:09,625 --> 00:19:12,184
that we're after. Overarching theme brings souls to

563
00:19:12,184 --> 00:19:15,085
Christ, but under that each class, each quorum

564
00:19:15,305 --> 00:19:17,945
should have different key results. And I wouldn't

565
00:19:17,945 --> 00:19:19,785
I wouldn't have a laundry list. I think

566
00:19:19,785 --> 00:19:22,259
pretty much you're looking for three or four

567
00:19:22,259 --> 00:19:24,180
key things that you wanna be able to

568
00:19:24,180 --> 00:19:24,680
achieve

569
00:19:24,980 --> 00:19:27,140
in the lives of the people that you

570
00:19:27,140 --> 00:19:29,539
have stewardship for. Yeah. Yeah. That's really helpful.

571
00:19:29,539 --> 00:19:31,700
And I think, I mean, three fourths of

572
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:34,119
the battle is even just having that conversation.

573
00:19:34,180 --> 00:19:35,779
I think a lot of organizations in the

574
00:19:35,779 --> 00:19:37,464
church, they don't even they make a lot

575
00:19:37,464 --> 00:19:39,065
of assumptions of, like, Google, of course, we're

576
00:19:39,065 --> 00:19:40,585
on the same page. You really haven't taken

577
00:19:40,585 --> 00:19:42,024
that time to say, alright. What are we

578
00:19:42,024 --> 00:19:43,625
doing here? Like, what is the result we're

579
00:19:43,625 --> 00:19:45,224
aiming for? Does it look different in our

580
00:19:45,224 --> 00:19:47,704
area? You know, what does the handbook say?

581
00:19:47,704 --> 00:19:49,704
Or how would we adapt that to our

582
00:19:49,704 --> 00:19:52,679
ward specifically? Or, you know, is it all

583
00:19:52,679 --> 00:19:53,500
about ordinances

584
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,279
or is that maybe a secondary thing or

585
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:57,880
I don't know. You know? But just having

586
00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:58,539
the conversation,

587
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,159
which I think a lot of wards or

588
00:20:01,159 --> 00:20:03,319
organizations don't even take that step. Right? No.

589
00:20:03,319 --> 00:20:04,759
Exactly. And as a matter of fact, I,

590
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:05,899
I was in a bishopric,

591
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:06,700
and

592
00:20:07,045 --> 00:20:08,325
it was a brand new bishopric and I

593
00:20:08,325 --> 00:20:09,845
was a counselor in the bishopric and we

594
00:20:09,845 --> 00:20:12,724
were our first ward council, the bishop is

595
00:20:12,724 --> 00:20:14,744
an I mean, he's an awesome guy. He's,

596
00:20:15,285 --> 00:20:18,005
love the guy. He has a a leader.

597
00:20:18,005 --> 00:20:20,244
He, you know, professionally, he's a leader in

598
00:20:20,244 --> 00:20:21,305
a kind of an administrative

599
00:20:21,684 --> 00:20:22,184
role.

600
00:20:22,539 --> 00:20:24,559
But we sat down and the first things

601
00:20:24,779 --> 00:20:26,460
like he just like got right down to

602
00:20:26,460 --> 00:20:29,339
business. Okay, let's just talk about there was

603
00:20:29,339 --> 00:20:31,579
even no acknowledgment that, hey, we are a

604
00:20:31,579 --> 00:20:33,580
new bishopric. This is a you know, and

605
00:20:33,580 --> 00:20:35,019
a lot of the ward council members were

606
00:20:35,019 --> 00:20:37,339
the same, but there's no acknowledgment of, hey,

607
00:20:37,339 --> 00:20:39,234
this is something new. Maybe we should talk

608
00:20:39,234 --> 00:20:40,694
about what is our purpose together

609
00:20:40,994 --> 00:20:42,595
and how we wanna work together. As a

610
00:20:42,595 --> 00:20:44,674
matter of fact, that's actually kind of the

611
00:20:44,674 --> 00:20:46,194
other thing that I wanted to mention is

612
00:20:46,194 --> 00:20:48,115
that as an organization, if you're a leader

613
00:20:48,115 --> 00:20:48,934
in the church,

614
00:20:49,234 --> 00:20:50,595
the first thing you you do need to

615
00:20:50,595 --> 00:20:52,194
do as Kirk pointed out is talk about

616
00:20:52,194 --> 00:20:53,619
what are the key results that we're after,

617
00:20:53,619 --> 00:20:55,059
right? Drill down as as we talked about.

618
00:20:55,059 --> 00:20:56,179
But the next thing you want to talk

619
00:20:56,179 --> 00:20:56,679
about

620
00:20:57,539 --> 00:20:59,859
is our expectations of one another. And that's

621
00:20:59,859 --> 00:21:02,759
my second tip for your listeners

622
00:21:03,140 --> 00:21:03,640
is

623
00:21:04,019 --> 00:21:06,759
what are we expecting from each other?

624
00:21:07,125 --> 00:21:07,684
Just a,

625
00:21:08,164 --> 00:21:10,805
some research for you. There's some research done

626
00:21:10,805 --> 00:21:12,884
around, you know, what's the difference between the

627
00:21:12,884 --> 00:21:15,785
best performing teams and the worst performing teams?

628
00:21:16,484 --> 00:21:19,045
And the researchers found that pretty much the

629
00:21:19,045 --> 00:21:20,505
most important factor

630
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,279
was that the best performing teams, the first

631
00:21:23,279 --> 00:21:25,920
thing they did is set out general guidelines

632
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,640
of how we're gonna work together. Mhmm. The

633
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,519
worst performing teams got right into just doing

634
00:21:31,519 --> 00:21:33,599
the work. And that's a key advantage and

635
00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:35,154
that's something that I would excited to share

636
00:21:35,154 --> 00:21:35,974
with your listeners

637
00:21:36,355 --> 00:21:36,934
is that

638
00:21:37,315 --> 00:21:39,075
talk about how you're gonna work together. For

639
00:21:39,075 --> 00:21:41,894
example, like, what is our preferred communication

640
00:21:42,195 --> 00:21:44,315
medium? Right? Are we talking do we like

641
00:21:44,434 --> 00:21:46,434
do we prefer text? Do we prefer, you

642
00:21:46,434 --> 00:21:46,934
know,

643
00:21:47,269 --> 00:21:49,369
chat or whatever? Do we prefer email?

644
00:21:49,829 --> 00:21:51,589
So let's agree on that. Now let's agree

645
00:21:51,589 --> 00:21:53,609
on what are some norms around communication?

646
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:55,289
What is an acceptable

647
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:58,309
like when do we agree to respond to

648
00:21:58,470 --> 00:22:00,409
if we said email is our preferred communication

649
00:22:00,470 --> 00:22:00,970
method,

650
00:22:01,285 --> 00:22:04,085
can we all agree that we will respond

651
00:22:04,085 --> 00:22:06,805
to emails within twenty four hours? Mhmm. Is

652
00:22:06,805 --> 00:22:09,444
that reasonable? Can we agree to that? How

653
00:22:09,444 --> 00:22:11,365
often are we going to meet as a

654
00:22:11,365 --> 00:22:13,204
group? Right? Whether that's a ward council or

655
00:22:13,204 --> 00:22:15,509
a quorum presidency or whatever it is. When

656
00:22:15,509 --> 00:22:17,130
you complete an assignment,

657
00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:19,190
what is my expectation? It was interesting. I

658
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:21,130
actually just had this experience yesterday,

659
00:22:21,509 --> 00:22:23,369
my counselor in a elders quorum

660
00:22:23,670 --> 00:22:26,789
and the elders quorum president during our meeting

661
00:22:26,789 --> 00:22:28,730
in the morning gave me three assignments.

662
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:30,275
I think I've told him in the in

663
00:22:30,275 --> 00:22:31,394
the past, like, if you give me an

664
00:22:31,394 --> 00:22:34,115
assignment, just assume it's done unless I tell

665
00:22:34,115 --> 00:22:36,115
you otherwise. And so he followed up with

666
00:22:36,115 --> 00:22:37,714
me by text. He's like, hey, Mike. I

667
00:22:37,714 --> 00:22:39,554
I didn't hear anything from you. Did you

668
00:22:39,554 --> 00:22:40,755
do it? And I was like, oh, yeah.

669
00:22:40,755 --> 00:22:42,535
Yeah. No. I I completed those assignments.

670
00:22:43,049 --> 00:22:44,490
Do you want me to report back to

671
00:22:44,490 --> 00:22:46,170
you every time I complete an assignment? He

672
00:22:46,170 --> 00:22:48,410
said, no. That's fine. But I mean, what

673
00:22:48,410 --> 00:22:50,250
I'm saying is maybe that we should talk

674
00:22:50,250 --> 00:22:52,110
about that right off the bat. Like, how

675
00:22:52,730 --> 00:22:54,650
like, what am I gonna assume that once

676
00:22:54,650 --> 00:22:56,674
I've given you an assignment it's done? Or

677
00:22:56,674 --> 00:22:58,194
would I prefer the, you know, as a

678
00:22:58,194 --> 00:23:00,134
leader, would I prefer the that my counselors

679
00:23:00,515 --> 00:23:02,275
report back to me as soon as they've

680
00:23:02,275 --> 00:23:04,434
completed that? Right? So, like, these are the

681
00:23:04,434 --> 00:23:06,674
things that we should talk about as a

682
00:23:06,674 --> 00:23:07,815
leadership group

683
00:23:08,275 --> 00:23:10,869
before we set out doing the work. And

684
00:23:10,869 --> 00:23:12,890
I think so there's key results,

685
00:23:13,269 --> 00:23:14,089
step one.

686
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:15,930
Step two is expectations.

687
00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:19,670
And the advantage of talking about expectations especially

688
00:23:19,670 --> 00:23:22,150
in a a faith based organization or or

689
00:23:22,150 --> 00:23:23,690
an organization full of volunteers

690
00:23:24,255 --> 00:23:27,295
is that it becomes way easier to address

691
00:23:27,295 --> 00:23:29,615
problems when they happen. And trust me, I

692
00:23:29,615 --> 00:23:31,214
mean, we all know we've all had that

693
00:23:31,214 --> 00:23:31,714
experience.

694
00:23:32,015 --> 00:23:34,015
We will have friction points with the people

695
00:23:34,015 --> 00:23:35,855
that we work with in the church. They're

696
00:23:35,855 --> 00:23:37,375
not doing what we what we ask them

697
00:23:37,375 --> 00:23:39,134
to do. But if we've already talked about

698
00:23:39,134 --> 00:23:41,090
it, if we've already said, hey, you know

699
00:23:41,090 --> 00:23:43,250
what? We agreed that we would respond to

700
00:23:43,250 --> 00:23:45,090
our emails within twenty four hours or we

701
00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:45,590
agreed

702
00:23:46,049 --> 00:23:48,549
that if you can't do an assignment

703
00:23:48,850 --> 00:23:50,690
that you'd give me a heads up. It's

704
00:23:50,690 --> 00:23:53,065
way easier to address that with people. But

705
00:23:53,065 --> 00:23:55,384
if you don't set those expectations at the

706
00:23:55,384 --> 00:23:55,884
outset,

707
00:23:56,184 --> 00:23:57,785
if you try number one, you're not going

708
00:23:57,785 --> 00:23:59,465
to feel as comfortable addressing that with the

709
00:23:59,465 --> 00:24:01,465
person. But number two, they're going to feel

710
00:24:01,465 --> 00:24:03,965
attacked. Right? If you address it with them

711
00:24:04,025 --> 00:24:06,585
but you hadn't previously agreed to any of

712
00:24:06,585 --> 00:24:07,085
these

713
00:24:07,410 --> 00:24:08,789
standards, any of these expectations,

714
00:24:09,490 --> 00:24:12,049
they're going to feel attacked. And that's why

715
00:24:12,049 --> 00:24:14,049
it's critical to make sure that we're on

716
00:24:14,049 --> 00:24:15,809
the same page as far as, you know,

717
00:24:15,809 --> 00:24:17,570
how are we going to work together? What

718
00:24:17,570 --> 00:24:19,330
is my expectation? What do you need from

719
00:24:19,330 --> 00:24:21,134
me? And what do I need from you?

720
00:24:21,134 --> 00:24:23,055
And can we agree to those things? Does

721
00:24:23,055 --> 00:24:25,055
that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. That's really good.

722
00:24:25,055 --> 00:24:27,055
And and I think that's maybe a if

723
00:24:27,055 --> 00:24:28,755
a leader or somebody is experiencing,

724
00:24:29,295 --> 00:24:30,674
you know, expectations

725
00:24:30,975 --> 00:24:31,715
or or

726
00:24:32,109 --> 00:24:35,149
or has a disappointment or something like that

727
00:24:35,149 --> 00:24:37,149
didn't work out. So maybe going back to

728
00:24:37,149 --> 00:24:39,549
have we did the structure breakdown? Right? Like,

729
00:24:39,549 --> 00:24:42,109
was it the actual task or maybe, you

730
00:24:42,109 --> 00:24:44,109
know, maybe there's an activity that just kinda

731
00:24:44,109 --> 00:24:46,514
fell flat and like, oh, actually, we need

732
00:24:46,514 --> 00:24:48,754
to build it into our system that three

733
00:24:48,754 --> 00:24:50,674
days out or the Sunday prior to the

734
00:24:50,674 --> 00:24:52,835
activity, we just run through the agenda, the

735
00:24:52,835 --> 00:24:54,994
plans, and everything with the entire ward council

736
00:24:54,994 --> 00:24:56,274
or, you know, whatever it is. But I

737
00:24:56,274 --> 00:24:58,355
think it's important to be not be like,

738
00:24:58,355 --> 00:25:00,355
oh, this person just dropped the ball rather

739
00:25:00,355 --> 00:25:03,190
than, actually, maybe our system is broken. Right?

740
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:04,890
Kurt, did you watch my TED Talk?

741
00:25:05,589 --> 00:25:07,029
To to be honest, I was sitting here

742
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:08,789
thinking I should have watched your TED Talk,

743
00:25:08,789 --> 00:25:10,549
but I did not. Because you're you're basically

744
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:11,509
repeating exactly

745
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:14,025
Oh, good. One of those habits are on

746
00:25:14,105 --> 00:25:16,025
personal accountability. And that's actually how I would

747
00:25:16,025 --> 00:25:18,664
respond. That's brilliant. Kurt, you're just like we

748
00:25:18,664 --> 00:25:20,904
are on the same Man. Wavelength man. You

749
00:25:20,904 --> 00:25:22,945
should, we should be partners. I should Yeah.

750
00:25:23,065 --> 00:25:24,345
I should I he was part of my

751
00:25:24,345 --> 00:25:26,184
team here. But no that's exactly one of

752
00:25:26,184 --> 00:25:28,400
the things that I I counsel people when

753
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,180
you have a breakdown

754
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:31,299
in accountability.

755
00:25:31,759 --> 00:25:32,960
That's the first thing that I would go

756
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,519
to is not because our brains believe it

757
00:25:35,519 --> 00:25:37,039
or not, we are actually you know how

758
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:38,480
we all say oh well we should give

759
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:39,920
people the benefit of the doubt. I mean

760
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:41,634
we all know that, right? In fact, our

761
00:25:41,634 --> 00:25:43,875
brains are programmed the opposite way. We are

762
00:25:43,875 --> 00:25:44,375
programmed

763
00:25:44,914 --> 00:25:46,355
not to give others the benefit of the

764
00:25:46,355 --> 00:25:48,194
doubt. We're programmed to assume that people drop

765
00:25:48,194 --> 00:25:49,954
the ball when in fact, it could very

766
00:25:49,954 --> 00:25:51,974
well have been a communication

767
00:25:52,355 --> 00:25:55,019
breakdown or maybe I didn't I wasn't clear

768
00:25:55,019 --> 00:25:57,019
about my expectations. Or maybe I wasn't clear

769
00:25:57,019 --> 00:25:59,740
about the timeline. Or right? Or maybe you

770
00:25:59,740 --> 00:26:01,580
you did send that to me and it

771
00:26:01,580 --> 00:26:03,180
went to my junk mail. Alright? So there's

772
00:26:03,180 --> 00:26:04,779
a whole bunch of things. And so one

773
00:26:04,779 --> 00:26:06,380
of the things that I suggest is the

774
00:26:06,380 --> 00:26:08,914
way that we address problems is, hey, where

775
00:26:08,914 --> 00:26:11,315
did the process break down there? And when

776
00:26:11,315 --> 00:26:13,474
you address problems in that way, it gets

777
00:26:13,474 --> 00:26:14,295
people thinking,

778
00:26:14,835 --> 00:26:16,595
yeah, okay. I don't know. Where where did

779
00:26:16,595 --> 00:26:17,734
the process break down?

780
00:26:18,035 --> 00:26:20,515
And people are far, you know, get far

781
00:26:20,515 --> 00:26:23,299
less defensive when you're talking about, you know,

782
00:26:23,299 --> 00:26:24,660
where did the ball get dropped here? Not

783
00:26:24,660 --> 00:26:25,779
who dropped the ball, but where did the

784
00:26:25,779 --> 00:26:27,619
ball get dropped? And maybe I'm one of

785
00:26:27,619 --> 00:26:30,099
the maybe I dropped the ball. Right? It

786
00:26:30,099 --> 00:26:32,519
is way easier to address, you know, accountability

787
00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:34,660
gaps in that way when you're talking about

788
00:26:34,660 --> 00:26:37,544
systems. Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. Alright. So,

789
00:26:37,784 --> 00:26:38,024
maybe

790
00:26:38,664 --> 00:26:40,105
how do you phrase each one of these

791
00:26:40,105 --> 00:26:42,424
habits? There's three habits. Right? And the maybe

792
00:26:42,424 --> 00:26:43,325
just go through

793
00:26:43,625 --> 00:26:46,105
how you phrase them. Yeah. Sure. So when

794
00:26:46,105 --> 00:26:48,664
we're demonstrating personal accountability, it would be it's

795
00:26:48,664 --> 00:26:50,950
really around three things. Number one, don't blame

796
00:26:50,950 --> 00:26:53,669
because in fact we are programmed to blame.

797
00:26:53,669 --> 00:26:54,809
And blame only

798
00:26:55,109 --> 00:26:58,470
I actually haven't found one positive outcome from

799
00:26:58,470 --> 00:27:00,230
blame. It just spawns a whole bunch of

800
00:27:00,230 --> 00:27:02,230
negative behaviors in the people that we blame

801
00:27:02,230 --> 00:27:04,365
and in ourselves. Right? When we're blaming other

802
00:27:04,365 --> 00:27:06,365
people as I mentioned earlier, we are not

803
00:27:06,365 --> 00:27:08,525
taking ownership for the problem, right? So number

804
00:27:08,525 --> 00:27:10,765
one, don't blame. Number two, look in the

805
00:27:10,765 --> 00:27:13,644
mirror and say, hey, you know, ask yourself

806
00:27:13,644 --> 00:27:16,445
how may I have contributed to this problem?

807
00:27:16,445 --> 00:27:18,750
I'm not saying fall on your sword know,

808
00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:20,109
for every problem. Oh, it's totally my fault.

809
00:27:20,109 --> 00:27:21,470
It's totally my fault. I'm not saying that.

810
00:27:21,470 --> 00:27:23,309
I'm just saying, hey look, was I not

811
00:27:23,309 --> 00:27:24,769
clear in my expectations?

812
00:27:25,150 --> 00:27:27,710
Was the outcome not clear? You know, where

813
00:27:27,710 --> 00:27:29,309
did the process break down? Right? Is really

814
00:27:29,470 --> 00:27:31,490
or let me back up. It's more like

815
00:27:31,549 --> 00:27:33,230
what part did I play in that? Is

816
00:27:33,230 --> 00:27:35,595
looking in the mirror. And then habit three

817
00:27:35,595 --> 00:27:38,955
is engineering the solution which is around taking

818
00:27:38,955 --> 00:27:40,015
a look at our processes

819
00:27:40,394 --> 00:27:43,195
and saying our process is set up to

820
00:27:43,195 --> 00:27:44,654
help us get the right results.

821
00:27:45,035 --> 00:27:46,910
In a church setting, I

822
00:27:47,369 --> 00:27:49,869
and in a for profit setting,

823
00:27:50,170 --> 00:27:52,490
I strongly believe in standard operating procedures. We

824
00:27:52,490 --> 00:27:54,410
should have standard operating procedures like a standard

825
00:27:54,410 --> 00:27:56,509
template for meeting agendas,

826
00:27:56,809 --> 00:27:58,970
a sacrament agenda. We should have a standard

827
00:27:58,970 --> 00:28:00,109
template for baptisms,

828
00:28:00,490 --> 00:28:01,309
for funerals

829
00:28:01,774 --> 00:28:04,014
and that should be saved in standard doctrine

830
00:28:04,014 --> 00:28:05,634
procedure folder somewhere.

831
00:28:06,255 --> 00:28:08,514
But that would be an example of engineering

832
00:28:08,575 --> 00:28:10,674
the solution. So those are the three steps

833
00:28:10,734 --> 00:28:13,694
around personal accountability. And I like I was

834
00:28:13,694 --> 00:28:16,174
saying, I assume I'm coming into this assuming

835
00:28:16,174 --> 00:28:17,840
that that I think a lot of your

836
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,600
listeners and hopefully a lot of your listeners

837
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,200
are already kind of in that mindset. I

838
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,720
think it's kind of tough. Like, I think

839
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,740
think most people in a church setting

840
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:27,840
try not to default to blame. Maybe they're

841
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,920
thinking it, but they don't typically because they

842
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,840
know that they're dealing with volunteers. Right? They're

843
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,775
not gonna be, you totally dropped the ball,

844
00:28:33,775 --> 00:28:36,195
right? Typically, we're not doing that at church.

845
00:28:36,494 --> 00:28:38,255
And so I'm assuming that a lot of

846
00:28:38,255 --> 00:28:40,994
times church members have applied those three habits

847
00:28:41,215 --> 00:28:42,575
and there are some other things that you

848
00:28:42,575 --> 00:28:43,295
can do that,

849
00:28:43,695 --> 00:28:44,355
such as

850
00:28:44,734 --> 00:28:45,875
clarifying results

851
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:47,179
and clarifying,

852
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,880
expectations of each other that kind of take

853
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,759
it even beyond that. Yeah. By far, one

854
00:28:52,759 --> 00:28:55,639
of the top three questions that we receive

855
00:28:55,639 --> 00:28:57,880
at Leading Saints when it comes to, you

856
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,359
know, leading people, you know, in specific callings

857
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:02,795
or any type of situation is, how do

858
00:29:02,795 --> 00:29:05,035
I motivate my people? Right? And I think

859
00:29:05,035 --> 00:29:06,875
a lot of people could default to, well,

860
00:29:06,875 --> 00:29:08,634
you just you gotta hold them accountable, which

861
00:29:08,634 --> 00:29:10,475
we're we're talking about here. But how would

862
00:29:10,475 --> 00:29:12,475
you respond to that if people when you

863
00:29:12,475 --> 00:29:14,255
know, and especially in a volunteer organization

864
00:29:14,634 --> 00:29:16,315
and they're like, like, this would work so

865
00:29:16,315 --> 00:29:18,400
much better if people weren't involved because I

866
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,400
have to motivate them somehow. Right? Whether it's

867
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,299
the family history

868
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,480
person, the the temple person, or the ministering,

869
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,500
you know, elders quorum, the Relief Society.

870
00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:28,400
So how do you respond to that? How

871
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,420
how can we motivate people? Guilt.

872
00:29:30,914 --> 00:29:32,934
It does work. It just does work.

873
00:29:33,634 --> 00:29:35,955
Shame. I'm just totally kidding. Yeah. Guilt and

874
00:29:35,955 --> 00:29:36,775
shame. No.

875
00:29:37,075 --> 00:29:38,835
Because you because you what they're you know,

876
00:29:38,835 --> 00:29:40,835
and I think that's I don't know. Maybe

877
00:29:40,835 --> 00:29:42,674
that might be some people's go to. No.

878
00:29:42,674 --> 00:29:45,309
The best way to motivate people, you've already

879
00:29:45,390 --> 00:29:47,470
there's a number of ways to motivate people

880
00:29:47,470 --> 00:29:49,309
in the church. The first thing that you

881
00:29:49,309 --> 00:29:51,309
keyed in on is do they have a

882
00:29:51,309 --> 00:29:53,549
say? Do they have a say in what

883
00:29:53,549 --> 00:29:55,869
those key outcomes are? And when it comes

884
00:29:55,869 --> 00:29:58,049
to expectations about how we're gonna work together,

885
00:29:58,109 --> 00:29:59,789
like if I am the bishop and I'm

886
00:29:59,789 --> 00:30:02,805
saying, hey, you know, I expect you to

887
00:30:02,805 --> 00:30:04,884
do this and that. The bishop also needs

888
00:30:04,884 --> 00:30:06,505
to say, what do you need from me?

889
00:30:06,644 --> 00:30:08,005
What do you need from me in order

890
00:30:08,005 --> 00:30:09,684
for you to be successful? Right? And to

891
00:30:09,684 --> 00:30:11,625
get their feedback on that when you're setting

892
00:30:11,684 --> 00:30:13,305
expectations and and goals.

893
00:30:13,710 --> 00:30:16,029
So I would say number one is you

894
00:30:16,029 --> 00:30:18,429
want their input on what are the outcomes

895
00:30:18,429 --> 00:30:20,349
that we're trying to achieve and and what

896
00:30:20,349 --> 00:30:22,529
are the how are we gonna work together?

897
00:30:22,750 --> 00:30:24,849
Another I'll I'll give you three principles.

898
00:30:25,309 --> 00:30:27,069
One is, you know, clarifying that at the

899
00:30:27,069 --> 00:30:29,384
outset and and giving them choice. Right? Choice

900
00:30:29,384 --> 00:30:30,205
and accountability.

901
00:30:30,664 --> 00:30:32,605
The next thing is positive

902
00:30:32,984 --> 00:30:33,484
feedback.

903
00:30:34,345 --> 00:30:35,884
Most of us are terrible

904
00:30:36,345 --> 00:30:37,805
at giving positive feedback

905
00:30:38,265 --> 00:30:39,724
and it is incredibly

906
00:30:40,424 --> 00:30:40,924
powerful.

907
00:30:41,369 --> 00:30:43,529
And what we should be doing is praising

908
00:30:43,529 --> 00:30:46,589
people even when they simply do their job

909
00:30:47,049 --> 00:30:48,829
or even get close

910
00:30:49,369 --> 00:30:50,109
to achieving

911
00:30:50,569 --> 00:30:53,369
the results that we want or you know,

912
00:30:53,369 --> 00:30:55,984
praising people for their effort. But there's really

913
00:30:55,984 --> 00:30:57,984
strong research and I know people, you know,

914
00:30:57,984 --> 00:31:00,625
we we we've heard this for decades and

915
00:31:00,625 --> 00:31:02,704
decades, always should praise people but we still

916
00:31:02,704 --> 00:31:05,424
do not do it well enough. What happens

917
00:31:05,424 --> 00:31:08,005
is when the elders quorum president

918
00:31:08,544 --> 00:31:09,605
says to

919
00:31:10,259 --> 00:31:11,240
one of his counselors,

920
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:14,279
hey, man. I really appreciate you

921
00:31:14,660 --> 00:31:18,099
following up and doing your ministering interviews without

922
00:31:18,099 --> 00:31:20,740
me asking and just reporting that. I really,

923
00:31:20,740 --> 00:31:21,960
really appreciate that.

924
00:31:22,644 --> 00:31:25,684
What's the counselor gonna do? The counselor almost

925
00:31:25,684 --> 00:31:28,265
for sure that's going to increase the chances

926
00:31:28,724 --> 00:31:30,904
that that counselor is going to do that

927
00:31:30,964 --> 00:31:33,125
next month. And that's what the research tells

928
00:31:33,125 --> 00:31:35,045
us is that, you know, when you praise

929
00:31:35,045 --> 00:31:37,865
somebody, it releases dopamine. Dopamine is addictive

930
00:31:38,259 --> 00:31:39,619
and we want more of it and we

931
00:31:39,619 --> 00:31:41,619
will do the behavior that got us that

932
00:31:41,619 --> 00:31:43,480
dopamine hit in the first place.

933
00:31:43,859 --> 00:31:46,819
So again, we do not praise enough and

934
00:31:46,819 --> 00:31:48,679
sometimes we reserve praise for

935
00:31:48,980 --> 00:31:51,785
heroic things but my suggestion to your audience

936
00:31:51,785 --> 00:31:54,184
is if you want to motivate people to

937
00:31:54,184 --> 00:31:55,164
do the right thing,

938
00:31:55,785 --> 00:31:58,184
praise them when they do the right thing

939
00:31:58,184 --> 00:32:00,345
or even get close to doing that right

940
00:32:00,345 --> 00:32:02,825
thing and just watch. You will see them

941
00:32:02,825 --> 00:32:04,919
do it more often. But my third tip

942
00:32:04,919 --> 00:32:07,399
around how to motivate people is around giving

943
00:32:07,399 --> 00:32:10,859
them ownership. Not just choice in, you know,

944
00:32:10,919 --> 00:32:13,480
the key results, but giving them ownership in

945
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,899
making decisions. I think a lot of people

946
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,525
in leadership positions think that

947
00:32:18,845 --> 00:32:21,404
they need to be the one making decisions.

948
00:32:21,404 --> 00:32:22,545
And I will say

949
00:32:22,924 --> 00:32:23,744
in the church,

950
00:32:24,205 --> 00:32:26,865
there are some people with this old mindset

951
00:32:27,484 --> 00:32:29,984
that the bishop, the one with the keys

952
00:32:30,365 --> 00:32:32,909
has to make the decision, right, has to

953
00:32:32,909 --> 00:32:34,690
be the one to make the final decision.

954
00:32:34,990 --> 00:32:36,750
I would say that that's the case in

955
00:32:36,750 --> 00:32:37,809
very few

956
00:32:38,429 --> 00:32:39,409
very few instances

957
00:32:40,429 --> 00:32:42,429
where, you know, the one with the keys

958
00:32:42,429 --> 00:32:44,909
or the Relief Society president needs to be

959
00:32:44,909 --> 00:32:46,210
the one to make the decision.

960
00:32:46,755 --> 00:32:48,535
Justice Smith organized councils

961
00:32:48,914 --> 00:32:51,954
right off the get go. Right? And the

962
00:32:51,954 --> 00:32:54,355
church runs on councils. And if we're getting

963
00:32:54,355 --> 00:32:56,275
feedback from the councils and as a council,

964
00:32:56,275 --> 00:32:58,055
we can agree on a course of action

965
00:32:58,275 --> 00:32:59,634
and we pray about it and we feel

966
00:32:59,634 --> 00:33:02,799
good about it, boom. That's our, you know.

967
00:33:02,859 --> 00:33:05,019
I remember one time I was a counselor

968
00:33:05,019 --> 00:33:07,819
in the bishopric and, Relief Society president came

969
00:33:07,819 --> 00:33:09,500
up to me and she said, Michael, how

970
00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:11,740
do you want the gym set up for

971
00:33:11,740 --> 00:33:14,455
this ward activity that was gonna be a

972
00:33:14,535 --> 00:33:16,295
I maybe it was a it was a

973
00:33:16,295 --> 00:33:18,535
dinner or some sort of ward activity. And

974
00:33:18,535 --> 00:33:19,914
I looked at her and I said,

975
00:33:20,295 --> 00:33:21,914
sister, this is totally

976
00:33:22,375 --> 00:33:24,615
you are the best person to make that

977
00:33:24,615 --> 00:33:27,134
decision. Right? And she was kind of Yeah.

978
00:33:27,255 --> 00:33:28,695
Oh, wow. You know, she she was an

979
00:33:28,695 --> 00:33:30,589
older person and she's like, well, you know,

980
00:33:30,589 --> 00:33:32,269
when I ask somebody in the bishopric what

981
00:33:32,269 --> 00:33:33,630
to do, they always tell me what to

982
00:33:33,630 --> 00:33:35,950
do. What then she was like, oh. And

983
00:33:35,950 --> 00:33:37,390
once I gave her that, you should have

984
00:33:37,390 --> 00:33:39,089
seen her eyes light up. She's like, because

985
00:33:39,150 --> 00:33:39,970
she knew

986
00:33:40,269 --> 00:33:42,109
that she knew what the right thing to

987
00:33:42,109 --> 00:33:43,664
do was and the best way to set

988
00:33:43,664 --> 00:33:46,144
it up. And so I think we, you

989
00:33:46,144 --> 00:33:48,304
know, if we wanna motivate people and if

990
00:33:48,304 --> 00:33:49,204
we want to

991
00:33:49,505 --> 00:33:51,904
help them to take accountability, we need to

992
00:33:51,904 --> 00:33:53,585
give them ownership. And the way we give

993
00:33:53,585 --> 00:33:56,304
them ownership is by asking this question a

994
00:33:56,304 --> 00:33:58,319
lot. What do you think we should do?

995
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,259
Right? Let them make decisions

996
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,240
and resist the urge to jump in and

997
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,240
either make decisions for people or solve their

998
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:06,740
problems.

999
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:08,880
Just ask that question. What do you think

1000
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,359
we should do? Yeah. Those are my my

1001
00:34:11,359 --> 00:34:11,859
tips.

1002
00:34:12,184 --> 00:34:13,704
And I love the the power of a

1003
00:34:13,704 --> 00:34:15,465
simple question of, well, what do you think

1004
00:34:15,465 --> 00:34:17,065
we should do? You know? And and then,

1005
00:34:17,065 --> 00:34:18,925
again, it gives them a feeling of ownership

1006
00:34:18,984 --> 00:34:21,704
like, oh, I suggested that. And the the

1007
00:34:21,704 --> 00:34:23,304
beauty of it, it's almost like this,

1008
00:34:23,784 --> 00:34:26,824
psychological thing. Like, the answer to the next

1009
00:34:26,824 --> 00:34:27,980
step may

1010
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,519
be completely obvious, but when you give them

1011
00:34:30,519 --> 00:34:31,260
the opportunity

1012
00:34:31,559 --> 00:34:34,280
to formulate and speak it, that creates a

1013
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:35,800
a sense of ownership in their own mind.

1014
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,320
Like, yeah, that was my idea and now

1015
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,000
we're seeing it through. And they're actually gonna

1016
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,480
be they'll follow through more likely because it

1017
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,795
came from their own brain. Right? Bingo. And

1018
00:34:43,795 --> 00:34:45,235
that's the key. And I think that's really

1019
00:34:45,235 --> 00:34:47,474
important for your listeners to to to understand

1020
00:34:47,474 --> 00:34:48,994
is that, you know, this whole time we're

1021
00:34:48,994 --> 00:34:50,434
talking about how do we hold people accountable,

1022
00:34:50,434 --> 00:34:52,195
how do we ensure that people do the

1023
00:34:52,195 --> 00:34:54,515
right thing. To be accountable, we gotta give

1024
00:34:54,515 --> 00:34:55,255
them ownership.

1025
00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:57,300
Right? And giving them ownership

1026
00:34:57,839 --> 00:35:00,099
is letting them run with it. And

1027
00:35:00,559 --> 00:35:02,639
the reason why, you know, most of us

1028
00:35:02,639 --> 00:35:04,880
end up in leadership positions in the church,

1029
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:05,780
out of the church

1030
00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:08,179
is because we're really good at solving problems.

1031
00:35:08,434 --> 00:35:09,474
People know that they can put us in

1032
00:35:09,474 --> 00:35:11,635
charge because we'll solve problems. But the problem

1033
00:35:11,635 --> 00:35:13,315
is is that when we get into a

1034
00:35:13,315 --> 00:35:15,954
leadership position, nobody tells us that our job

1035
00:35:15,954 --> 00:35:16,454
changes

1036
00:35:16,914 --> 00:35:18,215
from solving problems

1037
00:35:18,675 --> 00:35:21,159
to teaching problem solving skills. But in fact,

1038
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:22,760
that is our job. As a leader, we

1039
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,840
are no longer supposed to be solving problems.

1040
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,260
We are supposed to be empowering other people

1041
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:28,780
to solve those problems.

1042
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,980
And because we are so good

1043
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,204
at solving problems ourselves, that's what got us

1044
00:35:35,204 --> 00:35:37,684
you know, typically called or promoted in a

1045
00:35:37,684 --> 00:35:38,425
work context.

1046
00:35:39,045 --> 00:35:41,164
When somebody asks us what should we do?

1047
00:35:41,164 --> 00:35:42,885
You know, hey Michael or hey Kurt, what

1048
00:35:42,885 --> 00:35:44,325
should we do here? You want to give

1049
00:35:44,325 --> 00:35:46,325
the answer because you know the answer but

1050
00:35:46,325 --> 00:35:48,110
that's not your job. If you're in a

1051
00:35:48,110 --> 00:35:50,269
leadership position, you need to recognize your job

1052
00:35:50,269 --> 00:35:51,250
is no longer

1053
00:35:51,550 --> 00:35:52,530
to give the answers.

1054
00:35:52,829 --> 00:35:54,769
Your job is to teach

1055
00:35:55,070 --> 00:35:55,809
other people

1056
00:35:56,110 --> 00:35:59,309
leadership skills and problem solving skills. Yeah. It's

1057
00:35:59,309 --> 00:35:59,809
powerful.

1058
00:36:00,255 --> 00:36:01,934
Really good stuff. Alright. Let me just throw

1059
00:36:01,934 --> 00:36:03,614
a few scenarios at you because I think

1060
00:36:03,614 --> 00:36:05,775
it's so we want and you've given some

1061
00:36:05,775 --> 00:36:06,514
great principles

1062
00:36:06,974 --> 00:36:09,694
to contemplate and put into practice. I'm just

1063
00:36:09,694 --> 00:36:11,295
gonna give you a few scenarios, and we

1064
00:36:11,295 --> 00:36:13,054
may repeat a lot of the principles you've

1065
00:36:13,054 --> 00:36:14,920
already said or, you know, double down on

1066
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,860
them, which is good. It'll help, with retention.

1067
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,920
But a scenario of you just had a

1068
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:19,660
word activity,

1069
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:22,440
and it just fell flat. I mean, there

1070
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,280
was a bit of chaos. People were showing

1071
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,440
up late or people who were participating were

1072
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:27,559
showing up late, and it was just a

1073
00:36:27,559 --> 00:36:30,244
mess. And you as maybe in the Bishopric,

1074
00:36:30,625 --> 00:36:32,864
there's this feeling of, okay, well, how do

1075
00:36:32,864 --> 00:36:34,704
I hold that person accountable? Whether it's, like,

1076
00:36:34,704 --> 00:36:37,744
activities committee or a specific person, where do

1077
00:36:37,744 --> 00:36:39,664
we begin in that scenario? Yeah. Well, I

1078
00:36:39,664 --> 00:36:41,905
think it starts with the expectation of feedback.

1079
00:36:41,905 --> 00:36:43,980
And again, when we're talking about, and that's

1080
00:36:43,980 --> 00:36:45,679
something I should have mentioned at the beginning

1081
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:48,539
is when I was talking about agreeing on

1082
00:36:48,539 --> 00:36:50,619
how we're gonna work together which I call

1083
00:36:50,619 --> 00:36:51,119
expectations.

1084
00:36:51,739 --> 00:36:54,380
Mhmm. One thing that should always be in

1085
00:36:54,380 --> 00:36:56,539
your expectations with anybody that you work with

1086
00:36:56,539 --> 00:36:57,039
is

1087
00:36:57,340 --> 00:36:57,840
feedback.

1088
00:36:58,300 --> 00:37:00,445
Hey, Will you do me a favor? Will

1089
00:37:00,445 --> 00:37:02,925
you please give me advice and feedback on

1090
00:37:02,925 --> 00:37:04,684
how well I'm I'm doing here in areas

1091
00:37:04,684 --> 00:37:06,364
that I can do better? And would you

1092
00:37:06,364 --> 00:37:08,525
be open to me doing the same for

1093
00:37:08,525 --> 00:37:09,425
you? Right?

1094
00:37:09,804 --> 00:37:11,405
So that's something that should be in the

1095
00:37:11,405 --> 00:37:11,905
expectations.

1096
00:37:12,204 --> 00:37:13,565
Another thing that I would put in the

1097
00:37:13,565 --> 00:37:14,065
expectations

1098
00:37:14,539 --> 00:37:16,159
and give people a heads up about

1099
00:37:16,539 --> 00:37:18,639
is what I call lessons learned debriefs.

1100
00:37:19,179 --> 00:37:21,679
So anytime that we have award activity

1101
00:37:22,380 --> 00:37:24,400
or a major young women's activity

1102
00:37:24,699 --> 00:37:26,719
or a Relief Society activity,

1103
00:37:27,224 --> 00:37:30,585
we as a Relief Society presidency or award

1104
00:37:30,585 --> 00:37:32,525
council, whatever, we're going to meet together

1105
00:37:32,825 --> 00:37:35,305
to debrief how that activity went and it's

1106
00:37:35,305 --> 00:37:36,845
going to be a lessons learned exercise.

1107
00:37:37,305 --> 00:37:38,925
That's an amazing vehicle

1108
00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:41,039
for giving and receiving feedback

1109
00:37:41,739 --> 00:37:43,819
because we start off and we say even

1110
00:37:43,819 --> 00:37:45,579
even if the award activity was a disaster,

1111
00:37:45,579 --> 00:37:47,599
we start off and say, what went well?

1112
00:37:47,819 --> 00:37:49,900
Mhmm. K? What let's focus on what went

1113
00:37:49,900 --> 00:37:51,980
well and how do we make sure that

1114
00:37:51,980 --> 00:37:54,525
that continues to happen again. Right? How do

1115
00:37:54,525 --> 00:37:56,045
we make sure that these things that were

1116
00:37:56,045 --> 00:37:58,925
good continue on? Do we need to come

1117
00:37:58,925 --> 00:38:01,244
up with kind of some, you know, some

1118
00:38:01,244 --> 00:38:03,565
sort of template, some sort of agenda, some

1119
00:38:03,565 --> 00:38:05,105
sort of right itinerary

1120
00:38:05,804 --> 00:38:07,724
to make sure that we continue to do

1121
00:38:07,724 --> 00:38:09,449
these good things? Okay? So we get that,

1122
00:38:09,449 --> 00:38:10,650
we record it, and we make sure that

1123
00:38:10,650 --> 00:38:12,329
we're going to do that next time. Alright.

1124
00:38:12,329 --> 00:38:13,550
What could have been better?

1125
00:38:13,929 --> 00:38:15,210
Now, we'll get a whole bunch of, you

1126
00:38:15,210 --> 00:38:17,130
know, get some different feedback, this and that.

1127
00:38:17,130 --> 00:38:19,849
Alright. Where did the process break down? So

1128
00:38:19,849 --> 00:38:20,590
they identify

1129
00:38:21,210 --> 00:38:22,565
that, you know,

1130
00:38:23,425 --> 00:38:25,344
the the food was late. Right? That was

1131
00:38:25,344 --> 00:38:26,864
one of the things people were waiting forever

1132
00:38:26,864 --> 00:38:28,385
for the food. Okay. So where did the

1133
00:38:28,385 --> 00:38:30,625
process break down? Well, you know, and that

1134
00:38:30,625 --> 00:38:32,164
takes it off of people.

1135
00:38:32,704 --> 00:38:34,385
Well, you know, that person's an idiot. They

1136
00:38:34,385 --> 00:38:35,984
were just late. They were lazy. Now, where

1137
00:38:35,984 --> 00:38:38,039
did the process break down? So we can

1138
00:38:38,039 --> 00:38:40,199
talk about why did the food, you know,

1139
00:38:40,199 --> 00:38:42,360
arrive late. And if it was

1140
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,019
likely it's a combination of,

1141
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:45,980
you know,

1142
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:46,860
systems

1143
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,880
of problem and maybe human error. Right? Or

1144
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,500
I forgot or I was late or whatever.

1145
00:38:51,605 --> 00:38:53,364
What we do next time to make sure

1146
00:38:53,364 --> 00:38:55,204
that the food isn't late. Right? Are there

1147
00:38:55,204 --> 00:38:57,065
things that we can do, you know, reminders

1148
00:38:57,364 --> 00:38:58,184
or whatever

1149
00:38:58,885 --> 00:39:00,565
to, you know, can we make sure that

1150
00:39:00,565 --> 00:39:02,644
we're getting the food forty five minutes ahead

1151
00:39:02,644 --> 00:39:04,164
of time or whatever it is. Right? But

1152
00:39:04,164 --> 00:39:05,844
focus on the process and we take it

1153
00:39:05,844 --> 00:39:08,395
off the person. So that would be that's

1154
00:39:08,395 --> 00:39:10,787
my suggestion is, you know, in making sure

1155
00:39:10,787 --> 00:39:13,280
that things go better next time is implement

1156
00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:16,159
implementing those lessons learned debriefs and setting the

1157
00:39:16,159 --> 00:39:18,960
expectation of feedback. Yeah. So I'm curious. You

1158
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,344
bring up another interesting dynamic there of, like,

1159
00:39:21,344 --> 00:39:23,025
it's important, like you said, that, you know,

1160
00:39:23,025 --> 00:39:24,484
principle one is don't blame.

1161
00:39:24,945 --> 00:39:27,105
But what happens if you're attempting to hold

1162
00:39:27,105 --> 00:39:29,425
somebody accountable and they begin to blame? Right?

1163
00:39:29,425 --> 00:39:30,324
Oh, the caterer,

1164
00:39:30,625 --> 00:39:32,625
like, they're a mess. I got there on

1165
00:39:32,625 --> 00:39:34,144
time. They didn't have the food ready. I

1166
00:39:34,144 --> 00:39:35,789
had to wait in their lobby for, you

1167
00:39:35,789 --> 00:39:37,949
know, sixty minutes, and that laid me made

1168
00:39:37,949 --> 00:39:40,590
me late. Right? Like, they're blaming others. Is

1169
00:39:40,590 --> 00:39:43,230
there anything that we could do to diffuse

1170
00:39:43,230 --> 00:39:45,309
that blame or or not let it just

1171
00:39:45,309 --> 00:39:47,390
be be the thing that that is now

1172
00:39:47,390 --> 00:39:49,390
being held accountable as the caterer instead of

1173
00:39:49,390 --> 00:39:51,724
the individual? Yeah. And I think, you know,

1174
00:39:51,784 --> 00:39:53,944
going back to the leader being the one

1175
00:39:53,944 --> 00:39:55,085
to model the way,

1176
00:39:55,385 --> 00:39:56,824
I think, you know, where did the process

1177
00:39:56,824 --> 00:39:59,144
break down? You could also say, hey. Is

1178
00:39:59,144 --> 00:40:01,625
there anything that I could've done differently to

1179
00:40:01,625 --> 00:40:03,464
make it easier for somebody to get the

1180
00:40:03,464 --> 00:40:05,829
food here on time? Is there anything that

1181
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:07,190
I could have done differently? And and you

1182
00:40:07,269 --> 00:40:08,969
you're the one that's modeling accountability.

1183
00:40:09,429 --> 00:40:10,789
And then when you have people who are

1184
00:40:10,789 --> 00:40:12,469
saying, wow. Is the caterer or is this

1185
00:40:12,469 --> 00:40:14,789
or is that? It's like, okay. Is there

1186
00:40:14,789 --> 00:40:17,750
anything you could do differently next time to

1187
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:19,609
ensure that the food gets here on time?

1188
00:40:19,715 --> 00:40:21,894
Couple of things. Number one, we're not saying

1189
00:40:22,195 --> 00:40:24,135
and there's a couple of principles in here.

1190
00:40:24,514 --> 00:40:26,375
One is I'm not talking about

1191
00:40:26,755 --> 00:40:28,755
as a leader, I'm not blaming you because

1192
00:40:28,755 --> 00:40:30,514
I know you're not taking ownership of this.

1193
00:40:30,514 --> 00:40:32,755
I'm not blaming you for the food being

1194
00:40:32,755 --> 00:40:35,335
late. I'm asking you about next time.

1195
00:40:35,690 --> 00:40:37,930
And this is something really interesting. When you're

1196
00:40:37,930 --> 00:40:39,150
talking about the past,

1197
00:40:39,530 --> 00:40:40,269
any feedback

1198
00:40:40,570 --> 00:40:42,030
tends to sound like criticism.

1199
00:40:42,570 --> 00:40:44,329
Mhmm. Yeah. But when you're talking about the

1200
00:40:44,329 --> 00:40:47,369
future, it tends to sound like advice. And

1201
00:40:47,369 --> 00:40:50,030
advice is way easier to receive than criticism.

1202
00:40:50,489 --> 00:40:51,815
So that's something to keep in mind as

1203
00:40:51,815 --> 00:40:53,255
a leader. Talk about the future. Hey, what

1204
00:40:53,255 --> 00:40:54,614
can we do next time to make sure

1205
00:40:54,614 --> 00:40:56,375
that this doesn't happen? But another thing you

1206
00:40:56,375 --> 00:40:57,894
can do is say, you know, when you

1207
00:40:57,894 --> 00:40:59,655
say when you have gone first, when you

1208
00:40:59,655 --> 00:41:01,815
have modeled accountability first and and you said,

1209
00:41:01,815 --> 00:41:03,414
hey, is there anything I could do I

1210
00:41:03,414 --> 00:41:04,234
could do differently?

1211
00:41:04,769 --> 00:41:06,309
You earn the moral authority

1212
00:41:06,610 --> 00:41:07,269
to say,

1213
00:41:07,570 --> 00:41:09,269
and what could you do differently?

1214
00:41:09,890 --> 00:41:11,250
You know, after they've gone through their list

1215
00:41:11,250 --> 00:41:12,849
of all these things of the people and

1216
00:41:12,849 --> 00:41:15,409
circumstances that they're blaming. I hear you and

1217
00:41:15,409 --> 00:41:17,489
that's unfortunate. Is there anything you could do

1218
00:41:17,489 --> 00:41:17,989
differently?

1219
00:41:18,305 --> 00:41:19,825
Well, they can't really get upset at that

1220
00:41:19,825 --> 00:41:22,144
because you've just gone first. Right? You've just

1221
00:41:22,144 --> 00:41:24,385
modeled the way. And I think it's an

1222
00:41:24,385 --> 00:41:24,885
okay

1223
00:41:25,184 --> 00:41:26,864
thing and I think people will receive that

1224
00:41:26,864 --> 00:41:29,425
okay. Say, yeah, you know, I could probably

1225
00:41:29,425 --> 00:41:31,730
do this differently. Right? I think that's how

1226
00:41:31,730 --> 00:41:33,809
you're somebody who's not going to take ownership,

1227
00:41:33,809 --> 00:41:35,889
I think that's an easy way to test

1228
00:41:35,889 --> 00:41:37,409
them is what could you do differently next

1229
00:41:37,409 --> 00:41:38,849
time to make sure that we get better

1230
00:41:38,849 --> 00:41:41,250
results? Yeah. Is there any advice you have

1231
00:41:41,250 --> 00:41:43,269
as far as, like, when that next activity

1232
00:41:43,329 --> 00:41:45,154
comes around? Because the last thing anybody wants

1233
00:41:45,154 --> 00:41:47,234
to be is a micromanager where you're thinking

1234
00:41:47,394 --> 00:41:48,675
you know, in your brain, you're thinking, I

1235
00:41:48,675 --> 00:41:50,514
don't know. Are they gonna show up early

1236
00:41:50,514 --> 00:41:51,954
to get the food? Because, you know, we

1237
00:41:51,954 --> 00:41:53,474
talked about that, but did do they remember?

1238
00:41:53,474 --> 00:41:55,234
Maybe I'll call them and text them and,

1239
00:41:55,234 --> 00:41:56,755
you know, call them again and make sure

1240
00:41:56,755 --> 00:41:58,034
that, hey. Do you remember like, we talked

1241
00:41:58,034 --> 00:42:00,000
about you picking up the food earlier, whatever

1242
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,239
it was. Right? Is there any advice on

1243
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,800
not causing the the accountability conversation to turn

1244
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,880
you into a micromanager the next time we're

1245
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,860
up? Yeah. I mean, in an activity setting,

1246
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,340
what I I'm a big believer in checklists.

1247
00:42:12,835 --> 00:42:15,235
You know, if we have had a disaster

1248
00:42:15,235 --> 00:42:16,054
reward activity,

1249
00:42:16,355 --> 00:42:18,675
our lessons learned debrief better be coming up

1250
00:42:18,675 --> 00:42:21,235
with a checklist for next time. What are

1251
00:42:21,235 --> 00:42:23,175
the things that we need to make sure

1252
00:42:23,315 --> 00:42:25,394
that we've considered as we plan the next

1253
00:42:25,394 --> 00:42:27,155
activity and as we carry out the next

1254
00:42:27,155 --> 00:42:27,655
activity?

1255
00:42:28,199 --> 00:42:30,599
So that is a standard operating procedure and

1256
00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:31,739
I'm a huge believer

1257
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:34,139
that doing that will reduce

1258
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,079
human error. It'll reduce the amount of bad

1259
00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:39,000
things that will happen. And if you look

1260
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:39,739
at any

1261
00:42:40,199 --> 00:42:40,699
high

1262
00:42:41,465 --> 00:42:44,585
risk industry whether that's the medical industry, whether

1263
00:42:44,585 --> 00:42:45,965
that's the military,

1264
00:42:46,505 --> 00:42:49,065
you will find a lot of checklists that

1265
00:42:49,065 --> 00:42:49,965
are used

1266
00:42:50,344 --> 00:42:51,945
all the time. It's not sitting up on

1267
00:42:51,945 --> 00:42:52,925
a shelf somewhere.

1268
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,500
And so that would that's my first suggestion

1269
00:42:55,559 --> 00:42:56,679
to make sure that you don't come off

1270
00:42:56,679 --> 00:42:58,359
as a micromanager is that you have come

1271
00:42:58,359 --> 00:43:00,039
up with a checklist and that you're talking

1272
00:43:00,039 --> 00:43:01,960
to leaders about, hey, are you following the

1273
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:03,799
checklist? Are we, you know, and are we

1274
00:43:03,799 --> 00:43:04,699
hitting those milestones?

1275
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,699
But on your regular responsibilities, like for example,

1276
00:43:09,195 --> 00:43:10,815
when let's say a counselor

1277
00:43:11,195 --> 00:43:13,454
is, you know, one counselor in the bishopric

1278
00:43:13,594 --> 00:43:14,735
is overseeing

1279
00:43:15,275 --> 00:43:16,094
they're supporting

1280
00:43:16,474 --> 00:43:18,655
Sunday school. K? So one

1281
00:43:19,035 --> 00:43:20,015
member of the bishopric

1282
00:43:20,315 --> 00:43:22,635
counselor, they are supporting Sunday school. They're kind

1283
00:43:22,635 --> 00:43:25,139
of the key liaison there. As the bishop,

1284
00:43:25,519 --> 00:43:28,340
what I wanna know is, hey, let's say,

1285
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,079
Kurt, you're the counselor and the bishop become

1286
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:32,659
the bishop. Hey, Kurt. Do you have

1287
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,019
a meeting schedule with the Sunday school president?

1288
00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:38,719
How often are you meeting with the Sunday

1289
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,934
school president to make sure that, you know,

1290
00:43:40,934 --> 00:43:42,394
we follow the schedule?

1291
00:43:42,855 --> 00:43:45,735
It's that regular meeting schedule. It's one of

1292
00:43:45,735 --> 00:43:47,515
the greatest accountability mechanisms

1293
00:43:48,135 --> 00:43:50,614
is a regular meeting schedule to make sure

1294
00:43:50,614 --> 00:43:52,055
that we're on top of things. And I

1295
00:43:52,055 --> 00:43:53,494
gotta tell you as a bishop or counselor,

1296
00:43:53,494 --> 00:43:54,855
I've never been a bishop, brought up in

1297
00:43:54,855 --> 00:43:57,699
a bishop counselor in three different bishoprics. And

1298
00:43:57,699 --> 00:43:59,719
I gotta tell you anytime that I knew

1299
00:44:00,579 --> 00:44:02,179
that, you know, if I had if I

1300
00:44:02,179 --> 00:44:03,000
was overseeing

1301
00:44:03,619 --> 00:44:04,119
primary

1302
00:44:04,659 --> 00:44:06,659
or music or ward mission or whatever it

1303
00:44:06,659 --> 00:44:07,159
was,

1304
00:44:07,460 --> 00:44:08,679
if I was

1305
00:44:08,980 --> 00:44:11,575
dropping the ball on overseeing that, it was

1306
00:44:11,575 --> 00:44:13,355
because I was not meeting with them regularly.

1307
00:44:13,815 --> 00:44:15,894
Mhmm. And that's a way to keep you

1308
00:44:15,894 --> 00:44:17,655
as a leader accountable. It's a way to

1309
00:44:17,655 --> 00:44:18,474
keep them accountable.

1310
00:44:19,015 --> 00:44:21,095
But, and actually there is a I just

1311
00:44:21,095 --> 00:44:23,670
read, just the other day, a huge meta

1312
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:26,070
analysis which it was a study of studies.

1313
00:44:26,070 --> 00:44:28,070
It's the gold standard of research. It was

1314
00:44:28,070 --> 00:44:29,369
a 138

1315
00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:31,369
separate pieces of research

1316
00:44:31,909 --> 00:44:34,630
and they found that you have about a

1317
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:36,630
90 to 95%

1318
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:37,130
probability

1319
00:44:37,644 --> 00:44:38,945
of achieving your goals

1320
00:44:39,244 --> 00:44:40,305
if you have established,

1321
00:44:41,325 --> 00:44:42,545
a regular cadence

1322
00:44:43,085 --> 00:44:46,864
of check-in meetings. Mhmm. That's an insane statistic.

1323
00:44:47,005 --> 00:44:48,925
Yeah. That's awesome. It's like you're pretty much

1324
00:44:48,925 --> 00:44:49,425
guaranteed

1325
00:44:49,805 --> 00:44:51,699
to get the right results if you have

1326
00:44:51,699 --> 00:44:54,019
established a cadence of a meeting schedule. And

1327
00:44:54,019 --> 00:44:54,980
we all know that, you know, we have

1328
00:44:54,980 --> 00:44:56,900
that cadence as a typically as elders come

1329
00:44:56,900 --> 00:44:59,079
president, religious society president, and bishopric.

1330
00:44:59,539 --> 00:45:01,079
But in other responsibilities,

1331
00:45:01,940 --> 00:45:03,079
you know, as counselors,

1332
00:45:03,545 --> 00:45:05,945
are your counselors do they have a regular

1333
00:45:05,945 --> 00:45:08,425
cadence with the, you know, with the people

1334
00:45:08,425 --> 00:45:10,664
that they are responsible for overseeing? Yeah. That's

1335
00:45:10,664 --> 00:45:12,744
really good. I love that. Alright. Next scenario

1336
00:45:12,744 --> 00:45:14,425
and and those that are listening, feel free

1337
00:45:14,425 --> 00:45:15,965
to use the question box

1338
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:18,550
if you have certain questions that are coming

1339
00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:20,389
to mind or scenarios that you'd like help

1340
00:45:20,389 --> 00:45:21,369
on around accountability.

1341
00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:23,750
The next scenario I wanna present is you're

1342
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:25,670
in a presidency, let's say, a Relief Society

1343
00:45:25,670 --> 00:45:26,170
presidency,

1344
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:28,090
and the first counselor

1345
00:45:28,550 --> 00:45:30,809
is seems engaged, comes to all the meetings,

1346
00:45:30,869 --> 00:45:33,585
and, you know, you maybe give tasks for

1347
00:45:33,585 --> 00:45:35,184
that counselor to do. But it seems like

1348
00:45:35,184 --> 00:45:36,945
the minute she leaves and walks out of

1349
00:45:36,945 --> 00:45:38,625
the room, she doesn't think about being in

1350
00:45:38,625 --> 00:45:41,425
the release study presidency until the next meeting.

1351
00:45:41,425 --> 00:45:43,025
And then you show up here that she's

1352
00:45:43,025 --> 00:45:45,425
like, oh, yeah. Yeah. I I wasn't gonna

1353
00:45:45,425 --> 00:45:46,929
do that, but I didn't. You know? How

1354
00:45:46,929 --> 00:45:47,989
do we hold her accountable?

1355
00:45:48,289 --> 00:45:49,809
Yeah. And that goes again, it goes back

1356
00:45:49,809 --> 00:45:50,469
to expectations.

1357
00:45:50,849 --> 00:45:51,829
It goes back to

1358
00:45:52,210 --> 00:45:54,130
how do I wanna you know, what support

1359
00:45:54,130 --> 00:45:55,730
do you need for you to get the

1360
00:45:55,730 --> 00:45:57,250
right results to to for you to follow

1361
00:45:57,250 --> 00:45:59,489
through with your assignments and what do I

1362
00:45:59,489 --> 00:46:01,284
need from you? One of the things as

1363
00:46:01,284 --> 00:46:04,025
a Relief Society president that I would want

1364
00:46:04,085 --> 00:46:06,525
is, like I said, like I would say,

1365
00:46:06,525 --> 00:46:08,244
you know, we have to have some sort

1366
00:46:08,244 --> 00:46:10,485
of a reporting schedule. You know, do I

1367
00:46:10,485 --> 00:46:12,659
want you to report back next week? And

1368
00:46:12,659 --> 00:46:14,179
maybe maybe we did agree to that. Maybe

1369
00:46:14,179 --> 00:46:15,699
we said, okay. Well, you know, just report

1370
00:46:15,699 --> 00:46:17,799
back at the next Relief Society meeting. K?

1371
00:46:18,099 --> 00:46:19,319
And if the counselor

1372
00:46:19,699 --> 00:46:21,380
keeps saying, no. I didn't follow through with

1373
00:46:21,380 --> 00:46:23,619
responsibilities. I'd say, I would just sit down

1374
00:46:23,619 --> 00:46:25,780
and say, you know, individually one on one,

1375
00:46:25,780 --> 00:46:27,905
not as a Relief Society presidency but one

1376
00:46:27,905 --> 00:46:29,985
on one with that individual say, hey look

1377
00:46:29,985 --> 00:46:31,585
is there anything that I could because I've

1378
00:46:31,585 --> 00:46:33,505
noticed a pattern here. You know, when I

1379
00:46:33,505 --> 00:46:34,244
give you responsibility,

1380
00:46:35,025 --> 00:46:36,545
you know, we we follow-up a week later

1381
00:46:36,545 --> 00:46:39,230
and it isn't it isn't being fulfilled. Is

1382
00:46:39,230 --> 00:46:42,050
there anything that I'm doing or not doing

1383
00:46:42,269 --> 00:46:44,429
that's making it harder for you to fulfill

1384
00:46:44,429 --> 00:46:45,170
your responsibilities?

1385
00:46:45,869 --> 00:46:48,190
Oh no no no no. You're fine sister

1386
00:46:48,190 --> 00:46:50,429
whatever. No. You're you're doing fine. Alright. What

1387
00:46:50,429 --> 00:46:52,664
can we do to make it easier for

1388
00:46:52,664 --> 00:46:54,364
you to follow through in your responsibilities

1389
00:46:55,065 --> 00:46:57,144
and for you to, you know, achieve those

1390
00:46:57,144 --> 00:46:59,864
assignments? Because again, I'm sure that counselor is

1391
00:46:59,864 --> 00:47:02,204
feeling like a failure. Right? Mhmm. I know

1392
00:47:02,344 --> 00:47:04,139
they don't wanna feel that way and I

1393
00:47:04,139 --> 00:47:05,260
think it'd be easier for them to just

1394
00:47:05,260 --> 00:47:06,539
just release me. But no. No. No. We're

1395
00:47:06,539 --> 00:47:07,980
gonna work with you. So what can I

1396
00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:09,980
do as a really society president to make

1397
00:47:09,980 --> 00:47:12,299
it easier to, you know, to fill those

1398
00:47:12,299 --> 00:47:12,799
responsibilities?

1399
00:47:13,659 --> 00:47:15,980
Do you need a check-in? Do you need

1400
00:47:15,980 --> 00:47:17,519
me to check-in with you midweek?

1401
00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:18,559
And actually,

1402
00:47:19,065 --> 00:47:20,824
that's another thing that I would suggest is

1403
00:47:20,824 --> 00:47:22,045
in is that

1404
00:47:22,344 --> 00:47:23,724
presidents and bishops

1405
00:47:24,184 --> 00:47:26,125
meet individually with their counselors.

1406
00:47:26,425 --> 00:47:29,224
It's kind of tough. It's really tough to

1407
00:47:29,224 --> 00:47:30,204
have that conversation

1408
00:47:30,585 --> 00:47:31,945
in front of other people, in front of

1409
00:47:31,945 --> 00:47:34,889
another counselor and secretary. Right? It's way easier

1410
00:47:34,889 --> 00:47:36,969
to have that conversation one on one. And

1411
00:47:36,969 --> 00:47:38,109
so, I would suggest

1412
00:47:38,650 --> 00:47:41,130
that you in addition to setting up regular

1413
00:47:41,130 --> 00:47:43,849
bishopric meetings, regular Relief Society meetings, did you

1414
00:47:43,849 --> 00:47:46,089
also have a cadence of regular one on

1415
00:47:46,089 --> 00:47:48,275
ones So that you can talk, have those

1416
00:47:48,275 --> 00:47:50,594
tough conversations. Right? And say what kind of

1417
00:47:50,594 --> 00:47:52,755
support, what kind of individual support do you

1418
00:47:52,755 --> 00:47:55,154
need to fulfill these responsibilities? And I think

1419
00:47:55,154 --> 00:47:57,554
a lot of people feel stuck in that

1420
00:47:57,554 --> 00:47:58,054
situation

1421
00:47:58,594 --> 00:48:01,315
because they're trying to address this as a

1422
00:48:01,315 --> 00:48:04,280
group and nobody wants to call out somebody

1423
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,360
else in the middle of a group. So

1424
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,360
don't. Make sure to have individual one on

1425
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,440
one meetings with people to make to check-in

1426
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,199
and make sure that how are you doing?

1427
00:48:12,199 --> 00:48:13,800
How are things at home? How are you

1428
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:14,860
enjoying your calling?

1429
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,065
How are you you know, and then we

1430
00:48:17,065 --> 00:48:18,744
can talk about business as far as like

1431
00:48:18,744 --> 00:48:20,184
what can I do to support you better

1432
00:48:20,184 --> 00:48:21,945
to get those right results? Yeah. And I

1433
00:48:21,945 --> 00:48:24,525
think that one on one cadence also

1434
00:48:24,905 --> 00:48:27,485
really makes it easier for people. If you're

1435
00:48:27,625 --> 00:48:29,305
if you're meeting with, you know, as a

1436
00:48:29,305 --> 00:48:31,730
presidency on a Sunday and you have a

1437
00:48:31,730 --> 00:48:33,889
one on one check-in with somebody on a

1438
00:48:33,889 --> 00:48:34,389
Thursday,

1439
00:48:34,690 --> 00:48:36,289
that's a great reminder for the person to

1440
00:48:36,289 --> 00:48:38,210
be like, oh shoot, I haven't done anything.

1441
00:48:38,210 --> 00:48:39,889
Alright. So what are you gonna do in

1442
00:48:39,889 --> 00:48:41,329
the next couple of days before we meet

1443
00:48:41,329 --> 00:48:43,089
again on Sunday to talk about that, right?

1444
00:48:43,089 --> 00:48:45,250
Yeah. So that one on one meeting is

1445
00:48:45,250 --> 00:48:47,054
really kind of that you know, just a

1446
00:48:47,054 --> 00:48:50,494
super accountability mechanism. Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned

1447
00:48:50,494 --> 00:48:52,094
that because it seems like there's like phases

1448
00:48:52,094 --> 00:48:54,255
of accountability like on a sort of on

1449
00:48:54,255 --> 00:48:56,335
a primary level. It's like, you know, sure

1450
00:48:56,335 --> 00:48:58,175
there's ways to hold people accountable in a

1451
00:48:58,175 --> 00:49:00,000
group setting, but then there's like, oh, it

1452
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,920
looks like this person or that person. When

1453
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:02,800
you can sort of take it to the

1454
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,640
next level of, like, in our next meeting

1455
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,719
that we're having, we're gonna talk about this

1456
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:08,320
and address it one on one rather than,

1457
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:09,920
you know, scolding them in front of the

1458
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:11,440
group or shaming them in front of the

1459
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,664
group. Right? Yeah. Exactly like that. Like I

1460
00:49:13,664 --> 00:49:15,105
was telling you about that one bishop who,

1461
00:49:15,744 --> 00:49:17,425
you know, called that young man's president on

1462
00:49:17,425 --> 00:49:19,025
the carpet in front of the whole war

1463
00:49:19,025 --> 00:49:21,025
council. I was I was not good. It's

1464
00:49:21,025 --> 00:49:23,825
not good. Yeah. That that's very demotivating. Kinda

1465
00:49:23,825 --> 00:49:25,889
get the the opposite result of things. So

1466
00:49:26,130 --> 00:49:27,969
awesome. Next scenario I wanna throw at you

1467
00:49:27,969 --> 00:49:28,210
is,

1468
00:49:28,849 --> 00:49:31,170
is administering. You know, the elders quorum president

1469
00:49:31,170 --> 00:49:33,489
is doing his ministering interviews and, you know,

1470
00:49:33,489 --> 00:49:36,049
they have this one, two, three families that

1471
00:49:36,049 --> 00:49:38,449
they're they're assigned to on their ministering and

1472
00:49:38,449 --> 00:49:39,650
they're not doing it. How do I hold

1473
00:49:39,650 --> 00:49:40,309
them accountable?

1474
00:49:40,734 --> 00:49:42,974
Yeah. The question is is how often are

1475
00:49:42,974 --> 00:49:44,894
you checking in as an elders quorum presidency

1476
00:49:44,894 --> 00:49:46,755
and how often are you doing those ministering

1477
00:49:46,815 --> 00:49:48,494
interviews? It would be the same conversation that

1478
00:49:48,494 --> 00:49:50,755
the Relief Society president would have

1479
00:49:51,135 --> 00:49:51,954
with their counselor.

1480
00:49:52,414 --> 00:49:54,160
Are you meeting you know, if you're as

1481
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,219
an elder elders' comp residency only kind of

1482
00:49:56,219 --> 00:49:58,700
like checking in, you know, one half every

1483
00:49:58,700 --> 00:50:01,739
six months, yeah, like myself included, I can

1484
00:50:01,739 --> 00:50:04,219
go a long time and forget to do

1485
00:50:04,219 --> 00:50:06,714
my ministering, right? Mhmm. But if I'm meeting

1486
00:50:06,714 --> 00:50:08,315
with them on a fairly regular basis and

1487
00:50:08,315 --> 00:50:10,635
having a quick check-in with my elders, Carmen,

1488
00:50:10,635 --> 00:50:12,474
on a regular basis to make sure they're

1489
00:50:12,474 --> 00:50:14,315
doing, you know, just check-in on on those

1490
00:50:14,315 --> 00:50:16,635
families, that in and of itself is going

1491
00:50:16,635 --> 00:50:18,635
to motivate. Well, I'll flip. I know I

1492
00:50:18,635 --> 00:50:20,789
know Kurt's gonna come and talk to me

1493
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:22,869
like every month. He's gonna be talking to

1494
00:50:22,869 --> 00:50:24,550
me asking me about my family's or every

1495
00:50:24,550 --> 00:50:26,230
other month or whatever it is. Right? I'm

1496
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:27,829
far more likely to do it. But the

1497
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:30,550
conversation would sound a lot like that conversation

1498
00:50:30,550 --> 00:50:32,710
that releases how your prison's had which is,

1499
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:34,344
hey, you know what? I've I've seen that

1500
00:50:34,344 --> 00:50:36,344
you've missed a number of months in a

1501
00:50:36,344 --> 00:50:38,905
row, you know, checking in with your ministering

1502
00:50:38,905 --> 00:50:39,405
families.

1503
00:50:39,945 --> 00:50:42,025
Is there anything I can do to support

1504
00:50:42,025 --> 00:50:43,864
you better? You know, what can I do

1505
00:50:43,864 --> 00:50:45,305
to help you? You know, what do you

1506
00:50:45,305 --> 00:50:47,159
need? Is there anything getting in your way?

1507
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:48,760
And let's make it a systems problem like

1508
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,380
right like are there any obstacles?

1509
00:50:50,679 --> 00:50:52,119
Maybe one of the obstacles is I don't

1510
00:50:52,119 --> 00:50:54,199
have anything in common with them. Right? Well,

1511
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:56,059
let's talk about that. That's a legitimate

1512
00:50:56,599 --> 00:50:59,207
challenge that the elders' comp presidency needs to

1513
00:50:59,207 --> 00:51:00,855
know And then they can either say, hey,

1514
00:51:00,855 --> 00:51:02,454
you can either do this or we could

1515
00:51:02,454 --> 00:51:04,695
kind of change it. Right? But as a

1516
00:51:04,695 --> 00:51:05,994
leader, it's your responsibility

1517
00:51:06,375 --> 00:51:08,074
to be meeting regularly,

1518
00:51:08,535 --> 00:51:10,135
you know, one on one with people or

1519
00:51:10,135 --> 00:51:10,875
as a companionship

1520
00:51:11,574 --> 00:51:13,655
and, you know, to ensure that they're they're

1521
00:51:13,655 --> 00:51:14,795
fulfilling those responsibilities

1522
00:51:15,369 --> 00:51:16,829
and it's your responsibility

1523
00:51:17,210 --> 00:51:19,130
to support them and say what can I

1524
00:51:19,130 --> 00:51:21,949
do to support you? Right? That's really good.

1525
00:51:22,089 --> 00:51:24,670
Another Kurt asked this question here,

1526
00:51:25,130 --> 00:51:27,609
spotlight it. Do you approach this differently with

1527
00:51:27,609 --> 00:51:29,150
young leaders than older

1528
00:51:29,545 --> 00:51:31,704
more experienced leaders? I have some thoughts and

1529
00:51:31,704 --> 00:51:34,025
assumptions, but I'd like to hear you address

1530
00:51:34,025 --> 00:51:36,764
this. More upfront reminders about assignments, etcetera.

1531
00:51:37,065 --> 00:51:39,065
Yeah. For sure. Like, when I'm I've worked

1532
00:51:39,065 --> 00:51:40,664
with youth yeah. And I'm sure this is

1533
00:51:40,664 --> 00:51:42,744
Kurt. His his name is Kurt. Yeah. Kurt.

1534
00:51:42,744 --> 00:51:45,500
Yeah. I'm sure he he's assuming what I'm

1535
00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:46,940
gonna say is that, yeah, there has to

1536
00:51:46,940 --> 00:51:48,380
be a little bit more hand holding with

1537
00:51:48,380 --> 00:51:50,239
with youth. And for example,

1538
00:51:50,699 --> 00:51:52,539
this one youth, he was every time it

1539
00:51:52,539 --> 00:51:53,920
was his turn to

1540
00:51:54,460 --> 00:51:57,280
bring the bread for sacrament, he would forget.

1541
00:51:58,215 --> 00:52:01,414
So step one is I would have some

1542
00:52:01,414 --> 00:52:02,934
extra bread as a counselor and the bishop

1543
00:52:02,934 --> 00:52:04,614
or guy would have some extra bread, you

1544
00:52:04,614 --> 00:52:06,454
know, just in case. Right? And then I'd

1545
00:52:06,454 --> 00:52:08,215
follow-up with him and I'd be like, hey,

1546
00:52:08,215 --> 00:52:09,735
was there any, you know, how did it

1547
00:52:09,735 --> 00:52:11,655
go with your assignment, the bread assignment? Like,

1548
00:52:11,655 --> 00:52:13,260
I didn't know. And he's like, oh yeah,

1549
00:52:13,260 --> 00:52:15,019
you know, I forgot. I forgot again. Is

1550
00:52:15,019 --> 00:52:16,619
there anything I can do? Oh no. I

1551
00:52:16,619 --> 00:52:18,300
don't know. Would you like me to text

1552
00:52:18,300 --> 00:52:20,940
you on Saturday night? Yeah. Actually, that would

1553
00:52:20,940 --> 00:52:22,400
be great. Yeah. Sure.

1554
00:52:22,780 --> 00:52:23,280
So

1555
00:52:23,660 --> 00:52:26,140
we all need reminders. The the differences between,

1556
00:52:26,140 --> 00:52:28,404
you know, kids and adults in their ability

1557
00:52:28,404 --> 00:52:30,505
to be accountable is we have learned

1558
00:52:30,885 --> 00:52:32,824
to use tools like calendar

1559
00:52:33,284 --> 00:52:33,784
reminders

1560
00:52:34,085 --> 00:52:36,244
and the reminders tool on our phone and

1561
00:52:36,244 --> 00:52:37,764
things like that. Like believe me, if I

1562
00:52:37,764 --> 00:52:39,924
did not have my phone I would be

1563
00:52:39,924 --> 00:52:42,505
very very flaky. I would misc everything.

1564
00:52:42,964 --> 00:52:45,889
Yeah. Because I'm I'm used to using these

1565
00:52:45,889 --> 00:52:48,289
tools. Kids are not and young leaders are

1566
00:52:48,289 --> 00:52:50,289
not yet used to using those tools. So

1567
00:52:50,289 --> 00:52:51,809
yeah, that's what I would do. I mean

1568
00:52:51,809 --> 00:52:53,650
that's one example of of how I have

1569
00:52:53,650 --> 00:52:55,989
helped young leaders with their responsibilities.

1570
00:52:56,494 --> 00:52:59,054
But another thing is, again, I think lessons

1571
00:52:59,054 --> 00:53:01,315
learned debriefs are a great thing to do

1572
00:53:01,855 --> 00:53:02,355
with

1573
00:53:02,735 --> 00:53:05,155
as a quorum, as a young man's presidency,

1574
00:53:05,695 --> 00:53:06,594
as a quorum,

1575
00:53:07,054 --> 00:53:08,815
and, you know, whether it's a period of

1576
00:53:08,815 --> 00:53:11,135
time, like, to to to go over the

1577
00:53:11,135 --> 00:53:13,719
quarter. Hey, What's gone well with our activities

1578
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,239
over the last quarter? What's gone well with

1579
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:16,920
our assignments over the last quarter? What hasn't

1580
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,259
gone well? And what can we do to,

1581
00:53:19,559 --> 00:53:21,319
as I say, engineer the solution to make

1582
00:53:21,319 --> 00:53:23,719
it easier for all of us to fulfill

1583
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:24,380
our responsibilities?

1584
00:53:24,885 --> 00:53:26,724
Any thoughts on that, Curt? I love it.

1585
00:53:26,724 --> 00:53:29,304
That's really good. I'm just thinking, like, especially

1586
00:53:29,764 --> 00:53:31,364
even in the world of, like, working with

1587
00:53:31,364 --> 00:53:33,465
YSAs, right, where young single adults,

1588
00:53:33,844 --> 00:53:36,485
where maybe a different generation, it's like, oh,

1589
00:53:36,485 --> 00:53:38,550
yeah. You know, maybe the the six year

1590
00:53:38,550 --> 00:53:39,769
old bishop gets out as

1591
00:53:40,070 --> 00:53:41,050
a Covey planner.

1592
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:42,329
Mhmm. And he's like,

1593
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:44,230
oh, what you do is you gotta write

1594
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:46,390
it down and carry this planner around. Maybe

1595
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:48,230
you just have different tools or skill sets

1596
00:53:48,230 --> 00:53:49,750
as far as remembering things. Right? And so

1597
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:51,750
it's maybe it's a conversation of, you know,

1598
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:51,989
what,

1599
00:53:52,565 --> 00:53:54,085
what works for you to remember that? You

1600
00:53:54,085 --> 00:53:55,285
know, I put mine in my phone, but

1601
00:53:55,285 --> 00:53:57,364
what do you do? You know? Yeah. Because

1602
00:53:57,364 --> 00:53:59,364
maybe the skill set isn't developed. There's not

1603
00:53:59,364 --> 00:53:59,864
necessarily

1604
00:54:00,164 --> 00:54:01,945
they're lazy or irresponsible.

1605
00:54:02,244 --> 00:54:03,765
They just don't know how to do that

1606
00:54:03,765 --> 00:54:06,085
when we're maybe have twenty, thirty years on

1607
00:54:06,085 --> 00:54:08,619
them with remembering things. Right? Exactly. And I

1608
00:54:08,619 --> 00:54:10,619
think that it's not just remembering things. I

1609
00:54:10,619 --> 00:54:11,679
think a lot of times

1610
00:54:12,059 --> 00:54:13,980
we will ask, you know, kind of young

1611
00:54:13,980 --> 00:54:17,179
people to conduct a meeting. And this young

1612
00:54:17,179 --> 00:54:17,679
person,

1613
00:54:18,780 --> 00:54:21,135
you know, like, we would expect that, you

1614
00:54:21,375 --> 00:54:22,894
somebody in their twenties would know how to

1615
00:54:22,894 --> 00:54:24,414
do that. A lot of times they don't.

1616
00:54:24,414 --> 00:54:24,914
Right?

1617
00:54:25,215 --> 00:54:26,195
Give them an agenda.

1618
00:54:26,655 --> 00:54:28,574
Don't assume these people know how to do

1619
00:54:28,574 --> 00:54:31,554
things. And so I'd say and I'm sure

1620
00:54:31,775 --> 00:54:33,855
I'm sure we all know this generally that

1621
00:54:33,855 --> 00:54:36,119
younger people need a little bit more or

1622
00:54:36,119 --> 00:54:39,000
rather less experienced people in the church need

1623
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:40,219
a little bit more

1624
00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:42,299
more training, more tools,

1625
00:54:42,839 --> 00:54:43,900
little more hand holding

1626
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:45,819
and a heck of a lot more patience.

1627
00:54:46,119 --> 00:54:48,359
Yeah. And this brings me to the I

1628
00:54:48,359 --> 00:54:50,494
think this is getting more airtime than in

1629
00:54:50,494 --> 00:54:52,015
the past, but this concept of, you know,

1630
00:54:52,015 --> 00:54:53,855
the youth you know, allowing the youth to

1631
00:54:53,855 --> 00:54:56,094
lead and just this isn't just a necessary

1632
00:54:56,094 --> 00:54:58,094
question in the youth context, but this concept

1633
00:54:58,094 --> 00:55:00,974
of let them fail. Right? What's your opinion

1634
00:55:00,974 --> 00:55:01,795
on that approach

1635
00:55:02,109 --> 00:55:03,630
that, you know, maybe they do need to

1636
00:55:03,630 --> 00:55:04,989
kind of fall on their face for the

1637
00:55:04,989 --> 00:55:07,630
activity one because that'll make activity two a

1638
00:55:07,630 --> 00:55:09,969
little bit better. That's a tough one because

1639
00:55:10,429 --> 00:55:11,409
if they're failing,

1640
00:55:11,710 --> 00:55:14,589
they're also giving a bad experience for all

1641
00:55:14,589 --> 00:55:16,905
of the other boys. Right? Mhmm. Maybe that

1642
00:55:16,905 --> 00:55:18,265
could be a learning experience for the other

1643
00:55:18,265 --> 00:55:18,765
boys.

1644
00:55:19,224 --> 00:55:19,885
I think

1645
00:55:20,265 --> 00:55:23,885
it's easy to say as a youth leader

1646
00:55:24,025 --> 00:55:26,425
to say let them fail. You know, I'm

1647
00:55:26,425 --> 00:55:27,945
just gonna tell them what to do and

1648
00:55:27,945 --> 00:55:29,980
and if they don't do it, then, you

1649
00:55:29,980 --> 00:55:31,480
know, they'll they'll fail

1650
00:55:31,859 --> 00:55:33,159
and they'll learn from that.

1651
00:55:33,460 --> 00:55:34,679
Or it'll just totally

1652
00:55:35,139 --> 00:55:36,119
kill their confidence.

1653
00:55:36,420 --> 00:55:36,920
Right?

1654
00:55:37,380 --> 00:55:38,119
I would

1655
00:55:38,500 --> 00:55:40,659
I would make sure that you're doing everything

1656
00:55:40,659 --> 00:55:41,400
that you can

1657
00:55:41,699 --> 00:55:43,159
to help them succeed.

1658
00:55:43,505 --> 00:55:44,644
And I think there's

1659
00:55:45,025 --> 00:55:46,885
there's a great way of training

1660
00:55:47,265 --> 00:55:48,724
training people and

1661
00:55:49,265 --> 00:55:51,445
it's a four step method of training people.

1662
00:55:51,824 --> 00:55:53,445
It goes, I do,

1663
00:55:53,744 --> 00:55:56,324
you watch. K. So in a youth context,

1664
00:55:56,465 --> 00:55:58,710
that means when I am planning the youth

1665
00:55:58,710 --> 00:56:00,570
activity, I'm gonna invite

1666
00:56:01,110 --> 00:56:03,190
the young man over or the young man's

1667
00:56:03,190 --> 00:56:03,690
presidency

1668
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:06,949
over to watch how do I actually plan

1669
00:56:06,949 --> 00:56:09,690
this activity. Right? Am I making assignments?

1670
00:56:10,244 --> 00:56:11,445
How am I gonna, you know, am I

1671
00:56:11,445 --> 00:56:13,704
gonna make sure that the building is booked?

1672
00:56:13,765 --> 00:56:15,125
I'm gonna make sure that, you know, how

1673
00:56:15,125 --> 00:56:16,805
am I gonna get the materials that we're

1674
00:56:16,805 --> 00:56:18,565
gonna be using? Right? How am I gonna

1675
00:56:18,565 --> 00:56:20,425
coordinate that? So they

1676
00:56:20,724 --> 00:56:23,925
watch me plan it. They watch me execute

1677
00:56:23,925 --> 00:56:24,425
it.

1678
00:56:24,724 --> 00:56:25,865
And, so

1679
00:56:26,300 --> 00:56:28,239
I do, you watch. K?

1680
00:56:28,699 --> 00:56:29,359
And then

1681
00:56:29,980 --> 00:56:32,880
you do, I watch. Oh, shoot. I'm forgetting

1682
00:56:33,019 --> 00:56:33,179
the,

1683
00:56:33,900 --> 00:56:34,800
the four steps.

1684
00:56:35,340 --> 00:56:36,859
But it's a it's a gradual

1685
00:56:37,340 --> 00:56:39,500
Is there a we do in there? That's

1686
00:56:39,500 --> 00:56:41,175
the one. That's the one. Thank you.

1687
00:56:42,135 --> 00:56:43,835
Yes. There's the we do

1688
00:56:44,135 --> 00:56:45,494
and then it's you do and I watch

1689
00:56:45,494 --> 00:56:47,974
and then it's just you do. So, shoot,

1690
00:56:47,974 --> 00:56:49,735
I should have had that memorized off the

1691
00:56:49,735 --> 00:56:51,574
top of my head. But there's a my

1692
00:56:51,574 --> 00:56:53,195
point is is let's gradually

1693
00:56:53,655 --> 00:56:55,640
bring them into that. And step one is

1694
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:57,800
really we need to let them watch how

1695
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,920
we do it before we assist them doing

1696
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,160
it and then before we let them do

1697
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,400
it totally on their own. Yeah. Yeah. That's

1698
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,605
powerful. Really good stuff. Let's

1699
00:57:08,144 --> 00:57:10,224
see. I'll just show this question as well.

1700
00:57:10,224 --> 00:57:13,025
Same Kurt. Not this Kurt, different Kurt. Oh,

1701
00:57:13,025 --> 00:57:14,485
whoops. Let's see. There it goes.

1702
00:57:14,945 --> 00:57:17,105
Do you adjust any of these recommendations when

1703
00:57:17,105 --> 00:57:19,025
you're working with young adults? I think we

1704
00:57:19,025 --> 00:57:21,380
kinda talked about that. They're often on the

1705
00:57:21,380 --> 00:57:23,380
left side of the learning curve unless they

1706
00:57:23,380 --> 00:57:26,980
had handbook associated leadership experiences that taught them

1707
00:57:26,980 --> 00:57:28,920
in the young men's, young women's organization.

1708
00:57:29,460 --> 00:57:31,700
Demo or teach them one principle at a

1709
00:57:31,700 --> 00:57:34,224
time. Model these principles in your meeting with

1710
00:57:34,224 --> 00:57:36,304
them. I don't know. Anything else? It seems

1711
00:57:36,304 --> 00:57:37,744
like you you covered a lot of that.

1712
00:57:37,744 --> 00:57:39,025
I think he was probably typing that as

1713
00:57:39,025 --> 00:57:40,704
I was as I was sharing my, yeah.

1714
00:57:40,704 --> 00:57:42,065
No. It's been it's been in the queue

1715
00:57:42,065 --> 00:57:43,344
here a bit. But yeah. But yeah. For

1716
00:57:43,344 --> 00:57:44,085
sure, model.

1717
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:45,839
Yeah. You need to give people some time

1718
00:57:45,839 --> 00:57:48,500
to model and actually model and debrief.

1719
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,219
So I'll actually give you a business example.

1720
00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:53,519
There was, actually I think it was the

1721
00:57:53,519 --> 00:57:54,960
head I think I read this. It was

1722
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:56,719
the story from the head of HR at

1723
00:57:56,719 --> 00:57:58,555
Google. And he said one of the best

1724
00:57:58,555 --> 00:58:01,434
learning experiences of his life was he right

1725
00:58:01,434 --> 00:58:03,695
out of university, he was hired at McKinsey,

1726
00:58:03,755 --> 00:58:05,994
which is this, you know, consulting firm. It's

1727
00:58:05,994 --> 00:58:08,155
the premier consulting firm. Right? Or regarded as

1728
00:58:08,155 --> 00:58:09,775
the premier consulting firm.

1729
00:58:10,179 --> 00:58:12,179
And before they went out to a client

1730
00:58:12,179 --> 00:58:12,679
site,

1731
00:58:12,980 --> 00:58:15,719
he would a senior consulting partner

1732
00:58:16,019 --> 00:58:17,860
would talk to him and say, okay, what

1733
00:58:17,860 --> 00:58:19,079
do we hope to achieve

1734
00:58:19,460 --> 00:58:21,300
at this? You know, when we go to

1735
00:58:21,300 --> 00:58:23,300
the client site, what are we, you know,

1736
00:58:23,300 --> 00:58:24,599
what are we hoping to achieve?

1737
00:58:24,984 --> 00:58:26,824
What do you think the clients, you know,

1738
00:58:26,824 --> 00:58:28,744
how are you gonna propose that? What do

1739
00:58:28,744 --> 00:58:30,905
you think the client's objections are gonna be?

1740
00:58:30,905 --> 00:58:32,925
How are you gonna respond to those objections?

1741
00:58:33,304 --> 00:58:35,704
Right? And to and just kinda pepper this

1742
00:58:35,704 --> 00:58:38,105
young consultant with a lot of questions to

1743
00:58:38,105 --> 00:58:40,829
prepare them about going into that. And then

1744
00:58:40,829 --> 00:58:43,470
on the drive home, the senior consultant would

1745
00:58:43,470 --> 00:58:44,289
be, okay.

1746
00:58:44,590 --> 00:58:46,590
Did we accomplish what we set out to

1747
00:58:46,590 --> 00:58:47,090
accomplish?

1748
00:58:47,470 --> 00:58:49,230
Did the objections come up that you thought

1749
00:58:49,230 --> 00:58:51,010
would come up? Did you handle those objections

1750
00:58:51,470 --> 00:58:53,230
the way that that you wanted to? Was

1751
00:58:53,230 --> 00:58:54,670
there anything that kind of came out of

1752
00:58:54,670 --> 00:58:56,505
you out of left field that you wanna

1753
00:58:56,505 --> 00:58:58,184
know how to do better next time? He

1754
00:58:58,184 --> 00:59:00,204
said it was the most intense learning experience

1755
00:59:00,344 --> 00:59:01,625
of his life and I think we can

1756
00:59:01,625 --> 00:59:04,664
model that as youth leaders or just kind

1757
00:59:04,664 --> 00:59:07,324
of any leaders when we're going into

1758
00:59:07,784 --> 00:59:10,380
into a situation with somebody is to ask

1759
00:59:10,380 --> 00:59:11,819
them, what do you wanna learn out of

1760
00:59:11,819 --> 00:59:13,039
this this experience?

1761
00:59:13,500 --> 00:59:14,940
And, you know, what do you need to

1762
00:59:14,940 --> 00:59:15,440
prepare

1763
00:59:15,900 --> 00:59:16,960
to do this well?

1764
00:59:17,339 --> 00:59:19,339
And to let you know that we're gonna

1765
00:59:19,339 --> 00:59:21,739
debrief afterwards and say, okay. How did that

1766
00:59:21,739 --> 00:59:23,494
go? What can we do better next time?

1767
00:59:23,494 --> 00:59:25,335
Right? What what went well? What can we

1768
00:59:25,335 --> 00:59:27,015
do better next time? So it's taking that

1769
00:59:27,015 --> 00:59:29,175
lessons learned debrief on a sort of a

1770
00:59:29,175 --> 00:59:29,675
smaller

1771
00:59:30,055 --> 00:59:31,035
individual level.

1772
00:59:31,335 --> 00:59:34,055
Yeah. Really helpful. Love it. Awesome. Well, if

1773
00:59:34,055 --> 00:59:35,575
there's any other questions, now's the time to

1774
00:59:35,575 --> 00:59:37,389
put them in the question box. But in

1775
00:59:37,389 --> 00:59:39,869
the meantime, Michael, I mean, obviously, people can

1776
00:59:39,869 --> 00:59:41,710
grab your book off of Amazon or if

1777
00:59:41,710 --> 00:59:44,429
there's if people wanna learn more about your

1778
00:59:44,429 --> 00:59:46,429
information, your research, your writing, is there any

1779
00:59:46,429 --> 00:59:48,109
place you'd send them? Yeah. I think the

1780
00:59:48,109 --> 00:59:49,230
first place to look is,

1781
00:59:49,894 --> 00:59:52,054
the TED Talk. It's, eleven minutes and it's

1782
00:59:52,054 --> 00:59:53,734
really it's an eleven minute summary of the

1783
00:59:53,734 --> 00:59:56,054
book. Yeah. I have been and so all

1784
00:59:56,054 --> 00:59:57,574
you need to do is just Google Michael

1785
00:59:57,574 --> 01:00:00,295
Timms, t I m m s, TED, and

1786
01:00:00,295 --> 01:00:01,889
it'll be the first thing that'll pop up.

1787
01:00:01,969 --> 01:00:03,809
Cool. And I'll actually post it in the

1788
01:00:03,809 --> 01:00:06,130
in the general discussion in Zine Labs so

1789
01:00:06,130 --> 01:00:08,069
that I think it'll start a great discussion

1790
01:00:08,369 --> 01:00:10,929
outside of this interview as well. Cool. Yeah.

1791
01:00:10,929 --> 01:00:12,210
So that would probably be the first place

1792
01:00:12,210 --> 01:00:14,130
to look. Like I said, it's eleven minutes.

1793
01:00:14,130 --> 01:00:15,809
And if you find that that that's interesting,

1794
01:00:15,809 --> 01:00:17,589
I think the next place would be

1795
01:00:18,324 --> 01:00:20,244
YouTube channel. You can go to you can

1796
01:00:20,244 --> 01:00:21,765
just go michaeltims.com

1797
01:00:21,765 --> 01:00:23,605
and you can find a lot of articles

1798
01:00:23,605 --> 01:00:25,525
that I've published and then as well the

1799
01:00:25,525 --> 01:00:27,545
book, how leaders can inspire

1800
01:00:28,085 --> 01:00:28,585
accountability.

1801
01:00:29,125 --> 01:00:31,045
Awesome. Really good. Well, last question I have

1802
01:00:31,045 --> 01:00:33,210
for you, Michael, is as you reflect on

1803
01:00:33,210 --> 01:00:35,769
your research in leadership or this in your

1804
01:00:35,769 --> 01:00:36,590
personal leadership,

1805
01:00:37,130 --> 01:00:39,369
journey, how has being a leader helped you

1806
01:00:39,369 --> 01:00:41,769
become a better disciple or follower of Jesus

1807
01:00:41,769 --> 01:00:42,269
Christ?

1808
01:00:42,730 --> 01:00:45,265
Yeah. You know, it's interesting that the principles

1809
01:00:45,265 --> 01:00:48,224
of leadership becoming a better leader really helps

1810
01:00:48,224 --> 01:00:50,324
you become a better human being.

1811
01:00:50,704 --> 01:00:52,704
It has for sure, like, I know a

1812
01:00:52,704 --> 01:00:54,224
lot of times people say, oh, well, you

1813
01:00:54,224 --> 01:00:56,785
know, a key leadership attribute is humility. Okay.

1814
01:00:56,785 --> 01:00:58,860
Well, what are the exact behaviors? Like, what?

1815
01:00:58,940 --> 01:01:01,579
Sure. Like, everybody thinks they're humble. Right? But

1816
01:01:01,660 --> 01:01:03,420
I know I am. But Yeah. Exactly. I

1817
01:01:03,420 --> 01:01:05,019
could teach a class on humility. Let me

1818
01:01:05,019 --> 01:01:05,680
tell you.

1819
01:01:06,780 --> 01:01:09,900
So no. But so I think learning to

1820
01:01:09,900 --> 01:01:12,140
be a better leader, take the attribute of

1821
01:01:12,140 --> 01:01:14,140
of humility. What are the behaviors? Let's drill

1822
01:01:14,140 --> 01:01:16,114
down there of humility. And I think one

1823
01:01:16,114 --> 01:01:18,195
of the key aspects of humility is looking

1824
01:01:18,195 --> 01:01:20,514
in the mirror and saying, you know, how

1825
01:01:20,514 --> 01:01:21,974
am I causing

1826
01:01:22,275 --> 01:01:23,815
or how have I contributed

1827
01:01:24,355 --> 01:01:25,494
to my own problems?

1828
01:01:25,795 --> 01:01:27,474
That has helped me be a better human

1829
01:01:27,474 --> 01:01:30,320
being. It's helped me be and get better

1830
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:32,559
results, not just at work but in life

1831
01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:34,159
because there are so many people who walk

1832
01:01:34,159 --> 01:01:34,659
around

1833
01:01:35,039 --> 01:01:35,539
thinking

1834
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:37,599
that, you know, all of the bad things

1835
01:01:37,599 --> 01:01:39,199
that happened to them are because of other

1836
01:01:39,199 --> 01:01:40,420
people or bad circumstances.

1837
01:01:41,039 --> 01:01:42,960
And if you have that mindset, you know,

1838
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,055
you're gonna have you're gonna be if you

1839
01:01:45,055 --> 01:01:46,974
you are taking on that kind of victim

1840
01:01:46,974 --> 01:01:49,454
mentality mindset and you're never gonna figure out

1841
01:01:49,454 --> 01:01:51,315
how to make your future better than your

1842
01:01:51,535 --> 01:01:53,614
past. But also getting back to that theme

1843
01:01:53,614 --> 01:01:54,195
of humility,

1844
01:01:54,574 --> 01:01:57,775
sincerely asking for feedback. Hey, how can I

1845
01:01:57,775 --> 01:01:59,510
do better at leading

1846
01:01:59,969 --> 01:02:01,750
meetings? How can I do better at this?

1847
01:02:01,890 --> 01:02:02,869
That's a behavior

1848
01:02:03,489 --> 01:02:06,610
that demonstrates, you know, asking somebody for advice

1849
01:02:06,610 --> 01:02:07,590
that is demonstrating

1850
01:02:07,890 --> 01:02:08,390
humility,

1851
01:02:08,769 --> 01:02:09,269
right?

1852
01:02:09,570 --> 01:02:11,570
And it's made me, like I said, a

1853
01:02:11,570 --> 01:02:13,570
better leader, it's made me a better human

1854
01:02:13,570 --> 01:02:17,224
being And we know that that's that's a

1855
01:02:17,224 --> 01:02:20,264
key attribute of being a disciple of Jesus

1856
01:02:20,264 --> 01:02:22,684
Christ is to be meek and humble.

1857
01:02:27,464 --> 01:02:28,744
Hey. You made it to the end of

1858
01:02:28,744 --> 01:02:30,980
the episode. Wasn't that so good? You know,

1859
01:02:30,980 --> 01:02:32,820
I tend to pinch myself that this is

1860
01:02:32,820 --> 01:02:33,940
what I get to do. I get to

1861
01:02:33,940 --> 01:02:36,900
sit down with some remarkable people across the

1862
01:02:36,900 --> 01:02:41,059
world, experts, everyday leaders, PhDs, therapists, whatever it

1863
01:02:41,059 --> 01:02:43,079
be, and have such an impactful

1864
01:02:43,380 --> 01:02:45,264
conversation. I hope you'll share it, Drop it

1865
01:02:45,264 --> 01:02:47,425
into text message and email and share it

1866
01:02:47,425 --> 01:02:49,664
to someone who maybe came to mind during

1867
01:02:49,664 --> 01:02:50,244
this episode.

1868
01:02:50,545 --> 01:02:51,664
And if you go to the show notes

1869
01:02:51,664 --> 01:02:53,344
and scroll to the bottom, there's actually a

1870
01:02:53,344 --> 01:02:55,824
list of some of our most popular episodes.

1871
01:02:55,824 --> 01:02:57,664
So don't stop with this episode. I mean,

1872
01:02:57,664 --> 01:02:59,105
you're not done with the dishes or mowing

1873
01:02:59,105 --> 01:03:00,659
the lawn or working out, so you might

1874
01:03:00,659 --> 01:03:02,579
as well keep it going at the bottom

1875
01:03:02,579 --> 01:03:04,760
of those show notes and, make sure you

1876
01:03:04,900 --> 01:03:06,420
listen to each one maybe a couple of

1877
01:03:06,420 --> 01:03:07,719
times on a few of them.

1878
01:03:17,355 --> 01:03:19,835
It came as a result of the position

1879
01:03:19,835 --> 01:03:22,894
of leadership which was imposed upon us

1880
01:03:23,275 --> 01:03:25,375
by the God of heaven who brought

1881
01:03:25,679 --> 01:03:29,059
forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus

1882
01:03:29,119 --> 01:03:29,619
Christ.

1883
01:03:30,239 --> 01:03:31,380
And when the declaration

1884
01:03:31,679 --> 01:03:34,960
was made concerning the own and only true

1885
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,359
and living Church upon the face of the

1886
01:03:37,359 --> 01:03:37,784
earth,

1887
01:03:38,344 --> 01:03:41,005
We were immediately put in a position of

1888
01:03:41,144 --> 01:03:41,644
loneliness,

1889
01:03:42,025 --> 01:03:43,565
the loneliness of leadership

1890
01:03:44,264 --> 01:03:47,244
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,

1891
01:03:48,025 --> 01:03:50,424
and to which we must face up with

1892
01:03:50,424 --> 01:03:51,964
boldness and courage

1893
01:03:52,505 --> 01:03:53,324
and ability.