Alright. Here's our goal, folks. Leading Saints is
no longer a podcast. Well, obviously, we are
a podcast. We will continue to podcast, but
we're really shifting our focus over to Zion
Lab, which is an online community
put on and developed by Leading Saints. And
this is where we wanna go and gather
the masses
and share ideas about leadership, share ideas about
different calling, share ideas about building Zion.
And this is the place that we wanna
make online where all things are discussed, great
ideas are shared, and then we can help
one another in whatever calling we're in or
what calling we're not in to feel like,
you know, I've got purpose here. I can
really make a difference in shifting culture in
a better way or developing Zion in my
own corner of the kingdom. So join us
over at zion lab at leading saints dot
org slash zion,
And there, you can just jump in. It's
free to join and create a profile and
jump in and and look around and answer
some questions, leave a comment, pose a question,
and I think you'll benefit from the things
we're doing over at Zion Lab. So join
us.
So my name is Kurt Frankem, and I
am the founder and executive director of Leading
Saints and, obviously, the host of the Leading
Saints podcast. Now I started Leading Saints back
in 2010. It was just a hobby blog,
and it grew from there. By the time,
2014
came around, we started the podcast and that's
really when it got some,
traction and took off, 2016.
We became a five zero one c three
nonprofit organization and we've been growing ever since.
And now I get the opportunity of interviewing
and talking with remarkable people all over the
world. Now this is a segment we do
on the Leading Saints podcast called How I
Lead, and we reach out to everyday leaders.
They're not experts, gurus, authors, PhDs. They're just
everyday leaders who've been asked to serve in
a specific leadership calling, and we simply ask
them, how is it that you lead? And
they go through some remarkable principles that should
be in a book, that should be behind
a PhD. They're usually that good. And, we
just talk about, sharing what the other guy
is doing. And I remember being a leader
just simply wanting to know, okay. I know
what I'm trying to do, but what's the
other guy doing? What's working for him? And
so that's why every Wednesday or so, we
publish these how I lead segments to share.
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to a how I
lead interview on the Leading Saints podcast. This
was originally recorded over at Zion Lab, which
is our online
community
and archive of all things
leadership and Zion building. Is that a good
way to to frame? I I like that.
I like that. Definitely make sure you're over
at Zion Lab to participate in the discussions
happening there. So many interesting,
concepts and perspectives and best practices being shared
there. And Eric Richards is
one of those individuals
in Zion Lab, and I wanted to interview
him. This is a long time coming. Me
and Eric have been, communicating and talking about
getting him on the podcast. I'm so glad
it's finally
recorded. He is one of our Seminary Institute
guys, and I love interviewing these guys with
so much experience and
strong perspectives of the gospel and doctoral knowledge.
He teaches at the institute
up in Logan, Utah, and he's also a
very popular speaker at BYU Education Week every
year. I always enjoy sitting in on his
classes there. So much to learn. He's
full of energy, dynamic speaker.
And in this episode, we talk about some
of the principles that he's put in place,
him and his ward and his ward council,
as him serving as bishop. And listen just
to you're you're gonna enjoy this episode for
various reasons, but I would love more of
these types of interviews
where an individual is just willing to come
on and say, hey. This is what we're
doing and why. And they're very, like there
there may be a lot of intricacies here
that you don't think about or you think,
oh, it's just this little idea we had
as a award. We'll we'll share it. Let
us know how it's going. And so I
would love to hear from any leader, whether
it's in primary,
nursery,
young men, young women,
and share with us what are what are
you doing in your calling that's that's working
or not working? What have you tried that's
failed? I mean, we can learn together so
much of this. And so this is a
great model of the type of content we're
looking for at Leading Saints. And you're gonna
benefit so much from how,
how bishop Richards goes about, you know,
coaching and
encouraging his, his speakers and teachers, how he
approaches interviews and invites the revelation,
personal revelation of the individual into that interview
concept.
We're gonna talk about ministering interviews and ministering
in the word in general and overall just
how to
stimulate joy in your in your word, in
your faith community, and that you'll be inspired
by this episode for sure, one to share.
And Eric is is over at the Zion
Lab. So head on over there after listening
to this and thank him. Go to send
him a DM in the, Zion Lab and
thank him and or ask him additional questions.
Let's keep the conversation going. You can either
comment on the on this episode over at
Zion Lab or send him a direct message,
and let's keep the conversation going. So here's
my interview with Eric Richards.
Let's jump into this Eric. Maybe just I
mean, I know you from, just sitting in
a lot of your BYU Education Week, sessions,
and always, just love all that you teach,
and there's so much to to to learn
from you as you you know, I just
remember so many of your slides that were
were helpful and and perspective.
So put yourself in the context for those
who may not be
as familiar with you.
I'm
boring.
I I work, for seminaries and institutes. Currently,
I'm just, have a great assignment at the
Logan Institute of Religion. Logan's about an hour
and a half north of Salt Lake City,
and it's been awesome. Love it. I started
teaching in 1996,
and,
it's crazy how fast thirty years can can
go by. Yeah.
So, yeah, I'm a dad,
husband,
and
I'm I'm probably the most boring guest you'll
have on
all year. Well, we'll be the judge of
that, so we'll see.
And, I mean, as you do do you
feel like you've,
you know, as you put different
message together or talks or firesides or things,
is there,
core messages that you keep coming back to?
Jesus Christ. Okay. That's good. That is my
my absolute foundation. I love him. I love
to bear witness of him. I love to
connect principles back to him.
And I think of an approach with any
leader,
especially within our our faith, is connecting people
to Jesus Christ. That's that's why we're here.
Yeah. Yeah. And, really, you know, from a
leadership perspective, that's truly all we we wanna
do at the in the end. You know,
we're not there to facilitate much more than,
hopefully, a a stronger relationship with Jesus Christ
and repentance and redemption and and all the
things that come with it.
Yeah. So true. And your and your works
are awesome. Just that hope that you
you're a guy that just personifies
hope. Hope,
in Christ. I I love that. So thanks
for all your work. Awesome.
So where's a good jumping off point when
it comes to this topic of, you know,
lesser known ideas to help members connect with
with Jesus Christ? Yeah. I
I'd love to to jump in and maybe
start.
I got called
almost three years ago to be a bishop.
I didn't know how that process worked.
I'd served in, you know, Bishop Ricks.
I'm I'm the world's best executive secretary. I've
had that calling four times,
been on the high council twice.
I didn't know what it's like to be
called as a bishop. Our amazing stake president,
Eric Anderson,
he brought my wife and I in, of
course, meets with her to make sure that,
you know, things are good and safe at
home,
and then brings me in. And then and
I'm sure each state president is different, but
he read the letter from the first presidency,
and that was awesome. I'm not sure if
every state president does that, but for me
to see my name,
in a letter from
from our
our prophet,
was amazing and just confirming that, yeah, I'm
this is I'm I'm the guy that the
lord wants the next couple of years, and
it it helped wipe away a lot of
the doubts and insecurities of that moment. So
that was absolutely incredible,
to see. If any state presence are are
listening in, I would highly recommend that because
it's, it was just so good. It's so
good.
Yeah. A lot of confidence comes from that.
You know? So Yeah. Yeah. I learned early
on too.
The
the the Bishop's helpline
is such a blessing.
It it one way of conversations. I had,
one of my students asked, you know, they'd
heard a lot of us have heard that,
you know, the helpline is there to, you
know, to to, you know, to keep keep
the church from getting sued. I asked that
question once to one of the, the lawyers,
and he, without a second's hesitation, said, that's
exactly why we're here. We follow the law.
We wanna make sure that there are no
losses, that we're doing things the right way,
the the legal way.
And I have relied on them for so
many I mean, just
things you just you don't know. You know,
you grow up and you hear some things
that you don't know exactly how the laws
work, especially state to state, and
they have been such a blessing,
to me.
You know, one asked in a conversation, I
had a a ward member that was very
concerned about, we don't do background checks.
And and, you know, I I coach,
water polo, and there's so much safe sport.
Obviously, in the church, there's a a good
training to protect youth and children. And so
I asked that question.
He said, Eric,
do you know what a background check looks
at? And I said,
I kinda think maybe, but teach me. And
he says most people think that the background
check will ensure,
you know, education,
work history, driving history, their arrest record, criminal
history,
lawsuits,
aliases, debts,
credit score, Social Security number, date of birth,
are they on the sex offender website,
address history, social media review,
CPS history,
you know, anything with marriage or divorce,
are they on the terrorist watch list?
And
he says, which which of those does
the background check check?
I I had no idea. And you're you
probably know, but
he said, here's what a background check, looks
for.
Criminal history within the last seven years,
which, you know, kind of narrows it a
little bit, but, boy, it also leads a
lot off the table. It looks at aliases.
Are you say who you say you are?
Does your social match your name?
Are you on the sex offender website? Do
you live where you say you live? Is
your birthday accurate? And are you on the
terrorist watch list?
He says it is it is a good
safeguard,
and in addition, we have so many other
safeguards.
The system we have to sustain
members
is a safeguard.
We wanna look at this brother, that sister,
and if we know something about them,
we have a chance to, to voice that.
We have a membership record number system that
is very protective.
If a member moves from one area to
another
and something big has happened, that record can
be annotated
to keep people
safe.
Too deep leadership,
allowing youth to bring in an adult if
they'd like to to a bishop's interview. There
are so many safeguards in place, and I'm
personally grateful. I wanna I wanna I want
to follow the law, and I want to
keep people safe. And that that helpline has
been such a such a blessing to me
personally and ecclesiastically
as well.
Yeah. So true. And, you know, going through
so many interviews, I remember, you know, you
just hear something you think, I don't know.
Is that is there more to that? Like
and and it's so nice just to have
a place to call and say, this is
what happened. Like, should I be concerned? And,
you know, a lot of times, like, oh,
no. You know, not no big deal there.
But when you know, it was so nice
to be able to rest easy knowing that,
I'm not missing anything or taking
or avoiding steps that I should be taking,
you know, so really good.
So with with interviews, like, when it comes
to, you know, just,
connecting people with Jesus Christ
as as a bishop, as a leader, you
know, especially as a bishop. But as a
leader, there's a lot of interviews going on.
And how how's your approach, or what can
we learn about that interview process with Revelation?
Oh, I love that. Thank you for asking.
I, heavenly
father, he is so good to bishops,
and and I'm just I'm I'm grateful.
When when someone texts me,
directly,
I'll usually ask them a a question. You
You know? First of all, I just thank
them. Thank you for looping me in. I
I'm here to serve. I love you. I
would love to sit in council.
And depending on the nature
of the situation or the individual, I'll I'll
usually ask a couple of questions. The first
one I like to
post to them is, just what level they
are at
in their problem solving.
You know, level one, you know,
you've solved a problem and you wanna talk
about the outcomes you're seeing.
Level two, you're having a problem,
You've identified maybe a few possible solutions,
and you'd like my advice on which one
might work best.
Three, you know, you you have a problem,
and you want me to recommend possible solutions.
Or, and you can probably guess number four,
you want me to try to solve your
problems for you.
Yeah. And, I like that. It just it
helps them realize that, yeah, I am a
resource,
but the source
is our heavenly father and our savior, Jesus
Christ.
And so giving them that moment of pause
to think, oh, yeah. I
yeah. I I yeah. I want the bishop
to solve my problem. That doesn't seem right.
It allows them some time to spend with
their savior.
And that's been helpful for me. Yeah. When
someone comes in and they have problems and
maybe they're they're having trouble seeing some solutions,
I always try to package it as gently
and kindly, especially if if it's gonna be
some difficult counsel, hard counsel
for them to hear.
I'll I'll kinda tease and call it hot
sauce. Like, okay. I've got some hot sauce,
and
I kinda use you've probably heard the the
compliment sandwich model where
you you build them up and
you love them.
In the middle, here comes a little bit
of hot sauce. Something that might be
contrary to what they are thinking or have
considered,
and then finishing it off again with more
love and more compliments. It seems to
help them metabolize
something that might be a little bit troublesome
for them to, to understand at first.
Yeah. Yeah. And I I'd love this broach,
you know, those where there are four different
the kind of sort of perspectives to take
into, an interviewer trying to figure out what
what you're trying to accomplish there,
that connecting it to revelation. Like, you're not
there to solve their problem or to give
them the right answer, but maybe to help
them stimulate personal revelation
that will lead to
the solution or the next step or, you
know, whatever it is that that needs to
happen. Yeah. And again, that's that's our role
as leaders. Well, yes, as leaders, but just
as friends. We want to connect people to
Jesus Christ.
And I think how we structure those conversations,
those are sacred.
And so, you know, just starting off with,
you know, Kurt, I you know,
I'm I'm here to hold space for you.
You know, when when the time is right,
I'd be honored to have you invite me
in for some counsel. I'm gonna give you
a 100% during our time.
Tell me what role you want me to
play. Yeah. Do you want me to just
rally with you? Do you want me to
to be more of an educator? Do you
want me to strategize?
Or do you want me just to listen?
Or is it a little bit of all
of the above? Kinda let them set the
tone for that time together.
I love to ask them, you know, if
this was the most important conversation
of your entire life,
What would happen during our time together?
And, again, it allows them to kinda reframe
that I'm trying to connect them with their
with their heavenly father in Jesus Christ. I'm
the guide on the side. I'm the Sherpa
that wants to take some of the weight
off of their backpack
so they can have,
maybe an easier ascent up to to,
connect with with the divine.
I love to ask you now, who have
you brought in with you today?
Because they'll
think, oh, in other words, who is this
affecting besides just you? Mhmm. And it helps
them kinda see how big their problem is
and who else is being affected.
I always ask, you know, just as a
baseline, you know, tell me about diet, sleep,
and exercise. No matter what the problem is,
let's just make sure that you're taking care
of your physical body, that gift from our
heavenly father.
And then I always ask them about CPR.
Tell me about church. Tell me about prayer.
Tell me about reading. I have to throw
a t in there. Tell me about the
temple. How's that been? Just to get a
baseline so I know where they're at in
order, to help them
learn more about receiving,
revelation.
I asked, who do you turn for,
for support?
Who's in your circle?
Have you have you had situations like this
in the past? What did you do to
solve those problems with heavenly father's help?
I'd love to ask you, if if your
life were a movie
and everyone's watching it, what would your friends
be saying at this moment?
That allows them to to kind of take
a step back
and realize they may have had some answers
to prayers from friends and maybe other leaders
that they hadn't considered
as being answers to their prayers.
You've heard, I'm sure, of the the miracle
pill. You know, Curtis, you could wake up
tomorrow
and and all your this problem was solved.
What would the perfect solution look like?
And they start to process
what really needs to to happen.
And then the follow-up, let's say, heavenly father
did not change anything.
What would you start doing tomorrow?
Because he goes, wow. Boy, if he if
I can't get over my anxiety, let's just
say that's gonna be with me forever.
What would I do tomorrow knowing that I
have to to deal with this demon for
the next, you know, ten or twenty years?
Well, I'd probably and here comes their answers.
I'd probably go to the temple. I'd probably,
you know, that's all of a sudden, revelation
starts to, to flow. And at the end,
Kurt, I I love giving them a vision.
I I love that where at the end,
I just see how Kurt and I can
see you.
I can see you in a happy marriage.
Oh, I can see you with kids.
It's Christmas. Kids are gathered, and I can
see with this happy family.
I can see you, you know, ordaining that
that son of yours. I just giving them
that vision, I think, lifts their sights and
helps them know that heavenly father is there
ready to to be a blessing to them.
So those are little things I've done in
interviews that have been been very
it seemed to have helped helped quite a
bit. Yeah. That that makes a lot of
sense. I just love that, you know, giving
them that vision because you're,
you know, one therapist taught me just like
the the church leader's role is to is
to drive the hope train, and you can
just give them hope and hope and hope.
You don't have to, you know, diagnose them
or figure out what what they need next.
It was like, you can definitely give them
hope because that's the you can always give
hope when you're focused on Christ because he
is, you know, he's the center of that
hope.
And I appreciate you know, this is something
I've really tried to discipline myself with, obviously,
not necessarily in in church leadership interviews, but,
you know, I often meet people or have
people reach out to me and maybe have
have a question that relates to leading saints
or some. You know? I've spent a lot
of time in this space, so maybe I
have some perspective to share. And as they're
asking the question or or,
laying out the scenario that they're in or
the issue that they're struggling with, like, naturally,
like, I've got two two scriptures I could
share. I got all that. I got a
great quote or, oh, I know exactly the
one or two episodes they gotta listen to.
Right? And I almost wanna be like, oh,
here's your answer. I wanna jump Right. And
to be like, here it is. Like, I've
I know something about this that I can
share with you, but I always try and
discipline myself to say, actually, I'm gonna ask
a few questions
to better understand what it is they're asking
or what it is that they're trying to
articulate. And I've always noticed that
I either,
discovered that they have a lot of the
answer that I was about to just spring
on them. They already know a lot of
it, or I didn't understand fully what they
were asking or what the the issue was.
And so I just love that some of
these strategies lay layout that kinda allow a
leader to pump the brakes a little bit
and say, okay, well, wait a minute before
we get into the issue. Right. And I
remember
very common scenario, you know, a confession type
of thing where someone comes in and they're
like
just carrying this burden and they're just, they
can't, they want to get it on that
desk as quickly as possible. Right? Like here,
take it. And,
which is natural, and they get there. And
so naturally, we wanna hurry and fix the
issue that they just laid on that desk.
But to just say, hey. Before we jump
into that and the details of maybe what
you're struggling with, let's what let's better understand
why we're here. Like, what are you looking
for with this problem? Do you want me
to fix it, or are you just here
to tell me? Right? The the things that
you said. Yeah. It's really powerful. The hope
train. I love it. And the principle you're
teaching, you know, I I was it elder
Bednar that said that the best lessons are
caught and not taught?
Mhmm. Interesting. If they can catch their own
answers, that's so much better than anything you
or I could could ever say. And and
to leave them just, again, with that hope,
you know,
faith, you know, you take Lemuel and Lemuel.
When remember, Nephi had his vision and they
were frustrated they didn't have the same vision,
and Nephi asked them, have you inquired of
the Lord? And, of course, their answer is
no. The Lord maketh no such thing known
unto us.
Notice their they they testify that they believe
in God. They just said there is a
Lord,
and that
he also reveals things. They testified
of personal revelation.
They have faith in several elements,
but they didn't have hope. Hope being Mhmm.
That it would apply
to them.
The same thing, Alma 33 where,
the fiery flying serpents.
Right? Many did not
look because they did not think it would
heal
them.
They knew. They had faith in the fact
that people were getting healed,
but they didn't think it applied to them.
That's the difference between hope and faith. We
can have faith in a lot of things,
but that hope seems to be just a
personal application of all these truths that it
is. Yes. God answers my neighbor's prayers, but
I know that he answers my prayer. Yes.
The atonement can take care of of that
individual and their
sinfulness.
But once we know that his atonement works
for us, that's when that hope really see
seems to, to sink in.
Yeah. I mean, that's so true. Hope is
really just a personal experience where and, you
know, we've all experienced this. You you literally
have, like, a return missionary
there who's struggling with hope, but
they just spent years, like, preaching their faith.
They obviously have faith, but it's that hope
component that they're that they're struggling with. Right?
Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. So true. Anything
else about interviews and and
stimulating revelation, or do we cover it pretty
well?
The the only other thing I'd add here,
you know,
our world,
with interviews, you know, the a lot of
times people come in burdened with pornography. And
this is, I know, a topic of yours
that you have, you've done great work with
and have passion for as
as do I. And I in some of
those interviews, just helping
them know first of all, there's there's forgiveness
and there's a path forward. But,
helping people understand that their habit with,
pornography,
is more likely a a psychosocial
developmental
stage of life
more than a sexual issue.
You know, I I use an analogy of,
you know, Seattle, Washington where it rains most
every single day. If you're in a rainstorm,
is the rain going to kill you?
No. Yeah. But it's uncomfortable.
And so people in Seattle and other places
where it rains often, they'll grab an umbrella
to make sure when it does rain that
they're protected.
The same is true when we are bored,
lonely, angry, stressed, tired, the the blast, b
l a s t, acronym.
Our brains it's not comfortable to feel that
way. So our brain wants to grab an
umbrella.
There's some umbrellas that are on the covenant
path and some that are off the covenant
path. And if someone has,
gone into the the habit of of pornography,
they've kinda trained that brain to look for
those those umbrellas that are they're a little
bit off that that covenant path,
helping them just focus on, you know, emotional
growth in addition to, you know, spirituality, chastity,
things like that.
Reminding them that guilt is so good. It's
good that you feel guilty because people that
do,
things contrary to their character and feel no
guilt, those are sociopaths.
Right? Right. But shame,
as you know, shame is Yeah. Satanic.
And,
it helps them. Even with with the younger
people I meet with, reminding them that their
prefrontal cortex, you know, doesn't develop fully until
age 25, and that cortex is the breaking
system for our brains.
And as a result, you know, those teenage
and early young adult years,
we're kinda driven by impulse,
unfortunately. Now, heavenly father can help us make
wise decisions.
We can keep covenants. But
part of this stage of life is learning,
to to have those, more logical approaches and
covenant based choices when it comes to to
things like pornography.
I've seen a lot of people that, you
know, they'll
they kinda have two choices. At least they
think they have two choices. Either they can
just will power. I'm not gonna look. Not
gonna look. Not gonna look.
But because we're human, eventually, we get tired
and
we give in. And that cycle goes over
and over and over again. It's almost like
trying to hold your breath. Some people feel
like, okay, I'm not gonna look. I'm just
gonna hold my breath. I'm gonna white knuckle
this. And eventually, because we're mammals, we we
have to inhale. Eventually, those slip ups will
happen.
Helping them see kind of what leads to
their,
their use.
You know, working gently, you know, just about
their background. Maybe help them see why. Is
this a have you been through
some
habit you've,
you know, stumbled into, were exposed to, and
now have. And every time, it's always, you
know, let's get you some professional help. There's
group therapy that the data is awesome. There's
one on one therapy. There's been more,
trauma. There's some comorbidity
there. Those therapists are are so good.
Inviting them to make a little vision board,
like, what do you want in your life?
Just
let's let's put words to paper.
What do you want? Career, family,
car,
your your home, kids. Let's probably and put
that somewhere where you're gonna see it. Inviting
them to review their patriarchal blessing,
to look for their strengths and pray for
those strengths to be strengthened. As our strengths
get strengthened, our our weaknesses
get weakened.
And giving them little hope along the way
that there is, there is hope for them.
And also reminding them that, you know, when
they do have those stumbles,
all is not lost. Yes. You build up
some good myelonin sheets in your brain, through
that neuroplasticity.
And if you've had a slip up, you
know, you're not back to square one. It's
not chutes and ladders. If you're driving from,
you know, California to New York and you
take a wrong turn in Omaha, Nebraska,
you don't drive all the way back to
San Diego to re you know, get your
trip finished up to New York. You just
reroute and you you finish the trip. But
I think messages like that that are, again,
hopeful,
have just been helpful and encouraging for the
people that I'm able to to meet with
and sit and counsel with.
Yeah. So true where, you know, especially in
that maybe that confession, repentance, or the, you
know, pornography dynamic of it that the behavior,
the negative behavior can have such a gravitational
pull on our focus of being like, okay.
Well, let's just get rid of the behavior.
And then and then those other things will
figure it out. But if you step back
and say, well, okay. We recognize the behavior
is there, and we recognize that it's nothing
that you wanna continue to do.
But let's step back and say, you know,
what, where can we find hope and start
to drill down on these other components that
that are going on? I remember,
a good friend reached out to me who
was struggling with pornography and, and it's so
and and and I'm recognizing that gravitational pull
of that behavior. And so I'm just saying,
actually, let's just step into your personal laboratory.
And over the next few weeks, like, will
you have relapses?
Probably.
But when those relapses happen, let's not necessarily
focus on the the shame that you feel,
but let's just say, wow. This is interesting.
Like, this happened. And why is that? Like
Yeah. I was I was bored that day
or, I mean, a really stressful time of
it was this really stressful week. Like, okay.
These are indicators that we can note and
start to understand and and if fuse with
hope in those areas. And then over time,
our hope would be that that that negative
behavior goes away because we are new creatures,
not necessarily because we're, you know, we can
hold our breath longer. Right? Right.
Yeah. Yeah. Data. Looking at those slip ups
is just data. You're just over the next
few weeks, you're collecting data to see what
your triggers are and what's fueling
this.
And, eventually, to become a person that is
tempted,
and
that they know how to make covenant based
decisions and Yeah.
Decisions that align with their values.
Yeah. Really powerful.
Let's jump to, supporting speakers and teachers. I
think this is, always a concern for church
leaders that wanna, you know, encourage their their
teachers and speakers. So where's a good good
place to start there?
I'm sure I'm wearing bishop goggles.
I would take some of our sacrament meeting
talks, and I think they're some of the
best in the church. It has been delightful.
We asked the speakers,
especially if they're newer, you know, introduce yourselves
briefly.
I know some people if our our kids,
they kind of joke. Like, someone's been in
the ward for, you know, twenty five years.
For those that don't know me, now okay.
We we know you. You've been here forever.
So a brief introduction.
And then we've asked them, Kurt, to share
a story,
a defining moment from their life,
an up or a down,
a success
or a slump.
We ask them to be be brave, to
to lean into vulnerability.
The idea being that hearts are usually healed
and
souls are unified through that little bit of
openness.
And then tying their experience
back to
a story from our savior Jesus Christ and
testifying of him.
And
these talks and we usually have three speakers.
We have, three speakers and we we do
a musical number every week. The Lord, for
some reason, has brought musical tell into our
port like no other. So we have a
musical number every week, and
and, it's been absolutely incredible,
the vulnerability.
Because you know what happens? After their talk,
all of a sudden,
their net and their neighbor, hey. Yeah. You
talked about your mom passing away. My mom
passed away too. How's it been for you?
The post church life of us as a
community, I think, is is really what church
is all about. I often say that church
begins after the closing prayer is said,
because that's really what we're here about is
is connecting people together, and so to be
vulnerable. Now, we don't obviously force them. We
don't, you know, you must do this. But
if they are willing
to speak from the heart more than from
the head,
Boy, those have been just absolutely amazing, amazing
messages.
Yeah. And really, it's,
the you know, the more you encourage that,
again, you can't force people to be vulnerable.
But but you can, like create examples of
that. Right? And so
you find the three or four individuals who
are willing to be a little more vulnerable,
that creates safety in that container so that
those in other individuals stand out, stand up
and get a little bit more vulnerable. And
like you said, then church can really begin
after those as we minister to one another
and connect.
Yeah. One thing we do to help that
too, we have, ward historians, which is one
of the most overlooked callings in the church.
The the new the theunithistory.churchofjesuschrist.org
is awesome.
You know it. Yeah. You can put pictures.
We have people historians call. They'll take notes
during sacrament meeting
and,
publish those and send it to the speaker.
Hey. During your talk, this is what I
got out of it. Here's what I heard.
And, boy, you talk about a validation.
Like, oh, you never when someone listened to
my talk, they remembered what I said, and
they they wrote stuff down.
Boy, it's
that's been a game changer for us.
Yeah. Yeah. We did a whole, I did
a whole interview with, I wanna say she
was in
the Washington area where she's just really dialed
in this this unit history tool that the
church has put out. And, it's amazing what
you can do, and and it really helps
engage
those who, would benefit you know, who are
really good at that. They they love doing
it. So Yeah. We had a a a
sister
who
genius. Her notes were all it was almost
too much. Like, she almost a stenographer.
But,
man, I I can look back during her
time in that calling. I I can tell
you almost word for word what happened at
every SACRA meeting. So to find people those
skills that, they are natural writers,
boy, it's it's a game changer. So Yeah.
Amen, amen on on that, that app and
and that, that calling.
And so review it one more time as
far as, like, so this is specifically
with sacrament speakers. You ask them to connect
it to a story of Christ or how
how did you say that? Yeah. Share we
call it share your story, just an experience
they've had and then connect that to Jesus
Christ.
Yeah.
Yeah. That's powerful. That's powerful.
We've asked, you know,
almost the opposite is where does this sounds
for our Sunday school instructors and elders core
and religious society teachers.
We've asked them
to ditch the,
the the PowerPoints.
We've noticed so many in our in our
ward are returned missionaries. So many listen to
to podcasts.
So many watch, you know, leading saints. They've
learned stuff during the week.
And so Sunday becomes a time for discussion.
Elder Anderson is known for a metaphor that,
spiritual understanding doesn't come from
a lecture.
He says, you know, the classroom of faith
is more like
more like a fitness center than a lecture
hall. Mhmm. And he says, you know, students
don't get stronger by watching someone else do
the exercise.
As students participate,
their spiritual strength will increase. And so we've
asked our teachers to as much as they
wanted, you know, tell us the maps of
of Paul's journeys,
like, no.
We're not here. And you should do that
later if you wanna send it out in
in in the, word group me or whatever.
Yeah. Awesome.
But here is time for discussion. So when
when we call people, we have, five, I
know a lot of words do this, five
teachers that will teach,
real Reliefside elders quorum, small breakout groups,
also Sunday school.
That has been incredible.
They're calling. Your your job is to come
up with seven questions for discussion
for that. So if it's an elders quorum
teacher,
you know, we have little five pods.
And, yeah, you've got about twenty minutes because
we do some other, you know, say, quorum
business and then, some other things. But, yeah,
about twenty, twenty five minutes on Elder Anderson's
talk and your job, seven questions. Rather than
just doing a book report,
let's have a conversation
about it.
And, boy, that has been so good to
have these these Christ centered conversations in Sunday
school and elders quorum and religious society.
Yeah. I love that. And that probably takes
off a lot of the pressure from the
teacher. Right? Especially,
going into the old testament, you're being like,
oh, man. How am I gonna understand this
Israelite history and the politics and all everything
going on or be like, no. Like Hebrew.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, come with some questions, and
you'd be amazed what we can learn together.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's been fun. I I've
loved our our format, especially on the Elders
Court Relief Society weeks. We, people gather. There's
usually an icebreaker question. It's just fun. You
know, it's just silly banter, and, opening prayers
had, and visitors are welcomed. That's that's a
must.
Usually have a training that a member of
the presidency will do just a short, you
know, three to five minute training on on
a a topic if it's the priesthood power
of women or, you know, how to give
a blessing, just a little training.
And then
short open,
you know, moment,
what's on your mind? Have you read anything
in come follow me this week that was
impactful? Do you have any gospel questions on
your mind that we could help with? Any
practical life things that you need help with?
Let's
we've got ten minutes. And,
and then we break into those little groups
once a month,
for the, the, you know, the quote unquote
lesson for the conversation.
Cool. At the end, then coming back together
with about eight minutes to go and just
asking the class for quorum, is there anyone
that needs our prayer?
And they'll talk in that also and then
the vulnerability. Sometimes people are brave and, you
know, my son is, you know, struggling or
or or, hey. You know what? I'm I
have a big week this week with,
performance review at work. I'd love your prayers,
and that closing prayer becomes
unifying.
And I've invited our our,
our second hour. Let's end with about five
minutes to go because you've seen this, Curt.
As soon as Amen is set and they
look at their watch, there's still five minutes
left, what do they do?
They turn their neighbor.
And now they actually have time to connect.
Again, the church starts after the closing prayer
is said, and so that that little sacred
window to expand it for connection
is,
is awesome.
Yeah. Really good stuff.
Tell me about inspired counsel, about callings.
Yeah. I,
I don't know where this came from, but
I the the first principle that I've used,
and this is all heavenly father. I
so background. I was,
I had about three months between that letter
moment and our stake present with my wife
and me to when I was sustained. They
were doing some reorganization
of stakes, and so I was
on the sidelines, kind of.
Yeah.
And I I don't know. The heavens opened
and,
I I got some very specific,
instructions on how to help these ward members
connect more deeply with their savior.
One of them is is callings, just thinking
differently about callings.
The first thing, whenever whenever someone gets a
calling, we invite them to add their signature
to that calling.
The idea, you know, ten years from now,
when you're released from being the,
I don't know, word organist.
When people think back ten years ago to
that word organist, what will they remember about
you
or that ministering
brother
or that primary teacher? Like, what's gonna be
your thing? And if it's,
I want to be the person that's known
as, I celebrate birthdays
or that I,
I don't know, I bring treats to church,
little hard candies for people or whatever whatever
your thing is.
Yeah.
Counsel with the Lord
on
why you have this calling
and what unique gifts and skills you've been
given that could be utilized in this moment.
And add your signature,
to this calling. Yes. You're working under priest
of keys and in the name of Jesus
Christ, but what is your
your contribution to this calling going to mean?
So in in terms of unique callings,
we've,
a couple of my favorites. We have a
a communication director that is so helpful.
Sometimes channels get bombarded with a lot of
stuff. As we have a group meet that
we use in our ward,
and so instead of, you know, this leader
and that leader and this person and and
all of a sudden, it just,
people start to mute the group meet. So
we have a communication director. So if someone
wants to send out a message,
to the ward about
an event coming up, we always work through
him or her. And that's just kinda streamline
the communication.
Been been super helpful.
Both of our elders quorum and religious study
presidencies felt strongly about having,
a ministering,
secretary
assigned to each the president and the two
counselors.
So in addition to having a counselor in
that presidency, there's three ministering,
secretaries that have been so helpful, especially for
those ministering interviews. Almost like they have their
own personal executive secretary.
And the function in that role,
is is been incredible for both the presidency
member and
that ministering secretary.
We've loved having two music coordinators. One that
just, takes care of the sacrament hymns and
the organist.
The second one that works with people to,
to come up with these musical numbers. And,
it's been so good.
We have Ward Bakers.
Again, not in the handbook,
but part of our Ward Mission program. Anyways.
Yeah. Yeah.
They,
they bake.
There's a little committee and they bake each
week. And what we do as a bishop
is we go do our visits,
really exciting presidency as well, out of school
and presidency. They go pick up, you know,
a couple, you know, dozen cookies or brownies.
And when we do our visits, we we
don't come empty handed.
And those bakers, they they love it because
that's their thing.
We have a few, members not of our
faith that are on the baking committee as
called people,
because they, you know, they they love to
bake, and they think that this church is
a good thing, and so that's how they
they participate.
Loneliness is probably one of the biggest things
I deal with.
So one random calling,
we have we've called it community connections.
So once a week, Sunday night in the
word group meet, they'll just send out a
blast on things that are happening in the
community.
In that way, if someone wants to go
and connect,
you know, grab their family, go to an
organ concert. Or if, if it's younger adult,
they wanna go on a date, or there's
this, you know, concert, or there's ice skating,
or whatever it is. To know what's happening
in the community has really helped people overcome
loneliness because they know
that there's there's things out there and it
makes that ask,
an invitation to others a little bit easier
once they know exactly what they might be
able to to go and do. Some of
our award mission team, they've been called just
to,
host a game night, you know, once a
month, once every six weeks. Just open up
your your home or apartment, invite people over,
just play games, you know, have some hot
chocolate or whatever afterwards.
That's been so fun. One of my favorites
is our Just Serve committee.
Service is my love language,
and so maybe this is why I like
it so much. But they're calling, just look
at the JustServe app. We forget about that
JustServe app, I think, too often.
And just find a little something that we
could do,
maybe as a ward or as a neighborhood.
And, let's just go see what we can
do. Let's do, you know, maybe other every
other month, find something that we go and
rally around and and do. And we have
a lot of people on that Just Serve
Committee, and that's been it's been a lot
of fun. So I don't know. I think
it's good to find meaningful ways for people
to serve,
especially if they're not,
gifted naturally at finding ways to to serve
and show up. But if they have a
little assignment with a little direction, it's been
fun to watch people magnify those assignments.
Yeah. That's really powerful. I love that. I
love that.
Anything else around
inspired,
counseling about callings or,
I mean, you covered a lot there. Is
is that it?
Yeah. I speak way too fast. No. You're
good. I I love it. I love it.
The only other thing I'd add there, I
I do have a very sacred,
it's my own
I I hope this isn't sacred. I don't
think it is, but, it's a it's a
bishop's prayer list. It's just my own list
I keep of people that are on my
heart and mind, and I I I pray
for them every day. And,
did you ever see the movie War Room?
Yeah. I believe.
I I I have memories of I don't
know if I saw the whole thing, but,
yeah, I do remember it. My wife and
I watched that years ago. Just this cute
older lady, African American, and she just has
this closet that's her her war room where
she goes to war with God in prayer.
And that just, I don't know, resonated with
me. And so I thought, man, if I
can keep these people, it just helps me
know how to minister to them and and
what things I could do to help them
with their their discipleship. Yeah. Yeah. Some called
the war Room. Others called the Celestial Room.
You know? So we're you know? That's right.
That's right.
You just can't yell on the celestial Room
if Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Really, really cool. Well, let's go to,
ministering interviews and and strengthen faith.
Kurt, you probably realized this a lot sooner
than I did. But
the purpose of the ministering interview
really is to minister to the ministering brother
or sister.
You're not supposed to say it out loud.
That's supposed to be a secret. Oh, I'm
sorry.
You said the quiet part out loud. That's
right. What an opportunity.
Yeah. Yeah.
So we've,
we've invited our ward members
to come up.
Ward goals are are good. Yes. Goals are
good. We've noticed that the trickle down effect
of ward goals, especially created by the ward
council,
approved by the bishop,
administered by the ward mission leader, and then
orchestrated by the elders quorum police side councilor,
sometimes it doesn't trickle down.
And so our ward mission and temple goal
has been inviting members to come up with
their own personal
mission goal and their own personal temple goal.
And so in these ministering interviews, as they
come in, the interview goes like this, you
know, Kurt, how are you? And of course,
you'll say good because that's what you have
to say. Right. That's right. You know, Kurt,
really,
how are you? Tell me about your family.
How are you really doing?
And after that, all of a sudden, we're
starting to connect.
I it says here, you know, you did
that little survey on what your your goal
was for Mission Network. He said you you're
gonna try to give out a Book of
Mormon this year. Have you done that? Any
any luck there? Oh, no. Actually, I've been
trying to get my hands on a Book
of Mormon. Kurt, I got you. I will
have a book more in your hands tomorrow.
Temple.
Wow. Kurt, you go to the temple once
a week.
Do you have a time or day? Oh,
yeah. I go Thursdays at seven. Can I
go with you next Thursday at seven? I'd
love to hang out in the in the
temple with you.
After that, then almost as an afterthought, oh,
and by the way, how are your families
doing?
Somehow Yeah. People think that or maybe even
we've been trained that
we should wait till the ministering interview to
bring up concerns about our families that we're
assigned to.
No.
Hopefully, we do that long before the ministry
interview takes place. So just using those just
to minister. But asking those questions to make
it less awkward and just more,
revelatory has has been a blessing.
Yeah. I found, you know, in my experience
currently as an elders quorum president with those
ministering interviews, I I bet there's some,
like, some elders in my quorum. Like, if
you were to to corner and say, have
you received a ministering interview this quarter or
whatever, they'd be like, I don't think so.
But then I'd be like, hey. Remember that
time when you came over to your house
and we chatted? Like, that was your ministering
interview. Like, sometimes
there's this pressure be like, we will now
start the ministering interview.
How are your families? You know? Right. You
have to make it like when in reality,
we just have a conversation. I'm ministering to
them. I'm learning about their life and their
struggles, whatever. And then near the end, I
say something like, so do you feel like
you're being ministered to in, you know, in
the ward? Like, feel like you have good
connections? Do you feel like you have opportunities
to minister to others? And Yeah. You know,
sometimes I'll be like, you know, I know
on you know, in the in the app
you're scheduled or you're assigned to to the
Andersons. I don't know if you know them
or whatever, but, I mean, are you having
opportunities to connect with them and others? You
know? Because they're so ministering is so nuanced
in when it happens. Right? Like you said,
it could be those moments after the closing
prayer or well, I'm next door to the
Johnsons and, yeah, I connect with them all
the time or, you know, those little things
just to help them know that you are
ministering. You know? That's that's that's cool. You
know? Yeah.
We have a lot of those,
what do you call them? It's not false
doctrine, but just maybe false perceptions of things.
Yeah.
The missionary portal is another one that I
think we need to demystify,
these youth. They hear about, oh, oh, she
opened her portal, and it's like this new
world has opened up. And, you know Like
doctor Strange, she opened the portal. Exactly.
Yeah. Harry Potter. Yeah. Exactly.
But bishops, you know, opening,
a mission portal,
when a young man becomes a priest.
Yeah. Let's put it on his radar. Let's
have that tile show up in the tools
app so that he's thinking about a mission
for the next few years,
and let him see the interview questions. And
I I don't know. My daughter just went
through this. I've told her, like, yeah. Just
start your papers. Open the portal. And she
had this idea there was this
unknown
other world. And,
anyway, I I think we can normalize. Yeah.
Let's start this. Melchizedek Priesthood interviews and ordinations,
same.
When a young man turns 18, he can
be a Melchizedek Priesthood holder. The the idea
has perpetuated that all that's something we do
after high school and,
no. That endowment, yes. But priest ordination, no.
When they turn 18, let's start having those
those moments of preparation. Well, long before they
turn 18, preparation. But when they do turn
18, let's get them ordained. But wait, they're
they're 18 and they're it's October of their
senior year. Yeah. They can be a Melchizedek
priest over in that high school. What a
blessing to have more Melchizedek priest over in
that high school. Right? Yeah.
Yeah. Interesting.
Because we sometimes treat it like it's a
like, graduation or something. It's like, okay. This
event has happened. We'll now start,
when in reality, it's always happening. Just I
mean, it's like sanctification. It's always going on.
You know? We don't have to have an
event that starts it. But Right. Right.
Yeah.
Tell me about, like, as far as,
you know, cultivating a joyful award environment. Anything
I'm and you've talked about a lot of
stuff already, but anything else we're missing there?
Yeah. And this is me. I one of
my favorite compliments from a student years ago,
I mean, years ago. This is twenty years
ago.
He raised it and said, hey. Tomorrow's our
last day,
of our semester.
Brothers, you are so happy. Can you teach
us how to be happy?
Yes. I mean, I don't know if I
can, but yes.
So when we had that awesome message from
elder Karen about the, you know, the church
of joy,
obviously, leading with it. Obviously, church begins after
the closing prayer. We are a people of
joy, not just a you know, the the
church. Right? Church happens outside of that that
little block of time. But I I myself
and my counselors, we we try to remember
that this might be a person's
first time in church or the first time
in a long time.
So just to be warm at the pulpit,
to be welcoming,
to be inclusive,
and nothing against the, you know, brothers and
sisters, we welcome you to the forty first
point. That's fine. That's some people's default, and
that's okay. That word probably needs that. But
just to stand and just be that light
and pastor, we are so glad you've come
to worship with us today. I'm Bishop Richards.
Here's my two counselors.
If you're new, thank you for being here.
This is gonna be an awesome meeting as
we get to gather to worship Jesus Christ.
Just to make it a positive experience,
we've you know, we we try to relax
at the pulpit.
I think it's okay to be personable
as we conduct.
I'm a little bit of a word nerd,
as you know, with a couple of the
books I've written. I Mhmm. We try to
avoid some of the the sayings, you know.
At the end of sacrament meeting, you've seen
this before, Kurt. You know? And so all
the speakers are done, and the person stands
up, we'd like to thank, you know, Kurt
Francom for that beautiful message.
I was
he's sitting right there. He he's right there
behind you. Like, you can thank him. What
is this? We would like to thank him.
Well, no. You can. He he's right there,
and and you can thank him. And so
Uh-huh. We've tried to do a, hey.
Guys, those were great messages. Thank you so
much.
I think that's okay. You notice that pattern
in general conference. We thank. It's more of
that active voice in the past where we
thank Kurt and and Stacy and and Rebecca
for their messages today. Mhmm.
We do
this is this is very nitpicky.
I love it.
Sorry. You know, you and I kinda know
each other. Yeah. Obviously, never thanking the priesthood,
you know, for blessing and passing the sacrament.
First of all, the priesthood didn't do that.
There's people that hold the priesthood. If the
priesthood truly put away the chairs or bless
the sacrament, that would be a miracle.
But those that hold the priesthood and by
the way, why do we
thank them for doing their calling?
We've got away from that.
Because if I'm gonna thank those
12 or maybe 15 young men for doing
their calling,
why not thank the primary
teachers
and the ward organist
and,
the ward scheduler and
why
so
and I told them, you know, the the
priesthood holders, like, this is not it's nothing
personal. Please know we are grateful. And
and, yeah, I I know if we need
a moment right then to thank you for
doing your calling because that might set a
precedence that we should thank all the 150
other people for doing their calling as well.
So that's been a fun little moment for
us and and those that that hold the
priesthood.
We try to get away from the words,
special.
Are you a special guy, Kurt? Are you
a special musical number and special prayer Oh,
yeah. Special fast?
So the, we're having a special musical number?
It's just,
we if everything's special, nothing special. Is that
that we've seen? Yeah. You've seen Incredibles. Right?
Yeah. So yeah. And there's nothing wrong with
it at all. Please, I'm not you know,
there's nothing doctorally wrong, but I yeah. We're
gonna have,
I I want every fast to be special.
Yeah. I want every musical number to be
special. And so we yeah. Yeah. It's it's
it's positive conversations.
The the more you say that, it's like,
oh, yeah. Special world where it does pop
up at random times in our Oh, yeah.
In our lexicon.
Right. Right. Right. I'm not sure why because
Yeah. So Cool.
Yeah. Just yeah. That church of joy conducting
with joy and
and just living in that spirit of joy
after that closing prayer to connect people,
that foundation being Jesus Christ has been has
been so good.
Yeah. Awesome.
Alright. I wanna hear about the the three
word council training topics that transform councils. I
love it. Oh,
yeah. I
the word council and, you know, the it's
the eyes, the ears, the heart, the heartbeat
of the ward.
And,
those are sacred meetings. We we laugh together.
We cry together.
That becomes a little
family for for that moment while those individuals
are called.
I always ask, heavenly father, who should be
on the word council? And then I figure
out what calling they're supposed to hold to
be on the word council. Mhmm.
It has,
really, really been helpful.
Reminding them a few things. And you you
teach this often, Kurt. But,
number one, that, you know, revelation is found
among us, that we we need your contribution.
And with that, we need your
perspective.
You need to wear different hats. You wanna
wear that hat as just a a random
ward member.
You wanna wear that hat as a member
of a family or living in an apartment,
and we want you to wear the hat
of you with the people that you have
stewardship over.
And so as ideas are proposed,
filter it through those different hats.
Instead of and I think human nature, we
have a knee jerk reaction to any idea
that's proposed,
but we have to take away some of
that. That is one of the three hats
we're wearing,
filter it through our our neighbor, our friend,
a family member,
people they have stewardship over. How might this
help them connect with Jesus Christ? And it
kinda strips away the ego.
E. F. R. E. G. O. Is an
acronym, edging
God out.
Mhmm. And so just checking ego at the
door, open heart, open mind, but contributing for
that, moment of revelation as a council. Reminding
them that every ward council member has a
a puzzle piece.
And if you don't participate
in that council meeting,
there's literally a piece of the puzzle
that is missing.
The hardest part I've noticed is,
some people take ownership of ideas
where they come ready for the meeting and
they throw out an idea to the word
council.
And if that idea is
is chewed up, spit out, transformed,
maybe even rejected,
realizing that no. No. You helped
spur revelation.
You had an idea,
but it wasn't the final idea that heavenly
father wanted.
And because you were brave enough to share
an idea, it led to what heavenly father
wanted from us. The idea being that once
an idea once your idea is thrown out
onto the floor of the word council meeting,
it then becomes the word council's idea.
You have to kinda divorce yourself from any
feelings or emotion. I
I wrote the seminary curriculum. I was on
this team for five years. So the online
seminary curriculum, it was so painful because you
would have this beautiful outline. Oh, it's so
good in these questions and these quotes and,
oh, it went through the the grinder
and the final product, in my opinion, was
sometimes a little bit less, but I knew
it was more what heavenly father wanted. So
just
divorcing ourselves from our own ego to let
that spirit of of revelation take place has
been key.
Awesome. So are there three specific, like, topics
that that you focus on? Or, like, I
I guess I don't wanna miss that if
there are Oh, no. You're fine.
Reminding them that revelation is found among us.
Two, reminding them to wear those different hats
in the meeting. And three, just encouraging them
to bring their their piece of the puzzle
to a word council meeting.
Yeah. Yeah. That's so so powerful, especially,
you know, we we assume so much, you
know, and it's not just in our faith
tradition just as humans. Right? But when somebody's
called to a ward council,
they may have never experienced a council like
that, a council setting. And so they don't
kinda even know how to show up or
how to act, and so it's easy for
them to maybe just sit back and listen
and not step forward with perspectives or ideas.
Or or they think, oh, they wanna hear
my opinion, or finally, I'm gonna just gonna
fire hose them with, you know, my strong
opinion here, there. Right? But to say, let
me tell you what's going on here, and
here's three
three lessons to consider as you step into
this council setting. Right? And it doesn't have
to be those three, but
just
any intentional
framing that you can give people in the
council so that they are they feel empowered
to participate and to receive and share that
revelation. Right? Yeah. 100%.
Yeah. That's that's it. So training them on
how to have a council is is key.
Yeah. Yeah. So true.
Good stuff.
Eric, any other point, principle, concept, story, that
we need to make sure we we include
here before we wrap up? Or how do
we do?
Kurt, just gratitude. I am so grateful for
what you have. You are brave. This is
a and you've done this for a long
time. And I just wanna add my voice
to the others that, we there are so
many of us that are grateful. And I
know there's so many of us that wish
we had deeper pockets to help fund this
five zero '1 c three. Yeah. Just thank
you. Thank you for your stamina. Thanks for
your energy.
Thanks for providing a space for leaders to
be trained. I listen every episode. I know
Oh, thank you. Thousands of other people do
as well, and we're just just so grateful.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Awesome.
Awesome. Well, it means a lot.
Last question. Oh, I I guess, with your
experience with teaching and things, is there if
people do wanna know more about your teaching
or I don't know if you have books
or things, or do you have a home
base where you send people,
that wanna learn more about you or some
of the some of your content? Or Oh,
I'm,
again, I'm the least. But if you do
have young adults that are attending Utah State
University,
have them look have them look up our
classes. We've got 23 teachers. An institute is
worldwide
wherever your your young adults are.
The we've had a
huge shift over the last,
oh, four to six years.
New classes, new content,
really a new structure on teaching. So,
that would be my battle cry. Get your
kids into seminary
and get your young adults into institute, and
and let let us try to be a
blessing to them, walking
arm in arm with them, trying to lead
them to to their savior Jesus Christ.
Very good. Well, Eric, last question I have
for you is just reflecting, you know, to
give you a specific time frame,
reflecting on those last few years of being
a bishop, being that leader, how has being
a leader helped you become a better follower
of Jesus Christ?
Priesthood keys,
I've come to learn, are all about
alignment.
Yes, I can receive some promptings, some discernment.
Yes, yes, that comes with the stewardship like
this.
But I found that when
I have a prompting or an idea,
if I can align that with my heavenly
father,
that's what it's all about.
If I have a prompting about a ward
member, how can I connect them with heavenly
father? If there's an idea about award
activity or event or program,
how can we structure that? I use my
keys to try and align myself with
with Heavenly Father. That's been the biggest blessing
that that leadership is really about alignment,
with with Heavenly Father more than anything.
And that concludes this how I lead interview.
I hope you enjoyed it. And, I would
ask you, could you take a minute and
drop this link in an email, on social
media, in a text, wherever it makes the
most sense, and share it with somebody who
could relate to this experience. And this is
how we develop as leaders, just hearing what
the other guy is doing, trying some things
out, testing, adjusting
for your area, and,
that's where great leadership is discovered. Right? So
we would love to have you, share this
with, somebody in this calling or a related
calling, and that would be great. And, also,
if you know somebody,
any type of leader who would be a
fantastic guest on the how I lead segment,
reach out to us. Go to leadingsaints.org/contact.
Maybe send this in individual an email letting
them know that you're going to be suggesting
their name for this interview. We'll reach out
to them and,
see if we can line them up. So
again, go to leadingsaints.org/contact
and there you can submit all the information
and let us know. And maybe they will
be on a future how I lead segment
on the Leading Saints podcast.
It came as a result of the position
of leadership which was imposed upon us
by the God of heaven who brought forth
a restoration
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And when the declaration
was made
concerning the own and only true and living
church upon the face of the earth,
we were immediately put in a position of
loneliness.
The loneliness of leadership
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,
and to which we must face up with
boldness and courage
and ability.