1 00:00:01,919 --> 00:00:04,480 Alright. Here's our goal, folks. Leading Saints is 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,960 no longer a podcast. Well, obviously, we are 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,519 a podcast. We will continue to podcast, but 4 00:00:09,519 --> 00:00:12,400 we're really shifting our focus over to Zion 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,179 Lab, which is an online community 6 00:00:14,564 --> 00:00:16,904 put on and developed by leading saints. 7 00:00:17,285 --> 00:00:18,725 And this is where we want to go 8 00:00:18,725 --> 00:00:20,024 and gather the masses 9 00:00:20,324 --> 00:00:23,204 and share ideas about leadership, share ideas about 10 00:00:23,204 --> 00:00:26,024 different callings, share ideas about building Zion. 11 00:00:26,324 --> 00:00:27,844 And this is the place that we want 12 00:00:27,844 --> 00:00:30,105 to make online, where all things are discussed, 13 00:00:30,379 --> 00:00:32,299 great ideas are shared, and that we can 14 00:00:32,299 --> 00:00:34,780 help one another in whatever calling we're in 15 00:00:34,780 --> 00:00:36,859 or what calling we're not in to feel 16 00:00:36,859 --> 00:00:38,699 like, you know, I've got purpose here. I 17 00:00:38,699 --> 00:00:40,619 can really make a difference in shifting culture 18 00:00:40,619 --> 00:00:42,619 in a better way or developing Zion in 19 00:00:42,619 --> 00:00:44,715 my own corner of the kingdom. So join 20 00:00:44,715 --> 00:00:48,975 us over at Zion Lab at leadingsaints.org/zion, 21 00:00:49,115 --> 00:00:51,034 and there you can just jump in. It's 22 00:00:51,034 --> 00:00:53,515 free to join and create a profile and 23 00:00:53,515 --> 00:00:55,435 jump in and and look around and answer 24 00:00:55,435 --> 00:00:57,695 some questions. Leave a comment. Pose a question. 25 00:00:57,755 --> 00:00:59,354 And I think you'll benefit from the things 26 00:00:59,354 --> 00:01:02,646 we're doing over at Zion Lab. So join 27 00:01:02,913 --> 00:01:06,310 us. Hey. Welcome to the Leading Saints podcast. 28 00:01:06,369 --> 00:01:07,810 Now for many of you that are brand 29 00:01:07,810 --> 00:01:10,290 new, to Leading Saints, it's important that you 30 00:01:10,290 --> 00:01:12,869 know that Leading Saints is a nonprofit organization, 31 00:01:13,090 --> 00:01:15,905 five zero one c three, dedicated to helping 32 00:01:15,905 --> 00:01:18,545 Latter day Saints be better prepared to lead, 33 00:01:18,545 --> 00:01:19,844 and we do that through 34 00:01:20,145 --> 00:01:22,865 content creation. We get so much positive feedback 35 00:01:22,865 --> 00:01:25,665 on the podcast, our virtual conferences, the articles 36 00:01:25,665 --> 00:01:26,564 on our website. 37 00:01:26,865 --> 00:01:29,765 You definitely gotta check it out at leadingsaints.org. 38 00:01:29,905 --> 00:01:31,959 And on on their homepage at leadingsaints.org, 39 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,120 you can actually find the top six most 40 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,359 downloaded episodes to the podcast. So if you're 41 00:01:36,359 --> 00:01:38,620 new, like the content, want to jump into 42 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,159 some of our most popular episodes, head there 43 00:01:41,159 --> 00:01:42,540 after you listen to this. 44 00:01:45,305 --> 00:01:47,625 Welcome back to the leading saints podcast. Today, 45 00:01:47,625 --> 00:01:50,344 we chat with Ernest Davis, who is a 46 00:01:50,344 --> 00:01:52,665 success story in the church of Jesus Christ 47 00:01:52,665 --> 00:01:55,189 of latter day saints. A phenomenal story, a 48 00:01:55,189 --> 00:01:57,930 black Latter day Saint from Los Angeles, California 49 00:01:58,310 --> 00:02:00,230 who was led to the church in a 50 00:02:00,230 --> 00:02:03,189 really unique way at University of Idaho playing 51 00:02:03,189 --> 00:02:05,510 after a, playing football up there and after 52 00:02:05,510 --> 00:02:06,569 a a knee injury, 53 00:02:06,950 --> 00:02:08,870 that thrust him onto the covenant path in 54 00:02:08,870 --> 00:02:10,310 a very unique way. So he tells a 55 00:02:10,310 --> 00:02:12,314 little bit bit of that story, and he's 56 00:02:12,314 --> 00:02:14,574 also a leadership guy. He earned a doctorate 57 00:02:14,715 --> 00:02:17,935 in philosophy of leadership from Gonzaga University. 58 00:02:18,235 --> 00:02:19,995 So this guy knows his stuff, and he 59 00:02:19,995 --> 00:02:21,674 wrote a book called Leading in the Lord's 60 00:02:21,674 --> 00:02:23,534 Way, but he goes over 10 principles 61 00:02:24,090 --> 00:02:26,010 talking about these and instructing about these in 62 00:02:26,010 --> 00:02:28,490 the LDS context that you definitely need to 63 00:02:28,490 --> 00:02:30,010 check out in this book. And we, talked 64 00:02:30,010 --> 00:02:32,010 about them in this episode as well. So 65 00:02:32,010 --> 00:02:33,930 you're gonna love his story. You're gonna love 66 00:02:33,930 --> 00:02:35,985 his book. And I should mention that we 67 00:02:37,264 --> 00:02:39,504 Leading Saints Zion Lab, which is our online 68 00:02:39,504 --> 00:02:41,664 community where all the things are happening in 69 00:02:41,664 --> 00:02:43,264 the world of Leading Saints. And so there's 70 00:02:43,264 --> 00:02:45,264 a live studio audience that he and I 71 00:02:45,264 --> 00:02:47,025 refer to from time to time. And if 72 00:02:47,025 --> 00:02:47,604 you wanna 73 00:02:47,905 --> 00:02:49,685 join in on some of these live recordings, 74 00:02:49,905 --> 00:02:53,659 definitely go over to to, leadingsaints.org/zion 75 00:02:53,659 --> 00:02:56,620 and participate in the Zion Land. It's awesome. 76 00:02:56,620 --> 00:02:59,199 So here's my interview with Ernest Davis. 77 00:03:08,875 --> 00:03:11,435 Alright, Ernest. You wrote the book, Leading in 78 00:03:11,435 --> 00:03:14,395 the Lord's Way, and maybe tell us what 79 00:03:14,395 --> 00:03:15,754 led up to this point where you thought 80 00:03:15,754 --> 00:03:17,400 I'm gonna write a book about this stuff. 81 00:03:17,959 --> 00:03:18,360 Well, 82 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,239 when I was kinda reading, the Joseph Smith 83 00:03:21,239 --> 00:03:21,739 history, 84 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:24,039 it had there was a certain chapter that 85 00:03:24,039 --> 00:03:27,400 said that the, prophets and apostles had learned 86 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,159 to lead in the Lord's way. And so 87 00:03:29,159 --> 00:03:31,259 I was inspired at that time to 88 00:03:31,694 --> 00:03:34,014 write a book that talked about leadership in 89 00:03:34,014 --> 00:03:35,935 that aspect. And then at the same time, 90 00:03:35,935 --> 00:03:38,594 I was starting a doctoral program in studying 91 00:03:38,735 --> 00:03:41,134 servant leadership. And so I decided to kinda 92 00:03:41,134 --> 00:03:42,675 intertwine what I had learned 93 00:03:43,134 --> 00:03:44,034 with my testimony 94 00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:46,389 as well as some of the teachings from 95 00:03:46,389 --> 00:03:48,810 the gospel and then different aspects of leadership. 96 00:03:49,349 --> 00:03:51,610 Awesome. Love it. Now your journey, 97 00:03:52,069 --> 00:03:53,430 maybe I mean, there's probably a point in 98 00:03:53,430 --> 00:03:55,030 your life you didn't expect to be at 99 00:03:55,030 --> 00:03:56,710 the position you're at, and you joined the 100 00:03:56,710 --> 00:03:58,469 church in your early twenties, if I remember 101 00:03:58,469 --> 00:04:00,354 right. Maybe where does that story reach you, 102 00:04:00,354 --> 00:04:02,514 and what should we understand about your early 103 00:04:02,514 --> 00:04:03,014 upbringing? 104 00:04:03,474 --> 00:04:06,194 Well, when I was in, late high school 105 00:04:06,194 --> 00:04:08,435 and junior college, me and my twin brother, 106 00:04:08,435 --> 00:04:10,534 Eric, he's actually on this call as well. 107 00:04:10,594 --> 00:04:13,400 Oh, nice. We had found ourselves homeless, and 108 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,060 so we were attending LA Southwest Community College. 109 00:04:16,199 --> 00:04:18,520 We were staying at different hotels from week 110 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,439 to week. And so then we we were 111 00:04:20,439 --> 00:04:23,240 playing sports, playing football, and then we strive 112 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,800 to get a scholarship and then to improve 113 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,339 our life situation. 114 00:04:27,754 --> 00:04:28,954 And so I talk a lot about that 115 00:04:28,954 --> 00:04:30,954 in the book about how we had people 116 00:04:30,954 --> 00:04:33,354 who helped us overcome our barriers and then 117 00:04:33,354 --> 00:04:35,694 different aspects of our lives. He was leading, 118 00:04:35,995 --> 00:04:38,314 and then I was serving or he was 119 00:04:38,314 --> 00:04:40,254 serving me, and then I was following. 120 00:04:40,709 --> 00:04:42,790 We were kinda switching the road between neuter 121 00:04:42,790 --> 00:04:44,629 and follower and then helping each other, you 122 00:04:44,629 --> 00:04:47,209 know, just survive the streets of Los Angeles, 123 00:04:47,589 --> 00:04:49,670 spending a lot of time together. It was 124 00:04:49,670 --> 00:04:51,189 just he and I and our mom. 125 00:04:51,509 --> 00:04:53,269 We went, and then we finally got a 126 00:04:53,269 --> 00:04:56,004 athletic scholarship to University of Idaho. And then 127 00:04:56,004 --> 00:04:58,004 from there is where I was able to, 128 00:04:58,324 --> 00:05:00,645 be baptized once I had a career ending 129 00:05:00,645 --> 00:05:03,285 knee surgery. Oh, wow. And so what was 130 00:05:03,285 --> 00:05:04,645 the story? Like, how did you come in 131 00:05:04,645 --> 00:05:06,245 contact with the missionaries, or how did they 132 00:05:06,245 --> 00:05:08,165 introduce you, or who Well, actually, I had 133 00:05:08,165 --> 00:05:10,569 actually it's kind of funny. I had met 134 00:05:10,569 --> 00:05:12,349 missionaries before in Los Angeles. 135 00:05:12,649 --> 00:05:14,970 I had got suspended from school once in 136 00:05:14,970 --> 00:05:16,810 the tenth grade, and I had got met 137 00:05:16,810 --> 00:05:18,889 some missionaries at the park. My mom had 138 00:05:18,889 --> 00:05:20,169 told me to go to the park for 139 00:05:20,169 --> 00:05:22,785 the entire day until school is over. And 140 00:05:22,785 --> 00:05:24,305 so, when I was leaving the park that 141 00:05:24,305 --> 00:05:25,504 day, they had gave me a book of 142 00:05:25,504 --> 00:05:27,605 Mormon, and I had read it. And then 143 00:05:27,824 --> 00:05:29,745 I just kinda thought that I didn't realize 144 00:05:29,745 --> 00:05:32,085 that there was another testament of Jesus Christ. 145 00:05:32,145 --> 00:05:33,665 And so I read that and kinda didn't 146 00:05:33,665 --> 00:05:35,979 think that another. I actually got halfway through 147 00:05:35,979 --> 00:05:38,060 and then stopped. I had prayed to know 148 00:05:38,060 --> 00:05:39,579 if the book of Mormon was true, but 149 00:05:39,579 --> 00:05:41,419 I didn't get a immediate answer at that 150 00:05:41,419 --> 00:05:43,579 time. Right? And I think, a couple of 151 00:05:43,579 --> 00:05:45,660 years after that is when we had end 152 00:05:45,660 --> 00:05:47,500 up being homeless, not having a place over 153 00:05:47,500 --> 00:05:49,884 our head. And so after that, I met 154 00:05:49,884 --> 00:05:52,064 missionaries in college when I had knee 155 00:05:52,444 --> 00:05:54,305 surgery. They would come visit me. 156 00:05:54,764 --> 00:05:58,044 My wife now, she had, read the scriptures 157 00:05:58,044 --> 00:05:59,564 with me. She's a member of the church. 158 00:05:59,564 --> 00:06:00,865 She was born and raised. 159 00:06:01,165 --> 00:06:03,410 So once I had injured my knee, she 160 00:06:03,410 --> 00:06:05,490 was, the one that kinda took me through 161 00:06:05,490 --> 00:06:07,750 the steps of how I could get baptized 162 00:06:07,810 --> 00:06:09,410 and kinda showing me the love that I 163 00:06:09,410 --> 00:06:11,649 didn't feel at that time. When I blew 164 00:06:11,649 --> 00:06:13,110 up my knee, I was very depressed 165 00:06:13,410 --> 00:06:15,410 because I was you know, my only identity 166 00:06:15,410 --> 00:06:17,169 was that of an athlete. And then coming 167 00:06:17,169 --> 00:06:19,654 from Los Angeles, football had been my only 168 00:06:19,654 --> 00:06:22,235 means of, like, separating myself from my struggles. 169 00:06:22,295 --> 00:06:24,214 And so when it happened to me, it 170 00:06:24,214 --> 00:06:25,735 was a very dark place for me, but 171 00:06:25,735 --> 00:06:27,415 she helped me find a way out. And 172 00:06:27,415 --> 00:06:29,334 then that's when I found the covenant path 173 00:06:29,334 --> 00:06:32,454 and got baptized and starting to strengthen my 174 00:06:32,454 --> 00:06:32,954 testimony. 175 00:06:33,334 --> 00:06:35,689 That's awesome. And so when you were at 176 00:06:35,689 --> 00:06:38,090 University of Idaho, was this was the leadership 177 00:06:38,090 --> 00:06:40,490 path the plan then, or or was it 178 00:06:40,490 --> 00:06:42,810 all, like, maybe the NFL? Did you have 179 00:06:42,810 --> 00:06:43,710 a backup plan? 180 00:06:44,090 --> 00:06:45,069 I think it was, 181 00:06:45,529 --> 00:06:47,715 so to speak. You know, you think that 182 00:06:47,795 --> 00:06:49,655 I mean, every inner city 183 00:06:50,514 --> 00:06:52,754 athlete aspires to go to the NFL. And 184 00:06:52,754 --> 00:06:54,615 I think for me, I was learning leadership 185 00:06:54,675 --> 00:06:56,595 without knowing it. I think Eric and I 186 00:06:56,595 --> 00:06:58,595 both became leaders. We had to lead ourselves 187 00:06:58,595 --> 00:07:01,589 first, and we learned leader different leadership characteristics 188 00:07:01,889 --> 00:07:03,329 like I talk about in my book, whether 189 00:07:03,329 --> 00:07:04,870 it be listening, empathy, 190 00:07:05,329 --> 00:07:07,329 or being able to solve problems. Right? I 191 00:07:07,329 --> 00:07:09,569 think leadership is learned from the struggles that 192 00:07:09,569 --> 00:07:11,889 you overcome. And so for me, it wasn't 193 00:07:11,889 --> 00:07:14,129 really about leadership at that time until I 194 00:07:14,129 --> 00:07:14,629 realized 195 00:07:15,004 --> 00:07:16,444 at this point in my life that I 196 00:07:16,444 --> 00:07:18,625 was practicing leadership characteristics. 197 00:07:19,164 --> 00:07:20,604 And we had people in our lives that 198 00:07:20,604 --> 00:07:23,164 help us, overcome those things like our coach 199 00:07:23,164 --> 00:07:24,064 Henry Washington 200 00:07:24,524 --> 00:07:26,764 at LA Southwest. He had helped us overcome 201 00:07:26,764 --> 00:07:27,664 a lot of barriers. 202 00:07:28,019 --> 00:07:29,779 And so for me, it was really leadership 203 00:07:29,779 --> 00:07:32,500 is about removing barriers barriers from people so 204 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:34,740 that they can grow us to their fullest 205 00:07:34,740 --> 00:07:35,240 potential. 206 00:07:35,779 --> 00:07:37,779 Yeah. What was it about that coach? I 207 00:07:37,779 --> 00:07:39,860 mean, was there a certain approach he took 208 00:07:39,860 --> 00:07:42,045 to help you through those things? Or Well, 209 00:07:42,045 --> 00:07:44,444 he had, so Eric was on the phone 210 00:07:44,444 --> 00:07:46,365 one day, and he was, talking to a 211 00:07:46,365 --> 00:07:47,345 hotel manager, 212 00:07:47,964 --> 00:07:50,785 asking or pleading for one more night stay 213 00:07:50,925 --> 00:07:51,745 in the hotel. 214 00:07:52,045 --> 00:07:53,404 And he had said that he had heard 215 00:07:53,404 --> 00:07:54,144 us overtalking, 216 00:07:54,444 --> 00:07:56,125 and then it really rocked him to the 217 00:07:56,125 --> 00:07:58,439 core where he wanted to offer us plan 218 00:07:58,439 --> 00:07:59,660 to improve our situation. 219 00:08:00,199 --> 00:08:01,879 So he sat Eric and I down. He 220 00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:03,720 gave us a plan, a process of how 221 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,579 we can improve ourselves, taking 222 00:08:05,879 --> 00:08:06,860 as many classes 223 00:08:07,319 --> 00:08:07,979 a semester, 224 00:08:08,439 --> 00:08:08,939 maximizing 225 00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:11,819 our, opportunity, like taking 226 00:08:12,295 --> 00:08:14,074 many classes as we could each semester, 227 00:08:14,455 --> 00:08:16,694 going to football practice. He provided us with 228 00:08:16,694 --> 00:08:17,194 jobs, 229 00:08:17,574 --> 00:08:19,735 and then he also provided us with financial 230 00:08:19,735 --> 00:08:21,814 aid, all the different resources that we needed 231 00:08:21,814 --> 00:08:23,735 to be successful. And then from that point, 232 00:08:23,735 --> 00:08:26,714 we just followed his process and we, graduated 233 00:08:26,775 --> 00:08:28,669 within a year and a half. And then 234 00:08:28,669 --> 00:08:30,430 we were able to, you know, leave Los 235 00:08:30,430 --> 00:08:32,909 Angeles to go to University of Idaho. One 236 00:08:32,909 --> 00:08:34,990 cool thing about coach Washington, I don't I 237 00:08:34,990 --> 00:08:36,929 I still talk to him to this day. 238 00:08:37,149 --> 00:08:38,750 And one of the things he had he 239 00:08:38,750 --> 00:08:40,429 had told me about the story of how 240 00:08:40,429 --> 00:08:41,889 he had got a master's 241 00:08:42,464 --> 00:08:42,964 before, 242 00:08:43,745 --> 00:08:46,464 a master's degree before he became the athletic 243 00:08:46,464 --> 00:08:49,064 director at LA Southwest. And he said that 244 00:08:49,064 --> 00:08:50,964 the BYU had offered 245 00:08:51,584 --> 00:08:52,725 a master's program, 246 00:08:53,264 --> 00:08:55,889 and they would send professors out to inner 247 00:08:55,889 --> 00:08:57,730 city Los Angeles and teach them at the 248 00:08:57,730 --> 00:08:58,549 local chapels 249 00:08:59,009 --> 00:09:01,429 every two weeks. And that was in eighteen 250 00:09:01,809 --> 00:09:04,129 eighties or late seventies. And so you kinda 251 00:09:04,129 --> 00:09:07,089 think of that aspect where BYU was able 252 00:09:07,089 --> 00:09:09,235 to offer him a path. Right? So he 253 00:09:09,235 --> 00:09:11,154 was able to get education. After that, he 254 00:09:11,154 --> 00:09:12,054 became a coach. 255 00:09:12,434 --> 00:09:14,455 And then from there, he ended up touching 256 00:09:14,595 --> 00:09:16,514 Eric and Eric and I's lives in ways 257 00:09:16,514 --> 00:09:18,995 that we didn't expect. Wow. That's the whole 258 00:09:18,995 --> 00:09:21,820 servant leadership aspect where, you know, the church 259 00:09:21,820 --> 00:09:23,899 went out of their way not to be 260 00:09:23,899 --> 00:09:25,820 acclaimed for it or to be notarized for 261 00:09:25,820 --> 00:09:28,139 it. But they offer it, like, education opportunities 262 00:09:28,139 --> 00:09:30,159 from people in inner city Los Angeles. 263 00:09:30,539 --> 00:09:32,379 And then, you know, what did the coach 264 00:09:32,379 --> 00:09:34,639 Washington do with that opportunity? It helped other 265 00:09:34,700 --> 00:09:35,200 disadvantaged 266 00:09:35,754 --> 00:09:38,554 young black men in his community. Man, that 267 00:09:38,554 --> 00:09:41,674 influence just, it's like that domino effect. Right? 268 00:09:41,674 --> 00:09:44,154 And so where where he was just happened 269 00:09:44,154 --> 00:09:45,514 to be standing in the hotel and heard 270 00:09:45,514 --> 00:09:47,595 that conversation? That's how you no. Actually, we 271 00:09:47,595 --> 00:09:49,409 were staying outside of his office. 272 00:09:49,809 --> 00:09:51,329 He had a window that was open to 273 00:09:51,329 --> 00:09:53,730 the outside, and so we were standing there. 274 00:09:53,889 --> 00:09:55,809 It was, I think, either after practice or 275 00:09:55,809 --> 00:09:56,629 before practice, 276 00:09:56,929 --> 00:09:59,490 and, he heard us overtalking. And he still 277 00:09:59,490 --> 00:10:02,355 remembers that day to up until now and 278 00:10:02,355 --> 00:10:04,514 how he felt so, bad for us and, 279 00:10:04,514 --> 00:10:07,174 you know, he wanted to help us. Yeah. 280 00:10:07,235 --> 00:10:09,075 And then that led that began your journey 281 00:10:09,075 --> 00:10:11,634 to Idaho to play football there? Yeah. We, 282 00:10:12,034 --> 00:10:14,514 we just continued to process. I mean, our 283 00:10:14,514 --> 00:10:16,274 nose was in the books or on the 284 00:10:16,274 --> 00:10:18,659 field. We we were on the grind, so 285 00:10:18,659 --> 00:10:21,240 to speak. We didn't let anything stop us. 286 00:10:21,299 --> 00:10:23,459 We had to maintain a certain lifestyle even 287 00:10:23,459 --> 00:10:25,860 just because we didn't have the resources to, 288 00:10:25,860 --> 00:10:27,620 you know, go out and do all the 289 00:10:27,620 --> 00:10:30,039 different things that maybe some youth may do. 290 00:10:30,204 --> 00:10:31,964 So we just stuck to the discipline of 291 00:10:31,964 --> 00:10:32,865 it all and, 292 00:10:33,404 --> 00:10:35,745 just strive to improve our our life situation. 293 00:10:36,125 --> 00:10:37,964 Yeah. And then is there anything else about 294 00:10:37,964 --> 00:10:39,964 your upbringing or early life that we should 295 00:10:39,964 --> 00:10:40,784 put into contact? 296 00:10:41,644 --> 00:10:43,325 My I had a older brother who played 297 00:10:43,325 --> 00:10:45,690 professional football for a time. He was a 298 00:10:45,690 --> 00:10:47,710 big influence for Eric and I. He taught 299 00:10:47,850 --> 00:10:50,410 us how to play football, how to do 300 00:10:50,490 --> 00:10:52,970 use different techniques, and just being able to 301 00:10:52,970 --> 00:10:54,110 develop that resilience. 302 00:10:54,570 --> 00:10:56,250 A chapter in my book, I call it 303 00:10:56,250 --> 00:10:57,389 the touted tenth, 304 00:10:57,754 --> 00:11:00,554 where, you know, you provide certain individuals those 305 00:11:00,554 --> 00:11:02,475 opportunities, and that is enough for us to 306 00:11:02,475 --> 00:11:04,014 uplift entire communities 307 00:11:04,554 --> 00:11:06,475 where you provide a path for others to 308 00:11:06,475 --> 00:11:08,475 follow, whether it's me and Eric or someone 309 00:11:08,475 --> 00:11:09,774 else. When you 310 00:11:10,315 --> 00:11:12,894 see someone from your community or from your 311 00:11:13,259 --> 00:11:15,840 struggles that you may encounter achieve success, 312 00:11:16,220 --> 00:11:18,779 you're able to visualize it for yourself. So 313 00:11:18,779 --> 00:11:20,460 that's kind of one of the biggest things 314 00:11:20,460 --> 00:11:21,899 for us when we were growing up is 315 00:11:21,899 --> 00:11:23,500 we had Chris as a model of how 316 00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:26,080 we could learn the different techniques of football. 317 00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:28,379 We had coach Washington who provided us a 318 00:11:28,379 --> 00:11:30,715 path, and that's the whole idea of servant 319 00:11:30,715 --> 00:11:33,054 leadership is to provide that path for others. 320 00:11:33,195 --> 00:11:35,195 Yeah. I love it. I'm just curious with 321 00:11:35,195 --> 00:11:37,534 the the focus with servant leadership with marginalized 322 00:11:37,674 --> 00:11:40,154 communities. Is that your focus in your studies 323 00:11:40,154 --> 00:11:42,495 or just in general with your life experience? 324 00:11:42,659 --> 00:11:45,000 I think it's in general my life experiences. 325 00:11:45,699 --> 00:11:47,379 I work at Skills Inc, so it's a 326 00:11:47,379 --> 00:11:50,659 nonprofit organization in Auburn, Washington. And so we 327 00:11:50,659 --> 00:11:52,199 employ persons with disabilities. 328 00:11:52,579 --> 00:11:54,339 And then just trying to uplift people who 329 00:11:54,339 --> 00:11:55,879 don't traditionally get those 330 00:11:56,345 --> 00:12:00,024 opportunities, like underrepresented groups, trying to inspire change 331 00:12:00,024 --> 00:12:02,425 in those communities. Because it's hard for someone 332 00:12:02,425 --> 00:12:03,404 to learn the gospel, 333 00:12:03,785 --> 00:12:06,504 learn leadership, or learn how to follow someone 334 00:12:06,504 --> 00:12:08,825 towards a righteous path when their ribs are 335 00:12:08,825 --> 00:12:11,500 touching or when they, like all the necessary 336 00:12:11,799 --> 00:12:14,200 resources to be successful. Right? I mean, think 337 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:15,639 about it. If you if you have a 338 00:12:15,639 --> 00:12:18,519 choice between going to church or going out 339 00:12:18,519 --> 00:12:21,080 to the streets and hustling or doing whatever 340 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:22,220 it is to survive, 341 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,105 you're gonna worry about surviving first. And so 342 00:12:25,105 --> 00:12:27,264 it's really about what can we do as 343 00:12:27,264 --> 00:12:29,424 leaders within the church or outside of the 344 00:12:29,424 --> 00:12:30,725 church to help people 345 00:12:31,105 --> 00:12:33,345 look past their barriers or overcome their barriers 346 00:12:33,345 --> 00:12:35,024 so that they can find whether it's the 347 00:12:35,024 --> 00:12:37,524 teachings of Jesus Christ or education opportunities, 348 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:39,419 leadership opportunities. 349 00:12:39,959 --> 00:12:42,839 Because those opportunities help represent not only just 350 00:12:42,839 --> 00:12:45,720 one particular group, but the diversity of the 351 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,199 beloved community that I talk about. Like, you 352 00:12:48,199 --> 00:12:50,360 know, heavenly father loves all of us as 353 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,584 his children, and it should look diverse, and 354 00:12:52,584 --> 00:12:54,504 we should support one another as if it 355 00:12:54,504 --> 00:12:57,225 is that. Yeah. And I'm just curious, like, 356 00:12:57,225 --> 00:12:58,924 from a church leadership standpoint, 357 00:12:59,544 --> 00:13:01,225 any advice on how we can focus on 358 00:13:01,225 --> 00:13:03,565 the least of these, you know, these marginalized 359 00:13:03,625 --> 00:13:06,024 groups or help facilitate that so they actually 360 00:13:06,024 --> 00:13:08,339 have you know, they actually can start the 361 00:13:08,339 --> 00:13:10,259 journey in the gospel or continue in the 362 00:13:10,259 --> 00:13:12,740 gospel. Yeah. I think it's representation is really 363 00:13:12,740 --> 00:13:14,440 important. Like, obviously, 364 00:13:15,059 --> 00:13:17,620 if you have more diversity in leadership, you're 365 00:13:17,620 --> 00:13:20,120 able to reach out to those individuals, 366 00:13:20,644 --> 00:13:22,725 And not just diversity in regards to race. 367 00:13:22,725 --> 00:13:24,345 I think a lot of times we racialize 368 00:13:24,644 --> 00:13:25,144 things. 369 00:13:25,605 --> 00:13:27,384 I think diversity in our upbringing, 370 00:13:28,004 --> 00:13:30,164 our way of thinking, and then trying to 371 00:13:30,164 --> 00:13:31,924 reach out to those and look at different 372 00:13:31,924 --> 00:13:34,644 ways that you can help someone. Right? And 373 00:13:34,644 --> 00:13:36,779 I think, the church as a whole is 374 00:13:36,779 --> 00:13:39,199 doing a lot of different programs that help 375 00:13:39,259 --> 00:13:41,500 marginalized communities. That's why you see a lot 376 00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:44,459 of the church growth outside The US in 377 00:13:44,459 --> 00:13:46,399 places like Africa or 378 00:13:46,860 --> 00:13:47,679 Latin America, 379 00:13:48,059 --> 00:13:50,139 all these different places outside of our country 380 00:13:50,139 --> 00:13:52,575 where, you know, you have programs like succeed 381 00:13:52,575 --> 00:13:55,235 in school, the BYU pathway program, 382 00:13:55,695 --> 00:13:58,174 all these different programs that the church offers, 383 00:13:58,174 --> 00:13:59,934 not only do they share the gospel, but 384 00:13:59,934 --> 00:14:02,335 they remove the barriers that prevent someone from 385 00:14:02,335 --> 00:14:04,495 hearing the message. And that's the key aspect 386 00:14:04,495 --> 00:14:06,759 of leadership is what message can I share 387 00:14:06,759 --> 00:14:08,759 with this individual, whether as a leader or 388 00:14:08,759 --> 00:14:11,000 as a follower of Christ? What message can 389 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,059 I share with the individual 390 00:14:12,519 --> 00:14:14,860 that will help them overcome their barriers 391 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,019 and show them that god loves them? 392 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,095 Yeah. And I'm just curious if I'd love 393 00:14:20,095 --> 00:14:22,254 to focus on, you know, diversity. And, again, 394 00:14:22,254 --> 00:14:24,894 not just racial diversity, but just maybe economic 395 00:14:24,894 --> 00:14:27,394 diversity or someone with a similar background 396 00:14:27,774 --> 00:14:30,335 that maybe understands those resources. If they're, you 397 00:14:30,335 --> 00:14:32,815 know, if they're struggling to maybe find that 398 00:14:32,815 --> 00:14:33,315 diversity, 399 00:14:33,860 --> 00:14:35,139 is it a matter of, like, reaching out 400 00:14:35,139 --> 00:14:37,160 to some of these programs in the community, 401 00:14:37,300 --> 00:14:39,379 or are there is that maybe the a 402 00:14:39,379 --> 00:14:40,899 good place to start? Yeah. I think it's 403 00:14:40,899 --> 00:14:42,259 a good place to start. When you reach 404 00:14:42,259 --> 00:14:44,440 out to those different programs within the community, 405 00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:46,279 you'll see that the leadership 406 00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:49,399 within the church changes. It's more diverse. 407 00:14:49,754 --> 00:14:50,875 Like, if you were to go and look 408 00:14:50,875 --> 00:14:54,554 at missionary presidents or managers for, you know, 409 00:14:54,715 --> 00:14:57,434 different areas in the Africa, they're gonna be 410 00:14:57,434 --> 00:14:59,835 a representation of that community. And I think, 411 00:15:00,154 --> 00:15:02,235 you know, as we continue to not just 412 00:15:02,235 --> 00:15:04,919 look within our wards, our stakes, we'll see 413 00:15:04,919 --> 00:15:07,019 that the leadership in the church is diverse. 414 00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:08,840 And then we shouldn't look at it from 415 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,759 what we think diversity is. It's like you 416 00:15:10,759 --> 00:15:11,580 said, the socioeconomic 417 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,600 aspect, you know, from state to state, you 418 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,320 know, like the culture, the Latter Day Saint 419 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,320 culture in Washington may be a little different 420 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,394 from the Latter Day Saint culture in Utah. 421 00:15:21,534 --> 00:15:23,375 Yeah. That's for sure. And, you know, just 422 00:15:23,375 --> 00:15:26,115 trying to navigate those different communities 423 00:15:26,574 --> 00:15:28,735 and understand that the gospel of Jesus Christ 424 00:15:28,735 --> 00:15:30,495 is the same no matter where you go 425 00:15:30,495 --> 00:15:32,414 in the world. And then trying to not 426 00:15:32,735 --> 00:15:35,054 trying to look past the cultural barriers are, 427 00:15:35,054 --> 00:15:37,040 you know, what I would call prejudices 428 00:15:37,580 --> 00:15:39,660 that we have towards different aspects. So, you 429 00:15:39,660 --> 00:15:42,000 know, different groups are, you know, upgrades. 430 00:15:42,460 --> 00:15:45,660 Yeah. Anybody else, in your story that stands 431 00:15:45,660 --> 00:15:48,220 out like, coach Washington or your wife or 432 00:15:48,220 --> 00:15:50,595 anybody else? I have so many people. I 433 00:15:50,595 --> 00:15:52,855 mean, we all have our coach Washingtons. Right? 434 00:15:52,914 --> 00:15:55,174 I mean, those people who've believed in us. 435 00:15:55,394 --> 00:15:56,914 Man. So I wouldn't say that there's a 436 00:15:56,914 --> 00:15:58,914 certain person. I think there's an idea of 437 00:15:58,914 --> 00:16:00,754 what I look to. Like, I have people 438 00:16:00,754 --> 00:16:02,779 at work, my boss or my, 439 00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:06,779 chief operating director at my, job. He's a 440 00:16:06,779 --> 00:16:08,379 very good mentor of mine. His name is 441 00:16:08,379 --> 00:16:09,279 Charlie Frampton. 442 00:16:09,740 --> 00:16:11,740 I have Ruth. I have all of Ruth's 443 00:16:11,740 --> 00:16:14,080 family. You know, I didn't have, very many 444 00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:16,534 male role models in my life. So for 445 00:16:16,534 --> 00:16:18,214 me to have her family to kinda show 446 00:16:18,214 --> 00:16:20,774 me what the priesthood looks like, her father. 447 00:16:20,774 --> 00:16:22,634 I mean, there's so many different examples 448 00:16:23,014 --> 00:16:25,014 of people who helped me see the potential 449 00:16:25,014 --> 00:16:25,914 within myself 450 00:16:26,294 --> 00:16:28,695 and then allow me the opportunity to do, 451 00:16:28,934 --> 00:16:31,139 to reach it. Yeah. And it sounds like, 452 00:16:31,139 --> 00:16:34,419 you know, great influences in lives, you know, 453 00:16:34,419 --> 00:16:37,080 is crucial, especially maybe for troubled teens or 454 00:16:37,299 --> 00:16:38,980 those, you know, in tough spots of life. 455 00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:41,299 Any other advice you give to wards or 456 00:16:41,299 --> 00:16:44,019 parents who are worried about their teenagers or 457 00:16:44,019 --> 00:16:44,759 their YSA 458 00:16:45,475 --> 00:16:45,975 members? 459 00:16:46,514 --> 00:16:48,355 I think if you're a parent or a 460 00:16:48,355 --> 00:16:48,855 coach, 461 00:16:49,154 --> 00:16:52,195 anyone in a leadership position I mean, leadership 462 00:16:52,195 --> 00:16:55,075 is very diverse. I think it's when you're 463 00:16:55,075 --> 00:16:56,914 leading and you're a parent or you're a 464 00:16:56,914 --> 00:16:58,995 coach, I think you would wanna meet that 465 00:16:58,995 --> 00:17:01,940 person where they're at. So you identify where 466 00:17:01,940 --> 00:17:03,860 they're at and not to judge them, but 467 00:17:03,860 --> 00:17:05,240 to just try to see 468 00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:07,859 what they need in their lives to help 469 00:17:07,859 --> 00:17:09,559 them reach their potential. 470 00:17:10,099 --> 00:17:11,779 And to help them understand that they already 471 00:17:11,779 --> 00:17:12,519 have potential 472 00:17:12,845 --> 00:17:14,525 is not for them to feel like they 473 00:17:14,525 --> 00:17:17,244 need to earn it or to have someone 474 00:17:17,244 --> 00:17:19,164 give it to them. It's just providing them 475 00:17:19,164 --> 00:17:21,085 the right opportunity that's unique to them. I 476 00:17:21,085 --> 00:17:23,164 mean, with so many times, we expect people 477 00:17:23,164 --> 00:17:25,244 to get somewhere and we don't meet them 478 00:17:25,244 --> 00:17:26,990 where they're at. Coach Washington 479 00:17:27,289 --> 00:17:29,390 met us where we're at, where we're at. 480 00:17:29,690 --> 00:17:32,009 Ruth met us where we're at, you know, 481 00:17:32,009 --> 00:17:32,410 my, 482 00:17:33,130 --> 00:17:35,769 brother and I. And, like, we continue to 483 00:17:35,769 --> 00:17:37,930 overcome those barriers when someone can come to 484 00:17:37,930 --> 00:17:40,250 our position, to our perspective, and see what 485 00:17:40,250 --> 00:17:42,744 they look like. And then say, hey. I 486 00:17:42,744 --> 00:17:44,105 know that's a struggle for you. What can 487 00:17:44,105 --> 00:17:45,625 I do to help you? How can I 488 00:17:45,625 --> 00:17:47,945 help? Right? From a place of empathy, not 489 00:17:47,945 --> 00:17:50,184 from a place of judgment or to get 490 00:17:50,184 --> 00:17:53,144 anything out of it. Yeah. Is there any 491 00:17:53,144 --> 00:17:55,200 other examples as far as, like, servant leadership 492 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,460 that we should consider as as church leaders, 493 00:17:58,079 --> 00:18:00,319 either, you know, principles or parts of your 494 00:18:00,319 --> 00:18:00,819 story? 495 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,700 So the different principles is 10 characteristics 496 00:18:04,079 --> 00:18:06,099 that we can develop to be more 497 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,244 servant leading. It's listening, awareness, 498 00:18:09,945 --> 00:18:11,164 foresight, persuasion, 499 00:18:11,945 --> 00:18:13,325 and then, stewardship, 500 00:18:13,785 --> 00:18:15,884 trying to help with the growth of people, 501 00:18:16,025 --> 00:18:16,525 empathy, 502 00:18:16,904 --> 00:18:18,365 healing, and then conceptualization, 503 00:18:18,825 --> 00:18:19,805 and then establishing 504 00:18:20,345 --> 00:18:21,404 a beloved community. 505 00:18:21,809 --> 00:18:23,490 And it all begins with a place of 506 00:18:23,490 --> 00:18:25,829 love. Right? I think, we understand 507 00:18:26,289 --> 00:18:27,190 that we love 508 00:18:27,490 --> 00:18:30,210 all children of God and then understand that 509 00:18:30,210 --> 00:18:32,210 there's no difference when that message is the 510 00:18:32,210 --> 00:18:34,049 same. For me, you know, like, if I'm 511 00:18:34,049 --> 00:18:36,630 looking at certain leadership, I look at historical 512 00:18:36,849 --> 00:18:39,045 leaders. Many of the things that really resonated 513 00:18:39,045 --> 00:18:39,865 with me is 514 00:18:40,164 --> 00:18:43,765 doctor King or, Frederick Douglass, Booker t Washington, 515 00:18:43,765 --> 00:18:46,244 some of the historical servant leaders. They had 516 00:18:46,244 --> 00:18:48,325 the same message as some of our church 517 00:18:48,325 --> 00:18:50,884 leaders, our prophets and apostles. And it was 518 00:18:50,884 --> 00:18:54,049 the same message of love, right, and to 519 00:18:54,049 --> 00:18:55,670 not just be a leader from 520 00:18:55,970 --> 00:18:58,610 a title, from a dictatorship, but leading in 521 00:18:58,610 --> 00:19:01,009 a way where we follow the teachings of 522 00:19:01,009 --> 00:19:01,509 Christ. 523 00:19:01,809 --> 00:19:02,789 And we lead 524 00:19:03,090 --> 00:19:04,930 as Christ did, not from a place of 525 00:19:04,930 --> 00:19:07,465 authority, but from a place of action and 526 00:19:07,465 --> 00:19:08,285 a place of 527 00:19:08,744 --> 00:19:10,424 love. Yeah. I love that. And, you know, 528 00:19:10,424 --> 00:19:12,184 there's so many opportunities. Some of those characters, 529 00:19:12,184 --> 00:19:13,785 there were so many opportunities for them to 530 00:19:13,785 --> 00:19:15,545 go to war, right, and to fight back 531 00:19:15,545 --> 00:19:17,785 or, you know, push back. But in reality, 532 00:19:17,785 --> 00:19:20,105 they responded with love, and that really furthered 533 00:19:20,105 --> 00:19:20,924 their mission 534 00:19:21,390 --> 00:19:23,710 farther than any war or, you know, violence 535 00:19:23,710 --> 00:19:25,630 could have done. Yep. And I, you know, 536 00:19:25,630 --> 00:19:27,710 I talk about the prophet Joseph Smith and 537 00:19:27,710 --> 00:19:29,869 his experience with Zion's camp in the book 538 00:19:29,869 --> 00:19:32,210 as well. You know, they were being persecuted, 539 00:19:32,670 --> 00:19:35,215 and they they were traveling. And they one 540 00:19:35,215 --> 00:19:37,394 of the things that Joseph Smith did 541 00:19:37,695 --> 00:19:39,695 is he ministered to those who were in 542 00:19:39,695 --> 00:19:41,535 pain or who were injured along the trip. 543 00:19:41,535 --> 00:19:43,775 Right? So instead of trying to tell people 544 00:19:43,775 --> 00:19:44,595 what to do 545 00:19:44,975 --> 00:19:46,894 or focusing on the trials that they were 546 00:19:46,894 --> 00:19:49,509 facing, he chose to serve. And that's where 547 00:19:49,509 --> 00:19:51,829 that whole concept is. You know, the account 548 00:19:51,829 --> 00:19:53,670 says that they had learned to lead in 549 00:19:53,670 --> 00:19:55,509 the Lord's way when he was ministering to 550 00:19:55,509 --> 00:19:57,609 them, offering them precept blessings, 551 00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:59,529 helping them not be, 552 00:20:00,390 --> 00:20:01,954 kinda add, you know, 553 00:20:02,575 --> 00:20:04,974 oppositional towards one another when things got hard 554 00:20:04,974 --> 00:20:06,914 because they, face a lot of adversity. 555 00:20:07,214 --> 00:20:08,894 And so for them him to focus on 556 00:20:08,894 --> 00:20:10,194 those Christ like characteristics 557 00:20:10,494 --> 00:20:12,654 to lead in a way where he was 558 00:20:12,654 --> 00:20:13,154 ministering, 559 00:20:13,799 --> 00:20:16,279 grabbing anyone who who was willing to follow 560 00:20:16,279 --> 00:20:18,279 and to lead them on the covenant path 561 00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:21,320 was pretty cool. Yeah. You mentioned those 10 562 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,799 principles as far as, like, servant leadership. Do 563 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:25,160 you go over each one of those in 564 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:25,900 in the book? 565 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:27,720 Yes. I go over it and I kind 566 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,234 of interweave it with the life experience. 567 00:20:30,615 --> 00:20:32,934 So I kind of jump around with my 568 00:20:32,934 --> 00:20:35,734 life story, and I apply different things that 569 00:20:35,734 --> 00:20:38,134 I, encountered growing up or some of the 570 00:20:38,134 --> 00:20:40,234 experiences that I had to each characteristic. 571 00:20:40,934 --> 00:20:43,900 Awesome. And are there or a handful, two 572 00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:45,660 or three that you'd wanna focus on just 573 00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:47,420 to give us a taste of, you know, 574 00:20:47,420 --> 00:20:50,160 in a church leadership context? I would say 575 00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:50,880 stewardship, 576 00:20:51,420 --> 00:20:52,559 the beloved community, 577 00:20:53,180 --> 00:20:53,500 and, 578 00:20:54,380 --> 00:20:54,880 empathy. 579 00:20:55,259 --> 00:20:57,295 Love it. Where would we start with stewardship? 580 00:20:57,914 --> 00:21:00,414 Stewardship is, you know, we have, 581 00:21:01,035 --> 00:21:03,434 talent, and then we have people within our 582 00:21:03,434 --> 00:21:06,095 ward or our stakes that we are stewards 583 00:21:06,154 --> 00:21:08,474 over. And so, you know, making sure that 584 00:21:08,474 --> 00:21:10,575 we grow our talent in a certain way. 585 00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:11,680 I was at a leadership, 586 00:21:12,460 --> 00:21:13,759 or a or a priesthood, 587 00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:14,960 meeting yesterday. 588 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:18,299 You know, some people, maybe they invite more 589 00:21:18,299 --> 00:21:20,299 people to church or they may hand out 590 00:21:20,299 --> 00:21:22,700 the book of Mormon. And then maybe me, 591 00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:24,859 I write a book or, you know, some 592 00:21:24,859 --> 00:21:26,765 people are really good at speaking. 593 00:21:27,065 --> 00:21:29,164 And you're, you know, blessed with these opportunities 594 00:21:29,224 --> 00:21:30,744 based off the talents that you have to 595 00:21:30,744 --> 00:21:33,144 share a message. And it doesn't matter if 596 00:21:33,144 --> 00:21:35,224 it's a prominent position where you make a 597 00:21:35,224 --> 00:21:36,904 lot of money or if it's a humble 598 00:21:36,904 --> 00:21:37,404 position, 599 00:21:37,785 --> 00:21:39,625 just being able to utilize your talents and 600 00:21:39,625 --> 00:21:41,399 growing them. Kinda like me being on this 601 00:21:41,399 --> 00:21:44,839 podcast or me continuing to write, what can 602 00:21:44,839 --> 00:21:46,539 I do with my talents to 603 00:21:46,919 --> 00:21:48,359 develop them in a way where I can 604 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,859 share a message or share Christ's message? 605 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,000 So for me, it could be that or, 606 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,679 you know, if we're over a ward or 607 00:21:54,679 --> 00:21:57,045 a stake, how we cultivate in the talents 608 00:21:57,045 --> 00:21:59,125 within our the different offices, whether it be 609 00:21:59,125 --> 00:22:01,464 the youth or the relief society, 610 00:22:01,924 --> 00:22:04,184 within the presale, how can we cultivate 611 00:22:04,565 --> 00:22:05,304 those individuals 612 00:22:05,684 --> 00:22:07,980 that we stew over? Yeah. And I love 613 00:22:07,980 --> 00:22:09,900 that because you could have written all sorts 614 00:22:09,900 --> 00:22:12,059 of leadership books, especially in your journey with 615 00:22:12,059 --> 00:22:14,059 graduate work and leadership, but you wrote a 616 00:22:14,059 --> 00:22:15,819 book for the church or for Latter day 617 00:22:15,819 --> 00:22:18,539 Saints. Right? And that's not that, you know, 618 00:22:18,539 --> 00:22:19,819 you can write all sorts of books in 619 00:22:19,819 --> 00:22:21,194 the future as well, but it's a great 620 00:22:21,194 --> 00:22:23,275 way to give back and to recognize your 621 00:22:23,275 --> 00:22:25,755 stewardship. Yeah. In my book, I share a 622 00:22:25,755 --> 00:22:26,894 message from my, 623 00:22:27,275 --> 00:22:27,775 Ruth's 624 00:22:28,154 --> 00:22:31,034 grandfather where he was, from the island of 625 00:22:31,034 --> 00:22:31,534 Samoa, 626 00:22:31,914 --> 00:22:34,710 Western Samoa, and he was a stake president. 627 00:22:34,849 --> 00:22:38,450 And he would, travel from, stake award award 628 00:22:38,450 --> 00:22:40,309 when he gave his, speeches, 629 00:22:40,690 --> 00:22:42,609 you know, because, he would have to talk 630 00:22:42,609 --> 00:22:43,669 at different awards. 631 00:22:43,970 --> 00:22:45,169 And so what he would do is he 632 00:22:45,169 --> 00:22:46,690 would walk to each village to give a 633 00:22:46,690 --> 00:22:49,345 talk. And before he would leave or before 634 00:22:49,345 --> 00:22:51,825 he would, give his presentation or his talk, 635 00:22:51,825 --> 00:22:53,045 he would meticulously 636 00:22:53,664 --> 00:22:55,285 fold his clothes and put them into 637 00:22:55,825 --> 00:22:57,984 his bag so that they wouldn't get, you 638 00:22:57,984 --> 00:23:00,704 know, overly sweaty. Right? And then being able 639 00:23:00,704 --> 00:23:03,130 to travel to each village and share a 640 00:23:03,130 --> 00:23:03,630 message 641 00:23:03,930 --> 00:23:05,630 and then teaching that to 642 00:23:06,089 --> 00:23:08,250 to his children. Or he had a a 643 00:23:08,250 --> 00:23:10,730 store where he would invite some of the 644 00:23:10,730 --> 00:23:11,230 youth 645 00:23:11,529 --> 00:23:13,390 from the surrounding villages, 646 00:23:13,930 --> 00:23:15,930 invite them to his home, treat them as 647 00:23:15,930 --> 00:23:18,015 if they were his children. So for me, 648 00:23:18,015 --> 00:23:20,195 that was like a good, example of stewardship 649 00:23:20,734 --> 00:23:23,775 where you're really taking into account your calling. 650 00:23:23,775 --> 00:23:26,335 Right? Or, you know, the responsibility to go 651 00:23:26,335 --> 00:23:28,894 teach or speak where, you know, he took 652 00:23:28,894 --> 00:23:31,134 the time to walk to each village at 653 00:23:31,134 --> 00:23:34,539 that time and to really want to represent 654 00:23:34,539 --> 00:23:36,299 the lord in a certain way. And then 655 00:23:36,299 --> 00:23:38,460 also inviting everyone in his, you know, in 656 00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:41,339 the surrounding villages who may need food or 657 00:23:41,339 --> 00:23:43,440 needed a place to stay into his home. 658 00:23:43,660 --> 00:23:46,505 Yeah. Love that. Anything else with, stewardship that 659 00:23:46,505 --> 00:23:49,005 needs to be mentioned? I think just continue 660 00:23:49,065 --> 00:23:50,825 to understand the gifts that we have and 661 00:23:50,825 --> 00:23:52,265 not to bury them in the ground, but 662 00:23:52,265 --> 00:23:54,424 to continue to cultivate them in a way 663 00:23:54,424 --> 00:23:57,509 that brings, light to someone else. Yep. So 664 00:23:57,589 --> 00:23:59,210 So tell me about beloved community. 665 00:23:59,829 --> 00:24:01,990 If you were to think about Zion, that's 666 00:24:01,990 --> 00:24:04,390 the beloved community. Right? Like, if we were 667 00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:06,089 to look at it from a church context 668 00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:09,029 where everyone is invited, where there's a sense 669 00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:10,490 of belonging, where 670 00:24:10,804 --> 00:24:12,565 you want everyone to be part of the 671 00:24:12,724 --> 00:24:13,704 of this community, 672 00:24:14,005 --> 00:24:16,265 and we accept all people as they are. 673 00:24:16,565 --> 00:24:17,704 We accept differences. 674 00:24:18,244 --> 00:24:21,044 We acknowledge that they go through struggles, but 675 00:24:21,044 --> 00:24:23,044 then we help them overcome their struggles by 676 00:24:23,044 --> 00:24:25,660 inviting them into our community, where we strive 677 00:24:25,660 --> 00:24:27,340 to make them feel welcome. So if we 678 00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:29,420 were to invite someone into, you know, the 679 00:24:29,420 --> 00:24:31,580 ward or, you know, to invite them into 680 00:24:31,580 --> 00:24:33,660 our home, making sure that that there's a 681 00:24:33,660 --> 00:24:35,900 sense of belonging. And we only can do 682 00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:38,220 that when we know that, when we acknowledge 683 00:24:38,220 --> 00:24:40,454 that we're all children of God and, we 684 00:24:40,454 --> 00:24:41,275 wanna establish 685 00:24:41,894 --> 00:24:43,914 Zion here on Earth by being peacemakers. 686 00:24:44,535 --> 00:24:46,375 Right? And so we don't, you know, you 687 00:24:46,375 --> 00:24:48,454 don't look at people just because of their, 688 00:24:48,775 --> 00:24:51,414 different affiliations. Maybe they may remember the church, 689 00:24:51,414 --> 00:24:53,575 maybe they're not, but you still make them 690 00:24:53,575 --> 00:24:54,234 feel welcome. 691 00:24:54,750 --> 00:24:56,589 Yeah. I love that. Just the community part 692 00:24:56,589 --> 00:24:57,950 that we're not so much a church as 693 00:24:57,950 --> 00:25:00,029 we are a community or or a Zion 694 00:25:00,029 --> 00:25:02,990 community. Yeah. I agree. Hopefully, everybody feels that 695 00:25:02,990 --> 00:25:04,930 as they engage with with the church. Yeah. 696 00:25:05,470 --> 00:25:07,470 When I first began going to church, I 697 00:25:07,470 --> 00:25:09,309 didn't have all the church clothes and stuff. 698 00:25:09,309 --> 00:25:11,105 I had met Ruth in, so I didn't 699 00:25:11,105 --> 00:25:13,184 have a a suitor, you know, or anything 700 00:25:13,184 --> 00:25:15,024 like that. But when I would go, I 701 00:25:15,024 --> 00:25:16,544 would have just a t shirt on. It 702 00:25:16,544 --> 00:25:18,544 was my best dressed at the time. You 703 00:25:18,544 --> 00:25:21,345 know? So Yeah. But, you know, for me 704 00:25:21,345 --> 00:25:23,365 to go into a place and feel welcome 705 00:25:23,670 --> 00:25:25,750 is, really important. Right? And so it helped 706 00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:27,049 me keep going 707 00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:29,750 to church. Right? Or even for Ruth, she 708 00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:30,070 would, 709 00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:31,289 tie 710 00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:33,110 a tie for me because I didn't know 711 00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:34,390 how to tie a tie. So she would 712 00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:35,910 tie it around her neck and then give 713 00:25:35,910 --> 00:25:38,035 it to me. Right? So it kinda making 714 00:25:38,035 --> 00:25:40,115 me feel like, I belong when I did 715 00:25:40,115 --> 00:25:42,375 get the get the opportunity to have that 716 00:25:42,595 --> 00:25:44,835 tie or the shirt that I needed to, 717 00:25:44,835 --> 00:25:47,095 you know, feel more comfortable in church. 718 00:25:47,474 --> 00:25:50,535 Yeah. Love that. Alright. Tell me about empathy. 719 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,240 Empathy. That's one of my favorites because you 720 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,339 want to understand people's perspective. 721 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,799 I share my book about when I was 722 00:25:57,799 --> 00:26:00,680 in LA Southwest, I had met a young 723 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,359 man. He was in one of my math 724 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,680 classes and he was, from the local Crip 725 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,545 game. And he had came in there, he 726 00:26:06,545 --> 00:26:09,424 was all beat up, and, you know, he 727 00:26:09,424 --> 00:26:11,345 had so much potential because he actually knew 728 00:26:11,345 --> 00:26:12,785 all the answers to a lot of the 729 00:26:12,785 --> 00:26:15,125 questions, but because he had certain barriers, 730 00:26:15,424 --> 00:26:17,184 but he didn't obviously make it as far 731 00:26:17,184 --> 00:26:19,519 as I did. But when you kinda take 732 00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:21,920 a step back and put yourself in the 733 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,240 shoes of others, you know, you begin to 734 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,500 understand their story. Instead of judging, 735 00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:28,640 you know, maybe you can take the time 736 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,015 to walk in their shoes. Right? 737 00:26:30,494 --> 00:26:32,575 Walk in his blue Chuck Taylor, so to 738 00:26:32,575 --> 00:26:34,174 speak. And if you were to walk in 739 00:26:34,174 --> 00:26:36,414 his blue Chuck Taylors and understand some of 740 00:26:36,414 --> 00:26:38,894 the barriers that he encountered, would you still 741 00:26:38,894 --> 00:26:40,195 judge him the same way? 742 00:26:40,575 --> 00:26:42,654 What would be the answers to some of 743 00:26:42,654 --> 00:26:44,759 the problems that he had? Like, what would 744 00:26:44,759 --> 00:26:46,599 be your choice if you had that kind 745 00:26:46,599 --> 00:26:47,820 of scenario? 746 00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:50,299 You know, like, if we're in leadership positions, 747 00:26:50,759 --> 00:26:52,440 whether it's in the church or outside of 748 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,619 the church, having the empathy to 749 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,240 understand someone's struggles and look at it from 750 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:57,900 a perspective 751 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,375 of what are they going through and how 752 00:27:01,515 --> 00:27:02,575 can I help them? 753 00:27:02,954 --> 00:27:04,954 How can I feel that same emotion that 754 00:27:04,954 --> 00:27:07,994 they feel? Similar to Jesus Christ. Right? He 755 00:27:07,994 --> 00:27:10,575 helped the least of these throughout his ministry. 756 00:27:10,875 --> 00:27:12,820 He would meet them where they're at, and 757 00:27:12,820 --> 00:27:14,500 he would offer a place of, he would 758 00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:14,980 always, 759 00:27:15,299 --> 00:27:16,039 be empathetic 760 00:27:16,420 --> 00:27:17,880 towards the one. Right? 761 00:27:18,259 --> 00:27:20,580 Yeah. And definitely in this effort as we 762 00:27:20,580 --> 00:27:23,140 reach out to minority communities or minority you 763 00:27:23,140 --> 00:27:26,039 know, the atypical person in our community, 764 00:27:26,615 --> 00:27:28,295 we're gonna need a lot of empathy because 765 00:27:28,295 --> 00:27:30,934 most likely we won't relate specifically to their 766 00:27:30,934 --> 00:27:33,095 story. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the only 767 00:27:33,095 --> 00:27:34,695 way we can relate to someone's story is 768 00:27:34,695 --> 00:27:37,575 through empathy. It's kinda like the adulteress woman. 769 00:27:37,575 --> 00:27:38,075 Everyone 770 00:27:38,535 --> 00:27:38,855 was, 771 00:27:39,414 --> 00:27:42,630 judging her. And then Christ came, and he 772 00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:44,630 came from a place of empathy. And he 773 00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:46,549 placed a crown on her, on her head 774 00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:48,309 before she knew it was, on top of 775 00:27:48,309 --> 00:27:50,309 it and allowed her to grow into it, 776 00:27:50,309 --> 00:27:52,150 right, by showing her the empathy and the 777 00:27:52,150 --> 00:27:54,494 forgiveness that she needed. And what if we 778 00:27:54,494 --> 00:27:56,815 were to do the same? Like, despite someone's 779 00:27:56,815 --> 00:27:59,055 past history or despite the struggle that they 780 00:27:59,055 --> 00:27:59,555 endured, 781 00:27:59,934 --> 00:28:01,535 what if we were to come from a 782 00:28:01,535 --> 00:28:03,215 place of empathy and place a crown on 783 00:28:03,215 --> 00:28:04,815 their head by the way we treat them, 784 00:28:04,815 --> 00:28:06,894 by the way we lead and the way 785 00:28:06,894 --> 00:28:09,049 that we interact with them? Then they would 786 00:28:09,049 --> 00:28:11,690 eventually find the covenant path. You know, whether 787 00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:14,569 it's now or in the future time, it's 788 00:28:14,569 --> 00:28:16,410 important for us to just be able to 789 00:28:16,410 --> 00:28:19,130 be empathetic. Right? I mean, and listen and 790 00:28:19,130 --> 00:28:19,630 to 791 00:28:20,089 --> 00:28:21,390 just help someone, 792 00:28:21,724 --> 00:28:24,705 love someone, like, similar to how Christ did. 793 00:28:24,924 --> 00:28:27,805 Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, Ernest, any other 794 00:28:27,805 --> 00:28:30,045 point principle concept that we need to make 795 00:28:30,045 --> 00:28:30,865 sure we include? 796 00:28:31,404 --> 00:28:32,125 No. I think, 797 00:28:32,605 --> 00:28:35,404 diversity and, you know, sharing our testimonies. You 798 00:28:35,404 --> 00:28:37,269 know, this book was a opportunity for me 799 00:28:37,269 --> 00:28:40,170 to share my testimony that's obviously very unique, 800 00:28:40,309 --> 00:28:42,869 but then different from your typical, you know, 801 00:28:42,869 --> 00:28:44,869 church or a Latter day Saint book. And 802 00:28:44,869 --> 00:28:46,710 so I hope that, you know, people take 803 00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:48,070 the time to read it or take the 804 00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:50,250 time to understand what it means to 805 00:28:50,605 --> 00:28:52,365 lead as an action and not be a 806 00:28:52,365 --> 00:28:54,924 leader, you know, as a noun. Right? Like, 807 00:28:54,924 --> 00:28:57,484 trying to lead as a verb and, you 808 00:28:57,484 --> 00:28:59,904 know, put people in positions for success 809 00:29:00,284 --> 00:29:02,444 and then understanding what you can do to 810 00:29:02,444 --> 00:29:05,049 be more like Jesus Christ. Love it. And 811 00:29:05,049 --> 00:29:06,890 if people wanna check out the book, obviously, 812 00:29:06,890 --> 00:29:09,289 Amazon is the place, but or any other 813 00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:10,570 place you would send them if they wanna 814 00:29:10,570 --> 00:29:12,330 learn about more about you, your work, or 815 00:29:12,330 --> 00:29:12,990 the book? 816 00:29:13,289 --> 00:29:14,330 Yeah. You can go to, 817 00:29:15,130 --> 00:29:17,690 Amazon. It's just fine or Cedar Fort Publishing 818 00:29:17,690 --> 00:29:19,775 and Media. You can also find the book 819 00:29:19,775 --> 00:29:21,075 or Deseret Books. 820 00:29:21,454 --> 00:29:23,134 Yeah. You can find it at any of 821 00:29:23,134 --> 00:29:23,875 those locations. 822 00:29:24,335 --> 00:29:26,015 Love it. Very good. So what's the next 823 00:29:26,015 --> 00:29:26,755 book, Ernest? 824 00:29:27,134 --> 00:29:29,055 I'm actually thinking about writing a book on 825 00:29:29,055 --> 00:29:30,115 the ironic priesthood, 826 00:29:30,494 --> 00:29:33,240 and then it's called tap in the Lord's 827 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,039 work. So tap in tap is, teaching ironic 828 00:29:36,039 --> 00:29:37,099 priesthood principles. 829 00:29:37,639 --> 00:29:39,480 So it's something I was kinda inspired to 830 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,880 do when I went to, Elimin and Camp 831 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,694 Moroni this past summer. So of a unique 832 00:29:44,694 --> 00:29:45,194 opportunity. 833 00:29:45,974 --> 00:29:47,835 Me and my boys were able to walk, 834 00:29:47,894 --> 00:29:50,534 you know, Zion's Camp. So for me being 835 00:29:50,534 --> 00:29:53,575 of African American descent, obviously, that's not, something 836 00:29:53,575 --> 00:29:55,255 that's always been offered to us. So it 837 00:29:55,255 --> 00:29:56,714 was a very unique opportunity 838 00:29:57,230 --> 00:29:58,589 for us to walk, you know, for me 839 00:29:58,589 --> 00:29:59,869 to do to do it for the first 840 00:29:59,869 --> 00:30:01,390 time and to do with my sons was 841 00:30:01,390 --> 00:30:03,950 pretty cool. And so I was really prompted, 842 00:30:03,950 --> 00:30:05,789 you know, to write something like that for 843 00:30:05,789 --> 00:30:08,430 them and to kinda share my testimony and 844 00:30:08,430 --> 00:30:09,330 that whole experience. 845 00:30:09,664 --> 00:30:11,105 I love that. I think that'll be a 846 00:30:11,105 --> 00:30:12,944 great book, and we'll have to do another 847 00:30:12,944 --> 00:30:14,644 conversation when it comes to that. 848 00:30:15,184 --> 00:30:17,904 So really good. Well, definitely hopefully, people check 849 00:30:17,904 --> 00:30:19,424 out the book. Again, it's Leading in the 850 00:30:19,424 --> 00:30:21,605 Lord's Way, a Journey of Servant Leadership. 851 00:30:22,150 --> 00:30:23,829 Last question I have for you, Ernest, is 852 00:30:23,829 --> 00:30:25,509 as you reflect on your life and how 853 00:30:25,509 --> 00:30:27,589 you've led, how has being a leader helped 854 00:30:27,589 --> 00:30:29,929 you become a better follower of Jesus Christ? 855 00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:32,329 Well, I look to Christ as my example 856 00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:36,464 or I learned that leading is always continuously 857 00:30:36,765 --> 00:30:38,924 evolving. Right? And for me to kind of 858 00:30:38,924 --> 00:30:40,144 learn from my experiences 859 00:30:40,684 --> 00:30:41,964 at the time when I was going through 860 00:30:41,964 --> 00:30:43,565 everything that I went through, I would have 861 00:30:43,565 --> 00:30:46,045 not thought it was to my at I 862 00:30:46,045 --> 00:30:47,804 didn't think it was advantageous. Right? I didn't 863 00:30:47,804 --> 00:30:49,585 think it was gonna be for my benefit. 864 00:30:49,710 --> 00:30:51,230 But when I look back on it now, 865 00:30:51,230 --> 00:30:52,750 I understand that it developed me in a 866 00:30:52,750 --> 00:30:54,509 way where I can lead more effectively, where 867 00:30:54,509 --> 00:30:56,429 I can lead with empathy, or I can 868 00:30:56,429 --> 00:30:58,750 understand the perspective of someone who does not 869 00:30:58,750 --> 00:31:00,289 have certain things. 870 00:31:00,589 --> 00:31:02,349 And so for me, I think it's just 871 00:31:02,349 --> 00:31:04,190 understanding that whatever we go through in life, 872 00:31:04,190 --> 00:31:05,329 whether it be difficult 873 00:31:05,924 --> 00:31:08,325 or somewhat with ease, I know, and I 874 00:31:08,325 --> 00:31:10,485 think Eric can testify to it as well, 875 00:31:10,485 --> 00:31:12,825 that it developed us to be better men 876 00:31:12,965 --> 00:31:15,125 and which helped us be better leaders within 877 00:31:15,125 --> 00:31:17,205 the home. And then we all looked at 878 00:31:17,205 --> 00:31:19,125 our struggles that way, knowing that God was 879 00:31:19,125 --> 00:31:21,160 preparing us for a great work, that he 880 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,180 was preparing us to lead in his way, 881 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:24,940 which is not from a organization, 882 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,980 it's not from place of authority. 883 00:31:28,279 --> 00:31:30,200 It's from a place of humble position where 884 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,279 we learn from our experiences and take those 885 00:31:32,279 --> 00:31:34,815 experiences to help out other people, to share 886 00:31:34,815 --> 00:31:36,755 a message, and to help others 887 00:31:37,134 --> 00:31:38,515 find the covenant path. 888 00:31:45,694 --> 00:31:48,019 That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints 889 00:31:48,019 --> 00:31:49,859 podcast. We'd love to hear from you about 890 00:31:49,859 --> 00:31:51,700 your questions or thoughts or comments. You can 891 00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:54,019 either leave a comment on the, post related 892 00:31:54,019 --> 00:31:56,579 to this episode at leadingsaints.org, 893 00:31:56,579 --> 00:31:58,920 or go to leadingsaints.org/contact 894 00:31:58,980 --> 00:32:01,414 and send us your perspective or questions. If 895 00:32:01,414 --> 00:32:03,174 there's other episodes or topics you'd like to 896 00:32:03,174 --> 00:32:05,095 hear on the Leading Saints podcast, go to 897 00:32:05,095 --> 00:32:06,855 leadingsaints.org/contact 898 00:32:06,855 --> 00:32:09,095 and share with us the information there. And 899 00:32:09,095 --> 00:32:10,855 we would love for you to share this 900 00:32:10,855 --> 00:32:13,015 with any individual you think this would apply 901 00:32:13,015 --> 00:32:15,414 to, especially maybe individuals in your ward council 902 00:32:15,414 --> 00:32:17,609 or other leaders that you may know who 903 00:32:17,609 --> 00:32:20,190 would really appreciate the perspectives that we discussed. 904 00:32:29,994 --> 00:32:32,494 It came as a result of the position 905 00:32:32,555 --> 00:32:35,535 of leadership which was imposed upon us 906 00:32:35,914 --> 00:32:38,714 by the God of heaven who brought forth 907 00:32:38,714 --> 00:32:39,615 a restoration 908 00:32:39,914 --> 00:32:42,255 of the gospel of Jesus Christ. 909 00:32:43,049 --> 00:32:43,950 When the declaration 910 00:32:44,330 --> 00:32:46,750 was made concerning the only 911 00:32:47,289 --> 00:32:49,769 true and living Church upon the face of 912 00:32:49,769 --> 00:32:50,430 the earth, 913 00:32:50,970 --> 00:32:53,710 we were immediately put in a position of 914 00:32:53,850 --> 00:32:56,190 loneliness, the loneliness of leadership 915 00:32:56,962 --> 00:32:59,862 from which we cannot shrink nor run away, 916 00:33:00,642 --> 00:33:03,122 and to which we must face up with 917 00:33:03,122 --> 00:33:04,582 boldness and courage 918 00:33:05,122 --> 00:33:05,942 and ability.