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Alright. Here's our goal, folks. Leading Saints is

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no longer a podcast. Well, obviously, we are

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a podcast. We will continue to podcast, but

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we're really shifting our focus over to Zion

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Lab, which is an online community

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put on and developed by leading saints.

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And this is where we want to go

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and gather the masses

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and share ideas about leadership, share ideas about

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different callings, share ideas about building Zion.

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And this is the place that we want

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to make online, where all things are discussed,

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great ideas are shared, and that we can

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help one another in whatever calling we're in

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or what calling we're not in to feel

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like, you know, I've got purpose here. I

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can really make a difference in shifting culture

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in a better way or developing Zion in

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my own corner of the kingdom. So join

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us over at Zion Lab at leadingsaints.org/zion,

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and there you can just jump in. It's

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free to join and create a profile and

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jump in and and look around and answer

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some questions. Leave a comment, pose a question,

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and I think you'll benefit from the things

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we're doing over at Zion Lab. So join

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us. I got an email the other day

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from an individual. I forget where he is

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in the world, but he says, Kurt, I

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love Leading Saints, and I listen to it

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every time I'm on the treadmill.

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And then one time during an interview, he

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heard that Leading Saints has a YouTube channel

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and, like, all the interviews, at least the

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vast majority of them, are video recorded and

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you can watch the video recording of the

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podcast episodes. And I'm like, yeah, man. Get

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on there. Go subscribe on YouTube to Leading

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Saints, and you can get a visual of

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the interview and not just an audio experience.

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And even if you're not a big YouTube

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user, do us a favor because this actually

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helps us gain more reach and,

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expose our content to individuals who could really

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benefit from it, leaders around the world. So

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regardless if you are on YouTube a lot

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or not, go to YouTube and search for

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leading saints, find the familiar red logo, and

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just subscribe. Even

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if you don't plan to view every episode

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there, that's gonna help us, gain a larger

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audience and more reach, dial in the algorithm,

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and, we'll start showing up on leaders' feeds

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that they didn't know how much they're missing

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here at leading saints. So head on over

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to YouTube, search for Leading Saints, and subscribe

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to our channel and leave a comment every

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once in a while, but be nice.

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So I'm recording this on

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09/17/2025,

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a week after

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the horrific murder of Charlie Kirk on UVU

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campus here in my county,

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Utah County in Orem, Utah.

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And, man,

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emotion that came from this, the tragedy, the

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the stress, the trauma

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that everybody experienced on maybe on different levels.

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And I tell the story in this, recording

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that you're about to hear about how we

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approached it as an elders quorum, and maybe

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some things to to consider as there's tragedy

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that happens in our community, in our nation,

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where there's heaviness or there's hurt happening, there's

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anger, there's sadness, there's all types of emotions.

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How do we handle that at church? What

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do we do with that at church? Do

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we ignore it and just get to the

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lesson and talk about, you know, the doctrine

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and Jesus Christ and these things and pretend

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like it didn't happen? Or is there a

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way we can actually stimulate unity in our

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word, stimulate healing, stimulate connection

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that maybe

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isn't as easy to do when all is

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well in the world? Right? So Dan Duckworth,

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joined me in the Zion Lab community where

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we just had a discussion about this. Me

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and him dialogue back and forth. We took

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some questions and thoughts and and of course,

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we're not experts at any of this. However,

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there's so many leadership principles to understand in

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this to really,

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again, stimulate that connection and unity and to

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lead, to lead in those moments of hurt

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and that those moments of anger and frustration

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and and discord. There's so many places to

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lean in here even when it's risky or

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it may not go well or how do

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I do that? Right? So we we go

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through that. I think church has such a

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higher purpose than just going to a place

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with your neighbors and learning about the gospel.

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Like, yeah, that's important. And, of course, the

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renewing of ordinances and all that sacred that

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sacred process is is crucial. But I think

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there's a higher level of why we go

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to church, and I think it's, these tragedies

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that we experience in our in our communities,

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in our, society can teach us a lot

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about what church is really for and and

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why do we go to church especially when

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we hurt. And so I hope this discussion

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is not only helpful for this, current event,

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this current tragedy, but also for future tragedies

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and that we may experience a mortality that

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may hit our community, whether it's a death

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in the ward, a suicide,

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you know, something happening

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that just brings trauma to the ward. How

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do we handle that well and make it

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a healing place at church? So here's my

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discussion in a live stream with Dan Duckworth.

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Let's jump into it, Dan. Like, I guess

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the story behind this is,

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and where does where does it start? You

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had mentioned something.

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We were just kinda going back and forth

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about what we're hearing about, you know, the

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Sunday experience in different wards. Some had just

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maybe read a statement over, you know, the

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or reiterated the church's statements that they released,

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from their communications departments.

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Just read that to kind of, again, emphasize

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the, you know, the stand of

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our, of the church and the institutional church.

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And, I had mentioned, well, actually I'm going

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to make it the main focus of my

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elders quorum. And so that started a discussion,

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but I mean, where's, how do we build

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some framing around this? What comes to mind?

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Yeah. What comes to my mind is

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there's always this constant tension

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between what is an institutional response versus what

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is a leadership response

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when there is crisis or a tragedy or

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something like that. And I think that we,

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as a church culture, we've been kind of

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conditioned to look to the institution to

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tell us how we should

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approach a situation like this, whether it's a

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natural disaster or

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a political tragedy or something like that. Or

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really any any situation. Right? Even the, you

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know, the everyday situations, we look to the

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institution church. Yeah. Right. And I think for

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me, the core always comes down to the

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a leader

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intuits the next move

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from the moment itself.

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Now when I say that, that's gonna sound

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a little bit abstract for people, but the

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question is always as a leader. So not

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a not a called leader.

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You know, you maybe you're a Relief Society

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president, maybe you're an elder's court president, maybe

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you're a bishop, maybe you're not. But if

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you show up in the situation and you

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feel a call saying something needs to happen

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here, there's something going on. And if we

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just let the status quo hold or if

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we if we let inertia take us where

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it's gonna take us, it's not going to

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lead us to where we wanna go. We're

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not gonna get the outcomes and the results

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that we need. And by results, mostly what

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I mean is the

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unification of the community, the Zion moment that

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we can talk about here on, you know,

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Zion Lab.

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So as a leader,

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when you start to feel these tensions in

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your community and the disruption that's happening from

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current events,

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the temptation is to go towards a management

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mindset,

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which is to return things to peace,

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to return things to the status quo, to

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return things to predictability and stability.

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But leadership looks at it. A leadership lens

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looks at it very differently, and it says,

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what is needed in the moment?

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What do we need to do in this

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moment? What can we do with this moment?

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So you're looking at the moment itself, and

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that involves the values of your community, the

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purposes that, you know, the community has, and

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the unmet needs that the community has as

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well. So what would happen for a group

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here in Utah County where the tragedy struck

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it might be different than what's needed somewhere

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else. Right? So there's not a one size

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fits all,

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but there is something that has to be

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intuitive from this. And, Kurt, this is where

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kind of your response comes into play here

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because

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you felt

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something calling to you in the moment saying

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something more was needed than whatever you had

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planned initially for Elder's Quorum. Yeah. Yeah. And

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really, you know, that one size fits all

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dream, like, it's not gonna happen. And and

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that's the really, that's the only way that

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an institutional

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any institution can respond is, like, here's our

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one size fits all. Like, I hope it

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works or it's very vague. Right? And, again,

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that's not the fault of the institution. It's

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the nature of an institution. Right? That there

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Mhmm. There's things locally that we can perceive

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or, you know, intuit, like you say, that

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the institutional

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organization may not pick up on or or

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even know to respond to. So in my

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experience,

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you know, obviously

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terrible tragedy at UVU with Charlie Kirk and

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and his, his murder there in front of,

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you know, thousands of of individuals.

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And, you know, here we are just down

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the street, essentially, less than 10 miles away.

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And I just noticed for myself, like, it

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just really took me out. Right. And it's

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easy to think like, oh, that just must

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be me or, or it was just little

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nuances. Like, Hey, I felt like I couldn't

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really focus. I wasn't getting a lot done

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in my typical day. And so we have

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a I'm the elders quorum president, if people

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don't know that know that piece of context.

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And so we have a text thread, a

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group me text thread in our elders quorum.

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And so I just put a message in

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there, said this was the next day at,

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in the morning. 09:30 in the morning, I

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said, after such a national political tragedy

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happens, so close to home, does anyone else

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find themselves spacing out, distracted, and scrolling way

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too much? And immediately,

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just like message after message. Yep. Yes. Yep.

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You know, thumbs up on the

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the experience. And one guy says, oh yeah,

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I don't even, I don't even have social

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media on my phone, but I'm constantly grabbing

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my wife's phone and scrolling on that. So

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so that was, like, a huge indicator where

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I'm, like, I'm perceiving something in me. I

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wonder if it's a community experience more generally.

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And, obviously, it was a surprise, unfortunately,

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that it was. And so and then the

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the thought came to me is, like, what

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00:10:08,694 --> 00:10:11,480
is church for If we can't create a

264
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space as a community to rally together

265
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and, you know, talk about what's going on

266
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and how we're responding to it and how

267
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do we bring the savior into all this

268
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for the the healing. So, anyways, that was

269
00:10:23,595 --> 00:10:25,914
sort of the the moment. Yeah. Before you

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00:10:25,914 --> 00:10:27,834
keep going with the story, I wanna just

271
00:10:27,834 --> 00:10:29,674
kind of jump on something that you said

272
00:10:29,674 --> 00:10:31,934
there. You said I I was perceiving something.

273
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And I think this is such a critical

274
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aspect of leadership that is overlooked by people

275
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who are trying to perform leadership in terms

276
00:10:39,870 --> 00:10:41,410
of roles and expectations.

277
00:10:42,110 --> 00:10:44,429
You perceive something first because you perceived it

278
00:10:44,429 --> 00:10:47,149
in yourself. Right? You said I'm having a

279
00:10:47,149 --> 00:10:48,049
very human

280
00:10:48,350 --> 00:10:50,590
response to this. Now it could be that

281
00:10:50,590 --> 00:10:52,350
you're having that response because of your own

282
00:10:52,350 --> 00:10:52,850
backstory,

283
00:10:53,424 --> 00:10:54,165
your own

284
00:10:54,545 --> 00:10:56,465
political beliefs, your own whatever, and it could

285
00:10:56,465 --> 00:10:58,304
be that it's not I love that you

286
00:10:58,304 --> 00:10:59,845
then went out to the community,

287
00:11:00,304 --> 00:11:02,945
and you just were vulnerable. And you said

288
00:11:03,105 --> 00:11:04,865
you didn't say, hey. Is any out here

289
00:11:04,865 --> 00:11:06,945
feeling this way? You said, I'm feeling this

290
00:11:06,945 --> 00:11:08,860
way. So you just validate it for anybody

291
00:11:08,860 --> 00:11:10,379
else that if they're feeling that way, you

292
00:11:10,379 --> 00:11:11,759
can jump into this conversation.

293
00:11:12,220 --> 00:11:14,700
You said, I'm feeling this way. And then

294
00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:16,620
you let them jump in and say, yes.

295
00:11:16,620 --> 00:11:19,820
Me too. Right? Now sometimes you don't feel

296
00:11:19,820 --> 00:11:20,559
it yourself.

297
00:11:20,940 --> 00:11:23,040
But if you've been a human being before,

298
00:11:23,445 --> 00:11:25,285
it doesn't take very much to stop and

299
00:11:25,285 --> 00:11:27,764
say, I bet other people are feeling something

300
00:11:27,764 --> 00:11:29,845
right now. Even if I'm not feeling it,

301
00:11:29,845 --> 00:11:31,764
I bet other people are feeling something right

302
00:11:31,764 --> 00:11:33,125
now. And so you could still go out

303
00:11:33,125 --> 00:11:35,605
to the community and say, I was sitting

304
00:11:35,605 --> 00:11:37,970
and thinking about this, and the thought crossed

305
00:11:37,970 --> 00:11:40,610
my mind that some of us, not some

306
00:11:40,610 --> 00:11:42,450
of you, but some of us in this

307
00:11:42,450 --> 00:11:42,950
community,

308
00:11:43,330 --> 00:11:45,409
we might be having an experience with this

309
00:11:45,409 --> 00:11:48,450
even if we weren't there on-site. Number one,

310
00:11:48,450 --> 00:11:49,809
for those of us who live in Utah,

311
00:11:49,809 --> 00:11:51,029
it happened in our neighborhood.

312
00:11:51,355 --> 00:11:52,815
Number two, it happened

313
00:11:53,274 --> 00:11:56,475
in Mormon Land. Right? So the whole world

314
00:11:56,475 --> 00:11:59,035
is sort of associating this with our church,

315
00:11:59,035 --> 00:12:00,955
whether they're saying it or not. That's kind

316
00:12:00,955 --> 00:12:03,294
of a low grade thread going on here.

317
00:12:03,470 --> 00:12:05,629
Number three, it's just the politics of our

318
00:12:05,629 --> 00:12:08,049
time. This is one more among many.

319
00:12:08,590 --> 00:12:10,750
So it's kinda stacking. Right? So you can

320
00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:12,590
go out there and proceed. And then on

321
00:12:12,590 --> 00:12:15,230
a scriptural basis, let's just note, this kind

322
00:12:15,230 --> 00:12:15,889
of leadership

323
00:12:16,205 --> 00:12:19,404
is what the scriptural leaders show us. So

324
00:12:19,404 --> 00:12:20,304
when Ammon

325
00:12:20,764 --> 00:12:21,985
says to King Lamoni,

326
00:12:22,445 --> 00:12:23,264
I perceive

327
00:12:23,725 --> 00:12:24,865
that you are troubled

328
00:12:25,325 --> 00:12:26,144
in your heart.

329
00:12:26,764 --> 00:12:29,965
Mhmm. Yep. That's exactly what you just modeled,

330
00:12:29,965 --> 00:12:31,504
Kurt. And that is

331
00:12:31,940 --> 00:12:33,379
the intuition. You can call it whatever you

332
00:12:33,379 --> 00:12:35,620
want, but that's the holy ghost. Whether the

333
00:12:35,620 --> 00:12:37,299
holy ghost gave you that thought or it

334
00:12:37,299 --> 00:12:39,379
validated that that was a true and good

335
00:12:39,379 --> 00:12:42,039
and worthy thought, that is the holy ghost

336
00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:43,480
with the gift of discernment.

337
00:12:44,095 --> 00:12:46,095
K? So when we talk about these things,

338
00:12:46,095 --> 00:12:47,934
we think we often think way too much

339
00:12:47,934 --> 00:12:49,855
about, like, oh, the gift of discernment is

340
00:12:49,855 --> 00:12:52,254
deciding who's gonna serve and what calling. Now

341
00:12:52,254 --> 00:12:53,315
the gift of discernment,

342
00:12:53,774 --> 00:12:56,014
we would use the word perception in today's

343
00:12:56,014 --> 00:12:58,870
world. It's the gift of perception. I perceive

344
00:12:58,870 --> 00:13:00,950
that there are things happening either in you

345
00:13:00,950 --> 00:13:01,769
as an individual

346
00:13:02,149 --> 00:13:03,529
or in my community

347
00:13:04,070 --> 00:13:05,769
that need to be given a voice.

348
00:13:06,389 --> 00:13:08,709
Yeah. And this is the thing. Like, if

349
00:13:08,709 --> 00:13:11,414
there's any power of inspiration or keys or

350
00:13:11,414 --> 00:13:13,574
things happening here, and it doesn't necessarily happen

351
00:13:13,574 --> 00:13:15,574
to only those who hold that formal, you

352
00:13:15,574 --> 00:13:16,875
know, keys or authority.

353
00:13:17,414 --> 00:13:19,815
But, I think a lot of leaders, you

354
00:13:19,815 --> 00:13:22,054
know, even in or outside of formal callings,

355
00:13:22,054 --> 00:13:23,889
they've had this experience where they're like, man,

356
00:13:23,889 --> 00:13:25,169
I just can't get that person out of

357
00:13:25,169 --> 00:13:26,850
my mind. Right. And I don't necessarily have

358
00:13:26,850 --> 00:13:28,529
a clear prompting of I should go visit

359
00:13:28,529 --> 00:13:30,690
them or whatever, but, you know, I'm gonna

360
00:13:30,690 --> 00:13:32,209
make an extra effort to reach out or

361
00:13:32,209 --> 00:13:34,049
something. And that that perception I think is,

362
00:13:34,209 --> 00:13:35,889
at the core of leadership that we really

363
00:13:35,889 --> 00:13:38,035
have to be tuned into where I don't

364
00:13:38,035 --> 00:13:40,915
necessarily think it's all always, you know, a

365
00:13:40,915 --> 00:13:43,554
clear, direct spiritual prompt, as much as like,

366
00:13:43,554 --> 00:13:46,274
you're just in that cadence of, you know,

367
00:13:46,274 --> 00:13:47,794
you, you want to pick up on those

368
00:13:47,794 --> 00:13:49,794
things that this seem off or not right.

369
00:13:49,794 --> 00:13:52,049
You know? Yeah. So let me give you,

370
00:13:52,049 --> 00:13:54,049
this is a different story of a different

371
00:13:54,049 --> 00:13:55,809
tragedy. So when we first moved into our

372
00:13:55,809 --> 00:13:57,730
ward, there was a suicide in the, in

373
00:13:57,730 --> 00:13:59,730
the house next to us. A 13 year

374
00:13:59,730 --> 00:14:00,389
old boy

375
00:14:00,769 --> 00:14:01,909
took his own life.

376
00:14:02,210 --> 00:14:02,710
And

377
00:14:03,254 --> 00:14:05,735
apparently we were very deep sleepers because we

378
00:14:05,735 --> 00:14:08,054
were not aware of this. The sirens came

379
00:14:08,054 --> 00:14:09,335
in the middle of the night, all the

380
00:14:09,335 --> 00:14:11,174
stuff, and we slept right through it. And

381
00:14:11,174 --> 00:14:12,394
we showed up at church

382
00:14:12,774 --> 00:14:15,035
and had no idea what was going on,

383
00:14:15,330 --> 00:14:18,790
but immediately I perceived that something was wrong.

384
00:14:18,850 --> 00:14:20,070
Just sitting in the congregation,

385
00:14:20,450 --> 00:14:23,330
I'm just sitting there going, something feels really

386
00:14:23,330 --> 00:14:25,730
off right now. And so I texted a

387
00:14:25,730 --> 00:14:27,090
couple of people while I was sitting in

388
00:14:27,090 --> 00:14:28,995
that room saying like, Hey, did I miss

389
00:14:28,995 --> 00:14:31,075
something? Like what's going on here? And then

390
00:14:31,075 --> 00:14:33,495
somebody said, oh, there was a suicide.

391
00:14:34,035 --> 00:14:36,115
And it was so and so who doesn't

392
00:14:36,115 --> 00:14:37,715
actually live next door to us, but his

393
00:14:37,715 --> 00:14:38,774
grandpa does.

394
00:14:39,154 --> 00:14:41,075
And so then, you know, I found out

395
00:14:41,075 --> 00:14:43,009
that it was at the house next door

396
00:14:43,009 --> 00:14:43,909
that it happened.

397
00:14:44,289 --> 00:14:46,149
So now I'm sitting there in that room

398
00:14:46,450 --> 00:14:49,250
and I'm having this really weird experience of

399
00:14:49,250 --> 00:14:49,750
knowing

400
00:14:50,129 --> 00:14:51,990
that a member of our congregation

401
00:14:52,529 --> 00:14:54,535
just took his own life and that his

402
00:14:54,535 --> 00:14:56,795
family is at home right now

403
00:14:57,175 --> 00:15:00,134
grappling with all of the stuff that comes

404
00:15:00,134 --> 00:15:02,375
with that. All of the doubts, all of

405
00:15:02,375 --> 00:15:05,335
the fear, all of the anger, all of

406
00:15:05,335 --> 00:15:06,075
the sadness,

407
00:15:06,535 --> 00:15:08,490
all of that is going on. But we're

408
00:15:08,490 --> 00:15:10,970
sitting here in this meeting as fellow saints,

409
00:15:10,970 --> 00:15:12,429
and it was never mentioned.

410
00:15:13,049 --> 00:15:15,690
Nothing was said. And so I'm having this

411
00:15:15,690 --> 00:15:18,809
dissonance inside of me knowing that there's human

412
00:15:18,809 --> 00:15:21,774
tragedy and human suffering in our body. We

413
00:15:21,774 --> 00:15:23,934
are the body of Christ. It's happening in

414
00:15:23,934 --> 00:15:25,475
our body, and we're pretending

415
00:15:25,934 --> 00:15:27,235
and going through the motions,

416
00:15:27,695 --> 00:15:29,375
running the show the same way that we

417
00:15:29,375 --> 00:15:31,774
would every week. And I couldn't take it

418
00:15:31,774 --> 00:15:33,455
anymore. I didn't have anybody's I didn't have

419
00:15:33,455 --> 00:15:35,455
a calling. I was a nobody in the

420
00:15:35,455 --> 00:15:37,509
ward and just like everybody else, but I

421
00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:38,870
couldn't take it anymore. So in the middle

422
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:39,769
of the sacrament

423
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:41,830
with the passing of the bread and water,

424
00:15:41,830 --> 00:15:43,910
I stood and I walked out and I

425
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:45,830
walked home and I knocked on the door,

426
00:15:45,830 --> 00:15:47,750
even though I was fairly new and, and

427
00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:50,149
these folks didn't really know me. I just

428
00:15:50,149 --> 00:15:52,794
knocked on that door and said, I'm just

429
00:15:52,794 --> 00:15:54,495
gonna come. I'm just gonna be with you.

430
00:15:54,554 --> 00:15:57,195
Right? And blessings were given and prayers were

431
00:15:57,195 --> 00:16:00,495
shared and tears were all the things. Right?

432
00:16:00,634 --> 00:16:02,634
So I just share that as a context

433
00:16:02,634 --> 00:16:04,475
of the same exact thing we're talking about

434
00:16:04,475 --> 00:16:07,059
where a tragedy strikes and it's felt in

435
00:16:07,059 --> 00:16:08,440
the body of the community.

436
00:16:08,980 --> 00:16:10,919
And then what do we do with that

437
00:16:10,980 --> 00:16:13,700
when we're in what is a fairly scripted

438
00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:16,740
and performative experience, like our normal Sunday church

439
00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:17,240
services?

440
00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:19,875
Yeah. And I guess a part like a

441
00:16:19,875 --> 00:16:22,115
very normal experience as we perceive these things

442
00:16:22,115 --> 00:16:24,195
and then attempt to take action or do

443
00:16:24,195 --> 00:16:26,754
something is suddenly we realize there's a risk

444
00:16:26,754 --> 00:16:27,875
in this, right? What if I show up

445
00:16:27,875 --> 00:16:29,475
to the house and they're like, not there?

446
00:16:29,475 --> 00:16:30,995
Like, maybe I shouldn't even bother. Or what

447
00:16:30,995 --> 00:16:33,009
if I make it more uncomfortable? Or what

448
00:16:33,009 --> 00:16:34,449
if they don't want me there? Or or

449
00:16:34,449 --> 00:16:36,129
I was going through this experience going back

450
00:16:36,129 --> 00:16:37,889
to my story of, like, wow. You know,

451
00:16:37,889 --> 00:16:39,169
I don't know if I'm prepared to do

452
00:16:39,169 --> 00:16:40,610
this. I don't know if I can bring

453
00:16:40,610 --> 00:16:42,370
this up in Elder's Corner. Maybe we'll just

454
00:16:42,370 --> 00:16:44,804
go back to the conference talk and, you

455
00:16:44,804 --> 00:16:47,125
know, we'll mention it and make sure everybody

456
00:16:47,125 --> 00:16:49,044
knows to, you know, to to reach out

457
00:16:49,044 --> 00:16:51,365
to somebody, maybe a therapist they need. Right?

458
00:16:51,365 --> 00:16:53,044
And so there is this moment where you

459
00:16:53,044 --> 00:16:54,485
kinda sit in the risk of it or

460
00:16:54,485 --> 00:16:55,144
you're unsure

461
00:16:55,684 --> 00:16:57,490
if I could do this, you know? And

462
00:16:57,490 --> 00:16:59,490
that's where I kind of and, you know,

463
00:16:59,490 --> 00:17:01,250
I must admit, like, I've done a lot

464
00:17:01,250 --> 00:17:03,250
of public speaking, very comfortable in front of

465
00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:05,029
a crowd, very comfortable facilitating

466
00:17:05,330 --> 00:17:06,549
activities and discussion.

467
00:17:06,930 --> 00:17:09,330
And, you know, I'm I literally facilitate discussion

468
00:17:09,330 --> 00:17:11,444
for a living. Right? And so, I wasn't

469
00:17:11,444 --> 00:17:14,744
like totally, you know, afraid of it. However,

470
00:17:14,964 --> 00:17:16,724
I thought, what what resources could I get?

471
00:17:16,724 --> 00:17:19,045
So, and I, you know, most boards have

472
00:17:19,045 --> 00:17:20,724
at least one therapist in it. Right? So,

473
00:17:20,724 --> 00:17:22,724
I reached out to this individual who's a

474
00:17:22,724 --> 00:17:24,404
therapist and I just said, Hey, this is

475
00:17:24,404 --> 00:17:26,119
what I'm perceiving. I explained it to him,

476
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,359
and he's like, you're exactly right. I talked

477
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,039
to another therapist friend, not my ward, but

478
00:17:30,039 --> 00:17:32,599
he said, from the moment that tragedy happened,

479
00:17:32,599 --> 00:17:34,539
the rest of my days, all my sessions

480
00:17:34,919 --> 00:17:37,000
were about that one event. And I'm like,

481
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:37,980
okay. Like, something,

482
00:17:38,365 --> 00:17:40,444
obviously, you know, it's confirming to me of

483
00:17:40,444 --> 00:17:43,325
that perception. And so and it was interesting

484
00:17:43,325 --> 00:17:45,244
just how he said it's like, I've never

485
00:17:45,404 --> 00:17:47,005
I keep going back to, like, why is

486
00:17:47,005 --> 00:17:48,605
this impacting me so much? Right? And I

487
00:17:48,605 --> 00:17:50,204
kept hearing that from people I talked about.

488
00:17:50,204 --> 00:17:51,904
Why is this impacting me so much?

489
00:17:52,319 --> 00:17:55,440
So having that considering my resources, I thought,

490
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:56,880
okay, may you know, with his help, he

491
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,159
can be my wing man or I can

492
00:17:58,159 --> 00:18:00,720
be his, and maybe we can facilitate a

493
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,640
discussion. And I kept going back to this

494
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,159
question of why do we go to church?

495
00:18:04,159 --> 00:18:05,599
Like, yeah, we need to take the sacrament.

496
00:18:05,599 --> 00:18:07,434
Yes. We need to renew covenants. Yes. We

497
00:18:07,434 --> 00:18:10,575
need, like, you know, the instruction of doctrine.

498
00:18:10,875 --> 00:18:12,634
But a big part in all the handbooks

499
00:18:12,634 --> 00:18:15,515
is this community component and unity, and this

500
00:18:15,515 --> 00:18:16,414
is a great opportunity

501
00:18:17,035 --> 00:18:19,695
to really lean into that. Yeah. And

502
00:18:20,049 --> 00:18:21,570
before we dive in more to what you

503
00:18:21,570 --> 00:18:23,250
did, I wonder if we can bring the

504
00:18:23,250 --> 00:18:25,089
audience here since we have such a a

505
00:18:25,089 --> 00:18:25,990
great large

506
00:18:26,529 --> 00:18:28,690
audience with us today. I'm wondering if we

507
00:18:28,690 --> 00:18:30,390
can bring them along in the story.

508
00:18:30,769 --> 00:18:31,970
Wondering if you

509
00:18:32,695 --> 00:18:34,695
whether you had a called leadership position or

510
00:18:34,695 --> 00:18:36,394
not, if you were perceiving,

511
00:18:36,934 --> 00:18:39,174
not just for yourself, but perceiving for your

512
00:18:39,174 --> 00:18:41,355
community, if you were having thoughts about

513
00:18:41,654 --> 00:18:43,575
what does this mean for us as a

514
00:18:43,575 --> 00:18:44,875
community and how

515
00:18:45,319 --> 00:18:46,920
how do we respond to this and what

516
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,579
potential suffering or confusion or anger

517
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,940
or apathy might be being experienced

518
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,880
within our body as you were approaching your

519
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:56,779
Sunday services?

520
00:18:57,654 --> 00:18:59,974
Or maybe maybe you came with a sense

521
00:18:59,974 --> 00:19:03,174
of expectation or hope, like, I hope nobody

522
00:19:03,174 --> 00:19:04,954
talks about this, or

523
00:19:05,255 --> 00:19:07,335
I really hope this comes up, or something

524
00:19:07,335 --> 00:19:08,315
along those lines.

525
00:19:08,615 --> 00:19:10,714
If you can throw something into the chat,

526
00:19:11,019 --> 00:19:13,019
we'll bring some of that in here. Yeah.

527
00:19:13,019 --> 00:19:14,460
And feel free to use that hand raise

528
00:19:14,460 --> 00:19:16,480
button and I'll keep an eye on that.

529
00:19:16,619 --> 00:19:18,140
And there is, you know, Ricky brings us

530
00:19:18,140 --> 00:19:21,099
up this, this dynamic of it wasn't just

531
00:19:21,099 --> 00:19:22,720
like a murder, but it was a political

532
00:19:22,859 --> 00:19:23,359
assassination.

533
00:19:23,660 --> 00:19:25,599
Right? It was it's a, it was heavy

534
00:19:26,015 --> 00:19:27,934
in the politics scene. That's sort of the,

535
00:19:27,934 --> 00:19:29,775
the big red card we avoid, you know,

536
00:19:29,775 --> 00:19:31,375
in a church setting, we can't go there.

537
00:19:31,375 --> 00:19:33,215
Right? And there is sort of this fear

538
00:19:33,215 --> 00:19:34,755
of like, well, what if it turns

539
00:19:35,134 --> 00:19:37,615
political? Right? And we don't wanna try and

540
00:19:37,615 --> 00:19:40,029
navigate that in church meeting. But and that's

541
00:19:40,029 --> 00:19:41,630
interesting because we do, you know, you know,

542
00:19:41,630 --> 00:19:43,070
there's things that you're not allowed to talk

543
00:19:43,070 --> 00:19:44,769
about, which is politics and religion.

544
00:19:45,150 --> 00:19:47,630
Right? And when those two things combine, then

545
00:19:47,630 --> 00:19:49,950
it's like combustion. It's just like, oh, you

546
00:19:49,950 --> 00:19:51,789
know, this is gonna spin out of hand

547
00:19:51,789 --> 00:19:52,769
very quickly.

548
00:19:53,265 --> 00:19:55,585
Now part of intuiting the moment is also

549
00:19:55,585 --> 00:19:57,984
intuiting what you personally are ready to handle

550
00:19:57,984 --> 00:20:00,545
as a leader in a moment. Because I

551
00:20:00,545 --> 00:20:02,224
want you to think about an analogy for

552
00:20:02,224 --> 00:20:04,464
a quick second. When metal needs to be

553
00:20:04,464 --> 00:20:06,305
melted so first of all, say it this

554
00:20:06,305 --> 00:20:08,220
way. When metal needs to be reshaped,

555
00:20:08,599 --> 00:20:10,279
it has to first be melted or at

556
00:20:10,279 --> 00:20:12,359
least softened. The only way to do that

557
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,140
is for it to go into the fire.

558
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,359
Now the problem with putting metal into fire

559
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,519
is that it's going to get contaminated or

560
00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:20,679
lost into the ashes and the coal of

561
00:20:20,679 --> 00:20:22,734
the fire. So it has to have a

562
00:20:22,734 --> 00:20:23,234
container

563
00:20:23,775 --> 00:20:25,875
that allows it to be in the container

564
00:20:26,335 --> 00:20:28,255
and still go into the fire to be

565
00:20:28,255 --> 00:20:30,174
melted and purified so that it can be

566
00:20:30,174 --> 00:20:33,214
reshaped. Now that container is the crucible. We

567
00:20:33,214 --> 00:20:34,595
often talk about a crucible

568
00:20:35,059 --> 00:20:37,299
as though it's the fire itself. It's the

569
00:20:37,299 --> 00:20:39,460
heat itself, but it's not. The crucible is

570
00:20:39,460 --> 00:20:41,700
the container that allows the metal to go

571
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:43,779
into the fire and to be purified and

572
00:20:43,779 --> 00:20:45,720
reshaped. Now as a leader,

573
00:20:46,179 --> 00:20:48,579
what your role is in any of these

574
00:20:48,579 --> 00:20:51,434
similar situations that we're talking about is you

575
00:20:51,434 --> 00:20:53,534
have to create that holding container

576
00:20:53,835 --> 00:20:55,994
for the people where they can go into

577
00:20:55,994 --> 00:20:56,654
the fire.

578
00:20:57,034 --> 00:20:59,454
The temptation is to say, oh, it's hot.

579
00:20:59,755 --> 00:21:02,315
There's danger in that fire. So we do

580
00:21:02,315 --> 00:21:04,315
not want the people to go there. And

581
00:21:04,315 --> 00:21:04,815
then,

582
00:21:05,115 --> 00:21:07,259
as I think I and others often say,

583
00:21:07,259 --> 00:21:09,179
a crisis is a terrible thing to waste

584
00:21:09,179 --> 00:21:11,339
as a leader. You don't want the crisis.

585
00:21:11,339 --> 00:21:13,259
You don't want the tragedy. But when it

586
00:21:13,259 --> 00:21:16,380
comes, it brings the necessary heat for the

587
00:21:16,380 --> 00:21:18,779
refinement of the community. And it's a terrible

588
00:21:18,779 --> 00:21:21,044
thing to waste. So instead of running from

589
00:21:21,044 --> 00:21:23,285
the fire, what we as leaders do is

590
00:21:23,285 --> 00:21:24,904
we help create that container

591
00:21:25,605 --> 00:21:27,704
for us to go into that fire. Now

592
00:21:28,085 --> 00:21:30,744
what these moments reveal about your communities,

593
00:21:31,285 --> 00:21:33,125
whether it's your quorum or your relief society

594
00:21:33,125 --> 00:21:34,740
or your ward or your stake or your

595
00:21:34,740 --> 00:21:35,960
council or your family

596
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:37,320
or your neighborhood

597
00:21:37,779 --> 00:21:38,600
or your nation,

598
00:21:38,980 --> 00:21:41,640
what these kind of moments reveal is fractures.

599
00:21:42,340 --> 00:21:44,039
They reveal the fault lines.

600
00:21:44,340 --> 00:21:47,220
So we've gone on through times of peace

601
00:21:47,220 --> 00:21:49,160
convincing ourselves that we're united,

602
00:21:49,534 --> 00:21:50,355
that we're together.

603
00:21:50,734 --> 00:21:52,335
But the truth of the matter is as

604
00:21:52,335 --> 00:21:54,174
soon as these moments come, it reveals that

605
00:21:54,174 --> 00:21:56,335
we're not. And so that's why it feels

606
00:21:56,335 --> 00:21:58,734
dangerous to go into these sessions is because

607
00:21:58,734 --> 00:21:59,714
it will expose

608
00:22:00,095 --> 00:22:02,335
that we're not together, and it might actually

609
00:22:02,335 --> 00:22:03,634
break us further apart.

610
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,159
But the irony is is that only by

611
00:22:06,159 --> 00:22:07,700
going into the fire together

612
00:22:08,159 --> 00:22:09,539
can we heal

613
00:22:09,919 --> 00:22:12,720
and seal up those fractures that exist in

614
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,799
the community. You wanna talk about one heart

615
00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:17,035
and one mind. You don't get there unless

616
00:22:17,035 --> 00:22:18,255
you go through struggle

617
00:22:18,634 --> 00:22:21,375
and conflict and difficulty and crisis

618
00:22:21,755 --> 00:22:22,255
together,

619
00:22:22,555 --> 00:22:25,035
and you have to navigate that together. And

620
00:22:25,035 --> 00:22:26,795
so if the tragedy was in your ward

621
00:22:26,795 --> 00:22:28,394
or in your neighborhood or in your nation,

622
00:22:28,394 --> 00:22:31,049
but it affects your group, you need to

623
00:22:31,049 --> 00:22:33,049
go the leader needs to take people in

624
00:22:33,049 --> 00:22:35,049
there in a way that they can pass

625
00:22:35,049 --> 00:22:37,470
through it safe enough to not lose themselves,

626
00:22:37,769 --> 00:22:38,829
but hot enough

627
00:22:39,369 --> 00:22:40,750
to remake the community.

628
00:22:41,130 --> 00:22:43,345
Yeah. I think that's if there's anything you

629
00:22:43,345 --> 00:22:45,585
learn or perceive from this experience, even if

630
00:22:45,585 --> 00:22:46,644
it wasn't talked about,

631
00:22:46,944 --> 00:22:49,764
you know, why or why what was the

632
00:22:49,825 --> 00:22:51,424
the fear in that? Right? I didn't mention

633
00:22:51,424 --> 00:22:52,865
it here. I didn't I didn't really want

634
00:22:52,865 --> 00:22:55,125
it mentioned. We have some very strong opinions

635
00:22:55,309 --> 00:22:56,829
on either side of the political aisle, and

636
00:22:56,829 --> 00:22:58,349
our war does not have those kind of

637
00:22:58,349 --> 00:22:58,849
relationships

638
00:22:59,309 --> 00:23:01,069
to speak to that. Right? I think that's

639
00:23:01,069 --> 00:23:03,150
a fair statement. And and you're not alone

640
00:23:03,150 --> 00:23:05,630
in that perception. Right? That the typical Sunday

641
00:23:05,630 --> 00:23:07,390
where we just show up and smile and

642
00:23:07,390 --> 00:23:08,990
shake hands and talk about the law of

643
00:23:08,990 --> 00:23:10,774
the tithing and let's go to DNC, you

644
00:23:10,774 --> 00:23:13,734
know, whatever. Like, yeah, we can be decent

645
00:23:13,734 --> 00:23:15,414
people to one another. Right? But there's some

646
00:23:15,414 --> 00:23:17,174
of these areas we avoid, and that's where

647
00:23:17,174 --> 00:23:19,255
that's a good indicator. And I'm I'm self

648
00:23:19,255 --> 00:23:22,294
aware enough to recognize I'm in Utah County,

649
00:23:22,294 --> 00:23:24,794
the one of the most deepest red conservative

650
00:23:24,934 --> 00:23:27,599
counties in the nation. And so, yeah, was

651
00:23:27,599 --> 00:23:29,359
there less risk of me bringing this up

652
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,519
and us being at odds? Sure. I mean,

653
00:23:31,519 --> 00:23:33,440
I'm sure a DC Ward, it's gonna be

654
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,920
a different experience. However, there it's still worth

655
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,320
leaning into that in my opinion. So Yeah.

656
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:39,759
And I'm gonna I'm gonna bring up something

657
00:23:39,759 --> 00:23:41,695
else now too, Kurt, because what you just

658
00:23:41,695 --> 00:23:44,914
described was the idea that within your group,

659
00:23:44,975 --> 00:23:46,434
there might have been some

660
00:23:46,815 --> 00:23:47,315
unanimity,

661
00:23:47,855 --> 00:23:50,815
some conformity around political beliefs or things like

662
00:23:50,815 --> 00:23:53,555
that. And so it's really easy

663
00:23:54,095 --> 00:23:56,994
during times of tragedy or crisis like this,

664
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:59,130
what we do is we we fragment,

665
00:23:59,750 --> 00:24:00,809
but that fragmentation,

666
00:24:01,190 --> 00:24:03,769
once you fragment, once you're in your group,

667
00:24:03,910 --> 00:24:04,970
we now retreat

668
00:24:05,509 --> 00:24:08,250
into that smaller, more localized,

669
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:10,090
you know, more conformed

670
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:11,130
mindset.

671
00:24:11,845 --> 00:24:13,924
And so that retreating into that group is

672
00:24:13,924 --> 00:24:15,384
also part of the problem.

673
00:24:15,684 --> 00:24:18,244
We allow the tragedy to say, oh, well,

674
00:24:18,244 --> 00:24:20,404
that's their problem. At least we've got it

675
00:24:20,404 --> 00:24:21,704
figured out in our neighborhood.

676
00:24:22,244 --> 00:24:24,484
And instead, what that's doing is it's actually

677
00:24:24,644 --> 00:24:26,369
the fallings might not be within our group,

678
00:24:26,369 --> 00:24:28,470
but they're around our group. So it's actually

679
00:24:28,529 --> 00:24:30,309
pulling us further away

680
00:24:30,769 --> 00:24:33,089
from this bigger thing that we belong to.

681
00:24:33,089 --> 00:24:35,109
First of all, we belong to

682
00:24:35,490 --> 00:24:37,410
you know, you belong to the state. You

683
00:24:37,410 --> 00:24:38,630
belong to the religion.

684
00:24:39,034 --> 00:24:40,575
You belong to the nation,

685
00:24:40,954 --> 00:24:43,274
and you belong to the humanity, to the

686
00:24:43,274 --> 00:24:44,414
family of God.

687
00:24:44,714 --> 00:24:47,855
But as we retreat into what feels comfortable,

688
00:24:48,394 --> 00:24:49,835
and that could be at the quorum level

689
00:24:49,835 --> 00:24:51,515
or it could be at your family level

690
00:24:51,515 --> 00:24:52,974
around the kitchen table,

691
00:24:53,289 --> 00:24:55,289
It's very easy to start to other and

692
00:24:55,289 --> 00:24:56,970
to point outward and to say like, oh,

693
00:24:56,970 --> 00:24:59,390
yeah. Yeah. It's it's but at least we.

694
00:24:59,609 --> 00:25:02,089
Right? And so that's more work that needs

695
00:25:02,089 --> 00:25:03,789
to be done is if that's your group.

696
00:25:03,930 --> 00:25:05,450
You come and you say, hey. There are

697
00:25:05,450 --> 00:25:07,210
people out there. You might not be suffering

698
00:25:07,210 --> 00:25:09,055
from this, or you might be having one

699
00:25:09,055 --> 00:25:11,295
reaction to this, but there are other people

700
00:25:11,295 --> 00:25:12,595
out there who are probably

701
00:25:12,975 --> 00:25:14,595
who, in this case, definitely,

702
00:25:15,295 --> 00:25:18,095
are having an opposing reaction or a differing

703
00:25:18,095 --> 00:25:18,595
reaction

704
00:25:18,975 --> 00:25:19,715
that is

705
00:25:20,095 --> 00:25:21,955
just as legitimate as yours

706
00:25:22,330 --> 00:25:24,830
in terms of the humanity of the experience.

707
00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:27,070
I'm not talking about political ideology.

708
00:25:27,529 --> 00:25:30,090
Yeah. I'm talking about the humanity of what

709
00:25:30,090 --> 00:25:31,850
people are going through at a time like

710
00:25:31,850 --> 00:25:34,490
this. Yeah. And that humanity really is at

711
00:25:34,490 --> 00:25:36,345
the core. Like, how do we go to

712
00:25:36,345 --> 00:25:38,105
that point? We're not saying we're not going

713
00:25:38,105 --> 00:25:39,625
to a political point. We're going to a

714
00:25:39,625 --> 00:25:42,585
humanity point. Regardless of what happened, they impact

715
00:25:42,585 --> 00:25:44,904
people differently. Right? And this, obviously, this is

716
00:25:44,904 --> 00:25:46,204
a, like, a very

717
00:25:46,744 --> 00:25:47,244
specific

718
00:25:47,625 --> 00:25:48,125
heavy,

719
00:25:48,424 --> 00:25:51,309
like, you know, experience, right, that, that happened.

720
00:25:51,369 --> 00:25:53,210
But there could be even other things that

721
00:25:53,210 --> 00:25:55,930
maybe to me don't seem like a, you

722
00:25:55,930 --> 00:25:58,250
know, a catastrophe, but others are responding to

723
00:25:58,250 --> 00:25:59,309
it maybe more negatively.

724
00:25:59,690 --> 00:26:01,769
And so this is where that perception comes

725
00:26:01,769 --> 00:26:03,289
in place. Again, not that it always has

726
00:26:03,289 --> 00:26:04,955
to be a, you know, church, you know,

727
00:26:04,955 --> 00:26:07,674
second hour discussion or sacramenting topic. But again,

728
00:26:07,674 --> 00:26:09,835
you're always perceiving this where you're trying to

729
00:26:09,835 --> 00:26:12,154
say, where's the harm, where's the hurt, and

730
00:26:12,154 --> 00:26:14,154
how can we show up and step into

731
00:26:14,154 --> 00:26:16,154
that? So Yeah. And to that point, I

732
00:26:16,154 --> 00:26:16,654
mean,

733
00:26:17,130 --> 00:26:18,809
this so first of all, I didn't I

734
00:26:18,809 --> 00:26:21,049
had never even heard of Charlie Kirk before

735
00:26:21,049 --> 00:26:21,950
this last week.

736
00:26:22,329 --> 00:26:23,690
I've never heard of him, never heard of

737
00:26:23,690 --> 00:26:26,089
his movement, never heard of his style, never

738
00:26:26,089 --> 00:26:27,070
heard of his politics.

739
00:26:27,529 --> 00:26:29,289
It shows you a little bit about how

740
00:26:29,289 --> 00:26:31,130
I sort of keep myself out of a

741
00:26:31,130 --> 00:26:33,865
lot of the political stuff because I'm not

742
00:26:33,865 --> 00:26:35,705
on social media. That's what my kids have

743
00:26:35,705 --> 00:26:36,744
all told me. Well, if you were on

744
00:26:36,744 --> 00:26:37,484
social media,

745
00:26:37,865 --> 00:26:39,464
regardless of your politics, you would know who

746
00:26:39,464 --> 00:26:41,065
he is. Okay. Well, you know, that's fair

747
00:26:41,065 --> 00:26:42,525
enough. I'm not on social media.

748
00:26:42,904 --> 00:26:45,224
But this same sim or a similar experience

749
00:26:45,224 --> 00:26:48,799
happened in someone's home. Right? This, Democratic couple,

750
00:26:48,859 --> 00:26:50,000
I think it was Minnesota

751
00:26:50,299 --> 00:26:52,299
or Wisconsin, which again shows you I'm not

752
00:26:52,299 --> 00:26:55,359
that tapping, right? Yeah. Minnesota, I believe. Minnesota?

753
00:26:55,420 --> 00:26:58,619
Yeah. Okay. And so That's coming. Anyways That

754
00:26:58,619 --> 00:27:01,119
that tragedy may not have struck the conservative

755
00:27:01,259 --> 00:27:01,759
crowd

756
00:27:02,265 --> 00:27:04,744
because it wasn't their standard bearer, but that

757
00:27:04,744 --> 00:27:07,785
tragedy most likely struck the liberal crowd if

758
00:27:07,785 --> 00:27:08,525
they identified

759
00:27:08,904 --> 00:27:09,724
with those people.

760
00:27:10,025 --> 00:27:11,964
But it should strike all of us

761
00:27:12,345 --> 00:27:15,005
because of the humanity and the national implications

762
00:27:15,384 --> 00:27:16,859
of, well, what does it mean if you

763
00:27:16,859 --> 00:27:18,380
can express an idea and then someone walks

764
00:27:18,380 --> 00:27:19,980
in your house and shoots you for it?

765
00:27:19,980 --> 00:27:21,339
Or what does it mean if you express

766
00:27:21,339 --> 00:27:23,259
an idea and you stand in front of

767
00:27:23,259 --> 00:27:24,960
a crowd and someone shoots you for it?

768
00:27:25,180 --> 00:27:27,339
That's a different story than the story that

769
00:27:27,339 --> 00:27:28,700
we've all grown up and lived in. You

770
00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:30,539
know, that's a story that's lived by a

771
00:27:30,539 --> 00:27:32,375
lot of our fellow saints

772
00:27:32,674 --> 00:27:34,195
around the world. Right? I've got a guy

773
00:27:34,195 --> 00:27:36,035
in my stake here, and I'm gonna forget

774
00:27:36,035 --> 00:27:37,714
his home country, but it's somewhere in Latin

775
00:27:37,714 --> 00:27:38,214
America.

776
00:27:38,674 --> 00:27:39,894
And he was a bishop

777
00:27:40,195 --> 00:27:41,875
in his area, and he was a store

778
00:27:41,875 --> 00:27:44,755
owner and was successful store owner, and he

779
00:27:44,755 --> 00:27:47,680
was being followed home one night. And by

780
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,759
the time he got home, his house had

781
00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:51,059
been overtaken by

782
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:52,500
robbers, by thieves,

783
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:53,940
and they basically

784
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,580
took everything from the house at gunpoint

785
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,039
and said, if you ever turn us in,

786
00:27:59,039 --> 00:28:01,224
we'll kill you all. And he left that

787
00:28:01,224 --> 00:28:02,664
night, got his family on a plane and

788
00:28:02,664 --> 00:28:04,684
left and came to The United States. Right?

789
00:28:04,825 --> 00:28:05,325
So

790
00:28:05,625 --> 00:28:07,544
people around the world are living under a

791
00:28:07,544 --> 00:28:09,565
story like this. But for America,

792
00:28:09,944 --> 00:28:11,304
we don't know what it's like to live

793
00:28:11,304 --> 00:28:13,144
under the story. And just like nine eleven

794
00:28:13,144 --> 00:28:16,140
rocked our story, you know, twenty four years

795
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,599
ago, you know, these events are now rocking

796
00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:20,359
our story and we're saying, well, this is

797
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,619
not the place I thought I live regardless

798
00:28:22,679 --> 00:28:23,900
of my political ideology.

799
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,679
Yeah. And those of you, if there's questions

800
00:28:26,679 --> 00:28:29,025
that come up or thoughts, feel free to,

801
00:28:29,184 --> 00:28:31,345
to raise your hand or use the, the

802
00:28:31,345 --> 00:28:33,845
comment box because we'll we're happy to facilitate

803
00:28:33,904 --> 00:28:35,825
that. So the principles I'm picking up on,

804
00:28:35,825 --> 00:28:37,345
Dan, as we move through this is that,

805
00:28:37,345 --> 00:28:39,105
you know, really be aware of that perception.

806
00:28:39,105 --> 00:28:41,849
If you're perceiving something's off, like, again, we

807
00:28:41,849 --> 00:28:43,690
don't sort of, like, go whisper to the

808
00:28:43,690 --> 00:28:45,210
bishop or text them like, hey. You should

809
00:28:45,210 --> 00:28:46,829
do something about this. Right?

810
00:28:47,210 --> 00:28:49,069
Like, hopefully, we feel empowered

811
00:28:49,529 --> 00:28:51,130
to lean into those. You you told your

812
00:28:51,130 --> 00:28:53,049
story. I'm telling mine. Obviously, I'm more in

813
00:28:53,049 --> 00:28:53,630
a formal

814
00:28:54,125 --> 00:28:56,785
formal leadership role, but you wear those perceptions,

815
00:28:56,924 --> 00:28:59,424
recognize that there's gonna be that feels risky.

816
00:28:59,565 --> 00:29:02,445
It feels, uncertain. Right? And oftentimes, that's a

817
00:29:02,445 --> 00:29:04,525
good indicator of the spirit is when it's

818
00:29:04,525 --> 00:29:05,965
like, ah, that doesn't feel right, but I

819
00:29:05,965 --> 00:29:07,985
feel that prompting and that perception.

820
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,059
And then then lean in. Right. And so

821
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,640
let's go to Jeff. Do you have something

822
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,880
to share? Sure. Maybe while we're waiting for

823
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:15,380
Jeff

824
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,840
and see if he comes on. Yeah, go

825
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,440
ahead. I do think it would be great,

826
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,400
even though you recognize already your situation here

827
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:23,299
is your situation

828
00:29:23,825 --> 00:29:25,664
here in Utah County. I do think it

829
00:29:25,664 --> 00:29:26,565
would be really

830
00:29:26,944 --> 00:29:28,785
interesting for all of us to hear how

831
00:29:28,785 --> 00:29:31,525
you approached it because I think your approach

832
00:29:31,904 --> 00:29:33,744
was very unique in terms of what we

833
00:29:33,744 --> 00:29:35,924
typically would see in a Latter day Saint

834
00:29:36,144 --> 00:29:37,045
meeting setting.

835
00:29:37,424 --> 00:29:37,924
Yeah.

836
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,840
So, yeah, for as far as my approach

837
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:40,960
or what I did, so I just sent

838
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,820
out a a message in that, you know,

839
00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:44,019
I think it was

840
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:45,700
Friday or Saturday.

841
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,519
And I just said, hey. Just so you

842
00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:49,200
know, we're gonna do the elders quorum a

843
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,485
little bit differently on Sunday. I can maybe

844
00:29:51,725 --> 00:29:52,845
let me pull it up just so I

845
00:29:52,845 --> 00:29:54,684
have exactly what I said as I thought

846
00:29:54,684 --> 00:29:56,285
through there. Which while you're pulling that up,

847
00:29:56,285 --> 00:29:57,265
let's just note,

848
00:29:57,805 --> 00:30:00,125
Kurt is creating the crucible. Right? And he's

849
00:30:00,125 --> 00:30:02,225
managing the temperature of that experience.

850
00:30:02,845 --> 00:30:05,325
So just alone by giving them a heads

851
00:30:05,325 --> 00:30:07,899
up, you're already helping to regulate the temperature

852
00:30:07,899 --> 00:30:09,339
of those who are saying, I don't really

853
00:30:09,339 --> 00:30:11,099
want to talk about this. I'm not really

854
00:30:11,099 --> 00:30:12,700
sure where this is going to go. You're

855
00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:14,539
already letting them know we're not going to

856
00:30:14,539 --> 00:30:17,419
surprise anybody. Yeah. And probably gave them a

857
00:30:17,419 --> 00:30:19,019
little bit of a context of what that

858
00:30:19,019 --> 00:30:20,779
was going to be like. Yeah. Yeah. So

859
00:30:20,779 --> 00:30:24,345
I said, hey, gentlemen, FYI, Sunday, we are

860
00:30:24,345 --> 00:30:26,984
not going to focus on conference talks during

861
00:30:26,984 --> 00:30:29,144
elders quorum. Instead, I'd like to take some

862
00:30:29,144 --> 00:30:31,544
time to focus on some teachings of Christ

863
00:30:31,544 --> 00:30:33,244
and also create some space

864
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,799
to process the heaviness that is happening in

865
00:30:35,799 --> 00:30:37,179
our nation and community.

866
00:30:37,559 --> 00:30:39,740
Please make arrangements to be there to support

867
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,700
one another. I only do things by invitation,

868
00:30:42,759 --> 00:30:45,079
so please attend knowing you can participate as

869
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:47,384
little or as much as you'd like. If

870
00:30:47,384 --> 00:30:49,464
you are in a separate calling during that

871
00:30:49,464 --> 00:30:50,904
time and wish to be with us in

872
00:30:50,904 --> 00:30:52,585
elders quorum, please let me know and we

873
00:30:52,585 --> 00:30:53,804
can make arrangements.

874
00:30:54,585 --> 00:30:56,184
And so, yeah, I kind of prepped the

875
00:30:56,184 --> 00:30:57,625
the audience that that was the direction we're

876
00:30:57,625 --> 00:30:59,144
going. I don't wanna sneak up on anybody

877
00:30:59,144 --> 00:31:01,599
or suddenly make them feel uncomfortable. And we

878
00:31:01,599 --> 00:31:03,220
had definitely more than

879
00:31:03,519 --> 00:31:04,179
the typical

880
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:07,059
attendees there. There's probably five to 10 more

881
00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:07,619
men

882
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,480
in Elders Quorum. And so from there, I

883
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:11,759
just thought That is Kurt. Why do you

884
00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:14,000
think that is that you had more come

885
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,134
as a result of that message? Well, I

886
00:31:16,134 --> 00:31:18,694
just think that, you know, just perceiving that

887
00:31:18,694 --> 00:31:21,015
everybody was kinda carrying this around. And and

888
00:31:21,015 --> 00:31:23,335
also just the the culture that I feel

889
00:31:23,335 --> 00:31:25,255
like we've tried to develop in elders quorum,

890
00:31:25,255 --> 00:31:26,694
they knew it would be a safe place.

891
00:31:26,694 --> 00:31:29,115
Right? They've had experience of talking about maybe

892
00:31:29,429 --> 00:31:33,190
heavier things or difficult topics. And so that

893
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:35,609
safety was hopefully already established in our culture

894
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:37,750
and knowing that, okay. I'm I'm definitely not

895
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:40,149
gonna miss this one. Right? So Yeah. I

896
00:31:40,149 --> 00:31:42,309
think that there's a temptation to think like,

897
00:31:42,309 --> 00:31:43,694
oh, it was salacious, and so so they

898
00:31:43,694 --> 00:31:45,134
wanna come and they wanna see the, you

899
00:31:45,134 --> 00:31:47,054
know, they wanna see the boxing match come

900
00:31:47,054 --> 00:31:48,815
out. Right? Yeah. I think as a few

901
00:31:48,815 --> 00:31:50,654
of our viewers here have voiced on the

902
00:31:50,654 --> 00:31:52,815
chat, like, most people don't wanna be part

903
00:31:52,815 --> 00:31:54,414
of the boxing match. They don't even really

904
00:31:54,414 --> 00:31:56,654
wanna witness it either. Yeah. So I think

905
00:31:56,654 --> 00:31:59,029
that if people thought that it was gonna

906
00:31:59,029 --> 00:32:01,130
be addressed in a combative

907
00:32:01,830 --> 00:32:03,670
way or that it might even come out,

908
00:32:03,670 --> 00:32:05,109
and there's some people who might even have

909
00:32:05,109 --> 00:32:05,609
some

910
00:32:05,910 --> 00:32:08,490
anxiety that they're feeling their own past experiences

911
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:10,470
or, you know, things that they're feeling. They're

912
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:11,990
like, I just don't even wanna take the

913
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:14,204
risk of being there. They might not have

914
00:32:14,204 --> 00:32:16,444
even showed up at all on a Sunday

915
00:32:16,444 --> 00:32:17,644
like that and just said, you know, this

916
00:32:17,644 --> 00:32:19,005
is just a Sunday that I don't wanna

917
00:32:19,005 --> 00:32:19,744
be around

918
00:32:20,045 --> 00:32:20,865
these folks.

919
00:32:21,164 --> 00:32:23,565
Mhmm. I think it's important that you send

920
00:32:23,565 --> 00:32:25,825
this message out, you're regulating the temperature,

921
00:32:26,339 --> 00:32:28,740
and it's also important for everyone to realize

922
00:32:28,740 --> 00:32:29,880
that there was

923
00:32:30,339 --> 00:32:32,679
leadership culture building being done

924
00:32:32,980 --> 00:32:34,740
over a period of time. So, this is

925
00:32:34,740 --> 00:32:37,400
what I mean by proceeding from the moment.

926
00:32:37,779 --> 00:32:40,535
So, because you had laid groundwork, the moment

927
00:32:40,535 --> 00:32:42,695
meant something different for you than it might

928
00:32:42,695 --> 00:32:45,195
have otherwise, if you hadn't laid that groundwork.

929
00:32:45,575 --> 00:32:47,335
And so it's not that anybody could just

930
00:32:47,335 --> 00:32:49,494
jump into a meeting and do what you're

931
00:32:49,494 --> 00:32:51,730
about to explain that you did. A lot

932
00:32:51,730 --> 00:32:53,490
of that was the groundwork. And so what

933
00:32:53,490 --> 00:32:55,809
do leaders do during times of peace? And

934
00:32:55,809 --> 00:32:57,029
they lay a lot of groundwork

935
00:32:57,329 --> 00:32:59,250
for moments just like this. And then when

936
00:32:59,250 --> 00:33:02,309
the moments come, you're ready because the crucible

937
00:33:02,369 --> 00:33:04,369
has been being built and formed all along.

938
00:33:04,369 --> 00:33:06,694
It's like, okay, You've got the ship now.

939
00:33:06,835 --> 00:33:08,674
You've got the container. And now that the

940
00:33:08,674 --> 00:33:11,075
fire is firing, we can now go into

941
00:33:11,075 --> 00:33:13,394
it. Yeah. And putting this in the context

942
00:33:13,394 --> 00:33:16,295
of a nonformal leader, like, just consider

943
00:33:16,994 --> 00:33:19,079
how you're how you're doing that in the

944
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:21,000
the relationship you have with others in your

945
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,039
community. Right? Just those simple moments of stopping

946
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:26,279
by someone's home, simple moments of chatting in

947
00:33:26,279 --> 00:33:28,359
the hallway. Like, you're you're building this relationship

948
00:33:28,359 --> 00:33:30,119
so they know this is a safe person

949
00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:31,960
to talk with. When tragedy strikes, I can

950
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,625
reach out to this person just to kind

951
00:33:33,625 --> 00:33:35,784
of make it more universal that way. And

952
00:33:35,784 --> 00:33:37,865
the other thing, I think the component to

953
00:33:37,865 --> 00:33:39,144
the lot of people worry about is like,

954
00:33:39,144 --> 00:33:41,865
well, we need this as professional business. Like

955
00:33:41,865 --> 00:33:44,105
we what if I make this worse? What

956
00:33:44,105 --> 00:33:45,880
if I say the wrong thing? I should

957
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,799
get a team of therapists in here. And

958
00:33:47,799 --> 00:33:49,079
that's, you know, kind of where I went,

959
00:33:49,079 --> 00:33:51,960
where I yeah. I think obviously the therapy

960
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,759
and and, that industry knows a lot more

961
00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:57,240
about maybe how to facilitate talking about tragedy.

962
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,359
And that's why I did reach out to

963
00:33:58,359 --> 00:34:00,464
that therapist. However, he had something come up,

964
00:34:00,464 --> 00:34:02,785
a family event that he he, was not

965
00:34:02,785 --> 00:34:04,384
able to be there. So I was back

966
00:34:04,384 --> 00:34:06,625
alone. But my when I go back, especially

967
00:34:06,625 --> 00:34:08,945
to my interviews with, Stephen Shields, if you

968
00:34:08,945 --> 00:34:10,864
haven't listened to those, I highly recommend them.

969
00:34:10,864 --> 00:34:12,465
But he always talks about this concept of,

970
00:34:12,465 --> 00:34:14,590
like, what's the church leader's role? And he

971
00:34:14,590 --> 00:34:15,809
always says, your role

972
00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:18,750
is to drive the hope train. Right? You

973
00:34:18,750 --> 00:34:20,829
just bring as much hope into that meeting

974
00:34:20,829 --> 00:34:21,570
as possible.

975
00:34:21,869 --> 00:34:24,030
And then if they need additional, you know,

976
00:34:24,030 --> 00:34:24,530
professional,

977
00:34:25,085 --> 00:34:27,085
you know, services and things, yeah, we'll get

978
00:34:27,085 --> 00:34:28,684
there and we'll direct them to those paths.

979
00:34:28,684 --> 00:34:31,505
But there's still a vital role of that

980
00:34:31,724 --> 00:34:33,484
leader of driving the hope train. And so

981
00:34:33,484 --> 00:34:34,924
I knew in order to step into that

982
00:34:34,924 --> 00:34:36,525
room, I wanted to have discussion. I wanted

983
00:34:36,525 --> 00:34:38,204
to create a place where if people needed

984
00:34:38,204 --> 00:34:40,769
to decompress from the tension of the experience,

985
00:34:40,769 --> 00:34:43,190
they could do that. But I always knew

986
00:34:43,329 --> 00:34:44,769
that I was always gonna bring it back

987
00:34:44,769 --> 00:34:47,250
to a strong story of Jesus Christ, now

988
00:34:47,250 --> 00:34:49,329
how he showed up, how he healed in

989
00:34:49,329 --> 00:34:50,630
moments of tragedy.

990
00:34:51,090 --> 00:34:53,250
And so I started that meeting with just

991
00:34:53,555 --> 00:34:54,994
and you always have to warm up any

992
00:34:54,994 --> 00:34:57,474
setting. Right? And so we just talked about,

993
00:34:57,474 --> 00:34:59,575
and I got some of this content from

994
00:34:59,715 --> 00:35:01,795
the therapist of my work, but talking about

995
00:35:01,795 --> 00:35:04,755
just different emotions that you may experience. And

996
00:35:04,755 --> 00:35:06,275
I'm not and a lot of times we

997
00:35:06,275 --> 00:35:08,900
go to we go to secondary emotions. Right?

998
00:35:08,900 --> 00:35:09,799
I'm mad.

999
00:35:10,099 --> 00:35:13,139
I'm happy. I'm sad. Right? But why are

1000
00:35:13,139 --> 00:35:15,299
you sad? Oh, that's because I'm hurt or

1001
00:35:15,299 --> 00:35:17,699
that's because I'm in shock. Right? And so

1002
00:35:17,699 --> 00:35:19,539
I just create a a moment for the

1003
00:35:19,539 --> 00:35:20,839
elders to kinda just

1004
00:35:21,184 --> 00:35:23,105
process in their mind. Because here's the thing,

1005
00:35:23,105 --> 00:35:24,644
like, obviously the sacrament

1006
00:35:25,025 --> 00:35:27,425
and sacrament meetings are great place to process

1007
00:35:27,425 --> 00:35:28,945
at times, but I knew that the vast

1008
00:35:28,945 --> 00:35:30,465
majority of these men were sitting with their

1009
00:35:30,465 --> 00:35:33,680
young families, you know, coloring pictures or telling

1010
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,619
them to sit down or right. So oftentimes

1011
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,760
they don't get that chance to really decompress

1012
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:38,980
effectively in sacramenting.

1013
00:35:39,519 --> 00:35:41,360
So I wanted to just create five to

1014
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,039
ten minutes where we could do that. Right.

1015
00:35:43,039 --> 00:35:44,880
So I had them sit. I gave them

1016
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,085
note cards just right. I said, put one,

1017
00:35:47,085 --> 00:35:49,744
two, three emotions down that have been dominant

1018
00:35:50,284 --> 00:35:52,704
this last week since the tragedy happened. Right?

1019
00:35:53,085 --> 00:35:55,244
So that took place. And then I just

1020
00:35:55,244 --> 00:35:57,405
asked, would anybody be willing to speak to

1021
00:35:57,405 --> 00:35:59,244
that? What was that like? What'd you feel?

1022
00:35:59,244 --> 00:36:01,590
Right? And then it kind of it snowballs.

1023
00:36:01,650 --> 00:36:03,969
Right. One person raises their hand, talks about

1024
00:36:03,969 --> 00:36:06,130
it. Next person does. We had men that

1025
00:36:06,130 --> 00:36:08,449
were, you can see they were visibly angry,

1026
00:36:08,449 --> 00:36:10,210
right? Again, not anybody in the room, but

1027
00:36:10,210 --> 00:36:12,469
they just were in that stage of anger.

1028
00:36:13,644 --> 00:36:14,844
And by the time they're done with their

1029
00:36:14,844 --> 00:36:16,525
comment, you can see that it was a

1030
00:36:16,525 --> 00:36:18,924
little bit less angry. Right? One or two

1031
00:36:18,924 --> 00:36:21,085
kind of broke down in tears about what

1032
00:36:21,085 --> 00:36:23,404
was happening and that, you know, you could

1033
00:36:23,404 --> 00:36:24,304
feel the unity

1034
00:36:24,684 --> 00:36:26,385
build around those, those individuals.

1035
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,019
And then I went into

1036
00:36:28,559 --> 00:36:32,099
almost a story, a sermon about, Christ and

1037
00:36:32,319 --> 00:36:34,319
the Jairus daughter. Is that I always say

1038
00:36:34,319 --> 00:36:35,920
his name wrong. And the woman with,

1039
00:36:36,799 --> 00:36:39,679
you know, the blood disease and how that

1040
00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:43,175
was a pivotal moment, a moment of emergency.

1041
00:36:43,474 --> 00:36:45,954
This daughter's dying. We've gotta be there. And

1042
00:36:45,954 --> 00:36:48,195
just how patient Christ was and all of

1043
00:36:48,195 --> 00:36:51,394
that anyways. And so definitely sort of creating

1044
00:36:51,394 --> 00:36:52,135
that space

1045
00:36:52,515 --> 00:36:53,735
to have that conversation,

1046
00:36:54,309 --> 00:36:56,469
decompress, share what you're feeling. And it wasn't

1047
00:36:56,469 --> 00:36:58,389
that there was no coaching going on, like,

1048
00:36:58,389 --> 00:37:00,309
oh, well, maybe you should try this, or,

1049
00:37:00,309 --> 00:37:01,909
or have you thought about that? Or when

1050
00:37:01,909 --> 00:37:03,190
I feel that this way, this is what

1051
00:37:03,190 --> 00:37:04,710
I do. It was just like, we just

1052
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:07,210
wanna hear hear you. Right? And so,

1053
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:09,269
went into the story of, of Christ. And

1054
00:37:09,269 --> 00:37:11,635
then this is something we do every elders

1055
00:37:11,635 --> 00:37:13,875
quorum, which again, laid the foundation of this

1056
00:37:13,875 --> 00:37:16,114
cultural safety, is we always end in a

1057
00:37:16,114 --> 00:37:18,034
circle of trust. We have the men stand

1058
00:37:18,034 --> 00:37:19,795
up, we get in a big circle, there's

1059
00:37:19,795 --> 00:37:21,954
probably 35 to 40 men. And,

1060
00:37:22,610 --> 00:37:24,530
we ask if there's anything specific that we

1061
00:37:24,530 --> 00:37:26,050
can pray for those, those men. And it

1062
00:37:26,050 --> 00:37:28,050
was those individuals who made comments that were

1063
00:37:28,050 --> 00:37:31,090
more emotional. I just said, Hey, brother Joe,

1064
00:37:31,090 --> 00:37:31,590
like,

1065
00:37:31,890 --> 00:37:34,050
how can we pray for you? Right. And,

1066
00:37:34,369 --> 00:37:35,969
he'd already sort of leaned into that. And

1067
00:37:35,969 --> 00:37:38,985
he was much more open to asking for

1068
00:37:39,045 --> 00:37:41,204
support that way. You know, he asked someone

1069
00:37:41,204 --> 00:37:43,525
in the court to pray and and just,

1070
00:37:44,005 --> 00:37:46,005
so many individuals coming up to me after,

1071
00:37:46,005 --> 00:37:48,005
like, they said nothing in the whole meeting

1072
00:37:48,005 --> 00:37:50,485
said, I really needed this this week. Thank

1073
00:37:50,485 --> 00:37:52,359
you for doing that. Right? And again, I

1074
00:37:52,359 --> 00:37:54,539
recognize it could have gone sideways.

1075
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,280
There could have been argument. There could have

1076
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:57,960
been so many places gone wrong, but I

1077
00:37:58,039 --> 00:38:00,920
I'd rather that happen than pretend like, oh,

1078
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,359
let's just open up a conference so I

1079
00:38:02,359 --> 00:38:04,679
can pretend like nothing happened. Right? So anyways,

1080
00:38:04,679 --> 00:38:06,405
any thoughts come to mind, Dan? Yeah. Well,

1081
00:38:06,405 --> 00:38:08,164
why was it worth the risk to do

1082
00:38:08,164 --> 00:38:09,945
that? Like, you knew it could go sideways

1083
00:38:10,005 --> 00:38:12,085
and it could become something hard to control

1084
00:38:12,085 --> 00:38:13,925
and contain. Like, why was that worth the

1085
00:38:13,925 --> 00:38:16,164
risk to you? Oh, man. I mean, I

1086
00:38:16,164 --> 00:38:18,485
could feel healing happening in the room. Right?

1087
00:38:18,485 --> 00:38:20,324
Not that I was offering it or doing

1088
00:38:20,324 --> 00:38:22,809
it, but just inviting the savior into that

1089
00:38:22,809 --> 00:38:23,309
tragedy

1090
00:38:23,849 --> 00:38:26,489
rather than just looking for updates on this,

1091
00:38:26,489 --> 00:38:28,570
you know, on a phone or in social

1092
00:38:28,570 --> 00:38:31,769
media. And that's the the unity component. Right?

1093
00:38:31,769 --> 00:38:33,609
Like, this is the often asked question when

1094
00:38:33,609 --> 00:38:36,505
it comes to ward culture or quorum culture

1095
00:38:36,505 --> 00:38:38,505
or relief study culture. Like, what do we

1096
00:38:38,505 --> 00:38:40,824
gotta do to, you know, stimulate unity? We

1097
00:38:40,824 --> 00:38:42,505
we need to be more unified, and we

1098
00:38:42,505 --> 00:38:44,344
always go to, you know, let's have a

1099
00:38:44,344 --> 00:38:46,425
pizza party. We'll just get together. We'll get

1100
00:38:46,425 --> 00:38:47,864
to know each other, then three guys show

1101
00:38:47,864 --> 00:38:50,609
up. And it's gotta be every core meeting

1102
00:38:50,609 --> 00:38:51,109
experience,

1103
00:38:51,409 --> 00:38:53,589
right, where you are stimulating,

1104
00:38:53,969 --> 00:38:54,469
like,

1105
00:38:54,769 --> 00:38:55,269
authenticity,

1106
00:38:55,809 --> 00:38:56,309
vulnerability,

1107
00:38:56,849 --> 00:38:58,369
because it's that you know, I always go

1108
00:38:58,369 --> 00:39:00,289
back to the scripture. This is both said

1109
00:39:00,289 --> 00:39:01,889
in the book of Mormon and the Bible

1110
00:39:01,889 --> 00:39:03,109
of Christ

1111
00:39:03,474 --> 00:39:05,635
hung on a cross to draw men to

1112
00:39:05,635 --> 00:39:07,635
him, like, to draw all men to him.

1113
00:39:07,635 --> 00:39:09,795
Right? That it was the moment of the

1114
00:39:09,795 --> 00:39:10,775
peak of vulnerability

1115
00:39:11,474 --> 00:39:13,315
that drew people to him. So it is

1116
00:39:13,315 --> 00:39:15,554
in that practice of vulnerability where we can

1117
00:39:15,554 --> 00:39:17,014
draw people together,

1118
00:39:17,394 --> 00:39:19,920
and that just creates more strength. And to

1119
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,940
me, that is why we go to church.

1120
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,639
Well, so let's press that a little bit,

1121
00:39:24,639 --> 00:39:25,940
because I think a common

1122
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,239
when people hear that you're doing stuff like

1123
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,880
this in elders quorum, a common retort is,

1124
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,340
Hey, this isn't group therapy.

1125
00:39:33,184 --> 00:39:34,784
We're here to learn the gospel of Jesus

1126
00:39:34,784 --> 00:39:36,704
Christ. We're not here to, you know, cry

1127
00:39:36,704 --> 00:39:38,965
on each other's shoulders and sing Kumbaya together.

1128
00:39:39,425 --> 00:39:41,425
So how do you respond to that? Yeah,

1129
00:39:41,425 --> 00:39:43,425
absolutely. And it's not group therapy. Right. And

1130
00:39:43,425 --> 00:39:44,164
that's why

1131
00:39:44,465 --> 00:39:46,945
the focus, the pinnacle was the story of

1132
00:39:46,945 --> 00:39:49,539
Jesus. Like it was His healing that was

1133
00:39:49,539 --> 00:39:51,940
talked about. What is the redemption He offers

1134
00:39:51,940 --> 00:39:54,500
us? Right? And so, again, I just don't

1135
00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:55,000
know

1136
00:39:55,380 --> 00:39:57,059
why we go to church. Like, if we

1137
00:39:57,059 --> 00:39:58,579
go to church to learn things, why can't

1138
00:39:58,579 --> 00:40:00,500
you go on YouTube and learn things? If

1139
00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:01,400
we go to church

1140
00:40:01,780 --> 00:40:03,780
to participate in ordinances, great, that took ten

1141
00:40:03,780 --> 00:40:05,994
minutes. You know? So I just feel like

1142
00:40:05,994 --> 00:40:08,735
if we're so focused and structured on a

1143
00:40:08,795 --> 00:40:09,855
church of community,

1144
00:40:10,315 --> 00:40:11,675
there are purpose in that community. There should

1145
00:40:11,675 --> 00:40:12,894
be healing in that community.

1146
00:40:13,275 --> 00:40:15,054
And everybody felt

1147
00:40:15,515 --> 00:40:18,639
redeemed after that experience because it was a

1148
00:40:18,639 --> 00:40:20,900
community experience focused on Christ.

1149
00:40:21,199 --> 00:40:23,039
I'm trying to look up right now. I'm

1150
00:40:23,039 --> 00:40:23,940
going to the handbook

1151
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,260
and I'm using the new AI assistant.

1152
00:40:26,639 --> 00:40:27,460
Could be dangerous.

1153
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,539
There's some specific language

1154
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,164
around what the purpose of elders quorum is,

1155
00:40:32,164 --> 00:40:33,925
and it's actually the exact same language, not

1156
00:40:33,925 --> 00:40:35,844
the exact, but almost exact same language as

1157
00:40:35,844 --> 00:40:37,304
it is for the relief society.

1158
00:40:37,684 --> 00:40:39,844
Yeah. Okay. So it says the purpose of

1159
00:40:39,844 --> 00:40:42,184
the elders quorum is to strengthen faith,

1160
00:40:42,485 --> 00:40:45,224
build unity, and support families and homes.

1161
00:40:45,539 --> 00:40:47,780
That's the purpose, the stated purpose of the

1162
00:40:47,780 --> 00:40:50,679
elders quorum, is to strengthen faith, build unity,

1163
00:40:50,739 --> 00:40:53,300
and support families and homes. How is what

1164
00:40:53,300 --> 00:40:53,960
you did

1165
00:40:54,340 --> 00:40:55,480
fulfilling that purpose?

1166
00:40:55,860 --> 00:40:57,300
Well, I'd give of course, I hope it's

1167
00:40:57,300 --> 00:40:59,734
fulfilling that purpose, but, you know, I think

1168
00:40:59,795 --> 00:41:02,755
when you model something like that, you know,

1169
00:41:02,755 --> 00:41:04,855
going back to the strengthening homes,

1170
00:41:05,234 --> 00:41:07,795
that father hopefully can go home and do

1171
00:41:07,795 --> 00:41:11,074
something similar, right, and start a conversation and

1172
00:41:11,074 --> 00:41:13,154
ask for prayer and pray together and those

1173
00:41:13,154 --> 00:41:14,214
types of things. So

1174
00:41:14,559 --> 00:41:16,079
then the unity is just like I said,

1175
00:41:16,079 --> 00:41:19,279
like the a vulnerable experience unifies people. And

1176
00:41:19,279 --> 00:41:21,059
then what was the other one in there?

1177
00:41:21,279 --> 00:41:23,760
Strength and faith, build unity, support families and

1178
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,760
homes. And strength and faith. I mean, to

1179
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,679
me, I wanted to model this is in

1180
00:41:27,679 --> 00:41:30,585
this crucible experience, this is how we rely

1181
00:41:30,585 --> 00:41:33,244
on Jesus Christ. We're not just, like, spouting,

1182
00:41:33,465 --> 00:41:36,585
you know, spouting things, platitudes at church because

1183
00:41:36,585 --> 00:41:38,585
that's just what we say. Right? This is

1184
00:41:38,585 --> 00:41:40,905
actually what it looks like is we turn

1185
00:41:40,905 --> 00:41:43,179
to the story of Jesus and remind him

1186
00:41:43,179 --> 00:41:44,940
how he showed up for people there, that

1187
00:41:44,940 --> 00:41:46,780
he's willing to do that for us. And

1188
00:41:46,780 --> 00:41:48,860
is he? Right? And inviting them to to

1189
00:41:48,860 --> 00:41:50,940
lean into that. So, yeah, this comes to

1190
00:41:50,940 --> 00:41:52,940
mind. I think in a little analogy too

1191
00:41:52,940 --> 00:41:54,480
that goes along with that is

1192
00:41:54,780 --> 00:41:56,534
when we think of church, if you use

1193
00:41:56,534 --> 00:41:57,514
a sports analogy,

1194
00:41:57,815 --> 00:41:59,494
you have the practices and you have the

1195
00:41:59,494 --> 00:41:59,994
games.

1196
00:42:00,295 --> 00:42:02,214
And I think that we often think of

1197
00:42:02,214 --> 00:42:04,074
church as being like the practices.

1198
00:42:04,534 --> 00:42:06,534
Right? It's not the real game. We're gonna

1199
00:42:06,534 --> 00:42:08,054
step out of the real world. We're gonna

1200
00:42:08,054 --> 00:42:09,869
take a minute. We're gonna kind of think

1201
00:42:09,869 --> 00:42:11,949
through, get ourselves ready. We're gonna send you

1202
00:42:11,949 --> 00:42:14,109
guys back out into the real world. That's

1203
00:42:14,109 --> 00:42:16,690
one approach and it's valid in some ways.

1204
00:42:16,829 --> 00:42:18,670
But another approach is to say, church is

1205
00:42:18,670 --> 00:42:19,569
about living

1206
00:42:19,869 --> 00:42:21,170
the real thing together.

1207
00:42:21,565 --> 00:42:23,965
And are we living life together as we're

1208
00:42:23,965 --> 00:42:24,945
sitting in the pews?

1209
00:42:25,244 --> 00:42:27,405
Are we living life together as we're in

1210
00:42:27,405 --> 00:42:29,824
our Relief Society or Young Women's or

1211
00:42:30,125 --> 00:42:32,784
Priesthood Corps meetings? Are we living life together?

1212
00:42:32,925 --> 00:42:34,864
And I think that's what becomes so damaging

1213
00:42:34,925 --> 00:42:36,625
sometimes to the body

1214
00:42:37,059 --> 00:42:39,059
is when we show up and pretend, when

1215
00:42:39,059 --> 00:42:40,839
something is affecting the body

1216
00:42:41,139 --> 00:42:42,819
and we show up and pretend that it's

1217
00:42:42,819 --> 00:42:45,559
not because we're locked into the performance of

1218
00:42:45,779 --> 00:42:47,380
so and so had a lesson planned and

1219
00:42:47,380 --> 00:42:49,539
we don't wanna interrupt that lesson that they

1220
00:42:49,539 --> 00:42:51,744
prepared for. You know what I mean? And

1221
00:42:51,744 --> 00:42:54,224
so we get locked into that performance and

1222
00:42:54,224 --> 00:42:56,703
into the script, and we ignore what's really

1223
00:42:56,703 --> 00:42:59,182
happening within the body. We're no longer living

1224
00:42:59,182 --> 00:43:01,661
together. And so as a practice, we become

1225
00:43:01,661 --> 00:43:04,140
hypocritical. If you're going to sit in a

1226
00:43:04,140 --> 00:43:06,619
room and ignore the reality of what people

1227
00:43:06,619 --> 00:43:07,589
are experiencing,

1228
00:43:07,889 --> 00:43:10,210
it's now a hypocritical experience, what I call

1229
00:43:10,210 --> 00:43:11,429
a plastic experience.

1230
00:43:12,050 --> 00:43:14,210
And that can happen as a group going

1231
00:43:14,210 --> 00:43:16,210
through a shared tragedy, like the one that

1232
00:43:16,210 --> 00:43:18,309
we're talking about as a nation here,

1233
00:43:18,609 --> 00:43:20,849
but it can also happen if people are

1234
00:43:20,849 --> 00:43:21,349
suffering

1235
00:43:21,889 --> 00:43:22,389
individually.

1236
00:43:22,944 --> 00:43:24,704
Like, if they're showing up and they're having

1237
00:43:24,704 --> 00:43:27,684
one experience and it's not honored, named, validated,

1238
00:43:27,824 --> 00:43:28,324
expressed,

1239
00:43:28,864 --> 00:43:30,964
seen, heard, touched, all the things

1240
00:43:31,264 --> 00:43:33,424
in that setting, in other words, they're having

1241
00:43:33,424 --> 00:43:35,424
to show up and be fake in that

1242
00:43:35,424 --> 00:43:38,860
setting, They now have to what's called alienation.

1243
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:40,380
They have to alienate

1244
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,099
themselves. They're fragmenting internally.

1245
00:43:43,559 --> 00:43:45,480
They have to start to silence the parts

1246
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,480
of themselves that don't belong here in this

1247
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:47,980
space.

1248
00:43:48,295 --> 00:43:49,655
So now all of a sudden people are

1249
00:43:49,655 --> 00:43:51,974
showing up at church, and the travesty in

1250
00:43:51,974 --> 00:43:54,135
all of this is when our youth experience

1251
00:43:54,135 --> 00:43:56,534
this. When they show up to church and

1252
00:43:56,534 --> 00:43:59,034
they can't have their real lived experience

1253
00:43:59,735 --> 00:44:00,474
at church,

1254
00:44:00,890 --> 00:44:02,910
And that's where they learned to perform

1255
00:44:03,530 --> 00:44:05,769
a certain role, a certain expectation, a certain

1256
00:44:05,769 --> 00:44:07,949
language, a certain attitude at church

1257
00:44:08,410 --> 00:44:10,030
versus what the lived

1258
00:44:10,410 --> 00:44:13,289
experience is. And it's no wonder that over

1259
00:44:13,289 --> 00:44:15,449
time, those begin to separate to the point

1260
00:44:15,449 --> 00:44:18,065
where you either have to deny your own

1261
00:44:18,065 --> 00:44:18,964
lived experience

1262
00:44:19,585 --> 00:44:21,585
and bury that and tuck that deep down

1263
00:44:21,585 --> 00:44:23,184
inside of you. And that might be from

1264
00:44:23,184 --> 00:44:23,684
trauma

1265
00:44:24,065 --> 00:44:25,744
or just might even be like a call

1266
00:44:25,744 --> 00:44:26,964
that you feel inside

1267
00:44:27,264 --> 00:44:28,944
or a way that you see world through

1268
00:44:28,944 --> 00:44:29,924
your own experiences.

1269
00:44:30,449 --> 00:44:32,130
You have to tuck that down deep inside

1270
00:44:32,130 --> 00:44:34,070
so that you can continue to perform,

1271
00:44:34,609 --> 00:44:35,109
or

1272
00:44:35,489 --> 00:44:37,650
you have to shed the performance so that

1273
00:44:37,650 --> 00:44:39,809
you can lean into this, which generally means

1274
00:44:39,809 --> 00:44:41,969
leaving the church and saying, I can no

1275
00:44:41,969 --> 00:44:44,050
longer be here because I can't be what

1276
00:44:44,050 --> 00:44:46,150
I've become to myself. I can't be here.

1277
00:44:46,425 --> 00:44:48,925
Whereas what Jesus in the scriptures is repeatedly

1278
00:44:48,985 --> 00:44:51,164
saying is is bring those together.

1279
00:44:51,545 --> 00:44:53,965
That vulnerability that you talked about, that authenticity,

1280
00:44:54,105 --> 00:44:57,785
like, bring those together as leaders. And that's

1281
00:44:57,785 --> 00:44:59,945
a formal leader standing up leading the meeting,

1282
00:44:59,945 --> 00:45:02,440
or it's, hey. I'm sitting in this room,

1283
00:45:02,579 --> 00:45:04,420
and I can sense the inauthenticity of what

1284
00:45:04,420 --> 00:45:05,239
we're experiencing.

1285
00:45:05,859 --> 00:45:07,880
And I'm going to step into the breach.

1286
00:45:08,179 --> 00:45:09,400
I'm gonna be the person

1287
00:45:09,940 --> 00:45:12,920
that gives the real experience in this room

1288
00:45:13,139 --> 00:45:15,795
that nobody's asking for and that might

1289
00:45:16,094 --> 00:45:18,195
shock everybody, and I have no idea

1290
00:45:18,574 --> 00:45:20,434
if I'll be hurt by doing this.

1291
00:45:20,815 --> 00:45:22,275
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

1292
00:45:22,815 --> 00:45:24,414
And this is the you know, I guess

1293
00:45:24,414 --> 00:45:26,414
I'll go to this question here. Rick's asked,

1294
00:45:26,414 --> 00:45:28,175
how do you unify an entire ward who

1295
00:45:28,175 --> 00:45:30,030
is feeling disconnected or a stake? How do

1296
00:45:30,030 --> 00:45:31,410
you move the whole organization

1297
00:45:32,110 --> 00:45:33,869
and not just a quorum or class? I

1298
00:45:33,869 --> 00:45:35,469
have some thoughts, but what comes to what

1299
00:45:35,469 --> 00:45:37,550
comes to mind for you, Dan? Well, go

1300
00:45:37,550 --> 00:45:40,030
ahead. Jump in. Well, I I guess to

1301
00:45:40,030 --> 00:45:40,910
me, this is the

1302
00:45:41,550 --> 00:45:43,869
like, who says you have to change? Like,

1303
00:45:43,869 --> 00:45:46,414
if it, you know, we we enter different

1304
00:45:46,414 --> 00:45:48,594
contexts all the time where there's no unity.

1305
00:45:48,655 --> 00:45:50,974
Right? But this is where we can step

1306
00:45:50,974 --> 00:45:53,054
in and be that catalyst of that change.

1307
00:45:53,054 --> 00:45:55,775
Right? Where let's say, okay. This cute story,

1308
00:45:55,775 --> 00:45:58,210
Kurt. You're the eldest quorum president. You have

1309
00:45:58,210 --> 00:46:00,289
this experience or, you know, I can't do

1310
00:46:00,289 --> 00:46:01,890
that. I don't I don't get to determine

1311
00:46:01,890 --> 00:46:04,309
what happens in the second hour. Right? Well,

1312
00:46:04,369 --> 00:46:05,890
you could still you can invite people over

1313
00:46:05,890 --> 00:46:07,410
to your home. You could, you know, reach

1314
00:46:07,410 --> 00:46:08,930
out to people, like, you know, walk over

1315
00:46:08,930 --> 00:46:10,449
the home, knock on their house and and

1316
00:46:10,449 --> 00:46:12,195
say, are you feeling off like me? Right?

1317
00:46:12,195 --> 00:46:13,474
This is where I'm at. Where are you

1318
00:46:13,474 --> 00:46:15,474
at? Right? And and it's I wish it

1319
00:46:15,474 --> 00:46:17,155
was easier, had the five step plan, but

1320
00:46:17,155 --> 00:46:19,075
it's that going back to the principle of

1321
00:46:19,075 --> 00:46:21,095
it was looking for those perceptions

1322
00:46:21,795 --> 00:46:24,135
that you're feeling and leaning into that prayerfully

1323
00:46:24,195 --> 00:46:26,510
and saying, alright, I'm gonna act. Like, what

1324
00:46:26,510 --> 00:46:28,110
do I need to do? Right? And it

1325
00:46:28,110 --> 00:46:30,110
doesn't always go great. But this is, like,

1326
00:46:30,110 --> 00:46:30,849
the constant

1327
00:46:31,389 --> 00:46:32,369
struggle of

1328
00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:35,710
stimulating culture is that it's messy and it

1329
00:46:35,710 --> 00:46:38,135
doesn't make sense, but we can't sit in

1330
00:46:38,135 --> 00:46:39,494
the back, fold our arms and say, well,

1331
00:46:39,494 --> 00:46:41,175
if the Bishop just got on board, you

1332
00:46:41,175 --> 00:46:42,694
know, he could fix this or the elder

1333
00:46:42,694 --> 00:46:44,214
court president just did what, you know, Kurt

1334
00:46:44,214 --> 00:46:46,054
did, then that'd be great. Like, no, there's

1335
00:46:46,054 --> 00:46:47,734
a lot that we have way more power

1336
00:46:47,734 --> 00:46:49,655
than we think we we do. And I

1337
00:46:49,655 --> 00:46:51,679
would say, I don't know if it's necessarily

1338
00:46:51,679 --> 00:46:53,440
your job to shift that culture. You can

1339
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,279
be, as catalyst as much as you can,

1340
00:46:55,279 --> 00:46:57,679
but we can't grade ourselves on, you know,

1341
00:46:57,679 --> 00:46:59,699
well, you know, my ward's not that unified.

1342
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,760
Like, well, go find a group in, in

1343
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,074
your ward and unify that. Right. So I

1344
00:47:04,074 --> 00:47:06,394
it's, it's a tough question. Anybody else have

1345
00:47:06,394 --> 00:47:09,195
a thought question, want to speak to anything

1346
00:47:09,195 --> 00:47:11,375
you can disagree with us? Again, we're just

1347
00:47:11,434 --> 00:47:12,175
two guys,

1348
00:47:12,474 --> 00:47:12,875
but,

1349
00:47:14,394 --> 00:47:16,449
we're open to that. Steve, go ahead. We

1350
00:47:16,449 --> 00:47:18,289
don't hear you, Steve. I know there was

1351
00:47:18,289 --> 00:47:19,890
someone speaking when I first jumped on, so

1352
00:47:19,890 --> 00:47:21,650
it's not Yeah. I know it's very not

1353
00:47:21,650 --> 00:47:24,849
a settings issue. Yeah. Just to kinda speak

1354
00:47:24,849 --> 00:47:26,369
to what you just brought up there on

1355
00:47:26,369 --> 00:47:27,969
the topic of how do you unify a

1356
00:47:27,969 --> 00:47:29,730
whole ward or or stake, I guess what

1357
00:47:29,730 --> 00:47:31,570
I'm feeling in that question, which may or

1358
00:47:31,570 --> 00:47:33,464
may not be right, is you're not the

1359
00:47:33,464 --> 00:47:34,924
bishop or you're not the stake president.

1360
00:47:35,304 --> 00:47:37,625
Can you hear me now? Oh, yeah. Okay.

1361
00:47:37,625 --> 00:47:38,764
I'm just wondering

1362
00:47:39,304 --> 00:47:42,045
the church has has supplied us with circles,

1363
00:47:42,505 --> 00:47:43,404
wide e

1364
00:47:44,585 --> 00:47:46,664
and as I say that, let me or

1365
00:47:46,664 --> 00:47:48,050
in the proviso

1366
00:47:48,349 --> 00:47:49,410
that there's

1367
00:47:49,869 --> 00:47:51,250
100 and plus

1368
00:47:51,710 --> 00:47:54,349
elders, quorum members in our ward, and we've

1369
00:47:54,349 --> 00:47:56,449
got 30 that are signed up on circles.

1370
00:47:56,829 --> 00:47:57,329
Uh-huh.

1371
00:47:57,869 --> 00:47:59,730
Yeah. So answered the question.

1372
00:48:00,110 --> 00:48:02,474
Yeah. Exactly. I think the church made an

1373
00:48:02,474 --> 00:48:04,795
attempt at having some type of group chat,

1374
00:48:04,795 --> 00:48:07,514
but it hasn't overcome the other better options.

1375
00:48:07,514 --> 00:48:09,194
So that's why we use GroupMe. Not that

1376
00:48:09,194 --> 00:48:10,714
GroupMe is the best, but I've, you know,

1377
00:48:10,714 --> 00:48:11,454
some use

1378
00:48:12,074 --> 00:48:14,619
Slack or what's the other one? Anyways, but,

1379
00:48:14,619 --> 00:48:16,940
yeah, whatever gets the the job done or

1380
00:48:16,940 --> 00:48:18,380
some just do a big, you know, text

1381
00:48:18,380 --> 00:48:19,119
thread. So

1382
00:48:19,420 --> 00:48:20,780
Well, it just comes back down to the

1383
00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:21,920
principle of

1384
00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:24,239
reading the moment, reading the situation.

1385
00:48:24,539 --> 00:48:26,619
So if you're a leader who says, I

1386
00:48:26,619 --> 00:48:27,519
just do whatever

1387
00:48:36,204 --> 00:48:38,364
ward that's willing to use circles. Or if

1388
00:48:38,364 --> 00:48:39,724
you're a leader who says, I'm going to

1389
00:48:39,724 --> 00:48:41,244
go to where the people are, I'm going

1390
00:48:41,244 --> 00:48:42,765
to gather them in a way that they'll

1391
00:48:42,765 --> 00:48:43,265
gather,

1392
00:48:43,700 --> 00:48:45,300
then you're going to get a lot higher

1393
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:47,700
hit rate with your communication. So that's just

1394
00:48:47,700 --> 00:48:50,260
something everybody has to work out for themselves

1395
00:48:50,260 --> 00:48:52,180
of how they want to approach that. Back

1396
00:48:52,180 --> 00:48:55,059
on the other idea of, unifying a ward

1397
00:48:55,059 --> 00:48:56,820
or stake, and I can see maybe Ricky

1398
00:48:56,820 --> 00:48:59,515
is typing in, but assuming that you're not

1399
00:48:59,575 --> 00:49:01,815
a bishop or a stake president because you

1400
00:49:01,815 --> 00:49:04,394
have completely and wildly different levers

1401
00:49:04,934 --> 00:49:07,095
as a bishop, it looks like you were

1402
00:49:07,095 --> 00:49:09,255
at point, or as a stake president. When

1403
00:49:09,255 --> 00:49:11,480
you are the authorized institutional

1404
00:49:11,780 --> 00:49:12,280
leader,

1405
00:49:12,659 --> 00:49:14,739
you have levers that you can pull that

1406
00:49:14,739 --> 00:49:16,679
nobody else can pull, not even your counselors,

1407
00:49:17,140 --> 00:49:19,699
just because people orient you differently. It has

1408
00:49:19,699 --> 00:49:22,019
nothing really to do with your formal authority

1409
00:49:22,019 --> 00:49:23,880
per se. It's just the way you're perceived

1410
00:49:23,940 --> 00:49:24,760
in the community.

1411
00:49:25,244 --> 00:49:26,304
So, a bishop

1412
00:49:26,684 --> 00:49:28,844
can say something and get a very different

1413
00:49:28,844 --> 00:49:30,444
response than if someone else were to say

1414
00:49:30,444 --> 00:49:31,664
the exact same thing.

1415
00:49:32,045 --> 00:49:35,085
So, as someone who's not the bishop or

1416
00:49:35,085 --> 00:49:36,924
a stake president, who's trying to make change

1417
00:49:36,924 --> 00:49:39,085
in an organization that you don't have authority

1418
00:49:39,085 --> 00:49:39,585
over,

1419
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:40,900
you have to recognize

1420
00:49:41,599 --> 00:49:42,099
that

1421
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,460
authority and legitimacy are two different things.

1422
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,719
So anyone who holds authority ultimately has to

1423
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,440
earn legitimacy. They can lose legitimacy that comes

1424
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:54,425
with their office. But legitimacy is not granted

1425
00:49:54,425 --> 00:49:56,285
by the institution. Stake president

1426
00:49:56,664 --> 00:49:58,285
doesn't give the bishop legitimacy.

1427
00:49:58,905 --> 00:49:59,565
The legitimacy

1428
00:49:59,945 --> 00:50:00,445
comes

1429
00:50:00,985 --> 00:50:01,485
through

1430
00:50:01,945 --> 00:50:04,664
the relationship and the trust that you build

1431
00:50:04,664 --> 00:50:06,989
with the people. So Kurt was describing a

1432
00:50:06,989 --> 00:50:08,989
situation where he said, I I think given

1433
00:50:08,989 --> 00:50:10,610
the things that we've done in the past,

1434
00:50:11,070 --> 00:50:12,910
they assumed it was gonna be a safe

1435
00:50:12,910 --> 00:50:14,910
and controlled environment and that I was gonna

1436
00:50:14,910 --> 00:50:17,070
do well with this. That's because he earned

1437
00:50:17,070 --> 00:50:17,570
legitimacy

1438
00:50:17,949 --> 00:50:19,410
through his previous actions.

1439
00:50:19,815 --> 00:50:22,375
Legitimacy is earned though not necessarily through what

1440
00:50:22,375 --> 00:50:24,635
you do, but through how you're perceived

1441
00:50:24,934 --> 00:50:25,675
by the community.

1442
00:50:26,295 --> 00:50:28,474
So if you don't have legitimacy

1443
00:50:29,255 --> 00:50:32,214
in the ward as a spokesperson who can

1444
00:50:32,214 --> 00:50:34,135
speak for the community, I'm not saying speaking

1445
00:50:34,135 --> 00:50:36,579
for the ward as a institution. I'm saying

1446
00:50:36,579 --> 00:50:38,579
speaking for the ward as a community. If

1447
00:50:38,579 --> 00:50:39,880
you don't have that legitimacy,

1448
00:50:40,659 --> 00:50:43,780
you will approach the situation very differently. And

1449
00:50:43,780 --> 00:50:45,219
there's there's a whole lot to say here.

1450
00:50:45,219 --> 00:50:46,739
That's why I'm kinda stuttering over this. I

1451
00:50:46,739 --> 00:50:48,835
don't wanna get too deep. But it basically

1452
00:50:48,835 --> 00:50:50,914
comes down to this. Your work as a

1453
00:50:50,914 --> 00:50:51,414
leader

1454
00:50:51,715 --> 00:50:52,215
is

1455
00:50:52,675 --> 00:50:55,075
to disrupt the status quo. And that's what

1456
00:50:55,075 --> 00:50:57,795
leadership is. Leadership is creating power in the

1457
00:50:57,795 --> 00:50:58,295
moment

1458
00:50:58,755 --> 00:51:02,135
through transformative action. So you do the thing

1459
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:04,799
that needs to be done that nobody else

1460
00:51:04,799 --> 00:51:07,359
is willing to do. And through that action,

1461
00:51:07,359 --> 00:51:09,760
you will start to earn legitimacy from the

1462
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,000
people because they will say, oh, you're willing

1463
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,000
to bear a cost to do the right

1464
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:15,965
thing, to do the thing we all wish

1465
00:51:15,965 --> 00:51:17,324
we could do. And that's why it becomes

1466
00:51:17,324 --> 00:51:19,485
legitimate. We all wish this would happen. We

1467
00:51:19,485 --> 00:51:21,965
all wish this word was united. We all

1468
00:51:21,965 --> 00:51:23,644
wish this thing could be said. We all

1469
00:51:23,644 --> 00:51:25,885
wish blah blah blah. And you were willing

1470
00:51:25,885 --> 00:51:27,644
to do what I wasn't willing to do

1471
00:51:27,644 --> 00:51:29,920
because there was a cost involved. And so

1472
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,340
now I start to attach legitimacy to that.

1473
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,039
If there's no cost involved, I perceive you

1474
00:51:35,039 --> 00:51:38,800
as rogue, as self interested, as dangerous, as

1475
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:39,300
whatever.

1476
00:51:39,679 --> 00:51:42,079
But if there's cost involved, I now know,

1477
00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:43,920
dude, you're not doing this for yourself. You're

1478
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,164
doing this for us. You're doing this for

1479
00:51:46,164 --> 00:51:48,724
the we. And here's why there can never

1480
00:51:48,724 --> 00:51:50,505
be a how to. And this is

1481
00:51:50,804 --> 00:51:53,224
this is the problem with the leadership industry

1482
00:51:53,364 --> 00:51:56,484
as it exists today. It's so focused on

1483
00:51:56,484 --> 00:51:58,484
telling leaders how to show up and what

1484
00:51:58,484 --> 00:52:00,405
to do to solve all these problems. And

1485
00:52:00,405 --> 00:52:02,670
it's that right from the get go is

1486
00:52:02,670 --> 00:52:04,750
built on a lie. It cannot come down

1487
00:52:04,750 --> 00:52:06,269
to that. It always has to come down

1488
00:52:06,269 --> 00:52:07,969
to a leader in the moment,

1489
00:52:08,349 --> 00:52:09,250
reading the moment,

1490
00:52:09,550 --> 00:52:11,710
and that moment includes who you are, the

1491
00:52:11,710 --> 00:52:13,710
legitimacy you do or you don't hold, the

1492
00:52:13,710 --> 00:52:15,494
talents that you do and you don't have.

1493
00:52:15,575 --> 00:52:17,434
Kurt said he's good with public speaking.

1494
00:52:17,815 --> 00:52:19,575
If you're not good with public speaking, you're

1495
00:52:19,575 --> 00:52:21,115
gonna approach the situation

1496
00:52:21,655 --> 00:52:23,575
very differently. You might actually pull in somebody

1497
00:52:23,575 --> 00:52:25,095
else and say, I'd like you to lead

1498
00:52:25,095 --> 00:52:25,914
this conversation.

1499
00:52:26,454 --> 00:52:27,675
So you're constantly

1500
00:52:28,215 --> 00:52:30,295
looking towards the moment and all of the

1501
00:52:30,295 --> 00:52:31,469
factors, all of the materials, all of the

1502
00:52:32,750 --> 00:52:33,969
strengths and the weaknesses

1503
00:52:34,510 --> 00:52:36,289
and all that's built in

1504
00:52:36,590 --> 00:52:39,469
to that moment. And then your intuition confirmed

1505
00:52:39,469 --> 00:52:40,530
by the Holy Ghost

1506
00:52:40,829 --> 00:52:42,510
is gonna lead you to that one thing

1507
00:52:42,510 --> 00:52:44,750
that you can do. It will feel risky

1508
00:52:44,750 --> 00:52:46,530
because if it's not risky, it's not leadership.

1509
00:52:46,744 --> 00:52:48,985
You will feel risky, but the temperature won't

1510
00:52:48,985 --> 00:52:50,664
be so hot that it feels like it's

1511
00:52:50,664 --> 00:52:53,405
gonna destroy you if it goes wrong. Yeah.

1512
00:52:53,465 --> 00:52:55,704
And on that note, like, you know, when

1513
00:52:55,704 --> 00:52:57,804
it comes to, like, the institutional church, because

1514
00:52:57,864 --> 00:52:59,679
as I'm out and about or in different

1515
00:52:59,679 --> 00:53:01,599
meetings and more private settings, like, the most

1516
00:53:01,599 --> 00:53:02,340
common question

1517
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,360
or the most typical discussion I have with

1518
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,519
individuals who meet me and have, like, a

1519
00:53:07,519 --> 00:53:09,360
private moment with me, they they ask me

1520
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:10,179
a direct question.

1521
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,800
They know that again, I'm not in we're

1522
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,640
leading states as independent with the church, though

1523
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,614
we work with the church and have great

1524
00:53:16,614 --> 00:53:18,375
communication with the church. So they know I'm

1525
00:53:18,375 --> 00:53:20,394
kind of aware of things, maybe

1526
00:53:20,694 --> 00:53:23,174
more inside the church than the the average

1527
00:53:23,174 --> 00:53:24,855
member. And they always go to this place

1528
00:53:24,855 --> 00:53:27,335
of, like, okay. When is the institutional church

1529
00:53:27,335 --> 00:53:29,579
gonna do this more training? When are they

1530
00:53:29,579 --> 00:53:30,940
gonna release this? When are they gonna change

1531
00:53:30,940 --> 00:53:32,539
this program? When are they gonna fix that?

1532
00:53:32,539 --> 00:53:34,940
Right? And just what Dan said, that that

1533
00:53:34,940 --> 00:53:37,179
legitimacy, like or with that,

1534
00:53:37,819 --> 00:53:39,339
you know, we want the plan. When are

1535
00:53:39,339 --> 00:53:41,099
they gonna send the plan to us that

1536
00:53:41,099 --> 00:53:43,434
that we can execute? And the the gnarly

1537
00:53:43,434 --> 00:53:45,355
thing about leadership is that, like Dan said,

1538
00:53:45,355 --> 00:53:47,835
there's no plan. Like, the institutional church, it's

1539
00:53:47,835 --> 00:53:50,014
impossible for them to give a plan,

1540
00:53:50,394 --> 00:53:51,295
generally speaking,

1541
00:53:51,674 --> 00:53:54,155
other than just general policies and guidelines that

1542
00:53:54,155 --> 00:53:55,355
way, but they can't give you a plan

1543
00:53:55,355 --> 00:53:56,920
of how to stimulate culture or give you

1544
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:58,319
a plan of how to perceive things in

1545
00:53:58,319 --> 00:53:59,760
your word. That's where you have to feel

1546
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:00,500
that enabling

1547
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:01,460
power

1548
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:03,760
on yourself and saying, oh, that's because I'm

1549
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:05,679
the leader, and I have to, you know,

1550
00:54:05,679 --> 00:54:07,920
perceive these things and and take action. Am

1551
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,694
I inbounds there, Dan? Absolutely. And, you know,

1552
00:54:10,694 --> 00:54:12,454
just along those lines, the church did put

1553
00:54:12,454 --> 00:54:14,934
out a formal statement. Mhmm. You know? And

1554
00:54:14,934 --> 00:54:17,174
it's the same statement that we all would

1555
00:54:17,174 --> 00:54:18,855
have guessed that they would have written because

1556
00:54:18,855 --> 00:54:20,234
what else can you write

1557
00:54:20,534 --> 00:54:23,014
when you are the head of 18,000,000 people

1558
00:54:23,014 --> 00:54:25,760
across a 100 and whatever number of countries,

1559
00:54:26,059 --> 00:54:27,900
what else can you write other than we

1560
00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:29,599
condemn this act and

1561
00:54:30,059 --> 00:54:32,619
we sue for peace and we, you know,

1562
00:54:32,619 --> 00:54:34,079
ask etcetera, etcetera.

1563
00:54:34,460 --> 00:54:36,300
But here's the interesting thing, and I wish

1564
00:54:36,300 --> 00:54:37,739
I had the quote brought up right now,

1565
00:54:37,739 --> 00:54:40,775
but their statement ended with an appeal

1566
00:54:41,235 --> 00:54:42,054
to build

1567
00:54:42,514 --> 00:54:43,014
communities

1568
00:54:43,715 --> 00:54:45,335
of some kind, peaceful communities.

1569
00:54:45,715 --> 00:54:47,715
I can't remember what it was. And if

1570
00:54:47,715 --> 00:54:48,994
somebody has it, they can throw it in

1571
00:54:48,994 --> 00:54:51,414
the chat. But that is a license

1572
00:54:52,089 --> 00:54:54,409
to the real leaders among us. It's not

1573
00:54:54,409 --> 00:54:56,489
a license to those people who don't even

1574
00:54:56,489 --> 00:54:57,789
have the first concept

1575
00:54:58,170 --> 00:55:00,409
of what a Zion community is. And there

1576
00:55:00,409 --> 00:55:03,130
are many bishops and Relief Society presidents and

1577
00:55:03,130 --> 00:55:05,414
elders court presidents and stake presidents who don't

1578
00:55:05,414 --> 00:55:07,735
really have the first conception of what Zion

1579
00:55:07,735 --> 00:55:10,454
is, a people who are united in one

1580
00:55:10,454 --> 00:55:12,454
heart and one mind. But if you are

1581
00:55:12,454 --> 00:55:15,494
a Zion builder, because God has put in

1582
00:55:15,494 --> 00:55:16,235
your heart

1583
00:55:16,614 --> 00:55:18,579
a vision of what it means to have

1584
00:55:18,579 --> 00:55:20,659
a Zion family or a Zion board or

1585
00:55:20,659 --> 00:55:22,420
a Zion team at work or a Zion

1586
00:55:22,420 --> 00:55:22,920
classroom

1587
00:55:23,460 --> 00:55:25,859
at school or a Zion whatever that you're

1588
00:55:25,859 --> 00:55:28,280
part of. If God has put that vision

1589
00:55:28,739 --> 00:55:30,679
on your heart, then you are a Zion

1590
00:55:30,739 --> 00:55:33,535
builder. And so when you hear the prophet

1591
00:55:33,535 --> 00:55:35,875
of the Lord say, we call on you

1592
00:55:36,175 --> 00:55:36,675
to

1593
00:55:37,055 --> 00:55:39,215
bring forth communities, I wish I had the

1594
00:55:39,215 --> 00:55:40,735
exact quote. I was hoping somebody put it

1595
00:55:40,735 --> 00:55:41,394
in there.

1596
00:55:41,775 --> 00:55:43,375
Oh, here we go. Okay. We call upon

1597
00:55:43,375 --> 00:55:46,175
people everywhere to build communities of greater kindness

1598
00:55:46,175 --> 00:55:46,769
and love.

1599
00:55:47,250 --> 00:55:50,050
Zion people. This is the prophet without saying

1600
00:55:50,050 --> 00:55:51,890
the word Zion. He's saying, we're calling on

1601
00:55:51,890 --> 00:55:54,150
you to build Zion in your community.

1602
00:55:54,690 --> 00:55:56,449
And what I'm saying to you right now

1603
00:55:56,449 --> 00:55:56,949
is

1604
00:55:57,329 --> 00:55:59,429
Zion is always a leadership project,

1605
00:55:59,954 --> 00:56:02,035
and leadership is not something that can be

1606
00:56:02,035 --> 00:56:02,535
assigned.

1607
00:56:03,155 --> 00:56:03,655
Management

1608
00:56:04,275 --> 00:56:06,695
supervision can be assigned by the institution,

1609
00:56:07,075 --> 00:56:08,855
but leadership is a force

1610
00:56:09,235 --> 00:56:11,394
in the world that you exert through the

1611
00:56:11,394 --> 00:56:13,555
very process we just talked about, stepping into

1612
00:56:13,555 --> 00:56:15,910
the breach, doing the hard thing, bearing the

1613
00:56:15,910 --> 00:56:16,809
cost, shaping,

1614
00:56:17,269 --> 00:56:20,010
creating the crucibles. That's what leadership is.

1615
00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:22,309
And any one of us can do that.

1616
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:25,349
It's just we'll have different levers depending on

1617
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:27,829
who we are and the resources that are

1618
00:56:27,829 --> 00:56:29,369
available to us in the moment.

1619
00:56:29,755 --> 00:56:31,355
Yeah. Shout out to Carson. Thanks for getting

1620
00:56:31,355 --> 00:56:32,554
that for us. And I want to go

1621
00:56:32,554 --> 00:56:35,195
to another comment Carson said. And Carson says,

1622
00:56:35,514 --> 00:56:38,014
I think, there are two concerns to navigate

1623
00:56:38,155 --> 00:56:41,355
at church here. Managing strong emotions, pain, hurt,

1624
00:56:41,355 --> 00:56:43,755
anger, etcetera, in tragedy. Sounds like Kurt did

1625
00:56:43,755 --> 00:56:44,414
this beautifully.

1626
00:56:45,210 --> 00:56:48,670
Managing highly charged and contentious differences of political

1627
00:56:49,130 --> 00:56:50,269
opinion in tragedy.

1628
00:56:50,730 --> 00:56:51,710
This is a common

1629
00:56:52,170 --> 00:56:54,170
place that people go of like, well, what

1630
00:56:54,170 --> 00:56:54,670
about

1631
00:56:55,050 --> 00:56:57,929
the emotional person, the highly charged person, the

1632
00:56:57,929 --> 00:57:00,349
person that's responding way too much,

1633
00:57:00,704 --> 00:57:03,505
or the person that overshares. Right? And I

1634
00:57:03,505 --> 00:57:05,825
have to try and flip that around. Like,

1635
00:57:05,825 --> 00:57:06,885
if you're experiencing,

1636
00:57:07,905 --> 00:57:09,525
tension with somebody oversharing

1637
00:57:09,825 --> 00:57:12,545
something, it's often something going on in you,

1638
00:57:12,545 --> 00:57:14,625
not necessarily the person. Right? And I get

1639
00:57:14,625 --> 00:57:17,630
there's maybe outliers of I'm sure you've evolved

1640
00:57:17,630 --> 00:57:19,230
to have, have a story like that, but

1641
00:57:19,230 --> 00:57:21,250
nonetheless, more often than not

1642
00:57:21,630 --> 00:57:24,769
the managing strong emotions, that is the greatest

1643
00:57:24,829 --> 00:57:25,329
opportunity

1644
00:57:25,630 --> 00:57:27,090
for the community to signal

1645
00:57:27,390 --> 00:57:30,235
you're okay here. You're one of us. And

1646
00:57:30,235 --> 00:57:31,594
there were I mean, there were some strong

1647
00:57:31,594 --> 00:57:33,514
emotions like I mentioned. And the way I

1648
00:57:33,514 --> 00:57:36,795
responded was, hey, John. Like, we hear you,

1649
00:57:36,795 --> 00:57:39,034
man. We're here for you. Thank you for

1650
00:57:39,034 --> 00:57:41,855
sharing that. Thank you for being so willing

1651
00:57:42,090 --> 00:57:43,769
to talk. Or if I saw people nodding

1652
00:57:43,769 --> 00:57:45,769
along with their Sam, there's lots of heads

1653
00:57:45,769 --> 00:57:48,110
nodding in here when you're speaking. Thank you.

1654
00:57:48,250 --> 00:57:50,410
Well, like, we got you. Right? And that

1655
00:57:50,489 --> 00:57:52,590
again, that stimulates safety. That safety,

1656
00:57:52,890 --> 00:57:55,164
the more we stimulate that safety, I think

1657
00:57:55,164 --> 00:57:57,824
the emotions will stay more balanced or regulated

1658
00:57:57,885 --> 00:57:58,545
that way.

1659
00:57:58,844 --> 00:58:01,244
And just the highly charged and contentious differences.

1660
00:58:01,244 --> 00:58:03,324
I mean, this is, this is the question

1661
00:58:03,324 --> 00:58:04,844
of the century in my mind when it

1662
00:58:04,844 --> 00:58:06,684
comes to our churches. I know that I

1663
00:58:06,684 --> 00:58:08,525
think there's more official statements and this is

1664
00:58:08,525 --> 00:58:10,530
why I don't sit in red padded chairs,

1665
00:58:10,690 --> 00:58:13,489
during general conference. But we have got to

1666
00:58:13,489 --> 00:58:14,309
figure out

1667
00:58:14,610 --> 00:58:16,849
how to talk to one another in the

1668
00:58:16,849 --> 00:58:19,090
setting of church about these things. I know

1669
00:58:19,090 --> 00:58:20,690
we default to this place of, like, oh,

1670
00:58:20,690 --> 00:58:22,635
no politics here. We can't talk about it.

1671
00:58:22,795 --> 00:58:24,635
You know, if me and my wife had

1672
00:58:24,635 --> 00:58:26,394
an issue that we just couldn't talk about.

1673
00:58:26,394 --> 00:58:28,155
No, we can't talk about that. Like there's

1674
00:58:28,155 --> 00:58:30,474
a problem with our relationship. Right. We need

1675
00:58:30,474 --> 00:58:31,994
to get help. We need to do something.

1676
00:58:31,994 --> 00:58:33,275
And this is where the leaders in the

1677
00:58:33,275 --> 00:58:35,849
Zion Builders step up of saying, no, there

1678
00:58:35,849 --> 00:58:37,210
is a way to talk about this, and

1679
00:58:37,210 --> 00:58:38,809
we can talk about it and see the

1680
00:58:38,809 --> 00:58:40,569
humanity in it and connect. And that will

1681
00:58:40,569 --> 00:58:43,130
unify people. We will never reach the peak

1682
00:58:43,130 --> 00:58:45,130
of unity until we can do that. We

1683
00:58:45,130 --> 00:58:47,049
can never reach Zion until we we figure

1684
00:58:47,049 --> 00:58:48,250
out how to do that. And I I

1685
00:58:48,250 --> 00:58:50,454
get that it's a tough gig or a

1686
00:58:50,454 --> 00:58:52,375
tough road to hoe, and there's no five

1687
00:58:52,375 --> 00:58:54,214
step plan. Like Dan said, we have to

1688
00:58:54,214 --> 00:58:56,214
perceive these things and lean in even when

1689
00:58:56,214 --> 00:58:58,295
the risk is present. Yeah. I love that,

1690
00:58:58,295 --> 00:58:59,974
Kurt. That is so beautiful. And I think

1691
00:58:59,974 --> 00:59:01,574
that just a quick note. I think you

1692
00:59:01,574 --> 00:59:03,974
did lean into number two, even though Carson

1693
00:59:03,974 --> 00:59:05,835
was saying you did number one really well.

1694
00:59:06,069 --> 00:59:08,150
You may not have had an environment without

1695
00:59:08,309 --> 00:59:10,069
that would have been as politically charged as

1696
00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:12,069
a different Right. You know, locale. Like, we've

1697
00:59:12,069 --> 00:59:14,549
already covered that. Yeah. But you did set

1698
00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:16,309
the frame. So number one, you did set

1699
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:18,150
the frame. You said, we're gonna talk about

1700
00:59:18,150 --> 00:59:19,875
this in terms of the stories of Jesus

1701
00:59:20,195 --> 00:59:22,275
and how he approached these things. And this

1702
00:59:22,275 --> 00:59:24,835
is I mean, it's not a guarantee that

1703
00:59:24,835 --> 00:59:26,434
that's gonna bring people down, but that's a

1704
00:59:26,434 --> 00:59:27,715
one way of saying, like, this is what

1705
00:59:27,715 --> 00:59:28,855
we're here to talk about.

1706
00:59:29,155 --> 00:59:30,934
Now, Carson, I would just say,

1707
00:59:31,235 --> 00:59:33,394
and again, this is not a five step

1708
00:59:33,394 --> 00:59:35,655
plan, but let's just do a thought experiment.

1709
00:59:36,059 --> 00:59:38,460
Now, if I was in a ward where

1710
00:59:38,460 --> 00:59:40,000
I wanted to have this conversation

1711
00:59:40,300 --> 00:59:41,980
or in a family where I wanted to

1712
00:59:41,980 --> 00:59:42,960
have this conversation

1713
00:59:43,340 --> 00:59:44,960
and there was one or two people

1714
00:59:45,500 --> 00:59:48,059
that I knew were highly charged and highly

1715
00:59:48,059 --> 00:59:50,125
likely to say something that would offend other

1716
00:59:50,125 --> 00:59:51,825
people and shut down the conversation.

1717
00:59:52,204 --> 00:59:53,965
They may not argue back. They may not

1718
00:59:53,965 --> 00:59:55,885
be like getting ready to go to blows,

1719
00:59:55,885 --> 00:59:58,684
but it may like stifle what we're trying

1720
00:59:58,684 --> 01:00:00,684
to do here, eliminate that safe space that

1721
01:00:00,684 --> 01:00:02,045
we need for the number one on your

1722
01:00:02,045 --> 01:00:03,184
list, the strong emotions.

1723
01:00:03,659 --> 01:00:05,739
I would go to that person first. And

1724
01:00:05,739 --> 01:00:07,260
I would say, here's what's gonna happen in

1725
01:00:07,260 --> 01:00:09,179
this meeting today. And I would just speak

1726
01:00:09,179 --> 01:00:11,519
the truth to them. You have a tendency

1727
01:00:12,139 --> 01:00:15,819
to speak in highly charged, highly political ways.

1728
01:00:15,819 --> 01:00:17,339
And I know you think you're right. And

1729
01:00:17,339 --> 01:00:18,859
I know you think that God has asked

1730
01:00:18,859 --> 01:00:21,045
you to convince every single one of us

1731
01:00:21,045 --> 01:00:22,565
to see the world the same way that

1732
01:00:22,565 --> 01:00:24,644
you see it, but that's not what we're

1733
01:00:24,644 --> 01:00:26,644
coming here to do. So I wanna have

1734
01:00:26,644 --> 01:00:28,244
a conversation with you, first of all, to

1735
01:00:28,244 --> 01:00:29,844
help you understand what we're coming here to

1736
01:00:29,844 --> 01:00:31,864
do and to ask you to support that.

1737
01:00:32,164 --> 01:00:33,704
Now I want you to know

1738
01:00:34,119 --> 01:00:36,359
that if you cross the line, I'm going

1739
01:00:36,359 --> 01:00:37,639
to call you out in front of the

1740
01:00:37,639 --> 01:00:40,519
group. And I'm gonna say, you're crossing a

1741
01:00:40,519 --> 01:00:42,679
line. I want you to know if you

1742
01:00:42,679 --> 01:00:44,519
cross it a second time, I'm gonna ask

1743
01:00:44,519 --> 01:00:46,280
you to leave the room. I want you

1744
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,059
to know if you won't leave the room,

1745
01:00:48,105 --> 01:00:50,525
I'm gonna end elders quorum on the spot,

1746
01:00:50,585 --> 01:00:52,664
and we're all gonna leave the room. Now

1747
01:00:52,664 --> 01:00:54,585
you do that in private because it gives

1748
01:00:54,585 --> 01:00:56,824
them a chance to now prepare themselves and

1749
01:00:56,824 --> 01:00:59,065
to think through those things and to come

1750
01:00:59,065 --> 01:01:01,170
in in the right mindset. But also you

1751
01:01:01,170 --> 01:01:02,389
you put them on notice.

1752
01:01:02,769 --> 01:01:03,909
They won't be surprised

1753
01:01:04,289 --> 01:01:05,909
if you do that in the meeting.

1754
01:01:06,289 --> 01:01:07,589
And so

1755
01:01:07,969 --> 01:01:10,550
now why would you even take that chance?

1756
01:01:10,849 --> 01:01:12,929
Right? If you know that's a possibility in

1757
01:01:12,929 --> 01:01:14,449
your quorum, why would you even take that

1758
01:01:14,449 --> 01:01:16,454
chance? For the very reason Curt just laid

1759
01:01:16,454 --> 01:01:19,335
out. Because we cannot be one body as

1760
01:01:19,335 --> 01:01:22,154
long as we have these fractures among us.

1761
01:01:22,295 --> 01:01:25,355
And tragedy is the only way to

1762
01:01:25,734 --> 01:01:26,234
forge

1763
01:01:26,614 --> 01:01:28,554
these cracks back together again.

1764
01:01:28,989 --> 01:01:31,550
It's like you were mentioning Kurt this before,

1765
01:01:31,550 --> 01:01:33,230
but in the business setting, you know, they

1766
01:01:33,230 --> 01:01:35,550
often do team building exercises. We're gonna go

1767
01:01:35,550 --> 01:01:36,989
to an escape room. We're gonna go do

1768
01:01:36,989 --> 01:01:38,510
a high ropes course, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1769
01:01:38,510 --> 01:01:41,309
We're gonna build the team that does almost

1770
01:01:41,309 --> 01:01:44,714
absolutely nothing for building a cohesive and unified

1771
01:01:44,714 --> 01:01:47,675
team because the paths and the culture and

1772
01:01:47,675 --> 01:01:48,494
the expectations

1773
01:01:48,875 --> 01:01:50,714
and the dependencies and the trust of that

1774
01:01:50,714 --> 01:01:52,335
team is built

1775
01:01:52,635 --> 01:01:53,135
through

1776
01:01:53,594 --> 01:01:54,894
the difficult times.

1777
01:01:55,250 --> 01:01:57,409
And it's only in the difficult times that

1778
01:01:57,409 --> 01:01:59,429
those can be rewired and reworked.

1779
01:01:59,889 --> 01:02:01,730
So as a community, you have or as

1780
01:02:01,730 --> 01:02:03,089
a leader, you have to be willing to

1781
01:02:03,089 --> 01:02:05,730
say, it's worth going into this. I'm gonna

1782
01:02:05,730 --> 01:02:07,089
do all that I can to build the

1783
01:02:07,089 --> 01:02:08,789
crucible, to manage the temperature,

1784
01:02:09,355 --> 01:02:11,835
but I might lose control of this. If

1785
01:02:11,835 --> 01:02:14,394
that risk isn't there, it's not disruptive enough

1786
01:02:14,394 --> 01:02:16,474
to actually do any real work in terms

1787
01:02:16,474 --> 01:02:17,614
of community building.

1788
01:02:17,914 --> 01:02:20,155
So I might lose control of this. Someone

1789
01:02:20,155 --> 01:02:22,474
might say something that offends somebody else. That

1790
01:02:22,474 --> 01:02:23,614
is a real possibility.

1791
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:25,800
So do all that you can think of

1792
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:26,700
as you're proceeding

1793
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,160
to manage that, build the crucible, bring the

1794
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,480
temperature down, all of those things, but then

1795
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:33,500
also just know that that's not necessarily

1796
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:34,300
failure

1797
01:02:34,599 --> 01:02:37,454
because you've now just created another opportunity to

1798
01:02:37,454 --> 01:02:39,535
step into that breach. Okay? So say it

1799
01:02:39,535 --> 01:02:41,375
does blow up on you. Now you have

1800
01:02:41,375 --> 01:02:43,535
a chance to go have conversations with so

1801
01:02:43,535 --> 01:02:45,775
and so. You have conversations with subs to

1802
01:02:45,775 --> 01:02:47,775
come back the next time. Right? You've now

1803
01:02:47,775 --> 01:02:48,275
created

1804
01:02:48,815 --> 01:02:50,894
a real lived experience in which your group

1805
01:02:50,894 --> 01:02:52,414
is coming together. And then last thing I'll

1806
01:02:52,414 --> 01:02:54,230
say on this, this, Kurt, is if you

1807
01:02:54,230 --> 01:02:54,969
think about

1808
01:02:55,429 --> 01:02:56,570
the prophecies

1809
01:02:56,949 --> 01:02:59,769
about the contention that will dominate our world

1810
01:03:00,070 --> 01:03:02,170
coming into the coming of Jesus Christ,

1811
01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:04,789
if we cannot learn how to talk about

1812
01:03:04,789 --> 01:03:07,289
these things together, regardless of our political

1813
01:03:07,670 --> 01:03:08,170
ideologies,

1814
01:03:09,005 --> 01:03:11,085
we are not creating Zion and we are

1815
01:03:11,085 --> 01:03:11,824
not prepared

1816
01:03:12,204 --> 01:03:15,164
to exist and survive, let alone thrive as

1817
01:03:15,164 --> 01:03:15,664
communities

1818
01:03:15,965 --> 01:03:17,985
in that world that has been prophesied

1819
01:03:18,445 --> 01:03:21,005
is upon us and will continue to deepen

1820
01:03:21,005 --> 01:03:22,144
in terms of the contention.

1821
01:03:22,700 --> 01:03:24,220
Yeah. And as you were speaking there, I'm

1822
01:03:24,220 --> 01:03:25,980
just thinking like there's a lot of leaders,

1823
01:03:25,980 --> 01:03:27,340
a lot of wards who try and keep

1824
01:03:27,340 --> 01:03:29,500
that beach ball under the surface of the

1825
01:03:29,500 --> 01:03:31,260
water as long as they can, and you

1826
01:03:31,260 --> 01:03:33,680
can keep pushing it down, holding it there.

1827
01:03:33,820 --> 01:03:36,160
But the more tragedy, the more more mortality

1828
01:03:36,619 --> 01:03:37,440
puts pressure

1829
01:03:37,744 --> 01:03:39,505
on that ball, it's gonna have to come

1830
01:03:39,505 --> 01:03:41,105
up and you don't know which direction it's

1831
01:03:41,105 --> 01:03:43,105
going. So the the more of these opportunities

1832
01:03:43,105 --> 01:03:45,585
you have to kinda release that valve a

1833
01:03:45,585 --> 01:03:47,985
little bit and unifying people, then you build

1834
01:03:47,985 --> 01:03:50,940
strength that you can handle anything. Right? And

1835
01:03:51,239 --> 01:03:53,320
that's that's Zion. You know, I appreciate, you

1836
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,880
know, Carson's candidness here is, like, I'm concerned

1837
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,039
about the minority of the different opinions feeling

1838
01:03:58,039 --> 01:04:00,280
like they don't belong. The two people in

1839
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,954
Kurt's class who had different than the majority,

1840
01:04:03,014 --> 01:04:05,094
they weren't nodding along. They went home wondering

1841
01:04:05,094 --> 01:04:06,775
if they should go to church again. Did

1842
01:04:06,775 --> 01:04:08,934
that happen? Maybe. I don't know. Right? But

1843
01:04:09,094 --> 01:04:11,094
know somebody in your quorum. Yeah. Yeah. It

1844
01:04:11,094 --> 01:04:11,594
is.

1845
01:04:12,054 --> 01:04:14,070
Hey. It's Carson. He's in my quorum. No.

1846
01:04:14,309 --> 01:04:16,489
But the point being, we weren't, like, pushing,

1847
01:04:16,869 --> 01:04:19,030
like, oh, we're all angry, so let's all

1848
01:04:19,030 --> 01:04:20,869
be angry. Right? But what we were doing

1849
01:04:20,869 --> 01:04:21,690
is witnessing

1850
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:23,449
the hurt in the room.

1851
01:04:23,750 --> 01:04:26,390
And so most likely when that person feels

1852
01:04:26,390 --> 01:04:28,694
hurt at some point, they can say, well,

1853
01:04:28,694 --> 01:04:30,454
that can be witnessed here. Right? I'm not

1854
01:04:30,454 --> 01:04:32,474
saying I nailed it. I'm not saying I

1855
01:04:32,694 --> 01:04:34,554
pitched a perfect game by any means,

1856
01:04:34,934 --> 01:04:37,494
but this effort is worth the effort rather

1857
01:04:37,494 --> 01:04:40,699
than everybody just, you know, telling mission stories

1858
01:04:40,699 --> 01:04:42,780
as we talk about conference talks. And then

1859
01:04:42,780 --> 01:04:44,539
we go home and wonder why we even

1860
01:04:44,539 --> 01:04:45,679
hang out with those people.

1861
01:04:46,699 --> 01:04:47,900
Yeah. And I think if that was a

1862
01:04:47,900 --> 01:04:49,500
real concern that you had, Kurt, you could

1863
01:04:49,500 --> 01:04:52,239
follow-up with a message to the group me,

1864
01:04:52,325 --> 01:04:54,325
and you could say, I recognize that some

1865
01:04:54,325 --> 01:04:55,465
of you might not have

1866
01:04:55,765 --> 01:04:57,525
experienced that the same way that I did,

1867
01:04:57,525 --> 01:04:59,545
and it might have been hard for you.

1868
01:04:59,765 --> 01:05:01,525
And so I would like you to I

1869
01:05:01,525 --> 01:05:03,045
would like to invite you to please reach

1870
01:05:03,045 --> 01:05:05,610
out to me and share with me if

1871
01:05:05,610 --> 01:05:08,410
that experience was different for you than what

1872
01:05:08,410 --> 01:05:09,710
I might've thought it was.

1873
01:05:10,090 --> 01:05:11,530
And again, you don't treat it like a

1874
01:05:11,530 --> 01:05:12,890
one and done. You treat it like this

1875
01:05:12,890 --> 01:05:14,970
is a journey that we're on together. And

1876
01:05:14,970 --> 01:05:17,450
the more that I can understand you, and

1877
01:05:17,450 --> 01:05:19,210
the more you can understand me, the more

1878
01:05:19,210 --> 01:05:21,204
we're going to find where we are human

1879
01:05:21,204 --> 01:05:23,045
together, and that will become that's the thing

1880
01:05:23,045 --> 01:05:24,344
about Zion folks.

1881
01:05:24,804 --> 01:05:27,364
Ideology and even doctrine is not the basis

1882
01:05:27,364 --> 01:05:28,505
of a Zion community.

1883
01:05:28,885 --> 01:05:31,445
It is our shared togetherness as children of

1884
01:05:31,445 --> 01:05:34,150
God. When you base a community off of

1885
01:05:34,150 --> 01:05:36,309
our shared identity and our shared nature as

1886
01:05:36,309 --> 01:05:38,410
children of God, Zion flourishes.

1887
01:05:38,949 --> 01:05:40,869
And we have to strip back. I know

1888
01:05:40,869 --> 01:05:43,269
it's hard to say in this setting, but

1889
01:05:43,269 --> 01:05:45,210
we even have to strip back the religious

1890
01:05:45,269 --> 01:05:45,769
ideology.

1891
01:05:46,454 --> 01:05:49,175
Jesus met people where they were. He created

1892
01:05:49,175 --> 01:05:50,715
Zion with them in a moment,

1893
01:05:51,015 --> 01:05:53,575
not because of what they believed about even

1894
01:05:53,575 --> 01:05:56,075
about him. He just saw their humanity.

1895
01:05:56,535 --> 01:05:58,775
He let them see his humanity. And in

1896
01:05:58,775 --> 01:06:01,130
that moment, Zion was created, and that became

1897
01:06:01,130 --> 01:06:03,309
the basis for everything they did together.

1898
01:06:03,849 --> 01:06:05,210
It's not doesn't mean there's not a role

1899
01:06:05,210 --> 01:06:06,969
for doctrine. It doesn't mean I'm challenging the

1900
01:06:06,969 --> 01:06:08,570
doctrine or saying it's not true or the

1901
01:06:08,570 --> 01:06:11,690
handbook's not, you know, whatever, etcetera. I'm just

1902
01:06:11,690 --> 01:06:13,530
saying if you want to have that kind

1903
01:06:13,530 --> 01:06:15,610
of Zion experience that we've been called to

1904
01:06:15,610 --> 01:06:18,065
build, you've got to learn how to bring

1905
01:06:18,065 --> 01:06:19,844
the group to that core

1906
01:06:20,224 --> 01:06:22,224
identity. It is the only thing in these

1907
01:06:22,224 --> 01:06:25,364
latter days that we will fundamentally share together

1908
01:06:25,585 --> 01:06:26,565
is our humanity,

1909
01:06:27,105 --> 01:06:29,184
which by the way, when I say humanity,

1910
01:06:29,184 --> 01:06:31,585
I mean our divinity as children of God.

1911
01:06:31,585 --> 01:06:34,199
Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. And there's so

1912
01:06:34,199 --> 01:06:36,599
many layers to this, you know, like, maybe

1913
01:06:36,599 --> 01:06:38,199
there were one or two who felt like,

1914
01:06:38,199 --> 01:06:40,280
man, I'm, you know, I'm the outlier here

1915
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,679
that my opinions are different. I would probably

1916
01:06:42,679 --> 01:06:44,679
guess 90% of the elders in that room,

1917
01:06:44,679 --> 01:06:46,440
I have sat in their home one on

1918
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:46,940
one

1919
01:06:47,244 --> 01:06:49,405
visiting with them. Right. So there's an effort

1920
01:06:49,405 --> 01:06:51,324
of establishing a relationship, but I hope that

1921
01:06:51,324 --> 01:06:52,684
if they feel that way, they're willing to

1922
01:06:52,684 --> 01:06:53,804
reach out or they know that I'll be

1923
01:06:53,804 --> 01:06:55,644
in their home at some point again. Right.

1924
01:06:55,644 --> 01:06:57,405
And so there's so many layers of culture

1925
01:06:57,405 --> 01:06:58,545
building that to take

1926
01:06:59,005 --> 01:07:01,405
into consideration here, but I think it was

1927
01:07:01,405 --> 01:07:04,400
just well worth the effort of leaning into

1928
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:06,000
that, even though it could have gone sideways

1929
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:07,440
or even though I could have offended one

1930
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:08,960
or two or, you know, I think it

1931
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:11,679
was well worth the effort. So, Dan, any

1932
01:07:11,679 --> 01:07:12,579
final encouragement

1933
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:14,159
as we sign up? Yeah. I think I

1934
01:07:14,159 --> 01:07:15,920
think why are we doing this today? Right?

1935
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:17,594
Like, we're doing this

1936
01:07:17,974 --> 01:07:19,515
because at Leading Saints,

1937
01:07:20,135 --> 01:07:22,775
we have a sense of purpose and mission

1938
01:07:22,775 --> 01:07:24,474
that we're trying to help leaders

1939
01:07:25,015 --> 01:07:26,315
who have the Zion

1940
01:07:26,695 --> 01:07:28,695
vision, who have the Zion mindset in their

1941
01:07:28,695 --> 01:07:30,315
heart. We're trying to help them

1942
01:07:30,829 --> 01:07:32,929
see how this looks in the real world.

1943
01:07:33,150 --> 01:07:35,389
And so when we were feeling this tension

1944
01:07:35,389 --> 01:07:38,050
for our own wards and quorums and stakes,

1945
01:07:38,269 --> 01:07:40,909
and when Kurt was leaning into this with

1946
01:07:40,909 --> 01:07:42,449
the opportunity that he had,

1947
01:07:42,764 --> 01:07:43,964
I didn't get a chance to talk about

1948
01:07:43,964 --> 01:07:45,005
some of the things that we did here,

1949
01:07:45,005 --> 01:07:46,464
but we'll save that for a different

1950
01:07:46,844 --> 01:07:49,264
day. We're sharing them not as the prescription,

1951
01:07:49,885 --> 01:07:51,824
we're sharing them to open the mindset

1952
01:07:52,364 --> 01:07:53,264
and to say,

1953
01:07:53,644 --> 01:07:55,644
look at these experiences, look at these moments,

1954
01:07:55,644 --> 01:07:56,704
look at these opportunities

1955
01:07:57,190 --> 01:07:59,989
with a different lens on. Not the lens

1956
01:07:59,989 --> 01:08:02,230
of the standard and the script and the

1957
01:08:02,230 --> 01:08:05,349
performance and what's the right thing to do

1958
01:08:05,349 --> 01:08:06,409
in the institutional

1959
01:08:06,710 --> 01:08:07,210
sense.

1960
01:08:07,590 --> 01:08:09,670
The lens of, if we were Zion, what

1961
01:08:09,670 --> 01:08:11,594
would we do? Or if I was trying

1962
01:08:11,594 --> 01:08:13,835
to build Zion in a moment, what would

1963
01:08:13,835 --> 01:08:16,635
I do? And I think that perception, that

1964
01:08:16,635 --> 01:08:17,614
spirit of discernment,

1965
01:08:18,154 --> 01:08:20,494
we have access to the Holy Ghost and

1966
01:08:20,954 --> 01:08:23,130
he will teach us all things that we

1967
01:08:23,130 --> 01:08:25,310
should do. And that includes

1968
01:08:25,689 --> 01:08:28,090
how to build Zion in this moment, in

1969
01:08:28,090 --> 01:08:28,989
this space,

1970
01:08:29,289 --> 01:08:30,189
at this time.

1971
01:08:37,314 --> 01:08:39,875
That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints

1972
01:08:39,875 --> 01:08:41,715
podcast. Hey. Listen. Would you do me a

1973
01:08:41,715 --> 01:08:44,114
favor? You know, everybody's got that friend who

1974
01:08:44,114 --> 01:08:46,594
listens to a ton of podcasts, and maybe

1975
01:08:46,594 --> 01:08:48,914
they aren't aware of Leading Saints. So would

1976
01:08:48,914 --> 01:08:50,835
you mind taking the link of this episode

1977
01:08:50,835 --> 01:08:53,130
or another episode of Leading Saints and just

1978
01:08:53,289 --> 01:08:55,130
texting it to that friend? You know who

1979
01:08:55,130 --> 01:08:57,529
I'm talking about, the friend who always listens

1980
01:08:57,529 --> 01:08:59,449
to podcasts and is always telling you about

1981
01:08:59,449 --> 01:09:01,449
different podcasts. Well, it's your turn to tell

1982
01:09:01,449 --> 01:09:04,489
that friend about Leading Saints. So share it.

1983
01:09:04,489 --> 01:09:05,850
We'd also love to hear from you. If

1984
01:09:05,850 --> 01:09:07,994
you have any perspective or thought on this

1985
01:09:08,074 --> 01:09:09,914
episode, you can go to leadingsaints.org

1986
01:09:09,914 --> 01:09:12,635
and actually leave a comment on the, episode

1987
01:09:12,635 --> 01:09:14,795
page or reach out to us at leading

1988
01:09:14,795 --> 01:09:16,335
saints dot org slash contact.

1989
01:09:26,329 --> 01:09:28,750
It came as a result of the position

1990
01:09:28,810 --> 01:09:31,789
of leadership which was imposed upon us

1991
01:09:32,250 --> 01:09:34,350
by the God of heaven who brought

1992
01:09:34,685 --> 01:09:37,985
forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus

1993
01:09:38,125 --> 01:09:38,625
Christ.

1994
01:09:39,164 --> 01:09:40,305
And when the declaration

1995
01:09:40,605 --> 01:09:43,885
was made concerning the own and only true

1996
01:09:43,885 --> 01:09:46,284
and living church upon the face of the

1997
01:09:46,284 --> 01:09:46,770
earth,

1998
01:09:47,329 --> 01:09:49,909
We were immediately put in a position of

1999
01:09:50,130 --> 01:09:50,630
loneliness,

2000
01:09:51,010 --> 01:09:52,550
the loneliness of leadership

2001
01:09:53,170 --> 01:09:56,229
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,

2002
01:09:56,930 --> 01:09:59,409
and to which we must face up with

2003
01:09:59,409 --> 01:10:00,949
boldness and courage

2004
01:10:01,409 --> 01:10:02,229
and ability.