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So my name is Kurt Frankem and I
am the founder and executive director of Leading
Saints and obviously the host of the Leading
Saints podcast. Now, I started Leading Saints back
in 02/2010. It was just a hobby blog
and it grew from there. By the time,
2,014
came around, we started the podcast, and that's
really when it got some,
traction and took off, 02/2016.
We became a five zero one c three
nonprofit organization, and we've been growing ever since.
Since. And now I get the opportunity
of interviewing and talking with remarkable people all
over the world. Now this is a segment
we do on the Leading Saints podcast called
How I Lead, and we reach out to
everyday leaders. They're not experts, gurus, authors, PhDs.
They're just everyday leaders who've been asked to
serve in a specific leadership calling, and we
simply ask them, how is it that you
lead? And they go through some remarkable principles
that should be in a book, that should
be behind a PhD.
They're usually that good, and, we just talk
about, sharing what the other guy is doing.
And I remember being a leader just simply
wanting to know, okay. I know what I'm
trying to do, but what's the other guy
doing? What's working for him? And so that's
why every Wednesday or so, we publish these
how I lead segments to share.
Everyone, this is a how I lead episode
on the Leading Saints podcast, and this is
where we talk with everyday people who actually
turn out to be extraordinary
people
in callings,
that maybe a calling that you've even had.
Right? There's we have a full library of
these things, how I lead. And so if
it's not in this episode, it's maybe in
another one where you can hear somebody speak
to how they led in your calling. In
this calling, we're talking today about being bishop.
We've done a few of those over the
years. And today, we talk with Golden Lund
who, was bishop in Iowa.
Yeah. That's right. We're outside of the Wasatch
Front, people. This is good good stuff. And,
man, Lund had quite a a go, at
being a bishop where in the middle of
it, he kinda tripped over, sort of some
mental health struggles. And he talks about that,
how how he felt and the help he
got and how he came out of that,
and it really is inspiring. And I really
hope if there's there are leaders out there
who are struggling
with their mental health that they'll maybe listen
to this and have the strength to reach
out and get some help because it doesn't
have to be this way. Right? These should
be beautiful,
exciting, fun callings that, yeah, they're gonna be
hard. Yeah. They're gonna be stressful, but they
should be invigorating
and energetic. And, even, Golden talks about the,
the Saturday night blues. Right? Sometimes we get
you know, a lot of people get the
Sunday night blues, going into a Monday. But,
man, sometimes
bishops or leaders out there feel like they
don't have the strength to go into a
Sunday, one more Sunday. And so he talks
about that and, really just being open and
vulnerable with his ward and sharing his struggles
that way that really united the ward and
help other people feel comfortable and open up
as well. So
inspiring journey for with Golden. I think you'll
appreciate it. We recorded this in Zion Lab
in front of a live studio audience. Well,
they were online anyways, a live virtual audience.
And, that way people could ask questions and
listen in, and, we're doing more and more
of these. We hope you visit Zion Lab
and got a and create a free account
there and join in on the discussion. Go
ask a a question, the general discussion, and
and or in one of your the the
one of the discussion groups related to your
callings,
and, you'll be amazed the feedback you get
and the inspiration that comes from that. So
that's where we recorded this, and we'll have
some people, chime in and and with their
questions as as we go. So here's my
interview with Golden Lund.
Alright, Golden. Welcome to the Leading Saints podcast.
Thank you so much. It's a privilege to
be here,
longtime listener,
and advocate
for the show.
Good. I appreciate that. That's awesome. And, how
how long do you remember how you first
came aware of became aware of Leading Saints?
Yeah. Actually, I think it was so I
listened to,
the All In podcast with Morgan
Morgan Jones. Yeah. And I think you did
an an interview with her, and that's how
I first learned about Leading Saint. So I
went to your
Awesome. Yeah, out to your site and, yeah,
got hooked right away. So That's great. And
were you serving as bishop at the time?
I can't
it was close around the start or right
before, but yeah.
Nice. So And, where is it that you're
located?
So it's a town called Bettendorf,
Iowa. Most people are familiar with Davenport. We're
right next to Davenport.
The area I live in is considered the
Quad Cities.
We we're right on the Iowa, Illinois border,
so Bettendorf,
Davenport, Moline, Rock Island is kind of what
the Quad Cities is considered. So Yeah. And
is there a story behind you being called
as bishop?
Yeah. So I was called in the,
in the right at the beginning of COVID.
So it was interesting. My stake president, the
stake president at the time,
was the CEO
of a, of a major medical network.
Kind of fortuitous actually that he
had such a pulse on what was going
on
in the hospitals and things. But so he
called me virtually.
We'd already been so this was this was,
like, the 2020.
We'd already been shut down for about a
month and a half.
And then
then he called me in, like, the yeah.
The May, and then he said, I think
we're gonna be going back to church,
in about a month. Well, it took until
August 2,
and then it was sustained over two Sundays
because,
you know, we were,
trying to go downsize how many people were
in each
at the chapel. So it was over two
Sundays that I was sustained.
And yeah. So I knew for a while
before I was actually,
sustained and set apart.
Yeah. That's awesome. And what do you mean
what what do you, what do you remember
from those early
days? I mean, obviously, it was a different
time in in history when we're kinda shut
down, but what, what do you remember as
far as trying to just get your feet
under you?
Well, I remember,
one of the counselors that I called reached
out ahead of time and he said, what
can I do to help? And I said,
let's just figure out how to get back
to church safely.
Yeah. And and peacefully, you know, it was
it it was starting to get, you know,
a little bit,
you know, combatant about how to approach
the the pandemic. So it was,
just definitely some
interesting time to be called as a bishop
for sure. Yeah. And and so it was
quite quite a few months after that until
he actually went back to church. I'm trying
to remember. It's all, just a blur to
me, but do you remember getting back into
it later on? Yeah. So it that when
I was called is when we started to
go back.
So they they they couldn't sustain me until
we had people to sustain me. They were
gonna do it virtually.
So I I guess maybe I'm not sure
on the question, but,
but, yeah, we
so we were it was March when everything
shut down and then August early August is
when we went back. And then I do
remember a period where we stopped again
maybe towards
the wintertime
Mhmm. And then and
yeah. And then going back. And then and
then I remember when president Nelson,
encouraged everyone to mask again, that was, like,
the 2021.
That was when things got really
dicey when it was like we're putting the
mask back on.
Yeah. So Yeah. And,
maybe just give us the the general, like,
demographics, geographics of your ward, how it's laid
out, and the unique
characteristics.
So,
I I'd say we have a wide range
of economic
demographics.
Davenport is a is a fairly large city.
I have parts of Davenport in the ward
and then parts of Bettendorf.
And Bettendorf is is a more I'd say,
it's probably the most affluent
portion of the Quad Cities.
So you have, you know, you have a
wide range
and and a wide range of economic status.
You also have a large range of,
you know, we have a lot of elderly.
We have
a good good number of youth. We have
about
30 or thirty, thirty five active youth
and,
and we also have a fair amount of
young newlyweds
as well. So we have a,
we have a very famous chiropractic school that
a lot of young
people come to, Palmer Chiropractic.
So we get some transient people to come
here for a few years.
Yep.
Are you are you pretty spread out then?
Is
Well, we're actually actually, the the the missionaries
have told us that our war boundary, our
particular war boundary is the smallest geographical war
boundary in their mission. Oh, wow. So yeah.
It's it's for for Iowa, it's a fairly
small,
geographic area. Mhmm. Yep.
Very cool. Well and I appreciate you reaching
out. I guess it was a few weeks
ago. I and I think more people should
do this. I hope people listening can feel
empowered to do this where you came to
the end of your time, as bishop, and,
obviously, you've learned a few things, and it's
always great to to share what you learned.
So I appreciate you,
leaning in and being willing to to share
some of these concepts.
How how long ago were you released?
I think it's been twelve days.
So two Sundays ago.
Yeah. And, I I'm for the first time
in
over a decade, I'm I'm a free agent,
and I don't have a calling. So it's
very, very strange. Yeah. But
And, how so how long did you serve
then? It was it was pretty close to
right at five years.
So just over five years. Yeah. Cool.
Awesome. Well,
where's a good, you know, just
jumping off point with your as you reflect
on your time as a leader and principles
and, stories or what might
So I guess,
as the first place I wanna go is
just talking I've never really had anyone been
in a situation where everyone kind of does
someone does like
a a rundown of all the things that
are involved with being a bishop.
It would, you know, kind of to
to give some perspective on it, my my
dad my my dad was a bishop, but
before he was a bishop, he was a
counselor
and a bishopric.
And
he said,
before he was after that experience of being
a counselor to a bishop, he thought he
knew what a bishop did. And then when
he was called to be a bishop, he
said, I had no idea
what a bishop actually does.
So,
I just kinda went through the handbook.
You know, so a list of additional meetings
that you're,
that not only supposed to attend, but you're
also planning and conducting,
bishopric,
usually weekly, ward council,
ward youth council, and you have your priest
corps presidency meetings.
You have,
you're the president of the Aaronic priesthood.
You're also the priest quorum
president.
So naturally you're attending all the quorum meetings
and participating in youth activities. You have responsibility
to young women.
You meet with the young women's president regularly.
You also participate in young women meetings, service,
and activities.
Meet with youth annually.
All youth annually and then youth that are
in their sixteenth year, you meet with them
twice a year.
You have a responsibility to the release society
president you're supposed to meet. It says in
the handbook at least monthly with the release
society president.
They also give guidance to the elders corn
president,
and meet with them regularly.
And then you also additionally have every quarter,
a quarterly
meeting with the early study president and the
underscore president to discuss
ministering efforts,
and then you have your individual meetings,
so members who just members who seek spiritual
guidance, those who have way personal problems, these
are these are like phrases exactly from the
handbook.
Those who've committed serious sins, those seeking financial
assistance,
you make decisions about the use of fast
offering funds,
you meet with all the members
to conduct
tiling declarations,
coordinate the work of salvation and exaltation,
and you have your stake meetings, you have
a quarterly meeting with your
with the stake president, you have bishop or
trainings that I think are at least twice
a year,
you have trainings that happen at state conference,
I mean, on and on.
It's a lot it's and and it's I'm
not like like trying to, like,
tout, like, these are all the things that
that I accomplished or did. In fact, some
of them I did very poorly.
But,
it I just wanna lay out the point
that someone serving as a bishop
is nothing short of a miracle and it's
also
important to recognize. And I think a lot
of people do that this is this is
a,
a calling for the entire family.
You know, particularly
my wife who,
who was just she's one of the strongest
women I know, and she never once complained
about anything that I had to do or
be outside the home because of my
calling.
And
so,
but, you know, when you got young kids
I I have I have twins and, boy
girl twins. They were seven
at the time it was called. And at
the time, they still like their dad, you
know, at the and they wanna spend time
with your dad with their dad. And,
but,
I get but and now they're now they're
almost teenagers, and they should sometimes care less.
But,
but the other thing that I bring out
or bring that up is just
to remind people to, you know, go easy.
Go easy on your bishops.
They've got a lot that they're taking on.
And and at any given point, you're also
dealing with some very serious issues,
you know, that
that take a lot of your time, like
divorces,
you know, legal issues,
abuse allegations, you know, it's it's
it's a lot, but but I yeah. So
So early on, did you feel like you
got to a place where you're just really
overdoing it and overwhelmed and
barely,
you know, operating?
So yeah. I mean, yeah. When I first
started, so I I I I kind of,
had some baptism by fire,
with a very messy divorce.
It was a family that actually I had
been ministering to,
and,
but I was also,
so I'm I didn't share this, but I'm
I'm also a a musician,
for my profession. And with so with
with COVID, all performances are being shut down,
and my work is kind of, like,
going here. And so I had the space
to, like,
have the extra time to kinda figure out
being a bishop,
which was a blessing.
So but when I will say I did
have a point,
when
about a about a year and a half
into it that I had
one of the biggest crashes of my life,
actually.
So
So what's what's the story? How did that
happen? So, yeah. So,
so so about a year and I think
it was, like, fourteen months,
we had a big re boundary reorganization.
We went from five wards in the Quad
Cities to four,
So we lost some members, we gained some
new members,
and that I think was
there was more to do with that than
when I first became a bishop. Just everyone's
released.
You had to,
you know, make a make a war from
the ground up.
So,
yeah, I remember that first week, I think
our me and my counselors met,
like, three evenings that week to to try
and, you know, just be praying and and
considering who to call us. Presidents
and Relief Society primary,
elders corn president recommendation, you know.
So and at that time,
I also,
things had started to pick back up again
for my career.
And I was so I was we have
two small universities
in the area,
that I was teaching,
adjunct at.
And the work for both of them had
really picked up, and I was basically was
kind of teaching an overload.
And and I was teaching there was one
class I was teaching that was completely outside
my wheelhouse. I was teaching a writing class.
So
I
I I need to formally, like, write,
cards of of apologies to the students. But
anyway
Yeah.
But,
so it, you know, it was it was
it was exciting. Like, all these opportunities
were coming open for me. Like, the new
award, that was exciting. It was great. And
I and I but I kind of and
and so at the time that all that
was happening, I I had the energy for
it. And then,
you know,
then it came around,
after the first after the first of the
years first of the year in 2022,
I just
I just had a major crash and a
major crash of energy. It's kinda if you
if you've ever listened to, I'm I'm sure
you probably
have, Howard Holland's talk,
like a broken vessel. He describes,
he describes kind of that
I can't remember the phrase. He uses a,
you know, a a psychiatric break or something
Mhmm. That,
and I think that was that was similar
to what I I was experiencing,
and I I mean it was just
just getting out of bed
every day was it was just a challenge.
I just had kind of really drained
drained all my reservoirs and,
through this process though,
well,
I guess I don't know what where exactly
I wanna go with this, but,
I I I did, I did remember I
remember going to the stake president who,
so this is now a new stake president,
the one the one that called me, but
he so he was we had the CEO
of
of, of our
major health network, and then the the following
SIG president was called as the CEO of
the mental health network in the area. So,
so that I mean,
that was a really great resource for me
because he,
when I went to him and
and about the struggles, he had some good
recommendations of a counselor for me.
But,
but, yeah, I I remember going to him
and and I asked him for a blessing
and I just
I mean, there was a big part of
me that I just just wanted him to
release me. I just didn't feel like I
could keep going,
and I had the I remember telling you
know, turning to my wife on Saturday nights,
and they talk about the the Sunday night
blues. I had the Saturday night blues. I
was just I like, I don't wanna get
up and be the bishop tomorrow.
Yeah. No.
So,
but, I do remember specifically,
in that blessing that my stake president gave
me, he he said,
that you belong right where you are. You
belong as the Bishop of the Bentendorf Ward,
and you belong
in the career you're in, you know, and
which,
was over time became very reassuring.
It's not real part. Big part of me
didn't wanna hear that at the time, but,
you know,
what I
what I remember sharing after this experience
is how
how
tragic it would have been
for me to not push through because the
experiences I had after that
were some of
the most powerful,
spiritual experiences of my life,
in in my time as bishop.
So
Yeah. So I'm curious, like, was there a
clear, like, time period where that that kinda
that slump lasted? Or
Yeah.
It was kind of strange. It was, like,
almost like the the calendar year of 2022.
I remember,
it was around the turn of the the
new year, and what,
of 2023,
and what I discovered
about myself is that I
had ADHD.
And,
so I I remember listening you had you
had someone on that was an ADHD,
person. I I I actually reached out to
her after that. I could not remember her
name. But yeah.
So so it's kind of a
in looking back, it's kind of an incident
of,
who shall ever shall lose himself shall find
himself.
That was the way I found myself because
I've had, you know, I struggle with depression
throughout my life, but I
I realized that
I think it's more of an issue of
of my
my brain working so hard at things and
and my body not giving my me the
feedback I need,
when I'm pushing myself too far. And then,
and so it took a while,
to finally actually get someone that actually officially
diagnosed it. As as an adult, it's really
challenging to find someone that that diagnoses adults.
But, but once I did and and got
on medication, like, it really
really helped a lot just and also just
learning about it and creating awareness in myself
of,
you know, things that I need to do
to make sure that that I'm keeping balance.
But,
but yeah. So it was around the turn
turn of that year,
2023.
But,
but then It sounds like it was just
a matter of, like, getting, you know, seeing
the right,
getting in with a counselor, you know, kinda
going down the right path to lead to
a diagnosis and then being able to treat
that diagnosis.
Right.
Yeah. Right.
Yeah. Wait. There was the was there more
to it other than maybe just the medication
or tackling? Like, did you
did did did you,
you know, force yourself to say no to
more things or,
balance your life out in other ways? Or
Yeah. I,
so I shared with my I shared with
my bishop Rick one time
how tough things were for me, and I
got a I got a blessing from
it was my executive secretary
at the time who was a a former
bishop,
and he you know, being a former bishop,
he,
you know, understood
the the the weight he the weight of
it, and and he did more to,
kinda be
a a safeguard of my time, you know.
And
and when I was
he would say he would cut things off
on on a Sunday and say, no. He's
not available
anymore at this time. So he he tried
to monitor things that way.
And I
I did also
it it kind of motivated
me to
to get things more involved to get the
elders quorum president, Relief Society president,
and then
I I don't know when this happened in
in
in this timeline, but I I called the,
temporal welfare specialist that really
handled
the the bulk of of the process of,
working with people and
and and getting them assistance.
So, yeah, those were some things that that
I worked hard. And and we did some
things also to
remember we had a fifth Sunday lesson on
just reminding people that
the bishop's primary responsibilities toward the youth and
the rising generation and that there are issues
that are not worthiness issues that can be
taken to the Relief Society president, the elders
quorum president.
So,
yeah. Yeah. And was there anything you did
to help the elders president, the leaders president
sort feel enabled to take those on? Or
or or sometimes people are like, yeah. I
get that that's what I'm supposed to do,
but I just I don't wanna talk to
them.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I, you know, I
we,
counseled together about kind of a process of
when temporal welfare needs come up,
and some things to communicate to them.
I don't know that we always work
temporal welfare is just it's a really
challenging
you know, you you put on paper,
all the things you're supposed to do, but
usually people with temporal flare issues have so
many other things that they're struggling in their
life and,
makes it difficult to just focus in on
that one thing. But,
you know, we try to
I I I gave them permissions. I I
mean, usually the Relief Society president and Elizrogan
president already have permissions to on the LCR
to,
to put in food orders.
And,
I just,
it was really through the things really started
to work well when I had that temporal
welfare specialist. And actually,
kind of a funny story,
he was he was a elders corn president,
for a while, and then he was released,
and he had been involved in some temporal
welfare issues. He shared with me later, and
then his next calling was temporal welfare specialist,
and he shared with me later,
when I was released as elders corn president,
I was kinda relieved to not have to
deal with those temporal welfare issues issues anymore.
And then he's and then I got called
into that, and he was kinda like,
really?
But then after several years, he he told
me how much he enjoyed doing it. But
but having him as the point man,
to just to take that that self reliance
plan. And, actually, he took that self reliance
plan
and,
and
made
it more much more detailed.
The one the church puts out
is, I think, broad for a reason because
we're a global church, but he he because
as we do the the the one that
the church had, we'd find out
later after we've been working them, oh, you
have these other expenses? Okay. You know? And
so we we went I mean, he just
put every detail in there, you know,
insurance, car payment,
you know, your
specific utilities, gas, electric, water, all the you
know, all those details because so he and
he would and he,
he had some county background. So,
he was
particularly,
had a niche for that sort of thing.
But,
but, yeah, him handling all of all of
that, and then he would coordinate with, the
release study president and the eligible forum president
on where they could come in. And it
was kind of like a a council we'd
have every once in a while with me
and elder school president, the release study president,
and the temple welfare specialist
about how each of us could what each
of our roles were with each individual situation.
Yeah. So And then by the time it
came to you, you were just sort
of taking in recommendations and making a decision?
Or Yeah. Yeah. I counsel with I counsel
with
the the temper welfare specialist about after he
met with someone, and and
and then
we take action from there. It's interesting in
the handbook,
that
in under in whatever the section is titled,
temper welfare issues, it talks about who can
do,
food orders, who can do,
go through a self reliance plan with them,
who and and all of them list the
only thing that the bishop has to do,
this list that he has to do is
approve,
the disbursement of of fast sovereign funds, and
that's it. And that's what I tried to
get
my role to be, to minimize
to. So Yeah. Makes sense. In that regard.
So during this kinda this slump, this tough
time where you had some mental health
issues, I mean, did did you open up
to it more broadly with your ward or
you sketch it?
Eventually,
yes, I did.
So I I think the first
the first more public
place I did it was
was actually at a youth night.
It was kind of a
it it was on a it was on
a weeknight, but it was kind of like
a we had a a fire pit in
the in the church parking lot. It kinda
made it like a fireside, and
and I shared with them, you know, I
I I said I I had had a
recent
it was recently after I had gone to
the stake president,
and
and I told them,
you know, what what he had told me
in the blessing,
about how I belonged right where I where
I was,
and that I was, you know
well, I guess I started by saying,
when he because he always starts out
his,
his quarterly interviews with,
you know, how are you doing personally?
And that was kind of the only question
we got to on on that picture when
I when I was really struggling.
And I and I told the youth, I
said I told them I'm really struggling right
now. Like, I'm just struggling to
function as a person.
You know, let alone,
you know,
if when I'm struggling as a person, how
can I
then help lift others if I can't even
lift myself up, you know?
And so I kinda use that as a
as as a launching pad to to remind
them that what, you know, they belonged right
where they were
and,
and whatever struggles they're having, like,
doing it
in the context of of having
of of the gospel is always
is always gonna give you
better answers than what the, you know, what
the world has to offer. But Yeah.
But then so it was,
it wasn't until
my this last,
ward conference
the talk that I gave that I really
I opened up to the whole ward about
it and shared shared in my talk about
about that that struggle that I went through,
and how
how the work of the Lord it it
really is the work of the Lord. And
because,
I was not able to function well, but
still the things that were happening,
with the work continued.
I still sent people out, you know, sent
people out on missions, helped send people out
on missions. I still we still,
were able to to meet every Sunday, and
everyone was able to come and and renew
their baptismal covenants. And
and again, like what I shared earlier, just
how working
through that,
you're kind of going from that,
rock bottom place
and sticking with
what the lord had called me to do
and trusting that he would help me
to get through it,
and that I could experience,
again, the joys and the experiences that I
had after that on the once I got
to the other side as a bishop,
I think we're just so much more,
so much more fulfilling
and,
you know, kinda like Alma the younger talks
about when he was in his,
you know, in his repentance process in those
three days of, you know,
that once he caught hold on on,
Christ and focused on Christ that his joy
was ex exquisite as was his pain.
So
Yeah. And I had people yeah. I had
so
and that's that's I guess, you could say
that's kind of a maybe a trademark of
of the way I lead is just to
show vulnerability
and Yeah.
There was one there was one time also
I guess
when I kinda early on when things were
starting to kind of
spiral down the wrong direction, I I wasn't
conducting that SACRA meeting,
but I got up and bore my testimony.
I said, I'm not standing up as your
bishop, I'm standing up as an elder of
the ward,
who just
needs strength right now. And
and
that,
you know, know, I got a lot of
things on my plate that I'm feeling like
I'm not managing well. And and there was
a brother that reached out to me after
that and
and and said,
you know, we it's it's easy to take
for granted all the things that a bishop
does and and thank you for,
you know, sharing that. And
he also just
later in another conversation, he was one of
our young men's advisors. He said, you know,
most of the bishops that I've had
are he used a term I can't repeat,
but
but he said, I've never had some a
leader that that that,
you know, I felt like I could relate
to and that,
and I think that's
generally, as a leader, you wanna appear strong.
You wanna appear like you're you you you
have it all together and that so you
so that people will will feel like
they're confident in trusting you and and following
you.
But I think, you know,
it's really
it's really refreshing for members to to just
be thinking about how their leaders are going
through struggles too, and and they have to
work out their own
issues. And,
and it I think it makes them,
a lot of them more willing to come
and share things with you when they they
know that you understand.
So Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful. Is there any
anything else comes to mind if there if
there's a bishop or a leader listening who's
maybe in in a similar situation? Any other
advice or perspective you'd offer? Sometimes you gotta
be a little selfish. And,
because I remember
so we we alternate,
we have there's two wards that meet in
our building, and,
the other ward
never
they never wanted to overlap anytime. So
it was so 09:00 and 11:30
were our
two times we change between. And when we
have 09:00 church,
most of the people on the word council,
they or especially my my,
bishop or still wanted to have the meetings
before church.
So that was meaning to start at, like,
06:30.
And,
and my wife noticed that,
and and the reasons they said, well, you
know, in the afternoons after church, then as
some of our our kids are in presidency
meetings or they have, you know, it's hard
to figure out another time after church.
And,
and my wife said,
she told me recently, because we're at a
we're on the 11:30 right now. She said,
if you're still bishop,
when we go to 09:00 church, you need
to put your foot down and say, what's
best for my family is that we have
meetings after church.
So,
yeah. I guess I guess you have to
you have to not just I I'm kind
of a I'm a little bit of a
people pleaser, and so I kinda tend to
go with what the majority
wants to go with.
But
I think in that instance,
I probably should've. Because, like, it was in
particularly in those year it was those years
that were a little bit more difficult for
me.
So just just that
not having that that one morning a week
to
to get a little extra rest. So Yeah.
And there's so many instances where we may
fit something hard when it doesn't have to
be hard, but we kinda convince ourselves, like,
well, I think, you know, it's supposed to
be hard as a bishop, and this is
just part of it. Right? But there's nothing
wrong with,
bringing common sense or, you know, practice solutions
in because Right. You're on on you and
others. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. That's awesome.
So you introduced me to this concept of
the Sariah effect or the Sariah factor. Break
that down, Paris.
Okay.
So,
so I kinda feel a little bad for
Sariah,
Sariah, Lehi's wife, because the only kinda specific
story we have about her is is complaining
to Lehi about
him sending his sons to Laban.
And, you know, it's how it's so it's
been a while. They send they've sent him
back to Jerusalem. It's been a while
since they,
come back and she's just assuming the worst.
Right? I mean, she's,
you know, the mama bear strife strife, I
can't imagine. Right? And,
so and then she's she's using like layman
and lemural
rhetoric. Right? You're a visionary man. Like,
and so she's kinda getting,
the mama bear sad feelings are taking over.
So she never received the revelation, right, for
the sons to go back.
And
and as a bishop
and and often and I mean in any,
I guess, even any president of an organization,
you have certain,
you have a certain perspective that others
won't always see.
And even when those that,
even when those that are on your, you
know, leadership team disagree with you,
you still need to,
stick to your
to what you feel and know is right.
I'm trying to I don't remember what her
name was, but I think you interviewed her,
and I know she was on the,
follow him podcast with Hank Smith and John,
by the way. She describes
this analogy really well of standing on a
hillside,
kinda looking up at a hillside,
at at an elementary school, and there's this
crosswalk where kids are crossing the street to
get to the school.
And so at this crosswalk,
cars are stopping, and she had this view
of of these cars that are stopping.
And there was this one instance when this,
this girl that's on her bike fell off
the bike in front of this car,
and, of course, it takes her a little
while to get back on, but,
the car's behind the first the front car,
so you can see the the people in
those cars just getting frustrated, like, why aren't
you moving? Like,
you move forward.
And then once they can see the girl
on on the bike,
then she sees the reaction of, oh my
goodness. If, you know,
I I feel terrible that I wanted to,
that I was being impatient about that, you
know.
And that's a lot,
a lot like what it is sometimes as
a bishop because people confide in you certain
information that you can't
or you shouldn't share,
and so you have to move forward with
the decision
without telling them really why, you know, and
that can be that can be a challenge.
So I guess to give you
one example,
so I refer to the boundary reorganization
a few years back,
and
in that,
boundary change, we
acquired
a neighborhood
that was for
for Iowa. It had pretty dense LDS population.
You know, I think everyone in the neighborhood
there's at least half a dozen families in
that neighborhood that
were all, like, half a mile from each
other. And so they were they were pretty
close. And I I knew some of them
from,
you know,
stake events and things, but I didn't know
all of them.
And there was one couple in particular that,
that shortly after I became their bishop, I
they,
shared that they were having some some marriage
struggles.
And,
so I started meeting
with each of them individually
and,
you know, we put them on our prayer
role and more counsel and
but as as time goes on,
and this sadly
precipitated into a separation and divorce,
but as time goes on, I'm realizing that
that people in this neighborhood have formed their
kind of formed their opinions about,
who's more in the right, who's, you know,
who's not. And,
and without having that knowledge and just meeting
with them one on one, I'm getting my
own impressions that are different
from what what their where their opinions are.
And,
so having this incongruent incongruence,
I I talked to some of these and,
like,
you know, three or four of
these families that live in this neighborhood are
on my work council. And so I'm trying
to find I I talked to them individually
trying to find out some more background information,
still feeling like
their their opinion
or the way they feel about it is
not the right way to look at it.
And and I remember talking to
another friend who was not in the ward
but knew the sister very well.
And I said, this is I'm getting all
this feedback
about
the brother and seems like people are,
kinda siding with him and
but, you know, I feel differently. She said,
well, you're the bishop.
Like, you are entitled to that
to that perspective and discernment.
And so I actually,
and it it it ended up that the
the the brother, when they separated, he moved
to a different area,
but it still felt like people were he
was still
contacting members of the ward, kind of,
he kind of
gotten them to,
appeal to his side. And I in ward
council, I said I've I've done a lot
of praying about this. I've met with both
of them.
The sister is now in our ward. We
need to fully support her.
And
so
so that's just that that's just one example
of and and I actually have an example
of being on the other side
where,
we had a,
we had a family
that was in a neighboring ward
that wanted to move into our ward.
It was kind of awkward because,
the brother was a counselor to the bishop
of that ward,
and
and their daughter so the and this was
about six months after that boundary change,
and,
so they had gone to the stake president
and said we'd really like to go to
the Bendorf Ward. Our daughter has a lot
of friends in this ward.
She's really struggling in the current ward, and
I was feeling like
what kind of precedent are we setting if
if people can just kind of choose wards
and ward hop and things like that.
I remember, I mean, my my counselors could
feel similarly, but the state president,
he hold he held holds the keys for
that. And he as he met with the
family and they prayed about it together and
he put in did the official
submission to the first presidency.
They ended up coming to our ward.
So,
that family actually moved recently
and then
just just a few weeks before I was
released
and he,
he sent a note
after
when he found out I had been released,
and I'll just share.
He said, hi, bishop. This is so and
so. I heard that you were just released.
I wanted to let you know that you
were an incredible bishop.
I'm so grateful for the sacrifice you and
your family made on behalf of us board
members.
You clearly were following the spirit. One of
the primary reasons we asked to have our
records moved in the Bendorf Ward was was
for Annie.
She was struggling in her testimony, had no
friends at church, and she was showing signs
she wanted to, nothing to do with the
church.
There were a number of miracles that took
place along the way.
One of them was sister Layton and the
new young woman presidency being called. Annie grew
so close to those women and over the
last three years has developed a strong testimony
and is now in a totally different place
facing a new ward.
She now has a strong desire to serve
her mission.
So
Revelation
is messy. It it can it feels messy
at the time, and that situation felt,
a little messy and and it was something
that I hadn't gotten confirmation on, that they
should I mean,
most bishops will welcome whoever into the ward.
Right? But but, I was worried that this
is gonna set a precedent. Are people gonna
start moving out of my work because they
like a different war better? And, you know,
but it clearly and and
and my reply to him was,
you know, that it's hard to tell on
a lot of youth
what sort of difference you're making and and
if what
what they're taking in.
But with Annie, it was,
it was clear she of her growth,
and it was always clear that her testimony
was growing and she had really changed from
the time they moved in to when they
they moved out.
Incidentally,
that young women that young women president
was
by far the longest
it took us to
to get an answer on.
So,
in that situation,
we've been working for months considering someone,
and just there were a few names that
they felt,
yeah, that person can do it, but just
not feeling a confirmation.
And
so we
finally,
started looking someplace we hadn't looked because we
had recently called a new
primary presidency.
And
so we just those those sisters were off
the table. They, you know, they
were new in their presidency.
And
when we started to look at one of
those presidency members,
we
then it then and pray about them that
it became then it became clear.
So it's just interesting that, you know, that's
where that's what he pointed to was that,
you know, woman's president who it took us
a long time to get that
the revelation on that. And,
and the primary president was not was not
initially very happy about it either losing that
counselor, but it but I do remember her,
saying that she
and and it was one of those situations
where,
you know, you don't just wanna say, okay,
we're taking this person from you,
and you just gotta deal with it. You
know, I wanted we counseled with the primary
president and said, this is what we're feeling,
and how,
you know, is this something you can support?
And initially, she was just like,
I can't think of anyone that I wanna
replace this person with. This is the only
person I want in this in this position.
And, but then as she prayed about it,
we gave her time to pray about it,
and she said she went from praying
about just the idea of whether she should,
that because she can feel good about
releasing this person to praying for her
in her,
to prepare her for her calling as young
women's president.
So
Yeah. I love that. Okay. And so going
back to the the Sariah factor, I mean,
that's just
just going to a place real recognizing you
don't have all the information
even though you wanna maybe make a call
or a judgment on something happening.
It's or maybe give it time and and
usually
other things will come to the surface or
others with all the information will make the
best decision with all things considered.
Yeah. And that it's okay to feel like
you disagree
with the decision
Yeah. You know, of of your of the
leader that
that holds keys and
holds the authority and has the perspective and
just have to, you
know
Yeah. For
sure. Very good. Well, Golden, this has been
this has been awesome.
Just think there is
Jared,
said here, you know, god bless you, Golden,
for the only faith he says, the only
faith crisis I've had was in the dark
night of the soul
rock bottom place serving
as bishop. And so there's others that kinda
just go through a lot. Right? Right. Even
during these times where and, unfortunately, sometimes our
culture wants to frame them as, oh, you
know, you're so blessed during this time and
every you know, the blessings are obvious, which,
you know, sure that happens.
But,
sometimes it's just hard. Sometimes it's rough. You
know?
And, that's
I I that's something we should normalize more
often. You know? Right.
I,
I remember Kirby Hayborne's,
interview.
Uh-huh. And he talked about
I remember him saying, oh, it's just so
wonderful. You know, you go visit with people
and you you you connect with them and
and you cry with them and then you
come home
to your wife and you tell her about
it and you cry together. And and I'm
thinking,
no. When I come home from a spiritual
experience, then my wife I come home to
my wife telling me, like, do you know
what your son did today? And blah, you
know.
Yes.
So and you experience a lot of this
kind of, like, whiplash.
You know? Like, you have might have a
great spiritual experience, and then you come home
and and then you're, like, feeling guilty because
there's been struggles at home, and you're not
there to to help and you know?
So it's
definitely a
a tug of war with your heart sometimes.
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, this has this
has been great.
Bryce says, thanks for sharing, Golden. Hearing these
stories makes me want to tell my bishop
how great he is doing. It's true that
it's easy to overlook all that that's happening
from our church leaders. And I'll tell you
what, there's nothing
more powerful, you know, than just a simple
text message from a member who's just recognizing
the most simple things
and, you know, giving you a moment of
appreciation. And so, yeah, I think we should
all make that that goal to reach out
to our bishops or really study presidents or
whomever and just say, hey. Thanks. I don't
know what you you've been going through this
week, but I'm sure it wasn't,
easy.
Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Awesome. Well, Golden, last
question I have for you is as you
reflect now that, you know, just being released,
you reflect on those five years being a
bishop and a leader. How has being a
leader helped you become a better follower of
Jesus Christ?
It's been great to have
some time to reflect, kind of see the
forest from the trees.
If people ask
ask me if, you know, I feel lighter
since I've been released,
I don't know that that's what I feel,
but what I do know is I have
less mental traffic in my mind.
But
I'm so I've
been able to,
I guess, see why
I've been doing what I've been doing.
And, you know, for so long
growing up,
I kind of looked at my,
I guess,
keeping the commandments and and doing what I
felt the lord want me to do was
was so I could get what I wanted
out of life. And not that I had
anything that was unrighteous, but I had certain
things that I I thought was
I wanted to do with my life and
and it was kind of this equation thing.
I think it's fairly normal, but,
you know, as a bishop, I
I feel like I came to a point
where,
doing what I knew was right wasn't a
means to an end. It is the end.
And
that
there's nothing that has brought me more joy
than
in helping bring people to Christ
and to
help build the kingdom of God
on the earth and to help prepare
the world for,
his return to the earth.
So
coming to that place where,
I used to feel like that that,
I guess, church things were an obligation and
sometimes a distraction from other, like, career pursuits
and things.
But
really all that I that that I
care most about is helping building the kingdom
of God in my own family and in
in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter
day Saints. And so that's really
changed my
heart,
to be able to
to truly,
find joy in that and not just as
a,
you know, I'm collecting my celestial
collateral, you know?
So,
and just just also a chance to just
walk in his shoes and be able to
see people
a little bit more like the savior sees
them.
It's just a,
I mean, there aren't really aren't words to
to describe what that's like.
So it's just been an amazing
experience that I'm truly grateful for.
And that concludes this how I lead
interview. I hope you enjoyed it. And, I
would ask you, could you take a minute
and drop this link in an email, on
social media, in a text, wherever it makes
the most sense, and share it with somebody
who could relate to this experience. And this
is how we develop as leaders, just hearing
what the other guy is doing, trying some
things out, testing, adjusting
for your area, and,
that's where great leadership's discovered. Right? So we
would love to have you, share this with,
somebody in this calling or a related calling,
and that would be great. And also, if
you know somebody,
any type of leader who would be a
fantastic guest on the how I lead segment,
reach out to us. Go to leadingsaints.org/contact.
Maybe send this in individual an email letting
them know that you're going to be suggesting
their name for this interview. We'll reach out
to them and,
see if we can line them up. So,
again, go to leadingsaints.org/contact,
and there you can submit all the information
and let us know. And maybe they will
be on a future how I lead segment
on the Leading Saints podcast.
It came as a result of the position
of leadership which was imposed upon us
by the God of heaven who brought forth
a restoration
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And when the declaration
was made concerning the own and only true
and living church upon the face of the
earth,
We were immediately put in a position of
loneliness.
The loneliness of leadership
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,
and to which we must face up with
boldness
and courage
and
ability.