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Hey. If you think Leading Saints is just

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a podcast, well, that's a big mistake. We

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are so much more than a podcast. We've

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established online a Leading Saints community.

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That's right. If you go to leadingsaints.org/zion,

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you'll be pushed towards a community online where

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the discussion is really happening. Sure. You're gonna

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listen to this episode. You'll get some great

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tips and ideas and hear a thought provoking

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discussion, but the conversation doesn't end there. We,

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go over to the Leading Saints community and

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talk further there. You can make comments. You

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ask questions, and we'll probably do some follow-up

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live streams with maybe the same guest.

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But a lot is going on at the

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Leading Saints community. So check out the show

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notes for the link, leadingsaints.org/zion,

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and join the Leading Saints community.

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So my name is Kurt Frankem and I

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am the founder and executive director of Leading

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Saints and obviously the host of the Leading

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Saints podcast. Now, I started Leading Saints back

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in 02/2010. It was just a hobby blog

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and it grew from there. By the time,

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2,014

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came around, we started the podcast, and that's

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really when it got some,

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traction and took off, 02/2016.

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We became a five zero one c three

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nonprofit organization, and we've been growing ever since.

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Since. And now I get the opportunity

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of interviewing and talking with remarkable people all

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over the world. Now this is a segment

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we do on the Leading Saints podcast called

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How I Lead, and we reach out to

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everyday leaders. They're not experts, gurus, authors, PhDs.

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They're just everyday leaders who've been asked to

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serve in a specific leadership calling, and we

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simply ask them, how is it that you

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lead? And they go through some remarkable principles

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that should be in a book, that should

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be behind a PhD.

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They're usually that good, and, we just talk

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about, sharing what the other guy is doing.

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And I remember being a leader just simply

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wanting to know, okay. I know what I'm

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trying to do, but what's the other guy

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doing? What's working for him? And so that's

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why every Wednesday or so, we publish these

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how I lead segments to share.

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Everyone, this is a how I lead episode

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on the Leading Saints podcast, and this is

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where we talk with everyday people who actually

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turn out to be extraordinary

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people

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in callings,

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that maybe a calling that you've even had.

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Right? There's we have a full library of

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these things, how I lead. And so if

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it's not in this episode, it's maybe in

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another one where you can hear somebody speak

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to how they led in your calling. In

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this calling, we're talking today about being bishop.

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We've done a few of those over the

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years. And today, we talk with Golden Lund

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who, was bishop in Iowa.

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Yeah. That's right. We're outside of the Wasatch

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Front, people. This is good good stuff. And,

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man, Lund had quite a a go, at

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being a bishop where in the middle of

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it, he kinda tripped over, sort of some

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mental health struggles. And he talks about that,

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how how he felt and the help he

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got and how he came out of that,

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and it really is inspiring. And I really

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hope if there's there are leaders out there

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who are struggling

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with their mental health that they'll maybe listen

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to this and have the strength to reach

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out and get some help because it doesn't

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have to be this way. Right? These should

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be beautiful,

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exciting, fun callings that, yeah, they're gonna be

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hard. Yeah. They're gonna be stressful, but they

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should be invigorating

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and energetic. And, even, Golden talks about the,

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the Saturday night blues. Right? Sometimes we get

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you know, a lot of people get the

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Sunday night blues, going into a Monday. But,

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man, sometimes

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bishops or leaders out there feel like they

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don't have the strength to go into a

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Sunday, one more Sunday. And so he talks

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about that and, really just being open and

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vulnerable with his ward and sharing his struggles

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that way that really united the ward and

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help other people feel comfortable and open up

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as well. So

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inspiring journey for with Golden. I think you'll

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appreciate it. We recorded this in Zion Lab

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in front of a live studio audience. Well,

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they were online anyways, a live virtual audience.

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And, that way people could ask questions and

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listen in, and, we're doing more and more

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of these. We hope you visit Zion Lab

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and got a and create a free account

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there and join in on the discussion. Go

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ask a a question, the general discussion, and

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and or in one of your the the

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one of the discussion groups related to your

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callings,

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and, you'll be amazed the feedback you get

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and the inspiration that comes from that. So

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that's where we recorded this, and we'll have

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some people, chime in and and with their

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questions as as we go. So here's my

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interview with Golden Lund.

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Alright, Golden. Welcome to the Leading Saints podcast.

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Thank you so much. It's a privilege to

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be here,

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longtime listener,

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and advocate

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for the show.

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Good. I appreciate that. That's awesome. And, how

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how long do you remember how you first

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came aware of became aware of Leading Saints?

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Yeah. Actually, I think it was so I

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listened to,

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the All In podcast with Morgan

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Morgan Jones. Yeah. And I think you did

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an an interview with her, and that's how

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I first learned about Leading Saint. So I

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went to your

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Awesome. Yeah, out to your site and, yeah,

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got hooked right away. So That's great. And

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were you serving as bishop at the time?

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I can't

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it was close around the start or right

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before, but yeah.

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Nice. So And, where is it that you're

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located?

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So it's a town called Bettendorf,

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Iowa. Most people are familiar with Davenport. We're

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right next to Davenport.

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The area I live in is considered the

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Quad Cities.

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We we're right on the Iowa, Illinois border,

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so Bettendorf,

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Davenport, Moline, Rock Island is kind of what

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the Quad Cities is considered. So Yeah. And

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is there a story behind you being called

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as bishop?

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Yeah. So I was called in the,

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in the right at the beginning of COVID.

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So it was interesting. My stake president, the

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stake president at the time,

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was the CEO

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of a, of a major medical network.

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Kind of fortuitous actually that he

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had such a pulse on what was going

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on

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in the hospitals and things. But so he

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called me virtually.

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We'd already been so this was this was,

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like, the 2020.

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We'd already been shut down for about a

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month and a half.

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And then

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then he called me in, like, the yeah.

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The May, and then he said, I think

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we're gonna be going back to church,

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in about a month. Well, it took until

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August 2,

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and then it was sustained over two Sundays

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because,

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you know, we were,

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trying to go downsize how many people were

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in each

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at the chapel. So it was over two

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Sundays that I was sustained.

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And yeah. So I knew for a while

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before I was actually,

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sustained and set apart.

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Yeah. That's awesome. And what do you mean

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what what do you, what do you remember

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from those early

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days? I mean, obviously, it was a different

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time in in history when we're kinda shut

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down, but what, what do you remember as

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far as trying to just get your feet

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under you?

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Well, I remember,

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one of the counselors that I called reached

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out ahead of time and he said, what

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can I do to help? And I said,

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let's just figure out how to get back

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to church safely.

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Yeah. And and peacefully, you know, it was

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it it was starting to get, you know,

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a little bit,

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you know, combatant about how to approach

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the the pandemic. So it was,

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just definitely some

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interesting time to be called as a bishop

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for sure. Yeah. And and so it was

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quite quite a few months after that until

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he actually went back to church. I'm trying

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to remember. It's all, just a blur to

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me, but do you remember getting back into

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it later on? Yeah. So it that when

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I was called is when we started to

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go back.

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So they they they couldn't sustain me until

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we had people to sustain me. They were

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gonna do it virtually.

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So I I guess maybe I'm not sure

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on the question, but,

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but, yeah, we

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so we were it was March when everything

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shut down and then August early August is

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when we went back. And then I do

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remember a period where we stopped again

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maybe towards

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the wintertime

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Mhmm. And then and

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yeah. And then going back. And then and

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then I remember when president Nelson,

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encouraged everyone to mask again, that was, like,

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the 2021.

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That was when things got really

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dicey when it was like we're putting the

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mask back on.

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Yeah. So Yeah. And,

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maybe just give us the the general, like,

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demographics, geographics of your ward, how it's laid

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out, and the unique

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characteristics.

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So,

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I I'd say we have a wide range

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of economic

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demographics.

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Davenport is a is a fairly large city.

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I have parts of Davenport in the ward

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and then parts of Bettendorf.

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And Bettendorf is is a more I'd say,

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it's probably the most affluent

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portion of the Quad Cities.

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So you have, you know, you have a

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wide range

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and and a wide range of economic status.

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You also have a large range of,

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you know, we have a lot of elderly.

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We have

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a good good number of youth. We have

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about

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30 or thirty, thirty five active youth

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and,

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and we also have a fair amount of

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young newlyweds

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as well. So we have a,

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we have a very famous chiropractic school that

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a lot of young

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people come to, Palmer Chiropractic.

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So we get some transient people to come

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here for a few years.

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Yep.

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Are you are you pretty spread out then?

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Is

269
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Well, we're actually actually, the the the missionaries

270
00:10:06,985 --> 00:10:09,304
have told us that our war boundary, our

271
00:10:09,304 --> 00:10:12,184
particular war boundary is the smallest geographical war

272
00:10:12,184 --> 00:10:15,065
boundary in their mission. Oh, wow. So yeah.

273
00:10:15,065 --> 00:10:17,804
It's it's for for Iowa, it's a fairly

274
00:10:17,865 --> 00:10:18,365
small,

275
00:10:19,210 --> 00:10:21,470
geographic area. Mhmm. Yep.

276
00:10:22,009 --> 00:10:24,410
Very cool. Well and I appreciate you reaching

277
00:10:24,410 --> 00:10:26,090
out. I guess it was a few weeks

278
00:10:26,090 --> 00:10:27,850
ago. I and I think more people should

279
00:10:27,850 --> 00:10:29,850
do this. I hope people listening can feel

280
00:10:29,850 --> 00:10:31,664
empowered to do this where you came to

281
00:10:31,664 --> 00:10:33,664
the end of your time, as bishop, and,

282
00:10:33,664 --> 00:10:35,504
obviously, you've learned a few things, and it's

283
00:10:35,504 --> 00:10:37,264
always great to to share what you learned.

284
00:10:37,264 --> 00:10:38,544
So I appreciate you,

285
00:10:38,945 --> 00:10:40,945
leaning in and being willing to to share

286
00:10:40,945 --> 00:10:41,924
some of these concepts.

287
00:10:42,464 --> 00:10:44,324
How how long ago were you released?

288
00:10:45,460 --> 00:10:46,680
I think it's been twelve days.

289
00:10:47,139 --> 00:10:48,680
So two Sundays ago.

290
00:10:49,139 --> 00:10:52,340
Yeah. And, I I'm for the first time

291
00:10:52,340 --> 00:10:52,840
in

292
00:10:53,220 --> 00:10:55,059
over a decade, I'm I'm a free agent,

293
00:10:55,059 --> 00:10:56,660
and I don't have a calling. So it's

294
00:10:56,660 --> 00:10:58,920
very, very strange. Yeah. But

295
00:10:59,705 --> 00:11:01,465
And, how so how long did you serve

296
00:11:01,465 --> 00:11:03,945
then? It was it was pretty close to

297
00:11:03,945 --> 00:11:05,164
right at five years.

298
00:11:05,705 --> 00:11:08,365
So just over five years. Yeah. Cool.

299
00:11:08,745 --> 00:11:09,804
Awesome. Well,

300
00:11:10,504 --> 00:11:12,090
where's a good, you know, just

301
00:11:12,570 --> 00:11:14,250
jumping off point with your as you reflect

302
00:11:14,250 --> 00:11:16,190
on your time as a leader and principles

303
00:11:16,250 --> 00:11:18,350
and, stories or what might

304
00:11:19,210 --> 00:11:20,330
So I guess,

305
00:11:21,769 --> 00:11:23,290
as the first place I wanna go is

306
00:11:23,290 --> 00:11:26,335
just talking I've never really had anyone been

307
00:11:26,335 --> 00:11:28,174
in a situation where everyone kind of does

308
00:11:28,254 --> 00:11:29,315
someone does like

309
00:11:30,014 --> 00:11:32,335
a a rundown of all the things that

310
00:11:32,335 --> 00:11:33,715
are involved with being a bishop.

311
00:11:34,894 --> 00:11:36,595
It would, you know, kind of to

312
00:11:37,054 --> 00:11:38,975
to give some perspective on it, my my

313
00:11:38,975 --> 00:11:40,500
dad my my dad was a bishop, but

314
00:11:40,500 --> 00:11:41,699
before he was a bishop, he was a

315
00:11:41,699 --> 00:11:42,199
counselor

316
00:11:43,220 --> 00:11:44,039
and a bishopric.

317
00:11:44,419 --> 00:11:44,919
And

318
00:11:45,299 --> 00:11:45,959
he said,

319
00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:48,740
before he was after that experience of being

320
00:11:48,740 --> 00:11:50,419
a counselor to a bishop, he thought he

321
00:11:50,419 --> 00:11:52,579
knew what a bishop did. And then when

322
00:11:52,579 --> 00:11:54,634
he was called to be a bishop, he

323
00:11:54,634 --> 00:11:55,855
said, I had no idea

324
00:11:56,235 --> 00:11:57,934
what a bishop actually does.

325
00:11:59,434 --> 00:11:59,934
So,

326
00:12:00,634 --> 00:12:02,254
I just kinda went through the handbook.

327
00:12:03,194 --> 00:12:05,355
You know, so a list of additional meetings

328
00:12:05,355 --> 00:12:05,940
that you're,

329
00:12:06,899 --> 00:12:08,500
that not only supposed to attend, but you're

330
00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:09,960
also planning and conducting,

331
00:12:11,059 --> 00:12:11,559
bishopric,

332
00:12:12,019 --> 00:12:13,799
usually weekly, ward council,

333
00:12:15,299 --> 00:12:17,620
ward youth council, and you have your priest

334
00:12:17,620 --> 00:12:19,254
corps presidency meetings.

335
00:12:20,274 --> 00:12:21,014
You have,

336
00:12:22,434 --> 00:12:24,215
you're the president of the Aaronic priesthood.

337
00:12:24,595 --> 00:12:26,054
You're also the priest quorum

338
00:12:26,514 --> 00:12:27,014
president.

339
00:12:27,634 --> 00:12:29,634
So naturally you're attending all the quorum meetings

340
00:12:29,634 --> 00:12:32,134
and participating in youth activities. You have responsibility

341
00:12:32,274 --> 00:12:33,095
to young women.

342
00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:36,039
You meet with the young women's president regularly.

343
00:12:37,299 --> 00:12:39,539
You also participate in young women meetings, service,

344
00:12:39,539 --> 00:12:40,200
and activities.

345
00:12:41,539 --> 00:12:42,919
Meet with youth annually.

346
00:12:44,019 --> 00:12:45,779
All youth annually and then youth that are

347
00:12:45,779 --> 00:12:47,539
in their sixteenth year, you meet with them

348
00:12:47,539 --> 00:12:48,440
twice a year.

349
00:12:48,764 --> 00:12:50,845
You have a responsibility to the release society

350
00:12:50,845 --> 00:12:52,285
president you're supposed to meet. It says in

351
00:12:52,285 --> 00:12:54,045
the handbook at least monthly with the release

352
00:12:54,045 --> 00:12:54,945
society president.

353
00:12:55,884 --> 00:12:57,485
They also give guidance to the elders corn

354
00:12:57,485 --> 00:12:57,985
president,

355
00:12:58,764 --> 00:13:00,065
and meet with them regularly.

356
00:13:00,684 --> 00:13:03,264
And then you also additionally have every quarter,

357
00:13:03,839 --> 00:13:04,579
a quarterly

358
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,039
meeting with the early study president and the

359
00:13:07,039 --> 00:13:08,500
underscore president to discuss

360
00:13:08,959 --> 00:13:10,019
ministering efforts,

361
00:13:11,279 --> 00:13:13,699
and then you have your individual meetings,

362
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,615
so members who just members who seek spiritual

363
00:13:17,615 --> 00:13:19,695
guidance, those who have way personal problems, these

364
00:13:19,695 --> 00:13:21,855
are these are like phrases exactly from the

365
00:13:21,855 --> 00:13:22,355
handbook.

366
00:13:22,975 --> 00:13:26,095
Those who've committed serious sins, those seeking financial

367
00:13:26,095 --> 00:13:26,595
assistance,

368
00:13:27,695 --> 00:13:29,375
you make decisions about the use of fast

369
00:13:29,375 --> 00:13:30,274
offering funds,

370
00:13:31,470 --> 00:13:32,850
you meet with all the members

371
00:13:33,309 --> 00:13:33,889
to conduct

372
00:13:34,190 --> 00:13:35,169
tiling declarations,

373
00:13:35,870 --> 00:13:38,049
coordinate the work of salvation and exaltation,

374
00:13:38,429 --> 00:13:39,949
and you have your stake meetings, you have

375
00:13:39,949 --> 00:13:41,329
a quarterly meeting with your

376
00:13:42,350 --> 00:13:44,589
with the stake president, you have bishop or

377
00:13:44,589 --> 00:13:46,269
trainings that I think are at least twice

378
00:13:46,269 --> 00:13:46,850
a year,

379
00:13:47,565 --> 00:13:49,125
you have trainings that happen at state conference,

380
00:13:49,125 --> 00:13:50,304
I mean, on and on.

381
00:13:51,965 --> 00:13:53,485
It's a lot it's and and it's I'm

382
00:13:53,485 --> 00:13:55,745
not like like trying to, like,

383
00:13:56,365 --> 00:13:58,865
tout, like, these are all the things that

384
00:13:59,540 --> 00:14:02,019
that I accomplished or did. In fact, some

385
00:14:02,019 --> 00:14:03,480
of them I did very poorly.

386
00:14:03,940 --> 00:14:04,019
But,

387
00:14:05,220 --> 00:14:07,700
it I just wanna lay out the point

388
00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:09,879
that someone serving as a bishop

389
00:14:10,420 --> 00:14:12,899
is nothing short of a miracle and it's

390
00:14:12,899 --> 00:14:13,399
also

391
00:14:14,575 --> 00:14:16,894
important to recognize. And I think a lot

392
00:14:16,894 --> 00:14:18,334
of people do that this is this is

393
00:14:18,334 --> 00:14:18,834
a,

394
00:14:19,855 --> 00:14:21,394
a calling for the entire family.

395
00:14:22,334 --> 00:14:23,315
You know, particularly

396
00:14:23,855 --> 00:14:24,834
my wife who,

397
00:14:26,014 --> 00:14:28,259
who was just she's one of the strongest

398
00:14:28,259 --> 00:14:31,000
women I know, and she never once complained

399
00:14:31,620 --> 00:14:33,940
about anything that I had to do or

400
00:14:33,940 --> 00:14:35,559
be outside the home because of my

401
00:14:35,860 --> 00:14:36,360
calling.

402
00:14:37,139 --> 00:14:37,639
And

403
00:14:38,420 --> 00:14:38,920
so,

404
00:14:39,299 --> 00:14:41,335
but, you know, when you got young kids

405
00:14:41,415 --> 00:14:43,735
I I have I have twins and, boy

406
00:14:43,735 --> 00:14:45,195
girl twins. They were seven

407
00:14:45,575 --> 00:14:47,175
at the time it was called. And at

408
00:14:47,175 --> 00:14:48,695
the time, they still like their dad, you

409
00:14:48,695 --> 00:14:50,615
know, at the and they wanna spend time

410
00:14:50,615 --> 00:14:52,295
with your dad with their dad. And,

411
00:14:55,539 --> 00:14:56,039
but,

412
00:14:56,740 --> 00:14:58,500
I get but and now they're now they're

413
00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:01,879
almost teenagers, and they should sometimes care less.

414
00:15:02,179 --> 00:15:02,679
But,

415
00:15:03,860 --> 00:15:05,299
but the other thing that I bring out

416
00:15:05,460 --> 00:15:06,839
or bring that up is just

417
00:15:07,684 --> 00:15:11,204
to remind people to, you know, go easy.

418
00:15:11,204 --> 00:15:12,424
Go easy on your bishops.

419
00:15:13,125 --> 00:15:14,804
They've got a lot that they're taking on.

420
00:15:14,804 --> 00:15:16,485
And and at any given point, you're also

421
00:15:16,485 --> 00:15:18,345
dealing with some very serious issues,

422
00:15:19,204 --> 00:15:20,105
you know, that

423
00:15:20,429 --> 00:15:22,029
that take a lot of your time, like

424
00:15:22,029 --> 00:15:22,529
divorces,

425
00:15:23,950 --> 00:15:25,730
you know, legal issues,

426
00:15:27,070 --> 00:15:29,330
abuse allegations, you know, it's it's

427
00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:33,424
it's a lot, but but I yeah. So

428
00:15:33,745 --> 00:15:35,424
So early on, did you feel like you

429
00:15:35,424 --> 00:15:37,024
got to a place where you're just really

430
00:15:37,024 --> 00:15:39,044
overdoing it and overwhelmed and

431
00:15:39,345 --> 00:15:39,845
barely,

432
00:15:40,705 --> 00:15:41,764
you know, operating?

433
00:15:43,585 --> 00:15:45,184
So yeah. I mean, yeah. When I first

434
00:15:45,184 --> 00:15:47,345
started, so I I I I kind of,

435
00:15:47,970 --> 00:15:49,589
had some baptism by fire,

436
00:15:50,289 --> 00:15:52,870
with a very messy divorce.

437
00:15:53,970 --> 00:15:55,730
It was a family that actually I had

438
00:15:55,730 --> 00:15:56,870
been ministering to,

439
00:15:58,289 --> 00:15:58,690
and,

440
00:15:59,649 --> 00:16:01,089
but I was also,

441
00:16:02,524 --> 00:16:04,684
so I'm I didn't share this, but I'm

442
00:16:04,684 --> 00:16:06,144
I'm also a a musician,

443
00:16:07,164 --> 00:16:09,825
for my profession. And with so with

444
00:16:10,445 --> 00:16:13,404
with COVID, all performances are being shut down,

445
00:16:13,404 --> 00:16:15,745
and my work is kind of, like,

446
00:16:16,450 --> 00:16:18,709
going here. And so I had the space

447
00:16:19,089 --> 00:16:19,750
to, like,

448
00:16:20,370 --> 00:16:22,610
have the extra time to kinda figure out

449
00:16:22,610 --> 00:16:23,429
being a bishop,

450
00:16:24,450 --> 00:16:25,429
which was a blessing.

451
00:16:27,330 --> 00:16:30,325
So but when I will say I did

452
00:16:30,325 --> 00:16:31,825
have a point,

453
00:16:32,325 --> 00:16:32,644
when

454
00:16:34,084 --> 00:16:35,704
about a about a year and a half

455
00:16:35,764 --> 00:16:38,024
into it that I had

456
00:16:39,365 --> 00:16:41,924
one of the biggest crashes of my life,

457
00:16:41,924 --> 00:16:42,424
actually.

458
00:16:43,860 --> 00:16:44,259
So

459
00:16:44,899 --> 00:16:46,500
So what's what's the story? How did that

460
00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:47,959
happen? So, yeah. So,

461
00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:50,579
so so about a year and I think

462
00:16:50,579 --> 00:16:52,120
it was, like, fourteen months,

463
00:16:52,740 --> 00:16:55,240
we had a big re boundary reorganization.

464
00:16:56,339 --> 00:16:58,500
We went from five wards in the Quad

465
00:16:58,500 --> 00:16:59,559
Cities to four,

466
00:17:00,315 --> 00:17:01,835
So we lost some members, we gained some

467
00:17:01,835 --> 00:17:02,495
new members,

468
00:17:05,115 --> 00:17:06,075
and that I think was

469
00:17:06,634 --> 00:17:08,394
there was more to do with that than

470
00:17:08,394 --> 00:17:11,355
when I first became a bishop. Just everyone's

471
00:17:11,355 --> 00:17:11,855
released.

472
00:17:12,234 --> 00:17:13,134
You had to,

473
00:17:14,180 --> 00:17:16,180
you know, make a make a war from

474
00:17:16,180 --> 00:17:17,000
the ground up.

475
00:17:17,859 --> 00:17:18,359
So,

476
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:20,579
yeah, I remember that first week, I think

477
00:17:20,579 --> 00:17:22,200
our me and my counselors met,

478
00:17:22,819 --> 00:17:25,779
like, three evenings that week to to try

479
00:17:25,779 --> 00:17:28,474
and, you know, just be praying and and

480
00:17:28,474 --> 00:17:30,575
considering who to call us. Presidents

481
00:17:31,355 --> 00:17:32,894
and Relief Society primary,

482
00:17:33,514 --> 00:17:35,855
elders corn president recommendation, you know.

483
00:17:36,954 --> 00:17:38,494
So and at that time,

484
00:17:40,410 --> 00:17:41,150
I also,

485
00:17:41,769 --> 00:17:43,610
things had started to pick back up again

486
00:17:43,610 --> 00:17:44,509
for my career.

487
00:17:45,930 --> 00:17:47,690
And I was so I was we have

488
00:17:47,690 --> 00:17:48,750
two small universities

489
00:17:49,210 --> 00:17:50,110
in the area,

490
00:17:50,890 --> 00:17:51,950
that I was teaching,

491
00:17:53,255 --> 00:17:54,315
adjunct at.

492
00:17:55,255 --> 00:17:56,775
And the work for both of them had

493
00:17:56,775 --> 00:17:59,255
really picked up, and I was basically was

494
00:17:59,255 --> 00:18:00,475
kind of teaching an overload.

495
00:18:01,815 --> 00:18:03,815
And and I was teaching there was one

496
00:18:03,815 --> 00:18:05,495
class I was teaching that was completely outside

497
00:18:05,495 --> 00:18:08,059
my wheelhouse. I was teaching a writing class.

498
00:18:08,599 --> 00:18:09,099
So

499
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:10,619
I

500
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,759
I I need to formally, like, write,

501
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,039
cards of of apologies to the students. But

502
00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:16,539
anyway

503
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:18,220
Yeah.

504
00:18:19,079 --> 00:18:19,400
But,

505
00:18:20,734 --> 00:18:22,414
so it, you know, it was it was

506
00:18:22,414 --> 00:18:24,595
it was exciting. Like, all these opportunities

507
00:18:24,974 --> 00:18:26,575
were coming open for me. Like, the new

508
00:18:26,575 --> 00:18:28,335
award, that was exciting. It was great. And

509
00:18:28,335 --> 00:18:30,095
I and I but I kind of and

510
00:18:30,095 --> 00:18:32,255
and so at the time that all that

511
00:18:32,255 --> 00:18:34,414
was happening, I I had the energy for

512
00:18:34,414 --> 00:18:34,974
it. And then,

513
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:37,080
you know,

514
00:18:37,539 --> 00:18:38,660
then it came around,

515
00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:41,619
after the first after the first of the

516
00:18:41,619 --> 00:18:44,119
years first of the year in 2022,

517
00:18:44,660 --> 00:18:45,320
I just

518
00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:48,259
I just had a major crash and a

519
00:18:48,259 --> 00:18:49,859
major crash of energy. It's kinda if you

520
00:18:49,859 --> 00:18:51,815
if you've ever listened to, I'm I'm sure

521
00:18:51,815 --> 00:18:52,394
you probably

522
00:18:52,775 --> 00:18:54,315
have, Howard Holland's talk,

523
00:18:54,934 --> 00:18:56,875
like a broken vessel. He describes,

524
00:18:58,934 --> 00:19:00,555
he describes kind of that

525
00:19:01,255 --> 00:19:02,934
I can't remember the phrase. He uses a,

526
00:19:02,934 --> 00:19:05,414
you know, a a psychiatric break or something

527
00:19:05,815 --> 00:19:06,615
Mhmm. That,

528
00:19:07,380 --> 00:19:08,980
and I think that was that was similar

529
00:19:08,980 --> 00:19:10,680
to what I I was experiencing,

530
00:19:12,259 --> 00:19:13,720
and I I mean it was just

531
00:19:14,259 --> 00:19:15,480
just getting out of bed

532
00:19:16,259 --> 00:19:18,599
every day was it was just a challenge.

533
00:19:19,380 --> 00:19:21,400
I just had kind of really drained

534
00:19:23,724 --> 00:19:25,544
drained all my reservoirs and,

535
00:19:27,484 --> 00:19:29,025
through this process though,

536
00:19:31,404 --> 00:19:31,904
well,

537
00:19:32,285 --> 00:19:33,964
I guess I don't know what where exactly

538
00:19:33,964 --> 00:19:35,265
I wanna go with this, but,

539
00:19:38,279 --> 00:19:39,960
I I I did, I did remember I

540
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,259
remember going to the stake president who,

541
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:44,920
so this is now a new stake president,

542
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:46,360
the one the one that called me, but

543
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:48,759
he so he was we had the CEO

544
00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:49,259
of

545
00:19:49,559 --> 00:19:50,940
of, of our

546
00:19:51,365 --> 00:19:54,805
major health network, and then the the following

547
00:19:54,805 --> 00:19:56,725
SIG president was called as the CEO of

548
00:19:56,725 --> 00:19:59,785
the mental health network in the area. So,

549
00:20:01,445 --> 00:20:02,585
so that I mean,

550
00:20:02,965 --> 00:20:05,285
that was a really great resource for me

551
00:20:05,285 --> 00:20:06,105
because he,

552
00:20:06,910 --> 00:20:08,289
when I went to him and

553
00:20:09,390 --> 00:20:11,309
and about the struggles, he had some good

554
00:20:11,309 --> 00:20:13,330
recommendations of a counselor for me.

555
00:20:14,589 --> 00:20:14,990
But,

556
00:20:16,269 --> 00:20:18,109
but, yeah, I I remember going to him

557
00:20:18,109 --> 00:20:20,269
and and I asked him for a blessing

558
00:20:20,269 --> 00:20:20,750
and I just

559
00:20:21,484 --> 00:20:22,525
I mean, there was a big part of

560
00:20:22,525 --> 00:20:24,045
me that I just just wanted him to

561
00:20:24,045 --> 00:20:26,365
release me. I just didn't feel like I

562
00:20:26,365 --> 00:20:27,424
could keep going,

563
00:20:27,965 --> 00:20:30,285
and I had the I remember telling you

564
00:20:30,285 --> 00:20:32,384
know, turning to my wife on Saturday nights,

565
00:20:32,525 --> 00:20:34,259
and they talk about the the Sunday night

566
00:20:34,259 --> 00:20:35,859
blues. I had the Saturday night blues. I

567
00:20:35,859 --> 00:20:37,380
was just I like, I don't wanna get

568
00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:38,600
up and be the bishop tomorrow.

569
00:20:39,059 --> 00:20:39,700
Yeah. No.

570
00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:42,440
So,

571
00:20:44,259 --> 00:20:46,519
but, I do remember specifically,

572
00:20:48,115 --> 00:20:50,275
in that blessing that my stake president gave

573
00:20:50,275 --> 00:20:51,575
me, he he said,

574
00:20:54,355 --> 00:20:56,755
that you belong right where you are. You

575
00:20:56,755 --> 00:20:59,174
belong as the Bishop of the Bentendorf Ward,

576
00:21:01,554 --> 00:21:02,694
and you belong

577
00:21:03,450 --> 00:21:05,869
in the career you're in, you know, and

578
00:21:06,490 --> 00:21:06,809
which,

579
00:21:07,849 --> 00:21:09,630
was over time became very reassuring.

580
00:21:10,089 --> 00:21:11,450
It's not real part. Big part of me

581
00:21:11,450 --> 00:21:13,389
didn't wanna hear that at the time, but,

582
00:21:14,569 --> 00:21:15,309
you know,

583
00:21:16,169 --> 00:21:16,909
what I

584
00:21:19,704 --> 00:21:22,284
what I remember sharing after this experience

585
00:21:24,904 --> 00:21:25,644
is how

586
00:21:30,984 --> 00:21:31,484
how

587
00:21:31,944 --> 00:21:33,299
tragic it would have been

588
00:21:33,860 --> 00:21:35,940
for me to not push through because the

589
00:21:35,940 --> 00:21:38,440
experiences I had after that

590
00:21:39,140 --> 00:21:39,960
were some of

591
00:21:40,740 --> 00:21:41,720
the most powerful,

592
00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:43,960
spiritual experiences of my life,

593
00:21:44,980 --> 00:21:46,600
in in my time as bishop.

594
00:21:47,174 --> 00:21:47,414
So

595
00:21:48,535 --> 00:21:51,414
Yeah. So I'm curious, like, was there a

596
00:21:51,414 --> 00:21:54,055
clear, like, time period where that that kinda

597
00:21:54,134 --> 00:21:55,735
that slump lasted? Or

598
00:21:57,414 --> 00:21:57,914
Yeah.

599
00:21:58,455 --> 00:22:00,875
It was kind of strange. It was, like,

600
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:03,919
almost like the the calendar year of 2022.

601
00:22:03,919 --> 00:22:04,579
I remember,

602
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,359
it was around the turn of the the

603
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,819
new year, and what,

604
00:22:09,839 --> 00:22:11,299
of 2023,

605
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:12,659
and what I discovered

606
00:22:14,144 --> 00:22:15,765
about myself is that I

607
00:22:16,225 --> 00:22:16,965
had ADHD.

608
00:22:17,985 --> 00:22:18,485
And,

609
00:22:19,904 --> 00:22:21,825
so I I remember listening you had you

610
00:22:21,825 --> 00:22:23,445
had someone on that was an ADHD,

611
00:22:24,785 --> 00:22:26,545
person. I I I actually reached out to

612
00:22:26,545 --> 00:22:28,065
her after that. I could not remember her

613
00:22:28,065 --> 00:22:29,089
name. But yeah.

614
00:22:29,869 --> 00:22:31,549
So so it's kind of a

615
00:22:32,589 --> 00:22:33,950
in looking back, it's kind of an incident

616
00:22:33,950 --> 00:22:34,450
of,

617
00:22:35,710 --> 00:22:37,869
who shall ever shall lose himself shall find

618
00:22:37,869 --> 00:22:38,369
himself.

619
00:22:39,470 --> 00:22:41,869
That was the way I found myself because

620
00:22:41,869 --> 00:22:44,174
I've had, you know, I struggle with depression

621
00:22:44,394 --> 00:22:45,855
throughout my life, but I

622
00:22:46,475 --> 00:22:47,455
I realized that

623
00:22:47,994 --> 00:22:49,434
I think it's more of an issue of

624
00:22:49,434 --> 00:22:50,255
of my

625
00:22:50,634 --> 00:22:53,515
my brain working so hard at things and

626
00:22:53,515 --> 00:22:55,595
and my body not giving my me the

627
00:22:55,595 --> 00:22:56,815
feedback I need,

628
00:22:57,630 --> 00:22:59,970
when I'm pushing myself too far. And then,

629
00:23:01,309 --> 00:23:03,009
and so it took a while,

630
00:23:04,190 --> 00:23:06,670
to finally actually get someone that actually officially

631
00:23:06,670 --> 00:23:08,590
diagnosed it. As as an adult, it's really

632
00:23:08,590 --> 00:23:11,730
challenging to find someone that that diagnoses adults.

633
00:23:12,085 --> 00:23:14,644
But, but once I did and and got

634
00:23:14,644 --> 00:23:16,664
on medication, like, it really

635
00:23:17,365 --> 00:23:19,285
really helped a lot just and also just

636
00:23:19,285 --> 00:23:21,945
learning about it and creating awareness in myself

637
00:23:22,565 --> 00:23:23,065
of,

638
00:23:24,490 --> 00:23:26,089
you know, things that I need to do

639
00:23:26,089 --> 00:23:28,829
to make sure that that I'm keeping balance.

640
00:23:30,329 --> 00:23:30,829
But,

641
00:23:32,329 --> 00:23:34,409
but yeah. So it was around the turn

642
00:23:34,409 --> 00:23:35,470
turn of that year,

643
00:23:36,089 --> 00:23:37,230
2023.

644
00:23:38,954 --> 00:23:39,454
But,

645
00:23:39,835 --> 00:23:41,554
but then It sounds like it was just

646
00:23:41,554 --> 00:23:43,275
a matter of, like, getting, you know, seeing

647
00:23:43,275 --> 00:23:43,934
the right,

648
00:23:44,474 --> 00:23:46,554
getting in with a counselor, you know, kinda

649
00:23:46,554 --> 00:23:48,154
going down the right path to lead to

650
00:23:48,154 --> 00:23:50,474
a diagnosis and then being able to treat

651
00:23:50,474 --> 00:23:51,134
that diagnosis.

652
00:23:51,869 --> 00:23:52,369
Right.

653
00:23:52,750 --> 00:23:53,569
Yeah. Right.

654
00:23:53,869 --> 00:23:56,109
Yeah. Wait. There was the was there more

655
00:23:56,109 --> 00:23:57,890
to it other than maybe just the medication

656
00:23:57,950 --> 00:23:59,569
or tackling? Like, did you

657
00:24:00,190 --> 00:24:01,490
did did did you,

658
00:24:01,789 --> 00:24:03,630
you know, force yourself to say no to

659
00:24:03,630 --> 00:24:04,690
more things or,

660
00:24:05,470 --> 00:24:07,545
balance your life out in other ways? Or

661
00:24:08,265 --> 00:24:09,164
Yeah. I,

662
00:24:10,664 --> 00:24:12,664
so I shared with my I shared with

663
00:24:12,664 --> 00:24:14,605
my bishop Rick one time

664
00:24:15,625 --> 00:24:17,384
how tough things were for me, and I

665
00:24:17,384 --> 00:24:19,005
got a I got a blessing from

666
00:24:19,940 --> 00:24:21,480
it was my executive secretary

667
00:24:22,099 --> 00:24:23,779
at the time who was a a former

668
00:24:23,779 --> 00:24:24,279
bishop,

669
00:24:25,619 --> 00:24:27,940
and he you know, being a former bishop,

670
00:24:27,940 --> 00:24:28,440
he,

671
00:24:30,660 --> 00:24:31,880
you know, understood

672
00:24:32,565 --> 00:24:33,924
the the the weight he the weight of

673
00:24:33,924 --> 00:24:36,024
it, and and he did more to,

674
00:24:37,365 --> 00:24:38,105
kinda be

675
00:24:39,605 --> 00:24:42,105
a a safeguard of my time, you know.

676
00:24:42,325 --> 00:24:42,825
And

677
00:24:43,204 --> 00:24:44,005
and when I was

678
00:24:45,890 --> 00:24:47,809
he would say he would cut things off

679
00:24:47,809 --> 00:24:49,410
on on a Sunday and say, no. He's

680
00:24:49,410 --> 00:24:50,070
not available

681
00:24:50,450 --> 00:24:51,970
anymore at this time. So he he tried

682
00:24:51,970 --> 00:24:53,430
to monitor things that way.

683
00:24:54,049 --> 00:24:54,789
And I

684
00:24:55,330 --> 00:24:56,230
I did also

685
00:24:58,289 --> 00:24:59,190
it it kind of motivated

686
00:25:00,370 --> 00:25:01,029
me to

687
00:25:01,515 --> 00:25:04,474
to get things more involved to get the

688
00:25:04,474 --> 00:25:06,575
elders quorum president, Relief Society president,

689
00:25:07,914 --> 00:25:08,654
and then

690
00:25:09,115 --> 00:25:10,795
I I don't know when this happened in

691
00:25:10,795 --> 00:25:11,295
in

692
00:25:11,914 --> 00:25:13,934
in this timeline, but I I called the,

693
00:25:14,955 --> 00:25:16,974
temporal welfare specialist that really

694
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:18,200
handled

695
00:25:20,019 --> 00:25:22,419
the the bulk of of the process of,

696
00:25:22,740 --> 00:25:23,960
working with people and

697
00:25:24,740 --> 00:25:26,119
and and getting them assistance.

698
00:25:27,140 --> 00:25:29,380
So, yeah, those were some things that that

699
00:25:29,380 --> 00:25:30,980
I worked hard. And and we did some

700
00:25:30,980 --> 00:25:32,119
things also to

701
00:25:32,904 --> 00:25:34,664
remember we had a fifth Sunday lesson on

702
00:25:34,664 --> 00:25:36,125
just reminding people that

703
00:25:36,424 --> 00:25:39,545
the bishop's primary responsibilities toward the youth and

704
00:25:39,545 --> 00:25:41,724
the rising generation and that there are issues

705
00:25:42,424 --> 00:25:44,664
that are not worthiness issues that can be

706
00:25:44,664 --> 00:25:46,744
taken to the Relief Society president, the elders

707
00:25:46,744 --> 00:25:47,565
quorum president.

708
00:25:48,184 --> 00:25:48,684
So,

709
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,279
yeah. Yeah. And was there anything you did

710
00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:53,460
to help the elders president, the leaders president

711
00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:55,940
sort feel enabled to take those on? Or

712
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,839
or or sometimes people are like, yeah. I

713
00:25:57,839 --> 00:25:59,359
get that that's what I'm supposed to do,

714
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,279
but I just I don't wanna talk to

715
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:01,664
them.

716
00:26:02,705 --> 00:26:03,445
Yeah. Yeah.

717
00:26:04,065 --> 00:26:05,684
Well, I, you know, I

718
00:26:07,184 --> 00:26:07,684
we,

719
00:26:08,305 --> 00:26:11,265
counseled together about kind of a process of

720
00:26:11,265 --> 00:26:13,525
when temporal welfare needs come up,

721
00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:16,980
and some things to communicate to them.

722
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:18,900
I don't know that we always work

723
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:22,339
temporal welfare is just it's a really

724
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:23,380
challenging

725
00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:25,619
you know, you you put on paper,

726
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,035
all the things you're supposed to do, but

727
00:26:28,434 --> 00:26:30,755
usually people with temporal flare issues have so

728
00:26:30,755 --> 00:26:32,835
many other things that they're struggling in their

729
00:26:32,835 --> 00:26:33,575
life and,

730
00:26:34,195 --> 00:26:35,955
makes it difficult to just focus in on

731
00:26:35,955 --> 00:26:37,494
that one thing. But,

732
00:26:38,035 --> 00:26:38,835
you know, we try to

733
00:26:40,339 --> 00:26:42,980
I I I gave them permissions. I I

734
00:26:42,980 --> 00:26:44,820
mean, usually the Relief Society president and Elizrogan

735
00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:47,799
president already have permissions to on the LCR

736
00:26:47,859 --> 00:26:48,359
to,

737
00:26:50,259 --> 00:26:51,880
to put in food orders.

738
00:26:53,525 --> 00:26:54,025
And,

739
00:26:55,044 --> 00:26:55,784
I just,

740
00:26:57,204 --> 00:26:59,284
it was really through the things really started

741
00:26:59,284 --> 00:27:01,204
to work well when I had that temporal

742
00:27:01,204 --> 00:27:02,825
welfare specialist. And actually,

743
00:27:03,365 --> 00:27:04,664
kind of a funny story,

744
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,700
he was he was a elders corn president,

745
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:10,779
for a while, and then he was released,

746
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,680
and he had been involved in some temporal

747
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,759
welfare issues. He shared with me later, and

748
00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:16,680
then his next calling was temporal welfare specialist,

749
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:17,960
and he shared with me later,

750
00:27:18,279 --> 00:27:19,880
when I was released as elders corn president,

751
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,160
I was kinda relieved to not have to

752
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,865
deal with those temporal welfare issues issues anymore.

753
00:27:24,005 --> 00:27:25,205
And then he's and then I got called

754
00:27:25,205 --> 00:27:26,664
into that, and he was kinda like,

755
00:27:27,525 --> 00:27:28,025
really?

756
00:27:28,565 --> 00:27:30,644
But then after several years, he he told

757
00:27:30,644 --> 00:27:32,484
me how much he enjoyed doing it. But

758
00:27:32,484 --> 00:27:34,265
but having him as the point man,

759
00:27:35,445 --> 00:27:38,509
to just to take that that self reliance

760
00:27:38,569 --> 00:27:40,890
plan. And, actually, he took that self reliance

761
00:27:40,890 --> 00:27:41,390
plan

762
00:27:42,089 --> 00:27:42,490
and,

763
00:27:43,529 --> 00:27:44,029
and

764
00:27:44,409 --> 00:27:44,909
made

765
00:27:45,289 --> 00:27:47,230
it more much more detailed.

766
00:27:47,929 --> 00:27:49,470
The one the church puts out

767
00:27:51,445 --> 00:27:53,484
is, I think, broad for a reason because

768
00:27:53,484 --> 00:27:55,744
we're a global church, but he he because

769
00:27:55,884 --> 00:27:57,484
as we do the the the one that

770
00:27:57,484 --> 00:27:59,265
the church had, we'd find out

771
00:27:59,724 --> 00:28:01,404
later after we've been working them, oh, you

772
00:28:01,404 --> 00:28:04,079
have these other expenses? Okay. You know? And

773
00:28:04,079 --> 00:28:05,519
so we we went I mean, he just

774
00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:07,700
put every detail in there, you know,

775
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,460
insurance, car payment,

776
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,179
you know, your

777
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,519
specific utilities, gas, electric, water, all the you

778
00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:17,519
know, all those details because so he and

779
00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:18,500
he would and he,

780
00:28:19,265 --> 00:28:21,284
he had some county background. So,

781
00:28:21,984 --> 00:28:22,644
he was

782
00:28:23,184 --> 00:28:23,684
particularly,

783
00:28:24,544 --> 00:28:25,904
had a niche for that sort of thing.

784
00:28:25,904 --> 00:28:26,404
But,

785
00:28:27,184 --> 00:28:29,184
but, yeah, him handling all of all of

786
00:28:29,184 --> 00:28:31,585
that, and then he would coordinate with, the

787
00:28:31,585 --> 00:28:33,660
release study president and the eligible forum president

788
00:28:33,980 --> 00:28:35,660
on where they could come in. And it

789
00:28:35,660 --> 00:28:37,180
was kind of like a a council we'd

790
00:28:37,180 --> 00:28:38,460
have every once in a while with me

791
00:28:38,460 --> 00:28:40,380
and elder school president, the release study president,

792
00:28:40,380 --> 00:28:41,680
and the temple welfare specialist

793
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:44,779
about how each of us could what each

794
00:28:44,779 --> 00:28:46,880
of our roles were with each individual situation.

795
00:28:47,420 --> 00:28:49,355
Yeah. So And then by the time it

796
00:28:49,355 --> 00:28:51,134
came to you, you were just sort

797
00:28:51,434 --> 00:28:53,794
of taking in recommendations and making a decision?

798
00:28:53,794 --> 00:28:56,474
Or Yeah. Yeah. I counsel with I counsel

799
00:28:56,474 --> 00:28:56,974
with

800
00:28:57,835 --> 00:29:01,194
the the temper welfare specialist about after he

801
00:29:01,194 --> 00:29:03,294
met with someone, and and

802
00:29:03,769 --> 00:29:04,509
and then

803
00:29:04,889 --> 00:29:07,369
we take action from there. It's interesting in

804
00:29:07,369 --> 00:29:08,029
the handbook,

805
00:29:09,529 --> 00:29:10,029
that

806
00:29:10,329 --> 00:29:13,549
in under in whatever the section is titled,

807
00:29:14,730 --> 00:29:17,049
temper welfare issues, it talks about who can

808
00:29:17,049 --> 00:29:17,549
do,

809
00:29:18,325 --> 00:29:19,845
food orders, who can do,

810
00:29:20,404 --> 00:29:22,404
go through a self reliance plan with them,

811
00:29:22,404 --> 00:29:24,725
who and and all of them list the

812
00:29:24,725 --> 00:29:27,125
only thing that the bishop has to do,

813
00:29:27,125 --> 00:29:28,884
this list that he has to do is

814
00:29:28,884 --> 00:29:29,384
approve,

815
00:29:30,164 --> 00:29:32,805
the disbursement of of fast sovereign funds, and

816
00:29:32,805 --> 00:29:34,619
that's it. And that's what I tried to

817
00:29:34,619 --> 00:29:35,119
get

818
00:29:35,580 --> 00:29:37,359
my role to be, to minimize

819
00:29:37,740 --> 00:29:40,380
to. So Yeah. Makes sense. In that regard.

820
00:29:40,380 --> 00:29:43,019
So during this kinda this slump, this tough

821
00:29:43,019 --> 00:29:44,720
time where you had some mental health

822
00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:46,904
issues, I mean, did did you open up

823
00:29:46,904 --> 00:29:48,745
to it more broadly with your ward or

824
00:29:48,745 --> 00:29:49,725
you sketch it?

825
00:29:51,225 --> 00:29:51,725
Eventually,

826
00:29:52,265 --> 00:29:53,325
yes, I did.

827
00:29:55,225 --> 00:29:56,605
So I I think the first

828
00:29:56,985 --> 00:29:58,285
the first more public

829
00:29:59,225 --> 00:30:00,605
place I did it was

830
00:30:01,980 --> 00:30:04,720
was actually at a youth night.

831
00:30:05,179 --> 00:30:06,480
It was kind of a

832
00:30:07,179 --> 00:30:08,779
it it was on a it was on

833
00:30:08,779 --> 00:30:10,419
a weeknight, but it was kind of like

834
00:30:10,419 --> 00:30:13,099
a we had a a fire pit in

835
00:30:13,099 --> 00:30:15,099
the in the church parking lot. It kinda

836
00:30:15,099 --> 00:30:16,964
made it like a fireside, and

837
00:30:18,964 --> 00:30:21,125
and I shared with them, you know, I

838
00:30:21,125 --> 00:30:23,044
I I said I I had had a

839
00:30:23,044 --> 00:30:23,125
recent

840
00:30:24,565 --> 00:30:26,325
it was recently after I had gone to

841
00:30:26,325 --> 00:30:27,304
the stake president,

842
00:30:27,924 --> 00:30:28,424
and

843
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:31,690
and I told them,

844
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:33,750
you know, what what he had told me

845
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:34,490
in the blessing,

846
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:38,470
about how I belonged right where I where

847
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:39,130
I was,

848
00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:41,349
and that I was, you know

849
00:30:42,335 --> 00:30:44,115
well, I guess I started by saying,

850
00:30:44,974 --> 00:30:46,994
when he because he always starts out

851
00:30:47,535 --> 00:30:47,934
his,

852
00:30:49,055 --> 00:30:50,674
his quarterly interviews with,

853
00:30:51,295 --> 00:30:53,075
you know, how are you doing personally?

854
00:30:53,535 --> 00:30:56,429
And that was kind of the only question

855
00:30:56,429 --> 00:30:58,269
we got to on on that picture when

856
00:30:58,269 --> 00:30:59,569
I when I was really struggling.

857
00:31:00,269 --> 00:31:01,549
And I and I told the youth, I

858
00:31:01,549 --> 00:31:03,230
said I told them I'm really struggling right

859
00:31:03,230 --> 00:31:05,409
now. Like, I'm just struggling to

860
00:31:06,429 --> 00:31:07,890
function as a person.

861
00:31:08,589 --> 00:31:09,569
You know, let alone,

862
00:31:10,109 --> 00:31:10,929
you know,

863
00:31:11,524 --> 00:31:13,204
if when I'm struggling as a person, how

864
00:31:13,204 --> 00:31:13,865
can I

865
00:31:14,325 --> 00:31:16,484
then help lift others if I can't even

866
00:31:16,484 --> 00:31:17,865
lift myself up, you know?

867
00:31:19,204 --> 00:31:20,804
And so I kinda use that as a

868
00:31:20,804 --> 00:31:23,524
as as a launching pad to to remind

869
00:31:23,524 --> 00:31:26,404
them that what, you know, they belonged right

870
00:31:26,404 --> 00:31:27,210
where they were

871
00:31:27,690 --> 00:31:28,190
and,

872
00:31:29,210 --> 00:31:31,549
and whatever struggles they're having, like,

873
00:31:32,569 --> 00:31:33,309
doing it

874
00:31:33,690 --> 00:31:35,950
in the context of of having

875
00:31:36,250 --> 00:31:38,269
of of the gospel is always

876
00:31:39,769 --> 00:31:41,149
is always gonna give you

877
00:31:42,644 --> 00:31:44,325
better answers than what the, you know, what

878
00:31:44,325 --> 00:31:46,644
the world has to offer. But Yeah.

879
00:31:48,325 --> 00:31:49,684
But then so it was,

880
00:31:50,724 --> 00:31:51,705
it wasn't until

881
00:31:53,285 --> 00:31:54,664
my this last,

882
00:31:55,445 --> 00:31:56,265
ward conference

883
00:31:56,569 --> 00:31:58,009
the talk that I gave that I really

884
00:31:58,089 --> 00:32:00,089
I opened up to the whole ward about

885
00:32:00,089 --> 00:32:02,269
it and shared shared in my talk about

886
00:32:04,809 --> 00:32:07,309
about that that struggle that I went through,

887
00:32:08,410 --> 00:32:09,150
and how

888
00:32:12,995 --> 00:32:14,355
how the work of the Lord it it

889
00:32:14,355 --> 00:32:16,295
really is the work of the Lord. And

890
00:32:16,835 --> 00:32:17,335
because,

891
00:32:18,995 --> 00:32:21,315
I was not able to function well, but

892
00:32:21,315 --> 00:32:23,414
still the things that were happening,

893
00:32:24,115 --> 00:32:25,414
with the work continued.

894
00:32:26,109 --> 00:32:28,269
I still sent people out, you know, sent

895
00:32:28,269 --> 00:32:30,109
people out on missions, helped send people out

896
00:32:30,109 --> 00:32:31,970
on missions. I still we still,

897
00:32:33,389 --> 00:32:35,470
were able to to meet every Sunday, and

898
00:32:35,470 --> 00:32:37,630
everyone was able to come and and renew

899
00:32:37,630 --> 00:32:39,730
their baptismal covenants. And

900
00:32:42,005 --> 00:32:44,424
and again, like what I shared earlier, just

901
00:32:44,805 --> 00:32:45,945
how working

902
00:32:46,565 --> 00:32:47,305
through that,

903
00:32:48,565 --> 00:32:50,505
you're kind of going from that,

904
00:32:52,005 --> 00:32:53,305
rock bottom place

905
00:32:54,325 --> 00:32:55,865
and sticking with

906
00:32:56,299 --> 00:32:57,579
what the lord had called me to do

907
00:32:57,579 --> 00:33:00,079
and trusting that he would help me

908
00:33:01,019 --> 00:33:02,079
to get through it,

909
00:33:02,460 --> 00:33:03,919
and that I could experience,

910
00:33:06,140 --> 00:33:08,460
again, the joys and the experiences that I

911
00:33:08,460 --> 00:33:09,980
had after that on the once I got

912
00:33:09,980 --> 00:33:11,599
to the other side as a bishop,

913
00:33:14,325 --> 00:33:16,345
I think we're just so much more,

914
00:33:18,884 --> 00:33:19,945
so much more fulfilling

915
00:33:20,404 --> 00:33:20,904
and,

916
00:33:21,285 --> 00:33:23,125
you know, kinda like Alma the younger talks

917
00:33:23,125 --> 00:33:24,904
about when he was in his,

918
00:33:26,529 --> 00:33:28,930
you know, in his repentance process in those

919
00:33:28,930 --> 00:33:31,190
three days of, you know,

920
00:33:32,289 --> 00:33:34,549
that once he caught hold on on,

921
00:33:35,970 --> 00:33:38,130
Christ and focused on Christ that his joy

922
00:33:38,130 --> 00:33:40,549
was ex exquisite as was his pain.

923
00:33:42,464 --> 00:33:42,964
So

924
00:33:43,904 --> 00:33:46,644
Yeah. And I had people yeah. I had

925
00:33:47,424 --> 00:33:47,924
so

926
00:33:48,464 --> 00:33:50,625
and that's that's I guess, you could say

927
00:33:50,625 --> 00:33:53,045
that's kind of a maybe a trademark of

928
00:33:53,664 --> 00:33:55,845
of the way I lead is just to

929
00:33:56,940 --> 00:33:57,679
show vulnerability

930
00:33:58,299 --> 00:33:59,339
and Yeah.

931
00:34:01,099 --> 00:34:03,359
There was one there was one time also

932
00:34:03,419 --> 00:34:04,079
I guess

933
00:34:05,259 --> 00:34:06,779
when I kinda early on when things were

934
00:34:06,779 --> 00:34:08,319
starting to kind of

935
00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:10,460
spiral down the wrong direction, I I wasn't

936
00:34:10,460 --> 00:34:12,320
conducting that SACRA meeting,

937
00:34:14,764 --> 00:34:16,284
but I got up and bore my testimony.

938
00:34:16,284 --> 00:34:17,565
I said, I'm not standing up as your

939
00:34:17,565 --> 00:34:18,924
bishop, I'm standing up as an elder of

940
00:34:18,924 --> 00:34:19,505
the ward,

941
00:34:20,444 --> 00:34:21,664
who just

942
00:34:21,964 --> 00:34:23,585
needs strength right now. And

943
00:34:25,324 --> 00:34:25,824
and

944
00:34:26,284 --> 00:34:26,784
that,

945
00:34:27,244 --> 00:34:28,059
you know, know, I got a lot of

946
00:34:28,059 --> 00:34:29,900
things on my plate that I'm feeling like

947
00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:32,099
I'm not managing well. And and there was

948
00:34:32,099 --> 00:34:34,139
a brother that reached out to me after

949
00:34:34,139 --> 00:34:34,960
that and

950
00:34:36,699 --> 00:34:37,599
and and said,

951
00:34:40,235 --> 00:34:42,235
you know, we it's it's easy to take

952
00:34:42,235 --> 00:34:43,994
for granted all the things that a bishop

953
00:34:43,994 --> 00:34:45,934
does and and thank you for,

954
00:34:46,474 --> 00:34:48,494
you know, sharing that. And

955
00:34:49,914 --> 00:34:50,894
he also just

956
00:34:52,099 --> 00:34:53,940
later in another conversation, he was one of

957
00:34:53,940 --> 00:34:55,800
our young men's advisors. He said, you know,

958
00:34:56,179 --> 00:34:57,800
most of the bishops that I've had

959
00:34:59,380 --> 00:35:01,059
are he used a term I can't repeat,

960
00:35:01,059 --> 00:35:01,559
but

961
00:35:03,059 --> 00:35:05,140
but he said, I've never had some a

962
00:35:05,140 --> 00:35:06,914
leader that that that,

963
00:35:07,454 --> 00:35:09,375
you know, I felt like I could relate

964
00:35:09,375 --> 00:35:10,255
to and that,

965
00:35:11,694 --> 00:35:13,154
and I think that's

966
00:35:13,934 --> 00:35:15,934
generally, as a leader, you wanna appear strong.

967
00:35:15,934 --> 00:35:18,255
You wanna appear like you're you you you

968
00:35:18,255 --> 00:35:20,815
have it all together and that so you

969
00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:24,159
so that people will will feel like

970
00:35:24,619 --> 00:35:27,019
they're confident in trusting you and and following

971
00:35:27,019 --> 00:35:27,519
you.

972
00:35:28,139 --> 00:35:29,760
But I think, you know,

973
00:35:30,699 --> 00:35:31,440
it's really

974
00:35:33,515 --> 00:35:36,474
it's really refreshing for members to to just

975
00:35:36,474 --> 00:35:39,035
be thinking about how their leaders are going

976
00:35:39,035 --> 00:35:41,594
through struggles too, and and they have to

977
00:35:41,594 --> 00:35:42,815
work out their own

978
00:35:43,594 --> 00:35:44,574
issues. And,

979
00:35:45,355 --> 00:35:47,039
and it I think it makes them,

980
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,280
a lot of them more willing to come

981
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,119
and share things with you when they they

982
00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:52,179
know that you understand.

983
00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:55,840
So Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful. Is there any

984
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,599
anything else comes to mind if there if

985
00:35:57,599 --> 00:35:59,840
there's a bishop or a leader listening who's

986
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,160
maybe in in a similar situation? Any other

987
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,488
advice or perspective you'd offer? Sometimes you gotta

988
00:36:06,589 --> 00:36:09,492
be a little selfish. And,

989
00:36:10,193 --> 00:36:11,895
because I remember

990
00:36:12,597 --> 00:36:14,899
so we we alternate,

991
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,639
we have there's two wards that meet in

992
00:36:17,639 --> 00:36:18,860
our building, and,

993
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:20,940
the other ward

994
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:21,739
never

995
00:36:22,519 --> 00:36:24,699
they never wanted to overlap anytime. So

996
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,179
it was so 09:00 and 11:30

997
00:36:28,119 --> 00:36:29,019
were our

998
00:36:29,565 --> 00:36:31,565
two times we change between. And when we

999
00:36:31,565 --> 00:36:32,704
have 09:00 church,

1000
00:36:34,605 --> 00:36:36,144
most of the people on the word council,

1001
00:36:36,684 --> 00:36:38,545
they or especially my my,

1002
00:36:39,405 --> 00:36:41,244
bishop or still wanted to have the meetings

1003
00:36:41,244 --> 00:36:42,304
before church.

1004
00:36:42,684 --> 00:36:44,820
So that was meaning to start at, like,

1005
00:36:45,300 --> 00:36:46,199
06:30.

1006
00:36:47,059 --> 00:36:47,559
And,

1007
00:36:48,820 --> 00:36:51,320
and my wife noticed that,

1008
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:53,940
and and the reasons they said, well, you

1009
00:36:53,940 --> 00:36:56,180
know, in the afternoons after church, then as

1010
00:36:56,180 --> 00:36:57,880
some of our our kids are in presidency

1011
00:36:57,940 --> 00:36:59,714
meetings or they have, you know, it's hard

1012
00:36:59,714 --> 00:37:01,654
to figure out another time after church.

1013
00:37:02,194 --> 00:37:02,594
And,

1014
00:37:03,875 --> 00:37:04,934
and my wife said,

1015
00:37:05,714 --> 00:37:07,434
she told me recently, because we're at a

1016
00:37:07,474 --> 00:37:09,315
we're on the 11:30 right now. She said,

1017
00:37:09,315 --> 00:37:10,375
if you're still bishop,

1018
00:37:10,929 --> 00:37:12,929
when we go to 09:00 church, you need

1019
00:37:12,929 --> 00:37:14,849
to put your foot down and say, what's

1020
00:37:14,849 --> 00:37:16,530
best for my family is that we have

1021
00:37:16,530 --> 00:37:17,750
meetings after church.

1022
00:37:18,769 --> 00:37:19,269
So,

1023
00:37:20,849 --> 00:37:22,949
yeah. I guess I guess you have to

1024
00:37:24,525 --> 00:37:26,924
you have to not just I I'm kind

1025
00:37:26,924 --> 00:37:28,125
of a I'm a little bit of a

1026
00:37:28,125 --> 00:37:30,125
people pleaser, and so I kinda tend to

1027
00:37:30,125 --> 00:37:31,824
go with what the majority

1028
00:37:32,764 --> 00:37:33,724
wants to go with.

1029
00:37:34,284 --> 00:37:34,784
But

1030
00:37:35,085 --> 00:37:36,224
I think in that instance,

1031
00:37:36,684 --> 00:37:38,670
I probably should've. Because, like, it was in

1032
00:37:38,750 --> 00:37:41,070
particularly in those year it was those years

1033
00:37:41,070 --> 00:37:43,230
that were a little bit more difficult for

1034
00:37:43,230 --> 00:37:43,730
me.

1035
00:37:44,670 --> 00:37:46,050
So just just that

1036
00:37:46,589 --> 00:37:48,989
not having that that one morning a week

1037
00:37:48,989 --> 00:37:49,489
to

1038
00:37:50,109 --> 00:37:53,035
to get a little extra rest. So Yeah.

1039
00:37:53,335 --> 00:37:55,575
And there's so many instances where we may

1040
00:37:55,575 --> 00:37:57,175
fit something hard when it doesn't have to

1041
00:37:57,175 --> 00:37:59,175
be hard, but we kinda convince ourselves, like,

1042
00:37:59,175 --> 00:38:00,614
well, I think, you know, it's supposed to

1043
00:38:00,614 --> 00:38:02,055
be hard as a bishop, and this is

1044
00:38:02,055 --> 00:38:04,295
just part of it. Right? But there's nothing

1045
00:38:04,295 --> 00:38:04,775
wrong with,

1046
00:38:05,670 --> 00:38:08,889
bringing common sense or, you know, practice solutions

1047
00:38:09,030 --> 00:38:11,190
in because Right. You're on on you and

1048
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:13,289
others. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

1049
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:14,569
Yeah. That's awesome.

1050
00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:17,510
So you introduced me to this concept of

1051
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:20,469
the Sariah effect or the Sariah factor. Break

1052
00:38:20,469 --> 00:38:21,369
that down, Paris.

1053
00:38:21,885 --> 00:38:22,385
Okay.

1054
00:38:23,565 --> 00:38:24,065
So,

1055
00:38:25,485 --> 00:38:26,925
so I kinda feel a little bad for

1056
00:38:26,925 --> 00:38:27,425
Sariah,

1057
00:38:28,204 --> 00:38:30,844
Sariah, Lehi's wife, because the only kinda specific

1058
00:38:30,844 --> 00:38:32,784
story we have about her is is complaining

1059
00:38:33,324 --> 00:38:34,545
to Lehi about

1060
00:38:35,005 --> 00:38:36,704
him sending his sons to Laban.

1061
00:38:37,619 --> 00:38:39,139
And, you know, it's how it's so it's

1062
00:38:39,139 --> 00:38:40,659
been a while. They send they've sent him

1063
00:38:40,659 --> 00:38:42,599
back to Jerusalem. It's been a while

1064
00:38:43,059 --> 00:38:43,880
since they,

1065
00:38:44,819 --> 00:38:46,900
come back and she's just assuming the worst.

1066
00:38:46,900 --> 00:38:48,119
Right? I mean, she's,

1067
00:38:49,059 --> 00:38:51,625
you know, the mama bear strife strife, I

1068
00:38:51,625 --> 00:38:53,324
can't imagine. Right? And,

1069
00:38:55,304 --> 00:38:57,625
so and then she's she's using like layman

1070
00:38:57,625 --> 00:38:58,204
and lemural

1071
00:38:58,744 --> 00:39:01,324
rhetoric. Right? You're a visionary man. Like,

1072
00:39:02,505 --> 00:39:03,964
and so she's kinda getting,

1073
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,460
the mama bear sad feelings are taking over.

1074
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,359
So she never received the revelation, right, for

1075
00:39:12,359 --> 00:39:13,659
the sons to go back.

1076
00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:16,139
And

1077
00:39:17,815 --> 00:39:19,114
and as a bishop

1078
00:39:20,375 --> 00:39:22,535
and and often and I mean in any,

1079
00:39:24,215 --> 00:39:26,394
I guess, even any president of an organization,

1080
00:39:26,535 --> 00:39:27,675
you have certain,

1081
00:39:29,015 --> 00:39:31,035
you have a certain perspective that others

1082
00:39:31,650 --> 00:39:32,789
won't always see.

1083
00:39:34,049 --> 00:39:36,049
And even when those that,

1084
00:39:37,969 --> 00:39:39,250
even when those that are on your, you

1085
00:39:39,250 --> 00:39:41,829
know, leadership team disagree with you,

1086
00:39:43,329 --> 00:39:44,630
you still need to,

1087
00:39:45,250 --> 00:39:45,889
stick to your

1088
00:39:46,734 --> 00:39:49,554
to what you feel and know is right.

1089
00:39:51,054 --> 00:39:52,574
I'm trying to I don't remember what her

1090
00:39:52,574 --> 00:39:54,574
name was, but I think you interviewed her,

1091
00:39:54,574 --> 00:39:56,474
and I know she was on the,

1092
00:39:57,454 --> 00:39:59,695
follow him podcast with Hank Smith and John,

1093
00:39:59,695 --> 00:40:00,914
by the way. She describes

1094
00:40:01,299 --> 00:40:03,779
this analogy really well of standing on a

1095
00:40:03,779 --> 00:40:04,279
hillside,

1096
00:40:05,460 --> 00:40:06,839
kinda looking up at a hillside,

1097
00:40:07,940 --> 00:40:09,859
at at an elementary school, and there's this

1098
00:40:09,859 --> 00:40:12,179
crosswalk where kids are crossing the street to

1099
00:40:12,179 --> 00:40:13,079
get to the school.

1100
00:40:14,505 --> 00:40:15,885
And so at this crosswalk,

1101
00:40:16,264 --> 00:40:18,904
cars are stopping, and she had this view

1102
00:40:18,904 --> 00:40:21,164
of of these cars that are stopping.

1103
00:40:21,464 --> 00:40:23,464
And there was this one instance when this,

1104
00:40:24,344 --> 00:40:26,105
this girl that's on her bike fell off

1105
00:40:26,105 --> 00:40:27,885
the bike in front of this car,

1106
00:40:29,090 --> 00:40:30,690
and, of course, it takes her a little

1107
00:40:30,690 --> 00:40:32,690
while to get back on, but,

1108
00:40:33,410 --> 00:40:36,070
the car's behind the first the front car,

1109
00:40:36,130 --> 00:40:38,369
so you can see the the people in

1110
00:40:38,369 --> 00:40:40,210
those cars just getting frustrated, like, why aren't

1111
00:40:40,210 --> 00:40:41,269
you moving? Like,

1112
00:40:41,570 --> 00:40:42,469
you move forward.

1113
00:40:42,795 --> 00:40:45,295
And then once they can see the girl

1114
00:40:45,594 --> 00:40:46,574
on on the bike,

1115
00:40:47,275 --> 00:40:49,275
then she sees the reaction of, oh my

1116
00:40:49,275 --> 00:40:50,734
goodness. If, you know,

1117
00:40:51,034 --> 00:40:53,135
I I feel terrible that I wanted to,

1118
00:40:53,434 --> 00:40:55,355
that I was being impatient about that, you

1119
00:40:55,355 --> 00:40:55,855
know.

1120
00:40:56,155 --> 00:40:57,214
And that's a lot,

1121
00:40:59,343 --> 00:41:00,530
a lot like what it is sometimes as

1122
00:41:00,530 --> 00:41:03,430
a bishop because people confide in you certain

1123
00:41:03,489 --> 00:41:05,030
information that you can't

1124
00:41:05,410 --> 00:41:06,550
or you shouldn't share,

1125
00:41:07,650 --> 00:41:09,489
and so you have to move forward with

1126
00:41:09,489 --> 00:41:10,150
the decision

1127
00:41:13,005 --> 00:41:15,244
without telling them really why, you know, and

1128
00:41:15,244 --> 00:41:17,025
that can be that can be a challenge.

1129
00:41:17,964 --> 00:41:19,585
So I guess to give you

1130
00:41:19,885 --> 00:41:20,625
one example,

1131
00:41:22,045 --> 00:41:24,864
so I refer to the boundary reorganization

1132
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:27,260
a few years back,

1133
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:28,380
and

1134
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:30,119
in that,

1135
00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:31,660
boundary change, we

1136
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:33,420
acquired

1137
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:34,539
a neighborhood

1138
00:41:35,079 --> 00:41:36,619
that was for

1139
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,140
for Iowa. It had pretty dense LDS population.

1140
00:41:40,805 --> 00:41:42,585
You know, I think everyone in the neighborhood

1141
00:41:42,805 --> 00:41:45,045
there's at least half a dozen families in

1142
00:41:45,045 --> 00:41:46,184
that neighborhood that

1143
00:41:46,565 --> 00:41:48,164
were all, like, half a mile from each

1144
00:41:48,164 --> 00:41:49,845
other. And so they were they were pretty

1145
00:41:49,845 --> 00:41:51,525
close. And I I knew some of them

1146
00:41:51,525 --> 00:41:52,025
from,

1147
00:41:52,325 --> 00:41:52,985
you know,

1148
00:41:53,650 --> 00:41:55,170
stake events and things, but I didn't know

1149
00:41:55,170 --> 00:41:55,909
all of them.

1150
00:41:56,210 --> 00:41:59,190
And there was one couple in particular that,

1151
00:42:00,289 --> 00:42:02,449
that shortly after I became their bishop, I

1152
00:42:02,610 --> 00:42:03,110
they,

1153
00:42:04,050 --> 00:42:06,130
shared that they were having some some marriage

1154
00:42:06,130 --> 00:42:06,630
struggles.

1155
00:42:07,324 --> 00:42:07,804
And,

1156
00:42:08,284 --> 00:42:09,424
so I started meeting

1157
00:42:09,885 --> 00:42:11,264
with each of them individually

1158
00:42:12,844 --> 00:42:13,344
and,

1159
00:42:14,284 --> 00:42:16,284
you know, we put them on our prayer

1160
00:42:16,284 --> 00:42:17,904
role and more counsel and

1161
00:42:18,605 --> 00:42:20,385
but as as time goes on,

1162
00:42:22,019 --> 00:42:23,320
and this sadly

1163
00:42:23,860 --> 00:42:26,119
precipitated into a separation and divorce,

1164
00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:29,140
but as time goes on, I'm realizing that

1165
00:42:29,140 --> 00:42:31,300
that people in this neighborhood have formed their

1166
00:42:31,380 --> 00:42:33,320
kind of formed their opinions about,

1167
00:42:35,494 --> 00:42:37,594
who's more in the right, who's, you know,

1168
00:42:38,775 --> 00:42:39,994
who's not. And,

1169
00:42:42,775 --> 00:42:44,535
and without having that knowledge and just meeting

1170
00:42:44,535 --> 00:42:46,535
with them one on one, I'm getting my

1171
00:42:46,535 --> 00:42:48,155
own impressions that are different

1172
00:42:48,590 --> 00:42:50,750
from what what their where their opinions are.

1173
00:42:50,750 --> 00:42:51,250
And,

1174
00:42:53,070 --> 00:42:55,010
so having this incongruent incongruence,

1175
00:42:56,110 --> 00:42:57,949
I I talked to some of these and,

1176
00:42:57,949 --> 00:42:58,449
like,

1177
00:42:58,829 --> 00:43:00,769
you know, three or four of

1178
00:43:01,275 --> 00:43:03,034
these families that live in this neighborhood are

1179
00:43:03,034 --> 00:43:05,034
on my work council. And so I'm trying

1180
00:43:05,034 --> 00:43:06,795
to find I I talked to them individually

1181
00:43:06,795 --> 00:43:08,894
trying to find out some more background information,

1182
00:43:09,835 --> 00:43:10,974
still feeling like

1183
00:43:11,514 --> 00:43:12,655
their their opinion

1184
00:43:13,329 --> 00:43:15,170
or the way they feel about it is

1185
00:43:15,170 --> 00:43:17,250
not the right way to look at it.

1186
00:43:17,730 --> 00:43:19,670
And and I remember talking to

1187
00:43:20,049 --> 00:43:22,049
another friend who was not in the ward

1188
00:43:22,049 --> 00:43:24,309
but knew the sister very well.

1189
00:43:24,849 --> 00:43:26,530
And I said, this is I'm getting all

1190
00:43:26,530 --> 00:43:27,269
this feedback

1191
00:43:28,005 --> 00:43:28,505
about

1192
00:43:29,125 --> 00:43:31,784
the brother and seems like people are,

1193
00:43:32,804 --> 00:43:34,824
kinda siding with him and

1194
00:43:35,525 --> 00:43:37,605
but, you know, I feel differently. She said,

1195
00:43:37,605 --> 00:43:38,984
well, you're the bishop.

1196
00:43:39,364 --> 00:43:40,984
Like, you are entitled to that

1197
00:43:42,250 --> 00:43:44,030
to that perspective and discernment.

1198
00:43:44,809 --> 00:43:46,349
And so I actually,

1199
00:43:47,530 --> 00:43:49,610
and it it it ended up that the

1200
00:43:49,610 --> 00:43:52,090
the the brother, when they separated, he moved

1201
00:43:52,090 --> 00:43:53,070
to a different area,

1202
00:43:54,344 --> 00:43:56,344
but it still felt like people were he

1203
00:43:56,344 --> 00:43:57,005
was still

1204
00:43:57,864 --> 00:44:00,284
contacting members of the ward, kind of,

1205
00:44:01,545 --> 00:44:02,364
he kind of

1206
00:44:03,065 --> 00:44:04,125
gotten them to,

1207
00:44:04,744 --> 00:44:07,385
appeal to his side. And I in ward

1208
00:44:07,385 --> 00:44:09,304
council, I said I've I've done a lot

1209
00:44:09,304 --> 00:44:11,890
of praying about this. I've met with both

1210
00:44:11,890 --> 00:44:12,469
of them.

1211
00:44:13,090 --> 00:44:15,010
The sister is now in our ward. We

1212
00:44:15,010 --> 00:44:16,550
need to fully support her.

1213
00:44:17,730 --> 00:44:18,230
And

1214
00:44:18,769 --> 00:44:19,269
so

1215
00:44:20,130 --> 00:44:22,390
so that's just that that's just one example

1216
00:44:25,025 --> 00:44:27,184
of and and I actually have an example

1217
00:44:27,184 --> 00:44:28,565
of being on the other side

1218
00:44:29,424 --> 00:44:29,924
where,

1219
00:44:31,105 --> 00:44:32,164
we had a,

1220
00:44:34,065 --> 00:44:35,045
we had a family

1221
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,539
that was in a neighboring ward

1222
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,780
that wanted to move into our ward.

1223
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,420
It was kind of awkward because,

1224
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,039
the brother was a counselor to the bishop

1225
00:44:47,039 --> 00:44:47,940
of that ward,

1226
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:48,739
and

1227
00:44:50,534 --> 00:44:52,135
and their daughter so the and this was

1228
00:44:52,135 --> 00:44:54,234
about six months after that boundary change,

1229
00:44:55,734 --> 00:44:56,234
and,

1230
00:44:57,655 --> 00:44:58,974
so they had gone to the stake president

1231
00:44:58,974 --> 00:45:00,375
and said we'd really like to go to

1232
00:45:00,375 --> 00:45:01,894
the Bendorf Ward. Our daughter has a lot

1233
00:45:01,894 --> 00:45:02,849
of friends in this ward.

1234
00:45:03,329 --> 00:45:06,150
She's really struggling in the current ward, and

1235
00:45:06,690 --> 00:45:07,910
I was feeling like

1236
00:45:08,210 --> 00:45:10,130
what kind of precedent are we setting if

1237
00:45:10,130 --> 00:45:12,050
if people can just kind of choose wards

1238
00:45:12,050 --> 00:45:13,750
and ward hop and things like that.

1239
00:45:14,864 --> 00:45:17,664
I remember, I mean, my my counselors could

1240
00:45:17,664 --> 00:45:19,764
feel similarly, but the state president,

1241
00:45:20,385 --> 00:45:22,224
he hold he held holds the keys for

1242
00:45:22,224 --> 00:45:25,025
that. And he as he met with the

1243
00:45:25,025 --> 00:45:26,704
family and they prayed about it together and

1244
00:45:26,704 --> 00:45:28,164
he put in did the official

1245
00:45:29,319 --> 00:45:30,699
submission to the first presidency.

1246
00:45:31,159 --> 00:45:32,859
They ended up coming to our ward.

1247
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:34,219
So,

1248
00:45:36,359 --> 00:45:38,539
that family actually moved recently

1249
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:39,659
and then

1250
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,039
just just a few weeks before I was

1251
00:45:42,039 --> 00:45:42,539
released

1252
00:45:46,045 --> 00:45:46,605
and he,

1253
00:45:48,684 --> 00:45:49,824
he sent a note

1254
00:45:51,724 --> 00:45:52,224
after

1255
00:45:52,924 --> 00:45:54,284
when he found out I had been released,

1256
00:45:54,284 --> 00:45:55,344
and I'll just share.

1257
00:45:56,639 --> 00:45:58,800
He said, hi, bishop. This is so and

1258
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,639
so. I heard that you were just released.

1259
00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:01,920
I wanted to let you know that you

1260
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,380
were an incredible bishop.

1261
00:46:03,679 --> 00:46:05,760
I'm so grateful for the sacrifice you and

1262
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,440
your family made on behalf of us board

1263
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:07,940
members.

1264
00:46:08,315 --> 00:46:10,155
You clearly were following the spirit. One of

1265
00:46:10,155 --> 00:46:11,914
the primary reasons we asked to have our

1266
00:46:11,914 --> 00:46:14,075
records moved in the Bendorf Ward was was

1267
00:46:14,075 --> 00:46:14,815
for Annie.

1268
00:46:15,595 --> 00:46:17,675
She was struggling in her testimony, had no

1269
00:46:17,675 --> 00:46:20,075
friends at church, and she was showing signs

1270
00:46:20,075 --> 00:46:22,280
she wanted to, nothing to do with the

1271
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:22,780
church.

1272
00:46:23,559 --> 00:46:25,239
There were a number of miracles that took

1273
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:26,780
place along the way.

1274
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,639
One of them was sister Layton and the

1275
00:46:29,639 --> 00:46:32,199
new young woman presidency being called. Annie grew

1276
00:46:32,199 --> 00:46:34,214
so close to those women and over the

1277
00:46:34,214 --> 00:46:36,714
last three years has developed a strong testimony

1278
00:46:36,775 --> 00:46:38,855
and is now in a totally different place

1279
00:46:38,855 --> 00:46:39,994
facing a new ward.

1280
00:46:40,534 --> 00:46:42,214
She now has a strong desire to serve

1281
00:46:42,214 --> 00:46:42,875
her mission.

1282
00:46:45,494 --> 00:46:45,994
So

1283
00:46:48,179 --> 00:46:48,679
Revelation

1284
00:46:49,059 --> 00:46:51,539
is messy. It it can it feels messy

1285
00:46:51,539 --> 00:46:54,119
at the time, and that situation felt,

1286
00:46:55,860 --> 00:46:57,619
a little messy and and it was something

1287
00:46:57,619 --> 00:47:00,840
that I hadn't gotten confirmation on, that they

1288
00:47:01,300 --> 00:47:02,679
should I mean,

1289
00:47:03,324 --> 00:47:06,125
most bishops will welcome whoever into the ward.

1290
00:47:06,125 --> 00:47:08,765
Right? But but, I was worried that this

1291
00:47:08,765 --> 00:47:10,285
is gonna set a precedent. Are people gonna

1292
00:47:10,285 --> 00:47:11,644
start moving out of my work because they

1293
00:47:11,644 --> 00:47:13,425
like a different war better? And, you know,

1294
00:47:14,525 --> 00:47:16,465
but it clearly and and

1295
00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:18,920
and my reply to him was,

1296
00:47:19,619 --> 00:47:21,460
you know, that it's hard to tell on

1297
00:47:21,460 --> 00:47:22,360
a lot of youth

1298
00:47:23,059 --> 00:47:25,239
what sort of difference you're making and and

1299
00:47:25,380 --> 00:47:26,519
if what

1300
00:47:26,980 --> 00:47:28,360
what they're taking in.

1301
00:47:28,739 --> 00:47:30,599
But with Annie, it was,

1302
00:47:31,535 --> 00:47:33,715
it was clear she of her growth,

1303
00:47:34,335 --> 00:47:37,135
and it was always clear that her testimony

1304
00:47:37,135 --> 00:47:39,695
was growing and she had really changed from

1305
00:47:39,695 --> 00:47:42,114
the time they moved in to when they

1306
00:47:42,655 --> 00:47:43,715
they moved out.

1307
00:47:45,849 --> 00:47:46,349
Incidentally,

1308
00:47:46,650 --> 00:47:48,989
that young women that young women president

1309
00:47:50,170 --> 00:47:50,670
was

1310
00:47:50,969 --> 00:47:52,190
by far the longest

1311
00:47:52,569 --> 00:47:53,869
it took us to

1312
00:47:54,170 --> 00:47:55,710
to get an answer on.

1313
00:47:57,130 --> 00:47:57,630
So,

1314
00:47:59,585 --> 00:48:00,484
in that situation,

1315
00:48:01,904 --> 00:48:04,484
we've been working for months considering someone,

1316
00:48:05,424 --> 00:48:07,525
and just there were a few names that

1317
00:48:07,744 --> 00:48:08,484
they felt,

1318
00:48:09,025 --> 00:48:11,664
yeah, that person can do it, but just

1319
00:48:11,664 --> 00:48:13,204
not feeling a confirmation.

1320
00:48:13,664 --> 00:48:14,164
And

1321
00:48:14,679 --> 00:48:15,500
so we

1322
00:48:15,839 --> 00:48:16,339
finally,

1323
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,800
started looking someplace we hadn't looked because we

1324
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,579
had recently called a new

1325
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:22,860
primary presidency.

1326
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:24,460
And

1327
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,000
so we just those those sisters were off

1328
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:28,539
the table. They, you know, they

1329
00:48:29,255 --> 00:48:30,635
were new in their presidency.

1330
00:48:32,454 --> 00:48:32,954
And

1331
00:48:33,414 --> 00:48:35,094
when we started to look at one of

1332
00:48:35,094 --> 00:48:36,315
those presidency members,

1333
00:48:37,894 --> 00:48:38,394
we

1334
00:48:39,494 --> 00:48:41,414
then it then and pray about them that

1335
00:48:41,414 --> 00:48:43,280
it became then it became clear.

1336
00:48:44,059 --> 00:48:46,300
So it's just interesting that, you know, that's

1337
00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:48,539
where that's what he pointed to was that,

1338
00:48:48,539 --> 00:48:50,619
you know, woman's president who it took us

1339
00:48:50,619 --> 00:48:52,480
a long time to get that

1340
00:48:52,860 --> 00:48:54,880
the revelation on that. And,

1341
00:48:55,585 --> 00:48:58,305
and the primary president was not was not

1342
00:48:58,305 --> 00:49:00,224
initially very happy about it either losing that

1343
00:49:00,224 --> 00:49:03,285
counselor, but it but I do remember her,

1344
00:49:05,025 --> 00:49:05,985
saying that she

1345
00:49:06,704 --> 00:49:08,269
and and it was one of those situations

1346
00:49:08,269 --> 00:49:08,769
where,

1347
00:49:09,070 --> 00:49:10,829
you know, you don't just wanna say, okay,

1348
00:49:10,829 --> 00:49:12,610
we're taking this person from you,

1349
00:49:13,469 --> 00:49:15,070
and you just gotta deal with it. You

1350
00:49:15,070 --> 00:49:17,389
know, I wanted we counseled with the primary

1351
00:49:17,389 --> 00:49:19,489
president and said, this is what we're feeling,

1352
00:49:20,429 --> 00:49:21,250
and how,

1353
00:49:21,675 --> 00:49:23,855
you know, is this something you can support?

1354
00:49:24,394 --> 00:49:26,094
And initially, she was just like,

1355
00:49:27,035 --> 00:49:28,555
I can't think of anyone that I wanna

1356
00:49:28,555 --> 00:49:30,074
replace this person with. This is the only

1357
00:49:30,074 --> 00:49:32,255
person I want in this in this position.

1358
00:49:32,315 --> 00:49:34,555
And, but then as she prayed about it,

1359
00:49:34,555 --> 00:49:36,329
we gave her time to pray about it,

1360
00:49:36,329 --> 00:49:38,190
and she said she went from praying

1361
00:49:38,890 --> 00:49:41,390
about just the idea of whether she should,

1362
00:49:42,730 --> 00:49:44,590
that because she can feel good about

1363
00:49:44,970 --> 00:49:47,470
releasing this person to praying for her

1364
00:49:48,250 --> 00:49:49,150
in her,

1365
00:49:49,674 --> 00:49:51,434
to prepare her for her calling as young

1366
00:49:51,434 --> 00:49:52,255
women's president.

1367
00:49:53,034 --> 00:49:53,355
So

1368
00:49:53,914 --> 00:49:56,474
Yeah. I love that. Okay. And so going

1369
00:49:56,474 --> 00:49:58,474
back to the the Sariah factor, I mean,

1370
00:49:58,474 --> 00:49:59,135
that's just

1371
00:49:59,755 --> 00:50:01,835
just going to a place real recognizing you

1372
00:50:01,835 --> 00:50:03,054
don't have all the information

1373
00:50:03,849 --> 00:50:05,530
even though you wanna maybe make a call

1374
00:50:05,530 --> 00:50:07,789
or a judgment on something happening.

1375
00:50:08,250 --> 00:50:10,569
It's or maybe give it time and and

1376
00:50:10,569 --> 00:50:11,069
usually

1377
00:50:11,369 --> 00:50:13,389
other things will come to the surface or

1378
00:50:13,530 --> 00:50:15,929
others with all the information will make the

1379
00:50:15,929 --> 00:50:17,710
best decision with all things considered.

1380
00:50:18,569 --> 00:50:20,864
Yeah. And that it's okay to feel like

1381
00:50:20,864 --> 00:50:21,605
you disagree

1382
00:50:22,465 --> 00:50:23,364
with the decision

1383
00:50:23,744 --> 00:50:25,824
Yeah. You know, of of your of the

1384
00:50:25,824 --> 00:50:26,804
leader that

1385
00:50:28,224 --> 00:50:29,605
that holds keys and

1386
00:50:30,465 --> 00:50:32,945
holds the authority and has the perspective and

1387
00:50:32,945 --> 00:50:34,005
just have to, you

1388
00:50:34,385 --> 00:50:34,625
know

1389
00:50:35,184 --> 00:50:36,320
Yeah. For

1390
00:50:36,700 --> 00:50:39,019
sure. Very good. Well, Golden, this has been

1391
00:50:39,019 --> 00:50:40,000
this has been awesome.

1392
00:50:40,700 --> 00:50:41,760
Just think there is

1393
00:50:43,340 --> 00:50:43,840
Jared,

1394
00:50:44,619 --> 00:50:47,019
said here, you know, god bless you, Golden,

1395
00:50:47,019 --> 00:50:49,579
for the only faith he says, the only

1396
00:50:49,579 --> 00:50:51,795
faith crisis I've had was in the dark

1397
00:50:51,795 --> 00:50:52,934
night of the soul

1398
00:50:53,394 --> 00:50:54,855
rock bottom place serving

1399
00:50:55,155 --> 00:50:57,795
as bishop. And so there's others that kinda

1400
00:50:57,795 --> 00:50:59,714
just go through a lot. Right? Right. Even

1401
00:50:59,714 --> 00:51:02,775
during these times where and, unfortunately, sometimes our

1402
00:51:03,010 --> 00:51:05,489
culture wants to frame them as, oh, you

1403
00:51:05,489 --> 00:51:07,250
know, you're so blessed during this time and

1404
00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:09,250
every you know, the blessings are obvious, which,

1405
00:51:09,250 --> 00:51:10,550
you know, sure that happens.

1406
00:51:11,090 --> 00:51:11,489
But,

1407
00:51:11,970 --> 00:51:14,210
sometimes it's just hard. Sometimes it's rough. You

1408
00:51:14,210 --> 00:51:14,710
know?

1409
00:51:15,114 --> 00:51:16,094
And, that's

1410
00:51:16,635 --> 00:51:18,394
I I that's something we should normalize more

1411
00:51:18,394 --> 00:51:19,614
often. You know? Right.

1412
00:51:20,075 --> 00:51:20,575
I,

1413
00:51:21,675 --> 00:51:22,974
I remember Kirby Hayborne's,

1414
00:51:23,755 --> 00:51:24,255
interview.

1415
00:51:24,635 --> 00:51:26,414
Uh-huh. And he talked about

1416
00:51:27,050 --> 00:51:28,650
I remember him saying, oh, it's just so

1417
00:51:28,650 --> 00:51:30,730
wonderful. You know, you go visit with people

1418
00:51:30,730 --> 00:51:33,050
and you you you connect with them and

1419
00:51:33,050 --> 00:51:34,489
and you cry with them and then you

1420
00:51:34,489 --> 00:51:35,150
come home

1421
00:51:35,530 --> 00:51:37,130
to your wife and you tell her about

1422
00:51:37,130 --> 00:51:39,369
it and you cry together. And and I'm

1423
00:51:39,369 --> 00:51:39,869
thinking,

1424
00:51:40,175 --> 00:51:42,494
no. When I come home from a spiritual

1425
00:51:42,494 --> 00:51:44,014
experience, then my wife I come home to

1426
00:51:44,014 --> 00:51:45,695
my wife telling me, like, do you know

1427
00:51:45,695 --> 00:51:47,215
what your son did today? And blah, you

1428
00:51:47,215 --> 00:51:47,715
know.

1429
00:51:48,414 --> 00:51:48,914
Yes.

1430
00:51:50,094 --> 00:51:51,775
So and you experience a lot of this

1431
00:51:51,775 --> 00:51:52,969
kind of, like, whiplash.

1432
00:51:53,349 --> 00:51:54,869
You know? Like, you have might have a

1433
00:51:54,869 --> 00:51:56,710
great spiritual experience, and then you come home

1434
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:58,630
and and then you're, like, feeling guilty because

1435
00:51:58,630 --> 00:52:00,630
there's been struggles at home, and you're not

1436
00:52:00,630 --> 00:52:02,409
there to to help and you know?

1437
00:52:02,789 --> 00:52:03,769
So it's

1438
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:05,609
definitely a

1439
00:52:06,744 --> 00:52:08,364
a tug of war with your heart sometimes.

1440
00:52:08,505 --> 00:52:10,824
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, this has this

1441
00:52:10,824 --> 00:52:11,644
has been great.

1442
00:52:13,784 --> 00:52:16,184
Bryce says, thanks for sharing, Golden. Hearing these

1443
00:52:16,184 --> 00:52:17,864
stories makes me want to tell my bishop

1444
00:52:17,864 --> 00:52:19,704
how great he is doing. It's true that

1445
00:52:19,704 --> 00:52:21,789
it's easy to overlook all that that's happening

1446
00:52:21,789 --> 00:52:24,029
from our church leaders. And I'll tell you

1447
00:52:24,029 --> 00:52:24,929
what, there's nothing

1448
00:52:25,230 --> 00:52:28,029
more powerful, you know, than just a simple

1449
00:52:28,029 --> 00:52:30,349
text message from a member who's just recognizing

1450
00:52:30,349 --> 00:52:31,569
the most simple things

1451
00:52:31,949 --> 00:52:33,630
and, you know, giving you a moment of

1452
00:52:33,630 --> 00:52:35,469
appreciation. And so, yeah, I think we should

1453
00:52:35,469 --> 00:52:37,964
all make that that goal to reach out

1454
00:52:37,964 --> 00:52:40,045
to our bishops or really study presidents or

1455
00:52:40,045 --> 00:52:41,405
whomever and just say, hey. Thanks. I don't

1456
00:52:41,405 --> 00:52:43,085
know what you you've been going through this

1457
00:52:43,085 --> 00:52:44,844
week, but I'm sure it wasn't,

1458
00:52:45,644 --> 00:52:46,144
easy.

1459
00:52:46,924 --> 00:52:50,750
Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Awesome. Well, Golden, last

1460
00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:52,269
question I have for you is as you

1461
00:52:52,269 --> 00:52:54,269
reflect now that, you know, just being released,

1462
00:52:54,269 --> 00:52:56,110
you reflect on those five years being a

1463
00:52:56,110 --> 00:52:58,190
bishop and a leader. How has being a

1464
00:52:58,190 --> 00:53:00,030
leader helped you become a better follower of

1465
00:53:00,030 --> 00:53:00,849
Jesus Christ?

1466
00:53:03,785 --> 00:53:05,164
It's been great to have

1467
00:53:05,785 --> 00:53:08,265
some time to reflect, kind of see the

1468
00:53:08,265 --> 00:53:09,644
forest from the trees.

1469
00:53:11,864 --> 00:53:12,925
If people ask

1470
00:53:13,385 --> 00:53:15,644
ask me if, you know, I feel lighter

1471
00:53:16,184 --> 00:53:17,244
since I've been released,

1472
00:53:18,469 --> 00:53:19,829
I don't know that that's what I feel,

1473
00:53:19,829 --> 00:53:20,869
but what I do know is I have

1474
00:53:20,869 --> 00:53:22,809
less mental traffic in my mind.

1475
00:53:23,429 --> 00:53:23,929
But

1476
00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:25,769
I'm so I've

1477
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:27,769
been able to,

1478
00:53:29,429 --> 00:53:30,969
I guess, see why

1479
00:53:31,535 --> 00:53:33,474
I've been doing what I've been doing.

1480
00:53:34,735 --> 00:53:36,434
And, you know, for so long

1481
00:53:37,055 --> 00:53:37,954
growing up,

1482
00:53:39,775 --> 00:53:41,635
I kind of looked at my,

1483
00:53:42,255 --> 00:53:42,835
I guess,

1484
00:53:43,630 --> 00:53:45,389
keeping the commandments and and doing what I

1485
00:53:45,389 --> 00:53:46,989
felt the lord want me to do was

1486
00:53:46,989 --> 00:53:48,989
was so I could get what I wanted

1487
00:53:48,989 --> 00:53:50,590
out of life. And not that I had

1488
00:53:50,590 --> 00:53:53,389
anything that was unrighteous, but I had certain

1489
00:53:53,389 --> 00:53:55,150
things that I I thought was

1490
00:53:55,914 --> 00:53:57,275
I wanted to do with my life and

1491
00:53:57,275 --> 00:53:58,795
and it was kind of this equation thing.

1492
00:53:58,795 --> 00:54:01,054
I think it's fairly normal, but,

1493
00:54:01,994 --> 00:54:03,534
you know, as a bishop, I

1494
00:54:03,835 --> 00:54:05,614
I feel like I came to a point

1495
00:54:05,835 --> 00:54:06,335
where,

1496
00:54:08,639 --> 00:54:10,880
doing what I knew was right wasn't a

1497
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,139
means to an end. It is the end.

1498
00:54:14,159 --> 00:54:14,659
And

1499
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:15,940
that

1500
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,799
there's nothing that has brought me more joy

1501
00:54:18,799 --> 00:54:19,299
than

1502
00:54:19,599 --> 00:54:21,940
in helping bring people to Christ

1503
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:23,059
and to

1504
00:54:23,394 --> 00:54:25,095
help build the kingdom of God

1505
00:54:26,114 --> 00:54:28,215
on the earth and to help prepare

1506
00:54:28,515 --> 00:54:29,894
the world for,

1507
00:54:30,675 --> 00:54:32,215
his return to the earth.

1508
00:54:33,155 --> 00:54:33,655
So

1509
00:54:36,849 --> 00:54:38,389
coming to that place where,

1510
00:54:40,849 --> 00:54:42,550
I used to feel like that that,

1511
00:54:44,690 --> 00:54:46,690
I guess, church things were an obligation and

1512
00:54:46,690 --> 00:54:49,489
sometimes a distraction from other, like, career pursuits

1513
00:54:49,489 --> 00:54:50,150
and things.

1514
00:54:50,449 --> 00:54:50,949
But

1515
00:54:51,664 --> 00:54:53,764
really all that I that that I

1516
00:54:55,184 --> 00:54:57,505
care most about is helping building the kingdom

1517
00:54:57,505 --> 00:54:59,264
of God in my own family and in

1518
00:54:59,264 --> 00:55:01,344
in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter

1519
00:55:01,344 --> 00:55:03,125
day Saints. And so that's really

1520
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:04,699
changed my

1521
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:05,500
heart,

1522
00:55:06,199 --> 00:55:07,179
to be able to

1523
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:09,260
to truly,

1524
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:11,639
find joy in that and not just as

1525
00:55:11,639 --> 00:55:12,139
a,

1526
00:55:12,679 --> 00:55:15,019
you know, I'm collecting my celestial

1527
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:16,619
collateral, you know?

1528
00:55:17,125 --> 00:55:17,625
So,

1529
00:55:18,485 --> 00:55:20,244
and just just also a chance to just

1530
00:55:20,244 --> 00:55:21,684
walk in his shoes and be able to

1531
00:55:21,684 --> 00:55:22,425
see people

1532
00:55:22,805 --> 00:55:24,485
a little bit more like the savior sees

1533
00:55:24,485 --> 00:55:24,985
them.

1534
00:55:26,565 --> 00:55:27,625
It's just a,

1535
00:55:28,164 --> 00:55:30,265
I mean, there aren't really aren't words to

1536
00:55:30,325 --> 00:55:32,105
to describe what that's like.

1537
00:55:33,059 --> 00:55:34,599
So it's just been an amazing

1538
00:55:34,900 --> 00:55:36,840
experience that I'm truly grateful for.

1539
00:55:50,105 --> 00:55:52,204
And that concludes this how I lead

1540
00:55:52,505 --> 00:55:54,904
interview. I hope you enjoyed it. And, I

1541
00:55:54,904 --> 00:55:56,585
would ask you, could you take a minute

1542
00:55:56,585 --> 00:55:58,424
and drop this link in an email, on

1543
00:55:58,424 --> 00:56:00,780
social media, in a text, wherever it makes

1544
00:56:00,780 --> 00:56:02,380
the most sense, and share it with somebody

1545
00:56:02,380 --> 00:56:05,420
who could relate to this experience. And this

1546
00:56:05,420 --> 00:56:07,579
is how we develop as leaders, just hearing

1547
00:56:07,579 --> 00:56:09,180
what the other guy is doing, trying some

1548
00:56:09,180 --> 00:56:10,640
things out, testing, adjusting

1549
00:56:11,019 --> 00:56:12,140
for your area, and,

1550
00:56:12,945 --> 00:56:15,184
that's where great leadership's discovered. Right? So we

1551
00:56:15,184 --> 00:56:17,265
would love to have you, share this with,

1552
00:56:17,425 --> 00:56:20,305
somebody in this calling or a related calling,

1553
00:56:20,305 --> 00:56:22,385
and that would be great. And also, if

1554
00:56:22,385 --> 00:56:23,285
you know somebody,

1555
00:56:23,664 --> 00:56:25,309
any type of leader who would be a

1556
00:56:25,309 --> 00:56:27,650
fantastic guest on the how I lead segment,

1557
00:56:28,110 --> 00:56:31,010
reach out to us. Go to leadingsaints.org/contact.

1558
00:56:31,150 --> 00:56:33,469
Maybe send this in individual an email letting

1559
00:56:33,469 --> 00:56:35,409
them know that you're going to be suggesting

1560
00:56:35,550 --> 00:56:37,789
their name for this interview. We'll reach out

1561
00:56:37,789 --> 00:56:38,934
to them and,

1562
00:56:39,335 --> 00:56:40,534
see if we can line them up. So,

1563
00:56:40,534 --> 00:56:42,875
again, go to leadingsaints.org/contact,

1564
00:56:43,014 --> 00:56:44,875
and there you can submit all the information

1565
00:56:45,255 --> 00:56:46,934
and let us know. And maybe they will

1566
00:56:46,934 --> 00:56:48,694
be on a future how I lead segment

1567
00:56:48,694 --> 00:56:50,234
on the Leading Saints podcast.

1568
00:57:04,140 --> 00:57:06,640
It came as a result of the position

1569
00:57:06,780 --> 00:57:09,680
of leadership which was imposed upon us

1570
00:57:10,295 --> 00:57:12,855
by the God of heaven who brought forth

1571
00:57:12,855 --> 00:57:13,755
a restoration

1572
00:57:14,055 --> 00:57:16,394
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

1573
00:57:16,855 --> 00:57:17,994
And when the declaration

1574
00:57:18,295 --> 00:57:21,655
was made concerning the own and only true

1575
00:57:21,655 --> 00:57:23,974
and living church upon the face of the

1576
00:57:23,974 --> 00:57:24,474
earth,

1577
00:57:24,890 --> 00:57:27,630
We were immediately put in a position of

1578
00:57:27,769 --> 00:57:28,269
loneliness.

1579
00:57:28,650 --> 00:57:30,190
The loneliness of leadership

1580
00:57:31,050 --> 00:57:34,110
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,

1581
00:57:35,130 --> 00:57:37,610
and to which we must face up with

1582
00:57:37,610 --> 00:57:38,110
boldness

1583
00:57:38,410 --> 00:57:39,070
and courage

1584
00:57:39,756 --> 00:57:40,256
and

1585
00:57:40,634 --> 00:57:41,134
ability.