1
00:00:01,919 --> 00:00:04,480
Alright. Here's our goal, folks. Leading Saints is

2
00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,960
no longer a podcast. Well, obviously, we are

3
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,519
a podcast. We will continue to podcast, but

4
00:00:09,519 --> 00:00:12,400
we're really shifting our focus over to Zion

5
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,179
Lab, which is an online community

6
00:00:14,564 --> 00:00:16,904
put on and developed by leading saints.

7
00:00:17,285 --> 00:00:18,725
And this is where we want to go

8
00:00:18,725 --> 00:00:20,024
and gather the masses

9
00:00:20,324 --> 00:00:23,204
and share ideas about leadership, share ideas about

10
00:00:23,204 --> 00:00:26,024
different callings, share ideas about building Zion.

11
00:00:26,324 --> 00:00:27,844
And this is the place that we want

12
00:00:27,844 --> 00:00:30,105
to make online, where all things are discussed,

13
00:00:30,379 --> 00:00:32,299
great ideas are shared, and that we can

14
00:00:32,299 --> 00:00:34,780
help one another in whatever calling we're in

15
00:00:34,780 --> 00:00:36,859
or what calling we're not in to feel

16
00:00:36,859 --> 00:00:38,699
like, you know, I've got purpose here. I

17
00:00:38,699 --> 00:00:40,619
can really make a difference in shifting culture

18
00:00:40,619 --> 00:00:42,619
in a better way or developing Zion in

19
00:00:42,619 --> 00:00:44,715
my own corner of the kingdom. So join

20
00:00:44,715 --> 00:00:48,975
us over at Zion Lab at leadingsaints.org/zion,

21
00:00:49,115 --> 00:00:51,034
and there you can just jump in. It's

22
00:00:51,034 --> 00:00:53,454
free to join and create a profile and

23
00:00:53,515 --> 00:00:55,435
jump in and and look around and answer

24
00:00:55,435 --> 00:00:57,674
some questions. Leave a comment, pose a question,

25
00:00:57,674 --> 00:00:59,354
and I think you'll benefit from the things

26
00:00:59,354 --> 00:01:02,646
we're doing over at Zion Lab. So join

27
00:01:02,913 --> 00:01:05,810
us. Before we jump into the content of

28
00:01:05,810 --> 00:01:07,729
this episode, I kinda feel it's important that

29
00:01:07,729 --> 00:01:09,729
I introduce myself. Now many of you have

30
00:01:09,729 --> 00:01:12,629
been around a long time. You're well familiar

31
00:01:12,689 --> 00:01:14,725
with my voice and the the with Leading

32
00:01:14,725 --> 00:01:16,105
Saints as an organization.

33
00:01:16,405 --> 00:01:18,085
But if you're not, well, my name is

34
00:01:18,085 --> 00:01:20,165
Kurt Frankem, and I am the executive director

35
00:01:20,165 --> 00:01:22,645
of Leading Saints and the podcast host. Now

36
00:01:22,645 --> 00:01:24,025
Leading Saints is a nonprofit

37
00:01:24,325 --> 00:01:24,825
organization

38
00:01:25,445 --> 00:01:28,005
dedicated helping Latter day Saints be better prepared

39
00:01:28,005 --> 00:01:29,939
to lead. And we do that through, well,

40
00:01:29,939 --> 00:01:32,420
content creation like this podcast and many other

41
00:01:32,420 --> 00:01:34,280
resources at leadingsaints.org.

42
00:01:34,340 --> 00:01:36,979
And, we don't act like we have all

43
00:01:36,979 --> 00:01:39,379
the answers or know exactly what a leader

44
00:01:39,379 --> 00:01:40,900
should do or not do, but we like

45
00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:41,640
to explore

46
00:01:42,064 --> 00:01:44,545
the concepts of leadership, the science of leadership,

47
00:01:44,545 --> 00:01:47,105
what people are researching about leadership, and see

48
00:01:47,105 --> 00:01:49,025
how we can apply them to a Latter

49
00:01:49,025 --> 00:01:51,204
day Saint world. So here we go.

50
00:01:53,424 --> 00:01:55,329
Hey. In this episode, we talk with Curtis

51
00:01:55,329 --> 00:01:57,569
Morley. This is part of a discussion that

52
00:01:57,569 --> 00:01:59,989
we had over at the leading saints community.

53
00:02:00,450 --> 00:02:01,969
You guys listen, all the cool kids are

54
00:02:01,969 --> 00:02:03,569
hanging out at the leading saints community. If

55
00:02:03,569 --> 00:02:05,829
you go to leadingsaints.org/design,

56
00:02:05,969 --> 00:02:07,810
be able to experience it. There's so many

57
00:02:07,810 --> 00:02:09,989
free resources on there, vast libraries

58
00:02:10,435 --> 00:02:12,534
to really dig in, and we're having ongoing

59
00:02:12,594 --> 00:02:15,314
discussions. Like, Leading Saints is no longer just

60
00:02:15,314 --> 00:02:17,555
a once a week time type of a

61
00:02:17,555 --> 00:02:19,794
podcast that you just wait around for the

62
00:02:19,794 --> 00:02:22,454
next week's episode. We are having the conversation

63
00:02:22,889 --> 00:02:24,650
over at the community and never seems to

64
00:02:24,650 --> 00:02:26,430
end, and I love it. Just so many

65
00:02:26,490 --> 00:02:28,969
interesting questions and perspectives are shared there. And

66
00:02:28,969 --> 00:02:30,250
so we we invite you to be a

67
00:02:30,250 --> 00:02:31,370
part of that. And one of the things

68
00:02:31,370 --> 00:02:32,889
we do there is have a lot of

69
00:02:32,889 --> 00:02:35,530
live streams with a live studio audience tuning

70
00:02:35,530 --> 00:02:37,824
in. That's what we did with Curtis. Curtis

71
00:02:37,824 --> 00:02:39,685
is a phenomenal author, coach,

72
00:02:39,985 --> 00:02:43,025
has some really dynamic programs that have helping

73
00:02:43,025 --> 00:02:45,504
a lot of people even in the arena

74
00:02:45,504 --> 00:02:48,705
of overcoming pornography. And so Curtis wanted to

75
00:02:48,705 --> 00:02:50,465
come on here on the podcast and share

76
00:02:50,544 --> 00:02:52,544
or on the Leading Saints community and share

77
00:02:52,544 --> 00:02:55,969
the eight myths about, pornography addiction.

78
00:02:56,670 --> 00:02:58,830
And, man, they are there are some good

79
00:02:58,830 --> 00:03:00,750
ones. So he goes over the eight myths

80
00:03:00,750 --> 00:03:03,469
of those who struggle with pornography and just

81
00:03:03,469 --> 00:03:06,590
really practical advice here, a good starting point

82
00:03:06,590 --> 00:03:08,694
for leaders. And when somebody walks in your

83
00:03:08,694 --> 00:03:10,455
office or reaches out to you and opens

84
00:03:10,455 --> 00:03:12,215
up and says, hey. This is part of,

85
00:03:12,455 --> 00:03:14,375
something I'm struggling with. I don't know what

86
00:03:14,375 --> 00:03:15,995
to do about it. It's been a while.

87
00:03:16,294 --> 00:03:18,375
What's the real problem going on, and what

88
00:03:18,375 --> 00:03:20,534
are some things as far as the some

89
00:03:20,534 --> 00:03:21,995
myths about sobriety

90
00:03:22,550 --> 00:03:23,050
versus,

91
00:03:23,509 --> 00:03:24,009
recovery?

92
00:03:24,389 --> 00:03:25,990
And, you know, is it just this white

93
00:03:25,990 --> 00:03:26,490
knuckle

94
00:03:26,790 --> 00:03:29,030
type of process for a while? Or should

95
00:03:29,030 --> 00:03:31,349
we tell missionaries, I just gotta be sober

96
00:03:31,349 --> 00:03:32,790
for six months in order to go on

97
00:03:32,790 --> 00:03:34,310
a mission? And, I mean, there's so much

98
00:03:34,310 --> 00:03:36,144
of this in our culture that we could

99
00:03:36,144 --> 00:03:38,724
benefit from by stepping back and really assessing

100
00:03:38,784 --> 00:03:41,104
the the real story, the reality of what's

101
00:03:41,104 --> 00:03:42,944
going on. So you're gonna appreciate this. This

102
00:03:42,944 --> 00:03:44,944
is one to share with bishops or youth

103
00:03:44,944 --> 00:03:46,564
leaders that you have in your life, or,

104
00:03:46,784 --> 00:03:49,549
I mean, everybody seems to be connected to

105
00:03:49,549 --> 00:03:51,469
this issue in some way. So please drop

106
00:03:51,469 --> 00:03:53,150
this in a text message and, and share

107
00:03:53,150 --> 00:03:54,189
it with somebody and,

108
00:03:54,669 --> 00:03:56,750
bless their lives. So here's my interview with

109
00:03:56,750 --> 00:03:57,650
Curtis Morley.

110
00:04:07,305 --> 00:04:09,145
So Curtis, maybe just give this a thirty

111
00:04:09,145 --> 00:04:10,585
second. What's your background? I know you're an

112
00:04:10,585 --> 00:04:13,145
author, you're a speaker, you you're on TV

113
00:04:13,145 --> 00:04:14,825
here and there. And how do you explain

114
00:04:14,825 --> 00:04:15,325
yourself?

115
00:04:15,689 --> 00:04:16,189
Yeah.

116
00:04:17,050 --> 00:04:18,569
So most of my life I've been an

117
00:04:18,569 --> 00:04:20,189
entrepreneur, but the last,

118
00:04:20,569 --> 00:04:22,649
last several years, last seven, eight years have

119
00:04:22,649 --> 00:04:23,870
been really around

120
00:04:24,490 --> 00:04:27,069
the idea of counterfeit emotions

121
00:04:27,529 --> 00:04:30,305
and what people now are referring me to

122
00:04:30,305 --> 00:04:32,004
me as, as a, an emotionologist,

123
00:04:34,384 --> 00:04:37,024
different than a psychologist that deals with the

124
00:04:37,024 --> 00:04:38,805
psyche. This is an emotionologist,

125
00:04:39,185 --> 00:04:41,604
which deals with the heart or the motions.

126
00:04:42,189 --> 00:04:44,529
That's awesome. And you've let's see. You've written

127
00:04:44,670 --> 00:04:46,430
a couple of books or you're working on

128
00:04:46,430 --> 00:04:48,050
one and you have one out or,

129
00:04:49,230 --> 00:04:51,949
I wrote right here. Yeah. I wrote a

130
00:04:51,949 --> 00:04:53,889
book called the entrepreneur's paradox,

131
00:04:54,735 --> 00:04:57,375
Very different topic. It's about business and how

132
00:04:57,375 --> 00:04:59,074
to go from basement to buyout.

133
00:04:59,535 --> 00:05:02,495
Hit Wall Street Journal bestseller list and fun

134
00:05:02,495 --> 00:05:04,975
things like that. But, yeah, currently writing the

135
00:05:04,975 --> 00:05:07,720
book called Counterfeit Emotions. We submit it to

136
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,699
the publishers this week. Oh, cool. That's awesome.

137
00:05:10,919 --> 00:05:12,599
So where's a good you know, I guess

138
00:05:12,599 --> 00:05:15,019
the the general theme is we're talking about

139
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:16,379
recovery, addiction,

140
00:05:16,759 --> 00:05:19,000
and, obviously, that that works in things like

141
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,254
pornography use and but where's a good jumping

142
00:05:21,254 --> 00:05:23,095
off point? One of the best jumping off

143
00:05:23,095 --> 00:05:23,995
points, I think,

144
00:05:24,375 --> 00:05:25,675
is to dive into

145
00:05:26,055 --> 00:05:27,435
the idea that

146
00:05:27,895 --> 00:05:29,514
there's myths around

147
00:05:29,895 --> 00:05:31,035
pornography recovery.

148
00:05:31,415 --> 00:05:33,860
There's a lot of myths, and they've perpetuated

149
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:35,779
for years, probably decades,

150
00:05:36,319 --> 00:05:38,180
that they would be great just

151
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,439
to dive in and say, okay, let's figure

152
00:05:41,439 --> 00:05:44,319
out what these myths are and what they're

153
00:05:44,319 --> 00:05:47,060
doing to our members, what they're doing to

154
00:05:47,464 --> 00:05:50,365
society in whole, and why these myths actually

155
00:05:50,745 --> 00:05:53,164
keep us trapped in the problem versus

156
00:05:53,785 --> 00:05:56,425
freeing freeing us. Yeah. And that's the tricky

157
00:05:56,425 --> 00:05:58,504
thing with these topics is that we do

158
00:05:58,504 --> 00:06:00,365
things that feel like,

159
00:06:00,740 --> 00:06:03,319
we're helping. Right? When in reality, you're maybe

160
00:06:03,620 --> 00:06:05,779
further ingraining the the issue or or for

161
00:06:05,779 --> 00:06:06,279
perpetuating

162
00:06:06,580 --> 00:06:10,500
it. Yeah. And maybe actually, maybe if we

163
00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:13,540
step back, the idea with counterfeit emotions is

164
00:06:13,540 --> 00:06:16,904
that every authentic emotion or every emotion that

165
00:06:16,904 --> 00:06:18,745
serves us and takes us where we wanna

166
00:06:18,745 --> 00:06:20,524
go has a counterfeit.

167
00:06:20,985 --> 00:06:21,485
And

168
00:06:22,024 --> 00:06:24,604
so some examples are like guilt and shame.

169
00:06:25,064 --> 00:06:26,524
Guilt is a beautiful

170
00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:28,860
It talks about in the scriptures over and

171
00:06:28,860 --> 00:06:30,720
over again. It's an important emotion.

172
00:06:31,180 --> 00:06:33,580
Shame is the lowest frequency emotion we can

173
00:06:33,580 --> 00:06:36,699
fill. And there's several different dyads or pairs

174
00:06:36,699 --> 00:06:39,120
of emotions in the counterfeit emotions framework.

175
00:06:39,475 --> 00:06:41,495
And one of those is that sobriety

176
00:06:42,274 --> 00:06:44,134
is the counterfeit of recovery.

177
00:06:45,074 --> 00:06:47,095
So break that down. How would you define

178
00:06:47,154 --> 00:06:49,495
sobriety and how would you define recovery?

179
00:06:49,795 --> 00:06:51,254
There's a really simple visual.

180
00:06:51,970 --> 00:06:52,470
Sobriety

181
00:06:53,009 --> 00:06:54,230
says how long.

182
00:06:55,170 --> 00:06:55,670
Recovery

183
00:06:56,129 --> 00:06:57,270
says how deep.

184
00:06:57,649 --> 00:06:58,230
Mhmm. That

185
00:06:59,009 --> 00:06:59,509
sobriety

186
00:06:59,889 --> 00:07:00,389
is

187
00:07:00,770 --> 00:07:02,230
sobriety is the stopwatch.

188
00:07:02,930 --> 00:07:04,790
It's very simply saying, okay,

189
00:07:05,284 --> 00:07:08,024
You're not gonna look at pornography. Ready? Go.

190
00:07:08,245 --> 00:07:10,404
And it's almost like holding your breath. It's

191
00:07:10,404 --> 00:07:12,404
almost like, okay. Ready? Everybody hold your breath.

192
00:07:12,404 --> 00:07:13,604
Let's see how long you can go. You

193
00:07:13,604 --> 00:07:15,444
know what? Let's just do it. Alright. Everybody

194
00:07:15,444 --> 00:07:18,084
listening. Everybody that's listening, hold your breath on

195
00:07:18,084 --> 00:07:19,544
your marks. Get set. Go.

196
00:07:20,579 --> 00:07:21,939
And I'm not, I'm not gonna hold my

197
00:07:21,939 --> 00:07:24,100
breath. You guys do. Let's see who turns

198
00:07:24,100 --> 00:07:24,839
blue first.

199
00:07:25,300 --> 00:07:25,800
Yeah.

200
00:07:26,419 --> 00:07:28,500
But the severity is saying, okay, hold your

201
00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:30,339
breath, hold your breath, hold your breath. Don't

202
00:07:30,339 --> 00:07:32,819
try and breathe. We're gonna keep this timer

203
00:07:32,819 --> 00:07:34,660
going. And as long as the timer's going,

204
00:07:34,660 --> 00:07:35,399
you're okay.

205
00:07:35,834 --> 00:07:37,935
But as soon as you take that breath,

206
00:07:38,555 --> 00:07:39,615
then guess what happens?

207
00:07:40,235 --> 00:07:40,894
The clock

208
00:07:41,274 --> 00:07:41,774
resets.

209
00:07:42,394 --> 00:07:42,894
And

210
00:07:43,274 --> 00:07:43,774
sobriety

211
00:07:44,634 --> 00:07:47,194
uses I call it the worth clock. This

212
00:07:47,194 --> 00:07:49,810
is the worth clock that your worth goes

213
00:07:49,810 --> 00:07:50,870
back to zero

214
00:07:51,250 --> 00:07:52,870
every time there's a relapse.

215
00:07:53,490 --> 00:07:53,990
And

216
00:07:54,290 --> 00:07:57,430
and sobriety is strictly focused on how long

217
00:07:57,810 --> 00:08:00,629
can we go without looking at pornography.

218
00:08:01,170 --> 00:08:02,310
Whereas recovery,

219
00:08:03,035 --> 00:08:05,055
recovery doesn't measure how long,

220
00:08:05,514 --> 00:08:08,894
recovery measures how deep. And there's this general

221
00:08:09,194 --> 00:08:09,694
concept

222
00:08:10,235 --> 00:08:12,574
that, okay, we're gonna use willpower.

223
00:08:13,035 --> 00:08:15,115
We're gonna tough this out. We're gonna make

224
00:08:15,115 --> 00:08:17,280
this happen. And it's basically

225
00:08:17,819 --> 00:08:21,040
pushing all these emotions down in our soul.

226
00:08:21,340 --> 00:08:24,139
So I grabbed my little demon here. This

227
00:08:24,139 --> 00:08:26,879
is this is my emotional trigger. Right?

228
00:08:27,420 --> 00:08:27,920
And

229
00:08:28,235 --> 00:08:31,115
sobriety says, okay. Push these emotions down. Push

230
00:08:31,115 --> 00:08:33,195
them down. Push them down. And some of

231
00:08:33,195 --> 00:08:36,495
us get really good at suppressing the emotions,

232
00:08:37,434 --> 00:08:40,495
but it's like holding a beach ball underwater.

233
00:08:41,195 --> 00:08:43,455
The farther down you push the beach ball,

234
00:08:44,519 --> 00:08:46,759
the more force is exerted when it pops

235
00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:49,879
back up. And that's the difference between sobriety

236
00:08:49,879 --> 00:08:52,840
and recovery. Sobriety says, okay. We're gonna teach

237
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:54,860
you all the ways to push this down.

238
00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:56,539
Recovery says,

239
00:08:57,054 --> 00:08:59,615
we're gonna pull this little guy out. We're

240
00:08:59,615 --> 00:09:01,634
gonna take our demons to lunch,

241
00:09:02,014 --> 00:09:04,335
and we're gonna start to understand what they're

242
00:09:04,335 --> 00:09:07,295
doing in our soul. Mhmm. Yeah. And this

243
00:09:07,295 --> 00:09:10,095
digging into, like, a leadership context or even

244
00:09:10,095 --> 00:09:13,019
a a parent child relationship is, you know,

245
00:09:13,019 --> 00:09:14,940
we often we don't know how to measure

246
00:09:14,940 --> 00:09:16,699
the progress that's being made. And that's the

247
00:09:16,699 --> 00:09:19,600
tricky thing is the measuring stick for sobriety

248
00:09:19,820 --> 00:09:22,779
is easier to read than than a recovery.

249
00:09:22,779 --> 00:09:25,100
And so we maybe default to time limits

250
00:09:25,100 --> 00:09:26,699
or a Bishop may say, all right, let's

251
00:09:26,699 --> 00:09:28,735
go. You can go two weeks without looking

252
00:09:28,735 --> 00:09:30,575
at pornography, then you can take the sacrament.

253
00:09:30,575 --> 00:09:32,815
Right? Or a parent may use the same

254
00:09:32,815 --> 00:09:34,495
thing and, you know, you'll get your phone

255
00:09:34,495 --> 00:09:36,254
back if you can such and such. Right?

256
00:09:36,254 --> 00:09:37,715
And it becomes very transactional,

257
00:09:38,095 --> 00:09:40,649
and it feels like we're making progress. So

258
00:09:40,649 --> 00:09:41,309
we're addressing

259
00:09:41,769 --> 00:09:44,730
the concern because we're addressing the activity when

260
00:09:44,730 --> 00:09:47,290
in reality, it's, not that simple. Yeah. I

261
00:09:47,290 --> 00:09:49,129
love how you put that. It is the

262
00:09:49,129 --> 00:09:52,269
counterfeit because it feels like we're making progress.

263
00:09:52,544 --> 00:09:54,865
Okay. Great job. You made it two weeks.

264
00:09:54,865 --> 00:09:57,365
Way to go. And that feels like progress.

265
00:09:57,745 --> 00:10:00,644
And here's the crazy thing. There is zero

266
00:10:00,705 --> 00:10:01,205
correlation.

267
00:10:01,985 --> 00:10:02,485
Zero

268
00:10:02,945 --> 00:10:03,445
correlation

269
00:10:04,144 --> 00:10:06,164
with how long someone is sober

270
00:10:06,549 --> 00:10:09,670
and how much recovery they've experienced. Yeah. You

271
00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:12,309
can white knuckle for a long time. I

272
00:10:12,309 --> 00:10:13,850
have a guy in my program

273
00:10:14,389 --> 00:10:16,790
that's coming up here in September 3. He

274
00:10:16,790 --> 00:10:18,809
was able to white knuckle for twelve years.

275
00:10:18,950 --> 00:10:21,350
He was able to be sober for twelve

276
00:10:21,350 --> 00:10:24,074
years. And I think this really illustrates the

277
00:10:24,074 --> 00:10:25,914
concept. I have a good friend. He's a

278
00:10:25,914 --> 00:10:26,414
bishop.

279
00:10:26,794 --> 00:10:28,714
And he said that growing up, his dad

280
00:10:28,714 --> 00:10:31,115
was a raging alcoholic. He was the angry

281
00:10:31,115 --> 00:10:32,254
drunk. You know?

282
00:10:32,714 --> 00:10:34,574
And when his brother turned 18,

283
00:10:35,110 --> 00:10:37,590
his brother followed in his dad's footsteps. So

284
00:10:37,590 --> 00:10:40,070
now there's two drunks in the family. And

285
00:10:40,070 --> 00:10:42,889
together, they went to a recovery program. And

286
00:10:43,269 --> 00:10:45,750
they had a family dinner. And my friend,

287
00:10:45,750 --> 00:10:47,509
he asked his dad, he goes, so dad,

288
00:10:47,509 --> 00:10:48,870
when was the last time you wanted to

289
00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:51,434
have a drink? And he goes, oh,

290
00:10:52,615 --> 00:10:54,075
I I don't even remember.

291
00:10:54,615 --> 00:10:55,975
And he was like, oh, that's so awesome.

292
00:10:55,975 --> 00:10:57,335
And then he asked his brother, he said,

293
00:10:57,335 --> 00:10:59,014
hey, how about you? When was the last

294
00:10:59,014 --> 00:11:00,294
time you wanted to have a drink? And

295
00:11:00,294 --> 00:11:02,154
he goes, oh, about fifteen minutes ago.

296
00:11:02,615 --> 00:11:03,914
Yeah. And

297
00:11:04,220 --> 00:11:05,120
And that illustrates

298
00:11:05,500 --> 00:11:08,000
the difference. And he's like, fifteen minutes ago,

299
00:11:08,059 --> 00:11:10,700
you've been sober for five years. You still

300
00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:13,100
have these cravings, these compulsions. He's like, oh,

301
00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:15,820
every morning, every morning I wake up with

302
00:11:15,820 --> 00:11:18,184
a pit in my stomach thinking is today

303
00:11:18,184 --> 00:11:20,904
my last day. And I have to battle

304
00:11:20,904 --> 00:11:22,904
this over and over again. I have to

305
00:11:22,904 --> 00:11:25,325
fight it every day. Whereas his dad

306
00:11:25,785 --> 00:11:27,165
was in a state of recovery

307
00:11:27,705 --> 00:11:30,425
where he didn't have the daily compulsions. He

308
00:11:30,425 --> 00:11:33,120
didn't have all of the things that said,

309
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:34,019
go get that

310
00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:36,820
drink. Instead, it was, I don't even remember

311
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,519
when I had that last drink or when

312
00:11:39,519 --> 00:11:42,320
I wanted that last drink. Yeah. Takes my

313
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,820
mind to, is it I wanna say Mosiah

314
00:11:44,879 --> 00:11:47,294
four where, you know, the people had didn't

315
00:11:47,294 --> 00:11:49,134
even have a desire to sin or disposition

316
00:11:49,134 --> 00:11:51,534
to to sin. Like, there's a something changes

317
00:11:51,534 --> 00:11:53,934
in you. There's a transformation that happens. And

318
00:11:53,934 --> 00:11:55,455
not to say that it's an event or

319
00:11:55,455 --> 00:11:58,095
it's this magical moment that happens. You know,

320
00:11:58,095 --> 00:12:00,240
some individuals are bringing out routines or

321
00:12:00,620 --> 00:12:02,220
figuring out that, you know, how do I

322
00:12:02,220 --> 00:12:04,460
take that demon to lunch or, you know,

323
00:12:04,460 --> 00:12:06,860
process this or what about that past trauma?

324
00:12:06,860 --> 00:12:08,220
And, you know, it doesn't just go away

325
00:12:08,220 --> 00:12:09,899
in instant, but the point is is that's

326
00:12:09,899 --> 00:12:11,740
what needs to be addressed rather than just

327
00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:12,320
the behavior.

328
00:12:12,620 --> 00:12:15,024
Yeah. That's it. That's exactly it. These little

329
00:12:15,024 --> 00:12:17,105
guys that are buried in the graveyard of

330
00:12:17,105 --> 00:12:19,264
our soul, that's what needs to be addressed.

331
00:12:19,264 --> 00:12:21,285
You said, what is the metric for recovery?

332
00:12:21,504 --> 00:12:24,144
Like, for sobriety, the metric is super easy.

333
00:12:24,144 --> 00:12:25,125
It's the stopwatch.

334
00:12:25,665 --> 00:12:26,565
For recovery,

335
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,600
the metric is how many of these guys

336
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,059
have we been able to process?

337
00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:32,740
How many triggers?

338
00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:36,159
How many hard emotions or demons? We'll call

339
00:12:36,159 --> 00:12:38,240
them demons. How many of those have we

340
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,339
dug out of the graveyard of our soul?

341
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:41,460
That's the metric.

342
00:12:42,044 --> 00:12:44,144
Because if we can pull this guy out,

343
00:12:44,205 --> 00:12:46,284
let's say we have we have a trigger

344
00:12:46,284 --> 00:12:46,784
like

345
00:12:47,085 --> 00:12:49,325
a fight with a spouse or something like

346
00:12:49,325 --> 00:12:52,544
that. And, you know, this little guy's screaming

347
00:12:52,605 --> 00:12:55,325
at our skull, hey. There's this out over

348
00:12:55,325 --> 00:12:56,065
here because

349
00:12:56,409 --> 00:12:58,409
that fight with your wife said you're not

350
00:12:58,409 --> 00:13:01,610
of worth, that you are actually pretty jerk

351
00:13:01,610 --> 00:13:02,110
husband.

352
00:13:02,730 --> 00:13:05,129
And so this little guy is screaming at

353
00:13:05,129 --> 00:13:07,210
us. Well, if we can pull this guy

354
00:13:07,210 --> 00:13:09,929
out, the very next time we have that

355
00:13:09,929 --> 00:13:12,625
fight, we don't have to go here. We

356
00:13:12,625 --> 00:13:14,804
don't have to go to that place anymore

357
00:13:15,184 --> 00:13:18,304
because we've already processed. We've already figured that

358
00:13:18,304 --> 00:13:19,605
part of our soul out.

359
00:13:19,985 --> 00:13:22,865
Yeah. Anything else, Curtis, about this concept of

360
00:13:22,865 --> 00:13:24,625
sobriety versus recovery? I'm sure we'll come back

361
00:13:24,625 --> 00:13:25,985
to it as we go, but any any

362
00:13:25,985 --> 00:13:28,519
other groundwork we need to lay? Yeah. There's

363
00:13:28,519 --> 00:13:31,639
one really, really important thing with the sobriety

364
00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:32,299
and recovery

365
00:13:32,919 --> 00:13:35,480
is that and, actually, that takes us to

366
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:36,460
the second myth,

367
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,100
is that sobriety is miserable.

368
00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,320
If you're a bishop, if you're working with

369
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,085
anybody that is in this problem, sobriety is

370
00:13:44,085 --> 00:13:46,105
miserable. Recovery is peaceful.

371
00:13:46,644 --> 00:13:48,725
And if you look if you actually take

372
00:13:48,725 --> 00:13:50,585
the etymology of the word sober,

373
00:13:50,965 --> 00:13:54,245
the word sober means not drunk dot dot

374
00:13:54,245 --> 00:13:54,509
dot

375
00:13:55,070 --> 00:13:55,970
at the moment.

376
00:13:58,590 --> 00:13:59,889
The concept of sobriety

377
00:14:00,269 --> 00:14:01,410
is by definition

378
00:14:01,950 --> 00:14:04,910
sobriety comes from sobrias, a Latin word that

379
00:14:04,910 --> 00:14:08,210
says it's the time between relapses.

380
00:14:08,934 --> 00:14:09,434
Yeah.

381
00:14:09,735 --> 00:14:10,235
Bookended

382
00:14:10,615 --> 00:14:11,355
by relapse.

383
00:14:11,975 --> 00:14:14,375
Whereas recovery, if you look at the word

384
00:14:14,375 --> 00:14:14,875
recovery,

385
00:14:15,254 --> 00:14:17,195
it actually has the word over

386
00:14:17,654 --> 00:14:19,575
inside it. Yeah. And just like holding your

387
00:14:19,575 --> 00:14:21,894
breath where the first two, three seconds, even

388
00:14:21,894 --> 00:14:23,894
ten seconds, I'm I'm feeling okay. You know?

389
00:14:23,894 --> 00:14:25,910
It's when I'm pushing forty five seconds where

390
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:28,230
I'm like, oh my goodness. I I'm gonna,

391
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:30,250
I, I feel like I'm gonna die. Right.

392
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:31,050
Yeah.

393
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:33,590
Yeah. And I didn't tell everybody you can

394
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:36,149
breathe. So whoever's still in your breath, you

395
00:14:36,149 --> 00:14:38,174
can breathe now. People are passed out of

396
00:14:38,174 --> 00:14:40,095
their computers all around the world. So this

397
00:14:40,095 --> 00:14:40,674
is great.

398
00:14:41,294 --> 00:14:44,334
But that's exactly it. It's that holding your

399
00:14:44,334 --> 00:14:46,735
breath. It's like pretending you don't have to

400
00:14:46,735 --> 00:14:49,074
feel. Every one of these demons,

401
00:14:49,454 --> 00:14:51,519
Rachel, in the q and a, she says

402
00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:53,679
talk more about the demons, taking the demons

403
00:14:53,679 --> 00:14:56,240
lunch. Every one of these demons is a

404
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:56,740
feeling.

405
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:58,799
And what I mean by taking our demons

406
00:14:58,799 --> 00:14:59,460
to lunch

407
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,160
is that instead of pushing these down in

408
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,365
our soul and pretending like we don't have

409
00:15:04,365 --> 00:15:05,825
to address these feelings,

410
00:15:06,365 --> 00:15:08,764
we pull them out and we start to

411
00:15:08,764 --> 00:15:10,805
process them. When I say taking our demons

412
00:15:10,805 --> 00:15:13,264
to lunch, it says sit across the table

413
00:15:13,644 --> 00:15:16,684
and say say, what are you doing to

414
00:15:16,684 --> 00:15:18,579
try and help me in my life? And

415
00:15:18,579 --> 00:15:20,500
that may sound backwards. Like, wait. These are

416
00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:22,500
the demons in our soul. Why would I

417
00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:24,019
ask it and what it's doing to help

418
00:15:24,019 --> 00:15:26,339
me? Mhmm. And the truth is when we

419
00:15:26,339 --> 00:15:28,659
pull these guys out, what we find is

420
00:15:28,659 --> 00:15:31,375
that they're not demons after all. They're a

421
00:15:31,375 --> 00:15:33,875
part an important part of our soul

422
00:15:34,254 --> 00:15:37,294
that we've exiled, that we fractured, that we

423
00:15:37,294 --> 00:15:38,995
don't know how to deal with.

424
00:15:39,375 --> 00:15:42,514
And once we do that work, I call

425
00:15:42,654 --> 00:15:43,955
doing the work or digging.

426
00:15:44,269 --> 00:15:46,269
Once we dig and find these guys and

427
00:15:46,269 --> 00:15:49,070
say, I wanna understand you. And what it

428
00:15:49,070 --> 00:15:51,149
turns out is this was a 12 year

429
00:15:51,149 --> 00:15:51,889
old Curtis

430
00:15:52,429 --> 00:15:54,129
that had a traumatic experience

431
00:15:54,509 --> 00:15:56,610
that through that traumatic experience

432
00:15:57,424 --> 00:15:58,565
said, Curtis,

433
00:15:59,024 --> 00:16:01,584
you're actually not worth it. And when that

434
00:16:01,584 --> 00:16:04,784
type of experience rolls back around, guess who's

435
00:16:04,784 --> 00:16:07,524
popping up their head? It's this little guy.

436
00:16:07,664 --> 00:16:10,384
And being able to process through that, being

437
00:16:10,384 --> 00:16:12,889
able to process to say, okay. You know

438
00:16:13,190 --> 00:16:15,829
what? I can understand this. My favorite definition

439
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:17,289
of trauma is

440
00:16:17,669 --> 00:16:18,569
is experience

441
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:21,129
that our mind couldn't comprehend

442
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:24,549
at the time. Mhmm. That's it. And I

443
00:16:24,549 --> 00:16:26,649
love that definition of trauma because

444
00:16:27,004 --> 00:16:29,485
it removes the fear of trauma. Like, people

445
00:16:29,485 --> 00:16:31,725
say trauma, and it's like, dun, dun, dun,

446
00:16:31,725 --> 00:16:32,784
you know, trauma.

447
00:16:33,164 --> 00:16:34,705
And it's simply

448
00:16:35,164 --> 00:16:37,804
an experience that our mind couldn't comprehend at

449
00:16:37,804 --> 00:16:40,365
the time. But now that we've grown, now

450
00:16:40,365 --> 00:16:42,839
that we've experienced life more, we can go

451
00:16:42,839 --> 00:16:44,299
back to those experiences.

452
00:16:44,839 --> 00:16:46,919
We can go back to those experiences and

453
00:16:46,919 --> 00:16:49,879
say, you know what? I can process this

454
00:16:49,879 --> 00:16:52,459
now, and I'm going to process this

455
00:16:52,839 --> 00:16:55,399
so that it's no longer screaming, hey. Go

456
00:16:55,399 --> 00:16:57,419
over to this other destructive behavior.

457
00:16:57,745 --> 00:16:58,245
It's

458
00:16:58,785 --> 00:17:01,585
now something that I can pull back into

459
00:17:01,585 --> 00:17:03,605
my soul in a peaceful,

460
00:17:04,305 --> 00:17:06,325
restful state and say,

461
00:17:06,705 --> 00:17:09,904
hey. We're okay. We've made peace. This little

462
00:17:09,904 --> 00:17:12,649
guy and me, who we're friends now and

463
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:15,049
don't have to have that same trigger again.

464
00:17:15,269 --> 00:17:16,789
Yeah. I love the framing of taking, you

465
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:18,789
know, take your demons to lunch where you're

466
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:19,289
actually

467
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:22,470
focused on what the problem actually is rather

468
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:23,369
than the behavior.

469
00:17:23,775 --> 00:17:25,535
And, again, taking them to lunch, you know,

470
00:17:25,535 --> 00:17:27,955
that's, seems like a very benign

471
00:17:28,414 --> 00:17:30,174
way to phrase it, but it can be

472
00:17:30,174 --> 00:17:32,734
maybe more complex for some than others depending

473
00:17:32,734 --> 00:17:35,055
on the trauma or the situation where maybe

474
00:17:35,055 --> 00:17:38,080
professional help is needed or intensive coaching

475
00:17:38,539 --> 00:17:40,299
or could just be, you know, I'm I'm

476
00:17:40,299 --> 00:17:42,380
gonna process this or take it to prayer

477
00:17:42,380 --> 00:17:45,099
and try and, you know, surrender this demon,

478
00:17:45,099 --> 00:17:46,640
the shame to the savior.

479
00:17:47,019 --> 00:17:49,119
Yeah. And that's one of the keys is

480
00:17:49,660 --> 00:17:50,720
it's crazy because

481
00:17:51,325 --> 00:17:51,825
clinically,

482
00:17:52,445 --> 00:17:55,325
you can see addiction in the brain. There's

483
00:17:55,325 --> 00:17:57,164
tests you can do, clinical tests that you

484
00:17:57,164 --> 00:17:59,805
can do to say, is someone clinically addicted

485
00:17:59,805 --> 00:18:00,384
to pornography?

486
00:18:00,924 --> 00:18:04,390
And most men are not. They're not addicted

487
00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:07,049
to pornography. What they're addicted to is shame.

488
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:10,150
And I think this is a really key

489
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:11,210
piece of the puzzle.

490
00:18:11,670 --> 00:18:13,130
There's there's four elements

491
00:18:13,509 --> 00:18:14,890
to the issue of pornography.

492
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:16,650
The first is sexual.

493
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:18,410
The second is physical,

494
00:18:18,894 --> 00:18:19,714
which is different.

495
00:18:20,255 --> 00:18:22,434
The third is habitual,

496
00:18:22,734 --> 00:18:24,115
and the fourth is emotional.

497
00:18:24,414 --> 00:18:26,734
And I'm actually doing this research right now,

498
00:18:26,734 --> 00:18:28,414
right at the moment, is to figure out

499
00:18:28,414 --> 00:18:29,315
what percentages

500
00:18:29,775 --> 00:18:31,234
of these are

501
00:18:31,615 --> 00:18:32,914
contributing to the problem.

502
00:18:33,470 --> 00:18:36,109
And believe it or not, sexual is actually

503
00:18:36,109 --> 00:18:36,769
the smallest.

504
00:18:37,150 --> 00:18:40,109
Sexual is the smallest component of the the

505
00:18:40,109 --> 00:18:43,009
issue. Then comes physical, third is habitual,

506
00:18:43,390 --> 00:18:44,930
but all three of those

507
00:18:45,549 --> 00:18:46,930
don't even come close

508
00:18:47,549 --> 00:18:48,369
to the emotional.

509
00:18:48,914 --> 00:18:49,414
Yeah.

510
00:18:49,715 --> 00:18:50,615
That's what I'm saying.

511
00:18:52,115 --> 00:18:53,555
Cause we want to, we want to default

512
00:18:53,555 --> 00:18:55,075
to it because on the surface that looks

513
00:18:55,075 --> 00:18:57,315
completely sexual, you know, like, oh yeah, what's

514
00:18:57,315 --> 00:18:59,894
the problem here? Like, don't you have appropriate

515
00:19:00,515 --> 00:19:03,400
ways to address this, the sexuality urges or

516
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:04,759
whatever? Or maybe you should do more of

517
00:19:04,759 --> 00:19:05,900
that or less or whatever.

518
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,039
But there's so much more going on under

519
00:19:08,039 --> 00:19:08,619
the surface.

520
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,960
Yeah. In our program, in the eight week

521
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,920
pornography recovery program, we talk very little about

522
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:15,420
pornography.

523
00:19:16,039 --> 00:19:19,894
Like, very little. It's all about the triggers.

524
00:19:20,275 --> 00:19:22,295
And that's one of the differences is sobriety

525
00:19:22,355 --> 00:19:24,775
says, let's focus on the pornography.

526
00:19:25,474 --> 00:19:28,434
Recovery says, let's focus on the need for

527
00:19:28,434 --> 00:19:29,095
the pornography.

528
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,579
Once that need disappears,

529
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,380
the behavior, it just dissolves.

530
00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:36,920
It just goes away on its own. When

531
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,380
the need isn't there anymore,

532
00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:41,559
then the behavior, it's gone too. Love it.

533
00:19:41,559 --> 00:19:43,414
So I wanna ask about this addiction to

534
00:19:43,414 --> 00:19:45,414
shame. This is really interesting because it's almost

535
00:19:45,414 --> 00:19:46,154
like this

536
00:19:46,535 --> 00:19:49,434
like, it's, this, like, false loop. Right? Because

537
00:19:49,654 --> 00:19:50,315
the shame

538
00:19:50,855 --> 00:19:52,715
feels terrible, but it also

539
00:19:53,095 --> 00:19:54,934
helps you feel. Because when, you know, when

540
00:19:54,934 --> 00:19:57,650
you're so, you know, stuck in that addiction

541
00:19:57,710 --> 00:19:59,630
thing, the problem is is you're having a

542
00:19:59,630 --> 00:20:02,750
real hard time regulating your your natural emotions.

543
00:20:02,750 --> 00:20:04,429
Right? You're maybe having a hard time connecting

544
00:20:04,429 --> 00:20:05,490
with people. And so

545
00:20:05,869 --> 00:20:07,950
going to something like pornography that is so

546
00:20:07,950 --> 00:20:10,265
intense and so, like, in your face,

547
00:20:10,644 --> 00:20:14,025
you feel something dramatic, and then that perpetuate

548
00:20:14,164 --> 00:20:15,924
shame. You feel that shame, and then it's

549
00:20:15,924 --> 00:20:17,384
like, oh, no. Like,

550
00:20:17,845 --> 00:20:20,085
you feel terrible, but then later, you can't

551
00:20:20,085 --> 00:20:21,605
help but go back to it. Right? It's

552
00:20:21,684 --> 00:20:24,179
this is terrible loop. It is. That that's

553
00:20:24,179 --> 00:20:25,779
a great way to put it is it's

554
00:20:25,779 --> 00:20:26,440
a loop.

555
00:20:26,740 --> 00:20:27,240
And

556
00:20:27,619 --> 00:20:29,619
one of the best things that we can

557
00:20:29,619 --> 00:20:32,740
do to help our members, help our kids,

558
00:20:32,740 --> 00:20:34,679
help anyone with this problem

559
00:20:35,059 --> 00:20:38,315
is to address the shame. Mhmm. Like, it's

560
00:20:38,315 --> 00:20:40,715
so easy to say, okay, you had a

561
00:20:40,715 --> 00:20:41,215
relapse.

562
00:20:41,674 --> 00:20:42,174
Alright.

563
00:20:42,555 --> 00:20:44,474
Where were you? What time was it? All

564
00:20:44,474 --> 00:20:47,134
of these things. And completely ignore

565
00:20:47,994 --> 00:20:48,974
what came before

566
00:20:49,515 --> 00:20:50,255
the relapse.

567
00:20:50,634 --> 00:20:51,134
Mhmm.

568
00:20:51,434 --> 00:20:52,815
That's where it's solved.

569
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,720
It's not solved in how many filters do

570
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,160
you have and how many hymns can you

571
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,600
sing and how many scriptures do you have

572
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,920
memorized. That's not where it's solved. Where it's

573
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,619
solved is what came before.

574
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,000
And that's where it's really important. That's where

575
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,000
we get into this idea of guilt and

576
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,144
shame is

577
00:21:08,684 --> 00:21:11,644
guilt says, I did something wrong, and I

578
00:21:11,644 --> 00:21:14,045
wanna repair. If you look at the etymology

579
00:21:14,045 --> 00:21:16,045
of the word guilt, it actually comes from

580
00:21:16,045 --> 00:21:18,765
Gildan, which is an old English word that

581
00:21:18,765 --> 00:21:22,125
means to make whole, to repay or make

582
00:21:22,125 --> 00:21:25,009
whole. That's what guilt is. Guilt is beautiful,

583
00:21:25,390 --> 00:21:26,369
healthy emotion.

584
00:21:26,909 --> 00:21:27,409
Shame

585
00:21:28,029 --> 00:21:30,829
is the lowest frequency emotion we can feel.

586
00:21:30,829 --> 00:21:33,169
And the reason this is important is because

587
00:21:33,470 --> 00:21:36,210
guilt says I did something wrong. Shame says

588
00:21:36,349 --> 00:21:37,329
I am wrong.

589
00:21:37,634 --> 00:21:39,174
Guilt says I made a mistake.

590
00:21:39,795 --> 00:21:42,835
Shame says my existence on earth is a

591
00:21:42,835 --> 00:21:43,335
mistake.

592
00:21:43,875 --> 00:21:44,375
And

593
00:21:44,674 --> 00:21:46,934
understanding the two is really critical

594
00:21:47,315 --> 00:21:48,615
because every

595
00:21:48,994 --> 00:21:51,335
counterfeit emotion actually points

596
00:21:51,875 --> 00:21:52,695
to the authentic.

597
00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:55,819
Is shame says I need to get into

598
00:21:55,819 --> 00:21:56,319
guilt.

599
00:21:56,779 --> 00:21:59,019
And Breton a Brown as well as the

600
00:21:59,019 --> 00:22:00,079
University of Oslo,

601
00:22:00,460 --> 00:22:02,240
they did similar studies,

602
00:22:02,619 --> 00:22:03,599
and they found

603
00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:06,240
if you want to get into bullying,

604
00:22:06,619 --> 00:22:07,679
criminal behaviors,

605
00:22:08,234 --> 00:22:09,775
pornography, or any addiction,

606
00:22:10,315 --> 00:22:11,454
suicidal ideation,

607
00:22:11,914 --> 00:22:14,894
get into shame. Shame is the direct path

608
00:22:15,355 --> 00:22:16,414
into those things.

609
00:22:16,795 --> 00:22:18,954
But then they flipped the study, and they

610
00:22:18,954 --> 00:22:20,815
said, well, what about guilt?

611
00:22:21,115 --> 00:22:22,894
And they found this was fascinating.

612
00:22:23,329 --> 00:22:25,170
First time that I've seen a study like

613
00:22:25,170 --> 00:22:27,569
this, they found that guilt was the way

614
00:22:27,569 --> 00:22:30,150
out. You wanna get out of

615
00:22:30,529 --> 00:22:32,849
suicidal ideation, get into guilt. You wanna get

616
00:22:32,849 --> 00:22:35,505
out of pornography addiction, get into guilt.

617
00:22:36,144 --> 00:22:38,325
Yeah. It was a recent guess, and I'm

618
00:22:38,464 --> 00:22:40,144
only got a thousand episodes of my brain

619
00:22:40,144 --> 00:22:41,585
that I have to parse through. But I

620
00:22:41,585 --> 00:22:43,505
forget who it was exactly, but I really

621
00:22:43,505 --> 00:22:44,005
appreciated

622
00:22:44,464 --> 00:22:45,285
how they framed

623
00:22:45,664 --> 00:22:48,325
this dichotomy of guilt and and shame where

624
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,019
when someone's feeling guilt, they're typically motivated.

625
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,240
Yes. They feel a sense of motivated to

626
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,200
change for the better. When they're feeling shame,

627
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,160
they feel like, almost like depression. Like, what's

628
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,400
the use? You know, I keep messing up.

629
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:02,759
You know, this is just who I am

630
00:23:02,759 --> 00:23:04,424
type of thing. And so I I really

631
00:23:04,424 --> 00:23:06,505
appreciated that where it's like, if you're feeling

632
00:23:06,505 --> 00:23:08,025
it some people think, okay. Am I feeling

633
00:23:08,025 --> 00:23:09,464
guilt or shame right now? Well, are you

634
00:23:09,464 --> 00:23:09,964
motivated

635
00:23:10,265 --> 00:23:12,105
to do better and keep trying? Then that's

636
00:23:12,105 --> 00:23:15,384
typically guilt. Yeah. If guilt is driving you

637
00:23:15,704 --> 00:23:17,085
is connecting you

638
00:23:17,464 --> 00:23:19,244
to your true self,

639
00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:20,259
to

640
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:23,679
God, to Christ. If it's connecting you, you

641
00:23:23,679 --> 00:23:26,259
know that's guilt. If it's saying disconnect,

642
00:23:26,639 --> 00:23:28,639
stop going to church, don't talk to the

643
00:23:28,639 --> 00:23:30,960
bishop, don't talk to mom and dad, that's

644
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,700
shame. Shame is saying you're pretty worthless.

645
00:23:34,045 --> 00:23:35,345
Whereas guilt is,

646
00:23:35,724 --> 00:23:38,625
hey, there's an issue that I can repair,

647
00:23:38,765 --> 00:23:41,644
and I'm going to. That word motivated, that's

648
00:23:41,644 --> 00:23:44,224
one of the cores of guilt. Yeah.

649
00:23:44,525 --> 00:23:47,089
Any thoughts on this question here? How do

650
00:23:47,089 --> 00:23:49,190
you work with someone to help them identify

651
00:23:49,250 --> 00:23:51,890
and surface their demons without counseling? Is it

652
00:23:51,890 --> 00:23:52,390
possible?

653
00:23:52,690 --> 00:23:54,769
What tools are available? How would you respond

654
00:23:54,769 --> 00:23:55,990
to that? Yeah.

655
00:23:56,289 --> 00:23:59,029
Whoever said this question, thank you.

656
00:23:59,455 --> 00:24:01,375
Thank you for this question because it's so

657
00:24:01,375 --> 00:24:01,875
important.

658
00:24:02,494 --> 00:24:03,315
As a parent

659
00:24:03,934 --> 00:24:05,555
or as a leader, as a bishop,

660
00:24:05,934 --> 00:24:07,695
one of the things that I would suggest

661
00:24:07,695 --> 00:24:09,234
if anyone ever says,

662
00:24:09,615 --> 00:24:11,615
hey. I've been looking at pornography. I've come

663
00:24:11,615 --> 00:24:14,494
to, you know, I've come to confess anything

664
00:24:14,494 --> 00:24:16,710
like that. The very first thing I would

665
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:18,250
say to them is thank you.

666
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:19,369
Thank you

667
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:22,470
for sharing with this with me. I know

668
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:24,950
that this is hard, and I'm so grateful

669
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:26,330
for that. And

670
00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:28,730
the question isn't about the pornography.

671
00:24:29,109 --> 00:24:31,565
The question is what came before

672
00:24:32,345 --> 00:24:32,845
pornography?

673
00:24:33,224 --> 00:24:34,444
What were you feeling?

674
00:24:34,825 --> 00:24:37,484
What were the important emotions inside of you

675
00:24:37,625 --> 00:24:40,184
that were screaming? You know? What was the

676
00:24:40,184 --> 00:24:42,605
little demon that was screaming in your skull

677
00:24:42,890 --> 00:24:43,630
that was

678
00:24:43,930 --> 00:24:46,650
saying, hey. This pain is too much. And

679
00:24:46,650 --> 00:24:48,590
I can go over here to this numbing,

680
00:24:49,210 --> 00:24:51,450
distracting behavior so I don't have to look

681
00:24:51,450 --> 00:24:52,190
at the pain.

682
00:24:52,490 --> 00:24:53,789
Instead, say,

683
00:24:54,170 --> 00:24:55,549
let's identify that.

684
00:24:55,850 --> 00:24:57,775
Let's do it. In my program, we call

685
00:24:57,775 --> 00:25:00,255
it the whole method, w h o l

686
00:25:00,255 --> 00:25:02,914
e. And we go through these five steps

687
00:25:03,455 --> 00:25:04,755
to be able to identify,

688
00:25:05,295 --> 00:25:06,755
okay, what is the emotion?

689
00:25:07,295 --> 00:25:09,375
Now let's go through and process this and

690
00:25:09,375 --> 00:25:12,299
figure out how do we get whole again.

691
00:25:12,599 --> 00:25:14,619
And one of the most misunderstood

692
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:15,500
scriptures

693
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,919
in all of scripture, I believe, is Matthew

694
00:25:18,919 --> 00:25:21,019
five forty eight that says,

695
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:22,619
be therefore perfect

696
00:25:23,159 --> 00:25:24,839
even as your father, which in heaven is

697
00:25:24,839 --> 00:25:25,339
perfect.

698
00:25:25,845 --> 00:25:27,845
And the reason I believe this is one

699
00:25:27,845 --> 00:25:29,785
of the most misunderstood scriptures

700
00:25:30,244 --> 00:25:32,005
is because you have to pair it with

701
00:25:32,005 --> 00:25:35,464
third Nephi twelve forty eight. In third Nephi,

702
00:25:36,085 --> 00:25:37,944
Christ says something very different,

703
00:25:38,484 --> 00:25:39,625
but so close.

704
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,900
In third Nephi, Christ says, be therefore perfect

705
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:43,940
even as

706
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,900
I or your father which aren't in heaven

707
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:47,700
is perfect.

708
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,339
In Matthew, he doesn't use the word I.

709
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,700
It's not in there.

710
00:25:52,079 --> 00:25:53,839
He doesn't say I. He just says the

711
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:55,460
father. It's not until after

712
00:25:55,904 --> 00:25:56,644
his resurrection,

713
00:25:57,025 --> 00:25:57,525
after

714
00:25:57,904 --> 00:26:00,484
his atonement, after his ascension to the father

715
00:26:00,705 --> 00:26:02,725
that then he includes himself.

716
00:26:03,105 --> 00:26:05,045
And if you look at the Greek translation,

717
00:26:05,825 --> 00:26:07,924
it's not perfect. It's not infallible.

718
00:26:08,384 --> 00:26:10,085
Christ doesn't say be infallible.

719
00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:12,079
He says be whole.

720
00:26:12,779 --> 00:26:14,480
Be ye therefore whole.

721
00:26:14,859 --> 00:26:17,019
And if you think about how many pieces

722
00:26:17,019 --> 00:26:20,319
of our soul that we fracture or exile

723
00:26:20,380 --> 00:26:22,299
or say, you don't get to be a

724
00:26:22,299 --> 00:26:25,134
part of me, We can't be whole if

725
00:26:25,134 --> 00:26:27,234
we're exiling pieces of us.

726
00:26:27,535 --> 00:26:30,095
We can't be whole if we're saying, nope.

727
00:26:30,095 --> 00:26:32,434
I don't like you. You go over there.

728
00:26:32,575 --> 00:26:34,494
These little guys are part of our life,

729
00:26:34,494 --> 00:26:35,875
part of our lived experience,

730
00:26:36,299 --> 00:26:37,279
part of our soul.

731
00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:39,660
And it's not until we bring them back

732
00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:41,840
in in a place of peace and rest

733
00:26:42,220 --> 00:26:44,860
that we can truly become whole. Yeah. And

734
00:26:44,860 --> 00:26:46,779
I wanna highlight here, like, we often talk

735
00:26:46,779 --> 00:26:49,420
about addiction or demons in the context of

736
00:26:49,420 --> 00:26:49,920
addiction

737
00:26:50,365 --> 00:26:52,224
or other, you know, stigmatized

738
00:26:52,605 --> 00:26:53,105
negative,

739
00:26:53,484 --> 00:26:53,984
behaviors.

740
00:26:54,365 --> 00:26:56,444
However, we all have demons. You know, we

741
00:26:56,444 --> 00:26:58,284
may say, well, I don't struggle with, you

742
00:26:58,284 --> 00:27:01,964
know, alcoholism, pornography struggles. You know? I'm generally

743
00:27:01,964 --> 00:27:03,644
pretty good person. I guess I'm just don't

744
00:27:03,644 --> 00:27:05,024
have demons. In reality,

745
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,320
we all have demons, but some people go

746
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,539
to more stigmatized

747
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,279
behaviors than others where there's very positive things

748
00:27:13,279 --> 00:27:15,220
that you can almost get addicted to

749
00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:17,119
that because of the demons you have in

750
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,115
your life, but they're not stigmatized in society.

751
00:27:19,115 --> 00:27:20,875
Right? It could be overworking and people think,

752
00:27:20,875 --> 00:27:22,875
wow. You're just, like, such a hard worker

753
00:27:22,875 --> 00:27:25,514
or, like, super religious where you think, I

754
00:27:25,514 --> 00:27:27,514
mean, it'd be super religious and then nobody

755
00:27:27,514 --> 00:27:29,434
has to know the pain I'm dealing with

756
00:27:29,434 --> 00:27:31,660
inside. Right? And so I always invite people

757
00:27:31,660 --> 00:27:33,180
as we talk about these things. Let's just

758
00:27:33,180 --> 00:27:35,180
not say, man, this group over here that

759
00:27:35,180 --> 00:27:37,900
looks at pornography, and we kinda they just

760
00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:40,059
figure out their demons. It's like, no. This

761
00:27:40,059 --> 00:27:40,799
is mortality.

762
00:27:41,180 --> 00:27:43,259
Like, we're all broken. We're all wounded. We

763
00:27:43,259 --> 00:27:45,154
all need a redemptive savior.

764
00:27:45,535 --> 00:27:46,674
Yeah. And destigmatizing

765
00:27:47,134 --> 00:27:49,455
it is so important. Yeah. Getting rid of

766
00:27:49,455 --> 00:27:51,695
the shame. They actually did a survey and

767
00:27:51,695 --> 00:27:52,434
asked people

768
00:27:52,894 --> 00:27:55,475
which is better, someone that looks at pornography

769
00:27:55,695 --> 00:27:58,410
or someone that's on the streets addicted to

770
00:27:58,410 --> 00:27:59,309
meth and cocaine,

771
00:27:59,690 --> 00:28:01,849
you know, and robbing and stealing and committing

772
00:28:01,849 --> 00:28:02,349
crimes?

773
00:28:02,650 --> 00:28:04,809
And they said that person, not the person

774
00:28:04,809 --> 00:28:05,710
looking at pornography.

775
00:28:06,169 --> 00:28:07,950
Like, it's so stigmatized.

776
00:28:08,730 --> 00:28:11,069
And the truth is we all have triggers.

777
00:28:11,369 --> 00:28:13,184
We all have triggers. And just like you

778
00:28:13,184 --> 00:28:15,184
said, it could be overworking. It could be

779
00:28:15,184 --> 00:28:16,404
shopping. It could be

780
00:28:16,704 --> 00:28:19,664
excessive exercise. It could be things that we're

781
00:28:19,664 --> 00:28:22,644
like, oh, yeah. Every single one of those

782
00:28:23,184 --> 00:28:25,125
are just another way to distract

783
00:28:25,664 --> 00:28:26,164
from

784
00:28:26,464 --> 00:28:27,284
what's inside.

785
00:28:27,585 --> 00:28:28,085
Yeah.

786
00:28:28,390 --> 00:28:29,910
The other part of this question I wanted

787
00:28:29,910 --> 00:28:30,809
to highlight is,

788
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:33,509
you know, can you basically reconcile these demons

789
00:28:33,509 --> 00:28:34,569
without counseling?

790
00:28:35,109 --> 00:28:37,509
And this is sort of the the tricky

791
00:28:37,509 --> 00:28:40,470
thing about mortality is is I've heard and

792
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:43,049
seen stories of deeply addicted individuals

793
00:28:43,654 --> 00:28:45,815
who just for whatever reason without a bit

794
00:28:45,815 --> 00:28:48,054
of professional help, they just change and they're

795
00:28:48,054 --> 00:28:50,075
able to reconcile them or they have experience

796
00:28:50,134 --> 00:28:52,875
helping that. And others have maybe more minor,

797
00:28:53,095 --> 00:28:55,335
you know, quote, unquote, minor trauma or whatever

798
00:28:55,335 --> 00:28:57,335
that that, yeah, they need some professional help.

799
00:28:57,335 --> 00:28:59,799
So it's I would say and Curtis, maybe

800
00:28:59,859 --> 00:29:01,859
I'm open to to push back on this,

801
00:29:01,859 --> 00:29:04,579
but there's not everybody needs this one program

802
00:29:04,579 --> 00:29:06,500
or this one therapist or this one type

803
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:08,339
of therapy. But to me, that's where it's

804
00:29:08,339 --> 00:29:10,119
like, well, lean in. If if it's helping,

805
00:29:10,259 --> 00:29:11,799
it sounds like a path you should continue

806
00:29:11,859 --> 00:29:14,045
down. But if you may be recommended the

807
00:29:14,045 --> 00:29:15,404
best therapist and you go there and you're

808
00:29:15,404 --> 00:29:16,684
just sort of hitting a wall or the

809
00:29:16,684 --> 00:29:18,525
loved ones hitting a wall, it's like, this

810
00:29:18,525 --> 00:29:20,684
is not working for me, then great. Try

811
00:29:20,684 --> 00:29:24,205
something else. Yeah. Yeah. And I had Todd

812
00:29:24,205 --> 00:29:27,230
Sylvester on my podcast today on the Counterfeit

813
00:29:27,230 --> 00:29:28,130
Motions podcast.

814
00:29:28,509 --> 00:29:30,910
Yeah. He said, still Kurt. Hi. So Now

815
00:29:30,910 --> 00:29:32,430
we've had him on. It's in the library,

816
00:29:32,430 --> 00:29:35,150
so definitely check it out. Yeah. He's such

817
00:29:35,150 --> 00:29:37,570
an amazing man. And he shared his story.

818
00:29:37,789 --> 00:29:39,710
There was a you know, it took him

819
00:29:39,710 --> 00:29:41,549
years, but then one day, he said, I'm

820
00:29:41,549 --> 00:29:44,494
done. And that was today, thirty six years

821
00:29:44,494 --> 00:29:47,134
ago. Oh, wow. He stopped. Yeah. He's got

822
00:29:47,134 --> 00:29:48,195
an inspiring story.

823
00:29:48,575 --> 00:29:51,555
So inspiring. Oh, love that man so much.

824
00:29:51,775 --> 00:29:54,275
And it was just like you said,

825
00:29:54,575 --> 00:29:56,674
you know, it's when the person

826
00:29:57,289 --> 00:29:58,029
is ready,

827
00:29:58,409 --> 00:30:01,150
that's when their their heart will open.

828
00:30:01,609 --> 00:30:04,429
But can we do it without therapy? Yeah.

829
00:30:04,490 --> 00:30:06,890
Can we do it faster with a program

830
00:30:06,890 --> 00:30:07,869
or with therapy?

831
00:30:08,329 --> 00:30:08,829
Absolutely.

832
00:30:09,289 --> 00:30:11,404
And one thing so that is

833
00:30:11,785 --> 00:30:14,205
kind of the the secret sauce of what

834
00:30:14,345 --> 00:30:16,924
we do with the counterfeit emotions recovery program

835
00:30:17,384 --> 00:30:20,045
is that we actually have men

836
00:30:20,585 --> 00:30:23,279
call each other every single day. So they

837
00:30:23,519 --> 00:30:24,820
we call it peer calls.

838
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,279
And every day, there's at least two peer

839
00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:30,259
calls that each man will make to process

840
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,059
their emotions.

841
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,680
And you think, okay. That's a thing to

842
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,215
help them process, but it actually serves a

843
00:30:36,215 --> 00:30:38,955
second purpose. The second purpose is connection.

844
00:30:39,575 --> 00:30:41,515
Connection is so important.

845
00:30:42,055 --> 00:30:44,215
If you look at, you know, going back

846
00:30:44,215 --> 00:30:45,115
into the research,

847
00:30:45,575 --> 00:30:48,295
the you know, you have these studies that

848
00:30:48,295 --> 00:30:50,634
say cocaine is so addictive that rats

849
00:30:51,150 --> 00:30:53,230
will, you know, they'll give up food and

850
00:30:53,230 --> 00:30:55,970
water just for cocaine, and they'll kill themselves

851
00:30:56,029 --> 00:30:57,570
because cocaine is so addictive.

852
00:30:58,029 --> 00:30:59,170
That's accurate

853
00:30:59,549 --> 00:31:01,970
if there's only one rat in one cage.

854
00:31:02,750 --> 00:31:04,849
But what they found is when they put

855
00:31:05,230 --> 00:31:05,730
families

856
00:31:06,355 --> 00:31:07,414
of rats together,

857
00:31:07,714 --> 00:31:09,815
the rats left the behavior

858
00:31:10,274 --> 00:31:11,014
of cocaine.

859
00:31:11,315 --> 00:31:12,615
They stopped entirely

860
00:31:13,394 --> 00:31:14,934
because they had connection.

861
00:31:15,474 --> 00:31:18,054
And addiction often is the replacement

862
00:31:18,355 --> 00:31:19,174
for connection.

863
00:31:19,579 --> 00:31:21,440
And that's why we have these men

864
00:31:21,740 --> 00:31:24,240
every single day making these calls so that

865
00:31:24,380 --> 00:31:26,940
they can connect with others on a vulnerable

866
00:31:26,940 --> 00:31:29,119
level, on a way that they can say,

867
00:31:29,259 --> 00:31:31,740
yeah. I see you. I understand you. I

868
00:31:31,740 --> 00:31:34,585
can validate what you're going through. Yeah. And

869
00:31:34,585 --> 00:31:36,904
that's the thing with, you know, even, you

870
00:31:36,904 --> 00:31:38,904
know, the even the relationship with maybe a

871
00:31:38,904 --> 00:31:41,805
a bishop. Right? Like, sometimes people just having

872
00:31:41,945 --> 00:31:44,585
somebody that they trust, they can go and

873
00:31:44,585 --> 00:31:46,904
talk to about this. Even that amount of

874
00:31:46,904 --> 00:31:48,445
community and connection sometimes

875
00:31:48,809 --> 00:31:51,549
really, you know, helps that individual dramatically.

876
00:31:52,250 --> 00:31:54,649
Or there it's the question of because I

877
00:31:54,649 --> 00:31:56,089
think as a church leader, as a parent,

878
00:31:56,089 --> 00:31:57,450
we wanna go to this place of, like,

879
00:31:57,450 --> 00:31:59,529
let's dial in the behavior. Like, let's get

880
00:31:59,529 --> 00:32:02,109
the Internet filter dialed in. Let's, you know,

881
00:32:02,250 --> 00:32:04,089
be accountable to me or someone every night

882
00:32:04,089 --> 00:32:06,144
or wherever it is. But it's to me,

883
00:32:06,144 --> 00:32:08,144
it's more asking the question. So what do

884
00:32:08,144 --> 00:32:09,585
you like to do for fun and who

885
00:32:09,585 --> 00:32:11,105
do you do it with? And you'll often

886
00:32:11,105 --> 00:32:13,265
hear, like, well, I'm busy or I don't

887
00:32:13,265 --> 00:32:15,585
really have hobbies anymore. I don't have friends

888
00:32:15,585 --> 00:32:17,265
or now you have something to work with

889
00:32:17,265 --> 00:32:19,220
and be like, how can we develop relationship,

890
00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:22,400
a connection, community for you, and that'll be

891
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:22,900
dramatic

892
00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:23,779
progress.

893
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,640
Yeah. That's it. It's the community. It's getting

894
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,019
them connected again

895
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,740
because the shame the shame says disconnect.

896
00:32:31,204 --> 00:32:33,144
Mhmm. And when we can destigmatize

897
00:32:33,525 --> 00:32:35,865
that shame, that's one of the main

898
00:32:36,164 --> 00:32:38,505
main things that start to heal.

899
00:32:38,805 --> 00:32:41,125
And on the note of shame, like, it's

900
00:32:41,125 --> 00:32:42,345
crazy to me because

901
00:32:43,045 --> 00:32:45,299
with all of the not all the programs.

902
00:32:45,539 --> 00:32:47,880
With so many programs out there,

903
00:32:48,259 --> 00:32:50,680
every single meeting starts with shame.

904
00:32:50,980 --> 00:32:52,920
It starts the meeting with shame.

905
00:32:53,220 --> 00:32:55,000
Stand up and say, hi.

906
00:32:55,299 --> 00:32:56,119
I'm Curtis.

907
00:32:56,580 --> 00:32:57,400
I'm a pornography

908
00:32:57,700 --> 00:32:58,200
addict.

909
00:32:58,820 --> 00:32:59,320
And

910
00:32:59,700 --> 00:33:00,920
it paints this

911
00:33:01,275 --> 00:33:04,075
title that is nailed to their chest of

912
00:33:04,075 --> 00:33:04,575
addict.

913
00:33:04,955 --> 00:33:07,755
Right? And that's a shame statement saying, you

914
00:33:07,755 --> 00:33:09,914
are an addict if you think about, like,

915
00:33:09,914 --> 00:33:12,555
I'm an athlete. Well, what do athletes do?

916
00:33:12,555 --> 00:33:14,555
They wake up early. They eat healthy. They

917
00:33:14,555 --> 00:33:16,394
exercise every day. They hang out with other

918
00:33:16,394 --> 00:33:18,710
athletes. You know, they look at YouTube

919
00:33:19,009 --> 00:33:21,650
for their event. That's what athletes do. What

920
00:33:21,650 --> 00:33:24,369
does an addict do? An addict does the

921
00:33:24,369 --> 00:33:27,650
things an addict does. An athlete does the

922
00:33:27,650 --> 00:33:31,410
things that athletes do. And removing that title

923
00:33:31,410 --> 00:33:34,125
of I'm an addict and removing the stigma

924
00:33:34,125 --> 00:33:36,285
that once an addict, always an addict, that

925
00:33:36,285 --> 00:33:39,565
is not true. Oh, Kurt. This is one

926
00:33:39,565 --> 00:33:41,025
that that gets me because

927
00:33:41,404 --> 00:33:43,644
this idea, once an addict, always an addict.

928
00:33:43,644 --> 00:33:45,085
You're gonna deal with this the rest of

929
00:33:45,085 --> 00:33:48,125
your life. That denies the atonement of Jesus

930
00:33:48,125 --> 00:33:48,625
Christ.

931
00:33:49,140 --> 00:33:52,340
That says, I can fall farther than Christ

932
00:33:52,340 --> 00:33:53,000
can reach.

933
00:33:53,380 --> 00:33:54,519
It is absolutely

934
00:33:55,220 --> 00:33:56,119
not true

935
00:33:56,420 --> 00:33:58,740
that you do not have to carry this

936
00:33:58,740 --> 00:34:01,000
with you your whole life. You don't.

937
00:34:01,299 --> 00:34:03,704
And I've seen it. I've seen it personally

938
00:34:03,704 --> 00:34:06,505
with all these men that have gone through

939
00:34:06,505 --> 00:34:09,784
this where they can be done, and there's

940
00:34:09,784 --> 00:34:11,945
so much hope in that. There's so much

941
00:34:11,945 --> 00:34:14,824
hope in the idea that I don't have

942
00:34:14,824 --> 00:34:16,184
to live with this the rest of my

943
00:34:16,184 --> 00:34:17,300
life. I don't

944
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,680
have to wake up every morning with a

945
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,320
pit in my stomach thinking is today my

946
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,059
last day.

947
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,619
Yeah. I'm curious of this question,

948
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:27,460
if you have any deeper

949
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,885
perspective on this. Can you please talk about

950
00:34:29,885 --> 00:34:32,204
resources for women who struggle with pornography or

951
00:34:32,204 --> 00:34:33,585
other unwanted sexual

952
00:34:34,125 --> 00:34:36,525
behaviors? Is there I mean, when we talk

953
00:34:36,525 --> 00:34:39,085
about demons and addressing trauma and things, is

954
00:34:39,085 --> 00:34:41,005
there anything we should consider with the the

955
00:34:41,005 --> 00:34:42,065
male female dynamic?

956
00:34:42,445 --> 00:34:43,824
Yeah. The National Institute

957
00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:46,239
or excuse me, the National Library of Medicine,

958
00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:48,960
they did a study a couple years back,

959
00:34:49,260 --> 00:34:52,539
and they said within the last month, have

960
00:34:52,539 --> 00:34:53,599
you looked at pornography?

961
00:34:54,219 --> 00:34:54,719
And

962
00:34:55,019 --> 00:34:56,719
they separated male and female.

963
00:34:57,025 --> 00:34:57,764
The men

964
00:34:58,065 --> 00:35:00,485
were at ninety one point five percent,

965
00:35:01,105 --> 00:35:02,644
almost 100%.

966
00:35:03,105 --> 00:35:06,065
But even more startling than that, the women

967
00:35:06,065 --> 00:35:07,764
were at sixty point five.

968
00:35:08,784 --> 00:35:10,085
This is not a

969
00:35:10,465 --> 00:35:12,599
problem that happens every once in a while.

970
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,400
This is over half of the women and

971
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:16,599
almost 100%

972
00:35:16,599 --> 00:35:18,360
of the men. And those are probably just

973
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:19,579
the ones that were honest.

974
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,900
Those are probably the ones that were honest.

975
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:25,340
And yet

976
00:35:25,704 --> 00:35:27,864
we don't even think of this as an

977
00:35:27,864 --> 00:35:29,405
issue that would affect females.

978
00:35:29,864 --> 00:35:32,844
And yet, with the advent of the Internet

979
00:35:32,984 --> 00:35:34,364
with instant accessibility,

980
00:35:35,065 --> 00:35:35,885
instant gratification,

981
00:35:36,505 --> 00:35:39,005
it's becoming that. It's becoming

982
00:35:39,304 --> 00:35:39,804
something.

983
00:35:40,250 --> 00:35:42,250
And it's crazy. I know we don't have

984
00:35:42,250 --> 00:35:44,269
time to go into the neuroscience on this,

985
00:35:44,329 --> 00:35:46,269
but the, female brain

986
00:35:46,650 --> 00:35:49,389
is very different in the way it processes.

987
00:35:49,849 --> 00:35:53,630
Even the bilateral stimulation between the two hemispheres

988
00:35:53,769 --> 00:35:55,549
of the brain is completely different.

989
00:35:55,994 --> 00:35:56,494
And

990
00:35:57,034 --> 00:35:59,534
and yet it's becoming an issue.

991
00:35:59,835 --> 00:36:00,574
And so

992
00:36:00,875 --> 00:36:03,134
I actually have a friend. She's a therapist,

993
00:36:03,514 --> 00:36:06,954
and she's thinking of completely focusing her practice

994
00:36:06,954 --> 00:36:08,174
on women's pornography

995
00:36:08,554 --> 00:36:12,280
recovery. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody's safe

996
00:36:12,579 --> 00:36:14,679
from this, from this plague for sure.

997
00:36:15,059 --> 00:36:17,619
So then someone else asking, is there a

998
00:36:17,780 --> 00:36:20,179
is hole in let's see. The hole, is

999
00:36:20,179 --> 00:36:21,079
that an acronym?

1000
00:36:21,539 --> 00:36:23,380
Yeah. What does hole stand for? Yeah. What

1001
00:36:23,380 --> 00:36:25,804
does hole stand for? Yeah. So

1002
00:36:26,184 --> 00:36:27,724
whole, the process

1003
00:36:28,264 --> 00:36:29,724
of digging up these demons,

1004
00:36:30,264 --> 00:36:30,764
the

1005
00:36:31,224 --> 00:36:33,244
w in whole is witness.

1006
00:36:33,704 --> 00:36:35,324
So witness the emotion.

1007
00:36:35,784 --> 00:36:38,949
Instead of judging the emotion, just witness. If

1008
00:36:38,949 --> 00:36:41,190
that emotion is pain, if that emotion is

1009
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:44,150
anxiety, if that whatever that emotion is, just

1010
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:44,650
witness.

1011
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:48,630
Kinda like sitting on a grassy hill on

1012
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:50,969
a summer day looking up at the clouds.

1013
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:54,329
Just let those clouds float through. Mhmm.

1014
00:36:54,684 --> 00:36:55,424
The truth

1015
00:36:56,125 --> 00:36:57,744
is we are not our emotions.

1016
00:36:58,125 --> 00:36:59,664
We are not our thoughts.

1017
00:37:00,284 --> 00:37:03,344
And even a transcendent level higher than that

1018
00:37:03,565 --> 00:37:05,824
is we don't have to believe

1019
00:37:06,525 --> 00:37:07,264
our emotions.

1020
00:37:07,724 --> 00:37:10,199
We don't have to believe our thoughts. And

1021
00:37:10,199 --> 00:37:12,119
so many of us think we do. And

1022
00:37:12,119 --> 00:37:14,139
so that first step is just witness.

1023
00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:17,079
Don't put any judgment on the emotion. Don't

1024
00:37:17,079 --> 00:37:19,099
let that emotion drive the bus.

1025
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,679
Just watch it. Just witness that emotion as

1026
00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:24,619
it comes in and it flows out.

1027
00:37:25,065 --> 00:37:27,625
And they did a study of, I believe

1028
00:37:27,625 --> 00:37:28,925
it was Harvard,

1029
00:37:29,385 --> 00:37:31,945
where they looked at how long does an

1030
00:37:31,945 --> 00:37:35,625
emotion last. Most emotions last on average ninety

1031
00:37:35,625 --> 00:37:36,125
seconds.

1032
00:37:36,505 --> 00:37:39,005
So if you can just watch that emotion

1033
00:37:39,309 --> 00:37:41,549
for ninety seconds, that cloud will come into

1034
00:37:41,549 --> 00:37:43,869
view, and that cloud will float right on

1035
00:37:43,869 --> 00:37:44,369
by.

1036
00:37:44,750 --> 00:37:46,449
The second step is harmonize,

1037
00:37:47,069 --> 00:37:49,789
is get harmonized. And what I mean by

1038
00:37:49,789 --> 00:37:50,529
that is

1039
00:37:51,069 --> 00:37:53,925
doctor Daniel Amen, He's one of he may

1040
00:37:53,925 --> 00:37:55,224
be the leading neuroscientist

1041
00:37:55,525 --> 00:37:57,684
in in the world. He when I worked

1042
00:37:57,684 --> 00:37:59,765
at Franklin Covey, he came on our tour

1043
00:37:59,765 --> 00:38:01,684
with us, and he said, I can get

1044
00:38:01,684 --> 00:38:04,905
anyone out of an a complete panic attack

1045
00:38:05,045 --> 00:38:06,819
in three minutes or less. And I'm like,

1046
00:38:06,819 --> 00:38:07,319
what?

1047
00:38:08,099 --> 00:38:10,099
You can you can pull somebody out of

1048
00:38:10,099 --> 00:38:11,319
a panic attack?

1049
00:38:11,619 --> 00:38:14,359
Like, they're full on on the floor hyperventilating.

1050
00:38:15,299 --> 00:38:17,219
And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, how

1051
00:38:17,219 --> 00:38:18,980
do you do that? And he said, I

1052
00:38:18,980 --> 00:38:20,199
just have them breathe.

1053
00:38:20,675 --> 00:38:22,454
I just have them breathe

1054
00:38:22,994 --> 00:38:25,974
deep breaths. Most of us don't breathe.

1055
00:38:26,594 --> 00:38:28,994
Most of us our our breath is that

1056
00:38:28,994 --> 00:38:30,534
shallow all day long.

1057
00:38:30,835 --> 00:38:33,394
And so he does this deep breathing that's

1058
00:38:33,394 --> 00:38:36,460
in for five seconds, out for eight seconds.

1059
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,000
And he does that for ninety seconds, and

1060
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,039
the panic attack is completely gone. Wow. So

1061
00:38:42,039 --> 00:38:44,280
that's one of the pieces of the h

1062
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,139
in whole is harmony.

1063
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:47,500
Harmony. So

1064
00:38:47,835 --> 00:38:50,715
witness and then harmony and then o. The

1065
00:38:50,715 --> 00:38:52,655
o is open your mind.

1066
00:38:52,954 --> 00:38:53,775
Get curious.

1067
00:38:54,155 --> 00:38:57,375
Get curious to say why was I triggered

1068
00:38:57,675 --> 00:38:58,335
by this?

1069
00:38:58,635 --> 00:39:01,514
Our emotions, our triggers are 100%

1070
00:39:01,514 --> 00:39:02,014
ours.

1071
00:39:02,369 --> 00:39:05,170
They are ours to own. They are our

1072
00:39:05,170 --> 00:39:05,670
responsibility.

1073
00:39:05,969 --> 00:39:08,150
So ask yourself, why did I get triggered?

1074
00:39:08,210 --> 00:39:10,210
Not why did anyone else get triggered. Why

1075
00:39:10,210 --> 00:39:12,529
did I get triggered? And open your mind

1076
00:39:12,529 --> 00:39:13,589
and start exploring,

1077
00:39:13,889 --> 00:39:16,049
hey. I got triggered by that. I wonder

1078
00:39:16,049 --> 00:39:17,815
why. And start backtracking

1079
00:39:18,114 --> 00:39:18,934
in your life

1080
00:39:19,234 --> 00:39:19,734
because

1081
00:39:20,355 --> 00:39:21,335
every emotion

1082
00:39:21,795 --> 00:39:23,875
well, let me start at the end. Every

1083
00:39:23,875 --> 00:39:25,734
habit comes from an action.

1084
00:39:26,114 --> 00:39:27,014
Every action

1085
00:39:27,315 --> 00:39:28,534
comes from an emotion.

1086
00:39:29,199 --> 00:39:29,940
Every emotion

1087
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,099
comes from a thought or a belief,

1088
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,019
and every thought or belief

1089
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,099
is formed in an experience.

1090
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,199
If you can open your mind and say,

1091
00:39:39,199 --> 00:39:40,960
okay. Why do I wanna go to this

1092
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,039
action or this habit? Well, it's because of

1093
00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:43,699
this emotion.

1094
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,525
Okay. Well, that came from this belief. Where

1095
00:39:46,525 --> 00:39:48,785
did that belief come from? That came from

1096
00:39:49,005 --> 00:39:49,744
this event.

1097
00:39:50,204 --> 00:39:52,305
So that's the o is open your mind.

1098
00:39:52,605 --> 00:39:55,885
Cool. And the l? L is lead, leading

1099
00:39:55,885 --> 00:39:57,644
the saints. Of course. That's why we're here

1100
00:39:57,644 --> 00:39:58,545
today. Mhmm.

1101
00:39:59,619 --> 00:40:00,519
That's the whole reason.

1102
00:40:00,980 --> 00:40:01,480
Is

1103
00:40:01,860 --> 00:40:03,800
lead your life is say,

1104
00:40:04,179 --> 00:40:06,440
what am I trying to distract from?

1105
00:40:06,739 --> 00:40:09,460
What in me is saying distract? What am

1106
00:40:09,460 --> 00:40:11,860
I trying to hide from, distract from, numb

1107
00:40:11,860 --> 00:40:12,360
from?

1108
00:40:12,755 --> 00:40:14,215
Lead your life and say,

1109
00:40:14,594 --> 00:40:16,835
okay. Am I going to be a victim?

1110
00:40:16,835 --> 00:40:18,594
Am I gonna go into victim mode with

1111
00:40:18,594 --> 00:40:20,515
this emotion? Or am I gonna be a

1112
00:40:20,515 --> 00:40:23,015
victor? And one of the great tools there

1113
00:40:23,315 --> 00:40:25,954
is a victim will ask the question, why

1114
00:40:25,954 --> 00:40:27,574
is this happening to me?

1115
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,480
They'll say this bad event happened. Why is

1116
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,340
this happening to me?

1117
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,900
A victor will change the question

1118
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,380
and will ask, why is this happening

1119
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,539
for me? And that question is so important.

1120
00:40:42,164 --> 00:40:45,125
So asking that question in the l so

1121
00:40:45,125 --> 00:40:46,724
that you can lead your life and you

1122
00:40:46,724 --> 00:40:49,605
can say, it's like one doctrine comments one

1123
00:40:49,605 --> 00:40:50,425
twenty one.

1124
00:40:50,724 --> 00:40:51,945
All of these things

1125
00:40:52,244 --> 00:40:54,324
shall be for your good. Not just the

1126
00:40:54,324 --> 00:40:56,664
ones you like, not the pleasant happy ones.

1127
00:40:57,210 --> 00:40:58,510
All of these things

1128
00:40:58,809 --> 00:41:01,690
will be for your good. So the l

1129
00:41:01,690 --> 00:41:02,829
is lead your life,

1130
00:41:03,369 --> 00:41:04,670
and the e

1131
00:41:04,969 --> 00:41:06,650
the e, this is where the real work

1132
00:41:06,650 --> 00:41:07,150
happens,

1133
00:41:07,690 --> 00:41:09,150
is edit the meaning.

1134
00:41:10,244 --> 00:41:12,585
Is as you go back in that

1135
00:41:12,964 --> 00:41:13,464
process

1136
00:41:13,924 --> 00:41:15,384
and you find that event

1137
00:41:15,764 --> 00:41:18,884
that created that belief that created the action

1138
00:41:18,884 --> 00:41:21,364
that or the emotion that created the action

1139
00:41:21,364 --> 00:41:23,545
and the habit. As you find that,

1140
00:41:23,900 --> 00:41:26,000
that's where the real digging happens.

1141
00:41:26,619 --> 00:41:28,880
That's where the digging happens that says,

1142
00:41:29,260 --> 00:41:30,880
okay, I found the event.

1143
00:41:31,180 --> 00:41:33,420
Now it's time to rewrite the meaning. We

1144
00:41:33,420 --> 00:41:36,380
don't rewrite the story. What happened happened. That

1145
00:41:36,380 --> 00:41:39,200
was real. That was authentic. That happened.

1146
00:41:39,505 --> 00:41:41,664
What we do is we rewrite the meaning

1147
00:41:41,664 --> 00:41:42,565
of that story,

1148
00:41:42,945 --> 00:41:44,324
and we edit

1149
00:41:44,945 --> 00:41:46,484
the e. We edit

1150
00:41:47,025 --> 00:41:49,045
that portion of our story to say,

1151
00:41:49,425 --> 00:41:52,224
hey. When this happened, I put this meaning

1152
00:41:52,224 --> 00:41:54,804
to it. Is that true? Is that real?

1153
00:41:55,039 --> 00:41:56,800
Do I have to put that meaning to

1154
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,159
it? Or because I've grown, I've learned, I've

1155
00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:00,659
evolved,

1156
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,199
can I put a different meaning to that

1157
00:42:03,199 --> 00:42:06,179
story? Can I do put a different meaning

1158
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:06,974
that

1159
00:42:07,295 --> 00:42:08,434
will allow

1160
00:42:08,894 --> 00:42:10,035
this guy to rest?

1161
00:42:10,494 --> 00:42:11,715
Yeah. That's powerful.

1162
00:42:12,095 --> 00:42:14,815
Alright. Russell's getting us back on track. As

1163
00:42:14,815 --> 00:42:16,974
far as we we've teased him with the

1164
00:42:16,974 --> 00:42:18,735
eight myths, and I think we've gone over

1165
00:42:18,735 --> 00:42:19,934
a couple of them, two or three. What

1166
00:42:19,934 --> 00:42:21,215
are what are the ones we've gone over?

1167
00:42:21,215 --> 00:42:23,530
And then where should we go next with

1168
00:42:24,110 --> 00:42:25,329
through these myths?

1169
00:42:25,710 --> 00:42:28,670
Alright. Myth number one, sobriety is not the

1170
00:42:28,670 --> 00:42:29,170
same

1171
00:42:29,470 --> 00:42:30,289
as recovery.

1172
00:42:30,590 --> 00:42:32,849
There is a myth that sobriety is recovery.

1173
00:42:32,990 --> 00:42:34,930
It's not true. There's zero correlation.

1174
00:42:35,454 --> 00:42:36,275
Myth number

1175
00:42:36,655 --> 00:42:38,414
two is I will have to fight this

1176
00:42:38,414 --> 00:42:40,355
every day for the rest of my life.

1177
00:42:40,655 --> 00:42:43,214
Again, that's not true. Through the power of

1178
00:42:43,214 --> 00:42:44,674
Christ, through his atonement

1179
00:42:45,454 --> 00:42:48,335
through his atonement, we don't have to struggle

1180
00:42:48,335 --> 00:42:51,329
with this every day. And that plays into

1181
00:42:51,329 --> 00:42:53,510
myth number three. We talked about that one.

1182
00:42:53,809 --> 00:42:55,909
Hi. I'm Curtis and I'm an addict.

1183
00:42:56,289 --> 00:43:00,130
No. Remove the labels. Remove that. There's only

1184
00:43:00,130 --> 00:43:00,949
one title.

1185
00:43:01,409 --> 00:43:02,949
There's only one title

1186
00:43:03,329 --> 00:43:05,269
that cannot be destructive

1187
00:43:05,855 --> 00:43:07,795
and that's I am a child of God.

1188
00:43:08,014 --> 00:43:10,094
I'm not an addict. I'm a child of

1189
00:43:10,094 --> 00:43:12,194
God. It's just not true.

1190
00:43:12,654 --> 00:43:13,714
Myth number four

1191
00:43:14,014 --> 00:43:16,514
is I just need to be sober longer

1192
00:43:17,214 --> 00:43:18,355
and go away.

1193
00:43:18,815 --> 00:43:20,969
This is such a pervasive myth. Just hold

1194
00:43:20,969 --> 00:43:23,130
on. Just hold on longer, and you're gonna

1195
00:43:23,130 --> 00:43:23,789
be okay.

1196
00:43:24,090 --> 00:43:25,150
You know, that

1197
00:43:25,449 --> 00:43:27,449
18 year old boy who wants to go

1198
00:43:27,449 --> 00:43:29,449
on a mission is like, okay. We'll make

1199
00:43:29,449 --> 00:43:31,610
it two months or three months or and

1200
00:43:31,610 --> 00:43:34,090
then you it'll go away. Or I'm gonna

1201
00:43:34,090 --> 00:43:36,485
get married. And then once I'm married, then

1202
00:43:36,485 --> 00:43:38,025
it'll go away. You know?

1203
00:43:39,364 --> 00:43:42,085
These little guys have nothing to do with

1204
00:43:42,085 --> 00:43:44,265
that. And this idea of longevity,

1205
00:43:45,125 --> 00:43:47,765
it just doesn't work. There's one purpose for

1206
00:43:47,765 --> 00:43:48,265
sobriety.

1207
00:43:48,639 --> 00:43:50,820
And you can find this in Anna Lemke's

1208
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,500
book, Dopamine Nation,

1209
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:53,619
is that

1210
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,019
the dopamine dependent cycle

1211
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,500
takes anywhere from two to four weeks

1212
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,380
to get out of that constant

1213
00:44:01,679 --> 00:44:02,179
compulsion.

1214
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,554
That's it. There's this myth that we've you

1215
00:44:05,554 --> 00:44:07,714
know, if I've done this behavior for ten

1216
00:44:07,714 --> 00:44:09,315
years, it's gonna take me ten years of

1217
00:44:09,315 --> 00:44:10,775
therapy to get out of this.

1218
00:44:11,554 --> 00:44:13,954
It's not true. You can break the dopamine

1219
00:44:13,954 --> 00:44:16,694
independent cycle in as quick as two weeks.

1220
00:44:17,139 --> 00:44:19,059
So that two weeks, it's important to be

1221
00:44:19,059 --> 00:44:21,159
sober. Really important to be sober.

1222
00:44:21,539 --> 00:44:23,059
You know? And like I said, two to

1223
00:44:23,059 --> 00:44:24,679
four weeks is about average.

1224
00:44:24,980 --> 00:44:25,480
But

1225
00:44:25,940 --> 00:44:28,179
that's the purpose of sobriety. Once you get

1226
00:44:28,179 --> 00:44:30,284
past that, then you've got to do the

1227
00:44:30,284 --> 00:44:32,844
digging. You've got to get into that part

1228
00:44:32,844 --> 00:44:34,525
of it. Yeah. I think that's I I

1229
00:44:34,525 --> 00:44:36,605
wanna highlight that is because that's prevalent as

1230
00:44:36,605 --> 00:44:38,525
we wanna go to these time frames, you

1231
00:44:38,525 --> 00:44:40,605
know, as church leaders or as parents. Right?

1232
00:44:40,605 --> 00:44:42,869
And, thinking that, man, if we can just

1233
00:44:42,869 --> 00:44:45,210
get this young man to six months sobriety,

1234
00:44:45,269 --> 00:44:47,349
then maybe he can do two years of

1235
00:44:47,349 --> 00:44:49,510
sobriety. Right? Then what happens is you just

1236
00:44:49,510 --> 00:44:51,349
pass it on to the mission president. Now

1237
00:44:51,349 --> 00:44:53,029
now they're they're the ones struggling with it.

1238
00:44:53,029 --> 00:44:55,510
Right? And so, yeah, just recognizing that we're

1239
00:44:55,510 --> 00:44:57,204
not, it's not about the behavior.

1240
00:44:57,744 --> 00:45:00,324
Yeah. And a common friend of ours,

1241
00:45:00,704 --> 00:45:02,804
he returned from a mission in Peru,

1242
00:45:03,105 --> 00:45:06,065
and he was so open and so amazing

1243
00:45:06,065 --> 00:45:07,445
with his missionaries.

1244
00:45:07,824 --> 00:45:09,344
He just said, hey. If you've got a

1245
00:45:09,344 --> 00:45:11,585
problem with pornography or masturbation, come talk to

1246
00:45:11,585 --> 00:45:13,339
me. Come talk to me.

1247
00:45:13,639 --> 00:45:16,119
And he created a safe space for them

1248
00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:18,679
to do that. And here's the thing. He

1249
00:45:18,679 --> 00:45:20,940
found that about seventy eight percent

1250
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,380
of his missionaries, his current active missionaries

1251
00:45:25,045 --> 00:45:27,304
were either involved with pornography or masturbation.

1252
00:45:27,844 --> 00:45:30,644
Seventy eight percent. And so, yeah, that six

1253
00:45:30,644 --> 00:45:33,045
month mark, okay, be be good for six

1254
00:45:33,045 --> 00:45:34,324
months, and then we'll kick it down the

1255
00:45:34,324 --> 00:45:35,625
road to the mission president.

1256
00:45:36,085 --> 00:45:37,945
That's not solving the problem.

1257
00:45:38,510 --> 00:45:41,949
Yeah. It's just not. Yeah. Alright. Where were

1258
00:45:41,949 --> 00:45:43,869
we on the list of eight? K. We're

1259
00:45:43,869 --> 00:45:47,230
on number five. Five. Okay. Number five. Number

1260
00:45:47,230 --> 00:45:49,550
five is that viewing pornography is just a

1261
00:45:49,550 --> 00:45:50,449
lack of willpower.

1262
00:45:51,469 --> 00:45:53,409
That's great. And that's not true.

1263
00:45:53,835 --> 00:45:56,474
The idea that it's all about willpower and

1264
00:45:56,474 --> 00:45:57,994
just push this guy down and push this

1265
00:45:57,994 --> 00:46:00,394
guy down, think about that beach ball. Think

1266
00:46:00,394 --> 00:46:03,034
about holding your breath. You wouldn't say, oh,

1267
00:46:03,034 --> 00:46:05,434
you can't hold your breath for ten minutes?

1268
00:46:05,434 --> 00:46:06,974
Oh, that's such a lack of willpower.

1269
00:46:08,070 --> 00:46:09,690
It's not about the willpower.

1270
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:13,110
It's that you've got to pull out the

1271
00:46:13,110 --> 00:46:16,250
things that are constantly screaming in your skull.

1272
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:18,789
That's what it's about. It's not about the

1273
00:46:18,789 --> 00:46:20,010
willpower. Yeah.

1274
00:46:20,474 --> 00:46:24,075
Another caveat there I'll insert is that it's

1275
00:46:24,075 --> 00:46:25,595
easy for a parent or a church leader

1276
00:46:25,595 --> 00:46:27,035
kinda get in this place. Well, like, well,

1277
00:46:27,035 --> 00:46:28,875
I mean, I don't look at it, so

1278
00:46:28,875 --> 00:46:30,175
I must have the willpower.

1279
00:46:30,555 --> 00:46:32,315
So just do what I do and don't

1280
00:46:32,315 --> 00:46:34,095
look at it. Right? When in reality,

1281
00:46:34,460 --> 00:46:36,639
we have different demons. We have different

1282
00:46:36,940 --> 00:46:39,420
numbing mechanisms that we handle life and the

1283
00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:41,659
struggles that our own demons create. And it

1284
00:46:41,659 --> 00:46:44,299
may not be as stigmatized as pornography. And

1285
00:46:44,299 --> 00:46:46,400
so we kind of lie to ourselves thinking,

1286
00:46:46,460 --> 00:46:48,059
oh, I figured it out. I did it.

1287
00:46:48,059 --> 00:46:48,880
When in reality,

1288
00:46:49,265 --> 00:46:51,025
we were all struggling with demons. But just

1289
00:46:51,025 --> 00:46:53,664
because you don't act out a certain way

1290
00:46:53,664 --> 00:46:55,905
doesn't mean that someone else didn't just do

1291
00:46:55,905 --> 00:46:57,204
what you do. Yeah.

1292
00:46:57,505 --> 00:46:59,265
Kurt, you nailed that. That was so well

1293
00:46:59,265 --> 00:47:00,805
said. And it's,

1294
00:47:01,344 --> 00:47:03,344
like, going through the eight weeks of our

1295
00:47:03,344 --> 00:47:03,844
program,

1296
00:47:04,179 --> 00:47:06,760
we start with recovery versus sobriety.

1297
00:47:07,059 --> 00:47:09,140
The second week, we talk about guilt versus

1298
00:47:09,140 --> 00:47:11,619
shame. The third week, we talk about pain

1299
00:47:11,619 --> 00:47:12,519
versus misery.

1300
00:47:12,980 --> 00:47:15,699
How misery is the counterfeit of pain, and

1301
00:47:15,699 --> 00:47:17,960
pain is actually a gift from God

1302
00:47:18,375 --> 00:47:21,014
and understanding the true nature of pain. And

1303
00:47:21,014 --> 00:47:22,875
we go through all these different dyads.

1304
00:47:23,255 --> 00:47:25,735
The following one is love versus lust and

1305
00:47:25,735 --> 00:47:27,574
how that plays. And the reason we go

1306
00:47:27,574 --> 00:47:29,914
through these each week is because

1307
00:47:30,215 --> 00:47:30,954
we want

1308
00:47:31,900 --> 00:47:34,239
to give people the tools they need.

1309
00:47:34,619 --> 00:47:37,199
It's so funny because if you ask people,

1310
00:47:37,500 --> 00:47:39,840
everyone wants to be good. Everyone.

1311
00:47:40,780 --> 00:47:43,980
Like but okay. How? How do I be

1312
00:47:43,980 --> 00:47:46,434
good? Right? How do I make that happen?

1313
00:47:46,434 --> 00:47:48,355
I want to get pornography out of my

1314
00:47:48,355 --> 00:47:50,755
life, and it and maybe if it's even

1315
00:47:50,755 --> 00:47:52,054
possible, but how?

1316
00:47:52,434 --> 00:47:54,534
And so we go through these different diets

1317
00:47:54,594 --> 00:47:55,734
to help them understand,

1318
00:47:56,275 --> 00:47:58,695
okay. What is the true nature of pain?

1319
00:47:58,755 --> 00:48:00,855
How does love differ from lust?

1320
00:48:01,179 --> 00:48:04,219
You know, one of them is that nice

1321
00:48:04,219 --> 00:48:06,079
is the counterfeit of kind.

1322
00:48:06,460 --> 00:48:08,000
And this idea that

1323
00:48:08,300 --> 00:48:11,119
there's a correlation between the nice guy syndrome

1324
00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:14,480
and pornography usage. Because the nice guy,

1325
00:48:14,784 --> 00:48:17,445
he's the banner waiver of the victim

1326
00:48:17,744 --> 00:48:18,244
movement.

1327
00:48:18,704 --> 00:48:21,105
He's the one out in front saying, I'm

1328
00:48:21,105 --> 00:48:21,764
a victim.

1329
00:48:22,144 --> 00:48:23,824
And when we can break him out of

1330
00:48:23,824 --> 00:48:26,244
nice and get him into kind, that changes.

1331
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,119
Then we talk about joy versus pleasure and

1332
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:30,500
excellence versus perfectionism

1333
00:48:31,199 --> 00:48:33,199
and being able to give them those skill

1334
00:48:33,199 --> 00:48:33,699
sets

1335
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,279
that changes the entire game. And this what

1336
00:48:37,279 --> 00:48:39,460
I'm gonna say next is probably

1337
00:48:40,034 --> 00:48:42,534
goes contrary to everything you've ever heard.

1338
00:48:42,835 --> 00:48:43,335
And

1339
00:48:43,635 --> 00:48:44,694
that is that

1340
00:48:45,315 --> 00:48:46,775
sobriety, by definition,

1341
00:48:47,315 --> 00:48:49,255
is the time between relapses.

1342
00:48:50,034 --> 00:48:50,534
Sobriety

1343
00:48:50,835 --> 00:48:52,775
cannot include a relapse.

1344
00:48:53,420 --> 00:48:54,780
In our program, we don't even call them

1345
00:48:54,780 --> 00:48:56,320
relapses. We call them lapses

1346
00:48:56,860 --> 00:48:59,920
because rather than spinning up all the shame

1347
00:49:00,220 --> 00:49:01,119
from the past

1348
00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:03,500
and putting it on our shoulders and then

1349
00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:05,599
all the shame of the future expectation

1350
00:49:06,220 --> 00:49:08,234
of a relapse, we just say, let's take

1351
00:49:08,234 --> 00:49:10,255
a look at this one moment in time.

1352
00:49:10,315 --> 00:49:11,375
This one moment

1353
00:49:11,835 --> 00:49:14,154
because that serves us. If we can look

1354
00:49:14,154 --> 00:49:16,074
at this moment in time, that will serve

1355
00:49:16,074 --> 00:49:18,795
us. And so we say, okay. What happened

1356
00:49:18,795 --> 00:49:19,775
with this moment?

1357
00:49:20,074 --> 00:49:20,894
And recovery,

1358
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:23,960
this is where it's gonna contradict everything you've

1359
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,019
ever heard from every program, is that recovery

1360
00:49:27,159 --> 00:49:27,900
can include

1361
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:28,780
lapses.

1362
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,119
And the difference is, like, I know when

1363
00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:33,340
someone is in recovery,

1364
00:49:34,055 --> 00:49:36,055
when they get on their knees and they

1365
00:49:36,055 --> 00:49:37,675
thank God for their laps.

1366
00:49:38,055 --> 00:49:40,055
And you think, wait. You're gonna thank God

1367
00:49:40,055 --> 00:49:42,375
that you looked at pornography? No. That's not

1368
00:49:42,375 --> 00:49:44,695
what we're talking about. We're not talking about

1369
00:49:44,695 --> 00:49:45,994
that. We're saying

1370
00:49:46,299 --> 00:49:48,139
that god just gave me one of the

1371
00:49:48,139 --> 00:49:50,960
most important messages he could ever give me.

1372
00:49:51,019 --> 00:49:52,619
It's it's that idea of I wanna be

1373
00:49:52,619 --> 00:49:54,639
good, well, where, how,

1374
00:49:55,019 --> 00:49:55,519
and

1375
00:49:55,900 --> 00:49:58,460
what a lapse does is it puts a

1376
00:49:58,460 --> 00:49:58,960
pin

1377
00:49:59,394 --> 00:50:00,934
in the map of my soul,

1378
00:50:01,235 --> 00:50:03,494
an exact location like the

1379
00:50:03,954 --> 00:50:07,255
dead on GPS coordinates. This right here

1380
00:50:07,555 --> 00:50:09,735
is where God needs me to dig.

1381
00:50:10,035 --> 00:50:12,114
I need to go to this location in

1382
00:50:12,114 --> 00:50:15,039
my soul to dig this up. And for

1383
00:50:15,039 --> 00:50:16,819
that, we can always be grateful.

1384
00:50:17,279 --> 00:50:19,119
And when people do that work and when

1385
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:20,960
they actually get on their knees and say

1386
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,179
thank you for the message

1387
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:23,699
of showing me

1388
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,480
showing me where I need to dig, and

1389
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,844
that humility and that gratitude and leaving the

1390
00:50:29,005 --> 00:50:31,824
stigma off of you're this horrible, shameful person.

1391
00:50:32,125 --> 00:50:33,984
But just looking at the message,

1392
00:50:34,525 --> 00:50:36,284
that's when I know people are in true

1393
00:50:36,284 --> 00:50:36,784
recovery

1394
00:50:37,164 --> 00:50:39,965
is when they they're actually grateful for their

1395
00:50:39,965 --> 00:50:40,465
lapses.

1396
00:50:40,925 --> 00:50:43,420
That's awesome. And we we will mention, you've

1397
00:50:43,420 --> 00:50:44,860
mentioned your program a few times. We'll make

1398
00:50:44,860 --> 00:50:46,140
sure Curtis plugs it at the end here,

1399
00:50:46,140 --> 00:50:47,500
but I wanna get through the eight the

1400
00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:49,420
eight miss. How far did we get? We're

1401
00:50:49,420 --> 00:50:51,500
on six. Here we go. Let's hear it.

1402
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:54,699
Here we go. Number six, recovery is about

1403
00:50:54,699 --> 00:50:55,920
removing all triggers.

1404
00:50:57,105 --> 00:50:58,385
Right? Like, this is,

1405
00:50:59,184 --> 00:51:01,364
if you're triggered, just stop pulling the trigger.

1406
00:51:02,144 --> 00:51:04,704
Yeah. If you're trigger, then, well, get rid

1407
00:51:04,704 --> 00:51:07,184
of your cell phone. And if you're drunk,

1408
00:51:07,184 --> 00:51:09,929
don't go to bars anymore. And David Hawkins

1409
00:51:09,929 --> 00:51:11,690
in the book Letting Go does an amazing

1410
00:51:11,690 --> 00:51:14,170
analogy. He said, okay. If you get a

1411
00:51:14,170 --> 00:51:15,710
a sliver in your arm,

1412
00:51:16,010 --> 00:51:16,510
then,

1413
00:51:16,889 --> 00:51:19,289
you're like, oh, well, it doesn't hurt as

1414
00:51:19,289 --> 00:51:21,050
long as nothing touches it. So let's put

1415
00:51:21,050 --> 00:51:23,704
a barrier over that. And then, well, I

1416
00:51:23,704 --> 00:51:25,785
might wanna still play sports, so I'm gonna

1417
00:51:25,785 --> 00:51:27,945
put a bigger barrier and bigger barrier. I'm

1418
00:51:27,945 --> 00:51:29,885
just gonna make sure that this splinter

1419
00:51:30,265 --> 00:51:31,485
never gets touched.

1420
00:51:31,785 --> 00:51:32,844
Mhmm. And

1421
00:51:33,144 --> 00:51:35,485
instead of just pulling the sliver out. Right?

1422
00:51:35,625 --> 00:51:36,360
Yeah. Yeah.

1423
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,239
Just pull the sliver out. Pull the demon

1424
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,400
out. Instead of trying to put all these

1425
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:41,900
barriers

1426
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,599
to touching that, just pull it right out.

1427
00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:45,960
Yeah. And that is the core of the

1428
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,300
gospel. I mean, that's redemption. We're not saying,

1429
00:51:48,454 --> 00:51:50,695
you know, Jesus will help you just feel

1430
00:51:50,695 --> 00:51:52,934
good and get through the day. Like, no.

1431
00:51:52,934 --> 00:51:55,414
He will heal you. He will transform you.

1432
00:51:55,414 --> 00:51:57,835
He will redeem you. That is the gospel.

1433
00:51:58,054 --> 00:51:58,554
Yes.

1434
00:51:59,014 --> 00:52:02,230
That's exactly it. So number seven Number seven.

1435
00:52:02,549 --> 00:52:04,309
You have to hit rock bottom before you

1436
00:52:04,309 --> 00:52:05,049
can recover.

1437
00:52:05,429 --> 00:52:07,349
Yeah. That's a big one. And that's not

1438
00:52:07,349 --> 00:52:07,849
true.

1439
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:10,889
Christ is there no matter where you are.

1440
00:52:10,949 --> 00:52:13,130
No matter where you are, Christ is there.

1441
00:52:13,425 --> 00:52:15,744
Or it is unkind to just watch them

1442
00:52:15,744 --> 00:52:18,305
spiral until they find some level of rock

1443
00:52:18,305 --> 00:52:20,385
bottom and then think, okay, now we can

1444
00:52:20,385 --> 00:52:22,704
help them. Right. It's there's no reason why

1445
00:52:22,704 --> 00:52:24,864
we need to wait for this obscure rock

1446
00:52:24,864 --> 00:52:27,210
bottom when we can offer resources to help

1447
00:52:27,210 --> 00:52:29,849
right away because at their core, everybody wants

1448
00:52:29,849 --> 00:52:31,789
to be better, like you said. Yeah.

1449
00:52:32,730 --> 00:52:35,690
Number eight. Eight. We're there. Here we go.

1450
00:52:35,690 --> 00:52:38,329
We made it number eight. Number eight is

1451
00:52:38,329 --> 00:52:40,429
I will overcome this for my,

1452
00:52:40,730 --> 00:52:42,574
like, for my wife,

1453
00:52:42,954 --> 00:52:45,275
for my girl Yeah. For my kids, for

1454
00:52:45,275 --> 00:52:47,914
my parents, for my bishop. I will overcome

1455
00:52:47,914 --> 00:52:48,734
this for,

1456
00:52:49,034 --> 00:52:50,655
like Not a good plan.

1457
00:52:52,474 --> 00:52:56,190
It doesn't work. It will never work if

1458
00:52:56,190 --> 00:52:56,929
the motivation

1459
00:52:57,390 --> 00:52:58,929
is to do it for someone else.

1460
00:52:59,230 --> 00:53:00,849
It will only work

1461
00:53:01,309 --> 00:53:02,289
when that person

1462
00:53:02,829 --> 00:53:04,289
loves themself enough

1463
00:53:04,750 --> 00:53:06,849
to say, I'm gonna do this for Curtis.

1464
00:53:07,230 --> 00:53:09,795
That's who I'm gonna do this for. And

1465
00:53:09,795 --> 00:53:11,494
once they can get to that place,

1466
00:53:11,875 --> 00:53:13,014
once they can say,

1467
00:53:13,315 --> 00:53:16,355
I care enough about me to do this

1468
00:53:16,355 --> 00:53:19,175
work, that's when it'll work. And I've had

1469
00:53:19,234 --> 00:53:20,755
people that are like, hey. I'm doing this

1470
00:53:20,755 --> 00:53:22,829
for my wife. And I'm like, k. Then

1471
00:53:22,829 --> 00:53:24,829
this program is not for you. It's just

1472
00:53:24,829 --> 00:53:25,329
not

1473
00:53:25,630 --> 00:53:26,130
because

1474
00:53:26,430 --> 00:53:28,849
you cannot heal for your wife.

1475
00:53:29,789 --> 00:53:32,590
It doesn't work that way. You can only

1476
00:53:32,590 --> 00:53:35,550
heal for you. Yeah. My mind goes to,

1477
00:53:35,550 --> 00:53:36,750
you know, if if the savior came to

1478
00:53:36,750 --> 00:53:39,045
us and said, come follow me. Like, well,

1479
00:53:39,045 --> 00:53:40,164
I don't know. And then you turn to

1480
00:53:40,164 --> 00:53:41,525
your wife. You're like, yes, you will follow

1481
00:53:41,525 --> 00:53:43,444
him. Okay. I'll follow him like that. Kind

1482
00:53:43,444 --> 00:53:45,464
of seems like disconnected. Right?

1483
00:53:45,764 --> 00:53:48,324
Like we should follow Christ because we, we

1484
00:53:48,324 --> 00:53:49,224
want to be

1485
00:53:49,605 --> 00:53:51,605
in relationship with him. Right. Not because somebody

1486
00:53:51,605 --> 00:53:54,289
else does. Yeah. That's really helpful. Yeah. That's

1487
00:53:54,289 --> 00:53:55,190
good. Exactly.

1488
00:53:55,730 --> 00:53:58,369
Awesome. Well, this has been really helpful and

1489
00:53:58,369 --> 00:53:58,869
fantastic.

1490
00:53:59,329 --> 00:54:01,809
Where can people find out more about, what

1491
00:54:01,809 --> 00:54:04,130
you offer or your resources or and what

1492
00:54:04,130 --> 00:54:05,809
does that look like? Is it it's a

1493
00:54:05,809 --> 00:54:08,824
weekly type of online thing or coaching or

1494
00:54:08,824 --> 00:54:10,904
therapy or what is it? Yeah. So we

1495
00:54:10,904 --> 00:54:13,385
do an eight week program, and you can

1496
00:54:13,385 --> 00:54:17,484
go to you can go to counterfeitemotions.com/recovery,

1497
00:54:17,704 --> 00:54:19,784
or you can go to we actually just

1498
00:54:19,784 --> 00:54:22,860
got this up. We're we've it's been such

1499
00:54:23,079 --> 00:54:23,820
an important

1500
00:54:24,119 --> 00:54:25,800
part of our business that we've created a

1501
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:27,400
whole new website. We just got it up

1502
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:31,420
this last week. It's called recoverynotsobriety.com.

1503
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,239
And it's like I said, it's an eight

1504
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:35,420
week program, and each week we go through

1505
00:54:35,675 --> 00:54:38,074
one of the dyads of counterfeit emotions to

1506
00:54:38,074 --> 00:54:39,355
be able to get out of the shame

1507
00:54:39,355 --> 00:54:39,855
cycle,

1508
00:54:40,315 --> 00:54:42,635
to be able to honor pain, to be

1509
00:54:42,635 --> 00:54:44,635
able to understand what love is instead of

1510
00:54:44,635 --> 00:54:45,135
lust,

1511
00:54:45,594 --> 00:54:47,534
to get rid of the perfectionism

1512
00:54:47,914 --> 00:54:50,849
mindset and get into an excellence or striving

1513
00:54:50,849 --> 00:54:53,670
mindset. And so, yeah, we do that program

1514
00:54:54,130 --> 00:54:56,130
multiple times throughout the year, and our next

1515
00:54:56,130 --> 00:54:57,670
one is September 3.

1516
00:54:58,210 --> 00:54:58,710
And,

1517
00:54:59,089 --> 00:55:01,589
yeah, please, please, please, please,

1518
00:55:02,045 --> 00:55:03,724
if there's someone in your life or if

1519
00:55:03,724 --> 00:55:06,465
it's even you that is struggling with this,

1520
00:55:06,925 --> 00:55:08,224
know that there's hope.

1521
00:55:08,765 --> 00:55:10,065
Know that there is

1522
00:55:10,605 --> 00:55:11,744
true recovery,

1523
00:55:12,605 --> 00:55:15,325
that it doesn't have to be a daily

1524
00:55:15,325 --> 00:55:16,545
battle full of misery,

1525
00:55:17,180 --> 00:55:19,360
that you can find peace in Christ.

1526
00:55:20,059 --> 00:55:20,880
That it's

1527
00:55:21,660 --> 00:55:24,000
that Christ is there. He is

1528
00:55:24,300 --> 00:55:24,800
absolutely

1529
00:55:25,099 --> 00:55:27,680
there, and there is peace to be found

1530
00:55:28,140 --> 00:55:30,140
once we can dig out those demons out

1531
00:55:30,140 --> 00:55:31,340
of our soul. And,

1532
00:55:31,985 --> 00:55:34,164
maybe follow-up question. Is this program for youth?

1533
00:55:34,704 --> 00:55:37,824
We don't do anybody under 18, at least

1534
00:55:37,824 --> 00:55:38,565
not yet.

1535
00:55:39,025 --> 00:55:39,525
So

1536
00:55:39,905 --> 00:55:42,224
as of right now, we just do 18

1537
00:55:42,224 --> 00:55:44,324
and over. We have had some

1538
00:55:44,704 --> 00:55:46,324
potential or future missionaries

1539
00:55:46,704 --> 00:55:48,599
join, but they were they were over that

1540
00:55:48,599 --> 00:55:49,099
18

1541
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,719
age group. Yeah. But, fear not. There's other

1542
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:53,719
great resources out there for youth if you

1543
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:55,799
need any. You know, we we recommend all

1544
00:55:55,799 --> 00:55:58,279
sorts of of therapists or things, but usually

1545
00:55:58,279 --> 00:56:00,039
in your local area, you can find you

1546
00:56:00,039 --> 00:56:02,679
know, if you need direct individual therapy, there's

1547
00:56:02,679 --> 00:56:03,179
definitely

1548
00:56:03,505 --> 00:56:05,905
some options there. And just being a youth

1549
00:56:05,905 --> 00:56:08,704
is sometimes the answer is just hang tight.

1550
00:56:08,704 --> 00:56:09,824
They'll grow up and, and,

1551
00:56:10,465 --> 00:56:13,025
we can, sometimes those demons are tricky to

1552
00:56:13,025 --> 00:56:14,625
deal with, but I know it's heartbreaking in

1553
00:56:14,625 --> 00:56:16,430
the moment, for sure. So, all right. I'm

1554
00:56:16,430 --> 00:56:18,510
going to, just wrap this up mainly for

1555
00:56:18,510 --> 00:56:20,690
the listening audience, maybe through the, the podcast,

1556
00:56:20,990 --> 00:56:22,670
but there's some other questions here. We're going

1557
00:56:22,670 --> 00:56:24,110
to, if you want to hang around Curtis,

1558
00:56:24,110 --> 00:56:25,390
if you have a few more minutes to,

1559
00:56:25,630 --> 00:56:27,710
maybe entertain some of these questions and then,

1560
00:56:28,110 --> 00:56:29,869
so those of you listening on the podcast,

1561
00:56:29,869 --> 00:56:31,570
come join us over at the leading saints,

1562
00:56:32,034 --> 00:56:33,655
community, and you can watch the full recording

1563
00:56:33,875 --> 00:56:35,655
as we explore some more of this.

1564
00:56:42,434 --> 00:56:45,074
That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints

1565
00:56:45,074 --> 00:56:46,889
podcast. Hey. Listen. Would you do me a

1566
00:56:46,889 --> 00:56:49,289
favor? You know, everybody's got that friend who

1567
00:56:49,289 --> 00:56:50,909
listens to a ton of podcasts,

1568
00:56:51,210 --> 00:56:53,369
and maybe they aren't aware of Leading Saints.

1569
00:56:53,369 --> 00:56:55,369
So would you mind taking the link of

1570
00:56:55,369 --> 00:56:57,849
this episode or another episode of Leading Saints

1571
00:56:57,849 --> 00:56:59,929
and just texting it to that friend? You

1572
00:56:59,929 --> 00:57:01,855
know who I'm talking about. The friend who

1573
00:57:01,855 --> 00:57:04,255
always listens to podcasts and is always telling

1574
00:57:04,255 --> 00:57:06,175
you about different podcasts. Well, it's your turn

1575
00:57:06,175 --> 00:57:08,434
to tell that friend about Leading Saints.

1576
00:57:08,735 --> 00:57:10,575
So share it. We'd also love to hear

1577
00:57:10,575 --> 00:57:12,414
from you. If you have any perspective or

1578
00:57:12,414 --> 00:57:14,094
thought on this episode, you can go to

1579
00:57:14,094 --> 00:57:15,135
leadingsaints.org

1580
00:57:15,135 --> 00:57:17,800
and actually leave a comment on the, episode

1581
00:57:17,860 --> 00:57:19,940
page, or reach out to us at leading

1582
00:57:19,940 --> 00:57:21,559
saints dot org slash contact.

1583
00:57:31,364 --> 00:57:33,945
It came as a result of the position

1584
00:57:34,005 --> 00:57:36,905
of leadership which was imposed upon us

1585
00:57:37,364 --> 00:57:40,184
by the God of heaven who brought forth

1586
00:57:40,244 --> 00:57:41,065
a restoration

1587
00:57:41,364 --> 00:57:43,704
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

1588
00:57:44,519 --> 00:57:45,420
When the declaration

1589
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,140
was made concerning the only

1590
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,159
true and living Church upon the face of

1591
00:57:51,159 --> 00:57:51,900
the earth,

1592
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,179
we were immediately put in a position of

1593
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:55,820
loneliness,

1594
00:57:56,119 --> 00:57:56,699
the loneliness

1595
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:57,659
of leadership

1596
00:57:58,402 --> 00:58:01,302
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,

1597
00:58:02,082 --> 00:58:04,562
and to which we must face up with

1598
00:58:04,562 --> 00:58:06,022
boldness and courage

1599
00:58:06,562 --> 00:58:07,382
and ability.