How's your teaching calling going? Have you ever
asked a question during the second hour and,
suddenly, everyone is looking at the carpet in
silence?
There are proven methods to stimulate class discussion
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What questions get people talking? How can you
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These are crucial principles to consider, especially in
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You can watch David Farnsworth's presentation by visiting
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There, you can gain free access for fourteen
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you'll find hours and hours of content to
help you be a better prepared Sunday teacher.
Hey. If you're a newbie to Leading Saints,
it's important that you know what is this
Leading Saints thing. Well, Leading Saints is a
nonprofit organization dedicated to helping
Latter day Saints be better prepared to lead.
And the way we do that is through
content creation. So we have this phenomenal podcast.
We have a newsletter. We have virtual
conferences,
so much more. And articles on our website.
I mean, I could go on and on.
Right?
And we encourage you to, jump in, check
out Leading Saints. Go to the search bar
at leadingsaints.org
and type in some topics and see what
pops up. We're just glad you're here
to join us.
Now if you remember, a few weeks ago,
maybe a couple months ago, we interviewed,
Brenda Engel
on the Leading Saints podcast, and we talked
about some of her personal leadership experience in
life and,
but also she is heavily involved in humanitarian
efforts in Africa,
and she is part of an organization called
Hearts and Hands.
And,
long story short, as many of you remember
from that episode,
she wanted to figure out how to get
as many people on buses in Tanzania
and drive the seven, eight hours
to Nairobi, Kenya during the temple open house
and get all these people through the temple
because, yeah, many of them,
have funding to maybe do their own endowments
when that time comes, but many don't even
have a concept of of the temple or
what it feels like or,
you know, all those things. And so she
thought, let's get people to the temple from
Tanzania. And so,
she didn't really have any fundraising
efforts in place, but our forces
combined, and we put a call out to
the Leading Saints audience.
And, wow,
you all stepped up. It was so inspiring
to just sit at my desk and see
these donations come through everything from $5 10
dollars a thousand dollars
4 thousand dollars and
collecting this money and getting
all of these 200 plus that I mean,
Brenda says that, in the, in this interview,
you're about to hear, but
in miracle upon miracle happening, getting these people
there, having an experience with the temple,
it was beautiful to just be a part
of it. And and I take no credit
for it, but Leading Saints coming together as
a community
just shows you the impact we can have
regardless of your church calling, regardless of your
formal influence.
We can really do some remarkable things for
Latter day Saints across the world. So I
wanna bring Brenda back on the podcast and
just get an update. What was it like?
Tell us the stories,
the opposition,
the holdups, and and the beautiful miracles
throughout it all. And, she does just that.
So thank you again. I encourage you to
check out the good work that Brenda does
with Hearts and Hands. We'll link to her
organization.
And, I'm sure we'll have Brenda back on
in the future because this is the these
are the types of projects we could really
have an impact
with growing the kingdom of God,
shepherding people to the temple, even in Nairobi,
Kenya. So let's jump into it. Here's my
follow-up interview with Brenda Engel.
Brenda, welcome back to the Leading Saints podcast.
Thank you. It's good to be here. Now
it was just a few weeks ago. It
feels like that, we first met and recorded
and we talked about all sorts of things.
But one of the projects that you had
mentioned is this, this temple trip for the
Nairobi, Kenya temple that you planned. Maybe just
give us, like if somebody didn't hear that
first episode, give us a quick review on
what you did and what and what what
you were trying to put together.
Okay. So we are getting this great idea,
me, Alan Jackson,
and,
a couple of the missionaries in that are
serving in Moshi, Tanzania or in they're in
Arusha, Tangent Tanzania.
And we get this good idea just to
these people have never seen a temple. Let's
get together and take some of them there,
and maybe they wanna go back and get
their endowments.
And these boys will go and see it
and wanna go on missions, and and we
can get some
piece of leadership going.
So great idea. We're thinking
25, 50 people. That was my original thing.
50 people. Us and go. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Fill it up and go. And it started
multiplying, multiplying, multiplying, and so then Leading Saints,
thank goodness, reached out to us and said,
hey. Let's do a podcast and see if
we can get you some funds because we
had, like, nothing.
And people and and people just coming in.
So the excitement just went crazy and we're
like, oh my goodness.
And so we raised a ton of money
on
here on Leaving Saints podcast within, like, a
week. Like, I can't even believe that. Like,
I've been trying to do humanitarian forever, and
I've never seen anything like it. So I'm
in Tanzania
telling the people about it, and I'm watching
the the Leading Saints just, like, more and
more people
just
giving their Yeah. Their
points or bits, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It was
really cool.
It was it was really neat to see
that. And so then I'm like, I'm worried
we're gonna get too much. So I'm like,
okay. Let's cut this off because I don't
want extra because I don't want extra. I
just want what we need. Yeah. And
and then
yes. And then it rolls from there. So,
people kept coming and coming to the last
minute, to the
last
hour and we we ended up with a
lot of people going. So, okay, that's the
that's the preliminary. Our greatest intentions that Yeah.
Took off and It turned out that, it
was good that we got a little bit
more because you got more and more requests
coming in for people to come on the
buses. Right? And I think it worked out
that we it was about a hundred dollars
for every person that came, and that included
their lodging and their meals and all that.
Right? Yes. Yes. So we we did pretty
good.
You know, there was extra expenses that showed
up like at the border. We had to
buy them off to get people through that
didn't have their documents. Oh, no.
It it it became a very good, yes,
the money was
whole.
Just it was really just a miracle. Like,
I've never seen anything like that happen. Like
I said, I've done lots of humanitarian. I've
never seen something like that happen and
it I I just wish all the people
that donated could just see the face of
one of these people
that went smiles. Just smiles and gratitude.
Like, that's all we got from them.
And we have a, a bubble on our
Instagram page because you
took over our account a few days there
as this was happening and sort of gave
us some live updates there. And then you'll
also send me a bunch of pictures that
we'll include with this episode of, you know,
of some of those moments you captured, and
and it's just so inspiring. And and, yeah,
I really I mean, this episode, I I
really wanted to be something that the Leading
Saints audience, especially those who contributed, feels sort
of that ownership of, like, we did something
special here. And we got,
you know, both members and nonmembers who maybe
had never had an experience with the temple.
We got them a temple experience. They went
through the open house,
and it was it was awesome. And and
we're stimulating the work, you know, in Africa
through this effort. So really cool stuff. That's
right. I I think that
just the name of your podcast, Leading Saints,
that was what
inspired me to want to take people is
as when I go into these little branches
and you see the lack of leadership that
they have, they just need leadership. And it's
like,
that that
what happened on this trip will change
the the branches and
the the eventually stakes in Tanzania because,
you know, I was I was on a
bus. I tried to hop different buses and
I just saw a whole bunch of pre
staged boys on there. And
it's like, wow. If they can go to
temple and fill that, get on a mission
and come back, they'll they'll lead the saints
here. They will and the Lord needs them.
And so that was really the
my root desire was to help build stronger,
men and leaders, women, families,
so that they can just flourish and they
will. Like, they they will. Yeah. Really cool.
And so, I mean, there's always you know,
with these trips, there's always hiccups along the
way. But
as far as, you kinda had one central
gathering place in Tanzania, and then
the the buses go, like, as a caravan
type of thing? Or
Okay. So let me just paint this picture.
I fly in Monday night. We're leaving Tuesday
morning. Wake up is pouring rain, pouring, pouring
into them. A lot of them, it's like
a bad omen that maybe things aren't gonna
go well. So we are praying, praying. I
send out to all my friends, please pray
this rain will stop.
But we're at three locations. So I'm in
charge of seven buses
at one of the branches in Arusha and
then the senior couple,
the Lukes, who are from Saint George and
just Lifesavers, they were at another branch with
a few buses and then we had Alan
and Tish in
Moshi with three buses. So 13 buses total
now,
and we we had people sign up at
the last minute. We
we we had a guy staying up all
night trying to get they had to have
passports and yellow fever cards, and we had
to help pay for all of those. So
that's where the funds went to. A lot
of it went to that. And
so he comes in with just stacks
of all these documents. We've got it now.
Get them to the people and get on
the bus. It's pouring rain. Well, right before
we had to get on on the bus,
the rain did stop. And I'm down at
a big tent a big tent is where
the church meets down in at this Arusha
branch,
and the buses are up at the top
of this washed out road way up there.
And so,
we've got we're trying to organize people and
get and I'm sending go to 25 up
there. Well, the best drivers aren't there. They're
off having a drink somewhere. The bus is
locked. So all of our organization got messed
up and people went everywhere and whatever.
And then I end up loading these buses,
and there's another 50 people down there. I
don't know where they came from. They don't
have their
documents.
I don't know what to do with them.
My phone isn't working. I can't get a
hold of anybody else.
And
just people everywhere. Happy people. Like, I don't
care if it's raining. They were coming to
the temple. They didn't care. They just showed
up on motorcycles and buses. They had to
pay to get there and some of them
came from really long ways away to get
to this.
And so it was just, like,
chaos for me. And my heart was chaos.
How do we get all these documents? People
get them on and make sure that so
this one little mom sitting there and she
she brings somebody over, can't speak their language,
it's another hard thing. And the missionaries,
oh my goodness. Those missionaries
were
absolutely incredible. Any of you moms out there
that your missionaries are in Tanzania,
incredible
incredible.
They couldn't go to the temple and they
were so sad that they were helping us
do all this. So they're translating and this
mom has documents for her children but not
the baby.
Okay. I can't take you and leave you
at customs or your baby at customs. You'll
have no way home, so you're not gonna
be able to go. And it's just like,
you see these people, like, they want to
go to the temple.
So I'm just like, I'm sorry. Like, I
can't I I don't know what to do
with you because I can't leave you the
customs. Okay. Then
we I get up there on the buses
and I look around. I see the mom
sitting there with her kid.
I'm like, oh, I gotta tell her she
has to get off the bus. I'm just
praying and right right then, someone came up,
we found her papers.
Oh, wow. So that was one little miracle.
So many miracles.
Like,
really, it was so it got so big
and I had all these people left down
there that I didn't have bus for.
So Alan from Moshe came and picked up
the ones we could. We get to
customs,
it's like five hours away or something. I
can't remember. And
we're talking about three windows they have to
go through with three people working, whatever, and
the line is down out the sidewalk clear
out in
wherever. There's so many people.
Babies, children, old people.
We we had some youth that came with
their neighbors who didn't come with their parents.
It's like, oh, who knew?
Wow. And and these happy people. Okay? Like,
my heart's in in a little,
it's it's traumatized as you know because I
mean, how are we gonna get all these
people there? How are we gonna not lose
people? How I can't talk to the bus
drivers. I can't communicate with them. So it
it got so big, so fast, and and
like I said, we had a hundred people
right before we left. It's another extra 50
people showed up.
We we've had so many so many people.
You know, I never heard a baby cry.
I never saw a child running wild.
I never heard one complaint. I never heard
anybody say,
why do we have to send the bus
for two hours waiting for people to get
to the line? Why didn't you organize this
better? Why nothing. They're just like, thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Tell the people back
home, thank you for helping us come.
And that's all I got. And
oh my goodness. So then we get through
customs. We head into Nairobi, huge city, lots
of traffic, fixes it a few more hours
to get there. We rented out two entire
hotels.
We only needed two hotels, but when we
got there, we were they we had one
on standby. We had to use it.
I mean, people we we okay. So we're
making peanut butter sandwiches to feed them. Hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of sandwiches because what
else am I gonna do to feed these
people? We feed them. They're so grateful. Whatever
they go into their rooms and dissipate quietly,
and then we're cleaning up and another bus
pulls in. Like, who knew we were missing
a bus? I didn't know. Didn't they count?
Like, how do we know we only had
12 buses that we just said? There are
so many people and so many buses. Who
knew? I don't know where these people were.
I still don't know where they were. I
don't know if they got lost or they
have to stop for potty breaks. I have
no idea, but we got all the food
out. The Lord blessed the food. It stretched.
We fed tons more sandwiches.
They had to have 40 people on that
bus which should only had 25. And so,
anyways, we fell
off and then they go to sleep. We
crash the next morning.
Sweetest thing ever.
We wake up in this beautiful hotel that
was so kind and good and gave us
the best prices and whatever and they just
have this giant
giant buffet of food. Okay. So imagine people
that have a lot of people never left
their hometown before
and they've never seen anything like this. And
you just got pay plates piled high
of just food and they're happy, but there's
this air of excitement.
Smiles and excitement. They know they're going to
temple. So we're like, okay. We're gonna have
to stagger these buses. And I keep telling
the church department, hey. We got more people
coming on buses. And they're like, oh, okay.
And,
you're gonna stagger them so we don't overwhelm
them. And and so I tell people, you
know, just hang out for a while because
it might be an hour or a half
or something before you even get to get
on buses. Oh, no. No. We're getting on
the bus right now. We're sitting there. We're
not missing this opportunity.
They finished up quick, got on the buses,
and just set for I don't even know
how long the last bus had to sit
there. I have no idea because I had
to go.
And so we get in, we go. You
can't find the temple on GPS just in
case any of you go visit, like,
get them take a map or something because
it sent people to hotel room. I don't
know. It it just didn't so we have
buses all trying to go to the hotel.
We get there and it's just heaven. We
get there and it's raining again
and,
it stops when our buses get there and
just the most beautiful day ever. This people
get off and off and off. They're organized.
They brought in more people.
Just
anyway,
once we stepped on that that temple ground,
like, I know it's not even dedicated yet,
but the piece of it just
filled our hearts and souls, and
and we just did that for several hours.
So, anyway, go ahead and ask me questions.
So what
maybe, I don't know what sort of demographic
markers are, like, membership information you have, but
as far as like so it was 12
buses total that all went?
Thirteen thirteen buses total. Okay.
13. Yeah. We had 12 and then one
that showed up. Yeah. And then the any
idea as far as who were members or
how long they've been members or anything like
that?
I I would say most of these people
on here were members. We did have we
did have a lot of investigators that the
missionaries had round up and sent, so we
have no idea who or Mhmm. What. We
don't know. But there were a lot of
investigators,
mostly members. I would say probably,
you know, 80% members on this group, but
we had two other buses join us, which
was Molly who I've talked about. Molly who
was,
you know, just did the the
choir Tabernacle Choir, Christmas concert for the church,
and,
the area authority had gone out to visit
him. And he area authority at Elder Matumbo
showed up to take him through a VIP
tour. So he came with all of his
prior, which is another 50, and none of
them are members.
And then we had,
an orphanage I've been working with,
the saddest
sweetest group of kids that just got wiped
out in a flood and they're homeless, but
the little mama that's 24 that's raising all
of them by herself because the other helpers
just died this year.
She's LDS. She said, please come back and
take me to get my endowment. But she's
trying to raise these kids in the gospel,
but she doesn't have any technology. She doesn't
have any books. She doesn't have
money to drive to church so that she
can get them to church so they can
get baptized. One little girl has a deep
infection in her leg and it's going into
her bone and she's
well, Ashley, she's like, I just wanna be
baptized. That's my dream. But because I have
this infection, I'm not worthy. Because they believe
that if they have anything wrong with them
or that it's it's more, you know, Satan
that's doing it, so they're not really worthy.
And so she came to the temple. So
we had this
this mama, 24 year old, adorable Vanessa that
I love so much. She shows up. We
sent a bus to get her and some
of her
98 of them got off the bus.
Like Wow. I'm calling the person doing the
food. Hey. Add add more. I did that,
like, every
day. Add more. We have, like,
twice as many orphans. Anyway, it's
anyway, they got these kids, and these kids
all want to be a member of the
church, but then none of them are. None
of them have been able to get baptized.
So
so that's our 15 buses.
Wow. And five hundred
five hundred and thirty seven people, we think.
Wow.
That is awesome. And and these are,
everything from, you know,
everyday going members to orphans to to nonmembers
and and everything in between. So that's cool.
Lots of art. Well, actually, we had our
drill team come that they aren't members, and
they brought some of their families with them
that have been drilling our wells. So we
had a lot of lot of, people who
are That's cool. Very curious about the church.
I had one man stop me when I
when I was in Moshe keep telling them
what we're gonna do a few months ago
and he said, I have two neighbors that
are very interested in the church. Would you
mind if they come? I'm like, yes. I
would love for them to come. Absolutely bring
them, you know. So so we don't we
don't know the racial. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, I'm sure there'll be some, baptismal,
baptisms happening from it. So that's awesome. I
already just got just got a a call
from some kid in the Moshi area that
I don't know if he's on the trip
or his sister was, but he's like, like,
I want the missionaries to come and I
wanted to serve a mission. I wanna belong
to this church. So I'm like, okay. That's
cool. So, yeah, we we we have a
lot a lot of good feedback coming in.
Nice.
And then,
so on the temple grounds, I mean, everybody
kinda went went at once and you just
sorta get them through the temple as soon
as as soon as, you know, get them
in line. We've all stood in lines at
temple open houses. Right? So Yeah.
And then anything else as far as being
at the temple that any other stories are?
They well, they have a chapel that they
haven't opened to public as beautiful chapel on
the temple grounds, and so they got to
go in there and sit in the rooms.
We took up all that. They were standing.
There's so many people. Like,
it it just it was but they got
to watch the video, you know, and go
through.
And, no. The temple grounds are beautiful. Big
statue of Christ that they just loved. And
you have to realize these people come from
a lot of maybe dirt floors and their
homes are extremely humble.
And
to
to be even on the ground, it's so
beautiful. It's just simply beautiful.
And to then to and to go into
the temple, just incredible.
That's cool.
And so it sounds like you got there
the night, but so you'd it's about a
two hour drive on the bus?
So we did at least seven or eight
hours altogether from when we left to get
to the hotel. Yeah. It was a long
long day. Bus ride. And then you went
to the temple and I'm sorry. You went
to the hotel and then the next day,
you woke up and went to the temple.
Is that Then that was
supposed to be like a thirty minute ride,
but
we don't have so long to be able
to get there.
That's funny.
And then after you went to the temples,
then the the drive home happened?
Yes. So then we've got to feed all
these people because now it's like we're a
couple hours late because we needed to get
them back before dark. It's very dangerous for
them to go home in the dark, but
we've already passed that. And,
we,
then we are gonna go feed them. So
we get everybody. So first, we take the
VIP tour with elementary
with Molly through the temple
and present him with they present him with
his genealogy and all. It's just incredible. He
so think of a man that's been a
pastor
and has
preached
Christ every day of his life, like, multiple
times, everything out of his mouth is and
then to hear in the temple that,
your family can be still together forever, that
you can have your wife for eternity. That's
a new concept that nobody teaches.
And so I'm standing with him in the
in the,
ceiling room and just it's just a quiet,
quiet, somber like, I don't know what what
the feeling was. It was it was very
peaceful, but deep thought, very deep thought. And
that we'll return back to a God that
we lived with before this life.
Those are things that a lot of other
churches don't ever question or talk about.
And so that was just a really sweet
experience to see this man who's adopted 35,000
street children
and loved his wife like,
yeah, I no other and his family and
and just these new concepts
that he's never heard in his life before.
It was really a sweet experience. So we
go out, we take pictures with this giant
massive group and it's not all of them
because some of them are still going to
temple and then we start loading up the
buses to go to this amazing,
sweet Relief Society president.
Oh my goodness.
Shirley
is,
like,
an incredible
just leader. That's what I can say. She's
a Relief Society president and we got a
hold of her and she says, Brenda, I'll
take care of this. We'll feed them. We
rented out a little school that we could,
cook. You have to cook everything's cooked over
fire there. And so the rice and beans
and the chicken that they fed them,
they they cooked all morning and expected us
at noon, waited till 02:30, I think, when
our buses finally got there, some of them.
And they just put out food and put
out food and we'll share a picture. Just
lines of people and
happy people. And,
anyway, she had her and her crew just
pumping that stuff out. And then we had
Molly come with his choir and they sing
at as the people ate, the the choir
sang to us and just, you know, just
the the feeling of I think on the
temple ground, it's the feeling of
of angels,
of
the heaven rejoicing,
of, like,
just
the the feeling there is is not I
don't have words for it, but it was
just a really holy sacred time.
And so and it just carried through. They
got on the buses. They're happy. They're a
little more talkative now
as they're eating, a little more,
just just feeling good and and thankful.
And this is an experience that they never
have had or would have ever had.
And,
the hope for them to return kept coming
up. Like, one of the one of the
guys said I never thought I could get
my endowments in this life, and
I'm gonna figure out how to come back
and do that and just those kind of
comments and the music and the everything. And
then we finally got them on the buses
to send them back
to their homes, and they had to figure
out how to get from the bus
drop off
to to their homes, which was a big
sacrifice for
I would say almost most of them was
probably a big sacrifice.
So Oh, that's so cool. So awesome. Any
other
story that, you wanna make sure we we
cover? Any other dynamic?
No. I have so many I have so
many stories. It could take a long time,
but I I I just
we had a lot of opposition. Like, I
could feel it. It was so heavy and
thick and I should've stopped and said, oh,
that means it's gonna be really good, but
I forget to do that until after.
And so and and because we weren't I
realized that
one of my one of my hang ups
was,
you know, because I've been a leader
in many, many different
places in the church and had so many
opportunities
of doing more, like, big things or whatever.
But I always under the guise of the
church and we weren't this time. In fact,
we were we were not
being really,
we were we were on our own and
and we needed to do that because there's
no way you could get the church to
say, okay, you can take 550
people across a border into another country, like,
it it never happened. So it had to
be done this way. But I think in
my mind, just,
just because of my programming and all my
experience
in leadership
is that I didn't feel like I
could have all the angels and all the
help that I kind of had to do
it more on my own because I was
outside of
the boundaries of the church which was so
silly that I didn't realize that till a
couple of days ago when I'm like, Oh,
that's why I felt like I had to
carry this.
It could have been such
a easier,
more peaceful experience on my part had I
had I recognized that because God love these
people and getting them to the temple, it
didn't have to be done
this certain way or whatever. It it it
was okay. And so,
anyway, I just thought that was an interesting
thing that I I learned.
Yeah. I love it. I love it. Brenda,
I so appreciate, that we gotta play some
level of a of a role in this,
you know, and and, obviously, we wanna give
Thank you. Some gratitude to the listening audience
for stepping up and making that happen. And
it was just so, you know, encouraging to
see just donations just flood in thinking, you
know, I thought, yeah, there's Brenda. She had
a cool story, and she's doing this good
thing. Maybe we can, you know, get a
couple thousand dollars and to just see each,
you know, each stretch goal just blown out
of the water, which was definitely needed as
more people,
stepped up wanting to come and and participate
in the open house.
So wow.
Such a special thing to be a part
of, and so I'm so glad. I'm glad
it worked out. We we could not have
done it without the funds. Like, there there
it just and the lord knew that and
just put that all together for you. So
thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
Well, sounds like we need to figure something
else out to help these awesome saints in
the future. And so we'll definitely keep in
touch and,
and see how we can continue to shepherd
people to the temple because that is a
transformational place, and this is, an obvious story
of that.
It it I I know that
it
changed
life and changed
the the it will change the church there.
It will boost it forward
just
in in leaps and bounds
from from the pace they were going. Absolutely.
That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints
podcast. We'd love to hear from you about
your questions or thoughts or comments. You can
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who would really appreciate the perspectives that we
discussed.
Remember,
up your teaching game by listening to the
David Farnsworth presentation by visiting leadingsaints.org/fourteen.
It came as a result of the position
of leadership which was imposed upon us
by the God of heaven who brought forth
a restoration
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And when the declaration was made
concerning the own and only true and living
church upon the face of the earth,
we were immediately put in a position of
loneliness.
The loneliness of leadership
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,
and to which we must face up with
boldness and courage
and ability.