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Anthony Sweat has easily become one of my

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favorite BYU professors to interview. He's been on

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the podcast several times, and he also has

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a remarkable presentation about ambiguity of doctrine in

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our Questioning Saints virtual library.

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He discusses healthy and unhealthy ways we approach

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doctrine, how to help others reconcile doctrine they

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find difficult to believe, especially when we don't

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know much about it. You can watch professor

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Sweatt's entire interview in the Questioning Saints library

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by going to leadingsaints.org/fourteen.

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This will give you access for fourteen days

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at no cost to watch this presentation.

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You'll be better prepared as a leader when

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you do.

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I would be rude if I didn't take

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the time to explain to the newer listeners

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what Leading Saints is. Here goes.

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Leading Saints is an organization that started as

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a hobby blog in 02/2010

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and then really caught some traction in 02/2014

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when the podcast started.

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We talk about all things leadership in the

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context of The Church of Jesus Christ of

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Latter day Saints. We aren't owned by the

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church, but we have a great relationship with

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them and always aim to be faith promoting

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even though we talk about the tough topics.

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My name is Kurt Frankem. I'm generally the

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voice you hear as the host of the

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podcast.

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I've tried to get other hosts, but people

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demand my smooth tone,

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and I really enjoy it. Check out leadingsaints.org

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to really get into the weeds of what

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Leading Saints is and learn all about our

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mission to help Latter day Saints be better

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prepared to lead. The following episode is a

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throwback episode, one that was published previously and

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was extremely popular. To see the details of

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when this was originally published, see the show

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notes. Enjoy this throwback episode.

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Today, I'm in Downtown Salt Lake City at

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the Church History Library with Jenny Reeder. How

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are you, Jenny? I'm great. I'm so happy

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to be downtown

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again. You you've had you spent some time

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away from your I did. Main office building,

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right, like many of us? Yes. Awesome. And,

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and so how how do you describe your

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your role here at the church in the,

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I guess, the church history department is would

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be accurate? Yes. I am the

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nineteenth century women's history specialist in the church

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history department. I were I'm in the publications

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division, and so I work quite a bit

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on

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the church historian's press, editorial board, and website,

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and producing women's writings

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for that. That's awesome. And so you get

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to read read some pretty cool journals and

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letters and find information that hasn't been read

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in maybe decades. Right? Yeah. Lately, I've been

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working mostly with, Minute Books.

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Minute Books, they used to keep minutes of

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their meetings. So relief societies and primaries and

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young women as I'm tracing Eliza r Snow

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with her discourses.

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Yeah. It's a lot of fun. That's cool.

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Yeah. Minutes is something it's a it's a

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lost art. I'm probably we probably should do

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better at giving minutes in our meetings, but,

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you know, we we do our best. But

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That's right. Now your name you'll is will

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pop up in Desert Book. You recently read

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a Yes. Wrote a book about Emma. Right?

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That's right. I just published a book. It's

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called First, The Life and Faith of Emma

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Smith.

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And

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I had such a great experience writing it.

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It was hard.

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There was a lot of digging to do,

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but she didn't leave a lot of her

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own words. And a lot of the contemporary

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sources, contemporary primary sources

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are

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hard to

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find. But because of the access I had

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to the Joseph Smith papers, I was able

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to

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dig out a lot. And I also traveled

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to the community of Christ, the former reorganized

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church

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in

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Independence, Missouri, and able to find even more

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of Emma's own words after Joseph died. So

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it was a lot of it was fascinating.

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And I learned a lot. I had to

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kind of speculate a lot, but I was

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I tried to be very clear Yeah. In

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stating what I didn't know, but what we

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we could somehow put pieces together. Yeah. So

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what was the overall goal of that book

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as you were beginning to write it? So

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Deseret Book reached out to me and asked

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me to write it. And my overall goal

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coincided

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with what the General Relief Society presidency

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wanted. They wanted me to write about Emma

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as

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a pillar of the restoration

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and as

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a significant

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founder of the church with Joseph. They were

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particularly

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interested in polygamy

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because I that's a question that plagues many

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people today.

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Also, Emma's political activism

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and

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her business propriety,

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also

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her life after Joseph died. Yeah. And these

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are all things that I think we don't

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we don't

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talk about a whole lot.

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And

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my purpose,

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in addition to that, was to make Emma

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a real woman,

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to show how complicated she was and how

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complicated her life was and how

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committed she was, but also how her heart

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was broken in so many different ways.

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I wanted to do that to show that

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women today and church members today and men

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today I don't want to divide it up

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by gender

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need to realize how important a role we

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play and what President Nelson calls the continuing

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restoration,

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but also that Emma was

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helped make Joseph who he was, and that

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we need to continue that kind of

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work together, partnership, companionship,

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complimentary

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assistance to each other as we serve in

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the church and as we build the kingdom.

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Yeah. So what do you think is the

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biggest misconception we have about Emma? Oh, that's

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such a fun question.

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That's maybe its own podcast episode. I know.

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Right? I actually think it's it's that

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so many members of the church

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were influenced by

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Brigham Young and his generation in thinking that

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Emma was,

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a bad person, that she had fallen or

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that she had lost her testimony and left

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the church

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because she didn't come west with the other

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pioneers.

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And that's, I mean, that is a good

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point.

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However, I think that if we look more

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into Emma's life, especially that period after Joseph's

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death, we can see how she indeed kept

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her testimony and her conviction of the Book

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of Mormon and and then the role of

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her husband as the prophet,

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and how much she loved

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her children, her adult children, and what kind

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of relationship she had with them.

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She did have tension with Brigham Young, but

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I think at the very end of her

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life, there's a story of

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her a dream that she had right before

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she died, where Joseph came for her and

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took her to a mansion. And in the

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mansion was one of her babies that she

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had lost at the age of 14.

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And she picked him up and Joseph said,

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you'll have all of them. And then she

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turned and saw the savior, Jesus Christ.

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And so that's why I think Emma's is

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a story of redemption. And if we go

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to the end, we can see that. Yeah.

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And didn't Joseph say something like, I'll go

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to the depths of hell for Yeah. Emma.

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Right? And it's funny because sometimes that's misquoted.

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But the actual occurrence of when that happened,

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Joseph was watching Emma. I don't know what

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she was doing, whether she was

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hosting an event in their home

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or what. But he kinda leaned over to

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someone who was sitting next to him or

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standing next to him and said,

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man, I would go to hell for that

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woman. Oh, yeah. Like, as a total compliment

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of how much he loved her and how

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much he would do for her. But that

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also got twisted. Interesting. And I think Brigham

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Young was part of that just in saying

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he's going to have to go to hell

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to get her. Yeah. That's not Yeah. And

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it and it it's funny because it was

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about a hundred years before people really began

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to look into Emma as a significant

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part of the restoration. They always kind of

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fell into that

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that habit of thinking about her. Yeah. The

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human nature was, in all of us. And,

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you know, in the history,

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of all these individuals. So

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so I I wanna dig in with our

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point of this interview, and I'm excited to

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explore

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not only Emma, but some of these other

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stalwart pillars of leadership,

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women

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in in the history of the church. And,

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you know, it's we hear all these stories

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and, you know, growing up in the church

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going through Come Follow Me with Doctrine Comes,

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you hear, you know, similar stories over and

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over again. And sometimes these names that maybe

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didn't make it in the Doctrine and Covenants

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or some of the well known history,

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historical manuals, we we miss we skip over

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them and lose some of that rich history.

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So we're gonna dive into that. But first,

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I wanna pivot to a little bit of

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your personal history because, you're a cancer survivor.

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Right? I am. I am. I some I

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sometimes hesitate to use the word survivor because

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I

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my cancer, my leukemia has recurred four times

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Oh, wow. Since 02/2010.

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So I don't know. I mean, I guess

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I'm a survivor of those those four times,

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but in the back of my head, I'm

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always worried that it's gonna come back.

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And there's a there's a chance. Yeah. But

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the more that I go, I've been in

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remission since 2017.

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Oh, wow. So that's a really long time.

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And the more time that passes, the less

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chance of it coming back.

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So I'm I'm delighted with that. And I

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it's funny though, because I've noticed how it's

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really affected my life physically.

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I get so tired. I used to be

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a marathon runner. I used to do body

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pump at the gym, and I've just realized

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that I can't do that anymore. Yeah. And

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that's okay. I can do other things, but

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I'm just

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not the old Jenny. Yeah. Yeah. And,

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I mean, again, that's a whole I'm sure

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there's a personal history in the writing somewhere

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about those things, but it's interesting that you

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went through this,

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this cancer experience while you were Relief Society

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president. Yes. And I would imagine I mean,

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most bishops out there are thinking the Relief

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Society president has cancer. Let's release her and

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at least take that off her plate. Right?

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But I think there is a hidden blessing

270
00:10:05,325 --> 00:10:06,845
in maybe allowing you to stay there. So

271
00:10:06,845 --> 00:10:09,245
maybe what what's the story behind that? So

272
00:10:09,245 --> 00:10:11,804
I was living in Northern Virginia. I was

273
00:10:11,804 --> 00:10:15,269
in graduate school at George Mason University. So

274
00:10:15,269 --> 00:10:16,170
I lived in

275
00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:17,610
South Arlington,

276
00:10:18,070 --> 00:10:19,769
Virginia, just outside of DC.

277
00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:23,029
And I had the greatest ward. It was

278
00:10:23,029 --> 00:10:23,850
the I,

279
00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:26,149
I, I don't know that I can have

280
00:10:26,149 --> 00:10:28,245
ever have another ward like that. It was

281
00:10:28,245 --> 00:10:29,784
just a very high functioning

282
00:10:30,085 --> 00:10:31,784
ward. And my Bishop

283
00:10:32,085 --> 00:10:34,504
had called me to be Relief Society President

284
00:10:35,044 --> 00:10:35,544
in

285
00:10:36,085 --> 00:10:38,345
September, I think it was, of 2010.

286
00:10:38,804 --> 00:10:41,284
And within the next couple of months, we

287
00:10:41,284 --> 00:10:41,784
had,

288
00:10:42,610 --> 00:10:44,549
an older woman who passed away.

289
00:10:45,009 --> 00:10:46,850
And then we had a baby who was

290
00:10:46,850 --> 00:10:49,750
born with trisomy nineteen who passed away.

291
00:10:50,210 --> 00:10:52,850
And then in November I was diagnosed with

292
00:10:52,850 --> 00:10:55,250
leukemia. So it was just like, boom, boom,

293
00:10:55,250 --> 00:10:58,575
boom, crazy stuff all in a row.

294
00:10:58,955 --> 00:11:00,955
But my Bishop, he and I got along

295
00:11:00,955 --> 00:11:02,475
very well. He's a dear friend. He's still

296
00:11:02,475 --> 00:11:05,054
a dear friend of mine. And he really

297
00:11:05,674 --> 00:11:08,955
wanted to keep me in. It was something

298
00:11:08,955 --> 00:11:11,534
he said immediately after my diagnosis.

299
00:11:12,209 --> 00:11:14,049
He really wanted to keep me in that

300
00:11:14,049 --> 00:11:14,549
position.

301
00:11:15,169 --> 00:11:16,789
I had incredible counselors

302
00:11:17,409 --> 00:11:19,009
who were able to shoulder a lot of

303
00:11:19,009 --> 00:11:21,329
what I couldn't do, but I actually did

304
00:11:21,329 --> 00:11:24,449
lead from my hospital bed or my bedroom

305
00:11:24,449 --> 00:11:26,435
at home. In fact, this is back in

306
00:11:26,435 --> 00:11:28,695
02/2010. And when I was in the hospital,

307
00:11:28,995 --> 00:11:31,315
the elders corps president really wanted to loop

308
00:11:31,315 --> 00:11:34,514
me in to ward council. And so he

309
00:11:34,675 --> 00:11:36,915
this is before Zoom. Right? Yeah. And I

310
00:11:36,915 --> 00:11:39,059
don't know how he figured it out, but

311
00:11:39,059 --> 00:11:41,639
he got a camera for my computer.

312
00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:42,600
And

313
00:11:43,139 --> 00:11:44,419
so I was a part of that for

314
00:11:44,419 --> 00:11:46,759
my hospital bed, and it was so cool.

315
00:11:46,980 --> 00:11:48,899
And then later on, I realized, you know,

316
00:11:48,899 --> 00:11:50,200
there are really great things

317
00:11:50,820 --> 00:11:52,980
that I can do. I think I can

318
00:11:52,980 --> 00:11:53,480
visit

319
00:11:53,779 --> 00:11:54,440
or have

320
00:11:54,794 --> 00:11:57,754
less active members visit me at home because

321
00:11:57,754 --> 00:11:59,835
they're not gonna say no to going to

322
00:11:59,835 --> 00:12:02,875
visit a cancer ridden relief society president. Yeah.

323
00:12:02,875 --> 00:12:05,034
Right? And then another thing my bishop taught

324
00:12:05,034 --> 00:12:06,875
me was that I needed to learn how

325
00:12:06,875 --> 00:12:07,934
to receive service.

326
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,940
So I had an incredible compassionate service leader

327
00:12:12,079 --> 00:12:13,779
who made a calendar

328
00:12:14,319 --> 00:12:16,959
and people signed up to take me to

329
00:12:16,959 --> 00:12:17,459
appointments

330
00:12:17,919 --> 00:12:19,919
when I was home and couldn't drive or

331
00:12:19,919 --> 00:12:21,759
to bring me meals or even to come

332
00:12:21,759 --> 00:12:24,815
visit me in the afternoons. I had, I

333
00:12:24,815 --> 00:12:27,535
had three roommates who worked all day. And

334
00:12:27,535 --> 00:12:29,375
so it was just nice to have someone

335
00:12:29,375 --> 00:12:32,495
come and check-in with me. And sometimes it

336
00:12:32,495 --> 00:12:32,995
was

337
00:12:33,934 --> 00:12:36,254
one time it was Marian Anderson and she

338
00:12:36,254 --> 00:12:37,855
just sat on the stairs and cried with

339
00:12:37,855 --> 00:12:39,289
me. It'd been a hard day, but she

340
00:12:39,289 --> 00:12:40,730
just put her arm around me and cried

341
00:12:40,730 --> 00:12:43,070
with me. And that was so powerful.

342
00:12:43,850 --> 00:12:46,009
And other times someone would come over and

343
00:12:46,009 --> 00:12:48,330
vacuum my floor, and I felt so dumb

344
00:12:48,330 --> 00:12:50,909
asking someone to vacuum my floor.

345
00:12:51,725 --> 00:12:53,725
It was an incredible experience. And I got

346
00:12:53,725 --> 00:12:55,884
to know those women in my relief society

347
00:12:55,884 --> 00:12:57,584
on, on such a deep level.

348
00:12:58,204 --> 00:13:01,804
I also loved, sending emails and sending cards

349
00:13:01,804 --> 00:13:03,985
in the mail, old school snail mail,

350
00:13:04,509 --> 00:13:06,029
But it was so funny because I could

351
00:13:06,029 --> 00:13:09,629
feel the spirit directing me in writing to

352
00:13:09,629 --> 00:13:11,870
know what they wanted, what they needed to

353
00:13:11,870 --> 00:13:14,190
hear. And it was almost like I was

354
00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:15,009
giving them

355
00:13:15,309 --> 00:13:15,809
blessings

356
00:13:16,605 --> 00:13:19,004
through a pen and a cheap card from

357
00:13:19,004 --> 00:13:20,384
the dollar spot at Target.

358
00:13:20,924 --> 00:13:23,985
I was completely aware of what they needed

359
00:13:24,205 --> 00:13:26,544
and it was actually a really beautiful time.

360
00:13:26,684 --> 00:13:28,445
It saved me in a way to be

361
00:13:28,445 --> 00:13:30,065
able to have that kind of distraction.

362
00:13:30,445 --> 00:13:30,945
Yeah.

363
00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:33,899
Instead of curling up in a ball and,

364
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:35,799
and staying in bed all day. Yeah. And

365
00:13:35,799 --> 00:13:37,960
that's what I'm intrigued by is that when

366
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,460
you get a cancer diagnosis, I mean, obviously

367
00:13:40,519 --> 00:13:42,860
your priorities go from many to like

368
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,160
one is, which is I need to stay

369
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:46,815
alive. I need to figure or am I

370
00:13:46,815 --> 00:13:48,735
going to die? Like, I mean, I would

371
00:13:48,735 --> 00:13:51,154
imagine I know I can see my

372
00:13:51,534 --> 00:13:53,855
my brain going this direction of just obsessing

373
00:13:53,855 --> 00:13:55,934
over that. Like, you know, am I going

374
00:13:56,014 --> 00:13:57,534
gonna be here in five years, you know,

375
00:13:57,534 --> 00:13:59,214
in three years. Right? And so how did

376
00:13:59,294 --> 00:14:01,475
in that state of mind, without that that

377
00:14:01,830 --> 00:14:03,830
heaviness and trauma, how do you even begin

378
00:14:03,830 --> 00:14:05,670
to reply to an email or say, Yeah,

379
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:07,670
what should we do for, you know, Relief

380
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:09,910
Society? You know, I think that's a really

381
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:11,430
good question. And I think that was the

382
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:13,509
first time and then after that several times

383
00:14:13,509 --> 00:14:15,190
in the hospital where I felt like I

384
00:14:15,190 --> 00:14:16,570
was reduced to numbers,

385
00:14:17,004 --> 00:14:18,784
my blood counts, and my

386
00:14:19,164 --> 00:14:21,644
weight, and how much I was intaking and

387
00:14:21,644 --> 00:14:24,284
outputting, and how much what how many red

388
00:14:24,284 --> 00:14:25,964
blood cells, and how many platelets, and how

389
00:14:25,964 --> 00:14:28,365
many white blood cells, and neutrophils, and all

390
00:14:28,365 --> 00:14:30,929
these other things. So I think it was

391
00:14:30,929 --> 00:14:33,090
me fighting to remember that I was more

392
00:14:33,090 --> 00:14:33,910
than a number,

393
00:14:34,450 --> 00:14:37,350
and that was what kept me going. Yeah.

394
00:14:37,410 --> 00:14:38,389
And it was incredible.

395
00:14:38,929 --> 00:14:40,690
Yeah. And did you feel like I mean,

396
00:14:40,690 --> 00:14:42,423
because you need purpose in life. I mean

397
00:14:42,636 --> 00:14:44,690
and we all do, but especially those who

398
00:14:44,690 --> 00:14:45,945
maybe are facing a dramatic

399
00:14:47,065 --> 00:14:49,046
a dramatic diagnosis like that. Were there moments

400
00:14:49,046 --> 00:14:49,785
you had to sort of push through to

401
00:14:49,785 --> 00:14:50,845
reach that purpose? Absolutely.

402
00:14:51,384 --> 00:14:52,924
Yeah. Like, all the time. Yeah.

403
00:14:53,304 --> 00:14:55,485
Like, even just I I remember thinking

404
00:14:55,785 --> 00:14:57,144
and every once in a while, I still

405
00:14:57,144 --> 00:14:58,504
think this because I I'm dealing with a

406
00:14:58,504 --> 00:15:00,184
lot of side effects, and I still have

407
00:15:00,184 --> 00:15:01,860
to take a lot of meds. Nothing like

408
00:15:01,860 --> 00:15:03,160
what I had to take before.

409
00:15:03,540 --> 00:15:05,620
But just thinking every day, I have to

410
00:15:05,620 --> 00:15:07,620
get up and get out of bed and

411
00:15:07,620 --> 00:15:10,100
take a whole bunch of pills and do

412
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:12,580
it all over again. It felt like a

413
00:15:12,580 --> 00:15:14,840
decision I had to make every day.

414
00:15:15,379 --> 00:15:15,879
Okay.

415
00:15:16,544 --> 00:15:19,105
Alright, reader. Let's get out of bed. Alright,

416
00:15:19,105 --> 00:15:20,644
reader. Let's take your pills.

417
00:15:21,024 --> 00:15:23,585
So it was a completely different life than

418
00:15:23,585 --> 00:15:25,825
I had lived before. Yeah. And that's inspiring.

419
00:15:25,825 --> 00:15:27,585
Just it's just the little things, the little

420
00:15:27,585 --> 00:15:29,264
steps of I'm gonna get out of bed.

421
00:15:29,264 --> 00:15:31,790
And I know this Relief Society birthday party

422
00:15:31,790 --> 00:15:33,550
probably doesn't matter in the scheme of eternity

423
00:15:33,550 --> 00:15:35,470
in my life, but today that's going to

424
00:15:35,470 --> 00:15:38,429
give me purpose and Yeah, absolutely. Belief blessing,

425
00:15:38,429 --> 00:15:41,389
right? Yes, absolutely. So, I mean, what would

426
00:15:41,389 --> 00:15:43,485
you say to that, that leader that maybe

427
00:15:43,485 --> 00:15:45,404
has that knee jerk reaction of, okay, this

428
00:15:45,404 --> 00:15:48,125
person has a whether it's a diagnosis, whether

429
00:15:48,125 --> 00:15:50,284
it's a tough time in their marriage, whether

430
00:15:50,284 --> 00:15:52,284
whatever it is, we wanted to say, oh,

431
00:15:52,284 --> 00:15:54,365
well, let's help them by releasing them. But

432
00:15:54,365 --> 00:15:56,125
any and I get it. There's going to

433
00:15:56,125 --> 00:15:58,259
be situations where that may be appropriate. But

434
00:15:58,580 --> 00:16:00,179
how can we better step back and consider

435
00:16:00,179 --> 00:16:02,340
that? I think that's a really good question.

436
00:16:02,340 --> 00:16:04,259
In fact, today, I I had lunch with

437
00:16:04,259 --> 00:16:04,919
a coworker,

438
00:16:05,299 --> 00:16:06,360
and she's single.

439
00:16:06,820 --> 00:16:09,220
She has a brother who she's caring for

440
00:16:09,220 --> 00:16:11,220
who was in a really bad accident and

441
00:16:11,220 --> 00:16:12,200
is now a quadriplegic.

442
00:16:13,284 --> 00:16:15,125
So and she was just called as Relief

443
00:16:15,125 --> 00:16:16,024
Society president.

444
00:16:16,565 --> 00:16:18,264
And so I think that

445
00:16:19,044 --> 00:16:20,345
it's an incredible

446
00:16:20,644 --> 00:16:21,144
opportunity

447
00:16:22,325 --> 00:16:24,884
to learn and to give and serve and

448
00:16:24,884 --> 00:16:27,125
feel yourself being magnified in ways that you've

449
00:16:27,125 --> 00:16:28,745
never been magnified before,

450
00:16:29,059 --> 00:16:30,360
or to receive revelation

451
00:16:30,820 --> 00:16:32,899
in ways that you have never received it

452
00:16:32,899 --> 00:16:35,459
before. And I think that is such a

453
00:16:35,459 --> 00:16:38,579
huge blessing. And for me, I had more

454
00:16:38,579 --> 00:16:40,919
quiet time. I wasn't rushing around

455
00:16:41,504 --> 00:16:45,264
to work or school or whatever, driving in

456
00:16:45,264 --> 00:16:48,065
in DC traffic, but I had more quiet

457
00:16:48,065 --> 00:16:50,625
time where I really could soak in that

458
00:16:50,625 --> 00:16:51,125
spirit.

459
00:16:51,585 --> 00:16:54,225
So and it was an incredible exchange of

460
00:16:54,225 --> 00:16:54,725
service,

461
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:56,540
like truly incredible

462
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,080
where I could, I had to be creative

463
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,799
in serving other people and they served me

464
00:17:01,799 --> 00:17:02,779
in such beautiful,

465
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,220
tender, powerful ways. I remember one friend, Patty,

466
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,474
who was in my relief society and I

467
00:17:08,474 --> 00:17:09,835
really wanted to go to the Temple, but

468
00:17:09,835 --> 00:17:11,515
I was bald and I didn't know if

469
00:17:11,515 --> 00:17:13,355
I had the energy to do everything. And

470
00:17:13,355 --> 00:17:14,714
it was a kind of a long drive

471
00:17:14,714 --> 00:17:16,714
to get to the DC Temple, but she

472
00:17:16,714 --> 00:17:18,875
came with me and she helped me and

473
00:17:18,875 --> 00:17:21,595
it was so beautiful. And my Bishop was

474
00:17:21,595 --> 00:17:22,734
really in,

475
00:17:23,069 --> 00:17:25,549
in tune with the Spirit, I think. But

476
00:17:25,549 --> 00:17:27,710
he also checked in with me several times

477
00:17:27,710 --> 00:17:29,869
a day, whether that was visiting me in

478
00:17:29,869 --> 00:17:31,950
the hospital or when I was home at

479
00:17:31,950 --> 00:17:34,909
home or texting me or calling me or

480
00:17:34,909 --> 00:17:37,404
emailing me, He was just he I was

481
00:17:37,404 --> 00:17:38,765
at the top of his mind and I

482
00:17:38,765 --> 00:17:41,105
knew that, and it made all the difference.

483
00:17:41,325 --> 00:17:43,825
Yeah. So it was actually a very beautiful

484
00:17:44,125 --> 00:17:44,625
experience.

485
00:17:45,005 --> 00:17:46,765
Yeah. And I'm trying to just put my

486
00:17:46,845 --> 00:17:48,365
myself in the shoes of that bishop. Like,

487
00:17:48,365 --> 00:17:49,805
I'd be it'd be so difficult for me

488
00:17:49,805 --> 00:17:52,400
to call and ask my Relief Society president

489
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,880
to do something or to delegate something to

490
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,279
her. But it's not like just that that

491
00:17:57,279 --> 00:17:58,099
open communication

492
00:17:58,559 --> 00:18:01,200
created that opportunity. Right? And it was and

493
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,704
he was more aware, well, more aware of

494
00:18:03,704 --> 00:18:04,204
how

495
00:18:04,505 --> 00:18:06,345
how capable or the Mhmm. Where you were

496
00:18:06,345 --> 00:18:08,105
at and what you could do in each

497
00:18:08,105 --> 00:18:09,464
day to day. Right? Yes. And I was

498
00:18:09,464 --> 00:18:11,865
so grateful for that. Yeah. So grateful that

499
00:18:11,865 --> 00:18:14,265
he got that, that he understood that. I

500
00:18:14,265 --> 00:18:16,204
remember one time when I was doing better,

501
00:18:16,259 --> 00:18:18,119
but I was trying to finish my dissertation

502
00:18:18,339 --> 00:18:20,180
so I could get a job in real

503
00:18:20,180 --> 00:18:20,680
insurance

504
00:18:21,779 --> 00:18:23,160
instead of student insurance.

505
00:18:24,099 --> 00:18:25,640
And he asked me to

506
00:18:26,339 --> 00:18:28,279
go serve at the Bishop's storehouse.

507
00:18:28,634 --> 00:18:30,815
And I was like, are you kidding me?

508
00:18:32,315 --> 00:18:33,775
But I did. And,

509
00:18:34,714 --> 00:18:35,934
it was a great experience.

510
00:18:36,555 --> 00:18:38,555
Wow. That's awesome. You know, another thought that

511
00:18:38,555 --> 00:18:39,994
came to mind, this is gonna be sort

512
00:18:39,994 --> 00:18:42,315
of the maybe an overarching theme of our

513
00:18:42,315 --> 00:18:44,809
conversation today is that we have such a

514
00:18:44,809 --> 00:18:46,809
strong tradition of leadership in our church. I

515
00:18:46,809 --> 00:18:49,210
mean, this this concept of lay leadership and

516
00:18:49,210 --> 00:18:51,130
and the weak and the simple and God

517
00:18:51,130 --> 00:18:51,630
asking

518
00:18:52,330 --> 00:18:55,710
individuals who on paper have no business leading,

519
00:18:55,865 --> 00:18:58,445
you know, even Joseph Smith. Right? But nonetheless,

520
00:18:58,505 --> 00:19:00,525
there's such a sanctifying nature to it. And

521
00:19:00,664 --> 00:19:02,904
when we are in these situations where mentally

522
00:19:02,904 --> 00:19:05,144
we sort of set people aside outside of

523
00:19:05,144 --> 00:19:06,365
the leadership

524
00:19:06,904 --> 00:19:07,404
possibility,

525
00:19:07,785 --> 00:19:10,319
it sort of is this disconnection from our

526
00:19:10,319 --> 00:19:12,960
tradition as as saints. Mhmm. And so when

527
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,640
somebody is going through a hard time or

528
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,220
cancer or health problems, you know, we we

529
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,839
we should lean into that and still consider

530
00:19:19,839 --> 00:19:21,440
them for these things or or not release

531
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,625
them too quickly because it's so much has

532
00:19:23,625 --> 00:19:25,585
a deep tradition of being a Latter day

533
00:19:25,585 --> 00:19:27,345
Saint is being asked to serve and many

534
00:19:27,345 --> 00:19:28,945
times being asked to lead, you know, and

535
00:19:28,945 --> 00:19:30,384
and what a great blessing it was in

536
00:19:30,384 --> 00:19:31,904
in your life. Yeah. You know, one of

537
00:19:31,904 --> 00:19:33,904
the things that I've loved in my research

538
00:19:33,904 --> 00:19:35,525
of the Nauvoo Relief Society

539
00:19:36,065 --> 00:19:36,805
is that

540
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,679
the two goals, according to Joseph Smith of

541
00:19:39,679 --> 00:19:41,940
the relief society, were to provide relief

542
00:19:42,399 --> 00:19:43,700
and to save souls.

543
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,679
And I gained such an incredible testimony of

544
00:19:47,679 --> 00:19:51,039
that because of my experience, my personal health

545
00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:51,539
issues,

546
00:19:51,934 --> 00:19:54,914
that when I provided relief to someone else,

547
00:19:55,214 --> 00:19:56,194
I found relief

548
00:19:56,575 --> 00:19:57,315
for myself.

549
00:19:57,775 --> 00:20:01,714
And that work of relief is salvific work.

550
00:20:02,015 --> 00:20:04,035
It was beautiful. And I learned

551
00:20:04,369 --> 00:20:05,110
a completely

552
00:20:05,890 --> 00:20:08,450
new layer of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

553
00:20:08,450 --> 00:20:09,970
It was very powerful. Yeah. And and there's

554
00:20:09,970 --> 00:20:11,570
people you're talking about, a sister who sat

555
00:20:11,570 --> 00:20:13,170
with you and cried with you, like, as

556
00:20:13,170 --> 00:20:15,009
you learn how to sit with people in

557
00:20:15,009 --> 00:20:18,035
their trauma, in their trial, then you were

558
00:20:18,035 --> 00:20:19,634
able to do that to others. You know,

559
00:20:19,634 --> 00:20:21,894
that's the truth. That grace for grace principle.

560
00:20:21,954 --> 00:20:23,875
Right. And I think my friend, Marion, that

561
00:20:23,875 --> 00:20:25,414
did that, I think she

562
00:20:25,795 --> 00:20:28,835
had such a an insightful experience herself that

563
00:20:28,835 --> 00:20:31,075
she would continue to do that with other

564
00:20:31,075 --> 00:20:31,575
people.

565
00:20:31,890 --> 00:20:34,130
And I love that. Yeah. That's what Relief

566
00:20:34,130 --> 00:20:37,589
Society is. Yeah. And and just really inspiring

567
00:20:37,650 --> 00:20:38,470
story. And

568
00:20:38,769 --> 00:20:40,529
and because it can feel like, oh, a

569
00:20:40,529 --> 00:20:42,529
way I can serve, you know, sister Rita

570
00:20:42,529 --> 00:20:44,204
is by releasing her. And, you you know,

571
00:20:44,204 --> 00:20:46,044
that's how I'm gonna serve her. But instead,

572
00:20:46,044 --> 00:20:48,044
just step back and be prayerful about this

573
00:20:48,044 --> 00:20:49,804
process and say, well, actually, there could be

574
00:20:49,804 --> 00:20:52,284
some deeper blessings here for this individual. So

575
00:20:52,444 --> 00:20:54,304
And you know one more thing, I think.

576
00:20:54,365 --> 00:20:56,444
And I saw this when when I had

577
00:20:56,444 --> 00:20:58,224
my second bone marrow transplant.

578
00:20:58,769 --> 00:20:59,269
My

579
00:20:59,570 --> 00:21:01,090
and I think this happened the first time

580
00:21:01,090 --> 00:21:03,650
and that second time, but my bishops in

581
00:21:03,650 --> 00:21:06,210
both times realized that this was actually really

582
00:21:06,210 --> 00:21:08,930
a way to rally the ward. Mhmm. You

583
00:21:08,930 --> 00:21:11,554
know, we had ward fast for me and

584
00:21:12,174 --> 00:21:13,934
people were praying for me and I could

585
00:21:13,934 --> 00:21:15,615
feel that. And that second time, it was

586
00:21:15,615 --> 00:21:17,694
during a time where I was so sick

587
00:21:17,694 --> 00:21:20,174
and I really honestly would have been fine

588
00:21:20,174 --> 00:21:21,714
if I died. Mhmm.

589
00:21:22,174 --> 00:21:23,869
But the fact that I knew that people

590
00:21:23,869 --> 00:21:25,950
were praying and fasting for me and they

591
00:21:25,950 --> 00:21:27,650
had faith for me when I couldn't

592
00:21:28,349 --> 00:21:31,230
really rallied the ward, and it buoyed me

593
00:21:31,230 --> 00:21:33,869
up in an incredible way. Wow. Wow. That's

594
00:21:33,869 --> 00:21:36,134
inspiring. Anything else from just that time of

595
00:21:36,134 --> 00:21:38,494
your life and being a leader that, we

596
00:21:38,494 --> 00:21:39,474
need to touch on?

597
00:21:40,015 --> 00:21:43,295
I think it's incredible to develop relationships that

598
00:21:43,295 --> 00:21:44,115
will continue.

599
00:21:44,494 --> 00:21:47,154
I'm single, so I'm a little bit transitory,

600
00:21:48,015 --> 00:21:49,855
but I did live live in DC for

601
00:21:49,855 --> 00:21:52,190
seven years, and we

602
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:55,529
became each other's family. And it was beautiful.

603
00:21:55,529 --> 00:21:58,089
And I love the way that they rallied

604
00:21:58,089 --> 00:21:58,910
around me.

605
00:21:59,289 --> 00:22:00,349
When I graduated

606
00:22:00,730 --> 00:22:02,349
and moved back to Utah,

607
00:22:02,730 --> 00:22:04,970
the next Relief Society president had been my

608
00:22:04,970 --> 00:22:07,884
compassionate service leader, and she was diagnosed with

609
00:22:07,884 --> 00:22:08,705
breast cancer.

610
00:22:09,404 --> 00:22:10,924
So we kind of joked that it was

611
00:22:10,924 --> 00:22:11,505
the curse

612
00:22:12,525 --> 00:22:13,265
of the president,

613
00:22:13,884 --> 00:22:15,964
but it was incredible. Even though I wasn't

614
00:22:15,964 --> 00:22:18,445
living there, I was watching the way people

615
00:22:18,445 --> 00:22:20,910
took care of her. And then we've had

616
00:22:20,970 --> 00:22:23,690
such deep tragedies come out of that ward

617
00:22:23,690 --> 00:22:25,309
as people have moved on.

618
00:22:25,690 --> 00:22:27,390
A friend who moved to Bountiful

619
00:22:28,089 --> 00:22:30,490
lost her five year old boy in a

620
00:22:30,490 --> 00:22:32,970
drowning accident on a family reunion in Costa

621
00:22:32,970 --> 00:22:36,535
Rica. And everyone from that ward just came

622
00:22:36,835 --> 00:22:37,815
from all directions

623
00:22:38,434 --> 00:22:41,075
to support her and love her. Another woman

624
00:22:41,075 --> 00:22:42,914
in the ward who was still living in

625
00:22:42,914 --> 00:22:45,555
DC, her husband was a lobbyist and he

626
00:22:45,555 --> 00:22:47,680
was in, he was in China And she

627
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,519
had just had her fourth baby, like, six

628
00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:51,279
weeks before, and he died of a staph

629
00:22:51,279 --> 00:22:53,700
infection. Ugh. Like, so random.

630
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,700
And that ward

631
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,580
from all over again, all over the country,

632
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,934
just rallied around her and made sure that

633
00:23:01,934 --> 00:23:04,174
she had the financial means to stay home

634
00:23:04,174 --> 00:23:05,775
with her sons for as long as she

635
00:23:05,775 --> 00:23:08,894
could, and had people go over and, and

636
00:23:08,894 --> 00:23:11,934
build playgrounds and take the sons and, and

637
00:23:11,934 --> 00:23:13,934
do all sorts of things. And it, it

638
00:23:13,934 --> 00:23:14,994
was such a beautiful,

639
00:23:15,369 --> 00:23:18,169
beautiful thing. And there's countless other examples of

640
00:23:18,169 --> 00:23:20,589
that, but that ward just became this

641
00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:21,470
expansive,

642
00:23:22,569 --> 00:23:25,869
web all across the country where whenever anyone

643
00:23:26,009 --> 00:23:28,509
needed help, we knew we could call on

644
00:23:28,964 --> 00:23:31,684
friends from that ward. Yeah. That's inspiring. That's

645
00:23:31,684 --> 00:23:34,244
awesome. So let's put that into, back to

646
00:23:34,244 --> 00:23:36,244
to history a little bit. There's so many

647
00:23:36,325 --> 00:23:38,244
I have a list of of your notes

648
00:23:38,244 --> 00:23:40,484
here that, I'm I'm so excited to talk

649
00:23:40,484 --> 00:23:42,950
about that. And maybe let's talk about this

650
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:45,430
concept of authority. And let me preface this

651
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:47,990
with, I just got this email this week

652
00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:50,309
and I've gotten a similar email from so

653
00:23:50,309 --> 00:23:51,769
many other sisters where

654
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:54,069
because there is this feeling, there is this

655
00:23:54,069 --> 00:23:55,690
movement, and I think every

656
00:23:56,484 --> 00:23:57,784
male leader out there

657
00:23:58,085 --> 00:23:59,625
wants to include the sisters

658
00:24:00,325 --> 00:24:03,125
in meetings and ward council. And and so

659
00:24:03,125 --> 00:24:05,125
they're doing different things to do that. You

660
00:24:05,125 --> 00:24:06,565
know, they may not hit it right on

661
00:24:06,565 --> 00:24:08,644
the the head every time, but they're they're

662
00:24:08,644 --> 00:24:10,150
really trying to do that because, you know,

663
00:24:10,150 --> 00:24:12,630
they don't they don't want to dominate or

664
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:13,690
anything like that.

665
00:24:14,150 --> 00:24:16,710
And this one sister basically said, like, I've

666
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:19,190
been really excited president. I've been primary president.

667
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:20,549
I've been in these word council meetings. I

668
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:22,069
see the bishop trying, but at the end

669
00:24:22,069 --> 00:24:22,875
of the day,

670
00:24:23,194 --> 00:24:25,434
he makes the final call. Right? And so

671
00:24:25,434 --> 00:24:27,375
there's this feeling of, like, no matter

672
00:24:27,835 --> 00:24:29,755
how we lay the chairs out in word

673
00:24:29,755 --> 00:24:31,914
council or what we do, there's always this

674
00:24:31,914 --> 00:24:32,414
limiting

675
00:24:33,194 --> 00:24:33,694
influence

676
00:24:34,075 --> 00:24:36,289
that women have. What thoughts come to mind

677
00:24:36,289 --> 00:24:37,509
that maybe you can launch us

678
00:24:37,809 --> 00:24:40,049
into some history? Sure. So a couple of

679
00:24:40,049 --> 00:24:42,369
thoughts come to mind, and I've been a

680
00:24:42,369 --> 00:24:44,390
Relief Society president three times.

681
00:24:44,849 --> 00:24:46,869
Wow. And I've and I've worked with

682
00:24:47,569 --> 00:24:49,589
several different bishops. You know?

683
00:24:50,444 --> 00:24:52,304
Yeah, and I've been young women's president.

684
00:24:52,605 --> 00:24:54,845
And the last two young women's president and

685
00:24:54,845 --> 00:24:56,684
last Relief Society president were in inner city

686
00:24:56,684 --> 00:24:59,085
wards in Salt Lake City, and which was

687
00:24:59,085 --> 00:25:00,784
a completely different experience

688
00:25:01,404 --> 00:25:03,960
as well. And I have seen how different

689
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,460
bishops work, and some work very cohesively

690
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,700
with the with the women leaders,

691
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,440
and some don't. And that's just the their

692
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,400
past experience and their understanding, and and that's

693
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,345
just the way it goes. But I've seen

694
00:25:17,345 --> 00:25:18,484
it work fantastically.

695
00:25:18,865 --> 00:25:20,965
And so I believe it can happen,

696
00:25:21,345 --> 00:25:23,025
which is also a curse because when it

697
00:25:23,025 --> 00:25:26,545
hasn't worked, it's very frustrating. Yeah. I think

698
00:25:26,545 --> 00:25:29,025
that it really comes down to the fact,

699
00:25:29,025 --> 00:25:30,945
and now I'm going to turn to history.

700
00:25:30,945 --> 00:25:34,339
Yeah. With the organization of the Nauvoo Relief

701
00:25:34,339 --> 00:25:34,839
Society,

702
00:25:35,140 --> 00:25:37,220
Joseph Smith said that the church was never

703
00:25:37,220 --> 00:25:39,799
fully organized until the women were organized.

704
00:25:40,259 --> 00:25:42,980
And he intended for the Relief Society to

705
00:25:42,980 --> 00:25:45,480
be as a sort of companion

706
00:25:46,345 --> 00:25:48,825
to the priesthood quorum, as an order of

707
00:25:48,825 --> 00:25:51,224
the priesthood quorum. And and sometimes Eliza r

708
00:25:51,224 --> 00:25:53,224
Snow and other people say things like, the

709
00:25:53,224 --> 00:25:55,325
Relief Society is just another quorum

710
00:25:55,625 --> 00:25:56,365
of the priesthood.

711
00:25:56,825 --> 00:25:59,304
So we don't use those words today Mhmm.

712
00:25:59,384 --> 00:25:59,884
Obviously.

713
00:26:00,409 --> 00:26:02,109
But I think that if we realize

714
00:26:02,490 --> 00:26:03,390
how significant

715
00:26:04,329 --> 00:26:06,349
the relief society is,

716
00:26:06,730 --> 00:26:08,109
both men and women,

717
00:26:08,649 --> 00:26:11,130
that we can realize how valuable it is

718
00:26:11,130 --> 00:26:14,345
to have women involved in word councils and

719
00:26:14,345 --> 00:26:17,065
in making decisions and in trusting them. I

720
00:26:17,065 --> 00:26:19,004
love the talk that Elder Oaks gave.

721
00:26:19,544 --> 00:26:21,704
I can't remember when it was. I think

722
00:26:21,704 --> 00:26:22,365
it was

723
00:26:22,904 --> 00:26:24,904
Probably five years ago? Yeah. And it was

724
00:26:24,904 --> 00:26:26,984
in a priesthood session. Yeah. But he talked

725
00:26:26,984 --> 00:26:28,924
about how when women receive

726
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,340
callings or assignments by priesthood leadership, that they

727
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,259
have priesthood authority

728
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:36,019
in their stewardship.

729
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,019
And I think that's a pure gospel

730
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,119
doctrine. That's a pure term and a pure

731
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:41,619
idea.

732
00:26:42,075 --> 00:26:45,375
And I think sometimes bishops want to

733
00:26:46,075 --> 00:26:46,575
crowdsource

734
00:26:46,954 --> 00:26:47,855
and allow

735
00:26:48,394 --> 00:26:50,394
other members of the council to do things.

736
00:26:50,394 --> 00:26:52,154
And other times they want to keep a

737
00:26:52,154 --> 00:26:54,875
tighter fist on on things. But I think

738
00:26:54,875 --> 00:26:56,174
the most fruitful

739
00:26:56,554 --> 00:26:57,054
and

740
00:26:57,599 --> 00:27:01,519
beneficial experience for everybody is when women are

741
00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:04,319
recognized for that leadership and given the room

742
00:27:04,319 --> 00:27:06,240
to do what they can. I think it's

743
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:07,920
interesting that things have changed a little bit

744
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,880
under president Nelson, where he really has asked

745
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,460
the bishops

746
00:27:12,565 --> 00:27:14,644
to be more involved with the youth and

747
00:27:14,644 --> 00:27:17,285
for Relief Society presidents and elder elders corn

748
00:27:17,285 --> 00:27:19,845
presidents to sort of lead the other efforts

749
00:27:19,845 --> 00:27:20,664
in the church.

750
00:27:21,045 --> 00:27:23,125
And I think that's incredible. That takes a

751
00:27:23,125 --> 00:27:25,285
lot of trust, I think, of the people

752
00:27:25,285 --> 00:27:26,985
that you that are in those positions.

753
00:27:27,380 --> 00:27:29,480
But I love the way that Emma Smith

754
00:27:29,860 --> 00:27:31,960
really asserted that and she really

755
00:27:32,340 --> 00:27:34,680
understood that. Now in her

756
00:27:34,980 --> 00:27:37,380
revelation that we now know today is section

757
00:27:37,380 --> 00:27:39,160
25 of the Doctrine and Covenants.

758
00:27:39,585 --> 00:27:41,585
She was told that she was an elect

759
00:27:41,585 --> 00:27:42,085
lady,

760
00:27:42,384 --> 00:27:43,605
and she was

761
00:27:43,904 --> 00:27:46,164
she was told that she would expound scriptures

762
00:27:46,304 --> 00:27:47,605
and exhort the church.

763
00:27:47,904 --> 00:27:49,265
And I think that was kind of a

764
00:27:49,265 --> 00:27:51,845
hard thing for her to understand in 1830,

765
00:27:51,984 --> 00:27:52,484
women

766
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,860
didn't so much lead organizations.

767
00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:57,500
Well, they did lead female organizations,

768
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,420
but they didn't so much preach.

769
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,039
And if they did preach, they were kind

770
00:28:02,039 --> 00:28:03,500
of seen as the outliers

771
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:04,619
and the

772
00:28:05,174 --> 00:28:05,674
crazies.

773
00:28:06,455 --> 00:28:09,735
Yeah. Radicals. Right? Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So I

774
00:28:09,735 --> 00:28:11,815
think that she had to figure out what

775
00:28:11,815 --> 00:28:13,815
that meant. And it was actually not for

776
00:28:13,815 --> 00:28:16,875
twelve years until the Relief Society was organized.

777
00:28:17,339 --> 00:28:19,099
And they were in a more stable place

778
00:28:19,099 --> 00:28:20,880
in Nauvoo where they could organize.

779
00:28:21,339 --> 00:28:24,140
And I think that she learned how to

780
00:28:24,140 --> 00:28:26,880
lead and she learned and established what her

781
00:28:27,019 --> 00:28:28,880
principles of leadership were.

782
00:28:29,259 --> 00:28:30,240
She was very

783
00:28:30,924 --> 00:28:34,065
understanding of the needs in the community.

784
00:28:34,605 --> 00:28:37,164
And so we get this incredible exchange of

785
00:28:37,164 --> 00:28:37,664
services

786
00:28:38,125 --> 00:28:40,605
where someone will come and say, I need

787
00:28:40,605 --> 00:28:42,545
work. I'm a really good seamstress.

788
00:28:43,005 --> 00:28:45,244
And someone will come and say, I need

789
00:28:45,244 --> 00:28:47,880
clothing and that she matches them up. So

790
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,259
it's this incredible coordination and exchange of services.

791
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,659
But she's also tasked with

792
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,079
with leading the moral purity of the community

793
00:28:57,079 --> 00:28:59,444
and of the women in relief society. And

794
00:28:59,444 --> 00:29:01,524
she takes that very seriously. And that's a

795
00:29:01,524 --> 00:29:04,325
normal thing for organ women's organizations at that

796
00:29:04,325 --> 00:29:06,484
time. There are many in big cities in

797
00:29:06,484 --> 00:29:08,265
New York and Boston and Philadelphia,

798
00:29:08,724 --> 00:29:11,065
where women are really trying to clean up

799
00:29:11,460 --> 00:29:12,200
the communities,

800
00:29:12,819 --> 00:29:13,960
in a moral sense.

801
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:16,839
And I think Emma took that very seriously.

802
00:29:17,140 --> 00:29:18,900
In the Nauvoo Relief Society, you have to

803
00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:19,960
apply for membership.

804
00:29:20,500 --> 00:29:23,220
And part of that was because the Relief

805
00:29:23,220 --> 00:29:23,720
Society

806
00:29:24,255 --> 00:29:26,654
was a preparation for these women to actually

807
00:29:26,654 --> 00:29:28,515
receive their temple ordinances.

808
00:29:29,615 --> 00:29:31,535
And so they wanted to be careful about

809
00:29:31,535 --> 00:29:33,375
who they allowed in. They wanted to make

810
00:29:33,375 --> 00:29:35,295
sure that they were worthy, kind of like

811
00:29:35,295 --> 00:29:38,080
when we get our temple recommends. Yeah. That

812
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,160
they were worthy, that they would support Joseph

813
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,000
Smith. During this time, we also see a

814
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,259
lot of of tension, inner tension,

815
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:47,380
and outer tension. Inner within the church,

816
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,640
people who,

817
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:51,059
have some issues with his style of leadership

818
00:29:51,825 --> 00:29:55,184
and who claim more power and authority than

819
00:29:55,184 --> 00:29:55,924
they probably

820
00:29:56,704 --> 00:29:58,944
should have had. I keep thinking of section

821
00:29:58,944 --> 00:30:00,704
20 one twenty one in the Doctrine and

822
00:30:00,704 --> 00:30:03,904
Covenants. Yeah. And I think Emma really took

823
00:30:03,904 --> 00:30:04,644
that seriously.

824
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:06,519
I also think she did a lot of

825
00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:09,259
that expounding and exhorting with the hymn book,

826
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,420
where she chose hymns that would

827
00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:14,220
reflect Latter day Saint theology

828
00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:17,259
and doctrine, and that would unite the congregations.

829
00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:19,420
And I think that

830
00:30:19,865 --> 00:30:21,085
she had these little,

831
00:30:21,945 --> 00:30:22,845
sort of passages

832
00:30:23,224 --> 00:30:23,724
of

833
00:30:24,744 --> 00:30:27,384
of learning and of experience that led her

834
00:30:27,384 --> 00:30:30,125
to the Relief Society. She was then in

835
00:30:30,505 --> 00:30:32,424
September of eighteen forty three, the first woman

836
00:30:32,424 --> 00:30:33,565
to receive her endowment,

837
00:30:34,170 --> 00:30:36,809
And she then passed that on to other

838
00:30:36,809 --> 00:30:37,309
women.

839
00:30:37,610 --> 00:30:39,529
So not only was she's the president of

840
00:30:39,529 --> 00:30:41,210
the Relief Society, but she was sort of

841
00:30:41,210 --> 00:30:43,850
the matron. Yeah. They didn't have a completed

842
00:30:43,850 --> 00:30:46,190
temple then. But I think that's

843
00:30:46,545 --> 00:30:48,384
all in it's so interesting in how that

844
00:30:48,384 --> 00:30:50,545
ties together. And so with all these many

845
00:30:50,545 --> 00:30:51,045
responsibilities

846
00:30:51,505 --> 00:30:54,225
or invitations or was that all all in

847
00:30:54,225 --> 00:30:56,465
the context of being the president of relief

848
00:30:56,465 --> 00:30:58,710
the Relief Society, or was it sort of

849
00:30:59,029 --> 00:31:02,069
sometimes conflated with being the wife of Joseph

850
00:31:02,069 --> 00:31:03,909
Smith? I think it was both. Yeah. And

851
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:06,149
I think that's one thing. It's kind of

852
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:08,149
hard for us to understand because we've lived

853
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:08,649
years

854
00:31:09,109 --> 00:31:11,909
of structure and order, and this is the

855
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:13,835
order in which things happen, and you have

856
00:31:13,835 --> 00:31:14,795
to do this before you do this. There's

857
00:31:14,795 --> 00:31:17,215
handbooks and there's yeah. Right. And

858
00:31:17,755 --> 00:31:19,914
Joseph did not receive a handbook in the

859
00:31:19,914 --> 00:31:20,815
Sacred Grove.

860
00:31:21,275 --> 00:31:22,955
He had to figure it out. And I

861
00:31:22,955 --> 00:31:25,355
think the remarkable thing about Joseph and Emma

862
00:31:25,355 --> 00:31:27,400
was that she helped him figure it out.

863
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,000
Yeah. They were in it together. They were

864
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,840
in it together. Yeah. And we don't have

865
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,740
record of their pillow talk or their conversations

866
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,259
in private.

867
00:31:35,799 --> 00:31:38,474
Like, we have records of Joseph with his,

868
00:31:38,875 --> 00:31:40,714
scribes and with the quorum of the 12

869
00:31:40,714 --> 00:31:42,634
and the council of fifty and the high

870
00:31:42,634 --> 00:31:45,595
council and the city council and all the

871
00:31:45,595 --> 00:31:46,095
councils.

872
00:31:46,714 --> 00:31:48,974
But I think it's significant that Emma

873
00:31:49,275 --> 00:31:50,974
did influence him significantly

874
00:31:51,275 --> 00:31:51,775
in

875
00:31:52,154 --> 00:31:53,694
including women and

876
00:31:54,690 --> 00:31:55,089
and,

877
00:31:55,490 --> 00:31:58,369
making the church a place that was larger

878
00:31:58,369 --> 00:32:01,009
than what they had at the time. Yeah.

879
00:32:01,009 --> 00:32:02,529
And, you know, being the wife of a

880
00:32:02,529 --> 00:32:04,470
leader, it can sort of feel like this,

881
00:32:04,769 --> 00:32:07,345
diminished role or, you know, even just sort

882
00:32:07,345 --> 00:32:08,705
of this tradition we have that we don't

883
00:32:08,705 --> 00:32:09,904
really know what to call the wife of

884
00:32:09,904 --> 00:32:12,065
the mission president. It's always the mission president

885
00:32:12,065 --> 00:32:13,985
and wife or or some people just sort

886
00:32:13,985 --> 00:32:15,105
of say, oh, we've been asked to serve

887
00:32:15,105 --> 00:32:17,105
as mission president. Right. You know, what does

888
00:32:17,105 --> 00:32:19,045
that mean? Right. And so but

889
00:32:19,345 --> 00:32:21,630
being the wife, like, it just sort of

890
00:32:21,630 --> 00:32:23,490
doesn't seem as as powerful.

891
00:32:24,029 --> 00:32:25,549
But I always talk about the the white

892
00:32:25,630 --> 00:32:27,549
the bishop's wife as this is sort of

893
00:32:27,549 --> 00:32:28,930
this unofficial calling

894
00:32:29,230 --> 00:32:30,750
that you may not be set apart in,

895
00:32:30,750 --> 00:32:32,269
but, you know, you're in in this together,

896
00:32:32,269 --> 00:32:34,195
and there's some great leadership opportunities there. And

897
00:32:34,275 --> 00:32:36,115
but I realize it'd be nice to formalize

898
00:32:36,115 --> 00:32:38,115
on these things, but to sort of step

899
00:32:38,115 --> 00:32:40,115
into that authority. Right? Right. And I think

900
00:32:40,115 --> 00:32:42,295
it's interesting if we actually turn to

901
00:32:42,595 --> 00:32:44,775
doctrine and covenant section 25.

902
00:32:44,835 --> 00:32:46,375
I think there's some really interesting,

903
00:32:46,914 --> 00:32:49,980
words that the Lord uses to teach Emma

904
00:32:49,980 --> 00:32:51,900
about this about being the wife of the

905
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:54,240
prophet or the first lady of the prophet.

906
00:32:54,620 --> 00:32:55,840
He says to her,

907
00:32:56,299 --> 00:32:58,460
the office of thy calling shall be for

908
00:32:58,460 --> 00:33:00,940
a comfort unto my servant Joseph Smith, thy

909
00:33:00,940 --> 00:33:03,795
husband in his afflictions with consoling words in

910
00:33:03,795 --> 00:33:04,775
the spirit of meanness,

911
00:33:05,394 --> 00:33:06,055
which means

912
00:33:06,515 --> 00:33:08,755
she's supposed to support him. Right? But he

913
00:33:08,755 --> 00:33:11,075
doesn't use the word support. He uses the

914
00:33:11,075 --> 00:33:13,335
word comfort and he uses the word office,

915
00:33:13,795 --> 00:33:15,955
which I think means you are given this

916
00:33:15,955 --> 00:33:16,855
special assignment.

917
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,240
When I think of office, I think of

918
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,920
my office here in the church history library

919
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,200
that has my name on the door, and

920
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,619
I do something specific in that little room.

921
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,279
And I think it's significant that this idea

922
00:33:28,279 --> 00:33:29,019
of comfort

923
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,099
is not coming from underneath.

924
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:32,539
It's coming from

925
00:33:33,065 --> 00:33:33,565
over.

926
00:33:33,944 --> 00:33:36,585
And she's to cover him with comfort when

927
00:33:36,585 --> 00:33:38,585
he needs it. And she does that. She

928
00:33:38,585 --> 00:33:39,484
writes him letters

929
00:33:39,944 --> 00:33:41,944
to comfort him in his afflictions when he's

930
00:33:41,944 --> 00:33:45,325
in Liberty Jail, or almost anytime they're separated.

931
00:33:46,029 --> 00:33:47,569
Those letters are so beautiful.

932
00:33:48,029 --> 00:33:50,109
And I also think that it's significant that

933
00:33:50,109 --> 00:33:52,509
that word comfort, I think of in the

934
00:33:52,509 --> 00:33:53,250
New Testament,

935
00:33:53,789 --> 00:33:54,450
right before

936
00:33:54,829 --> 00:33:57,710
Christ goes to Gethsemane, he tells his disciples,

937
00:33:57,710 --> 00:33:59,710
I will not leave you comfortless, I will

938
00:33:59,710 --> 00:34:01,170
give you another comforter.

939
00:34:01,755 --> 00:34:04,474
And so in a way, Emma's role as

940
00:34:04,474 --> 00:34:05,855
the wife of the prophet

941
00:34:06,474 --> 00:34:06,974
was

942
00:34:07,355 --> 00:34:07,855
divine,

943
00:34:08,315 --> 00:34:09,534
and calling upon

944
00:34:09,835 --> 00:34:11,135
these divine roles.

945
00:34:11,514 --> 00:34:13,914
It also says that in verse six, thou

946
00:34:13,914 --> 00:34:15,514
shalt go with him at the time of

947
00:34:15,514 --> 00:34:17,510
his going and be into him for a

948
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:19,989
scribe. So she's to go with him. She

949
00:34:19,989 --> 00:34:21,750
is to leave her family. And we know

950
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:23,929
that from the Bible, you're supposed to leave

951
00:34:23,989 --> 00:34:26,469
your family and cleave into your husband and

952
00:34:26,469 --> 00:34:28,710
cleave together as a husband and wife. And

953
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:30,570
she does that once she leaves Harmony

954
00:34:30,905 --> 00:34:33,804
in 1831, she never sees her parents again.

955
00:34:34,425 --> 00:34:36,905
But she is dedicated and she does go

956
00:34:36,905 --> 00:34:37,804
with Joseph.

957
00:34:38,184 --> 00:34:40,105
But I also kind of wonder if when

958
00:34:40,105 --> 00:34:40,844
he dies

959
00:34:41,464 --> 00:34:43,864
and the saints are leaving Nauvoo, if we

960
00:34:43,864 --> 00:34:46,184
can sort of expand the definition of that

961
00:34:46,184 --> 00:34:48,880
phrase that she chooses to stay with him

962
00:34:49,039 --> 00:34:51,300
Mhmm. At the time of his staying.

963
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,039
Wow. That's powerful. And another thing that I

964
00:34:55,039 --> 00:34:56,660
love also is when

965
00:34:57,039 --> 00:34:58,960
verse nine, it says, thou needest not fear

966
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,280
for thy husband shall support thee in the

967
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,635
church, for unto them is his calling.

968
00:35:04,175 --> 00:35:06,175
And that makes sense. Right? For a bishop's

969
00:35:06,175 --> 00:35:08,094
wife, for a state president's wife, for a

970
00:35:08,094 --> 00:35:09,394
mission president's wife,

971
00:35:09,695 --> 00:35:12,335
for a temple president's wife, for a general

972
00:35:12,335 --> 00:35:12,835
authority's

973
00:35:13,135 --> 00:35:13,635
wife,

974
00:35:13,934 --> 00:35:15,295
is that they should

975
00:35:15,819 --> 00:35:18,299
these women should support their husbands in their

976
00:35:18,299 --> 00:35:20,299
callings. But I think if we, again, look

977
00:35:20,299 --> 00:35:22,079
at this in a slightly different way,

978
00:35:22,460 --> 00:35:25,440
your husband shall support you in the church.

979
00:35:25,980 --> 00:35:28,780
So she also has significant roles. Yeah. Right?

980
00:35:28,780 --> 00:35:30,639
She becomes the Relief Society president.

981
00:35:31,155 --> 00:35:31,815
She becomes

982
00:35:32,114 --> 00:35:34,035
the the head of the temple work for

983
00:35:34,035 --> 00:35:34,535
women.

984
00:35:34,914 --> 00:35:37,715
And he is supporting her the same way

985
00:35:37,715 --> 00:35:39,974
I would hope that all mission president

986
00:35:40,355 --> 00:35:41,574
leaders, whatever,

987
00:35:42,195 --> 00:35:44,914
support each other or temple president and matron

988
00:35:44,914 --> 00:35:47,570
support each other. Yeah. Now I'm just thinking,

989
00:35:47,570 --> 00:35:50,309
like, what a powerful section to read to,

990
00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:52,530
you know, a stake president could read to

991
00:35:52,530 --> 00:35:54,050
the the bishop and his wife as they're

992
00:35:54,050 --> 00:35:55,570
being called or Mhmm. These types of things.

993
00:35:55,570 --> 00:35:57,329
And I realized I wanna be sensitive. Maybe

994
00:35:57,329 --> 00:35:59,355
the women are listening thinking, So here we

995
00:35:59,355 --> 00:36:01,034
go. You're just telling me to support my

996
00:36:01,034 --> 00:36:03,295
husband and, you know, help him along. But

997
00:36:03,755 --> 00:36:05,355
I think it's just helpful. You know, it

998
00:36:05,355 --> 00:36:07,394
is it is messy because of the the

999
00:36:07,394 --> 00:36:09,675
the patriarchal nature of the priesthood and the

1000
00:36:09,755 --> 00:36:11,914
these offices that have been restored and the

1001
00:36:11,914 --> 00:36:12,815
keys and whatnot.

1002
00:36:13,530 --> 00:36:15,610
And putting them up against the backdrop of

1003
00:36:15,610 --> 00:36:17,449
modern times. It sort of does seem like,

1004
00:36:17,690 --> 00:36:19,289
you're asking me to squint and tilt my

1005
00:36:19,289 --> 00:36:20,809
head a little. Yeah. Doesn't it look great

1006
00:36:20,809 --> 00:36:23,130
now? But there is some some power when

1007
00:36:23,130 --> 00:36:24,969
we step into these roles of saying, oh,

1008
00:36:24,969 --> 00:36:26,855
I'm not just supposed to take care of

1009
00:36:26,855 --> 00:36:29,014
the kids and make sure dinner's warm on

1010
00:36:29,014 --> 00:36:31,174
the table, but there's maybe a deeper role

1011
00:36:31,174 --> 00:36:32,934
as I step in and and seek for

1012
00:36:32,934 --> 00:36:35,174
guidance in in some of these, callings that

1013
00:36:35,174 --> 00:36:37,974
come to a spouse. Absolutely. And I think

1014
00:36:37,974 --> 00:36:39,989
that, I mean, we could look at that

1015
00:36:39,989 --> 00:36:42,230
too as the husband of a relief society

1016
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:44,390
president Yeah. Or of a young women's president,

1017
00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:45,910
especially when she has to go to girls

1018
00:36:45,910 --> 00:36:46,809
camp. Right?

1019
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:48,329
But I think that

1020
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:51,510
it also depends on you and how much

1021
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:53,769
you want to put into that support

1022
00:36:54,224 --> 00:36:55,684
or comforting role,

1023
00:36:56,224 --> 00:36:59,025
and how much you feel like you can

1024
00:36:59,025 --> 00:37:01,285
because you can in many ways influence

1025
00:37:01,905 --> 00:37:02,485
a congregation,

1026
00:37:03,425 --> 00:37:03,925
or

1027
00:37:04,224 --> 00:37:06,144
I don't know, young women, you know, as

1028
00:37:06,144 --> 00:37:06,885
a support.

1029
00:37:07,569 --> 00:37:09,329
There's so many things you can do if

1030
00:37:09,329 --> 00:37:11,650
you seek for it and choose to define

1031
00:37:11,650 --> 00:37:13,650
it for how it would work for you.

1032
00:37:13,650 --> 00:37:16,049
Yeah. Love that. So around this concept of

1033
00:37:16,049 --> 00:37:19,409
authority, anything else, any other history to to

1034
00:37:19,409 --> 00:37:21,355
consider when it comes to this, you know,

1035
00:37:21,355 --> 00:37:23,535
what authority that women have?

1036
00:37:23,914 --> 00:37:25,375
So I think it's really significant,

1037
00:37:25,835 --> 00:37:26,575
this idea.

1038
00:37:27,035 --> 00:37:28,875
Joseph said that he was going to organize

1039
00:37:28,875 --> 00:37:31,195
the Relief Society after the pattern of the

1040
00:37:31,195 --> 00:37:33,535
priesthood and after the order of the priesthood.

1041
00:37:34,190 --> 00:37:36,990
Meaning, some have said that that would include

1042
00:37:36,990 --> 00:37:38,369
a president and counselors

1043
00:37:38,670 --> 00:37:40,130
and any other assistance

1044
00:37:40,670 --> 00:37:41,170
needed.

1045
00:37:41,470 --> 00:37:43,390
He also said, and this is interesting too,

1046
00:37:43,390 --> 00:37:45,329
that if you need to add any other

1047
00:37:45,789 --> 00:37:49,150
leadership roles in your organization, please do, like

1048
00:37:49,150 --> 00:37:49,650
deacons

1049
00:37:50,005 --> 00:37:50,824
or teachers.

1050
00:37:51,204 --> 00:37:54,324
Oh, wow. I know. So we we don't

1051
00:37:54,324 --> 00:37:56,324
think about it like that and in those

1052
00:37:56,324 --> 00:37:58,965
terms today. But Sarah Kimball in Salt Lake

1053
00:37:58,965 --> 00:38:01,605
City, she was the president of the fifteenth

1054
00:38:01,605 --> 00:38:04,340
Ward Relief Society. And she actually create she

1055
00:38:04,340 --> 00:38:06,980
and Eliza Arsenault together created a list of

1056
00:38:06,980 --> 00:38:07,480
responsibilities.

1057
00:38:08,180 --> 00:38:09,480
And they had deaconesses

1058
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:12,980
who would come and women in their Relief

1059
00:38:12,980 --> 00:38:15,539
Society who were assigned to come and prepare

1060
00:38:15,539 --> 00:38:17,744
the room for Relief Society. If it was

1061
00:38:17,744 --> 00:38:19,744
cold, they would build a fire. They would

1062
00:38:19,744 --> 00:38:21,744
bring water, they would, you know, clean and

1063
00:38:21,744 --> 00:38:22,885
sweep and whatever.

1064
00:38:23,264 --> 00:38:25,045
She had teachers, which were

1065
00:38:25,344 --> 00:38:26,324
visiting teachers

1066
00:38:26,864 --> 00:38:27,605
who would

1067
00:38:28,065 --> 00:38:30,784
minister and visit all the sisters in their

1068
00:38:30,784 --> 00:38:32,244
blocks and in their wards.

1069
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,440
And then I don't I can't remember how

1070
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:35,420
she used priestesses,

1071
00:38:36,119 --> 00:38:39,000
but we always associate priests with the temple.

1072
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,239
Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's really cool.

1073
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,159
Yeah. And I I also think that teaches

1074
00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:44,140
us that we too

1075
00:38:44,534 --> 00:38:46,315
can expand our definitions

1076
00:38:46,614 --> 00:38:47,755
of what we need

1077
00:38:48,054 --> 00:38:51,434
and always within the alignment of the handbook.

1078
00:38:51,894 --> 00:38:54,534
But at times I've had three counselors because

1079
00:38:54,534 --> 00:38:55,755
I needed that help

1080
00:38:56,135 --> 00:38:58,454
or I've had an assistant secretary because I've

1081
00:38:58,454 --> 00:38:59,514
needed that help.

1082
00:38:59,869 --> 00:39:01,949
But I think it's significant to be able

1083
00:39:01,949 --> 00:39:03,789
to to think outside the box and not

1084
00:39:03,789 --> 00:39:05,630
just do things the way they've always been

1085
00:39:05,630 --> 00:39:07,469
done. Yeah. And of course, you have to

1086
00:39:07,469 --> 00:39:09,730
do that with the approbation of your bishop.

1087
00:39:09,789 --> 00:39:11,710
Sure. Sure. But I'd love just the principle

1088
00:39:11,710 --> 00:39:14,269
there is this principle of empowerment that, you

1089
00:39:14,269 --> 00:39:16,054
know, I'm going, let's make sure you have

1090
00:39:16,054 --> 00:39:17,574
a clear purpose of how you can help

1091
00:39:17,574 --> 00:39:19,014
build the kingdom in this this part of

1092
00:39:19,014 --> 00:39:20,934
the vineyard. Right? And Mhmm. And that's, that's

1093
00:39:20,934 --> 00:39:21,434
strong.

1094
00:39:21,734 --> 00:39:23,255
Let's see. Where do you want it as

1095
00:39:23,255 --> 00:39:24,775
far as, you know, going back to that

1096
00:39:24,775 --> 00:39:26,554
sister's email, as far as, like,

1097
00:39:27,094 --> 00:39:29,494
speaking up when, you know, having your your

1098
00:39:29,494 --> 00:39:32,320
voice be heard, That's maybe an area that

1099
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,400
a lot of women try and they struggle

1100
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,559
finding that stage where they can feel comfortable

1101
00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:38,320
speaking up. Yeah. And I think that was

1102
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:38,820
especially

1103
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,460
the case in nineteenth century

1104
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,300
America. It wasn't

1105
00:39:43,724 --> 00:39:45,985
normal for women to speak publicly.

1106
00:39:46,285 --> 00:39:47,825
And if they were speaking publicly,

1107
00:39:48,525 --> 00:39:50,925
they were, you know, they had significant roles,

1108
00:39:50,925 --> 00:39:53,085
like, I don't know, Susan B. Anthony, or

1109
00:39:53,085 --> 00:39:55,325
if you even go earlier, like way, way

1110
00:39:55,325 --> 00:39:56,945
back to Anne Hutchinson,

1111
00:39:57,619 --> 00:39:58,440
in the Massachusetts

1112
00:39:58,739 --> 00:40:01,719
colony who felt called to teach and speak,

1113
00:40:01,860 --> 00:40:03,539
but then she was thrown out of the

1114
00:40:03,539 --> 00:40:04,039
colony.

1115
00:40:04,420 --> 00:40:05,239
She was banished.

1116
00:40:05,619 --> 00:40:08,420
So for speaking. Uh-huh. Oh, wow. Yeah, for

1117
00:40:08,420 --> 00:40:10,500
gathering people in her home. And she drew

1118
00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:12,900
upon scriptures in the New Testament to justify

1119
00:40:12,900 --> 00:40:15,585
that. But I think, I think sometimes we're

1120
00:40:15,585 --> 00:40:16,324
not accustomed

1121
00:40:16,864 --> 00:40:17,364
to

1122
00:40:17,744 --> 00:40:19,985
speaking from the stand or from a position

1123
00:40:19,985 --> 00:40:22,065
of leadership. And we see this quite a

1124
00:40:22,065 --> 00:40:25,265
bit in the Relief Society. Brigham Young, when

1125
00:40:25,265 --> 00:40:27,985
he reorganized the Relief Society in Utah in

1126
00:40:27,985 --> 00:40:29,364
1868,

1127
00:40:29,639 --> 00:40:31,880
he asks Eliza R. Snow, who is a

1128
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,099
very capable woman.

1129
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,900
She'd been secretary of the Nauvoo Relief Society,

1130
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,099
and she had

1131
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,059
kept the Nauvoo Relief Society minute book

1132
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,654
and knew had studied it and knew what

1133
00:40:42,654 --> 00:40:44,574
Joseph had taught and how the Relief Society

1134
00:40:44,574 --> 00:40:45,315
was instituted,

1135
00:40:46,014 --> 00:40:48,275
he asked her, first of all, to

1136
00:40:48,574 --> 00:40:51,315
assist bishops in organizing Relief Societies.

1137
00:40:51,775 --> 00:40:53,875
And in some ways, I think that's awesome,

1138
00:40:54,329 --> 00:40:56,969
because they probably would some of them had

1139
00:40:56,969 --> 00:40:58,890
hadn't been in Nauvoo and had no idea.

1140
00:40:58,890 --> 00:41:01,289
And they're like, please help. In other ways,

1141
00:41:01,289 --> 00:41:02,809
I wonder if they felt a little bit

1142
00:41:02,809 --> 00:41:05,210
threatened by a woman coming to them and

1143
00:41:05,210 --> 00:41:06,809
saying, okay, this is what we need to

1144
00:41:06,809 --> 00:41:08,010
do. And this is how we need to

1145
00:41:08,010 --> 00:41:09,925
do it. And I sort of think it's

1146
00:41:09,925 --> 00:41:10,824
the same today.

1147
00:41:11,684 --> 00:41:13,944
But then Brigham Young also asked Eliza,

1148
00:41:14,244 --> 00:41:16,664
I would like you to instruct the sisters.

1149
00:41:17,204 --> 00:41:20,085
Now, Eliza doesn't speak much, if at all,

1150
00:41:20,085 --> 00:41:21,704
in the Navajo Relief Society.

1151
00:41:22,190 --> 00:41:24,610
At least she doesn't record herself speaking,

1152
00:41:24,910 --> 00:41:27,630
except for one really incredible meeting that I

1153
00:41:27,630 --> 00:41:31,010
love, 04/19/1842.

1154
00:41:31,150 --> 00:41:32,989
But when Brigham Young asked her and gave

1155
00:41:32,989 --> 00:41:35,809
her this specific assignment to instruct the sisters

1156
00:41:36,065 --> 00:41:39,025
In her life sketch, she writes, my heart

1157
00:41:39,025 --> 00:41:40,485
went pit a pat.

1158
00:41:41,265 --> 00:41:42,565
Like she was scared.

1159
00:41:43,184 --> 00:41:45,125
And especially in some of the early

1160
00:41:45,585 --> 00:41:48,320
meetings that she attended, she would say, for

1161
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,159
several years, she would say, I'm not accustomed

1162
00:41:50,159 --> 00:41:53,119
to speaking publicly or to leading out. But

1163
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:54,400
I know that this is what the Lord

1164
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,480
wants me to do. And I also know

1165
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,639
that if we pray, the Spirit will guide

1166
00:41:58,639 --> 00:42:01,684
us and guide me to say something important,

1167
00:42:01,744 --> 00:42:03,925
and that will guide you to hear something,

1168
00:42:04,065 --> 00:42:05,125
what you need to hear.

1169
00:42:05,585 --> 00:42:06,945
The other thing that I love about her

1170
00:42:06,945 --> 00:42:09,105
is she learned how to do this, but

1171
00:42:09,105 --> 00:42:11,105
she also taught other women how to do

1172
00:42:11,105 --> 00:42:13,985
this. She wasn't the only one. Mary Isabella

1173
00:42:13,985 --> 00:42:15,285
Horn is another example.

1174
00:42:15,869 --> 00:42:17,650
She was a Relief Society president

1175
00:42:17,949 --> 00:42:18,449
in

1176
00:42:18,750 --> 00:42:19,889
the Fourteenth Ward,

1177
00:42:20,349 --> 00:42:23,549
and she was so nervous, the record says,

1178
00:42:23,549 --> 00:42:25,630
when she was first called to get up

1179
00:42:25,630 --> 00:42:27,409
and preside over a meeting,

1180
00:42:27,755 --> 00:42:29,515
that she literally had to have her two

1181
00:42:29,515 --> 00:42:32,315
counselors come and hold her up so she

1182
00:42:32,315 --> 00:42:34,015
didn't fall down. Wow.

1183
00:42:34,715 --> 00:42:36,795
So I think that's significant. But the more

1184
00:42:36,795 --> 00:42:39,195
practice that she had, the better that she

1185
00:42:39,195 --> 00:42:41,035
became and the more fluid she became at

1186
00:42:41,035 --> 00:42:43,880
speaking. In fact, later, she would travel around

1187
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,339
Utah territory with

1188
00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:46,779
Eliza R. Snow,

1189
00:42:47,079 --> 00:42:49,900
and she also would encourage women to speak.

1190
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,420
So there's something empowering

1191
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,299
that we can learn from this, something in

1192
00:42:54,359 --> 00:42:55,260
giving voice

1193
00:42:55,905 --> 00:42:57,125
to the marginalized

1194
00:42:57,585 --> 00:42:59,125
or the quiet

1195
00:42:59,744 --> 00:43:00,644
or the

1196
00:43:01,025 --> 00:43:01,684
the unspeaking

1197
00:43:02,065 --> 00:43:02,565
people

1198
00:43:02,864 --> 00:43:04,804
is to give them a voice. It's incredible.

1199
00:43:05,425 --> 00:43:06,244
And to,

1200
00:43:06,704 --> 00:43:08,405
to hear what they have to say.

1201
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,920
Yeah. And help me with my history. Liza

1202
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,320
Snow, she wasn't right after Emma. She was

1203
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,000
when they're the Saints were in Utah. But

1204
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,840
this time was when she was released as

1205
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,159
president. So Brigham Young shut down the Relief

1206
00:43:19,159 --> 00:43:21,659
Society in Nauvoo in 1845.

1207
00:43:21,914 --> 00:43:23,675
But I think the women had learned so

1208
00:43:23,675 --> 00:43:24,414
many different

1209
00:43:24,715 --> 00:43:25,775
important principles

1210
00:43:26,155 --> 00:43:28,474
from the relief society that all through like

1211
00:43:28,474 --> 00:43:30,335
winter quarters and crossing the plains,

1212
00:43:30,715 --> 00:43:32,795
they would continue to meet, not in the

1213
00:43:32,795 --> 00:43:35,429
name of relief society, but they would serve

1214
00:43:35,429 --> 00:43:37,849
each other and bless each other and

1215
00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:41,590
have very powerful spiritual experiences together and care

1216
00:43:41,590 --> 00:43:44,170
for one another in a really treacherous time.

1217
00:43:44,230 --> 00:43:45,769
Yeah. So, yeah,

1218
00:43:46,070 --> 00:43:48,170
Eliza's became the de facto

1219
00:43:48,795 --> 00:43:51,914
general relief society president. But here's another interesting

1220
00:43:51,914 --> 00:43:53,214
thing was that they didn't

1221
00:43:53,594 --> 00:43:56,474
call her to be the general relief society

1222
00:43:56,474 --> 00:43:56,974
president,

1223
00:43:57,514 --> 00:43:58,494
partly because

1224
00:43:58,954 --> 00:44:01,034
they were still trying to figure out how

1225
00:44:01,034 --> 00:44:03,295
all of this, these layers of organization

1226
00:44:03,594 --> 00:44:06,449
would work. The first Stake Relief Society president

1227
00:44:06,449 --> 00:44:08,630
was called in 1877,

1228
00:44:08,849 --> 00:44:10,690
right before Brigham Young died. And that was

1229
00:44:10,690 --> 00:44:12,550
in Weber County in Ogden,

1230
00:44:13,090 --> 00:44:14,789
and it was Jane Snyder Richards.

1231
00:44:15,329 --> 00:44:16,869
And then in 1880,

1232
00:44:17,295 --> 00:44:20,175
John Taylor met with the Salt Lake Stake

1233
00:44:20,175 --> 00:44:22,894
women, and they decided to form what they

1234
00:44:22,894 --> 00:44:25,214
called then a central board, both for the

1235
00:44:25,214 --> 00:44:27,295
relief society and for the primary and the

1236
00:44:27,295 --> 00:44:28,034
young women.

1237
00:44:28,414 --> 00:44:32,410
And Eliza was, of course, selected as the

1238
00:44:32,410 --> 00:44:34,910
president of the Relief Society. But it's interesting

1239
00:44:34,969 --> 00:44:38,170
because several times before that people considered her

1240
00:44:38,170 --> 00:44:40,650
that, but it wasn't made official until John

1241
00:44:40,650 --> 00:44:41,150
Taylor

1242
00:44:41,690 --> 00:44:44,344
called for that. And it also is interesting

1243
00:44:44,344 --> 00:44:46,505
because it wasn't until after the death of

1244
00:44:46,505 --> 00:44:48,505
Emma Smith in 1879.

1245
00:44:48,505 --> 00:44:51,224
Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. And so was should

1246
00:44:51,224 --> 00:44:53,224
be considered the second release of the first?

1247
00:44:53,224 --> 00:44:54,824
Okay. But there was a gap there of

1248
00:44:54,824 --> 00:44:57,469
some Yeah. Maybe a hiatus of of Right.

1249
00:44:57,550 --> 00:44:58,050
Society.

1250
00:44:58,429 --> 00:45:01,150
Yeah. Interesting. So in this concept of speaking

1251
00:45:01,150 --> 00:45:02,829
up and, you know, seeing these records, it's

1252
00:45:03,389 --> 00:45:05,650
would you say that, like, as the church

1253
00:45:05,789 --> 00:45:08,210
through these early years of the restoration, like,

1254
00:45:08,394 --> 00:45:08,894
was

1255
00:45:09,355 --> 00:45:10,894
the were Latter day Saints

1256
00:45:11,195 --> 00:45:14,015
quite progressive as far as giving women opportunity

1257
00:45:14,155 --> 00:45:15,835
to speak? Is that safe to say? Yeah.

1258
00:45:15,835 --> 00:45:18,155
I think so. I think it's interesting. During

1259
00:45:18,155 --> 00:45:19,454
the second great awakening,

1260
00:45:19,835 --> 00:45:21,535
at the time the church was organized,

1261
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,500
you get this whole new idea of evangelical

1262
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,539
practice of religion, meaning you

1263
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,320
stand up and utter your beliefs and your

1264
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,800
convictions and your conversion and being called upon

1265
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:33,940
by the Holy Spirit.

1266
00:45:34,445 --> 00:45:37,085
And so in that sense, it became sort

1267
00:45:37,085 --> 00:45:40,465
of a popular thing and something that happened.

1268
00:45:40,605 --> 00:45:41,664
But then as

1269
00:45:42,045 --> 00:45:44,525
new groups and new churches were formed, they

1270
00:45:44,525 --> 00:45:48,125
became more tightly controlled, and the men took

1271
00:45:48,125 --> 00:45:49,505
over most of the leadership.

1272
00:45:50,219 --> 00:45:52,000
So while we have

1273
00:45:52,300 --> 00:45:55,739
significant female leaders in other religions, I'm thinking

1274
00:45:55,739 --> 00:45:57,599
of Anne Lee with the Shakers

1275
00:45:58,219 --> 00:45:58,719
or

1276
00:45:59,019 --> 00:46:00,239
women in the Quakers

1277
00:46:00,859 --> 00:46:02,000
and in other places,

1278
00:46:02,405 --> 00:46:03,224
It is significant

1279
00:46:03,525 --> 00:46:06,964
that the Nauvoo Relief Society and subsequent Relief

1280
00:46:06,964 --> 00:46:07,464
Societies

1281
00:46:07,764 --> 00:46:09,784
were given this specific religious,

1282
00:46:10,244 --> 00:46:11,304
female authority

1283
00:46:11,605 --> 00:46:13,144
to lead and to speak

1284
00:46:13,605 --> 00:46:14,585
and to teach.

1285
00:46:15,170 --> 00:46:17,829
And I remember, I love this story where

1286
00:46:18,289 --> 00:46:20,530
Eliza, excuse me, is at a young women's

1287
00:46:20,530 --> 00:46:22,210
meeting and she calls upon one of Brigham

1288
00:46:22,210 --> 00:46:23,590
Young's daughters to speak.

1289
00:46:24,050 --> 00:46:26,789
And her daughter was, the daughter was like,

1290
00:46:28,130 --> 00:46:30,230
no, I'm too scared. Right?

1291
00:46:30,744 --> 00:46:33,625
And Eliza said, well, never mind. But next

1292
00:46:33,625 --> 00:46:35,085
time have something to say.

1293
00:46:36,025 --> 00:46:38,425
Next time. And so she just encouraged women

1294
00:46:38,425 --> 00:46:40,425
to have a scripture in mind. I mean,

1295
00:46:40,425 --> 00:46:41,784
she said at the very least you could

1296
00:46:41,784 --> 00:46:43,869
get up and read a scripture. Yeah.

1297
00:46:45,130 --> 00:46:46,269
So she was really

1298
00:46:46,570 --> 00:46:47,949
adamant about women

1299
00:46:48,410 --> 00:46:49,469
becoming comfortable

1300
00:46:50,250 --> 00:46:52,809
in speaking and exhorting and sharing and in

1301
00:46:52,809 --> 00:46:55,050
teaching each other. Yeah. So how can some

1302
00:46:55,050 --> 00:46:56,670
of these stories help inspire

1303
00:46:57,255 --> 00:46:59,654
women today to to speak up or to

1304
00:46:59,654 --> 00:47:00,635
have that confidence?

1305
00:47:01,094 --> 00:47:03,255
That's a great question. I love what president

1306
00:47:03,255 --> 00:47:04,315
Nelson said

1307
00:47:04,614 --> 00:47:06,375
that in his talk, A Plea to My

1308
00:47:06,375 --> 00:47:08,534
Sisters, he said, we need you to speak

1309
00:47:08,534 --> 00:47:10,074
up and speak out.

1310
00:47:10,519 --> 00:47:13,159
And so he, here's a prophetic call for

1311
00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:15,880
us as women. President Kimball did that even

1312
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,400
in, in 1979

1313
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,159
when he asked for women to be sister

1314
00:47:19,159 --> 00:47:19,659
scriptorians.

1315
00:47:20,519 --> 00:47:22,460
And so I think part of that is

1316
00:47:23,074 --> 00:47:25,875
engaging in the scriptures and in general conference

1317
00:47:25,875 --> 00:47:27,894
talks and being able to and comfortable

1318
00:47:28,514 --> 00:47:29,654
in making comments.

1319
00:47:29,954 --> 00:47:32,755
Now I am currently teaching gospel doctrine in

1320
00:47:32,755 --> 00:47:33,414
my ward.

1321
00:47:33,795 --> 00:47:36,359
And it's been crazy with Zoom and now

1322
00:47:36,359 --> 00:47:37,890
we're in person and I teach in the

1323
00:47:37,890 --> 00:47:40,050
chapel so we can spread out a little

1324
00:47:40,050 --> 00:47:42,070
more, but it's still hard to

1325
00:47:42,369 --> 00:47:44,550
be able to call on people that

1326
00:47:44,929 --> 00:47:46,230
don't always speak. You always have the ones

1327
00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:46,262
that do and that are comfortable and have

1328
00:47:46,262 --> 00:47:46,449
lots of great things to say. Yeah. You

1329
00:47:46,449 --> 00:47:48,224
always have the ones that do and that

1330
00:47:48,224 --> 00:47:50,224
are comfortable and have lots of great things

1331
00:47:50,224 --> 00:47:51,664
to say. We give them a limit and

1332
00:47:51,664 --> 00:47:54,565
say one more comment. Yep. Yep. That's right.

1333
00:47:54,944 --> 00:47:57,824
But it's also very powerful to be able

1334
00:47:57,824 --> 00:47:58,324
to

1335
00:47:58,784 --> 00:48:01,389
call on people that haven't spoken, and they

1336
00:48:01,389 --> 00:48:03,630
often have very powerful things to say. And

1337
00:48:03,630 --> 00:48:05,250
so I don't think we should be

1338
00:48:05,550 --> 00:48:06,769
afraid to do that.

1339
00:48:07,070 --> 00:48:09,409
And that can happen in many different forms.

1340
00:48:09,469 --> 00:48:11,789
There have been times when I texted someone

1341
00:48:11,789 --> 00:48:12,289
before

1342
00:48:12,945 --> 00:48:15,265
Sunday and said, hey, can you tell a

1343
00:48:15,265 --> 00:48:18,065
story about this? Or can you comment on

1344
00:48:18,065 --> 00:48:19,285
this quote or

1345
00:48:19,825 --> 00:48:20,325
whatever?

1346
00:48:20,785 --> 00:48:23,025
And I try to find people that don't

1347
00:48:23,025 --> 00:48:25,105
speak up very often. And for the most

1348
00:48:25,105 --> 00:48:26,325
part, they're delighted

1349
00:48:26,690 --> 00:48:28,369
to be invited to think about something and

1350
00:48:28,369 --> 00:48:30,530
to speak about something. But I just think

1351
00:48:30,530 --> 00:48:32,390
there's something powerful about

1352
00:48:32,769 --> 00:48:35,489
coming together and not having a lecture, but

1353
00:48:35,489 --> 00:48:37,970
having a true discussion. Yeah. Because sometimes when

1354
00:48:37,970 --> 00:48:40,050
we talk about speaking up and being heard,

1355
00:48:40,050 --> 00:48:42,050
you know, or having women speak up and

1356
00:48:42,050 --> 00:48:44,505
be heard, it's often we default to the

1357
00:48:44,505 --> 00:48:46,425
context of word council and making sure, okay,

1358
00:48:46,425 --> 00:48:48,425
let's make sure we've heard enough from the

1359
00:48:48,425 --> 00:48:49,784
sisters in the room. But a lot of

1360
00:48:49,784 --> 00:48:51,545
this is just this building sort of this

1361
00:48:51,545 --> 00:48:53,164
culture of speaking up where

1362
00:48:53,704 --> 00:48:55,704
women to women, they're saying, hey, why don't

1363
00:48:55,704 --> 00:48:57,809
you share this comment as I'm teaching and

1364
00:48:57,809 --> 00:49:00,230
let's get let's hear your voice more. Or

1365
00:49:00,289 --> 00:49:01,109
it may be

1366
00:49:01,809 --> 00:49:03,809
the empowering women to set an appointment with

1367
00:49:03,809 --> 00:49:05,250
a bishop and sit him down and say,

1368
00:49:05,250 --> 00:49:06,929
hey. I've got three things that I'm I

1369
00:49:06,929 --> 00:49:08,529
don't really like how this is going, and

1370
00:49:08,529 --> 00:49:10,449
I wanna I wanna be heard and go

1371
00:49:10,449 --> 00:49:12,105
through this. Right? So So I have a

1372
00:49:12,105 --> 00:49:14,025
couple of comments about that. I when I

1373
00:49:14,025 --> 00:49:16,184
used to meet with my bishop in Northern

1374
00:49:16,184 --> 00:49:16,684
Virginia

1375
00:49:17,465 --> 00:49:18,684
every month

1376
00:49:19,065 --> 00:49:20,824
before word council, and it was in the

1377
00:49:20,824 --> 00:49:21,324
evening.

1378
00:49:21,625 --> 00:49:23,224
And we had one in the evening and

1379
00:49:23,224 --> 00:49:25,405
then one on a Sunday morning before church.

1380
00:49:25,625 --> 00:49:27,920
But I would make an agenda when I

1381
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:29,440
went in to talk to him and he

1382
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:30,880
would get so used to this that he'd

1383
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,820
be like, okay, what's on the agenda today?

1384
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,300
But I felt the need to prepare myself

1385
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,400
and to have that, because it was limited

1386
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:39,539
time that I had

1387
00:49:39,885 --> 00:49:42,545
to express to him some concerns or questions

1388
00:49:42,684 --> 00:49:43,585
or hopes

1389
00:49:44,045 --> 00:49:46,224
or whatever it may be thoughts

1390
00:49:46,684 --> 00:49:47,985
about the Relief Society.

1391
00:49:48,445 --> 00:49:50,284
I also think our church has gone through

1392
00:49:50,284 --> 00:49:51,184
a really interesting

1393
00:49:51,724 --> 00:49:52,224
trajectory,

1394
00:49:52,684 --> 00:49:54,680
I guess you could say. So in the

1395
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,140
beginning, the relief societies, especially Nauvoo, was very

1396
00:49:58,440 --> 00:49:59,660
discussion oriented.

1397
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,380
And so it's not like you have

1398
00:50:03,079 --> 00:50:06,280
discourses given in relief society, right? It's someone

1399
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,220
says this, and then someone replies.

1400
00:50:08,585 --> 00:50:10,204
And then I think we went to

1401
00:50:10,505 --> 00:50:13,244
we went through a period, a long period,

1402
00:50:13,464 --> 00:50:15,224
where it was more of a lecture. And

1403
00:50:15,224 --> 00:50:15,964
we had,

1404
00:50:16,344 --> 00:50:18,364
back in the day, this was before I

1405
00:50:18,424 --> 00:50:19,404
really remember

1406
00:50:19,704 --> 00:50:21,164
engaging in relief society,

1407
00:50:21,530 --> 00:50:24,190
where they would have a literature lesson or

1408
00:50:25,130 --> 00:50:28,589
a manners lesson or a home domestic lesson.

1409
00:50:29,050 --> 00:50:30,989
And it was it was a a lecture.

1410
00:50:31,369 --> 00:50:32,989
And now that we have

1411
00:50:33,369 --> 00:50:36,170
started using come follow me and teachings of

1412
00:50:36,170 --> 00:50:36,829
the prophets

1413
00:50:37,375 --> 00:50:38,434
from general conference.

1414
00:50:39,055 --> 00:50:40,974
It just works so much better when you

1415
00:50:40,974 --> 00:50:44,114
can return to that discussion mode and involve

1416
00:50:44,335 --> 00:50:46,015
so many people. And I've heard so many

1417
00:50:46,015 --> 00:50:48,755
people on your podcast talk about doing that.

1418
00:50:49,375 --> 00:50:50,994
Last week in my relief society,

1419
00:50:51,579 --> 00:50:54,719
it was about it was Elder Renlund's talk

1420
00:50:54,859 --> 00:50:56,960
about our God is a God of miracles.

1421
00:50:57,739 --> 00:50:59,760
And it was one of the most powerful

1422
00:51:00,059 --> 00:51:02,159
Relief Societies I've ever been in.

1423
00:51:02,539 --> 00:51:05,264
And I think it was because the teacher,

1424
00:51:05,264 --> 00:51:07,105
and sometimes I think they call them discussion

1425
00:51:07,105 --> 00:51:08,244
leaders now even,

1426
00:51:09,184 --> 00:51:10,164
asked for experiences

1427
00:51:10,545 --> 00:51:12,164
and women shared experiences

1428
00:51:12,625 --> 00:51:14,864
of miracles. She had even asked someone to

1429
00:51:14,864 --> 00:51:16,085
come in from the primary

1430
00:51:16,625 --> 00:51:18,929
or a primary teacher who didn't get to

1431
00:51:18,929 --> 00:51:20,469
come to Relief Society often.

1432
00:51:20,769 --> 00:51:23,109
And she told us the most tender, beautiful

1433
00:51:23,170 --> 00:51:23,670
experience

1434
00:51:23,969 --> 00:51:26,070
and miracle at the death of her husband.

1435
00:51:26,609 --> 00:51:28,929
And it was so beautiful and everyone in

1436
00:51:28,929 --> 00:51:31,434
there felt that. So and then another thing

1437
00:51:31,434 --> 00:51:33,034
as a teacher, I feel like it's so

1438
00:51:33,034 --> 00:51:33,534
important

1439
00:51:34,635 --> 00:51:37,194
to acknowledge that. And so a lot of

1440
00:51:37,194 --> 00:51:38,734
times when I'm teaching,

1441
00:51:39,034 --> 00:51:40,474
a couple of weeks ago, I taught about

1442
00:51:40,474 --> 00:51:41,855
this ministry of reconciliation

1443
00:51:42,155 --> 00:51:43,994
that we find in Doctrine and Covenants about

1444
00:51:43,994 --> 00:51:45,375
forgiveness and repentance.

1445
00:51:45,890 --> 00:51:47,989
And I asked for stories, experiences,

1446
00:51:48,369 --> 00:51:50,610
and this 90 year old man told this

1447
00:51:50,610 --> 00:51:51,110
story.

1448
00:51:51,730 --> 00:51:54,449
His wife was Dutch and was the daughter

1449
00:51:54,449 --> 00:51:56,710
of a man after World War Two,

1450
00:51:57,170 --> 00:51:58,630
who had to

1451
00:51:59,164 --> 00:52:00,625
was asked to send potatoes

1452
00:52:01,405 --> 00:52:03,824
to their former enemies in Germany

1453
00:52:04,204 --> 00:52:07,184
and this incredible experience of coming to that.

1454
00:52:07,244 --> 00:52:10,045
And the spirit was so strong in that

1455
00:52:10,045 --> 00:52:12,525
huge chapel. And I just said, do you

1456
00:52:12,525 --> 00:52:13,905
guys feel that?

1457
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:15,619
That is the spirit.

1458
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,960
And it's not just me bringing the spirit.

1459
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,119
It's the people Yeah. In the class that

1460
00:52:21,119 --> 00:52:23,280
are bringing the spirit, and it's incredible to

1461
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,440
acknowledge that. Yeah. And that goes for for

1462
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,280
leadership as well. It's not just the the

1463
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,684
leader that's that, you know, the bishops is

1464
00:52:29,684 --> 00:52:31,525
bringing the leadership. I mean, he holds the

1465
00:52:31,525 --> 00:52:33,144
keys, but those keys

1466
00:52:33,525 --> 00:52:35,605
are are you know, we have access to

1467
00:52:35,605 --> 00:52:37,445
those keys, and we can all bring leadership

1468
00:52:37,445 --> 00:52:38,184
to the table

1469
00:52:38,644 --> 00:52:40,664
and voices and things and and authority.

1470
00:52:41,125 --> 00:52:41,865
Mhmm. It's awesome.

1471
00:52:43,089 --> 00:52:44,690
Alright. What let's talk about,

1472
00:52:45,010 --> 00:52:47,329
the power of relief society and what we

1473
00:52:47,329 --> 00:52:50,230
learned from history in that context. Yeah. So

1474
00:52:50,609 --> 00:52:52,469
there was a very deep

1475
00:52:53,010 --> 00:52:55,329
commitment to relief society, and I don't think

1476
00:52:55,329 --> 00:52:57,030
we have that as much today.

1477
00:52:57,554 --> 00:52:59,335
And I part of that's the pandemic.

1478
00:52:59,714 --> 00:53:01,554
Part of that is now we only have

1479
00:53:01,554 --> 00:53:03,175
Relief Society twice a month.

1480
00:53:03,554 --> 00:53:05,875
Part of that is we live such busy

1481
00:53:05,875 --> 00:53:08,594
lives and our our families and kids are

1482
00:53:08,594 --> 00:53:10,054
involved with so many different

1483
00:53:10,730 --> 00:53:11,230
activities.

1484
00:53:11,769 --> 00:53:13,690
And I work full time and I have

1485
00:53:13,690 --> 00:53:15,389
a pretty heavy workload,

1486
00:53:15,769 --> 00:53:18,650
and we just don't get that time together

1487
00:53:18,650 --> 00:53:19,309
as women.

1488
00:53:19,929 --> 00:53:21,549
I think it's interesting

1489
00:53:21,929 --> 00:53:24,434
that I told you my favorite Relief Society

1490
00:53:24,494 --> 00:53:27,054
meeting from Nauvoo was April 19. And it

1491
00:53:27,054 --> 00:53:30,174
was an unscheduled meeting. Emma Smith wasn't there.

1492
00:53:30,174 --> 00:53:32,094
But Zaina Young, who was a member at

1493
00:53:32,094 --> 00:53:33,795
the time, her name was Zaina Jacobs.

1494
00:53:34,494 --> 00:53:36,574
She had a sister, Priscindia, who lived out

1495
00:53:36,574 --> 00:53:38,414
of town and had heard about Relief Society

1496
00:53:38,414 --> 00:53:39,480
and she really wanted to

1497
00:53:40,039 --> 00:53:42,119
come. So she comes into town and they

1498
00:53:42,119 --> 00:53:43,980
make her a member of Relief Society

1499
00:53:44,599 --> 00:53:45,099
and,

1500
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:46,859
have a very beautiful

1501
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,980
exchange of testimonies and of experiences.

1502
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:52,859
And Eliza R. Snow

1503
00:53:53,565 --> 00:53:56,204
even blessed her that she would go forth

1504
00:53:56,204 --> 00:53:58,864
and have this relief society in her bones

1505
00:53:59,244 --> 00:54:00,764
and that she would share it with the

1506
00:54:00,764 --> 00:54:02,864
people in her town and where she lived.

1507
00:54:03,164 --> 00:54:05,804
And then later I see that Eliza expands

1508
00:54:05,804 --> 00:54:08,599
that idea as she speaks. She travels all

1509
00:54:08,599 --> 00:54:09,099
around

1510
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,340
Utah, Idaho, Wyoming,

1511
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:12,300
Nevada

1512
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:13,099
territories,

1513
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,000
establishing relief societies and training women. But she

1514
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,719
says something really interesting. There's a pattern. She

1515
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,059
repeats this idea of how relief society,

1516
00:54:22,614 --> 00:54:25,414
we are all like embers or coals, and

1517
00:54:25,414 --> 00:54:27,175
we're all spread out in our homes and

1518
00:54:27,175 --> 00:54:29,675
busy lives. But when we can come together

1519
00:54:29,735 --> 00:54:32,535
to relief society, we can gather together our

1520
00:54:32,535 --> 00:54:34,375
embers and all of a sudden we have

1521
00:54:34,375 --> 00:54:35,675
this flame of fire

1522
00:54:36,429 --> 00:54:38,289
and then your ember is relit

1523
00:54:38,750 --> 00:54:40,590
and you can then take that ember back

1524
00:54:40,590 --> 00:54:41,809
to your busy life

1525
00:54:42,349 --> 00:54:44,269
and it will warm you up and the

1526
00:54:44,269 --> 00:54:45,730
other people that you're with.

1527
00:54:46,110 --> 00:54:48,269
And I love that. And I felt that

1528
00:54:48,269 --> 00:54:50,030
in my relief society this week. I don't

1529
00:54:50,030 --> 00:54:52,454
always feel that. Yeah. But if we could

1530
00:54:52,454 --> 00:54:53,434
take into

1531
00:54:54,055 --> 00:54:55,434
account that possibility,

1532
00:54:56,055 --> 00:54:58,295
I think it would change everything. Yeah. Yeah.

1533
00:54:58,295 --> 00:55:00,235
And it's a mindset shift. Right? That because

1534
00:55:00,615 --> 00:55:02,535
we get again, we have such this long

1535
00:55:02,535 --> 00:55:04,454
history traditions and you can just sort of

1536
00:55:04,454 --> 00:55:06,010
show up like, okay, we typically sing a

1537
00:55:06,010 --> 00:55:07,369
hymn and someone prays, and then we do

1538
00:55:07,369 --> 00:55:09,530
this, and then there's announcements and someone's passing

1539
00:55:09,530 --> 00:55:10,570
a list around. I don't know what the

1540
00:55:10,570 --> 00:55:12,250
list. Right? Right. And we get caught in

1541
00:55:12,250 --> 00:55:12,910
that when

1542
00:55:13,289 --> 00:55:15,210
to step back and really see as these

1543
00:55:15,369 --> 00:55:16,970
this is an organization. I love that, you

1544
00:55:16,970 --> 00:55:18,489
know, this history that you talk about, that

1545
00:55:18,489 --> 00:55:19,550
there's this initiation

1546
00:55:19,849 --> 00:55:21,434
process. You know, I'm not that we're gonna

1547
00:55:21,434 --> 00:55:24,735
go to membership applications and No. Right. But

1548
00:55:24,875 --> 00:55:26,795
what that created was this initiation, like, I'm

1549
00:55:26,795 --> 00:55:28,715
part of something really special. And in fact,

1550
00:55:28,715 --> 00:55:30,555
I'm gonna come from way out of town

1551
00:55:30,555 --> 00:55:32,555
to attend this meeting because it is so

1552
00:55:32,555 --> 00:55:35,429
sanctifying and real. And and the the embers

1553
00:55:35,429 --> 00:55:36,650
thing because some I imagine

1554
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:39,829
some people come and their embers completely dried

1555
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:41,349
out. A %.

1556
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:42,969
Yeah. And they need the the

1557
00:55:43,269 --> 00:55:45,590
the community fire to reignite them so they

1558
00:55:45,590 --> 00:55:48,070
can return to their homes. Right? Yeah. Here's

1559
00:55:48,070 --> 00:55:50,974
a great example too. In 1886,

1560
00:55:50,974 --> 00:55:52,994
this is a year before Eliza dies.

1561
00:55:53,295 --> 00:55:55,875
She's not doing well. She has poor health.

1562
00:55:56,255 --> 00:55:58,175
To be understood, she's 82

1563
00:55:58,175 --> 00:56:00,434
years old, right? Wow. 83

1564
00:56:00,494 --> 00:56:02,860
years old. And she is not able to

1565
00:56:02,860 --> 00:56:05,599
attend the Salt Lake Stake Relief Society conference.

1566
00:56:06,059 --> 00:56:07,280
But she sends a letter,

1567
00:56:07,579 --> 00:56:09,739
and it is such a beautiful letter. And

1568
00:56:09,739 --> 00:56:12,719
she tells them, may you have a copious

1569
00:56:13,260 --> 00:56:13,760
refreshing

1570
00:56:14,219 --> 00:56:16,320
of the spirit at this meeting.

1571
00:56:16,775 --> 00:56:18,934
And I believe that's what she tried to

1572
00:56:18,934 --> 00:56:21,494
do everywhere she went. Because some of these

1573
00:56:21,494 --> 00:56:23,574
settlements in Utah are so spread out in

1574
00:56:23,574 --> 00:56:25,894
the middle of nowhere in places I've never

1575
00:56:25,894 --> 00:56:27,494
heard of, and I've been grown up in

1576
00:56:27,494 --> 00:56:28,715
Utah my whole life.

1577
00:56:29,119 --> 00:56:31,539
But she tries to spread that,

1578
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,179
the fire from Salt Lake out.

1579
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:36,960
And it's incredible to see how women pick

1580
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,840
that up and take that seriously. Yeah. But

1581
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,440
it so it's not only a fire, but

1582
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,059
it's a copious refreshing

1583
00:56:43,565 --> 00:56:44,385
of the spirit.

1584
00:56:44,684 --> 00:56:47,184
She writes about that Nauvoo Relief Society meeting

1585
00:56:47,565 --> 00:56:49,905
that they felt the spirit as a purifying

1586
00:56:50,125 --> 00:56:50,625
stream,

1587
00:56:51,164 --> 00:56:53,485
which is such a beautiful term. And if

1588
00:56:53,485 --> 00:56:55,485
we could think about that and seek for

1589
00:56:55,485 --> 00:56:57,485
that, and I think again, some days you're

1590
00:56:57,485 --> 00:56:58,605
going to get it and some days you

1591
00:56:58,605 --> 00:56:59,105
won't.

1592
00:56:59,460 --> 00:57:02,019
But if we go with that intent, like

1593
00:57:02,019 --> 00:57:04,920
heavenly father this week, I really need

1594
00:57:05,460 --> 00:57:07,480
a copious refreshing of the spirit,

1595
00:57:08,019 --> 00:57:11,000
or I really need my soul to burn,

1596
00:57:11,300 --> 00:57:13,559
or I really need to feel the purifying

1597
00:57:13,780 --> 00:57:14,280
stream

1598
00:57:14,964 --> 00:57:17,545
that we we can not only as leaders

1599
00:57:17,925 --> 00:57:19,925
seek for that, but as as members, we

1600
00:57:19,925 --> 00:57:22,405
can we can ask for that. Yeah. And

1601
00:57:22,405 --> 00:57:24,184
I'm just thinking just the the restructuring

1602
00:57:24,885 --> 00:57:26,885
that, you know, the the church is staying

1603
00:57:26,885 --> 00:57:29,764
president Nielsen is is laying out with, you

1604
00:57:29,764 --> 00:57:30,264
know,

1605
00:57:30,619 --> 00:57:32,940
really emphasizing the role of the elders quorum

1606
00:57:32,940 --> 00:57:35,019
president and the relief society president, where instead

1607
00:57:35,019 --> 00:57:36,000
of maybe seeing

1608
00:57:36,300 --> 00:57:38,559
our organization as a ward, it's actually

1609
00:57:38,940 --> 00:57:41,760
two organizations working together, the the men's organization

1610
00:57:41,820 --> 00:57:43,660
and the women's organization. And, yeah, there's a

1611
00:57:43,660 --> 00:57:45,795
bishop that's working with the youth and is

1612
00:57:45,795 --> 00:57:47,494
presiding over that structure,

1613
00:57:47,875 --> 00:57:49,335
but to really empower

1614
00:57:49,795 --> 00:57:52,195
the tradition of these organizations rather than, oh,

1615
00:57:52,195 --> 00:57:53,715
that's just where the women go. And over

1616
00:57:53,715 --> 00:57:55,315
there, that's where the men go, and that's

1617
00:57:55,315 --> 00:57:57,574
what we do. Yeah. That's the second hour.

1618
00:57:57,750 --> 00:58:00,681
That's the second hour. So I think and

1619
00:58:00,681 --> 00:58:03,288
I just had this idea as you were

1620
00:58:03,288 --> 00:58:05,893
saying that. I think that the Relief Society

1621
00:58:05,893 --> 00:58:08,500
president is also enlarged in the sense that

1622
00:58:08,500 --> 00:58:11,106
she calls upon ministering sisters to do sort

1623
00:58:11,106 --> 00:58:13,375
of the groundwork for her. We have a

1624
00:58:13,375 --> 00:58:15,394
huge ward and we're in a highly

1625
00:58:15,934 --> 00:58:16,434
developing

1626
00:58:16,735 --> 00:58:17,235
area,

1627
00:58:17,855 --> 00:58:19,614
and I don't know how she can keep

1628
00:58:19,614 --> 00:58:21,695
track of all the people moving in and

1629
00:58:21,695 --> 00:58:22,515
moving out.

1630
00:58:22,974 --> 00:58:25,795
But she has set up these ministering sisters

1631
00:58:26,015 --> 00:58:27,155
as have other

1632
00:58:27,860 --> 00:58:29,960
wards and relief societies as

1633
00:58:30,420 --> 00:58:32,199
per president Nelson's instruction.

1634
00:58:32,900 --> 00:58:35,140
And there's something that I love that Eliza

1635
00:58:35,140 --> 00:58:38,420
teaches about that. This, this idea of reaching

1636
00:58:38,420 --> 00:58:40,054
out of teaching, They

1637
00:58:41,155 --> 00:58:42,682
were first called teachers, then they were called

1638
00:58:42,682 --> 00:58:44,355
visiting teachers. Now they're called ministering sisters. So

1639
00:58:44,355 --> 00:58:46,034
the name has changed. Uh-huh. But the idea

1640
00:58:46,034 --> 00:58:48,034
is still the same. Yeah. And the concept

1641
00:58:48,034 --> 00:58:48,694
is this,

1642
00:58:48,994 --> 00:58:51,315
as Eliza says, that you need to go

1643
00:58:51,315 --> 00:58:53,635
into the homes of the people that you

1644
00:58:53,635 --> 00:58:56,539
minister to. And you need to feel if

1645
00:58:56,539 --> 00:58:58,780
the spirit is there or if the fire

1646
00:58:58,780 --> 00:59:01,500
has gone out. And if it has, you

1647
00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:03,920
need to take that woman into your bosom

1648
00:59:03,980 --> 00:59:06,159
and hug her and warm her up

1649
00:59:06,619 --> 00:59:08,320
so that she can have that.

1650
00:59:08,804 --> 00:59:10,824
How powerful is that idea? Wow.

1651
00:59:11,125 --> 00:59:14,164
And how beautiful, how can we apply that

1652
00:59:14,164 --> 00:59:15,864
to our ministry? Yeah.

1653
00:59:16,164 --> 00:59:18,244
Just to go into a home or to

1654
00:59:18,244 --> 00:59:20,324
reach out, you know, through texts and whatever

1655
00:59:20,324 --> 00:59:23,704
way that is possible and purposeful

1656
00:59:24,619 --> 00:59:26,480
and to warm up that sister.

1657
00:59:26,860 --> 00:59:28,539
Yeah. You know, it reminds me of my

1658
00:59:28,539 --> 00:59:29,900
wife. Just this week, she called,

1659
00:59:30,380 --> 00:59:31,900
you know, she had a new ministering assignment.

1660
00:59:31,900 --> 00:59:33,500
So she called one of the sisters on

1661
00:59:33,500 --> 00:59:34,940
her list and Mhmm. Got her on the

1662
00:59:34,940 --> 00:59:36,880
phone and sort of introduced like, hey. I'm,

1663
00:59:37,179 --> 00:59:40,160
Alana, and I'm your ministering sister. And suddenly,

1664
00:59:40,265 --> 00:59:41,724
she said it suddenly got awkward.

1665
00:59:42,025 --> 00:59:44,105
And she said, oh, well, I haven't been

1666
00:59:44,105 --> 00:59:46,204
practicing for about twelve years now,

1667
00:59:46,585 --> 00:59:48,905
but I'd be happy to be a neighbor

1668
00:59:48,905 --> 00:59:50,744
with you. And my wife's like, perfect. I

1669
00:59:50,744 --> 00:59:52,184
would love that. You know, you don't have

1670
00:59:52,184 --> 00:59:54,265
to talk anything church. But, again, just the

1671
00:59:54,265 --> 00:59:56,090
action of now there's an opportunity to warm

1672
00:59:56,090 --> 00:59:57,849
her heart. And, again, not because, well, we

1673
00:59:57,849 --> 00:59:59,610
gotta get her back at church, but maybe

1674
00:59:59,610 --> 01:00:01,690
it'll let it go that way. But but,

1675
01:00:01,690 --> 01:00:03,690
you know, my wife can still take that

1676
01:00:03,690 --> 01:00:05,663
power of the Relief Society, that spirit Mhmm.

1677
01:00:05,796 --> 01:00:08,590
To this the sweet neighbor. Of course. Absolutely.

1678
01:00:08,650 --> 01:00:10,914
And I think, again, we can expand our

1679
01:00:10,914 --> 01:00:12,454
wording and our definitions

1680
01:00:12,755 --> 01:00:14,934
and what we're doing. Yeah. But the idea

1681
01:00:14,994 --> 01:00:16,855
is still the same, is to

1682
01:00:17,155 --> 01:00:19,155
make sure that that person is taken care

1683
01:00:19,155 --> 01:00:20,694
of, that they are loved,

1684
01:00:20,994 --> 01:00:22,289
and that if they have

1685
01:00:22,610 --> 01:00:26,130
needs, whether they're physical or spiritual or mental

1686
01:00:26,130 --> 01:00:27,349
or whatever social

1687
01:00:27,650 --> 01:00:30,130
Yeah. That we can help meet them. And

1688
01:00:30,130 --> 01:00:33,110
in that sense, we're providing relief to them.

1689
01:00:33,410 --> 01:00:35,349
And it's like we're joining this

1690
01:00:36,085 --> 01:00:36,585
ministry

1691
01:00:36,965 --> 01:00:40,244
Yeah. Of Christ. Right. Yeah. And that's what

1692
01:00:40,244 --> 01:00:42,485
it's well named as a ministry. Yeah. Paul

1693
01:00:42,485 --> 01:00:44,985
calls it in in Corinthians. He calls it,

1694
01:00:45,045 --> 01:00:47,285
you are an ambassador of Christ. Oh, that's

1695
01:00:47,285 --> 01:00:50,010
powerful. Right? Love that. Love that. Alright. Well,

1696
01:00:50,010 --> 01:00:51,949
as we wrap up here, let's just do,

1697
01:00:52,570 --> 01:00:54,650
let's just run down the all star list

1698
01:00:54,650 --> 01:00:56,590
here. Just some maybe some past

1699
01:00:56,890 --> 01:00:59,050
female leaders that, we don't get heard of

1700
01:00:59,210 --> 01:01:00,809
or maybe we do and and maybe there's

1701
01:01:00,809 --> 01:01:02,890
unique perspective. So let's hit some of those.

1702
01:01:02,890 --> 01:01:04,835
Yeah. I wanna tell you about two women

1703
01:01:04,835 --> 01:01:07,175
that I learned about when I was

1704
01:01:07,714 --> 01:01:09,255
writing the book at the pulpit.

1705
01:01:09,554 --> 01:01:11,414
One of them was named Jane Nymond.

1706
01:01:11,795 --> 01:01:15,074
Never heard of her. Cute little, poor little

1707
01:01:15,074 --> 01:01:16,454
lady in Nauvoo,

1708
01:01:17,019 --> 01:01:18,000
came from Pennsylvania.

1709
01:01:18,300 --> 01:01:21,039
Her husband died shortly after they arrived.

1710
01:01:21,340 --> 01:01:24,059
She married again. Her second husband died, and

1711
01:01:24,059 --> 01:01:26,300
she had six family members die. You know,

1712
01:01:26,300 --> 01:01:28,220
all the stories, all the people are dying.

1713
01:01:28,220 --> 01:01:28,720
Right?

1714
01:01:29,684 --> 01:01:30,184
But

1715
01:01:30,885 --> 01:01:32,965
she wanted to join the Navajo relief society.

1716
01:01:32,965 --> 01:01:35,224
She had received assistance from them

1717
01:01:35,525 --> 01:01:37,684
because of her dire condition. And so she

1718
01:01:37,684 --> 01:01:38,744
applied for membership

1719
01:01:39,285 --> 01:01:41,465
and her membership was turned down

1720
01:01:41,799 --> 01:01:43,880
because there was a lot of gossip surrounding

1721
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:44,619
her daughters

1722
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:46,940
who got caught up in some surreptitious

1723
01:01:47,239 --> 01:01:47,739
activity.

1724
01:01:48,359 --> 01:01:50,920
And that was heartbreaking for her. Not only

1725
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:52,839
that there was so much gossip about her,

1726
01:01:52,839 --> 01:01:54,380
but that they would think that

1727
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,940
she was a bad person because of that.

1728
01:01:57,255 --> 01:02:00,295
She didn't become bitter. She stayed with the

1729
01:02:00,295 --> 01:02:02,214
church, crossed the plains with one of her

1730
01:02:02,214 --> 01:02:03,434
daughters and her husband,

1731
01:02:03,894 --> 01:02:07,355
and eventually became the first Relief Society president

1732
01:02:07,414 --> 01:02:08,554
in Beaver, Utah.

1733
01:02:09,174 --> 01:02:10,234
Small town Beaver.

1734
01:02:10,569 --> 01:02:12,109
So she she recognized

1735
01:02:12,409 --> 01:02:14,589
the power of relief society, but her big

1736
01:02:15,049 --> 01:02:15,549
thing

1737
01:02:15,849 --> 01:02:16,349
was

1738
01:02:16,650 --> 01:02:17,469
that charity

1739
01:02:17,769 --> 01:02:18,989
covers a multitude

1740
01:02:19,369 --> 01:02:20,030
of sins.

1741
01:02:20,730 --> 01:02:23,449
And if we don't speak poorly about each

1742
01:02:23,449 --> 01:02:25,069
other, but if we

1743
01:02:25,485 --> 01:02:26,625
take up charity,

1744
01:02:27,244 --> 01:02:29,505
then we will do something extraordinary.

1745
01:02:30,045 --> 01:02:32,445
Yeah. And it it's so beautiful. Her talk

1746
01:02:32,445 --> 01:02:34,365
is I mean, her discourse, I guess, in

1747
01:02:34,525 --> 01:02:37,164
at the pulpit is very short. It's just

1748
01:02:37,164 --> 01:02:37,825
a paragraph,

1749
01:02:38,219 --> 01:02:40,059
but it's such a powerful talk once you

1750
01:02:40,059 --> 01:02:42,780
know about her Yeah. And about what she

1751
01:02:42,780 --> 01:02:44,639
went through to come to that understanding.

1752
01:02:45,099 --> 01:02:47,900
Yeah. And that that's powerful because there are

1753
01:02:48,059 --> 01:02:50,380
sometimes people can say things that sting so

1754
01:02:50,380 --> 01:02:52,320
much and hurt for so long,

1755
01:02:52,704 --> 01:02:55,204
but to still maintain that perspective of charity,

1756
01:02:55,424 --> 01:02:57,344
because those that say those things. Right? Yeah.

1757
01:02:57,344 --> 01:03:00,164
And I think that's important today. Yeah. Extremely

1758
01:03:00,304 --> 01:03:02,464
important. So the second one I wanna talk

1759
01:03:02,464 --> 01:03:04,545
about is I found a talk that was

1760
01:03:04,545 --> 01:03:05,844
printed in the women's exponent

1761
01:03:06,179 --> 01:03:08,599
that was given, which was a nineteenth century

1762
01:03:09,059 --> 01:03:10,199
Mormon women's newspaper.

1763
01:03:10,579 --> 01:03:12,339
And it was given in the Salt Lake

1764
01:03:12,339 --> 01:03:14,500
City eleventh ward, young women. And it was

1765
01:03:14,500 --> 01:03:15,319
about prayer.

1766
01:03:15,619 --> 01:03:18,260
And the author of the talk or the

1767
01:03:18,260 --> 01:03:19,319
giver of the talk,

1768
01:03:19,780 --> 01:03:20,679
had the initials

1769
01:03:21,215 --> 01:03:22,275
EG Jones.

1770
01:03:22,815 --> 01:03:24,914
And I it was such a beautiful talk

1771
01:03:24,974 --> 01:03:25,954
and incredible.

1772
01:03:26,414 --> 01:03:27,795
One of my favorite parts

1773
01:03:28,335 --> 01:03:30,034
was the fact that she said,

1774
01:03:30,414 --> 01:03:33,000
prayer is the key to the statehouse of

1775
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:34,059
our understanding

1776
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:35,179
and communication.

1777
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:37,800
It is what allows us to communicate with

1778
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:38,300
God.

1779
01:03:38,679 --> 01:03:41,159
But then she says, there is no pit

1780
01:03:41,159 --> 01:03:41,980
so deep,

1781
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:45,639
no hole so dark that you cannot reach

1782
01:03:45,639 --> 01:03:47,579
out to your heavenly father in prayer.

1783
01:03:48,105 --> 01:03:49,324
And it's just beautiful.

1784
01:03:49,864 --> 01:03:51,465
So but I had to find out who

1785
01:03:51,465 --> 01:03:53,625
this person was. Yeah. And I had to

1786
01:03:53,625 --> 01:03:55,485
call on a family history specialist,

1787
01:03:56,025 --> 01:03:57,704
and we found her. Her name was Eleanor

1788
01:03:57,704 --> 01:04:00,000
Georgina Jones. Did you know it was a

1789
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,079
a woman when Yeah. Because she was speaking

1790
01:04:02,079 --> 01:04:03,359
to this to the Oh, okay. Got it.

1791
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:04,739
Young women in Salt Lake.

1792
01:04:05,039 --> 01:04:07,219
And we found her in a few places

1793
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,199
in the church history catalog, but we also

1794
01:04:09,199 --> 01:04:10,579
found her in census records

1795
01:04:11,039 --> 01:04:12,500
in 1850

1796
01:04:13,119 --> 01:04:13,940
in Nashville,

1797
01:04:14,239 --> 01:04:14,739
Tennessee.

1798
01:04:15,215 --> 01:04:17,954
And in that census record, it showed that

1799
01:04:18,494 --> 01:04:20,755
her mother was mixed race.

1800
01:04:21,215 --> 01:04:23,215
The man that was with her mother, we

1801
01:04:23,215 --> 01:04:24,574
don't know if that was her father, we

1802
01:04:24,574 --> 01:04:27,054
can assume that, but we don't know, was

1803
01:04:27,054 --> 01:04:27,554
black.

1804
01:04:27,929 --> 01:04:30,010
And her siblings had all been born in

1805
01:04:30,010 --> 01:04:30,909
different states.

1806
01:04:31,449 --> 01:04:33,869
So like Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee,

1807
01:04:34,569 --> 01:04:35,789
all over. And

1808
01:04:36,170 --> 01:04:39,469
this is in before the civil war. Right?

1809
01:04:39,849 --> 01:04:42,855
So this, we don't know anything about these

1810
01:04:42,855 --> 01:04:46,074
people. If the children came from different fathers,

1811
01:04:46,535 --> 01:04:48,795
if they were slaves on different plantations,

1812
01:04:49,494 --> 01:04:52,135
we don't know. All we know is Eleanor

1813
01:04:52,135 --> 01:04:54,460
and her sister joined the church and that

1814
01:04:54,460 --> 01:04:57,340
she was wide enough or light enough when

1815
01:04:57,340 --> 01:04:59,660
she came to Salt Lake that she passed

1816
01:04:59,660 --> 01:05:00,719
as a white person.

1817
01:05:01,019 --> 01:05:02,079
And as a result,

1818
01:05:02,699 --> 01:05:03,199
they

1819
01:05:03,739 --> 01:05:05,500
allowed her to go to the temple. They

1820
01:05:05,500 --> 01:05:07,119
allowed her send to hold the priesthood

1821
01:05:07,734 --> 01:05:09,815
and she sort of traveled back and forth

1822
01:05:09,815 --> 01:05:12,855
between Salt Lake and California where her husband

1823
01:05:12,855 --> 01:05:13,355
lived.

1824
01:05:15,094 --> 01:05:17,255
So there's just not much known about her

1825
01:05:17,255 --> 01:05:20,074
at all. There are no photographs of her.

1826
01:05:20,670 --> 01:05:23,409
She had no journals, no letters.

1827
01:05:23,789 --> 01:05:25,869
She had one letter she wrote to Brigham

1828
01:05:25,869 --> 01:05:27,630
Young saying she was going back to California

1829
01:05:27,630 --> 01:05:28,369
for a time.

1830
01:05:28,670 --> 01:05:31,069
But she's a very unknown person, but I

1831
01:05:31,069 --> 01:05:32,849
felt like she was kind of leaving breadcrumbs

1832
01:05:32,989 --> 01:05:34,210
for us to find her.

1833
01:05:34,565 --> 01:05:36,885
And we discovered that she died in Redding,

1834
01:05:36,885 --> 01:05:37,385
California.

1835
01:05:38,244 --> 01:05:38,744
And

1836
01:05:39,125 --> 01:05:40,985
we were able to get the death certificate

1837
01:05:41,204 --> 01:05:42,885
and find out that she died of a

1838
01:05:42,885 --> 01:05:45,045
stroke ten days, she had a stroke, and

1839
01:05:45,045 --> 01:05:46,885
then ten days later, she died and was

1840
01:05:46,885 --> 01:05:48,505
buried in an unmarked grave.

1841
01:05:48,809 --> 01:05:51,130
And so her story is lost. But then

1842
01:05:51,130 --> 01:05:53,369
when you think about who she was and

1843
01:05:53,369 --> 01:05:55,769
the words that she said, there is no

1844
01:05:55,769 --> 01:05:57,150
pit so deep

1845
01:05:57,530 --> 01:06:00,489
and no hole so dark that you cannot

1846
01:06:00,489 --> 01:06:02,510
reach heavenly father in prayer.

1847
01:06:02,945 --> 01:06:06,065
What an incredible woman. Yeah. And so we

1848
01:06:06,065 --> 01:06:07,824
don't even know why she maybe was even

1849
01:06:07,824 --> 01:06:10,625
speaking at this occasion. No. Wow. But the

1850
01:06:10,625 --> 01:06:13,505
power was definitely there. Yeah. And almost this

1851
01:06:13,664 --> 01:06:15,690
like, even those that feel like they have

1852
01:06:15,690 --> 01:06:17,530
that are a no name in the history

1853
01:06:17,530 --> 01:06:18,909
of the church, you still can

1854
01:06:19,289 --> 01:06:22,569
have such influence that reaches the reaches the

1855
01:06:22,569 --> 01:06:24,969
future of the saints. Right? And her talk

1856
01:06:24,969 --> 01:06:27,369
now is on our gospel library app. Oh,

1857
01:06:27,369 --> 01:06:28,889
that's something. At the pulpit. And so I

1858
01:06:28,889 --> 01:06:30,255
love to share that when I speak at

1859
01:06:30,255 --> 01:06:31,714
at girls camps, especially.

1860
01:06:32,255 --> 01:06:34,094
Cool. Because I think that's such an important

1861
01:06:34,094 --> 01:06:35,855
message. But I think it also tells us

1862
01:06:35,855 --> 01:06:37,775
in the present day that we really need

1863
01:06:37,775 --> 01:06:39,694
the voices of the people that don't speak

1864
01:06:39,694 --> 01:06:41,875
up, that are on the margins, that don't

1865
01:06:42,174 --> 01:06:44,734
participate, because they can have incredible things to

1866
01:06:44,734 --> 01:06:46,789
say. Yeah. And I'm glad you mentioned you

1867
01:06:46,789 --> 01:06:48,230
remind me that at the pulpit is in

1868
01:06:48,230 --> 01:06:50,390
the gospel library. I sometimes forget that. They

1869
01:06:50,390 --> 01:06:52,170
they put it in there. Awesome. Yes.

1870
01:06:52,710 --> 01:06:53,769
Any other sisters,

1871
01:06:54,469 --> 01:06:56,390
in in the in the hit there's so

1872
01:06:56,390 --> 01:06:58,150
many others. I do write many other books,

1873
01:06:58,150 --> 01:06:58,550
but,

1874
01:06:58,949 --> 01:07:01,324
this has just been so inspiring and and

1875
01:07:01,324 --> 01:07:03,405
helpful. The the last question I wanna end

1876
01:07:03,405 --> 01:07:05,405
on, and, well, let me first ask this.

1877
01:07:05,405 --> 01:07:06,944
If people do want to

1878
01:07:07,244 --> 01:07:08,924
find more of your writing and whether it's

1879
01:07:08,924 --> 01:07:11,565
about Emma or At the Pulpit, wherever, anywhere

1880
01:07:11,565 --> 01:07:13,644
you'd send them specifically to to learn more

1881
01:07:13,644 --> 01:07:15,969
about that? You can find my Emma book

1882
01:07:15,969 --> 01:07:18,389
at Deseret Book or on Amazon.

1883
01:07:19,009 --> 01:07:20,630
I have a chapter in a book

1884
01:07:20,929 --> 01:07:23,250
called A Place to Belong that was published

1885
01:07:23,250 --> 01:07:26,130
by Deseret Book as well. Janice Johnson and

1886
01:07:26,130 --> 01:07:28,549
I did a compilation of women's experiences.

1887
01:07:29,085 --> 01:07:31,264
It's called The Witness of Women, Firsthand

1888
01:07:31,644 --> 01:07:33,025
Experiences and Testimonies

1889
01:07:33,484 --> 01:07:34,304
of the Restoration,

1890
01:07:35,005 --> 01:07:37,264
which is a very powerful, easy to use

1891
01:07:37,484 --> 01:07:39,644
book for especially now when we're studying the

1892
01:07:39,644 --> 01:07:42,125
Doctrine and Covenants for different events to bring

1893
01:07:42,125 --> 01:07:43,025
women's voices

1894
01:07:43,590 --> 01:07:45,750
into our lessons and then our talks and

1895
01:07:45,750 --> 01:07:47,829
family home meetings. And then, of course, at

1896
01:07:47,829 --> 01:07:49,849
the pulpit is a great compilation.

1897
01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:52,070
Awesome. The last question I have for you

1898
01:07:52,070 --> 01:07:54,150
is a unique one because just walking these

1899
01:07:54,150 --> 01:07:55,989
halls, there's just such a spirit here. And

1900
01:07:55,989 --> 01:07:58,025
you, you know, in a typical,

1901
01:07:58,324 --> 01:07:59,925
world, you work here day to day and

1902
01:07:59,925 --> 01:08:01,444
and walk these halls. And I bet there

1903
01:08:01,444 --> 01:08:03,764
are moments you've had probably remarkable experiences where

1904
01:08:03,764 --> 01:08:05,364
you felt some of these spirits almost sit

1905
01:08:05,364 --> 01:08:07,045
down next to you as you're reading their

1906
01:08:07,045 --> 01:08:09,925
journal. So whether you feel qualified to do

1907
01:08:09,925 --> 01:08:10,744
this or not,

1908
01:08:11,049 --> 01:08:11,869
as a representative

1909
01:08:12,170 --> 01:08:13,869
of these women in the history,

1910
01:08:14,250 --> 01:08:16,510
these sweet, wonderful, latter day saints,

1911
01:08:16,969 --> 01:08:19,449
what message what encouragement would do you think

1912
01:08:19,449 --> 01:08:21,389
they'd give to women of modern times?

1913
01:08:22,090 --> 01:08:23,069
For me personally,

1914
01:08:23,369 --> 01:08:25,550
these women have become my host.

1915
01:08:26,025 --> 01:08:28,204
I have a host of earthly people

1916
01:08:28,744 --> 01:08:30,905
and I have a heavenly host. And some

1917
01:08:30,905 --> 01:08:32,505
of them are my family members, but a

1918
01:08:32,505 --> 01:08:33,885
lot of them are these women.

1919
01:08:34,265 --> 01:08:36,445
And they've sat with me in

1920
01:08:36,905 --> 01:08:38,204
lone and dark

1921
01:08:38,585 --> 01:08:39,645
hospital rooms,

1922
01:08:40,070 --> 01:08:41,829
or when I've been scared, or when I've

1923
01:08:41,829 --> 01:08:43,369
been working on them.

1924
01:08:43,909 --> 01:08:46,310
I think that if we can know who

1925
01:08:46,310 --> 01:08:48,250
they are and understand them,

1926
01:08:48,710 --> 01:08:50,550
we can have them with us, and they

1927
01:08:50,550 --> 01:08:53,130
can give us courage, and they can understand

1928
01:08:53,190 --> 01:08:54,970
our complicated life experiences,

1929
01:08:56,055 --> 01:08:59,175
and help us to find different places where

1930
01:08:59,175 --> 01:09:00,235
we can pray,

1931
01:09:00,614 --> 01:09:03,095
or we can attend the temple and feel

1932
01:09:03,095 --> 01:09:05,255
them there as well. But I think they

1933
01:09:05,255 --> 01:09:06,315
provide such

1934
01:09:07,015 --> 01:09:07,515
depth.

1935
01:09:07,909 --> 01:09:09,510
It's sort of a different kind of depth.

1936
01:09:09,510 --> 01:09:11,189
Like, I think it's more than three d

1937
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:13,289
depth. I think it's like another dimension,

1938
01:09:13,829 --> 01:09:16,250
right, that we can't see or or understand

1939
01:09:16,869 --> 01:09:17,770
with our mortal

1940
01:09:18,149 --> 01:09:19,289
eyes or ears.

1941
01:09:19,670 --> 01:09:21,795
But I think that that once we understand

1942
01:09:21,795 --> 01:09:24,194
that these are our spiritual sisters and that

1943
01:09:24,194 --> 01:09:25,574
we belong to a sisterhood,

1944
01:09:26,034 --> 01:09:27,895
not just mothers, but sisters,

1945
01:09:28,354 --> 01:09:30,994
and that we're building the kingdom in different

1946
01:09:30,994 --> 01:09:33,574
time periods, but we're doing it together.

1947
01:09:33,954 --> 01:09:34,935
It's an incredible

1948
01:09:35,314 --> 01:09:35,814
empowering

1949
01:09:36,570 --> 01:09:37,930
thing to feel that and to be a

1950
01:09:37,930 --> 01:09:38,750
part of that.

1951
01:09:46,729 --> 01:09:49,530
And that concludes this throwback episode of the

1952
01:09:49,530 --> 01:09:50,829
Leading Saints podcast.

1953
01:09:51,425 --> 01:09:52,944
Now that we've reached the end of the

1954
01:09:52,944 --> 01:09:53,444
episode,

1955
01:09:53,824 --> 01:09:55,984
I quickly wanna thank you for supporting the

1956
01:09:55,984 --> 01:09:57,204
Leading Saints podcast.

1957
01:09:57,585 --> 01:09:59,664
There's so much content out there to consider,

1958
01:09:59,664 --> 01:10:02,385
and you picked this one. If Leading Saints

1959
01:10:02,385 --> 01:10:04,385
has made an impact in your life, we

1960
01:10:04,385 --> 01:10:06,479
would sure like to hear about it at

1961
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:08,420
leadingsaints.org/contact.

1962
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,119
And if you could quickly text or email

1963
01:10:11,119 --> 01:10:13,679
this episode to a leader you know, I

1964
01:10:13,679 --> 01:10:15,359
bet it will bless their life. You can

1965
01:10:15,359 --> 01:10:17,279
mark off your good turn daily, and let's

1966
01:10:17,279 --> 01:10:19,760
even call it ministering. Okay. Maybe not that

1967
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,195
far. But seriously, thank you, and help us

1968
01:10:22,195 --> 01:10:23,095
share this content.

1969
01:10:23,475 --> 01:10:26,195
Remember, go to leadingsaints.org/14

1970
01:10:26,195 --> 01:10:29,155
to access the remarkable presentation by Anthony Sweat

1971
01:10:29,155 --> 01:10:30,855
about ambiguity and doctrine.

1972
01:10:38,930 --> 01:10:41,489
It came as a result of the position

1973
01:10:41,489 --> 01:10:44,630
of leadership which was imposed upon us

1974
01:10:45,090 --> 01:10:47,625
by the God of heaven who brought forth

1975
01:10:47,625 --> 01:10:51,244
a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

1976
01:10:51,784 --> 01:10:52,765
When the declaration

1977
01:10:53,145 --> 01:10:55,484
was made concerning the only

1978
01:10:56,185 --> 01:10:58,585
true and living Church upon the face of

1979
01:10:58,585 --> 01:10:59,220
the earth,

1980
01:10:59,780 --> 01:11:02,440
We were immediately put in a position of

1981
01:11:02,579 --> 01:11:03,079
loneliness,

1982
01:11:03,460 --> 01:11:05,000
the loneliness of leadership

1983
01:11:05,940 --> 01:11:09,000
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,

1984
01:11:09,940 --> 01:11:12,420
and to which we must face up with

1985
01:11:12,420 --> 01:11:13,960
boldness and courage

1986
01:11:14,668 --> 01:11:15,488
and ability.