How's your teaching calling going? Have you ever
asked a question during the second hour, and
suddenly everyone is looking at the carpet in
silence? There are proven methods to stimulate class
discussion that work like a charm. David Farnsworth
does a masterful job presenting on this very
subject in the Teaching Saints virtual library. What
questions get people talking? How can you effectively
listen to the answer they're saying without being
distracted of where you wanna take the class
next? These are crucial principles to consider, especially
in this time of come follow me Sunday
school. You can watch David Farnsworth's
presentation by visiting leadingsaints.org/fourteen.
There, you can gain free access for fourteen
days to the Teaching Saints virtual library, where
you'll find hours and hours of content to
help you be a better prepared Sunday teacher.
So this is what we do here at
Leading Saints is every week, we go out
and find somebody in the world who has
some leadership experience. This is nobody, you know,
as far as an expert or somebody who's
figured it all out, but these are everyday
people serving in callings just like you do.
We simply ask them, how is it that
you lead? What do you do? What principles
have helped? What's your reward like? What's your
stake like? And, the the stories and examples
that come to the surface are inspiring and
phenomenal
and and populate the Leading Saints community with
ideas that you can use or,
you know, work with them and make a
fit for your area. So in this episode,
we talk with Amy Jo Schinowerk
from Texas. She also has a very unique
job in law enforcement being a dispatcher, which
we talk about, and there's a lot of
leadership principles that,
she uses,
in her role as a stake relief society
president as well. She's got experience as a
ward relief society president and some phenomenal
principles.
Listen to why she called three counselors. That's
right. Not just two counselors. She got the
bonus counselor, and she has three counselors, two
secretaries, and how that helps her delegate. It's
a phenomenal approach and worth worth considering. She
also does a great job leveraging skill sets
in her local area, making sure, you know,
people are aware of the what members have
to give. And so when those skill sets
are needed,
there's someone to step up and serve the
community better. So you're going to love this
episode, share it with any stake or ward
relief study president or a PRINCE member out
there. I think they'll benefit from it. And
I must mention,
in parts of the episode, her dog tries
to be on the podcast as well, barking
in the background. Just ignore it. You can
still hear her fine, but know that we
were, working behind the scenes to, remedy that.
But, you know, these are real people with
real dogs, and we love dogs. So here's
my interview with Amy Jo Chenowork.
All right, Amy, Jo Chenowork.
Welcome to the Leading Saints podcast. Thank you.
Thank you. It's a surprise to be here.
Awesome. Well, I'm so glad for the individuals
who recommend your name, and I think this
will lead to a great discussion.
Maybe tell us, you're North Of Dallas or
Fort Worth or South
South Of Fort Worth. Oh, okay. Yeah. South
Of Fort Worth. Yeah.
And, have you been there most of your
most of your life or years from there?
No. We my husband's a professor,
so we came here for a
professor job with the Texas A and M
school system. So we've been here about ten
years.
Awesome. And, you got a pretty unique job.
How do you explain your job when people
ask you about it?
So my father was in law enforcement,
and,
out of our his seven children, it was
just me
that had that, I guess, in their blood.
So it was kind of our thing. And,
I work in the radio room.
I'm a tactical communications
dispatcher, I guess, is the fancy name for
what I do.
Just mostly
dispatch calls that come in on 911 lines.
Sometimes I'll do 911, but, yeah, I'm the
dispatcher.
So you're not necessarily the person that answers
the 911 call, but I mean, sometimes. Sometimes
when you, you know, have a tornado going
on, everyone's all hands on deck, you know?
Yeah. Mostly, I'm the dispatcher. So someone calls
in, talks to a 911
and then they send the info to you
saying, this is the situation. This is what
we need. And then you
tell the police to jump in the car.
Yeah. Or the fire department or the hazmat
or whoever needs to respond. Yeah. SWAT. Nice.
Canine.
What would you say? Like, has there been
a specific skill set you've developed just doing
that job? I mean, obviously, I would imagine
you have to be kinda cool under pressure
or
direct dirt. You do. That's pretty good. You
do have to remain calm. We call it
calm in the chaos
in the radio room. You have to have
really
good listening. Most people, when they talk to
you,
don't tune into a conversation for about, let's
say, five seconds.
And so when you go through the training
and you answer a 911 call, you miss
the whole call, and then you're like, okay.
Wait. Now what was your address? And you
make them say everything over again. And so
Oh, really? Listening
is a key skill. Yeah.
And then you're currently serving as a stake
relief study president. Before that, you were a
ward relief study president. Did you go from
the ward level to the stake level directly?
I did.
Nice. Yeah. And was that a tough adjustment?
It's still an adjustment.
I've been in the ward level about three
years, and,
and our state president was going out
and wanted to refresh
some things for the new one coming in,
which didn't make sense to me, but,
you know, he called the new stake primary
president and a young woman's president and me,
and then he was done.
So we're all new. I guess maybe maybe
that was helpful.
We don't we don't I don't know what
we're doing. So Yeah. Yeah.
Which I guess sometimes that that's a benefit.
Other times, it makes it more difficult. Yeah.
Nice. Yeah. Very good. And, maybe just explain
the the demographics of your stake, how it's
laid out in on the map and thing
I wanna say we have
a five hour boundary in the stake to
go from one tip between five and six
hours, I think. It's fairly large geographically,
very spread out. The state center is kind
of in the middle.
It extends West of Fort Worth, not quite
to Amarillo,
and it goes north,
and
and then it goes way south. It's very
large.
Wow. Yeah. And so does that make, you
know, visiting different wards pretty complicated?
It's tough when you're trying to do the
word conference schedules and Mhmm. You know? But
it's okay. It's alright. They they're pretty good
about combining, like, if there's two words in
the building, we'll do both of those at
the same time. But Oh, wow. Yeah. It's
nice.
And and then do you do you try
and
make regular visits different words, or are your
counselor spread out as well to help out?
Actually, we're kind of in the hub in
the middle, so we're all
we would all have to travel a little
bit.
Like I said, we're new. So we mostly
we're trying to finish word conferences
before
the summer, June, July, August months.
But, like, I do have an issue in
a word, and after general conference, I'll be
traveling south. So, yes, we do try to
visit. Awesome.
Well, and anything else
as far as the
the uniqueness of your area, your ward, your
stake, anything else that would be worth mentioning?
It's very rural in some spots.
Cowboy capital of the world, I think, is
in one of the wards, and
I'm trying to think of some of the
other fun stuff. It's a great place. There's
just Texas is big, and in the main
city, sometimes there's a lot of highway.
So that's mostly
So is the I've gotta ask. Is the
cowboy capital of the world, actual city or
Yes. Stephenville.
Yeah. They have, like, the cutting horses, and
they train them down there. So If you
need a good rodeo, maybe they have that.
Yes. Yes. Lots of rodeo. Carlton is the
a and m school down. There's the sister
school, and they,
they have the rodeo. They compete in the
rodeos. Yeah. Interesting. Alright. Super fun. I have
six boys, and they thoroughly enjoyed the rodeo
aspect of cowboy aspect
of living here. So yeah.
That's awesome. Well, you you sent me a
few principles that we'll sort of explore here
that's maybe served you well.
And, feel free to jump back and forth
from stories from your time as on the
word level or the stake level. I think,
be beneficial all around. But the first one
being one that I think we all think
about, but it's maybe more complicated
than we'd like to make it, and that
is delegating.
How do you go about delegating, or what's
your thoughts around delegation?
I,
I'm
very busy. And,
when they extended both calls to me, you
know, you always think how am I gonna
do this? I'm always happy to serve.
I have seven children.
I work more than full time.
My husband works.
My children are very involved in
events and activities.
And so,
I,
coming out of COVID when I was called,
you know, said
I'm gonna need lots of help. And, I
commute to Dallas,
from where I live, and it's 70 miles
one way
for the job and then another 70 miles
home.
So,
I just am not home a lot. So
I knew that if I was going to
be able to do this, I needed lots
of help. So
President Kimball had three counselors, so I asked
for three counselors.
Oh, really? I got three counselors. Yep. Oh,
cool. And, put one over ministering,
one over welfare,
and one over the just servant activities, and
that worked really well.
And then, I had two secretaries.
I just had a big board. I had
emergency preparedness person. I had,
ministering secretaries.
I just had I mean, the more more
hands in the pile are the lighter the
work. Right?
So
when you get a good rhythm going, and
when you deviate the responsibilities,
it flowed very smoothly. So, yeah, definitely,
the more people you can involve in your
calling, you know, I know the church just
released
update to the general handbook,
indicating
more callings that are available under the relief
side heading.
So I'm not saying I invented the callings,
but some of mine are in there.
Nice.
You're a little bit ahead of the curve
there. That's great.
Yeah. And then, you know, we I I
love a good out of the box idea,
but I love it even more when it's
very simple. You know, actually, just call another
or get more people involved. Right. And that's,
will help a lot with delegation because sometimes
it could feel like, wow. You know, all
of our plates are full. Yes. Who who
who can take one more thing rather than
You know, I've only been to do just
a little bit, and it's so fun to
work together and have that, you know, rubbing
our working our shoulders together, whatever that song
is. But, the work gets done. So yeah.
Yeah. That's awesome. Is there any other,
dynamic to that? It'd be worth mentioning as
far as having three counselors. I mean, is
it just or just basically more people are
involved? More people are involved. There actually isn't
a
computer
spot for it. So you can't click on
as, like, a third counselor as a calling.
But
one ward, you know, has a very large
Spanish contingency, and we're actually counseling with the
president there to have a
counselor over the Spanish ladies in the Relief
Society. So
like I said, president Kimball was able to
do it. Or Yeah. Yeah. So well, so
tell me about the skill sets. So what
what are you doing? You guys skill sets?
Skill sets,
like, I'm a piano player,
and it's not my thing,
But my mom
gave me that gift through piano lessons. And
when you when you like a typical Latter
day Saint,
a praying. Convert. So this is, like, all
new exciting to her. But when you move
to different wards and they find out you're
a piano player, like, that's your calling.
And so I literally would spend my whole
life being a piano organ player, and to
me, that's not a calling. So that's a
skill set I have. I'm happy to share
it.
And so in terms of being a leader
in the ward, people have those kind of
skill sets, but it it shouldn't be like
a calling. It should just be when you
need that skill set. So I love the
umbrella of the church
social services program. It's life help, and they
put everything under there, like, mental health, pregnancy,
emergency preparedness,
finances,
anything anything that helps you with
a non spiritual side of life.
And so
I
just asked some people that had specific skill
sets. They would be on my life help
committee. They're really good with finances. You do
this for a job. If we have an
individual that needs some counseling, would you be
able to help?
Or you have all the muscles. You have
trailers. You have trucks. You have a lot
of boys. Can we put you on the
moving committee? You know?
And just activate the life help committee when
you need some help, you know, depending on
what the skill set is. So Yeah. It
doesn't have to be a calling per se.
You can be a committee member, but I'm
fully,
all about using
skills and talents that people have
when there's a need. And don't don't reinvent
the wheel.
Don't make someone learn about finances because you
want them to be a finance person unless
that's really inspired or something. But if you
have a short term need, use someone that
has finances. So yeah. Yeah. That's great. You
know, almost like a, you know, a Bishop
storehouse or at least study storehouse of skills.
Right? Yeah. And you might as well drop
on them. Yeah. Like And they already exist.
If you have a tornado, you want the
guys that have the chainsaws, right, to come
out and help people get cut out of
their
trees that have fallen down. You're not gonna
be calling Sister Jones on a walker. You
know? Hey. Yeah.
Better learn how to use a chainsaw.
Yes. That's your calling. Oh, that's interesting.
And is there a specific way you, like,
gather that information? Do you survey people? Do
you just ask around? Or If I was
new in the word, I would definitely have
to do that. You know, we've been here
ten years. So
three, four years ago, I was comfortable,
you know, knowing who did what, what their
jobs were. You can always ask. Counselors know.
You know? You have a nice list under
that life help umbrella, and if you just
go down, people will give you the names
that you need. Yeah. And, I'm currently serving
as elders corps president. I actually tried this
this past Sunday from when we're recording as
far as,
basically, it's for our beginning council session. I
said, let's let's process
what what's the skill set that you have
that you could bring to the ward or
make available because,
you know, there's all sorts of different, you
know, skill sets. And then, then I also
said and also
articulate
what boundary you have there. Right? So you
may be an electrician and someone's having an
electrical issue. Yeah. You'll come take a look
and see if you can diagnose it. But
if,
you know, that person isn't going to, you
know, wire your entire basement, you know, if
you're refinishing your basement or something. Right? Oh,
no. Just because some advice and, you know,
help them get through that. Yeah. So I
I just love, like, engaging people with that
of saying, you know, what do you have
to offer? Because there's a lot of things
I have that, you know, I'm happy to
offer, but a lot of times people don't
think of it or they don't they're not
aware of it. Right. You know? So Right.
So digging that stuff out is super fun
when you learn that about people. We we
would try to do
I don't know. Maybe the first year we
did a get to know you, and we'd
have them stand up and try to ask
some of those leading questions. What do you
like to do? What do you wish you
could do? You know, just to get to
know them better, but we can use that
as a venue to add to your skill
sets. That's cool. Yeah. Any anything else around
skill sets, or do we cover it pretty
well? That's pretty good. Yeah.
But just knowing the skill sets that you
have
and when it's needed does make your job
easier. Is that dog Yeah. The c two
out? No. It's fine. People know you're human
and you have dogs.
So there's a real person here. Yeah.
Alright. Next principle, tell me about inclusion. What
do you mean by inclusion?
Just finding a way to include everybody. So
when my parents were investigating the church in
Massachusetts,
My mom
loved it, but she would not progress without
my dad
who was
a chain smoking, drinking,
gamble on the weekends, law enforcement
guy.
And, so she said, I'll go to church
without you until you can, you know, catch
up kind of thing. Well, he got tired
of sitting on one of his few days
off at home alone for the go to
church, come back, go back to church, come
back, you know that extended three hour block
meeting, and so he finally started going. But
you know,
do you remember that talk by,
President Hinckley?
Every member every convert needs a friend responsibility.
And the nourishment of the good word of
God. Yeah. He was talking about my dad.
He had learned my father's Convergent story
and that, yes. So my dad was called
without being a member
an assistant scout master
and so he would go off on, you
know, mutual night and do things with the
boys, made some friends,
he would go off on camp outs, bond
some more
and,
and so I fully believe because not everybody
is ready to go to the temple and
relief society and maybe some can't even have
callings, but they can have a kind of
calling.
So everybody could have a job and be
included
no matter what
spot they are on the covenant path, and
so I'm eternally grateful obviously for that little
branch in Massachusetts
that
befriended my parents.
Yeah. So I I have to ask, do
you know how president Hinckley found out about
your dad and his his conversion? Or
President Hinckley loved my father. He was a
police chief in Massachusetts,
and often he would come to do, like,
regional
youth firesides
or,
trying to find land for the Boston temple.
Oh, wow. And liked driving with my dad
because he had put on the lights for
him and go a little faster.
Inside adrenaline junkies or something. I don't know.
They they felt the need for speed. They're
funny together. They both love to laugh. They
have the same kind of humor. He just
loved my father,
in the limited contact that he had, but
he did come out looking for the Hartford,
Connecticut
land, and they were very frustrated.
Every time they would find a plot, they
would find an Indian artifact or they would
find some extinct animal or an endangered animal,
and so they met as a
regional
coordinating council, I think, of state presidents. And
my dad said, well,
one of my units he was a state
president. One of my units has some land
behind the chapel. Well, let's go. And he
hopped in the car and anyway, so that's
how it came out. He asked my father.
So by the time your father met him,
your your father had been baptized and was
in a church family? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
Fascinating. Love love those backstories. I appreciate you
sharing that.
And anything else around inclusion that we haven't
hit on? So just use use everybody. Everybody
wants a job. Everybody needs a job, and
you make friends when you work together. So
yeah. No. That's a great great thing to
do when you're in leadership position. Don't try
to do it by yourself at all. There's
so many people out there that can
maybe even do it better than you, but
you won't know. Yeah.
And then, finally, tell me about instruction. How
do you implement instruction as a relief study
president?
I
I am not a,
have desert book stuff all over my walls
kind of member. I'm not in Utah.
Sometimes I feel like I'm not a normal
member. I don't know,
but I love the gospel,
and I think you just need to be
you.
And what the gospel is to me might
help somebody else, you know,
in my area. So,
I share
experiences
kind of like Jesus did. You know, he
had parables
that were related to the people he was
teaching,
and
I think that's a great way to get
a
gospel principle across.
So my father was very good at this,
and he would have
little lessons on turning anything into an analogy
or a parable related to a gospel principle.
And,
and when you and and the the general
authorities do it, you know, they'll take something
that happens in their lives or family members'
lives, and they'll use that as the beginning
or foundation of their talk and expand from
there. So
that's kind of what I mean by the
instruction that you give. You know? Everyone has
something to offer. You don't feel like you
don't have anything to offer. I love teachers
that can stand up there and share something
that's so difficult in their lives
and what got them through it. You know?
It makes it very real. So
make your instruction
when you instruct just very real
and use you. Because if you're using you,
then
it's true.
I'm not, like, using somebody else's story. It's
me. You know? And
That's right. And and I love that,
reference to, like, Christ and his parables of,
you know, often he used parables as as
we know. He used parables that were very
applicable to the common man of his time.
Right? Okay. So I feel like I need
to give you an example. Here's an example.
Let's say when I am working up in
Dallas, there's stuff that's dropped on the freeway
all the time. I didn't say the most
common
debris
on the freeway is mattresses,
maybe followed by or maybe actually metal ladders,
construction ladders, and then mattresses.
My guess. Yeah. Ladders, mattresses, and then, like,
furniture,
like washing machines, refrigerators,
just stuff that drops. And when you get
those traffic hazards on the highways and people
are going seventy, eighty miles an hour and
then when
there's, you know, this
obstruction,
it can be very dangerous. So we try
to respond very quickly
and get the debris moved off the highway.
It keeps the traffic flowing. It keeps people
safe, you know?
And,
I don't know. Well, let's see. Pick a
topic. We can relate it to repentance,
you know, trying to get the debris,
big or small objects, and the damage it
might do if we encounter the, you know,
big debris like pornography or a little debris
like,
not thinking kind thoughts about my spouse
or something. I don't know. You know? You
know, you've got to get that debris off
those arteries.
You know, the clogged highways.
I don't know if that was kind of
the cook one. Yeah. And so you're always
kinda looking for those those real life examples.
Yes. Number one, it makes everybody kinda sit
up and listen, you know, and they always
wanna know the end of the story, I
guess. So Yeah. That's true. I mean, I
was kinda curious what the most common items
were. So
that's great.
Awesome. Well, any other point principle, story, concept
we need to make sure we cover before
we wrap up or I
love that we get
instruction
from
the general leaders of the church,
and
I think especially as you are in leadership
positions,
it gives you a framework
that maybe you don't have if you're all
by yourself. Right?
So we have,
general conference.
We recently had the Relief Society broadcast,
and
I I I I'm old. I've been doing
those for a long time.
And,
they said something
I have never
heard before.
And, and you can go listen, but they
talked about how,
Relief Society is
an ancient
order
of women.
And ancient to me doesn't mean Joseph Smith
time.
It means
ancient.
So like Jesus Christ time. And I just
love that concept that women were working together
way before the church was reorganized. Never really
thought about that.
And that makes what we do even
bigger
to me, you know, to have that much
history behind women serving and working together. So
I love that. I love that we have
that instruction,
that can give us like little inspired moments,
maybe direction of where we need to lead
or,
you know,
help with issues that we may be having.
I just love
that we can gather together and get some
inspiration
on a regular basis.
So Yeah. Take advantage of it.
Love it. Well, this has been great, Amy
Jo. I appreciate you, sharing your perspective and
the uniqueness of your area and the the
all the tips and tricks and and it's
been awesome. So last question I have for
you is you reflect on your time as
a leader both on the ward level and
now on the stake level. How has being
a leader helped you become a better follower
of Jesus Christ?
I would say this right off the bat,
because in a leadership position, you are more
aware of others' struggles
that,
you are privy to.
And, and then in a state position, you
have multiple units with multiple,
you know, individuals
where you are given information
where people are struggling or how they're struggling
or,
whatever. And,
number one,
grateful for my own trials and tribulations and
struggles, and,
you know, what they go through is way
more than I would want to go through.
And I think most people feel that way,
but then you look at them and think
how are they doing it, you know? And
I know that,
watching people
succeed
through these issues,
Because of the Gospel is a
testimony builder and helps me become a more
avid follower of Jesus
Christ.
I
I am a
mimicker. Like, if I see something I like,
then I'll copy it. So if I see
someone go through struggles
and figure out or talk to them or
figure out,
like, what they're doing and how they did
it and what helped them get through it,
then I wanna know so I can apply
that in my life too. So I think
being a leader and watching others
come through the other end of difficulties is
very rewarding
and cements
the beliefs that I have more.
And that concludes this How I Lead
interview. I hope you enjoyed it. And, I
would ask you, could you take a minute
and drop this link in an email, on
social media, in a text, wherever it makes
the most sense, and share it with somebody
who could relate to this experience. And this
is how we develop as leaders, just hearing
what the other guy is doing, trying some
things out, testing, adjusting
for your area, and,
that's where great leadership's discovered. Right? So we
would love to have you, share this with,
somebody in this calling or a related calling,
and that would be great. And also if
you know somebody,
any type of leader who would be a
fantastic guest on the how I lead segment,
reach out to us. Go to leadingsaints.org/contact.
Maybe send this in individual an email letting
them know that you're going to be suggesting
their name for this interview. We'll reach out
to them and,
see if we can line them up. So,
again, go to leadingsaints.org/contact,
and there you can submit all the information
and let us know. And maybe they will
be on a future How I Lead segment
on the Leading Saints podcast.
Remember, up your teaching game by listening to
the David Farnsworth presentation by visiting leadingsaints.org/fourteen.
It came as a result of the position
of leadership which was imposed upon us
by the God of heaven who brought forth
a restoration
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And when the declaration
was made concerning the only
true and living Church upon the face of
the earth,
We were immediately put in a position of
loneliness,
the loneliness of leadership
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,
and to which we must face up with
boldness and courage
and
ability.