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Let's be honest. Few humans enjoy meetings, and

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many feel trapped in meetings.

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As leaders, we don't want to burden those

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we lead, but meetings can seem to do

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that more often than not.

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We wanted to address the pain of meetings

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through the meetings with saints library.

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Here we have 15 plus presentations

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dedicated to improving the meetings we run. We

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have experts in the field addressing topics like

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getting people involved in meetings, staying on task,

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dealing with conflict in meetings, and a ton

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more. We'd love you to explore the full

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meetings with saints library over 14

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at no cost to you. You can do

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this by visiting leadingsaints.org/fourteen.

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That's leadingsaints.org/1four.

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We'll also give you access to all of

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our virtual libraries that educate about other leadership

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topics. It's really good stuff. So visit leadingsaints.org/14

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or click the link in the show notes.

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The following episode is a throwback episode, one

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that was published previously and was extremely popular.

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To see the details of when this was

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originally published, see the show notes. Enjoy this

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throwback episode.

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Welcome back to another episode of the Leading

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Saints podcast. My name is Kurt Frankem, and

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I will be your host. Now if you're

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new to Leading Saints, we are a five

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zero one c three nonprofit organization

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with a mission to help Latter day Saints

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be better prepared to lead and do that

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through various ways, and one of those is

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this podcast. So I hope that you subscribe.

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Like a good podcaster, I should tell you

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to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or

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wherever you listen to this, and that helps

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where people find this. But really the best

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way for people to find this resource is

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for you to drop a link into an

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email and send it to someone you know

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or share on social media is wherever it

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is. So we're glad you're here. We're glad

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you found us. However it is you you

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found us,

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what matters is that you're here. And in

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this episode, we talk with Ryan Gofferson. And

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Ryan is a good friend of mine who

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I've actually met through the leading saints audience.

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Years ago, he started writing articles and contributing

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written content to the website, and you find

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a lot of his articles

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at leadingsaints.org,

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which are phenomenal and,

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so

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inspiring and thought provoking

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that your time would be well spent by

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going to leadingsaints.org

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and and finding some of those articles that

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he's written. But speaking of writing, he's actually

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written a new book called Success Mindset,

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your keys to unlocking greater success in your

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life, work, and leadership,

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and I would add in your church experience

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as well. Now Ryan is a PhD.

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In fact, I'll just read his bio from

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the book. It says, Ryan Godfersen, PhD, is

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a mental success coach and cutting edge leadership

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consultant, author, trainer, and researcher. He helps improve

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organizations, leaders, teams, and employees by improving their

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mindsets.

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Ryan is currently

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a leadership and management professor at the Mihaylo

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College of Business and Economics at the California

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State University, Fullerton. He holds a PhD in

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organizational behavior and human resources from Indiana University

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and a BA from Brigham Young University. He's

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also a former consultant for Gallup Inc, where

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he helped dozens of organizations improve engagement

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of their employees,

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As a respected authority and researcher on the

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topic related to leadership, management, and organizational behavior,

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Ryan has published over 15 articles in a

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variety of journals.

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His research has been cited over 1,700 times

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since 02/2014,

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and you can find him at ryangodfersen.com.

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So this interview,

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in his book, I read every word of

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it. It's a phenomenal book. I'll do more

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of an explanation as we start the interview

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with Ryan, but such a key component of

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leadership is mindsets,

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And we're gonna discover why with Ryan Godfersen.

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So here is my interview with Ryan Godfersen,

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the author of Success Mindsets.

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Welcome back to another session of the Meetings

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with Saints virtual summit. This is, I don't

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know what what I'm gonna call this, a

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simulcast, whatever. We're gonna push this interview not

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only on the virtual summit, but also on

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the podcast because it's gonna be just that

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good, folks. And that's because my guest is

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Ryan Godfordsen. How are you, Ryan? Doing great.

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You're putting the pressure on Kurt. Oh, that's

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what I do best with you, Ryan. I

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expect the highest from you, and you never

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disappoint.

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People may recognize your name. You've you've been

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a contributor to Leading Saints for for years

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now. It probably is. And you've written articles

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and done other interviews on other summits and

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podcast episodes, and we just keep having you

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back because we have not squozing your brain

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enough to get more knowledge out. So I'm

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glad you're here, and you're here because

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you just wrote a book. Right? I did.

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Yeah. I I really appreciate

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the opportunities you've given me to essentially trust

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me to put my material in front of

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your audience. It means a lot, and and

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it's an audience that I love working with.

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Well, it's, the the especially with these concepts,

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your research, they're so applicable to the Latter

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day Saint leadership experience, and so I can't

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help but have you back. And and I

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first wanna just congratulate you on writing this

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book, which is called Success Mindset.

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And, I know there's a lot of work

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that goes into writing a book, and I

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read it for various reasons. One, we're gonna

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do this interview, and two, you're my friend,

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and I wanna understand the research you're doing.

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But, like,

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removing my bias, this was a fantastic book.

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Like, you did a phenomenal job with this

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book, and it's a book that every leaders

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especially

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and really anybody would benefit from. So congratulations

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on getting this out there and doing it.

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This will I'm sure it was a labor

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of love. It was a really great process,

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and I'm really happy with the book. And

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now that it's out, I'm starting to get

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feedback from people really all over the world

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that are commenting on it. And I'm I'm

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really blessed to hear that it's been all

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positive feedback. I think people who don't like

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it, they're not gonna contact me, so I'm

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surely giving you biased perspective.

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But, I mean, I think one of the

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reasons why I ultimately

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wrote the book is I probably needed the

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messages just as much as anybody else. Right.

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Yeah. And my life has been changed because

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of

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the principles that we talk about in the

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book, and I wanna help others do the

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same. Yeah. And the thing is is, like,

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the reason I loved it so much is,

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you know, in a lay ministry in the

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church,

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and I get the chance to interact with

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leaders across the world,

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they a lot of times you're called as

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a bishop or a real estate president. You're

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like, you don't even know where to start.

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Right? Yeah. We can talk about interviews. We

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can talk about how to run a class,

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whatever. But I would say, like, if there's

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any place a person should start before you

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can really have impact as a leader, you've

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gotta get your mindset right. And so that's

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why I appreciate by this resource is it

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gives a leader a place to start, and

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you can continue to to revisit these principles

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as you continue leading. Yeah. Because what we

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reveal is that mindsets are foundational to everything

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that we do. And maybe let me give

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you a an example from a real world

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situation.

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Yeah. So are are you much of a

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football fan, Kurt? College football? I'm a season

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ticket holder. Right? Oh, me too. I'm alright.

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You. Go cougars.

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But I'm gonna jump to the NFL. Okay.

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So Tom Coughlin is the former head coach

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of the New York Giants. He won two

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Super Bowls when he was with the New

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York Giants, so rather successful head coach. Well,

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when he stepped down, he went over to

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the Jacksonville Jaguars as the president of operations.

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And I don't know how familiar you are

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with the Jacksonville Jaguars, but historically, they've been

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a pretty terrible team. Yeah. That's why I'm

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not familiar with that.

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So you've got to anticipate that here's the

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successful head coach moving over to the Jacksonville

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Jaguars. He's gotta be thinking, I wanna turn

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this ship around, and I wanna leave a

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lasting legacy for myself. And I think a

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lot of times when we receive callings, particularly

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leadership callings within the church, we're in a

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similar position as Tom Coughlin. We wanna come

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in and have a have a positive

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influence

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on the people that we're leading and serving.

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But the thing here's the thing that's interesting

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about Tom Coughlin, is he comes in, and

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he's kinda known to be a disciplinarian.

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In fact, he's almost Vince Lombardi esque because

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he would say, if you're on time, you're

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late. You're only on time if you're five

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minutes early. And he would even put all

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of the clocks five minutes fast in all

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of their facilities.

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And then there were some fines associated with

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being late. So, you know, this gives you

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some of the dynamics that were going on

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when he was a leader there. Well, this

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last football season, the NFL Players Association came

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out with a report and they said, okay,

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the Jacksonville Jaguars

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represent 3% of the NFL in terms of

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their players because there's 32 teams. But 25%

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of all of the complaints that have come

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into the Players Association

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have come from the Jacksonville Jaguars.

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So 3% is driving 25%

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of the complaints, and it's all connected back

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to Tom Coughlin and the policies that he

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had implemented.

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And the

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players association came out and said,

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publicly, we cannot recommend that any players play

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for the Jacksonville Jaguars.

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Ouch. Like, so here's the situation where the

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owner is now forced to fire Tom Coughlin

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because he's created a situation

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that has actually had a negative effect on

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the organization.

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So here's this unique situation. A leader is

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coming in with all of the best intentions

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in the world. I think we've got to

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believe that. And at the end of the

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day, he creates

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a worse atmosphere

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than when he set started out. Yeah. And

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and so

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when we dive into the ideas of mindsets,

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what we're exploring is why is this? Why

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is it somebody

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can have the best intentions in the world,

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yet still have negative effects? You know, we've

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got to believe that Tom Coughlin was trying

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the best that he could. Mhmm. And we've

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got to believe that leaders in general are

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trying the best that we can in terms

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of, particularly, church leaders. But yet we see

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statistics such as sixty percent of employees

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say that their leaders damage their self esteem.

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Like I don't think leaders go to work

264
00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:15,339
saying, I want to damage my employees' self

265
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esteem, just that sometimes the lenses that we're

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using to view the world

267
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prevents us from operating

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as our ideal selves. Yeah. And I I

269
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love that example because he has a proven,

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00:10:26,225 --> 00:10:28,225
like, a success track record. Like, he he's

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won two Super Bowls. Right? Of course, you

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you want him to come to your organization

273
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and hopefully turn it around. But, again, it's

274
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just these best intentions, and this happens a

275
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lot in the church as well. Like, nobody

276
00:10:38,090 --> 00:10:40,590
comes in, like, I'm gonna totally just, like,

277
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shame everybody as a bishop, and I hope

278
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I hope half the world go half the

279
00:10:44,410 --> 00:10:46,855
ward goes inactive while I'm in like, nobody

280
00:10:46,855 --> 00:10:48,214
does that. Right? We all come in like,

281
00:10:48,214 --> 00:10:49,815
this is a great opportunity. I think I

282
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can really make a difference. And this is

283
00:10:52,054 --> 00:10:54,074
it reminds me of my, first leadership

284
00:10:54,454 --> 00:10:56,615
calling as an elders quorum president in the

285
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YSA ward where I met my wife, and

286
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I walked into that thinking, wow. This is

287
00:11:00,759 --> 00:11:02,679
this is gonna be great. I'm gonna try

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really hard and really have an impact. And

289
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I remember leaving it like, man, I I

290
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feel everything all my statistics went down. Like,

291
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,225
there wasn't this big I moment. Like, nobody

292
00:11:13,225 --> 00:11:14,904
probably remembers my name, and and it was

293
00:11:14,904 --> 00:11:17,225
sort of discouraging. So the best intentions don't

294
00:11:17,225 --> 00:11:19,384
always mean that you have the best mindset

295
00:11:19,384 --> 00:11:20,985
in place or your the mindset's in a

296
00:11:20,985 --> 00:11:23,304
place where you're gonna lead to success. Right?

297
00:11:23,304 --> 00:11:25,304
Yep. Correct. So where where do we begin

298
00:11:25,304 --> 00:11:26,445
with just understanding

299
00:11:27,069 --> 00:11:28,049
laying a foundation

300
00:11:28,990 --> 00:11:30,750
of mindsets? Because a lot of time, if

301
00:11:30,750 --> 00:11:32,509
you walk up to a random person and

302
00:11:32,509 --> 00:11:34,589
say, I wrote a book about mindset, it

303
00:11:34,589 --> 00:11:36,990
could they could interpret that in a variety

304
00:11:36,990 --> 00:11:39,730
of different ways. Right? Yeah. So our mindsets,

305
00:11:39,789 --> 00:11:41,870
as we kinda just described them, are our

306
00:11:41,870 --> 00:11:43,845
mental lenses that shape how we view the

307
00:11:43,845 --> 00:11:46,485
world around us. So in terms of even

308
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a neuropsychological

309
00:11:47,924 --> 00:11:48,424
perspective,

310
00:11:48,965 --> 00:11:51,144
is when we encounter a situation,

311
00:11:51,605 --> 00:11:54,725
our senses are sending all sorts of stimuli

312
00:11:54,725 --> 00:11:57,410
to our brain. And our brain can't process

313
00:11:57,410 --> 00:11:59,649
all that information. So it relies upon our

314
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mindsets to do two things, filter in specific

315
00:12:03,009 --> 00:12:03,509
information

316
00:12:04,129 --> 00:12:04,790
and then

317
00:12:05,170 --> 00:12:08,504
interpret that information in unique ways. So it's

318
00:12:08,504 --> 00:12:10,985
our mindsets that cause, let's just say, two

319
00:12:10,985 --> 00:12:13,404
different leaders to see the same situation

320
00:12:13,865 --> 00:12:16,764
but interpret it completely differently. And

321
00:12:17,225 --> 00:12:20,425
most of the work that our mindsets do

322
00:12:20,425 --> 00:12:22,264
in terms of its effects on our thinking,

323
00:12:22,264 --> 00:12:23,245
learning, and behavior

324
00:12:23,580 --> 00:12:24,480
occurs nonconsciously.

325
00:12:25,019 --> 00:12:26,160
Like, we're not conscious

326
00:12:26,620 --> 00:12:28,779
of the fact that we are seeing the

327
00:12:28,779 --> 00:12:31,180
world in a certain way and that's different

328
00:12:31,180 --> 00:12:33,980
from somebody else, and that has really important

329
00:12:33,980 --> 00:12:34,480
implications.

330
00:12:34,940 --> 00:12:37,200
But if we can awaken to our mindsets,

331
00:12:37,535 --> 00:12:39,955
then we become empowered to see the world

332
00:12:40,095 --> 00:12:42,735
in better ways. Does that make sense? Yeah.

333
00:12:42,735 --> 00:12:44,735
Yeah. And and maybe what's an example that

334
00:12:44,735 --> 00:12:47,475
comes to mind that that would help people

335
00:12:47,615 --> 00:12:49,934
understand, like, an an anecdote that that we

336
00:12:49,934 --> 00:12:51,535
could better explain that one? For sure. I'm

337
00:12:51,535 --> 00:12:53,075
glad you asked. So

338
00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:56,139
let me give you an example of seeing

339
00:12:56,139 --> 00:12:57,440
somebody who is homeless.

340
00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:00,220
And in fact, I just read a statistic.

341
00:13:00,220 --> 00:13:02,540
I'm in Southern California. Half of The United

342
00:13:02,540 --> 00:13:05,580
States Homeless population is in California. Wow. Which

343
00:13:05,580 --> 00:13:07,580
I think is incredible. But what that means

344
00:13:07,580 --> 00:13:10,065
for me is on almost a daily basis,

345
00:13:10,065 --> 00:13:12,225
I come across a homeless person asking for

346
00:13:12,225 --> 00:13:12,725
assistance.

347
00:13:13,264 --> 00:13:15,825
And how do let's ask ourselves, how do

348
00:13:15,825 --> 00:13:18,625
you see people who are asking for assistance

349
00:13:18,625 --> 00:13:20,945
on a street corner? Do you see them

350
00:13:20,945 --> 00:13:23,370
as not doing their best, or do you

351
00:13:23,370 --> 00:13:25,769
see them as doing their best? Now this

352
00:13:25,769 --> 00:13:28,970
has rather profound implications because if we don't

353
00:13:28,970 --> 00:13:30,410
see them as doing their best, and I'll

354
00:13:30,410 --> 00:13:32,649
be honest, I'm ashamed to admit this, for

355
00:13:32,649 --> 00:13:34,250
most of my adult life, I would see

356
00:13:34,250 --> 00:13:35,790
them as not doing their best.

357
00:13:36,215 --> 00:13:38,375
And I would quickly become critical. I would

358
00:13:38,375 --> 00:13:40,455
think, why are you asking me for my

359
00:13:40,455 --> 00:13:42,375
hard earned money when you're just standing there

360
00:13:42,375 --> 00:13:43,434
asking for assistance?

361
00:13:43,894 --> 00:13:45,735
Why don't you do something more productive with

362
00:13:45,735 --> 00:13:47,434
your time? Maybe go get a job.

363
00:13:47,815 --> 00:13:49,675
Mhmm. Right? What's my likelihood

364
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:53,850
of navigating that situation effectively and navigating it

365
00:13:54,070 --> 00:13:55,910
in a way that lives up to my

366
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:59,269
ideal self? Well, it's probably limited. But if

367
00:13:59,269 --> 00:14:01,830
I see them as doing their best, it

368
00:14:01,830 --> 00:14:03,509
leads me to ask the question, what in

369
00:14:03,509 --> 00:14:05,504
the world has happened in their life that

370
00:14:05,504 --> 00:14:07,184
has led them to believe that this is

371
00:14:07,184 --> 00:14:09,665
the best way to live? Now I quickly

372
00:14:09,665 --> 00:14:10,644
become empathetic,

373
00:14:11,585 --> 00:14:13,665
and I'm much more likely to handle that

374
00:14:13,665 --> 00:14:16,225
situation more successfully and live up to my

375
00:14:16,225 --> 00:14:17,205
ideal self.

376
00:14:17,759 --> 00:14:20,160
And so what this demonstrates is that how

377
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:20,899
we see

378
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,200
our world and how we see others shapes

379
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,200
how we think about them, how we behave

380
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,340
towards them, and how success successfully we navigate

381
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:29,620
those situations.

382
00:14:30,345 --> 00:14:31,945
And so I think as a church leader,

383
00:14:31,945 --> 00:14:33,304
a lot of times we have people that

384
00:14:33,304 --> 00:14:35,404
are coming to us with problems and issues,

385
00:14:35,865 --> 00:14:36,365
or

386
00:14:36,745 --> 00:14:39,644
maybe conflict, something that they don't like.

387
00:14:40,345 --> 00:14:42,105
How do we see them? Do we see

388
00:14:42,105 --> 00:14:44,284
them as, oh, you're not doing your best

389
00:14:44,649 --> 00:14:46,730
because we're gonna become critical of them? Or

390
00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:49,610
do we explore the situation saying, what in

391
00:14:49,610 --> 00:14:51,549
the world is going on in your life

392
00:14:51,769 --> 00:14:54,250
that has led you to kinda believe or

393
00:14:54,250 --> 00:14:56,110
act the way that you're you're acting?

394
00:14:57,105 --> 00:14:59,184
And now that we explore that, we're able

395
00:14:59,184 --> 00:15:00,404
to see them as people

396
00:15:00,945 --> 00:15:03,684
and and better navigate that situation.

397
00:15:04,304 --> 00:15:05,745
Yeah. And and it really goes back to

398
00:15:05,745 --> 00:15:07,825
what like you said, what lenses are we

399
00:15:07,825 --> 00:15:09,264
seeing the world through? And and I'm gonna

400
00:15:09,264 --> 00:15:11,389
flip your example a little bit because oftentimes

401
00:15:11,450 --> 00:15:13,710
the emails that I get at Leading Saints

402
00:15:13,930 --> 00:15:16,410
are, Kurt, like, what can I do about

403
00:15:16,410 --> 00:15:18,570
my leader, my bishop, my release I mean,

404
00:15:18,570 --> 00:15:21,129
he's a mess? Like, he just doesn't get

405
00:15:21,129 --> 00:15:23,370
it. Right? And so we often look at

406
00:15:23,370 --> 00:15:25,434
our leaders and we can ask the question,

407
00:15:25,434 --> 00:15:27,355
do we see them as doing their very

408
00:15:27,355 --> 00:15:29,434
best and be like, no way. Like, I

409
00:15:29,434 --> 00:15:31,835
can name five things that I know for

410
00:15:31,835 --> 00:15:34,475
sure that they're just completely ignoring and they

411
00:15:34,475 --> 00:15:36,154
should give more attention to, but they just

412
00:15:36,154 --> 00:15:37,919
don't want to. They're lazy. They're right?

413
00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:40,240
We sort of project our lens on other

414
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,159
people and to fill in the the gaps

415
00:15:42,159 --> 00:15:44,320
when in reality, we have we have no

416
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:45,839
evidence that you could take into a court

417
00:15:45,839 --> 00:15:46,980
of law and prove

418
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,679
some of these assumptions you make as an

419
00:15:49,679 --> 00:15:52,019
individual. Right? So it really starts with understanding

420
00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:53,379
what lens

421
00:15:53,804 --> 00:15:55,804
are is it we're looking through. Yep. For

422
00:15:55,804 --> 00:15:57,965
sure. And you're you're exactly right. It goes

423
00:15:57,965 --> 00:15:59,965
both ways. Yep. So,

424
00:16:00,764 --> 00:16:02,605
so as a leader, like and and the

425
00:16:02,605 --> 00:16:04,684
thing is and you, go over this in

426
00:16:04,684 --> 00:16:07,230
your book that we all like, there's nobody

427
00:16:07,230 --> 00:16:09,149
that doesn't have lenses. Like, we all have

428
00:16:09,149 --> 00:16:09,970
life experiences,

429
00:16:10,350 --> 00:16:10,850
DNA,

430
00:16:11,470 --> 00:16:13,389
you know, so many things that influence the

431
00:16:13,389 --> 00:16:15,870
lenses that you know, I'm a certain leader

432
00:16:15,870 --> 00:16:18,429
because of my childhood, because of my parents,

433
00:16:18,429 --> 00:16:20,590
because of my career and what I do

434
00:16:20,590 --> 00:16:23,054
day to day. And so we can't act

435
00:16:23,054 --> 00:16:25,134
like, well, I have some lenses, but they're

436
00:16:25,134 --> 00:16:26,654
not a big deal. Like, we all need

437
00:16:26,654 --> 00:16:29,054
a that's the first step is recognizing what

438
00:16:29,054 --> 00:16:31,375
the lens is and trying to understand how

439
00:16:31,375 --> 00:16:33,694
it is how you're perceiving the world through

440
00:16:33,694 --> 00:16:36,029
that lens. Yeah. And it's tricky because we

441
00:16:36,029 --> 00:16:37,870
all tend to think that how we see

442
00:16:37,870 --> 00:16:39,389
the world is the best way to see

443
00:16:39,389 --> 00:16:41,389
the world. Yeah. And the reason why I

444
00:16:41,389 --> 00:16:43,069
feel comfortable saying that is because if we

445
00:16:43,069 --> 00:16:45,230
thought we could see the world better, we

446
00:16:45,230 --> 00:16:47,870
would do so. Yeah. So we we are

447
00:16:47,870 --> 00:16:50,209
biased towards our perspective of the world,

448
00:16:50,565 --> 00:16:52,884
and we just may not recognize that how

449
00:16:52,884 --> 00:16:55,285
we are seeing the world just isn't the

450
00:16:55,285 --> 00:16:56,965
best way to see the world. And if

451
00:16:56,965 --> 00:16:59,524
we can awaken to that, then we become

452
00:16:59,524 --> 00:17:00,024
empowered

453
00:17:00,565 --> 00:17:03,445
to change, to improve. And so that's what's

454
00:17:03,445 --> 00:17:05,680
been so eye opening to me because as

455
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:06,740
I've gone about

456
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:07,859
my life

457
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,960
prior to learning about mindsets, is I kinda

458
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,720
thought my lenses are the best way to

459
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:13,920
see the world. And as I started to

460
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,720
learn about mindsets, I quickly realized, wow, I

461
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,980
don't have any of the positive mindsets

462
00:17:19,384 --> 00:17:22,365
that research has found to be most optimal

463
00:17:22,424 --> 00:17:23,244
for success.

464
00:17:23,625 --> 00:17:24,825
Yeah. And that was a I mean, it

465
00:17:24,825 --> 00:17:26,744
was a huge awakening. In fact, I've got

466
00:17:26,744 --> 00:17:28,605
a guy right now who's a,

467
00:17:28,984 --> 00:17:31,224
seminary teacher. He was texting me earlier today.

468
00:17:31,224 --> 00:17:33,304
I'm gonna pull it up. And and he's

469
00:17:33,304 --> 00:17:33,625
saying

470
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,440
he's reading my book, and he says, I

471
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,539
used to think that I was open minded.

472
00:17:39,599 --> 00:17:42,079
Reading the chapters about open versus closed really

473
00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:44,240
made me question that. It's hard to face.

474
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:45,940
It's professionally embarrassing.

475
00:17:46,914 --> 00:17:47,414
Like,

476
00:17:47,795 --> 00:17:49,875
I and I I respond back to him.

477
00:17:49,875 --> 00:17:51,875
I said, welcome to the club, buddy. Like

478
00:17:52,035 --> 00:17:54,775
Yeah. I've been there. Like, this sucks because

479
00:17:55,315 --> 00:17:57,555
we think that we're doing a good job,

480
00:17:57,555 --> 00:17:58,914
and we think that we're seeing the world

481
00:17:58,914 --> 00:18:01,410
in the best way, but sometimes we're blind

482
00:18:01,789 --> 00:18:04,190
to the fact that we're having negative effects

483
00:18:04,190 --> 00:18:04,850
on others.

484
00:18:05,230 --> 00:18:07,070
Yeah. And that's the thing is we have

485
00:18:07,070 --> 00:18:09,150
best intentions, so we think that I can't

486
00:18:09,150 --> 00:18:11,070
go wrong here. I mean, sure, I'll make

487
00:18:11,070 --> 00:18:13,214
mistakes, and I won't be do it perfectly,

488
00:18:13,274 --> 00:18:15,194
but I'm not gonna do any damage. But

489
00:18:15,194 --> 00:18:17,194
in reality, there's a lot of damage you

490
00:18:17,194 --> 00:18:18,794
could do with the best intentions as as

491
00:18:18,794 --> 00:18:20,954
we've as we've talked about. And and I

492
00:18:20,954 --> 00:18:23,194
just love that where I think you ask

493
00:18:23,194 --> 00:18:24,174
any person,

494
00:18:24,730 --> 00:18:26,730
you know, are you open minded? They'll generally

495
00:18:26,730 --> 00:18:28,890
say, yeah. I'm pretty open minded. But just

496
00:18:28,890 --> 00:18:31,130
starting, like, starting with the assumption even if

497
00:18:31,130 --> 00:18:32,809
you don't believe it at first, starting with

498
00:18:32,809 --> 00:18:35,369
the assumption that I'm more closed minded than

499
00:18:35,369 --> 00:18:38,109
open minded, I think that begins, like, to

500
00:18:38,329 --> 00:18:40,964
to open your mind to to see maybe

501
00:18:40,964 --> 00:18:42,724
areas that you are closed minded and how

502
00:18:42,724 --> 00:18:46,484
that's hurting your influence on others. Yeah. Yeah.

503
00:18:46,484 --> 00:18:46,984
So

504
00:18:47,605 --> 00:18:48,005
let's,

505
00:18:48,565 --> 00:18:50,565
as far as, like, take attaching this to

506
00:18:50,565 --> 00:18:52,484
to leadership, and and I'm gonna jump in

507
00:18:52,484 --> 00:18:54,005
and out of the context of meetings since

508
00:18:54,005 --> 00:18:55,859
where I'm gonna display this in the Meetings

509
00:18:55,859 --> 00:18:58,740
with Saints virtual summit. Mindset is crucial when

510
00:18:58,740 --> 00:19:00,740
you walk in, when you're when you're in

511
00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:02,039
a culture of meetings,

512
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:04,680
regardless of what meeting is, but especially

513
00:19:05,220 --> 00:19:07,460
when you're in a council meeting, right, where

514
00:19:07,460 --> 00:19:09,880
decisions are being made, where you're where other

515
00:19:10,019 --> 00:19:12,075
opinions are so crucial. And so that's why

516
00:19:12,075 --> 00:19:14,394
I I wanna definitely focus on on on

517
00:19:14,394 --> 00:19:16,174
this, but give us the example.

518
00:19:16,555 --> 00:19:17,914
Let's go to the example you share in

519
00:19:17,914 --> 00:19:20,154
the book about Lee Iacocca, who was the

520
00:19:20,154 --> 00:19:23,914
CEO of Chrysler. Was it early nineties? Yeah.

521
00:19:23,914 --> 00:19:25,595
And even a little bit before that. Yeah.

522
00:19:25,595 --> 00:19:26,095
Okay.

523
00:19:26,490 --> 00:19:28,650
So in well, I'll use him as an

524
00:19:28,650 --> 00:19:29,150
example.

525
00:19:29,529 --> 00:19:31,950
But let me give you four desires.

526
00:19:32,410 --> 00:19:34,410
K? Okay. Perfect. And these are desires that

527
00:19:34,410 --> 00:19:36,410
you can be walking into our to a

528
00:19:36,410 --> 00:19:38,910
meeting with. A desire to look good,

529
00:19:39,289 --> 00:19:41,975
a desire to be right, a desire to

530
00:19:41,975 --> 00:19:44,795
avoid problems, and a desire to get ahead.

531
00:19:45,015 --> 00:19:47,414
Like, are there is there anything wrong with

532
00:19:47,414 --> 00:19:48,154
these desires?

533
00:19:48,455 --> 00:19:49,894
Yeah. I mean, some of them maybe seem

534
00:19:49,894 --> 00:19:51,575
more prideful than others, but I think we

535
00:19:51,575 --> 00:19:53,894
all are striving to look good. That doesn't

536
00:19:53,894 --> 00:19:56,019
mean that, you know, we'll go we'll do

537
00:19:56,019 --> 00:19:58,359
anything to look good, but maybe some do.

538
00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:01,320
Yeah. I mean, these are really justifiable

539
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:04,100
desires because who wants to look bad, be

540
00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:06,820
wrong, have problems, and get passed up? Well,

541
00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:07,320
nobody.

542
00:20:07,859 --> 00:20:10,315
Right? But the problem is that these desires

543
00:20:10,315 --> 00:20:12,255
are attached to the negative mindsets.

544
00:20:13,035 --> 00:20:13,535
And

545
00:20:13,994 --> 00:20:16,154
the reason why they're negative is because they

546
00:20:16,154 --> 00:20:18,954
are self focused. When we have these negative

547
00:20:18,954 --> 00:20:21,755
mindsets and these negative desires, we're in self

548
00:20:21,755 --> 00:20:24,619
protection mode. And it's really easy for leaders

549
00:20:24,619 --> 00:20:27,119
to get into self protection mode. Yeah. Because

550
00:20:27,339 --> 00:20:29,099
there's a lot to live up to as

551
00:20:29,099 --> 00:20:30,940
a leader. So we feel a lot of

552
00:20:30,940 --> 00:20:33,180
pressure, and so we wanna feel we feel

553
00:20:33,180 --> 00:20:35,819
like we need to look good, have all

554
00:20:35,819 --> 00:20:36,480
the answers,

555
00:20:36,859 --> 00:20:38,240
and within the church,

556
00:20:38,585 --> 00:20:40,825
we're doing this for free. And so that

557
00:20:40,825 --> 00:20:42,904
means I want to avoid problems, because the

558
00:20:42,904 --> 00:20:44,984
more problems I have here, is the less

559
00:20:44,984 --> 00:20:46,505
I have time for my family and my

560
00:20:46,505 --> 00:20:47,865
work and all the other stuff that I

561
00:20:47,865 --> 00:20:50,345
have going on. So naturally, I think leaders,

562
00:20:50,345 --> 00:20:51,005
and particularly

563
00:20:51,305 --> 00:20:52,500
leaders in the church,

564
00:20:53,380 --> 00:20:54,759
are socially incentivized

565
00:20:55,619 --> 00:20:57,640
to have negative desires.

566
00:20:58,019 --> 00:21:00,279
And what we don't recognize is that there's

567
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:03,380
higher order desires to have associated with the

568
00:21:03,380 --> 00:21:04,519
more positive mindsets.

569
00:21:04,974 --> 00:21:07,375
So instead of wanting to look good, we

570
00:21:07,375 --> 00:21:09,855
should want to learn and grow. Instead of

571
00:21:09,855 --> 00:21:12,335
wanting to be right, we should wanna find

572
00:21:12,335 --> 00:21:15,134
truth and think optimally. Instead of wanting to

573
00:21:15,134 --> 00:21:18,115
avoid problems, we should seek to reach goals.

574
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,679
And instead of wanting to get ahead, we

575
00:21:20,679 --> 00:21:23,480
should seek to lift others. Yeah. And and

576
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,799
as we make these shifts, we're moving from

577
00:21:25,799 --> 00:21:27,980
self protection mode to organization

578
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,000
advanced mode. Does that make sense? Yeah. And

579
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,079
and I my mind goes to the example

580
00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:35,205
of, you know, the mindset in in church

581
00:21:35,205 --> 00:21:37,045
leadership. At the end of the day, we

582
00:21:37,045 --> 00:21:39,285
just want to do what the Lord would

583
00:21:39,285 --> 00:21:41,525
have us do. Right? And and that's not

584
00:21:41,525 --> 00:21:44,164
necessarily a negative mindset, but then these social

585
00:21:44,164 --> 00:21:44,664
influences

586
00:21:45,365 --> 00:21:46,884
come because there's no way to, like, get

587
00:21:46,884 --> 00:21:48,964
rid of them or just just by stating

588
00:21:48,964 --> 00:21:51,259
that on paper, it makes sense. But then

589
00:21:51,259 --> 00:21:53,019
we get into the then we get, you

590
00:21:53,019 --> 00:21:55,019
know, angry people knocking on our door or

591
00:21:55,019 --> 00:21:57,579
we get a conflict that that arises in

592
00:21:57,579 --> 00:21:59,579
a meeting, then we think, okay. Let's let's

593
00:21:59,579 --> 00:22:01,180
not make any waves. You know? Let's not,

594
00:22:01,180 --> 00:22:03,500
you know, let's avoid any problems here. And

595
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:05,015
so let's get, you know,

596
00:22:05,715 --> 00:22:07,234
you know, put this aside or whatever it

597
00:22:07,234 --> 00:22:09,315
is. But it is by going through those

598
00:22:09,315 --> 00:22:10,994
problems that we discover what the lord would

599
00:22:10,994 --> 00:22:12,515
have us do. You know? It's by it's

600
00:22:12,515 --> 00:22:14,674
by not looking good at times that we

601
00:22:14,674 --> 00:22:16,115
discover what the lord would have us do.

602
00:22:16,115 --> 00:22:17,909
So this is this is a great example

603
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:19,990
of how these social pressures can really influence

604
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:22,470
us. Yeah. For sure. And so die diving

605
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:25,029
back into this Lee Iacocca example is as

606
00:22:25,029 --> 00:22:25,690
a leader,

607
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:28,630
he had these negative desires. He wanted to

608
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:31,029
look good, be right, avoid problems, and get

609
00:22:31,029 --> 00:22:33,325
ahead. And so that influenced

610
00:22:33,705 --> 00:22:35,085
how he led Chrysler.

611
00:22:35,465 --> 00:22:36,205
And, essentially,

612
00:22:36,585 --> 00:22:38,684
he was focused more

613
00:22:39,225 --> 00:22:40,924
on looking good,

614
00:22:41,625 --> 00:22:43,725
kind of having a positive image,

615
00:22:44,099 --> 00:22:45,000
more than actually

616
00:22:45,539 --> 00:22:47,079
building his organization

617
00:22:47,859 --> 00:22:50,819
and improving the substance of his organization. So

618
00:22:50,819 --> 00:22:52,119
while he was improving

619
00:22:52,579 --> 00:22:54,740
kind of the looks of his cars, he

620
00:22:54,740 --> 00:22:57,880
was doing nothing to improve the internal aspect

621
00:22:57,914 --> 00:23:00,075
of these cars, like the engine and things

622
00:23:00,075 --> 00:23:01,455
like that that would actually

623
00:23:01,835 --> 00:23:03,914
lead the car to be successful moving forward.

624
00:23:03,914 --> 00:23:05,674
Because at the end of the day, what

625
00:23:05,674 --> 00:23:07,434
matters is whether or not I've got a

626
00:23:07,434 --> 00:23:10,394
reliable car, not how good it looks. And

627
00:23:10,394 --> 00:23:13,215
so that was essentially his his mindsets

628
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:16,150
just let him to see the world in

629
00:23:16,150 --> 00:23:18,390
such a way that he was more focused

630
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:21,589
on on looking good as opposed to learning

631
00:23:21,589 --> 00:23:23,609
and actually developing the organization.

632
00:23:24,069 --> 00:23:25,669
Yeah. And and the interesting about a story

633
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:27,269
that you talk about is, like, when he

634
00:23:27,269 --> 00:23:29,775
got put in as a CEO, he it

635
00:23:29,775 --> 00:23:32,335
appeared that he turned that organization around. And

636
00:23:32,335 --> 00:23:33,855
he said there there's research that was done

637
00:23:33,855 --> 00:23:35,955
that shows that, well, actually, the the economy

638
00:23:36,015 --> 00:23:38,654
and other so many other factors actually led

639
00:23:38,654 --> 00:23:41,295
to Chrysler improving. And then it took a

640
00:23:41,295 --> 00:23:43,880
dive, and he couldn't figure out how to

641
00:23:44,019 --> 00:23:46,180
regain it because before, he was sort of

642
00:23:46,180 --> 00:23:48,500
relying on what worked before, why isn't working

643
00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:50,900
now, and and wasn't considering the mindset that

644
00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:52,900
he was in. Right? Yep. For sure. And

645
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:55,475
that's a tricky thing about church leadership is

646
00:23:55,475 --> 00:23:57,735
that you can you can see some success,

647
00:23:57,795 --> 00:23:59,495
and we sort of connect

648
00:23:59,875 --> 00:24:01,255
a result to a

649
00:24:01,634 --> 00:24:03,475
to a practice or or or a plan

650
00:24:03,475 --> 00:24:05,075
that we did, and we think that's why

651
00:24:05,075 --> 00:24:07,329
it succeeded. So, you know, why doesn't it

652
00:24:07,329 --> 00:24:09,169
just keep working? You know? You know, we

653
00:24:09,169 --> 00:24:11,250
can give be be trapped in that mindset

654
00:24:11,250 --> 00:24:13,490
because we thought it was working. Mhmm. And

655
00:24:13,490 --> 00:24:15,250
this is as far as, like, mindset, like,

656
00:24:15,250 --> 00:24:16,769
this led me as I was read reading

657
00:24:16,769 --> 00:24:19,269
that Lee Iacocca, you know, example,

658
00:24:19,569 --> 00:24:22,194
I'm always applying it to the church context.

659
00:24:22,734 --> 00:24:24,255
And we have this dynamic in the church

660
00:24:24,255 --> 00:24:26,255
as far as, like, being a keyholder or

661
00:24:26,255 --> 00:24:29,154
having authority. Like, we are literally set apart

662
00:24:29,375 --> 00:24:32,095
and sometimes ordained to lead in certain callings.

663
00:24:32,095 --> 00:24:34,174
And so that alone can give us this

664
00:24:34,174 --> 00:24:36,700
mindset of, okay. I am now endowed with

665
00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:39,259
certain power to have the right answers, to

666
00:24:39,259 --> 00:24:40,960
have the right lenses and perspective.

667
00:24:41,259 --> 00:24:43,980
And, sure, that we could, like there's examples

668
00:24:43,980 --> 00:24:45,679
in the church where maybe there

669
00:24:46,299 --> 00:24:49,654
specific events happen because of that, but we

670
00:24:49,654 --> 00:24:52,134
are limiting ourselves when we think I'm the

671
00:24:52,134 --> 00:24:54,454
one with these the examples or or my

672
00:24:54,454 --> 00:24:56,535
opinion counts more than others. And, again, these

673
00:24:56,535 --> 00:24:58,054
are things we do subconsciously. I don't I

674
00:24:58,054 --> 00:25:00,134
can't imagine any good bishop or or at

675
00:25:00,134 --> 00:25:01,894
least at a present saying that, but we

676
00:25:01,894 --> 00:25:03,035
kinda get in that

677
00:25:03,409 --> 00:25:06,049
mode, and that closes us off to a

678
00:25:06,049 --> 00:25:06,549
deeper

679
00:25:06,849 --> 00:25:09,569
deeper revelation and answers. Right? Yeah. And so

680
00:25:09,569 --> 00:25:11,730
what you're diving into is one of the

681
00:25:11,730 --> 00:25:13,730
four sets that I of mindsets that I

682
00:25:13,730 --> 00:25:15,490
focus on in the book. And I focus

683
00:25:15,490 --> 00:25:17,109
on these four sets of mindsets

684
00:25:17,595 --> 00:25:19,914
not because these are just kind of out

685
00:25:19,914 --> 00:25:22,714
there, but literally there's been thirty plus years

686
00:25:22,714 --> 00:25:24,875
of research backing on each of these sets

687
00:25:24,875 --> 00:25:27,115
of mindsets. Okay. And so there are other

688
00:25:27,115 --> 00:25:29,194
sets of mindsets that we can focus on.

689
00:25:29,194 --> 00:25:32,255
For example, I've seen abundance and deficit mindsets.

690
00:25:32,710 --> 00:25:35,269
I really like the principles associated with those.

691
00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:38,090
Unfortunately, we just have zero research demonstrating

692
00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:40,950
that those mindsets affect our thinking, learning, and

693
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:42,970
behavior. Now I think that they do,

694
00:25:43,430 --> 00:25:45,269
but I don't have that backing. And so

695
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:46,490
in terms of the book,

696
00:25:46,855 --> 00:25:47,835
I pulled together

697
00:25:48,214 --> 00:25:49,755
different sets of mindsets

698
00:25:50,534 --> 00:25:52,454
that have been studied in different fields of

699
00:25:52,454 --> 00:25:56,054
study, like psychology, education, management, and marketing. And

700
00:25:56,054 --> 00:25:57,974
they largely haven't been talking to each other,

701
00:25:57,974 --> 00:25:59,734
and so I just put them together into

702
00:25:59,734 --> 00:26:01,434
a single framework because

703
00:26:01,849 --> 00:26:03,150
they've all been demonstrated

704
00:26:03,690 --> 00:26:06,330
to drive our thinking, learning, and behavior. And

705
00:26:06,330 --> 00:26:08,250
one of these sets of mindsets is you're,

706
00:26:08,570 --> 00:26:10,650
alluding to is the difference between a closed

707
00:26:10,650 --> 00:26:11,150
mindset

708
00:26:11,450 --> 00:26:13,690
and an open mindset. And you're so right

709
00:26:13,690 --> 00:26:16,055
in that everybody, if we ask them, are

710
00:26:16,055 --> 00:26:16,955
you open minded?

711
00:26:17,335 --> 00:26:20,455
Everybody's gonna say yes. But before we smugly

712
00:26:20,455 --> 00:26:22,855
slap an open minded sticker on our forehead,

713
00:26:22,855 --> 00:26:24,154
we should consider that

714
00:26:25,015 --> 00:26:26,634
that the people that

715
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:29,220
can be the most damaging in the organization

716
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:31,619
are those who think that they're open minded

717
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,140
but are actually closed minded.

718
00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:36,559
Yeah. And I will say even broader than

719
00:26:36,559 --> 00:26:39,519
stepping into a leadership position where we naturally

720
00:26:39,519 --> 00:26:40,960
feel like we need to have all the

721
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:41,700
right answers,

722
00:26:42,025 --> 00:26:44,184
I think that and this is gonna be

723
00:26:44,184 --> 00:26:44,684
maybe

724
00:26:45,144 --> 00:26:47,144
a little challenging for some folks, but I

725
00:26:47,144 --> 00:26:49,724
think our church culture actually incentivizes

726
00:26:50,105 --> 00:26:51,404
more of a closed mindset.

727
00:26:52,025 --> 00:26:53,804
How dare you, Ryan? I know.

728
00:26:54,289 --> 00:26:55,890
Hey, Ben. But this is great to explore

729
00:26:55,890 --> 00:26:57,890
because I I I agree with you. And

730
00:26:57,890 --> 00:26:59,730
it's just these little innocent things that that

731
00:26:59,730 --> 00:27:01,829
come up. But lead us into that discussion.

732
00:27:02,049 --> 00:27:04,049
So when we have a closed mindset, we're

733
00:27:04,049 --> 00:27:05,890
close to the ideas and suggestions of others.

734
00:27:05,890 --> 00:27:08,044
We're not willing to take those in. Mhmm.

735
00:27:08,044 --> 00:27:09,804
When we have an open mindset, we're open

736
00:27:09,804 --> 00:27:12,125
to others' ideas and suggestions, and we're willing

737
00:27:12,125 --> 00:27:14,044
to take them in. Not that we have

738
00:27:14,044 --> 00:27:15,605
to run with them. We can always have

739
00:27:15,605 --> 00:27:17,164
a Or agree with them or anything. Right?

740
00:27:17,164 --> 00:27:19,325
Yeah. We can always have a stiff back

741
00:27:19,325 --> 00:27:21,750
in terms of having our own principles. But

742
00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:24,490
what's really important is having a soft front,

743
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:27,670
allowing ideas to come in. Now, I don't

744
00:27:27,670 --> 00:27:29,670
think any of us like hanging out with

745
00:27:29,670 --> 00:27:32,630
somebody who's close minded, right? When we're close

746
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:35,750
minded, we're rather unapproachable and off putting. Our

747
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:36,730
decision making

748
00:27:37,304 --> 00:27:39,464
becomes stunted because we're not able to see

749
00:27:39,464 --> 00:27:40,764
alternative perspectives.

750
00:27:41,144 --> 00:27:43,065
So it leads me, it's led me to

751
00:27:43,065 --> 00:27:45,884
wonder what leads somebody to be close minded?

752
00:27:46,184 --> 00:27:48,184
And at the end of the day, what

753
00:27:48,184 --> 00:27:50,744
leads somebody to be close minded is they

754
00:27:50,744 --> 00:27:53,359
believe that what they know is right. And

755
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:54,880
when we believe that what we know is

756
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,600
right, we want to be seen as being

757
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,080
right. And so to compare this, like, let's

758
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,160
compare our mind to a bucket. And if

759
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,039
our bucket is full, meaning I what I

760
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:07,994
know is is right, what happens if we

761
00:28:07,994 --> 00:28:10,075
pour something into a full bucket? Well, it

762
00:28:10,075 --> 00:28:11,914
just runs off the side. We aren't able

763
00:28:11,914 --> 00:28:13,914
to absorb any of it. And that's what

764
00:28:13,914 --> 00:28:15,674
happens when we have this closed mindset and

765
00:28:15,674 --> 00:28:17,275
we believe that what we know is right.

766
00:28:17,275 --> 00:28:17,775
Because

767
00:28:18,075 --> 00:28:20,315
when we believe that way, we want to

768
00:28:20,315 --> 00:28:21,914
be seen as being the one with all

769
00:28:21,914 --> 00:28:24,400
the answers. So we're not asking questions. This

770
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,660
means that we're maybe the leader in

771
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,600
the ward council meeting who's giving all of

772
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:30,259
the answers.

773
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:32,240
Like, they're the first one to speak, and

774
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,920
they're the first one to say, I think

775
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,440
this is what we should do. They're not

776
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,059
the ones asking questions.

777
00:28:37,795 --> 00:28:38,295
They're

778
00:28:38,835 --> 00:28:41,234
closed off to feedback and new perspectives, and

779
00:28:41,234 --> 00:28:42,134
they'll see disagreement

780
00:28:42,515 --> 00:28:43,414
as a threat.

781
00:28:44,195 --> 00:28:45,974
And that's kind of a natural

782
00:28:46,515 --> 00:28:49,154
way to operate if we believe that what

783
00:28:49,154 --> 00:28:51,394
we know is best. And so in terms

784
00:28:51,394 --> 00:28:53,015
of our overall church culture,

785
00:28:53,849 --> 00:28:56,349
have you ever heard anybody say I know

786
00:28:56,569 --> 00:28:57,309
in church?

787
00:28:58,730 --> 00:29:00,009
A few times. A few times. A few

788
00:29:00,009 --> 00:29:02,009
times. We're getting close to a sacred cow.

789
00:29:02,009 --> 00:29:02,910
This is great.

790
00:29:03,849 --> 00:29:06,089
So when we're saying I know and then

791
00:29:06,089 --> 00:29:08,329
we could get add on beyond a shadow

792
00:29:08,329 --> 00:29:10,304
of a doubt, What we're doing is we're

793
00:29:10,304 --> 00:29:12,865
saying my bucket is full, and I have

794
00:29:12,865 --> 00:29:14,865
no more space for the idea that I

795
00:29:14,865 --> 00:29:17,105
could be wrong. Right. And, oh, and my

796
00:29:17,265 --> 00:29:18,625
Let me let me clarify this because this

797
00:29:18,625 --> 00:29:20,544
is such an important point is that you're

798
00:29:20,544 --> 00:29:22,784
not saying we should never put knowledge and

799
00:29:22,865 --> 00:29:24,869
or truth into a bucket. We're just saying,

800
00:29:24,869 --> 00:29:26,789
like, being in a mindset where you feel

801
00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:29,670
like there's always something more to put in.

802
00:29:29,670 --> 00:29:32,869
There's always there's always extra room to put

803
00:29:32,869 --> 00:29:35,430
more information or knowledge or perspective into that

804
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:38,070
bucket. Right? Precisely. So when we have this

805
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:39,974
open mindset, it's not that we can't be

806
00:29:39,974 --> 00:29:42,295
an expert on the topic, it's just we're

807
00:29:42,295 --> 00:29:45,015
leaving some room in that bucket for some

808
00:29:45,015 --> 00:29:47,174
new things to be poured in. Because when

809
00:29:47,174 --> 00:29:49,654
we leave that space, we no longer are

810
00:29:49,654 --> 00:29:52,214
focused on being seen as right, we're focused

811
00:29:52,214 --> 00:29:54,315
on finding truth and thinking optimally.

812
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,660
Instead of being the one answering the questions,

813
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,919
we're the ones asking the questions. We're inviting

814
00:29:59,919 --> 00:30:02,319
feedback. We're inviting new perspectives, and we see

815
00:30:02,319 --> 00:30:03,779
disagreements as opportunities

816
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,559
to learn. Yeah. And I don't know about

817
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:08,934
you, but and this is maybe a little

818
00:30:08,934 --> 00:30:11,174
pet peeve of mine, is when I sit

819
00:30:11,174 --> 00:30:13,595
down in elders quorum, I think oftentimes

820
00:30:14,215 --> 00:30:17,414
it gets into a competition between who knows

821
00:30:17,414 --> 00:30:19,894
best. Mhmm. And it what that does is

822
00:30:19,894 --> 00:30:20,279
it

823
00:30:20,759 --> 00:30:21,580
shuts down

824
00:30:22,039 --> 00:30:22,779
the alternative

825
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,740
perspectives of other people. It shuts down conversations.

826
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,380
And the thing that's unique about this is

827
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,080
Google has done a massive study to find

828
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,320
out what makes their top performing teams top

829
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,355
performing. And they found one primary factor, and

830
00:30:36,355 --> 00:30:37,174
it was psychological

831
00:30:37,554 --> 00:30:40,034
safety. The belief that you could speak up

832
00:30:40,034 --> 00:30:42,694
and take risk without fear of negative repercussions.

833
00:30:43,154 --> 00:30:45,255
And that's only going to be possible

834
00:30:45,714 --> 00:30:47,894
if those around us in that work environment

835
00:30:47,954 --> 00:30:49,255
or that church environment

836
00:30:49,740 --> 00:30:52,700
have open mindsets, that are willing to hear

837
00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:53,519
new perspectives.

838
00:30:54,059 --> 00:30:56,539
So there may be things that we don't

839
00:30:56,539 --> 00:30:57,359
agree with

840
00:30:57,660 --> 00:31:00,539
in the church, such as maybe same gender

841
00:31:00,539 --> 00:31:01,839
attraction or homosexuality,

842
00:31:03,339 --> 00:31:05,200
and it's it's not that we can't

843
00:31:05,634 --> 00:31:08,035
take a stance on that topic, but are

844
00:31:08,035 --> 00:31:09,974
you able to at least hear

845
00:31:10,595 --> 00:31:12,674
from people that have an opposing point of

846
00:31:12,674 --> 00:31:15,875
view? Just take in their ideas and explore

847
00:31:15,875 --> 00:31:17,875
them. Again, not that we have to run

848
00:31:17,875 --> 00:31:20,039
with them. Just try to understand

849
00:31:20,340 --> 00:31:21,400
as opposed to

850
00:31:21,779 --> 00:31:24,019
think my perspective is right and my perspective

851
00:31:24,019 --> 00:31:26,259
is best. Right. Yeah. And let me let

852
00:31:26,340 --> 00:31:27,960
another example is you've been talking

853
00:31:28,340 --> 00:31:30,259
that came to mind that where you talk

854
00:31:30,259 --> 00:31:33,535
about how our our religious culture can actually

855
00:31:33,535 --> 00:31:35,955
stimulate a closed mindset than an open mindset,

856
00:31:36,575 --> 00:31:39,295
which impacts our our leadership negatively, is, you

857
00:31:39,295 --> 00:31:41,075
know, being a lay in a lay ministry,

858
00:31:41,295 --> 00:31:42,894
let's say a new bishop gets called, and

859
00:31:42,894 --> 00:31:45,069
maybe he hasn't had a ton of leadership

860
00:31:45,069 --> 00:31:46,750
experience in the past. So so with the

861
00:31:46,750 --> 00:31:48,429
best intentions, he wants to do a good

862
00:31:48,429 --> 00:31:50,509
job. He doesn't wanna disappoint the stake president.

863
00:31:50,509 --> 00:31:52,429
He doesn't wanna disappoint God, which is a

864
00:31:52,429 --> 00:31:54,289
whole other podcast I've done. And,

865
00:31:54,589 --> 00:31:56,109
you know, he just wants to do a

866
00:31:56,109 --> 00:31:57,765
good job. And so what does he do

867
00:31:57,765 --> 00:31:59,865
is he's like, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna

868
00:31:59,924 --> 00:32:02,565
stick close to the handbook. Great. Awesome. Get

869
00:32:02,565 --> 00:32:04,724
the handbook out. He's gonna read it pick

870
00:32:04,724 --> 00:32:07,625
cover to cover, highlight, make some notes,

871
00:32:07,924 --> 00:32:10,884
and constantly refer to that handbook. What happens

872
00:32:10,884 --> 00:32:13,500
is that then the handbook, which again, I'm

873
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:15,500
in no way discouraging anybody from following the

874
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:17,839
handbook. Let me be clear. But what happens

875
00:32:18,220 --> 00:32:20,880
is that as unique circumstances and perspectives

876
00:32:21,180 --> 00:32:22,240
come into the discussion,

877
00:32:22,539 --> 00:32:24,140
a lot of these things can't be found

878
00:32:24,140 --> 00:32:26,720
in the handbook. Right? And so he

879
00:32:27,105 --> 00:32:29,904
then be because it's risky to open the

880
00:32:29,904 --> 00:32:31,984
mind a little bit to other ideas, he

881
00:32:31,984 --> 00:32:33,505
then says, well, it's not in the handbook,

882
00:32:33,505 --> 00:32:35,664
so therefore, it must not be important. So

883
00:32:35,664 --> 00:32:38,144
therefore, I'm going to dismiss any ideas that

884
00:32:38,144 --> 00:32:40,304
cannot be directly found in the handbook because

885
00:32:40,304 --> 00:32:42,299
I just wanna do a good job. Right?

886
00:32:42,539 --> 00:32:44,320
Suddenly, we're in a closed mindset

887
00:32:44,779 --> 00:32:46,480
that it's hard to get out of because

888
00:32:46,539 --> 00:32:50,080
you're constantly looking to the rules, the policies,

889
00:32:50,140 --> 00:32:50,720
the procedures

890
00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:52,860
for things that aren't even meant to be

891
00:32:52,860 --> 00:32:55,820
explained there. Right? Yeah. And you're actually now

892
00:32:55,820 --> 00:32:57,920
jumping into another set of mindsets.

893
00:32:58,224 --> 00:32:59,904
Okay. And here. So it I'm dragging you

894
00:32:59,904 --> 00:33:01,345
all over the place. Alright. No. This is

895
00:33:01,345 --> 00:33:03,585
perfect. So this is a perfect segue because

896
00:33:03,585 --> 00:33:05,664
what you're jumping into is the difference between

897
00:33:05,664 --> 00:33:08,625
a prevention mindset and a promotion mindset. Right.

898
00:33:08,625 --> 00:33:10,704
So when we have a prevent a prevention

899
00:33:10,704 --> 00:33:14,269
mindset, our primary focus is on not losing.

900
00:33:14,330 --> 00:33:16,570
When we have a promotion mindset, our primary

901
00:33:16,570 --> 00:33:19,130
focus is on winning and gains. And to

902
00:33:19,130 --> 00:33:21,230
explain the difference between these two mindsets,

903
00:33:21,529 --> 00:33:23,369
I want us to imagine that we're a

904
00:33:23,369 --> 00:33:25,130
ship captain in the middle of the ocean.

905
00:33:25,130 --> 00:33:26,809
And if we're the ship captain and we

906
00:33:26,809 --> 00:33:29,605
have a prevention mindset, our number one focus

907
00:33:29,605 --> 00:33:31,065
is on not sinking.

908
00:33:31,365 --> 00:33:33,545
Right. We don't want any problems to occur.

909
00:33:33,924 --> 00:33:35,924
We just wanna maintain the status quo. In

910
00:33:35,924 --> 00:33:37,845
other words, we don't wanna rock the boat.

911
00:33:37,845 --> 00:33:39,545
We don't wanna take any risks.

912
00:33:40,085 --> 00:33:42,619
So what happens when a storm comes on

913
00:33:42,619 --> 00:33:44,799
the horizon and we're the ship captain

914
00:33:45,180 --> 00:33:48,460
that's focused on not sinking? Well, we're gonna

915
00:33:48,460 --> 00:33:49,920
run to a place of safety,

916
00:33:50,299 --> 00:33:51,599
a port or a harbor

917
00:33:52,059 --> 00:33:54,755
where we won't be, you might say, buffeted

918
00:33:54,815 --> 00:33:56,174
by the winds and the storms in the

919
00:33:56,174 --> 00:33:58,755
sea. And but we gotta ask ourselves,

920
00:33:59,134 --> 00:34:01,934
is that the destination that we originally set

921
00:34:01,934 --> 00:34:02,595
out for?

922
00:34:02,974 --> 00:34:04,275
No. It's not.

923
00:34:04,575 --> 00:34:07,650
Those who are have this prevention mindset, they

924
00:34:07,650 --> 00:34:09,969
effectively become a life raft blown about by

925
00:34:09,969 --> 00:34:11,570
the winds and the currents of the sea,

926
00:34:11,570 --> 00:34:13,429
and they they end up in a destination

927
00:34:13,489 --> 00:34:15,650
that they didn't decide because they're trying to

928
00:34:15,650 --> 00:34:18,050
play it safe more than getting to a

929
00:34:18,050 --> 00:34:18,550
destination.

930
00:34:18,994 --> 00:34:20,835
And that's what a promotion mindset is, is

931
00:34:20,835 --> 00:34:22,454
when we have a clear destination

932
00:34:22,914 --> 00:34:25,155
and we're focused on making progress towards it.

933
00:34:25,155 --> 00:34:28,355
Because when we have the storm come on

934
00:34:28,355 --> 00:34:30,594
the horizon and we have this promotion mindset,

935
00:34:30,594 --> 00:34:31,494
we ask ourselves,

936
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:34,239
does that storm stand between me and my

937
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:34,739
destination?

938
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:37,619
And if the answer is yes, then we

939
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:40,639
anticipate problems. We batten down the hatches, and

940
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:43,359
we become willing to take the risks to

941
00:34:43,359 --> 00:34:45,119
brave the winds and the currents of the

942
00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:47,715
sea in order to get to a destination

943
00:34:47,775 --> 00:34:49,394
of our own proactive design.

944
00:34:49,695 --> 00:34:52,594
Yeah. And so when we're focused on avoiding

945
00:34:52,815 --> 00:34:53,315
problems,

946
00:34:53,775 --> 00:34:55,454
we're kind of going the course of least

947
00:34:55,454 --> 00:34:58,994
resistance, and we're not having the positive influence

948
00:34:59,054 --> 00:35:02,070
that we can have. What truly our ideal

949
00:35:02,130 --> 00:35:02,630
selves

950
00:35:02,929 --> 00:35:03,989
want us to have.

951
00:35:04,289 --> 00:35:06,949
We're not really making progress towards anything.

952
00:35:07,489 --> 00:35:10,289
We're just avoiding problems, and the absence of

953
00:35:10,289 --> 00:35:12,389
disease does not equal health.

954
00:35:12,744 --> 00:35:14,184
Yeah. And I love you that you use

955
00:35:14,184 --> 00:35:16,905
the term status quo because this is this

956
00:35:16,905 --> 00:35:18,744
is something I I think about a lot

957
00:35:18,744 --> 00:35:21,405
is the status quo where, like, this

958
00:35:21,704 --> 00:35:23,304
most people would say, like, you think of

959
00:35:23,304 --> 00:35:25,304
your that your word, wherever the word is,

960
00:35:25,304 --> 00:35:26,905
and maybe you're in an outlier and it's,

961
00:35:26,905 --> 00:35:29,460
you know, just out of this world successful

962
00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:31,059
and you're breaking all sorts of records and

963
00:35:31,059 --> 00:35:32,420
being written about in the end sign and

964
00:35:32,420 --> 00:35:33,940
all these things. But if you think about

965
00:35:33,940 --> 00:35:36,500
the stat what envision what the status quo

966
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:38,420
looks like in your ward, and oftentimes people

967
00:35:38,420 --> 00:35:40,519
will say the status quo is not working,

968
00:35:40,824 --> 00:35:41,565
but also

969
00:35:41,864 --> 00:35:44,265
is not failing or it's also not creating

970
00:35:44,265 --> 00:35:47,164
destruction. So maybe we're we'll just sort of

971
00:35:47,385 --> 00:35:49,144
slowly inch our way out of the status

972
00:35:49,144 --> 00:35:51,224
quo, but nobody inches their way out of

973
00:35:51,224 --> 00:35:53,885
the status quo. So many times takes dynamic

974
00:35:54,025 --> 00:35:54,525
vision

975
00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:56,659
to push back on the status quo. And

976
00:35:56,659 --> 00:35:58,500
this is going back to that handbook example

977
00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:00,980
where we see the status quo is there,

978
00:36:00,980 --> 00:36:02,819
but we're afraid to push on it because

979
00:36:02,819 --> 00:36:05,299
that is risky. Right? What happens when I

980
00:36:05,299 --> 00:36:07,079
push on it? What what are these social

981
00:36:07,139 --> 00:36:09,299
desires are gonna be disrupted when I push

982
00:36:09,299 --> 00:36:11,295
it? Maybe I'm gonna fail as a as

983
00:36:11,295 --> 00:36:13,454
a leader. Maybe I'm gonna look wrong. Right?

984
00:36:13,454 --> 00:36:15,295
And people will I'll lose trust with people,

985
00:36:15,295 --> 00:36:17,454
or or maybe they'll just create more problems

986
00:36:17,454 --> 00:36:19,394
when I push on the status quo. So

987
00:36:19,614 --> 00:36:21,695
I'm just going to go with the flow.

988
00:36:21,695 --> 00:36:23,295
Right? We're we're gonna make sure the church

989
00:36:23,295 --> 00:36:24,894
is unlocked on on Sunday, and I call

990
00:36:24,894 --> 00:36:26,849
this the, you know, the, all you do

991
00:36:26,849 --> 00:36:28,529
as a leader is unlock the doors and

992
00:36:28,529 --> 00:36:30,449
turn on the lights on Sunday, and that's

993
00:36:30,449 --> 00:36:32,130
good. Right? So you just make sure you're

994
00:36:32,130 --> 00:36:34,130
there every Sunday to do the status quo.

995
00:36:34,130 --> 00:36:37,409
But then remarkable leadership happens when we push

996
00:36:37,409 --> 00:36:39,605
back on the status quo, recognizing

997
00:36:40,224 --> 00:36:42,885
there's some risk in doing that. And let's

998
00:36:43,585 --> 00:36:45,585
I'm gonna touch on a little pet peeve

999
00:36:45,585 --> 00:36:48,385
of mine within the church. And, I mean,

1000
00:36:48,385 --> 00:36:50,804
what is the typical sacrament meeting

1001
00:36:51,105 --> 00:36:52,085
talk topic?

1002
00:36:52,590 --> 00:36:53,390
General conference,

1003
00:36:54,269 --> 00:36:57,010
meetings. Right? Uh-huh. So essentially,

1004
00:36:57,710 --> 00:37:00,750
that's kinda become the norm. And is this

1005
00:37:00,750 --> 00:37:03,710
a prevention mindset, driven by a prevention mindset

1006
00:37:03,710 --> 00:37:04,930
or a promotion mindset?

1007
00:37:05,264 --> 00:37:07,424
Prevention. Right. It seems to me to be

1008
00:37:07,424 --> 00:37:09,904
a prevention because we're focused on if we're

1009
00:37:09,904 --> 00:37:12,224
talking about a general conference talk, we can't

1010
00:37:12,224 --> 00:37:15,045
go wrong. Yeah. It's it's safe. It's safe.

1011
00:37:15,105 --> 00:37:17,444
And our purpose by default becomes

1012
00:37:17,769 --> 00:37:20,110
essentially what's the purpose of our sacrament meeting?

1013
00:37:20,170 --> 00:37:22,410
To tell people what they should have listened

1014
00:37:22,410 --> 00:37:25,289
to in general conference. Like, what if we

1015
00:37:25,289 --> 00:37:26,030
were to,

1016
00:37:26,329 --> 00:37:29,610
as a leader, say what impact do we

1017
00:37:29,610 --> 00:37:31,150
want to have on our congregation

1018
00:37:31,885 --> 00:37:33,265
through our sacrament meetings?

1019
00:37:33,644 --> 00:37:35,825
And if we identify a destination,

1020
00:37:36,445 --> 00:37:38,684
feelings that we want to create, outcomes that

1021
00:37:38,684 --> 00:37:39,744
we want to create,

1022
00:37:40,204 --> 00:37:43,585
I imagine that selecting a general conference talk

1023
00:37:43,929 --> 00:37:46,750
is only one option of many options

1024
00:37:47,210 --> 00:37:48,429
that we can utilize

1025
00:37:48,809 --> 00:37:51,690
to create the positive outcomes that we want

1026
00:37:51,690 --> 00:37:52,909
to create with our sacrament.

1027
00:37:53,210 --> 00:37:55,070
Yeah. Does that make sense? Does that resonate?

1028
00:37:55,449 --> 00:37:57,945
Yeah. Absolutely. And I think it'd be such

1029
00:37:57,945 --> 00:38:00,905
a healthy exercise for every component of that

1030
00:38:00,905 --> 00:38:03,065
you experience in leadership. So it may be,

1031
00:38:03,065 --> 00:38:04,505
what are 10 risks we could take in

1032
00:38:04,505 --> 00:38:05,244
word council?

1033
00:38:05,545 --> 00:38:06,905
What are 10 risks that we could take

1034
00:38:06,905 --> 00:38:09,465
in sacrament meeting? And some people hear that.

1035
00:38:09,465 --> 00:38:11,849
In our conservative culture, they think, oh, like,

1036
00:38:12,010 --> 00:38:13,690
Ryan, I don't like where you're going with

1037
00:38:13,690 --> 00:38:16,170
this because this is where apostasy happens or

1038
00:38:16,170 --> 00:38:18,809
this is where, you know, false doctrine is

1039
00:38:18,809 --> 00:38:21,230
introduced. And, yeah, those are maybe some some

1040
00:38:21,690 --> 00:38:23,150
to me, okay, they're not risk.

1041
00:38:23,610 --> 00:38:24,970
We're cutting that out. I can't even believe

1042
00:38:24,970 --> 00:38:26,570
I brought that up. But but nonetheless, like,

1043
00:38:26,570 --> 00:38:28,195
that's where our our mind goes is like,

1044
00:38:28,195 --> 00:38:30,434
well, what if apostasy happens? Like, what if

1045
00:38:30,434 --> 00:38:32,534
we lead people astray? And so

1046
00:38:32,835 --> 00:38:34,195
to me to me, a lot of people

1047
00:38:34,195 --> 00:38:34,934
can't see

1048
00:38:35,315 --> 00:38:35,974
the potential

1049
00:38:36,355 --> 00:38:37,714
that could come from this. And let me

1050
00:38:38,034 --> 00:38:39,795
and to me, what the potential is is

1051
00:38:39,795 --> 00:38:42,389
that lives could be changed and brought into

1052
00:38:42,389 --> 00:38:44,150
Christ more effectively. And let me give you

1053
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:45,130
an example of this.

1054
00:38:45,429 --> 00:38:48,309
We did a recording with Rob Ferrell, who

1055
00:38:48,309 --> 00:38:50,409
was a young single adult stake president,

1056
00:38:50,789 --> 00:38:52,469
and he talks about how he had all

1057
00:38:52,469 --> 00:38:54,614
these people come into his office. I mean,

1058
00:38:54,614 --> 00:38:55,894
all these people. I mean, a handful of

1059
00:38:55,894 --> 00:38:58,295
people over his time as stake president who

1060
00:38:58,295 --> 00:38:59,914
are in very, like had very

1061
00:39:00,215 --> 00:39:03,035
sketchy past. Like, when an individual had been

1062
00:39:03,255 --> 00:39:05,655
addicted to drugs, had been homeless, living on

1063
00:39:05,655 --> 00:39:06,235
the streets,

1064
00:39:06,775 --> 00:39:07,515
she had

1065
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:12,240
gotten herself in involved with prostitution or to

1066
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:15,619
sell I mean, just awful evil stuff. Right?

1067
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:16,500
And

1068
00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:19,840
she she had this huge turnaround, came back

1069
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,440
to the gospel, and she came to him

1070
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,539
and said, I wanna serve a mission.

1071
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:24,420
Now

1072
00:39:25,085 --> 00:39:27,005
that as a as a stake president, most

1073
00:39:27,005 --> 00:39:27,824
people would say,

1074
00:39:28,284 --> 00:39:30,444
I I love your desire. I appreciate it,

1075
00:39:30,444 --> 00:39:32,684
but it's just not gonna happen. I'm sorry.

1076
00:39:32,684 --> 00:39:35,724
Right? But instead, he took the approach of

1077
00:39:35,724 --> 00:39:37,484
pushing back on the status quo a little

1078
00:39:37,484 --> 00:39:37,984
bit,

1079
00:39:38,460 --> 00:39:40,460
and he's and there's some risk in that,

1080
00:39:40,460 --> 00:39:42,719
but he wrote up an exception

1081
00:39:43,099 --> 00:39:44,940
to the office of the first presidency, and

1082
00:39:44,940 --> 00:39:46,219
he said he got into a habit that

1083
00:39:46,219 --> 00:39:48,219
he was writing more exceptions for people than

1084
00:39:48,219 --> 00:39:49,359
just telling them no.

1085
00:39:49,739 --> 00:39:52,219
And what happened is through that exception, she

1086
00:39:52,219 --> 00:39:54,375
was granted the opportunity to serve a mission.

1087
00:39:54,375 --> 00:39:56,554
Right? And so you go back to, well,

1088
00:39:56,614 --> 00:39:58,295
I could have remained closed minded. I don't

1089
00:39:58,295 --> 00:39:59,894
wanna, like, I don't wanna be the guy

1090
00:39:59,894 --> 00:40:01,894
that's always writing letters to the first presidency

1091
00:40:01,894 --> 00:40:03,655
asking for exceptions. I don't wanna be the

1092
00:40:03,655 --> 00:40:05,255
guy that's pushing back on the handbook. It

1093
00:40:05,255 --> 00:40:07,015
clearly says in the handbook that these things

1094
00:40:07,015 --> 00:40:09,150
probably aren't a good idea. Right? But because

1095
00:40:09,150 --> 00:40:10,609
he did this, this individual

1096
00:40:11,069 --> 00:40:12,050
had a remarkable

1097
00:40:12,510 --> 00:40:13,010
experience.

1098
00:40:13,550 --> 00:40:15,949
So going back to and came, you know,

1099
00:40:15,949 --> 00:40:18,190
closer to Christ and sanctified and all these

1100
00:40:18,190 --> 00:40:19,389
things. So going back to the year of

1101
00:40:19,389 --> 00:40:22,204
sacrament example, like, what are some risks you

1102
00:40:22,204 --> 00:40:24,204
could take? Again, we're not saying, like, oh,

1103
00:40:24,204 --> 00:40:25,184
why don't we have

1104
00:40:25,565 --> 00:40:27,644
an atheist speak every other week? That'd be

1105
00:40:27,644 --> 00:40:30,625
risky. Like, no. There's some real ridiculous examples,

1106
00:40:30,684 --> 00:40:32,605
but what are some slight risks that we

1107
00:40:32,605 --> 00:40:33,949
could take that that are gonna push back

1108
00:40:33,949 --> 00:40:35,789
on the status quo? Because that is when

1109
00:40:35,789 --> 00:40:38,190
real leadership is demonstrated and lives are changed.

1110
00:40:38,190 --> 00:40:40,190
Right? Yeah. What we're talking about is the

1111
00:40:40,190 --> 00:40:43,549
difference between being comfort focused and being purpose

1112
00:40:43,549 --> 00:40:46,109
focused. Mhmm. And when we are purpose focused,

1113
00:40:46,109 --> 00:40:47,650
we just become intentional.

1114
00:40:48,264 --> 00:40:50,684
Right? So we're focused on creating

1115
00:40:51,065 --> 00:40:51,565
something,

1116
00:40:52,105 --> 00:40:55,065
whether that's certain feelings, certain experiences, whatever that

1117
00:40:55,065 --> 00:40:57,144
might be. We have a destination that we're

1118
00:40:57,144 --> 00:40:59,244
shooting for, and we become intentional

1119
00:40:59,545 --> 00:41:02,105
about getting there. When we don't have a

1120
00:41:02,105 --> 00:41:02,605
purpose,

1121
00:41:02,980 --> 00:41:05,699
when we don't have intentions, our default is

1122
00:41:05,699 --> 00:41:06,840
to just do

1123
00:41:07,219 --> 00:41:08,119
what is easy,

1124
00:41:08,420 --> 00:41:09,640
the status quo.

1125
00:41:09,940 --> 00:41:13,059
And now things get done, good things happen

1126
00:41:13,059 --> 00:41:15,699
there, but we've gotta ask ourselves, are we

1127
00:41:15,699 --> 00:41:16,760
having the positive

1128
00:41:17,059 --> 00:41:17,559
influence

1129
00:41:18,114 --> 00:41:19,795
that we want to have? And maybe even

1130
00:41:19,795 --> 00:41:21,954
at a deeper level, are we having the

1131
00:41:21,954 --> 00:41:23,094
positive influence

1132
00:41:23,795 --> 00:41:25,954
that God wants us to have while we're

1133
00:41:25,954 --> 00:41:27,414
in that position? Is

1134
00:41:27,715 --> 00:41:29,494
there's always this balance between

1135
00:41:29,954 --> 00:41:32,500
kind of, we've gotta stick to the handbook,

1136
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,820
which again isn't a bad thing, but

1137
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,500
but there's also the idea that God's empowering

1138
00:41:38,559 --> 00:41:40,260
us to do great things.

1139
00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:43,359
Like, Joseph Smith had to go out on

1140
00:41:43,359 --> 00:41:43,940
a limb

1141
00:41:44,394 --> 00:41:46,875
and try a wide variety of things before

1142
00:41:46,875 --> 00:41:48,635
he figured out what worked. Now we've got

1143
00:41:48,635 --> 00:41:50,474
a hundred you know, almost two hundred years

1144
00:41:50,474 --> 00:41:51,135
of experience

1145
00:41:51,595 --> 00:41:53,434
that we've figured out what works and what

1146
00:41:53,434 --> 00:41:55,914
doesn't, but at the same time, we've gotta

1147
00:41:55,914 --> 00:41:58,075
continually adapt. I think that's one of the

1148
00:41:58,075 --> 00:42:01,130
things that that we're seeing church leaders recognize.

1149
00:42:01,190 --> 00:42:02,489
President Nelson recognizes.

1150
00:42:02,949 --> 00:42:04,710
Look at all the change that has happened

1151
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:06,889
or since he's became the prophet.

1152
00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:08,969
We he recognizes that

1153
00:42:09,269 --> 00:42:12,089
we've got to adapt if we wanna better

1154
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:13,530
serve the spiritual,

1155
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:14,329
emotional,

1156
00:42:15,085 --> 00:42:18,125
temporal needs of Latter day Saints. Yeah. And

1157
00:42:18,125 --> 00:42:19,505
and that's where I mean,

1158
00:42:19,805 --> 00:42:22,285
that's faith. Right? I mean, it's easy to

1159
00:42:22,364 --> 00:42:24,204
in our own personal lives to know that

1160
00:42:24,204 --> 00:42:25,965
God's gonna give us a situation where we're

1161
00:42:25,965 --> 00:42:27,485
gonna have to take some steps forward. There's

1162
00:42:27,485 --> 00:42:29,005
gonna be some risks. We're gonna have to

1163
00:42:29,005 --> 00:42:31,440
lean into that faith because that's how we

1164
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,199
bless us. Like, that's the same thing in

1165
00:42:33,199 --> 00:42:36,000
our leadership experiences is we need to lean

1166
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,019
into some of these risky behaviors.

1167
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,880
Again, people can run with that, and I'll

1168
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,639
get hate mail for it. But, hopefully, people

1169
00:42:42,639 --> 00:42:44,684
get the concept is we lean into that,

1170
00:42:44,684 --> 00:42:46,704
and that's where we find greater sanctification,

1171
00:42:47,244 --> 00:42:49,885
a deeper experience with the savior, a deeper

1172
00:42:49,885 --> 00:42:51,105
experience with the doctrines

1173
00:42:51,485 --> 00:42:53,325
of the gospel. And I'm glad that you

1174
00:42:53,325 --> 00:42:56,219
mentioned this term, like, purpose. Like, going back

1175
00:42:56,219 --> 00:42:57,900
to your being the captain of the ship,

1176
00:42:57,900 --> 00:42:59,440
like, you have to have, like,

1177
00:42:59,739 --> 00:43:00,639
a goal or

1178
00:43:00,940 --> 00:43:02,699
a vision in place of where we want

1179
00:43:02,699 --> 00:43:03,760
to land the ship.

1180
00:43:04,139 --> 00:43:07,099
Because if you don't, then it's harder to

1181
00:43:07,099 --> 00:43:09,019
have an open mind about because because you

1182
00:43:09,019 --> 00:43:11,079
don't know where you're going, so you might

1183
00:43:11,079 --> 00:43:13,139
as well just stay closed minded. Right? And

1184
00:43:13,139 --> 00:43:15,198
that's why I always harp so much on

1185
00:43:15,198 --> 00:43:17,258
creating and developing vision in organization. And that's

1186
00:43:17,258 --> 00:43:19,833
really in order to be if you wanna

1187
00:43:19,833 --> 00:43:21,892
be more open minded, set a dynamic vision,

1188
00:43:21,892 --> 00:43:23,952
and then that'll give you plenty of opportunity

1189
00:43:23,952 --> 00:43:24,869
to exercise

1190
00:43:25,409 --> 00:43:27,250
open mindedness so that we can figure out

1191
00:43:27,250 --> 00:43:28,769
how to get to that that place. Right?

1192
00:43:28,769 --> 00:43:31,089
Yeah. I think you're right. Yep. Awesome. And

1193
00:43:31,089 --> 00:43:32,929
I I wrote this down. I wanna highlight

1194
00:43:32,929 --> 00:43:34,929
it. We probably beat this horse enough, but

1195
00:43:34,929 --> 00:43:38,144
just this visual of a bucket. Right? And

1196
00:43:38,204 --> 00:43:40,765
realizing, like, how full is your bucket? And

1197
00:43:40,765 --> 00:43:42,445
it's so easy to take the bucket and

1198
00:43:42,445 --> 00:43:44,445
say, well, we have the handbook. You know,

1199
00:43:44,445 --> 00:43:45,985
we have authority and and,

1200
00:43:46,365 --> 00:43:48,945
we have life success and, you know, we

1201
00:43:49,244 --> 00:43:51,150
we have the scriptures and we can we're

1202
00:43:51,150 --> 00:43:53,230
good. Like, we don't need any anything more.

1203
00:43:53,230 --> 00:43:55,309
And we're just going to our buckets full.

1204
00:43:55,309 --> 00:43:58,109
We're going to continue forward. But figuring out

1205
00:43:58,109 --> 00:44:00,109
ways and again, to create space in the

1206
00:44:00,109 --> 00:44:02,269
bucket doesn't mean you have to remove the

1207
00:44:02,269 --> 00:44:04,965
handbook or remove the scriptures. You just have

1208
00:44:04,965 --> 00:44:06,905
to get a mindset where we have abundance

1209
00:44:06,965 --> 00:44:09,285
saying there's more room here to learn. And

1210
00:44:09,285 --> 00:44:11,285
what what can we what can we discover

1211
00:44:11,285 --> 00:44:13,945
there? Right? Yeah. I'm gonna draw upon,

1212
00:44:14,325 --> 00:44:15,765
some of my experience when I was a

1213
00:44:15,765 --> 00:44:16,664
Gallup consultant.

1214
00:44:16,989 --> 00:44:19,469
So if people aren't familiar with Gallup, Gallup

1215
00:44:19,469 --> 00:44:22,510
goes into organizations and assesses employee engagement and

1216
00:44:22,510 --> 00:44:25,630
works with those organizations to develop greater employee

1217
00:44:25,630 --> 00:44:26,130
engagement.

1218
00:44:26,590 --> 00:44:29,170
And the way that we define engagement

1219
00:44:29,550 --> 00:44:30,050
is

1220
00:44:30,465 --> 00:44:33,425
somebody who is emotionally connected to their job

1221
00:44:33,425 --> 00:44:36,704
or organization such that it's characterized by vigor,

1222
00:44:36,704 --> 00:44:38,085
dedication, and absorption.

1223
00:44:38,625 --> 00:44:41,025
So I think when in other words, we

1224
00:44:41,025 --> 00:44:42,244
want people converted.

1225
00:44:42,699 --> 00:44:45,179
We want people who are emotionally connected, that

1226
00:44:45,179 --> 00:44:47,500
are vigorous, dedicated, and absorbed. I think that

1227
00:44:47,500 --> 00:44:48,480
explains exactly

1228
00:44:48,860 --> 00:44:51,099
what we're hoping Latter day Saints to have

1229
00:44:51,099 --> 00:44:52,480
with their church experience.

1230
00:44:52,940 --> 00:44:54,960
And so I think one of the purposes

1231
00:44:55,744 --> 00:44:58,405
that we can focus on as church leaders

1232
00:44:58,785 --> 00:44:59,684
is creating

1233
00:45:00,065 --> 00:45:00,565
engagement

1234
00:45:01,025 --> 00:45:04,385
with Latter day Saints. Yeah. And now Gallup's

1235
00:45:04,385 --> 00:45:06,785
got this measure that's got 12 questions. It's

1236
00:45:06,785 --> 00:45:08,625
called the q 12. You can Google it.

1237
00:45:08,625 --> 00:45:09,445
And it identifies

1238
00:45:10,144 --> 00:45:11,125
different factors

1239
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:13,420
that they found to drive engagement.

1240
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,760
And I've known about these factors prior to

1241
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,920
joining Gallup, but I always had the question,

1242
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,260
okay. While I get these 12 are important,

1243
00:45:21,559 --> 00:45:22,619
are there certain

1244
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,585
factors, maybe one or two, that are more

1245
00:45:25,585 --> 00:45:27,765
important than others for driving engagement?

1246
00:45:28,065 --> 00:45:29,505
And so as soon as I got my

1247
00:45:29,505 --> 00:45:31,505
hands on a decent amount of data, so

1248
00:45:31,505 --> 00:45:33,505
it's nine organizations, 60,000

1249
00:45:33,505 --> 00:45:34,005
employees,

1250
00:45:34,465 --> 00:45:36,164
I identified two factors

1251
00:45:36,545 --> 00:45:38,724
that are the most important for driving engagement.

1252
00:45:39,289 --> 00:45:40,909
So the number one factor

1253
00:45:41,369 --> 00:45:44,329
is an item that is my opinions count

1254
00:45:44,329 --> 00:45:46,489
at work. Now, if somebody could give a

1255
00:45:46,489 --> 00:45:49,289
five, meaning they strongly agreed to my opinions

1256
00:45:49,289 --> 00:45:50,650
count at work, or we could say my

1257
00:45:50,650 --> 00:45:52,030
opinions count at church,

1258
00:45:52,734 --> 00:45:53,855
95%

1259
00:45:53,855 --> 00:45:55,234
of them were engaged.

1260
00:45:55,775 --> 00:45:57,614
And this is in a database where only

1261
00:45:57,614 --> 00:46:00,034
30% of The US population is engaged.

1262
00:46:00,494 --> 00:46:02,734
So this is a slam dunk, if my

1263
00:46:02,734 --> 00:46:05,554
opinions count at church, I'm gonna be engaged.

1264
00:46:06,059 --> 00:46:07,840
The second factor is

1265
00:46:08,219 --> 00:46:11,019
an item that somebody at work, or we

1266
00:46:11,019 --> 00:46:13,099
could say at church, cares about me as

1267
00:46:13,099 --> 00:46:14,960
a person. And if somebody

1268
00:46:15,500 --> 00:46:18,140
couldn't strongly agree, meaning they gave a one

1269
00:46:18,140 --> 00:46:18,880
through four,

1270
00:46:19,304 --> 00:46:20,344
only 12%

1271
00:46:20,344 --> 00:46:21,804
of those people were engaged.

1272
00:46:22,264 --> 00:46:23,324
So what this means

1273
00:46:23,625 --> 00:46:26,025
that if we want members of our church

1274
00:46:26,025 --> 00:46:28,125
to be engaged, we've got to create

1275
00:46:28,664 --> 00:46:31,569
opportunities for their opinions to be heard, and

1276
00:46:31,569 --> 00:46:33,989
we've gotta make them feel like they are

1277
00:46:34,049 --> 00:46:35,829
loved and valued as a person.

1278
00:46:36,130 --> 00:46:38,449
Yeah. And I even even tweak the opinions

1279
00:46:38,449 --> 00:46:40,289
to, like, perspectives. Like, I just want when

1280
00:46:40,289 --> 00:46:42,150
I go to church, I want my perspective

1281
00:46:42,289 --> 00:46:44,230
to be considered and valued.

1282
00:46:44,594 --> 00:46:46,835
Yeah. And so one of the challenges that

1283
00:46:46,835 --> 00:46:48,355
I think that we have is now that

1284
00:46:48,355 --> 00:46:50,755
we've reduced down to a two hour church

1285
00:46:50,755 --> 00:46:53,795
windows, we now have less opportunities to have

1286
00:46:53,795 --> 00:46:56,275
our opinions heard and to be valued by

1287
00:46:56,275 --> 00:46:58,940
others. Yeah. And this is really problematic. So

1288
00:46:58,940 --> 00:46:59,440
historically,

1289
00:47:00,059 --> 00:47:02,079
I would say the typical approach

1290
00:47:02,380 --> 00:47:02,880
to,

1291
00:47:03,179 --> 00:47:04,940
let's just say, a Sunday school lesson or

1292
00:47:04,940 --> 00:47:07,679
a Relief Society or Elder's Quorum lesson is

1293
00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:10,940
I'm going to deliver you the information that

1294
00:47:10,940 --> 00:47:12,764
is in the manual or in this church

1295
00:47:12,764 --> 00:47:15,005
talk. Like, it's almost like I have the

1296
00:47:15,005 --> 00:47:17,484
flash drive of information, and I just wanna

1297
00:47:17,484 --> 00:47:18,625
plug it into you

1298
00:47:18,925 --> 00:47:20,784
so that you leave with this information.

1299
00:47:21,164 --> 00:47:23,505
But, unfortunately, that's just not

1300
00:47:23,804 --> 00:47:24,545
an engaging

1301
00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:28,559
situation for our church members because they don't

1302
00:47:28,559 --> 00:47:31,380
have the ability to have their opinions heard.

1303
00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:34,719
And it's really difficult for people who may

1304
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,619
have, you might say, more liberal perspectives.

1305
00:47:38,385 --> 00:47:40,625
Is what happens if you have a perspective

1306
00:47:40,625 --> 00:47:42,164
that is different than the majority?

1307
00:47:42,704 --> 00:47:44,945
What is the likelihood that your voice is

1308
00:47:44,945 --> 00:47:46,945
going to be heard? And so if we're

1309
00:47:46,945 --> 00:47:47,525
a leader

1310
00:47:47,824 --> 00:47:49,284
and we want everybody

1311
00:47:49,744 --> 00:47:51,684
to come unto Christ to

1312
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,380
be emotionally connected and converted to the gospel,

1313
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:57,619
we as a leader have got to create

1314
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:59,059
contexts and situations

1315
00:47:59,519 --> 00:48:01,219
in which that can occur.

1316
00:48:01,519 --> 00:48:04,000
Which, based upon research and these mindsets, we've

1317
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,320
got to have an open mindset, open to

1318
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,454
the ideas and suggestions of others, and we've

1319
00:48:08,454 --> 00:48:11,734
got to see others as people and value

1320
00:48:11,734 --> 00:48:13,974
them as such. And not as, you know,

1321
00:48:13,974 --> 00:48:15,734
objects that may get in our way because

1322
00:48:15,734 --> 00:48:18,454
they said something that may go against what

1323
00:48:18,454 --> 00:48:19,755
I personally believe.

1324
00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:21,989
Yeah. No. This I'm glad you brought up

1325
00:48:21,989 --> 00:48:24,170
this this concept of engagement because,

1326
00:48:24,630 --> 00:48:26,789
like, I mean, the statistics you share from

1327
00:48:26,789 --> 00:48:28,630
Gallup as far as, like, 30%

1328
00:48:28,630 --> 00:48:29,449
of the workforce

1329
00:48:29,829 --> 00:48:32,710
is engaged at work. Like, holy smokes. Imagine

1330
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:34,775
what we could do as a country if

1331
00:48:34,775 --> 00:48:37,815
we were even half engaged. I mean, we're

1332
00:48:37,815 --> 00:48:39,494
seen as this powerhouse in in the world,

1333
00:48:39,494 --> 00:48:41,735
and there's so much more we could do

1334
00:48:41,735 --> 00:48:43,575
and draw upon. And then putting that into

1335
00:48:43,575 --> 00:48:45,894
church concept, it's easy as a leader to

1336
00:48:45,894 --> 00:48:47,655
sometimes get in this mode of, like, listen.

1337
00:48:47,655 --> 00:48:50,449
Like, the sacrament is the most important thing

1338
00:48:50,449 --> 00:48:51,570
for people to do when they come to

1339
00:48:51,570 --> 00:48:52,929
church, and I would agree with that. Right?

1340
00:48:52,929 --> 00:48:55,109
So we provide the sacrament. It's there.

1341
00:48:55,409 --> 00:48:57,409
And, great, they can come and do that.

1342
00:48:57,409 --> 00:48:59,170
But there's so many times I've even felt

1343
00:48:59,170 --> 00:49:01,250
this in my own church experience where I

1344
00:49:01,250 --> 00:49:03,010
sort of leave after the two hours, I

1345
00:49:03,010 --> 00:49:05,515
think, yeah. You know, I sat through Sunday

1346
00:49:05,515 --> 00:49:08,335
school, but I didn't give give an opportunity

1347
00:49:08,394 --> 00:49:10,315
to share. Or even if I was, I

1348
00:49:10,315 --> 00:49:13,355
didn't feel necessarily comfortable. Right? Psychological safety of

1349
00:49:13,355 --> 00:49:15,434
opening my mouth and saying anything. And so

1350
00:49:15,434 --> 00:49:18,309
I love this concept of by considering your

1351
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:20,809
mindset, you can actually increase engagement

1352
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:22,409
in your organization

1353
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:26,070
by increasing people's voice and increasing their their

1354
00:49:26,070 --> 00:49:27,589
care. And, I mean, I just think of

1355
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:29,909
a Sunday school presence sitting down, a Sunday

1356
00:49:29,909 --> 00:49:32,585
school presidency, and saying, okay. How can we

1357
00:49:32,585 --> 00:49:34,904
increase engagement? Alright. Listen to this crazy Ryan

1358
00:49:34,904 --> 00:49:37,065
guy, and he said it's through increasing their

1359
00:49:37,065 --> 00:49:40,424
voice and increasing how they that people feel

1360
00:49:40,585 --> 00:49:42,505
that they feel cared about. Yep. And so

1361
00:49:42,505 --> 00:49:44,369
how can we do that in Sunday school?

1362
00:49:44,450 --> 00:49:46,050
Wow. Let's talk with our teachers, and we're

1363
00:49:46,050 --> 00:49:47,970
we're gonna say no more lectures, no more

1364
00:49:47,970 --> 00:49:50,530
preparing all this stuff and, you know, dumping

1365
00:49:50,530 --> 00:49:52,210
it on on the class. What can you

1366
00:49:52,210 --> 00:49:53,750
do to stimulate relationships

1367
00:49:54,050 --> 00:49:55,890
in a Sunday school class? Do we need

1368
00:49:55,890 --> 00:49:57,170
to break up in rooms? Do we need

1369
00:49:57,170 --> 00:49:58,875
to have smaller classes? Do we need to

1370
00:49:58,875 --> 00:50:00,595
rotate who teaches more? Like, do we need

1371
00:50:00,595 --> 00:50:02,755
to have team teachers that teach together when

1372
00:50:02,755 --> 00:50:05,215
we like, there's so many, but these questions

1373
00:50:05,275 --> 00:50:07,755
are what stimulate the mind of creating engagement,

1374
00:50:07,755 --> 00:50:10,414
and it starts with that mindset. Right? Yep.

1375
00:50:10,739 --> 00:50:12,739
Awesome. Where are we going next? We've talked

1376
00:50:12,739 --> 00:50:14,920
about, the importance of purpose, engagements.

1377
00:50:15,380 --> 00:50:17,460
Anything else as far as, like I think

1378
00:50:17,460 --> 00:50:19,320
we've generally understood

1379
00:50:19,780 --> 00:50:22,820
mindsets and and really and maybe this is

1380
00:50:22,820 --> 00:50:24,739
another model. But as I read your book,

1381
00:50:24,739 --> 00:50:26,984
there's just this if I was to summarize

1382
00:50:27,045 --> 00:50:29,364
the mindset, it's like it's just the the

1383
00:50:29,364 --> 00:50:32,085
optimism versus pessimism or the the cup is

1384
00:50:32,085 --> 00:50:34,264
is half full, the bucket is half full,

1385
00:50:34,405 --> 00:50:37,045
and and there's an abundance mentality and just

1386
00:50:37,045 --> 00:50:38,184
maintaining positivity

1387
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,400
and moving forward that way. Right? I mean,

1388
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:41,779
that's the the general message.

1389
00:50:42,159 --> 00:50:44,480
Yeah. It's a general message, but it's a

1390
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:45,699
little bit too oversimplified.

1391
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,599
Like, I'm there with you. It it is

1392
00:50:47,599 --> 00:50:50,099
the general message, but here's what's really interesting.

1393
00:50:50,559 --> 00:50:53,119
So I have a personal mindset assessment. Anybody

1394
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:54,865
could take it. It's on my website. It's

1395
00:50:54,865 --> 00:50:56,164
free. It's 20 questions,

1396
00:50:56,545 --> 00:50:58,385
and you can get your results of the

1397
00:50:58,385 --> 00:50:59,925
quality of your mindsets

1398
00:51:00,224 --> 00:51:02,005
across each of these four continuums

1399
00:51:02,545 --> 00:51:05,105
relative to about 10,000 other people who have

1400
00:51:05,105 --> 00:51:06,085
taken the assessment.

1401
00:51:06,489 --> 00:51:08,969
And what I found across this database is

1402
00:51:08,969 --> 00:51:10,090
a couple of things that I think are

1403
00:51:10,090 --> 00:51:11,309
really interesting. One

1404
00:51:11,610 --> 00:51:14,250
is that only five percent of all people

1405
00:51:14,250 --> 00:51:15,469
who have taken the assessment

1406
00:51:15,769 --> 00:51:18,170
are in the top quartile for all four

1407
00:51:18,170 --> 00:51:19,309
sets of these mindsets.

1408
00:51:20,054 --> 00:51:22,135
That means that most of us have work

1409
00:51:22,135 --> 00:51:23,914
to do with regards to our mindsets.

1410
00:51:24,375 --> 00:51:26,295
Even those of us who are trying our

1411
00:51:26,295 --> 00:51:28,775
best and think that our mindsets are really

1412
00:51:28,775 --> 00:51:31,094
good. Because, again, it's not you can't just

1413
00:51:31,094 --> 00:51:33,014
say, I'm gonna just have him maintain a

1414
00:51:33,014 --> 00:51:34,635
positive attitude because

1415
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,000
because the best intentions don't mean that you're

1416
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,819
open minded or that you're benefiting your organization.

1417
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,440
Right? Yep. Exactly. The other thing that's really

1418
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:43,500
interesting is

1419
00:51:44,039 --> 00:51:46,380
I expected there to be a correlation

1420
00:51:46,839 --> 00:51:49,105
across the positive mindset. So let's just say

1421
00:51:49,105 --> 00:51:50,945
if I'm more open minded, I'm gonna be

1422
00:51:50,945 --> 00:51:52,565
more likely to be growth minded.

1423
00:51:52,945 --> 00:51:54,945
And what we found is that it's actually

1424
00:51:55,025 --> 00:51:56,485
they're not very correlated.

1425
00:51:56,945 --> 00:51:57,445
That

1426
00:51:57,744 --> 00:52:00,305
it's almost equally likely to have somebody who

1427
00:52:00,305 --> 00:52:03,170
has a strong closed mindset to also have

1428
00:52:03,170 --> 00:52:04,949
a strong growth mindset

1429
00:52:05,329 --> 00:52:07,730
as opposed to somebody who's, you know, strong

1430
00:52:07,730 --> 00:52:09,670
growth and strong open.

1431
00:52:09,969 --> 00:52:11,650
And so what this means is that these

1432
00:52:11,650 --> 00:52:14,789
are very distinct and different lenses

1433
00:52:15,264 --> 00:52:16,324
that we are wearing.

1434
00:52:16,625 --> 00:52:18,864
And so when we say, you know, it's

1435
00:52:18,864 --> 00:52:21,364
cup is full versus cup is half empty,

1436
00:52:21,744 --> 00:52:23,664
it's more than just that because there's a

1437
00:52:23,664 --> 00:52:24,484
lot of complexity

1438
00:52:25,264 --> 00:52:28,224
across these mindsets that what we're bringing to

1439
00:52:28,224 --> 00:52:28,885
the table

1440
00:52:29,230 --> 00:52:31,710
is very unique to us, that truly our

1441
00:52:31,710 --> 00:52:34,269
mindsets are unique. And, again, it just doesn't

1442
00:52:34,269 --> 00:52:36,989
necessarily mean that they're the best. Gotcha. And

1443
00:52:36,989 --> 00:52:39,170
so my guess is if if we can

1444
00:52:39,630 --> 00:52:41,809
awaken to our mindsets so take the assessment,

1445
00:52:42,030 --> 00:52:44,824
awaken to our mindsets, We'll get some clarity

1446
00:52:45,284 --> 00:52:48,405
on where we can improve our mindsets to

1447
00:52:48,405 --> 00:52:50,405
have more of the positive influence that we

1448
00:52:50,405 --> 00:52:52,724
wanna have and become more of our ideal

1449
00:52:52,724 --> 00:52:55,284
selves. Yeah. That's great. Because because so going

1450
00:52:55,284 --> 00:52:57,045
back to that, that some may have a

1451
00:52:57,045 --> 00:52:58,824
closed mindset but a high growth

1452
00:52:59,159 --> 00:53:01,239
experience. So, like, you may have a bad

1453
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:02,619
boss that's close minded,

1454
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:04,760
but he's still really successful in this career.

1455
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,599
Is that what you're talking about? Well, so

1456
00:53:06,599 --> 00:53:08,359
when we think about, like, let's just say

1457
00:53:08,359 --> 00:53:11,179
a growth mindset, this means that we believe

1458
00:53:11,494 --> 00:53:13,894
that we and others can improve our talents,

1459
00:53:13,894 --> 00:53:15,035
abilities, and intelligence.

1460
00:53:15,414 --> 00:53:17,434
Okay. And when we have that belief,

1461
00:53:17,974 --> 00:53:19,835
we look for opportunities

1462
00:53:20,295 --> 00:53:22,215
to learn and grow because we believe that

1463
00:53:22,215 --> 00:53:24,535
we can. And we don't see challenge and

1464
00:53:24,535 --> 00:53:26,074
failure as bad things.

1465
00:53:26,409 --> 00:53:28,409
So we can believe that we can learn

1466
00:53:28,409 --> 00:53:29,070
and grow,

1467
00:53:29,530 --> 00:53:32,250
but we can also still believe that what

1468
00:53:32,250 --> 00:53:33,389
I know is best.

1469
00:53:34,170 --> 00:53:36,250
Gotcha. And so so those are still the

1470
00:53:36,250 --> 00:53:38,489
same. Let me just talk about the fixed

1471
00:53:38,489 --> 00:53:40,730
mindset side. So if we don't believe that

1472
00:53:40,730 --> 00:53:42,434
we can learn and grow, we have a

1473
00:53:42,434 --> 00:53:44,275
tendency to think that people are who they

1474
00:53:44,275 --> 00:53:46,215
are and there's nothing we can do about

1475
00:53:46,355 --> 00:53:47,875
it. So we see the world in terms

1476
00:53:47,875 --> 00:53:49,575
of haves or have nots,

1477
00:53:50,114 --> 00:53:51,795
and we want to be seen as a

1478
00:53:51,795 --> 00:53:54,135
have. So when we have a fixed mindset,

1479
00:53:54,869 --> 00:53:57,829
when we encounter challenges, we're likely to back

1480
00:53:57,829 --> 00:54:00,569
away from them because we're afraid of failing.

1481
00:54:00,949 --> 00:54:02,869
And we see that if we fail, we're

1482
00:54:02,869 --> 00:54:04,809
gonna be seen as a have not.

1483
00:54:05,190 --> 00:54:07,769
And so those that with a fixed mindset,

1484
00:54:07,989 --> 00:54:10,489
their primary focus becomes on looking good

1485
00:54:10,844 --> 00:54:13,425
as opposed to actually learning and growing.

1486
00:54:13,804 --> 00:54:16,125
And this is really interesting because one of

1487
00:54:16,125 --> 00:54:17,965
the pieces of of research that has come

1488
00:54:17,965 --> 00:54:20,045
out from this that affects, I believe, church

1489
00:54:20,045 --> 00:54:20,545
leaders,

1490
00:54:20,844 --> 00:54:22,764
is that if we have a fixed mindset,

1491
00:54:22,764 --> 00:54:24,925
and roughly about half of the population has

1492
00:54:24,925 --> 00:54:25,824
a fixed mindset,

1493
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:27,940
we are going to be less inclined

1494
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:28,980
to develop

1495
00:54:29,359 --> 00:54:31,359
those that we work with. Whereas if we

1496
00:54:31,359 --> 00:54:33,199
have a growth mindset, we're gonna be more

1497
00:54:33,199 --> 00:54:35,619
inclined because we believe that they could change.

1498
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,079
So as a leader, if we have a

1499
00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:38,900
fixed mindset,

1500
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:40,579
we are going to unintentionally

1501
00:54:41,704 --> 00:54:45,065
avoid probably working with people that we deem

1502
00:54:45,065 --> 00:54:45,965
as have nots.

1503
00:54:46,344 --> 00:54:47,164
They're hopeless.

1504
00:54:47,545 --> 00:54:49,085
They're never going to change.

1505
00:54:49,545 --> 00:54:51,945
So we're gonna stop investing in them. Whereas

1506
00:54:51,945 --> 00:54:53,909
those with the growth mindset are gonna see,

1507
00:54:53,989 --> 00:54:55,589
these are people that I can work with

1508
00:54:55,589 --> 00:54:57,109
and develop. And so as you gave that

1509
00:54:57,109 --> 00:54:59,349
example of this woman who had, you know,

1510
00:54:59,349 --> 00:55:02,409
a checkered past, who then gained this

1511
00:55:02,869 --> 00:55:05,190
admission to go on a mission, it seems

1512
00:55:05,190 --> 00:55:06,010
pretty obviously

1513
00:55:06,389 --> 00:55:08,630
that this individual has more of a growth

1514
00:55:08,630 --> 00:55:09,130
mindset

1515
00:55:09,614 --> 00:55:12,195
because he believed that this person can change.

1516
00:55:12,414 --> 00:55:14,034
And, again, it's interesting because

1517
00:55:14,414 --> 00:55:15,875
50% of the population

1518
00:55:16,494 --> 00:55:18,434
tends to have more of a fixed mindset.

1519
00:55:19,534 --> 00:55:21,295
And I can see it, especially when you're

1520
00:55:21,614 --> 00:55:23,954
when you bring repentance into the mix.

1521
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,599
If you have a a more of a

1522
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:28,079
fixed mindset thinking people are as they are

1523
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:30,019
and rarely do they ever change,

1524
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,800
then you're not gonna bring much hope to

1525
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:33,460
the conversation

1526
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,760
even if you don't realize you're in that

1527
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,000
state. Right? And even if you're yourself, if

1528
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,440
I have a fixed mindset and I'm the

1529
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:40,215
one who sinned,

1530
00:55:40,614 --> 00:55:42,614
like, I'm kinda stuck with this. Let me

1531
00:55:42,614 --> 00:55:44,055
give you another example of where I've seen

1532
00:55:44,055 --> 00:55:45,195
this play out in the church.

1533
00:55:45,494 --> 00:55:47,094
And this comes from when I was a

1534
00:55:47,094 --> 00:55:49,275
a sac or a Sunday school president.

1535
00:55:49,575 --> 00:55:51,815
And whenever we would have a gospel doctor

1536
00:55:51,815 --> 00:55:53,655
and teacher is gonna be out of town,

1537
00:55:53,655 --> 00:55:55,900
I would call up folks to ask to

1538
00:55:55,900 --> 00:55:56,880
sub the class.

1539
00:55:58,059 --> 00:56:00,219
And without fail, I had to talk to

1540
00:56:00,219 --> 00:56:00,960
at least

1541
00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:03,840
six people before I got a yes.

1542
00:56:04,219 --> 00:56:05,900
So I would call people up and say,

1543
00:56:05,900 --> 00:56:07,179
hey. I think you would do a great

1544
00:56:07,179 --> 00:56:10,105
job teaching in Sunday school. I think it

1545
00:56:10,105 --> 00:56:11,545
would be a great opportunity for you to

1546
00:56:11,545 --> 00:56:13,625
learn, but also contribute to the ward in

1547
00:56:13,625 --> 00:56:15,325
a way that you don't normally contribute.

1548
00:56:15,704 --> 00:56:18,025
And they would say, yeah, I'm just not

1549
00:56:18,025 --> 00:56:18,844
very comfortable

1550
00:56:19,465 --> 00:56:21,704
getting up in front of the Sunday school.

1551
00:56:21,704 --> 00:56:23,805
I just don't feel confident in myself.

1552
00:56:24,110 --> 00:56:26,369
And what is taking over in these situations

1553
00:56:26,989 --> 00:56:28,210
is a fixed mindset.

1554
00:56:28,829 --> 00:56:31,329
Because in those moments, these individuals

1555
00:56:31,630 --> 00:56:33,949
are more focused on how they are going

1556
00:56:33,949 --> 00:56:34,610
to look

1557
00:56:34,989 --> 00:56:36,750
than how much they are going to learn

1558
00:56:36,750 --> 00:56:37,409
and grow.

1559
00:56:37,734 --> 00:56:39,275
They're afraid that if they

1560
00:56:39,574 --> 00:56:42,155
get up there because they're not the expert

1561
00:56:42,214 --> 00:56:42,714
or

1562
00:56:43,014 --> 00:56:44,554
they don't have as much experience

1563
00:56:45,014 --> 00:56:46,934
I mean, this is a challenge for them.

1564
00:56:46,934 --> 00:56:48,695
And if we have a fixed mindset, we're

1565
00:56:48,695 --> 00:56:50,934
gonna back away from this challenge because we're

1566
00:56:50,934 --> 00:56:53,989
afraid of looking bad. Whereas those people that

1567
00:56:53,989 --> 00:56:55,210
have a growth mindset,

1568
00:56:55,510 --> 00:56:57,349
they're the ones that, yeah, I'll take it

1569
00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:58,469
on. I don't know what the heck I'm

1570
00:56:58,469 --> 00:57:00,309
doing, but I'll take it on because I

1571
00:57:00,309 --> 00:57:02,789
know that I will learn and grow as

1572
00:57:02,789 --> 00:57:03,929
a part of the process.

1573
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:06,325
And so, you know, if you're listening to

1574
00:57:06,325 --> 00:57:08,724
this, which one are you? If you're invited

1575
00:57:08,724 --> 00:57:09,545
to do something,

1576
00:57:09,925 --> 00:57:11,844
are you the one that kind of, yeah,

1577
00:57:11,844 --> 00:57:12,344
I'm

1578
00:57:12,724 --> 00:57:14,325
a little leery. I'm not gonna I don't

1579
00:57:14,325 --> 00:57:16,325
feel comfortable doing this because it may make

1580
00:57:16,325 --> 00:57:18,405
me look bad. Or are you somebody that

1581
00:57:18,405 --> 00:57:19,625
says, bring it on

1582
00:57:19,929 --> 00:57:22,570
because this is a unique opportunity to stretch

1583
00:57:22,570 --> 00:57:23,070
myself?

1584
00:57:23,369 --> 00:57:25,769
And at play, I mean, both we ask

1585
00:57:25,769 --> 00:57:28,269
these two individuals who respond very differently,

1586
00:57:28,570 --> 00:57:30,489
are you doing the best that you can?

1587
00:57:30,489 --> 00:57:32,349
And I think both of them say yes.

1588
00:57:32,494 --> 00:57:35,375
But the reality is is that one is

1589
00:57:35,375 --> 00:57:37,614
going to learn, grow, and develop, and become

1590
00:57:37,614 --> 00:57:39,554
a better disciple of Jesus Christ

1591
00:57:39,934 --> 00:57:41,155
than the other because

1592
00:57:41,454 --> 00:57:42,594
they're less reluctant

1593
00:57:43,215 --> 00:57:45,695
to stretch themselves and put themselves out there

1594
00:57:45,695 --> 00:57:48,019
in a way that will help them to

1595
00:57:48,019 --> 00:57:50,099
learn and grow. Yeah. And then there's so

1596
00:57:50,099 --> 00:57:52,179
much, to dissect there, but it it's true

1597
00:57:52,179 --> 00:57:53,940
that, you know and, again, it's just sort

1598
00:57:53,940 --> 00:57:55,780
of being open to getting out of your

1599
00:57:55,780 --> 00:57:57,539
comfort zone because that's where the growth happens.

1600
00:57:57,539 --> 00:58:00,019
But in a doctrinal context, that's where the

1601
00:58:00,019 --> 00:58:00,519
sanctification

1602
00:58:00,900 --> 00:58:02,359
happens. That's where we actually

1603
00:58:02,715 --> 00:58:04,954
become more become more like our father in

1604
00:58:04,954 --> 00:58:07,135
heaven when we're when we're in these,

1605
00:58:07,515 --> 00:58:09,035
when we get out of our fixed mindset

1606
00:58:09,035 --> 00:58:10,795
saying, I'm not the person that does that.

1607
00:58:10,795 --> 00:58:13,035
I'm not I'm not a public speaker. You

1608
00:58:13,035 --> 00:58:14,715
know, I it's just not me, so I'd

1609
00:58:14,715 --> 00:58:16,880
rather not do that. And maybe it is

1610
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,519
like, if someone was to throw me in

1611
00:58:19,519 --> 00:58:21,680
a van and take me to an airport

1612
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:23,599
and say you're gonna skydive today, I'd probably

1613
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:25,519
be like, no. Like, really, I'm not gonna

1614
00:58:25,519 --> 00:58:27,519
do that. And so it's really, like, as

1615
00:58:27,519 --> 00:58:29,360
a leader sort of finding that balance, like,

1616
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,195
okay. Listen. You don't need to speak in

1617
00:58:31,195 --> 00:58:33,355
sacraman, but would you be open to teaching

1618
00:58:33,355 --> 00:58:35,275
the sun beams? Can we start there? Right?

1619
00:58:35,275 --> 00:58:37,514
And we wanna give you opportunities for growth.

1620
00:58:37,514 --> 00:58:39,034
Right? And so you're sure sort of trying

1621
00:58:39,034 --> 00:58:41,355
to find where to push enough, but not

1622
00:58:41,355 --> 00:58:43,275
too much where it just completely shuts them

1623
00:58:43,275 --> 00:58:45,214
off and and makes them retreat.

1624
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,059
Yeah. Kurt, I don't know about your experience,

1625
00:58:48,359 --> 00:58:50,199
but here's the question that's popping in my

1626
00:58:50,199 --> 00:58:52,760
head as you're saying this. When does the

1627
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:54,940
spirit kick in to help us out?

1628
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,960
Does it kick in when we are confident

1629
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:58,699
and comfortable

1630
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,085
in doing what we're doing, Or does it

1631
00:59:01,085 --> 00:59:03,644
kick in when we're not confident and when

1632
00:59:03,644 --> 00:59:04,625
we're not comfortable?

1633
00:59:05,005 --> 00:59:07,244
That we get elevated by the spirit when

1634
00:59:07,244 --> 00:59:09,664
we put ourselves in those situations. And so

1635
00:59:09,804 --> 00:59:12,045
even let's go back to these four desires

1636
00:59:12,045 --> 00:59:14,730
on the negative side and versus the positive.

1637
00:59:14,730 --> 00:59:16,989
Desire to look good, be right,

1638
00:59:17,289 --> 00:59:18,269
avoid problems,

1639
00:59:18,650 --> 00:59:20,989
and get ahead. Do you think the spirit

1640
00:59:21,530 --> 00:59:23,469
is there when we have those desires?

1641
00:59:24,090 --> 00:59:25,769
I don't think so. I think the spirit

1642
00:59:25,769 --> 00:59:28,090
is there when we're focused on learning and

1643
00:59:28,090 --> 00:59:28,590
growing,

1644
00:59:28,965 --> 00:59:32,025
finding truth, reaching goals, and lifting others.

1645
00:59:32,405 --> 00:59:33,925
Yeah. And so at the end of the

1646
00:59:33,925 --> 00:59:34,425
day,

1647
00:59:34,724 --> 00:59:35,945
I think our mindsets

1648
00:59:36,565 --> 00:59:37,545
actually dictate

1649
00:59:37,845 --> 00:59:40,644
the degree to which we have interactions with

1650
00:59:40,644 --> 00:59:41,305
the spirit,

1651
00:59:41,619 --> 00:59:43,400
that we we get

1652
00:59:43,859 --> 00:59:44,359
uplifted

1653
00:59:44,820 --> 00:59:46,359
and strengthened and comforted

1654
00:59:46,820 --> 00:59:49,380
is when we are operating with these more

1655
00:59:49,380 --> 00:59:52,359
positive mindsets and have these more positive desires.

1656
00:59:52,659 --> 00:59:54,739
Yeah. And, again, I mean, you really wrote

1657
00:59:54,739 --> 00:59:56,464
a book about faith here, Ryan. I don't

1658
00:59:56,464 --> 00:59:58,025
know if you realize that. But, I mean,

1659
00:59:58,025 --> 00:59:59,704
just look at the grander scheme of things.

1660
00:59:59,704 --> 01:00:01,385
When we're done with this life and we

1661
01:00:01,385 --> 01:00:03,164
go back and meet our maker, and he

1662
01:00:03,385 --> 01:00:05,385
he says, you never leaned in anything. You

1663
01:00:05,385 --> 01:00:07,065
know, you never got out of that comfort

1664
01:00:07,065 --> 01:00:09,385
zone, and you haven't really changed much. You

1665
01:00:09,385 --> 01:00:10,444
know? And and

1666
01:00:10,869 --> 01:00:13,750
so, yeah, this is, you know, doctrines found

1667
01:00:13,750 --> 01:00:16,469
in all truth, obviously. And so there's so

1668
01:00:16,469 --> 01:00:18,250
much value in really analyzing,

1669
01:00:18,710 --> 01:00:20,869
one, on a personal level, how where's are

1670
01:00:20,869 --> 01:00:22,230
we of a fixed am am I of

1671
01:00:22,230 --> 01:00:23,050
a fixed mindset?

1672
01:00:23,375 --> 01:00:25,934
Or even on an organizational level, are we

1673
01:00:25,934 --> 01:00:27,855
of a fixed mindset or an open mindset

1674
01:00:27,855 --> 01:00:29,614
with with how we do things in the

1675
01:00:29,614 --> 01:00:31,375
world, or do we always play it safe?

1676
01:00:31,375 --> 01:00:32,894
Do I always have the activity that we've

1677
01:00:32,894 --> 01:00:34,815
done for years because that's just how we've

1678
01:00:34,815 --> 01:00:37,059
always done it. Right? And, but there's so

1679
01:00:37,059 --> 01:00:38,900
much growth could be happening as we push

1680
01:00:38,900 --> 01:00:41,480
against the status quo and and challenge ourselves

1681
01:00:41,539 --> 01:00:43,480
as individuals and as organizations.

1682
01:00:43,940 --> 01:00:45,159
Mhmm. Awesome.

1683
01:00:45,539 --> 01:00:47,780
So I wanted to, maybe we'll go here

1684
01:00:47,780 --> 01:00:49,239
at this point. As far like,

1685
01:00:49,554 --> 01:00:51,175
what do we do with the leader that

1686
01:00:51,315 --> 01:00:53,074
we we have that bishop that is so

1687
01:00:53,074 --> 01:00:54,994
close minded, I can barely show up to

1688
01:00:54,994 --> 01:00:56,675
church on Sunday. Like, I get these emails.

1689
01:00:56,675 --> 01:00:58,994
Right? So what do we do when we're

1690
01:00:58,994 --> 01:01:01,735
part of organization where the leadership isn't as

1691
01:01:02,079 --> 01:01:04,079
open minded as we or it doesn't have

1692
01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:04,659
the mindset

1693
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:06,420
that we'd like them to have?

1694
01:01:06,719 --> 01:01:08,400
Yeah. Well, you give them one of my

1695
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:08,900
books.

1696
01:01:09,199 --> 01:01:10,019
Okay. Perfect.

1697
01:01:11,199 --> 01:01:11,699
But

1698
01:01:12,719 --> 01:01:13,619
no. I think

1699
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,239
this is something where one, you you mentioned

1700
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:17,859
earlier. We've got to approach

1701
01:01:18,425 --> 01:01:20,664
them with the right mindset. We've got to

1702
01:01:20,664 --> 01:01:21,804
recognize that

1703
01:01:22,105 --> 01:01:24,284
they believe that what they're doing is best,

1704
01:01:24,664 --> 01:01:26,664
and that leads us to ask what is

1705
01:01:26,664 --> 01:01:28,585
going on in their life that is leading

1706
01:01:28,585 --> 01:01:30,105
them to believe that this is the best

1707
01:01:30,105 --> 01:01:32,280
way to live. Right? So if they are

1708
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,940
being closed minded, they're feeling pressure

1709
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:36,780
to be seen as right.

1710
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:38,460
If they are

1711
01:01:39,079 --> 01:01:40,460
kind of comfort focused,

1712
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:42,699
they may be receiving pressure

1713
01:01:43,239 --> 01:01:45,614
to want to avoid problems. They may have

1714
01:01:45,614 --> 01:01:47,614
a lot of demands outside of their current

1715
01:01:47,614 --> 01:01:50,494
leadership position that's causing them to have more

1716
01:01:50,494 --> 01:01:51,875
of this negative mindset.

1717
01:01:52,335 --> 01:01:55,135
So, one, we need to recognize that. And

1718
01:01:55,135 --> 01:01:57,535
then, two, once we can kinda recognize where

1719
01:01:57,535 --> 01:02:00,170
we're coming from, then it helps us identify

1720
01:02:01,030 --> 01:02:01,849
how do we

1721
01:02:02,150 --> 01:02:03,130
help them feel

1722
01:02:04,230 --> 01:02:05,289
greater safety

1723
01:02:05,989 --> 01:02:08,170
with regards to what they're experiencing.

1724
01:02:08,710 --> 01:02:09,210
And

1725
01:02:09,750 --> 01:02:11,670
and and if we can just approach them

1726
01:02:11,670 --> 01:02:12,570
with, okay.

1727
01:02:12,914 --> 01:02:15,554
I see where their negative mindset is. Let

1728
01:02:15,554 --> 01:02:16,454
me address

1729
01:02:16,755 --> 01:02:18,855
some of the issues that is causing that.

1730
01:02:18,994 --> 01:02:21,414
Let me dive into that, or let me

1731
01:02:21,954 --> 01:02:22,855
maybe present

1732
01:02:23,394 --> 01:02:25,335
some ideas in a way that

1733
01:02:25,750 --> 01:02:27,269
isn't going to rub that person in the

1734
01:02:27,269 --> 01:02:28,710
wrong way. So if they think that they're

1735
01:02:28,710 --> 01:02:30,710
right, or we've gotta stick by the handbook

1736
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:33,190
and we don't necessarily agree that that's exactly

1737
01:02:33,190 --> 01:02:34,410
what the handbook says,

1738
01:02:34,950 --> 01:02:35,610
you know,

1739
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:37,289
maybe push back on

1740
01:02:38,070 --> 01:02:38,230
why

1741
01:02:39,030 --> 01:02:39,769
just ask

1742
01:02:40,295 --> 01:02:43,275
what what's going on that's leading you to

1743
01:02:44,215 --> 01:02:46,295
just push back on this so firmly? I

1744
01:02:46,295 --> 01:02:48,875
wanna better understand where you're coming from.

1745
01:02:49,175 --> 01:02:51,414
And and, you know, I wanna be sensitive.

1746
01:02:51,414 --> 01:02:53,095
I think that you're doing a really great

1747
01:02:53,095 --> 01:02:53,914
thing here.

1748
01:02:54,339 --> 01:02:56,280
And so once we kinda just

1749
01:02:57,139 --> 01:02:57,639
acknowledge

1750
01:02:58,500 --> 01:02:59,319
their shoes

1751
01:02:59,699 --> 01:03:01,940
and where they're coming from, they will do

1752
01:03:01,940 --> 01:03:04,519
a better job of opening up to us.

1753
01:03:04,819 --> 01:03:07,400
Mhmm. Yeah. In fact, let me just recommend

1754
01:03:07,539 --> 01:03:09,059
a a quick book if if people are

1755
01:03:09,059 --> 01:03:11,195
interested in this. There's a book that's called

1756
01:03:11,195 --> 01:03:13,375
I hear you. It's written by Michael Sorensen,

1757
01:03:13,755 --> 01:03:15,914
and it's only $5 on Audible, so there's

1758
01:03:15,914 --> 01:03:17,434
really no reason for us not to get

1759
01:03:17,434 --> 01:03:20,074
it. And I will say it is the

1760
01:03:20,074 --> 01:03:22,155
book that has done more to improve my

1761
01:03:22,155 --> 01:03:25,280
emotional intelligence than any other book. Wow. And

1762
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,859
it's just about how do you validate

1763
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:30,960
other people's ideas? And essentially, this is what

1764
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:32,820
we've been talking about with an open mindset.

1765
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:34,659
How do you just take in ideas

1766
01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:37,440
without necessarily having to run with them or

1767
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,545
even agree with them? Yeah. Because once people

1768
01:03:40,545 --> 01:03:41,525
feel heard,

1769
01:03:41,905 --> 01:03:43,125
that's what matters,

1770
01:03:43,425 --> 01:03:45,125
not that we run with their ideas.

1771
01:03:45,425 --> 01:03:47,344
And so the book is great about giving

1772
01:03:47,344 --> 01:03:49,744
us tools and ideas about how to help

1773
01:03:49,744 --> 01:03:52,039
other people to feel heard. Man, that's great.

1774
01:03:52,039 --> 01:03:53,880
Especially in a, like, a word council setting

1775
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:56,119
or a council meeting setting, like because we

1776
01:03:56,119 --> 01:03:57,880
we wanna do that, but sometimes we don't

1777
01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:59,559
have the skill or ability to do that.

1778
01:03:59,559 --> 01:04:01,559
Right? Yep. So going back to question, the

1779
01:04:01,559 --> 01:04:03,159
more I thought about it, you know, throughout

1780
01:04:03,159 --> 01:04:04,760
reading this book, and I get these emails

1781
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:06,380
sometimes, like and, again, I don't

1782
01:04:06,885 --> 01:04:08,644
I don't wanna shame these people by any

1783
01:04:08,644 --> 01:04:11,364
means. But if you are in a position

1784
01:04:11,364 --> 01:04:12,724
or if you are in a state of

1785
01:04:12,724 --> 01:04:13,224
mind

1786
01:04:13,605 --> 01:04:14,905
where you're asking themselves

1787
01:04:15,525 --> 01:04:18,485
that my leader is so close minded that

1788
01:04:18,485 --> 01:04:20,105
I am limited as an individual,

1789
01:04:20,809 --> 01:04:24,190
you are actually the person that's that's experiencing

1790
01:04:24,250 --> 01:04:26,329
a closed mindset. Right? And I get this

1791
01:04:26,329 --> 01:04:28,329
question all the time, like, you know, like

1792
01:04:28,329 --> 01:04:30,170
I mentioned, but and I have to remind

1793
01:04:30,170 --> 01:04:30,989
people, like,

1794
01:04:31,289 --> 01:04:33,050
do do you realize you actually don't need

1795
01:04:33,050 --> 01:04:35,710
a calling to do the vast majority of

1796
01:04:36,065 --> 01:04:38,144
things in your ward. I mean, if if

1797
01:04:38,144 --> 01:04:39,664
we get in this mindset of thinking, well,

1798
01:04:39,664 --> 01:04:41,105
if I was in charge or if if

1799
01:04:41,105 --> 01:04:42,704
I was the elders corp president, then I

1800
01:04:42,704 --> 01:04:44,545
do it differently. Why don't you just go

1801
01:04:44,545 --> 01:04:46,625
ahead and do it differently? Right? Who says

1802
01:04:46,625 --> 01:04:48,599
you can't make visits, or who says you

1803
01:04:48,599 --> 01:04:50,760
can't do a variety of different things to

1804
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:52,360
reach out and make a difference in your

1805
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:54,519
ward? When we get in this mindset that

1806
01:04:54,519 --> 01:04:56,440
only the leader can have an influence on

1807
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,280
the ward, that's a very close mindset, and

1808
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:01,160
you're limiting yourself from growth. Right? That's a

1809
01:05:01,239 --> 01:05:03,315
you're you're fixed in your mindset, and you're

1810
01:05:03,315 --> 01:05:06,594
you're limiting yourself from experiencing more. Right? Yeah.

1811
01:05:06,594 --> 01:05:07,494
I think so.

1812
01:05:08,194 --> 01:05:08,675
Cool.

1813
01:05:09,074 --> 01:05:10,755
What are we missing, Ryan, as we wrap

1814
01:05:10,755 --> 01:05:11,335
up here?

1815
01:05:11,635 --> 01:05:12,135
So

1816
01:05:12,514 --> 01:05:14,434
we've talked about these four different sets of

1817
01:05:14,434 --> 01:05:17,090
mindsets. We've talked about how we we range

1818
01:05:17,150 --> 01:05:19,550
on this continuum. These these different sets of

1819
01:05:19,550 --> 01:05:22,910
mindsets represent a continuum. So fixed to growth,

1820
01:05:22,910 --> 01:05:25,230
that's a continuum. We fall somewhere along that

1821
01:05:25,230 --> 01:05:27,309
range. It's unlikely that we're gonna be way

1822
01:05:27,309 --> 01:05:28,989
on the negative side or way on the

1823
01:05:28,989 --> 01:05:31,410
positive side. But then the question becomes,

1824
01:05:31,844 --> 01:05:33,144
okay, we identify

1825
01:05:33,925 --> 01:05:36,005
where we are, and we identify we have

1826
01:05:36,005 --> 01:05:36,905
room for improvement.

1827
01:05:37,364 --> 01:05:40,164
How do we go about making improvement? Then

1828
01:05:40,164 --> 01:05:41,144
becomes a question.

1829
01:05:41,445 --> 01:05:43,065
And what we've got to recognize

1830
01:05:43,445 --> 01:05:46,340
is that our mindsets really are neural connections

1831
01:05:46,340 --> 01:05:47,719
in our prefrontal cortex.

1832
01:05:48,260 --> 01:05:50,820
So we all have a closed mindset neural

1833
01:05:50,820 --> 01:05:52,980
connection, and we all have an open mindset

1834
01:05:52,980 --> 01:05:53,800
neural connection.

1835
01:05:54,180 --> 01:05:56,579
Which one we rely upon is the one

1836
01:05:56,579 --> 01:05:57,559
that is stronger

1837
01:05:57,860 --> 01:05:59,559
or more recently activated?

1838
01:06:00,014 --> 01:06:01,635
Because that'll fire louder

1839
01:06:02,094 --> 01:06:02,755
and quicker.

1840
01:06:03,054 --> 01:06:05,554
But the other neural connection that's softer

1841
01:06:05,934 --> 01:06:08,194
or not as strong is gonna be softer

1842
01:06:08,574 --> 01:06:10,974
and slower. Mhmm. And so when we think

1843
01:06:10,974 --> 01:06:13,280
about shifting our mindsets, what we've gotta do

1844
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,440
is we've gotta activate and strengthen our more

1845
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,219
positive mindset neuro connections.

1846
01:06:17,599 --> 01:06:19,519
And there's different things that we could do

1847
01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:20,579
for each of these

1848
01:06:21,119 --> 01:06:24,480
more positive mindsets, but they generally involve just

1849
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,675
learning more about them. That's gonna activate them.

1850
01:06:27,675 --> 01:06:29,295
We can engage in

1851
01:06:29,595 --> 01:06:30,095
watching

1852
01:06:30,715 --> 01:06:31,535
short videos

1853
01:06:31,994 --> 01:06:34,715
or doing short journaling exercises. In fact, I've

1854
01:06:34,715 --> 01:06:36,715
got a book right by me here, it's

1855
01:06:36,715 --> 01:06:38,175
called The Five Minute Journal.

1856
01:06:38,589 --> 01:06:41,069
And I credit this book from helping me

1857
01:06:41,069 --> 01:06:43,630
shift from a prevention mindset to a promotion

1858
01:06:43,630 --> 01:06:46,589
mindset. Because every day, it invites me to

1859
01:06:46,589 --> 01:06:49,150
answer three questions in the morning. What are

1860
01:06:49,150 --> 01:06:51,405
three things that I'm grateful for? What are

1861
01:06:51,405 --> 01:06:53,565
three things that would make today great? And

1862
01:06:53,565 --> 01:06:55,804
fill in a couple of daily affirmations. So

1863
01:06:55,804 --> 01:06:58,684
I am fill in the blank. And as

1864
01:06:58,684 --> 01:07:00,625
I started to do this, particularly

1865
01:07:00,925 --> 01:07:03,659
the what would make today great, I was

1866
01:07:03,659 --> 01:07:06,079
exercising my promotion mindset neuroconnection.

1867
01:07:06,539 --> 01:07:08,780
Because what is the destination that I want

1868
01:07:08,780 --> 01:07:10,619
to arrive at, as opposed to what are

1869
01:07:10,619 --> 01:07:12,699
the problems I want to avoid? And as

1870
01:07:12,699 --> 01:07:14,539
I started to do this on a daily

1871
01:07:14,539 --> 01:07:16,940
basis, I kinda got into a competition with

1872
01:07:16,940 --> 01:07:19,235
myself. How do I make today better than

1873
01:07:19,235 --> 01:07:19,735
yesterday?

1874
01:07:20,195 --> 01:07:22,355
How do I make this week better than

1875
01:07:22,355 --> 01:07:23,795
last week? How do I make this month

1876
01:07:23,795 --> 01:07:26,275
better than last month? So that's just an

1877
01:07:26,275 --> 01:07:26,775
example

1878
01:07:27,315 --> 01:07:30,055
of an exercise that we can engage in

1879
01:07:30,420 --> 01:07:31,719
to help us to shift

1880
01:07:32,099 --> 01:07:33,800
to have more positive mindsets.

1881
01:07:34,179 --> 01:07:36,099
And so if we if we can be

1882
01:07:36,099 --> 01:07:36,839
more intentional

1883
01:07:37,539 --> 01:07:39,219
about this, and and if people take my

1884
01:07:39,219 --> 01:07:41,219
mindset assessment or read my book, they're gonna

1885
01:07:41,219 --> 01:07:42,519
get a whole host of recommendations

1886
01:07:43,184 --> 01:07:45,204
on different tools that they can utilize.

1887
01:07:45,505 --> 01:07:48,465
But just know that it is research suggests

1888
01:07:48,465 --> 01:07:51,204
that it's fairly easy to change our mindsets.

1889
01:07:51,585 --> 01:07:54,085
Research finds that watching a three minute video

1890
01:07:54,305 --> 01:07:56,625
will shift our mindsets for up to two

1891
01:07:56,625 --> 01:07:59,210
weeks. Now if we could stack these interventions

1892
01:07:59,269 --> 01:08:01,030
on top of each other, then we could

1893
01:08:01,030 --> 01:08:03,110
shift our mindsets to be more positive on

1894
01:08:03,110 --> 01:08:04,409
a more positive basis.

1895
01:08:04,710 --> 01:08:06,730
Yeah. And so what this means that's

1896
01:08:07,110 --> 01:08:10,170
some information for us personally as leaders or

1897
01:08:10,309 --> 01:08:12,010
really as disciples of Christ.

1898
01:08:12,309 --> 01:08:14,614
But if we're a leader of an organization,

1899
01:08:14,835 --> 01:08:16,914
what that means is we need to create

1900
01:08:16,914 --> 01:08:18,375
these positive interventions

1901
01:08:19,074 --> 01:08:20,454
for those that we lead.

1902
01:08:20,994 --> 01:08:22,675
How do we help them do a better

1903
01:08:22,675 --> 01:08:24,375
job of seeking truth

1904
01:08:24,755 --> 01:08:25,895
as opposed to

1905
01:08:26,274 --> 01:08:28,719
wanting to be seen as right? How do

1906
01:08:28,719 --> 01:08:29,699
we help people

1907
01:08:30,159 --> 01:08:32,420
focus on reaching goals, creating

1908
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:35,699
positive outcomes as opposed to avoiding problems?

1909
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,619
And I think we as leaders

1910
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:40,719
are in a unique position to positively influence

1911
01:08:40,719 --> 01:08:41,859
people in those ways.

1912
01:08:42,175 --> 01:08:44,354
Yeah. My mind goes to, like, to increase

1913
01:08:44,975 --> 01:08:47,295
to improve your mindset, you have to improve

1914
01:08:47,295 --> 01:08:50,095
your mindfulness. Right? I mean, these these tactics

1915
01:08:50,095 --> 01:08:53,375
you describe are are meditative in principle. Right?

1916
01:08:53,375 --> 01:08:54,655
And I did an interview. I don't know

1917
01:08:54,655 --> 01:08:56,095
if you've read the book yet from a

1918
01:08:56,095 --> 01:08:58,659
desert book called The Power of Stillness, but

1919
01:08:58,659 --> 01:09:00,180
it's a it was a life changing book

1920
01:09:00,180 --> 01:09:01,939
for me, and this would play into that.

1921
01:09:01,939 --> 01:09:03,380
And I interviewed the authors. I don't know

1922
01:09:03,380 --> 01:09:05,140
if that'll be released before or after this,

1923
01:09:05,140 --> 01:09:05,640
but

1924
01:09:06,020 --> 01:09:08,420
just the the act of, like, slowing things

1925
01:09:08,420 --> 01:09:09,939
down. Right? And and take it back to

1926
01:09:09,939 --> 01:09:12,039
a a meeting context, like,

1927
01:09:12,354 --> 01:09:14,675
how can we slow that process down? It's

1928
01:09:14,675 --> 01:09:16,034
so easy to get into a room and

1929
01:09:16,034 --> 01:09:17,715
do the round robin or, oh, great. Who's

1930
01:09:17,715 --> 01:09:19,395
got the opening prayer? Alright. You shared the

1931
01:09:19,395 --> 01:09:21,395
spiritual thought. Alright. What's the first matter of

1932
01:09:21,395 --> 01:09:22,694
business? But just stopping

1933
01:09:23,074 --> 01:09:25,814
and slowing the process down, creating space

1934
01:09:26,289 --> 01:09:28,850
for our mind to process where our mindset

1935
01:09:28,850 --> 01:09:30,609
is and then getting there. And you talk

1936
01:09:30,609 --> 01:09:32,689
about these questions. I own one of those

1937
01:09:32,689 --> 01:09:34,550
journals as well. It's a powerful thing.

1938
01:09:34,850 --> 01:09:37,889
But questions finding right questions to start any

1939
01:09:37,889 --> 01:09:39,189
meeting or to start

1940
01:09:39,555 --> 01:09:40,295
any experience

1941
01:09:41,234 --> 01:09:43,795
anchors our mind and connects it with the

1942
01:09:43,795 --> 01:09:46,295
spirit or with our spirit, our soul,

1943
01:09:46,835 --> 01:09:48,835
and helps us move forward with a better

1944
01:09:49,074 --> 01:09:51,395
with the mindset which we ideally want to

1945
01:09:51,395 --> 01:09:54,350
act from. Right? And so I'm such powerful

1946
01:09:54,409 --> 01:09:55,229
such powerful

1947
01:09:55,610 --> 01:09:58,970
tools and tactics. So awesome. Well, so give

1948
01:09:58,970 --> 01:10:01,289
us just a a rundown. Sometimes I worry,

1949
01:10:01,289 --> 01:10:01,789
especially

1950
01:10:02,090 --> 01:10:03,369
when I talk to guys like you that

1951
01:10:03,369 --> 01:10:05,130
we get so far into the weeds. People

1952
01:10:05,130 --> 01:10:06,895
think like, well, that was a really good

1953
01:10:06,895 --> 01:10:09,534
episode, but I'm not sure why. I don't

1954
01:10:09,534 --> 01:10:11,215
know what to do next. So as we

1955
01:10:11,215 --> 01:10:13,935
wrap up, like, if what would you tell

1956
01:10:13,935 --> 01:10:16,175
someone who just wants to take the first

1957
01:10:16,175 --> 01:10:18,975
steps of being more mindful of their mind

1958
01:10:19,135 --> 01:10:19,635
mindset?

1959
01:10:20,079 --> 01:10:22,560
Yeah. I think the first step is really

1960
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:24,239
I mean, it's an easy one. Go to

1961
01:10:24,239 --> 01:10:26,960
my website, take this mindset assessment. It's 20

1962
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:29,279
questions. It's five minutes. It produces a really

1963
01:10:29,279 --> 01:10:30,739
comprehensive and individualized

1964
01:10:31,039 --> 01:10:32,500
report about your mindsets.

1965
01:10:32,965 --> 01:10:35,704
And it just is it's a self awakening

1966
01:10:35,925 --> 01:10:38,244
moment because, I think I mentioned this earlier,

1967
01:10:38,244 --> 01:10:40,725
90% of our thinking, feeling, judging, and acting

1968
01:10:40,725 --> 01:10:43,305
is driven by our nonconscious automatic processes.

1969
01:10:43,925 --> 01:10:46,965
And these nonconscious automatic processes are driven by

1970
01:10:46,965 --> 01:10:47,625
our mindsets.

1971
01:10:48,100 --> 01:10:50,100
And most of us just aren't conscious of

1972
01:10:50,100 --> 01:10:52,260
our mindsets, and we don't have labels for

1973
01:10:52,260 --> 01:10:54,659
these mindsets. So when we don't have labels,

1974
01:10:54,659 --> 01:10:57,239
we don't have anything to focus on. But

1975
01:10:57,380 --> 01:10:59,060
so let me just tell you a little

1976
01:10:59,060 --> 01:11:01,060
bit about my personal experience in terms of

1977
01:11:01,060 --> 01:11:02,840
my self development journey

1978
01:11:03,284 --> 01:11:05,385
as a disciple of Christ is

1979
01:11:05,844 --> 01:11:07,604
for most of my adult life, when I

1980
01:11:07,604 --> 01:11:10,244
would focus on becoming a better disciple of

1981
01:11:10,244 --> 01:11:12,904
Christ, I would primarily focus on behaviors.

1982
01:11:13,284 --> 01:11:14,804
What are things that I should do, or

1983
01:11:14,804 --> 01:11:16,404
what are things that I should not do

1984
01:11:16,404 --> 01:11:19,170
and avoid? But here's the problem, is if

1985
01:11:19,170 --> 01:11:21,409
we're focusing on behaviors trying to move those

1986
01:11:21,409 --> 01:11:23,270
forward, but our mindsets

1987
01:11:23,649 --> 01:11:27,109
stay the same, our mindsets will continually resist

1988
01:11:27,489 --> 01:11:29,489
the changes in behaviors that we're trying to

1989
01:11:29,489 --> 01:11:29,984
make.

1990
01:11:30,304 --> 01:11:32,965
But if we could push forward our mindsets,

1991
01:11:33,744 --> 01:11:34,244
naturally,

1992
01:11:34,545 --> 01:11:35,284
our thinking,

1993
01:11:35,744 --> 01:11:38,545
our learning, and our behavior will follow. It's

1994
01:11:38,545 --> 01:11:40,944
a more natural way of developing ourselves. And

1995
01:11:40,944 --> 01:11:42,944
if we think about this as a leader

1996
01:11:42,944 --> 01:11:44,645
who is ministering to others,

1997
01:11:45,100 --> 01:11:47,500
if we want them to improve their lives

1998
01:11:47,500 --> 01:11:48,239
in some ways,

1999
01:11:48,539 --> 01:11:50,539
rather than focus on here's all the things

2000
01:11:50,539 --> 01:11:52,300
that you need to do or not do,

2001
01:11:52,300 --> 01:11:54,159
what if we were to focus on mindsets

2002
01:11:54,619 --> 01:11:56,479
and get them to change their lenses?

2003
01:11:57,020 --> 01:12:00,395
Then they will naturally think, learn, and behave

2004
01:12:00,395 --> 01:12:02,715
better. So I think that we can be

2005
01:12:02,715 --> 01:12:04,574
more effective ourselves at becoming,

2006
01:12:05,034 --> 01:12:07,515
better disciples of Christ and helping others do

2007
01:12:07,515 --> 01:12:10,015
the same if we focus more on mindsets

2008
01:12:10,155 --> 01:12:12,574
and less on the do's and don'ts associated

2009
01:12:12,635 --> 01:12:14,770
with the gospel. Wow. That's powerful. And and

2010
01:12:14,770 --> 01:12:16,530
it's so I mean, there's so many examples

2011
01:12:16,530 --> 01:12:18,289
come to mind, but even, you know, when

2012
01:12:18,289 --> 01:12:20,770
we think about repentance, like, when we shift

2013
01:12:20,770 --> 01:12:23,170
the mindset from you've done something wrong and

2014
01:12:23,170 --> 01:12:25,409
you should feel really bad about this and

2015
01:12:25,409 --> 01:12:27,475
we gotta get this fixed to, oh, you

2016
01:12:27,475 --> 01:12:29,315
did something wrong in your learning. Like, what'd

2017
01:12:29,315 --> 01:12:31,555
you learn? Like, that's fantastic. How how did

2018
01:12:31,555 --> 01:12:33,235
you how did you develop as a disciple

2019
01:12:33,235 --> 01:12:35,155
of Christ? That's that's remarkable. You know, there's

2020
01:12:35,315 --> 01:12:37,074
and there's so much more there that we

2021
01:12:37,074 --> 01:12:38,994
can learn as we reflect on that. Well,

2022
01:12:38,994 --> 01:12:41,255
what does the Bible dictionary say repentances?

2023
01:12:42,189 --> 01:12:44,510
It's a change of mind and heart. Oh

2024
01:12:44,510 --> 01:12:46,510
my goodness. What is that? It's a mindset

2025
01:12:46,510 --> 01:12:49,710
shift. Yeah. We're just improving the lenses in

2026
01:12:49,710 --> 01:12:51,649
which we see the world, and that's repentance.

2027
01:12:52,109 --> 01:12:54,670
And because our mindsets are really foundational to

2028
01:12:54,670 --> 01:12:56,850
everything that we do, that's the heart

2029
01:12:57,164 --> 01:12:58,545
of change, personal,

2030
01:12:59,005 --> 01:12:59,505
organizational,

2031
01:13:00,045 --> 01:13:02,444
and that's really what repentance is, is changing

2032
01:13:02,444 --> 01:13:03,184
our mindsets.

2033
01:13:03,645 --> 01:13:06,125
Awesome. Well, Ryan, any any other principle that

2034
01:13:06,125 --> 01:13:07,484
you wanted to hit on before we wrap

2035
01:13:07,484 --> 01:13:08,764
up? No. I think we covered all of

2036
01:13:08,764 --> 01:13:10,929
them. That's like what I guess we didn't

2037
01:13:10,929 --> 01:13:12,849
get baptism in the holy ghost. Right. We

2038
01:13:12,849 --> 01:13:14,289
did. We did. We'll leave that for next

2039
01:13:14,289 --> 01:13:17,489
time. Cool. Well, this is, been so good.

2040
01:13:17,489 --> 01:13:19,729
And, you've mentioned your website a few times,

2041
01:13:19,729 --> 01:13:21,409
ryangodfordson.com,

2042
01:13:21,409 --> 01:13:22,609
that people can go to and take the

2043
01:13:22,609 --> 01:13:24,630
assessment there. Obviously, your book's available.

2044
01:13:25,145 --> 01:13:26,185
And and And if they go to my

2045
01:13:26,185 --> 01:13:26,685
website,

2046
01:13:26,985 --> 01:13:29,225
they can get, at least right now, and

2047
01:13:29,225 --> 01:13:31,545
this will change once the physical copy comes

2048
01:13:31,545 --> 01:13:34,025
out. But they could either buy the ebook

2049
01:13:34,025 --> 01:13:36,345
or the physical copy and then get the

2050
01:13:36,345 --> 01:13:39,180
audio version for free. And there's some other

2051
01:13:39,180 --> 01:13:40,780
webinars and resources. So if you go to

2052
01:13:40,780 --> 01:13:42,380
my website, you could get some a bunch

2053
01:13:42,380 --> 01:13:44,060
of freebies. So Yeah. I just try to

2054
01:13:44,060 --> 01:13:45,979
make it easy on people to to digest

2055
01:13:45,979 --> 01:13:47,820
the material. Yeah. And I just think, like,

2056
01:13:47,820 --> 01:13:50,720
what a fun activity and a revealing activity

2057
01:13:50,780 --> 01:13:53,175
to take the first part of word council

2058
01:13:53,175 --> 01:13:55,034
and say, we're all gonna take this mindset

2059
01:13:55,095 --> 01:13:57,335
analysis and see what we learn. Right? And,

2060
01:13:57,975 --> 01:13:59,814
man, what a great way to set your

2061
01:13:59,814 --> 01:14:01,975
word council off in the right direction. Alright.

2062
01:14:01,975 --> 01:14:03,895
Last question I have here, Ryan, is as

2063
01:14:03,895 --> 01:14:05,435
you have considered mindsets

2064
01:14:05,929 --> 01:14:08,969
and researched and analyzed and and reflected on

2065
01:14:08,969 --> 01:14:09,789
your own mindsets,

2066
01:14:10,170 --> 01:14:12,329
how has this process made you a better

2067
01:14:12,329 --> 01:14:13,710
follower of Jesus Christ?

2068
01:14:14,250 --> 01:14:16,270
I think we've touched a lot on that.

2069
01:14:16,489 --> 01:14:20,085
For me, it's really just changed, I think,

2070
01:14:20,085 --> 01:14:20,585
my

2071
01:14:21,284 --> 01:14:22,664
connection with God

2072
01:14:23,045 --> 01:14:23,864
and the spirit,

2073
01:14:24,404 --> 01:14:26,744
because as I'm focused more

2074
01:14:27,284 --> 01:14:28,984
on learning and growing,

2075
01:14:29,284 --> 01:14:32,744
finding truth, reaching goals, and lifting others,

2076
01:14:33,380 --> 01:14:35,619
I feel like I'm a better person, a

2077
01:14:35,619 --> 01:14:37,699
better disciple of Christ. I'm more of my

2078
01:14:37,699 --> 01:14:38,679
ideal self.

2079
01:14:38,979 --> 01:14:41,319
And I'm living less in fear,

2080
01:14:41,699 --> 01:14:43,639
and I'm living more in opportunity.

2081
01:14:44,260 --> 01:14:46,260
And so my hope, and I think that

2082
01:14:46,260 --> 01:14:48,314
that's the beauty of the gospel, is that

2083
01:14:48,314 --> 01:14:50,715
we free ourselves from our fears, our self

2084
01:14:50,715 --> 01:14:52,395
restraints. I think that's the purpose of the

2085
01:14:52,395 --> 01:14:52,895
atonement,

2086
01:14:53,515 --> 01:14:56,414
and and empowering us to become

2087
01:14:57,034 --> 01:14:59,354
really what God has meant us to become,

2088
01:14:59,354 --> 01:15:00,734
which is a great individual.

2089
01:15:01,070 --> 01:15:03,550
And I think a focus on mindsets has

2090
01:15:03,550 --> 01:15:04,690
really helped me

2091
01:15:05,070 --> 01:15:06,289
make a significant

2092
01:15:06,590 --> 01:15:08,590
transition to becoming more of what my Heavenly

2093
01:15:08,590 --> 01:15:09,890
Father wants me to be.

2094
01:15:22,125 --> 01:15:24,625
That concludes my interview with Ryan Godfreyson.

2095
01:15:25,164 --> 01:15:27,885
Please go check out this book. Pass around

2096
01:15:27,885 --> 01:15:29,645
your ward and your your friends do a

2097
01:15:29,645 --> 01:15:32,560
book club with success mindsets. It's such a

2098
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:34,560
valuable information, and you really don't even have

2099
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:35,960
to be a leader. Right? Like, whether you're

2100
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,000
a parent, a husband, a wife, like, there's

2101
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,640
so many applications to this book would fit

2102
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:42,399
in because it's just about being a human

2103
01:15:42,399 --> 01:15:44,960
and having a brain and, dealing with the

2104
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:45,619
the brain's

2105
01:15:46,314 --> 01:15:49,034
natural tendencies and overcoming those things that are

2106
01:15:49,034 --> 01:15:52,234
more negative. But such a phenomenal research book,

2107
01:15:52,234 --> 01:15:54,234
and I can't recommend it enough. I actually,

2108
01:15:54,474 --> 01:15:56,715
already left left a five star review on

2109
01:15:56,715 --> 01:15:58,409
Amazon, and I hope you'll do the same

2110
01:15:58,409 --> 01:16:00,170
once you, check it out. But I hope

2111
01:16:00,170 --> 01:16:02,489
you benefited from this conversation that I had

2112
01:16:02,489 --> 01:16:03,150
with Ryan.

2113
01:16:03,530 --> 01:16:04,510
And, again,

2114
01:16:04,970 --> 01:16:08,010
these are so they're kinda tricky at times

2115
01:16:08,010 --> 01:16:09,944
because I don't wanna come across saying that,

2116
01:16:10,024 --> 01:16:12,104
oh, yeah. You should go rogue and, you

2117
01:16:12,104 --> 01:16:14,425
know, stop looking at the handbook or don't

2118
01:16:14,425 --> 01:16:16,585
read your scriptures or do your own thing

2119
01:16:16,585 --> 01:16:19,465
or whatever. But, again, it's just leadership is

2120
01:16:19,465 --> 01:16:19,965
the

2121
01:16:20,344 --> 01:16:21,484
the routine of

2122
01:16:21,864 --> 01:16:24,344
finding the status quo and pushing back on

2123
01:16:24,344 --> 01:16:26,979
it, which is risky, but you'll like I

2124
01:16:26,979 --> 01:16:29,880
said, you'll discover deeper inspiration, revelation,

2125
01:16:30,579 --> 01:16:33,079
a deeper experience of and level of engagement

2126
01:16:33,219 --> 01:16:35,380
for those in your organization. So, anyways, I

2127
01:16:35,380 --> 01:16:35,939
hope it

2128
01:16:36,659 --> 01:16:38,340
it came we were clear in in what

2129
01:16:38,340 --> 01:16:40,335
we were stating and so forth, but really

2130
01:16:40,335 --> 01:16:40,994
a phenomenal book.

2131
01:16:41,454 --> 01:16:44,095
Go check it out. And that concludes this

2132
01:16:44,095 --> 01:16:46,755
throwback episode of the Leading Saints podcast.

2133
01:16:47,454 --> 01:16:47,954
Remember,

2134
01:16:48,414 --> 01:16:52,515
solve the burden of meetings by visiting leadingsaints.org/14

2135
01:16:52,574 --> 01:16:55,055
and getting fourteen days access to the Meetings

2136
01:16:55,055 --> 01:16:55,715
with Saints

2137
01:16:56,130 --> 01:16:56,630
virtual

2138
01:17:01,170 --> 01:17:01,670
library.

2139
01:17:04,530 --> 01:17:07,030
It came as a result of the position

2140
01:17:07,090 --> 01:17:10,064
of leadership which was imposed upon us

2141
01:17:10,625 --> 01:17:13,265
by the God of heaven, who brought forth

2142
01:17:13,265 --> 01:17:16,725
a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

2143
01:17:17,344 --> 01:17:18,324
When the declaration

2144
01:17:18,625 --> 01:17:20,965
was made concerning the only

2145
01:17:21,664 --> 01:17:24,145
true and living Church upon the face of

2146
01:17:24,145 --> 01:17:24,805
the earth,

2147
01:17:25,319 --> 01:17:27,979
We were immediately put in a position of

2148
01:17:28,039 --> 01:17:28,539
loneliness,

2149
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:30,539
the loneliness of leadership

2150
01:17:31,399 --> 01:17:34,460
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,

2151
01:17:35,503 --> 01:17:37,903
and to which we must face up with

2152
01:17:37,903 --> 01:17:39,443
boldness and courage

2153
01:17:40,143 --> 01:17:40,883
and ability.