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Have you ever tried to help youth with

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their mental health? That's a tricky road to

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travel. I have to tell you about an

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inspiring presentation we recorded with the one and

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only Jody Moore. Yes. That life coaching Jody

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Moore. A few years ago, she recorded a

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fantastic presentation

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covering topics like normalizing

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tough feelings with youth, a more positive understanding

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of stress, how to minimize shame, and mastering

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the skill set of empathy and better understanding

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anxiety. I want you to see this presentation

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as soon as you finish this podcast episode.

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You can go to leadingsaints.org/fourteen,

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and this will get you access to the

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entire video library at no cost for fourteen

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days.

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Jody's presentation is in the Mentally Healthy Saints

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library, and you'll be a better leader or

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parent when you finish it. Again, go to

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leadingsaints.org/14

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or check out the show notes for the

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link.

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Hey. Did you know that we video record

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the vast majority of our interviews on the

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That's right. And then we upload it to

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Especially if you're the type of person that,

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listens to the podcast while you do the

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dishes or workout, you can put up the

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the face of the various guests that are

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subscribe to the channel because that helps us

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across the world who could benefit. So go

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Welcome back to another episode of Leading Saints.

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And today, I welcome in a good friend

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named Braden Jensen, who is a therapist in

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Sandy, Utah

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and has a really unique background of being

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a seminary teacher, a full time seminary teacher

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in Utah, and then transitioning, filling this call

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to help youth even more and more of

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a a therapy realm and went back to

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school, became a therapist, and now is, helping

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youth. And so, obviously,

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with so many youth leaders out there,

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it's interesting to maybe better understand the psyche

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of youth or what are experiences that youth

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are having that would be helpful to us

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and how to, you know, break through those

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those brick walls they put up at times.

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And so tying to a therapist who works

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with youth and is doing this time and

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time and time again, it can really be

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helpful for church leaders. So we talk about

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feelings. Right. But in a way of how

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do we get youth to actually feel their

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feelings or identify their feelings, you know, being

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more, articulate

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and aware of the feelings that they're going

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through so that then they can get past

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them or process them. And, and how do

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we bring those into a church context? So

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that's Sunday lesson or during activities. Cause the

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more we can connect them with their feelings,

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the more often we're connecting them to their

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soul, to their spirit. And obviously that's a

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phenomenal foundation to work from when talking about

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religious,

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concepts. Right? So, you're gonna appreciate

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Braden's background, his, effort and bringing grace into

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the lives of youth and helping him get

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past the hyper focus on behaviors

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and really just finding connection, authenticity,

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and encouragement as a youth in, in these

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latter days. Right? So here's my interview with

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Braden Jensen.

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Alright, Braden. So you made the career change

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from being a seminary teacher. You taught mainly

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at Skyline High in Salt Lake. Yeah. Exclusively

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at at Skyline High. Oh, really? Okay. You're

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all done. Nice. And you became a therapist.

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Yes.

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What were you thinking?

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What's the story behind that? That's a good

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quest it's a good question because I had

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a lot of people

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when you're a seminary teacher, you have so

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like, basically, anyone that finds out you're a

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seminary teacher is like, oh, man. That would

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be the most amazing job ever. Yeah. We're

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talking full time, like Yeah. Full time full

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time. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. If you're if you're

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outside the Utah bubble.

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Here in Utah, it's release time. So students

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come over

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from the high school during class periods and,

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man, we had, like, you know, 700 between

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seven and eight hundred students there at Skyline.

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So Yeah. It was super fun to get

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to spend time with them and get to

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know their hearts and, man, get to share

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so many things with them. And so any

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yeah. Anyone that talks to you is like,

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man, being a seminary teacher, like, that's you're

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living the dream, man. Like, it's it's great.

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And it was. Like, it it it really

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was. And so, yeah, making that transition,

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like, puzzled me even a little bit sometimes.

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And So was it just a calling from

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God or, like, what was Yeah. It was,

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it was really,

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you know, getting into

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seminary.

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And the further I got in that seminary

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journey, like, if you would have asked me,

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I would have told you that. I'd be

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like, hey. Like, thirty year seminary guy. Like,

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that was the plan.

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And got about five years into it and

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just realized that there was some different ways

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that I could help and dig in with

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people. And I started to notice patterns of

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what my students were experiencing.

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And there were there's just some ways as

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a seminary teacher that you're handcuffed a little

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bit. You know, there's boundaries in place and

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and things like that for good reason. Yeah.

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You're not a therapist when you're therapist.

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So You are now, but I would have

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yeah. I would have, students that would come

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and approach me, and and they'd bring up

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hard things, you know, relationship problems or family

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dynamics

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and stuff like that that's, you know, can

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be challenging and was challenging for them. Addiction

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and things like that, like, you know, real

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stuff that they're dealing with and wrestling with.

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And

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I just started to just man, I wish

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I could help more or I wish I

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could help differently. You know? Seminary,

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you get really good at at helping them

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understand the what and the why of the

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gospel.

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And, like, I was like, man, like, I

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really wanna do the how part. Like, that's

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the good stuff.

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So

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I started exploring that with some friends who

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are therapists and

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and just started asking the questions like, hey.

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What what does this look like? What do

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I gotta do? Because I want I wanna

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be able to help this way just a

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little bit more deeply. And so, yeah, started

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that journey

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and did kinda both as I was navigating

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school. I was still teaching seminary,

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and so did that for a couple of

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years. And this is my my first school

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year that I have not taught seminary

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because I'm I'm doing therapy full time and

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loving it. So I'm curious back in the

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day when you're that seminary teacher, what were

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the like, how did these issues usually come

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up? Was it a kind of a comment

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in class that was a little off? Did

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someone hang out after and wanna talk? Or,

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typically, how did that happen?

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Yeah. Both of those are are very real

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and normal experiences as a seminary teacher. Like,

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hey. Oh, I'm I'm just hearing someone say

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something that sounded like, man, something

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there's something behind that comment that they didn't

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bring all the way out. And so, you

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know, that would be opportunities for me to

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have conversations with students sometimes. It'd be opportunities

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for me to have conversations with parents sometimes

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and just say, hey. Heard this today and

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just wanted to wanted to check-in on that

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and just, you know, see what's happening there.

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But, yeah, also students, you know, I I

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definitely tried to as a seminary teacher, I

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kind of prided myself on being able to

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have a place where there was safety and

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there was comfort. And, really, no matter what

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your journey was looking like, I wanted you

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to feel good in my class. I I

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think everyone deserves

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Jesus.

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Mhmm. And, like, that's that's what I was

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trying to do. So if your journey didn't

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look perfect, then

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you could come to my class and and

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be there and be in it, and I

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loved that.

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And I think it created an environment where

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people felt comfortable bringing up some of the

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hard stuff. So, yeah, I would have students

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that would, you know, hang out after class

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sometimes and just say, hey. Wanna talk through

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this, and and this is a this is

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a big, hard, heavy thing. Another thing I

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did with my students is every semester,

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I started off this semester

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asking them to write me a letter and

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just having them be real in that. And,

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like, whatever real looks like to you, that's

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what I want you to put in this

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letter. I would give them, you know, four

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or five things they could include in that

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letter if they wanted to. Like, you know,

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tell me about your family. Tell me about

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what you like to do outside of school

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and stuff like that. But then my last

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question would just be like, man, like, what

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else do you want me to know about,

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like, where you're at right now? Mhmm. You

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know? Tell me about your relationship with Jesus,

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and tell me about

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what you're navigating right now and that and

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and just, you know, give him an opportunity

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to be real. And I would give them

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about a half hour to write that letter

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in class. Like, it was important to me

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to give them time and let them feel

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and have them approach me in that way.

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And and it led to lots of cool

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lots of cool opportunities to connect with those

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kids for sure. Yeah. That's a, that's a

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great idea. Even a church youth leader can

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do that. And I think this is a

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dynamic we be aware of. Like, obviously, you

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know, you think of the typical youth experience

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in the church. Obviously they have their parents,

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their Bishop, their youth leaders, and the seminary

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teachers. Part of that, even outside of, you

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know,

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release time seminary is, you know, every every

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usually every, you know, teenager has a seminary

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teacher that can be a mentor and someone

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who's like, well, I'm I'm not comfortable to

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open up my parents, my bishop, or my

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youth leaders, but this guy kinda seems cool.

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Maybe I could ask him a question, you

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know, and create that safety. Yeah. Yeah. And

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and, again, that that's really what I loved

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about a lot of people, when they say,

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hey. It must be awesome being a seminary

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teacher. You just get to, like, study scriptures

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all day. I'm like, oh, that's actually not

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00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:29,774
my favorite part.

264
00:09:30,335 --> 00:09:32,815
But my favorite part is, just that connection.

265
00:09:32,815 --> 00:09:34,575
Like, being able to be around, rub shoulders

266
00:09:34,575 --> 00:09:37,215
with, you know, these awesome youth. Just have

267
00:09:37,215 --> 00:09:39,715
fun with them. I I feel like sometimes

268
00:09:40,495 --> 00:09:44,269
church and gospel and God, it can become

269
00:09:44,409 --> 00:09:46,730
so serious so quickly that it's important to

270
00:09:46,730 --> 00:09:47,230
remember

271
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what we're doing and and why we're doing

272
00:09:49,289 --> 00:09:51,129
it. Yeah. Is there anything else that comes

273
00:09:51,129 --> 00:09:52,889
to mind? I love that letter ideas because

274
00:09:52,889 --> 00:09:55,149
that that creates a lot of safety, trust,

275
00:09:55,209 --> 00:09:56,730
things like that. Is there anything else as

276
00:09:56,730 --> 00:09:59,105
far as if you were coaching youth leaders

277
00:09:59,245 --> 00:10:02,925
about handling a classroom setting so that questions

278
00:10:02,925 --> 00:10:04,684
come up, concerns come up, or they just

279
00:10:04,684 --> 00:10:06,605
feel like, oh, I wanna be there? I

280
00:10:06,605 --> 00:10:08,845
think something that I just also tried to

281
00:10:08,845 --> 00:10:10,705
do was to

282
00:10:11,169 --> 00:10:13,330
let students know that I'm actually super open

283
00:10:13,330 --> 00:10:14,710
to learning from them.

284
00:10:15,330 --> 00:10:18,629
Like, I'm your teacher. Yes. But I recognize

285
00:10:18,690 --> 00:10:21,509
that my experience is super different from yours,

286
00:10:21,570 --> 00:10:24,370
and I want to I wanna experience some

287
00:10:24,370 --> 00:10:25,429
of what you're experiencing.

288
00:10:25,904 --> 00:10:27,425
So I have to have my heart open

289
00:10:27,425 --> 00:10:29,024
to empathy a little bit and to be

290
00:10:29,024 --> 00:10:30,465
able to feel a little bit of what

291
00:10:30,465 --> 00:10:32,705
they're what they're going through. But I love

292
00:10:32,705 --> 00:10:34,565
this, especially with students who

293
00:10:34,945 --> 00:10:36,565
were just trying to navigate,

294
00:10:37,264 --> 00:10:37,925
you know,

295
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,000
LGBT journeys and and things like that and

296
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,839
and just wanting to understand them better. And

297
00:10:42,839 --> 00:10:44,839
I would if they were willing, I had

298
00:10:44,839 --> 00:10:46,440
students who would share that with me that

299
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,360
that, hey. I'm this is how I'm feeling,

300
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:49,879
and this is what I'm trying to I'm

301
00:10:49,879 --> 00:10:51,684
trying to figure out. And I would just

302
00:10:51,684 --> 00:10:53,764
say, hey. Like, I'm gonna do my absolute

303
00:10:53,764 --> 00:10:56,084
best as your teacher to, again, help you

304
00:10:56,084 --> 00:10:59,384
experience Jesus because everybody deserves that and and,

305
00:10:59,764 --> 00:11:01,304
like, that's what he's there for.

306
00:11:01,684 --> 00:11:03,605
If I do that in the wrong way,

307
00:11:03,605 --> 00:11:06,100
will you help me, like, teach me? Yeah.

308
00:11:06,100 --> 00:11:07,779
Help me understand. Like, I I know that

309
00:11:07,779 --> 00:11:09,379
I have some things to learn from you.

310
00:11:09,379 --> 00:11:10,120
And so

311
00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:13,220
those were really sacred conversations to have with

312
00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:15,620
people to just man. Like, I want you

313
00:11:15,620 --> 00:11:17,779
to to teach me and help me grow

314
00:11:17,779 --> 00:11:19,754
on that for sure. Yeah. Alright. Well, let's

315
00:11:19,754 --> 00:11:22,154
jump forward to now you're in that therapist

316
00:11:22,154 --> 00:11:22,654
chair.

317
00:11:23,115 --> 00:11:23,615
Obviously,

318
00:11:24,154 --> 00:11:26,875
different dynamics happening, but and and you primarily

319
00:11:26,875 --> 00:11:28,795
work with youth. Is that fair to say?

320
00:11:28,795 --> 00:11:30,315
Yeah. I work I work a lot with

321
00:11:30,315 --> 00:11:31,995
youth. I work a little bit with everybody,

322
00:11:31,995 --> 00:11:33,055
but I would say

323
00:11:34,090 --> 00:11:35,769
that 75%

324
00:11:35,769 --> 00:11:37,769
of of the clients that I see are

325
00:11:37,769 --> 00:11:40,490
somewhere between fifteen and twenty five. So a

326
00:11:40,490 --> 00:11:42,330
lot of high school and college age kids

327
00:11:42,330 --> 00:11:45,710
that are just navigating life. Yeah. That's awesome.

328
00:11:46,125 --> 00:11:48,764
And I always you know, someone who's coming

329
00:11:48,764 --> 00:11:50,605
off the front lines of the battles of

330
00:11:50,605 --> 00:11:52,924
mortality, especially in the context of youth, like,

331
00:11:52,924 --> 00:11:54,684
I'd love to just ask, like, what generally

332
00:11:54,684 --> 00:11:56,465
are you seeing? What themes, what

333
00:11:56,845 --> 00:11:59,965
routines, you know, consistent issues that come to

334
00:11:59,965 --> 00:12:00,625
the surface?

335
00:12:01,019 --> 00:12:03,019
Man, there's a lot. I I feel like

336
00:12:03,019 --> 00:12:05,580
there's obvious ones that everyone is expecting me

337
00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:07,100
to say right now, and and those are

338
00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:08,700
real. There's a reason that those are the

339
00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:11,660
obvious ones. K? Pornography is a big it's

340
00:12:11,660 --> 00:12:12,560
a big issue.

341
00:12:13,195 --> 00:12:15,855
Feelings of anxiety, depression are are big issues.

342
00:12:16,235 --> 00:12:17,454
I think there's some underlying

343
00:12:17,914 --> 00:12:19,855
issues there that, you know, like,

344
00:12:20,235 --> 00:12:23,454
just not understanding and being okay with emotion.

345
00:12:23,514 --> 00:12:25,134
I think a lot of our our youth

346
00:12:25,509 --> 00:12:26,250
are just

347
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:28,470
trying to figure out a lot of emotions

348
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:30,069
and trying to navigate that, and that can

349
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:30,649
be challenging.

350
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:32,789
And I think that one of the reasons

351
00:12:32,789 --> 00:12:34,949
that that is so challenging is because there's

352
00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:37,350
so many things these days that are encouraging

353
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:38,409
our youth to

354
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:41,235
not have to feel. When I'm feeling something

355
00:12:41,235 --> 00:12:42,695
uncomfortable, I'm feeling something

356
00:12:43,235 --> 00:12:45,955
not awesome, then I can fall into my

357
00:12:45,955 --> 00:12:48,754
phone. Or Mhmm. I, you know, I don't

358
00:12:48,754 --> 00:12:50,434
have to I don't have to sit in

359
00:12:50,434 --> 00:12:52,675
the hard stuff. So I'm gonna distract myself

360
00:12:52,675 --> 00:12:55,559
with just scrolling. I'm gonna distract myself with

361
00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:56,059
pornography.

362
00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,360
I'm gonna, you know, distract myself in some

363
00:12:58,360 --> 00:12:59,879
other way. So a lot of it is

364
00:12:59,879 --> 00:13:01,500
honestly just helping them understand

365
00:13:01,879 --> 00:13:03,740
what they're feeling, what they need,

366
00:13:04,279 --> 00:13:06,600
and how to navigate that in a healthy

367
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,855
way that aligns with their values and where

368
00:13:08,855 --> 00:13:10,774
they want to be. Yeah. And it really

369
00:13:10,774 --> 00:13:12,475
is those. I mean, they have the stigmatizes

370
00:13:12,774 --> 00:13:15,334
things of, like, pornography and such, but, man,

371
00:13:15,334 --> 00:13:17,414
I just I often think back as I

372
00:13:17,414 --> 00:13:19,414
sort of witnessed my kids growing up and

373
00:13:19,414 --> 00:13:22,634
interacting in their stage of the timeline that

374
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:24,149
when how you know, is is that age

375
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:25,429
and I was going through a bad day.

376
00:13:25,429 --> 00:13:26,710
You just kinda sit in front of the

377
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:29,830
TV and channel surf even but it wasn't

378
00:13:29,830 --> 00:13:32,809
that enjoyable. It's like this random talk show.

379
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:35,424
Here's a you know, they're selling something Or

380
00:13:35,424 --> 00:13:37,205
this is, like, it is so easy to

381
00:13:37,825 --> 00:13:40,745
numb these days. Like, even in numb games

382
00:13:40,745 --> 00:13:42,485
and and, like, man, there there's

383
00:13:43,024 --> 00:13:44,245
so many things and

384
00:13:44,625 --> 00:13:47,024
and attention spans are are slower and different

385
00:13:47,024 --> 00:13:50,190
and, like, man, like, it it's it's just

386
00:13:50,490 --> 00:13:53,529
tough. Yeah. It's tough being it's tough navigating

387
00:13:53,529 --> 00:13:54,350
that as

388
00:13:54,809 --> 00:13:58,110
a teen as, you know, with just not

389
00:13:58,169 --> 00:14:00,009
as much life experience. Like, man, this is

390
00:14:00,009 --> 00:14:01,769
the first time I'm encountering some of these

391
00:14:01,769 --> 00:14:02,589
feelings, and

392
00:14:02,995 --> 00:14:03,815
I don't really

393
00:14:04,355 --> 00:14:06,514
know how to go about it. Mhmm. I'm

394
00:14:06,514 --> 00:14:09,075
curious, like, that initial visit you have with

395
00:14:09,075 --> 00:14:11,394
youth that because I could be wrong, but

396
00:14:11,394 --> 00:14:13,554
I imagine youth aren't generally telling their parents,

397
00:14:13,554 --> 00:14:15,014
I think I need to see a therapist.

398
00:14:15,235 --> 00:14:16,295
Or, you know,

399
00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:18,379
usually it's like, well, my mom kinda told

400
00:14:18,379 --> 00:14:19,899
me how to come. Come on, baby, be

401
00:14:19,899 --> 00:14:21,419
here. And that's the same thing I heard

402
00:14:21,419 --> 00:14:23,919
in seminary sometimes. Yeah. Right. You know, like,

403
00:14:23,980 --> 00:14:25,200
I'm here because my mom,

404
00:14:25,660 --> 00:14:27,980
you know The threats are Yeah. Take take

405
00:14:27,980 --> 00:14:30,059
away my phone or or whatever. So here

406
00:14:30,059 --> 00:14:32,165
I am. Yeah. And that's fine. Like, you

407
00:14:32,165 --> 00:14:33,924
know, if that's where we're at, that's an

408
00:14:33,924 --> 00:14:35,865
okay place to be. Yeah. Is that typically

409
00:14:36,004 --> 00:14:37,705
how it it starts and then

410
00:14:38,165 --> 00:14:40,085
or how do they how does that first,

411
00:14:40,085 --> 00:14:42,899
like, ten minutes go? I actually think that

412
00:14:42,899 --> 00:14:45,059
most people would be super surprised at how

413
00:14:45,059 --> 00:14:47,139
willing youth are to lean into something like

414
00:14:47,139 --> 00:14:47,639
that.

415
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:49,000
We assume

416
00:14:49,460 --> 00:14:51,960
I think we as as adults, as parents,

417
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:54,980
as leaders, as, you know, whatever, we we

418
00:14:54,980 --> 00:14:56,440
assume that, hey. Like,

419
00:14:56,904 --> 00:14:58,745
these youth don't want don't wanna just jump

420
00:14:58,745 --> 00:15:00,205
into the hard stuff right away,

421
00:15:00,904 --> 00:15:04,664
but they do. Like, they largely are ready

422
00:15:04,664 --> 00:15:06,424
for that and wanting that. I think it's

423
00:15:06,424 --> 00:15:08,504
something that they're craving even if they don't

424
00:15:08,504 --> 00:15:10,205
know that they're craving it. So

425
00:15:10,664 --> 00:15:11,884
a lot of what I do

426
00:15:12,419 --> 00:15:14,899
starting out with with youth is just getting

427
00:15:14,899 --> 00:15:16,899
them feeling a little bit, like, giving them

428
00:15:16,899 --> 00:15:19,399
some permission to feel. We'll often

429
00:15:19,700 --> 00:15:22,019
invite some different emotions into the room and

430
00:15:22,019 --> 00:15:24,120
let them interact with it a little bit.

431
00:15:24,355 --> 00:15:26,195
That might sound kinda strange in, like, non

432
00:15:26,195 --> 00:15:28,514
therapy land, but it makes sense. It fits.

433
00:15:28,514 --> 00:15:30,595
And it's just like, oh, like, actually, yeah,

434
00:15:30,595 --> 00:15:33,554
that that sadness that I just interacted with,

435
00:15:33,554 --> 00:15:36,615
it feels really familiar. That's what I'm experiencing

436
00:15:36,674 --> 00:15:38,339
a lot of the time. And just giving

437
00:15:38,339 --> 00:15:39,860
them a chance to feel that and then

438
00:15:39,860 --> 00:15:43,139
going, okay. Like, that's your like, now we're

439
00:15:43,139 --> 00:15:43,879
really recognizing

440
00:15:44,580 --> 00:15:47,379
these emotions. We're recognizing what's going on. And

441
00:15:47,379 --> 00:15:48,740
where do we wanna go from there? And

442
00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:50,580
I let them direct it a lot. You

443
00:15:50,580 --> 00:15:52,259
know? They'll they'll tell you what they need

444
00:15:52,259 --> 00:15:54,205
and what they want. Hey. I actually want

445
00:15:54,205 --> 00:15:55,884
to I wanna be able to deal with

446
00:15:55,884 --> 00:15:57,565
that in a different way when it comes

447
00:15:57,565 --> 00:16:00,205
up. Instead of when I get sad, turning

448
00:16:00,205 --> 00:16:03,165
to video games or scrolling or oversleeping or

449
00:16:03,165 --> 00:16:05,004
whatever, I wanna be able to get what

450
00:16:05,004 --> 00:16:07,379
I need there. Mhmm. And Yeah. Being okay

451
00:16:07,379 --> 00:16:09,539
with it. And it's it's, it's pretty cool

452
00:16:09,539 --> 00:16:11,220
to see them start to self direct that

453
00:16:11,220 --> 00:16:13,059
journey a bit for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's

454
00:16:13,059 --> 00:16:16,259
cool. Anything else about your experience or just

455
00:16:16,259 --> 00:16:18,259
those the the things you see that you

456
00:16:18,259 --> 00:16:20,565
wanna mention before we move on? I think

457
00:16:20,565 --> 00:16:23,524
something that I see with almost all youth

458
00:16:23,524 --> 00:16:25,365
once we get into the nitty gritty and

459
00:16:25,365 --> 00:16:26,825
we we sit with things,

460
00:16:27,285 --> 00:16:29,225
you know, a session or two or three

461
00:16:29,845 --> 00:16:32,585
is the presence of shame from different places.

462
00:16:32,779 --> 00:16:35,419
You know, that really affects how they're feeling

463
00:16:35,419 --> 00:16:36,559
their other emotions.

464
00:16:37,340 --> 00:16:39,419
And I think helping them see that and

465
00:16:39,419 --> 00:16:41,980
understand that is just a really cool thing,

466
00:16:41,980 --> 00:16:43,840
and and it's interesting to see

467
00:16:44,299 --> 00:16:46,304
how many different places that can come from.

468
00:16:46,384 --> 00:16:49,504
And sometimes it's uncomfortable to acknowledge that for

469
00:16:49,504 --> 00:16:51,904
these young people. Like, man, I might be

470
00:16:51,904 --> 00:16:54,725
carrying some shame because of a family situation

471
00:16:55,024 --> 00:16:56,004
or because of

472
00:16:56,384 --> 00:16:58,144
how my parents have approached this in the

473
00:16:58,144 --> 00:16:59,504
past. Like, that's a hard thing to say.

474
00:16:59,504 --> 00:17:01,664
Like, oh, like, maybe maybe my parents aren't

475
00:17:01,664 --> 00:17:04,033
perfect and they they make mistakes. Like, that's

476
00:17:04,033 --> 00:17:06,277
that's hard. Or maybe, man, like, maybe I

477
00:17:06,277 --> 00:17:08,520
feel shame because of how church has been

478
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,045
for me and to you know, because I've

479
00:17:11,045 --> 00:17:13,288
had maybe not the best experience talking to

480
00:17:13,288 --> 00:17:15,532
the bishop about something that was hard to

481
00:17:15,532 --> 00:17:18,295
talk to the bishop about. Or maybe I've

482
00:17:18,295 --> 00:17:20,235
had a poor experience sitting in a lesson

483
00:17:20,295 --> 00:17:22,934
and having someone tell me that, you know

484
00:17:23,095 --> 00:17:24,695
just just some of those things that that

485
00:17:24,695 --> 00:17:26,634
are hard. And, you know, maybe someone

486
00:17:27,174 --> 00:17:29,095
gave you the idea that that your worth

487
00:17:29,095 --> 00:17:31,409
is tied to what you're wearing or how

488
00:17:31,409 --> 00:17:33,329
you're presenting yourself. And, you know, some of

489
00:17:33,329 --> 00:17:36,529
those those messages that can be subliminal messages

490
00:17:36,529 --> 00:17:38,789
in church and and just seeing where

491
00:17:39,089 --> 00:17:39,649
where that,

492
00:17:40,849 --> 00:17:43,329
where that becomes a shame message that that

493
00:17:43,329 --> 00:17:43,756
someone carries around and then how that also

494
00:17:43,756 --> 00:17:43,878
interacts with the emotions that they're feeling and

495
00:17:43,878 --> 00:17:44,950
what they're what they're trying to navigate. Yeah.

496
00:17:47,375 --> 00:17:49,214
Emotions that they're feeling and what they're what

497
00:17:49,214 --> 00:17:51,134
they're trying to navigate. Yeah. I mean, that

498
00:17:51,134 --> 00:17:53,214
that shame is really and it's sort of

499
00:17:53,214 --> 00:17:53,375
this,

500
00:17:54,255 --> 00:17:56,115
abstract thing at times. It's like,

501
00:17:56,414 --> 00:17:57,394
you know, you can't

502
00:17:58,109 --> 00:18:00,309
you can't just take your body temperature and

503
00:18:00,309 --> 00:18:02,509
say, oh, you've got this much shame. You

504
00:18:02,509 --> 00:18:04,710
know? And it's something you're just swimming so

505
00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:07,460
much. When it comes to, like and, you

506
00:18:07,460 --> 00:18:09,660
know, as you mentioned earlier, like, having youth

507
00:18:09,660 --> 00:18:12,134
just, like, feel their feelings, like, getting like,

508
00:18:12,134 --> 00:18:13,654
at least be able to recognize them and

509
00:18:13,654 --> 00:18:15,335
grasp them. Because I think sometimes, you know,

510
00:18:15,335 --> 00:18:15,835
the

511
00:18:16,454 --> 00:18:19,494
the age old frustration of you ask you

512
00:18:19,575 --> 00:18:21,575
the youth how they're doing. They're like, fine

513
00:18:21,575 --> 00:18:23,015
or I don't know or it's just a

514
00:18:23,015 --> 00:18:24,454
shrug or whatever. And a lot of that

515
00:18:24,454 --> 00:18:25,115
is probably

516
00:18:25,654 --> 00:18:25,815
their

517
00:18:26,490 --> 00:18:28,089
that part of their brain or just the

518
00:18:28,089 --> 00:18:29,930
maturity of life, they haven't gotten to that

519
00:18:29,930 --> 00:18:31,470
place where they can really articulate,

520
00:18:33,609 --> 00:18:35,769
what what is it they're feeling even though

521
00:18:35,769 --> 00:18:37,609
there's a lot that they are feeling. And

522
00:18:37,609 --> 00:18:40,009
so helping them get to that place is

523
00:18:40,009 --> 00:18:42,545
probably a big step. Right? It is. We

524
00:18:42,545 --> 00:18:45,744
call that emotional literacy. Right? Just just being

525
00:18:45,744 --> 00:18:46,484
able to

526
00:18:46,865 --> 00:18:48,384
to express that a little bit. I do

527
00:18:48,384 --> 00:18:50,785
an exercise kinda towards the beginning with most

528
00:18:50,785 --> 00:18:52,884
of my clients that where I have them

529
00:18:53,345 --> 00:18:57,000
write down 10 positive emotion words and 10

530
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:57,500
negative

531
00:18:58,119 --> 00:18:59,019
emotion words.

532
00:18:59,559 --> 00:19:02,119
Now, you know, it's kinda tricky because emotions

533
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,200
aren't really positive or negative. They're just emotions.

534
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,279
Yeah. But for for that exercise, we we

535
00:19:06,279 --> 00:19:08,680
put them in positive and negative buckets. And

536
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,394
honestly, if I'm doing that with someone who's,

537
00:19:10,394 --> 00:19:12,494
you know, 15, 16, 17, 18,

538
00:19:13,115 --> 00:19:15,535
they start struggling after, like, three or four.

539
00:19:15,755 --> 00:19:17,695
Mhmm. Like, I have I have enough words

540
00:19:17,914 --> 00:19:18,734
to say

541
00:19:19,434 --> 00:19:19,934
happy,

542
00:19:20,715 --> 00:19:21,215
joyful

543
00:19:21,755 --> 00:19:24,090
Yeah. Which is kinda like happy Yeah. You

544
00:19:24,090 --> 00:19:25,690
know? And and and then it's like, oh,

545
00:19:25,690 --> 00:19:27,690
but but what else what else can I

546
00:19:27,690 --> 00:19:29,070
feel that's even positive?

547
00:19:29,529 --> 00:19:32,430
And just reminding them that, hey. Like, confident

548
00:19:32,570 --> 00:19:34,990
is a feeling Mhmm. And that,

549
00:19:35,529 --> 00:19:38,214
safe is a feeling that people would like,

550
00:19:38,214 --> 00:19:40,294
giving them some of the that language and

551
00:19:40,294 --> 00:19:40,794
helping

552
00:19:41,174 --> 00:19:43,654
them understand what that feels like in their

553
00:19:43,654 --> 00:19:44,154
body,

554
00:19:44,454 --> 00:19:46,774
you know, what that experience is like to

555
00:19:46,774 --> 00:19:48,615
feel confident and what it feels like to

556
00:19:48,615 --> 00:19:50,054
be safe. And the same thing on the

557
00:19:50,054 --> 00:19:51,755
negative stuff. Now people,

558
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,279
honestly, they usually have a little bit of

559
00:19:54,279 --> 00:19:56,599
an easier time coming up with 10 negative

560
00:19:56,599 --> 00:19:59,079
emotion words. Those are the ones where we

561
00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:01,640
we notice them more because they are more

562
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:02,140
uncomfortable.

563
00:20:02,919 --> 00:20:05,079
And as, you know so most people will

564
00:20:05,079 --> 00:20:07,654
get to five, six, seven of those and

565
00:20:07,654 --> 00:20:09,095
go, okay. Like, I'm I'm doing a lot

566
00:20:09,095 --> 00:20:11,095
better. But even five, six, or seven, like,

567
00:20:11,095 --> 00:20:13,414
there's a lot of emotions that Yeah. Are

568
00:20:13,414 --> 00:20:15,815
out there that generally feel negative. So just

569
00:20:15,815 --> 00:20:17,035
adding to their vocabulary,

570
00:20:17,414 --> 00:20:19,654
adding to their understanding of of what those

571
00:20:19,654 --> 00:20:23,169
emotions feel like and how they can, again,

572
00:20:23,169 --> 00:20:24,849
navigate them in a way that lines up

573
00:20:24,849 --> 00:20:26,849
with their values and that gets them to

574
00:20:26,849 --> 00:20:28,549
to where they wanna be is

575
00:20:28,929 --> 00:20:30,690
an essential part of the journey for them.

576
00:20:30,690 --> 00:20:32,929
Yeah. And that's I see that's really important

577
00:20:32,929 --> 00:20:35,695
where, like maybe a high school basketball player

578
00:20:35,995 --> 00:20:37,595
when he's on the court playing, he feels

579
00:20:37,595 --> 00:20:39,995
really happy when in reality that's confidence, you

580
00:20:39,995 --> 00:20:41,995
know, he feels confident I'm actually doing something

581
00:20:41,995 --> 00:20:43,434
I'm good at. And so I feel confident.

582
00:20:43,434 --> 00:20:44,654
So helping them

583
00:20:45,035 --> 00:20:47,595
identify that sort of like, it's very empowering

584
00:20:47,595 --> 00:20:49,500
and they're like, I'm starting it helps them

585
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:51,419
understand their world a little bit better. So

586
00:20:51,419 --> 00:20:53,599
as they, like, as they become more emotionally

587
00:20:53,740 --> 00:20:55,740
literate, I mean, what does that do? Does

588
00:20:55,740 --> 00:20:56,960
it just help them articulate

589
00:20:57,339 --> 00:20:59,980
their situation better or do they suddenly does

590
00:20:59,980 --> 00:21:02,059
this just kinda break things up psychologically in

591
00:21:02,059 --> 00:21:02,619
their mind? Or

592
00:21:03,404 --> 00:21:06,605
Yeah. What that does is, man, when I'm

593
00:21:06,605 --> 00:21:09,805
not emotionally literate, when something comes up that

594
00:21:09,805 --> 00:21:10,625
feels uncomfortable,

595
00:21:11,085 --> 00:21:12,525
I'm gonna find a way to deal with

596
00:21:12,525 --> 00:21:14,365
it. Mhmm. You know? That's where those some

597
00:21:14,365 --> 00:21:17,085
of those numbing behaviors or distracting behaviors come

598
00:21:17,085 --> 00:21:18,570
in. You know, whether

599
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:21,350
that's, with the ones we've mentioned, scrolling, video

600
00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:23,910
games, pornography, whatever. I don't have to feel

601
00:21:23,910 --> 00:21:24,650
that anymore.

602
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:26,490
But becoming more

603
00:21:27,269 --> 00:21:30,070
emotionally literate allows you to then go, okay.

604
00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:32,265
Actually, what do I need here? What am

605
00:21:32,265 --> 00:21:35,005
I in need of? Because it's probably not

606
00:21:35,384 --> 00:21:38,285
six hours of video games. It's probably not

607
00:21:38,664 --> 00:21:40,525
staying in bed till noon scrolling

608
00:21:40,984 --> 00:21:43,545
TikTok. Like, that's probably not what my body

609
00:21:43,545 --> 00:21:45,945
and my soul, my spirit need at this

610
00:21:45,945 --> 00:21:47,384
moment. So if I if we can help

611
00:21:47,384 --> 00:21:47,759
them

612
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,619
understand and feel,

613
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,940
then they get to choose.

614
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,799
It gives them more choice in how to

615
00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:55,700
approach that

616
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,480
and approaching it in a way I think,

617
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,660
you know, most kids, young adults,

618
00:22:01,105 --> 00:22:02,784
would agree that they they don't want to

619
00:22:02,784 --> 00:22:04,065
be on their phones all the time. They

620
00:22:04,065 --> 00:22:05,984
don't wanna be but they don't really know

621
00:22:05,984 --> 00:22:07,984
how else to handle it. So Mhmm. Once

622
00:22:07,984 --> 00:22:10,544
they once they understand those feelings a little

623
00:22:10,544 --> 00:22:12,960
bit better and they have some ways that

624
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,720
that they can approach those needs in different

625
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,359
ways. What I'm actually lacking right now is

626
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,859
not a whole bunch of time scrolling TikTok.

627
00:22:20,159 --> 00:22:22,500
What I'm lacking right now is connection. Yeah.

628
00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:24,559
And I need that because right now, I'm

629
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:27,214
I'm not feeling comfortable. I'm not feeling confident.

630
00:22:27,214 --> 00:22:27,954
I'm feeling

631
00:22:28,494 --> 00:22:30,974
alone. That's one of the ones that I

632
00:22:30,974 --> 00:22:31,474
think

633
00:22:31,775 --> 00:22:33,394
most parents would be

634
00:22:33,934 --> 00:22:35,454
jumping all the way back to the beginning

635
00:22:35,454 --> 00:22:37,294
of our conversation and those letters that I

636
00:22:37,294 --> 00:22:39,134
would get from students at the beginning of

637
00:22:39,134 --> 00:22:42,109
of the semester. I think lonely is probably

638
00:22:42,410 --> 00:22:44,509
the word that came up the most as

639
00:22:44,730 --> 00:22:47,230
how youth describe themselves today. Yeah.

640
00:22:47,609 --> 00:22:50,009
And I think the natural inclination is to

641
00:22:50,009 --> 00:22:51,609
tell tell the youth, well, you wouldn't be

642
00:22:51,609 --> 00:22:53,049
so lonely if you didn't have that phone

643
00:22:53,049 --> 00:22:53,549
out.

644
00:22:53,994 --> 00:22:55,515
You know, put your dang phone away and

645
00:22:55,515 --> 00:22:57,075
and, you know, like, we kinda come at

646
00:22:57,075 --> 00:22:58,335
it from just this logical,

647
00:22:58,794 --> 00:23:00,394
you're doing it to yourself kind of way.

648
00:23:00,394 --> 00:23:01,994
Go call a friend. Go go outside and

649
00:23:01,994 --> 00:23:03,674
play. Figure it out. Go go ride your

650
00:23:03,674 --> 00:23:06,829
bikes. Yeah. You know, like, but it because,

651
00:23:06,970 --> 00:23:08,490
you know, that that's just what we're used

652
00:23:08,490 --> 00:23:10,890
to. But being able to have them understand,

653
00:23:10,890 --> 00:23:12,650
hey. I'm I'm lonely, and what I need

654
00:23:12,650 --> 00:23:15,450
is connection. And for me, connection looks like

655
00:23:15,450 --> 00:23:15,950
this.

656
00:23:16,409 --> 00:23:19,105
This is when I feel connection. Mhmm. So

657
00:23:19,105 --> 00:23:20,625
that's what I need right now. I need

658
00:23:20,625 --> 00:23:22,065
to go to mom and dad. I need

659
00:23:22,065 --> 00:23:22,884
to go to

660
00:23:23,264 --> 00:23:25,204
friends. I need to reach out to somebody

661
00:23:25,505 --> 00:23:26,944
and let them know that I I need

662
00:23:26,944 --> 00:23:27,684
that connection.

663
00:23:27,984 --> 00:23:29,585
So let's pause on this journey is is

664
00:23:29,585 --> 00:23:31,024
what we're talking about. We're sort of on

665
00:23:31,024 --> 00:23:32,369
the the therapist

666
00:23:32,990 --> 00:23:34,049
route or context.

667
00:23:34,750 --> 00:23:36,829
Let's shift all the all we're talking about

668
00:23:36,829 --> 00:23:37,329
into

669
00:23:37,630 --> 00:23:39,869
a church leadership context, whether it's youth leaders,

670
00:23:39,869 --> 00:23:40,849
bishop's office.

671
00:23:41,230 --> 00:23:43,150
Like, they could be listening. It's like, great.

672
00:23:43,150 --> 00:23:44,509
I can see the value in this, and

673
00:23:44,509 --> 00:23:46,109
that's why, you know, they should maybe see

674
00:23:46,109 --> 00:23:48,265
a therapist. But, I mean, why should they

675
00:23:48,265 --> 00:23:49,865
care? What what can they they do with

676
00:23:49,865 --> 00:23:52,445
this on Sundays or during the youth activity?

677
00:23:52,904 --> 00:23:54,924
Man, I think that it would be awesome

678
00:23:54,984 --> 00:23:56,125
for church leaders

679
00:23:57,384 --> 00:23:59,144
to really find ways where they can invite

680
00:23:59,144 --> 00:24:00,125
some of that feeling

681
00:24:00,490 --> 00:24:03,210
into their weekly stuff, their their lessons, their

682
00:24:03,450 --> 00:24:05,609
And we're big feeling people, but we usually

683
00:24:05,609 --> 00:24:07,049
like and I I would call it a

684
00:24:07,049 --> 00:24:10,009
spiritual bypass. Like, it's a spirit. You know?

685
00:24:10,009 --> 00:24:12,089
The fruits of the spirit are and we

686
00:24:12,089 --> 00:24:14,649
kinda if you're feeling somewhat positive, that means

687
00:24:14,649 --> 00:24:16,325
it's the spirit moving on. Right? But Yeah.

688
00:24:16,404 --> 00:24:18,404
There's maybe more to that. Yeah. I I

689
00:24:18,404 --> 00:24:20,265
think, you know, something that that

690
00:24:20,565 --> 00:24:22,565
I also like to do with clients, it

691
00:24:22,565 --> 00:24:24,884
could be something that you do in Sunday

692
00:24:24,884 --> 00:24:26,644
to start off a lesson is and I

693
00:24:26,644 --> 00:24:29,059
think I've seen you do this, Kurt, is

694
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,220
laying down a whole bunch of different pictures

695
00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:32,960
on the ground. The floor checks. Yeah. Doing

696
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,299
some doing some floor checks. So easy,

697
00:24:35,759 --> 00:24:38,159
but gives people an opportunity to check-in and

698
00:24:38,159 --> 00:24:39,399
be like, oh, man. Like, you could throw

699
00:24:39,399 --> 00:24:41,234
a bunch of emojis on the ground and

700
00:24:41,234 --> 00:24:43,954
go, okay. What emoji feels the most relatable

701
00:24:43,954 --> 00:24:46,214
to you right now? Go stand by it,

702
00:24:46,355 --> 00:24:48,434
then tell the person closest to you why

703
00:24:48,434 --> 00:24:51,234
you chose that one. And it's so easy.

704
00:24:51,234 --> 00:24:53,315
And it just invites feeling. It invites a

705
00:24:53,315 --> 00:24:54,375
little bit of vulnerability,

706
00:24:54,980 --> 00:24:57,799
and it allows the youth to practice safety

707
00:24:58,339 --> 00:25:00,900
with themselves a little bit there. Right? And

708
00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:02,839
and to know, hey, I can actually

709
00:25:03,539 --> 00:25:06,580
tell someone that I'm sad, and they'll receive

710
00:25:06,580 --> 00:25:07,559
it and probably

711
00:25:07,940 --> 00:25:10,744
not, like, you know, hurt me or shame

712
00:25:10,744 --> 00:25:12,744
me or anything like that. Like, they'll they'll

713
00:25:12,744 --> 00:25:14,984
be there for me, and it's a powerful

714
00:25:14,984 --> 00:25:17,144
thing. And that's so easy to do. Yeah.

715
00:25:17,144 --> 00:25:19,065
The floor check is especially, I've used this

716
00:25:19,065 --> 00:25:20,045
with youth audiences.

717
00:25:20,505 --> 00:25:22,585
Like, they can't help but talk. I mean,

718
00:25:22,585 --> 00:25:25,380
can you imagine, like, a tactic that would

719
00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:27,140
almost force you to to talk in a

720
00:25:27,140 --> 00:25:29,619
good way. Right? And I'll plug, like, a

721
00:25:29,619 --> 00:25:31,059
a really simple way to do this in

722
00:25:31,059 --> 00:25:33,320
our context is I went to the distribution

723
00:25:33,460 --> 00:25:34,980
center. You can get the I think it's

724
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:37,940
called the gospel lie gospel art library or

725
00:25:37,940 --> 00:25:39,779
something. It's the book. It has all the

726
00:25:39,779 --> 00:25:42,195
pictures of the old testament, new testament, book

727
00:25:42,195 --> 00:25:44,075
of Mormon. It's all there. I think it's

728
00:25:44,075 --> 00:25:45,835
spiral bound, but I just I bought that.

729
00:25:45,835 --> 00:25:48,234
It's, like, 5 to $10 or something. I

730
00:25:48,234 --> 00:25:49,375
took off the the

731
00:25:49,755 --> 00:25:51,515
spine, just cut it off, and now I

732
00:25:51,515 --> 00:25:53,855
have all these pictures of scripture stories.

733
00:25:54,315 --> 00:25:55,695
And you lay those out

734
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,759
and you say, you know, maybe go stand

735
00:25:57,759 --> 00:25:58,580
by the picture

736
00:25:58,960 --> 00:25:59,460
that,

737
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,680
most misrepresents your week. Right? And, man, it's

738
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,600
amazing where they stand and just how vulnerable

739
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,359
they get so quick. Anyways, I I need

740
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:08,720
to do an episode with you and your

741
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:09,220
team

742
00:26:09,934 --> 00:26:12,194
of all these different like, some

743
00:26:12,494 --> 00:26:13,394
sort of beginning

744
00:26:14,974 --> 00:26:15,954
beginning kit of

745
00:26:16,414 --> 00:26:18,494
of some of these activities because they're so

746
00:26:18,494 --> 00:26:21,234
effective, and they're so simple. Like, crazy simple

747
00:26:21,295 --> 00:26:23,559
to do, and they're really effective. Yeah. It's

748
00:26:23,559 --> 00:26:26,139
it's awesome. And, again, really, you're just looking

749
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:29,319
for an opportunity to let youth feel those

750
00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:30,779
things for themselves,

751
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,480
but then, like, bonus points if you also

752
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,085
can help them express it. Right? If you

753
00:26:36,085 --> 00:26:37,765
can help them to to say it out

754
00:26:37,765 --> 00:26:39,384
loud and share it with someone

755
00:26:39,845 --> 00:26:42,184
because then, again, they get to experience that

756
00:26:42,404 --> 00:26:42,904
authenticity,

757
00:26:43,204 --> 00:26:45,684
that vulnerability that's there, and then they also,

758
00:26:45,684 --> 00:26:48,269
you know, fingers crossed, I think you can

759
00:26:48,269 --> 00:26:50,109
you can help manage the experience a little

760
00:26:50,109 --> 00:26:51,869
bit, but you want them to experience some

761
00:26:51,869 --> 00:26:53,890
safety there too and making sure that,

762
00:26:54,190 --> 00:26:56,509
like, help your youth understand what it looks

763
00:26:56,509 --> 00:26:58,930
like to receive someone's emotions

764
00:26:59,390 --> 00:27:01,330
Mhmm. When they're sharing them vulnerably

765
00:27:03,585 --> 00:27:04,085
vulnerably

766
00:27:05,184 --> 00:27:07,184
and, you know, how we can show up

767
00:27:07,184 --> 00:27:09,025
for each other in that way. Yeah. And

768
00:27:09,025 --> 00:27:11,105
so it sounds like you're just creating space

769
00:27:11,105 --> 00:27:11,605
of

770
00:27:11,984 --> 00:27:14,704
maybe sort of just checking in with those

771
00:27:14,704 --> 00:27:16,484
in the class or those that you're leading.

772
00:27:16,769 --> 00:27:18,549
Like, what are you feeling right now? Like,

773
00:27:19,250 --> 00:27:20,609
did you get in a fight with your

774
00:27:20,609 --> 00:27:22,450
mom that you don't wanna be here and

775
00:27:22,450 --> 00:27:24,390
here you are and you're, you know, just

776
00:27:24,450 --> 00:27:26,289
not willing to talk about it or, like

777
00:27:26,450 --> 00:27:28,369
and just being willing to create hold space

778
00:27:28,369 --> 00:27:30,384
for that, right, of being okay. Because, like,

779
00:27:30,384 --> 00:27:30,964
when you

780
00:27:31,265 --> 00:27:33,105
mentioned someone will tell you they're lonely, you

781
00:27:33,105 --> 00:27:35,265
don't immediately jump to, like, well, let's look

782
00:27:35,265 --> 00:27:37,265
in your, you know, contact list. Let's find

783
00:27:37,265 --> 00:27:39,184
five friends you could call. Right? Like but

784
00:27:39,184 --> 00:27:41,184
you're just taking more to be okay. Like,

785
00:27:41,184 --> 00:27:42,944
well, in this office, you can be lonely,

786
00:27:42,944 --> 00:27:44,144
and I'll and I'll just be here in

787
00:27:44,144 --> 00:27:46,500
your loneliness with you, and let's explore that.

788
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:48,500
Right? Absolutely. I think that's where a lot

789
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:50,420
of shame comes from is when we're feeling

790
00:27:50,420 --> 00:27:52,119
something like lonely and

791
00:27:52,580 --> 00:27:54,900
the voice in our head, that inner critic

792
00:27:54,900 --> 00:27:57,240
voice says, hey. Well, if you're lonely, just

793
00:27:57,700 --> 00:27:59,954
figure it out. Do something different. You know?

794
00:27:59,954 --> 00:28:02,035
The way you're doing things is wrong if

795
00:28:02,035 --> 00:28:04,355
you're feeling lonely. And, like, what if that's

796
00:28:04,355 --> 00:28:05,954
not the case? What if you're actually just

797
00:28:05,954 --> 00:28:08,615
allowed to feel lonely sometimes? Yeah. And and,

798
00:28:08,755 --> 00:28:10,515
like, what a game changer that is to

799
00:28:10,515 --> 00:28:11,575
just be like, oh,

800
00:28:11,954 --> 00:28:14,694
I'm okay to be sad. I'm okay to

801
00:28:15,139 --> 00:28:15,960
feel betrayed.

802
00:28:16,339 --> 00:28:17,159
I'm okay

803
00:28:17,859 --> 00:28:20,339
to to be lonely and not have to

804
00:28:20,339 --> 00:28:21,319
fix it immediately,

805
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:24,579
but to feel it enough to know this

806
00:28:24,579 --> 00:28:26,500
is how I can fix it. Yeah. Right?

807
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:28,740
And so being able to to facilitate that

808
00:28:28,740 --> 00:28:31,845
in in a Sunday setting is challenging and

809
00:28:31,845 --> 00:28:33,044
it can be a little bit harder with

810
00:28:33,044 --> 00:28:34,325
a group. Right? I'm doing a lot of

811
00:28:34,325 --> 00:28:37,125
stuff one on one right now, but having

812
00:28:37,125 --> 00:28:39,684
a group just also also just allows for

813
00:28:39,684 --> 00:28:41,924
some additional magic to happen too if you

814
00:28:41,924 --> 00:28:43,764
can just invite that in. And I know

815
00:28:43,764 --> 00:28:45,890
that as leaders, we jump in and it's

816
00:28:45,890 --> 00:28:47,809
like, hey. I prepared this lesson and, like,

817
00:28:47,809 --> 00:28:50,470
trust me. I I have seven years

818
00:28:51,329 --> 00:28:51,990
of teaching

819
00:28:52,609 --> 00:28:55,509
20 lessons a week, probably, something like that,

820
00:28:55,970 --> 00:28:57,349
15 lessons a week,

821
00:28:57,825 --> 00:28:59,984
and not ever getting to the end of

822
00:28:59,984 --> 00:29:02,625
the lesson. Right. Like, I would prepare every

823
00:29:02,625 --> 00:29:03,765
lesson knowing

824
00:29:04,144 --> 00:29:05,684
that I am going to

825
00:29:06,144 --> 00:29:06,964
get to

826
00:29:07,424 --> 00:29:10,384
anywhere from a third to half of that

827
00:29:10,384 --> 00:29:10,884
lesson.

828
00:29:11,424 --> 00:29:12,085
And so

829
00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:13,980
we do the good stuff,

830
00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:16,039
and then we bring that lesson in and

831
00:29:16,039 --> 00:29:18,599
and have that lesson be more applicable now

832
00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:20,279
rather than just this is the lesson I

833
00:29:20,279 --> 00:29:21,960
prepared, and I'm so desperate to share it

834
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,099
with you. It becomes,

835
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,079
oh, we have people in here who are

836
00:29:25,079 --> 00:29:25,579
feeling

837
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,259
lonely, who are feeling

838
00:29:27,704 --> 00:29:29,164
stressed, who are feeling

839
00:29:29,625 --> 00:29:31,304
happy. Like, how do we bring this lesson

840
00:29:31,304 --> 00:29:32,444
in and have it actually

841
00:29:32,825 --> 00:29:34,505
be meaningful for them? Mhmm. You know? And

842
00:29:34,505 --> 00:29:35,944
that's when you get to pick, like, hey.

843
00:29:35,944 --> 00:29:37,704
This third of the of the lesson that

844
00:29:37,704 --> 00:29:38,365
I prepared

845
00:29:38,744 --> 00:29:40,664
is the the third that my class needs

846
00:29:40,664 --> 00:29:42,265
right now. Yeah. And I don't have to

847
00:29:42,265 --> 00:29:43,164
get to everything.

848
00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:45,279
They'll they'll get it all because, like you

849
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:46,019
said earlier,

850
00:29:46,319 --> 00:29:48,960
they've got bishops, they have youth leaders, they

851
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,599
have parents, they have seminary teachers. Like, we're

852
00:29:51,599 --> 00:29:53,279
all teaming up on this thing. If they

853
00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:55,059
don't get the whole lesson on Sunday,

854
00:29:55,694 --> 00:29:56,194
then,

855
00:29:56,494 --> 00:29:57,855
you know, they'll get part of it in

856
00:29:57,855 --> 00:29:59,615
seminary. They'll get part of it from other

857
00:29:59,615 --> 00:30:02,095
places, and it'll be okay. And where my

858
00:30:02,095 --> 00:30:04,494
mind goes, this may sound too abstract, and

859
00:30:04,494 --> 00:30:06,274
I don't mean it that way. But oftentimes,

860
00:30:06,815 --> 00:30:07,315
we,

861
00:30:07,615 --> 00:30:09,694
as teachers or if we're engaging with youth,

862
00:30:09,694 --> 00:30:11,154
you know, since we're in that context,

863
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:13,690
we come in with data points. Like,

864
00:30:14,070 --> 00:30:15,830
whether it's, you know, we're we're in the

865
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:17,289
doctrine and covenants right now,

866
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:19,910
whether it's the translation process or this date

867
00:30:19,910 --> 00:30:21,369
in this location. And

868
00:30:21,670 --> 00:30:23,029
and our goal is to get to the

869
00:30:23,029 --> 00:30:24,490
feeling point because

870
00:30:24,984 --> 00:30:26,744
there's a change agent there, which is the

871
00:30:26,744 --> 00:30:27,644
spirit. Right?

872
00:30:27,944 --> 00:30:29,804
And so if I think if we just

873
00:30:30,184 --> 00:30:32,105
sort of surrender that at times and just

874
00:30:32,105 --> 00:30:34,424
saying, like, where's people at? And maybe I'll

875
00:30:34,424 --> 00:30:35,865
put the data over here if I need

876
00:30:35,865 --> 00:30:37,544
it. Like but if we can get them

877
00:30:37,544 --> 00:30:39,650
a place of of feeling something,

878
00:30:40,029 --> 00:30:41,630
like, the spirit will teach them all the

879
00:30:41,630 --> 00:30:43,150
data points at some point in their life

880
00:30:43,150 --> 00:30:45,090
of those things and that those are important

881
00:30:45,470 --> 00:30:47,630
for context and to some extent. But and

882
00:30:47,630 --> 00:30:48,910
I think that's kind of the theme we're

883
00:30:48,910 --> 00:30:50,910
going with with this so far is this

884
00:30:50,910 --> 00:30:53,224
concept of feelings that I mean, that's

885
00:30:53,765 --> 00:30:55,285
why we have the fruits of the spirit,

886
00:30:55,285 --> 00:30:57,125
you know, that there's it's important to tap

887
00:30:57,125 --> 00:30:59,605
into those. So Yeah. And that just I

888
00:30:59,605 --> 00:31:01,365
mean, that reminds you of an experience that

889
00:31:01,365 --> 00:31:03,765
I just had relatively recently with my kids

890
00:31:03,765 --> 00:31:05,539
at home. I'm trying to be a better

891
00:31:05,539 --> 00:31:07,460
seminary teacher at home now that I'm not

892
00:31:07,460 --> 00:31:08,980
doing it full time. A lot of people

893
00:31:08,980 --> 00:31:10,980
assume that seminary teachers are great at come

894
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:11,700
follow me, but,

895
00:31:12,259 --> 00:31:14,099
come to my house. I will prove you

896
00:31:14,099 --> 00:31:14,599
otherwise.

897
00:31:15,460 --> 00:31:17,960
And so we've wrestled with it. It's hard,

898
00:31:18,019 --> 00:31:19,460
you know, trying to figure out the right

899
00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:21,674
timing, all this stuff. But anyway, earlier this

900
00:31:21,674 --> 00:31:23,595
year, as we're jumping into doctrine and covenants,

901
00:31:23,595 --> 00:31:25,914
which for me as a seminary teacher has

902
00:31:25,914 --> 00:31:27,835
been the hardest like, that that's kinda the

903
00:31:27,835 --> 00:31:30,394
hardest chunk of scripture to teach, honestly. Mhmm.

904
00:31:30,394 --> 00:31:32,174
If I mean, other people

905
00:31:32,474 --> 00:31:34,690
would say otherwise, and that's fine. But this

906
00:31:34,690 --> 00:31:36,850
one's hard. And because there is so much

907
00:31:36,850 --> 00:31:38,369
content, you kinda get lost in all the

908
00:31:38,369 --> 00:31:40,450
details. At least I I felt like that

909
00:31:40,450 --> 00:31:41,190
way sometimes.

910
00:31:41,650 --> 00:31:44,369
Earlier in probably January when we were talking

911
00:31:44,369 --> 00:31:47,009
about Martin Harris and then the, you know,

912
00:31:47,009 --> 00:31:48,130
the 16

913
00:31:48,130 --> 00:31:48,630
pages

914
00:31:49,105 --> 00:31:50,384
that were lost. I feel like you can

915
00:31:50,384 --> 00:31:52,464
get into so much cool stuff about, you

916
00:31:52,464 --> 00:31:54,224
know, here's what happened and here's why they

917
00:31:54,224 --> 00:31:57,024
were lost. And here's Joseph asking a bunch

918
00:31:57,024 --> 00:31:58,944
of times and and all the things and

919
00:31:58,944 --> 00:32:00,464
where did those 16

920
00:32:00,464 --> 00:32:03,024
pages go? And here's how Nephi actually kinda

921
00:32:03,024 --> 00:32:05,140
like you know, this thing happened with Nephi

922
00:32:05,140 --> 00:32:06,740
where he actually kinda copied a lot of

923
00:32:06,740 --> 00:32:08,820
what was on there into his version. And

924
00:32:08,820 --> 00:32:10,580
so, like, we didn't really meant you know,

925
00:32:10,580 --> 00:32:11,640
there's tons of details.

926
00:32:12,019 --> 00:32:13,539
And I just wanted to slow down with

927
00:32:13,539 --> 00:32:15,539
my my kids on that. And we read

928
00:32:15,539 --> 00:32:18,359
doctrine and covenants section three where

929
00:32:18,715 --> 00:32:20,894
God is addressing Martin and

930
00:32:21,355 --> 00:32:21,855
Joseph,

931
00:32:22,394 --> 00:32:24,815
and all we looked for was,

932
00:32:25,355 --> 00:32:26,875
what does this help us understand and learn

933
00:32:26,875 --> 00:32:29,755
about God? Mhmm. Like, that's it. Yeah. You

934
00:32:29,755 --> 00:32:31,455
know, all the details, all the dates,

935
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,759
this is how it happened, who took them,

936
00:32:33,759 --> 00:32:35,460
what happened, you know, like all the

937
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:36,900
Yeah. The conspiracy.

938
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,200
It's fine. Like and and that's I I

939
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:40,880
feel like we just get lost, but it

940
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,220
was so cool to hear my kids express,

941
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:46,900
like, oh, man. Like, God loves second chances.

942
00:32:47,394 --> 00:32:49,634
Mhmm. Like, that's what I want my kids

943
00:32:49,634 --> 00:32:51,315
to know. I want them to know that

944
00:32:51,315 --> 00:32:54,115
much more than where are these 16 pages

945
00:32:54,115 --> 00:32:55,554
now. I want them to know that God

946
00:32:55,554 --> 00:32:57,634
loves second chances. I want them to know

947
00:32:57,634 --> 00:33:01,529
that God is understanding of, like, where we're

948
00:33:01,529 --> 00:33:03,769
at and, like, he's willing to teach us

949
00:33:03,769 --> 00:33:05,450
and willing to help us get better. And,

950
00:33:05,450 --> 00:33:07,369
like, that's the kind of stuff when we're

951
00:33:07,369 --> 00:33:08,670
just willing to feel

952
00:33:08,970 --> 00:33:11,690
and concentrate on that part of things. I

953
00:33:11,690 --> 00:33:14,410
I think just man, I think connection can

954
00:33:14,410 --> 00:33:16,509
happen a lot more between us and God.

955
00:33:16,705 --> 00:33:17,765
Yeah. That's powerful.

956
00:33:18,305 --> 00:33:20,785
Something changed for you. Right? Like, what unpack

957
00:33:20,785 --> 00:33:21,765
that for us.

958
00:33:23,505 --> 00:33:25,424
Man, a lot of things have have changed

959
00:33:25,424 --> 00:33:27,345
for me, and I I think that this

960
00:33:27,345 --> 00:33:29,105
was all part of what led me from

961
00:33:29,105 --> 00:33:30,725
seminary teacher into therapy.

962
00:33:31,230 --> 00:33:33,250
But I feel like the way that I

963
00:33:33,309 --> 00:33:35,490
approach the gospel has changed significantly

964
00:33:35,789 --> 00:33:36,609
over the last

965
00:33:37,069 --> 00:33:39,150
the last five to seven years of of

966
00:33:39,150 --> 00:33:39,890
my life.

967
00:33:40,429 --> 00:33:42,509
You know? And, again, this might feel like

968
00:33:42,509 --> 00:33:44,035
kind of a shift, but stick with it,

969
00:33:44,035 --> 00:33:45,795
and we'll we'll get back to how this

970
00:33:45,795 --> 00:33:48,355
ties in with everything else. But growing up,

971
00:33:48,355 --> 00:33:50,674
I put a lot of stock into all

972
00:33:50,674 --> 00:33:51,174
the

973
00:33:51,715 --> 00:33:54,515
checkbox things. Right? I wasn't even all that

974
00:33:54,515 --> 00:33:56,115
great at them, but I knew they were

975
00:33:56,115 --> 00:33:59,015
super important. Right? And whenever I was falling

976
00:33:59,099 --> 00:34:01,339
short or perceived that I might be falling

977
00:34:01,339 --> 00:34:04,220
short or I was frustrated with, you know,

978
00:34:04,220 --> 00:34:05,839
not having answers to my prayers,

979
00:34:06,140 --> 00:34:08,780
it always came back to, well, if you

980
00:34:08,780 --> 00:34:09,760
followed the formula

981
00:34:10,139 --> 00:34:12,539
Mhmm. Then it would be working better. Right?

982
00:34:12,539 --> 00:34:13,914
If you were in your scriptures every day,

983
00:34:13,914 --> 00:34:15,514
if you were praying every day, it would

984
00:34:15,514 --> 00:34:16,255
work better.

985
00:34:16,554 --> 00:34:18,954
And so the checkbox things for me just

986
00:34:18,954 --> 00:34:21,275
became like, this is how I know I'm

987
00:34:21,275 --> 00:34:22,974
doing the gospel well,

988
00:34:23,275 --> 00:34:25,434
and this is how, you know, god's gonna

989
00:34:25,434 --> 00:34:27,614
be proud of me and all the things.

990
00:34:27,674 --> 00:34:28,414
And so,

991
00:34:28,860 --> 00:34:29,360
man,

992
00:34:30,300 --> 00:34:32,380
I would bargain a lot with God, and

993
00:34:32,380 --> 00:34:35,260
I would, you know, just man, it's it's

994
00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:37,579
a way that, honestly, shame was able to

995
00:34:37,579 --> 00:34:39,440
invite itself into my life and

996
00:34:39,740 --> 00:34:41,340
talk to me a lot about where I

997
00:34:41,340 --> 00:34:42,880
was falling short, and and

998
00:34:43,284 --> 00:34:45,065
it just made the gospel

999
00:34:45,684 --> 00:34:46,664
kind of a miserable

1000
00:34:46,965 --> 00:34:48,344
experience in some ways.

1001
00:34:48,644 --> 00:34:49,864
Mhmm. But then

1002
00:34:50,244 --> 00:34:52,264
I had never planned on becoming a seminary

1003
00:34:52,324 --> 00:34:53,925
teacher. But when I got there, it was

1004
00:34:53,925 --> 00:34:56,210
like, hey. I won. Like You did it.

1005
00:34:56,289 --> 00:34:58,449
Like, I did it. This is now I'm

1006
00:34:58,449 --> 00:35:00,710
doing all the things. Like, it's my literal

1007
00:35:00,849 --> 00:35:01,349
job

1008
00:35:01,889 --> 00:35:03,829
to do the gospel things. Uh-huh.

1009
00:35:04,449 --> 00:35:07,010
Full time, like, forty hours a week, I'm

1010
00:35:07,010 --> 00:35:09,405
studying my scriptures. I'm saying so many prayers

1011
00:35:09,405 --> 00:35:11,724
a day, it's, like, goofy. Right? Like, it

1012
00:35:11,925 --> 00:35:14,765
it's man, I won. I I got the

1013
00:35:14,765 --> 00:35:15,265
ultimate,

1014
00:35:15,965 --> 00:35:17,344
like, poser prize

1015
00:35:17,644 --> 00:35:18,144
of

1016
00:35:18,525 --> 00:35:20,844
now I'm doing everything. Big fat star on

1017
00:35:20,844 --> 00:35:23,230
your forehead. Just Yeah. Yeah. And so God's

1018
00:35:23,230 --> 00:35:24,670
gonna be proud of me, and I'm gonna

1019
00:35:24,670 --> 00:35:26,369
feel different and all this stuff.

1020
00:35:26,910 --> 00:35:28,989
And it it didn't change things for me.

1021
00:35:28,989 --> 00:35:30,670
I thought, man, now I'm really gonna be

1022
00:35:30,670 --> 00:35:31,489
able to be

1023
00:35:31,869 --> 00:35:33,309
close with God, and now I'm gonna you

1024
00:35:33,309 --> 00:35:35,869
know? And and so it kinda hurt even

1025
00:35:35,869 --> 00:35:37,525
more to be like, man, now I'm doing

1026
00:35:37,525 --> 00:35:39,545
all the stuff. I'm following all the formulas

1027
00:35:39,844 --> 00:35:42,664
for forty hours a week or more. Right?

1028
00:35:42,965 --> 00:35:44,664
And it's still not working.

1029
00:35:45,125 --> 00:35:47,525
And I think something shifted in me a

1030
00:35:47,525 --> 00:35:49,784
little bit when COVID nineteen happened

1031
00:35:50,199 --> 00:35:51,960
back in 2020. That was a crazy time

1032
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,980
to be a seminary teacher. I bet. Yeah.

1033
00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:57,480
One Friday, we're at school. The next week,

1034
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,719
we are all online and teaching on Zoom,

1035
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,719
and I didn't know what Zoom was before

1036
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,835
then. You know, all this stuff. Yeah. And

1037
00:36:03,835 --> 00:36:04,974
I I got home

1038
00:36:05,594 --> 00:36:08,235
and when I was in seminary teacher mode,

1039
00:36:08,235 --> 00:36:09,594
I'm like, hey, man. Like, I'm I'm doing

1040
00:36:09,675 --> 00:36:11,434
again, I'm doing all the checklist stuff. I'm

1041
00:36:11,434 --> 00:36:12,974
reading the conference talks. I'm

1042
00:36:13,275 --> 00:36:15,195
kneeling and praying, and I'm doing all this

1043
00:36:15,195 --> 00:36:16,394
stuff. And and I would even look at

1044
00:36:16,394 --> 00:36:18,059
people around me and be like, man, you

1045
00:36:18,059 --> 00:36:20,140
know, I wish that they were doing more

1046
00:36:20,140 --> 00:36:21,660
of this stuff. Yeah. And It's so easy.

1047
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:22,140
Just to

1048
00:36:23,099 --> 00:36:25,599
I hate admitting that I even

1049
00:36:26,380 --> 00:36:28,300
felt that way toward my wife sometimes. So

1050
00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:29,660
I'd be like, hey. Like, I'm I'm doing

1051
00:36:29,660 --> 00:36:31,420
all the all the things, and, like, I

1052
00:36:31,420 --> 00:36:33,119
don't see you doing as many things.

1053
00:36:33,494 --> 00:36:34,234
And, like,

1054
00:36:35,014 --> 00:36:36,775
I know that saying that out loud, everyone

1055
00:36:36,775 --> 00:36:39,255
listening to this is like, well, what a

1056
00:36:39,255 --> 00:36:39,755
jerk.

1057
00:36:40,375 --> 00:36:40,875
And

1058
00:36:41,255 --> 00:36:42,714
you would be right. That's fine.

1059
00:36:43,014 --> 00:36:45,275
I'll take that on. But I I think

1060
00:36:45,574 --> 00:36:46,554
coming home

1061
00:36:47,014 --> 00:36:48,315
and being at home,

1062
00:36:48,699 --> 00:36:50,880
like, literally from March to, like,

1063
00:36:51,340 --> 00:36:53,039
July, August of that year

1064
00:36:53,340 --> 00:36:55,360
was super eye opening for me

1065
00:36:55,660 --> 00:36:56,160
because

1066
00:36:56,940 --> 00:36:59,579
what I saw was me doing all the

1067
00:36:59,579 --> 00:37:00,079
things

1068
00:37:00,380 --> 00:37:03,019
and not having it strengthen my relationship with

1069
00:37:03,019 --> 00:37:03,519
god,

1070
00:37:03,835 --> 00:37:06,155
And I saw my wife not doing all

1071
00:37:06,155 --> 00:37:08,394
the things how I thought she should be

1072
00:37:08,394 --> 00:37:09,054
doing them

1073
00:37:09,675 --> 00:37:12,335
and walking her life with god in

1074
00:37:12,635 --> 00:37:14,235
a so much more effective way than I

1075
00:37:14,235 --> 00:37:14,735
was,

1076
00:37:15,434 --> 00:37:17,054
where she would turn to him

1077
00:37:17,355 --> 00:37:18,735
often throughout the day

1078
00:37:19,369 --> 00:37:21,690
and rely on him and be in constant

1079
00:37:21,690 --> 00:37:23,630
communication with him and

1080
00:37:24,250 --> 00:37:26,590
guess how many conference talks she read? Like,

1081
00:37:26,809 --> 00:37:27,309
none.

1082
00:37:27,610 --> 00:37:29,369
And and yet I was like, why why

1083
00:37:29,369 --> 00:37:30,809
is she better at this than me? Like,

1084
00:37:30,809 --> 00:37:32,329
this is you know, it kinda rocked my

1085
00:37:32,329 --> 00:37:34,650
world and, again, invited Shane in there. Like,

1086
00:37:34,650 --> 00:37:36,464
you you should be better. You gotta keep

1087
00:37:36,464 --> 00:37:38,144
up. You gotta and I'm like, crap. Like,

1088
00:37:38,144 --> 00:37:40,304
I'm already doing all the things, and it's

1089
00:37:40,304 --> 00:37:42,224
not working. And so, like, man, how much

1090
00:37:42,224 --> 00:37:43,744
more can I even do? I'm a seminary

1091
00:37:43,744 --> 00:37:44,244
teacher.

1092
00:37:44,784 --> 00:37:45,284
And

1093
00:37:45,744 --> 00:37:48,300
it just, like, I had to pause. I

1094
00:37:48,300 --> 00:37:50,380
had to figure that out because that was

1095
00:37:50,380 --> 00:37:52,960
something that was really, really messing with me.

1096
00:37:53,260 --> 00:37:54,000
And so

1097
00:37:54,860 --> 00:37:56,940
there were a lot of things that helped

1098
00:37:56,940 --> 00:37:58,559
me start to figure that out.

1099
00:37:59,099 --> 00:37:59,760
I think

1100
00:38:00,059 --> 00:38:02,219
experiencing Warrior Heart, which I know is if

1101
00:38:02,219 --> 00:38:04,734
people have listened to to your podcast, they

1102
00:38:04,734 --> 00:38:06,114
know about Warrior Heart.

1103
00:38:06,574 --> 00:38:08,835
Experiencing that just helped me to

1104
00:38:09,454 --> 00:38:11,795
just actually invite more authenticity

1105
00:38:12,175 --> 00:38:14,514
into the relationship that I had with god.

1106
00:38:14,894 --> 00:38:16,910
That, again, going back to what we're talking

1107
00:38:16,910 --> 00:38:19,070
about with youth, that I'm allowed to feel

1108
00:38:19,070 --> 00:38:21,390
feelings with God. I don't have to pray

1109
00:38:21,390 --> 00:38:23,390
and have it sound perfect and have it

1110
00:38:23,390 --> 00:38:23,890
sound

1111
00:38:24,349 --> 00:38:27,150
like everything's great all the time because sometimes

1112
00:38:27,150 --> 00:38:28,910
things aren't great. Mhmm. And I can go

1113
00:38:28,910 --> 00:38:30,990
to God and say, hey, God. Like, I'm

1114
00:38:30,990 --> 00:38:31,490
mad.

1115
00:38:31,925 --> 00:38:34,005
Hey, God. Like, this hurts. Mhmm. It hurts

1116
00:38:34,005 --> 00:38:35,844
that you're not answering me the way that

1117
00:38:35,844 --> 00:38:37,605
I want. Like, can we figure this out?

1118
00:38:37,605 --> 00:38:39,844
You know? And that that kinda conversation was

1119
00:38:39,844 --> 00:38:42,105
something that I'd never had with God

1120
00:38:42,724 --> 00:38:43,224
even,

1121
00:38:43,764 --> 00:38:45,925
you know, through thirty something years of my

1122
00:38:45,925 --> 00:38:47,880
life. It was like, man, like, this was

1123
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,599
a new thing for me to just be

1124
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:51,860
able to, like, break those walls down

1125
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:52,980
and

1126
00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:54,900
start to trust him

1127
00:38:55,519 --> 00:38:57,300
with my real self.

1128
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,599
And it's scary. That's a vulnerable thing to

1129
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:00,420
do Mhmm.

1130
00:39:00,730 --> 00:39:01,230
Because

1131
00:39:01,855 --> 00:39:04,175
what if I do that and it still

1132
00:39:04,175 --> 00:39:06,894
feels the same? Mhmm. Right? And it still

1133
00:39:06,894 --> 00:39:07,394
feels

1134
00:39:07,695 --> 00:39:08,195
not

1135
00:39:08,735 --> 00:39:09,934
as authentic, not not as

1136
00:39:10,735 --> 00:39:12,094
I don't know. What if it lets me

1137
00:39:12,094 --> 00:39:14,035
down? What if he lets me down? Mhmm.

1138
00:39:14,210 --> 00:39:15,809
And so it was scary, but but being

1139
00:39:15,809 --> 00:39:17,029
able to jump into

1140
00:39:17,329 --> 00:39:17,829
that

1141
00:39:18,130 --> 00:39:19,509
has just changed things

1142
00:39:19,809 --> 00:39:20,309
immensely.

1143
00:39:21,089 --> 00:39:22,309
Some of the things that

1144
00:39:22,690 --> 00:39:26,549
that I changed were just, man, like,

1145
00:39:26,964 --> 00:39:28,264
I think just letting

1146
00:39:28,804 --> 00:39:31,284
God love all of me. Mhmm. Even the

1147
00:39:31,284 --> 00:39:32,905
parts that felt broken

1148
00:39:33,284 --> 00:39:35,764
was important for me. Something that helped me

1149
00:39:35,764 --> 00:39:38,644
with that, actually, that I mean, I was

1150
00:39:38,644 --> 00:39:42,099
worship music Mhmm. That just, like, fills your

1151
00:39:42,099 --> 00:39:44,579
soul with how God feels about you. Yeah.

1152
00:39:44,579 --> 00:39:47,139
And that that, you know, I started to

1153
00:39:47,139 --> 00:39:50,179
really dive into studying grace and wanting to

1154
00:39:50,179 --> 00:39:53,300
understand more about who Jesus Christ is on

1155
00:39:53,300 --> 00:39:56,255
that front. I think I love I feel

1156
00:39:56,255 --> 00:39:58,094
over the the last four or five years,

1157
00:39:58,094 --> 00:40:00,335
we've heard that a lot more from the

1158
00:40:00,335 --> 00:40:03,694
general church Mhmm. Just helping us understand grace

1159
00:40:03,694 --> 00:40:06,174
better and understanding how much we need it.

1160
00:40:06,174 --> 00:40:07,694
But just allowing that to be a part

1161
00:40:07,694 --> 00:40:08,835
of my my journey

1162
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:12,880
was amazing. You know? And just kinda testing

1163
00:40:13,420 --> 00:40:14,859
God, not in

1164
00:40:15,179 --> 00:40:17,579
that that might sound sound bad, but testing

1165
00:40:17,579 --> 00:40:19,659
him in that, hey. Like, God, I feel

1166
00:40:19,659 --> 00:40:21,980
like you're inviting me to take a big

1167
00:40:21,980 --> 00:40:24,664
jump right here, and, like, I'm terrified.

1168
00:40:25,045 --> 00:40:26,105
Mhmm. I'm scared.

1169
00:40:26,644 --> 00:40:28,265
Right? My wife and I

1170
00:40:28,644 --> 00:40:31,605
felt that as we approached foster care Mhmm.

1171
00:40:31,844 --> 00:40:33,945
You know, a few years ago. It's like

1172
00:40:34,164 --> 00:40:36,085
felt like God was inviting us into foster

1173
00:40:36,085 --> 00:40:36,585
care,

1174
00:40:36,900 --> 00:40:39,219
and that journey we already had four kids.

1175
00:40:39,219 --> 00:40:41,460
Like, our our house is nuts, man. Like,

1176
00:40:41,460 --> 00:40:41,699
it's

1177
00:40:42,420 --> 00:40:44,179
on the outside, that that doesn't make a

1178
00:40:44,179 --> 00:40:46,359
lot of sense. But being able to

1179
00:40:46,739 --> 00:40:49,239
just being able to say, hey, God. Like,

1180
00:40:49,380 --> 00:40:51,079
we're scared to death.

1181
00:40:51,454 --> 00:40:53,074
Will you catch us if we jump here?

1182
00:40:53,135 --> 00:40:53,934
Mhmm. And

1183
00:40:54,574 --> 00:40:56,414
And you're still alive. And him and him

1184
00:40:56,414 --> 00:40:56,914
responding,

1185
00:40:57,454 --> 00:40:59,695
you'll never know unless you jump. Yeah. You

1186
00:40:59,695 --> 00:41:02,094
know? Like like, that's the thing is, like,

1187
00:41:02,094 --> 00:41:03,695
I really have come to know that that

1188
00:41:03,695 --> 00:41:04,894
god's not going to

1189
00:41:05,454 --> 00:41:06,355
he's not gonna

1190
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,780
he's not gonna always give us the reassurance

1191
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:10,119
that we want because he wants to see

1192
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:12,360
us jump. He doesn't wanna direct every little

1193
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,200
thing. He wants to see us jump, and

1194
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,200
then he wants to show us how he

1195
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,280
can show up for us. Mhmm. And the

1196
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:19,720
way that he showed up for my family

1197
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:22,065
is, you know, a beautiful four year old

1198
00:41:22,065 --> 00:41:23,905
boy that we have now that, you know,

1199
00:41:23,905 --> 00:41:26,065
is part of our family. And so now

1200
00:41:26,065 --> 00:41:27,925
we have five crazy kids, and

1201
00:41:28,224 --> 00:41:30,324
and has it been super hard?

1202
00:41:30,625 --> 00:41:32,545
Yeah. Is there a reason that it was

1203
00:41:32,545 --> 00:41:35,264
super scary? Yeah. And now I know more

1204
00:41:35,264 --> 00:41:38,309
about God. And so that continues to change

1205
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:40,569
my relationship with him and change the conversations

1206
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:41,929
that I'm having with him.

1207
00:41:42,469 --> 00:41:42,969
And

1208
00:41:43,269 --> 00:41:45,269
just so many things like that, jumping, you

1209
00:41:45,269 --> 00:41:47,210
know, jumping from seminary to therapy,

1210
00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:49,605
those are hard things to just trust and

1211
00:41:49,605 --> 00:41:51,525
and fall into God with. And that's you

1212
00:41:51,525 --> 00:41:53,684
know, I I think I wanna help people

1213
00:41:53,684 --> 00:41:56,485
experience that. Yeah. To change it from a

1214
00:41:56,485 --> 00:41:58,105
relationship of transaction,

1215
00:41:58,885 --> 00:42:00,905
a relationship that's driven by shame,

1216
00:42:01,670 --> 00:42:03,130
to something that

1217
00:42:03,590 --> 00:42:05,050
actually allows for

1218
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:08,329
relationship with with God and Jesus Christ. And

1219
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:10,950
as we experience that relationship with God and

1220
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:13,190
Jesus Christ, the healing that can come from

1221
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:15,349
that as we see who and how they

1222
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:18,065
really are. Yeah. So what I'm hearing is,

1223
00:42:18,204 --> 00:42:20,385
like, there's sort of this moment

1224
00:42:20,844 --> 00:42:21,344
where

1225
00:42:21,644 --> 00:42:23,244
we have to step into a space of

1226
00:42:23,244 --> 00:42:23,744
surrender

1227
00:42:24,284 --> 00:42:26,045
and just say, oh, it turns out I

1228
00:42:26,045 --> 00:42:28,224
can't control it all with my habits and

1229
00:42:28,445 --> 00:42:29,664
routines and behaviors.

1230
00:42:30,284 --> 00:42:32,390
Though, you know, at the core, those things

1231
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:33,530
are beautiful

1232
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:36,470
things. And that pivot point into surrender is

1233
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:38,869
often just sort of sitting with this concept

1234
00:42:38,869 --> 00:42:41,289
of how do I feel? Like, what emotions

1235
00:42:41,590 --> 00:42:44,410
are common in my life experience and why?

1236
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:46,170
And often that leads to

1237
00:42:46,635 --> 00:42:48,094
some maybe deeper pain

1238
00:42:48,554 --> 00:42:50,954
or or shame. Right? And that that pivots

1239
00:42:50,954 --> 00:42:53,034
maybe someone into a a place of surrender.

1240
00:42:53,034 --> 00:42:54,875
And it's interesting. This is this been in

1241
00:42:54,875 --> 00:42:56,554
my life experience, and this sounds like it's

1242
00:42:56,554 --> 00:42:58,474
what you're articulating. When you're in this when

1243
00:42:58,474 --> 00:43:00,815
you're in a cadence of surrender, an invitation

1244
00:43:01,034 --> 00:43:04,130
usually comes to the surface. An invitation that

1245
00:43:04,130 --> 00:43:05,829
seems crazy, that seems risky,

1246
00:43:06,210 --> 00:43:07,730
and god wants you to step into that

1247
00:43:07,730 --> 00:43:10,769
because that stimulates that relationship between him and

1248
00:43:10,769 --> 00:43:11,269
you.

1249
00:43:11,650 --> 00:43:13,409
And he's got you in a state of

1250
00:43:13,409 --> 00:43:14,849
surrender, which he has so he has a

1251
00:43:14,849 --> 00:43:15,909
lot to work with.

1252
00:43:16,315 --> 00:43:17,614
And then sanctification

1253
00:43:17,994 --> 00:43:20,474
comes. And it's just and it it's beautiful

1254
00:43:20,474 --> 00:43:22,494
how that that happens. And through that sanctification

1255
00:43:22,554 --> 00:43:25,675
often, healing takes place. And that's really

1256
00:43:25,994 --> 00:43:27,994
I mean, let's hear what we're trying to

1257
00:43:27,994 --> 00:43:30,235
do in mortality is heal and progress and

1258
00:43:30,235 --> 00:43:32,489
become more like him, and that's a crucial

1259
00:43:32,489 --> 00:43:34,730
thing. So I appreciate how you articulated it

1260
00:43:34,730 --> 00:43:35,469
just that

1261
00:43:35,769 --> 00:43:37,690
because we often think, oh, feel your feelings

1262
00:43:37,690 --> 00:43:40,329
okay and, you know, trust god, have faith.

1263
00:43:40,329 --> 00:43:41,230
Okay. But,

1264
00:43:41,690 --> 00:43:43,530
you know, in that order and it sort

1265
00:43:43,530 --> 00:43:44,590
of makes it more,

1266
00:43:45,050 --> 00:43:45,550
pragmatic

1267
00:43:45,849 --> 00:43:48,614
with people that actually do that. Yeah. And

1268
00:43:48,614 --> 00:43:49,914
I I think it

1269
00:43:50,454 --> 00:43:53,035
it can help you just get away from

1270
00:43:53,094 --> 00:43:53,914
the formulaic

1271
00:43:54,934 --> 00:43:56,855
part of it. Right? Right? Like because, man,

1272
00:43:56,855 --> 00:43:57,594
if I'm

1273
00:43:58,055 --> 00:44:00,235
if I'm not getting answers to my prayers,

1274
00:44:00,695 --> 00:44:01,195
again,

1275
00:44:01,579 --> 00:44:03,179
shame comes in and says, hey. Well, just

1276
00:44:03,179 --> 00:44:04,780
because you're doing it wrong. Like, you're, you

1277
00:44:04,780 --> 00:44:07,679
know, you're not worthy or you're broken or

1278
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:08,400
whatever.

1279
00:44:09,099 --> 00:44:11,179
And so you go back to the formulas

1280
00:44:11,179 --> 00:44:13,519
of, okay. Like, I have to make sure

1281
00:44:13,775 --> 00:44:16,335
I'm saying enough prayers of gratitude, and I,

1282
00:44:16,335 --> 00:44:17,775
you know, I have to make sure that

1283
00:44:17,775 --> 00:44:19,535
I'm is there anything that I need to

1284
00:44:19,535 --> 00:44:21,454
tell my bishop about that I haven't repented

1285
00:44:21,454 --> 00:44:23,454
about? Mhmm. You know, and all the all

1286
00:44:23,454 --> 00:44:25,155
the pieces have to be in place.

1287
00:44:25,454 --> 00:44:26,275
And I think,

1288
00:44:26,735 --> 00:44:28,815
like, all those are again, I'm not saying

1289
00:44:28,815 --> 00:44:31,170
that we should throw out all the stuff

1290
00:44:31,170 --> 00:44:33,110
and not do the things. But

1291
00:44:33,489 --> 00:44:35,329
Well, and that's the paradox. Right? Is that

1292
00:44:35,409 --> 00:44:37,170
and I hate to frame it that you

1293
00:44:37,170 --> 00:44:39,250
do the things more than ever in that

1294
00:44:39,250 --> 00:44:41,090
state, but it's you do the things in

1295
00:44:41,090 --> 00:44:42,150
a different place

1296
00:44:42,804 --> 00:44:44,644
because the things are important. The behaviors are

1297
00:44:44,644 --> 00:44:45,144
important,

1298
00:44:45,605 --> 00:44:46,885
but you have to be in kinda that

1299
00:44:46,885 --> 00:44:49,445
right state, right, to do those those things.

1300
00:44:49,445 --> 00:44:51,925
Yeah. Yeah. And when it's driven by, hey.

1301
00:44:51,925 --> 00:44:54,005
You're you're not doing this well enough or

1302
00:44:54,005 --> 00:44:55,844
I would answer your prayer if you were

1303
00:44:55,844 --> 00:44:58,859
different. Like, that's just not how God works.

1304
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,000
Yeah. Like, it just can't be how God

1305
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:01,500
works.

1306
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,300
I've come to settle in a place where

1307
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,920
when I'm not receiving answers to prayers, it's

1308
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,280
likely because God just loves me and trusts

1309
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,434
me and that he's he's ready for for

1310
00:45:13,434 --> 00:45:13,934
whatever

1311
00:45:14,635 --> 00:45:16,574
that journey looks like. And so

1312
00:45:16,875 --> 00:45:19,194
I feel like if we change our prayers

1313
00:45:19,194 --> 00:45:21,194
even a little bit, we're able to come

1314
00:45:21,194 --> 00:45:22,394
at them in a in a way where,

1315
00:45:22,394 --> 00:45:24,655
like, God almost has to answer our prayers

1316
00:45:25,194 --> 00:45:27,489
in that I'm going from I'll just use

1317
00:45:27,489 --> 00:45:29,349
this example because it's one that I experienced

1318
00:45:29,730 --> 00:45:32,289
a hundred times or more over the last

1319
00:45:32,289 --> 00:45:33,989
seven years of of teaching seminary.

1320
00:45:34,609 --> 00:45:36,529
Seniors would come up to me as they're

1321
00:45:36,529 --> 00:45:37,969
getting close to the end of their senior

1322
00:45:37,969 --> 00:45:40,464
year, you know, about this time in the

1323
00:45:40,464 --> 00:45:42,385
year where they're trying to figure out college

1324
00:45:42,385 --> 00:45:44,224
and missions and all the next things, and

1325
00:45:44,224 --> 00:45:46,144
they go, man, like, I'm I have two

1326
00:45:46,144 --> 00:45:48,545
or three options for college, and god's not

1327
00:45:48,545 --> 00:45:49,045
answering.

1328
00:45:49,505 --> 00:45:50,944
He's not telling me things. So what am

1329
00:45:50,944 --> 00:45:51,925
I doing wrong?

1330
00:45:52,385 --> 00:45:53,364
I'm like, well,

1331
00:45:53,730 --> 00:45:55,730
probably nothing. Like, he asked you to ask

1332
00:45:55,730 --> 00:45:57,969
him, and you're asking him, so you're not

1333
00:45:57,969 --> 00:46:00,610
doing anything wrong. What if he just wants

1334
00:46:00,610 --> 00:46:02,230
you to choose? And if you

1335
00:46:02,530 --> 00:46:04,710
instead make that choice and then

1336
00:46:05,010 --> 00:46:07,510
just invite him into that choice,

1337
00:46:07,969 --> 00:46:09,190
it's different. Right?

1338
00:46:09,525 --> 00:46:11,924
Your prayer changes from tell me what college

1339
00:46:11,924 --> 00:46:13,605
to go to, tell me what university to

1340
00:46:13,605 --> 00:46:14,804
go to, tell me whether I need to

1341
00:46:14,804 --> 00:46:16,184
go on a mission to,

1342
00:46:16,484 --> 00:46:18,505
god, this is this is what I'm feeling.

1343
00:46:18,724 --> 00:46:20,405
Again, going back to our feelings. This is

1344
00:46:20,405 --> 00:46:21,944
what I'm feeling right now.

1345
00:46:22,349 --> 00:46:24,030
This is the choice that that's leading me

1346
00:46:24,030 --> 00:46:24,530
to.

1347
00:46:24,829 --> 00:46:26,590
Will you just walk this with me? Mhmm.

1348
00:46:26,590 --> 00:46:29,070
Will you keep me safe? Will you help

1349
00:46:29,070 --> 00:46:30,930
me meet the people I need to meet?

1350
00:46:31,070 --> 00:46:32,829
Will you help me be the person that

1351
00:46:32,829 --> 00:46:35,385
I wanna be? And, like, is god ever

1352
00:46:35,385 --> 00:46:37,385
gonna not answer that prayer? Like like, he's

1353
00:46:37,465 --> 00:46:39,224
Yeah. He's gonna answer that prayer, like, a

1354
00:46:39,224 --> 00:46:40,985
% of the time. I'm pretty confident in

1355
00:46:40,985 --> 00:46:43,465
saying that, which, you know, we're not a

1356
00:46:43,465 --> 00:46:45,704
% confident in god's answers to prayers a

1357
00:46:45,704 --> 00:46:47,545
lot. But if we can change it, I

1358
00:46:47,545 --> 00:46:49,324
think we can be way more confident

1359
00:46:49,849 --> 00:46:52,170
in his answers to prayers because we're we're

1360
00:46:52,170 --> 00:46:53,550
just inviting him to be

1361
00:46:53,929 --> 00:46:56,090
a part of our story. All the pieces

1362
00:46:56,250 --> 00:46:57,789
all the parts of our story,

1363
00:46:58,090 --> 00:46:59,929
we're inviting him in and and letting him

1364
00:46:59,929 --> 00:47:02,409
be Yeah. That's really helpful, that example. Are

1365
00:47:02,409 --> 00:47:04,170
there any other touch points with that that

1366
00:47:04,170 --> 00:47:06,704
youth experience or as we discuss these principles

1367
00:47:06,704 --> 00:47:08,565
that would be with worth mentioning? Or

1368
00:47:09,184 --> 00:47:11,764
Again, I think just inviting as much authenticity

1369
00:47:11,824 --> 00:47:13,744
as we can into that relationship with him.

1370
00:47:13,744 --> 00:47:16,625
And I think as whether you are listening

1371
00:47:16,625 --> 00:47:18,704
to this and you're you're a parent, you're

1372
00:47:18,704 --> 00:47:19,444
a leader,

1373
00:47:19,984 --> 00:47:21,125
whoever you are,

1374
00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:24,300
I think modeling that authenticity is super important.

1375
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:25,260
Mhmm.

1376
00:47:25,559 --> 00:47:27,260
Something that that we, like,

1377
00:47:27,559 --> 00:47:29,880
we try to show our kids when we're

1378
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,039
in the struggle and especially when we're in

1379
00:47:32,039 --> 00:47:33,800
the struggle with God. And, like, this is

1380
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:34,920
what it looks like, and this is what

1381
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,454
it sounds like, and this is what it

1382
00:47:36,454 --> 00:47:38,554
feels like. It feels heavy and it feels,

1383
00:47:38,775 --> 00:47:41,255
like, wrestling. And and so, man, when we

1384
00:47:41,255 --> 00:47:43,655
have hard conversations or hard things that we're

1385
00:47:43,655 --> 00:47:45,594
approaching as a family, like,

1386
00:47:46,054 --> 00:47:48,775
we don't do that behind closed doors. You

1387
00:47:48,775 --> 00:47:50,454
know? I I want my kids to see

1388
00:47:50,454 --> 00:47:53,339
that we're allowed to cry to God and

1389
00:47:53,500 --> 00:47:55,760
Yeah. Let them know how it feels. And

1390
00:47:56,219 --> 00:47:58,539
we're allowed to be scared about the next

1391
00:47:58,539 --> 00:47:59,679
steps and

1392
00:47:59,980 --> 00:48:02,400
be terrified of them as I've you know,

1393
00:48:02,460 --> 00:48:04,484
a career change when you have five kids

1394
00:48:04,484 --> 00:48:07,125
is scary. Mhmm. And my kids know every

1395
00:48:07,125 --> 00:48:08,724
step of the way what that's been like.

1396
00:48:08,724 --> 00:48:11,764
Mhmm. You know? As I've made that transition

1397
00:48:11,764 --> 00:48:13,684
and I've I've been, you know, meeting with

1398
00:48:13,684 --> 00:48:14,964
more and more people, I go home and

1399
00:48:14,964 --> 00:48:16,565
my twelve year old asks me almost every

1400
00:48:16,565 --> 00:48:18,320
day, how many clients did you see today,

1401
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,000
dad? How many people are you helping? And,

1402
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,860
you know, it went it's gone from

1403
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:23,840
two or three at the beginning of the

1404
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,559
journey to, you know, six or seven every

1405
00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:28,320
day, and and it's so cool. And and

1406
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,800
he he lights up and is is excited.

1407
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:32,295
Like, you know, sometimes

1408
00:48:32,594 --> 00:48:34,114
at the beginning of that journey, I'd get

1409
00:48:34,114 --> 00:48:35,554
home and he'd say, how many people did

1410
00:48:35,554 --> 00:48:37,635
you see? And I'm, hey. Just just one

1411
00:48:37,635 --> 00:48:40,355
today, bud. And it's hard. And I'm scared.

1412
00:48:40,355 --> 00:48:42,114
I'm scared, you know Yeah. That this isn't

1413
00:48:42,114 --> 00:48:43,655
gonna work. And

1414
00:48:44,090 --> 00:48:45,769
I hate that you're asking me this question

1415
00:48:45,769 --> 00:48:46,590
every day,

1416
00:48:47,530 --> 00:48:48,890
but I'm gonna show up in that because

1417
00:48:48,890 --> 00:48:50,250
I want you to see that Yeah. That

1418
00:48:50,250 --> 00:48:52,170
this is hard and scary, and and I'm

1419
00:48:52,170 --> 00:48:54,570
just I'm real. Like Yeah. Like, you're real.

1420
00:48:54,570 --> 00:48:57,130
And, like, that way when you have your

1421
00:48:57,130 --> 00:48:57,630
thing

1422
00:48:58,074 --> 00:48:59,934
that you're walking into that's scary,

1423
00:49:00,474 --> 00:49:01,675
you feel like you can come to me

1424
00:49:01,675 --> 00:49:03,434
about it, and I'm gonna let you be

1425
00:49:03,434 --> 00:49:05,434
real with it. And and we can involve

1426
00:49:05,434 --> 00:49:08,715
God in the authenticity of it. Yeah. Yeah.

1427
00:49:08,715 --> 00:49:10,474
I appreciate that. And I think of, like,

1428
00:49:10,474 --> 00:49:12,949
you hear certain people describe their childhood of,

1429
00:49:12,949 --> 00:49:14,710
like, we were poor, but I never knew

1430
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:16,869
I was poor, which, obviously, there's some good

1431
00:49:16,869 --> 00:49:18,789
things of that of, you know, there's more

1432
00:49:18,789 --> 00:49:21,589
than money that makes happiness. And when somebody

1433
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:23,589
raises a child and then they don't know

1434
00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:24,869
they're poor, but they're still happy, that's a

1435
00:49:24,869 --> 00:49:26,569
beautiful thing. But at the same time,

1436
00:49:26,894 --> 00:49:27,394
sometimes

1437
00:49:27,855 --> 00:49:30,735
we we don't want our children to be

1438
00:49:30,735 --> 00:49:33,315
aware of the struggles of mortality.

1439
00:49:33,855 --> 00:49:35,554
And, of course, in all things, there's

1440
00:49:36,255 --> 00:49:38,494
extremes that are unhealthy to take them to.

1441
00:49:38,494 --> 00:49:41,454
But to invite the your whole family into

1442
00:49:41,454 --> 00:49:42,515
something like that,

1443
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:44,710
that goes a long way when they then

1444
00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:47,029
what they it's less you know, when they

1445
00:49:47,029 --> 00:49:49,029
they grow up and suddenly they're facing similar

1446
00:49:49,029 --> 00:49:50,469
problems, they don't think, oh, I think I

1447
00:49:50,469 --> 00:49:52,069
broke it. Like, mom and dad didn't have

1448
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:54,549
this problem or something. You know? Yeah. And

1449
00:49:54,549 --> 00:49:56,474
it really and and just help them witness

1450
00:49:56,474 --> 00:49:57,755
the wrestle and then be a part of

1451
00:49:57,755 --> 00:49:59,994
the wrestle and and witness the miracles. And

1452
00:49:59,994 --> 00:50:01,675
then the miracles are more obvious with that

1453
00:50:01,675 --> 00:50:04,315
contrast. You know? So And, honestly, that's what

1454
00:50:04,315 --> 00:50:06,155
a lot of the college age kids that

1455
00:50:06,155 --> 00:50:07,994
I meet with are wrestling with. They're, like,

1456
00:50:07,994 --> 00:50:09,515
20 years old, and they're like, why don't

1457
00:50:09,515 --> 00:50:12,075
I have everything figured out? Yeah. And I'm

1458
00:50:12,075 --> 00:50:13,510
like, you're 20.

1459
00:50:13,809 --> 00:50:14,389
Like like,

1460
00:50:14,849 --> 00:50:16,869
you need space for this. Like like, I'm

1461
00:50:17,089 --> 00:50:17,589
I'm

1462
00:50:17,969 --> 00:50:19,969
in the midst of a career change at

1463
00:50:19,969 --> 00:50:20,710
37.

1464
00:50:20,769 --> 00:50:22,210
Like, it's okay to not have it all

1465
00:50:22,210 --> 00:50:23,349
figured out at 20.

1466
00:50:23,730 --> 00:50:26,449
And because they've never seen the wrestle, they've

1467
00:50:26,449 --> 00:50:27,510
never seen the struggle,

1468
00:50:28,125 --> 00:50:30,125
they just figure, hey. My parents have had

1469
00:50:30,125 --> 00:50:31,485
it all figured out my whole life. And

1470
00:50:31,485 --> 00:50:33,105
so before I can

1471
00:50:33,405 --> 00:50:35,405
jump into a major or jump into a

1472
00:50:35,405 --> 00:50:37,344
career or jump into a relationship

1473
00:50:37,724 --> 00:50:38,864
or have children,

1474
00:50:39,164 --> 00:50:41,739
I have to have everything figured out where

1475
00:50:41,739 --> 00:50:43,119
I I think, man, like,

1476
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:45,039
again, the more authenticity

1477
00:50:45,420 --> 00:50:47,820
we invite into that, the more we're inviting

1478
00:50:47,820 --> 00:50:49,260
shame to not be a part of that.

1479
00:50:49,260 --> 00:50:51,660
Yeah. Yeah. That's really inviting that to leave.

1480
00:50:51,660 --> 00:50:52,860
And I think, you know, in a going

1481
00:50:52,860 --> 00:50:54,860
back to that, like, a youth church setting

1482
00:50:54,860 --> 00:50:57,315
of having the leader again, this isn't about,

1483
00:50:57,315 --> 00:50:59,795
like, just bearing all your dirty laundry and

1484
00:50:59,795 --> 00:51:02,275
all the ugly dynamics, but for a youth

1485
00:51:02,275 --> 00:51:03,954
leader to say something, you know, the adult

1486
00:51:03,954 --> 00:51:04,994
youth leader, you know, I'm

1487
00:51:05,635 --> 00:51:06,534
my son's

1488
00:51:06,835 --> 00:51:09,010
away at college. I'm this weekend, I'm just

1489
00:51:09,010 --> 00:51:10,849
feeling really nervous about him and, you know,

1490
00:51:10,849 --> 00:51:12,289
he's not in the church or, you know,

1491
00:51:12,289 --> 00:51:14,050
I don't I pray for him, but I

1492
00:51:14,050 --> 00:51:15,809
just constantly worry that I'm gonna get that

1493
00:51:15,809 --> 00:51:17,570
phone call or, you know and so if

1494
00:51:17,570 --> 00:51:18,849
you if you all just pray for me,

1495
00:51:18,849 --> 00:51:20,289
I'm just sort of sitting in that. I'm

1496
00:51:20,289 --> 00:51:22,289
feeling that. Right? And that's okay. You know?

1497
00:51:22,289 --> 00:51:25,105
Yeah. Just feel it. Yeah. Totally okay. Right?

1498
00:51:25,105 --> 00:51:25,664
Like, there's

1499
00:51:26,304 --> 00:51:28,625
and, man, like, if we're not doing this

1500
00:51:28,625 --> 00:51:30,404
whole gospel thing for that,

1501
00:51:30,864 --> 00:51:33,284
then what are we doing it for? Yeah.

1502
00:51:33,424 --> 00:51:35,505
Right? Like like, that's where we need God

1503
00:51:35,505 --> 00:51:36,944
to show up. That's when we need God

1504
00:51:36,944 --> 00:51:39,160
to show up, and that's that's his whole

1505
00:51:39,300 --> 00:51:41,460
his whole thing. Like and so if we're

1506
00:51:41,460 --> 00:51:43,220
gonna pretend that we don't need it and

1507
00:51:43,220 --> 00:51:45,300
just to, you know like, we're kind of

1508
00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:46,660
inviting him not to be a part of

1509
00:51:46,660 --> 00:51:49,300
it Mhmm. Which, man, like, that's that's not

1510
00:51:49,300 --> 00:51:50,980
how I wanna that's not how I wanna

1511
00:51:50,980 --> 00:51:53,054
walk that thing Yeah. For sure. If somebody

1512
00:51:53,054 --> 00:51:53,554
wants

1513
00:51:54,255 --> 00:51:56,014
to learn more about you and and check

1514
00:51:56,014 --> 00:51:57,614
out what what you do and how you

1515
00:51:57,614 --> 00:51:59,554
help youth, where did you send them?

1516
00:51:59,855 --> 00:52:00,355
Yeah.

1517
00:52:00,815 --> 00:52:01,954
So I work

1518
00:52:02,255 --> 00:52:05,474
in Sandy, Utah at clinic called Accepted.

1519
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,400
So you can find me there. The easiest

1520
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:09,460
way to reach me

1521
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,739
would be bradon jensen dot com.

1522
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:14,400
We can probably Yeah. We'll link you. Get

1523
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:15,920
you a link and and have you figure

1524
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:17,840
it out. You can like, my phone number

1525
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,760
is there. My contact info is there. Like,

1526
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,565
you can get me there. You're welcome to

1527
00:52:21,565 --> 00:52:23,644
follow me on on Instagram. Yeah. You're active

1528
00:52:23,644 --> 00:52:25,664
on Instagram. I try to be I I

1529
00:52:25,965 --> 00:52:28,204
I go in waves, of being active on

1530
00:52:28,204 --> 00:52:28,704
Instagram,

1531
00:52:29,485 --> 00:52:29,885
but,

1532
00:52:30,285 --> 00:52:31,804
I try to be there and I I'd

1533
00:52:31,804 --> 00:52:33,164
love for you to follow me and and

1534
00:52:33,164 --> 00:52:34,684
I I share as as much as I

1535
00:52:34,684 --> 00:52:35,885
can there, but I also have a lot

1536
00:52:35,885 --> 00:52:37,380
of people reach out to me through Instagram

1537
00:52:37,380 --> 00:52:39,719
and say, hey. Like, this sounds awesome.

1538
00:52:40,179 --> 00:52:41,719
Please. I want more.

1539
00:52:42,019 --> 00:52:43,699
So you're welcome to reach out to me

1540
00:52:43,699 --> 00:52:45,539
there as well, and that that'd be great.

1541
00:52:45,539 --> 00:52:46,980
Yeah. That's how you can reach me. Well,

1542
00:52:46,980 --> 00:52:48,659
Brandon, this has been awesome. Any other point

1543
00:52:48,659 --> 00:52:50,359
principles, concept, story?

1544
00:52:51,074 --> 00:52:53,554
I feel pretty good about it. I think

1545
00:52:53,554 --> 00:52:55,875
just one of the I was giving a

1546
00:52:55,875 --> 00:52:56,375
talk

1547
00:52:56,835 --> 00:52:59,234
probably last year in my ward and just

1548
00:52:59,234 --> 00:53:00,594
had a thought come to me that's been

1549
00:53:00,594 --> 00:53:02,034
one of the my favorite things that I've

1550
00:53:02,034 --> 00:53:04,755
just kinda clung onto to help me continue

1551
00:53:04,755 --> 00:53:07,109
forward in this and not fall back into

1552
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:10,170
those, you know, the shame inviting and then

1553
00:53:10,549 --> 00:53:11,210
the checkbox

1554
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:12,329
checking

1555
00:53:12,789 --> 00:53:14,029
pattern. And that's

1556
00:53:14,469 --> 00:53:16,630
man, I feel like 95%

1557
00:53:16,630 --> 00:53:18,630
of what I know about heavenly father and

1558
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:19,529
Jesus Christ,

1559
00:53:19,944 --> 00:53:21,625
I've learned in the last five years of

1560
00:53:21,625 --> 00:53:22,284
my life.

1561
00:53:23,625 --> 00:53:25,625
And before, that would maybe make me really

1562
00:53:25,625 --> 00:53:27,144
discouraged. Like, what on earth am I doing

1563
00:53:27,144 --> 00:53:28,824
for the first thirty something years of my

1564
00:53:28,824 --> 00:53:31,484
life where I I'm not learning about him?

1565
00:53:31,625 --> 00:53:33,065
But, really, that just gives me a ton

1566
00:53:33,065 --> 00:53:35,644
of hope because if I project that forward,

1567
00:53:36,159 --> 00:53:36,659
hopefully,

1568
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:38,420
in five years from now,

1569
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,500
what I know now about

1570
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,840
God is only 5% of what I know

1571
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:45,519
in five years, you know. And I and

1572
00:53:45,519 --> 00:53:47,059
I just want to continue to

1573
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,500
experience him and his fullness and his,

1574
00:53:50,875 --> 00:53:52,555
you know, how he shows up and and

1575
00:53:52,555 --> 00:53:54,494
who he is and how he is. Like,

1576
00:53:54,555 --> 00:53:55,775
I wanna just continue

1577
00:53:56,075 --> 00:53:58,175
peeling back all the layers of that relationship

1578
00:53:58,954 --> 00:54:00,875
and allowing that to change me as I

1579
00:54:00,875 --> 00:54:02,894
go. And so I'm okay

1580
00:54:03,389 --> 00:54:05,789
that 95% of what I've learned about God

1581
00:54:05,789 --> 00:54:07,549
has happened in the last five years because

1582
00:54:07,549 --> 00:54:08,989
that means in the next five years, I

1583
00:54:08,989 --> 00:54:10,769
get to repeat that and do it again.

1584
00:54:17,775 --> 00:54:20,335
That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints

1585
00:54:20,335 --> 00:54:22,255
podcast. Hey. Listen. Would you do me a

1586
00:54:22,255 --> 00:54:24,655
favor? You know, everybody's got that friend who

1587
00:54:24,655 --> 00:54:27,135
listens to a ton of podcasts, and maybe

1588
00:54:27,135 --> 00:54:29,375
they aren't aware of Leading Saints. So would

1589
00:54:29,375 --> 00:54:31,390
you mind taking the link of this episode

1590
00:54:31,390 --> 00:54:33,789
or another episode of Leading Saints and just

1591
00:54:33,789 --> 00:54:35,710
texting it to that friend? You know who

1592
00:54:35,710 --> 00:54:38,110
I'm talking about, the friend who always listens

1593
00:54:38,110 --> 00:54:39,949
to podcasts and is always telling you about

1594
00:54:39,949 --> 00:54:41,949
different podcasts. Well, it's your turn to tell

1595
00:54:41,949 --> 00:54:43,755
that friend about Leading Saints.

1596
00:54:44,154 --> 00:54:45,914
So share it. We'd also love to hear

1597
00:54:45,914 --> 00:54:47,755
from you. If you have any perspective or

1598
00:54:47,755 --> 00:54:49,514
thought on this episode, you can go to

1599
00:54:49,514 --> 00:54:50,474
leadingsaints.org

1600
00:54:50,474 --> 00:54:53,134
and actually leave a comment on the, episode

1601
00:54:53,194 --> 00:54:55,355
page, or reach out to us at leading

1602
00:54:55,355 --> 00:54:56,760
saints dot org slash contact.

1603
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,039
Remember, the Jody Moore presentation about youth and

1604
00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:02,280
mental health is waiting for you at leading

1605
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:03,820
saints dot org slash fourteen.

1606
00:55:13,525 --> 00:55:16,085
It came as a result of the position

1607
00:55:16,085 --> 00:55:19,144
of leadership which was imposed upon us

1608
00:55:19,445 --> 00:55:22,344
by the God of heaven who brought forth

1609
00:55:22,405 --> 00:55:23,224
a restoration

1610
00:55:23,525 --> 00:55:25,864
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

1611
00:55:26,559 --> 00:55:27,539
When the declaration

1612
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,260
was made concerning the only

1613
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,359
true and living Church upon the face of

1614
00:55:33,359 --> 00:55:34,019
the earth,

1615
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:37,299
we were immediately put in a position of

1616
00:55:37,359 --> 00:55:37,859
loneliness,

1617
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:39,779
the loneliness of leadership

1618
00:55:40,525 --> 00:55:43,425
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,

1619
00:55:44,204 --> 00:55:46,684
and to which we must face up with

1620
00:55:46,684 --> 00:55:48,144
boldness and courage

1621
00:55:48,684 --> 00:55:49,505
and ability.