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favorite interviews.
So my name is Kurt Frankem and I
am the founder and executive director of Leading
Saints and obviously the host of the Leading
Saints podcast. Now I started Leading Saints back
in 02/2010. It was just a hobby blog,
and it grew from there. By the time,
02/2014
came around, we started the podcast, and that's
really when it got some,
traction and took off, 02/2016.
We became a five zero one c three
nonprofit organization, and we've been growing ever since.
And now I get the opportunity
of interviewing and talking with remarkable people all
over the world. Now this is a segment
we do on the Leading Saints podcast called
How I Lead, and we reach out to
everyday leaders. They're not experts, gurus, authors, PhDs.
They're just everyday leaders who've been asked to
serve in a specific leadership calling, and we
simply ask them, how is it that you
lead? And they go through some remarkable principles
that should be in a book, that should
be behind a PhD.
They're usually that good, and, we just talk
about, sharing what the other guy is doing.
And I remember being a leader just simply
wanting to know, k. I know what I'm
trying to do, but what's the other guy
doing? What's working for him? And so that's
why every Wednesday or so, we publish these
how I lead segments
to share.
In this how I lead interview, we're headed
to Michigan to talk with Adam Broderick,
and
you're gonna love this. Okay? Send this to
every elders quorum president you know, so many
nuggets here. We begin our conversation with just
Adam unpacks this really interesting framing
of
of the type of man who comes to
Elder's Quorum and the way they think and
the way they approach the lesson and the
way they, you know, consume the lesson and
digest the lesson.
And to me, I found it really helpful
to think, wow. Yeah. You know? And how
can we be mindful of these different types
of men that come to elders quorum to
give them a more positive experience? And then
we Adam has such a wonderful approach with
all things,
you know, connection, building connection within the quorum,
unity within the quorum, activities outside the quorum,
and really stimulating this friendship
to the point that, you know, many who
are in this group are just really benefiting
from that experience. So I love these kind
of of,
of how I lead interviews that really give
practical,
tools and approaches and things that really anybody
can do and consider
in their leadership. So,
yeah, send it to that elder score president,
you know, or release study president, really any
leader is gonna benefit from this. So here
we go.
Alright. We're headed to Michigan to talk with
Adam Broderick. How are you, Adam? I'm doing
fantastic.
Good. Now tell people you can even show
your hand. Tell us where you are in
in Michigan because that's what they do there.
Right?
Yeah. This little thing, like, right here.
Right there. So right Central Michigan, Couple Hours
north of Detroit,
kind of out in the middle of Cornfields,
but it's a nice area.
Yeah. And what's your closest temple? How long
does it take? Just, like, hour and forty
five.
Cool. If you're if you're speeding an hour
and a half.
I've never done that, though. Never. Oh, I'm
sure. I'm sure.
And any any plans or is there any
obvious location if president Nelson announced another temple?
Or
Well, there's no there's the temple going in
Grand Rapids. That is also two hours away.
People have talked about here in Midland, we've
got the perfect spot for it. So if
anyone's listening who can make these decisions, like,
right next to our stake center, there's definitely
a place that you could put a temple.
So Alright. Just saying.
We'll we'll we'll I'll be listening a little
closer in the next general conference. So and
we'll we'll cheer for you if, if it
happens. So very cool. And and and what
do you do there in in Michigan?
So I am a I work in the
building products or building manufacturing industry. I make
things to weatherproof,
air insulate,
waterproof
houses. Tyvek is a product name you may
have heard. It's a white paper that goes
on inside of houses and Uh-huh. Keeps them
dry and and, airtight.
Styrofoam, another product you've probably heard of. The
blue boards that go on the outside of
them to keep them warm. So that kind
of stuff. Oh, great. That that's awesome. One
of those many products someone's gotta do, but
we just take for granted. Right? So
that's awesome.
Now you're you've currently been serving as Elders
Quorum president for a few years. Is there,
like, any any story behind being called as
Elders Quorum president?
Sure. So I've been,
serving for just over three years.
And by the time this podcast comes out,
I will probably be in a different calling,
meet with my stake president later this week.
And,
so so this is kinda wrapping up for
me. So I it's been a good experience
to think back.
Started
in a time when we're sort of coming
out of COVID. So Mhmm. There'd been sort
of the way that we did things in
COVID, and it was it was a good
time to transition and become,
I was current president and started to think
about things to say, okay. We're not COVID
anymore.
What
do we need to do differently? How do
we need to approach this and kind of
not go back to the way we were
before COVID, but sort of move forward in
a really productive and positive way
from the sort of lockdown
barely functioning
organization that existed before that. Yeah.
Did you feel like it was
a tough tough go with just getting people
reintegrated into
the the typical
schedule and coming to church and core meeting
every other week?
Sure. The
just getting back, no, that wasn't hard, but
there was just not a lot happening. Very
little energy in the quorum, very little connectivity,
you know, no real activities happening.
So just kind of it felt very,
static.
Dead probably isn't the right way. It's probably
too strong, but, yeah, just just not a
lot of energy. And so Mhmm. As we
came in
and, you know, I gathered a great group
of guys in the Ellis Bourne presidency, and
we're like, okay. Like, how do we restart
this? How do we reinvigorate
and and create connection, create value,
create an experience where people really want to
come back and experience
being part of that community.
Yeah. That's awesome. And anything, like, as far
as demographics or how your words laid out
that would be helpful to just understand the
context of where you're leading? Sure.
It's a centralized
kind of core in the city with most
of the people in our quorum, and then
that spreads out
to upwards of, say, forty five minutes away
to sort of the farthest reaches
of of the unit.
Most people live in sort of the core
within ten minutes of church.
Broad range, many people are professionals working at
Dow Chemical, DuPont Chemical,
or,
some of the subsidiaries that are based here.
But in terms of age,
we range from just sent a a young
man on a mission,
just just leaving on right now up through,
you know,
90 years old and everywhere in between.
Yeah. And, do you how many typically show
up in a core meeting?
It's typically
15 to 20.
Okay. Is our our average size. And where
do you meet in the church?
That's a good question, and it's interesting. We,
it has not been ideal. We've bounced back
and forth between
the sacrament meeting choir seats and the high
council room,
kinda based on who's there and whatnot. I
having a more
stable place to meet probably would be helpful.
And I think sometimes the guys are like,
okay. Where are we meeting today?
But it it mixes things up.
The different places have different pluses and minuses.
Yeah.
Anything as far as in the beginning of
your this experience, like, being called and just
you know, you mentioned COVID and just sort
of that the awkwardness that was there. But
anything else as far as that
the processes you went through, things you tried
that didn't work or worked, or how did
you get started in in the call? No.
And I think, my experience has really been,
like, an evolution over the three years. I
I've learned a ton through the process, and
I really appreciate
that I've had this opportunity to serve in
the calling and see
change happen. So if nothing else, I don't
think anything I'm gonna say today is, like,
oh, they're worldly or, you know, truly revolutionary,
but it has been
evolutionary
over time, kinda slowly going through. So, you
know, just just to kinda start,
elders quorum when we came in was defined
as,
you know, we walk into a room, say
a prayer,
do some announcements,
do a lesson, say a prayer, and leave.
Right? And Mhmm. And and that was really
all of elders quorum. There was ministering, but
it had kind of fallen apart. Assignments were
lots of dangling ends,
loose, you know, incomplete companionships,
and
really hadn't been updated for some time with
move ins and move outs and and whatnot.
So kind of the first thing we did
when we moved in is, okay, let's get
a functional,
ministering assignment sheet list. So we and that
was actually a really cool experience. What we
did is for our first ministering interview,
rather than,
you know, go in and just say, hey.
How are your family's doing? We basically
said, is ministering working for you?
Do you like your companion? Is that working
for you? How about your families? Do you,
you know, are you connected to your families?
Do you like them? Would you not care
if you switched? Would are there actually some,
interactions that aren't working? Like, yeah. Let's let's
switch it. Let's try something new. And we
did that with everyone. We just kind of
said, where are you at? How is this
working?
And,
and from that, some people said, yes. I
really wanna stay with the families I've got.
The The companionship, it's great. Others were like,
yeah. Things aren't going great. A reset would
be helpful. And taking all that together, I
think we got to a really good kinda
starting point
for ministry. So that was that was, like,
job one,
to get that started. Now we're gonna, I
think, come around to this in the conversation.
I'm not sure we've made a ton of
progress with the quality of ministry. Now I'll
talk about as a presidency what we've done
to do our best. Right? But,
so that was that was job one. And
then job two
was to start
to build and I wanna say unity, but
that's that's a a an abstract word. I
think connection
and just knowing
each other, is really what we wanted to
try and accomplish. How do we get people
just know each other,
better?
And
and and I think that's super important,
and it required us to take time away
from the lesson to do so,
which was a little scary because, you know,
you go to the handbook, and the handbook
says
prayer,
counsel,
meaningful gospel instruction,
and a prayer. Right? That that's the outline
for a a core meeting in the in
the handbook right now.
But what I realized, I think, as a
presidency, we realized is that
meaningful
gospel instruction,
was not really happening.
And that I I I kind of emphasized
that meaningful. You know, what makes it meaningful?
It's that we're having
conversations
that matter, like, that that really and and
and maybe a way to think about this
is,
the conversations up to that point were really
focused on sort of an ideal state,
where you could pick a topic. And I'm
gonna use journal writing throughout because that that's,
like, my quintessential lesson that, and there's someone
out there who's like, but I'm way into
journal writing. I'm not meaning to offend you.
Like, journal writing is great. But,
you know, you get in a lesson, you're
like, journal writing is awesome. You should be
doing it every week.
Here are the blessings that you get from
it. Here's this, like, idealized state of journal
writing.
Go. Right? Go go off and and do
something with that.
And and
as I talked to
people in the quorum
and and thought about myself and my my
own experience with those types of lessons, I
think there's sort of three different
places that you can go with a lesson
like that. Either one,
you're self motivated, you're growth driven, you're like,
I'm all into this. This is great. And
in inside your own head, you're, like, processing
journaling, and you're thinking about, you know, opportunities
for you to grow and and, like, digesting
it all inside your own brain. Right? There
are some people who are gonna be like
that, and they can just you just give
them a topic, and then they're on there.
They're just gonna run with it. Yeah.
But I think that's just a few of
us. And and to be honest, it's probably
more like an elders quorum president, a high
councilor. Like, those people that are, you know,
leadership, they're they're they're growth oriented.
So, yeah, they're gonna come out of those
lessons, and they're like, I am so psyched
to, like, go write my journal today. K?
But
so that that's kind of person one. Person
two
is sitting there thinking, there's nothing new. I've
had seven lessons on journals, and you're not
telling me anything new here. And it and
it hasn't been working for me so far?
And you haven't told me anything that's gonna
help but make it work in the future.
So this is just
I don't know. Until you can tell me
something new,
I'm really not
gonna engage. I'm just bored,
waiting for something to happen.
And I think if if your goal in
lessons is to
share information,
no one's waiting for that. So use an
example for a journal.
No one in your quorum is sitting there
thinking,
man, if only there was, like, a mechanism
that I could mindfully process current events
and,
think about my, you know, my thoughts and
ideas and and problems. And, man, if there's
even a better way that I could document
that
in a way
that would benefit my, like, kids and my
kids' kids, man, if only such a thing
existed. Today, we're gonna talk about journal writing.
Oh, that's it. Right? I mean, no one's
doing that. No one's waiting to learn information
that's gonna tell them how to solve their
problems. They already know the information. So,
if you're just seeing this an ideal space,
a lot of people are just gonna be
bored. Now the third person is actually the
one that kinda scares me the most, and
it's someone who's sitting there
and listening to people talk about how they
write in their journal and how awesome it
is and how excited they are to have
their kids and their kids' kids read it.
And they're thinking,
that's not me.
Like, I have never written in a journal
before. I don't even know how to start.
Like, I don't belong here. Right? These people
that are talking here, like, that's not me.
I don't belong here.
Like, I'm out of here. Right? And that's
what scares me because,
we need those people. They have life experiences.
They're they're different. They're coming from a different
perspective,
and
we don't want to alienate them by just
simply talking about this ideal
space, which is good. We have we probably
ought to start there. But,
where you know, from this ideal, we have
to somehow connect it over
to the reality. Right? The and let me
just
pull up my phone real quick. There's a
cool phrase from the handbook that I like,
where it's talking about the purpose
of Eldest Quorum, and it
says, members of the Eldest Quorum work together
to help accomplish God's work of salvation
and exaltation.
Really cool phrase,
but that phrase involves
people. And as soon as you insert people
into anything, any idea,
it becomes
messy,
nuanced,
nonlinear.
You can't engineer it.
It's complex.
There's just no simple clean way to talk
about it. So the ideal state,
starts to become less helpful
when we're talking about the boots on the
groundwork
of salvation
and exaltation
of people
in all of their their messiness.
So Gotcha.
So yeah. So it's like
somewhere
what we recognize is that in these lessons,
those were were were were planning how we're
interacting in the quorum, we had to move
from
ideal, talking about
why journal writing is awesome, to some real
conversation
that reflects
where people are at.
And and that requires
vulnerability. Right? It's it's it has you have
to talk about kind of the elephant in
the room and
why aren't we writing in journals? What are
the challenges of it? What's the realities
of it? Yeah. So let me make sure
I'm I'm I'm following because I think this
is a really
fascinating
approach and and model to kinda see things
as they really are. Is
it sounds like you're saying in you know,
using journal writing as the example. But in
a quorum setting, we typically talk about the
ideals of whatever topic of it is, whether
it's journaling or, you know, ministering or service
or some gospel principle. Right? We're we're we
present an ideal there, and there's a group
in there. You talk about group one that's
like, that excites them, that motivates them, things.
Oh, I could definitely do more, and I
love how they're where they're going with that.
And then the second group is maybe more
of like well, you know, maybe a little
more indifferent, would you say? Or how would
you describe that second group?
They're they're waiting for it to connect to
reality for them. Right? Okay. I mean, they're
they're looking for more of a, you know,
what does this look like in reality?
Yeah. I I've tried it, and it hasn't
worked,
but no one else seems to be talking
about that. Yeah. And so they may be
obviously, group one is probably
where we get those who are commenting a
lot in a typical elders quorum setting. Group
two, maybe they're, like, step back thinking, well,
I don't I don't really get it. And
Or they're just on their phones because they're
like, yeah, there's nothing new here for me.
I'm just Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this and
then group three is those are being like,
man, enough with the ideals. Like, I just
come here and I feel like these guys
don't have the problems I've got and that
nobody's
really connecting with anything that's important to me.
So
I may not, you know, skip a week
here here and there or kinda just phase
out or, you know, I'm only here because,
you know, my wife has the keys to
the minivan. Right? Like, I I can't go
anywhere.
Yeah. And so but I really love this
approach, and I and I agree completely. Like,
there are these different dynamics happening, and often
we we're trying to just assume or push
people into that group one. Like, no. No.
No. This is these ideals are important. You
should like to journal. And if you don't
like to journal, well, come on. Let get
on board, and and you should start liking
to journal. Right? That's right. And and the
comment, which is certainly, you know, well meaning
in that, you know, you you get out
of church what you put into church,
that's like a very
person one or group one mindset of, like,
yeah. If you go in there and you,
like, put in the mental work, thinking is
through and kinda chewing on in your own
brain, you're gonna get something out of it.
That's totally true.
But we don't wanna create a church experience
that's only for those people.
Right. And we wanna start to expand this
out. And I and and I think there's
some very clear ways
to to expand the reach to get all
three of those groups in. And let let
me give you an example of a lesson
we had. This was
maybe a year, year and a half ago.
We wanted to talk about giving blessings, you
know, the quintessential lesson of here's how you
give blessings and and
the wording and stuff like that.
So we started, and we actually started with
sort of an ideal state. I had some
guys share
experiences with blessings that were really powerful for
them. Okay?
And then
after talking about that,
I kind of paused this a second and
said, you know, guys,
sometimes
I don't wanna give blessings.
Sometimes
when I go to,
like,
bless someone who's sick, I hope that they
ask me to anoint instead of do the
blessing.
And and I get really nervous
about,
like, blessing babies in church because it's in
front of the entire
church.
And and in fact,
one of my kids,
I figured out a way to, you know,
have them blessed at home. I can't remember
the exact circumstances of why that was. But,
like, part of that was just inside of
me. I was afraid.
I was really nervous about doing that in
front of
the whole congregation.
I said, like,
who else
has experienced that? Who who else has felt
that, like, I really don't wanna give a
blessing? And,
you know, not surprising,
a lot of people felt that way. Like,
that's not an unusual thing. There are a
few people who are just
and then maybe you're one of those. You're
thinking, like, man, you don't wanna give a
blessing? Like, why did they give you the
priesthood?
But I think I think it's a
a relatively universal experience
of Yeah.
Of of feeling nervous about that. And so
we kinda talked about that. Like, why is
that, guys? Like,
what about giving blessings is hard,
despite the fact that we just talked about
how
awesome it is, how cool how cool of
experiences you can have.
And that led into an awesome discussion
about
the things as men
that would hold us back
from offering to give a blessing.
And it was transformational
for me,
as we talked about, you know, how Satan
wants us to feel unworthy, how, you know,
worrying about the words we say and,
whether it's gonna sound
spiritual or
sound
impactful.
Like, we just we, like, process that out
loud. So it's like it's like the chewing
that the the group one's doing inside their
own head. We did it out loud as
a group. We just kind of chewed on
it for a while. Yeah. And and I
came out of it
personally.
The fear of giving blessings was largely gone.
And since then, I I've had no issues.
And so it was it was transformational for
me to be in that group, to talk
about the real challenge,
being willing to kinda put yourself out there
spiritually
to
ad hoc, give a blessing,
you know,
by the inspiration of God, but, you know,
are you being inspired by God? Like, there's
all kinds of nuances there.
But it gave me a lot of hope
and
encouragement, and we like, I think everyone came
out of that meeting just feeling really strengthened.
So it it started, though, with that kind
of
calling out the elephant in the room. Right?
Sometimes we don't wanna give blessings.
And and that's it's hard to say that
because
that can make you feel like something about
you is broken. A priesthood holder shouldn't
not want to give blessings. Right? That's that's
a a good priesthood holder would never feel
that.
Well but sometimes we do, but we're not
broken.
But we do feel that. So let's process
that together. Let's understand that. Yeah. It's a
very human experience. So when you when you
bring that up, somebody else will lean in.
Oh, good. He said what I was thinking.
Right? And and that stimulates that connection. So
let me, like, back up more broadly and
just make sure I'm following and and and
give maybe the listeners a place to connect.
So when you walk into Elders Quorum, I
mean, you or as you're preparing or, you
know, obviously, it's not just you preparing every
time, but maybe the instructor or others,
hopefully, they're doing so with this idea of
keeping these three groups in mind saying, like,
I can't just go in there and speak
to the ideal and and assume everybody's gonna
jump on board and love it and and
walk out, like, motivated. But you're considering these
three groups. Right? And then
how what does that what's the application of
that look like? Like, how do you actually
I mean, you've given some examples, but, I
mean, you know, this principle you talk about
that
the in core meetings, connection precedes
meaningful instruction.
Like So so let's so let's talk about
the the the connection part because it
it all lines up together. So,
you know, the the real discussions happen when
people are are vulnerable and talk about
the real challenges they're facing. But how do
we make it so they feel safe to
do that? So there's a couple of things
that we've done
as a presidency
to try and create the safety that allows
someone to say, hey.
I feel like I'm a little broken in
this way. And and that's not what they
say. They say,
I have an issue with swearing, or I
have,
you know, I struggle with this, that, or
the other. But what they're in effect, they're
kind of saying is, hey. In this little
way, I'm a little bit broken.
And and that's why it requires so much
vulnerability
to go there.
But the reality is we're all broken
in a little bit of way. Maybe it's
sometimes the same one, maybe it's different.
So what have we what have we done
to try and create safety?
The first thing is,
we did start
to have a conversation at the beginning of
Quorum
just about life.
And that was really, really hard when we
started. It's probably because we jumped in. We
knew what we wanted to do, but,
the people weren't prepared for it. We probably
didn't start doing it the right way, but
we we just walked in and said, okay,
guys. What's up? What's happening in life? Like,
what's,
any,
you know, achievements at work? And we kinda
changed up the question we'd ask, like, hey.
Is it what you know, did you have
an accomplishment at work this week or something
with your family that was off them or,
spring break descended? Did someone go somewhere cool
for spring break?
And the first time I asked that question,
it was dead silence.
No one I mean, because it was so
foreign
to
what had been done for so many years
in that quorum setting.
So it was just quiet. It was hard.
Yeah. But we kept doing it. We stuck
with it.
And
I'll admit for a long
it never got, like, super smooth
or just, like, where people are just kind
of scouting all over the place. Some some
weeks would be, some weeks weren't. And I
actually questioned
for a time whether that was really
meaningful.
And then after we collected some data that
said, yes. It was. I'll talk about that
in a second. But that was the first
thing. We we spend time with the quorum
talking
about
life and what's going on.
The second thing is we had a conversation
as a quorum that's where we specifically asked,
what are the things about
being guys or this this group general specifically
that would keep us from connecting?
And then we came up with three ground
rules to sort of address those. There are
three ground rules, and we talk about these
not every lesson, but,
you know, every other month. Let's remind, okay,
guys. Our three ground rules are,
number one, we love each other.
And that means that when someone expresses something
and they're reaching out for someone,
we will meet that.
Right? We we're there. Like, we love each
other. We're here for each other.
Number two,
we trust each other.
And that means that when I say something
that's either controversial
or vulnerable,
no one's gonna attack me. No one's gonna
talk about it outside of quorum.
We'll validate you. We'll we'll be there for
you. You can trust us to be there
for you,
if you go into that space.
And the last one is we're honest with
each other. Like, we say what we're actually
thinking,
as opposed to putting up a veneer. So
so we talk about those and try and
make those kind of our guiding principles
of our discussion.
Yeah. And I think that that was it
was helpful to talk about it out loud
and everyone be like, hey, guys. We're we
our tendencies are to do things
that will
inhibit
sharing. So let's specifically do these other things
that will counteract those and encourage sharing.
Yeah. Yeah. There's there's so much here, and
there's such a good, valid,
like, practice of having these ground rules. And,
you know, nobody listening should necessarily copy and
paste exactly what you said. Like, great. Those
are ours now. Right? But to really process
what's needed in
in in your,
in your in your quorum, there's a book
out there that I've referenced before. It's on
our, leadingsaints.org/books
page, and it's it's called the art of
gathering by Priya Parker. And she talks about
this concept of creating a container
and
of of of a meeting, whatever meeting it
is. And, obviously, it works in the context
of a core meeting where there's certain boundaries
in that meeting. Right? You know where,
the the experience
begins and ends, and you also know the
rules of what's happening in there. And sometimes
you make too many assumptions as far as
assuming well, everybody knows, like, you know, what
what's going on in elders quorum and how
we should act. But to have these ground
rules and even invite the quorum, say, are
we missing anything here? Is there another ground
rule we need to put in place? And
in my elders quorum experience,
even stating, like, you guys, just so we
know and I I literally go and close
the doors of of the you know, we're
in the Culture Hall. And I'll say, everything
we talk about, we invite you to let
let it remain in this room. Right? Mhmm.
And that naturally creates some safety that guys
will lean in. They'll speak up more, and
and they'll get more real that way. And,
again, it's a ground rule. Just having having
ground rules and articulating them can really stimulate
a a positive
quorum experience.
Yeah.
So so those those are two things that
that we've done. The third one, we didn't
start until probably a year afterwards,
and it was a part of a discussion
we're having about
setting a conference talk about prayer and the
power of prayer and stuff like that. Mhmm.
And I kinda got vulnerable to group and
said, hey. I'm I'm sitting here listening to
this. I'm processing it. I do that as
elders. I'm right. I'm one of those, you
know, growth processing people. I'm processing, and I'm
realizing
I'm your elders quorum president, but I am
not
regularly praying for you guys by name.
And and they kind of ripped me for
a little bit, and they should have. Right?
That's that's something that elders quorum president should
be doing. Right? But it was a kind
of admission like, yeah. I'm not.
And and it morphed into a conversation in
the group about
why don't we pray for each other? What
would what would it look like if we
did? Why don't we? What how powerful would
that group be if we prayed for each
other? And so we decided at that core
meeting,
to start asking
kind of collectively decided, let's let's ask each
other, what can we pray for? And, you
know,
guys will be guys. The
I said something like, the first person that,
like, is willing to, like, put themselves out
there and ask for something to pray for,
I go give them a candy bar. And,
like, ten seconds later, I get,
a thing on, on our group chat, and
it's like,
pray that I get a candy bar from
one of the kids one of the guys
in my core.
I'm like That's great. I knew someone was
gonna say that. But, I mean, it it's
fun. We we have a lot of fun.
Yeah.
But then some people started to talk about,
like, hey. I could actually use a prayer
about this.
And what's cool about that,
when you have a guy saying, would you
pray for me?
That
sort of implicitly, again, says,
I'm broken in a little in a small
way, and I could use your guys' strength
and support
to help
help me deal with that and help me
move past that and and get
gain strength.
And it's actually turned into a really, really
sweet experience,
to have that conversation and just to say,
hey. What who which of you guys here
can we pray for
today?
And one experience that really stands out to
me, we'd asked that question in a core
meeting, and
a couple of people had shared something. And
then I could tell someone who was in
the back was, like,
thinking about saying something. So I say, hey.
What what's what's up? And he was like,
hey.
My wife's in the hospital right now. None
of us knew. Like, my wife's in the
hospital.
We don't know what's going on. Like, it's
kinda scary.
Would you pray for her? And, like, in
that moment, I was like, you know, lesson
aside. Right? I mean Yeah. Yeah. Like, set
everything aside. Like, dude, like, let's talk about,
like, how can we support you? Like, what
what's going on? Like, what can we do?
And and what I think about and what
I'm
most scared of the knowledge core principles is
that we would go through an entire lesson.
We're talking about journals and how awesome journals
are, and someone's in the back corner the
whole lesson thinking,
my wife is in the hospital. Like, I
can't even think about the stuff they're talking
about because there's something
really challenging going on in my life, and
none of these guys know about it. They're
just gonna doing their thing, talking about
journal writing,
and,
like, my wife's in the hospital. It's like
so
creating that space for someone to share,
these are some challenging things that are going
on,
creates connection,
creates
unity,
encourages vulnerability,
and
and make sure that we're not leaving someone
else
out in the cold as we're having our,
you know, cute little discussion about something when
they're really struggling with something big.
Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful. I love that story.
And and, again, it just, like you said,
if you almost feel the shift,
you know, in the in the core meeting
when someone really leans in that way and
that that brotherhood really stimulates. So,
talk to me about as far as, like,
connection outside
the Sunday quorum meeting every other every every
other week. How have you done that? Sure.
For a while, I wasn't sure if if
guys really wanted to be that because we
were doing no quorum activities.
There hadn't been a quorum activity for probably
five or six years when I got called.
You know, this is even pre COVID. Really
didn't do anything. So we sent out a
survey,
and we actually sent it out again since
then. I've got,
some results from that survey.
23
out of 25 people that filled out our
kind of activity interest survey said we want
to meet outside of quorum, and that kinda
surprised me. I I thought it'd be, like,
five or six. Right? Almost a %
of of members of my quorum that fill
up the survey said, yeah. I wanna meet
with guys outside of quorum. So that that
kind of makes a shift and say, okay.
We want to meet.
How do we wanna do that? So we've
organized,
what we do as a quorum
in kind of two buckets.
The first bucket is
activities that are planned and sponsored by the
elders quorum presidency,
and
we wanted to do those in ways that,
really strengthen the man in some certain key
ways. So when we came in, we saw
there are four relationships
that we wanted to support our elders in.
Number one, the relationship with God. Number two,
their relationship with their wife,
number three, their relationship with their kids, and
number four, their relationship with other men. And
so we said, like, that's that's how we
wanna do this. And and Sunday,
generally, that's ours help them strengthen their relationship
with God. So what we did is as
we planned activities, and we tried to do
them,
every other month or so. We'd we'd rotate
between those three categories.
So first,
guys with other guys. So plan a shooting
activity. Everyone
shows up. Someone brings guns, and we shoot
for a while.
Or,
hey. We wanted to help dads
who have kids. Not all not all of
the
elders have kids. That's fine.
Not every activity is gonna apply
to every person.
But so we planned,
sledding activities. We planned a camping activity,
an evening
hangout
play activity. And some of them were just
like, yeah. Leave the wides at home. Guys,
this is just you and your kids. Come
and and have a cool experience.
And then others were focused on,
guys
and their spouse. So,
planned a date night with, like, painting and
stuff,
have planned game nights, adult adult only game
nights,
focused on inviting people to come as couples
and and hang out together. So,
those activities,
some have been wildly well attended. Some, there's
only been four or five people.
And that's how we we kinda post them
and say, if this is a need for
you,
come. That's cool. Not everyone needs to come.
You don't need to be here, but we
wanna create this opportunity. If this is a
need that you have,
jump on in. Yeah. So that's kind of
the quorum organized activities. We've also worked on
starting,
interest based
micro groups. I don't know. I'm sure it's
the right word for it. Mhmm.
But it's really just,
people who had shared interests
and create a space for them and kinda
help jump start
that to happen. So one of the groups,
that started was,
weekly soccer
in the gym group.
And
from our perspective, what that involved was finding
the people who are interested, connecting them together.
We helped them find the equipment that they
need to
start
meeting and playing soccer, and then it has
taken off, and it's happening all on its
own. Right? We don't supervise. We don't do
anything. It just keeps happening. There's a,
discussion book group that happens.
And based on a recent survey we did,
there's a couple of others that we're gonna,
kind of do that same thing. Start it,
be an incubator
to help it stay alive in the first,
you know, couple of months when it's hard
for those to get going, and then have
them go off and run by themselves.
That's awesome. Yeah. So those kinda two different
groups,
I think maximizes
our impact and our time
spent,
but then creates opportunities for people to gather
in a variety of different contexts
and in support of different interests.
And so those, those are typically happening, like,
on a weekly basis, like the one that
you do with those focuses?
Is that a weekly thing? Or It's it's
what the group wants to do. Right? Oh,
okay.
And there's been a few that have started
and then kinda stopped, and we're gonna try
and kinda start them again. And that and
that's natural. It's sort of an ebb and
flow.
And I'm just curious with all those activity
outside the quorum. Like, you obviously, the ones
the interest based ones, they kinda get their
a life of their own, and they manage
that and just keep it going or, you
know, or come back to it. But is
there do you feel like there's, like do
you have to one of your counselors that
focus on making sure the activities are happening?
Or how how do you like, with the
administration and management of all that?
They're usually pretty simple. It's not a lot
of energy and time.
Guys typically aren't very needy.
We don't have to create this elaborate experience
for them. It's really just gather together.
There's some donuts,
some guns, or some sleds, or hot chocolate,
or, you know
the one that we did that was a
painting,
we did bring in,
someone from the Relief Society to kinda help
lead that. And and and some of the
activities do end up
co coordinated or co planned with Relief Society.
We had a great relationship with them
to say, hey. We we're doing activity to
support men and their wives that obviously, you
know, impacts you and and your group. Let's
work on this together. And that's worked out
as well too.
Awesome. Anything else to mention as far as
building connection outside of the the suddenly core
meeting? Yeah. There is.
One of the key elements
to connection has been,
using WhatsApp
as
a informal communication mechanism
from in between people within the quorum. And
I'm gonna talk a lot about WhatsApp. That
speaks of what we know. There's probably other
platforms out there. We actually considered switching to
Discord
at one point, and there's there's probably others.
But,
what the WhatsApp looks like, we try and
get as many of the guys on there.
They're not all on there, but most of
them are.
And, you know, if I just pull it
up,
the last two weeks,
Hey. Does anyone have a tile saw? I'm
looking at doing some stuff in my,
kitchen. Hey. There's activity this, you know, game
night this Friday.
Hey.
Someone got put taken to the hospital. Can
you guys pray for them?
Didn't have a battery charger.
Didn't know how to or, you know, a
good place to get a garage door fixed.
I could keep going on. Right? It's just
very informal connection, but it's it's an opportunity
for someone to reach out and say, hey,
guys. I have a need and to have
people in your quorum
meet that need.
And,
we use that for hey. The you know,
someone in the hospital needs a blessing. Is
there anyone available?
This Saturday, we gotta move.
We need six people who's available.
And and the fact that it's not just
one way communication, it's not an email newsletter
that goes out from the presidency to everyone
and just kind of out, and they just
receive it.
There's a lot of back and forth and
people connecting with each other. So I think
that's been a really powerful platform
to
to, you know, connect people in nonspiritual
matters as well as spiritual
things. Yeah. Yeah. And in modern days, like,
with these so many apps and places to
connect, it should almost be mandated that every
quorum should have a a group chat of
some type. Right? That because I see that
a lot in our our quorum chat as
well. Just the the very informal
requests or thoughts or, you know, someone shares
a funny meme or, you know, whatever it
is, and and is this such a simple
way to stimulate
further connection outside the Gorm meeting. Right? Yeah.
Yeah. And I I will note WhatsApp has,
expanded
the flexibility of the system. You can now
have a kind of an umbrella community group,
and then underneath it, a bunch of subgroups.
And so we're actually in the process of
transitioning that right now where each of the
focus or interest groups will have their own
sub
group or substring
within the group. And so everyone can see
what's happening, but they don't necessarily have to
be part of the conversation or get all
the notifications.
So the there's some issues in trying to
make sure that people don't leave because there's
just too much
unwanted chatter.
Yeah. So something you kinda have to manage
as as a presidency.
But, we're we're gonna it's and that's been
a great resource.
Yeah. That's awesome. There's some groups that aren't
doing that, so strongly encourage them to if
they if they aren't.
Yeah. That's great. That's awesome.
Alright. What about the last principle here is
minister to the ministers.
Yeah. So I mentioned at the beginning that
we we got the program
administratively
in position, and I I won't say that
it has
been spectacularly
successful
at the
the ministering
to the family's level.
And and we've tried lots of different things
and,
you know, more hand holding. I mean, I
I everything I would tell you, you'd be
like, yeah, Adam. I can tell you that
that wasn't gonna
work.
But, you know,
but what what we've kind of settled on
at this point is to say,
if we can't
make ministry happy, because you can't really force
it, what we can do is we can
minister to the men,
through the ministry interviews.
And,
the hope is that over time,
by
modeling what it looks like to look after
someone,
and
to kinda show this, like, yeah. I'm not
here
to
drive accountability.
I'm here to drive relationship. And that's the
purpose of a ministry interview, and that's also
the purpose of ministering. It's not administrative.
It's not teaching.
It's really ministering and looking at them. So
so I think the keys there are most
of our ministry interviews happen
over the phone, which I, I think some
people prefer in person. We found doing over
the phone is is just fine.
Yeah.
And
three quarters of the conversation is, hey. How
are you doing?
How's how's work? How's your family?
How's life? What's going well? What's what are
you struggling with?
And and really spending time
being with
the the minister, the person.
Yep. And then at the and then there's
a a chunk of it that's that asks,
how is ministering working for you? Like,
what what are the obstacles? Like, are you
finding fulfillment in it? Are you not finding
fulfillment? Like, how is it working for you?
And then,
you know, is there anything we can support
you to help you level up in a
way that you want to with ministering?
And,
so it's kind of a bit of ministering,
a bit of administrative, and mostly just, hey.
I'm here to minister to you. And Yeah.
So I know. Will will that work? Has
it worked? Yeah. Not not not amazing. Well,
but Well, I think we
I don't know. We we kinda, like,
frame the ministering interview in in maybe awkward
ways, and we wonder it almost becomes,
less fun when we do that because it's
sort of like you know, maybe too often
we just quickly default to, like, well, how's
your family? It's like, are you ministry? Do
you know your companion? Like, we get right
into it. Yeah.
And that's just like I don't know. Like,
I there's so much more that can happen
there where it's more of an interview of
connection. And, you know, if you're you're simulating
this connection in in core meeting, hopefully, it
gets easier. But Yeah. By just by just
making it a real conversation of how you
doing, you're like, oh, yeah. And,
you know where to find your ministering assignment.
Right? Like, you know, and and I don't
know. It'll be a lot a lot more
engaging, and people it'd be less, like, you
know, pulling teeth that way. But Yeah. And
and they've been great conversations, and I've I've
really enjoyed there have been times when,
my counselors have done some of them, and
I've done some of them. There's been some
quarters where I just did I said, hey,
guys. I'm doing all this quarter.
I wanna I wanna connect in with people
and just kinda find out what's going on.
And that Yeah. Both both are good.
I like as president to to know what's
going on and have those connections,
but I haven't always done all of them
myself.
Yeah. Really cool.
Well, Adam, any point principle concept we didn't
hit on that we might need to make
sure we we cover, or how do we
do?
No. Pretty good. Let me let me kinda
round this out Okay. With
a experience we had. This was a lesson
back in December,
and,
I was leading a discussion
or I was supposed to lead a discussion
and,
couldn't narrow down, like, a specific topic to
talk about. And I realized, okay. I I
just wanna hear from them. Like, how is
this working for you guys? Like, what what
are you experiencing?
I wanted to do it
in a way that allowed for maximum,
like, honesty.
So I actually tried something new. I don't
know if you if you're familiar with this
the Slido platform,
where people can anonymously
submit answers to a question.
Oh, cool. Okay. So I threw up a
QR code. Everyone logs on to the Slido
app,
and then,
you know, starting with a question just to
kind of get things started.
And the first question I asked them, that
was kinda a real question,
was,
you know, what have been impactful discussions
for you in the past year in elders
quorum? Like, what's what's really been meaningful to
you? And this I mentioned earlier how,
how much of a struggle it's been for
me to feel like
that first ten, fifteen minutes of Quorum was
productive.
Like, the the guys really enjoyed it. It
wasn't just super awkward.
What was fascinating is,
most of the answers I got to that
question were
I love the time that we spend at
the beginning of quorum talking. And that
that blew me away. I did not expect
that. I expected, you know, this great lesson
or that great lesson,
but, you know, some of the comments were,
you know, the open discussions at the beginning's
very real, supportive,
strengthening.
The most impactful discussions are usually right at
the beginning where we address the needs of
those in the quorum before a scheduled planned
lesson.
Praying for members of the quorum, speaking with
one another concerning the welfare of our souls.
Like and so that was really
satisfying to see that. I think, you know,
all of those times where I asked it,
no one said anything,
when
there was, you know, silence or just it
just didn't seem
it was act it was working.
And and that was what's cool about it.
Like,
people the the guys
want that connection. So even if they don't
look like they want it,
even if they don't act like they want
it, they really do.
And so even if done
awkwardly, poorly, whatever,
taking the time to do that. So if
if someone's hesitant to start that or they
did it once and no one said anything,
I
keep up with it. I keep doing it.
It's really impactful and meaningful to people.
Yeah.
That's awesome. Yeah. So and then we wanna
ask a couple of other questions. And the
last question we asked was, you know, what
remains as my most significant obstacle to personal
spiritual growth? So it's really a question that's
asking for
vulnerability. Right? Yeah. That's a great question.
And there was no.
We didn't get some answers that we suspect
probably are true. Like, no one said I'm
struggling with pornography despite the fact that someone
probably is. So we didn't get, like, a
%
vulnerability, but some of the answers that people
were giving were just really,
they were personal.
Dysfunctional tendencies to my own childhood trauma.
Honestly, my phone. Inner distractions.
Distractions replace meaningful, mindful time with God.
So,
it
it was a cool experience. First of all,
just to be able to ask questions
and allow people to answer anonymously,
which we don't do every I mean, obviously,
most discussions are very much in person. They're
very much, you know, we know who's talking.
But I think occasionally allowing people to,
be more vulnerable than they would be in
person,
I think is valuable. I think we got
some great feedback. And and
in between each of these questions, we stopped
and talked about it, and there was a
lot of like, oh, wow. I didn't realize
people
were feeling that or thought that.
And it kinda changed people's perspective as they
saw what people were really thinking inside. So
I I think it's a cool tool.
Again, I'm not if I don't work for
Slido,
there's there's probably
plenty of apps or versions of of ways
to do that, but creating some system. We're
actually in the process of,
kind of on a weekly basis, having
a Slido that's just out there that someone
if during cornea, they wanted to say something,
but they didn't feel comfortable saying it out
loud, there's a a format that they can
kind of, on the side, discreetly,
throw something up there, and,
the teacher would be the only one that
would see it,
as a way to facilitate
that. Because I think it's hard,
to
have people be vulnerable in front of fifteen,
twenty other guys at the same time. Yeah.
So
providing a format for them to be a
little more vulnerable, but not be so open,
I think, is Yeah. Is helpful.
I love it. Love it. I love a
good tool like that that people can check
out as well. But,
and we've done that in our core meeting
with a simple, just,
you know, anonymous Google form. That's right. You
you just look at it in the spreadsheet
that or the in the results response,
portion, and it's amazing how real people will
get when,
when they know their name isn't attached to
it. It gives us still gives us chance
to discuss it and and share perspectives on
it. You know? So it's really powerful.
Cool, Adam. Well, this has been fantastic. So
many fun ideas. I'm inspired and lot lots
that I I can try and consider.
As, as you consider your time as a
leader, how has being a leader helped you
become a better follower of Jesus Christ?
Yeah.
You know, fantastic question. And,
you know, as I've seen my quorum
grow over the past three years, I've definitely
seen a lot of growth
in myself, and that's been a
hugely rewarding experience for me.
What I see is
when I
am trying to do
God's work in my elders' quorum and I
see him
guide me,
and and not just me, my presidency.
When we're counseling and we're gathering
and ideas come and they flow and they
make sense and then they work and and
then we see growth,
Like, I know that God is
guiding us.
And as a disciple of Jesus Christ,
best thing we can do is know what
he wants us to do.
And as we do,
as we receive revelation
and get guidance and then follow through with
that and do, we we can know in
a given moment,
I am doing
exactly
the right thing.
And that concludes this How I Lead interview.
I hope you enjoyed it. And, I would
ask you, could you take a minute and
drop this link in an email, on social
media, in a text, wherever it makes the
most sense, and share it with somebody who
could relate to this experience. And this is
how we develop as leaders, just hearing what
the other guy's doing, trying some things out,
testing, adjusting
for your area. And,
that's where great leadership's discovered. Right? So we
would love to have you, share this with,
somebody in this calling or a related calling,
and that would be great. And, also, if
you know somebody,
any type of leader who would be a
fantastic guest on the how I lead segment,
reach out to us. Go to leadingsaints.org/contact.
Maybe send this in individual an email letting
them know that you're going to be suggesting
their name for this interview. We'll reach out
to them and,
see if we can line them up. So,
again, go to leadingsaints.org/contact,
and there you can submit all the information
and let us know. And maybe they will
be on a future how I lead segment
on the Leading Saints podcast.
Remember, learn more about disclosing betrayal from Jeff
Struer by visiting leadingsaints.org/fourteen.
It came as a result of the position
of leadership which was imposed upon us
by the God of heaven who brought forth
a restoration
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And when the declaration
was made
concerning the only
true and living Church upon the face of
the earth,
We were immediately put in a position of
loneliness,
the loneliness of leadership
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,
and to which we must face up with
boldness
and courage
and ability.