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Have you ever heard of scrupulosity?

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This is a mental health concern that is

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impacting more Latter day Saints than you think.

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Scrupulosity

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is religious obsessive compulsive disorder

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where individuals are hyper obsessed about their worthiness

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and repentance.

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Sam Baxter, a former bishop, sat down with

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me to talk about his lifelong struggle with

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scrupulosity

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and how he got treatment. You can watch

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this interview for free in the Mentally Healthy

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Saints library by going to leadingsaints.org/fourteen.

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This gets you fourteen days free access to

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Sam Baxter's interview about scrupulosity

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and 25 plus other interviews about ministering to

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those who struggle with mental health. The content

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is priceless for leaders. So visit leadingsaints.org/14

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for free access.

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So my name is Kurt Frankem, and I

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am the founder and executive director of Leading

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Saints and, obviously, the host of the Leading

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Saints podcast. Now I started Leading Saints back

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in 02/2010. It was just a hobby blog

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and it grew from there. By the time,

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02/2014

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came around, we started the podcast and that's

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really when it got some,

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traction and took off, 02/2016.

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We became a five zero one c three

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nonprofit organization, and we've been growing ever since.

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And now I get the opportunity

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of interviewing and talking with remarkable people all

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over the world. Now this is a segment

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we do on the Leading Saints podcast called

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How I Lead, and we reach out to

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everyday leaders. They're not experts, gurus, authors, PhDs.

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They're just everyday leaders who've been asked to

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serve in a specific leadership calling, and we

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simply ask them, how is it that you

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lead? And they go through some remarkable principles

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that should be in a book, that should

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be behind a PhD. They're usually that good,

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and, we just talk about, sharing what the

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other guy is doing. And I remember being

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a leader just simply wanting to know, k.

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I know what I'm trying to do, but

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what's the other guy doing? What's working for

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him? And so that's why every Wednesday or

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so, we publish these how I lead segments

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to share.

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Hey. Good news. This is the how I

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lead episode where you get to meet Brenda

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Engel.

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A long story of how I got connected

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to Brenda, but I'm so glad I did.

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And we wanted to rush this episode because

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it is time sensitive. There's some cool things

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happening that Brenda's involved with.

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But obviously, first of all, in this episode,

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we talk about

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being a leader in the church who has

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been divorced and what that's like and how

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do you reconcile

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some of those feelings when you feel sidelined,

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whether it's because of a divorce or other

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things. And a really fascinating discussion, I think

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many will benefit. This is almost like two

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episodes in one that we have here because,

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that first part we talk about her leadership

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experience or her journey through being divorced and

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but also then later serving in some leadership

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callings and having more of a a full

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heart for those who have had a similar

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life experience.

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And then we talk about Brenda's humanitarian

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efforts,

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and she's been involved in Africa, in, Eastern

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Africa in so many ways. And many of

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you know, whether you remember it or not,

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but president Nelson has announced the temple in

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Nairobi, Kenya that's,

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actually done and and about to be go

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have the open house and things.

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And Brenda talks about this interesting dynamic of

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how members in Africa sometimes don't have you

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know, they're so far away from temples at

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times. They don't really have a full concept

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of what the temple is and how to

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why they should be excited about it and

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those things. And so she's organizing a really

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cool trip,

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where she's getting as many Latter day Saints

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as possible just to get to the dedication

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and the open house of the Nairobi Temple.

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Now you may think, well, wait wait a

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minute, Curt. Why don't you just wait and

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have them go when they're ready to take

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out their endowments. Right? Well, the church has

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funding and things to actually get the members

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there for their endowment, but this is kind

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of the step before that where we help

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members kinda shift that paradigm of really understanding

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the holiness of the temple, what the temple

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is. We want them to touch and feel

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and walk through the temple, and then that

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propels them on the this path of actually

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going through the temple for their own endowment.

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So really big deal that this part of

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the world is is getting a temple like

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like everywhere else. And,

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so there, listen to the end and look

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for links in the show notes about ways

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that we're going to kind of do a,

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a flash, fundraiser

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for this group that Brenda is putting together

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in order to, get Latter day Saints in

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Eastern Africa to experience the temple. So it's

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gonna be awesome. And let's jump into this

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interview. Here we go. My interview with Brenda

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Engel.

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Brenda Engel, welcome to the Leading Saints podcast.

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Thank you. So good to be here.

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Yeah. This is a a quick one. We're

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hoping to turn around,

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pretty fast. We'll we'll explain why. But,

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through various networks and connections, we were able

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to to connect. And you're just one of

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those people I come across from time to

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time. I'm just so intrigued by your background

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and experience on on so many other facets.

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And I think you put it well in

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before I hit record that you how did

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you put it? You you exist to help

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struggling saints. Is that a a fair way

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to put it? I do. That's what I

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spend my life

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doing. I love it. And yes.

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Nice. I call it making my mess my

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message and helping other people to take theirs

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and doing something good with it. So Nice.

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And so that's led to you being a

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life coach, to being an author, and and

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any other, realms that we should mention?

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Oh, man. Being a mom of

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nine kids and 40 grand kids and just

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life. Life is the greatest teacher. That's been

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my greatest tutor

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besides the savior. Yes.

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And what are you seeing? Like, just speaking

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generally, when I talk with individuals like you

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or therapists or, you know, people who interact

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with with Latter day Saints sort of on

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that on that real,

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you know, just the the the real level.

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Right? The authentic level. Like, what are you

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seeing out there? What what are people struggling

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with? What are the typical concerns you run

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into? Just just generally speaking.

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I would say

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number one is just knowing who we are,

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and I know president Nelson's asked this. So

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when we can find out who we are,

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it resolves a lot of

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of issues. And trust, just trusting. There's a

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lot of anxiety, which means we're struggling with

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just trusting, and we're trying to fix things.

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We're trying to make things work. We're trying

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to figure them out, but we're we're forgetting

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to trust. And it's hard when you've been

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through hard things. So I think

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those two components are

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maybe the biggest that I see.

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Yeah. Because, I mean, we often I mean,

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just like any group of humans, we we

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set we point towards ideals of life, and

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we set point towards frameworks in life that

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that help, like the gospel. I mean, it's

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a phenomenal

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framework. Now is it, you know, a %

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as far as giving you all your wish

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and dreams and taking all problems out of

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your life? I think all of us, you

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know, chuckle if if if anybody said that.

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And so life gets messy, like you said.

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Right? And and so how do we navigate

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that? That mess is often where people struggle.

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And that struggle is where we get strong.

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So it's like we knew we were gonna

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have that.

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It's part of life, but, man, when it

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hits us, we're like, wah wah. I don't

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know what to do with this now. Even

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though I supposedly have all the textbook answers,

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it's like, okay. Now it's real. What am

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I gonna do? So

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Tell tell me a little bit about, having

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a chance to read your book. Is it

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have you published more than one book? Or

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I I have two books. Why Not Me

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and then Breaking the Yokes That Bind Us.

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That's,

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like, 64

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simple little things to help break out and

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move forward, and I love those. Those are

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assignments I give people,

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usually what I speak on when I speak.

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Just lots of just simple tools, doctrine principles,

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some really fun things, some deep things that

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just like if you're in a rut, here

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we go. Try some of these. Yeah. So

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And, obviously, the the why not me is

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sort of playing off of the question that

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a lot of us ask is why me?

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Why why am I suffering all these these

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struggles and adversities? And so you kinda can

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flip that and find deeper meaning.

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That's right. That's exactly right. We we're usually

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all brought to our knees

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and asked that question at one point, which

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I have definitely done myself. And,

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we gotta find a bigger perspective, a bigger

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purpose to the pain and the struggle, and

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that can open up our life force and

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get us going. So

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Yeah. Good. You mentioned as we were talking

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about this interview, just some left turns that

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maybe your life has have taken as far

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as, you know, things you didn't expect.

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You found yourself single later on in life.

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You know, you mentioned nine kids, and and,

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that

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what what do you remember from that as

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far as just your relationship with the church

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and what that what that meant for you

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going forward? What what what points should be

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highlighted there?

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Well, I remember thinking during that that if

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I wasn't a member of church, this would

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be so much easier because

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I had had a lot of callings. I

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knew everybody. Our home was the gathering place.

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Like,

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we were sort of, like, you know, my

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kids were amazing kids, and,

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yeah. It got it got really hard. So

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the

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the gospel part of it and

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navigating through

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what,

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even priesthood leaders thought and

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how, you know, all of that got tough,

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like really, really, really tough. And I'm so

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grateful for it because I'll have people say,

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oh my goodness, Brenda. Look what's going on.

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Like, I'm not believed. I'm being sidelined. I'm

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being this. I'm like, hey.

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I can probably top your story. But you

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know what?

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We get this is our this is where

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we get to show where

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where we're at and we're gonna get through

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this and move through it. And I know

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how you feel and I understand, and so

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00:10:07,970 --> 00:10:10,370
let's get going. Let's hold on because if

266
00:10:10,370 --> 00:10:12,450
you don't hold on, where are you gonna

267
00:10:12,450 --> 00:10:14,450
be at? And so that's my my biggest

268
00:10:14,450 --> 00:10:15,990
thing was, like, singles that,

269
00:10:16,690 --> 00:10:17,190
really

270
00:10:17,975 --> 00:10:19,675
get kicked in the gut. And

271
00:10:20,055 --> 00:10:21,435
it's so common

272
00:10:22,055 --> 00:10:22,875
and very

273
00:10:23,254 --> 00:10:25,415
seems to be getting more common and which

274
00:10:25,415 --> 00:10:26,795
is sad and tragic, but

275
00:10:27,254 --> 00:10:30,055
yeah. Yeah. So, correct me if I'm wrong,

276
00:10:30,055 --> 00:10:31,335
but did you kinda feel like you were

277
00:10:31,335 --> 00:10:33,179
on this path, like, the storybook path of,

278
00:10:33,179 --> 00:10:34,539
like, you know, are you doing all the

279
00:10:34,539 --> 00:10:35,980
things? You had the great family, the the

280
00:10:35,980 --> 00:10:38,379
gathering place. You were the family that maybe

281
00:10:38,379 --> 00:10:39,659
a lot of people looked up to, and

282
00:10:39,659 --> 00:10:41,980
then suddenly Yes. You're not. And so people

283
00:10:41,980 --> 00:10:43,659
in our community, whether they intend this or

284
00:10:43,659 --> 00:10:45,039
not, they kinda don't know

285
00:10:45,524 --> 00:10:46,264
how to

286
00:10:46,644 --> 00:10:48,884
how to approach you, how to engage with

287
00:10:48,884 --> 00:10:51,625
you anymore, how to talk about, you know,

288
00:10:52,485 --> 00:10:54,004
members of your family, or I don't know.

289
00:10:54,004 --> 00:10:55,365
Like, is that is that a fair way

290
00:10:55,365 --> 00:10:57,044
to frame that? What to do. They don't

291
00:10:57,044 --> 00:10:58,644
know what to do. Like, I remember going

292
00:10:58,644 --> 00:11:00,500
to church for at least six months and

293
00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:01,720
having people just

294
00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:04,419
avoid me. And here I I'm like miss

295
00:11:04,419 --> 00:11:07,139
social. Like, I have served everybody there. I'm

296
00:11:07,139 --> 00:11:09,139
like and all of a sudden, boom. And

297
00:11:09,139 --> 00:11:10,759
it's not because they're

298
00:11:11,220 --> 00:11:14,225
bad people or anything. It's because they don't

299
00:11:14,225 --> 00:11:15,205
know how to handle.

300
00:11:15,745 --> 00:11:17,264
And in my case, they'd heard a lot

301
00:11:17,264 --> 00:11:20,225
of things that maybe they, you know, maybe

302
00:11:20,225 --> 00:11:22,144
that's what they believed or it's all they

303
00:11:22,144 --> 00:11:23,684
knew. And so

304
00:11:24,799 --> 00:11:26,159
I had a man come up to me

305
00:11:26,159 --> 00:11:28,339
one time and just this is after months

306
00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:29,860
of being there alone

307
00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:32,079
and just put his arm around me. He

308
00:11:32,079 --> 00:11:34,159
didn't say anything. He just put his arm

309
00:11:34,159 --> 00:11:37,039
around me, and he hugged me, and he

310
00:11:37,039 --> 00:11:37,779
walked away.

311
00:11:38,404 --> 00:11:40,644
And I was in such a rough place,

312
00:11:40,644 --> 00:11:42,485
and I spent all day making that man

313
00:11:42,485 --> 00:11:44,804
of strawberry pie. I just wanted to thank

314
00:11:44,804 --> 00:11:47,925
him for reaching out. But I decided if

315
00:11:47,925 --> 00:11:49,845
I know somebody struggle, I'm not gonna let

316
00:11:49,845 --> 00:11:51,925
him go through it alone. I I can't.

317
00:11:51,925 --> 00:11:54,230
I wanna be there with them. Yeah. And

318
00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:55,750
I and I guess it's and I feel

319
00:11:55,750 --> 00:11:57,509
like we all know this stuff, but it's

320
00:11:57,509 --> 00:11:59,269
just a good reminder and to to talk

321
00:11:59,269 --> 00:12:01,110
with somebody who's maybe you've been through it

322
00:12:01,110 --> 00:12:03,429
where it's just the simple moments of, like,

323
00:12:03,429 --> 00:12:05,029
oh, there they are at church. They're sitting

324
00:12:05,029 --> 00:12:07,125
by themselves, or I'm gonna make sure I,

325
00:12:07,284 --> 00:12:09,605
you know, just say hello for thirty seconds

326
00:12:09,605 --> 00:12:11,845
and chat and check-in and and let them

327
00:12:11,845 --> 00:12:13,284
know that we love them type type of

328
00:12:13,284 --> 00:12:14,105
thing. Right?

329
00:12:14,485 --> 00:12:18,325
Absolutely. It's priceless. I I can't even emphasize

330
00:12:18,325 --> 00:12:20,710
that. Just be present with them, and the

331
00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:23,350
details don't matter. Sometimes we wanna know, like,

332
00:12:23,350 --> 00:12:25,830
what happened? Like, this family, like, what's it?

333
00:12:25,830 --> 00:12:27,049
And and, you know,

334
00:12:27,830 --> 00:12:29,509
most people still don't know, and it doesn't

335
00:12:29,509 --> 00:12:32,470
even matter. It's it matters that that we

336
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:34,870
mourn with people that mourn, that we keep

337
00:12:34,870 --> 00:12:36,644
our baptismal covenants, that

338
00:12:37,024 --> 00:12:39,504
we we are there to help sucker them,

339
00:12:39,504 --> 00:12:42,304
and that's what matters. And there are some

340
00:12:42,304 --> 00:12:43,825
people who are so good at it, and

341
00:12:43,825 --> 00:12:45,345
I wanna get good at that. I just

342
00:12:45,345 --> 00:12:47,205
wanna be good at at,

343
00:12:48,144 --> 00:12:50,404
you know, being present with them and,

344
00:12:51,879 --> 00:12:53,799
you know, helping them move through it. So

345
00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:56,919
Yeah. And I think there is a I

346
00:12:56,919 --> 00:12:58,919
don't know. I don't wanna make something that's

347
00:12:58,919 --> 00:13:01,019
not there, but I I've thought about

348
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,279
somehow creating some episodes, some content around this

349
00:13:04,279 --> 00:13:05,079
dynamic of,

350
00:13:05,745 --> 00:13:07,264
you know, like, for example, the the stake

351
00:13:07,264 --> 00:13:09,024
president who called me as bishop is is

352
00:13:09,024 --> 00:13:11,504
now divorced. And Yeah. You know, we're we're

353
00:13:11,504 --> 00:13:12,404
in touch and,

354
00:13:12,865 --> 00:13:14,945
you know, I've run another stake president's bishops

355
00:13:14,945 --> 00:13:15,445
who,

356
00:13:15,985 --> 00:13:17,745
either, you know, end up divorced or they

357
00:13:17,745 --> 00:13:19,524
just have this complete

358
00:13:20,539 --> 00:13:22,159
life changing dynamic.

359
00:13:22,779 --> 00:13:24,699
And before, it was sort of so easy

360
00:13:24,699 --> 00:13:26,299
to approach these people. They're you know, we

361
00:13:26,299 --> 00:13:27,579
can put them in a box. They are

362
00:13:27,579 --> 00:13:29,419
the church leader. They they've sort of figured

363
00:13:29,419 --> 00:13:31,179
it out. Like, they're they're the sage. Like,

364
00:13:31,179 --> 00:13:33,105
they they have some good advice. And then

365
00:13:33,105 --> 00:13:35,264
when they're not, we're sorta like, ah. And

366
00:13:35,264 --> 00:13:37,264
and I know a lot of people can

367
00:13:37,264 --> 00:13:39,764
sometimes approach those past leaders, those past,

368
00:13:40,544 --> 00:13:41,204
you know,

369
00:13:41,745 --> 00:13:42,245
respectable

370
00:13:42,784 --> 00:13:44,384
people that, you know, that's sort of where

371
00:13:44,384 --> 00:13:45,824
where we've classified them in a way of

372
00:13:45,824 --> 00:13:46,324
like,

373
00:13:46,709 --> 00:13:48,309
maybe you did something wrong. You know, if

374
00:13:48,309 --> 00:13:50,149
you only did more of that, they're you

375
00:13:50,149 --> 00:13:51,990
know, you must have broke this, you know,

376
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:54,149
when in reality, it's just mortality a lot

377
00:13:54,149 --> 00:13:55,049
of the time. Right?

378
00:13:55,669 --> 00:13:56,169
Absolutely.

379
00:13:57,029 --> 00:13:58,809
Yes. And it it can be a

380
00:13:59,375 --> 00:14:01,294
a faith crisis. Like, when we hold people

381
00:14:01,294 --> 00:14:03,294
up so high, it's our expectations of them,

382
00:14:03,294 --> 00:14:05,054
and I think we've gotta be really careful

383
00:14:05,054 --> 00:14:05,634
of that,

384
00:14:06,014 --> 00:14:08,115
that it can it can help,

385
00:14:09,375 --> 00:14:11,235
like, hurt our own

386
00:14:11,660 --> 00:14:13,820
testimony, which our testimony shouldn't be in that.

387
00:14:13,820 --> 00:14:16,059
But sometimes we just put some even even

388
00:14:16,059 --> 00:14:18,460
apostles or, you know, we've gone through things

389
00:14:18,460 --> 00:14:20,860
where people find, you know, fault with a

390
00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:22,720
prophet or whatever, and it's like,

391
00:14:23,740 --> 00:14:25,115
it's it's really,

392
00:14:26,134 --> 00:14:28,455
you know, our relationship to God and ourselves

393
00:14:28,455 --> 00:14:29,355
and and

394
00:14:29,735 --> 00:14:32,054
getting back on our lane and living in

395
00:14:32,054 --> 00:14:34,054
our lane and not letting that take us

396
00:14:34,054 --> 00:14:35,735
out. But it it is very difficult to

397
00:14:35,735 --> 00:14:37,254
see. And we have a lot of pain

398
00:14:37,254 --> 00:14:39,240
with that. We hate to see really good

399
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:39,639
people,

400
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,980
go through those kinda tragic things. It's it's

401
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:44,779
it's awful

402
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,480
Yeah. For us. But but the Lord sees

403
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:48,139
a different

404
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,000
path and plan, and we're all here for

405
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,259
experience, and we've gotta leave it to him.

406
00:14:53,975 --> 00:14:55,495
So how long has it been now since

407
00:14:55,495 --> 00:14:56,795
you've been, single?

408
00:14:57,894 --> 00:15:01,175
Ten years. I'm thinking around that. Yeah. Wow.

409
00:15:01,175 --> 00:15:03,894
Okay. And you mentioned to me, like, you

410
00:15:03,894 --> 00:15:05,254
sort of it sounds like you went through

411
00:15:05,254 --> 00:15:07,360
a period where you weren't sure where you

412
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:08,879
fit and do it all in in all

413
00:15:08,879 --> 00:15:10,559
the church and then, you know, the community

414
00:15:10,559 --> 00:15:12,799
wasn't sure where you fit. Right? But then

415
00:15:12,799 --> 00:15:14,639
there suddenly, there were some callings that came

416
00:15:14,639 --> 00:15:16,559
your way, and you did you kinda feel

417
00:15:16,559 --> 00:15:18,179
like you found that place again?

418
00:15:18,835 --> 00:15:20,995
I I did. I was just I I

419
00:15:20,995 --> 00:15:23,315
believe the lord compensates us for our losses.

420
00:15:23,315 --> 00:15:26,115
That's, Yeah. You know, like, great quote of,

421
00:15:26,434 --> 00:15:28,115
and he promised me that when I was

422
00:15:28,115 --> 00:15:30,615
at my lowest that he would compensate me,

423
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:33,509
and he has. And you gotta hold on

424
00:15:33,509 --> 00:15:35,210
for that too. And all of it hasn't,

425
00:15:36,149 --> 00:15:38,629
happened, but much of it has. So I

426
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:39,990
moved out of the area that I was

427
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:41,529
in, which was really,

428
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:43,129
needful,

429
00:15:44,149 --> 00:15:44,629
and,

430
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:46,570
moved to another place and

431
00:15:47,004 --> 00:15:49,985
and was immediately giving a pretty good

432
00:15:50,444 --> 00:15:53,745
church calling as far as busy and leadership.

433
00:15:53,964 --> 00:15:54,464
And

434
00:15:54,845 --> 00:15:57,004
I cried for, like, a month because I

435
00:15:57,004 --> 00:15:58,704
just I'd already done that.

436
00:15:59,164 --> 00:16:00,929
I just I don't know. I just

437
00:16:01,409 --> 00:16:03,009
it was direction for me on what the

438
00:16:03,009 --> 00:16:04,529
Lord wanted me to do for the next

439
00:16:04,529 --> 00:16:06,049
little bit. So that was So you cried

440
00:16:06,049 --> 00:16:07,730
in a way of you cried in a

441
00:16:07,730 --> 00:16:09,409
way of, like, you did not wanna do

442
00:16:09,409 --> 00:16:11,110
this type of thing? I didn't

443
00:16:11,490 --> 00:16:13,809
want to do it, but I knew I

444
00:16:13,809 --> 00:16:16,014
knew it was, and it was it helped

445
00:16:16,014 --> 00:16:18,495
save me. Like, I service saves us. Like,

446
00:16:18,495 --> 00:16:20,735
I am the biggest proponent of service and

447
00:16:20,894 --> 00:16:22,894
Yeah. And getting in there and loving people

448
00:16:22,894 --> 00:16:25,455
and losing yourself in that. And what I

449
00:16:25,455 --> 00:16:27,534
noticed is this this place that I was

450
00:16:27,534 --> 00:16:28,034
in,

451
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,019
nobody judged me. They're like, oh,

452
00:16:31,799 --> 00:16:33,559
did your husband die or something? You know?

453
00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:35,799
And I'd have to say, well, like, I

454
00:16:35,799 --> 00:16:37,879
couldn't say the d word for five years.

455
00:16:37,879 --> 00:16:39,000
Like, I couldn't even say it. I was

456
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:39,740
so embarrassed.

457
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:40,540
But

458
00:16:41,134 --> 00:16:43,134
people, they they were so good, and they

459
00:16:43,134 --> 00:16:44,735
took me anyway. I was able to serve

460
00:16:44,735 --> 00:16:46,654
and love, and then I got another calling.

461
00:16:46,654 --> 00:16:48,414
And and that one,

462
00:16:49,455 --> 00:16:52,414
and just just for reference, I'll just tell

463
00:16:52,414 --> 00:16:53,774
you that it was a stake early study

464
00:16:53,774 --> 00:16:55,534
president because when I got that and I

465
00:16:55,534 --> 00:16:57,540
was coaching a lot of singles that a

466
00:16:57,540 --> 00:16:59,379
lot of people had been divorced, and they

467
00:16:59,379 --> 00:16:59,879
thought

468
00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:02,740
they were sidelined by the church with callings.

469
00:17:02,740 --> 00:17:04,580
They're like, I don't even have a calling

470
00:17:04,580 --> 00:17:05,220
or I've been

471
00:17:05,859 --> 00:17:07,299
one guy told me, I've been the door

472
00:17:07,299 --> 00:17:09,585
greeter for five years. And I said, well,

473
00:17:09,585 --> 00:17:11,204
be a good one. And he

474
00:17:11,505 --> 00:17:13,345
he said, I am the best one. I

475
00:17:13,345 --> 00:17:14,704
said, okay. I want you to move up

476
00:17:14,704 --> 00:17:16,704
front in church. And so he moved up

477
00:17:16,704 --> 00:17:17,204
front

478
00:17:17,505 --> 00:17:20,065
and was called to be Sunday school friend.

479
00:17:20,065 --> 00:17:21,904
Anyway, so there's a part of us that

480
00:17:21,904 --> 00:17:23,505
have gotta not hang back and get in

481
00:17:23,505 --> 00:17:26,680
there. Right? So he anyway, I'm talking to

482
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,519
singles, and I'll and they're like, so what

483
00:17:28,519 --> 00:17:29,559
do you do? And I said, well, I

484
00:17:29,559 --> 00:17:30,759
just got called to be a stick release

485
00:17:30,759 --> 00:17:32,619
type person. I know it's, like, kind of,

486
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,539
like, strange. And they're like, what?

487
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,674
We didn't know you could do that. Like,

488
00:17:37,894 --> 00:17:40,154
is this a new policy? And I'm like,

489
00:17:40,375 --> 00:17:41,434
I don't think so.

490
00:17:41,894 --> 00:17:44,454
I'm I I mean, even my dad okay.

491
00:17:44,454 --> 00:17:46,615
So this is funny. He's a bishop twice,

492
00:17:46,615 --> 00:17:49,575
stake presidency for nine year, ten years. And

493
00:17:49,575 --> 00:17:50,795
he's like, Brenda,

494
00:17:51,169 --> 00:17:53,089
I didn't know they could do that. So

495
00:17:53,089 --> 00:17:53,589
anyway,

496
00:17:53,890 --> 00:17:56,049
I blew people's minds. It's like but I

497
00:17:56,049 --> 00:17:57,890
love that because I had people come out

498
00:17:57,890 --> 00:18:00,470
and say, that makes me feel good that

499
00:18:00,929 --> 00:18:01,589
we aren't

500
00:18:01,890 --> 00:18:04,015
we aren't just, like, damaged and can't ever

501
00:18:04,015 --> 00:18:05,375
be. And it's like, no. We're still the

502
00:18:05,375 --> 00:18:07,295
same people. We're gonna still serve, and we're

503
00:18:07,295 --> 00:18:09,134
still gonna do what God and my favorite

504
00:18:09,134 --> 00:18:11,295
place is just being a ministering sister. Like,

505
00:18:11,295 --> 00:18:13,775
that's my favorite. And I don't care where

506
00:18:13,775 --> 00:18:16,015
where I'm at, but that was that was

507
00:18:16,015 --> 00:18:17,075
interesting that

508
00:18:19,470 --> 00:18:21,150
that it did help people to know that

509
00:18:21,150 --> 00:18:22,750
that was a possibility, which I know that

510
00:18:22,750 --> 00:18:24,930
happens all over the church. But yeah.

511
00:18:25,470 --> 00:18:27,070
You know, you you've said this word a

512
00:18:27,070 --> 00:18:29,090
few times as far as being feeling sidelined.

513
00:18:29,549 --> 00:18:31,644
That's an interesting concept to me. And I

514
00:18:31,644 --> 00:18:33,404
remember even in my own experience where I

515
00:18:33,404 --> 00:18:35,345
went through this, like, decade of, like,

516
00:18:35,644 --> 00:18:38,525
various, like, you know, church leadership assignments from

517
00:18:38,525 --> 00:18:40,684
bishop break to being the bishop to being

518
00:18:40,684 --> 00:18:42,125
in the stake presidency, and then it was

519
00:18:42,125 --> 00:18:44,204
all over. We moved and, you know, it

520
00:18:44,204 --> 00:18:45,585
was sort of over. And

521
00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:47,740
for years, it kinda had this feeling, not

522
00:18:47,740 --> 00:18:49,259
that I would frame it this way, but

523
00:18:49,259 --> 00:18:51,259
I kinda felt like I was being sidelined.

524
00:18:51,259 --> 00:18:52,940
Like, don't they know, like, the experience I

525
00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:55,099
bring to this place? And I could just

526
00:18:55,099 --> 00:18:56,380
help out so much if they just put

527
00:18:56,380 --> 00:18:57,660
me in that chair and and I could

528
00:18:57,820 --> 00:19:00,184
you know? And and and it wasn't so

529
00:19:00,184 --> 00:19:01,305
much I was being sidelined. It was just

530
00:19:01,305 --> 00:19:03,065
like, no. That season is just over for

531
00:19:03,065 --> 00:19:05,144
now. You know? And, you know, now I'm

532
00:19:05,144 --> 00:19:06,984
serving as elders' corn president. Kinda feel like

533
00:19:06,984 --> 00:19:09,305
I'm gonna reintroduce for this season as long

534
00:19:09,305 --> 00:19:10,205
as it'll last.

535
00:19:10,664 --> 00:19:12,125
But it is like I think the adversary

536
00:19:12,265 --> 00:19:14,419
really works on that. Like, isn't it isn't

537
00:19:14,419 --> 00:19:15,859
it awful now that you're sitting in the

538
00:19:15,859 --> 00:19:16,839
bench? You know?

539
00:19:17,140 --> 00:19:18,900
Like like like, they don't want you in

540
00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:20,900
these things. Yeah. Why do we make something

541
00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:23,299
out of these callings? Because we're all people

542
00:19:23,299 --> 00:19:25,859
just serving, and it it can be tough

543
00:19:25,859 --> 00:19:28,494
when you when you don't have that, you

544
00:19:28,494 --> 00:19:31,054
know, responsibility anymore, but sometimes it's just the

545
00:19:31,054 --> 00:19:33,214
really cool experience of being close to people

546
00:19:33,214 --> 00:19:36,494
and serving people. And while I've never missed

547
00:19:36,494 --> 00:19:38,654
getting changed from a calling, really, I do

548
00:19:38,654 --> 00:19:40,575
miss that connection with people. And so that

549
00:19:40,654 --> 00:19:41,460
that's a great

550
00:19:41,779 --> 00:19:43,720
great blessing. But you can get that nursery.

551
00:19:43,779 --> 00:19:45,159
Oh my goodness. I love

552
00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:48,259
that. Sure. So Yeah. And and reframing that

553
00:19:48,259 --> 00:19:50,179
really helped me of sitting, like, you know,

554
00:19:50,179 --> 00:19:52,339
with my experience, like, the things I've I've

555
00:19:52,339 --> 00:19:54,259
been able to experience up to this point,

556
00:19:54,259 --> 00:19:56,125
the callings I've had, it really makes me

557
00:19:56,125 --> 00:19:57,404
a different kind of member. And so I'm

558
00:19:57,404 --> 00:20:00,045
gonna reengage. I'm gonna be a leader without

559
00:20:00,045 --> 00:20:02,285
that formal calling and reach out to maybe

560
00:20:02,285 --> 00:20:04,765
those that are literally on the sidelines or

561
00:20:04,765 --> 00:20:07,259
those that, you know, that need more administering.

562
00:20:07,259 --> 00:20:08,619
I can actually do that, where when I

563
00:20:08,619 --> 00:20:10,220
was a bishop, I I was too busy.

564
00:20:10,220 --> 00:20:11,820
You know? I couldn't take time to sit

565
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:13,339
with that person in the foyer or or

566
00:20:13,339 --> 00:20:14,460
do this or that. Now I can. And

567
00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:14,960
so

568
00:20:15,420 --> 00:20:16,619
to me, I just so, you know, this

569
00:20:16,619 --> 00:20:18,859
isn't this is a asset that I have,

570
00:20:18,859 --> 00:20:20,720
my experience, that I can be a better

571
00:20:21,055 --> 00:20:21,555
regular,

572
00:20:22,015 --> 00:20:23,154
you know, Joe Schmo,

573
00:20:24,015 --> 00:20:25,474
church member. You know? Absolutely.

574
00:20:25,934 --> 00:20:27,455
Well, on the other side of that, I've

575
00:20:27,455 --> 00:20:29,535
had I've had a lot of people coaching

576
00:20:29,535 --> 00:20:31,234
them that say, you know, I've never

577
00:20:31,615 --> 00:20:33,855
had a calling of any significance. And I'm

578
00:20:33,855 --> 00:20:35,730
like, well, what does that mean? But, you

579
00:20:35,730 --> 00:20:38,309
know, it's like in you know, they always

580
00:20:38,690 --> 00:20:41,250
it it's like they've they've always wanted to

581
00:20:41,250 --> 00:20:43,009
have something never have. And I think we

582
00:20:43,009 --> 00:20:43,750
just put

583
00:20:44,210 --> 00:20:46,529
so much on that, and that's it goes

584
00:20:46,529 --> 00:20:49,170
back again to having high expectations for for

585
00:20:49,170 --> 00:20:50,295
those people and those

586
00:20:50,855 --> 00:20:52,855
callings as well. We just have to be

587
00:20:52,855 --> 00:20:55,174
so careful about. And some of the greatest

588
00:20:55,174 --> 00:20:57,255
people ever were just scout leaders for, like,

589
00:20:57,255 --> 00:20:58,855
thirty years. I know a guy just thirty

590
00:20:58,855 --> 00:21:00,934
years just serving these kids. Like, what is

591
00:21:00,934 --> 00:21:02,154
better than that? Like,

592
00:21:02,659 --> 00:21:04,419
really? But why do we do this? I

593
00:21:04,419 --> 00:21:06,579
don't know. Yeah. It's human nature. Right? And,

594
00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:09,880
and I think sometimes in these more, saturated

595
00:21:09,940 --> 00:21:11,000
areas of the church,

596
00:21:12,019 --> 00:21:13,380
you know, there's just a lot of people

597
00:21:13,380 --> 00:21:14,900
a lot of people who can serve, and

598
00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:17,444
so these seasons come and go. And and

599
00:21:17,444 --> 00:21:18,804
I have to remind myself that a lot

600
00:21:18,804 --> 00:21:20,404
of you know, it's just I'm because I'm

601
00:21:20,404 --> 00:21:22,085
not in that season. That's okay. And but

602
00:21:22,085 --> 00:21:24,325
others get the opportunity because, you know, if

603
00:21:24,325 --> 00:21:25,924
I was called as bishop again, my heart

604
00:21:25,924 --> 00:21:27,924
would almost hesitate and break. Be like, wait.

605
00:21:27,924 --> 00:21:30,085
Like, there's others that need this opportunity. Like

606
00:21:30,267 --> 00:21:31,809
Yeah. I I've had my goal. Like, give

607
00:21:31,809 --> 00:21:33,369
it to someone else. You know? So Yeah.

608
00:21:33,490 --> 00:21:35,169
It's interesting. For sure. That's right.

609
00:21:35,649 --> 00:21:36,710
Anything else about

610
00:21:37,009 --> 00:21:38,630
that time as, being

611
00:21:39,009 --> 00:21:39,589
a single,

612
00:21:40,450 --> 00:21:42,789
divorcee, you know, in as a stake

613
00:21:43,255 --> 00:21:44,315
relief study present

614
00:21:44,694 --> 00:21:47,194
that that comes to mind? Well, I

615
00:21:47,654 --> 00:21:49,115
I feel like that

616
00:21:49,575 --> 00:21:50,315
I I

617
00:21:50,694 --> 00:21:52,454
I feel like the best part of that

618
00:21:52,454 --> 00:21:52,954
was

619
00:21:53,575 --> 00:21:54,554
having people

620
00:21:55,789 --> 00:21:58,429
get hope in the fact that I I

621
00:21:58,429 --> 00:22:00,190
knew their pain and I knew their struggles,

622
00:22:00,190 --> 00:22:02,130
and it was a really highly,

623
00:22:02,990 --> 00:22:05,549
leadership stake. People have been leaders all over

624
00:22:05,549 --> 00:22:07,630
the world and just Mhmm. A really,

625
00:22:08,429 --> 00:22:09,650
anyway and so

626
00:22:10,134 --> 00:22:12,375
I I really did feel like that that

627
00:22:12,375 --> 00:22:13,815
was one of the purposes for me to

628
00:22:13,815 --> 00:22:16,775
be there was to really have empathy, which

629
00:22:16,775 --> 00:22:18,294
is what our trials teach us, to have

630
00:22:18,294 --> 00:22:21,035
empathy for those who are struggling and to

631
00:22:21,335 --> 00:22:22,775
be able to put my arm around them.

632
00:22:22,775 --> 00:22:24,474
And they would just say,

633
00:22:25,150 --> 00:22:27,170
it means something because you know

634
00:22:27,549 --> 00:22:28,690
what I'm going through.

635
00:22:29,150 --> 00:22:30,289
And and that's

636
00:22:30,750 --> 00:22:32,910
that's a great opportunity. That's why I tell

637
00:22:32,910 --> 00:22:35,069
people, whatever your struggle is, reach out to

638
00:22:35,069 --> 00:22:36,429
those that have the same one because they'd

639
00:22:36,429 --> 00:22:37,490
rather hear from

640
00:22:37,855 --> 00:22:39,315
someone who had to send,

641
00:22:39,934 --> 00:22:42,335
you know, a child die or someone who

642
00:22:42,335 --> 00:22:44,894
commits suicide talk to them than Mhmm. Someone

643
00:22:44,894 --> 00:22:46,734
like me that has not gone through that.

644
00:22:46,734 --> 00:22:47,234
And

645
00:22:47,934 --> 00:22:48,434
so

646
00:22:48,894 --> 00:22:50,509
I think that was that was great. But

647
00:22:50,509 --> 00:22:52,349
I got to rub shoulders with some of

648
00:22:52,349 --> 00:22:54,909
the most amazing leaders. And what the Lord

649
00:22:54,909 --> 00:22:57,649
did was he compensated me completely with,

650
00:22:58,349 --> 00:23:00,289
I remember sitting down in in

651
00:23:00,750 --> 00:23:01,890
the first stake,

652
00:23:02,674 --> 00:23:04,674
meeting with our stake president, and he got

653
00:23:04,674 --> 00:23:05,974
out a pencil and paper,

654
00:23:06,515 --> 00:23:08,515
and he just said, tell me what the

655
00:23:08,515 --> 00:23:09,255
women need.

656
00:23:09,954 --> 00:23:11,714
Tell me what you want us to do.

657
00:23:11,714 --> 00:23:13,634
And that had not been my experience before

658
00:23:13,634 --> 00:23:15,529
when I was stake really site president. It

659
00:23:15,529 --> 00:23:17,529
had really come a long ways, and I

660
00:23:17,529 --> 00:23:18,809
I just I didn't know what to even

661
00:23:18,809 --> 00:23:20,329
say. I'm like, woah. But it was just

662
00:23:20,329 --> 00:23:22,509
such a great experience to see how we're

663
00:23:22,730 --> 00:23:25,710
we're growing and coming, and we're we're

664
00:23:26,649 --> 00:23:29,075
we're just moving in a in a great

665
00:23:29,075 --> 00:23:31,154
direction there. So I love that. I loved

666
00:23:31,315 --> 00:23:31,815
Yeah.

667
00:23:32,434 --> 00:23:33,095
That experience.

668
00:23:33,795 --> 00:23:35,955
So I gotta ask that maybe you don't

669
00:23:35,955 --> 00:23:38,115
remember, but what did you say, when you

670
00:23:38,115 --> 00:23:39,875
pulled out that pen and paper? Oh, I

671
00:23:39,875 --> 00:23:42,349
had stuff. Oh, I had so much stuff.

672
00:23:42,490 --> 00:23:42,990
Yes.

673
00:23:43,289 --> 00:23:44,990
I I did. I I

674
00:23:45,289 --> 00:23:46,970
the first thing that I told him was

675
00:23:46,970 --> 00:23:47,470
that,

676
00:23:48,330 --> 00:23:49,930
I want the bishops to connect with the

677
00:23:49,930 --> 00:23:52,589
Relief Society presidents on a weekly, if not

678
00:23:52,730 --> 00:23:54,570
couple times a month basis. Most of my

679
00:23:54,570 --> 00:23:56,744
Relief Society presidents were not meeting with their

680
00:23:56,744 --> 00:23:58,984
bishops and things like that. So it's like

681
00:23:58,984 --> 00:24:00,744
that's why we're in there is to help

682
00:24:00,744 --> 00:24:02,825
bring in this other side and say, oh,

683
00:24:02,825 --> 00:24:03,805
yes. And we,

684
00:24:04,664 --> 00:24:06,445
yeah, I I have a good list.

685
00:24:06,825 --> 00:24:08,105
That's cool. And I I just love that

686
00:24:08,105 --> 00:24:09,940
exercise of, like, you know, not that the

687
00:24:09,940 --> 00:24:11,700
state president has to do everything that you

688
00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:14,019
mentioned, but No. That would be great. You

689
00:24:14,019 --> 00:24:16,180
know, you you probably felt very heard by

690
00:24:16,180 --> 00:24:17,860
the time you left that that office that

691
00:24:17,860 --> 00:24:18,360
day.

692
00:24:19,380 --> 00:24:21,059
Any any other advice that comes to mind?

693
00:24:21,059 --> 00:24:23,315
I'm just thinking of those maybe who've gone

694
00:24:23,375 --> 00:24:25,694
through a divorce and because I think a

695
00:24:25,694 --> 00:24:27,134
lot of leaders go to a place of

696
00:24:27,134 --> 00:24:29,454
like, well, let's give them space. Let's not,

697
00:24:29,454 --> 00:24:31,214
you know, let's not give them a calling.

698
00:24:31,214 --> 00:24:32,994
They have so much stress already.

699
00:24:33,934 --> 00:24:35,774
You know, they're trying to do that with

700
00:24:35,774 --> 00:24:37,710
a big heart when in reality, the the

701
00:24:37,789 --> 00:24:38,450
the member

702
00:24:38,750 --> 00:24:40,190
going through all that can interpret it like,

703
00:24:40,190 --> 00:24:41,409
oh, now I'm kinda being

704
00:24:41,869 --> 00:24:44,109
alienated in in my ward. You know? Any

705
00:24:44,109 --> 00:24:45,869
advice you give to church leaders as far

706
00:24:45,869 --> 00:24:48,589
as, like, those individuals are sort of fresh

707
00:24:48,589 --> 00:24:49,409
off a divorce?

708
00:24:49,945 --> 00:24:50,605
I just,

709
00:24:51,065 --> 00:24:53,144
helped a a guy in the state presidency

710
00:24:53,144 --> 00:24:55,545
back in Georgia. He's he's assigned over the

711
00:24:55,545 --> 00:24:57,625
single adults, and it it is so tough

712
00:24:57,625 --> 00:24:58,125
because

713
00:24:58,505 --> 00:25:01,384
you've got such a wide variety in every

714
00:25:01,384 --> 00:25:03,404
spectrum. And, you know, some

715
00:25:03,809 --> 00:25:06,230
some want to be invited over for Thanksgiving

716
00:25:06,289 --> 00:25:08,690
dinner, and some feel dumb and don't want

717
00:25:08,690 --> 00:25:10,230
to. And so I think it's just,

718
00:25:10,849 --> 00:25:13,329
approaching it very careful, find out what what

719
00:25:13,329 --> 00:25:15,009
what what could I do to help bless

720
00:25:15,009 --> 00:25:17,029
your life. Like, would you love to be,

721
00:25:17,724 --> 00:25:18,944
involved with our family?

722
00:25:19,244 --> 00:25:21,164
Would you love for how could we best

723
00:25:21,164 --> 00:25:22,924
serve you? And that's where ministering brothers and

724
00:25:22,924 --> 00:25:25,024
sisters could really come into play, but,

725
00:25:26,524 --> 00:25:28,765
it just finding out what because some wanna

726
00:25:28,765 --> 00:25:29,579
come to the

727
00:25:29,980 --> 00:25:32,140
activities and some are like, I will not

728
00:25:32,140 --> 00:25:34,619
cross that threshold. Like, it's so scary. And

729
00:25:34,619 --> 00:25:37,980
so you just got all over widows, divorce,

730
00:25:37,980 --> 00:25:39,819
some have never had been married, some never

731
00:25:39,819 --> 00:25:42,380
have children. Like, everyone is just so unique,

732
00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:44,480
and it really takes a spirit to,

733
00:25:45,785 --> 00:25:47,865
to and and to be present with them

734
00:25:47,865 --> 00:25:49,704
and figure out what it is that's important

735
00:25:49,704 --> 00:25:51,565
for them. But I everyone

736
00:25:53,144 --> 00:25:55,164
needs to feel loved and wanted

737
00:25:56,105 --> 00:25:56,605
and,

738
00:25:57,384 --> 00:25:57,884
valued

739
00:25:59,140 --> 00:26:01,320
in in callings or in,

740
00:26:02,180 --> 00:26:04,579
as a ward member. Like, they really need

741
00:26:04,579 --> 00:26:06,579
to be a part of that family. Yeah.

742
00:26:06,579 --> 00:26:08,500
I bet it's tricky just because those individuals

743
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:10,660
probably don't know exactly what they need. You

744
00:26:10,660 --> 00:26:12,660
know? They're kinda just Exactly. Trying to find

745
00:26:12,660 --> 00:26:13,320
their footing

746
00:26:13,634 --> 00:26:14,375
as it is.

747
00:26:14,674 --> 00:26:16,515
And and so I would always say, I

748
00:26:16,515 --> 00:26:17,015
think,

749
00:26:17,555 --> 00:26:19,474
you know, what I typically see just in

750
00:26:19,474 --> 00:26:21,474
general when somebody goes through a difficult time

751
00:26:21,474 --> 00:26:24,115
is, like, maybe the the church leader reaches

752
00:26:24,115 --> 00:26:26,994
out early in the process and but then

753
00:26:26,994 --> 00:26:29,154
they kinda get busy or distracted, and then,

754
00:26:29,154 --> 00:26:30,650
you know, know, six, seven, eight months go

755
00:26:30,650 --> 00:26:32,170
by and that person think, man, they haven't

756
00:26:32,170 --> 00:26:33,849
even checked back in or you know? So

757
00:26:33,849 --> 00:26:36,250
just that that touch point is, you know,

758
00:26:36,250 --> 00:26:38,509
on a regular basis saying, I'm just checking

759
00:26:38,650 --> 00:26:40,509
in. Such a good point. It's

760
00:26:40,970 --> 00:26:41,470
it's

761
00:26:42,595 --> 00:26:45,495
just some consistency there especially with leadership

762
00:26:46,355 --> 00:26:48,055
means a lot because we often

763
00:26:48,595 --> 00:26:50,375
see the bishop or,

764
00:26:51,555 --> 00:26:52,295
stake president

765
00:26:52,914 --> 00:26:53,414
maybe

766
00:26:53,955 --> 00:26:56,195
kind how we might see the savior in

767
00:26:56,195 --> 00:26:58,480
there is like like, trying to connect to

768
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,880
him and feeling his love through them and

769
00:27:01,039 --> 00:27:02,640
because they are in that place in the

770
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,359
church. And while it's not a % the

771
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:06,799
right way to do it, but there is

772
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:08,880
there is definitely something because they do have

773
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,414
stewardship over us. And and it's hard to

774
00:27:11,414 --> 00:27:13,195
feel like you're floundering and,

775
00:27:13,495 --> 00:27:16,634
like Yeah. And and kinda pushed aside, Sonia.

776
00:27:17,174 --> 00:27:18,154
Yeah. For sure.

777
00:27:18,535 --> 00:27:20,455
Really good. Alright. Like I mentioned, there's so

778
00:27:20,455 --> 00:27:23,434
many, angles and and topics that, we can

779
00:27:23,569 --> 00:27:25,569
talk about in in with your background of

780
00:27:25,569 --> 00:27:26,049
things.

781
00:27:26,769 --> 00:27:29,250
Tell me about your your humanitarian work in

782
00:27:29,250 --> 00:27:31,410
in Africa. What what how did that all

783
00:27:31,410 --> 00:27:32,069
get started?

784
00:27:32,609 --> 00:27:33,589
Well, I

785
00:27:34,690 --> 00:27:36,470
like I said, service is

786
00:27:36,849 --> 00:27:37,750
is just

787
00:27:38,210 --> 00:27:39,190
something that

788
00:27:39,765 --> 00:27:42,265
works every time. If we if we

789
00:27:42,724 --> 00:27:44,884
are in a tough place and we can

790
00:27:44,884 --> 00:27:47,125
find somewhere, it could be next door neighbor,

791
00:27:47,125 --> 00:27:49,125
it could be your ministering sisters and brothers,

792
00:27:49,125 --> 00:27:50,265
it could be anything.

793
00:27:50,965 --> 00:27:53,045
I love all of those, but for some

794
00:27:53,045 --> 00:27:55,259
reason, I just had this, draw to

795
00:27:56,299 --> 00:27:57,039
to humanitarian

796
00:27:57,500 --> 00:28:00,059
in Africa and was very blessed to be

797
00:28:00,059 --> 00:28:01,759
able to go down with the group and

798
00:28:01,820 --> 00:28:03,420
and get involved in that. As I got

799
00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:04,480
in it, I started,

800
00:28:05,339 --> 00:28:07,575
you know, branching out. I loved working with

801
00:28:07,575 --> 00:28:09,575
church members. This little branch, it was, like,

802
00:28:09,575 --> 00:28:11,974
10 members, and now it's, like, got a

803
00:28:11,974 --> 00:28:14,134
50 in. And every time we go, there's

804
00:28:14,134 --> 00:28:16,375
baptisms. These people are just coming and going.

805
00:28:16,375 --> 00:28:18,554
It just fills your soul. It's so

806
00:28:18,855 --> 00:28:20,714
so exciting to see the,

807
00:28:21,980 --> 00:28:23,200
the saints in Africa

808
00:28:23,579 --> 00:28:25,500
so happy and joyful and they just love

809
00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:26,319
God. And

810
00:28:26,619 --> 00:28:28,940
what started me off when when we'd go

811
00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:30,539
down, we'd do Days for Girls Kits, and

812
00:28:30,539 --> 00:28:32,619
we'd talk to the girls about how special

813
00:28:32,619 --> 00:28:33,899
they are and how much God loves them

814
00:28:33,899 --> 00:28:36,480
because they aren't often treated that way. And

815
00:28:37,414 --> 00:28:38,714
in fact, they're they're

816
00:28:39,654 --> 00:28:42,375
devalued as a person, seen more as something

817
00:28:42,375 --> 00:28:44,454
God gave the man to be used. And

818
00:28:44,454 --> 00:28:46,134
so we would talk to girls. So when

819
00:28:46,134 --> 00:28:47,335
I went down there, I said, I'm gonna

820
00:28:47,335 --> 00:28:48,234
talk to the boys.

821
00:28:48,775 --> 00:28:50,734
And they're like, oh, no. We don't talk

822
00:28:50,734 --> 00:28:52,586
to the boys. And I'm like, well, I'm

823
00:28:52,586 --> 00:28:54,439
going to. Because I can't tell the girls

824
00:28:54,439 --> 00:28:56,291
how special they are without teaching the, you

825
00:28:56,291 --> 00:28:58,143
know, the boys. And I just taught them

826
00:28:58,143 --> 00:28:59,995
the proclamation that God wants you to be

827
00:29:00,226 --> 00:29:02,079
to protect the women. And they're like, God

828
00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:03,931
wants us to? I'm like, yes, he does.

829
00:29:03,931 --> 00:29:05,783
And they love God. So it was just

830
00:29:05,783 --> 00:29:07,855
like, oh my goodness. I'd leave I leave

831
00:29:07,855 --> 00:29:09,695
these groups and these boys put their fist

832
00:29:09,695 --> 00:29:11,055
in there, and I'm like, what is your

833
00:29:11,055 --> 00:29:13,375
responsibility to women? And they're like, we are

834
00:29:13,375 --> 00:29:14,115
their protectors.

835
00:29:14,894 --> 00:29:16,974
And they took it literally walking by my

836
00:29:16,974 --> 00:29:19,295
side, like, to I'm like, okay. You know,

837
00:29:19,295 --> 00:29:20,115
just protecting.

838
00:29:20,569 --> 00:29:22,089
It was just so fun because they love

839
00:29:22,089 --> 00:29:23,390
God. These people

840
00:29:24,089 --> 00:29:26,089
love God. And so I can talk about

841
00:29:26,089 --> 00:29:28,829
it anywhere I go. And anyway. So

842
00:29:29,690 --> 00:29:31,289
so we got into this branch, a couple

843
00:29:31,289 --> 00:29:33,769
of the branches down there and helping them.

844
00:29:33,769 --> 00:29:35,804
And I had a young man that I

845
00:29:35,804 --> 00:29:37,484
gave a Book of Mormon to, and he

846
00:29:37,484 --> 00:29:40,125
and I just so connected. And he joined

847
00:29:40,125 --> 00:29:41,184
the church, baptized

848
00:29:41,724 --> 00:29:43,904
15 people right off, and he's just this

849
00:29:44,444 --> 00:29:45,424
awesome kid.

850
00:29:45,804 --> 00:29:46,304
Wow.

851
00:29:47,210 --> 00:29:49,309
What a miracle and a blessing. So, anyway,

852
00:29:50,170 --> 00:29:52,090
that's Africa. I love it. I've been there

853
00:29:52,090 --> 00:29:54,490
probably about fourteen times. I've connected up with

854
00:29:54,490 --> 00:29:55,470
Molly who

855
00:29:56,170 --> 00:29:58,410
tell all of you out there listening, watch

856
00:29:58,410 --> 00:29:59,150
his movie,

857
00:29:59,930 --> 00:30:02,029
Samuel, l l y, Molly from

858
00:30:02,524 --> 00:30:05,664
Kenya. He was just the guest speaker, guest,

859
00:30:06,605 --> 00:30:07,904
the guest at the

860
00:30:09,085 --> 00:30:10,365
Christmas concert for

861
00:30:11,005 --> 00:30:13,325
Oh, cool. I keep saying Tabernacle Choir, and

862
00:30:13,325 --> 00:30:15,005
that's not how you say it. But No.

863
00:30:15,005 --> 00:30:17,585
That's a Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square. Right?

864
00:30:17,859 --> 00:30:18,359
He's

865
00:30:18,899 --> 00:30:21,700
a good man. He's adopted 32,000 children. He'll

866
00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:24,500
be so we're we're getting this temple trip

867
00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:26,919
together. We had this great idea of

868
00:30:27,460 --> 00:30:29,380
of inviting the saints to go to the

869
00:30:29,380 --> 00:30:31,480
temple. They don't know much about the temple.

870
00:30:32,044 --> 00:30:34,125
They didn't grow up with knowing about it.

871
00:30:34,125 --> 00:30:36,444
They've never seen one. It's not like us

872
00:30:36,444 --> 00:30:38,365
who just is surrounded by it and we're

873
00:30:38,365 --> 00:30:40,125
taught since we're little. They have no idea.

874
00:30:40,125 --> 00:30:41,964
So we're like, let's take them to the

875
00:30:41,964 --> 00:30:44,044
open house in Nairobi, this is out of

876
00:30:44,044 --> 00:30:44,544
Tanzania,

877
00:30:45,380 --> 00:30:47,460
And let them see it and experience, and

878
00:30:47,460 --> 00:30:49,539
then they can go home and get their

879
00:30:49,539 --> 00:30:51,700
recommends and and go back and get endowed

880
00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:53,940
because that would be our main goal. And

881
00:30:53,940 --> 00:30:54,440
so,

882
00:30:55,299 --> 00:30:57,974
we invited Molly to come from Kenya. He's

883
00:30:58,134 --> 00:31:00,375
wanting to come and bring 70 of his

884
00:31:00,375 --> 00:31:01,994
people, and we

885
00:31:02,775 --> 00:31:05,015
put this sign up out there to see

886
00:31:05,015 --> 00:31:06,934
who would come from Tanzania. And we thought

887
00:31:06,934 --> 00:31:09,275
we might get 30 people. I think we're

888
00:31:09,414 --> 00:31:11,894
probably gonna have a good 50 to 200

889
00:31:11,894 --> 00:31:13,595
of these early, early fresh

890
00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:14,400
saints,

891
00:31:15,579 --> 00:31:17,099
get on buses and go with us over.

892
00:31:17,099 --> 00:31:19,019
So it sort of grew into this big

893
00:31:19,019 --> 00:31:21,819
undertaking. So That's cool. It's it's like a

894
00:31:21,819 --> 00:31:23,259
good problem, but well

895
00:31:23,660 --> 00:31:27,664
yeah. Yeah. So primary, have you, focused on

896
00:31:27,664 --> 00:31:29,984
a certain part of Africa with a lot

897
00:31:29,984 --> 00:31:32,224
of your humanitarian work, or is you've been

898
00:31:32,224 --> 00:31:33,184
all over? We

899
00:31:33,744 --> 00:31:35,904
this group I'm with, we drill wells mostly

900
00:31:35,904 --> 00:31:38,244
in Tanzania, and then we've gone into Uganda

901
00:31:39,049 --> 00:31:41,049
and Malawi. We've done a lot of wells

902
00:31:41,049 --> 00:31:42,589
in Malawi really, really

903
00:31:43,049 --> 00:31:43,549
needed

904
00:31:43,849 --> 00:31:46,250
and some in Kenya. So we we branched

905
00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:47,529
out a bit, but most of our work

906
00:31:47,529 --> 00:31:48,589
has been in Tanzania.

907
00:31:48,890 --> 00:31:50,569
And that so a lot of that, that's

908
00:31:50,569 --> 00:31:54,429
mainly Eastern Africa. Right? Yeah. Eastern Africa. Gotcha.

909
00:31:54,795 --> 00:31:56,894
And has it always been through a specific,

910
00:31:56,955 --> 00:31:58,894
like, a humanitarian organization?

911
00:31:59,195 --> 00:31:59,434
Or

912
00:32:00,475 --> 00:32:03,355
Yes. Yes. I go with, Hearts and Hands

913
00:32:03,355 --> 00:32:04,735
for Humanity is

914
00:32:05,115 --> 00:32:07,355
the organization that I went with. I'm also

915
00:32:07,355 --> 00:32:08,975
involved with some other humanitarian

916
00:32:09,515 --> 00:32:11,150
groups that go down as well.

917
00:32:11,850 --> 00:32:12,670
So I've got

918
00:32:13,529 --> 00:32:15,450
my feet in a few different pots down

919
00:32:15,450 --> 00:32:16,970
there, but hearts and hands is,

920
00:32:17,450 --> 00:32:17,950
is

921
00:32:18,490 --> 00:32:21,230
how we're doing this temple trip. And Yeah.

922
00:32:21,289 --> 00:32:23,210
And then so how many years collectively have

923
00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:25,575
you been involved with humanitarian work there?

924
00:32:25,974 --> 00:32:27,274
Probably about eight years.

925
00:32:27,575 --> 00:32:31,174
Oh, wow. Great. And it like, maybe just

926
00:32:31,174 --> 00:32:32,534
give us more of a general you know,

927
00:32:32,534 --> 00:32:35,174
you talk about this this, temple dynamic with

928
00:32:35,174 --> 00:32:36,855
how people are they're familiar with the temple,

929
00:32:36,855 --> 00:32:38,774
but they don't kinda have that experience with

930
00:32:38,774 --> 00:32:40,859
it. How else would you describe just your

931
00:32:40,859 --> 00:32:43,720
observation of the church in Africa currently? I

932
00:32:43,819 --> 00:32:44,960
I just

933
00:32:45,420 --> 00:32:45,920
see

934
00:32:46,460 --> 00:32:46,960
humble

935
00:32:48,859 --> 00:32:50,400
people who love god,

936
00:32:50,859 --> 00:32:52,960
and they don't make it crazy

937
00:32:53,579 --> 00:32:55,359
complicated. They're very simple.

938
00:32:56,164 --> 00:32:56,664
They're

939
00:32:57,044 --> 00:33:00,164
they feel they feel deeply, and they love

940
00:33:00,164 --> 00:33:01,224
deeply. And,

941
00:33:01,765 --> 00:33:03,525
you know, when I was talking just two

942
00:33:03,525 --> 00:33:05,044
weeks ago, I was there talking to them

943
00:33:05,044 --> 00:33:07,384
about the temple and this experience, and

944
00:33:07,924 --> 00:33:10,164
they they want what God wants them to

945
00:33:10,164 --> 00:33:10,664
have.

946
00:33:11,589 --> 00:33:13,829
It's it's very, very sweet. And there's there's

947
00:33:13,829 --> 00:33:15,990
gonna be all kinds and people who they're

948
00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:17,909
so poor and they're so struggling that there

949
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:19,210
are gonna be those who

950
00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:21,829
might see it as a vehicle to something

951
00:33:21,829 --> 00:33:24,630
better, which it is, but more in a

952
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:27,765
monetary sense. But, you know, I I took

953
00:33:27,765 --> 00:33:28,904
some money from,

954
00:33:30,085 --> 00:33:32,565
Sister Oaks actually gave me a hundred dollars

955
00:33:32,565 --> 00:33:34,404
when I was going and said, just do

956
00:33:34,404 --> 00:33:36,505
something, you know, with the branch. She's like,

957
00:33:36,644 --> 00:33:38,565
just just do something. And so I went

958
00:33:38,565 --> 00:33:40,960
there and asked the branch president, like, is

959
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,799
there something you could do with people here?

960
00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:44,840
Is there somebody that really need need something?

961
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,620
He goes, no. We we're doing pretty good.

962
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,759
I'm like, these people have one meal a

963
00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:52,480
day. They have to walk, you know, six

964
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,019
hours to get water or

965
00:33:54,375 --> 00:33:56,775
whatever. Like, their life is so hard, but

966
00:33:56,775 --> 00:33:57,275
he

967
00:33:58,134 --> 00:34:00,154
he just said, I can't think of anything.

968
00:34:01,255 --> 00:34:03,654
And so that's who they are. They're most

969
00:34:03,654 --> 00:34:05,894
of the ones I see are are just

970
00:34:06,134 --> 00:34:07,974
they want a better life for their families,

971
00:34:07,974 --> 00:34:09,034
and they love god.

972
00:34:09,339 --> 00:34:09,839
Yeah.

973
00:34:10,300 --> 00:34:12,780
Yeah. And and they just, are attracted to

974
00:34:12,780 --> 00:34:15,119
the gospel. Right? Just that Yes. They're

975
00:34:15,420 --> 00:34:15,920
just

976
00:34:16,219 --> 00:34:16,719
drawn.

977
00:34:17,339 --> 00:34:17,839
Yeah.

978
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:20,139
And what are you seeing as far as

979
00:34:20,139 --> 00:34:20,880
just the,

980
00:34:21,420 --> 00:34:23,659
like, the institutional church there as far as

981
00:34:23,659 --> 00:34:26,515
area presidencies or what the church is doing?

982
00:34:26,515 --> 00:34:28,614
You know, obviously, they have their own humanitarian

983
00:34:28,755 --> 00:34:31,394
efforts and things like that or, you know,

984
00:34:31,394 --> 00:34:33,974
ways that the church is helping, you know,

985
00:34:34,275 --> 00:34:36,034
move people towards the temple or anything else

986
00:34:36,034 --> 00:34:37,474
coming to mind as far as what the

987
00:34:37,474 --> 00:34:39,815
actual institutional church is is doing.

988
00:34:40,340 --> 00:34:40,840
Well,

989
00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:43,640
we, you know, got a 70 over Kenya,

990
00:34:43,860 --> 00:34:45,780
and they just made their first stake in

991
00:34:45,780 --> 00:34:46,280
in

992
00:34:47,380 --> 00:34:49,880
Dar Es Salaam, which is in Tanzania.

993
00:34:50,820 --> 00:34:53,059
And so we're we've spent a lot of

994
00:34:53,059 --> 00:34:55,454
time with, like, a couple of last mission

995
00:34:55,454 --> 00:34:58,034
presence there. They're both natives of Africa.

996
00:34:58,734 --> 00:34:59,234
And,

997
00:34:59,694 --> 00:35:00,835
you know, these guys

998
00:35:01,214 --> 00:35:04,034
are pretty new and pretty in there. Just

999
00:35:04,494 --> 00:35:07,054
it it's just fascinating to watch. They have

1000
00:35:07,054 --> 00:35:07,635
the dedication

1001
00:35:08,610 --> 00:35:10,930
and they have, you know, what what I

1002
00:35:10,930 --> 00:35:11,430
see,

1003
00:35:12,530 --> 00:35:14,130
being very respectful is there are a lot

1004
00:35:14,130 --> 00:35:15,910
of rough edges that have to be,

1005
00:35:17,050 --> 00:35:19,110
you know, taken off. And

1006
00:35:19,730 --> 00:35:22,015
and they're just they're just try so hard,

1007
00:35:22,015 --> 00:35:24,594
but there's just there's some things, like,

1008
00:35:25,695 --> 00:35:26,594
that are just,

1009
00:35:28,015 --> 00:35:30,494
okay. One quick little story. This this my

1010
00:35:30,494 --> 00:35:32,835
African son that is trying to get to

1011
00:35:32,894 --> 00:35:33,635
his his

1012
00:35:34,359 --> 00:35:36,760
mission papers and has had every problem. He

1013
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,519
had them submitted three times, and they never

1014
00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:40,199
came back. So they didn't even know why

1015
00:35:40,199 --> 00:35:41,960
they didn't really get submitted. So I said,

1016
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,719
well, go into the mission president because he's

1017
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,880
like your stake president. So he makes eleven

1018
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,019
hour bus ride

1019
00:35:47,715 --> 00:35:48,934
into Dar Es Salaam,

1020
00:35:49,315 --> 00:35:50,914
goes to the mission president, knocks on the

1021
00:35:50,914 --> 00:35:52,355
door, and he he won't see him because

1022
00:35:52,355 --> 00:35:54,135
he doesn't have any church clothes.

1023
00:35:54,835 --> 00:35:55,894
And Oh, no.

1024
00:35:56,675 --> 00:35:58,835
He doesn't have any money. He doesn't have

1025
00:35:58,835 --> 00:36:01,015
any food. He doesn't have any clothes.

1026
00:36:02,489 --> 00:36:04,409
He's gotta either go all the way back

1027
00:36:04,409 --> 00:36:06,750
eleven hours to get his church clothes

1028
00:36:07,130 --> 00:36:09,389
or try to find some there and go.

1029
00:36:09,929 --> 00:36:12,170
And that's just it's just little things like

1030
00:36:12,170 --> 00:36:13,849
that. That could really frustrate us. If we

1031
00:36:13,849 --> 00:36:16,090
did that to American missionaries, they'd probably like,

1032
00:36:16,090 --> 00:36:18,155
what would they do? But this kid's so

1033
00:36:18,155 --> 00:36:18,655
obedient.

1034
00:36:18,954 --> 00:36:20,875
I said, did that hurt you, Job? And

1035
00:36:20,875 --> 00:36:22,494
he said, no. He said, I

1036
00:36:22,795 --> 00:36:24,795
I wanna do it right. I wanna do

1037
00:36:24,795 --> 00:36:25,695
the right thing.

1038
00:36:26,074 --> 00:36:27,914
And so it just makes me a better

1039
00:36:27,914 --> 00:36:29,675
person to watch it, but there's a lot

1040
00:36:29,675 --> 00:36:30,974
of lot of rough edges

1041
00:36:32,090 --> 00:36:34,650
happening. And like this poor branch president had

1042
00:36:34,650 --> 00:36:36,730
been a member a year trying to send

1043
00:36:36,730 --> 00:36:37,949
a kid out on a mission,

1044
00:36:38,250 --> 00:36:39,550
they don't know what,

1045
00:36:40,730 --> 00:36:42,989
they don't they just they just need help.

1046
00:36:43,364 --> 00:36:45,445
They need help, but they don't need so

1047
00:36:45,445 --> 00:36:47,125
much help that we enable them and that

1048
00:36:47,125 --> 00:36:49,445
we take away that sweet purity that they

1049
00:36:49,445 --> 00:36:50,264
have because

1050
00:36:50,724 --> 00:36:52,164
they have a lot of good things we

1051
00:36:52,164 --> 00:36:54,425
don't have here that we're missing. And

1052
00:36:54,885 --> 00:36:58,105
their simpleness and their simple life and their

1053
00:36:58,164 --> 00:36:58,530
just

1054
00:37:00,130 --> 00:37:02,050
not being offended and so,

1055
00:37:02,369 --> 00:37:02,869
loving

1056
00:37:03,809 --> 00:37:05,030
and willing

1057
00:37:06,050 --> 00:37:07,650
to do what God asked them to do

1058
00:37:07,650 --> 00:37:09,250
and just all kinds of stuff. Not that

1059
00:37:09,250 --> 00:37:11,250
we're not, but our life is busy and

1060
00:37:11,250 --> 00:37:13,784
fast paced, and we're we have all this

1061
00:37:13,784 --> 00:37:16,184
culture stuff going on, and we have we

1062
00:37:16,184 --> 00:37:17,324
have a lot that

1063
00:37:17,704 --> 00:37:20,264
I learned from them. Yeah. Yeah. Just those

1064
00:37:20,264 --> 00:37:22,505
little nuances we take for granted. Right? That,

1065
00:37:22,744 --> 00:37:23,864
you know, of course, you just go to

1066
00:37:23,864 --> 00:37:25,545
the State President's office, and there is an

1067
00:37:25,545 --> 00:37:26,664
office, and they know how to use it.

1068
00:37:26,664 --> 00:37:28,070
They know how to log in. They, you

1069
00:37:28,070 --> 00:37:30,230
know, can just move that process forward. And

1070
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:31,449
sometimes there's maybe,

1071
00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:35,269
cultural hiccups there that confuse members or make

1072
00:37:35,269 --> 00:37:36,789
it more difficult than it has to be.

1073
00:37:36,789 --> 00:37:37,289
Right?

1074
00:37:37,829 --> 00:37:39,269
There's a lady there that had been a

1075
00:37:39,269 --> 00:37:40,869
member for quite a while and and they're

1076
00:37:40,869 --> 00:37:42,805
without any church, but she had joined a

1077
00:37:42,805 --> 00:37:44,905
long time ago. She's really old and sick.

1078
00:37:45,285 --> 00:37:47,305
And she said, Brenda, I just want

1079
00:37:47,684 --> 00:37:49,864
a patriarchal blessing before I die,

1080
00:37:50,164 --> 00:37:52,085
which she's not gonna get because you have

1081
00:37:52,085 --> 00:37:53,765
to have a stake and you have to

1082
00:37:53,765 --> 00:37:55,465
have all this stuff. And so

1083
00:37:56,269 --> 00:37:58,369
all of that is just it's

1084
00:37:59,550 --> 00:38:02,429
it's it's hard stuff, but it's the the

1085
00:38:02,429 --> 00:38:04,449
newness and the freshness and the

1086
00:38:05,069 --> 00:38:05,650
the devotion

1087
00:38:06,030 --> 00:38:07,489
is just so inspiring.

1088
00:38:08,030 --> 00:38:09,569
Yeah. So it's wonderful.

1089
00:38:10,109 --> 00:38:11,409
What was the feeling when

1090
00:38:11,894 --> 00:38:12,394
when

1091
00:38:12,855 --> 00:38:15,034
a temple was announced there in in Nairobi?

1092
00:38:15,094 --> 00:38:17,175
I mean, was that something what what what

1093
00:38:17,255 --> 00:38:18,074
how do they

1094
00:38:18,534 --> 00:38:20,614
interpret that? I mean, are they excited, like,

1095
00:38:20,614 --> 00:38:22,715
we're excited here, or are they maybe still

1096
00:38:23,255 --> 00:38:24,715
not understanding the

1097
00:38:25,340 --> 00:38:27,579
the the accomplishment that that is or that

1098
00:38:27,579 --> 00:38:28,239
that step?

1099
00:38:28,619 --> 00:38:30,380
I I suspect those that have been in

1100
00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:33,119
the church a while are just elated and,

1101
00:38:34,699 --> 00:38:35,840
you know, overjoyed.

1102
00:38:36,780 --> 00:38:37,840
The ones that

1103
00:38:38,244 --> 00:38:41,065
I've been working with, they they just don't

1104
00:38:41,364 --> 00:38:41,864
know

1105
00:38:42,484 --> 00:38:42,984
what

1106
00:38:43,684 --> 00:38:45,625
to be excited about. Like,

1107
00:38:47,204 --> 00:38:48,565
you know, and so we're we're trying to

1108
00:38:48,565 --> 00:38:51,364
teach them. And actually, this little branch started

1109
00:38:51,364 --> 00:38:53,880
doing temple prep classes just for them to

1110
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,980
take this trip in there so they understand

1111
00:38:56,039 --> 00:38:56,779
more. But,

1112
00:38:57,799 --> 00:39:00,679
they just not understanding. Not not ever you

1113
00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:02,920
know, we just we just take for granted

1114
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,519
all of that that they they know the

1115
00:39:04,519 --> 00:39:07,000
scriptures. They know that there was Solomon's temple

1116
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,139
and all that. So,

1117
00:39:08,664 --> 00:39:10,824
it's it's exciting to them, but they don't

1118
00:39:10,824 --> 00:39:13,144
really know how excited to get about that

1119
00:39:13,144 --> 00:39:15,704
because in download, sealing your family together forever.

1120
00:39:15,704 --> 00:39:17,065
I tried to teach them that when I

1121
00:39:17,065 --> 00:39:18,984
was there a couple weeks ago. What does

1122
00:39:18,984 --> 00:39:20,679
that mean to them? And how does that

1123
00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:23,079
word even translate when they were translating it?

1124
00:39:23,079 --> 00:39:24,760
The missionaries were translating it to them. I

1125
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:25,659
don't even know.

1126
00:39:26,119 --> 00:39:26,619
So

1127
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:28,920
it we got a long ways to go.

1128
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,360
And so that's kinda why we thought, well,

1129
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,280
let's let's get them over there and let

1130
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,360
them be there physically. It's only a six

1131
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:35,000
hour drive,

1132
00:39:38,654 --> 00:39:40,255
and let them feel the spirit. These peep

1133
00:39:40,335 --> 00:39:42,734
they can feel the spirit. Right? So Yeah.

1134
00:39:42,734 --> 00:39:44,734
That's interesting because, you know, we hear these

1135
00:39:44,734 --> 00:39:46,674
stories about members across the world,

1136
00:39:46,974 --> 00:39:48,114
you know, maybe in

1137
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,660
less than first world countries who make significant

1138
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:52,460
sacrifice

1139
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,000
to to travel to to do their temple

1140
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:55,739
work. And

1141
00:39:56,039 --> 00:39:58,039
and and so we often hyperfocus on that

1142
00:39:58,039 --> 00:39:59,640
of how can we get temples closer to

1143
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,160
people or how can we get people closer

1144
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:02,845
to temples so they could do their work.

1145
00:40:02,845 --> 00:40:04,925
But we often maybe miss that step, especially

1146
00:40:04,925 --> 00:40:06,845
in these countries that are so new to

1147
00:40:06,845 --> 00:40:08,285
the church or members that are so new

1148
00:40:08,285 --> 00:40:10,545
to the church. They don't even maybe understand

1149
00:40:10,605 --> 00:40:13,244
the significance in order to reach for it.

1150
00:40:13,244 --> 00:40:15,265
And so by giving them an experience

1151
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,800
with the temple, like the the open house

1152
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:18,619
or the dedication,

1153
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:20,699
that can maybe shift that,

1154
00:40:21,159 --> 00:40:23,480
paradigm. And then they're like, okay. I can't

1155
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,079
wait to come back and do my work

1156
00:40:25,079 --> 00:40:27,079
now that I have a deeper understanding of

1157
00:40:27,079 --> 00:40:28,780
just how holy this place is.

1158
00:40:29,144 --> 00:40:31,385
That's what we're hoping. That's that's kind of

1159
00:40:31,385 --> 00:40:33,164
our idea of that, and

1160
00:40:33,704 --> 00:40:36,425
it it it will it will work. Like,

1161
00:40:36,425 --> 00:40:38,744
they're so excited. We can't believe that we

1162
00:40:38,744 --> 00:40:41,190
had I mean, they're they're very, very excited

1163
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:42,230
to go. And I don't even know if

1164
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:43,909
they know what they're so excited about, but

1165
00:40:43,909 --> 00:40:44,650
they're excited.

1166
00:40:45,269 --> 00:40:46,469
Well, it's a it's a good field trip.

1167
00:40:46,469 --> 00:40:47,909
I mean, I'm I'm always game for a

1168
00:40:47,909 --> 00:40:49,150
field trip. You don't just go see something.

1169
00:40:49,150 --> 00:40:49,769
That's true.

1170
00:40:50,630 --> 00:40:52,630
That's true. And we're we're having them put

1171
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:54,230
some skin in the game. Like, they've gotta

1172
00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:54,630
get,

1173
00:40:55,275 --> 00:40:57,194
it's called an emergency passport for just a

1174
00:40:57,194 --> 00:40:58,954
little bit. They have to get a yellow

1175
00:40:58,954 --> 00:41:00,795
fever shot. They have to do some stuff

1176
00:41:00,795 --> 00:41:02,635
to to be able to go. So we

1177
00:41:02,635 --> 00:41:04,394
want them to participate in it. We don't

1178
00:41:04,394 --> 00:41:06,234
wanna hand things to them. That's probably one

1179
00:41:06,234 --> 00:41:08,074
of the toughest stuff all over in these

1180
00:41:08,074 --> 00:41:09,054
countries is

1181
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,800
is don't go in and ruin them. Let's

1182
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,559
don't go in and enable them. Let's give

1183
00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:15,480
them some fish and teach them how to,

1184
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,159
and let's give them things that will help

1185
00:41:17,159 --> 00:41:19,260
them improve their country, but not

1186
00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:21,340
not hurt them. And I see a lot

1187
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,260
of do gooders hurting

1188
00:41:24,305 --> 00:41:26,465
hurting people there for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1189
00:41:26,465 --> 00:41:27,925
The whole humanitarian charitable

1190
00:41:28,385 --> 00:41:30,065
industry, you know, there's a lot of good

1191
00:41:30,065 --> 00:41:32,305
happening, but there's sometimes some some shady stuff

1192
00:41:32,305 --> 00:41:34,805
that that happens far too much, unfortunately.

1193
00:41:35,184 --> 00:41:35,684
Absolutely.

1194
00:41:36,530 --> 00:41:38,130
Maybe break down the dynamics because I think

1195
00:41:38,130 --> 00:41:40,050
this is something that where we as a

1196
00:41:40,050 --> 00:41:41,969
leading Saints organization would love to figure out

1197
00:41:41,969 --> 00:41:43,269
ways we can help. And

1198
00:41:43,570 --> 00:41:44,690
so, essentially, you are

1199
00:41:45,409 --> 00:41:47,670
you need funds to pay for the buses

1200
00:41:47,809 --> 00:41:49,545
and maybe, like, you know,

1201
00:41:49,944 --> 00:41:52,264
meals or, you know, room and board type

1202
00:41:52,264 --> 00:41:53,944
of thing once they get there, or what

1203
00:41:54,025 --> 00:41:57,085
what's what's the, dynamic of actually getting people

1204
00:41:57,704 --> 00:41:59,164
to the Nairobi Temple?

1205
00:41:59,625 --> 00:42:01,484
Well, it's it's not real expensive,

1206
00:42:01,864 --> 00:42:03,704
but we probably should have raised the money

1207
00:42:03,704 --> 00:42:05,010
before we invited them.

1208
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:09,269
We we just did not expect this.

1209
00:42:10,210 --> 00:42:12,070
And, and like I say, the the

1210
00:42:12,410 --> 00:42:12,849
a lot of,

1211
00:42:14,050 --> 00:42:16,050
United States Missionaries are there, and they are

1212
00:42:16,050 --> 00:42:17,889
so excited. Oh my goodness. These guys are

1213
00:42:17,889 --> 00:42:19,964
so excited that they can't cross into another

1214
00:42:19,964 --> 00:42:21,565
country, so they can't even go. And they're

1215
00:42:21,565 --> 00:42:24,384
so bummed, but they're they're really working

1216
00:42:24,684 --> 00:42:26,605
with these people. They're just so excited. So,

1217
00:42:26,605 --> 00:42:28,545
yes, we've gotta bus them in,

1218
00:42:29,404 --> 00:42:31,344
six hour bus drive into Nairobi.

1219
00:42:32,030 --> 00:42:33,489
We'll have to stay the night,

1220
00:42:34,429 --> 00:42:36,109
because of of the drive. Get up the

1221
00:42:36,109 --> 00:42:37,710
next morning, go through the temple, and then

1222
00:42:37,710 --> 00:42:39,329
bring them home, and we'll feed them,

1223
00:42:40,429 --> 00:42:42,510
feed them and give them water. Although they

1224
00:42:42,510 --> 00:42:44,750
could do the whole trip without anything because

1225
00:42:44,750 --> 00:42:45,250
they're

1226
00:42:45,984 --> 00:42:47,125
probably used to that.

1227
00:42:47,664 --> 00:42:48,164
So,

1228
00:42:48,625 --> 00:42:50,224
that that will be very expensive. We figured

1229
00:42:50,224 --> 00:42:51,905
out it would be probably about a hundred

1230
00:42:51,905 --> 00:42:53,045
dollars a person

1231
00:42:53,824 --> 00:42:56,244
to get them there and back and

1232
00:42:56,704 --> 00:42:59,380
including helping them if they if they need

1233
00:42:59,380 --> 00:43:01,480
help with emergency passport or

1234
00:43:02,099 --> 00:43:03,859
the whatever so that they're not because some

1235
00:43:03,859 --> 00:43:05,139
of them are so poor that that would

1236
00:43:05,139 --> 00:43:06,359
never happen. So,

1237
00:43:06,820 --> 00:43:07,719
anyway, we're,

1238
00:43:08,739 --> 00:43:10,340
that's what we're looking at right now. So

1239
00:43:10,340 --> 00:43:12,099
it's not a lot. It it'll be a

1240
00:43:12,099 --> 00:43:14,065
pretty simple trip. And then

1241
00:43:14,445 --> 00:43:16,305
if they come back and get their endowments

1242
00:43:16,365 --> 00:43:18,525
or their temple recommend to do their endowments

1243
00:43:18,525 --> 00:43:19,025
or,

1244
00:43:19,565 --> 00:43:21,724
get families and then get families sealed, whatever,

1245
00:43:21,724 --> 00:43:23,565
the church actually has a fund that helps

1246
00:43:23,565 --> 00:43:24,305
them go,

1247
00:43:25,005 --> 00:43:27,119
get their their first time endowment. So that

1248
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:28,639
was really cool to find that out that

1249
00:43:28,639 --> 00:43:30,960
they they they have that, which is great.

1250
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,599
So Yeah. So, hopefully, this trip will sort

1251
00:43:33,599 --> 00:43:35,119
of put them on that path or in

1252
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:37,679
that mindset of of getting to the temple.

1253
00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:39,679
It will speed it up for sure. There's

1254
00:43:39,679 --> 00:43:40,420
no doubt.

1255
00:43:41,034 --> 00:43:43,514
So is there a specific number of, like,

1256
00:43:43,514 --> 00:43:45,434
people that you're trying to get there or

1257
00:43:45,434 --> 00:43:47,835
a number of buses or I mean, there's

1258
00:43:48,474 --> 00:43:50,235
are a lot of people aware of it

1259
00:43:50,235 --> 00:43:52,394
wanna join or I give us the numbers

1260
00:43:52,394 --> 00:43:53,934
as far as what you're aiming for.

1261
00:43:54,539 --> 00:43:57,360
They're they're aware. The missionaries are working

1262
00:43:57,739 --> 00:43:58,780
in in both these,

1263
00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:02,219
towns where we have the the branches, Arusha

1264
00:44:02,219 --> 00:44:02,960
and Moshi.

1265
00:44:03,660 --> 00:44:04,160
And

1266
00:44:04,780 --> 00:44:05,099
they

1267
00:44:05,579 --> 00:44:06,400
we have

1268
00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:07,280
investigators

1269
00:44:07,820 --> 00:44:09,635
signed up. We have,

1270
00:44:11,454 --> 00:44:13,295
you know, mostly members, but a lot of

1271
00:44:13,295 --> 00:44:15,875
investigators, we invite told them to invite their

1272
00:44:15,934 --> 00:44:18,515
their neighbors if they're interested in the gospel.

1273
00:44:19,135 --> 00:44:21,599
So it's helping the missionaries with work. It's

1274
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:24,019
just put a little bit of energy into

1275
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:25,059
the whole thing.

1276
00:44:25,599 --> 00:44:26,079
And,

1277
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,800
is there a certain like,

1278
00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:30,960
I imagine each bus, I don't know, the

1279
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,200
typical bus here holds about 40 people. I

1280
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,200
mean, is that what you're looking at? That's

1281
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:36,340
probably about it.

1282
00:44:38,425 --> 00:44:40,284
Well, when I was there two weeks ago,

1283
00:44:40,505 --> 00:44:42,664
this bus passed me, and there was three

1284
00:44:42,664 --> 00:44:44,824
people in the one bucket seat of the

1285
00:44:44,824 --> 00:44:46,984
passing Jira upfront. You know, three people setting

1286
00:44:46,984 --> 00:44:47,484
us.

1287
00:44:47,784 --> 00:44:49,864
So these guys are used to loading in.

1288
00:44:49,864 --> 00:44:52,204
We're we don't wanna do that to them,

1289
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:54,250
but we're probably looking at

1290
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:57,109
10 buses or so. We get a 50

1291
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:58,570
people. We could have 200.

1292
00:45:00,230 --> 00:45:01,130
We could put

1293
00:45:01,670 --> 00:45:03,909
most of these bus sizes, you could probably

1294
00:45:03,909 --> 00:45:06,250
put 25 comfortably on it.

1295
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:07,130
So,

1296
00:45:07,885 --> 00:45:09,805
we may have to get a little more

1297
00:45:09,805 --> 00:45:11,325
cramped, and then we'll have one of us

1298
00:45:11,325 --> 00:45:13,405
on each of the buses. And, you know,

1299
00:45:13,405 --> 00:45:15,325
we'll do some teaching. We'll let them teach

1300
00:45:15,325 --> 00:45:17,325
us. We'll sing a lot of songs, and

1301
00:45:17,325 --> 00:45:18,765
it'll be kind of fun. So if anybody

1302
00:45:18,765 --> 00:45:19,965
wants to come and go, you can. That'd

1303
00:45:19,965 --> 00:45:22,180
be great. Nice. Awesome. And then and then

1304
00:45:22,180 --> 00:45:23,559
we'll we'll go into

1305
00:45:24,099 --> 00:45:26,119
there and meet Molly with his,

1306
00:45:27,539 --> 00:45:30,119
family, and the 70 will,

1307
00:45:30,660 --> 00:45:32,039
help us go through there

1308
00:45:32,340 --> 00:45:33,719
with him. And

1309
00:45:34,204 --> 00:45:37,324
he's bringing his choir who are unbelievable. If

1310
00:45:37,324 --> 00:45:39,085
you wanna look up the Mollies choir, and

1311
00:45:39,085 --> 00:45:40,684
we're gonna have them sing out on the

1312
00:45:40,684 --> 00:45:41,505
temple grounds.

1313
00:45:42,125 --> 00:45:44,445
It's gonna be kinda cool. So Awesome. Well,

1314
00:45:44,445 --> 00:45:46,525
that's exciting. I I hope you'll send and

1315
00:45:46,525 --> 00:45:48,525
share some pictures of of the event things.

1316
00:45:48,525 --> 00:45:50,059
And like I said, I think,

1317
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:51,800
we this is why I wanna get the

1318
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,039
episode out as soon as possible is we

1319
00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:56,039
as a Leading Saints organization would love to

1320
00:45:56,039 --> 00:45:58,200
facilitate some of that. So we're going to

1321
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,219
put a link in the show notes that'll,

1322
00:46:00,519 --> 00:46:02,914
point to a specific form. And,

1323
00:46:03,614 --> 00:46:05,695
obviously, all donations through there is coming through

1324
00:46:05,695 --> 00:46:07,855
Leading Saints, so it's tax deductible. And then

1325
00:46:07,855 --> 00:46:10,015
we will pass all each one of those

1326
00:46:10,015 --> 00:46:11,954
dollars onto this effort of getting

1327
00:46:12,255 --> 00:46:13,554
as as many of these

1328
00:46:14,429 --> 00:46:16,909
awesome Latter day Saints to experience the temple

1329
00:46:16,909 --> 00:46:19,710
and get in the mindset of of, engaging

1330
00:46:19,710 --> 00:46:21,389
further with the the doctor there and the

1331
00:46:21,389 --> 00:46:23,010
temple and the their own,

1332
00:46:23,630 --> 00:46:25,569
ordinances that can happen there. So,

1333
00:46:26,190 --> 00:46:27,710
yeah, this is would be fun to to

1334
00:46:27,710 --> 00:46:29,730
partner on and Yeah. And make happen.

1335
00:46:30,614 --> 00:46:34,215
That is very exciting and very we're very,

1336
00:46:34,215 --> 00:46:34,954
very grateful.

1337
00:46:35,574 --> 00:46:37,655
Awesome. Very cool. Well, I think I think

1338
00:46:37,655 --> 00:46:38,934
this is great. I think it,

1339
00:46:39,894 --> 00:46:40,715
there there's

1340
00:46:41,494 --> 00:46:43,335
some good energy behind this and that we

1341
00:46:43,335 --> 00:46:45,940
can maybe help some saints in in Africa,

1342
00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:48,079
and and what a wonderful effort that that

1343
00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:50,159
will be. Well, let me first ask you

1344
00:46:50,159 --> 00:46:51,760
this question before I ask my last question

1345
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,000
is if people wanted to learn more about

1346
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,275
you, about your coaching, about if they if

1347
00:46:56,275 --> 00:46:58,934
they're they feel like a sideline, single adult

1348
00:46:58,994 --> 00:47:00,755
that just need someone to talk to, where

1349
00:47:00,755 --> 00:47:02,755
would you where would you send them? I,

1350
00:47:03,315 --> 00:47:05,235
I'm a life coach and a trainer. So

1351
00:47:05,235 --> 00:47:07,795
faithbasedlifecoachingacademy.com

1352
00:47:07,795 --> 00:47:10,295
is the website for my life coaching.

1353
00:47:11,730 --> 00:47:12,630
And the,

1354
00:47:14,050 --> 00:47:15,590
books that I wrote

1355
00:47:15,890 --> 00:47:19,730
are on Amazon, Why Not Me and Breaking

1356
00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:21,190
the Oaks That Bind Us.

1357
00:47:21,890 --> 00:47:23,269
Hearts and Hands for Humanity

1358
00:47:23,809 --> 00:47:24,630
is the

1359
00:47:25,414 --> 00:47:27,914
organization that we're doing this temple trip with.

1360
00:47:28,534 --> 00:47:30,695
Awesome. Perfect. And last question I have for

1361
00:47:30,695 --> 00:47:32,135
you is as you reflect on your time

1362
00:47:32,135 --> 00:47:34,135
as a leader, how has being a leader

1363
00:47:34,135 --> 00:47:36,054
helped you become a better follower of Jesus

1364
00:47:36,054 --> 00:47:36,554
Christ?

1365
00:47:37,335 --> 00:47:37,574
I

1366
00:47:39,289 --> 00:47:41,690
in so many ways, and I'm so grateful

1367
00:47:41,690 --> 00:47:43,929
for the leadership opportunities so that I could

1368
00:47:43,929 --> 00:47:44,429
be

1369
00:47:44,730 --> 00:47:46,269
a better follower. I,

1370
00:47:46,889 --> 00:47:47,869
even if they

1371
00:47:48,409 --> 00:47:50,989
pass around something for a Relief Society activity,

1372
00:47:51,289 --> 00:47:51,949
I know

1373
00:47:52,250 --> 00:47:53,949
the time they put in, I know,

1374
00:47:55,134 --> 00:47:56,914
their hopes for this and

1375
00:47:57,454 --> 00:47:59,875
I'm in. Like, I wanna be in.

1376
00:48:00,654 --> 00:48:01,474
And I think

1377
00:48:02,815 --> 00:48:05,534
recognizing that people can look really good at

1378
00:48:05,534 --> 00:48:06,114
at church

1379
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:07,780
and really good

1380
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,980
when you see them out and that

1381
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,679
being a leader, you you've got to see

1382
00:48:13,679 --> 00:48:14,900
that so many people

1383
00:48:15,359 --> 00:48:16,099
well, everyone

1384
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:17,460
bears

1385
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,059
burdens and struggles.

1386
00:48:20,094 --> 00:48:22,035
And so I look at people

1387
00:48:23,135 --> 00:48:23,635
in,

1388
00:48:25,295 --> 00:48:26,515
in a different way,

1389
00:48:26,974 --> 00:48:28,195
like not

1390
00:48:28,735 --> 00:48:31,375
not having expectations of them in their life,

1391
00:48:31,375 --> 00:48:32,275
knowing that

1392
00:48:32,815 --> 00:48:34,355
they've they've all got a story

1393
00:48:34,690 --> 00:48:35,190
and

1394
00:48:35,730 --> 00:48:37,989
they all could use an arm around them.

1395
00:48:38,130 --> 00:48:38,630
And,

1396
00:48:40,610 --> 00:48:43,329
so yes, I'm grateful. I'm grateful that I

1397
00:48:43,329 --> 00:48:44,769
was able to be a leader so that

1398
00:48:44,769 --> 00:48:47,030
I can be a better follower and

1399
00:48:47,565 --> 00:48:49,505
be a better support, and be,

1400
00:48:51,244 --> 00:48:52,704
the person that looks around

1401
00:48:53,085 --> 00:48:53,585
for

1402
00:48:54,045 --> 00:48:55,425
something to do to help.

1403
00:48:56,764 --> 00:48:58,684
Just is so appreciated as a leader to

1404
00:48:58,684 --> 00:49:01,269
have those, you know, they say this STP,

1405
00:49:01,329 --> 00:49:03,170
same 10 people, and it's like, I want

1406
00:49:03,170 --> 00:49:04,230
to be one of those

1407
00:49:04,849 --> 00:49:06,929
that can show up for them, to support

1408
00:49:06,929 --> 00:49:07,429
them.

1409
00:49:19,815 --> 00:49:22,635
And that concludes this How I Lead interview.

1410
00:49:22,855 --> 00:49:24,775
I hope you enjoyed it. And, I would

1411
00:49:24,775 --> 00:49:26,534
ask you, could you take a minute and

1412
00:49:26,534 --> 00:49:28,454
drop this link in an email, on social

1413
00:49:28,454 --> 00:49:30,579
media, in a text, wherever it makes the

1414
00:49:30,579 --> 00:49:32,260
most sense, and share it with somebody who

1415
00:49:32,260 --> 00:49:35,219
could relate to this experience. And this is

1416
00:49:35,219 --> 00:49:37,460
how we develop as leaders, just hearing what

1417
00:49:37,460 --> 00:49:39,380
the other guy's doing, trying some things out,

1418
00:49:39,380 --> 00:49:40,359
testing, adjusting

1419
00:49:40,739 --> 00:49:41,859
for your area. And,

1420
00:49:42,575 --> 00:49:44,815
that's where great leadership's discovered. Right? So we

1421
00:49:44,815 --> 00:49:46,815
would love to have you, share this with,

1422
00:49:47,135 --> 00:49:49,954
somebody in this calling or a related calling.

1423
00:49:50,095 --> 00:49:52,015
And that would be great. And also if

1424
00:49:52,015 --> 00:49:52,894
you know somebody,

1425
00:49:53,215 --> 00:49:55,215
any type of leader who would be a

1426
00:49:55,215 --> 00:49:57,315
fantastic guest on the, how I lead segment,

1427
00:49:57,890 --> 00:50:00,550
reach out to us. Go to leadingsaints.org/contact.

1428
00:50:00,849 --> 00:50:03,170
Maybe send this in individual an email letting

1429
00:50:03,170 --> 00:50:05,190
them know that you're going to be suggesting

1430
00:50:05,250 --> 00:50:07,489
their name for this interview. We'll reach out

1431
00:50:07,489 --> 00:50:08,530
to them and,

1432
00:50:09,010 --> 00:50:10,130
see if we can line them up. So,

1433
00:50:10,130 --> 00:50:12,550
again, go to leadingsaints.org/contact,

1434
00:50:12,675 --> 00:50:14,535
and there you can submit all the information

1435
00:50:14,914 --> 00:50:16,594
and let us know. And maybe they will

1436
00:50:16,594 --> 00:50:18,355
be on a future how I lead segment

1437
00:50:18,355 --> 00:50:19,974
on the Leading Saints podcast.

1438
00:50:20,675 --> 00:50:23,255
Remember, to watch the interview about scrupulosity,

1439
00:50:23,875 --> 00:50:26,035
go to leadingsaints.org/14

1440
00:50:26,035 --> 00:50:28,380
for free access to the Mentally Healthy Saints

1441
00:50:28,619 --> 00:50:29,119
virtual

1442
00:50:33,259 --> 00:50:33,759
library.

1443
00:50:34,940 --> 00:50:37,519
It came as a result of the position

1444
00:50:37,579 --> 00:50:40,485
of leadership which was imposed upon us

1445
00:50:41,045 --> 00:50:43,684
by the God of heaven who brought forth

1446
00:50:43,684 --> 00:50:47,144
a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

1447
00:50:47,605 --> 00:50:50,965
And when the declaration was made concerning the

1448
00:50:50,965 --> 00:50:53,845
own and only true and living church upon

1449
00:50:53,845 --> 00:50:55,224
the face of the earth,

1450
00:50:55,739 --> 00:50:58,400
We were immediately put in a position of

1451
00:50:58,460 --> 00:50:58,960
loneliness,

1452
00:50:59,420 --> 00:51:01,039
the loneliness of leadership

1453
00:51:01,820 --> 00:51:04,960
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,

1454
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:08,380
and to which we must face up with

1455
00:51:08,380 --> 00:51:09,920
boldness and courage

1456
00:51:10,318 --> 00:51:10,818
and

1457
00:51:11,301 --> 00:51:11,801
ability.