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Okay. So you're here for some great church

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leadership content.

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The podcast is great, but there's also another

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piece of content you need to be enjoying

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each week. It is the Leading Saints email

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newsletter.

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Now I get it. Email newsletters feel so

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2,006,

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you know, but it isn't as old fashioned

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as you might think. It's actually one of

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the most popular pieces of content that Leading

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Saints produces.

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Each week, I share a unique leadership thought

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that can only be found in the newsletter.

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I keep it short and sweet. Most can

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read it in less than five minutes. And

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then we share with you recent content you

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might have missed, throwback episodes, and Leading Saints

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events that happen more often than you might

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anticipate.

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If you want to make sure you are

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Saints in your inbox by going to leadingsaints.org/14

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or click the link in the show notes.

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I got an email the other day from

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an individual. I forget where he is in

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the world, but he says, Kurt, I love

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Leading Saints, and I listen to it every

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time I'm on the treadmill.

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And then one time during an interview, he

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heard that Leading Saints has a YouTube channel

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and, like, all the interviews,

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at least the vast majority of them are

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video recorded and you can watch the video

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recording of the podcast episodes. I'm like, yeah,

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man. Get on there. Go subscribe on YouTube

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to Leading Saints, and you can get a

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visual of the interview and not just an

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audio experience.

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And even if you're not a big YouTube

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user, do us a favor because this actually

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helps us gain more reach and

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expose our content to individuals who could really

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benefit from it, leaders around the world. So

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regardless if you are on YouTube a lot

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or not, go to YouTube and search for

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Leading Saints, find the familiar red logo, and

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just subscribe. Even if you don't plan to

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view every episode there, that's gonna help us,

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gain a larger audience and more reach, dial

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in the algorithm,

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and, we'll start showing up on leaders feeds

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that they didn't know how much they're missing

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here at Leading Saints. So head on over

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to YouTube, search for Leading Saints, and subscribe

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to our channel, and leave a comment every

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once in a while, but be nice.

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Welcome back to the leading saints podcast. This

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is a really this is a fun discussion

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to have, and I'm glad you you'd experienced

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it. I hope you'll share it, but maybe

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more of an interfaith type of approach where

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I talk with rabbi Haim, who is the

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rabbi for the Chabad, the Jewish Chabad here

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in Utah County.

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Obviously, a place that is

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very Latter day Saint and what is it

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like being Jewish here as far as leading

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the Jewish people in this part of the

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world,

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the experience

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like and there there's so many similarities, right,

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between our faith and their faith, from health

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codes to it seems like there's a lot

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of laws and commandments and covenants and all

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those things. Right? It was just fun to

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sit down with Rabbi Chaim and and go

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through these things as far as he is

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processing the world of religion from how he

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lives his faith, why he does conversion, testimony,

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all those things and man, I could have

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gone on for four hours so we'll definitely

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get him back in the studio at a

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future day and continue our discussion but you'll

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enjoy it. Here's my interview with rabbi Chaim.

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Alright. A little I don't know what the

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best term is. Unorthodox,

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but very orthodox,

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interview to have is with the rabbi of

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Utah County, Rabbi Chaim. Did I say that

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right? Said it perfectly.

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What's your full name? How do you like?

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My name is Chaim Zippel. No middle name.

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Zippel. Is is middle name not a middle

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name is not a Jewish thing or just

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not a I'm the only one in my

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family without a middle name. Oh, wow. Nice.

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I like to tell people we are a

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poor family. We can only afford one name.

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Nice.

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And you are I I mean, how do

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you describe your position and what you run

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and

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all those things?

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So my wife and I are co directors

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of Chabad of Utah County,

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which is a grassroots nonprofit

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that works with establishing

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a home for Jewish experiences in Utah County,

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which means first and foremost, a place where

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Jewish people that are moving in. We know

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that people are moving in from all over

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California,

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everywhere

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for jobs, for the beautiful

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family life here. Yeah. So the Jewish folks

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that are heading in and we wanna have

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a place to gather together as a community

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or to learn more about their faith, to

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to try to grow, to try to learn

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first and foremost, but also to be a

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presence of Judaism for everybody. Yeah. I shared

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with you. I just came a minute ago

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from speaking at BYU.

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Zero people, as far as I know, in

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that class were Jewish. Mhmm. But people wanna

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learn. They wanna be educated, and we try

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to fill that need. Nice. So if you're

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a Jewish person in Utah County, like, do

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you run the synagogue and things like that?

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Or is that that's all encompassed in that?

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Yeah. So I think where Judaism

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might be a little bit different than some

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other faiths in Utah is that prayer

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is the thing services,

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synagogue, words like that are the things that

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you'll tend to see will have the least

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attendance. Because

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as much as everybody prays, that could be

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more of a personal

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thing that you do on your own.

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The prayers, like on Sabbath and daily, that's

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often one of the things that you end

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up doing last. Just because it's not the

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most pleasant thing in the world. Right? No

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one's like, I'm dying to go pray in

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synagogue today. Mhmm. Maybe if the rabbi had

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a better cantorial voice.

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But it's because

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you wanna do the social things. Right? It's

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like, oh, there's a holiday going on. So

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let me go learn about the holiday while

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dressing up in costumes, while doing fun activities,

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while having fun entertainment.

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Those are like, the events are always the

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biggest. And then as people continue to grow,

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continue to learn more, continue to come for

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classes, so it's like, okay. I would love

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to come for services. Mhmm. But yeah. So

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we have we don't yet have just it's

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a funding thing. Eventually, we'll get there. I

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don't yet have a full time building, so

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everything's out of our home. But every or

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I would say most Friday nights, our basement

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gets transformed into a synagogue. We have men

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and women that come for Friday night services

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and whenever else Saturday morning, sometimes whenever else

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appropriate. Yeah. So, like, as a Latter day

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Saint or as a Christian, I may move

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to a new area and that's sort of

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where my mind goes. I need to find

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a church to attend, but that may not

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be the the first thing that they're looking

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for. They're more looking for the community of

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of Jews. Is that Yeah. Just

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because being all in with Judaism,

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keeping everything is very challenging, which is why,

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like, very often you'll meet people in town

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here that are not Jewish, and they'll say,

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like, oh, what's your community? Is your community

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Orthodox? Is your community reforms different, like, labels

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in Judaism? And I say, our community is

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everything. Like, if you wanna know how many

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people look crazy like I do, it's just

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me. It's a party of one,

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a family of one.

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But people are on all different levels of

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their Jewish experience.

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The one thing that I think that we

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all try to have in common is that

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we're all on an upwards trajectory. We're trying

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to be doing more and growing.

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So

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while I pray three times a day, not

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everybody's holding there yet. Yet. Mhmm. But even

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if you're not holding there yet, you absolutely

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wanna come experience the holidays. You wanna experience

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community. You wanna you wanna grow together. Yeah.

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And so with the maybe ask you, what's

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your background as far as coming to Utah

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and where you're at now? How did how

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did this journey lead here? So I grew

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up in Salt Lake. My dad is Italian,

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originally from Milan. My mom is Canadian, originally

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from Toronto.

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They got married and naturally decided that a

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fair middle ground normal place to live is

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Utah.

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Naturally. Sure. There's a the movement that we're

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part of is called Chabad.

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The Rebbe, who was the leader of the

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Chabad movement, started this initiative

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of sending couples

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to every place possible

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so that no matter where a Jewish person

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might find themselves, they have an outlet. They

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have a place where they can go and

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experience meaningful Jewish experiences.

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Yeah. So when my parents moved out in

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1992,

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it was a lot saturated.

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So because, like, there were not only states,

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like, there were chunks of the country that

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were not yet represented. So they were going

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through a few different options. They were looking

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at Puerto Rico. They were looking at Denmark,

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and they were looking at looking at Utah.

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And different things fell into place, and Utah

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was what was decided. So they got a

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blessing from the Rebbe, from the leader of

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the Chabad movement to come and launch Chabad

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in Salt Lake City, Chabad in Utah, which

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didn't only serve the whole state. Like, it

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was serving

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Montana, Idaho, Wyoming. Like, there was no one

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in any of these states.

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And they built a it's still not, New

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York or Brooklyn or Miami or Los Angeles

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here or Israel, but there's a nice amount

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of Jewish infrastructure. There's some synagogues. There's Chabad

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centers. There's a couple of eateries.

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My parents built all that from scratch. So

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I grew up here. I grew up in

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Salt Lake City in Sugar

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House. And and there there are six of

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us. I have five siblings. Each of us

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sort of took a different

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perspective.

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Like, I had a couple siblings

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that were, like, absolutely no matter what, like,

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I'm moving back here to do this. Like,

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I want to continue this mission. This is

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where I wanna be. This is what I

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gotta do. I had some some things that

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were, like, absolutely not. And they're I like

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to say some of us are normal. They

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went out and they got jobs. They're living

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in regular places like,

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Atlanta, Georgia and Miami, Florida,

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going to work every day of nine to

265
00:09:20,589 --> 00:09:22,350
five. I was sort of in between where

266
00:09:22,350 --> 00:09:24,269
I was like, I appreciated and I always

267
00:09:24,269 --> 00:09:25,949
felt good about the work that was being

268
00:09:25,949 --> 00:09:27,789
done and I loved being part of it.

269
00:09:27,789 --> 00:09:29,725
But I was like, if there's an like,

270
00:09:29,725 --> 00:09:31,245
when my parents moved, I looked at it

271
00:09:31,245 --> 00:09:32,544
like there was a real need.

272
00:09:32,924 --> 00:09:34,924
Now a lot of communities, a lot of

273
00:09:34,924 --> 00:09:37,164
the bigger communities are spoken for, and there's

274
00:09:37,164 --> 00:09:38,924
a lot of people looking to go. So

275
00:09:38,924 --> 00:09:40,845
I was like, if there's a need, count

276
00:09:40,845 --> 00:09:43,089
me in. But for me to be eager

277
00:09:43,089 --> 00:09:45,490
to go and to force an opportunity based

278
00:09:45,490 --> 00:09:48,070
off my desire to go, no. Not necessarily.

279
00:09:48,209 --> 00:09:49,809
Mhmm. When I left, I left when I

280
00:09:49,809 --> 00:09:51,730
was 13, 14 to go to get education

281
00:09:51,730 --> 00:09:53,169
in Jewish schools. I was in California. I

282
00:09:53,169 --> 00:09:55,044
was in Pennsylvania. I was in Brooklyn. I

283
00:09:55,044 --> 00:09:55,865
ended up

284
00:09:56,245 --> 00:09:59,044
working in my, low twenties in schools in

285
00:09:59,044 --> 00:10:01,865
Jewish schools. My role was as a program,

286
00:10:02,085 --> 00:10:04,825
like, extracurricular programs. And I saw,

287
00:10:05,205 --> 00:10:06,504
like, how much

288
00:10:06,965 --> 00:10:09,790
energy and how impactful, like, these extra programs

289
00:10:09,790 --> 00:10:11,629
were that you add in these schools that

290
00:10:11,629 --> 00:10:13,309
I didn't grow up with. So I was

291
00:10:13,309 --> 00:10:14,590
like, even if my wife and I are

292
00:10:14,590 --> 00:10:17,309
crazy enough to decide to move somewhere that

293
00:10:17,309 --> 00:10:19,389
doesn't have necessarily the kosher op the food

294
00:10:19,389 --> 00:10:20,445
options and the

295
00:10:20,764 --> 00:10:23,245
entertainment options and the schooling options. Like, maybe

296
00:10:23,245 --> 00:10:25,404
we're crazy enough, but can we make that

297
00:10:25,404 --> 00:10:26,625
decision for our kids?

298
00:10:27,004 --> 00:10:28,625
Because I knew that I grew up without

299
00:10:28,845 --> 00:10:30,285
any other Jewish kids. I mean, I would

300
00:10:30,285 --> 00:10:32,924
say, any other orthodox kids, like, kids like

301
00:10:32,924 --> 00:10:34,845
me to hang out with. Yeah. Like minded

302
00:10:34,845 --> 00:10:35,345
kids.

303
00:10:35,669 --> 00:10:36,870
So it wasn't something that I was, like,

304
00:10:36,870 --> 00:10:39,289
absolutely gonna happen, but the opportunity

305
00:10:39,909 --> 00:10:42,549
continued to it was just showing that there

306
00:10:42,549 --> 00:10:45,110
was a need here repeatedly. Like, my father

307
00:10:45,110 --> 00:10:47,750
has been coming down to Utah County since

308
00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:49,875
almost the first year he opened just because

309
00:10:49,875 --> 00:10:51,955
there's a large amount of treatment centers here

310
00:10:51,955 --> 00:10:54,514
in Provo, in Spanish Fork, and Utah County

311
00:10:54,514 --> 00:10:56,715
for kids from all around the world Mhmm.

312
00:10:56,835 --> 00:10:57,335
Literally

313
00:10:57,795 --> 00:11:00,355
that have all different types of therapy that

314
00:11:00,355 --> 00:11:02,709
they need. Kids at risk mostly. So my

315
00:11:02,709 --> 00:11:05,110
dad's been serviced servicing these centers for years.

316
00:11:05,110 --> 00:11:08,809
And as he Wednesday, which is today, is

317
00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:11,830
his day. I know that my dad is

318
00:11:11,830 --> 00:11:13,750
not in the office on Wednesday. Mhmm. Wednesday

319
00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:15,269
is the one day every single week for

320
00:11:15,367 --> 00:11:16,665
I don't know how many years now that

321
00:11:16,665 --> 00:11:18,264
my dad travels down to Utah County, and

322
00:11:18,264 --> 00:11:20,264
he literally just drives from center to center

323
00:11:20,264 --> 00:11:22,264
to center to center. Mhmm. So And he's

324
00:11:22,264 --> 00:11:25,165
looking for, like, Jewish individuals who he can

325
00:11:25,225 --> 00:11:27,865
minister to or connect with? Or So he

326
00:11:27,865 --> 00:11:29,625
gets the first time you got a call,

327
00:11:29,625 --> 00:11:31,594
someone calls, they're like, is this the rabbi?

328
00:11:31,594 --> 00:11:33,643
Yeah. This is a Jewish kid in Provo,

329
00:11:33,643 --> 00:11:35,691
Utah. Jewish kid doing in Provo, Utah. And

330
00:11:35,691 --> 00:11:37,740
he drives down to the center to go

331
00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:39,789
visit this child, to speak, to be a

332
00:11:39,789 --> 00:11:42,094
friendly face, to be a an ear, to

333
00:11:42,094 --> 00:11:44,142
listen to this child, teenager. And my dad

334
00:11:44,142 --> 00:11:45,935
says, like, I couldn't believe there's Jewish kids

335
00:11:45,935 --> 00:11:47,055
here. And the kid's like, what are you

336
00:11:47,055 --> 00:11:50,095
talking about? Jewish, Jewish, Jewish, Jewish, just pointing

337
00:11:50,095 --> 00:11:52,575
around. Unfortunately, the kids come from all over.

338
00:11:52,575 --> 00:11:53,075
So

339
00:11:53,535 --> 00:11:54,894
he tries as much as possible to be

340
00:11:54,894 --> 00:11:56,975
able to visit these children and to provide

341
00:11:56,975 --> 00:11:58,335
for them, to teach them a little bit,

342
00:11:58,335 --> 00:11:59,789
to learn with them, to to be a

343
00:11:59,789 --> 00:12:02,269
friendly face and and someone that cares. Yeah.

344
00:12:02,269 --> 00:12:04,190
So he's doing these weekly trips, and he's

345
00:12:04,190 --> 00:12:06,350
seeing how the need here is growing. There's,

346
00:12:06,350 --> 00:12:07,710
like, more and more and more people calling

347
00:12:07,710 --> 00:12:09,470
me, like, hey. I live there. And by

348
00:12:09,470 --> 00:12:11,950
the way, I could just well, skip ahead

349
00:12:11,950 --> 00:12:13,809
a minute. I could tell you being here,

350
00:12:14,235 --> 00:12:16,394
like, how many people we find now that

351
00:12:16,394 --> 00:12:17,754
are like, oh, yeah. I moved here four

352
00:12:17,754 --> 00:12:19,455
years ago, five years ago from California.

353
00:12:19,835 --> 00:12:21,034
When I got here, I looked. I know

354
00:12:21,034 --> 00:12:22,315
there's a center in Salt Lake. It was

355
00:12:22,315 --> 00:12:24,154
too far, so I just went to hiding.

356
00:12:24,154 --> 00:12:25,514
Like, I just Mhmm. You know, it was

357
00:12:25,514 --> 00:12:27,360
too far, too much of commitment. So my

358
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,120
dad started seeing that need and it kept

359
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,679
presenting itself to us. And we felt that

360
00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,519
this was the move that was necessary for

361
00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:35,279
us. I'll mention my wife was really the

362
00:12:35,279 --> 00:12:37,200
driving factor in that one, and she didn't

363
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:38,720
grow up crazy like I did. She was

364
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,375
born in Israel and she lived in Brooklyn.

365
00:12:40,375 --> 00:12:41,654
She went to a Jewish school every single

366
00:12:41,654 --> 00:12:42,934
day that was a block from her house.

367
00:12:42,934 --> 00:12:44,934
She grew up with a kosher bodega. For

368
00:12:44,934 --> 00:12:46,375
those who are not from Brooklyn, a bodega

369
00:12:46,375 --> 00:12:48,134
is just a store that they decided to

370
00:12:48,134 --> 00:12:49,575
give a new word to for no reason.

371
00:12:49,575 --> 00:12:50,075
But

372
00:12:50,534 --> 00:12:52,534
the kosher bodega on one block and and

373
00:12:52,534 --> 00:12:54,529
another one on the next block, And she

374
00:12:54,529 --> 00:12:56,929
was like, absolutely. We gotta do this. So

375
00:12:56,929 --> 00:12:58,370
she grew up in a place that you'd

376
00:12:58,370 --> 00:13:00,289
say wasn't as orthodox as what your your

377
00:13:00,289 --> 00:13:01,970
background. Is that what you're saying? Way more.

378
00:13:01,970 --> 00:13:04,129
Oh, way more. Okay. She grew up every

379
00:13:04,129 --> 00:13:06,735
inch of her life was there were couple

380
00:13:06,735 --> 00:13:09,455
hundred Jewish kids in her class alone. Thousands

381
00:13:09,455 --> 00:13:11,375
of You'd expected her to wanna go back

382
00:13:11,375 --> 00:13:14,035
that kind of a area. Right? Yeah. Wow.

383
00:13:14,414 --> 00:13:17,154
You mentioned this, the Haban movement.

384
00:13:17,535 --> 00:13:18,884
Is that because, you know, we come from

385
00:13:18,884 --> 00:13:20,035
a very institutionalized

386
00:13:20,370 --> 00:13:22,210
church where there's, you know, a next layer.

387
00:13:22,210 --> 00:13:23,330
You can talk to this guy, and if

388
00:13:23,330 --> 00:13:24,870
you don't know, talk to the next guys.

389
00:13:25,009 --> 00:13:27,409
But, is that similar to I mean, how

390
00:13:27,409 --> 00:13:29,089
would you describe that movement, or what is

391
00:13:29,089 --> 00:13:31,350
it? Is it more institutionalized or more

392
00:13:31,889 --> 00:13:34,004
more open that way? If I'm understanding your

393
00:13:34,004 --> 00:13:35,524
question correctly, let let me know based on

394
00:13:35,524 --> 00:13:36,584
the answer if I understood

395
00:13:37,004 --> 00:13:37,504
you.

396
00:13:37,924 --> 00:13:41,125
It's not really one large organization like you

397
00:13:41,125 --> 00:13:43,444
might compare to have the way the church

398
00:13:43,444 --> 00:13:45,845
functions. Like, very often, my dad had this,

399
00:13:45,845 --> 00:13:47,125
and I have this, and people will say,

400
00:13:47,125 --> 00:13:48,725
like, oh, it's so nice. Like, as if,

401
00:13:48,725 --> 00:13:51,100
like, corporate in New York gave you a

402
00:13:51,100 --> 00:13:52,460
seed money to go get started and they

403
00:13:52,460 --> 00:13:54,300
pay your salary and you're you're representing the

404
00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:54,800
company.

405
00:13:55,179 --> 00:13:57,580
Like, there is a centralized organization. So, like,

406
00:13:57,580 --> 00:13:59,340
you have to, you know, abide by certain

407
00:13:59,340 --> 00:14:01,200
rules to represent this organization

408
00:14:01,660 --> 00:14:03,894
and keep true to the mission. But, like,

409
00:14:03,894 --> 00:14:05,414
financially, you're a % on your own, and

410
00:14:05,414 --> 00:14:06,774
they're not, like, calling you being, like, hey,

411
00:14:06,774 --> 00:14:08,794
this month, we're all gonna do this. Mhmm.

412
00:14:09,014 --> 00:14:10,695
They're getting better at the sense that they're

413
00:14:10,695 --> 00:14:11,754
offering more resources

414
00:14:12,215 --> 00:14:15,414
just because common experiences are being had in

415
00:14:15,414 --> 00:14:18,299
5,000 different centers around the world. And everybody

416
00:14:18,299 --> 00:14:20,240
needs an idea for a holiday

417
00:14:20,540 --> 00:14:22,779
theme and that type of thing, some professional

418
00:14:22,779 --> 00:14:23,279
development,

419
00:14:23,740 --> 00:14:25,660
but each center sort of functions on their

420
00:14:25,660 --> 00:14:27,980
own. Mhmm. Now in every state, it works

421
00:14:27,980 --> 00:14:30,940
differently. Meaning, like, there's a head Chabad rabbi

422
00:14:30,940 --> 00:14:32,894
in every state. That's my dad in Utah.

423
00:14:32,894 --> 00:14:34,414
I always say, by the way, the rabbi

424
00:14:34,414 --> 00:14:36,274
in Park City, not related.

425
00:14:36,654 --> 00:14:39,375
Okay. Which is just reminding us Uh-huh. That

426
00:14:39,375 --> 00:14:41,375
it's not a family business. It's my dad

427
00:14:41,375 --> 00:14:43,294
always was looking for the most qualified person.

428
00:14:43,294 --> 00:14:45,315
It happened to be in a couple of

429
00:14:45,455 --> 00:14:45,955
experiences

430
00:14:46,460 --> 00:14:48,460
that was a relative. But, the rabbi in

431
00:14:48,460 --> 00:14:50,700
Park City is a reminder that it's not

432
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:51,980
always about that. My point is, I never

433
00:14:52,059 --> 00:14:54,860
so in some states, like, the rabbi in

434
00:14:54,860 --> 00:14:57,419
charge has, hey, we don't do x y

435
00:14:57,419 --> 00:14:58,940
z. When you wanna do x y z,

436
00:14:58,940 --> 00:15:00,804
these are the rules. And, like, there's also

437
00:15:00,804 --> 00:15:02,884
sometimes, like, very often we're we're fortunate, like,

438
00:15:02,884 --> 00:15:05,365
sometimes the main center will help a little

439
00:15:05,365 --> 00:15:06,964
bit with funding and definitely help get you

440
00:15:06,964 --> 00:15:08,565
off the off the ground. But in every

441
00:15:08,565 --> 00:15:10,245
state, it sort of works differently, but it's

442
00:15:10,245 --> 00:15:11,784
definitely not, like,

443
00:15:12,245 --> 00:15:12,745
system

444
00:15:13,205 --> 00:15:14,584
in such a way. Yeah.

445
00:15:14,949 --> 00:15:16,070
So when you say, you know, we don't

446
00:15:16,070 --> 00:15:17,669
do x y z, what are some examples

447
00:15:17,669 --> 00:15:19,429
of things that people would be looking for

448
00:15:19,429 --> 00:15:21,429
from you that maybe you you don't do?

449
00:15:21,429 --> 00:15:23,669
Or I don't know about that. It's more

450
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:26,649
so first of all, we don't deal with

451
00:15:26,789 --> 00:15:27,850
that in

452
00:15:28,284 --> 00:15:30,365
Utah. My dad is is pretty understanding and

453
00:15:30,365 --> 00:15:33,345
and helpful and in in all those ways.

454
00:15:33,565 --> 00:15:35,404
I know in one state where they have

455
00:15:35,404 --> 00:15:37,085
a lot of centers, it's a very Jewish

456
00:15:37,085 --> 00:15:40,125
populated state. The Lee Chabad rabbi there has

457
00:15:40,125 --> 00:15:41,105
different rules

458
00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:42,240
for events

459
00:15:42,620 --> 00:15:45,580
that correspond with Jewish law. Okay. Which means

460
00:15:45,580 --> 00:15:47,420
basically he has the the option where he

461
00:15:47,420 --> 00:15:48,559
could create policies

462
00:15:48,860 --> 00:15:50,620
or he could just let each center because

463
00:15:50,620 --> 00:15:53,180
they're self funded make their own decisions and

464
00:15:53,180 --> 00:15:54,080
they'll all eventually,

465
00:15:54,460 --> 00:15:56,220
at least we assume, end up abiding by

466
00:15:56,220 --> 00:15:57,040
Jewish law.

467
00:15:57,375 --> 00:15:57,875
But

468
00:15:58,254 --> 00:15:59,934
the rabbi in the state decided, no. I'm

469
00:15:59,934 --> 00:16:02,095
creating certain rules that we have to abide

470
00:16:02,095 --> 00:16:04,115
by even if they're a little bit beyond

471
00:16:04,335 --> 00:16:05,934
or in some very often, it's like, no.

472
00:16:05,934 --> 00:16:07,875
You guys just everyone has their

473
00:16:08,254 --> 00:16:10,654
rabbi rabbinical leadership that they'll speak with and

474
00:16:10,654 --> 00:16:12,415
make sure that they're falling in line with

475
00:16:12,415 --> 00:16:14,540
that. Yeah. And then just growing up in

476
00:16:14,540 --> 00:16:17,180
Utah, like, being in such a high density

477
00:16:17,180 --> 00:16:19,259
Latter day Saint world, like, what comes to

478
00:16:19,259 --> 00:16:21,340
mind? Like, what was that like, or was

479
00:16:21,340 --> 00:16:23,500
it hard to find that community? Did you

480
00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:25,660
find yourselves at, you know, youth nights at

481
00:16:25,660 --> 00:16:27,259
our churches or anything like that? Like, what

482
00:16:27,259 --> 00:16:28,725
what was it like growing up as a

483
00:16:28,725 --> 00:16:31,065
Jew, a very orthodox Jew in this area?

484
00:16:31,365 --> 00:16:34,004
So I three thoughts flew into my head.

485
00:16:34,004 --> 00:16:35,205
I'll see how many of them I remember

486
00:16:35,205 --> 00:16:37,764
to say. Alright. Number one, we did an

487
00:16:37,764 --> 00:16:39,845
event here. It was actually in Park City.

488
00:16:39,845 --> 00:16:40,804
I was helping arrange it. It was in

489
00:16:40,804 --> 00:16:42,725
Park City on December 25. There was a

490
00:16:42,725 --> 00:16:45,050
Hanukkah event. And the singer, who's a friend

491
00:16:45,050 --> 00:16:47,149
of mine, lands here, and he says

492
00:16:47,529 --> 00:16:48,649
he's like, I'm like he's like, I'm like,

493
00:16:48,649 --> 00:16:49,529
hey. What do you need? He's like, I'm

494
00:16:49,529 --> 00:16:51,210
a coffee snob. So I was like, so

495
00:16:51,210 --> 00:16:52,649
you're saying you don't want my Keurig? He's

496
00:16:52,649 --> 00:16:53,850
like, no. I don't first, I don't do

497
00:16:53,850 --> 00:16:55,769
foam cups. And second of all, I don't

498
00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:56,889
in a nice way, not in a good

499
00:16:56,889 --> 00:16:58,485
way. We're actually close. So he said I

500
00:16:58,485 --> 00:16:59,845
was just with him a couple days ago.

501
00:16:59,845 --> 00:17:02,024
So he says, let's find a coffee shop.

502
00:17:02,404 --> 00:17:04,345
So I said, Ellie, that's his first name.

503
00:17:04,644 --> 00:17:05,625
You're in Utah,

504
00:17:06,164 --> 00:17:08,585
and it's December 25.

505
00:17:08,884 --> 00:17:09,625
You have

506
00:17:10,005 --> 00:17:12,805
0% chance of finding an open coffee shop

507
00:17:12,805 --> 00:17:13,305
today.

508
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:16,390
Especially without bone cups. Right? So okay. Bone

509
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:16,890
cups.

510
00:17:17,349 --> 00:17:19,910
So he says, let's see. And he goes

511
00:17:19,910 --> 00:17:22,230
and he googles, and we find ourselves in

512
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:23,910
the heart of Salt Lake City at a

513
00:17:23,910 --> 00:17:26,664
coffee shop that's bustling on December 25. I

514
00:17:26,664 --> 00:17:28,105
use that to lead into my second point,

515
00:17:28,105 --> 00:17:30,445
and that is I'm all the time asked

516
00:17:30,664 --> 00:17:32,025
for as long as I can remember, like,

517
00:17:32,025 --> 00:17:33,785
what's it like living in Utah? Like, do

518
00:17:33,785 --> 00:17:36,445
you see Mormon people around? And I'm like,

519
00:17:36,904 --> 00:17:38,819
you know that they don't, like, have like,

520
00:17:38,980 --> 00:17:40,980
they they're not like us. They don't walk

521
00:17:40,980 --> 00:17:42,980
around with, like, these identifiers on their hats.

522
00:17:42,980 --> 00:17:44,819
So you know, like, that's a Mormon. Like

523
00:17:44,899 --> 00:17:47,700
Uh-huh. It's just it's regular people. So they're

524
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:49,139
like or like, okay. I'm coming to Utah.

525
00:17:49,139 --> 00:17:50,179
Let's see how many we can find. I'm

526
00:17:50,179 --> 00:17:52,440
like, what what are you looking for?

527
00:17:52,835 --> 00:17:54,775
Average people. So in that regard,

528
00:17:55,234 --> 00:17:57,075
it never was something that ever felt funny

529
00:17:57,075 --> 00:17:59,555
or felt different to me. I will say

530
00:17:59,634 --> 00:18:02,055
and I successfully remembered all three points. Nice.

531
00:18:02,194 --> 00:18:03,875
So I mentioned I just came from BYU.

532
00:18:03,875 --> 00:18:05,575
So one of the students asked

533
00:18:06,115 --> 00:18:08,509
he's like, have you ever had

534
00:18:08,809 --> 00:18:09,789
any antisemitism

535
00:18:10,090 --> 00:18:11,210
you had to deal with and how did

536
00:18:11,210 --> 00:18:11,950
you respond?

537
00:18:12,410 --> 00:18:14,170
So what I shared with this person, with

538
00:18:14,170 --> 00:18:14,830
a student,

539
00:18:15,289 --> 00:18:16,029
was that

540
00:18:16,490 --> 00:18:18,090
I always say, and this is true. I'm

541
00:18:18,090 --> 00:18:20,009
gonna make a disclaimer here. You might get

542
00:18:20,009 --> 00:18:21,944
some hate in your comments. Okay. This is

543
00:18:21,944 --> 00:18:23,945
true of Utah County. I wouldn't say this

544
00:18:23,945 --> 00:18:25,065
is true of all of Utah. This is

545
00:18:25,065 --> 00:18:26,585
true of Utah County. Sali County is their

546
00:18:26,585 --> 00:18:29,464
own their own rules. But Utah County, because

547
00:18:29,464 --> 00:18:32,184
of the the high density of religious people

548
00:18:32,184 --> 00:18:34,904
and religious families, it is probably the least

549
00:18:34,904 --> 00:18:35,404
antisemitic

550
00:18:35,784 --> 00:18:38,960
place on Earth. Wow. Like, everybody is loving

551
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,339
and caring. Mhmm.

552
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:41,200
Actually

553
00:18:41,519 --> 00:18:43,919
so after October 7, we did an event

554
00:18:43,919 --> 00:18:45,119
here for the whole community, not just for

555
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,119
the Jewish community, but in support of Israel.

556
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,460
And we we had these signs that say,

557
00:18:49,705 --> 00:18:51,705
Utah stands with Israel. I think it's what

558
00:18:51,705 --> 00:18:53,644
it said, something to that extent. And

559
00:18:54,184 --> 00:18:55,705
I put one in my lawn. I know

560
00:18:55,705 --> 00:18:57,305
a lot of it, like, politicians did, and

561
00:18:57,305 --> 00:18:58,265
a lot of friends did. I put one

562
00:18:58,265 --> 00:18:59,785
in my lawn. And we had, like, a

563
00:18:59,785 --> 00:19:00,684
crazy windstorm,

564
00:19:01,305 --> 00:19:04,150
and the leg on it snapped. And I

565
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:05,190
didn't get a chance to fix it right

566
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:07,029
away. Just, oh, it's not the biggest deal.

567
00:19:07,029 --> 00:19:08,950
It's not like the top of my priority

568
00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:11,029
list as the rabbis have a lawn sign

569
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:12,789
that lets people know I stand with Israel.

570
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:14,650
Yeah. And I wake up the next morning,

571
00:19:14,789 --> 00:19:17,765
and someone had come during the night and

572
00:19:17,765 --> 00:19:20,325
reinforced it with, like, the steel rod. Like

573
00:19:20,325 --> 00:19:21,845
like, not like an easy fix. Like, put

574
00:19:21,845 --> 00:19:23,684
it in the ground Wow. And zip tied

575
00:19:23,684 --> 00:19:26,184
it so that it's standing. No idea who.

576
00:19:26,244 --> 00:19:28,184
Couple weeks later, the other leg

577
00:19:28,565 --> 00:19:31,599
knocks out. And next morning, exact same thing.

578
00:19:31,599 --> 00:19:33,840
Woke up, steel rod, took a picture of

579
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:34,500
it, actually.

580
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,779
Steel rod zip tied in the ground. That's

581
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,000
Utah County. Even the wind can't be anti

582
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:40,500
Semitic.

583
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,059
The wind was mildly anti Semitic,

584
00:19:43,375 --> 00:19:45,694
but Utah County picked up the pieces. Wow.

585
00:19:45,694 --> 00:19:46,914
Wow. That's incredible.

586
00:19:47,214 --> 00:19:49,534
Sorry. What I shared was my family was

587
00:19:49,534 --> 00:19:51,375
in Israel on October 7. We were in

588
00:19:51,375 --> 00:19:53,714
the South Of Israel. It was crazy.

589
00:19:54,095 --> 00:19:55,694
We did not have our phones on because

590
00:19:55,694 --> 00:19:57,214
it was on a Saturday. We don't use

591
00:19:57,214 --> 00:19:58,914
our phones on on the Sabbath. Mhmm.

592
00:19:59,429 --> 00:20:01,829
And when I turned my phone on Saturday

593
00:20:01,829 --> 00:20:03,589
night, one of the things that, like, really

594
00:20:03,589 --> 00:20:05,589
struck me, like, it really, like like, hit

595
00:20:05,589 --> 00:20:06,409
me deep

596
00:20:06,869 --> 00:20:08,549
was someone shared it ended up on my

597
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:10,250
Twitter feed, x, sorry,

598
00:20:10,629 --> 00:20:11,289
a video

599
00:20:11,704 --> 00:20:13,305
from downtown Salt Lake City. There was, like,

600
00:20:13,305 --> 00:20:14,664
a couple of I don't know if there's

601
00:20:14,664 --> 00:20:16,845
university students or somebody, like, dancing,

602
00:20:17,305 --> 00:20:19,384
celebrating what happened. And I'll remind you, this

603
00:20:19,384 --> 00:20:22,424
was on October 7, not even October 8.

604
00:20:22,424 --> 00:20:23,325
This was before

605
00:20:23,625 --> 00:20:25,625
Israel responded, and people had all different types

606
00:20:25,625 --> 00:20:27,400
of opinions and that it's a different story

607
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,400
a little bit after that. This was raw.

608
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,799
It was terrorist attack happens. So if this

609
00:20:31,799 --> 00:20:33,160
was in New York, I wouldn't have thought

610
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:34,519
twice. Like, I would even be like, why

611
00:20:34,519 --> 00:20:36,759
is this news? Because we're familiar. We're used

612
00:20:36,759 --> 00:20:38,519
to this. But when I see this in

613
00:20:38,519 --> 00:20:39,019
Utah,

614
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,575
it was, like, shocking to me because I

615
00:20:42,575 --> 00:20:45,555
think that illustrates that reaction, that feeling illustrates

616
00:20:46,255 --> 00:20:49,055
the the constant feeling of support, again, at

617
00:20:49,055 --> 00:20:51,375
least in Utah County Mhmm. That we are

618
00:20:51,375 --> 00:20:53,454
subject to. It's just a division that I

619
00:20:53,454 --> 00:20:55,549
make. Yeah. I still think Salt Lake City

620
00:20:55,549 --> 00:20:57,789
in comparison to many other places in this

621
00:20:57,789 --> 00:21:00,029
country, we're a lot better off. But there's

622
00:21:00,029 --> 00:21:02,509
there's a from my experience, there's a clear

623
00:21:02,509 --> 00:21:04,990
difference between Salt Lake and Lehi, New Smythe

624
00:21:04,990 --> 00:21:06,450
County. Yeah. Interesting.

625
00:21:06,964 --> 00:21:08,565
Take me just is your role as a

626
00:21:08,565 --> 00:21:10,585
rabbi, like, is that something

627
00:21:11,045 --> 00:21:13,765
that any anybody can have ambitions for and

628
00:21:13,765 --> 00:21:16,005
become? Or what's the process like? Or

629
00:21:16,805 --> 00:21:18,644
So the word rabbi can mean a lot

630
00:21:18,644 --> 00:21:20,184
of things, first of all. Mhmm.

631
00:21:20,579 --> 00:21:22,659
My term rabbi here means that I am

632
00:21:22,659 --> 00:21:25,799
the the spiritual leader of our community here.

633
00:21:26,019 --> 00:21:29,240
Then there's rabbis that are like rabbinic experts,

634
00:21:29,460 --> 00:21:30,279
meaning that

635
00:21:30,740 --> 00:21:32,839
Jewish law is is deeply complicated.

636
00:21:33,464 --> 00:21:36,184
And at any point, very confusing questions can

637
00:21:36,184 --> 00:21:37,944
come up. So basic questions, yeah, I can

638
00:21:37,944 --> 00:21:39,944
answer those. I I went through rabbinical ordination.

639
00:21:39,944 --> 00:21:41,964
I learned in Yeshiva in school for years.

640
00:21:42,265 --> 00:21:44,984
But too often, like, a question like, a

641
00:21:44,984 --> 00:21:47,224
complicated question comes up or more than that.

642
00:21:47,224 --> 00:21:48,990
Sometimes it's not even like a like a

643
00:21:48,990 --> 00:21:50,509
doubt. Like, what do I do here? Sometimes

644
00:21:50,509 --> 00:21:52,269
it's like, I need to know if I

645
00:21:52,269 --> 00:21:54,269
can get authorization to do x y z.

646
00:21:54,269 --> 00:21:56,130
And in that case, you need a rabbinic

647
00:21:56,269 --> 00:21:56,769
expert.

648
00:21:57,230 --> 00:21:58,910
So I have a rabbi in California that

649
00:21:58,910 --> 00:22:00,109
I call for all all these type of

650
00:22:00,109 --> 00:22:01,549
questions. Interesting. Okay. So I'll call him for

651
00:22:01,549 --> 00:22:04,335
guidance. But rabbi can mean different things in

652
00:22:04,335 --> 00:22:06,275
that regard. But, yeah, there are stories

653
00:22:06,734 --> 00:22:09,214
which are deeply inspiring. There's one that comes

654
00:22:09,214 --> 00:22:12,015
to mind of a rabbi that moved to

655
00:22:12,015 --> 00:22:13,234
a college in Texas,

656
00:22:13,615 --> 00:22:15,294
and he worked as a Chabad rabbi trying

657
00:22:15,294 --> 00:22:17,375
to reconnect Jews there with their roots and

658
00:22:17,375 --> 00:22:19,619
and help them grow and bring them back

659
00:22:19,619 --> 00:22:21,539
to a life of Torah, life of Judaism,

660
00:22:21,539 --> 00:22:22,740
even those that didn't grow up with it.

661
00:22:22,740 --> 00:22:25,140
And there was a particular student at Texas,

662
00:22:25,140 --> 00:22:27,059
I think I remember exactly which university it

663
00:22:27,059 --> 00:22:29,779
was, became close with this rabbi, ended up

664
00:22:29,779 --> 00:22:32,340
putting his university education aside. Maybe he graduated,

665
00:22:32,340 --> 00:22:34,825
maybe not, I don't remember. But ended up,

666
00:22:34,825 --> 00:22:35,325
like,

667
00:22:35,625 --> 00:22:37,224
deciding he wants to go to Yeshiva. He

668
00:22:37,224 --> 00:22:39,224
wants to go to school and learn a

669
00:22:39,224 --> 00:22:41,244
% of his time, became

670
00:22:41,625 --> 00:22:42,984
religious for the first time in his life.

671
00:22:42,984 --> 00:22:44,525
His team did not grow up with it,

672
00:22:44,664 --> 00:22:47,599
got married, and moved to become a Chabad

673
00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:50,400
rabbi in that same university working working for

674
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,799
that rabbi that turned his life around. Interesting.

675
00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:54,400
So is it something that everyone can aspire

676
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,319
to? Absolutely. Do you have the the to

677
00:22:56,319 --> 00:22:57,359
put your head done to get it done?

678
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:58,480
I don't even know if I would in

679
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,644
that in that circumstance. But aspire, absolutely. Yeah.

680
00:23:02,644 --> 00:23:04,085
It's a it's a long road, and it

681
00:23:04,085 --> 00:23:05,765
might be easier to become a brain surgeon

682
00:23:05,765 --> 00:23:06,825
at times, right,

683
00:23:07,284 --> 00:23:08,904
with with what's required there. But

684
00:23:09,365 --> 00:23:10,964
do you find, like, with Latter day Saints

685
00:23:11,044 --> 00:23:12,644
I mean, you know, we have a deep

686
00:23:12,644 --> 00:23:15,490
belief in the children of Israel, and we

687
00:23:15,490 --> 00:23:17,490
sometimes you know, we we have beliefs that

688
00:23:17,490 --> 00:23:19,329
sort of connect us to the house of

689
00:23:19,329 --> 00:23:21,169
house of Israel and things as do you

690
00:23:21,169 --> 00:23:23,190
kinda feel like there's this

691
00:23:23,650 --> 00:23:25,809
overemphasis of Latter day Saints sort of wanting

692
00:23:25,809 --> 00:23:28,045
to connect with your people? I mean, does

693
00:23:28,045 --> 00:23:29,244
that make sense? I mean, what comes to

694
00:23:29,244 --> 00:23:31,505
mind when or what have you seen? Yeah.

695
00:23:31,565 --> 00:23:32,065
Absolutely.

696
00:23:32,525 --> 00:23:33,964
I can't say this on theirs. We'll edit

697
00:23:33,964 --> 00:23:35,005
this part out. We have a couple in

698
00:23:35,005 --> 00:23:35,664
this room.

699
00:23:36,285 --> 00:23:38,525
It's alright. We have a studio audience here.

700
00:23:38,525 --> 00:23:39,424
Studio audience.

701
00:23:40,045 --> 00:23:41,565
Yeah. That's why if you hear if you

702
00:23:41,565 --> 00:23:43,089
heard the laughs in the back, it's not

703
00:23:43,089 --> 00:23:45,730
a laugh track. Leading Saints podcast does not

704
00:23:45,730 --> 00:23:47,329
use a laugh track. That's right. We're very

705
00:23:47,329 --> 00:23:48,149
serious people.

706
00:23:48,609 --> 00:23:50,769
We have a studio audience with us. That's

707
00:23:50,769 --> 00:23:52,630
right. And I did not bring them.

708
00:23:53,009 --> 00:23:54,690
I invited them. So they're not they're not

709
00:23:54,690 --> 00:23:56,865
being paid. Unless I'm sorry.

710
00:23:57,345 --> 00:23:57,845
Absolutely.

711
00:23:58,304 --> 00:24:00,005
I mentioned that we don't have

712
00:24:00,464 --> 00:24:02,865
yet a full time center. We're based out

713
00:24:02,865 --> 00:24:05,585
of our home. So all the time all

714
00:24:05,585 --> 00:24:06,625
the time when we put a flyer out

715
00:24:06,625 --> 00:24:07,744
there, when you put an event out there,

716
00:24:07,744 --> 00:24:08,944
to put a class, when you put whatever

717
00:24:08,944 --> 00:24:11,250
it is, we're getting requests like, hey. I

718
00:24:11,410 --> 00:24:12,769
wanna learn about your faith. I wanna come

719
00:24:12,769 --> 00:24:15,569
pop in. Can I do that? And it's

720
00:24:15,569 --> 00:24:17,730
tough. It really is tough, but too often

721
00:24:17,730 --> 00:24:19,269
we find that we have to say, like,

722
00:24:19,410 --> 00:24:21,410
while we're absolutely okay and we appreciate the

723
00:24:21,410 --> 00:24:24,315
support, like, we're just, like, maxed with capacity.

724
00:24:24,375 --> 00:24:26,215
Mhmm. I was like, if we had a

725
00:24:26,215 --> 00:24:27,975
center, it would likely be filled all the

726
00:24:27,975 --> 00:24:29,654
time because you have all different type like,

727
00:24:29,654 --> 00:24:31,815
types of people. Yeah. Very often, Latter day

728
00:24:31,815 --> 00:24:33,994
Saints that wanna come and experience,

729
00:24:34,295 --> 00:24:36,375
and it's just a space restriction. But, yeah,

730
00:24:36,375 --> 00:24:38,934
absolutely, the desire is there. Yeah. Yeah. And

731
00:24:38,934 --> 00:24:40,130
then I mean, there's

732
00:24:40,589 --> 00:24:42,849
some similarities, but they can maybe panel comparison.

733
00:24:42,910 --> 00:24:44,670
Like, we say, oh, you've got a, you

734
00:24:44,670 --> 00:24:46,670
know, a a health code, a diet code.

735
00:24:46,670 --> 00:24:49,549
Like, well, so do we. Right? And but

736
00:24:49,549 --> 00:24:51,869
they're very different. I mean I mean, as

737
00:24:51,869 --> 00:24:53,650
far as the you've talked about the complexities

738
00:24:53,789 --> 00:24:55,984
of of these things. I started my talk

739
00:24:55,984 --> 00:24:57,505
at BYU three with a confession that I

740
00:24:57,505 --> 00:24:59,605
had just had a coffee. Okay. I apologized.

741
00:25:00,384 --> 00:25:01,904
And others in the room had had bacon

742
00:25:01,904 --> 00:25:03,664
and, you know, it's like Yeah. I mentioned

743
00:25:03,664 --> 00:25:05,345
it. So so, Kurt, you and I met

744
00:25:05,345 --> 00:25:07,424
at the comedy show that our community posted

745
00:25:07,424 --> 00:25:09,419
a couple weeks ago. And I I'm not

746
00:25:09,419 --> 00:25:12,140
gonna succeed at saying this even with 30%

747
00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:13,980
of the delivery the comedian did. But I

748
00:25:13,980 --> 00:25:16,220
believe that what he opened with was that

749
00:25:16,220 --> 00:25:18,700
when he was on campus at BYU filming

750
00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:20,539
content, he had a disagreement with one of

751
00:25:20,539 --> 00:25:21,200
the students

752
00:25:21,505 --> 00:25:23,825
over what tastes better or what is more

753
00:25:23,825 --> 00:25:25,825
important or what someone's missing out on more,

754
00:25:25,825 --> 00:25:28,144
whether that's coffee or I believe he said

755
00:25:28,144 --> 00:25:28,644
shellfish.

756
00:25:29,025 --> 00:25:30,784
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That he said. Uh-huh.

757
00:25:30,784 --> 00:25:31,904
And he had to bring in a third

758
00:25:31,904 --> 00:25:33,904
party to settle it because either obviously, neither

759
00:25:33,904 --> 00:25:37,089
of them could could comment. And the third

760
00:25:37,089 --> 00:25:38,849
party said it was coffee. So Yeah. Again,

761
00:25:38,849 --> 00:25:41,250
I I don't say this to provoke. So

762
00:25:41,329 --> 00:25:43,509
Yeah. I'm sorry. Confessions. Sure.

763
00:25:43,809 --> 00:25:46,129
And, you know, as I've had interactions with,

764
00:25:46,129 --> 00:25:48,369
like, some of my evangelical friends, they look

765
00:25:48,369 --> 00:25:50,049
at me like, what's the deal with coffee?

766
00:25:50,049 --> 00:25:52,244
And I'm like, don't find reason behind it.

767
00:25:52,325 --> 00:25:53,924
It is what it is. Right? I can

768
00:25:53,924 --> 00:25:55,684
maybe come up with some reasons why. But

769
00:25:55,684 --> 00:25:57,045
is that do you kinda feel that way

770
00:25:57,045 --> 00:25:58,964
a lot with some of your restrictions or

771
00:25:58,964 --> 00:26:01,605
is like, it's not worth trying to explain

772
00:26:01,605 --> 00:26:03,384
why we do this? It's just the law.

773
00:26:03,525 --> 00:26:05,650
So first of all, I love that you

774
00:26:05,650 --> 00:26:06,789
guys don't drink coffee

775
00:26:07,410 --> 00:26:09,410
for the simple reason that I'll all the

776
00:26:09,410 --> 00:26:12,369
time be, like, speaking at interfaith events, and

777
00:26:12,369 --> 00:26:14,390
I'll start talking about some of our practices

778
00:26:14,450 --> 00:26:16,130
or kosher or something like that. And, like,

779
00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:17,410
you start to feel when the room is,

780
00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:19,090
like like, raising an eyebrow, like, is this

781
00:26:19,090 --> 00:26:20,984
guy is this guy serious? And then it's,

782
00:26:20,984 --> 00:26:22,744
like, right at that moment where I pop

783
00:26:22,744 --> 00:26:24,424
in and I'm like, but you guys don't

784
00:26:24,424 --> 00:26:25,164
drink coffee.

785
00:26:25,704 --> 00:26:27,085
And it's like, okay.

786
00:26:27,545 --> 00:26:29,085
Fine. Fair. Fair play.

787
00:26:29,464 --> 00:26:31,944
Yeah. So I love that. Yeah. It's exactly

788
00:26:31,944 --> 00:26:33,944
like you're saying, and it's also not exactly

789
00:26:33,944 --> 00:26:36,359
like you're saying. Okay. It's not it's just

790
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:37,559
what we do because I don't have the

791
00:26:37,559 --> 00:26:40,279
patience to explain it. It's the Torah has

792
00:26:40,279 --> 00:26:41,500
613

793
00:26:41,559 --> 00:26:42,059
mitzvahs,

794
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:43,900
613

795
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:46,359
do's and don'ts. Mhmm. Every single one of

796
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,599
the 613 do's and don'ts fits into one

797
00:26:48,599 --> 00:26:49,420
of three boxes.

798
00:26:49,785 --> 00:26:51,625
K? Box number one is called in Hebrew

799
00:26:51,625 --> 00:26:53,465
Mishpatim. Those are the laws that make a

800
00:26:53,465 --> 00:26:55,065
ton of sense. So had the Torah not

801
00:26:55,065 --> 00:26:56,744
told us to do that, we'd probably not

802
00:26:56,744 --> 00:26:58,265
do it. Does the I don't know if

803
00:26:58,265 --> 00:26:59,945
there's a I'm blanking on the exact word

804
00:26:59,945 --> 00:27:01,465
for it, but does the the code of

805
00:27:01,465 --> 00:27:03,705
laws and rules in LDS faith tell you

806
00:27:03,705 --> 00:27:05,799
not to kill? I mean, other than, like,

807
00:27:05,799 --> 00:27:07,960
the 10 commandments or, you know, but My

808
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,720
point is no. And if it doesn't, you

809
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,320
still don't because Right. Right. A, that's a

810
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:12,440
law, and you don't wanna go to prison.

811
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,720
But, b, it makes a lot of sense

812
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,720
because homicide is a bad idea. Right. Right.

813
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,019
Theft is a bad idea.

814
00:27:17,325 --> 00:27:19,904
Being immoral is a bad idea. Mhmm. So

815
00:27:20,044 --> 00:27:21,164
you could try this out. If you go

816
00:27:21,164 --> 00:27:23,164
home, you Google the list go and find

817
00:27:23,164 --> 00:27:25,325
on Wikipedia, list of the 613

818
00:27:25,325 --> 00:27:27,825
mitzvahs, 613 do's and don'ts in in Judaism,

819
00:27:27,964 --> 00:27:29,164
and then start going through them. See, let

820
00:27:29,164 --> 00:27:30,720
me let me try this. So one box

821
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,839
is the ones that make a ton of

822
00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:33,279
sense. Had the Torah not told us, we

823
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:35,220
might do them anyways because that's logical.

824
00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:38,400
Box number two are ones that remind us

825
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,359
of something called Eidos in Hebrew, such as

826
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:41,859
Shabbat.

827
00:27:42,205 --> 00:27:44,125
God created the world in six days. On

828
00:27:44,125 --> 00:27:46,285
the seventh day, he rested. So for us,

829
00:27:46,285 --> 00:27:48,285
every seventh day, we rest. If the Torah

830
00:27:48,285 --> 00:27:49,644
didn't tell us to do so, we wouldn't

831
00:27:49,644 --> 00:27:51,005
do that on our own. Right. But we

832
00:27:51,005 --> 00:27:53,565
understand why. Mhmm. Then you have the the

833
00:27:53,565 --> 00:27:55,805
third and the least popular box. The least

834
00:27:55,805 --> 00:27:57,565
popular box, the ones that people like the

835
00:27:57,565 --> 00:27:59,720
least. In Hebrew, it's called.

836
00:28:00,099 --> 00:28:02,339
Is a decree, is a literal translation. There

837
00:28:02,339 --> 00:28:03,880
are mitzvahs that we are given,

838
00:28:04,259 --> 00:28:06,500
and the reason why we do it is

839
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:09,140
because I said so, because god said so.

840
00:28:09,140 --> 00:28:11,460
Mhmm. There are a couple of examples. One

841
00:28:11,460 --> 00:28:13,535
of those is kosher. There actually

842
00:28:13,914 --> 00:28:15,055
is no reason

843
00:28:15,674 --> 00:28:18,715
why pig, why bacon, why pork is not

844
00:28:18,715 --> 00:28:21,055
kosher and steak is kosher. There is not.

845
00:28:21,195 --> 00:28:24,075
This is always the thing that people spend

846
00:28:24,075 --> 00:28:26,339
the most time on, meaning, I'll say, of

847
00:28:26,339 --> 00:28:28,099
other faiths, especially trying to get to the

848
00:28:28,099 --> 00:28:29,619
bottom of it. The first time I spoke

849
00:28:29,619 --> 00:28:31,859
at BYU about Kosher, their the professor sent

850
00:28:31,859 --> 00:28:33,380
me who's who's become a close friend at

851
00:28:33,380 --> 00:28:35,700
this point, sent me the curriculum that they're

852
00:28:35,700 --> 00:28:37,299
working on. He's like, here, if you wanna

853
00:28:37,299 --> 00:28:39,765
prepare, this is this is what we're what

854
00:28:39,765 --> 00:28:41,205
we're basing our lesson off of. So if

855
00:28:41,205 --> 00:28:42,884
you can, like yeah. If you wanna, you

856
00:28:42,884 --> 00:28:46,085
know, sync up. And the entire curriculum was

857
00:28:46,085 --> 00:28:47,384
like, so here's

858
00:28:47,845 --> 00:28:49,605
one reason why, and here's the second reason

859
00:28:49,605 --> 00:28:51,205
why. And I I walked in and I'm

860
00:28:51,205 --> 00:28:51,865
like, guys,

861
00:28:52,164 --> 00:28:54,430
there only is one reason why. And the

862
00:28:54,430 --> 00:28:57,470
reason why is because God said so, and

863
00:28:57,470 --> 00:28:59,630
it's not based off human logic. God is

864
00:28:59,630 --> 00:29:02,269
way beyond human logic. And if you're an

865
00:29:02,269 --> 00:29:05,549
employee at any company and you opt to

866
00:29:05,549 --> 00:29:06,690
only do the

867
00:29:07,095 --> 00:29:08,775
work that you feel like doing or you

868
00:29:08,775 --> 00:29:10,214
understand or you only wanna show up on

869
00:29:10,214 --> 00:29:11,174
the days that you feel like showing up,

870
00:29:11,174 --> 00:29:13,115
you're gonna be fired. You're a bad employee.

871
00:29:13,255 --> 00:29:14,934
Same thing in class. If you're a student

872
00:29:14,934 --> 00:29:17,015
and you only take the tests that for

873
00:29:17,015 --> 00:29:19,035
the classes that you like, you're gonna fail.

874
00:29:19,299 --> 00:29:21,539
With God even more so. And that is

875
00:29:21,539 --> 00:29:23,859
becoming, by the way, harder and harder as

876
00:29:23,859 --> 00:29:26,259
the generations go on because in 2025, we

877
00:29:26,259 --> 00:29:28,579
wanna we wanna be intellectual. We wanna do

878
00:29:28,579 --> 00:29:30,420
what we understand and what we feel like

879
00:29:30,420 --> 00:29:32,099
and what we connect with. And while that's

880
00:29:32,099 --> 00:29:32,599
important,

881
00:29:33,005 --> 00:29:33,904
you can't lose

882
00:29:34,445 --> 00:29:36,924
that aspect of your life, especially in religion,

883
00:29:36,924 --> 00:29:38,684
but in relationships that will help you in

884
00:29:38,684 --> 00:29:40,924
every way of life. You can't lose that

885
00:29:40,924 --> 00:29:43,725
notion of doing something, even if you don't

886
00:29:43,725 --> 00:29:46,365
understand it. Yeah. Kosher is because God said

887
00:29:46,365 --> 00:29:47,664
so. Will you find

888
00:29:48,259 --> 00:29:50,980
explanations in different books that could try after

889
00:29:50,980 --> 00:29:52,740
the fact to explain what may be the

890
00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:55,059
underlying reason? Yeah. Mhmm. Nachmanides deals with it.

891
00:29:55,059 --> 00:29:56,419
My monadides deals with it. There's plenty of

892
00:29:56,419 --> 00:29:58,259
people that deal with that back and forth,

893
00:29:58,259 --> 00:30:00,599
but none of those are the reason why.

894
00:30:00,974 --> 00:30:02,654
The reason why is because god said so.

895
00:30:02,654 --> 00:30:04,414
Yeah. Like, human nature, we wanna put it

896
00:30:04,414 --> 00:30:06,015
in that first box of, like, well, obviously,

897
00:30:06,015 --> 00:30:07,615
there's logic behind this, and let's find it,

898
00:30:07,615 --> 00:30:09,535
and then we'll all understand. Right? But then

899
00:30:09,535 --> 00:30:12,015
you discover there's there's no logic or there's

900
00:30:12,015 --> 00:30:14,279
things we we don't do that feels like

901
00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:15,720
maybe we should do that because the logic's

902
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,079
there. But no. No. No. It all comes

903
00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:18,759
back to the, well, god said so. And

904
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:21,079
Cannot yeah. And we cannot lose. Like, that's

905
00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:21,819
Yeah.

906
00:30:22,119 --> 00:30:24,039
That is something that, like, I think that,

907
00:30:24,039 --> 00:30:26,359
like, our kids need to be reminded and

908
00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:28,815
reminded and reminded of. Like, as a generations

909
00:30:28,815 --> 00:30:30,994
go on, it's more about like, Hey, like

910
00:30:31,054 --> 00:30:33,294
don't be such a rough, don't speak so

911
00:30:33,294 --> 00:30:34,894
roughly with your kids. It's all about like,

912
00:30:34,894 --> 00:30:36,815
you know, like don't tell them no, let

913
00:30:36,815 --> 00:30:38,575
them make their own decisions. It's all about

914
00:30:38,575 --> 00:30:40,275
like, no, like let the kids make.

915
00:30:41,294 --> 00:30:44,179
Some things we have to instill that there's

916
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:44,980
authority.

917
00:30:45,519 --> 00:30:47,379
And if the generation,

918
00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:50,079
if the next generation grows up where everything

919
00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:51,599
is about what I feel like, and everything's

920
00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:52,899
about my understanding,

921
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,960
they're going to struggle and they're going to

922
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,159
have a hard time with religion and they're

923
00:30:56,159 --> 00:30:57,734
going to have a hard time with holding

924
00:30:57,734 --> 00:30:58,934
down a job. And I think that we're

925
00:30:58,934 --> 00:31:00,954
we're even seeing that a little bit. Mhmm.

926
00:31:01,414 --> 00:31:04,375
While it's important that we understand things, because

927
00:31:04,375 --> 00:31:07,095
that enables us to be a lot more

928
00:31:07,095 --> 00:31:09,835
passionate when we do it, we cannot lose

929
00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:10,579
the

930
00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:14,339
notion of some things are beyond our understanding.

931
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,399
Yeah. Yeah. I I think that's powerful, and

932
00:31:16,399 --> 00:31:18,339
and we lose that like like you mentioned.

933
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,159
You know, in our faith tradition, there's such

934
00:31:20,159 --> 00:31:22,960
a strong foundation or a principle I'd I'd

935
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,965
say better said is as far as, like,

936
00:31:24,965 --> 00:31:27,765
conversion or testimony, you know, oftentimes as we

937
00:31:27,765 --> 00:31:29,525
articulate our faith, we go to a place

938
00:31:29,525 --> 00:31:31,445
of, like, maybe an experience we had that

939
00:31:31,445 --> 00:31:32,585
was hyper

940
00:31:32,965 --> 00:31:36,805
spiritual that really shifted our understanding and feelings

941
00:31:36,805 --> 00:31:37,705
towards God.

942
00:31:38,069 --> 00:31:38,970
Is that similar

943
00:31:39,349 --> 00:31:41,029
in your world as far as, like I

944
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:42,789
mean, why why are you so committed? You

945
00:31:42,789 --> 00:31:44,869
know, was there experience or a moment or

946
00:31:44,869 --> 00:31:46,409
is it do you frame it differently?

947
00:31:46,869 --> 00:31:48,950
It's all about experience. Everybody I think for

948
00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:51,955
everybody, it's about experiences. But some people everybody

949
00:31:51,955 --> 00:31:53,315
has their journey in life. Let's say it

950
00:31:53,315 --> 00:31:55,475
like that. So some people, it's all about

951
00:31:55,555 --> 00:31:57,555
like, it took an experience to shake you

952
00:31:57,555 --> 00:31:59,154
up. Trying to find the right the right

953
00:31:59,154 --> 00:32:01,315
words on yours because I actually spoke with

954
00:32:01,315 --> 00:32:03,515
a professor at BYU about this. Something that

955
00:32:03,515 --> 00:32:04,835
I think the LDS faith and the Jewish

956
00:32:04,835 --> 00:32:06,119
faith have in common is there's a lot

957
00:32:06,119 --> 00:32:06,619
of

958
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,079
rules. Right? It's not about, like, some faiths

959
00:32:09,079 --> 00:32:11,480
are literally just, like, not to put it

960
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,079
down, but, like, as long as you show

961
00:32:13,079 --> 00:32:14,619
up on Sunday and you do your thing,

962
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,599
like, that is your religion. Mhmm. And then

963
00:32:16,599 --> 00:32:18,460
everything else is your personal life. Mhmm.

964
00:32:18,784 --> 00:32:21,585
Judaism is the opposite extreme. Like, Judaism is

965
00:32:21,585 --> 00:32:23,184
the strongest religion in the sense that there

966
00:32:23,184 --> 00:32:24,944
are rules that pertain to everywhere all the

967
00:32:24,944 --> 00:32:26,784
time. But I think the LDS faith is

968
00:32:26,784 --> 00:32:28,625
somewhere in between on that one. There's definitely

969
00:32:28,625 --> 00:32:31,044
a lot more active involvement and active rules.

970
00:32:31,265 --> 00:32:33,750
Correct? Yeah. I'd agree. Mhmm. So I think

971
00:32:33,829 --> 00:32:36,309
it's something that both faiths share is that

972
00:32:36,309 --> 00:32:37,690
people will tend

973
00:32:38,069 --> 00:32:39,910
to, in their teenage years, rebel a little

974
00:32:39,910 --> 00:32:41,349
bit if it's being shoved down your throat.

975
00:32:41,349 --> 00:32:42,869
It's like push back. Let me let me

976
00:32:42,869 --> 00:32:45,029
try. Let me I'm gonna go sneak I'm

977
00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:46,869
joking on this one. Just expressing the point.

978
00:32:46,869 --> 00:32:48,789
Yeah. I'll sneak a coffee in my room.

979
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:51,724
Uh-huh. Right? Or the Torah wants me to

980
00:32:51,724 --> 00:32:53,644
not be I wouldn't say the Torah. It's

981
00:32:53,644 --> 00:32:55,404
customary in my faith not to be in

982
00:32:55,404 --> 00:32:57,325
a coed school. I'm gonna go talk to

983
00:32:57,325 --> 00:32:59,005
a girl without my parents talking about it.

984
00:32:59,005 --> 00:33:00,144
So now some people

985
00:33:00,525 --> 00:33:02,144
will rebel to the extreme,

986
00:33:02,765 --> 00:33:05,460
and that experience will eventually lead them back

987
00:33:05,539 --> 00:33:08,019
to a drastic turnaround. And some people never

988
00:33:08,019 --> 00:33:09,299
really step out of line to such an

989
00:33:09,299 --> 00:33:11,700
extreme. They're, like, just constantly, like, pushing back

990
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:12,819
a little bit, and then they're saying, like,

991
00:33:12,819 --> 00:33:13,779
no. This is what I want. This is

992
00:33:13,779 --> 00:33:16,019
what I like. So everybody's different. Everybody's different.

993
00:33:16,019 --> 00:33:17,779
Sometimes it's very much guided by our experiences,

994
00:33:17,779 --> 00:33:20,365
and some people just it's small things that

995
00:33:20,365 --> 00:33:22,845
keep us appreciating all along the way without

996
00:33:22,845 --> 00:33:24,365
stepping out of line and without you know

997
00:33:24,365 --> 00:33:26,605
what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. And and sort

998
00:33:26,605 --> 00:33:28,365
of some people are okay with that or

999
00:33:28,365 --> 00:33:30,045
can sit with that. Like, yes, the teenagers

1000
00:33:30,045 --> 00:33:32,960
sort of wavering, but maybe it's to the

1001
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,960
greater good, the greater story that leads them

1002
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,720
back to faith. Is that fair to say?

1003
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,400
I mean and some are more comfortable with

1004
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,160
that than others. So something, no. No. This

1005
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,080
is terrible. This should never happen. The challenge

1006
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,920
is keeping objective when it's someone that that

1007
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,914
you love and, like, you want them to

1008
00:33:45,914 --> 00:33:47,674
do what you're doing, but you also want

1009
00:33:47,674 --> 00:33:48,815
them to make their own decisions.

1010
00:33:49,515 --> 00:33:52,015
It's just about, I think, remaining objective.

1011
00:33:52,475 --> 00:33:55,275
Yeah. Like we talked about these children, our

1012
00:33:55,275 --> 00:33:58,669
youth in Utah. Right? So when a child

1013
00:33:59,129 --> 00:34:01,289
is struggling and then then it comes to

1014
00:34:01,289 --> 00:34:02,409
the point that they have to go to

1015
00:34:02,409 --> 00:34:04,269
therapy, they have to go get better.

1016
00:34:04,730 --> 00:34:06,009
Sometimes the parents will be like, what do

1017
00:34:06,009 --> 00:34:07,210
you mean send them to Utah? How can

1018
00:34:07,210 --> 00:34:08,809
you keep Kosher in Utah? How could you

1019
00:34:08,969 --> 00:34:10,409
how could they pray three times a day

1020
00:34:10,409 --> 00:34:11,849
with a minyan, which means with a quorum

1021
00:34:11,849 --> 00:34:14,085
of 10 people in Utah? How could they

1022
00:34:14,144 --> 00:34:16,065
do daily Torah study in Utah? And my

1023
00:34:16,065 --> 00:34:17,344
father very often has to step in and

1024
00:34:17,344 --> 00:34:18,785
remind them or or if we're speaking to

1025
00:34:18,785 --> 00:34:20,144
one of these families because we're starting to

1026
00:34:20,144 --> 00:34:22,244
step into that role a little bit. Like,

1027
00:34:22,385 --> 00:34:24,704
right now, you're talking about life or death.

1028
00:34:24,704 --> 00:34:26,885
Right now, you're talking about your child's health.

1029
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:29,239
And sometimes what's necessary

1030
00:34:29,699 --> 00:34:30,760
is to just

1031
00:34:31,059 --> 00:34:32,660
understand that that all has to go on

1032
00:34:32,660 --> 00:34:34,420
pause for a minute so that the child

1033
00:34:34,420 --> 00:34:36,039
could be healthy. The Torah says,

1034
00:34:36,739 --> 00:34:37,239
is

1035
00:34:37,940 --> 00:34:39,619
a Hebrew word means you should live by

1036
00:34:39,619 --> 00:34:40,519
them, which means

1037
00:34:40,894 --> 00:34:43,635
health comes first. I'm diabetic.

1038
00:34:44,175 --> 00:34:46,175
Okay? Which means I wear an insulin pump,

1039
00:34:46,175 --> 00:34:48,914
which is electric, even on Shabbat. Right?

1040
00:34:49,295 --> 00:34:51,074
There's no concept of being fanatics

1041
00:34:51,375 --> 00:34:53,820
of saying no. On Shabbat, I'm just gonna

1042
00:34:53,820 --> 00:34:55,360
take my chances. Yeah.

1043
00:34:56,140 --> 00:34:58,160
No. On the contrary, actually,

1044
00:34:58,619 --> 00:35:01,099
I remember there's a certain diabetic product that

1045
00:35:01,099 --> 00:35:03,260
was invented a few years ago, maybe at

1046
00:35:03,260 --> 00:35:05,260
this point, ten years ago, maybe a little

1047
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:07,655
less, that could check your blood sugar constantly.

1048
00:35:07,655 --> 00:35:09,255
I used to prick my finger Mhmm. And

1049
00:35:09,255 --> 00:35:11,255
now it's it's electric. It's on my phone,

1050
00:35:11,255 --> 00:35:12,795
and it checks your blood sugar constantly.

1051
00:35:13,094 --> 00:35:15,094
And there was, like, an article written from

1052
00:35:15,094 --> 00:35:16,855
a Halakhic expert, from a rabbi that that's

1053
00:35:16,855 --> 00:35:18,809
an expert in Torah law that was saying

1054
00:35:18,809 --> 00:35:21,070
that while we might not

1055
00:35:21,369 --> 00:35:23,769
be eager to go switch because it's me

1056
00:35:23,769 --> 00:35:25,869
feel weird being on your phone on Sabbath,

1057
00:35:26,250 --> 00:35:28,489
but, actually, this is a much better option

1058
00:35:28,489 --> 00:35:31,425
than pricking your finger. Mhmm. Right? Now pricking

1059
00:35:31,425 --> 00:35:33,265
your finger causing yourself to bleed on the

1060
00:35:33,265 --> 00:35:35,105
Shabbat is also an issue. And, also, you're

1061
00:35:35,105 --> 00:35:37,664
in better control if you're constantly being checked

1062
00:35:37,664 --> 00:35:39,765
versus checking once in a while. So, yeah,

1063
00:35:39,905 --> 00:35:43,179
Torah says be healthy. So I, first of

1064
00:35:43,179 --> 00:35:45,019
all, have completely lost sight of your question,

1065
00:35:45,019 --> 00:35:45,760
I think.

1066
00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:48,159
But now that I'm on a tangent,

1067
00:35:49,099 --> 00:35:51,260
health comes first. Yeah. So also in these

1068
00:35:51,260 --> 00:35:52,800
cases where your child is struggling,

1069
00:35:53,099 --> 00:35:55,019
health comes first. So you have to just

1070
00:35:55,019 --> 00:35:57,325
be okay with you know, obviously, you try

1071
00:35:57,325 --> 00:35:59,085
to create a system in which if the

1072
00:35:59,085 --> 00:36:00,846
child is holding there and they want that,

1073
00:36:00,846 --> 00:36:02,607
that you could try to have as much

1074
00:36:02,607 --> 00:36:04,367
as as much Jewish infrastructure as possible while

1075
00:36:04,367 --> 00:36:06,128
they're here. But you can't shove it down

1076
00:36:06,128 --> 00:36:07,889
their throats while they're struggling with other things.

1077
00:36:07,889 --> 00:36:09,649
Maybe that is even what's causing them to

1078
00:36:09,649 --> 00:36:11,909
struggle. Mhmm. You gotta first focus on health,

1079
00:36:11,909 --> 00:36:13,190
and then you get back to the rest.

1080
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:15,670
Yeah. And, obviously, consult with rabbinic experts before

1081
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:17,429
doing this and not off a one off

1082
00:36:17,429 --> 00:36:18,630
thing you heard from a rabbi in a

1083
00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:20,869
podcast in a basement in I can't tell

1084
00:36:20,869 --> 00:36:22,389
you where we are. We're we're in Orem.

1085
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:23,050
Undisclosed

1086
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:24,809
location. That's right.

1087
00:36:25,724 --> 00:36:27,644
So along the lines as far as conversion,

1088
00:36:27,644 --> 00:36:29,644
like, obviously, in our faith tradition, we literally

1089
00:36:29,644 --> 00:36:31,985
send people out to go proselytize

1090
00:36:32,605 --> 00:36:34,684
and, you know, gather Israel as we we

1091
00:36:34,684 --> 00:36:36,684
say it. Is that is that a tension

1092
00:36:36,684 --> 00:36:38,845
point in your faith? Like, is your desire

1093
00:36:38,845 --> 00:36:40,144
that more and more even

1094
00:36:40,539 --> 00:36:42,699
Latter day Saints or Christians or atheists will

1095
00:36:42,699 --> 00:36:43,599
become Jewish?

1096
00:36:43,980 --> 00:36:46,319
Or how do you frame just that, like,

1097
00:36:46,539 --> 00:36:48,859
gathering people and and converting them to the

1098
00:36:48,859 --> 00:36:50,000
the law that you follow?

1099
00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:52,460
There's a fantastic piece. I'm a comedian on

1100
00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:54,059
this. But, like, I I almost wanna, like,

1101
00:36:54,059 --> 00:36:56,125
play the sound bite into the microphone, but

1102
00:36:56,125 --> 00:36:58,864
I won't, and I can't. Just because anyways,

1103
00:36:59,485 --> 00:37:02,285
logistics. But I think that Judaism is different

1104
00:37:02,285 --> 00:37:04,525
from any other faith and especially different from

1105
00:37:04,525 --> 00:37:06,605
the LDS faith in the sense that we

1106
00:37:06,605 --> 00:37:08,065
don't pursue conversion

1107
00:37:08,445 --> 00:37:11,030
at all at all. Meaning, I say this

1108
00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:13,109
all the time. If somebody came over to

1109
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:15,590
me and they're like, rabbi, I'm really craving

1110
00:37:15,590 --> 00:37:17,690
bacon right now. Should I go eat bacon?

1111
00:37:17,829 --> 00:37:19,670
And they were not Jewish. Uh-huh. I'll be

1112
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:22,650
like, absolutely. Like, I hear it's fantastic.

1113
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:25,369
Like, I can't, so don't offer me any.

1114
00:37:25,635 --> 00:37:27,094
Wish I could, but I can't.

1115
00:37:27,474 --> 00:37:30,114
But you absolutely should because it's not our

1116
00:37:30,114 --> 00:37:32,755
view that the whole world should be Jewish.

1117
00:37:32,755 --> 00:37:34,114
It's also not our view that the whole

1118
00:37:34,114 --> 00:37:36,135
world should do what we do. Like,

1119
00:37:36,434 --> 00:37:38,434
we are descendants of Abraham and Isaac and

1120
00:37:38,434 --> 00:37:40,675
Jacob and and 12 tribes and from there

1121
00:37:40,675 --> 00:37:42,510
and, like, continues to go down Moses.

1122
00:37:42,890 --> 00:37:44,090
So these are the rules that we have

1123
00:37:44,090 --> 00:37:44,829
to live by,

1124
00:37:45,130 --> 00:37:47,150
and some people in the world are normal.

1125
00:37:47,210 --> 00:37:48,410
I say it as a joke, but my

1126
00:37:48,410 --> 00:37:50,809
point is others do not have to do

1127
00:37:50,809 --> 00:37:52,329
what we do, and it's not our desire

1128
00:37:52,329 --> 00:37:53,869
that everybody should be Jewish.

1129
00:37:54,335 --> 00:37:57,295
There's something called the seven laws of Noah,

1130
00:37:57,295 --> 00:37:58,674
the seven Noahide laws.

1131
00:37:59,375 --> 00:38:01,934
That is the one initiative we take that

1132
00:38:01,934 --> 00:38:04,275
these were laws that God did not give

1133
00:38:04,335 --> 00:38:06,255
to the Jewish people. These are laws that

1134
00:38:06,255 --> 00:38:07,829
God gives the children of Noah, which the

1135
00:38:07,829 --> 00:38:10,230
entire population, the entire world are descendants of.

1136
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:11,670
And these are seven laws. I don't I

1137
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:12,869
don't think I'm gonna list them here. You

1138
00:38:12,869 --> 00:38:15,050
people could Google them. They're very easily accessible.

1139
00:38:15,110 --> 00:38:18,250
These are laws that everybody should live by.

1140
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:20,070
And these are laws that if everybody lived

1141
00:38:20,070 --> 00:38:21,190
by the world, be a lot more of

1142
00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:23,289
a godly place, and they're not too hard.

1143
00:38:23,594 --> 00:38:25,114
So that is one thing that we're like,

1144
00:38:25,114 --> 00:38:27,034
okay. Let's spread that message. Let's spread the

1145
00:38:27,034 --> 00:38:28,734
the message of the seven laws of Noah.

1146
00:38:28,954 --> 00:38:30,954
But as far as making the whole world

1147
00:38:30,954 --> 00:38:32,635
Jewish, absolutely not. And this is where that

1148
00:38:32,635 --> 00:38:34,715
comedian's piece comes in. Actually, like, we'll get

1149
00:38:34,715 --> 00:38:35,914
calls from people that are like, oh, I

1150
00:38:35,914 --> 00:38:37,135
wanna convert to Judaism.

1151
00:38:37,460 --> 00:38:38,819
Very often, it's like people that, like, try

1152
00:38:38,819 --> 00:38:40,420
every faith, and we're like, I don't know

1153
00:38:40,420 --> 00:38:42,099
if that's for you. Yeah. It's literally the

1154
00:38:42,099 --> 00:38:43,699
comedian says, like, the comedian says, you wanna

1155
00:38:43,699 --> 00:38:45,699
convert to to this faith? Oh, dog. You're

1156
00:38:45,699 --> 00:38:47,299
in. You convert to that faith? You're in.

1157
00:38:47,299 --> 00:38:49,059
You wanna convert to Judaism? I don't know

1158
00:38:49,059 --> 00:38:50,759
if you're a good fit. Meaning

1159
00:38:51,139 --> 00:38:51,639
Yeah.

1160
00:38:51,974 --> 00:38:53,655
The reason why it's a challenge is, first

1161
00:38:53,655 --> 00:38:55,355
of all, it's super challenging

1162
00:38:55,815 --> 00:38:59,675
living as a fully Torah observant Jew in

1163
00:38:59,894 --> 00:39:02,375
Utah. It's very hard. Mhmm. So very often,

1164
00:39:02,375 --> 00:39:04,135
we've had plenty of conversions, by the way,

1165
00:39:04,135 --> 00:39:05,255
that have happened over the years and people

1166
00:39:05,255 --> 00:39:06,800
that were very passionate about it. And the

1167
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,820
next step always was that they moved away.

1168
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,199
Mhmm. I don't know of. There are no

1169
00:39:11,199 --> 00:39:11,699
Jewish

1170
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:13,539
converts through Chabad,

1171
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,400
through Orthodox conversion that are still living in

1172
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:16,900
Utah.

1173
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,059
Interesting. Because it's not a thriving

1174
00:39:19,674 --> 00:39:21,594
Jewish community. It's a growing Jewish community. It's

1175
00:39:21,594 --> 00:39:23,034
not a thriving. It's not there's not a

1176
00:39:23,034 --> 00:39:25,054
hundred restaurants and 50 synagogues.

1177
00:39:25,594 --> 00:39:26,414
Every town

1178
00:39:26,714 --> 00:39:28,714
needs to have multiple synagogues because there's all

1179
00:39:28,714 --> 00:39:30,554
the ones that I don't go to. Mhmm.

1180
00:39:30,554 --> 00:39:32,954
Right? If there's one synagogue, it's boring. That's

1181
00:39:32,954 --> 00:39:33,994
the one I go to. You need all

1182
00:39:33,994 --> 00:39:35,390
the ones you don't go to. You need

1183
00:39:35,390 --> 00:39:37,710
to have classes, like, lots going on, and

1184
00:39:37,710 --> 00:39:39,309
we don't have the infrastructure for that. Yeah.

1185
00:39:39,309 --> 00:39:40,829
And so very often, there's a process to

1186
00:39:40,829 --> 00:39:42,989
it too where there's, like, courts. There's rabbinic

1187
00:39:42,989 --> 00:39:45,710
courts in bigger Jewish communities that process conversions.

1188
00:39:45,710 --> 00:39:47,949
I can't process a conversion. You need rabbinic

1189
00:39:47,949 --> 00:39:49,795
court. And very often, they'll be like, how

1190
00:39:49,795 --> 00:39:51,394
far do you live from synagogue? How are

1191
00:39:51,394 --> 00:39:52,835
you gonna walk there on Saturday when you

1192
00:39:52,835 --> 00:39:54,515
can't drive? Oh, yeah. Like, what are you

1193
00:39:54,515 --> 00:39:55,635
doing for Kosher? What do you need to

1194
00:39:55,635 --> 00:39:56,695
educate your children?

1195
00:39:56,994 --> 00:39:58,515
So very often, like, we'll be the first

1196
00:39:58,515 --> 00:40:00,994
ones to discourage it just because of the

1197
00:40:00,994 --> 00:40:03,890
challenges they're within. Yeah. And, like, I have

1198
00:40:03,890 --> 00:40:05,250
never had a piece of pork in my

1199
00:40:05,250 --> 00:40:06,769
life, a piece of bacon in my life.

1200
00:40:06,769 --> 00:40:08,690
Right? I don't know what I'm missing, so

1201
00:40:08,690 --> 00:40:10,610
I'm okay with it. Right. Same with coffee

1202
00:40:10,610 --> 00:40:11,969
for me, but I mean, it smells pretty

1203
00:40:11,969 --> 00:40:13,489
good. But Sorry. I hope I'm not tempting

1204
00:40:13,489 --> 00:40:14,230
you here today.

1205
00:40:15,090 --> 00:40:17,329
Somebody that grew up eating it all the

1206
00:40:17,329 --> 00:40:19,625
time, like, I wanna be Jewish. So, like,

1207
00:40:19,684 --> 00:40:22,105
that thing that was a %

1208
00:40:22,324 --> 00:40:24,164
acceptable today. I again, I just said, I

1209
00:40:24,164 --> 00:40:26,085
would encourage you to eat it. Just went

1210
00:40:26,085 --> 00:40:27,765
overnight. Let's say you you you process your

1211
00:40:27,765 --> 00:40:28,885
conversion at 12:01,

1212
00:40:29,364 --> 00:40:32,980
daylight savings time. That today, that's a %

1213
00:40:32,980 --> 00:40:35,140
allowed. No problem. You did enjoy yourself. And

1214
00:40:35,140 --> 00:40:37,220
tomorrow, all of a sudden, it's a sin.

1215
00:40:37,220 --> 00:40:38,039
It's a problem.

1216
00:40:38,420 --> 00:40:40,680
But we're humans, and we have desires.

1217
00:40:41,780 --> 00:40:43,619
So now you're gonna let's say, maybe you're

1218
00:40:43,619 --> 00:40:45,059
firm enough to not have it, but maybe

1219
00:40:45,059 --> 00:40:47,355
you're not. So now you just, for no

1220
00:40:47,355 --> 00:40:50,474
reason at all, just switched from making this

1221
00:40:50,474 --> 00:40:52,715
activity a % okay to making this something

1222
00:40:52,715 --> 00:40:54,235
that you're filled with guilt over and something

1223
00:40:54,235 --> 00:40:55,434
that you're not supposed to be doing. For

1224
00:40:55,434 --> 00:40:56,735
what reason? Yeah.

1225
00:40:57,275 --> 00:40:58,954
So, I mean, a big tension point in,

1226
00:40:58,954 --> 00:40:59,695
like, Christianity,

1227
00:41:00,369 --> 00:41:02,210
including Latter day Saints, is this feeling of,

1228
00:41:02,210 --> 00:41:04,769
like, the decline in of faith or people

1229
00:41:04,769 --> 00:41:05,269
leaving

1230
00:41:05,570 --> 00:41:08,050
our faith or our children, you know, not

1231
00:41:08,050 --> 00:41:09,190
remaining as active.

1232
00:41:09,489 --> 00:41:11,510
Is that a tension point in your perspective

1233
00:41:11,570 --> 00:41:12,929
that you see, or how do you frame

1234
00:41:12,929 --> 00:41:15,625
that? That's something that I devoted my wife

1235
00:41:15,625 --> 00:41:18,045
and I devoted our life to helping support.

1236
00:41:18,184 --> 00:41:20,105
I wouldn't say it's a tension point. Mhmm.

1237
00:41:20,105 --> 00:41:22,984
It happens. So let's find ways to I

1238
00:41:22,984 --> 00:41:24,344
guess that this goes to the core of

1239
00:41:24,344 --> 00:41:26,184
how would you define a tension point. Mhmm.

1240
00:41:26,184 --> 00:41:27,704
But it's something that we're that is what

1241
00:41:27,784 --> 00:41:29,760
exactly what we are committed to, to helping

1242
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:30,980
people that have

1243
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,460
grown up without any

1244
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,260
Jewish

1245
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,260
experience, whether that's because

1246
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,719
two generations ago or three generations ago, however

1247
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,480
long ago, somebody left the faith. But now

1248
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,500
let's just be there and be supportive

1249
00:41:42,914 --> 00:41:44,195
and be a place where they can come

1250
00:41:44,195 --> 00:41:46,035
and learn without judgment and on their own

1251
00:41:46,035 --> 00:41:48,434
level. Yeah. And so at least that you're

1252
00:41:48,434 --> 00:41:50,195
you're gonna make a space where that can

1253
00:41:50,195 --> 00:41:51,574
happen. You're not necessarily

1254
00:41:52,035 --> 00:41:54,114
worried or going out there and making sure,

1255
00:41:54,114 --> 00:41:56,755
like, you don't lose people. But you It

1256
00:41:56,755 --> 00:41:59,369
goes hand in hand. But, like, our community

1257
00:41:59,369 --> 00:42:01,609
is not filled with people that look like

1258
00:42:01,609 --> 00:42:03,309
me that I'm worried we might lose.

1259
00:42:03,609 --> 00:42:05,289
Right? Because they don't tend to live in

1260
00:42:05,289 --> 00:42:08,170
Utah. Yeah. Our community is filled with people

1261
00:42:08,170 --> 00:42:10,489
that are on the upwards trajectory, people that

1262
00:42:10,489 --> 00:42:12,089
are making their way back, people that are

1263
00:42:12,089 --> 00:42:13,710
learning, and they're looking to grow.

1264
00:42:14,034 --> 00:42:15,635
But, yeah, I think as as a nation

1265
00:42:15,715 --> 00:42:17,155
again, I don't live in Brooklyn, so I'm

1266
00:42:17,155 --> 00:42:18,755
I'm not that's not something that I struggle

1267
00:42:18,755 --> 00:42:20,515
with. But as a nation, like, yeah, we

1268
00:42:20,675 --> 00:42:22,675
we're trying to just make sure that it's

1269
00:42:22,675 --> 00:42:24,994
something that is positive. Yeah. Something that people

1270
00:42:24,994 --> 00:42:27,039
want to stick to. Yeah. So as a

1271
00:42:27,039 --> 00:42:28,400
faith leader, what would you say? Like, what

1272
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,079
keeps you up at night? Like, what worries

1273
00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:31,779
you the most? My kids screaming,

1274
00:42:32,319 --> 00:42:32,819
mostly.

1275
00:42:33,279 --> 00:42:34,980
At least that was last night. Okay.

1276
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:36,799
But generally speaking

1277
00:42:38,735 --> 00:42:39,934
What keeps me up at night? What do

1278
00:42:39,934 --> 00:42:41,775
you worry about as a faith leader? Ah,

1279
00:42:41,775 --> 00:42:43,135
okay. Your your phrase get fucked because I

1280
00:42:43,295 --> 00:42:44,335
Is that better? I know how to put

1281
00:42:44,335 --> 00:42:45,474
it out. I go to sleep.

1282
00:42:47,375 --> 00:42:49,934
The honestly, just because you're you're over that

1283
00:42:49,934 --> 00:42:51,614
that can of worms, like, there's a book

1284
00:42:51,614 --> 00:42:52,515
called the Tanya.

1285
00:42:52,839 --> 00:42:54,119
Beautiful book. I learned it with a lot

1286
00:42:54,119 --> 00:42:55,500
of people. It's it's Kabbalah.

1287
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,280
And a lot of what the Tanya discusses

1288
00:42:58,280 --> 00:42:59,719
is, like, the struggle a lot of people

1289
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:01,559
have between, like, their desire to do good

1290
00:43:01,559 --> 00:43:03,420
and their and their desire for self indulgence.

1291
00:43:03,559 --> 00:43:05,079
Mhmm. And, like, one of the principles I

1292
00:43:05,079 --> 00:43:06,199
laid out, I was just learning with somebody

1293
00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:07,734
recently. And this person I was learning with

1294
00:43:07,734 --> 00:43:08,855
has been a physician for a number of

1295
00:43:08,855 --> 00:43:09,894
years, and I learned this with him, and

1296
00:43:09,894 --> 00:43:11,014
he's like, I wanna try that. And he

1297
00:43:11,014 --> 00:43:12,135
came back to me. He's like, that worked.

1298
00:43:12,135 --> 00:43:13,734
And I'm like, but this is, like, one

1299
00:43:13,734 --> 00:43:15,275
zero one. Like but the Tanya

1300
00:43:15,734 --> 00:43:17,655
opened his eyes to it. The Tanya's point

1301
00:43:17,655 --> 00:43:20,635
was every person has the ability easily

1302
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:22,010
to not sin.

1303
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:22,809
Easily.

1304
00:43:23,110 --> 00:43:23,610
How?

1305
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:26,710
Because your brain is a lot stronger than

1306
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:27,369
your desires.

1307
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:28,969
So if you

1308
00:43:29,429 --> 00:43:30,409
use your brain

1309
00:43:30,869 --> 00:43:33,530
to actively push out of your mind

1310
00:43:33,974 --> 00:43:35,974
any thought of sin, you could just not

1311
00:43:35,974 --> 00:43:38,375
do it. Meaning, even if it's we don't

1312
00:43:38,375 --> 00:43:40,055
have the ability to stop thinking about something.

1313
00:43:40,055 --> 00:43:42,055
If I tell you right now, stop thinking

1314
00:43:42,055 --> 00:43:44,535
about my hat. You can't stop thinking about

1315
00:43:44,535 --> 00:43:46,375
my hat. Sure. What you could do is

1316
00:43:46,375 --> 00:43:48,075
you could easily force yourself

1317
00:43:48,570 --> 00:43:51,050
to think about something else. Mhmm. I'm going

1318
00:43:51,050 --> 00:43:52,890
to sit here right now, and the way

1319
00:43:52,890 --> 00:43:54,010
that I'm gonna stop again, the more you're

1320
00:43:54,010 --> 00:43:55,130
feeding your brain, don't think about the hat,

1321
00:43:55,130 --> 00:43:56,250
don't think about the hat. You're gonna think

1322
00:43:56,250 --> 00:43:58,090
about that. Mhmm. But I'm going to think

1323
00:43:58,090 --> 00:44:00,250
about what I ate for breakfast. And I

1324
00:44:00,250 --> 00:44:01,530
want to think about what I could eat

1325
00:44:01,530 --> 00:44:03,950
for breakfast tomorrow. If you force yourself

1326
00:44:04,284 --> 00:44:06,684
with a mental toughness to think about that,

1327
00:44:06,684 --> 00:44:08,925
then the the thought of my hat or

1328
00:44:08,925 --> 00:44:10,545
in the context of sin

1329
00:44:10,844 --> 00:44:13,405
leaves your mind. Mhmm. So I use that

1330
00:44:13,405 --> 00:44:15,485
all the time when I have to sleep.

1331
00:44:15,485 --> 00:44:16,445
If I need to go to sleep and

1332
00:44:16,445 --> 00:44:17,885
have a humongous event the next day and,

1333
00:44:17,885 --> 00:44:19,029
like, that's the type of thing you read

1334
00:44:19,029 --> 00:44:21,609
that people lose sleep over, like, again,

1335
00:44:21,989 --> 00:44:23,750
what is in your control is the ability

1336
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:25,429
to fall asleep. If it's gonna continue to

1337
00:44:25,429 --> 00:44:27,029
overtake you while you're sleeping, that you would

1338
00:44:27,029 --> 00:44:28,869
get you can't control yourself so deeply, but

1339
00:44:28,869 --> 00:44:31,454
you just put on your brain It happens

1340
00:44:31,454 --> 00:44:33,535
all the time. I'm going to think about

1341
00:44:33,535 --> 00:44:35,715
something else. I'm gonna think about anything

1342
00:44:36,015 --> 00:44:36,515
besides

1343
00:44:36,894 --> 00:44:39,295
whatever is giving me anxiety right now. So

1344
00:44:39,295 --> 00:44:41,375
what keeps me up at night? Hopefully, nothing.

1345
00:44:41,375 --> 00:44:42,434
I try for nothing.

1346
00:44:42,815 --> 00:44:44,255
What keeps me up because I'm still working

1347
00:44:44,255 --> 00:44:45,375
and working and working and not ready to

1348
00:44:45,375 --> 00:44:47,239
go to sleep, that all the time. But

1349
00:44:47,380 --> 00:44:49,539
what are my concerns? I wouldn't say that

1350
00:44:49,539 --> 00:44:50,519
I I have

1351
00:44:50,820 --> 00:44:52,900
things that are giving me anxiety. It's more

1352
00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:55,460
just we're trying to proactively find as much

1353
00:44:55,460 --> 00:44:57,219
as possible as we could do to make

1354
00:44:57,219 --> 00:44:59,364
an impact on the community. Yeah. Are there

1355
00:44:59,364 --> 00:44:59,864
communal

1356
00:45:00,965 --> 00:45:03,644
nightmares given no. It's just what like, there

1357
00:45:03,644 --> 00:45:05,605
are bigger people for that. Yeah. There are

1358
00:45:05,605 --> 00:45:08,244
bigger, more important, more powerful people that are

1359
00:45:08,244 --> 00:45:10,325
tasked with those positions. For me, it's what

1360
00:45:10,325 --> 00:45:11,765
can we do to continue to make an

1361
00:45:11,765 --> 00:45:12,265
impact.

1362
00:45:12,619 --> 00:45:14,140
And when you say impact, like, to what

1363
00:45:14,140 --> 00:45:16,239
end would you say? To what end?

1364
00:45:16,619 --> 00:45:18,940
To make someone's life better, to make the

1365
00:45:18,940 --> 00:45:20,699
world a better place, to make the world

1366
00:45:20,699 --> 00:45:23,340
a more religious place Mhmm. To help I'm

1367
00:45:23,340 --> 00:45:24,780
not talking about on a global scale because

1368
00:45:24,780 --> 00:45:25,980
a global scale, by the way, it's very

1369
00:45:25,980 --> 00:45:28,034
hard to feel on a small scale to

1370
00:45:28,034 --> 00:45:30,594
make an impact on someone's life. Yeah. It's

1371
00:45:30,594 --> 00:45:32,434
much easier to fill and do within your

1372
00:45:32,434 --> 00:45:34,835
community, right, rather than And and that ultimately

1373
00:45:34,835 --> 00:45:36,275
is how you do on a bigger scale.

1374
00:45:36,275 --> 00:45:38,994
Yeah. Some people excuse themselves from doing on

1375
00:45:38,994 --> 00:45:40,594
a small scale because you're busy with global

1376
00:45:40,594 --> 00:45:42,329
aspirations, and it's it's hard to do it

1377
00:45:42,329 --> 00:45:43,610
like that. There are some people that can

1378
00:45:43,610 --> 00:45:45,769
pull it off. But Yeah. Well, we're about

1379
00:45:45,769 --> 00:45:46,730
out of time, and I feel bad we

1380
00:45:46,730 --> 00:45:48,090
went through this whole interview. And I haven't

1381
00:45:48,090 --> 00:45:49,630
even mentioned the name Jake Ratzliff,

1382
00:45:50,410 --> 00:45:52,190
until now. Ratzlaff. Ratzlaff.

1383
00:45:52,730 --> 00:45:55,070
There's our first step of correction, Ratzlaff.

1384
00:45:55,525 --> 00:45:56,344
Is that right?

1385
00:45:56,804 --> 00:45:59,545
It's not it's come on. It's the BYU

1386
00:45:59,764 --> 00:46:02,965
starting quarterback. Right? Put some respect on that,

1387
00:46:02,965 --> 00:46:05,224
Namjoon. No. They're let us all be corrected.

1388
00:46:05,605 --> 00:46:07,925
Retsloff. You don't you don't watch enough ESPN,

1389
00:46:07,925 --> 00:46:09,599
do you? I'm sure. As well.

1390
00:46:10,079 --> 00:46:11,680
Do they do they do a terrible job

1391
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,599
as well? The national media? Do they do

1392
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:16,239
better? These guys have especially, like, as American

1393
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:17,840
sports are becoming more and more like an

1394
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,079
international thing, like, these guys have to practice

1395
00:46:20,079 --> 00:46:21,700
those names. Yeah. Yeah. Are you a basketball

1396
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,394
guy? Oh, sure. Giannis Antetokounmpo. Oh, okay. That

1397
00:46:24,394 --> 00:46:25,835
one I haven't got. How many people trip

1398
00:46:25,835 --> 00:46:27,755
over that? I still hear people like Luca

1399
00:46:27,755 --> 00:46:27,914
Don

1400
00:46:28,554 --> 00:46:30,175
Donkic. Don Donsic.

1401
00:46:31,034 --> 00:46:32,954
You gotta practice these things in sports. I'm

1402
00:46:32,954 --> 00:46:34,554
doing it. So what's the I mean, you're

1403
00:46:34,554 --> 00:46:36,155
you're his rabbi. Is that a fair way

1404
00:46:36,155 --> 00:46:38,070
to frame it? I think at this point,

1405
00:46:38,070 --> 00:46:39,349
now that he's been enough headlines, he has

1406
00:46:39,349 --> 00:46:40,789
a lot of different rabbis that will,

1407
00:46:41,829 --> 00:46:43,990
but, yeah, here in Utah at least. The

1408
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:46,150
closest one if he needs to. I just

1409
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:48,070
spoke to him half an hour ago. Nice.

1410
00:46:48,070 --> 00:46:48,570
Awesome.

1411
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:51,050
Any story there? I mean, what what is

1412
00:46:51,295 --> 00:46:52,974
what is that how's that shift to the

1413
00:46:52,974 --> 00:46:55,215
dynamic in Utah County with having our starting

1414
00:46:55,215 --> 00:46:58,014
quarterback Jewish or any anything comes to mind?

1415
00:46:58,014 --> 00:47:00,094
I think that Jake is doing Jake has

1416
00:47:00,094 --> 00:47:02,255
the opportunity to do what your podcast aims

1417
00:47:02,255 --> 00:47:04,275
to do just so quickly.

1418
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:06,440
Mhmm. And that is that Jake is able

1419
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,699
to build bridges. Like, antisemitism

1420
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,880
or or lack of respect between faiths comes

1421
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:12,380
from

1422
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:13,819
a lack of familiarity

1423
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,039
with a person, I think. Like, when you're

1424
00:47:16,039 --> 00:47:18,119
looking at something as an abstract topic, an

1425
00:47:18,119 --> 00:47:20,944
abstract thing, because you have no experience with

1426
00:47:21,085 --> 00:47:23,644
people from that faith. Right? But I'll never

1427
00:47:23,644 --> 00:47:25,484
forget my first couple times driving into Provo

1428
00:47:25,484 --> 00:47:27,324
after we moved here. I was like, what

1429
00:47:27,324 --> 00:47:28,924
is going on? Like, I grew up as

1430
00:47:28,924 --> 00:47:31,005
a jazz fan. You don't drive through Salt

1431
00:47:31,005 --> 00:47:33,239
Lake City or anywhere and see people's, like,

1432
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,480
porches, like, decked out with with Utah Jazz

1433
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,280
flags. Yeah. When you drive into Provo, like,

1434
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:39,179
you see BYU

1435
00:47:39,559 --> 00:47:43,079
everywhere, BYU decals, BYU license plates, BYU flags,

1436
00:47:43,079 --> 00:47:44,539
BYU everything BYU.

1437
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,014
I was, like, amazed by it. And the

1438
00:47:48,014 --> 00:47:48,994
leading quarterback

1439
00:47:49,454 --> 00:47:52,355
of that team that you love is Jewish.

1440
00:47:52,734 --> 00:47:55,375
It's like, okay, like, you're getting all this

1441
00:47:55,375 --> 00:47:55,875
exposure

1442
00:47:56,255 --> 00:47:58,514
to somebody so quickly because

1443
00:47:58,974 --> 00:48:00,414
they share what you should like. He loves

1444
00:48:00,414 --> 00:48:01,775
football. I love football. He loves BYU. I

1445
00:48:01,775 --> 00:48:04,280
love BYU. It's like building that bridge so

1446
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,320
quickly. Yeah. That's cool. Anything else we haven't

1447
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,980
covered or important to squeeze in here? For

1448
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,119
the two point o. It's part two. You'll

1449
00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:13,500
do two part two with me?

1450
00:48:14,039 --> 00:48:16,534
Of course, please. You bring our studio audience

1451
00:48:16,534 --> 00:48:18,534
like this here? Yes. Couple of diet Cokes

1452
00:48:18,534 --> 00:48:19,755
for my friend over here.

1453
00:48:20,054 --> 00:48:22,214
Maybe a coffee for you without without a

1454
00:48:22,214 --> 00:48:24,315
phone cup. Never drink a coffee here.

1455
00:48:24,694 --> 00:48:26,534
Hey. I with no offense, they can hear

1456
00:48:26,534 --> 00:48:27,174
you. So

1457
00:48:27,869 --> 00:48:29,630
awesome. Well, last question I have for you.

1458
00:48:29,630 --> 00:48:31,230
Well, I We'll put some vague mugs, and

1459
00:48:31,230 --> 00:48:32,589
we could pretend it's water. There there we

1460
00:48:32,589 --> 00:48:33,789
go. There we go. Oh, you need you

1461
00:48:33,789 --> 00:48:35,949
need your branded like, that's podcast one zero

1462
00:48:35,949 --> 00:48:39,089
one. Please cut this out. I forget. Branson.

1463
00:48:39,150 --> 00:48:41,409
Branson, please cut this out of the podcast.

1464
00:48:41,744 --> 00:48:44,224
Podcast one zero one before the mics because,

1465
00:48:44,224 --> 00:48:45,344
like, some people will make do with, like,

1466
00:48:45,344 --> 00:48:47,184
ho these are fancy. The swag. Homemade mics

1467
00:48:47,184 --> 00:48:48,244
is the the branded

1468
00:48:48,545 --> 00:48:49,824
so if so there's two ways to do

1469
00:48:49,824 --> 00:48:52,224
it. There's, like, the branded mugs Uh-huh. With

1470
00:48:52,224 --> 00:48:54,065
your logo, or there's, like, the mugs that

1471
00:48:54,065 --> 00:48:55,904
have, like, product placement, like an advertisement. Yes.

1472
00:48:55,904 --> 00:48:57,059
Yes. Yes. But But we just have to

1473
00:48:57,059 --> 00:48:58,820
be very clear that it's not coffee in

1474
00:48:58,820 --> 00:49:00,660
the mug. I need a The judgment. A

1475
00:49:00,660 --> 00:49:03,860
Swig mug right here. Swig needs to sponsor

1476
00:49:03,860 --> 00:49:06,099
this podcast. Okay. Let's go ahead. I'm just

1477
00:49:06,099 --> 00:49:08,019
gonna resume. Alright. Right. Right. I'm joking. You

1478
00:49:08,019 --> 00:49:09,140
can put that. I just don't wanna be,

1479
00:49:09,140 --> 00:49:11,219
like, putting down the podcast that has invited

1480
00:49:11,219 --> 00:49:13,934
me here. That's great. So two questions to

1481
00:49:13,934 --> 00:49:16,014
finish off. One, if people do want more

1482
00:49:16,014 --> 00:49:18,255
information, whether in Utah County or elsewhere, I

1483
00:49:18,255 --> 00:49:20,014
mean, is there anywhere you'd send them? Do

1484
00:49:20,014 --> 00:49:21,454
you want them calling? Maybe you just want

1485
00:49:21,454 --> 00:49:22,734
them to leave you alone on on the

1486
00:49:22,734 --> 00:49:23,789
Sabbath? I don't know.

1487
00:49:24,269 --> 00:49:25,390
They they will not be able to reach

1488
00:49:25,390 --> 00:49:26,829
me on the Sabbath. I assure you. Yes.

1489
00:49:26,829 --> 00:49:29,710
Yes. My phone is off. Jewishutahcounty.com

1490
00:49:29,710 --> 00:49:31,150
or we're we try to be pretty active

1491
00:49:31,150 --> 00:49:33,630
on Instagram and Facebook. Yeah. I just this

1492
00:49:33,630 --> 00:49:35,630
morning, I posted I told you we're trying

1493
00:49:35,630 --> 00:49:37,070
to document our day. We'll post from here

1494
00:49:37,070 --> 00:49:38,575
too. I posted, oh, we're at BYU, and

1495
00:49:38,575 --> 00:49:39,855
I I went and gave the class, and

1496
00:49:39,855 --> 00:49:41,215
I pulled my phone out after because we're

1497
00:49:41,215 --> 00:49:43,295
not huge. We're a few hundred followers. Pull

1498
00:49:43,295 --> 00:49:44,655
my phone out, and I had a text

1499
00:49:44,655 --> 00:49:47,135
from someone. Hey. What class are you speaking

1500
00:49:47,135 --> 00:49:48,735
in? Like, can I come join? Oh, wow.

1501
00:49:48,735 --> 00:49:50,735
I was like, sorry. Tomorrow. We're back tomorrow.

1502
00:49:50,735 --> 00:49:53,390
But Cool. So Instagram and Facebook, Jewish Utah

1503
00:49:53,390 --> 00:49:55,630
County. Nice. Last question I have, and it's

1504
00:49:55,630 --> 00:49:57,390
sort of modified from the one I typically

1505
00:49:57,390 --> 00:49:59,150
ask is, as you reflect on your time

1506
00:49:59,150 --> 00:50:00,450
as a spiritual

1507
00:50:00,910 --> 00:50:02,910
leader, how has being a leader helped you

1508
00:50:02,910 --> 00:50:05,144
become a better follower of your faith? Oh,

1509
00:50:05,144 --> 00:50:05,644
it's

1510
00:50:05,945 --> 00:50:06,605
so easy.

1511
00:50:07,224 --> 00:50:07,965
Some people,

1512
00:50:08,344 --> 00:50:10,204
like, have a really hard time

1513
00:50:10,744 --> 00:50:12,125
focusing on themselves,

1514
00:50:12,585 --> 00:50:14,525
on, like, when you reach moments of intensity

1515
00:50:14,824 --> 00:50:17,144
that you have to observe. Some people want

1516
00:50:17,144 --> 00:50:18,505
that, and it's like, I need my moment

1517
00:50:18,505 --> 00:50:19,085
to focus.

1518
00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:21,920
For some people, like, you're just wired

1519
00:50:22,300 --> 00:50:24,380
to work. You're wired to be busy. You're

1520
00:50:24,380 --> 00:50:25,579
wired to help people. When you have to

1521
00:50:25,579 --> 00:50:27,340
stop and, like, focus on yourself, it's like

1522
00:50:27,420 --> 00:50:29,179
it's hard. And as far as I've seen,

1523
00:50:29,179 --> 00:50:30,539
like, there are people on each extreme. So,

1524
00:50:30,539 --> 00:50:32,059
like, what I'm describing, some people are like,

1525
00:50:32,059 --> 00:50:33,099
yeah. That's me. And some people are gonna

1526
00:50:33,099 --> 00:50:34,574
be like, what are you talking about? Like,

1527
00:50:34,734 --> 00:50:36,894
I wish I had the time to focus

1528
00:50:36,894 --> 00:50:38,815
on myself more. But, like, when you are

1529
00:50:38,974 --> 00:50:40,414
let's say, when it comes to a holiday

1530
00:50:40,414 --> 00:50:40,914
observance

1531
00:50:41,454 --> 00:50:43,614
or an initiative that you're pushing and you're

1532
00:50:43,614 --> 00:50:44,755
you're helping others,

1533
00:50:45,135 --> 00:50:47,135
it just makes an impact on you, like,

1534
00:50:47,135 --> 00:50:47,635
accidentally.

1535
00:50:48,655 --> 00:50:51,150
So, like, it's just yeah. I've always been

1536
00:50:51,150 --> 00:50:53,389
a person that had a much easier time

1537
00:50:53,389 --> 00:50:55,469
feeling the intensity of a day, whether it's,

1538
00:50:55,469 --> 00:50:57,789
like, with the high holidays or or Hanukkah

1539
00:50:57,789 --> 00:50:59,650
or anything else in between. Right? Hanukkah.

1540
00:51:00,030 --> 00:51:01,309
When you're with your family, you might not

1541
00:51:01,309 --> 00:51:03,070
even feel it as much, even though that's

1542
00:51:03,070 --> 00:51:04,349
the way it should be, as much as

1543
00:51:04,349 --> 00:51:07,085
when you're doing it on no sleep, throwing

1544
00:51:07,085 --> 00:51:10,125
crazy programs and running in circles, like, you

1545
00:51:10,125 --> 00:51:11,724
end up with a lot deeper of a

1546
00:51:11,724 --> 00:51:13,804
feeling for it that way. That's how my

1547
00:51:13,804 --> 00:51:14,625
brain is wired.

1548
00:51:22,030 --> 00:51:24,670
That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints

1549
00:51:24,670 --> 00:51:26,590
podcast. Hey. Listen. Would you do me a

1550
00:51:26,590 --> 00:51:28,910
favor? You know, everybody's got that friend who

1551
00:51:28,910 --> 00:51:30,530
listens to a ton of podcasts,

1552
00:51:30,835 --> 00:51:33,074
and maybe they aren't aware of Leading Saints.

1553
00:51:33,074 --> 00:51:34,994
So would you mind taking the link of

1554
00:51:34,994 --> 00:51:37,474
this episode or another episode of Leading Saints

1555
00:51:37,474 --> 00:51:39,554
and just texting it to that friend? You

1556
00:51:39,554 --> 00:51:41,315
know who you I'm talking about, the friend

1557
00:51:41,315 --> 00:51:43,635
who always listens to podcasts and is always

1558
00:51:43,635 --> 00:51:45,474
telling you about different podcasts. Well, it's your

1559
00:51:45,474 --> 00:51:48,099
turn to tell that friend about Leading Saints.

1560
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,239
So share it. We'd also love to hear

1561
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,079
from you. If you have any perspective or

1562
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:53,760
thought on this episode, you can go to

1563
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:54,800
leadingsaints.org

1564
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,460
and actually leave a comment on the, episode

1565
00:51:57,519 --> 00:51:59,675
page, or reach out to us at leading

1566
00:51:59,675 --> 00:52:02,235
saints dot org slash contact. And remember, to

1567
00:52:02,235 --> 00:52:04,235
get on the email newsletter list, simply go

1568
00:52:04,235 --> 00:52:06,414
to leadingsaints.org/fourteen.

1569
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:18,579
It came as a result of the position

1570
00:52:18,639 --> 00:52:21,619
of leadership which was imposed upon us

1571
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,164
by the God of heaven who brought

1572
00:52:24,485 --> 00:52:27,785
forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus

1573
00:52:27,925 --> 00:52:28,425
Christ.

1574
00:52:28,965 --> 00:52:30,105
And when the declaration

1575
00:52:30,405 --> 00:52:33,684
was made concerning the own and only true

1576
00:52:33,684 --> 00:52:36,085
and living Church upon the face of the

1577
00:52:36,085 --> 00:52:36,539
earth,

1578
00:52:37,099 --> 00:52:39,760
We were immediately put in a position of

1579
00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:40,400
loneliness,

1580
00:52:40,780 --> 00:52:42,320
the loneliness of leadership

1581
00:52:43,019 --> 00:52:46,000
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,

1582
00:52:46,699 --> 00:52:49,179
and to which we must face up with

1583
00:52:49,179 --> 00:52:50,719
boldness and courage

1584
00:52:51,260 --> 00:52:52,000
and ability.