1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,839
Does a youth leader ever feel like they

2
00:00:03,839 --> 00:00:05,759
have it figured out? This hasn't been my

3
00:00:05,759 --> 00:00:06,259
experience.

4
00:00:06,639 --> 00:00:09,359
However, I couldn't be an effective youth leader

5
00:00:09,359 --> 00:00:12,639
today without Dan Duckworth's presentation about going from

6
00:00:12,639 --> 00:00:15,384
youth worker to youth mentor. Mentorship is a

7
00:00:15,384 --> 00:00:17,945
key concept to understand when leading youth. In

8
00:00:17,945 --> 00:00:18,684
his presentation,

9
00:00:19,144 --> 00:00:21,545
Dan talks about ways to really turn the

10
00:00:21,545 --> 00:00:24,184
traditional approach to leading youth on its head.

11
00:00:24,184 --> 00:00:26,265
How can you better know your purpose? How

12
00:00:26,265 --> 00:00:27,885
can you find out their life goals?

13
00:00:28,230 --> 00:00:30,230
How can you build a relationship that is

14
00:00:30,230 --> 00:00:32,950
transformational rather than simply filling time during the

15
00:00:32,950 --> 00:00:34,170
weekly youth activity?

16
00:00:34,469 --> 00:00:36,090
You can watch Dan's presentation

17
00:00:36,549 --> 00:00:38,950
in the Young Saints virtual library by going

18
00:00:38,950 --> 00:00:39,929
to leading saints.org/14.

19
00:00:41,315 --> 00:00:43,395
You'll get free access for 14 days, and

20
00:00:43,395 --> 00:00:45,234
that will give you plenty of time to

21
00:00:45,234 --> 00:00:46,295
watch Dan's presentation

22
00:00:46,674 --> 00:00:49,174
a few times. Let's give youth the leadership

23
00:00:49,315 --> 00:00:50,054
they deserve.

24
00:00:55,010 --> 00:00:56,770
I got an email the other day from

25
00:00:56,770 --> 00:00:58,450
an individual, I forget where he is in

26
00:00:58,450 --> 00:01:00,049
the world, but he says, Kurt, I love

27
00:01:00,049 --> 00:01:02,689
Leading Saints and I listen to it every

28
00:01:02,689 --> 00:01:05,250
time I'm on the treadmill. And then one

29
00:01:05,250 --> 00:01:07,810
time during an interview, he heard that Leading

30
00:01:07,810 --> 00:01:10,295
Saints has a YouTube channel and, like, all

31
00:01:10,295 --> 00:01:12,615
the interviews, at least the vast majority of

32
00:01:12,615 --> 00:01:13,115
them

33
00:01:13,495 --> 00:01:15,895
are video recorded and you can watch the

34
00:01:15,895 --> 00:01:18,775
video recording of the podcast episodes. And I'm,

35
00:01:18,775 --> 00:01:21,255
like, yeah, man. Get on there. Go subscribe

36
00:01:21,255 --> 00:01:23,459
on YouTube to Leading Saints and you can

37
00:01:23,620 --> 00:01:25,700
get a visual of the interview and not

38
00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:27,560
just an audio experience.

39
00:01:27,939 --> 00:01:29,959
And even if you're not a big YouTube

40
00:01:30,019 --> 00:01:32,260
user, do us a favor because this actually

41
00:01:32,260 --> 00:01:33,859
helps us gain more reach and,

42
00:01:34,659 --> 00:01:35,959
expose our content

43
00:01:36,435 --> 00:01:38,754
to individuals who could really benefit from it,

44
00:01:38,754 --> 00:01:41,394
leaders around the world. So regardless if you

45
00:01:41,394 --> 00:01:43,075
are on YouTube a lot or not, go

46
00:01:43,075 --> 00:01:45,155
to YouTube and search for Leading Saints, find

47
00:01:45,155 --> 00:01:47,635
the familiar red logo, and just subscribe even

48
00:01:47,635 --> 00:01:50,290
if you don't plan to view every episode

49
00:01:50,290 --> 00:01:52,450
there. That's gonna help us, gain a larger

50
00:01:52,450 --> 00:01:55,109
audience and more reach, dial in the algorithm,

51
00:01:55,569 --> 00:01:58,849
and, we'll start showing up on leaders feeds

52
00:01:58,849 --> 00:02:01,250
that they didn't know how much they're missing

53
00:02:01,250 --> 00:02:03,384
here at Leading Saints. So head on over

54
00:02:03,384 --> 00:02:05,965
to YouTube, search for Leading Saints, and subscribe

55
00:02:06,344 --> 00:02:08,504
to our channel. And leave a comment every

56
00:02:08,504 --> 00:02:10,125
once in a while, but be nice.

57
00:02:20,009 --> 00:02:21,689
Alright. In this episode, I get to let

58
00:02:21,689 --> 00:02:23,930
my hair down and relax. I'm here with

59
00:02:23,930 --> 00:02:26,169
my friend, Dan, Dan Duckworth. Get to let

60
00:02:26,169 --> 00:02:28,590
his hair grow. That's right. I I lived

61
00:02:28,810 --> 00:02:31,465
down. So the board of directors leading Saints,

62
00:02:31,604 --> 00:02:33,604
you're really running the show by? Oh, yeah.

63
00:02:33,604 --> 00:02:35,284
I'm pulling all the puppet strings. You could

64
00:02:35,284 --> 00:02:37,525
just see your arms moving around. Boss. So

65
00:02:37,685 --> 00:02:39,604
but Dan and I, obviously, good friends, but

66
00:02:39,604 --> 00:02:41,604
we work together in our efforts of leading

67
00:02:41,604 --> 00:02:44,120
Saints here. You run a leadership organization

68
00:02:44,740 --> 00:02:46,180
for your day job, but we have the

69
00:02:46,180 --> 00:02:48,659
greatest conversations. We have the greatest podcast episodes

70
00:02:48,659 --> 00:02:50,819
that will never be heard. And so anytime

71
00:02:50,819 --> 00:02:51,939
I can just pull you in here and

72
00:02:51,939 --> 00:02:54,020
say, let's just chat about stuff. There's always

73
00:02:54,020 --> 00:02:56,014
something that comes out of it. So anything

74
00:02:56,014 --> 00:02:57,775
else you'd add to that, like, when people

75
00:02:57,775 --> 00:02:59,575
ask you, what is this Leading Saints you're

76
00:02:59,575 --> 00:03:01,215
a part of or or what is it

77
00:03:01,215 --> 00:03:02,574
you do? Well, I don't know. I mean,

78
00:03:02,574 --> 00:03:04,415
I just was at lunch with some folks

79
00:03:04,415 --> 00:03:06,495
and Leading Saints came up because this guy

80
00:03:06,495 --> 00:03:08,814
works helping nonprofits, and so I was kinda

81
00:03:08,814 --> 00:03:10,469
picking his brain a little bit. And, you

82
00:03:10,469 --> 00:03:12,409
know, they always wanna know what's it about.

83
00:03:12,469 --> 00:03:13,290
Right? And

84
00:03:13,830 --> 00:03:16,069
the lead off is always, well, we started

85
00:03:16,069 --> 00:03:16,889
as a podcast.

86
00:03:17,189 --> 00:03:17,689
Right?

87
00:03:17,990 --> 00:03:20,069
But if you could only see what we're

88
00:03:20,069 --> 00:03:22,230
gonna become. Yeah. And so he his ears

89
00:03:22,230 --> 00:03:23,784
kinda perked. And so, we got to talk

90
00:03:23,784 --> 00:03:25,705
a little bit about that, right? This idea

91
00:03:25,705 --> 00:03:28,344
of a mission to help bring Zion into

92
00:03:28,344 --> 00:03:31,164
the the local experience of the church, right?

93
00:03:31,305 --> 00:03:32,664
And so, I think that's kind of the

94
00:03:32,664 --> 00:03:34,104
exciting stuff that we get to talk about

95
00:03:34,104 --> 00:03:36,264
and work on as an organization is where

96
00:03:36,264 --> 00:03:37,625
is this headed? What is it that we're

97
00:03:37,625 --> 00:03:40,719
creating? Right? We've amassed a followership of 100

98
00:03:40,719 --> 00:03:42,500
of 1000 of people, and

99
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,680
how do we use that influence to further

100
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,520
the work of the church? Yeah. And so

101
00:03:47,599 --> 00:03:49,040
and that's and, I mean, this is a

102
00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:50,960
conversation we have about Zion Building and things,

103
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,534
and that might be framed in maybe a

104
00:03:52,534 --> 00:03:54,215
new way for the audience, but definitely the

105
00:03:54,215 --> 00:03:56,375
direction we're headed. How would you say, like,

106
00:03:56,375 --> 00:03:58,455
how is that attached to leadership? Why Leading

107
00:03:58,455 --> 00:04:00,775
Saints? Why not the Zion podcast or something?

108
00:04:00,775 --> 00:04:02,615
Like, why is that a leadership thing? Yeah.

109
00:04:02,615 --> 00:04:04,534
Yeah. Interestingly enough, these guys were a couple

110
00:04:04,534 --> 00:04:06,215
of marketers that I was with, and they

111
00:04:06,215 --> 00:04:08,430
instantly said, we love the name Leading Saints

112
00:04:08,430 --> 00:04:10,990
because it's so specific. It just, like, leans

113
00:04:10,990 --> 00:04:13,230
right in, like, clearly for Latter day Saints,

114
00:04:13,230 --> 00:04:14,530
clearly about leadership.

115
00:04:14,909 --> 00:04:16,770
And, you know, when you think about Zion,

116
00:04:16,830 --> 00:04:17,730
if you think about

117
00:04:18,189 --> 00:04:21,605
the definition of Zion being an exalted community,

118
00:04:21,605 --> 00:04:24,245
a unified community, right, gathering in Christ, this

119
00:04:24,245 --> 00:04:25,444
is a group of people who are of

120
00:04:25,444 --> 00:04:27,925
one heart and of one mind. That never

121
00:04:27,925 --> 00:04:28,425
happens

122
00:04:28,884 --> 00:04:31,545
without leadership. Mhmm. Zion is always

123
00:04:31,925 --> 00:04:33,625
the byproduct of transformational

124
00:04:33,925 --> 00:04:36,230
leadership. I shouldn't say the byproduct. It's the

125
00:04:36,230 --> 00:04:38,470
goal. It is the dream of all true

126
00:04:38,470 --> 00:04:40,790
leaders is to create a Zion community. And

127
00:04:40,790 --> 00:04:43,029
so those things are inseparable. They're two sides

128
00:04:43,029 --> 00:04:44,870
of the same coin. You can't have Zion

129
00:04:44,870 --> 00:04:47,670
unless you have transformational leadership because the current

130
00:04:47,670 --> 00:04:48,165
state

131
00:04:48,485 --> 00:04:51,925
is not Zion. Right? And without leadership, any

132
00:04:51,925 --> 00:04:54,425
Zion community would break down in entropy towards

133
00:04:54,485 --> 00:04:57,205
disorder and ultimately destruction and death. Yeah. And

134
00:04:57,205 --> 00:04:59,925
so leadership is the function of constantly either

135
00:04:59,925 --> 00:05:01,545
creating or constantly renewing

136
00:05:01,925 --> 00:05:04,479
the spirit of that community and the, you

137
00:05:04,479 --> 00:05:06,479
know, the the unity and the basis for

138
00:05:06,479 --> 00:05:08,720
their their identity. Yeah. I have to frame,

139
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,120
like, like, leadership is simply like culture building,

140
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,159
right, or establishing culture. Like, anything a leader

141
00:05:14,159 --> 00:05:16,479
does, you're contributing to a culture so that

142
00:05:16,479 --> 00:05:18,240
it's not up to you to do or

143
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,545
you're not prodding people along. Just the nature

144
00:05:20,545 --> 00:05:22,785
of that community is is moving in that

145
00:05:22,785 --> 00:05:24,545
positive direction. And I think what's the most

146
00:05:24,545 --> 00:05:27,345
like religious word for culture? And I think

147
00:05:27,345 --> 00:05:29,425
Zion. Right? Like, that's what we're we're trying

148
00:05:29,425 --> 00:05:31,585
to to to establish a culture establish a

149
00:05:31,585 --> 00:05:34,050
culture in our faith community. And that's Zion.

150
00:05:34,050 --> 00:05:37,089
Right? And there's so much theology that confirms

151
00:05:37,089 --> 00:05:39,009
that. Yeah. Yeah. And you can see that

152
00:05:39,009 --> 00:05:41,250
every new leader who's called, they have this

153
00:05:41,250 --> 00:05:43,009
desire. Well, I shouldn't say every, but those

154
00:05:43,009 --> 00:05:45,169
who identify as leaders who get called into

155
00:05:45,169 --> 00:05:47,729
leadership positions, they immediately have this desire to

156
00:05:47,729 --> 00:05:50,115
create Zion. Right? How do we create this

157
00:05:50,115 --> 00:05:50,615
amazing

158
00:05:51,154 --> 00:05:51,654
extraordinary

159
00:05:52,115 --> 00:05:54,514
community together, whether it's an award council or

160
00:05:54,514 --> 00:05:56,274
award or branch or relief society or an

161
00:05:56,274 --> 00:05:57,954
elders quorum? Right? You were just called as

162
00:05:57,954 --> 00:06:00,514
an elders quorum president. Instantly, your heart and

163
00:06:00,514 --> 00:06:02,194
mind went to, how do we transform this

164
00:06:02,194 --> 00:06:04,660
thing into something amazing? Mhmm. That's I am.

165
00:06:04,660 --> 00:06:07,139
Yeah. And sometimes on a superficial level people

166
00:06:07,139 --> 00:06:09,139
when they hear culture that, you know, the

167
00:06:09,139 --> 00:06:11,220
phrase of, you know, oh, that's not doctrine,

168
00:06:11,220 --> 00:06:13,139
it's culture. And sometimes there's this feeling of

169
00:06:13,139 --> 00:06:15,139
we gotta get rid of the culture or

170
00:06:15,139 --> 00:06:16,419
or, you know, culture is bad. We just

171
00:06:16,419 --> 00:06:18,099
need to focus on doctrine when in reality,

172
00:06:18,099 --> 00:06:19,620
it's not about getting rid of the culture.

173
00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:22,334
It's about stimulating a really positive culture

174
00:06:22,954 --> 00:06:25,754
that then facilitates the doctor. Right? Yeah. And

175
00:06:25,754 --> 00:06:27,834
culture, as we talk about in our leadership

176
00:06:27,834 --> 00:06:30,555
programs, culture is a hidden force. It's the

177
00:06:30,555 --> 00:06:32,254
memory of a 1,000 moments.

178
00:06:32,750 --> 00:06:35,710
So more formally, culture is the imprint that

179
00:06:35,710 --> 00:06:37,550
the past makes on our choices in the

180
00:06:37,550 --> 00:06:39,629
present. So we remember the way things have

181
00:06:39,629 --> 00:06:41,870
done have been done. We remember the behaviors

182
00:06:41,870 --> 00:06:43,870
that get rewarded. We remember the behaviors that

183
00:06:43,870 --> 00:06:46,974
get punished. Right? And so over time, the

184
00:06:46,974 --> 00:06:50,115
goal of the community becomes survival. Mhmm. Individuals

185
00:06:50,574 --> 00:06:52,894
and the collective, it becomes survival. And so

186
00:06:52,894 --> 00:06:55,314
now the culture starts to reinforce the behaviors

187
00:06:55,454 --> 00:06:58,115
that keep us safe and comfortable and predictable.

188
00:06:58,430 --> 00:07:01,149
Right? When those behaviors no longer align with

189
00:07:01,149 --> 00:07:03,569
the ultimate goals and objectives of the organization,

190
00:07:03,709 --> 00:07:06,110
now culture is a problem because culture is

191
00:07:06,110 --> 00:07:08,750
keeping us entrenched in the status quo. But

192
00:07:08,750 --> 00:07:09,730
the work of leaders

193
00:07:10,189 --> 00:07:12,509
is to not only transcend that culture, but

194
00:07:12,509 --> 00:07:15,104
ultimately transform it so that you have a

195
00:07:15,104 --> 00:07:17,584
culture, you have a memory that now aligns

196
00:07:17,584 --> 00:07:18,964
with your highest objectives,

197
00:07:19,345 --> 00:07:21,904
your highest ideals. And when the culture begins

198
00:07:21,904 --> 00:07:24,084
to support that, it becomes a very positive

199
00:07:24,224 --> 00:07:26,899
force because people can step in, and they

200
00:07:26,899 --> 00:07:28,819
know immediately this is how we roll here.

201
00:07:28,819 --> 00:07:30,419
These are the behaviors that get us the

202
00:07:30,419 --> 00:07:32,579
results that we want. We've transcended the need

203
00:07:32,579 --> 00:07:33,560
to be comfortable

204
00:07:33,939 --> 00:07:35,699
or the need to be safe. Now we're

205
00:07:35,699 --> 00:07:37,479
focused on culture and behaviors

206
00:07:37,779 --> 00:07:39,620
that align with whatever it is our mission

207
00:07:39,620 --> 00:07:40,274
is about,

208
00:07:40,595 --> 00:07:42,514
whether it's, you know, bringing on the second

209
00:07:42,514 --> 00:07:44,595
coming of Jesus Christ or preparing for it,

210
00:07:44,595 --> 00:07:46,514
whether it's, you know, ministering to the sick

211
00:07:46,514 --> 00:07:47,654
and the and the afflicted.

212
00:07:48,115 --> 00:07:49,555
All of a sudden, the culture aligns with

213
00:07:49,555 --> 00:07:51,894
that, and that's when you get great results.

214
00:07:52,035 --> 00:07:54,660
Yeah. And in our faith tradition, I mean,

215
00:07:54,660 --> 00:07:56,259
we have a a strong tradition of, you

216
00:07:56,259 --> 00:07:57,779
know, we we wanna follow the brethren. We

217
00:07:57,779 --> 00:07:59,060
don't wanna get ahead of the brethren. We

218
00:07:59,060 --> 00:08:00,899
sort of wait for those cultural cues to

219
00:08:00,899 --> 00:08:03,139
come down from the general authorities of the

220
00:08:03,139 --> 00:08:05,295
general church and so we sort of wait

221
00:08:05,295 --> 00:08:07,235
for that, and we don't give ourselves permission

222
00:08:07,775 --> 00:08:09,455
to to simulate culture. We feel like, oh,

223
00:08:09,455 --> 00:08:11,055
that's not my that's not my role. My

224
00:08:11,055 --> 00:08:12,335
role is to make sure the doors are

225
00:08:12,335 --> 00:08:14,335
unlocked on Sunday, the lights get turned on,

226
00:08:14,335 --> 00:08:16,435
and we have someone to pass the sacrament.

227
00:08:16,495 --> 00:08:18,975
Right? And that's sometimes a very limiting place.

228
00:08:18,975 --> 00:08:20,415
So, I mean, what what comes to mind

229
00:08:20,415 --> 00:08:22,400
with getting people out of that? Or or

230
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,000
sometimes it feels like, no. This is not

231
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,080
okay. We gotta just wait for the general

232
00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:27,600
church to tell us what to do. No.

233
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,520
This is a problem. Right? This is a

234
00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,040
problem. The the analogy that's been on my

235
00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,315
mind recently is Jacob chapter 5, where it's

236
00:08:33,315 --> 00:08:35,154
the allegory of the olive tree, and you

237
00:08:35,154 --> 00:08:36,434
got the lord of the vineyard who comes

238
00:08:36,434 --> 00:08:38,514
down and he gives instructions. Okay? So over

239
00:08:38,514 --> 00:08:40,514
the past 5 or 10 years, not so

240
00:08:40,514 --> 00:08:42,355
much in recent years, but the first few

241
00:08:42,355 --> 00:08:44,595
years of president Nelson's ministry and even for

242
00:08:44,595 --> 00:08:46,059
the 5 years before that, we were getting

243
00:08:46,059 --> 00:08:48,299
these directives from Salt Lake saying, we want

244
00:08:48,299 --> 00:08:50,159
you to change the way we do things.

245
00:08:50,299 --> 00:08:51,659
We want you to change the way we

246
00:08:51,659 --> 00:08:55,019
do ministering or Sunday school or the youth

247
00:08:55,019 --> 00:08:55,519
programs,

248
00:08:55,980 --> 00:08:58,059
sacramanities, whatever it is. Right? We want things

249
00:08:58,059 --> 00:09:00,394
to change. And then in the analogy of

250
00:09:00,394 --> 00:09:01,215
the vineyard,

251
00:09:01,595 --> 00:09:03,835
the laborers are supposed to go labor and

252
00:09:03,835 --> 00:09:06,075
to do the work of making change. But

253
00:09:06,075 --> 00:09:08,075
we've got this scenario, by and large. We've

254
00:09:08,075 --> 00:09:10,394
had some great examples where leaders took those

255
00:09:10,394 --> 00:09:12,475
new instructions, and they went and created, and

256
00:09:12,475 --> 00:09:14,475
they innovated, and they they did the kind

257
00:09:14,475 --> 00:09:16,709
of culture building work that you're talking about.

258
00:09:16,850 --> 00:09:19,169
But by and large, if you're paying attention

259
00:09:19,169 --> 00:09:21,649
and observing across the church, we've got the

260
00:09:21,649 --> 00:09:23,889
same behaviors and the same outcomes that we

261
00:09:23,889 --> 00:09:25,829
had before those changes were implemented.

262
00:09:26,129 --> 00:09:27,850
And to me, that's analogous to the lord

263
00:09:27,850 --> 00:09:29,750
of the vineyard came down, he gave instructions,

264
00:09:30,129 --> 00:09:32,245
and the laborers in the Vineyard, who are

265
00:09:32,245 --> 00:09:34,485
the leaders of the church, whether they're called

266
00:09:34,485 --> 00:09:35,304
or otherwise,

267
00:09:35,605 --> 00:09:37,365
sort of sat back and said, oh, okay.

268
00:09:37,365 --> 00:09:38,644
I guess this is the new way it's

269
00:09:38,644 --> 00:09:40,725
gonna be. These branches are just gonna graft

270
00:09:40,725 --> 00:09:42,485
themselves in over here, and that's gonna move

271
00:09:42,565 --> 00:09:44,004
you know, this is all just gonna happen

272
00:09:44,004 --> 00:09:45,870
because we got the word from on high.

273
00:09:45,950 --> 00:09:47,870
No. No. The the parable is, it came

274
00:09:47,870 --> 00:09:49,629
down and gave instructions, and it was the

275
00:09:49,629 --> 00:09:50,129
laborers

276
00:09:50,589 --> 00:09:53,149
who went and made those changes happen. Yeah.

277
00:09:53,149 --> 00:09:54,750
Yeah. And that's and that's the power of

278
00:09:54,750 --> 00:09:57,570
culture. Right? That just sucks us back into

279
00:09:57,789 --> 00:10:00,924
the status quo. And, because, you know, again,

280
00:10:00,924 --> 00:10:03,084
not that we're trying to be generally critical

281
00:10:03,084 --> 00:10:05,164
of the the programs things, but I mean,

282
00:10:05,164 --> 00:10:07,245
how different is a ministering look from home

283
00:10:07,245 --> 00:10:07,745
teaching,

284
00:10:08,204 --> 00:10:09,964
you know, or Sunday school class since come

285
00:10:09,964 --> 00:10:11,964
follow me? Like, the Sunday school feel different

286
00:10:11,964 --> 00:10:14,620
generally speaking or just the 2 hour churches

287
00:10:14,620 --> 00:10:16,540
that really shifted much. Some may say it's

288
00:10:16,540 --> 00:10:18,779
actually hurt the culture of a local ward

289
00:10:18,779 --> 00:10:20,779
because we're not engaging enough type of thing.

290
00:10:20,779 --> 00:10:22,540
So Let me tell you about this this

291
00:10:22,540 --> 00:10:24,779
analogy. So I was reading I was reading

292
00:10:24,779 --> 00:10:27,415
in, the come follow me curriculum. Right? So

293
00:10:27,415 --> 00:10:29,575
3rd Nephi recently is what I was reading.

294
00:10:29,575 --> 00:10:32,455
And I come across this example that just

295
00:10:32,455 --> 00:10:33,595
hits me in the face

296
00:10:33,975 --> 00:10:36,855
where the people have been through traumatic experience

297
00:10:36,855 --> 00:10:39,254
with the the earthquakes, the storms, the the

298
00:10:39,254 --> 00:10:41,250
tempest, all those things. They're through 3 days

299
00:10:41,250 --> 00:10:43,170
of darkness. There's all kinds of weeping and

300
00:10:43,170 --> 00:10:45,410
howling going on, and then they hear the

301
00:10:45,410 --> 00:10:47,330
voice of Christ in the darkness, and it

302
00:10:47,330 --> 00:10:48,550
pierces through the darkness.

303
00:10:48,930 --> 00:10:51,490
And over the course of this entreaty where

304
00:10:51,490 --> 00:10:53,730
Christ is saying, I would gather you. I

305
00:10:53,730 --> 00:10:55,575
would gather you. I will gather you.

306
00:10:55,894 --> 00:10:59,095
Suddenly, their grief, which has been beyond human

307
00:10:59,095 --> 00:11:02,294
description, it turns into inexplicable joy. And what

308
00:11:02,294 --> 00:11:04,455
do they do next? K? This was really

309
00:11:04,455 --> 00:11:07,115
striking to me. They weren't given instructions.

310
00:11:07,495 --> 00:11:09,894
It wasn't Sunday morning at 9 AM. But

311
00:11:09,894 --> 00:11:11,500
what did they do next? They went to

312
00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:12,159
the temple

313
00:11:12,539 --> 00:11:15,259
to gather. Mhmm. And it says very specifically

314
00:11:15,259 --> 00:11:16,000
in the scripture,

315
00:11:16,779 --> 00:11:19,820
they gathered so that they could marvel and

316
00:11:19,820 --> 00:11:20,320
wonder

317
00:11:20,860 --> 00:11:23,419
and show each other the great changes that

318
00:11:23,419 --> 00:11:25,875
had been taking place. And as I read

319
00:11:25,875 --> 00:11:27,634
that read that, I saw it just hit

320
00:11:27,634 --> 00:11:30,615
me. That is the natural order of church.

321
00:11:30,674 --> 00:11:32,855
Mhmm. I don't mean the institution of church.

322
00:11:32,914 --> 00:11:34,914
I mean, the idea that those who are

323
00:11:34,914 --> 00:11:38,054
affected by Christ want to gather in Christ.

324
00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:40,720
Very naturally, we wanna find others and say,

325
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,720
hey. You know, you can think about this

326
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:44,319
in terms of the episodes in the New

327
00:11:44,319 --> 00:11:46,319
Testament. Like, people are saying, like, hey, Jesus

328
00:11:46,319 --> 00:11:48,079
healed me. Yeah. And they wanna go about,

329
00:11:48,079 --> 00:11:50,079
and Jesus is even saying, hold on. It's

330
00:11:50,079 --> 00:11:52,319
not time yet. Mhmm. Because the natural instinct

331
00:11:52,319 --> 00:11:54,404
is to say, who else is out there?

332
00:11:54,625 --> 00:11:56,144
If you don't know about this, I wanna

333
00:11:56,144 --> 00:11:57,825
tell you about the great changes. I wanna

334
00:11:57,825 --> 00:11:59,985
show. I wanna marvel. I wanna wonder. And

335
00:11:59,985 --> 00:12:02,384
if you've had this change happen with you,

336
00:12:02,384 --> 00:12:04,705
I wanna hear you Yeah. Marvel and wonder

337
00:12:04,705 --> 00:12:06,809
about these things. And so as I'm list

338
00:12:06,889 --> 00:12:08,490
or as I'm reading that, I'm taking that

339
00:12:08,490 --> 00:12:10,730
in. I'm also right now, I'm serving as

340
00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:12,649
a Stake Sunday school president. I've been doing

341
00:12:12,649 --> 00:12:14,490
that for about 18 months. And so I

342
00:12:14,490 --> 00:12:15,470
think a lot

343
00:12:15,929 --> 00:12:18,169
about the nature of teaching and what is

344
00:12:18,169 --> 00:12:20,165
what is the experience and the outcomes that

345
00:12:20,165 --> 00:12:22,024
we're creating in our Sunday school classes,

346
00:12:22,404 --> 00:12:24,725
but also in sacraman meetings and and other

347
00:12:24,725 --> 00:12:27,125
settings. And it just suddenly strikes me this

348
00:12:27,125 --> 00:12:28,024
huge contrast

349
00:12:28,485 --> 00:12:30,745
between what we experience in a typical

350
00:12:31,179 --> 00:12:33,259
church setting, typical Sunday school class, if you

351
00:12:33,259 --> 00:12:35,120
will, versus that spontaneous,

352
00:12:36,139 --> 00:12:38,000
fluid, dynamic exchange

353
00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:39,120
of witness

354
00:12:39,660 --> 00:12:42,220
of Jesus Christ. Right? So those who have

355
00:12:42,220 --> 00:12:44,379
experienced it can come and show and marvel

356
00:12:44,379 --> 00:12:46,745
to others, and those who haven't experienced it

357
00:12:46,745 --> 00:12:49,225
but desperately need it can bask in that

358
00:12:49,225 --> 00:12:51,625
light of, wow. If he did that for

359
00:12:51,625 --> 00:12:53,964
you Mhmm. What could he do for me?

360
00:12:54,184 --> 00:12:58,125
Right? Very, very different conception of the organized,

361
00:12:58,584 --> 00:12:59,084
orderly,

362
00:12:59,464 --> 00:12:59,964
scripted

363
00:13:00,669 --> 00:13:02,669
church experience that we've come to have on

364
00:13:02,669 --> 00:13:04,429
Sundays. And I bring that up because of

365
00:13:04,429 --> 00:13:06,910
that conversation we were just having where it's

366
00:13:06,990 --> 00:13:08,830
if you look at what the Brethren have

367
00:13:08,830 --> 00:13:10,350
been doing with the changes over the last

368
00:13:10,350 --> 00:13:12,690
10 years, they've been opening up.

369
00:13:13,174 --> 00:13:15,014
Everything has been opening up, trying to give

370
00:13:15,014 --> 00:13:17,434
us more choice Mhmm. More flexibility

371
00:13:18,214 --> 00:13:20,375
with greater opportunity. What's the word? With greater

372
00:13:20,615 --> 00:13:22,855
Responsibility. Responsibility. Well Spider man. I'm trying to

373
00:13:22,855 --> 00:13:24,074
say no. The church.

374
00:13:24,534 --> 00:13:26,220
The in the scriptures, what does it say?

375
00:13:26,379 --> 00:13:29,179
There's more expectations. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Right? So

376
00:13:29,179 --> 00:13:30,779
as he gives us that, there's there's more

377
00:13:30,779 --> 00:13:32,779
on the leaders. Yeah. There's work to be

378
00:13:32,779 --> 00:13:34,539
done to say, okay. If we're supposed to

379
00:13:34,539 --> 00:13:35,679
have this more flexible,

380
00:13:36,379 --> 00:13:38,240
spirit driven approach to ministering,

381
00:13:38,779 --> 00:13:40,825
what does that actually look like? How do

382
00:13:40,825 --> 00:13:42,684
we create structures and patterns

383
00:13:43,144 --> 00:13:44,044
and expectations

384
00:13:44,504 --> 00:13:46,904
at our local level that actually reinforce that?

385
00:13:46,904 --> 00:13:48,904
Yeah. We didn't do that work by and

386
00:13:48,904 --> 00:13:50,825
large. Many units did, but by and large,

387
00:13:50,825 --> 00:13:52,740
we didn't do that work as leaders. And

388
00:13:52,740 --> 00:13:54,899
so now the culture is coming back in

389
00:13:54,899 --> 00:13:56,500
and saying, just make it look like home

390
00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:58,740
teaching. Mhmm. Right? In many areas. Not in

391
00:13:58,740 --> 00:14:00,419
every area, but in many areas. Just make

392
00:14:00,419 --> 00:14:02,179
it look like it used to look. We'll

393
00:14:02,179 --> 00:14:04,580
call it something different. Maybe say that ministering

394
00:14:04,580 --> 00:14:06,519
is even a plus home teaching,

395
00:14:06,875 --> 00:14:09,274
but it's not fundamentally something unique and different.

396
00:14:09,274 --> 00:14:11,674
Yeah. Same thing happened with Sunday school. Right?

397
00:14:11,674 --> 00:14:13,115
They came in and they said, we want

398
00:14:13,115 --> 00:14:15,034
a different style of teaching. We want a

399
00:14:15,034 --> 00:14:16,735
different classroom experience.

400
00:14:17,115 --> 00:14:19,195
That's a recognition by the Brethren that what

401
00:14:19,195 --> 00:14:22,075
was happening in Sunday school wasn't working on

402
00:14:22,075 --> 00:14:24,750
average. It wasn't accomplishing the goals and objectives

403
00:14:24,750 --> 00:14:27,389
that they had for that experience. Right? So

404
00:14:27,389 --> 00:14:29,149
they come in and they say, let's open

405
00:14:29,149 --> 00:14:31,649
it up. Let's allow for creativity and innovation.

406
00:14:32,029 --> 00:14:33,790
And we had a few people who stepped

407
00:14:33,790 --> 00:14:35,809
into that. But by and large,

408
00:14:36,304 --> 00:14:37,504
when we didn't know what to do with

409
00:14:37,504 --> 00:14:39,904
that space, the culture came in, and we

410
00:14:39,904 --> 00:14:41,824
said, okay. Let's just keep doing what we

411
00:14:41,824 --> 00:14:43,985
were always doing because we know it. It's

412
00:14:43,985 --> 00:14:46,464
predictable. It's safe. It's comfortable. Even if the

413
00:14:46,464 --> 00:14:49,289
outcomes aren't what we want or desire, at

414
00:14:49,289 --> 00:14:50,889
least we can kind of feel good about

415
00:14:50,889 --> 00:14:53,049
going through the process that we've seen for

416
00:14:53,049 --> 00:14:55,049
the last 30 years. Yeah. Yeah. And and

417
00:14:55,049 --> 00:14:56,730
going back to that, you know, the example

418
00:14:56,730 --> 00:14:58,490
of 3rd Nephi, what they gather, you know,

419
00:14:58,490 --> 00:15:00,649
they gathered around the the temple. I'm trying

420
00:15:01,049 --> 00:15:02,570
for some reason, it may feel a little

421
00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:05,095
too loosey goosey. Right? Like, we like our

422
00:15:05,095 --> 00:15:07,014
structure. It's like this is our time for

423
00:15:07,014 --> 00:15:09,014
doing we're doing this right now and somebody

424
00:15:09,014 --> 00:15:10,634
speaks now and then we do the sacrament.

425
00:15:10,774 --> 00:15:13,415
And so sometimes it's hard to really, you

426
00:15:13,415 --> 00:15:15,894
know, create that openness for ourselves as leaders,

427
00:15:15,894 --> 00:15:18,509
as local leaders saying, now let's like let's

428
00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:20,190
feel like let's fill this out a little

429
00:15:20,190 --> 00:15:22,029
bit. Let's see if people will grow into

430
00:15:22,029 --> 00:15:25,470
this because we surrender control. Right? That's the

431
00:15:25,470 --> 00:15:26,910
the scary part about it. So is there

432
00:15:26,910 --> 00:15:28,750
anything as far as on that local level,

433
00:15:28,750 --> 00:15:31,389
the applicable level, application level of, like, how

434
00:15:31,389 --> 00:15:33,070
do we gather those people? Or what does

435
00:15:33,070 --> 00:15:34,725
that look like in 2024?

436
00:15:35,264 --> 00:15:37,424
Well, I think it's interesting. Another example from

437
00:15:37,424 --> 00:15:39,264
3rd DeFi that I actually just read this

438
00:15:39,264 --> 00:15:40,325
morning. So

439
00:15:40,785 --> 00:15:42,165
Jesus is still with the people

440
00:15:42,945 --> 00:15:44,625
and he's given them the sermon. So first

441
00:15:44,625 --> 00:15:46,225
of all, he starts by speaking to the

442
00:15:46,225 --> 00:15:48,070
leaders, calls the 12, speaks to the leaders.

443
00:15:48,070 --> 00:15:50,070
So he's got the leadership training meeting or

444
00:15:50,070 --> 00:15:51,429
counsel. I don't know what it is. Right?

445
00:15:51,429 --> 00:15:52,790
So then he turns to the general body,

446
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:54,629
and he has sacrameting or something, or he's

447
00:15:54,629 --> 00:15:57,029
giving them instructions. He's giving them doctrines, and

448
00:15:57,029 --> 00:15:59,529
it's very much one to many communication.

449
00:16:00,164 --> 00:16:02,084
And this kinda goes back and forth a

450
00:16:02,084 --> 00:16:04,404
little bit. And then he says, okay, I

451
00:16:04,404 --> 00:16:05,225
have a script.

452
00:16:05,605 --> 00:16:06,964
The father gave me a script. He told

453
00:16:06,964 --> 00:16:08,565
me what to say, and I can't get

454
00:16:08,565 --> 00:16:10,004
through it all because you guys are too

455
00:16:10,004 --> 00:16:12,659
weak. So we're gonna take a break. Right?

456
00:16:12,740 --> 00:16:15,139
But that's really interesting because, first of all,

457
00:16:15,139 --> 00:16:17,699
he has a script. But second of all,

458
00:16:17,699 --> 00:16:20,339
he's willing to deviate from the commandments that

459
00:16:20,339 --> 00:16:23,059
the father in heaven has given him, the

460
00:16:23,059 --> 00:16:25,299
God of the universe. Right? He says, yeah,

461
00:16:25,299 --> 00:16:27,315
he gave me instructions, but I'm gonna deviate.

462
00:16:27,475 --> 00:16:30,115
And then chapter 17, third Nephi, he starts

463
00:16:30,115 --> 00:16:31,715
to deviate like crazy, and all of a

464
00:16:31,715 --> 00:16:33,394
sudden, you know, he's he's calling the lame

465
00:16:33,394 --> 00:16:35,075
and the lepers together. He's healing people. He's

466
00:16:35,075 --> 00:16:36,995
bringing the children. There's angels coming. Like, he's

467
00:16:36,995 --> 00:16:38,595
actually doing the thing that we say church

468
00:16:38,595 --> 00:16:40,209
is supposed to be, which is they're led

469
00:16:40,209 --> 00:16:42,049
by the spirit, you know, whether to preach

470
00:16:42,049 --> 00:16:43,809
or exhort or to, you know, all the

471
00:16:43,809 --> 00:16:46,850
different things. He's actually just living church right

472
00:16:46,850 --> 00:16:48,389
there. He's perceiving,

473
00:16:48,850 --> 00:16:50,610
and he's adapting to the needs of the

474
00:16:50,610 --> 00:16:52,975
people. Mhmm. Right? So he's got a script,

475
00:16:52,975 --> 00:16:54,195
but he's he's

476
00:16:54,574 --> 00:16:56,574
inherently flexible to that script. So this is

477
00:16:56,574 --> 00:16:58,654
this great paradox. Right? How do we do

478
00:16:58,654 --> 00:17:00,254
that in the church? We can get to

479
00:17:00,254 --> 00:17:02,174
the practicalities of it in a little bit.

480
00:17:02,174 --> 00:17:04,335
But from a principle perspective, when I talk

481
00:17:04,335 --> 00:17:06,539
about that being the natural order of church,

482
00:17:06,619 --> 00:17:08,320
right, spontaneous gathering,

483
00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:09,920
fluidly and dynamically

484
00:17:10,220 --> 00:17:12,700
interacting with each other about the changes taking

485
00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:14,700
place in our lives centered on Jesus Christ,

486
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:17,019
right, being led by the spirit, whether we

487
00:17:17,019 --> 00:17:19,019
should do this or that, that's the natural

488
00:17:19,019 --> 00:17:21,434
order of church. When you start to institutionalize

489
00:17:21,815 --> 00:17:23,974
church and you start to say, okay, we're

490
00:17:23,974 --> 00:17:25,974
gonna meet once a week. Right? Not just

491
00:17:25,974 --> 00:17:27,734
spontaneously, but we're gonna set a day aside.

492
00:17:27,734 --> 00:17:28,855
We're gonna meet once a week. Now we're

493
00:17:28,855 --> 00:17:30,615
gonna do it at 9 AM. In fact,

494
00:17:30,615 --> 00:17:31,974
we used to do it for, like, 12

495
00:17:31,974 --> 00:17:33,254
hours. I don't know how long they were

496
00:17:33,254 --> 00:17:35,039
meeting back in the day. Right? Uh-huh. But

497
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,119
but, by the way, spontaneous church was a

498
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,920
was Joseph Smith's way. Yeah. Right? My understanding

499
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,119
from some of the stories is it would

500
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:42,559
be Wednesday night at 6 PM, and all

501
00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:44,000
of a sudden, he'd pull up a a

502
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,600
stump on the side of the street and

503
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,359
start preaching, and everybody would the word would

504
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,119
go out and hundreds of people would flock.

505
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,195
Mhmm. Right? And that was church before we

506
00:17:51,195 --> 00:17:52,174
started to institutionalize

507
00:17:52,634 --> 00:17:54,474
it. So it isn't that institution is bad

508
00:17:54,474 --> 00:17:56,634
because it enables, like, oh, hey, let's just

509
00:17:56,634 --> 00:17:58,154
make sure we get together on a regular

510
00:17:58,154 --> 00:18:00,474
basis. Right? It's a system. Then systems are

511
00:18:00,474 --> 00:18:02,015
great. But when the system

512
00:18:02,474 --> 00:18:04,255
is in line with the goals and objectives,

513
00:18:04,315 --> 00:18:06,660
it's a great system. Yeah. When it falls

514
00:18:06,660 --> 00:18:08,440
out of line with the goals and objective,

515
00:18:08,660 --> 00:18:10,500
now it's the job of leaders to start

516
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:11,240
to dismantle

517
00:18:11,779 --> 00:18:13,779
the systems and the processes and the structures

518
00:18:13,779 --> 00:18:14,919
that are now inhibiting

519
00:18:15,299 --> 00:18:17,460
the goals and objectives. And so it's paramount

520
00:18:17,460 --> 00:18:19,000
before you get to any discussion

521
00:18:19,444 --> 00:18:21,204
of the x's and o's, and I've grappled

522
00:18:21,204 --> 00:18:23,444
with this for 18 months, okay, with Sunday

523
00:18:23,444 --> 00:18:25,365
school because I sit in as many as

524
00:18:25,365 --> 00:18:28,025
5 Sunday school classes on a Sunday observing.

525
00:18:28,404 --> 00:18:30,325
So I've got lots of data points, and

526
00:18:30,325 --> 00:18:32,880
and before my stake, I traveled my family

527
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,080
for a year. So I was in a

528
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,200
new sun this is when we had Sunday

529
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:36,160
school every week. So I was in a

530
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,480
new Sunday school class every week. Right? So

531
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,660
quite a bit of data points. Right? And

532
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:41,940
what I can say

533
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,119
is that on average, the typical Sunday school

534
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:46,100
class is broken.

535
00:18:46,414 --> 00:18:48,414
Right? And that may sound fairly alarmist just

536
00:18:48,414 --> 00:18:50,654
to say Sunday school is broken, but if

537
00:18:50,654 --> 00:18:53,075
you look at the objectives of Sunday school,

538
00:18:53,294 --> 00:18:55,615
doesn't match what we're creating. Mhmm. And what

539
00:18:55,615 --> 00:18:58,255
do you call something that doesn't accomplish what

540
00:18:58,255 --> 00:19:01,054
it was built to accomplish? Broke. Right? Called

541
00:19:01,054 --> 00:19:03,080
broken. Yeah. Right? So here we are. But

542
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,160
before you can fix that, you have to

543
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,320
go back and ask yourself, what is its

544
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,119
purpose? Yeah. What is this thing supposed to

545
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:10,619
accomplish?

546
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,859
That's the starting point of all change.

547
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,160
The best part about this is, again, sometimes

548
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:16,035
it can feel like,

549
00:19:16,914 --> 00:19:18,515
oh, this is like it feels like, oh,

550
00:19:18,515 --> 00:19:20,835
you're trying to have people rebel or be

551
00:19:20,835 --> 00:19:22,674
renegades, you know, in the the culture, but

552
00:19:22,674 --> 00:19:24,674
it doesn't require you to be renegades. Again,

553
00:19:24,674 --> 00:19:27,015
we're we've been given so much flexibility

554
00:19:27,394 --> 00:19:29,715
and literally we've many of us been given

555
00:19:29,715 --> 00:19:33,130
priesthood keys. Right? The which keys allow you

556
00:19:33,130 --> 00:19:35,610
to drive something, to direct something. Right? And

557
00:19:35,610 --> 00:19:37,850
so we have the autonomy to do all

558
00:19:37,850 --> 00:19:39,930
this. It's not some renegade approach of, like,

559
00:19:39,930 --> 00:19:41,690
we're gonna build blow up the whole system

560
00:19:41,690 --> 00:19:43,555
and start from scratch. Right? And I think

561
00:19:43,555 --> 00:19:45,315
in our conversations, and we can go into

562
00:19:45,315 --> 00:19:46,515
this a little bit as far as things

563
00:19:46,515 --> 00:19:48,275
we've done both in in my elders quorum,

564
00:19:48,275 --> 00:19:50,674
yours in the the Steak Sunday School that

565
00:19:50,674 --> 00:19:51,654
sort of allow

566
00:19:52,035 --> 00:19:53,555
some of these things to to get some

567
00:19:53,555 --> 00:19:55,890
traction. Right? This is that the next direction

568
00:19:55,890 --> 00:19:56,930
you wanna go or what? I mean, I

569
00:19:56,930 --> 00:19:58,849
think you need to look no further than

570
00:19:58,849 --> 00:20:00,769
the Book of Mormon because the Book of

571
00:20:00,769 --> 00:20:03,170
Mormon repeat and even no no further than

572
00:20:03,170 --> 00:20:05,890
Jesus. Right? Mhmm. These are examples of of

573
00:20:05,890 --> 00:20:07,730
people who came and said the systems, the

574
00:20:07,730 --> 00:20:09,970
processes, the culture are no longer aligned with

575
00:20:09,970 --> 00:20:12,704
the objectives. Mhmm. Right? Whether it's Alma

576
00:20:13,005 --> 00:20:15,005
talking about breaking down the traditions of our

577
00:20:15,005 --> 00:20:18,284
fathers. That is, like, ancient scripture language for

578
00:20:18,284 --> 00:20:20,684
culture, the traditions of our fathers. And, hey,

579
00:20:20,684 --> 00:20:23,005
when those traditions align with our objectives, we

580
00:20:23,005 --> 00:20:25,289
love those traditions. They work. When those traditions

581
00:20:25,349 --> 00:20:27,109
no longer get us the results we're trying

582
00:20:27,109 --> 00:20:28,789
to get, we gotta do away with them.

583
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:30,869
We gotta replace them. That's what leaders do.

584
00:20:30,869 --> 00:20:32,549
Right? And Jesus the same thing that I'm

585
00:20:32,549 --> 00:20:33,829
pulling over here because there's a picture of

586
00:20:33,829 --> 00:20:35,829
Jesus on the wall. The thing that Jesus

587
00:20:35,829 --> 00:20:37,335
did when he came, and he said, look.

588
00:20:37,575 --> 00:20:39,274
We're doing away with the old,

589
00:20:39,654 --> 00:20:41,974
and we're bringing in the new. And that

590
00:20:41,974 --> 00:20:44,375
can feel to local leaders, they can feel

591
00:20:44,375 --> 00:20:46,075
like, oh, that's not safe space

592
00:20:46,534 --> 00:20:48,774
because that's up to the brethren to do

593
00:20:48,774 --> 00:20:50,294
that. But go back to that analogy of

594
00:20:50,294 --> 00:20:52,700
Jacob 5 in the allegory. The brethren, the

595
00:20:52,700 --> 00:20:54,700
lord through the brethren, have come down and

596
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:56,080
said, you are instructed

597
00:20:56,700 --> 00:20:59,180
to transform the way Sunday school and ministering

598
00:20:59,180 --> 00:21:01,180
and the youth program works. That is now

599
00:21:01,180 --> 00:21:03,259
your labor. Your labor is to figure out

600
00:21:03,259 --> 00:21:05,180
how to transform them in line with these

601
00:21:05,180 --> 00:21:06,765
principles. And, by the way, we could go

602
00:21:06,765 --> 00:21:08,445
through and, of course, my mind's on Sunday

603
00:21:08,445 --> 00:21:10,125
school, but we could go through teaching in

604
00:21:10,125 --> 00:21:11,484
the savior's way, and I could talk to

605
00:21:11,484 --> 00:21:13,984
you about how these are principles of transformational

606
00:21:14,205 --> 00:21:14,705
teaching

607
00:21:15,085 --> 00:21:17,904
that we pay lip service to. Right? Mhmm.

608
00:21:17,965 --> 00:21:20,205
We put lipstick lipstick on a pig or

609
00:21:20,205 --> 00:21:22,960
we whitewash the tombs, as Jesus would say,

610
00:21:23,099 --> 00:21:25,419
but we are not actually changing the way

611
00:21:25,419 --> 00:21:27,819
that we do Sunday school. Right? So the

612
00:21:27,819 --> 00:21:30,139
the the effectiveness of a Sunday school class

613
00:21:30,139 --> 00:21:33,019
is wholly dependent upon the individual gifts and

614
00:21:33,019 --> 00:21:35,115
talents of the teacher Mhmm. At this point.

615
00:21:35,275 --> 00:21:37,674
Because our culture is so strong, anybody can

616
00:21:37,674 --> 00:21:39,355
be called in, and they will do something

617
00:21:39,355 --> 00:21:41,194
very similar. Now they might have different techniques,

618
00:21:41,194 --> 00:21:42,474
and I watch them, and they do different

619
00:21:42,474 --> 00:21:44,474
things. And some people will bring in object

620
00:21:44,474 --> 00:21:46,234
lessons, and other people will bring in a

621
00:21:46,234 --> 00:21:49,115
PowerPoint presentation, and other people will rifle through

622
00:21:49,115 --> 00:21:51,509
the pages of the scriptures. Right? But, ultimately,

623
00:21:51,509 --> 00:21:53,430
they're all doing the same thing, which is

624
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:54,490
knowledge transfer.

625
00:21:55,109 --> 00:21:57,269
That's the old way. That's the traditions of

626
00:21:57,269 --> 00:21:59,750
our fathers. We're trying to get you to

627
00:21:59,750 --> 00:22:02,710
know something in your head, where the teaching

628
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:04,544
of Savior's Way and the come follow me

629
00:22:04,544 --> 00:22:06,784
are very clearly trying to promote what we

630
00:22:06,784 --> 00:22:08,004
might call transformational

631
00:22:08,304 --> 00:22:08,804
teaching,

632
00:22:09,105 --> 00:22:10,544
which isn't about what you know. This is

633
00:22:10,544 --> 00:22:12,644
Elder Oaks. Right? He said, unlike

634
00:22:12,944 --> 00:22:15,105
the institutions of the world, unlike other forms

635
00:22:15,105 --> 00:22:17,264
of preaching, the gospel of Jesus Christ isn't

636
00:22:17,264 --> 00:22:19,090
trying to get you to know something. It's

637
00:22:19,090 --> 00:22:21,410
trying to get you to become Right. Something.

638
00:22:21,410 --> 00:22:23,730
And that's the kind of teaching that come

639
00:22:23,730 --> 00:22:26,049
follow me in teaching the Savior's way is

640
00:22:26,049 --> 00:22:27,830
begging for us to step into.

641
00:22:28,289 --> 00:22:29,490
We just don't know how to do it.

642
00:22:29,490 --> 00:22:31,190
Right. And this is the part where

643
00:22:31,894 --> 00:22:32,394
naturally

644
00:22:32,774 --> 00:22:34,294
people are listening to this thing. Alright, Dan.

645
00:22:34,294 --> 00:22:36,134
Like, so what are the 5 steps? Like,

646
00:22:36,134 --> 00:22:37,414
how do we do this? Or what is

647
00:22:37,414 --> 00:22:38,554
the reinvented

648
00:22:39,014 --> 00:22:41,255
new Sunday school or whatever look like? Just

649
00:22:41,255 --> 00:22:42,375
tell us what it looks like and we'll

650
00:22:42,375 --> 00:22:43,734
go do it. Right? And this is at

651
00:22:43,734 --> 00:22:45,095
the core of what we do at Leading

652
00:22:45,095 --> 00:22:47,330
Saints. It's like we never try and present

653
00:22:47,330 --> 00:22:50,289
like the way to do everything. We give

654
00:22:50,289 --> 00:22:51,809
you a selection like this what this guy

655
00:22:51,809 --> 00:22:53,570
is doing. So this lady's doing this is,

656
00:22:53,570 --> 00:22:55,410
you know, and it's, oh, maybe pick and

657
00:22:55,410 --> 00:22:57,570
choose and but were you feeling guided? Right?

658
00:22:57,570 --> 00:22:59,505
And so that that's the beauty of it

659
00:22:59,505 --> 00:23:02,144
is that the your steak Sunday school doesn't

660
00:23:02,144 --> 00:23:03,985
have to look like the steak Sunday school

661
00:23:03,985 --> 00:23:04,805
down the street

662
00:23:05,184 --> 00:23:08,005
because there may be different purposes, different revelation,

663
00:23:08,144 --> 00:23:09,924
different directions that you wanna

664
00:23:10,305 --> 00:23:13,230
take those groups. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. And laboring

665
00:23:13,230 --> 00:23:15,070
in the vineyard. Right? Like, there was different

666
00:23:15,070 --> 00:23:17,309
quarters in the vineyard, different things going on.

667
00:23:17,309 --> 00:23:20,029
Maybe different laborers were doing different things in

668
00:23:20,029 --> 00:23:21,250
different parts of the vineyard,

669
00:23:21,549 --> 00:23:23,089
all acting on the same instructions.

670
00:23:23,710 --> 00:23:25,994
Mhmm. Right? And so, you know, if we

671
00:23:25,994 --> 00:23:27,595
look at what our stake has been trying

672
00:23:27,595 --> 00:23:29,355
to do, I'll tell you that I've spent

673
00:23:29,355 --> 00:23:29,934
the first

674
00:23:30,475 --> 00:23:33,295
12 to 15 months just observing.

675
00:23:33,755 --> 00:23:35,914
Mhmm. And I walked in, and I said,

676
00:23:35,914 --> 00:23:37,595
okay. So this is a unique calling for

677
00:23:37,595 --> 00:23:39,515
me because as a as a professional, I

678
00:23:39,515 --> 00:23:40,529
do a lot of teaching.

679
00:23:41,009 --> 00:23:43,090
I'm not a trained teacher, but as a

680
00:23:43,090 --> 00:23:45,830
leadership development professional, my goal is transformation.

681
00:23:46,529 --> 00:23:48,849
My goal is character change. It isn't to

682
00:23:48,849 --> 00:23:50,930
get people to know something about leadership. I

683
00:23:50,930 --> 00:23:53,890
don't teach people, here's your 10 step model

684
00:23:53,890 --> 00:23:55,845
of what a great leader looks like. Yeah.

685
00:23:56,005 --> 00:23:57,765
Right? I walk in and say, I can't

686
00:23:57,765 --> 00:24:00,005
actually teach you about leadership, but I can

687
00:24:00,005 --> 00:24:00,984
create the conditions

688
00:24:01,924 --> 00:24:03,924
in which you are more likely to develop

689
00:24:03,924 --> 00:24:06,484
yourself as a leader. And then what you

690
00:24:06,484 --> 00:24:09,039
become and how you grow is actually called

691
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:09,539
multifinality.

692
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,400
There's any number of paths that you could

693
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,640
take in any number of destinations you could

694
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,400
end up in. But my goal is just

695
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,339
to get you out of the status quo.

696
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,599
Mhmm. Right? That's a very similar approach when

697
00:24:21,599 --> 00:24:23,615
you think about teaching for becoming.

698
00:24:23,914 --> 00:24:27,275
Right? Character change, spiritual development. It's not teaching

699
00:24:27,275 --> 00:24:28,414
for knowledge transfer.

700
00:24:28,795 --> 00:24:29,535
And so

701
00:24:29,914 --> 00:24:32,315
I have been grappling with that for the

702
00:24:32,315 --> 00:24:34,234
last 18 months is how do you do

703
00:24:34,234 --> 00:24:35,940
that at a stake level? How do you,

704
00:24:36,019 --> 00:24:37,700
you know, you can't walk in and just

705
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:39,799
say, like, here's what teaching should look like.

706
00:24:39,940 --> 00:24:41,299
Let me tell you what I mean, I've

707
00:24:41,299 --> 00:24:44,200
sat in those. Right? Mhmm. I sat maybe

708
00:24:44,819 --> 00:24:45,879
12 years ago

709
00:24:46,179 --> 00:24:48,179
when the Stake Sunday School presidency came in,

710
00:24:48,179 --> 00:24:49,940
and they were gonna show us what great

711
00:24:49,940 --> 00:24:52,605
teaching looked like. And he proceeded to violate

712
00:24:52,605 --> 00:24:54,605
half of the principles that he was teaching

713
00:24:54,605 --> 00:24:56,125
us. Mhmm. Right? And so you kinda walked

714
00:24:56,125 --> 00:24:58,045
away, and you're like, I'm not really sure

715
00:24:58,045 --> 00:24:59,884
what that was, but it wasn't inspirational, whatever

716
00:24:59,884 --> 00:25:00,865
it was. Right?

717
00:25:01,244 --> 00:25:03,345
So one of the things that I've repeatedly

718
00:25:03,884 --> 00:25:04,945
been thinking about

719
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,039
is a lot of times in the those

720
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:09,160
of us in the church who are called

721
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,359
as teachers, we don't have any clue what

722
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,640
transformational teaching even looks like. It's outside of

723
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,619
our experience. So we can't even, like, categorize

724
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,804
it when we hear it. Right? At best,

725
00:25:20,804 --> 00:25:22,724
we might think of, like, oh, yeah. Like,

726
00:25:22,724 --> 00:25:24,105
Socratic teaching methods.

727
00:25:24,964 --> 00:25:27,365
Well, Socratic teaching methods could be used for

728
00:25:27,365 --> 00:25:28,184
knowledge transfer.

729
00:25:28,484 --> 00:25:29,924
Or we might think, like, oh, maybe it's

730
00:25:29,924 --> 00:25:32,884
role playing or experiential learning. Well, those are

731
00:25:32,884 --> 00:25:35,384
also used to reinforce knowledge transfer.

732
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:38,019
So there's a lot of different techniques we

733
00:25:38,019 --> 00:25:40,339
associate with it, but what it really comes

734
00:25:40,339 --> 00:25:42,679
down to is the instructional intent.

735
00:25:43,059 --> 00:25:45,139
And so what I'm trying to work on

736
00:25:45,139 --> 00:25:46,899
with some teachers in our stake right now

737
00:25:46,899 --> 00:25:49,139
is, what is your intent? Like, when you

738
00:25:49,139 --> 00:25:51,674
walk into the classroom, fundamentally, what's your objective?

739
00:25:52,075 --> 00:25:53,595
If it is to get them to know

740
00:25:53,595 --> 00:25:55,835
something, you've just restricted yourself

741
00:25:56,315 --> 00:25:57,535
Mhmm. To this domain.

742
00:25:57,835 --> 00:25:59,535
But if you can flip that belief

743
00:25:59,835 --> 00:26:02,795
even experimentally to, what would it look like

744
00:26:02,795 --> 00:26:04,154
if I were to try to get them

745
00:26:04,154 --> 00:26:06,815
to become something or rather to help them,

746
00:26:07,170 --> 00:26:09,730
empower them to become something? Like, what would

747
00:26:09,730 --> 00:26:11,490
I do differently? This is where I go

748
00:26:11,490 --> 00:26:13,650
back to the idea of that restoring the

749
00:26:13,650 --> 00:26:14,630
natural order.

750
00:26:14,930 --> 00:26:16,769
Right? What do we need to kind of

751
00:26:16,769 --> 00:26:17,269
remove

752
00:26:17,650 --> 00:26:19,809
from the experience that we typically have on

753
00:26:19,809 --> 00:26:20,390
a Sunday

754
00:26:20,835 --> 00:26:21,575
that reinforces

755
00:26:22,034 --> 00:26:24,214
classroom didactic style learning.

756
00:26:24,755 --> 00:26:27,575
And what can we do? Like, honestly, Jesus

757
00:26:27,875 --> 00:26:29,714
very rarely taught in the synagogues, and when

758
00:26:29,714 --> 00:26:31,075
when he went in, it was usually to

759
00:26:31,075 --> 00:26:33,474
kinda blow things up. Right? Like, you know,

760
00:26:33,474 --> 00:26:35,480
drop a few bombs on

761
00:26:35,779 --> 00:26:37,539
people. Most of his teaching was on the

762
00:26:37,539 --> 00:26:39,539
hillside or in the plains or on the

763
00:26:39,539 --> 00:26:41,220
sea shore. Walk to the next city. On

764
00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:43,140
the walk to the next city. Right? What

765
00:26:43,140 --> 00:26:44,200
if that was church?

766
00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:46,900
Right? What if church was out walking and

767
00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:49,484
talking? You think it's impossible? We do it.

768
00:26:49,484 --> 00:26:51,724
In my Sunday school class, the weather's permitting,

769
00:26:51,724 --> 00:26:53,484
I say, okay. Here's an exercise we're gonna

770
00:26:53,484 --> 00:26:55,085
do. We're gonna walk around the church building

771
00:26:55,085 --> 00:26:56,765
3 or 4 times. We don't even have

772
00:26:56,765 --> 00:26:58,285
grounds. We had got a building in a

773
00:26:58,285 --> 00:26:59,964
parking lot. That's all we got. So it's

774
00:26:59,964 --> 00:27:02,285
like, we're gonna walk in this rectangle a

775
00:27:02,285 --> 00:27:04,065
few times while we have this conversation.

776
00:27:04,679 --> 00:27:06,919
Right? But that aside, even if it's inside

777
00:27:06,919 --> 00:27:09,079
a classroom, now you're starting to ask yourself

778
00:27:09,079 --> 00:27:11,179
questions like, how do I remove

779
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:12,859
the cultural cues

780
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,079
that make you think you're here to learn

781
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:17,319
this way? Right? Mhmm. Well, first of all,

782
00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:19,419
if we're all facing in rows,

783
00:27:20,115 --> 00:27:21,255
facing one person,

784
00:27:21,714 --> 00:27:23,714
we're socially conditioned to just sit there and

785
00:27:23,714 --> 00:27:25,234
listen to what that person is gonna say

786
00:27:25,234 --> 00:27:27,075
to us. So maybe I need to put

787
00:27:27,075 --> 00:27:29,315
a a circle of chairs. Right? Well, how

788
00:27:29,315 --> 00:27:30,755
many people are too many people to have

789
00:27:30,755 --> 00:27:32,275
a circle of chairs? We've done it with

790
00:27:32,275 --> 00:27:33,974
30. I've seen it done it with 60.

791
00:27:34,289 --> 00:27:36,130
Right? It's not the only thing that can

792
00:27:36,130 --> 00:27:37,670
be done. I've also seen rooms,

793
00:27:38,049 --> 00:27:40,130
with 60 kids in it. That was a

794
00:27:40,130 --> 00:27:42,049
transformational setting, but they were in rows because

795
00:27:42,049 --> 00:27:43,650
frankly, the room was tiny, and that room

796
00:27:43,650 --> 00:27:46,130
was shoulder to shoulder packed. Yeah. Right? But

797
00:27:46,130 --> 00:27:49,464
there was transformational teaching happening. So start with

798
00:27:49,464 --> 00:27:52,024
the environmental cues. Right? That's one of the

799
00:27:52,024 --> 00:27:54,585
things. But it's always coming back to what

800
00:27:54,585 --> 00:27:55,884
is your intent.

801
00:27:56,265 --> 00:27:58,825
Yeah. And that's I've heard it framed that

802
00:27:58,825 --> 00:27:59,944
a lot of times people are in a

803
00:27:59,944 --> 00:28:02,265
beta state where they're like they're just like

804
00:28:02,265 --> 00:28:03,325
passive listening.

805
00:28:03,740 --> 00:28:06,539
And then you do something so so nuanced,

806
00:28:06,539 --> 00:28:08,059
so natural, just sort of get them in

807
00:28:08,059 --> 00:28:09,740
the alpha state where they're like, oh, no.

808
00:28:09,740 --> 00:28:11,740
Like, I'm engaged here. I have to do

809
00:28:11,740 --> 00:28:15,259
something. Right? And where that's, you know, taking

810
00:28:15,259 --> 00:28:17,355
the walk around the building or how you

811
00:28:17,355 --> 00:28:19,035
arrange the chairs or just taking them in

812
00:28:19,035 --> 00:28:20,714
a different room. And this is it's difficult

813
00:28:20,714 --> 00:28:22,394
at times I admit because we're given these

814
00:28:22,394 --> 00:28:24,954
buildings, and that's where church is gonna happen

815
00:28:24,954 --> 00:28:27,355
for that next 2 hours. Right? And so

816
00:28:27,355 --> 00:28:29,214
we have sometimes get creative or

817
00:28:29,650 --> 00:28:31,569
split it up or have multiple teachers or

818
00:28:31,569 --> 00:28:33,809
whatever it is. But I think the principle

819
00:28:33,809 --> 00:28:35,890
there is, like, how can you disrupt that

820
00:28:35,890 --> 00:28:37,670
beta state getting them into

821
00:28:38,130 --> 00:28:39,589
a different state of mind,

822
00:28:39,890 --> 00:28:41,250
then you can work with them. Right? If

823
00:28:41,250 --> 00:28:44,085
we're we just rely on, like, oh, I'll

824
00:28:44,085 --> 00:28:45,305
I'll just have some more

825
00:28:45,684 --> 00:28:48,005
poignant questions. That's what I'll do. And then

826
00:28:48,005 --> 00:28:49,924
they kinda just blink at you the same

827
00:28:49,924 --> 00:28:52,184
like they did before. Right? And so there's

828
00:28:52,325 --> 00:28:54,099
an infinite ways to do that. But if

829
00:28:54,099 --> 00:28:55,539
you say, I'm gonna ask you this poignant

830
00:28:55,539 --> 00:28:57,859
question, then I'm gonna give you 60 seconds

831
00:28:57,859 --> 00:28:59,940
to think in silence about it. Yeah. And

832
00:28:59,940 --> 00:29:01,539
then everyone in this room is gonna have

833
00:29:01,539 --> 00:29:03,460
a chance to vocalize what they're thinking. All

834
00:29:03,460 --> 00:29:05,700
of a sudden, they're like, oh, I'm gonna

835
00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:07,299
be part of this. Yeah. Right? And so

836
00:29:07,299 --> 00:29:09,315
now they engage in a different way. Yeah.

837
00:29:09,554 --> 00:29:11,714
And there's a 1,000 techniques we could talk

838
00:29:11,714 --> 00:29:13,234
about, and I'm by no means an expert

839
00:29:13,234 --> 00:29:15,075
on all the techniques Right. Of how to

840
00:29:15,075 --> 00:29:17,875
facilitate great learning. But what I think is

841
00:29:17,875 --> 00:29:20,294
important in what you just talked about was

842
00:29:20,434 --> 00:29:20,934
experimentation.

843
00:29:21,474 --> 00:29:24,210
Yes. Right? Yes. So we just had general

844
00:29:24,210 --> 00:29:26,849
conference. Elder Kieran spoke about the Church of

845
00:29:26,849 --> 00:29:27,349
Joy,

846
00:29:27,809 --> 00:29:30,210
and it was a very moving, descriptive talk

847
00:29:30,210 --> 00:29:32,769
about what church looks like. The only problem

848
00:29:32,769 --> 00:29:35,190
is is that's not what most church experiences

849
00:29:35,250 --> 00:29:38,164
look like. They don't look joyful. Right? And

850
00:29:38,164 --> 00:29:39,765
so you can kind of go one of

851
00:29:39,765 --> 00:29:41,445
2 ways where you start to get into

852
00:29:41,445 --> 00:29:43,205
behavioral engineering and you say, like, we're gonna

853
00:29:43,205 --> 00:29:45,945
make church look joyful, which then becomes inauthentic.

854
00:29:46,164 --> 00:29:48,164
Right? Or you can start as a leader

855
00:29:48,164 --> 00:29:50,725
to say, are my people smiling? Are my

856
00:29:50,725 --> 00:29:51,625
people engaged

857
00:29:52,059 --> 00:29:54,400
as a teacher? Right? Am I noticing

858
00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:57,500
how they're interacting with this experience? And am

859
00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:58,160
I willing

860
00:29:58,460 --> 00:30:00,480
to deviate from the script

861
00:30:00,940 --> 00:30:02,779
to experiment? And maybe it's not just the

862
00:30:02,779 --> 00:30:04,220
script I came in with, but it's the

863
00:30:04,220 --> 00:30:07,355
cultural script. I'm willing to do something positively

864
00:30:07,414 --> 00:30:07,914
deviant

865
00:30:08,375 --> 00:30:11,095
to shatter the norms and try something new

866
00:30:11,095 --> 00:30:13,335
to bring them into this experience. This is

867
00:30:13,335 --> 00:30:16,375
Jesus with the people in 3rd Nephi saying,

868
00:30:16,375 --> 00:30:18,234
I perceive that you are weak.

869
00:30:18,615 --> 00:30:22,019
Something needs to change. I'm leaving. Mhmm. Guess

870
00:30:22,019 --> 00:30:24,279
what? He didn't perceive it right.

871
00:30:24,580 --> 00:30:26,820
That's not what they needed. They needed him

872
00:30:26,820 --> 00:30:27,559
to stay.

873
00:30:28,019 --> 00:30:30,360
And after a little while, he goes, actually,

874
00:30:30,660 --> 00:30:32,259
I perceive that you want me to do

875
00:30:32,259 --> 00:30:34,180
the miracles that I did for your brother

876
00:30:34,180 --> 00:30:34,920
in Jerusalem.

877
00:30:35,515 --> 00:30:37,755
Okay. Let's stay and do that. Right? So

878
00:30:37,755 --> 00:30:38,734
he's experimenting,

879
00:30:39,115 --> 00:30:40,474
and then he says, now bring me your

880
00:30:40,474 --> 00:30:40,974
children.

881
00:30:41,275 --> 00:30:42,554
But then all of a sudden, he's like,

882
00:30:42,554 --> 00:30:44,875
wait a minute. Actually, I think we need

883
00:30:44,875 --> 00:30:46,634
to pray right now. So he kind of,

884
00:30:46,634 --> 00:30:48,335
like, stops with the children,

885
00:30:48,794 --> 00:30:49,694
and he prays,

886
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:52,309
and no man can speak the great things

887
00:30:52,309 --> 00:30:54,309
that were spoken by Jesus at that time

888
00:30:54,309 --> 00:30:56,069
and the joy which filled our hearts. Then

889
00:30:56,069 --> 00:30:58,069
he comes back to the children. Right? So

890
00:30:58,069 --> 00:31:00,389
there's this dynamic, like, give and take with

891
00:31:00,389 --> 00:31:03,269
the people Mhmm. This ability to read their

892
00:31:03,269 --> 00:31:06,174
emotional states. Right? We just held a gathering

893
00:31:06,174 --> 00:31:08,355
in my home where we're kind of introducing

894
00:31:08,414 --> 00:31:11,054
some concepts of transformational teaching to people in

895
00:31:11,054 --> 00:31:12,494
the state who wanted to come and learn

896
00:31:12,494 --> 00:31:14,654
about it. And the whole focus of our

897
00:31:14,654 --> 00:31:16,355
conversation was on energy.

898
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,580
As a teacher, you have to be managing

899
00:31:20,119 --> 00:31:21,500
the energy and the engagement

900
00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:23,720
of the people in the room. That's your

901
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:24,220
responsibility.

902
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,779
You can certainly walk away and say, oh,

903
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,160
these people today, they're on their phones, and

904
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,005
they're not listening to me, and they're talking

905
00:31:31,005 --> 00:31:32,445
with their neighbors, and the kids are doing

906
00:31:32,445 --> 00:31:33,964
whatever. Right? And it's all about this new

907
00:31:33,964 --> 00:31:36,305
generation, or it's all about this technology problem.

908
00:31:36,765 --> 00:31:37,964
But I walk into that room, and I

909
00:31:37,964 --> 00:31:39,984
go, this phone is a barometer

910
00:31:40,365 --> 00:31:42,765
of how engaged the people are are with

911
00:31:42,765 --> 00:31:44,125
my lesson. Yeah. I'm not gonna tell them

912
00:31:44,125 --> 00:31:45,419
to put them away. I'm not gonna put

913
00:31:45,419 --> 00:31:47,579
them in a basket because the second they

914
00:31:47,579 --> 00:31:49,819
turn those on, I now know what I'm

915
00:31:49,819 --> 00:31:52,460
doing isn't working. Mhmm. It's time to abort

916
00:31:52,460 --> 00:31:54,460
the script, and it's time to do something

917
00:31:54,460 --> 00:31:56,399
different. Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful.

918
00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:58,379
So as you're, like, leading in this the

919
00:31:58,379 --> 00:32:00,505
context of the Stake Sunday School, like, how

920
00:32:00,505 --> 00:32:01,704
do you get to them to know the

921
00:32:01,704 --> 00:32:03,144
purpose of the Sunday School and keep it

922
00:32:03,144 --> 00:32:04,825
in the forefront of their mind? Or Yeah.

923
00:32:04,825 --> 00:32:06,025
Well, we always wanna go back to the

924
00:32:06,025 --> 00:32:08,424
handbook. Right? And we think the answers are

925
00:32:08,424 --> 00:32:10,984
all there, and they are, but there's a

926
00:32:10,984 --> 00:32:13,244
lot of room for creativity

927
00:32:13,704 --> 00:32:15,679
within what the handbook gives us. So if

928
00:32:15,679 --> 00:32:17,039
you go to the handbook and you ask

929
00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:19,039
yourself it actually says, like, the purpose of

930
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:20,640
Sunday school, the purpose of release site, the

931
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,480
purpose of valor's quorum. Right? There's a header

932
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,880
for each section, and all of them relate

933
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,579
to the work of salvation

934
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,140
and what's the wordings? It's

935
00:32:29,775 --> 00:32:31,855
salvation internal life or something like that. Uh-huh.

936
00:32:31,855 --> 00:32:33,375
Uh-huh. Okay. So they all have something to

937
00:32:33,375 --> 00:32:34,974
do with that. But then it's the second

938
00:32:34,974 --> 00:32:36,734
statement where it starts to get unique to

939
00:32:36,734 --> 00:32:38,815
each of them. With the Sunday school, it

940
00:32:38,815 --> 00:32:41,234
says, we do this by helping

941
00:32:41,535 --> 00:32:44,980
members to live and sorry. Helping members to

942
00:32:44,980 --> 00:32:47,960
learn and live the gospel of Jesus Christ.

943
00:32:48,019 --> 00:32:49,539
Okay. So we could stop right there and

944
00:32:49,539 --> 00:32:51,320
say, like, that's it. We know the purpose.

945
00:32:51,460 --> 00:32:53,619
It's to help people learn and to live

946
00:32:53,619 --> 00:32:54,279
the gospel.

947
00:32:54,660 --> 00:32:56,865
Well, what does that mean? Mhmm. What does

948
00:32:56,865 --> 00:32:58,625
it mean to learn and live the gospel

949
00:32:58,625 --> 00:32:59,605
of Jesus Christ?

950
00:32:59,904 --> 00:33:02,085
Well, now we're back into that conversation around,

951
00:33:02,384 --> 00:33:04,545
you know, what really is the purpose here?

952
00:33:04,545 --> 00:33:05,845
And if we don't have

953
00:33:06,625 --> 00:33:07,125
defined

954
00:33:07,744 --> 00:33:08,484
new vision,

955
00:33:09,105 --> 00:33:12,404
provocative disruptive vision of what those words mean,

956
00:33:12,599 --> 00:33:14,599
we will default to what we've always known

957
00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:15,339
and experienced.

958
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:17,720
So we've all been in Sunday school for

959
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,019
30 or 50 years.

960
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,480
We know what it means to learn and

961
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,319
to live. Add on to that, we've all

962
00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:25,640
been in school for 18 or 20 years

963
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,319
or however much time or 12 or 18

964
00:33:27,319 --> 00:33:29,325
years, whatever it is. So we know what

965
00:33:29,325 --> 00:33:31,724
it means to learn. Right? And, fundamentally, it

966
00:33:31,724 --> 00:33:33,404
means to be talked at. It means to

967
00:33:33,404 --> 00:33:34,464
receive information.

968
00:33:35,164 --> 00:33:37,085
And so that's what it means to learn.

969
00:33:37,085 --> 00:33:38,684
And to live means go off on your

970
00:33:38,684 --> 00:33:41,424
own and try it out. Mhmm. Right? Well,

971
00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:44,070
there's another way to think about purpose other

972
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:45,990
than just the stated purpose, and I love

973
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:48,150
to do this exercise with everything that I'm

974
00:33:48,150 --> 00:33:50,570
engaged in, which is what is the discerned

975
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:53,670
purpose? What is the self evident purpose? This

976
00:33:53,670 --> 00:33:55,769
goes back to some teachings of Aristotle

977
00:33:56,375 --> 00:33:58,875
who kinda started this whole conversation around purpose.

978
00:33:59,255 --> 00:34:00,775
And he said, to know the purpose of

979
00:34:00,775 --> 00:34:03,035
something, you don't have to ask its creator.

980
00:34:03,414 --> 00:34:04,855
You don't have to go to the handbook.

981
00:34:04,855 --> 00:34:06,555
You don't have to go ask the brethren,

982
00:34:06,615 --> 00:34:08,775
why do we have Sunday school? You just

983
00:34:08,775 --> 00:34:10,715
have to look at the unique characteristics

984
00:34:11,094 --> 00:34:13,730
of the thing because its purpose is self

985
00:34:13,730 --> 00:34:16,530
evident in its intrinsic nature. So we can

986
00:34:16,530 --> 00:34:18,050
step back and we can start to ask,

987
00:34:18,050 --> 00:34:20,690
well, what is unique about Sunday school or

988
00:34:20,690 --> 00:34:21,989
whatever it is you're leading

989
00:34:22,369 --> 00:34:24,690
at the time? What is unique about this

990
00:34:24,690 --> 00:34:27,344
that teaches me something about the purpose that

991
00:34:27,344 --> 00:34:29,344
I need to accomplish here and, therefore, what

992
00:34:29,344 --> 00:34:31,105
I need to change in terms of my

993
00:34:31,105 --> 00:34:32,324
beliefs and my approach?

994
00:34:32,625 --> 00:34:35,025
Well, with Sunday school, over the last 18

995
00:34:35,025 --> 00:34:36,864
months, my mind has kind of settled on

996
00:34:36,864 --> 00:34:37,925
3 primary

997
00:34:38,224 --> 00:34:38,724
characteristics.

998
00:34:39,549 --> 00:34:41,710
The first one is what is unique is

999
00:34:41,710 --> 00:34:42,449
the membership

1000
00:34:42,909 --> 00:34:43,969
of Sunday school.

1001
00:34:44,349 --> 00:34:46,989
What's unique about this is we are all

1002
00:34:46,989 --> 00:34:49,150
members or affiliates of The Church of Jesus

1003
00:34:49,150 --> 00:34:50,449
Christ of Latter day Saints.

1004
00:34:50,750 --> 00:34:52,750
So we come with an interest in the

1005
00:34:52,750 --> 00:34:53,809
restored gospel.

1006
00:34:54,224 --> 00:34:55,684
That's an important characteristic.

1007
00:34:56,465 --> 00:34:59,105
We don't all come with a desire to

1008
00:34:59,105 --> 00:35:01,125
develop our intellectual understanding

1009
00:35:01,664 --> 00:35:04,965
of esoteric doctrines or deep historical

1010
00:35:05,425 --> 00:35:07,364
episodes or things like that. Right?

1011
00:35:08,039 --> 00:35:10,280
What unites us all is that we all

1012
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,460
come with a spiritual need.

1013
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,000
That's a 100%. No matter who you're talking

1014
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,840
about, we come with the need either to

1015
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,760
understand and make sense of our lives through

1016
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:19,340
the gospel

1017
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,714
or to get help and guidance and support

1018
00:35:22,775 --> 00:35:25,255
with our current situations that we're in. So

1019
00:35:25,255 --> 00:35:27,974
that's, like, that's a fundamental characteristic. And now

1020
00:35:27,974 --> 00:35:29,815
you take away the fact that there's no

1021
00:35:29,815 --> 00:35:32,295
separate genders. It's mixed genders. Right? So there's

1022
00:35:32,295 --> 00:35:34,315
some universal human experience

1023
00:35:34,934 --> 00:35:37,150
that Sunday school should address, and it should

1024
00:35:37,150 --> 00:35:38,590
do it through the lens of the gospel

1025
00:35:38,590 --> 00:35:39,489
of Jesus Christ.

1026
00:35:39,789 --> 00:35:41,309
In addition to that, we do have a

1027
00:35:41,309 --> 00:35:44,289
separation in terms of age. Mhmm. We separate

1028
00:35:44,510 --> 00:35:47,150
youth and adults, and sometimes we separate youth

1029
00:35:47,150 --> 00:35:48,210
very minutely.

1030
00:35:48,510 --> 00:35:50,269
I've spent a lot of time thinking about

1031
00:35:50,269 --> 00:35:52,355
why do we do that, or rather, what

1032
00:35:52,355 --> 00:35:54,755
is the purpose that's evident in the fact

1033
00:35:54,755 --> 00:35:56,434
that we do that? And I think it

1034
00:35:56,434 --> 00:35:57,894
comes down to this idea that

1035
00:35:58,275 --> 00:36:01,795
spiritual development is intrinsically tied to our life

1036
00:36:01,795 --> 00:36:02,295
experiences.

1037
00:36:03,155 --> 00:36:05,690
And by age group, we are having very

1038
00:36:05,690 --> 00:36:07,150
different life experiences.

1039
00:36:07,769 --> 00:36:10,489
And even within a teenage category, those you

1040
00:36:10,489 --> 00:36:12,010
know, a 12 year old's experience is very

1041
00:36:12,010 --> 00:36:14,250
different than an 18 year old's experience. And

1042
00:36:14,250 --> 00:36:15,789
then we have this problematic,

1043
00:36:16,329 --> 00:36:18,974
you know, situation where, you know, we got

1044
00:36:19,215 --> 00:36:20,515
early 20 somethings

1045
00:36:20,974 --> 00:36:23,215
and we got, you know, 70 somethings in

1046
00:36:23,215 --> 00:36:25,135
the same Sunday school class, and we can

1047
00:36:25,135 --> 00:36:27,215
all kind of feel the incoherence of that

1048
00:36:27,215 --> 00:36:29,715
because our life experiences are so disparate.

1049
00:36:30,095 --> 00:36:32,755
But what unites us across that age spectrum

1050
00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:34,670
is that we're all on a faith journey.

1051
00:36:34,889 --> 00:36:37,070
Yeah. We all have spiritual needs,

1052
00:36:37,449 --> 00:36:39,469
and we're all looking at some level,

1053
00:36:39,849 --> 00:36:41,690
some more earnestly than others, but we're all

1054
00:36:41,690 --> 00:36:42,670
looking to Jesus

1055
00:36:43,050 --> 00:36:45,385
to help us meet those needs. Yeah. So

1056
00:36:45,385 --> 00:36:47,385
the the first one was membership? Yeah. And

1057
00:36:47,385 --> 00:36:48,905
then did you have to No. That's just

1058
00:36:48,905 --> 00:36:50,265
the first one. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. 2nd one

1059
00:36:50,265 --> 00:36:53,144
then. Many aspects of membership. Yeah. We're just

1060
00:36:53,144 --> 00:36:54,905
rippling through them here. I got 18 months

1061
00:36:54,905 --> 00:36:56,505
worth of stuff to download here. So what's

1062
00:36:56,505 --> 00:36:58,699
number 2? So number 2 is

1063
00:36:59,079 --> 00:36:59,659
a teacher.

1064
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:01,260
And this is critical

1065
00:37:01,639 --> 00:37:03,880
because the teacher is a unique characteristic in

1066
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,300
a Sunday school class. These are unskilled,

1067
00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:07,579
untrained,

1068
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,059
sometimes even unmotivated

1069
00:37:11,534 --> 00:37:13,855
lay members of the congregation who are asked

1070
00:37:13,855 --> 00:37:15,234
to come in and to

1071
00:37:15,534 --> 00:37:16,034
teach.

1072
00:37:16,655 --> 00:37:19,054
So by that fact right? Now, yeah, you

1073
00:37:19,054 --> 00:37:20,974
you might have a seminary teacher who also

1074
00:37:20,974 --> 00:37:22,815
gets called as your gospel doctrine teacher, and

1075
00:37:22,815 --> 00:37:24,815
so it feels very different. But I've talked

1076
00:37:24,815 --> 00:37:26,594
about the typical average experience.

1077
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,339
By the nature of that

1078
00:37:28,639 --> 00:37:31,679
approach to staffing our Sunday school, we have

1079
00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:34,000
just learned that the purpose cannot be about

1080
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:34,980
religious instruction.

1081
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,699
It cannot come from a position of expertise

1082
00:37:37,759 --> 00:37:40,239
or authority because we are not putting experts

1083
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,605
and authority figures in the room. Mhmm. Right.

1084
00:37:42,605 --> 00:37:45,164
Right? We are putting people who are at

1085
00:37:45,164 --> 00:37:46,304
best peers.

1086
00:37:47,005 --> 00:37:47,505
Maybe

1087
00:37:47,885 --> 00:37:50,045
in the youth setting, they're a couple steps

1088
00:37:50,045 --> 00:37:50,545
ahead

1089
00:37:50,844 --> 00:37:51,664
on the journey,

1090
00:37:52,045 --> 00:37:53,585
but they're still just peers

1091
00:37:53,964 --> 00:37:55,869
on the journey of life. Mhmm. And that

1092
00:37:55,869 --> 00:37:58,030
tells us a lot about what the nature

1093
00:37:58,030 --> 00:38:00,909
of that gathering should be. Now you can

1094
00:38:00,909 --> 00:38:01,969
juxtapose this.

1095
00:38:02,269 --> 00:38:03,329
So if I juxtapose

1096
00:38:04,110 --> 00:38:05,730
Sunday school to seminary,

1097
00:38:06,269 --> 00:38:08,449
in seminary, the teacher is trained,

1098
00:38:08,784 --> 00:38:11,905
is educated, hopefully highly skilled, and we should

1099
00:38:11,905 --> 00:38:13,764
look for a different kind of

1100
00:38:14,385 --> 00:38:17,605
instructional experience or educational experience in that setting.

1101
00:38:17,905 --> 00:38:19,445
And I'll I'll give you an example.

1102
00:38:19,905 --> 00:38:22,164
My daughter, who's currently at Southern Utah University,

1103
00:38:22,949 --> 00:38:26,230
she is grappling with the fact that she's

1104
00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:29,510
longing for a didactic experience. She wants to

1105
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:31,829
learn information and knowledge. That's the stage of

1106
00:38:31,829 --> 00:38:33,750
life that she's in, but it's also the

1107
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:35,589
setting. And so when she shows up at

1108
00:38:35,589 --> 00:38:37,944
seminary for 4 years or when she shows

1109
00:38:37,944 --> 00:38:39,724
up at University Institute,

1110
00:38:40,264 --> 00:38:40,764
she's

1111
00:38:41,065 --> 00:38:44,425
expecting it's coherent to have something more of

1112
00:38:44,425 --> 00:38:46,844
an informational flow. She wants to learn about

1113
00:38:47,065 --> 00:38:50,184
histories and and multiple levels of doctrine and

1114
00:38:50,184 --> 00:38:52,829
paradoxes and all of those things. Right? Yeah.

1115
00:38:52,989 --> 00:38:55,150
That's an experience that she could have under

1116
00:38:55,150 --> 00:38:56,530
a trained mentor.

1117
00:38:57,070 --> 00:38:59,090
That's not an experience that you can replicate

1118
00:38:59,230 --> 00:39:00,210
in Sunday schools.

1119
00:39:00,590 --> 00:39:03,010
Therefore, we learn more about the purpose is

1120
00:39:03,230 --> 00:39:05,170
through the the nature of the teacher is

1121
00:39:05,230 --> 00:39:07,170
we're here as a group of peers

1122
00:39:07,614 --> 00:39:10,175
to facilitate some kind of experience. Now go

1123
00:39:10,175 --> 00:39:13,055
back to the membership. That experience is about

1124
00:39:13,055 --> 00:39:16,175
our personal spiritual development. And, again, juxtapose at

1125
00:39:16,175 --> 00:39:18,835
the membership level, Sunday school is different

1126
00:39:19,215 --> 00:39:22,015
because every other body in the church, elders

1127
00:39:22,015 --> 00:39:23,155
quorum, Relief Society,

1128
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,900
young women's classes, around priesthood classes,

1129
00:39:26,359 --> 00:39:28,299
they have a community identity

1130
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:29,819
outside of the classroom.

1131
00:39:30,279 --> 00:39:32,359
It is a group that you belong to.

1132
00:39:32,359 --> 00:39:35,079
Mhmm. You belong to a relief society or

1133
00:39:35,079 --> 00:39:36,905
an elders quorum. You don't belong

1134
00:39:37,204 --> 00:39:39,364
to a Sunday school class. Sunday school class

1135
00:39:39,364 --> 00:39:41,224
starts and ends. It is transient.

1136
00:39:41,684 --> 00:39:43,605
It is temporary. Mhmm. And then it is

1137
00:39:43,605 --> 00:39:45,925
over. And we learn something about the purpose

1138
00:39:45,925 --> 00:39:46,744
of it, therefore.

1139
00:39:47,125 --> 00:39:49,125
It is not community building. I would argue

1140
00:39:49,125 --> 00:39:49,945
elders quorum,

1141
00:39:50,349 --> 00:39:53,569
relief society, these have an inherent community building

1142
00:39:53,630 --> 00:39:56,109
aspect to them. Time together in a room

1143
00:39:56,109 --> 00:39:57,809
should be spent building that identity

1144
00:39:58,510 --> 00:40:00,349
and preparing the group to go do the

1145
00:40:00,349 --> 00:40:02,609
work that it has outside of that classroom.

1146
00:40:03,005 --> 00:40:05,485
Sunday school, that doesn't exist. Yeah. So in

1147
00:40:05,485 --> 00:40:07,885
Sunday school, we're focused on the individual. We

1148
00:40:07,885 --> 00:40:09,985
enter as individuals. We exit

1149
00:40:10,285 --> 00:40:11,025
as individuals.

1150
00:40:11,405 --> 00:40:13,505
So our time together is as individuals.

1151
00:40:14,045 --> 00:40:16,204
Now that's membership. That's the t shirt. The

1152
00:40:16,204 --> 00:40:18,224
third one is the gathering.

1153
00:40:18,819 --> 00:40:21,319
So even though we are individuals on

1154
00:40:21,619 --> 00:40:23,880
individual journeys, there is some inherent

1155
00:40:24,179 --> 00:40:25,880
reason why we get together.

1156
00:40:26,339 --> 00:40:27,639
The communal nature

1157
00:40:27,940 --> 00:40:31,139
of spiritual development cannot be overlooked. The people

1158
00:40:31,139 --> 00:40:32,119
came to the temple.

1159
00:40:32,545 --> 00:40:34,545
They needed each other to make sense of

1160
00:40:34,545 --> 00:40:36,085
what was happening in their lives.

1161
00:40:36,465 --> 00:40:38,304
Same reason why we come to Sunday school.

1162
00:40:38,304 --> 00:40:40,945
Hey. I'm on an individual journey here, but

1163
00:40:40,945 --> 00:40:43,284
I need you to help me make sense

1164
00:40:43,344 --> 00:40:45,789
of my journey. And in fact, my journey

1165
00:40:45,789 --> 00:40:47,710
makes a lot more sense when I help

1166
00:40:47,710 --> 00:40:50,109
you make sense of your journey. And so

1167
00:40:50,109 --> 00:40:51,010
that collective

1168
00:40:51,389 --> 00:40:51,889
engagement

1169
00:40:52,429 --> 00:40:54,670
is what a Sunday school class should look

1170
00:40:54,670 --> 00:40:57,170
like. Right? And so now just in discussing

1171
00:40:57,230 --> 00:40:59,234
the purpose of it, we start to see

1172
00:40:59,234 --> 00:41:00,934
a very different experience

1173
00:41:01,234 --> 00:41:02,534
emerging in our vision

1174
00:41:03,154 --> 00:41:05,474
as opposed to the the what the seminary

1175
00:41:05,474 --> 00:41:07,234
institutes used to call the sage on the

1176
00:41:07,234 --> 00:41:09,394
stage. Mhmm. Right? You're no longer a sage

1177
00:41:09,394 --> 00:41:10,994
on the stage. You're a guide on the

1178
00:41:10,994 --> 00:41:13,780
side. And there should be this dynamic exchange

1179
00:41:13,780 --> 00:41:14,920
of ideas

1180
00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:17,300
and questions, and not ideas from the standpoint

1181
00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:19,639
of, like because this this is the typical

1182
00:41:20,019 --> 00:41:22,339
I'm gonna deviate for a second here. I'm

1183
00:41:22,339 --> 00:41:24,974
gonna say, I have created a narrative

1184
00:41:25,434 --> 00:41:27,275
of the typical Sunday school class in the

1185
00:41:27,275 --> 00:41:29,434
adult Sunday school and the youth Sunday school

1186
00:41:29,434 --> 00:41:30,894
after 18 months of observation.

1187
00:41:31,514 --> 00:41:33,434
And in the youth Sunday school, the typical

1188
00:41:33,835 --> 00:41:34,954
what you would see if you were to

1189
00:41:34,954 --> 00:41:36,894
walk in there is you would typically see

1190
00:41:37,089 --> 00:41:37,909
an overprepared,

1191
00:41:38,289 --> 00:41:41,409
overstressed adult who is earnestly seeking to get

1192
00:41:41,409 --> 00:41:44,210
this information into their heads. Yeah. And yet

1193
00:41:44,210 --> 00:41:46,630
you see the kids who are totally disengaged,

1194
00:41:47,089 --> 00:41:49,989
and they're expressing that through either, number 1,

1195
00:41:50,204 --> 00:41:51,805
they're on their cell phones, number 2, they're

1196
00:41:51,805 --> 00:41:53,485
chit chatting with their friends, or number 3,

1197
00:41:53,485 --> 00:41:55,265
they're looking stone faced, bored.

1198
00:41:55,724 --> 00:41:58,445
Right? That's them expressing, like, I'm not here

1199
00:41:58,445 --> 00:41:59,825
with you. Right?

1200
00:42:00,364 --> 00:42:02,844
That same disengagement is happening in the adult

1201
00:42:02,844 --> 00:42:05,860
room, but it's happening it manifests itself differently.

1202
00:42:05,860 --> 00:42:08,599
In that room, you see an overprepared,

1203
00:42:09,460 --> 00:42:12,660
insecure teacher who's trying to prove her self

1204
00:42:12,660 --> 00:42:14,900
worth to her peers, right, trying to feel

1205
00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:17,465
validated in front of this very, like, you

1206
00:42:17,465 --> 00:42:18,844
know, pressure situation,

1207
00:42:19,625 --> 00:42:21,405
striving earnestly with good intentions.

1208
00:42:21,864 --> 00:42:23,244
But the people in the room

1209
00:42:23,625 --> 00:42:25,324
are if they are sharing,

1210
00:42:25,625 --> 00:42:27,565
they're sharing their confirmation bias.

1211
00:42:27,864 --> 00:42:29,545
Let me tell you how I see the

1212
00:42:29,545 --> 00:42:31,809
world, and let me validate myself through this

1213
00:42:31,809 --> 00:42:33,109
comment, through this discussion.

1214
00:42:33,730 --> 00:42:36,690
That's very different than talking about my journey

1215
00:42:36,690 --> 00:42:39,329
at an authentic level. I'm trying to explore

1216
00:42:39,329 --> 00:42:41,250
and make sense of who I am at

1217
00:42:41,250 --> 00:42:43,329
this point and how Jesus has helped me

1218
00:42:43,329 --> 00:42:45,085
and how he will help me. That's a

1219
00:42:45,085 --> 00:42:46,305
position of meekness

1220
00:42:46,925 --> 00:42:48,925
as opposed to a position of expertise and

1221
00:42:48,925 --> 00:42:51,565
authority. Most of the comments we get are

1222
00:42:51,565 --> 00:42:54,364
expertise and authority bantering within a classroom. Let

1223
00:42:54,364 --> 00:42:55,485
me tell you what I think. Well, this

1224
00:42:55,485 --> 00:42:56,765
is what I think. Well, I once heard

1225
00:42:56,765 --> 00:42:58,125
someone say this, so this is what I

1226
00:42:58,125 --> 00:43:01,300
think. Mhmm. Right? That's knowledge transfer. It doesn't

1227
00:43:01,300 --> 00:43:03,079
engage us in becoming.

1228
00:43:03,460 --> 00:43:06,260
Right? Challenging our beliefs. Yeah. So take me

1229
00:43:06,260 --> 00:43:07,780
to that as we wrap up here, like

1230
00:43:07,780 --> 00:43:10,179
the application level of, like, the role of

1231
00:43:10,179 --> 00:43:12,485
the teacher in all this. Like, how do

1232
00:43:12,485 --> 00:43:13,925
we actually show up and do that and

1233
00:43:13,925 --> 00:43:15,525
get out of our heads of being the

1234
00:43:15,525 --> 00:43:16,985
nervous, anxious teacher?

1235
00:43:17,364 --> 00:43:19,525
Yeah. I would challenge everyone here who's interested

1236
00:43:19,525 --> 00:43:21,525
in this to, first of all, spend some

1237
00:43:21,525 --> 00:43:24,565
time exploring these ideas of purpose and really

1238
00:43:24,565 --> 00:43:26,724
through their own experiences, try to deconstruct some

1239
00:43:26,724 --> 00:43:28,199
of the things I've said, but come up

1240
00:43:28,199 --> 00:43:30,359
with their own Yeah. Right, their own vision

1241
00:43:30,359 --> 00:43:32,940
and ideas. But if you start to visualize

1242
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,820
that kind of highly engaged

1243
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,359
Sunday school experience and, by the way, by

1244
00:43:38,359 --> 00:43:40,380
engagement, I mean introspection

1245
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:41,579
and dialogue.

1246
00:43:41,954 --> 00:43:44,355
So engagement could be quiet, but there's a

1247
00:43:44,355 --> 00:43:46,914
difference between being bored and being introspective. Right?

1248
00:43:46,914 --> 00:43:49,494
So introspective and then peer to peer dialogue.

1249
00:43:49,795 --> 00:43:51,474
If you start to imagine that, then you

1250
00:43:51,474 --> 00:43:53,075
say to yourself, well, what is the role

1251
00:43:53,075 --> 00:43:54,695
naturally of the teacher

1252
00:43:54,994 --> 00:43:56,215
given all these characteristics?

1253
00:43:56,809 --> 00:43:59,449
Well, it's obvious the teacher's role is to

1254
00:43:59,449 --> 00:43:59,949
facilitate

1255
00:44:00,650 --> 00:44:01,150
engagement,

1256
00:44:01,609 --> 00:44:02,750
which is introspection

1257
00:44:03,609 --> 00:44:04,510
and dialogue.

1258
00:44:04,889 --> 00:44:06,670
Now we could get into a 1,000

1259
00:44:07,449 --> 00:44:10,184
ideas about how you practically do that, but

1260
00:44:10,184 --> 00:44:11,885
you just have to start there

1261
00:44:12,265 --> 00:44:14,925
and say, that's my intent. That's my role

1262
00:44:15,305 --> 00:44:17,385
and my intent. Now how am I going

1263
00:44:17,385 --> 00:44:18,045
to experiment

1264
00:44:18,664 --> 00:44:20,905
with showing up differently as a teacher? And

1265
00:44:20,905 --> 00:44:22,344
it might take me a couple weeks or

1266
00:44:22,344 --> 00:44:23,324
months or years

1267
00:44:23,630 --> 00:44:25,469
to really gain some level of mastery over

1268
00:44:25,469 --> 00:44:27,730
this. But like Jesus, I'm gonna be watching

1269
00:44:28,190 --> 00:44:30,269
for their engagement, and I'm gonna be adjusting

1270
00:44:30,269 --> 00:44:31,010
and adapting

1271
00:44:31,469 --> 00:44:33,390
maybe from the script I wrote, or maybe

1272
00:44:33,390 --> 00:44:35,070
I'm gonna come in with a script that

1273
00:44:35,070 --> 00:44:36,769
is breaking the norms.

1274
00:44:37,144 --> 00:44:38,585
And I know I'm gonna blow some things

1275
00:44:38,585 --> 00:44:40,664
up, and people are gonna struggle with them.

1276
00:44:40,664 --> 00:44:42,505
Mhmm. But I'm gonna do it because I'm

1277
00:44:42,505 --> 00:44:44,525
trying to help this class

1278
00:44:44,984 --> 00:44:46,984
get to a new level where we can

1279
00:44:46,984 --> 00:44:49,885
really enrich the spiritual development of the people.

1280
00:44:50,099 --> 00:44:51,940
So then I would challenge everybody to go

1281
00:44:51,940 --> 00:44:53,780
back and read teaching the savior's way with

1282
00:44:53,780 --> 00:44:54,840
that lens on

1283
00:44:55,140 --> 00:44:57,059
and see if you don't find in there,

1284
00:44:57,059 --> 00:44:58,119
not only the permission,

1285
00:44:58,660 --> 00:44:59,800
not only the pleading

1286
00:45:00,099 --> 00:45:02,180
for you to do something different, but also

1287
00:45:02,180 --> 00:45:02,840
the principles

1288
00:45:03,505 --> 00:45:05,585
that now, through that lens, will speak to

1289
00:45:05,585 --> 00:45:06,565
you very differently.

1290
00:45:07,025 --> 00:45:08,545
What does it mean to show up and

1291
00:45:08,545 --> 00:45:10,704
invite diligent learning? What does it mean to

1292
00:45:10,704 --> 00:45:12,945
create a safe space? Those are words that

1293
00:45:12,945 --> 00:45:13,764
come from teaching

1294
00:45:14,144 --> 00:45:16,380
in the savior's way. But when you think

1295
00:45:16,380 --> 00:45:18,719
about them in the context of this purpose,

1296
00:45:19,179 --> 00:45:21,420
now I'm thinking very differently about how I

1297
00:45:21,420 --> 00:45:23,579
might need to show up. And that's the

1298
00:45:23,579 --> 00:45:26,059
basis. Right? Because if I give you a

1299
00:45:26,059 --> 00:45:27,819
list of 20 different ways you can do

1300
00:45:27,819 --> 00:45:29,954
this, you won't really believe it. You haven't

1301
00:45:29,954 --> 00:45:32,434
gone on a journey. You haven't changed. And

1302
00:45:32,434 --> 00:45:33,735
so you'll show up

1303
00:45:34,035 --> 00:45:36,934
and immediately revert to knowledge transfer.

1304
00:45:37,315 --> 00:45:39,075
Right? You have to go on a journey

1305
00:45:39,075 --> 00:45:39,894
as a teacher

1306
00:45:40,195 --> 00:45:42,055
to become the kind of teacher

1307
00:45:42,539 --> 00:45:43,440
who can teach

1308
00:45:43,820 --> 00:45:46,480
for character development and spiritual transformation.

1309
00:45:54,380 --> 00:45:56,780
The end. That's it for this Leading Saints

1310
00:45:56,780 --> 00:45:58,815
episode. I encourage you to check out some

1311
00:45:58,815 --> 00:46:00,974
of the most popular episodes of the podcast

1312
00:46:00,974 --> 00:46:02,494
that we list at the bottom of the

1313
00:46:02,494 --> 00:46:04,574
show notes. If you haven't listened to all

1314
00:46:04,574 --> 00:46:06,114
of those, do so now.

1315
00:46:06,494 --> 00:46:09,375
Remember, go listen to Dan Duckworth's presentation about

1316
00:46:09,375 --> 00:46:11,635
youth mentorship by visiting leading saints.org/

1317
00:46:22,010 --> 00:46:22,510
14.

1318
00:46:22,890 --> 00:46:25,449
It came as a result of the position

1319
00:46:25,449 --> 00:46:28,510
of leadership which was imposed upon us

1320
00:46:28,864 --> 00:46:30,964
by the God of heaven who brought

1321
00:46:31,264 --> 00:46:32,565
forth a restoration

1322
00:46:32,864 --> 00:46:35,204
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

1323
00:46:35,905 --> 00:46:36,964
And when the declaration

1324
00:46:37,264 --> 00:46:40,545
was made concerning the own and only true

1325
00:46:40,545 --> 00:46:42,944
and living church upon the face of the

1326
00:46:42,944 --> 00:46:43,320
earth,

1327
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,619
We were immediately put in a position of

1328
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:47,180
loneliness,

1329
00:46:47,559 --> 00:46:49,180
the loneliness of leadership

1330
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,780
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,

1331
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,039
and to which we must face up with

1332
00:46:56,039 --> 00:46:56,539
boldness

1333
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:57,579
and courage

1334
00:46:58,039 --> 00:46:58,860
and ability.