1 00:00:02,175 --> 00:00:05,165 - Let's be honest, few humans enjoy meetings 2 00:00:05,465 --> 00:00:08,965 and many feel trapped in meetings As leaders, we don't want 3 00:00:08,965 --> 00:00:10,245 to burden those we lead, 4 00:00:10,465 --> 00:00:13,365 but meetings can seem to do that more often than not. 5 00:00:13,705 --> 00:00:15,525 We wanted to address the pain of meetings 6 00:00:15,525 --> 00:00:17,325 through the meetings with Saints Library. 7 00:00:17,835 --> 00:00:21,125 Here we have 15 plus presentations dedicated 8 00:00:21,145 --> 00:00:22,965 to improving the meetings we run. 9 00:00:23,345 --> 00:00:26,725 We have experts in the field addressing topics like getting 10 00:00:26,725 --> 00:00:29,765 people involved in meetings, staying on task, dealing 11 00:00:29,765 --> 00:00:32,085 with conflict in meetings, and a ton more. 12 00:00:32,435 --> 00:00:34,205 We'd love you to explore the full meetings 13 00:00:34,205 --> 00:00:37,725 with Saints Library over 14 days at no cost to you. 14 00:00:38,265 --> 00:00:41,565 You can do this by visiting leading saints.org/fourteen. 15 00:00:41,745 --> 00:00:44,605 That's leading saints.org/one four. 16 00:00:44,895 --> 00:00:47,765 We'll also give you access to all of our virtual libraries 17 00:00:47,945 --> 00:00:49,885 to educate about other leadership topics. 18 00:00:50,355 --> 00:00:53,925 It's really good stuff. So visit leading saints.org/fourteen 19 00:00:54,345 --> 00:00:56,045 or click the link in the show notes. 20 00:01:00,345 --> 00:01:02,485 Hey, if you're newbie to Leading Saints, it's important 21 00:01:02,485 --> 00:01:05,445 that you know, what is this Leading Saints thing? 22 00:01:05,555 --> 00:01:08,965 Well, leading Saints is a nonprofit organization dedicated, 23 00:01:08,965 --> 00:01:12,365 helping Latter Day Saints be better prepared to lead. 24 00:01:12,585 --> 00:01:15,405 And the way we do that is through content creation. 25 00:01:15,585 --> 00:01:17,005 So we have this phenomenal podcast. 26 00:01:17,265 --> 00:01:19,565 We have a newsletter, we have virtual conferences. 27 00:01:19,945 --> 00:01:22,245 So much more at articles on our website. 28 00:01:22,325 --> 00:01:23,565 I mean, I could go on and on, right? 29 00:01:23,845 --> 00:01:26,085 , and we encourage you to, uh, jump in, 30 00:01:26,085 --> 00:01:27,805 check out Leading Saints, uh, go 31 00:01:27,805 --> 00:01:29,685 to the search bar@leadingsaints.org 32 00:01:29,685 --> 00:01:32,205 and type in some topics and see what pops up. 33 00:01:32,375 --> 00:01:34,485 We're just glad you're here to join us. 34 00:01:39,975 --> 00:01:42,765 Today, I'm welcoming back a former guest, one 35 00:01:42,765 --> 00:01:45,005 of the few guests who is not Latterday Saint 36 00:01:45,005 --> 00:01:47,045 that we have on the Leading Saints of Podcast, 37 00:01:47,055 --> 00:01:50,165 which I'm open to all backgrounds and perspectives. 38 00:01:50,705 --> 00:01:53,285 And especially someone like Steven who's done a ton 39 00:01:53,285 --> 00:01:56,125 of research about the science of meetings. 40 00:01:56,385 --> 00:01:59,525 That's right. Meetings is something we deal with in our, uh, 41 00:01:59,795 --> 00:02:02,405 week to week leadership experience in the church. 42 00:02:02,705 --> 00:02:05,445 And I would orient you to the first interview I did 43 00:02:05,445 --> 00:02:08,485 with him back in 2020, which is part of the meetings 44 00:02:08,485 --> 00:02:10,165 with Saints Virtual Library. 45 00:02:10,745 --> 00:02:13,365 I'm actually gonna include this interview as well in 46 00:02:13,365 --> 00:02:16,445 that library because it is just so needed and helpful. 47 00:02:16,785 --> 00:02:19,005 And in this interview, we talk about his new book. 48 00:02:19,275 --> 00:02:22,765 Glad We Met the Art and Science of One-to-one meetings. 49 00:02:22,765 --> 00:02:23,805 And when he reached out to me 50 00:02:23,805 --> 00:02:25,085 and said, Hey, Kurt, I got a new book. 51 00:02:25,395 --> 00:02:26,565 It's about one-to-one meetings. 52 00:02:26,765 --> 00:02:29,645 I thought this is perfect for our community 53 00:02:29,655 --> 00:02:31,965 where we're asked to do ministering interviews, right? 54 00:02:32,305 --> 00:02:34,525 All sorts of one-to-one meetings outside of 55 00:02:34,525 --> 00:02:35,685 that if you're a bishop and, 56 00:02:35,825 --> 00:02:38,085 and a really excited President Elko president. 57 00:02:38,185 --> 00:02:39,965 So I wanted to jump into this, 58 00:02:39,985 --> 00:02:41,445 and it turned out to be a great read. 59 00:02:41,465 --> 00:02:43,085 It just turned into a great interview. 60 00:02:43,425 --> 00:02:46,085 And listen in this interview as far as just the basics 61 00:02:46,085 --> 00:02:48,365 of having a ministering interview, 62 00:02:48,745 --> 00:02:51,005 but the start, the heart and the ending. 63 00:02:51,505 --> 00:02:53,405 And these are crucial components. 64 00:02:53,725 --> 00:02:55,285 'cause if you're in, like my experience 65 00:02:55,485 --> 00:02:56,765 whenever I've done ministering interviews 66 00:02:56,785 --> 00:02:58,485 or been a part of one, sometimes they can be 67 00:02:58,485 --> 00:02:59,600 a little awkward, right? 68 00:02:59,625 --> 00:03:01,165 You don't know what to say or start to 69 00:03:01,165 --> 00:03:02,205 how much time do we take? 70 00:03:02,545 --> 00:03:04,605 And so Steven gives some great perspective 71 00:03:05,065 --> 00:03:06,725 and best practices on how 72 00:03:06,725 --> 00:03:08,485 to step into these one-to-one meetings. 73 00:03:08,705 --> 00:03:10,285 And then also listen for near the end, 74 00:03:10,285 --> 00:03:12,685 we talk about one-to-one meetings in the context 75 00:03:12,705 --> 00:03:14,365 of the home, especially with our children. 76 00:03:14,785 --> 00:03:15,965 How do we go about that? Right? 77 00:03:15,975 --> 00:03:18,685 Maybe some of you grew up in maybe a very rigid home 78 00:03:18,685 --> 00:03:21,165 where you're in your, your dad's, you know, office and 79 00:03:21,345 --> 00:03:23,365 and he's giving you this priesthood interview. 80 00:03:23,465 --> 00:03:26,365 But, uh, uh, how can we go about giving effective interviews 81 00:03:26,365 --> 00:03:28,685 and starting conversations with our, 82 00:03:28,705 --> 00:03:30,805 our children no matter what their ages are? 83 00:03:30,985 --> 00:03:32,645 Now, like I said, Stephen Rogel Berg 84 00:03:32,645 --> 00:03:33,805 is not a latter day saint. 85 00:03:33,805 --> 00:03:36,165 And so we, he talks a lot in the context 86 00:03:36,265 --> 00:03:39,685 of a secular office type of, uh, culture or dynamic. 87 00:03:39,985 --> 00:03:42,325 But all these principles are so applicable 88 00:03:42,325 --> 00:03:44,205 to our church experience as leaders. 89 00:03:44,265 --> 00:03:45,325 So let's get into it. 90 00:03:45,395 --> 00:03:48,965 Here is my interview with Steven Rogel, the author 91 00:03:49,105 --> 00:03:53,125 of Glad We Met The Art and Science of One-to-One Meetings. 92 00:04:03,585 --> 00:04:04,925 All right. Today I get a welcome back, 93 00:04:05,225 --> 00:04:06,565 Steven Rogel Berg, 94 00:04:06,905 --> 00:04:08,565 the Leading Saints podcast. How are you, Steven? 95 00:04:08,905 --> 00:04:10,485 - I'm good. It's great to be back. Yeah, 96 00:04:10,485 --> 00:04:11,485 - Really good to be back. 97 00:04:11,485 --> 00:04:12,805 And we were just, uh, chatting the, 98 00:04:12,805 --> 00:04:14,765 the last time we chatted was weeks 99 00:04:14,825 --> 00:04:17,605 before the world turned upside down with, uh, CO 100 00:04:17,905 --> 00:04:21,085 and, uh, part of the meetings with Saints Virtual Conference 101 00:04:21,085 --> 00:04:22,485 that I was organizing online. 102 00:04:22,585 --> 00:04:24,565 And very few people at that time wanted 103 00:04:24,565 --> 00:04:26,525 to watch a virtual conference about meetings, 104 00:04:26,525 --> 00:04:28,085 but it was still a fantastic interview 105 00:04:28,315 --> 00:04:29,805 that we had. So 106 00:04:29,955 --> 00:04:30,955 - Well, thanks. 107 00:04:30,955 --> 00:04:33,165 Yeah. That was, uh, it was crazy times. 108 00:04:33,425 --> 00:04:37,205 It was, I mean, the interesting thing is probably a month 109 00:04:37,205 --> 00:04:39,965 or two after our recording would've been a perfect 110 00:04:39,965 --> 00:04:41,285 time to release it, right? Because 111 00:04:41,285 --> 00:04:42,565 - People were - Exactly, are interested 112 00:04:42,945 --> 00:04:44,925 in how to do these meetings. Yeah. 113 00:04:44,925 --> 00:04:46,365 - The, the trauma was a little bit thick, 114 00:04:46,385 --> 00:04:47,525 the those first few months. 115 00:04:47,825 --> 00:04:49,045 Oh, that's for sure. Yeah. 116 00:04:49,065 --> 00:04:51,085 No, and that time we were talking about the 117 00:04:51,085 --> 00:04:52,605 Surprising Science of meetings. 118 00:04:52,605 --> 00:04:54,725 That's your, I don't know if that was your first book, 119 00:04:54,745 --> 00:04:56,325 but your first meetings book, or, 120 00:04:56,555 --> 00:04:58,765 - That was my first book for general audiences. 121 00:04:58,955 --> 00:05:02,005 - Okay, gotcha. And you are a, a professor. 122 00:05:02,005 --> 00:05:03,805 Maybe give some of your background on your 123 00:05:03,845 --> 00:05:05,165 professional path. 124 00:05:05,315 --> 00:05:07,045 - Sure. So I hold the title 125 00:05:07,105 --> 00:05:09,365 of Chancellor's professor at University 126 00:05:09,365 --> 00:05:10,485 of North Carolina, Charlotte. 127 00:05:11,225 --> 00:05:14,125 And yeah, I am this crazy academic 128 00:05:14,395 --> 00:05:18,205 that has been studying meetings for 20 plus years. 129 00:05:18,705 --> 00:05:21,085 And it's been a crazy ride 130 00:05:21,085 --> 00:05:23,245 because this content has gone viral. 131 00:05:23,745 --> 00:05:28,405 And the first book was, again, to my complete surprise, 132 00:05:28,625 --> 00:05:30,165 was a crazy success. 133 00:05:30,825 --> 00:05:33,645 And then my new book, glad We Met The Art and Science 134 00:05:33,665 --> 00:05:37,085 and one-on-one, one-on-one meetings just came out in January 135 00:05:37,945 --> 00:05:38,965 and that one's doing better. 136 00:05:39,345 --> 00:05:43,885 And so Oh, cool. There's clearly really meaningful appetite 137 00:05:44,305 --> 00:05:46,325 for identifying 138 00:05:46,425 --> 00:05:49,205 and leveraging science to take these 139 00:05:50,445 --> 00:05:53,805 critical opportunities at work that are causing pain 140 00:05:54,305 --> 00:05:55,965 and make them truly work for us. 141 00:05:56,665 --> 00:06:00,045 And so I'm thrilled. It's fun. It's totally good. 142 00:06:00,185 --> 00:06:01,285 - That's cool. Now, I, 143 00:06:01,405 --> 00:06:03,325 I mentioned my audience like I did last time. 144 00:06:03,345 --> 00:06:04,685 You are not a latter day saint, 145 00:06:04,705 --> 00:06:06,045 but you obviously do research. 146 00:06:06,095 --> 00:06:07,805 Think it'd be very helpful for us Latter 147 00:06:07,805 --> 00:06:09,005 Day Saints, uh, out there. 148 00:06:09,505 --> 00:06:12,045 And, uh, with this new book you mentioned just briefly, the, 149 00:06:12,045 --> 00:06:14,245 the proceeds are going to the, is it the, 150 00:06:14,465 --> 00:06:15,645 uh, cancer Society? 151 00:06:15,875 --> 00:06:18,005 - Yeah. Everything goes to the American Cancer Society 152 00:06:18,625 --> 00:06:21,525 in honor of my sister-in-Law and her fight with cancer. 153 00:06:22,105 --> 00:06:25,845 And I do, I do have a branch of my family that Oh, yeah. 154 00:06:25,995 --> 00:06:27,125 Yeah. I don't know if you 155 00:06:27,125 --> 00:06:28,365 recall, but, um, yeah, that's right. 156 00:06:28,905 --> 00:06:32,005 So the, but yeah, with the last name Rogel Berg, 157 00:06:32,035 --> 00:06:34,805 it's probably not a typical last name and . 158 00:06:35,185 --> 00:06:36,605 - That's right, that's right. 159 00:06:36,605 --> 00:06:39,525 Well, that's awesome to have, uh, some real meaning, 160 00:06:39,545 --> 00:06:41,365 you know, I think a lot of people that hear meetings 161 00:06:41,365 --> 00:06:44,005 and it's sort of like this dry, you know, corporate Yeah. 162 00:06:44,215 --> 00:06:45,645 Topic, which, uh, you make it 163 00:06:45,845 --> 00:06:46,965 interesting, especially with your research. 164 00:06:46,985 --> 00:06:49,325 And so then That's right. Try there's a personal meaning 165 00:06:49,325 --> 00:06:52,365 through, uh, behind the book and the proceeds and whatnot. 166 00:06:52,485 --> 00:06:54,845 That's awesome. And glad we can help promote that for sure. 167 00:06:55,035 --> 00:06:56,685 Well, thank you. So, so what, I mean, 168 00:06:56,685 --> 00:06:59,445 was this a natural next step to the one-on-one meeting or, 169 00:06:59,725 --> 00:07:01,525 'cause I mean, once the, I saw the book 170 00:07:01,525 --> 00:07:02,925 that came out, I was like, of course. 171 00:07:03,275 --> 00:07:06,125 Like, why, why isn't there a whole library full of these, 172 00:07:06,125 --> 00:07:07,365 this concept of one-on-one meetings? 173 00:07:07,485 --> 00:07:09,405 'cause we're all in these things and, 174 00:07:09,425 --> 00:07:11,765 and meetings is like a general meaning is one thing, 175 00:07:11,865 --> 00:07:13,485 but like the awkwardness 176 00:07:13,485 --> 00:07:16,165 of a one-to-one meeting could be really palpable, right? 177 00:07:16,165 --> 00:07:18,445 Yeah. So how did this, uh, idea come about for this book? 178 00:07:18,755 --> 00:07:22,285 - Well, after I wrote the first book in my mind I was like, 179 00:07:22,745 --> 00:07:23,885 I'm not doing a second book. 180 00:07:24,385 --> 00:07:27,325 You know, I only wanna write books if I feel like I 181 00:07:27,325 --> 00:07:28,405 have something to say. 182 00:07:29,225 --> 00:07:32,245 And then it was probably a couple years past 183 00:07:32,345 --> 00:07:33,365 and I'm like, gosh, you know, 184 00:07:33,405 --> 00:07:35,045 I think there's an amazing opportunity 185 00:07:35,045 --> 00:07:36,925 around this notion of one-on-ones. 186 00:07:37,625 --> 00:07:41,125 And unlike my first book, this space is Wide Open. 187 00:07:41,705 --> 00:07:44,405 It was basically, you go on to Amazon or what have you, 188 00:07:44,405 --> 00:07:46,685 and looking for good books on one-on-one meetings, 189 00:07:46,685 --> 00:07:49,285 you're not gonna find anything. 190 00:07:49,285 --> 00:07:51,765 And so it was really a different experience 191 00:07:51,785 --> 00:07:54,525 to write a book in a really, in an empty space. 192 00:07:55,505 --> 00:07:57,525 And this book is really different 193 00:07:57,675 --> 00:07:59,805 because it captures both the art 194 00:08:00,105 --> 00:08:02,005 and science of one-on-one meetings. 195 00:08:02,165 --> 00:08:05,085 'cause one-on-one meetings do have art to them as well. 196 00:08:05,665 --> 00:08:07,325 But let me step back for a minute 197 00:08:07,785 --> 00:08:11,045 and tell you what I mean by a one-on-one meeting. 198 00:08:11,115 --> 00:08:13,245 Okay. Would that be okay? Yeah. Okay. 199 00:08:13,705 --> 00:08:15,485 So obviously we have 200 00:08:16,345 --> 00:08:20,205 so many one-on-one encounters at work and in life, right? 201 00:08:20,205 --> 00:08:22,045 We're always chatting with people, 202 00:08:22,215 --> 00:08:24,525 we're having these quick one-on-ones with peers 203 00:08:24,785 --> 00:08:26,565 or a boss or what have you. 204 00:08:27,155 --> 00:08:29,005 When I talk about a one-on-one meeting, 205 00:08:29,585 --> 00:08:31,485 I'm talking about something quite unique. 206 00:08:32,065 --> 00:08:35,605 I'm talking about a regular reoccurring meeting 207 00:08:35,635 --> 00:08:36,885 between a manager 208 00:08:37,385 --> 00:08:40,645 and their people to discuss what is on the minds 209 00:08:40,945 --> 00:08:45,125 of their directs, to better understand their concerns, 210 00:08:45,335 --> 00:08:47,245 their challenges, and to look 211 00:08:47,245 --> 00:08:49,045 for opportunities to provide support. 212 00:08:49,625 --> 00:08:51,685 So while this meeting is orchestrated 213 00:08:51,825 --> 00:08:55,005 and facilitated by a manager, it is not for them. 214 00:08:55,625 --> 00:08:56,725 It is for their people. 215 00:08:57,385 --> 00:09:01,245 It is the opportunity to truly see your people. 216 00:09:02,185 --> 00:09:05,085 And what's important to remember is managers have tons 217 00:09:05,085 --> 00:09:07,965 of opportunities to meet with their people 218 00:09:08,065 --> 00:09:09,245 and get what they want. 219 00:09:10,035 --> 00:09:13,965 This is that one predictable time where the employee 220 00:09:14,705 --> 00:09:18,005 get their needs met, and it's all about genuine 221 00:09:18,785 --> 00:09:20,285 and meaningful connection. 222 00:09:20,755 --> 00:09:22,845 - Nice. Yeah. And, and as you hear that, like a, 223 00:09:22,845 --> 00:09:25,005 a leading saints audience, a lot of things are jumping out 224 00:09:25,005 --> 00:09:26,685 of that because in our faith tradition, 225 00:09:27,285 --> 00:09:30,365 I think the one-to-one meetings are actually more common in 226 00:09:30,365 --> 00:09:31,725 our faith tradition than maybe the, 227 00:09:31,845 --> 00:09:33,965 the typical Evangelical or Catholic path. 228 00:09:33,965 --> 00:09:36,885 Yeah. Because we have what, uh, is called ministering, 229 00:09:36,885 --> 00:09:39,885 where every every individual in a, 230 00:09:39,945 --> 00:09:43,045 in a congregation is assigned a handful of families Mm-Hmm. 231 00:09:43,085 --> 00:09:44,885 or individuals that they can check up 232 00:09:44,885 --> 00:09:45,965 on and visit regularly. 233 00:09:45,985 --> 00:09:47,765 And then the elders quo president 234 00:09:47,765 --> 00:09:49,645 or the Relief Society president, which is sort of like the, 235 00:09:49,945 --> 00:09:52,965 the middle manager of the congregation, they are asked 236 00:09:53,065 --> 00:09:56,685 to do one-to-one ministering meetings with everybody 237 00:09:56,875 --> 00:09:57,885 that they, you know, 238 00:09:58,275 --> 00:10:02,245 preside over at least once a once a quarter. 239 00:10:02,705 --> 00:10:04,485 And this is somewhat of a new thing. 240 00:10:04,745 --> 00:10:06,885 And it's become, uh, everybody, you know, 241 00:10:06,885 --> 00:10:10,205 as I talk generally to people, they, you know, 242 00:10:10,205 --> 00:10:12,485 there's not a lot of positive experiences that come 243 00:10:12,485 --> 00:10:15,885 to the surface because it's, it can feel forced, like, oh, 244 00:10:15,885 --> 00:10:17,085 you're just doing this 'cause Mm-Hmm. 245 00:10:17,125 --> 00:10:18,445 , you're supposed to do it right. 246 00:10:18,465 --> 00:10:19,565 And you don't really care. 247 00:10:19,785 --> 00:10:22,325 And you know, I, I only really, you're supposed to meet 248 00:10:22,325 --> 00:10:24,285 with me every quarter, but I've only seen you once every 249 00:10:24,285 --> 00:10:25,405 two years and Right. 250 00:10:25,545 --> 00:10:28,965 And so this is why this just jumped out at me when I saw, 251 00:10:29,025 --> 00:10:32,765 saw this book that it really is this, uh, like 252 00:10:33,275 --> 00:10:35,245 it's a new dynamic to approach something 253 00:10:35,245 --> 00:10:36,285 like this that's regular. 254 00:10:36,285 --> 00:10:38,165 Right. Right. It's one thing to have a meeting 255 00:10:38,425 --> 00:10:40,285 or a general meeting, but this is a different dynamic. 256 00:10:40,945 --> 00:10:43,285 - And I mean, this notion of feeling seen 257 00:10:43,825 --> 00:10:45,165 is really powerful. 258 00:10:45,215 --> 00:10:48,525 Right. As humans, that's what we crave, right. 259 00:10:48,625 --> 00:10:51,885 We, we crave being seen, especially by people who 260 00:10:52,465 --> 00:10:54,405 are higher power than us. 261 00:10:54,405 --> 00:10:57,205 Yeah. Yeah. And if we all think back to a time 262 00:10:57,215 --> 00:11:01,285 where we had a, a manager take a genuine interest in us, 263 00:11:01,715 --> 00:11:02,845 that stuck with us. 264 00:11:03,255 --> 00:11:05,525 Right. It was just transformative. 265 00:11:06,185 --> 00:11:09,765 And what's so interesting is that while one-on-one meetings, 266 00:11:09,765 --> 00:11:13,765 like I described, brings humanity into work, 267 00:11:14,435 --> 00:11:17,325 it's also really good business sense. 268 00:11:18,145 --> 00:11:22,165 Namely the data are so incredibly robust 269 00:11:22,165 --> 00:11:24,485 that when managers are doing these one-on-ones, 270 00:11:24,485 --> 00:11:28,445 like I'm describing that employees report much higher levels 271 00:11:28,465 --> 00:11:31,125 of engagement, thriving retention, 272 00:11:31,415 --> 00:11:34,125 we've all heard the expression that people don't leave 273 00:11:34,785 --> 00:11:36,405 bad jobs, they leave bad bosses. 274 00:11:36,635 --> 00:11:38,285 Yeah. Right. This is your opportunity 275 00:11:38,285 --> 00:11:39,525 to prove you're not a bad boss. 276 00:11:40,315 --> 00:11:41,805 It's tied to success. 277 00:11:42,155 --> 00:11:44,565 Like productivity increases to the extent 278 00:11:44,565 --> 00:11:47,045 that this employee is able to share and get support. 279 00:11:47,585 --> 00:11:50,285 But here's the piece that surprises a lot of people. 280 00:11:50,945 --> 00:11:54,965 It actually makes the manager more successful that by giving 281 00:11:55,065 --> 00:11:58,285 to their directs in this way, they're more successful. 282 00:11:58,945 --> 00:12:03,365 Namely, managers are ultimately evaluated by the success 283 00:12:03,465 --> 00:12:06,165 of the people that report into them and their teams. 284 00:12:06,875 --> 00:12:10,325 This is an opportunity to lift others' performance, 285 00:12:10,625 --> 00:12:13,205 and it's only a good reflection on you. 286 00:12:13,715 --> 00:12:17,565 Furthermore, we even have data that suggests that managers, 287 00:12:17,565 --> 00:12:19,525 when they were having these regular one-on-ones, 288 00:12:19,635 --> 00:12:22,725 they reported less interruptions between meetings 289 00:12:22,755 --> 00:12:24,765 because employees would just save their 290 00:12:24,765 --> 00:12:26,485 issues for these regular. 291 00:12:27,145 --> 00:12:31,205 So they had this ability to kind of have more flow time 292 00:12:31,665 --> 00:12:33,605 to engage deeper into their work. 293 00:12:34,265 --> 00:12:37,125 So how often is it the case that we can find something 294 00:12:37,125 --> 00:12:39,925 that's good for humanity and business success? 295 00:12:40,195 --> 00:12:43,085 Yeah. Right. I mean, this is really an 296 00:12:43,085 --> 00:12:45,525 incredible, uh, sweet spot. Yeah. 297 00:12:45,825 --> 00:12:47,285 - And that's the, the misconception. 298 00:12:47,285 --> 00:12:49,285 Sometimes you feel like, oh, I'm supposed to, 299 00:12:49,585 --> 00:12:51,285 I'm just supposed to have these one-to-ones 300 00:12:51,285 --> 00:12:52,645 and check up on their progress 301 00:12:52,785 --> 00:12:54,445 and, you know, how, how are you meeting 302 00:12:54,445 --> 00:12:55,805 with your goals and things like that. 303 00:12:55,825 --> 00:12:58,005 But in reality, this is, it's not about you 304 00:12:58,005 --> 00:13:01,485 and the success of your department or orko or organization, 305 00:13:01,505 --> 00:13:03,685 but it really is about them and, and their development 306 00:13:03,705 --> 00:13:05,125 and how you can help in their journey. 307 00:13:05,425 --> 00:13:07,325 - That's right. Oh, I love how you said that, 308 00:13:07,345 --> 00:13:08,525 how you can help in their journey. 309 00:13:08,945 --> 00:13:11,645 And it's important that, you know, managers realize 310 00:13:12,275 --> 00:13:14,885 that they can get status updates in a million 311 00:13:14,885 --> 00:13:16,165 different ways, right? 312 00:13:16,165 --> 00:13:18,445 They can send an email, they can tell the employee to come 313 00:13:18,445 --> 00:13:19,485 by and tell 'em their updates. 314 00:13:19,485 --> 00:13:20,605 They can do it in a team meeting 315 00:13:20,665 --> 00:13:21,925 so they can get their needs met. 316 00:13:22,485 --> 00:13:24,565 Managers are not the issue here. 317 00:13:25,065 --> 00:13:27,405 But typically when you have these one-on-ones, 318 00:13:27,645 --> 00:13:29,565 employees are gonna share what's going on, 319 00:13:29,615 --> 00:13:30,845 where they're struggling. 320 00:13:31,345 --> 00:13:33,325 You know, they're gonna seek help and guidance. 321 00:13:33,945 --> 00:13:36,365 You know, they might be thinking about their broader PA 322 00:13:36,375 --> 00:13:38,245 place on the team in the organization. 323 00:13:38,915 --> 00:13:40,205 It's just a small investment. 324 00:13:40,945 --> 00:13:42,765 And I think one of the neat things 325 00:13:42,765 --> 00:13:46,445 that also emerged in this research is it really isn't a big 326 00:13:46,445 --> 00:13:50,525 investment that even if a manager is doing these every week 327 00:13:50,525 --> 00:13:52,725 or every other week for just 25 minutes, 328 00:13:53,185 --> 00:13:56,965 but it's a good 25 minutes where you're really dialed into 329 00:13:56,965 --> 00:14:00,045 that other person, it yields really strong 330 00:14:00,565 --> 00:14:03,325 benefits when the amount of time increases. 331 00:14:03,825 --> 00:14:06,125 So let's say a monthly one-on-one, 332 00:14:06,585 --> 00:14:09,725 you still get some benefits, but in general you don't. 333 00:14:10,425 --> 00:14:12,565 And then if you move to the quarter, kind 334 00:14:12,565 --> 00:14:14,005 of using your example, you just don't 335 00:14:14,005 --> 00:14:15,045 get the same benefits, right. 336 00:14:15,045 --> 00:14:17,685 Because it's no longer a process. Yeah. 337 00:14:17,685 --> 00:14:18,885 Then it's just an event. 338 00:14:19,465 --> 00:14:24,285 And events are experience very, very differently than things 339 00:14:24,285 --> 00:14:25,685 that seem more process. 340 00:14:26,055 --> 00:14:29,005 Right. So if you see me meeting with you every other week 341 00:14:29,025 --> 00:14:32,405 or every week, you know it's genuine, right? 342 00:14:32,635 --> 00:14:34,285 It's a genuine interest. 343 00:14:34,745 --> 00:14:38,125 And as a result, that's where we can get the greatest value. 344 00:14:38,505 --> 00:14:41,685 - Gotcha. So the, the more often you can meet 345 00:14:41,685 --> 00:14:44,845 with those direct reports, the more of that you're hitting 346 00:14:44,845 --> 00:14:47,525 that process point rather than Right. 347 00:14:47,525 --> 00:14:49,845 - It, it just feels, there's just, it, 348 00:14:50,025 --> 00:14:52,005 it comes across much more sincere. 349 00:14:52,355 --> 00:14:55,765 Yeah. Right. So if I say to you, listen, I really wanna get 350 00:14:55,765 --> 00:14:57,565 to know you, let's meet every six months. 351 00:14:57,815 --> 00:14:59,085 Right? You, I'm like, okay, 352 00:14:59,085 --> 00:15:01,125 well I guess you don't really wanna get to know me. 353 00:15:01,285 --> 00:15:02,685 'cause that's not a very big commitment. 354 00:15:03,145 --> 00:15:06,005 And you know, and I think the other interesting tie in is, 355 00:15:06,065 --> 00:15:10,125 you know, as people come back to work post covid, you know, 356 00:15:10,125 --> 00:15:13,165 what people missed is not having more meetings at work. 357 00:15:13,635 --> 00:15:16,725 What they missed is genuine connections, right? 358 00:15:16,725 --> 00:15:17,845 Meaningful connections. 359 00:15:18,305 --> 00:15:19,565 And this is a great example 360 00:15:19,825 --> 00:15:22,525 of promoting these meaningful connections. Yeah. 361 00:15:22,985 --> 00:15:24,685 - So maybe give us just the, the, 362 00:15:24,685 --> 00:15:26,925 the crash course on holding one-to-one. 363 00:15:26,925 --> 00:15:28,925 Obviously people can deep dive into your book 364 00:15:28,925 --> 00:15:31,965 and I would recommend it, uh, to really get the, the nuances 365 00:15:31,965 --> 00:15:33,805 and the tips and tricks and tools and things. 366 00:15:33,865 --> 00:15:36,645 But like, if I'm walking into a one-to-one in, 367 00:15:36,825 --> 00:15:39,165 in a half hour, like what are some things I can consider 368 00:15:39,225 --> 00:15:41,125 or the room I should use, the how to start, 369 00:15:41,185 --> 00:15:42,245 how to end those types of things? 370 00:15:42,475 --> 00:15:43,805 - Sure. I mean, there's so much. 371 00:15:44,275 --> 00:15:46,645 That was the fun part of doing all this science 372 00:15:46,785 --> 00:15:49,285 and trying to provide readers with 373 00:15:49,465 --> 00:15:50,565 so many different choices. 374 00:15:51,425 --> 00:15:53,125 And 'cause there isn't a magic formula, 375 00:15:53,315 --> 00:15:54,405 there's just choices. 376 00:15:55,185 --> 00:15:58,965 And then my hope is that people pick choices that fit 377 00:15:58,985 --> 00:16:01,405 who they are as well as who their direct is. 378 00:16:02,225 --> 00:16:05,445 So yes, we can think of this as being, you know, 379 00:16:05,445 --> 00:16:07,525 having three principle phases, right? 380 00:16:07,525 --> 00:16:09,885 There's the start, the heart and the end. 381 00:16:10,665 --> 00:16:14,165 And you know, the start is all about being sure 382 00:16:14,195 --> 00:16:17,525 that you have some type of lightweight agenda here. 383 00:16:18,105 --> 00:16:21,525 You know, namely the one-on-ones were evaluated more 384 00:16:21,525 --> 00:16:23,445 effectively or evaluated 385 00:16:23,445 --> 00:16:25,605 as being more effective when there was some 386 00:16:25,605 --> 00:16:26,765 type of agenda created. 387 00:16:27,025 --> 00:16:29,805 But was most key is who created the agenda. 388 00:16:30,415 --> 00:16:32,365 Where the more the direct was involved, 389 00:16:32,465 --> 00:16:34,445 the higher the ratings of effectiveness. 390 00:16:34,445 --> 00:16:36,485 Because remember, this meeting is for the direct. 391 00:16:36,825 --> 00:16:38,645 So therefore we want the direct to either come 392 00:16:38,645 --> 00:16:40,965 to the meeting with a set of topics 393 00:16:40,995 --> 00:16:42,285 that they want talk about, 394 00:16:43,185 --> 00:16:45,965 or that we have a set of core questions 395 00:16:45,965 --> 00:16:48,525 that the direct has either given us 396 00:16:49,025 --> 00:16:50,965 or provide feedback on. 397 00:16:51,705 --> 00:16:55,245 We then wanna start the meeting with two awesome questions. 398 00:16:56,025 --> 00:16:58,005 So first is, how are you, 399 00:16:58,355 --> 00:17:02,005 however, how are you Question typically doesn't work, 400 00:17:02,265 --> 00:17:03,525 but it can with a twist. 401 00:17:03,835 --> 00:17:05,765 Okay? , namely, when you ask someone how are you, 402 00:17:05,765 --> 00:17:07,925 they will typically say, good, great. 403 00:17:08,105 --> 00:17:10,165 Pretty good. Right? You just don't get much. 404 00:17:10,165 --> 00:17:11,645 They get automatic responses. 405 00:17:12,345 --> 00:17:15,925 But the research shows that if you ask someone, how are you, 406 00:17:15,945 --> 00:17:19,045 but answer on a 10 point scale with one being terrible, 407 00:17:19,745 --> 00:17:22,685 10 being great, how are you really? 408 00:17:23,425 --> 00:17:26,685 Now you get responses of sixes, sevens, fives, 409 00:17:26,905 --> 00:17:28,405 and now you have something to work with. 410 00:17:28,825 --> 00:17:30,165 Now you can say, tell me more. 411 00:17:30,465 --> 00:17:33,165 Or you can say, how can I help you become a seven? 412 00:17:33,905 --> 00:17:36,845 All right, so there's a good basic starting question. 413 00:17:36,845 --> 00:17:40,165 Another great starting question is to ask people, Hey, 414 00:17:40,245 --> 00:17:44,245 I know you were struggling with X and you were gonna try Y. 415 00:17:44,585 --> 00:17:45,685 How did that go for you? 416 00:17:46,195 --> 00:17:48,165 When you have a question like that, people know 417 00:17:48,165 --> 00:17:51,045 that you're listening, that you're making these connections, 418 00:17:51,045 --> 00:17:52,205 and it's really powerful. 419 00:17:52,785 --> 00:17:55,205 All right. So there's some examples, there's more. Okay. 420 00:17:55,205 --> 00:17:56,725 But those are some examples. Yeah. 421 00:17:56,915 --> 00:17:59,765 Then during the meeting itself, you know, the employee, 422 00:18:00,065 --> 00:18:02,525 you know, while the manager is kind of creating a structure, 423 00:18:02,785 --> 00:18:04,325 you know, maybe with these core questions, 424 00:18:04,325 --> 00:18:06,165 or again, the listing approach that I talked about, 425 00:18:07,205 --> 00:18:10,485 ultimately the goal is to get the direct 426 00:18:10,745 --> 00:18:12,125 to talk and to share. 427 00:18:12,865 --> 00:18:15,805 And the manager has to be an awesome listener. 428 00:18:16,505 --> 00:18:19,645 In fact, another one of the excellent predictors 429 00:18:19,645 --> 00:18:21,725 of ineffectiveness is if the manager talks 430 00:18:21,725 --> 00:18:23,205 more than the direct. 431 00:18:23,945 --> 00:18:26,205 So the manager has to close their mouth 432 00:18:26,945 --> 00:18:30,725 and say the things that they say are things such 433 00:18:30,725 --> 00:18:31,845 as, tell me more. 434 00:18:32,155 --> 00:18:35,485 Help me understand what can I do to help? Right? 435 00:18:35,535 --> 00:18:36,685 Those are the types of things 436 00:18:36,685 --> 00:18:38,325 that they should really be featuring. 437 00:18:38,865 --> 00:18:41,125 Now, don't get me wrong, they can certainly share a 438 00:18:41,125 --> 00:18:44,805 perspective, but ultimately they don't wanna render 439 00:18:44,945 --> 00:18:46,205 the employee impotent. 440 00:18:46,505 --> 00:18:49,445 So if the employee brings to you a problem, the thing 441 00:18:49,445 --> 00:18:52,045 that the manager should say is, so what are your thoughts on 442 00:18:52,045 --> 00:18:53,125 how to address this problem? 443 00:18:53,825 --> 00:18:56,325 And then once the employee shares, you know, 444 00:18:56,325 --> 00:18:58,925 unless it's an absolutely horrific idea 445 00:18:58,995 --> 00:19:02,045 that has meaningful negative consequences, let it go. 446 00:19:02,215 --> 00:19:04,525 Right? Pick your battles as a manager. 447 00:19:04,625 --> 00:19:06,485 You don't have to make your employees all do 448 00:19:06,485 --> 00:19:07,805 exactly how you would do things. 449 00:19:08,505 --> 00:19:11,485 And so pick your battles if it's really critical, intervene, 450 00:19:11,485 --> 00:19:12,725 if not, let it go. 451 00:19:13,265 --> 00:19:14,485 So you have the heart 452 00:19:14,485 --> 00:19:16,685 where there's this free flowing conversation, 453 00:19:17,145 --> 00:19:20,085 but it's really the managers kind of prompting the employee 454 00:19:20,085 --> 00:19:23,925 to really engage and explore lots of offering of help. 455 00:19:24,115 --> 00:19:26,565 Lots of, you know, appropriate vulnerability to try 456 00:19:26,565 --> 00:19:28,205 to create a safe environment. 457 00:19:28,745 --> 00:19:33,165 And then we move to the close and the close has to exist, 458 00:19:33,385 --> 00:19:36,045 and it can't, just a close is actually a thing. 459 00:19:36,625 --> 00:19:40,765 So when you think about closing, both parties talk about 460 00:19:40,765 --> 00:19:42,485 what they're taking away from the conversation. 461 00:19:42,625 --> 00:19:46,005 So who's doing what? I'm gonna do this. You'll do that. 462 00:19:46,525 --> 00:19:49,165 Fabulous. So there's this meaningful recap so 463 00:19:49,165 --> 00:19:51,485 that no one leaves there wondering what was decided. 464 00:19:51,905 --> 00:19:54,725 And then finally, you wanna try to end on a positive, right? 465 00:19:54,725 --> 00:19:56,605 We wanna find something positive. 466 00:19:57,265 --> 00:20:00,685 We have a tendency to readily find problems. 467 00:20:01,505 --> 00:20:04,085 And so we wanna challenge ourselves to end on a positive. 468 00:20:04,665 --> 00:20:07,045 So those are some of the key pieces, 469 00:20:07,145 --> 00:20:08,245 but there's so much more. 470 00:20:08,405 --> 00:20:10,365 I mean, that's the kind of, the neat thing about the book is 471 00:20:10,405 --> 00:20:13,085 I lay out the most powerful core questions. 472 00:20:13,505 --> 00:20:16,525 You know, I lay out how managers can deal with 473 00:20:17,085 --> 00:20:19,925 negative emotions, how they can provide feedback, 474 00:20:20,305 --> 00:20:22,045 how they can actually create a climate 475 00:20:22,055 --> 00:20:25,725 where they can actually ask for feedback from their directs. 476 00:20:26,225 --> 00:20:27,485 And so there's a lot to it, 477 00:20:28,145 --> 00:20:31,365 but that's the beauty of the one-on-One is that it can have 478 00:20:31,465 --> 00:20:33,405 so many different dimensions. Yeah. 479 00:20:33,865 --> 00:20:36,085 - And now on the cover of your book, you have a, you know, 480 00:20:36,275 --> 00:20:39,165 have two chairs displayed facing one another, and, 481 00:20:39,165 --> 00:20:41,165 and that's sort of the typical, uh, layout 482 00:20:41,235 --> 00:20:42,685 that we, we assume, yeah. 483 00:20:42,685 --> 00:20:45,485 Walking in one of these. But I mean, is there benefit 484 00:20:45,585 --> 00:20:47,765 of doing, you know, going on a walk together 485 00:20:48,025 --> 00:20:50,405 or doing it in a different setting or, uh, great. 486 00:20:50,545 --> 00:20:52,005 Or do you wanna make sure it's, 487 00:20:52,025 --> 00:20:54,245 you're in a private setting? What comes to mind? 488 00:20:54,315 --> 00:20:55,565 - Good, excellent question. 489 00:20:56,265 --> 00:20:59,045 So what the data showed is that the location 490 00:20:59,115 --> 00:21:01,645 that was had the highest ratings of 491 00:21:02,365 --> 00:21:04,845 desirability was actually the manager's office. 492 00:21:05,885 --> 00:21:07,885 The location with the lowest ratings 493 00:21:07,885 --> 00:21:09,845 of desirability was the direct's office. 494 00:21:10,715 --> 00:21:13,765 Then taking a walk meeting at a cafe 495 00:21:14,065 --> 00:21:16,725 or sitting on a park bench, they tended 496 00:21:16,725 --> 00:21:18,565 to have more bimodal responses. 497 00:21:18,915 --> 00:21:21,765 Some people absolutely loved it, but others hated it. 498 00:21:22,315 --> 00:21:26,325 Virtual versus face-to-face, almost exactly tied. 499 00:21:26,865 --> 00:21:28,925 But generally employees just like the idea 500 00:21:29,025 --> 00:21:30,725 of some face-to-face. 501 00:21:31,345 --> 00:21:33,885 But generally, if they were conducted well, 502 00:21:33,955 --> 00:21:36,965 they were totally fine with the virtual option. Gotcha. 503 00:21:37,505 --> 00:21:41,165 - The - Key in this is for the manager to ask, right? 504 00:21:41,165 --> 00:21:42,925 Because that's another one of those signals 505 00:21:42,925 --> 00:21:44,285 that this meeting is not for them. 506 00:21:44,865 --> 00:21:47,765 So as a manager, when you tell your people, Hey, you know, 507 00:21:47,955 --> 00:21:49,925 come prepared with what you wanna talk about, 508 00:21:50,375 --> 00:21:51,445 where do you wanna do this? 509 00:21:51,615 --> 00:21:53,645 Right? These all become those signals 510 00:21:54,115 --> 00:21:55,845 that this is not your typical meeting. 511 00:21:56,315 --> 00:21:59,245 This is something different. And I really think it's an 512 00:21:59,245 --> 00:22:02,405 important to think about this word signals, 513 00:22:02,865 --> 00:22:04,565 and I know this will resonate you 514 00:22:04,565 --> 00:22:07,885 with you On a personal level too, when we think about 515 00:22:08,545 --> 00:22:12,925 our behaviors and our values, our behaviors signal 516 00:22:13,595 --> 00:22:15,045 what we value, right? 517 00:22:15,045 --> 00:22:16,205 When we meet with our people 518 00:22:16,465 --> 00:22:18,965 and take an interest in them, that tells you a lot about 519 00:22:18,965 --> 00:22:21,005 who we are as human beings. 520 00:22:21,585 --> 00:22:25,485 If we don't do certain things, the lack of behavior 521 00:22:26,145 --> 00:22:27,805 are also signals. 522 00:22:28,405 --> 00:22:32,405 Hmm. So when you're not willing to find time, dedicated time 523 00:22:32,625 --> 00:22:35,085 for your people, you are sending a signal. 524 00:22:35,225 --> 00:22:36,685 Mm-Hmm. . And it's not a signal 525 00:22:36,685 --> 00:22:38,845 that reflects very well on you, . 526 00:22:38,865 --> 00:22:41,925 So it's, I would contest that this 527 00:22:42,665 --> 00:22:43,925 is not an option. 528 00:22:44,555 --> 00:22:47,285 This is the requirement of being a leader. 529 00:22:47,825 --> 00:22:50,365 So as leaders are trying, you know, figuring out, 530 00:22:51,145 --> 00:22:53,445 or, you know, listening to the information, the data, 531 00:22:54,255 --> 00:22:57,565 there really isn't, it's not like a cost benefit analysis. 532 00:22:57,705 --> 00:22:59,565 Mm-Hmm. , this is really the 533 00:22:59,615 --> 00:23:00,805 stage for leadership. 534 00:23:01,465 --> 00:23:04,685 And then, you know, the other thing is to remind yourself 535 00:23:05,035 --> 00:23:08,925 that you will make more time by doing these. 536 00:23:09,145 --> 00:23:11,285 And I'll give you the most basic silly example. 537 00:23:11,815 --> 00:23:16,085 These types of meetings decrease rework time, right? 538 00:23:16,085 --> 00:23:17,365 Because mm-Hmm. people 539 00:23:17,365 --> 00:23:18,445 get it right the first time. 540 00:23:18,965 --> 00:23:21,965 Hmm. Because these meetings promote more retention 541 00:23:22,385 --> 00:23:26,925 of your best performers, less time having to refill roles, 542 00:23:27,015 --> 00:23:28,885 which we know takes a lot of time. 543 00:23:29,035 --> 00:23:31,125 Yeah. . So anyone that's saying, gosh, 544 00:23:31,245 --> 00:23:32,445 I just don't know, I have time. 545 00:23:32,585 --> 00:23:35,005 If I can do these, you know, we don't debate 546 00:23:35,005 --> 00:23:37,045 that when it comes to brushing our teeth, right? 547 00:23:37,045 --> 00:23:38,165 Yeah. We brush our teeth because 548 00:23:38,165 --> 00:23:39,205 we know you have to do that. 549 00:23:39,265 --> 00:23:43,085 That's right. And that's what this is, this is not a debate. 550 00:23:43,555 --> 00:23:47,885 This is something that in contemporary models of leadership, 551 00:23:48,295 --> 00:23:52,005 especially in the world where people can lack connection, 552 00:23:52,475 --> 00:23:53,685 this is an imperative. 553 00:23:54,095 --> 00:23:57,365 - Right? Yeah. Tell me about like the, you know, it's, 554 00:23:57,365 --> 00:23:59,205 again, it's so easy to sit down on a oneone 555 00:23:59,205 --> 00:24:02,365 and be generally focused on like, key indicators, right? 556 00:24:02,545 --> 00:24:03,485 Mm-Hmm. . And of course 557 00:24:03,565 --> 00:24:04,605 you, you know, how are you doing? 558 00:24:04,605 --> 00:24:06,965 Maybe you try some of the, the one to 10 scale, 559 00:24:06,965 --> 00:24:08,325 and yeah, you wanna make it personal, 560 00:24:08,345 --> 00:24:09,845 but hey, I mean, where, where are you at 561 00:24:09,845 --> 00:24:11,605 with the sales goals or the ministering of visits? 562 00:24:11,705 --> 00:24:13,885 Or how are your families? Or like, it is so easy 563 00:24:13,905 --> 00:24:15,645 to just jump into the Yep. 564 00:24:15,745 --> 00:24:17,525 The progress report type of thing. 565 00:24:17,905 --> 00:24:21,365 But you talk in the book about being authentic and personal 566 00:24:21,385 --> 00:24:22,645 and, and connecting on that way. 567 00:24:22,845 --> 00:24:24,685 'cause you're, the main goal here is to, 568 00:24:24,685 --> 00:24:26,645 you're developing a relationship with those 569 00:24:26,675 --> 00:24:27,685 that you work with, right? 570 00:24:27,685 --> 00:24:31,005 Yeah. So any, any thoughts on making it going with 571 00:24:31,145 --> 00:24:32,965 to authenticity and making it really 572 00:24:33,425 --> 00:24:34,425 - Authenticating? 573 00:24:34,425 --> 00:24:35,845 I love that. Yes. Thank you for that. 574 00:24:36,625 --> 00:24:40,965 We wanna try to create psychologically safe workplaces. 575 00:24:41,515 --> 00:24:45,045 When people feel safe, they tend to bring more of themselves 576 00:24:45,265 --> 00:24:46,325 to the work. 577 00:24:46,955 --> 00:24:49,325 They tend to be more creative, innovative, 578 00:24:49,355 --> 00:24:51,005 they help each other more. 579 00:24:51,625 --> 00:24:56,445 So psychological safety is just so incredibly helpful. 580 00:24:57,185 --> 00:24:59,965 And psychological safety is helpful at work, 581 00:25:00,105 --> 00:25:01,565 at home, everywhere, right? 582 00:25:02,025 --> 00:25:06,325 So people can foster safety by being kind, 583 00:25:06,915 --> 00:25:08,925 listening, not having an 584 00:25:08,925 --> 00:25:11,045 agenda, focusing on the other person. 585 00:25:11,665 --> 00:25:14,605 But also you can create some safety 586 00:25:14,745 --> 00:25:17,165 by being appropriately vulnerable yourself. 587 00:25:17,785 --> 00:25:19,045 So if I tell you, 588 00:25:19,665 --> 00:25:21,725 and again, I don't want managers to dominate, 589 00:25:22,345 --> 00:25:25,365 but when the employee, the direct says to you, how are you? 590 00:25:25,705 --> 00:25:28,005 And you say, I'm, I'm doing, you know, well, 591 00:25:28,505 --> 00:25:30,245 and let's say you share something, but, 592 00:25:30,425 --> 00:25:32,285 but I am struggling a little bit, you know, 593 00:25:32,285 --> 00:25:33,765 my mother's going through some health issues. 594 00:25:33,785 --> 00:25:35,125 So we're trying to navigate that. 595 00:25:36,025 --> 00:25:39,205 And so something, you know, slightly personal, 596 00:25:39,205 --> 00:25:42,565 but not inappropriate, it just creates the opportunity 597 00:25:42,585 --> 00:25:45,165 for others to feel more comfortable sharing. 598 00:25:46,105 --> 00:25:48,965 And so this notion of being appropriately vulnerable, 599 00:25:48,965 --> 00:25:52,125 this notion of being authentic is really helpful. 600 00:25:52,865 --> 00:25:54,245 You know, back in the old days 601 00:25:55,345 --> 00:25:58,005 we thought we'd wanna portray our leaders 602 00:25:58,585 --> 00:26:01,485 as being superheroes with no problems or issues. 603 00:26:01,885 --> 00:26:03,085 . Yeah. Like, we're past that. 604 00:26:03,625 --> 00:26:06,325 We know they're humans, we know that they struggle. 605 00:26:06,985 --> 00:26:10,645 And to the extent that I'm willing to share appropriately 606 00:26:10,785 --> 00:26:14,285 and gently, you're just gonna be comfortable doing that too. 607 00:26:14,335 --> 00:26:15,765 Right? So next thing I know, 608 00:26:15,765 --> 00:26:18,965 if I tell you about going on my, my silly example 609 00:26:18,985 --> 00:26:21,245 of a parent, maybe you might tell me 610 00:26:21,245 --> 00:26:25,685 that you have some struggles with managing some tricky, 611 00:26:26,385 --> 00:26:28,045 you know, work life balance issues. 612 00:26:28,185 --> 00:26:29,525 And then maybe what comes from 613 00:26:29,525 --> 00:26:31,005 that conversation is I can say, well, 614 00:26:31,005 --> 00:26:33,805 why don't you start working at home on Thursdays 615 00:26:33,805 --> 00:26:35,405 and Fridays so you can manage that. 616 00:26:36,185 --> 00:26:37,565 And so who knows 617 00:26:37,565 --> 00:26:40,325 where the conversation can go when there's a little bit 618 00:26:40,325 --> 00:26:42,245 more intimacy to it. 619 00:26:43,045 --> 00:26:47,565 Again, I do wanna stress the manager is not a therapist. 620 00:26:48,155 --> 00:26:50,645 This is not a therapy session. Yeah. Right, right. 621 00:26:50,675 --> 00:26:53,565 This is just a genuine conversation, 622 00:26:53,925 --> 00:26:56,645 A real conversation, but it's not therapy. Yeah. 623 00:26:56,985 --> 00:26:59,285 - And really that, I mean, an ideal situation I would 624 00:26:59,285 --> 00:27:00,605 imagine is, yeah, it's not a therapy, 625 00:27:00,745 --> 00:27:03,525 but if you have a relationship where it gets to a point 626 00:27:03,525 --> 00:27:05,645 of saying like, Hey, have you thought about seeing someone, 627 00:27:05,715 --> 00:27:07,205 like I actually know a few people, 628 00:27:07,275 --> 00:27:09,685 like maybe you should reach out, like even better, right? 629 00:27:09,685 --> 00:27:10,805 That they have a friend there that 630 00:27:10,835 --> 00:27:11,965 understands they're struggling. 631 00:27:12,285 --> 00:27:14,045 I agree. And maybe that they'll send 'em in in the right 632 00:27:14,045 --> 00:27:15,245 direction to get professional help. 633 00:27:15,445 --> 00:27:16,605 - I think that's fabulous. 634 00:27:16,745 --> 00:27:18,165 You know, when we think about the type 635 00:27:18,165 --> 00:27:20,485 of support we can provide others, it doesn't always have 636 00:27:20,485 --> 00:27:21,645 to come from us, right? 637 00:27:21,645 --> 00:27:23,165 Yeah. We can be making referrals 638 00:27:23,165 --> 00:27:24,925 and suggestions to involve others. 639 00:27:25,395 --> 00:27:26,525 Yeah. I like that a lot. 640 00:27:26,945 --> 00:27:29,205 - So what would you say, I think we've all had one-to-ones, 641 00:27:29,205 --> 00:27:32,765 or where you meet with your manager, your church leader, 642 00:27:32,765 --> 00:27:34,325 whoever it is, and you can tell 643 00:27:34,325 --> 00:27:35,965 that they're maybe a little awkward, 644 00:27:35,965 --> 00:27:38,525 they're not very comfortable doing this and mm-hmm. 645 00:27:38,565 --> 00:27:39,685 , you know, they're, they're asking maybe 646 00:27:39,685 --> 00:27:43,085 strange questions and, and overall it wasn't good. 647 00:27:43,105 --> 00:27:45,045 So from like the interviewee, uh, 648 00:27:45,105 --> 00:27:47,045 or the other side of the other chair. 649 00:27:47,045 --> 00:27:50,125 Yeah. Like what can we do to make it better 650 00:27:50,185 --> 00:27:51,645 for our manager or church leader? 651 00:27:51,715 --> 00:27:53,325 - Yeah. That's such a good question. 652 00:27:53,325 --> 00:27:54,445 Thank Yeah, that's great. 653 00:27:54,865 --> 00:27:56,485 So I do get into that in the book 654 00:27:56,485 --> 00:27:58,365 because I think that's intriguing. 655 00:27:58,825 --> 00:28:01,605 And when we think about a one-on-one meeting, it, 656 00:28:01,865 --> 00:28:04,605 we can think of it as a dance of sorts. 657 00:28:04,785 --> 00:28:06,765 And it does take two to tango. Yeah. 658 00:28:07,105 --> 00:28:11,005 And so while the manager contain, you know, has majority 659 00:28:11,005 --> 00:28:14,765 of the responsibilities, the direct can do certain things 660 00:28:14,905 --> 00:28:17,405 to increase the chances of these things working. 661 00:28:18,265 --> 00:28:20,045 And let me just highlight a few. 662 00:28:20,625 --> 00:28:23,525 And in the book I get into 10, 10 critical behaviors. 663 00:28:23,605 --> 00:28:28,045 I won't do all those, but one is you 664 00:28:28,705 --> 00:28:31,765 as an employee can't get your needs met 665 00:28:32,385 --> 00:28:34,125 unless you know what your needs are. 666 00:28:34,865 --> 00:28:37,405 You can't get what you want unless you know what you want. 667 00:28:37,945 --> 00:28:40,885 It sounds silly, but it's actually pretty profound 668 00:28:41,275 --> 00:28:44,005 because people often don't give it the deep thought. 669 00:28:44,545 --> 00:28:47,245 And so before the one-on-one, you really need to identify 670 00:28:47,355 --> 00:28:50,045 what are the key things you need from that meeting. 671 00:28:50,625 --> 00:28:53,405 And by doing so, you're ready and prepared to share. 672 00:28:53,405 --> 00:28:56,485 And if the manager doesn't bring them up, you can pose it 673 00:28:56,485 --> 00:28:58,485 as questions or, or bring it up yourself. 674 00:28:58,505 --> 00:29:03,325 So that's one thing, prepare yourself. Two is engage. 675 00:29:04,185 --> 00:29:06,205 And don't hesitate to ask for help, 676 00:29:06,585 --> 00:29:07,725 but do it constructively. 677 00:29:07,955 --> 00:29:09,965 There's two general ways of asking for help. 678 00:29:09,995 --> 00:29:13,765 There's a constructive approach and a, a dependent approach. 679 00:29:14,165 --> 00:29:16,285 Dependent approaches are where we basically just ask someone 680 00:29:16,285 --> 00:29:17,405 else to solve our problem. 681 00:29:18,275 --> 00:29:19,725 That doesn't help us long term. 682 00:29:20,225 --> 00:29:23,285 So what we wanna do is ask for constructive help. 683 00:29:23,285 --> 00:29:25,445 We can say, listen, I'm thinking about trying X. 684 00:29:25,995 --> 00:29:27,885 What are your thoughts? Do you think that could be helpful? 685 00:29:28,065 --> 00:29:29,125 Or anything I'm missing? 686 00:29:30,145 --> 00:29:32,485 Or how, what are your ideas on maybe 687 00:29:33,065 --> 00:29:35,205 things I should consider as I, you know, 688 00:29:35,205 --> 00:29:36,725 figure out a potential path? 689 00:29:36,935 --> 00:29:39,725 Right? So those are more constructive ways of asking help. 690 00:29:40,115 --> 00:29:44,045 Another thing, and it goes so well to your comment 691 00:29:44,195 --> 00:29:49,005 that you made before this, which is managers in many ways, 692 00:29:49,225 --> 00:29:51,765 humans in many ways are unprepared 693 00:29:51,765 --> 00:29:52,845 to have these conversations. 694 00:29:53,705 --> 00:29:55,725 We don't necessarily do a great job 695 00:29:55,725 --> 00:29:57,005 taking an interest in others. 696 00:29:58,625 --> 00:30:02,045 We just don't. Humans tend to be self-oriented. Yeah. 697 00:30:02,625 --> 00:30:05,805 And we need to battle that and we need to keep working at it 698 00:30:05,825 --> 00:30:07,325 and reminding ourselves of it. 699 00:30:08,145 --> 00:30:10,285 And so when that manager's in that meeting, 700 00:30:11,035 --> 00:30:14,805 when they engage in behaviors that are very other focused, 701 00:30:15,305 --> 00:30:16,725 we wanna reinforce it. 702 00:30:17,505 --> 00:30:20,445 So when your manager says, how can I help or support you? 703 00:30:21,025 --> 00:30:23,685 Really what should come out of your mouth first is, 704 00:30:23,815 --> 00:30:26,925 thank you so much, I so appreciate that. 705 00:30:27,375 --> 00:30:29,645 Right. So we can look for these opportunities 706 00:30:29,985 --> 00:30:32,645 to catch the manager doing things right. 707 00:30:33,505 --> 00:30:37,805 And this just allows these one-on-ones to, you know, 708 00:30:37,805 --> 00:30:39,605 keep improving over time. 709 00:30:40,065 --> 00:30:41,925 So those are some examples. 710 00:30:41,985 --> 00:30:44,285 But again, I got 10, I got 10 for 711 00:30:44,285 --> 00:30:45,285 - You. 712 00:30:45,285 --> 00:30:46,685 You, you teased as well. That's great. Alright. Got it. 713 00:30:46,685 --> 00:30:48,965 And so it would be appropriate in the this one-to-one 714 00:30:48,965 --> 00:30:51,205 setting to kind of just ask for feedback. 715 00:30:51,205 --> 00:30:53,445 Like, how am I doing as the manager, as the leader, 716 00:30:53,505 --> 00:30:54,605 you know, what, what are you seeing? 717 00:30:54,665 --> 00:30:56,045 Is that that appropriate to do? 718 00:30:56,425 --> 00:30:58,645 - It is over time. Okay. I wouldn't start there. 719 00:30:58,925 --> 00:31:00,205 I think we need to build trust 720 00:31:00,625 --> 00:31:03,605 and not confuse the employee that this is for them. 721 00:31:04,265 --> 00:31:06,605 But I do think that once you create that trust, 722 00:31:06,625 --> 00:31:08,805 the manager can say, you know, I'm trying 723 00:31:08,865 --> 00:31:11,485 to do an effective job bringing the team together 724 00:31:12,065 --> 00:31:16,205 and, you know, creating a sense of, we, what's your sense? 725 00:31:16,385 --> 00:31:18,885 Is this coming together? Do you have any feedback for me? 726 00:31:19,625 --> 00:31:23,005 I'm comfortable with that over time because indirectly, 727 00:31:23,345 --> 00:31:26,045 or maybe directly, it actually helps the employee, right? 728 00:31:26,045 --> 00:31:27,205 So if the manager gets feedback 729 00:31:27,205 --> 00:31:28,925 and makes changes, it helps the employee. 730 00:31:29,625 --> 00:31:33,845 So I do like the idea that over time the manager can look 731 00:31:33,845 --> 00:31:35,725 for some opportunities to gather feedback. 732 00:31:36,105 --> 00:31:37,645 But that does take a little time. 733 00:31:38,025 --> 00:31:40,805 You have to have a good foundation to do so. Yeah. 734 00:31:41,545 --> 00:31:43,965 - Do you recommend, like as you're meeting as the manager 735 00:31:43,965 --> 00:31:46,605 or the leader, are you, are they taking notes and obviously 736 00:31:46,805 --> 00:31:49,005 'cause you're gonna meet again and it's so easy to forget, 737 00:31:49,005 --> 00:31:50,285 like, oh, what did we talking about last time? 738 00:31:50,485 --> 00:31:53,965 I mean, do you recommend having some, uh, a continuous file 739 00:31:53,985 --> 00:31:56,085 of the things you've hit on as you're, as you're talking? 740 00:31:56,585 --> 00:31:59,085 - Yes. Uh, definite note taking is important. 741 00:31:59,265 --> 00:32:01,125 And what we found in our research is 742 00:32:01,125 --> 00:32:04,045 that old school note taking where a manager has a piece 743 00:32:04,045 --> 00:32:05,725 of paper and a pen, kind of like what you're doing 744 00:32:05,945 --> 00:32:09,685 during our conversation was just evaluated 745 00:32:10,225 --> 00:32:11,445 in a really positive way. 746 00:32:11,795 --> 00:32:12,805 They just see that person 747 00:32:12,865 --> 00:32:15,085 as much more engaged in the conversation when 748 00:32:15,085 --> 00:32:16,285 that person's taking notes. 749 00:32:16,905 --> 00:32:18,165 The notes are really important. 750 00:32:18,825 --> 00:32:22,725 And there's some interesting applications of those notes. 751 00:32:23,225 --> 00:32:26,725 So first of all, those notes become the story 752 00:32:27,305 --> 00:32:29,005 of the employee, right? 753 00:32:29,005 --> 00:32:30,645 When you're doing these things regularly, 754 00:32:30,655 --> 00:32:32,245 those notes really represent 755 00:32:32,245 --> 00:32:33,765 that employee's journey and story. 756 00:32:34,425 --> 00:32:36,245 And therefore, when you, when it comes 757 00:32:36,245 --> 00:32:37,565 to performance appraisal time, 758 00:32:38,135 --> 00:32:40,295 those things all can feed into it. 759 00:32:40,875 --> 00:32:44,335 And so you're not just plagued by a recency effect, right? 760 00:32:44,355 --> 00:32:46,335 You have the story of that person. 761 00:32:46,885 --> 00:32:50,215 Furthermore, I've even known some managers that will 762 00:32:51,005 --> 00:32:55,775 take their notes and actually throw it into chat GPT 763 00:32:56,235 --> 00:32:58,495 and identify themes over time. 764 00:32:59,195 --> 00:33:02,295 And that's a very easy task for AI to play with. 765 00:33:02,835 --> 00:33:04,295 So there's a lot of different things 766 00:33:04,325 --> 00:33:05,855 that those notes could be used for, 767 00:33:06,195 --> 00:33:08,495 but the notes do communicate engagement 768 00:33:08,675 --> 00:33:10,775 and that documentation can be very, 769 00:33:10,775 --> 00:33:12,335 very helpful. Mm-Hmm, . Yeah. 770 00:33:12,715 --> 00:33:15,255 - Really good. Before we wrap up, I want to ask, uh, 771 00:33:15,255 --> 00:33:16,935 you know, especially applicable 772 00:33:16,935 --> 00:33:18,215 to our audience with, uh, yeah. 773 00:33:18,635 --> 00:33:21,055 In the home, like, was, has your research shown anything 774 00:33:21,055 --> 00:33:23,455 as about as far as one-to-one interviews with our children, 775 00:33:23,565 --> 00:33:24,775 with our spouse, or I love it. 776 00:33:24,775 --> 00:33:25,815 What, what comes to mind? Love it. 777 00:33:26,275 --> 00:33:29,375 - Yes. Yes. This is a meeting type 778 00:33:29,685 --> 00:33:33,055 that you can bring into the home, namely having 779 00:33:33,625 --> 00:33:35,895 one-on-one meetings with your children. 780 00:33:36,395 --> 00:33:39,455 Now, I'm not talking about any kind of rigorous rigid 781 00:33:39,975 --> 00:33:42,015 calendar holds where you have 782 00:33:42,015 --> 00:33:44,415 to contact your kids' administrative assistant 783 00:33:44,415 --> 00:33:45,495 to coordinate . 784 00:33:45,495 --> 00:33:46,735 We're not talking that. Yeah. 785 00:33:47,115 --> 00:33:48,975 But this notion of being intentional 786 00:33:49,285 --> 00:33:53,335 that a parent is finding time on a regular basis 787 00:33:53,995 --> 00:33:58,015 to engage with their child on their terms, not your terms. 788 00:33:58,395 --> 00:34:00,415 Not about asking them to unload the dishwasher. 789 00:34:00,795 --> 00:34:03,695 Not a about asking them their grade on their last math test, 790 00:34:04,155 --> 00:34:05,535 but it's just checking in 791 00:34:05,535 --> 00:34:07,735 with their child in a real genuine way. 792 00:34:08,195 --> 00:34:10,295 You know, what's top of mind? What are you struggling with? 793 00:34:10,395 --> 00:34:11,775 What's good for you right now? 794 00:34:11,795 --> 00:34:13,495 What's, what's hard for you right now? 795 00:34:13,795 --> 00:34:15,855 How can I help him be supportive to you? 796 00:34:16,395 --> 00:34:18,775 You know, what did you think of this career thing 797 00:34:18,775 --> 00:34:20,815 that you had mentioned, you know, last, 798 00:34:21,005 --> 00:34:22,335 last week when we were chatting? 799 00:34:23,075 --> 00:34:26,855 So finding these opportunities where you sincerely 800 00:34:26,995 --> 00:34:30,455 and deeply take an interest in your child. 801 00:34:31,005 --> 00:34:33,455 Because sadly, we often don't. 802 00:34:33,835 --> 00:34:37,135 We are moving too fast and we're surrounded by distractions. 803 00:34:37,995 --> 00:34:39,455 So we do have to be intentional. 804 00:34:40,155 --> 00:34:42,815 And when I shared this insight 805 00:34:42,885 --> 00:34:45,015 with developmental psychologists 806 00:34:45,035 --> 00:34:47,215 and clinical psychologists, you know, 807 00:34:47,215 --> 00:34:49,455 their reaction is this is completely aligned 808 00:34:49,455 --> 00:34:53,615 with everything we know in psychology that, you know, 809 00:34:53,615 --> 00:34:55,175 this is what's missing in a lot 810 00:34:55,175 --> 00:34:57,095 of parent-child relationships. 811 00:34:57,755 --> 00:34:59,855 And again, parents don't even realize it 812 00:34:59,855 --> 00:35:02,415 because they might be saying as they're listening to this, 813 00:35:02,415 --> 00:35:04,415 oh no, I have lots of conversations with my kids 814 00:35:04,995 --> 00:35:07,495 and I don't doubt it, but I'm talking about a 815 00:35:07,495 --> 00:35:08,655 different type of conversation. 816 00:35:09,355 --> 00:35:12,015 I'm talking about a conversation that's not for you 817 00:35:12,035 --> 00:35:13,855 as a parent, it's for your child. 818 00:35:14,555 --> 00:35:18,935 And that is a meaningful opportunity for connection 819 00:35:19,525 --> 00:35:21,495 with a person, right? 820 00:35:21,495 --> 00:35:23,375 That doesn't have the same power as you, 821 00:35:24,155 --> 00:35:28,135 and it helps build a great foundation of trust 822 00:35:28,515 --> 00:35:30,495 and of love and of intimacy. 823 00:35:31,115 --> 00:35:33,895 And it reflects so well on you as a parent 824 00:35:34,285 --> 00:35:37,685 that you are finding this dedicated space no matter what 825 00:35:38,065 --> 00:35:39,405 to feature your child. 826 00:35:39,715 --> 00:35:42,805 - Yeah. And and I would imagine is the more you have those, 827 00:35:42,915 --> 00:35:45,205 when those, when the big topics come up, right? 828 00:35:45,235 --> 00:35:47,525 Like the, the big conversations you're supposed to have 829 00:35:47,525 --> 00:35:49,685 with your kids are maybe a little bit easier to do 830 00:35:49,825 --> 00:35:51,165 and, and bridge those, those topics. Yeah. 831 00:35:51,165 --> 00:35:54,125 - That's a great observation. And that kind of goes back to 832 00:35:54,145 --> 00:35:57,765 how almost we started our conversation about this difference 833 00:35:57,765 --> 00:36:00,285 between process and events, right? 834 00:36:00,305 --> 00:36:04,045 So if you are having these moments on a consistent basis, 835 00:36:04,475 --> 00:36:08,205 this just becomes part of the relationship as opposed to, 836 00:36:08,745 --> 00:36:10,125 you know, three months later, hey, 837 00:36:10,145 --> 00:36:11,405 we need to sit down and talk. 838 00:36:11,535 --> 00:36:13,565 Right? The kid's gonna be very suspicious 839 00:36:14,305 --> 00:36:15,965 of your motives and intent. 840 00:36:16,105 --> 00:36:17,645 So yeah, they create a foundation 841 00:36:17,645 --> 00:36:20,685 that when tricky issues do come up, it helps. 842 00:36:20,785 --> 00:36:23,285 In fact, I did, I recently did this media interview 843 00:36:23,705 --> 00:36:27,245 and the interviewer was bringing up this notion 844 00:36:27,245 --> 00:36:29,165 of something called the fundamental attribution error. 845 00:36:29,385 --> 00:36:32,645 Oh yeah. Which is basically this idea that as humans, 846 00:36:33,315 --> 00:36:36,085 when we don't have a strong connection with someone, 847 00:36:36,555 --> 00:36:40,485 when they behave in a way that we don't like, we tend 848 00:36:40,485 --> 00:36:43,045 to just make assumptions about who they are 849 00:36:43,065 --> 00:36:44,245 as people, right? 850 00:36:44,245 --> 00:36:45,445 So you're late to this meeting 851 00:36:45,645 --> 00:36:49,405 'cause you are lazy as opposed to a more nuanced explanation 852 00:36:49,405 --> 00:36:50,525 as you're late to the meeting. 853 00:36:50,765 --> 00:36:52,165 'cause oh, something must have come up. 854 00:36:52,525 --> 00:36:53,725 I hope that person's okay. 855 00:36:54,625 --> 00:36:58,485 And that more nuanced explanation, again, is not the default 856 00:36:58,785 --> 00:37:02,205 for humans, but when you have a relationship 857 00:37:02,265 --> 00:37:03,845 and a connection, we tend 858 00:37:03,845 --> 00:37:04,885 to go there more readily 859 00:37:05,385 --> 00:37:07,045 and that's a beautiful thing. Yeah, 860 00:37:07,065 --> 00:37:08,065 - For sure. 861 00:37:08,065 --> 00:37:09,165 Well, any other point, 862 00:37:09,165 --> 00:37:10,725 principle concept you wanna make sure 863 00:37:10,725 --> 00:37:11,765 we cover before we wrap up? 864 00:37:11,765 --> 00:37:12,925 Or do we do a pretty good job? 865 00:37:13,225 --> 00:37:15,605 - Oh my gosh, you always do a great job. Oh, thanks. 866 00:37:15,985 --> 00:37:17,525 And, and in many regards, you know, 867 00:37:17,525 --> 00:37:19,965 you're just demonstrating the types of behaviors 868 00:37:19,965 --> 00:37:22,805 that you want leaders to have in their one-on-ones, right? 869 00:37:22,875 --> 00:37:24,045 When you think about your behavior 870 00:37:24,045 --> 00:37:25,725 during this podcast, right? 871 00:37:25,725 --> 00:37:28,285 You're asking great questions, you're listening, 872 00:37:28,405 --> 00:37:31,565 you're engaging, you're trying to get me to talk and share. 873 00:37:31,565 --> 00:37:33,405 And you're providing some guardrails, 874 00:37:33,785 --> 00:37:35,525 but you're creating a safe environment. 875 00:37:35,865 --> 00:37:38,925 So I think you're an awesome example, an exemplar of 876 00:37:38,925 --> 00:37:40,405 what we're looking for, you know, 877 00:37:40,405 --> 00:37:41,445 from leaders when they do these. 878 00:37:41,625 --> 00:37:43,365 - That's right. The interview's very meta 879 00:37:43,385 --> 00:37:45,085 of one-to-one interview about 880 00:37:45,285 --> 00:37:46,405 a one-to-one meeting. That's right. 881 00:37:46,405 --> 00:37:47,645 - That's great. That's right. Awesome. 882 00:37:48,035 --> 00:37:50,245 - Well, uh, if people wanna learn more about your, 883 00:37:50,355 --> 00:37:52,365 your work, get the book, I mean, where would you send them? 884 00:37:52,475 --> 00:37:56,565 - Yeah, so come to my website, steven rogel.com, 885 00:37:56,825 --> 00:37:58,285 steven rogel.com. 886 00:37:58,525 --> 00:38:00,285 I have a ton of resources on there. 887 00:38:00,885 --> 00:38:03,205 I really tried to make it a repository of information, 888 00:38:03,205 --> 00:38:04,445 so definitely check it out. 889 00:38:04,955 --> 00:38:06,885 There's certainly links to the book 890 00:38:07,505 --> 00:38:10,085 and as you noted, all my royalties go 891 00:38:10,085 --> 00:38:11,325 to the American Cancer Society. 892 00:38:11,385 --> 00:38:14,125 So check out the book to learn more about one-on-ones 893 00:38:14,125 --> 00:38:16,445 and check out the book to help eradicate cancer. 894 00:38:16,675 --> 00:38:18,725 - Awesome. Well, uh, yeah, thanks 895 00:38:18,745 --> 00:38:19,885 for, thanks for coming on again. 896 00:38:19,885 --> 00:38:21,925 And, and is there another project 897 00:38:22,145 --> 00:38:24,125 or book that, uh, will bring us back together 898 00:38:24,145 --> 00:38:25,325 or, uh, do you know what's next? 899 00:38:25,765 --> 00:38:28,365 - I hope so. I'll surprise you. I hope so though. 900 00:38:28,605 --> 00:38:30,525 - I I hope you keep geeking out about meetings. 901 00:38:30,725 --> 00:38:32,685 'cause uh, someone's got to 'cause uh, they, 902 00:38:32,685 --> 00:38:34,925 they're the downfall of our society at times. So 903 00:38:35,405 --> 00:38:36,845 - , - Thank you very much. 904 00:38:36,965 --> 00:38:37,965 I appreciate it. 905 00:38:45,235 --> 00:38:47,845 - That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints podcast. 906 00:38:48,075 --> 00:38:49,205 We'd love to hear from you about 907 00:38:49,205 --> 00:38:50,685 your questions or thoughts or comments. 908 00:38:50,785 --> 00:38:53,485 You can either leave a comment on the, uh, post related 909 00:38:53,625 --> 00:38:56,205 to this episode@leadingsaints.org 910 00:38:56,205 --> 00:38:58,205 or go to leading saints.org/contact 911 00:38:58,625 --> 00:39:00,565 and send us your perspective or questions. 912 00:39:00,825 --> 00:39:01,925 If there's other episodes 913 00:39:01,925 --> 00:39:04,205 or topics you'd like to hear on the Leading Saints podcast, 914 00:39:04,385 --> 00:39:06,125 go to leading saints.org/contact 915 00:39:06,385 --> 00:39:08,045 and share with us the information there. 916 00:39:08,345 --> 00:39:10,165 And we would love for you to share this 917 00:39:10,165 --> 00:39:12,805 with any individual you think this would apply to, 918 00:39:12,805 --> 00:39:14,845 especially maybe individuals in your ward council 919 00:39:14,985 --> 00:39:16,645 or other leaders that you may know 920 00:39:16,785 --> 00:39:18,445 who would really appreciate the 921 00:39:18,445 --> 00:39:19,685 perspectives that we discussed. 922 00:39:20,685 --> 00:39:22,725 Remember, solve the Burden of meetings 923 00:39:22,725 --> 00:39:25,245 by visiting leading saints.org/fourteen 924 00:39:25,305 --> 00:39:27,645 and getting 14 days access to the meetings 925 00:39:27,645 --> 00:39:29,365 with Saints Virtual Library. 926 00:39:39,745 --> 00:39:43,005 - It came as a result of the position of leadership, 927 00:39:43,015 --> 00:39:46,565 which was imposed upon us by the God of Heaven, 928 00:39:46,665 --> 00:39:50,285 who brought forth a restoration of the gospel 929 00:39:50,465 --> 00:39:51,805 of Jesus Christ. 930 00:39:52,505 --> 00:39:56,085 And when the Declaration was made concerning the only 931 00:39:56,185 --> 00:39:57,285 and only true 932 00:39:57,285 --> 00:39:59,845 and living church upon the face of the earth, 933 00:40:00,625 --> 00:40:03,885 we were immediately put in a position of loneliness. 934 00:40:04,065 --> 00:40:07,725 The loneliness of leadership from which we cannot 935 00:40:07,945 --> 00:40:09,365 shrink nor run away. 936 00:40:10,305 --> 00:40:14,165 And to which we must face up with boldness and courage 937 00:40:14,865 --> 00:40:15,485 and ability.