1 00:00:00,095 --> 00:00:00,135 - 2 00:00:04,795 --> 00:00:06,135 - It is finally available. 3 00:00:06,885 --> 00:00:10,015 I've been working on a manuscript for the past four years, 4 00:00:10,475 --> 00:00:13,255 and it is finally a book I can hold in my hands. 5 00:00:13,765 --> 00:00:16,015 It's titled, is God Disappointed In Me 6 00:00:16,615 --> 00:00:18,695 Removing Shame from a Gospel of Grace? 7 00:00:19,365 --> 00:00:21,415 This book has gotten so much attention 8 00:00:21,685 --> 00:00:24,935 that it is already a number one Amazon bestseller. 9 00:00:25,275 --> 00:00:29,095 I'm Beyond amazed in just a few words I wrote, 10 00:00:29,195 --> 00:00:31,855 is God Disappointed in Me for Latter Day Saints 11 00:00:31,995 --> 00:00:34,375 who often feel overwhelmed by the gospel 12 00:00:34,755 --> 00:00:37,575 and who are constantly worrying if they're doing enough. 13 00:00:38,285 --> 00:00:39,695 It's for the Latterday Saint 14 00:00:39,915 --> 00:00:41,495 who have stepped away from the church. 15 00:00:42,045 --> 00:00:44,655 It's for the individuals who appear to be living right 16 00:00:45,035 --> 00:00:47,255 but still can't find peace and happiness. 17 00:00:47,675 --> 00:00:50,815 And frankly, it's for everyone who enjoys listening 18 00:00:50,815 --> 00:00:52,095 to the Leading Saints podcast. 19 00:00:52,715 --> 00:00:54,775 You will love and cherish this book. 20 00:00:55,315 --> 00:00:57,215 Now, warning, you might want 21 00:00:57,215 --> 00:01:00,775 to consider purchasing multiple copies to share one Bishop 22 00:01:00,915 --> 00:01:03,575 who got an advanced copy, read it in one weekend, 23 00:01:03,835 --> 00:01:06,815 and then literally purchased 100 additional copies. 24 00:01:07,515 --> 00:01:08,975 You can order it on Amazon. 25 00:01:09,075 --> 00:01:10,215 The link is in the show notes, 26 00:01:10,435 --> 00:01:13,735 or starting in March, you can find it in your local Costco 27 00:01:13,875 --> 00:01:15,935 in Idaho, Utah, and Arizona. 28 00:01:16,485 --> 00:01:19,855 It's called Is God Disappointed In Me and You Can Order It. 29 00:01:20,075 --> 00:01:20,295 Now, 30 00:01:25,675 --> 00:01:28,375 Before we jump into the content of this episode, I kind 31 00:01:28,375 --> 00:01:30,575 of feel it's important that I introduce myself Now, many 32 00:01:30,575 --> 00:01:32,215 of you have been around a long time. 33 00:01:32,635 --> 00:01:35,015 You're well familiar with My Voice 34 00:01:35,275 --> 00:01:37,735 and the with Leading Saints as an organization, 35 00:01:38,115 --> 00:01:40,455 but if you're not, well, my name is Kurt Frankham 36 00:01:40,455 --> 00:01:42,775 and I am the executive director of Leading Saints 37 00:01:42,835 --> 00:01:43,975 and the podcast host. 38 00:01:44,115 --> 00:01:47,655 Now, leading Saints is a nonprofit organization dedicated, 39 00:01:47,655 --> 00:01:49,975 helping latter day saints be better prepared to lead. 40 00:01:50,275 --> 00:01:51,895 And we do that through well content 41 00:01:52,495 --> 00:01:54,255 creation like this podcast and many other 42 00:01:54,455 --> 00:01:55,895 resources@leadingsaints.org. 43 00:01:56,315 --> 00:01:59,375 And, uh, we don't act like we have all the answers 44 00:01:59,635 --> 00:02:02,575 or, uh, know exactly what a leader should do or not do, 45 00:02:02,635 --> 00:02:05,615 but we like to explore the concepts of leadership, 46 00:02:05,635 --> 00:02:06,735 the science of leadership, 47 00:02:06,735 --> 00:02:08,655 what people are researching about leadership, 48 00:02:08,875 --> 00:02:12,255 and see how we can apply them to a latter day Saint World. 49 00:02:12,595 --> 00:02:13,375 So here we go. 50 00:02:42,785 --> 00:02:44,535 Today we're talking with Kevin Jones. 51 00:02:44,595 --> 00:02:45,895 How are you, Kevin? I'm 52 00:02:46,295 --> 00:02:47,535 - Fabulous. I'm great. How are 53 00:02:47,655 --> 00:02:48,655 - You? 54 00:02:48,655 --> 00:02:50,335 I'm great. Now, people may not realize this. 55 00:02:50,675 --> 00:02:53,095 You have, uh, a podcast called Teaching Restored, 56 00:02:53,115 --> 00:02:55,455 and it was like 15, 20 minutes ago. 57 00:02:55,635 --> 00:02:57,535 You just finished re interviewing me 58 00:02:57,915 --> 00:03:00,565 and said, little do they know the tables are turned here. 59 00:03:00,825 --> 00:03:03,485 Uh, that's right. And now I get to, you know, fire questions 60 00:03:03,515 --> 00:03:04,515 - Done. 61 00:03:04,515 --> 00:03:05,765 You should've them backwards so that, so 62 00:03:05,765 --> 00:03:07,165 that I can torture you afterwards. 63 00:03:07,505 --> 00:03:09,325 - Oh yeah. I see, I see. 64 00:03:09,755 --> 00:03:12,365 Well, uh, and, uh, and we'll link to that episode 65 00:03:12,565 --> 00:03:13,525 'cause I think this, uh, that one 66 00:03:13,525 --> 00:03:14,725 will release before this one. 67 00:03:14,825 --> 00:03:18,005 And so if people want to go listen, uh, to more of me 68 00:03:18,565 --> 00:03:19,605 , you can do that, 69 00:03:20,145 --> 00:03:22,205 but also just get familiar with your podcast maybe. 70 00:03:22,415 --> 00:03:25,445 Where did this idea of, of teaching restored come from? 71 00:03:27,145 --> 00:03:29,005 - So, I'd love, I love teaching overall. 72 00:03:29,405 --> 00:03:32,525 I love, especially the gospel of Jesus Christ. 73 00:03:32,645 --> 00:03:33,805 I love, love, love teaching. 74 00:03:33,905 --> 00:03:38,045 My whole, my whole background is in training organizations. 75 00:03:39,375 --> 00:03:41,675 And so I've done it not only professionally, 76 00:03:41,675 --> 00:03:44,835 but also within, within the church a ton. 77 00:03:45,055 --> 00:03:49,235 Mm-Hmm. . And I've, I'm always trying to make, 78 00:03:49,345 --> 00:03:52,155 improve things, trying to make anything, whatever it is 79 00:03:52,155 --> 00:03:53,715 that I'm touching, just improve it. 80 00:03:54,075 --> 00:03:56,755 I have this, I, I'm a little bit too critical in 81 00:03:56,755 --> 00:03:57,915 that way of everything that I do. 82 00:03:58,055 --> 00:03:59,955 And I want to just improve everything when my 83 00:03:59,955 --> 00:04:01,075 wife sometimes tells me, yeah, you 84 00:04:01,075 --> 00:04:01,875 - Can't stop tinkering. Right, 85 00:04:01,935 --> 00:04:02,935 - That's right. 86 00:04:02,935 --> 00:04:04,675 Right. Slow down. Everything doesn't have to be perfect. 87 00:04:04,825 --> 00:04:05,995 Okay. That's right. . 88 00:04:06,175 --> 00:04:09,675 So I love, I love teaching 89 00:04:09,695 --> 00:04:13,115 and I've want to help others be better teachers overall 90 00:04:13,115 --> 00:04:15,315 because I've seen where we can improve a lot. 91 00:04:15,495 --> 00:04:17,995 So that's where it really came from. 92 00:04:18,185 --> 00:04:19,875 - Yeah. And, and then does this tie 93 00:04:19,905 --> 00:04:21,195 into what you do professionally? 94 00:04:21,215 --> 00:04:24,155 Or maybe do you do teaching or instructing professionally? 95 00:04:25,035 --> 00:04:28,275 - I do. I do. Uh, I've been doing teaching. 96 00:04:28,635 --> 00:04:30,235 I used to do more consult 97 00:04:30,235 --> 00:04:32,995 after I got laid off too many times I decided, 98 00:04:33,015 --> 00:04:34,035 you know, what I'm gonna do on my own. 99 00:04:34,035 --> 00:04:35,155 So I did more consulting 100 00:04:35,615 --> 00:04:38,515 and then the niche that I was in, I was doing 101 00:04:39,145 --> 00:04:40,395 more, uh, some speaking. 102 00:04:40,735 --> 00:04:42,955 And over the years it's kind of flopped 103 00:04:42,955 --> 00:04:46,075 where I'm do more professional speaking and less consulting. 104 00:04:46,815 --> 00:04:50,235 And so that's, uh, I do a lot of, lot of speaking. Nice. 105 00:04:50,515 --> 00:04:53,155 - Awesome. Now, have you had a lot of callings just in, 106 00:04:53,335 --> 00:04:56,115 in your church experience where you've been teaching or, 107 00:04:56,495 --> 00:04:57,495 - Yes. 108 00:04:57,495 --> 00:04:59,555 Yes. Yeah. And I've loved every bit of it. 109 00:04:59,775 --> 00:05:03,115 - That's cool. Now you're in the, uh, is, is it safe 110 00:05:03,115 --> 00:05:05,275 to say Seattle area or how would you frame it? 111 00:05:05,705 --> 00:05:08,555 - Yeah, it's, uh, actually I'm outside of, just outside 112 00:05:08,795 --> 00:05:11,715 of Vancouver, which is just barely north of Portland. 113 00:05:11,895 --> 00:05:14,235 So really we're a suburb of Portland. Gotcha, 114 00:05:14,415 --> 00:05:15,415 - Gotcha. 115 00:05:15,415 --> 00:05:16,715 And you've had some teaching callings, 116 00:05:16,715 --> 00:05:17,835 some you've been elders who president, 117 00:05:17,835 --> 00:05:18,835 you're in a Bishop Burke right now. 118 00:05:18,895 --> 00:05:21,075 But I mean, that's the thing with, with teaching, it's 119 00:05:21,075 --> 00:05:23,235 so easy to talk about teaching in the context of leadership 120 00:05:23,235 --> 00:05:25,475 because a lot of what leaders do is teach. 121 00:05:25,695 --> 00:05:28,315 And so Right. Regardless of where you served, you're always 122 00:05:28,835 --> 00:05:30,915 probably using a lot of these, these tools and, 123 00:05:30,935 --> 00:05:32,835 and tactics that, that you talked about, hopefully. 124 00:05:32,835 --> 00:05:33,915 Yeah. And, 125 00:05:33,975 --> 00:05:36,675 and then, so if people subscribe to teaching restored, 126 00:05:36,865 --> 00:05:39,235 what do they generally, I mean, I know I came on 127 00:05:39,235 --> 00:05:41,155 and talked about some teaching principles from my 128 00:05:41,155 --> 00:05:43,715 perspective, is that generally what you do or on there? 129 00:05:44,385 --> 00:05:48,435 - Yeah. Overall, really we wanted, um, we recognized 130 00:05:48,435 --> 00:05:51,235 that it's not, teaching is not only, you know, a teacher. 131 00:05:51,415 --> 00:05:52,475 I'm a Sunday school teacher. 132 00:05:52,615 --> 00:05:54,955 Oh, I teach the youth our primary. Right, right. 133 00:05:55,175 --> 00:05:58,085 But there's also teaching the gospel as a missionary 134 00:05:58,665 --> 00:06:00,285 or, uh, some of the 135 00:06:00,905 --> 00:06:03,525 off ones like seminary isn't traditionally thought of, 136 00:06:03,525 --> 00:06:04,645 but also as a parent 137 00:06:05,225 --> 00:06:07,325 or just teaching your friend about the gospel. 138 00:06:07,465 --> 00:06:11,005 So we talk about all these different types of teachings, 139 00:06:11,105 --> 00:06:12,165 uh, or how to teach. 140 00:06:12,185 --> 00:06:13,805 So there's, you know, come Follow me 141 00:06:13,825 --> 00:06:15,165 and a whole bunch of other podcasts 142 00:06:15,165 --> 00:06:16,685 where they'd say what to teach. 143 00:06:17,505 --> 00:06:19,165 And Julie and I were focused on, 144 00:06:19,315 --> 00:06:20,645 well, how do you teach that? 145 00:06:20,825 --> 00:06:22,845 Mm-Hmm, , what kind of, what kind 146 00:06:22,845 --> 00:06:24,085 of things should you be thinking of? 147 00:06:24,275 --> 00:06:25,845 What kind of, uh, and, and it, 148 00:06:25,905 --> 00:06:28,605 and it isn't always, here's a tactic you can use, 149 00:06:28,785 --> 00:06:31,005 put everyone in a circle or is Yeah, yeah, yeah. 150 00:06:31,005 --> 00:06:32,405 We do talk about things like that. Yeah. 151 00:06:32,425 --> 00:06:36,525 But also different ways, um, different ways 152 00:06:36,665 --> 00:06:40,805 to help everyone become just more used to 153 00:06:42,235 --> 00:06:43,635 learning is, is another one. 154 00:06:43,635 --> 00:06:46,275 Right? Mm-Hmm. Because we want to help people learn. 155 00:06:47,375 --> 00:06:49,075 If we're gonna teach, there's no point 156 00:06:49,075 --> 00:06:50,115 in teaching if they're not gonna learn. 157 00:06:50,115 --> 00:06:52,955 So also, how do you help them learn at the same time? 158 00:06:52,955 --> 00:06:54,115 Which, it's a subtle 159 00:06:54,115 --> 00:06:55,635 difference, but it's actually a big difference. Yeah. 160 00:06:55,635 --> 00:06:57,235 - That I, I think that's worth, uh, 161 00:06:57,235 --> 00:06:58,315 sort of sitting with there. 162 00:06:58,595 --> 00:07:00,235 'cause it's, it's one thing to teach, or, 163 00:07:00,255 --> 00:07:02,635 and sometimes we, we see teaching as almost this, 164 00:07:02,635 --> 00:07:04,875 this lecture style, and we know we're supposed to avoid it, 165 00:07:05,095 --> 00:07:07,275 but I'm teaching, so I've got my five points 166 00:07:07,335 --> 00:07:09,235 and we'll go through them over the next 45 minutes. 167 00:07:09,335 --> 00:07:13,435 And, but to, to approach it more of like, uh, no, we're, 168 00:07:13,435 --> 00:07:16,035 we want them to learn how to, uh, how 169 00:07:16,035 --> 00:07:19,115 to absorb the information, how to learn rather than just, 170 00:07:19,295 --> 00:07:21,275 you know, fire hosing them with information 171 00:07:21,275 --> 00:07:22,795 and hoping something sticks. Right. 172 00:07:22,885 --> 00:07:24,035 - Right. Yeah. 173 00:07:24,035 --> 00:07:26,915 How many times have we had our kids at the, you know, the 174 00:07:27,495 --> 00:07:29,075 dinner table on Sundays? 175 00:07:29,175 --> 00:07:32,315 And how did you, what did you learn today? Oh, I don't know. 176 00:07:33,605 --> 00:07:35,325 . Okay. . Yeah. 177 00:07:35,475 --> 00:07:37,245 Well, obviously you were taught something, 178 00:07:37,335 --> 00:07:38,485 don't you remember anything? 179 00:07:38,945 --> 00:07:40,885 And, and a lot of times they do learn something great, 180 00:07:40,905 --> 00:07:42,765 and we love those times when they take away 181 00:07:42,765 --> 00:07:45,685 and they just come back and go, oh, that was incredible. 182 00:07:45,825 --> 00:07:46,885 And it changes them. 183 00:07:46,905 --> 00:07:48,005 And that's the kind of stuff 184 00:07:48,005 --> 00:07:50,085 that we wanna help people create are those 185 00:07:50,605 --> 00:07:52,285 changing moments when they teach. Yeah. 186 00:07:52,385 --> 00:07:55,685 - That's powerful. Now, um, as we, so we're, we're gonna go 187 00:07:55,685 --> 00:07:58,805 through some general sort of teaching principles, uh, 188 00:07:59,065 --> 00:08:00,445 to maybe help other teachers out there. 189 00:08:00,445 --> 00:08:01,685 And these will probably be applicable 190 00:08:01,685 --> 00:08:02,805 to whether you're teaching the youth 191 00:08:03,025 --> 00:08:04,365 or you're teaching Sunday school, 192 00:08:04,425 --> 00:08:05,445 you know, adult Sunday school. 193 00:08:05,985 --> 00:08:08,325 Um, and, and is that safe to say? 194 00:08:08,555 --> 00:08:09,765 - Yeah. Oh, absolutely. 195 00:08:09,875 --> 00:08:11,765 - Awesome. Now you've had this emphasis, 196 00:08:11,765 --> 00:08:13,805 and even from the first time we met sort of the, 197 00:08:13,805 --> 00:08:15,605 you've talked about this emphasis on questions 198 00:08:15,605 --> 00:08:17,045 and the power of questions. 199 00:08:17,705 --> 00:08:20,285 Um, where, where's, I mean, where would you introduce us to 200 00:08:20,285 --> 00:08:22,285 that concept of questions in terms 201 00:08:22,285 --> 00:08:23,525 of teaching with questions? 202 00:08:24,505 --> 00:08:27,885 - So I think that a lot of times we focus, 203 00:08:28,795 --> 00:08:30,845 when we ask questions, we almost abuse them 204 00:08:31,155 --> 00:08:33,285 because we'll ask a question 205 00:08:33,545 --> 00:08:35,645 and it's off the top of our head. 206 00:08:35,745 --> 00:08:36,965 We don't think about the questions. 207 00:08:36,985 --> 00:08:38,725 We we're very focused on the content. 208 00:08:39,635 --> 00:08:40,815 And so we have all these quotes, 209 00:08:40,815 --> 00:08:41,375 we have all these 210 00:08:41,575 --> 00:08:42,695 scriptures we're gonna read, and that's great. 211 00:08:42,835 --> 00:08:47,655 But the questions that help us dive into 'em aren't really 212 00:08:49,605 --> 00:08:52,535 used, uh, are aren't really prepared very well. 213 00:08:52,635 --> 00:08:54,295 And so we have these off the cuff questions, 214 00:08:55,385 --> 00:08:58,565 and I've noticed that when we purposefully ask really, 215 00:08:58,565 --> 00:09:03,045 really good questions, then everything changes 216 00:09:03,785 --> 00:09:05,885 or everything I'll say everything can change, right? 217 00:09:06,065 --> 00:09:07,125 Not mm-Hmm. necessarily 218 00:09:07,125 --> 00:09:10,085 that the questions are end all be all by any means. 219 00:09:10,105 --> 00:09:14,665 But questions can make it so it takes a, 220 00:09:14,985 --> 00:09:19,305 a class who may be just sitting there nodding hope, 221 00:09:19,325 --> 00:09:22,505 trying not to look at their cell phones to try 222 00:09:22,505 --> 00:09:26,065 to be, try to be engaged to someone who is leaning forward 223 00:09:26,065 --> 00:09:28,105 and saying, wow, okay, where are we going 224 00:09:28,105 --> 00:09:29,345 with this? How does this work? 225 00:09:29,815 --> 00:09:32,145 - Yeah. And so, uh, and that's an interesting thing. 226 00:09:32,305 --> 00:09:33,825 'cause sometimes I'll be sitting in the class 227 00:09:33,885 --> 00:09:36,425 and the teacher will state a question, right? 228 00:09:36,565 --> 00:09:38,945 Or ask a question and I'll think oof, 229 00:09:39,135 --> 00:09:40,145 like, not a good question. 230 00:09:40,215 --> 00:09:42,385 Like, just 'cause I, that doesn't gimme much to work with. 231 00:09:42,485 --> 00:09:44,745 Or am I just trying to read your mind? 232 00:09:44,805 --> 00:09:47,185 Or like, why are you asking this question or, right. 233 00:09:47,445 --> 00:09:50,425 So I mean, how do we, when we're preparing 234 00:09:50,425 --> 00:09:52,145 and we wanna be very intentional about questions, 235 00:09:52,145 --> 00:09:54,345 like is there a formula we can follow 236 00:09:54,565 --> 00:09:57,185 or how do we know if we have a good question or not? 237 00:09:57,455 --> 00:10:00,665 - Okay. So I've come up with a kind of a, 238 00:10:02,425 --> 00:10:05,725 uh, it, it, it isn't a, a really linear type of thing, 239 00:10:05,725 --> 00:10:08,925 but it parses out questions in different categories. 240 00:10:08,945 --> 00:10:11,485 And I would just want to kind of go over that a little bit 241 00:10:11,485 --> 00:10:13,325 because actually, let me ask you. 242 00:10:13,515 --> 00:10:15,085 Okay. When we think of questions, 243 00:10:16,265 --> 00:10:18,275 what are the two kinds of questions you've heard about? 244 00:10:19,295 --> 00:10:22,955 - Um, maybe like a, a yes or no question, or, okay, yep. 245 00:10:23,155 --> 00:10:25,915 A a question that's maybe more open-ended question. Okay. 246 00:10:25,915 --> 00:10:28,275 - Yeah. So yeah, we, we always hear about the open-ended 247 00:10:28,395 --> 00:10:30,035 questions and the closed-ended questions, right? 248 00:10:30,035 --> 00:10:33,835 Yeah. Yeah. But if you take a question like, so, and, 249 00:10:33,835 --> 00:10:35,235 and we've all all heard, 250 00:10:35,775 --> 00:10:37,315 you should ask open-ended questions. 251 00:10:37,315 --> 00:10:38,355 Right? Right. Yeah. That's because 252 00:10:38,355 --> 00:10:39,435 it's so much better than close, right? 253 00:10:39,655 --> 00:10:41,755 We all hear that. And is that really true? 254 00:10:42,075 --> 00:10:46,035 I I don't think it is. Hmm. I don't treat, I really don't. 255 00:10:46,535 --> 00:10:49,395 So, and even then, when you ask an open-ended question, 256 00:10:49,535 --> 00:10:52,715 if you were to ask a question like, who is lehigh's father? 257 00:10:52,985 --> 00:10:54,315 Well, that's not a yes or no question. 258 00:10:54,315 --> 00:10:59,055 It's an open-ended question compared to when you did this 259 00:10:59,155 --> 00:11:01,615 and you feel the spirit, how has that changed your life? 260 00:11:03,015 --> 00:11:07,085 Those, those are two completely different questions. Yeah. 261 00:11:07,305 --> 00:11:08,645 But they're still open-ended. 262 00:11:09,155 --> 00:11:11,005 - Yeah. Yeah. - Yeah. So they're not all, 263 00:11:11,305 --> 00:11:13,045 all open-ended questions aren't the same. 264 00:11:13,685 --> 00:11:14,805 - Hmm. And, 265 00:11:14,865 --> 00:11:16,405 and so don't be afraid of the, 266 00:11:17,105 --> 00:11:19,445 the close ended questions or whatever we call them. 267 00:11:19,695 --> 00:11:20,725 - Right, right. Yeah. Okay. 268 00:11:20,725 --> 00:11:23,445 So let me kind of just real quickly walk you through these 269 00:11:24,035 --> 00:11:25,485 different types of questions. 270 00:11:25,705 --> 00:11:29,845 The first one is more closely linked to the closed ended, 271 00:11:29,985 --> 00:11:31,085 and that's called the binary. 272 00:11:31,835 --> 00:11:34,405 Okay. Binary meaning one or the other. Mm-Hmm. 273 00:11:34,445 --> 00:11:36,045 typically it is, you know, you can think of it 274 00:11:36,045 --> 00:11:39,725 as a yes or no question, but you can also think of it as hot 275 00:11:39,725 --> 00:11:42,925 or cold up or down heaven or hell kind of things. 276 00:11:43,025 --> 00:11:46,925 Mm-Hmm. where it's, it's one or the other. 277 00:11:47,025 --> 00:11:50,165 Now, a lot of people might think that this, these kind 278 00:11:50,165 --> 00:11:52,885 of questions are really not powerful, 279 00:11:53,005 --> 00:11:54,165 but I'll give you a quick example. 280 00:11:54,545 --> 00:11:56,365 Um, my wife 281 00:11:56,365 --> 00:12:00,845 and I went on a, a tour, uh, to Germany 282 00:12:01,195 --> 00:12:03,805 with a tour group that Hank Smith led. 283 00:12:04,385 --> 00:12:06,445 Oh, cool. And, uh, this was a couple years ago 284 00:12:06,445 --> 00:12:08,845 and met so many great, it was a, it was a fabulous time. 285 00:12:09,385 --> 00:12:10,645 And while we were there, he would, 286 00:12:10,905 --> 00:12:13,925 he would start the day off in the, in this tour bus, 287 00:12:14,385 --> 00:12:17,325 and he would, uh, do a little devotional. 288 00:12:17,625 --> 00:12:21,285 And one time he was talking about how his friends 289 00:12:21,825 --> 00:12:24,405 or someone he would, he was talking to would every now 290 00:12:24,405 --> 00:12:27,045 and then say something along the lines of, well, you know, 291 00:12:27,045 --> 00:12:30,645 the flood, I don't know, the flood could actually happen. 292 00:12:31,165 --> 00:12:32,925 , you know, maybe it's a local thing 293 00:12:33,585 --> 00:12:37,005 and not a, not a global thing, or Jonah 294 00:12:37,005 --> 00:12:39,805 and the whale, seriously in the belly. 295 00:12:40,205 --> 00:12:43,645 I, I don't think that could actually be possible uhhuh. 296 00:12:44,105 --> 00:12:46,805 And so, and he would, he answered back with something along 297 00:12:47,145 --> 00:12:51,325 of, along the lines of, what about the resurrection? 298 00:12:51,325 --> 00:12:54,885 Do you believe in the resurrection where he died 299 00:12:55,625 --> 00:12:56,725 and came back to life? 300 00:12:57,605 --> 00:13:00,065 And that we all can do that. Well. 301 00:13:00,495 --> 00:13:01,865 Well, well, yeah, of course. 302 00:13:02,175 --> 00:13:04,385 Well, if he can do the most important thing, 303 00:13:05,375 --> 00:13:07,235 do you think he can do those things 304 00:13:07,235 --> 00:13:10,155 that you might think are not possible as well? 305 00:13:12,225 --> 00:13:14,395 Yeah. Yeah. I, I guess so. Right. Yeah. 306 00:13:14,395 --> 00:13:15,715 So that's a yes or no question 307 00:13:16,225 --> 00:13:17,595 that could be really powerful. 308 00:13:18,155 --> 00:13:20,075 - Hmm. I see. Yeah. Yeah. 309 00:13:20,105 --> 00:13:21,315 Because it is really the, 310 00:13:21,315 --> 00:13:22,715 the context you've set it up in right. 311 00:13:22,715 --> 00:13:23,795 That you're sort of guiding them 312 00:13:23,795 --> 00:13:25,195 to this question more thoughtfully. 313 00:13:25,605 --> 00:13:27,355 - Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. 314 00:13:27,435 --> 00:13:29,595 And there are really a couple ways to use binary que well, 315 00:13:29,595 --> 00:13:32,315 more than a couple, but a couple that I'll mention. 316 00:13:32,935 --> 00:13:34,595 One is more of a guide uhhuh. 317 00:13:34,655 --> 00:13:37,115 Um, there, if you think about a lawyer 318 00:13:38,525 --> 00:13:41,375 interrogating someone on the stand, they lead them often 319 00:13:41,375 --> 00:13:44,295 through a series of binary questions 320 00:13:44,515 --> 00:13:45,815 to get to a certain point. 321 00:13:46,195 --> 00:13:47,655 Now, you can do the same thing in a class. 322 00:13:47,995 --> 00:13:49,935 Do you believe this? Well, then do you believe this? 323 00:13:49,935 --> 00:13:51,415 Well, then what do you think about this then? 324 00:13:51,515 --> 00:13:53,695 And, and lead them. And then they get to this final point 325 00:13:53,715 --> 00:13:56,925 of, oh, alright, if A equals B then 326 00:13:57,025 --> 00:14:00,265 and B equals C, then a must equals C kind of thing. 327 00:14:00,495 --> 00:14:02,625 Yeah. And you can lead them through that. Yeah. 328 00:14:03,015 --> 00:14:04,225 - Yeah. So there's this, I mean, 329 00:14:04,225 --> 00:14:05,705 there's this framing of it, right? 330 00:14:05,705 --> 00:14:06,825 Again, that context of, 331 00:14:07,255 --> 00:14:10,185 because in order to teach in a certain, uh, a certain topic, 332 00:14:10,205 --> 00:14:13,625 you have to invite them into that context or that framing, 333 00:14:14,165 --> 00:14:16,705 or else, you know, if, if they don't have the foundation of 334 00:14:16,705 --> 00:14:19,265 that framing, or if they disagree with the foundation of 335 00:14:19,265 --> 00:14:20,385 that framing, then they're not, 336 00:14:20,815 --> 00:14:22,105 that those questions won't be helpful 337 00:14:22,125 --> 00:14:24,265 or they're not gonna learn anything. Right? 338 00:14:24,445 --> 00:14:26,585 - Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. 339 00:14:26,765 --> 00:14:28,665 And you can also use it in an anchor way. 340 00:14:28,685 --> 00:14:31,145 So we'll get into these other question types of questions, 341 00:14:31,145 --> 00:14:33,665 but you can do these deeper questions 342 00:14:33,805 --> 00:14:35,825 and then end it with a binary question 343 00:14:35,925 --> 00:14:37,545 of, okay, how do you feel about this? 344 00:14:37,545 --> 00:14:38,545 How do you feel about this? And someone 345 00:14:38,545 --> 00:14:39,625 kind of bears their testimony. 346 00:14:39,625 --> 00:14:43,785 And then you say, so then what about this? 347 00:14:44,365 --> 00:14:47,225 Do you believe this? Then the answer is, well, yes. 348 00:14:47,485 --> 00:14:50,425 And it kind of finishes almost like a missionary lesson. 349 00:14:51,825 --> 00:14:54,045 We teach all these things, we teach all these principles, 350 00:14:54,475 --> 00:14:58,555 feel the spirit, and then will you be baptized? 351 00:14:59,195 --> 00:15:03,805 Hmm. And yes, it, it kind of anchors the whole, 352 00:15:04,185 --> 00:15:06,285 the whole discussion in, in that one. 353 00:15:06,465 --> 00:15:08,405 So by close, these close ended 354 00:15:08,425 --> 00:15:10,765 or binary questions can be really powerful. 355 00:15:11,115 --> 00:15:13,125 - Yeah. Yeah. That ain almost like 356 00:15:13,125 --> 00:15:14,325 we've arrived somewhere, right? 357 00:15:14,335 --> 00:15:17,405 We're, we're all here. Yes, yes, yes. We are all here in. 358 00:15:17,535 --> 00:15:20,245 Right. And what's next? Right. Right. So that's cool. 359 00:15:20,665 --> 00:15:23,125 Uh, what else about as far as the importance of questions 360 00:15:23,125 --> 00:15:25,045 that, is there any more of this? 361 00:15:25,185 --> 00:15:26,485 Uh, yeah, this rubric? 362 00:15:27,075 --> 00:15:30,645 - Yeah. So there's, there's, next comes factual questions, 363 00:15:30,745 --> 00:15:33,205 and factual just means that there is an answer. 364 00:15:33,755 --> 00:15:36,445 Okay. There is a correct answer, I'll say, Mm-Hmm. 365 00:15:36,485 --> 00:15:41,435 . And it's, uh, for example, 366 00:15:41,815 --> 00:15:44,075 um, you may ask, well, let me look at these. 367 00:15:44,105 --> 00:15:45,395 What year did Joseph Smith have the 368 00:15:45,395 --> 00:15:46,515 first vision? Mm-Hmm. 369 00:15:47,355 --> 00:15:48,355 - 1820. 370 00:15:48,355 --> 00:15:49,635 - Right. There we go. We know the answer. Right. 371 00:15:49,855 --> 00:15:51,555 And these are the kind of questions that you don't, 372 00:15:51,555 --> 00:15:53,275 almost don't want to hear in a classroom 373 00:15:53,275 --> 00:15:55,515 because you don't want to answer 'em. 374 00:15:55,635 --> 00:15:57,235 'cause they're so basic. Yeah. 375 00:15:57,575 --> 00:15:59,235 - Or, or you'll hear the person behind you sort 376 00:15:59,235 --> 00:16:00,715 of whisper it, you know, if you hear that right. 377 00:16:00,745 --> 00:16:02,555 It's like, this is so easy, I'm not even gonna 378 00:16:03,405 --> 00:16:05,715 raise my hand to answer this. Right. . 379 00:16:05,885 --> 00:16:08,715 - Right, right, right. Yep. Yep. Don't want to, but you do. 380 00:16:08,785 --> 00:16:10,755 What is the law of tithing? The law of tithing? 381 00:16:12,265 --> 00:16:14,925 You know, I, I can say what, what has been written about it 382 00:16:14,945 --> 00:16:17,625 and what the Lord says, and that's it. Right? 383 00:16:17,625 --> 00:16:18,625 - Yeah. Factual, uhhuh . 384 00:16:18,675 --> 00:16:20,305 - Right, right. But they, again, 385 00:16:20,305 --> 00:16:21,785 they can be very, very powerful. 386 00:16:23,085 --> 00:16:25,945 So, um, okay. 387 00:16:25,945 --> 00:16:27,905 This is this, oh, this is such a great example. 388 00:16:27,925 --> 00:16:29,705 And I, I love this. And, 389 00:16:29,725 --> 00:16:31,545 and I don't know whether this is true or not, 390 00:16:31,725 --> 00:16:32,985 but we're just gonna go with it. 391 00:16:33,405 --> 00:16:36,385 Um, I heard that our stake president uses this question 392 00:16:36,635 --> 00:16:38,265 again, whether he does or not, I haven't asked him, 393 00:16:38,325 --> 00:16:41,385 but I i, if you think 394 00:16:41,385 --> 00:16:44,545 of a stake president interviewing a potential missionary, 395 00:16:44,615 --> 00:16:47,415 prospective missionary, they could ask, 396 00:16:48,105 --> 00:16:50,035 have you viewed pornography uhhuh ? 397 00:16:50,035 --> 00:16:52,635 That is a binary question, yes or no. Oh, okay. 398 00:16:52,895 --> 00:16:54,355 No, you haven't. Good, let's move on. 399 00:16:55,275 --> 00:16:57,315 - . - But you could also ask, 400 00:16:57,375 --> 00:16:58,835 the state president could also ask, 401 00:16:59,145 --> 00:17:01,755 when was the last time you viewed pornography? 402 00:17:02,175 --> 00:17:07,165 - Mm-Hmm. - Because it is so pervasive 403 00:17:07,165 --> 00:17:11,885 that it's hard not to ever for pretty much anyone Yeah. 404 00:17:11,885 --> 00:17:15,325 Not to. And then you can have a discussion around, 405 00:17:15,715 --> 00:17:16,725 well, what is that exactly? 406 00:17:17,275 --> 00:17:19,685 Yeah. And what happens if accidentally or what are, 407 00:17:19,825 --> 00:17:22,285 or are you, or is it happening? 408 00:17:22,345 --> 00:17:24,405 And you're choosing that. Yeah. 409 00:17:24,425 --> 00:17:26,005 But it sets up, sets it up 410 00:17:26,025 --> 00:17:28,605 for a discussion in that perspective. Right. 411 00:17:28,635 --> 00:17:31,285 - Yeah. And, and it really removes the shame of it. Right? 412 00:17:31,355 --> 00:17:33,645 Yeah. Let's assume, I mean, 2024, come on. 413 00:17:33,675 --> 00:17:35,525 Like, you stumbled across something, 414 00:17:35,555 --> 00:17:37,605 whether it's you stumbled across something Yes. 415 00:17:37,605 --> 00:17:40,605 Or you've had a habit with it. Uh, let's just talk about it. 416 00:17:40,705 --> 00:17:42,205 So when was the last, you know, 417 00:17:42,225 --> 00:17:43,405 or what, you know, 418 00:17:43,405 --> 00:17:44,805 when was the last time you saw pornography? 419 00:17:44,825 --> 00:17:46,365 And, and let's have a discussion. Right. 420 00:17:46,625 --> 00:17:49,365 If you asked me that in 1991, if I was an adult back then, 421 00:17:49,465 --> 00:17:51,245 I'd sort of be offended, like, wait, wait a minute, 422 00:17:51,585 --> 00:17:53,565 who says I've seen pornography ? You 423 00:17:53,585 --> 00:17:55,645 - Assume too much - . That's right. Yep. 424 00:17:56,075 --> 00:18:00,245 - Awesome. Yeah. So factuals are pretty much yes or no. 425 00:18:00,245 --> 00:18:01,725 Now, at the same time, I could ask you, 426 00:18:01,725 --> 00:18:02,765 who is your scripture hero? 427 00:18:03,405 --> 00:18:05,345 Mm-Hmm. , that answer's gonna 428 00:18:05,345 --> 00:18:06,385 be different for you than for me. 429 00:18:06,885 --> 00:18:10,345 And so that, uh, it's still a factual question. 430 00:18:10,725 --> 00:18:14,555 Now the explanatory question is what it kind of sounds like 431 00:18:14,555 --> 00:18:16,715 where you have to ask a question 432 00:18:16,815 --> 00:18:19,675 or where you ask a question, you have to give an explanation 433 00:18:19,895 --> 00:18:21,595 for whatever it is. 434 00:18:22,065 --> 00:18:26,525 Like, why do you think Peter denied Jesus three times? Hmm. 435 00:18:26,755 --> 00:18:28,765 Okay. Well, I'm gonna dive into it. 436 00:18:29,065 --> 00:18:30,925 And it's still at the head level though. 437 00:18:31,345 --> 00:18:34,805 You're still giving what you know, or what you've heard 438 00:18:34,985 --> 00:18:36,765 or what you think, or your opinion, 439 00:18:37,275 --> 00:18:38,645 it's getting a little bit deeper 440 00:18:39,185 --> 00:18:43,485 and helping someone dive into more really thought 441 00:18:43,765 --> 00:18:46,045 provoking questions and answers. 442 00:18:47,215 --> 00:18:50,395 Um, but it's a far cry than just a 443 00:18:50,395 --> 00:18:52,335 factual, you know, . 444 00:18:52,445 --> 00:18:55,335 Yeah. In in what book do we learn about, uh, 445 00:18:55,395 --> 00:18:57,175 the resurrection of Jesus Christ 446 00:18:57,205 --> 00:18:58,415 kind of thing. Right? Yeah. 447 00:18:59,165 --> 00:19:01,975 - Yeah. So, so we've talked about binary questions, 448 00:19:02,285 --> 00:19:03,335 factual questions. 449 00:19:03,335 --> 00:19:04,495 Was there another one in, in there 450 00:19:04,765 --> 00:19:05,765 - Factual? 451 00:19:05,765 --> 00:19:06,775 Then this is the explanatory. 452 00:19:07,165 --> 00:19:10,215 - Okay. - And the, so the binary 453 00:19:10,315 --> 00:19:12,015 and the factual questions when we teach, 454 00:19:12,125 --> 00:19:13,375 they're easy to ask. 455 00:19:13,635 --> 00:19:14,775 Mm-Hmm. . And so we just do 456 00:19:14,775 --> 00:19:17,175 that explanatory gets a little bit more difficult. 457 00:19:17,235 --> 00:19:19,055 You almost have to plan those out sometimes. 458 00:19:20,075 --> 00:19:23,175 And so they're, they're a little bit more impactful. 459 00:19:23,475 --> 00:19:24,775 But the, I would say 460 00:19:24,775 --> 00:19:28,055 that the most impactful are called introspective questions. 461 00:19:29,025 --> 00:19:31,365 And the introspective questions make us 462 00:19:31,785 --> 00:19:33,365 answer from our heart. 463 00:19:33,365 --> 00:19:37,125 Mm-Hmm. They make us really dive into how we feel about, 464 00:19:38,595 --> 00:19:41,655 uh, way, way past our head. 465 00:19:41,755 --> 00:19:44,135 And, and really almost, 466 00:19:44,395 --> 00:19:46,855 and a lot of times it will actually happen so 467 00:19:46,855 --> 00:19:49,255 that when you answer an introspective question, 468 00:19:49,385 --> 00:19:50,815 we're almost bearing our testimony. 469 00:19:51,045 --> 00:19:53,825 - Yeah. - We're to that level of 470 00:19:55,015 --> 00:19:56,355 how do you feel about this? 471 00:19:56,495 --> 00:19:59,315 How do you feel? What do you think about God's love for you? 472 00:20:00,585 --> 00:20:03,355 Then we can answer those kind of questions. 473 00:20:03,375 --> 00:20:07,915 And it deep in deepens not only when we answer it, 474 00:20:07,935 --> 00:20:11,035 we bear our testimony, but it also deepens our conviction of 475 00:20:11,035 --> 00:20:13,395 that because we are the ones who are saying it. Mm-Hmm. 476 00:20:13,435 --> 00:20:14,755 - , - We're, it's, 477 00:20:14,755 --> 00:20:18,235 it's not the teacher telling us we're the ones who all, all 478 00:20:18,235 --> 00:20:19,315 of a sudden are saying this, and 479 00:20:19,315 --> 00:20:20,515 it's coming out of our mouths. 480 00:20:20,895 --> 00:20:22,715 And so it solidifies even more 481 00:20:22,775 --> 00:20:24,195 our testimony in that way. Mm-Hmm. 482 00:20:24,505 --> 00:20:25,595 - Yeah. Um, 483 00:20:26,335 --> 00:20:29,435 and this is one thing, actually, this is a, a perspective 484 00:20:29,435 --> 00:20:31,275 that Hank Smith, uh, taught me in, 485 00:20:31,275 --> 00:20:33,675 in when I interviewed him, is that he said, 486 00:20:33,675 --> 00:20:34,875 he talked about building this, 487 00:20:35,315 --> 00:20:37,395 building the silence into your question. 488 00:20:38,015 --> 00:20:41,715 Um, because sometimes we ask this introspective question 489 00:20:42,215 --> 00:20:45,395 and it's like, we'll ask it, we'll pause maybe five seconds, 490 00:20:45,615 --> 00:20:46,515 and it's like, oh, nobody 491 00:20:46,515 --> 00:20:47,740 wants to answer, answer, like, move in. 492 00:20:47,905 --> 00:20:50,125 No. Like, you have, like, I gotta sit with that 493 00:20:50,125 --> 00:20:52,285 for a minute, you know, like, gimme a second to process 494 00:20:52,785 --> 00:20:53,845 and then I'll give you an answer. 495 00:20:53,945 --> 00:20:57,365 But, uh, so I mean, you almost have to realize you have 496 00:20:57,365 --> 00:20:58,445 to build that silence in 497 00:20:58,465 --> 00:21:00,445 as you're asking more introspective questions. 498 00:21:00,465 --> 00:21:01,685 Is that fair to say? Yeah, 499 00:21:01,905 --> 00:21:02,905 - It is. 500 00:21:03,125 --> 00:21:05,765 Absolutely. You do, you do have to be okay with the silence. 501 00:21:05,835 --> 00:21:08,245 Yeah. And if you're not uncomfortable at some point, 502 00:21:08,375 --> 00:21:10,605 maybe we're not getting deep enough. 503 00:21:10,875 --> 00:21:11,875 - Yeah. - Yeah. 504 00:21:12,305 --> 00:21:14,285 - Or even just tell 'em like, Hey, you got one, 505 00:21:14,375 --> 00:21:15,885 let's take one minute everybody, 506 00:21:15,885 --> 00:21:17,685 or two minutes, and here's this question. 507 00:21:17,825 --> 00:21:19,285 Why don't you just sit with it? Right. Mm-Hmm. 508 00:21:19,325 --> 00:21:20,325 . So, Mm-Hmm. , 509 00:21:21,305 --> 00:21:23,245 - One way to really use this kind 510 00:21:23,245 --> 00:21:26,285 of question is when someone gives you ask a factual 511 00:21:26,505 --> 00:21:29,245 or a, an explanatory question, they do that. 512 00:21:29,355 --> 00:21:32,415 Then you dive in with the introspective question 513 00:21:32,995 --> 00:21:34,815 and you do a follow-up question to that. 514 00:21:36,335 --> 00:21:38,555 And, and it's, it's a great, especially for youth 515 00:21:38,615 --> 00:21:41,035 who will just often give the Sunday school answers, 516 00:21:41,035 --> 00:21:43,355 and they'll just, you know, I don't want to go any deeper, 517 00:21:43,775 --> 00:21:45,835 but this kind of makes them go deeper if 518 00:21:45,835 --> 00:21:46,995 they're going to answer the question. 519 00:21:47,065 --> 00:21:49,515 Yeah. And then that's where you ha kind of have 520 00:21:49,515 --> 00:21:50,915 to give the space as well, like you were saying, 521 00:21:50,915 --> 00:21:54,715 the silence, because they may start thinking about things 522 00:21:54,715 --> 00:21:56,235 that they have never considered before. 523 00:21:56,625 --> 00:21:58,955 - Yeah. Anything else around the, the ex 524 00:21:59,465 --> 00:22:00,835 explanatory question? 525 00:22:01,175 --> 00:22:02,595 Uh, you talking introspective, 526 00:22:02,655 --> 00:22:04,275 is there other components to that or 527 00:22:05,195 --> 00:22:08,255 - With the introspective, you 528 00:22:08,255 --> 00:22:11,815 and I have talked about kind of creating a space, uh, uh, 529 00:22:12,055 --> 00:22:13,375 a safe space, uhhuh 530 00:22:13,415 --> 00:22:14,415 - . 531 00:22:14,415 --> 00:22:17,535 - Right. You have to create that space where they want 532 00:22:17,535 --> 00:22:19,255 to answer and are okay to answer that. 533 00:22:20,195 --> 00:22:24,935 Um, if you don't have that, then no one's going 534 00:22:24,935 --> 00:22:26,575 to answer the introspective questions. 535 00:22:26,575 --> 00:22:28,775 They're, they, you may ask an introspective question, 536 00:22:28,775 --> 00:22:32,095 but they'll answer it in an explanatory way. Mm-Hmm. 537 00:22:32,135 --> 00:22:33,185 - . - Yeah. 538 00:22:33,185 --> 00:22:35,225 So it's really important to create that space. 539 00:22:35,685 --> 00:22:40,025 And then the last kind of question is the transformative 540 00:22:40,595 --> 00:22:44,545 where, and, and these are more question unicorns where 541 00:22:46,565 --> 00:22:48,945 you don't plan them, but they just happened. 542 00:22:48,945 --> 00:22:51,225 Yeah. Let me ask you, have you ever had a question 543 00:22:51,225 --> 00:22:52,905 that has asked, that you have been asked 544 00:22:52,935 --> 00:22:56,265 that has completely changed your outlook on something? 545 00:22:56,765 --> 00:22:58,505 Or, or in your life maybe even? 546 00:22:59,305 --> 00:23:01,225 - Hmm. I'm sure I have, I'm trying to think 547 00:23:01,225 --> 00:23:02,265 of, of an example. 548 00:23:02,365 --> 00:23:05,185 But you know, one of those questions that it, 549 00:23:05,185 --> 00:23:07,305 like it, it hits you, right? 550 00:23:07,305 --> 00:23:09,825 Yeah. You must go like, wait a minute. Yeah. Wow. 551 00:23:09,825 --> 00:23:12,185 That's a, that's a, like, you've guided me down this path, 552 00:23:12,365 --> 00:23:13,785 and then you, you throw that at me. 553 00:23:13,785 --> 00:23:15,665 Like, I gotta, I can't just reply, 554 00:23:16,425 --> 00:23:17,785 I just can't respond that quickly. 555 00:23:17,845 --> 00:23:19,585 You know, I gotta sit with it, right? Yeah. 556 00:23:20,455 --> 00:23:24,025 - Yeah. Tho these kind of questions make a huge impact, 557 00:23:24,845 --> 00:23:29,025 but it's, they're, you can't really plan them 558 00:23:29,215 --> 00:23:31,945 because one person, it'll hit another person, 559 00:23:32,495 --> 00:23:33,505 it's not gonna hit, and 560 00:23:33,505 --> 00:23:34,545 they'll just go, oh, that's really nice. 561 00:23:35,365 --> 00:23:37,065 And, and move on. Yeah. 562 00:23:37,065 --> 00:23:39,305 So it's more of a, on the, on the learner side, 563 00:23:39,305 --> 00:23:41,145 whether it's transformative or not. 564 00:23:41,905 --> 00:23:43,465 - Um, yeah. - And, 565 00:23:43,485 --> 00:23:45,710 and that's where we'd love to get to, to, we'd love to get 566 00:23:45,710 --> 00:23:48,285 to the ti to the place where when we teach, 567 00:23:48,285 --> 00:23:50,765 whether it's our kids or a class where we, 568 00:23:50,765 --> 00:23:52,965 where we're asking these introspective questions 569 00:23:53,745 --> 00:23:55,645 and they're having an experience, 570 00:23:55,645 --> 00:23:57,565 they're really understanding, wow, okay. 571 00:23:57,565 --> 00:23:59,565 That's how I feel. I've never thought about that before. 572 00:23:59,685 --> 00:24:01,365 I need to go wrestle with that even. 573 00:24:02,065 --> 00:24:04,045 And part of the part, part of the problem 574 00:24:04,145 --> 00:24:05,805 of asking introspective questions 575 00:24:05,825 --> 00:24:10,265 as we walk down this path here is that the teacher, lets go 576 00:24:11,125 --> 00:24:12,225 of control of the class, 577 00:24:13,905 --> 00:24:16,525 and suddenly this becomes more 578 00:24:16,525 --> 00:24:19,205 of a shared experience rather than a I am guiding it, 579 00:24:19,205 --> 00:24:20,365 and this is what you need to learn, 580 00:24:20,865 --> 00:24:24,005 and here you go, here's my content for today. 581 00:24:24,315 --> 00:24:26,765 - Yeah. No, that does, I, I love this component, 582 00:24:26,765 --> 00:24:28,445 especially in the context of teaching, is 583 00:24:28,445 --> 00:24:32,845 that it will like thrust people into their own study. 584 00:24:32,855 --> 00:24:35,525 Right. And what, what a great place to end, you know, 585 00:24:35,645 --> 00:24:36,645 a a classroom or, 586 00:24:36,645 --> 00:24:41,045 and inspire is this, this a question so powerful 587 00:24:41,045 --> 00:24:42,805 that on the drive home, they just can't, 588 00:24:42,805 --> 00:24:44,125 they can't get it outta their mind, right? 589 00:24:44,345 --> 00:24:46,205 Yes. They, they lay down a bed and like, ah, 590 00:24:46,745 --> 00:24:47,765 or the next time they're, 591 00:24:47,765 --> 00:24:49,365 they're opening their scriptures like, okay, I got, 592 00:24:49,605 --> 00:24:50,645 I gotta dig in more here. 593 00:24:50,645 --> 00:24:52,685 Right? And that's, that's a perfect scenario. Yeah. 594 00:24:52,955 --> 00:24:56,085 - Yeah. And that's what I hope every time I teach, I hope 595 00:24:56,085 --> 00:24:59,525 to leave with something like that, some kind of question 596 00:25:00,055 --> 00:25:01,965 where they need to go. 597 00:25:02,075 --> 00:25:04,765 They, the learning continues on beyond 598 00:25:05,235 --> 00:25:06,325 what we just discussed. 599 00:25:06,385 --> 00:25:09,685 Mm-Hmm. . Because if, if we as teachers say, 600 00:25:09,685 --> 00:25:10,805 here's the content, there you go. 601 00:25:10,805 --> 00:25:12,885 They can walk away and go, go, great, I learned that. 602 00:25:13,625 --> 00:25:16,445 And then stop, and then it has an end. Yeah. 603 00:25:17,025 --> 00:25:19,885 - But - What if we were able to extend that 604 00:25:19,985 --> 00:25:21,205 by asking great questions? 605 00:25:21,275 --> 00:25:22,885 Like you said, you're driving home 606 00:25:22,885 --> 00:25:24,605 where you're at in bed at night thinking, wow, 607 00:25:25,245 --> 00:25:26,405 I really need to figure that out. 608 00:25:26,755 --> 00:25:28,485 - Yeah. - And, but that's hard 609 00:25:28,485 --> 00:25:30,365 because you're gonna be asking questions 610 00:25:30,365 --> 00:25:32,605 that may be a little bit, I'm gonna, 611 00:25:32,665 --> 00:25:33,845 I'm gonna use the word controversial, 612 00:25:33,945 --> 00:25:38,125 but not in the con contemporary text that we think of 613 00:25:38,125 --> 00:25:39,165 that uhhuh or context. 614 00:25:39,675 --> 00:25:42,725 It's more of a controversial, in my mind of what 615 00:25:42,725 --> 00:25:46,725 that may be personally to me, in, in, in the way I feel and, 616 00:25:46,725 --> 00:25:48,925 and the logic that I have going around in my brain. 617 00:25:49,315 --> 00:25:51,725 - Yeah. And, and you know, sometimes we're like, uh, 618 00:25:51,795 --> 00:25:54,445 I've got, I, I pretty much got first ne I figured out, 619 00:25:54,565 --> 00:25:56,445 I mean, I've been through this several times, 620 00:25:56,795 --> 00:25:58,245 I've heard the lessons, and, 621 00:25:58,245 --> 00:26:00,885 but for them to be taken on this journey where they, 622 00:26:00,915 --> 00:26:02,125 they can't, they're like, wow. 623 00:26:02,155 --> 00:26:03,645 Like, I wanna jump back in. You know? 624 00:26:03,645 --> 00:26:05,525 That's, that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. 625 00:26:06,265 --> 00:26:09,405 Uh, these are the five question like components 626 00:26:09,505 --> 00:26:10,645 or the type of questions I 627 00:26:10,645 --> 00:26:11,725 guess that a teacher can have in mind. 628 00:26:11,825 --> 00:26:16,125 So I'm curious, like a Sunday school teacher is sitting 629 00:26:16,235 --> 00:26:18,885 down, you know, they, they've sort of bathed in the, 630 00:26:18,985 --> 00:26:23,405 the scriptures of, you know, the reading lesson and um, and, 631 00:26:23,465 --> 00:26:24,885 and you know, they have maybe a series 632 00:26:24,885 --> 00:26:25,925 of questions come to mind. 633 00:26:25,925 --> 00:26:28,765 Like, how, how, where does the rubber hit the road 634 00:26:28,765 --> 00:26:31,805 with This is far as like, how do I organize this? 635 00:26:31,905 --> 00:26:33,445 Is it more of maybe a skillset? 636 00:26:33,645 --> 00:26:36,325 I just sort of get the feels I'm asking questions, I jump 637 00:26:36,325 --> 00:26:40,005 to a binary, to a, uh, then down to a, you know, 638 00:26:40,555 --> 00:26:41,725 explanatory question 639 00:26:41,825 --> 00:26:45,565 or how, how, how can a what, what's the structure of this 640 00:26:45,565 --> 00:26:47,525 that a person, a teacher can use 641 00:26:47,525 --> 00:26:48,765 when they're teaching a lesson? 642 00:26:49,275 --> 00:26:52,245 - Good. So typically you start with a binary. 643 00:26:52,745 --> 00:26:55,285 You go to the factual, you go to the explanatory 644 00:26:55,385 --> 00:26:56,805 and into the introspective now. 645 00:26:56,805 --> 00:26:59,765 And that's, that's kind of a basic model 646 00:26:59,765 --> 00:27:01,565 that just getting used to it. 647 00:27:01,665 --> 00:27:03,165 You can start using at, 648 00:27:03,665 --> 00:27:05,805 but when you start really diving into it, you start 649 00:27:05,805 --> 00:27:07,805 to realize, no, I can jump back 650 00:27:07,805 --> 00:27:11,965 and forth between all of them, depending on, you know, okay, 651 00:27:12,185 --> 00:27:13,925 do they need to learn more about this topic? 652 00:27:13,995 --> 00:27:15,725 Okay, I need to jump back a level. 653 00:27:16,065 --> 00:27:17,925 And really, I hate to call 'em levels 654 00:27:17,925 --> 00:27:19,365 because they're really not levels 655 00:27:19,545 --> 00:27:20,645 in and of themselves, right? 656 00:27:20,645 --> 00:27:22,925 They're just different types. And so, 657 00:27:23,425 --> 00:27:26,365 but you can start to jump back and forth between them. 658 00:27:26,865 --> 00:27:29,245 Now, there's no one way to do it. 659 00:27:29,285 --> 00:27:30,645 I mean, there, there are several ways 660 00:27:30,645 --> 00:27:34,445 that you can combine them to do different things, um, 661 00:27:34,455 --> 00:27:35,685 using different tactics. 662 00:27:35,745 --> 00:27:40,485 But that's, uh, it, it, that's kind of on a, 663 00:27:40,775 --> 00:27:43,285 after you've really dove into questions 664 00:27:43,285 --> 00:27:45,805 and really are using questions really, really effectively, 665 00:27:45,805 --> 00:27:47,765 then you start to learn some of those strategies. 666 00:27:48,305 --> 00:27:50,045 But I would say as kind of a teacher, 667 00:27:50,965 --> 00:27:54,565 I would even highly recommend that you build out your 668 00:27:55,195 --> 00:27:56,725 content Mm-Hmm. 669 00:27:56,765 --> 00:27:58,405 write out your questions. 670 00:28:00,155 --> 00:28:04,615 And what, what I typically do is I almost always just get 671 00:28:04,615 --> 00:28:08,335 rid of the content, and I've got my questions, and, and I, 672 00:28:08,795 --> 00:28:11,335 and in the end, what I, the notes that I take with me 673 00:28:11,915 --> 00:28:16,785 are maybe a few scriptures, and then just questions and, 674 00:28:16,805 --> 00:28:19,065 and let it go from there and see where it goes 675 00:28:19,485 --> 00:28:21,585 and let go of control, which is kind 676 00:28:21,585 --> 00:28:24,025 of maybe really scary for some people. 677 00:28:24,135 --> 00:28:25,225 - Yeah, yeah. For sure. 678 00:28:25,485 --> 00:28:27,865 And, and, and again, it's important to, to read the content 679 00:28:28,005 --> 00:28:29,145 of, of the verses Right. 680 00:28:29,145 --> 00:28:30,665 But not so that you can teach it per 681 00:28:30,665 --> 00:28:31,825 se is more, as you can recall it. 682 00:28:31,825 --> 00:28:34,625 Right. And like, oh, that what you just said there reminds 683 00:28:34,625 --> 00:28:36,945 me of something that happened in, you know, 684 00:28:36,945 --> 00:28:37,985 second efi, whatever. 685 00:28:38,045 --> 00:28:39,785 And, and yeah. Then you, you go there, right? 686 00:28:40,205 --> 00:28:42,865 Rather than, okay, they, everybody has to leave 687 00:28:42,865 --> 00:28:43,945 with a 'cause. 688 00:28:43,945 --> 00:28:46,025 This is a temptation that you want everybody leave 689 00:28:46,025 --> 00:28:48,665 with clarity of, of whatever the lesson plan was. 690 00:28:48,685 --> 00:28:50,105 But like you said, uh, have 'em leave 691 00:28:50,105 --> 00:28:52,625 with some questions is, is even better, you know? Right. 692 00:28:52,975 --> 00:28:56,385 - Yeah. If you can read averse, it's one thing to re averse 693 00:28:56,685 --> 00:28:57,985 and say, this is what we learned. 694 00:28:58,335 --> 00:29:00,025 It's another thing to re averse 695 00:29:00,125 --> 00:29:02,185 and say, what did you learn from that? 696 00:29:02,815 --> 00:29:04,625 What, what can you share about that? 697 00:29:05,335 --> 00:29:06,425 What do you, what have you learned 698 00:29:06,425 --> 00:29:07,905 that someone else in the room hasn't learned? 699 00:29:08,125 --> 00:29:10,905 Mm-Hmm. . And, and do it that way. Yeah. 700 00:29:11,685 --> 00:29:13,545 - Any, anything else we haven't covered as far 701 00:29:13,545 --> 00:29:14,785 as the five types of questions? 702 00:29:14,885 --> 00:29:16,905 Or did we, do we do pretty good there? 703 00:29:17,215 --> 00:29:19,105 - Yeah. Well, I'll, I'll also mention this. 704 00:29:19,535 --> 00:29:20,905 It's not only great for teaching, 705 00:29:20,905 --> 00:29:23,105 but it's great for leadership as well. 706 00:29:23,905 --> 00:29:26,425 - Hmm. - Asking the right kind of questions. 707 00:29:27,845 --> 00:29:29,745 Um, for example, yeah. 708 00:29:30,705 --> 00:29:32,395 When you have someone who, 709 00:29:33,045 --> 00:29:35,075 let's say you're in a leadership position 710 00:29:35,215 --> 00:29:39,435 and you want to fill a calling someone, someone moved. 711 00:29:39,625 --> 00:29:43,005 Okay, great. Now we have a opening in young women's 712 00:29:43,385 --> 00:29:44,645 and we need to fill them. 713 00:29:45,605 --> 00:29:48,575 What, according to what you've seen, what you've heard, 714 00:29:48,925 --> 00:29:52,015 what is the typical question someone might ask next? 715 00:29:52,995 --> 00:29:55,455 - Uh, well, like when filling the calling? Yeah. Or, yeah. 716 00:29:55,475 --> 00:29:57,575 Uh, well, who doesn't have a calling? . 717 00:29:57,645 --> 00:30:00,135 - Yeah. Right? Who doesn't have a calling? 718 00:30:00,395 --> 00:30:03,015 Who could we put in here? Yeah. Who might be good. Yeah. 719 00:30:03,325 --> 00:30:04,735 What if we change the question, 720 00:30:04,735 --> 00:30:07,895 something too along the lines of whose life 721 00:30:08,845 --> 00:30:09,895 will really be blessed 722 00:30:10,035 --> 00:30:11,655 and come closer to Jesus Christ 723 00:30:12,315 --> 00:30:13,975 by fulfilling this responsibility? 724 00:30:14,075 --> 00:30:15,925 Mm-Hmm. , that is a 725 00:30:15,925 --> 00:30:17,405 completely different question. 726 00:30:18,735 --> 00:30:21,515 And just by asking different questions, 727 00:30:22,665 --> 00:30:25,405 we can change the way we lead as well. 728 00:30:25,475 --> 00:30:27,445 - Yeah. Stimulates revelation, right? 729 00:30:27,705 --> 00:30:30,165 - Yes. Yeah. - Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. 730 00:30:30,625 --> 00:30:32,525 Um, are you familiar with Liz Wiseman? 731 00:30:32,525 --> 00:30:35,245 Do you know who that is? No. Uh, she's, she's a guest on, 732 00:30:35,245 --> 00:30:37,005 she's been a guest a couple times on leading stage. 733 00:30:37,055 --> 00:30:40,365 She's a author, leadership author who happens to be LDS. 734 00:30:40,625 --> 00:30:42,205 She wrote a book called Multipliers, 735 00:30:42,705 --> 00:30:44,965 and she talks about this dynamic of asking questions. 736 00:30:44,965 --> 00:30:46,845 She even talk, uh, we'll have to link to it, 737 00:30:46,845 --> 00:30:49,245 but she gave a talk at, um, at BYU 738 00:30:49,495 --> 00:30:50,725 where she talks about this concept 739 00:30:50,785 --> 00:30:52,045 of simply asking questions. 740 00:30:52,065 --> 00:30:53,445 So, and she does, in the context 741 00:30:53,465 --> 00:30:54,845 of putting your kids to bed at night. 742 00:30:55,345 --> 00:30:57,245 Um, and instead of, you know, 743 00:30:57,355 --> 00:30:59,445 barking the demands like I typically do, 744 00:30:59,445 --> 00:31:01,685 like brush your teeth, get your pajamas on, right? 745 00:31:01,685 --> 00:31:02,885 Like, put your toys away. 746 00:31:03,225 --> 00:31:04,685 She said she challenged herself, 747 00:31:04,685 --> 00:31:06,405 or I think a colleague challenged her that 748 00:31:06,705 --> 00:31:09,125 to simply ask questions the whole time. 749 00:31:09,625 --> 00:31:12,525 Uh, you know what, it's, it, it's, uh, you know, what, 750 00:31:12,525 --> 00:31:14,285 what do we typically do this time of night? 751 00:31:14,285 --> 00:31:16,645 Well, we go to bed, right? What do we do first when we go, 752 00:31:16,745 --> 00:31:19,365 you know, and then they sort of are guided down this. 753 00:31:19,425 --> 00:31:21,245 And so, yeah. I've often proposed 754 00:31:21,345 --> 00:31:22,885 to put it out there for like leaders. 755 00:31:23,545 --> 00:31:26,445 If, if you're the bishop, like I challenge you to try 756 00:31:26,545 --> 00:31:28,965 and facilitate a word council meeting, 757 00:31:28,965 --> 00:31:31,565 where the only rule is you can only ask questions. 758 00:31:31,775 --> 00:31:33,165 Right. And, 759 00:31:33,345 --> 00:31:36,365 and it's amazing the safety that creates, 760 00:31:36,905 --> 00:31:39,685 it opens up everybody's mind, revelation flows. 761 00:31:39,685 --> 00:31:42,685 People feel like, uh, you know, you're inviting them in 762 00:31:42,685 --> 00:31:45,205 to part participate rather than just saying, yeah, I'm, 763 00:31:45,345 --> 00:31:47,045 I'm calling the shots here, , here we go. 764 00:31:47,105 --> 00:31:48,845 You know? So it's a powerful concept in, 765 00:31:48,905 --> 00:31:50,165 in those contexts. Yeah, it 766 00:31:50,165 --> 00:31:51,165 - Is. 767 00:31:51,165 --> 00:31:53,565 It is not, not only in teaching, but also in leadership. 768 00:31:53,565 --> 00:31:56,285 You're right. Yeah. If you can just ask questions, and, 769 00:31:56,345 --> 00:31:59,645 and I would highly recommend that everyone try that. 770 00:32:00,235 --> 00:32:01,365 It's not easy to do 771 00:32:01,365 --> 00:32:05,205 because we want to give direction, we want to give content. 772 00:32:05,345 --> 00:32:07,085 We want to say, this is the way it's gonna go. 773 00:32:07,385 --> 00:32:10,405 But to step back and just ask questions, 774 00:32:10,465 --> 00:32:12,485 and then you'll find out, oh my goodness, 775 00:32:13,065 --> 00:32:14,245 was that even a good question? 776 00:32:14,875 --> 00:32:17,565 That was a pretty poor question, . 777 00:32:17,865 --> 00:32:19,325 And then start to realize I need 778 00:32:19,325 --> 00:32:20,685 to upgrade my questions a little bit. 779 00:32:20,725 --> 00:32:22,085 I need to spend some time 780 00:32:22,145 --> 00:32:23,845 and really think about what I'm asking 781 00:32:23,905 --> 00:32:25,845 and who I'm asking of it of 782 00:32:27,155 --> 00:32:29,925 that can completely change the way we not only teach, 783 00:32:29,945 --> 00:32:31,085 but we also lead. 784 00:32:31,515 --> 00:32:33,325 - Yeah. Yeah. That's really, really helpful. 785 00:32:34,065 --> 00:32:37,045 Um, any other thought principle tactic we need 786 00:32:37,045 --> 00:32:39,445 to make sure we cover before we wrap up? Or how do we do? 787 00:32:40,265 --> 00:32:43,125 - Um, I would just, I would just suggest that 788 00:32:43,305 --> 00:32:47,685 as people are leading, as people are teaching, that 789 00:32:48,635 --> 00:32:49,775 you focus on the question. 790 00:32:50,115 --> 00:32:51,375 And one, one, um, 791 00:32:52,275 --> 00:32:54,655 one exercise I do is I will write down a question 792 00:32:54,655 --> 00:32:58,015 that I think will be good, and then I reiterate it 793 00:32:59,195 --> 00:33:02,585 maybe 20 times and say, that's a que 794 00:33:02,585 --> 00:33:03,705 that that is a question. 795 00:33:04,125 --> 00:33:06,705 But is it, can I ask a better question? Yeah. 796 00:33:06,705 --> 00:33:08,585 And then do it again and again. 797 00:33:08,605 --> 00:33:11,105 And then when you get to around 10, it starts to get harder. 798 00:33:11,365 --> 00:33:14,505 But that's where the really good questions come in and you, 799 00:33:14,565 --> 00:33:16,305 and you realize, oh yes, 800 00:33:16,365 --> 00:33:19,145 we can do this a lot better than just what's 801 00:33:19,145 --> 00:33:20,185 off the top of our heads. 802 00:33:20,655 --> 00:33:23,665 Yeah. Go through those questions and it's, and, 803 00:33:24,325 --> 00:33:25,665 and the revelation of 804 00:33:25,695 --> 00:33:29,475 what you can ask, it becomes incredible. 805 00:33:29,615 --> 00:33:32,195 It becomes more of a discussion becomes deeper all 806 00:33:32,195 --> 00:33:33,955 of a sudden when you ask those questions. 807 00:33:34,495 --> 00:33:35,915 - That's really helpful, just that sort of, 808 00:33:35,915 --> 00:33:39,035 that brainstorming process of, you know, letting it unfold 809 00:33:39,055 --> 00:33:40,995 and, and process when it just comes 810 00:33:40,995 --> 00:33:42,395 to the questions 'cause questions. 811 00:33:42,675 --> 00:33:45,705 I think conceptually it's like, it's such a basic thing, 812 00:33:45,705 --> 00:33:47,785 like a question's a question and, and yeah. 813 00:33:47,925 --> 00:33:49,225 You know, Kevin's done a good job 814 00:33:49,225 --> 00:33:50,905 with showing different types of questions, 815 00:33:50,965 --> 00:33:53,185 but I mean, questions a question, 816 00:33:53,185 --> 00:33:55,465 but then sometimes you can just change one word 817 00:33:55,465 --> 00:33:57,305 and it's like, oh, like that, 818 00:33:57,305 --> 00:34:00,345 that makes me intrigued just a little bit more, you know? 819 00:34:00,485 --> 00:34:02,025 And, and, and it's almost, 820 00:34:02,205 --> 00:34:05,145 the questions can almost become magic when you put out a 821 00:34:05,265 --> 00:34:06,785 question and, and people can't help. 822 00:34:06,785 --> 00:34:09,665 But, but no, it for that, those 40, 50 minutes of the class, 823 00:34:09,685 --> 00:34:11,945 you know that it goes and leads to more questions 824 00:34:12,005 --> 00:34:13,665 and discussion and it's awesome. Yeah. 825 00:34:13,775 --> 00:34:14,625 - It's awesome. I'll give you, 826 00:34:14,625 --> 00:34:15,865 I'll give you another example of that. 827 00:34:15,885 --> 00:34:17,305 You said just change one word. 828 00:34:17,305 --> 00:34:19,505 How about just change the tone, for example. Oh yeah. 829 00:34:19,565 --> 00:34:22,345 My wife went to go drop off something 830 00:34:22,345 --> 00:34:23,985 to her friend's house years ago, 831 00:34:24,845 --> 00:34:26,145 and the friend opened up the door 832 00:34:26,145 --> 00:34:27,465 and said, Hey Kelly, how are you? 833 00:34:27,485 --> 00:34:29,745 She said, great. As, as we always do, right? 834 00:34:29,765 --> 00:34:32,905 That's a question that we abuse constantly. How you doing? 835 00:34:33,035 --> 00:34:34,265 Great. Uhhuh, , I mean, 836 00:34:34,265 --> 00:34:35,545 we did it at the beginning of this podcast, right? 837 00:34:35,545 --> 00:34:37,745 That's how you doing. Great. Alright, great. And we move on. 838 00:34:37,965 --> 00:34:40,065 Do I really care about how you're doing Kurt, 839 00:34:40,235 --> 00:34:41,235 - Right? 840 00:34:41,235 --> 00:34:42,585 , I mean, I, I would like to think so. 841 00:34:42,825 --> 00:34:45,505 - , well, yeah, I do, but right then at that moment, 842 00:34:46,015 --> 00:34:49,625 that really wasn't a, a question that either 843 00:34:49,705 --> 00:34:52,505 of us were really willing to dive in and explore. 844 00:34:52,735 --> 00:34:55,345 Yeah, right. Because we were gonna going to move on. Yeah. 845 00:34:55,345 --> 00:34:57,785 And, and it's, it's kind of how we greet each other and, 846 00:34:57,925 --> 00:34:59,865 and there's really nothing wrong with that. 847 00:35:00,005 --> 00:35:02,145 But again, at the same time, we abuse that. 848 00:35:02,205 --> 00:35:05,105 So when my wife answered I'm doing great, 849 00:35:05,865 --> 00:35:10,645 she looked at my wife and said, Kelly, how are you? 850 00:35:11,145 --> 00:35:13,445 Mm-Hmm, . And my wife broke down . 851 00:35:13,445 --> 00:35:15,445 And I mean, it was, yeah. 852 00:35:15,465 --> 00:35:18,085 All of a sudden she was asking the exact same words, 853 00:35:18,465 --> 00:35:20,285 but then this time she meant it. 854 00:35:20,675 --> 00:35:24,125 This time it was no, really, how are you? 855 00:35:24,665 --> 00:35:28,045 And it allowed my wife time to open up 856 00:35:28,705 --> 00:35:31,005 and to explain, this is really hard. 857 00:35:31,005 --> 00:35:32,005 This is what's going on. 858 00:35:32,065 --> 00:35:36,465 And, and, and we can do the same thing in as we, you know, 859 00:35:37,145 --> 00:35:40,045 as leaders, as we counsel with people, a lot of 860 00:35:40,045 --> 00:35:43,005 that can happen by asking the right questions when we 861 00:35:43,005 --> 00:35:46,685 counsel, when we lead meetings out, 862 00:35:47,575 --> 00:35:48,595 really diving in. 863 00:35:48,775 --> 00:35:49,875 How many times have we heard? 864 00:35:50,135 --> 00:35:53,915 So, uh, Kurt, how was the, uh, how was the activity, 865 00:35:53,975 --> 00:35:56,195 how was the young men's activity this week, ? 866 00:35:56,695 --> 00:35:57,875 Oh, it was great. Good. Yeah. 867 00:35:57,935 --> 00:36:02,365 And we move on when actually it wasn't that great, 868 00:36:02,785 --> 00:36:05,605 but we, we don't know what else to say maybe. 869 00:36:05,755 --> 00:36:08,165 - Yeah. My mind just went to the, the question here a lot 870 00:36:08,165 --> 00:36:09,405 where, you know, obviously in, 871 00:36:09,665 --> 00:36:12,525 in the come follow me age here, we, we want people 872 00:36:12,625 --> 00:36:15,445 to bring part of their personal study to the classroom. 873 00:36:15,585 --> 00:36:16,685 So you may start a class 874 00:36:16,705 --> 00:36:17,805 and saying, alright, 875 00:36:18,145 --> 00:36:20,645 how was your come follow me reading this week? 876 00:36:20,785 --> 00:36:23,565 Or, you know, any, what was your favorite, any, 877 00:36:23,585 --> 00:36:25,205 any highlights you wanna share, right? 878 00:36:25,585 --> 00:36:27,005 And you sort of throw it out there 879 00:36:27,005 --> 00:36:28,525 and see if anybody bites, you know, 880 00:36:28,585 --> 00:36:30,045 and it's like, okay, moving on, 881 00:36:30,215 --> 00:36:31,805 let's move on to my lesson plan now. 882 00:36:31,805 --> 00:36:34,645 But, but to maybe just sit with 'em, like, no, like 883 00:36:35,395 --> 00:36:36,885 what caught you off guard? 884 00:36:37,075 --> 00:36:40,285 Like, or what, what, when you were driving around listening 885 00:36:40,285 --> 00:36:41,885 to that, uh, you know, that scripture 886 00:36:41,985 --> 00:36:44,885 or whatever, like, was there anything that gave you pause? 887 00:36:44,935 --> 00:36:46,365 Right. And maybe, and even asking 888 00:36:46,385 --> 00:36:47,605 the same question in different ways. 889 00:36:47,605 --> 00:36:49,805 You're just, you're massaging it into the room, right? 890 00:36:49,865 --> 00:36:53,045 And, and then suddenly people are actually, now 891 00:36:53,045 --> 00:36:53,765 that you put it that way, 892 00:36:53,835 --> 00:36:55,845 I've, I thought of something, you know? Yeah. 893 00:36:56,105 --> 00:36:58,405 - So, and I, and I've, I've done that where 894 00:36:59,735 --> 00:37:02,785 I've had the content in a class, but I come in 895 00:37:02,785 --> 00:37:04,345 and I start asking questions like that 896 00:37:04,445 --> 00:37:05,785 and the content is gone 897 00:37:05,785 --> 00:37:08,025 because we are talking about what they learned. 898 00:37:08,535 --> 00:37:09,745 Yeah. And they share it 899 00:37:09,885 --> 00:37:12,145 and they bring out the stuff that I was gonna teach anyways. 900 00:37:12,205 --> 00:37:13,665 It doesn't matter. Yeah, right. 901 00:37:13,685 --> 00:37:16,105 It comes out anyways, but it comes from them 902 00:37:16,105 --> 00:37:17,585 and when it comes from them, it becomes 903 00:37:17,685 --> 00:37:18,705 so much more powerful. 904 00:37:18,815 --> 00:37:20,625 - Yeah. It's powerful. Awesome. 905 00:37:20,715 --> 00:37:22,945 Kevin, this has, this has been great and really helpful. 906 00:37:23,185 --> 00:37:25,065 I think, uh, a lot of, a lot of, uh, 907 00:37:25,345 --> 00:37:26,705 teachers I think will benefit from these 908 00:37:26,815 --> 00:37:27,985 just being more aware, right? 909 00:37:27,985 --> 00:37:30,625 Just that, that self-awareness of the questions we ask. 910 00:37:30,935 --> 00:37:33,265 Like you said, it can be sort of this, uh, 911 00:37:33,895 --> 00:37:35,625 this passive thought of, 912 00:37:35,655 --> 00:37:36,785 well, yeah, I'm gonna ask questions. 913 00:37:36,785 --> 00:37:37,905 I don't know what I'm gonna ask. I'll 914 00:37:37,905 --> 00:37:38,985 figure that out when, when I get there. 915 00:37:39,045 --> 00:37:40,985 But to really give space 916 00:37:41,125 --> 00:37:43,625 to process the questions you will ask, I think it'll lead to 917 00:37:44,185 --> 00:37:45,345 a higher learning experience. 918 00:37:45,405 --> 00:37:47,825 So that's awesome. Um, it, 919 00:37:48,365 --> 00:37:51,185 if people wanna know more about your, your podcast, uh, 920 00:37:51,185 --> 00:37:53,185 where would you send them or where, where can they find it 921 00:37:53,645 --> 00:37:54,645 - At? 922 00:37:54,645 --> 00:37:58,665 Teaching restored.com That has, and then on Facebook 923 00:37:58,725 --> 00:38:00,025 and YouTube and Sure. 924 00:38:00,025 --> 00:38:01,305 Instagram and all that good stuff, you know. 925 00:38:01,775 --> 00:38:03,385 - Nice. And you have a co-host, Julie, 926 00:38:03,405 --> 00:38:06,345 who I've met does a phenomenal job as well, so 927 00:38:06,595 --> 00:38:07,595 - She's incredible. 928 00:38:07,815 --> 00:38:09,265 Yeah. Lots of, we have so much fun doing this. 929 00:38:09,565 --> 00:38:10,825 - That's cool. Awesome. Well, 930 00:38:10,825 --> 00:38:13,225 definitely people should check it out and we'll link to it 931 00:38:13,245 --> 00:38:15,385 and make sure people know exactly where to go. 932 00:38:15,765 --> 00:38:17,825 Um, Kevin, the last question I have for you. 933 00:38:17,965 --> 00:38:21,025 As you know, um, as you reflect on your time as a leader, 934 00:38:21,025 --> 00:38:23,225 whether it's in the Bishop Break, SCORP presidency, 935 00:38:23,225 --> 00:38:25,265 or being a teacher, I was, 936 00:38:25,265 --> 00:38:26,905 being a leader helped you become a better 937 00:38:26,905 --> 00:38:28,225 follower of Jesus Christ. 938 00:38:29,865 --> 00:38:33,165 - As I think on the, the times when I've been able to lead, 939 00:38:33,265 --> 00:38:37,285 it always comes back to me down to I wonder how much 940 00:38:38,375 --> 00:38:41,255 I led compared to how much they led me. 941 00:38:41,355 --> 00:38:44,255 And it becomes a one-on-one experience for me. 942 00:38:45,325 --> 00:38:50,215 Um, when when I get to work with someone one-on-one, 943 00:38:50,605 --> 00:38:53,015 it's so very different than all the administrative 944 00:38:53,015 --> 00:38:54,295 stuff that we have to do. 945 00:38:55,115 --> 00:38:58,415 And it's sad that we have to do the administrative stuff 946 00:38:58,595 --> 00:39:02,705 so much, but at the same time, when we get to dive in 947 00:39:03,895 --> 00:39:07,755 and do that one-on-one ministering with people, 948 00:39:08,875 --> 00:39:13,355 um, I, I somewhat feel like I am coming 949 00:39:13,475 --> 00:39:15,435 to closer to Christ because of that, 950 00:39:15,785 --> 00:39:19,355 because I'm also in a way hopefully helping that person 951 00:39:20,175 --> 00:39:22,475 and at the same time helping myself come into Christ. 952 00:39:22,575 --> 00:39:25,485 So for me, it's, it's a one-on-one, 953 00:39:25,485 --> 00:39:27,365 and I'm still trying to get better at that. 954 00:39:27,835 --> 00:39:31,565 There's so much more that I need to do to be better at kind 955 00:39:31,765 --> 00:39:35,885 of a one-on-one, um, mentality and diving in 956 00:39:35,885 --> 00:39:37,405 and forgetting the administrative 957 00:39:37,425 --> 00:39:39,165 and focusing on the ministering piece. 958 00:39:39,225 --> 00:39:42,725 But really it's the one-on-one for me, the experiences 959 00:39:42,725 --> 00:39:44,645 that I look back and I remember the most. 960 00:39:55,675 --> 00:39:58,245 - That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints podcast. 961 00:39:58,475 --> 00:39:59,765 We'd love to hear from you about 962 00:39:59,765 --> 00:40:01,285 your questions or thoughts or comments. 963 00:40:01,425 --> 00:40:03,805 You can either leave a comment on the, uh, post related 964 00:40:03,945 --> 00:40:06,405 to this episode@leadingsaints.org 965 00:40:06,405 --> 00:40:08,525 or go to leading saints.org/contact 966 00:40:09,065 --> 00:40:11,085 and send us your perspective or questions. 967 00:40:11,385 --> 00:40:12,485 If there's other episodes 968 00:40:12,485 --> 00:40:14,765 or topics you'd like to hear on the Leading Saints podcast, 969 00:40:14,985 --> 00:40:16,765 go to leading saints.org/contact 970 00:40:17,025 --> 00:40:18,805 and share with us the information there. 971 00:40:19,385 --> 00:40:21,325 And we would love for you to share this 972 00:40:21,325 --> 00:40:23,765 with any individual you think this would apply to, 973 00:40:23,765 --> 00:40:25,765 especially maybe individuals in your ward council 974 00:40:25,865 --> 00:40:27,805 or other leaders that you may know 975 00:40:27,945 --> 00:40:29,645 who would really appreciate the 976 00:40:29,645 --> 00:40:30,885 perspectives that we discussed. 977 00:40:31,225 --> 00:40:33,765 And remember, grab your copy of my new book, 978 00:40:33,945 --> 00:40:36,325 is God Disappointed In Me on Amazon 979 00:40:36,425 --> 00:40:37,965 or in select Costco stores? 980 00:40:45,265 --> 00:40:48,685 - It came as a result of the position of leadership, 981 00:40:48,695 --> 00:40:52,605 which was imposed upon us by the God of Heaven, 982 00:40:52,745 --> 00:40:55,885 who brought forth a restoration of the gospel 983 00:40:56,065 --> 00:40:57,405 of Jesus Christ. 984 00:40:57,985 --> 00:41:01,325 And when the Declaration was made concerning the only 985 00:41:01,385 --> 00:41:02,485 and only true 986 00:41:02,485 --> 00:41:05,365 and living church upon the face of the Earth, 987 00:41:06,105 --> 00:41:09,485 we were immediately put in a position of loneliness. 988 00:41:09,705 --> 00:41:11,405 The loneliness of leadership 989 00:41:12,155 --> 00:41:15,045 from which we cannot shrink nor run away. 990 00:41:16,265 --> 00:41:19,885 And to which we must face up with boldness and courage 991 00:41:20,665 --> 00:41:21,445 and ability.