1 00:00:02,185 --> 00:00:04,205 - How do you help someone tell their spouse 2 00:00:04,395 --> 00:00:06,805 that they have secretly been viewing pornography? 3 00:00:07,305 --> 00:00:09,325 Wow. These are tough situations. 4 00:00:09,535 --> 00:00:11,005 Thankfully, one of my favorite 5 00:00:11,105 --> 00:00:13,565 and most effective therapists, Jeff Reer, 6 00:00:13,825 --> 00:00:16,725 put together a presentation about disclosing betrayal. 7 00:00:17,155 --> 00:00:20,885 Jeff explains how disclosing betrayal can make recovery 8 00:00:20,985 --> 00:00:23,645 and repentance so much more difficult if it 9 00:00:23,645 --> 00:00:24,885 isn't handled correctly. 10 00:00:25,235 --> 00:00:28,165 This isn't a rip the bandaid off quickly type of situation. 11 00:00:28,475 --> 00:00:30,285 With a better understanding of betrayal, 12 00:00:30,285 --> 00:00:33,765 church leaders can be a strong resource in helping couples 13 00:00:34,125 --> 00:00:36,205 navigate the awful effects of pornography usage. 14 00:00:36,625 --> 00:00:40,205 You can watch Jeff's entire presentation at no cost in the 15 00:00:40,205 --> 00:00:41,805 Liberating Saints virtual library. 16 00:00:42,105 --> 00:00:44,605 Simply go to leading saints.org/fourteen 17 00:00:44,865 --> 00:00:47,525 and you can sign up for 14 days of free access 18 00:00:47,705 --> 00:00:50,285 to Jeff's presentation and the entire library. 19 00:00:50,675 --> 00:00:52,085 It's one of my favorite interviews. 20 00:00:56,745 --> 00:00:58,965 Hey, if you're newbie to Leading Saints, it's important 21 00:00:58,965 --> 00:01:01,925 that, you know, what is this Leading Saints thing? 22 00:01:02,035 --> 00:01:05,445 Well, leading Saints is a nonprofit organization dedicated, 23 00:01:05,445 --> 00:01:08,965 helping latter day saints be better prepared to lead. 24 00:01:09,185 --> 00:01:11,885 And the way we do that is through content creation. 25 00:01:11,885 --> 00:01:14,405 So we have this phenomenal podcast, we have a newsletter, 26 00:01:14,465 --> 00:01:16,045 we have virtual conferences. 27 00:01:16,465 --> 00:01:18,725 So much more at articles on our website. 28 00:01:18,805 --> 00:01:20,045 I mean, I could go on and on, right? 29 00:01:20,325 --> 00:01:22,565 , and we encourage you to, uh, jump in, 30 00:01:22,565 --> 00:01:24,285 check out Leading Saints, uh, go 31 00:01:24,285 --> 00:01:26,365 to the search bar@leadingsaints.org 32 00:01:26,385 --> 00:01:28,845 and type in some topics and see what pops up. 33 00:01:28,895 --> 00:01:30,765 We're just glad you're here to join us. 34 00:01:41,115 --> 00:01:42,605 Welcome back to another episode 35 00:01:42,605 --> 00:01:43,645 of the Leading Saints podcast. 36 00:01:43,855 --> 00:01:46,525 Today I am welcoming in Kyle Turner. How are you? I'm 37 00:01:46,525 --> 00:01:46,965 - Good. How are you? 38 00:01:46,965 --> 00:01:49,725 - Very good. Now you teach pharmacy 39 00:01:50,225 --> 00:01:51,365 at the University of Utah? 40 00:01:51,405 --> 00:01:53,125 I do. To the medical students? Uh, 41 00:01:53,125 --> 00:01:54,125 - Yeah. 42 00:01:54,125 --> 00:01:55,045 - Or are they going to become pharmacists 43 00:01:55,045 --> 00:01:56,045 - Themselves? 44 00:01:56,045 --> 00:01:56,925 They're, yep. Gonna become pharmacists. Nice. 45 00:01:56,945 --> 00:01:59,165 - Yep. And you're in a Bishop Rick? I am. 46 00:01:59,625 --> 00:02:01,445 I'm in Bishop Rick. But you also deal with a lot 47 00:02:01,445 --> 00:02:03,885 of healthcare leadership development. 48 00:02:03,915 --> 00:02:05,365 Like how did, how'd you get into that? 49 00:02:05,635 --> 00:02:08,485 - Yeah, so about 10 years ago while I was a student, 50 00:02:09,445 --> 00:02:11,765 actually, I had a faculty member basically asked me like, 51 00:02:11,765 --> 00:02:13,725 do you want a free trip to Boston ? 52 00:02:14,185 --> 00:02:16,325 I'm like, okay. Right. I was a pharmacy student. 53 00:02:16,325 --> 00:02:17,965 That sounded good, but I ended up going 54 00:02:17,965 --> 00:02:22,485 to a leadership summit, and it was, it was really amazing. 55 00:02:22,545 --> 00:02:25,125 It was actually based in storytelling, so in narrative 56 00:02:25,145 --> 00:02:26,365 and how that's a leadership skill. 57 00:02:26,945 --> 00:02:31,325 And that was sort of the kind of ignited that this idea 58 00:02:31,325 --> 00:02:33,645 that, oh, we need to be good leaders. 59 00:02:33,645 --> 00:02:34,725 Mm-Hmm. , we need leadership development 60 00:02:34,745 --> 00:02:36,405 and healthcare is like full 61 00:02:36,405 --> 00:02:37,645 of opportunities to lead . 62 00:02:37,645 --> 00:02:39,725 There's lots of broken things in healthcare . Yeah. 63 00:02:39,745 --> 00:02:41,885 And so, uh, that planted the seed, uh, 64 00:02:41,905 --> 00:02:43,125 as a resident in Minnesota, 65 00:02:43,445 --> 00:02:46,565 I had a program based in leadership that I loved, 66 00:02:46,865 --> 00:02:48,445 and I've just sort of stuck with it. 67 00:02:48,785 --> 00:02:52,005 And I actually, I love it more than, than pharmacy, right? 68 00:02:52,085 --> 00:02:53,405 I don't actually do a lot of pharmacy. 69 00:02:53,445 --> 00:02:56,205 I spend a, a lot of my time in how do teams work together? 70 00:02:56,425 --> 00:02:58,045 How do we develop leaders self-awareness? 71 00:02:58,265 --> 00:03:00,605 - That's cool. So was this conference you went to in Boston? 72 00:03:00,825 --> 00:03:04,245 Was it a for like, uh, healthcare professionals? Yeah. 73 00:03:04,345 --> 00:03:05,445 - It was me and then 74 00:03:05,665 --> 00:03:08,245 as a pharmacy student in a whole room of medical students. 75 00:03:08,395 --> 00:03:10,245 Nice. I was like, oh, what am I doing here? 76 00:03:10,245 --> 00:03:12,525 And they kept asking the same thing, like, why are you here? 77 00:03:12,595 --> 00:03:16,045 Yeah. But yeah, that just the idea that, you know, 78 00:03:16,065 --> 00:03:17,805 how do you lead change and Mm-Hmm. 79 00:03:17,845 --> 00:03:19,685 , how do we use our stories to help us 80 00:03:20,275 --> 00:03:21,275 - Yeah. 81 00:03:21,275 --> 00:03:22,565 To do that. So we're gonna talk about as far 82 00:03:22,565 --> 00:03:25,925 as relational leadership as sort of the concept that, 83 00:03:26,065 --> 00:03:28,405 is it your, the portion? 84 00:03:28,515 --> 00:03:30,125 Like how, how, where did this concept come from? 85 00:03:30,195 --> 00:03:32,485 - That conference actually was led 86 00:03:32,485 --> 00:03:34,085 by a group called Intent Health Strategies. 87 00:03:34,085 --> 00:03:37,925 So that's, it's a nonprofit while we spend a lot of our time 88 00:03:38,535 --> 00:03:40,565 doing trainings, either with individuals or teams. 89 00:03:40,905 --> 00:03:42,645 And so how do you help a team function better? 90 00:03:43,025 --> 00:03:44,405 So they put that conference on, 91 00:03:45,025 --> 00:03:47,365 and I was sort of like the, you know, 92 00:03:47,465 --> 00:03:49,005 the leech, I never left right. 93 00:03:49,205 --> 00:03:50,285 , I just kind of, I worked with him 94 00:03:50,285 --> 00:03:51,445 as a student, as a resident. 95 00:03:51,445 --> 00:03:53,765 And now in my regular job, I actually get 96 00:03:53,765 --> 00:03:55,365 to bring that into my day job. Nice. Which 97 00:03:55,385 --> 00:03:56,385 - Is really fun. 98 00:03:56,385 --> 00:03:59,205 So relational leadership is also tied into this concept 99 00:03:59,305 --> 00:04:02,325 of a, a narrative, having a telling stories and, 100 00:04:02,545 --> 00:04:04,485 and focusing on a narrative in leadership. 101 00:04:04,485 --> 00:04:05,885 Like maybe where's a good launching 102 00:04:05,885 --> 00:04:06,885 - Off that? 103 00:04:06,885 --> 00:04:07,605 Yeah. Yeah. Let me, let me draw the connection. 104 00:04:07,605 --> 00:04:10,725 So relational leadership is all about harnessing our 105 00:04:10,725 --> 00:04:13,645 connections as people to then go 106 00:04:13,705 --> 00:04:16,085 and do whatever change work needs to be done. 107 00:04:16,425 --> 00:04:18,885 But it's really the idea, I kind of phrase it 108 00:04:18,885 --> 00:04:20,765 as a focus on the who 109 00:04:20,945 --> 00:04:23,245 and the why as much as the what and the how. 110 00:04:23,465 --> 00:04:24,725 And I feel like in leadership development, 111 00:04:24,725 --> 00:04:25,885 there's a lot about the what and the how. 112 00:04:25,885 --> 00:04:28,965 Yeah. But you start a foundation of who am I, 113 00:04:29,185 --> 00:04:31,085 who are you, where do we connect? 114 00:04:31,665 --> 00:04:34,205 And then narrative is one of the things that we teach 115 00:04:34,705 --> 00:04:36,165 as part of that framework. Yeah. 116 00:04:36,345 --> 00:04:38,685 - So I, I see this a lot, like just my work 117 00:04:38,685 --> 00:04:41,085 with Leading Saints where people want, when they listen 118 00:04:41,085 --> 00:04:42,125 to a podcast episode 119 00:04:42,125 --> 00:04:43,645 or hear a presentation they want, like, 120 00:04:43,785 --> 00:04:44,805 no, how did you do that? 121 00:04:44,915 --> 00:04:46,805 Like, you said what? And then you did what? 122 00:04:46,805 --> 00:04:49,045 Then they want the five step plan, right? Yeah. 123 00:04:49,045 --> 00:04:51,325 Which is interesting and helpful to talk about, 124 00:04:51,385 --> 00:04:53,845 but we sort of jump into that too, too quickly. 125 00:04:54,035 --> 00:04:56,245 - Yeah. I mean, think about most meetings we go to, right? 126 00:04:56,245 --> 00:04:58,365 We just jump right into the agenda. Yeah. 127 00:04:58,745 --> 00:05:00,205 And, uh, we spend a lot of time 128 00:05:00,205 --> 00:05:02,125 and No, let's slow down check in. 129 00:05:02,125 --> 00:05:04,645 How are you? You know, where do we, where do we line up? 130 00:05:04,645 --> 00:05:07,365 What are our shared values? And then we'll get to the stuff, 131 00:05:07,865 --> 00:05:09,085 but we'll go so much further 132 00:05:09,105 --> 00:05:10,725 and faster if we've developed Yeah. 133 00:05:10,815 --> 00:05:12,125 Trust in a relationship there. 134 00:05:12,145 --> 00:05:13,685 - And this is a really difficult thing to do. 135 00:05:13,765 --> 00:05:15,885 I mean, it's easier said than done. Right? Absolutely. 136 00:05:15,885 --> 00:05:17,125 And I, and you see this like, just 137 00:05:17,125 --> 00:05:20,485 to use some more church examples of, you know, it's easy for 138 00:05:20,485 --> 00:05:22,285 that leader, like an elders quo president, be like, 139 00:05:22,285 --> 00:05:24,605 you know, we, we wanna create a ministering 140 00:05:24,605 --> 00:05:25,685 culture here, right? 141 00:05:25,825 --> 00:05:27,005 And obviously we need 142 00:05:27,005 --> 00:05:28,445 to do our ministry and everybody's assigned. 143 00:05:28,445 --> 00:05:31,005 And we sort of jump into like, now go do this thing uhhuh. 144 00:05:31,155 --> 00:05:33,765 When in reality, that leader hasn't taken the time 145 00:05:33,825 --> 00:05:36,365 to just connect that community, 146 00:05:36,365 --> 00:05:37,765 that little elders go community 147 00:05:37,765 --> 00:05:39,965 and be like, let's hear each other's stories. 148 00:05:39,965 --> 00:05:41,365 Yeah. Like, where do you come from? Right. 149 00:05:41,365 --> 00:05:43,405 Like, that's a crucial foundation 150 00:05:43,465 --> 00:05:47,005 and any leadership effort that you undertake. Yeah, 151 00:05:47,365 --> 00:05:48,365 - Absolutely. 152 00:05:48,365 --> 00:05:50,165 And we just, we blow by it so fast. Yeah, right. 153 00:05:50,165 --> 00:05:54,565 We don't take the time to do that. And so yeah, absolutely. 154 00:05:54,605 --> 00:05:57,625 A hundred percent focus on who am I as a leader, 155 00:05:58,245 --> 00:05:59,825 but then listen to all the other stories. 156 00:05:59,965 --> 00:06:02,345 And that's where we actually begin to see people Mm-Hmm. 157 00:06:02,385 --> 00:06:04,505 like, oh, I, I actually know you now in 158 00:06:04,505 --> 00:06:05,985 a different way than I did before. Yeah. 159 00:06:06,525 --> 00:06:08,585 - So where's the next step in, 160 00:06:08,585 --> 00:06:10,425 in this relational leadership? 161 00:06:10,425 --> 00:06:11,465 Or like, how do we begin 162 00:06:11,465 --> 00:06:13,425 to do this thing is sometimes difficult. 163 00:06:13,855 --> 00:06:17,585 - Yeah. So we talk a lot about, we have to raise our level 164 00:06:17,585 --> 00:06:20,505 of awareness so that we act with more intentionality. 165 00:06:20,865 --> 00:06:22,185 Hmm. So that's not rocket science, 166 00:06:22,245 --> 00:06:25,265 but as we become more self-aware, as we become more aware 167 00:06:25,265 --> 00:06:27,585 of people around us, then we can decide is my knee jerk 168 00:06:27,825 --> 00:06:28,865 reaction the right thing? 169 00:06:29,445 --> 00:06:30,705 Or do I need to slow down and, 170 00:06:30,705 --> 00:06:33,265 and really think, so I think a lot of it is just about 171 00:06:34,155 --> 00:06:35,545 where are we being intentional 172 00:06:36,005 --> 00:06:38,745 to create the spaces we need to do this type of work? 173 00:06:39,225 --> 00:06:41,545 Hmm. Right. Do we need to get to the others quorum lesson, 174 00:06:41,605 --> 00:06:42,745 or do we need to stop 175 00:06:43,245 --> 00:06:46,665 and take 20, 30, maybe the whole hour and do this work? 176 00:06:46,725 --> 00:06:48,985 We need to make the container instead 177 00:06:48,985 --> 00:06:51,185 of just moving through the motions. Yeah. Like 178 00:06:51,425 --> 00:06:52,425 - Normally. 179 00:06:52,425 --> 00:06:53,825 So, so how do you increase awareness? 180 00:06:54,145 --> 00:06:55,305 I mean, and it seems like, 181 00:06:55,895 --> 00:06:57,625 like on paper it makes so much sense, right? 182 00:06:57,685 --> 00:07:00,465 But sometimes in practice it's, it's nuanced. 183 00:07:00,805 --> 00:07:01,905 So how do, how do you do that? 184 00:07:02,215 --> 00:07:05,065 - Yeah. I mean, I think first it's self-awareness, right? 185 00:07:05,065 --> 00:07:07,705 It's me like, what do I care about? What am I good at? 186 00:07:07,825 --> 00:07:09,545 I mean, so many episodes and, 187 00:07:09,685 --> 00:07:10,905 and different tools out there, right? 188 00:07:10,905 --> 00:07:13,065 Maybe you wanna do StrengthsFinder, maybe you wanna do, 189 00:07:13,525 --> 00:07:15,105 we use one called Five Dynamics, 190 00:07:15,645 --> 00:07:17,985 but it's, you know, how do I normally operate? 191 00:07:18,205 --> 00:07:20,585 And once I know that, then I can start 192 00:07:20,585 --> 00:07:21,785 to think, well, how do you operate? 193 00:07:21,785 --> 00:07:23,465 Right? How does Kerr operate different than Kyle? 194 00:07:23,885 --> 00:07:25,145 And how do we blend that together? 195 00:07:25,645 --> 00:07:26,785 And stories one way to do that. 196 00:07:26,785 --> 00:07:28,465 But there's lots of other ways Yeah. 197 00:07:28,465 --> 00:07:31,345 - Because there are these more technical assessments, right? 198 00:07:31,345 --> 00:07:33,625 Yeah. And, you know, I love Strength Finders 199 00:07:33,625 --> 00:07:35,105 and there's several others that, 200 00:07:35,445 --> 00:07:36,785 and I'm just thinking in a church context. 201 00:07:37,065 --> 00:07:38,825 I mean, maybe you don't, you know, force everybody 202 00:07:38,825 --> 00:07:39,825 to take strengths finders, 203 00:07:39,825 --> 00:07:42,265 and you put the results on the, on the walls and you, 204 00:07:42,485 --> 00:07:45,545 but, uh, nonetheless, you know, if, if you have some type of 205 00:07:46,135 --> 00:07:48,225 measuring stick that way, again, 206 00:07:48,225 --> 00:07:49,745 just sort of see what comes to the surface. 207 00:07:49,765 --> 00:07:51,825 Mm-Hmm. , whether it's super scientific or not. 208 00:07:51,855 --> 00:07:53,145 Yeah. So it's a starting point, 209 00:07:53,145 --> 00:07:54,145 - Right? 210 00:07:54,145 --> 00:07:55,225 Yeah. And it might be different, like in a presidency, 211 00:07:55,705 --> 00:07:58,105 I might advocate that maybe we do use a tool. 212 00:07:58,105 --> 00:07:59,065 Mm-Hmm. . Right. Maybe we do 213 00:07:59,265 --> 00:07:59,785 actually take the time. 214 00:08:00,265 --> 00:08:01,425 'cause we're gonna work closely together 215 00:08:01,425 --> 00:08:03,905 for a very long time, but in a bigger context. 216 00:08:04,375 --> 00:08:05,825 Yeah. It can be more simple. Yeah. 217 00:08:05,825 --> 00:08:08,625 - Right. And imagine you just having, again, 218 00:08:08,625 --> 00:08:10,145 not jumping into the agenda too quickly, 219 00:08:10,245 --> 00:08:12,945 but having more of a conversational, 220 00:08:12,945 --> 00:08:14,145 like how do you handle things? 221 00:08:14,145 --> 00:08:16,425 Like how do you prefer this meeting go? Mm-Hmm. 222 00:08:16,465 --> 00:08:18,465 , what's a bad meeting look like to you? 223 00:08:18,465 --> 00:08:19,665 What's a positive one look like 224 00:08:19,665 --> 00:08:20,665 - To you? 225 00:08:20,665 --> 00:08:21,625 Yeah. You know? Yeah. One thing that we talk a lot about is 226 00:08:21,965 --> 00:08:25,225 we don't tend to understand each other's work styles. 227 00:08:25,225 --> 00:08:26,905 Mm-Hmm. , right? Everybody approaches work 228 00:08:26,925 --> 00:08:28,305 and collaboration in a different way. 229 00:08:28,925 --> 00:08:30,425 And people get really frustrated by that. 230 00:08:30,445 --> 00:08:32,705 But that's because we haven't had the conversations to start 231 00:08:32,705 --> 00:08:34,745 to be like, well, what do you like to do? 232 00:08:34,895 --> 00:08:36,185 Like, which aspects do you like to do? 233 00:08:36,185 --> 00:08:37,585 Do you like the budget or do you not? 234 00:08:37,885 --> 00:08:39,225 Or like, I get the budget, that's my thing. 235 00:08:39,245 --> 00:08:41,065 I'm like, I can do the budget , you know, 236 00:08:41,245 --> 00:08:42,745 do you like to go out and talk to people? 237 00:08:42,855 --> 00:08:46,115 Does that energize you? Yeah. Or does it deplete you? 238 00:08:46,115 --> 00:08:48,155 And so even just those simple conversations of like, 239 00:08:48,415 --> 00:08:50,995 how do you approach your work, but do it in an intentional 240 00:08:50,995 --> 00:08:53,195 way, then you start to understand, oh, I know how so 241 00:08:53,195 --> 00:08:54,275 and so operates and yeah. 242 00:08:54,495 --> 00:08:56,525 You can start to figure out how to work better 243 00:08:56,685 --> 00:08:57,685 - Together. 244 00:08:57,685 --> 00:08:58,885 Yeah. And then that you have that organizational culture 245 00:08:58,915 --> 00:09:00,565 that sort of lays on top of everything. 246 00:09:00,625 --> 00:09:02,885 So, you know, you think of brand new bishop 247 00:09:03,145 --> 00:09:04,485 and a bishop Rick's like, 248 00:09:04,505 --> 00:09:05,685 Hey, we're supposed to have Ward council. 249 00:09:05,825 --> 00:09:07,845 And, and you naturally go into a room, 250 00:09:07,935 --> 00:09:09,645 maybe it's the Bishop's office, maybe it's another one. 251 00:09:09,645 --> 00:09:11,085 You sit in a circle. Yeah. 252 00:09:11,095 --> 00:09:12,245 Maybe you just go around the room 253 00:09:12,265 --> 00:09:13,885 and see, you know, so there's these, 254 00:09:14,265 --> 00:09:16,405 we just assume there's a way to do it when in reality, 255 00:09:17,025 --> 00:09:19,245 you know, for me, that's not a great meeting for me 256 00:09:19,245 --> 00:09:21,485 to be in, but a more casual, like, 257 00:09:21,485 --> 00:09:23,205 if I'm out visiting people 258 00:09:23,225 --> 00:09:25,005 and we're having casual conversations, 259 00:09:25,595 --> 00:09:27,085 that actually helps me process things. 260 00:09:27,145 --> 00:09:28,605 Mm-Hmm. a little bit differently. Right. 261 00:09:28,625 --> 00:09:30,485 So again, assuming nothing Yeah. 262 00:09:30,505 --> 00:09:32,925 And trying to recognize what those 263 00:09:33,885 --> 00:09:36,405 cultural norms are just on how we do things. Yeah. 264 00:09:36,705 --> 00:09:38,165 - And taking the time to check in. Right. 265 00:09:38,185 --> 00:09:40,005 So you're an award council. What if you get a new 266 00:09:40,095 --> 00:09:41,125 young women's president? 267 00:09:41,125 --> 00:09:42,965 Mm-Hmm. . Do you do any sort of like, 268 00:09:43,345 --> 00:09:45,605 on onboarding, this is what we do, let's, you know, like, 269 00:09:45,705 --> 00:09:47,565 or you just like, put the cog in the wheel 270 00:09:47,565 --> 00:09:48,565 and keep it spinning, you know? 271 00:09:48,585 --> 00:09:51,125 So I think that's the leadership part is let's say, Hey, 272 00:09:51,125 --> 00:09:53,605 let's slow down, let's make sure we're all good. 273 00:09:53,795 --> 00:09:55,205 Yeah. Right. We're all on the same page. 274 00:09:55,225 --> 00:09:57,525 We understand each other, we see each other. Yeah. 275 00:09:57,785 --> 00:10:00,005 And then ward count is gonna go better. Yeah. 276 00:10:00,055 --> 00:10:01,125 Right. We're gonna understand. 277 00:10:01,345 --> 00:10:03,445 - So just finding some way to process as far 278 00:10:03,445 --> 00:10:04,485 as the, uh, the awareness. 279 00:10:04,545 --> 00:10:06,045 How can we get more self-aware? 280 00:10:06,545 --> 00:10:08,085 And you almost, I mean, 281 00:10:08,155 --> 00:10:09,845 there's always something to learn, right? 282 00:10:09,845 --> 00:10:11,885 And so you can't maybe spend too much time 283 00:10:12,155 --> 00:10:13,485 with awareness, but anything else you 284 00:10:13,485 --> 00:10:14,565 would add? Just concept. 285 00:10:14,565 --> 00:10:16,085 - No. I mean, you could nerd out forever, right? 286 00:10:16,325 --> 00:10:17,645 , and I think it's me. 287 00:10:17,645 --> 00:10:20,525 I'll take every assessment you throw at me, your, you know, 288 00:10:20,525 --> 00:10:21,925 average person probably doesn't wanna do that. 289 00:10:22,025 --> 00:10:23,965 But just taking some time to reflect 290 00:10:24,065 --> 00:10:25,605 and who am I, what do I value? 291 00:10:25,605 --> 00:10:27,845 What am I good at? Where are my weaknesses? 292 00:10:28,115 --> 00:10:30,085 Just be really in touch with that. Mm-Hmm. . 293 00:10:30,105 --> 00:10:32,605 And then bring that into the leadership spaces, 294 00:10:32,605 --> 00:10:35,205 whether it's church or work or whatever it happens 295 00:10:35,205 --> 00:10:36,205 - To be. 296 00:10:36,205 --> 00:10:37,085 Yeah. Any other examples come to mind? 297 00:10:37,575 --> 00:10:40,685 Maybe whether in your, in the med healthcare world 298 00:10:40,785 --> 00:10:42,165 or in the church world? 299 00:10:42,635 --> 00:10:44,445 - Well, I mean, we talk about this a lot. 300 00:10:44,655 --> 00:10:46,485 Healthcare is delivered by teams. 301 00:10:46,935 --> 00:10:50,165 Might have a physician, a nurse practitioner, pa a nurse, 302 00:10:50,505 --> 00:10:51,965 social worker, care manager. 303 00:10:52,345 --> 00:10:54,965 And we like to like, throw everybody into a room 304 00:10:55,305 --> 00:10:58,565 and pretend like we're operating as a team . 305 00:10:59,025 --> 00:11:00,925 And it doesn't work like that. Right? 306 00:11:00,955 --> 00:11:03,885 Like that intentionality. But am I aware of that? 307 00:11:04,025 --> 00:11:06,725 Am I aware of so and so likes to work this way? 308 00:11:06,755 --> 00:11:09,965 Like, I, I learned early on when I was working with doctors, 309 00:11:10,285 --> 00:11:12,365 I had to figure out like, what's their style, 310 00:11:12,515 --> 00:11:14,765 because I'd come with a recommendation or an idea, 311 00:11:14,765 --> 00:11:17,045 or maybe a correction of some sort. 312 00:11:17,045 --> 00:11:19,365 And I had to figure out like, how do I place that? 313 00:11:19,425 --> 00:11:20,805 How do I frame it? Yeah. 314 00:11:20,985 --> 00:11:23,885 In their style and their language so that it'll go well. 315 00:11:24,305 --> 00:11:26,285 And we might do that at church too, right? 316 00:11:26,625 --> 00:11:28,445 How do I talk to my bishop? 317 00:11:28,585 --> 00:11:30,125 How do I talk to my relief society president? 318 00:11:30,125 --> 00:11:33,125 How do I, you know, how do I work on making things better? 319 00:11:33,385 --> 00:11:34,445 But do it in a way that's 320 00:11:34,445 --> 00:11:35,645 gonna resonate with that person. Yeah. 321 00:11:36,065 --> 00:11:37,325 - I'm just thinking of the individual. 322 00:11:37,845 --> 00:11:38,965 'cause there's many doctors who are up, 323 00:11:38,965 --> 00:11:40,445 but are bishops, you know, 324 00:11:40,445 --> 00:11:42,005 the person who's like listening to this. 325 00:11:42,005 --> 00:11:44,405 Like, they feel like if I'm not, I would love 326 00:11:44,405 --> 00:11:46,885 to create more awareness in the team I'm working 327 00:11:46,885 --> 00:11:48,765 with in the word council or the presidency, 328 00:11:49,145 --> 00:11:50,765 but I'm not necessarily one in charge. 329 00:11:51,235 --> 00:11:53,845 Yeah. And the bishop sort of has his agenda, 330 00:11:53,945 --> 00:11:55,685 or president is headed this way 331 00:11:55,865 --> 00:11:59,245 and she's headed down that track full bore, 332 00:11:59,245 --> 00:12:00,285 and there's no stopping her. 333 00:12:00,285 --> 00:12:03,605 Right. And so what, any, any thoughts on how we do that? 334 00:12:03,715 --> 00:12:06,365 - Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've spent most of my time in 335 00:12:06,365 --> 00:12:08,165 what I little l leadership, right? 336 00:12:08,165 --> 00:12:10,005 Where you're not the one in charge Mm-Hmm. . 337 00:12:10,425 --> 00:12:11,525 And so it is a little trickier. 338 00:12:11,605 --> 00:12:12,845 You have to be a little more subtle, 339 00:12:12,945 --> 00:12:15,085 but I, I often think it's, you know, Hey, 340 00:12:15,125 --> 00:12:17,485 I just learned this thing, can I share it with you? 341 00:12:17,865 --> 00:12:19,005 And then maybe we could do it. 342 00:12:19,005 --> 00:12:21,925 Like, I feel like this is my role right now in my calling is 343 00:12:22,005 --> 00:12:24,525 I have an idea, but I'm not in charge. 344 00:12:25,025 --> 00:12:27,085 But, you know, is there a space to share that idea? 345 00:12:27,665 --> 00:12:29,405 And maybe it's not in the middle of board council. 346 00:12:29,405 --> 00:12:31,205 Maybe it's a quick hallway chat. 347 00:12:31,205 --> 00:12:33,845 Like, Hey, maybe the word council would benefit from Mm-Hmm. 348 00:12:33,885 --> 00:12:36,085 this, or it's a little more subtle. 349 00:12:36,545 --> 00:12:39,605 But I feel like most people will appreciate ideas 350 00:12:40,195 --> 00:12:42,845 when they're presented in a way that it's not threatening, 351 00:12:42,955 --> 00:12:44,165 it's not telling someone how to do their job. 352 00:12:44,165 --> 00:12:47,645 It's just, Hey, I, I wonder about this. Yeah. Right. 353 00:12:47,645 --> 00:12:48,605 And I would do that all the time 354 00:12:48,605 --> 00:12:49,685 in a, in a clinical setting. 355 00:12:49,785 --> 00:12:52,085 Hey, I wonder, I wonder if we might try a drug like this. 356 00:12:52,105 --> 00:12:54,005 If the patient would, it would go better for the patient. 357 00:12:54,385 --> 00:12:55,965 And that's all better than like, Hey, 358 00:12:56,065 --> 00:12:57,565 you're really screwing this up 359 00:12:57,625 --> 00:12:58,845 and , you know, you should 360 00:12:58,845 --> 00:13:00,005 really change how you're approaching this. 361 00:13:00,105 --> 00:13:01,205 So, yeah. Yeah. 362 00:13:01,405 --> 00:13:03,845 I I think we have to be a little courageous in those little 363 00:13:03,865 --> 00:13:06,645 leader moments, but I think we can do that 364 00:13:06,705 --> 00:13:08,725 and we can find a way to be thoughtful 365 00:13:08,725 --> 00:13:11,405 and tactful and Right. Appeal to that person. 366 00:13:11,825 --> 00:13:13,605 - And I think it just takes, you know, 367 00:13:13,605 --> 00:13:15,245 just the tough conversations at times. 368 00:13:15,315 --> 00:13:17,565 Like, if you have a leader that doesn't seem, 369 00:13:18,065 --> 00:13:20,325 who quickly dismisses your feedback, sometimes, like, 370 00:13:20,325 --> 00:13:21,765 you know, we have a need, have a conversation. 371 00:13:22,165 --> 00:13:24,725 I feel like whenever I give feedback, it's dismissed. 372 00:13:24,725 --> 00:13:26,405 Do you want feedback from me? Yeah. 373 00:13:26,465 --> 00:13:28,045 You just want me to go along to get along? 374 00:13:28,395 --> 00:13:30,605 Like, 'cause that may not work for me. , if, you 375 00:13:30,605 --> 00:13:31,605 - Know. 376 00:13:31,605 --> 00:13:33,285 Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I think finding ways 377 00:13:33,345 --> 00:13:36,405 to have tough conversations, brave conversations. 378 00:13:36,765 --> 00:13:39,405 I think the other approach is go find your early adopters. 379 00:13:39,805 --> 00:13:43,725 Hmm. Right. Who else are you noticing might be on board or, 380 00:13:44,065 --> 00:13:45,965 and it's not that you're ganging up, right. 381 00:13:45,985 --> 00:13:48,365 But you're building that little coalition to say, Hey, 382 00:13:48,365 --> 00:13:49,725 we want to do something a little different. 383 00:13:50,185 --> 00:13:52,725 And that's a lot harder to say no to than, you know, 384 00:13:52,945 --> 00:13:54,245 one person just throwing out an idea. 385 00:13:54,315 --> 00:13:55,645 - Yeah. All right. So awareness. 386 00:13:55,645 --> 00:13:59,405 Where do we go next with the relational leadership concept? 387 00:13:59,405 --> 00:14:01,445 - Yeah. I mean, I think the genesis of, 388 00:14:01,745 --> 00:14:03,285 of my thoughts here was, 389 00:14:03,965 --> 00:14:05,805 I think maybe you were doing the podcast on 390 00:14:06,505 --> 00:14:08,045 men in the church, 391 00:14:08,505 --> 00:14:09,885 - Men in El Quo in - Elko. 392 00:14:10,025 --> 00:14:12,125 And we were, we were talking about stories. Mm-Hmm. 393 00:14:12,165 --> 00:14:14,085 and I, I was sitting there, 394 00:14:14,085 --> 00:14:15,325 I was out on a walk and I was listening, 395 00:14:15,325 --> 00:14:17,525 and I thought, well, we do a lot of work around stories, 396 00:14:18,065 --> 00:14:20,365 but how do you, how do you operationalize it? 397 00:14:20,395 --> 00:14:22,285 Yeah. Yeah. So my wife gives me grief all the time. 398 00:14:22,335 --> 00:14:24,445 She's like, you can't go around telling people 399 00:14:24,445 --> 00:14:25,805 that you're like a story. 400 00:14:26,555 --> 00:14:28,085 Like they're not gonna get it. 401 00:14:28,505 --> 00:14:30,365 But it's, you know, there's, there's kind 402 00:14:30,365 --> 00:14:31,725 of simple ways to share your story. 403 00:14:31,725 --> 00:14:33,205 There's some frameworks you can use. 404 00:14:33,505 --> 00:14:35,525 And I was just thinking about the poor elders corn president 405 00:14:35,525 --> 00:14:36,725 listening to the podcast thinking 406 00:14:37,145 --> 00:14:38,325 he wants me to tell stories. 407 00:14:38,435 --> 00:14:40,645 Yeah. It sounds like a good idea to build culture 408 00:14:40,705 --> 00:14:41,885 and connection and community. 409 00:14:42,345 --> 00:14:43,645 But like, how do I 410 00:14:43,645 --> 00:14:44,645 - Do that? 411 00:14:44,645 --> 00:14:46,125 Or they're thinking, I think we just gotta get 412 00:14:46,125 --> 00:14:47,125 to the general conference talk. 413 00:14:47,125 --> 00:14:48,445 Right, exactly. That's why we're here. 414 00:14:48,825 --> 00:14:49,965 That's what the men are expecting. 415 00:14:49,965 --> 00:14:52,125 And you want me to have them tell stories? 416 00:14:52,125 --> 00:14:53,565 Like, yeah, that kinda seems weird 417 00:14:53,595 --> 00:14:54,925 - Cognitive disconnect there, right? 418 00:14:54,925 --> 00:14:55,845 Yeah. Yeah. Like, I'm not sure what, 419 00:14:55,845 --> 00:14:56,405 what they're talking about. 420 00:14:56,705 --> 00:14:59,845 So my thought was to maybe share a framework we use Cool. 421 00:14:59,845 --> 00:15:02,165 In relational leadership. Love it. Does that sound okay? 422 00:15:02,165 --> 00:15:05,605 Yeah. Okay. So credit where credit's due, this, uh, 423 00:15:06,045 --> 00:15:08,885 actually has its root in community organizing, which is an, 424 00:15:09,205 --> 00:15:10,885 I think an avenue or a arena 425 00:15:10,885 --> 00:15:12,565 that we spend much time in. But it's 426 00:15:12,565 --> 00:15:13,845 - Because that's more like a political 427 00:15:13,845 --> 00:15:15,045 community or Yeah, yeah. 428 00:15:15,055 --> 00:15:17,285 - Right. Your traditional, like, you know, 429 00:15:17,425 --> 00:15:19,845 picket line, you know, make change. 430 00:15:20,385 --> 00:15:22,125 But it actually has its genesis, uh, 431 00:15:22,125 --> 00:15:23,325 with someone named Marshall Gantz. 432 00:15:23,325 --> 00:15:27,485 He's a Harvard professor, and he, our work is 433 00:15:27,485 --> 00:15:29,125 with someone named, uh, Matt Lewis. 434 00:15:29,545 --> 00:15:31,725 He actually has a PhD in storytelling. I give him 435 00:15:31,845 --> 00:15:32,365 - A hard time. No way. 436 00:15:32,365 --> 00:15:33,765 - That's a thing. Yeah. I know. He's, you know, 437 00:15:33,905 --> 00:15:35,125 - I'm going back to - Schoolly. 438 00:15:35,125 --> 00:15:35,885 I think it's, uh, what is he called? 439 00:15:35,995 --> 00:15:37,685 It's cultural ethnography. 440 00:15:37,875 --> 00:15:40,125 Okay. But we like to say it's a PhD in storytelling, 441 00:15:40,705 --> 00:15:42,645 but we have a framework called narrative leadership. 442 00:15:43,185 --> 00:15:47,165 And it's, uh, three parts story of self. Who am I? 443 00:15:47,825 --> 00:15:49,245 Why am I called as a leader? 444 00:15:49,885 --> 00:15:51,965 A story of us, what are our shared values? 445 00:15:52,235 --> 00:15:53,885 What makes us a group? 446 00:15:54,305 --> 00:15:57,325 And then the story of now is what's the action? 447 00:15:57,325 --> 00:15:59,965 What's the change? But we spend a lot of time in story 448 00:15:59,965 --> 00:16:03,045 of self, which is, why am I called as a leader? 449 00:16:03,195 --> 00:16:05,485 What do I care about? How do I show up? 450 00:16:05,985 --> 00:16:08,405 And it has a really easy framework to it. 451 00:16:08,755 --> 00:16:11,285 It's challenge, choice, outcome. 452 00:16:11,625 --> 00:16:14,485 So what's a challenge I faced, a choice I made, 453 00:16:14,985 --> 00:16:16,205 and then an outcome. 454 00:16:16,475 --> 00:16:20,005 - Love it. - Which is kind of the narrative arc 455 00:16:20,065 --> 00:16:21,845 of most stories. 456 00:16:22,075 --> 00:16:24,245 Yeah. So if you think about like most movies 457 00:16:24,945 --> 00:16:26,325 or good books, right? 458 00:16:26,475 --> 00:16:29,205 It's protagonist faces some daunting challenge, 459 00:16:29,895 --> 00:16:31,245 makes a difficult choice, 460 00:16:31,465 --> 00:16:33,605 and then, you know, lives happily ever after. 461 00:16:33,795 --> 00:16:35,925 Yeah. But it's how do we, you know, how do we bring 462 00:16:35,925 --> 00:16:37,085 that into us Right. 463 00:16:37,105 --> 00:16:38,685 Our own story of self. 464 00:16:38,915 --> 00:16:41,485 - Yeah. And that's, 'cause I think a lot of, a lot 465 00:16:41,485 --> 00:16:44,645 of leaders may hear like, oh, you should share your story. 466 00:16:44,705 --> 00:16:47,645 And most people are like, well, I don't really have a story 467 00:16:47,705 --> 00:16:48,885 and I'm just listen to, like, 468 00:16:49,145 --> 00:16:50,365 the stake president just asked me 469 00:16:50,365 --> 00:16:51,405 to do this thing, this calling. 470 00:16:51,585 --> 00:16:53,165 So I'm doing it like I'm not . Yeah. 471 00:16:53,235 --> 00:16:55,805 Like, there's nothing Yep. Dramatic behind it. Right. 472 00:16:56,145 --> 00:16:57,845 But to then frame it like, well, 473 00:16:57,845 --> 00:16:59,685 what challenges have you faced in life? 474 00:16:59,905 --> 00:17:01,405 And what choices that lead to? 475 00:17:01,425 --> 00:17:03,565 And then where are you at now? Or where did that lead you? 476 00:17:03,675 --> 00:17:04,925 - Well, if you think about it, we read 477 00:17:04,925 --> 00:17:07,085 ourselves into stories that way. Oh, yeah. Right. When 478 00:17:07,455 --> 00:17:08,455 - We're the protagonist. 479 00:17:08,455 --> 00:17:11,085 - Yeah. Like when Luke Skywalker is having a problem. Right. 480 00:17:11,085 --> 00:17:12,485 Like, we are now in that, or 481 00:17:12,585 --> 00:17:13,885 - We all face Darth Vaders in life. 482 00:17:13,885 --> 00:17:15,805 Exactly. And sometimes they're our dad. Yeah. 483 00:17:16,205 --> 00:17:19,765 - . And the the scriptures are full of it too. Right. 484 00:17:19,795 --> 00:17:22,045 Yeah. I was thinking a little bit about this, like, 485 00:17:22,535 --> 00:17:24,085 Nephi, go get the plates. 486 00:17:24,545 --> 00:17:26,005 Oh, layman won't give you the plates. 487 00:17:26,115 --> 00:17:27,685 Like, that's a problem. Yeah. 488 00:17:28,185 --> 00:17:29,565 I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna try again. 489 00:17:29,785 --> 00:17:31,125 And then, you know, the outcome. 490 00:17:31,145 --> 00:17:33,685 And we just see it over and over again in the scriptures. 491 00:17:33,745 --> 00:17:36,005 And so it just provides, I like 492 00:17:36,005 --> 00:17:37,445 to think it's a pretty simple way for us 493 00:17:37,825 --> 00:17:39,765 to just try it out, you know? 494 00:17:39,765 --> 00:17:41,125 And Mm-Hmm. , okay. What's a 495 00:17:41,125 --> 00:17:42,165 challenge I faced in my life? 496 00:17:42,395 --> 00:17:43,525 What choice did I make because 497 00:17:43,525 --> 00:17:44,605 of it? And then what happened? 498 00:17:44,875 --> 00:17:46,205 - Yeah. - It works pretty well. 499 00:17:46,385 --> 00:17:48,725 - So don't let me take you too far in your outline here. 500 00:17:48,725 --> 00:17:50,525 But so what does this look like in practice? 501 00:17:50,635 --> 00:17:53,205 Like you're, you're gathering maybe an elder's quo together 502 00:17:53,305 --> 00:17:55,405 and saying, everybody think of a challenge 503 00:17:55,405 --> 00:17:56,765 and share it with your neighbor, or like 504 00:17:57,075 --> 00:17:59,085 - Yeah, I think, I think this is kind 505 00:17:59,085 --> 00:18:02,045 of awkward if you just try and like leap into it. 506 00:18:02,045 --> 00:18:04,125 So you do have to lay the groundwork just a little bit. 507 00:18:04,625 --> 00:18:05,725 And I don't think you always have 508 00:18:05,725 --> 00:18:07,485 to like lay out the framework 509 00:18:08,145 --> 00:18:10,205 and it's very countercultural, like you said, 510 00:18:10,525 --> 00:18:11,765 everyone's gonna show up and they're gonna be like, 511 00:18:11,945 --> 00:18:13,085 so what's the lesson? 512 00:18:13,185 --> 00:18:14,205 Mm-Hmm. . And you're like, 513 00:18:14,205 --> 00:18:15,685 we've actually thrown the lesson out today, 514 00:18:15,685 --> 00:18:17,165 and we're gonna tell stories. 515 00:18:17,195 --> 00:18:18,925 Like that is not gonna Yeah. 516 00:18:18,925 --> 00:18:20,125 That's gonna feel funny. Right. And 517 00:18:20,125 --> 00:18:21,165 - This is the, this is a tough thing, 518 00:18:21,165 --> 00:18:22,725 and it's not just with this concept, 519 00:18:22,865 --> 00:18:25,245 but just in general, we've trained our culture 520 00:18:25,275 --> 00:18:26,445 that when you go to church, 521 00:18:26,595 --> 00:18:29,285 like when I walk into a Sunday school class, I'm sort 522 00:18:29,285 --> 00:18:31,325 of trained to be in a beta state where I'm just like, 523 00:18:31,625 --> 00:18:32,925 I'm gonna passively listen. 524 00:18:33,015 --> 00:18:36,845 Maybe I'll share a comment. Yeah. But my default state is 525 00:18:36,915 --> 00:18:38,005 - Beta. It's like receive, 526 00:18:38,065 --> 00:18:39,645 - Rather than being like an alpha, like, 527 00:18:39,645 --> 00:18:40,725 oh, hey, I'm gonna be involved here. 528 00:18:40,725 --> 00:18:44,125 And so whether it's a leader, a teacher, they have to 529 00:18:44,675 --> 00:18:47,165 coax them outta that state, that passive state 530 00:18:47,165 --> 00:18:49,405 and say, no, this is a different experience 531 00:18:49,425 --> 00:18:50,925 and it's, everybody's gonna be safe. 532 00:18:51,145 --> 00:18:53,405 You know? Yeah. Walk with me here as we do this. Right? 533 00:18:53,405 --> 00:18:55,765 - Yeah. And I often will just give people the warning, like, 534 00:18:55,765 --> 00:18:57,925 warning, something different is about to happen. 535 00:18:57,935 --> 00:18:59,925 Uhhuh. Like, I think about national conferences, 536 00:18:59,925 --> 00:19:01,405 and most people like pull out their laptop 537 00:19:01,405 --> 00:19:02,885 and they're kind of passively listening. 538 00:19:03,045 --> 00:19:05,645 Uhhuh, . I usually start my talks of like, just 539 00:19:05,645 --> 00:19:08,085 so you know, you're not gonna be able to do that today. 540 00:19:08,085 --> 00:19:09,565 Mm-Hmm. like, today it's gonna be active. 541 00:19:09,655 --> 00:19:11,085 We're gonna ask you to do something. 542 00:19:11,505 --> 00:19:13,685 You're gonna be a little uncomfortable. Right. 543 00:19:13,685 --> 00:19:15,485 We're gonna try and stretch you just a little bit. 544 00:19:15,825 --> 00:19:18,085 And that at least puts everyone's, you know, 545 00:19:18,085 --> 00:19:19,125 like their signals go up. 546 00:19:19,125 --> 00:19:21,365 They start paying attention. And so I think 547 00:19:21,875 --> 00:19:23,445 when you're thinking about culture change, 548 00:19:23,445 --> 00:19:25,805 and I was pondering on this as I was listening, 549 00:19:26,305 --> 00:19:27,485 you do have to stick with it. 550 00:19:27,705 --> 00:19:29,885 You have to just plan that. It's gonna be awkward. Mm-Hmm. 551 00:19:29,925 --> 00:19:31,445 , you'll probably fumble once or twice, 552 00:19:32,025 --> 00:19:34,165 and it's gonna require just a little bit 553 00:19:34,165 --> 00:19:36,045 of persistence to make sure it happens. 554 00:19:36,275 --> 00:19:39,205 - Yeah. Awesome. Where do we go next? Well, 555 00:19:39,465 --> 00:19:41,765 - We could talk specifically 556 00:19:42,305 --> 00:19:43,965 around a little more around the framework or, 557 00:19:44,075 --> 00:19:45,075 - Yeah, yeah. 558 00:19:45,075 --> 00:19:46,485 So with, well, let me ask what these narratives, 559 00:19:46,945 --> 00:19:49,645 or as you're, you're teasing out everybody's story, 560 00:19:50,145 --> 00:19:54,285 is this something that should be like 30 minute activity? 561 00:19:54,285 --> 00:19:55,285 Yeah. Obviously there's different ways 562 00:19:55,285 --> 00:19:56,725 to do it maybe, but Yeah. 563 00:19:56,915 --> 00:19:59,365 - Yeah. Maybe some basic principles. Right? Okay. 564 00:19:59,795 --> 00:20:02,925 When we do this, it's generally a two to three minute story. 565 00:20:03,465 --> 00:20:05,245 And we do that because one, 566 00:20:05,245 --> 00:20:07,005 people aren't gonna pay attention for very long. 567 00:20:07,005 --> 00:20:09,005 Mm-Hmm. two, it encourages you 568 00:20:09,005 --> 00:20:10,165 to actually like, get to the point. 569 00:20:10,625 --> 00:20:12,885 And usually these stories are like a snapshot. 570 00:20:13,155 --> 00:20:14,245 Like it's a moment in time. 571 00:20:14,315 --> 00:20:16,085 It's not, oh, then I did this, 572 00:20:16,105 --> 00:20:17,485 and two years later I did this. 573 00:20:17,545 --> 00:20:19,485 And you know, like, we're not given the history. 574 00:20:19,535 --> 00:20:21,645 We're, we're trying to pull people into a moment 575 00:20:21,835 --> 00:20:22,965 that was important for us. 576 00:20:23,465 --> 00:20:25,285 And I like to, to kind of rightsize it. 577 00:20:25,475 --> 00:20:26,925 It's not, you know, 578 00:20:26,995 --> 00:20:29,925 Matt will always say it's not big C challenge always. 579 00:20:29,945 --> 00:20:31,885 It doesn't have to be like your deepest, darkest, 580 00:20:32,115 --> 00:20:33,645 biggest challenge you've ever faced. 581 00:20:33,645 --> 00:20:36,805 Because the setting might not be right for that. Yeah. 582 00:20:36,805 --> 00:20:39,005 There might not be enough safety in an elder's quorum 583 00:20:39,005 --> 00:20:42,045 or a belief society to have everybody just like 584 00:20:42,475 --> 00:20:43,725 dive into their deepest moments. 585 00:20:43,825 --> 00:20:45,525 But what's a little c What was 586 00:20:45,525 --> 00:20:46,645 like a little thing that was hard? 587 00:20:47,185 --> 00:20:49,805 And go there. And so as people are thinking, 588 00:20:49,905 --> 00:20:51,485 you know, what can I share? 589 00:20:52,025 --> 00:20:53,685 It can be really simple. It can be something 590 00:20:53,685 --> 00:20:54,925 that was a little tricky, 591 00:20:55,065 --> 00:20:56,565 but you, you made your way through it. 592 00:20:56,955 --> 00:20:59,165 - Yeah. And, and there's so many opportunities, 593 00:20:59,165 --> 00:21:01,725 maybe framed a certain way of like, take a lot 594 00:21:01,725 --> 00:21:04,245 of the people back to their mission or as Yeah. 595 00:21:04,465 --> 00:21:06,125 As it being a youth in the church. 596 00:21:06,275 --> 00:21:07,925 Like when, when was that moment? 597 00:21:08,115 --> 00:21:10,605 Because you're want, you're wanting a moment you're not 598 00:21:10,605 --> 00:21:11,805 wanting Yeah. 599 00:21:11,955 --> 00:21:14,045 Life was tough in the first six months of my mission. 600 00:21:14,155 --> 00:21:16,885 Like, no, what was the moment that was tough. Yeah. 601 00:21:16,885 --> 00:21:19,085 You know, where were you? What was the setup? 602 00:21:19,315 --> 00:21:22,405 - Yeah. And the big part is, is you know, stories a way 603 00:21:22,405 --> 00:21:24,565 that we share our values without 604 00:21:24,565 --> 00:21:25,805 telling people what we value. 605 00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:27,485 'cause you might sit down and say, you know, 606 00:21:27,485 --> 00:21:30,845 I value hard work and family and yada yada yada. 607 00:21:30,845 --> 00:21:33,085 And you, and people are like, okay, yeah. 608 00:21:33,345 --> 00:21:36,045 - Who doesn't, - Whatever. But when you tell a story 609 00:21:36,625 --> 00:21:37,805 and you say, lemme tell you about the 610 00:21:37,805 --> 00:21:38,885 time that I struggle as a dad. 611 00:21:38,905 --> 00:21:40,365 Mm-Hmm. and what I did 612 00:21:40,625 --> 00:21:42,045 and what happened, all 613 00:21:42,045 --> 00:21:43,805 of a sudden all those values come out. 614 00:21:44,105 --> 00:21:46,565 But they do it in, in just a more powerful way. 615 00:21:46,565 --> 00:21:48,805 And what ends up happening is we end up connecting 616 00:21:49,305 --> 00:21:50,325 on those shared values. 617 00:21:50,545 --> 00:21:52,245 Mm-Hmm. . So as we're sitting, you know, 618 00:21:52,245 --> 00:21:53,445 listening to somebody else tell their story, 619 00:21:53,895 --> 00:21:55,565 we're again writing ourselves into their 620 00:21:55,565 --> 00:21:56,645 story, but it's someone we know. 621 00:21:56,985 --> 00:21:59,445 And now all of a sudden we're, we're developing a connection 622 00:21:59,445 --> 00:22:01,405 and that starts to build that community Yeah. 623 00:22:01,665 --> 00:22:04,125 Of people together. And that's the powerful moment. Mm-Hmm. 624 00:22:04,165 --> 00:22:05,645 when we connect on shared values. 625 00:22:06,065 --> 00:22:07,405 - So this may be just a few minutes 626 00:22:07,405 --> 00:22:09,405 where you're each sharing some stories, 627 00:22:09,965 --> 00:22:11,525 a moment, a story in your life. 628 00:22:12,185 --> 00:22:15,085 How do we transition this from story of self to story of us? 629 00:22:15,105 --> 00:22:18,645 So it becomes like, not only am I benefited from hearing 630 00:22:18,675 --> 00:22:21,885 your story and sharing my story, but we're like more united. 631 00:22:22,025 --> 00:22:23,485 And maybe that just happens organically. 632 00:22:23,565 --> 00:22:25,725 - I mean, I think that's hopefully one of the outcomes. 633 00:22:25,745 --> 00:22:26,965 Mm-Hmm. right? Is 634 00:22:27,255 --> 00:22:30,165 after a while someone might be like, Hey, I, I listened 635 00:22:30,165 --> 00:22:31,325 to so-and-so share their story. 636 00:22:31,425 --> 00:22:33,165 And that made a difference for me. 637 00:22:33,465 --> 00:22:34,765 And I felt like I connected. 638 00:22:34,785 --> 00:22:36,405 And it's sort of like a web 639 00:22:36,405 --> 00:22:38,045 of you just start to connect everyone. 640 00:22:38,045 --> 00:22:39,925 Mm-Hmm. . And then you have that shared story. 641 00:22:39,925 --> 00:22:41,325 Now you've got a quorum or a class 642 00:22:41,425 --> 00:22:44,205 or a presidency that is aligned together 643 00:22:44,205 --> 00:22:46,765 because they understand where everybody's coming from. 644 00:22:47,115 --> 00:22:49,645 Yeah. And I think sometimes people are gonna be like, 645 00:22:49,665 --> 00:22:50,925 do I have to like, tell 'em about this 646 00:22:50,925 --> 00:22:52,245 challenge, choice, outcome thing? 647 00:22:52,355 --> 00:22:54,285 Like, that feels kind of intimidating. 648 00:22:54,765 --> 00:22:56,525 I think me as a teacher, I go to the default, like, 649 00:22:56,725 --> 00:22:59,445 let me give you the framework and teach you the didactic. 650 00:22:59,465 --> 00:23:00,765 And, but as an elders quorum 651 00:23:00,765 --> 00:23:02,205 president, that's gonna be hard. 652 00:23:02,225 --> 00:23:04,485 So I, I did come up with a few questions that 653 00:23:05,045 --> 00:23:06,765 I think get it, challenge, choice, outcome, 654 00:23:06,985 --> 00:23:08,045 but they're a little more subtle. 655 00:23:08,475 --> 00:23:11,325 Okay. So for example, on our team, professionally, 656 00:23:11,325 --> 00:23:13,765 when we would get a new member of our pharmacy team, 657 00:23:14,465 --> 00:23:15,805 we would take some time 658 00:23:16,145 --> 00:23:17,765 and I would just give people the prompt. 659 00:23:18,305 --> 00:23:20,725 Now tell me about a childhood experience you had 660 00:23:21,155 --> 00:23:23,205 that helped you become the person you are today. 661 00:23:23,625 --> 00:23:25,005 And there's a little bit of intention there. 662 00:23:25,075 --> 00:23:27,245 It's childhood experience is immediately gonna 663 00:23:27,245 --> 00:23:28,405 go a little vulnerable. 664 00:23:28,405 --> 00:23:29,845 Something we don't normally talk about, 665 00:23:30,465 --> 00:23:31,765 but the helped make you 666 00:23:32,105 --> 00:23:35,165 who you are today gives it sort of a hopeful spin. 667 00:23:35,405 --> 00:23:37,605 Hmm. Because what we don't want to do is sit there 668 00:23:37,605 --> 00:23:38,805 and kind of like, it's not therapy. 669 00:23:39,055 --> 00:23:40,685 Right. We're not all, you know Yeah. 670 00:23:40,715 --> 00:23:43,725 Just unloading on each other. So that was one. 671 00:23:44,075 --> 00:23:46,245 Another one was around 672 00:23:46,825 --> 00:23:48,685 how did you receive your testimony of the gospel? 673 00:23:49,165 --> 00:23:51,845 Hmm. I think in there you're gonna find challenge, 674 00:23:51,845 --> 00:23:53,085 choice, outcome, right? 675 00:23:53,115 --> 00:23:54,845 Like, oh, I wasn't sure about something, 676 00:23:54,945 --> 00:23:57,205 and then I wrestled with it and prayed about it 677 00:23:57,225 --> 00:23:58,325 and, and here's what happened. 678 00:23:58,425 --> 00:24:00,125 Or, you know, what was a challenge 679 00:24:00,125 --> 00:24:02,485 or a trial you've experienced that strengthened your faith? 680 00:24:02,975 --> 00:24:05,165 Again, the challenge is gonna be a little vulnerable, 681 00:24:05,505 --> 00:24:08,005 but the strength in your faith gives it a hopeful ending. 682 00:24:08,425 --> 00:24:10,165 So I think you could come up with any number 683 00:24:10,165 --> 00:24:11,725 of questions if you're in a YSA ward, 684 00:24:11,725 --> 00:24:13,765 if you're in a family ward, if you're, you know, 685 00:24:13,765 --> 00:24:16,045 depending on the setting, you might craft a question. 686 00:24:16,105 --> 00:24:18,565 But how do you get someone to open 687 00:24:18,565 --> 00:24:20,805 that vulnerability door just a little bit Mm-Hmm. 688 00:24:20,845 --> 00:24:22,805 and provide kind of 689 00:24:22,805 --> 00:24:24,685 that positive, hopeful outcome. 690 00:24:24,775 --> 00:24:26,645 Right. It doesn't always have to be that way, 691 00:24:26,905 --> 00:24:30,445 but I, I just find if you get too much negative outcome 692 00:24:30,715 --> 00:24:33,645 that you're gonna kinda lose the, the purpose. Gotcha. 693 00:24:34,075 --> 00:24:35,605 - It's - Kinda like going to a movie with a bad ending. 694 00:24:35,635 --> 00:24:37,085 Yeah. Right. We don't tend to, 695 00:24:37,085 --> 00:24:38,805 those aren't the popular ones. 696 00:24:38,805 --> 00:24:41,405 - So the way you're setting it up is, is you're making sure 697 00:24:41,405 --> 00:24:43,525 that there's, there's hope in the, the story. 698 00:24:43,525 --> 00:24:46,525 Yeah. Right. Yeah. That like how did that help you in life? 699 00:24:46,525 --> 00:24:47,605 Right? Yep. Or whatever. Yeah. 700 00:24:47,955 --> 00:24:49,045 - Help you become where you're at, 701 00:24:49,845 --> 00:24:51,685 strengthen your faith, whatever it happens to 702 00:24:51,685 --> 00:24:52,685 - Me. 703 00:24:52,685 --> 00:24:53,605 Mm-Hmm. . Gotcha. Anything else as far 704 00:24:53,605 --> 00:24:55,245 as that story of us? 705 00:24:55,385 --> 00:24:57,805 Uh, I'm just thinking, I, I see just organically, 706 00:24:57,825 --> 00:25:01,085 the more iterations you do of this, you know, um, 707 00:25:01,665 --> 00:25:03,925 the more it's gonna unify that group and, 708 00:25:04,065 --> 00:25:06,765 and suddenly this identity of that group 709 00:25:07,305 --> 00:25:09,005 is much, much more clear. Right? 710 00:25:09,005 --> 00:25:11,085 - Yeah, absolutely. And there is, you know, 711 00:25:11,695 --> 00:25:13,645 there is some tactic around this, right? 712 00:25:14,065 --> 00:25:18,965 And you could try and get up and share a story of us, right? 713 00:25:19,025 --> 00:25:22,525 You could try and note the shared values that you found, 714 00:25:23,025 --> 00:25:24,085 and maybe a leader does it, 715 00:25:24,085 --> 00:25:25,525 it's a little bit storytelling 2.0. 716 00:25:25,705 --> 00:25:27,205 The self is the easy part. Yeah. 717 00:25:27,265 --> 00:25:29,045 The US is, I have to make some assumptions 718 00:25:29,065 --> 00:25:32,165 or I need to draw on the experiences we've had together. 719 00:25:32,625 --> 00:25:35,285 So you could have a story of us, which, which was, you know, 720 00:25:35,845 --> 00:25:37,325 remember the time that we all showed up 721 00:25:37,655 --> 00:25:40,005 after, so-and-so's basement flooded. 722 00:25:40,005 --> 00:25:42,685 Mm-Hmm. . And we all sat there and we slung mud 723 00:25:42,705 --> 00:25:44,125 and we threw stuff in the dumpster. 724 00:25:44,145 --> 00:25:46,285 And like, that was a little bit of an us moment. 725 00:25:47,105 --> 00:25:48,365 And, you know, you could share that. 726 00:25:49,025 --> 00:25:51,285 But I do think the feeling of us is what starts to come 727 00:25:51,295 --> 00:25:53,965 after we, we build those connections. Yeah. 728 00:25:53,965 --> 00:25:57,085 - And I'm just thinking like, if there's, in that transition 729 00:25:57,085 --> 00:25:59,205 of the story of us, if it feels a little empty, 730 00:25:59,495 --> 00:26:02,325 maybe there hasn't been a lot of those stories of, you know 731 00:26:02,325 --> 00:26:03,965 what, we've actually never gathered together 732 00:26:04,105 --> 00:26:05,725 or we've never done that service thing. 733 00:26:05,725 --> 00:26:07,485 Yeah. Or, but now that we know each other, 734 00:26:07,895 --> 00:26:09,365 maybe we can go do something. 735 00:26:09,425 --> 00:26:13,765 Yep. And the next time we reunite, we'll have a, a deeper, 736 00:26:14,075 --> 00:26:15,485 more dynamic story of us, 737 00:26:15,485 --> 00:26:18,045 because we did go do that service assignment Yeah. 738 00:26:18,045 --> 00:26:20,365 Or we did went, you know, on that shooting activity 739 00:26:20,465 --> 00:26:21,565 or whatever it is Yeah. 740 00:26:21,875 --> 00:26:25,285 That those, uh, the story of us become, you can write 741 00:26:25,285 --> 00:26:26,765 that story in real time. 742 00:26:27,205 --> 00:26:28,085 - I mean, you could think about doing this 743 00:26:28,125 --> 00:26:28,725 a couple different ways. 744 00:26:28,725 --> 00:26:31,325 Like you could take your whole release society hour 745 00:26:31,785 --> 00:26:33,805 and you could break people into groups of four or five 746 00:26:34,225 --> 00:26:35,405 and give everybody that two 747 00:26:35,405 --> 00:26:36,805 or three minutes to share a story. 748 00:26:37,265 --> 00:26:39,445 And I can almost guarantee that what happens in 749 00:26:39,445 --> 00:26:41,765 that small group is gonna be pretty powerful. 750 00:26:41,765 --> 00:26:43,525 Mm-Hmm. , a little mini story 751 00:26:43,525 --> 00:26:44,925 of us is gonna develop. 752 00:26:45,425 --> 00:26:47,325 Or maybe you do that once, 753 00:26:47,345 --> 00:26:48,645 and then if people weren't around, 754 00:26:48,645 --> 00:26:51,245 maybe somebody takes five minutes at the beginning 755 00:26:51,245 --> 00:26:53,925 of a lesson and they get their chance to share their story. 756 00:26:54,035 --> 00:26:56,045 Yeah. But you stick with that long enough. 757 00:26:56,045 --> 00:26:58,085 You do that a few times, that's when you're gonna start 758 00:26:58,085 --> 00:26:59,245 to feel right. 759 00:26:59,505 --> 00:27:01,685 The glue. Because every time, 760 00:27:01,975 --> 00:27:03,525 every time we do a session on story 761 00:27:03,585 --> 00:27:06,845 and people are able to share together, there's a little bit 762 00:27:06,845 --> 00:27:08,205 of secret sauce that happens in there. 763 00:27:08,215 --> 00:27:10,005 Right. And it's totally organic. Right. 764 00:27:10,005 --> 00:27:11,005 You're not forcing it, 765 00:27:11,115 --> 00:27:13,125 it's whatever the group is bringing into the room. 766 00:27:13,745 --> 00:27:15,845 But, you know, safety goes up a little bit, 767 00:27:15,935 --> 00:27:18,285 trust goes up a little bit, and now you've got four 768 00:27:18,285 --> 00:27:20,805 or five people who feel connected to each other. 769 00:27:20,995 --> 00:27:22,645 Yeah. Maybe it's even a training 770 00:27:22,645 --> 00:27:24,085 session, training your ministers, right? 771 00:27:24,085 --> 00:27:25,405 Like, think about story. 772 00:27:25,465 --> 00:27:27,405 How do you weave story into your ministering visit? 773 00:27:27,785 --> 00:27:29,085 How do you share who you are? 774 00:27:29,105 --> 00:27:31,765 How do you kind of tease out that other person? 775 00:27:31,865 --> 00:27:34,085 And it's, it's in a genuine and caring way. Yeah. 776 00:27:34,425 --> 00:27:36,445 So I think there's a lot of little applications. 777 00:27:36,445 --> 00:27:39,125 It doesn't have to just be like a workshop, but Mm-Hmm. 778 00:27:39,165 --> 00:27:41,125 , how do I weave these principles in 779 00:27:41,125 --> 00:27:43,325 and start to build that trust with other people? 780 00:27:43,865 --> 00:27:46,685 - And I'm just thinking, you know, I again, as, 781 00:27:46,745 --> 00:27:47,765 as you do this more 782 00:27:47,765 --> 00:27:50,445 and more, by the sixth time you do this, suddenly 783 00:27:51,275 --> 00:27:52,845 when you do get to the conference talk 784 00:27:53,025 --> 00:27:54,245 and the lesson Mm-Hmm. 785 00:27:54,285 --> 00:27:56,685 , it's a, it's a different experience. Oh. 786 00:27:57,385 --> 00:27:59,565 It becomes, comments are different. Oh yeah. Absolutely. 787 00:27:59,635 --> 00:28:02,565 Yeah. And because I think most elders quorums, I mean, 788 00:28:02,965 --> 00:28:05,365 I don't hear a lot of people rave about like, oh, 789 00:28:05,485 --> 00:28:07,005 I just love my El quorum lesson. 790 00:28:07,005 --> 00:28:08,685 Right. And bless their hearts. I know people are trying, 791 00:28:08,845 --> 00:28:10,565 I don't wanna diminish the efforts that are there, 792 00:28:10,905 --> 00:28:12,445 but sometimes you're just like, I just don't know 793 00:28:12,445 --> 00:28:13,525 why this isn't clicking. 794 00:28:13,555 --> 00:28:15,405 Yeah. Like, yeah, we got some comments happening. 795 00:28:15,915 --> 00:28:17,405 It's the same five people that comment. 796 00:28:17,865 --> 00:28:19,005 We do our thing, we go home. 797 00:28:19,165 --> 00:28:20,405 I guess we'll do it again next time. 798 00:28:21,065 --> 00:28:24,165 But again, you're sort of fostering this, this fire. Mm-Hmm. 799 00:28:24,205 --> 00:28:26,125 . And uh, suddenly it's like, wow. 800 00:28:26,595 --> 00:28:28,085 Like those three comments, 801 00:28:28,275 --> 00:28:31,045 that was like a moment for this quo. Yeah. You know? And 802 00:28:31,045 --> 00:28:32,285 - I think what you're getting at is, 803 00:28:32,285 --> 00:28:34,005 this does happen every once in a while. 804 00:28:34,005 --> 00:28:35,685 Mm-Hmm. . Right. Somebody will actually raise 805 00:28:35,685 --> 00:28:37,685 their hand and say, let me tell you about, you know, 806 00:28:37,685 --> 00:28:38,965 this challenging thing going on. 807 00:28:39,065 --> 00:28:40,285 And it's usually based on the lesson, 808 00:28:40,625 --> 00:28:42,125 and it does change the mood, right? 809 00:28:42,125 --> 00:28:43,765 Mm-Hmm. the whole feeling in the room changes. 810 00:28:44,155 --> 00:28:45,765 What if we did that on purpose? Mm-Hmm. . 811 00:28:45,765 --> 00:28:48,205 Right. What if we started with that instead of hoping 812 00:28:48,205 --> 00:28:50,005 that maybe it happens for five minutes 813 00:28:50,265 --> 00:28:51,845 at some point during the lesson? Yeah. 814 00:28:51,915 --> 00:28:55,005 - Yeah. And you know, obviously this is , 815 00:28:55,005 --> 00:28:58,005 there's this general resistance to the term, all right, 816 00:28:58,005 --> 00:28:59,245 everybody turn to your neighbor. 817 00:28:59,245 --> 00:29:01,445 Or let's get in groups. Like people are like, ah, come on. 818 00:29:01,445 --> 00:29:02,605 Like, I don't wanna do that. I don't, 819 00:29:02,715 --> 00:29:05,325 it's something in our nature as humans, we hate to Mm-Hmm. 820 00:29:05,365 --> 00:29:06,685 get in groups. And again, 821 00:29:06,685 --> 00:29:07,885 we wanna be in a passive state. 822 00:29:07,885 --> 00:29:10,245 Just give us the lesson and We'll, anyway, so, 823 00:29:10,425 --> 00:29:12,205 but it sounds like, I mean, this, 824 00:29:12,235 --> 00:29:14,125 this is a crucial part is you're not, 825 00:29:14,565 --> 00:29:16,405 I can just see maybe an elders current president 826 00:29:16,505 --> 00:29:18,445 or release cypress stand up with the group 827 00:29:18,445 --> 00:29:20,085 and be like, who wants to tell a story? 828 00:29:20,095 --> 00:29:22,765 Right. Maybe that happens every once in a while, 829 00:29:22,765 --> 00:29:25,725 but this is a small group activity, right? Yeah. 830 00:29:25,785 --> 00:29:28,125 - I'd say, you know, or - A pair of you 831 00:29:28,125 --> 00:29:29,125 - Stand up and say, we're gonna 832 00:29:29,265 --> 00:29:30,445 do something different today. 833 00:29:30,445 --> 00:29:32,005 Mm-Hmm. . And we're gonna get together. 834 00:29:32,105 --> 00:29:33,885 And the goal here is for us to really get 835 00:29:33,885 --> 00:29:35,765 to know each other on a deeper level. 836 00:29:35,835 --> 00:29:38,445 Yeah. Now you've set the stage, they're gonna have 837 00:29:38,445 --> 00:29:40,725 to come out of beta and that's okay. 838 00:29:40,725 --> 00:29:43,375 Right. They've, they've now been, been alerted to that. 839 00:29:43,935 --> 00:29:45,895 I also think we're just so used to kinda 840 00:29:46,465 --> 00:29:47,695 doing stuff in the head. 841 00:29:48,065 --> 00:29:51,855 Right. The logic, I should do this. This is my duty. 842 00:29:52,045 --> 00:29:54,815 This is what the handbook says. Mm-Hmm. . 843 00:29:54,835 --> 00:29:56,735 But we don't spend enough time engaging the heart. 844 00:29:57,125 --> 00:30:00,895 Like, and stories are the way we engage the heart. Yeah. 845 00:30:00,895 --> 00:30:03,175 Right? We get a little emotion. If I, you know, 846 00:30:03,175 --> 00:30:04,535 harness my Matt Lewis here, 847 00:30:04,535 --> 00:30:06,015 who would give me the evidence behind this. 848 00:30:06,645 --> 00:30:08,855 There's actually, so there was a study done, 849 00:30:08,855 --> 00:30:10,455 and I'm gonna get nerdy for a second. Love it. 850 00:30:10,535 --> 00:30:11,655 - I can't, that's what we do here, right? 851 00:30:11,685 --> 00:30:13,495 - Kyle, you got the nerdy professor going on here. 852 00:30:13,595 --> 00:30:17,455 Um, that they studied people with damage amygdalas, 853 00:30:17,755 --> 00:30:18,855 and the, that's a part of 854 00:30:18,855 --> 00:30:19,935 - The brain's - Part of the brain. 855 00:30:19,995 --> 00:30:21,055 Yep. Anatomy here, right? 856 00:30:21,375 --> 00:30:23,775 , it's the emotional processing center of the brain. 857 00:30:23,775 --> 00:30:26,375 Mm-Hmm. . Okay. And so what they were trying 858 00:30:26,375 --> 00:30:28,015 to see is like, what was the deficit? 859 00:30:28,515 --> 00:30:31,255 And what was fascinating is they could still reason Right? 860 00:30:31,715 --> 00:30:34,335 One plus one still equal two, A cow was a cow, 861 00:30:35,035 --> 00:30:36,495 but they couldn't make decisions. 862 00:30:36,725 --> 00:30:38,815 They were sort of in this kind of paralyzed state. 863 00:30:38,915 --> 00:30:41,855 So we often say like, don't make emotional decisions, 864 00:30:42,195 --> 00:30:45,695 but it turns out that actually all we're doing is 865 00:30:45,695 --> 00:30:46,775 making emotional decisions. 866 00:30:46,775 --> 00:30:48,375 Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And so when you get to, 867 00:30:48,475 --> 00:30:50,975 and if you think about the last piece of that is the story 868 00:30:50,975 --> 00:30:54,215 of now, which is the, the call to action, right? 869 00:30:54,215 --> 00:30:56,495 Think about how often we lead with the call to action, 870 00:30:56,495 --> 00:30:58,095 which is like, you should go out and do your ministry. 871 00:30:58,235 --> 00:31:00,615 You should show up for this activity. You should, right? 872 00:31:01,225 --> 00:31:03,575 We've skipped all the parts before. 873 00:31:03,575 --> 00:31:06,855 We haven't actually engaged the heart, that emotion, 874 00:31:06,965 --> 00:31:08,215 that decision making center. 875 00:31:08,675 --> 00:31:11,095 You know, once you get some of that going, then all 876 00:31:11,095 --> 00:31:13,055 of a sudden when somebody needs help, it's not like, oh, 877 00:31:13,075 --> 00:31:14,135 so and so down the street. 878 00:31:14,165 --> 00:31:16,775 It's the person I sat with and heard about. Yes. 879 00:31:17,065 --> 00:31:19,095 Their challenge and their life. Yes. 880 00:31:19,095 --> 00:31:20,415 And it's a whole different story. 881 00:31:20,525 --> 00:31:22,495 - Okay. So you're gonna love this. So I found there's this 882 00:31:22,515 --> 00:31:25,535 guy that does this YouTube channel, it's very well done. 883 00:31:25,535 --> 00:31:28,055 It's sort of the leading saints of the evangelical world. 884 00:31:28,595 --> 00:31:30,655 And he'll give like, tips and tricks online, right? 885 00:31:30,725 --> 00:31:32,095 Like, and he gave the, had this video, 886 00:31:32,175 --> 00:31:33,815 I shared it in the Leading Saints community, 887 00:31:33,815 --> 00:31:36,255 which everybody should be a part of and join 888 00:31:36,315 --> 00:31:38,375 and can continue the conversation going. 889 00:31:38,515 --> 00:31:41,295 So I posted in there, but he did this video about how 890 00:31:41,295 --> 00:31:42,615 to give announcements in church. 891 00:31:42,855 --> 00:31:44,935 I mean, something so basic. You think what? 892 00:31:45,445 --> 00:31:46,615 Just give the announcement, right? Yeah. 893 00:31:46,675 --> 00:31:49,455 And he said, you'll have a much higher rate of people 894 00:31:50,095 --> 00:31:52,535 internalizing and remembering it if you embed the 895 00:31:52,695 --> 00:31:53,695 announcement in a story. 896 00:31:53,765 --> 00:31:55,375 Yeah. So he'll say something like, 897 00:31:55,975 --> 00:31:58,055 I remember last chili Cookoff Brother Jones, 898 00:31:58,115 --> 00:31:59,415 you had that hot chili, right? 899 00:31:59,415 --> 00:32:03,055 And I remember I had to bring some extra water to, you know, 900 00:32:03,055 --> 00:32:04,175 you're telling this story about 901 00:32:04,175 --> 00:32:05,575 what happened at the last chili Cookoff. 902 00:32:05,595 --> 00:32:07,255 And just so you know, we're having that this, 903 00:32:07,285 --> 00:32:09,015 this Saturday, it's at this time, right? 904 00:32:09,075 --> 00:32:11,295 And so I thought what a genius way 905 00:32:11,795 --> 00:32:13,615 to do announcements is figure out how 906 00:32:13,615 --> 00:32:15,295 to embed the announcement in a story 907 00:32:15,295 --> 00:32:17,775 because our brains turn on, it activates 908 00:32:17,925 --> 00:32:19,455 that emotional part of our brain. 909 00:32:19,715 --> 00:32:23,655 So we lean in rather than chili Cookoff Saturday six. 910 00:32:24,065 --> 00:32:25,175 Thank you. Yeah. Moving on. 911 00:32:25,435 --> 00:32:27,815 - And, you know, second nerdy data point there 912 00:32:28,355 --> 00:32:30,495 is they've done imaging studies, 913 00:32:30,995 --> 00:32:33,215 and as people hear stories, the brain lights up. 914 00:32:33,235 --> 00:32:35,215 Oh yeah. What's fascinating is the story ends 915 00:32:35,435 --> 00:32:36,655 and the brain stays lit. 916 00:32:36,675 --> 00:32:37,615 Mm-Hmm. . So 917 00:32:37,615 --> 00:32:38,575 it's a little bit of the science behind that. 918 00:32:38,575 --> 00:32:41,205 People are gonna hold on to what they felt, 919 00:32:41,745 --> 00:32:43,765 and you might get that announcement to be more effective. 920 00:32:43,765 --> 00:32:46,125 Right? Cool. You might get that call to come 921 00:32:46,125 --> 00:32:47,485 and help or do this or do that. 922 00:32:47,715 --> 00:32:48,805 Yeah. Be more effective 923 00:32:48,805 --> 00:32:49,805 - That way. 924 00:32:49,805 --> 00:32:51,365 Another thing, and of course I'm a genius leader. 925 00:32:51,365 --> 00:32:53,645 What can I say? No, uh, I can give you my own example 926 00:32:53,645 --> 00:32:54,925 of a, of a good tactic. 927 00:32:54,925 --> 00:32:55,965 But when I was a hyper scru, 928 00:32:56,025 --> 00:32:58,165 or long ago, one thing I did, 929 00:32:58,465 --> 00:32:59,645 it was home teaching back then. 930 00:32:59,905 --> 00:33:01,965 But I brought in a handful 931 00:33:02,065 --> 00:33:03,725 of sisters from the relief society 932 00:33:04,305 --> 00:33:06,845 who I knew had had very positive experiences 933 00:33:06,915 --> 00:33:08,245 with home teaching or ministering. 934 00:33:08,705 --> 00:33:10,245 And I just had them tell their story 935 00:33:10,245 --> 00:33:11,445 about what that meant to them. 936 00:33:11,505 --> 00:33:14,245 And, and, you know, you're, I'm, I was trying to humanize 937 00:33:14,915 --> 00:33:15,965 what we're trying to do. 938 00:33:16,055 --> 00:33:18,285 Right. That, and for them to hear that that's going 939 00:33:18,285 --> 00:33:20,125 to activate something different rather than a 940 00:33:20,125 --> 00:33:21,205 good solid guilt trip. 941 00:33:21,225 --> 00:33:23,645 And Yeah. You know, you better get, get on board 942 00:33:23,965 --> 00:33:25,285 'cause the prophet ask us to Yeah. 943 00:33:25,285 --> 00:33:26,685 - And that's all in the head, right? Yes. Yes. 944 00:33:26,685 --> 00:33:29,325 And the stories right. And seeing what impact it can have. 945 00:33:29,325 --> 00:33:30,485 Mm-Hmm. Yeah. That's all in the heart. 946 00:33:30,705 --> 00:33:32,245 - And, you know, talking about this head 947 00:33:32,245 --> 00:33:34,365 and heart dynamic, I think we, 948 00:33:34,545 --> 00:33:35,765 we fall in this trap a little bit 949 00:33:35,765 --> 00:33:38,245 where there's such an emphasis on teaching doctrine, 950 00:33:38,245 --> 00:33:41,805 which I totally get, I'm fully behind doctrine's powerful. 951 00:33:42,305 --> 00:33:44,285 But if we do it in a way where, where we're just sort 952 00:33:44,285 --> 00:33:45,925 of talking about facts, right? 953 00:33:45,955 --> 00:33:48,045 Like, or doctrine as if they're facts. 954 00:33:48,045 --> 00:33:49,845 Well, we obviously know that this scripture says this 955 00:33:49,865 --> 00:33:52,005 and that, and here's a quote by Elder Gong, 956 00:33:52,005 --> 00:33:54,925 and he said this, but we have to help them 957 00:33:55,565 --> 00:33:56,925 internalize the doctrine through story. 958 00:33:56,925 --> 00:33:58,805 Like what does this actually mean for you? Yeah. 959 00:33:58,805 --> 00:34:01,205 When did this doctrine actually show up in your 960 00:34:01,205 --> 00:34:02,205 - Life? 961 00:34:02,205 --> 00:34:03,325 Yeah. The application of the doctrine through 962 00:34:03,325 --> 00:34:04,525 - Story. Yes. Really important 963 00:34:05,045 --> 00:34:06,045 - Actually. 964 00:34:06,045 --> 00:34:06,205 And it's a little bit of a tangent, 965 00:34:06,265 --> 00:34:08,605 but I, I went to a, a public speaking course 966 00:34:09,065 --> 00:34:12,005 and they talked about when you're prepping right. 967 00:34:12,585 --> 00:34:13,765 Get your one big idea. 968 00:34:13,995 --> 00:34:16,085 Like if there's one thing I'm gonna get across Mm-Hmm. 969 00:34:16,125 --> 00:34:18,565 like this is it, what's the story 970 00:34:18,875 --> 00:34:19,965 that goes along with it? 971 00:34:20,345 --> 00:34:23,405 And then what's the, like how to Yes. Associate with it? 972 00:34:23,465 --> 00:34:25,445 Yes. If you think like, man, if we framed our lessons, 973 00:34:25,505 --> 00:34:28,165 if we framed our church talks that way, just want 974 00:34:28,165 --> 00:34:31,045 to get this one point across, this is what it meant to me 975 00:34:31,115 --> 00:34:33,725 through this story, and here's what you can do with it. 976 00:34:34,185 --> 00:34:37,725 It would be much more powerful. Yes. Lessons and talks. 977 00:34:37,835 --> 00:34:39,085 - Yeah. The narrative is 978 00:34:39,085 --> 00:34:41,125 so powerful in those, in those talks, you 979 00:34:41,125 --> 00:34:42,125 - Know? 980 00:34:42,125 --> 00:34:42,645 Yeah. And we can do this, like, 981 00:34:42,645 --> 00:34:43,605 we're more natural at this 982 00:34:43,605 --> 00:34:44,605 than we give ourselves credit for. 983 00:34:44,635 --> 00:34:47,205 It's true. But a little bit of framing, little bit 984 00:34:47,205 --> 00:34:48,245 of technique, right. 985 00:34:48,245 --> 00:34:50,765 People like, you know, don't skip the details. 986 00:34:51,265 --> 00:34:54,205 One thing we always talk about is engage the senses. 987 00:34:54,435 --> 00:34:56,285 Like, what was going on? What did you see? 988 00:34:56,315 --> 00:34:59,085 What did you smell? What did you feel as we're trying 989 00:34:59,085 --> 00:35:01,085 to like transport people into that moment? 990 00:35:01,545 --> 00:35:03,245 So it's a, this is a little bit of craft Mm-Hmm. 991 00:35:03,285 --> 00:35:04,445 . Right. But the more we practice it, 992 00:35:04,445 --> 00:35:07,365 and we're a little intentional about trying these 993 00:35:07,365 --> 00:35:09,405 techniques, then our stories start to get better 994 00:35:09,405 --> 00:35:10,445 and better. Yeah. Over 995 00:35:10,445 --> 00:35:11,445 - Time. 996 00:35:11,445 --> 00:35:13,405 Yeah. I'll just reference this so it's in the show notes 997 00:35:13,425 --> 00:35:15,085 and people can, if they wanna dive deeper, 998 00:35:15,285 --> 00:35:18,245 I did an interview with Matthew Dix, not a latter day saint, 999 00:35:18,345 --> 00:35:20,005 but a professional storyteller. 1000 00:35:20,305 --> 00:35:22,925 And, uh, his tactics, I, I still use them. 1001 00:35:22,955 --> 00:35:25,165 Just so again, like creating the, 1002 00:35:25,305 --> 00:35:26,645 we don't just tell a story like, oh, 1003 00:35:26,645 --> 00:35:27,925 this one time I'm on my mission and 1004 00:35:27,925 --> 00:35:29,045 we talked to this person. 1005 00:35:29,145 --> 00:35:30,525 But it's like when you start saying, 1006 00:35:30,965 --> 00:35:32,645 I was on my mission in Puerto Rico 1007 00:35:33,145 --> 00:35:35,405 and it was a really hot time of the year, 1008 00:35:35,585 --> 00:35:37,485 and it was raining, and suddenly you're like, 1009 00:35:37,735 --> 00:35:39,485 we're like, we're hypnotized. Yeah. You're 1010 00:35:39,985 --> 00:35:40,985 - In - That moment. 1011 00:35:40,985 --> 00:35:41,885 We're bringing him into it. Yeah. 1012 00:35:41,905 --> 00:35:44,405 And it's, it's a different experience than just getting 1013 00:35:44,405 --> 00:35:45,405 to the point of the story. 1014 00:35:45,405 --> 00:35:46,445 Yeah. Absolutely. 1015 00:35:46,705 --> 00:35:49,525 So anything else that needs to touch on as far as taking, 1016 00:35:49,665 --> 00:35:52,085 so he's talked about the story of self, the story of us, 1017 00:35:52,385 --> 00:35:53,405 and the story of now. 1018 00:35:53,405 --> 00:35:54,725 Like, help us understand that. 1019 00:35:55,155 --> 00:35:57,205 - Yeah. The last piece, if you think about this as a, 1020 00:35:57,345 --> 00:36:00,085 you know, I've shared my story, who am I story of self. 1021 00:36:00,445 --> 00:36:01,885 I hope that that's resonated 1022 00:36:02,115 --> 00:36:03,245 with the group when we share 1023 00:36:03,245 --> 00:36:04,365 those values that they've heard. 1024 00:36:04,625 --> 00:36:07,725 The story of now is really, it's a call to action 1025 00:36:08,385 --> 00:36:12,805 and you frame the nightmare if we don't act, 1026 00:36:13,265 --> 00:36:14,645 and the hope if we do. 1027 00:36:14,665 --> 00:36:17,045 Mm. And that sounds really dramatic. And if you think about, 1028 00:36:17,185 --> 00:36:19,045 - And almost manipulative if you use it wrong. Yeah, 1029 00:36:19,075 --> 00:36:20,075 - Yeah. 1030 00:36:20,075 --> 00:36:20,605 A hundred percent. We can get there. Yeah. 1031 00:36:20,605 --> 00:36:21,925 We can talk about that too in a second. 1032 00:36:22,025 --> 00:36:24,125 All tools can be used Yeah. To manipulate. 1033 00:36:24,185 --> 00:36:26,005 But, you know, if you think about the world 1034 00:36:26,025 --> 00:36:28,245 of community organizing, those calls 1035 00:36:28,265 --> 00:36:29,605 to action were a big deal. 1036 00:36:29,605 --> 00:36:31,325 There was a nightmare going on, 1037 00:36:31,625 --> 00:36:33,725 but nobody's gonna follow a nightmare. 1038 00:36:33,895 --> 00:36:36,405 Right? We only follow leaders who have a hopeful, 1039 00:36:37,135 --> 00:36:38,445 optimistic vision of the future. 1040 00:36:38,465 --> 00:36:41,725 Mm-Hmm. . So again, in church context, 1041 00:36:41,795 --> 00:36:42,845 this might be a little more subtle, 1042 00:36:42,985 --> 00:36:44,725 but, you know, if we don't do 1043 00:36:44,725 --> 00:36:46,445 something, what's gonna happen? 1044 00:36:46,615 --> 00:36:49,125 Right. If we don't get the youth to the event, if we don't 1045 00:36:49,635 --> 00:36:50,685 keep coming back to ministering. 1046 00:36:50,685 --> 00:36:51,885 Right. If we don't do our administering. 1047 00:36:52,185 --> 00:36:53,405 So you, you kind of drop that, 1048 00:36:53,465 --> 00:36:55,685 but then you give the contrast of, 1049 00:36:55,945 --> 00:36:58,405 but if we do something, if we decide to show up, 1050 00:36:58,405 --> 00:37:00,005 if we decide to operate 1051 00:37:00,005 --> 00:37:01,765 differently, here's what's gonna happen. 1052 00:37:01,765 --> 00:37:04,005 Here's the positive outcome that's on the end of that. 1053 00:37:04,005 --> 00:37:08,245 Mm-Hmm. . So don't try self us now all at once. 1054 00:37:08,375 --> 00:37:11,165 Right. That's 1.0, 2.0, 3.0. 1055 00:37:11,345 --> 00:37:13,405 I'd say play around in the self sandbox. Right. 1056 00:37:13,405 --> 00:37:14,765 Working on giving people, just 1057 00:37:14,795 --> 00:37:16,285 telling their stories of self. 1058 00:37:16,555 --> 00:37:18,685 Give that some time, let that marinate 1059 00:37:19,185 --> 00:37:20,885 and then we can talk about us. 1060 00:37:21,305 --> 00:37:22,845 And then if you, you know, 1061 00:37:22,845 --> 00:37:24,845 you really wanna get into it that Yeah. That story of now. 1062 00:37:24,955 --> 00:37:28,205 - Yeah. And I think just giving permission, you know, it's, 1063 00:37:28,345 --> 00:37:31,045 I'm sort of witnessing this and this is a tough situation 1064 00:37:31,045 --> 00:37:32,485 and I, it causes me to ponder. 1065 00:37:32,645 --> 00:37:35,245 'cause I'm, I just constantly am thinking leadership. 1066 00:37:35,245 --> 00:37:36,645 That's why I'm this guy . 1067 00:37:36,645 --> 00:37:40,845 So, but I'm in an ward with, it's a, a new ward. 1068 00:37:40,995 --> 00:37:42,445 It's in a very developing area. 1069 00:37:42,505 --> 00:37:44,085 So lots of new people moving in 1070 00:37:44,225 --> 00:37:45,925 and I just sit in elders Corman. 1071 00:37:45,925 --> 00:37:48,445 And part of me feels like, who, like, this is a really, 1072 00:37:48,555 --> 00:37:49,685 like, we wanna get to the lesson, 1073 00:37:49,865 --> 00:37:52,845 but, you know, I see the Elders Corps pre presidency 1074 00:37:52,845 --> 00:37:53,845 struggling sometimes with 1075 00:37:53,905 --> 00:37:55,845 how do we just get this group going? 1076 00:37:56,185 --> 00:37:59,205 You know? And so I appreciate that just to, 1077 00:37:59,345 --> 00:38:02,245 to give yourself permission to sort of slowly 1078 00:38:03,395 --> 00:38:04,605 warm up the group. 1079 00:38:04,615 --> 00:38:06,925 Right? Yeah. That 'cause there's such this pressure of like, 1080 00:38:06,925 --> 00:38:09,005 all right, I'm gonna get to, here's a few announcements. 1081 00:38:09,465 --> 00:38:12,245 Um, brother John, you got the lesson right. Let's go. 1082 00:38:12,865 --> 00:38:13,965 But just to be like, you know, 1083 00:38:13,965 --> 00:38:16,245 we're actually gonna tell stories for a few minutes. 1084 00:38:16,345 --> 00:38:18,125 Mm-Hmm. . And we're gonna do it a lot. Yeah. 1085 00:38:18,145 --> 00:38:19,725 And, and, uh, part of me, I think some 1086 00:38:19,725 --> 00:38:21,805 of these would be like, but then we're doing it wrong right 1087 00:38:21,805 --> 00:38:23,965 then, but it's like, no, no, like you're doing it Right. 1088 00:38:24,205 --> 00:38:25,565 'cause you're warming them up to a place 1089 00:38:25,565 --> 00:38:27,605 where you can do it, really. Right? Yeah. Right. 1090 00:38:27,605 --> 00:38:29,845 - And it makes me think like someone new moves in, 1091 00:38:30,315 --> 00:38:31,365 give 'em five minutes. 1092 00:38:31,475 --> 00:38:32,765 Yeah. Ask 'em to come in 1093 00:38:32,765 --> 00:38:34,245 and like really tell us who are, 1094 00:38:34,245 --> 00:38:35,300 don't give us the quick like 1095 00:38:35,505 --> 00:38:36,645 - Any anybody. And so, 1096 00:38:36,785 --> 00:38:37,965 - And , you know, I've got 1097 00:38:37,965 --> 00:38:39,045 this many kids, this is what I do. 1098 00:38:39,045 --> 00:38:40,205 And then you sit down, it's like, no, no, no. 1099 00:38:40,205 --> 00:38:42,365 Tell us like, you know, tell us who you are and 1100 00:38:42,515 --> 00:38:43,515 - Yeah. 1101 00:38:43,515 --> 00:38:44,405 Like what's the story? Yeah. 1102 00:38:44,405 --> 00:38:46,845 - What's - Not just like, what are the facts? Right? 1103 00:38:46,845 --> 00:38:48,245 - Yeah. What matters to you. Yeah. 1104 00:38:48,245 --> 00:38:50,965 And, and that's, that would be one way in that kind of ward. 1105 00:38:50,965 --> 00:38:52,285 Mm-Hmm. to bring that in. 1106 00:38:52,745 --> 00:38:54,245 - And another proponent, this is actually, 1107 00:38:54,305 --> 00:38:55,765 I'm starting this up in my current ward. 1108 00:38:55,765 --> 00:38:59,485 I've done another wards is award podcast where I meet 1109 00:38:59,485 --> 00:39:01,965 with people just in this, like this type of setting. 1110 00:39:02,385 --> 00:39:04,525 And I just interview 'em. 1111 00:39:04,595 --> 00:39:06,645 Like so tell me about your faith development. Yeah. 1112 00:39:06,645 --> 00:39:07,845 Like, where'd you go on your mission? Yeah. 1113 00:39:07,845 --> 00:39:09,765 What was the experience like when you got your mission call 1114 00:39:09,865 --> 00:39:11,125 to Sacramento, California? 1115 00:39:11,175 --> 00:39:12,765 Where you disappointed? 'cause I was sort 1116 00:39:12,765 --> 00:39:13,925 of disappointed when I went and got called 1117 00:39:13,945 --> 00:39:15,245 to Sacramento, California. 1118 00:39:15,865 --> 00:39:18,525 So, and then sort of you have this library of stories 1119 00:39:19,315 --> 00:39:22,125 then when people see like, oh God, hey, I listened 1120 00:39:22,125 --> 00:39:23,565 to your story this week. 1121 00:39:23,625 --> 00:39:25,045 And you're like, oh, he kind of knows me. 1122 00:39:25,045 --> 00:39:26,045 - Yeah. The hallway chatter would be 1123 00:39:26,045 --> 00:39:27,045 - Exactly. 1124 00:39:27,045 --> 00:39:27,645 - Would be way different. - Yeah. 1125 00:39:27,645 --> 00:39:28,845 And so I think the goal, like the story 1126 00:39:28,845 --> 00:39:30,485 of now is more like this goal. 1127 00:39:30,945 --> 00:39:33,165 You're, it's not like this thing you do as much 1128 00:39:33,165 --> 00:39:35,765 as like a state of the community of like, 1129 00:39:36,105 --> 00:39:38,925 we are now in a story together because we know each other. 1130 00:39:39,185 --> 00:39:42,525 We see each other like we are, we're a community. Yeah. 1131 00:39:42,525 --> 00:39:45,565 We're not just here because they drew the geographic lines 1132 00:39:45,565 --> 00:39:46,805 around our neighborhood and set, 1133 00:39:46,805 --> 00:39:47,925 told us what time church was at. 1134 00:39:47,955 --> 00:39:50,125 Yeah. Which, uh, unfortunately where a lot of people are. 1135 00:39:50,225 --> 00:39:52,245 - And then the calls to action will actually get heated. 1136 00:39:52,245 --> 00:39:53,605 Mm-Hmm. . So what if you were a new leader 1137 00:39:53,605 --> 00:39:54,765 called and you said, you know what? 1138 00:39:54,865 --> 00:39:56,845 I'm not gonna push an agenda. Right. 1139 00:39:56,945 --> 00:39:58,285 I'm gonna build a community. Mm-Hmm. 1140 00:39:58,325 --> 00:39:59,805 , I'm gonna just start with community. 1141 00:39:59,865 --> 00:40:01,885 I'm gonna start with making sure we understand each other. 1142 00:40:02,145 --> 00:40:03,125 And what's funny is you don't even have 1143 00:40:03,125 --> 00:40:03,965 to be a new leader to do this. 1144 00:40:04,105 --> 00:40:06,205 We have people that we do these workshops with 1145 00:40:06,515 --> 00:40:08,525 that have worked together for a decade. 1146 00:40:08,985 --> 00:40:10,245 And we'll do story sessions 1147 00:40:10,245 --> 00:40:12,365 and they'll be like, I learned more about that person 1148 00:40:12,905 --> 00:40:14,245 in the two to three minute story 1149 00:40:14,245 --> 00:40:16,205 that they shared than I ever learned 1150 00:40:16,305 --> 00:40:17,485 in the decade working together. 1151 00:40:17,485 --> 00:40:19,285 Mm-Hmm. . Because we move past the surface 1152 00:40:19,425 --> 00:40:21,485 and we start to dive in to real stuff. 1153 00:40:21,485 --> 00:40:22,925 Mm-Hmm. . And then you think about you, 1154 00:40:23,025 --> 00:40:24,325 you keep doing that, you keep getting 1155 00:40:24,325 --> 00:40:25,445 people talking about real stuff. 1156 00:40:25,475 --> 00:40:28,085 Then, you know, when people are checking in in the hall, 1157 00:40:28,675 --> 00:40:29,725 it's a better interaction. 1158 00:40:29,755 --> 00:40:32,045 Yeah. When they're, you know, asking to come 1159 00:40:32,045 --> 00:40:34,085 and visit people in their home as part 1160 00:40:34,085 --> 00:40:36,605 of a administering visit, the likelihood of acceptance of 1161 00:40:36,605 --> 00:40:37,725 that is gonna go up 1162 00:40:37,725 --> 00:40:42,005 because we've already had good, deep, meaningful right. 1163 00:40:42,005 --> 00:40:43,125 Conversations. Yeah. 1164 00:40:43,265 --> 00:40:45,405 So I don't want people to think of this as a tactic. Right. 1165 00:40:45,405 --> 00:40:46,765 If it's a tactic, it's gonna fail. 1166 00:40:47,115 --> 00:40:50,165 It's gotta come from a genuine place of like, I do care. 1167 00:40:50,565 --> 00:40:53,445 I do want to hear, I do want to kind of build that, 1168 00:40:53,675 --> 00:40:54,805 that sense of community. 1169 00:40:55,365 --> 00:40:57,685 'cause if you try it and it's not authentic, 1170 00:40:58,435 --> 00:40:59,725 it's gonna come across Yeah. 1171 00:40:59,725 --> 00:41:02,365 It probably does damage. Yeah. Right. Versus building. 1172 00:41:02,795 --> 00:41:04,525 - It's a foundation that we're building here. 1173 00:41:04,595 --> 00:41:07,205 It's not like we're gonna do stories every time 1174 00:41:07,205 --> 00:41:08,285 we're an elder quo forever. 1175 00:41:08,745 --> 00:41:10,405 But you have to build that foundation 1176 00:41:10,465 --> 00:41:12,205 and then you can do the ministering, 1177 00:41:12,435 --> 00:41:15,645 then you can come together and do something special in that. 1178 00:41:15,925 --> 00:41:17,765 I just think I am just thinking out loud here, is 1179 00:41:17,765 --> 00:41:20,885 that I think that's, that the default position 1180 00:41:20,995 --> 00:41:22,405 that most wards are in is 1181 00:41:22,405 --> 00:41:25,005 that we are built on a foundation of behaviors. 1182 00:41:25,055 --> 00:41:27,045 Right. That which behaviors are good. 1183 00:41:27,165 --> 00:41:29,325 I love commandments love, but when it's that, when 1184 00:41:29,325 --> 00:41:31,845 that's your foundation, there's just no connection there. 1185 00:41:31,945 --> 00:41:35,125 And then leaders sometimes drive themselves crazy when like, 1186 00:41:35,125 --> 00:41:37,405 man, I can't, I told them, you know, I get the emails 1187 00:41:37,505 --> 00:41:38,925 and I I I keep telling this 1188 00:41:38,925 --> 00:41:40,405 administering, how hard is it diminish? 1189 00:41:40,595 --> 00:41:42,005 Just call the people. Yeah. 1190 00:41:42,065 --> 00:41:43,485 Go sit in their home every once in a while 1191 00:41:43,545 --> 00:41:45,245 or talk to 'em in the hall or text 'em. 1192 00:41:45,245 --> 00:41:46,445 Like how hard is this? Yeah. 1193 00:41:46,445 --> 00:41:48,125 Because you have a foundation of behaviors 1194 00:41:48,125 --> 00:41:51,045 and that it will not propel an organization forward. 1195 00:41:51,355 --> 00:41:53,685 Like that connection that stories really 1196 00:41:53,685 --> 00:41:54,685 - Do. 1197 00:41:54,685 --> 00:41:55,245 Mm-Hmm. . I think there's an overlap here. 1198 00:41:55,325 --> 00:41:56,365 I I spent a lot 1199 00:41:56,365 --> 00:41:58,605 of time in the arbinger content love arb, right? 1200 00:41:58,605 --> 00:42:00,925 Yes. Seeing people as people versus people as objects. Yes. 1201 00:42:00,955 --> 00:42:02,045 Stories have a way 1202 00:42:02,185 --> 00:42:05,685 of like immediately helping us see people as people. 1203 00:42:05,685 --> 00:42:06,685 Mm-Hmm. . Right. 1204 00:42:06,755 --> 00:42:08,365 They're not administering assignment, 1205 00:42:08,395 --> 00:42:10,765 they're not another member of my ward. 1206 00:42:10,765 --> 00:42:14,205 Right. That sort of object. It's, that's a person. Mm-Hmm. 1207 00:42:14,245 --> 00:42:15,645 . Right. And you know, 1208 00:42:15,645 --> 00:42:16,765 in, in their model right? 1209 00:42:16,765 --> 00:42:19,085 You have results which are driven by behaviors, 1210 00:42:19,085 --> 00:42:20,445 which are driven by mindsets. 1211 00:42:20,745 --> 00:42:21,805 We get that mindset, right? 1212 00:42:21,805 --> 00:42:23,525 Like these are people, these are people that matter. 1213 00:42:23,915 --> 00:42:26,645 Then all that behavior stuff gets better. Yeah. Right. 1214 00:42:26,665 --> 00:42:29,125 And then the results that we're looking for start to happen. 1215 00:42:29,265 --> 00:42:30,605 So it's one way I've found 1216 00:42:30,605 --> 00:42:32,405 that we can humanize each other Yes. 1217 00:42:32,405 --> 00:42:34,205 Pretty quickly by telling a story. 1218 00:42:34,555 --> 00:42:35,805 - Love it. Love it. 1219 00:42:36,165 --> 00:42:38,005 Anything we're missing in the story itself? 1220 00:42:38,425 --> 00:42:42,845 Us now the challenge, the choice, the outcome covered it 1221 00:42:42,845 --> 00:42:43,845 - Pretty well. 1222 00:42:43,845 --> 00:42:46,325 No, I, I just hope we've made it doable. Yeah. Right. 1223 00:42:46,365 --> 00:42:48,725 I hope as people are listening, it's, it's like this is, 1224 00:42:49,035 --> 00:42:50,405 there's a way to get this in there 1225 00:42:50,625 --> 00:42:52,445 and it doesn't have to be so daunting. 1226 00:42:52,445 --> 00:42:54,165 Hopefully we've brought down the, 1227 00:42:54,865 --> 00:42:58,005 the activation energy needed to try and, and play with this. 1228 00:42:58,185 --> 00:43:00,925 And we always tell people it's like riding a bike, right? 1229 00:43:00,925 --> 00:43:02,565 Maybe don't start it in elders quorum. 1230 00:43:02,575 --> 00:43:04,965 Start it in your presidency meeting. Right. 1231 00:43:05,055 --> 00:43:06,885 Maybe don't, you know, you don't have 1232 00:43:06,885 --> 00:43:08,525 to make the first performance in front 1233 00:43:08,525 --> 00:43:09,765 of the whole, the whole band. 1234 00:43:09,765 --> 00:43:12,285 Right. The whole, the whole audience find ways 1235 00:43:12,285 --> 00:43:15,525 to try it yourself, find ways to do it in a smaller setting, 1236 00:43:16,025 --> 00:43:18,565 and then when you're like, oh, okay, like, I got my story 1237 00:43:18,745 --> 00:43:20,205 or I've spent some time thinking about this, 1238 00:43:20,595 --> 00:43:22,365 then try it on the big stage. Yeah. 1239 00:43:22,545 --> 00:43:24,605 - And I'm just thinking, I mean, we're tying it a lot in the 1240 00:43:24,605 --> 00:43:26,125 context of, you know, the church meeting 1241 00:43:26,145 --> 00:43:29,045 or the elridge quorum Lisa sad experience every other 1242 00:43:29,045 --> 00:43:30,245 week, the second hour. 1243 00:43:30,465 --> 00:43:33,205 But you know, even inviting a handful of men over 1244 00:43:33,205 --> 00:43:34,405 to your house, I do this a lot, right? 1245 00:43:34,405 --> 00:43:36,365 Yeah. And just to, and you're just casually talking. 1246 00:43:36,435 --> 00:43:39,125 It's so much easier. It's almost a safer venue to be like, 1247 00:43:39,585 --> 00:43:41,965 so tell me like, why are you a lawyer? 1248 00:43:42,075 --> 00:43:44,645 Yeah. And what's that journey like, you know, and Mm-Hmm. 1249 00:43:44,685 --> 00:43:46,005 , what choices did you make? Right? 1250 00:43:46,005 --> 00:43:47,525 Like, what challenges you face? Right. 1251 00:43:47,685 --> 00:43:49,365 I think in that more casual setting, 1252 00:43:49,825 --> 00:43:51,325 and you could even stimulate that as, 1253 00:43:51,745 --> 00:43:52,805 as an elders quo, right? 1254 00:43:52,805 --> 00:43:54,685 There's no, there's so many ways to do this, right? 1255 00:43:54,685 --> 00:43:56,445 - Mm-Hmm. . And if you want to just flip it, 1256 00:43:56,445 --> 00:43:58,525 I've been telling you the, the broadcast mode. 1257 00:43:58,525 --> 00:44:00,485 Mm-Hmm. . But there's, you flip it 1258 00:44:00,485 --> 00:44:02,325 and you get into receiver mode, which is 1259 00:44:02,325 --> 00:44:04,285 how do I get stories out of other people? 1260 00:44:04,285 --> 00:44:06,525 Mm-Hmm. . And honestly, if you just sit there 1261 00:44:06,525 --> 00:44:09,165 and you ask people why, not in like an interview way 1262 00:44:09,345 --> 00:44:10,925 or a like, oh, you're a lawyer. 1263 00:44:10,955 --> 00:44:12,685 Like why did you decide to do that? 1264 00:44:13,115 --> 00:44:16,165 Like, oh, you went to school at, you know, Penn State. 1265 00:44:16,235 --> 00:44:18,725 Like how in the world did you make that choice? Right? 1266 00:44:19,155 --> 00:44:20,405 It's active listening, 1267 00:44:20,465 --> 00:44:22,005 but it's really just asking people why. 1268 00:44:22,025 --> 00:44:24,525 And you'll be amazed. You'll get challenge, choice, outcome. 1269 00:44:24,545 --> 00:44:27,005 Mm-Hmm. story of self brought back to you. 1270 00:44:27,145 --> 00:44:30,205 So as a leader, that can be a really helpful skill. 1271 00:44:30,235 --> 00:44:33,405 Like little l at around the campfire at your house. 1272 00:44:33,405 --> 00:44:36,245 That's right. Or big L in release society 1273 00:44:36,265 --> 00:44:37,485 or, or elder swarm. 1274 00:44:37,715 --> 00:44:39,965 - Cool. Love it. Any other principle 1275 00:44:39,965 --> 00:44:42,245 concept thing we missed? Did we do it all? 1276 00:44:42,645 --> 00:44:45,085 - I guess my only question is do we want to try an example? 1277 00:44:45,465 --> 00:44:46,845 Of course. Or do we not, you know, try, 1278 00:44:47,045 --> 00:44:48,565 - I love some good examples. Make this 1279 00:44:48,565 --> 00:44:49,565 - Is, make - This real. 1280 00:44:49,565 --> 00:44:51,325 It always happens to me as most as practical. So 1281 00:44:51,505 --> 00:44:53,325 - Do you wanna do one or do you want me to do one? Uh, you, 1282 00:44:53,325 --> 00:44:54,325 - Maybe you start. Ha ha. 1283 00:44:54,455 --> 00:44:56,285 - Happy to do that. I came prepared for that answer. 1284 00:44:56,355 --> 00:44:57,485 Good, good. Uh, just in case. 1285 00:44:58,145 --> 00:44:59,925 So maybe we'll even hit the clock 1286 00:44:59,945 --> 00:45:01,805 and just show that like, it's possible 1287 00:45:02,025 --> 00:45:03,205 can do this in two to three minutes. 1288 00:45:03,545 --> 00:45:05,365 - And do you set a clock? Like would you bring a 1289 00:45:06,045 --> 00:45:08,605 clock timer thing in elder school or 1290 00:45:08,995 --> 00:45:10,285 - This would be up for debate. Okay. 1291 00:45:10,355 --> 00:45:12,685 - Read the room a little bit - In a professional context. 1292 00:45:13,265 --> 00:45:16,045 We always set a timer be and we ask someone. 1293 00:45:16,345 --> 00:45:18,125 And now it's nice 'cause you can set your phone 1294 00:45:18,185 --> 00:45:19,485 and it can go off 1295 00:45:19,485 --> 00:45:20,965 and you don't have to be the one that like Yeah. 1296 00:45:20,965 --> 00:45:23,565 Yeah. Cuts off story and you'll always be the bad guy Right. 1297 00:45:23,675 --> 00:45:26,685 When you cut off and 'cause the conversation will be rich. 1298 00:45:26,795 --> 00:45:28,845 - Someone just started to cry about this story, 1299 00:45:29,045 --> 00:45:30,045 - . 1300 00:45:30,045 --> 00:45:31,685 Exactly right. I think if you set up in the beginning 1301 00:45:31,685 --> 00:45:34,245 that you're going to do that, that'll be fine. 1302 00:45:34,425 --> 00:45:35,925 Yes. The one plus 1303 00:45:35,945 --> 00:45:37,925 to doing it is you make sure everybody gets a chance. 1304 00:45:38,155 --> 00:45:39,685 Like, if you only have 25 minutes 1305 00:45:40,105 --> 00:45:43,595 and you don't give people a boundary Yeah. 1306 00:45:43,745 --> 00:45:46,835 Then two people will go and the other three will miss out. 1307 00:45:46,855 --> 00:45:49,035 Yes. On the opportunity. So you do play a little bit 1308 00:45:49,035 --> 00:45:51,675 of bad guy in order to foster an environment 1309 00:45:51,675 --> 00:45:52,915 where everybody gets a chance to share. 1310 00:45:52,985 --> 00:45:56,075 Love it. Because we know people wax long. Yes. Right. 1311 00:45:56,175 --> 00:45:58,355 You give people the mic and we 1312 00:45:58,355 --> 00:45:59,795 - Can turn very ver verbose on people. 1313 00:46:00,065 --> 00:46:02,795 - Case in point. Right. You're getting me waxing long here. 1314 00:46:03,115 --> 00:46:05,275 . So yeah. So I'll give this a try. Okay. 1315 00:46:05,275 --> 00:46:07,195 And, uh, I'll go into my story. 1316 00:46:07,575 --> 00:46:09,075 I'm gonna give, I actually woke up this 1317 00:46:09,075 --> 00:46:10,875 morning shifting my story. 1318 00:46:10,935 --> 00:46:12,595 I'm gonna give the the mission story. Okay. 1319 00:46:12,615 --> 00:46:13,635 An experience on my mission, 1320 00:46:13,735 --> 00:46:15,275 and then maybe we could unpack it 1321 00:46:15,415 --> 00:46:17,555 and show people Yeah. The principles. And this 1322 00:46:17,555 --> 00:46:19,715 - Is another, I mean, everybody's got a mission story or, 1323 00:46:19,975 --> 00:46:21,275 or two or a thousand. 1324 00:46:21,275 --> 00:46:23,315 Yeah. Like, it's such a easy place to 1325 00:46:23,315 --> 00:46:24,315 - Start anyways. 1326 00:46:24,315 --> 00:46:26,955 Yeah, absolutely. So I went on my mission to Mexico, 1327 00:46:27,575 --> 00:46:31,835 and in my first area, I, my companion 1328 00:46:32,605 --> 00:46:35,555 slept until 10:00 AM every single morning trainer. 1329 00:46:35,555 --> 00:46:37,155 My trainer. Your trainer, trainer. Trainer. Yeah, exactly. 1330 00:46:37,165 --> 00:46:39,555 Right. So I get there, I'm all jazzed, 1331 00:46:39,555 --> 00:46:42,755 like fresh outta the MTC and he's in bed. 1332 00:46:43,125 --> 00:46:44,435 Small side note, I actually tried 1333 00:46:44,435 --> 00:46:47,155 to pull him outta bed once right by his ankles. 1334 00:46:47,155 --> 00:46:48,435 And it, it didn't work super well, 1335 00:46:48,495 --> 00:46:50,995 but I decided that like, well, he's gonna sleep. 1336 00:46:51,595 --> 00:46:53,115 I didn't come here to like sleep till 10 1337 00:46:53,135 --> 00:46:55,195 and I wanna do stuff, but I just decided 1338 00:46:55,195 --> 00:46:56,755 that every morning I would sit down, 1339 00:46:57,375 --> 00:46:58,515 I'd put on my fleece jacket 1340 00:46:58,855 --> 00:47:00,995 and kind of this chilly brick apartment. 1341 00:47:01,335 --> 00:47:03,555 And I was just gonna read, I was gonna read everything. 1342 00:47:03,975 --> 00:47:06,475 So like, I devoured the entire mission library , 1343 00:47:06,475 --> 00:47:07,475 because you think about this, right? 1344 00:47:07,605 --> 00:47:09,875 Three months of two and a half hours every morning to read. 1345 00:47:09,935 --> 00:47:11,315 - That's, I mean, you already get a 1346 00:47:11,315 --> 00:47:12,715 significant amount of study time, but that 1347 00:47:12,715 --> 00:47:13,715 - Is Yeah, exactly right. 1348 00:47:13,715 --> 00:47:14,435 I read my grammar book Right. 1349 00:47:14,535 --> 00:47:17,355 You know, like, um, I read Jesus to Christ. 1350 00:47:18,095 --> 00:47:19,755 But in, in those two 1351 00:47:19,755 --> 00:47:23,635 and a half hours making that choice to just study, I read, 1352 00:47:24,055 --> 00:47:26,235 you know, the Book of Mormon in English 1353 00:47:26,295 --> 00:47:28,395 and in Spanish, you know, in Jesus, the Christ, 1354 00:47:28,415 --> 00:47:29,530 our search for happiness. 1355 00:47:29,530 --> 00:47:30,965 Like in that, those two 1356 00:47:30,965 --> 00:47:34,725 and a half hours, you know, I found the savior, right? 1357 00:47:34,885 --> 00:47:36,925 I found I had a testimony, 1358 00:47:36,945 --> 00:47:38,445 but it, you know, I just had these moments 1359 00:47:38,445 --> 00:47:40,245 where I was gaining insight 1360 00:47:40,265 --> 00:47:43,565 and I was, I was sort of lost for those couple hours, just 1361 00:47:44,285 --> 00:47:45,325 strengthening my testimony. 1362 00:47:45,825 --> 00:47:48,645 And then a couple weeks after I got a new companion, 1363 00:47:48,895 --> 00:47:51,245 after this three months, I woke up one morning, 1364 00:47:51,365 --> 00:47:53,005 I thought it's zone conference today. 1365 00:47:53,605 --> 00:47:55,525 Somebody would always give a talk. They'd be just randomly 1366 00:47:55,525 --> 00:47:57,165 called to give a talk in zone conference. 1367 00:47:57,745 --> 00:47:59,845 And I thought, I'm gonna get called today. 1368 00:47:59,995 --> 00:48:01,085 Like I know this is gonna happen. 1369 00:48:01,465 --> 00:48:04,365 And so I quickly kind like put a little talk together, 1370 00:48:04,705 --> 00:48:06,885 you know, three, three and a half months into my mission 1371 00:48:07,265 --> 00:48:08,325 and get his own conference. 1372 00:48:08,325 --> 00:48:10,485 And sure enough, right, we're all in there huddled. 1373 00:48:10,485 --> 00:48:12,645 It's, it's loud. And you know, elder Turner, 1374 00:48:12,895 --> 00:48:14,125 we're gonna give our talk today. 1375 00:48:14,305 --> 00:48:17,245 And I went up there and gave a talk. 1376 00:48:17,325 --> 00:48:18,285 I couldn't tell you what it was about, 1377 00:48:18,285 --> 00:48:19,325 couldn't tell you anything about it. 1378 00:48:19,325 --> 00:48:21,845 It seemed to go well. But everybody afterwards was like, oh, 1379 00:48:21,845 --> 00:48:23,765 that was really great and you know, like, 1380 00:48:23,765 --> 00:48:25,765 the language must be coming along, whatever. 1381 00:48:25,865 --> 00:48:28,205 And, and I sat there and thought I didn't think much of it. 1382 00:48:28,305 --> 00:48:31,805 But in that decision to still study, 1383 00:48:31,945 --> 00:48:34,525 and not only did I find my testimony 1384 00:48:34,525 --> 00:48:35,605 and my relationship with the savior, 1385 00:48:35,745 --> 00:48:37,605 but all of a sudden reading 1386 00:48:37,605 --> 00:48:39,085 that grammar book must have paid off 1387 00:48:39,085 --> 00:48:41,925 because I was able to, to capture the language. 1388 00:48:41,925 --> 00:48:44,845 And I just realized like, 1389 00:48:45,345 --> 00:48:46,925 God honors our obedient Right. 1390 00:48:47,035 --> 00:48:48,885 He's willing to give us blessings when we choose 1391 00:48:49,105 --> 00:48:50,125 to be obedient to him. 1392 00:48:50,675 --> 00:48:51,885 - Love it. - There you go. 1393 00:48:52,105 --> 00:48:53,285 - The end. Yeah. I mean's the story 1394 00:48:53,285 --> 00:48:54,405 roll the credits or Yeah. 1395 00:48:54,405 --> 00:48:56,205 - I have no idea how long that went. It had to be close. 1396 00:48:56,205 --> 00:48:57,885 Right? Okay. To, to two or three minutes, but all right. 1397 00:48:58,305 --> 00:48:59,605 One of my least favorite things to do is 1398 00:48:59,605 --> 00:49:01,405 to debrief my own story, but Okay. 1399 00:49:01,405 --> 00:49:03,045 Maybe we can just debrief a little bit. 1400 00:49:03,045 --> 00:49:05,645 - So you recommend a debrief after each story or 1401 00:49:05,645 --> 00:49:06,645 after everybody's told when 1402 00:49:06,645 --> 00:49:07,645 - We do it as a training. 1403 00:49:07,645 --> 00:49:09,325 Mm-Hmm. , we do a debrief. Okay. 1404 00:49:09,725 --> 00:49:11,965 I don't know that I would debrief like the principles 1405 00:49:12,025 --> 00:49:14,085 of challenge, choice, outcome. Okay. 1406 00:49:14,465 --> 00:49:15,445 - So what are you debriefing then? 1407 00:49:15,445 --> 00:49:16,485 What's the guidance there? 1408 00:49:16,785 --> 00:49:18,125 - You know, we just ask people, you 1409 00:49:18,125 --> 00:49:19,365 know, somebody shared a story. 1410 00:49:19,375 --> 00:49:22,005 Let's talk about where did you hear a challenge? 1411 00:49:22,255 --> 00:49:24,405 Where did you hear a choice? Where did you hear an outcome? 1412 00:49:24,665 --> 00:49:26,885 And that helps the, whoever was giving it back, oh, 1413 00:49:27,205 --> 00:49:28,605 actually I didn't get to an outcome. 1414 00:49:28,605 --> 00:49:30,925 Thanks for, you know, a little bit of feedback there. 1415 00:49:31,465 --> 00:49:33,445 One question I always ask people is just, you know, 1416 00:49:33,715 --> 00:49:34,925 what values did you hear there? 1417 00:49:35,265 --> 00:49:37,005 So maybe as I shared that story, what did you hear? 1418 00:49:37,195 --> 00:49:39,525 What kind of values did you hear in my story? 1419 00:49:39,955 --> 00:49:42,285 - Like the thing that came to mind is that you, like, that 1420 00:49:42,805 --> 00:49:44,445 situation could have gone so negative. 1421 00:49:44,445 --> 00:49:45,885 Like just being a frustration. 1422 00:49:46,125 --> 00:49:48,845 I got this, here I am trying to do missionary work 1423 00:49:49,265 --> 00:49:52,485 and you know, I've got a lazy companion and mm-Hmm. 1424 00:49:52,525 --> 00:49:53,765 , he's not doing it right. And, 1425 00:49:54,145 --> 00:49:57,565 but instead you just saw that as a sacred time to be like, 1426 00:49:57,565 --> 00:50:00,885 you know, I'm, I'm gonna double down into some really 1427 00:50:00,885 --> 00:50:02,685 helpful content that can bless my life 1428 00:50:02,745 --> 00:50:06,445 and like, learn more about Christ and be a better missionary 1429 00:50:06,445 --> 00:50:08,005 and be ready to teach the gospel 1430 00:50:08,115 --> 00:50:09,405 like you did in zone conference. 1431 00:50:09,405 --> 00:50:11,125 - Right. Any of those values resonate for you? 1432 00:50:11,555 --> 00:50:14,485 - Yeah. I mean, I wanna be more like that type 1433 00:50:14,485 --> 00:50:17,005 of person who's not looking for reasons 1434 00:50:17,345 --> 00:50:19,565 or, you know, excuses why things aren't going well. 1435 00:50:19,565 --> 00:50:23,205 But I can turn situations into a positive always, you know, 1436 00:50:23,285 --> 00:50:24,565 I, I have examples of that 1437 00:50:24,585 --> 00:50:27,330 and examples where I kind of fell short there. Yeah. So, 1438 00:50:27,505 --> 00:50:31,045 - And you could see how we could start actually a dialogue. 1439 00:50:31,065 --> 00:50:32,725 Oh yeah. Right. Like, oh, I shared a story. 1440 00:50:32,725 --> 00:50:34,005 Like, oh, let me, lemme 1441 00:50:34,005 --> 00:50:35,165 tell you about a time that that happened for me. 1442 00:50:35,165 --> 00:50:37,685 Right. Or, you know, so you can see where it would start 1443 00:50:37,745 --> 00:50:38,885 to, to roll. 1444 00:50:39,185 --> 00:50:40,725 The other things we talk about are, you know, 1445 00:50:40,725 --> 00:50:42,725 was there a moment where you were in that story with me? 1446 00:50:43,395 --> 00:50:46,325 - Yeah. - I mean, was there a visual that like, oh I can, I 1447 00:50:46,745 --> 00:50:47,745 - I'm there. 1448 00:50:47,745 --> 00:50:49,765 I was seeing you in my missionary apartments, you know, 1449 00:50:49,785 --> 00:50:52,285 and that wasn't Mexico, but, but you know. 1450 00:50:52,285 --> 00:50:55,725 Yeah. It was easy to, to envision what this may look like 1451 00:50:55,865 --> 00:50:57,365 and how, and how it felt. 1452 00:50:57,555 --> 00:50:59,645 - Yeah. So, uh, those are some of the things 1453 00:50:59,645 --> 00:51:01,845 that we unpack when someone's trying to learn this 1454 00:51:01,865 --> 00:51:04,125 as a leader and taking it, you know Yeah. 1455 00:51:04,265 --> 00:51:06,725 At a workshop. Trying to enhance their leadership skills. 1456 00:51:06,725 --> 00:51:07,965 Yeah. Trying to help 'em get some 1457 00:51:08,085 --> 00:51:09,085 - Coaching. 1458 00:51:09,085 --> 00:51:09,765 Yeah. This is really helpful. 'cause that debrief sort 1459 00:51:09,765 --> 00:51:11,525 of takes another level because there is, 1460 00:51:11,615 --> 00:51:14,165 there is benefit in just you to saying a story. 1461 00:51:14,275 --> 00:51:16,285 I'll say story and Wow, you know, that's cool. 1462 00:51:16,285 --> 00:51:17,685 I've learned something about you. You seem like 1463 00:51:17,685 --> 00:51:18,725 good guy and we're good. 1464 00:51:19,065 --> 00:51:20,965 But to then have a dialogue about the 1465 00:51:20,965 --> 00:51:22,445 principles and the Mm-Hmm. 1466 00:51:22,565 --> 00:51:25,245 the values in the story just takes it 1467 00:51:25,245 --> 00:51:28,925 that step further now we're that much more connected. 1468 00:51:28,995 --> 00:51:31,685 - Yeah. And what you might do if you were doing this in a 1469 00:51:31,685 --> 00:51:34,605 class, you might do a debrief less about the, 1470 00:51:35,205 --> 00:51:36,885 'cause you probably didn't present the challenge choice 1471 00:51:36,885 --> 00:51:39,765 outcome or the, the principles behind good storytelling. 1472 00:51:40,185 --> 00:51:42,005 But you might say, what did it feel like 1473 00:51:42,425 --> 00:51:43,965 to tell your story in this setting? 1474 00:51:44,115 --> 00:51:46,085 What did it feel like to hear somebody else's story? 1475 00:51:46,515 --> 00:51:49,565 What happened? And like that kind of debrief that gets 1476 00:51:49,565 --> 00:51:50,885 to your story of us all of a sudden. 1477 00:51:51,075 --> 00:51:53,125 Yeah. Right. 'cause you're hearing from those groups, like, 1478 00:51:53,275 --> 00:51:54,565 this is what I heard from somebody. 1479 00:51:54,565 --> 00:51:56,685 This is what I felt as I shared my story. 1480 00:51:57,075 --> 00:51:58,565 That might be a valuable debrief. 1481 00:51:58,595 --> 00:52:00,845 - Yeah. That often use that question, 1482 00:52:01,065 --> 00:52:02,245 you know, uh, what was that like? 1483 00:52:02,385 --> 00:52:04,365 You know, it's so simple. Super simple. 1484 00:52:04,395 --> 00:52:06,485 What did that feel like? Yeah. You know, and 1485 00:52:06,485 --> 00:52:08,125 - Again, we're engaging the heart. 1486 00:52:08,235 --> 00:52:10,245 Yeah. Right. Like, what'd you feel? 1487 00:52:10,245 --> 00:52:11,725 What was it like for you? What 1488 00:52:11,725 --> 00:52:12,765 did you experience as you were doing 1489 00:52:12,765 --> 00:52:13,765 - That? 1490 00:52:13,765 --> 00:52:14,685 And you're also revealing the story of us 1491 00:52:14,875 --> 00:52:17,045 with those questions of like, what was 1492 00:52:17,045 --> 00:52:19,005 that like telling your story in this setting? 1493 00:52:19,225 --> 00:52:22,005 You know, were you scared? Did were, were you comfortable? 1494 00:52:22,025 --> 00:52:24,165 And that sort of reveals something about us 1495 00:52:24,345 --> 00:52:26,445 and what we're moving past and hopefully making better. 1496 00:52:26,585 --> 00:52:28,885 Yep. You know? Absolutely. Cool. Yep. All right. 1497 00:52:28,905 --> 00:52:30,525 Is it my turn? Tell the story. Uh, 1498 00:52:30,595 --> 00:52:31,765 - Yeah. You wanna do it? Let's do 1499 00:52:31,765 --> 00:52:32,765 - It. 1500 00:52:32,765 --> 00:52:34,285 Yeah. I mean, I absolutely, I feel like I wanna be right 1501 00:52:34,285 --> 00:52:35,485 for you to just tell the story. 1502 00:52:35,485 --> 00:52:37,765 Yeah. So, and I, you gotta go to the mission. 1503 00:52:37,925 --> 00:52:40,165 I mean this is, and this is, that's maybe a theme. 1504 00:52:40,165 --> 00:52:41,285 You, you go with it. Sure. We're talking 1505 00:52:41,285 --> 00:52:42,405 about missions and whatever. 1506 00:52:42,705 --> 00:52:44,805 And the, your sleeping story triggered 1507 00:52:44,845 --> 00:52:45,925 a, a story in my mind. 1508 00:52:45,925 --> 00:52:48,645 And that's another benefit of telling stories is, uh, 1509 00:52:48,925 --> 00:52:50,605 I had a companion near the end of my mission. 1510 00:52:50,605 --> 00:52:51,925 We, we were companions twice, actually. 1511 00:52:51,925 --> 00:52:53,245 His name is Scott Saunders. 1512 00:52:53,665 --> 00:52:55,725 I'm very clearly calling him out on the podcast. 1513 00:52:56,165 --> 00:52:57,365 loved the kid. He's, 1514 00:52:57,365 --> 00:53:01,325 he's available ladies just saying, um, from Virginia. 1515 00:53:01,785 --> 00:53:04,005 And he had narcolepsy. Oh. 1516 00:53:04,005 --> 00:53:06,685 So y you know, he would fall asleep all the time. 1517 00:53:06,745 --> 00:53:09,645 And we, we were Spanish missionaries in California. 1518 00:53:09,645 --> 00:53:11,685 So we had a car. My whole mission, I had a car. 1519 00:53:11,905 --> 00:53:14,365 And the mission rule under, I think the handbook rule is 1520 00:53:14,365 --> 00:53:18,405 that companion has to stay awake when you're driving. 1521 00:53:18,405 --> 00:53:21,165 Right? Sure. And so I would typically be driving 1522 00:53:21,865 --> 00:53:24,125 and I would always be nudging him. 1523 00:53:24,185 --> 00:53:25,725 And he was always just sort 1524 00:53:25,725 --> 00:53:27,405 of on the verge of falling asleep. 1525 00:53:27,405 --> 00:53:29,565 And he had medication, which you could tell us all about. 1526 00:53:29,565 --> 00:53:33,805 But, um, and I remember there was this moment he came to me 1527 00:53:34,545 --> 00:53:38,885 and because he just, he wanted so desperately to be obedient 1528 00:53:38,945 --> 00:53:40,165 and he wanted to be a good missionary. 1529 00:53:40,625 --> 00:53:43,925 And he came to me and he me this spray bottle. 1530 00:53:44,305 --> 00:53:46,365 And he is like, elder frankum, please, 1531 00:53:46,725 --> 00:53:47,725 I know this is gonna be difficult, 1532 00:53:47,825 --> 00:53:50,725 but every morning you've got to spray me in the face 1533 00:53:50,815 --> 00:53:51,885 until I wake up . 1534 00:53:51,885 --> 00:53:53,965 Oh, that's awesome. Because I just wanna, I wanna get up, 1535 00:53:54,045 --> 00:53:55,365 I want to get with it because once I'm 1536 00:53:55,365 --> 00:53:56,605 awake, I'm, I should be good. 1537 00:53:56,755 --> 00:53:59,325 Yeah. And so we have such a, I just talked to him a few, 1538 00:53:59,625 --> 00:54:02,245 few weeks ago and we have just such a special relationship 1539 00:54:02,305 --> 00:54:03,765 of, of coming together 1540 00:54:03,765 --> 00:54:05,445 as companionship, of helping one another. 1541 00:54:05,515 --> 00:54:07,445 Like, I will help you be obedient. 1542 00:54:07,445 --> 00:54:08,765 Will you help me be obedient? 1543 00:54:08,785 --> 00:54:12,165 And that was such an effective companionship that I cherish 1544 00:54:12,395 --> 00:54:14,565 because and it was a lot of fun. 1545 00:54:14,705 --> 00:54:16,645 Mm-Hmm. to, and I couldn't help 1546 00:54:16,645 --> 00:54:18,405 but laugh as I was spraying him in the face every 1547 00:54:18,405 --> 00:54:19,605 morning with a spray bottle 1548 00:54:19,605 --> 00:54:20,925 - Creates a special bond. Yes. Right? 1549 00:54:20,925 --> 00:54:21,845 - Yes. Yeah. - For sure. When you spray 1550 00:54:21,845 --> 00:54:22,485 someone in the face every 1551 00:54:22,485 --> 00:54:23,485 - Morning. 1552 00:54:23,485 --> 00:54:24,725 Yeah. There's my story. Was that, is that a good story? 1553 00:54:24,725 --> 00:54:26,325 Fantastic. Did I do it wrong? Uh, no, 1554 00:54:26,325 --> 00:54:27,485 - No, no. It was great. It's great. 1555 00:54:27,705 --> 00:54:29,245 - You can't mess this up. It's hard to mess this up. 1556 00:54:29,245 --> 00:54:30,325 - It's hard to mess this up. Yes. 1557 00:54:30,525 --> 00:54:32,605 I think the only way it doesn't go well is when you just 1558 00:54:32,605 --> 00:54:34,845 start to tell like someone else's story. 1559 00:54:34,845 --> 00:54:35,845 Mm-Hmm. like in healthcare, we 1560 00:54:35,845 --> 00:54:36,365 do this all the time. 1561 00:54:36,365 --> 00:54:38,485 Like, lemme tell you about this patient's story. Yes. 1562 00:54:38,485 --> 00:54:39,645 Like, no, no, no, no. My 1563 00:54:39,645 --> 00:54:40,645 - Story. 1564 00:54:40,645 --> 00:54:41,525 This is the, I heard some therapist frame it 1565 00:54:41,525 --> 00:54:42,645 like speaking from the eye. 1566 00:54:42,735 --> 00:54:44,525 Uhhuh. , right? Yep. And this is one thing I 1567 00:54:44,525 --> 00:54:46,605 hit with the word podcast is like, I don't want to come 1568 00:54:46,605 --> 00:54:47,765 to your house and learn about 1569 00:54:47,765 --> 00:54:49,285 how awesome your grandfather was. 1570 00:54:49,525 --> 00:54:50,805 'cause that's family history. No, 1571 00:54:50,805 --> 00:54:51,925 no, no. I wanna talk about you. 1572 00:54:51,955 --> 00:54:53,405 - Yeah, exactly. So, mm-Hmm. 1573 00:54:53,445 --> 00:54:55,565 , what do you feel like you had a 1574 00:54:55,595 --> 00:54:56,845 challenge in that? 1575 00:54:56,995 --> 00:54:58,605 What was the challenge for you in that story? 1576 00:54:58,705 --> 00:55:00,925 - Oh, now you got me. Was there a challenge? 1577 00:55:01,245 --> 00:55:02,805 I mean, just the challenge 1578 00:55:02,905 --> 00:55:05,965 of doing like supporting a relationship. 1579 00:55:05,965 --> 00:55:07,285 Mm-Hmm. that we're asked. I mean 1580 00:55:07,285 --> 00:55:08,605 that's why we're in Companionships right? 1581 00:55:08,745 --> 00:55:09,965 Is to find support 1582 00:55:10,585 --> 00:55:13,285 and to be the type of missionary we wanna be. 1583 00:55:13,825 --> 00:55:17,165 So it wasn't much of a challenge for me then. 1584 00:55:17,165 --> 00:55:18,765 So again, maybe I told someone else story, but 1585 00:55:18,765 --> 00:55:19,845 nonetheless I had that because 1586 00:55:19,845 --> 00:55:20,845 - You were there. 1587 00:55:20,845 --> 00:55:21,645 Right. That's absolutely your story. Okay. 1588 00:55:21,845 --> 00:55:23,725 I heard lots of choices, right? Yes. 1589 00:55:23,845 --> 00:55:26,005 I like the spray bottle is uh, you know, 1590 00:55:26,345 --> 00:55:29,565 or the choice to honor your companion's request. 1591 00:55:29,565 --> 00:55:31,045 Mm-Hmm. , right? Like I made that choice. 1592 00:55:31,045 --> 00:55:32,685 Mm-Hmm. to say like, yes, I will help you. 1593 00:55:33,225 --> 00:55:35,725 And then the outcome, what would you say the outcome is? 1594 00:55:35,885 --> 00:55:37,605 - I mean we, it built a connection with us 1595 00:55:37,605 --> 00:55:39,365 that we were able to help each other out. Yeah. That 1596 00:55:39,375 --> 00:55:40,485 - Lasts through today. 1597 00:55:40,485 --> 00:55:43,605 - Yeah. And his example of striving to be, he just wanted 1598 00:55:43,605 --> 00:55:45,365 to be a better missionary, whatever that took, you know? 1599 00:55:45,365 --> 00:55:47,685 - Yeah. Yeah. And so those values, they come out, right? 1600 00:55:47,685 --> 00:55:48,845 Mm-Hmm. care about other people. 1601 00:55:49,275 --> 00:55:51,245 When people ask for help, I will honor it. 1602 00:55:51,565 --> 00:55:53,645 Longitudinal relationships. Yes. Right. 1603 00:55:53,645 --> 00:55:55,685 Like, can hear all of that come through in that story. 1604 00:55:55,955 --> 00:55:58,325 - Love it. Yeah. Well this is fun. Did we cover it all? 1605 00:55:58,365 --> 00:55:59,645 I mean, we gave some examples, and 1606 00:56:00,115 --> 00:56:03,925 - I'll give one last little background to this, is the idea 1607 00:56:03,925 --> 00:56:08,565 that as humans, we are wired for connection and community 1608 00:56:09,065 --> 00:56:12,245 and we are always attuned 1609 00:56:12,245 --> 00:56:13,805 to the signals that people are sending us. 1610 00:56:14,305 --> 00:56:18,605 And so as you think about story in that context, you say hi, 1611 00:56:18,665 --> 00:56:20,205 you smile, like those are signals, 1612 00:56:20,745 --> 00:56:22,605 but when you choose to tell a story, 1613 00:56:22,605 --> 00:56:24,605 when you put yourself out there, you are signaling 1614 00:56:24,605 --> 00:56:26,485 to the other person, this is a safe space. 1615 00:56:26,505 --> 00:56:28,005 Mm-Hmm. , this is a place where we can talk 1616 00:56:28,005 --> 00:56:29,165 about real things. 1617 00:56:29,665 --> 00:56:31,565 You do that inside a quorum. Right? 1618 00:56:31,735 --> 00:56:33,525 Those signals start to build culture. Wow. 1619 00:56:33,825 --> 00:56:34,965 And what, you know, transformational. 1620 00:56:35,025 --> 00:56:37,525 So as a leader, right, I should be really conscious 1621 00:56:37,525 --> 00:56:39,165 of the signals that I'm sending, right? 1622 00:56:39,305 --> 00:56:41,805 Are they signals that we care, that we can be vulnerable, 1623 00:56:41,805 --> 00:56:42,965 that we can connect with each other 1624 00:56:43,425 --> 00:56:45,845 or they signals that like I just here to do the job. 1625 00:56:46,235 --> 00:56:49,445 Yeah. And story is just a way to send the right kind 1626 00:56:49,445 --> 00:56:51,045 of signals Yeah. In a 1627 00:56:51,045 --> 00:56:52,045 - Group of people. 1628 00:56:52,045 --> 00:56:53,085 I'm just thinking like in a parent context as well. 1629 00:56:53,145 --> 00:56:55,565 My kids love to hear about the stories. My stories. Yeah. 1630 00:56:55,565 --> 00:56:57,045 You know, of when I was a kid, when I dealt 1631 00:56:57,045 --> 00:56:58,605 with similar things or you know, 1632 00:56:58,605 --> 00:57:00,005 we didn't have the streaming service 1633 00:57:00,225 --> 00:57:01,765 or my Nintendo had a cord 1634 00:57:01,785 --> 00:57:03,565 and I couldn't just walk around the house with it. Yeah, 1635 00:57:03,965 --> 00:57:04,965 - Absolutely. 1636 00:57:04,965 --> 00:57:07,165 And what that does, the signals make 1637 00:57:07,165 --> 00:57:08,525 the relationships that much stronger. Yeah. 1638 00:57:08,525 --> 00:57:11,245 - That's cool. If anybody wants to like deep dive in some 1639 00:57:11,245 --> 00:57:13,285 of these principles, I mean, is there, 1640 00:57:13,425 --> 00:57:15,005 are there certain books or resources 1641 00:57:15,005 --> 00:57:16,485 you would recommend or send 'em to? Yeah, I 1642 00:57:16,485 --> 00:57:19,005 - Mean you can find, uh, Marshall Gans has put out some 1643 00:57:19,005 --> 00:57:20,365 of his, he's got a couple white papers 1644 00:57:20,465 --> 00:57:21,525 and different things you can look at 1645 00:57:21,525 --> 00:57:23,925 and you can really, if you want to geek out on self us 1646 00:57:24,025 --> 00:57:25,205 now, that kind of thing. 1647 00:57:25,585 --> 00:57:27,765 You know, these are workshops we do all the time. 1648 00:57:27,905 --> 00:57:30,205 So if you're a, if you're a healthcare professional, then 1649 00:57:30,275 --> 00:57:31,805 - They can like hire you to come do in 1650 00:57:31,805 --> 00:57:32,805 - 10 health strategies. 1651 00:57:32,805 --> 00:57:34,085 Like in the healthcare space, in 10 health 1652 00:57:34,085 --> 00:57:35,165 strategies. That's 1653 00:57:35,165 --> 00:57:37,765 - The name of the is the nonprofit. The nonprofit, okay. 1654 00:57:37,825 --> 00:57:40,885 - So come in, whether it's you wanna join a cohort of people 1655 00:57:40,945 --> 00:57:42,805 or you just wanna bring your team. 1656 00:57:42,955 --> 00:57:44,725 Yeah. This kind of relational leadership 1657 00:57:44,725 --> 00:57:46,365 content, non-healthcare. 1658 00:57:47,035 --> 00:57:49,725 Matt and I do this for in non-healthcare settings. 1659 00:57:49,925 --> 00:57:51,565 'cause Cool. Turns out you can tell stories Yeah. 1660 00:57:51,565 --> 00:57:52,885 In all kinds of things as long as 1661 00:57:52,885 --> 00:57:54,245 - Humans are involved. Yeah. So, 1662 00:57:54,505 --> 00:57:57,445 - You know, can email me and we can include that, uh Okay. 1663 00:57:57,445 --> 00:57:59,885 If people are interested and you know, if people wanted 1664 00:57:59,885 --> 00:58:02,245 to try this in a church setting, what a fun experiment. 1665 00:58:02,315 --> 00:58:04,765 Yeah, right. To do some workshopping and different things. 1666 00:58:04,825 --> 00:58:07,085 So yeah. Uh, we could definitely do that. Awesome. 1667 00:58:07,665 --> 00:58:10,445 - All right, Kyle, the last, uh, question I have for you 1668 00:58:10,545 --> 00:58:12,485 as is you reflect on your time as a leader. 1669 00:58:13,065 --> 00:58:15,125 How has being a leader helped you become a better 1670 00:58:15,125 --> 00:58:16,325 follower of Jesus Christ? 1671 00:58:16,955 --> 00:58:19,325 - Yeah. It's funny you listen to the podcast now, 1672 00:58:19,325 --> 00:58:21,845 if you know this question's coming , um, you know, 1673 00:58:22,375 --> 00:58:26,605 every time we lead out big L leader, 1674 00:58:26,625 --> 00:58:29,925 little L leader, we stand in the savior stead. 1675 00:58:30,425 --> 00:58:31,565 We are there representing him. 1676 00:58:31,625 --> 00:58:34,845 And I feel like feeling that in leadership roles 1677 00:58:35,775 --> 00:58:38,965 makes you want to be like him, makes you wanna honor 1678 00:58:38,965 --> 00:58:41,005 that role and become more like him 1679 00:58:41,145 --> 00:58:42,925 and lead the way that he leads. 1680 00:58:43,145 --> 00:58:44,525 One of my favorite thing to do is 1681 00:58:44,525 --> 00:58:45,725 to look at the Savior's life 1682 00:58:46,145 --> 00:58:49,365 and find the leadership principles that he displays. 1683 00:58:49,365 --> 00:58:52,965 So it's just made me want to be more like him 1684 00:58:53,105 --> 00:58:55,205 and to follow him better than I do now. 1685 00:59:02,905 --> 00:59:05,485 - The end. That's it for this Leading Saints episode. 1686 00:59:05,805 --> 00:59:07,045 I encourage you to check out some 1687 00:59:07,045 --> 00:59:09,085 of the most popular episodes of the podcast 1688 00:59:09,235 --> 00:59:11,485 that we list at the bottom of the show notes. 1689 00:59:11,985 --> 00:59:14,325 If you haven't listened to all of those, do so now. 1690 00:59:15,325 --> 00:59:18,205 Remember, learn more about disclosing betrayal from Jeffer 1691 00:59:18,345 --> 00:59:20,965 by visiting leading saints.org/fourteen. 1692 00:59:31,225 --> 00:59:34,405 - It came as a result of the position of leadership, 1693 00:59:34,405 --> 00:59:38,165 which was imposed upon us by the God of heaven, 1694 00:59:38,305 --> 00:59:41,765 who brought forth a restoration of the gospel 1695 00:59:41,945 --> 00:59:43,285 of Jesus Christ. 1696 00:59:43,985 --> 00:59:47,565 And when the declaration was made concerning the own 1697 00:59:47,665 --> 00:59:48,765 and only true 1698 00:59:48,765 --> 00:59:51,325 and living church upon the face of the earth, 1699 00:59:52,105 --> 00:59:55,285 we were immediately put in a position of loneliness. 1700 00:59:55,545 --> 00:59:59,165 The loneliness of leadership from which we cannot 1701 00:59:59,425 --> 01:00:00,845 shrink nor run away. 1702 01:00:01,785 --> 01:00:05,605 And to which we must face up with boldness and courage 1703 01:00:06,305 --> 01:00:06,925 and ability.