1 00:00:00,095 --> 00:00:00,135 - 2 00:00:03,945 --> 00:00:05,415 - How's your teaching calling going? 3 00:00:05,805 --> 00:00:08,095 Have you ever asked a question during the second hour 4 00:00:08,195 --> 00:00:10,815 and suddenly everyone is looking at the carpet in silence? 5 00:00:11,305 --> 00:00:14,095 There are proven methods to stimulate class discussion 6 00:00:14,095 --> 00:00:15,255 that work like a charm. 7 00:00:15,545 --> 00:00:18,855 David Farmsworth does a masterful job presenting on this 8 00:00:18,885 --> 00:00:22,175 very subject in the Teaching Saints Virtual Library. 9 00:00:22,965 --> 00:00:24,415 What questions? Get people talking? 10 00:00:24,875 --> 00:00:26,215 How can you effectively listen 11 00:00:26,215 --> 00:00:29,095 to the answer they're saying without being distracted of 12 00:00:29,145 --> 00:00:30,655 where you wanna take the class next? 13 00:00:31,265 --> 00:00:33,255 These are crucial principles to consider, 14 00:00:33,255 --> 00:00:36,055 especially in this time of Come Follow Me Sunday School. 15 00:00:36,475 --> 00:00:39,095 You can watch David Farnsworth presentation 16 00:00:39,155 --> 00:00:42,255 by visiting leading saints.org/fourteen. 17 00:00:42,665 --> 00:00:45,335 There you can gain free access for 14 days 18 00:00:45,395 --> 00:00:47,215 to the Teaching Saints Virtual Library, 19 00:00:47,505 --> 00:00:48,655 where you'll find hours 20 00:00:48,835 --> 00:00:50,975 and hours of content to help you be a 21 00:00:50,975 --> 00:00:52,415 better prepared Sunday teacher. 22 00:00:58,235 --> 00:01:01,295 So my name is Kurt Frankham and I am the founder 23 00:01:01,395 --> 00:01:03,415 and executive director of Leading Saints 24 00:01:03,435 --> 00:01:06,175 and obviously the host of the Leading Saints podcast. 25 00:01:06,395 --> 00:01:09,935 Now, I started Leading Saints back in 2010. 26 00:01:09,935 --> 00:01:12,735 It was just a hobby blog and it grew from there. 27 00:01:12,835 --> 00:01:16,575 By the time, uh, 2014 came around, we started the podcast, 28 00:01:16,835 --> 00:01:18,215 and that's really when it got some, 29 00:01:18,595 --> 00:01:20,015 uh, traction and took off. 30 00:01:20,075 --> 00:01:24,455 Uh, 2016, we became a 5 0 1 C3 nonprofit organization, 31 00:01:24,595 --> 00:01:26,175 and we've been growing ever since. 32 00:01:26,195 --> 00:01:28,535 And now I get the opportunity of interviewing 33 00:01:28,555 --> 00:01:31,335 and talking with remarkable people all over the world. 34 00:01:31,715 --> 00:01:34,575 Now, this is a segment we do on the Leading Saints podcast 35 00:01:34,715 --> 00:01:38,335 called How I Lead, and we reach out to everyday leaders. 36 00:01:38,335 --> 00:01:41,615 They're not experts, gurus, authors, PhDs. 37 00:01:41,615 --> 00:01:43,575 They're just everyday leaders who've been asked 38 00:01:43,595 --> 00:01:45,815 to serve in a specific leadership calling. 39 00:01:45,835 --> 00:01:48,215 And we simply ask them, how is it that you lead? 40 00:01:48,475 --> 00:01:50,295 And they go through some remarkable principles 41 00:01:50,295 --> 00:01:53,015 that should be in a book that should be behind a PhD. 42 00:01:53,405 --> 00:01:54,695 They're usually that good. 43 00:01:55,075 --> 00:01:57,055 And, uh, we just talk about, uh, sharing 44 00:01:57,055 --> 00:01:58,135 what the other guy's doing. 45 00:01:58,435 --> 00:02:00,975 And I remember being a leader just simply wanting to know, 46 00:02:01,165 --> 00:02:02,695 okay, I know what I'm trying to do, 47 00:02:02,715 --> 00:02:03,815 but what's the other guy doing? 48 00:02:03,815 --> 00:02:06,375 What's working for him? And so that's why every Wednesday 49 00:02:06,375 --> 00:02:09,575 or so we publish these How I lead segments to share, 50 00:02:39,275 --> 00:02:40,015 Hey, it's Wednesday. 51 00:02:40,015 --> 00:02:41,095 That means we're recording 52 00:02:41,155 --> 00:02:42,695 and sharing another episode 53 00:02:42,695 --> 00:02:44,935 of the How I Lead Segment on the Leading Saints Podcast. 54 00:02:45,355 --> 00:02:47,615 And if it's not Wednesday, if it's Thursday, you know, 55 00:02:47,615 --> 00:02:49,855 we're just doing our best to stay on our schedule here. 56 00:02:49,855 --> 00:02:52,535 But nonetheless, we're always getting you at least two 57 00:02:52,535 --> 00:02:53,735 episodes out every week. 58 00:02:53,745 --> 00:02:55,495 Wednesdays we do the How I Lead Segment 59 00:02:56,175 --> 00:02:57,575 Saturdays we do a much more topic 60 00:02:57,675 --> 00:02:59,685 or expert focused discussion, 61 00:02:59,865 --> 00:03:02,085 and, uh, they're just great, they're fantastic. 62 00:03:02,265 --> 00:03:05,445 And this, in this episode, we're headed over to England, 63 00:03:05,745 --> 00:03:08,405 the UK to talk with Georgia Traverse, 64 00:03:08,865 --> 00:03:10,565 and she lives just north 65 00:03:10,585 --> 00:03:13,045 of London in a fantastic ward there. 66 00:03:13,045 --> 00:03:14,685 I actually know her bishop quite well as well, 67 00:03:15,225 --> 00:03:17,525 and we should probably get him on the podcast. 68 00:03:17,825 --> 00:03:19,205 But, uh, that's for another time. 69 00:03:19,585 --> 00:03:21,405 And Georgia is a convert to the church. 70 00:03:21,505 --> 00:03:23,365 She joined when she was 20 years old. 71 00:03:23,365 --> 00:03:25,325 So we spend a few minutes at the beginning 72 00:03:25,325 --> 00:03:27,405 of the episode hearing her conversion story, 73 00:03:27,625 --> 00:03:30,325 and then she gets into the details of her being called 74 00:03:30,345 --> 00:03:33,005 as a Relief Society President, how she began that role, 75 00:03:33,585 --> 00:03:36,845 and, uh, pay attention to how she focuses 76 00:03:37,145 --> 00:03:40,325 and utilizes relief society council meetings. 77 00:03:40,425 --> 00:03:42,165 Man, I need to get back into the handbook and, 78 00:03:42,345 --> 00:03:45,085 and really understand, uh, what the guidelines are 79 00:03:45,105 --> 00:03:47,605 or the guidance for these council meetings, uh, 80 00:03:47,605 --> 00:03:49,325 because they could be a powerful concept. 81 00:03:49,465 --> 00:03:52,565 And I would guess most relief societies aren't leveraging 82 00:03:53,065 --> 00:03:55,365 the power of a council in the context 83 00:03:55,585 --> 00:03:57,525 of a relief society meeting. 84 00:03:57,985 --> 00:04:00,485 So let's learn more about what's happening within the church 85 00:04:00,595 --> 00:04:02,205 over just north of London. 86 00:04:02,705 --> 00:04:05,125 And I think you'll appreciate Georgia's English accent, 87 00:04:05,125 --> 00:04:07,565 which we need more of here on the Leading Saints podcast, 88 00:04:07,675 --> 00:04:09,685 just like we're getting more of in general conference. 89 00:04:09,685 --> 00:04:12,685 So here's my interview with Georgia Traverse Evert. 90 00:04:42,435 --> 00:04:44,665 Today we're, uh, headed to the other side of the world 91 00:04:44,685 --> 00:04:46,665 to chat with, uh, Georgia Traverse. How are ya? 92 00:04:47,615 --> 00:04:48,865 - Yeah, good. Great. 93 00:04:49,085 --> 00:04:50,785 Um, it's nice to be here on this podcast. 94 00:04:51,295 --> 00:04:52,465 - Yeah, I'm excited to do it. 95 00:04:52,465 --> 00:04:56,025 And now you, um, many people may not re realize this, 96 00:04:56,085 --> 00:04:57,225 but, uh, a year 97 00:04:57,225 --> 00:04:58,825 or so ago I, uh, 98 00:04:59,105 --> 00:05:01,025 acquired the podcast called This Week in 99 00:05:01,025 --> 00:05:02,145 Mormons, and Mm-Hmm. 100 00:05:02,185 --> 00:05:03,345 , I got that from, uh, 101 00:05:03,345 --> 00:05:05,345 I purchased it from Jeff Openshaw who wanted 102 00:05:05,345 --> 00:05:07,745 to retire from the podcasting world. 103 00:05:07,845 --> 00:05:11,585 And you, uh, often co-host on that podcast as well. 104 00:05:11,645 --> 00:05:13,825 So if people love Georgia's voice 105 00:05:13,845 --> 00:05:15,865 and wants to hear more of it, you can uh, 106 00:05:16,215 --> 00:05:17,585 find her this week in Mormons. 107 00:05:17,585 --> 00:05:18,705 Right. Has that been enjoyable for you? 108 00:05:19,415 --> 00:05:20,985 - Yeah, it's, it's been brilliant. 109 00:05:21,055 --> 00:05:23,385 It's been really fun, uh, to record the podcast 110 00:05:23,605 --> 00:05:26,585 and to find out about, about new church news. 111 00:05:26,785 --> 00:05:28,225 I suppose I'm often not tapped 112 00:05:28,375 --> 00:05:30,265 into into the news of the church. 113 00:05:30,325 --> 00:05:31,345 So it's been nice to delve 114 00:05:31,345 --> 00:05:32,505 into it in a little bit more detail. 115 00:05:32,935 --> 00:05:35,145 - Yeah. And it's always good, which is part 116 00:05:35,145 --> 00:05:36,305 of why we're recording today, 117 00:05:36,305 --> 00:05:38,905 to get an international perspective, you know, outside 118 00:05:38,905 --> 00:05:41,945 of the United States, whether it's about, uh, church news 119 00:05:41,965 --> 00:05:43,145 or even about leadership. 120 00:05:43,205 --> 00:05:45,705 And so that's why I always love having some international 121 00:05:45,705 --> 00:05:48,185 voices on here, some accents like yours. 122 00:05:48,365 --> 00:05:50,665 And, uh, so it's good to, good to have you here too. 123 00:05:51,355 --> 00:05:53,905 - Thank you. Yeah, I did notice at general conference 124 00:05:54,185 --> 00:05:56,665 actually how many different voices there were, 125 00:05:56,665 --> 00:05:57,710 which was quite nice. 126 00:05:57,710 --> 00:06:00,325 This most recent conference. So we are a global church. 127 00:06:00,705 --> 00:06:02,605 - That's right. And it's good to hear more 128 00:06:02,605 --> 00:06:04,885 and more accents, uh, during general conference for sure. 129 00:06:04,955 --> 00:06:06,405 Certain diverse accents. 130 00:06:06,405 --> 00:06:09,485 Anyways, so now you live in, I'm, let's see if I can get it. 131 00:06:09,505 --> 00:06:11,045 St. Alban's. St. 132 00:06:11,165 --> 00:06:12,525 - Alban's. Yeah. - Albans . 133 00:06:12,715 --> 00:06:14,605 It's our, hard to say with a, an American accent, 134 00:06:14,625 --> 00:06:16,085 but that's just north of London. 135 00:06:16,185 --> 00:06:18,205 And are you born and raised in that area? 136 00:06:19,125 --> 00:06:20,455 - Yeah, actually, I, 137 00:06:20,815 --> 00:06:23,415 I grew up about 20 minutes from where I live at the moment. 138 00:06:23,655 --> 00:06:24,735 I moved away for eight years. 139 00:06:24,835 --> 00:06:26,535 So I went to university in Bristol. 140 00:06:26,775 --> 00:06:29,815 I moved to Australia, then I lived in Oxford in England, 141 00:06:29,915 --> 00:06:32,375 and Surrey in England where Harry Potter's from. 142 00:06:32,955 --> 00:06:36,415 And then I moved back to Hartfordshire about, well, near St. 143 00:06:36,615 --> 00:06:38,095 Ban's in Hartfordshire about four years ago. 144 00:06:38,595 --> 00:06:39,615 - Oh, okay. And now, 145 00:06:39,615 --> 00:06:40,655 and if I remember right, your 146 00:06:40,655 --> 00:06:42,015 husband's Australian, is that right? 147 00:06:42,635 --> 00:06:43,655 - Yep, he's Australian. 148 00:06:43,655 --> 00:06:46,455 So we lived in Tasmania for a year, so pretty much 149 00:06:46,595 --> 00:06:48,015 as far away as you can get from England. 150 00:06:48,675 --> 00:06:51,575 - Wow. So Tasmania really exists, huh? . Yeah, 151 00:06:51,695 --> 00:06:53,695 - I knew it did, but it does, it's, it's not just the, uh, 152 00:06:53,695 --> 00:06:56,135 the cartoon Tasmanian devil that is an actual place 153 00:06:56,525 --> 00:06:57,525 - Know. 154 00:06:57,525 --> 00:06:59,215 Nice. And I, uh, I'm trying to think on, uh, 155 00:06:59,365 --> 00:07:03,295 somewhere I heard that Tasmania would maybe be a potential, 156 00:07:03,555 --> 00:07:05,615 uh, site for a, a temple just 157 00:07:05,615 --> 00:07:07,695 because it's, it's an island, it's sort of secluded. 158 00:07:07,695 --> 00:07:09,535 Does it? What's it, what's it like going 159 00:07:09,535 --> 00:07:11,895 to the temple when you live in Tasmania? 160 00:07:12,285 --> 00:07:13,655 - Yeah, that is a brilliant question. 161 00:07:13,675 --> 00:07:15,855 So the nearest temple is Melbourne, so that's actually 162 00:07:15,855 --> 00:07:17,655 where we were married and we had to fly over. 163 00:07:18,095 --> 00:07:20,935 I took my wedding dress on the plane, um, I put it in the, 164 00:07:21,155 --> 00:07:22,335 um, in the cabin. 165 00:07:22,525 --> 00:07:24,375 They let me lay it on top of the, uh, 166 00:07:24,835 --> 00:07:25,855 all the other suitcases. 167 00:07:26,155 --> 00:07:28,895 So yeah, you have to fly to go to a temple. Wow. 168 00:07:28,955 --> 00:07:30,415 So, it is tricky. 169 00:07:30,555 --> 00:07:34,135 It would be amazing to have a temple in Tasmania. Wow. 170 00:07:34,135 --> 00:07:36,095 There, there's a fairly strong, uh, 171 00:07:36,095 --> 00:07:37,615 group of saints over there. Um, 172 00:07:37,815 --> 00:07:38,615 - I bet. Wow. 173 00:07:38,635 --> 00:07:40,295 - That's cool. Yeah, they were two stakes. Yeah. 174 00:07:41,115 --> 00:07:44,215 - So let's start a little bit, uh, I don't know which story 175 00:07:44,215 --> 00:07:46,175 to start with, but maybe let's go with your conversion. 176 00:07:46,375 --> 00:07:47,935 'cause you're, uh, a convert to the church. 177 00:07:48,075 --> 00:07:49,255 It, was it in your late teens 178 00:07:49,275 --> 00:07:51,015 or early twenties? What's the story behind that? 179 00:07:51,175 --> 00:07:54,575 - I was 20. Yeah. I was at university, so I, 180 00:07:54,935 --> 00:07:56,855 I was a very curious child. 181 00:07:57,415 --> 00:07:58,975 I was, I'm one 182 00:07:58,975 --> 00:08:01,495 of those old souls who's just always been interested 183 00:08:01,555 --> 00:08:02,695 in really deep questions. 184 00:08:02,915 --> 00:08:04,815 So even when I was six years old, 185 00:08:05,455 --> 00:08:08,425 I was thinking about why am I here? 186 00:08:08,475 --> 00:08:11,945 Where did I come from? And asking all the big questions. 187 00:08:12,205 --> 00:08:15,305 And my family are pretty much the most non-religious people 188 00:08:15,335 --> 00:08:16,665 that you would come across. 189 00:08:17,525 --> 00:08:19,745 So asking them the questions, you know, 190 00:08:19,825 --> 00:08:23,025 I didn't really get the answers that I was hoping for. 191 00:08:24,025 --> 00:08:28,305 I did go to a Catholic school, so we would say prayers, um, 192 00:08:28,805 --> 00:08:30,665 at the end of the day and at lunchtime 193 00:08:30,845 --> 00:08:32,705 and, um, at various other times. 194 00:08:32,845 --> 00:08:35,985 And we'd go to, uh, we'd have assemblies, kind 195 00:08:35,985 --> 00:08:37,305 of like a mass, I suppose. 196 00:08:38,125 --> 00:08:40,105 And I got something from that definitely. 197 00:08:40,525 --> 00:08:41,545 Um, but I didn't, 198 00:08:42,325 --> 00:08:44,825 it didn't quite resonate with me, I suppose. 199 00:08:45,685 --> 00:08:47,305 And then I got a bit older, 200 00:08:47,885 --> 00:08:50,865 and in my teenage years, that was when I was really, 201 00:08:50,865 --> 00:08:53,945 really curious about, just about the world, 202 00:08:54,205 --> 00:08:55,645 not just from a religious perspective, 203 00:08:55,665 --> 00:08:57,245 but also from a scientific perspective. 204 00:08:57,585 --> 00:09:00,085 And, um, I'll go more into that later. 205 00:09:00,865 --> 00:09:04,205 But I, um, yeah, I was just absolutely fascinated 206 00:09:04,425 --> 00:09:05,965 by just these big questions. 207 00:09:06,225 --> 00:09:08,805 So was asking all the time, 208 00:09:08,805 --> 00:09:11,005 almost every day it occupied my thoughts. 209 00:09:11,745 --> 00:09:15,965 And I had the opportunity to study at school religion, 210 00:09:16,345 --> 00:09:18,045 and I had the wonderful opportunity 211 00:09:18,065 --> 00:09:20,005 to study Islam for two years. 212 00:09:20,665 --> 00:09:21,725 So that was fun. 213 00:09:22,105 --> 00:09:24,245 And found out, you know, a lot of, 214 00:09:24,485 --> 00:09:27,005 I suppose a textbook understanding of, of that religion 215 00:09:27,025 --> 00:09:29,285 and that faith, which helps me nowadays. 216 00:09:29,585 --> 00:09:32,965 Uh, there are a lot of parallels, uh, between our faith 217 00:09:32,985 --> 00:09:35,005 and between Islam, which is wonderful. 218 00:09:35,545 --> 00:09:37,325 Um, but yeah, it wasn't, 219 00:09:37,325 --> 00:09:38,765 it just wasn't quite clicking with me. 220 00:09:38,775 --> 00:09:40,445 There were a few big questions I had. 221 00:09:40,705 --> 00:09:44,485 Um, and then I, I got into the final years of school 222 00:09:44,905 --> 00:09:47,525 and I took, in England we have a 223 00:09:47,805 --> 00:09:49,005 qualification called an A Level. 224 00:09:49,065 --> 00:09:50,805 So it's the final two years of school. 225 00:09:50,905 --> 00:09:52,605 You take your A levels, typically you pick 226 00:09:52,615 --> 00:09:53,765 three or four subjects. 227 00:09:54,185 --> 00:09:57,285 So I picked physics, maths, philosophy, and French. 228 00:09:57,625 --> 00:09:58,765 So a really good mix there. 229 00:09:58,825 --> 00:10:03,085 And in the philosophy class, I learned about William Paley. 230 00:10:03,185 --> 00:10:06,245 So he's, um, from the 17 hundreds, 231 00:10:06,505 --> 00:10:11,005 and he has, um, an argument which is based in teleology, 232 00:10:11,145 --> 00:10:13,565 the teleological argument. Have you heard of it? 233 00:10:14,145 --> 00:10:16,085 - Uh, no. That's okay. New to me. 234 00:10:16,675 --> 00:10:19,325 - Well, it, it really resonated with me. 235 00:10:19,425 --> 00:10:22,965 And what he said is, we can look around us in nature 236 00:10:23,825 --> 00:10:25,885 and we can see the intricacies 237 00:10:26,105 --> 00:10:28,965 and the, the sort of majesty of creation. 238 00:10:29,945 --> 00:10:33,205 And that leads us to thinking that there is a creator. 239 00:10:33,865 --> 00:10:37,285 So it's, it's sort of basing your understanding 240 00:10:37,505 --> 00:10:40,245 of a creator on the world around you. 241 00:10:40,385 --> 00:10:42,405 So there's a famous argument, the watch argument. 242 00:10:42,555 --> 00:10:43,685 Imagine you're on a beach 243 00:10:44,025 --> 00:10:47,125 and just out of nowhere you see a, a watch, 244 00:10:47,305 --> 00:10:49,045 and you look at the watch and it's got the hands 245 00:10:49,045 --> 00:10:51,725 and it's got, um, this, this intricate watch. 246 00:10:52,735 --> 00:10:54,765 Would you think that there was a 247 00:10:54,765 --> 00:10:56,565 watchmaker behind the watch? 248 00:10:57,235 --> 00:10:58,365 - Yeah, absolutely. 249 00:10:59,335 --> 00:11:00,475 - You would, right? Yeah. So 250 00:11:00,695 --> 00:11:02,195 that's the same with the world around us. 251 00:11:02,255 --> 00:11:04,995 We can look at the, the cosmos, we can look at the stars, 252 00:11:05,135 --> 00:11:07,075 and we can look at the, the planets 253 00:11:07,075 --> 00:11:09,555 and we can look at everything around us. 254 00:11:10,255 --> 00:11:13,915 And it's amazing. And somehow people don't think 255 00:11:13,915 --> 00:11:15,195 they're the creator behind that. 256 00:11:15,295 --> 00:11:19,235 But for me, as a 17-year-old, that just really hit me. 257 00:11:19,255 --> 00:11:21,115 And I mean, I was writing essays about this, 258 00:11:21,235 --> 00:11:22,555 I was learning about this at school, 259 00:11:22,855 --> 00:11:24,435 and I was thinking, yeah, this, 260 00:11:24,825 --> 00:11:26,595 this really matches up with what I think. 261 00:11:27,175 --> 00:11:31,955 So by that point, I was, I was really invested in this idea 262 00:11:32,055 --> 00:11:33,075 of something divine. 263 00:11:33,455 --> 00:11:35,835 And then it was over the next couple of years as I went 264 00:11:35,835 --> 00:11:37,635 to university, all about finding out 265 00:11:38,645 --> 00:11:40,595 which religion was the right one. 266 00:11:41,075 --> 00:11:43,115 'cause there's so many, right? There's so many. 267 00:11:43,175 --> 00:11:46,075 And, and which one was the one that was the one for me? 268 00:11:46,135 --> 00:11:48,955 And which one would match up with what I felt? 269 00:11:49,295 --> 00:11:50,875 I'm, I'm very much a feelings person. 270 00:11:51,025 --> 00:11:53,605 What would, what did I feel? What's right? 271 00:11:54,305 --> 00:11:57,285 Um, and, and ultimately it led me to this church. 272 00:11:57,555 --> 00:11:59,645 Nice church of Jesus Christ for last day Saints. 273 00:11:59,865 --> 00:12:02,005 - So how did you originally get in contact with the church? 274 00:12:03,305 --> 00:12:06,525 - It is a funny story, which I will tell briefly. Okay. 275 00:12:06,645 --> 00:12:08,245 , I was given a leaflet, 276 00:12:09,145 --> 00:12:11,285 and it was a plan of salvation leaflet 277 00:12:11,285 --> 00:12:12,605 with Jesus Christ on the front. 278 00:12:12,925 --> 00:12:14,485 I was in my second year of university, 279 00:12:14,945 --> 00:12:16,885 and on the back it said mormon.org. 280 00:12:17,165 --> 00:12:18,285 I went on mormon.org. 281 00:12:18,485 --> 00:12:19,965 I, the first thing that came up was 282 00:12:19,965 --> 00:12:21,765 that you could request missionaries to come round. 283 00:12:22,145 --> 00:12:26,085 And I loved debating religious topics with people. 284 00:12:26,105 --> 00:12:28,485 So I thought, great, I'll get, I'll get some people round 285 00:12:28,545 --> 00:12:31,125 and I'll, I'll kind of bash their religion 286 00:12:31,225 --> 00:12:32,245 and I'll prove them wrong. 287 00:12:32,265 --> 00:12:34,525 And then they can, they can go on their merry way out the 288 00:12:34,525 --> 00:12:36,285 door and, and that'll all be good. 289 00:12:37,025 --> 00:12:38,645 And so I invited them round. 290 00:12:38,645 --> 00:12:42,125 They came round, and for the first maybe six weeks, 291 00:12:42,225 --> 00:12:46,005 it was just this sort of really difficult back 292 00:12:46,005 --> 00:12:50,365 and forth of, of me just arguing, being really argumentative 293 00:12:50,465 --> 00:12:52,125 and really putting up a fight. 294 00:12:52,785 --> 00:12:55,165 And then eventually I just conceded 295 00:12:55,385 --> 00:12:57,445 and let the spirit work on me. 296 00:12:57,705 --> 00:12:59,965 And I haven't looked back. 297 00:12:59,965 --> 00:13:01,845 It, it totally has transformed my life. 298 00:13:02,605 --> 00:13:05,485 - Hmm. That's awesome. Alright, now let's, uh, fast forward 299 00:13:05,505 --> 00:13:08,325 to, uh, several years in the future. 300 00:13:08,505 --> 00:13:10,645 You were called as Relief Society President. 301 00:13:10,665 --> 00:13:12,365 So what's the story behind you being called 302 00:13:12,385 --> 00:13:13,805 as the Relief Society President? 303 00:13:14,745 --> 00:13:16,085 - You know, that's a great question. 304 00:13:16,605 --> 00:13:18,885 I knew that I was going to get called 305 00:13:18,905 --> 00:13:21,005 as Relief Society President before it happened. 306 00:13:21,485 --> 00:13:24,885 I had a feeling the morning that, so 307 00:13:24,905 --> 00:13:28,085 before the bishop asked to meet with me, I, 308 00:13:28,245 --> 00:13:31,285 I woke up one morning and I thought, I'm gonna get called 309 00:13:31,285 --> 00:13:32,605 as Relief Society president. 310 00:13:33,105 --> 00:13:35,765 And then sure enough, the bishop texted me, said, 311 00:13:36,245 --> 00:13:37,245 I wanna come around to your house. 312 00:13:37,245 --> 00:13:39,085 This was during Covid, uh, 313 00:13:39,225 --> 00:13:41,445 we must've been allowed people at our houses by that point. 314 00:13:42,225 --> 00:13:44,605 And he came round and he said, we'd like to extend the call 315 00:13:44,605 --> 00:13:46,205 as as Relief Society president. 316 00:13:46,265 --> 00:13:48,165 And it was the first time in my life 317 00:13:48,255 --> 00:13:49,685 where I've received a calling 318 00:13:49,995 --> 00:13:53,125 that I felt like I'd been prepared for in ad in advance. 319 00:13:53,445 --> 00:13:55,125 I felt like I knew that it was coming, 320 00:13:55,505 --> 00:13:58,285 and I knew that it was the right time for me 321 00:13:58,345 --> 00:13:59,725 to be Relief Society president. 322 00:14:00,025 --> 00:14:03,085 And I've been, uh, relief Society president for 323 00:14:03,765 --> 00:14:05,125 just coming up on three years now. 324 00:14:05,705 --> 00:14:08,325 - Oh, wow. Wow. So a good long experience there. 325 00:14:08,325 --> 00:14:09,645 That's fantastic. Mm-Hmm. . 326 00:14:09,645 --> 00:14:12,565 So, I'm, I'm curious, when you began, uh, you know, 327 00:14:12,565 --> 00:14:14,365 you're set apart, you begin on this calling 328 00:14:14,385 --> 00:14:16,805 as Relief Society President, uh, with just your, 329 00:14:16,835 --> 00:14:20,045 your background, uh, being a convert, being, you know, 330 00:14:20,045 --> 00:14:23,125 that being raised as, as a curious individual 331 00:14:23,125 --> 00:14:24,365 with a religion and whatnot. 332 00:14:24,705 --> 00:14:27,965 How did that, how did that begin to impact just starting in 333 00:14:27,965 --> 00:14:29,845 that role as Relief Society president? 334 00:14:31,315 --> 00:14:33,245 - Well, I think being a convert is both 335 00:14:33,325 --> 00:14:34,445 a strength and a weakness. 336 00:14:34,795 --> 00:14:36,525 It's a weakness in that, I don't know 337 00:14:36,545 --> 00:14:38,245 how things are generally done, 338 00:14:39,105 --> 00:14:41,685 but then it's also, that is the same strength. 339 00:14:41,695 --> 00:14:44,005 Right? Exactly. Yeah. I can, I can reinvent things 340 00:14:44,025 --> 00:14:45,765 and I can do things the way that I want to do them. 341 00:14:46,345 --> 00:14:48,605 So at first there were a few teething issues 342 00:14:49,075 --> 00:14:53,845 because I just didn't know what I was meant to be doing. 343 00:14:54,465 --> 00:14:56,525 So I had to rely on the handbook. 344 00:14:56,705 --> 00:14:59,245 And I relied heavily on the previous Relief Society 345 00:14:59,245 --> 00:15:01,325 president and asked her so many questions 346 00:15:01,675 --> 00:15:05,805 because I felt entirely underqualified for the role. 347 00:15:06,265 --> 00:15:09,765 And we have a lot of, uh, very 348 00:15:10,295 --> 00:15:12,525 incredible people in our ward. 349 00:15:12,795 --> 00:15:17,525 Very, uh, experienced members who I just felt like 350 00:15:18,365 --> 00:15:19,365 I was very surprised 351 00:15:19,365 --> 00:15:21,245 that I was being called to lead those sisters. 352 00:15:21,705 --> 00:15:23,485 Uh, about a year ago. 353 00:15:23,685 --> 00:15:25,485 I feel like I moved into the role in a way 354 00:15:26,155 --> 00:15:29,325 that I understood why I had been called. 355 00:15:29,625 --> 00:15:31,605 And I feel now, 356 00:15:31,605 --> 00:15:34,805 like I'm really bringing my unique perspective to the table. 357 00:15:35,035 --> 00:15:37,205 Because the other thing about me that I've not mentioned 358 00:15:37,225 --> 00:15:38,605 yet is that I'm a physicist. 359 00:15:38,865 --> 00:15:41,245 So I'm a physics teacher, secondary school physics teacher. 360 00:15:41,425 --> 00:15:45,665 And that comes in a lot into my, my sort of gospel practice 361 00:15:46,055 --> 00:15:48,345 because I just, I love it. 362 00:15:48,425 --> 00:15:50,705 I love being scientific and I love being religious. 363 00:15:50,725 --> 00:15:52,905 For me, , that's great. They're really similar. 364 00:15:53,205 --> 00:15:54,665 For most people. They're really different. 365 00:15:54,695 --> 00:15:56,585 They think science and religion can't go together, 366 00:15:56,605 --> 00:15:57,785 but for me, they really do. 367 00:15:58,365 --> 00:16:01,145 So that's been a nice perspective to be able 368 00:16:01,145 --> 00:16:02,745 to add into things, into the mix as well. 369 00:16:03,375 --> 00:16:04,705 - Yeah. So tell me more about that. 370 00:16:05,145 --> 00:16:07,105 I mean, how does that manifest itself when you're, 371 00:16:07,255 --> 00:16:09,465 when you're perceiving the gospel through the scientific 372 00:16:09,525 --> 00:16:10,545 and the spiritual lens? 373 00:16:11,915 --> 00:16:14,285 - Well, I think I just have an understanding of 374 00:16:14,425 --> 00:16:17,365 how things work from the physics side of things. 375 00:16:18,145 --> 00:16:21,805 So for example, force equals mass times acceleration. 376 00:16:22,545 --> 00:16:24,845 But then the why of 377 00:16:25,785 --> 00:16:30,725 why a ball will drop if I let go of it, that's down to, to 378 00:16:30,745 --> 00:16:32,605 to God, to, to religion. 379 00:16:32,745 --> 00:16:36,325 So science for me answers the how religion answers the why. 380 00:16:36,825 --> 00:16:39,085 And I think if you are just religious 381 00:16:39,305 --> 00:16:40,725 and you're not at all scientific, 382 00:16:41,185 --> 00:16:46,125 you maybe don't have the added depth of the understanding 383 00:16:46,125 --> 00:16:47,485 of the natural world around you. 384 00:16:47,585 --> 00:16:52,055 And then similarly, if you are just, uh, scientific 385 00:16:52,115 --> 00:16:55,095 and you give no place to religion, then you, 386 00:16:55,515 --> 00:16:58,215 you have no understanding of of, of why you are here. 387 00:16:58,395 --> 00:16:59,815 You know, so many people in my, 388 00:17:00,115 --> 00:17:03,535 in my physics cohort at university, were, were 389 00:17:03,635 --> 00:17:07,535 so strongly atheist and we're studying these amazing things. 390 00:17:07,555 --> 00:17:09,935 You know, we're looking at, uh, particle physics, 391 00:17:10,035 --> 00:17:13,855 and we're looking at, you know, what is inside an atom 392 00:17:13,995 --> 00:17:18,935 and how that, uh, helped the universe to form in those very, 393 00:17:18,935 --> 00:17:20,255 very early moments. 394 00:17:20,515 --> 00:17:22,535 You know, we're looking at all of those kinds of things, 395 00:17:23,195 --> 00:17:24,775 and nobody is stopping 396 00:17:24,995 --> 00:17:27,455 and thinking why all of this has happened. 397 00:17:27,715 --> 00:17:30,775 You know, in physics, we've got, um, one of the, one 398 00:17:30,775 --> 00:17:32,455 of the principles of physics, 399 00:17:32,595 --> 00:17:34,375 energy cannot be created or destroyed. 400 00:17:34,375 --> 00:17:35,615 You've heard of that, right? Mm-Hmm. Energy 401 00:17:35,615 --> 00:17:36,775 cannot be created or destroyed. 402 00:17:36,775 --> 00:17:39,695 Only trans transferred from one form to another to another. 403 00:17:40,635 --> 00:17:43,055 But how did the energy get there in the first place if it 404 00:17:43,055 --> 00:17:44,895 can't be created or destroyed? 405 00:17:45,115 --> 00:17:47,455 You know, there's these big voids within science 406 00:17:47,485 --> 00:17:49,055 that we just, we don't 407 00:17:49,635 --> 00:17:52,085 necessarily think about if we're just thinking from 408 00:17:52,165 --> 00:17:53,205 a scientific lens. 409 00:17:53,265 --> 00:17:56,565 But then if we add a religious lens to it, 410 00:17:56,565 --> 00:17:58,485 the two can work really nicely in harmony. 411 00:17:58,595 --> 00:17:59,925 Yeah. At least that's what I've found. 412 00:18:00,435 --> 00:18:02,165 - Yeah. Because yeah, even through science, 413 00:18:02,165 --> 00:18:05,245 there's still gaps that require faith or, or big questions. 414 00:18:05,245 --> 00:18:08,205 Right. There still haven't been, uh, proven or understood. 415 00:18:08,205 --> 00:18:10,965 There's so many theories in, in science, right. 416 00:18:11,105 --> 00:18:12,405 And something's behind those 417 00:18:12,405 --> 00:18:13,685 theories that takes some faith. Right? 418 00:18:14,315 --> 00:18:15,685 - Yeah. And I, 419 00:18:15,925 --> 00:18:17,805 I talk about this in the classroom all the time 420 00:18:17,805 --> 00:18:21,605 because we, um, we teach physics essentially 421 00:18:21,985 --> 00:18:23,285 as one big theory 422 00:18:23,635 --> 00:18:25,445 because, you know, 423 00:18:25,445 --> 00:18:28,005 physics has been proven wrong on occasion. 424 00:18:28,745 --> 00:18:30,885 We used to think that the earth was 425 00:18:31,105 --> 00:18:32,245 the center of the universe. 426 00:18:32,865 --> 00:18:35,725 Now we know that it's not, it's just a tiny pinprick. 427 00:18:35,755 --> 00:18:38,045 It's not even, it's not even a pinprick. It's so small. 428 00:18:38,505 --> 00:18:41,925 Uh, we we're constantly replacing scientific theory 429 00:18:42,355 --> 00:18:45,085 with new scientific theory and, and new understanding. 430 00:18:45,235 --> 00:18:46,645 Understanding. And, and 431 00:18:46,645 --> 00:18:48,285 that's the scientific method in action. 432 00:18:48,785 --> 00:18:52,725 So for people to say that science is absolute, I I disagree 433 00:18:52,725 --> 00:18:54,525 with, and that seems to be the attitude of, 434 00:18:54,985 --> 00:18:57,965 of many physicists who are atheists, that they think 435 00:18:57,965 --> 00:18:59,805 that science is the truth. 436 00:19:00,505 --> 00:19:04,845 But actually I see absolutes within, within our faith. 437 00:19:05,265 --> 00:19:07,605 And then I see the science as the thing that's changing 438 00:19:07,705 --> 00:19:08,885 to adapt around the faith. 439 00:19:09,715 --> 00:19:11,885 - Yeah. So let's go back to those, uh, 440 00:19:11,915 --> 00:19:14,605 just beginning in your Relief society, president calling. 441 00:19:14,745 --> 00:19:17,445 Any any other stories or an anecdotes come to mind as far 442 00:19:17,445 --> 00:19:20,365 as, uh, how you, how you moved into that calling 443 00:19:20,425 --> 00:19:23,005 or what you learned as you were starting a calling? 444 00:19:24,405 --> 00:19:25,445 - I think I've learned, and, 445 00:19:25,545 --> 00:19:28,485 and I don't want to be critical here, so I'm, 446 00:19:28,545 --> 00:19:30,565 I'm gonna be careful with my words because Sure. 447 00:19:30,765 --> 00:19:33,835 I absolutely love our church. 448 00:19:34,615 --> 00:19:38,555 But I do think that it is quite rigid in the way 449 00:19:38,555 --> 00:19:39,755 that it does things sometimes. 450 00:19:40,335 --> 00:19:44,795 And I think we need to give a lot more thought to 451 00:19:44,975 --> 00:19:47,035 how we're doing things within our congregations, 452 00:19:47,465 --> 00:19:49,715 because I think that we could be doing things very 453 00:19:49,715 --> 00:19:51,755 differently and in a way that is more inclusive 454 00:19:51,815 --> 00:19:52,835 to the wider community. 455 00:19:53,255 --> 00:19:56,275 So in terms of what I've learnt as I've served, 456 00:19:56,995 --> 00:20:00,675 I suppose it's, um, for me personally, 457 00:20:00,995 --> 00:20:03,475 I feel like I've encountered a few brick walls 458 00:20:04,045 --> 00:20:08,035 where I've been surprised that I haven't been able to, 459 00:20:08,055 --> 00:20:09,795 to open that door, that it's been a wall 460 00:20:09,795 --> 00:20:10,995 rather than a door for me. 461 00:20:11,785 --> 00:20:14,195 That being said, the leadership that I work 462 00:20:14,195 --> 00:20:18,115 with in the local area have been nothing but incredible. 463 00:20:18,375 --> 00:20:19,915 You know, if I've, if I've had an idea, 464 00:20:19,915 --> 00:20:21,395 they've always given me time 465 00:20:21,775 --> 00:20:25,155 and always given me energy to express that idea 466 00:20:25,615 --> 00:20:28,675 and to explain to me why things are the way they are. 467 00:20:29,135 --> 00:20:32,595 But to give you a couple of examples, it has surprised me 468 00:20:32,595 --> 00:20:36,535 that women don't conduct more meetings. 469 00:20:36,955 --> 00:20:39,655 So, for example, a sacrament meeting, there's, to me, 470 00:20:39,655 --> 00:20:42,695 there's no reason why a woman couldn't conduct that. 471 00:20:42,835 --> 00:20:44,175 It doesn't necessarily need 472 00:20:44,175 --> 00:20:45,255 to be a member of the Bishop prick. 473 00:20:45,255 --> 00:20:46,295 It's just conducting, you know, 474 00:20:46,295 --> 00:20:47,920 the bishop prick can preside fine, 475 00:20:48,345 --> 00:20:51,565 but there's no reason why we can't add, you know, a more, 476 00:20:52,185 --> 00:20:55,925 uh, around more rounded approach to things. 477 00:20:56,785 --> 00:21:01,205 Uh, so yeah, that, that's been a bit of a surprise. 478 00:21:01,305 --> 00:21:03,835 And I think for me, uniquely, 479 00:21:04,145 --> 00:21:07,795 because I've been part of other churches over time, I sort 480 00:21:07,795 --> 00:21:11,155 of dotted around from church to church to church, trying 481 00:21:11,155 --> 00:21:12,875 to find the one that, that fitted for me. 482 00:21:13,305 --> 00:21:15,155 I've built up a, a repertoire of ideas 483 00:21:15,255 --> 00:21:17,155 and things that I've seen from other congregations 484 00:21:17,155 --> 00:21:18,475 that I absolutely love, 485 00:21:19,095 --> 00:21:20,555 and that I would love to be part 486 00:21:20,555 --> 00:21:22,715 of our faith, but which aren't. 487 00:21:23,055 --> 00:21:25,435 And, and the answer to, to why they're not, 488 00:21:25,715 --> 00:21:27,635 I haven't quite gotta yet. 489 00:21:28,905 --> 00:21:32,075 - Yeah. So, has any, uh, have any of those ideas, like, 490 00:21:32,175 --> 00:21:35,475 you know, obviously, uh, there's some ideas that maybe 491 00:21:36,335 --> 00:21:37,555 our culture or handbooks 492 00:21:37,555 --> 00:21:39,115 or whatnot aren't, aren't, aren't ready for yet. 493 00:21:39,135 --> 00:21:42,395 But are there any ideas that, uh, you have put forward and, 494 00:21:42,795 --> 00:21:46,435 and executed it on that, uh, are maybe more unorthodox? 495 00:21:48,005 --> 00:21:49,085 - I wouldn't say yet. No. 496 00:21:49,565 --> 00:21:53,485 I mean, I, I think I'm still in that kind 497 00:21:53,485 --> 00:21:54,805 of ideas phase of things. 498 00:21:54,805 --> 00:21:57,285 Yeah. I don't think I am, I don't think it's, 499 00:21:57,765 --> 00:21:59,765 anything's going to change in a hurry, but, 500 00:21:59,825 --> 00:22:02,325 but there are small things that we can do as part 501 00:22:02,325 --> 00:22:05,565 of our leadership that just changed maybe a tiny thing, 502 00:22:06,045 --> 00:22:08,565 a culture thing within, within our local congregations. 503 00:22:08,565 --> 00:22:10,205 Mm-Hmm. . So, one thing 504 00:22:10,205 --> 00:22:12,205 that I'm really passionate about at the moment is, 505 00:22:12,465 --> 00:22:13,485 is gospel music. 506 00:22:14,225 --> 00:22:17,925 So in the Church of England church that I used to attend, 507 00:22:18,095 --> 00:22:21,805 there was this huge worship portion of the meeting, 508 00:22:21,985 --> 00:22:23,485 and it was, it was the beginning of the meeting, 509 00:22:23,505 --> 00:22:24,805 and it was for about half an hour, 510 00:22:25,385 --> 00:22:26,445 and we would just get together 511 00:22:26,545 --> 00:22:28,165 and we would just worship Jesus. 512 00:22:28,465 --> 00:22:30,325 You know, and that's, that's what's important. 513 00:22:30,585 --> 00:22:32,645 That's, that's why we go to church, right? 514 00:22:32,665 --> 00:22:34,925 To deepen our, our relationship with Jesus Christ. 515 00:22:35,585 --> 00:22:38,645 And I'd turn up to this, this Church of England Church, 516 00:22:38,665 --> 00:22:40,725 and we would just have this amazing time 517 00:22:41,265 --> 00:22:45,925 of singing these songs and being really immersed in music. 518 00:22:46,065 --> 00:22:49,205 And I think music has the most wonderful transformative 519 00:22:49,415 --> 00:22:52,005 power within our, within our souls. 520 00:22:52,085 --> 00:22:53,405 I think music stirs our souls. 521 00:22:54,105 --> 00:22:56,285 And I would love to see that within our, 522 00:22:57,025 --> 00:22:58,525 within our worship services. 523 00:22:58,945 --> 00:23:00,925 You know, we have a sacrament meeting, 524 00:23:00,945 --> 00:23:03,645 and I understand that the sacrament is in incredibly 525 00:23:03,645 --> 00:23:07,125 important, and that's why we follow a schedule for the, 526 00:23:07,185 --> 00:23:08,245 for the sacrament meeting. 527 00:23:08,825 --> 00:23:11,285 But then I wonder if there's a way for us to be more, 528 00:23:12,465 --> 00:23:16,285 or I suppose to be less rigid sometimes in our approach. 529 00:23:17,445 --> 00:23:19,305 The other thing is just about inclusion. 530 00:23:19,605 --> 00:23:23,185 So the fir, you know, this is the first time I've been 531 00:23:23,185 --> 00:23:26,185 to a church where I'm expected to, to wear a Sunday best. 532 00:23:26,455 --> 00:23:28,345 Usually I'd be wearing casual clothes, 533 00:23:28,405 --> 00:23:31,145 and I feel much more comfortable in casual clothes. 534 00:23:31,145 --> 00:23:33,385 And I think for someone who attends church 535 00:23:33,405 --> 00:23:37,855 for the first time, it can be quite jaunting to turn up 536 00:23:37,855 --> 00:23:39,215 and to see people in suits. 537 00:23:39,275 --> 00:23:41,855 And you know, I've, I've never seen 538 00:23:42,595 --> 00:23:44,695 the church leaders in casual clothes. 539 00:23:44,995 --> 00:23:48,005 They're always wearing, you know, white shirt tie, 540 00:23:48,435 --> 00:23:49,645 even just a blue shirt 541 00:23:49,825 --> 00:23:52,045 or a pink shirt, you know, just, just, 542 00:23:52,165 --> 00:23:53,885 I understand why it has to be a white shirt 543 00:23:53,885 --> 00:23:56,125 and the symbolism and, and all of that. 544 00:23:56,145 --> 00:23:57,965 But I think if we wore casual clothes 545 00:23:57,985 --> 00:24:00,925 to our church services, because it says everyone welcome on 546 00:24:00,925 --> 00:24:04,125 the outside, but is everyone does, is everyone made to feel 547 00:24:04,125 --> 00:24:05,805 as truly welcome as they could feel? 548 00:24:06,465 --> 00:24:07,685 The temple's a different matter. 549 00:24:08,005 --> 00:24:09,805 I understand Sunday best at the Temple, 550 00:24:10,225 --> 00:24:11,645 but why not in our chapels? 551 00:24:11,705 --> 00:24:13,405 Why, you know, on a Sunday we could, 552 00:24:13,465 --> 00:24:14,565 we could be in casual clothes. 553 00:24:15,315 --> 00:24:17,085 It's just my opinion, you know? Yeah, yeah. 554 00:24:17,345 --> 00:24:19,485 - No, and, and so there's little nuances, right? 555 00:24:19,485 --> 00:24:22,085 That, uh, like you said, we put on the sign outside, 556 00:24:22,625 --> 00:24:25,045 but does it feel that way when people walk in? 557 00:24:25,045 --> 00:24:26,285 Right? If somebody walks by 558 00:24:26,285 --> 00:24:28,365 and say, oh, look, it says I'm welcome 559 00:24:28,625 --> 00:24:29,645 and I'm just gonna walk in 560 00:24:29,645 --> 00:24:31,965 and do it, will they instantly fill out a place? 561 00:24:31,985 --> 00:24:35,765 And then what can we do to, um, uh, shift that, you know, 562 00:24:35,825 --> 00:24:36,885 and, and, you know, 563 00:24:36,885 --> 00:24:38,845 that doesn't mean like you mandate everybody coming 564 00:24:39,215 --> 00:24:40,965 sweatpants and casual clothes, 565 00:24:40,985 --> 00:24:43,205 but again, what, you know, put that in, put 566 00:24:43,205 --> 00:24:45,565 that into the Revelation machine and award council 567 00:24:45,705 --> 00:24:47,885 and say, you know what, if someone walks in, 568 00:24:47,905 --> 00:24:50,765 how can we help them feel more, more welcome? 569 00:24:50,865 --> 00:24:53,085 Or what if somebody's preparing to come right to what, 570 00:24:53,085 --> 00:24:55,085 what can we say to them to not put this pressure 571 00:24:55,085 --> 00:24:56,365 of now you have to go out and, 572 00:24:56,385 --> 00:24:59,325 and buy certain clothes in order to just come visit with us 573 00:24:59,425 --> 00:25:01,045 and worship with us on Sunday, right? 574 00:25:01,775 --> 00:25:05,305 - Yeah, exactly. So yeah, nothing's happened yet, 575 00:25:05,525 --> 00:25:07,185 and I, I don't expect that it will, 576 00:25:07,185 --> 00:25:10,825 because it's just part of our, the way that we do things. 577 00:25:10,925 --> 00:25:13,975 And it, you know, change happens slowly. 578 00:25:13,975 --> 00:25:15,055 Sometimes it happens fast. 579 00:25:15,075 --> 00:25:17,175 But with this, I think it would, it would happen slowly. 580 00:25:17,555 --> 00:25:19,975 But there are a few things, especially with, 581 00:25:19,975 --> 00:25:23,135 with the culture in our congregation that I am trying to, 582 00:25:23,715 --> 00:25:24,735 to shift and to change. 583 00:25:24,795 --> 00:25:28,655 And I feel very passionate about us just coming as we are 584 00:25:29,155 --> 00:25:31,295 and not trying to be anyone different. 585 00:25:31,875 --> 00:25:34,895 One of the most incredible, liberating things about 586 00:25:36,075 --> 00:25:38,985 being baptized is that for the first time in my life, 587 00:25:39,945 --> 00:25:43,545 I felt like I could identify as myself rather than having 588 00:25:43,545 --> 00:25:46,775 to identify as trying to be something else. 589 00:25:47,575 --> 00:25:50,615 I felt like my baptism marked a time where I decided 590 00:25:50,635 --> 00:25:52,015 to become my authentic self 591 00:25:52,675 --> 00:25:55,215 and to not worry about what other people thought of me, 592 00:25:55,275 --> 00:25:56,815 to just say, this is me. 593 00:25:57,235 --> 00:26:00,215 And I think our membership in the Church of Jesus Christ 594 00:26:00,215 --> 00:26:03,975 of Lest Day Saints gives us this wonderful, uh, identity. 595 00:26:04,355 --> 00:26:06,735 You know, we are children of God, 596 00:26:07,355 --> 00:26:09,455 and that's life changing. 597 00:26:09,645 --> 00:26:12,645 When we realize what that truly means for us, that's, 598 00:26:12,795 --> 00:26:14,525 it's totally life changing. 599 00:26:15,425 --> 00:26:18,485 But going along with that, we need to know that God loves us 600 00:26:18,545 --> 00:26:21,005 for who we are, and we don't have to try 601 00:26:21,005 --> 00:26:22,005 and turn up to church 602 00:26:22,005 --> 00:26:23,685 and be someone different from who we are. 603 00:26:24,025 --> 00:26:25,565 We can turn up and just be ourselves. 604 00:26:26,065 --> 00:26:28,565 So, in Relief Society at the moment, I've, 605 00:26:28,595 --> 00:26:31,125 I've got two incredible teachers, one's just, 606 00:26:31,155 --> 00:26:34,285 just being called, and I'm, I'm really excited to, 607 00:26:34,305 --> 00:26:37,085 to give them some training this week on just being 608 00:26:37,085 --> 00:26:41,005 themselves, because they're both, um, they're women I admire 609 00:26:41,265 --> 00:26:43,410 so much that they're very different from one another, 610 00:26:43,985 --> 00:26:46,925 but they're very, um, what's the word? 611 00:26:48,255 --> 00:26:51,025 They're set in their beliefs, and they know who they're, 612 00:26:51,525 --> 00:26:52,945 and I want them to be themselves. 613 00:26:53,105 --> 00:26:55,025 I don't want them to try and fit within the, 614 00:26:55,535 --> 00:26:57,745 what they think a relief society teacher should be. 615 00:26:57,765 --> 00:26:59,665 And we've had some beautiful spiritual lessons 616 00:27:00,075 --> 00:27:01,865 where people have opened up 617 00:27:02,125 --> 00:27:05,615 and discovered more about themselves by being authentic. 618 00:27:05,995 --> 00:27:07,735 So I feel very passionate about that at the moment. 619 00:27:08,365 --> 00:27:10,935 - Yeah. And, and I, I'm curious if there's many, 620 00:27:10,935 --> 00:27:14,295 maybe something more there as far as, I mean, did they, 621 00:27:14,595 --> 00:27:17,375 did they feel like, did they, did you have to communicate 622 00:27:17,375 --> 00:27:20,135 to them that it's okay to sort of be themselves 623 00:27:20,235 --> 00:27:22,575 as they teach, or do they just naturally feel that way? 624 00:27:22,675 --> 00:27:23,975 Or, I mean, how do you, 625 00:27:23,995 --> 00:27:25,855 how do you perpetuate that in Relief society? 626 00:27:26,995 --> 00:27:30,035 - I think it comes from me being myself. 627 00:27:30,495 --> 00:27:33,475 So in a lot of my Sacrament meeting talks, 628 00:27:34,235 --> 00:27:37,475 I will be very open at the pulpit about my struggles. 629 00:27:37,815 --> 00:27:40,235 You know, I won't go into massive amounts of detail, 630 00:27:40,255 --> 00:27:41,395 but I'll show my weaknesses. 631 00:27:41,615 --> 00:27:43,115 And I think that's important as well, 632 00:27:43,115 --> 00:27:46,875 because I think it was Elder Udo said, you know, 633 00:27:46,875 --> 00:27:48,395 the church is like a hospital. 634 00:27:48,545 --> 00:27:50,675 It's, it's for sick people. It's not for perfect people. 635 00:27:50,975 --> 00:27:53,635 And I just try and be myself. 636 00:27:54,135 --> 00:27:56,235 And then naturally that helps other people 637 00:27:56,375 --> 00:27:58,595 to feel like they can be themselves as well. 638 00:27:58,975 --> 00:28:01,755 And then they can start tapping into their divine nature. 639 00:28:01,825 --> 00:28:04,475 Then they can start tapping into the specific 640 00:28:05,395 --> 00:28:06,915 responsibilities that God has given them. 641 00:28:07,175 --> 00:28:10,515 So for me, I think I've been, at this point in my life, 642 00:28:10,515 --> 00:28:13,035 given the spiritual gift, that I just have this, 643 00:28:13,505 --> 00:28:15,115 this belief, this conviction, 644 00:28:15,415 --> 00:28:18,315 and I've had it my whole life so far. 645 00:28:18,315 --> 00:28:19,635 And I pray that I never lose it, 646 00:28:19,635 --> 00:28:21,675 that I just have always believed in God. 647 00:28:21,975 --> 00:28:23,635 And that's such a gift, you know, 648 00:28:23,735 --> 00:28:25,395 and I, I need to hold onto that. 649 00:28:25,395 --> 00:28:27,795 And everyone has been given their own spiritual gifts 650 00:28:28,335 --> 00:28:30,035 and things that they can bring to the table. 651 00:28:30,415 --> 00:28:32,355 And everyone's strengths and weaknesses are different, 652 00:28:32,355 --> 00:28:34,875 but we all need to just bring, bring what we are 653 00:28:35,615 --> 00:28:37,115 to the table, and then that helps others 654 00:28:37,115 --> 00:28:38,995 to feel more comfortable about who they're as well. 655 00:28:39,585 --> 00:28:42,915 - Yeah. Yeah. I love that the emphasis on recognizing 656 00:28:42,915 --> 00:28:44,515 that everybody has spiritual gifts 657 00:28:44,575 --> 00:28:48,875 and then allow them to, to, you know, testify, to witness, 658 00:28:49,055 --> 00:28:51,515 to, to be a lattery saint through those spiritual gifts. 659 00:28:51,515 --> 00:28:53,235 Right. And they're not always gonna be the same 660 00:28:53,915 --> 00:28:56,315 spiritual gifts you have, but to recognize they're there 661 00:28:56,315 --> 00:28:58,315 and let them manifest those. 662 00:28:58,825 --> 00:29:01,955 - Yeah. And not, not just within our congregations as well, 663 00:29:01,975 --> 00:29:03,235 but in the wider community. 664 00:29:03,545 --> 00:29:04,635 Yeah. It's really sad. 665 00:29:04,845 --> 00:29:09,055 We've, we've, we're part of this, um, what we're trying 666 00:29:09,055 --> 00:29:13,085 to be part of this wider community, right? 667 00:29:13,145 --> 00:29:14,925 So we're at the moment as a ward council, 668 00:29:14,975 --> 00:29:16,645 we're thinking about community outreach 669 00:29:16,705 --> 00:29:19,725 and what can we do to sort of raise the profile 670 00:29:20,305 --> 00:29:23,245 of our congregation amongst all the other congregations. 671 00:29:23,865 --> 00:29:26,925 And last year, I, I found a group 672 00:29:27,465 --> 00:29:30,805 in our city called Christian Churches in St. 673 00:29:31,045 --> 00:29:34,045 Bans, and I thought, well, we could join that group. 674 00:29:34,105 --> 00:29:36,845 You know, we're a Christian Church in St. Bans. 675 00:29:37,505 --> 00:29:39,485 So I, I got up the application and, 676 00:29:39,505 --> 00:29:40,685 and started going through it 677 00:29:40,685 --> 00:29:44,865 because I thought, if we can be part of this, you know, 678 00:29:45,015 --> 00:29:46,665 it's a networking group so we can, 679 00:29:46,725 --> 00:29:49,905 we can meet people from other Christian churches 680 00:29:50,085 --> 00:29:51,745 and we can share ideas, et cetera. 681 00:29:52,005 --> 00:29:55,185 But in the application phase, we were immediately declined 682 00:29:55,185 --> 00:29:57,825 because we don't qualify as a Christian Church. 683 00:29:58,885 --> 00:30:02,785 So the, the perception of us, at least in England, 684 00:30:03,685 --> 00:30:07,205 is, is a, is a huge challenge to be overcome. 685 00:30:07,625 --> 00:30:11,485 And it's only gonna be overcome if our members are true 686 00:30:11,485 --> 00:30:13,565 to themselves wherever they are. 687 00:30:13,905 --> 00:30:15,405 So, and this is a challenge for me. 688 00:30:15,645 --> 00:30:17,245 I find it really hard when I'm at work 689 00:30:17,585 --> 00:30:18,965 to be open about my faith, 690 00:30:19,625 --> 00:30:21,925 and sometimes I'll pray for an opportunity to, 691 00:30:21,985 --> 00:30:23,085 to share my faith at work. 692 00:30:23,225 --> 00:30:24,925 And if I pray for it, it'll always happen. 693 00:30:24,985 --> 00:30:27,045 So I'm a bit scared to, to pray for it. 694 00:30:27,585 --> 00:30:32,365 But we need, yeah, we need to be more, um, I guess 695 00:30:33,075 --> 00:30:35,485 ourselves in our local community so that people can, 696 00:30:36,065 --> 00:30:38,165 can start understanding who we truly are. 697 00:30:38,165 --> 00:30:39,445 Because I think it's really sad 698 00:30:39,445 --> 00:30:41,765 that we don't qualify as a Christian Church. 699 00:30:41,785 --> 00:30:45,605 You know, we're, we're all about Jesus Christ, so we need 700 00:30:45,625 --> 00:30:48,965 to find a way of opening our chapel doors. 701 00:30:49,125 --> 00:30:51,365 I think getting more people in the doors of our chapel, 702 00:30:51,365 --> 00:30:52,605 helping them to understand who we are. 703 00:30:52,605 --> 00:30:53,845 They don't have to be scared of us. 704 00:30:54,055 --> 00:30:56,205 There are some crazy perceptions. 705 00:30:56,405 --> 00:30:57,605 I mean, my, my friends 706 00:30:57,605 --> 00:30:59,805 and family, as I was thinking about joining the church, 707 00:30:59,945 --> 00:31:02,525 really did come up with some wild things 708 00:31:02,525 --> 00:31:04,485 that I could never have thought of before. 709 00:31:04,555 --> 00:31:07,045 Yeah. That they thought things like, they thought 710 00:31:07,045 --> 00:31:08,965 that I would only be allowed to wear black 711 00:31:08,965 --> 00:31:11,605 and white clothing if I became a member of the church. 712 00:31:11,905 --> 00:31:14,525 - Wow. I've heard that one. - I know they thought 713 00:31:14,525 --> 00:31:16,845 that the chapel building was fake, 714 00:31:17,185 --> 00:31:18,845 and there was like a basement level 715 00:31:18,975 --> 00:31:20,725 where we all went for our services. 716 00:31:21,225 --> 00:31:25,645 So the chapel area, if you walked in, would be like a stage, 717 00:31:25,865 --> 00:31:28,605 and then you would, you would go to the, to the actual place 718 00:31:28,605 --> 00:31:29,805 where the services happened. 719 00:31:29,865 --> 00:31:33,365 You know, just stuff like that, that they genuinely believed 720 00:31:33,515 --> 00:31:35,365 that I, yeah. 721 00:31:35,365 --> 00:31:37,565 Just couldn't believe. But the misconceptions are, 722 00:31:38,145 --> 00:31:39,165 are very, very strong. 723 00:31:39,165 --> 00:31:40,365 And there's so many of them. 724 00:31:40,825 --> 00:31:44,925 And I'm trying to find ways to, to break that down. 725 00:31:45,145 --> 00:31:48,285 People are always surprised when I tell them 726 00:31:48,475 --> 00:31:49,765 that I'm a member of the church, 727 00:31:50,025 --> 00:31:53,525 and I hope that one day they're not surprised. 728 00:31:53,955 --> 00:31:55,605 - Yeah. Yeah. I love that. 729 00:31:55,605 --> 00:31:56,925 Just like recognizing 730 00:31:56,925 --> 00:31:59,525 that maybe they won't approve your various applications 731 00:31:59,625 --> 00:32:02,765 to whatever it is, but to say, okay, if you won't do that, 732 00:32:02,765 --> 00:32:05,365 then I want to get you exposed to us as a people, 733 00:32:05,425 --> 00:32:07,645 as a religion, so that you have a better understanding 734 00:32:07,985 --> 00:32:11,845 and not these horrible misconceptions about what we believe 735 00:32:11,845 --> 00:32:13,205 and whatnot, and really recognize 736 00:32:13,205 --> 00:32:14,805 that we're believers of Christ, you know? 737 00:32:15,025 --> 00:32:17,165 - So, yeah. And I think the Book of Mormon musical, 738 00:32:17,275 --> 00:32:19,245 because it's, it's in London Uhhuh, 739 00:32:19,245 --> 00:32:22,565 and it's really popular on the big Red double Decker buses. 740 00:32:22,745 --> 00:32:24,685 You see the words, the Mormons are coming 741 00:32:25,165 --> 00:32:26,525 , so it's everywhere. 742 00:32:26,585 --> 00:32:28,925 So a lot of people have now heard of the church. 743 00:32:29,885 --> 00:32:31,845 I don't, I, which I think is a good thing in terms 744 00:32:31,845 --> 00:32:33,565 of the musical that they have heard of it. 745 00:32:34,265 --> 00:32:36,565 But then I think it breeds a lot of negativity 746 00:32:36,585 --> 00:32:37,845 and a lot of misconceptions 747 00:32:37,845 --> 00:32:40,165 because the things that are in, in the musical are 748 00:32:41,205 --> 00:32:43,935 half truths and they aren't quite right. 749 00:32:44,035 --> 00:32:45,895 It has led to some good discussions, though. 750 00:32:46,475 --> 00:32:49,655 Um, but I feel like it's my calling at the moment, 751 00:32:50,115 --> 00:32:51,815 and it has been for the last, sort 752 00:32:51,815 --> 00:32:53,175 of nine years since I joined the church, 753 00:32:53,515 --> 00:32:55,095 to be breaking down those barriers, 754 00:32:55,155 --> 00:32:56,455 to be breaking down those walls 755 00:32:56,455 --> 00:32:58,695 and to help people understand who we truly are. 756 00:32:58,915 --> 00:33:02,175 Mm-Hmm. , because my, my perception of 757 00:33:02,175 --> 00:33:04,335 what the church was versus what it actually is, 758 00:33:04,755 --> 00:33:06,255 is very different now. 759 00:33:06,255 --> 00:33:08,135 Yeah. Having been a member for almost 10 years. 760 00:33:09,115 --> 00:33:11,415 - And, and so is that, is there anything specific you do 761 00:33:11,415 --> 00:33:14,735 as a Relief Society president to, to move forward 762 00:33:14,735 --> 00:33:15,895 with that, uh, vision? 763 00:33:17,655 --> 00:33:19,985 - Well, the community outreach aspect of it, 764 00:33:19,985 --> 00:33:22,025 because sitting on Ward Council is really helpful 765 00:33:22,025 --> 00:33:23,425 because that gives me Okay. 766 00:33:23,695 --> 00:33:25,905 Sort of greater access to be able to, 767 00:33:27,265 --> 00:33:29,405 to move the ward forward in that direction. 768 00:33:29,405 --> 00:33:32,045 We're doing loads of community outreach, which is wonderful. 769 00:33:32,135 --> 00:33:34,005 We've just started, um, 770 00:33:34,425 --> 00:33:37,605 an external group has started using our building, um, 771 00:33:37,915 --> 00:33:39,245 once a month on a Saturday. 772 00:33:39,545 --> 00:33:43,085 So I am a mom of twins, so the St. 773 00:33:43,355 --> 00:33:46,085 Bans Twins Club is now meeting at the Chapel. 774 00:33:46,185 --> 00:33:47,605 So this past weekend we had, 775 00:33:48,085 --> 00:33:50,605 I think it was 75 people in the cultural hall, 776 00:33:50,745 --> 00:33:54,885 and my family were the only members of the church, so Oh, 777 00:33:54,885 --> 00:33:55,885 - Wow. 778 00:33:55,885 --> 00:33:56,885 - Things like that, you know, 779 00:33:56,885 --> 00:33:58,925 because people will naturally ask questions. 780 00:33:59,125 --> 00:34:03,245 I, I did have someone ask me a little bit about the faith. 781 00:34:03,415 --> 00:34:04,925 She's a Christian herself, and, 782 00:34:04,925 --> 00:34:06,325 and as you walk into our chapel, 783 00:34:06,825 --> 00:34:09,765 our bishop did a really good job of choosing lovely artwork 784 00:34:09,865 --> 00:34:12,045 for our, for our foyer area. 785 00:34:12,185 --> 00:34:14,245 So we've got, you know, all of the 786 00:34:14,885 --> 00:34:16,805 paintings are of Jesus Christ. 787 00:34:17,025 --> 00:34:19,485 So it's very obvious when you walk in what we stand 788 00:34:19,505 --> 00:34:20,565 for, which is good. 789 00:34:21,025 --> 00:34:23,525 And I think that that will will lead to some questions. 790 00:34:24,225 --> 00:34:26,565 My, my role as Relief Society president has 791 00:34:26,565 --> 00:34:28,165 been interesting. 792 00:34:28,945 --> 00:34:33,525 Um, I focus a lot on, on the sisters in our ward. 793 00:34:33,845 --> 00:34:36,325 I wouldn't say I've necessarily moved too much into, 794 00:34:37,155 --> 00:34:41,565 into thinking about how to embrace specifically sisters, 795 00:34:42,225 --> 00:34:44,885 but in terms of community outreach outside of our ward, 796 00:34:44,885 --> 00:34:46,485 that's something that's at the forefront of our minds. 797 00:34:47,255 --> 00:34:49,425 - Yeah, I love that. That's really cool. 798 00:34:49,925 --> 00:34:54,065 Um, anything that you would, uh, highlight, uh, as far 799 00:34:54,065 --> 00:34:58,665 as the twice a twice a month, relief Society meeting, uh, 800 00:34:58,725 --> 00:35:01,145 you know, you mentioned your, your instructors and whatnot. 801 00:35:01,425 --> 00:35:03,025 Anything else that's maybe unique 802 00:35:03,165 --> 00:35:06,705 or, uh, approach you take in just facilitating 803 00:35:06,705 --> 00:35:08,185 that meeting every other week, 804 00:35:09,155 --> 00:35:10,155 - Week? 805 00:35:10,155 --> 00:35:12,005 Well, we've started up Relief Society councils. 806 00:35:12,185 --> 00:35:13,925 So in the handbook, I can't remember when, 807 00:35:14,005 --> 00:35:15,845 I think it was last year, they mentioned 808 00:35:15,845 --> 00:35:18,525 that we could have a Relief Society Council at the beginning 809 00:35:18,585 --> 00:35:20,245 of a Relief Society lesson. 810 00:35:20,865 --> 00:35:22,045 And I've been conducting those, 811 00:35:22,345 --> 00:35:24,005 and there's, the handbook is quite vague. 812 00:35:24,005 --> 00:35:26,525 It doesn't say what you're meant to talk about 813 00:35:26,625 --> 00:35:28,365 or how you're meant to conduct those councils. 814 00:35:28,705 --> 00:35:30,405 So what I've been doing is I've just been trying 815 00:35:30,405 --> 00:35:32,005 to follow the spirit as best that I can. 816 00:35:32,305 --> 00:35:34,445 And I've been trying to have candid discussions 817 00:35:34,595 --> 00:35:38,245 with the sisters on things that they perhaps struggle with 818 00:35:38,585 --> 00:35:40,365 or things which are faith promoting. 819 00:35:40,905 --> 00:35:43,165 And I'd be really interested to hear 820 00:35:43,385 --> 00:35:46,245 how other Relief Society presidents are conducting these 821 00:35:46,245 --> 00:35:48,925 council meetings, because I feel like I'm 822 00:35:48,925 --> 00:35:49,965 just on my own at the moment. 823 00:35:50,205 --> 00:35:52,725 I did speak to another Relief Society president within 824 00:35:53,345 --> 00:35:55,045 our stake, and she said 825 00:35:55,045 --> 00:35:56,845 that she hadn't started up those relief 826 00:35:56,845 --> 00:35:58,045 society councils yet. 827 00:35:58,305 --> 00:35:59,485 But that's something that I've been doing 828 00:35:59,485 --> 00:36:00,645 and that I've really been enjoying. 829 00:36:01,165 --> 00:36:03,805 I am very fortunate the sisters in our ward are open. 830 00:36:03,915 --> 00:36:07,245 They are receptive to change. They are, we're a good bunch. 831 00:36:07,255 --> 00:36:09,525 We're, we're small in number, but we're strong in spirit. 832 00:36:10,085 --> 00:36:14,265 I think there's about, I think we get between, 833 00:36:15,415 --> 00:36:17,395 my bishop can correct me if I'm wrong, 60 834 00:36:17,455 --> 00:36:20,755 to 80 members attending in the ward per week. 835 00:36:21,495 --> 00:36:24,115 So, you know, thinking about a typical relief society 836 00:36:24,115 --> 00:36:27,195 meeting, generally we have between seven 837 00:36:27,375 --> 00:36:29,915 to 20 sisters attending per week. 838 00:36:31,225 --> 00:36:34,285 And I've enjoyed the Relief Society councils. 839 00:36:34,665 --> 00:36:37,005 I'm, I'm hoping for some more direction soon, 840 00:36:37,305 --> 00:36:39,045 but if not, I'll just go with 841 00:36:39,045 --> 00:36:40,325 what the spirit's telling me to do. 842 00:36:40,475 --> 00:36:41,805 It's working well so far. Yeah. 843 00:36:42,185 --> 00:36:45,005 - So if, if you had a new relief site president ask you 844 00:36:45,005 --> 00:36:47,325 like, okay, I, you know, Georgia, I wanna do the, 845 00:36:47,325 --> 00:36:49,245 the council meetings, I, I recognize there's some 846 00:36:49,315 --> 00:36:50,325 info in the handbooks. 847 00:36:50,595 --> 00:36:52,205 What advice would you give me? 848 00:36:52,205 --> 00:36:54,085 Like, do you, do you start with a question? 849 00:36:54,185 --> 00:36:55,245 Do you do it every week? 850 00:36:55,445 --> 00:36:57,085 I mean, just give us the, the nuts 851 00:36:57,085 --> 00:36:58,885 and bolts as far as how you've done it. 852 00:36:58,885 --> 00:36:59,885 Generally speaking, 853 00:37:00,805 --> 00:37:02,765 - I would give a very simple piece of advice, 854 00:37:03,215 --> 00:37:05,245 which is maybe a cop out response, 855 00:37:05,655 --> 00:37:08,445 which is follow the spirit. 856 00:37:09,705 --> 00:37:12,085 The spirit is not going to lead you wrong. 857 00:37:12,425 --> 00:37:15,325 The, the meetings, the council meetings 858 00:37:15,325 --> 00:37:17,405 that I have conducted typically take 859 00:37:17,555 --> 00:37:19,045 between five and 10 minutes. 860 00:37:19,765 --> 00:37:21,205 I typically start with a question. 861 00:37:21,645 --> 00:37:24,045 I use a whiteboard, and I put, um, 862 00:37:24,435 --> 00:37:26,045 answers up on the whiteboard. 863 00:37:26,315 --> 00:37:30,485 However, on occasion, I have diverted to something 864 00:37:30,485 --> 00:37:32,285 that I felt strongly that I need to do. 865 00:37:32,805 --> 00:37:33,885 I think the challenges 866 00:37:34,115 --> 00:37:36,885 that the sisters face will be different in every ward. 867 00:37:37,185 --> 00:37:39,365 And I think the spirit is key to letting 868 00:37:39,365 --> 00:37:42,125 that relief society president know how best 869 00:37:42,125 --> 00:37:43,965 to help the sisters within her ward. 870 00:37:44,475 --> 00:37:46,125 Yeah. 'cause the challenges 871 00:37:46,125 --> 00:37:49,565 that I experience in the UK will be very different from the 872 00:37:49,725 --> 00:37:52,525 challenges that are experienced in, in other nations, 873 00:37:52,585 --> 00:37:55,205 and even within the UK in different congregations. 874 00:37:55,205 --> 00:37:56,885 There'll be a different demographic 875 00:37:57,225 --> 00:37:58,965 and there'll be different challenges. 876 00:37:59,585 --> 00:38:01,485 So following the spirit, I think, and, 877 00:38:01,485 --> 00:38:03,205 and that's something that we are so blessed 878 00:38:03,225 --> 00:38:05,445 to have in our church, is that gift 879 00:38:05,445 --> 00:38:08,165 of the Holy Ghost is such a tangible difference in my life 880 00:38:08,495 --> 00:38:12,165 since I've received that gift, I, I feel like I have 881 00:38:12,165 --> 00:38:16,685 that every day now, as long as I take the steps to remain 882 00:38:17,235 --> 00:38:19,285 capable of, of receiving that, 883 00:38:19,865 --> 00:38:21,925 and it, it just makes such a difference. 884 00:38:22,045 --> 00:38:26,805 I I say it all the time, like it, I got the glimpses 885 00:38:26,805 --> 00:38:28,405 of it before I joined the church. 886 00:38:28,545 --> 00:38:31,525 And I, I remember asking, uh, a youth pastor 887 00:38:32,155 --> 00:38:34,165 when I was about 16, I remember saying, 888 00:38:34,325 --> 00:38:36,245 I feel this really special feeling sometimes, 889 00:38:36,305 --> 00:38:39,285 and I feel really peaceful, but it never stays with me. 890 00:38:39,505 --> 00:38:40,765 Why does it never stay with me? 891 00:38:41,265 --> 00:38:43,645 And he said, it doesn't stay with me either. 892 00:38:43,825 --> 00:38:45,685 And I remember him talking about a rollercoaster 893 00:38:45,785 --> 00:38:46,885 and how sometimes we're gonna 894 00:38:46,885 --> 00:38:47,965 feel it and sometimes we're not. 895 00:38:48,625 --> 00:38:51,685 But in our church, we can have that constant companion 896 00:38:52,465 --> 00:38:53,685 con, you know, constant. 897 00:38:53,685 --> 00:38:56,205 Yeah. And, and we can use that in everything 898 00:38:56,205 --> 00:38:57,845 that we do in our service, 899 00:38:58,105 --> 00:38:59,925 in our personal lives, in our families. 900 00:39:00,265 --> 00:39:01,725 And it's not gonna lead us wrong. 901 00:39:02,105 --> 00:39:04,705 So that's why I'd say follow the spirit 902 00:39:04,925 --> 00:39:06,585 as a new Relief Society president, 903 00:39:06,585 --> 00:39:08,785 because it's the, you know, 904 00:39:08,785 --> 00:39:11,105 heavenly father knows his children, he knows 905 00:39:11,105 --> 00:39:12,345 what the sisters need, and, 906 00:39:12,345 --> 00:39:15,545 and he'll communicate that through the spirit, uh, 907 00:39:15,605 --> 00:39:18,345 to help in whatever form that takes. 908 00:39:18,535 --> 00:39:20,345 Yeah. And that's what a relief society president 909 00:39:20,345 --> 00:39:21,585 does. It's very varied. 910 00:39:22,085 --> 00:39:23,225 - Mm-Hmm, . Yeah. Well, I, 911 00:39:23,225 --> 00:39:24,425 and I think that's Sice. 912 00:39:24,505 --> 00:39:26,465 I appreciate that. Um, and any other, 913 00:39:26,465 --> 00:39:30,665 before we wrap up, any other concept principle, uh, uh, 914 00:39:30,745 --> 00:39:32,385 habit routine you do 915 00:39:32,385 --> 00:39:34,065 as a relief site president would be worth 916 00:39:34,065 --> 00:39:35,305 mentioning before we wrap up? 917 00:39:36,625 --> 00:39:38,625 - I, I think before we wrap up, one thing 918 00:39:38,625 --> 00:39:40,785 that I haven't talked about is perspective. 919 00:39:41,445 --> 00:39:44,225 So this calling has given me the most wonderful perspective. 920 00:39:44,405 --> 00:39:46,145 And I, I hope that I never lose it. 921 00:39:46,695 --> 00:39:48,625 That we are all different. 922 00:39:49,565 --> 00:39:52,905 And if we think that someone has life sorted, if we think 923 00:39:52,905 --> 00:39:54,625 that they're sailing through life, 924 00:39:54,625 --> 00:39:56,225 then we clearly dunno them well enough. 925 00:39:56,375 --> 00:39:59,025 Because every single person on this planet 926 00:39:59,565 --> 00:40:02,585 has significant challenges, significant difficulties, 927 00:40:02,855 --> 00:40:04,785 significant strengths, weaknesses. 928 00:40:05,245 --> 00:40:08,025 We all have things that we're going through. 929 00:40:08,365 --> 00:40:11,145 And that's what this calling has given me, is perspective. 930 00:40:11,325 --> 00:40:12,625 And I hope that I never lose that, 931 00:40:12,625 --> 00:40:15,545 because it's been really transformative to me. 932 00:40:15,615 --> 00:40:18,025 It's been one of the biggest lessons that I've learned is 933 00:40:18,655 --> 00:40:19,665 that everyone has, 934 00:40:19,805 --> 00:40:21,545 has their own battle that they're going through. 935 00:40:21,765 --> 00:40:23,465 And our role on Earth is to try 936 00:40:23,465 --> 00:40:25,665 and help other people as much as we can to, 937 00:40:26,085 --> 00:40:27,745 to overcome those challenges and, 938 00:40:27,765 --> 00:40:29,145 and to move on to the next challenge. 939 00:40:29,325 --> 00:40:30,545 And that, that's what's guaranteed. 940 00:40:30,545 --> 00:40:33,385 If you're over one challenge, you will be given another one. 941 00:40:33,735 --> 00:40:34,825 I've definitely learned that 942 00:40:35,585 --> 00:40:36,585 - , for sure. 943 00:40:36,975 --> 00:40:38,665 Well, uh, Georgie, this has been fantastic. 944 00:40:38,945 --> 00:40:41,985 I, um, I hope someday I get to, to visit your ward and, 945 00:40:42,005 --> 00:40:45,505 and see all, you know, that, that wonderful, uh, 946 00:40:45,505 --> 00:40:47,065 community in action and whatnot. 947 00:40:47,165 --> 00:40:49,105 So, um, last question I have for you, Georgia. 948 00:40:49,165 --> 00:40:51,225 As you reflect on your time, the last three years 949 00:40:51,405 --> 00:40:53,745 as a Relief Society president, as a leader, 950 00:40:54,085 --> 00:40:55,985 how has being a leader helped you become a better 951 00:40:56,025 --> 00:40:57,425 follower of Jesus Christ? 952 00:40:58,445 --> 00:41:00,785 - It has humbled me for sure. 953 00:41:01,405 --> 00:41:03,145 Um, I alluded to it before, 954 00:41:03,765 --> 00:41:08,425 but becoming a leader has enabled me to see people the way 955 00:41:08,425 --> 00:41:09,745 that Jesus Christ sees them. 956 00:41:10,325 --> 00:41:14,705 And that has helped me gain, uh, a new perspective on, 957 00:41:14,965 --> 00:41:16,985 on the Savior and on my relationship with him. 958 00:41:26,725 --> 00:41:29,465 - And that concludes this how I lead interview. 959 00:41:29,825 --> 00:41:31,985 I hope you enjoyed it. And, uh, I would ask you, 960 00:41:31,995 --> 00:41:34,725 could you take a minute and drop this link in an email, 961 00:41:34,745 --> 00:41:36,405 on social media, in a text, 962 00:41:37,085 --> 00:41:39,045 wherever it makes the most sense, and share it with somebody 963 00:41:39,065 --> 00:41:41,485 who could relate to this, this experience. 964 00:41:41,665 --> 00:41:45,045 And this is how we, how we develop as leaders, just hearing 965 00:41:45,045 --> 00:41:47,205 what the other guy's doing, trying some things out, testing, 966 00:41:47,315 --> 00:41:49,005 adjusting for your area. 967 00:41:49,145 --> 00:41:51,445 And, uh, that's, that's 968 00:41:51,525 --> 00:41:53,165 where great leadership's discovered, right? 969 00:41:53,165 --> 00:41:55,765 So we would love to have you, uh, share this with, uh, 970 00:41:56,005 --> 00:41:57,085 somebody in this calling 971 00:41:57,185 --> 00:41:59,645 or a related calling, and that would be great. 972 00:41:59,945 --> 00:42:02,845 And also, if you know somebody, uh, any type of leader 973 00:42:03,145 --> 00:42:05,325 who would be a fantastic guest on the How I Lead 974 00:42:05,325 --> 00:42:06,925 segment, uh, reach out to us. 975 00:42:06,925 --> 00:42:08,845 Go to leading saints.org/contact. 976 00:42:09,215 --> 00:42:12,165 Maybe send this in individual an email letting them know 977 00:42:12,165 --> 00:42:14,205 that you're going to be suggesting their name 978 00:42:14,305 --> 00:42:15,365 for this interview. 979 00:42:15,415 --> 00:42:18,685 We'll reach out to them and, uh, see if we can line 'em up. 980 00:42:18,685 --> 00:42:20,925 So again, go to leading saints.org/contact. 981 00:42:21,345 --> 00:42:23,165 And there you can submit all the information 982 00:42:23,465 --> 00:42:26,125 and let us know, and maybe they will be on a feature How I 983 00:42:26,125 --> 00:42:28,325 lead Segment on the Leading Saints podcast. 984 00:42:29,445 --> 00:42:31,365 Remember up your teaching game by listening 985 00:42:31,365 --> 00:42:33,005 to the David Farnsworth presentation 986 00:42:33,065 --> 00:42:35,925 by visiting leading saints.org/fourteen. 987 00:42:43,945 --> 00:42:47,085 - It came as a result of the position of leadership, 988 00:42:47,335 --> 00:42:51,245 which was imposed upon us by the God of Heaven, 989 00:42:51,385 --> 00:42:54,525 who brought forth a restoration of the Gospel 990 00:42:54,705 --> 00:42:56,045 of Jesus Christ. 991 00:42:56,625 --> 00:43:00,165 And when the Declaration was made concerning the own 992 00:43:00,225 --> 00:43:03,885 and only true and living church upon the face of the earth, 993 00:43:04,665 --> 00:43:08,125 we were immediately put in a position of loneliness. 994 00:43:08,345 --> 00:43:10,045 The loneliness of leadership 995 00:43:10,795 --> 00:43:13,685 from which we cannot shrink nor run away. 996 00:43:14,905 --> 00:43:18,685 And to which we must face up with boldness and courage 997 00:43:19,425 --> 00:43:20,085 and ability.