1 00:00:02,195 --> 00:00:04,325 - Have you ever had a loved one leave the church 2 00:00:04,545 --> 00:00:06,965 and your relationship becomes awkward. 3 00:00:07,355 --> 00:00:09,525 This is so common and so sad. 4 00:00:10,005 --> 00:00:12,005 I got the chance to interview the Packard family 5 00:00:12,065 --> 00:00:13,525 who have been down this road. 6 00:00:13,975 --> 00:00:16,685 Cindy and Blair Packard are Orthodox believing parents 7 00:00:16,745 --> 00:00:20,205 and Josh, their son and his wife, have left the church. 8 00:00:20,545 --> 00:00:22,685 We came together to discuss their journey, 9 00:00:22,985 --> 00:00:24,805 and it was amazing what they taught. 10 00:00:25,035 --> 00:00:27,405 They talked about the communications that you regretted 11 00:00:27,585 --> 00:00:29,205 and how other siblings responded 12 00:00:29,205 --> 00:00:30,565 in positive and negative ways. 13 00:00:30,995 --> 00:00:32,525 They learned how to pick up the pieces. 14 00:00:32,615 --> 00:00:34,765 Again, express love, carry on, 15 00:00:34,945 --> 00:00:36,645 and build a beautiful relationship. 16 00:00:37,035 --> 00:00:39,005 This has become a favorite in the 17 00:00:39,165 --> 00:00:40,405 Questioning Saints Virtual Library. 18 00:00:40,865 --> 00:00:42,285 You can actually gain access 19 00:00:42,305 --> 00:00:45,325 to this interview@leadingsaints.org slash 14. 20 00:00:45,555 --> 00:00:48,645 This will give you 14 days to watch the Packards interview 21 00:00:48,825 --> 00:00:51,125 and many others related to helping individuals 22 00:00:51,305 --> 00:00:52,685 who begin to question their faith. 23 00:00:53,145 --> 00:00:56,525 Go to leading saints.org/fourteen and get access. Now. 24 00:01:01,225 --> 00:01:03,965 Before we jump into the content of this episode, I kind 25 00:01:03,965 --> 00:01:05,845 of feel it's important that I introduce myself. 26 00:01:05,905 --> 00:01:08,005 Now, many of you have been around a long time. 27 00:01:08,225 --> 00:01:10,405 You're well familiar with My Voice 28 00:01:10,625 --> 00:01:12,925 and the with Leading Saints as an organization, 29 00:01:13,345 --> 00:01:15,845 but if you're not, well, my name is Kurt Frankham, 30 00:01:15,845 --> 00:01:18,165 and I am the executive director of Leading Saints 31 00:01:18,185 --> 00:01:19,365 and the podcast host. 32 00:01:19,465 --> 00:01:22,965 Now, leading Saints is a nonprofit organization dedicated, 33 00:01:22,965 --> 00:01:25,445 helping latter-Day Saints be better prepared to lead. 34 00:01:25,665 --> 00:01:27,765 And we do that through well content creation, 35 00:01:27,765 --> 00:01:29,285 like this podcast and many other 36 00:01:29,445 --> 00:01:30,805 resources@leadingsaints.org. 37 00:01:31,105 --> 00:01:34,445 And, uh, we don't act like we have all the answers 38 00:01:34,705 --> 00:01:37,325 or know exactly what a leader should do or not do, 39 00:01:37,385 --> 00:01:40,405 but we like to explore the concepts of leadership, 40 00:01:40,465 --> 00:01:41,605 the science of leadership, 41 00:01:41,605 --> 00:01:43,605 what people are researching about leadership, 42 00:01:43,745 --> 00:01:46,765 and see how we can apply them to a latter day Saint World. 43 00:01:47,025 --> 00:01:47,685 So here we go. 44 00:01:58,145 --> 00:02:00,765 Steven Jones, here you are. We're in your studio. 45 00:02:01,015 --> 00:02:02,485 Thank you for opening the door, 46 00:02:02,485 --> 00:02:04,645 and let me turn the tables on you and ask you the 47 00:02:04,725 --> 00:02:05,725 - Questions. 48 00:02:05,725 --> 00:02:06,485 Oh, this isn't my studio. You know what I mean? 49 00:02:06,485 --> 00:02:07,885 This, we, a lot of people use this here. 50 00:02:08,355 --> 00:02:11,165 It's just a blessing to be able to, to like connect 51 00:02:11,165 --> 00:02:12,805 with people wherever they are. 52 00:02:12,805 --> 00:02:14,005 Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's 53 00:02:14,005 --> 00:02:16,245 what I feel like the internet allows you to do. And this is 54 00:02:16,305 --> 00:02:17,405 - So what are you trying to accomplish 55 00:02:17,405 --> 00:02:18,845 with your podcast, your show? 56 00:02:19,225 --> 00:02:20,645 - You know what's interesting, what you, we were saying 57 00:02:20,645 --> 00:02:21,925 before that we started rolling the cameras, 58 00:02:22,105 --> 00:02:24,685 you said there's a huge issue in the church where, 59 00:02:24,905 --> 00:02:26,885 and not the church in the ch the church itself, 60 00:02:26,905 --> 00:02:29,925 but people within the church, they go to church 61 00:02:29,945 --> 00:02:31,605 and they have, you know, Sunday school 62 00:02:31,625 --> 00:02:33,085 or they're in their families and they're learning 63 00:02:33,175 --> 00:02:34,405 about the gospel, right? 64 00:02:34,405 --> 00:02:35,885 Mm-Hmm. . But one of the big gaps 65 00:02:35,885 --> 00:02:37,165 that people have is, well, how do 66 00:02:37,165 --> 00:02:38,405 you, like, how do you do that? 67 00:02:38,465 --> 00:02:39,845 Mm-Hmm. like, I mean, I know what the 68 00:02:39,845 --> 00:02:40,845 - Application of it. 69 00:02:40,845 --> 00:02:42,165 - Yeah. Well, I know, I know what faith is. 70 00:02:42,195 --> 00:02:44,925 I've heard that before. And so the podcast that we do here, 71 00:02:45,195 --> 00:02:46,605 it's called Let's Get Real Mm-Hmm. 72 00:02:46,645 --> 00:02:47,525 . And it's really that idea of 73 00:02:47,525 --> 00:02:48,645 like bringing it to life. 74 00:02:48,645 --> 00:02:50,565 Like, so you have people that are practitioners 75 00:02:50,675 --> 00:02:52,965 that are experts, whether in their study, 76 00:02:53,065 --> 00:02:55,245 but then also in their practition. 77 00:02:55,265 --> 00:02:58,125 So it's like, here are examples of people who, 78 00:02:58,615 --> 00:03:00,045 maybe it's based on a hard question. 79 00:03:00,045 --> 00:03:01,885 They know the answers really, really well 80 00:03:01,885 --> 00:03:03,445 because they've, they've studied it their whole life, 81 00:03:03,445 --> 00:03:04,525 or they're an expert in that area, 82 00:03:04,625 --> 00:03:05,685 but then you also have people who 83 00:03:05,685 --> 00:03:06,725 are putting it into practice. 84 00:03:06,725 --> 00:03:08,045 Right. And that's the piece that I feel like 85 00:03:08,105 --> 00:03:09,165 has been really helpful to people. 86 00:03:09,475 --> 00:03:10,845 - Yeah. Because there's, there seems 87 00:03:10,845 --> 00:03:13,285 to be all these like scholars, theologians 88 00:03:13,285 --> 00:03:14,805 who do great work in what they do, 89 00:03:15,145 --> 00:03:17,085 and we sort of go to them sort of wanting 90 00:03:17,085 --> 00:03:18,485 to know the answers and the details. 91 00:03:18,865 --> 00:03:21,285 But it's the, the real stories of like, this is 92 00:03:21,285 --> 00:03:22,565 what the gospel looks in my life. 93 00:03:22,565 --> 00:03:24,405 This is how I apply it. Then it's like, oh, like, 94 00:03:24,405 --> 00:03:25,765 then we can connect those two worlds. 95 00:03:25,875 --> 00:03:27,045 - Yeah. Well, I mean, think about it 96 00:03:27,075 --> 00:03:28,725 like, learning has a lot of stages. 97 00:03:28,875 --> 00:03:31,045 It's not just, just to understand it. Right. 98 00:03:31,105 --> 00:03:33,845 And I love Elder Nars book, the, the series that he has. 99 00:03:33,845 --> 00:03:36,165 Right? It's like you have to know and understand 100 00:03:36,325 --> 00:03:39,045 and then you can be like, it become so like it's learn, uh, 101 00:03:39,045 --> 00:03:41,125 what's the, the first book is, um, increase in learning. 102 00:03:41,185 --> 00:03:43,725 Yes. Yes. The power to be, uh, and then act in doctrine 103 00:03:43,725 --> 00:03:44,765 and then then the power to become. 104 00:03:44,945 --> 00:03:47,645 And then I say a lot of times we only focus on the first, 105 00:03:47,865 --> 00:03:49,325 or we only focus on the second, 106 00:03:49,385 --> 00:03:50,565 or we only focus on the last. 107 00:03:50,705 --> 00:03:51,845 But I think that's an aggregate. 108 00:03:51,865 --> 00:03:54,005 And so we try to have a, a variety of guests 109 00:03:54,005 --> 00:03:56,605 that meet in probably one of those three boxes, right? 110 00:03:57,005 --> 00:03:58,245 Somebody who can help us really understand 111 00:03:58,245 --> 00:03:59,405 and get the context right, 112 00:03:59,705 --> 00:04:01,285 or somebody who's actually living it. 113 00:04:01,285 --> 00:04:03,725 Right. And then obviously once you really know it, 114 00:04:03,725 --> 00:04:04,845 then that's when you can become it. 115 00:04:04,845 --> 00:04:06,205 And that's really what people do in their real 116 00:04:06,205 --> 00:04:07,285 life and put into practice. 117 00:04:07,425 --> 00:04:08,805 - Now, most people may not know that you're an active 118 00:04:08,805 --> 00:04:09,845 serving bishop right now. 119 00:04:10,085 --> 00:04:11,445 I am. Yeah. So tell me the story 120 00:04:11,445 --> 00:04:12,565 of you being called as Bishop. 121 00:04:13,065 --> 00:04:15,005 - Oh my gosh. Okay. Listen. 122 00:04:15,465 --> 00:04:18,805 So three years ago in July, it was during Covid. 123 00:04:18,805 --> 00:04:22,525 Covid just hit, and I'm in my master's program at BYU 124 00:04:23,165 --> 00:04:24,525 studying public administration. 125 00:04:24,865 --> 00:04:27,285 And my wife is a young women's president at the time. 126 00:04:27,425 --> 00:04:28,885 I'm thinking, I'm just gonna finish this school 127 00:04:29,025 --> 00:04:30,285 and just keep on going. 128 00:04:30,285 --> 00:04:31,485 Right? Uhhuh . And then 129 00:04:32,105 --> 00:04:33,685 my state president calls me 130 00:04:34,065 --> 00:04:35,445 and they call me to be the bishop. 131 00:04:35,585 --> 00:04:39,085 So like, it happened in the midst of a lot of people 132 00:04:39,665 --> 00:04:42,165 in a situation in their life where, you know, 133 00:04:42,165 --> 00:04:43,645 there was a lot of struggles that were happening at the 134 00:04:43,645 --> 00:04:46,565 time, but also at a time in my life when my life was 135 00:04:46,565 --> 00:04:47,725 already pretty, pretty busy. 136 00:04:47,855 --> 00:04:50,245 Right? And so it almost thought, I almost thought like, 137 00:04:50,635 --> 00:04:53,565 okay, I don't think God's like trying to play a joke on me. 138 00:04:53,565 --> 00:04:55,925 Right? Right. But I also think there's plenty of people 139 00:04:55,925 --> 00:04:57,605 that could do this, but maybe there's 140 00:04:57,605 --> 00:04:58,965 something that I could offer. 141 00:04:59,045 --> 00:05:00,245 I have no idea what it is. 142 00:05:00,625 --> 00:05:02,925 But I remember at the very, very beginning just thinking, 143 00:05:03,075 --> 00:05:05,125 okay, he, I'm not gonna do this by myself. 144 00:05:05,125 --> 00:05:06,845 Right? Like, he's not, like, that's what I mean 145 00:05:06,845 --> 00:05:07,845 by not playing a joke on me. 146 00:05:07,875 --> 00:05:10,885 Like, he's not just like, Hey, let me let you suffer. Right? 147 00:05:11,165 --> 00:05:12,365 , he's gonna help me. Right? 148 00:05:12,585 --> 00:05:15,165 And so I was like, all right, well, let's see what I have. 149 00:05:15,205 --> 00:05:16,245 I don't think that they joke around 150 00:05:16,315 --> 00:05:17,525 when they call somebody to be a bishop. 151 00:05:17,595 --> 00:05:19,605 Then my state president knew my circumstance. 152 00:05:19,945 --> 00:05:21,525 And I've been doing it for the past three years, 153 00:05:21,525 --> 00:05:26,325 and it's been, it has been one of the most purifying things 154 00:05:26,325 --> 00:05:28,125 that I've ever done in my entire life. 155 00:05:28,355 --> 00:05:31,565 Like, honestly, it has been one of the most, I can't, 156 00:05:31,565 --> 00:05:32,725 I don't even know how to explain it. 157 00:05:32,925 --> 00:05:33,925 I, I tell people this way. 158 00:05:34,125 --> 00:05:37,285 I feel like I've become, like, in some ways the closest 159 00:05:37,505 --> 00:05:38,845 to God that I've ever been. 160 00:05:39,105 --> 00:05:41,045 And in some ways, in my own perspective, 161 00:05:41,105 --> 00:05:42,165 the farthest from God. 162 00:05:42,395 --> 00:05:43,845 Does that make sense when I say that? Yes. 163 00:05:43,845 --> 00:05:44,965 - What, what example comes to mind? Or what, 164 00:05:44,965 --> 00:05:46,365 how would you, uh, illustrate that? 165 00:05:46,645 --> 00:05:50,725 - I would say that you feel like you need the Holy Ghost 166 00:05:50,825 --> 00:05:53,525 so much, and you have to rely on the Holy Ghost so much 167 00:05:53,755 --> 00:05:55,885 that you notice every little thing that you do. 168 00:05:56,285 --> 00:05:58,925 Hmm. Like when you become a bishop, you're not all 169 00:05:58,925 --> 00:06:00,445 of a sudden a different person, you know? 170 00:06:00,445 --> 00:06:02,645 Yeah. It's not like, I think that you look at a bishop 171 00:06:02,705 --> 00:06:05,205 and you think, oh, your bishop is a really good person 172 00:06:05,275 --> 00:06:06,925 that they, not that you don't think you know, 173 00:06:06,925 --> 00:06:09,845 that they're not perfect, but you know, the, they try 174 00:06:09,845 --> 00:06:12,005 to set a tone of spirituality to some degree. 175 00:06:12,005 --> 00:06:14,445 Right. But at the same time, it's not like 176 00:06:15,205 --> 00:06:17,445 whenever you're called, like from the day to the next, 177 00:06:17,475 --> 00:06:19,605 it's like you like go and get some superpower, 178 00:06:19,605 --> 00:06:20,645 and you're like, now I'm the bishop. 179 00:06:20,785 --> 00:06:23,165 You know, , you know, you're still, I'm still Steven. 180 00:06:23,415 --> 00:06:25,045 Right. You know, I'm still, 181 00:06:25,485 --> 00:06:27,525 I still get frustrated at home sometimes. 182 00:06:27,685 --> 00:06:29,245 I mean, I don't have a, my home is not a 183 00:06:29,245 --> 00:06:30,685 perfect situation and scenario. 184 00:06:30,805 --> 00:06:32,525 I still need repentance. Mm-Hmm. 185 00:06:32,565 --> 00:06:33,725 , I still have to repent every day. 186 00:06:33,905 --> 00:06:36,245 And so, because I want the spirit so much. 187 00:06:36,685 --> 00:06:38,085 'cause that's how you can connect 188 00:06:38,085 --> 00:06:39,125 to know how to help people. 189 00:06:39,305 --> 00:06:41,005 That's kind of more of what, I mean, I feel like 190 00:06:41,005 --> 00:06:43,405 that you might, I think it may have caused me 191 00:06:43,405 --> 00:06:46,485 or caused others, if they can relate to notice more 192 00:06:46,485 --> 00:06:48,085 of the inadequacies that you have. 193 00:06:48,085 --> 00:06:49,565 Mm-Hmm. , I guess that's more of what I mean. 194 00:06:49,635 --> 00:06:52,285 Yeah. And at the same time, you have these experiences 195 00:06:52,405 --> 00:06:56,405 where like, you see God so clearly in people's lives 196 00:06:56,405 --> 00:06:57,565 that there's no question. 197 00:06:57,675 --> 00:06:59,165 There's like, I can't even tell you 198 00:06:59,165 --> 00:07:00,605 how many times I've been in a room with someone 199 00:07:00,865 --> 00:07:03,085 and I'm like just knowing the con the the 200 00:07:03,085 --> 00:07:04,205 context and the circumstance. 201 00:07:04,385 --> 00:07:06,285 And then we'll be reading the scriptures together. 202 00:07:06,385 --> 00:07:08,965 And I'm like, or in the sacrament meeting, the very, like, 203 00:07:08,965 --> 00:07:10,045 you'll meet with somebody before church 204 00:07:10,105 --> 00:07:12,885 and in the Sacra meeting, like God is talking directly to 205 00:07:12,885 --> 00:07:14,325 that person in such an intimate way, 206 00:07:14,325 --> 00:07:15,965 and I'll just look out in the congregation. 207 00:07:16,265 --> 00:07:17,285 And they're like, yeah. 208 00:07:17,345 --> 00:07:19,165 I'm like, you can't make this stuff up. Yeah. 209 00:07:19,265 --> 00:07:21,765 And so it's like so clear that he's real, but, 210 00:07:21,765 --> 00:07:24,605 and at the same time, you realize how much you need him too. 211 00:07:24,775 --> 00:07:26,325 Right. You're, and by yourself. 212 00:07:26,365 --> 00:07:27,645 I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah. I 213 00:07:27,645 --> 00:07:29,885 - Have to ref frame it as, uh, being a bishop, 214 00:07:29,985 --> 00:07:31,845 you get the opportunity to watch the atonement 215 00:07:31,845 --> 00:07:33,205 of Jesus Christ from the sidelines. 216 00:07:33,395 --> 00:07:34,765 Like, you're right there. Oh, yes. 217 00:07:34,785 --> 00:07:36,085 And it's, it's hard to deny 218 00:07:36,435 --> 00:07:39,085 what is going on in people's life with their savior. 219 00:07:39,465 --> 00:07:41,565 And it's unfortunate more get out the 220 00:07:41,565 --> 00:07:43,125 opportunity to sit in that chair. 221 00:07:43,145 --> 00:07:45,805 And, and because it is so remarkable to witness 222 00:07:46,545 --> 00:07:49,005 - It is the most powerful thing that I've ever experienced. 223 00:07:49,245 --> 00:07:50,605 I mean, but this is the thing though, 224 00:07:50,605 --> 00:07:53,645 that I also believe is it's made me look at 225 00:07:53,645 --> 00:07:54,805 being a father differently, though. 226 00:07:54,805 --> 00:07:56,525 Mm-Hmm. Because I remember the first time 227 00:07:56,595 --> 00:07:59,485 that I sat down in a, in the chair to meet with someone. 228 00:07:59,865 --> 00:08:01,605 And I remember I had a, a previous bishop 229 00:08:01,635 --> 00:08:02,765 that was my bishop, and he is like, look, 230 00:08:02,765 --> 00:08:04,565 when you get a become a bishop, this is what's gonna happen. 231 00:08:04,565 --> 00:08:05,605 You're gonna sit down in a chair 232 00:08:05,625 --> 00:08:08,245 and like, inspiration's just gonna, it's gonna hit you. 233 00:08:08,505 --> 00:08:10,365 And I was like, yeah, okay. What does he mean? 234 00:08:10,685 --> 00:08:13,365 Whatever, you know? But then whenever you're there, it just, 235 00:08:13,665 --> 00:08:16,365 no, even though I'm imperfect, God will not hold 236 00:08:16,365 --> 00:08:18,965 that against that person who I'm trying to help. 237 00:08:19,185 --> 00:08:20,245 And I'm telling you like, 238 00:08:20,245 --> 00:08:23,685 just the thoughts that'll just appear in my mind that are 239 00:08:23,685 --> 00:08:26,605 so clear of like, ask 'em this, invite them to do this. 240 00:08:27,025 --> 00:08:29,565 But what I realized though is I don't think that 241 00:08:29,565 --> 00:08:31,525 that was ever not the case in other areas 242 00:08:31,545 --> 00:08:32,565 of my life as a father. 243 00:08:33,215 --> 00:08:35,765 Right. I think that as, as a bishop, you're like, I need 244 00:08:35,765 --> 00:08:38,285 to make a decision today and I need to help this person now. 245 00:08:38,545 --> 00:08:40,245 And so you kind of expect the revelation, 246 00:08:40,305 --> 00:08:43,325 but then now what I've realized is it's always been there, 247 00:08:43,355 --> 00:08:45,205 it's always been like that for other areas 248 00:08:45,205 --> 00:08:48,045 where I have stewardship, I just feel like being a bishop, 249 00:08:48,465 --> 00:08:51,165 you expect it because it's like, it has been more clear. 250 00:08:51,165 --> 00:08:52,885 So now as a father, I want to go back 251 00:08:53,145 --> 00:08:55,410 and I try to go back in every area of my life. 252 00:08:55,725 --> 00:08:57,765 Whenever I have a thought, I act on it right away the same 253 00:08:57,765 --> 00:08:59,525 way that I would if I'm sitting down with someone. 254 00:08:59,595 --> 00:09:01,045 Yeah. Does that make Yeah, 255 00:09:01,285 --> 00:09:02,285 - Absolutely. 256 00:09:02,285 --> 00:09:02,645 It's remarkable experience. 257 00:09:02,645 --> 00:09:04,605 And, and just to recognize that you have stewardship 258 00:09:04,605 --> 00:09:06,045 elsewhere, regardless of this calling 259 00:09:06,045 --> 00:09:08,085 and those types of things, those dynamics still happen. 260 00:09:08,315 --> 00:09:10,805 Yeah. So tell me just about like walking into 261 00:09:10,805 --> 00:09:13,765 that calling the first few weeks, or picking counselors 262 00:09:13,825 --> 00:09:16,565 or just trying to fi, you know, figure out your footing. 263 00:09:16,675 --> 00:09:18,165 What, what was that like? What comes to mind? 264 00:09:18,235 --> 00:09:20,045 - Yeah. So one of the things that I like to do 265 00:09:20,045 --> 00:09:21,245 that I've done for a while is, 266 00:09:21,345 --> 00:09:24,445 and this is how crazy this was, like how inter it was. 267 00:09:24,865 --> 00:09:27,885 So the past decade until a couple months ago, I've been a, 268 00:09:27,885 --> 00:09:29,725 I've, I've been in teaching seminary right? 269 00:09:29,985 --> 00:09:31,005 In that same week and 270 00:09:31,005 --> 00:09:31,925 - Is full-time seminary full, 271 00:09:32,005 --> 00:09:33,045 - Full-time seminary teacher Yeah. 272 00:09:33,045 --> 00:09:36,685 Here in, in Utah. And what happened was, I had gotten these, 273 00:09:37,025 --> 00:09:38,125 we had this conference 274 00:09:38,505 --> 00:09:41,085 and they're like, whoever wins can take me out to lunch. 275 00:09:41,265 --> 00:09:43,805 And so the leader that I had at the time in seminary, 276 00:09:44,105 --> 00:09:45,165 he was a stake president. 277 00:09:45,265 --> 00:09:47,565 And then in this same conference that I was in, like two, 278 00:09:47,955 --> 00:09:49,205 both of them, they were like, 279 00:09:49,485 --> 00:09:51,605 I had won this ability to like go out to lunch. 280 00:09:51,605 --> 00:09:53,125 Right? Both of them were stake 281 00:09:53,125 --> 00:09:54,485 presidents, both of 'em, very tenured. 282 00:09:54,485 --> 00:09:55,885 They don't understand the gospel very well. 283 00:09:56,025 --> 00:09:58,085 And so when I got called, I was like, 284 00:09:58,145 --> 00:09:59,205 Hey, gonna meet 'em for lunch. 285 00:09:59,205 --> 00:10:00,445 And then I just picked their brain 286 00:10:00,695 --> 00:10:01,965 about like, Hey, what do you do? 287 00:10:02,065 --> 00:10:03,725 How do you do it? And it was really, that's cool. 288 00:10:03,725 --> 00:10:06,685 It was really helpful. And so when I first got called, I, 289 00:10:06,685 --> 00:10:10,045 like, I tried to at talk to as many leaders as I could 290 00:10:10,305 --> 00:10:13,085 who had keys the way that I current, well, 291 00:10:13,165 --> 00:10:14,645 I now would be having keys, 292 00:10:14,905 --> 00:10:16,045 and then I just kind 293 00:10:16,045 --> 00:10:17,605 of pick their brain like, what do you do? 294 00:10:17,605 --> 00:10:19,205 Why do you do it? And try to just get as much 295 00:10:19,205 --> 00:10:20,285 of a perspective as I could. 296 00:10:20,585 --> 00:10:22,885 But when I pick my counselors, I practice 297 00:10:22,885 --> 00:10:23,925 that I already have, that I've been doing 298 00:10:23,925 --> 00:10:25,165 for the past, I don't forever. 299 00:10:25,255 --> 00:10:28,045 Right. Is I always go to the scriptures with a question. 300 00:10:28,465 --> 00:10:31,125 And so whenever I was trying to pick a counselor, 301 00:10:31,245 --> 00:10:32,765 I was just, I thought of that question, right? 302 00:10:32,925 --> 00:10:34,925 I was like, who should be the counselor? Right? 303 00:10:35,345 --> 00:10:36,645 One of the things that I thought was interesting, 304 00:10:36,645 --> 00:10:38,805 the council that I got from my state president was, 305 00:10:38,865 --> 00:10:39,885 Hey, talk to your wife. 306 00:10:40,115 --> 00:10:43,645 Like, make, like, put things that you can help ask, 307 00:10:43,945 --> 00:10:45,885 you know, that you can talk about that aren't confidential. 308 00:10:46,035 --> 00:10:47,565 Like, ask her what your wife thinks. 309 00:10:47,945 --> 00:10:51,245 One of the counselors, specifically my wife suggested, 310 00:10:51,245 --> 00:10:52,445 and I was like, you know what? 311 00:10:52,445 --> 00:10:54,485 That's crazy. And then one of the days that I was, 312 00:10:54,555 --> 00:10:56,485 when I was studying, kind of contemplating it, 313 00:10:56,665 --> 00:10:57,765 he randomly called me 314 00:10:57,905 --> 00:10:59,725 and there was just all these cool connections 315 00:10:59,725 --> 00:11:01,125 with like a dream that I had 316 00:11:01,355 --> 00:11:02,725 that made all these connections. 317 00:11:02,725 --> 00:11:04,245 I was like, yeah, I think that that should be, 318 00:11:04,385 --> 00:11:06,005 he would be the one that I would call. 319 00:11:06,265 --> 00:11:09,645 And, um, trying to think of, uh, what else That was helpful. 320 00:11:09,885 --> 00:11:12,725 I, um, sometimes I think I like 321 00:11:12,725 --> 00:11:14,165 to say it this way, you don't know until you go. 322 00:11:14,275 --> 00:11:16,045 Yeah. And I think that like, especially when it comes 323 00:11:16,065 --> 00:11:18,525 to a decision that you think is so vital, 324 00:11:18,865 --> 00:11:20,365 but there could be a thousand answers. 325 00:11:20,365 --> 00:11:23,485 Right? And so sometimes I just, when I chose 326 00:11:23,545 --> 00:11:24,725 or make decisions, even now, 327 00:11:24,915 --> 00:11:27,685 like making the decision is the thing that I need to do. 328 00:11:27,825 --> 00:11:29,765 And so like, I feel like ping counselors, 329 00:11:29,825 --> 00:11:32,205 or even in different callings in general, I'll have 330 00:11:32,205 --> 00:11:34,485 to just sometimes like, it'll come to me Mm-Hmm. 331 00:11:34,525 --> 00:11:35,405 . And I'll just be like, I know 332 00:11:35,405 --> 00:11:35,925 that's what it is. 333 00:11:35,925 --> 00:11:38,125 Right. And then now, you know, I counsel with my counselors. 334 00:11:38,125 --> 00:11:41,445 Right. Sometimes I just have to move forward and decide. 335 00:11:41,445 --> 00:11:44,005 And even if it's not the right decision, I won't know 336 00:11:44,005 --> 00:11:45,125 until I actually make it. 337 00:11:45,185 --> 00:11:47,205 And I feel like a lot of times we don't really Yeah. 338 00:11:47,345 --> 00:11:48,685 We don't really decide. We're like, 339 00:11:48,685 --> 00:11:49,845 could be that one, it could be that one. 340 00:11:49,845 --> 00:11:52,245 And I'm, I'm like waiting for a bird to fly on my shoulder 341 00:11:52,545 --> 00:11:53,765 and say, pick that one. 342 00:11:53,765 --> 00:11:55,405 You know? Yeah. Yeah. , and that doesn't ever happen. 343 00:11:55,585 --> 00:11:57,445 - But it's in the act of stepping into the water 344 00:11:57,445 --> 00:11:58,605 that then the Red Sea splits. 345 00:11:58,665 --> 00:12:00,725 That's right. Right. Likes Right. Just taking the action. 346 00:12:00,745 --> 00:12:02,005 Or you'll realize, oh, 347 00:12:02,005 --> 00:12:04,765 and now that I'm, you know, up to my knees in this decision, 348 00:12:05,165 --> 00:12:06,565 I realize I'm need to go a different direction. 349 00:12:06,565 --> 00:12:08,805 That's right. That's okay. That's the, the nuance 350 00:12:08,805 --> 00:12:10,205 of revelation on a lot of these things. 351 00:12:10,205 --> 00:12:12,205 Sometimes we want this be spelled out, 352 00:12:12,225 --> 00:12:15,405 but that's, I think those are more sanctifying nature in, 353 00:12:15,545 --> 00:12:16,685 in taking action, you 354 00:12:16,685 --> 00:12:17,685 - Know? 355 00:12:17,685 --> 00:12:19,085 Well, and this is the way that I found this 356 00:12:19,305 --> 00:12:20,765 to be true when I got married 357 00:12:20,765 --> 00:12:22,085 as well, when it came to Revelation. 358 00:12:22,405 --> 00:12:24,245 I think that sometimes God is, 359 00:12:24,265 --> 00:12:25,485 he wants you to own the decision. 360 00:12:25,485 --> 00:12:27,245 Mm-Hmm. . And I feel like, 'cause 361 00:12:27,405 --> 00:12:28,765 whenever I got, when I got married and, 362 00:12:28,825 --> 00:12:31,045 and things, right now I'm, I'm making a decision that, 363 00:12:31,115 --> 00:12:33,045 that I'm counseling with my stick president about. 364 00:12:33,345 --> 00:12:36,485 And at the end of the day, God's like, what do you wanna do? 365 00:12:37,385 --> 00:12:40,245 His will is like, I want you to own the decision. Mm-Hmm. 366 00:12:40,285 --> 00:12:41,725 like, like, you 367 00:12:41,725 --> 00:12:43,165 know, I'm trying to think of the example. 368 00:12:43,635 --> 00:12:46,485 It's this, the idea of like, when you go to decide, 369 00:12:47,385 --> 00:12:48,805 you want God to just kind of tell you. 370 00:12:48,805 --> 00:12:50,565 But when I, that's what I was trying to say with my wife. 371 00:12:51,205 --> 00:12:54,165 I knew that my wife was amazing and I felt led to my wife. 372 00:12:54,225 --> 00:12:55,765 And there's no question that I was led 373 00:12:55,765 --> 00:12:57,205 to my wife, the way I met my wife. 374 00:12:57,495 --> 00:12:59,805 Right. But when it came to getting married, 375 00:13:00,105 --> 00:13:01,245 God never came down. 376 00:13:01,905 --> 00:13:05,045 And, and I never had this huge overwhelming, like, 377 00:13:05,185 --> 00:13:06,285 you better marry her. 378 00:13:06,385 --> 00:13:08,725 But I definitely had a confirmation 379 00:13:09,075 --> 00:13:10,445 that I knew that I loved her. 380 00:13:10,655 --> 00:13:13,165 Right. I had a confirmation that I knew that, 381 00:13:13,715 --> 00:13:14,845 that she's amazing. 382 00:13:15,425 --> 00:13:17,565 But when it came to, should I marry her? 383 00:13:17,715 --> 00:13:20,285 He's like, what do you think? Yeah. Yeah. 384 00:13:20,305 --> 00:13:22,245 And so with making decisions with counselors 385 00:13:22,245 --> 00:13:23,005 and everything like that, I think 386 00:13:23,005 --> 00:13:24,525 sometimes that's what God does. 387 00:13:24,635 --> 00:13:27,605 He's like that way when, 'cause it's in, in a marriage 388 00:13:27,705 --> 00:13:29,445 and in, in a relationship that you have 389 00:13:29,445 --> 00:13:33,085 with your counselors, it's like, if God's just like, do 390 00:13:33,085 --> 00:13:35,565 that, I think in some scenarios when things get hard, 391 00:13:35,935 --> 00:13:38,605 it'll be easy, I think, for us to be like, well, you told me 392 00:13:38,945 --> 00:13:40,565 to do this and it's not working. 393 00:13:40,905 --> 00:13:43,965 But whenever he allowed me to come to know for myself, 394 00:13:44,745 --> 00:13:46,205 it allows me to say, okay. 395 00:13:46,835 --> 00:13:50,445 Like, I committed to, like, I decided I chose 396 00:13:50,745 --> 00:13:52,205 and now I'm more committed. Yeah. Right. 397 00:13:52,395 --> 00:13:53,685 - Yeah. I love that. I, it's 398 00:13:53,685 --> 00:13:55,085 that partnership of, of decisions. 399 00:13:55,105 --> 00:13:57,005 And, and now you frame it, I love that 400 00:13:57,345 --> 00:13:58,965 - Say that we did partnership of decisions. Well, 401 00:13:59,245 --> 00:14:00,885 - I think there's a partnership going on, right? 402 00:14:00,885 --> 00:14:03,405 Yeah. Yeah. Because we're not just these empty vessels that 403 00:14:04,145 --> 00:14:06,565 robots, that God, you know, plugs his knowledge into. 404 00:14:06,795 --> 00:14:08,685 He's, he created us, we're his children, 405 00:14:08,785 --> 00:14:10,645 and he wants us to develop like him. 406 00:14:10,825 --> 00:14:12,565 So he's gonna like push 407 00:14:12,565 --> 00:14:14,125 and pull with us in those, in those things. 408 00:14:14,145 --> 00:14:17,445 And even when we make the wrong decision. Right. 409 00:14:17,745 --> 00:14:19,525 Or even when we make the right decision. 410 00:14:19,585 --> 00:14:22,565 And I love that how you framed of just to own, 411 00:14:22,785 --> 00:14:24,405 how did you put that he wants you 412 00:14:24,405 --> 00:14:25,765 to own own your decision, right? Yeah. 413 00:14:25,765 --> 00:14:27,685 - Own it. Yeah. - Yeah. And I think that's in, in the, 414 00:14:27,825 --> 00:14:30,245 in the mistakes we make, but also in the positive things. 415 00:14:30,245 --> 00:14:33,005 Like, I often see this is a little thing of culture 416 00:14:33,005 --> 00:14:34,125 that rubs me the wrong way. 417 00:14:34,285 --> 00:14:36,325 , sometimes When a decision's made, 418 00:14:36,325 --> 00:14:37,765 let's say a board boundary change 419 00:14:37,945 --> 00:14:40,845 or a new stake presidency's put in, sometimes the leaders, 420 00:14:40,845 --> 00:14:43,045 they want to get in front of the, the audience 421 00:14:43,065 --> 00:14:44,765 and sort of convince them 422 00:14:45,035 --> 00:14:47,285 that this is completely God's choice. 423 00:14:47,975 --> 00:14:49,725 We've received revelation, this is what it is. 424 00:14:49,725 --> 00:14:51,380 It's sort of a Trump card. Like, yeah. Yeah. 425 00:14:51,385 --> 00:14:52,605 So you can't, can't argue with it. 426 00:14:52,705 --> 00:14:56,245 But I just feel like leadership in the gospel works a little 427 00:14:56,245 --> 00:14:57,285 more dynamically than that. 428 00:14:57,285 --> 00:14:59,405 That I do believe that a leader will make a decision 429 00:14:59,405 --> 00:15:00,605 that really is off a lot. 430 00:15:00,605 --> 00:15:02,645 You know, half the congregation may be like, huh. 431 00:15:03,185 --> 00:15:06,165 But it's through that process that people are sanctified. 432 00:15:06,265 --> 00:15:08,725 You know, it, it may be corrected or it may not be, 433 00:15:08,905 --> 00:15:10,645 and hearts may be hurt. 434 00:15:10,785 --> 00:15:13,285 But nonetheless, we turn to Christ for 435 00:15:13,315 --> 00:15:14,485 that healing and repair. 436 00:15:14,705 --> 00:15:17,645 Not because every decision being made is God's decision, 437 00:15:17,745 --> 00:15:19,165 but we gotta own the good, 438 00:15:19,425 --> 00:15:21,125 the good decisions and the bad decisions. 439 00:15:21,125 --> 00:15:23,805 And just say, you know, that's what leadership is. But, but 440 00:15:23,805 --> 00:15:25,165 - That's, that is the essence of the gospel. 441 00:15:25,325 --> 00:15:27,085 I think the assumption, what is the assumption 442 00:15:27,085 --> 00:15:28,445 that we make in those scenarios? 443 00:15:28,545 --> 00:15:30,365 The assumption is what I feel like you're saying. Mm-Hmm. 444 00:15:30,405 --> 00:15:32,845 , we assume that everything is this. 445 00:15:32,875 --> 00:15:36,005 Like it's God's will fill in the blank. 446 00:15:36,075 --> 00:15:39,005 What his will is, is to develop us. Right. 447 00:15:39,375 --> 00:15:41,405 Which I feel like, and I'm not saying I don't know the 448 00:15:41,525 --> 00:15:42,645 scenario, you could pick a thousand, right? 449 00:15:42,825 --> 00:15:45,245 But it's like we make the assumption that, well, 450 00:15:45,245 --> 00:15:46,445 come on, he's trying to, what is he doing? 451 00:15:46,445 --> 00:15:48,005 He's, why does God delegate? 452 00:15:48,425 --> 00:15:50,365 God is delegating, is he trying to be efficient? 453 00:15:50,825 --> 00:15:52,965 Do you really think that what he's trying to do, he just, 454 00:15:52,975 --> 00:15:54,445 let's get this done as fast as we can. 455 00:15:54,445 --> 00:15:57,045 Second coming, let's delegate this thing. What is he doing? 456 00:15:57,045 --> 00:15:59,685 What is, you look at delegation from a business perspective 457 00:15:59,685 --> 00:16:01,125 of like, we're trying to get some money 458 00:16:01,125 --> 00:16:02,605 and get this as efficient as possible. 459 00:16:02,755 --> 00:16:05,125 He's trying to create other leaders. Right? 460 00:16:05,465 --> 00:16:06,645 And how in the world are you? 461 00:16:06,985 --> 00:16:08,485 Can you imagine, can you imagine, 462 00:16:08,785 --> 00:16:09,885 and I don't want to be, this, 463 00:16:10,075 --> 00:16:11,445 this is not meant to be blasphemous. 464 00:16:11,585 --> 00:16:15,685 Can you just imagine Jesus, like just he makes decisions. 465 00:16:15,685 --> 00:16:17,885 Anybody also does God's will. Right. 466 00:16:17,885 --> 00:16:20,205 But whenever he came down to the Nephites, he did 467 00:16:20,205 --> 00:16:21,285 what God wanted him to do. 468 00:16:21,285 --> 00:16:24,085 But in those moments, he chose, I'm gonna bless them now. 469 00:16:24,545 --> 00:16:27,165 He chose, I'm gonna stay. You know what I'm saying? Mm-Hmm. 470 00:16:27,205 --> 00:16:28,205 . Yeah. That's powerful. But, 471 00:16:28,205 --> 00:16:29,485 but he gave him the, he gave them 472 00:16:29,485 --> 00:16:31,245 that he had that authority. 473 00:16:31,865 --> 00:16:33,845 But that's what develops, that's what allows us 474 00:16:33,985 --> 00:16:35,805 to become like him, is that's 475 00:16:35,805 --> 00:16:37,005 how I kind of see delegation more. 476 00:16:37,205 --> 00:16:39,605 'cause in the past I thought delegation was more, we need 477 00:16:39,605 --> 00:16:41,485 to get more stuff done to get more effectively. 478 00:16:41,635 --> 00:16:43,125 Yeah. But he's like, no, we're trying 479 00:16:43,125 --> 00:16:44,165 to create more leaders. 480 00:16:44,375 --> 00:16:46,165 Right. Yeah. And there's no other way to learn 481 00:16:46,165 --> 00:16:47,925 unless you by experience. Right. 482 00:16:47,925 --> 00:16:49,765 - That's so true. And I think we, you know, the concept 483 00:16:49,825 --> 00:16:51,805 of the restoration, we often 484 00:16:52,365 --> 00:16:55,405 mistakenly think the primary reason for the restoration is 485 00:16:55,405 --> 00:16:56,405 to restore a church. 486 00:16:56,745 --> 00:16:59,405 But that secondary, he is here to restore people 487 00:16:59,875 --> 00:17:01,325 through his church. Ooh, 488 00:17:01,325 --> 00:17:02,645 - Preach it to me. Man. That's so 489 00:17:02,925 --> 00:17:03,925 - Powerful. 490 00:17:03,925 --> 00:17:04,805 And so, like you said, he's not, 491 00:17:04,935 --> 00:17:06,605 there are a thousand other ways 492 00:17:06,825 --> 00:17:08,685 to be efficient in restoring a church. 493 00:17:08,795 --> 00:17:10,285 Come on. But that's not his business. 494 00:17:10,475 --> 00:17:13,885 He's here to restore people through his restore church. 495 00:17:14,765 --> 00:17:16,285 - Tithing is the perfect example for this. Yeah. 496 00:17:16,305 --> 00:17:17,445 He does not need your money. 497 00:17:17,545 --> 00:17:19,525 He does not need a dollar from you. 498 00:17:19,585 --> 00:17:22,005 He doesn't, he lets us build the buildings. 499 00:17:22,165 --> 00:17:23,245 'cause he's trying to build us. Yeah. 500 00:17:23,265 --> 00:17:25,805 And it is not as cliche as that sounds. Yeah. He does. 501 00:17:25,955 --> 00:17:28,325 Like, I, I like this. Uh, there's this preacher that I like, 502 00:17:28,505 --> 00:17:30,245 I'm from the south, so I like, you know, I mean, 503 00:17:30,245 --> 00:17:31,285 preaching is preaching, right. 504 00:17:31,785 --> 00:17:33,845 But, um, is, uh, TD Jakes 505 00:17:34,145 --> 00:17:37,805 and he says, God doesn't make chairs, he makes trees. 506 00:17:38,095 --> 00:17:39,685 - Trees. Mm. - And it's just that, 507 00:17:39,685 --> 00:17:41,205 that imagery is like, oh, that f so clear. 508 00:17:41,205 --> 00:17:42,205 Fantastic. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. 509 00:17:42,425 --> 00:17:44,685 He doesn't make chairs. He makes trees, 510 00:17:45,265 --> 00:17:48,965 he provides the tree, but he lets us build the chair. 511 00:17:49,335 --> 00:17:51,525 Nephi. Right? Mm-Hmm. , he built the boat. 512 00:17:51,625 --> 00:17:54,245 God could have built the boat, but Nephi needed the 513 00:17:54,245 --> 00:17:57,485 experience of the asking, seeking and knocking Yeah. 514 00:17:57,545 --> 00:17:58,725 To be able to be developed. 515 00:17:58,985 --> 00:18:01,165 And then obviously the boat physically got him there. 516 00:18:01,465 --> 00:18:03,405 But it's really what the process was, is 517 00:18:03,405 --> 00:18:04,445 what developed the people in the, 518 00:18:04,445 --> 00:18:05,605 in the long run. Right. Yeah. 519 00:18:05,605 --> 00:18:08,605 - And I think this, this framing takes off so much 520 00:18:09,125 --> 00:18:10,485 pressure from the leaders who put 521 00:18:10,725 --> 00:18:11,845 a lot of pressure on themselves. 522 00:18:11,845 --> 00:18:14,445 Right? Like, if we feel like we have to go into an office, 523 00:18:14,535 --> 00:18:17,525 close the door and not leave till God has spoken, like 524 00:18:17,525 --> 00:18:19,005 that's a tall order, right? 525 00:18:19,005 --> 00:18:21,045 Yeah. Yeah. But to recognize 526 00:18:21,045 --> 00:18:22,565 that this is just kind of messy. 527 00:18:22,585 --> 00:18:25,085 And I think back to a time in, when I was bishop, 528 00:18:25,285 --> 00:18:27,885 I called a a a, a woman in the ward. 529 00:18:27,985 --> 00:18:30,165 We did as a bishop, Rick to be the primary president. 530 00:18:30,545 --> 00:18:31,845 We called her, set her apart. 531 00:18:32,105 --> 00:18:34,445 She was in there for like four weeks or something. 532 00:18:34,645 --> 00:18:36,005 I don't remember exactly what happened. 533 00:18:36,225 --> 00:18:37,485 It just sort of fell apart. 534 00:18:37,485 --> 00:18:39,765 And it was evident, wow, this was not a good move. 535 00:18:39,765 --> 00:18:41,885 And we, I'm sure the ward was like thinking when we called 536 00:18:41,885 --> 00:18:43,005 the next primary president, 537 00:18:43,185 --> 00:18:45,085 didn't we just call the primary president? 538 00:18:45,085 --> 00:18:47,765 Right. Yeah. And so just to be able to step into your ward 539 00:18:47,765 --> 00:18:50,845 and say like, this is a sanctifying process. 540 00:18:51,035 --> 00:18:53,845 It's a mortal process that it's not efficient. 541 00:18:53,955 --> 00:18:55,205 It's not meant to be efficient. 542 00:18:55,225 --> 00:18:57,165 But I know from my time as Bishop, 543 00:18:57,405 --> 00:18:58,845 I grew as a person, right? 544 00:18:58,845 --> 00:19:01,005 Yeah. I became more of that chair that God maybe wanted 545 00:19:01,005 --> 00:19:02,085 to intended for me. 546 00:19:02,625 --> 00:19:04,765 And, and I think it just removes that pressure 547 00:19:04,765 --> 00:19:06,085 of just saying, Hey, this is okay. 548 00:19:06,085 --> 00:19:07,165 It's messy and that's okay. 549 00:19:07,295 --> 00:19:08,925 Let's just keep going, figure it out 550 00:19:08,925 --> 00:19:10,285 and know that we're, we're growing from it. 551 00:19:10,465 --> 00:19:11,845 - But that's the assumption that we're making. Right. 552 00:19:11,845 --> 00:19:12,805 We're making the assumption that 553 00:19:12,805 --> 00:19:13,645 it should be some other way. 554 00:19:13,655 --> 00:19:16,685 Right. You think that we look at too much at the, I think 555 00:19:16,685 --> 00:19:18,765 that God is an aggregate God he looks at 556 00:19:18,765 --> 00:19:20,725 and which is to basically the eternal perspective. 557 00:19:20,745 --> 00:19:22,965 He looks at the whole picture. He's not just looking at the 558 00:19:22,985 --> 00:19:24,965 one calling the one thing. 559 00:19:25,545 --> 00:19:26,605 We make all this stuff up 560 00:19:26,625 --> 00:19:29,725 and we make all of these, we have all of these assumptions 561 00:19:29,725 --> 00:19:31,285 because we're trying to justify 562 00:19:31,565 --> 00:19:32,605 whatever it is we're trying to justify. 563 00:19:32,605 --> 00:19:33,845 Right. But that's not how he operates. 564 00:19:33,845 --> 00:19:35,725 - Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I often refer to it as the, 565 00:19:35,725 --> 00:19:38,525 the chalkboard in heaven fallacy that we as a bishop Rick, 566 00:19:38,545 --> 00:19:40,565 we assume that God has this chalkboard in heaven. 567 00:19:40,715 --> 00:19:42,165 Yeah. And every calling in the 568 00:19:42,245 --> 00:19:43,285 ward is written on that chalk. 569 00:19:43,285 --> 00:19:46,005 And he has a one specific name by every calling. 570 00:19:46,065 --> 00:19:47,285 And it's our job Yeah. 571 00:19:47,345 --> 00:19:49,045 To figure out what's on the chalkboard in heaven. 572 00:19:49,045 --> 00:19:50,045 That's just a fallacy. 573 00:19:50,075 --> 00:19:52,725 Like, you know, there's probably the, whoever replaces you 574 00:19:52,725 --> 00:19:53,845 as a bishop, there's probably five 575 00:19:53,845 --> 00:19:55,285 guys in your ward who could do that. Oh, easy 576 00:19:55,485 --> 00:19:55,725 - Question. There's not 577 00:19:56,165 --> 00:19:57,205 - Question, no question. 578 00:19:57,205 --> 00:19:58,525 Who would be like, this is who God wants. 579 00:19:58,555 --> 00:20:00,885 Like, you know, the state presidency is gonna sit down, 580 00:20:01,115 --> 00:20:04,085 pray over it, talk it through and make a decision. 581 00:20:04,265 --> 00:20:06,085 And that doesn't mean that was God's choice, 582 00:20:06,185 --> 00:20:09,245 but it means he was called of God not by God. 583 00:20:09,515 --> 00:20:11,245 - Well then what he said, the Nephi like, 584 00:20:11,245 --> 00:20:12,525 and you see this happening, and I'm not, 585 00:20:12,585 --> 00:20:14,805 I'm not putting a bishop on that level of what Nephi came. 586 00:20:14,805 --> 00:20:16,605 I'm talking like right before Jesus came Uhhuh, 587 00:20:16,605 --> 00:20:19,445 and he's like, whatever you choose, I will stamp it. 588 00:20:19,455 --> 00:20:21,765 Right. Yeah. I will justify it. I'll make it work. 589 00:20:22,265 --> 00:20:25,245 And that's really important for us to realize too. 590 00:20:25,405 --> 00:20:28,205 I think, I mean, think about it as being a dad or a parent. 591 00:20:28,405 --> 00:20:30,245 I mean, how many things do you get wrong? 592 00:20:30,425 --> 00:20:33,005 But God's still allowing you to keep playing the game. 593 00:20:33,055 --> 00:20:34,165 Right. You know what I mean? 594 00:20:34,165 --> 00:20:36,645 Like, I think that our, our perspective of 595 00:20:36,645 --> 00:20:38,685 what God's doing is based, it's kind 596 00:20:38,685 --> 00:20:41,365 of a selfish perspective of what we think or what we hope 597 00:20:41,925 --> 00:20:43,845 'cause 'cause we want it to seem good or look good. 598 00:20:43,845 --> 00:20:45,565 Mm-Hmm. . And that's not, he's not in the, 599 00:20:45,725 --> 00:20:47,885 I don't believe that God is in, in that game of, 600 00:20:48,225 --> 00:20:49,445 Hey, let's make this perfect. 601 00:20:49,635 --> 00:20:50,885 Yeah. You know? Yeah. 602 00:20:51,235 --> 00:20:54,605 Like, oh, today is the only day and Adam and Eve 603 00:20:54,605 --> 00:20:56,805 and the Garden of Eden, when they partook of the fruit, 604 00:20:57,145 --> 00:20:59,165 that's what the whole probationary stage is. 605 00:20:59,165 --> 00:21:01,565 Because we will continue to fail. Right. 606 00:21:01,665 --> 00:21:03,525 We need time to develop. Mm-Hmm. 607 00:21:03,905 --> 00:21:06,925 To me, that is what makes it so clear that we need 608 00:21:06,925 --> 00:21:09,685 that wiggle room because the wiggle room is what's gonna 609 00:21:09,685 --> 00:21:12,085 allow us to, you know, hundreds of years from now 610 00:21:12,085 --> 00:21:13,845 to be like, I'm glad I had that wiggle room 611 00:21:13,965 --> 00:21:15,925 'cause I wouldn't be who I am now. Right. You know? 612 00:21:16,185 --> 00:21:18,885 - So true. So true. Anyway, so what about like, 613 00:21:18,915 --> 00:21:21,765 just leading say the, like working with the Ward council. 614 00:21:21,765 --> 00:21:23,445 What comes to mind with things 615 00:21:23,445 --> 00:21:24,485 you do with your ward council? 616 00:21:24,485 --> 00:21:26,645 Yeah. Whether even the practical things of 617 00:21:26,645 --> 00:21:28,205 how often you meet or just 618 00:21:28,305 --> 00:21:30,805 how do you foster those relationships and, and lead? 619 00:21:31,275 --> 00:21:35,365 - Well, I mean, a lot of what with Ward Council, I mean, 620 00:21:35,365 --> 00:21:37,485 I try to stay, this is a challenge 621 00:21:37,485 --> 00:21:40,925 because there's a lot of perspectives in our same room. 622 00:21:42,025 --> 00:21:45,005 And the one-to-one I feel like makes Ward 623 00:21:45,005 --> 00:21:46,045 Council more effective. 624 00:21:46,635 --> 00:21:50,005 When I meet one-on-one with the people of the Ward council, 625 00:21:50,605 --> 00:21:53,105 I feel like, uh, let me give you an example, 626 00:21:53,205 --> 00:21:54,305 and this is not a word this, 627 00:21:54,465 --> 00:21:55,625 I guess this is a word council thing. 628 00:21:55,965 --> 00:21:59,345 Before, when I would plan Ward Council, you know, 629 00:21:59,425 --> 00:22:00,505 I would kind of send out an agenda. 630 00:22:00,565 --> 00:22:03,505 But now what I've done recently is I've have the executive 631 00:22:03,705 --> 00:22:06,665 secretary, he and I meet separate just him and me. 632 00:22:07,185 --> 00:22:09,505 Hmm. And this is like a simple thing, 633 00:22:10,005 --> 00:22:12,265 but like, even in the times that we've done it, 634 00:22:12,385 --> 00:22:13,665 I feel like I know him way better. 635 00:22:13,685 --> 00:22:16,625 And our connection is way different in our meetings now 636 00:22:16,655 --> 00:22:19,825 because of the one-on-one experiences that I have with him. 637 00:22:19,825 --> 00:22:21,345 Mm-Hmm. . And I know that 638 00:22:21,345 --> 00:22:22,785 that's not maybe exactly what you're saying, 639 00:22:22,785 --> 00:22:24,985 but then so, so with the Relief Society president, 640 00:22:24,985 --> 00:22:27,945 with the elders co president, this is the thing that I think 641 00:22:28,565 --> 00:22:29,825 is one of the biggest differences 642 00:22:30,005 --> 00:22:33,265 and that I've learned from being a teacher is elder Nar. 643 00:22:33,345 --> 00:22:34,545 I remember he was in this interview 644 00:22:34,545 --> 00:22:36,985 and he said, teaching, which I feel like is leading, 645 00:22:37,565 --> 00:22:41,345 is listening first so that you can observe, so 646 00:22:41,345 --> 00:22:44,385 that you can then discern and then you know what to say. 647 00:22:44,925 --> 00:22:48,545 And so when I'm meeting one-on-one, that's my whole mindset 648 00:22:48,685 --> 00:22:51,985 and perspective is, okay, I'm listening. 649 00:22:52,175 --> 00:22:53,345 Like, I could just come in and say, 650 00:22:53,345 --> 00:22:54,905 okay, all right, sit down. 651 00:22:55,005 --> 00:22:56,745 I'm gonna stow this at you. Mm-Hmm. . 652 00:22:56,925 --> 00:22:59,505 But first I need to get a pulse on what's really going on. 653 00:22:59,965 --> 00:23:02,105 You know, the other day I was, I was in the same meeting. 654 00:23:02,545 --> 00:23:03,665 I was talking one-on-one with someone, 655 00:23:03,685 --> 00:23:06,025 and I just listening to what's going on in their real life. 656 00:23:06,565 --> 00:23:09,425 And that dictated like, oh, you know what, if 657 00:23:09,425 --> 00:23:12,065 that's going on in your life, then we need 658 00:23:12,065 --> 00:23:13,225 to bring this up in word council. 659 00:23:13,655 --> 00:23:15,945 Like, if this is going on in your life, 660 00:23:16,455 --> 00:23:17,945 then I'm sure there are many other people. 661 00:23:18,205 --> 00:23:19,705 People assume that everybody inward 662 00:23:19,705 --> 00:23:21,025 councils like, got it all taken care of. 663 00:23:21,045 --> 00:23:22,585 No, they don't. We don't. Mm-Hmm. . 664 00:23:22,605 --> 00:23:24,945 And so we need to address this concern for the whole ward. 665 00:23:25,245 --> 00:23:26,825 And so let's bring that up. Right. 666 00:23:27,255 --> 00:23:29,105 Another thing that I found recently with, 667 00:23:29,105 --> 00:23:33,025 with the tithing declaration is I love that term 668 00:23:33,655 --> 00:23:36,585 because before when it was a tithing settlement, 669 00:23:36,585 --> 00:23:38,465 and lemme I'm getting back to why this has to do 670 00:23:38,465 --> 00:23:39,585 with word council in a second. 671 00:23:39,585 --> 00:23:42,345 Sure. Tithing, the dialing settlement was just, oh, 672 00:23:42,365 --> 00:23:45,365 you settle the tithes and they come in every 10 minutes 673 00:23:45,385 --> 00:23:47,885 or 15 minutes, you set up the little sign on the door, 674 00:23:48,225 --> 00:23:49,805 or you do it with a Calendly 675 00:23:49,805 --> 00:23:51,245 or whatever you do, however you got it. 676 00:23:51,245 --> 00:23:54,285 Yeah. Yeah. But this year I sat down one-on-one 677 00:23:54,835 --> 00:23:56,685 with the clerk, and we prayed 678 00:23:56,685 --> 00:23:58,005 and we're looking for the will of God. 679 00:23:58,005 --> 00:24:00,805 We're like trying to use piece of keys to be directed. 680 00:24:01,185 --> 00:24:03,645 And I just, it just, we were looking at the finances. 681 00:24:03,725 --> 00:24:04,925 I meet with them every once a week 682 00:24:04,925 --> 00:24:06,805 and just quick, quick 15 minute meeting. 683 00:24:07,265 --> 00:24:09,525 And it hit me. He's like, yeah, we need to talk about 684 00:24:09,525 --> 00:24:12,965 how we're gonna set up the tithing declaration and all this. 685 00:24:13,145 --> 00:24:16,245 It just hit me, wait a second. Tithing declaration. 686 00:24:16,305 --> 00:24:18,205 People declare their tithing, wait. 687 00:24:18,545 --> 00:24:21,325 And recently BYU, they came out with a new honor code. 688 00:24:21,665 --> 00:24:24,405 And it's based on what the temple recommend. Mm-Hmm. 689 00:24:24,445 --> 00:24:25,645 the foundation of it. Right. 690 00:24:25,645 --> 00:24:27,205 So what's one of the Temple recommend questions? 691 00:24:27,705 --> 00:24:29,285 Do you pay a full tithe? Right? Yeah. 692 00:24:29,345 --> 00:24:30,445 Are you a full tithe payer? 693 00:24:30,865 --> 00:24:34,085 I'm gonna declare that I am a full tithe pair. 694 00:24:34,315 --> 00:24:36,325 That is part of my covenant is 695 00:24:36,325 --> 00:24:38,445 that I am keeping is to pay tithing. 696 00:24:38,735 --> 00:24:40,685 God's not trying to direct me 697 00:24:40,845 --> 00:24:42,845 and say, I'm trying to keep some rule. 698 00:24:43,405 --> 00:24:45,125 I already promised that I would pay tithing. 699 00:24:45,145 --> 00:24:46,165 Are you keeping that covenant 700 00:24:46,195 --> 00:24:47,525 with the promise that I'm gonna give you? 701 00:24:47,525 --> 00:24:49,325 God's saying, right. Right. And so then 702 00:24:49,545 --> 00:24:50,965 as I'm looking at this, I'm like, 703 00:24:51,565 --> 00:24:52,925 I think there's something in there of how we should 704 00:24:53,045 --> 00:24:54,085 approach tithing declaration. 705 00:24:54,545 --> 00:24:56,885 We should look at it more based on the covenant. 706 00:24:57,185 --> 00:24:58,605 We should focus on the covenant. 707 00:24:58,905 --> 00:25:00,285 We should think about, okay, 708 00:25:00,285 --> 00:25:01,605 well let's, let's pull up the report. 709 00:25:01,945 --> 00:25:03,525 Who doesn't have a temple recommend whose 710 00:25:03,525 --> 00:25:04,845 temple recommends are expired? 711 00:25:04,955 --> 00:25:06,965 Instead of throwing out the sheet, right. 712 00:25:06,985 --> 00:25:10,245 Of who's gonna sign up, let's now invite these individuals 713 00:25:10,545 --> 00:25:12,165 to come in to the office. 714 00:25:12,455 --> 00:25:13,525 Let's prioritize them. 715 00:25:13,865 --> 00:25:16,325 And now instead of us saying, who are we gonna talk about? 716 00:25:17,145 --> 00:25:19,965 How can we invite people to come back on the covenant path 717 00:25:20,035 --> 00:25:21,485 through tithing declaration? 718 00:25:21,785 --> 00:25:23,485 And so now from there, it's like, okay, 719 00:25:23,915 --> 00:25:25,165 well these are the people we need 720 00:25:25,165 --> 00:25:26,725 to discuss in Ward Council. 721 00:25:26,815 --> 00:25:28,325 We're not making a project out of it. 722 00:25:28,325 --> 00:25:29,605 It's like, these are people who haven't been 723 00:25:29,605 --> 00:25:31,645 to church in a while, but that's a different conversation. 724 00:25:31,755 --> 00:25:33,045 Yeah. It's, and now we're 725 00:25:33,045 --> 00:25:34,085 not talking about who hasn't been to church. 726 00:25:34,085 --> 00:25:36,965 It's like, whoa, this is about a covenant. 727 00:25:37,585 --> 00:25:39,725 And now it's not just about tithing. 728 00:25:39,955 --> 00:25:41,725 This is a covenant and oh, 729 00:25:41,725 --> 00:25:42,965 what are the blessings of the covenant? 730 00:25:43,185 --> 00:25:45,885 We wanna invite them to be a part of that again. 731 00:25:46,305 --> 00:25:48,325 And so, and it's been really interesting to see. Yeah. 732 00:25:48,325 --> 00:25:52,365 And that came from meeting one-on-one with the clerk trying 733 00:25:52,365 --> 00:25:55,965 to be guided by keys, getting inspiration and acting on it. 734 00:25:55,965 --> 00:25:58,565 Right. Yeah. And I just hasn't, we haven't perfected it yet. 735 00:25:58,945 --> 00:26:01,085 But that's different than just, oh, that's the thing we do. 736 00:26:01,085 --> 00:26:02,685 Let's just do the thing we did last week. Right. You know, 737 00:26:02,705 --> 00:26:04,645 - It, it takes it from an administrative thing. 738 00:26:04,645 --> 00:26:06,805 We're that's where we, where we settle with, you know, 739 00:26:06,845 --> 00:26:08,405 I remember being bishop, like, how, how can I get 740 00:26:08,405 --> 00:26:10,685 through this list as effectively as possible, efficiently 741 00:26:11,105 --> 00:26:13,485 and get this done so I can get on with Christmas? 742 00:26:13,485 --> 00:26:14,685 Right. But sitting there 743 00:26:14,685 --> 00:26:17,085 and creating space for that, it shifts it from an 744 00:26:17,085 --> 00:26:18,525 administrative thing to a spiritual 745 00:26:18,525 --> 00:26:19,725 administering thing. Right. 746 00:26:19,725 --> 00:26:21,125 - But think about tithing settlement. Okay. 747 00:26:21,145 --> 00:26:22,285 And this is so powerful. 748 00:26:22,305 --> 00:26:25,125 You get to see so many individuals who are so consecrated 749 00:26:25,355 --> 00:26:26,605 that these people are gonna come, 750 00:26:26,795 --> 00:26:28,005 they're gonna come no matter what. 751 00:26:28,085 --> 00:26:30,045 I mean, there's the people that in the past three years, 752 00:26:30,315 --> 00:26:32,365 they're the same people who come Mm-Hmm. 753 00:26:32,405 --> 00:26:34,885 . Right. But now it's like, 754 00:26:34,955 --> 00:26:36,125 okay, they're gonna come anyway. 755 00:26:36,455 --> 00:26:40,525 Right. Can you imagine like you just one, just one person 756 00:26:40,865 --> 00:26:45,405 who wasn't, wasn't acting in, in the, the doctrine 757 00:26:45,405 --> 00:26:47,685 of the covenant, like the, of the promises of the covenant 758 00:26:48,305 --> 00:26:50,365 in one family that wasn't sealed. 759 00:26:50,365 --> 00:26:52,725 And now the invitation isn't about tithing. 760 00:26:52,725 --> 00:26:55,125 The invitation isn't in, is let's get back on this. 761 00:26:55,335 --> 00:26:57,725 Let's get back in working in this covenant. Yeah. 762 00:26:57,995 --> 00:26:59,645 This promise that God's given us. You know what I'm saying? 763 00:26:59,645 --> 00:27:00,805 Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . And so now 764 00:27:01,125 --> 00:27:02,525 the, the conversation's different. 765 00:27:02,545 --> 00:27:04,925 So I think, like Elder Ben 766 00:27:04,925 --> 00:27:05,925 and I talks about this all the time. 767 00:27:06,425 --> 00:27:07,925 It just feels different in war conference. 768 00:27:08,205 --> 00:27:10,045 Whenever you start with, you're like on the focus 769 00:27:10,045 --> 00:27:11,365 of the wild, what's the ordinance? 770 00:27:11,365 --> 00:27:13,045 What's the next ordinance? What's the next covenant? 771 00:27:13,385 --> 00:27:16,245 And instead of just saying, Hey, let's have this activity, 772 00:27:16,635 --> 00:27:19,165 it's like, how can we help the members 773 00:27:19,165 --> 00:27:20,645 of award keep their covenants? 774 00:27:21,105 --> 00:27:22,285 You know? I don't know. 775 00:27:22,285 --> 00:27:23,405 - Yeah. Yeah. No, that's really helpful. 776 00:27:23,825 --> 00:27:25,525 And in another conversation we had, 777 00:27:25,525 --> 00:27:28,045 you talked about just the, how you see the Bishop's office, 778 00:27:28,045 --> 00:27:29,445 like the actual room Yeah. 779 00:27:29,475 --> 00:27:31,085 With the door and the lock and everything. 780 00:27:31,315 --> 00:27:32,885 Yeah. Break that down for me. 781 00:27:33,385 --> 00:27:35,725 - No. So look, the Bishop's office, 782 00:27:35,955 --> 00:27:37,005 it's an interesting title 783 00:27:37,005 --> 00:27:39,965 because now you have an elder scoring president, 784 00:27:40,225 --> 00:27:41,645 you have a release society president, 785 00:27:41,785 --> 00:27:43,965 and what's the, what's the main focus that they have? 786 00:27:44,475 --> 00:27:45,605 It's ministering interviews. 787 00:27:45,635 --> 00:27:47,845 Like, we don't track interviews. 788 00:27:48,105 --> 00:27:49,445 We don't, we don't track Did you do 789 00:27:49,445 --> 00:27:50,605 your home teaching anymore? 790 00:27:50,695 --> 00:27:54,445 Right. We track Have you been doing ministering interviews? 791 00:27:55,025 --> 00:27:57,885 And so what I'm, I'm, I've been trying 792 00:27:57,885 --> 00:28:00,765 to do is I haven't been really that successful yet, but I I, 793 00:28:00,765 --> 00:28:02,405 and make the invitation look this office, 794 00:28:02,585 --> 00:28:03,645 I'm gonna use it on Wednesday. 795 00:28:03,995 --> 00:28:05,285 Okay. Feel free. 796 00:28:05,665 --> 00:28:07,045 Elders co president, these society 797 00:28:07,045 --> 00:28:08,365 president, take it another day. 798 00:28:08,595 --> 00:28:10,885 This isn't my office. This is our office. Right. 799 00:28:11,385 --> 00:28:13,485 You can meet with people here in a, in a way 800 00:28:13,485 --> 00:28:14,845 that, that's comforting. 801 00:28:14,845 --> 00:28:17,765 That's connecting instead of meeting in the, you know, 802 00:28:17,945 --> 00:28:18,965 in the primary room 803 00:28:19,065 --> 00:28:21,365 or wherever it is that you meet, meet in here. 804 00:28:21,575 --> 00:28:23,365 Right. Where people can feel the most comfortable. 805 00:28:23,665 --> 00:28:24,885 And then we can break down that day. 806 00:28:24,885 --> 00:28:27,005 That's one of the things that, that I've tried to do. 807 00:28:27,075 --> 00:28:30,125 It's been challenging though, to kind of shift 808 00:28:30,125 --> 00:28:32,965 that mindset though, because I think that, uh, the key 809 00:28:33,155 --> 00:28:35,885 that you have, it only works for, you know, 810 00:28:35,885 --> 00:28:37,165 it's like getting of the keys has been, 811 00:28:37,185 --> 00:28:38,365 has been challenging to figure that out. 812 00:28:38,395 --> 00:28:40,045 Yeah. Because, because to me, I'm like, what, 813 00:28:40,045 --> 00:28:41,205 what, what are we hiding in this room? 814 00:28:41,205 --> 00:28:42,245 Because I don't, I don't know about you. 815 00:28:42,245 --> 00:28:43,245 - There's nothing valuable. Yeah. 816 00:28:43,245 --> 00:28:44,725 - There's nothing like, don't get into, 817 00:28:45,125 --> 00:28:46,805 'cause we used to hold files in there now, right. 818 00:28:46,905 --> 00:28:47,965 We don't do that anymore. Yeah. 819 00:28:47,995 --> 00:28:49,925 It's all electronic. So, and you're 820 00:28:49,925 --> 00:28:52,165 - Not like, you know, stockpiling, tithing dollars and cash. 821 00:28:52,965 --> 00:28:54,325 - There's, there's nothing in there. It's like, 822 00:28:54,385 --> 00:28:56,085 nobody can enter into this room. 823 00:28:56,635 --> 00:28:58,725 Lock it. Yeah. You can't come in. No. 824 00:28:58,795 --> 00:29:01,925 Just get the key to everybody and they can come in 825 00:29:02,305 --> 00:29:04,205 and meet and have these interviews. Yeah. 826 00:29:04,205 --> 00:29:06,125 - Yeah. And especially with the shift of, you know, 827 00:29:06,125 --> 00:29:08,885 there's been a emphasis for bishops to focus on the youth. 828 00:29:08,885 --> 00:29:12,285 Right? That's right. And to enable elders, presidents 829 00:29:12,285 --> 00:29:14,045 and release society presidents to really minister in the 830 00:29:14,045 --> 00:29:16,045 lives of, of those adults that they preside over. 831 00:29:16,045 --> 00:29:17,845 Right. We say that on paper, 832 00:29:18,105 --> 00:29:20,605 but sometimes we haven't put the infrastructure in place 833 00:29:20,825 --> 00:29:21,965 of, of doing that. 834 00:29:21,965 --> 00:29:23,285 Like, it's easier for a bishop 835 00:29:23,505 --> 00:29:24,805 to do that because he has an office. 836 00:29:24,865 --> 00:29:27,045 He has a secretary, they call the secretary. That's right. 837 00:29:27,045 --> 00:29:28,245 They sit outside the office, they come 838 00:29:28,245 --> 00:29:29,285 in the office, they chat. 839 00:29:29,625 --> 00:29:30,685 That's right. The elders Corps 840 00:29:30,685 --> 00:29:31,845 president, or least site president. 841 00:29:31,875 --> 00:29:33,525 That infrastructure hasn't really been in place. 842 00:29:33,625 --> 00:29:36,325 So for a local ward to say, you know, no, 843 00:29:36,325 --> 00:29:37,365 this office is yours. 844 00:29:37,435 --> 00:29:39,005 Yeah. Let's, you know, obviously we gotta figure 845 00:29:39,005 --> 00:29:40,045 out scheduling and whatnot. 846 00:29:40,045 --> 00:29:43,165 Yeah. But now they have a place to, to minister 847 00:29:43,185 --> 00:29:45,285 or to, to hold the interviews that they're supposed to do. 848 00:29:45,425 --> 00:29:47,525 Or if there's an elder that really just wants 849 00:29:47,525 --> 00:29:48,845 to have a tough conversation 850 00:29:48,845 --> 00:29:50,005 with his elders Corps president, 851 00:29:50,105 --> 00:29:51,125 why not the bishop's office? 852 00:29:51,125 --> 00:29:53,645 Right. Yeah. Why, why not have a place to seclude 853 00:29:53,705 --> 00:29:55,205 and jump into it, you know? Ooh. And 854 00:29:55,205 --> 00:29:56,205 - We need it so bad. 855 00:29:56,205 --> 00:29:57,965 Like, how are we gonna focus on the youth 856 00:29:58,905 --> 00:30:00,845 and how am I going to make an invitation 857 00:30:00,845 --> 00:30:02,325 to an elder school president or even a, 858 00:30:02,465 --> 00:30:03,725 or release society president? 859 00:30:04,265 --> 00:30:06,605 And, but, but we wanna make it as easy 860 00:30:06,625 --> 00:30:07,805 as possible for them to do it. 861 00:30:07,805 --> 00:30:09,885 Because a lot of the times we spend a majority 862 00:30:09,885 --> 00:30:10,925 of our time meeting with adults, 863 00:30:11,585 --> 00:30:15,285 but the other adult leaders don't have a way 864 00:30:15,285 --> 00:30:16,405 to meet with the adults. 865 00:30:16,515 --> 00:30:18,925 Yeah. You know, and I think that's a simple way 866 00:30:19,035 --> 00:30:20,205 that we could potentially do it. 867 00:30:20,205 --> 00:30:22,845 And in fact, I had this old, there's a ward that I was in, 868 00:30:23,305 --> 00:30:25,365 and it had a Elders Quorum office. 869 00:30:25,665 --> 00:30:27,565 Oh, wow. That, but it was, I like from back in the day, 870 00:30:27,565 --> 00:30:28,885 Uhhuh, this was, this was, it was probably 871 00:30:28,885 --> 00:30:30,085 built in like, like 872 00:30:30,225 --> 00:30:31,605 - The fifties or something. Right. Something like that. 873 00:30:31,605 --> 00:30:33,805 - Yeah. And the Elders Quorum president had an office. 874 00:30:34,175 --> 00:30:37,205 Right. But I think that we could, it doesn't need 875 00:30:37,205 --> 00:30:39,245 to be multiple, I think it could just be the same place. 876 00:30:39,415 --> 00:30:41,845 Right. You know? Yeah. And, um, yeah. 877 00:30:42,275 --> 00:30:44,525 - Yeah. That's cool. Uh, talk to me about, you know, 878 00:30:44,525 --> 00:30:46,365 with the emphasis on youth as a bishop, 879 00:30:46,595 --> 00:30:48,885 like any unique dynamics come, there's a lot 880 00:30:48,885 --> 00:30:51,245 of Bishop Rick struggling with what this looks like 881 00:30:51,265 --> 00:30:52,685 and application and whatnot. 882 00:30:53,205 --> 00:30:56,725 - A lot of this comes from our, our assumptions, I believe. 883 00:30:57,145 --> 00:30:59,925 Now look, to me, the gospel's very simple 884 00:31:00,545 --> 00:31:04,925 and we create, so this is gonna sound like a humble brag, 885 00:31:04,925 --> 00:31:06,725 and this is not I So go for it, man. 886 00:31:06,725 --> 00:31:08,685 So, Brad Wilcox, I've known Brad Wilcox for, 887 00:31:08,905 --> 00:31:10,205 and he's, he's in the young men's 888 00:31:10,255 --> 00:31:11,605 presidency, general presidency. 889 00:31:11,985 --> 00:31:15,245 And I've known him since from back in, in, in, uh, at BYU. 890 00:31:15,625 --> 00:31:16,885 And he's been a good friend of mine. 891 00:31:17,185 --> 00:31:19,765 And when I got called to be a bishop, I just called him up 892 00:31:19,765 --> 00:31:21,245 and I was like, Hey, what advice would you give? 893 00:31:21,445 --> 00:31:22,805 'cause you, you have these conversations 894 00:31:22,835 --> 00:31:24,245 with general leaders all the time. 895 00:31:24,635 --> 00:31:26,045 What would you say? Like, 896 00:31:26,185 --> 00:31:27,285 and he said, this is what he said to me, 897 00:31:27,285 --> 00:31:28,885 and I've tried to live by this, this advice. 898 00:31:28,955 --> 00:31:33,125 He's like, if I were you, I would treat your first 899 00:31:33,145 --> 00:31:35,285 and second assistant in the priest quorum. 900 00:31:35,305 --> 00:31:37,725 And even, even the young women too, right. 901 00:31:38,145 --> 00:31:40,965 In their class, like the assistants, 902 00:31:41,035 --> 00:31:42,165 they like if you're on a mission, 903 00:31:42,355 --> 00:31:43,325 like when you're on a mission, 904 00:31:43,325 --> 00:31:44,245 because he was a mission president. 905 00:31:44,245 --> 00:31:45,325 Mm-Hmm. And he gave that perspective. 906 00:31:45,345 --> 00:31:47,045 And he is like, when I was a mission president, 907 00:31:47,165 --> 00:31:48,685 I would call the assistants on my mission, 908 00:31:48,825 --> 00:31:52,005 and I wouldn't, I would say, Hey, such and such is going on. 909 00:31:52,465 --> 00:31:53,965 Go, will you, will you go do this? 910 00:31:54,425 --> 00:31:56,245 Uh, we need to move this, these elders 911 00:31:56,245 --> 00:31:58,085 or these sisters out, out, uh, 912 00:31:58,185 --> 00:32:00,325 and we need to change over, da da da da da. 913 00:32:00,355 --> 00:32:02,805 There's a finance secretary. They were, they were elders. 914 00:32:02,805 --> 00:32:05,245 They were sisters. Right. The, the leaders in the mission. 915 00:32:05,245 --> 00:32:08,165 Yeah. And so he is like, I would treat the leaders in 916 00:32:08,165 --> 00:32:09,605 the youth like that. 917 00:32:10,025 --> 00:32:12,165 And so that's what I've tried to do. 918 00:32:12,265 --> 00:32:13,925 So, um, I can't even tell you, 919 00:32:13,925 --> 00:32:15,485 this was the coolest experience I had. 920 00:32:15,805 --> 00:32:17,645 I was at BYU working on this project 921 00:32:18,225 --> 00:32:19,325 for something I was working on. 922 00:32:19,705 --> 00:32:21,925 And there was, there's a, there was a man in our ward 923 00:32:22,465 --> 00:32:25,685 who young, he got cancer for a second time. 924 00:32:25,985 --> 00:32:27,805 Wow. And so, 925 00:32:27,805 --> 00:32:31,005 as a quorum in the priest quorum we're like, how can we help him? 926 00:32:31,465 --> 00:32:32,965 And so I said, okay. 927 00:32:33,065 --> 00:32:36,125 Hey, so-and-So would you go to his house 928 00:32:36,505 --> 00:32:37,565 and ask him what he needs? 929 00:32:38,065 --> 00:32:40,005 And don't ask him what we recommend. 930 00:32:40,005 --> 00:32:42,045 Like what would be the best way 931 00:32:42,045 --> 00:32:43,085 to minister to you right now? 932 00:32:43,355 --> 00:32:44,485 What is the thing that you need? 933 00:32:44,825 --> 00:32:45,885 And so he went 934 00:32:46,385 --> 00:32:48,365 and he found out by himself 935 00:32:48,835 --> 00:32:50,725 with the other member of the quorum. 936 00:32:51,025 --> 00:32:53,125 And they said, yeah, they need help with their yard. 937 00:32:53,405 --> 00:32:54,405 'cause they are, uh, in the process 938 00:32:54,405 --> 00:32:56,445 before they found out they got new sprinklers. 939 00:32:56,445 --> 00:32:58,045 Right. And then they needed 940 00:32:58,045 --> 00:32:59,525 to put down the sod and all that kinda stuff. 941 00:32:59,525 --> 00:33:01,485 There was some trench they needed to dig. 942 00:33:01,745 --> 00:33:04,325 And so I said, Hey, this particular young man, I said, 943 00:33:04,945 --> 00:33:06,205 now will you go back to him 944 00:33:06,665 --> 00:33:09,205 and ask him to set up the best time to go and da, da da. 945 00:33:09,305 --> 00:33:10,565 So, and that's the last I heard about it. 946 00:33:10,705 --> 00:33:11,805 So now I'm at working on this 947 00:33:11,805 --> 00:33:12,925 project and I'm thinking, oh, it's Saturday. 948 00:33:13,425 --> 00:33:15,765 I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I think I left them hang. 949 00:33:16,075 --> 00:33:17,645 Like I wasn't there for this service, 950 00:33:17,755 --> 00:33:18,965 this service that they set up. 951 00:33:19,445 --> 00:33:21,365 I called this youth. It was the coolest experience. 952 00:33:21,405 --> 00:33:23,565 I called him on the phone, he picks up 953 00:33:23,705 --> 00:33:24,965 and he is like, Hey Bishop. 954 00:33:25,425 --> 00:33:27,485 I'm like, Hey. 'cause they never told me about 955 00:33:27,705 --> 00:33:28,885 the, I knew it was gonna happen. 956 00:33:28,885 --> 00:33:30,925 They never told me about it. And I'm like feeling 957 00:33:30,925 --> 00:33:32,085 all guilty, like, I didn't show up. 958 00:33:32,115 --> 00:33:35,005 He's like, no, we're here right now. Like, he set it up. 959 00:33:35,105 --> 00:33:38,925 Oh wow. He got all the young men to be there. He did it. 960 00:33:39,065 --> 00:33:42,485 Wow. It was him. And so instead of throwing parties, 961 00:33:42,595 --> 00:33:43,925 he's like, we don't need to throw parties 962 00:33:44,265 --> 00:33:45,685 for the youth all the time. 963 00:33:45,985 --> 00:33:47,805 We just need to invite them 964 00:33:47,825 --> 00:33:49,765 to be a part the same way you would call the elders going 965 00:33:49,765 --> 00:33:51,245 president or at least Saudi president. 966 00:33:51,295 --> 00:33:55,285 Right. Yeah. Another thing that I've done is when I go 967 00:33:55,285 --> 00:33:57,325 and minister, I can't think of a better way. 968 00:33:57,345 --> 00:33:59,485 If we're trying to, I can just show 'em what I do. 969 00:33:59,965 --> 00:34:01,245 I just bring them with me. Mm-Hmm. 970 00:34:01,285 --> 00:34:02,525 like, I'm gonna go and visit. 971 00:34:03,055 --> 00:34:05,445 Let's go and let's just switch it out round robin. 972 00:34:06,065 --> 00:34:09,005 And, um, I'll invite one of the priests to come with me 973 00:34:09,465 --> 00:34:11,645 or to come with me while I'm ministering to people. 974 00:34:11,955 --> 00:34:13,245 Like sometimes there's appointments, 975 00:34:13,245 --> 00:34:14,925 sometimes we're just knocking on doors. 976 00:34:15,425 --> 00:34:18,725 And I've had some of the most powerful experiences 977 00:34:18,755 --> 00:34:21,645 that I think, I really believe that God allowed 978 00:34:21,645 --> 00:34:23,525 that really powerful experience to happen with 979 00:34:23,525 --> 00:34:25,205 that particular youth. 980 00:34:25,795 --> 00:34:29,245 That was way more useful than just talking about 981 00:34:29,245 --> 00:34:30,285 it in, in the room. 982 00:34:30,555 --> 00:34:31,765 Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Absolutely. 983 00:34:31,765 --> 00:34:33,005 - It's an experience, not just all lesson. 984 00:34:33,135 --> 00:34:35,165 - Right? Yeah. Like, like, how else can I teach you better 985 00:34:35,165 --> 00:34:37,805 than just, this is what bishops do, will you come with me? 986 00:34:37,915 --> 00:34:40,885 Yeah. And we went to a lady's house 987 00:34:41,425 --> 00:34:43,325 and it was so powerful. 988 00:34:43,445 --> 00:34:45,445 I just remember sitting, he said the next day, 989 00:34:45,445 --> 00:34:46,765 I can't remember what he said exactly, 990 00:34:46,785 --> 00:34:49,565 but he was like, that was such a powerful experience. 991 00:34:50,055 --> 00:34:51,925 Which is different than just sitting in elders 992 00:34:51,945 --> 00:34:53,445 or in in, uh, priest quorum 993 00:34:53,625 --> 00:34:56,445 and just, Hey, what do you guys wanna do for you 994 00:34:57,205 --> 00:34:58,205 - ? 995 00:34:58,205 --> 00:34:59,525 Yeah. You know? Yeah. What do you wanna do Wednesday night? 996 00:34:59,525 --> 00:35:02,485 Like, or Yeah. You know, pizza party or play basketball 997 00:35:02,505 --> 00:35:03,885 or rather than, you know, 998 00:35:03,885 --> 00:35:05,765 invite them into the mission of, of your work. 999 00:35:05,985 --> 00:35:07,805 - That's right. - Yeah. That's 1000 00:35:07,965 --> 00:35:08,965 - Powerful. 1001 00:35:08,965 --> 00:35:09,965 It's the work being on a mission. 1002 00:35:10,515 --> 00:35:11,885 It's all the workers of salvation. 1003 00:35:12,545 --> 00:35:15,005 And what better way to do it than to, instead 1004 00:35:15,005 --> 00:35:16,085 of talking about it Yeah. 1005 00:35:16,255 --> 00:35:17,525 Let's bring them with us now. 1006 00:35:17,525 --> 00:35:20,205 I know if you have a big ward, you can't take 'em all out, 1007 00:35:20,205 --> 00:35:22,485 but I mean, I bet you could once a week. 1008 00:35:22,675 --> 00:35:24,405 Yeah. You're gonna be doing it anyway. Right. 1009 00:35:24,425 --> 00:35:25,765 Why don't you just take somebody with you? Yeah. 1010 00:35:26,025 --> 00:35:27,205 - You, you're going to that side 1011 00:35:27,205 --> 00:35:28,285 of the ward that's an hour away. 1012 00:35:28,395 --> 00:35:30,405 Yeah. Find the priest that's in that area. Right. 1013 00:35:30,405 --> 00:35:32,005 That's right. And make it happen. Yeah. 1014 00:35:32,005 --> 00:35:33,685 And I love that framing. I never thought about that. 1015 00:35:33,945 --> 00:35:36,085 We call them first and second assistant the same 1016 00:35:36,085 --> 00:35:38,285 as a mission president call has assistance. You know? 1017 00:35:38,285 --> 00:35:40,725 - That's cool. Yeah. But what do they do? Yeah, they assist. 1018 00:35:41,025 --> 00:35:43,285 - That's right. Yeah. - That's so 1019 00:35:43,665 --> 00:35:44,565 - That's awesome. Young 1020 00:35:44,565 --> 00:35:45,565 - Women can do the same. 1021 00:35:46,005 --> 00:35:49,005 I have a little, like, I just asked the youth, I listened 1022 00:35:49,005 --> 00:35:50,565 to, what do you, what would you make this experience 1023 00:35:50,565 --> 00:35:51,845 better whenever I meet with you? 1024 00:35:52,145 --> 00:35:53,285 And they were like, you know, it'd be good 1025 00:35:53,285 --> 00:35:54,445 to have some like treats or something. 1026 00:35:54,525 --> 00:35:56,245 I was like, okay. And I turned it around 1027 00:35:56,245 --> 00:35:57,845 and said, Hey, would you be willing 1028 00:35:57,865 --> 00:35:59,125 to go get 'em Uhhuh ? 1029 00:35:59,145 --> 00:36:00,165 And you know what she did? 1030 00:36:00,545 --> 00:36:02,565 She went to Costco by herself 1031 00:36:02,945 --> 00:36:04,805 and she stocked it up. . 1032 00:36:05,025 --> 00:36:06,405 - That's awesome. You know, I mean, awesome. Yep. 1033 00:36:06,405 --> 00:36:08,165 Turned in a receipt and everything. Yeah. 1034 00:36:08,425 --> 00:36:09,605 - Did you see what I'm saying? Yeah. 1035 00:36:09,635 --> 00:36:10,765 It's been powerful to see, 1036 00:36:11,065 --> 00:36:12,365 you know, it's been really powerful. 1037 00:36:12,475 --> 00:36:14,685 - Yeah. That's cool. Anything else with youth 1038 00:36:14,705 --> 00:36:16,045 or worth mentioning or? 1039 00:36:16,725 --> 00:36:19,365 - I think we need to be better at helping people understand 1040 00:36:19,365 --> 00:36:20,525 where repentance really is. 1041 00:36:20,885 --> 00:36:22,045 - I was, that's where I was gonna go next. 1042 00:36:22,365 --> 00:36:24,245 I wanna know like your mo with repentance 1043 00:36:24,245 --> 00:36:25,565 or how you teach it, how you 1044 00:36:25,565 --> 00:36:26,645 facilitate it, all those things. 1045 00:36:27,125 --> 00:36:29,325 - I think with the youth, especially teaching seminary 1046 00:36:29,325 --> 00:36:31,245 for about a decade, like they just 1047 00:36:31,245 --> 00:36:32,765 need somebody to listen to him. 1048 00:36:33,075 --> 00:36:35,605 When I meet with them. I got this from somebody else. 1049 00:36:35,705 --> 00:36:38,365 Uh, uh, my brother was a bishop at the time 1050 00:36:38,865 --> 00:36:40,325 and uh, he shared something with me 1051 00:36:40,325 --> 00:36:41,765 that his state president did with him. 1052 00:36:42,065 --> 00:36:43,285 And there's four main questions 1053 00:36:43,285 --> 00:36:44,965 that he asks when he does his 1054 00:36:44,965 --> 00:36:46,405 interviews with people to minister. 1055 00:36:46,405 --> 00:36:48,645 And, and most of it is just to model how to minister. Right. 1056 00:36:49,425 --> 00:36:50,885 And the question number one has 1057 00:36:50,885 --> 00:36:52,005 to do with how do you hear him? 1058 00:36:52,005 --> 00:36:53,365 What are you doing currently to hear him? 1059 00:36:53,365 --> 00:36:54,885 Because I feel like that's the question 1060 00:36:54,885 --> 00:36:57,685 that comes up often is how do I know it's God or me? 1061 00:36:57,985 --> 00:37:02,005 And so, well let's, so I, on a consistent basis, I'm like, 1062 00:37:02,005 --> 00:37:04,485 okay, well what is like, what are you doing to hear him? 1063 00:37:04,485 --> 00:37:06,005 What questions do you have about hearing him? 1064 00:37:06,825 --> 00:37:08,525 The second is, it has to do more with 1065 00:37:09,105 --> 00:37:10,325 who do you know that needs help? 1066 00:37:10,755 --> 00:37:14,085 Like, how else can I know who, who the poor are in spirit 1067 00:37:14,265 --> 00:37:15,365 or physically or whatever. 1068 00:37:15,585 --> 00:37:17,285 And so I asked, do you know anybody who needs help? 1069 00:37:17,705 --> 00:37:19,485 And I'm trying to open up that door of like, 1070 00:37:19,485 --> 00:37:21,605 if there's anybody that's being hurt in any way 1071 00:37:21,605 --> 00:37:23,725 that they know of or that needs help in any way. 1072 00:37:24,065 --> 00:37:27,245 And then, uh, the third question has to do with, you know, 1073 00:37:27,245 --> 00:37:30,565 how can we, what can we do better to help with the work 1074 00:37:30,565 --> 00:37:32,445 of salvation and the ward on both sides of the veil? 1075 00:37:33,065 --> 00:37:34,285 Excuse me. That's actually number two. 1076 00:37:34,285 --> 00:37:36,085 And then number three is the one about who needs help. 1077 00:37:36,085 --> 00:37:38,005 And then the third is what do you need help with? Hmm. 1078 00:37:38,065 --> 00:37:40,285 And I do this with youth and with people that I meet with. 1079 00:37:40,665 --> 00:37:42,125 And then I say, which one do you wanna talk about? 1080 00:37:42,145 --> 00:37:44,165 1, 2, 3, or four? And I let them choose 1081 00:37:44,825 --> 00:37:47,085 and then guided through the spirit, right? 1082 00:37:47,085 --> 00:37:48,325 And I'm listening first. Right. 1083 00:37:48,925 --> 00:37:51,845 I then I then say, then I'll address based off of 1084 00:37:51,845 --> 00:37:54,085 what I'm hearing from them of what I can invite them to do. 1085 00:37:54,625 --> 00:37:55,685 And so the fourth one is, 1086 00:37:55,745 --> 00:37:56,765 you know, what questions do you have? 1087 00:37:56,775 --> 00:37:58,725 Let's bring out the, for the strength of youth, 1088 00:37:59,185 --> 00:38:00,205 are there any questions in there? 1089 00:38:00,205 --> 00:38:02,125 And I try to invite them to read it and come beforehand, 1090 00:38:02,745 --> 00:38:04,685 before they come like, Hey, will you look it over? 1091 00:38:04,685 --> 00:38:06,405 And then, you know, I'm gonna ask you that question. 1092 00:38:06,675 --> 00:38:08,285 What questions do you have about it? 1093 00:38:08,745 --> 00:38:11,165 And so now it's an open dialogue where I'm listening so 1094 00:38:11,165 --> 00:38:13,885 that I can discern instead of just saying, Hey, this is 1095 00:38:13,885 --> 00:38:14,925 what I need think you should know. 1096 00:38:15,195 --> 00:38:17,605 It's like, no, what do they need? Right. 1097 00:38:17,905 --> 00:38:21,405 And I've found that to be very helpful to know where 1098 00:38:21,405 --> 00:38:22,645 to go with them. 1099 00:38:22,865 --> 00:38:24,005 And it's so customized. 1100 00:38:24,115 --> 00:38:26,645 It's not just when I meet with somebody, we talk about this 1101 00:38:27,385 --> 00:38:28,725 and it's been so powerful. 1102 00:38:28,785 --> 00:38:30,525 So then, so then now I'm talking about 1103 00:38:30,525 --> 00:38:31,525 what they wanna talk about 1104 00:38:32,235 --> 00:38:33,485 that they're choosing to talk about. 1105 00:38:33,865 --> 00:38:36,705 But it's based on something that I've found is in line 1106 00:38:36,735 --> 00:38:38,825 with the things that youth really need to know. 1107 00:38:38,935 --> 00:38:41,825 - Yeah. And this is specifically more often not in the 1108 00:38:41,825 --> 00:38:43,785 context of these routine youth interviews that, 1109 00:38:43,815 --> 00:38:45,305 that you're doing as the bishop. Yeah, 1110 00:38:45,305 --> 00:38:46,305 - That's right. 1111 00:38:46,305 --> 00:38:46,945 Okay. But it's the same pattern 1112 00:38:46,945 --> 00:38:48,145 that I use with adults as well. 1113 00:38:48,145 --> 00:38:49,665 Oh, cool. But it's that same idea of listening, 1114 00:38:49,665 --> 00:38:51,105 observing, discerning. 1115 00:38:51,405 --> 00:38:54,025 So I know what to say and then I can make invitations. 1116 00:38:54,195 --> 00:38:57,145 Right. Yeah. The other thing with it comes to repentance 1117 00:38:57,575 --> 00:39:01,105 that I found with youth and even with adults. 1118 00:39:01,615 --> 00:39:03,185 They say people come 1119 00:39:03,655 --> 00:39:05,225 that they could be repenting on their own. 1120 00:39:05,645 --> 00:39:07,345 Not, I'm like, let me, lemme back up when I say that. 1121 00:39:07,375 --> 00:39:09,745 What I mean by that is I'll ask this question. 1122 00:39:09,935 --> 00:39:11,945 I'll say somebody, say somebody will talk about 1123 00:39:12,025 --> 00:39:13,225 a sin that they've been involved in. 1124 00:39:13,225 --> 00:39:15,665 And I say, well, have you talked to God about it? Hmm. 1125 00:39:16,045 --> 00:39:19,225 And I'm telling you, most times, majority 1126 00:39:19,225 --> 00:39:20,465 of the times people say no. 1127 00:39:20,805 --> 00:39:23,305 - Wow. Because I think oftentimes the bishop's office feels 1128 00:39:23,305 --> 00:39:25,745 like step one, that's not what I gotta to start repentance. 1129 00:39:25,745 --> 00:39:27,745 I gotta go see the bishop. When in reality it could be step 1130 00:39:27,745 --> 00:39:29,865 4, 5, 10. Right. In all this, 1131 00:39:30,495 --> 00:39:33,625 - Well, the divine gift of forgiveness that book the myths, 1132 00:39:33,815 --> 00:39:36,465 they're not the the what are the main, 1133 00:39:36,525 --> 00:39:37,545 the assumptions that we make. 1134 00:39:37,875 --> 00:39:41,185 Repentance is a punishment. Penalty or payment for sin. 1135 00:39:41,755 --> 00:39:45,705 Repentance is what saves us. Repentance is an event. 1136 00:39:45,975 --> 00:39:48,185 Basically. If it doesn't involve the redeemer, 1137 00:39:48,185 --> 00:39:49,385 it's not repentance. 1138 00:39:49,625 --> 00:39:50,625 Hmm. And there's that chapter, 1139 00:39:50,745 --> 00:39:51,785 I think it's either nine or eight. 1140 00:39:51,785 --> 00:39:54,865 Right? It's like repentance is only through the fa, it's 1141 00:39:54,865 --> 00:39:56,025 through the father and the son. 1142 00:39:56,445 --> 00:39:59,505 And it's cool 'cause it's like you have now three witnesses 1143 00:39:59,935 --> 00:40:02,065 that you've repented if you do it this way. 1144 00:40:02,065 --> 00:40:04,745 Right? Mm-Hmm. . But primarily the interesting 1145 00:40:04,745 --> 00:40:05,905 thing though is that this is 1146 00:40:05,905 --> 00:40:07,865 what I would say when it comes to repentances. 1147 00:40:08,385 --> 00:40:11,305 I feel like we could do, I could do a better job. 1148 00:40:11,305 --> 00:40:13,265 We could all do a better job at teaching our children 1149 00:40:13,725 --> 00:40:16,505 and even all of us of like, these are the two questions 1150 00:40:16,505 --> 00:40:18,985 that I think that I like to really focus on 1151 00:40:19,095 --> 00:40:20,865 that I think if we understood these two 1152 00:40:21,065 --> 00:40:22,425 questions, it is life changing. 1153 00:40:22,725 --> 00:40:27,025 Who is God and who are you? So who is God and who are you? 1154 00:40:27,265 --> 00:40:30,505 Hmm. And I feel like the reason why we don't really want 1155 00:40:30,505 --> 00:40:32,705 to talk to God is because we don't really know who he is. 1156 00:40:32,985 --> 00:40:35,585 'cause if we didn't know who he was, we would want 1157 00:40:35,605 --> 00:40:37,065 to run to him with our sins. 1158 00:40:37,065 --> 00:40:39,625 Yeah. If we really knew who Jesus Christ was, 1159 00:40:40,045 --> 00:40:41,105 we wouldn't hide from him. 1160 00:40:41,525 --> 00:40:43,545 You know? Right. And you can tell a lot about 1161 00:40:43,645 --> 00:40:46,905 how people feel about God by how they interact with 1162 00:40:46,925 --> 00:40:48,185 who they feel represents him. 1163 00:40:48,185 --> 00:40:49,225 Mm-Hmm. , right? 1164 00:40:49,695 --> 00:40:51,305 - Yeah. If they walk in there with a lot of shame 1165 00:40:51,325 --> 00:40:53,065 or they even avoid, they've been putting it off 1166 00:40:53,065 --> 00:40:55,265 for months, that's power. 1167 00:40:55,445 --> 00:40:57,585 - Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like I was talking 1168 00:40:57,585 --> 00:40:58,945 to my wife the other day, I was like, you know what? 1169 00:40:59,025 --> 00:41:00,585 I think the way they interact 1170 00:41:01,165 --> 00:41:03,225 or the perception of the bishop 1171 00:41:03,605 --> 00:41:06,625 or leadership is probably is, it may be, I don't know. 1172 00:41:07,055 --> 00:41:10,545 It's probably similar to how they might feel with God. Yeah. 1173 00:41:11,005 --> 00:41:12,985 And there's this quote from Elder, from Joseph Smith 1174 00:41:12,985 --> 00:41:15,505 that says, like, to know God is, 1175 00:41:15,505 --> 00:41:16,745 and I'm, I'm butchering this 1176 00:41:16,745 --> 00:41:17,905 to know God is really to know yourself. 1177 00:41:18,345 --> 00:41:21,065 Hmm. And and the more we know about God, 1178 00:41:21,525 --> 00:41:22,665 the more we can know. 1179 00:41:23,365 --> 00:41:25,185 If we really know how merciful he is, 1180 00:41:25,445 --> 00:41:27,105 it makes us wanna be more merciful to others. 1181 00:41:27,105 --> 00:41:28,665 Yeah. It makes us wanna be more Mer like 1182 00:41:29,305 --> 00:41:34,285 reciprocity really is that idea of He's forgiven me, man. 1183 00:41:34,365 --> 00:41:36,205 I have to forgive other people. Like if he's that merciful 1184 00:41:36,205 --> 00:41:37,965 to me, I need to be more merciful to others or 1185 00:41:37,965 --> 00:41:39,325 - Forgive yourself as well. Yeah. 1186 00:41:39,385 --> 00:41:41,085 - But when people can't forgive themselves Yeah. 1187 00:41:41,585 --> 00:41:44,445 The next question I ask is, who do you need to forgive? 1188 00:41:44,945 --> 00:41:47,605 Mm-Hmm. Or if they struggle forgiving someone 1189 00:41:47,605 --> 00:41:49,125 else, that doesn't make sense. 1190 00:41:49,165 --> 00:41:50,165 I don't even know if I said that. Right. 1191 00:41:50,525 --> 00:41:52,165 A lot of times we will interact 1192 00:41:52,165 --> 00:41:54,005 with others the way we think God interacts with us. 1193 00:41:54,105 --> 00:41:55,245 Oh, okay. It's hard for me 1194 00:41:55,245 --> 00:41:56,605 to forgive someone else if I don't 1195 00:41:56,605 --> 00:41:57,725 believe that I can be forgiven. 1196 00:41:57,725 --> 00:41:58,725 Yeah. Yeah. Yes. You see what I'm, I'm 1197 00:41:58,725 --> 00:41:59,285 saying they're correlated. 1198 00:41:59,435 --> 00:42:02,365 Like if I struggled to forgive myself, well I'm probably 1199 00:42:02,365 --> 00:42:03,685 for struggling to forgive someone else 1200 00:42:03,825 --> 00:42:05,405 and I'm holding that grudge 1201 00:42:05,555 --> 00:42:07,565 because of how I think that God would forgive me. 1202 00:42:07,585 --> 00:42:09,125 Mm-Hmm. Does that make sense? Yes. 1203 00:42:09,125 --> 00:42:11,925 - Yes. Yeah. Anyway, that's helpful. So those two questions. 1204 00:42:11,925 --> 00:42:14,605 The who is that? Who, who's got and who are you? Yeah. 1205 00:42:14,795 --> 00:42:17,285 Like take, take put it in context of the Bishop's office. 1206 00:42:17,345 --> 00:42:18,925 Are you like using that as sort of a format 1207 00:42:19,025 --> 00:42:21,685 of the conversation you're having as someone comes in 1208 00:42:21,685 --> 00:42:23,205 to talk about repentance? 1209 00:42:23,385 --> 00:42:25,405 - So lemme tell you a story. This, so the foundation 1210 00:42:25,405 --> 00:42:28,485 of this is when I first got called into a, a Bishop Rick, 1211 00:42:28,755 --> 00:42:31,885 initially by state president randomly at the end of, 1212 00:42:32,135 --> 00:42:34,965 after they set me apart, he just goes up to this whiteboard 1213 00:42:34,965 --> 00:42:36,325 and he is like, Hey, how do you chop down a tree? 1214 00:42:36,545 --> 00:42:38,885 And I'm like, I don't know, we get an axe. 1215 00:42:38,905 --> 00:42:40,605 And he's like, but where do you start? 1216 00:42:40,945 --> 00:42:42,925 And I'm like, start at the base. And he's like, okay. Yeah. 1217 00:42:42,925 --> 00:42:44,165 That's the base. And he drew it, right? 1218 00:42:44,705 --> 00:42:47,045 And he's like, the base of the tree is the 1219 00:42:47,245 --> 00:42:48,365 understanding and the belief. 1220 00:42:48,705 --> 00:42:50,645 And he said, lemme tell you this quick little story. 1221 00:42:51,045 --> 00:42:52,365 A young woman came into my office 1222 00:42:52,365 --> 00:42:53,925 and the parents kind of scooted her in the office 1223 00:42:54,425 --> 00:42:55,685 and they're basically like, Hey, 1224 00:42:55,695 --> 00:42:57,205 she's been breaking the law of chastity. 1225 00:42:57,435 --> 00:42:59,085 Like, fix her. Right? Yeah. 1226 00:42:59,265 --> 00:43:00,685 But that, with, with so few words. 1227 00:43:00,905 --> 00:43:02,205 And he said, you know what I didn't do? 1228 00:43:02,675 --> 00:43:05,285 He's like, do you think that that young woman knows that 1229 00:43:05,285 --> 00:43:06,525 what the law of chastity is? 1230 00:43:06,705 --> 00:43:07,685 Do you think that she knows that 1231 00:43:07,685 --> 00:43:08,725 she shouldn't break the law of chastity? 1232 00:43:08,875 --> 00:43:11,525 He's like, I'm like, yeah. He's like, so he said, 1233 00:43:11,545 --> 00:43:13,205 the behavior is the branches. 1234 00:43:13,345 --> 00:43:15,485 The base of the tree is the understanding and belief. 1235 00:43:15,485 --> 00:43:17,165 Mm-Hmm. And he said, oftentimes 1236 00:43:17,195 --> 00:43:19,285 what we do is we chop at the branches, 1237 00:43:19,585 --> 00:43:20,605 we chop, we the behavior. 1238 00:43:20,705 --> 00:43:22,005 You know, you're not supposed to be doing this. 1239 00:43:22,425 --> 00:43:24,645 And so he said, I talked to her 1240 00:43:25,065 --> 00:43:28,365 and as I counseled with her, I found that her dad 1241 00:43:29,105 --> 00:43:30,365 was verbally abusive. 1242 00:43:31,025 --> 00:43:33,845 And basically he came to the point where he was discovered 1243 00:43:33,845 --> 00:43:35,085 that when she would sleep with her boyfriend, 1244 00:43:35,505 --> 00:43:36,725 she was hoping to find love. 1245 00:43:36,725 --> 00:43:37,845 Right? Yeah. That's what she really wanted. 1246 00:43:38,265 --> 00:43:40,765 And so I tell this story because I feel like the 1247 00:43:40,765 --> 00:43:43,165 understanding and belief as the core 1248 00:43:43,545 --> 00:43:45,085 and having conversations more about 1249 00:43:45,085 --> 00:43:48,605 that is usually the remedy that people need for many 1250 00:43:48,605 --> 00:43:49,645 of the things that they struggle with. 1251 00:43:50,065 --> 00:43:51,765 It usually the things that people are, 1252 00:43:52,265 --> 00:43:54,245 and even including myself, it's like 1253 00:43:54,865 --> 00:43:56,045 I'm forgetting who he is. 1254 00:43:56,665 --> 00:43:58,845 I'm forgetting the covenant that he made with me. 1255 00:43:58,915 --> 00:44:02,085 Like, who is he and who am I in relation to him? Yeah. 1256 00:44:02,505 --> 00:44:04,445 And so, and I like to read Moses chapter one 1257 00:44:04,445 --> 00:44:07,285 where I feel like a lot of those are highlighted. Yeah. 1258 00:44:07,385 --> 00:44:09,525 - So those questions take you to the base. 1259 00:44:09,795 --> 00:44:11,085 - They take you to the - Base so 1260 00:44:11,085 --> 00:44:13,125 that you can talk about the, the real solutions. Right. 1261 00:44:13,275 --> 00:44:14,365 - This ain't about that. 1262 00:44:14,555 --> 00:44:15,885 This thing you're doing ain't nothing about that. 1263 00:44:15,905 --> 00:44:17,125 You just don't understand who he is. 1264 00:44:17,125 --> 00:44:19,525 You don't know who you are. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? 1265 00:44:19,735 --> 00:44:23,325 Right. And if we're really being honest with ourselves, like 1266 00:44:23,665 --> 00:44:25,685 that's probably the majority of the challenges 1267 00:44:25,685 --> 00:44:26,925 that you see in the world are 1268 00:44:26,925 --> 00:44:28,285 because we either don't know who God is, 1269 00:44:28,625 --> 00:44:29,765 or we forget who God is. 1270 00:44:29,935 --> 00:44:32,695 Right. And that really gives us a foundation 1271 00:44:32,695 --> 00:44:34,455 of who we really are. Yeah. 1272 00:44:34,715 --> 00:44:37,055 - And there's this feeling of like, going to the branches, 1273 00:44:37,065 --> 00:44:38,655 let's, we gotta focus on the branches. 1274 00:44:38,655 --> 00:44:39,775 They gotta at least know where they're at. 1275 00:44:39,875 --> 00:44:41,455 And you know, let's make sure we do that. 1276 00:44:41,875 --> 00:44:45,335 And we sort of hurry past the doctrine of grace just 1277 00:44:45,455 --> 00:44:47,415 'cause we think, well, we don't want 'em to feel like this 1278 00:44:47,415 --> 00:44:49,855 is completely okay, they can just repent and whatever. 1279 00:44:49,995 --> 00:44:53,535 But it's experiencing grace that when I feel the love 1280 00:44:53,535 --> 00:44:55,215 of God, there's nothing more I want to do. 1281 00:44:55,215 --> 00:44:57,655 And turn to him and say, how do I become like you? 1282 00:44:58,075 --> 00:45:01,775 And he'll say, keep my covenants. Oh, okay. I'll do that. 1283 00:45:01,835 --> 00:45:04,335 Not because I feel like I should keep the covenants. 1284 00:45:04,495 --> 00:45:07,255 'cause I'm so overwhelmed with his nature, his character, 1285 00:45:07,925 --> 00:45:10,175 what he thinks of me, that there's nothing else I wanna do. 1286 00:45:10,265 --> 00:45:11,495 Right. That's at the base. 1287 00:45:12,115 --> 00:45:13,375 - We are always trying to put these in these 1288 00:45:13,515 --> 00:45:15,175 compartmentalize God. 1289 00:45:15,205 --> 00:45:17,535 Yeah. Like, I wanna get this attribute. Okay. 1290 00:45:18,055 --> 00:45:20,415 Patience, love, charity. No, he's all of them. Yeah. 1291 00:45:20,515 --> 00:45:22,615 And, and I had this bishop, he taught me this and it was, 1292 00:45:22,635 --> 00:45:24,615 and it was so important to me 1293 00:45:25,475 --> 00:45:27,495 and it changed my perspective from my own life. 1294 00:45:27,515 --> 00:45:29,655 And for others it was like, you don't have 1295 00:45:29,655 --> 00:45:31,055 to be perfect 'cause he already is. 1296 00:45:31,515 --> 00:45:35,175 But what we, what I can do is if I focus on having the Holy 1297 00:45:35,185 --> 00:45:39,175 Ghost, I can have him with me always, who is perfect. 1298 00:45:39,525 --> 00:45:40,695 Yeah. Does that make sense? 1299 00:45:40,835 --> 00:45:43,655 And so instead of just trying to be a perfect bishop 1300 00:45:43,755 --> 00:45:45,295 or trying to help other people be perfect, 1301 00:45:45,755 --> 00:45:48,695 I'm now focused on, well, when did you lose the Holy Ghost? 1302 00:45:48,915 --> 00:45:50,815 And now, now that's where you can start. Right. 1303 00:45:51,115 --> 00:45:52,575 So instead of trying to be perfect, 1304 00:45:53,285 --> 00:45:54,455 just where did you lose it? 1305 00:45:54,485 --> 00:45:56,455 Okay. Stop doing that. Mm-Hmm. , you know? 1306 00:45:56,455 --> 00:45:59,295 Mm-Hmm. . And the Holy Ghost is way 1307 00:45:59,295 --> 00:46:00,375 more powerful than we realize. 1308 00:46:00,605 --> 00:46:02,135 Yeah. You know? Yeah. 1309 00:46:02,595 --> 00:46:03,855 - That's awesome. Anything else 1310 00:46:03,995 --> 00:46:05,775 around the topic of repentance or 1311 00:46:06,515 --> 00:46:07,515 - We haven't touched on? 1312 00:46:07,515 --> 00:46:09,215 Um, a lot of things we avoid are the things that, 1313 00:46:09,605 --> 00:46:11,375 like when we think about scripture study, 1314 00:46:11,565 --> 00:46:12,775 what does the Book of Mormon do? 1315 00:46:12,845 --> 00:46:15,575 What does it outline over and over again? Repentance. Yeah. 1316 00:46:15,575 --> 00:46:18,175 Repentance. And so I find with repentance, 1317 00:46:18,255 --> 00:46:20,975 I feel if I connect that more, like 1318 00:46:21,555 --> 00:46:25,255 if I connect reading scriptures as a form of repentance. 1319 00:46:25,755 --> 00:46:28,175 Now wait, hear me out now. What is repentance? 1320 00:46:28,205 --> 00:46:31,455 It's turning to Christ. It's changing the way you see him. 1321 00:46:31,815 --> 00:46:32,975 I can't think of a better way 1322 00:46:33,075 --> 00:46:34,815 to see Christ differently than 1323 00:46:34,815 --> 00:46:35,935 reading your scriptures every day. 1324 00:46:36,195 --> 00:46:38,815 And so instead of inviting people to like the 1325 00:46:38,815 --> 00:46:41,255 what the iron rod is him. 1326 00:46:41,515 --> 00:46:43,895 Mm-Hmm. , you know, hold to the rod. 1327 00:46:43,895 --> 00:46:45,975 The iron rod is, was just strong and bright and true. 1328 00:46:46,525 --> 00:46:48,935 Well, one day I was reading and I was like, oh. 1329 00:46:49,015 --> 00:46:50,135 I was like, what is, what is iron? 1330 00:46:50,525 --> 00:46:52,735 Iron is basically the most magnetic material. 1331 00:46:53,205 --> 00:46:55,375 Like he wants to stick to us, you know, like he wants us 1332 00:46:55,375 --> 00:46:56,535 to be connected to him, you know, 1333 00:46:57,275 --> 00:47:01,735 but not just the book, it's him, it's his promise. 1334 00:47:02,235 --> 00:47:03,535 That's what gives us assurance. 1335 00:47:04,075 --> 00:47:06,615 And so when it comes to repentance, I'm saying 1336 00:47:07,125 --> 00:47:09,815 it's not like this straight line like, okay, 1337 00:47:10,075 --> 00:47:11,415 now I do this and now I do that. 1338 00:47:11,445 --> 00:47:15,415 It's like this, it's like constantly in motion all the time. 1339 00:47:15,645 --> 00:47:18,815 Yeah. And a lot of the things that we struggle with is 1340 00:47:18,815 --> 00:47:20,975 because there's something that we need to do 1341 00:47:21,205 --> 00:47:22,535 that he's asked us to do, 1342 00:47:22,965 --> 00:47:24,695 that we've promised that we would do. 1343 00:47:25,245 --> 00:47:27,015 That we didn't. That really didn't 1344 00:47:27,015 --> 00:47:28,095 go along with what you were saying. 1345 00:47:28,095 --> 00:47:29,565 But I'm trying to think of, um, 1346 00:47:29,955 --> 00:47:31,965 - Well, what I take from that is just like the, the, 1347 00:47:31,965 --> 00:47:33,765 the point of repentance isn't that it's a process. 1348 00:47:34,315 --> 00:47:36,165 It's a a turning to to Christ. 1349 00:47:36,265 --> 00:47:37,405 And that's why it's not an event. 1350 00:47:37,405 --> 00:47:38,405 - That's right. That's right. That's 1351 00:47:38,405 --> 00:47:39,165 - Right. It's a lifestyle. 1352 00:47:39,635 --> 00:47:42,125 - Yeah. What does he say in the Vine gift of repentance? 1353 00:47:42,385 --> 00:47:44,165 Uh, elder Anderson's like, I'm repent. 1354 00:47:44,165 --> 00:47:45,205 I'm not repenting from the sin. 1355 00:47:45,205 --> 00:47:47,725 I'm repenting from sinning. Right, 1356 00:47:48,095 --> 00:47:49,095 - Right. 1357 00:47:49,095 --> 00:47:50,645 Yeah. From the natural man. Yeah. 1358 00:47:50,715 --> 00:47:53,285 - Yeah. It doesn't work when I try to do it by myself. 1359 00:47:53,705 --> 00:47:55,845 But this is a story that goes along with this 1360 00:47:55,845 --> 00:47:58,125 that I think could help other leaders is when I first 1361 00:47:58,125 --> 00:48:00,165 started, like, regarding repentance, 1362 00:48:00,415 --> 00:48:03,325 elder Gong was conducting a meeting in, 1363 00:48:03,465 --> 00:48:04,685 um, it was over Zoom. 1364 00:48:05,245 --> 00:48:06,485 'cause he had an area meeting here 1365 00:48:06,585 --> 00:48:07,645 in our, in our local area. 1366 00:48:08,145 --> 00:48:10,045 And, um, it was right when I got called 1367 00:48:10,065 --> 00:48:12,285 and my life was insane and everything was going crazy. 1368 00:48:12,385 --> 00:48:14,245 And I, they were like, Hey, submit your questions. 1369 00:48:14,245 --> 00:48:15,845 And I was like, it was so insane. 1370 00:48:15,845 --> 00:48:18,045 I didn't even submit a question . And so 1371 00:48:18,045 --> 00:48:19,045 - There's so much to ask. 1372 00:48:19,045 --> 00:48:20,365 I'm not gonna ask anything. Well, yeah. 1373 00:48:20,565 --> 00:48:22,525 - I was like, oh my gosh. And I'm like, showing up here 1374 00:48:22,525 --> 00:48:25,285 and going there, you know, and I was like, heavenly father, 1375 00:48:25,355 --> 00:48:27,405 like, I didn't ask this question, but I just need help. 1376 00:48:27,445 --> 00:48:29,605 I don't like, how do I carry this burden? 1377 00:48:29,875 --> 00:48:30,805 Like, how do, like, and you 1378 00:48:30,805 --> 00:48:31,805 could say maybe it was a balance. 1379 00:48:32,265 --> 00:48:34,645 And what was interesting is he addressed that question. 1380 00:48:34,665 --> 00:48:36,245 He, that was the first question he addressed. 1381 00:48:36,245 --> 00:48:37,245 And you know what his answer was? 1382 00:48:37,675 --> 00:48:39,885 What he said, you need to repent. 1383 00:48:40,185 --> 00:48:44,445 And I was like, what , what is he talking about? 1384 00:48:45,205 --> 00:48:46,285 I mean, I'm not saying I'm perfect, 1385 00:48:46,865 --> 00:48:49,405 but I had that perspective of like, I need to go talk 1386 00:48:49,405 --> 00:48:52,245 to him about it or talk like, and I was like, repent. 1387 00:48:52,305 --> 00:48:53,765 And I'm talking, I couldn't sleep over this. 1388 00:48:53,765 --> 00:48:55,525 Like, I mean, I mean, I, I slept, but you know what I mean? 1389 00:48:55,525 --> 00:48:57,085 I was like contemplating this a lot. 1390 00:48:57,585 --> 00:48:58,845 And then I got to the point where I was like, 1391 00:48:59,465 --> 00:49:01,485 and the more I think about this, he's saying, no, you need 1392 00:49:01,685 --> 00:49:05,125 to like, turn to him the way the burden is carried 1393 00:49:05,545 --> 00:49:06,845 as a bishop or as a leader. 1394 00:49:07,365 --> 00:49:08,925 I like, I had this epiphany a couple, 1395 00:49:08,925 --> 00:49:10,605 couple weeks ago is like, 1396 00:49:10,835 --> 00:49:13,125 because you always say like, how do I give it to him? 1397 00:49:13,425 --> 00:49:14,685 And I think the way you give it 1398 00:49:14,685 --> 00:49:17,165 to him is you actually believe that when he told you 1399 00:49:17,165 --> 00:49:18,245 that he would take it, that 1400 00:49:18,245 --> 00:49:19,645 you actually believe he'll take it. 1401 00:49:19,755 --> 00:49:22,965 Yeah. What does that look like? You keep moving. 1402 00:49:23,075 --> 00:49:25,085 Like you actually believe him. Right. 1403 00:49:25,585 --> 00:49:27,685 You keep on going forward. 1404 00:49:27,795 --> 00:49:29,525 Like you actually trust him. Right. 1405 00:49:29,865 --> 00:49:31,525 - I'm thinking of Steven Robinson that we, 1406 00:49:31,625 --> 00:49:33,005 we don't believe in Christ. 1407 00:49:33,145 --> 00:49:34,645 We believe him. That's right. 1408 00:49:34,835 --> 00:49:36,965 From things he tells that if he takes our burdens, 1409 00:49:37,315 --> 00:49:39,565 then actually give it the burden to him. Right. 1410 00:49:39,585 --> 00:49:40,765 - But this, but that's the question. 1411 00:49:40,825 --> 00:49:42,085 How do you give it to him? Yeah. Yeah. 1412 00:49:42,145 --> 00:49:46,325 You give it to him by living like you actually trust it. 1413 00:49:46,395 --> 00:49:48,645 Yeah. Well, like what does that mean? Right. 1414 00:49:48,875 --> 00:49:51,485 Well, I'm gonna stop being all paralyzed, 1415 00:49:51,705 --> 00:49:53,245 acting like a bird's gonna come down 1416 00:49:53,745 --> 00:49:55,405 and sit on my shoulder and tell me what to do. 1417 00:49:56,025 --> 00:49:58,405 I'm gonna keep on going. I'm gonna keep going. 1418 00:49:58,685 --> 00:50:00,365 'cause I trust that it's gonna work. 1419 00:50:00,715 --> 00:50:02,165 Like I, I really trust him. 1420 00:50:02,305 --> 00:50:04,765 And I think like people say there's a faith crisis, 1421 00:50:04,985 --> 00:50:06,525 I'm like, no, I, maybe there is. 1422 00:50:06,525 --> 00:50:09,605 And not to degrade it, but it's a hope crisis too. Mm-Hmm. 1423 00:50:09,645 --> 00:50:12,565 because the promises here that he gives us. 1424 00:50:13,345 --> 00:50:15,325 And then on the other end you have 1425 00:50:15,705 --> 00:50:16,885 the realization of the promise. 1426 00:50:16,905 --> 00:50:19,685 That's not today. That middle section is the hope. 1427 00:50:20,185 --> 00:50:22,405 And that's why that's what gives us the strength 1428 00:50:22,545 --> 00:50:25,645 to keep going, is you actually hope for it. 1429 00:50:25,645 --> 00:50:27,565 Like, I really trust the promise that he says, 1430 00:50:27,565 --> 00:50:29,165 even though it's not happening right now. Anyway. 1431 00:50:29,165 --> 00:50:31,565 - Yeah. Yeah. I, and I, going back to that story with, uh, 1432 00:50:31,565 --> 00:50:33,845 elder Nar of, of sort of that epiphany you had, 1433 00:50:34,185 --> 00:50:36,525 we often frame repentance as something 1434 00:50:37,065 --> 00:50:38,245 you did something wrong. 1435 00:50:38,625 --> 00:50:41,685 And you need to repent of that and you know, correct it. 1436 00:50:41,875 --> 00:50:43,885 When in reality we need to repent every day. 1437 00:50:43,885 --> 00:50:46,165 And that's what, you know, if Elder Nar says that 1438 00:50:46,165 --> 00:50:48,405 to a room full of bishops, it's sort of like these are sort 1439 00:50:48,405 --> 00:50:50,525 of the elite of they've, they've figured out, 1440 00:50:50,525 --> 00:50:52,285 generally speaking not perfect, but, 1441 00:50:52,585 --> 00:50:54,765 but to then say like, oh yeah, I can, 1442 00:50:55,165 --> 00:50:56,685 I can stop turning towards Christ 1443 00:50:56,845 --> 00:50:57,925 'cause I get caught up in the meetings 1444 00:50:57,925 --> 00:50:59,205 and the schedules and this and that. 1445 00:50:59,205 --> 00:51:01,325 Like, we need to create space to again, turn 1446 00:51:01,325 --> 00:51:04,205 to him even when we're doing all the things 1447 00:51:04,625 --> 00:51:06,405 on paper that make sense. Oh, and 1448 00:51:06,405 --> 00:51:08,285 - Elder Bednar recently on social media, 1449 00:51:08,495 --> 00:51:10,605 elder Gong was the one who told me Elder Bednar. 1450 00:51:10,605 --> 00:51:11,685 - Oh, it was Elder Gong. Okay. - Yeah. Yeah. 1451 00:51:11,685 --> 00:51:13,365 Well, I'm not, well I'm not trying to be like, well, 1452 00:51:13,425 --> 00:51:14,685 let lemme correct you . 1453 00:51:14,685 --> 00:51:16,405 I'm not, that's not what I'm trying to say. Okay. Okay. 1454 00:51:16,625 --> 00:51:18,325 I'm just saying to your point, 1455 00:51:18,335 --> 00:51:21,005 elder Bednar recently has been talking a lot about 1456 00:51:21,005 --> 00:51:22,485 repentance and president. 1457 00:51:23,125 --> 00:51:26,125 Like, and was it 2019? He is like, you need to repent. 1458 00:51:26,565 --> 00:51:29,365 I need to repent. And he said every single day, 1459 00:51:29,785 --> 00:51:31,205 and I can't think of a better way 1460 00:51:31,705 --> 00:51:35,125 to change the way I see God than to communicate with him, 1461 00:51:35,425 --> 00:51:38,165 to read his words because of a promise that he made. 1462 00:51:38,475 --> 00:51:40,085 Like, this is not just some random thing. 1463 00:51:40,085 --> 00:51:42,925 This is a real covenant. This is a real elder nar. 1464 00:51:43,305 --> 00:51:44,925 He calls it a covenant connection, 1465 00:51:45,415 --> 00:51:47,405 which I feel like is stronger than a relationship. 1466 00:51:47,985 --> 00:51:50,125 You can count on it, you know? Yeah. Anyway. 1467 00:51:50,395 --> 00:51:51,965 - Awesome. What else? 1468 00:51:52,225 --> 00:51:54,005 Any, any other point, principle as far 1469 00:51:54,005 --> 00:51:55,805 as in your leadership experience would be worth mentioning 1470 00:51:55,825 --> 00:51:57,085 or we covered all? 1471 00:51:57,605 --> 00:51:58,925 - I think we covered most of it, man. 1472 00:51:58,965 --> 00:52:01,045 I think that this is something I've thought of lately 1473 00:52:01,145 --> 00:52:02,405 and I don't wanna speculate. 1474 00:52:02,885 --> 00:52:03,765 'cause you know, we're in the last 1475 00:52:03,765 --> 00:52:05,085 days, whatever that means. 1476 00:52:05,355 --> 00:52:08,005 Okay. And everybody's waiting for the bad to get bad. 1477 00:52:08,425 --> 00:52:11,605 You know, everybody's waiting for, oh, well that's a sign 1478 00:52:11,605 --> 00:52:13,605 of the time when things get really terrible. 1479 00:52:13,825 --> 00:52:16,245 That's when Jesus will come. I believe he's waiting for us. 1480 00:52:16,845 --> 00:52:19,805 Hmm. I believe that Jesus Christ could come anytime, 1481 00:52:20,225 --> 00:52:21,485 but he's waiting for a place. 1482 00:52:22,075 --> 00:52:24,525 He's waiting for us. And that 1483 00:52:24,835 --> 00:52:26,725 what I'm learning is the foundation 1484 00:52:26,725 --> 00:52:28,405 of the home is where that happens. 1485 00:52:29,025 --> 00:52:31,725 And I feel like before, like when Jesus came 1486 00:52:31,725 --> 00:52:32,685 to the knee fights, he could have 1487 00:52:32,685 --> 00:52:33,605 blessed them all at the same time. 1488 00:52:34,405 --> 00:52:35,645 Everyone's blessed, you know? Like Yeah. 1489 00:52:35,705 --> 00:52:38,605 But he did it one by one, one person at a time. 1490 00:52:39,115 --> 00:52:40,525 Like what would the ward be like? 1491 00:52:40,875 --> 00:52:45,725 What would the stake be like if we cared as much about 1492 00:52:46,425 --> 00:52:48,885 our like meeting and having meetings with our families, 1493 00:52:49,055 --> 00:52:51,925 counseling and counseling with our families showing up, 1494 00:52:52,425 --> 00:52:53,885 you know, doing this and that. 1495 00:52:54,305 --> 00:52:55,685 You know, developing the youth, 1496 00:52:55,735 --> 00:52:58,645 developing your youth in your home, 1497 00:52:59,365 --> 00:53:00,725 ministering in your home, 1498 00:53:01,065 --> 00:53:02,845 that's when Jesus will come back. Hmm. 1499 00:53:03,105 --> 00:53:04,565 - That's powerful. You're good at this. 1500 00:53:04,565 --> 00:53:06,005 Have you ever thought about starting a podcast? 1501 00:53:06,405 --> 00:53:07,685 I dunno. I dunno. 1502 00:53:07,955 --> 00:53:09,605 - When I do, I'd listen. I know, 1503 00:53:09,605 --> 00:53:10,605 - Right. 1504 00:53:10,605 --> 00:53:11,485 But well give 'em the in info. 1505 00:53:11,485 --> 00:53:13,885 I, people want to find all this where they, they go 1506 00:53:14,005 --> 00:53:15,005 to see more of the studio. 1507 00:53:15,425 --> 00:53:16,885 - Oh, let's get real with Steven Jones. 1508 00:53:17,035 --> 00:53:18,805 - Primarily on YouTube. Primarily 1509 00:53:18,805 --> 00:53:21,565 - On YouTube, but it's on everywhere you can listen. Yeah. 1510 00:53:21,875 --> 00:53:22,965 - It's on podcast feeds. 1511 00:53:22,965 --> 00:53:24,925 - Podcast feeds and everything. Yep. Cool. 1512 00:53:25,705 --> 00:53:27,325 - Any other projects or things that you're working on 1513 00:53:27,325 --> 00:53:28,525 that work do with mentioning? 1514 00:53:29,025 --> 00:53:30,085 Uh, how come we don't have a 1515 00:53:30,085 --> 00:53:31,765 Stephen Jones book of some type? Huh? 1516 00:53:32,105 --> 00:53:33,925 - Oh man, I don't know. There's man. 1517 00:53:34,405 --> 00:53:36,085 - I don't, I know that's very 1980s, 1518 00:53:36,185 --> 00:53:37,445 but, uh, you know, , 1519 00:53:37,965 --> 00:53:38,965 - I don't know, man. 1520 00:53:38,965 --> 00:53:41,565 I, I think let's get real. Stephen Jones. Okay. Awesome. 1521 00:53:41,665 --> 00:53:44,365 But, uh, scripture central.org is also a good place too, 1522 00:53:44,595 --> 00:53:47,525 currently working, uh, here at Scripture Central. 1523 00:53:47,525 --> 00:53:49,165 - Yeah. This studio is in the offices of 1524 00:53:49,325 --> 00:53:50,325 - Scripture Central. 1525 00:53:50,325 --> 00:53:50,605 This, this, this studio is in the offices 1526 00:53:50,625 --> 00:53:51,405 of Scripture Central. 1527 00:53:51,555 --> 00:53:54,325 There's a lot of resources, especially for leaders. Yeah. 1528 00:53:54,505 --> 00:53:56,645 Um, with anything scripture related. 1529 00:53:56,925 --> 00:53:58,765 Scripture Plus is another app that they have 1530 00:53:58,795 --> 00:54:00,445 that I think is very, would be very, very helpful. 1531 00:54:01,015 --> 00:54:03,445 Again, the scriptures are Jesus Christ. Right. 1532 00:54:03,445 --> 00:54:05,085 If you wanna come closer to him, come through his words 1533 00:54:05,085 --> 00:54:06,325 and they, that's what they do. 1534 00:54:06,325 --> 00:54:08,245 That's what we do. Awesome. So, yeah. All 1535 00:54:08,245 --> 00:54:09,245 - Right. 1536 00:54:09,245 --> 00:54:10,645 Last question I have for you is, as you reflect on your time 1537 00:54:10,705 --> 00:54:13,805 as a leader, how has being a leader helped you become a 1538 00:54:13,805 --> 00:54:15,165 better follower of Jesus Christ? 1539 00:54:15,905 --> 00:54:17,685 - Ah, I think that it's that idea of delegation. 1540 00:54:17,685 --> 00:54:21,405 Again, God has invited me to follow him. 1541 00:54:22,185 --> 00:54:24,125 And it's almost like this paradox, 1542 00:54:24,145 --> 00:54:26,965 or I don't even be like a, as I follow him, 1543 00:54:27,545 --> 00:54:29,285 that's the best way that I could ever lead. 1544 00:54:29,385 --> 00:54:31,805 And it's the flipped opposite of what the world would say. 1545 00:54:32,435 --> 00:54:34,845 It's the way that I think outward. 1546 00:54:35,025 --> 00:54:37,325 My worst days, whenever I flip it 1547 00:54:37,325 --> 00:54:38,805 and start serving, you think I need 1548 00:54:38,805 --> 00:54:40,485 to be like somebody needs to help me. 1549 00:54:40,545 --> 00:54:43,005 But when I help others, that's whenever it's the best days. 1550 00:54:43,385 --> 00:54:45,885 And I think that that's why God has so much joy, you know, 1551 00:54:45,945 --> 00:54:47,445 is because that's what he does 24 1552 00:54:47,445 --> 00:54:48,525 hours a day, seven days a week. 1553 00:54:48,525 --> 00:54:52,645 And so as I follow him, that's the, which is to serve is 1554 00:54:52,645 --> 00:54:53,645 what I think is the essence and 1555 00:54:53,645 --> 00:54:54,565 the epitome of what you're saying. 1556 00:54:54,865 --> 00:54:58,165 That's whenever I feel like I can lead the best is 1557 00:54:58,325 --> 00:55:01,485 whenever I'm, whenever I condescend, I'm not God. 1558 00:55:01,745 --> 00:55:05,205 But I'm saying when I come to people's level like he did, 1559 00:55:05,505 --> 00:55:07,245 that's whenever I feel like I can 1560 00:55:07,245 --> 00:55:08,285 do both of those at the same time. 1561 00:55:15,955 --> 00:55:18,765 - That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints podcast. 1562 00:55:18,995 --> 00:55:20,565 We'd love to hear from you about your 1563 00:55:20,765 --> 00:55:21,805 questions or thoughts or comments. 1564 00:55:21,905 --> 00:55:24,365 You can either leave a comment on the, uh, post related 1565 00:55:24,505 --> 00:55:27,125 to this episode@leadingsaints.org 1566 00:55:27,125 --> 00:55:29,085 or go to leading saints.org/contact 1567 00:55:29,505 --> 00:55:31,245 and send us your perspective or questions. 1568 00:55:31,465 --> 00:55:32,565 If there's other episodes 1569 00:55:32,565 --> 00:55:35,125 or topics you'd like to hear on the Leading Saints podcast, 1570 00:55:35,305 --> 00:55:37,085 go to leading saints.org/contact 1571 00:55:37,345 --> 00:55:39,125 and share with us the information there. 1572 00:55:39,465 --> 00:55:41,365 And we would love for you to share this 1573 00:55:41,365 --> 00:55:43,725 with any individual you think this would apply to, 1574 00:55:43,725 --> 00:55:45,765 especially maybe individuals in your ward council 1575 00:55:45,905 --> 00:55:47,525 or other leaders that you may know 1576 00:55:47,665 --> 00:55:49,205 who would really appreciate the 1577 00:55:49,205 --> 00:55:50,325 perspectives that we discussed. 1578 00:55:51,125 --> 00:55:53,645 Remember, go to leading saints.org/fourteen 1579 00:55:53,945 --> 00:55:55,725 to hear the Packard family's experience 1580 00:55:55,725 --> 00:55:57,365 of when loved ones leave the church. 1581 00:56:07,305 --> 00:56:10,445 - It came as a result of the position of leadership, 1582 00:56:10,445 --> 00:56:14,445 which was imposed upon us by the God of Heaven, 1583 00:56:14,585 --> 00:56:17,965 who brought forth a restoration of the gospel 1584 00:56:18,145 --> 00:56:19,485 of Jesus Christ. 1585 00:56:20,145 --> 00:56:23,765 And when the Declaration was made concerning the own 1586 00:56:23,865 --> 00:56:24,965 and only true 1587 00:56:24,965 --> 00:56:27,525 and living church upon the face of the earth, 1588 00:56:28,305 --> 00:56:31,725 we were immediately put in a position of loneliness. 1589 00:56:31,945 --> 00:56:33,645 The loneliness of leadership 1590 00:56:34,155 --> 00:56:36,925 from which we cannot shrink nor run away. 1591 00:56:37,825 --> 00:56:41,845 And to which we must face up with boldness and courage 1592 00:56:42,545 --> 00:56:43,165 and ability.