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Welcome to Lawyer Business Advantage. This podcast is

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dedicated to helping attorneys earn more money,

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get better clients, and spend more time with

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family.

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I'm your host, Alej

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Hajnik, founder of Law Firm Success Group.

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Smart business guidance for small law firms begins

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in

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3, 2,

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1. And it's my pleasure to welcome back

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to Lawyer Business Advantage, Sajah Raouf, owner of

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Raouf Law. Sajah, welcome back. Thank you. We

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were just chatting about networking for introverts. And

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today, we're gonna jump into a topic that

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I'm really, really excited to get your take

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on, which is social media

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for introverts. And I know people say introverts

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can dominate social media and all of that,

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but as an introvert myself, I don't like

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social media one bit. I find it exhausting

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and a little scary.

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But you have done a fantastic job of

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leveraging social media, specifically LinkedIn. First off, just

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wanna check-in with you and make sure that

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that is indeed the social platform of choice

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for you or there others that you're looking

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into as well? Absolutely. So far, it's primarily

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LinkedIn. And why did you choose to focus

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on LinkedIn?

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Because

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I feel it

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gives you a

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business focused

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connection with

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others,

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other attorneys, coaches,

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all kinds of advisers.

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And

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it's,

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to be memorable on LinkedIn.

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You speak about what you do in a

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way that

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resonates with people outside your area of expertise.

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So it really brings out,

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creativity

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and

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personalized style

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without being too,

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personal.

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Yeah. I love that too about it. And

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It's the only social media platform I know

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that does a really good job of doing

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that, and

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it's really stood the test of time compared

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to a lot of others.

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So,

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you know, now when you do a post

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on LinkedIn, let's talk about where you are

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now, and then we can talk about how

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you got there because there's a lot of

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cool stuff to unpack.

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When you do a post on LinkedIn now,

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what are the typical results you see when

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you put it out there?

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I tend to get

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a lot of engagement on my LinkedIn posts.

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Of course, it's

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sometimes

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it's not I mean, a 100% every single

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post. But Right. Lot of posts that I

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that I put up, I

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don't necessarily

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expect engagement on,

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but they get a lot of reactions.

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And I

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it's

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good to see that there is

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interest in immigration law out there

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and that people are engaging.

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And

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for the most part,

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there's respectful

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feedback.

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So it's

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fulfilling to be able to talk about people's

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journeys to be such a big part of

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their,

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lives

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in a way

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that appeals to a wide leadership.

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Yeah. And, can you show with us,

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some numbers that you look at to give

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you a sense of how well your post

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are performing?

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Some things,

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pick up thousands of

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posts within

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24 to 48 hours.

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I was,

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particularly surprised when I posted,

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about 12 or 14 months ago

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about

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my own journey

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and how my family and I came to

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immigrate to the US.

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And

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I started the post with the sentence.

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The one thing that all Iraqis

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can agree on, no matter their

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religion or ethnicity

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is that the last few decades have been

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hell.

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And

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I question whether I should use that word

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in the opening sentence,

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on a professional

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social media platform,

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and I decided

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there is no way to sugarcoat it. That

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is how

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my story needs to be told. That does

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need to be

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the exact wording of the first

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sentence.

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My degrees and my experience are on my

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the about page on my website.

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But in speaking about my why,

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the gravity of

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my family's

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journey and the circumstances that compelled them to

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make the US their home, given that

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Iraq has been through war after war after

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war since I was born,

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needs an unusually

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vulnerable and authentic

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opening line.

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And

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it's been a while since I looked, but

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it gathered thousands of reactions,

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over in triple digit comments.

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Wow. That is really something.

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And this is really interesting because

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you have a very powerful personal story. You

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share that with me.

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And that personal story ties directly

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directly into the practice of immigration.

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And there's a lot of attorneys who might

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be in your situation who might say, well,

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I don't really feel comfortable, you know, sharing

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my personal story

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or maybe even worse using my personal story

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to grow my law firm. I mean, I

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might feel like a sellout or that I'm

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cheapening myself or something like that.

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How did you kind of approach leveraging your

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personal story to

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gain that kind of visibility on LinkedIn?

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I

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talked about how

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when I was 13,

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and it was clear that

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my family and I were never returning to

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Iraq.

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And my dad started to look at immigrating

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to the US,

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and I talk about how I helped him

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put our green card application together.

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Over the course of,

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a year.

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He qualified for what's called alien of extraordinary

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ability, and

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I've

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interviewed him on

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the entire process, and I posted on my

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LinkedIn.

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And I've had clients reach out,

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and say they

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contacted me because of my interview with my

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dad. So

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and this is a common theme among immigration

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attorneys. There are quite a few immigration lawyers

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who also

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chose this particular career,

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having been through that journey themselves.

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And it's no different than, say,

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a

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family lawyer who arrived at their choice of

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career because they went through a difficult divorce,

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and they wanted to they felt it was

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empowering to choose that career

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having gone through the process themselves or personal

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injury or what have you.

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I think those kind of stories

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make us,

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relatable,

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and,

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they,

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I don't think they,

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the the concerns that we may have about

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we're undermining ourselves

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if we

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share that side of us, I don't think

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there's

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validity to that.

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Yeah. Quite the contrary as a, you know,

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as a non attorney

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bringing looking at attorneys through that lens,

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man, we have all sorts of wonky stereotypes

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about attorneys, and most of them are negative.

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Right? The attorney that just wants nothing but

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money, the attorney that, you know, just gives

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advice in bad faith, like, it just goes

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on and on and on. And, you know,

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most of that stuff is completely, completely false.

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But that's what we get exposed to. And

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when me as a non attorney get to

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hear that, oh, my gosh, this attorney actually

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has a personal

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reason for practicing law. They're not just in

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it for the money. They're not just in

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it to be in a courtroom. Like, they're

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really genuinely in it to help. And here's

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the proof.

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That just makes me have so much more

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faith in that person.

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And so I'm, you know, I'm not surprised.

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And did you have any qualms or concerns

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about sharing that personal side?

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I I was so when I wrote it,

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I felt so compelling, and it felt so

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exhausting to put on paper. And I felt

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so vulnerable

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that I decided to

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host it without running it by

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anyone, yourself included.

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I told you about it after the fact

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because

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I didn't want

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the

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possibility

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of

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changing my mind. Like, I there is something

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very strong about it that I decided to

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just

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go ahead and hit post. And it wasn't

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even at an optimal time as far as

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the LinkedIn algorithm is concerned. I just put

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it there before I changed my mind and

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was stunned at the reaction.

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And when I went back and read that

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and watched the videos as you subsequently posted,

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the reactions are well merited because it's really

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outstanding stuff. It's from the heart. It's very

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courageous. It's

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It's compelling, it's very compelling.

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So, Donning the introvert hat here for a

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moment, how would you say, posting on LinkedIn

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compares with other business development things that you

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do for

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as an introvert, like compared to networking, how

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easy or difficult is it or different is

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it for social media?

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So

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like networking, it involves

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being vulnerable,

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feeling exposed.

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But also like networking,

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a giving mentality

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is everything. So when you

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engage

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other people's posts and when you comment and

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like and share and

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come with the mindset of giving before you

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receive,

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I found that useful in

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LinkedIn as in with networking.

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And then on LinkedIn, it seems like you've

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been actually getting more personal on LinkedIn

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than you were maybe you would in a

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typical networking type of setting. Can you elaborate

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on that or comment on that?

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I realized that the things that I thought

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were hindrances

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are actually

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points of meaningful connection with other people. So

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talking about introversion,

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talking about my personal,

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immigration journey, talking about my type 1 diabetes,

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talking about things that I used to think

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were limitations

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I had thought would undermine the way I

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00:10:01,855 --> 00:10:02,514
come off,

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actually served to

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foster deeper

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connections with other people.

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That's really something that I hope, whether you're

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introverted or not, just all the attorney entrepreneurs

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that are listening

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really take note of that because being your

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authentic self,

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00:10:17,965 --> 00:10:20,205
there's a lot of power in that. There

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00:10:20,205 --> 00:10:22,605
still is despite everything. You know, that term

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00:10:22,605 --> 00:10:24,740
came into vogue, what, 5, 10 years ago,

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00:10:24,740 --> 00:10:27,139
something like that. But it has a lot

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00:10:27,139 --> 00:10:28,660
of power. And the reason it's part of

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00:10:28,660 --> 00:10:31,220
the conversation is because so few people do

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00:10:31,220 --> 00:10:33,404
it even to this day. And you you

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00:10:33,404 --> 00:10:34,144
do, Sasha,

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and the results

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results speak for themselves. And speaking of results,

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one thing we were talking about the other

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day about a LinkedIn post, we're trying to

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figure out, you know, what you should post

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about. But one of the things you mentioned

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to me was that

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your posts that are focused on immigration

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00:10:50,534 --> 00:10:52,134
tend to get a lot more attention than

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your posts that are focused on, you know,

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00:10:54,134 --> 00:10:56,695
Sajah the networking guru or Sajah the public

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00:10:56,695 --> 00:10:58,215
speaker or, you know, whatever it happens to

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be. Can you elaborate a little bit on

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how that professional thought leadership

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has really driven your posts?

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I think immigration

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being the hot topic that it is, whether

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we're doing the administration that is welcoming to

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immigrants or not,

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00:11:15,839 --> 00:11:17,039
It's at the top of a lot of

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people's minds,

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regardless of which

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sub area within immigration, be it business, immigration,

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family immigration, asylum,

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00:11:25,245 --> 00:11:27,105
or what have you. So

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it's,

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top of mind and it's relevant.

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00:11:30,845 --> 00:11:31,345
So

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things that I post that

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00:11:34,330 --> 00:11:35,070
may seem

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00:11:35,930 --> 00:11:38,889
mundane to immigration attorneys actually end up generating

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00:11:38,889 --> 00:11:41,450
a lot of interest just because it is

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00:11:41,995 --> 00:11:43,595
people are constantly thinking about it. It's a

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00:11:43,595 --> 00:11:44,254
top issue.

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This is one of the really cool things

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00:11:46,634 --> 00:11:49,355
about being a lawyer that I absolutely love.

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00:11:49,355 --> 00:11:50,875
I'm not a lawyer, but all my clients

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00:11:50,875 --> 00:11:53,429
are. And we talk about what ideas can

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00:11:53,429 --> 00:11:54,790
we what can we write about, or what

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00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:56,549
can we post on LinkedIn, or what have

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00:11:56,549 --> 00:11:58,950
you. There's so many great stories just by

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00:11:58,950 --> 00:12:00,804
looking at your desk. I mean, there's a

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00:12:00,804 --> 00:12:01,625
reason why

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00:12:02,245 --> 00:12:05,365
there are TV series and plays and movies

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00:12:05,365 --> 00:12:07,445
made about the law because it's dramatic and

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00:12:07,445 --> 00:12:08,585
it's really interesting,

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00:12:09,139 --> 00:12:10,980
grabs people. So, you know, if you're a

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corporate attorney or you're a trusted estate's attorney

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00:12:13,220 --> 00:12:15,399
or a family law attorney, personal injury,

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00:12:15,779 --> 00:12:18,514
immigration, you name it, there are really interesting

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00:12:18,514 --> 00:12:20,835
stories that you're involved with that people would

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00:12:20,835 --> 00:12:22,595
love to hear about. To your point, Sajah,

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00:12:22,595 --> 00:12:24,615
writing about that stuff on LinkedIn

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00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:26,799
There's a great way to do it because

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00:12:26,799 --> 00:12:29,200
that's where you're communicating with other professionals and

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00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,440
you can LinkedIn is set up to showcase

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00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,784
your expertise as a professional. Mhmm. That's what

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00:12:33,784 --> 00:12:35,465
it's designed for, and and that's what you're

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00:12:35,465 --> 00:12:38,264
doing. What advice would you give to other

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00:12:38,264 --> 00:12:40,105
introverts who are looking to get started with

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00:12:40,105 --> 00:12:40,845
social media?

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00:12:41,309 --> 00:12:41,970
Think about the

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00:12:43,870 --> 00:12:45,090
value that you're delivering.

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Prioritize that.

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00:12:47,389 --> 00:12:48,929
Make that your main focus.

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00:12:49,404 --> 00:12:50,144
And that

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00:12:50,764 --> 00:12:53,164
will take care of caution consciousness you may

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00:12:53,164 --> 00:12:56,704
be feeling about broadcasting yourself. It's great advice.

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00:12:56,959 --> 00:12:59,279
And who should they be writing to? What's

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00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:02,079
the target audience? Is it other attorneys, or

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00:13:02,079 --> 00:13:04,319
is it potential clients, or is it somebody

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00:13:04,319 --> 00:13:04,819
else?

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00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:05,779
I

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00:13:06,884 --> 00:13:07,045
address

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00:13:07,845 --> 00:13:09,524
or it feels at least that my posts

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00:13:09,524 --> 00:13:13,125
have got engagement from both referral partners as

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00:13:13,125 --> 00:13:13,785
well as

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00:13:14,485 --> 00:13:15,465
potential clients.

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00:13:15,889 --> 00:13:16,389
So

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00:13:16,929 --> 00:13:18,769
I don't necessarily have a formula for what

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00:13:18,769 --> 00:13:21,089
percentage I do for each audience, but I

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00:13:21,089 --> 00:13:21,589
just

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00:13:22,289 --> 00:13:23,110
will write

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00:13:23,634 --> 00:13:24,294
a post.

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00:13:24,754 --> 00:13:27,335
Last week, for example, I wrote on

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00:13:27,955 --> 00:13:28,855
what does

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00:13:29,394 --> 00:13:31,470
one slash four mean as far as the

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00:13:31,470 --> 00:13:33,549
date. Is it January 4th? Is it,

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00:13:34,029 --> 00:13:34,850
April 1st?

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00:13:35,549 --> 00:13:38,110
And that could be relevant to both an

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00:13:38,110 --> 00:13:38,610
immigrant

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00:13:38,990 --> 00:13:39,490
or

401
00:13:40,035 --> 00:13:43,555
to an adviser who works with them. Right.

402
00:13:43,555 --> 00:13:45,955
But the group you're not writing to is

403
00:13:45,955 --> 00:13:47,875
you're not writing to other attorneys or other

404
00:13:47,875 --> 00:13:49,820
immigration attorneys. Your posts don't have a lot

405
00:13:49,820 --> 00:13:51,120
of legal

406
00:13:51,580 --> 00:13:53,200
terminology or jargon.

407
00:13:53,659 --> 00:13:55,980
Correct. So far, no. I'm not primarily wiping

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00:13:55,980 --> 00:13:57,894
to other immigration lawyers. That's something for us

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00:13:57,894 --> 00:13:59,975
to take to the bank. And, have you

410
00:13:59,975 --> 00:14:02,134
ever thought about doing stuff on, like, TikTok

411
00:14:02,134 --> 00:14:04,215
or Instagram or Facebook or one of these

412
00:14:04,215 --> 00:14:06,639
other types of social media? It's crossed my

413
00:14:06,639 --> 00:14:08,100
mind. I haven't

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00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,519
decided to execute just yet. Maybe someday in

415
00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:14,404
the near future. Who knows? Well, this actually

416
00:14:14,404 --> 00:14:16,184
strikes, I think, perhaps to

417
00:14:16,644 --> 00:14:18,985
what we think about as as introverts because

418
00:14:19,285 --> 00:14:20,644
for some reason, I don't know if you

419
00:14:20,644 --> 00:14:22,540
have the same thing, Sasha, I don't find

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00:14:22,540 --> 00:14:24,779
LinkedIn all that tiring. Like to me, it's

421
00:14:24,779 --> 00:14:26,879
just, a professional forum

422
00:14:27,580 --> 00:14:30,504
where I can behave like professional. But Facebook

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00:14:30,504 --> 00:14:31,725
I find exhausting.

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00:14:32,585 --> 00:14:33,085
And

425
00:14:33,465 --> 00:14:35,805
I don't even I don't even touch TikTok

426
00:14:36,904 --> 00:14:38,764
or Instagram. It's just

427
00:14:39,370 --> 00:14:41,850
it's just exhausting for whatever reason. Is that

428
00:14:41,850 --> 00:14:43,850
something that that you experience too? Or is

429
00:14:43,850 --> 00:14:46,429
it just me? I haven't really tried

430
00:14:47,264 --> 00:14:49,365
Facebook and Instagram that much professionally.

431
00:14:50,065 --> 00:14:52,085
So I just use it for

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00:14:52,705 --> 00:14:53,925
the standard Facebook

433
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,240
cat pictures and that kind of thing. Not

434
00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,139
so much for,

435
00:14:58,919 --> 00:14:59,820
business development.

436
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,379
The people I've spoken to who

437
00:15:02,845 --> 00:15:05,504
do use Instagram enjoy it. I

438
00:15:06,125 --> 00:15:07,644
I'm not opposed to it. I I just

439
00:15:07,644 --> 00:15:10,720
haven't explored it that much yet. So maybe

440
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,040
another suggestion we can make to introverts who

441
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:14,399
are looking to do more or to get

442
00:15:14,399 --> 00:15:16,320
involved with social media. Let's start with the

443
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,080
platform that makes the most sense. For you

444
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:19,779
and I, it's been LinkedIn. I suspect

445
00:15:20,304 --> 00:15:22,304
for a lot of professionals, it'll probably be

446
00:15:22,304 --> 00:15:24,225
LinkedIn. You know, a lot of attorneys will

447
00:15:24,225 --> 00:15:26,304
wanna do LinkedIn. And that's where you should

448
00:15:26,304 --> 00:15:27,580
start and it makes a lot of sense.

449
00:15:27,580 --> 00:15:29,419
If for some reason though you absolutely love

450
00:15:29,419 --> 00:15:30,480
one of the other platforms,

451
00:15:30,860 --> 00:15:32,700
you know, jump in and and start with

452
00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:34,860
that one, but start with one and see

453
00:15:34,860 --> 00:15:37,325
how it goes. Right? And remember, whatever you

454
00:15:37,325 --> 00:15:39,164
do, make sure you you're authentic when you're

455
00:15:39,164 --> 00:15:40,304
doing this social media.

456
00:15:40,764 --> 00:15:43,664
One of my top inspirations for being authentic

457
00:15:43,964 --> 00:15:44,865
on social media

458
00:15:45,509 --> 00:15:46,970
is, James Robillora,

459
00:15:47,429 --> 00:15:50,330
who I met through Roman Zelichhenko,

460
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:51,850
and he has

461
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:52,889
really

462
00:15:53,524 --> 00:15:56,164
very powerful content on the importance of being

463
00:15:56,164 --> 00:15:58,504
authentic and being yourself in any kind of

464
00:15:58,565 --> 00:16:00,904
context when you're speaking publicly or when you're

465
00:16:01,179 --> 00:16:02,480
engaging on social media.

466
00:16:02,940 --> 00:16:05,259
Awesome. Thank you, Sajid. Thank you for sharing

467
00:16:05,259 --> 00:16:07,500
your expertise and your experience with us here

468
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:09,179
on Warrior Business Advantage. It's been a real

469
00:16:09,179 --> 00:16:10,504
pleasure having you on the show. Thank you,

470
00:16:10,504 --> 00:16:12,264
Ali. I appreciate you. Well, we like it

471
00:16:12,264 --> 00:16:13,865
so much. We're gonna have you back for

472
00:16:13,865 --> 00:16:14,684
another episode

473
00:16:15,065 --> 00:16:17,164
next week where we're gonna be talking about,

474
00:16:17,610 --> 00:16:18,649
what are we even talking about? Oh, yeah.

475
00:16:18,649 --> 00:16:21,769
Public speaking for introverts. Now there's a there's

476
00:16:21,769 --> 00:16:23,450
a real conundrum, and I'm looking forward to

477
00:16:23,450 --> 00:16:25,884
chatting with you about it. Sajah, if people

478
00:16:25,884 --> 00:16:27,404
wanna connect with you, what's the best way

479
00:16:27,404 --> 00:16:29,825
for them to do that? My website is

480
00:16:30,045 --> 00:16:30,545
sar.law.

481
00:16:31,404 --> 00:16:32,705
Awesome. Thank you, Sajah.

482
00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:35,519
And that's a wrap for this episode of

483
00:16:35,519 --> 00:16:37,539
the Lawyer Business Advantage podcast.

484
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,159
One thing that would really help both us

485
00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:41,860
and other new potential listeners

486
00:16:42,184 --> 00:16:43,785
is for you to rate this show and

487
00:16:43,785 --> 00:16:46,904
leave a comment in Itunes, Stitcher, or wherever

488
00:16:46,904 --> 00:16:48,904
you tune in to listen. And I want

489
00:16:48,904 --> 00:16:50,720
to hear from you, so connect with me

490
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,480
on LinkedIn and let me know what you

491
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:53,700
think of this episode.

492
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,320
And if you are a solo or an

493
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,399
owner of a small law firm, and you're

494
00:16:58,399 --> 00:17:01,285
looking to earn more money, attract better clients,

495
00:17:01,585 --> 00:17:02,884
or reduce your stress,

496
00:17:03,185 --> 00:17:04,705
we would love to talk with you to

497
00:17:04,705 --> 00:17:05,765
see how we can help.

498
00:17:06,065 --> 00:17:08,164
Request your free law firm assessment

499
00:17:08,569 --> 00:17:09,789
by visiting lawfirmsuccessgroup.com.

500
00:17:11,769 --> 00:17:12,829
Again, that URL

501
00:17:13,130 --> 00:17:13,950
is lawfirmsuccessgroup.com.

502
00:17:16,545 --> 00:17:18,404
We look forward to talking with you soon.

503
00:17:18,865 --> 00:17:19,924
Thank you for listening.

504
00:17:20,305 --> 00:17:21,445
My name is Alej

505
00:17:21,904 --> 00:17:22,404
Yajnik.

506
00:17:22,705 --> 00:17:24,085
Until next time, remember,

507
00:17:24,545 --> 00:17:27,779
you can seize freedom. You can embrace happiness.

508
00:17:28,159 --> 00:17:30,419
You can build your perfect practice.