1 00:00:02,101 --> 00:00:05,512 Welcome to lawyer business advantage. This podcast is 2 00:00:05,512 --> 00:00:08,154 dedicated to helping attorneys earn more money 3 00:00:08,544 --> 00:00:11,025 get better clients and spend more time with 4 00:00:11,025 --> 00:00:11,345 family. 5 00:00:11,985 --> 00:00:13,285 I'm your host, Ale 6 00:00:13,585 --> 00:00:14,065 Y, 7 00:00:14,464 --> 00:00:16,304 founder of Law firm success group. 8 00:00:17,276 --> 00:00:20,139 Smart business guidance for small law firms begins 9 00:00:20,139 --> 00:00:23,161 in 321. 10 00:00:23,638 --> 00:00:25,626 It's my pleasure to welcome back to Lawyer 11 00:00:25,626 --> 00:00:26,342 business advantage, 12 00:00:27,153 --> 00:00:29,626 Sa Ro, the owner of Ro floss. Sasha. 13 00:00:29,785 --> 00:00:31,540 How are you doing today? I'm doing great. 14 00:00:31,699 --> 00:00:33,614 How are you? I'm doing great. It's great 15 00:00:33,614 --> 00:00:34,810 to have you back in the show, and 16 00:00:34,810 --> 00:00:36,507 we're talking about a topic that 17 00:00:36,979 --> 00:00:38,494 near and dear to your heart and to 18 00:00:38,494 --> 00:00:40,807 mine, which is if you're an introvert, 19 00:00:41,365 --> 00:00:42,961 how on earth are you gonna bring in 20 00:00:42,961 --> 00:00:45,353 business. Both of us are introverts and know 21 00:00:45,353 --> 00:00:47,043 we may not appear that way. In our... 22 00:00:47,203 --> 00:00:49,218 In the way that we market ourselves, but 23 00:00:49,356 --> 00:00:51,430 we both need to recharge. What are some 24 00:00:51,430 --> 00:00:53,584 of the challenges that you've experienced and that 25 00:00:53,584 --> 00:00:54,403 you've seen other 26 00:00:54,780 --> 00:00:56,615 experience, Saga when it comes to business development. 27 00:00:57,743 --> 00:00:59,515 When I first started networking, 28 00:01:00,128 --> 00:01:02,854 my limitation in this introvert felt debilitating. 29 00:01:03,388 --> 00:01:04,524 So I 30 00:01:05,058 --> 00:01:06,194 grew up in 31 00:01:06,584 --> 00:01:09,162 part the middle East that is very, very 32 00:01:09,381 --> 00:01:10,600 conservative and 33 00:01:10,979 --> 00:01:13,078 told women and girls that it was virtuous 34 00:01:13,137 --> 00:01:16,103 to be unseen and unheard. And I was 35 00:01:16,103 --> 00:01:16,603 considered 36 00:01:16,976 --> 00:01:18,959 quiet in that society standards. 37 00:01:20,150 --> 00:01:23,664 So joining a networking organization starting to network 38 00:01:24,294 --> 00:01:25,353 in lawyers circles 39 00:01:26,291 --> 00:01:27,330 felt daunting. 40 00:01:27,889 --> 00:01:28,389 And 41 00:01:28,768 --> 00:01:29,268 I 42 00:01:29,887 --> 00:01:31,106 developed type 1 diabetes 43 00:01:31,659 --> 00:01:33,912 few years ago adult onset type 1 diabetes. 44 00:01:34,607 --> 00:01:35,824 So my devices 45 00:01:36,359 --> 00:01:39,068 that do my pancreas job made me feel 46 00:01:39,068 --> 00:01:41,002 even more self conscious about 47 00:01:41,393 --> 00:01:41,949 not working. 48 00:01:43,061 --> 00:01:45,388 And Sasha, for those people who weren't feeling 49 00:01:45,444 --> 00:01:47,191 familiar with what those alerts and things are. 50 00:01:47,350 --> 00:01:48,779 Would you mind just giving us a quick 51 00:01:48,779 --> 00:01:48,938 overview? 52 00:01:49,670 --> 00:01:50,170 So 53 00:01:50,469 --> 00:01:52,489 type 1 Diabetes means your pancreas 54 00:01:53,109 --> 00:01:54,549 does not produce in insulin at all. 55 00:01:55,270 --> 00:01:58,469 And you... I wear 2 devices. 1 measures 56 00:01:58,469 --> 00:01:59,923 my blood sugar every 5 minutes, 57 00:02:00,643 --> 00:02:02,481 and the other gives me insulin. The 1 58 00:02:02,481 --> 00:02:03,860 that measures my blood sugar 59 00:02:05,038 --> 00:02:07,196 alerts me when my blood sugar is going 60 00:02:07,196 --> 00:02:08,235 too high or too low. 61 00:02:09,128 --> 00:02:11,283 And so it would go off during the 62 00:02:11,283 --> 00:02:13,837 networking meeting, and people would turn and look 63 00:02:13,837 --> 00:02:14,715 at me, and that was, 64 00:02:15,913 --> 00:02:17,843 maybe feel even more uncomfortable than I was, 65 00:02:18,003 --> 00:02:19,699 it would go after during business lunches 66 00:02:20,316 --> 00:02:22,731 as if I needed something to make my 67 00:02:22,790 --> 00:02:24,066 networking even more difficult. 68 00:02:25,118 --> 00:02:27,428 Wow. Oh my gosh. And that an introvert 69 00:02:27,428 --> 00:02:29,659 when you're coming into these meetings, there's 30, 70 00:02:29,739 --> 00:02:31,810 40 people in the room. When you first 71 00:02:31,810 --> 00:02:33,324 started, how how would you how would you 72 00:02:33,324 --> 00:02:35,513 feel when you did that? I would 73 00:02:36,130 --> 00:02:37,188 hope that 74 00:02:37,726 --> 00:02:40,358 nobody would approach me. I would just show 75 00:02:40,358 --> 00:02:42,629 up as a sort of dreaded 76 00:02:42,930 --> 00:02:44,930 obligation. I need to do this. I am 77 00:02:44,930 --> 00:02:47,889 going to appear. Hopefully nobody talks to me. 78 00:02:48,450 --> 00:02:50,544 I will just disappear into the sit in 79 00:02:50,544 --> 00:02:52,145 the corner, hope nobody approaches me. 80 00:02:52,864 --> 00:02:55,444 And 1 thing I will say is that 81 00:02:56,064 --> 00:02:56,564 having 82 00:02:57,344 --> 00:02:58,384 1 on ones with people, 83 00:02:59,185 --> 00:02:59,685 helped 84 00:03:00,317 --> 00:03:02,250 a lot because those 85 00:03:03,025 --> 00:03:03,923 conversations really 86 00:03:04,299 --> 00:03:06,370 made it easier once I got to know 87 00:03:06,370 --> 00:03:08,224 people 1 in 1 to go back to 88 00:03:08,934 --> 00:03:10,209 the next networking meeting. 89 00:03:11,086 --> 00:03:13,101 It took a lot of effort 90 00:03:13,478 --> 00:03:15,073 at first. Once I got the hang of 91 00:03:15,073 --> 00:03:17,066 it, things were much easier. 92 00:03:17,799 --> 00:03:19,477 Yeah. 1 of the things that I I 93 00:03:19,477 --> 00:03:20,756 think about a lot. I don't know how 94 00:03:20,756 --> 00:03:22,753 often I say it, but is that personal 95 00:03:22,753 --> 00:03:25,330 growth happens outside of our comfort zones. And 96 00:03:25,722 --> 00:03:28,342 the situation you were way outside of your 97 00:03:28,342 --> 00:03:32,074 comfort zone. And so, I expect that it 98 00:03:32,074 --> 00:03:34,479 sounds like it could be really terrifying. And 99 00:03:34,709 --> 00:03:35,989 You know, what kept you in it? Like, 100 00:03:36,150 --> 00:03:38,229 why didn't you just say, okay. Well, I 101 00:03:38,229 --> 00:03:39,430 have to do this. I'm out of here. 102 00:03:40,229 --> 00:03:41,430 But you hung in there? Why did you 103 00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:41,909 hang in there? 104 00:03:42,563 --> 00:03:45,057 I was tucked to, but I 105 00:03:45,435 --> 00:03:46,950 stuck to it and decided to figure it 106 00:03:46,950 --> 00:03:49,742 out and decided to challenge myself because I 107 00:03:49,742 --> 00:03:50,242 needed 108 00:03:50,779 --> 00:03:54,223 resources for my clients. So I wanted... And 109 00:03:54,223 --> 00:03:56,455 this was during a tumultuous time and integration 110 00:03:56,455 --> 00:03:59,166 loss so my client seated more resources, more 111 00:03:59,166 --> 00:04:00,522 advisors than usual. 112 00:04:01,414 --> 00:04:04,603 And I needed to connect them with all 113 00:04:04,603 --> 00:04:07,972 types of attorneys and experts to help the 114 00:04:08,270 --> 00:04:09,067 of their cases. 115 00:04:10,118 --> 00:04:13,780 And as a practice owner, of course, referral 116 00:04:13,780 --> 00:04:16,328 networking is for me, has been the most 117 00:04:16,328 --> 00:04:17,921 effective form of business development. 118 00:04:18,334 --> 00:04:21,067 So It felt like something I needed to 119 00:04:21,445 --> 00:04:22,902 at the beginning door 120 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,832 until I figured it out and then found 121 00:04:25,832 --> 00:04:27,746 my... The mode that works for me. 122 00:04:28,954 --> 00:04:30,461 Another thing you mentioned is that you said 123 00:04:30,461 --> 00:04:31,811 that the 1 on ones were good. 124 00:04:33,001 --> 00:04:34,771 Like you really enjoyed that 1 on 1 125 00:04:34,827 --> 00:04:35,644 interaction. And 126 00:04:35,953 --> 00:04:37,463 for most of us who are introverted that 127 00:04:37,463 --> 00:04:39,530 is where we thrive. And so if we 128 00:04:39,530 --> 00:04:41,620 can just get past that initial 129 00:04:42,073 --> 00:04:43,901 hump where we're dealing with all of this 130 00:04:43,901 --> 00:04:46,859 social anxiety you know, all the energy that 131 00:04:46,859 --> 00:04:48,450 we just wanna escape. If we can get 132 00:04:48,450 --> 00:04:50,359 past that, build a couple connections and then 133 00:04:50,359 --> 00:04:51,791 move very quickly as possible, 134 00:04:52,364 --> 00:04:54,061 into, like, a 1 on 1 type of 135 00:04:54,199 --> 00:04:56,034 conversation, we can really break through, and we 136 00:04:56,034 --> 00:04:58,508 can have success. I was just interviewing Gary 137 00:04:58,588 --> 00:04:59,466 Johnson, who you know. 138 00:05:00,119 --> 00:05:03,231 And he was talking about how introverts are 139 00:05:03,231 --> 00:05:05,885 actually very successful at networking or can be 140 00:05:05,943 --> 00:05:07,060 because we listen really well. 141 00:05:07,791 --> 00:05:09,221 We don't need to be talking all the 142 00:05:09,221 --> 00:05:12,079 time. That was very insightful, and that all 143 00:05:12,079 --> 00:05:14,144 makes sense provided we can get past that 144 00:05:14,144 --> 00:05:16,129 that initial hump and start to connect with 145 00:05:16,129 --> 00:05:18,923 people. So you're in the situation where, you 146 00:05:18,923 --> 00:05:19,717 know, people are... 147 00:05:20,352 --> 00:05:22,733 Where you're really thinking, you just don't wanna 148 00:05:22,733 --> 00:05:24,162 be seen or notice or talk to. 149 00:05:24,814 --> 00:05:26,249 Yet you know you have to keep showing 150 00:05:26,249 --> 00:05:28,003 up. What was the change... What were some 151 00:05:28,003 --> 00:05:29,459 changes that you made 152 00:05:29,836 --> 00:05:32,467 to kinda move from where you were, which 153 00:05:32,467 --> 00:05:33,286 was being 154 00:05:33,598 --> 00:05:37,434 totally not really wanting to network to where 155 00:05:37,490 --> 00:05:40,667 now, which is you're just absolutely unstoppable when 156 00:05:40,667 --> 00:05:42,494 it comes to networking and you're everywhere. 157 00:05:43,542 --> 00:05:44,813 So I read 158 00:05:45,448 --> 00:05:48,705 Acts networking for people hate networking, and that 159 00:05:48,705 --> 00:05:50,850 was a game changer, and they'll always be 160 00:05:50,850 --> 00:05:52,756 grateful for her for writing that book. 161 00:05:53,724 --> 00:05:54,224 And 162 00:05:54,834 --> 00:05:55,334 I 163 00:05:55,785 --> 00:05:57,237 force myself to implement 164 00:05:57,609 --> 00:05:59,061 the theories in her book 165 00:05:59,909 --> 00:06:00,995 among the top 166 00:06:01,752 --> 00:06:03,130 suggestions is to, 167 00:06:03,746 --> 00:06:04,863 before a networking event, 168 00:06:05,421 --> 00:06:07,676 you gather your energy and 169 00:06:08,213 --> 00:06:10,707 schedule time after networking event to 170 00:06:11,099 --> 00:06:12,216 also I'll gather your energy, 171 00:06:13,093 --> 00:06:13,593 and 172 00:06:14,289 --> 00:06:16,203 she has tips on how to survive small 173 00:06:16,203 --> 00:06:16,443 talk. 174 00:06:17,719 --> 00:06:19,256 The the main thing for 175 00:06:19,633 --> 00:06:20,452 that made 176 00:06:20,924 --> 00:06:21,424 networking 177 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,730 doable for me is to focus on 178 00:06:26,186 --> 00:06:26,585 giving. 179 00:06:27,382 --> 00:06:27,882 So 180 00:06:28,578 --> 00:06:29,557 I learned that 181 00:06:30,029 --> 00:06:32,763 during the early few months of quarantine, 182 00:06:33,779 --> 00:06:35,556 I learned about a 183 00:06:36,014 --> 00:06:37,391 company that sends 184 00:06:38,101 --> 00:06:41,351 glucose gel necklaces to type 1 diabetic front 185 00:06:41,351 --> 00:06:41,906 my markers, 186 00:06:42,540 --> 00:06:44,046 type 1 zinc to carry sugar on them 187 00:06:44,046 --> 00:06:44,681 at all times, 188 00:06:45,649 --> 00:06:47,562 and they were sending them for free. So 189 00:06:47,642 --> 00:06:49,976 I was very touched by their generosity, 190 00:06:50,433 --> 00:06:52,506 and I decided to speak publicly about my 191 00:06:52,506 --> 00:06:54,021 type 1 diabetes, which I used to keep 192 00:06:54,021 --> 00:06:56,027 a secret, in order to support this company. 193 00:06:56,265 --> 00:06:59,867 So that same mindset transferred to a networking 194 00:06:59,924 --> 00:07:00,424 context. 195 00:07:00,879 --> 00:07:01,379 So 196 00:07:01,769 --> 00:07:04,649 When I'm not working, I am seeking opportunities, 197 00:07:04,810 --> 00:07:07,290 I'm listening for opportunities to support my colleagues, 198 00:07:07,930 --> 00:07:10,250 whether that's for for all or finding them, 199 00:07:10,583 --> 00:07:12,248 speaking opportunity or whatever kind of support they're 200 00:07:12,248 --> 00:07:13,937 looking for, and then 201 00:07:14,388 --> 00:07:15,918 that abundance mindset 202 00:07:16,448 --> 00:07:17,479 that giving drive, 203 00:07:18,129 --> 00:07:20,683 Boomerang and comes back to you in the 204 00:07:20,683 --> 00:07:22,679 form of what you're looking for to build 205 00:07:22,679 --> 00:07:25,233 your business. I love that. So you really 206 00:07:25,233 --> 00:07:27,045 took the... In some ways, you took the 207 00:07:27,244 --> 00:07:29,316 your own personal spotlight off of you and 208 00:07:29,316 --> 00:07:31,548 put it on other people. Exactly You transferred, 209 00:07:31,627 --> 00:07:33,301 you, that anxiety that you had. You said 210 00:07:33,301 --> 00:07:34,736 it doesn't really matter. I'm not even gonna 211 00:07:34,736 --> 00:07:36,264 think about my myself. I'm just gonna focus 212 00:07:36,264 --> 00:07:38,175 on how it can help other people. Exactly. 213 00:07:38,493 --> 00:07:40,245 And maybe you weren't dwelling on that as 214 00:07:40,245 --> 00:07:42,236 much. And I love the idea about taking 215 00:07:42,236 --> 00:07:44,242 some time to charge up for a meeting, 216 00:07:44,482 --> 00:07:45,141 and then 217 00:07:45,519 --> 00:07:47,832 batteries get depleted, charge up after the meeting 218 00:07:47,832 --> 00:07:49,746 as well. Just out of curiosity, I love 219 00:07:49,746 --> 00:07:51,660 to compare notes because you and I run 220 00:07:51,660 --> 00:07:54,308 our share of networking meetings, which is incredibly 221 00:07:54,308 --> 00:07:54,808 exhausting 222 00:07:55,186 --> 00:07:57,740 about how much time do you take before 223 00:07:57,740 --> 00:07:59,336 the meaning to charge up and about how 224 00:07:59,336 --> 00:08:01,091 much time do you take after meaning to 225 00:08:01,091 --> 00:08:01,331 recharge? 226 00:08:02,144 --> 00:08:04,558 It depends on the extent of my involvement 227 00:08:04,696 --> 00:08:07,248 in the in the meeting. So if I'm 228 00:08:07,248 --> 00:08:08,046 just showing up, 229 00:08:08,843 --> 00:08:09,343 then 230 00:08:09,721 --> 00:08:11,475 now it takes just about half an hour, 231 00:08:11,888 --> 00:08:12,365 afterwards, 232 00:08:12,841 --> 00:08:15,781 not necessarily of doing something relaxing, but just... 233 00:08:15,940 --> 00:08:17,370 I make sure that I don't have any 234 00:08:17,370 --> 00:08:18,585 client meetings scheduled 235 00:08:18,974 --> 00:08:21,044 in that half hour after a networking meeting. 236 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,012 And I usually schedule 237 00:08:24,548 --> 00:08:25,048 networking 238 00:08:25,583 --> 00:08:26,936 1 on ones in the afternoon. 239 00:08:27,588 --> 00:08:29,733 So that in the morning, I and the 240 00:08:29,733 --> 00:08:31,028 early afternoon and my 241 00:08:31,561 --> 00:08:33,150 energy. My attention is focused just on my 242 00:08:33,150 --> 00:08:35,376 legal work. And then if I'm running the 243 00:08:35,376 --> 00:08:38,498 meeting myself, then I'll block off a couple 244 00:08:38,498 --> 00:08:39,875 of hours afterwards, 245 00:08:40,970 --> 00:08:42,964 during which it's merely impossible to get a 246 00:08:42,964 --> 00:08:44,320 hold of me sort of a fire alarm. 247 00:08:46,488 --> 00:08:48,715 That's cool. And we're very similar. So, you 248 00:08:48,715 --> 00:08:49,828 know, if I'm in a meeting, but I'm 249 00:08:49,828 --> 00:08:52,134 not running it, it's usually a couple of 250 00:08:52,134 --> 00:08:53,032 hours afterwards. 251 00:08:53,725 --> 00:08:55,815 But after I run a meeting, it's 252 00:08:56,524 --> 00:08:59,634 really generally half a day, sometimes longer. And 253 00:08:59,714 --> 00:09:01,150 I can tell, like, if I have to 254 00:09:01,150 --> 00:09:03,463 do something in that down period, my energy 255 00:09:03,463 --> 00:09:05,058 is definitely down, and I'm not at the 256 00:09:05,058 --> 00:09:06,984 top of my game. So makes a lot 257 00:09:06,984 --> 00:09:08,970 of sense and it's this really, really cool 258 00:09:08,970 --> 00:09:10,241 suggestion to do it. I think most of 259 00:09:10,241 --> 00:09:12,307 us who are introverted to do these kinds 260 00:09:12,307 --> 00:09:14,610 of events naturally have to do that anyways. 261 00:09:14,863 --> 00:09:17,084 Just kind of the the coping mechanism that 262 00:09:17,084 --> 00:09:19,859 we have to do. So giving ourselves permission 263 00:09:19,859 --> 00:09:21,152 to to do that 264 00:09:21,604 --> 00:09:23,368 makes a ton of sense. I just out 265 00:09:23,368 --> 00:09:25,601 of curiosity, You know why networking? You could've 266 00:09:25,601 --> 00:09:27,276 have you could have done writing. You could 267 00:09:27,276 --> 00:09:29,828 have done speaking. And actually, now they think 268 00:09:29,828 --> 00:09:32,221 about it. You do those things as well. 269 00:09:33,033 --> 00:09:33,931 And so 270 00:09:34,547 --> 00:09:36,560 you know, as an introvert, how would you 271 00:09:37,415 --> 00:09:39,885 compare and contrast the 3 forms of the 272 00:09:39,885 --> 00:09:42,137 typical forms of business development, whether it's 273 00:09:42,529 --> 00:09:43,029 networking, 274 00:09:43,487 --> 00:09:45,104 writing slash social media 275 00:09:45,722 --> 00:09:46,201 and speaking. 276 00:09:47,158 --> 00:09:48,776 I surprised myself 277 00:09:49,154 --> 00:09:50,771 when I started to 278 00:09:51,402 --> 00:09:54,503 experiment with those kinds of business development. I 279 00:09:54,503 --> 00:09:54,821 was... 280 00:09:55,378 --> 00:09:57,525 I've been really surprised at the reactions I've 281 00:09:57,525 --> 00:09:59,036 got when I've spoken, 282 00:09:59,751 --> 00:10:00,490 I've been 283 00:10:01,198 --> 00:10:02,414 surprised that the 284 00:10:02,948 --> 00:10:04,858 reactions I've got when I posted on Linkedin, 285 00:10:05,812 --> 00:10:06,710 And I've been 286 00:10:07,085 --> 00:10:08,063 very surprised 287 00:10:08,373 --> 00:10:09,746 stunned at the 288 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,310 results I've gotten in networking. 289 00:10:12,025 --> 00:10:13,081 So it wasn't 290 00:10:13,613 --> 00:10:14,668 necessarily a 291 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:15,780 deliberate 292 00:10:16,168 --> 00:10:18,636 kind of let me do all these things 293 00:10:18,636 --> 00:10:20,308 and see at 6. It was just sort 294 00:10:20,308 --> 00:10:22,798 of a... Well this is what law firm 295 00:10:23,094 --> 00:10:23,594 owners 296 00:10:24,143 --> 00:10:26,451 tend to do to... So let me do 297 00:10:26,451 --> 00:10:27,269 them. And 298 00:10:27,724 --> 00:10:31,169 when I started to see results, I kept 299 00:10:31,956 --> 00:10:33,545 engaging in all of them. 300 00:10:34,260 --> 00:10:36,166 Very cool. And, yeah having a lot of 301 00:10:36,166 --> 00:10:37,040 success with all 3. 302 00:10:37,834 --> 00:10:39,662 Let's jump back to networking because I think 303 00:10:39,662 --> 00:10:41,343 that's pretty much what we're talking about today. 304 00:10:41,819 --> 00:10:44,674 And you moved from being a, a member 305 00:10:44,674 --> 00:10:47,316 at large in this organization which is supervisors 306 00:10:47,450 --> 00:10:47,950 to 307 00:10:48,339 --> 00:10:49,775 a group leader, and you did that in 308 00:10:49,775 --> 00:10:53,045 a relatively short period of time. So we'd 309 00:10:53,045 --> 00:10:55,517 love to get the... Your... The insider perspective 310 00:10:55,517 --> 00:10:57,910 from you on how this all actually happened. 311 00:10:58,721 --> 00:10:59,460 It was 312 00:10:59,835 --> 00:11:00,869 very unexpected. 313 00:11:01,824 --> 00:11:02,642 I had 314 00:11:03,574 --> 00:11:06,676 emailed the Bay Area's regional director, Ian Bur. 315 00:11:07,247 --> 00:11:08,915 In 20 20, and I told him about 316 00:11:09,788 --> 00:11:10,899 Book. And I said, 317 00:11:11,773 --> 00:11:14,075 Fyi, if you have any numbers who are 318 00:11:14,075 --> 00:11:16,710 struggling who are introverts who are I haven't 319 00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:18,534 a hard time making the most out of 320 00:11:18,534 --> 00:11:20,915 their membership. You should recommend this book for 321 00:11:20,915 --> 00:11:21,867 them it really helped me. 322 00:11:22,660 --> 00:11:24,980 And his response to that was I have 323 00:11:24,980 --> 00:11:26,259 my sights on you to be the group 324 00:11:26,259 --> 00:11:27,379 leader of San francisco 14. 325 00:11:28,179 --> 00:11:30,019 And I I thought he was joking. I 326 00:11:30,019 --> 00:11:31,379 thought he was... He had a member of 327 00:11:31,379 --> 00:11:33,720 other candidates in mine, but sure enough he 328 00:11:34,191 --> 00:11:37,520 sending me the offer formally, and I accepted, 329 00:11:37,916 --> 00:11:39,446 and I was so 330 00:11:40,215 --> 00:11:40,715 honored 331 00:11:41,498 --> 00:11:43,961 by his choosing me that I worked really 332 00:11:43,961 --> 00:11:46,105 hard. I really poured my heart soul to 333 00:11:46,105 --> 00:11:49,044 book the group, and it's become very, very 334 00:11:49,044 --> 00:11:50,792 successful. We've broke in a number of records 335 00:11:50,792 --> 00:11:51,784 and info advisors 336 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:53,220 and 337 00:11:53,597 --> 00:11:55,751 3 years into leadership, and sometimes I still 338 00:11:55,751 --> 00:11:56,867 can't believe what I've accomplished. 339 00:11:57,585 --> 00:11:59,898 Yeah. You're totally crushing it. Why do you 340 00:11:59,898 --> 00:12:00,935 think ian thought of you? 341 00:12:01,588 --> 00:12:03,024 I've asked him that question many times and 342 00:12:03,104 --> 00:12:04,699 I'm still not a hundred percent clear, but 343 00:12:04,858 --> 00:12:05,677 I've told 344 00:12:06,134 --> 00:12:09,724 candidates that he's since approached for our leadership 345 00:12:09,724 --> 00:12:10,442 of other groups. 346 00:12:11,254 --> 00:12:13,729 If ian is seeing potential in you, then 347 00:12:13,729 --> 00:12:15,485 you definitely have potential even if it don't 348 00:12:15,485 --> 00:12:15,964 see in yourself. 349 00:12:18,598 --> 00:12:20,009 I'm pretty sure he doesn't just 350 00:12:20,606 --> 00:12:22,537 identify people who are 351 00:12:23,071 --> 00:12:25,616 shy. Right? Who are not seen in the 352 00:12:25,616 --> 00:12:27,684 group. So you were doing a number of 353 00:12:27,684 --> 00:12:28,184 things 354 00:12:28,494 --> 00:12:30,264 to at least increase your visibility. 355 00:12:31,114 --> 00:12:33,655 Yes. Within pro profiles going back to that 356 00:12:33,655 --> 00:12:35,005 time can you identify some of the things 357 00:12:35,005 --> 00:12:37,252 that you were doing that maybe other members 358 00:12:38,038 --> 00:12:39,733 we're not? I was 359 00:12:40,508 --> 00:12:41,783 forcing myself to guest. 360 00:12:42,659 --> 00:12:44,173 It took me a long time about 8 361 00:12:44,173 --> 00:12:46,244 or 9 months into membership before I finally 362 00:12:46,244 --> 00:12:48,092 be made myself do it. And this is 363 00:12:48,092 --> 00:12:50,964 pre Covid, so it meant waking up 04:30 364 00:12:50,964 --> 00:12:52,660 35 Am to 365 00:12:53,516 --> 00:12:54,574 drive to 366 00:12:54,952 --> 00:12:56,627 the side of the bay and fine parking 367 00:12:56,627 --> 00:12:57,026 and all that. 368 00:12:57,838 --> 00:12:58,338 And 369 00:12:58,953 --> 00:12:59,453 I 370 00:13:00,307 --> 00:13:02,003 went out of my way to do 371 00:13:02,698 --> 00:13:03,198 really 372 00:13:03,893 --> 00:13:04,871 memorable testimonials. 373 00:13:06,044 --> 00:13:06,544 And 374 00:13:07,652 --> 00:13:08,950 that is part of the 375 00:13:09,406 --> 00:13:11,820 abundance mindset they're giving mentality 376 00:13:12,436 --> 00:13:13,414 of really making 377 00:13:14,031 --> 00:13:16,676 the person who refers you business making them 378 00:13:16,676 --> 00:13:17,791 shining during the meeting. 379 00:13:18,668 --> 00:13:19,146 And, 380 00:13:19,783 --> 00:13:20,283 as 381 00:13:20,739 --> 00:13:23,448 my friend, in San francisco 5 Matthew K 382 00:13:23,448 --> 00:13:25,773 says when you shy and others it on 383 00:13:25,773 --> 00:13:25,933 you. 384 00:13:26,888 --> 00:13:29,198 I think that's part of what Ian, noticed. 385 00:13:29,596 --> 00:13:31,189 He likes to tell the story that at 386 00:13:31,189 --> 00:13:33,658 my very first supervisor meeting in 20 18. 387 00:13:34,549 --> 00:13:35,988 He noticed that I wasn't in the room 388 00:13:35,988 --> 00:13:36,648 and he 389 00:13:37,027 --> 00:13:38,945 stepped outside into the hallway and found me 390 00:13:38,945 --> 00:13:41,742 trembling and had to actually drag me into 391 00:13:41,742 --> 00:13:42,141 the meeting. 392 00:13:42,860 --> 00:13:43,360 So 393 00:13:44,233 --> 00:13:45,769 I'm glad he 394 00:13:46,145 --> 00:13:48,614 took that chance on Meeting and it's worked 395 00:13:48,614 --> 00:13:49,491 at really well it's time. 396 00:13:50,367 --> 00:13:51,977 Well, I I don't know how much of 397 00:13:51,977 --> 00:13:53,333 a chance he took on you to be 398 00:13:53,333 --> 00:13:54,610 honest. I mean, it sounds like, 399 00:13:55,487 --> 00:13:57,721 he recognized how far you would come and 400 00:13:57,721 --> 00:13:59,414 how much of an effort you had to 401 00:13:59,414 --> 00:14:01,174 put in and didn't come naturally to you, 402 00:14:01,975 --> 00:14:03,174 like it does is so many other people 403 00:14:03,174 --> 00:14:04,695 who are networking, when you had to work 404 00:14:04,695 --> 00:14:06,623 really the hard for it. And you didn't 405 00:14:06,623 --> 00:14:08,131 just do the bare minimum, you were waking 406 00:14:08,131 --> 00:14:09,719 up at 4 or 35 o'clock in the 407 00:14:09,719 --> 00:14:11,647 morning to drive to places. You were, 408 00:14:12,259 --> 00:14:14,505 you know, being present everywhere. You're 409 00:14:14,894 --> 00:14:17,052 thinking of other people first and how you 410 00:14:17,052 --> 00:14:19,209 could help them, and when someone would be 411 00:14:19,209 --> 00:14:20,408 kind of enough to send you a referral, 412 00:14:20,488 --> 00:14:22,645 you do a phenomenal job of thanking them. 413 00:14:23,139 --> 00:14:25,379 That sounds like a model pro member a 414 00:14:25,379 --> 00:14:26,820 model networking member to me, 415 00:14:27,539 --> 00:14:30,100 and it's no surprise that you were on 416 00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:31,320 the shortlist list for 417 00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:34,510 running a group. Thank you. I think my... 418 00:14:35,467 --> 00:14:38,499 The skills that I e sort of intrinsically 419 00:14:38,499 --> 00:14:40,389 have and that I developed more as a 420 00:14:40,509 --> 00:14:42,736 throughout my career an immigration lawyer, also came 421 00:14:42,736 --> 00:14:44,032 in handy because 422 00:14:44,963 --> 00:14:47,404 immigration, you have to be mindful of both 423 00:14:47,683 --> 00:14:50,308 the very minor details as well as the 424 00:14:50,308 --> 00:14:50,785 big picture. 425 00:14:51,581 --> 00:14:52,717 So I 426 00:14:53,092 --> 00:14:54,308 just sort of 427 00:14:54,779 --> 00:14:57,016 automatically apply those skills to everything I do. 428 00:14:57,176 --> 00:14:58,294 So improvise, 429 00:14:59,093 --> 00:15:01,510 I'm very well organized very 430 00:15:01,824 --> 00:15:03,257 every piece of data and my life goes 431 00:15:03,257 --> 00:15:03,893 into a spreadsheet. 432 00:15:04,848 --> 00:15:07,236 And so nothing's things organized like that means 433 00:15:07,236 --> 00:15:09,385 that I don't miss the opportunity to give 434 00:15:09,385 --> 00:15:11,950 somebody testimonial give me a referral. I don't 435 00:15:11,950 --> 00:15:14,029 know things off the cracks, and then with 436 00:15:14,029 --> 00:15:16,350 the goods that I won, it's also extremely 437 00:15:16,350 --> 00:15:19,565 organized and very a lot of thoughts and 438 00:15:19,565 --> 00:15:22,524 many thanks to my wonderful Ec for helping 439 00:15:22,524 --> 00:15:25,404 me run a well mission. Yeah. It takes 440 00:15:25,404 --> 00:15:26,205 the village. Isn't it. 441 00:15:27,578 --> 00:15:29,011 But for all you know working folks that 442 00:15:29,011 --> 00:15:30,525 are out there who are introverted and trying 443 00:15:30,525 --> 00:15:32,038 to figure out how to make this work. 444 00:15:32,516 --> 00:15:35,224 Massage laid out a great blueprint that worked 445 00:15:35,224 --> 00:15:37,804 well for her. And if you have the 446 00:15:38,256 --> 00:15:39,232 courage and 10 447 00:15:39,921 --> 00:15:42,380 to execute it and the heart, it will 448 00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:44,100 work well for you. But I think those 449 00:15:44,379 --> 00:15:45,437 things are 450 00:15:45,814 --> 00:15:47,489 important. You have to have the heart, Your 451 00:15:47,489 --> 00:15:48,606 heart has to be in the right place 452 00:15:48,606 --> 00:15:50,361 because networking working is about helping others and 453 00:15:50,361 --> 00:15:52,434 as an introvert because you listen well, you 454 00:15:52,434 --> 00:15:54,602 can do that better than most. That's number 455 00:15:54,602 --> 00:15:56,037 1. Number 2, you have to have the 456 00:15:56,037 --> 00:15:57,711 10 to do it. It means you're gonna 457 00:15:57,711 --> 00:15:59,145 be out of your comfort zone a lot. 458 00:15:59,464 --> 00:16:01,616 It will not be easy. It will be 459 00:16:01,616 --> 00:16:03,945 exhaust thing, It does get easier with time, 460 00:16:04,344 --> 00:16:06,659 but it'll still be exhausting. So just know 461 00:16:06,659 --> 00:16:09,213 that you're you're doing that, and the price 462 00:16:09,213 --> 00:16:10,491 at the end is worth it, It has 463 00:16:10,491 --> 00:16:12,023 to be worth to you. And then you 464 00:16:12,023 --> 00:16:13,142 have to have the courage to do it. 465 00:16:13,462 --> 00:16:16,019 It's really easy to not do this or 466 00:16:16,019 --> 00:16:17,457 to just do it in a half hearted 467 00:16:17,457 --> 00:16:18,815 way and say, yeah, I put in the 468 00:16:18,815 --> 00:16:20,826 hours and went to the meetings, but it's 469 00:16:20,826 --> 00:16:22,183 not just working for me, and I'm not 470 00:16:22,183 --> 00:16:23,460 gonna do it anymore. I'm gonna do other 471 00:16:23,460 --> 00:16:25,535 things. That's the easy way out. The courage 472 00:16:25,535 --> 00:16:27,664 is to, you know, embrace the fact that 473 00:16:27,944 --> 00:16:30,099 Although this may not be easy for you 474 00:16:30,099 --> 00:16:30,577 to do, 475 00:16:31,216 --> 00:16:33,770 you can do it. And you can be 476 00:16:33,770 --> 00:16:35,685 open about it, You can talk to people 477 00:16:35,685 --> 00:16:37,767 about things that are holding you back and 478 00:16:37,767 --> 00:16:40,785 people far it from people not respecting you 479 00:16:40,785 --> 00:16:42,374 as a result. They're actually gonna hold you 480 00:16:42,374 --> 00:16:44,065 in higher respect because 481 00:16:44,534 --> 00:16:45,893 And say, my gosh, you're going through all 482 00:16:45,893 --> 00:16:47,650 of this and you are still here? 483 00:16:48,529 --> 00:16:50,527 Are you kidding me? I need a hole 484 00:16:50,527 --> 00:16:51,885 with my head in a blanket if it 485 00:16:51,885 --> 00:16:54,786 was me. So those are the things you 486 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,065 you can deploy if you wanna be really 487 00:16:57,065 --> 00:16:59,050 good at networking. And and as an introvert, 488 00:16:59,209 --> 00:17:00,955 you can be very successful at Sa and 489 00:17:01,035 --> 00:17:03,751 I are both examples of that. And you 490 00:17:03,751 --> 00:17:06,079 also want... There is a non capable 491 00:17:06,454 --> 00:17:08,997 element of luck, so I was referring to 492 00:17:08,997 --> 00:17:11,658 supervisors on named at you at a bar 493 00:17:11,793 --> 00:17:12,904 association, holiday party, 494 00:17:13,699 --> 00:17:14,199 and 495 00:17:14,889 --> 00:17:15,921 you must have been the 1 who start 496 00:17:15,921 --> 00:17:16,557 the conversation. 497 00:17:17,747 --> 00:17:19,812 And then you referred me to supervisors under 498 00:17:19,812 --> 00:17:22,050 the rest history, so that was my good 499 00:17:22,050 --> 00:17:24,592 fortune to have prospects with you at that 500 00:17:24,592 --> 00:17:27,610 point in time. Yeah. Well, mine too, for 501 00:17:27,610 --> 00:17:30,191 sure. I'm glad about jump in this podcast 502 00:17:30,248 --> 00:17:32,156 together, and we can chat. And I'm looking 503 00:17:32,156 --> 00:17:33,667 forward to our next talk and I just 504 00:17:33,667 --> 00:17:35,734 realized what it could be if you're up 505 00:17:35,734 --> 00:17:36,052 for it. 506 00:17:36,863 --> 00:17:39,596 Let's talk a little bit about social media 507 00:17:39,734 --> 00:17:42,366 and Linkedin specifically as Introvert. How's does that 508 00:17:42,366 --> 00:17:45,157 sound? No. Alright. So attorney Entrepreneurs, we will 509 00:17:45,157 --> 00:17:46,848 see you next week Raj and I will 510 00:17:46,848 --> 00:17:49,163 be back, and we are gonna talk about 511 00:17:49,322 --> 00:17:51,079 Linkedin for introverts. 512 00:17:51,558 --> 00:17:53,473 Sasha. Thank you so much for being on 513 00:17:53,553 --> 00:17:55,804 V business advantage podcast podcasts today. Thank you, 514 00:17:55,964 --> 00:17:57,982 Ali for every wonderful thing you've 515 00:17:58,441 --> 00:17:59,001 introduced to my life. 516 00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:01,638 My my pleasure of course, and my honor. 517 00:18:01,798 --> 00:18:03,076 And if people wanna reach out to you, 518 00:18:03,156 --> 00:18:04,435 what's the best way for them to do 519 00:18:04,435 --> 00:18:04,515 that? 520 00:18:05,409 --> 00:18:07,726 My website is SAR 521 00:18:07,726 --> 00:18:09,644 dot law. My initials dot law. 522 00:18:10,843 --> 00:18:13,161 Alright. Terrific. So As will see back here 523 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,011 in next week. And we'll see all of 524 00:18:15,011 --> 00:18:16,762 you back here next week too. Thank you 525 00:18:16,762 --> 00:18:18,115 very much. Thank you, Elaine. 526 00:18:20,025 --> 00:18:21,776 If that's a wrap for this episode of 527 00:18:21,776 --> 00:18:23,788 the Lawyer business advantage podcast. 528 00:18:24,578 --> 00:18:26,493 1 thing that would really help both us 529 00:18:26,493 --> 00:18:28,110 and other new potential listeners 530 00:18:28,567 --> 00:18:30,003 is for you to rate this show and 531 00:18:30,003 --> 00:18:33,232 leave a comment in itunes stitch or wherever 532 00:18:33,290 --> 00:18:35,365 you tune in to listen. And I wanna 533 00:18:35,365 --> 00:18:37,201 hear from you. So connect with me on 534 00:18:37,281 --> 00:18:39,037 Linkedin and let me know what you think 535 00:18:39,037 --> 00:18:39,835 of this episode. 536 00:18:40,807 --> 00:18:42,641 And if you are a solo or an 537 00:18:42,641 --> 00:18:44,715 owner of a small law firm, and you're 538 00:18:44,715 --> 00:18:45,831 looking to earn more money, 539 00:18:46,469 --> 00:18:47,527 attract better clients 540 00:18:47,904 --> 00:18:48,941 or reduce your stress, 541 00:18:49,594 --> 00:18:50,948 We would love to talk with you to 542 00:18:50,948 --> 00:18:51,745 see how we can help. 543 00:18:52,542 --> 00:18:55,570 Request your free law firm assessment by visiting 544 00:18:55,570 --> 00:18:57,402 law firm success group dot com. 545 00:18:58,119 --> 00:18:59,177 Again, that Url 546 00:18:59,489 --> 00:19:02,206 is law firm success group dot com. 547 00:19:02,926 --> 00:19:04,444 We look forward to talking with you soon. 548 00:19:05,243 --> 00:19:06,122 Thank you for listening. 549 00:19:06,602 --> 00:19:08,460 My name is La Y. 550 00:19:09,172 --> 00:19:12,112 Until next time, remember, you can seize Freedom. 551 00:19:12,430 --> 00:19:13,940 You can embrace happiness. 552 00:19:14,417 --> 00:19:16,484 You can build your perfect practice.