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This is a message for everyone,

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and I mean everyone.

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What do you mean everyone?

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Everyone.

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We are all different.

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I'm not. And we all face different problems.

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But on a more fundamental level,

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we all face the same basic problem.

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We are ruled by criminals.

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No one should have the right to rule

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over others. And when such a power exists,

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it is inevitable that the worst of us

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will gravitate to these positions of power.

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Power corrupts.

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Absolute power corrupts absolutely. So the nation's

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society has a very simple solution.

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Remove that power.

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We ask all good people to unite and

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join us in demanding that the non aggression

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principle

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be established as the law

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through our three part peace agreement

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so that we can create a truly free

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society.

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For those who don't know, the non aggression

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principle is a principle that basically defines crime

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by whether or not you are causing harm

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or loss to another

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or at least threatening or attempting to.

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It is not a pacifist principle

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and it does allow for the use of

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force both for self defense and the defense

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of others, but it strictly forbids the initiation

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of force against peaceful people.

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Establishing this principle as the terms of peace,

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a law that is universally applied,

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would give us true equal rights

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and freedom for all.

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Welcome to the last American Vagabond. Joining me

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today is Matthew Sands from the Nations of

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Sanity Project, something that recently caught my attention.

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It appears it's been around for for a

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few years, and it's something that you've seen

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Derek and I talk about quite a lot.

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And this this this project focused primarily around

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the nonaggression principle as it was explained in

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the opening clip. But there's there's a lot

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of different kind of ideological,

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you know, back and forth going on today.

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And something that I,

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you know, stress more than anything today is

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is trying to find a path forward

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around or circumventing or completely or, you know,

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something that goes away from the path we've

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always been taking. And government is something that

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I'm constantly pointing out is, like, the central

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problem to most of the flights of the

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world. And so this project

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was coming at this from a different a

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slightly different angle, and I really wanted to

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flush this out today and have Matt on

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discuss, you know, how he sees this going

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forward, how it could possibly be something we

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take in that new path that I'm discussing.

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So, Matt, how are you today? Thank you

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for joining me.

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Yeah. I'm good, Ryan. Thank you for having

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me on.

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Well, it's my pleasure, man. I really I'm

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really, you know, enjoying

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the the perspectives that you were laying out

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with this going through your material. And as

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I was saying just there to open, it

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really is something that, you know, as I'm

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sure you agree with this your old project

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is is we need to find a new

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path, you know, and government and, you know,

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just being ruled over is something that I

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think, you know, you tell me what you

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think. I think more than ever just in

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the last year,

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I've never seen this many people

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open to that idea. You know? And what

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do you think about that at the start?

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Are you are you seeing a shift in

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people's opinions about things like this over the

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last year or so?

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Yeah. I am. I'm always kind of cautiously

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optimistic with things like that because I've also

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seen it in the past. It seems to

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come in waves,

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and I feel like the people who rule

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us do a good job of keeping the

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divide and rule going enough to kind of

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distract us from the solution that,

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that I'm obviously trying to present and that

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I think a lot of people would and

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should find themselves if it wasn't for all

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of these divide and rule tactics that go

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on. Yeah. Yeah. Most definitely. Well, why don't

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we start with, you know, introduce yourself. Let

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us know, you know, the project and how

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it came about, and then we'll get into

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the, you know, nitty gritty of it and

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break down the, you know, how and why

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and all that. So go ahead and introduce

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us to Nations of Sanity.

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Yeah. Well, the Nations of Sanity is based

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on the assertion that crime and therefore also

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law

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can and should be defined by the concept

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of individual self ownership and established as the

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terms of a peace agreement. So the nonaggression

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principle, which is the principle of individual self

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ownership,

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is basically the idea that you can do

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what you want as long as you don't

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violate the same self ownership

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rights and freedom that obviously comes with that

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that everybody else has. So we'll have the

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I mean, it's it's equal rights in its

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truest sense. The one right that everybody can

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have in equal measure is right over themselves.

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And this is the only kind of foundational

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right

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that really,

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you know, that provides the foundation

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for all other rights. Like, rights as a

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concept isn't really coherent without self ownership. Like,

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if you don't have right over yourself, then

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you can't coherently have right over anything or

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anyone. So there's a kind

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of objectively

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undeniable moral truth to the concept of individual

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self ownership. And I think if we kind

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of all come to understand and accept that,

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then the solution that comes from that becomes

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almost self evident.

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Yeah. Most definitely. And, again, I think this

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is kinda what people are starting to grapple

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with. We're always presented. I mean, we're, you

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know like, come speaking from an American perspective,

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but it it's very similar in the West

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in in in most places of the world.

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You know, I'm we're brought up in this

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mindset that there's some some inherent

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empirical, you know, morality or truth in government

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because they're there. And, you know, it's something

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that I just it's it's ridiculous when you

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look at just anything other than what they're

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saying. But because of all the shifting of

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everything happening today, people are starting to, I

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think, find the courage to actually look into

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this and realizing that it's it's an it's

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an it's a it's not a balanced relationship.

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And as you kind of highlighted there, this

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is, you know, if you're being doled out

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rights by a power structure, it could just

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as easily be taken away, which from an

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American perspective, that's not how the constitution is

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presented, but it's how it's being applied today.

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And so that's you know, it just represents

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the a a collecting power structure at the

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top will inevitably end up in this position.

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Even as the founding fathers of The United

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you know, of the of the, of The

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United States said in the beginning, we just

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can't learn from these these, long term lessons.

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But, you know, let let's start with the

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point of, you know, implementation on all this.

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Because as you write in your documentation, it

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you know, you have a three part piece

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agreement.

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And so then we get into, like, how

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you know, what my audience is gonna come

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from and just like I would too. Very

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skeptical minded and as I as I know

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you welcome. Right? That's important for all of

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this. Is it is like how would this

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actually work in the world as it is

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today? Because I'm right there with you. I

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think that these this is the right path

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in regard to, you know, if you were

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to start something from an you know, no

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one understood what government was. This would be

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an easy thing to to to get people

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to agree with. But because we're in this,

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who's gonna build the roads kind of a

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mindset, it becomes very difficult. So how how

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would this be implemented? Hypothetically,

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it was, you know, the global agreement we're

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gonna go forward on this. How would this

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begin?

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Well, I mean, I think the best way

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for people because I think the reason why

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people struggle to envisage envisage it is because

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all they've ever known is government. So Yeah.

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Few things that are provided by government currently,

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it's hard to imagine how could we do

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it. You know? But the obvious kind of,

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parallel to that is the abolition of slavery.

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You know? How are we gonna pick the

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cotton without slaves? Well,

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first of all, the question is kind of

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a side note to the simple fact that

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slavery is wrong. And it's like, well, we

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abolish slavery and deal with that question afterwards.

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But, also, that question

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kind of answers itself once you abolish slavery.

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Once you abolish slavery, then the cotton industry

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is forced to use, like, consensual employment,

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and then it goes on from there. And

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it's kind of a similar thing that I'm

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trying to say that we do with this

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is once we abolish

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statism,

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which is, you know, a kind of wider

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I mean, because the other thing as well

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is

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another reason why I like to use the

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parallel of the abolition of slavery is because

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what I'm saying is is

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let's abolish slavery

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like we did, but we didn't do it

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properly. There was two things we did wrong

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when we abolished slavery the first time. One,

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we only abolished a very narrowly defined form

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of slavery,

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whereas, like, you know, you I would argue

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that statism and the kind of ownership that

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governments claim over its people

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is basically just another form of slavery,

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what some might call free range slavery because

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we're not, you know, chained to specific manual

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labor that we are forced to do. But

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we are still there's still a claim of

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ownership over us, and we're just given a

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bit of more free reign to choose our

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job, but the government still claims ownership by

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demanding taxes from our income, you know, taxes

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from our property, taxes from our trade. You

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know? Basically and and even though they don't

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take a 100% of it, the fact that

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they claim any percentage and they're the ones

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who decide the percentage is essentially an ownership

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claim over the whole thing. So, basically,

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just as people could, you know, struggle to

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imagine a world without slavery before slavery was

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abolished because it's all what was ever known

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in, you know, throughout

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remembered history.

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But, also,

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the other problem with it is

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when we abolish slavery, in addition to only

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abolish abolishing this very narrow,

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you know, form of it, is we also

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also abolished it under the authority primarily under

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the authority of the same ruling governments that

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are guilty of these crimes. It would be

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like, you know, a slaver abolishing slavery for

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everybody but him and continuing to own, you

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know, his slaves. So,

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so those are the two problems. And what

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I'm saying is, okay. Well, let's do that,

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but do it right. So the two things

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00:09:51,105 --> 00:09:52,304
we need to correct is we need to

267
00:09:52,304 --> 00:09:54,084
not just abolish this narrowly

268
00:09:54,464 --> 00:09:57,284
form narrowed narrowly defined form of slavery,

269
00:09:58,144 --> 00:10:00,759
but we need to branch out to statism

270
00:10:00,899 --> 00:10:04,500
and to all not violating coercion. Any coercion

271
00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:06,600
that violates your ownership over yourself

272
00:10:07,139 --> 00:10:09,779
is needs to be abolished, and that's what

273
00:10:09,779 --> 00:10:11,459
we would do by establishing this law. And

274
00:10:11,459 --> 00:10:12,899
then the other thing that we're gonna do

275
00:10:12,899 --> 00:10:15,384
different is instead of establishing this law under

276
00:10:15,384 --> 00:10:18,205
the authority of a ruling government, we're establishing

277
00:10:18,264 --> 00:10:18,924
this law

278
00:10:19,304 --> 00:10:21,065
as a peace agreement, as the terms of

279
00:10:21,065 --> 00:10:23,565
a peace agreement. So there's no ruling authority.

280
00:10:23,945 --> 00:10:25,625
No one's saying I own you or you

281
00:10:25,625 --> 00:10:28,059
owe me. We're all equal owners. And and

282
00:10:28,059 --> 00:10:30,220
it's a little bit like how international law

283
00:10:30,220 --> 00:10:32,459
works today. Because that's the thing. There's already

284
00:10:32,459 --> 00:10:34,139
the precedent for this. We have law that's

285
00:10:34,139 --> 00:10:36,459
established through ruling authorities, but we also have

286
00:10:36,459 --> 00:10:37,360
law that's established,

287
00:10:37,899 --> 00:10:40,959
I e, international law, as peace agreements between

288
00:10:41,524 --> 00:10:44,565
sovereign governments. Now, obviously, we don't recognize governments

289
00:10:44,565 --> 00:10:46,965
as legitimate, but the same principle applies to

290
00:10:46,965 --> 00:10:49,125
individuals. We can have a peace agreement between

291
00:10:49,125 --> 00:10:51,365
us as equal parties. No one rules over

292
00:10:51,365 --> 00:10:53,684
anybody else, but it's the terms of peace,

293
00:10:53,684 --> 00:10:56,370
and it's formalized as the law in that

294
00:10:56,370 --> 00:10:59,110
sense. And by doing that, we would abolish,

295
00:10:59,250 --> 00:11:01,330
well, I would say abolish slavery properly, but

296
00:11:01,330 --> 00:11:03,649
we would abolish statism. We would abolish all

297
00:11:03,649 --> 00:11:06,929
forms of not violating coercion. And by simply

298
00:11:06,929 --> 00:11:09,269
just nailing it down to self ownership,

299
00:11:10,184 --> 00:11:10,665
the

300
00:11:11,065 --> 00:11:12,825
you know, because, obviously, there's all sorts of

301
00:11:12,825 --> 00:11:14,825
different laws that come from that, but they're

302
00:11:14,825 --> 00:11:16,365
all objectively identifiable

303
00:11:16,904 --> 00:11:19,465
from that one simple fact that you own

304
00:11:19,465 --> 00:11:20,825
you and I owe me. So we don't

305
00:11:20,825 --> 00:11:22,665
need to vote on whether rape, murder, theft,

306
00:11:22,665 --> 00:11:25,649
and assault are crimes because they clearly are

307
00:11:25,649 --> 00:11:27,889
by the fact that it's a violation of

308
00:11:27,889 --> 00:11:29,569
your self ownership to do any of those

309
00:11:29,569 --> 00:11:31,809
things to you. So there there's a kind

310
00:11:31,809 --> 00:11:32,470
of undeniability

311
00:11:32,850 --> 00:11:35,169
to it, and and there's also also, there's

312
00:11:35,169 --> 00:11:36,529
a precedent that we can look to in

313
00:11:36,529 --> 00:11:38,610
history where something similar to this has been

314
00:11:38,610 --> 00:11:40,764
done. But the two things that were wrong

315
00:11:40,764 --> 00:11:42,125
with that, we can you know, because that's

316
00:11:42,125 --> 00:11:43,164
the thing. It's like a little bit like

317
00:11:43,164 --> 00:11:43,824
the constitution.

318
00:11:44,524 --> 00:11:46,684
Obviously, this is, you know, superior to that

319
00:11:46,684 --> 00:11:48,365
too, but there's elements of that that we're

320
00:11:48,365 --> 00:11:49,884
saying, okay. Well, they got that part right.

321
00:11:49,884 --> 00:11:51,644
They got that all men are created equal

322
00:11:51,644 --> 00:11:53,899
part right, but then they established a government

323
00:11:53,899 --> 00:11:56,139
that kinda contradicted that. And it's like, okay.

324
00:11:56,139 --> 00:11:58,220
They got the abolished slavery part right, but

325
00:11:58,220 --> 00:11:59,899
they only abolished a small part of it,

326
00:11:59,899 --> 00:12:01,340
and they've done it under the authority of

327
00:12:01,340 --> 00:12:03,820
what essentially are slave owners. So, you know,

328
00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:05,679
we just do it right. We we abolish

329
00:12:05,899 --> 00:12:07,574
slavery, but we do it, you know, in

330
00:12:07,574 --> 00:12:10,054
its fullest sense, and we do it through

331
00:12:10,054 --> 00:12:11,975
a peace agreement rather than any kind of

332
00:12:11,975 --> 00:12:13,034
top down authority.

333
00:12:13,414 --> 00:12:15,014
Mhmm. And for those that didn't hear me

334
00:12:15,014 --> 00:12:17,174
mention the beginning, NAP is the nonaggression principle

335
00:12:17,174 --> 00:12:19,014
is what he was mentioning guiding the whole

336
00:12:19,014 --> 00:12:20,694
the whole point. And so, you know, it's

337
00:12:20,694 --> 00:12:21,434
it's a

338
00:12:21,980 --> 00:12:24,220
it's definitely it's it's I see, you know,

339
00:12:24,220 --> 00:12:26,059
your general point is in in the question

340
00:12:26,059 --> 00:12:27,899
being implementation. This is something that is sort

341
00:12:27,899 --> 00:12:29,419
of takes on its own. You know, it's

342
00:12:29,419 --> 00:12:31,500
already inherent in all of us. Everybody as

343
00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:33,179
as you make clear and and we'll get

344
00:12:33,179 --> 00:12:34,620
to in a second, the the the gray

345
00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:35,980
area versus the black and the white. Like,

346
00:12:35,980 --> 00:12:38,154
it's it's inherent reality. Like, you know violence

347
00:12:38,154 --> 00:12:39,434
when you see it. It's very clear. Now

348
00:12:39,434 --> 00:12:41,035
there are nuances and we can get into

349
00:12:41,035 --> 00:12:42,795
that. Like, there there's areas where it might

350
00:12:42,795 --> 00:12:46,394
become questionable or debatable. But when you punch

351
00:12:46,394 --> 00:12:48,075
someone in the face, no one's gonna debate

352
00:12:48,075 --> 00:12:50,075
whether or not that was violence. Right? Or

353
00:12:50,075 --> 00:12:52,075
or or yelling loudly, whatever. Like, there are

354
00:12:52,075 --> 00:12:53,769
those lines. And so it's interesting. This is

355
00:12:53,769 --> 00:12:55,710
already something that we already all deal with.

356
00:12:55,850 --> 00:12:56,970
Just from what I'm getting in my mind

357
00:12:56,970 --> 00:12:58,730
from what you described, the only moment that

358
00:12:58,730 --> 00:13:01,370
the government law the way it is today

359
00:13:01,370 --> 00:13:01,870
becomes

360
00:13:02,170 --> 00:13:03,769
it it ultimately always ends up in a

361
00:13:03,769 --> 00:13:05,690
place where it's no longer about whether it's

362
00:13:05,690 --> 00:13:07,290
right or wrong or moral, but rather that's

363
00:13:07,290 --> 00:13:09,314
the nuance of the government abuse of it

364
00:13:09,314 --> 00:13:11,074
and using it for their benefit or control

365
00:13:11,074 --> 00:13:11,814
of the population.

366
00:13:12,274 --> 00:13:14,115
So going back to the implementation point. Right?

367
00:13:14,115 --> 00:13:15,875
So here we are with this discussion again

368
00:13:15,875 --> 00:13:17,714
saying that let's just say you get a

369
00:13:17,714 --> 00:13:19,475
universal I mean, I know this is unlikely

370
00:13:19,475 --> 00:13:20,914
because I know I I do wanna get

371
00:13:20,914 --> 00:13:23,250
into the some degree some agree, some don't.

372
00:13:23,250 --> 00:13:25,250
But let's say the world universally goes, I

373
00:13:25,250 --> 00:13:27,490
agree. We all want this. We agree that

374
00:13:27,490 --> 00:13:29,590
nonaggression principle is the guiding force.

375
00:13:29,970 --> 00:13:31,970
How how do you implement this going forward?

376
00:13:31,970 --> 00:13:33,330
And I think you already answered it, but

377
00:13:33,330 --> 00:13:34,850
kind of for those that are wondering how

378
00:13:34,850 --> 00:13:36,745
this becomes, like, day one, what would you

379
00:13:36,745 --> 00:13:37,485
argue happens?

380
00:13:37,944 --> 00:13:40,105
Well, the the key is about formalizing it

381
00:13:40,105 --> 00:13:42,024
because that's what I mean, again and looking

382
00:13:42,024 --> 00:13:43,704
back to the abolition of slavery as an

383
00:13:43,704 --> 00:13:45,865
example of this, it was formalized. You know,

384
00:13:45,865 --> 00:13:47,625
before it was abolished I mean, again, it

385
00:13:47,625 --> 00:13:50,129
wasn't abolished worldwide in one click. You know?

386
00:13:50,129 --> 00:13:52,290
I mean, the the British Empire abolished it

387
00:13:52,290 --> 00:13:54,690
before America did, and and and then peace

388
00:13:54,690 --> 00:13:57,889
agreements between nations, you know, sprung up after

389
00:13:57,889 --> 00:13:58,389
that.

390
00:13:58,769 --> 00:14:00,370
So, obviously, all was all done, you know,

391
00:14:00,370 --> 00:14:02,090
like, in one fell swoop. But the fact

392
00:14:02,090 --> 00:14:03,490
of the matter is is when it was

393
00:14:03,490 --> 00:14:03,990
abolished,

394
00:14:04,315 --> 00:14:05,915
it was done in a formal way. You

395
00:14:05,915 --> 00:14:07,514
know, there were many people speaking out again

396
00:14:07,675 --> 00:14:09,274
and this is the difference as well between

397
00:14:09,274 --> 00:14:11,355
what we're doing today where, you know, we've

398
00:14:11,355 --> 00:14:14,154
got people that speak out against statism and

399
00:14:14,154 --> 00:14:16,169
against the crimes of the government and stuff.

400
00:14:16,730 --> 00:14:18,809
But what we haven't done is actually abolish

401
00:14:18,809 --> 00:14:20,889
what they're doing, and and that's the kind

402
00:14:20,889 --> 00:14:22,889
of hurdle that we need to overcome. But

403
00:14:22,889 --> 00:14:25,389
it really is about formalizing our understanding,

404
00:14:25,690 --> 00:14:28,169
about having it, you know, written in stone

405
00:14:28,169 --> 00:14:30,254
for one of another word. But but, you

406
00:14:30,254 --> 00:14:31,855
know, because it's all very well having this

407
00:14:31,855 --> 00:14:34,674
kind of loosey goosey understanding of, yeah, everybody

408
00:14:34,735 --> 00:14:38,034
owns themselves. But if there's no formalized agreement,

409
00:14:38,815 --> 00:14:40,975
that actually that's when that's when governments can

410
00:14:40,975 --> 00:14:42,735
step in and kind of take advantage of

411
00:14:42,735 --> 00:14:45,059
the ignorance, take advantage of the ambiguity. So

412
00:14:45,139 --> 00:14:46,580
that's why I wanna kind of have it

413
00:14:46,580 --> 00:14:48,259
set and say, look. This is what the

414
00:14:48,259 --> 00:14:50,899
law is. You own you, and I own

415
00:14:50,899 --> 00:14:52,259
me. And that's how you know, we can

416
00:14:52,259 --> 00:14:54,580
get into the details and and and, also,

417
00:14:54,580 --> 00:14:55,700
we need to get into what we do

418
00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:58,120
about the gray areas, but the that basic

419
00:14:58,259 --> 00:14:58,759
principle

420
00:14:59,245 --> 00:15:01,085
is there. You know, it's like like America

421
00:15:01,085 --> 00:15:03,565
has its constitution that says, you know, this

422
00:15:03,565 --> 00:15:04,845
is what you can do and this is

423
00:15:04,845 --> 00:15:05,745
what you can't.

424
00:15:06,045 --> 00:15:07,665
There's still gonna be, you know,

425
00:15:08,445 --> 00:15:10,764
disagreements over interpretation, which is why you need

426
00:15:10,764 --> 00:15:13,004
to be as explicit as possible. And the

427
00:15:13,004 --> 00:15:15,620
more complicated law gets, the more it's easier

428
00:15:15,679 --> 00:15:17,920
to manipulate and pervert and corrupt. So that's

429
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,840
why it has to be really, really simple

430
00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:21,759
and just say there's there's no there's no

431
00:15:21,759 --> 00:15:24,559
ruler. There's only one, if you want, ruler,

432
00:15:24,559 --> 00:15:26,865
which is this principle. That's the only ruler.

433
00:15:27,105 --> 00:15:29,424
And the the validity of that just comes

434
00:15:29,424 --> 00:15:31,904
from subjective moral truth, which can be, you

435
00:15:31,904 --> 00:15:33,904
know, scrutinized, but it always comes back to

436
00:15:33,904 --> 00:15:35,424
the same thing because anybody that would wanna

437
00:15:35,424 --> 00:15:37,264
complain about this law being applied to you

438
00:15:37,264 --> 00:15:40,004
know, like, a rapist couldn't make a coherent

439
00:15:40,065 --> 00:15:41,850
argument that they have the right to rape.

440
00:15:42,089 --> 00:15:43,289
Mhmm. You know what I mean? That you

441
00:15:43,289 --> 00:15:44,569
know, because it would just come back on

442
00:15:44,569 --> 00:15:46,569
itself or what you know? So this is

443
00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:48,429
like I said, there's a certain undeniability

444
00:15:48,809 --> 00:15:50,730
to cell phone shit. I do think it

445
00:15:50,730 --> 00:15:52,409
strikes at the heart of what most people

446
00:15:52,409 --> 00:15:54,584
kind of understand even if they don't, like,

447
00:15:54,584 --> 00:15:57,164
articulate it in an in an intellectual level.

448
00:15:57,225 --> 00:15:58,824
You know, we most of us those of

449
00:15:58,824 --> 00:16:01,384
us that aren't overt criminals do already treat

450
00:16:01,384 --> 00:16:03,704
each other interpersonally that way. Right. You know,

451
00:16:03,704 --> 00:16:05,144
there seems to be a disconnect when it

452
00:16:05,144 --> 00:16:06,845
comes to government for a lot of people.

453
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,120
But as, you know, people, how we treat

454
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,660
each other, you know, individually,

455
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,879
that is how most of us behave anyway.

456
00:16:12,879 --> 00:16:14,420
So I think this I think,

457
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:16,240
you know, for all the things that are

458
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:17,840
against us, the things that are on our

459
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,779
side is the, like, the undeniability

460
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,875
to it. You know, once it comes under

461
00:16:21,875 --> 00:16:23,814
scrutiny, it just becomes stronger because,

462
00:16:24,274 --> 00:16:25,875
you know, people try to poke holes in.

463
00:16:25,875 --> 00:16:27,574
They realize there's no holes. You know?

464
00:16:28,034 --> 00:16:30,434
In the what block light areas. Right? Then

465
00:16:30,434 --> 00:16:31,875
we agree on that. Like, that's the but

466
00:16:31,875 --> 00:16:33,314
but the and the nuance is what we'll

467
00:16:33,314 --> 00:16:34,889
get into is that you can create a

468
00:16:35,049 --> 00:16:36,570
conversation where someone's gonna go, well, I think

469
00:16:36,570 --> 00:16:38,009
it is. I think it's not. And that's

470
00:16:38,009 --> 00:16:39,850
where it gets in. And, again, I think

471
00:16:39,850 --> 00:16:42,170
your information make explains it very clearly how

472
00:16:42,170 --> 00:16:44,090
that would just be an inherent reality. But

473
00:16:44,090 --> 00:16:45,769
to the point though, like, what's the hurdle?

474
00:16:45,769 --> 00:16:47,210
What is the day one look like? So

475
00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:49,254
now we've done that. Like, so you're but

476
00:16:49,254 --> 00:16:50,774
what is the let's get into the details.

477
00:16:50,774 --> 00:16:53,095
So what is the the absolute agreement? How

478
00:16:53,095 --> 00:16:55,174
does that work? What would that become? Is

479
00:16:55,174 --> 00:16:58,375
that just our individual choices? Since there's no

480
00:16:58,375 --> 00:17:01,415
status government mindset, how do you formalize that

481
00:17:01,415 --> 00:17:03,654
amongst individuals or communities? Like, how does that

482
00:17:03,654 --> 00:17:04,109
begin?

483
00:17:04,670 --> 00:17:06,109
Right. So, I mean, this is where the

484
00:17:06,109 --> 00:17:08,349
whole three part agreement kinda comes into play

485
00:17:08,349 --> 00:17:10,429
because, initially, when I was first sort of

486
00:17:10,429 --> 00:17:12,429
conceived this idea, it was, well, you know,

487
00:17:12,429 --> 00:17:14,690
the kind of simple logical progression.

488
00:17:15,630 --> 00:17:17,230
The first few steps of which is just

489
00:17:17,230 --> 00:17:19,470
what all libertarians take upon themselves of, you

490
00:17:19,470 --> 00:17:22,294
know, self ownership. The only justifiable force is

491
00:17:22,294 --> 00:17:24,134
that which protects rights and not that which

492
00:17:24,134 --> 00:17:25,034
violates it.

493
00:17:25,575 --> 00:17:27,494
But then from there, you realize that the

494
00:17:27,494 --> 00:17:29,894
only justifiably enforceable law is the map. And

495
00:17:29,894 --> 00:17:31,575
from there, you should then realize the only

496
00:17:31,575 --> 00:17:34,190
way to establish this principle as law without

497
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:35,869
contradicting it is to do it through a

498
00:17:35,869 --> 00:17:37,630
peace agreement. So those kind of things kind

499
00:17:37,630 --> 00:17:39,150
of follow on from there. But then the

500
00:17:39,150 --> 00:17:40,750
other thing that you kind of brought up

501
00:17:40,750 --> 00:17:42,509
there is the issue of the gray areas.

502
00:17:42,509 --> 00:17:44,990
And, okay, well, what about differing interpretations? Even

503
00:17:44,990 --> 00:17:46,930
if we all agree on this basic principle,

504
00:17:47,515 --> 00:17:49,595
what what what happens to the gray areas?

505
00:17:49,595 --> 00:17:51,454
And there are no matter how,

506
00:17:52,315 --> 00:17:53,515
and I think we can do a lot

507
00:17:53,515 --> 00:17:55,115
of work to cut through and then to

508
00:17:55,115 --> 00:17:57,355
identify black and white where people think there's

509
00:17:57,355 --> 00:17:59,674
gray. But no matter how good a job

510
00:17:59,674 --> 00:18:01,674
you do with that, there's still gonna be

511
00:18:01,674 --> 00:18:03,720
gray areas. There's still gonna be fuzzy edges.

512
00:18:03,779 --> 00:18:05,779
And one of the kind of, metaphors I

513
00:18:05,779 --> 00:18:07,380
like to use is the desert and the

514
00:18:07,380 --> 00:18:09,700
grassland. I say, look, you know, imagine, you

515
00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:11,140
know, you've got a big load of desert

516
00:18:11,140 --> 00:18:12,500
and you've got a big load of grassland.

517
00:18:12,500 --> 00:18:14,339
If you walk from one to the other,

518
00:18:14,339 --> 00:18:16,259
there's gonna be an area in between where

519
00:18:16,259 --> 00:18:18,794
one slowly becomes the other that's that's kinda

520
00:18:18,794 --> 00:18:20,075
hard to define. You know, if you're in

521
00:18:20,075 --> 00:18:21,194
the middle of the desert and you've only

522
00:18:21,194 --> 00:18:22,554
got sand around you, you know you're the

523
00:18:22,554 --> 00:18:24,234
desert. That's nice and simple. And if you're

524
00:18:24,234 --> 00:18:25,835
in the middle of the grassland, you know,

525
00:18:25,835 --> 00:18:27,274
likewise. But if you're in that kind of

526
00:18:27,274 --> 00:18:28,714
area in between where it's a bit arid,

527
00:18:28,714 --> 00:18:30,315
it's not quite grassland, but it's not a

528
00:18:30,315 --> 00:18:31,595
full desert because there's still a bit of

529
00:18:31,595 --> 00:18:33,830
struggle, you know, That's when things kinda get

530
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:35,269
get hard to play. And I think we've

531
00:18:35,269 --> 00:18:36,789
got a very simple approach to that, which

532
00:18:36,789 --> 00:18:38,390
is still objective because this is the point.

533
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:39,529
We have to be objective

534
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:42,070
Mhmm. From, you know, from this thing. So

535
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:43,510
the way we we approach and this is

536
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:44,950
sorry. I'm just I don't mean to be

537
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:46,535
all over the place. Go back to the

538
00:18:46,535 --> 00:18:48,535
three part piece agreement. Is part one is

539
00:18:48,535 --> 00:18:49,515
the basic agreement.

540
00:18:49,974 --> 00:18:51,734
Part two is what I call lines in

541
00:18:51,734 --> 00:18:53,275
the sand where we

542
00:18:53,654 --> 00:18:55,575
separate the black and white from the gray

543
00:18:55,575 --> 00:18:57,414
area, and we kind of draw this line

544
00:18:57,414 --> 00:18:59,549
because we can we can accept that because

545
00:18:59,549 --> 00:19:01,309
we're all equal individuals, none of us has

546
00:19:01,309 --> 00:19:02,750
the authority to say, well, this is the

547
00:19:02,750 --> 00:19:03,649
correct interpretation.

548
00:19:03,950 --> 00:19:06,210
Right. Right. So we can accept differing interpretations,

549
00:19:06,349 --> 00:19:08,109
but there has got to be a limit

550
00:19:08,109 --> 00:19:08,769
of tolerance

551
00:19:09,230 --> 00:19:10,450
to the differing interpretations.

552
00:19:11,069 --> 00:19:12,625
We can't let people take it to the

553
00:19:12,625 --> 00:19:14,464
extremes where they're actually encroaching into the black

554
00:19:14,464 --> 00:19:16,464
and white and calling it gray area. Mhmm.

555
00:19:16,464 --> 00:19:18,704
But with that in mind, our approach would

556
00:19:18,704 --> 00:19:20,384
be to take and this is the same

557
00:19:20,384 --> 00:19:22,384
approach that we already take with criminal law

558
00:19:22,384 --> 00:19:23,984
today. Just like how you have to have

559
00:19:23,984 --> 00:19:25,684
a beyond reasonable doubt

560
00:19:26,049 --> 00:19:27,750
that someone committed a crime

561
00:19:28,130 --> 00:19:30,369
before you can punish them. Because if you

562
00:19:30,369 --> 00:19:32,769
don't have that, you're then guilty of potentially

563
00:19:32,769 --> 00:19:33,269
recklessly

564
00:19:33,650 --> 00:19:35,890
imprisoning somebody, you know, who's innocent and all

565
00:19:35,890 --> 00:19:36,390
that.

566
00:19:37,250 --> 00:19:38,789
So by doing that,

567
00:19:39,434 --> 00:19:41,515
that kind of, you know, obviously, polices it.

568
00:19:41,515 --> 00:19:43,434
So we we take the same approach to

569
00:19:43,434 --> 00:19:45,774
the principle itself. So is this a nonaggression

570
00:19:45,914 --> 00:19:48,494
principle violation? Well, if we have a beyond

571
00:19:48,634 --> 00:19:51,034
reasonable doubt certainty of it, then we are

572
00:19:51,034 --> 00:19:52,940
justified in enforcing it. So So if I

573
00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:55,099
can say beyond reasonable doubt, not only that

574
00:19:55,099 --> 00:19:57,200
you committed the crime like murder or whatever,

575
00:19:57,259 --> 00:19:59,180
but if it's something that but that that

576
00:19:59,180 --> 00:20:01,500
what you could or the crime you committed

577
00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:03,259
is actually a crime, that it is actually

578
00:20:03,259 --> 00:20:05,339
a non aggression principle violation. And if I

579
00:20:05,339 --> 00:20:08,565
don't have that beyond reasonable doubt certainty, then

580
00:20:08,565 --> 00:20:10,424
the force that I would apply to you

581
00:20:10,724 --> 00:20:13,125
would itself be criminal. And this is the

582
00:20:13,125 --> 00:20:15,704
kind of self policing element of this because

583
00:20:15,845 --> 00:20:18,164
if we establish this principle as law and

584
00:20:18,164 --> 00:20:20,884
you've got, say, competing courts and competing law

585
00:20:20,884 --> 00:20:22,585
enforcements and what have you,

586
00:20:22,909 --> 00:20:25,630
the best guard against, like, a kangaroo court

587
00:20:25,630 --> 00:20:26,130
system

588
00:20:26,509 --> 00:20:28,750
is the fact that while the law is

589
00:20:28,750 --> 00:20:29,250
rigid,

590
00:20:29,789 --> 00:20:32,190
the the the right to enforce it is

591
00:20:32,190 --> 00:20:34,509
something that belongs to everybody. So you can

592
00:20:34,509 --> 00:20:35,650
have competing agencies.

593
00:20:36,025 --> 00:20:37,704
And because one of the things that guarantees

594
00:20:37,704 --> 00:20:38,605
corruption today

595
00:20:38,904 --> 00:20:40,825
and why you have true kind of kangaroo

596
00:20:40,825 --> 00:20:42,664
courts through government is the fact that you

597
00:20:42,664 --> 00:20:45,304
have, like, qualified immunity and prosecute your immunity

598
00:20:45,304 --> 00:20:47,224
and all these things that basically mean that

599
00:20:47,224 --> 00:20:48,285
there's no accountability

600
00:20:48,984 --> 00:20:52,329
for miscarriages of justice. Whereas if you have

601
00:20:52,329 --> 00:20:54,169
other courts that can take you to court

602
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:56,009
because they've seen that you've done some sort

603
00:20:56,009 --> 00:20:58,409
of kangaroo system and imprisoned somebody, they can

604
00:20:58,409 --> 00:21:01,289
then prosecute you for kidnapping and imprisonment and

605
00:21:01,289 --> 00:21:02,809
all the rest of it, which you would

606
00:21:02,809 --> 00:21:04,924
then be guilty of if you didn't meet

607
00:21:04,924 --> 00:21:07,085
that burden of proof that we've already discussed

608
00:21:07,085 --> 00:21:09,404
about being beyond reasonable doubt. And that's and

609
00:21:09,404 --> 00:21:10,924
that goes back to drawing this line in

610
00:21:10,924 --> 00:21:12,445
the sand. So that's what part two of

611
00:21:12,445 --> 00:21:14,765
the three part agreement is about. It's about,

612
00:21:14,765 --> 00:21:16,285
yeah, it's about drawing that line in the

613
00:21:16,285 --> 00:21:17,964
sand and say, okay. There is a fuzzy

614
00:21:17,964 --> 00:21:19,720
edge. But like with the desert and the

615
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,799
grassland, we don't have to lose the definition

616
00:21:21,799 --> 00:21:23,799
of a desert just because there's a fuzzy

617
00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:25,640
edge between desert and grassland. We can still

618
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,259
say, okay. When there's only sand,

619
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,240
we know we're in the desert. And the

620
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:30,920
same with the non aggression principle. If it's

621
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,839
definitely a violation, if we can definitely say

622
00:21:32,839 --> 00:21:35,065
that, you know, you're encroaching on my right,

623
00:21:35,065 --> 00:21:37,484
then I can stop you. If it's debatable,

624
00:21:38,025 --> 00:21:38,525
then,

625
00:21:38,984 --> 00:21:41,625
basically, I can't use force against you. And

626
00:21:41,625 --> 00:21:43,384
when there's a kind of gray area where,

627
00:21:43,384 --> 00:21:44,904
okay, well, there's a decision that has to

628
00:21:44,904 --> 00:21:46,345
be made one way or the other because

629
00:21:46,345 --> 00:21:48,184
sometimes it's not a simple case of inaction

630
00:21:48,184 --> 00:21:51,016
is good enough, Right. Then you have a

631
00:21:51,016 --> 00:21:53,477
self ownership answer as well. Because, for example,

632
00:21:53,477 --> 00:21:55,938
if there's, like, an encroachment of personal space,

633
00:21:55,938 --> 00:21:58,400
this gray area, well, who came to who?

634
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,861
You you can still fall back onto first

635
00:22:00,861 --> 00:22:03,174
use principles. Because if we're both equal, then

636
00:22:03,174 --> 00:22:05,115
the person who approached the other person

637
00:22:05,575 --> 00:22:07,654
can't complain about the invasion of personal space.

638
00:22:07,654 --> 00:22:09,515
Right. But the person who's been approached

639
00:22:09,815 --> 00:22:10,474
can do.

640
00:22:10,775 --> 00:22:12,535
A similar thing, like, with children, like, we

641
00:22:12,535 --> 00:22:14,295
have, like, age of consent, and you've obviously

642
00:22:14,295 --> 00:22:15,894
got you know, you can have a clear

643
00:22:15,894 --> 00:22:18,880
understanding that children can't consent, but competent adults

644
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:19,940
can, and that obviously

645
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,359
segregates things like, you know, legal contracts or

646
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,619
or consenting to sex and things like that.

647
00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:27,519
But there's obviously, again, a gray area in

648
00:22:27,519 --> 00:22:29,460
between. So what do you do about that?

649
00:22:30,285 --> 00:22:32,365
Who has the authority to make that gray

650
00:22:32,365 --> 00:22:34,525
area decision? Well, in the case of children,

651
00:22:34,525 --> 00:22:36,205
it would be parents. And, again, that's not

652
00:22:36,205 --> 00:22:37,884
an arbitrary, I just think that's a good

653
00:22:37,884 --> 00:22:39,805
idea kind of thing. That comes back to

654
00:22:39,805 --> 00:22:41,025
self ownership because,

655
00:22:41,404 --> 00:22:44,059
like, I'm responsible for my child because I

656
00:22:44,059 --> 00:22:45,740
brought them into the world based on self

657
00:22:45,740 --> 00:22:47,419
ownership. You know? Like, if I push someone

658
00:22:47,419 --> 00:22:49,339
in the water and they drown, I'm to

659
00:22:49,339 --> 00:22:51,419
blame for them drowning. And if I bring

660
00:22:51,419 --> 00:22:53,500
a child into this world, that's obviously you

661
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:54,319
know, they can't,

662
00:22:56,264 --> 00:22:58,264
what's the word, provide for themselves and survive

663
00:22:58,264 --> 00:22:59,784
on their own. So if you if you

664
00:22:59,784 --> 00:23:00,744
brought a child into the world and then

665
00:23:00,744 --> 00:23:03,065
just didn't look after it, then it started

666
00:23:03,065 --> 00:23:04,504
if you would be guilty of of because

667
00:23:04,504 --> 00:23:05,784
you put it into peril. So there's a

668
00:23:05,784 --> 00:23:07,964
duty of care that parents owe their children,

669
00:23:08,529 --> 00:23:10,789
again, based on self ownership. And

670
00:23:11,329 --> 00:23:14,529
that duty of care also gives them certain

671
00:23:14,529 --> 00:23:15,029
rights

672
00:23:15,569 --> 00:23:18,130
with how they how they fulfill that duty

673
00:23:18,130 --> 00:23:20,450
of care. They're they're basically the rightful guardians.

674
00:23:20,450 --> 00:23:22,450
I'm the rightful guardian over my child, which

675
00:23:22,450 --> 00:23:24,544
means when it comes to the gray areas

676
00:23:24,684 --> 00:23:27,085
of of raising that child, including when I

677
00:23:27,085 --> 00:23:28,924
can release them as a competent adult and

678
00:23:28,924 --> 00:23:30,845
when I still have to hold on to

679
00:23:30,845 --> 00:23:32,765
them as a as a parent who's responsible

680
00:23:32,765 --> 00:23:35,005
for them, that gray area and, again, I'm

681
00:23:35,005 --> 00:23:36,684
only talking about gray areas. I can't step

682
00:23:36,684 --> 00:23:38,220
over the black and white. But if it's

683
00:23:38,220 --> 00:23:40,380
a gray area, then it's my decision. It's

684
00:23:40,380 --> 00:23:42,380
my domain. And the reason for that, again,

685
00:23:42,380 --> 00:23:44,319
it's subjective and comes back to self ownership

686
00:23:44,460 --> 00:23:46,619
because anyone who'd want to step in and

687
00:23:46,619 --> 00:23:48,700
say, oh, you know, like, I'm abusing my

688
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:51,375
child by abandoning it too early or,

689
00:23:52,054 --> 00:23:53,775
or, you know, or holding on to it

690
00:23:53,775 --> 00:23:55,855
too late, like, you know, like, imprisoning when

691
00:23:55,855 --> 00:23:57,555
it's actually an adult, stuff like that.

692
00:23:58,335 --> 00:24:00,894
They would need that beyond a reasonable doubt

693
00:24:00,894 --> 00:24:02,575
standard to step in and take my child

694
00:24:02,575 --> 00:24:04,255
away from me. So if it's a gray

695
00:24:04,255 --> 00:24:06,396
area, you know, like, you know and and

696
00:24:06,396 --> 00:24:08,279
and, again, I think this strikes to most

697
00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:10,397
people's common sense because if your neighbor if

698
00:24:10,397 --> 00:24:12,280
you didn't agree with how your neighbor's parent,

699
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,163
but they weren't stepping over that line of

700
00:24:14,163 --> 00:24:16,046
child abuse, then as much as you might

701
00:24:16,046 --> 00:24:17,929
disagree and as much as you might wanna

702
00:24:17,929 --> 00:24:20,565
peacefully persuade them or whatever, like, maybe they're

703
00:24:20,565 --> 00:24:23,125
overfeeding them or spoiling all the things that

704
00:24:23,125 --> 00:24:25,384
are kind of, like I say, debatable,

705
00:24:26,005 --> 00:24:27,285
then we have to say, okay. Well, they're

706
00:24:27,285 --> 00:24:28,965
the parents, so they have a higher right

707
00:24:28,965 --> 00:24:31,125
than me on how they raise their child.

708
00:24:31,125 --> 00:24:32,805
But if they step over that black and

709
00:24:32,805 --> 00:24:34,700
white line, then they're no longer acting as

710
00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:36,619
parents. They're no longer acting as guardians. And

711
00:24:36,619 --> 00:24:38,059
then we and and, again, it's the same

712
00:24:38,059 --> 00:24:39,180
with everything. So I didn't mean to go

713
00:24:39,180 --> 00:24:41,019
on there. But there's so many things it

714
00:24:41,019 --> 00:24:42,859
applies to, but then you can still find

715
00:24:42,859 --> 00:24:45,340
an objective approach even if there's not an

716
00:24:45,340 --> 00:24:47,804
objective answer. Does that make sense? Right. Totally.

717
00:24:47,804 --> 00:24:49,005
And I think this is a really important

718
00:24:49,005 --> 00:24:50,284
part. And so here's what it comes back

719
00:24:50,284 --> 00:24:51,724
to for me on this. And we still

720
00:24:51,724 --> 00:24:53,565
we we still have the part three, but

721
00:24:53,565 --> 00:24:55,424
in this this part's really important

722
00:24:55,724 --> 00:24:57,904
is that, you know, we have a circumstance

723
00:24:58,044 --> 00:24:59,724
where what you're describing, and by the way,

724
00:24:59,724 --> 00:25:02,429
I agree entirely with, is is what we're

725
00:25:02,429 --> 00:25:04,670
highlight outlining is is how it's applicable to

726
00:25:04,670 --> 00:25:07,710
the individual, right, to individual society choices, to

727
00:25:07,710 --> 00:25:10,509
my versus you, my neighbor. But and this

728
00:25:10,509 --> 00:25:11,869
is where I'm coming from with it. There's

729
00:25:11,869 --> 00:25:13,309
a lot of good ideas like this out

730
00:25:13,309 --> 00:25:15,390
there that I will I support, but I

731
00:25:15,390 --> 00:25:17,945
I still find it. I don't see where

732
00:25:17,945 --> 00:25:20,025
and how this becomes real with the way

733
00:25:20,025 --> 00:25:21,384
our system is today, which is why I

734
00:25:21,384 --> 00:25:21,884
appreciate

735
00:25:22,184 --> 00:25:23,644
what your pro your,

736
00:25:24,025 --> 00:25:25,705
outline because I really do think this has

737
00:25:25,705 --> 00:25:28,025
merit in this regard is it's easy to

738
00:25:28,025 --> 00:25:29,705
understand. But what I would like to flesh

739
00:25:29,705 --> 00:25:31,539
out is how to get it beyond the

740
00:25:31,539 --> 00:25:34,099
government that's there now or, hypothetically, what we

741
00:25:34,099 --> 00:25:35,619
can get into more in the Nuance maybe

742
00:25:35,619 --> 00:25:37,220
right now is that, like, we do it

743
00:25:37,220 --> 00:25:39,380
here, but then that that group right next

744
00:25:39,380 --> 00:25:41,140
door doesn't care about our mindset. You know?

745
00:25:41,140 --> 00:25:43,059
And so how do we like, the pointed

746
00:25:43,059 --> 00:25:45,299
question would be who decides in the analogy

747
00:25:45,299 --> 00:25:47,565
you were just making? What court? What entity?

748
00:25:47,565 --> 00:25:49,484
What power structure? Right? How do you figure

749
00:25:49,484 --> 00:25:51,005
that out? K. Is that is that something

750
00:25:51,005 --> 00:25:52,845
you formulated, or is this still on the,

751
00:25:53,325 --> 00:25:55,724
personal part? Well, to clarify the question a

752
00:25:55,724 --> 00:25:56,924
little bit for me so when you say

753
00:25:56,924 --> 00:25:58,890
who decides, what do you mean precisely? We

754
00:25:58,890 --> 00:26:00,650
come to the the analogy we're just laying

755
00:26:00,650 --> 00:26:01,930
out about, you know, any one of the

756
00:26:01,930 --> 00:26:03,769
things you laid out, the neighbor, the child,

757
00:26:03,769 --> 00:26:05,609
whatever. And it comes into one of those

758
00:26:05,609 --> 00:26:07,609
inevitable gray areas, which will be there in

759
00:26:07,609 --> 00:26:09,849
any circumstance. Even if it's not gray to

760
00:26:09,849 --> 00:26:11,529
me, maybe somebody else disagrees on what's the

761
00:26:11,529 --> 00:26:13,230
gray area. Right? There there will be disagreement.

762
00:26:13,484 --> 00:26:15,244
And so suddenly now you've got one side

763
00:26:15,244 --> 00:26:17,164
saying that's a you know, they violated the

764
00:26:17,164 --> 00:26:19,025
law. The other side saying, no. I haven't.

765
00:26:19,325 --> 00:26:20,065
Who decides?

766
00:26:20,605 --> 00:26:22,045
Well, you would you would have to prove

767
00:26:22,045 --> 00:26:23,244
your case, and you would have to prove

768
00:26:23,244 --> 00:26:25,744
it beyond a reasonable Who? Sorry. Go on.

769
00:26:25,804 --> 00:26:27,565
No. To to who would be the person

770
00:26:27,565 --> 00:26:29,640
you're proving that case to? What power structure?

771
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,240
What Well, well, this is the well, this

772
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,160
is the point because it could be anybody

773
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,400
that would challenge you. So so this is

774
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,660
the thing. There's no, like, there's no particular

775
00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:40,119
person that has this divine right. Right. Just,

776
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:41,240
you know, it's like when they say who

777
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,234
would enforce this law? Well, anybody could. Now

778
00:26:44,234 --> 00:26:45,835
one of the ways so so, like, for

779
00:26:45,835 --> 00:26:47,535
example, if you had some kind of kangaroo

780
00:26:47,595 --> 00:26:48,954
court and you and you thought, well, that's

781
00:26:48,954 --> 00:26:50,875
a miscarriage of justice, then you could hire

782
00:26:50,875 --> 00:26:52,795
another court to to take them. And if

783
00:26:52,795 --> 00:26:54,154
they feel that they've got a good enough

784
00:26:54,154 --> 00:26:56,555
case that there wasn't a miscarriage of justice,

785
00:26:56,555 --> 00:26:58,154
then they would step in and use force

786
00:26:58,154 --> 00:27:01,049
as a more competent law enforcement that doesn't

787
00:27:01,049 --> 00:27:03,529
have kangaroo court systems. I mean, obviously, there's

788
00:27:03,529 --> 00:27:04,650
a certain degree of,

789
00:27:05,049 --> 00:27:07,450
free market meritocracy that's gonna be applied to

790
00:27:07,450 --> 00:27:09,930
all these courts with regards to you know,

791
00:27:09,930 --> 00:27:12,410
the kangaroo courts are gonna struggle in many

792
00:27:12,410 --> 00:27:15,154
ways because there's gonna be, you know, more

793
00:27:15,154 --> 00:27:17,474
legitimate courts that are actually following these laws

794
00:27:17,474 --> 00:27:20,434
more faithfully Right. That will just prosecute them

795
00:27:20,434 --> 00:27:22,595
for being criminals, you know, for imprisoning people

796
00:27:22,595 --> 00:27:24,595
falsely and you know? Just jumping really quickly.

797
00:27:24,595 --> 00:27:25,875
So that this is this is exactly what

798
00:27:25,875 --> 00:27:27,315
I'm getting at is that so that's in

799
00:27:27,315 --> 00:27:29,394
the hypothetical world in the future where this

800
00:27:29,394 --> 00:27:29,730
exists.

801
00:27:30,210 --> 00:27:31,809
So I'm saying, like, day one right now.

802
00:27:31,809 --> 00:27:32,869
Like, now together.

803
00:27:33,250 --> 00:27:34,690
Yeah. Right? And this is and this is

804
00:27:34,690 --> 00:27:36,450
in no way meant to invalidate the idea.

805
00:27:36,450 --> 00:27:37,970
I think this is exactly where we should

806
00:27:37,970 --> 00:27:40,369
be going. It's about working together to figure

807
00:27:40,369 --> 00:27:42,049
out how we implement this. Right? It's just

808
00:27:42,049 --> 00:27:43,569
like, that's my issue is it's like right

809
00:27:43,569 --> 00:27:45,714
now, you've got the government that in no

810
00:27:45,714 --> 00:27:47,234
way is going to allow this. And maybe

811
00:27:47,234 --> 00:27:48,515
this is getting a little ahead. Like, we're

812
00:27:48,515 --> 00:27:50,035
for more much more we could talk about,

813
00:27:50,035 --> 00:27:51,474
but I this is where my mind always

814
00:27:51,474 --> 00:27:53,154
goes to is how do we get past

815
00:27:53,154 --> 00:27:54,855
the power structure that's currently there.

816
00:27:55,394 --> 00:27:57,315
And and back to that point specifically is,

817
00:27:57,315 --> 00:27:58,295
you know, so I

818
00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:00,119
can decide that I can you know, we

819
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:01,799
let's even say the group around us can

820
00:28:01,799 --> 00:28:03,639
collectively go, oh, wait. I think that this

821
00:28:03,639 --> 00:28:05,559
person's right. And that's kinda what you're saying

822
00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:06,679
is that would be sort of the the

823
00:28:06,679 --> 00:28:09,480
societal kind of moral guiding guidance. But then

824
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,480
what if the power structure that exists comes

825
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,065
and says, nope. That's a that's a against

826
00:28:13,065 --> 00:28:15,144
our US government law or whatever. Like, how

827
00:28:15,144 --> 00:28:16,505
do you get beyond that now? Maybe the

828
00:28:16,505 --> 00:28:17,944
answer is we don't know. You know, but

829
00:28:17,944 --> 00:28:19,544
I I was curious if you had thought

830
00:28:19,544 --> 00:28:21,865
into, like, how this becomes real day one

831
00:28:21,865 --> 00:28:24,269
kind of idea. Yeah. Well yeah. I mean,

832
00:28:24,430 --> 00:28:26,509
it's I mean, obviously, there's got to be

833
00:28:26,509 --> 00:28:28,670
a tipping point to actually enact this. But,

834
00:28:28,670 --> 00:28:30,830
again, I I draw on the parallels with

835
00:28:30,830 --> 00:28:32,830
the abolition of slavery. It's like, how did

836
00:28:32,830 --> 00:28:34,430
we do it with slavery? For all the

837
00:28:34,430 --> 00:28:36,670
imperfections I've already spoken about about how we

838
00:28:36,670 --> 00:28:38,294
didn't do it properly and we didn't do

839
00:28:38,294 --> 00:28:40,474
it expansively enough, but it's the same principle.

840
00:28:40,694 --> 00:28:42,855
And because the thing is there's no point

841
00:28:42,855 --> 00:28:45,414
in my mind trying to shrink the government

842
00:28:45,414 --> 00:28:47,015
as it is or convince the government to

843
00:28:47,015 --> 00:28:48,855
reform itself or any of these kind of

844
00:28:48,855 --> 00:28:50,214
crazy notions. You know what I mean? It's

845
00:28:50,214 --> 00:28:51,929
like what you need to do is you

846
00:28:51,929 --> 00:28:53,849
need to take the malignancy out of it

847
00:28:53,849 --> 00:28:55,210
because you we don't have to tear up

848
00:28:55,210 --> 00:28:56,970
the roads and the institutions. What we need

849
00:28:56,970 --> 00:28:58,650
to do is we need to abolish the

850
00:28:58,650 --> 00:29:02,009
criminals who rule us and overthrow them with

851
00:29:02,009 --> 00:29:04,809
this law, with this abolition of their immoral

852
00:29:04,809 --> 00:29:07,305
rule over us, and then take control of

853
00:29:07,305 --> 00:29:08,204
those institutions.

854
00:29:08,585 --> 00:29:10,105
So, I mean, I mean, there's even one

855
00:29:10,105 --> 00:29:12,365
of the articles on my site is called

856
00:29:12,585 --> 00:29:14,904
overthrowing the government with the nation's insanity. It's

857
00:29:14,904 --> 00:29:16,184
like saying, well, this is how we would

858
00:29:16,184 --> 00:29:19,065
overthrow the government, not violently by storming the

859
00:29:19,065 --> 00:29:20,970
capital and not by doing all this, but

860
00:29:20,970 --> 00:29:23,769
by convincing enough people to formally abolish the

861
00:29:23,769 --> 00:29:26,569
government as a ruling entity Okay. And force

862
00:29:26,569 --> 00:29:29,369
it to become a voluntary collective just like

863
00:29:29,369 --> 00:29:30,829
we force the cotton industry

864
00:29:31,210 --> 00:29:34,325
to become regular employees rather than slavers. You

865
00:29:34,325 --> 00:29:36,085
know? It's it's it's No. Then you just

866
00:29:36,085 --> 00:29:37,684
answered my question. If I'm if I'm hearing

867
00:29:37,684 --> 00:29:38,724
you correctly, so if,

868
00:29:39,365 --> 00:29:40,884
so you you could see a world in

869
00:29:40,884 --> 00:29:42,664
which or the next steps being

870
00:29:43,285 --> 00:29:45,765
introducing this hypothetically through a body, a governing

871
00:29:45,765 --> 00:29:47,669
body right now and allowing that to take

872
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:49,269
place. But, eventually, the goal would be to

873
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:51,269
get them out of the way entirely. But

874
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:53,029
a starting point would be to, let's just

875
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:54,890
say, from a US perspective, for my audience,

876
00:29:55,029 --> 00:29:57,829
to have congress introduce this law as the

877
00:29:57,829 --> 00:29:59,269
universal law. It may not happen, but you

878
00:29:59,349 --> 00:30:00,789
so that's what you're saying is we'd have

879
00:30:00,789 --> 00:30:02,894
to go go ahead. Go ahead. I wouldn't

880
00:30:03,055 --> 00:30:04,674
well, no. No. I I still

881
00:30:05,615 --> 00:30:07,375
I mean, you know, if if people wanna

882
00:30:07,375 --> 00:30:09,295
try that method, but that that's not what

883
00:30:09,295 --> 00:30:11,075
I'm advocating because that's still

884
00:30:11,535 --> 00:30:12,035
advocating

885
00:30:12,335 --> 00:30:14,494
their authority. I agree. What I'm what I'm

886
00:30:14,494 --> 00:30:16,079
saying is I think we need to over

887
00:30:16,159 --> 00:30:17,839
throw their authority. So I I'm not interested

888
00:30:17,839 --> 00:30:19,200
in what congress because I don't think they

889
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,519
would anyway. But, also, I don't recognize their

890
00:30:21,519 --> 00:30:22,019
authorities.

891
00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:24,240
The people need to say congress doesn't have

892
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,720
this authority. President doesn't have this authority. The

893
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,065
people need to make question. No. No. I

894
00:30:29,065 --> 00:30:30,345
just this this is now back to the

895
00:30:30,345 --> 00:30:31,945
same question of, like, okay. Well, then how

896
00:30:31,945 --> 00:30:34,265
does this become implemented if there's not some

897
00:30:34,265 --> 00:30:36,664
formal process through which we can universally say

898
00:30:36,664 --> 00:30:38,424
now this is the reality? You know? That

899
00:30:38,505 --> 00:30:39,945
that's the stopping point for me is that

900
00:30:40,025 --> 00:30:41,710
you know? Because but I look. Back to

901
00:30:41,710 --> 00:30:43,730
the individual point. I'm all about the idea

902
00:30:43,789 --> 00:30:45,470
of changing one person at a time and

903
00:30:45,470 --> 00:30:46,830
the mindset and that and I think we're

904
00:30:46,830 --> 00:30:48,509
doing that right now, quite frankly. I think

905
00:30:48,509 --> 00:30:50,430
that's why this is something that people are

906
00:30:50,430 --> 00:30:52,509
gonna be more open to. But at some

907
00:30:52,509 --> 00:30:54,110
point, there has to be that, like like

908
00:30:54,110 --> 00:30:56,055
you said, the tipping point to where it's,

909
00:30:56,134 --> 00:30:57,894
you know, it's not just us. At some

910
00:30:57,894 --> 00:31:00,215
point, it's gonna be people like us hoping

911
00:31:00,215 --> 00:31:01,735
the government doesn't step their foot on top

912
00:31:01,735 --> 00:31:03,015
of us. You know what I mean? And

913
00:31:03,015 --> 00:31:04,455
so that's, like, how do you get around

914
00:31:04,455 --> 00:31:06,295
that point? But may maybe that's just still

915
00:31:06,295 --> 00:31:07,414
what we have to take it one step

916
00:31:07,414 --> 00:31:08,535
at a time. You know? Well, no. No.

917
00:31:08,535 --> 00:31:09,815
It's a it's a valid point, and I

918
00:31:09,815 --> 00:31:12,519
understand what you're saying. But my point is

919
00:31:13,140 --> 00:31:14,740
is I agree that we need to formalize

920
00:31:14,740 --> 00:31:15,859
it. I mean, that is kind of the

921
00:31:15,859 --> 00:31:17,700
crux of what I'm saying. Yeah. But what

922
00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:19,240
I'm saying is just don't confuse

923
00:31:19,619 --> 00:31:21,779
the idea that we have to formalize this

924
00:31:21,779 --> 00:31:23,480
with the idea that we have to formalize

925
00:31:23,539 --> 00:31:25,694
it through government authority. Right. Do you see

926
00:31:25,694 --> 00:31:26,894
what I'm saying? It's like like I go

927
00:31:26,894 --> 00:31:29,054
back to the international law example. There's two

928
00:31:29,054 --> 00:31:31,615
ways to establish law. We can establish it

929
00:31:31,615 --> 00:31:32,595
under an authority,

930
00:31:32,974 --> 00:31:34,815
you know, like like, when the British Empire

931
00:31:34,815 --> 00:31:37,375
said slavery is legal, then under their domain,

932
00:31:37,375 --> 00:31:39,535
under their territory, under their authority and they

933
00:31:39,535 --> 00:31:41,909
even attacked other nations and, you know, that

934
00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:44,069
were, you know, committing what they now considered

935
00:31:44,069 --> 00:31:45,289
to be a crime.

936
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:47,349
But they've done it under their authority. They

937
00:31:47,349 --> 00:31:49,429
said slavery is wrong because we say so.

938
00:31:49,429 --> 00:31:50,009
You know?

939
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:53,349
And but later on, treaties were then applied

940
00:31:53,349 --> 00:31:56,244
through international law where it's not one government

941
00:31:56,244 --> 00:31:57,684
saying I own you and this is what

942
00:31:57,684 --> 00:31:59,365
the law is because I tell you. It's

943
00:31:59,365 --> 00:32:01,365
two governments or three or four or however

944
00:32:01,365 --> 00:32:03,204
many are all part of the international law

945
00:32:03,204 --> 00:32:03,704
agreements

946
00:32:04,085 --> 00:32:05,865
that are saying we're all equal,

947
00:32:06,244 --> 00:32:08,930
but we're gonna set as law through peace

948
00:32:08,930 --> 00:32:11,250
agreements, through treaties as the terms of peace

949
00:32:11,250 --> 00:32:12,150
between us.

950
00:32:12,529 --> 00:32:14,869
But it's still formalized. It's no less formalized.

951
00:32:15,170 --> 00:32:17,090
It's just not done under the authority of

952
00:32:17,090 --> 00:32:18,690
a ruling government. So I just wanted to

953
00:32:18,690 --> 00:32:20,609
address that point because you're right to point

954
00:32:20,609 --> 00:32:22,609
out that this needs to be formalized. You

955
00:32:22,609 --> 00:32:25,065
know? And, again, using the abolition of slavery

956
00:32:25,065 --> 00:32:25,565
example,

957
00:32:25,945 --> 00:32:27,785
there were plenty of people that weren't practicing

958
00:32:27,785 --> 00:32:29,464
it and speaking out against it and all

959
00:32:29,464 --> 00:32:30,904
that you know, there's lots of good work

960
00:32:30,904 --> 00:32:32,505
that, you know, like you say, that's akin

961
00:32:32,505 --> 00:32:34,585
to what's being done today that needs to

962
00:32:34,585 --> 00:32:36,184
be done to get to that tipping point

963
00:32:36,184 --> 00:32:38,684
where you actually have that formalized abolition.

964
00:32:39,299 --> 00:32:42,019
But that formalized abolition is what you need

965
00:32:42,019 --> 00:32:43,380
to all get to. You know what I

966
00:32:43,380 --> 00:32:45,220
mean? It's like it's not enough to just

967
00:32:45,220 --> 00:32:47,460
decry slavery. We have to abolish it. And

968
00:32:47,460 --> 00:32:49,220
it's the same with statism. It's not enough

969
00:32:49,220 --> 00:32:51,140
to just decry it. We have to abolish

970
00:32:51,140 --> 00:32:52,259
it. But you're right. We have to do

971
00:32:52,259 --> 00:32:54,485
it in a formalized way, but I would

972
00:32:54,485 --> 00:32:57,285
say not under the never never take that

973
00:32:57,285 --> 00:32:58,644
step of saying let's do it under the

974
00:32:58,644 --> 00:33:00,805
authority of government and then remove government offers

975
00:33:00,805 --> 00:33:01,305
because

976
00:33:01,605 --> 00:33:03,525
they'll they'll pervert it, and we're we're doing

977
00:33:03,525 --> 00:33:04,965
it the wrong way. It's like I say,

978
00:33:04,965 --> 00:33:06,404
we need to look at the abolition of

979
00:33:06,404 --> 00:33:06,904
slavery,

980
00:33:07,220 --> 00:33:09,140
and they've done it. There's two things wrong

981
00:33:09,140 --> 00:33:10,420
that they've done with how they've done it.

982
00:33:10,420 --> 00:33:12,039
They they it was too narrow.

983
00:33:12,420 --> 00:33:14,420
It wasn't all slavery, and it was also

984
00:33:14,420 --> 00:33:17,220
under the authority of essentially slavers rather than

985
00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:18,740
as the terms of peace group. And those

986
00:33:18,740 --> 00:33:20,225
that just so I'm just saying, let's do

987
00:33:20,225 --> 00:33:21,745
exactly what we've done with the abolition of

988
00:33:21,745 --> 00:33:25,045
slavery. We formalize this law, but we abolish

989
00:33:25,265 --> 00:33:28,085
all slavery, statism, and all that violating coercion,

990
00:33:28,465 --> 00:33:29,825
and we do it as the terms of

991
00:33:29,825 --> 00:33:32,384
a peace agreement rather under the dictates of

992
00:33:32,384 --> 00:33:34,850
some ruling authority, which would be criminal under

993
00:33:34,850 --> 00:33:36,849
this law. Yeah. And and sorry. And just

994
00:33:36,849 --> 00:33:38,529
one other thing. Yeah. And to go back

995
00:33:38,529 --> 00:33:40,450
to what this would mean. So, like, say

996
00:33:40,450 --> 00:33:42,049
this happened in England. Say I could get

997
00:33:42,049 --> 00:33:43,570
enough people in England to do this, and

998
00:33:43,570 --> 00:33:45,349
we could overthrow the UK government.

999
00:33:45,890 --> 00:33:48,265
Not a single building gets burned down. The

1000
00:33:48,265 --> 00:33:49,865
only thing that happened maybe a few people

1001
00:33:49,865 --> 00:33:52,345
might get arrested within government, but but the

1002
00:33:52,345 --> 00:33:54,684
only other thing that would really happen, everything

1003
00:33:54,744 --> 00:33:56,125
carries on. Like,

1004
00:33:56,505 --> 00:33:58,505
you wouldn't have to I wouldn't even have

1005
00:33:58,505 --> 00:34:00,825
to think about a single thing, although I'm

1006
00:34:00,825 --> 00:34:02,400
not saying we shouldn't think about these things.

1007
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:03,519
But you don't even have to think about

1008
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:05,759
a single thing on how government would shrink

1009
00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:07,779
or how institutions would shrink or disappear

1010
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:08,579
because

1011
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,880
freedom would do the rest. The market would

1012
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,260
do the rest. All of a sudden,

1013
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,739
tomorrow, you would wake up, and now

1014
00:34:15,195 --> 00:34:17,035
every tax that you are currently forced to

1015
00:34:17,035 --> 00:34:18,414
pay would now be voluntary.

1016
00:34:18,795 --> 00:34:21,675
And every institution that's now being supported through

1017
00:34:21,675 --> 00:34:24,715
those coercive taxes would either continue under a

1018
00:34:24,715 --> 00:34:27,035
voluntary system because enough people find value on

1019
00:34:27,035 --> 00:34:28,795
it, or it would die the death that

1020
00:34:28,795 --> 00:34:29,775
it should do

1021
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,739
because it's only being kept alive through coercion

1022
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,119
anyway. Does that make sense? Totally. Totally. I

1023
00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:37,199
mean, look, we're we're exactly the same mindset

1024
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:38,960
with that. What I'm trying to, you know,

1025
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:39,280
can,

1026
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:41,679
put together my mind is and I just

1027
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:43,360
think nope. What I think you just answered

1028
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:44,719
is the how of it. And so when

1029
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,375
we put this one forward then with what

1030
00:34:46,375 --> 00:34:48,215
you just highlighted then so it would you

1031
00:34:48,215 --> 00:34:49,295
could high you could say it would take

1032
00:34:49,295 --> 00:34:49,914
a form

1033
00:34:50,295 --> 00:34:52,954
of a peace agreement put forward by anybody

1034
00:34:53,015 --> 00:34:54,555
that then gets signed by

1035
00:34:54,934 --> 00:34:56,614
the majority of the population of the planet.

1036
00:34:56,614 --> 00:34:58,215
And then that gets implemented in a way

1037
00:34:58,215 --> 00:35:00,630
that's then just we collectively agree. And so,

1038
00:35:00,630 --> 00:35:02,230
like, you're saying that would no longer it

1039
00:35:02,230 --> 00:35:04,309
wouldn't need to be like we you know?

1040
00:35:04,309 --> 00:35:06,630
Essentially, it just begins to be the reality.

1041
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:08,150
You can't enforce that at the barrel of

1042
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:10,329
the gun. You can't invade that foreign country

1043
00:35:10,389 --> 00:35:11,750
whether they do or not, but then we

1044
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:13,349
can collectively point to that and say you're

1045
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:15,175
breaking our inner so that that would be

1046
00:35:15,175 --> 00:35:16,775
a way you could see that being implemented,

1047
00:35:16,775 --> 00:35:17,275
hypothetically.

1048
00:35:17,734 --> 00:35:19,014
Okay. So yeah. Then then I then I

1049
00:35:19,014 --> 00:35:21,014
can Sorry. And, yeah, and just to give

1050
00:35:21,014 --> 00:35:23,494
a little shout out to Stefan Kinsella who's

1051
00:35:23,494 --> 00:35:25,434
recently done a document called,

1052
00:35:26,309 --> 00:35:28,550
principles of liberty, I believe it's called. I'll

1053
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:29,930
send you a link if you wanna,

1054
00:35:30,390 --> 00:35:32,390
you know, have a look at it. But,

1055
00:35:32,390 --> 00:35:34,390
basically now this is he's not proposing it

1056
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:36,070
as a law exactly, so it's not exactly

1057
00:35:36,070 --> 00:35:38,230
what I'm talking about. But he's basically setting

1058
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:40,625
up, like, an agreement, like, agreeing to this

1059
00:35:40,625 --> 00:35:43,684
principle and also laying out the various implications

1060
00:35:43,824 --> 00:35:45,585
and connotations. Now I've not even gone through

1061
00:35:45,585 --> 00:35:47,025
it myself in detail because I was only

1062
00:35:47,025 --> 00:35:49,025
made aware of it quite recently, and I've

1063
00:35:49,025 --> 00:35:50,065
not had a chance to read through it

1064
00:35:50,065 --> 00:35:51,844
in detail. But a quick glance,

1065
00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:54,650
it basically would be a perfect stepping stone

1066
00:35:54,650 --> 00:35:56,809
to exactly what I'm talking about. Because although

1067
00:35:56,809 --> 00:35:58,569
it's not actually proposing this as law, it's

1068
00:35:58,569 --> 00:36:00,809
just saying, hey. Let's get some let's get

1069
00:36:00,809 --> 00:36:02,809
some registered agreement. Like, you can click on

1070
00:36:02,809 --> 00:36:04,969
it, and you can sign the document by

1071
00:36:05,130 --> 00:36:06,405
through this Google app

1072
00:36:06,885 --> 00:36:09,045
to just register your support for it. Is

1073
00:36:09,045 --> 00:36:11,284
that this one? That's exactly it. Yeah. So

1074
00:36:11,525 --> 00:36:13,125
Your account go ahead. Go ahead. You know,

1075
00:36:13,125 --> 00:36:14,965
so that's a good example of, like you

1076
00:36:14,965 --> 00:36:16,485
know, if you were to, like, say someone

1077
00:36:16,485 --> 00:36:18,105
wants to think of this like a constitution,

1078
00:36:19,340 --> 00:36:20,860
then there's a good example of it being

1079
00:36:20,860 --> 00:36:22,460
presented in that kind of way and saying,

1080
00:36:22,460 --> 00:36:23,920
okay. This is what it means.

1081
00:36:24,619 --> 00:36:26,059
And like I say, I've not actually read

1082
00:36:26,059 --> 00:36:28,219
this in detail to fully endorse it, but

1083
00:36:28,219 --> 00:36:30,619
Stefan knows his stuff, and he's been very

1084
00:36:30,619 --> 00:36:32,864
helpful to me with regards to my own

1085
00:36:32,864 --> 00:36:35,364
kind of refining my understanding of these principles

1086
00:36:35,425 --> 00:36:37,844
and helping me kind of refine my presentation

1087
00:36:37,905 --> 00:36:38,724
of this idea.

1088
00:36:39,585 --> 00:36:41,264
You know, so he's not he like I

1089
00:36:41,264 --> 00:36:43,264
say, he's not advocating the exact thing that

1090
00:36:43,264 --> 00:36:44,784
I am with regards to saying, let's make

1091
00:36:44,784 --> 00:36:46,065
this law. Let's do it through a peace

1092
00:36:46,065 --> 00:36:48,679
agreement. But he is presenting an agreement

1093
00:36:49,059 --> 00:36:51,619
that articulates this principle, and this could be

1094
00:36:51,619 --> 00:36:52,900
the sort of thing that may be a

1095
00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:53,880
kind of precursor

1096
00:36:54,340 --> 00:36:56,140
to exactly what I'm talking about.

1097
00:36:56,579 --> 00:36:58,500
You know, like, you know, it's yeah. I

1098
00:36:58,500 --> 00:36:59,699
think it's great, and it goes into a

1099
00:36:59,699 --> 00:37:01,514
lot of details of of implications. Like I

1100
00:37:01,514 --> 00:37:03,437
said, I've not read through it in detail.

1101
00:37:03,437 --> 00:37:05,359
Whereas, like, my peace agreement is a little

1102
00:37:05,359 --> 00:37:07,281
bit more kind of sort of surface level

1103
00:37:07,281 --> 00:37:09,204
and just saying, okay. Well, these are the

1104
00:37:09,204 --> 00:37:11,126
three dimensions that we need to have agreed

1105
00:37:11,126 --> 00:37:13,048
to have this agreement. We need the basic

1106
00:37:13,048 --> 00:37:14,969
agreement to establish this law. We need our

1107
00:37:14,969 --> 00:37:16,969
lines in the sand approach where we understand

1108
00:37:16,969 --> 00:37:18,010
that we have to have a black and

1109
00:37:18,010 --> 00:37:20,010
white certainty that something is a non aggression

1110
00:37:20,010 --> 00:37:21,929
principle violation, just like we have to have

1111
00:37:21,929 --> 00:37:23,949
a black and white certainty that someone's guilty

1112
00:37:24,090 --> 00:37:24,829
of the crime.

1113
00:37:25,289 --> 00:37:27,130
And then part three, which is about ratifying

1114
00:37:27,130 --> 00:37:29,894
wife's ownership, which is again really just reaffirming

1115
00:37:30,275 --> 00:37:33,554
what property rights really is from self ownership.

1116
00:37:33,554 --> 00:37:35,875
And just to quickly cover that, you own

1117
00:37:35,875 --> 00:37:36,375
yourself.

1118
00:37:36,755 --> 00:37:38,835
First use principles. If we're both walking through

1119
00:37:38,835 --> 00:37:40,434
a forest and we come across an apple

1120
00:37:40,434 --> 00:37:42,369
tree, if you pick an apple, then that's

1121
00:37:42,369 --> 00:37:43,969
your apple now. If I took that apple

1122
00:37:43,969 --> 00:37:45,570
from you, I'd have to regress. You didn't

1123
00:37:45,570 --> 00:37:47,250
have to regress to pick that apple. It's

1124
00:37:47,250 --> 00:37:49,250
so simple. You know, we have things like

1125
00:37:49,250 --> 00:37:52,210
creation and voluntary trade, which ratify self ownership

1126
00:37:52,210 --> 00:37:54,474
more or transfer over to somebody else, But

1127
00:37:54,474 --> 00:37:56,315
that still just comes from self ownership. If

1128
00:37:56,315 --> 00:37:57,675
it's your Apple, you're allowed to give it

1129
00:37:57,675 --> 00:37:59,034
to me or send it to me or

1130
00:37:59,194 --> 00:38:01,194
you know, and all that. So, you know,

1131
00:38:01,194 --> 00:38:02,635
again, it comes back to the fact that

1132
00:38:02,635 --> 00:38:04,335
although there's so many details

1133
00:38:04,954 --> 00:38:07,260
that need to be gotten into Right. Just

1134
00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:08,940
like we've got maths and we can work

1135
00:38:08,940 --> 00:38:11,019
out complicated sums because we know the two

1136
00:38:11,019 --> 00:38:13,019
plus two equals four, we can work out

1137
00:38:13,019 --> 00:38:15,340
more complicated stuff and still have a find

1138
00:38:15,340 --> 00:38:16,400
a correct answer.

1139
00:38:17,019 --> 00:38:18,719
We can do the same with this principle.

1140
00:38:18,780 --> 00:38:20,219
We know that you own you and I

1141
00:38:20,219 --> 00:38:22,454
own me. So who owns that Apple that

1142
00:38:22,454 --> 00:38:23,355
you just picked?

1143
00:38:23,974 --> 00:38:26,454
Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so and this this

1144
00:38:26,454 --> 00:38:27,974
is why I mean, I I I think

1145
00:38:27,974 --> 00:38:30,054
this is self evident, but I know people

1146
00:38:30,214 --> 00:38:31,335
I know there are people out there that

1147
00:38:31,335 --> 00:38:32,855
might have their difference of opinions. So I

1148
00:38:32,855 --> 00:38:34,375
I just have what you've already presented. I

1149
00:38:34,375 --> 00:38:36,400
think this is, you know, it's morally sound.

1150
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,000
It's exactly what you know, and I'd like

1151
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,400
to believe it is the same that any

1152
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,400
you know, most people would see it the

1153
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,260
same way. That it's just like, well, obviously.

1154
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,079
But we all know that there are people

1155
00:38:46,079 --> 00:38:47,920
that think differently. And so let's let's go

1156
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,085
through some of the, you know, like you

1157
00:38:50,085 --> 00:38:51,684
said, the details, which we may not it

1158
00:38:51,684 --> 00:38:52,965
may not be an answer for it or

1159
00:38:52,965 --> 00:38:54,485
maybe undefined, but let's let's I want your

1160
00:38:54,485 --> 00:38:56,164
opinion on some of these things. So, for

1161
00:38:56,164 --> 00:38:58,264
example, what the next logical

1162
00:38:58,644 --> 00:39:01,445
after implementation and in reality is in your

1163
00:39:01,445 --> 00:39:03,150
mind and and I think we probably already

1164
00:39:03,150 --> 00:39:05,230
kind of discussed this, but who who ultimately

1165
00:39:05,230 --> 00:39:07,469
would decide if the law is broken? And

1166
00:39:07,469 --> 00:39:09,309
I think you already kinda just said people

1167
00:39:09,550 --> 00:39:10,909
well, go ahead. What's your answer? In in

1168
00:39:10,909 --> 00:39:12,670
a circumstance, who would decide how the law

1169
00:39:12,670 --> 00:39:13,329
is broken?

1170
00:39:13,710 --> 00:39:15,545
Well well, like I said, no one person

1171
00:39:15,545 --> 00:39:18,184
would have the the the rightful authority. Any

1172
00:39:18,184 --> 00:39:20,184
any any court could come along and challenge

1173
00:39:20,184 --> 00:39:22,664
another court. So say, for example, somebody law

1174
00:39:22,664 --> 00:39:23,164
guides.

1175
00:39:23,465 --> 00:39:25,465
Say again. Sorry? I'm sorry. The the law

1176
00:39:25,465 --> 00:39:27,809
guides, not the individuals, but the law itself,

1177
00:39:27,809 --> 00:39:30,130
the nonrefreshment. Yes. Yes. Exactly. The principle does.

1178
00:39:30,130 --> 00:39:31,890
Just like you have a constitution that tells

1179
00:39:31,890 --> 00:39:33,349
you in America, supposedly.

1180
00:39:33,730 --> 00:39:35,090
But, I mean, in fact, this is actually

1181
00:39:35,090 --> 00:39:36,469
a really good example, actually,

1182
00:39:37,010 --> 00:39:38,690
of of what I'm talking about because you

1183
00:39:38,690 --> 00:39:41,385
have a constitution in America, which in theory,

1184
00:39:41,525 --> 00:39:43,525
tells your gov you know, tells you how

1185
00:39:43,525 --> 00:39:45,364
laws are applied. But as you, I'm sure,

1186
00:39:45,364 --> 00:39:46,105
are well aware,

1187
00:39:47,045 --> 00:39:49,765
that's completely violated in the most overt ways.

1188
00:39:49,765 --> 00:39:52,085
I mean, half of your government agencies are

1189
00:39:52,085 --> 00:39:54,825
overt violations of the constitution, the ATF,

1190
00:39:55,650 --> 00:39:58,449
the CIA, you know, the DEA. These are

1191
00:39:58,449 --> 00:39:58,949
all

1192
00:39:59,250 --> 00:40:01,670
agencies that shouldn't even exist under your constitution.

1193
00:40:01,809 --> 00:40:03,489
Yeah. And you've obviously got loads of laws

1194
00:40:03,489 --> 00:40:05,329
that violate the constitution in pretty clear and

1195
00:40:05,329 --> 00:40:07,409
obvious ways, all your gun laws, you know,

1196
00:40:07,569 --> 00:40:08,710
all these sort of things.

1197
00:40:09,010 --> 00:40:11,554
But so so, so someone could point to

1198
00:40:11,554 --> 00:40:12,914
it and say, okay. Well, even with the

1199
00:40:12,914 --> 00:40:13,414
constitution,

1200
00:40:14,194 --> 00:40:16,194
you know, it doesn't get followed. But the

1201
00:40:16,194 --> 00:40:18,514
reason it doesn't get followed is because there's

1202
00:40:18,514 --> 00:40:21,554
nobody to hold because the only people that

1203
00:40:21,554 --> 00:40:22,375
has the authority

1204
00:40:23,039 --> 00:40:25,440
under this constitution to enforce this law and

1205
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,000
create laws as well is the government, and

1206
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,440
no one else has the authority to hold

1207
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,679
them to account. Whereas into this system, you'd

1208
00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:33,920
have this kind of constitution, for want of

1209
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,119
a better word. It's not. It's a peace

1210
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:36,960
agreement, but, you know, you know, like the

1211
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:37,460
constitution.

1212
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,195
But unlike the constitution where you just got

1213
00:40:40,195 --> 00:40:42,835
this one big criminal gang that can basically

1214
00:40:42,835 --> 00:40:44,514
violate it and enforce it because there's no

1215
00:40:44,514 --> 00:40:46,514
accountability and they've got their immunities and all

1216
00:40:46,514 --> 00:40:48,034
the rest of it, you would have this

1217
00:40:48,034 --> 00:40:50,215
decentralized system where you'd have competing

1218
00:40:50,594 --> 00:40:53,474
law enforcement agencies, and any one of those

1219
00:40:53,474 --> 00:40:53,974
could

1220
00:40:54,380 --> 00:40:56,699
arrest the other one if they were, you

1221
00:40:56,699 --> 00:40:59,260
know, basically violating the laws they're supposed to

1222
00:40:59,260 --> 00:41:01,440
follow, and they can point to this constitution.

1223
00:41:01,820 --> 00:41:02,880
I mean, like, imagine

1224
00:41:03,260 --> 00:41:04,699
even though it's not what I'm talking about,

1225
00:41:04,699 --> 00:41:07,180
but imagine you had American constitution exactly as

1226
00:41:07,180 --> 00:41:09,405
you did, but without this monopoly on force

1227
00:41:09,405 --> 00:41:11,244
given to the ruling government. So you had

1228
00:41:11,244 --> 00:41:11,905
your constitution,

1229
00:41:12,285 --> 00:41:13,965
but everybody had the right to enforce the

1230
00:41:13,965 --> 00:41:16,045
law. Do you think your court system would

1231
00:41:16,045 --> 00:41:17,885
be more or less corrupt than it is

1232
00:41:17,885 --> 00:41:18,385
today?

1233
00:41:18,844 --> 00:41:20,525
What exactly. And I think it's well, here

1234
00:41:20,605 --> 00:41:22,445
let let me answer with another here's what's

1235
00:41:22,445 --> 00:41:24,460
interesting to me is that what you framed

1236
00:41:24,460 --> 00:41:26,300
is actually really important and is, you know,

1237
00:41:26,300 --> 00:41:28,219
in partly what I would argue is happening.

1238
00:41:28,219 --> 00:41:29,579
But let me give you a different perspective

1239
00:41:29,579 --> 00:41:31,660
from from, you know, from an American perspective,

1240
00:41:31,660 --> 00:41:33,039
which is that the constitution

1241
00:41:33,340 --> 00:41:35,440
in its original state was designed

1242
00:41:35,755 --> 00:41:38,394
as something that is a is inherent it

1243
00:41:38,394 --> 00:41:40,635
it is a a declaration of rights, not

1244
00:41:40,635 --> 00:41:41,135
necessarily

1245
00:41:41,514 --> 00:41:42,414
to gets to

1246
00:41:42,875 --> 00:41:45,195
dole them out and was very clearly outlined

1247
00:41:45,195 --> 00:41:48,210
as inherent rights, god given to people. We

1248
00:41:48,369 --> 00:41:50,130
could only enforce it within these boundaries so

1249
00:41:50,130 --> 00:41:51,730
it will be applied here, but hopefully, the

1250
00:41:51,730 --> 00:41:53,250
world will follow suit. It's kind of the

1251
00:41:53,250 --> 00:41:55,489
original mindset from the founding fathers. Right? And

1252
00:41:55,489 --> 00:41:57,489
so what's interesting is it was founded as

1253
00:41:57,489 --> 00:41:59,489
something that's a universal law that's not bound,

1254
00:41:59,489 --> 00:42:01,329
but but what government did, as I'm sure

1255
00:42:01,329 --> 00:42:03,329
you know, was bastardize that and turn it

1256
00:42:03,329 --> 00:42:06,295
into and convince Americans that they were given

1257
00:42:06,295 --> 00:42:07,974
those rights and they could be taken away.

1258
00:42:07,974 --> 00:42:09,894
So we are effectively there, but it's so

1259
00:42:09,894 --> 00:42:11,815
interesting. So this is where my mindset's all

1260
00:42:11,815 --> 00:42:13,494
coming from. Right? Because we've lived through this.

1261
00:42:13,494 --> 00:42:15,275
This is like, I wanna see this succeed,

1262
00:42:15,335 --> 00:42:17,414
but how do we get around that very

1263
00:42:17,414 --> 00:42:19,639
problem? Because you can have something that is

1264
00:42:19,639 --> 00:42:20,139
instituted.

1265
00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:22,359
But if you have enough powerful people to

1266
00:42:22,359 --> 00:42:24,279
say we disagree or we don't wanna follow

1267
00:42:24,279 --> 00:42:26,039
that, something like this is where you always

1268
00:42:26,039 --> 00:42:28,299
get into the conversation about anarchism and libertarianism.

1269
00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:30,279
This is always where it comes to. I

1270
00:42:30,279 --> 00:42:32,279
believe it is possible to what you're talking

1271
00:42:32,279 --> 00:42:33,684
about, but that's why it's so important to

1272
00:42:33,684 --> 00:42:35,444
have these conversations to kind of flesh out

1273
00:42:35,444 --> 00:42:37,284
that that nuance right there is that it

1274
00:42:37,284 --> 00:42:39,125
it becomes back to the constitution, a point

1275
00:42:39,125 --> 00:42:40,644
to where they can just simply choose to

1276
00:42:40,644 --> 00:42:43,045
disregard it because in in The United States,

1277
00:42:43,045 --> 00:42:44,885
the way it was supposed to play out

1278
00:42:44,885 --> 00:42:45,784
was that Congress

1279
00:42:46,530 --> 00:42:48,630
would hold them accountable if they didn't. Hypothetically,

1280
00:42:48,929 --> 00:42:51,809
executive branch, they'd impeach them. Well, today, everything's

1281
00:42:51,809 --> 00:42:53,410
broken. We all see it, and the congress

1282
00:42:53,410 --> 00:42:54,849
does nothing. Right? And so you can see

1283
00:42:54,849 --> 00:42:57,090
that that's the enforcement arm. So, you know,

1284
00:42:57,090 --> 00:42:58,929
in that kind of analogy, like, can you

1285
00:42:58,929 --> 00:42:59,750
see that

1286
00:43:00,130 --> 00:43:02,070
being a problem in the line of

1287
00:43:02,574 --> 00:43:04,974
or rather the path of nations of sanity?

1288
00:43:04,974 --> 00:43:06,655
Like, could we we could see ourselves reaching

1289
00:43:06,655 --> 00:43:08,815
that point. Right? Well, thing is, it is

1290
00:43:08,815 --> 00:43:10,655
a problem, but it's a problem that, like

1291
00:43:10,735 --> 00:43:12,255
again, a little bit like where we have

1292
00:43:12,255 --> 00:43:14,094
to learn from the mistakes of the like,

1293
00:43:14,094 --> 00:43:16,130
just like we can take inspiration from the

1294
00:43:16,130 --> 00:43:17,890
abolition of slavery, but we also have to

1295
00:43:17,890 --> 00:43:19,650
learn from the two errors that it got

1296
00:43:19,650 --> 00:43:22,210
got wrong. We can also take inspiration from

1297
00:43:22,210 --> 00:43:23,809
the constitution. Like I say, you know, you

1298
00:43:23,809 --> 00:43:25,730
fought wars and created, you know, a whole

1299
00:43:25,730 --> 00:43:26,390
new nation

1300
00:43:26,930 --> 00:43:28,925
based on this constitution, but you need to

1301
00:43:28,925 --> 00:43:30,864
look at so you can still, you know,

1302
00:43:30,925 --> 00:43:31,818
take a lot of heart, and that was

1303
00:43:31,818 --> 00:43:32,925
implemented and, you know, it was done. You

1304
00:43:32,925 --> 00:43:34,844
know, just like abolition of slavery, it was

1305
00:43:34,844 --> 00:43:36,605
done. You can take inspiration from that. But

1306
00:43:36,605 --> 00:43:38,284
what you should also do is learn from

1307
00:43:38,284 --> 00:43:39,965
where they went wrong. And where they went

1308
00:43:39,965 --> 00:43:41,965
wrong with the constitution was is it allowed

1309
00:43:41,965 --> 00:43:43,960
for government. It gave due it gave the

1310
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,140
duty to control the government to congress.

1311
00:43:46,599 --> 00:43:47,719
It's like it it still

1312
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,860
it it dealt with this immorality of authority.

1313
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,079
And my what my point is is, like,

1314
00:43:53,079 --> 00:43:55,079
the constitution would have been perfect if it

1315
00:43:55,079 --> 00:43:57,320
was all men are created equal and just

1316
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,494
stop there. Yeah. None of none of this

1317
00:43:59,494 --> 00:44:01,335
none of this congress has the no. Congress

1318
00:44:01,335 --> 00:44:03,835
has no power. No one has any power.

1319
00:44:04,135 --> 00:44:06,215
All men are created equal, and that tells

1320
00:44:06,215 --> 00:44:08,695
you everything you need to know about what

1321
00:44:08,695 --> 00:44:10,535
is and isn't a crime, what you have

1322
00:44:10,535 --> 00:44:12,614
authority over. You know, your authority is over

1323
00:44:12,614 --> 00:44:13,114
yourself,

1324
00:44:13,519 --> 00:44:15,599
maybe over your children to the point that

1325
00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:16,500
you're their guardian,

1326
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,400
but that's about it. You know? And then

1327
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,480
over your rightfully owned property, which again is

1328
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,800
still dictated by your authority over yourself as

1329
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,639
a free individual. You know? It all just

1330
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,014
and I think, I suppose, what what I'm

1331
00:44:27,014 --> 00:44:29,355
saying is is where these things went wrong

1332
00:44:29,494 --> 00:44:30,315
in the constitution's,

1333
00:44:31,255 --> 00:44:33,835
case, it had too many contradictions to that.

1334
00:44:33,894 --> 00:44:35,974
What was the founding like, what seemed to

1335
00:44:35,974 --> 00:44:37,734
be the founding principle that all like I

1336
00:44:37,734 --> 00:44:39,510
say, that all men created equal. If that

1337
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:41,269
was the entirety of the constitution, it would

1338
00:44:41,269 --> 00:44:42,170
be almost perfect.

1339
00:44:42,469 --> 00:44:44,789
But all the other stuff ended up ruining

1340
00:44:44,789 --> 00:44:47,349
it and contradicting it. They gave authority to

1341
00:44:47,349 --> 00:44:48,730
people that didn't have authority

1342
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:50,250
under their own

1343
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:53,085
professed idea that all men are created equal.

1344
00:44:53,164 --> 00:44:54,605
Then what the hell is this congress you're

1345
00:44:54,605 --> 00:44:55,724
talking about? You know what I mean? It's

1346
00:44:55,724 --> 00:44:57,964
kinda It's such a interesting point, though. And

1347
00:44:57,964 --> 00:44:59,484
and here here's what I find. You know,

1348
00:44:59,484 --> 00:45:00,764
if there's two ways to look at it.

1349
00:45:00,764 --> 00:45:02,525
If they were genuine in their intentions, and

1350
00:45:02,525 --> 00:45:05,099
I question that like anybody should, then it

1351
00:45:05,099 --> 00:45:06,539
appears to me that if you listen to,

1352
00:45:06,539 --> 00:45:08,380
like, you know, the statements made, you know,

1353
00:45:08,380 --> 00:45:09,980
were built with crooked timber and so on,

1354
00:45:09,980 --> 00:45:11,739
the point being is they were very aware,

1355
00:45:11,739 --> 00:45:13,019
you know, it's a republic if you can

1356
00:45:13,019 --> 00:45:15,099
keep it. Right? They they knew that there

1357
00:45:15,099 --> 00:45:17,099
would be power structures. They knew that people

1358
00:45:17,099 --> 00:45:18,700
would try to take control of it. And

1359
00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:20,059
I guess the argument would be that they

1360
00:45:20,059 --> 00:45:21,795
thought this was the way that they could

1361
00:45:21,795 --> 00:45:24,034
keep that at bay knowing it's inevitable. But

1362
00:45:24,034 --> 00:45:25,635
I'd like to believe it's not inevitable. You

1363
00:45:25,635 --> 00:45:26,755
know what I mean? Like, I'd like to

1364
00:45:26,755 --> 00:45:28,195
try at least to go in a direction

1365
00:45:28,195 --> 00:45:29,974
where that's not the assumption that eventually

1366
00:45:30,355 --> 00:45:31,954
the power structure is gonna win. And so,

1367
00:45:31,954 --> 00:45:33,474
you know, that's why I'm so interested in

1368
00:45:33,474 --> 00:45:35,599
this idea. Well, I would say and just

1369
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:36,800
to add to that, I would say that

1370
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,300
it's not it's not about it being inevitable.

1371
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:40,820
I think it's like

1372
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,680
it's always a danger. There's no guarantees. Like,

1373
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,039
you know, you you can you make the

1374
00:45:45,119 --> 00:45:46,880
you can make rape illegal, there's still rape

1375
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,800
still happen. You know, even when slavery is

1376
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,525
abolished, slavery still happens, but it has to

1377
00:45:50,525 --> 00:45:52,605
happen in the shadows. It's not it's now

1378
00:45:52,605 --> 00:45:54,525
formally recognized as a crime. So that's kind

1379
00:45:54,525 --> 00:45:56,525
of, like, the fundamental part of it. But

1380
00:45:56,525 --> 00:45:58,045
it's just a place of, like, looking at

1381
00:45:58,045 --> 00:46:00,204
these things and saying, okay. Well, there is

1382
00:46:00,204 --> 00:46:01,025
these dangers,

1383
00:46:01,325 --> 00:46:03,039
but when you have a rule when you

1384
00:46:03,039 --> 00:46:04,400
have a monopoly on force, when you have

1385
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,799
a ruling government, those dangers become pretty much

1386
00:46:06,799 --> 00:46:09,359
inevitable. They become you know, corruption is pretty

1387
00:46:09,359 --> 00:46:11,780
much guaranteed when you have this coercive system.

1388
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,159
But in a decentralized system where everyone is

1389
00:46:14,159 --> 00:46:14,980
truly equal,

1390
00:46:15,375 --> 00:46:16,815
that's the best like I said, you know,

1391
00:46:16,815 --> 00:46:19,855
like, the best policing against kangaroo courts is

1392
00:46:19,855 --> 00:46:22,195
to everybody to have the right to

1393
00:46:22,655 --> 00:46:24,815
prosecute everybody else. You know what I mean?

1394
00:46:24,815 --> 00:46:26,655
That that doesn't mean everybody's gonna be going

1395
00:46:26,655 --> 00:46:28,255
around doing it because everybody wants to do

1396
00:46:28,255 --> 00:46:29,855
that. You know? Like, it's not everyone doesn't

1397
00:46:29,855 --> 00:46:31,769
have the obligation to enforce the law.

1398
00:46:32,070 --> 00:46:33,829
And and and, again, the other beauty about

1399
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:34,650
having it,

1400
00:46:35,269 --> 00:46:37,349
having this, like, abolition is we don't have

1401
00:46:37,349 --> 00:46:40,410
to start again. We already have the infrastructure

1402
00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:42,869
in place. And by just simply having this

1403
00:46:42,869 --> 00:46:45,829
new law that abolishes all coercive authority over

1404
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:46,329
people

1405
00:46:46,635 --> 00:46:47,614
and makes law

1406
00:46:47,914 --> 00:46:51,195
purely defensive, purely about protecting rights, then the

1407
00:46:51,195 --> 00:46:53,675
existing law enforcement can continue and as long

1408
00:46:53,675 --> 00:46:55,614
as they can continue under that new paradigm.

1409
00:46:55,835 --> 00:46:56,335
But

1410
00:46:56,795 --> 00:46:59,079
competing agencies can keep them honest and keep

1411
00:46:59,079 --> 00:47:02,300
them but but the the public owned infrastructure

1412
00:47:02,599 --> 00:47:04,839
already has an advantage over the private sector

1413
00:47:04,839 --> 00:47:07,079
as in it's already established. It's like a

1414
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:08,679
little bit like again, I don't keep wanna

1415
00:47:08,679 --> 00:47:10,679
keep harping back to the slavery example, but

1416
00:47:10,679 --> 00:47:12,085
it's like, you know, you didn't have to

1417
00:47:12,085 --> 00:47:13,925
do anything to the cotton industry that wasn't

1418
00:47:13,925 --> 00:47:16,025
just gonna happen as a as a as

1419
00:47:16,164 --> 00:47:18,965
a consequence of market functions once you took

1420
00:47:18,965 --> 00:47:20,485
the coercion out of it. And I'm just

1421
00:47:20,485 --> 00:47:22,164
saying, let's do the same with government. Take

1422
00:47:22,164 --> 00:47:24,339
the coercion out of it, and then we

1423
00:47:24,339 --> 00:47:26,359
don't have to lose all our public institutions

1424
00:47:26,420 --> 00:47:27,880
and collectives. Like, the socialists

1425
00:47:28,260 --> 00:47:29,480
can have their socialism,

1426
00:47:29,780 --> 00:47:32,179
and the capitalists can have their capitalism. And

1427
00:47:32,179 --> 00:47:34,179
all we're saying is just don't force the

1428
00:47:34,179 --> 00:47:36,119
other to do what you're doing because

1429
00:47:36,579 --> 00:47:38,679
they're free they're as free as you are.

1430
00:47:38,739 --> 00:47:40,844
And there's a certain fairness, I think, in

1431
00:47:40,844 --> 00:47:42,385
that that would appeal to people.

1432
00:47:42,684 --> 00:47:43,804
But a lot of the points that you

1433
00:47:43,804 --> 00:47:46,304
raise about, like, these concerns, they're valid concerns.

1434
00:47:46,684 --> 00:47:48,364
But I think when we actually think through

1435
00:47:48,364 --> 00:47:50,684
them, there are actually bigger dangers when we

1436
00:47:50,684 --> 00:47:53,324
have a monopolistic government than they are under

1437
00:47:53,324 --> 00:47:55,710
a system where everybody is just of equal

1438
00:47:55,710 --> 00:47:57,869
rights and authority. Yeah. Oh, and the question

1439
00:47:57,869 --> 00:47:59,309
is how to get there. Right? And and

1440
00:47:59,309 --> 00:48:01,150
so let let's let let me ask you

1441
00:48:01,150 --> 00:48:02,670
one question here to kinda wrap in it

1442
00:48:02,750 --> 00:48:04,510
to to finish, wrap up here that I

1443
00:48:04,510 --> 00:48:06,190
think, you know, I was what I was

1444
00:48:06,190 --> 00:48:08,269
thinking about over the last week in general,

1445
00:48:08,269 --> 00:48:09,255
you know, what what

1446
00:48:09,654 --> 00:48:11,414
is is how would this from a mind

1447
00:48:11,414 --> 00:48:13,094
of a of an entity or a government

1448
00:48:13,094 --> 00:48:15,815
design with the with the the intention to

1449
00:48:15,815 --> 00:48:17,255
stop something like this. You know, what could

1450
00:48:17,255 --> 00:48:19,174
they do? Well, how could it be manipulated?

1451
00:48:19,174 --> 00:48:20,694
That's, you know, some of these other questions.

1452
00:48:20,694 --> 00:48:22,320
So you've been doing this a long time,

1453
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,160
and I'm I guarantee you've thought about this.

1454
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,400
And so in a world where this is

1455
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,320
beginning to happen, like, let's say the momentum

1456
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,180
is there and people are signing this document,

1457
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,640
you know, it how how is what ways

1458
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:33,300
could government

1459
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,315
manipulate this? You You know, you'd be the

1460
00:48:35,315 --> 00:48:36,594
best person to ask this. I'm sure you've

1461
00:48:36,594 --> 00:48:38,114
thought this through. Like, what what ways do

1462
00:48:38,114 --> 00:48:39,795
you see them stepping in to try to

1463
00:48:39,795 --> 00:48:41,634
worm this back the other way, and how

1464
00:48:41,634 --> 00:48:43,714
can we be on guard to that? Well,

1465
00:48:43,714 --> 00:48:45,174
one of the ways would be,

1466
00:48:45,634 --> 00:48:47,474
the suggestion you made about, oh, what if

1467
00:48:47,474 --> 00:48:48,809
we tried to get get congress to do

1468
00:48:48,809 --> 00:48:50,570
this under the authority of government? You know,

1469
00:48:50,570 --> 00:48:52,010
they could try to preempt it and say,

1470
00:48:52,010 --> 00:48:54,489
oh, yeah. We'll abolish this under our authority.

1471
00:48:54,489 --> 00:48:55,690
You know what I mean? It's a little

1472
00:48:55,690 --> 00:48:57,289
bit like you know, I mean, maybe they

1473
00:48:57,369 --> 00:48:57,869
that.

1474
00:48:58,170 --> 00:48:59,610
You know, well, maybe that's what they've done

1475
00:48:59,610 --> 00:49:01,369
with the abolition of slavery. Maybe they just

1476
00:49:01,369 --> 00:49:03,210
decide, you know what? People are cutting onto

1477
00:49:03,210 --> 00:49:04,385
this, so we need to throw them a

1478
00:49:04,385 --> 00:49:06,545
bone, make make them think they've won something,

1479
00:49:06,545 --> 00:49:08,944
and and, obviously, give them something genuine. We'll

1480
00:49:08,944 --> 00:49:11,025
abolish slavery, but we'll do it in this

1481
00:49:11,025 --> 00:49:12,784
narrow defined, and we'll keep it. And we'll

1482
00:49:12,784 --> 00:49:15,204
do it under our authority, which is further

1483
00:49:15,425 --> 00:49:17,190
you know? So that's one way. We we

1484
00:49:17,309 --> 00:49:18,510
that's why it needs to be a peace

1485
00:49:18,510 --> 00:49:20,670
agreement. We we can't be letting it go

1486
00:49:20,829 --> 00:49:22,349
you know, as much as I would love,

1487
00:49:22,349 --> 00:49:24,910
you know, to have the NAPA's law even

1488
00:49:24,910 --> 00:49:26,829
under the you know, you know, swap all

1489
00:49:26,829 --> 00:49:28,590
our current corrupt laws just for NAPA law

1490
00:49:28,590 --> 00:49:30,614
because that's a fair law, but it's not

1491
00:49:30,614 --> 00:49:32,534
fair that only one group has the right

1492
00:49:32,534 --> 00:49:34,454
to enforce it, that they have monopoly or

1493
00:49:34,454 --> 00:49:36,054
power, you know, all of these things. So

1494
00:49:36,054 --> 00:49:37,655
I think that's one of the things that

1495
00:49:37,655 --> 00:49:39,574
could go wrong that I'm kinda guarding against

1496
00:49:39,574 --> 00:49:41,644
by being very explicit about it's gotta be

1497
00:49:41,644 --> 00:49:42,715
a peace agreement.

1498
00:49:43,199 --> 00:49:44,800
And the other thing as well is I'm

1499
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:45,940
keeping it simple

1500
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:47,839
so it can't be corrupted. You know, like

1501
00:49:47,839 --> 00:49:50,099
I say, the constitution was corrupted because

1502
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,159
it it it got the first bit right

1503
00:49:52,159 --> 00:49:53,840
about all men being created equal, but then

1504
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:55,679
it instead of stopping there, it went on

1505
00:49:55,679 --> 00:49:57,025
with a load of other stuff. And the

1506
00:49:57,025 --> 00:49:59,105
more stuff in there, the more people because,

1507
00:49:59,105 --> 00:50:00,465
oh, well, we have this congress, and they

1508
00:50:00,465 --> 00:50:02,144
have this power, so let's do that. And

1509
00:50:02,144 --> 00:50:04,144
then that ends up violating a part of

1510
00:50:04,144 --> 00:50:06,025
the constitution. But because you've got another part

1511
00:50:06,025 --> 00:50:07,505
of the constitution you can use as your

1512
00:50:07,505 --> 00:50:09,605
kind of justification, there's kind of this conflict.

1513
00:50:09,710 --> 00:50:11,949
There's no conflict with this peace agreement. It's

1514
00:50:11,949 --> 00:50:13,710
quite simple. You own you. I own me.

1515
00:50:13,710 --> 00:50:15,889
There's nothing else to it. You know? And,

1516
00:50:15,949 --> 00:50:17,630
you know, this should be you know, we're

1517
00:50:17,630 --> 00:50:19,469
we're saying we wanna formalize this as law

1518
00:50:19,469 --> 00:50:21,549
and establish it in a formalized way, and

1519
00:50:21,549 --> 00:50:22,869
we wanna do it through a peace agreement.

1520
00:50:22,869 --> 00:50:25,069
You know? These things are just explicit parts

1521
00:50:25,069 --> 00:50:27,284
of that, but we're not because because sometimes

1522
00:50:27,284 --> 00:50:29,684
people have and I've had lots of great

1523
00:50:29,684 --> 00:50:31,445
ideas myself and other people come to me

1524
00:50:31,445 --> 00:50:33,925
which I've of ideas, you know, oh, well,

1525
00:50:33,925 --> 00:50:35,525
under that system, we can have this. We

1526
00:50:35,525 --> 00:50:37,445
can have that. Those are all great ideas.

1527
00:50:37,445 --> 00:50:38,885
Or maybe they are, maybe they aren't. You

1528
00:50:38,885 --> 00:50:40,619
know? They can be tested. But my point

1529
00:50:40,619 --> 00:50:42,219
is is none of that is part of

1530
00:50:42,219 --> 00:50:44,699
this. Right. This is just the idea of

1531
00:50:44,699 --> 00:50:47,659
that. And whatever works or doesn't work within

1532
00:50:47,659 --> 00:50:48,159
that,

1533
00:50:49,099 --> 00:50:50,859
you know, you know, you know, like, you

1534
00:50:50,859 --> 00:50:52,859
know because, you know, because the thing about

1535
00:50:52,859 --> 00:50:54,505
it is I'm not trying to, you know

1536
00:50:55,304 --> 00:50:57,224
I want conservatives to be conservatives and liberals

1537
00:50:57,224 --> 00:50:58,045
to be liberals,

1538
00:50:58,425 --> 00:51:00,025
socialist to be socialist as long as they're

1539
00:51:00,025 --> 00:51:02,425
voluntary forms, and capitalist to be capitalist again

1540
00:51:02,425 --> 00:51:04,505
as long as it's, you know, NAP compliant

1541
00:51:04,505 --> 00:51:05,005
stuff.

1542
00:51:05,625 --> 00:51:06,984
You know, it's like I'm not trying to

1543
00:51:06,984 --> 00:51:08,824
change, and I'm not trying to dictate any

1544
00:51:08,824 --> 00:51:10,800
element of even though I'm not saying we

1545
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,800
shouldn't, you know, all have good ideas and

1546
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,880
conversations about that, but I don't want it

1547
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,559
to pollute what this is. This is just

1548
00:51:16,559 --> 00:51:18,480
this one you know, it's like the abolition

1549
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:19,059
of slavery

1550
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,920
would have been perverted more if it had

1551
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,519
loads of other stuff. It's a little bit

1552
00:51:23,519 --> 00:51:25,715
like the joke with when congress passes one

1553
00:51:25,715 --> 00:51:27,394
valid thing and they'll throw in a bunch

1554
00:51:27,394 --> 00:51:29,235
of other crap to go with it, you

1555
00:51:29,235 --> 00:51:31,155
know, like pay rises for themselves or whatever.

1556
00:51:31,155 --> 00:51:33,074
You know? It's kind of like that. Don't

1557
00:51:33,074 --> 00:51:34,914
let any crap attached to it. Let it

1558
00:51:34,914 --> 00:51:37,015
just be this one simple thing,

1559
00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:39,859
one simple moral truth. Law is defined

1560
00:51:40,159 --> 00:51:41,219
by this one

1561
00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:42,099
objective,

1562
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,559
simple moral truth that you own you and

1563
00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:46,480
I and me. That's what defines law. Not

1564
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:47,219
any government,

1565
00:51:47,519 --> 00:51:49,440
not any and, you know, and like I

1566
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,119
say, even though we need to formalize this

1567
00:51:51,119 --> 00:51:53,534
and we need to abolish not violating coercion,

1568
00:51:53,994 --> 00:51:55,994
you know, in this formalized way, I mean,

1569
00:51:55,994 --> 00:51:57,594
you do it for a peace agreement. But

1570
00:51:57,594 --> 00:51:59,434
the fact of the matter is is there's

1571
00:51:59,434 --> 00:52:01,355
no more to it. So, you know Yeah.

1572
00:52:01,355 --> 00:52:02,715
I mean, it's like I say, there's no

1573
00:52:02,715 --> 00:52:04,795
guarantees, but I I think that's about as

1574
00:52:04,795 --> 00:52:06,635
foolproof as we can make it. You know?

1575
00:52:06,635 --> 00:52:07,534
Keep it simple

1576
00:52:07,949 --> 00:52:10,349
and and be regimented on what it is.

1577
00:52:10,349 --> 00:52:12,429
Don't let it be changed into anything else.

1578
00:52:12,429 --> 00:52:14,269
You know? Yeah. Well, I this is exactly

1579
00:52:14,269 --> 00:52:15,710
why I I reached out in the first

1580
00:52:15,710 --> 00:52:17,309
place because you know? And as I said

1581
00:52:17,309 --> 00:52:19,150
when we talked, you know, before we we

1582
00:52:19,150 --> 00:52:19,969
did the interview,

1583
00:52:20,445 --> 00:52:22,125
is, you know, I'm at a point right

1584
00:52:22,125 --> 00:52:22,864
now where,

1585
00:52:23,164 --> 00:52:25,204
obviously, you know I mean, I think most

1586
00:52:25,204 --> 00:52:26,605
of this country, the world seems to be

1587
00:52:26,605 --> 00:52:28,045
at a point where we're starting to challenge

1588
00:52:28,045 --> 00:52:30,125
some of these classic held, you know, the

1589
00:52:30,125 --> 00:52:31,965
government should exist. You know, the fact that

1590
00:52:31,965 --> 00:52:33,750
people are even asking that question today is

1591
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:34,869
blowing my mind. I've been bringing it up

1592
00:52:34,869 --> 00:52:36,230
forever, and people are so oh, yeah. That's

1593
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:37,670
a good question. You know, is it people

1594
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:39,190
are starting to ask these things? And that

1595
00:52:39,190 --> 00:52:39,690
that

1596
00:52:40,070 --> 00:52:41,750
left right politics, at least from a US

1597
00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:43,750
perspective, is just, you know, it's it's the

1598
00:52:43,750 --> 00:52:45,989
same thing. The false binary exists everywhere, but

1599
00:52:45,989 --> 00:52:47,204
it's just it's just

1600
00:52:47,765 --> 00:52:49,605
it's it's overwhelming in this country right now.

1601
00:52:49,605 --> 00:52:51,765
And I'm trying to find something to give

1602
00:52:51,765 --> 00:52:53,364
people as an as a as a a

1603
00:52:53,364 --> 00:52:54,644
solution. You know? Because we as I I

1604
00:52:54,644 --> 00:52:56,164
mentioned Derek Bros' work, you know, we talk

1605
00:52:56,164 --> 00:52:58,085
about solutions often. And I thought, you know,

1606
00:52:58,085 --> 00:53:00,425
something as simple as, you know, just simply

1607
00:53:01,199 --> 00:53:03,359
just the non aggression principle, the reality of

1608
00:53:03,359 --> 00:53:04,800
how that can change things and to lean

1609
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,320
in and, like, not left, not right, not

1610
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,480
voting again, none of the president. Just find

1611
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,159
this path forward. And, you know, it's simply

1612
00:53:10,159 --> 00:53:11,599
one of the many that you could, you

1613
00:53:11,599 --> 00:53:13,199
know, put forward to people, but it is

1614
00:53:13,199 --> 00:53:15,635
a solution that is easy to digest. It's

1615
00:53:15,635 --> 00:53:16,994
simple. You know, I think that it could

1616
00:53:16,994 --> 00:53:19,474
reach people for that very reason alone because

1617
00:53:19,474 --> 00:53:21,315
of how, you know, people are just overwhelmed

1618
00:53:21,315 --> 00:53:22,835
today. And I get it. It's by design.

1619
00:53:22,835 --> 00:53:24,434
I think you probably agree. It's just like

1620
00:53:24,434 --> 00:53:26,489
this overwhelming left, right. You know, it it

1621
00:53:26,609 --> 00:53:28,449
it's a cacophony. It never goes away. And

1622
00:53:28,449 --> 00:53:30,130
so if you give somebody something like that

1623
00:53:30,130 --> 00:53:32,130
that just makes sense, it's simple, and actually

1624
00:53:32,130 --> 00:53:33,889
does have the potential to change, you know,

1625
00:53:33,889 --> 00:53:35,409
this may be the one that, you know,

1626
00:53:35,409 --> 00:53:37,089
reach people. So I'm glad I'm glad you

1627
00:53:37,089 --> 00:53:38,369
joined me today, brother, and I hope that

1628
00:53:38,369 --> 00:53:40,244
this does get more reach. Anything else you

1629
00:53:40,244 --> 00:53:41,444
wanna leave us with on the way out?

1630
00:53:41,444 --> 00:53:43,364
You know? Any final thoughts, any upcoming events

1631
00:53:43,364 --> 00:53:44,644
that you're working on, or anything else on

1632
00:53:44,644 --> 00:53:45,304
the way out?

1633
00:53:45,844 --> 00:53:47,364
Yeah. I suppose, like, the final thing I

1634
00:53:47,364 --> 00:53:49,125
wanna say to people and anyone listening to

1635
00:53:49,125 --> 00:53:50,885
this is I mean, I I do think

1636
00:53:50,885 --> 00:53:53,125
there's a certain undeniability about this idea, and

1637
00:53:53,125 --> 00:53:54,824
I think it's not gonna,

1638
00:53:55,269 --> 00:53:56,750
it's because it's not about me as a

1639
00:53:56,750 --> 00:53:58,190
person or you as a person or anything

1640
00:53:58,190 --> 00:53:59,469
like that. I think we really need to

1641
00:53:59,469 --> 00:54:01,949
concentrate on this idea. And one of the

1642
00:54:01,949 --> 00:54:04,050
things I really appreciate about this conversation

1643
00:54:04,510 --> 00:54:05,969
is the scrutiny because

1644
00:54:06,510 --> 00:54:08,269
the more people ask the questions that you're

1645
00:54:08,269 --> 00:54:10,454
asking because these are valid questions. You know?

1646
00:54:10,535 --> 00:54:11,275
But because,

1647
00:54:12,295 --> 00:54:14,454
because this is so true in itself and

1648
00:54:14,454 --> 00:54:16,934
so objective, the more it's scrutinized, the stronger

1649
00:54:16,934 --> 00:54:18,614
it gets. I like like, the biggest weakness

1650
00:54:18,614 --> 00:54:19,755
of the nation's society

1651
00:54:20,135 --> 00:54:21,735
is that it's a tiny project that no

1652
00:54:21,735 --> 00:54:22,715
one's heard of

1653
00:54:23,039 --> 00:54:24,559
by somebody that no one's heard of. You

1654
00:54:24,559 --> 00:54:25,440
know what I mean? And all of these

1655
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:26,640
sort of things. But I think once it

1656
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:27,940
gets out there as an idea,

1657
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,800
not, you know, not with necessarily me promoting

1658
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,719
it or you promoting it, but with lots

1659
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:34,400
of people. Just and it doesn't even have

1660
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:35,914
to be the nation's society project, but this

1661
00:54:35,954 --> 00:54:38,515
it's the idea that's important. It's it's basically

1662
00:54:38,515 --> 00:54:39,894
saying, let's abolish

1663
00:54:40,515 --> 00:54:42,355
I mean, like I say, let's abolish slavery.

1664
00:54:42,355 --> 00:54:44,914
Let's abolish statism. So I suppose my message

1665
00:54:44,914 --> 00:54:47,315
to everybody is really think about this. I

1666
00:54:47,315 --> 00:54:49,500
welcome scrutiny because that's what's helped me refine

1667
00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:51,340
the idea to this point, and it may

1668
00:54:51,340 --> 00:54:53,920
may well need further refinement, you know, through

1669
00:54:53,980 --> 00:54:56,000
the kind of pushback and and and scrutiny,

1670
00:54:56,460 --> 00:54:57,840
like what you've offered today.

1671
00:54:58,460 --> 00:55:00,300
But I'd ask people to really consider this

1672
00:55:00,300 --> 00:55:01,500
in their mind because I feel like it's

1673
00:55:01,500 --> 00:55:02,925
the elephant in the room in a way.

1674
00:55:03,005 --> 00:55:04,244
I feel like it's like we're all kind

1675
00:55:04,244 --> 00:55:06,125
of dancing around what in a in a

1676
00:55:06,125 --> 00:55:08,285
way is a kind of obvious solution. You

1677
00:55:08,285 --> 00:55:10,125
know? And it's and it it appeals to

1678
00:55:10,125 --> 00:55:11,885
a universal truth that I think the left

1679
00:55:11,885 --> 00:55:14,204
can get the left people on the left

1680
00:55:14,204 --> 00:55:16,269
and people on the right that are, you

1681
00:55:16,269 --> 00:55:18,989
know, sane, rational, decent human beings, which many

1682
00:55:18,989 --> 00:55:19,489
are,

1683
00:55:19,949 --> 00:55:21,549
I think they can recognize this as well

1684
00:55:21,549 --> 00:55:22,670
as a lot of the people that don't

1685
00:55:22,670 --> 00:55:23,170
even

1686
00:55:23,549 --> 00:55:26,029
identify with that particular puppet show. I think

1687
00:55:26,029 --> 00:55:28,109
they can recognize it. And the few people

1688
00:55:28,109 --> 00:55:29,969
that genuinely oppose it

1689
00:55:30,764 --> 00:55:32,844
will be a much smaller number once we

1690
00:55:32,844 --> 00:55:35,005
kind of push this out here. Like, it's

1691
00:55:35,005 --> 00:55:36,844
almost like and so one final thing. I

1692
00:55:36,844 --> 00:55:38,125
don't wanna go into it, but one final

1693
00:55:38,125 --> 00:55:39,484
thing I say, I've got an article where

1694
00:55:39,484 --> 00:55:41,724
I say, unite and divide. Because I do

1695
00:55:41,724 --> 00:55:43,724
wanna bring people together, but I also wanna

1696
00:55:43,724 --> 00:55:46,150
divide people. I wanna divide people in the

1697
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:48,170
right way. I wanna divide all the people

1698
00:55:48,469 --> 00:55:50,230
I wanna divide us from the people that

1699
00:55:50,230 --> 00:55:52,230
want to violate us. Right. All the people

1700
00:55:52,230 --> 00:55:54,230
that want to live free and respect each

1701
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:55,050
other's rights,

1702
00:55:55,349 --> 00:55:57,324
I want to unite them, and I wanna

1703
00:55:57,324 --> 00:55:59,405
divide us and separate us from all of

1704
00:55:59,405 --> 00:56:01,324
the people that actually because all the people

1705
00:56:01,324 --> 00:56:03,824
that oppose this, they're gonna then expose themselves

1706
00:56:04,125 --> 00:56:05,344
as wannabe criminals.

1707
00:56:05,805 --> 00:56:07,324
And there's a certain like I said, there's

1708
00:56:07,324 --> 00:56:09,425
a certain way that this could become undefeated

1709
00:56:09,965 --> 00:56:12,269
if it ever kind of reached the kind

1710
00:56:12,269 --> 00:56:14,349
of levels where it was under that kind

1711
00:56:14,349 --> 00:56:16,430
of intense scrutiny. That's when it would its

1712
00:56:16,430 --> 00:56:18,510
strength will really shine through. So so I

1713
00:56:18,510 --> 00:56:19,949
didn't mean to go on so much, but

1714
00:56:19,949 --> 00:56:21,789
that's kind of my parting message. I think,

1715
00:56:21,789 --> 00:56:22,289
like,

1716
00:56:22,829 --> 00:56:25,375
the sunlight will show how true this is.

1717
00:56:25,375 --> 00:56:26,735
You know? Yeah. No. Thank you, man. I

1718
00:56:26,735 --> 00:56:28,255
couldn't agree more. I'm glad you did. And

1719
00:56:28,255 --> 00:56:29,775
I I think it's just it's it's it's

1720
00:56:29,775 --> 00:56:31,375
undeniable. And I I I thought you were

1721
00:56:31,375 --> 00:56:32,494
gonna say and you kinda did is that,

1722
00:56:32,494 --> 00:56:33,695
you know, if somebody comes out and goes,

1723
00:56:33,695 --> 00:56:35,295
I disagree. It's like, well well, there you

1724
00:56:35,295 --> 00:56:35,795
go.

1725
00:56:36,095 --> 00:56:38,255
Yeah. Violence on everybody. How clear is that?

1726
00:56:38,255 --> 00:56:40,329
You know, it's it's it's you you'll probably

1727
00:56:40,329 --> 00:56:42,170
find it. You know, I'm sure you've seen

1728
00:56:42,170 --> 00:56:44,489
the overlap out there, the interesting connection between

1729
00:56:44,489 --> 00:56:45,929
the, you know, the general,

1730
00:56:46,650 --> 00:56:49,710
prevalence of sociopathy and psychopathy in the population

1731
00:56:50,090 --> 00:56:51,070
and how interestingly

1732
00:56:51,594 --> 00:56:52,954
exact that is when you look at the

1733
00:56:52,954 --> 00:56:55,515
general the prevalence of politicians that exist in

1734
00:56:55,515 --> 00:56:56,795
our world. It's actually crazy when you look

1735
00:56:56,795 --> 00:56:58,635
at the numbers. The percentages, it's, like, identical.

1736
00:56:58,635 --> 00:57:00,655
So it's like the people that want to

1737
00:57:00,795 --> 00:57:02,474
rule over you and decide how you know,

1738
00:57:02,474 --> 00:57:04,315
it's usually because they know what people would

1739
00:57:04,315 --> 00:57:05,275
do to them if they were in that

1740
00:57:05,275 --> 00:57:07,429
position. You know? That I think is clear

1741
00:57:07,429 --> 00:57:08,949
in and of itself. And if given the

1742
00:57:08,949 --> 00:57:10,949
opportunity, I think people I would like to

1743
00:57:10,949 --> 00:57:13,029
believe the majority of people gravitate towards something

1744
00:57:13,029 --> 00:57:14,389
like this. And I I I really do

1745
00:57:14,389 --> 00:57:16,630
think this has the potential to to to

1746
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:18,710
change people's understanding of it because of everything

1747
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:20,534
you said today, especially the end part where

1748
00:57:20,534 --> 00:57:22,135
this is not about a personality. It's not

1749
00:57:22,135 --> 00:57:24,214
about a program. It's about an idea, and

1750
00:57:24,214 --> 00:57:25,494
it's about trying to change things for the

1751
00:57:25,494 --> 00:57:26,855
better. And I'm of the mind that most

1752
00:57:26,855 --> 00:57:28,375
people seem to be getting in that path,

1753
00:57:28,375 --> 00:57:29,815
man. And I think most of the ones

1754
00:57:29,815 --> 00:57:31,574
that didn't even realize they weren't that that

1755
00:57:31,574 --> 00:57:33,880
that, like, weren't there before thought they were.

1756
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:35,320
They've just been tricked by a bunch of

1757
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,239
fast talking politicians and people in media. And

1758
00:57:37,239 --> 00:57:38,679
they're and I think for whatever reason, people

1759
00:57:38,679 --> 00:57:40,539
are finally starting to see it, man. So,

1760
00:57:40,599 --> 00:57:42,280
Matthew Sands, thank you again. Thank you for

1761
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:43,639
for your work and what you're doing. And

1762
00:57:43,639 --> 00:57:44,920
I I plan to connect again in the

1763
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:46,394
future and kind of, you know, force us

1764
00:57:46,394 --> 00:57:48,155
back out there again. So thanks again, brother.

1765
00:57:48,155 --> 00:57:50,735
And everybody out there is always question everything.

1766
00:57:50,954 --> 00:57:53,135
Come to your own conclusions. Stay vigilant.