-
- Welcome to the last American Vagabond.
Joining me today is Sal,
the agist from the popular channel pla, uh,
account on Twitter to discuss some important ways
that he uses memes
and humor to reach people with important truth.
And something that I find to be very important
in the conversation today.
I've had a similar conversation
with Jimmy Dor in the past about using his comedy
to reach people, things that are important.
And I co I've talked about this many times,
and how it, it almost disarms people
and it, it, it allows them to accept things,
even if they don't really agree with it,
because they're laughing about it.
That would later come up in conversation
that actually might change their perception.
And I think this is very, very powerful.
And I also wanna talk to him about the idea
of the two party illusion and the way he seems to be able
to see through some of the partisan manipulations out there,
which I also, as you well know, find monumentally important.
So, Sal, it's always a, it's a pleasure to have you on.
How are you? Good.
- How are you? Thank you for having me.
- Good. It's good to meet you. Good to meet you in person.
Haven't actually got a chance to meet you
before, so it's good to have this conversation.
So, I'd like to start with, you know, your work in general,
you know, so I'm not gonna put words in your mouth.
This is what I perceive from what your work is on Twitter.
So, you know, what are your, what's your perception of
the left right paradigm, the two party illusion?
And, you know, if you do feel like you're on one side of
that, how are you able to see through some
of these partisan division tactics
that I think it's very difficult for people within
that paradigm to be able to see through.
- So there's, there's a left wing and there's a right wing,
and I'm sort of out there trying to shoot this bird out
of the sky is, geez, what I'm trying to do, .
That's the way I look at it. I'm a, I'm an anarchist.
I'm an egoist, which is, um, uh, we, we subscribe
to a version of market anarchism where we believe that, uh,
peaceful, um, entrepreneurial non-compliance is
the only path forward.
There is no political solution to this mess.
We are essentially run by a, uh, gang of gangs, mob of mobs,
as Murray Rothbard put it.
And really the only answer is counter economics, peaceful,
entrepreneurial, non-compliance.
So, yeah,
I certainly don't buy into the left right paradigm.
I think it's all nonsense.
And, uh, my whole goal is to promote agom
and, uh, anarchism.
- Well on. So, on those notes in general,
'cause I mean, I talk, I've talked a lot in the past about
anarchism and the, the shocking misunderstanding of pe
of people that even try to understand it,
and especially the intentional, dishonest framing of it
as chaos by, by the governments and so on.
So, explain what those are for people in your eyes,
Ariss first and then, and, and anarchism, and,
and how, in, in which one do you gravitate more?
Or do you see them as similar go, gimme that breakdown. It.
- It's funny that you say that because I think it was Tom
Woods who said, uh, you know, one
of the state's greatest achievements was,
and I'm paraphrasing, one
of the state's greatest achievements, was convincing people
to fear the word anarchy and love the word government.
And, uh, he's absolutely right.
So, anarchism is basically just no government.
And of course, anybody who's familiar
with the movement knows it's a very fractured
and splintered movement.
There's a thousand different schools of anarchism.
There's anarcho this anarcho that as a ris we sort
of differ in a, in a, a number of ways.
Um, number one, we don't believe
that there's a political solution,
whereas you'll often find an caps, um, running for office
or stuff like that and, and things like that.
You might see it Agora too.
But we're, if we're, if we do do something like that,
it's only to mock the system.
Um, it's never to actually, you know,
it's never a serious attempt.
But, um, generally we believe in entrepreneurship.
You know, we look at people like, we look at the success
that Satoshi Nakamoto has had in promoting financial freedom
versus these bills to, uh, audit or end the Fed.
Right? They can't even get a, a bill passed
to audit the Fed, let alone end the Fed.
Meanwhile, Satoshi Nakamoto really did
provide us with an alternative.
And, you know, similar examples exist.
Cody Wilson did the same with a 3D printed gun.
He essentially ended the gun control debate.
Um, Russ Ulbricht essentially established the world's first
ever free market, truly free market in the
history of mankind.
Um, so we look at the success of people like that,
and we think to ourselves, you know,
maybe a free world actually is possible.
And, uh, the best way to do that is to, you know, not,
you know, vote or, or promote a candidate or,
or canvas a neighborhood or man a phone bank,
or to donate your money to a political party, God forbid,
something crazy like that.
You know, we believe that, uh,
and by the way, I do the same thing at 3D printer.
Go Bird. Not to, you know, shameless plug here,
but we, we sell and, and 3D printers
and 3D printing supplies to people for cryptocurrency
in the hopes that this makes it a little bit easier
to defeat these gun laws.
Uh, so we, a lot of our sales are for crypto
and to, you know, these gun free zones.
So the idea is to use innovation
and entrepreneurship to disrupt the state
that really is the only way forward.
And one last point real quick.
A lot of people will say, you know, we have to have a, a,
a revolution instead.
Uh, we need to, we need to get out there and,
and go head to head with the military.
We think this is a poor idea for a number of reasons.
Violence really never works, right?
Um, in terms of revolutions, the, the, the man, uh,
the last man standing, the guy holding the sword
who has beheaded the tyrant simply becomes the next tyrant.
So we don't think that works either.
And, you know, countless historical examples exists, right?
So, again, you know, so Gore was started
by Samuel Edward Con, uh, who died in 2004.
He wrote a couple of books on the subject.
I wrote a couple of books on the subject.
Um, I know somebody that you guys are familiar with,
Derek Bros has also written on this.
So, um, you know, I encourage people
to check all that stuff out,
- Right?
Right. Derek, as part of the last American vagabond,
and we've talked a lot about the, a ariss
and his belief in that, you know,
and this is honestly where a lot, a lot of that has come
that I picked up is come from Derek.
And, and that, that side of the conversation, which I,
I find very important.
I, I avoid kind of like the plague, any label in general,
just for obvious reasons.
But, you know, I've, I I've pointed out, you know,
I think it's easy for people to place a lot
of my mindset in this exact overlap, you know?
And so it's interesting though, in regard to these, the,
the few things that you highlighted.
Do you have any concern about how they may be like,
I don't think anybody can debate that these, you know,
whether we're talking like a Bitcoin or a Silk Road
or these kind of conversations,
that we could utilize these things
to circumvent the power structures.
But are you worried that these things were simply
as some people have highlighted, just manipulations
to get ahead of that coming out of what we're trying to do?
- There's no doubt about that.
Um, I look at this, this small block debate within the
cryptocurrency community, which I've been outspoken about.
And, uh, there's no doubt
that the Feds had their hands all over this.
They intentionally agitated the crypto community
to keep blocks small in order to make Bitcoin less efficient
and less of a threat to the Federal Reserve notes.
Uh, they knew what they were doing.
There's no doubt about that in my mind.
So you're, they're, you're not wrong.
But I think at the end of the day,
they're fighting a, a losing battle.
They're swimming upstream,
they're swimming against the current,
and it's, it's, it's not gonna work.
We have too many tools out there.
Once, once the white paper was released, that game was over.
You know, now we have Monero
and, uh, you know,
a million different cryptocurrencies to choose from.
So they can't, um, they, they, they can fight,
but they can't fight forever,
in other words, you know what I mean? Right.
- I actually wrote an article about that a while ago,
and I'm, I'm by no means an expert,
or even that ve verse when it comes to, you know,
the deeper parts of crypto cryptocurrency
or specifically Bitcoin.
But I remember reading an article from somebody who was,
and the breaking down of how
that was artificially being held.
I'm like, well, that seems very obvious,
like right in the beginning.
And it made sure that it, like,
exactly like you described, right?
That it was being artificially held up.
And I mean, we can see the, the kind of byproducts of that,
but I'm, I'm glad to see that it's broadened out.
But I mean, there's a lot of very clear, not
to focus too much just on cryptocurrency,
but since we bring it up, a lot of very clear apprehension
around how, you know, the digital dollar
and the digital currency in general conversation,
which are not necessarily the same thing,
but they're all digital currencies,
whether they're cryptocurrency or not.
I get why people are very worried about stepping into that.
You know, where's your mindset on that?
Do you think that right now I, that, you know,
using it from within to sort of like, things like Minero,
for example, to push back against what they're trying to do?
Or do you see that as a trap itself? What do you think?
- You know what, I think that they're gonna come out
with cbd dcs and, and mm-Hmm.
. And they're going to prosecute everybody in
the cryptocurrency
community that they can get their hands on.
They're gonna impose more stringent, uh, KYC requirements,
and then they're gonna shut down exchanges.
But at the end of the day, uh, via orris,
again, it's only us.
It's only via Orris. We're gonna be there providing that,
that entrepreneurial black market solution.
Look, what we've done with these local peer-to-peer uh,
exchanges, they just shut down, uh, local Monero, um,
they took it off the app store or something like that,
because they know it's a threat.
It's unstoppable. We have decentralized exchanges out there,
um, that are just, you know,
these are running in a voluntary fashion.
They can't shut all of them down.
They can do what they can't.
They can't stop people from having VPN.
So, at the end of the day, if you want,
if you really are determined to have your financial freedom,
it's becoming increasingly difficult
because they're, they know that their,
their monopoly on the issuance of currency is in jeopardy.
So they're, they're clamping down.
They're doing everything that they possibly can to protect.
And of course, let's be honest,
if we had a monopoly on the issuance of money,
we wouldn't want to give it up either.
You can't, we can't reasonably expect this cartel of banks
to just hand over this power.
So, right. Um, we have to do it,
and it's not gonna happen violently.
It's not gonna happen through legislation.
It has to happen the same way that, um,
Netflix put blockbuster out of business.
Right? It has to happen like the same way that like, uh,
you know, your digital camera sort of made Kodak obsolete.
And like, that's the only way it's gonna happen.
And it, it has to happen, uh, soon
because it's really gotten out of hand.
Who wants to pay for these wars?
Who wants to pay for these, these genocides
and, uh, the murder of Russian teenagers?
I've never met these people.
I don't have any problem with these people.
Why would I want to pay to kill them? Mm-Hmm.
or, you know, all the,
the horrible stuff in the Middle East
or Nancy Pelosi's stock portfolio.
I'm not paying for that shit.
And the only way to do that is to avoid the,
the inflationary tax.
And you have to stop using dollars to do that.
So the only alternative is, as far
as I see it, is cryptocurrency.
- I, and I wholeheartedly agree,
and I've been saying this for a long time,
and I think it's an obvious choice,
and just, we have to just be, not all are created equal,
and we have to be very skeptical about what we lean into.
Right. But like, taking your example about the Kodak,
you know, I, I don't think things like
that happen naturally anymore.
I think that like, you're to the point with Bitcoin exactly.
They, it's artificial from like, in e like business,
let's just put it like this in a fascistic kind of concept.
We've seen the blending
of corporate entities with the government.
So they're now completely,
or the public private partnership going global.
You know, like with World Economic Forum,
there's a thousand ways they can stifle the things they
don't want and produ and,
and rise up even using social media as it is today.
Anything they wanna produce or, or support.
And so how do we get past that?
Do you have any thoughts on that? Because if you're talking
about just the people leaning into it,
then you talk about the idea of creating barriers.
Well, you can't use a VPN
because we're gonna make it a face scan
to use the internet, right?
I mean, this is where they're
going and they're telling you that.
So where do you see the way
to get around that kind of stuff?
- I think that this is a, a battle that's been waged
historically between the state and, and the market.
And I think historically, we always win.
You know, we were talking the other day, I was talking
with a friend of mine about, um, uh, how they're,
they're gonna make this sort of, um, they're gonna be able
to use quantum technology to sort of, uh, break down the,
the cryptography behind the blockchain.
Like it's the, the, the quantum, uh, I forget
what the exact word he was using,
but the, they're, they should be able
to finally break the cryptography.
And then we started thinking about it. I said, well,
you know what, we're gonna have quantum resistant
blockchains, right?
So, like, you know, we're always gonna be one step ahead
of them, and they're gonna be, they're gonna make, uh,
efforts to sort of step in front of us and block our paths,
and we'll find ways around that.
And it's, is this constant game.
But the idea is, is if you,
you're constantly being noncompliant civilly disobedience.
Mm-hmm, , like in the, in the, in the sort of,
uh, tho sort of sense of the word, you just refuse
to just peacefully non-compliant with the nonsense.
There's always a way around it.
If you find it, it might not be easy,
it might not be always safe,
and there will be different levels of risk involved,
and it's up to the individual
to determine their own personal risk tolerance.
But, um, for someone who is passionately, um, opposed,
morally, opposed, opposed to, uh,
participating in this fraudulent slave system, then, uh,
there is a way out.
There is a way out. That's the whole point.
You're, you know, as long as there is a a means, then, uh,
if you're determined enough, you can make it happen.
And that, um, we have to, we have to give thanks for,
and we owe so much to the people who have sacrificed so much
like Cody Wilson, who's been prosecuted unjustly
by the state, like Satoshi Nakamoto, who God only knows
what happened to him or her, or them, or Julian Assange
or Ross Ulbricht,
and all these people who have sacrificed so much who have
provided us with an, with a viable alternative.
Finally, we just, we just owe, we just owe so much to them.
- I hundred. I agree completely.
And I think that's the central
reason that these things worked.
They're sort of like an egalitarian kind
of, you know, just, here it is.
No, you don't need to give me anything.
Like, their benefit comes from
me trying to change the world.
You know? And I, I, I hope that continues.
I feel like we're in a time where that's been squeezed out,
people at least trying to pressure the, you know,
as a society that that's not the direction we should take.
You know? And so that's what I worry about is for
that stuff to work going forward.
You know, like, you made an excellent point there,
and I, I make this about DeepFakes.
The, the argument for the government is there's just,
there's just no way they catch up.
Because by the time they figure out ways to prove it,
the people that are doing it are so far ahead that,
you know, and it's this, this cycle where, you know, I, I'm,
by the way, I'm surprised that hasn't become
a more prominent conversation.
I think it will probably this election.
But the idea of what you just talked about is
that the quantum computing is that I, you know,
they're trying to do that, which is,
I think we all saw coming, like eventually they're gonna
find ways to be able to not, you know, see
through the anonymization and so on.
But would it end up being, like,
the point I guess I'm making is the people that are able
to create the blockchain resistant
or quantum computing resistant blockchain, they would have
to make sure that became usable immediately
to all the average people, or it would become another back
and forth step that would take years, you know, where the p
and that, my point is that if we allow that opening
for the average people,
I don't think it's like it was before.
I think we're gonna fall into some kind
of technocratic panopticon,
and there's not gonna be any way out of that.
I think that's kind of the whole design.
So, do you know anybody working on this?
And I, I didn't wanna focus on it this whole time,
but I'm so fascinated by this.
Is there anybody working on this stuff that you know about?
And is that the way that they see it,
that it's gonna be like post online somewhere
that everybody can use and they understand it?
Or is it gonna be monetized? You know,
- There are a number of developers working on it.
I think, um, I've met,
I've heard Charles Hos hoskinson from, uh, Carano, um,
and IOHK talk about this a number of times.
I dunno if it's an active project that they have going
or up, but I, um, you know, part of the problem is
that the state is now prosecuting these people.
Right? Just, uh, last week, the developer at Tornado Cash
was thrown, was given like a, a five year sentence,
I believe, by a Dutch court in the Netherlands, for simply
he was convicted of money laundering.
All he did was write a protocol.
He had no ability to prevent people from using it in a way
that they deemed illegal.
Yet he was convicted for money laundering. Um,
- The money launderer is convict him of money laundering.
That's that's fantastic. Yeah.
- I know, right? Exactly. Which, which is, it cracks you up
because they say, well, you know, this is used
for illicit purposes.
No currency has been used
for illicit purposes more than the US dollar Exactly.
Any of their fiat currencies, frankly.
But it's, it's just absolutely absurd.
And it just goes to show you, you know, they're so scared
of cryptocurrency.
And the cryptocurrency community, by the way, Richard, uh,
Richard Hart, Roger Ver,
all the crypto six from New Hampshire, uh, Ian Freeman
and those guys, there's a reason Ross Ulbricht,
there's a reason why they're coming after these people.
It's because they know the real, they're not coming
after people from the Libertarian party.
Right. They're not coming after, you know, people, you know,
inside Congress, these small government Republicans,
they're coming after ISTs.
They're focusing on the cryptocurrency community.
And Julian Assange
and the 3D printed community, 3D printed gun community,
that's who these laws are targeting, right?
So, like, you know, if you wanna know who the most, uh,
efficient members on your front line are, look to see
where the enemy is focusing their fire.
Right. They're focusing in on theorist. Right.
Because that's where the true threat is.
- Exactly. Exactly. So let, let's talk about that in regard
to Aism and, and anarchism and,
and these different concepts.
So I've, I've,
I've tried many times in fact having like long form
conversations about like how we would realistically roll
that kind of thing in like, I mean,
I'm sure you've talked about this
and how near impossible it would be
with the way society sees the world, the way
that they understand, they think they do about the di the,
the te the flows of dy, the dynamics of government
and how it would work in regard to your rights.
Like if they, like James Corbett,
and I've had the conversation, you know,
with the suddenly roof,
the government who's gonna build the roads, like
that old joke, you know, and it's like, well,
we do the same people that do now.
You know? And it's, it's a, it's a lack
of understanding about what government really is.
So, do you have a mindset, like,
I know this is a huge conversation,
but if you've got a, a perce perspective on
how you would ultimately roll that out to a population
that's been so drenched in the idea of statism
for their entire lives, something,
whether we're talking aism or anarchism
or some variation therein, how is that possible?
Do you see it being possible, a future without
government control?
- Not only do I think it's possible.
I think that it's inevitable. Um, I, I think
that the collapse of the state is,
is simply a matter of time.
I don't know. You know, we, it's, it's difficult
to say when, but, um, it's, it's an unstable way
of running a society.
Governments don't last very long historically.
Mm-Hmm, . Um, the idea is that the governments
that are overthrown vis-a-vis counter economics,
usually don't ever come back.
It's the ones that are overthrown with violence that do, um,
yeah, I do think a free society's possible.
And I think that you, there's, there's, it's not
that you necessarily roll it out to society
'cause there's no one to do the rolling out, right.
It's just, it's just sort of like a collapse of the state
that, that comes about vis-a-vis black
market entrepreneurship.
It's happened before. Um, you know, but
- So, so right there though, how do you, so right there,
obviously in history, as we pointed out,
you're gonna see power structures vie for
that control, right?
And I mean, that's the real example of a vacuum.
Not the idea that governments,
that the gov the US government occupy aren't
gonna retake their own territory.
It, you know, the idea that it's all the baggage, it's
what we, that's exactly what they do.
They're gonna swoop in, people will be salivating
about the opportunities, right?
So how do you squeeze in there and make that happen?
- So the idea is, let's say that there's this,
there is a successful, um, ago revolution,
and now we have no government.
The, the idea is, well, the question is how do we stop a,
uh, the next, you know, gang of bandits from swooping in
and taking control, right?
And the, the idea is in a, we would eventually, if you read
what Conran wrote in the new Libertarian manifesto
where he lays all this out, the idea is
that we would have these private defense agencies, um,
who focus on who are, who work on a, uh, you know,
regular competitive market.
You know, there's no monopoly,
no government issued monopoly.
They're simply working based on their own efficiency,
and they would defend from these gang of bandits.
And we think
that would be a much more efficient way of doing it.
Mm-Hmm. , uh, we're not there yet, though.
We don't have, we don't have a private defense agency
that's able to compete with the government
yet, but we're getting there.
Um, could
- Just talk about militias in the same way
that we talk about from the constitution
perspective, you know, that like,
just . Yeah. But
- Yeah.
But militias are sort of different than, than this. Mm-Hmm.
militia is sort of like a sort
of voluntary band of people, sort of, um, it's, it's more
of a mutualist concept, a militia Mm-Hmm.
what we're talking about is something more in
the long, long lines of what Dale Brown is doing in Detroit.
Okay. Um, uh, or,
or, uh, we saw there were other examples coming out
of Texas a few years ago where they had this, um, app,
I can't think of the name of the top of my head,
but it was like in, it's like, if you were in trouble,
you would go on the app and send out an alert
and, you know, your community would get a, a, a notification
and they would swoop in to like,
see what's up and see were okay.
Like, but, uh, Dale Brown, um, I'm forgetting the name
of the organization, of course, now that he works with,
it's something in Detroit and it's got like a funky name
to it, but he's like literally providing like
private security to people.
And, and we also see it in the courts, right?
We see, uh, arbitration and,
and, uh, mediation taking an increased percentage
of court cases away from the state.
And I think this is a wonderful thing.
Also, smart contracts, by the way, on, on the,
on the blockchain, on decreasing demand
on state court systems.
So we think that it can be enforced more
efficiently vis-a-vis the private market.
And, uh, I think history's on our side
and, uh, you know, the government does nothing efficiently.
They can't even, they can't even write a budget.
So, you know, I don't, I don't doubt for one second
that once we get these private defense agencies set up
and running, that they will function more efficiently than
any state police force or, or military ever could.
- I agree. And I, I think it's really hard for someone
to make an honest case for,
for the opposite of what you're saying.
And I think it's really about the desperate effort
to maintain the status quo, right.
For the people that are invested in that status quo.
One more question on this
before we jump into something else.
And I do, would you argue, let, let's just say you feel
or decide, which I'm not saying we, I I disagree with this,
but that somehow you recognize
that those things are never possible.
Just for sake of conversation, do you see a way that like,
let's just say these same people with the same mindset,
were able to remove, not necessarily overthrow,
but remove the bad elements of
what we're talking about today?
Again, just completely hypothetical,
do you think there would be a path forward within this kind
of a structure with the right people in place?
Or a way to make that happen?
- No, no, no. I think that the, the system is, is, is, uh,
inherently designed to protect that monopoly on the, on, on,
on violence, right?
Essentially, the way I sort of look at it is you sort of,
you know, throughout history, you've had these different,
you know, warring gangs competing for power.
And eventually these two bans of power,
these two rival bans decided upon, uh, you know,
rather than kill each other, we're just gonna come to a,
like this power sharing agreement where every four years
I get controlled, and every four years you get controlled.
And it's just, it's all sort of nonsense.
But I'm, you know, it's sort of like that meme that I've,
I've posted a number of times
where it's like the gorilla in the zoo,
and it's like, you know, I'm not interested in having a,
a more benevolent zookeeper.
I'm interested in getting back to the jungle.
You know, I, I want, I wanna be free again, I'm, I'm really,
I could care less about, you know,
the strong man in the White House as,
as Davey Crockett put it.
I'm interested in getting rid of that,
that White House entirely.
And just, or as Jeff Dys says,
we don't wanna seat at the table,
we wanna flip the table over, you know?
Exactly. So that's the way I see it.
- I couldn't agree more, you know,
and I just, it's important to try
to flesh out these thoughts for people to better understand
what we're talking about, you know?
Because that's usually the mindset.
It's like, well, why don't we just put those people
in place now and let this work?
So, I mean, I agree. I mean, it's a weaponized system.
I would argue though, that I think that if,
and you know, like, I, I've made this argument
before about like, hypothetically, let's take a, uh,
you know, what term would be the right team?
Not like a, a like a idea of like a king
and his people, you know, going back as far whatever,
whatever you'd call that, the dictatorship, whatever.
And so the point would be, hypothetically, if you had a king
with absolute power
or queen that actually cared for whatever reason,
was the most benevolent, altruistic person alive
and genuinely did everything he could
to make sure everyone in his kingdom was absolutely happy.
I mean, realistically, that'd be the best case scenario.
Not for freedom, but the idea of a society functioning
because the guy really does absolute power.
Now, I'm not advocating for any,
'cause the point would be the next person's probably not
gonna be as benevolent, right?
Right. But you could see how in any circumstance,
you could make an argument that with people
that actually cared about using whatever system
to the maximum benefit of the people would be something
that would end up being positive for the people.
But I think your point, and I agree with is
that these systems are, are rife with opportunity
for abuse at every turn.
And I think that's what government really is.
And I, that's why I've always been so, you know,
I've leaned into things like anarchism in general.
As I've said many times in the show, it's the only ideology
that has no place for rulers.
I wonder why they don't like it, you know,
- , right?
Of course, of course. You know,
you can absolutely establish a temporary state of mm-Hmm.
increased liberty of maximum liberty.
You can of a lot of liberty, right?
This is what the American founders did.
This is what, you know, it's happened a
number of times through history.
Mm-Hmm. , it's, you know, I,
I wrote a book about this, um, the American experiment
where it's like, one of the, the point I'm trying
to make in the book is that the Greeks got tired
of their government, so they overthrew them,
and they, you know, instituted this, this new form
of government democracy to try to limit the, the,
the state that didn't work.
So the Romans tried something else that didn't work.
The American founders tried something else that didn't work.
And it's time guys where we say, Hey, maybe the whole,
maybe the whole idea itself is flawed of trying to find,
you know, this Goldilocks government, as I call it.
It's maybe, maybe that that whole search itself is flawed.
So, Mm-Hmm, , that's the way
we as Agora see it.
And, you know, the, the alternative is freedom and liberty,
and you're not gonna find that from politicians.
You know, it's sort of like, uh, you know, it's like,
it's like going to like the, the Marlboro factory
in search of pulmonary health.
You know, it's like going to McDonald's
for like, you know, to lose weight.
It's just not gonna happen. Right.
- Well, so what, what would you think the first step would
be for the average people to, to lean into that?
Somebody who's already taking part,
who's already feeling like they wanna
vote for somebody in the next election?
Like if they've, like, I like what he's saying,
what should they start doing right now?
If you had a, a starting point?
- So somebody who is still, uh, into the whole political
- Yeah.
Say somebody who's planning to vote for, somebody's planning
to vote for somebody right now,
but they just heard, you're, you're laying this out.
And they go, okay, I agree, you know,
but how do I, what do I do? Right? What, what's
- ?
So they agree and they wanna get started with Aism.
Um, a number of things.
There's, again, it depends on your personal risk tolerance.
A lot of people don't wanna jump deep into, you know,
black market anarchism
and start, you know, selling illicit goods on,
on the silk rotor or on the dark web or something.
A great way to get started that I tell people,
it's just grow your own food.
Just start growing your own food and,
and learn how to can and stuff like that.
And, and I think that in it's, in
and of itself is a wonderful way to do it.
Carl Hess, who was a greatist, had this wonderful concept
of, um, creating your own local production facilities
that bypass state regulations.
And then what we do as of course, is we take the,
the products, the fruit
of those local production facilities,
and we trade them in a voluntary fashion.
So you can think of like a blockchain miner
as a local production facility.
We're locally producing cryptocurrency in a way
that bypasses state regulation.
A 3D printer does the same thing. Guess what?
So does your garden. Your garden does the exact same thing.
You guarantee yourself.
No, uh, you know, um, pesticides
and no, uh, g only knows
what the F FDA is spraying everything with.
So that's a great way to do it.
If you want to earn extra, you know, agoish points, uh,
take your stuff to a local farmer's market
and offer it for silver coins or cryptocurrency.
Get the community involved, right?
Um, if you're feeling even more adventurous,
get yourself some cryptocurrency.
Download a a, a Bitcoin cash wallet.
Get yourself some Bitcoin cash.
Learn how to use it and, uh, start using it.
Start trading it like real using it.
Use, use it to replace your dollars.
Um, and then the third piece of advice is,
I would tell people is get yourself a 3D printer
and learn how to use it.
Because one day you might need it.
Um, you know, if they ever come for your guns, uh,
you don't wanna fight them off.
You don't wanna have a shootout and die
and leave your family unattended to give them your guns.
Keep the 3D printer, and as soon as they're gone,
you can have a, a, a, a fully functioning rifle within,
you know, a day or two. So, Mm-Hmm, .
- So if I, if I could put a fine point on it,
what you're saying is self-responsibility, self-reliance,
and finding ways that you can
to circumvent the control structure,
and I mean, I think that's exactly,
absolutely. Yeah. I love it.
- Absolutely. I, I break it down for people, real simple.
Grow your own food, get a 3D
printer, and become your own bank.
- Yeah. Well said. I love it.
And, you know, and what's funny is all
of these things are in efforts
or some way, some transitional period
of them trying to make them illegal,
right. Exactly. Every single one
- Of them, which is exactly the point.
Exactly. And again, that's how you know
that we're onto something, because that's
where they're a target, that's where
they're focusing their fire.
- Yep. Yep. Exactly.
Well, so let, let's talk about the,
the two party illusion perspective of all this,
because obviously what we're talking about would be,
you know, when we're able to get
beyond what we're dealing with now.
So now what we're faced with is this endless cycle,
which I love the way you framed that.
You know, a a powering agreement is exactly
what it ultimately comes down to.
And so what we're talking about is, you know,
this inundation people are completely lost.
Those that are, and I,
and you tell me your thoughts on this.
I believe it's a rapidly decreasing number.
I don't necessarily know if that means majority or not,
but I think from the covid ex illusion
to even things like East Palestine to what's going on
with Israel and Gaza, people have been shaken free from
this, or really just understanding that they have been lied
to about a lot of different things
that they haven't really accepted before.
So first and foremost, like, do you think
that the two party illusion is losing its power?
And how, and how is it, you know,
you have a very prominent account on Twitter
and it's pro, it's interesting that you get a lot
of traction with things that seem to challenge that,
which other people have a hard time doing that.
And so what, what do you think is the secret to that?
So both those questions, whichever one you wanna take.
- Yeah. So like, um, you know, I, I think that
the state is obviously threatened.
We've, we've, we've discussed that,
but I think that I'm not, I'm not hopeful
that we're gonna wake people up.
I don't think I, I don't think it's realistic for us
to expect, you know, tomorrow the world is gonna be,
you know, we're gonna be, they're gonna, we're gonna convert
the, the global population to Roth Bardy and anarchism.
That's not gonna happen. . Yeah. I wish. Right?
Of course, you know, the world will be a better place if
everybody, if everyone read Meis,
but I don't think that's likely to occur.
Um, again, as ISTs, we try to convince people
with their wallet, right?
We're trying to offer a better product than the state.
We think that, uh, Bitcoin Cash
or Monero is a better medium
of exchange than the US dollar is.
We think that, um, you know, uh, these,
these dark web markets are more efficient than eBay
or, you know, Amazon
because they offer products you can't find there.
Mm-Hmm. . So we're trying
to outcompete the state.
We're trying to convince people with their wallet.
People will not, um, they might not understand, you know,
Austrian business cycle theory,
but they know that crypto goes up and the dollar goes down.
So, you know, it's that, that's a much easier sell than,
you know, Austrian business cycle theory, right?
You can convince people about, you know, how, you know, the,
all the, you know, what MEUs and manger wrote
and stuff like that, but you're gonna
bore half these people to death.
They've been dumbed down by decades of, of the Department
of Education and the public indoctrination system.
So there's a couple people, every now
and then, you reach somebody, I get countless, you know,
dms on Twitter and emails, Sal, you change my mind on this
and that, then it's wonderful.
But it's to, to reach a critical mass,
it's gotta be something like what Satoshi did
or what Ross did, or what Cody did.
That's really the only way, in my opinion.
And, you know, mm-Hmm. para
by who's a wonderful egoist, a professor at Oklahoma State,
uh, in economics department.
He has this wonderful point where he says, you know, as
libertarian, anarchists of ISTs, what have you, you know,
we're individualists why should we spend our time trying
to convince the collective, you know, to, to come around
to our way of, of being, you know, and or,
or Thoreau sort of puts it a different way.
We only get 80 years with 70 years if
with a whole lot of luck, right?
So it's like, I can't spend that time
convincing you to be free.
If you can't see that we're all debt slaves at this
point, I, I can't help you.
You know what I mean? But there is a way forward,
if you're interested in finding a solution,
then we can talk, you know,
- So then I'm taking that you don't think that there's a,
a shifting happening, or do you think that
- No, I don't, I don't think that the political parties are
sort of ideologically threatened.
I think that they're, they're threatened sort of financially
by, you know, their, uh, mishandling of the US dollar,
and by the rise of cryptocurrency
and alternative non-inflationary assets.
But I don't think they're ideologically sort
of threatened. Mm-Hmm,
- Well, I mean, I maintain a, a hope
that people are able
to see more than we'd like to give them credit for.
You know, while all, but while taking the harsh realities at
face value that we can see, you know what I mean?
Like, I, I really do think that people are capable,
uh, not collectively.
And I think that's the point, is that people collectively,
I was talking about this earlier,
you know, can be irrational.
It's like the fear. It's the collective, the phenomenon
of people when, you know, you put 'em in a room together
and they, they kind of see the wave, you know,
the point is an individual in a corner, you can,
you can rationalize with, you know,
and I think that done the right way.
I do think it's possible, but I agree with you,
and I think that ultimately it's the hardest thing to do, is
to try to just blunt force dump the information on them
and say, here, we need to do this better.
But what you're highlighting is you provide the path, right?
You show the better option, right?
And allow that choice to be self-evident, you know, with
so much dishonesty, I find it to be, you know, that there's
so, there's so much going on where you can see
that they're actively trying to undermine that possibility.
So I find it difficult, you know,
but I, I mean, I, I think that things that are happening
with the larger foreign policy dynamics have opened the door
to this moment to be able to show that path, you know?
So it's kind of, it's kind of a mixed bag.
Well, so, and, and, yeah. Oh, good.
You comment on that? Go ahead. I,
- I, I would just say that like, um, you know, this is sort
of why agos sort of get along with and caps
and libertarians, because they sort of focus on, um,
like educational, spreading the message, which is wonderful.
It's great, we need people to do that.
But what happens is they sort of, um, you know,
people like Ron Paul or the Mees Institute
or Lou Rockwell, they sort of wake people up and,
and smack 'em over the head
and say, Hey, stupid, the government's, you're a slave.
And people wake up and,
and then they realize, um, they go through this period
of realization, and then eventually they come to the,
the conclusion that the political means is insufficient.
And then us ago we're like, Hey,
we got a great idea over here.
So it's sort of like a, a pipeline to agom, right?
That's why I tell people Agom is really the most radical
form of anarchism.
Like, it's not an anarchical capitalism.
Like that's, or voluntaryism, that's sort
of a step two to aism.
- Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense.
I mean, I think this is an important thing for people
to truly take the time to understand
and not just listen to somebody screeching about how,
and it means chaos, and there's no control,
which is like the exact opposite. It's the
- Opposite of that.
Exactly. Frankly, in, in a,
in a truly free society would probably be more highly
regulated than what we have today,
because there would be more, more efficient
enforcement mechanisms in place.
You know, you, you would be less inclined
to violate your insurance policy than you would, uh,
you know, you know, the cop's not watching.
There's nobody on the street. You can get away with it.
But if, you know, if you violate your insurance policy,
you might have to pay more next time you use my road.
So I think people would be more inclined to, uh, behave.
- Hmm. Interesting. Yeah.
Well, I, I think that the reason that you're able,
and the other point of that to really break through,
which I think is the important part, is
that, you know, I think it's clear.
And on the side note, actually let us know if
you've dealt with any censorship.
I think a lot of people have with a lot of the stuff
that you're highlighting on Twitter.
But I think there a lot of what you do, this brings me
to the other point, is that it's the, the tact,
the skillful, tactful strategic use
of memes and, and comedy.
And I really believe that, like, it's powerful.
I mean, even funny enough, I was,
before we were getting like, I've, 20 minutes
before we got live, and I'm scr going through your feed.
I'm sharing every single, like, taking 20 seconds
to laugh my ass off about it.
And I'm sharing it, thinking.
I mean, and funny enough, there are things in there like,
I forget which one it was that I'm like, well,
I don't think I agree with that, but
I'm sitting here laughing about it.
You know, it's like, and it ultimately ends up, like I said,
it really plants the thought.
Even if you ultimately don't agree with that in a,
in a di in a, uh, an unguarded dis disarmed way,
you've processed it, which is what we talked about,
whether it was covid illusion
or anything else where the wall goes up, oh, you're,
you think that side, I'm not even
gonna consider what you're saying, study.
I don't want to hear it. Whereas if you came up to them
and were like, Hey, you know, made it about a joke.
Or even more so I say in the past, you know, you,
you come out for them, like,
let 'em know that you're on their side.
I agree with you, but here's this thing
that I got shared from somebody else that agrees
with us and show them the thing.
Oh, oh man, that's crazy. What's the difference? You know?
It's, it's the wall. And so that's
what I think your work has been so important.
And I'll just bring up the, I have a couple
of the ones I just grabbed this morning.
Like, for instance, deal
with the poll is just about highlighting an unpopular truth
that most people, I think are generally aware
that the US government is some, not,
not some benevolent altruistic entity.
It's facts marching
around the world and destroying a lot of things.
And that's not the people, that's not
the country, that's the government.
Right. And I think that's very important.
But to the point I'm making things like this,
if government can suspend your, oh, actually, you know,
where's the funny one I was talking about?
Well, I mean, I guess they didn't get the best examples
of the funny ones, but , in case I thought,
these ones are the best message, but the
memes on the less are funny.
They're characters you're comfortable with.
For those in the podcast, the ones I showed, it says,
if government could suspend your rights,
anytime there's a crisis, you don't have rights.
You have permissions exact. Exactly.
Or all the powers your government
to you gave your government
to stop terrorists were used to terrorize you.
And lastly was when people think they're awake to the NW,
but they think an election will fix it with the kid's face
with a s sneer on it.
I forget who that's from, actually,
by the way, what movie that's from.
But in case the point was, if you wanna comment on that,
that you use these things tactfully,
and they're, they're reaching people that I think would
otherwise not consider them because of that.
- So there really is a meme war.
There really is an actual Meir.
And the, the military has written papers on, uh,
the art of mimetic warfare.
Um, they've really, like, they spent millions
of dollars to analyze this.
And there's a great book called like War, which, uh,
discusses how, um, Mossad and the CIA and, uh, MI states
and all these different intelligence communities manipulate
social media, um,
and the me more in an attempt to sort of control
and shape, uh, public opinion.
And, um, bad at it,
- , they're - Very bad.
You know what? They're very bad at it.
And the truth is, we're all better at it.
We are better at, and, and, but there's a reason for that.
And, and the reason for that, that I've determined is that,
um, what is a meme?
And this goes back to like, you know, the seventies
where people, the, the term comes from a meme really is
just, um, you know, in the, in the, in the current sense,
it's really just a, a, uh, image
or a gif or a little video clip
or something that, um, is sort of like an argument.
It's like an argument in an image or an argument in a gif.
And the bottom line is, if you have a poor argument,
you're gonna have a poor meme.
If you have a good argument, you're gonna have a good meme.
And that's why the government can't meme.
That's why they say the left can't meme
or the right can't meme
because, uh, they can't, they don't have any good arguments.
And it's really only the anarchists
and the libertarians who are capable of, uh,
making this sort of content.
That's why anti-government memes go so vital,
because everybody knows that these people suck.
It's obvious, right? , it's like, it's, it's almost,
it's an undeniable truth at this point.
Mm-Hmm. . So, you know, you, it's,
it's really difficult to make a meme, for example, about
how we need, you know, the DMV
or something like that, , you know what I mean?
Like, it would be, it would be the worst
meme ever, you know?
But I can, I can make a million memes over in the next 10
minutes about the DMV at the top of my head,
and they would probably all do very well
because everybody, there's, you know, a sort
of underlying funny truth to how
how absolutely awful their surfaces are.
- That's, it's, that's so perfect too.
And that's such a great example
because, you know, that actually for me, that really, yeah,
I haven't heard that placed that way
before, like, the idea of the argument and so on.
It's exactly right. Because you really couldn't make,
I mean, I bet you somebody who is smart enough could find a
way that's, that's actually
what I was gonna say next is I think, think, you know,
find a way to use unpopular, you know, arguments in a way
that could convince you, and that
that would be a skillful use of it in the reverse.
And I do think I see some of that,
but you're right, though, it does have to be something
that like the collective would tap into.
Right? And I think that's the interesting part of it, is
that they, and, and that in, in of itself shows us
that there is a, they're losing
that influence to a large degree.
- That's the whole point. Because like, you know, uh, uh,
something that really hits home that people recognize
as truth, something that, you know, promotes liberty
or something like that, that goes viral,
that happens organically.
Mm-Hmm. . But now, because the,
the state can't do that again, that book, like War With, one
of the things that they talk about is how, um, they'll,
you know, they'll use bot accounts
and armies of bots to swarm a post and, and like,
and retweet and share the post, but they're all bots.
Mm-Hmm. . And, uh, that just goes to show
that they know, like you're saying, that it has to sort
of tap into the collective,
but they can't do that organically.
So they have to sort of do that in a sort of, uh, uh, false,
uh, false way.
And that's how they do it through bots and,
and sock puppet accounts and things like that.
And, and shadow banning popular creators
or censoring them all together.
I've been kicked off of every platform on social media.
I was kicked off of Twitter, I was on my last strike when
Elon Musk, uh, bought the platform.
And, uh, thankfully I haven't had any problems since,
but Facebook, Instagram, I've had
ads from my 3D printer store moves.
I've had pages with tens of thousands
of followers just completely shut, unpublished,
ripped outta my hands after years of building them up.
So, um, you know, it's all, it, it's, it's part of the war,
you know, it, it could be worse.
We could be fighting a war against the government like they
used to 400 years ago,
and we'd all be dead by now, so. Right,
- Right.
- I guess it could be worse. , you know, most
- Definitely, it can always be worse.
But I, what I think though is, you know, an interesting,
you know, to the point that they're clearly losing influence
to some degree, you know, on the point of free speech.
I mean, that's obviously why that's happening, right?
They, they recognize that they're either not capable or,
or good enough in this field to be able to succeed.
So they have to do, you know, artificially
or dishonestly affect it.
That's what the government does, you know,
but I'd like to believe that's indicative of a larger shift.
That's, that's what I, I see happening, at least I hope.
But in regard to the free speech, you know,
clearly you've been affected by that, right?
So, and I, is that, do you see it the same way?
Is that about suppressing the flow of this content,
or is it just about the fact
that you're setting saying unpopular truths
and then in your experience on places like Twitter,
you know, after Elon Musk, has it been, you know, in your,
in your mindset, I'm very fascinated about that.
Have, do you see it being better?
Do you, is it changed in your mind? What do you think?
- Yes. So, um, oh,
there's definitely a difference on Twitter.
I mean, I remember, um,
when the Tampa Bay Bucks, I live in St.
Petersburg, Florida, when the Bucks won the Super Bowl,
there were people downtown who were partying.
They were having, and this was, you know, middle of the,
the whole scam demic, and they were jumping on cars
and partying, and I just took a video,
everybody having a good time, and posted it to Twitter,
and my account got locked, um, for posting people
who didn't have masks on.
Wow. I mean, it's absolutely absurd.
So, um, you know, it, it's, it's all, obviously,
it's a matter of the establishment trying to hold onto power
and, and, and safeguard a, uh, false
and failing narrative that, that is just, you know,
absolutely, uh, unbelievable and incredible at this point.
You know, you have to be a fool to keep buying into it.
And they know that, and
that's why the censor censorship is so heavy.
Mm-Hmm. . But I think that, um, now
that Elon has actually, um, you know,
it's not a completely free speech platform, right?
'cause I'm, I'm sure I've heard complaints.
I'm sure that there's people out there who've said stupid
shit that we wouldn't agree with that probably got censored.
Um, but it's a hell of a lot better than, than Facebook
or Instagram, or than Twitter was.
And I think just doing that, he's creating a, uh,
he's, he's putting competitive market pressure on Zuckerberg
and, and the folks at Meta to sort
of loosen their restrictions.
Um, you know, Instagram has just,
just actually offered me monetization
because now Elon is, has monetized Twitter accounts.
Now, Instagram has to sort of, you know, sort
of do the same thing to compete with, with, uh, X.
Will it work? I don't know.
I don't, I don't think, I think Zuckerberg is too deep in
bed with the CIA and the FBI.
Um, but, you know, time will tell.
I'm, I'm happy on Twitter. I, I love Twitter.
It's, it's the only platform
where I know I'm not going to be suspended.
I don't promote violence. I'm an aorist. Mm-Hmm.
, we're the next step is pacifism.
We're like one step away from being full on, you know,
pacifist, Tolstoy and pacifist.
But like, I'm not gonna go out there.
I'm not telling anybody to go fight the government
and chop the heads off the air.
I'm not doing that stuff right.
So it's, it's absurd that I even have to deal
with these things, but here we are.
- Yeah. And, and I, I honestly hope you're right.
I, I have a little bit a different opinion on, on
where I think this goes and how it's happening.
And I think we're at a different phase of
what is being done through social media.
I frankly don't see Elon
as being an honest character in all of this.
And I think that, you know, somebody with, so with
for many different government contracts
and the overlapping, it's obvious
that there's something else going
on, I think, in my opinion.
But I would agree. I mean, I've got my account back, right?
And I was censored four times on Twitter, you know, .
And so, and I actually got it reinstated,
and I, I said this, when it first happened, I said, look,
and if, you know, I'm not gonna think anything
until I get my, if I get my
account back, I don't think it's gonna happen.
And then it did. And then, you know, and I've,
and I've leaned into it like I said that I would.
And you know, and even in the sense
that I've ar I've said many times that I think
that it's clear that right now, no matter
what you look at their Twitter is the best location,
which I even say grudgingly,
because I don't think that what they're doing is for,
in our best interest in the general sense.
And I'll tell you what I mean. But I, I,
there's nowhere else that you can get that kind
of real time information.
And yes, you have to consider that half of it could be fake,
but that's just being objective and,
and questioning everything, right?
But it's a, like, the type of information you can get
through there in real time,
I guarantee is a thorn in the side of a lot of agendas.
And there's been so many things that have broken down.
A good small example in, in regard to Israel
and Gaza, like the first week I think,
or first couple weeks there, Israel bombed a location
that killed a Reuters journalist in
Lebanon right in the beginning.
And it was immediately self-evident based on sta facts
that we could prove that they, Israel had stated
that they were bombing this location.
And at the same time, timestamped on Twitter, you can see
that they were there posting that they were present
with a Reuters journalist
and three other people, other journalists, the area exactly
where they were got bombed.
And the guy was then dead. And I'm like, okay,
well Israel killed the guy when he bombed him.
And I came out and I reported that provably,
and it was like a week and a half until Reuters came back
and admitted that that happened.
And I'm thinking, you know,
whether they are some other level of due diligence
that I highly doubt they were doing, the point is that
that real time info was something
that they weren't even considering,
or they didn't care, or they were ignoring it.
But that's the kind of thing that really puts a stick in
their spokes, you know, it screws up the process.
So that I think is absolutely good.
And I think that I've been reaching more people on Twitter
and so on, but I think that what we're dealing with,
and let me know when you think about this,
is more about social engineering, more than it's ever been.
I think we're in this very alarming setting right now where,
and by the way, in my ex experience
and what I've seen, there's been a lot of people
that have been censored so far.
Uh, kit Berg, for example, who's just doing good work on,
on foreign policy was deleted.
And they fo they followed up and confirmed that situation.
They said he's been censored and he's gone.
And, and there's plenty of things he says that I don't agree
with, you know, it's about free speech, you know,
and I think we agree that
that's a paramount absolutist kind of concept.
And so it's just interesting to see.
But again, and just like I said with Trump,
who I also don't support
or agree with, I hope everyone's right about him.
We should, right? We should hope that the people
who see him as a good person are right.
Because why wouldn't we?
And I, I hope the same here, you know,
but I'm very worried about the way that they can use this,
especially with mostly I think Republicans at this point
believing that this is on their side
and then until something turns
or something like y Carino, you know, is part of this
and how that could easily go into the direction if Elon
steps aside, or even the same point we made
before about what happens to the next person who's in
control and it, will it go, you know,
what are your thoughts on all of that?
Do you think that there's any worry
that it may just be surreptitious
and allowing a little bit more reach
to some while cementing something different?
- So I think it's possible that, um,
Elon Musk is not a libertarian,
but still does good in the world.
And I, I think that, um,
Walter Block has this great book called Space Capitalism
where he, he essentially says, yeah, look,
Elon's taken all these subsidies, you know,
at SpaceX from the government.
So he's, we can't call him a libertarian,
but clearly he is, you know, sort
of in a very agos sense, he's sort of made NASA obsolete.
NASA doesn't fly anymore, right?
It, it's only SpaceX we have, it's, we've sort
of privatized, uh, space travel.
Now, of course, you know, he's taken a bunch of subsidies.
We can make the argument exactly
how privatized it is, right?
It's undeniable that it's better than
it was under nasa, right?
We don't have the challenger exploding
and the other one exploding
and killing people left and right.
And, you know, they can't, they can't do it.
Can't get to the space station.
We're having to hitch rides
with the Russians and all this stuff.
So at least like, yeah, he's not, he's not a rough party
and he's not, probably not even a libertarian compared
to us, or even like a, a free thinker in the,
in the sense that we would use it.
Um, but it's certainly better than, uh, than what it was.
And I think that's true in terms of space travel, in terms
of, um, social media.
There's a lot of shit he does that I don't like.
Um, I've seen people censored for, like, again,
like you said, a lot of foreign policy stuff.
I think that at the end of the day, he's the businessman.
He kind of does mm-Hmm.
sort of bow to financial pressure,
which I understand.
He's gotta like sort of, you know, keep the doors open,
which it makes sense, isn't
how I would run Twitter or SpaceX.
Probably not, you know what I mean? I wouldn't be doing
government contracts or anything like that.
I wouldn't even let politicians on the platform. Right.
I wouldn't even let political speech on the platform.
- That is an interesting point.
- Yeah. I wouldn't want them to spread
violence using my platform.
So, you know, I I, I don't think he's perfect,
but I do commend him on this, this, this small steps.
- Did I lose you? - Sure.
Again, like you said, he'll be, does I
- Lost you there for a second, you said I do commend him on
and then you got cut off for a second.
- Yeah, no, I, I, I do convince him on what, you know,
progress he has made so far.
Mm-Hmm. . And like you said, you know, I,
I hope that people are right about him
in, in that sort of sense.
I don't have that, that sort
of confidence about Donald Trump
because we've already seen, um, he's already, you know,
had had the, the reins
for four years when we know he's responsible
for more inflation than any president in history
and he murdered American children in Yemen
and four years war in Afghanistan and tariffs
and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So I'm not that confident about him,
but a market actor I have much more faith in.
- Yeah, well you made an interesting point there about,
about politicians and it's an interesting concept
that we even allow, you know,
so it's this weird little game they play
where they've got the official account,
but then they've got their personal account
and they can say things and other,
and they've used them interchangeably all the time,
but then when they need to, they can pretend like
that was in my personal capacity and Right.
You know, which, which is a real thing. But on the old
- Twitter, they used to get you for, uh, like harassment.
If you went on their, um, personal account, you would have
to go onto their public account if you,
on their personal account, they could get
you for harassment.
So now I just harass them.
Now I can, but now that and you ons back,
I can harass 'em from both sides.
.
- Well, there you go. It's all worth it. .
- Right, exactly. - Well, that's good, man.
I really enjoyed talking with you today.
I think, you know, we're I I, if you wanted
to get into a couple of, you know, I really,
I think it's best, I I love the conversation we just had
and I was gonna get into a couple of, um, you know,
current events, talk about things that are going on.
I mean, you made some interesting comments about like the,
you know, the recent coup and, and stuff like that.
But I'd love to just connect with you again
and have a full of different
conversation about a lot of other stuff.
So I really like that.
I hope that this will reach some people in, in, in regard
to further, at least, at least entice them
to further understand where you're coming from
and the beliefs you have, which, most
of which I share the idea that, you know,
we just don't need the government.
And I really hope people can recognize that, that it's,
it's more simple than they understand.
And I, I, you know, love what you do, man.
So anything you wanna leave us with today, you know,
work your, wanna shout out upcoming events,
anything you wanna pro promote before we
- Leave?
Yeah, so, um, if you, if you guys,
if you're interested in the, the,
what I'm saying about anarchism ago,
check out my book Anti-Politics, which is sort of a, uh,
collection of agos essays that sort
of help people understand and digest all of that.
And my book, the American Experiment, sort of runs
through the whole, uh, historical analysis of how we got to
where we are today and,
and what sort of hope we have for the future.
So check all that stuff out. Yeah, that, there you go.
There's the page. You can find all the links there, um,
saudi worth.com/books.
Also agora threads.com for, you know, agos merchandise
and 3D printer gobert, where you can buy 3D printers
and 3D printing supplies for cryptocurrency.
So check all that stuff out. Follow me on social media.
SRIs, Sally Mayweather, I'm on all your,
your favorite platforms.
It's shouldn't be too hard to find me. So
- Outstanding.
Well, we'll, we'll have to talk later about the
three printers, .
- Yeah, absolutely. - Alright, man,
well it's been great talking with you
and I'm looking forward to talking with you again
and have everybody out there as always question everything,
come to your own conclusions.
Stay vigilant.