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Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Life of

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Your Blindness podcast. I'm your host, Tim Schwartz.

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And as always, I am joined by my

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wonderful guest host, starting with Charles Heizer. Charles,

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hello.

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Hello.

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And Ryan Palm. Ryan, how's it going?

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Pretty good. How are you?

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I've had better days as you guys both

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know, as all of us, I think, have

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had better days. My computer

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is is being ridiculous and stupid. My my

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screen readers, both of them, NVDA and JAWS,

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are really, really getting on my nerves.

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I just I'm I'm I'm frustrated, and I'm

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done, and I've just I've had it. I

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know you are too, Ryan, because your jaws

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is just being ridiculous because it

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it it I don't even know what's going

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on with yours. Yeah. I, definitely feel your

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pain on that one.

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I'm good. Everything's working on my end. Yeah.

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How dare you?

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Ugh. Yeah. It's just been frustrating trying to

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get the things to work and things to

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talk to each other and browsers to work.

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It's like, oh, one one week the browser

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works, one week the browser doesn't work, and

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then you gotta find another browser, and then

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it doesn't work. And it's just frustrating.

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But it's our life sometimes.

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Anyway, regardless of all of that, if you

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want to get a hold of us and,

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send us any comments, questions, suggestions, anything like

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that, you can send your emails to tim@lifeafterblindness.com

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or come and join us online. We've got

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a Facebook page as well as a Facebook

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group that you can interact with and chat

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with. A lot of great people out there

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having some good conversations.

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And you can follow us on Twitter at

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labcast.

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They're on Twitter, l a b c a

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s t.

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And if you'd like, you could also support

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the show by visiting Patreon. Go to patreon.com/labcast.

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And, you'll find a few tiers there that

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I think are extraordinarily reasonably priced. Even if

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you just wanna donate a little bit or

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or just, you know, just give us a

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little bit of love. We we would appreciate

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anything

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that you can do, but there are some

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great bonuses there for you as well if

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you sign up for, any of those tiers

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on Patreon. So, guys, all that out of

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the way,

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let's dive into this topic because this is

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something that kinda came up.

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I don't know. I was talking to my

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wife one night about this and

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because she she deals with, you know, a

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lot of pain issues. We've talked about this

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here on the show that, you know, she

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has back pain and and knee issues and

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nerve damage and all that kind of thing.

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And for her to do things

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in a day or even in a couple

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hours

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really just takes a lot out of her,

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and we have to plan in rest days.

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So, for example, if we go on a

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vacation

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and we do a lot in one day,

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most likely the next day is gonna be

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a rest day because she just has to

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kinda regenerate, you know, from from all the

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activity and things, especially with all the pain

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and everything that she has. And her and

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I were talking about this, and I think,

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Charles, it was you. I I said something,

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you know, kind of off the cuff about

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this whole thing. And you're like, oh, spoon

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theory. Yeah. I know about that. I'm like,

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oh, that's right. I I had totally forgotten

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that this actually was a a theory that

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someone had written up. And, basically, it boils

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down to kind of using up

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your energy or using up, you know, a

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lot of, of your

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I'm trying to to give it a broad

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statement, but, basically, using

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your energy, using your your brainpower,

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your your your everything, and how much you

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might have of it to use. So

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for a for a better breakdown of this,

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I'm gonna go to you, Charles, because,

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you went and dug out the the blog

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post for me and, and reviewed it. And

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so maybe you can explain it a little

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better, at least as it was in the

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original Spoon Theory

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blog post.

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Yeah. So

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Spoon Theory was originally conceived by a woman

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named Christine Miserandino

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who has lupus.

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The blog post that I am most familiar

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with and that I see shared around a

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lot whenever this comes up,

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is a sort of abbreviated version. There is

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a document that explains it in more detail,

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but she came up with this in 02/2003.

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So it's been around for a while, and

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it's been referenced and broadened

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since then to encompass,

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all sorts of situations, not just those who

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may be suffering from chronic pain or chronic

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fatigue,

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but, also, it's been broadened into the wider

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disability community

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because it can be applied in

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many different aspects. So

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in case you're unfamiliar with spoon theory, it

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goes a little something like this.

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One day, Christine was with a friend of

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hers eating at a diner in

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well, where wherever they were. They were in

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college at the time, and

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her

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able-bodied friend

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asks Christine,

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what is it like to be you?

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And they've been friends for a while. Apparently,

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this lady had taken her to doctor appointments,

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had seen her when she's sick. She'd been

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around, and Christine was confused about this question.

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She essentially said, well, you know what it's

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like. You've seen me do this. And she

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said, no. No. No. What is it like

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to live

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as you? What is it like to

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have your experiences

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every day? How is it different? What effect

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does lupus actually have on your ability to

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live a normal life?

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And while she was looking for inspiration to

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try and explain it, the idea of

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having a physical representation

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of the resources that everybody uses

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came to her.

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And so she grabs a bunch of spoons

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off of every table she can reach and

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hands her there's a there's a sentence in

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the blog that I really like, and it

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essentially says that the friend is given a

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bouquet of spoons and is very confused by

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this.

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And and so she hands her,

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a fistful of spoons and says,

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this is how much energy you have in

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the day. This is it. You don't get

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anymore.

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What are you gonna do today?

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And the friend says, oh, I'm gonna get

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ready for the day, and then I'm gonna

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and she goes, no. No. No. No. No.

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No. No. You need to get out of

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bed. You need to be able to go

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take a shower. You need to be able

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to make yourself something to eat. All of

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this costs spoons.

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And the post breaks down how

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the friend is surprised

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that Christine can go through a morning routine

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but lose half of her energy that she

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has for the entire day just by getting

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ready for that day.

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So spoon theory blossomed into this idea

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that people with chronic disabilities

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only get so much resources

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because their disability might take up the rest

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of the resources that an able-bodied person would

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otherwise have.

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Christine's

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whole point was that

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lupus restricts her

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in ways that people

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just can't conceive of unless they have some

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kind of chronic illness. And so the spoon

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theory allows her to

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demonstrate it in a in a very physical,

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tactile way

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to get this point across.

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And

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as we have

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broadened spoon theory to the larger disability community,

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we've talked about things like your mental capacity

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to advocate for yourself might hold you back

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from going into public situations

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that will cost you more spoons than the

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average person who doesn't have to advocate for

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themselves.

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Or

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you may suffer from

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you may suffer from a sensory overload, for

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example, and dealing with the the fallback of

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that would cost spoons that you may not

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be prepared to spend.

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So

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today, we wanted to talk about

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what spoon theory looks like for a blind

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person and how we can apply that to

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our everyday lives.

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Very well said, Charles, because it is something

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that

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I believe is overlooked or not even thought

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of necessarily when it comes to blindness. I

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mean, I have discussed this in part in

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other places where we've kind of touched on

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the idea of this, but not directly

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related to spoon theory and breaking it down

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this way. And so that's why I wanted

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to do this episode because I really think

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this is something that's important because I know

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like, my wife, for example, as I mentioned

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before,

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she's, you know, got a handicap, you know,

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parking,

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you know, thing in her car. And she'll

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park and then she'll go to get out

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of the car. And she's had people yelling

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at her, like, you're not disabled. What's what?

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You can't park there. And

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it's it's like, but you aren't seeing my

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disability. You're not seeing what it took to

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get me

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up and out and here to begin with.

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And after I'm finished in the grocery store

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or in the wherever she's, you know, at,

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They're not seeing how her body's gonna react

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when she's finished. You know, that walk from

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the car to the store and then back

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again after walking around a store,

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I mean, that's it. You know? And and

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so it's it's one of those nonvisual type

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disabilities.

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For us, unless we've got our guide dog

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with us or got a a white cane

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out, you know, with us,

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people don't necessarily

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know and and notice, you know, that you

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know, like, if you're just sitting at a

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table in a restaurant and you've got your

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cane tucked away and they didn't see you

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come in, they don't maybe know that you're

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blind. And so they say things or or

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do things or react in a way that

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they don't, you know, that they because they

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just don't understand or they don't know,

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and you're going through things

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that you're trying to deal with that others

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around you may not realize. So I think

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it's really important to talk about this and

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be open about this because

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we all go through this, whether we were

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born blind like Ryan or, you know, lost

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vision over time like you and me, Charles.

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This does affect all of us. And so

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to that point, Charles, you mentioned

271
00:09:57,174 --> 00:09:59,654
about sensory overload. And I talked to Ryan

272
00:09:59,654 --> 00:10:02,235
about this because I know from my perception,

273
00:10:02,375 --> 00:10:03,674
my my experience,

274
00:10:04,134 --> 00:10:06,134
you know, having low vision at one point

275
00:10:06,134 --> 00:10:07,115
and losing vision,

276
00:10:07,495 --> 00:10:08,394
the just

277
00:10:09,389 --> 00:10:12,190
how hard it would be sometimes to have

278
00:10:12,190 --> 00:10:13,789
to read something for a long period of

279
00:10:13,789 --> 00:10:15,309
time or sit in front of a computer

280
00:10:15,309 --> 00:10:17,389
visually, and the strain that would take my

281
00:10:17,389 --> 00:10:19,309
eyes and and my mental capacity and all

282
00:10:19,309 --> 00:10:21,764
that. But, Ryan, you've been blind since birth,

283
00:10:21,764 --> 00:10:23,445
so you've not had to to deal with

284
00:10:23,445 --> 00:10:26,085
the visual aspect of, oh, my eyes are

285
00:10:26,085 --> 00:10:28,004
tired and hurting, and now I've got a

286
00:10:28,004 --> 00:10:29,865
headache. But you definitely

287
00:10:30,325 --> 00:10:32,485
have a lot of other things as it

288
00:10:32,485 --> 00:10:34,884
relates to this greater idea of spoon theory

289
00:10:34,884 --> 00:10:35,384
where

290
00:10:36,029 --> 00:10:38,429
you get overloaded or you get worn out

291
00:10:38,429 --> 00:10:40,269
or you get tired and and are still

292
00:10:40,269 --> 00:10:41,409
affected. Right, Ryan?

293
00:10:41,949 --> 00:10:42,690
Oh, yeah.

294
00:10:43,389 --> 00:10:45,809
Having to listen to multiple things.

295
00:10:46,350 --> 00:10:47,809
I'm one of these that,

296
00:10:48,195 --> 00:10:49,095
you know, using

297
00:10:49,715 --> 00:10:51,254
JAWS or voice over,

298
00:10:51,634 --> 00:10:53,794
if I have to do that, I really

299
00:10:53,794 --> 00:10:56,934
can't sit and listen to music or,

300
00:10:57,634 --> 00:10:59,075
you know, really be in kind of a

301
00:10:59,075 --> 00:11:00,995
crowded place and do much with it because

302
00:11:00,995 --> 00:11:03,154
I have to concentrate on what it is

303
00:11:03,154 --> 00:11:03,815
I'm doing.

304
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,820
Even having a general conversation,

305
00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:10,220
I'm finding as I get older

306
00:11:10,759 --> 00:11:12,300
that if I'm in a very,

307
00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,200
kinda cavernous, you know, restaurant let's face it.

308
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,120
A lot of restaurants and stuff get really

309
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:18,620
loud

310
00:11:19,274 --> 00:11:21,595
going, you know, be between them singing, you

311
00:11:21,595 --> 00:11:23,855
know, happy birthday to different people and

312
00:11:24,235 --> 00:11:27,054
just everybody chatting and and doing their thing.

313
00:11:27,274 --> 00:11:28,254
I find myself,

314
00:11:29,595 --> 00:11:31,774
zoning out. Like, I really was actually,

315
00:11:32,909 --> 00:11:35,309
thinking about this this past weekend when my

316
00:11:35,309 --> 00:11:36,690
family went out to dinner.

317
00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:38,830
I tried to be, you know, a part

318
00:11:38,830 --> 00:11:40,830
of the conversation and and stuff, and I

319
00:11:40,830 --> 00:11:42,830
was for the most part. But when it

320
00:11:42,830 --> 00:11:45,149
got really loud, I found myself just kind

321
00:11:45,149 --> 00:11:46,909
of shutting down and going

322
00:11:47,585 --> 00:11:49,184
I don't even know what my wife who's

323
00:11:49,184 --> 00:11:51,105
sitting right next to me is saying. I

324
00:11:51,105 --> 00:11:51,845
could hear

325
00:11:53,024 --> 00:11:53,524
clearer

326
00:11:53,904 --> 00:11:56,325
the woman that was three tables over

327
00:11:57,024 --> 00:11:57,924
talking about

328
00:11:58,544 --> 00:12:00,785
her I don't know. She was talking about,

329
00:12:00,785 --> 00:12:01,409
you know,

330
00:12:01,889 --> 00:12:04,470
an outfit not fitting right because she's pregnant

331
00:12:05,089 --> 00:12:05,589
and

332
00:12:06,209 --> 00:12:08,209
not knowing whether she should order dessert or

333
00:12:08,209 --> 00:12:09,190
not. I'm going,

334
00:12:09,649 --> 00:12:11,169
why do I care about that? But yet

335
00:12:11,169 --> 00:12:12,529
I can hear that plain as day, and

336
00:12:12,529 --> 00:12:13,429
I'm paying attention.

337
00:12:14,529 --> 00:12:15,990
So it just kind of

338
00:12:16,365 --> 00:12:17,904
really varies on the environment.

339
00:12:18,684 --> 00:12:20,784
That sensory overload can be

340
00:12:21,644 --> 00:12:24,924
really, really overwhelming. I I was talking to

341
00:12:24,924 --> 00:12:26,684
you the other day about, you know, I

342
00:12:26,684 --> 00:12:28,524
had gone to a benefit and, you know,

343
00:12:28,524 --> 00:12:30,580
just raised money for something, And there was

344
00:12:30,580 --> 00:12:32,580
hundreds of people there. And by the time

345
00:12:32,580 --> 00:12:34,179
we got there, the only table that was

346
00:12:34,179 --> 00:12:36,740
really left was right by the stage where

347
00:12:36,740 --> 00:12:38,019
a band was playing, and there was a

348
00:12:38,019 --> 00:12:39,320
big speaker right there.

349
00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:42,100
And so we were down, you know, by

350
00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:43,779
the band in front of the speaker, but

351
00:12:43,779 --> 00:12:46,404
then everybody talking, everybody being loud,

352
00:12:46,865 --> 00:12:48,465
all this stuff going on. And I just

353
00:12:48,465 --> 00:12:50,865
had to put my head on the table

354
00:12:50,865 --> 00:12:52,165
almost, like, face down,

355
00:12:52,545 --> 00:12:54,705
then wrap my arms, like, my forearms, my

356
00:12:54,705 --> 00:12:56,545
elbows around the back of my head and

357
00:12:56,545 --> 00:12:57,539
covering my ears

358
00:12:58,100 --> 00:12:59,459
because I just couldn't do it. I mean,

359
00:12:59,459 --> 00:13:00,120
I was

360
00:13:00,740 --> 00:13:01,720
so overwhelmed

361
00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:04,019
and, I mean, it almost brought me to

362
00:13:04,019 --> 00:13:06,039
tears quite honestly because I just

363
00:13:06,419 --> 00:13:08,419
I was so overwhelmed and we finally were

364
00:13:08,419 --> 00:13:10,575
able to get me moved somewhere else and,

365
00:13:10,735 --> 00:13:12,254
know, kinda get away from the stage and

366
00:13:12,254 --> 00:13:13,375
get to where there was a little bit

367
00:13:13,375 --> 00:13:14,995
more of a quiet corner. But

368
00:13:15,375 --> 00:13:17,615
that sensory overload is no joke. And and

369
00:13:17,615 --> 00:13:19,154
I know that can happen to anybody,

370
00:13:19,535 --> 00:13:20,355
but especially

371
00:13:20,975 --> 00:13:22,735
to us and and, you know, it's that

372
00:13:22,735 --> 00:13:24,915
whole myth of, you know, we get superpowers

373
00:13:24,975 --> 00:13:26,549
with our other senses when our our our

374
00:13:26,549 --> 00:13:28,549
vision goes. But as you guys know and

375
00:13:28,549 --> 00:13:30,309
and I'm sure our listeners know, you know,

376
00:13:30,309 --> 00:13:32,570
it's more of just heightened sense of awareness

377
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:34,169
and training your other senses

378
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:36,950
to do better. And, well, when you've focused

379
00:13:36,950 --> 00:13:38,894
so many years or so long on

380
00:13:39,375 --> 00:13:42,495
really tuning into other things and listening and

381
00:13:42,495 --> 00:13:45,215
focusing and all that, and you take the

382
00:13:45,215 --> 00:13:46,514
visuals out of it,

383
00:13:46,894 --> 00:13:49,795
and that all that comes in at once,

384
00:13:50,254 --> 00:13:52,335
you know, I I I it's just it

385
00:13:52,335 --> 00:13:54,799
is really hard. So my question then for

386
00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:57,440
you, Ryan, because you are a drummer, you

387
00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:58,960
performed with a lot of bands in your

388
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,100
life, I know you haven't done,

389
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,040
much performing, you know, recently. But when you

390
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,419
did or when you have,

391
00:14:04,879 --> 00:14:06,720
how has that been being up on stage

392
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,294
and trying to hear the other, you know,

393
00:14:08,454 --> 00:14:11,095
performers, the other musicians on stage, hearing a

394
00:14:11,095 --> 00:14:12,855
crowd, maybe playing in a bar where there's

395
00:14:12,855 --> 00:14:14,855
a lot of, you know, other noise going

396
00:14:14,855 --> 00:14:17,014
on? I mean, is that something I'm sure

397
00:14:17,014 --> 00:14:18,954
that probably gets overwhelming for you too.

398
00:14:19,495 --> 00:14:20,235
It can.

399
00:14:20,695 --> 00:14:23,990
I had to invest in and not just

400
00:14:24,610 --> 00:14:26,850
for hearing protection, but it was to block

401
00:14:26,850 --> 00:14:27,350
out

402
00:14:27,730 --> 00:14:29,570
some of these frequencies. I had to invest

403
00:14:29,570 --> 00:14:31,269
in really good earplugs

404
00:14:31,970 --> 00:14:34,049
that would allow me to hear what was

405
00:14:34,049 --> 00:14:36,290
going on stage, but it would pretty much

406
00:14:36,290 --> 00:14:37,095
block out

407
00:14:37,495 --> 00:14:38,074
the rest.

408
00:14:39,254 --> 00:14:41,574
I couldn't do it without them. I tried

409
00:14:41,574 --> 00:14:43,174
a few times and stuff like that, and

410
00:14:43,174 --> 00:14:44,235
I I could not

411
00:14:44,615 --> 00:14:45,115
between

412
00:14:45,975 --> 00:14:48,454
how loud, you know, cymbals were and different

413
00:14:48,454 --> 00:14:51,034
things and and other frequencies, I could not

414
00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:54,799
hone in enough to pay attention for the

415
00:14:54,799 --> 00:14:55,299
show.

416
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,259
That had been really hard.

417
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:00,720
I know something else that you mentioned to

418
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,879
me the other day, Ryan, I hadn't thought

419
00:15:02,879 --> 00:15:05,285
about because I'm not really a great braille

420
00:15:05,285 --> 00:15:06,884
reader. And I'm sure, Charles, you can talk

421
00:15:06,884 --> 00:15:07,865
on this as well.

422
00:15:08,245 --> 00:15:10,164
I I've tried braille. I've tried to learn

423
00:15:10,164 --> 00:15:12,164
it, but I learned it too late. I

424
00:15:12,164 --> 00:15:13,684
should have taken it in high school, but

425
00:15:13,684 --> 00:15:15,524
that's either here or there, when it was

426
00:15:15,524 --> 00:15:17,205
offered to me. But either way, I I

427
00:15:17,205 --> 00:15:18,965
don't really read braille, but I know you

428
00:15:18,965 --> 00:15:22,009
guys do. And, Ryan, you mentioned about, you

429
00:15:22,009 --> 00:15:24,970
know, braille pins or braille dots or especially,

430
00:15:24,970 --> 00:15:27,470
you know, like your electronic type braille devices

431
00:15:27,769 --> 00:15:29,370
where they can be too sharp or too

432
00:15:29,370 --> 00:15:29,870
pointed.

433
00:15:30,410 --> 00:15:33,129
And even not being too sharp or pointed

434
00:15:33,129 --> 00:15:34,269
or or what have you,

435
00:15:34,675 --> 00:15:37,555
that can still be a sensory overload similar

436
00:15:37,555 --> 00:15:40,675
to someone with low vision who only has

437
00:15:40,675 --> 00:15:42,915
so many spoons as it were to read

438
00:15:42,915 --> 00:15:44,595
for so much you know, so many minutes

439
00:15:44,595 --> 00:15:45,875
at a time or or whatever it might

440
00:15:45,875 --> 00:15:46,289
be.

441
00:15:46,769 --> 00:15:48,289
You were mentioning how braille could be a

442
00:15:48,289 --> 00:15:50,370
very similar thing where your fingertips are just

443
00:15:50,370 --> 00:15:52,289
like, nope. That's it. I'm done. I can't

444
00:15:52,289 --> 00:15:53,589
do this anymore. Right?

445
00:15:54,049 --> 00:15:56,209
Yeah. It's like anything. I mean, your fingers

446
00:15:56,209 --> 00:15:57,429
eventually get tired

447
00:15:57,809 --> 00:15:58,309
and

448
00:15:58,894 --> 00:16:01,134
you, you know, words start to kinda run

449
00:16:01,134 --> 00:16:02,355
together and things

450
00:16:02,894 --> 00:16:05,215
and but it all kinda lumps together. I

451
00:16:05,215 --> 00:16:06,115
mean, you can

452
00:16:06,495 --> 00:16:08,495
have the same problem if you're trying to

453
00:16:08,495 --> 00:16:08,995
read

454
00:16:09,375 --> 00:16:10,514
in a busy

455
00:16:11,054 --> 00:16:11,554
room.

456
00:16:12,149 --> 00:16:12,809
You can

457
00:16:13,429 --> 00:16:15,350
probably, you know, tell somebody these are the

458
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:17,110
words I read, but can you really tell

459
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:17,610
them

460
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:18,970
what you read?

461
00:16:19,589 --> 00:16:21,850
You know, what was what was it about?

462
00:16:21,909 --> 00:16:23,429
What did you learn from it? Or are

463
00:16:23,429 --> 00:16:24,809
you just reading the words

464
00:16:25,235 --> 00:16:25,894
and not

465
00:16:26,514 --> 00:16:27,735
really gathering the information

466
00:16:28,115 --> 00:16:29,414
because of all the noise

467
00:16:29,875 --> 00:16:31,174
and stuff like that?

468
00:16:32,274 --> 00:16:34,434
I know when I was in school for

469
00:16:34,434 --> 00:16:36,195
a little while, I attempted to go back

470
00:16:36,195 --> 00:16:36,855
to college.

471
00:16:37,875 --> 00:16:39,394
When I had to read and had to

472
00:16:39,394 --> 00:16:40,375
do other things,

473
00:16:40,889 --> 00:16:42,809
I couldn't be in the living room with

474
00:16:42,809 --> 00:16:44,170
the rest of my family if they were

475
00:16:44,170 --> 00:16:45,149
watching TV

476
00:16:45,929 --> 00:16:48,410
and doing things, or my wife was on

477
00:16:48,410 --> 00:16:51,070
her computer and stuff like that. I couldn't

478
00:16:51,210 --> 00:16:53,309
do it because it was too much stuff.

479
00:16:53,769 --> 00:16:56,274
She's one that she can have, you know,

480
00:16:56,274 --> 00:16:57,414
a TV going,

481
00:16:57,875 --> 00:16:58,695
her computer,

482
00:16:59,315 --> 00:17:00,054
my phone,

483
00:17:00,995 --> 00:17:02,514
an echo. I mean, she can have all

484
00:17:02,514 --> 00:17:04,914
this stuff going and be perfectly fine. And

485
00:17:04,914 --> 00:17:06,434
I'm looking at her going, how are you

486
00:17:06,434 --> 00:17:07,174
doing this?

487
00:17:08,279 --> 00:17:10,600
Yeah. I can I can understand that? I

488
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,100
have found that I have, like, an upper

489
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,259
audio limit. I can listen to three, maybe

490
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,119
four things at the same time, but they

491
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,200
can't be too similar. Otherwise, one of them

492
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,195
gets tuned out, and I notice I get

493
00:17:24,195 --> 00:17:27,154
very frustrated very quickly because I'm trying to

494
00:17:27,154 --> 00:17:29,154
pay attention to everything, and I just I

495
00:17:29,154 --> 00:17:30,214
can't do it.

496
00:17:31,315 --> 00:17:32,934
So, usually, I can have

497
00:17:33,474 --> 00:17:34,855
a screen reader going,

498
00:17:35,315 --> 00:17:37,095
some music or a show,

499
00:17:37,940 --> 00:17:39,240
and a conversation.

500
00:17:40,180 --> 00:17:40,839
I can't

501
00:17:41,140 --> 00:17:43,000
listen to all three precisely

502
00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:45,220
at the same time, but I can move

503
00:17:45,220 --> 00:17:47,539
between them quickly enough that it kind of

504
00:17:47,539 --> 00:17:49,539
appears like I'm listening to all three at

505
00:17:49,539 --> 00:17:50,359
the same time.

506
00:17:51,904 --> 00:17:53,505
But a good example of when I didn't

507
00:17:53,505 --> 00:17:56,404
have enough spoons to process everything

508
00:17:56,784 --> 00:17:57,284
was

509
00:17:57,825 --> 00:18:01,105
last night at about 10:00 at night, my

510
00:18:01,105 --> 00:18:03,284
girlfriend came over, and

511
00:18:04,170 --> 00:18:06,970
she did not know that I was laying

512
00:18:06,970 --> 00:18:09,930
on my bed with earphones in using my

513
00:18:09,930 --> 00:18:12,490
phone. So I already had two things going.

514
00:18:12,490 --> 00:18:15,230
I had voice over, and I had music.

515
00:18:15,850 --> 00:18:17,070
And I was

516
00:18:17,494 --> 00:18:18,315
doing something,

517
00:18:18,775 --> 00:18:21,095
like, actively doing something on my phone. And

518
00:18:21,095 --> 00:18:22,855
she walks into my room and just starts

519
00:18:22,855 --> 00:18:25,434
talking to me because that's a normal interaction.

520
00:18:26,134 --> 00:18:29,349
Well, I had used my spoons for the

521
00:18:29,349 --> 00:18:32,230
day. My physical, emotional, and mental spoons were

522
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:34,169
all down to, like, one. Alright?

523
00:18:34,869 --> 00:18:38,230
And she walks in, and the last physical

524
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:41,269
spoon was immediately spent on there's another audio

525
00:18:41,269 --> 00:18:42,950
process I need to listen to, and I

526
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:44,744
just can't. And I just ran out of

527
00:18:44,744 --> 00:18:45,965
spoons right then.

528
00:18:46,505 --> 00:18:49,005
And luckily, I sort of caught it

529
00:18:49,305 --> 00:18:50,365
as it was happening.

530
00:18:51,144 --> 00:18:52,605
So instead of getting frustrated,

531
00:18:53,144 --> 00:18:53,644
I

532
00:18:54,184 --> 00:18:56,505
very quickly turned off the music, because I

533
00:18:56,505 --> 00:18:59,299
can do two of them without needing as

534
00:18:59,299 --> 00:19:00,039
many spoons.

535
00:19:00,580 --> 00:19:01,080
So

536
00:19:01,779 --> 00:19:03,620
I I caught it. I dealt with it,

537
00:19:03,620 --> 00:19:05,620
and it was fine. But there have been

538
00:19:05,620 --> 00:19:08,580
situations where I wasn't prepared or I didn't

539
00:19:08,580 --> 00:19:09,640
have enough spoons,

540
00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:10,068
and I've had to remove myself from situations

541
00:19:10,068 --> 00:19:10,680
because I just can't handle it. Yeah. You're

542
00:19:11,140 --> 00:19:13,434
you're myself from situations because I just can't

543
00:19:13,434 --> 00:19:14,255
handle it.

544
00:19:14,634 --> 00:19:16,714
Yeah. You're you're a step ahead of me

545
00:19:16,714 --> 00:19:18,095
because I I find myself

546
00:19:18,474 --> 00:19:19,694
you know, if I'm watching

547
00:19:19,994 --> 00:19:23,115
YouTube or even listening to music or something

548
00:19:23,115 --> 00:19:25,650
and somebody says, hey, Ryan, and they wanna

549
00:19:25,650 --> 00:19:27,250
talk to me about something. I have to

550
00:19:27,250 --> 00:19:27,750
pause

551
00:19:28,369 --> 00:19:29,509
whatever it is

552
00:19:29,809 --> 00:19:31,650
and then totally focus on them. Be like,

553
00:19:31,650 --> 00:19:32,930
alright. Cool. What do you, you know, what

554
00:19:32,930 --> 00:19:33,970
do you need, or what do you wanna

555
00:19:33,970 --> 00:19:36,210
tell me or whatever. Especially if it's your

556
00:19:36,210 --> 00:19:37,890
wife because, you know, if you you don't

557
00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:39,275
focus, you're gonna be in trouble.

558
00:19:40,055 --> 00:19:42,394
Mhmm. I'd rather not go down that path.

559
00:19:42,535 --> 00:19:43,035
Mhmm.

560
00:19:44,055 --> 00:19:45,494
No. But I think that's a that's a

561
00:19:45,494 --> 00:19:46,555
good point. And

562
00:19:46,855 --> 00:19:47,355
the,

563
00:19:48,055 --> 00:19:50,394
you know, audible sensory overload

564
00:19:51,049 --> 00:19:53,769
can be so terrifying, quite honestly. I mean,

565
00:19:53,769 --> 00:19:55,769
it can be like what you were explaining,

566
00:19:55,769 --> 00:19:57,630
Charles, of just like, okay. I'm frustrated.

567
00:19:58,169 --> 00:20:00,009
I've gotta kill at least one or more

568
00:20:00,009 --> 00:20:01,529
of these so that I can pay attention

569
00:20:01,529 --> 00:20:03,390
and focus to what's going on around me.

570
00:20:03,450 --> 00:20:05,355
And that can just be frustrating. And that

571
00:20:05,355 --> 00:20:07,434
and that definitely happens. But it can be

572
00:20:07,595 --> 00:20:08,954
like, I was talking about when I was

573
00:20:08,954 --> 00:20:10,654
at that that fundraiser where

574
00:20:11,035 --> 00:20:13,454
it was so overwhelming. And so,

575
00:20:13,994 --> 00:20:16,174
you know, the the audible you know,

576
00:20:16,875 --> 00:20:18,494
the the the overwhelmingness

577
00:20:18,795 --> 00:20:19,454
of it

578
00:20:20,289 --> 00:20:21,269
made it an emotional

579
00:20:21,730 --> 00:20:23,490
issue. It wasn't just, okay. I've got a

580
00:20:23,490 --> 00:20:25,089
headache and my ears are ringing and I

581
00:20:25,089 --> 00:20:27,410
can't take this. Right. It's closing it around

582
00:20:27,410 --> 00:20:29,269
me and I can't do this right now.

583
00:20:29,410 --> 00:20:31,589
But then that sparks, of course, an emotional

584
00:20:31,809 --> 00:20:32,309
response,

585
00:20:33,065 --> 00:20:34,825
and that happens a lot. Like you said,

586
00:20:34,825 --> 00:20:36,345
Charles, when you were setting this up with

587
00:20:36,345 --> 00:20:36,845
us,

588
00:20:37,305 --> 00:20:39,065
you know, with with The Spoon Theory and

589
00:20:39,065 --> 00:20:41,244
what it's become, there is an emotional

590
00:20:42,265 --> 00:20:44,684
side of this with The Spoon Theory because

591
00:20:45,059 --> 00:20:46,339
there is only so much you can take

592
00:20:46,339 --> 00:20:47,960
as you were talking about advocacy.

593
00:20:48,419 --> 00:20:50,659
You know, there's you get frustrated. You know,

594
00:20:50,659 --> 00:20:52,579
you're talking or trying to fight for something

595
00:20:52,579 --> 00:20:53,880
or advocate for something.

596
00:20:54,259 --> 00:20:56,579
And anybody, no matter what your situation is,

597
00:20:56,579 --> 00:20:58,339
even if you're not disabled, you're gonna get

598
00:20:58,339 --> 00:21:01,465
frustrated. There's an emotional allotment that you have

599
00:21:01,465 --> 00:21:03,244
before you're just done.

600
00:21:03,705 --> 00:21:06,285
And sometimes when you're adding that in

601
00:21:06,825 --> 00:21:07,325
to

602
00:21:07,785 --> 00:21:10,184
other things you've already got going on, you

603
00:21:10,184 --> 00:21:12,869
know, you're trying to to read something with

604
00:21:12,869 --> 00:21:14,630
braille or read something even with your eyes

605
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:17,210
with the limited vision you've got. There's conversations

606
00:21:17,349 --> 00:21:19,109
going on around you and there's, you know,

607
00:21:19,109 --> 00:21:21,609
maybe music playing and, you know, and then

608
00:21:21,670 --> 00:21:23,430
at the same time, you're you're like, well,

609
00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:25,029
let me check this because I wanna read

610
00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:27,430
this. And, well, you you need to understand

611
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:29,644
that, you know, as an advocate for myself,

612
00:21:29,644 --> 00:21:31,404
I need to, you know, x y z,

613
00:21:31,404 --> 00:21:31,904
whatever.

614
00:21:32,445 --> 00:21:34,605
So much is going on at once. And,

615
00:21:34,605 --> 00:21:35,105
again,

616
00:21:35,644 --> 00:21:38,045
it can happen to anybody, disability or not.

617
00:21:38,045 --> 00:21:39,565
So I know Ryan, you know, in in

618
00:21:39,565 --> 00:21:41,900
talking with you about this kind of stuff

619
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:44,240
and and just knowing you and our friendship

620
00:21:44,299 --> 00:21:45,839
going going, you know, backward,

621
00:21:46,380 --> 00:21:48,460
you've been dealing a lot lately with a

622
00:21:48,460 --> 00:21:50,480
seizure disorder that your doctors can't

623
00:21:50,859 --> 00:21:53,214
figure out. You know, they just keep throwing

624
00:21:53,214 --> 00:21:54,914
things at it and can't figure it out.

625
00:21:54,974 --> 00:21:57,615
And so now you're in another level of

626
00:21:57,615 --> 00:21:59,375
this, I guess, in a way with spoon

627
00:21:59,375 --> 00:22:01,855
theory because, you know, you've got your blindness,

628
00:22:01,855 --> 00:22:02,514
of course,

629
00:22:02,974 --> 00:22:04,894
and all the things that go along with

630
00:22:04,894 --> 00:22:06,990
that with the sensory overload and, you know,

631
00:22:06,990 --> 00:22:09,009
tactile overload and all that kind of stuff.

632
00:22:09,309 --> 00:22:11,470
But now you're dealing with seizures where they

633
00:22:11,470 --> 00:22:12,670
wake you up in the middle of the

634
00:22:12,670 --> 00:22:14,509
night or you're watching TV on the couch

635
00:22:14,509 --> 00:22:16,690
and you have a seizure and, you know,

636
00:22:16,750 --> 00:22:19,490
fall over or you're walking and fall and,

637
00:22:19,549 --> 00:22:20,990
you know, all that kind of stuff and

638
00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:21,315
just

639
00:22:21,794 --> 00:22:24,454
the scariness of that, the emotions of that

640
00:22:25,394 --> 00:22:27,394
adds a whole another dimension to this, I'm

641
00:22:27,394 --> 00:22:27,894
sure.

642
00:22:28,434 --> 00:22:30,835
It does because you just don't know, at

643
00:22:30,835 --> 00:22:33,014
least with mine anyway. Some people

644
00:22:33,679 --> 00:22:36,160
can feel it coming on. Some people have,

645
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:37,220
you know, a warning.

646
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:38,819
I don't.

647
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,039
If if I'm gonna have one, I just

648
00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:41,700
have one.

649
00:22:42,079 --> 00:22:43,759
So it's that kind of in the back

650
00:22:43,759 --> 00:22:46,494
of my head going, okay. Am I gonna

651
00:22:46,494 --> 00:22:48,494
be walking through the grocery store and and

652
00:22:48,494 --> 00:22:49,714
have one or,

653
00:22:50,015 --> 00:22:52,035
you know, walking down the street or whatever

654
00:22:52,095 --> 00:22:54,894
and one's gonna come up? Thankfully, it hasn't

655
00:22:54,894 --> 00:22:55,795
happened yet.

656
00:22:57,694 --> 00:22:59,615
But you just kinda have those thoughts of,

657
00:22:59,615 --> 00:23:00,115
like,

658
00:23:00,494 --> 00:23:02,569
okay. If I get too overwhelmed,

659
00:23:03,109 --> 00:23:05,190
that could cause it. You know, stress and

660
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:06,549
stuff like that is one of the number

661
00:23:06,549 --> 00:23:07,049
one

662
00:23:07,509 --> 00:23:08,009
causes,

663
00:23:09,589 --> 00:23:11,109
to have a seizure and stuff. So it's

664
00:23:11,109 --> 00:23:13,450
like I've got to find ways to just

665
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:17,130
kinda mellow myself out and not get too

666
00:23:18,524 --> 00:23:21,404
stressed out, super focused, you know, on stuff

667
00:23:21,404 --> 00:23:24,044
and just realize, okay. I can figure this

668
00:23:24,044 --> 00:23:25,825
out. Just take a minute.

669
00:23:26,284 --> 00:23:27,184
I can remember

670
00:23:27,964 --> 00:23:29,484
it had nothing to do with the seizures

671
00:23:29,484 --> 00:23:31,484
because they hadn't happened yet. But I remember

672
00:23:31,484 --> 00:23:31,984
being

673
00:23:32,650 --> 00:23:33,369
at the,

674
00:23:34,890 --> 00:23:35,390
national

675
00:23:36,490 --> 00:23:39,210
conference for the NFB a few years ago

676
00:23:39,210 --> 00:23:40,589
when it was in Las Vegas.

677
00:23:41,369 --> 00:23:41,869
And

678
00:23:42,329 --> 00:23:44,329
I'm blanking on the hotel right now, but

679
00:23:44,329 --> 00:23:45,950
it was a massive hotel.

680
00:23:46,664 --> 00:23:47,164
And

681
00:23:47,625 --> 00:23:49,545
you get there, and they're basically you know,

682
00:23:49,545 --> 00:23:52,205
it's basically, okay. You're here. Figure it out.

683
00:23:52,345 --> 00:23:53,884
Figure out where you gotta go.

684
00:23:54,184 --> 00:23:56,045
And it's us and, you know,

685
00:23:56,345 --> 00:23:58,125
3,000 other blind people.

686
00:23:58,980 --> 00:23:59,480
So

687
00:24:00,019 --> 00:24:01,619
to kinda give you a mental picture of

688
00:24:01,619 --> 00:24:03,619
it, I mean, there's canes tapping all over

689
00:24:03,619 --> 00:24:05,000
the place. There's dogs.

690
00:24:05,460 --> 00:24:05,960
There's,

691
00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:07,400
they had,

692
00:24:08,740 --> 00:24:09,240
people

693
00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:10,680
that were, like,

694
00:24:11,025 --> 00:24:14,065
traffic directors basically going, you know, hey. If

695
00:24:14,065 --> 00:24:17,105
you're looking for the exhibit hall right this

696
00:24:17,105 --> 00:24:19,285
way and people looking for,

697
00:24:20,144 --> 00:24:22,224
the main conference room right this way, so

698
00:24:22,224 --> 00:24:24,545
you have all the the, you know, the

699
00:24:24,545 --> 00:24:25,924
people shouting directions.

700
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:27,900
You have

701
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,519
other people, you know, bumping into people and

702
00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:32,839
Kane like I said, Kane's tapping and going,

703
00:24:32,839 --> 00:24:34,619
oh, sorry, man. I'm trying to find

704
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,359
such and such a place. Do you know

705
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,000
where to go? You had bands playing. You

706
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,720
had casinos going off and all this other

707
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,835
stuff. So I can remember just one morning

708
00:24:45,855 --> 00:24:47,075
getting off the elevator

709
00:24:47,615 --> 00:24:50,414
and just stopping, like, right in the middle

710
00:24:50,414 --> 00:24:51,875
of the hallway and and

711
00:24:52,815 --> 00:24:55,315
no pun intended, but looking around going,

712
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,059
where the hell am I?

713
00:24:57,759 --> 00:24:59,200
And and how do I get where I

714
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,799
need to go and just and having to

715
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:01,299
stop

716
00:25:01,759 --> 00:25:04,080
and process everything and go, okay. I can

717
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,559
do this. I can figure it out. I've

718
00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:08,500
been here before. What did I,

719
00:25:09,025 --> 00:25:10,404
quote, unquote, see

720
00:25:11,105 --> 00:25:12,944
to let me know where I'm at? And

721
00:25:12,944 --> 00:25:15,025
you gotta remember some of the tactile things

722
00:25:15,025 --> 00:25:17,265
and, oh, wait. I hear the casino to

723
00:25:17,265 --> 00:25:19,345
my right. That's good. That's where I want

724
00:25:19,345 --> 00:25:20,944
it. I need to go, you know, keep

725
00:25:20,944 --> 00:25:23,045
going forward and go past the edge

726
00:25:23,450 --> 00:25:25,130
of the casino here, and I'll get where

727
00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:27,289
I need to go. But there you you

728
00:25:27,289 --> 00:25:28,750
have to kinda teach yourself

729
00:25:29,930 --> 00:25:30,430
ways

730
00:25:31,049 --> 00:25:33,150
to not get overwhelmed and learn

731
00:25:34,009 --> 00:25:34,509
those

732
00:25:35,450 --> 00:25:37,849
feelings that you can start to feel within

733
00:25:37,849 --> 00:25:41,095
yourself of, I'm getting a little panicky. I'm

734
00:25:41,095 --> 00:25:44,295
getting a little overwhelmed, whatever it is, before

735
00:25:44,295 --> 00:25:45,275
you kind of

736
00:25:45,815 --> 00:25:47,115
go over that proverbial

737
00:25:47,974 --> 00:25:49,674
cliff and it's too late.

738
00:25:50,695 --> 00:25:52,295
That makes a lot of sense, and that

739
00:25:52,295 --> 00:25:54,890
can absolutely be be frightening with that much

740
00:25:54,890 --> 00:25:57,710
sensory overload and being lost and being confused

741
00:25:57,769 --> 00:25:59,289
in in a place that you're not familiar

742
00:25:59,289 --> 00:26:01,369
with and so many other people and all

743
00:26:01,369 --> 00:26:03,230
of that going on at once. I mean,

744
00:26:03,289 --> 00:26:04,589
there goes your your

745
00:26:04,890 --> 00:26:07,849
daily spoons right then and there. Charles, I

746
00:26:07,849 --> 00:26:10,115
wanna get your thought on that because I'm

747
00:26:10,115 --> 00:26:11,714
absolutely sure that you've been through that as

748
00:26:11,714 --> 00:26:12,914
well. But before I do that, I wanna

749
00:26:12,914 --> 00:26:13,414
rewind

750
00:26:13,714 --> 00:26:15,554
just a little bit, Ryan, because I wanna

751
00:26:15,554 --> 00:26:17,414
ask you a question about the seizures.

752
00:26:18,595 --> 00:26:19,575
When you

753
00:26:19,875 --> 00:26:22,169
have the seizures, my my brother has a

754
00:26:22,169 --> 00:26:24,250
seizure disorder. And so I know that when

755
00:26:24,250 --> 00:26:26,750
he has his and I know different seizures,

756
00:26:26,809 --> 00:26:29,049
you know, are different. They they you react

757
00:26:29,049 --> 00:26:31,289
differently or have different effects. But when he

758
00:26:31,289 --> 00:26:33,130
has them, you know, he checks out for

759
00:26:33,130 --> 00:26:35,325
however long and then comes back, and he

760
00:26:35,325 --> 00:26:38,065
gets a really bad migraine, bad headache. He's

761
00:26:38,684 --> 00:26:40,605
unaware of what's going on around him. There's

762
00:26:40,605 --> 00:26:43,404
that missing time, and he's depleted for a

763
00:26:43,404 --> 00:26:45,484
while. Is that an experience that you've had,

764
00:26:45,484 --> 00:26:47,105
Ryan? And how does that

765
00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:48,890
compare to what we're talking about here with,

766
00:26:48,890 --> 00:26:50,250
you know, using your spoons for the day?

767
00:26:50,250 --> 00:26:51,549
I mean, if you have a seizure,

768
00:26:51,930 --> 00:26:53,609
you know, what does the rest of your

769
00:26:53,609 --> 00:26:55,069
day look like after that?

770
00:26:55,609 --> 00:26:57,789
If I have a good one, I'm basically

771
00:26:57,930 --> 00:26:58,430
spent.

772
00:26:59,529 --> 00:27:02,670
It I'm just tired and just want to

773
00:27:03,365 --> 00:27:04,424
either just sit,

774
00:27:04,965 --> 00:27:06,884
you know, in a chair or or in

775
00:27:06,884 --> 00:27:08,805
a lot of cases, just lay in bed.

776
00:27:08,805 --> 00:27:09,305
And

777
00:27:09,845 --> 00:27:10,825
then I'll eventually,

778
00:27:11,205 --> 00:27:13,365
you know, get enough energy to be up

779
00:27:13,365 --> 00:27:15,545
and around, but even then, I'm not, like,

780
00:27:15,924 --> 00:27:18,105
raring to go. I'm just kind of

781
00:27:18,910 --> 00:27:20,750
hanging out, and I'm like, alright. I'm just

782
00:27:20,750 --> 00:27:22,750
gonna chill out. And it usually takes a

783
00:27:22,750 --> 00:27:24,930
day, day and a half depending on

784
00:27:26,109 --> 00:27:28,190
how big the seizure is. If it's a

785
00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:28,930
little one,

786
00:27:29,309 --> 00:27:30,910
it might just be the rest of that

787
00:27:30,910 --> 00:27:32,609
day, and then I'm okay. But

788
00:27:32,965 --> 00:27:34,585
it really just kinda depends.

789
00:27:35,924 --> 00:27:37,285
That makes a lot of sense. And I

790
00:27:37,285 --> 00:27:38,904
had a feeling that's what it was,

791
00:27:39,525 --> 00:27:42,085
because, yeah, those can really wipe a person

792
00:27:42,085 --> 00:27:44,164
out. And so in addition to everything else

793
00:27:44,164 --> 00:27:45,684
you might have going on that day, if

794
00:27:45,684 --> 00:27:47,045
if you've had to do some reading with

795
00:27:47,045 --> 00:27:48,910
braille or, you know, listening to some other

796
00:27:48,910 --> 00:27:50,349
things or, you know, whatever else has been

797
00:27:50,349 --> 00:27:51,950
going on in your life. And then all

798
00:27:51,950 --> 00:27:53,150
of a sudden, a seizure comes on. It's

799
00:27:53,150 --> 00:27:54,609
like, alright. That's it. I'm

800
00:27:54,910 --> 00:27:57,470
done. Yeah. Pretty much. It's over. I'm I'm

801
00:27:57,470 --> 00:27:58,990
done. I'm a go over here and watch

802
00:27:58,990 --> 00:28:00,369
some football now. Bye bye.

803
00:28:00,910 --> 00:28:03,330
So no. That that makes sense.

804
00:28:04,095 --> 00:28:06,414
Now Charles, Ryan was talking about, you know,

805
00:28:06,414 --> 00:28:08,974
going to convention and, you know, hundreds or

806
00:28:08,974 --> 00:28:11,134
thousand other blind people and canes and dogs

807
00:28:11,134 --> 00:28:13,775
and chittering and chatting and, you know, screen

808
00:28:13,775 --> 00:28:15,474
readers probably going off everywhere.

809
00:28:16,174 --> 00:28:18,240
You know? And just all the the echoing

810
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:19,840
of a hotel and and all that kind

811
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,440
of stuff. Then you've got the exhibit halls

812
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,519
and say you're a presenter and you're, you

813
00:28:23,519 --> 00:28:25,119
know, you have to read from braille or

814
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,119
listen from a screen reader to give a

815
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:27,619
presentation

816
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,600
or just listening to one and trying to

817
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,360
take notes on a on a braille reader

818
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:33,384
or something like that, you know, interacting with

819
00:28:33,384 --> 00:28:35,565
people, trying to find different things,

820
00:28:36,184 --> 00:28:38,265
that's an extreme example. But, I mean, I'm

821
00:28:38,265 --> 00:28:39,484
sure it's similar

822
00:28:39,865 --> 00:28:41,384
to if we go to a restaurant or

823
00:28:41,384 --> 00:28:42,744
we go to a movie theater or we

824
00:28:42,744 --> 00:28:43,724
go to a concert.

825
00:28:44,505 --> 00:28:45,484
Those experiences

826
00:28:46,585 --> 00:28:47,085
for

827
00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:49,960
most anybody, but especially if you're somebody

828
00:28:50,259 --> 00:28:51,880
with low vision, no vision,

829
00:28:52,419 --> 00:28:55,059
the the extra kind of effort that it

830
00:28:55,059 --> 00:28:56,819
can take sometimes and then take out of

831
00:28:56,819 --> 00:28:57,319
us,

832
00:28:57,619 --> 00:28:59,140
I mean, there's a lot going on there

833
00:28:59,140 --> 00:28:59,960
in there, Charles?

834
00:29:00,875 --> 00:29:03,755
Yeah. There definitely can be. I while I

835
00:29:03,755 --> 00:29:06,394
was listening to Ryan, I was reminded of

836
00:29:06,394 --> 00:29:08,234
a moment when I was at one of

837
00:29:08,234 --> 00:29:10,575
the Orlando conventions for the NFB.

838
00:29:11,275 --> 00:29:11,755
And,

839
00:29:12,715 --> 00:29:14,015
I had my guide dog,

840
00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:17,059
and my guide dog and I kind of

841
00:29:17,059 --> 00:29:20,099
lost spoons at the same moment because there

842
00:29:20,099 --> 00:29:23,079
were just too many things happening.

843
00:29:23,460 --> 00:29:25,480
It's exactly what you were saying. There were

844
00:29:25,619 --> 00:29:28,339
canes everywhere. There were dogs. There were people.

845
00:29:28,339 --> 00:29:30,785
It was loud. There were, they call them

846
00:29:30,785 --> 00:29:32,464
talking signs, the people that you were talking

847
00:29:32,464 --> 00:29:34,484
about, Ryan. You know, Exhibit hall this way.

848
00:29:34,625 --> 00:29:36,724
There was that going on. It was so

849
00:29:37,025 --> 00:29:40,625
much. My dog was too overwhelmed by the

850
00:29:40,625 --> 00:29:41,125
unpredictability

851
00:29:41,505 --> 00:29:43,025
of all the blind people trying to figure

852
00:29:43,025 --> 00:29:45,285
their way around things. He had gotten

853
00:29:45,660 --> 00:29:47,660
tapped and smacked by a bunch of canes.

854
00:29:47,660 --> 00:29:50,059
He'd already gotten his leash tangled with another

855
00:29:50,059 --> 00:29:52,539
dog whose owner wasn't paying attention and got

856
00:29:52,539 --> 00:29:53,359
mad at us.

857
00:29:53,660 --> 00:29:54,799
It was a whole mess.

858
00:29:55,420 --> 00:29:57,359
And both of us just sort of

859
00:29:57,894 --> 00:29:59,575
slumped at the same moment, and we're like,

860
00:29:59,575 --> 00:30:01,674
we can't handle anymore.

861
00:30:02,375 --> 00:30:02,694
And,

862
00:30:03,575 --> 00:30:05,115
I had to actually

863
00:30:05,414 --> 00:30:06,714
leash guide him

864
00:30:07,255 --> 00:30:09,255
out of the super crowded area. He was

865
00:30:09,255 --> 00:30:11,399
done. He he couldn't work anymore. I didn't

866
00:30:11,399 --> 00:30:13,019
have a cane on me at the time,

867
00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:16,279
which was actually rare for me because usually

868
00:30:16,279 --> 00:30:17,799
when I travel, I do keep a spare

869
00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:19,960
cane on me at all times, but I

870
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,099
didn't have it then.

871
00:30:21,639 --> 00:30:23,845
And I had to leash guide him out

872
00:30:23,845 --> 00:30:26,164
of the crowd, and then he stepped back

873
00:30:26,164 --> 00:30:28,005
up into guide position and basically took us

874
00:30:28,005 --> 00:30:29,285
back to our room because he knew where

875
00:30:29,285 --> 00:30:30,404
it was. We've been there a couple of

876
00:30:30,404 --> 00:30:32,265
days at this point. But,

877
00:30:32,965 --> 00:30:34,345
I mean, you just sometimes

878
00:30:34,725 --> 00:30:37,545
don't know when you're going to get overwhelmed.

879
00:30:37,924 --> 00:30:38,400
And

880
00:30:39,119 --> 00:30:40,559
I am lucky enough to be able to

881
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:43,119
talk about spoon theory in the sense that

882
00:30:43,119 --> 00:30:45,440
when I run out of spoons, I still

883
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,599
have a little bit of base energy to

884
00:30:47,599 --> 00:30:49,140
deal with whatever happens.

885
00:30:49,519 --> 00:30:51,599
But for a lot of people, spoon theory

886
00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:52,820
is a very

887
00:30:53,204 --> 00:30:54,345
literal representation

888
00:30:54,724 --> 00:30:57,284
of how much energy you are you have

889
00:30:57,365 --> 00:30:59,224
you are working with or

890
00:30:59,605 --> 00:31:00,585
how much ability

891
00:31:00,964 --> 00:31:02,025
that your disability

892
00:31:02,484 --> 00:31:04,345
allows you to have in that moment.

893
00:31:04,964 --> 00:31:06,484
There are people, when they say they have

894
00:31:06,484 --> 00:31:08,325
no more spoons, they mean it. They have

895
00:31:08,325 --> 00:31:10,700
no more spoons. They cannot do anything except

896
00:31:10,700 --> 00:31:12,779
lay in bed because they hurt too much,

897
00:31:12,779 --> 00:31:13,919
because they're too tired,

898
00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:17,179
because their senses are going haywire, because they've

899
00:31:17,179 --> 00:31:17,919
had seizures.

900
00:31:19,179 --> 00:31:21,099
And so I wanna make sure that it's

901
00:31:21,099 --> 00:31:23,894
very clear to the listeners that I think

902
00:31:23,894 --> 00:31:25,734
for the three of us, when we say

903
00:31:25,734 --> 00:31:27,414
we have no more spoons, we might be

904
00:31:27,414 --> 00:31:28,934
able to do something small. We might be

905
00:31:28,934 --> 00:31:31,095
able to have a conversation or get up

906
00:31:31,095 --> 00:31:32,615
to go to the bathroom and go back

907
00:31:32,615 --> 00:31:34,775
to bed or something, but that's not always

908
00:31:34,775 --> 00:31:35,434
the case.

909
00:31:35,894 --> 00:31:36,134
So,

910
00:31:37,180 --> 00:31:38,859
before we move on, I just wanna make

911
00:31:38,859 --> 00:31:40,320
that very, very clear.

912
00:31:40,940 --> 00:31:42,400
Now to your point, Tim,

913
00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:43,759
there are situations,

914
00:31:44,059 --> 00:31:47,039
though, that I actually find kind of

915
00:31:47,340 --> 00:31:47,840
invigorating.

916
00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:50,375
I actually did go to a concert a

917
00:31:50,375 --> 00:31:52,455
couple of weeks ago, and I had a

918
00:31:52,455 --> 00:31:54,695
lot of fun. It was a rock concert.

919
00:31:54,695 --> 00:31:57,015
It was loud. It was crowded. There were

920
00:31:57,015 --> 00:31:58,634
flashing lights everywhere,

921
00:31:59,174 --> 00:32:01,674
and I loved it. I loved the whole

922
00:32:02,055 --> 00:32:03,894
four hour show or however long we were

923
00:32:03,894 --> 00:32:05,579
there. I don't remember. It was time was

924
00:32:05,579 --> 00:32:06,720
meaningless. Alright?

925
00:32:08,299 --> 00:32:10,140
And we had with us it was me

926
00:32:10,140 --> 00:32:11,980
and my girlfriend, and we had with us

927
00:32:11,980 --> 00:32:13,679
two of my other blind friends.

928
00:32:14,140 --> 00:32:14,640
And

929
00:32:15,099 --> 00:32:17,740
all four of us were in the upper

930
00:32:17,740 --> 00:32:19,359
level in our seats,

931
00:32:19,900 --> 00:32:20,400
and

932
00:32:21,575 --> 00:32:24,714
the two other blind people experienced the show

933
00:32:25,174 --> 00:32:27,115
similarly to I did.

934
00:32:27,414 --> 00:32:29,734
But what I noticed was on the way

935
00:32:29,734 --> 00:32:30,234
home,

936
00:32:30,535 --> 00:32:32,954
they were really tired, whereas I was energized.

937
00:32:33,015 --> 00:32:34,695
I wanted to do more. I kept telling

938
00:32:34,695 --> 00:32:36,134
my girlfriend, like, I would love to be

939
00:32:36,134 --> 00:32:37,730
down in the mosh pit right now.

940
00:32:38,109 --> 00:32:40,049
Like, we almost did, honestly.

941
00:32:40,829 --> 00:32:41,329
And

942
00:32:41,869 --> 00:32:43,890
for me, it's an interesting comparison

943
00:32:44,269 --> 00:32:46,349
to know that a lot of people might

944
00:32:46,349 --> 00:32:47,490
have found that overwhelming,

945
00:32:48,029 --> 00:32:49,250
but I did not.

946
00:32:49,869 --> 00:32:50,369
And

947
00:32:51,115 --> 00:32:53,355
I almost wouldn't have cared if I would

948
00:32:53,355 --> 00:32:57,034
have gotten auditorily overwhelmed or visually overwhelmed because

949
00:32:57,034 --> 00:32:59,194
I have enough sight to see the the

950
00:32:59,194 --> 00:33:00,954
laser lights and the flashing and the and

951
00:33:00,954 --> 00:33:02,394
the smoke machines and all that.

952
00:33:03,595 --> 00:33:04,815
And it's

953
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,799
it's different. Right? I I went there almost

954
00:33:07,799 --> 00:33:08,299
intentionally

955
00:33:08,839 --> 00:33:09,820
to be overwhelmed

956
00:33:10,279 --> 00:33:11,740
in in a weird way.

957
00:33:12,039 --> 00:33:12,539
And

958
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,359
I think it would have been a very

959
00:33:14,359 --> 00:33:17,080
different experience if I wouldn't have had a

960
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,619
sighted person with me,

961
00:33:19,184 --> 00:33:21,184
But I did, so I knew that I

962
00:33:21,184 --> 00:33:23,825
was sort of safe if it did wind

963
00:33:23,825 --> 00:33:25,904
up being too much. And so that enabled

964
00:33:25,904 --> 00:33:27,284
me to kinda let go

965
00:33:27,585 --> 00:33:29,024
a little bit more than maybe I would

966
00:33:29,024 --> 00:33:30,565
have if I were on my own.

967
00:33:31,309 --> 00:33:32,589
Yeah. It allows you to go into the

968
00:33:32,589 --> 00:33:34,910
experience a little bit more relaxed than maybe

969
00:33:34,910 --> 00:33:36,349
you otherwise would have if you had been

970
00:33:36,349 --> 00:33:38,669
just you and a couple blind people trying

971
00:33:38,669 --> 00:33:40,910
to navigate, like Ryan was talking about, you

972
00:33:40,910 --> 00:33:42,429
know, at an exhibit hall or at a

973
00:33:42,429 --> 00:33:42,929
convention

974
00:33:43,630 --> 00:33:46,529
where, you know, we're all playing, you know,

975
00:33:46,875 --> 00:33:49,055
stick swords, you know, cane swords, you know,

976
00:33:49,115 --> 00:33:51,055
like, oh, hello. Excuse me. Sorry.

977
00:33:51,515 --> 00:33:52,634
Oh, hello. You know?

978
00:33:53,035 --> 00:33:54,555
Played that game quite a lot where you

979
00:33:54,555 --> 00:33:56,315
you stumble upon other blind people. Oh, yeah.

980
00:33:56,315 --> 00:33:58,474
Exhibit halls are fun. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

981
00:33:58,474 --> 00:33:58,974
Yeah.

982
00:33:59,994 --> 00:34:01,674
But but that's a but that's a great

983
00:34:01,674 --> 00:34:02,819
point because, you you know, when I was

984
00:34:02,819 --> 00:34:04,819
talking earlier about the the fundraiser that I

985
00:34:04,819 --> 00:34:06,599
went to, we'll go back to that because

986
00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:08,820
the music was awesome. You know, the band

987
00:34:08,820 --> 00:34:09,639
that was playing,

988
00:34:10,579 --> 00:34:12,420
you know, they were very good. They were

989
00:34:12,420 --> 00:34:14,579
friends of the person that we're raising money

990
00:34:14,579 --> 00:34:15,940
for, and the band was great. They were

991
00:34:15,940 --> 00:34:17,954
playing some really great music. A lot of

992
00:34:17,954 --> 00:34:19,974
songs that I really, really love and enjoy.

993
00:34:20,195 --> 00:34:21,394
You know, they were covering a lot of,

994
00:34:21,394 --> 00:34:23,315
you know, classic rock songs and and eighties

995
00:34:23,315 --> 00:34:24,595
rock songs, stuff like that. So it was

996
00:34:24,595 --> 00:34:25,335
really cool,

997
00:34:26,515 --> 00:34:27,494
and I enjoyed

998
00:34:27,795 --> 00:34:28,775
what I could

999
00:34:29,155 --> 00:34:31,394
enjoy, if that makes sense. Like, for what

1000
00:34:31,394 --> 00:34:33,769
it was, I could enjoy it, but it

1001
00:34:33,769 --> 00:34:35,630
added to everything else.

1002
00:34:36,010 --> 00:34:38,570
You know, any everything else in in that

1003
00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:40,409
building, everything else that was going on around

1004
00:34:40,409 --> 00:34:40,909
me,

1005
00:34:41,530 --> 00:34:43,690
it was just that, you know, the pressure

1006
00:34:43,690 --> 00:34:45,630
cooker just blew. And

1007
00:34:46,010 --> 00:34:49,474
I think it can sometimes be the environment

1008
00:34:49,775 --> 00:34:50,275
itself

1009
00:34:50,655 --> 00:34:52,734
added to other things. But I've been to

1010
00:34:52,734 --> 00:34:54,974
concerts where I've had the same experience you

1011
00:34:54,974 --> 00:34:57,375
did, Charles, where I was invigorated, and I

1012
00:34:57,375 --> 00:34:59,295
was excited, and I had so much fun,

1013
00:34:59,295 --> 00:35:00,755
and I was screaming and yelling.

1014
00:35:01,260 --> 00:35:03,900
But the sound in my memory was totally

1015
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:05,760
different. You know, it's one thing to be

1016
00:35:06,219 --> 00:35:08,619
up in the stands. You know, the crowd's

1017
00:35:08,619 --> 00:35:10,159
all facing the same direction,

1018
00:35:10,619 --> 00:35:13,099
so they're not yelling around you. They're yelling

1019
00:35:13,099 --> 00:35:15,255
at the same direction you're yelling, you know,

1020
00:35:15,255 --> 00:35:18,295
away from you. The band isn't right up

1021
00:35:18,295 --> 00:35:20,214
on you and right in your ear next

1022
00:35:20,214 --> 00:35:21,494
to the speaker. I mean, you could be,

1023
00:35:21,494 --> 00:35:22,695
I guess, if you got those kind of

1024
00:35:22,695 --> 00:35:24,934
seats, but in my experiences, I don't usually

1025
00:35:24,934 --> 00:35:26,775
do that. So, you know, you don't have

1026
00:35:26,775 --> 00:35:27,275
that

1027
00:35:27,630 --> 00:35:30,190
full three sixty sound around you of of

1028
00:35:30,190 --> 00:35:30,849
an audience.

1029
00:35:31,630 --> 00:35:33,069
I mean, I guess, unless you're way down

1030
00:35:33,069 --> 00:35:34,589
to the front, you've got everybody behind you.

1031
00:35:34,589 --> 00:35:36,269
But you know what I mean? Like, the

1032
00:35:36,429 --> 00:35:38,029
some of the audience is still gonna be

1033
00:35:38,029 --> 00:35:40,029
in front of you, and and you've got

1034
00:35:40,029 --> 00:35:41,949
the the band there. And so I've had

1035
00:35:41,949 --> 00:35:44,054
that experience where I'd come out of it

1036
00:35:44,054 --> 00:35:45,974
going, oh my gosh. That was freaking awesome.

1037
00:35:45,974 --> 00:35:47,414
That was the best concert I've ever been

1038
00:35:47,414 --> 00:35:49,414
to. That was so great, and I'm so

1039
00:35:49,414 --> 00:35:51,815
energized. But then there's those other moments where

1040
00:35:51,815 --> 00:35:53,734
it's just like, nope. Uh-uh. There's too much

1041
00:35:53,734 --> 00:35:55,494
around me. You know, it sounds like it's

1042
00:35:55,494 --> 00:35:57,570
above me and around me and, you know,

1043
00:35:57,570 --> 00:35:58,789
penetrating everything

1044
00:35:59,250 --> 00:36:00,150
of my being,

1045
00:36:00,530 --> 00:36:02,610
and I just can't do it. I think

1046
00:36:02,610 --> 00:36:04,849
the other aspect of that is what you

1047
00:36:04,849 --> 00:36:07,329
bring into it. So if you're already coming

1048
00:36:07,329 --> 00:36:09,764
into it, having a bad day or a

1049
00:36:09,764 --> 00:36:12,105
bad couple days or you had a stressful

1050
00:36:12,565 --> 00:36:15,364
you know, something happened, an event happened before

1051
00:36:15,364 --> 00:36:17,444
you went and and participated in something like

1052
00:36:17,444 --> 00:36:19,625
that, you might have already depleted

1053
00:36:20,085 --> 00:36:22,324
said spoons for the day, you know, or

1054
00:36:22,324 --> 00:36:24,039
depleted half of them and you only have

1055
00:36:24,039 --> 00:36:25,960
so many left. And that that goes back

1056
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,780
to what the original, you know, Spoon Theory

1057
00:36:28,839 --> 00:36:30,300
blog was about was,

1058
00:36:30,839 --> 00:36:33,179
okay, I might go into something like that

1059
00:36:33,559 --> 00:36:36,164
having already depleted some of what I could

1060
00:36:36,164 --> 00:36:38,005
do for the day. And so I may

1061
00:36:38,005 --> 00:36:39,925
not have enough left. But if I go

1062
00:36:39,925 --> 00:36:41,445
to a concert or something where I really

1063
00:36:41,445 --> 00:36:42,885
haven't done anything else the rest of the

1064
00:36:42,885 --> 00:36:44,805
day beforehand, you know, I got up, I

1065
00:36:44,805 --> 00:36:46,965
I, you know, got cleaned up, got got,

1066
00:36:47,125 --> 00:36:48,940
you know, something to eat, just sat around

1067
00:36:48,940 --> 00:36:49,900
the house for a little bit, and then

1068
00:36:49,900 --> 00:36:51,500
just went straight to the concert and really

1069
00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:53,660
did nothing else. Well, then I might have

1070
00:36:53,660 --> 00:36:55,340
my full allotment for the day that I

1071
00:36:55,340 --> 00:36:57,680
could just spend at the concert and afterwards

1072
00:36:57,980 --> 00:37:00,539
still have something left. And so I think

1073
00:37:00,539 --> 00:37:02,960
that is something key to keep in mind.

1074
00:37:03,494 --> 00:37:06,375
Another analogy, I think it's obvious analogy, but,

1075
00:37:06,375 --> 00:37:08,135
you know, think of a gas tank or

1076
00:37:08,135 --> 00:37:10,295
think of a bucket or think of, you

1077
00:37:10,295 --> 00:37:11,815
know, anything that you can fill up that

1078
00:37:11,815 --> 00:37:13,815
can be depleted and, you know, there might

1079
00:37:13,815 --> 00:37:15,335
still be, as you were saying, Charles, you

1080
00:37:15,335 --> 00:37:17,019
know, if you're thinking like, you know, put

1081
00:37:17,019 --> 00:37:18,460
water in a bucket and you just keep

1082
00:37:18,460 --> 00:37:19,519
spooning out water,

1083
00:37:19,900 --> 00:37:22,220
you know, until you're done with your energy

1084
00:37:22,220 --> 00:37:24,140
for the day, there still might be that

1085
00:37:24,140 --> 00:37:26,059
little bit of, you know, water there at

1086
00:37:26,059 --> 00:37:28,460
the bottom, little droplets that are left that

1087
00:37:28,460 --> 00:37:30,539
you might still have just some to do

1088
00:37:30,539 --> 00:37:32,405
something with. But it may not be a

1089
00:37:32,405 --> 00:37:34,085
lot or it could be a lot. And

1090
00:37:34,085 --> 00:37:35,364
so I think that's why this is an

1091
00:37:35,364 --> 00:37:36,824
important conversation because

1092
00:37:37,605 --> 00:37:38,264
to visualize

1093
00:37:38,565 --> 00:37:41,304
or to to think through that process of

1094
00:37:41,764 --> 00:37:43,784
what can I do, what can't I do,

1095
00:37:44,180 --> 00:37:46,180
when can or can't I do it, you

1096
00:37:46,180 --> 00:37:47,800
know, how much do I have left?

1097
00:37:48,260 --> 00:37:50,840
It it will vary person to person,

1098
00:37:51,380 --> 00:37:52,680
experience to experience,

1099
00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:55,780
but we're all gonna be going through it

1100
00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:57,000
in one way or another.

1101
00:37:57,534 --> 00:37:59,375
Yeah. And you just touched on an aspect

1102
00:37:59,375 --> 00:38:02,014
of spoon theory we haven't talked about yet,

1103
00:38:02,014 --> 00:38:04,434
and that is the ability to

1104
00:38:05,295 --> 00:38:07,074
take a spoon from

1105
00:38:07,534 --> 00:38:09,235
a future day or

1106
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,039
prepare yourself so that you can have extra

1107
00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:14,139
spoons if you know that you need them.

1108
00:38:14,359 --> 00:38:16,840
Now, of course, that comes with a cost.

1109
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,639
If you, quote, unquote, take a spoon from

1110
00:38:19,639 --> 00:38:22,440
tomorrow, that's less spoons you have tomorrow. And

1111
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,284
it is totally possible if you do that

1112
00:38:24,284 --> 00:38:26,204
a couple of days in a row to

1113
00:38:26,204 --> 00:38:28,204
wake up and only have maybe two spoons,

1114
00:38:28,204 --> 00:38:29,885
and you're like, well, I guess this is

1115
00:38:29,885 --> 00:38:30,625
a rest day.

1116
00:38:31,085 --> 00:38:32,925
So you have to be careful with that.

1117
00:38:32,925 --> 00:38:34,525
And, again, it comes back to your personal

1118
00:38:34,525 --> 00:38:36,545
experiences and your personal abilities.

1119
00:38:37,085 --> 00:38:40,269
So some people are better able to prepare

1120
00:38:40,269 --> 00:38:41,650
spoons ahead of time.

1121
00:38:42,030 --> 00:38:43,089
You could maybe

1122
00:38:43,710 --> 00:38:44,210
intentionally

1123
00:38:44,589 --> 00:38:45,089
have

1124
00:38:45,789 --> 00:38:48,510
a slow weekend to prepare for a very

1125
00:38:48,510 --> 00:38:51,150
busy workday on Monday, for example, and you

1126
00:38:51,150 --> 00:38:51,809
may have

1127
00:38:52,224 --> 00:38:54,385
20 spoons where you may have only usually

1128
00:38:54,385 --> 00:38:56,324
had 10, especially on a Monday.

1129
00:38:56,704 --> 00:38:57,204
Or

1130
00:38:58,065 --> 00:38:58,565
maybe

1131
00:38:59,344 --> 00:38:59,844
your

1132
00:39:00,144 --> 00:39:02,085
Monday is supposed to be slow,

1133
00:39:03,105 --> 00:39:05,744
but it turns out to be incredibly busy

1134
00:39:05,744 --> 00:39:08,268
without any warning. You might borrow from Tuesday's

1135
00:39:08,268 --> 00:39:10,819
spoons because you can't adjust Monday's routine anymore.

1136
00:39:10,819 --> 00:39:13,369
You have to push through it. You're already

1137
00:39:13,369 --> 00:39:15,920
at work. You're committed. Right? But it may

1138
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,471
mean that you have to duck out of

1139
00:39:18,471 --> 00:39:21,021
a meeting or you have to not go

1140
00:39:21,021 --> 00:39:23,655
to that luncheon on Tuesday because Tuesday has

1141
00:39:23,655 --> 00:39:25,255
turned into a partial rest day because of

1142
00:39:25,255 --> 00:39:26,875
what you had to deal with on Monday.

1143
00:39:27,255 --> 00:39:29,094
Well, and I think to to kinda go

1144
00:39:29,094 --> 00:39:30,775
backward a little bit to where you guys

1145
00:39:30,775 --> 00:39:31,735
were talking about going to,

1146
00:39:33,335 --> 00:39:35,670
the concerts and stuff. I mean, like you

1147
00:39:35,670 --> 00:39:37,989
guys, I've been to, you know, all day

1148
00:39:37,989 --> 00:39:40,230
metal shows and stuff like that. And it's,

1149
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:42,170
you know, thousands of people and

1150
00:39:42,469 --> 00:39:45,030
five and six bands, and it's just really

1151
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:46,969
intense, you know, start to finish

1152
00:39:47,675 --> 00:39:50,795
and been perfectly fine. And, you know, walked

1153
00:39:50,795 --> 00:39:52,635
out like you, Charles, and going, dude, I

1154
00:39:52,635 --> 00:39:54,394
want more. And and why is it what

1155
00:39:54,394 --> 00:39:56,074
do you mean it's midnight already? What are

1156
00:39:56,074 --> 00:39:57,775
we doing? Yeah. And

1157
00:39:58,155 --> 00:40:01,295
I think you can do you kind of

1158
00:40:01,434 --> 00:40:02,655
can do that because

1159
00:40:03,420 --> 00:40:06,300
you're prepared for what's coming before you got

1160
00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:08,619
there. It's not that, surprise. You're right in

1161
00:40:08,619 --> 00:40:10,780
the middle of a metal show. You kinda

1162
00:40:10,940 --> 00:40:12,880
you knew what you were going to

1163
00:40:13,339 --> 00:40:14,639
when you went to it.

1164
00:40:15,099 --> 00:40:15,760
We did

1165
00:40:16,114 --> 00:40:19,635
intentionally prepare ourselves for that. Usually, my girlfriend

1166
00:40:19,635 --> 00:40:20,994
and I play D and D on Sunday

1167
00:40:20,994 --> 00:40:21,494
afternoons.

1168
00:40:21,795 --> 00:40:23,875
We canceled D and D. Well, I shouldn't

1169
00:40:23,875 --> 00:40:25,315
say we canceled. They played D and D

1170
00:40:25,315 --> 00:40:27,635
without us. They were perfectly fine. We didn't

1171
00:40:27,635 --> 00:40:29,920
go to D And D. We instead went

1172
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,840
to my friend's apartment and hung out for

1173
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,320
a couple of hours, ate some pizza, chilled,

1174
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,239
and then went to the concert. So we

1175
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,160
definitely did give ourselves that ability to not

1176
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,640
only did we not spend spoons that we

1177
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,885
usually would have, and so those got allocated

1178
00:40:44,945 --> 00:40:47,344
to the concert, but we gave ourselves to

1179
00:40:47,344 --> 00:40:50,065
accumulate a spoon or two more because we

1180
00:40:50,065 --> 00:40:51,765
gave ourselves some chill time beforehand.

1181
00:40:52,704 --> 00:40:54,224
Oh, yeah. I've done the same thing, you

1182
00:40:54,224 --> 00:40:56,005
know, knowing I'm gonna go to,

1183
00:40:56,409 --> 00:40:57,150
you know, whatever the

1184
00:40:57,690 --> 00:41:00,250
festival is or whatever. Drink plenty of water

1185
00:41:00,250 --> 00:41:01,469
before you go and

1186
00:41:01,769 --> 00:41:04,090
have, you know, not a huge meal, but

1187
00:41:04,090 --> 00:41:05,949
have maybe a meal with, like,

1188
00:41:06,409 --> 00:41:07,789
fruits and and

1189
00:41:08,570 --> 00:41:09,070
whatever

1190
00:41:09,369 --> 00:41:11,230
to just chill out and relax

1191
00:41:12,284 --> 00:41:14,125
and keep calm you know, everything kind of

1192
00:41:14,125 --> 00:41:15,804
calm and mellow it out before you get

1193
00:41:15,804 --> 00:41:18,204
there. And then just have that release when

1194
00:41:18,204 --> 00:41:19,804
you're there and you're like, man, this is

1195
00:41:19,804 --> 00:41:20,625
great and

1196
00:41:21,244 --> 00:41:24,144
and fantastic and and let's go again.

1197
00:41:24,819 --> 00:41:25,639
Yes. Exactly.

1198
00:41:25,940 --> 00:41:27,639
And there are some things where

1199
00:41:28,739 --> 00:41:29,400
I will

1200
00:41:30,179 --> 00:41:33,299
spend spoons to gain spoons, if that makes

1201
00:41:33,299 --> 00:41:33,799
sense.

1202
00:41:34,179 --> 00:41:36,420
Like, we're talking about hiking in a couple

1203
00:41:36,420 --> 00:41:37,719
of weeks, and

1204
00:41:38,355 --> 00:41:40,454
preparing for a hike as a blind person

1205
00:41:40,594 --> 00:41:42,914
is sometimes a little bit more involved than

1206
00:41:42,914 --> 00:41:43,414
just

1207
00:41:43,795 --> 00:41:45,715
pulling up to the trail and walking. Right?

1208
00:41:45,715 --> 00:41:47,974
We can't follow signs, for example.

1209
00:41:48,434 --> 00:41:49,894
So I need to learn

1210
00:41:50,319 --> 00:41:52,239
the shape of the trail ahead of time

1211
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:53,599
so that I have an idea of where

1212
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:55,219
we are when we're on the trail.

1213
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,199
I might need to make sure that I

1214
00:41:57,199 --> 00:41:59,519
have the right gear. But all of that

1215
00:41:59,519 --> 00:42:00,980
said, once I'm hiking,

1216
00:42:01,839 --> 00:42:04,364
I have spent spoons to prepare for the

1217
00:42:04,364 --> 00:42:06,445
hike. I have spent spoons to get to

1218
00:42:06,445 --> 00:42:09,644
the hike. I am spending spoons to hike

1219
00:42:09,644 --> 00:42:10,144
safely.

1220
00:42:10,844 --> 00:42:13,244
But it also gives me spoons because I'm

1221
00:42:13,244 --> 00:42:15,805
out in nature doing something that I really

1222
00:42:15,805 --> 00:42:16,305
enjoy

1223
00:42:17,099 --> 00:42:19,099
away from the city as much as I

1224
00:42:19,099 --> 00:42:19,840
can be.

1225
00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:20,800
And

1226
00:42:21,180 --> 00:42:23,180
I I get a couple of spoons doing

1227
00:42:23,180 --> 00:42:25,340
that. And so sometimes it's all about how

1228
00:42:25,340 --> 00:42:27,900
you invest your spoons too. Well, I wanna

1229
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:29,695
talk about that because preparation

1230
00:42:29,994 --> 00:42:31,934
in general for anyone who's

1231
00:42:32,394 --> 00:42:35,195
blind or visually impaired, and really for anybody,

1232
00:42:35,195 --> 00:42:36,655
but especially for us,

1233
00:42:37,114 --> 00:42:39,454
preparation is a big deal. Because if

1234
00:42:39,994 --> 00:42:41,755
you know ahead of time and you don't

1235
00:42:41,755 --> 00:42:43,195
always know ahead of time, of course. But

1236
00:42:43,195 --> 00:42:44,769
if you do know ahead of time you're

1237
00:42:44,769 --> 00:42:47,110
gonna be somewhere, you're going somewhere, or vacation

1238
00:42:47,170 --> 00:42:48,570
or a concert or whatever it might be,

1239
00:42:48,570 --> 00:42:50,309
you know, going hiking like you said, Charles.

1240
00:42:51,250 --> 00:42:54,210
We as blind people almost have to, not

1241
00:42:54,210 --> 00:42:55,910
all the time, but almost have to

1242
00:42:56,369 --> 00:42:57,590
plan and prepare.

1243
00:42:57,970 --> 00:43:00,094
And so it's a matter of, okay, how

1244
00:43:00,094 --> 00:43:01,694
am I getting from what point a to

1245
00:43:01,694 --> 00:43:02,815
point b? Am I gonna be able to

1246
00:43:02,815 --> 00:43:04,255
get a ride? Do I need to get

1247
00:43:04,255 --> 00:43:06,174
an Uber or a Lyft? Or do I

1248
00:43:06,174 --> 00:43:08,094
need to, you know is there a bus?

1249
00:43:08,094 --> 00:43:10,034
Is there a train? Is there a whatever,

1250
00:43:10,174 --> 00:43:11,940
you know, that I need to find out

1251
00:43:12,260 --> 00:43:14,359
how to do that? Is their app accessible,

1252
00:43:14,659 --> 00:43:16,339
or do I have their phone number programmed

1253
00:43:16,339 --> 00:43:18,280
to my contacts so I can call somebody,

1254
00:43:18,659 --> 00:43:20,260
you know, and get somebody on the phone

1255
00:43:20,260 --> 00:43:21,699
that can can help me if I need

1256
00:43:21,699 --> 00:43:24,579
some? You know, figuring out, okay, where's the

1257
00:43:24,579 --> 00:43:25,485
hotel and

1258
00:43:26,364 --> 00:43:28,925
what are the restaurants around that? And, okay,

1259
00:43:28,925 --> 00:43:30,605
when we leave to go from there, I

1260
00:43:30,605 --> 00:43:32,125
I need to know how to get to

1261
00:43:32,125 --> 00:43:34,465
here. You know, all those kinds of things

1262
00:43:35,405 --> 00:43:36,765
that a lot of people might take for

1263
00:43:36,765 --> 00:43:37,265
granted.

1264
00:43:37,565 --> 00:43:39,010
You know? And, again, I'm not saying that

1265
00:43:39,010 --> 00:43:41,650
people without a disability or that aren't blind

1266
00:43:41,650 --> 00:43:43,349
don't deal with these kind of things, but

1267
00:43:43,809 --> 00:43:45,809
we almost like I said, we almost have

1268
00:43:45,809 --> 00:43:48,369
to. And that can be depleting all in

1269
00:43:48,369 --> 00:43:49,730
of it, you know, in and of itself

1270
00:43:49,730 --> 00:43:50,230
because

1271
00:43:50,824 --> 00:43:54,204
you're getting yourself mentally prepared, emotionally prepared

1272
00:43:54,904 --> 00:43:56,904
to do all these things. But then once

1273
00:43:56,904 --> 00:43:58,984
you do them, it could be relaxing, could

1274
00:43:58,984 --> 00:44:01,065
be stressful. Does you know, it could go

1275
00:44:01,065 --> 00:44:03,304
either way. For example, we've got a a

1276
00:44:03,304 --> 00:44:05,085
vacation coming up here, and

1277
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,500
part of that vacation, we're gonna be,

1278
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,960
in Orlando. And so we've talked about a

1279
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,119
Saturday, we're gonna be at Disney Springs where

1280
00:44:14,119 --> 00:44:16,280
all the shopping and, you know, restaurants and

1281
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:17,824
all that kind of stuff are. And that's

1282
00:44:17,824 --> 00:44:19,184
gonna be a lot of walking and a

1283
00:44:19,184 --> 00:44:21,184
lot of just, you know, going in and

1284
00:44:21,184 --> 00:44:23,025
out of stores and all the different kind

1285
00:44:23,025 --> 00:44:24,944
of things that go along with that. And

1286
00:44:24,944 --> 00:44:27,284
so Sunday, the next day, we've already planned

1287
00:44:27,505 --> 00:44:29,824
that's a rest day because I know it's

1288
00:44:29,824 --> 00:44:32,724
gonna be overwhelming for me just sensory overload.

1289
00:44:32,989 --> 00:44:34,909
For my wife with her nerve issues and

1290
00:44:34,909 --> 00:44:36,769
and back and knee issues and things,

1291
00:44:37,230 --> 00:44:39,309
she's definitely gonna need a rest day. And

1292
00:44:39,309 --> 00:44:41,389
so that Sunday is gonna be at the

1293
00:44:41,389 --> 00:44:43,949
hotel by the pool. We might go out

1294
00:44:43,949 --> 00:44:45,389
to dinner, or if there's a restaurant at

1295
00:44:45,389 --> 00:44:46,829
the hotel, we might just stay there and

1296
00:44:46,829 --> 00:44:48,494
go, you know, go to the restaurant there,

1297
00:44:48,575 --> 00:44:49,775
or, you know, just stay close to the

1298
00:44:49,775 --> 00:44:52,735
hotel, basically. And then the following day, we're

1299
00:44:52,735 --> 00:44:54,414
gonna go out. And as of right now,

1300
00:44:54,414 --> 00:44:56,335
we're talking about going to SeaWorld. And we

1301
00:44:56,335 --> 00:44:58,894
know that's gonna be, again, walking and and

1302
00:44:58,894 --> 00:45:00,434
all kinds of overload.

1303
00:45:00,735 --> 00:45:02,115
But that day between,

1304
00:45:02,710 --> 00:45:04,230
we've already had to plan that and say,

1305
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:06,070
okay. Does the hotel have a a pool?

1306
00:45:06,070 --> 00:45:08,410
Yes. Great. You know, what are the restaurants

1307
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:10,710
around the hotel, or is there one there?

1308
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:12,469
And, you know, what what else could we

1309
00:45:12,469 --> 00:45:14,730
be doing that could just be low energy

1310
00:45:14,789 --> 00:45:17,190
or or easy on us that we're we're

1311
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:20,094
not expounding more energy and using up those

1312
00:45:20,094 --> 00:45:21,954
spoons, you know, as it were. So

1313
00:45:22,894 --> 00:45:24,734
it you you have to look at that

1314
00:45:24,734 --> 00:45:26,594
kind of thing. And and even the preparation

1315
00:45:26,894 --> 00:45:27,394
itself

1316
00:45:27,934 --> 00:45:30,014
can be stressful and and use a couple

1317
00:45:30,014 --> 00:45:31,660
spoons. But like you said, Charles,

1318
00:45:32,039 --> 00:45:34,140
you might use a couple spoons in preparing

1319
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,700
for something, but then once you get there,

1320
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,059
you can get reinvigorated

1321
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:39,640
and you can get rest. And if you

1322
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:40,780
plan rest days,

1323
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,579
that definitely helps get through,

1324
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,635
you know, the depletion of of the other

1325
00:45:45,635 --> 00:45:48,594
things you're doing. Yeah, Tim. And it is

1326
00:45:48,594 --> 00:45:49,094
really

1327
00:45:49,554 --> 00:45:52,355
that investment mindset. You know, they they always

1328
00:45:52,355 --> 00:45:54,215
say you gotta spend money to make money.

1329
00:45:54,275 --> 00:45:57,074
Sometimes you gotta spend some spoons to make

1330
00:45:57,074 --> 00:45:57,574
spoons,

1331
00:45:57,954 --> 00:45:58,454
and

1332
00:45:59,039 --> 00:46:01,940
that might be something as simple as

1333
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,260
spending some spoons to go to a bookstore

1334
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,039
to find a new book to read. Right?

1335
00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:08,559
You know that's going to be a tool

1336
00:46:08,559 --> 00:46:10,559
that you can use later on a rest

1337
00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:11,539
day or,

1338
00:46:12,094 --> 00:46:14,255
on a day that you didn't expect to

1339
00:46:14,255 --> 00:46:15,614
be a rest day. You pull out a

1340
00:46:15,614 --> 00:46:16,275
new book.

1341
00:46:16,574 --> 00:46:18,414
And for a lot of people, that's a

1342
00:46:18,414 --> 00:46:19,154
good investment.

1343
00:46:19,534 --> 00:46:22,674
Whatever it is that helps you

1344
00:46:23,934 --> 00:46:24,434
get

1345
00:46:24,974 --> 00:46:27,154
more energy, that helps you

1346
00:46:27,989 --> 00:46:28,489
find

1347
00:46:29,269 --> 00:46:30,650
the the resources

1348
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:34,150
to continue to accomplish what you need to

1349
00:46:34,150 --> 00:46:34,650
accomplish

1350
00:46:35,269 --> 00:46:37,750
is a good investment, not just in that

1351
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:39,429
energy, but also in your mental health and

1352
00:46:39,429 --> 00:46:41,635
your physical well-being. I mean, you know, bettering

1353
00:46:41,635 --> 00:46:43,555
one aspect of your health betters every aspect

1354
00:46:43,555 --> 00:46:45,394
of your health. So it's it's something that

1355
00:46:45,394 --> 00:46:48,055
everybody develops their own strategies for,

1356
00:46:48,434 --> 00:46:48,934
and

1357
00:46:49,954 --> 00:46:51,875
it it does vary from person to person.

1358
00:46:51,875 --> 00:46:53,394
The book example is a good one for

1359
00:46:53,394 --> 00:46:55,110
me, but I know plenty of people who

1360
00:46:55,269 --> 00:46:58,010
don't enjoy reading hard copy braille. I mean,

1361
00:46:58,150 --> 00:46:59,989
procuring hard copy braille is not as simple

1362
00:46:59,989 --> 00:47:01,530
as going to the bookstore. But

1363
00:47:02,230 --> 00:47:04,789
oh, I wish it were. Anyway but it,

1364
00:47:05,110 --> 00:47:06,630
you know, other people, it might be video

1365
00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:08,070
games, or it might be music, or it

1366
00:47:08,070 --> 00:47:08,730
might be

1367
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:11,214
going on a walk. Some people are lucky

1368
00:47:11,214 --> 00:47:13,534
enough that they don't have a disability that

1369
00:47:13,534 --> 00:47:15,934
impairs them from walking, so people will go

1370
00:47:15,934 --> 00:47:17,214
on a walk around the block, and that

1371
00:47:17,214 --> 00:47:19,614
helps invigorate them. Right? So whatever it is

1372
00:47:19,614 --> 00:47:21,474
for you, everybody has these activities.

1373
00:47:22,255 --> 00:47:23,855
So before we wrap up here, guys, I

1374
00:47:23,855 --> 00:47:25,440
just want to get each of you to

1375
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,119
give you kind of your final thoughts and

1376
00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:30,000
and opinions and any other, you know, examples

1377
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:31,440
that you might have if you have any

1378
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,359
left that you wanna talk about as it

1379
00:47:33,359 --> 00:47:35,199
relates to, you know, the original idea of

1380
00:47:35,199 --> 00:47:37,139
spoon theory and how it relates to being

1381
00:47:37,199 --> 00:47:39,519
blind or visually impaired and and what we

1382
00:47:39,519 --> 00:47:41,945
go through. So, Ryan, we'll go ahead and

1383
00:47:41,945 --> 00:47:42,844
start with you.

1384
00:47:43,945 --> 00:47:46,905
I just think a very important thing to

1385
00:47:46,905 --> 00:47:49,164
recognize, and it's not always the easiest,

1386
00:47:49,704 --> 00:47:50,765
and it may be

1387
00:47:51,144 --> 00:47:52,905
just that you don't realize it. It could

1388
00:47:52,905 --> 00:47:54,989
be stubbornness. It could be all these different

1389
00:47:54,989 --> 00:47:56,449
reasons as to why

1390
00:47:56,910 --> 00:47:59,489
that you may have trouble admitting to yourself

1391
00:47:59,630 --> 00:48:01,170
or your family as

1392
00:48:01,630 --> 00:48:02,130
to,

1393
00:48:02,590 --> 00:48:03,890
look, I'm spent,

1394
00:48:04,269 --> 00:48:06,449
I'm tired. I I I need,

1395
00:48:07,364 --> 00:48:10,405
be it an afternoon or maybe a complete

1396
00:48:10,405 --> 00:48:10,905
day,

1397
00:48:11,605 --> 00:48:14,184
and recognize that and do it.

1398
00:48:14,485 --> 00:48:16,824
That you're better off in the long run

1399
00:48:16,965 --> 00:48:17,704
of taking

1400
00:48:18,164 --> 00:48:20,264
that afternoon or the day

1401
00:48:20,639 --> 00:48:22,500
to recoup because you haven't

1402
00:48:23,119 --> 00:48:24,739
ruined the rest of your

1403
00:48:25,279 --> 00:48:25,779
vacation

1404
00:48:26,159 --> 00:48:28,260
or whatever it is you're doing

1405
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,519
because you built in time, like, Tim, you

1406
00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:34,134
were talking about earlier, to relax by the

1407
00:48:34,134 --> 00:48:35,974
pool for the day and and have a

1408
00:48:35,974 --> 00:48:37,914
chill out day. You're still having fun

1409
00:48:38,534 --> 00:48:40,134
because you're at the pool and you're still

1410
00:48:40,134 --> 00:48:41,974
with the family and doing and doing that

1411
00:48:41,974 --> 00:48:42,474
thing,

1412
00:48:43,414 --> 00:48:43,914
but

1413
00:48:44,295 --> 00:48:46,394
you're recovering at the same time.

1414
00:48:47,130 --> 00:48:48,510
And it takes

1415
00:48:49,210 --> 00:48:50,989
some people a long time,

1416
00:48:51,609 --> 00:48:52,670
myself included,

1417
00:48:53,130 --> 00:48:55,929
to learn that to learn that, wow. Okay.

1418
00:48:55,929 --> 00:48:57,710
This is what's going on with me.

1419
00:48:58,010 --> 00:49:00,190
This is what I can do to

1420
00:49:00,835 --> 00:49:03,094
speed the recovery process up.

1421
00:49:03,394 --> 00:49:05,094
This is what I can do to

1422
00:49:05,795 --> 00:49:06,295
not

1423
00:49:06,835 --> 00:49:08,135
spend all my spoons

1424
00:49:08,994 --> 00:49:09,815
and can,

1425
00:49:10,515 --> 00:49:13,494
you know, recover that much faster and and

1426
00:49:13,875 --> 00:49:14,855
be good for,

1427
00:49:15,315 --> 00:49:16,135
however long.

1428
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,480
Yeah. I kinda wish I kinda wish we

1429
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,160
had a, self updating user manual that, like,

1430
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:23,920
teaches us these things as we move through

1431
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,760
life. And when we find better strategies, it

1432
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:26,739
just auto updates.

1433
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,140
I agree. That would be cool.

1434
00:49:30,215 --> 00:49:32,295
Everything that Ryan said. All of it. I

1435
00:49:32,295 --> 00:49:33,355
I agree with

1436
00:49:33,974 --> 00:49:36,554
I agree with Ryan a thousand percent. Everybody's

1437
00:49:36,614 --> 00:49:39,655
journey looks different. Everybody's recovery processes are different.

1438
00:49:39,655 --> 00:49:42,295
Everybody's allotment of spoons on any given day

1439
00:49:42,295 --> 00:49:43,034
is different.

1440
00:49:43,510 --> 00:49:46,470
Physical, mental, and emotional spoons, I believe, are

1441
00:49:46,470 --> 00:49:49,510
all separate but equally important categories to keep

1442
00:49:49,510 --> 00:49:50,170
track of.

1443
00:49:50,789 --> 00:49:51,289
And

1444
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:53,210
it doesn't really matter

1445
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:56,710
what number you assign to which activity. It

1446
00:49:56,710 --> 00:49:57,269
doesn't really

1447
00:49:57,829 --> 00:49:58,809
there's no,

1448
00:49:59,614 --> 00:50:00,114
like,

1449
00:50:00,494 --> 00:50:02,815
scale. Right? It's not a a specific unit

1450
00:50:02,815 --> 00:50:03,474
of measurement.

1451
00:50:03,934 --> 00:50:06,114
But if you are trying to explain

1452
00:50:06,414 --> 00:50:09,054
the challenges that you run into and the

1453
00:50:09,054 --> 00:50:11,454
toll that those challenges can take on you

1454
00:50:11,454 --> 00:50:13,474
to a loved one or a curious friend

1455
00:50:13,775 --> 00:50:14,835
or even a stranger,

1456
00:50:15,135 --> 00:50:16,599
this might be a really good tool for

1457
00:50:16,599 --> 00:50:17,340
you to use.

1458
00:50:18,119 --> 00:50:20,119
Absolutely. Well said by both of you. This

1459
00:50:20,119 --> 00:50:22,119
is why I I love having you guys

1460
00:50:22,119 --> 00:50:23,480
be a part of the show so much

1461
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,300
because you were so thoughtful and and passionate

1462
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,375
about these topics that we discussed. So thank

1463
00:50:28,375 --> 00:50:30,855
you both for, for opening up and and

1464
00:50:30,855 --> 00:50:32,614
talking about these things because it's not always

1465
00:50:32,614 --> 00:50:34,614
easy to talk about these kind of topics

1466
00:50:34,614 --> 00:50:36,875
and and and really diving into them because

1467
00:50:36,934 --> 00:50:38,634
sometimes these are things that people,

1468
00:50:39,389 --> 00:50:41,152
I'm not gonna say can't talk about, but

1469
00:50:41,152 --> 00:50:42,915
just have a hard time talking about and

1470
00:50:42,915 --> 00:50:44,678
opening up about and, you know, and saying,

1471
00:50:44,678 --> 00:50:46,441
hey, let's look at ourselves and look what

1472
00:50:46,441 --> 00:50:48,204
we have to go through and how we

1473
00:50:48,204 --> 00:50:49,967
handle that and how we get from point

1474
00:50:49,967 --> 00:50:51,951
a to point b and or do we

1475
00:50:51,951 --> 00:50:53,713
have to skip point b sometimes just to

1476
00:50:53,713 --> 00:50:56,054
get to point c? You know, it it

1477
00:50:56,054 --> 00:50:58,054
it it can be so difficult. And so

1478
00:50:58,054 --> 00:51:00,534
to talk about it openly and honestly and

1479
00:51:00,534 --> 00:51:02,375
being able to give personal examples, I think,

1480
00:51:02,375 --> 00:51:02,875
is

1481
00:51:03,175 --> 00:51:04,695
really, really important, but,

1482
00:51:05,175 --> 00:51:07,429
can also be very hard. So, again, thank

1483
00:51:07,429 --> 00:51:09,670
you both so much for, for, you know,

1484
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:11,449
being here with me and talking through

1485
00:51:11,750 --> 00:51:14,069
all these things. And to the audience, thank

1486
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:15,849
all I wanna thank all of you for

1487
00:51:16,150 --> 00:51:18,409
continuing to join us and supporting the podcast.

1488
00:51:19,029 --> 00:51:21,585
Again, if you have questions, comments, suggestions, anything

1489
00:51:21,585 --> 00:51:23,364
you wanna get in touch with us about,

1490
00:51:23,505 --> 00:51:25,824
if you have, suggestions for future episodes, things

1491
00:51:25,824 --> 00:51:27,824
you want us to to talk about, send

1492
00:51:27,824 --> 00:51:31,025
your emails to Tim@lifeafterblindness.com.

1493
00:51:31,025 --> 00:51:33,105
Don't forget to find us on social media

1494
00:51:33,105 --> 00:51:33,844
at Facebook,

1495
00:51:34,430 --> 00:51:36,030
at Labcast or just, you know, search for

1496
00:51:36,030 --> 00:51:38,349
Life After Your Blindness on Facebook and join

1497
00:51:38,349 --> 00:51:40,349
the group there and the page and join

1498
00:51:40,349 --> 00:51:42,450
that discussion or find us on Twitter

1499
00:51:42,829 --> 00:51:47,250
at Labcast. And again, the Patreon, patreon.com/labcast.

1500
00:51:47,630 --> 00:51:49,844
Once again, thank you, Charles. Thank you, Ryan.

1501
00:51:50,405 --> 00:51:52,324
And thanks again to all of you for

1502
00:51:52,324 --> 00:51:54,644
joining us. Join us again next time where

1503
00:51:54,644 --> 00:51:57,125
we continue our journey to find that there

1504
00:51:57,125 --> 00:51:58,905
truly can be a life after blindness.

1505
00:51:59,218 --> 00:51:59,958
Take care, everybody.